J f I' '1 L ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ..,., 13 1a 1s 1s n 18 19 20 21 22 23 2a zs COMMISSIONERS' COURT Special Session Thursday, July 2, 1998 11:00 a.m. Commissioners' Courtroom Kerr County Courthouse Kerrville, Texas 78028 PRESENT: ROBERT A. DENSON, County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 T. H. "BUTCH" LACKEY, Commissioner Pct. 2 BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 9 aD.t~~E.1L3O R'r''` Fled ~0 Dayot~ BILLIE G.1dEEKER Clerk County Court, Kerr County, Texas eWA1' By. ~..~ On Thursday, July 2, 1998, at 11:00 a.m., a special L. J 1 session of Commissioners' Court was held in the 2 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 3 Texas, and the following proceedings were had: a P R O C E E D I N G S 5 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. The Court will open up the s special Commissioners' Court meeting. It's Thursday, July 2, 7 1998. It is 11:00 -- about 11:05 a.m. We have a posted 8 agenda to take care of a couple matters. One is to consider s and discuss prohibition of the use of fireworks except in 10 designated areas. I put that on the agenda.' We also have a 11 separate agenda to pay bills, and I would like to take that 12 up first to get it out of the way. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move we pay the 1a indigent health care bill. 15 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 16 MS. WILLIAMS: There will be a budget amendment n required to pay these bills. 18 COMMISSIONER LACKEY: We don't have it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's from the Fund 50. 20 MS. ~ILLIAM$: Right, to take it out of the surplus 21 reserves. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In my motion, I move that we 23 -- these funds come from Fund 50, the surplus reserve funds. 2a COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I'll second it, but I sure 25 L~ 1 2 3 a s s 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1a 15 16 n 18 19 20 21 22 23 2a 25 hate to. JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Any questions, comments on this? Okay. All in favor? (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE DENSON: All right. And then I think we have another -- MS. WILLIAMS: We have two late bills. The first one is the United States Postal Service for 5920; it's the initial postage setup for the meter that is in the District Clerk's office. It was lust delivered a day ox so ago. We need a hand check so that they can get the postage on that meter so we can start using it. JUDGE DENSON: All right. Do I have a motion? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move. COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. JUDGE DEN30N: Motion and second. Further discussion or comment on this? All in favor? (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Another one? MS. WILLIAM3: The second one is to AMC Industries. It is fox sprinkler system materials fox a sprinkler system at the new law enforcement facility. They will not deliver the materials until they can pick a hand check up when the -- the supplies axe brought. We have someone who is installing it for no charge, so all we're paying for is the materials. 3 I?"~l ~..J 1 2 3 a 5 6 a 9 10 11 12 .-, 13 1a 15 16 17 18 1s 20 21 22 23 2a 25 ..~ COMMISSIONER LACKEY: How much is it7 MS. WILLIAM3: $1,169.63. COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's about a $1,500 savings. COMMISSIONER LACKEY: So move. COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. JUDGE DEN3ON: Further comments, discussion on this matter? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a question. Are these fire safety sprinklers or -- MS. WILLIAMS: No, lawn sprinklers. Lawn sprinkler system. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lawn sprinklers. JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, let me comment on that. I had a couple of discussions with the Sheriff, as well as Johnny Tisdale, the maintenance supervisor. There is a need, number one, to have a sprinkler system out there, and we do have some St. Augustine grass and some shrubs and trees and so forth. But there was a -- should I call him a gentleman? He was a person that was a guest of the County, in our hotel, that had skills on installation of sprinkler systems and all, and was very eager to go into the Swap program to work rather than spend time incarcerated. And, so, we're addressing several needs here with free -- free labor, so to speak. MS. WILLIAMS: Right. And as soon as he can get 9 ~1 L J 1 2 3 i a 5 s 8 9 10 11 12 13 1a 15 16 n 18 1s 20 21 22 23 2a 25 the materials, he will start on the sprinkler system. JUDGE DENSON: Right. Okay. All in favor? (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE DENSON: Okay, thank you. MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you. JUDGE DEN30N: Okay. As to the Consider and discuss prohibition of use of fireworks except in designated areas, I need to say a couple of things that will be probably uninteresting to most of you, but I need to explain where I'm coming from or my thinking on this. I was on vacation last week, out of my office and gone. The Commissioners had one meeting in my absence, and then I think they had a follow-up special meeting. And when I returned home, I had a number of messages -- and that was this last Sunday -- a number of messages on my telephone answering machine where citizens j were very, very concerned about fireworks being used during these real dry conditions. Monday, I called Thea, the administrative assistant, and she said that the phone has been ringing off the wall about people being very, very concerned. And so, from the house -- from my house, because of open meetings and having to post 72 hours in advance, and knowing that we had the 4th of July holiday tomorrow, I told her to go ahead and post it. This was early Monday. Thus, the posting for today's meeting. And upon my arrival at the courthouse Tuesday, not only did I answer a number of other 5 ~ calls about fireworks, I researched the law. And I noticed ~J 1 in The Mountain Sun this week that there were comments by 2 Commissioners that this matter had already been addressed. I 3 personally don't know how it was; it was never really on the a agenda. But it -- I think it's an extremely, extremely s important matter, personally. I looked at the law that gives s us the authority to implement a prohibition and to allow fireworks only in designated areas, and unfortunately, that 8 law says that action must be taken before June the 15th of a s year if you're going to prohibit the use of aerial fireworks 10 for the 4th of July. In other words, we're late. That same 11 law says you have to take action before December the 15th for 12 December fireworks season. So we're too late to take ~ 13 advantage of that law, if this Court wanted to. I certainly 14 would -- would move this Court to take advantage of it if I 15 had the ability, but the law's the law, and it's passed us 1s by. We don't have that opportunity. Something, though, as n an attorney, that I think in terms of working around problems 18 if we possibly can, we have a burn ban in effect. And I 19 might say, Jack atone, this handout that you gave us, your 20 thinking may be the same as mine. Our burn ban that we have 21 issued says that you'll be in violation of the law and 22 subject to penalty should you start a fire. And, to me, any 23 firework is the ignition of a fire. It's -- I mean, you have za to -- you have to light the fireworks and pop them or send 25 .-~ 6 L~ 1 2 3 a 5 s 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1a 1s 16 n 18 19 20 21 22 23 2a 25 them up in the air, and a fire actually starts. And I know I may be splitting hairs or being hypertechnical when I say simply striking a match and igniting a firework is a fire itself. What could come out of that, certainly, is not hypertechnical, because with our extremely dry conditions, upon hitting the ground, particularly with aerial fireworks, you're going to have some kind of small fire. Unless it hits on the concrete or asphalt; maybe the fire would be very, very small. But I would ask that the news media inform the public of my feelings, that I don't think fireworks should be used during this dry season whatsoever. However, if someone does choose to use fireworks and a fire results, whether or not there is damage to property, being at their own or a neighbor's property, I think they're in violation -- if a fire results, they're in violation of our burn ban. And I'm going to encourage the appropriate authority, being the County Attorney, to initiate any type of punitive action that's available. I'm sorry to call ya'all here or for ya'all to come and me to give the news that after I've posted an agenda, I've determined that we don't have the authority to issue that prohibition against fireworks and designate a safe area. But, as I've explained, I didn't know what the actual specifics of the law was until I looked it up Tuesday. Okay. Anyone have comments? Mr. Lindley? This is Mike Lindley. 7 G"`1 LJ r~ 1 2 3 a 5 s 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1s n 18 1s 20 21 22 23 2a 25 MR. LINDLEY: If we're past -- I understand we're past the June 15th deadline, but can we still, as a County, designate a safe area that if people plan to do that, we request or we invite or we offer them an area that is controlled or someplace that's in the city or county where we've got readily available fire equipment? I'm just saying that may give somebody an option out in the county someplace, if they know there's a place they can go to that's safe, they'll do that instead of going out in their back yard and setting their property on fire. Is that a possibility that the County could offer them? JUDGE DENSON: I think that's a reasonable request. MR. LINDLEY: Like the City park or -- or wherever. JUDGE DENSON: Well, our -- and I believe I read this in the paper also, that one of the Commissioners acknowledged that the Ag Barn, or the Youth Exhibition Center, is going to be actually used for 9th of July functions all day Saturday and on into Saturday night. But Sunday or Friday, I would certainly be willing to see if we can have -- have it monitored and make those fields out there available. What do ya'all think? COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not sure that's a safe place. COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Me either. That grass hasn't be mowed out there and -- S f"'`~ L J .-.. 1 2 3 a 5 6 7 8 s 10 11 12 I 13 1a 15 1s 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2a 25 JUDGE DENSON: But it's safer than, i think -- MR. LINDLEY: The point is just having a place that you can monitor, is my concern, you know, instead of having fires in five or six different areas of the county. Lesser of evils, I would think. I don't know. Now, maybe -- maybe it will rain 3 inches Friday night, you know. JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, that's what all of our hopes are, and there is a forecast for a chance of rain. COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I might could go along with down in the park next to Flat Rock Lake. I mean, that might be an area that might be about as safe as you're going to get. There aren't any plowed fields that I know of this time of year on private property that we could just designate as a safe area. You know, down by the lake there's not a whole lot of things that can be hurt down there. I believe the grass is fairly green. We'd have to wait right close by. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who would you get to monitor it? COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's the question that I'd have. Who's going to monitor that and who's going to be on call to put out any fires that were to start as a result of shooting fireworks? JUDGE DEN30N: What district is that in7 As far as voluntary -- COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Mine. 9 f~l LJ 1 2 3 a 5 s a 9 10 11 12 13 1a 15 16 n 18 1s 20 21 22 23 2a 25 JUDGE DENSON: Do you have any comments? COMMISSIONER LACKEY: No, I don't. You know, this is getting off of it a little bit, but we had a fire down in Center Point day before yesterday evening on Spanish Oak, and if the guys hadn't got there when they did, that thing was really going to get out of hand. And the Deputy Sheriff come down there, told the guy, "You're not supposed to be burning, you shouldn't be burning," and drove off. I thought we was going to give tickets these people for doing things like that. What good does it do to tell them not to it7 JUDGE DENSON: Well, I think you're asking for conjecture on my part, but I think if law enforcement chooses to regulate that -- COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Yeah, I know. That's the same way with fireworks. If their fire gets out, all they're going to do is lust tell them they shouldn't be shooting off fireworks; that's all there is to it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, to answer one of yours questions in the front end of your comments, how -- how we had discussed the issue without an agenda item, I said -- I also have had a lot of phone calls and concerns. Mike -- Mike's about to drive me nuts, as a matter of fact, and some other folks. So I brought it in under a report, Commissioners' report, informational item only. And these guys know that there's some concerns out there about the II to '` thing, and if they -- you know, anybody felt like that we ~ ~ L 1 J needed to discuss it in detail, for them to set up a future 2 meeting this week. 3 JUDGE DENSON: What I'm -- a MR. LINDLEY: Buster, hadn't you talked to the 5 people down in San Antonio? Hadn't they moved -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they're doing this thing hand-in-hand -- 8 MR. LINDLEY: They've already banned the area? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, they've already done 1a it. Sut they are -- they have areas where they can do it. I 11 can't think of one area where -- the Ag Barn is the only 12 place that I can think of that the County owns that has open 13 ""' area, but you have -- the Women's Division has this thing 14 locked up, and they are -- they're probably out there today 15 cleaning the place up, slicking it up, and then we're going 16 to turn the public loose on it. I mean, I don't know that n that's fair. I don't know that's it's the right thing. I 18 think we're a day behind. It's our fault for for not getting 19 out in front of this thing months ago and taking care of 20 this, I understand that. But it's lust that, you know, those 21 things happen. 22 JUDGE DENSON: Well, I don't think it's too late to 23 do something. But the comment I'm talking about is that that 2a meeting had already taken place. We shouldn't be having this 25 i^-~ 11 I%"1 L~ 1 2 3 4 5 s 8 s 10 11 12 13 1a 15 1s 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2a 25 meeting, that a decision had already been made. And it struck me as very, very interesting that a decision had been made without it being a posted matter. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, it wasn't a decision. Well, a decision was made. We sat here and visited -- if we're going to keep bringing this up, that's fine. We sat here and visited, said, "Guys, do ya'all want to have a meeting later on to discuss this further in an official capacity?" "No, I think that it's probably too late to deal with this thing." It was over. That's the decision we made. JUDGE DENSON: Well, as I said, I think that the matter can be addressed effectively by the burn ban. If -- if the use of fireworks starts a fire, rather than simply there be no punitive -- or no remedy except for civil damages, which I also read in the paper. Civil damages aren't always available if someone starts a fire and doesn't have the ability to pay. We should have addressed this back some time ago. However, I will say that maybe all of us qot a little lax after receiving that rain in early June. I know we relaxed the burn ban for a period of time, and then I think reimplemented it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. JUDGE DENSON: Sure, go ahead. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we did -- I assume this 12 1 2 3 a s s 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1a 15 16 n 18 19 20 21 22 23 za 25 is the burn ban resolution? JUDGE DENSON: Right, that you -- you had, Jack? MR. STONE: Yeah. COMMISSIONER HALDWIN: Yeah. And to add -- he added there -- you see where it's double-underlined, "declaration of such a disaster authorizes the imposition of controls on activities." We probably wouldn't have to add anything; it just sounds like, to me, "activities" covers it. But if we were to add the verbiage such as "fireworks", et cetera, however you want to do it, if we did something like that today, would it be in effect for this weekend? Is that the right thing to do7 JUDGE DENSON: Well, I'm -- I agree with what you're saying, that we don't need to put in the language. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's already there. JUDGE DENSON: Yes. MR. LINDLEY: Well, and to the point we've already talked to the media, if they could address the deal that we're going to have some public shows that will be monitored and have the fire equipment and so on, emphasize that if people want to take part in it, to come to that and don't do the private fireworks, because they're going to -- people are going to be watching. The volunteer fire departments and the local authorities and so on won't be tolerating it if people aren't responsible in doing their -- you know, having their 13 r~ individual fireworks displays. L~ 1 JUDGE DENSON: The language that Commissioner 2 Baldwin was talking about that Jack atone, a resident, has 3 brought to our attention, it's in our resolution in the burn a ban. It says, "Whereas declaration of such a disaster 5 authorizes the imposition of controls on activities which s tend to increase the likelihood of fire." Yes, sir? 7 MR. STONE: I certainly agree with you all; that 8 should include fireworks without adding it in there. But in s the paper last week, there were specific -- I think Glen 10 Brown or somebody wrote that the burn ban does not cover 11 fireworks. You could ban aerial fireworks, but that's all. 12 And that's the impression the county -- that I had, and the 13 county's got it now, and all you need is to get the paper to 1a stress that the burn ban includes fireworks as well as 15 burning trash or bush or brush or whatever. The impression 16 now, I think, is that burn ban doesn't cover fireworks in the 17 county. 18 JUDGE DENSON: Again -- 19 MR. STONE: If my house burns and somebody's fined 20 $1,000, I don't feel a lot better about my house burning. 21 But I think that if the public's perception were that there's 22 a ban on fireworks, I'm sure that would go a long way. 23 JUDGE DENSON: I don't think we have the authority 2a -- legal authority to simply say we ban fireworks. The only 25 .-. 19 L J 1 2 3 a 5 s 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1a 15 16 n 18 1s 20 21 22 23 2a 25 express authority that the law gives us is set out in that statute that I made reference to, and it's Section 290.909 of the Texas Local Government Code. That addresses the use of certain fireworks, being aerial fireworks. And in order for the Commissioners' Court to prohibit their use, we have to designate a safe area and we have to do all this before the 15th of June. See, Texas law limits counties from restricting people from doing things with their property or other activities. Cities, such as the City of Kerrville, has already banned the use of all fireworks. Commissioners' Court, we don't have that kind of authority. We have the authority only where we can find it expressly set out in the law, and it gives us only limited authority to curtail the use of fireworks. But I'm saying -- and it's only a legal argument -- that if someone ignites a firework and that creates a fire, that they are, in fact, in violation of our burn ban and they are subject to the penalties for starting a fire in our burn ban. So start -- you know, pop a firework at your own risk. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aerial only. Then you get back to Mr. Lackey's concern, which is a real concern that this is all moot and no reason to go through -- waste all these people's time if they're not going to enforce it -- or if it's not going to be enforced; not that we are enforcing. JUDGE DENSON: Well, Mike, to try and address your 15 r'"~1 LJ 1 2 3 a 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 1a 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 2a 25 question, I don't know how we can designate an area. MR. LINDLEY: Yeah. It's a little late, I understand that. I'm just saying it seems to me it would be easier to monitor one area than to try and monitor the whole county. JUDGE DENSON: I think hopefully the meeting -- hopefully our discussions today will do some good. MR. LINDLEY: Yeah. JUDGE DENSON: Yes, Ms. Nemec? MS. NEMEC: Judge, on behalf of the Women's Division, my question is, since the Women's Division is going to be authorized to have fireworks out at the Ag Barn, and that is in the county, does that mean that anyone who goes there is going to be able to set off fireworks also? JUDGE DENSON: No. MS. NEMEC: No, they will not be allowed? JUDGE DENSON: Ya'all are in control of that. There's an organized fireworks display? MS. NEMEC: Right. JUDGE DENSON: And I assume that ya'all have -- I know law enforcement's going to be out there. It's not going to be some random isolated acts out in the county of some burned up fields. But I'm confident that we can control anything that might happen out there as far as the -- MS. NEMEC: So individuals that go in with their 16 ~ own fireworks, we would be able to tell them that they cannot L ~ 1 set off fireworks in the Aq Barn? 2 JUDGE DENSON: Yes. Yes. I think law enforcement 3 will address that as far as controlling the crowd and making a sure no one gets hurt out there. Okay. Anything further on 5 this subject? I thank all of you for coming. I appreciate s it very, very much. And the non-media people, I underscore that and thank you for coming. There's been a lot of calls. 8 Thea told me this morning that she had -- this was early. 9 When I came in at 9 o'clock, she had had 19 calls, 'cause 10 people had picked this up in the newspaper. "Please issue a 11 ban." And I know I had numerous calls before, approximately 12 10 or so in the last couple of days. So there are people out ,..., 13 there that are extremely concerned, and I think we all should 14 be concerned. Pray for rain. Thank you. We're adjourned. 15 (Commissioners' Court was adjourned at 11:30 a.m.) 16 n 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 !.. 17 P'~l LJ 1 2 3 a 5 6 7 8 s 10 11 12 13 14 16 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 C E R T I F I C A T E The above and foregoing is a true and complete transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as Official Reporter of the Commissioners' Court of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. Dated at Kerrville, Texas, this 6th day of July, 1998. ~ ~~ Kathy B ik Certified Shorthand Reporter 18