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COMMISSIONERS' COURT
Regular Session
Monday, July 13, 1998
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: ROBERT A. DENSON, County Judge
H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
T. H. "BUTCH" LACKEY, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
F~ieoaa"oayolAD.19~$
BIWEG.M EKE
erk County~-~-~~ Kerr County, Terms
6 ~~i--" nom. ~y

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I N D E X
Informational item - Jim Brown, U.G.R.A.
Pay Bills
Budget Amendments
Read 6 Approve Minutes
Approve & Accept Monthly Reports
2.1 Request County to Pave Ridge Crest Drive
2.2 Minor Replat - Lot 3, Vista Verde Addition
2.3 Variance - 9.51 Acres, Doris Drive
2.6 * Public Hearing - Regulatory Signs
2.10 * Interlocal Agreement - Animal Control
2.4 Road District - Spring Creek Ranch
2.5 Realignment - Road & Bridge Crew
2.7 Interlocal Agreement - Hidalgo County
2.8 Appoint Election Judges ~ Alternates
2.9 Change County Clerk's Term of Office
2.11 Interlocal Co-Op - Employee Health Insurance
2.12 Surn Ban
2.19 * Proposal from Voelkel Engineering - AutoCAD
2.13 Proposed Alternate Demolition Procedures
2.15 Costing Consultant - Phase 3 Renovations
2.16 Design Development Documents - Phase 3
2.17 Employee Evaluations - Commissioners' Court
2.18 Donation of Birdhouse
Executive Session - Action Taken
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On, Monday, July 13, 1998, at 9:00 a.m., a regular
session of Commissioners' Court was held in the
Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville,
Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE DENSON: Good morning. It's 9 o'clock, July
the 13th, 1998. We have our regular Commissioners' Court
meeting for the month of July coming up. But is as is
customary with the Court, we have a few matters to tend to
before we get down to the business at hand, and that would be
pledge of allegiance and invocation. Today the invocation is
taken care of by Commissioner Lackey, and if you'll all
please stand.
(Invocation and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, thank you very much. Before
we get started with the agenda, we have, I think, a very
timely and a very important public issue that Mr. Jim Brown,
General Manager of U.G.R.A., would like to address the Court
an. Jim?
MR. BROWN: Thank you, Judge, and members of the
Court. For the record, my name is Jim T. Brown. I'm General
Manager of the Upper Guadalupe River Authority. We are also
the contract managers for the Headwaters Underground Water
Conservation District. Around late Tuesday afternoon of last
week, we started receiving phone calls from our citizens out
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in the rural communities regarding their water wells. A
little -- let me back up. A little predicate to that, the --
the June ground water report from U.G.R.A. to the Headwaters
indicates that well levels throughout the county are the
lowest, with the exception of two out of the 26 test wells,
than they have been since we've been keeping the records in
1990.
We suspect that what may have happened is that while we
may have had some recharge benefit from the rains we've
received since 1996, it's probably not significant enough to
recharge the -- the Cow Creek or the middle-Trinity, part of
the Trinity aquifer system. The -- the folks are telling us
that -- some of them are telling us that they're drawing air,
but the majority of them are telling us they're drawing mud
and sand in their wells, which means they cannot lower their
pumps significantly without going into major reconstruction
of the wells.
The response that we're getting -- and by the way, out
of the 12 calls that we've received since Thursday, when we
started charting this, two of them are private water
companies. One of them was able to, I believe, connect into
an an adjacent private water company, and I believe they were
able to secure a limited amount of water. But the other
wells are -- the other 10 wells are private wells, and they
tend to be located along Goat Creek Road and back a little
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bit north and east of Ingram. Late Friday afternoon we
started getting calls from out in the south and the southeast
part of the county. We determined that most of these wells
are in the Trinity system and not the Edwards, and we suspect
that the reason the Edwards is somewhat healthy is that, you
know, we received a little over 2 1/2, 3 inches, up to 9
inches of rain last month back out in around the Divide and
some of that area, and we assume that we had a beneficial
recharge from that rain.
The issue that I come to the Court this morning on is
that we've got some folks who are calling us and asking where
they can come with barrels to fill up water to operate their
households. Thursday afternoon, I called the City and spoke
with the City Manager about the possibility of establishing
an emergency water distribution point somewhere in the city.
The City Manager indicated that -- that he understood the
concern, but he indicated that he would have to check into
their policy regarding the sale of water outside of the city
of Kerrville. So while that's in research, we have no place
to refer these folks who are calling in.
Now, some of the private water companies operating in
the county have indicated that they would be willing to
supply some limited amount of water to some of these folks
who need water. I come to you this morning hoping that we
have exhausted -- or at least all the issues have been
5
	exhausted, but I'm afraid that may not be the case. What
r~'~	
~J i	U.G.R.A. would like to do -- and I can't speak for
2	Headwaters, but I'm sure that they would agree with me on
3	this -- is that we need to set up a point somewhere where
a	folks who live in rural Kerr County can come with barrels of
5	water to -- to at least get water for their domestic animals
5	and their household needs.
~	This may be -- this may go into a more complex issue if
a	this continues, and we may need to -- to move this matter on
e	into the Governor's emergency -- Office of Emergency
~o	Management. But we do feel that we have a crisis out in our
>>	rural areas, and right now we have absolutely no point of
12	reference to give to those folks who are calling in looking
13	for water. I come to you this morning and asking the Court
~,	
14	to be thinking about how we can help our folks if the -- if
is	this drought continues and we continue to lose wells out
ig	there. I don't think there's an emergency this morning. I
i~	don't think there's a crisis this morning. But I'd like fox
1e	us to be thinking toward those lines before it reaches that
i9	-- that situation, and at that point we'd be able to address
20	the issues. That's -- Judge, that's it. I don't have a plan
2~	this morning; I lust want to get this out so we can all be
22	thinking about how to do it.
23	COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there any wells on -- large
2a	enough wells on County property where we -- I mean, the
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	County owns the well?
	
L J ~	MR. BROWN: I'm not familiar with -- I'm not
2	familiar with that.
3	COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think -- the only one
a	that comes to my mind is the one that was drilled recently at
5	the Little League field on County property, Little League as
s	well. But it's a well that has probably the capacity, but
7	it's not a licensed well. It's just used for irrigation
e	purposes.
9	MR. BROWN: And we may have an issue there of -- of
~~	using untreated water.
~~	COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, you couldn't. I mean --
i2	MR. BROWN: For public consumption. I know in the
~ 13	past, we have -- in other places, we've set up places, like
is	in the City Public Works yards -- we did this in Eagle Pass,
~5	Maverick County, set up some distribution points in their
is	Road and Bridge operations, where you normally would be
	filling up your water trucks to -- to work your roads. That
18	sometimes works. Now, we -- you know, we use a lot of water
i9	out of the creeks here; you have a construction immersion
20	permit. So I don't know what's out there; I don't know
2i	what's available. But -- but I think we probably need to
22	shift out of neutral and get over into gear on this issue
23	before it -- before we --
2a	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have City water at the Ag
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Barn.
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JUDGE DENSON: That's the first thing that came to
~ my mind also.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's treated water and we --
you know, the County is responsible for paying the water
bill. And I don't know why that couldn't be for emergency
use. I mean, an emergency is an emergency. If somebody
needs a drink of water, you let them have it. We can figure
out some rate to charge so that we'd be reimbursed for
whatever water was used.
MR. BROWN: A gentlemen called and had a
2,000-gallon tank out on his ranch, and he said he'd be
willing to buy the water and pay someone to haul it to him,
but he -- he said he was running out of water, did not have
enough water to get through the past weekend. And I don't
know where he went, but we referred him to some people down
in Seguin -- I mean into Boerne who haul water down there.
JUDGE DENSON: I know that just, for example, out
in my neck of the woods, out in west Kerr county, this has
happened in the past, or there's been emergency occasions
where someone ran out of water, and the Hunt Volunteer Fire
Department, who many times will pull water out of the river
or wherevez's available when they're firefighting, filled up
some of their water trucks and took it to someone's home.
That may be another avenue of relief. Of course, you're
8

	talking about untreated water there, but for domestic animals
	
~_~ 1	and such as that, it would work. That may be something to
2	consider where everyone could call their respective local
s	volunteer fire department and maybe have some relief there.
a	But we'll explore that. I think maybe the Ag Barn might be a
s	-- one solution.
s	MR. BROWN: Well, U.G.R.A. is willing to roll its
7	sleeves up and get in this matter with you, so whatever we
e	can do to help, let us know.
s	JUDGE DENSON: Well, thank you.
~~	MR. BROWN: Thank you.
~~	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jim, I wouldn't hesitate a
i2	moment contacting the Governor's office; I think that we need
13	to plug in. Even if we feel like it's a little early, it's
is	really not for this kind of stuff. They need to know where
is	we are in this for later reasons.
is	MR. BROWN: Commissioner, you're right. The trip
t~	from the cup to the lip sometimes, in governmental policy, is
is	a lengthy one.
i9	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is.
20	MR. BROWN: Thank you.
21	JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Sack to the business at-hand.
22	We have some bills to pay.
23	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I'll be as brief
2a	as possible. There is a Road and Bridge question on page 16.
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	Are we there? Item 91711, Invoice No. 91711, Schwarz
	
L ~ ~	Construction, for 59,600. I thought that we had made a deal
2	with somebody to do that work at Riverside Park below the Ag
s	Barn. Is that what this is?
a	MR. TOMLIN30N: That's what it is.
5	COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we decided not to, as I
5	recall. It was going to be tried out, but we authorized --
~	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $3,000.
	MR. ODOM: You authorized $3,000 for a dozer, and
9	then you had volunteers on the thing, and then my
~~	understanding was that an individual was going to do it,
~~	Bruce, and I was told that we were --
12	COMMI3SIONER OEHLER: He was
going to help with it.
~„ 13	Ya'all were to get the road base pushed up, and he was to do
is	the actual blade work, and in the meantime, he got picked up
15	again and was unable to do it. But there was no contact made
is	to me or anybody else that I know of what exactly was going
17	on down there. We even, I think, told Truby last meeting
is	that there must have been a misunderstanding, that you
i9	thought I was going to qet somebody, and I told '
ya all I
20	would not be involved in that.
2i	MR. ODOM: I can tell you that when I left this
22	room, that I thought that you you were going to take care of
23	it. That's what the 53,000 was --
2a	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
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MR. ODOM: And then I talked to Mz. Letz and he
told me that I was low bid on the thing and showed me what he
wanted done. I told him I couldn't do it, but I'd see what
-- it didn't change any more than the two weeks prior to
that, that we were already committed into the project. So
I'm about two weeks short of that, so I got a contractor to
come in there to do what we needed to do, push up the
material and fix the roads and do what John told me that they
wanted done, and that's what I did.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We went through and -- you
know, you've seen what was done out there. And the -- I
think the direction from the Court to Road and Bridge was to
find the money to do it in their budget. There wouldn't be
additional money added to the budget; they'd have to find the
money internally somewhere.
MR. ODOM: That's what I did.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my question was, I --
I see Schwarz' name and I know that that wasn't the name that
we were dealing with initially, so I got lost. That's --
let's take a deep breath here and go on.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. No guns drawn?
COMMI3320NER BALDWIN: No guns drawn at this point.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not at this time.
MR. ODOM: Sir, we just did what we were told to
do.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, we have a knife being
pulled. That's all right, we're on page 23 now. Tommy, this
district administration thing, it may be something that I'm
never, ever, going to understand, and it's probably because I
don't want to. I don't know. I can't get a handle on this
thing. But there's three bills here that, in my mind, I
can't get them to work with district administration, and
that's the last three there, 91930, -39, and -97.
MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- that's the use of some
State funds that -- that the State gives to law enforcement
for training, and it's strictly for training and it's monies
that -- that come from fees of -- of court. And we -- we put
those monies -- those funds in this fund to track where --
you know, to where it goes. I mean, to make sure that it's
for training.
', COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. That's all I
had, Judge.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Move we pay the bills.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: I have a question, and I'm not -- I
don't have my set of bills in front of me. There was a bill
that you and i were discussing, Commissioner Baldwin, that
relates to -- is it the jail or Sheriff's office, that
out-of-county?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, we just discussed it.
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	JUDGE DENSON: Oh, I thought you -- maybe I wasn't
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L ~ ~	listening.
2	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, it's --
3	JUDGE DENSON: You're talking about the district?
a	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's where that came
5	from.
6	JUDGE DENSON: That came out in administration.
~	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. We were looking
a	at the bills earlier, those particular bills. We were just
s	talking about the State funding, and it's -- we have some
~~	Kerr County employees down in Eagle Pass.
>>	JUDGE DENSON: Two deputies.
i2	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I was just trying to
~-. 13	see, without getting too nosy, where --
i4	MR. TOMLINSON: Seems like it's for -- for -- from
is	what I see here, it's for training expense.
is	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. It's State money.
17	MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
i8	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If this was Kerr County
is	money, I would not stop here; I wouldn't be real nice, is my
20	point. I'd want to know why are we spending our money in
2i	Eagle Pass. But I'm not asking that question, because it's
22	State money. I'm through with it.
23	JUDGE DENSON: Well, I'm not.
2a	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
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JUDGE DENSON: Does this relate to Judge Ables'
district, that --
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
JUDGE DENSON: -- administrative?
MR. TOMLINSON: No. What -- this is a zero balance
account except for these funds right here. The -- the State
funds. What this fund is for is that since Kerr County is
the most populous county in the 198th and the 216th district,
we pay the salaries of all the employees and benefits of all
the district officers.
JUDGE DENSON: Right.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. To make life a little
simpler for my office, I set up this fund to where, when --
when all the other eight counties reimburse us for those
costs, I put it in that account, in this fund, and then we
pay them one check out of this -- out out of this fund. It's
a clearing account, is what it is.
JUDGE DENSON: Right, I understand. It's
reimbursement for those other counties, their pro rata share.
MR. TOMLINSON: There's also -- we -- we get monies
from the City of Kerrville to pay deputies for the task
force. That money also goes in there. We -- we get
reimbursed for some salary for the admin -- for
Administrative Judge's Court coordinator. That comes from
the State. That money goes in there.
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JUDGE DENSON: But -- maybe I'm like Buster; I
can't quite grab ahold of this, the purpose, how it relates.
We have two deputies from our Sheriff's office, one of whom
is a dog-handler, and that's an exclusive job. And then the
other is a systems man out there, computer guy. They were in
training in Eagle Pass, and the expenses incurred were paid
for out of this fund?
MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. It's money -- it's
funds that --
JUDGE DENSON: What kind of training could they be
receiving down there that would justify being paid out of
this account?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's for training; that's
what the statute says, that we collect these -- we collect
fees in the court, and it's for law enforcement training.
The J. P.'s get it, the constables get it.
JUDGE DENSON: Any kind of law enforcement?
MR. TOMLINSON: Any kind of law enforcement.
JUDGE DENSON: That answers the question, thank
you. Okay, we've got a motion and second. Any further
questions or comments? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, budget amendments. Appears to
be a few of those. This is the season.
MR. TOMLINSON: This is the season.
15

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JUDGE DENSON: Number one?
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number one is for the
Commissioners' Court to transfer 51,858.92 from Contingency
line item to Professional Services.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So move.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Motion and second. Comments? All
in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Number two.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Two is for the County Clerk
to transfer $115.97 from Software Maintenance to Employee
Training, and I have a late bill that I need a hand check for
payable to Janett Pieper for $169.39.
JUDGE DENSON: Motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we do both of those in
one motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move.
MR. TOMLINSON: They're together; it's for that
purpose.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Got a motion and a second. Further
questions or comments? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Three?
16

	MR. TOMLINSON: Three is Non-departmental, and it's
	
L J ~	transferring 53,773.90: 51,130.75 into Workers Comp., and
2	$2,693.15 into Unemployment Insurance. It's to pay the last
3	quarter's premiums.
a	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So move.
5	JUDGE DENSON: Got a motion.
6	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
~	JUDGE DENSON: Further questions? All in favor?
e	(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.
9	JUDGE DENSON: All right, number four.
~o	MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number four is for the 198th
~~	and the 216th District Couzt. I have late bills that I need
i2	handchecks for. One is to Craig Leslie for $2,820.75, one to
13	Scott Monroe for 53,998, one to Greg Richards for 51,079, one
is	to Paula Richards for 5716.10, and Linton Tomlin for
is	52,650.50. The amendment is to transfer out of Surplus
is	59,889.75 into Court-appointed attorneys in the 198th
	District Court, 51,530 in the Court-appointed attorneys in
18	the 216th District Court, $716.10 out for transcripts for the
i9	216th District Court, and 5113.35 in court transcripts in the
20	198th district Court.
21	JUDGE DENSON: You have no choice. No matter how
22	--
23	COMMI3SIONER LETZ: So move.
2a	JUDGE DENSON: -- bad it tastes. Declare an
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emergency.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
JUDGE DENSON: And this will come out of Reserves.
We've got a motion.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: We've got a second by Commissioner
Lackey. Comments? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Number five?
MR. TOMLINSON: Number five, I put a copy on the
table for you to see. It's different than the one, I think,
that you have in -- it's the one that, the first time around,
we had the wrong number on, and --
JUDGE DENSON: it's 582.407
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: Out of Conferences into Part-Time.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: So move.
JUDGE DENSON: Got a motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Second. Comments? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Number six?
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Six is for Justice of the
Peace, Precinct 2, transfer of 563.83 out of Miscellaneous
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', into Part-Time Salary, and $5 out of Photocopy Supplies into
FICA expense.
JUDGE DENSON: We need a motion.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Motion.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So move.
JUDGE DENSON: Got a motion, and second?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question.
JUDGE DENSON: Certainly.
COMMI3SIONER LETZ: What part-time -- who's this
for on this is J.P. -- okay, never mind. I was thinking
constable. I was thinking, wait a minute.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Number seven?
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number seven is Courthouse
and Related Buildings, to transfer $515 out of Part-Time
Salary and 5985 from Insurance into Supplies for maintenance,
make it $1,000.
JUDGE DENSON: Is that --
MR. TOMLINSON: We have current expenses of
$753.13.
JUDGE DENSON: Is that just miscellaneous supplies?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: They finally bought the
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fertilizer I asked them to buy a year ago. Put it out now,
we don't have no water.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Did I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move.
JUDGE DENSON: Motion.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: I've got a second from Commissioner
Lackey. Comments? Questions? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Number eight?
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number eight is also for the
Courthouse Buildings. Transfer request is to transfer $300
from Conferences and Dues to their Telephone.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So move.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Motion and second. Comments?
Questions? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Number nine?
MR. TOMLINSON: Number nine is for Kerr County
Jail. I don't know where to start. There -- part of the
request is to increase Prisoner Meals for -- for the balance
of the year, transfer $11,000 from Group Insurance, $9,000
from Cooks' Salaries, 52,000 from Nurses' Salaries; that's a
total of $22,000.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that one, are the meals
costing a lot more? Because 1 know the jail occupancy isn't
that high, or hasn't been. So, I mean, what's causing the --
or do you know?
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't really have that
explanation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's your fault, you can
make sure of that. Actually, I think that we need to revisit
her budget as often as we possibly can so that she doesn't
underbudget this year again like she did last year. That's
obviously what this is. I mean, we don't have any more
prisoners. The cost of food has not gone up that much, so
it's obviously not a very good budget from last year.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, I don't know, specifically.
This is all conjecture, but these budgets, as we all know,
are made on historical data. Ner meals, likewise.
Prisoners' meals have been based on historical data. Why
there's such a great difference this year, it's got to be --
MR. TOMLINSON: We didn't have any prisoners from
out-of-county in '96-'97. I don't think we did. I don't
even think we had any contracts during that period.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have many in '98.
MR. TOMLINSON: But we had several at the beginning
21

	of the year.
	
L ~ ~	JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, at the beginning of the year.
2	MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
3	JUDGE DENSON: And there probably -- there is some
a	increase in actual food cost and all, I know that. It's just
s	-- it's a bad situation, but I think you hit the nail on the
s	head when you said we need to be very, very cautious this
~	year in what was -- the regular expenditure-type items that
a	were submitted and what we approve. We may have to increase
9	some things that aren't even being requested to be increased.
~~	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm saying, is
>>	let's mention -- even though she brings in a budget that's
12	obviously too low, in my opinion, that we need to make sure
13	that there is enough to provide throughout the year.
:a	COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't recall this item being
15	increased by this much, 'cause I think we would have talked
~s	about it.
i~	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $2,000 is what I remember.
i9	JUDGE DENSON: No. You know„ the other day when
i9	we were talking in here -- and I know there was an article in
20	the paper that said something like -- I think it was in
21	response to a question that you had asked about cutting the
z2	budget to the bone, which we never -- never cut any or even
23	suggested that any of her regular expenses be cut. It only
2a	dealt with the salaries and personnel. Likewise, with this
2s	
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year. And I know the Sheriff herself has asked for a raise
this year. Does this get plugged into your worksheets?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it does.
JUDGE DENSON: We'll just have to be real, real
careful with this budgeting on every line item so we don't
face the same dilemma next near.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, when you get through on
your worksheets -- I mean, I know that's on the printouts
that we looked at last year and the previous year. But,
like, on this one, I just don't recall us noticing that we
were this much out of money, this line item. I don't
remember that being a change. But can you go through and
make sure that we're not budgeting less in some of these
categories than we're spending this year?
~ MR. TOMLINSON: Well, yes, I do that. I do that
anyway.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It seems like $22,000 for
prisoners meals at this point, three-quarters of the way
through, is -- there's problem in there, major problem.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to make sure that we
budget the right amount next year.
JUDGE DENSON: But, on the other hand, I guess
there`s money in group insurance, cooks, nurses, that those
people -- those slots or these openings just were not filled.
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MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct.
JUDGE DEN3ON: And so, consequently, we have some
money available.
MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. I need a motion.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, did we do that whole
page?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We haven't done the top half
yet.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Also in this request,
there's a request for $8,000 to be transferred from the
Secretaries line item to Vehicle Repair and Maintenance.
That's -- that's actually for the Sheriff's Department.
Okay. That's 10-560-454. 3o that's actually not for jail,
the top one.
JUDGE DENSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The top ones are all Sheriff.
MR. TOMLINSON: The top two are just for the
Sheriff's office.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Now, the next four are for
the jail, and that's -- the request is to transfer $8,671.79
into Part-Time Salaries, 5500 into Uniform Expense, and 5500
into Trash Pickup Service. That's to come out of a total of
$9,671.79.
24

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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So move.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Motion and second. Further comments
or questions? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Number 10.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 10 is also for the
jail -- well, part of it is. The top four are for the jail.
Request to transfer $3,978.84; 52,863.50 into Maintenance
Contract, $74.93 in Prisoner Supplies, and $590.91 into
Prisoner Medical. I have Prisoner Medical -- I have current
bills of 51,225.71 --
JUDGE DENSON: Here, again -- and I know you're
simply sort of the messenger. We have -- that maintenance
contract's 52,863.50, which we're obviously short on. That
should be something that's easily determinable in the -- in
the budget. We should -- shouldn't we all know what kind of
maintenance contracts we have?
MR. TOMLINSON: This one -- this particular one is
for the recording system, Dictaphone. That's what it's for.
It's -- it's 53,051.
JUDGE DENSON: And what is that? Is that a renewal
or --
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, it's a -- right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it for?
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MR. TOMLINSON: It's for this recording --
recording system.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On phone calls that come in7
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Through dispatch?
MR. TOMLINSON: 911.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the system cost?
MR. TOMLINSON: It was, like, $30,000. It's a huge
thing, fills a good size closet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems like a pretty steep
maintenance contract, but most of those do.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When you're through being a
commissioner, you can go into the maintenance business.
MR. TOMLINSON: Along with this, I have a bill from
Acme Pharmacy. It's late, and it's for $1,225.71, that we're
requesting hand check for so we can pay it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
JUDGE DENSON: Got a motion. Need a second. I'll
second. Comments? Questions? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay.
JUDGE DENSON: Number 11?
MR. TOMLINSON: Number 11 is for the Sheriff's
Department. Further request is 52,370.56 to transfer from
Deputies' Salaries into the Telephone line item. And I have
!" ~~ 26
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-- I have in front of me 52,388.80 in bills that I only have
518.29 to pay for them, so here they are. The other one is
to transfer S1,200 from Capital Outlay into the Radio Tower
Expense. They have -- we're not -- like, when I talked with
them, they weren't sure if it was a lightning strike sometime
back that they didn't know about, but they do have a problem
with the tower, and this $1,200 is -- is to fix that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
JUDGE DENSON: Got a motion.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Got a second. Comments? All in
favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Number 12?
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 12 is from Juvenile Probation
to transfer 51,167.50 from Machine Repairs into Attorney Ad
Litem Fees.
JUDGE DENSON: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Comments? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Number 13?
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, 13 is between Environmental
Health and Rabies and Animal Control. Request is to transfer
5215.38 from Operating Expenses out of Environmental Health
27
	into the	Lease Copier line item in Rabies and Animal Control.
P..~		
L J 1		COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
2		COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
s		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third.
a		JUDGE DENSON: Got a motion and second by
5	Commissio	ner Lackey. Comments? All in favor?
6		(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
~		JUDGE DENSON: Number 197
e		MR. TOMLIN30N: Okay. This is -- Number 14 is for
s	the 216th	District Court Jury Fund. Transfer $175 out of
~o	Court Int	erpreters out of -- out of the 198th Court and into
~~	the 216th	Court.
12		JUDGE DENSON: Got a motion?
~.,, 13		COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Yes.
is		JUDGE DENSON: And, Commissioner Baldwin, you're
15	SeCOnd?	
is		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
		JUDGE DENSON: All right. Comments? All in favor?
18		(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
i9		JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
20		MR. TOMLINSON: Do you have a handout from the
21	Sheriff?	
22		COMMISSIONER LETZ: No.
23		MR. TOMLINSON: Just read it. It's to discuss
2a	approving	reallocation of Capital Outlay funds from a TLETS
25		
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terminal that was not purchased this year to cover the
i purchase of the cost of a microwave for the jail kitchen and
a paper shredder for Dispatch. And that's her request.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What did they not buy?
MR. TOMLIN30N: It was a terminal for TLET3 in the
jail that they didn't purchase.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: An item that we budgeted
last year that we've decided all of a sudden that we don't
need; is that what he's saying?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what he's saying. And
she wants to buy two other items.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second it.
JUDGE DENSON: Comments? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I have a late bill submitted
by Commissioner Oehler for fencing supplies for the fence at
the Ag Barn for $3,552.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 3o move.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DEN30N: Anybody want to see if he'll take a
little bit less?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was my cost; I didn't
even add any percentage to it.
~ ~~ 29
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: For those that don't know,
Bruce spent the better part of a week out there working every
day at no charge to the County building the fence around the
Riverside Drive, the Ag barn property. He ought to be
commended. He put in a lot of time out out there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. Thank you, Bruce.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're welcome.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Do I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To do what?
JUDGE DENSON: To pay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, I made that
motion.
JUDGE DENSON: What -- do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I'71 second.
JUDGE DENSON: And a second. Okay. All in favor?
(Judge Denson and Commissioners Baldwin, Lackey,
and Letz indicated affirmatively.)
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll abstain, being as it's
for me.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Let's see. We need to waive
reading and approve minutes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So move.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Motion and second over here on my
right. All in favor?
(The motion was carried by .unanimous. vote.)
30

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JUDGE DENSON: Approve monthly reports?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So move.
COMMISSIONER LET2: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Let's get into our
consideration agenda. First up is 2.1, Consider and discuss
request to get the County to pave Ridgecrest Drive. And this
is on the agenda at the request of various residents on
Ridgecrest Drive, and I think we have -- who's here?
MS. SMITH: Me.
JUDGE DENSON: And your name?
MS. SMITH: I'm Donna Smith.
JUDGE DENSON: Donna Smith.
MS. RODRIGUEZ: And Delores Rodriguez.
JUDGE DENSON: Delores Rodriquez. Okay. And
whoever wants to speak first, but if you'll please come up
here to the lectern.
MS. SMITH: Well, we're trying to get the road
paved because it's got lots of holes in it. And we went back
to the court records, and in 1982, when the subdivision was
platted, the Court put against the developer and the seller
of these properties -- the court order had to have the roads
brought up to the court standards, and they've never been
done. I mean, the roads have ankle- and knee-deep potholes
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in them; people are driving on the side. Our cars are
ruined. And we have done everything that we know to do.
I've been to every attorney in this town; they will not touch
it. I've been to San Antonio, and they want us all to
contribute; however, the people on that street don't have the
funds or are not capable of affording that type of an
attorney. We went to Texas Rural Legal Aid, and because we
own more than one lot -- each of us owns more than one lot,
they don't -- we don't qualify for Texas Rural Legal Aid. So
we don't own the street, but we need get to paved, and we
just don't know how to do that. I mean, we don't have
nowhere else to go. Do ya'all need any of this stuff, to see
any of this? I mean, we don't know what else -- we don't
know where else to go. Because the contracts say that we
don't own the road; that it's owned by the County. The
County doesn't want to do anything. The County -- Road and
Bridge won't do anything because he's supposed to bring it up
to standards. We don't -- I've called him; I don't know how
to make him do it. He's flat told me on the phone that's not
going to happen, so --
JUDGE DENSON: Well, let me make a clarification,
and I haven't seen any of the deed work or any of the
paperwork, but I doubt very seriously that the County owns --
MS. SMITH: It says in this contract right here, -
it's owned by the County.
32
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JUDGE DENSON: Leonard, can you speak to that?
MS. SMITH: Its says, Is responsible for all public
roads in this subdivision.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, now, there's a difference
between a public road and a County road.
MS. SMITH: Oh, okay.
JUDGE DENSON: A public road is just simply a road
that the the public has access to and that they can drive
over, as compared to a private road that's gated or
what-have-you. A County road is, in fact, a road that's not
only owned by the County, through either deed where they own
the land itself, or through easement, but also a road that
the County is responsible for maintaining.
MS. SMITH: Well, the County --
JUDGE DENSON: We'll get to a point here -- I just
wanted to set the stage on what's actually accurate. The
County has no responsibility at this time. The developer,
Lehmann and Monroe, or --
MS. SMITH: Actually, David Lehmann is the one on
all the paperwork.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No Monroe, strike the Monroe
name.
MS. SMITH: David Lehmann is the only one.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. He represented, I guess, to
the homeowners that this would eventually be taken over by
33

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the County?
MS. SMITH: Right.
JUDGE DENSON: And the County's rules that we go by
i is that certainly we'll accept the road for maintenance if it
meets our standards to begin with.
MS. SMITH: Right.
JUDGE DENSON: We will not take on inferior roads.
M3. SMITH: And that's what the Court order says,
is that it has to meet ya'all's standards. And what we -- I
guess we have a problem, is we don't know how to make him do
it. We can't afford the attorney's fees, we can't afford --
so I can't get someone out of San Antonio. Everybody up here
has a conflict of interest. So I was told by every -- I
mean, everyone in -- I've called everybody in town that Linda
Uecker's office gave us. We don't qualify for Texas Rural
Legal Aid, so are we just going to wait till the road totally
washes out? I mean, it's washed -- pretty much washed out
now. I mean, I don't know where else to go. I have no other
alternatives.
JUDGE DENSON: And I invited you here.
MS. SMITH: Right. I mean, I just don't know what
we can do to force this to get done. Someone -- he should
get it right so that you can -- can maintain it.
JUDGE DENSON: How -- how long is the road that
we're talking about?
39
MR. ODOM: Three-tenths, about 1,500, 1,700 feet,
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sir.
JUDGE DENSON: How many residents are on that road?
MR. ODOM: We're talking about one -- I'm sorry.
We're talking about the road that was in question, I guess,
was Shadow --
MS. SMITH: It's the Ridgecrest and Shadow Ridge
Estates.
MR. ODOM: One road that I'm talking about, Judge,
is three-tenths of a mile; that's one that I know that was
complained on.
JUDGE DENSON: Is that what we're --
MR. ODOM: There are three more.
M3. SMITH: There are three more.
MR. ODOM: Three more, and then there's one that's
partly completed, but it's never been cut in. So if we're
talking about the whole thing, I don't know offhand; I didn't
check them. Possibly maybe six-tenths of a mile,
seven-tenths.
MS. SMITH: It's mine -- our street is the very
first one that wasn't paved, and then there's a street next
to us and another one. In fact, looking at the County plat,
there's three streets; my street, plus two more streets that
were on this plat that are not touched, and they're all part
of the same -- same developer, same deal. I mean, we're all
35
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in the same mess.
JUDGE DENSON: Not paved?
MS. SMITH: Well -- what do you want to call it?
They're paved. They're not drivable, we'll put it that way.
MS. RODGIGUEZ: Yeah.
MS. SMITH: There's asphalt down. They've never
been repaired since 1982, since they were originally --
somebody put some asphalt down. They've never been repaired,
they've never been upgraded or done anything to. So,
therefore, they're pretty much washed out up there on top;
there's hardly any asphalt left.
JUDGE DENSGN: What precinct was this in?
MS. SMITH: Butch Lackey's.
JUDGE DENSGN: Do you have a plan?
COMMI3SIONER LACKEY: No. Without getting him to
bring it up to County standards, our hands are tied too.
JUDGE DENSON: You know, we face this type of
situation almost monthly. And most recently we had a lady in
here from down in the east end of the county, quite a bit
more road, and we worked out a deal with them where the
County would assist in the form of them making initial
payment and the County doing some work. It was sort of a
partnership arrangement where the County was doing some part
of it, and the homeowner -- the residents were doing part of
it as far as sharing costs. Would your group of residents be
%~ II 36
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interested in anything like that?
MS. SMITH: If they could afford it; that's the
only problem. I mean, these people -- except for myself,
everybody on the street is receiving some form of government
subsidies, they're getting something. So if they're getting
that, they don't have excess cash. Otherwise, I could have
gone and gotten an attorney in San Antonio. But there's no
excess funds here for them to do that. I don't know how much
they could put into it. I mean, they've tried -- we've tried
to get some -- one of the guys on the street is a contractor,
and he's tried to get us to put some money into a pot and
just -- he'll go out and patch the road. And people don't
have it, they just don't have an extra $50 to just put out
for that. And I certainly can't afford to pay it all by
myself, you know. I mean, I'd be willing to pay something
towards it, but I don't know about the other people on the
street, 'cause they don't have it.
JUDGE DENSGN: Well, again, by way of explanation
so you'll understand our situation that we're in, it's
illegal for us to spend money, County money, taxpayers'
money, the public's, on private matters. And what you have
there is a private situation, private road, as compared to a
County road. So we don't have any authority at all to spend
money on it. As homeowners, you have a certain duty -- when
you make a decision to buy a home, you should be
37
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well-informed; you should know what you're buying, and you
should beware of -- of hiddeh things that can come back to
haunt you later on. So the homeowners really are suffering
because they did not check closely or did not research
thoroughly enough to find out what could happen, and now
you're coming to us, and it puts us in a real serious
situation. We want to help.
M3. SMITH: Right.
JUDGE DENSON: But if you're not willing to
self-help --
MS. SMITH: I mean, these guys will get out and do
work themselves, if ya'all want, so somebody -- everybody
seems to help everybody else. We couldn't get a lady to to
mow her yard; we all went over and mowed her yard.
JUDGE DENSON: Does this make sense?
MS. SMITH: They could physically do labor, but
they don't have cash to put into it.
JUDGE DENSON: You just told me that your cars are
having problems because of the potholes?
MS. SMITH: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE DEN30N: You're having car repairs and such
as that. Why don't you take that money that you would have
spent on car repairs, and --
M3. SMITH: Because I think everybody there pays
for it as they go. I mean, they don't have excess cash
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sitting over here awaiting car repairs like everybody else
may have. I mean, it's not sitting over there waiting on it.
They don't have it. When their car breaks down, it may take
them a week to get it fixed. They have to shop
for that part through a salvage yard or whatever; they put it
on themselves. They don't pay for repairs like we go over
here and pay at the Shell station, you know, go over and have
it fixed right then. They can't afford that; that's not the
way they can handle their bills.
JUDGE DENSON: Leonard, have you been out on that
road?
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. On one road, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: On this -- this three-tenths of a
mile that you spoke of earlier, that seems to be the critical
part?
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: What is the condition? What would
we --
MR. ODOM: Dollar-wise?
JUDGE DEN30N: Could we do, like, some pothole
patching or something like that that could make the road --
MR. ODOM: We can do pothole patching. There's,
you know, some more to do it, and the road's oxidized. The
road is bad. And that can be done, but it's probably about
four loads of material, about 52,500 worth of patching and
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edging. If I just did patching, probably $1,000 to $1,500,
maybe 31,200. That's how much is there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There are some really big
potholes out there. We saw a 1968 Volkswagen bus coming out
of one there; it's been in there -- God knows how long.
MR. ODOM: Judge, I looked at -- I figured it up
Friday; I went out there and drove the area that I have at
different times, and I figure about 56,600 worth of material.
That's -- that's with seal coat, a double penetration on top
of patching, some edging, and some driveways. The problem
arises, like always: there is no drainage. But to get them
up and down the road, we could do some patching, if it was
declared an emergency-type situation. Then -- I'm tight on
the budget; you already know that. It's not a make-up, but
it's like the other day at the park. If that's what we have
to do, we'll just tighten our belt and we'll do it if the
Court directs us to patch.
JUDGE DENSON: Commissioner Lackey?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I think that we can declare
an emergency on it and let him go ahead and spend $1,000 for
material and patch it.
MR. ODOM: That would not put the road in great
condition. It will patch it to be traversable, but --
MS. SMITH: But we got to go somewhere from there,
because the patch only lasts so long; that's not solving the
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	problem. And what I don't understand -- I mean, I was under
	
~ ~ ~	the impression when I bought my property, even though I
2	wasn't the original buyer, that this -- that there was a plat
s	in order and that you all approved the plat, but how did we
a	get to this point? I mean, if the plat was approved, and at
5	the same time he was told it had to be brought up to
e	standards --
~	JUDGE DENSON: Before we accept the road.
e	M3. SMITH: Right. Then how was he allowed to sell
s	all those properties to people and not -- not be accountable
10	fox his actions? I mean, we didn't -- I mean, like I said, I
~~	don't know why these people were -- why we were all taken
i2	advantage of. I mean, I see a Court order, I see a plat. I
,~,,, 13	did my homework before I bought my property, assuming that
is	somewhere along the way we would have to get this done.
15	JUDGE DENSON: Well, the approval of -- approval of
~s	a plat and roads are two separate matters. Okay?
»	MR. ODOM: May I read -- may I address the Court,
18	then?
i9	JUDGE DENSON: Certainly.
2°	MR. ODOM: If -- if the ladies are through, I'll be
2~	more than happy to give you the court order and explain
22	what's there, and then also from Tom Pollard, which also
23	addresses somewhat of her question there, because having it
2a	on a deed doesn't necessarily mean -- anybody can file a
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deed.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, yes. Leonard, why don't you
come forward and please --
MS. SMITH: And none of these deeds were filed. I
went down there to get a copy of everybody's deeds, and
there's not one deed on file down there at the courthouse.
MR. ODOM: And I'm not -- and I hope the ladies
understand, I'm not trying to be definitive or to badger or
anything else, but for the education of the Court, basically
what we saw was there was a deed to a David Gould from a
David Lehmann. And in that, number one, it said the County
of Kerr, State of Texas, is responsible for all public roads
in this subdivision. That was a statement on the deed that
he sold this piece of property to. We qo back to the time of
Court Order 14873, and this is where the subdivision came in
at that time. It says, Approval of plat of Shadow Ridge
Estates on this 30th day of December, 1982. Upon motion made
by Commissioner Holland, second by Commissioner Lich, the
Court unanimously approved the plat of Shadow Ridge Estates,
located in Kerr County, Precinct Number 1, provided in so
doing that Kerr County does not accept maintenance of
roadways until residents shall develop -- shall justify said
maintenance and the roads are constructed, paved, drained,
impediments removed, and underground water and electrical
lines properly located. That was the Court order. Then we
92
	-- this came up about a year ago, or less than a year ago, I
I~1	
L_J ~	think, and then we asked Tom, Mr. Pollard, if he would give
2	us an opinion on this. Just because it was in a deed, we
3	didn't feel someone could go in -- you and I, Judge, could
a	come in and -- or I could, and file something over there that
5	the Court wouldn't know about and say that you're responsible
s	for it. That doesn't make -- until the Court has a Court
~	order to do that. Mr. Pollard -- lengthy letter, but
b	September the 9th, 1997, he says the Contract for Deed dated
s	July the 25th, 1998 (sic), to David Gould cannot bind Kerr
~~	County and make Kerr County responsible fox the maintenance
~~	of the roads in said subdivision. The contract's between the
i2	Seller and the Buyer only. If the Huyer's dissatisfied with
„ 13	any of the representations made by the Seller, then the Buyer
r	
is	should seek relief from the Seller if the statute of
15	limitations has not already barred any such claims. And
is	there are other stipulations that Tom goes through, but
i~	basically, it's just saying that just because you file that
is	deed does not make us responsible. The position of the
i9	Department is that we're not responsible for that. It's not
20	on any road list from 1986. I don't know what that
2i	development was, but there is a loophole there. And, of
22	course, the Department doesn't have any authority whatsoever
23	to add or to abandon property; that is the Court. And, you
2a	know, we're just sort of in a Catch 22, but the Department's
25	
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I I i.n i i
	stance is we're not responsible for that.
f~'`i	
L.J ~	COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got no problem with
2	Commissioner Lackey's proposal of putting up 51,000 to make
s	it drivable, but I think the residents need to understand
a	their recourse is going to be legal against the developer.
5	We cannot do anything until --
s	M3. SMITH: I would think the County would be able
~	to represent us somehow if we pay County taxes. I mean, if
a	financially these people were all not able to afford an
9	attorney, there should be some form of legal help for us. I
~o	mean, I've been everywhere I know to go, and I was turned
>>	down by every attorney. I offered to pay as much as I could
i2	for the filing fees out of my own pocket, and there was no
,^ 13	one in town that would touch it because of who it's against.
is	And, I mean, that -- to roe, that's lust like I'm in a Catch
15	22. I mean, where do I go? I mean, I don't have a place
is	else to go. And I pay County taxes, but I can't get the
i~	County to help me7
is	COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- well, the County is
~s	offering to help quite a bit.
20	M3. SMITH: Well, they're offering to help patch
21	it. We've got to resolve it before that washes out. If we
22	have a good rain, water runs down the hill, it's going to be
23	washed out. I know ya'all at one time had wanted to open the
2a	road. I don't even care about if we're going to open the
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roads, as long as it gets maintained, and I don't know how to
get it brought back up. I mean, I've addressed the issue
with the person involved, and that isn't going to happen. So
I don't know -- I don't know what else legal recourse I have.
I mean, if we can't afford an attorney and we don't qualify
for rural legal aid, but we pay County taxes, it seems that
maybe the County would be able to offer -- help offer a
solution or offer something. I mean, if these people don't
have the funds to do that.
JUDGE DENSGN: And I appreciate your -- your
plight. I'm sympathetic to your situation. But you have to
understand, just because you pay County taxes, that doesn't
obligate Kerr County and the rest of the taxpayers in Kerr
County to resolve your situation.
MS. SMITH: But the -- ya'all aren't responsible
for enforcing your Court orders as far as making him bring
them up to standards?
JUDGE DENSON: No. That was a conditional order
that we would accept that road far County maintenance forever
once it was brought up to standards. And the reason for that
is that we didn't want to burden the remainder of the
residents of Kerr County with those expenses that were
private in nature at that time and bring that road up to
standards. Those -- your County taxes go for many, many
things, including all the other County roads that you drive
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over. We can't help you. Commissioner Lackey has made a
motion to declare an emergency because of the seriousness of
the condition of that road, and it seems as though
Commissioner Letz has voiced approval of that. I'm in favor
of it. But you have to walk out of this courtroom today with
a clear message that Kerr County has no obligation -- ongoing
obligation to maintain that road or to do anything in the
future. Your residents are all going to have to get together
and they're going to have to just make some hard decisions on
what they want to do. One, sue the developer, or two, come
up with some money, some kind of savings plan, some kind of
plan and come back to Kerr County and say, "Here's what we'll
do. Here's what we'll contribute toward Kerr County assuming
responsibility for those roads." Do you understand that?
MS. SMITH: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Commissioner Lackey's made a
motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: I've got a second. Any further
questions or comments? And that motion is to spend up to
$1,000 for --
MR. ODOM: Patching.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, patching.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DEN3ON: All in favor?
~" II 96
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
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MS. SMITH: Thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, ma'am. Good luck to you.
Okay, 2.2, Consider and discuss request for variance for
minor replat of Lot 3, Vista Verde addition. Mr. Machann?
MR. MACHANN: I think I gave each of you a drawing
of the existing Lot 3 of Vista Verde which has been approved.
I'm in the process of personally selling the, hopefully, 27
acres out of the 65-acre tract. I'll need to replat that.
And what I'm asking for is a -- a variance like you've issued
before to allow a minor replat without going through the --
the public notices and so forth. There will be a private
water system -- I mean private wells on each tract. There is
no water system. There will be private septics. It exceeds
-- as I understand, the U.G.R.A. has, like, a 25-acre minimum
or something for septic systems.
JUDGE DENSON: Right.
MR. MACHANN: The subdivision restrictions have a
minimum of 25 acres; you can't go any smaller than that. And
so I'm lust asking for -- not to avoid the replat process,
but to shorten it and go through the Frank Johnston's
approval process with a formal plat approved by Voelkel
Engineering.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And afterwards „ we'll have
one lot which will be -- we'll call it Lot 3-A, 38 acres, and
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then 3-B will be 277
MR. MACHANN: That's correct.
JUDGE DEN30N: I will make a motion that we grant a
variance for this minor replat.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second your motion.
JUDGE DENSON: Further questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only comment I make is that
the -- really, it's more of the subdivision rules. You know,
this wasn't ever brought up in there. That's probably more
our fault than the County's, but the developers as well. I
don't think -- I don't have a pzoblem with doing it as a
minor replat, but I think, you know, we need to -- it's
really more. Frank, we need to get this -- we talked about
some other changes that we need to make in the rules. We
need to address this in the rules. It -- if we're going to
handle these as minor replats, we need to put that in the
rules that we we can do it without a variance.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you do that, it's -- all
of a sudden you cross a line somewhere. I mean, we get to
the point where we have to say, You have to follow the rules
or get a variance, 'cause variances are not a good way. I
agree, this is one of those things, you know, it's -- there
certainly is no reason to go through a lot of the expense
required to do a full plat. I think I understand their
98
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scenario. So if you'll just remind me to do this, I think
that at the end of the year, we're looking at probably a few
changes coming up.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
MS. HARDIN: Can we ask for a copy of this for our
records? We don't have anything on this. We don't have a
drawing or anything showing where the variance will be.
JUDGE DENSON: Yes. Tammy, let Truby have a copy
of this. Okay, 2.3. Consider variance from platting of 9.51
acres of Doris Drive. This is County Engineer and Delly
Voelkel.
MR. JOHNSTON: We're going to pull this. It's in
the -- we need to go through the City process first.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And I notice that we do have
a 10 o'clock matter on the agenda. Let's move to that.
That's 2.6. It's a public hearing for regulatory signs and
adoption of same. But we'll close our Commissioners' Court
meeting at this time and open up a public meeting on that
subject. And I see in the backup material that a notice to
the public was made in the Kerrville Daily Times dated June
25, 1998.
(Public meeting opened at approximately 10:10 a.m.)
JUDGE DENSON: Franklin? Do you have --
MR. JOHNSTON: I'd read all the signs off, but all
~'^ II 99

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I have is a cover sheet. I don't know if we have that with
us. I think we -- it is a number of regulatory signs that we
read off last -- no, I guess a month ago or more.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Does any member of the public
want to comment or speak on this?
(No response.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. We'll close the public
portion of the meeting.
MR. JOHNSTON: Oh, this pertains to the
20-mile-an-hour an hour speed limit at the new Ingram
elementary school and putting in a crosswalk, or a light for
a school crosswalk, school zone.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. We'll close our public
hearing and qo back to Commissioners' Court.
(Public meeting closed at approximately 10:11 a.m.)
JUDGE DENSON: Do I have a motion?
COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: So move.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DEN3ON: Back to 2.10. Okay. We have some
-- we have our Chief of Police, Chief Dickerson. Good
morning.
CHIEF DICKERSON: Glad to be here.
JUDGE DENSON: 2.10, which is Consider and discuss
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proposed City/County Interlocal Agreement for Kerr County
Animal Control. Mr. Glenn Holekamp, our Facility Manager,
put this on the agenda. And I see our Animal Control officer
is here also. Hello, Mark. Commissioner Holekamp?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: While he's coming up, I want
to make a comment about this. We hear a lot of people
talking about the consolidation of government, City/County
government, and there's been -- in the last few years, been a
big push to do that. And I dust wanted to point out that
City/County consolidates their governments on airports,
landfills, libraries, and now we're moving in a whole new
area here with Animal Control. So, the State government
allows us to consolidate our government already, so there's
no -- in my opinion, there's no reason to go any further;
we're doing everything that we can, and Kerr County and the
City of Kerrville are working hand-in-hand with this issue
and we're doing a good job of it. Thank you.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. The reason this agenda item
was placed on the agenda, I think, is to get the formal
approval of Commissioners' Court to proceed, or whatever
process to go to the City Council for approval or
disapproval, whichever. Chief Dickerson and myself have
worked out a -- a proposal, budget proposal for Kerr County
to perform the Animal Control services for the City of
Kerrville, and we both have come to an agreement in
51
	generalities. I'm not going to say etched in stone. There
i	are some capital items that the City has that the County
2	would probably need to purchase, that -- those numbers are --
3	we're close, but they are not etched in stone. And I think
a	what's going to have to happen is, once it gets a definite
5	approval from both bodies, the City and the County, then we
s	can say, okay, this is what we're willing to do. And if the
~	City says yes, then we'll go from there. But I think that
s	the concept in dollars, in generalities, needs to be
s	established before we get down to the exact cents at this
~o	point. I will tell you, the preliminary figures that -- the
>>	numbers that Chief Dickerson and myself have worked up will
12	save the taxpayers overall. Now, I'm not saying -- it should
is	save all taxpayers approximately 515,000 a year if you
is	combine the budgets to work as one entity. So it is -- it is
~5	not only an efficiency factor from a -- a manpower
16	standpoint, but it will be also efficient from a dollar
i~	standpoint for tax dollars. And if there's any questions of
is	Chief Dickerson -- or I have our Animal Control officer from
i9	the County, Mark Allen, who worked previously with the City.
20	If there are some questions about coverage, level of service,
21	that you wish to ask them, I'll kind of leave it up to ya'all
22	to ask the questions.
29	CHIEF DICKERSON: I would like to just make a
2a	comment; let you know, you know, how it's going through the
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JUDGE DENSON: Sure.
CHIEF DICKERSON: What we're doing, City-wise -- we
think that combining this is a good thing. We are
duplicating services in some areas in Animal Control, so I
presented -- after getting with Glenn and working out some
preliminary figures where we can show savings for both County
and City taxpayers, I put this in my budget process so that
-- and the City Council may not even be aware of it -- so
that -- well, it will after they read the paper. But it will
go into the budget process so that they can consider it at
that time in budget work sessions. That will be the first
time they get -- well, they've probably been infozmed of it,
but they'll actually see the numbers and stuff. So, other
than trying to figure out capital items like, again, Glenn
had mentioned we just bought a brand-new truck last year and
some of those features, and then getting attorneys to do the
contracts and stuff, or the intezlocal agreements. But right
now, I would say that the City's -- City management is
leaning towards pushing this through our budget process and
getting approval from counsel and meeting your approval, then
it should come into reality, hopefully, by October. But the
main concern the City has is the -- that we don't lose any
level of service provided to the citizens in the City. And
Glenn has assured me that that wouldn't happen, and that was
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our big concern.
COMMIS3IONER HALDWIN: One of the things that I
think that we're doing here today is to make the decision,
yes, we're ready to go over to the City and appear before the
City Council and say, Hey, guys, we're ready to go here;
here's the program and we're ready to go. 3o I think that's
kind of what we're doing. You think we're still a little
premature for that?
CHIEF DICKERSON I don't, no.
COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: I don't either.
CHIEF DICKERSON: It's good from my point of view
because during the budget process, as I push it in there, I
can already say that the County has bought into this program
and wants to see it succeed. That's just going to help their
decision-making.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. We --
CHIEF DICKERSON: Somebody's got to put their foot
out first.
JUDGE DENSON: We requested it --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As usual, it's us.
me, I'm sorry.
JUDGE DENSON: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did it, I'm sorry
me.
JUDGE DENSON: Are you through?
Excuse
Excuse
54
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COMMISSIONER HALDWIN: Yes, I'm through. Didn't
take much.
JUDGE DENSON: I think we asked that Glenn put this
on the agenda so we could, as a Court, go through the
formality of issuing an order to pursue. And that's what --
where we are now. I guess I'm a little concerned, too,
because I've been involved with this thing for several years.
You and I and Glenn started off talking about it three years
ago, whenever it was.
CHIEF DICKERSON: Ya'all were in the shelter.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. And that's the level of
service. We -- assuming we do this, we can perform
outstanding service, but that's always tied to dollars. So,
I know -- I know, from discussions with you, that you'll do a
lot of things that maybe we won't be able to do, some of the
personal attention that some of the people may get.
CHIEF DICKERSON: Well, that's true, we've spoiled
the City residents and stuff in the area of Animal Control.
JUDGE DENSON: We probably could do those things,
but that requires more manpower. And if the City would be
asking for those things, then the City should be willing to
pay for those things.
CHIEF DICKERSON: I think, from our talks, that
we've come to an understanding that a lot of what we offer
now can be accomplished, maybe not as aggressively as what
55
	we've done in the past.		
			
L ~ ~	JUDGE DENSON:	Okay.	Let's see, we need a motion.
2	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	So move.
3	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	What is the motion?
a	JUDGE DENSON:	A moti	on to authorize --
5	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	To enter negotiations with
s	the City of Kerrville f	or Kerr	County to provide the animal
~	control service.		
e	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	Second.
e	COMMISSIONER	LET2: I	s it appropriate for
~~	Commissioner Baldwin to	get on	the agenda on the City
~~	Council? I mean, is th	at where	we're going with it?
12	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	I'd be happy to qo over
~, t3	there and be in a suppo	rting ro	le of Mx. Holekamp.
is	JUDGE DENSON:	That's	part of the motion.
15	COMMISSIONER	HALDWIN:	Well, I'll second.
~6	JUDGE DENSON:	Okay.	Further questions, comments
	on this subject? All i	n favor?	
78	(The motion was carri	ed by unanimous vote.)
i9	JUDGE DENSON:	Okay.	
20	MR. HOLEKAMP:	Thank	you.
21	JUDGE DENSON:	Thank	you, Chief.
22	CHIEF DICKERS	ON: You	bet.
23	JUDGE DENSON:	Maybe,	Chuck, maybe we can have the
2a	City Attorney develop s	ome kind	of an interlocal agreement?
25			
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CHIEF DICKERSON: Yeah, that's what -- I've put
some stuff to him, and as soon as we get another couple of
budget sessions out of the way, he'll probably start drafting
something to give you so you can have the County Attorney --
JUDGE DENSON: Terrific. Thank you very much.
CHIEF DICKERSON: You bet. Thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, let's go back and pick up
these two Road and Bridge maters, and then we'll -- then
we'll get to 2.11. We have Mr. Finley and Mr. Rothwell here.
2.4, Consider publishing public notice of intent to establish
a road district for Spring Creek Ranch and set public hearing
for same. County Engineer and Truby Hardin. Truby, good
morning.
MS. HARDIN: Yes, good morning. These are just
housekeeping things. No one who works for the County has
ever done a road district before, and Billie and I have been
working together on this and, according to the Transportation
Code, we need to publish a public notice, which you have a
copy of, and set a public hearing date. And I requested the
24th if we can do that.
JUDGE DENSON: August 29th at 10:00?
MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir -- I don't have 10:00.
JUDGE DENSON: We can do it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move.
COMMISSIONER HALDWIN: Second.
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JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.
MS.HARDIN: Once the public hearing is done, we
will send out certified -- by certified mail, and the Road
and Bridge Department will mail those. When the ballots come
back, then Billie and I have talked about it, and she and I
together will count the ballots and then come back to the
Court for the --
JUDGE DENSON: Very good.
MS. HARDIN: -- for conditions. Okay, thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 2.5, Consider realignment of
Road and Bzidge Crew to fill open position.
MR. ODOM: Leonard Odom. If you will turn to the
supporting documents that we have, you'll see back there,
June the 11th, we sent a memo to Barbara, and we -- it says,
We recently sent the attached memo to Barbara Nemec asking
her to fill our open positions. Even though there are no
changes in salaries -- and which all the changes we've made
didn't cost any money; it was basically a move up -- she was
unable to make the changes without permission from the Court
in relation to this individual. Our intent is to fill the
17-1 position, in turn leaving open an entry level of 12-1.
There is no way to move this individual, because of his
longevity and experience, to a new step without raising the
grade. In other words, if we were moving him from a 19 -- if
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you go back to that individual, he is a 14-1, and to move
him, he's at the same salary as a 16-7. 3o what I'm asking
the Court, instead of a 16-1, which the man would lose wages,
for your intent -- the way I look at it is dollars; we're not
changing any dollars. But I understand that the Court, when
you look at it, you look at the position. So I'm asking the
Court to allow this individual to have a 16-7 instead of a
16-1 position. Does that make sense? Barbara?
MS. NEMEC: Yes.
MR. ODOM: And we're doing this internally. Like I
say, it's not costing anything. We made the move. But since
there is a -- a procedure of the Court to a 16-1 beginning,
this would be a decrease in the man's salary.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is the reason because of a
change in job, what they're doing, job assignments?
MR. ODOM: Job assignment will probably be changed
to signs, yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I -- I'm just trying to
figure out why you're doing it.
MR. ODOM: Oh, why I'm doing it. Well, this
individual is at a 19-1; he only has one more step. So, he
is qualified, he did signs before. And we're looking at --
we've been experimenting with the part-time. But I have --
he has that ability to move to a 16. He's been with the
County, I think, 16, 17 years, and this allows him the
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opportunity -- I think he's got another seven before he can
retire at that point. So, you know, it gives this man the
opportunity, as merit increases are given to us, to move him
up. He's frozen at one, but essentially I didn't want to
punish the man from a 19-1 to a 16-1; that's a 6-step drop in
salary. And my understanding is that the Court has done this
previously, so we're not setting precedents or anything.
JUDGE DENSON: No, we've done this a number of
times.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Second by Commissioner Lackey. All
in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
MR. ODOM: Thank ya'all.
JUDGE DENSON: Thank you. Okay. Let's see, 2.7,
Approval of interlocal agreement for mental health and
chemical dependency commitments, Kerrville State Hospital,
for Hidalgo County, dated September '97. County Clerk, I
think.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And 2.8, appoint election
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judges and alternate election judges for the general
election, Section 32, Election Code. Gloria Anderson, Sharon
Bantling. Good morning, ladies.
MS. ANDERSON: Good morning, how are you?
JUDGE DENSON: Terrific.
MS. ANDERSON: According to the new Election Code,
the County votes for the last general election and percentage
of the winning -- for the winning governor determines the
positions now for the presiding judges and alternate judges
for the general elections. And in that mode, I, Gloria
Anderson, Kerr County Republican Party Chair, do hereby
respectfully submit the names of the following persons to the
Kerr County Commissioners' Court and recommend they be
appointed to serve as presiding judges for general elections
conducted in Kerr County for a period of two years beginning
August 1998. And I believe you all have the list. Do you
want me to read those names out?
JUDGE DENSON: No, ma'am that's not necessary.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Anderson, I missed
something up front. Are you saying these are obviously
Republicans?
MS. ANDERSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the reason that you get
to appoint the judges is because a Republican governor won
last time?
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MS. ANDERSON: That's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what we're saying?
M3. ANDERSON: And because he carried the county
with the largest number of votes.
COMMISSIONBR BALDWIN: I see.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. I think --
JUDGE DENSON: We're going to do the Republicans,
then we'll do the Democrats.
MS. ANDERSON: Alternate judges.
JUDGE DEN30N: We have a motion. We've got a
second?
(Commissioner Baldwin nodded.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, Ms. Bartling?
MS. BARTLING: I would like to retract the list
that I sent in this June and replace it. On July 7th, last
week, I received a letter from the Secretary of State's
office indicating that democratic alternate election judges
must be residents of the precinct, and so I had not
understood that, unless the precinct had 85 percent for the
opposite party. And I have two precincts, 909 and 910, that
fall under that 85 percent. For the rest I should have
residents. And so may I have those lists back, and I'll give
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you this.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
MS. BARTLING: Thank you. I'm sorry for the
confusion.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, I'm again -- I'm a
little bit confused.
MS. BARTLING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me why -- let's just
look at the first one there. And I'm assuming that's
Precinct 1017
MS. BARTLING: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that gentleman has an
Ingram telephone number.
MS. BARTLING: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So he's not a resident of
Precinct 1?
MS. BARTLING: Yes, he is. He surely is, according
to all of the registration. This is Victoria Drive. It's
out behind the State Hospital in a new subdivision.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right.
M3. BARTLING: It's in your precinct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is. Okay. I didn't
realize 367 -- yes, I did know that, too. Thank you.
MS. BARTLING: Are there any other questions that I
could ask -- answer?
63

	JUDGE DENSON: No, ma'am. I just -- just a
fr'q	
L.~ i	statement. I didn't know we had such fine individuals in
2	Kerr County that were democrats.
s	MS. BARTLING: Well, I'm glad for you to discover
4	that.
5	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All these folks are
s	democrats?
~	MS. BARTLING: Absolutely.
e	COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: Let's see here, now. Wait a
9	minute.
~~	COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Don't get into that.
~~	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's not get into that?
i2	MS. ANDERSON: They might have voted for you,
~,,, 13	Buster. You ought to just be quiet.
~4	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we adopt the list.
i5	Thank you.
16	COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
:~	JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion and second.
is	Further comments? All in favor?
is	(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
20	JUDGE DENSON: Ms. Anderson, Ms. Bantling, thank
21	you both very, very much. Those are the respective Chairs of
22	the republican and democratic parties in our county.
23	JUDGE DENSON: Okay, we're down to 2.11. Once we
2a	take up 2.11 and dispose of that, we'll take our morning
25	
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	break. Oh, excuse me. I overlooked 2.9, Consider and
~l	
L ~ ~	discuss changing appointing County Clerk's term from November
2	the 3rd, '98, to December 31st, '98. And let me -- it may be
s	presumtious. I think when we first appointed Billie Meeker
a	as County Clerk, it was before the primaries, and we didn't
5	know who was going to run or what-have-you. It was before
s	people even signed up. But, obviously, we now know that we
~	have a contested general election; there's a democrat and a
e	republican running for that position, so it would not be
s	proper for her term to end the 3rd. 3o I would move that her
~~	-- the appointment be until -- for Billie Meeker for County
~~	Clerk be until December 31st, '98.
12	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
,^„ 13	JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion and second.
is	Further questions? Comments? The only thing I'd like to
15	add to that, Ms. Meeker, you've proved to Commissioners'
16	Court once again, a very wise body of individuals, you're
	doing an outstanding job.
18	MS. MEEKER: Well, thank you. I appreciate it,
is	because I -- I would like to finish. If I walk out on
20	November the 3rd, I'll feel like I've left the job
2i	unfinished; the election, particularly.
22	JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
23	(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
2a	JUDGE DENSON: Okay, thank you. Okay. Now, 2.11,
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Consider and discuss forming an interlocal co-op for employee
health insurance. Ray Rothwell and Bryan Finley. I talked
to Ray on the telephone about this subject matter, and it's
-- it's one that, of course, deals with our health insurance,
one that the Court should be briefed on to see what kind of
programs may be out there. I know our anniversary, I think,
is November the 1st.
MR. FINLEY: That's correct.
JUDGE DENSON: So, later in this year we'll be
looking at insurance benefits and costs related. So, Mr.
Finley, good morning to you.
MR. FINLEY: Good morning. Thank you, Judge. A
couple of years ago, we brought before the Court the concept
of a partially self-funded insurance program. That has
worked very, very successfully. You've had no premium
increase in the last two years. The third party
administrator for the plan that we introduced at that time,
and that you all accepted, was Employee Benefits
Administrators out of San Antonio. Mr. Ray Rothwell, who is
here this morning, and I think probably most of you know, is
associated with them. The discussion that the Judge referred
to that he had had with Mr. Rothwell, and that I have
commented on to one or two of you, relates to the forming of
an interlocal co-op that has certain advantages that can
accrue to the County. Very specific advantages, as a matter
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of fact. We have -- we have, quite literally, taken Ms.
Nemec out of the insurance business in the last couple of
years after she had been in it for so very long, having to
literally be your plan administrator far the prior carriers
over the years. So, we feel that this is just another step
in solidifying what we initiated two years ago. To simplify
things for you all as a Commissioners' Court, and to continue
to provide the type of benefits and services that we're
presently doing, I'd like for Mr. Rothwell to address the
issue.
JUDGE DENSDN: Thank you.
MR. ROTHWELL: Thanks, Bryan. I'm Ray Rothwell,
and I do work for Employee Benefit Administrators in San
Antonio. I work in the marketing area as Director of
Marketing for that company. I want to go into the structure
and the workings of a co-op, but I'm not sure how deep to go
into it, seeing from your agenda apparently ya'all are very
familiar with interlocal co-ops. Basically, the interlocal
co-op that we're talking about is for health insurance. It
would be put together with Kerr County as the nucleus, with
the intent of inviting other government political
subdivisions, not necessarily contiguous to Kerr County, into
a group that we've called Guadalupe Valley Interlocal Co-Op,
for lack of another name. That name is not -- not materially
important. Included in the program would be life, dental,
.-- II 6~
	and at this point medical insurance. We do administer the
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y program now, and I think to everyone
s
2	satisfaction, generally pretty well. As well as you can --
3	you can't keep everyone happy in a -- in an employee health
a	insurance program, but I think we've done very decently.
s	MS. NEMEC: 99.5 percent are happy.
s	MR. ROTHWELL: Incidently, we're looking at forming
~	a number of other co-ops this year. We have a couple of very
e	successful co-ops. We have four others that we think are
s	going to be formed, primarily school districts south, east,
~o	and west of here, with a September 1 effective date. The
>>	advantage of a co-op is to take your employee base of -- I'm
i2	not sure how many, 150 or 175?
.~. 13	M3. NEMEC: 280.
is	MR. ROTHWELL: 2807 That's pretty good for a
t5	marketing guy; I'm normally on the high side. Typically, we
is	look at keeping County-to-County. We do have some that are
i~	City/County mixes in them. We have none of the school
is	district/County mixes and County/City employees. City-County
~s	employees appear to work well; they're generally like-kind of
20	employees. They work for the City, versus the County. So
2i	that's one of the things we're looking at doing. Does anyone
22	have any questions on the workings of a co-op that I could
23	clarify for you?
2a	JUDGE DENSON: Let me ask you to comment, Ray, on
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~...
probably the two most important issues that the
1="~l	
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2	MR. ROTHWELL: Okay.
3	JUDGE DENSON: And I ask this relative to our
a	existing insurance, --
5	MR. ROTHWELL: Okay.
e	JUDGE DENSON: -- as compared to the co-op, --
~	MR. ROTHWELL: Mm-hmm.
9	JUDGE DENSON: -- is cost and benefits.
9	MR. ROTHWELL: Okay. The benefit doesn't change.
~~	You can have four or five or ten different units or entities
~~	in a co-op. Each one can have a different benefit level.
i2	You can have a $500 benefit, someone else can have a $200,
13	someone else can have $1,000. Someone can have life in
is	theirs and you may not have life. Someone can have dental.
is	So each plan, each -- like, Kerr County can have their health
is	insurance program exactly like they have it today. They can
i~	improve it, take away from it, they can do anything they want
18	to with it, not affecting, say, Gillespie County as a member
is	-- as a member of that co-op. They can have their program.
20	The intent going into a co-op generally is not to lower
2i	health care costs, particularly. The real intent of it is to
22	stabilize it going forward, with more bodies to spread the
23	risk over, all properly underwritten and properly rated on a
20	self-program, the monthly funding basis. So we look very
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closely at each unit we're inviting into the co-op to find
out what kind of claims experience they're having currently
or have had in the recent couple of three years. In one of
our co-ops we're working with down south -- or we're forming
down south, we had to exclude two units that wanted to --
that really wanted to be in the the co-op because of health
reasons and charge claims. We didn't want to bring a unit
like that into -- into an existing co-op. So the cost
really, Bob, would be -- would be where your co-op has had an
extremely good two years of experience, there's a reserve
built up. I'm not sure exactly what that dollar figure is.
JUDGE DEN3ON: Our existing?
MR. ROTHWELL: Your existing County program. Now,
going forward, let me respond to that at this point too.
Going forward, if -- if you would take action and approve the
establishment of a co-op, say, effective November 1, which is
your anniversary date, all the reserves you have up to that
point would stay Kerr County employee benefit reserves. But
from November 1 forward, the monthly money that -- the
funding that you put into that co-op would be comingled with
any other county that comes into it or city that might come
into it. But the advantage of that, again, is maybe -- maybe
raising, with enough additional life, raising the stop loss,
which lowers the premium -- the reinsurance premium a little
bit because you got moze bodies to spread that stop loss
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over.
JUDGE DENSON: You need to tell us, though, why
would we be justified in establishing a co-op, as opposed to
keeping what we have right now?
MR. ROTHWELL: In putting more bodies in -- more
health insurance bodies into the pool, if you will, to spread
any large risk with -- to share large risks with, as opposed
to you looking at doing them yourself, you know, you can --
JUDGE DENSON: In other words --
MR. ROTHWELL: You can have one large claim. We've
got three of them in the Pecos School that would wipe out
your reserve the first -- would have wiped it out back in
January, the first month one of those claims hit. And it
would have put you into the aggregate reinsurance level if
you had one large cancer claim or one large heart attack or
one really bad car wreck. And car insurance -- well, there's
limits on car insurance. So it's just to spread the risk.
Its an economic future factor.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, and I guess some of the
features that would be available in a co-op, the selection of
different types of personalized plans, say?
MR. ROTHWELL: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: Coverage would be available in a
co-op, and it's not available now the way we -- we have our
insurance program?
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MR. ROTHWELL: That's right.
JUDGE DENSON: And what I'm saying, I think Butch
and Bruce were here when we went through a lot of this
changing from the former company and agency to Finley and
Associates, their proposal. We .did have some discussions
about co-ops at that time, and I'm very much in favor of
co-ops, myself. Sally -- Ingram school has a co-op which is
administered, I think, through the same company, or at least
through --
MR. ROTHWELL: It's through Bryan's insurance
agency. A different company, though.
JUDGE DENSON: What you have and what we've got in
discussing employees and cost, or should there be a cost to
employees, some employees want the $10 per visit doctor, and
some want dental, some want various things from employee to
employee. The County, I think, has always been -- it's been
the intent to furnish the employee with cost-free medical
insurance, but then there was some discussion about
dependents that would be on the insurance. You have some
young people that work for the County, yet you have some old
people like me who work for the County, and naturally, one
type of insurance, which is what we have right now, one type
of policy really doesn't meet the needs of each type of
family that I'm describing, or individual. And what they
have, like -- again, I can only speak about Ingram
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Independent School District. Annually, they send us some
paperwork. When we sit down, we may look at ten different
plans and decide what kind of coverage we want, what kind of
deductible we want, and, of course, it all has a relationship
to how much cost we want to incur individually. If we want
just to have plain vanilla, it's going to be a lot cheaper
than with all the bells and whistles. So I like that. I
like that -- those features or those options available. I'd
like to -- we can't -- we can't make any kind of decision
today, but I'd like to, you know, explore this a little bit
more, as one option to consider when we do come around to
making a decision.
MS. NEMEC: May I ask Mr. Rothwell a question?
JUDGE DENSON: Please do.
MS. NEMEC: The Commissioners' Court has always
been concerned about the bidding process. How would a co-op
affect the bidding process?
MR. ROTHWELL: First, on the bidding, we bid as --
as your intermediary. We bid the reinsurance every year. We
use several different reinsurance carriers -- and when I talk
about reinsurance, we're talking about a specific reinsurance
level and an aggregate reinsurance level. We bid that every
year. We will go out to bid in September for Kerr County
reinsurance bids. And we just -- we will bid seven or eight
of the largest reinsurers in the country, Cygna, CNA,
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TransAmerica, those kind of companies. As far as bidding,
once -- if you're in a co-op, if you establish a co-op, then
you're -- you're exempt from the municipality bidding
requirements. You don't have to bid your program once every
-- periodically, however often you have to if you have a -- a
typical insurance company, insurance program. So being a
member of a co-op, you're excluded from the bidding process
that the State requires on other types of things. But we do
bid it annually and will continue to bid annually for the
reinsurance benefits. Okay? One of the things that I'd
really like in -- in consideration is, as we're going
forward, we've had several -- several agents approach us,
knowing we're in the co-op business with a number of new
programs. Can we establish a co-op7 Can we join a co-op?
Would you consider bidding us in a co-op this year? All
that's going to happen -- well, Sob, as you know, before
November. And we would like to be in a position to say that
Kerr County has considered and is willing to -- or apparently
might be willing to develop and be the nucleus or starting
point of a co-op. You have to have somebody to start one.
And you can be one person in a co-op, if it came down to
that. We do have a number of counties, not all contiguous to
Kerr County, that have expressed an interest in joining a
co-op in November. So -- yes?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You do not have to bid if
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you're in a co-op, but can you bid if you're in a co-op7
MR. ROTHWELL: Sure you can.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we can -- I have a little
bit of a problem of joining the co-op and then removing us
from the bidding process with other carriers.
MR. ROTHWELL: Sure. Well, you know the -- the
carrier we bid for you. As long as you're self-insured, we
bid that for you. We share that information with you. We
spreadsheet the responses and share it with you. As a County
government, you're excluded from having to do that. You
could -- you could go out on your own and do that process --
well, you can't bid -- as a County, you can't go get quotes;
you'd have to do it through an agent, but you could look for
another third-party administrator. That's the function we
perform for you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it doesn't preclude you from
doing that?
MR. ROTHWELL: No, it does not, but it does
preclude you from having to qo on a periodic bidding process.
But you can rest assured, we shop everything we renew.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the government
entities that you can co-op with? You've mentioned other
counties, of course, and a possibility of co-oping with the
cities. What about Peterson Hospital, KI3D, those kind of
government entities?
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MR. ROTHWELL: Well, Peterson Hospital, I don't
think, is a County hospital any longer, are they?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not.
MR. ROTHWELL: So you can't -- it has to be a
government entity. You can't -- Kerrville school district
would be one locally here. The City and the County.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could co-op with the
school district?
MR. ROTHWELL: Yes. In fact, we're starting to
visit with the new -- the new business manager there,
hopefully next week, on discussing that program of co-op or
direct. So that's where we are. And so, really, we would
like -- from a TPA standpoint, we would like some kind of
action as -- you know, at the earliest time that we would
know, yeah, we can.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, the action we can take today
is to say we're interested.
MR. ROTHWELL Okay. All right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Concept sounds good.
JUDGE DENSON: And what I would like, maybe through
Ms. Nemec, is to have some kind of proposal, maybe, prepared.
She can submit it to us for our study, and then we'll make
another agenda item.
MR. ROTHWELL: Okay.
JUDGE DENSON: And move along with it further into
76

	this	thing.
		
L ~ 1		MR. ROTHWELL: November's going to be here pretty
2	quick	.
9		JUDGE DENSON: I know it. Well, and our budget is
a	here.	We're right in the middle of it as we speak.
5		MR. ROTHWELL: Okay.
s		JUDGE DENSON: But we're interested and we want to
~	move	forward.
8		MR. ROTHWELL: Very good.
s		JUDGE DENSON: There's not much we can do today.
~~		MR. ROTHWELL: I understand that.
~~		JUDGE DENSON: Thank you for coming. Good to see
i2	you.	
,,,_, t3		MR. FINLEY: Thank you, gentlemen.
is		JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Let's take a -- it's about 10
15	till	11:00, per this clock. We'll resume at 11 o'clock.
is		(Whereupon a brief recess was taken.)
		JUDGE DEN3ON: Okay. It's 11 o'clock
the 13th of
		,
18	July,	'98. We'll resume our discussions. And I think our
is	next	item is 2.12, Consider and discuss extending the burn
20	ban .	
2i		COMMI3SIONER LACKEY: So move.
22		COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
2s		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we just did that a
2a	couple days ago.
25		
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now we'll be back in sequence
with our meeting.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: 2.13, Consider and discuss proposed
alternate demolition procedures by contractor, Mart, Inc., by
Larry Gabel of Absolute Demolition. There doesn't -- this
looks like our architect.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It does.
MR. WALKER: I'm on there too.
JUDGE DEN30N: Yes, but where is Larry Gabe17
Gone?
MR. WALKER: Well, he's on his way down from
upstairs. He wasn't sure -- could we beg the Court to swap
around?
JUDGE DENSON: 2.19 is Consider and discuss
proposal by Voelkel Engineering. You want that one?
MR. WALKER: Absolutely, please, sir. Thank you.
I have Lee Voelkel here, the County Surveyor, to discuss that
one along with us. And he does have some breakout
information. It's essentially two separate -- well, we
combined them to save money, but two issues there. One is
we're starting to realize, as we get into the -- as the walls
come down, we're starting to realize a tremendous amount of
unevenness where they slope the floors up there with the
78
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	topping. So part of the contract was for the -- the current
	
~ ~ ~	demolition contractor to remove some of it so we could see
2	how hard that 2-inch topping is. I want to call it 2 inches,
3	but it's an inch in some places and 3 inches in some places.
a	But a normal 2-inch topping to determine how hard it is to
5	get up. And we talked about it, and I brought a proposal to
s	you from Absolute -- from Mart before for 512,000 to remove
~	all of it. But that was before they really even had a chance
e	to chip it up and see how hard it was to to get up. It is
s	put in according to the drawings. There is a layer of
~~	asphaltic material, a sheet that was put on top of the rough
>>	slab, and then the finish slab poured on top of it. It does
~2	not come off very easily. It is -- it's been a little sticky
13	to do, but he's doing a couple more test places to find out
is	how bad it is.
~5	What our problem is, again, is back to one of dead load,
is	and that is that the weight of all that concrete up there, if
	we pour more concrete to come up 3 1/2 inches, obviously
18	we've far exceeded what the dead load ought to be up there.
is	So there's sort of a -- a tough question we need to ask, and
20	that is how much of that stuff do we need to either take off
2i	and/or grind down so that we can stay with no more than 2
22	inches above where we are right now? Because it affects
23	everything. Just think about it as you step off the stairs
2a	or out of the elevator; I mean, we don't want to be having to
25	
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monkey around with that -- that floor heighth in there. This
back part where the Sheriff's offices, Dispatchers, and so
forth used to be is all nice and level; it's nominal 2-inch,
and it's fine.
The problem is where the cells are and where we're
pulling those walls up out of that topping, we're getting all
this unevenness where the floor was -- was swaled to make the
floor drains work. 3o I've asked Lee to come up and -- and
give us an estimate on what it would take to get the --
enough spot elevations once the walls are removed; he's got
to have them out of his way so he can see. And he's -- we're
asking for somewhere around 90 or 50 elevations so that we
can determine a number of things, but primarily how uneven
the floor is, and two, if there's been any settlement. Those
are the two major things we want to know, and then that will
tell us what we've got to do to remedy that problem.
The other issue was -- was one of site work. And we can
certainly split these out and talk about them separately.
Obviously, if you put them together, you'll probably get a
better deal. And I have not talked with any other surveyors.
I went to Lee because he's the County Surveyor; they do good
work. And he can give me the drawings on AutoCAD so that I
can put them into our CAD files so all the stuff will -- will
mesh together pretty easily. At least from, you know, an
electronic standpoint, 'cause we're going to give you
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finished drawings to document all of this, the entire
courthouse or everything that we work on. So we would like
for that to be as complete and thorough as possible.
And, in addition to that, if you do want us to do the --
the parking rework and the drainage, which we would like for
-- we would like for you to consider doing that way, then
this would give us the information that we need to go
forward. I've never been down here when it rains hard and
floods, so I'm not sure what happens, but I know that we've
got some very porous asphalt out there that picks up a lot of
that, keeps it from being run off. But outside of a couple
of little storm drains that are plugged into the curbs around
here, and then that one giant storm drain over in the corner,
I don't -- I don't know enough about the site to tell you
what the drainage problems are ox are not, and this would
help define that. And it would also help locate all of the
things that are on the grounds: monuments, trees, and so
forth, so it can all be tied together. What I need the site
plan for, as I told you before, is so that when I take this
to the ADA people, the first question they ask you, what your
-- they want to know the total accessibility picture. So,
basically, I've got to take it from wherever people park all
the way into inside the building, the restrooms.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, Mike, how much is this going
to cost?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $5,700. Where's the money
coming from?
MR. WALKER: That's the estimate that he has given
us, and he's here to explain any more about it. Timewise --
JUDGE DENSON: Well isn't he -- isn't Voelkel
Engineering -- I guess is it Don that's County?
MR. VOELKEL: No, that's me.
JUDGE DEN3ON: It is Lee? Okay. Well, I thought
that meant, when you had that title, that you did all this
stuff on a volunteer basis.
MR. VOELKEL: I think I have up to this point.
What we've done, Judge, on all the County Surveyor work, that
we lust normally charge our regular fees; in other words, any
hours that are spent, fieldwork and office work, is computed
that way. I think Mike wanted to get a feel before we got
started for what type of money you would be looking at to do
that type of work for the courthouse square. And that --
that number that I have given you there is for the -- for
everything that Mike and I have talked about, which is
basically what he has already discussed, and the as-built of
the square here, then along with additional elevations inside
the buildings, and that includes all of that work.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And have an accurate record
25 years down the road when someone comes in and wants to
expand, we have an accurate record of what that building is
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all about?
MR. WALKER: And the grounds, yes, sir.
COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: And the grounds. See, that
would be the reason that I would be for it, 'cause we run
into these things all the time of not having records.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- upstairs, there's no
question we need to do that; we need to figure out those
elevations in the building. On the courthouse grounds, you
know, I'm trying to see what the real value is. I've got a
real question in my head about being able to spend the money
it's going to cost to do the parking that we talked about
last time. I mean, I don't see that happening. So, if we're
just trying to find out where the trees are and the drainage
and the culverts, I'm not so sure we need that -- need to do
a survey on that. I mean, I don't know why we need to be
this precise, unless we're going to do a major construction
project in the parking lot.
MR. WALKER: Well, I mean, think about what
happens, as Buster was saying here, you know, ten years from
now, when somebody gets ready to do something else on the
site. I know every time I've tried -- every time I've done a
project down here, which has been four or five, you do all
this digging back through all these little slips of paper and
things that are found through various places in the
courthouse. What I'm trying to do is get you some
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centralized information so that anybody that has to do
anything -- so if somebody wants to come put a monument or a
saber jet on the lawn or whatever they're talking about
doing, that you've got all the information you need there to
do it. But, I mean, I went through a couple of those
sessions that involved the monument out there where there was
a whole lot of arm-waving and nobody knew where anything was.
And it is -- as it happens, it is about 9 feet too far that
way, so that we can't even park cars in that portion of it.
So, you know, I think the -- for planning purposes, just to
document what you have, because you don't have that right
now.
COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: You mean like plumbing and
electrical wizing and that kind of stuff?
MR. WALKER: Yeah. Eventually, everything that
happens to the courthouse could be plugged into that -- that
matrix once you have that information down.
COMMI33IONER LETZ: Okay, I really -- eventually is
what -- you said eventually. Plumbing and electrical plugged
in7 What is going to be plugged in now? We don't have it
all at one time?
MR. WALKER: Well, by eventually, I meant as things
happen to the courthouse, you will always be able to put that
stuff on there. I'm not suggesting -- for example, there are
some -- there's an old irrigation system here, an old steel
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irrigation system that has heads; every once in a while
somebody finds one of the heads for it. I mean, I'm not
suggesting that we go through and document where all those
lines are and everything, but the main sources need to be on
there.
JUDGE DEN3ON: As he said, what's the whole -- is
this going to be the whole loaf?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is going to be on there?
I mean, are we going to have utility lines, telephone lines,
all the electrical wires?
MR. WALKER: Once we have those trees -- see,
they've gone out there and put outlets all over the place out
there. Once we -- most of them are on trees. Once we have
those trees located, we can accurately locate where
everything is off of that. Right now we're just out there
with a 100-foot tape trying to figure out where this is and
that is relative to something else that we're not even sure
that's where it really is or not. So there's -- all we
really have to do is measure off the building and go out. We
don't have this all tied into the property markers.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're going to have the drawing
of this City block with all the trees on it, where the
driveway is, where the building is7
MR. WALKER: Curbs.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can see some benefit to it,
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because I can see, if nothing else happens around here around
the square, that repaving or concreting the existing driveway
is going to be something that's necessary within a very short
time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And if you qo ahead and get
your elevations, you already have what you need in order to
go out, get pretty much your specs and stuff for your paving
and whatever; you'll have some elevations and things to go
by, right?
MR. WALKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that it would be much
easier to go and get work done rather than having it done
prior to going out with those bids.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's kind of where I'm at.
I think eventually we'll do some parking at some point out
there, may not have much choice other than doing that. And
you mark my words, somebody is going to come in here and want
to donate a large birdhouse one of these days, and we need to
be ready.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I think it's most
likely that that's about to happen.
JUDGE DENSON: If someone did that --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that prophetic?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Something along that line.
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JUDGE DENSON: If someone did that, would we have
that birdhouse marked on this?
MR. WALKER: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: It would be, okay.
MR. WALKER: All the major monuments. By that, I
don't mean just the war memorial, but I mean all monuments
would be.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's time to do that.
And especially, as he says, too, that it's going to have to
be submitted to ADA. If you're going to have to do that, you
know, and submit a whole complete plan, that's part of the
doggone plan from the car to the building.
JUDGE DENSON: Sounds like I got a motion here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've always been there; I've
just questioned where's the money coming from.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have to come out of permanent
improvement.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- or first.
JUDGE DENSON: First. And second?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. That will be part of
the building -- part of the cost of the building project,
remodeling or whatever.
JUDGE DENSON: All right. All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. We need to qo back to 2.13
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now.
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. I don't have the numbers in
front of me, but that's what you --
JUDGE DENSON: Is it Gabel or Gable?
MR. GABEL: Gabel, that's correct.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. That's 2.19, Consider and
discuss proposed alternate demolition procedures by
contractor.
MR. WALKER: I'm going to really just turn this
over to Larry and let him discuss with you whatever he wants
to talk about, where we are in the status of everything.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Great idea.
MR. WALKER: You got it.
JUDGE DENSON: Lee, thank you.
MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir, thank you.
MR. GABLE: Morning. We are moving along well
upstairs. We went to all manpower and went about five times
what we would have had we saw-cut and dropped, so we're
moving along well. Probably about two weeks ahead of our
critical path completion. Few things that we're working on
still are getting services to the temporary cell, holding
cell. What we have hooked up has been cut off inside the
cell for water, so we're trying to get into a mechanical
chase to get water turned on, and the air conditioning unit
that feeds it is not working in part. It's cooling, but it's
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not blowing, so we're trying to get that repaired. It's
apparently just a deficiency that was within the machine
since we've been here. So, those -- the temporary cell has
power. It has water fed to it, but the water is cut off
somewhere in the cell. There's no key to the access panel.
We're going to start nibbling away at the lock that's on
there so we can do a minimal amount of entry, and maybe a
hasp and padlock will close it back up sufficiently later.
With us finishing our work ahead of what the contract
calls for, that puts us in a position where we're ready to
demobilize, reinstall panels on the exterior of the building,
and -- and wrap up our portion of the project in what appears
to be too early to facilitate stepping right into the floor
removal that we had hoped would just dovetail into the end of
this project. Judging on the schedules that Mike showed me
for surveyors and the data that they'll then provide to Mike
that they can determine how much of the floor comes out, then
the pricing and so forth, I can see us being three weeks away
from getting an approval to proceed on the floors.
It would behoove my company to take the forces that I
have here and apply them to another job for about two weeks,
and if I did that, sealed up my chute and pulled off the job
for two weeks, I can see that I need about seven working days
to finish, whether I -- whether that's starting tomorrow or
starting upon our return, which still, if we took otf the two
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weeks, would have us completed a week ahead of the contract
schedule. If we do this, if we pull off and allow ya'all the
time to determine the floor needs, we would like to provide
pricing and the service to remove that. If we have to
remobilize and come in and take panels off because we had
chosen to complete and finish the -- the term of this
contract and then initiate a new one, I can see $5,000 of
additional cost to remove and replace and stand up the chute
and bring everything back to town. So, I -- I am proposing
to you that there is an efficiency to your benefit that we
delay our completion until you're able to determine whether
or not the floor coming up is something that you would like
us to address. And that is all without changing our contract
completion date or jeopardizing it.
If you haven't been upstairs lately, the only things
remaining are the last eight cell rooms. Of the 59 cells
that were up there, we're down to eight rooms, the ones
closest to us here, so you may be able to hear us in there
working. The temporary -- the temporary cell, like I say,
the services are -- are hooked up to it now. Deficiency in
the air conditioning that they're going to address at 8
o'clock in the morning. And then the plumbing is tied-in and
lust dead somewhere in the wall, so we'll work at that today.
I would say that if we were to pull off of the job for other
concerns and button it up, that we would be asking Mike to
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meet us out there about noon tomorrow and take a look at it
and be sure that he's in agreement that we have it safe and
clean and weather-tight, and everything operating for your
continued use until we return.
COMMI3SIONER LETZ: So what you're saying is you'd
like to -- or, I guess, approval for you to pull out tomorrow
and then come back in two weeks, basically, and finish up
after they've done the elevation work?
MR. GABEL: Yes, sir.
MR. WALKER: I don't know that you necessarily need
to approve it, but just be aware that he -- he wants to do
that. I mean, he's still got plenty of time left on his
contract to finish. So -- but, you know, he didn't want
everybody alarmed that nobody was up there working. And we
need a -- basically, I'm going to say two weeks to get the
information from Lee, figure out what we're going to do and
get him back, so the timing lust kind of worked out well
there today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, it makes sense to me.
JUDGE DENSON: Super.
MR. WALKER: The issue -- let me touch on one other
thing, the issue about the Bobcat up there on the floor, the
alternate methods. I mean, it's a moot point now, it's all
done. And that -- whatever that savings was is -- is out the
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window. It was, like, $15,000 or something. It's just not
anything to really discuss any more. He's already done it
all by hand. And so, really, we're about even right now.
There's no pluses and minuses on the scales. It's just a
contract for him to finish. And he needs, I guess, basically
three more weeks to do it; this week and two more later.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: If he pulls out for two weeks
and then comes back, will it still be the same cost?
JUDGE DENSON: Same cost, same contract.
MR. GABLE: It will be the same cost, and we'll
come back with about seven working days of work, which is --
I don't expect ya'all to be ready to -- to approve in two
weeks, you know, but I'm saying I'll take two weeks. That
will give you two weeks. That will put us at this point --
two weeks from now, you'll have information, I'll have a
little bit of work left, and hopefully things will dovetail.
30 --
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I heard $5,000.
JUDGE DENSON: No, no change. Okay, go ahead with
that. Next agenda item.
MR. WALKER: Okay. Excuse us, Larry.
MR. GABLE: Thank you.
MR. WALKER: Which is which one, please, sir?
Design development?
92
i
	JUDGE DENSON: 2:15, Consider and discuss approving
~~	
L ~ ~	sharing of fee cost of a costing consultant to perform
2	detailed cost estimating for Phase 3 of the courthouse annex
3	renovations. And who are we going to share this with, you?
a	MR. WALKER: Let me explain. Let me, if I may,
5	Judge, go back and explain. I think you may have been absent
s	and Commissioner Oehler was running the Court that day. One
~	of the questions was, you know, when are we going to be
s	finished with this? And in a -- in a method to try and
s	expedite this and work dovetail with your budgeting hearings
~~	and setup, we've sort of scratched our heads and tried to
~~	come up with a method to -- to do that. Because, quite
i2	frankly, when we told you we'd be finished by September 10th,
~,,, 13	that was back in March, and we needed that much time to
is	complete our bid documents. We got approved -- the final
~5	approval, I guess you'd say, was on May 26th. And so now
is	we're being asked to be finished by September 1st. So that
i~	-- that little squeeze is probably pushing things beyond
~s	point of safety and getting things done correctly and
is	thoroughly, and still getting the bids out and done in time
20	for you to plug the numbers into your budget. 3o what I did
2i	was tried to think of a way that we could do this, and so I
22	said, Well, what I'm obligated to give you is estimates of
23	probable cost. They're not detailed cost estimates. I'm not
2a	a contractor; we don't sit down and say this is this much and
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	that's that much, but we use prevailing costs in the area and
~"~	
L ~ 1	we give you an estimate of what the cost will be. If you
2	need tight numbers -- if you need real snug numbers to go
3	into budget with, then this is the solution that I could come
a	up with. Because, quite frankly, without -- without doing --
5	making this thing onerous on us to get the production done in
s	such a hurry -- see, I've got to get my engineers cranked up
~	and everything else. We -- we'd be much better off finishing
s	the job by the end of September, having it ready to really
s	bid, but have a good -- very good estimate of the cost so
~~	that you'd have that number to plug in. So I guess the first
~~	question is, how good an estimate do you need? Because I
i2	really don't think that -- that the bid documents and getting
13	bids in and being ready by, say, mid-September, is practical,
is	plausible. So --
~5	JUDGE DENSON: I don't know -- you know, it seems
is	like -- I'm not trying to be critical, but it seems like
i~	history repeats itself. Several times. Things -- even
is	though we know months -- months in advance where we're going,
is	things don't get there. It moves so slowly. We have to have
20	a number, not at the end of September. For budgetary
21	reasons, we need a number at the end of August --
22	MR. WALKER: Well, that's --
23	JUDGE DEN30N: -- at the very, very latest.
2a	COMMISSIONER SALDWIN: Which brings up a question
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in your -- in your note to us.
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says here, "Due to the
lateness of approvals from subdivisions of the County on the
final plan," -- which I would like for you to explain to me
what that means, and it goes on to say, "it will not be
plausible to meet the deadlines in time for County budgeting
process." That concerned me when I was reading this a couple
of days ago; that really bothered me. Lateness of approvals
from subdivisions of the County has caused us to throw us
into -- out of our budget process now. That bothers me a
lot.
JUDGE DENSON: Who are those subdivisions?
MR. WALKER: Departments. We had to get the
departments to go through it. Remember the final -- we went
through nine schematic designs. And the final --
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Are you saying that the
District Judges --
MR. WALKER: Yes. Those -- that was the basic
problems -- I mean, the Sheriff had to okay it, everybody had
to look at it and so forth. So, May 26th we got the one that
we're working off of right now, and it's -- not to be
critical or anything; these things lust take time to make
sure everybody is on the same page. And so we feel confident
that -- that, you know, we have good plans. We're still
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making refinements as we go along, but, you know, we --
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
MR. WALKER: We've got a good plan. Now, let me
talk to you about this sharing.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. Back to the cost, though.
MR. WALKER: Okay.
JUDGE DENSON: You're saying today that your cost
estimates really are -- aren't worth much?
MR. WALKER: No.
JUDGE DEN30N: That's basically, I think, what you
said.
MR. WALKER: No, our estimates are based on -- on
prevailing costs in the area. But we all know that costs are
going up right now. What -- what I -- what you do is you pay
me to do cost estimates, but they're not detailed. What I'm
suggesting is -- is that -- is that you pay me a little bit
more, or pay a little bit more, and we get detailed cost
estimates so that they are very thorough, and you can rely on
those numbers better than you can on ours, which are
essentially -- you know, we square-foot plaster and we
square-foot ceilings and things.
COMMI33IONER LETZ: Like I said, Judge --
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, this sounds like a squeeze or
something.
MR. WALKER: No, no, no. But, essentially, this is
.- II 96

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-- this is money that you would pay me anyway. All I'm
saying is I'm going to take part of what you were going to
pay me and I'm going to use it to pay a surveyor -- I mean a
cost estimator.
JUDGE DENSON: As to your cost estimating, why
don't we renegotiate your contract, about the fees zelated to
that? Because we're paying for something that we're not
really getting.
MR. WALKER: No, you're getting exactly what you
paid for, and more. My point is --
JUDGE DENSON: Who are you going to get? Who do
you suggest we use?
MR. WALKER: I have in the audience with us today
Mr. Jim Defoxe. Mr. Jim Defore has recently gone out on his
own as his own separate contractor. He was with Rhodes when
they did two or three different construction projects here;
he's very familiar with the courthouse. And, he does -- he
did the cost estimating when -- on the project before.
That's -- I guess you'd say that's his long suit. We can
consider whoever you want to consider, but he's here, he's
available, he's knowledgeable. And hopefully -- I've talked
with him, and he could plug in pretty soon and get -- start
getting us answers to our questions.
JUDGE DENSON: What kind of cost are we talking
about for getting us a cost estimate?
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MR. WALKER: None
-- I make --
I mean -- well, the 55,000 is
JUDGE DENSON: Is five -- is that where we are?
MR. WALKER: I'm sorry, I put that in a separate
transmittal; it's over on the cost estimate sheet, which is
in the demolition approval -- I mean the -- the design
development approval.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2.16.
MR. WALKER: Under other considerations. I painted
out to you in this -- I just gat this information after I
submitted the agenda item, and he has given me a cost
estimate of $5,000. Now --
JUDGE DEN3ON: The last page?
MR. WALKER: The last page of the --
JUDGE DENSON: Of the proposal.
MR. WALKER: Of the preliminary estimate of
probable cost dated July 8th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that's $5,000 that you're
paying half, we pay half; is that what you're saying?
MR. WALKER: I'd take the half out of the fee you
were going to pay me anyway, and then -- you know,
essentially, you're paying 52,500 more.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are we paying you right
now?
MR. WALKER: Well, we estimated that it would be
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about 32,500 of -- of what we were doing.
JUDGE DENSON: If he was doing it7
COMMISSIONER LET2: Yeah, if he did it. We're --
in the contract now, he's getting $2,500 for cost estimating,
and what he's proposing is that, instead of -- we'll hire a
third person to do cost estimating. His $2,500 he will pay
to that person, and we'll pay another $2,500 to that person.
MR. WALKER: Right, or you'll pay it all to me and
I'll pay him the 55,000 as an expense item. It doesn't --
either way, you know, it's -- it's an additional 32,500 to
you. Assuming that I fill up the whole fee. Remember, I'm
working on an hourly basis; it may never happen. And,
really, we're ahead of schedule if you want to look at the --
looking over the pay. But if you want to look at it, we're
considerably ahead based on where we were if you look at the
invoices that we gave you the other day. That's not part of
this package, but you probably have already acted on that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mean your fee's going to be
lower than you estimated?
MR. WALKER: If we're coming out less hourly, then
you qet savings; that's the way -- it's designed that way.
JUDGE DENSON: And, in other words, you're saying
that even though it doesn't appear that way, that we are
actually doing good?
MR. WALKER: You're doing very well, in spite of
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all outward appearances.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's important we have
a pretty good number to go in budget. If that's the way we
have do it, so move.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Wait. Are you going to make a
motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That we'll approve an
additional $2,500 to develop accurate cost estimates.
MR. WALKER: Detailed.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Cost, Mr. Defore7 Plus or
minus 2 percent?
MR. DEFORE: I will give you an honest estimate as
a general contractor. I live in the county, I pay taxes
here. I'm not going to be trying to lack it up. If somebody
else comes in -- three of them come in with higher estimates,
either I have lost contact with reality for what things cost,
or somebody's gouging you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all you can do.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand.
JUDGE DENSON: I have a motion.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: I've got a second. All right. All
in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
100
,,,
	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May I ask a question here?
~"`l	
~_ ~ i	Also in your notes, in your progress reports --
2	MR. WALKER: Yes, sir?
s	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was remaining on the
a	second floor some of the County auction and other items, and
5	you needed to get it out of the contractor's way so he can
e	move forward. Is that true this day?
~	MR. WALKER: I have not been up there this morning,
e	I cannot tell you, but it was true when I wrote that.
9	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you buy some stuff and
~~	it's still up there holding up County progress?
>>	COMMISSIONER LET2: All my stuff is gone except for
i2	the hot water heater that someone else took that I paid for.
13	COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I was supposed to have one
,,,	
is	table up there. He said he'd cut it loose, and nobody cut it
is	loose.
is	COMMI3SIONER OEHLER: I don't have a thing up
i~	there.
1e	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we need to get somebody
is	to get that stuff out of the way so we can finish? Get the
20	District Clerk's office over there to move it.
21	MS. UECKER: I've got two file cabinets still up
22	there full of papers that I have asked Maintenance four times
z3	to move down, and they're still up there, as far as I know.
2a	JUDGE DENSON: Well, their plan --
25	
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.r
	MS. DECKER: Larry Gabel's going to move them down
i	for me today.
2	JUDGE DENSON: This plan -- didn't seem like they
a	were having any problems.
a	MR. WALKER: No. But, I mean, they do need to
s	clean everything else out. The big concern with her stuff is
s	it will get wet.
~	M3. DECKER: Yeah. It's out there in the open;
s	it's got papers in it. I've asked him four times to move it.
9	JUDGE DENSON: Looks like we've taken care of all
~o	your business today.
11	MR. WALKER: Except for approval of design
12	development. I don't know which item that is; I don't have
,^ 13	an agenda.
is	COMMI33IONER LETZ: This big stack of papers you
is	gave us7
ig	MR. WALKER: Yeah. And there's supposed to be a
i~	reduced copy put in your thing, which you probably couldn't
is	read, but those are the design development plans and
is	specifications, just as a formality, because we're actually
20	already doing construction documents, 'cause we had to move
2i	on. But those are basically the design development drawings
22	through this phase, and also there's a cost estimate that
2s	goes with that.
2a	JUDGE DENSON: That's not worth anything.
25	
.-	10 2
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Your stamp is not on here.
C"`l		
t_ ~ 1	MR. WALKER:	See what it says there? Not for
2	construction until sealed.
9	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Oh.
a	MR. WALKER:	If you would like it sealed, we'll be
e	glad to seal it.	
s	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: We got in a lot of trouble
~	over not having a seal	on every dad-qum thing that was
s	presented.	
9	MR. WALKER:	Well, final drawings will definitely
~~	be sealed; I assure you of that.
~~	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Maybe we ought write a big
i2	"PRELIMINARY" across it.
,_„ 13	MR. WALKER:	Well, yeah. It says it there; it says
is	"Design Development" in	that little blurb right there.
is	That's what we would ask you to sign off on. But does
is	anybody want to -- I'm	surprised nobody wants to talk about
i~	the cost estimate.	
is	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: About what?
i9	AMR. WALKER:	The cost estimate that's in your
20	package.	
2i	JUDGE DENSON:	Yes, I've seen it.
22	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: The 2 million figure, 85
2s	thousand?	
2a	MR. WALKER:	Yes. The basic -- the main
25		
~.		103
	differences in that and what you saw before, if you use -- if
r%^~	
L_J ~	you compare the two columns there, was the work that we had
2	to add to the lower level to get to it where it could be
3	used. We had to add lighting. We're considering going ahead
a	and doing all the air conditioning. I've gone over this with
5	Jonathan and we're pretty much on the same page. But there
s	has to be a certain amount; otherwise, we're going to create
~	this giant black hole in there that's going to get all hot
s	and humid and steamy. Plus we have to have someplace to put
s	Linda while her space is being renovated. So in phase 3-B,
~o	we're going to have to move her down into that lower level,
~~	unless ya'all have a better place to put her. Something that
i2	she can --
„~ 13	MS. UECKER: What about my suggestion of leaving me
is	where I am and do that end first, and then let me move over
t5	while you're doing the library? 'Cause where I am is going
is	to be the law library.
17	MR. WALKER: Well, there's -- it's a little more
1s	complicated than that. I'll qo over it with with you, but
is	there's a shuffle problem involved. They're familiar with
20	it, 'cause they had to do the same thing. Hut, let's -- it's
21	easier to clear up the whole thing at once; otherwise, you'll
22	have dust on everything, and noise.
23	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're going to be mad.
2a	(Off-the-record discussion.)
25	
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{III I I
	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: $2,914,000, that's not a
!?mil	
L J ~	close enough estimate, huh?
z	MR. WALKER: Wouldn't we all sleep better if we
s	knew that we had some very detailed cost estimates?
a	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you would probably
5	sleep much better. I'm not suze it's going to affect the way
s	I sleep any, to be honest.
• ~	MR. WALKER: Okay.
s	MS. UECKER: I have a suggestion. Mike, whenever
s	you get this finished and you get one -- the main courtroom
~~	completely outfitted, could we leave -- could we maybe put me
~~	into the other courtroom? Wouldn't it be easier?
12	MR. WALKER: Well, no, because, see, we'd have to
,,, 13	do things like, you know, outlets and everything else
and it
,	,
is	would really be better probably -- if you're not ready to use
is	it, the courtroom, yeah, maybe so. Sut, I mean, there would
~s	be cost involved with that -- that shuffle also.
	JUDGE DENSON: Let's get back to the agenda for a
18	minute.
is	MR. WALKER: Please.
20	JUDGE DENSON: We need to approve the development
2i	documents. I move that we approve those.
22	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second.
2s	JUDGE DENSON: Further discussion?
2a	COMMISSIONER LET2: Yeah. Is this
preliminary cost
2s	
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estimate part of that?
MR. WALKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You've got parking on here for
$150,000, and we haven't -- we're not approving the parking.
MR. WALKER: Okay. That's what we need to do,
then, is change --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Take that off.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Site work and parking --
actually, you've got a total of 5179,000 -- or a hundred
seventy --
MR. WALKER: Its $180,000.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that is not approved.
MR. WALKER: Okay. Well, keep in mind, we'll have
to come up with some kind of agreed -- the site plan I send
to ADA has got to fix those parking places out there that are
not legit, so at some point I have to correct that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not $180,000.
MR. WALKER: No, no, no. No, I understand.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this entire program
includes the new office space downstairs? This drawing?
MR. WALKER: Yeah. But keep in mind, that is very
-- that is not totally finished-out office space, okay? It
15 --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that.
MR. WALKER: It is basically barely usable. It's
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usable --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Usable, but it's --
MR. WALKER: -- for the purposes intended.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And additional interior walls
will be needed?
MR. WALKER: When you get ready to put whoever's
going to be in there in there, it's not finished for that.
C0MMISSIONER LETZ: And you do have $85,000 now for
equipment and furnishings?
MR. WALKER: Yeah. Because -- the reason fox that
is that -- that Linda has chosen to build a lot of things in
there. So millwork changed, and we just sort of shuffled the
deck there a little bit, I think. But, that's -- that really
is -- is -- it's kind of a wash, really. But we have a lot
more here in built-ins than we had originally anticipated.
We just thought that would be furniture. But some of the
work stations are actually being built into it. It's the
item called Millwork Shelving-Seating, if you're looking for
that. See it?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I see that. On the air
conditioning and all that?
MR. WALKER: Yes?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: $135,000. That is for --
MR. WALKER: That doesn't include the lower level.
See, the lower level's down here, the lower portion.
107
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's another 526,000?
MR. WALKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're putting -- that entire
building will be under new air conditioning?
MR. WALKER: And this -- this floor up here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The second floor of the
building, so everything will be -- when we're done, both
buildings will have nothing more than two years old, in other
words? We did this one down here already, correct?
MR. WALKER: No, because the -- I mean, the County
Clerk and everything still have those old units. That will
still go up on top; we're not messing with those. We're lust
picking those up, reroofing, and setting them back down.
There's three units up there that handle Paula's, the County
Clerk; and the Court at Law, there's two more units that do
that. 30, not everything -- no, that's not exactly right,
but it's mostly.
C0MMI33I0NER LETZ: Okay.
MR. WALKER: Say, 75, 80 percent.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. I have a motion and second to
approve the preliminary documents, and cost -- rough cost
estimates, with the exception of those costs related to the
parking. We've got a motion and second. Further discussion?
All in favor? ,
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
~- II 108

JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And now we're through with
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you?
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir, thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: 2.17.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's me.
JUDGE DENSON: Consider and discuss setting up
employee evaluations for Commissioners' employees.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just thought it
was a good idea to try to get some of these little
housekeeping things in place before the new Court comes in in
January. And this particular form that you'll see is
something new for you. It's not the old Kerr County form
that you used. I looked around, and that just personally is
the one that I liked. It came from Comal County. It's a
little different. When you first look at it, it's kind of
scary because of all those little blocks, the numbers and
letters and all those kind of things. But the more you work
with the thing -- and the Treasurer and I have been tinkering
with it a little -- it becomes more friendly, and more -- you
get an accurate assessment. If you'd look here -- I mean,
just to get an idea of what we're doing here, across the top
is the Unsatisfactory, Needs Improvement, Acceptable,
Commendable, and Outstanding columns going down. And then
you get into the quality of work. The Judgment and Job
Knowledge, Quantity of Work, Cooperation, et cetera. So what
109
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you do is you come along and you grade them a low, a medium,
a middle, or a high in each one of those categories, in each
one of those. You take that number, you bring it on the back
page. The quality of work, you bring that number over to
here, and then you total up that score, and you see where
they land in the overall evaluation. It's a pretty accurate
deal; we've been playing with it. Below that, the rater's
comments, the one -- if I'm going to rate my employee, then I
make comments on there of why I felt like that that employee
needed improvement or why he was outstanding, et cetera, and
I sign that. And then down below, a place for the employee
to comment also, whether they agree or disagree, and they
also sign it. We have Ms. 3ovi1, we have Mr. Holekamp.
You'll have to help me here. We have --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Johnny.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Johnny Tisdale, Maintenance.
JUDGE DENSON: Leonard.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard Odom.
JUDGE DENSON: Franklin Johnston.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Franklin Johnston, and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Brenda?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, she's under contract.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, that's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, she should be under
contract. She is not.
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JUDGE DENSON: The court reporter.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right, Ms. Banik, the
court reporter. That's kind of -- and what I want to do is I
want to get these things in place, and we can do it two ways.
I'm going to do one on my own, because I'm comfortable -- I
feel comfortable that I need to evaluate the people that are
working for us. But we can do this thing as a whole Court.
I think that's what you've done in the past, as a whole
Court, evaluated the employees. And then, my only other
request is that the present files that -- it's lust been a
couple of years since ya'all evaluated them. The present
files are kept in the Commissioners' Court office. I want to
take those files and move them down to the Treasurer's office
where they belong, along with all the other personnel files
for the County system. Do you agree or disagree?
M3. NEMEC: Yes, sir. I have everybody else's
files.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What's the question
here?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good idea.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What else? So now ya'all
have your little form. You have yours in your hand. This is
exciting. So --
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Not to me. It might be to
you.
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		JUDGE DENSON: We have a question out here.
		
L ~ ~		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes?
2		MS. UECKER: I just wanted to say you might want to
3	see it --	I have done an evaluation form that I use for my
a	employees	that is very similar to that, except I have
5	expanded i	t into a lot more detail, if you want to see that.
6		COMMISSIONER BALDWZN: I would like to see it. I
7	would like	to see it. We looked at several, and this just
s	happened -	- this was my least favorite when I first saw them
s	because of	the -- you know, there's a little bit too much
~o	here to ta	ke in. But the more I look at it, the more I get
~~	into it, I	really like it.
i2		MS. UECKER: Yeah, I picked up a bunch of them from
13	around the	state and put the best that I thought was
is	together.	
is		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll take a look at it later
is	today.	
17		COMMISSIONER LETZ. Good. If we approve this, we
is	will get -	- or we can count on your -- each of us will get
is	six of the	se names, but --
20		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not looking for
21	approval.	Just kind of nod your heads and I'll get this
22	stuff toge	ther. We don't need court orders for this kind of
23	stuff.	
2a		COMMISSIONER LETZ: Approval.
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(Judge Denson, Commissioner Lackey, and
Commissioner Oehler nodded their heads.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, this is good. Ya'all
remind me of those birds in the back windows, you know,
dipping their bill in the water.
JUDGE DENSON: Speaking of birds -- speaking of
birds. Speaking of birds.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it next?
JUDGE DENSON: 2.18. Lo and behold, look what we
have on our agenda. You mentioned that a while ago, a little
earlier.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it was a prophetic
statement; I felt this prophecy thing coming on for some time
now. And -- and I'll be darned, look here.
JUDGE DENSON: 2.18, Consider and discuss accepting
donation of large birdhouse for the courthouse lawn.
Commissioner Lackey?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I've got a gentleman -- you
know him.
JUDGE DEN30N: Gary Fiscus?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Yes, that builds birdhouses.
Ne has been around looking at other courthouse squares and
things, and he wants to donate one to us up here. I thought
I was going to get a color brochure of it, but that's the
type right there that --
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	JUDGE DENSON: MC-12 is our only castle with
L ~ i	raised-in towers. Each tower contains two nest boxes. The
	
2	unit has four double- and four single-port floors. Dual rain
3	gutters on an aggregate coated roof. Roof color comes in
a	red, yellow, green, blue, or gray. Now, these -- I guess any
5	birds will get in them. I have one myself that I bought from
s	him years ago. And then I know he's got them at Gibsons;
7	they sell them. They're made out of PVC, really interesting.
e	They're ideal martin houses. Of course, the sparrows or the
s	finches will get in there too, but what you need to do is
~o	every February, before the martin scouts come out, is take
~i	the thing down, clean out all those feathers.
12	COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Well, the way they're made
.-- 13	now, you can get up there on a stepladder and the floors snap
is	out. Just take it out, you don't have to take it down.
i5	JUDGE DENSON: Anyhow, the martins like them, and
is	martins are neat birds. 3o if someone's going to give you
i~	something, you don't look a gift horse in the mouth, do you?
18	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not very often, I don't.
is	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be sure and get it put up
20	before we have the survey done.
21	JUDGE DENSON: Does that include putting it up, the
22	post?
23	COMMISSIONER LACKEY: The pole and everything.
2a	Installing and everything is about a S98 value. He wants to
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donate it for nothing.
JUDGE DENSON: Do we have a location?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: He wanted to put it out here
right by the water, that bird -- the bird fountain right
here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The birdbath.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Whatever you want to call
that thing.
JUDGE DENSON: Over here by these flowers.
COMMIS3IONER LACKEY: It will be over there by the
birdbath.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way they can get clean
before they go to bed.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Or take a bath after they get
up.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hang little towels.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Be close to the house.
COMMISSIONER LET2: Does this thing look nice? I
don't want people to say -- I know I've seen the picture
here, but PVC pipe? I just don't want something that looks
kind of --
JUDGE DEN30N: It's, like, 6-inch PVC.
COMMISSIONER LET2: It doesn't sound very
attractive to me out on a courthouse square.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, I have it at my house, and I'm
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-- I don't live like a bum.
COMMI3SIONER LACKEY: I've got three of them; I
like them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of a historic
courthouse. Just kind of -- PVC pipe doesn't sound too
historical, maybe. I mean, --
JUDGE DENSON: Well, you know, you can always --
the way I look at it is you can always --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take it down, throw it away.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. January the 1st, ya'all can
vote to get rid of it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we ought to try it.
I don't care anything about this donation-type stuff, looking
gift horses in the mouth and all that, but I'd like to see a
-- I'd like to see the martins flying around. I mean,
courthouses -- that's what courthouses are for, are for
birds. That's true. That's true. You've got your dirty
birds, but you can qo -- that's what courthouses are for,
bird-watching. You thought it was exclusive spit and
whittle. Huh-uh. Bird-watching.
JUDGE DENSON: I know that a lot of courthouses
have jailbirds.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is true. See, it never
ends.
JUDGE DEN30N: Okay. We need a motion on this to
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accept donation of birdhouse and installation. Do you want
to make that motion?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: No, I don't want to make it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we accept the
birdhouse as a donation to Kerr County Courthouse.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess I'd better second it,
'cause Jonathan and Butch don`t seem like they're interested.
JUDGE DENSON: Sounds like he's going to abstain,
and sounds like he's going to be negative, but I think --
COMMIS3IONER OEHLER: I don't know where you are.
JUDGE DENSON: I think he's coming around. I'm a
martin man, myself.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, you're a martin man?
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(Judge Denson, Commissioner Baldwin, and
Commissioner Oehler indicated affirmatively.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm opposed.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think Denson probably owns
some stock in PVC; that's what it is.
JUDGE DENSON: I think that concludes our morning
agenda, and we'll be back at 1:30, I think, if they did this
right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:30.
(The luncheon recess was taken at 11:50 a.m.)
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JUDGE DENSON: Okay. It's 1:32, the 13th of July,
'98. Per our posted agenda, we are going into Executive
Session to deal with pending and possible litigation. 3o at
this time we'll close our public meeting and go into
Executive Session.
MR. JAVORE: Let me go out there and reverse the
sign on the door.
(The open session was closed at 1:32 p.m., and an
Executive Session was held, the transcript of which
is contained in a separate document.)
JUDGE DEN30N: Okay. I make a motion we authorize
Gary Javore, counsel for the Law Enforcement Center lawsuit,
to employ a construction consultant for purposes of
accumulating costs related to litigation issues, and that Tom
Pollard be authorized to assist in accumulation of the data
that will support our claim.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Was that close?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty close.
JUDGE DENSON: All right. Any questions or
comments? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Thank you very much.
MR. JAVORE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this session over?
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JUDGE DENSON: This is, but we're going to do a
budget workshop. We'll recess the Commissioners' Court, and
then we'll have a budget workshop in 11 minutes. Okay.
(Commissioners' Court was adjourned at 2:19 p.m.)
C E R T I F I C A T E
The above and foregoing is a true and correct
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
Official Reporter of the Commissioners' Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
Dated at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of July, 1998.
Kathy n~~
Certified Shorthand Reporter
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