i^`
L


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
COMMISSIONERS COURT
Emeraencv Session
December 9, 1998
10:00 a.m.
Kerr County Commissioners Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: ROBERT A. DENSON, County Judge
H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
T. H. "BUTCH" LACKEY, Commissioner Pct. 2
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 9
Fde1yW w1X~-AB. ie~iiME=
BILLI~O MEEKER
Chrk County Coun, Kerr Colony, Twe
®Y' aPwY

r^
~.

1 On Friday, December 9, 1998, an Emergency Session of
2 Commissioners Court was held in the Kerr County Commissioners
3 Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the
9 following proceedings were had in open court:
5 P R O C E E D I N G S
6 JUDGE DENSON: Good morning. It's 10 o'clock.
7 It's the 9th of December, '98. I called an emergency meeting
8 this morning, because of possible public safety and health
9 reasons. I received a letter yesterday from the County
10 architect with reference to the courthouse remodeling, and it
11 was pointed out -- well, a number of things were pointed out
12 in the letter, one of which that does involve possible safety
13 issues to the general public.
14 Before we get into all that, I want to take up an
15 informational matter so she can get back to work. Laurinda
16 Boyd approached me in the hall a while ago, and said that
17 they want to put a Christmas tree without lighting over here
18 on the lawn.
19 MS. BOYD: Wherever it looks good with their
20 decorations.
21 JUDGE DENSON: In the past, 9-H has been involved
22 in erecting a Christmas tree at Inn of the Hills.
23 MS. BOYD: Yeah, but they're not doing that this
24 year.
25 JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, they're not doing that this
-T---- _. _._ __. ~-- ------

!.^



1 year. The project was -- all the kids are ready to do it and
2 excited and so forth, have all the materials and so forth.
3 And, because that project is -- isn't going to go forward,
9 she asked if they could put the tree up on the courthouse
5 lawn, and I wanted the Commissioners -- we're not in a
6 position legally where we can vote on that today. It's not
7 on any kind of agenda, but it sounds like to me that it's the
8 type of project that all -- everybody in the County
9 government should embrace. And so I think, unless there's
10 some objection from the Commissioners, do it.
11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it would be an
12 honor. I think it would be an honor to the courthouse to
13 have the Hunt 4-H group come.
14 MS. NEMEC: I just want to give you some
15 information.
16 JUDGE DENSON: Sure.
17 MS. NEMEC: We -- the Women's Chamber had been
18 asked by some of the Tivy students if they could put trees
19 up, because they were used to doing it at Inn of the Hills,
20 and we told them that they had to come to Commissioners
21 Court; that that's not something we did last year, and since
22 that was going to be something new, that it would have to be
23 approved, which the Court -- I just want to make you aware of
24 that. The thought is already there with some other schools,
25 and they may be --
3
		I
	1	JUDGE DENSON: We'll have plenty of trees.
~	2	MS. NEMEC: The ma be askin
y y g y'all the same
	3	thing. I just wanted to make you aware of that.
	9	JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Well, I mean, I think the
	5	Court's response to Tivy High School is going to be same as
	6	to 9-H. I think that's super.
	7	MS. BOYD: Thanks, appreciate it.
	8	JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Back to the emergency matter
	9	for which I called the meeting. And let me preface this.
	10	whole subject matter by saying that I think I can speak for
	11	the Commissioners Court as a whole, that we think the Women's
	12	Chamber is doing an excellent job as far as y'all's efforts
	13	in this Christmas lighting of the courthouse, and all your
	19	hard work last year and this year. The project, itself, is
~'`
~		
	15	-- is tremendous. We think it's truly a beneficial effort
	16	for the entire community, not simply the Kerr County
	17	Courthouse.
	18	But, there's a couple of things that have come up that
	19	really concern me, and in this letter that Mike Walker wrote,
	20	he talks about some of the lighting and strings of lighting
	21	that are laid on the ground, that people can walk over, and
	22	also the lighting on -- electrical wires and lighting on some
	23	of the handrails around the courthouse. I'm going to have
	29	Mr. Walker speak in just a moment. He thinks it's an
	25	extremely dangerous practice, and there's some liability
~		9

r-~

r^"~
1 reasons why the Commissioners Court should certainly be
2 concerned. And it may be something that we need to take
3 action on, like, immediately; therefore, the emergency
4 meeting that we're in now.
5 I asked the County Attorney -- and I see Mr. Motley's
6 here, and I asked the Maintenance Department, which Mr.
7 Holekamp is out of town right now, but we have Alex, his
8 Supervisor of Maintenance in Glenn's absence, and he's here.
9 So, let me ask Mr. Walker at this time to come forward, and
10 -- and set the stage here so we can deliberate and come to
11 some kind of conclusion on this. Mr. Walker?
12 MR. WALKER: Thank you, Judge. Excuse my voice; I
13 don't have a whole lot left here. But, I would like to
19 explain, first of all, I think nobody here -- none of our
15 group is at all concerned about anything other than -- than
16 public safety. And also, as I asked you in the letter, which
17 I don't believe you've mentioned yet, the fact that we need
18 to instruct bidders as to how they are to -- to deal with the
19 provisions that have been made for putting up the temporary
20 lighting for the Christmas lights. That's really how we
21 became involved in it. I have served and helped the Women's
22 Chamber in the past to try to figure out how to put lights on
23 the courthouse, and I am certainly in -- very much in favor
24 of -- of showing the season on the courthouse lawn.
25 Our concern was -- as you mentioned before, was also one
5

r-
~.
r

1 of public safety. As a professional that's charged by the
2 State of Texas, as is our engineer, with public safety, we
3 felt it necessary to address these issues, and also to tell
9 us if -- if this is going to take place on a regular basis,
5 which it appears it has for -- for many years now. If you're
6 getting ready to do all this work on the annex and build new
7 walls, should we address that in our bid documents, which are
8 out and due to come in on December 19th, as to how this stuff
9 will be attached in the future? So, that's what brought it
10 to bear, and I can talk about any part of that.
11 Ed Thompson from Lux Engineering is here. He's in
12 charge of the electrical there, and he does all the
13 electrical design and is very familiar with the circuitry in
14 the courthouse, and will also be able to, perhaps, answer
15 some questions.
16 JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Go ahead, Commissioner
17 Baldwin.
18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'd like to just start
19 with Chapter 1, if we could.
20 MR. WALKER: Chapter 1?
21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My -- Paragraph 1. My
22 question is, the drilling and setting of expansion anchors in
23 the masonry. That was before I arrived here, but I remember
29 sitting in the courtroom coming on, about the debate of
25 hiring an engineer and architect to redo the front end, how
6

r-~
L
/^
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
the front of the courthouse was going to sink and fall and
everybody was going to to be killed and all this stuff. And
so, they restructured or rebuilt the columns. I mean, those
are brand-new.
MR. WALKER: Some of that is new cast stone.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Some of that is brand-new
cast stone, very expensive. And what I'm reading here is
that we're drilling holes -- someone is drilling holes and
setting expansion anchors in that masonry out there. I went
out there, I couldn't see it. I looked for it, and I don't
-- I can't find anything like that, but that doesn't mean
anything. Can you enlighten me? I'm the one that's
concerned about it. Would you enlighten me on this, where
this is taking place, and what it's about?
MR. WALKER: Yeah. About three years ago, when
taking a representative from the Texas Historical
Commission's architect around the courthouse, at that -- gust
coincidentally, at that time, the Christmas -- the Ladies'
Division was in the process of putting the lights up for the
courthouse. And we were walking around on the roof, and
that's when she discovered -- because she wanted to find out
how they were attaching it. She went up and looked at it,
and they were drilling holes in the cast stone and putting
some expansion shield -- a little plastic expansion shield,
and then screwing interior-grade teacup hooks in there to
7
	
	1
~^

2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
wrap the lights on. And, because of our need to be in and
around and on the building, we have noticed over the years
that those teacup hooks have rusted out, and they're -- in
addition -- I'll just stop right there and let that go.
I mean, there's more to be said about the roof and what's
going un.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Mike, I'm just kind of
-- because of some of my gifts from God, I'm discerning here
that maybe that's a bad thing. Is that what you're saying,
that's bad for us?
MR. WALKER: Yeah.' What she pointed out in a
letter to the Judge was that that deteriorates the stone
badly. Water goes in and splits the cast stone. As you
probably are aware from reading your County history, at one
time that facade fell off back in the '50's, and was -- was
replaced. And, so, it's -- it's something that requires
constant vigil to make sure that you don't lose part of your
courthouse again. And I'm not saying that the teacup hooks
are going to make the front of the courthouse fall off. It's
all part of a maintenance program to -- to take care of that,
which of course, is being largely addressed in this upcoming
renovation.
JUDGE DENSON: Here, let me -- let's stay focused
on why we're really here. What was done in the past was
done, and there's really nothing that can be done about that
r^ 8
1
i"'~ 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
r
at this time, okay? One, we need to talk about, I guess, a
concern about teacup hooks. Are they being installed now if
they should not be? And I think I've -- just from observing
the ladies from the Women's Chamber, I don't think that's
currently being done. Next, issue, and of paramount
importance in today's meeting, is the safety issues.
MR. WALKER: Okay.
JUDGE DENSON: Now, in connection with the safety
issues, we need to decide whether we need to have something
removed, if we need to remove any kind of hazard that might
be in place, per your recommendation. Let's look at that.
And then, as far as attachments for the new construction, I
don't think we can deal with that today. We can certainly
discuss it. That's going to have to be -- I guess you've
already sent out the contract -- I mean, sent out bids.
MR. WALKER: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: That's going to have to be -- I
think you alluded to it in your letter -- a change order, if
the Court should decide --
MR. WALKER: If we should decide.
JUDGE DENSON: So, now, that gets us back to --
really, the major issue to deal with today is the safety
issues. Commissioners, do y'all think that having Mike --
asking Mike, as our architect, to work with the Women's
Chamber on eliminating what he believes to be liability or
9
1
~-- 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
L~
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
r~-.
safety problems with the lighting is the way to do it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my only question is --
is where -- where is our staff, our maintenance staff? Seems
like to me there should be a plug-in there somewhere. But if
y'all don't think so, that's fine with me. I mean, we're
paying this guy big bucks to do that kind of thing, and do we
have someone already on the payroll that can be doing that
also?
JUDGE DENSON: No, I agree with you that, as far as
the hands-on, our -- maybe Mike can work with our Maintenance
Department and the Maintenance Department could work with the
Women's Chamber in eliminating any of these hazards. That's
what I want to really focus on and come to some decision on
today. The other stuff, we can handle. And I don't think
currently any teacups or any -- any -- the Women's Chamber
are doing anything as far as messing up the courthouse, the
historical character of our courthouse.
MR. WALKER: Judge, there is an issue there that we
need to perhaps discuss, then. There are brand-new teacup
hooks screwed in the corners of those windows that the lights
are strung around.
JUDGE DENSON: There are?
MR. WALKER: Yes. Including the ones that you just
paid to have restored.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, let's ask -- the ladies didn't
10
-----i.



,~
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
do that, did you?
MS. KIRBY: There was some new ones put in. They
were white, that was put in around the windows due to the
fact to try to hold the lights. Yes, there were.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Okay, Mrs. Nemec?
MS. NEMEC: I think Mr. Walker said that they
walked up on the roof three years ago and found teacup hooks
up there. My only comment is that, if this was discovered
three years ago, if we had been told that that was a problem,
we certainly wouldn't have added more this year. So, if
there was such a problem, I wish we would have heard about it
three years ago.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. And -- and you're absolutely
right, Barbara. But I -- the purpose of this meeting is not
to get chastised or finger-pointing or anything. It's to
work together to solve the problem and have a beautiful
lighting project.
MS. NEMEC: I think if we lust get a list of what
needs to be corrected, you know, we'll do it. We certainly
didn't do this to be a problem or inconvenience; it was done
for the community to enjoy. And we're willing to do whatever
it takes to correct -- you know, we don't want any problems
to result out of it for the County and the Women's Chamber.
JUDGE DENSON: The hooks axe already in place. Why
can't they stay there, for this season?
11

~.


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. WALKER: Well that's -- we just need you to
tell us what you want to do about it.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, we don't want any more hooks.
We don't want to have anything that interferes with the
historical character of our courthouse put in or drilled into
the -- into the structure, itself, in the future.
MR. WALKER: And, in defense of the Warren's
Division, I would just simply have to say that I'm sure that
they weren't aware that -- you know, that these were
problems.
JUDGE DENSON: Right.
MR. WALKER: And that's why -- now, I don't know
what steps were taken.
JUDGE DENSON: It's a matter of communication, and
that's why we're here today, okay? You don't have to defend
them, because no one's attacking them.
MR. WALKER: I understand.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, there is one specific
thing I'd like to bring up, and I'm -- you were probably
heading in that direction; that the County Attorney would, I
think, be involved in. As an example, the railing, the part
in here about the electricity and the railing and the pipe
being alive with electricity and those things, and the
problems that we could possibly be having. Now, I mean,
that's something that I think that we have to address.
12


.~-~

1 JUDGE DENSON: Exactly. Mr. Motley?
2 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I read over the engineering
3 report, and it did say that the type of lighting being strung
9 on the handrails, those -- those little bulbs are very
5 delicate, and if one of those bulbs were to break and the
6 filament were to come in contact with the metal on those
7 handrails, the engineer said it could energize those
8 handrails. And, you know, if we had that happen -- little
9 kids running out of there with mom, you know, banging
10 something and bust a bulb and get somebody shocked -- you
11 know, it would be a bad situation for everybody involved.
12 And what I heard you say a moment ago is exactly what I'm
13 saying. There's bound to be a way, perhaps, to move those
19 particular lights, but to leave the lighting display as it is
15 fairly intact.
16 I read some other things in the engineering report that
17 said that some of the items that were used, some of the
18 extension cords, some of the boxes and such, were not
19 properly weather-sealed to -- if we have a storm, you know,
20 a big snowstorm probably coming or something, and the
21 sprinklers come on and hit that, we could be having some
22 problems in that way, as well. The other night, a group from
23 Tivy came up and was helping string some lights, and I know
29 one of the boxes downstairs, kind of maybe a temporary sort
25 of a box, was disturbed, and it did short out and shorted out
13
1
.-. 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
~r
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25

the whole upper end of the courthouse, and really posed a
hazard to the young man who was entering that box trying to
plug some items in there. If we can have have proper sort of
boxes -- and, you know, Mike's got the knowledge of these
terms, I don't know. But there are ways, there are certain
types of plugs and plug receptacles that are more water-
resistant, weather-resistant, certain types of extension
cords that can be placed in a way where they don't involve a
hazard for somebody tripping.
My idea would be to, perhaps, remove the lights that are
on the handrails and move them in the adjacent area where
they're doing the same thing, but just where somebody could
not directly come in contact with a broken live wire. We
could -- you know, just basically, everything out there, it
seems to me, is mostly fine. There are just a few little
things that probably need to be done differently, and I could
be corrected on that, but we could invest in some proper
extension cords and things like that. Perhaps what there --
I know Mike had said something about there was some lights on
the ground. And, of course, people take the advantage to
cross across the grass, and if they were to trip over them or
to break a bulb on moist grass, we could have another
electrocution hazard. So it might be that it would be wise
to put a fence around there, you know, like we did back when
we were trying to get grass growing, just a temporary little
14
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13

19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
fence with some sort of type that doesn't distract from the
courthouse or the display, and ask people to please take the
sidewalk, something along that -- just very cautious little
things I think we should do. We could reduce greatly or
eliminate any hazard without any real impact on what the
Ladies' Chamber is trying to continue out there.
JUDGE DENSON: What do you -- David, what do you
think about this, as far as reaching some kind of conclusion
today that we would ask that the lights from the handrails be
removed, and the lights that may be on the ground or walking
area be removed, and then contact the city fire marshal or --
MR. MOTLEY: I'm sure Mr. Spenrath would love to
help us in this regard. I guess, technically -- I don't know
if this is County property, the square we're on. I'd be
happy to get the same group from Tivy -- we may be able to
get that same group of kids to come over and help us move
some things.
One of the issues that really hadn't been mentioned,
something for this time and in the future, is going to be the
issue of supervision. And I'm not specifically speaking of
our Maintenance Department, but I know that the Maintenance
Department has contacted a local electrical firm, and they
gave very specific instructions about how much load could be
borne in each of the different areas. And I think, in some
instances, that load has been exceeded. I don't attribute
~ I 15

~/"`
r-

1 that to anybody's ill will or anything. It, perhaps, is just
2 due to the fact that they don't know that. And it's possible
3 to have, maybe, a scheduled time to put the lights up and
4 have somebody, either with that knowledge directly or with
5 direct instructions from an expert as to, Look, you cannot
6 put any more than seven here, or maybe even tag it in some
7 way. You know, or you can put nine things here, seven things
8 here, something to really respect that load that we know
9 we're having. Because we have had, you know, power outages
10 in the courthouse here, and, you know, down in Tax Office the
11 other day they had one, and I think they might have
12 attributed that to some sort of overload. I certainly don't
13 know what caused it. I was here last night when the lights
14 went out all over town. I went, "uh-oh," came outside; the
15 only lights that were on were the Christmas tree lights. So,
16 I thought, the Ladies' Chamber cleaned out the whole town
17 this time.
18 So, anyway, if there were a way to have some -- some
19 representative on behalf of the County to come up and just
20 sit there -- you know, it was kind of an unsupervised
21 situation, I think, or has been at times, with young people
22 in the community wanting to have community spirit and
23 helping, but really not knowing the proper thing to do or
24 how to do it. And any efforts as a County where we could
25 have control, that, I think, would help us from a liability
16
	
	1
•'-

2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
standpoint.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, sometimes, looking forward,
you don't -- your perception is either clouded or your -- you
know, you're going into an unknown area and so you don't
realize these things. And hindsight, as they say, is 20/20.
We need some kind of expert on -- on these issues involved.
And I'm not so sure that even Mike Walker, as the architect,
would be an expert as far as fire hazards. You know, the
City and County are always trying to -- to work together on
different projects. And I think, maybe, getting the Fire
Marshal -- and I think -- I just presume that they would be
cooperative and they'd come over and inspect, and today. I
mean -- I say today. Currently. Now. Whenever they could,
and look at what we have in place right now, and then in the
future, as David mentioned, I think we should address loads
and how many lights are on one breaker and how long the
strings are and on and on.
MR. MOTLEY: Well, the -- you know, I'm -- I feel
certain that -- I'm not going to, certainly, commit Mr.
Spenrath, but I know how he is, and he's a very helpful
person. One of the factors that we have involved this year
is that this is -- there is a lot of work to put these lights
up and take them down, and it's not really something that you
can just walk in, unless you have a huge crew, and do it all
at one time. I think this year has been done in pieces.
r 17

L~
r

1 And, so, maybe in the future we can figure out a way to,
2 maybe, attempt to do it all on one day and give our efforts
3 toward having, maybe, County participants volunteer to come
9 and help, or County employees volunteer to help, or have a
5 community-wide drive and try and get maybe 100 people out
6 there and string the lights and have it done and have it
7 checked. And then have somebody -- you know, the deputies
8 inspect the courthouse at night. Maybe they can go around
9 and see if there's any obvious evidence of any tampering. or
10 anything that's been switched or something like that.
11 But, as -- you know, if we're going to proceed in a
12 fashion where we do it all at one time, I think that would
13 lend itself better to having somebody on the site that day to
19 say, Yeah, this is fine, don't put any more here. And then,
15 also, I think in the future, anything we do, Mike and the man
16 who drew up the electrical -- you know, evaluated
17 electrically have said that we were using some interior-grade
18 items for the project, which might deteriorate the building
19 eventually. Anything that we do in the future, I think,
20 should be done with with proper -- we can get a list of items
21 -- hangers and such like that, that can perhaps be hot-glued
22 up there and removed afterwards, something like that, that
23 will do the same thing and cause no permanent -- or no damage
29 at all to the building and just be removed.
25 I'm not, you know, really sure on these things, 'cause I
18
1
''-' 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
1.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
don't know, but I know there's some exterior-grade
weatherproof-type stuff that would be really inexpensive to
purchase, as compared to what might happen if somebody were
to be injured or killed on account of something out there.
And I think that that's -- we ought to consider that.
MR. WALKER: Judge, if I may offer this, Ed
Thompson's here and he has sort of made a list of things that
-- and we by no means construe this an exhaustive list, but a
list of things that can be done to take care of it. I think
-- in the absence of a policy about how this should be
carried out, I think the primary thing, as far as a minimum
standard, would be to -- to adhere to the National Electric
Code. I think if you've done that, you've taken one giant
step forward in getting the entire premises more safe. And,
Ed, do you want to just say a few words about what you might
do to bring up -- he even has some literature, as well, with
him.
MR. THOMPSON: Let me take just a minute of all of
your time, because this is not something that's earth-
shaking, really. It just requires some pretty serious
housekeeping, is all. The situation that we're dealing with
here is called, in electrical terms, temporary wiring.
Temporary wiring is covered in the National Electrical Code.
Now, all the electricians in the -- that operate in this area
use that code to do their job. As far as the --
19
	1
^	2
	3
	9
	5
	6
	7
	S
	9
	10
	11
	12
	13

19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
JUDGE DENSON: Let me interrupt lust one second,
and please state your name for purposes of the record.
MR. THOMPSON: Oh, my name is Ed Thompson. I'm
with Lux Engineering. I'm a part of the design team that is
-- has done all of the electrical design for the modification
that we've done on this floor to keep it historical.
JUDGE DENSON: And, Ed, what is your -- what is
your professional background? What kind of education do you
have? What kind of -- are you an engineer?
MR. THOMPSON: I am an electrical engineer.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Please proceed. I wanted to
get that out.
MR. THOMPSON: Yeah, electrical engineer and what-
have-you. I've had engineering companies and so forth. Now
I'm retired, I'm doing part-time work.
But, anyway, a temporary situation, lust so the ones who
are responsible know, is something in the code that says that
something is going to go away within 90 days. Second, it
says, in Article 305, that temporary wiring is something that
does not necessarily have to look like it is permanent
wiring. In other words, you can have a cord here, you can
have a box here, you can have things like that. But in the
next article -- the next paragraph, it says, However,
anything that is in this code that is applicable to what
you're doing is included in this, unless it's modified. So
20
r""

	
1	what it says is that you must adhere to the whole intent of
2	the code.
3	What I did first was I got a call from Mike Walker, and
4	if you look in your -- the letter from Mike, he said, "We
5	have received several calls trying to determine why and how
6	electrical circuits have been tripped." I received a call,
7	and he said, We tripped the main breaker in the main
8	switchboard room, and we don't know why it happened. For
9	some reason, the main breaker that feeds all of the
10	air-conditioning up on the roof of the annex building was
11	tripped. That meant that the whole building had no
12	air-conditioning or heat.
13	They brought -- the air-conditioning people came in,
14	they looked through everything that they could find in the
I5	entire mechanical system up there on that building and went
16	down to the electric room and -- and found that this new
17	expensive ground fault circuit-interrupting main breaker that
18	we installed in Phase 1, when we did this job, had been
19	tripped by a ground fault. You don't need to know about
20	that, but let -- that would take just a little bit of
21	electricity to do that. You need to know that we've
22	installed some pretty delicate equipment to protect all of
23	the equipment.
24	What happened was that, somewhere out here in the
25	Christmas tree lighting on that tree right there, there was a
	21
1
r 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
~~.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
ground fault. Just a Christmas tree light string caused that
that main breaker to trip. That's what it's designed to do.
So, I came oven and looked the system over, and I found
that's what it was, it was cleared. But, in order not to
have that happen again, I asked that the service that was
being fed to that tree from a box up on the roof be
discontinued -- be disconnected, that the circuit -- that
circuit -- that aerial circuit be taken over, and that a
separate source be made for that tree, because there was.
something in the Christmas tree lighting that was not good.
The other part, all of the 120-volt receptacles out here
come from this building; everything but that tree. As far as
the County is concerned, my feeling is that your
responsibility ends when that 120-volt receptacle is sticking
up out there in the yard. From there on, you don't have the
responsibility of putting it in. That is called festoon
lighting, and it is referred to in the code as holiday
lighting, but it is covered by the code.
What I did was to come over, and I just walked through,
and I gave Mike a list of six different things that you could
use as as a scope of work. What that means is that, from the
outlet box, the cover, number one, needs to be changed to a
cover that is called a ring-type while-in-use cover. The
covers that are out there are meant to be used on a temporary
basis. Those covers are used universally outside where you
22


r"`.
1 go and you plug in at your house and you use your weed-eater
2 and you come and you plug it fn, a flap comes down over it.
3 These receptacles or these covers are deep, they have slots
9 in the side. They are "while-in-use" covers. They're
5 available at the local supply house.
6 I called over there this morning and they couldn't tell
7 me whether they had any in stock, but every receptacle that
8 you have a cord coming out of has got to have one of those to
9 be weatherproof, according to the code. And that's going to
10 get to be a little expensive, but that's what you need to do.
11 And, you see, that's simple; that just means taking the plug
12 out, putting a new cover on it, putting the plugs back in. A
13 rule of thumb is, no more than three strings together.
19 Period. That's the rule of thumb.
15 As far as the extension cords are concerned, those
16 should all be weatherproof if they're outside. You can get
17 weatherproof cords that the wire is weatherproof and rated
18 for use outside, but the cord connector, itself, what's on
19 the end, the plugs, what you have to do then is, where that
20 comes together, if it's going to be outside and you're
21 extending from that, you have to take electrical tape and
22 make that waterproof. That's all you've got do do, because
23 it's temporary. And we make it so that water cannot get in
29 there. If they're lying on the ground -- they're best not on
25 the ground. But this list I have is just six items on it,
23
1
'r` 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
~.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
and it tells generally what needs to be done. And it's going
to take more time than anything else, and some money to
replace and make all of the cords weatherproof.
JUDGE DENSON: And you don't have any figure that
you could --
MR. THOMPSON: Well, no, sir, because that's what I
was trying to do this morning was find out how much these
covers cost. The -- the extension cords, themselves, are
probably going to cost some money to have the weatherproof
outlets, because they have a cover that goes over them. But
what I feel like is that, rather than do that, with the
lights themselves, just make sure that the connections are
wrapped with tape so that they're weatherproof with electric
tape. But the extension cords should all be weatherproof and
they should be weatherproof cords.
And if -- I can't say what an inspector would say, but
if -- and the covers for them are formed rubber or plastic,
and they're going to lie there over the cord. But, more than
likely, you can't get those real quickly, so I would just
wrap them with electric tape again and make them waterproof.
But you got a ton of them. There's some of them up in the
trees and what-have-you. But I think that would solve it for
now, really. Because with only a couple exceptions, every
single plug in all of the outlets at the ground level, are
G.F.I., ground fault interrupting plugs, which they should
24
1
r 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19

15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
,~-.
be. So ,therefore, if you have something ahead of that plug,
the plug will shut that string off. Questions?
MR. WALKER: May I say one other thing? Don't go,
Ed. I'm just -- in our work that we did down here before, I
mean, we -- we tried everything we could do to try to
accommodate this, even though we didn't know what this
committee was going to be doing in the future. And we even
dedicated a panel down there that is just for --
MR. THOMPSON: It's just the Christmas.
MR. WALKER: Any kind of special-event type
lighting. Obviously, we did not address it all. We could
not. And, as a matter of fact, nobody seemed to know where
all the circuits went or came from or go to or anything else.
So, an attempt has been made by your professionals to try to
take care of it, but until -- until we're given some
direction on how you would like us to go with it, what's
going to happen in the future, you know, what kind of
planning is involved, and also, I think, as Mr. Motley
pointed out, what sort of control or supervision is going to
be done over it. But, in the absence of that policy and that
direction, I think the -- the immediate things that could be
addressed is simply what Ed has brought up.
One of the things that I would like to respectfully
request of the committee or whoever's in charge is that,
particularly, like, up on the roof, they have strung
25
		
		1
^		
'		2
		3
		4
		5
		6
		7
		8
		9
		10
		11
		12
		13
C .
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25

Christmas lights all over the place and are about 6 inches
off, and it's almost impossible to walk up there. You know,
I was trying to take contractors through there yesterday. It
was all we could do to keep from tripping and falling.
MR. THOMPSON: If we had a heavy rain --
MR. WALKER: If we had a heavy rain, that stuff
would be --
MR. THOMPSON: Those cords would be in water.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, we obviously need to get
organized on this. And part of this is the County's fault,
because what has happened in the past is that -- like, last
year, for example, the County Maintenance got involved to a
great extent. And then, at the first of this year,
Maintenance told the Court, We don't have the manpower to get
involved with this very much. We don't have the staff; we
have other duties, and so we told the Chamber that. And,
consequently, they have been doing this on their own and
independent of the County's Maintenance Department. So,
consequently, maybe some things were done that otherwise
would not have been done if the County was involved. The
future Court may want to consider having Maintenance involved
to some degree. After all, this is a County project.
But, let me go back to, really, the issue. If this is a
situation that is created that ultimately causes some
liability because of negligence on behalf of the County or
26

1
r` 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13

19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25

whomever, that's one thing, when you don't know about it.
MR. WALKER: True.
JUDGE DENSON: But when you find out about it and
you're on notice, like we are now, y'all have told us in the
form of a letter -- you know, the electrical engineer has
told us that we're not in compliance with the National
Electrical Code and we have some problems, you know, that's
hit us upside the head with the old baseball bat. We need to
do something and we need to do something now.
MR. THOMPSON: Let me just mention this. Johnson
City and their courthouse during the Christmas season, if you
notice carefully when you go to that building, there is not a
light string that touches that building.
MS. NEMEC: May I ask who does that?
MR. THOMPSON: They did it years ago.
MS. NEMEC: But who?
MR. THOMPSON: The electrical --
MS. NEMEC: Is it the County and the City that do
it together, or is it an organization?
MR. THOMPSON: I have no idea. I do not know. All
I know is that whoever told them about this back in time
said, You do have a responsibility and a liability. So what
they did to make that look like the jewel box that it is,
they built a suspension system completely around the
building, and everything is on that suspension system and
27
1
r..`- 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
~.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25

nothing touches the building.
MR. WALKER: And what I would also point out -- and
this was brought up to this committee before, you know, I was
there, but the Texas Historical Commission points to that
particular courthouse, for example, as the way to go about
doing your lighting.
MR. THOMPSON: As the way to do it.
MR. WALKER: I do understand that that lighting is
up year-round.
MR. THOMPSON: They never take it down.
MR. WALKER: And, so, while that is, in the light
of day, not the most beautiful thing in the world when you
look at it in the daytime, it certainly pays off for one
month out of the year.
MR. THOMPSON: There are things that can be put on
the building that can be attached with epoxies and so forth
to hold permanent things. There are stand-off insulators
that are available, all those things. And I don't want to
take any time, but it's exactly what our friend was talking
about.
MS. NEMEC: I lust have a question. There's
several things that we need to correct, and we're going to
correct them. Obviously, it's going to take more than a day
or two to do it, and my question is that, in the meantime
that we're doing all this, are we being told that the lights
28
1
'.`. 2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
L_
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
should just stay off? Or do we just continue and -- and
repair as we can, and the lights are -- I know we have --
JUDGE DENSON: Excuse me, I've got a telephone
call.
MS. NEMEC: Norwest has a program here scheduled
tomorrow at 5:30, and they've advertised for it, on and on,
so -- and then they're bringing in a stage and -- and they're
going to have to hook up more lights, and sound system.
JUDGE DENSON: Let me see if I can answer part of
that, or maybe just throw this out, maybe, as a partial
solution. I'd like to -- well, first, I've got Danny Edwards
standing by. I got your letter yesterday, Mike, and I
thought we might have to do some work. And Danny Edwards is
in charge of Community Service, and he -- he doesn't know how
many people that he'll have available today and tomorrow, but
he has some, okay? So let's put that aside for right now,
but there is possible a labor source.
What I'd like to do is get Mr. Thompson to get with our
Maintenance Department today, and representative from the
Chamber today, or as soon as possible, and -- and point out
some of these things. And then, together with the Chamber
and with the Community Service, and -- and the Maintenance
Department working closely with them, supervising them,
seeing that they're carrying out Mr. Thompson's suggestions,
solve the problem or address the problem that way. Does that
II 29
/"
,.-.
~.
r
x
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
sound like --
MR. THOMPSON: It will just take a little time to
get -- if we can't get the covers, they can be flown in, they
can be Fed Ex'd in, and that's really the the biggest part of
it. And --
JUDGE DENSON: But, as far -- for example, we need
to take those wires off of the handrails.
MR. THOMPSON: That should come off right away.
MS. NEMEC: We can take care of that.
MR. THOMPSON: That's not a biggie. You can just
disconnect them, take them off.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the extension cords
laying on the ground, wherever that is, is just as important.
MR. THOMPSON: A lot of that is because of lights
on the railing.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. THOMPSON: But there are some instances --
there's some outside of the building out here. Those need to
be made weatherproof or gotten up off the ground, if they can
be. If not, you can bury it.
JUDGE DENSON: Ed, excuse me for interrupting. We
can sit here in the courtroom and talk about all these
potential problems out there, but I need an on-the-ground
expert --
MR. THOMPSON: I'd be glad to do that.
30



1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
with --
MR. THOMPSON: Alex and I can do that. Whoever the
Chamber has.
JUDGE DENSON: With a representative or
representatives.
MR. THOMPSON: Sure. And it's not a big thing,
because it's very easy to see, and I've got a copy of the --
the kind of cover that we need here, and the standard
material and for cords and so forth available at Dealer's
Electric -- electrical contractor has all this stuff.
MS. DYE: That's where we originally bought them,
the covers.
JUDGE DENSON: Let's talk for just a moment about
dollars. I know that --
MR. THOMPSON: You just need a different cover to
be while-in-use.
JUDGE DENSON: Ed?
MR. THOMPSON: Okay, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Let's talk a minute about the
cost of the covers and such. I know you told me you didn't
know what they cost, But you kept saying they're going to
cost some bucks. And are we talking about $50? Are we
talking about 5100?
MR. THOMPSON: Oh, no. No. No, you're talking
JUDGE DENSON: -- to walk around with Alex, and

t^
31

r~

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
probably $5, $6, S10 maybe for a cover, depending on whether
it's a single-gain box or a two-gain box. A two-gain box may
be S3 or S9 more.
JUDGE DENSON: And how many?
MR. THOMPSON: And I imagine there's 20 or 30 out
there.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. You know, I would --
MR. THOMPSON: Or more than that? I don't know.
So we're looking at -- I would just guess we'll be looking at
maybe 51,000, $1,500, something like that, for material and
an electrician or somebody who's going to do this. If
volunteers can come and wrap tape and climb trees and so
forth and do that part of it, but they've got to make sure
that they've got a good taped connection around those, and
then you've got to take them off when you take them down and
so forth.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On these covers, you're
talking about just basically the cover on the face of the --
MR. THOMPSON: Just the face of the box.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The face of it. And those
are to be left permanently? You don't have to take them off
once you've got them on there, now?
MR. THOMPSON: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They'll be left there
permanently?
32
r


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. THOMPSON: They can just leave them on there
permanently, because they're weatherproof covers.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And do you have to have an
electrician to install those, or can anybody screw them on
there?
MR. THOMPSON: No. No, they can -- all you have to
do is just take the existing cover off and put the --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Put the other cover on?
MR. THOMPSON: -- new cover on. There's four
screws. It --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And you're saying those are
$3 to $5, $6 a piece?
MR. THOMPSON: Yeah. Or up -- probably no more
than $10 for -- it depends on whether it's a single-gain or a
two-gain.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, I would be more
than willing to support the County purchasing those things so
that we're in compliance up to that point.
MR. THOMPSON: I think that's the main thing for
you.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, good. Good. And I think the
Court will -- will support that.
MS. KIRBY: I have a question.
JUDGE DENSON: And your name, for purposes of the
record?
33
~.
r^

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MS. KIRBY: I'm sorry. I'm Louise Kirby, and I'm
the Women's Chamber -- I'm the Treasurer.
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, ma'am?
MS. KIRBY: But I have a question. Due to the fact
that we were asked or whatever -- that we had to have the
extra pole out there, which has already been an expense to us
that we never dreamed of, per se.
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, ma'am?
MS. KIRBY: My question is, would the County be
willing to help us on that matter, due to -- if we need that
pole, after we find out, really, what's happening, with --
you know, we don't have any money, per se, and everyone knows
that.
JUDGE DENSON: KPUB put that pole up?
MS. KIRBY: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: And they are charging y'all for it?
MS. KIRBY: The electrician is. I'm not sure about
KPUB; I have not checked with them, personally.
MR. THOMPSON: That will have to come out.
JUDGE DENSON: Right. Right. But that was a --
that was a solution.
MR. THOMPSON: That was the solution to the problem
-- the electrical problem that was created by the lighting on
that tree.
MR. WALKER: But it's temporary.
34
~~

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
MR. THOMPSON: But it's temporary. That pole will
go away.
MR. WALKER: May I suggest that, if you're asking
about --
MS. KIRBY: May I finish my question? Okay?
MR. WALKER: I'm sorry.
MS. KIRBY: But, from what we understand, there's
going to have to be a wire from that pole down here if we put
up any kind of electrical appliances or anything, like for
coffee pots or whatever. My question is, what is your
suggestion on that, and can the County help us on that?
That's my question. Because if we have another electrician
come in here to do all that, .it's going to be another expense
that we are really going to have a problem with.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The pole's installed.
I saw a commander drive in here and unload the pole, and I
saw our Maintenance people out there setting the pole up, and
I saw --
MR. THOMPSON: It was permitted --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: KPUB ran some wires over
there. Is there electric on it?
MR. THOMPSON: It was permitted to the City and it
is inspected by the City, but it is the only aspect of the
entire Christmas tree lighting that the City inspectors have
had anything to do with.
35
r
~~
r
1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's beside the point. Is
2 the thing functioning? Is there electric coming out of that
3 pole?
9 MR. THOMPSON: It's live.
5 JUDGE DENSON: Well, my -- my philosophy -- and I
6 think what the Court has always said is that we wanted to
7 provide electricity up to the point of the outlets where
8 y'all plug in, wherever it may be on the courthouse premises.
9 And, to me, that -- that pole or that temporary solution. to
10 our breakers and all falls within that concept, that we
11 should be responsible for some expenses to getting y'all to
12 the outlet where you can plug into. So, really, what I'm
13 saying is, I think the County should at least participate in
19 any kind of additional expense as far as something that y'all
15 need to plug into to have more power.
16 MS. KIRBY: Excuse me, but --
17 JUDGE DENSON: Yes, ma'am?
18 MS. KIRBY: From the way we're looking at it and
19 the way the breakers are in there and the extra little box,.
20 there's going to have to be some wire or something coming out
21 of that pole over to this area somewhere that we can go ahead
22 and plug our electrical things into. 'Cause I feel -- I
23 believe we were planning on having our little concession or
29 whatever right here at this corner. If -- you know, if that
25 was okay. But that's -- that's the question. Is -- can the
36

~---.


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
County help us get the cord from that pole to where we really
need it if we have our little concession in this corner?
JUDGE DENSON: When you speak of concessions, this
is an ongoing --
MS. DYE: Tuesday -- I mean next Saturday, a week
from Saturday.
MS. KIRBY: Next Saturday. And we're supposedly
having a Coke machine -- one of the little buggies or
whatever.
JUDGE DENSON: You're not -- you're talking about
the lighting of the courthouse? The event?
MS. KIRBY: Saturday, the 12th, yes, sir. And then
it would be gone. Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That could be taken care of
probably with two outdoor weatherproof full-blown extension
cords.
MS. KIRBY: Yes.
MR. THOMPSON: And that's no different than the
Christmas tree.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think the Maintenance
Department budget could stand those two cords, plus taking
care of putting in new covers on the boxes and paying
whatever charges to be incurred for temporary service.
MS. KIRBY: Thank you.
MS. DYE: Thank you very much, Bruce.
37
r.
~r
r^~
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I'll put that in the form
of a motion, as well as to instruct that all hazardous
things, like the railing lights, be removed immediately.
JUDGE DENSON: Is that pretty clear? Like mud?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Like mud, yeah.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I'll second that motion.
JUDGE DENSON: I see a hand here in the back. Yes,
slr?
MR. FEGENBUSH: My name's Joseph Fegenbush, and I
pastor a church here. And I would just like to say that if
it's going to cost the Ladies' Chamber anything to do the
covers on the boxes -- I'm glad this guy mentioned it. If it
takes an electrician, I'm sure some of the ladies can vouch
for me being a handyman. If you buy the covers, I'll put
them on for nothing.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You've got a deal.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, we're going to do that; he's
already made that motion. And this is Commissioner Oehler,
rather than "that guy."
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's okay.
MS. NEMEC: You need to put your name tag up there.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Let's try --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You want me to try and do it
again?
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, break it down a little bit.
38
•-I-. .



1
2
3
4 it
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that all hazardous
lighting that's attached to the handrails around the
courthouse be removed immediately, and that the County
purchase two weatherproof outdoor extension cords to run over
here to the location where the Women's Chamber wants to set
up their concessions, and that the County pay for any charges
incurred from the temporary service being set for Christmas
lighting.
JUDGE DENSON: And the County also pay for the
covers.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Pay for the covers.
MR. MOTLEY: We're going to have some issues of
some additional extension cords, I think. Mr. Thompson said
there were going to be some additional outdoor extension
cords. Nobody has really estimated that number. "That guy"
made a statement about paying all the expenses, so --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I said "incurred up to."
MR. MOTLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Specified the charges.
MR. MOTLEY: I understand that. I'm just saying
that was one of the things that they had mentioned that could
be done fairly quickly. We'd have to get the tape and stuff
to do all that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have a -- I have a
quick question, I guess, to Mr. Thompson. You -- I mean,
39

C .
r-
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
there's 30 boxes out there that we're authorizing to fix? I
mean, there's not -- you're pretty sure of that? We're not
talking about maybe 2,500 hundred of them or --
MR. THOMPSON: Oh, no, no, no. It's just --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's around 30?
MR. THDMPSON: There's somewhere near that. I have
not actually inventoried them. I just -- but they're at the
base of most all of the trees.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Around 30, and somewhere
around six bucks -- you first said S6; we got to $10 there at
the end.
MR. THOMPSON: Six or something like that, yeah.
JUDGE DENSON: What Commissioner -- and I don't
have to speak far Commissioner Baldwin; he can certainly
speak for himself, but I agree with him, and I think the
entire Court really agrees that we don't want to just say at
any time, Yeah, we'll take care of expenses, and it be
unknown and be, just simply, an open-type figure. Or, you
know, we'll write you a check and you fill in the amount. We
want to join with you and we want to help you, but we want
something definitive when we approve spending County money
here in Court.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I believe that he
stated that the -- that most of the extension cords could be
wrapped where they're plugged together with tape to make them
40

r

r
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
waterproof.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, for purposes of addressing the
problem today, we've got a motion.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I second the motion.
JUDGE DENSON: We've got a second. Okay. Now --
yes, ma'am? Do you have a question? And your name, please?
MS. WOLLNEY: I am Dawn Wollney. I am coordinator
with the Christmas lighting. I wanted to know what you
called the rails going across this way and this way. It's
not a walkway where anybody's going to walk; there's not a
sidewalk there. And we had taken and removed them on these
rails, but they're just on the two over here and in the
front; that's not removed. Are you considering the rails
going all the way around?
JUDGE DENSON: I don't want to get involved with
that.
MS. WOLLNEY: I was just wondering.
JUDGE DENSON: Mr. Thompson is going to get with
our Maintenance Department at the conclusion of the meeting,
and I -- hopefully, he has time, or sometime today. And
hopefully a representative from the Chamber, and get all
these heads together.
MS. NEMEC: If he tell us it's a hazard, then we'll
remove them.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If the lighting on the rails
91

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
is a hazard, it must be removed immediately.
JUDGE DENSON: Right, Mr. Thompson?
MR. THOMPSON: Sir?
JUDGE DENSON: Are you listening, sir?
MR. THOMPSON: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: At the conclusion of this meeting,
if possible, but as soon as possible, communicate with the
Chamber and with our Maintenance, and y'all get together and
go out on the ground and look.
MR. THOMPSON: That's fine.
JUDGE DENSON: And-point out what needs to be
changed.
MR. THOMPSON: That will take us 15, 20 minutes.
JUDGE DENSON: Excellent. Thank you.
MR. THOMPSON: I'm glad to do that.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Mr. Motley?
MR. MOTLEY: I spoke with Mr. Thompson a moment
ago, Your Honor, about the issue of those extension cords.
I thought that they were some specialty item that would have
to be ordered in. He said no, those items are readily
available at department stores and discount houses in town.
And, you know, however long you need them, just join them
together and tape them. So, you know, I'm -- I have some at
my house that would meet that code. You know, I could -- we
probably all do.
92

.--~

r
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. We've got a motion and a
second. And give them to the reverend.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's two reverends here.
JUDGE DENSON: We've got two. We're blessed.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We are blessed.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
MS. NEMEC: And we're blessed to have a Court
that's willing to work with us.
JUDGE DENSON: Is there anything else today that we
need to --
MR. WALKER: Do we want to postpone the decision on
what to do about telling the contractors what to do about all
the -- the other appurtenances that are attached to the
building?
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
MR. WALKER: We can do it as a change order later
if that's --
JUDGE DENSON: Right, and that's --
MR. WALKER: -- what the Court desires.
JUDGE DENSON: It's going to have to be a change
order later.
MR. WALKER: No, I -- right, unless we address it
-- I could do it now in an addendum form out to the bidders,
but I need to do it by, at the latest, next Wednesday.
93
+~ 4 ~
L _

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is not -- we don't have
it on the agenda, anyway.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: They won't start before the
first of the year, will they?
JUDGE DENSON: No, what he's talking about,
gentlemen, just so everyone understands, is that before we
receive their bids, he wants them to know that part of the
project, the construction project, is going to be
installation of some kind of hooks or something that will
accommodate lighting in the future.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like Johnson City.
MR. WALKER: Or remove, you know, hooks and patch
it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like a decision for
the new Court, to me.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Anything further today?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, the County Treasurer
here was making some kind of comment that I kind of wanted --
were you telling us --
MS. NEMEC: I said, And we are very blessed to have
a Court who is working with us the way you all are.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I knew it was
something like that.
MS. NEMEC: Let me just say that Pat and I are used
to dealing with the Commissioners Court and we knew what to
99
_ -------- T ---



1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
expect,	but we have ladies here	that were really frightened
to come	today.	
	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:	They should be.
	MS. NEMEC: And I told	them that y'all were as nice
as can b	e and everything was goi	ng to be fine, and y'all were
going to	work with us. Y'all di	d not make me a liar.
	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:	I want to warn you, this new
group is	not nearly as friendly	as we are.
	MS. DYE: Maybe y'all	can train them.
	COMMISSIONER LACKEY:	I'm working on that one.
	JUDGE DENSON: Okay.	Thank you all very, very
much.
(Commissioners Court was adjourned at 11:00 a.m.)
95

r"

r-.
1 C E R T I F I C A T E
2 The above and foregoing is a true and complete
3 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
9 Official Reporter of the Commissioners' Court of Kerr County,
5 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
6 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 7th day of December,
7 1998.
8
9
10 ~ c~Q/IC~
Kathy B k
11 Certified Shorthand Reporter
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
zl
zz
23
29
25
96