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8	COMMISSIONERS COURT
9	Regular Session
10	November 9, 1998
11	9:00 a.m.
12	Commissioners Courtroom
13	Kerr County Courthouse
lq	Kerrville, Texas 78028
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23	PRESENT: ROBERT A. DENSON, County Judge
	H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
29	T. H. "BUTCH" LACKEY, Commissioner Pct. 2
	JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
25	j BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
	
	Fd~d~„Bayef~A.D.1~S i1ME_
	BIWE G. MEEKER
	dark County Court, Kerr County, Teucee

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I N D E X
MORNING SESSION
PAGE
1.1 Pay Bills
1.2 Budget Amendments
1.3 Late Bills
1.4 Read and Approve Minutes
1.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports
2.1 Spring Creek Ranch Road District
2.9 Contract between County & Laurinda Boyd
2.8 U.S. Pony Clubs - charge for use of Ag Barn
2.2 Emergency repairs - Cummings Lane
2.3 Interlocal Agreement - Llano County prisoners
2.4 Sheriff's Dept. - go out for bids on 2 vehicles
2.5 Possible computer problems - Year 2000
2.6 Open sealed bids for used Gradeall
2.7 Public Hearing
Replat of Lots 91, 92, 93, 94, 95 & 112 in
Falling Water subdivision, final approval
2.10 Hire consultant - oversee Phase III construction
2.11 Contract between County & Office of Court
Administration (Presiding Judge)
2.12 Telecommunications equipment lease between
County ~ Kerrville Telephone Business Systems
2.13 Contract between County & Volunteer Fire Depts.
2.14 Agreements between City of Kerrville & County
for use of Hotel Occupancy Tax Revenues
2.15 Rental of office space from City of Ingram -
possible satellite Tax Office
2.16 Appointment to Kerr Emergency 911 Board
2.17 Final payment for Phase II (demolition)
AFTERNOON SESSION
2.6 Accept bid for used Gradeall
-- Informational - Christmas Lighting project
Reporter's Certificate
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On Monday, November 9, 1998, at approximately 9:00 a.m.,
a regular session of Commissioners Court was held in the
Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville,
Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE DENSON: Good morning. It's Monday, November
the 9th, 1998. It is 9 o'clock, or a minute or two after.
Before we get into our business, we'll have an invocation and
a pledge of allegiance. Commissioner Oehler will lead us in
prayer this morning. If you'll please stand.
(Invocation and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE DENSON: Thank you very much. Commissioner
Baldwin, we need to pay bills, don't we?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We sure do. And I move we
do so.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I've got a question.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, I've got a motion, I have a
second, and now I have a question.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: We still haven't done
anything about hauling these bodies to and from Austin. I
know we have two of them on here this morning. Both of them
are for $208 each.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Take me there. What page
are you on?
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COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second page.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 2.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I thought we were going out-
fox bids on these from these people on this here. We haven't
done that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know we've talked about it
three or four times. I talked to Mr. Overby, 'cause I just
happened to bump into him one day, asked him how he -- how he
charged. I think it's, like -- it just goes, you know, 5100
to Austin and 5100 back is basically what they do.
MR. TOMLINSON: I think one problem is
availability. If you have -- if you have one person that
does that, then you'd be tied to that person. I think there's
-- from what I hear the J.P.'s say, that they have -- you
know, .when they need somebody, they need somebody right then.
And that would -- that could be a problem.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could we do what Road and
Bridge does, where they get a number of -- accept all the
bids and they go first, second, and third, based on price?
Same as they do with contractors; that we have several
contractors, but we use the cheapest one first if we can, if
they`re available, and then we go to the second. At least
they have a price that maybe would be some reduction.
MR. TOMLINSON: We could do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably won't save a lot. It
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1 might save something, yo u. know, as many bodies as have to go
2 to Austin. That's probably the -- that way, we'd be able to
3 hopefully get a lower price and, of course, be able to use
4 all the -- all the people that do transport.
5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to do something like
6 that, or Mr. Lackey's going to drive us all to drinking.
7 COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Better leave that alone.
8 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Anything further on bills?
9 And, your motion, Commissioner Baldwin, is inclusive of --
10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Indigent health care, yes,
11 sir.
12 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Further questions? Comments?
13 All in favor?
14 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
15 JUDGE DENSON: Budget amendments?
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16 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one -- actually, two.
17 Number 1 is for the Department of Public Safety. They --
18 they had actually requested an additional 5150 from
19I Miscellaneous to recalibrate their tint meters that DPS
20 officers use, and so they're requesting 5150 from
21 Commissioners Court Contingency be placed in their
22~ Miscellaneous line item to do that.
23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What you're saying is that
29~ they did request it in the -- in the budget process, and for
25'~ some reason it never made it through this room?
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MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I'm not sure what happened to
it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: But it didn't happen, so they need
the money to do that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To recertify their tent
meters.
MR. TOMLILNSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we know what that is?
MR. TOMLINSON: They gauge tint on windows.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, tint.
MR. TOMLINSON: On automobiles. And, apparently,
there's a fine for -- fox tint that's too dark, and they use
this for that purpose.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wonder how much revenue we
get, you know, to ever offset the cost of these meters.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- I'm in favor of doing
this, but I -- this next budget year, I really wanted to sit
down and have a visit about that. We provide a secretary for
them so they don't have to do the paperwork; I mean, they can
get out on the streets and make people comply with the law.
We provide radar units and light bars, and all of a sudden
we're funding a State agency, you know. And I lust want to
have a visit about that at some point. I'm a big fan of
these guys, but --
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MR. TOMLINSON: We actually purchased those tint
meters at one time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we purchased radar units
that never make it back in here. So, anyway -- okay. Well,
I move that we approve -- the money comes out of Contingency?
-- the County Commissioners Court Contingency fund.
MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $150.
JUDGE DENSON: That's your motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I'll second it, with a
comment.
JUDGE DENSON: Might as well add one more.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I believe that the
Texas Highway -- or Highway Patrol also bring in a fair
amount of revenue every year, somewhere between $900,000 and
$500,000 a year in fines. It also helps subsidize our
budget, and we give very little in comparison to see that
that happens. That's my comment.
JUDGE DENSON: And a very nice one. Okay, all in
favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: We have one more.
MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is to transfer the amount
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1 of the indigent health care bills from the General Fund to
2 the Indigent Health Care Fund.
3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain why we're doing
4 this? I mean, I don't recall doing --
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MR. TOMLINSON: We don't have cash in the Indigent
Health Care Fund because we haven't collected any taxes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, you told me that last
time I asked that question. So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Further questions? Comments? All
in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
MR. TOMLINSON: That's it.
JUDGE DENSON: Late bills?
MR. TOMLINSON: Actually, I have two. One, we'll
have to wait until Mike Walker comes in. But the first one
is to pay the election workers, and I have an amount here for
election workers. It was 8,000 -- I'm sorry, $5,870.40, and
rental for $82. And, what -- what we can do is -- is make
those payments through our Accounts Payable system on the
12th. Otherwise, we'll have to wait until the next
Commissioners Court meeting to pay these bills.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, this is lust a late
bill; otherwise, it would run through regular system?
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Further questions? Comments?
9 All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
g JUDGE DENSON: Let's see. Read and approve
7 minutes? I need a motion to waive reading and approve.
g COMMISSIONER LACKEY: So move.
9 JUDGE DENSON: So moved, Commissioner Lackey.
10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
11 JUDGE DENSON: And a second, Commissioner Letz.
12 Further questions, comments on that subject? All in favor?
13 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
lq JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Approve and accept monthly
15 reports.
16 COMMISSIONER LACKEY: So move.
1'7 JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion.
lg COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
1g JUDGE DENSON: And got a second. Questions?
20d Comments on this? All in favor?
21 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
22 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. We might note, just for
23 informational purposes, that we do have a meeting scheduled
24 for 1:30 tomorrow afternoon for purposes of canvassing the
25 election returns, per the Election Code, as a requirement.
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The County Clerk will be .assisting the Court on that. And,
Commissioners, we need, I think, at least two of us here to
do that, so I ask that all of you be present, if possible..
But we certainly have to do this to confirm the results of
the recent election.
And, while we're that subject -- we should have
mentioned this earlier -- that I notice that the Daily Times
had a little accolade or a little toast or whatever about the
candidates. And we all should be grateful for all the
candidates, be it Republican, Democrat, Independent,
whomever. But, the people that have the -- the energy and
and. the actual courage and the -- the effort that they're
willing to put into running for a public office, all those
people need to be applauded, I think, and we need to thank
them, .each and every one, when we see them, regardless of
whether they were successful in their particular race.
I think that's what makes the system work, is having
these people that have that -- that type of energy, that type
of courage, to run for public office. And, it's not an easy
task, the campaign, itself, regardless of whether you --
you're successful or not. So, anyhow, those of you that are
present, thank you vex y, very much. And those who are not,
the thanks are just as sincere for them.
Okay, top of the agenda, 2.1. Consider election results
for Spring Creek Ranch (Witt Road) road district, and
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establish same. County Engineer, Mr. Franklin Johnston.
MR. TISDALE: I think Truby has the information on
that.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Ms. Hardin, good morning.
MS. HARDIN: Good morning. Is this what y'all have
in your packets? We mailed out 22 ballots. Two were
returned undeliverable. 18 were returned with a yes, so the
road district passed with 100 percent of yes votes. The
homeowners are here, I think, with a check for you.
MRS. PENA: I would lust like to say, on behalf of
same very, very happy property owners at Spring Creek Ranch,
that we have met your fund-raising goal, and I have with me
this morning a check in the amount of 510,000 made out to
Kerr County from us, and with our gratitude for you working
with us to solve these problems. And, if I could lust also
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say, I'd like to say a special thanks to Truby Hardin of the
Road and Bridge Department, because she has been an
invaluable assistant, offering advice every step of the way
to 'help us when we didn't know what to do next. And she's a
great example of a County employee.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear.
MR. PENA: And, shall I lust give this to Barbara
Nemec?
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, please.
MRS. PENA: Or do you want to see it? It's real.
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Anyway, thanks very, very much.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank y'all very, very much.
And, Truby, thank you.
MS. HARDIN: Yeah. The next step is that y'all
order us to do the work. And, the sheet that Franklin just
gave y'all is what we would like to have on the Court order,
if possible.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. It's entitled "Spring Creek
Ranch Road District." It's 2.95 miles of roadway, which
would include Witt Road, Silver Creek Road, and Balsley Road.
Road and Bridge will reconstruct in three phases: Witt Road
to top of the hill the first year, the remainder of Witt Road
the second year, and the side roads, with the exception of
Dry Creek Road, in the third year. And Dry Creek Road is not
included in the Siring Creek Ranch Road District. Okay. You
need an order to that effect?
MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: What's expressed on the handout?
MS. HARDIN: Right.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY:
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
JUDGE DENSON: I got
Further questions? Comments on
get a little bit more money out
So moved.
Second.
s motion and a second.
this? You want to try and
of them? Okay. All in
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favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Ms. Pena, thank you very much for
your efforts. I know it's -- you've been very persistent
coming to the Court, and I say that in laudatory terms. I'm
not critical at all.
7 MRS. PENA: Thank you.
g JUDGE DENSON: Because it's taken an effort on your
9 part, where -- I don't know if there were other leaders out
10 there that would have taken on the task like you have, and
11 it's resulted in success, and you're going to get those roads
12 done, which, of course, is what you were all after to begin
13 with. So, thank you and the other property owners.
lq (Off-the-record discussion.)
15 JUDGE DENSON: Commissioner Letz tells me that we
16 need to take one item out of order, Ms. Boyd. This is 2.9,
17 consider and discuss approving contract between Kerr County
18I and Lauxinda Boyd to act as booking agent at the Ag Barn
191 facilities and authorize County Judge to sign same.
20 Commissioner Letz?
21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is lust the -- I guess we
22; finally got a contract written, and Laurinda was out for a
23I while. We lust delayed it till she got back. Tom Pollard
29 prepared it; which it sets out the agreement that we agreed
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Laurinda's also handed out the calendars for this year -- or
next year, as to what are the requirements of the contract,
and I think it's a lot -- you know, it's a lot more explicit
contract and explains exactly what we expect and what the
responsibilities are. That's what my comments are.
Laurinda, do you have any comments?
MS. BOYD: No.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the contract
and authorize County Judge to sign same.
JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: And a second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question.
JUDGE DENSON: Got a question.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great contract, fifty times
better than what we've been doing. I have one question,
though. On the first page under the agreements, number one,
"Develop and provide to the Kerr County Commissioners Court
for approval a written fee schedule" -- tee schedule -- "and
a written policy and procedures of the facility, which shall
be submitted to the said Commissioners Court no later than
November 1, 1998."
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Laurinda's been out for the
last six weeks.
MS. HOYD: I lust came back officially on
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Wednesday, and I haven`t had a chance to sit down and meet
with Glenn and Mike at the barn. We're going to sit down
together and discuss some things that we would like to do,
and I will have that by December the 1st, but 1 officially --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: By when?
6 MS. BOYD: December 1st, if that's all right with
7 you. I just got back to work officially Wednesday.
8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: December 1, 1998. Okay,
9 that's all I have. It's a great contract.
10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
11 MS. BOYD: Judge, could we also do 2.8 real quick,
12 before --
13 JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, let's --
19 MS. BOYD: Since Mr. Thompson's here, if that would
15 be okay?
16I JUDGE DENSON: Okay, let's finish 2 9. I think I
17 have a motion and a second. Further questions, comments on
18 this subject? All in favor?
191 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
20 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And 2.8, consider and discuss
21I qualifying the youth organization, Rio Grande Region, United
22 States Pony Clubs, Inc., as exempt to enable the Pony Club to
23~ use the Ag Barn facilities. This was put on the agenda by
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24, Commissioner, Precinct 4, Bruce Oehler, and Mr. Richard
25; Thompson. Bruce, you want to take it?
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I can start it, but
Richard can go ahead and make his presentation. They
contacted me and asked if they could be -- if they could use
9 the facility with the -- you know, having it -- just
basically paying the maintenance or the -- not the
6 maintenance, but the -- the deposit-type arrangements like
7 we have with a lot of other groups, youth groups. And I told
8 them in order to get that -- Laurinda had evidently told them
9 they could not do it, and so I told them to put it on the
10 agenda, to get the Court's feeling of how it would be, 'cause
11 I could not give that that permission solely, independently
12 of .the Court. So, I guess Mr. Thompson can make his
13 presentation to the Court.
19 JUDGE DENSON: Mr. Thompson?
15 MR. TOMLINSON: Thank you, sir. Commissioners, I
16 want to say, to begin with, that we in the Pony Club have --
17 have enjoyed what relationship we've had with -- with the Ag
18 Barn. But what my understanding is, that it's -- your group
19~ is the one who makes the determination that we are a
20 qualified youth organization, and so we're trying to do this
21 proper so that no one is -- is bending any rule. The United
22 States Pony Club, in my letter to you, I've said was
23~ established in 1959. It's a youth organization. Within the
24, rules of the United States Pony Club, when a child is --
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reach 21, so the national organization does not permit anyone
over that age.
It's an organization which teaches mounted sports. A
9 lot of the things that we do lead to the equestrian sports.
In the last 10 or 12 Olympic games, more than 50 percent of
6 the United States Equestrian Team are -- have been in Pony
Club at one point or another. At any -- I don't know if this
8 is -- I mean, you have before you the letter from the
9 national organization stating we have qualified under
10 Internal Revenue's code as a 501(c)(3), which is a nonprofit
11 educational organization. We are a youth organization. I --
12 I said at one time, I will be glad -- this is the national
13 organization's quarterly publication. We -- our official
19 magazine is the Chronicle of the Horse, a respected
15 equestrian magazine.
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16 Is there any question that anybody has in what we're
17~~ trying to do?
18		JUDGE DENSON: Well, I have	a couple questions. So
19	the Commissioners can be conscious of	exactly what decision
20	they're	making, what kind of dollars	are we waiving a fee?
21		COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're	going to waive the
22	rental,	basically. I believe it will	-- they'll be paying a
23	reduced	amount for the clean-up and -	-
24		~LiDGE DENSON: Can we be sp	ecific?
25	i	MS. BOYD: Yeah, I can.	
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JUDGE DENSON: .Okay.
MS. BOYD: Well, because they utilize the indoor
3 arena, you're talking about three days of -- I believe Sally
and I had been discussing this while while I was out at home.
It's probably about $800, by the time you add up all the use
of all the facility. If it was a normal charge-out, the use
7 of Exhibit Hall for the rifle shoot, the indoor arena, two
8 days of that; that's $300 a day, so you probably would get to
9 about $800.
10 JUDGE DENSON: $800, and that`s what?
11 MS. BOYD: In fees.
12 JUDGE DENSON: We're being asked to waive --
13 MS. BOYD: Normal fees.
14 JUDGE DENSON: And we're being asked to waive those
15 fees?.
16 MS. BOYD: Yes, sir.
17 JUDGE DENSON: Approximately $800. Is this once a
18 year?
19 MS. BOYD: And I'm 'lust throwing that out. Yeah,
20 they utilized it last year. And, I guess my concern is --
21 and I can address it after you're through asking your
22 questions or whatever, but --
23 JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
24 MS. BOYD: Because, you know, I think that it needs
25 to b~e clarified. This summer, for instance, I have three
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youth -- I mean, qualified as youth groups, that are not in
2 town, you know. Yes, there will be some local kids involved,
3 but it's a State group. The Junior Brahman Association is
4 going to have a show, the Junior Brangus is going to have a
5 show, Junior Red Brangus is going to have a show. So, I
6 guess my question is, is my understanding on the -- the youth
7 organization use, whether it was a County group -- entity,
8 you know, and we do -- the Boy Scouts have utilized it and
9 stuff. And I think that's where I've wanted to find whether
10 -- are we talking about any youth organization? If not -- if
11 so, then we kind of got a --
12 JUDGE DENSON: No, we're talking about this Pony
13 Club.
lq		MS. BOYD: Yes.		
15		JUDGE DENSON:	Today.	For lack of -- you know, I
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16		abbreviated their name.		
1'7		MS. BOYD: But	it is a	national organization,
18		right?		
19		MR. THOMPSON:	Yes, it's a national organization.
20		We have member clubs. Th	ere's --	the Hill Country Pony Club
21		is the local Pony Club.	When it	-- when it held its event
22		last time, the event that	it may	-- may hold again here,
23		there would be the local	Pony Club and there would be
29		children from Boerne and	Austin,	maybe as far away as Houston
25		area, and so forth. The	South Texas -- the Rio Grande Region
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is south Texas from E1 Paso to the Houston area. There will
be -- the things that -- that this club puts on here are not
only for our kids here, but -- but a lot of times for the
region, and there may be other things which we would do which
would be solely the children in our club. But --
JUDGE DENSON: Let me ask my question again. Are
we talking about a 3-day event once a year?
MS. BOYD: Basically, I believe that's what they're
9 wanting.
10 JUDGE DENSON: Or multiple occasions? It's just
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that one time?
MS. BOYD: So far, that's all they've asked for use
of is just once a year.
JUDGE DENSON: And we're talking about 5800?
MS. BOYD: Mm-hmm.
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JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Next question is, does the
club, itself, charge admission to these participants?
MR. THOMPSON: The club charges only the fees that
cover the attendance cost. Now, when we're talking about
using the Ag Barn, we don't use the Ag Barn for free, and did
not the last time. We paid -- $15 a stall? $10 a stall per
night. We paid a clean-up fee and so forth, the same as you
guys are charging the 9-H or the F.F.A.; is that not correct?
MS. BOYD: 9-H and F.F.A. does not pay those fees.
MR. THOMPSON: They don't pay anything?
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MS. BOYD: They do their own clean-up and they do
-- you know. But that's, you know, been because that -- the
4-H program is a County-funded program.
MR. THOMPSON: Okay. We've -- we paid some of the
fees. We'd just like to be on an equal footing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To my -- I mean, you're clearly
different than 9-H and the purely County youth organizations,
and that's what -- you know, in my mind, that facility has
been no charge for any totally Kerr County -- I'm not talking
about a few people in Gillespie County, Bandera County, but
you're talking about State-wide events. That's different
from a Kerr County group like 4-H, to me.
MRS. THOMPSON: I feel like --
JUDGE DENSON: Excuse me, ma'am. If you'd please
identify yourself before you speak?
r
MRS. THOMPSON: Yes, sir. I'm Sally Thompson.
I've been speaking with Laurinda. This is my husband,
Richard. I feel -- the reason I feel that it is on equal
grounds with 4-H is that we start as a local organization.
We have 20 members right now. Simply the same status would
grant us the ability to grow to the point that 4-H and F.F.A.
have been able to grow in this part of the country. Up in
Pennsylvania, and out on the west coast, Pony Club is
considered equal to 9-H and F.F.A. We do not require County
funding. We do not require government assistance. We do
21
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everything on our own fundraising and on our own. We're
simply asking for equal footing on the status that, you know,
the children -- we're helping children learn how how to deal
with animals and responsibility of maintaining their
resources that require -- that are required by the use of
these animals. This can only help our community. It's not a
matter of taking something for nothing here. We're trying to
put something back into the community from a different angle.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many attendees are likely
to come to this event?
MRS. THOMPSON: Last year at the Regional rally --
and. I'd like to compare that to the District 9-H Club show --
we had 11 teams. There are five members per each team. It's
a small organization right now in this part of the state, but
I'd like to see it grow, and I think with some government
help in this way -- I'm not asking for any more than equal
footing -- we can get a lot more.
MS. BOYD: And what they do and everything is
wonderful. They do a wonderful job, and the kids are, you
know, so self-sufficient. I mean, there is no debate that it
is not a wonderful thing they're doing, and they left the
facility spotless.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, let's agree that their purpose
in what they're doing, the program, is a good cause. No
question about it. I think we're trying to decide whether
22

1 this is oriented to Kerr .County, the purpose is for Kerr
2 County and to the benefit of Kerr County, or not. And I, for
3 one, at this point am in agreement with Commissioğer Letz,
9 that when you start talking about state-wide, this is far
5 different than our local 9-H. Okay? Of these 11 teams, five
6 each, how many of those teams are Kerr County teams?
7 MRS. THOMPSON: We scrambled our members so that
8 more members from other clubs could come in, and so we had
9 participants on three different teams. We had kids from our
10 club mix up with other kids so that they could come in from
11 other areas. The -- the benefit there is that the kids get
12 to meet other children, working -- they work as a teem. Five
13 kids; four of them have horses, one of them doesn't. And
14 they are supposed to be self-sufficient as a team, no
15 parental involvement at all. Parents are allowed to unload
16 heavy objects the kids can't lift, and beyond that, the kids
17 have to do it all. And, so, by working together with someone
18 that they don't know and being judged upon how well they work
19~ together, they form bonds that can only help people learning
20 about our area.
21I JUDGE DENSON: I think Laurinda raised an important
22 question or a concern when she started talking about the
23~ other organizations around. I don't think that we're in a
24~ position -- and I'm still not saying that I vote against what
25'~ you're asking for. I'm having trouble with it, though. If
t 23
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1 you have any 501(c)(3) organization out there that simply is
2 qualified through IRS rules to be nonexempt, to say that that
3 should put them on equal footing with our local 9-H, that's
9 wrong. And if we give you this classification or waive these
5 expenses, are we opening the door? Are we setting a
6 precedent for many of these other organizations that are out
7 there, as soon as they read this in the paper? And it's The
8 Mountain Sun, it looks like, this week.
9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Kerrville Mountain Sun.
10 JUDGE DENSON: When they come, can we deny them?
11 MRS. THOMPSON: Perhaps if you base it on the fact
12 that we are a local organization, a local chapter, member of
13 the national organization, which is not just some named up
19 group, I think you'll be saying that you're helping the
15 bigger picture. We are the Hill Country Pony Club, based in
f
16 Kerr County. Most of our members are Kerr County residents.
17 We have one that lives in Gillespie County, one family that
18 lives in Gillespie County and another family that lives in
19 Kendall County, and another family that lives in -- I guess
20 that's in Gillespie County, as well. But the rest of the 20
21 members live here in Kerr County of our local club. We
22 simply wish to host a project that would enable some children
23 to go to a national competition. And how many things can
24 these kids compete in that would enable them to go compete
25~ against other kids nationally?
24
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My turn.
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JUDGE DENSON: Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I agree with
y'all. I think that we need to do this thing for you,
because you're dealing with -- with our youth, and this is
the Nill Country Youth Exhibition Center. And that land,
when it was donated to the County, it was to be used for
youth -- the youth of Kerr County. It's written plainly and
clearly in that, and that's what's the place is for. It's
not a money-making operation. It's to be used for
particularly agricultural arena. I need to know how many
kids, actual number of kids, live in Kerr County.
MRS. THOMPSON: On our roster currently?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am.
MRS. THOMPSON: I believe 19, off the top of my
head.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 14 off the top of your head?
MRS. THOMPSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then, a question for
you. Have we dealt with this before? I mean, do we allow
other groups to come in and use the facility and give them a
break in the rates?
MS. BOYD: Most of the time it's a discount, yeah,
like the Boy Scouts.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just exactly what these
25
1 folks are asking for?
2 MS. BOYD: Well, my understanding was that Sally
3 wanted to be on the same footing as 9-H.
q COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sally?
5 MS. BOYD: 9-H, they do not pay any fees.
6 MRS. THOMPSON: I'm Sally.
~ MS. BOYD: Mrs. Thompson, excuse me. That's what
8 -- what, to my understanding, Sally was asking for. You
9 know, the Boy Scouts have -- you know, a while back have
10 utilized it before, but they paid a reduced rate, you know,
11 mainly for, like, the guy staying there to, you know, to help
12 with the event. But they did pay, you know, something.
13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, I'm hearing
14 y'all saying that you're going to pay something.
15 MRS. THOMPSON: We'd be willing to take care of it.
16 We don't want a free lunch, But we would like to have some
17I status as far as scheduling is concerned, and some status as
18 far as --
19~ MR. THOMPSON: We just don't want to be charged the
20 same amount as an antique show that goes on out there, that
21~ y'all hold these things out there all the time.
22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We agree 100 percent.
23% JUDGE DENSON: Would you agree to pay the same
24~ thing as the Boy Scouts pay?
2511 MR. THOMPSON: I'm sure -- I don't know what they
~ 26

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MS. BOYD: Well, it's all different, because your
-- the indoor arena is much more expensive than the Exhibit
Hall.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you need an answer on this
today, or can you wait until the December meeting when we
approve a fee structure?
MR. THOMPSON: Okay.
MRS. THOMPSON We have put in a bid to host a
regional -- and it depends on your answer, whether we can
accept -- you know, actually accept that. But we do not have
to get that answer until, I guess, our February meeting. The
Regional Council meets next February. Council meeting is
when we have to give them a final answer, but we're trying to
plan the regional calendar as well. We were there at the
r
Regional Council meeting on Saturday, and at that time there
were two dates that were given to me by Laurinda. One was in
spring break, which is a wipeout, 'cause everybody goes away.
And the other one was exactly one week before the national,
which would make these kids have to put their horses in a
trailer and drive to Colorado almost immediately after
competing in regional, and that is -- I don't know if you
know anything about horses, but that's asking a whole lot of
those horses. Yes, they should be conditioned and ready for
competition, but we'd like to see a little bit more time.
27
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So, no, I don't know if there's anything we can do on the
calendar.
MS. BOYD: Well, the calendar is set far '99. I'm
pretty much 80 percent booked already for '99, and they need
the Exhibit Hall and the indoor arena. And trying to get
both of those free is very difficult.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is it they want them?
What's the date of this meeting?
MRS. THOMPSON: The date of nationals?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whenever you want to come
into Kerr County and use our facility. What day is that?
MRS. THOMPSON: We would prefer prefer to do
something in June, but I was told that there wasn't anything
available in June.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
i
MR. THOMPSON: May. No, what -- what we're saying
is that we would --
MRS. THOMPSON: We'll work with the July date.
MR. THOMPSON: We can work with the July date.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a July date?
MR. THOMPSON: We have gotten the July date which
was given to us by Ms. Boyd. We were -- we've gotten special
dispensation so that we can have this at that time. And --
and the entries to the National by the people who attend
would be -- be waived. Their early -- you know, their date
28
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of entry. I'd like to say to the honorable Judge, when you
say if you -- you approve us, you have to approve everybody
else.
JUDGE DENSON: No, I --
MR. THOMPSON: We're 501(c}(3) and we've come
before you to ask this question, and I think anyone else who
wants any particular thing from you must go through the
process that we're trying to go through now. I mean, I don't
think that your approval of our request is blanket to
everybody else.
JUDGE DENSON: No, but it --
MR. THOMPSON: If it was, then we wouldn't have to
be here.
JUDGE DENSON: When you establish a precedent,
sometimes it makes it a little bit more difficult to say no
t
to some other organization. Let me ask a question. And I
think where Commissioner Letz was coming from, as far as
approving a fee schedule -- and correct me if I'm wrong --
was maybe establishing a category that is different from the
standard rates we charge for organizations that would fit
into the category like yours does, and coming up with that
fee, which would be a reduced rate. But that schedule has
not been approved, and will be approved next month, and I
think he was maybe suggesting or starting to suggest that we
-- we delay action on this today until that schedule is
29
i
1 complete, and that would be the category that you would fall
2 into, which would be a reduced or -- or maybe, possibly, a
3 total waiver.
9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. And what my
5 thoughts were, you know, for Laurinda to look at it when
6 she's developing a schedule, to look at -- you know, my idea
7 is, if we have Kerr youth participating in the event, they
8 should get a reduced rate using the Ag facility, but I don't
9 think it's the same as a Kerr County only group. But I
10 certainly have no problem with, you know, a greatly reduced
11 rate for organizations like this and like the Brahman
12 Association. We have Kerr County kids in that, and all these
13 other youth organizations. And there's -- you know, there
14 are many that use this facility. And I think that I'd like
15 to encourage all those organizations to use this facility,
16 you know, and help the youth of Kerr County, that we reduce
17 -- you know, come up with a schedule to reduce the rates
18 overall. That's what my --
19~ MS. BOYD: Lots of times it's real frustrating for
20 people that call and they expect to get a date, you know, the
21 next -- in the next month. It's just -- they don't
22~ understand we're sitting here in November and I've already
23 got most of '99 booked, and so it's real frustrating for
29~ organizations when they call trying to book. There's not
251 anything we can do to help -- we book it a lot more than we
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to point out
something that goes hand-in-hand with everything you said
there. If these things would be addressed in our policy and
procedures, we wouldn't be here. And that's what I've been
talking about for two years now. If we had -- if this was
addressed, you have -- you rent that facility to certain
folks one way, and these folks that are quasi-Kerr County
another way. If it's written down, you wouldn't even be in
here.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, except every policy,
you. have a right to appeal to the government body, though. I
think that's what's going on here, because they went through
proper procedures going through Laurinda, and they didn't --
they weren't satisfied with her answers, so they came to the
Commissioners Court.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. That is always
available, that is true.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's available.
MS. BOYD: I told Sally --
JUDGE DENSON: Let's do this today. Lock in this
date that they need. Lock it in, don't give it to anyone
else, and then we'll wait until our fee schedule is complete,
and at their discretion, they can -- they can agree with that
fee schedule or not, and then it will free up that date if
31
they choose not to. That will get us past today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this organization would
clearly qualify for that reduced rate.
MR. THOMPSON: Well, I want to clarify, too, that
1(
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we were not unhappy with what response we got from Laurinda.
We went to Laurinda a couple years ago, and she maybe bent
the rules to give us what we wanted. And -- and when we went
back again, she said, Well, I don't know whether I can do
this. Because its you guy's decision. And so what we're
trying to do is keep her out of trouble.
MS. BOYD: Thanks.
MR. THOMPSON:
make, whether or not we
guy's decision. So, I
that we're unhappy with
because we've asked for
authority to do.
Because it's not her decision to
get a reduced rate or not. It's you
9on't want there to be an impression
what kind of decisions are made here,
something which she doesn't have the
MS. BOYD: And we're growing more and more out
there, and just trying to keep up with it all. So it's all
-- lots of things are evolving.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What was the rate that was
paid last time when you used the facility?
MS. BOYD: They paid for all the stalls, and I
think they paid for some clean-up or something. It was very
minimal.
32
1 1
MR. THOMPSON: .Yeah, we paid --
MS. BOYD: 5100 or $125, something like that.
MR. THOMPSON: Whatever.
MS. BOYD: The stalls are separate, though. The
County doesn't, you know, get the benefits.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. For purposes of getting past
this, today, if you'll lock in that date.
MS. BOYD: It's a done -- yeah.
9 JUDGE DENSON: Just use it as a date that's already
10 been taken, and then we'll approve your fee schedule at our
11 -- what meeting will that be?
12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First meeting in December,
13 which is -- the 7th?
19 JUDGE DENSON: Then we'll get back with you, or
15 Laurinda will get back to you on that cost, that reduced
16 rate, and you can make a decision at that point. Okay?
17 Anything further on this? Thank you very much.
18 MR. THOMPSON: Thank you. I'm sorry I went over my
19~ time that I put on my --
20 JUDGE DENSON: That's okay.
21~ COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It wasn't all your fault.
22i COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you.
23i JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Back to the top of the
29; agenda. Well, 2.2, consider and discuss County emergency
25~ repairs and possible permanent maintenance at Cummings Lane
33
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to rear entrance to Town-and Country Shopping Center. As I
understand -- I put this on the agenda -- I'm not so sure
that this is Cummings Lane. I had -- I had a couple people
talk to me about this road, and it's -- you know where the
road is?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
JUDGE DENSON: It's a road that runs parallel to
8 Junction Highway, and it's behind, like, Straube Machine Shop
9 or automobile repair. There's two or three other businesses
10 located right along --
11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Industrial park.
12	JUDGE DENSON: Yeah.	If you take one of those side
13	roads or one of those roads off	of Junction Highway, you'll
14	dead end at this road. And it r	uns along behind all these
15	buildings and comes into the rea	r of the shopping center. I
		
16	was directed out there one day,	and I drove it, and it was in
17	real bad condition. And, so, I	had a question on whether or
18	not it was County-maintained, an	d I called and talked to
19	Leonard, and far some reason, in	the past Court -- I may have
20	been on the Court, I don't know.	But, if you came off of
21	that road that's between Straube	and -- I think it's Texas
22	Window Specialties, and you hit	that -- the road that I'm
23		talking about	to the	left, the	County had	taken that on for
24		maintenance,	but to	the right,	which is,	I don't know, half a

25	I	
block, a real	
short	
distance,	
the County	
chose not to do
34

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that. But it's all one	i
asphalt road. And this is what
2	Leonard had explained to	me. But he said he	had gone out
3	after my call and looked	at it, and it was in poor condition,
9	and that he was wanting	to fix some potholes	on the entire
5	stretch, and including a	little portion that	wasn't
6	County-maintained. But	I thought I'd bring	it up to the
7 Court to see if we wanted to bring in that little stretch of
8 road which -- like, to me, logically, maybe should have been
9 done back some time ago.
10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it probably was.
11 It's lust that there weren't any real measurements and
12 description of the -- you know, Walter Masters put that
13 subdivision in years ago. We did rename -- the one road used
14 to be Cummings Lane. Now it's called Gasoline Alley. It
15 comes .off between Hill Country Well and Supply and Army Navy
16I Surplus Store. Goes straight up through what -- I'm not real
17 sure what it is.
18 JUDGE DENSON: Do you know the name of that street,
19~ Leonard?
20 MR. ODOM: The one from Blue Ridge that you're
21! talking about is called Cummings.
22i JUDGE DENSON: Is it Cummings?
23~ MR. ODOM: The other two have never been named, but
24i in the Court, since, I know, Bruce has been here, that that
25; name was -- those two roads by Olen's property, there's no
35
1 name on that one. The other one's called Gasoline Alley.
2 That's what the Court named it, and said to go up to Cummings
3 and turn to the left to Blue Ridge. So we knew we had that
9 one, from memory. But, to the right and that other road,
5 nobody's ever done anything with it. I mean, there was no
6 direction from the Court on the rest of the subdivision. So,
7 we -- you know, it was in -- it was in bad shape, so I'll be
8 honest with you, we patched it. It was that bad.
9 JUDGE DENSON: Whether it's -- I'm not trying to
10 create new business or bring in a new road at this time. It
11 just looks like to me it's all -- all part of a road that we
12~ already
13 MR. ODOM: It's all the same. The problem is,
19 Judge, there is no platting on Gasoline Alley, as we named it
15 now. And there's no platting on the other one. The only
16 plat is that Cummings.
17 JUDGE DENSON: What would you say the distance is
18 on that little leg of the road, or that little segment that's
19~ not technically maintained by the County now?
20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 900 or 500 feet?
21I MR. ODOM: Yeah, it's 300 to 900 feet on Cummings,
22' and 400 feet maybe up on that other one next to Olen's' place
23~ right there.
i
29. JUDGE DENSON: And it services -- there's no
25j residential.
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MR. ODOM: It's all commercial.
JUDGE DENSON: It's all businesses. But there's a
number of businesses?
MR. ODOM: Yes. Yes, sir, it's full.
JUDGE DENSON: And then all the -- all the little
retail or various businesses located inside that shopping
center, the Town and Country Shopping Center, use that exit
from --
MR. ODOM: Coming aut.
JUDGE DENSON: Coming out, and so they're all
driving over that -- that road. And, presumably, customers
like myself, someone in that shopping center from the general
public, would be traveling over that road also. So, there's
all -- I think all kind of good reasons for the County to
take this little segment in. Do you have any objection to
r
that?
MR. ODOM: I have no objections, other than to
remind the Court that drainage is always a problem. And I --
I see that there is no drainage in there; that's flat in
there. I just bring it to your attention, that -- that
that's always a consideration that you have to be careful of
when we take it over. But to say that we can't take it over,
it makes no sense to take part of it and not the rest of it,
to be honest with you.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, the drainage issues are
37
present in the -- in the part of the road that we are
presently maintaining, correct?
MR. ODOM: Correct.
9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, are we talking about the
5 little piece of Cummings Lane or the --
6 JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, the little piece of --
7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it, just that piece?
8 What about the other -- Gasoline Alley and the other --
9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Gasoline Alley we maintain
10 already.
11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other one, we don't?
12 MR. ODOM: The other one we do not, no, sir.
13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: To maintain Gasoline Alley
19 all the way up to Classical Gas back over to Blue Ridge which
15 is the -- comes out by Johnny Hill's office, which comes out
16 of the mobile home park, Blue Ridge Mobile Home Park,
17 whatever else is back there.
18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would make sense to me to do
19 Cummings, but I don't know about the other road.
20 JUDGE DENSON: No, I'm not talking about that.
21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They could all use Gasoline
22 Alley, which is a County road.
23 JUDGE DENSON: I'm talking about a small portion of
24q an existing road that we do maintain, and that's all I'm
25 speaking of.
38
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No problem.
MR. ODOM: About 900 feet is what you're talking
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about.
JUDGE DENSON: And I'll make a motion that we
include that portion of Cummings Lane not heretofore approved
for County Maintenance.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Further questions, comments on this?
All right. All in favor?
(Judge Denson and Commissioners Lackey, Letz, and
Oehler indicated by uplifted hand and by saying
"aye" that they were in favor of the motion.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got a no-vote here.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Let's see. 2.3, consider and
discuss approval of Interlocal Cooperation Agreement for
housing agreement. between Kerr County and Llano County, and
authorize County Judge to sign same. The Sheriff told me --
I talked with her a couple times last week about various
business. She told me she would be out of town today, but
had this contract to present to us for approval. I think it
follows the same form as our previous contracts, and our
attorney, Tom Pollard, has reviewed it and approved it, as
well as the Sheriff. Deputy Hicks? Do you need to make a
comment?
DEPUTY HICKS: I'll just give a copy of this to
y'all.
39

1	
JUDGE DENSON:	i
Okay. You have an original?
2	DEPUTY ALFORD	: We need all three signed, Judge.
3	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: I'm excited. I hope we get
4	some out-of-county pris	oners here.
5	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: I move we accept the --
6	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Contract.
7	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: -- contract as presented.
8	JUDGE DENSON:	And authorize County Judge to sign
9	same.	
10	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Yes.
11	JUDGE DENSON:	Okay. Let's see, 2.4 --
12	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: We've got to vote.
13	JUDGE DENSON:	Oh, I'm sorry. All in favor?
19	(The motion w	as carried by unanimous vote.)
15	JUDGE DENSON:	2.9. Consider and discuss approval
16	of Sheriff's Department	going out fox bids on two vehicles,
17	one '99 sedan and a '99	police pickup. Bids will be accepted
18	at the County Clerk's o	ffice until 5 p.m., November 30th, and
19~	sealed bids will be ope	ned on December the 14th, 1998, and
20	awarded ox rejected at	such time.
21	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: These were approved vehicles
22	in the budget process?	
23	I JUDGE DENSON:	They were.
24	~ COMMISSIONER
I	BALDWIN: I so move.
25	~ COMMISSIONER	LACKEY: Second.
	t
~	
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JUDGE DENSON: .Okay. Further questions, comments
2 on this? All in favor?
3 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
4 JUDGE DENSON: 2.5, consider and discuss possible
5 extensive computer problems with year 2000. I put this on
6 the agenda, lust simply to bring the subject up for
7 discussion purposes. I've been hearing some comments about
8 this for a couple of months. We, of course, here at the
9 courthouse have a computer system that's separate from that
10 at the Law Enforcement Center. I think we have a software
11 group to deal with our system here in the courthouse. Of
12 course, there are a lot of PC users here at the courthouse
13 that are separate and apart from -- from that system,
19 software system. I got a call from Deputy Alford, from Brad
15 Alford last week about some concerns he has about the system
16 at the Law Enforcement Center, and some potential
17 far-reaching adverse consequences that they may be facing out
18 there.
19 So, simply as an effort to get this on the table so it's
20 being addressed and us start in some direction on it, I
21 thought we'd put it on the agenda, in keeping with, I think,
22 oux philosophy that we've maybe never expressed, but sort of
23 developed over the last few months. It's certainly not my
29~ intent to try and make some kind of decision now, late in the
25 year, that would impact the new Court that's coming on, but I
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do think all of us need to be aware of these potential
problems and let's start addressing them.
Brad, why don't you speak a little bit about what you've
-- what you see as potential problems with the system that
y'all have out at the Law Enforcement Center.
DEPUTY ALFORD: We're not just worried about the
computer system; the network, per se. I mean, it's supposed
to be up and running. We have a letter of intent from the
computer people that says, no, you're not going to lose any
data, everything's going to be fine. Our main concern is our
patrol cars; they're computer-chip driven. Our generator,
it's computer-chip driven. Our telephone system. Tommy says
Norstars are year 2000 compatible. My question is, though,
is the telephone company year 2000 compatible? 'Cause just
because my telephone's going to work, does that mean -- you
know, I mean, we have a lot of -- is 911 going to work? Is
the electricity going to work?
Granted, we have our own generators, both at the
Sheriff's Office, and also L.C.R.A. has one for us out at the
radio tower. Well, let's say there is a temporary blackout;
electricity goes down, computers go heywixe. What are we
going to do fox gasoline fox our patrol cars? What do we do
for extra diesel, you know, for our generators? Does Road
and Bridge have above-ground storage gas tanks, diesel tanks?
MR. ODOM: Yes. A thousand -- 2,000 gallons.
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DEPUTY ALFORD: Above-ground, great. So, can we
say, as a contingency plan, that if it blacks out, we can get
extra gas and diesel from Road and Bridge? You know, we're
talking about the budget items now, the next Commissioners
Court type of deal. It's just -- all we're doing, you know,
if it goes -- some of the electrical companies will have
problems. Of course, Texas is fortunate. We are separate
from rest of the United States on the power grid, the big
power grid crisis everybody's been talking about. That's not
a problem for us; for Texas, as far as that goes. But, like,
KPUB buys their electricity, so what if whoever KPUB buys
from doesn't have their switches right? KPUB may be 2000
compatible, but if they can't the get the electricity here,
what's that going to do for us? That's all we're trying to
do, is get a contingency plan, like the gasoline and
diesel-type deal, you know, or the telephone systems,
themselves. Not the little phones, but is the whole system
going to work? Is the 911 up and ready? We have been told
our radios are -- are going to be fine if we keep the
generators running.
There's been some rumors about -- Tommy, you may know
more about this, about September the 9th, '99. We're
supposed to start getting into the year 2000 problems by
September the 9th of '99, the reason being is cause of
9-9-99. It's supposed to be some type of computer language,
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terminal error. This is over my head; I don't know.
Somebody here might know something about it. But they're
saying that's supposed to be a problem before then. I don't
know.
JUDGE DENSON: I mean -- let me address Judge-elect
Hennecke, who's present in the courtroom.
MR. HENNECKE: Yes?
JUDGE DENSON: And ask if you have suggestions on
what we do, whether we defer today for your January meeting?
And I know you and I have had some conversations about maybe
having some task force headed up by Commissioner-elect,
Precinct 9, Larry Griffin.
MR. HENNECKE: Exactly. Your Honor, what I would
suggest is that the Court consider designating Larry Griffin,
Commissioner-elect from Precinct 9, as the person to be the
point man on addressing the potential technology problems
that would arise out of the year 2000 or whatever. I firmly
believe that Mr. Griffin has a far greater grasp of the
subtleties and intricacies of the computer world than I do.
That would sort of be my suggestion, and that he liaison with
the Sheriff and the other departments to lay to rest any
unease about what might happen on that fateful day.
DEPUTY ALFORD: That's exactly what we're after,
Judge. We're lust after one person we could call and say,
What about this and that? So that would be wonderful, as far
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as we're concerned.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, Commissioner-elect, Precinct
4, Larry Griffin, it seems like, to me, that you would have
to volunteer your services right now. Come the 1st --
MR. GRIFFIN: I'll be glad to do that, Judge. I'll
be glad to do that, and I've already discussed with -- with
Judge-elect Hennecke that I'd be glad to do that and start as
soon as we can. And I would suggest that we call that a
working group and get representation from all the
departments, and sit down and -- understand, there are
several sources of support in evaluating Y2K problems that
are available to us for no cost. The State has done a lot of
work in this area. They have a task force that's up and
running that represents all of the departments in Austin, and
we can stand on their shoulders. There's, for example, a PC
World, there are a whole bunch of tests that we can download
off the Internet to run on PC's to make sure that the PC's
are compliant. They've also gone through a number in DPS,
for example, of the law enforcement databases to make sure
that all of the computers that support that are -- are Y2K
compliant. So, we do have some work that's been ongoing that
we can stand on the shoulders of and not spend a lot of
resources, particularly money, and be able to evaluate the
systems that we have. I11 be glad to do that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wonderful.
95

JUDGE DENSON: You do sound like you're the man to
2 go to.
3 MR. JOHNSTON: Even beyond the computers, per se,
9 there's a whole issue of imbedded chips; talking about stop
5 lights and elevators and all that type of thing, too.
6 MR. GRIFFIN: You may have some machines that will
7 also -- if they have a year date down on them, that won't
8 turn on your coffee the next morning.
9 DEPUTY ALFORD: That's our whole deal. Whenever we
10 talked to Tommy, he was working on the computers, and we're,
11 like, Well, that's good. You know, but what about the -- the
12 Coke machines, you know, the red lights, the stop signs? Of
13 course, we don't have any red lights, but the City is worried
14 about their ladder trucks, from what I understand. I
15 understand they already -- they had to do some upgrades on
16I that already. So, it's a whole bigger picture than just the
17I PC world is what our concerns were.
18~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you want a motion to --
19I JUDGE DENSON: Yes.
20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move that we appoint Larry
21i Griffin to head up the task force to look into the computer
22j 2000 -- the Y2K problem.
231' COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
24; COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Is this a Court
25' order? I mean, we are ordering him to represent us?
i
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1	JUDGE DENSON:	We're appointing him, based on his
2	own request.	
3	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: He volunteered.
4	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: I want it to be called a
5	Court order.	
6	MR. GRIFFIN:	I volunteer.
7	JUDGE DENSON:	Okay, I have a motion.
g	MR. GRIFFIN:	You can't order me, 'cause I
9	volunteer.	
10	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Can't fire you 'cause you
11	quit.	
12	JUDGE DENSON:	I want you to understand that they
13	can order you on January the 1st.
14	MR. GRIFFIN:	Right, it's an order as of January
15	the 1st.	
	f	
16	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: And will.
17	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: That remains to be seen.
18	JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Any further questions,
19	comments on this? All	in favor?
20	(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
21	JUDGE DENSON	: Thank you very much, Larry, for
22	coming forward. Okay.	We have two 10 o'clock matters, the
23	first of which is 2.6,	open sealed bids for a Gradeall and
24	award of reject same.	Okay. The first -- first one, in
25~ order, is from TMT Parts and Machinery, Inc., out of San
47

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Antonio. Looks like $16,500, f.o.b. Amarillo.
(Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.)
JUDGE DENSON: Next is from Waukashaw --
MR. ODOM: Pierce.
JUDGE DENSON: -- Pierce Industries out of San
Antonio.
MR. ODOM: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: $51,095.
MR. ODOM: Must be for a brand-new one.
(Off-the-record discussion.)
JUDGE DENSON: One used Gradeall, 3 WD, $51,095.
Andy up on your bid form, under model, 1987 or newer model,
it says, "Sold new May 1989."
MR. ODOM: We're in the wrong business.
JUDGE DENSON: Now, the -- the one from TMT under
r'
the form where it says, "Model 1987 or newer model," it has
1987. So, I don't know. You'll have to look in these
things.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we refer the bids to
Road and Bridge department for review and come back with a
recommendation.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Further questions? Comments? All
in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
98
MR. ODOM: Thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 2.7, public hearing for
replat of Lots 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, and 112 in Falling Water,
Precinct 3, and consider approval of final plat for same.
We're in our open Commissioners Court meeting, which we will
close and go into a public hearing on that matter, it being
about 8 minutes after 10:00 on November the 9th, 1998.
(The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed
at 10:08 a.m., and a Public Hearing was held in
open court, as follows:)
10 P U B L I C H E A R I N G
11 JUDGE DENSON: We are now our public meeting and
12 I'll ask, is there anyone present that wants to speak on this
13 matter publicly?
_ lq (Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.)
15 MR."HALLENBERGER: We're here for questions. I'm
i
16 the consulting engineer.
17 JUDGE DENSON: Speak up, please, sir.
18 MR. HALLENBERGER: My name is Ron Hallenberger,
19 consulting engineer, Hallenberger Engineering, representing
20 the replat. And, Mr. Ken Musgrave, the owner and
21 owner-representative for the subdivision.
22 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And, there's not -- there's
23 no one here, it doesn't appear, that is in opposition to what
24 is proposed, the final replat and approval of same. Okay.
25~ We'11 close our public meeting and go back into Commissioners
49

Court, it being about 9 minutes after 10:00, and we'll take
that up for approval.
3 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:09 a.m.,
and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was
9 reopened.)
5 JUDGE DENSON: Do I have a -- Frank, do you have
6 any comments?
7 MR. JOHNSTON: We approved the final plat with --
8 we requested more information on drainage, and that's what
9 that letter is. The engineer stated that all of the lots --
10 the new lots were on top of the hill, the drainage really
11 wasn't an issue.
12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All these new lots are -- what
13 are they, about 10 acres, most of them? Ten, twelve?
19 MR. JOHNSTON: They vary. The smallest one is,
15 what, four?
16 MR. HALLENBERGER: They're between 10 acres and
17 about 9.
18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept the replat as
19 presented -- or approve the replat as presented.
20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
21I COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
22, JUDGE DENSON: Did you get a second?
23~ MS. MARQUART: From Commissioner Oehler.
24 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. I have a motion and second to
25' approval final replat. Further questions? Comments? All in
50
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(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
MR. HOLLENBERGER: Thank you very much.
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, sir.
MR. HOLLENBERGER: Do we come back with the
signature on the plats?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Franklin?
MR. JOHNSTON: I'll present it here in a minute.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's signing right now.
MR. HOLLENBERGER: We'll just wait.
JUDGE DENSON: It's now 10 after 10:00; let's take
our morning break until about 10:20, about 10 minutes. We're
in recess.
(Whereupon a brief recess was taken.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, it's 10:25. We'll resume our
Commissioners Court meeting. It's the 9th of November, 1998,
and we need to take up -- looks like 2.10, consider and
discuss hiring construction consultant to oversee Phase III
construction, courthouse -- commonly known as courthouse
renovation. Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda. This
is something -- we had talked about doing this before. I was
visiting with a contractor, and the question came up, were we
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going to hire a consultant or not? And I said, well, we have
to wait. We discussed it, and I think the leaning of the
Court was to do it, but we hadn't done it. And, the response
to me was that this could affect the bids. That, basically,
if the contractors know that we are going to hire a, quote,
professional consultant, it will probably lower the bids,
because there are less -- you know, they have someone
professional that can get things done on a more timely basis.
I put it on the agenda. I think we can -- I certainly
don't want to hire anyone at this point; I think that would
probably be up to the new Court. I think we could send a
letter to everyone who's picked up a bid package and let
those contractors know that we will be hiring a consultant
that will be the person they're talking to, because I think
there's always a concern, when you're working for a
Commissioners Court, who you're working for; whether it's the
Court, the architect, or all of the above. And, this way, I
think we send out a clear message that you're going to be
working with someone who knows what they're doing.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: The new Court should have
some say-so in that, too, 'cause they're going to be working
on --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the new Court should
hire the person, but I think we're at a point that we need to
let the contractors know if we're going to do it, and I think
52

1	
we can just	
commit that we`re going to	
hire	i .
a consultant and
2	leave it at	that, just send out a letter.	
3	CO	MMISSIONER OEHLER: We did	that	in the past, you
9	know, on the	-- the extension office.	And,	I mean, it went
5	very smooth	with that deal. Paul -- I	can`t	-- I'm trying to
6~ think of Paul's last name.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Powell.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Powell, yeah, from Hunt.
9 He's really knowledgeable and he works well with everyone.
10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is -- I mean,
11 I thought Paul did a great job out there. I think that we
12 probably need to define it a little bit more than that one,
13 because I think it kind of lingered around, it seems to me,
14 for longer than was necessary. But I think that this
15 project, with the -- there's going to be a lot of things that
16 are going to have to be decided upon and answered on the
17 spot, because it's going to be, I mean, in the middle of --
18 you never know what you're going to get for sure with it
I
19 until you are doing this renovation.
20~ COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. I think it's a very
21. necessary thing, because we have had -- and the past
22i experience will dictate that we need to do that.
23j COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Amen.
29; COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For the future Court as well
25' as the present Court.
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9
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we -- you
know, I guess --
JUDGE DENSON: Commit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- commit to hiring a
construction consultant, and direct our architect to send a
letter out stating so to anyone who's picked up a bid
package.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Further questions? Comments? All
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in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, once
again, you've gone done a wonderful job.
JUDGE DENSON: 2.11, consider and discuss approving
contract between Office of Court Administration -- that's
t
Presiding Judges Assistance Project -- and Kerr County, and
authorize County Judge to sign same. This, again, is a
rollover of an existing contract for Judge Ables to serve as
the Presiding Judge of the district.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to make a
motion that we approve the agreement between the Office of
the Court Administrator and Kerr County and authorize County
Judge to sign same.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
• JUDGE DENSON: Further questions, comments on that?
59

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All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 2.12, consider and discuss
approving telecommunications equipment lease between Kerr
County and Advanced Tel-Com Systems Corporation, d/b/a
Kerrville Telephone Business Systems, and authorize County
Judge to sign same. That's what you're here on, Tommy?
Tommy McDaniels, in the back of the courtroom, representing
the telephone company.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exactly who is it that's --
let's see, let me read these numbers here. Road and Bridge
is getting a new system?
MR. McDANIELS: Road and Bridge already got one.
It's the Extension Office.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Extension Office wants a new
system like the Road and Bridge has?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, sir, almost like it.
JUDGE DENSON: This one is for equipment located at
Extension Office. It is a 60-month lease with a monthly
payment of $93.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do we pay now?
MR. TOMLINSON: It's within our budget.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did he say?
JUDGE DENSON: He said it's in the budget.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The $93 is within the
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budget?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's with voice mail?
MR. McDANIELS: It doesn't have voice mail, that
system does not. It has the capability of adding it to it in
the future if you want to. Its year 2000 compliant.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. That's good
news.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it cost to add voice
mail?
MR. DANIELS: About $2,800 or $65 a month. $67,
with the full-term warranty.
MR. TOMLINSON: Voice mail would not fit in their
budget; that's why they decided not to use it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do they use now, answering
machine?
MR. TOMLINSON: Apparently.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did he say yes?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know what they use.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He said apparently, actually.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to make a
motion that we approve the agreement for a telecommunications
equipment lease between Kerr County and Advanced Tel-Com
System Corp., and for the County Judge to sign same.
56
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COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second it.
JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I second it.
JUDGE DENSON: I've got a second. Further questions
on this? All in favor?
{The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And, Tammy, you have that?
MS. MARQUART: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: Do we need to do anything else,
Tommy?
MR. McDANIELS: Well, I mean, if you could sign it,
I could go on ahead and schedule it; we could get it done,
probably start Monday.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is 2000 going to screw up
the phones?
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MR. McDANIELS: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. He said no.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Glenn, you can call your
dogcatcher.
MR. McDANIELS:
send you documentation.
MR. TOMLINSON:
MR. McDANIELS:
COMMISSIONER B
kind of like Al Gore and
If you need documentation, we can
We already have that.
Okay.
ALDWIN: I think this 2000 thing is
salt on popcorn and all that
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nonsense that comes out of the -- the crazy house up there.
MR. TOMLINSON: I have a letter from Jim Hart on
our systems.
JUDGE DENSON: Am I to give you one of them?
MR. McDANIELS: Let's see if this is the original.
JUDGE DENSON: Looks like I have duplicate
originals.
MR. McDANIELS: This one's the copy, I believe, for
y'all. I need to send back the original. All right. Thank
you all.
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 2.13, consider and discuss
approving contract between Kerr County and the following
volunteer fire departments and authorize County Judge to sign
~;
same: Elm Pass, Center Point, Comfort, Mountain Home.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third.
JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion, Commissioner
Lackey, second, Commissioner Letz. Further questions?
Comments? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 2.14, consider and discuss
approving agreements between City of Kerrville and Kerr
58
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County for use of Hotel Occupancy Tax revenues - Historical
preservation purposes, Union Church, $10,985.18, and
improvement of Convention Center facilities, that being the
Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center, $11,019.58, and
authorize County Judge to sign same.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I only have one
question here. Looking at the backup that our Administrative
Assistant is so kind to give us when there -- generally,
there isn't any, she makes some notes here for us. In these
notes, the third -- the other agreement between the City of
Kerrville, that one, are y'all there? The other agreement
between City of Kerrville and the Kerr County -- and the
County of Kerr for use of Hotel Occupancy Tax revenues for
improvement of Convention Center facilities? Are we changing
the name of the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center to
r'
Convention Center facilities?
JUDGE DENSON: No. I'm just going to guess that
that's directed at work improvement in the meeting hall out
there, the meeting area, as opposed to the arena.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it's the Convention
Center facility?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think that shouldn't
even be capitalized.
JUDGE DENSON: Right.
• COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm concerned that
59

1 somebody's changing the name of our facility.
2 JUDGE DENSON: No. I think our Administrative
3 Assistant that you praised a moment ago got a little wild
9 with her typewriter.
5 MR. WILLIAMS: Judge, that might be a qualifying
6 comment to conform to the use of that tax money on behalf of
7 the City.
8		JUDGE DENSON: Good point. And let me see that
9	contract.	Tammy has it.
10		MR. TOMLINSON: I have a question about the
I1	historica	l preservation purpose. If -- are we approving it?
12	Shouldn't	that be a historical preservation? I mean,
13	shouldn't	they be the ones that approve this?
14		COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They should be the recip --
15		MR. TOMLINSON: If we approve it, I think my
16	question	is, does the money flow through Kerr County? Or
17	does it g	o, you know, directly to them?
18		COMMISSIONER LETZ: Through us.

19	I	
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's one sitting behind
20	you back	there. Open season, too.
21		MR. TOMLINSON: I don't want to have to deal with
22	it if --	if we don't have to.
23	~	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like the money
24; should flow through the Historical Commission and not Kerr
25~' County if it's going to be used for the Union Church.
60

COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they designated that to
be the expenditure, and I don't think we should accept that.
That should be channeled through them, and not Kerr County,
unless there's some law that makes it have to travel that
bg way.
7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was part of it, too --
8 also, Bill, that it has to go through a government entity.
9 I mean, is that the reason that this historical money is
10 coming through us, is because it has to go through a
11 government body?
12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't have to go --
13 MR. WILLIAMS: I don't know that it necessarily has
19 to, but what you're saying is that there is an agreement
15 coming in place between the City and Kerr County for those
t
16 uses, so maybe maybe that's what's the intent is, but I don't
17 think it's necessary. It could go directly to the
18 Commission. Somebody has to take charge of it.
19 MR. WALKER: Judge, if I may, the stipulation that
20 was put on us before with the Historical Commission was that
21 all our funds have to go through the County, and we were an
22 arm of the County and therefore, we were subject to
23 everything flowing through there unless we set up a separate
29 entity, a C(5)(3)or whatever, to funnel those funds. But our
25 -- I~think, by law, our funds had to be comingled with the
61
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County.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do all of your funds come
through the County?
MR. WALKER: No.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think so.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, I know that --
MR. TOMLINSON: We don't have -- we have a budget
-- we have a line item in our budget for the Historical
Commission, but it's -- it's whatever the Court agrees to --
to include in our -- or whatever the Court wants to provide
for that function. And, I don't recall seeing any funds come
to us and then to them.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, from a practical matter, I
know that the Historical Commission has some mechanism for
holding funds. Just from presentations that's been made
here, most recently a couple weeks ago by Mr. Schellhase and
Dr. Rector as to some of the donations that were received and
all, they're going to -- they're holding money for renovation
purposes for Union Church, as well as moving it onto the
Schreiner campus, possibly, and erecting it, restoring it.
And I assume these -- these funds are all for the same
purposes. But, they spoke of sums that they already had on
hand. Now, mechanically, or from an accounting standpoint,
Tommy, however you want to do it, we can sign over the check
to them, 'cause they're the ones that are actually doing all
62
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11
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9
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the work.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
JUDGE DENSON: They're in charge. They're -- as
Mike says, they're an arm. They're the left arm of the
County, as far as -- as far as this Union Church project.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who's on the right side,
Judge?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To go back to the other one,
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Buster.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The second whereas, "Whereas
County owns and operates Exhibition Hall and Convention
facility located within close proximity to the City
incorporated limits, which is known as the Hill Country Youth
Exhibition Center." So, they're not changing the name and
that's not part of it. It's just informational as to how
they were designating it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's' not a conspiracy.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not a conspiracy.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought I was onto
something; I was going to call Bill Stacy and tell him what I
found.
JUDGE DENSON: Back to -- back to this question on
how these funds are to -- you don't want that to actually
continue in the County budget, I guess, is what you're
63
1 saying?
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MR. TOMLINSON: We don't have a --
JUDGE DENSON: I know we don't have a place for it.
MR. TOMLINSON: Don't have a place for it. And I
-- that's not too good of a trail, to take a check and
endorse it and give it to --
JUDGE DENSON: No.
MR. TOMLINSON: -- to the Historical Commission.
JUDGE DENSON: But we are the official entity.
MR. TOMLINSON: I guess what we have to do is amend
the budget to -- to accept the money, and then -- and then
increase the budget -- the budgeted amount that we're going
to pay the Historical Commission by this amount, is what we'd
have to do.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will work.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that would probably
work. I think also it does open up another topic, that --
whether, for future years and with the arrangement that we
agreed to enter into with the Historical Commission on this
church and Schreiner College, we're going to probably have to
keep this as a continuing item on our budget, that church,
because we're going to take over a lot of responsibilities
with that facility.
JUDGE DENSON: And what's on the table right now,
and it has not been approved by the Court and has not -- as I
64
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1 understand it, it has not been officially approved by any
2 entity, is that the Historical Commission and Schreiner
3 College have been working together on a plan -- again, I
4 emphasize it's not into effect yet -- where that Union Church
5 would be actually placed or moved to Schzeiner College,
6 erected, maintained permanently for use of the public, as
7 well as Schzeiner College, but that it be something that will
8 continue on into the future for an indefinite period of time.
9 And there's going to be responsibilities assigned as to
10 maintenance, scheduling of use, and costs related to these
11 things. But it's going to be an ongoing deal for years to
12 come, where the County will have a -- a financial
13 relationship with that project. But what Jonathan, I think,
14 is saying is that maybe it is time that we establish
15 something in our budget for that.
16 MR. TOMLINSON: That's fine. I just --
17I JUDGE DENSON: Yeah.
18 MR. TOMLINSON: -- wanted to make it clear.
19~ JUDGE DENSON: And, of course, the City is looking
20 to the official entity, being the County, to sign off on the
21! contract. Okay. Do I have a motion to approve these
22~ contracts and authorize County Judge to sign same?
i
23j COMMISSIONER LACKEY: So moved.
i
29' JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion.
25'' COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second. But the question
I
i 65
~1
1
1 I have is, there's only one contract here. Is there another?
2 (Ms. Marquart handed document to Judge Denson.)
3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just -- the other part of
9 this is -- since we really weren't involved with it, I don't
5 know what their application said, but we're commiting to do
6 whatever they said they're going to do with that money, is
7 the reason I want to look at it. That one refers to the
8 application, and I want to make sure this one does the same
9 thing. And -- you know, so it's a -- I think the Historical
10 Commission -- we need to make sure that whatever y'all agreed
11 to do is what y'all actually do with that. You can't make a
12 change now.
13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have to hire Paul Powell
19 to supervise.
15 COMMISSIONER LACKEY: They've got enough
16 supervisors now. They just need somebody to work.
17 JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion and second.
18 Anything further on this? All in favor?
I
19 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
20 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 2:15, consider and discuss
21! possible rental of office space from the City of Ingram for
22i satellite tax office. Since our last meeting, gentlemen, we
23~ did have our Maintenance Supervisor, Mr. Glenn Holekamp, go
24i out and inspect that proposed office space, and he came back
25'' and reported to me personally that he has a lot of concerns.
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And, I asked him to appear before us today to share that
information with the entire Court. Mr. Holekamp?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can I make one comment
first? Go back to 2.19 a minute. We got off on kind of, you
know, nitpicking contracts. I want to make a comment that --
since the Mountain Sun is here and the Kerrville Daily Times,
we really appreciate the City giving us both those fundings.
The Youth Exhibition Center, I think they realize -- I talked
with several of the City Council members. They realize
that's a very important facility, you know, to the City as
well as the County, and are showing that by, you know,
helping with the renovation of the restrooms out there. And
I just want to, you know, thank the City for doing that. It
took quite a few, you know, meetings and -- from Laurinda and
others. I think,,: Bruce, you might have gone to one this
year?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't go to one this year;
I went last year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, appreciate the
City doing that, and also on the Union Church project, as
well.
MR. WEST: Can I make a statement?
JUDGE DENSON: George West. Yes, sir?
MR. WEST: I -- probably, you've got the same
contract or agreement between the County and the City that
67
1	going to require us	-- which my present feeling	is we
2	probably would be -	- to finish both sides of the	wall, since
3	if you do just our	side, their -- their council	chambers will
4	have insulation and	studs showing on the other.	So, that's a
5	concern that they c	ould not give me an answer th	at day. The
6 City Secretary could not give me an answer definitely on
7 that.
8 I did speak to two different people that deal with the
9 remodeling, and I got them to give me some estimates. Not
10 firm proposals, by any means, because I don't have all the
11 answers as to what definitely is going to be a requirement on
12 Zngxam's part. One estimate was $18,500, and the other one
13 was $12,000. I -- I would like -- and I have visited with
19 Paula, and she may have some comments relative to this, as to
15 what she -- however we want to pursue this or what we want to
16 -- what y'all wish to do.
17 There are some other alternatives if y'all wish to
18 pursue those. In fact, there were two different options.
19 Available space next to Judge Ragsdale's office, immediately
20 next to him, is available. There is a gentleman here -- that
21 lives in Kerrville here has offered to buy a particular
22 building in Ingram, possibly, and -- and make office space
23 available to us. You know, just -- different things have
24 come since two weeks ago in Court, when it went -- you know,
25~ that it was public that we were actively looking for a space.
69
1 we've got between the Kerzville Performing Arts Society and
2 the City for the use of that money. I would point out to
3 you, as you'll probably find in there, that the money is
9 expended on a reimbursible basis, which means the money has
5 to be spent first for its purpose before the City gives it to
6 you. They're not going to hand you a lump sum so you can go
7 out and fix whatever you want. So, you just need to be aware
8 of that.
9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right.
10 JUDGE DENSON: All right, thank you. Mr. Holekamp?
11 MR. HOLEKAMP: If you don't mind a side note on the
12 -- also on 2.14, my involvement is that we've already started
13 getting some proposals as to what it's going to cost to bring
19 the men's and women's bathroom -- restrooms into A.D.A.
15 compliance in the exhibition portion of the hall. I think
r
16 two different contractors have looked at it, and we're trying
17 to get another one or two. So, that has been started.
18 All right. 2.15, consider and discuss. I was
19 given this two weeks ago, and I have called -- well, I went
20 to Ingram and looked at the space that was being made
21 available. I have several concerns. First of all -- and
22 I'll try to spell it out. It's kind of in the middle of the
23 building, is the portion that would be utilized, closed-in by
29 the Tax Office, to be utilized as a Tax Office. There's a
25 question that the City of Ingram needs to answer if they're
68
1 So, I personally would like to have another -- say, till
2 the next meeting to have something more firm, and I would
3 appreciate if maybe I could get one of the Commissioners, at
9 least one, or the Judge to -- and Paula to work with me on
5 something that would be satisfactory to the Court and to
6 possibly Paula, too, because I think this is the key. Paula
7 or her people are going to be in this facility, so it's going
8 to have to be something suitable to their working conditions.
9 So, I would -- and I don't mean to put it off, but I think
10 there needs to be some serious thought put into it, with
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those estimates.
COMMISSIONER LET2: I talked to Glenn about this, I
don't know, one day last week. And another option -- and I
don't know if this would work at all, from Paula's standpoint
-- is Norwest Bank building up there, they've got a large
building that they don't -- to me, it doesn't appear they use
that much of it. I don't know. Would it be suitable if they
would give us, you know, space inside their bank?
MS. RECTOR: Well, the only problem that I see with
that is I would have to keep their hours. I want to be in a
place where I can keep my own hours. If I choose to open at
7:00 in the morning and work through the lunch hour, which
right now is a bit of a problem, because I'm having to keep
Bill Ragsdale's hours, which they close between 12:00 and
1:00. People on the lunch hours like to take care of
70

1	
business. I would like	i .
to be in a location where I can call
2	the shots on the hours.	If we choose to be there Saturday
3	morning, even. I mean,	down the road that may be an option.
9	I want to have that ope	n.
5	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Would the office next to Judge
6	Ragsdale -- I mean, I'm	not familiar with that space. Would
7	it work?	
8	MS. RECTOR:	I've only looked through the window.
9	I don't know what all w	ould be involved. Glenn and I talked
10	about that just a while	ago. That's certainly an option that
11	we can look at look at.	For the security part of it, I would
12	feel pretty good in tha	t area, too.
13	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: I have a suggestion. Being
19	as that we have the Commissioner-elect of Precinct 4 here and
15	he's going to be #acing	this problem come January 1, I think
16	it would be a good idea	for him to -- and Glenn and Paula to
17	meet and discuss and co	me up with a plan that would be a
18	suitable plan.	
19	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: By Court order. We'll order
20	it.	
21	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: No, I want to ask him to
22	volunteer again.	
23	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Oh.
29	MR. GRIFFIN:	I'll be glad to work. You don't even
25	need a Court order.	
		71
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'm just being good
to you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I think we
need to look at other alternatives, if possible, because this
amount is a lot more than I envisioned originally.
MS. RECTOR: I agree.
7 MR. HOLEKAMP: And both of the estimates that I
8 got, there was the unanswered questions in their mind. They
9 weren't about to give me an estimate real low of saying, oh,
10 we can do it for 56,000 and then they get into a situation
11 where they've got do this, this, this, and this to -- to
12 satisfy. And, I think they were really cushioning
13 themselves.
19	COMMISSIONER	LETZ:	And considering the amount of
15	the expenditure, we're	going	to have to get an architect to
16	look at it, and formal	bids	-- we're definitely going to be
17~	within the area where	there	needs to be a formal bidding
18~~ process.
19		MR. HOLEKAMP: Well,	part of the problem	is, when
20	you take	a space in the middle,	air-conditioning on	both
21	sides, and you're closing up th	e middle, they were	going to
22i	really have to do some major re	novations to comply.	All
23~	right?			
29;		JllDGE DENSON: Well,	wherever this leads	-- and it
25~	probably	will lead, after this	year -- when we firs	t started
	I

I			
72
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talking about this, Paula, you know, you were sharing with
Bill and that wasn't costing us anything. And I understand
that wasn't an acceptable condition for you. And then, as an
alternate, we saw this as a possibility, based on $300 a
month, the renovations of which would -- the cost of
renovations would have resulted in a waived rent for a period
of time, a couple years or so. When you start looking at
regular commercial space available, we're going to run into a
bunch of dollars. I don't know, what does Bill pay for his
10 office?
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MR. HOLEKAMP: Thzee and a quarter.
JUDGE DENSON: $325?
MR. HOLEKAMP: A month. And then next door to him
is $300, as I understand it.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. I was about to say, I'm
familiar with that space next door, and it's as big or bigger
-- or larger than what J.P. Ragsdale has.
MS. RECTOR: I think it's a little bit --it's a
narrower building. It may be more space because it's longer,
but, you know, looking at the City office -- and before, I
had just gone out there that one time and kind of just looked
at it briefly, and then Glenn and I went out there and
started really looking at everything that needed to be done.
And my whole idea was to go into it as -- as cheaply as
possible, you know. And if that's a better alternative, for
73
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us to look at that place next to Judge Ragsdale's, then
that's fine with me. I'm just looking for a location in
Ingram to try to get into for the least amount of money.
JUDGE DENSON: Sure. And -- and hopefully y'all
can put all this together. But I know the Court is concerned
about creating another source of expense.
MS. RECTOR: Right, I understand.
JUDGE DENSON: That will go on indefinitely in the
future, just in an attempt to provide additional services to
people out in west Kerr County. So, I don't -- I don't want
you to be disappointed. You know, if we get to the point
where this is going to cost too much, we may have to punt.
MS. RECTOR: Well, that was why, when he told me
what it looked like it was going to cast for the City, that
I'm -- I'm not favor of spending that kind of money to put
one of my people in there. I'd rather look for another
alternative.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that note -- I mean, we
brought up Norwest Bank building. While it's not an ideal
location, it may not be a bad option to try out for a year
and see what the attendance is. Granted, you'd have to be
open from 9:00 to 5:00.
MS. RECTOR: The only problem we see with that is
our State computer. Once they put it in place, they foot the
74
1	cost of	that. If we have to start moving it, then it's going
2	to be at	the County's cost. So, wherever we go, I'd like to
3	know I'm	going to be there for a while, because that's
9	somethin	g that I'm working with the TexDOT right now, is
5	getting	the okay on the terminal through R.T.S.
6		COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
7		JUDGE DENSON: Let's buy some property out there
8	and move	Union Church.
9		COMMISSIONER LETZ: We already have property.
10		JUDGE DENSON: And then you can office there.
11		COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have a big lot there on
12	the loop	.
13		JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Glenn, thank you. 2.16,
19	consider	. and discuss appointment to Kerr Emergency 911
15	Network	Board. This is a continuation item that I've lust
16	carried	on the agenda ever since two or three meetings ago,
17I	and I'll	ask Commissioner Baldwin and Commissioner Letz if
18	they --	what do they want to do with this?
I
19		
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Commissioner Oehler's
20	name is	on here.
21i		COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It may have my name on it,
22	but it's	lust on there because --
23	j	JUDGE DENSON: He originally put it on there.
29	i	You said that
'all would
COMMISSIONER OEHLER
		y
:
25	' have a n	ame at the next meeting.
	i~	
75
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a name.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a name.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's hear it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gloria Anderson. I talked with
-- Buster and I talked with Gloria, and I think how we came
up with her is we were looking far someone who had the
tenacity to get something done over there, that would not
just nod their head. And we both talked at length with
Gloria and said that we -- in our opinion, that there was a
real problem with that 911 office, in general. I don't know
where the problem is, but it's ridiculous that that project
of getting 911 throughout the County has not been done yet.
And Gloria said that she'd be willing to tackle it. She
would look at it, see what the problem is, and come back into
this Court early in the year and give us a real timetable, or
make the director over there come up with a real timetable,
so we could give something to the public as to when 911 will
be implemented in Kerr County. Gloria says she will be able
to do it. She's going to be out of town a fair amount, but
she can work it into her schedule and would like to, just as
one of the boards she would be very happy to serve on,
because it's a very worthwhile function in her opinion. So,
anyway, that is this --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to add that, of
course, we all know Gloria as a lady of integrity, so I have
76

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no question, no problem at all appointing her to any board.
It's just getting her to accept it. She's a busy lady.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And she has agreed to accept
it. So, I move we appoint Gloria Anderson to 911 Network
Board.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second that motion.
JUDGE DENSON: Any questions? Comments?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: These guys are available.
JUDGE DENSON: Larry, do you have comment?
Questions?
MR. GRIFFIN: No. Sounds like a great choice, to
me.
JUDGE DENSON: Bill?
MR. WILLIAMS: No problem.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Back to the left arm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see.
JUDGE DENSON: 2.17.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm catching on now.
JUDGE DENSON: Consider and discuss approving a
final payment for Phase II, demolition of courthouse
renovation. Mike Walker.
MR. WALKER: Left arm?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Left thumb.
77
MR. WALKER: Thank you, Judge. In checking through
all the requirements that Mr. Gable was supposed to make --
Mart Incorporated was supposed to make in order to close out
the demolition phase of the project, which should have
1C
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1;
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lE
1.
lE
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2]
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2°
happened sometime around October the 1st, we find that
everything has been done, to the best of our knowledge,
except for three lien releases have not been signed off. At
least, we have not received anything on them. And those are
in -- probably in a contract amount of less than $10,000,
cumulative. And it's -- I'm just going to leave it to the
Court as to whether or not you want to sign off on that or
what you want to do. I mean, I cannot tell you that he's
satisfied everything that he needs to satisfy, but, there's
an electrical, the dumpster contractor, and -- oh, the crane,
the crane guy: To my knowledge, those are the only three
f.
what I would consider important sub -- subs or suppliers that
we do not have a lien release from. Other than that, he's
passed the City inspection. They don't certify it as ready
for occupancy because, obviously, it's not occupied. But,
other than that, they seem to have satisfied all the other
terms of the contract.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those liens have been filed? I
mean, did they file liens?
MR. WALKER: No, I'm saying we did not receive any
lien releases, excuse me, from those three. We have lien
78
releases from all the others. Whether the liens were filed
or not, I have no idea. I doubt that they are.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why haven't they been
released by now? I don't understand.
MR. WALKER: I'm just -- we never know. But --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who does know? I mean, who
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knows things like that?
MR. WALKER: Well, only Mr. Gable and his contract
between Mart and that subcontractor, and they know what their
status is. We don't. He has given us, you know, letters,
everything else practically that we need. But -- and your
legal counsel may tell you that that's not important, I don't
know, in the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would disagree with it if
he said that. r
MR. WALKER:
you anything other tha
COMMISSIONER
to insure that they've
MR. WALKER:
But I certainly could not recommend to
~ you consider --
LETZ: So, the purpose of this is just
been paid, correct?
Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would say we need to wait.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to wait.
JUDGE DENSON: Is this payment -- is this the
retainage?
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir.
79
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1 JUDGE DENSON: That's what this is.
2 MR. WALKER: It's approximately $18,000.
3 JUDGE DENSON: This is the statutory retainage --
9 MR. WALKER: Yes.
5 JUDGE DENSON: -- also set out in the contract.
6 MR. WALKER: Yes, sir.
7 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Just so everyone will
8 understand, this is the 10 percent retainage that, really, in
9 practice, represents the contractor's profit. The draws or
10 payments that he's already made -- in theory, anyhow --
11 should have been used to pay off all the subs, so all the
12 subs should be paid in full. So, the subs should not have
13 any reason to not have been paid or refused to sign a lien
14 release, so it raises a flag, if nothing else, on why those
15 lien releases are not forthcoming. Hopefully, we don't have
16 a situation where the contractor has to get the retainage to
17~ then turn around and pay the subs, because that's not going
18 to happen with this Court.
I
19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct.
20 MR. WALKER: Well, the final amount is 517,966.77,
Z1 is what he's owed, to answer your question. And, according
22' to his letter, the only thing that was left was City
23~ inspection. The City has inspected it, but will not issue a
29; Certificate of Occupancy. So, that's it. Just whatever you
I
25' want me to do; if you would like to keep that as a
80
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1 continuance item, or however you would like to handle that,
2 so that I don't have to file an agenda item each time. We
3 could leave it on there. But I just -- it's kind of gotten
4 to be a time --
5 JUDGE DENSON: Is he dunning you? Is he calling
6 you, saying, Where's my money?
7 MR. WALKER: No. Every once in a while he'll send
B something. He did a really good job on the bills; he sent
9 those to me, and he does have some lien releases done, like
10 Whelan and people like that, but he's just lacking these few,
11 and I guess he's just too busy. I don't know what the
12 problem is.
13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say until until he
14 furnishes us with the releases, it will not go back on the
15 agenda.
i
16 MR. WALKER: Okay. I'll just leave you alone,
17 then.
18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mike, while you're here,
19 though, 2.10 was consider and discuss hiring construction
20 consultant to oversee Phase III. We voted to hire a
21 consultant to oversee that construction for now like we did
22 at the renovation deal.
23 MR. WALKER: Mm-hmm.
29 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, we thought it would be
25 good for you to send a letter out to anyone who has a bid
S1
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package and let them know that we're going to do that. It's
come up because I had one contractor, anyway, mention to me
that he thought it would affect bidding, at least from their
company, if there was a consultant to be hired or not hired.
And I think we had already discussed earlier that we probably
were going to hire one. We also went ahead and said, yes,
we're going to hire a person to oversee the construction
standpoint, as opposed -- or in addition to the architect.
MR. WALKER: Okay, I wasn't aware of that. What --
what role -- you're not suggesting that they are a general
contractor? They're just the owner's representative? Is
that what we're talking about?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's what I -- yes. I
mean, just like we had Paul Powell out at the Ag Barn,
someone day-to-day, you know, to act as a point person to
talk to.
JUDGE DENSON: Project Manager.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Project Manager. As you are
well aware, we've had a -- at the jail, for example, the
architect that we had left with difficulties. Out there we
didn't have one, you know. And, seems like it's a -- it
would be a worthwhile thing for us to invest in.
MR. WALKER: Okay. So what would you specifically
want me to do?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just advise --
82
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1 MR. WALKER: Put a notice out?
2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To anyone that's picked up a
3 bid package, advise them that we are going to be hiring a
4 construction consultant and they will be -- that whoever we
5 award the contract to, that's their point person from a
6 construction standpoint. Obviously, you're still the
7 architect.
8 MR. WALKER: So we're not changing any of the
9 contract language, as proposed?
10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No, we're just letting
11 them be aware that we're going to hire a professional
12 consultant, probably an engineer, construction engineer of
13 some sort, and that is who is going to oversee the full
19 construction phase of it. In conjunction with you, of
15 course.
16 MR. WALKER: But as a liaison? He's not actually
17 going to supervise the work? The Judge just said Project
18) Manager; that's a different animal. Project Manager
19~ actually, you know, manages and coordinates the contract.
20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's more a liaison.
21I MR. WALKER: You're talking about, like, a liaison/
22i owner's rep?
23i COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
i
24~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess maybe we should try
25; to outline some of that. I don't clearly see it either.
83
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1		COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just like Paul Powell. When we
2	have a	-- when the concrete was poured out	there, when we
3	poured	the foundation, we wanted someone o	ut there to make
9	sure it	was done properly. He didn't have	the authority to
5	change	any construction or to do anything	other than just
6	verify	that what was in the contract --	
7		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't --	did he not have
authority to go make sure the bids were out, and to make sure
that --
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12
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's the one that built it. He
just was there as an over --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, something in that
area. Seemed like that Paul had the authority to make some
decisions. It just seemed like he did.
COMMISS~iONER OEHLER: He did. Some authority to
make, you know, simple day-to-day decisions about, you know,
whether this material was -- was like another alternate
material, whether it would be comparable, things like that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and that he signed off
on that kind of stuff. This person and Mike will be stepping
on each other's toes, and I guess we need to -- we need to
address that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I kind of think Mike's the
Project Manager. Has that not been somewhat accurate, Mike,
with what's been going on in the recent past with demolition
89

1	
and all?	., I. ;
2		MR. WALKER: Have I been Project Manager?
3		COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
9		MR. WALKER: No.
5		COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You've been an inspector,
6	sort of?	
7		MR. WALKER: Right. It is my job to administer the
8	contract,	as per agreement. My job is to administer the
9	contract,	which means checking drawings, submittals,
10	everythin	g to make sure that they -- everything that they do
11	complies,	reasonably, with the contract documents. That's my
12	job. So	-- and, of course, I use -- the engineers do that
13	also for	their portions of the work. So, it's -- I guess I
14	want to m	ake it clear to them what their -- what the other
15	player is	, because, obviously, they're -- if they have to
16	deal with	layers of approval, it makes a difference to them.
17	Probably	not a big difference to them, but I -- you're right,
18	they shou	ld know what to expect.
I
19		
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that the -- you
20	know, the	other projects I've been involved with were on the
21I	School Bo	ard with the Comfort School, and the architect did
22i	not -- I	mean, he was responsible from the contract
23'	standpoin	t. I'm sure the contractor is basically the same as
29~	the State	contract that those architects use. But we -- they
25	~ hired a -	- we hired a construction person to be on-site every
	i

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1 day to make sure that the, bids -- the project specifications
2 were followed. And that is the issue that -- you know, at
3 the justice center. Where the rub came is as to whether the
9 specs were followed. And the architects -- you know, I mean,
5 this way it eliminates that concern. We know whether they
6 are or not. And, generally, I didn't think architects did
7 that, you know. I mean, the -- I know the firm at the
8 Comfort School didn't. I know Di Stefano didn't. They
9 weren't there every day. This is something that we -- but we
10 did -- at the Ag Extension office, we hired Paul Powell at a
11 flat fee in addition to what the architect was being paid,
12 and he was there day-to-day on more of a construction
13 standpoint.
lq MR. WALKER: Well, certainly whatever the Court
15 desires. Basically, we're paid to watch and make sure what
16 goes in is -- is what is specified. In other words,
17I compliance with the contract documents. And so, I --
18I whatever you wish on that. I will just simply let them know
19~ that there will be -- I want to call it an owner's liaison
20 representative, if that's all right in terminology. But --
21) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you see yourself as that
22; person that we're trying to describe?
23~ MR. WALKER: That's what my contract with you says
i
29~ I have to do, is I have to make sure that they follow t e
25'x, drawings -- they have reasonable compliance with the contract
~ 86
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1 documents. That's my job. But it's -- if you want to spend
2 the additional money, that's up to you.
3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where did that kind of thing
q go wrong with the County jail?
5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we don't know that it
69 did.
~ JUDGE DENSON: We're finding out that --
g COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not the case.
g JUDGE DENSON: The County jail, when it was
10 constructed, the architect -- and I think a lot of that
11 probably had to do with the proximity of his office and all
12 -- was in Houston, and he was not there, or a representative
13 was not there on a daily basis.
lq COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The architect?
15 JUDGE DENSON: Right.
16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
1~ JUDGE DENSON: I think there were -- periodically,
18 they had someone there. And then, of course, they did have a
19 formal appearances where they would approve certain sections
20 that were done for drawing -- getting paid and some of those
21 things. I think where Jonathan is coming from is so you
22 don't have a good reason for a question on whether a contract
23 was followed if you have someone there daily overseeing
24 everything that's done, making sure that all the specs are
25 followed. Mike may -- Mr. Walker may, because of the
a~

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proximity of his office, be there a lot more than architects
were on the jail. But, I think Jonathan's -- his
recommendation as far as this person, whatever you want to
call him, is a good one. And that person would be in between
you and the contractor, he would be here daily, he would make
sure that all specs are met, and he would have some decision-
making capacity or abilities. You, of course, have to sign
off on every -- on different stages of completion, per the
contract, to get -- to okay a payment.
MR. WALKER: Well, it -- yes, sir. It's a little
more involved than that. We must make sure -- and, granted,
we're not there to tell them how to do the work. You know,
if you're after somebody to do that, that's a different
horse. If -- it is our job to insure that what goes in is --
is reasonably correct. If -- if what you're looking for is
someone to -- to daily monitor all the goings on and to be an
intermediary between the superintendent of the project, who's
really the one responsible for making sure it all goes in,
and the architects and engineers, then fine, we've worked
that way before. You are paying me 20 percent of my fee to
-- to watch this project during construction. So, I would --
I will reassure you that we will watch the project very
carefully. It -- anything important, any change in contract
amount, change in the scope of the work, even -- if you
decide not to do some office or something, that's something
88

1 we would bring back to the Court anyway for a change in
2 amount, change of contract time. But, for just ordinary,
3 everyday, this is right or this is wrong, that's what --
9 those are the decisions that you pay us to make. So, however
5 you wish to proceed on that.
6 JUDGE DENSON: Well, are you agreeing to modify
7 your contract with the County if that's necessary?
8 MR. WALKER: Did I say that?
9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He only --
10 JUDGE DENSON: You didn't put it in those words.
11 MR. WALKER: I didn't say that, no, sir.
12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He has already been hired as
13 being paid to do what we're fixing to duplicate.
14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what every architect
15 contract says. T~is contract that you have with the County
16 right now is basically the State form, as I recall.
17 MR. WALKER: Well, it is a -- it's a national form.
18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even worse.
19 MR. WALKER: But each contract is modified, and I
20 don't know what your contract with the -- I wouldn't even
21 want to get into what your contract with the -- the Justice
22 Center was. But --
23 JUDGE DENSON: It was American Institute of
24 Architects,. and that's what --
25~ MR. WALKER: But you can modify those, is what I'm
89
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1 saying, and sometimes they take out a portion of the -- let's
2 say in this instance, maybe because of proximity, you take
3 out some of the mare strenuous inspection requirements and
4 things like that. That's not unheard of. Or they hire a
5 local architect to do it or something like that. That's
6 quite common. But that -- that contract is made to be
7 modified, and ours is pretty straightforward. Hut -- and so
8 we have the traditional role of construction administration.
9 But I'm not in any way objecting to what you're suggesting,
10 other than I'm just -- I'm just pointing out what the finer
11 points are.
12 JUDGE DENSON: The finer points from your -- in
13 your opinion, is that we don't need to do what we're --
lq MR. WALKER: No, sir. I'm not -- not saying that.
15 I would be glad to sit down at length in a workshop and talk
16 about, you know, what the differences would be -- would
17 amount to.
18 JUDGE DENSON: We're without the newspaper, so you
i
19 can say whatever you want to.
20 MR. WALKER: Well, there's a lot of subtleties, and
21 I don't want to take up the Court's time with what all those
22~I are. But there are a lot of things that -- that maybe should
23I be clearly understood as to who's supposed to do what, so
24; that you perhaps don't duplicate fees and services. But,
25~ we're at your service, sir, whatever you wish.
90
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III
JUDGE DENSON: Whatever we wish?
MR. WALKER: Within reason.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't know -- are we
still hiring this intermediary between the contractor and the
architect?
JUDGE DENSON: Looks like Commissioner 1 and
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Commissioner 3 are going to be making a decision on this
after the 1st of the year with the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We may want to make it
today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, no, 'cause I think if
we're going to send -- if a contractor knows they're going to
be dealing with someone to do this, we need to let them know.
You know, if they're going do deal with the architect, we
need to let them know that. And the reason -- Mike, you
~;
weren't here. I've talked with contractors and they said it
will affect their bid through their work, with whether it's
an architect or a construction consultant. And that's the --
they said that when they worked with -- when they have worked
with architects, bids come in higher because it's more
difficult, because they're not dealing with a professional
construction person; they're dealing with a designer, more.
And that's just what I've been told, and it makes sense to
me. I know -- and it sounds like -- I don't know how you run
your business. It sounds like you are much more of a
91

~i
1 hands-on, from what you're saying. Because architects -- and
2 the others that I've had to deal with in other projects, in
3 some of the -- Pat Chumley did the Comfort School. He was
4 not a hands-on, he was not there. He even encouraged the
5 school to hire a consultant to oversee it. And it sounds
6 like you're encouraging us not to do it.
7 MR. WALKER: I'm not trying to encourage or
8 discourage you one way or the other. You know, you're --
9 you're paying us by the hour, and we have a max cap
10 percentage. So, I guess you could look at it like, well,
11 it's to your advantage to -- to bring somebody else in.
12 Whether you wind up paying, cumulative, us together more than
13 you would have just paid me to do it remains to be seen.
19 But, the -- there is a certain amount of time that we have to
15 spend on the job ~o make sure that things are going right,
16 regardless of who gets paid for what. Because it's our
17 protection in case something does go wrong.
18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
I
19 MR. WALKER: We observe. We do not supervise, we
20 observe. And, so, all I can do there is -- is I would be
21I glad, again, to sit down and talk over all the -- the
22i subtleties of the pluses and minuses of doing it or not doing
23j it, but we are prepared to do it all. And I would not say
241, that it's not necessary. I just simply say that we're
251 prepared to -- to meet the construction administration
92

i
1 provisions of the contract. I would suggest that -- we're
2 having a pre-bid meeting here next Wednesday, and I would
3 like to be able to tell them at that time for sure if that's
9 -- and I'm not saying we have to know then, but it would be
5 better than waiting two more weeks and tell them. But, I
6 mean, we will be issuing addenda anyway. I can certainly put
7 that in the addenda that we will do on that long before they
8 draw the bottom line and send the bid in.
9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This will be the last meeting
10 until the contracts come in.
11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have a second meeting this
12 month, don't we?
13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, maybe we should -- you
19 know, we could -- we're going to meet tomorrow, and we could
15 probably take this up tomorrow again. And the reason I'm
16 saying that is 'cause I think Commissioner Baldwin and I are
17I going to meet with the Commissioner-elect and Judge-elect
18 this afternoon and go over with them this topic a little bit.
I
19 And we could recess on this till tomorrow. We didn't vote an
20 it -- we voted to do it, but -- I guess we've got to send
21I that --
22i COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can recess one day. One
i
23j day, right?
24; JUDGE DENSON: Correct.
25' COMMISSIONER LETZ: Come back in tomorrow.
i
93
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1 MR. WALKER: I would respectfully request that
2 anything that does involve that, that -- that you would
3 consult with us about that so that we can sort of fill you in
4 on the pluses and minuses, since -- some of you are in the
5 construction business, but this is -- this is sort of an
6 animal of a different color. So, we would be glad to sit
7 down with you and talk about it, but we'd like to be in on
8 the -- at least when you make the final decision --
9 discussion.
10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will probably be tomorrow.
11 JUDGE DENSON: Why don't we lust recess on this
12 until after immediately following that canvassing tomorrow
13 afternoon?
19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll discuss it this
15 afternoon. ~
16 JUDGE DENSON: And just, you know, give us input of
17 what comes out of y'all's meeting.
IS COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, the canvassing of
20 votes, Your Honor, requires two members of this Board? But
21 to do something official with that would require three
22 people.
23 JUDGE DENSON: Correct.
24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. So, are you going
I
25~ to be here tomorrow?
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1	
COMMISSIONER	i
LETZ: Are you going to be here
2	tomorrow?	
3	COMMISSIONER	HALDWIN: Possible. I work here.
4	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: You going to be here tomorrow?
5	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Possibly.
6	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: I possibly will be here, too.
7	JUDGE DENSON:	Well, possibly y'all will get a
8	paycheck next time.	
9	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Possibly.
10	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: We can probably have a quorum
11	tomorrow.	
12	MR. WALKER:	Would you please advise me of when I
13	need to be in here?	
14	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: I'd be here at 1:30 tomorrow.
15	That's when we're meeti	ng, canvassing at 1:30.
		
16	JUDGE DENSON:	Yeah. And immediately following
17	that -- that will be pr	obably take 15, 20 minutes. I don't
18	know.	
19I	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: At least.
20	JUDGE DENSON:	May take as long as 30 minutes. So
21.	--	
22i	MR. WALKER:	2 o'clock?
23	i JUDGE DENSON:	2 o'clock.
24	; MR. WALKER:	See you then.
25'	' JUDGE DENSON:	We'll lust put it that way. We'll
95

a
1 recess on the Commissioners Court agenda until 2 o'clock
2 tomorrow afternoon.
3 MR. WALKER: Okay, thank you.
9 JUDGE DENSON: Anything further today? George?
5 How have you been?
6 MR. WEST: Doing fine. I just wanted to -- I want
7 to say right quick, when I saw Item 2.10 on the agenda, I
8 said, Praise the Lord, because you're going to have somebody
9 representing the County on the job. So, don't let this thing
10 slip away from you. All right, that's all I got to say.
11 Mike's a good guy, I love Mike Walker, but you've got to have
12 somebody there every time the contractor's working or you'll
13 wind up with cracks in the floor like you do out at the jail,
14 the doors won't work, the fill wasn't compacted. I mean,
15 that's what this buy's going to do, make sure you get your
16~ money's worth, you know. So --
17 JUDGE DENSON: Well, Mike -- what he's saying, and
18 you understand that --
I
19 MR. WEST: Yeah.
20 JUDGE DENSON: -- as well as I do. Mike has
21i specifically contracted with us to perform that function.
22~ MR. WEST: If he's going to be there, that's great.
23j He can do it if he's just there.
24; JUDGE DENSON: He's getting paid a fee for that
25~ very purpose.
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	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	He drives contractors	crazy.
	MR. WEST: I	had him	over on the Riverside	Nature
Center; I	know what he	can do.		
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	I mean, the cords on	the
venetian	blinds over here had	to be a certain length	to suit
him.				
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. We're in recess until
2 o'clock tomorrow afternoon.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Except for the Executive
Session this afternoon.
JUDGE DENSON: Excuse me. We're in zecess on our
morning agenda until 2 o'clock tomorrow afternoon.
(The morning session concluded at 11:28 a.m.)

97

1 JUDGE DENSON: We'll go on record. It's 23 to
2 2:00, the 9th of November, '98. As a matter of -- of our
3 agenda from this morning, I received a call from Truby Hardin
9 lust before lunch, that they want to accept the bid on the
5 Gradeall for $16,500 from T --
6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: MT.
7 JUDGE DENSON: TMT in San Antonio. So we ğeed a
8 motion to that effect.
9 COMMISSIONER LACKEY: The machine`s f.o.b.
10 Amarillo.
11 JUDGE DENSON: I understand that.
12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
lq JUDGE DENSON: Further questions, comments on it?
15 All in favor?`
~.
16 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
1~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, do you know what we
18 budgeted for that Gradeall?
19 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I forget how much it
20 was.
21 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Twenty-four, I think
22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's some extra money to put
23 gravel in front of the Ag Barn.
2q COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You'll have to remind them of
25 that.
98

1 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Next we have our regular
2 standing Executive Session relative to pending and passible
3 litigation. Likewise, I had a call lust before lunch from
9 Tom Pollard's office, said that he had nothing to update us
5 on. So that's not necessary.
6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what about this here?
7 Is this something that we need to talk about or be briefed
8 on?
9 JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. That's a letter that I
10 received -- this was simply the lawyers amending their
11 petition, based on the -- the last meeting that we had where
12 we got briefed from Tom. It's lust some legal form.
13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. They're moving
19 forward with what we talked about.
15 JUDGE D~NSON: Right, where they're not presently
16 trying to collect ox file a claim for that -- that lack of
17 concrete that's called for in the spec, the thickness of the
18 slab question. They're going to leave that lust open for the
19 future. And that's about it.
20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
21 JUDGE DENSON: Now, we do have another Executive
22 Session matter that came to my attention after we had posted
23 our regular agenda, and that's 3.2, personnel question
29, regarding Collection Coordinator and some of the procedures
I
25~ that have been employed in that department. So, at 20
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minutes of two, we'll close our Commissioners Court meeting
and go into Executive Session.
(Off-the-record discussion.)
(The open session was closed at 2:19 p.m., and an
Executive Session was held, the transcript of which
is contained in a separate document.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, it`s 2:15, the 9th of
November, 1998. We've closed our Executive Session. No
action will be taken; however, we'll take up the 3.2 matter
again tomorrow, which will be the 10th, at approximately
2:15, following the Commissioners Court open meeting item
that we continued earlier today, that being talking about a
possible Project Manager on our remodeling.
At this time, I'd like to ask Glenn Holekamp, our
Maintenance Supervisor, to give us an informational item or
report on Christmas lighting and some of the problems he's
encountered in the last week or so that are of a serious
nature.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Yes. And hopefully most of
them are resolved as of last Friday. We had an instance two
weeks ago when they started hooking up the electrical on all
the trees and plugs and lights and stuff out here on the
!' trees, and it was on a Saturday, and they plugged everything
in out here at this -- if y'all know the Jefferson and Earl
g, Garrett -- the big cedar tree out here, there's a panel, and
>~ it's wired to the top of our courthouse here. There's a -- a
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line running up there and they plugged them in. Then Monday,
we had no air-conditioning at all in the annex; all power was
out. Other than, you know, we did still have power for
computers and lights, but none of the air-conditioning. All
three-phase was out.
I had to -- I instructed -- I notified the Ladies'
Chamber of that problem, and they said that was really not --
they didn't think this was their issue. But I called Ed
Thompson, the engineer -- electrical engineer fellow. He
came out and he confirmed that there is a dead ground fault
out here in the yard somewhere, and it had blown the main
breaker on the three-phase line, 'cause they had wired into
one leg of the three-phase up on the roof. So, he instructed
me -- his professional opinion was to take it down, pull it
off there. It doesn't belong there. So we did that.
COMMISSIONER LET2: Pulled the line off?
MR. HOLEKAMP: The line off of the roof.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. HOLEKAMP: 3o the Women's Chamber came Friday.
They wanted to know what were we going to do about furnishing
them electricity? Well, my position was it really was not
our responsibility to furnish electricity out here, but we
would work with them in any way we could to resolve their
problem. Wayne -- and I don't know his name -- with Cypress
electric came that day. He indicated absolutely that it
101

could not be up here on this, because those breakers are set
1
2 real sensitive so you don't burn things up. His
3 recommendation was to ask KPUB to swing a line, a temporary
q line from the -- across Eaxl Garrett over here with a
5 temporary pole so they'd have electricity at that tree. The
6 rest of the trees axe okay.
But the ladies, I believe -- the Ladies Chamber
7
g representatives, I believe, in my opinion, they understood on
9 Friday, and everything seemed to be okay. And, if y'all hear
10 anything to the contrary, please share with me, 'cause I
don't hear until usually there's an imminent crisis. So,
11 -
12 we're trying real hard to work with them to resolve the -
13 the electrical problem. But I -- I still cannot understand
why someone would take the electricity up there to a
1q lu ins
15 three-phase line when you have so many multiples of p 9-
16 out here. It`s kind of not very safe.
17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm confused, from the
lg standpoint of why does -- whY can't we lust tie into another
19~ line out there? Why does KPUB need to drop a temporary line?
20 MR. HOLEKAMP: We have no other service outside
here unless they go all the way over here to Main. None of
21. more
22i these breakers have the capabilities of hanging any
Y3% electricity on them. That's why they ran it to the top of
2q~ the courthouse last year, because it overloaded the stuff on
25'~ Main, so they lust strung a cable to the top and tied it into
102
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1 one leg of the three-phase.
2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At some point -- I mean, it
3 seems like last year we -- I mean, every year we're at our
9 limits for adding more lights. That somehow we need to get a
5 -- I guess, a plan as to where -- and to get some lines xun
6 out in the yard with a new breaker or something. I mean, it
7 just seems that this -- I mean, it's dangerous for us to be
8 pushing the limits on all these breakers.
9 JUDGE DENSON: Mm-hmm.
10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that's how fires start.
11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, and that brings a good point.
12 The electrician was sitting here in the meeting Friday
13 afternoon, and the ladies were saying, Well, we want to have
19 a popcorn machine, we want to have a vending machine, we
15 would need two coffee pots and another pot for hot chocolate.
16 He said, Whoa, ladies, you can't. It will not handle any
17 more; nowhere can you plug more in. And it wasn't me saying
18 it. That was the electrician who has been working with them.
19~ He's saying, You'll need to maybe buy the big bags of
20 popcorn, you know, and he was trying to head off problems.
21I He said that it could -- you know, if they keep doing this,
22~ it's going to be black. It's going to -- everything is going
23~ to be dark, 'cause they maxed out.
24~ COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Zsn't there available
25' electrical up here in the old jail?
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1 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't -- all of that's been
2 disconnected with the demolition. Except for the -- see,
3 they took all -- that's all on that big breaker now. That's
9 down here.
5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm.
6 MR. HOLEKAMP: And they -- it is seal sensitive on
7 that three-phase.
8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was all three-phase too?
9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes.
10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Even all the lighting and
11 everything in there, huh?
12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Huh?
13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Even all the lighting and
19 everything in the 7ai1 is three-phase?
15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not so sure about the --
16 I'm not sure about the lighting. But, the elevator and the
17 three big air conditioners on the roof, four air-conditioners
18 on the roof were all to that three-phase line. So, when it
19 goes out, all of those things are dead.
20 JUDGE DENSON: Is KPUB -- the line they're going to
21 drop, are they doing that free or --
22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, the electrician here indicated
23 to us that he was going to ask them if they would, 'cause he
24 was going to set his own temporary pole like he sets, you
25~ know, at a residence under construction. That's what he
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indicated in this meeting the other day. It was kind of like
he was going to help those ladies put that all together.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. But we have not obligated
MR. HOLEKAMP: I have not, sir, no. Because I -- I
think that needs to be a -- 'cause you're talking an
ourselves to spend any money?
expensive item if we do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know where all the --
the lines are that axe buried out in the yard?
MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes?
MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir, I don't think there's many
that do. I'm not so sure that that's not where our ground
fault is, is in there. I have no way of knowing. But I
would assume that they need to find it, 'cause they have
r
strung all these wires on these pipes out here, as you're --
have you noticed?
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Yeah.		
	MR. HOLEKAMP:	If they short	out,	we could hurt
someone.	If there's a	ground fault, th	at's	straight juice.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: They coul	d --	they should be
able to	find the fault	fairly easily, I	mean, with equipment?
	MR. HOLEKAMP:	Yeah, once it	gets	started, but they
haven't	even -- they ha	ven't got there	yet.	The electricians
in town	-- basically, t	here are two or	three. They keep
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saying the other one did .it, the other one did it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nobody wants to take
_e~...,.,~;n;lity. I don't blame them.
MR. HOLEKAMP: So, you know, if the Court wants me
to take a more active role to provide them with electricity,
you know, I'll be glad to work with them, but I really didn't
think it was my place, as Maintenance, to do any more than
coordinate, you know, the lights, themselves, in the trees,
and show them where they turn on and the electrical part.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think at some point
-- this is probably another next-year project, that we really
need to look at this. I think it`s a good project to do. I
don't know that we should spend a whole lot of money on it
this year. I think probably lust figure out, the best we
can, to make it work this year. It's too late to go into
major electrical work, but it's something to think about, you
know, in the future. But if KPUB -- they're going to do
that, drop that line, that solves the problem this year. We
can just disconnect that other line that goes to the ground,
i~ correct?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Wayne -- and I wish I could -- from
!~ Cypress Electric, he indicated that he was going to go on
3~~ behalf of these women to ask them. Do you know his last
q~ name?
5'i COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't. I know who you're
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the stage area?
MR. HOLEKAMP: I believe.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We put in a new panel and
rewired some stuff, and what was all that about? I thought
that was supposed to heal the problem.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That healed the problem in the
stage that they set up in the front, I believe.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
MR. HOLEKAMP: See, last year, I don't think they
had Christmas lights on all of the pipes. Now all of those
plugs now are filled up with Christmas lights that last year
had. none. So, now that electricity is being utilized for
that, so now we're -- we're going to have a problem with
getting enough electricity for that other stuff on the
evenings of their~;programs.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we put a pole out
here, that fixes all that?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, that just fixes that tree.
JUDGE DENSON: The only way I can see getting this
thing resolved properly is making Commissioner Baldwin the
liaison.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I've got is questions, I
don't	have	any answers.	I mean, we need to fix this thing.
What	do we	do?	
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Commissioner-elect Bill
108

1 talking about, though. That would be an admirable
2 contribution.
3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. But the electrician that
9 they're using, I think, on-site on the weekends is John
5 Flowers with Guadalupe. And, so, I don't know.
6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think one of the questions
7 I hear -- I hear a question in all of that, is that when we
8 first started all this this year, is we said to those ladies,
9 you know, that our Maintenance Department is very limited in
10 the activity. And, I guess we need to clarify that with
11 Glenn, let him know exactly where he is and what -- however
12 he's supposed to go to assisting these people, how much money
13 to spend and all that. I think I'm hearing you say that kind
19 of --
15 MR. HOL~KAMP: Yeah. And I pretty well feel like
16 that -- that involvement is necessary, as far as coordination
17 and helping them find where the timers have been put in the
18 courthouse and on the roof. But, physically going out there
19 and wiring it for them or calling an electrician to define
20 their problem out here in the ground, I don't know if,
21 really, that's what I should be doing.
22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That may be our problem.
23 What did they -- we did something last year down here in the
24 basement of this building here to get past the computer room,
I
25~ and there's a little door that goes outside from underneath.
107

1 Williams hasn't volunteered for anything.
2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. That is so
3 true, and we'll take care of that this afternoon. Put that
4 on our list.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I think he needs to get
his feet wet. This is a good one to get wet on.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
gw JUDGE DENSON: As long as you're not holding onto
9 that pipe.
10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If he chooses to hold onto
11 the pipe, that's his business.
12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
13 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Thank you, Glenn. I wanted
14 Glenn to. come in and tell us about this, 'cause he's been
15 tearing his hair gout over it.
16 MR. HOLEKAMP: I lust don't know how much money. I
17 think it's a money issue, as to how much electrical people do
18 you want me to hire to resolve the problem for them? It's --
19 I guess my -- Buster, you're right, I have a question. Where
20 do you --
21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there's a short out
22 there, to me, that's our problem. I mean, we need to get
23 that fixed. Whether we plug Christmas lights into it or Russ
29 Duncan plugs a coffee pot into it.
25~ ~ MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay.
109
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1	COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, why not?
2	MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank you, Buster.
3	JUDGE DENSON: It's 2:35, and we're in recess until
4	tomorrow.
5	(Commissioners Court recessed at 2:35 p.m.)
6	- - - - - - - - - -
7	
8	
9	
10	C E R T I F I C A T E
11	The above and foregoing is a true and complete
12	transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
13	Official Reporter of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
19	Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
15	DATED at""Kerzville, Texas, this 17th day of November,
	~.
16	1998.
17	
18	
	~~~ ~Y/~'.Cl~
19	
	Kathy B ik
20	Certified Shorthand Reporter
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	113

1 Williams hasn't volunteered for anything.
2	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	That's true. That is	so
3	true, and we'll take care of that	this afternoon. Put	that
4	on our list.			
5	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Y	eah, I think he needs	to get
6	his feet wet. This is	a good one	to get wet on.	
7	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	Yeah.	
8	JUDGE DENSON:	As long	as you're not holding	onto
9d that pipe.
10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If he chooses to hold onto
11 the pipe, that's his business.
12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
13 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Thank you, Glenn. I wanted
14 Glenn to come in and tell us about this, 'cause he's been
15 tearing his hair but over it.
16 MR. HOLEKAMP: I lust don't know how much money. I
17 think it's a money issue, as to how much electrical people do
18 you want me to hire to resolve the problem for them? It's --
19 I guess my -- Buster, you're right, I have a question. Where
20 do you --
21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there's a short out
22 there, to me, that's our problem. I mean, we need to get
23 that fixed. Whether we plug Christmas lights into it or Russ
29 Duncan plugs a coffee pot into it.
I
25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay.
~ 109
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To me, that --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He could put a tent out there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Put a tent with a computer,
start collecting fines? But to me, see, that kind of thing
is -- to me, is our problem.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless that is the -- the
only reason that thing is out there is for Christmas lights.
MR. HOLEKAMP: That is absolutely the only reason,
sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's their problem,
then.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: You sure change your mind
fast.
MR. HOLEKAMP: We really don't -- there's plugs
along the outside of the courthouse. Y'all might see them
along the wall here. Now, we are responsible for those that
axe attached to the building, because we use them fox certain
functions and that sort of thing, plugging in. But out here
to this tree and to these -- to these few trees right there
out that way is strictly a -- a Christmas light function.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much do they owe us from
the 9th of July party? We can start running a little tab
here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- but if someone
110
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1 gets hurt by that plug that is shorted, the County's the --
2 it's the County's plug at that point.
3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, but the -- one
good thing is
4 there's no way anyone can get hurt now, because there's no
5 electricity to it. It's been pulled off of the courthouse.
6 Now, once they hook it up, then maybe there is a danger.
~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems to me it would be a
8 lot easier to fix the short than figure out where to put that
9 power. I mean, I don't know where that line -- I have no
10 idea how those lines run out there. But if we can get that
11 line rerouted into another circuit, that covers the grounds.
12 That shouldn't cost that much. We figure out -- you know,
13 somebody to figure out where these lines even are.
19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce? Don't we need to fix
15 the short, regard}ess of what it's doing? I mean, doesn't it
16 -- whoever fixes it, I don't care.
l~ MR. HOLEKAMP: Wayne with Cypress said the other
18 day that before any service would be hooked up and before any
19 breaker was turned on, the short has to be found.
20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hallelujah.
21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. But do you
y'all want me to
22 just go ahead and say, Wayne, do that, and the County -- my
23 maintenance will take care of that? Or, just see how they
29 want to handle it?
25~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Personally, I say that we do
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it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Up to the short. I mean, I'm
not putting in a new service. We don't want to pay for new
service.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Finding the short, you don't
have a problem with that.
COMMISSIONER HALDWIN: I don't.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay, I understand. See, what
really surprised me, and I don't -- Z'm not an electrician,
by any means, but it did not make -- throw any of the
breakers at the tree when the short happened. It went all
the. way to the top; it bypassed the breakers. I don't
understand that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's why I'm not an
electrician.
r
MR. HOLEKAMP: So, rightfully, when the short
happened, it should have thrown the breakers at the tree, but
it did not. It went into the courthouse and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably 'cause they have a
real -- a 90-inch breaker or something.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Probably. So, these are things that
-- they were all volunteers that put all that stuff in, you
got to understand; they aren't all electricians, either.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we blame this on Ray
Lehman?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, why not?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank you, Buster.
JUDGE DENSON: It's 2:35, and we're in recess until
tomorrow.
(Commissioners Court recessed at 2:35 p.m.)
C E R T I F I C A T E
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
Official Reporter of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at'"Kerzville, Texas, this 17th day of November,
~.,
1998.
lF'~~ clC
Kathy B ik
Certified Shorthand Reporter
113