,1 IA «^ 1 1
	'~		
~	~..		
	1		
/~			
	2		
	3		
	4		
	5		
	6		
	7		
	8		COMMISSIONERS COURT
	9		Regular Session
	10		December 14, 1998
	11		9:00 a.m.
	12		Kerr County Commissioners Courtroom
	13		Kerr County Courthouse
	lq		700 Main Street
			
	15		Kerrville, Texas
	16		
	17		
	18		
	19		
	20		
	21		
	22		
	23	PRESENT:	ROBERT A. DENSON, County Judge
			H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
	24		T. H. "BUTCH" LACKEY, Commissioner Pct. 2
			JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
	25		BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
"`,			Flleft~ ~/ ~Y~~.19~AIME~,
r			BII.LIE G MEEKEFl
			Cler my Court Kerr County, Te
			By
1 t
i
1
r
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14

15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
el ld IYI 1
I N D E X
December 14, 1998
Morning Session

Page
1.1 Pay Bills
1.2 Budget Amendments
1.3 Late Bills
1.4 Read and Approve Minutes
1.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports
2.1 Sight Distance - Loyal Valley 6 Ranchero
2.2 Revised prelim. plat - Cypress Springs Estates
2.3 Interlocal Agreement - Mental Health commitments
2.9 Change in step/grade, District Clerk's Office
2.5 TDH Grant contracts
2.8 December 24th holiday
2.9 1998-1999 holidays
2.11 Accrued sick leave/Worker's Compensation
2.10 City of Kerrville - estray issues
2.6 Open Bids - Solid Waste Program 1/2-ton pickup
2.7 Open bids - Sheriff's Dept. - 2 vehicles
2.12 Approve 911 budget
2.13 Child Care Initiative Contract
2.14 Kerr County Extension Agents - presentation
2.15 Release of Lien - Bail Bond Board
2.16 Student winners - Creative Writing Contest
Afternoon Session
2.2 Approve preliminary plat - Cypress Springs
2.7 Approve bids - 2 vehicles for Sheriff's Dept.
2.6 Approve bid - pickup for Solid Waste Program
2.15 Release of Lien decision
2.17 Open bids - Phase III of courthouse renovation
2.18 Issuance of Kerr Cty. Tax Anticipation Notes
9
6
6
6
7
13
25
26
30
30
39
37
38
51
59
55
60
73
83
88
93
102
103
103
105
108
9.1 Action taken on Executive Session matters 109
2.17 Approve bid - Phase III of courthouse renovation 110
~"~
is d i i Bl I 1
,.•..

1
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
On Monday, December 14, 1998, at approximately 9:00
o'clock a.m., a regular session of Commissioners Court was
held in the Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
and the following proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. It's 9:00 or just a minute or
two after. It's the 14th of December, 1998. It's our
regular Commissioners Court meeting for the month, and before
we get into the business, let's have an invocation and pledge
of allegiance. I think Commissioner Lackey is in charge of
invocation this morning.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: We have our new Judge here,
Fred Hennecke, this morning.
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE DENSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, may I introduce
someone?
JUDGE DENSON: Please.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to introduce
to our courthouse staff and Commissioners Court, Brandon
Barrett is in the back there. He's a Boy Scout. He's chosen
the Commissioners Court to come by and see to -- in order to
obtain his Citizenship in the Community award. So, Brandon's
a brave young man to come into this den, and he's a good
fellow, good friend of mine. Brandon, we want to say welcome
/'`, ~ ~ 3
6J d+ ~W ~ I 1
L._
f
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
to the Commissioners Court.
MR. BARRETT: Thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. First matter of business, we
need to pay bills. Any questions or comments? Do we have a
motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have -- I have a question.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know you find that hard to
believe. Page 7 -- and I'm glad the Sheriff's here; it's a
question to her. Page 7, the very bottom one. Item 96315.
I had a lot of questions I went through, but I got them all
answered this morning. Only one I didn't, but we'll get to
it now. Investigative Expense, Card Services.
MR. TOMLINSON: I'll have to look it up.
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. TOMLINSON: It's uniforms, is what it looks
like to me. It's two -- two pair of khaki pants.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 96315?
MR. TOMLINSON: $87.93 --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $87.92.
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. Okay, that's it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And that is an
investigative expense?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I'm -- that's -- that's what
-- it says pant, and then it says two regular khaki.
~^ ~ ~ 9

~~
i
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
SHERIFF KAISER: 315? Should be clothing.
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that could be our -- that
could be a misscoding.
SHERIFF KAISER: Is it 315, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, 96315.
SHERIFF KAISER: Okay, that's clothing.
MR. TOMLINSON: No, no, no. That's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the invoice I.D.
It's 208.
MR. TOMLINSON: It's out of 208, but it could be --
SHERIFF KAISER: That's wrong. It should be
clothing.
MR. TOMLINSON: It has -- it doesn't have an
account number on here, so it's probably our -- our error.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Should it come out of
uniforms?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it apparently should, yes.
SHERIFF KAISER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could I see that, Tommy,
please?
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: Any other questions, gentlemen, that
might -- if not, can I have a motion?
~"'• ~ ~ 5
b+li r9. I 1


~ ~
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: I've got a motion and a second.
This does include Indigent Health?
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think that we have any.
JUDGE DENSON: We don't have any this time?
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
JUDGE DENSON: All right. All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DEN30N: Budget amendments?
MR. TOMLINSON: I have one, but I think it's
related to item 2.4, so if you want to wait on it, when we
get to 2.4 we'll do that.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Late bills?
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
JUDGE DENSON: We have some minutes. We need to
waive reading and approve minutes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So move.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: And then we need to accept and
approve monthly reports.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So move.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
r"" ~ ~ 6
,. ..
		
	1	JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
r		
	2	(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
	3	JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Before we get started with
	9	the agenda items, I think we need to recognize our County
	5	Clerk's -- County Clerk's Department for receiving Five-Star
	6	Vital Registration Award from the Texas Department of Health,
	7	Bureau of Vital Statistics, for training, quality, issuance,
	8	timeliness, and rejections. This was given to Billie Meeker,
	9	our County Clerk, in recognition of outstanding services in
	10	vital statistics in her department. And, Billie, we need to
	11	just take a moment and say thank you very much for all your
	12	efforts, and everyone that's working with you down there.
	13	MS. MEEKER: Thank you. It's the girls. I really
	19	can't take credit, but I'm real proud.
	15	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not every County in the
	16	state got one of those, right?
	17	MS. MEEKER: I think there were -- I counted --
	18	maybe 13.
	19	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out of 264, not bad.
	20	COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty good.
	21	MS. MEEKER: But it's the first time for Kerr
	22	County, so we're especially proud.
	23	JUDGE DENSON: Thank you very much.
	29	MS. MEEKER: Thank you.
	25	JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Top of the agenda, 2.1,
r'^		7
;i a ~ , i
r,..,
L_
~ ,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
consider sight distance at Loyal Valley and Ranchero. And I
guess that's Ranchero Road. County Engineer, Franklin
Johnston.
MR. JOHNSTON: Morning.
JUDGE DENSON: Good morning, sir.
MR. JOHNSTON: I'll read you the thing I submitted,
and then we can talk about the policy. It's a violation of
Kerr County Sight Distance Policy, Court Order 22974, for a
property owner to permit an obstruction of sight distance
caused by vegetation if the obstruction causes a traffic
hazard. There have been five traffic accidents at the corner
of -- it's Loyal Valley and Ranchero Road. And on the last
accident report, October 25th of '98, on the write-up, it
stated that the driver did not -- Driver 1 did not see the
Unit 2 westbound on Ranchero Road. And I actually drove out
there and drove in, turned around and came back out that
intersection, and it's very difficulty to see either
direction because of shrubbery and trees.
JUDGE DENSON: I see at the conclusion of your
memo, Franklin, you're saying, "I recommend Commissioners
Court give notice to owner per Section 4.1 of sight distance
policy."
MR. JOHNSTON: That's per our policy. I think you
have a copy of that in your packet.
JUDGE DENSON: Right.
r"" ~ ~ 8
111.x1 Y 4M 1 1

C

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
MR. JOHNSTON: That's the procedure the
Commissioners Court will give -- send a letter, give notice
to that.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: We had this same problem
before, this same place.
MR. JOHNSTON: I think the same intersection may
have inspired this policy several years ago. It's grown
back.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it a matter of trimming
trees or --
MR. JOHNSTON: I think trimming -- there's a
picture on the back of that policy -- that if they're trimmed
a certain heighth, I think 30 inches, no more than 30 inches
or no less than 90 foot on a tree, that, you know, it gives
an area you can see the signs and oncoming traffic. And it's
pretty well a solid, dense vegetation; there's no open space
anywhere right now. It has a stop sign, so it needs to be,
like, that upper right-hand corner, 10 foot back, and then
100 feet down the property each direction.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is our -- what are the
easements on those two roads? Is the vegetation definitely
-- it's not in the easement area?
MR. JOHNSTON: It's inside of the fence, so I
assume it's on the property of the landowner.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems like we have to give
.+~ ~ ~ 9
;~+~ u ~w
/"
L _

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
notice.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and that's my
question. The actual notice here in your -- in the Court
Order is that the Commissioners Court shall give written
notice. And then it goes into what the notice should say
about all the descriptions of the obstruction, the clear
statement, measurements and timeliness and all those kind of
things. Is that something that you do, Judge Denson? Or can
we -- can we play lawyer here and -- it says the Court shall
give written notice. Can the Court cause someone to give
written notice?
JUDGE DENSON: Certainly. That's -- I always seek
the easier way out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
JUDGE DENSON: I think the Court needs to pass an
order today that notice should be given in accordance with
our written rules, and ask that Road and Bridge or the County
Engineer actually give the notice.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you mind if I second that
motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. I guess I'm
kind of concerned, we're going onto private property under a
County policy, telling them how they have to -- what trees
they -- what they have to do on their private property.
Seems to me that if the County sees that it's a problem, we
~,., I 10
h.{ I#r~ I. I
r'""

e e
1
Z
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
ought to condemn the cozner and take it over for ourselves.
I don't see that we should go onto private property or have
an order to go on private property and tell a landowner what
to do on their property. And I think the intent of the
policy, maybe, is fine, but I lust have a little bit of a
problem from a property standpoint, a property rights
standpoint, for us to -- to do this. I think we ought to go
out there and condemn it if it's a problem, if he won't --
you know, maybe send a letter saying that we will go in that
direction if he's not going to clean it up, but I don't know
that we can require him to clean it. I think write him a
letter and say please do it, but if not, condemn the corner.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, I --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Building Safety Code has
a lot to say about that.
MR. JOHNSTON: I think this will probably likely
come under the Health, Safety, and Welfare provision.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: For us to condemn it, I think
it would be, but to go onto this private property and do
otherwise, I don't think we should do that.
MR. JOHNSTON: I don't think the intent was for us
to do the actual trimming. I think it's to tell him what
needs to be done, and they do it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we should tell
him what to do on his own property. I think we should take
~,.~ 11
{il l9 wL' ' I I
rte.


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
over that property, condemn it, and compensate him for it.
MR. JOHNSTON: Those lots are so small out there,
it may be a significant amount of the lot.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, I would -- I would prefer that
the question of going on his property and actually trimming
or removing obstructions, whatever there is, come back to the
Commissioners Court. In other words, there be an Order on
that, should that become necessary. Hopefully, with the
written notice informing him of this -- this obstruction and
the violation of our orders, that that will cause him to
correct it.
MR. JOHNSTON: I think our personnel are prohibited
from going on private property and doing any work, anyways.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any problem
sending the notice, but if he refuses, I think we need to
take other action.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I think it would be a
good idea to send him formal notice and ask him politely to
clean up the cause of the -- the problem, that it's causing
some people to have wrecks and whatever, and ask him kindly
to do it first and then see what happens.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you're -- you're not
only in a school zone, but you're on the highest traveled
road in the entire county. And, it is really -- that

itl 11 X911 I I
r

e
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
particular intersection right there is a bad, bad nightmare.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ought to try to fix
the problem. I'm just concerned if he says no, I think we
need to probably go towards expanding the right-of-ways right
there.
JUDGE DENSON: So, let's make -- make a motion that
notice be given to the property owner in accordance with the
sight distance policy rule, and should the owner refuse to
correct the condition, then Road and Bridge could comeback
to the Court for further directives. That's a motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 2.2, consider revised
preliminary plat for Cypress Springs Estates, Phase 1,
Precinct 4. Lee Voelkel, County Engineer.
MR. JOHNSTON: I have a real brief thing, then Lee
can probably answer any questions that you have. The Court
has previously granted a variance for the roads that are on
cul-de-sacs to be paved country lanes, and then the balance
of the roads to be local roads, per our subdivision rules.
So, I think Cypress Glen Drive, Cypress Mill Road, and
Glenacre Road would be, then, built to the local standard --
local road standard, and Glenwood Court and Glen Lakes Court
built to the paved country lane standard, being short
,,-•, ~ ~ 13
;tt. Ip of I
r


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
cul-de-sacs.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say that again, please, Frank.
MR. JOHNSTON: Cypress Glen Drive -- they're
basically all the roads that are thoroughfares that -- that
terminate off of the -- into the future parts of the
subdivision. I think they should be local roads, 'cause we
don't know what the traffic will be eventually on these. But
the cul-de-sacs are pretty well fixed; we know the lots
around those. So, all of them except the two cul-de-sacs,
Glen Lakes Court and Glenwood Court, would be local roads
that -- two would be the paved country lanes. I think that
was the gist of the past variance.
Then, as far as drainage, we had received a preliminary
drainage study on the past layout. I think we probably need
a drainage study on this -- this one's a little different,
and it shows several drainage easements on this one. The one
between Lots 15 and 16 is intended to terminate onto someone
else's property. I was questioning what's going on there.
Some drainage easement continues or -- you know, that could
be a problem. When we have more -- several of them like
that, you know, it adds water to the neighbor's property.
And then the drainage structure at Cypress Glen Drive, it has
50-foot drainage and easement on either side. We need to see
what that structure is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that on here? I never
~... I I 14
~ a a®.
		
	1	have been able to find -- locate that -- the drainage
		
	2	easement.
	3	MR. JOHNSTON: Right there is the --
	4	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next to -- I mean on Cypress
	5	Glen Drive.
	6	MR. JOHNSTON: That's this wide easement.
	7	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So we're talking
	8	about up in here somewhere?
	9	MR. JOHNSTON: I was worried about where it crosses
	10	the road right there.
	11	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's Cypress Glen.
	12	Okay.
	13	MR. JOHNSTON: So that's all I have. He might have
..	19	something to say on it.
`	15	MR. VOELKEL: I can comment, maybe, on a couple of
	16	those items. The easement you talked about on Lot 15 and 16,
	17	that's following -- it's just a natural drainage area where
	18	there's already a ravine there, and it goes into the
	I9	adjoining property, where there is no easement, at least none
	20	that I've been able to find. Although that -- that drainage
	21	area or ravine continues through that property. And that's
	22	the reason it's going into that land there. Just -- it's
	23	just an area that's existing drainage, and we're providing an
	29	easement on our platted side. To my knowledge, there is no
	25	easement on the other side.
,....,		15
,; t r ®~
		
	1	MR. JOHNSTON: As a result of your study, is the
r		
	2	water volume the same, or have you increased it any?
	3	MR. VOELKEL: I'll have to -- I didn't do the
	4	study, so I'll have to ask the engineer that did the study to
	5	resolve that for us, Frank. I really don't know.
	6	MR. JOHNSTON: That's been a problem area before.
	7	We .increase the water even though it's a natural drainage
	8	area.
	9	COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the reason the language
	10	is put in, to be fairly -- you know, in the Subdivision Rules
	11	was because of when we go into a higher density development,
	12	which I think this qualifies, the runoff is increased
	13	substantially, and it -- generally, it's because of roads and
	19	construction. The water starts getting diverted around into
		'
'
	15	new areas. That
s kind of where, you know, it
s hard to
	16	compare, to find out where this waters' going. I'm real
	17	concerned about water being put onto either existing lots or
	18	neighboring property owners that it's naturally not going to
	19	go to, plus we know we're going to increase the amount of
	20	water coming off this property the with the amount of
	21	concrete and roots and stuff like that. So we need to look
	22	at it real carefully as to where this water is all going to
	23	go.
	24	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not much else place for it to
	25	go. I mean, those are natural drainage areas that they have
,,.,.		16
III
;i, ~ ~r ~
r
~.

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
S
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
za
21
22
23
29
25
on here. The one is in this dip right there past the Rio
Vista entrance, right past the entrance to Cypress Springs.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like they're doing it
50-foot.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They don't have a whole lot
of choice.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a couple of
questions. It shows on the UGRA form here that the "EPA
Storm Water Permit copy needed." Has that been done?
Anybody? Sheriff, do you know the answer to that?
MR. VOELKEL: Mr. Moran is here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry. There you are,
Mr. Moran.
MR. MORAN: That's been applied for. And at one
time, was -- my understanding, it was granted and then
reapplied for, and they asked for additional information. We
gathered that information and sent it back to them, so it's
in the process of -- of being reapplied for.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. That may
be something -- knowing the federal government, what EPA is
doing right now, that may be something you'll never be able
to satisfy.
MR. MORAN: Well, we've been working on it ever
since we started, or before we started. And, initially, they
-- they granted us a permit, but it was the wrong kind --
~•.,, ~ ~ 17
r 3 e. a
		
	1	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh.
.~^-.	2	MR. MORAN: -- of permit. It was one that we
	3	hadn't even asked for, and so we reapplied for a different
	4	type of permit.
	5	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One final question. Just --
	6	I can't remember what we did in the beginning. I'm sure this
	7	was brought up. It shows here Cypress Glen Drive comes up
	8	and then turns over this way. But it -- looking at it right
	9	here, Cypress Glen Drive lust continues on and becomes
	10	Cypress Mill Road. Did 911 sign off on that? I mean, it
	11	looks like it's a continuation. That's -- I thought that was
	12	one of the things that we were trying to stop doing.
	13	MR. VOELKEL: I can address that.
	14	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do you know where
		
	15	Cypress Glen begins and Cypress Mill --
	16	MR. VOELKEL: I think that's a very legitimate
	17	question. The owner, Mr. Whidbee, met with 911, with
	18	T. Sandlin. These are the names they came up with. And they
	19	also have -- I think they're revising the street names, but
	20	that -- that will not change the situation that you've got
	21	there where you've got a street running straight, a street
	22	coming off with a different name. To answer that question,
	23	911 has looked at it and they approved it, yes, sir.
	29	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. Dumb, but
	25	okay.
r..		18
		~ i . w. ~ a
	1	MR. JOHNSTON: At one time, you had talked about
.~-~.	
2	
putting curb and gutter on that. Has that been considered
	3	any more, or is that --
	4	MR. MORAN: That will be done, curb and gutter.
	5	MR. JOHNSTON: So you're saying all these streets
	6	now will have curb and gutter?
	7	MR. MORAN: Yes.
	8	MR. JOHNSTON: Okay. Well, that's different than
	9	what it was before. In our rule, curb and gutter streets
	10	have to be 30 foot wide. And that I talked to --
	11	MR. MORAN: Yes. It's -- it says in the local road
	12	that a curb and gutter street has to be 30 foot wide from
	13	back to back, but that issue's not addressed in a local road
	19	or anything. It doesn't even mention anything about curbs
	15	and gutters. So, I'm assuming that -- that, you know, on a
	16	local road, as long as you put the the roads backside of the
	17	easements, what you -- what they call for to address the
	18	pavement would be sufficient. Isn't that correct?
	19	MR. JOHNSTON: I think if you put curb and gutters
	20	in, you'll have a 20-foot-wide road. It would be -- if
	21	anyone parked on the road at all, it would block the road.
	22	MR. MORAN: What would you do -- okay, a local
	23	road, what would you do if someone was parked on it without a
	29	curb and gutter?
	25	MR. JOHNSTON: They could pull it -- they could get
,..,.		19
fir. i ~ x~M ~
f,..,
L

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
on the shoulder.
MR. MORAN: Pull off down into the ditch?
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, usually, you know, there's a
shoulder distance of a certain distance. Depends on the
road.
MR. MORAN: But if -- the shoulder distance is
supposed to be 2 foot outside the pavement, correct?
MR. JOHNSTON: Right.
MR. MORAN: So they would pull onto that 2 foot?
MR. JOHNSTON: It slopes away 3 to one slope.
MR. MORAN: Well, we're trying to put curb and
gutters in here to, you know, help with the water flow and
stuff. But if that's the way -- if we have to go to 30-foot
streets, then we'll take them out.
MR. JOHNSTON: We had talked about that before. I
think 30 foot allows, you know, traffic both ways, and then
if someone parks on the side, you can still get around. It's
very difficult to drive up over a curb to park. Depends on
the curb, of course.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're going to -- the
20-foot -- you're talking putting curb and gutters on a
20-foot road? Is that what the plan was?
MR. MORAN: Actually, a 24-foot road with a 2-foot
deal, so it would be 29 foot from outside to outside. And if
someone is parked on a 29-foot road on the side, and if
y., ~ ~ 2 0
			.n ~ ®,
	1	someone	can can't pull around that with an additional 12
			
	2	foot, I	don't understand that.
	3		MR. JOHNSTON: Most of our roads don't have curbs.
	4	I think	the only ones in the rules say a minimum number of 30
	5	foot, s	o that may be something that needs to be talked about.
	6		COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably need to resolve it
	7	pretty	quick.
	8		COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, resolve it pretty
	9	quick.	
	10		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grant him a variance so that
	11	doesn't	change the rule.
	12		COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying in case of the way
	13	you wan	t it -- describe again, Mr. Moran, what you're trying
	14	to do.	
	15		MR. MORAN: Well --
	16		COMMISSIONER LETZ: What you'd like to do.
	17		MR. MORAN: On local roads, we're planning on going
	18	30 foot	outside-to-outside.
	19		COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
	20		MR. MORAN: On a country lane, which most of those
	21	roads a	re, it calls for 29-foot base and 20-foot pavement.
	22		COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
	23		MR. MORAN: And so we're going to go on the outside
	29	of the	base line, which would be 29 foot from outside the
	25	curb to	outside the curb. And, I understand Mr. Johnston's
~			21
~:~, ~ ,e;
f~^
L_


1 concern about a car being parked there. But, even if a car
2 is parked up next to the curb -- and it would only be for a
3 short period of time -- I think that still leaves, you know,
4 12 to 14 foot for a person to transfer by him. Can there --
5 you know, the curb's 29 foot from outside to outside. And --
6 and in our curb, you know, the terrain next to it will be up
7 flush with the backside of the curb.
8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
9 MR. MORAN: So, if it's a matter -- if that person
10 thinks that he needs more room, it's a matter of going up
11 over a 6-inch curb, and he can drive out there in the middle
12 of the field if that's what he wants to do.
13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the road's going to be, you
19 know, the 20-foot pavement, then you're going to have 2 foot
15 of base and then a curb?
16 MR. MORAN: Well, we're going to have 20 foot of
17 pavement, and then we'll have -- it's 18 -- be 29 inches of
18 curb, curb and gutter. In other words, there'll be a gutter
19 and then a curb.
20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay.
21 MR. MORAN: The road's going to wind up 24 feet
22 from the backside of the curb to the curb. Hut the actual
23 road width will be 23 feet and some-odd inches.
24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And that's --
25 MR. JOHNSTON: You're just talking about those on
22
~;~~~ .o

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
the paved country lanes?
MR. MORAN: Country lanes, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which roads are those?
MR. JOHNSTON: The local roads would be 30 foot
back to back.
MR. MORAN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're talking about the
cul-de-sac roads?
MR. MORAN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem with
that on the cul-de-sac roads. On the -- I think that's
'cause those are fairly short roads, and you're not going to
have a whole lot of, certainly, traffic.
MR. JOHNSTON: All the thoroughfares are local
roads.
MR. MORAN: I don't know if I have the right name
here. What -- what we consider a thoroughfare on here is
Cypress Estates Parkway, which will go on and continue into
the --
MR. VOELKEL: It's the main road going in off the
highway, Cypress -- I'm not sure what's it's called on that
drawing there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cypress Glen Drive, I think.
MR. MORAN: Cypress Glen Drive, which is the main
thoroughfare that goes on and rejoins any additional, you
.,».. ~ ~ 2 3
~~,a:e; i
i"'~


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
know, phasing that we will do beyond that, beyond Phase I.
MR. JOHNSTON: Actually, there's three roads that
go off of the plat. That's what we were talking about
earlier. They could join other parts.
MR. VOELKEL: Going on down there is going to be an
easement. We'll have to address that area.
MR. MORAN: Well, the other road that -- that I
have on here, Oak Hampton Trail, that goes up into a
cul-de-sac and dead-ends, and then there's just an easement
that goes up to the well site.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have different road names.
MR. JOHNSTON: We have different drawings, I guess.
MR. VOELKEL: His preliminary has got this road
still on there. This is just a new drawing.
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. MORAN: This road goes into a cul-de-sac and
this road -- just an easement up there to a well site. This
road actually is no longer there, right here. It just goes
up and turns to the left, and this is the main thoroughfare,
goes all the way up.
MR. JOHNSTON: Apparently, there's another --
another phase to this that I haven't seen yet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to get the new map.
MR. JOHNSTON: I'll put it on the next agenda, have
a chance to look at it.
r ~~ 24
iii ! .G; i I
r"`

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there's a time rush, we
could either do it this afternoon, possibly -- I don't know
what Mr. Moran's schedule is. If he's building roads, I can
see there may be some --
MR. MORAN: I'm available anytime.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we put it off for two weeks,
is that going to cause a problem?
MR. MORAN: We're in the process of trying to get
on the next agenda for the final platting phase.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can y'all get together and
be back in here before noon with it today?
MR. VOELKEL: Sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1:30.
JUDGE DENSON: Or 1:15.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1:15.
JUDGE DENSON: 2.3, consider approval of interlocal
agreement for mental health and chemical dependency
commitments at Kerrville State Hospital and authorize County
Judge to sign same between Kerr County and Sutton Gounty.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So move.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?
{The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: 2.4, consider and discuss
,.~ ~~ 25
Itt~17 ~. q, I

L

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
authorizing a 12/1 grade and step to be increased to a 12/3
due to the lateral transfer of a County employee, and request
a budget amendment of $915 from Part-time Salaries to Deputy
Clerk's Office salaries. Our District Clerk put this on the
agenda.
MS. UECKER: Yeah. And did each of you get a
letter, the backup letter that I sent down with it? The only
thing that I don't need at this time is the budget amendment,
because I'm losing another employee. So, probably what will
happen is that employee will -- the new employee that I hire
will probably come in at a 12/1, so I won't be needing that
after all. But I would request that the employee that I did
hire be -- that you grant the lateral transfer and allow me
to keep her at a 12/3 because of her experience.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, is -- and I don't have
any problem with this one, but there -- I do have some, I
guess, problems with some other parts of this transfer of
people switching around.
MS. UECKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We talked about it the other
day. If we do not approve some of the other changes, I think
they're on the agenda for --
MS. UECKER: 1:30.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're 1:30 today? I thought
that was --
r•. ~~ 26

r

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
MS. NEMEC: Thursday.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, Thursday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's Thursday. If we don't
approve that, is there a chance that employee isn't going to
take that switch, which would then not make these changes
necessary?
MS. UECKER: I don't think so. I think -- I mean,
she's turned in her resignation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, she's going to make t-hat
move, whether or not we do a change?
MS. UECKER: You know, this may not be the time or
the place to say it, but -- and the reason this is happening
is when you can get the same salary or almost the same salary
for a lot less stress, pressure, and work, then, you know,
why not?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, it's the American way.
We have the freedom to do that.
MS. UECKER: That's why I keep losing people. And
that -- again, that supports my position that I've taken the
last couple of years to various Commissioners Courts, that we
need to take a serious look at the step and grade and the
restructuring of -- of the pay scale.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. I think, you
know, we will do that, hopefully, starting next year, as the
new Court -- I've talked, I know, to Judge Hennecke about it
~., ~ 2 7
P.tll :~ i I 1

L_
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
zl
22
23
24
25
-- or Judge-elect Hennecke. I think he agrees. And, you
know, hopefully we'll put it on the agenda early next year
and start looking at steps and grades for all departments.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that this particular
item that we're dealing with today is a little bit different
than a lot of others. Maybe -- I don't know what we're going
to .deal with Thursday, but I -- you know, I don't know, I
haven't looked at that yet, but this particular move here,
the person herself, to me, is justified to do this kind of
thing. She's a proven -- proven employee with I don't know
how many years of service in the County and in the Clerk's
Office. I mean, she was the Commissioners Court Clerk of the
Court here for some time. And so, you know it's justified to
do those kind of things with that kind of employee, whereas
if you bring in a new --
MS. UECKER: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- new person off the
street, that is not justification, in my mind. So, you're
dealing with -- dealing with two different issues there
altogether.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, and that's exactly -- the only
reason I'm here this morning, and just to tell that you I
don't -- at this point, I don't need the -- the money, the
budget -- I mean the line item transfer, because more than
likely I'll be hiring someone at -- at entry level. And --
~. ~~ 28
i 6t U 6.1.' I I

1 ~~ and, Jonathan, to answer your question, I asked that employee
2	this question. You know„ what if the Court does not
3	approve? And she said, Well, you know, it can't be that much
9	less. I'll -- for the difference in the work and the stress,
5	I'm going to to do it anyway. So, that answers that
6	question.
7	COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want everyone to understand,
8	we're talking about the same step, just varying the grade. I
9	believe the other one may involve changing the step. And,
10	you know, if you're changing just the grade, I think that the
11	grades are based on experience. And I think --
12	MS. DECKER: Experience, yeah.
13	COMMISSIIONER LETZ: -- this is the correct thing
14
~	to do on this particular individual.
' 15	JUDGE DENSON: You do? You want to make a motion?
16	COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a motion.
17	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
18	JUDGE DENSON: And your motion is for --
19	COMMISSIONER LETZ: To approve the request of -- I
20	guess the employee,is Tammy, correct? For Tammy to move in
21	as a 12/3 to the District Clerk's Office.
22	JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And that's your second?
23	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, it is.
24	JUDGE DENSON: Okay. All in favor?
25	(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
,..~, 2 9

..+


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
I
2 3 ~'
24
25
JUDGE DENSON: 2.5, consider and discuss approving
TDH grant contracts for grants for AED equipment for First
Responders. Let's see. Ron Derrick, I assume, is going to
be here, but that's just --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: An assumption.
JUDGE DENSON: Let's see. Authorize County Judge
to .sign same.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, it says here the name
of the person addressing the Court is Ron Derrick, and he is
not here. And, I'd rather not deal with it until he's here.
JUDGE DENSON: We'll just move on. As a matter of
fact, the next two items are set for 10 o'clock, which it's
not 10:00, so let's move on down to 2.8, being consider and
discuss amending previous Court order about closing
courthouse at noon on the 29th and declaring it a holiday, a
full-day holiday. And I think Commissioner Baldwin put this
on?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I did. And I'd
like to make a motion that we amend Court Order 25663 to
change from the half a day to the full day. Usually when a
motion is made, there's a second. A lot of the times there
is.
JUDGE DENSON: You know, I don't know, gentlemen.
We have 2.9 that deals with holidays for '98-'99. And I
think, from what I've heard, is that we're going to be
,~.. ~~ 30
iFf 11 Y I ~ 1
1
~.
L~
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
informed that we're giving fewer holidays this year than what
we have in the past, and we should think about maybe granting
additional holidays.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't have any problems
with doing this. I think it's what should have happened the
first time around. If we'd have had that motion to take
place from Commissioner 1 that last time, I think it would
have passed.
JUDGE DENSON: Probably would have.
I
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will second the motion, !,
because I believe it's the right thing to do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Commissioner
Oehler.
JUDGE DENSON: And I'd like to reiterate, too --
and I'm not -- this isn't beating my own drum. I'm lust
saying that, if I recall, back during budget time I mentioned
this very thing to y'all, and no one said a word about it.
That is the proper time to set the holiday schedules. And
here we -- we run into a holiday during the middle of the
year that we see going to work an inconvenience or see that
it's going to cast us in an unfavorable light or something,
and so we want to make changes. And, the timing is what's
wrong. Just like our budget. But we've got a motion, we've
got a second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have one -- I agree with the
~,..~ ~ ~ 31
;:~ ~ ,e
1
.~-
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
-- what the Judge just said. I have no problem with,
certainly, this holiday. I think it should have been
addressed sooner. And I think, also, we're -- this will be
sort of the second year that we've given two days at
Christmas, which is fine with me, but I think it looks like
we're setting a precedent. I think that maybe we ought to
look -- next year, during the budget process, look at this,
if we're going to start doing it, which I think is probably a
good idea; it needs to be weighed against the consideration
of the courthouse being closed to the public for two days at
Christmas. And then -- you know, that is an inconvenience,
but at the same time, I think it's a good policy from our
employees' standpoint, because it's -- more times than not,
you know, if you have two days, you're going to be able to
have a long weekend, a 4-day weekend. You can have it as a
floating day, which can be the 29th or the --
MS. UECKER: Most employees travel at Christmas,
and that's my concern. And last year we didn't have two
days; we had a day and a last-minute half, I think.
MS. NEMEC: No, we had two days. I think when we
look at Christmas holidays, I don't think we should
automatically say we get two days for Christmas holidays. I
think we need to see what day that falls on. Next year the
29th is on a Friday. I don't think we should get the 23rd
and the 29th off. I think we should just get the 24th off.
~..~ I I 3 2
i a ~;
r


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MS. UECKER: It just needs to be addressed on a
year-to-year basis.
MS. NEMEC: We just need to look at what day that
holiday falls on.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then you're resetting the
number of holidays. I think that ought to be fixed. We can
have a floating day; we can either put it at Christmas or put
at Texas Independence Day or Veterans Day.
MS. UECKER: I would disagree with the Treasurer
there, that if Christmas Eve is on a Friday, the 23rd and the
24th would be perfectly wonderful. I mean, on those years,
that would be --
JUDGE DENSON: In actuality, the month of December
would be nice.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, exactly.
JUDGE DENSON: I bet if you'd get a petition,
everybody in the courthouse would sign it.
MS. NEMEC: What if the 29th fell on a Saturday,
though? Are we going to get the 22nd and 23rd off?
MS. UECKER: Or the 23rd and 26th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could publish holidays and,
you know, have one floating day to work around Christmas or
Texas Independence Day or Veterans Day, two that I would
favor as additional holidays.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would hope if this order
~,, ~ ~ 3 3
16! 17 ~ ®~ '~ I
r"`
L_

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
passed here today, that our newspapers would certainly do
everything they could to get the information out to the
public that the courthouse would be closed and then the
taxpaying public could prepare accordingly.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
SHERIFF KAISER: I want to add something. The jail
and the deputies will be working.
MS. DECKER: I'll have one employee working a half
a day on Christmas Eve, anyway, so --
JUDGE DENSON: I mean, you know, think about things
like that. You know, criminals never rest out there.
MS. DECKER: That's right.
JUDGE DENSON: And, consequently, crime fighters
never can stop. 2.9, consider and discuss 1998-1999
holidays. County Clerk, Treasurer, Tax Assessor, Auditor,
and District Clerk want to be heard on this. And I want each
and every one of you to have all the time you want -- you
want to talk about it. Hut, again, this is the wrong time to
add these holidays. The time was back during August. But,
let's see, in the order that appears on the agenda, let me
hear from the County Clerk first.
MS. MEEKER: I have nothing to say, and I promise
you that next year I still won't have anything to say.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, is there a spokesperson, or
,,,, 13 4
.u . ~ r
r"`


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
does everybody want to speak their piece, or what is this
about?
MR. TOMLINSON: I think the idea is allowing what
Jonathan -- Commissioner Letz said, in that we ought -- we
should look at having a set number of holidays each year.
And, maybe if you want more than -- more than one at
Christmas, take it from another holiday. Because a lot of
the holidays that we take now are during the week, and
everybody else in the county is open, and there are a lot of
other counties that are open. So, I think it would be less
disadvantage to the public to have, you know, an extra day at
a major holiday, rather than to have a whole day when -- when
all -- when the banks and all the other counties around are
open. And that was our -- I think that's the consensus of
what we all think. And, it makes more sense to have two days
at a major holiday rather than -- than one day on a Monday or
whatever -- I mean, the schools are open, the banks are open.
So, I mean, that's when it becomes a real disadvantage to the
public to come in, to have the courthouse closed when
everybody else is open.
MS. NEMEG: And working mothers, too, because I
know I have a lot of holidays when my child's in school.
That lust almost doesn't seem right, that they don't -- that
the schools don't have a holiday and we have a holiday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hope y'all hold those

is I ~ 1N l I
.~


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
thoughts until next summer.
MS. NEMEC: We will.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When we get to this, we can
come up -- I think it's a really good point to look at what
the school's holidays are going to be for the year.
MS. UECKER: I talked to each one of my staff, "How
do .you feel about giving up one of those summer holidays?"
And, particularly, the one I'm thinking about is Columbus
Day. Every other courthouse in the state, almost, is open
Columbus Day except ours. And, they would much rather have
the holiday at Christmastime. And as far as addressing this
at budget time, I -- I agree. However, I don't ever recall
being sent a notice to say, come down, we're going to discuss
holidays. I think the Court kind of does that on their own.
And, I would certainly be glad, you know, to help with that.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. We've spent enough time
talking about how important this is. We're not going to
reach any kind of conclusion at all. Let's go to 2.10,
consider and discuss City of Kerrville estray issues. Here
again, we have a matter, I think -- wasn't Chief Dickerson
coming over, Glenn?
MR. HOLEKAMP: He had a conflict.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's right out there.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Is he out there? I'll go get him.
JUDGE DENSON: Let's take up 2.11; we'll come back
~,.,, 3 6
~k~ I~ •C~ i I
r-

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
to 2.10. Consider allowing employees to use accrued sick
leave to make up the pay difference when an employee is out
on Workmen's Comp. The Treasurer put this on. Ms. Nemec?
MS. NEMEC: I was asked to -- to put this -- to
research this and bring it back to the agenda after, a couple
of months ago, Road and Bridge put it on the agenda. And, I
did do some research on it. I talked to Richard Slagle,
Personnel Specialist at Texas Association of Counties, and I
sent him our personnel policy, along with Court Order No.
239199, that specifically specifies in there that our
employees cannot use their sick time to make up the
difference for their worker's comp pay. And, then he came
down last week and we talked, and he said that we are in
compliance with FLSA laws with this Court order; however,
this can be an internal decision that can be made if -- if
the Court wishes to do so. So, that's where -- where we're
at in this. Any questions?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None. I don't think there's
anything to do here. Thank you for the report.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah, I think you ought to take that
up when we take up .holidays.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not in favor of changing
the policy.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not, either. Good
report. Thank you for following through, though.

i i ~ ~u

L Y
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE DENSON: 2.10, consider and discuss City of
Kerrville estray issues relative to Animal Control Services.
Let's see. I -- the way this was started is that I talked
with Deputy Alford back some time ago, and I think -- I think
we were, in the past -- let's see how this should go. Brad,
maybe I should lust let you discuss the issues that you were
facing with Animal Control Services being the people that
should deal with picking up -- what was it, dead animals?
DEPUTY ALFORD: No, I think it was the goat or
sheep the other day.
JUDGE DENSON: Goat or sheep? And that's -- let's
see. The Sheriff's Department, by constitution, deals with
estrays, but we're talking about -- they're horses,
primarily?
DEPUTY ALFORD: Cows.
JUDGE DENSON: And cattle.
SHERIFF KAISER: Now emus.
DEPUTY ALFORD: And exotic livestock.
JUDGE DENSON: And exotic livestock.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And sheep and hogs. And
isn't that -- isn't this list here a part of --
DEPUTY ALFORD: I have a copy of the estray law
that will specify what is and is not or cannot be an estray
animal. It does take in exotic animals, such as water fowl
and emus and --
+,,.. ~ ~ 3 8
I.i II Ni 1 A i


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess this is the same
thing we have here, huh?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like you've been on the
Internet.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Who are you going to get to
claim an emu?
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, Brad, if you would, so I won't
completely misinform the Commissioner's Court and the public
about what the issues were that were facing the Sheriff's
Department that you and I talked about, and -- and that
should be handled by our Animal Control Services.
DEPUTY ALFORD: Well, our concern is for the
Sheriff's Office -- and not to try to speak for the Sheriff,
but we have a $500 budget line annually for estrays. And the
history of me being involved with -- stray animal officer for
the Sheriff's Office, we don't make money off these things.
You lose every time. For example, the other day the police
department called, they had a goat out, wanted us to come
pick the goat up. Well, that's not quite the way we handle
business. What it.says is that you'll contact the owner
first. Well, if the owner is known, it's not necessarily a
stray animal. If the owner cannot be known -- or can't be
contacted, the animal has to be a danger to the public, and
so I don't forsee a goat being a danger to the public.
CHIEF DICKERSON: Oh, yes.
rte. 39
i i ;~


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
DEPUTY ALFORD: Yeah?
CHIEF DICKERSON: That's why we were called.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If someone's attack goat got
loose or --
CHIEF DICKERSON: He was attacking vehicles.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
CHIEF DICKERSON: Bumping into them and stuff. The
owners of the vehicles thought it was serious. That's why I
called.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me --
JUDGE DENSON: But the point -- I mean, what
problems this is causing is that it should be handled by
Animal Control Services, as opposed to the Sheriff's
Department. If the Sheriff's Department's going to handle
it, they don't have the personnel nor the budget to deal with
it.
DEPUTY ALFORD: That's just -- what we do is we
have a gentleman that works at U.S.D.A., to be very specific.
He has a regular job. We normally find neighbors that have
pastureland that let us hold a cow or horse two or three
days. The deputies basically make a 29-hour search of the
entire area. We've found owners, I don't know 5, 10 miles
off, sometimes, to come pick their own animal up. Yeah, it
costs an outrageous fee. And if they don't, then he comes
out after his normal business hours or, like, after 5:00. We
i"~ 14 0
fl Il FYI 6 1


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
have to pay him mileage both ways, then we have to pay the
veterinarians, hospital to hold the animal for 18 days. It's
a horrendous fee.
JUDGE DENSON: Glenn, what is your opinion on this?
Can your department handle these type of animals, these type
of issues that come up?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, we have no capability of ~~
rounding up livestock, you know, within our department. We
don't have the equipment for that sort of work.
SHERIFF KAISER: We don't either.
MR. HOLEKAMP: And, plus, the second thing is we
have no authority as to livestock. None whatsoever. We have
no authority at all. We're strictly cats and dogs and, in
the city, dead animals and that sort of thing. But, really,
we have no authority to pick up any estrays. None
whatsoever. In fact, we were called -- our hand was called
on it at one time. We were trying to help out, and we had to
release the animal back because we didn't have the authority
to hold it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But a Court Order would give
you that authority, correct? We can --
MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't think --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't take the
responsibility from the Sheriff's Department?
MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't think so. I think the
~,,, I 91
Itll :~I !
	1	Sheriff has the total authority, or her designee in the
,~-~	
2	
county.
	3	SHERIFF KAISER: I can appoint him.
	9	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right.
	5	SHERIFF KAISER: I don't have the money to do it.
	6	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In this Estray Code, 192
	7	heze, I went through it last night, and it's -- it mentions
	8	the Sheriff or the Sheriff's designee 34 times. It doesn't
	9	say anything about Glenn Holekamp from Comfort or me or the
	10	Chief of Police or anybody else. It says the Sheriff or the
	11	Sheriff's designee 34 times in there. So --
	12	COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the Sheriff, I mean, really
	13	can't designate another County department unless we approve
	14	it. So, basically, I mean --
		'
	15	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don
t know about that.
	16	JUDGE DENSON: Well, what Brad told me and what the
	17	problem is, I think, is that City of Kerrville or City P.D.
	18	is getting reports, for example, and then and they're
	19	referring that to the Sheriff's Department to do something
	20	about. And, the -- in the past, I believe, before Kerr
	21	County took over Animal Control Services for the City, the
	22	City was dealing with their own estray or -- or goats or
	23	sheep or whatever.
	24	CHIEF DICKERSON: Well, we still try to get the
	25	Sheriff's Department -- if it was livestock that we were
~„~		4 2
II 1 1 1 ~. Y' i 1
r'""
C
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
dealing with, we still would notify the Sheriff and see if
they would take custody of it, 'cause none of the animal
shelters that we've ever dealt with have taken goats or
horses or whatever.
SHERIFF KAISER: And we have never done that.
We've never taken anything from the City since I've been
Sheriff.
CHIEF DICKERSON: That's true. So we have had to
deal with it, even though we didn't want to.
JUDGE DENSON: On your own. And all I'm trying to
do is I'm trying to show the Commissioners Court what the
issue really is. And because we took over Animal Control
Services from the City, they no longer want to deal with
these -- these estray issues, if you want to use the word
"estray" in a broad sense. They dealt with it themselves in
the past. Now they don't have anyone to deal with it, so
they're calling the Sheriff's Department because our Animal
Control Services doesn't deal with it, and it's causing a
problem. So, what we need to do, it appears to me, is, one,
we need to increase the Sheriff's staff in order to deal with
it, or we need to ask her to appoint Animal Control Services
to give her some relief on some of this, if not all of it.
Those are the issues. And I don't know whether it needs to
be done now or -- as is opposed to next budget year.
SHERIFF KAISER: In April '98 we had -- I think it
~.,., ~ 4 3
.'ll ~W 1 I
,r"'~

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
was some goats, hair goats, several head of hair goats we
could not find the owners to. Our procedure is -- like Brad
said, is to try to find the owner, because once we estray
something, then we have to go into -- what the law says, we
have to house them for so many days, then we have to run an
ad in the paper; we have to pay for that. It cost us seven
hundred and something dollars, and we made less than that on
it. So, you know, it lust runs into a lot of money. And our
budget this years is $500, and if we have one estray like
that, like we did in April of '98, we don't have the money.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many calls do you get in
the Sheriff's Department for --
SHERIFF KAISER: We get a lot.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm trying to figure out how
big of a problem --
SHERIFF KAISER: We get a lot of calls,
Commissioner, but we -- like Brad said, we try to find some
place to leave them and call the owners, because we know
there's somebody that they belong to. It might be somebody
that's got them in some pasture; they don't live here or
they're having somebody check on them or something like that,
but we make a diligent effort to try to find the owner
without taking them in as estray. Once we take them in as
estray, then it costs us big bucks to do it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'm trying to see the
~., I I 9 9
~~ i~ ~w
1
.-"-
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12

13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
agreement -- this is not, in my opinion, a wise use of our
Sheriff's Department staff to be looking for owners of
animals. But the other side of it is there's no staff at the
Animal Control facility to do that work right now that I -- I
mean, Glenn, is that correct? I mean, you don't have the
staff to send out trying to find the owners, do you?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, no, not at this time we don't.
But, there again, is the incident like -- and we need to
clear this up. Within the city, I think in the fiscal year
'97-'98, there were three estrays, only three for the year,
so we're not talking big numbers by any means. But, when it
happens, somebody needs to take care of it --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. HOLEKAMP: -- is my point. And I don't know
what the incident of -- in the County as far as how many
animals are actually impounded. I think that number is
probably a whole lot less than those that are reported.
Reporting is a whole different thing, because the owner
notices there's cows out, and he finds the neighbor's got
them. Is that correct, Sheriff?
SHERIFF KAISER: Yes. For instance, we just had a
horse a month or so ago that somebody kept it for 10 days; we
couldn't find the owner. And, you know, a citizen out in
Center Point kept that horse and fed it and everything. We'd
have had to take that horse in as an estray, because we

tpl'1. uM I 1 1 r



1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19~
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
didn't know who the owner was. It would have cost us a lot
of money. That was lust recently. Now, we've got an estray
force, you know, that we know who's got a black cow out in
the east end of the county, who's got a red-faced cow, who's
got horses. We've got a box of estray cards out in the
county. We don't have anything in the city. And the way
this came up in the city, we didn't know this contract had
been signed, and I got a call at home and they said, "The
City's got a goat we're supposed to pick up." I said, "I
know nothing about it." And Monday, Chuck came in and talked
to Brad -- I wasn't there -- and this is how this all came
about. We were not aware of if we were supposed to estray
animals in the city.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What contract?
JUDGE DENSON: Animal Control Services.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When we took over the City's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That doesn't have anything
to do with estray. Estray law says the Sheriff is in charge
of estray.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Because at the City -- the City was
doing the Animal Control, was doing the estray more than the
P.D.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, but that's out of
kindness. That doesn't have anything to do with what's the
law.

Cdk•II aW I !
,r

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
CHIEF DICKERSON: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. See, I've been
watching these hearings, these Washington hearings. This
resembles that a little bit. Let's get down to what we're ~
supposed to be doing. And I think, to me, the law says that
the Sheriff is responsible for the estrays. What do you want
us to do? Do you want more money or are you going to
designate Glenn if he'll accept it?
SHERIFF KAISER: Are you talking about in the city?
Those are two different areas. County and City are two
different areas. That's just -- like I say, that's why --
how we became aware of this. We've always done it in the
county. We've always found a way to do it. We have a policy
and procedure and a way to do it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, then, I don't have a
problem. It's not that much of a workload for to you
designate Animal Control to do it in the city limits of
Kerrville.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If he accepts it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He said there was three last
year.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. And it's not a -- and most --
CHIEF DICKERSON: We can just run them out in the
county, if that's what you'd like.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll just load them up --
r ~~ 97
' 1:111 i1G '.. i I
r~

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
CHIEF DICKERSON: What happens is they come from
the county into the city, so it's actually a county animal
that you should be taking care of. We'll just make sure they
go back out in the county and we'll tell you about it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the end of that. I
mean, in the city, if there's a problem, Glenn can run them
out into the county.
SHERIFF KAISER: We'll be glad to work with Glenn
if there's something that comes up, a big horse or something.
I don't know how many would be in the city. We'll be glad to
work with him.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I don't know, I would
think that -- I don't have a real problem. I don't know that
Glenn -- Glenn probably is better equipped than the Sheriff's
Department to pick up the actual animals if we ever need to
do that.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, a goat, yes. We'd have to
call and pay somebody to do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn doesn't have a trailer,
either.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, we do.
SHERIFF KAISER: We don't.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think if you ever get
to the point of having to estray an animal, it would just be
Animal Control at that point. But, from the standpoint of
~.., I I 4 8
i.i ,m; ~
,.--~


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
the calls in the city and investigating, to me, it needs to
stay in the Sheriff's Department. But I hope that Glenn
would work with the Sheriff's Department if there is any
estray designated.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, I'd be very careful about
picking up some kind of animal other than a dog or cat and
trying to house that at our Animal Control Services building.
You might check with the people, I think, in Uvalde, the
Health Department people that certified us.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Judge, we have another facility to
be able to pen livestock.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Which the City has furnished to us
as part of the contract. Over there on the City farm,
there's a pen.
JUDGE DENSON: Oh. Okay, excellent.
MR. HOLEKAMP: We can put livestock there and water
them and feed them during that period of time. So it's
really not -- but what we're saying is -- is we need the
authority to do it, because I can't leave my people exposed
with picking up an animal and being accused of stealing it.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, I think the Sheriff will be
glad to send you a letter.
SHERIFF KAISER: Yeah. If there's a known owner,
then you could be accused of it. If there's no known owner,
~..~ ~~ 99
Il13 ,Y. I I


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
that's going to be an estray.
MR. HOLEKAMP: The known owner could get with us a
week after it was found. So, then, that's where the problem
came in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the Sheriff will draw up
what she wants, to designate you to help, and will bring it
to .the Court the next meeting, we can accept it -- or you can
accept it and be done with it.
SHERIFF KAISER: Sounds great.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We also have the Ag Barn.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: That's why we used to take
them all.
SHERIFF KAISER: That's a liability, to take them
to the Ag Barn; we found that out. You got to have somebody
to take care of it, like a vet or somebody like that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I say; once it's
estray, we get it into Animal Control at that point. But if
it's lust investigating and looking into it, the Sheriff's
Department's probably far better able to handle that part of
it. They know the people, they drive the roads, they know
likely who the owner is.
SHERIFF KAISER: If it gets to be more -- I don't
know how many the City has. He said three. You know, Brad
handles other things and, you know, trying to find owners --
then we'll come back to you and ask for more help. That's
,,.~ ~ ~ 5 0
Iall .qi I I
~"`


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
all we can do.
CHIEF DICKERSON: We gave you a nice blue horse
trailer.
SHERIFF KAISER: Gave who a horse trailer?
CHIEF DICKERSON: Animal Control.
SHERIFF KAISER: Oh. Not us; we don't have one.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, that's what we'll do. We'll
just -- I think you'll need to monitor the volume of calls,
and then the future Court -- maybe they can look at it in a
budget context next year, see if some kind of relief needs to
be given. But, in the meantime, we'll come back, Glenn, and
-- and get approval by the Court of your expanding your
jurisdiction.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. I just -- one quick -- to
summarize, so I understand, Animal Control will do estrays in
the City of Kerrville, and the Sheriff's Department does all
those outside of the City of Kerrville; is that correct?
JUDGE DENSON: Correct.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay, got you.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, let's go back to our timed
items here. 2.6, open bids on 1992 half-ton pickup from
Solid Waste Program and award or reject same.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. First one, Jennings Anderson.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are those the good guys in

' I:.l II .pi. f I
r~


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
the white hats?
JUDGE DENSON: I would hope so.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE DENSON: Unit $14,191.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That says '99.
JUDGE DENSON: 1999 Ford F-150.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: The bid says --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: '92. `
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: -- '92. It's supposed to be
'99.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just a typographical error.
I was going to say, what are we doing buying a '92 model
pickup.
JUDGE DENSON: One person at a time, please. Okay.
There's an apparent typo on our agenda.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The newspaper ads were
correct, though.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. The next is from Immel Motors
in, Fredericksburg. 514,205.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Is that Ford or Chevrolet or
what?
JUDGE DENSON: That's a 2-wheel drive one-half ton
pickup, Fleetside, -- C-1500, F-150, or a D-150.

i is w ,

C .
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ford, Dodge or Chevy.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever one you pick.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could be a bulldozer in
there somewhere.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, Cecil Atkission. $15,529.
It's a 1999 F-series.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ford?
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE DENSON: Let's see. This is from Crenwelge
in Kerrville. $13,871. That's a 1999 Dodge Ram BR-1500.
Wait a minute, here. I have another bid in here for $15,059.
Okay, the $13,871 that I gave you a moment ago is the Dodge,
and then the $15,059 is a GMC, '99 Sierra 1500. Okay, that's
all the bids. Do you want to give Glenn the opportunity to
compare these?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: And the equipment and such? In
other words, accept the bids --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept all the bids
and authorize Glenn to review them and come back with a
recommendation.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, we we've got a second. All in
favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
~.,,, ~ ~ 5 3
i i. i ; u.


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Glenn, can you do that this
afternoon -- by this afternoon?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. Do you want me to take
them?
JUDGE DENSON: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. The next agenda item is 2.7,
open bids on two vehicles for Sheriff's Department, and award
or reject same.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sheriff, what was -- we had
a little problem with a car last year, something to do -- we
sent out the specs and they won the bid, but at the time the
automobile got here, they had added something -- some stuff
or something, and wanted to charge us for it? Was that --
SHERIFF KAISER: That was the Ford place.
JUDGE DENSON: First one is from Center Motor
Company in Center, Texas.
MR. CUNNINGHAM: Judge, can I make a comment? On
the police vehicle for bid on the pickup, there were some
things she had on there that she wanted that are not
available from Ford or General Motors.
JUDGE DENSON: Would you identify yourself, please,
sir?
MR. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir. Casey Cunninghamm,
Cecil Atkission Motors.
JUDGE DENSON: All right. Again, Center Motor
~,.,, ~ ~ 5 4
fi U A L I

C _
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Company, a bid of $20,114.60 for a 1999 Ford Crown Victoria
police car.
Okay, this is Cecil Atkission. $20,199. That's	a '99
Crown Victoria, and then a second bid of $19,995, and	that's
a 1999 F-series LD.	
Next is from Jennings Anderson, Boerne. Okay, a	1999
Ford Crown Victoria police interceptor, $19,741. And	a 1999
Ford F-150 super cab pickup, $19,816. That's it.	
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we accept all
bids and request the Sheriff to come back with a	
recommendation at 1:00 o'clock.	
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.	
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or 1:15.	
JUDGE DENSON: All in favor?	
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)	
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. If y'all would like to	take a
morning break now?	
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.	
JUDGE DENSON: Let's recess until 10:30, come back
in at 10:30.	
{Recess taken from 10:17 a.m. to 10:35 a.m.)	
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. It is now 25 minutes till
11:00. We're back in session. 2.12, consider and discuss
approving 911 budget. Mr. Sandlin?
r•,, ~ ~ 5 5




1 MR. SANDLIN: Good morning.
2 JUDGE DENSON: Good morning.
3 MR. SANDLIN: Yes, I prepared a packet for you and
4 distributed it. I'll try to be brief, if anybody believes
5 that.
6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't.
7 MR. SANDLIN: There's a summary review in the
8 front. They tried to highlight some of what we did this
9 year. The second part contains the budget as approved by the
10 Board of Managers on October the 12th. There was another
11 little section in there that I put in that tried to be
12 informational, some of of the questions we get asked almost
13 on a daily basis. And then the last section, with the
14 exception of the first aerial photograph, was printed out off
15 of the -- the beta amount CD that we presented a while back.
16 Several people requested that -- particularly the duplicate
17 road name list and stuff like that be in printed form, so I
18 did so. And, I think we did a pretty good job on the budget
19 this year, holding the line and everything. My personal
20 goals, as stated in there, were to have a less than 10
21 percent overall increase and hold our operational costs at 5
22 percent or less than our projected FY '99 funding, and we met
23 both those goals. And it is -- as required by law, we have
24 to present the budget to the County Commissioners Court in
25 three cities for County Commissioners' approval in a majority
56
I l I i A. 1 1


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
of the three cities. It's already been to Kerrville.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we approve the
budget.
JUDGE DENSON: Have we got a second?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After the second, though, I
have some comments. Not really.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a -- I'm glad you
did this. I appreciate you doing this. He showed -- in this
budget, he has listed the multi-named roads and the roads
with other problems. Roads with other problems. And as I
went through here, I can see clearly that we have problems.
And I think that I -- I understand also that where you guys
are headed or where you're trying to go, and -- and I can
only speak for myself, that if we sit down enough -- and I
think the new guys are wanting to do the same. If we can sit
down and go over these duplicate road names and roads with
other problems, and just sit down and visit, have a workshop,
that we can get to the bottom of this thing. We can get --
maybe at this time next year, when you show up with a budget,
we won't have this ,list in here. But I really would like to
do that, and I appreciate you including that in here. This
is the first time I've seen a list. Good.
MR. SANDLIN: Gentlemen, also our G.A.S. Committee
is that close to finishing up the new guidelines that we

I {_.I9 ~& i I



1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
propose to present to you. We think we've discovered a way
to alleviate some of this problem; it will lust turn the
county upside-down as soon as they get finished. I had hoped
that would be ready before the end of this year, but due to
other things and other people's commitments, it will probably
be January or February before we get those guidelines to the
Board and distribute them to the entities for them to look
at, but it's almost there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just between you and me, is
it the Grid program? Is it --
JUDGE DENSON: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. The
agenda item is consider and discuss approving 911 budget. I
have a motion, there's been a second. All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
MR. SANDLIN: On a sideline, there were some people
that asked me something, and I'm lust giving you this lust
for general information. Y'all can pass that around. That's
some of the stuff that we track. The main reason we track
that is for the fire department: crop moistures, river
density studies and stuff like that. Any time y'all need an
update on any of that stuff, if you'll give me 29 hours to do
it, I can produce that information for you on almost a daily
basis.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would it be useful to -- either
,,.~ ~ ~ 5 8
1.4 d7 6W I I

r"'-
~~
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
the first or early mid -- early to mid-January, sometime in
January, to have a workshop where you go over your plan for
the year and go over exactly when we're going to, you know,
definitely be done with the road issue?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir. And if we can get
somewhere where I can -- I can bring my little computer and
projector and shoot this stuff up on the wall instead of
having to go through mounds of paper, when you can see what
we're doing, when I can shoot computer screens up on the
wall, it makes a lot more sense.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But anytime in January? You
don't have -- is that a time of a lot of work for you?
MR. SANDLIN: January and February, I will say just
about any time, I'll make work rounds. We've got a bunch of
stuff going on at State level. I was up till 1:30 Friday
night with some stuff that's 911-related. It's really,
really important; we're going to have to monitor it in
January when the Legislature starts.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll get with you in January.
JUDGE DENSON: I would suggest that we let the
County Judge-elect ,get in touch with you in early January,
and after him consulting with the Commissioners, pick a
convenient date. We're going to have a workshop.
MR. SANDLIN: I'd love to. I think it would answer
a lot of questions I can't answer sitting here talking.
~.., ~ I 5 9
.~ ~w :.
1
r
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll tell you what, I'm
looking forward to the renaming of all those duplicate roads,
and not be sitting right here. I'm going to be in the
outside world watching y'all.
JUDGE DENSON: 2.13, consider and discuss Child Care
Initiative contract between Texas Workforce Development,
Inc., and Kerr County. I put this on the agenda at the
request of Workforce Development, and I think we have a
couple of people here that want to speak on on this, maybe
educate us about any issues that remain outstanding on this,
because this has been a -- a battle getting to this point.
Commissioner-elect Bill Williams, who is on the Board, is
here, and I'm going to to ask Bill at this time, this
contract, in its present form, is satisfactory to you? Do
you recommend the Court approve it?
MR. WILLIAMS: Well, Judge, it doesn't necessarily
have to be satisfactory with me, but it is a contract that
embodies the changes that were sought by Commissioners Court
and by the two vendors here in town, to whom it makes some
difference, particularly on the Child Care Initiative monies
that they have raised in the community and what happens to
those monies and where they go. And, the other mayor issue
being who performs the certification of eligibility for those
families who are in need of use of these funds? So, after a
lot of debate and a lot of work by some members of the
~ I 60
'ili ~.Y i I

,^~
l
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
Workforce Development Board, the issue -- that particular
issue -- those two issues were resolved in this contract.
And, it was sent to you with the hope that it would be put on
today's agenda, which it is, for the purpose of approving
same, because it has to be approved and put into place before
the end of this year. Otherwise, the funds which are
earmarked for the purpose, you know, could go astray if it`s
not in place. And it would be retroactive back to September
1st.
Now, subsequent to all of that happening and you getting
the contract in the form in which you see it, there was a
memorandum dated December 9 from Sharon Wade and Brenda
Chapman outlining some areas of concern of theirs. And that
memorandum is addressed to you and it's addressed to me. I
don't know what you did about it, since it was addressed to
you. I know what I did about it. And, I haven't talked to
you in person, but I passed it back to Alamo Workforce
Development, to people in the Contracts Department, without
comment. And, as I explained to Brenda and to -- or to
Sharon Wade, particularly, as a member of that Board, it's
not a good position. for me to be in, to negotiate with that
staff on behalf of a couple of vendors here. Notwithstanding
the fact that the -- you know, we did get involved in talk
about solving the major issues.
So, what I've done with this particular memorandum is to

I t I I dl ' ~.


.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
send it to the Contracts Department without any comment, and
asked them to research the rules and regulations regarding
these issues. And if there -- these changes were warranted
or necessary or made good sense, then to initiate some
changes and send a revised contract back. I take it that you
haven't heard from them? Because I can tell you, I haven't
heard back from them.
JUDGE DENSON: No, I have not.
MR. WILLIAMS: So, I guess what we need to do is
figure out whether or not these changes are substantive
enough to be made, or whether the Court should proceed with
-- with the contract or approval of the contract subject to
additional changes or whatever. But, my basic point is that
the major issues that we were confronted with four to six
weeks ago have been resolved by -- by the language in this
contract, which allows those initiative monies to stay in
Kerr County and to be used here for the benefit of the people
for whom they were intended. It also would require
subsequently, Judge, the Court to designate the two vendors
who raised these funds -- the Court designate them to be the
recipients. And that's all the input I can give you today.
Now, Sharon may have some more -- I see she's in the
audience; she may have some more things to say.
JUDGE DENSON: Thank you, Bill. Ms. Wade?
MS. WADE: Yes. Really, basically, the document
,..~ ~ ~ 6 2
I f I i .W i 1
	
	1
r	
	2
	3
	4
	5
	6
	7
	8
	9
	10
	11
	12
	13

19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
that we gave you kind of covered it. The big two concerns
that we had was just to make sure that -- in all the training
and all the meetings we've ever been in, we were told that
the most that could be charged to that federal pot of funding
was 5 percent for administrative fee. So, when we read over
the contract and saw that C.C.M.S. would be charging us 10
percent per billing on those children that they're going to
be processing the billing for now -- things that we used to
do for free here in the community will now be done in San
Antonio, and they want to charge 10 percent for that -- I was
concerned that if we signed off on that and said that that's
what we would do, and found out later that all we could be
reimbursed as a County or community was 5 percent from that
federal fund, I didn't want somebody else out hanging there
with the 5 percent. Because I know our local funders think
that the administrative fee is -- is at zero, because this is
what we've always told them; we would do it for free. So, I
was a little bit concerned that there was somebody left
holding, basically, the bill for that other 5 percent, so I
wanted to make sure, 'cause it's been about a year since
we've spoken with Frank Lyle, our T.W.C representative, and
he told me that the 5 percent was the cap for administrative
fee.
And, the other issue that maybe -- I don't know, maybe
we're being just a little sensitive, but maybe the other

1117 4i I I ,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
.-~-
issue we would have liked to have seen was the actual
spelling out that the clients would receive services locally
3 days a week at the One-Stop Center or whatever C.C.M.S.
facility they chose to do the intake at. But, that was what
was promised to us here in this courtroom during one of the
meetings by Al Notzon, the AACOG representative -- Executive
Director of AACOG, and we would like to make sure that that's
still an issue, because, as of this date, we're not having
regular services for these clients here in our community.
It's still a 1-800 number. Basically, what they could use is
a 1-800 number, and every now and then, there's been one
person here on a Thursday. So, we want to make sure there's
still going to be these 3 days a week local services, because
our clients do not have the transportation, and a lot of them
don't have the long-distance services to call into San
Antonio to take care of their intake.
That was the two biggest issues. There were a couple
other terminology tidbits that we put in there, but we could
probably live with all the rest of it if we got those two
things ironed out. We were thrilled that there is a contract
to even be trying to iron out.
JUDGE DENSON: And that's --
MR. WILLIAMS: Judge, that raises another point in
my mind. The -- a couple of these points that Sharon talks
about, then, very well may need to be worked out between Al
64
Itll .Ili' i l
s


1 Notzon and his -- his subcorporation off of AACOG, which is
2 handling these matters, as opposed to A.W.D.; where, for III
3 example, she raises the question, how many days a week are
9 they going to staff the One-Stop Center down here? That's a
5 decision for them, that's not a decision for A.W.D. And, so,l
6 you know, we may have a couple things here that have to be ~,
I
7 swung over to Al Notzon for his resolve, as opposed to the
8 contract people at A W.D.
9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember when Mr. Notzon
10 made that comment here that day. Mr. De la Garza and Ms.
11 Valdez, that they were kind of all in agreement that that's
12 the way it was going to work.
13 MR. WILLIAMS: That's true, Commissioner, but it is
19 their bailiwick to do it, and it is signed off on that, so
15 they have to make that decision.
16 JUDGE DENSON: That's an administrative decision,
17 it's not contractual.
18 MR. WILLIAMS: Right.
19 JUDGE DENSON: And I think what we need to do is
20 approve this contract. Because it does -- it is a contract
21 with -- we've been operating without a contract since the 1st
22 of September, and it does accomplish the major roles that
23 they -- we were wanting and which had been refused up until a
29 few weeks ago.
25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just have one
65
i ~ :u



1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
question of Sharon. On the agreement, the cover sheet, where
you make reference to speaking with Kathy Spurgeon?
MS. WADE: About the quality improvement monies?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and the direct care.
Is it important -- how important are those two little items
right there?
MS. WADE: We felt like that, by gust having the
checkmark in the one area that said Not Pre-K, that that
might read that we couldn't continue to serve our school-age
children, which we do serve a lot of school-aqe children with
this program. So I did make a note in my notes that I'd like
them to relook at that, and perhaps they need to put a
checkmark by the Pre-K so that they'd know we are serving
school-age and Pre-K children. And the quality improvement
monies, we were explained in Austin by Kathy Spurgeon, who is
Diane Rath's -- Commissioner Diane Rath's assistant, that we
are now eligible for quality improvement monies. If we want
to go out and raise dollars for that and have them matched
federally, then we can go in and we can provide teacher
training, equipment, supplies, and things for special-needs
children off of funds that we raise and receive the federal
match for those funds, do that also.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my question is, if we
approve the contract today -- and those things are not
checked on there. I mean, do --

~ ,M

r"

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
MS. WADE: Well, then we could be in trouble.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry?
MS. WADE: We could be in trouble in that we are
currently serving children's ages that are not going to be
covered over that contract if we can't get that part ironed
out. That's true.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That bothers me a little
bit, but whatever y'all want.
MR. WILLIAMS: I asked that question, Commissioner,
of the contract people specifically about that, whether the X
marked in the box, Direct Care, excluding -- parenthetically
excluding Pre-K, not Pre-K, whether that was a prohibitor for
them doing Pre-K, since they're already doing it. And, the
response I got was, We'll doublecheck it. He didn't think
so, but he'd doublecheck it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My concern is -- I mean, as to
what you're asking us to do -- Sharon sent us a letter with
several points that they thought needed to be changed in the
contract, and Bill is saying that this has to be done by the
end of the year. Are you sure you want us to approve the
contract as-is?
MS. WADE: Well, that's a tough decision. I want
that contract approved before we lose the earmarked money,
that's for sure. I would hope that, maybe in good faith, if
they've made some omissions on the contract, you know, that
~.,, 16 7
iIC 17 Y~' l 1


L _
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
they would take care of that in the interim if we were to
send up a signed contract and said maybe we felt like you
forgot to put this X where it belonged, or could you do that?
I don't know how easy they are to work with at the point the
contract's already been signed. I've not -- I've not made a
contract with A.W.D.B. before, so I don't know lust how they
would feel about us making some suggestions.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill?
MR. WILLIAMS: Probably could let it slide for two
weeks, but if it's going to be put in place, it has to be
done before the 31st. You probably could let it slide till
the 28th, but that's cutting it awful thin. You know, maybe
that gives us couple a more weeks to see if some of these
other little issues can be resolved, but if it's not in place
by the 31st, that gives you more problems.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When you say "in place," does
someone else have to approve it before we --
MR. WILLIAMS: You have to approve it and sign it,
and it has to be signed by A.W. before the 31st of this year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That may -- I would think that
may not be possible if we wait till the next meeting.
MR. WILLIAMS: That's kind of my point. It's
getting awfully close.
MS. WADE: And their officers do take, you know,
the traditional holiday times off.
,.-. ~ ~ 6 8
i t 17 ,~R~ I I

/"
~.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
MR. WILLIAMS: Theie will probably be some holiday
time in there, as well.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who is the individual that
would negotiate the modifications Sharon's letter outlines?
MR. WILLIAMS: The Contracts Department, guy named
Jerry Perez, P-e-r-e-z.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's somebody -- I'm trying
to find out who --
MR. WILLIAMS: Well, that's the person.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He is the person that would
have the say, I guess, on these modifications?
MR. WILLIAMS: Well, he's --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He would take it to him?
MR. WILLIAMS: He would take it to Nicky Valdez if
there had to be some some on-high clarification.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They have repeatedly said
that they were workable -- I mean, that they would work with
us and look at issues as we go along. I -- I, for one, think
we need to go ahead and approve the contract and hope that
the great State would be able to work with us on some of
these issues.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're saying that -- and
if anyone else disagrees, please say so -- approve the
contract as presented, with the request that they incorporate
the provisions of the letter from Sharon dated December 9th?
r,... 6 9
i`~ ~ ~ O ~ ~
r"'`

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MS. WADE: Yes, as long as we're accurate. I don't
want to presume to ask them for 5 percent if that's no longer
the accurate figure. You know, I just want to make sure that
-- that we're not being charged more than what we can be
reimbursed for the administrative fee. And that -- also,
that all children who are currently being served, age-wise,
will still be served by this contract; that that won't cut
out one age group or another just by an omission of an X.
MR. WILLIAMS: My understanding is that the policy
is in place right now allowing administrative fees as high as
10 percent. And, apparently, the AACOG folks think that's
what they need. Otherwise, it would have been stated that
way. My recommendation, Judge, would be that you approve it
today, subject to some additional -- whatever. And, also,
the Court is going to be required to -- to designate Sunshine
Day Care Center and Kerr County Day Care Center as the
recipients of these funds in a separate Court order
subsequent to your approving the contract. You may want to
put that on the 28th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we
approve the contract as presented and request that the
provisions set forth by the letter from Sharon Wade on
December 9th be incorporated, if possible.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: If possible? I don't want to -- and
~.. ~~ 70


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
I know we're, maybe, getting into semantics or
technicalities. I don't want it to -- I want us to approve
the contract, period, and that should be very clear.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what the motion said,
approve the contract as presented and request that they
incorporate these --
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. If possible.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, you know, if
they do. If they don't, they don't, but it's -- we're
accepting the contract as presented.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
MR. WILLIAMS: There are going to be some things
they can work out, perhaps, and some that they cannot.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, that's good enough. We've got
a second?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE DENSON: All right. All in favor?
{The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: And that also -- that motion
includes authority, of County Judge to sign the contract.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we need the second motion,
Bill, which was for --
MR. WILLIAMS: Well, either a second motion today
or a subsequent action, a Court order designating these two
day care centers as recipients of these particular funds.
~,.., 71
i ,.w i
~'"~

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We probably need a separate
agenda item for that, I think, by the wording of this one.
JUDGE DENSON: I think we do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that need to be done
before the end of the year? We'll just put it on the next
agenda.
MR. WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And those two vendors are
the only two which --
MR. WILLIAMS: At this point, who have raised any
matching funds. Is that correct?
MS. WADE: That's right.
MR. WILLIAMS: Now, if, subsequently, another
vendor comes along and raises some -- some funds, their name
could be added to the Court order.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. 2.14, we have a presentation
by County Extension Agents. Let's see. We've got Eddie
Holland here and Laurinda Boyd. I thought I saw Janie.
MR. HOLLAND: Janie's sick today.
JUDGE DENSON: Oh, she is? Okay. Yeah, come on
up, Eddie, Laurinda.
MS. BOYD: They said I'm first.
MR. HOLLAND: We'll be brief.
JUDGE DENSON: Let me say that Thea and I went out
to the Extension Office Friday and had a bowl of chili, some
,,.., ~ 7 2
611 µ i l


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
tamales and other real, real good food, and it's something
that's done every year and all of y'all get invited. Whether
you go or not is -- that's your business. But I know the
last few years, I've gone, and it's not only good food -- and
I like the cost, too, free -- but, they gave us a report,
both Janie Squire, who's Consumer Sciences and family-
oriented efforts, Laurinda Boyd with 9-H, and then Eddie
Holland, basically, about everything that's at the office or
that the Extension Agent's doing, and its successes. I was
real excited to hear some of their -- their presentation, and
asked them to come down here and -- since the Commissioners
won't go out there.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: I didn't know nothing about
it.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, how did --
MR. HOLLAND: I don't know. It was mailed to each
one of them. I don't --
JUDGE DENSON: But, anyhow --
MR. HOLLAND: I don't know how -- sometimes the mail
messes up but -- sorry.
JUDGE DENSON: I wish we could have had Janie, but
I understand her being sick. 'Cause she -- she is one of the
people that asked me, "What do you think you've accomplished
in your term of office?", which is a pretty broad question,
but she specifically comes to mind. Glenn Holekamp and Bruce

C. I ! '» A'
1
r'~-
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Oehler and Butch Lackey can appreciate this more than, maybe,
Buster or Jonathan, because when we fought with the Extension
Service, the offices, particularly a lady that was more or
less in charge of this area down in Uvalde, it was quite a
process. We selected Janie and her skills, and literally had
to -- had to go to bat for her. She moved here from
Galveston, I believe, and is doing just an absolutely
outstanding lob. We're really, really proud of that woman
and the efforts and everything she's done for Kerr County and
the kids. Laurinda? Go ahead.
MS. BOYD: Well, I'm here to report this morning
that there are 909 members in the 4-H program going on right
now. And we also have from our -- we have to do a report
every year, and we had 2,901 kids in special-interest groups,
and in school enrichment programs also. You know, things
that either Janie and I, either one, go to the schools and do
some special programming and stuff. And we have those kids
on -- the 909 kids are involved in eight traditional clubs,
and their projects include food and nutrition, and I am
reporting now -- and this credit goes back to Janie, 'cause
she does the home economics-based programming. We had, for
the first time, a young lady place first at District on food
and nutrition, so we were very excited about that.
MR. HOLLAND: And a 5th-place.
MS. BOYD: Our number -- and a 5th-place also,
~.. ~ 7 4
4 I I c p, '
1
rr`-
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
L .
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
that's right. And so we're very excited about that. And
that programming is continuing to grow, and it's a very
important area. Also, she's been able to get a sewing group
going. It's small, but it is growing. It's more than we had
in a long time. This is kind of a dying art, so we're
particularly proud of that, that we've been able to get that
going. Our methods demonstrations and record books, you
know, continued to, you know, keep our numbers there. Our
9-H rodeo program continues to grow every year and keeps
growing and expanding. Veterinary science, our trap and
skeet program, and then our livestock program.
A lot of the activities our youth are involved in
besides their clubs and projects are on our judging teams,
which continues to be very successful. Our horse-judging,
wool-judging, mohair-judging, soils-judging, livestock-
judging, and, of course, you know, in the wool-mohair, we
continue to do real well with those groups at State and
National competition.
We -- I think that one thing that I'm particularly proud
of on our youth is,that we continue to get a large number of
our youth to our leadership camps that we have throughout the
year. We had a large number go to District recently.
Tri-county leadership training, District 10 Leadership Lab,
we had the largest group of 13 kids to go New Mexico this
year to Leadership Lab, and so that's great, because they're


y
,~

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
getting -- you know, broadening their horizons in leadership,
getting to meet other kids in other areas and learn how they
can be more involved at a District or State level. Out of
the District Leadership Lab this summer, we were very, very
excited, 'cause, for the first time, we came out of there
with a District 10 Chairman. After all the years, we've
never had a District 10 Chairman.
And our young lady, Abby Harrison -- I know y'all have
seen her little face in the paper -- six years ago, when she
started 4-H, set this as a goal; that she wanted to be
involved on a not only a District level, but on a State level
also. And, so, she was District Secretary last year and was
able to get District Chairman this year. And then this
summer she went -- not this summer, a couple months ago, went
to Trinidad and ran for State office. She only missed State
office by one point. But, she was still was very excited,
and she will serve as a State delegate all year long, so
we're very proud of that.
The opportunities she has been afforded are lust
once-in-a-lifetime things. Not only did she get to go to a
real special training in Trinidad that, you know, national
speakers are at, but she was at the State Fair of Texas
representing us this year and was able to do some leadership
stuff there. And then in June, she'll be at State 9-H
Roundup, which is our statewide competition with 2,600 kids

l 17 k tli ' i I
1
r
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13

14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
there. She'll be on the leadership team for that, and that
is just a wonderful opportunity. So, we're very, very proud
of her. Not only that, but she's coming back and on our
District -- on our 9-H Council, she's coming back and using
all the things that she's learned, and she's training those
kids every month on a lot of the skills that she's learned,
so we're getting some valuable experience there. So we're
very proud of her.
Our -- then, also, our summer camps, also we continue to
have numbers on our urban development. I'll just say real
quickly, 'cause we know we're short on time, Billy Snow, our
project leader on Trap and Skeet, continues to work on
finding grants and individual money to build the new trap and
skeet range. He's doing real well on that, and hopefully
we'll be able to get started soon. Once we have that in
place, it's -- I think it's going to be really important,
because we will be able to increase our urban numbers. You
know, kids that aren't able to be involved in livestock
projects and stuff like that. And they'll be able to
increase their numbers in that project and, through funding,
we can provide rifles so kids that wouldn't normally have the
opportunity to do that type of thing can be involved. So,
we're really excited about that.
We have 270 youth that are doing livestock entries a
year with the County-District show, and we have 86 youth

' I ~. I I 'i Y I i.
r t
,


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
going to the major shows, which our numbers are up on that.
So, we're really proud of that, 'cause we do very well every
year at the majors. So, we'll be busy, you know, hauling
them. Appreciate your time. Thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: Thank you. Thank you very much.
MR. HOLLAND: As y'all know, this is a busy time of
year. The stock show -- we've got all the entries in for all
the County and District and major shows, as she said, so
we'll start in making project visits during the Christmas
holidays, try to get around -- especially some of the new
kids, to visit them, see if we can help them out getting
ready for the stock show this year. But it has been a busy
year. We do appreciate the time inviting us into the court,
Judge. Thank you for inviting us in to give a summary.
I know Janie, she -- I talked to her this morning. She
did apologize for, you know, being sick and unable to be
here. She had to cancel F.C. luncheon she had last Friday
because she couldn't talk at all, and -- but as you heard the
other day, B.L.T. is a new statewide program that she is very
involved with, and going to hire an aide at no expense to the
County or anything to help on this. But, Better Living for
Texans, mostly for people in low-income, to do that. So,
it's a new program; I don't know all of the details about it,
but it should help, you know, teach nutrition. So they can,
you know, better take care of themselves.
r- II 78
t 17 N i i 1

r'~

s'.^,
1 On my portion, of course, home horticulture continues to
2 be a huge thing. As you expect, when you have a county where
3 more and more people move in, want to know how to grow things
4 in our area that's different from where they've been. And
5 she kind of keeps a log, Susie, on different things. I said,
6 Just tell me how many phone calls you have that's dealing
7 with that, and she says -- she did some computing, pulled
8 back her log. She said well over 3,000 calls a year that
9 come in, and most of them are dealing with those types of
10 calls. Publications, she estimates over 67,000 publications
11 that we either reproduce or the Extension Service puts out.
12 A lot of it now is on E-mail so they're not putting it out in
13 hard copy any more; we have to make copies nowadays. And
14 over 1,200 people come into the office asking different
15 questions, and again, primarily in those areas of the home
16 horticulture area.
17 But we did have meetings for hay producers, for
18 livestock people, for the wildlife people throughout the
19 year. For our goat people, which continues to be a big
20 thing. We're going to have an International Meat Goat
21 Conference here in .Kerrville that I'm coordinating, a 3-day
22 conference here. We hope to fill every -- we think we will
23 fill every room in Kerrville. We're working with the -- the
24 Convention and Visitor's Bureau on that. It will be June --
25 last of June. We're expecting over 800 people to be here at
79
F. IJ 4Yi' I !
r^


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
this conference. And, if you'll drive the roads now and
look, used to be the people used to keep the goats in the
back 40, and now you're seeing the goats move to the front of
the road, and you see that more and more. People buy the
small acreage, and they call in and say, What can I do to --
put on my place? I can have an ag exemption, but to try and
actually make something, too? So, you're seeing a lot more
of the goats, you're seeing a lot more of the redheads, the
white bodies, you know, out there, and we're seeing a lot
more in the way of our ranchers today kind of switching over,
doing some different things.
So, pecans, that's one presentation really why we're
here today. We just finished up our pecan show, Hill Country
show, and our regional show. And the courthouse usually has
some entries each and every year, and this year wasn't a good
year for pecans, but Glenn and some of the Maintenance guys
went out and helped select some pecans, and I weighed them up
and at the County show, Hill Country show, the Kerr County
courthouse won a third-place native, this big tree that hangs
over the sidewalk here. It had the second place Tejas. We
planted two Tejas trees in 1976; one right out here, and one
over here. This one over here is the one the pecans come off
of. They were second, and with the Tejas. And, kind of a
novelty division we call lightest native. This big tree
right out here that hangs over the road, also, as you drive
,.., ~ ~ 8 0
~61i Iq' 1

v`~

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
6
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
around; it has very small pecans. And, so, I picked out the
lightest ones, and it was the lightest native and received
1st-place ribbons. It's going -- it went to Regional, it
also won 1st-place at regional. It will be going to the
State show. The Te7as was second place at Regional, and it
will also advance to the State show. So, you have two
entries going to the State show, and -- and these entries.
So with that, I submit this to the Court. Also, I'd gust
like to say thanks to Butch and thanks to Buster. They
served on the Court --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wait a minute, I'm not
Buster.
MR. HOLLAND: I mean Hruce.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know which one of us
you offended the most.
MR. HOLLAND: I'm sorry, I apologize to both. But
to Bruce and also to Butch, you know, as leaving the Court,
appreciate your support over the years that you provided to
us, and the Extension Service and the fine building we have
out there today. So, thank y'all very much. Thank you for
your time, and I'll, present these ribbons to the Judge here.
JUDGE DENSON: Thank you. Thank you very much.
Very, very proud of y'all.
MR. HOLLAND: Thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: And your accomplishments.
~ I 81
Hill fGii . !

L_
r
1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eddie, did you -- did you
2 actually plant the pecan trees?
3 MR. HOLLAND: I came here after '76. That was
9 probably Harkey's time. See, I came here in '82.
5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
6 MR. HOLLAND: But in every courthouse in the state
7 in .1976, they planted Tejas, for Texas. It's not a great
8 pecan. It's fair. It's really not a really super pecan, but
9 -- you know, after the State of Texas name, Tejas, and it's
10 in every courthouse; they planted them 1976.
11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, if I can make a quick --
12 I'd really like to publicly thank Laurinda, Eddie, and Janie.
13 They do an incredible job, put in far more hours than they
19 really get paid for, all of them, and spend untold hours with
15 the kids and in our community. They really do a great job
16 and we really appreciate what they do. Eddie, I think you're
17 a little bit modest on the pecans. I don't know if everyone
18 else knows, Eddie's probably one of the State experts on
19 pecans, if not the State expert on pecans, and judges them
20 all over. And we're real fortunate, from a pecan standpoint,
21 whenever he talks, it's like we listen. He knows pecans.
22 MR. HOLLAND: Thank you. Thank y'all very much.
23 JUDGE DENSON: He knows nuts.
24 MR. HOLLAND: Not many things I know, but when
25 people bring their pecans, I can tell them what variety it
82
Y II AY 1
s


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
S
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
is, how the tree is crossed, what percent kernel is it, and
the size; I can tell you that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know pecans.
JUDGE DENSON: Eddie, you were talking a while ago
about goats being a more respected animal now. More emphasis
being put on on ranching and all. We heard this morning that
there's such a thing as a country goat and city goat. Chuck
Dickerson, he was saying that some of our country goats --
our county goats outside the city limits are winding up in
the city and causing estray problems.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Attacking cars.
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, we had one.
MR. HOLLAND: I hadn't heard that problem. But --
JUDGE DENSON: Thank you both.
MR. HOLLAND: Thank y'all.
JUDGE DENSON: 2.15 -- David? 2.15, consider and
discuss Release of Lien held by the Kerr County Bail Bond
Board, which no longer is in existence. Gentlemen, this is a
subject where some of the -- some of the paperwork, some of
the backup material the County Attorney has. I got a call
from a title company out of -- where is that?
MR. MOTLEY: It's in Georgetown.
JUDGE DENSON: Georgetown? People wanted to close
a real estate deal, but the County has a lien against some
real estate that, a number of years ago, was pledged to the
.r-. I 8 3
i I I GN' i



1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
Kerr County Bail Hond Board as collateral on a bail bondsman
that lived here. And, the Bail Bond Hoard and this bondsman
is no longer in existence or in business, so I turned the
matter over to David. And, in telling me what to do, I had a
brief conversation with the Sheriff earlier today, and I
think it's the consensus of the parties, myself and David and
the Sheriff, that we want the Court to give me the authority
to sign the lien, conditioned upon Sheriff Kaiser and the
County Attorney searching and making sure there is no more
bonds outstanding on this particular bond company.
MR. MOTLEY: That's right. It's -- it's Alliance
Bonding that was doing business in Kerrville as Skip's
Bail-Out, and it was a 2,400-square-foot improved track in
Williamson County. And, the Bail Bond Board is not in
existence. The lien arose when this property was pledged as
security in May of '90, and I lust got word, lust as Thea was
in the back of the courtroom there, that the Sheriff said
she'd like to look into a couple things a little bit closer
before anything final was done, but I don't see any problem
with the Court authorizing Judge Denson or his successor to
sign on that if the Sheriff is satisfied that the security is
still there to cover any other outstanding bonds, 'cause I
know there are some outstanding bonds yet on some people.
This one -- there were several homes and improved tracts and
stuff over in Williamson County that were pledged to the Bail
~,,., I I 8 4
s ~ e
r"•

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Bond Board. The Bail Bond Board looked into it, and there
was -- our bylaws and such that we operated under in the Bail
Bond Board did not provide for what happened to the property
upon the dissolution of the Bail Bond Board, and the statute
really does not, either. But it is pledged, actually, to me
as Trustee for the County, and I was going to suggest that if
and when the Sheriff approves it, that the Judge and myself
sign the Release of Lien and let them go ahead with that
transaction.
JUDGE DENSON: Is there a place for to you sign it
also?
MR. MOTLEY: There is not. We could probably do
our own Release. As I say, I just got word from the Sheriff
that they want to do a little bit more checking up on it. I
was unable to speak with them last week. We can do it this
morning. They're going to need just a little more time; they
want to actually kind of go back through some old bonds and
be sure. So, I would -- if the Court's comfortable with it,
I guess I'd go ahead and recommend that -- recommend that we
be allowed to sign.if and when the Sheriff has completed the
search, and I'm sure it can be done before the end of the
calendar year.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. But, anyway -- and,
gentlemen, the reason why we need to do this is because it
does operate as cloud on the title of that real estate, and
t,.~ 18 5
i tl! n.14 ' i

r^

.^
~'
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
it's in a title company now; they're trying to close a sale.
And, while we're not, you know, that interested in the
results of that sale, we don't want to be in a position where
we interfere with the sale if we otherwise should release --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no way Kerr County's
going to benefit if we don't do it, so --
JUDGE DENSON: Well, if there's still bonds
outstanding that this real estate is secure -- security for,
or if there's some kind of bonds where we did revoke or go
after, and they were never satisfied, I don't know.
MR. MOTLEY: We would still have a contract. We
would still have a right to sue them under the bond. This
gives us a ready source of money, should the bonds have to be
-- I guess you'd say satisfied.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there are bonds out there
that this is pledged against, would you recommend that we
release it in that instance, or --
MR. MOTLEY: No. We would prefer to hold onto it.
It just depends -- there were CD's pledged, and there was
property pledged out-of-county; different types of property
have been pledged. I know over the years, as their bonded
obligation to the County has decreased, from time to time
they've come in and asked to release the liens on certain
property and such. They had pledged a number of -- I want to
say I think the family owns quite a few houses in Georgetown,
86
r
~.
.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
I kl! IR'' i
and they've gradually tried to decrease, and the County
really -- the Sheriff has tried to make sure that there was
yet enough coverage there to secure the bonds that were
outstanding, and they are looking at that right now to make
sure what else is there. Some of these people, we'll
probably never see them again. You know, some of the people
on the bail bonds are probably gone, and they'd be -- we may
never see them again.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to approve the
Release subject to the Sheriff's concurrence or --
MR. MOTLEY: Well, a report from the Sheriff,
maybe? I think this is the thing do, as the Judge said,
assuming that we have enough property pledged to cover
whatever bonds are outstanding. They're no longer getting
any new bonds over here. I mean, we're not doing business
with them and haven't been for -- golly, six, seven years,
probably.
JUDGE DENSON: Just give me -- let's see, I'll move
that County Judge has authority to sign Release of Lien on
this subject matter, subject to the approval of County
Attorney and Sheriff.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, second. My only
hesitation was we didn't have any backup.
JUDGE DENSON: He has it all.
,,"` ~ ~ 8 7
~ i r'

r

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. MOTLEY: There's really not much backup.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is, when you say
"subject matter," we didn't -- hard to make sure if we never
look at what we're referring to.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. And I had sent it to David
and didn't make copies of it. And, anyhow, he and the
Sheriff missed each other talking and -- and it got a little
strung-out and prolonged.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as the minutes reflect
what we talked about.
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah. Okay, we've got a motion and
second. Further discussion on this? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And we have an 11:30 deal
here, award certificates of achievement to student winners of
Creative Writing Contest sponsored by Kerrville Writers
Association.
MR. MOTLEY: Do you want me to ask them in?
They're out here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says 11:30 here. They
possibly could be waiting for a mama and daddy.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, let's get them in and we'll
find out. Let's see. Are you Mrs. Snyder?
MS. SNYDER: I am.
JUDGE DENSON: And, Mrs. Snyder, my name's Bob
..~, ~~ 88
i {. 11 4&' I I
e
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
~.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Denson. I'm the County Judge. And, in order, Precinct 1,
Commissioner H.A. "Buster" Baldwin; Precinct 2, Commissioner
Butch Lackey; Precinct 3, Commissioner Jonathan Letz; and
Precinct 9, Commissioner Bruce Oehler. And, we've done this
in the past, and a number of times, and we're always real
excited. Oftentimes we're dealing with County business and
County government issues, money and headaches and problems
and crises and all those things, so it's very, very
fulfilling to get involved in human issues, and particularly
children's issues, as it relates to excellence and their
moving through the education process. So, we welcome you all
and we're happy you're here. And, we'll congratulate you
individually in a moment, but certainly as a whole right now,
all the kids and their parents. Thank you, Ms. Snyder.
MS. SNYDER: Well, thank you for allowing us this
time. And, this is our fourth year to sponsor the Short
Story Contest. The Kerrville Writers Association membership
volunteers their time to receive and catalog the manuscripts,
as well as judge them, and then edit them with each of the
winners, and that's always been a very rewarding experience
for us, as well as .entertaining. Everyone will have the
opportunity to read each of the short stories in our papers;
they graciously print all winners, 1st-place through
Honorable Mentions. This year we have five corporate
sponsors, which has excited the Writers' Association no end,

i t I! !.M I i. 1

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12

13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
because we started out with a meager donation in the
beginning, and now we're able to cover substantial gift
certificates from the Main Book Shop for books, which we
think is real important, rather than handing -- handing
somebody a dollar bill or a check. So, we would hope that
that would encourage the young readers to become better
writers. So, we want to thank all of our sponsors, and those
are Norwest Bank and Bank of the Hills and both newspapers,
the Mountain Sun and the Kerrville Daily Times, as well as
our new sponsor this year, the Kerrville Rotary Club. Today,
the Kerrville Writers Association wants to publicly
acknowledge and congratulate the winners. And the
certificates that will be issued today by Judge Denson will
be for 1st through 3rd places, as well as Honorable Mentions
in two categories; the 5th and 6th graders competed, and the
7th and 8th graders competed with each other. So, we thank,
again, Judge Denson for allowing us this time to share the --
to share the glory.
JUDGE DENSON: Certainly. These are the
certificates I have in the folder that you gave me?
MS. SNYDER: Yes, sir, uh-huh. They should be
pretty much in order. We had two students that aren't here,
and I did take their certificates with me, so everybody
should be here.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Commissioners, how would

r


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
'~
12 ~
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
t ~ ~~ r'
y'all prefer to do this? I would like, maybe, for the
children to come up and come through here, and I'll give them
their certificate, but maybe they can shake your hands.
And, as I call your name, you just come through and
shake hands with Commissioner Baldwin and all of us as you
come to us, and I'll actually hand you your certificate when
you come to me. But, the first is -- and this is the
Kerville Writers Association's 1998 Fourth Annual Student
Short Story Contest, and awards 1st-place to Jordan Isom for
"The Land of the Lost Dragons." So, Jordan?
(Applause.)
JUDGE DENSON: Awards 2nd-place to Megan -- is it
Nidever?
MS. NIDEVER: Nidever.
JUDGE DENSON: Nidever. Okay, Megan. Excuse me
for mispronouncing your name.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of those Hunt school
kids, Judge.
(Applause.)
JUDGE DEiJSON: Next, the 3rd-place to Matthew
Scozzari, for "The Egg."
(Applause.)
JUDGE DENSON: Next is Honorable Mention to Gloria
Fields for "A Young Girl and Her Monkey." Gloria?
(Applause.)
r. ~ ~ 91
r"`


1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
{ 11 wi' I !
JUDGE DENSON: Next is 1st-place to Brooke Toole
for "A Cowboy's Night."
(Applause.)
JUDGE DENSON: Next is 2nd-place to Fran McCrae for
"The Sabrewolf."
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Listen, were the girls that
cute when we were that age? I don't remember that.
JUDGE DENSON: Next is Honorable Mention to Heather
Gage for "Froggy Joe."
(Applause.)
JUDGE DENSON: Is that it, Ms. Snyder?
MS. SNYDER: Yes, thank you very much. Judge, we
did have two other winners that weren't able to be here from
Notre Dame. Georgios Gramatikakis for "The Wizard, Lizard."
That was 3rd-place, and then Claudia Venegas, an Honorable
Mention for "A Day to Remember." So, we'd also like to
congratulate them.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Once again, thank y'all for
coming. This is something that we've always had a real
interest in, and this offers a time for the Commissioners
Court to actually get excited about getting behind something.
MS. SNYDER: We'll give you the same opportunity
next year.
JUDGE DENSON: We leave it -- we'll have some new
/" ~ ~ 9 2

L .

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
c a ~a
Commissioners and a new County Judge come in, and then
they'll have the opportunity.
MS. SNYDER: Start a new tradition. Thank you.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, we'll be in recess until 1:15.
(Recess taken from 11:40 a.m. until 1:15 p.m.)
JUDGE DENSON Okay. It's 1:20, the 14th of
December, '98, and we're resuming the Commissioners Court
meeting to take up the matter 2.2 again and consider revised
preliminary plat from Cypress Springs Estates, Phase I,
Precinct 4.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The color makes looking at it a
lot easier. I was looking at it out there. They've changed
it a lot.
JUDGE DENSON: Go ahead.
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, just got a copy of this a
while ago and had a few minutes to look at it, but right now
there's one main road that goes -- meanders through the
subdivision, Cypress Estates Parkway. The other three are
cul-de-sac roads which do not extend past the subdivision.
I'd still like to resolve the issue of curb and gutter. I
think the only -- the only reference we have in our rules on
curb and gutter is having a 30-foot-wide street. I think all
~.",• I I 9 3
I L I I ~~ I I
,r.


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
these 24- and 20-foot is just too narrow; going to create a
traffic hazard. I don't know why they would want to --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Curb and gutter's not
mandatory, right?
MR. JOHNSTON: No.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You'd save yourself a lot of
money if you don't put a curb and gutter in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason you want to
put curb and gutter in?
MR. MORAN: Well, one is to just help control the
drainage.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The drainage? Erosion?
MR. MORAN: Number one, and erosion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, to me, the Oak Hampton
Trail is too big of a road or too long of a road for the
20-foot with the -- with curb and gutter. I think the other
two are, you know, maybe acceptable. There's quite a bit of
traffic, I would suspect, on that Oak Hampton, where Glen
Lakes and Creekbrook Court are fairly short roads. But, I
mean, I guess --
MR. JOHNSTON: However, they're very small lots.
They're --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One and a half.
MR. JOHNSTON: You know, the frontages on them
are --
r^ ~~ 94
;1 U v0' I
r"
L

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty close.
MR. JOHNSTON: I haven't had a chance to look at
this. Some of these frontages are lower than our minimum
now, too, it looks like.
MR. VOELKEL: I thought we had them all at
200-plus.
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, Lot No. 9, that's what I was
looking at, it's 120. The one next to it is 162, and all of
them in this cul-de-sac, Glen Lakes Court, is less than --
not all of them -- not all of them, but there's two, maybe
three of them that are.
MR. VOELKEL: I think the minimum for those is 120,
because they're less than 2 and a half acres.
MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, maybe so.
MR. LEE VOELKEL: I believe that's what that is.
I'll doublecheck that to make sure.
MR. JOHNSTON: I haven't had time to really look at
this.
MR. MORAN: In less than 2 and a half --
MR. JOHNSTON: Anyway on these small lots, say Lot
No. 9, you know, someone -- there's only room for one
driveway. Someone has a Thanksgiving party, where are people
going to park? They're going to park on the street. They
have a 20-foot street and 8-foot car, there's 12 foot left.
Cars can't meet on the street.
r"^ ~ ~ 9 5

/"'•

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
2 3
24
25
14 11 Ga ' !
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like our preference
would probably be not to put curb and gutters in; save you
money, but at least on the narrower roads. I mean, I do see
-- I would agree with Frank, I think it would be a traffic
problem, potentially, with curb and gutters. I mean, curb
and gutters are certainly nice if the road's --
MR. JOHNSTON: If they're the proper width, great,
it makes the subdivision look a lot better.
MR. MORAN: This parking issue I don't understand,
because if you park here on a city street, they will come and
tell you to move, because there's no parking allowed.
MR. JOHNSTON: In my neighborhood there's cars on
the street all the time.
MR. MORAN: In my neighborhood, it's -- a policeman
will come and ask me to move my car.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's a difference
between City and County. I don't think the Sheriff here --
you know, we generally don't do that, do we? I mean --
SHERIFF KAISER: Not unless it's a traffic hazard.
If it's a traffic hazard, we do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if they're on the road,
they'd be a traffic hazard here.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, you know, there's -- I may be ~I
offbase in my thinking on this, but I've always said, in a
gated community where there is -- these are truly private


.--.
C


~t.I! q.I I
1	streets, I mean,	not	only	privately	owned,	but they're	going
2	to be privately	used,	it's	not open	to the	public, and	I
3 would assume if you do not want to have parking -- homeowners
4 to have the right to park on the streets themselves, that you
5 can prohibit that by subdivision rules and regulations.
6 MR. MORAN: Well, that's correct.
7 JUDGE DENSON: Specifically addressed in your -- in
8 your rules and regulations, restrictions. So, I think -- you
9 know, I just -- I don't see a problem, myself.
10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't either. I don't see
11 a problem also with the fact that they're going the extra
12 mile, looks to me like, to put curb and gutter, which will
13 cut down on -- it will make their drainage plan work, where
14 otherwise it might not work without them. It is a gated,
15 private subdivision; it's not open to the general public. I
16 think that's one of the key things, and I appreciate you
17 bringing that up, is that it's not --
18 MR. JOHNSTON: However, our rules do cover those.
19 Whether or not they're open to the public or not.
20 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, rules are made to be
21 changed and variances given when necessary. And, I can't see
22 that this subdivision is doing anything less than trying to
23 be first-class, and I wish we had more just like it.
24 MR. JOHNSTON: Seems like what -- what you're
25 suggesting is that they never have anyone to visit. They
97



1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
lU 1i~i 1
can't park in the street; doesn't look like there's room to
park anywhere else. That's my concern. People do park on
streets when they visit houses.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Park in the driveway.
MR. JOHNSTON: Unless they have a big driveway.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason it's our call is
because if there is a fire back in Lot 20 and there are cars
parked up and down through all the way up there, we can't get
equipment in. And that is our reason to make a -- a call,
and that's why it's in the subdivision rules. So, I think
there's a public safety issue that we do need to make a
decision on, and if we're making -- approving a subdivision
that has roads that are too narrow, you know, knowing human
nature, to get emergency equipment back there, I think
there's a problem. And -- you know, I don't want to spend a
great deal of time on this particular issue. It's the second
one in the county where we have curbs and gutter even
proposed, which is -- you know, it is a great -- they're
trying to put in a first-class subdivision, but I'm lust
concerned that the road's going to be too narrow with curbs
and gutters.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you'd have to get into
a situation where you had a car parked on both sides of the
street exactly across from each other. If they were up or
down the street a ways from each other, you could still go
~.-. I ~ 9 8
t I! u11 '_ I I

r'""
L .
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
around them. You're not talking about an 8-foot-wide car;
you're talking about 6-foot-wide. The trucks are 8 feet,
cars are 6, pickups are 6. So, if you got 20 foot, that
still leaves you 14, the way I calculate it out. And 19 feet
-- if you can't hit that, you don't need to be driving.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they're private roads,
and in my view, very likely to become public roads at some
point. And if they were public roads, then we certainly
could stand on our rules. But, being as the curb and gutter
is there, which enhances not only the subdivision, but to
keep the water off of the driving surface, where the
maintenance -- goes down, I am willing to grant a variance if
that's what -- if that's what's necessary here.
MR. JOHNSTON: Once I do this, if we grant a
variance that's not normally -- you know, it's not in any
standard reference manual, you'd say it's substandard, what
does that do if someone has an accident? Is the County
liable?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: It wouldn't be, not in a
private --
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, we're approving it.
JUDGE DENSON: No. No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know.
JUDGE DENSON: We're asking -- excuse me, the
developer, property owner, is asking us to grant a variance.



1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

MR. JOHNSTON: Well, he really hasn't formally --
it's not on the agenda to ask for a variance.
JUDGE DENSON: Well, what we're doing is sitting
here wasting time. I mean, why don't we just call another
subject?
MR. JOHNSTON: Preliminary plat approval.
JUDGE DENSON: Exactly so. In the context of a
preliminary plat approval, we have to discuss these things
that affect our rules.
MR. JOHNSTON: Right, and discuss them. But I
think a variance -- don't you have to put that on as a
specific item?
JUDGE DENSON: I can't see --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is not final, this is
only preliminary. Suggest changes to come on the file.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Do I have a motion to approve
preliminary plat?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Do I have any further
discussion on this?
COMMISSIONER LET2: Only discussion I have is that
this -- I'll just make a comment for Mr. Moran -- is that
since the plat has changed quite a bit, and Franklin's
,,.~ ~ ~ 10 0
1
r
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
~.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
i{Il LLI l I
acknowledged he has not really looked at it in depth -- the
road issue I think we've heard, but the drainage issue you
may have to look at again -- and this is not me automatically
filing plat approval, in my opinion.
MR. MORAN: No.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly.
JUDGE DENSON: And I agree. I think that's a point
well-taken, and it would be awfully nice if that -- and I'm
not pointing fingers or finding fault or anything. It would
be awfully nice, when we have this thing back in here,
whether it's next meeting or after the -- after next year, is
that if the engineer is well prepared, as well as everybody
on the Court, to talk about these things and the specifics,
rather than to sit around here and hem-haw around. Okay.
All in favor?
tThe motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
MR. JOHNSTON: This was changed between this
morning and now, so we're supposed to have two weeks to
prepare for it.
JUDGE DENSON: I understand that. I think under
those situations, what you're going to have to tell the
subdivision owner or property developer is that we lust can't
put it on this meeting; we're going to have to go to another
meeting, because you've made a last-minute change.
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, I had a drawing that I was
~,..., 101

r

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
relying on this morning, and they changed it in the meantime,
if you remember.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably should have deferred.
MR. JOHNSTON: Probably should have deferred it.
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, sir.
MR. JOHNSTON: There is a number of things they
have not done for the final yet. But I -- we'll no doubt be
ready for the next meeting.
JUDGE DENSON: Good.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Franklin. Thank
you for being a good County employee.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, let's see. We need to -- we
need to take up the bids. The Sheriff reported to me that --
you have the report on the bids, Sheriff?
SHERIFF KAISER: Yes, sir. Looks like Jennings
Anderson gets both of them. And here are the copies to come
back to the Court for their file.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. They are --
SHERIFF KAISER: They got the better bean, the
lowest bid.
JUDGE DENSON: And is your suggestion that we would
accept --
SHERIFF KAISER: Jennings Anderson on both
vehicles.
JUDGE DENSON: Approve that bid?
,,.., I 0 2

r
~~
r-
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
i a
SHERIFF KAISER: Yes.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Motion and second. Further
discussion, comment on this? All in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Mr. Holekamp? And insofar as
the Solid Waste Program pickup, do you have a recommendation?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. Crenwelge Motors, the bid of
$13,871, which was the low bid.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
MR. HOLEKAMP: The bid is over there, Misty has it.
COMMISSIONER LACKEY: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, we have a second by
Commissioner Lackey. Did you get the motion by Commissioner
Oehler?
MS. CASS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. All in favor?
{The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: And, then we have a 1:30 matter,
open bids for Phase III of the courthouse renovation and
award or reject same. Before we -- before we pick this up,
Mike, let me -- while the Sheriff is still in the audience,
she and I had a brief visit before we resumed our meeting
103

r.


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
22
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
t l i S a I !
relative to 2.15, consider and discuss Release of Lien held
by Kerr County Bail Bond Board, which is no longer in
existence. And she told me she's looked at the bonds
outstanding, the collateral or security that's still in the
possession of Kerr County, and that she sees no reason why
this release can't be done.
SHERIFF KAISER: I can go ahead and authorize the
Treasurer to release it, and I'll get you a copy for the
tile.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay, and that's fine. The order we
passed this afternoon -- and I'm certainly not trying to
intervene in any kind of established circle or circuit of the
way these things work -- is that the title company contacted
me and sent me a Release of Lien and wants that, and the
Court approved me signing the Release. And Barbara can do
one or whatever she needs to do, also, but --
SHERIFF KAISER: She'll have to do that from the
authorization of me, and that's the way it's done. We've
already released one to them.
MS. NEMEC: That's normally how we do it. I didn't
say anything this morning; I thought maybe this was something
different, 'cause David said that he was Trustee and I
thought maybe this was before my time. So, I -- that's why I
didn't have a problem with anything this morning.
JUDGE DENSON: Who knows how -- what the motivation
r II 104
.
r^

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Ili :a ( !
is by the title company contacting me and mailing these
papers to me and asking me if I would sign them in order to
facilitate the closing of the sale of this property. And, I
immediately got David involved saying, What is this, and do I
have authority to do so? And let -- let's bring us
up-to-date. But, anyhow, per our order this morning, is that
y'all gave me authority to sign the Release subject to the
Sheriff's approving, which she has. Okay. Now we'll go on
into our bids. Mr. Walker? Open bids for Phase III of the
courthouse renovation and award or reject same.
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I passed you out
a bid tabulation form. I believe the County Clerk has your
bids. There are four or five there.
JUDGE DENSON: Everybody get one?
MR. WALKER: If you don't care to read all the
details -- we've asked for a lot of things on the bid form.
You may just read -- however, you may just want to read only
the base bid, and then I can digest the rest on there;
whatever -- whatever you feel the requirements are. There's
a lot of detail on the bid form.
JUDGE DENSON: And we're interested in two things:
money and quality.
MR. WALKER: As we all are, yes, sir.
MS. UECKER: And time.
JUDGE DENSON: First bid is American Restoration,
r..,, ~ ~ 10 5

,,"`

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1411.fi~~ i !
Inc., out of New Braunfels, Texas. Base bid, $3,282,800.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't like that one.
MR. WALKER: Please keep going, Judge.
JUDGE DENSON: What's that guy's name that gave us
-- Devore? Was that his name?
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: Do we -- if the bids come in
substantially higher than what he estimated, do we get a
refund of part of our fee?
MR. WALKER: See, that is something that's at the
Court's discretion.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. This is from Stoddard,
S-t-o-d-d-a-r-d, Construction Company out of San Antonio.
$2,519,000.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a nice $700,000
savings.
MR. WALKER: Excuse me, Judge. Who was the first
one? I didn't hear.
JUDGE DENSON: The first one was American
Restoration, Inc.
COMMISSIONER OENLER: Do you need the amount, as
well?
MR. WALKER: No, I think I got that.
JUDGE DENSON: The next is C. A. -- initials C. A.,
and the name Landry, L-a-n-d-r-y Company, Inc., out of San


r^
lr
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I I I I ~ it i. 1
Antonio, $3,025,000. Next is -- it looks like Peco. It's
P-e-c-o Construction Company, General Contractors, San
Antonio, Texas, $2,959,000. And that's it.
MR. WALKER: Would you like me to go ahead and fill
in the rest of the items off of there and then bring this bid
tabulation back to you for your consideration?
JUDGE DENSON: Yes, I think that's what we would
like.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion to accept all
bids.
JUDGE DENSON: And turn them over to Mike Walker.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And turn them over to Mike
Walker.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: For analysis.
JUDGE DENSON: And I got a second. Further
questions, comments? All in favor?
{The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Mike, let's talk logistics
for a minute. When do you propose to come back to Court on
this?
MR. WALKER: Well, I'll need to go through these,
but, I mean, I may be back in an hour or so. I -- it just
takes -- I'll have to fill in all these and make sure that
everybody got their bid bonds and everything's appropriate.
r.,, 10 7



1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

But I'll come back whenever. I mean --
JUDGE DENSON: Let me know something within --
within an hour.
MR. WALKER: Okay.
JUDGE DENSON: If -- even if that is -- I'm going
to need more time.
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: Let me hear from you within an hour,
please.
MR. WALKER: Will do.
JUDGE DENSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's one of those items
that we could recess till tomorrow.
JUDGE DENSON: I know it is, but let's not make
that decision yet.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not. I was just saying
that we wouldn't have to put it on Thursday. Couldn't, as a
matter of fact.
JUDGE DENSON: Right, unless we reposted. Yeah,
there is something else I do want to mention. Item 2.18,
which is approve order authorizing the issuance of Kerr
County, Texas, tax anticipation notes, Series 1998, approving
a purchase contract, paying agent and registrar agreement,
and -- and an official statement and authorizing all other
instruments and procedures related thereto. Bob Henderson is
~..., ~ 108

,.-..
~.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
l 11 +U'' I
-- was going to present that, and we're going to have to
recess on that until Thursday, the 17th, at 1:30. And it's
already been reposted to comply with open meetings. And
since that happened, we came across two other items that's
going to be on that agenda Thursday, and they have been
posted also, which is dealing with the County Clerk's office
and the J.P. 2 office.
Okay. I think that takes care of our open meeting
matters. We need to go into Executive Session at this time
and deal with pending and possible litigation. We'll hear
from Tom Pollard, who's here, and then the continuing
Warrant --
JUDGE BROWN: Do you want me to step out while
you're doing that?
JUDGE DENSON: No, yours won't take but about a
minute, so why don't we lust -- you just stay in, Judge.
JUDGE BROWN: Okay
JUDGE DENSON: So we'll recess at this time our
open meeting.
(The open session was closed at 1:45 p.m., and an
Executive Session was held, the transcript of which
is contained in a separate document.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. It's about one minute after
2:00 on the 14th of December, '98. We're back in open
session. We need to, one, make a motion -- I make a motion
that we approve the letter prepared by the Javore law firm,
.-~. I 109

~-
L
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
a wu .
representing us in connection with litigation involving the
Law Enforcement Center, relative to settlement negotiations.
That's my motion.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE DENSON: Further questions? Comments? All
in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. And, as I stated, I'll follow
up with Ilse Bailey, Assistant County Attorney, with regard
to reaching some kind of acceptable conclusion on this
Kerrville Credit Bureau matter.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what about the
Michael Walker deal? What do we --
JUDGE DENSON: We're going to have to just hang
loose a little while until we hear from him.
JUDGE DENSON: We'll be in recess right now.
(Recess taken from 2:02 p.m. to 2:20 p.m.)
JUDGE DENSON: It's 2:20, the 14th of December,
'98. We're back in open session dealing with our bids on
Phase III of renovations to the courthouse. Mr. Walker?
MR. WALKER: Thank you, Judge. We've -- we
inserted all the rest of the -- the alternates that we had.
There were some obvious misunderstandings on the bid form on
a couple things, but don't even -- I don't believe they even
.~-~ 1110

r~
~,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
lz
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
i u ,
show up on here, do they? No, they don't. It had to do with
what the mark-ups were and so forth, but we can get a
clarification on that. If you -- if you back out the ones
that are important on our low bidder, Stoddard, from the
$2,519,000, the -- we've -- I've written up at the top what
each one of these are. Roofing is a deduct, to go to a
10-year roof instead of a 20-year roof, which, to me, $11,000
would be a very good investment for what you're going to do.
So -- but I've gone through and I've given you two columns on
the end down there under where I've scratched out -- one of
them's entitled "Net"; the other one is "Deducts Only." I
took out all the pluses and minuses in the Net to give you
that number, and some of those were add-backs, as you can
see. Like some, under Alternate, made that as a positive
figure, and some made it as a negative figure, and some made
it almost nothing. So I never know why these guys do what
they do. But, anyway, that is -- that Net under that column
reduces it that much. If we take --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, before you get me too far
wrong. So, the Net column is if you lust take out all these?
MR. WALKER: All the pluses and minuses.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's 1 through 5?
MR. WALKER: Well, actually, there's a 6th one that
didn't get on the form; that handwritten column down there is
a 6. And some of these were lust 0's, but this particular
,... ~~ 111
.
t .

L~
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
I i u Ni I
one was minus 1,000.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. WALKER: And then we could take that or not
take that. But, as you see, it gets down in the $2,344,000
if you take only the deducts. In other words, we don't do
any of the add alternates in there, which is fine. And all
of .t he alternates, really, that they priced to us are the
ones that I think are acceptable and certainly worth
recommending.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the Alternate 2, phypon?
What is that?
MR. WALKER: Phypon is -- instead of cast stone,
we're trying to imitate the cast stone that's on here. We
use a phypon material. I'm not sure I showed it to you that
day, but it's a material that's a polymer, and it lust looks
like it. It's real lightweight and you can work with it.
It's like wood, and it's lightweight and causes a whole lot
less problems; like, back on that north entry, it's going to
be a whole lot easier to do it out of phypon. Essentially,
it's stucco, instead of built into the masonry wall like cast
stone would be. So, you know, the teacup hooks thing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But phypon --
MR. WALKER: But it -- I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's cheaper to use phypon?
MR. WALKER: Yes. Well, I think everybody -- did
,,.,, 112
1
r
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13

19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
I I I~ Y. 6 I
everybody say that? Yeah, everybody said the same thing.
Some of them just gave a -- a huge amount of money, almost
$200,000, back on that, but these folks had $160,000. And,
frankly, we were hoping that that would be the situation,
that there would be a substantial savings. I still have not
heard back from the State Historical Commission as to whether
or not they would fight us on that or not, but that may be
done on other courthouses, other historical buildings, so
we're assuming the best there. But they changed
architectural reps down there, so I'm having a little bit of
trouble getting an answer out of these people.
But that -- this really is -- is good for you. The only
thing that concerns me about it, we've just tried to reach
her, and she's on her way -- Tricia Stoddard was here a while
ago, and she's on her way to another pre-bid meeting, so I
couldn't get her on the cellphone. Obviously, we have a bid
bond; you have a 5 percent bid bond. Theoretically, they
have to stand behind this. People have forfeitted bid bonds.
As you know, in the first go-around on Phase I, gave them a
bid bond. So, that's strictly up to you. But I -- what
concerns me is that if you jump up to the next highest
bidder, it's 2 million 7-something -- $2,757,000. That is --
represents about, what, 20 percent difference? And, you
know, something to make somebody back out of a bid. That's a
lot of money. So, if they will stand behind the $2,344,000,
,.,, ~ 113

.~-~

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I I I pl ' I I
that would be our recommendation to you at this time.
The bid bond looks all right. I'm not a lawyer, but the
bid bond looks okay; it says 5 percent.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mike, you're saying if they
will stand behind it. I mean, surely -- they quoted these
numbers to you. I mean --
MR. WALKER: Right. But, I mean, it's not unheard
of for a contractor to look at his bid --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Change his mind?
MR. WALKER: -- and say, Oh, I don't think I want
to do that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At what point are we going
to know whether they're going to stand behind it or not?
MR. WALKER: I lust have to get in touch with them,
and the person that was in charge of this bid took off to
another pre-bid meeting.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- do you know Stoddard
Construction or are you familiar with them?
MR. WALKER: Christine has worked with them before
down in San Antonio, and she's --
MS. HARRIS: Yeah, they seem to me to be a pretty
reputable bunch of guys that do pretty good work, so I -- I
don't have any reservations. ',
MR. WALKER: They have submitted -- they were one
of the ones that had not given us their qualification
,,., ~ ~ 114
r-
C

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
p t I
statement ahead of time. They gave it to me with the bid,
which we did allow them to do, and I just, frankly, have not
totally gone through there to find out if that is -- you
know, that everything checks out. The thing that they very
seldom do -- let's see if she did it. They will give you a
financial statement -- no, this is a little better. This is
April 30th, 1998, and I haven't had a chance to copy it, but
that would -- might be a thing in question. We just had not
-- I think they did send us one, but it was dated, like, from
April '97. So, this was of some concern to us, that it was
that old, and we asked them --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It appears the reason for their
bid being quite a bit low is they calculated as being one
month shorter construction time. They have 30 days less than
the other three did.
MR. WALKER: Well, that's the only thing that's
obvious to us that would account for a substantial difference
in price.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're looking at slightly
over a year.
MR. WALKER: But in terms of -- I mean, in terms of
overhead, that's a problem. You know, maybe $10,000 or
$15,000, you know, even for a large contract, I would
imagine. Such -- you know, that doesn't account for all
the --
,r. ~~ 115
~ ~
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19

15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
~ i W i.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the overhead part, but
that still -- if they're calculating 30 less work days,
that's a lot more than $15,000 in 30 days construction.
MR. WALKER: Yeah. I'm just saying it's pure
overhead. We had -- just in summary, we had nine general
bidders by the time we got the plans out to everybody. Four
backed out before today, and one I talked to this morning did
not indicate he was not going to show up, and he didn't. So,
we felt like, as busy as the climate is right now, four bids
on a project this size, with everybody having to come from
out of town, this is probably about as is good a
representation as we could have. It may not be the best set
of numbers, and certainly we would all like to see it less,
but I think it is a fair bid, and within the -- what we have
projected if she will honor that bid -- or Stoddard will
honor that bid, not try to back out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we could actually --
he's recommending Stoddard, and we could --
JUDGE DENSON: I guess so. This company -- this is
a 3-million-dollar company; they have $3 million worth of
assets. And the year ending April 30th, '98 -- put them on a
fiscal year basis -- they lost $247,000 from operations.
That doesn't sound very good. But, let's see. We -- we have
received, with the bid, a bid bond?
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir.
,.., I 116

r~-
C
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
1 4 1 1 ~~ Yi I. I
JUDGE DENSON: And, then, upon entering into a
contract with them, at that time they'll provide us with a
performance bond.
MR. WALKER: Performance and payment bonds, uh-huh.
And, it looked in order to me; it was signed and said 5
percent. You might wish to have your legal counsel look at
it, or maybe Tom is used to dealing with those. It looked in
order to me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like the -- the bulk of
their work is with governmental entities; certainly, a lot of
it is.
MR. WALKER: I think they had a lot of school
districts.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the City of San Antonio,
U.T.S.A., Audie Murphy, Incarnate Word. Most of them were,
you know, one to ten million, looks like.
MR. WALKER: Anybody else want to look at this?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm a little concerned with
their losing money in good times. Maybe it's depreciation.
Well, Judge, do we,need to -- to accept the Stoddard bid and
authorize Mike to -- I mean --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Contact them and ask that
they present a contract to be signed.
JUDGE DENSON: Do you draft that contract?
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir.
~.., ~~ 117
~ ~
~".

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
I i I! I'Yi .. !
JUDGE DENSON: A.I.?
MR. WALKER: I draft it and give it to you to have
your legal counsel look at it. It's just ~ standard A.I.
contract with the modifications that we ask -- it's -- the
contract is actually referred to in bid documents, so it's no
surprise to anybody.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any reason we wouldn't
go with Stoddard? You want to reject --
MR. WALKER: No, I see no reason to -- at this
point, to go with -- not go with them. And, like I say,
unless they try to hedge on a bid; say, "Oops, I forgot
something," or try to negotiate some of it up. Then,
obviously, I'd have to come back to you, go over it again.
But I don't know, technically, whether you could do that.
Can you? You can't -- you can't fudge around on a -- on a
bid. You have to take it as it comes; is that correct?
JUDGE DENSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can always go down.
MR. WALKER: Okay. But if they came back and say,
"Oops, we dropped 5100,000 off the table," or something,
obviously, I have to bring it back to you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Change order time, or
renegotiate, or throw them all out and do it again. You can
negotiate, like -- what is it, 5 percent or something on some
-- some small amount.
,.,, ~ ~ 118
L ~
1
~--~
2
3
9
C .
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I I I I N Yi I. 1
JUDGE DENSON: We have a motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's nothing the -- you have
not checked any references on them or anything?
MR. WALKER: Not extensively, 'cause, like I say,
they just, you know, gave me this -- this current list. I do
know some of these architects they refer to, and I can
certainly check on them and see. But if you want to make it
subject to me verifying all the references -- and, obviously,
that they want a contract, and whatever legal review you need
to do. I'll be glad to bring it back to you, either at a
special meeting or the next meeting, or for final. Is that
what you do? You vote on the contract?
JUDGE DENSON: I'm just -- I don't have any
preference. I think everybody that's involved in this thing
wants to move along as soon as possible.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we accept
the bid from Stoddard -- what's the name?
JUDGE DENSON: Construction Company.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Stoddard Construction Company
in the amount of $2,399,000. I guess the "Deducts Only"
column, the base bid on that from Stoddard was $2,519,000.
MR. WALKER: May I ask one question, as soon as
it's appropriate? The -- I would ask you to consider not
taking the roofing off of it. I really think, for 511,000,
you're going to get a 20-year roof versus a 10-year roof, and
r ~ 119
L j


I
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
lilt Ip' I
I would suggest to you that that's probably well worth your
money. If you look at -- well, now, some of the people were
bidding as much as $18,000 difference.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two motions to do that? I
mean, accept the bid, and then we can -- we're going to go
over and discuss each of the alternates, yes or no. Do we do
that in a separate bid, or would you rather do it in one?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's do it in one, and just
specify which offering it is you want to accept.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. What do they -- so you
recommend we go with the 20-year roof, so we take that
$11,000; they want to go with the phypon, so you leave that
$160,000.
MR. WALKER: Right. I would take that and I would
take the -- I would not take the bridge. I think that the
bridge is worth it. I mean --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is that?
MR. WALKER: It's putting masonry on the bridge so
it looks a little bit better than just pipe rails, so it fits
into the architecture of the building a little bit better,
not quite as crude sticking out there on the street.
Because, you know, we had to rebuild the bridge because it
was rusted. And, so, this is just a matter of what does it
look like, and so we -- we had put brick with a precast cap
on it so that it -- you know, it looked like it --
r~ II 120
J 1
[ .!
r
C .
,~
1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
1 li 'Y {
COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the upstairs bridge?
MR. WALKER: North bridge. The one on Jefferson
street; the loading dock, it's called. And so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you're saying add that
$3,000 back in. $11,000 roof?
MR. WALKER: We --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're adding those things
back in?
MR. WALKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. WALKER: The columns, I would -- I would not
take that one. I didn't add that into that last column
anyway, 'cause that was a plus. And then, the panels. That
gets back to the question that we asked you before about
whether or not you think you would ever want to take those
panels and build a building with it. They're telling you
$8,500. Now, the reality of it is, it encloses 15,000 square
feet right now. Truthfully, if you got 80 percent of those
panels over there usable, to where -- I don't know, my math's
not that quick, but, you know, let's say it's a 10,000- or
12,000-square-foot building. Is it worth it to you to -- to
have that option? I mean, you may not want to use it for a
building; you may want to pave a parking lot with it. But, I
mean, it's $8,500 that -- and you're always in need of
storage space, so that's something to consider, if it will
121
l
i f ~.


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
i I I iq. I
buy a storage building or some sort of facility out at the Ag
Barn or one of your other properties.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The way the $8,500 is --
MR. WALKER: Yeah, if we -- if they carefully take
the panels off, put them on a flatbed truck and take them
within a 5-mile radius of the courthouse, they're going to
charge you $8,500 more to do that. So, $6,500 -- let's say
you got a 10,000-square-foot building out of it. That's, you
know, certainly worth something in the overall scheme of
things. I mean, even if you wanted to build a road out of
it. I lest about that, but I know Linda or somebody made
that suggestion one day; you could pave a parking lot if you
laid them down there, flat panels. You'd have to throw the
windows away, but they're not very -- they don't amount to
much that of that area. But, at least you would have it.
Obviously, you've got to pay somebody to pick them up, place
them where you want them, whatever. So, I mean, $8,500 is
not the end of the deal, but at least it -- somebody paid a
-- you know, the County paid a lot of money for that precast,
and so there is a question of whether you think you'd use it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My preference would be to save
the panels, at least for now, and I think we could probably
afford -- you know, if we want to change our minds, we can
probably go change our minds, throw them away, and get $8,500
back. I mean, I don't know why we would do that.
,,,, ~ I 12 2

~~
1
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1 1 ~ M I I
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes. Well, I think other
thing you can do, too, if you take them down and store them,
you can also advertise them for sale, bring more money
possibly for somebody that would design a building to use
them in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think they're worth
something that way.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can think of a building right
now.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Several of them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But I think it's good.
I agree that they ought -- they do have a value. Certainly,
you ought to be able to at least get that for them -- that
amount for them if it doesn't work out.
MR. WALKER: They'll probably wind up in that dump,
that fill that's out there beside the river.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me retract my last motion,
start over again. So, we're starting with -- I move we
accept the bid from Stoddard Construction Company, and accept
alternates 1, 3, and 5 -- or to include Alternates -- does
that make sense?
MR. WALKER: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't you word it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Include the opposite ones.
,,.~ ~ ~ 12 3
~. a
~ ~

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
it
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
~ c ~ ro i.
MR. WALKER: Yes, include the opposite ones.
Include Alternates, 2, the phypon, Alternate -- 4?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four?
MR. WALKER: Wait a minute.
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. WALKER: Okay. No, just Alternates 2 and 5.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we accept them
-- the bids from Stoddard Construction Company and accept
Alternates 2 and 5. That's subject to the architect's
verifying references and finding no problems. We need to be
-- can you give me a total amount? Do you have a calculator
over there?
MR. WALKER: Well, if I can find a place to plug it
in.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hand me the cord. I don't
want to you mess up and get shocked or anything. My finger
won't stick in one of those plugs like yours will.
MR. WALKER: This is not my calculator.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just use the thing.
MR. WALKER: $2,367,500.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you get that amount?
MS. ALFORD: No.
MR. WALKER: $2,367,500.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the bid amount for my
motion.
r II 124
~ ~ ~
r


1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
19
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1 1 7 i N' i I. I
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you sure you calculated
that correctly on the first try?
MR. WALKER: Ye of little faith.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Look at your tape and see. I
want to be sure.
MR. WALKER:
doing this with.
COMMISSIONER
to be willing to take
MR. WALKER:
COMMISSIONER
motion.
I think this is County property I'm
OEHLER: We always like those things
low numbers.
Yep.
OEHLER: Okay, I'll second your
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Judge is checking the
olf-fashioned way.
MR. WALKER: He's checking me out, isn't he?
JUDGE DENSON: I don't -- I'm making some kind of
mistake, 'cause I got 2,366,500.
MR. WALKER: Did you take 5160,000 away and then
add 58,500?
JUDGE DENSON: No, what I'm doing is taking the
52,394,00 over here.
MR. WALKER: Mm-hmm?
JUDGE DENSON: And adding back 85, 3, and 11.
MR. WALKER: Well, no, that won't give it to you.
That won't give it to you.
r,., 112 5
t J
~.

1
2
3
9
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
29
25
~ . w
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Maybe the thousand is for the
Alternate 6.
MR. WALKER: Uh-huh.
JUDGE DENSON: Maybe I'm -- I'm off.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you off a thousand?
JUDGE DENSON: Yeah.
MR. WALKER: We're not asking -- yeah, we're asking
that that thousand not be taken.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. Okay. So you're saying it's
$2,367,500?
MR. WALKER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: Okay. We've got a motion and
second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir.
JUDGE DENSON: Further questions? Comments? All
in favor?
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE DENSON: You got it.
MR. WALKER: Thank you.
JUDGE DENSON: Check these people out.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will be a good Christmas
for you, Mr. Walker.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're back here Thursday?
JUDGE DENSON: Back here Thursday at 9 o'clock.
MS. ALFORD: No, 1:30.
r ~~ 126
			'411 ®i !
" ~ t			
,.., 1		COMMISSIONER	LACKEY: 1:30.
2		MR. WALKER:	If, for any reason --
3		JUDGE DENSON:	Yeah, 1:30.
9		MR. WALKER:	If, for any reason, they back out,
5	there's	not enough time	for us to get back in that meeting,
6	right?		
7		JUDGE DENSON:	Right. You let me know if, for any
8	reason,	they might back	out.
9		(Discussion o	ff the record.)
10		MR. WALKER:	Thank you.
11		COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Bye, Mike. Thank you very
12	much.		
13		MR. WALKER:	Are y'all happy?
~~` 19		COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: I am. I'm excited. When do
15	they start?	
16		(Discussion o	ff the record.)
17		JUDGE DENSON:	Okay, we're in recess.
18		(Commissioner	s Court was adjourned at 2:50 p.m.)
19		-	- - - - - - - - -
20			
21			
22			
23			
29			
25			
r			
			127
i
.~~
r •*
~,"'`
t.. _

1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
t i i. vi ~ i.
C E R T I F I C A T E
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
Official Reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 23rd day of December,
1998.
,~
Kathy Ban
Certified Shorthand Reporter
128