~~•' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT Special Session Monday, January 25, 1999 9:00 a.m. Commissioners Courtroom Kerr County Courthouse Kerrville, Texas PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAM3, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 9 r"` ~` 1 1 I N D E X January 25, 1999 /^ 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Commissioners Comments Commissioner Baldwin Commissioner Williams Commissioner Letz Commissioner Griffin Judge Henneke 1.1 Pay Bills 1.2 Budget Amendments 1.3 Late Bills 1.4 Monthly Reports 2.1 Hunt Valley Ranch - preliminary plat approval 2.2 Revision of plat - Spicer Ranch III, Tract 165 2.3 Annual Bids - Road and Bridge materials 2.9 Safety concern - corner of Highway 27 and Hermann Sons Road (King Salvage) 2.5 Safety Audit Program - TX Assoc. of Counties 2.6 Change Trustee, Schreiner Road Fund Trust 2.7 Declare 5 items personal property as surplus 2.8 Purchase 9-drawer lockable file cabinet 2.12 Resolution declaring Center Point "Colonia" 2.9 Appoint Deputy Constable for Solid Waste 2.10 Annual Rabies Drive/Reduced fees 2.11 Possible office space - Tax Office substation & J.P. 4 2.19 Asbestos Abatement - Raba-Kintner Consulting 2.13 Flatrock Lake County Park design plan 2.20 Approve renovation contract - Stoddard Construction Company 2.19 School Board Recognition Month - January 2.15 Juvenile Probation Supervisor salary 2.16 Census 2000 (Passed on until next meeting) 2.17 Implement 3-year budget review process 2.18 Reallocation of reserved parking Reporter's Certificate Paae 4 12 19 17 18 21 22 29 29 29 32 33 39 91 56 61 62 64 105 132 134 142 157 168 171 173 178 187 197 r" 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 111 3 On Monday, January 25, 1999, at approximately 9:00 a.m., a Special Meeting of Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, and the following proceedings were had in open court: P R O C E E D I N G S JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning, everybody. We'll call this meeting of Commissioners Court, Kerr County, to order. Mr. Baldwin, I believe you are -- have the honors this morning. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I do. I invited an old friend of mine; he came all the way down from South Carolina to do the opening prayer this morning -- not true, but he did come from Hunt. I'd like to introduce, obviously, about half of Kerr County, for some reason, to my friend, Dr. Patrick Pritchard. That's -- I've asked Patrick to please rise and pray for this Court. (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Patrick. JUDGE HENNEKE: It's good to see so many people out this morning. We must be doing something right. COMMIS3IONER BALDWIN: That's not necessarily a good sign. COMMI33IONER WILLIAM3: Maybe they think we're going to do something wrong. JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, I'd like to invite I'I 1 4 r"` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 any citizens wishing to speak on items not listed on the agenda to please come forward and let us know what your concerns are. Is there anyone here in the audience who wishes to speak on an item which is not on the agenda? (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Seeing none, then we'll proceed to the Commissioners' comments. Commissioner Baldwin? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I do have two items to bring before the Court today, and they're both informational items, and I have two guests here to speak. And, there's -- both of them had a scheduling problem, so I took the liberty to put them in this segment of the Commissioners Court, which won't be a regular item for me. But, first is Mr. Tyler, Ken Tyler. I wanted him to talk with us and tell us about a fundraiser that they're doing for the Big Brothers and Big Sisters program that's across the street that we all support, and support as a government, also. Mr. Tyler? MR. TYLER: Well, do I appreciate that prayer this gentlemen said this morning, because it is a prayer about our young people. On August 2, 1999, the Dominion Country Club is going to host a celebrity golf tournament to help raise not only the necessary funds, but the awareness for our Big Brothers and Big Sisters program. As the Hill Country grows weekly, with families that move here with young people, there r--- 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 are a lot of families that have kids from separated homes, and there -- there are volunteers that are needed daily to help support this program. And -- and I am asking the Commissioners Court to get behind and help support and promote this golf tournament, because there are going to be athletes coming from all over the United States that are going to be out here to help promote this program and -- and support our Big Brothers and Big Sisters. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ken, the funds, do they go to a cover group of Big Brothers and Big Sisters, or do they come to Kerrville? MR. TYLER: The majority of the funds will come here to the Big Brothers & Big Sisters program here in Kerrville. But I have asked the Board of Directors for the Big Brothers program out of San Antonio to help with this .-~, program, because of how -- how nationwide the -- you know, the program is. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could you throw out a couple names, who's going to be there? MR. TYLER: Right now, Hall of Famer Kenny Houston. George Cumby from the Packers, Kenny Davis from the Bills, Ray Jacobs and Bobby Neff from the Dolphins, Doug Donnelly from the Cowboys, Mike Dial from the Raiders, who graduated from Tivy High School, and John Teltschik from Tivy High School will be here also. We have a good -- good idea of 6 ,~-~ ~~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 some of the other celebrities that are coming, but until I get their confirmation, you know, I would rather not say, because I've had to -- had before someone commit to come, and then at the last minute something happened where they couldn't come. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the date, one more time? MR. TYLER: It's going to be August 2, 1999, which is the first Monday in August. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the feel MR. TYLER: $1,500 entry fee per team. That's three golfers with one celebrity. COMMISSIONER HALDWIN: Those three guys on the other end of the table, I can tell you that. MR. TYLER: And I will throw out that Doug Donnelly, one of the former wide receivers for the Cowboys, his company is going to put up a million dollars for a hole-fn-one shot. That's lust some of the things that's going to be happening. It's going to be a great benefit program. I've been to some of these golf tournaments with the guys to benefit youth programs, and it is fabulous. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. MR. TYLER: Thank you very much. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for your tireless effort for our community. Secondly, last year this r ~~ ~-^ t"" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 c 7 Commissioners Court coined a coalition of other counties to oppose some of the E.P.A. rules that are coming down the pike that have a big-time effect on our county and all counties in the State of Texas. And, I've invited a friend of mine to come give us a first update on that program and what's going on. He's a member of the Board of Directors of Texas Association of Counties, President of the South Texas Commissioners Judge Association, and he's the County Judge from Guadalupe County, the Honorable Jim Sagebiel. JUDGE SAGEBIELL: Thank you, Buster. I have to tell you, Judge and Commissioners, it's sort of nice to be on this side of the bench once instead of up there. As Buster mentioned, Guadalupe County, unfortunately, was one of the first 38 counties that was put under this new stormwater legislation that's coming down from Washington that has been developed by E.P.A. Of course, my first question was, why us? I mean, there's all these other counties in Texas. How were we so lucky? Apparently, there's really not a whole lot of rhyme nor reason to it. What E.P.A. did look at was any county that had a census block with 50,000 people in it. Unfortunately, because we are right there next to San Antonio, we have one little census block that overlaps in there that has that 50,000 mark in it. You look at some of those original 38 counties, such as Taylor County and out at Midland, some of their engineers 8 ~- ~'"` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that have met with the County Engineers and Commissioners have said, you know, we would pray to have problems of stormwater runoff. They don't receive enough rain in the year to even be a problem. The first thing, of course, we have to start looking at is where do we go from here? And what we found, very surprisingly, is other states have not yet recognized -- or many of them have not recognized the seriousness of the problem. The people on the federal level, particularly National Association of Counties, say Texas is the leader. We are way out ahead of all the other states in the nation to realize what impact this could have on the counties, and particularly rural counties. I was glad to see that Kerr County has joined. I think now there are 107 members, at last count. There may actually be a few more that are currently involved. What E.P.A. really has done, the bureaucrats -- and I know we don't always like that term, but that's exactly what it is. The bureaucrats have taken the E.P.A. Clean Water legislation passed by Congress, and they've just blown it all, out of proportion. Of course, all of us -- our very first thoughts were, okay, how do we get out from under this? Let's 3ust kill this part of the legislation and have this removed. I'll tell you now, after a lot of talking and visiting, that's not going to happen. So, now we're looking G 9 r^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 at how do we address this, have it modified, so that it doesn't take a county like Kerr or Guadalupe or any of the others and have devastating impact on our budget, on our whole operating scheme? Right now, probably the best thing that any of us can do, and we've already begun doing it, is to reach our Congressman, whether it's Senator or Representative, and let them know what has happened; that what they passed as a Clean Water legislation is now affecting the bar ditches in Kerr County. I'll keep it real simple, and I brought you the latest notebook, which I think will answer most of your questions and the information that you need. But, basically, they have said those bar ditches out in Kerr County are going to be seen basically as the same drainage ditches you have in downtown Houston, and you will treat them the same way. Of course, for us, that's just totally illogical. They are not the same. In fact, they are an excellent filtration system as far as removing a lot of the runoff and debris that you have. And E.P.A. even, fn its own reports, admits that. Yet they want to us handle it in a totally different manner. The big problem, of course, for most of us in counties our size is that this is going to require almost an entire new County department. Guadalupe County did finally put on an engineer, but that will not be enough. We will need additional staff people, because, one, the law requires not -- - - - -----r- ------ 10 ~'` ,^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 only that you, the County, be licensed -- every time you go out to work on a road or bar ditch, if it's more than one acre, then you have to qo through all this permitting process to be able to stay out there and do your work. Of course, some of the smart Commissioners said, "Fine, I'll lust do an acre one day, an acre the next day." It doesn't work that way. It is, of course, the entire project, so it doesn't matter how much work you do in one day. The other is the cost. Just calculating it -- and this is on what's considered very conservative figures -- at $5 per head, per capita in a county, and right now Guadalupe County's probably right at 80,000, so you can figure, at $5 a head, what we're talking about just to institute this for the first year. And then they say the cost continues to develop. One of the ways in which it will be attacked is that it is a violation of the Tenth Amendment of the United States Constitution. It is passing down unfunded mandates to the counties, going around the power of the states, and this has already been found to be an unconstitutional mandate from Congress. 30, that is one -- one way in which the legal team that is working with us is looking at this. The other is that it's asking Texas counties to do things that we do not have the power to do in Texas. As I said, one, we, as counties, would be regulated. But then we are also to be the regulator. Any subdivisions, ___r 11 r 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 anything that's built in the County outside of the city limits, we would have to regulate and monitor how they handle their runoff and make sure it complies to all of the E.P.A. rules and regulations. So, you can see what an impact this could have, again, on particularly midsize counties, such as Kerr and Guadalupe, Comal, Hayes, and many others, and that's why so many others have been involved in it. I'll dust close and then open it up for any questions. I have to say that they did create two groups to work -- to try to solve this problem. One is elected officials, and I, unfortunately, was sitting in the wrong place and got chosen to be in that particular group. The other is, fortunatley, a number of our counties, and particularly Bexar County, up in Dallas and Tarrant and others, do have some very good staffs already on board. So, we did create a technical staff, and that group fs working towards what can be done and what can be attacked on the technical side, engineering side. And, so, putting all this together, then, we will use this, as I started out with you, to go back to Congress, particularly the Texas delegation, and say, Look, here is what is actually occurring. This is what you meant to happen under the Clean Water Act. We have, then, other states who said -- particularly the southern delegation, who say they will loin in with Texas under the National Association of Counties to work with us toy 11. 1 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 try to correct this problem. Like I say, nationally, I lust don't think everybody is really caught up to it, what the impact can be. And I appreciate Commissioner Baldwin asking someone to come from the committees to present this to you. I really thought they were going to send one of the technical staff people, because I know you need to know, particularly with Baldwin on the Court, and come down and explain where we are at this time. So, if you have any questions or comments, I'll certainly be glad to take those back or try to address them. JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you for coming, Judge, and since ft's not a posted agenda item, we cannot continue this. I do appreciate you, and if we need to ask you to come back at a later time, we will. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Jim. JUDGE SAGEBIELL: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have a good trip. JUDGE SAGEBIELL: Thank you. Appreciate it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, that's all I had. Used up half the day. JUDGE HENNEKE: Bill? COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Thank you, Judge. I lust want to take this opportunity to express my thanks and appreciation for -- to the members of the Court, the County Treasurer, Barbara Nemec, and members of the staff for your 13 r"~ _. _~_ 1 Z 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 condolences and the beautiful array of plants you sent in memory of my wife's mother, who passed away a couple weeks ago. I really do appreciate that, and all the responses that we've gotten from the community, as well. A couple items that have come to mind, I'd like to also recognize and express some appreciation, particularly recognize the achievements of Austin Maxwell and Bradley Silver from Center Point, and Christopher Stearns, who were nominated for admission to United States Military Academy, and in Mr. Stearns' case, to the United States Merchant Marine Academy. Mighty fine achievement, and these young people axe representative of what we turn out here in Kerr County, and they should be applauded for their achievements today. Also, I want to make special note of this petition that's being circulated around Kerr County with regard to saving the V.A., Kerrville Veterans Administration Center. If you have an opportunity to come across that petition, I urge you to give it consideration, because it's just another way in which people are working to save one of our facilities that's vital to the veterans of this area. And, to those in Center Point who were a part of a very successful Hill Country Jr. Livestock Show, I say congratulations to at least 113 out of the contingent from Center Point that had winning entries. Thank you, Judge. II 1 19 r^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 la 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE NENNEKE: Okay. Jonathan? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two items. First is piggyback with what Bill mentioned about the veterans. I met with General Bacon yesterday, who's chairman of the Hill Country Veteran's Council, which is kind of a group that's been formed to kind of coordinate the veterans situation at the V.A. hospital. And, I lust want to announce they are having a meeting today at 3 o'clock, I believe, at the V.F.W. Hall. The -- they are expecting a crowd large enough -- I know that Sheriff Kaiser told General Bacon -- said if they needed traffic control for it -- they're expecting several hundred, possibly up to 300, 400, 500 people there today. This has really taken off, largely due to the veterans and General Bacon. Bennie Hyde, I know, has been very involved with it, Jim Richey. They have -- they've got -- generals know a lot of people, and they certainly know how to use their networks. They have Jud Ashmore, he's been involved with it. I don't know if it's through Jud or not, but I know they -- they do have the Texas State News Network will be there there today, and their film usually ends up on W.O.A.I. television station. So, there's a lot of big press coming around this. General Bacon has received letters from as far away as Alaska for support of this, and it is turning into as much of an overall problem in the whole Veterans Administration, i^ 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 nationwide, and the lack of services or the cutback in services. So, it's really taken off. It's a -- I think it's -- I brought it up for everyone's awareness of this. Unfortunately, I think the the Court has a workshop, so we can't attend that 3 o'clock meeting today. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you say 3 o'clock, where? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think at V.F.W. -- AUDIENCE: American Legion. COMMISSIONER LETZ: American Legion, sorry. And, another thing, I think we owe a real big thanks to Kerrville Chamber of Commerce, specifically Sherry Cunningham. She has done a tremendous iob of working with this. I think she went through a case of paper last Friday on this petition. They're being sent off to -- I mean, even in San Antonio, they asked for, like, 350 copies of the petition down in San Antonio. So, a lot of it's coming through the efforts of her being able to do the background work and paperwork for them. The other thing I wanted to bring up is that over the -- or last late last week they had the Hill Country Junior Livestock County and District Show. I wanted to thank -- we have -- several of our County employees really put in a lot of hours out there and made for a really good show and success, I think, to the County. And, Laurinda Boyd and Glenn Holekamp, Mike and Brian, our Maintenance Department, 16 r-. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 they were both out there I don't know how many hours. And Eddie Holland and Janie Squires, as well. They all did a great iob. I know there's a lot of other volunteers. I think one of the neat things about that show is, when you look at the -- you know, what's going on, I spend most of ~. my time in the hog area, for better or worse. You have a tremendous number of kids that, in addition to showing their animals, volunteer their time. Most of the -- I don't know if you people are familiar with hog sales, but hogs fight, so you have these people running around with hog boards to separate them all the time, and those are all -- mostly, I'll say, seniors in the senior agricultural programs in our local high schools. I don't know. A lot of them came from Ingram and Center Point and Kerrville high schools, and it's really neat to see these kids that are out there showing their their animals. Beyond that, they're going out there and volunteering their time in addition to everything else they're doing, so I lust want to -- hats off to that group. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Agricultural people. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And on that area, one other thing. While I was out there, I did -- over, I guess, Thuzsday and Friday, some problems came to mind. And after that, I talked to Ernie Kaiser, who's chief -- President of the Livestock Association, and at their next Executive Board Meeting, Bill Williams and I will be meeting with the Stock 17 ~. /"t 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 Show Association to work on some long-term planning and facility upgrades and things of that nature. We can come back to the Court with a recommendation of what to do with that facility and areas that we do have some problems right now. That's it. JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. COMMI33IONER GRIFFIN: Let me add my congratulations on the show. I've heard all kind of good comments. Unfortunatley, three of us here had to miss most of all the activities because we were over in Austin for -- learning how to be what we're supposed to be, Judges and Commissioners. But it was a great program, obviously, and I just second all of the comments that we've gotten. Let me also add that on the Y2K issue, I think we're starting to see now some of the major players in the Y2K solution coming forward, indicating that things may not be quite as bad as some of the media have -- have made it out to be in the past, in that the National Power Grid Association, whatever that is, is saying that things are looking good for compliance well before the end of the year. There'll probably be some glitches, but don't worry about major power outages; we'll probably have more power outages from hurricanes and tornadoes than we will from Y2K, that sort of accounts for their holding. But, anyway, things are starting to focus down toward the end of the year. I think by r"` 18 we'll probably have a pretty good r`` 1 midyear, by June or so, idea of where we stand, both nationally and internationally. 2 Also, for our own local efforts, I've talked with 3 4 several department heads and -- and elected officials who 5 have -- are making great strides in making sure that our 6 systems are certified compliant. We still have work to do on 7 most of our PC's, to make sure that all of our personal are squared away. But, I'll be g computers in the County 9 getting together with -- with most of the department heads 10 and elected officials next week or this week to set up our 11 next meeting where we'll sort of go through the details of 12 exactly what we'll do from here until we're satisfied that 13 we're compliant. So -- and, of course, all those meetings r`' ublic for anyone who would like to -- 14 will be open to the p ' 15 that would like to sit in on that. That's it. JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thanks. I have a few items. 16 1? First of all, people have asked where the hat is. For those of you who don't know, this hat was given to me by my sons 18 and my two brothers and my sisters the day I was sworn in, 19 20 and people said, "Well, where's the Judge's hat7" Well, 21 here's the Judge's hat. It was worn very proudly Saturday 22 out at the auction, the stock show. On the stock show, the Jr. Livestock Show, I want to say 23 24 it's a tremendous effort on the part of the community to 2g support our young people. It's my understanding that our r1, 19 ~"` 1 Hill Country Jr. Livestock Show auction is the fifth largest Z in the state, which is an incredible accomplishment, given 3 the demographics that we're competing against. I want to 4 thank Commissioner Letz and Commissioner Baldwin for 5 representing the County out there, as well as former 6 Commissioner Oehler and former County Judge, Bob Denson, 7 while Larry and Bill and I were in Austin at a seminar for g newly-elected County Commissioners and County Judges. I'll 9 remind you all that there's nothing so dangerous as a newly- 10 elected Commissioner or Judge who lust attended his first 11 seminar on how we're to do what we're doing. All of you are 12 forewarned. 13 I will also mention here in open court that I have _ 14 received the resignation of Mark Alan Shaw as Constable or 15 Precinct 3 effective midnight on January 31st, 1999. The 16 Court will be addressing the issue of his successor at such 17 time as his resignation is effective next week. lg I'll also mention that the Kerrville Daily Times has 19 requested that they be provided with a -- basically, a copy 2p of the book for the Commissioners Court. We'll start doing 21 it with the next -- next meeting. That, obviously, will not 22 include anything that's confidential or covered under 23 Executive Session. We'll also make one available for the 24 Mountain Sun. We'll put two or three copies on the back 25 table for the public, which are to be used in the room and __.__ -- -- ~' 20 '"` 1 not taken with you. This is something that I think is 2 necessary in order to open up more communication and make 3 your County government more available to you all. 30, I'm q just alerting everyone to that. 5 The other thing I'd bring out is we have a letter from 6 the Texas County and District Retirement System, offering to 7 send officials of that organization here to conduct g presentations or seminars to our County employees on the 9 retirement system. If any of the department heads or elected 10 officials think that this would be useful, please get in it touch with me and we'll arrange to have someone from the 12 Texas County and District Retirement System come in and speak 13 to us. So, if anyone thinks that would be something their . _ 14 employees would appreciate, ox the County employees genera y 15 would appreciate, please let me know and we'll arrange for 16 that. That is something they do on a free basis, since we do 1~ participate in the County and District Retirement System. 18 Those are all the comments I have. 19 COMMI3SIONER LET2: Judge, I have a question. I 20 don't know if this is the time. If not, we can talk about it 21 later. Can you explain the letter from Kerrville Daily 22 Times? I'm confused. Copies have always been on file in the 23 County Clerk's office. I don't think we should be making 29 copies at our expense for the papers. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, that's something they've r"` i 21 /`~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 requested. And, like you say, it is available. It's not an action item, we can't discuss it, but it's something we can take up -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other comment about this, Judge. That's probably -- not probably; it is consistent with what the City does for the media. For the media, only. JUDGE HENNEKE: City and School Board both provide copies of their information packets to the papers, so -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've always done that, Judge. JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. With that in mind, let's proceed to the agenda. Item No. 1, consider the preliminary plat of Hunt Valley Ranch, Precinct 9. Oh, I'm sorry. Thank you, guys. Approval agenda. Pay bills, budget amendments. Tommy? MR. TOMLINSON: Anybody have any comments on the bills? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll just -- I'm not believing what I'm seeing here on Page 19, the Indigent Health Care bill. I'm really scared to read out the number; I'm afraid it's a mistake. $999? MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And 95 cents. COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: And 45 cents? I mean, this 22 ~` ~"~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 is a -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: That's not a common mistake, is it2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's very, very, very low. MR. TOMLINSON: Just a good month. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: it's a great month. Can we qo back to that other part so I can commend the Indigent Health Care? That was the only question I had -- not only that, but that was the only comment I had on the entire bills. Great bunch. JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any comments or questions on the bills? COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: I move we pay the bills. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been moved and seconded that we pay the bills. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes to pay bills. Budget amendments? MR. TOMLIN3ON: I gave you three more that's on the -- on the table there, copies of -- I think it's 3, 4, and 5 that you don't have in your packet. So, starting with the first one, No. 1 is for -- this is contractual obligation M 23 /"~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 fund. That's an interest-seeking fund. Apparently, our paying agent, which is Nor west Bank, has increased the fees for their services for paying the interest and principal on these obligations. So, what we've done, we've budgeted $200 for this obligation on Fund 58. Apparently, for the year, we'll need another $550 in that line item. So, what I'm recommending is that we -- we take the $550 -- additional $550 from Surplus Funds in that fund. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Is this something that's part of our contract with Norwest, that they be able to raise the fees or -- MR. TOMLINSON: I can't answer that one. It's not uncommon for -- for Trust Departments in financial institutions to raise fees. JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we're all aware of that. MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, no -- with no -- with no notification. So -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, let's take a look at what their ability to do that is. MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. JUDGE HENNEKE: Before agreeing with it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, you said Fund 58, but you meant 59? MR. TOMLINSON: That's right, I'm sorry. ,~`~ 24 i^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fund 59. And the surplus in Fund 59 there is a reserve fund, in and of itself? MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, there is. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, we're going to hold that? I'm sorry? COMMISSIONER LETZ: My memory tells me that we received a memo from you regarding NationsBank in a similar situation. I believe it was Schreiner Road Trust. MR. TOMLINSON: Right. That's on the -- that's separate on the agenda. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it7 Another one? Well anyway, how many of these -- i know we have our main depository contracts -- do these come under those main depository -- are these all, like, sub-agreements that we have with banks? MR. TOMLINSON: This obligation -- I think this fs a '99. I think Norwest -- or maybe it was First National at that time; I think it was -- purchased those obligations. And, they were -- the obligations were sent out for bid through our financial adviser, and they were high bidder. And, consequently, they became the paying agent as well, just like -- as if the -- as if it were a bond. COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, I understand. My recollection -- I think we had one of these last year, similar situation, probably a different one. But I think 25 ,~ ~'"` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we're lust kind of at the mercy of the institution. MR. TOMLIN3ON: We have this obligation, plus the '94 fail bond. COMMI3SIONER LETZ: Right. MR. TOMLINSON: That we have a paying agent for also. That's different from this one. COMMI33IONER LETZ: Right. So moved. COMMI33IONER GRIFFIN: Second. COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: Are you saying to hold it and check up on the -- JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we need to go ahead and pay it, but I'd like to know what the basis is for that unilateral action. It's been moved by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Griffin to approve the amendment. All in favor? (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Amendment's approved. MR. TOMLIN3ON: Okay. Number 2 is for the -- for the same thing; it's the same purpose. So, this lust happens to be for -- for the Surplus Fund of -- surplus in the Fund 62, which is the '99 sail bond. COMMI33IONER LETZ: We don't have a lot of control over this, because they purchased the -- I mean, the 26 ~"~ ~^'~ t" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 instrument. MR. TOMLINSON: When the financial -- when the Court approved the bond, through the financial advisers, we appointed the paying agent. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So moved. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been moved by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve the amendment. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. No. 3 is for bonds for the County Judge and Commissioners Court. This is a budget oversight, apparently, and it's to increase the budget line item in the County Judge's budget for $177.50, and $355 in the Commissioners Court budget to pay their public officials' bond. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Out of Contingency? MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- I left that blank. That's for your discretion as to what -- what you want to do. That's -- COMMIS3IONER LETZ: I think Contingency's the appropriate place. µ 27 ,r'r n 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we take funds out of Contingency to pay for this -- these bonds and insurance. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Amendment's passed. MR. TOMLINSON: No. 9 is for the County Treasurer's office. This also is -- is a budget -- I mean a bond purchase item. I think, in the past, the Treasurer had purchased a -- was it a one-year bond? MS. NEMEC: Yes. MR. TOMLIN3ON: One-year bond. And, this year they renewed it for four years, and there was an additional $166.25, so she's recommending that we take it -- $100 from Miscellaneous and $66.25 from Conferences. COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget Request No. 9. All in favor, raise your right hand. 28 ~^, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 la 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. No. 57 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 5 is for the County Court. It's a transfer of $100 from Office Supplies to Statement of Facts line item. It's a new line item in this court. Originally, we had not budgeted anything for Statements of Facts in this Court and for the County Court, so we do have a bill for that to pay from Sheri Thompson, Attorney at Law. So, that's my recommendation, that we transfer from Office Supplies. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This could possibly be a monthly item? MR. TOMLINSON: No, I don't think so. I think this is an unusual -- JUDGE HENNEKE: This relates to an appeal filed by one of the patients -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. JUDGE HENNEKE: -- objecting to her commitment out at the State Hospital. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. JUDGE NENNEKE: Because it required -- the Judge is required to prepare and file a Statement of Facts in connection with any appeal. So -- r`` 29 ~• ~" 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: So moved. COMMISSIONER LET2: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that we approve Budget Amendment No. 5. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. ~, (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. Thank you. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any late bills? MR. TOMLINSON: No. JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Do we have a motion to approve monthly reports? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So move. Y'all going to let me do one? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve monthly reports. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. Now we'll proceed to the regular agenda. I apologize for getting ahead of myself. First item on the agenda is consider the pzeliminary 30 .~'~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 plat of Hunt Valley Ranch, Precinct 4. Mr. Griffin? COMMI33IONER GRIFFIN: Yes. And the County Engineer will speak to this. There is a slight change on the plat that you may have, which is indicated on this corrected plat that has the entrance moved. Everything else remains the same. But, I might mention that I think the procedure that was followed here is almost a perfect model for how you look at a subdivision when you're in the conceptual phase going to a preliminary plat, and that is we got everybody together at the -- on the site, where you can see the ground. We had TexDOT there and, of course, County Engineer was there and I was there, the landowners were there, and we could all look at it at one time and say, "What are we out of balance here on?" And one thing was site line for the entrance onto the highway. 30, it was very instructional for me. I don't know whether they're all done this way or not, but this one was perfect, because everybody agreed, Here's what we're going do, and we charged off. Everybody has done their job, and I think everybody concerned ought to be commended. But Franklin can speak to it. It's -- this is the preliminary plat. It's -- as I say, you have copies. But this one shows the corrected entrance on the road. JUDGE HENNEKE: Franklin? MR. JOHN3TON: Basically, Larry said it all. It falls under the -- the road is an unpaved country lane, which ~., - -- _._ 31 r .~^. r-~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 it falls under that criteria. The lots are 10 acres or larger, and it cannot be subdivided unless the road is upgraded per our rules. I recommend approval of the preliminary plat. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will it have a public water -- MR. JOHNSTON: I don't know whether Lee's here or not. He may have comments. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Frank, are they planning a central water system? I saw a well tract. MR. JOHNSTON: I don't know if the owner's here or not. I think the plat on the wells -- M3. KEY: We are working on a central water system. JUDGE HENNEKE: Becky, would you stand up, let us know who you are? MS. KEY: I'm Hecky Key with Hunt Valley Ranch, and we are working on a central water system. Bill Vlasek has been up there. There was an existing well on the property, which he tested, and it -- it proved to be a good well, so he's getting all the paperwork in order for that. And, so, that's something we're working on. We weren't sure whether we were going to be able to provide water or not, but hopefully we will. MR. JOHNSTON: With this number of lots, it doesn't have -- we don't have to have the T.N.R.C.C. approval. It's a private system. 32 ~"'~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Private system, good. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll make the motion that we approve. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed? (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. Next item is 2.2, consider the revision of plat for Tract No. 165 of Spicer Ranch III. Commissioner Baldwin, I believe that's you. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I'll defer to the County Engineer, please. MR. JOHNSTON: This is a plat that falls under -- let me be sure I get the number right -- Court Order 25985, called Revision of Plat. They're dividing an existing platted lot of 10.18 acres into two lots of 6.86, and 3.27. This Court order was passed last year sometime, and part of the requirement was that we get the County Attorney to review it, make sure it falls under that criteria, which we have done. I think he has a note in your packet. And, so, I would recommend approval based on the -- on that revision of plat. 33 /^ r"~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On the recommendation of the County Engineer, I move to approve. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, to approve the revision of plat for Tract No. 165 of Spicer Ranch III. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. MR. JOHNSTON: This is a one-time thing; it doesn't have a preliminary and a final. And she has the mylar that's ready to sign. JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll move on to Item 2.3, advertisement for annual bids on paving aggregate, asphalt emulsions, base material, corrugated metal pipe, and equipment with operator by the hour. Franklin? MR. JOHNSTON: Every year in January, we advertise for the annual bids you lust mentioned: gravel, oil, base material, culverts, and equipment. Current bids are good through March 15th of this year. You have a copy of the advertisement we propose to run in the paper. We'd ask for your approval of that. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any comments? 34 /`* ~"~ 1^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I move that we approve. COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve the advertisement for bids for annual materials. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. Item 2.9, consider and discuss safety concern at the corner of Highway 27 and Hermann Sons Road. Mr. Letz. COMMIS3IONER LETZ: What this situation is, it's a road in the eastern part of Kexr County. It's a salvage yard that's at the corner of Hermann Sons Road and Highway 27. We've had a lot of complaints over the years and we've, you know, talked to them on occasion. I think prior to that, Commissioner Holekamp has talked to them some. The problem is that along Hermann Sons Road, the debris from the salvage yard gets onto Hermann Sons Road, and frequently trucks are loaded there. We put up some no parking signs this past fall. But, I drove by there the other day after receiving a call from a resident out on Hermann Sons Road, and there is debris right on the shoulder of the road, and it's -- it's a safety problem. They're infringing on the County 35 .~ ,~'` ~-^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 right-of-way, and i think we need to, you know, go beyond -- we have to do something in there. The problem that we're faced with is that -- and I've put in, I think, everyone's packet -- there's a Kerr County Outdoor Business Code which covers these situations, of regulations regarding junkyards, demolition yards, things of that nature. And, because of the -- the date of this being passed and the date of that business, it's grandfathered, so they do not fall under the rules of our otherwise County policy and regulations. So -- and also I think -- I've talked with Road and Bridge about it. One of the concerns we have also is, one, I believe that road was approved by prescription of right-of-way, so there's not a deeded, definite right-of-way. My understanding, in talking with Road and Bridge, is that in this situation, the right-of-way is deemed to be, by the State, 40 feet. And I might ask Leonard, is that -- I know Eric Ashley was going to go out there and research it. Is that what you found to be the case? MR. ODOM: Well, as of Friday -- I didn't talk to Eric this morning, but as of Friday, he was still looking into it to make sure that there's some kind of documentation that establishes at least a corner at that facility, and that once he does that, we will survey that point, and then, certainly, by the direction of the Court, put something up. _ _~ 36 r'"` l y 3 q 5 It could be a fence, it could be guardposts with cable. I -- you know, I don't know what the Court would want. If you put a fence up, I'm sure it's going to be messed up. I )ust -- you know, as far as right-of-way, 40 foot has been what we've - in Court, we've been contesting that one in Court, 40 - 6 ~ foot. So, that's the minimum. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Minimum. Is there anyone here g from King Surplus that wants to address this? I sent them a 9 10 11 letter and gave them the opportunity. MR. ODOM: It's so narrow, there is just absolutely no way that -- you know, once they encroach to the road, it's 12 -- it's totally health-safety-welfare of the public. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a very dangerous ~'^ _ 14 15 all -- I mean, this is a very busy situation. For example, road, during the summer months especially. We have several 16 camps out there, and that area is really getting a lot of 17 18 lg development, so it's -- and it's a very dangerous intersection, even if it was, you know, 60 foot wide, I'd say, 'cause it's just -- you have Little League fields right 20 across the road, you have another Y that takes off Highway 21 22 27. 30, it's just a concern. COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: When you talk about building 23 24 -- I missed something here. Talking about building fences or abatements and those kind of things, are we talking about us 25 building them? /"'• 37 ~^~ 1 Z 3 4 5 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In my mind, yes. COMMIS3IONER Bp,LDWIN: Well, I'm a little -- I don't know if i agree with that or not. Why would we spend taxpayers' money to keep somebody off of our property? WhY can't we use the law to force those people to stay off of our property? I mean, I'm lust -- that's just a simple question 7 8 9 10 11 12 from a simple mind. COMMISSIONER LETZ: The problem has been as to what to do. I mean, we have -- you know, my predecessors sent letters; I've sent, I think, one letter out to them, asked them to keep it up. We put no parking signs up. We're not getting anywhere. Maybe there's some criminal action that 13 r` _ 14 15 will -- that we could pursue, or civil action. But, to me, ~ oin to be more a permanent solution and it s probably g 9 probably cheaper for us to put up a guardrail, which we do in 16 other hazardous areas along County roads. I think a fence, 17 I probably would agree, would probably get messed up. I 18 19 ZO 21 22 think a guardrail, like we do on a steep embankment area, something that -- you know, that's going to hopefully define where their property is, keep their junk inside there. Plus if they start destroying that, to me, they're destroying County property, and at that point there is a criminal 23 penalty. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Would we have to clean up 25 the area before we could put the guardrail in7 /".. _. __ _, r_ -- __ ~_' i 38 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 Z1 2i 2: 2~ 2! COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we could probably do that with a letter pretty quick. MR. ODOM: To answer Commissioner Baldwin's question, first of all, we have to delineate what is actually ours, and that's what we're going to do. And then, at that point, if they destroy County property or -- and encroach with material for the health, safety, welfare of the people, then the Sheriff's Department's got something to go by. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why it's on the agenda. MR. ODOM: That's what we're trying to do now, is establish what points are really there. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And since it's a matter of hiring an engineer do some surveying and sort of an expenditure of funds that's not budgeted, that's why it's on the agenda. Got to get the Court's, you know, direction to Road and Bridge as to what to do. I mean, I -- you know, I think I'm of the opinion that we should -- once we define the right-of-way, we should put a guardrail up at the County's expense. And, for that, I guess it would come out of -- I don't know what that cost is going to be, but it would have to come either out -- MR. ODOM: Come out of Contingencies. I have a contract for fence. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lots of contract people at Road n and Bridge. a 39 r`` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you know what's amazing? I see former Commissioner Holekamp in the back of the room. Prior to him being on the Commissioners Court, we dealt with that exact same issue with that exact same business. Exact same situation. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they're grandfathered. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Here we are still doing nothing. Amazing. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're getting ready to do something. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My question would be, if we establish the right-of-way by your survey and then qo in and somebody cleans it out, we put up only a guardrail, what's to prevent this guy from putting his junk back to the guardrail and over it again? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think what it -- it won't prevent it, necessarily, but it will define what the County feels the right-of-way is. And, if they put -- I think then we have -- you know, we can go and say, "Look, you are encroaching on the right-of-way." If they're destroying County property or guardrail, I think there is, you know, maybe some -- hopefully, some criminal relief at that point that we could force them, maybe through fines oz something else. The other option is, I guess -- I don't know the legal part of figuring out a way to fine them for doing what ___ ____~_ _ -- __ __--,,--r__ 40 1^ ~"'` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 they're doing right now. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How high a barrier are we talking about? MR. ODOM: Guardposts, probably around 30 to 36 inches high. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that's with the metal strip kind of thing? MR. ODOM: Metal strip, yes. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. MR. ODOM: if you have a fence, you're probably up to 6 foot, and if you put chain-link on it, you know that that's going to encroach and it's going to be unsightly, but you might -- you know, it is a salvage yard, so I've thought about that, all pipe. But, that's at the discretion of the Court, whichever way you wish to go. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think guardrail link is a good way to draw a line in the sand and say, you know, if you put it on this side, you've got a problem. Keep on it your side. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that, once we define what the right-of-way is, presumably 90 feet, that we direct Road and Bridge to put up a guardrail along that street at King Salvage. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that, with one question. What does that do to the ingress-egress of his 91 '~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 r^ 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 /'` business? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can work with them to the degree of having, certainly, access into his property. I mean, one or two entrances -- MR. ODOM: It would have to be something -- excuse me. it would have to be something there to put the cable -- to delineate that opening. I cannot deny him that ingress- egress to the property. However, should he wish to get in there, then there would be a cable or something that he could take loose and drive right in there, I guess. So -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good, I still second it. JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion's been made by Commissioner Letz and seconded by Commissioner Baldwin to -- after we have the right-of-way delineated, to put up a guardrail. Any further discussion? All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. Next agenda item is consider and discuss voluntary participation in the Safety Audit Program with Texas Association of Counties. Mr. Galindo? MR. GALINDO: Thank you. JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. MR. GALINDO: Morning. 92 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: What do you need? MR. GALINDO: I need to give a copy of this to y'all so y'all know what I'm talking about. Morning. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Do you have one for her? MR. GALINDO: That's the lady I was looking for. Thank you, Judge, for the opportunity to address the Court this morning. Last January 14th, a letter was sent to Commissioners Court indicating that Kerr County is eligible to participate in this program that we have within the Association of Counties. The purpose of this program is to invite the counties to develop an Accident Prevention Plan recognized by the Texas Workers Compensation Commission, including the seven elements recognized by the Texas Workers Compensation Commission. The purpose of this plan is to stimulate the counties to increase safety awareness among their employees. This is totally voluntarily by the County. if you decide not to participate, there will be no penalties assigned to the County. However, if you will decide to participate, there is a benefit of $9,273 that will be awarded to Kerr County. COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: I like what you're saying so far. MR. GALINDO: I figured you would. The plan, itself, is -- is very simple, yet it -- it will require ~, 43 i"~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 cooperation from everybody from within the County, not dust Commissioners Court or the County Judge's office. There's seven elements that we'd ask the County to implement. Element No. 1 is management. Linder Element No. 1, we ask you to adopt a resolution indicating that, yes, you're willing to participate within the program and to send -- a copy to be sent to the Association of Counties so we can proceed with the -- with the other elements under management. We'd also ask you to adopt an accountability policy, which basically indicates that everybody within Kerr County has a responsibility for safety in the workplace, whether you're an elected official, an appointed official, a supervisor, or an hourly employee. Okay? Element No. 2 is analysis. We'd ask the County to adopt a resolution -- well, not a resolution, but to adopt a policy or procedure as to how you will go about analyzing your losses on a regular basis, okay? Obviously, somebody within the County -- and, if I'm not wrong, it will be the County Treasurer's office who oversees that operation, who maintains all the information regarding losses to Workers Compensation. Okay? Obviously, we would like that department to cooperate with Commissioners Court to keep you informed about what's going on within the County, what type of trends are developing out there before they become a burden to the County, and so forth. 30, we ask you to adopt a procedure as __ __ __ _..r_ ---- -r- "-a --~- J 44 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2t 2] 2: 2: 2 2' r~ to how you're going to go about doing that. Element No. 3 is recordkeeping. There's many things that we do within the County right now for safety. A lot of times we don't see it that way, but, for instance, maintenance of the Road and Bridge equipment, inspections on our 7ai1 facilities, inspections on our building facilities throughout the County. All of that, in our view, is part of the safety program, because it's -- you're doing it in an effort to identify the problems, but also to reduce the liability to the County on different areas. Okay? So, we ask you to implement a procedure as to what records will be maintained, you know, by which departments and for what purpose and so forth. Safety and health education and training. We ask the County to adopt a procedure to develop in-house safety training within the County. The Association of Counties can be helpful on this aspect. We can come down and do some training for you, but we would like the County to do some safety on their own, not 3ust when we're coming in and do the safety for the County. So, we ask you to develop a safety program based on your needs. If we have some issues on law enforcement, we ask that law enforcement participate on that aspect. If we have some issues on Road and Bridge, we ask Road and Bridge to give us an idea of what type of training can we bring to the County to increase the awareness and so 45 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 forth. Tf clerical/administrative is a problem, we'd also ask them to give us some feedback as to what -- what are the needs for County. No. 5, audit and inspection. Again, we ask you to tell us what type of inspections you will conduct out there. What are you intending to do with it? How often do you do these inspections? Who does the inspections and what type of recordkeeping do you maintain for this purpose? Accident investigation -- obviously, I don't care how safe you are in the workplace, you're going to have an accident. What we want the County to do is to develop a procedure as to how you're going to go about investigating the accidents, find out the factors; not necessarily who was involved, but the factors behind the accident, and take corrective action to see if we can prevent that accident from occurring again. And the last one, but -- but not least, periodic review and revision. We ask the County to adopt a resolution or procedure as to how often these seven elements are going to be revised in order to stay in compliance with current practices within the County. This is the basic 7-element plan recognized by the Texas Workers Compensation Commission. We did -- you know, we're not guaranteeing that we're going to reduce all the accidents, but it's definitely a good start to increase safety awareness among counties, okay? 30, I wanted to come down and address the Court, because I'm sure r ---- T -- -~-- 46 ~'` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 this is something new fox the County. Obviously, we have a good number of Court members new to the County also. So, if there's any issues that I -- that need to be addressed, I would like to take that opportunity to do that. JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone have any questions fox Mr. Galindo? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I notice it takes at least the Sheriff's Department and Road and Bridge participation to make this program viable? MR. GALINDO: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would assume that you would want the Maintenance Department equally involved because of the nature of the equipment that they use from time to time. MR. GALINDO: Correct. COMMI33IONER WILLIAMS: Any other departments that are mandatory? MR. GALINDO: Well, if you decide to participate, what I will do is come down and visit with Barbara and go over some of the claims to find out where, exactly, the accidents are taking place. And, based on that, I will send you a written recommendation that, "I will recommend the following departments also be included," perhaps the -- the Parks and -- if you have a Parks Department or golf course or anything like that, that's when I will do so. But, i"`` 47 r^ /`~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Z9 25 basically, we -- we definitely would like to see the law enforcement and the Road and Bridge and the Maintenance Department. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question -- have you visited with our Sheriffs Department or Road and Bridge? MR. GALINDO: Not yet. Not yet. This is -- COMMI33IONER LETZ: This is the first step right now? MR. GALINDO: No, this is the first step here. The letter was sent, and, obviously, you have till February the 12th to decide whether you want to participate or not. So, I wanted to make -- make Commissioners Court and at least answer some of your questions COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one other question, Judge. I notice that the $9,273 worth of enhancements that you offer comes in the form of premium reductions; is that correct? MR. GALINDO: That's right. That's right. COMMI3SIONER WILLIAMS: If we should determine not to participate, that means, in the alternative, that our premium goes up by that amount? MR. GALINDO: Yes. That premium -- that discount was already given to the County, because a lot of times we find out that there may be some expenses for correction of conditions out there, and we want the County to be able to ~- ___-__ 48 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 use that money. Otherwise, the premium will be what -- what you were normally scheduled to -- to receive without the safety on it. But it's not really a penalty, we're just giving you the discount ahead of the -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Up front. MR. GALINDO: Up front, yes. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Question. MR. GALINDO: Yes? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Will this replace any coherent safety program that we already have? Do we already have -- MR. GALINDO: No. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm not asking the question of you, but, I mean, do we have a safety program in place? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. We need -- we need to take a look at this thing. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So then, obviously, I think the answer is we -- we ought to. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you talk about -- when you talk about accidents, you know, I think the first thing that pops in everybody's mind is automobile collisions, those kind of things. Do you -- I mean, do we -- I think about things like when -- the Maintenance Department is wonderful about when they mop the floor, they put up those little yellow signs that say "Wet Floor" or whatever. I mean, do we y 49 r ,~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 talk about those kind of -- MR. GALINDO: That's right. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Good. MR. GALINDO: We're talking about, yes, from a slip and fall in the courthouse to a possible strain in the Road and Bridge while trying to repair a piece of equipment. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. MR. GALINDO: What we want, we want everybody -- everyone within the County to be accountable about what's going on with their employees, and if there's anything on their part that can be done to increase safety awareness, to do so. We have a -- a number of resources available to you. We have a resource library, which we have safety videos. The vidoes can be solicited by the County and we will send them to you. You can use them up to two weeks. The only cost to the County will be to return them insured, because they're fairly expensive, from $400 to $500. 30, we ask you to insure vidoes on the -- you know, when you're finished with them. And I think you can get up to two or three vidoes at a time. We have videos for administrative, for Road and Bridge, Parks and Recreation, Law Enforcement, even Personnel Management. We also have safety posters free of charge to you. All you have to do is call us and we'll give you safety posters. We have safety handouts already made that you can use in r^ 50 i`- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conjunction -- conjunction with the safety vidoes as a handout in order to reemphasize the training. We have little slips that can be put with their paychecks with safety tips. We have a variety of topics, and all of those can be -- all of that is free of charge. It's part of the service, you know, from the Association of Counties. I don't know if I should say free of charge. They're -- I'm sure somebody's paying for it. But -- you know, I don't want to mislead anyone here. But, they're there at your convenience. And we definitely encourage the counties to participate. If the County will decide, Well, we have other issues; we don't want to do this at this time -- because one thing that we have to understand is that we have a time frame to complete all these seven elements, and if you decide, We don't want to do this, you know, within the time frame, but we do want to implement safety programs, you know, the service will still be here. And I'm still your representative and I'll do everything within my power to make sure that this happens. Judge, I've had the opportunity to work with Kerr County for the past five years since I've been with the Association, and I feel very -- very comfortable saying that, you know, this is definitely within range. Obtaining this discount is definitely within range. What I do is provide sample policies as to how to go about and draft your own policies. And then I'll -- if it's r^. 51 .^, r"~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a case where the County -- I will review your policies before you adopt them, give you some feedback. I've got 67 other counties; not everyone is participating -- participating in the safety audit, but i have a pretty good idea about what's going on in all the counties, what works and what doesn't. And, that's the kind of service that you have at your disposal. 30, I would highly encourage to you give a good consideration to adopting this -- this safety program for the County. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last question I have is, you will work with department heads? MR. GALINDO: Yes. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whoever is designated, wanting to work through this? MR. GALINDO: Yes. We will need -- I would highly recommend assigning someone within the County to be sort of like the coordinator for the project, because I will need some -- somebody I can talk to and provide some feedback. Do we have somebody -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's Barbara Nemec. I'll be darned. MS. NEMEC: All this has to be in place by February 12th? MR. GALINDO: No. The resolution needs to be adopted by February the 12th, and the -- I believe the -- - - u 52 ~. r 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 completed plans should be ready by April the 30th. And then we'll come -- we will come down sometime in June or July, I believe, to do what we call a mid-summer inspection. And, what we do, we go over the plan, itself, and make sure if, in fact, this is actually being implemented out there. The problem we had last year with some Counties is that they adopted a plan and it looked good in writing, but they never put it into practice. Okay? And, we don't want to see that, because if it's not going to be done in practice, we cannot -- we cannot guarantee that it's going to work out there. We definitely need commitment, like I said. And this is something that I hope everybody within the County, not lust Commissioners Court, understands; that we really -- in order to make this happen, we need commitment from everyone, from elected officials, appointed officials, supervisors, foremen, to the hourly employee out there. JUDGE HENNEKE: If we implement this program, the discount continues; is that correct? MR. GALINDO: The discount is just for this year. Just for this year. JUDGE HENNEKE: Just for this year? MR. GALINDO: Yes. Judge, the way that we -- we provide or we figure your cost of Workers Compensation is that we -- we look at your history, okay? And then we say, Well, this county had so many accidents over the past three 53 f'"~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 years, and then calculate a loss ratio and experience modifier. Based on those experience modifiers, you receive discounts or surcharges. Obviously, the object is to get as many discounts as possible. So, the less accidents we have, the better history we're going to have, the better price you're going to be eligible for. So, what we try to do is try to get organized now, okay, and hopefully -- this year's will be there, yes, and the -- the $9,000 will be for this year. But, hopefully, the incentive will be -- hopefully, we'll continue to receive better savings in future years if we qet our accident rate lower. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll make a motion -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any questions? COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only question is, I notice on the resolution that's attached with this and from comments you made, that the Sheriff's Department has to want to do this, as well. MR. GALINDO: That's right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can speak for Road and Bridge and Maintenance, but we cannot mandate, I don't think, the Sheriff to do this. So, I think if we do make a motion, we make it contingent on the Sheriff concurring. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I lust -- what I want to do before we do vote, too, is see if there is any comments from our County Treasurer, if she has any thoughts one way or r-- _ --, 59 ~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 /'~ • - 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 the other. MS. NEMEC: I think it's a good idea, but I would hate for us to go through all this work to get it set up and not have the support of the other departments, because without them, it's not going to work, like Ernest said. And I know, right now, it's like pulling teeth to get these departments to even report injuries to us. We have so many days that the injuries need to be reported, and we have a lot of paperwork that we need do fn our office. Just last week, we found out that someone had had surgery and been out 19 days, and we didn't -- they hadn't even told us. We were paying him on sick leave benefits; we didn't know that that employee was out on worker's comp. 30 -- so we already have a problem. And, I mean, I have sent out memo after memo to everyone telling them the importance of them reporting injuries, and we still have a problem. So, it's going to take a lot of communication and -- and educating and other departments wanting to participate for this to work. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think those departments that are directly under the Commissioners Court, that will be corrected. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This will be a good thing toy review all of that through. This process will make us do that. So -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. r-. X 55 r^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. GALINDO: And that is a problem that we try to address in other counties, you know, the accident investigation element, because what we do, we implement a procedure as to -- okay, you can investigate accidents, but before you can investigate the accident, you're going to have to have the information. So, we establish procedures as to how to go about and report accidents and how many days and so forth, and facilitate the process. MS. NEMEC: Maybe this will be a good way to -- MR. GALINDO: To address that issue. M3. NEMEC: Right, to make that work better. JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I move that we adopt a resolution for claiming our support on behalf of the County to implement an effective Accident Prevention Program in agreement with the Texas Association of Counties. JUDGE HENNEKE: And that's a point resolution with the Sheriff? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Do we have a second? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams moved, Commissioner Griffin seconded, that we adopt a resolution participating in the safety program with the Texas Association of Counties. Any further discussion? 56 r-~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. GALINDO: Judge, would you recommend that I address the Sheriff separately? To -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Let us finish our action here. MR. GALINDO: Okay. JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed? (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. We'll talk to her about it. MR. GALINDO: Okay. One last thing. The Sheriff's Department -- you know, sometimes they operate differently than anybody else, and a lot of times they want to adopt their own plan to -- you know, they want to stipulate how they're going to address this component separately. And, if that's the case, that's fine with us. That's fine. if the Road and Bridge wants to adopt a different plan, that's fine with us. As long as the Commissioners Court and the Sheriff agree with that and that's, in fact, what they're going to do out there in the field, it's not a problem. Thank you. JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much for bringing it to us. We appreciate it. JUDGE HENNEKE: The next agenda item, number 2.6, consider action necessary to change the Trustee of the ,~^ 57 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Schreiner Road Fund Trust. Tommy? MR. TOMLINSON: I'd like -- I think I've explained the situation in a memo that you have in your packet. Basically, it's to -- to move the -- or change Trustees of the Schreiner Road Trust, move it back to Kerrville. I've visited with the Trust Department of our depository, which is Security State Bank. They've agreed to handle the trust for -- I think it's one-half of one percent of the cost of the principal value of the trust. At the current time, we're dealing with -- with NationsBank, which inherited the trust with the closure of Schreiner bank, and their fees have been approximately one and one half percent of the value of the trust. And, I just -- I lust -- personally, I would like to be able to deal with someone locally. And our -- the audit of the trust is -- is done here by Pressler Thompson and Company. They do the audit of the trust, and recommend to the Trustee the amount of -- the amount of distribution of income that the County gets. There are provisions, I think, in the trust that -- where the Trustee has to -- has to approve expenditures made by the Commissioners Court, and I feel like that that stipulation would be better satisfied with someone locally. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The way I read the agreement or the trust is that -- I mean, it was put together in the '20's where there was really a body of Trustees that approved 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 or disapproved. MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That hasn't been around since then. MR. TOMLINSON: Well, and I think it was sometime in the '40's before the -- before that time, the Schreiner family, itself, administered the trust. It's at some date in the 90's, they transferred that trusteeship to the Trust Department of Charles Schreiner Bank, and I think that's when the Trust Department was formed. And, that actually took a Court action to do that. So, my -- my recommendation is to let our civil attorney review the trust instrument and the Court order moving the Trustee to Charles Schreiner Bank to see what further action that we might have to do to move this to -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move to it Security State Bank. MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move. We'll just use his statement as the motion. Or do you want a motion? JUDGE HENNEKE: You moved? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I moved. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll second it, with a question. And this is based on my new-found Austfn knowledge from last week, but i iust want to make sure that the record reflects, this is -- the size of the trust, obviously, is i^ 59 ~'^~ r-- !"~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 well above $15,000, but all of the transactions involved here are much less than $15,000 in a single year. So, we don't -- and I assume our review of this would point this out, too; we do not have to put this out for bid. MR. TOMLINSON: No, actually this is service -- it's a service contract. COMMIS3IONER GRIFFIN: I lust want to make sure that the record reflects that, because it's important. MR. TOMLIN3ON: Well, we have our -- COMMI33IONR GRIFFIN: And let me tell you why it's important. Because you can't buy locally because it's convenient. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's in the statute that way, and so it's not dust a matter of convenience. it's also well within the statute for us to do this wherever we want to because the amount's less than $15,000. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: I have a question, Judge. Tommy, the $182,000 that you represent here as in the trust, is that the -- the body of the trust, or there's interest? MR. TOMLINSON: No, there's no interest. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: That's the body of the trust. And the amount that it earns, then, is automatically forwarded over to Road and Bridge? MR. TOMLINSON: It's transferred to -- the funds 60 r" 1 are put into Road and Bridge fund. And then, once the funds 2 are there, they're invested and then the Court -- it's at the 3 Court's discretion to use that -- those funds according to 9 the -- to the trust agreement. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Stipulations as to where and 6 how. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Where. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mainly where. I can't get any 9 of that money and neither can you, Bill. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Can't get all of it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't get any of it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It can only be used for 13 Precinct 1 and Precinct 9. Larry and I are happy to do it. ~_ 19 MR. TOMLIN3ON: We do have our contaac -- our 15 contract with -- with our depository, I think that we have at 16 least two years left on that contract. So, that is another 17 reason to -- to take it to our depository. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion's been made by Commissioner 19 Baldwin to authorize the Auditor to contact our civil 20 attorney to review the trust agreement and the order to 21 determine whether we can move this trust from NationsBank to 22 Security Bank. Seconded by Commissioner Griffin. Any 23 further discussion? In not, all in favor, raise raise your 29 right hand. 25 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 61 ,~^ ,,'` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Tommy, you might as well stay up there. Next item is 2.7, consider declaration of certain items of personal property surplus: Adds 6000 computer, three Genicom 1000 matrix printers, and Adds 600 line printer. MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. These are -- the first one is a computer system that was in place, but it was the original mainframe computer that was purchased when -- when the County automated. Was it '70 -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: '79 or '80. MR. TOMLINSON: '79 or '80. And all this equipment, actually, is equipment that goes with that. It's equipment that's totally outdated. You can't get a service contract on it, and there are actually no -- no parts available to -- to even fix it if you want to. I remember that the last -- the last maintenance contract that we had on this Adds computer was around $20,000 per year. So, what I have in mind is, there are some -- some nonprofit organizations that -- that use computer parts or peripheral parts to be either in a training situation, or to use them to -- to try to repair the peripheral equipment that someone might need, like, that's nonprofit. So, that's what I suggest that we do. 62 ~^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we declare the five items designated as surplus. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we declare the five items as surplus. Any further discussion? All in favor, please raise raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion passes. Let's take up one more item, and then we'll have a break. We'll take up Item 2.8, consider and discuss approval of budget amendment to purchase a 4-drawer lockable file cabinet, submitted by the Sheriff. She's not able to be here this morning. She talked with me briefly, said that this is an item of equipment they need for their Special Investigation Unit. At this point, they do not have a lockable file cabinet for that unit, and there's a need to maintain confidential information, as well as perhaps, from time to time, certain evidence. She's asked us to move some money from her Medical budget to Capital Outlay for the purpose of making this purchase. Tommy, do you have any comment on that at all? MR. TOMLINSON: No. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we approve it. 63 r r'` a^^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any discussion? COMMIS3IONER LETZ: My only -- my only question is, is there any money in her Capital Outlay account? She's expended everything? MR. TOMLIN3ON: At this point, there's -- she hasn't used all of her capital outlay money, so there's a chance that there might be. But, at this point, no. I would -- I mean, I would say that -- that the chances of her using it all to be likely. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further discussion? If not, all in favor, please raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. At this time, let's take a 10-minute break until lust after 10:30, and I'd like to, with the Court's indulgence, consider taking up Item 2.12. I see we have a number of our friends here from Center Point. I think there's an item that concerns them. Is there any objection that we take that up7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None at all. Good idea. JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We'll be in recess for about 10 minutes. 64 /` /'` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (Recess taken from 10:22 a.m. to 10:35 a.m.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Court will now be back in session. As we announced before the break, we're going to exercise our discretionary authority here and take up Item 2.12, consider and discuss resolution officially declaring the City of Center Point a Colonia. And, of course, the definition's promulgated by U.S.D.A. Rural Utility Services. Commissioner Williams. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Thank you, Judge. Commissioners, what we want to do today is to present -- have presented for us and discuss the important elements of this request to declare the City of Center Point a Colonia in regard to the definition promulgated by the U.S.D.A. Rural Utility Services Branch. Center Point Commissioner and Mayor pro tem Hesseltine requested that I put this on the agenda, and I have done so. He has indicated he will bring, for this discussion, the engineer which I believe was commissioned by the City of Center Point to prepare a study outlining what the costs would be for a water supply and distribution system and a wastewater treatment and collections system for construction and total statement of cost. And, I think we want to hear from him and Mr. Hesseltine with regard to that. Before we get started with that, I'd like to make one comment that I think is important. I am 100 percent 65 s~ s1 /'~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 committed to the goal of seeing that the City of Center Point and the eastern part of Kerr County, to the extent possible, is ultimately served by wastewater treatment facilities and a good, viable, potable water system. I think the question today that has to be asked and answered -- and particularly, I want to know, and I'm certain my colleagues and the Judge want to know, is this approach the best approach? We need to know that. We need to know also, are there any down sides to such a request as this? The declaration of Colonia status, what does that convey? Give us the pluses and the minuses. Having said that, then we'll ask Commissioner Hesseltine and Mr. Littlefield to proceed. MR. HESSELTINE: Good morning. I am Delmas Hesseltine, City Commissioner and Mayor pro tem, and I have been voted on to act in all matters of the U.3.D.A.-R.U.S. grant. First of all, under the direction of Commissioner Williams and Judge Henneke, I have supplied the information to y'all that you wanted, with the exception of one particular item. That is an item that is on the wastewater system. We have decided that we will try to include the Center Point North system, which is available to us to serve, but not under the 100 percent Colonia grant program. There is a grant program that -- grant loan program that offers 75/25 ox 50/50, you know, depending on the area. And, after talking to our engineer, he seems to think that we could 66 fi ~^'~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 probably do this under a 75/25 to Center Point North. And, that would be a debt service of over -- at 40 years, would be very little debt service to -- to adhere out of that. We -- we think that it's going to be an excellent program for Center Point and its area citizens. The -- the other thing, to bring you up-to-date, we -- prior to -- according to U.3.D.A. rules and regulations, we were to post a meeting 10 days prior for public meeting, which we did, and we held that public meeting on January 21st, 1999. At that meeting, there was a resolution, which y'all have a copy of, that was passed by the Commissioners Court to apply an application for this funding under the U.S.D.A.-R.U.S. program. Also in compliance, there was a motion made and passed on and approved to request that the Kerr County Judge and Commissioners Court designate and certify Center Point as a Colonia before October the 1st, 1989. That meets the criteria of the U.S.D.A. program. The other criteria is the definition of a Colonia. The Colonia definition, which you do have, and I'll read it: Any identified community, designated in writing by the state or county in which it is located, determined to be a Colonia on the basis of objective criteria, including lack of potable water supply, lack of adequate sewer systems, and lack of decent, safe, and sanitary housing, inadequate roads and drainage, and -- existing, and was generally recognized 67 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 /`` as a Colonia before October 1st, 1989. Marvin Crabtree, with the U.S.D.A.-R.U.S. program, came to our city. He was taken over all areas of the city, and as our engineer stated at the last meeting, the engineer gave him a red pencil so he could pencil in areas that were not available for funding. When that was through, there was not a red mark on the map that he had in his possession. He did state to us, about the Center Point North system, that that would be available under the grant loan program, you know. Proceeding on with that, we had Clarence Littlefield with Southwest Engineers do a preliminary cost estimate on that, and which you have. That estimate was about 3.2 for the sewer system that covers Centex Point, about 900,000 that covers the water system to serve areas not served by private water companies. The area that's known as Center Point North was -- the figure on that was around $239,000. So, just the total on this, on this preliminary figure, is around 9.9. COMMISSIONER HALDWIN: Mr. Hesseltine, for the record, when you say 3.2, you mean $3.2 million? MR. HESSELTINE: Million, yes. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. MR. HESSELTINE: And $900,000 on the water, and $239,000 on Center Point North sewer. And I think y'all have the documentation except for that last figure. At this time, you know, we'll entertain any questions that the 68 ~~~, /". 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2. 2i 2! Commissioners Court has. We have Clarence Littlefield with Southwest Engineers here to -- to supply any information that y'all might want to know. At this time, I'll bring Clarence up. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It might be helpful if Mr. Littlefield addresses us and gives us a little bit more background about other communities that have -- have gone tt,t~ mute. There is concern, Mx. Littlefield -- I don't mind telling you, there is concern among some folks as to how this definition affects property values of existing homes and business properties right now, and I'd like for to you address some of those thoughts and give us your knowledge and experience in other situations which may be similar, please. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Okay. JCIDGE HENNEKE: If I could lump in here for just a second -- excuse me, Bill. Delmas, I think it would be useful for you to very quickly tell what this grant does and what it covers. MR. HESSELTINE: This grant covers a sewer treatment plant and all collection lines for the City of Center Point. The area -- ~"` MR. LITTLEFIELD: E.T.J. MR. HESSELTINE: And its E.T.J., yes. And that would include the 80-plus mobile unit trailer park at the south end of our city. It also, under the grant loan F 69 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 program, would serve Center Point North, which is 60-plus units, you know. And that would be -- would be primarily what it would serve. Of course, we still can serve outside the city limits in the E.T.J. area. It's lust a matter of what we want to do. We have plans to serve the football field area along with this, you know. And, the water system or the water side of the program is for water wells, elevated storage tank, and distribution lines to all areas not served by private water companies. JUDGE HENNEKE: What percentage of the cost for these facilities does the grant cover? MR. HESSELTINE: Percentage is -- 100 percent is covered by the grant, except for the Center Point North area. JUDGE HENNEKE: How many -- how many houses would the sewer wastewater treatment -- MR. HESSELTINE: Somewhere around 500. JUDGE HENNEKE: Five hundred, okay. Well -- MR.HESSELTINE: You know, we don't have an exact figure, but it's going to be a plus or minus there. We started out with 930, plus the Center Point North, which is 60-something, so we're talking about 990, you know, to 500. And could be more. We -- JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's lust useful for everyone to understand exactly how comprehensive this program is. ~o E^ 1 MR. HESSELTINE: Yeah, is it a very comprehensive 2 program, and it's going to serve an area that is very 3 critical at this point in time. U.G.R.A. has even -- the 4 president of the Board of U.G.R.A. and the General Manager 5 has made comments at meetings prior to all of this happening 6 that we were -- or they said an entity was pursuing Z aggressively the possibility of getting a grant. And they 8 have encouraged it, you know. And, they -- they are willing 9 to work with us in all areas, especially -- they are 10 especially interested in the sewer treatment plant and the it effluent that comes out of it that can be used for irrigation 12 purposes or something down-river. They are very interested 13 in that. So, at this point in time, it's just a matter of ,~'~ 14 us, again, working with U.G.R.A. to implement this and ge 15 this done. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When we talk about E.T.J., 17 are we talking about one mile? 18 MR. HESSELTINE: No. One-half mile, Buster, excuse 19 me. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In Center Point, even though 21 Kerrville is one mile? 22 MR. HESSELTINE: Yeah. Kerrville is one mile under y3 general law of the State of Texas. Center Point has a half a 29 mile E.T.J. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Which still takes in __ __ . T~~ 71 r- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 a tremendous -- MR. HE33ELTINE: A tremendous area. Yes, it does. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like Mr. Littlefield to address one other element, too, in his discussion back to the Court. Please tell us, if you will, what is the County's obligation, ongoing, over and above passing the resolution? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's my question. JUDGE HENNEKE: I apologize for interrupting you. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: That's all right. We want to get everything out we can. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Your last question, Judge -- and, for the record, my name is Clarence Littlefield with ~-- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 Southwest Engineers in Gonzales. The County's obligation past or beyond declaring it a Colonia, which makes them eligible for the 100 percent grant, would be nothing other than support. No monetary involvement at all, but just the support of the project and support of Center Point in this endeavor. And, as the Commissioner indicated, the -- the potential and possibility of further development up and down Highway 27. We're talking about all the way from your county line into Kerrville as being an ultimate part of this -- this project that we're starting right now. Backing up to -- to one of your other comments or questions, the Colonia program first became prevalent, I guess, in the late '80's, when there became grant funds 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 available through the different federal programs, primarily to serve counties that bordered on the Rio Grande River. And, if you'll look at -- at maps and publications and documentation, you'll find that every county along there, and maybe even one or two counties in from the river, has every community declared a Colonia. This was done by, I think, the Water Development Board back in the '80's to, again, make these communities eligible for these grant programs. About 1992, Rural Utility Services decided to expand that from lust border counties to within 150 miles. Because of that, there's a lot of counties in this corridor that had eligible communities, but they were not designated as a Colonia because they just kind of fell through the cracks back in the early or late '80's. That wasn't even considered to be part of the program, so they didn't go through that effort. And it -- it's my understanding that to add or -- to add a Colonia designation requires the Commissioners Court or, as the Commissioner indicated, I guess the Water Development Board of the state could do that. The -- we work with quite a few communities in the border communities, Webb County, Zapata, Starr, Dimmit County. We've got projects going in those communities, in those counties now. Of course, they were declared Colonias back in the '80's, and everybody just took it and went from that point. If you're familiar with some of the little 73 s'~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 /^ 19 15 16 17 IS 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 communities in Webb County, Mirando City or Bruni, I don't know if anybody -- you're not shaking your heads yes, so y'all have drawn blanks there. The Mirando City community was established in the 20's by Mr. -- by Mr. Bruni, and it had grown and the oil industry developed it. It's a community of -- of probably 200 houses. That's a subdivision layout. Streets are paved. It's not unlike Center Point. They'xe not shacks out there; there are nice homes. That was declared a Colonia, and they are getting a receipt of over one and a half million dollar Colonia grant for their complete sewer system. The community of Bruni is toward Hebbronville, and it's in Webb County „ and it's about 175 homes. That community is a very wealthy community. Their school district had to give over $3 million of the -- of their revenues, tax revenues, to other school districts, and their budget is $2 million. So, they're a wealthy community, but yet they do not have first time sewer. They were declared a Colonia and got the grant. ', The question has come up, will property values decline dust because there is a Colonia designation. I wish I could say no. I wish I could say yes. I don't know. That's -- I think maybe that's in the eyes of the beholder. Who -- you know, if -- if being called a Colonia causes considerable heartburn, then, you know, maybe that's a problem. But, in this instance, it is a means by which the community can 7--_ ~__--, _r.. 74 r"~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 Z1 22 23 29 25 obtain a 100 percent grant. Without this program, the next best thing is a 75 percent grant, 25 percent loan through rural development -- Rural Utility Services. Just for some -- some rough numbers, the $3.2 million project with 930 homes would equate to a $40 per month per home debt without a grant. A 25 percent loan would drop it to $10. That would be the annual -- I mean the monthly payment for the debt service. And then you would add onto that the operating costs, which we've been guessing as $10 to -- $10, plus or minus. So, the impact of -- of being able to -- to fall in under the Colonia program, dollar-wise, would fall somewhere between zero dollar debt and $90 debt per month per house. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You mean obligation? MR. LITTLEFIELD: Obligation, yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the homeowner. MR. LITTLEFIELD: That's correct, with it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or user of the service. MR. LITTLEFIELD: That is correct. 30, that's a monetary impact. If -- if that monetary impact is -- is not felt to be a problem, then there's no need for a Colonia, but that's a lot of money to be receiving. And, again, a longterm impact on the residents. The -- as the Commissioner indicated, we had a representative -- representative of Rural Utility Services drove the town with us, and he felt like the 75 r~-- /'` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 community met all the conditions of a Colonia. And, you know, that's -- that's about all that we can ask. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Couple questions. One, on the impact of the resolution. If we were to approve the resolution, is that it? I mean, is it a done deal? Or does that go to somebody for review to see if -- MR. LITTLEFIELD: The process that we qo through is a -- over 100 items on a checklist. First item -- the first item is the public meeting, which we've held. So, we've got a long way to go. COMMI3SIONER GRIFFIN: That was my second question. You've already done that step? MR. LITTLEFIELD: Right. The next step is the submission of the application. The application is the same form, whether it's the Colonia grant program or it's the 25/75 loan grant program; it's the same application. We would submit it, though, with a -- with a cover letter saying that we are submitting it under the Colonia grant program. And, once that application is received, there are others in line ahead of us, so it's a matter of waiting. The Bruni community I mentioned, they submitted their application and the monies that first year were already used up, so they fell fn line for the next year. And, that's this program. There's -- there's not somebody else coming along and dumping ahead of you with a better application. You get in line with 76 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMI33IONER GRIFFIN: I see. MR. LITTLEFIELD: And there is -- as we shared the other night, there is a window of opportunity for the community. How long will the program be available? It started in '92. Where we axe now, in the year 2000, you know, who's to determine whether the powers that be in Washington declare that there's no need for that any more and it stops? There's -- when we -- if we submit this application for Center Point, we may find that the day before we submit it, 10 other people submit it, 10 other communities, and we're pretty far down the line. But, until you make the application, you don't know where you stand. COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. We all have this fear of, when the federal government gives us money out of the kindness of their heart -- which is ridiculous; it's our money. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Makes you feel good. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They feel good about it. There's all kind of little ties to it. Have you seen anything like that? I mean, are they going to cause our kids to eat seaweed for 12 months or any kind of tie like that, that would -- they send us our money and we have to do thus and such? MR. LITTLEFIELD: There is a letter of conditions, r 4 77 /r`'_ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 and most of the conditions are exactly similar to what a bank would give you if you made a loan or if you had a loan from the bank. You -- in other words, you will provide annual audits, you will make sure that all the facilities are insured. The employees you hire, or the method by which you conduct business, is in a nondiscriminatory manner. That's the type of thing -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that kind of stuff. MR. LITTLEFIELD: So, they don't -- don't impose any -- any other unusual -- I've been working with the U.S.D.A. for over 30 years, and some of the programs are getting close to their 40-year payout, but I've never had any problem. In fact, it's more the other way. I wish at times they would keep a stronger hand over the little communities to make sure they operate properly. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Some of them have a tendency to lust let it go to heck and have problems. And they don't even do that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That prompts a couple questions. First of all, for this $3.2 million and $900,000- plus for water, tell me, exactly what does this provide in -- in terms of sewer? And we're laying -- laying a total collection system in the community; is that correct? MR. LITTLEFIELD: That's correct. 78 i"" /'~ r-- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And is there an obligation on the part of the homeowner to pay the hookup to this, or do we bring the treatment right to the homeowner's pipe coming out of his or her home or business? MR. LITTLEFIELD: As the program stands today, we are providing service to the home. We disconnect from the house to the cesspool or septic tank. We intercept that line and take it out to the street where the conventional collection system is. We take it to a series of list stations and pump it to the treatment plant for ultimate disposal, whether that be irrigation or disposal back into the river. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What size treatment facility is being proposed for this area, in terms of capacity, the capacity to handle today and capacity to -- to handle additional effluent later? MR. LITTLEFIELD: Unfortunately, one of the restrictions that -- that the agency does impose, we can go up to about a 50 percent oversize, but they're not going to fund anything any larger than that. So if there is -- in the eyes of the leaders in the community and up- and down-river, if there's a feel that, Hey, you know, 50 percent is not going to be enough, we need to be 75 percent or we need to be double, then the expansion funds would have to come from some other source. That could be a loan through this same agency, 79 /'` 1 Z 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 but they're not going to dust go out and give you a grant for doubling the plant size. They're going to be basing it on the consumers that you have, plus some small growth factor to it. You had another question, and it slipped my mind. MR. HESSELTINE: The size of it, which was, monthly, about 250,000 gallons. MR. LITTLEFIELD: 250,000. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Question. i COMMISSIONER LETZ: You say that -- you made a statement that there's no strings attached other than normal -- but, I mean, I'm concerned about that a lot. Whenever you ~ deal with the federal government, E.P.A. comes right to the front, and E.P.A. is extremely onerous -- and any agency, for that matter. You know, there is nothing beyond what we do currently going to be required under E.P.A, or any other federal guidelines, you know, by us, one, making the designation, or two, construction of the facility? MR. LITTLEFIELD: As of September this -- this past year, the State of Texas T.N.R.C.C. finally received recognition by E.P.A. for full administering of the sewer program. They've been -- prior to that, we've had -- every community has had to have two permits, a national permit and a T.N.R.C.C. permit. As of September, it's one permit for everything. So, the -- the regulators that we would be answering to would be T.N.R.C.C., and that would be with the __-- --- _ --_--_____~_. -T .,. _ ~ eo r-- 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 wastewater treatment plant. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that make you feel better? COMMI3SIONER LETZ: I'm not sure. That didn't help a lot. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Well, that's today, now. Y'all are very aware -- aware of -- you know, they can change things. But -- but with the programs we've worked with, this has not been a problem at all. COMMI33IONER LETZ: Who's going to operate the facility the at this point? MR. LITTLEFIELD: There are several -- several options. We mentioned -- or the Commissioner mentioned the Upper Guadalupe River Authority. The initial application would be going in with the City of Center Point as being the operator. Prior to the time that this plant is completed, I can visualize that there's going to be other players in this plant, so who the ultimate operator of the plant may be might not be the City. There may be -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it goes in as City of Center Point? MR. LITTLEFIELD: The application is going in as the City of Center Point. COMMISSIONER LETZ: City of Center Point doesn't have any means to do this? ,~ sl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 MR. LITTLEFIELD: That's correct. MR. HESSELTINE: At this present time, yes. Now, there's a lot of different scenarios that can be -- and Clarence touched on U.G.R.A. Right now, U.G.R.A. has no -- no means of operating the plant either, but there are entities out there that will and can be contracted with to operate this. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Down in Comfort, just down the river, the Guadalupe Blanco River Authority is operating that plant. There's water districts. One of the applicants in Zapata County has that 3 -- or $4.3 million of the Colonia grant, they are contracting with Zapata County Waterworks, and they will be pumping their effluent to that existing treatment plant. COMMISSIONER LETZ: One or the other. U.G.R.A. has made the statement a number of times that they do not feel that ft will be possible to get any discharge permits into the Guadalupe. If that is, in fact, the case, you can rely on irrigation only? MR. LITTLEFIELD: Yes, on irrigation, or if there's some industrial reuse of the water, you know. We hear the stories coming out of San Antonio where they`re piping water to different locations, golf courses for irrigation, cooling tower water, make up water for that. So, there's other uses that might not be available today in Kerr County, but s-~ ,~ 82 .--- ~~'^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 something could -- could materialize, in effect. So, if we look as of today, I would think irrigation or discharge would be your two options. MR. HESSELTINE: Jonathan, if I may, before you go on? Excuse me. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. MR. HESSELTINE: Commissioner Griffin, U.G.R.A. has said that the Hunt/Ingram area -- there will be no discharge permit in the Hunt/Ingram area for any kind of sewage treatment plant. That means that all of that effluent will have to be -- have to come to Kerrville to be processed. Down-river from Center Point, depending on the area that the plant is located, we could even work with G.B.R.A. at this point in time. And, as you know, Comfort is being -- is experiencing some difficulties with their plant. G.B.R.A. is really putting the pressure on them to -- to take care of that situation, but they haven't yet. And it -- the scenario might be that we could get with G.B.R.A. and -- and the Comfort water district/sewer district, and get B.G.R.A. involved in a regional plant with us to treat that effluent also. We don't know for sure, but the General Manager of U.G.R.A. said that that's a possibility, you know; that you just have to -- you have to work at it and go with it as you -- as you proceed. But, I've also -- I also know that the G.B.R.A. involvement in it would almost assure that if you 83 i^ s^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 22 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 had a higher quality effluent treatment from that plant, that you would probably get -- they would not oppose a permit into the Guadalupe. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I may oppose this because of G.B.R.A., alone. MR. HESSELTINE: Well, I understand that. But, remember -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's two of us that will oppose you if you involve them. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's what I said, but G.B.R.A. does have a lot of say-so, what happens in the Guadalupe. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. Not in this County, though. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: puestion. Your -- the program that covers the cost to hook up to the homes that you mentioned earlier. MR. HESSELTINE: That's correct. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have you established or will you establish a City Ordinance that requires the homeowners to hook up to that? Because there's always a stumbling block, that there's old Joe out there who says, "My septic system's working fine, I don't want to get hooked up." How are you going to handle that? MR. HESSELTINE: I would think that, at some point Ii 84 i"`~ ,~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in time before this application is completely done, that that will be almost a -- a prerequisite to this. COMMIS3IONER GRIFFIN: Which you would think so. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Yes. I think that part of the loan conditions or grant conditions would be that the City institute a mandatory sewage hookup. There may be a time factor of when that will be done, but I think it will be very much to the advantage of the citizenry to do it initially. Because, if it's not initial, then they're looking at paying that cost themselves. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- I know you had some public comment things from people in the audience. JUDGE HENNEKE: There are. When we're finished here right now, we'll certainly take those public comments. Anything else from any of the Commissioners? COMMIS3IONER WILLIAM3: I lust want to reflect on what Commissioner Letz said, I think that comment about U.G.R.A. having to do with anything above the City of Kerrville water -- that there certainly wouldn't be any discharge permits allowed above the City of Kerrville's water. But below it, it's a matter of applying for that. MR. LITTLEFIELD: I might add that in our cost estimate for this wastewater plant, we -- we did anticipate tertiary treatment. We anticipated pretty good quality 85 ,^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 effluent, equal to the quality of the stream. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other comments from the Commissioners? Anything else? Mr. Littlefield? Delmas7 MR. HESSELTINE: Not that I know of. JUDGE HENNEKE: We do have some people who have signed up to address this, so at this time, I believe we'll recognize them. First, Mayor Shults, Mayor of Center Point. Will you come forward, please, and -- and give us your comments on this item. MS. SHULTS: Thank you, sir. I'm here in response to numerous telephone calls since our last meeting. We had a 10-day notice on the public hearing. We had 72 hours notice on the special meeting, which included five or six items, two of them touching on this particular subject. People are saying we need more time, we need to look at this, we need to investigate this. And that's why I'm here, because I -- when I ran for Commissioner, I said, I'm going to listen to the people. And I did, and I got elected mayor. And, we must give dignity to the people who pay the taxes. And that's why I came to talk to you, ask you if there is any way that we can have more time to investigate it. That's all I have to say. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question, if I may, on that. Is there -- I mean, the votes to proceed, I guess -- I presume that the Commissioners in Center Point requested it - ~-~- 86 ~. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 be put on the agenda. What was the vote? Is -- was that a unanimous vote? MS. SHULT3: It always is. The -- the -- we anticipated the public hearing. We did not anticipate these other items that appeared on our agenda. Do you want a copy of it? COMMI33IONER LETZ: I guess I'm confused. I mean, if it was a unanimous vote by the Commissioners to put it on the agenda, then we have one Commissioner asking us to approve something and the other -- and the mayor requesting we table ft, essentially. MAYOR 3CHULT3: Well, we lust ask for more time, if you can grant us that, so that we can -- the people can be informed what this is going to cost. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions of the mayor? Thank you, mayor. Appreciate your time. Next person who signed up is Mike Flanagan. MR. FLANAGAN: I think I'd like to defer to Charlie first. JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Charlie Gallimore2 MR. GALLIMORE: I'm Charlie Gallimore, a citizen of Center Point. There's been little time for many of us to look further into the implications of the Colonia status since Thursday night. All we've been able to do is do some informal calling to friends and contacts in the valley. Most i-- 87 '~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ,_ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of them are -- "horrified" is not a bad word, and -- at the designation, "Colonia," and what it does to property values, what it does to a City's ability to raise funds through a bond issue. Redlining is, of course, illegal, but it is done; we all know that it is. So, I think that, again, I would support the mayor's request for more time for us to understand more clearly what the implications of the Colonia designation are. When does it stop? How long -- granted, if it were -- if we got the money and the sewage system were put in, it would greatly increase our property values. What if, in the meantime -- we don't know how many years this will take -- we don't get the grant? We're still a Colonia. Is this bad or good? Many of us simply don't know the answer to these things, and would ask for more time to find out what it means. More time to talk to the U.S.D.A., perhaps to talk to Jim Brown. Is this the best plan for Center Point? Is this the only plan, the only way that we're going to get sewage and good water? It seems to me, from what I read in the papers, that U.G.R.A. had plans to include us in their -- their wastewater treatment and clean water programs. What about those? Where do they fit in7 And can we not have those things without this particular grant? So, I am going to echo the mayor, to ask for more time to understand the -- understand clearly ~_ - ---- . i-- ___ T__ 88 r^` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 what the designation of Colonia means. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You want lust more time? Can you tell us what amount of more time you would need? Are we talking 12 weeks or -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: What is the timeline? JUDGE HENNEKE: First, let's start -- let's do it organized, start with Mr. Littlefield. What would be the downside if we table this resolution for two weeks? MR. LITTLEFIELD: As I alluded earlier, Lne application form is the same, whichever program you go under. So, to delay the designation of a Colonia really won't impact the application. We're going to -- the Commissioner has already authorized us to proceed with the application, so that -- declaring it a Colonia won't impact our work, 'cause we're looking at probably 45 days or so to get everything ready to submit. We, at that time, will be -- you know, we need to know which program we're going under. JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd ask the mayor or Mr. Gallimore, you know, what does two weeks do for y'a117 What time period are you seeking to have? MR. GALLIMORE: I think 30 days would -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Please come forward. MR. GALLIMORE: My -- I should have mentioned that my recommendation would be for 30 days. JUDGE HENNEKE: So, until the second meeting in a9 /", ~- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 February, which will be the 22nd, is what you would -- MR. GALLIMORE: Yes. JUDGE HENNEKE: -- you would prefer? Mr. Hesseltine, do you want to respond to that request? Let's dust get a dialogue going here. MR. HESSELTINE: Well, the -- the request is dust an attempt to -- to stall it out. But, what I suggest and what my position on it is, in fact, that the quicker you get in line for funding, the quicker you get funded. If you stall this 45 days, there may be 39 others in line before you, you know, whatever. So, the quicker you get in line, the quicker you can get your funding. Now, you know, who's to say how many is going to apply before that time frame? i don't know. COMMI3SIONER WILLIAM3: Delmas, I thought I understood Mr. Littlefield to say that the -- the completion of your application process will take about 30 to 95 days. MR. HESSELTINE: It's a possibility. Could be shorter. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so, notwithstanding what this Court does today, that process can continue; is that correct? I'm seeing a nod. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Yes. MR. HESSELTINE: Fine. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Without impeding when you r __ _-_ - ------_ 90 r^. r" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 file it7 MR. HESSELTINE: No. As far as the application is concerned, if it takes Clarence 30 days to file it, get it ready to file it, well, that's when he'll file it. The only thing is that you, as Commissioners Court, has to remember that this has to be the designated so we can get it into R.U.S. and U.S.D.A. prior to that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that that process can continue without any -- any -- being impeded by whether we do or do not act today. And that gives other folks an opportunity to examine some of the questions that are of concern to them as well before this Court takes up the issue. MR. HESSELTINE: Yeah. COMMI3SIONER WILLIAMS: Am I hearing correctly? MR. LITTLEFIELD: Yes, sir. MR. HESSELTINE: With the exception that this designation has to be prior to any -- any application by the City to U.S.D.A. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We understand. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But that resolution could come the day before the application was submitted? MR. HESSELTINE: Yes. But we would like for it to be prior to that, because that gives U.S.D.A. and R.U.S. more time frame to know that it's coming in. r`~ 91 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other comments or questions? Come forward. MR. TAYLOR: Thank you. JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Taylor? MR. TAYLOR: Judge, Commissioners, I'm Eddie Taylor and I appreciate you letting me talk a little bit. I'd like to clear up one or two little statements that were made here. First we're working on $3.2 million for Center Point. Then we're working on $900,000. If I'm wrong, somebody correct me. Then we have another 2-point-something, North Center Point. I noticed in here we're going to try to service the football field. The football field is east of my house, which is in the exterior -- extra territory that they're starting, so I don't want you thinking that it's right in Center Point. And I'm sure that we're trying to cover two or three things here, but there are some misleading statements in there. JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. MR. TAYLOR: And if you consider those, I do have a concern with this Colonia. I don't think we're quite as bad as the thing goes. I think we need sewer and we need water bad, but we don't need all the extra little things that might degrade our community and make it harder to live there. I appreciate y'all listening to me today, and thank you very ,-~ u 93 r !-. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Now, we had a hearing on Thursday -- it was Thursday night. We had Friday. Thursday night they also had a council meeting after the hearing, passed the resolution to do this. The next thing is Monday morning, and we're up here in front of you. Now, I think that's what you call "whew" (motion indicating), you know? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could you spell that for the record? MR. HARVEY: Anyway, that's all I have to say. But I think we need time. I think the Commissioners really need to check with the Department of Agriculture and find out, are there any of these little, i.e., quote, E.P.A., hooey-doopy strings attached once you've applied for this and so forth, so forth, so forth. Very seldom the federal government ever gives you anything that they don't ask something in return. Thank you, gentlemen. JUDGE HENNEKE: Charles, you had a comment? MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir. JUDGE HENNEKE: Please come forward. MR. YOUNG: Charles Younq. I'm a resident of Center Point and the City Secretary. I've heard no one today address the problems of Center Point but the Center Point City. No one has said there is another way of doing it. No one has come forward. We know U.G.R.A. has discussed it. They have a problem with funding, which I am sure that you're _. -.------n--__ ____- -___-._ r n 11 99 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 30 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 aware of. To even get funding in the amount of money that they will need for such a project, they're going to have to go to the legislature, and there's no telling how long that's going to take. What the City is has proposed today is something that can go forward today. To talk about putting this off while it's studied because of the stigma of Colonia is absolutely ridiculous. There is no way that our city is going to lose by having "Colonia" put in front of it if we can get three or four million dollars to give us a sewer system, which we desperately need. We have many houses in town that are flowing raw sewage in their yards. That needs to be corrected. This will correct those problems. We have problems with a lot of people that don't have good -- good processed water. That is a problem. We have first time users, many families, that would like to hook up to someone else. In this case, it would be the City. It would be good water. The $900,000 that Mr. Littlefield talked about for water will include a well or two wells, plus a tank, storage tank to store this water. It's imperative that the City of Center Point get these additions to our city. And, to put it off for one day is too long, regardless of how long it takes for the application to get in. Everyone here knows about the problems of sewage in Center Point. Everyone knows about the water in Center 95 r'` rte. r 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Point, including the mayor, Eddie Taylor. Mr. Weltner, who doesn't live in the city, is going to benefit from this, because we're including our E.T.J. to the extent that we can financially. And I -- I beg this body to help Center Point go after this funding immediately. To table it will gain nothing. Thank you very much. COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: Question here. They're out of money in this rotation? MR. LITTLEFIELD: This -- this fiscal year -- we started in October -- there were $6.3 million set aside for Texas. As of today -- I don't know how many applications they have, but in the past, they've used them up. So, I don't know if they have applications for $20 million, but the two or three years is what we shared with the citizens last Thursday night at the meeting, that we would normally expect this time -- this type of time. As far as the sewer plant size, the 222,000 gallons is -- is shown there on the 3.2. The size up to 250,000 gallons is when we add the Center Point North, so that's -- that's what the 250,000 gallon would serve. COMMI33IONER WILLIAMS: A couple other related questions come to mind. First of all, the -- Mr. Hesseltine mentioned extending this service to the football field facility, I believe on Stoneleigh; is that correct? MR. HESSELTINE: That's correct. i 96 ~"` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that cost included in the numbers that you have calculated. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Yes, it is. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: And the second question is, let's see if we can clear the record about this $6 per linear foot going from the collection pipe to the home. Is that true or is that untrue? MR. LITTLEFIELD: I had covered this earlier, that as the program stands today, there would not be any cost to the -- to the customer. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: As the program stands today. Meaning? MR. LITTLEFIELD: Meaning that this $3.2 million includes the line from the house to the street. In two years or three years, if -- if the Legislature or Congress changes or rewrites the program -- and there is some push and some question about the ability to use federal monies to get on private property, but right now it allows us to do that. In two or three years, that may change, and that would -- that would impact those costs to the customer. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess a question. And I don't mean to put you on the spot with this, but are you being paid to -- I'm sure you're not working for free, but I presume you're being paid by somebody, I presume the City of Center Point. If this grant goes through and this program 97 f'` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 goes through, is your company the engineering firm? MR. LITTLEFIELD: The way the program works through this federal agency is that there is no release of any funds until the project has been bid and awarded. So, with this program, the City did retain me last -- last Thursday night. But I would not receive any money until we have actually completed the application and put it out to bid, plans finished and the contract awarded. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But your company is the -- I mean, you have a financial stake in this? MR. LITTLEFIELD: Well, yes. Yes. But it's -- you know, if it drags out too long, it's going to be a devastating, you know, impact, 'cause i've got financing. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason I bring it up is that, I mean, it's -- you're clearly coming from one perspective. MR. LITTLEFIELD: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you're not -- you know, not totally unbiased. I mean, you have a certain point of view. I just wanted to -- MR. LITTLEFIELD: I'm in business. I'm a small consulting firm, and what I do is water and sewer systems. And I've worked with this agency fear over 30 years, among other agencies. COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 98 ~" i"' 1 Z 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: One other comment from the floor? Please, sir? MR. WELTNER: Hi, my name is Tom Weltner. I live in Center Point in the E.T.J., I guess, as it were. Just a couple of comments. I really wish that you gentlemen would consider some time for this issue. I know that U.G.R.A. and other water players are considering how best to serve Kerr County's needs. Why we've got to hurry up and make this decision today, going with one plan, I don't really know. I think maybe there's some vested interest involved. You alluded to that with the fees that Mr. Littlefield's firm will make from this project. It also needs to be considered, how do Center Point's independent plans jibe with what U.G.R.A. has in store for us? I thought we were still talking about how we're going to do this, not what we're going to do. And, we need to act in conjunction with the these different groups rather than try to go off our own way and possibly throw a monkey wrench into things. This may not be the best solution. Everyone agrees there needs to be a solution, but a regional approach would be much better than the small area that we're dealing with over in Center Point. COMMI33IONER WILLIAMS: Let me respond to Mr. Weltner's comment about U.G.R.A.'s overalll global plan for Kerr County. I think U.G.R.A. -- and I'm not speaking for r-~ 99 ,^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them any more; I used to. I think the basic position is we don't know quite who does it; we lust want to see that it gets done. And if someone steps up to the plate; i.e., the City of Center Point or an independent contractor or anybody or U.G.R.A., to put this type of facility in place, that will serve the interests of the people in the eastern part of the county, U.G.R.A. will sign off on that immediately. Certainly, they would want to know that additional hook ups could be made, and there's certainly -- we'd have to satisfy the discharge permit aspects. There's great concern about that, but they're not reserving to themselves, I guess, the -- that's what I want to say. They're not reserving to themselves the unique and ultimate right just to do it. They want to get it done, but anybody who wants to do it can step up to the plate and get it done. COMMI3SIONER LETZ: If I can make one response to that, I agree with what Bill's saying. But the other part of it is, though, that as components begin to get tied up or going somewhere, it changes the whole region drastically. I think that was seen when -- what's Shelton's place called? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commanche Trace. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commanche Trace. U.G.R.A. had a plan. Commanche Trace was going to be able to serve a fairly large area, potentially, and they negotiated with the City. And if the City does, in fact, do the sewer out there, 100 .^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it totally changes U.G.R.A.'s plan. So, I think as soon as these components do start falling into place, it does start -- really, we need to be very careful that we're covering the entire eastezn part of the County and the whole county, for that matter. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're absolutely correct. COMMIS3IONER GRIFFIN: And, at the same time, you have to balance that, though, with -- if you wait for the one big plant, somebody that's going to step up and say, "We'll fund it over the next 10 years, take care of the whole county," if you wait for that day, you may not ever get your sewer problem fixed. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: And your ultimate goal will never be achieved. JUDGE HENNEKE: My impression is that U.G.R.A. does not have any concern over this particular project. One thing we have to keep in mind is that U.G.R.A. does not intend to and has never had the purpose of being the retail operator. They don't want to own the line from the house to the sewer. They don't want to collect the bills, they don't want to go out and -- and service the individual lines. And, so, U.G.R.A.'s plans, the way I understand them, do not include running a line from the collection system to your house. And they've been very clear about that up front. MR. WELTNER: Many of the questions that have been 101 ,~-• 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 brought out here concern the specifics of -- of this plan. This is the first many of us have ever even heard of this thing, and it is important enough that I would think that it would deserve careful consideration. And that's my only -- JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we all agree that it deserves careful consideration, but I'm not sure that we agree that we're the ones who, necessarily, are the ones who should give it that careful consideration, because it is something for an incorporated part of the County. We have to take action in order for you all to submit the application, and beyond that, we have no role in the actual implementation of the solution to the problem. And I think no one denies that there's a problem. What we have here is -- is a -- one and only one of many possible scenarios for solving the problem. I think what we all need to stay focused on is to solve the problem. And, if I were a homeowner in Center Point, I think I'd be very inclined to look rather graciously on a possible solution that solved the problem and didn't cost me a nickel in the cost of actually solving the problem. Now, you may look at -- at property values and some aesthetic values, but when you're talking about your neighbor's sewer running across your yard, you may be inclined to look friendly towards the solution that -- that takes care of that problem. So, Mr. Flanagan, you've been deferring until now. 102 n 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 MR. FLANAGAN: I have, and I'd like it now, thank you. Members of the Commission, my name is Mike Flanagan. I'm a resident of Center Point. And I have to say, probably nobody's been as concerned about Center Point's image as the folks sitting over here. We're newcomers to town. We've worked hard to change the image of the town, and we're working at that constantly. And I have to say, all we're asking for is a little time. We'd like to talk to U.G.R.A. We'd like to see what Jim Brown feels, how this would dovetail with what anybody's plans are, and we'd like to also talk to the department -- the granting agency, because that's -- as it was stated, Mr. Littlefield has a vested interest in this project. And all we want is a little more time to -- time to look at it. Thank you. COMMI33IONER GRIFFIN: I'd like to pick up on something that Judge Henneke said, and that is that I think the Court's role in this is to do what the people of Center Point and their E.T.J. want to see happen. And, obviously, there's some differing opinions, based primarily on the ability to analyze what the impact may be and so on. I don't think it's -- we should qet in -- that we, the Court, should get in the position of opposing something in Center Point. I think we need to hear what they want to do, and if that requires a little time -- and particularly if we could continue the application process fox this one solution, that 103 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 maybe that's a Solomon-like way to approach this thing. That we wouldn't slow down the application process, yet at the same time, we could -- we could delay approval of the resolution as long as it doesn't impact. And if the consensus then is that this is what the citizens of Center Point want to do, we can sign that resolution at that point. That's just a thought that I'm getting out of all of this. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hearing Commissioner Griffin's comment, I think that's probably the avenue that we ought to approach. We do not want to take an action here today that will impede your ability to put your application together and so forth. You having said that's going to take the better part of six weeks to do that, there's probably not any compelling reason why those folks who need a little more information shouldn't have time to develop that. So, with that thought in mind, it would be my sense of the issue to defer this until the second meeting in February, at which time those folks who believe more time is necessary to ferret out information for a better way to do this can do so, and come back and tell us there is a better way. And if there's not a better way, come back and tell us that, as well. COMMI33IONER LETZ: I concur. Was that a motion? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Long-winded though it may be, that's a motion. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. ,~ --- --- __-n-r--- -_.-______- 104 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion has been made by Commissioner Williams to table this item until the second meeting in February, which is February 22nd. Seconded by Commissioner Letz. Any further discussion? I want to say that we can't listen to everybody and every individual in Center Point and make a decision on this. Center Point is an incorporated entity. It is a municipality with its own charter, and we have -- y'all have elected people. You need to talk to them, and we need to listen to them, as well as to you. But, I'll tell you right now that it's -- that you have a mechanism for addressing this issue within your own municipality. I think you need to look at that and take advantage of that as the first and foremost place for you to raise your concerns; however, I intend to listen to your elected representatives when it comes time to finally acting on this resolution. Any further discussion? COMMISSIONER LET2: May I make just one more comment? I think this is probably geared more to the press than anyone else in the room. I want to make it real clear, I mean, the -- this is nothing, in my mind, against proceeding with this. We just need time. It's really lust a chance to look at it a little bit closer. The plan looks real good. I mean, it's very rare to get a 100 percent grant. But, you know, when there is a 100 percent grant, you need to be very careful that you need to know what you're i^`^ 105 ,r'` ~''` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 getting, exactly. That's all we're doing. If this thing pans out and the citizens of Center Point want something, certainly we'd be in favor of it, but it's just a matter of -- the timing of it, I think, is a little bit rushed; that's the point. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to echo the Judge's comments. The solution is at hand, and what I want to hear on the second Monday or second meeting in February is, if anybody has any better solution to offer why the service is so badly needed in the eastern part of the County, come forward and tell us. JUIIGE HENNEKE: Any further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Motion passes. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Thank you very much for your participation. JUDGE HENNEKE: We will at this time return to the agenda and take up item 2.9, consider and discuss allowing Constable 1 to appoint a deputy constable. Commissioner Baldwin. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you. ,~- _ _ 106 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Basically, Constable 1, just like -- I hope they're still here -- there's' Glenn. Constable 1, just like Constable 2 and Constable 4, we're asking to -- for him to be able to appoint a deputy constable in that precinct, at zero cost to the County. There's no secret the reason behind that, and that's because of our Solid Waste program. When I -- when I arrived on the scene at Commissioners Court, I think this program was kind of already in the works. Mr. Holekamp, as the Solid Waste Coordinator designee, asked me to assist he and a grant writer to write a grant for the Solid Waste program, which -- and I did. And, we -- the lady wrote the grant and we took it to AACOG and got it passed and sent it to T.N.R.C.C., and it was approved there and came back. And, through this -- all of this last year, the -- every time -- it would occasionally come back through this Court for approval on one thing or another, and Commissioners Court approved it and went on. So, everything has been approved and everything is in place, and we felt like -- felt like that the best place for our -- we just felt like -- and I'll -- I'm going to back up. When we first started this thing, I had -- I had reservations -- serious reservations about it being law enforcement. And, I understand that the Judge has some concerns about that, although probably for different reasons. But, I -- my concerns were that I just simply didn't like the idea of a ~"` 107 ~'^ ~^`` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 police officer with a gun on is his hip walking up to my neighbors' house and telling them they have to move their car -- abandoned car in their yard, or their refrigerator or washing machine or whatever it might be. That bothers me. So -- and I expressed those concerns all through our talks, and finally was convinced. "Look, Commissioner Baldwin, it`s easier to get these grants if they are geared toward enforcement. The majority of the counties that are doing this type of thing throughout the state are moving into enforcement." Commissioner Holekamp will tell you -- and he may today, I'm not sure, but the program that he set up and the giant that we wrote is kind of a mirror of what's going on in Bandera County, our neighbors, which do it through their constable's office, and et cetera. So, basically, that's -- to shorten it, that's what we've done. We've gotten the grant. We've ordered the -- and we have a -- in that grant, we have a part-time Solid Waste person that is -- can be law enforcement certified, with the ability to wear a badge and have some authority to see that the laws of the State of Texas are fulfilled. We have a part-time employee, a pickup truck, and some things that that office would need. You know, I'm not sure, probably a computer and that kind of thing. We have ordered the truck; it's just a few weeks short of being delivered to us. 108 ~^^ 1 Z 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 lz 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 And -- but, in order to get that person, we -- out of the kindness of Mr. McClure -- Constable 1. Out of the kindness of his heart, he said, "Yes, I will" -- and he's never done this before. He said, "Yes, I will allow a deputy constable through my office in order to fit the need, fulfill the needs of this County," and so that's kind of the direction we've gone. So, I move we create the position of Deputy Constable in Precinct 1. COMMISSIONER LET2: I'll second it. Are you going to live through the day? That's my real question. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I've got a question or two on that, 'cause this is sort of -- hits me anew. Why would we put the county-wide -- tell me again why we would put the county-wide Solid Waste enforcement responsibility under a single constable? Why not at the county level? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is the county level. Mr. Holekamp is the Solid Waste Coordinator. In order for us to find a slot, we just simply chose the Constables' office, like most other counties are doing. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not the Sheriff's Office? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If that's what you want to do. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm just -- because he's going to have this person. He or she would have 109 ~`. .~'~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 responsibility county-wide, and would be -- as I understand what you're saying, would work out of Constable -- out of the Precinct 1. Is there a special reason for doing that it way rather than some other way? To be, perhaps, hired by the Court, this person could be hired by the Court or by some other entity within the County? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the Court couldn't carry a TCLOS license. We're not certified peace officers. We don't have the license for that person to operate under, and the constable does. JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't read the grant to require that the Solid Waste person have a peace officer's license. Can you explain that? COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I can't. I don't -- I don't know that it actually does. And I don't think I said that it does. I just said that -- JUDGE HENNEKE: You just said that the Court didn't' carry a peace officer's license. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct. Are you a peace officer? JUDGE HENNEKE: No. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Neither am I, so there's no way that we could -- we -- the grant is geared toward enforcement, where a guy can -- and the difference between the enforcement side of it, that is really a time frame. If N 110 /^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 we had a layman, such as Mr. Holekamp or myself, go out and serve someone for Solid Waste, his -- and what he does, he gets in his letter-writing campaign back and forth to these people, and we end up sometimes getting something done and sometimes we don't. Under a law enforcement move, that shortens that -- shortens that considerably. This person will have the authority to put little stickers on cars and trailer houses and those kind of things. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's more -- as I understand it -- and, you know, when we applied for the grant last summer, this was always what was going to be done -- was that anyone that Constable 1 put was going to be a law enforcement person. And I think -- and the reason was the authority that that gives that person to do it. I mean, there's a real problem with, you know, I guess, not having someone, quote, licensed. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, and I understand that piece of it, but I go back to Bill's question. Why wouldn't you have someone like that under, like, the Sheriff's Department or something, being it's county-wide? JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the grant is not just for someone to go out and tag cars and trailers. I mean, this person, under the grant, has to organize seminars, make presentations, attend training, and the law says that the law enforcement agency is the only authority that can impound 111 ,,-` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1T 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 abandoned vehicles. Either that, or you have to have a full-time County employee, salaried employee, whose salary is not dependent upon the fines and collections from impounding abandoned vehicles. The grant doesn't provide for a full-time employee; it provides for a part-time employee, but that means that then we have to rely upon a law enforcement agency in order to enforce any citations that might be issued. COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, ultimately, the Sheriff probably would be the enforcing arm if you have to go out and do it? JUDGE HENNEKE: If you have to impound a vehicle or a trailer or something like that, a law enforcement agency is the only authority that can do that, unless you have a full-time County employee, full-time salaried employee. COMMI33IONER WILLIAMS: Does the Constable fit the definition of agency, or does that defer back to the Sheriff's Department? JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Holekamp, do you -- would you like to comment? This is your department, so where are we? MR. HOLEKAMP: Glenn Holekamp, wearing the Solid Waste hat right now. I think everybody's pretty much correct on -- on the analysis of it. I think constables have the same jurisdiction as an agency, no different than the Sheriff - -T- _, 112 ~-- 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 or, like, the police does in the city. So -- so, really, when you -- when you talk about law enforcement, you can specify -- in the law of statutes, it says Sheriff or constable. The way I read it, it can be either one. But, one thing that has not been brought out is, the way we wrote the grant -- or the way the grant was written, it was mirrored after Bandera County, and they 3ust happened to have a constable that was interested in cleaning up Bandera County at that time. I think it's the constable over towards Lakehills. He took it upon himself to go after this grant, because they really never had anything going there. So -- so he kind of took the bull by the horns. So, when I got with the -- two of the committee people on the AACOG Board who -- with the help of Buster and these two individuals from the City of Kerrville that are on the Litter Abatement or Litter Committee -- I don't know the proper -- they indicated that if we mirrored after this particular grant, it would probably be more palatable for the -- for those people there to understand, accept the reason we chose. It would be real difficult to administer this thing. I'm going to say -- let's use, for an example, the Sheriff's Department. I don't think we would be able to say, Okay, we have this money, we have this grant money, I have this pickup. That deputy, he can only do this. He cannot -- he cannot serve a warrant, he cannot do this. In those 19 113 ~--~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hours, max, a week, this is all he can do. And he's got to report to Glenn Holekamp, Solid Waste, because I'm the only one that can administer this grant money by the terms of the grant proposal. So -- so, what I think is, when we talk about the mechanism of how it should work, I would think it would be difficult to do it through the Sheriff's Department. But, then again, nothing's impossible. I mean, if everybody agrees that's where it needs to be -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Glenn, what is your preference as to where the individual who fills the grant slot is housed? MR. HOLEKAMP: Housed? JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. Where does he -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He's got to have a computer and -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Does he? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. The computer's in place already. We have the computer in place; it's at the Animal Shelter, because that's where my department is. JUDGE HENNEKE: Did you -- do you feel that you should supervise this person? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 3UDGE HENNEKE: Okay. MR. HOLEKAMP: Because Litter Abatement, abandoned vehicles, is an issue that is -- we have, I guess, promised 119 .~^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 2: that we are going to -- and we have to bring data back to them as to results. So -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He could work for you, then? MR. HOLEKAMP: Pardon? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So this person could work for you, as well as the constable? COMMISSIONER LETZ: He will, in practice. MR. HOLEKAMP: In reality, he'll only be working -- he will only work for me, in practice. Otherwise, he can't get this money. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. MR. HOLEKAMP: I mean, he won't get paid, unless the constable has got some money that he wants to give him. But that would -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And let me interrupt you for just a second, Glenn, but it seems to me, then, that that's where it ought to be, because otherwise you get one of these dotted line things going where a guy is assigned here, but works for another guy over here and is paid by a third entity, and then when something doesn't happen, who gets brought to task? MR. HOLEKAMP: That's correct. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's just a supervisory responsibility; ought to be in line with pay. MR. HOLEKAMP: But what I need is the catalyst to - -T- 115 r~ /'` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 lI 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 -- to carry this person's license, of sorts, if you want to call it his -- the law enforcement thing, so he has the authority to carry the little red tags and slap them on a car, which gives a 98-hour removal. Right now, I've got a 30-day minimum with mine. JUDGE HENNEKE: That can only be done by a law enforcement agency. I'd like to hear from Mr. McClure as to whether he's capable of impounding the vehicles, taking care of the vehicles once they're impounded, doing the auctions, 'cause if he's going to be the law enforcement agency, he is the one who's going to go out and make the arrangements to have the car towed off and store it and auction ft, and to send out all the necessary things that have to be done. That is the responsibility of the law enforcement agent. And if you're telling me that the constable is going to be the law enforcement agency, then I think it's incumbent upon the Court to know that those functions are going to be satisfied, and in accordance with the law. COMMISSIONER LETZ: if i may on that, though, the Sheriff's Department serves as that function right now for constables. We all know the constables don't have staffs. They're one-man operations, I mean. And if Sheriff Kaiser has the same arrangement with this person, if he works for Glenn out there and she 3ust holds his license, I don't think there's a problem there. 116 ,rte 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we keep talking about having this person have a license, and I, myself, am not convinced this person has to have a license. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I'm just -- I think it would help, personally. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fred, let me ask you a question. What is the real holdup here? I mean, bottom line, the real stuff, what is your holdup? JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we're creating a scheme where we have -- we have on the agenda to hire a deputy constable. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, not hire. This would be absolutely zero cost to this County. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, appoint a deputy constable. We're to allow Mr. McClure to appoint a deputy constable. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the only thing on the agenda, actually. JUDGE HENNEKE: True. And there could be questions whether it's appropriate or not. But what we're talking about is letting Mr. McClure appoint a deputy constable who's going to be here. He's going to report -- he's going to be supervised by Mx. Holekamp, but yet Commissioner Letz is saying that the actual impoundment is going to be handled by the Sheriff's Department. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's what it -- JUDGE HENNEKE: The way it's handled now. So, 117 /" r 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 we've got a guy here, we've got a supervisor here, and we've got the enforcement mechanism here. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. JUDGE HENNEKE: And I am not sure that's an efficient way to run -- MR. TOMLINSON: I sort of know what goes on in Bandera County. The Sheriff's Office has nothing to do with it. I mean, they -- what -- if there's any impoundment -- any impounding to do, it's done -- my experience down there is that the property owner is responsible for that. JUDGE HENNEKE: If it's on private property, that's probably true. If it's something -- a vehicle that's on a II public street -- MR. TOMLINSON: And that has been -- the emphasis in Bandera County to is try to clean up private properties that -- that pose a health -- you know, a health problem to the community. And, so -- so from what I -- from what I am hearing is that -- in the reports from the officer to the Couzt, is that -- that the enforcer or the deputy, on his own, goes to individuals or problem areas and says, you know, "You have this amount of time to correct this problem." Otherwise, you know, he takes it to the J.P. court, and J.P. court has the -- I think, probably, has the authority to hear a case involving Solid Waste. So, I don't -- I don't think that, from what I'm hearing, the Sheriff's Department really 118 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 has anything to do with it. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, then, the question becomes, then, is Mr. McClure geared up to do what the constable in Bandera is doing? MR. TOMLINSON: Actually, the -- actually, the constable in Bandera didn't really have anything to do with it, either. All he's doing is furnishing a vehicle through which someone can have a license to -- to do that themselves. JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the way it's done in Bandera? MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, sir. JUDGE HENNEKE: So, it's not the actual constable in Bandera? He has a deputy that goes out? MR. TOMLINSON: He has a deputy that is solely responsible for that. JUDGE HENNEKE: Bill? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two-part question. So, if I understand correctly, then, what we're talking about here with regard to the Constable of Precinct 1 appointing a deputy is that this is a -- a means by which his law enforcement license is located and is placed. Then the next part of that question or comment, whatever it is, is are we given to understand Mr. Holekamp then intends to hire this individual? We're talking about two different things here; we're talking about appointing a deputy, and then we're ~'` 119 r~ ,~`~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 talking about, subsequently, someone else hiring this deputy to do Solid Waste work in accordance with the grant. Can I get an answer on that? Whomever. MR. HOLEKAMP: You're correct on both quesstions. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful. That's two for two. MR. HOLEKAMP: Two for two. That is correct. The reason is -- is we're -- on the grant, we have funded at a level of a max number of 19 hours a week. I'd prefer somewhere around 15 hours a week. I think that's what it's going to take, probably, to get it done, and I think this coming year we're going to see how much results we get as to when we go back, the possibility of another grant, or if some other entity other than my department wishes to go for a grant, they may, you know, at that time. But, I forsee it to be, yeah, approximately 15 hours a week. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, you would do the hiring and firing? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, absolutely. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You would do the hiring and firing, make the position specs, interview the prospects, and MR. HOLEKAMP: I would hope so, yes. JUDGE HENNEKE: So, then, it's your feeling that this person should be a licensed peace officer? _-. _ ___ --r- r 120 ,... 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. MR. HOLEKAMP: Because I have run into -- and the reason why, I'm going to use a little history. I've been doing this Solid Waste now for about approximately a year and a half, and I've been invited on properties a couple of times with -- I don't think the intentions were to give me coffee. So -- so, I really think that when you start talking from a law enforcement standpoint, to a certain extent, they're trained to deal with people like that much better, and better equipped than I am for that. So -- and I try not to be confrontational. JUDGE HENNEKE: How would you go about finding this person? MR. HOLEKAMP: Well -- finding this person? JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, hiring this part-time licensed police officer who, then, would hopefully be appointed by Mr. McClure to be a deputy. MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I would think that whoever they hire, if he's a retired -- which I would assume this is a retired-type fellow that doesn't need to depend on a whole lot of income, because it's so limited in the amount of workload. JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin is talking about you hiring him, 'cause he's going to work for you. How /"'` 121 r"'~ r r^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 are you going to find him? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How would you go about doing it? Would you advertise it7 Take applications? I mean, 'cause that -- if I understand from the grant, from what Judge Henneke is saying, is that there -- this has got to be a very computer-literate person, got to give seminars and other things that that grant calls for. Is that -- MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, they've got to be able to go to -- to work with -- and the way it was kind of planned is we would go to the schools and give presentations as to the functions and -- of Solid Waste, and try to educate, no different than we do in rabies control, and target the younger people. We're talking third grade, primarily, and younger as to the needs. Now, as far as the computer part of it, I think they have to understand -- to give us the data. We do have money in the budget -- the funding budget for clerical work to input complaints and that sort of thing. This was pretty much a field officer position. The other money in the budget was -- is some for -- is also in there for clerical support and administration of it. So, whoever it is needs to be somebody that has tact and has the ability to follow orders, you know, would be pretty much the criteria. ~ But, the clerical part -- well, of course, they're going to have forms to fill out, you know, worksheets when they qo a--- - -7-- _- -~- 122 /^ r^` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 out on a property and make an observation. We call it just a worksheet. They bring in a compliant form, they bring it back, and then we take it from there, and then put it into the computer, and we do the -- the certified letters to the people. And, of course, he's going to have to sign those letters. So, he has to be literate. As far as computer- literate, I don't -- I can't see him spending his time sitting behind a computer doing all this, because the clerical work is covered under the grant as a separate issue. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. The -- I mean, it seems like the question is whether this person should be a, you know, peace officer or not. I mean, basically, that's what we're asking. And the reason that you were -- or Mr. Baldwin went with the Constable of Precinct 1 is because it's easier that way? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically, have you asked the Sheriff? Or has anyone asked the Sheriff if she's willing to have an arrangement of an individual that she holds their peace officer license, but that same person would have no control over supervisory -- MR. HOLEKAMP: I have not. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, are you joking? That's what's behind this whole thing. She wants that person, and that's what this entire deal is. /~, 123 t"'` /'` /"`, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 26 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Has she said that? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She has to Fred, and Fred's talked to her. JUDGE HENNEKE: She has not said that to me. This is not what this is all about. I would ask you the same thing. What is this all about? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just trying do what we've been trying to do. I've made a motion to appoint -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Authorize. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To authorize the deputy constable, as simple as that, and try to give you some backup reason why we're doing what we've been planning for a year and a half. JUDGE HENNEKE: Has anyone been approached about (filling the position? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I think they have. I think, really, the proper way to do it is advertise for that person. We have talked to a retired police officer. JUDGE HENNEKE: Just for clarification, I've got a schedule here on the grant, and it says that the enforcement officer must attend education classes at T.N.R.C.C., and Texas Department of Health. Enforcement officer holds workshops with Kerr County Commissioners Court and Kerr County Attorney regarding Solid Waste law, conducts surveillance of existing dump sites, apprehends and 124 r. ,~-~ r 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 prosecutes violators. Patrol Kerr County, prepare educational information, and present programs at schools and civic clubs, and prepare and release information to the news media. Educate County law enforcement officers to provide additional manpower for Solid Waste violation identification, follow-up on notices and request that the County Attorney file charges in instances where property owners refuse to comply. That's kind of the scope of work of the person that, apparently, we're talking about. COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, the person needs to be a law enforcement person. Doesn't make any difference to me if it's under the Constable or the Sheriff. I mean, you know, that's my opinion, bottom line. JUDGE HENNEKE: We have a motion by Commissioner Baldwin to authorize Constable McClure to appoint a deputy. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I seconded that a while back JUDGE HENNEKE: Seconded by Commissioner Letz. The motion, itself, does not in any way pertain to the Solid iWaste Management function. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. ii COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could I raise a question, then? I think it does, because there is -- there are no funds in the budget other than the grant money to pay for that deputy, as it is proposed. So, it is tied. _r._ ----- _ _ . 125 ,~^~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I might ask Commissioner Baldwin to back up, then, and let's tie the two together if we're going to do that. And what I've heard here is that the request is that Constable McClure be authorized to appoint a deputy who will be recommended by Commissioner Holekamp -- by Mr. Holekamp, as head of Solid Waste, for the purpose of meeting the obligations of the enforcement officer under the AACOG grant. Is that an accurate statement? Or do you want to drop back or what? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I -- certainly, that's an accurate statement, but there are -- there is a deputy constable in Precinct 2. COMMI3SIONER WILLIAMS: Correct. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's is a deputy constable in Precinct 4 that does not cost the County anything. MS. NEMEC: Precinct 9 does. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Precinct 4 does cost money? So, it's -- this is not a magical, wonderful -- something floating around the air I'm trying to do. I mean, it's -- COMMI33IONER GRIFFIN: I think the -- JUDGE HENNEKE: What I'm trying to do is I'm trying get your motion to reflect that this person is going to do the Solid Waste, if that's what you want. If we lust want to authorize Mr. McClure to appoint a deputy constable at no i 126 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 cost to the County, then that's a whole different subject, but if we're trying to tie it to the grant, then I want your motion to tie it to the grant. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't necessarily want to tie it to anything. I want to maybe have the ability to appoint a deputy, and then if Mr. Holekamp, which is the designee of the County for Solid Waste, wants to hire that person, that's his business. COMMI3SIONER WILLIAM3: After having advertised the position. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Oh, yeah, I don't have any problem with that. That's good. JUDGE HENNEKE: But if Mr. McClure hires somebody that Mr. Holekamp elects not to use for the Solid Waste management, then where are we3 MS. NEMEC: The thing is that the deputies that have been appointed to these constables are working for them in their precincts. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. That's what I started to say. The difference is, in this case, we're -- we've got one entity doing the hiring and another entity -- one entity technically doing the hiring, and we have another entity that's doing the supervision. MS. NEMEC: I believe that's why the Judge wants to tie it back into there. a 127 /"`~ ~^^, 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You've almost got to tie those two things together; otherwise -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. JUDGE HENNEKE: Maybe I'm making this too complicated; maybe it is simply about appointing a deputy constable. And, if that's the case, then most of this discussion has just cost us part of our lunch hour. If that's so, then we're prepared to move on the motion that's in front of us, and maybe what we need to do is move on that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all convinced me why it needs to be tied. I'm open-minded about the thing. I just didn't see why it has to be tied to anything. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it is cleaner if it's tied, personally. I did second the motion. To me, what we're doing, basically, is we're authorizing or asking, really, the Constable of Precinct 1 to hold the TCLOS license of the Solid Waste employee that's going to be hired by Commissioner Holekamp -- or whatever you are now. Director Holekamp. MS. NEMEC: I think we're putting the cart before the horse here. I think Mr. Mr. Holekamp should hire someone, then come back to the Court and ask where the license is going to be held. I think it's becoming too complicated here. A' .. 128 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER SALDWIN: Usually when it's five or six against me, it's okay, but I see there's ten of y'all out there, so I will tie this to the Solid Waste program. That we approve Mr. McClure to appoint or create the deputy constable position that will be -- in turn, then, Mr. Holekamp can hire as the -- what do we call those things? JUDGE HENNEKE: Solid Waste Officer. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Solid Waste Enforcement Officer? Is that the -- MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you amend it or match your prior motion to that? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it has to be -- you have to advertise for that person to -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: So, this individual would just be an applicant at this point? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He may or may not be an applicant. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May not ever fill it. Just try to get it going. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I had one more question. We've talked an awful lot about Constable 1. Constable •"~ 129 .~^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 McClure, do you have any comments? Is that -- CONSTABLE McCLURE: Well, when I come here this morning, I knew exactly what I wanted to say, but that's been so long ago. When I was asked about this last November -- October, whenever it was, I -- I thought it was a good idea. You know, it just sounded real sensible to do it like we'd planned. But, since then, seems like it's turned into a -- a power struggle or something, which I'm dead against. If the Sheriff wants to handle this or if Precinct 3 downstairs wants to handle it, I don't care, you know. But they asked me if I'd do it, and I think it was a good idea. We're -- every one of us are employed by the people of Kerr County, all five of y'all and me and a bunch more of them, and our interests should be for the people, to save them money. And, lust because there is grant money don't mean it's free money; it's still coming out of our pockets. Hut, I think that we're pulling against one another by arguing. Somebody wants to do this, somebody wants to do that, and we're -- we're missing the goal. And ff it's going to cause problems, I'll withdraw my application for -- or request for a deputy, and y'all do what you want to. But, I think it's a good idea, and I think it's something that can save the people of Kerrville -- of Kerr County, the citizens, taxpayers, all the homeowners -- they may not vote, so I can't say lust the voters, but it's all a;. 130 /""~ /'~ s^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 the people that own property in this County and pay taxes; that's who we're working for. And this -- let's answer to our bosses, if that's the way to go, and I think it is. That's all I got to say. I just don't want to get into any squabble. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I appreciate that. And the thing that concerns me is we have this grant, we've been given money, we purchased the vehicle. We've got to move forward on it. We`re considerably behind now. If it's the consensus of the Court that we want to create a deputy constable position and let Mr. Holekamp find a qualified person, and Mr. McClure is willing to employ that person for purposes of the Solid Waste Management, let's move forward with that. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think Commissioner Baldwin mentioned -- mentioned it earlier, but it's important on most grants to maintain the integrity of the grant, no matter who -- where this position is placed, that that person has to be used solely for the grant purposes. Because if you put them on other duties than assigned, you know, have them off doing something else, you can blow the grant. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we can't tolerate that. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's got to be that that person -- I think that just goes without saying. But, it's probably -- I 131 r^. 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think, in the future, one thing I'd like to see when we go for grants -- and we need grants; government entities needs grants -- let's figure out in advance how we're going to follow through with the grants and how we're going to fulfill the requirements of the grants. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, we have -- the motion, as it stands now, is amended; is that right? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct, sir. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you have nothing further, I'm ready to move. JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion's been made by Commissioner Baldwin and seconded by Commissioner Letz. Any further discussion? All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. At this time, I would suggest we break for lunch. And -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that suggestion. JUDGE HENNEKE: -- be back at -- we have an Executive Session at 1:30. What's the pleasure of the Court? Do we want to try to be back, take a few items before that, or lust come back at 1:30 or what? COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1 o'clock? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Starting at 1:00. 132 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: We will reconvene at 1 o'clock. MR. WALKER: Judge, I have Mr. Markland here from Raba-Kistner. Should I ask him to come back, or -- JUDGE HENNEKE: We have adjourned until 1 o'clock. Buy him lunch. (Lunch recess taken from 12:15 p.m. to 1:00 p.m.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go back into session of this meeting of the Commissioners Court. I believe we're on Item 2.10, consider and discuss annual rabies drive and reduce County registrations. Mr. Holekamp, with a different hat. MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. This is -- and forgive me, I -- I assume a lot of times everybody understands that we do this every year, but there are some new members of the Court. And, what this is, this is a -- it's a program that's been annual in February for lots of years, and it's sponsored by the Texas Agricultural Extension Service. It's through their -- their Program Committee for Extension, Program Council. And it's the annual animal vaccination -- rabies vaccination program for Kerr County. And, what it is, is on Saturday, February 6th, at -- there are four locations in the County, the rural areas, Ingram, Hunt, Center Point, Cypress Creek and Turtle Creek, each one has a vet that goes to that site from 1 o'clock in the afternoon till 3 o'clock, and they vaccinate all dogs for 133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 $6. The -- the part that involves Commissioners Court is that, during this time, we -- we reduce the County registration to $1 per head, lust during this -- during this afternoon, and then the period of February 8th through the 20th, fox those that wish to go into the vets that are participating and have their dogs vaccinated and registered at that time. So, it's been a program we've been doing for years, and I wholeheartedly believe that this is one way of getting a lot of the animals from rural areas vaccinated and registered, which we really need to, from a rabies standpoint. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Glenn, is the County fee currently $1, or has it been more or less? MR. HOLEKAMP: It's $2 for neutered animals, $5 for nonneutered. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. MR. HOLEKAMP: But this way, it's $1 across the board Fox registration. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's great. I move we adopt it -- what are we doing this with this thing? MR. HOLEKAMP: We are doing the public announcement thing, and have some information to the newspapers and the radio media. ~"~ ;, 134 /'` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 ZS COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the rabies drive as proposed. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been moved by Commissioner Letz and seconded by Commissioner Griffin that we approve the annual rabies drive at reduced registration. Any further discussion? All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. And next we'll go to item number 2.11, consider and discuss possible office space in Ingram for Tax Office Substation and Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4. Larry? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You may remember that we had discussed -- in the last court meeting, as a matter of fact -- that I would get together with -- with Paula and Glenn and look at potential properties in the Ingram area where we might put this substation and combine it with the J.P. offices. We looked at several properties, several potential, and some we could almost discard immediately as either too expensive or ]ust not meeting the criteria, but we have now centered on one. It is -- it's about a block past -- going out 27, it's about a block past where Bill Ragsdale's -- the J.P. office is now. ~, 135 r~^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 It's in a building owned by Priour Construction, and it's -- so, we've all three visited it, we've discussed it. We think the price is very good, in that it's -- Bill Ragsdale now pays about $325 a month for that facility he's in. We will combine into this new facility with -- with both Paula's office there and Bill, and the total cost will be $400 a month. So, only for an additional $75, which is less than we had anticipated, considerably. Also, this particular building will require -- I don't want to say no buildup, but we don't have any major walls to put in or anything as we had anticipated we might have to. The wall layout and everything is good lust is as it is. The floor, Glenn thinks he would be able to -- to polish that up and it's going to look great. We've got restroom facilities. I have a question on that. Does that have to be A.D.A. Compliant? I suspect it does. And I see the County architect back there nodding his head. That's one thing, it wouldn't have made any difference where we go with that, but we need to think about that and how we're going to meet that and so on. This is all on one floor, and it's probably fairly easy to -- to do that if we make those -- if they are public restrooms. Now, that other -- other thing is that, being -- I don't know, but maybe we don't have -- on the Tax Assessor's side, we may not need public access to a restroom if we did the one that's on the J.P. side, if you follow my 136 r ~^-~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 drift. Because that could serve -- serve as both, perhaps, for the public. I don't know what the ramifications of that are. But, anyway, we have a proposed lease from the owner that roughly is what we've talked about here, but we need to negotiate a -- a lease. And what I would like to move today, make the motion on today, is that -- that, with assistance from Paula and myself, that we authorize Glenn to -- primarily, because he's going to have to look at it from a facilities point of view, but really all three of us to negotiate that lease, and that when that's negotiated within the terms we've specified, you know, which is basically $900 a month -- I think it's a two-year lease? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Two-year lease, option to renew, et cetera, we'll get all that negotiated and go ahead and authorize Judge Henneke to sign that once we have negotiated it within the confines of those terms. COMMIS3IONER BALDWIN: You mean lust authorize all I of that today? And it comes about -- COMMIS3IONER GRIFFIN: As we can negotiate within those parameters; $400 a month, with the right kind of -- who's responsible for capital improvements or maintenance. For example, if we have an air-conditioning failure, we don't want to get stuck with that. But, the -- that ought to be -r - -T ,~- __ - _ _ 137 /"` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the owners' responsibility, et cetera. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have one question, Judge, of Larry. Do you know whether or not the previous Court allocated any funds for building out? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, they did. And, did we find out -- MR. HOLEKAMP: Permanent Improvement or leasehold -- leasehold. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that's in the record. It was -- MR. HOLEKAMP: I asked Tommy, and he did indicate yes, it was. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I knew they did, but I didn't know exactly where that was. COMMI3SIONER LETZ: It was $10,000. JUDGE HENNEKE: What's currently budgeted for both offices, fox the J.P. and the substation? Don't we have money in this year's budget for rental for both offices? COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not for the substation. MS. RECTOR: There wasn't anything set aside -- well, it was going into Permanent Improvements or Contingency, but there was not a dollar amount because we didn't have a place and we didn't have an amount. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Within the $10,000 or so -- and I know I recall that that was the number, or thereabouts 1 A 138 r~ r` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 -- I think we'll be able to do all of this and not spend that much money. I'm not going to speak for Glenn till he gets into it, but -- 'cause there are some maintenance items that have to be taken care of, and we've qot to build some counters and all. But Glenn seems to think we can do that well within the budget. MR. HOLEKAMP: Do you want me to just -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. MR. HOLEKAMP: In the preliminary review of the building, I think our major expense right now is we've got to replace a couple-three doors that -- that are not -- are not going to be suitable for security of the building. There are other issues, like some of the bathroom areas that need some, maybe, faucet changes, that sort of thing. We're not talking about -- they're functional as-is. We need a water heater, but I already have one that we can move in there that's already currently in the system here that's not being used. And, i really think that -- from a dollar standpoint, I do not think it's going to be that expensive to -- to get that building up to speed, to accommodate both offices and be a very presentable building. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's going to be very nice. I think there's a lot more room. The J.P. will have a separate courtroom, not one that's open to the rest of the world. He'll be able to close the door, qo in and have a I_ fi 139 /~ .--~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 court session while the rest of his office is functioning as it -- as it might. So, it's going to be a pretty good arrangement. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm very familiar with the building. Very nice building, good building. MR. HOLEKAMP: It's rock veneer. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rock veneer. It kind of stands alone by itself there in that block, where you can kind of stand out and be a stand-alone facility. It's going to look good. And, this is -- you know, this $400 and all this thing that they do is very typical of the Priour family. They've been friends of this County for many, many years. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The reason I would make the motion that I make today is that he's got -- the owner has another party, in particular, that's very anxious to get into the building, and we think at that price, in particular, we'd like to be able to do it as soon as we can. Due diligence in the lease, obviously, but that we not have to wait until the next Court session to come back again, and that a motion would be that -- that Judge Henneke could sign it once we have negotiated it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second your motion. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin has moved that the County accept a lease from Priour for this building, not r 1 i. 140 r-- 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to exceed $400 per month for two years, with the renewal option at $450 a month. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. COMMI3SIONER GRIFFIN: is that what it was? MR. HOLEKAMP: Two years it's $400, goes to $450. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. JUDGE HENNEKE: With the terms and conditions that are acceptable to the players, and that the County Judge be authorized to execute such lease at such time as it's negotiated, seconded by Commissioner Letz. Any discussion on that? All in favor? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do have one thing. I hate to even bring this up, but since the A.D.A. thing came up and the architect is in the audience, Mike, on leased space like that, do we have to get those restrooms into compliance or -- MR. WALKER: I think do you, but I need to check one more time to make sure. But I -- MR. HOLEKAMP: The building should be grandfathered. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't think -- COMMI3SIONER GRIFFIN: We'll look it up. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Z don't think anybody will be using them but County employees. COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have to do it with County a, 191 ,•^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 employees too. That's the problem. (Discussion off the record.) JUDGE HENNEKE: My concern is that we have the public coming in, particularly for court. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. JUDGE HENNEKE: To the J.P.'s office. I think it would certainly be in our best interest to at least have one restroom which is A.D.A. MR. HOLEKAMP: I believe it will be a minimal situation. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I do, too. I don't think it will require a lot. MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't think it's going to be a major issue with that particular restroom configuration. COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to try to do that, I agree. JUDGE HENNEKE: The motion's been made and seconded. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed? (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 2.13, consider and discuss design plan and project cost for Flatrock Lake County Park. Mr. Letz, one of your favorite topics. /"`` 142 ,~'~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of my favorite topics. Judge, lust because, looking at the time, we have an Executive Session coming up, would you object if we went to 2.19? JUDGE HENNEKE: What's the pleasure of the Court? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That'll be fine with me. JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Then we will skip down to 2.19 and return to 2.13 later. 2.19, consider and discuss services by Raba-Kistner, consulting engineer for asbestos abatement. Mr. Walker? MR. WALKER: Thank you, Commissioners. I have with me today -- in the absence of an owner's representative, we've -- we knew that we had to go ahead and initiate some action on getting the asbestos abatement, since it was in your original report that was done back in, i think, '95. Raba-Kistner did that report. Mr. Darryl Markland of Raba-Kistner is with is us today, and I asked him -- he acted, actually, very quickly on our request and brought us not only a proposed agreement for their services -- understand, they're not the people that actually physically take it out. They are -- they are your consultants that you hired before, and I assume that you'd want to keep using them, since they're most familiar with it. And then they actually assist you in getting an abatement contractor. And they acted quickly, as I said, and they even have - -~- _ __ .T._~.,~ .__ w .. 193 ,~^~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 some prices for you on abatement, if you want to go ahead and it's technically possible to review that today. I don't know if it is or not. I do have a copy of their proposed agreement and their services, which I lust received today. And, I don't know if you'd feel comfortable reviewing that at this time, but I did take the opportunity to invite Mr. Markland to come talk to you today about that and answer any questions that you might have, because that's really something that's -- that's out of our purview. That needs to be done by a consultant qualified to do that. So, if I may -- Mr. Markland, if you have anything you'd like to discuss? MR. MARKLAND: Just -- if I might, I can give you lust a brief rundown of what the project is. JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. MR. MARKLAND: It involves the removal and appropriate disposal under the -- the existing T.D.H. and E.P.A. laws and regulations of approximately 1,000 square feet of laid-in tile, ceiling tiles and Transite tiles, and approximately 500 linear feet of soffit that runs around the building that is also the -- is asbestos-containing Transite. The normal procedure is that the T.D.H.-licensed consultant for that size project must design it, prepare a scope of work or a statement of work. A licensed asbestos abatement consultant removes it in accordance with the rules and ,.^. 149 ~"^~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 regulations of T.D.H. and the E.P.A.; and they are, in essence, one and the same, because T.D.H. does have promulcy now with E.P.A. The consultant has an individual on-site collecting air samples during the removal, and there is, again, a licensed T.D.H. air-monitoring technician to insure that it is removed in accordance with all of the rules and regulations, and the controls of the fugitive fibers are such that the Court does not become liable, and that the disposal -- packaging and disposal of the materials in the end point goes to the appropriate place, which is a landfill that is licensed to receive asbestos-containing materials. With an approaching date of 8 February being the key to the project, as far as construction is concerned, we took the liberty of bringing two contractors up to get you two bids. We did, in fact, get two bids Friday. I have those that we can offer to you. They are contractors that we have worked with. We can vouch for their financial stability and for their quality of the work that they do in the asbestos arena, and they are are licensed by the State of Texas for T.D.H. to do asbestos abatement. The critical key in timing is that the T.D.H. requires 10 working days' notice before you can start removing asbestos, and that means that the notice -- the notification to T.D.H. must be postmarked today if we are to start abating - - - -~ 145 r1 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 or removing the asbestos on the 8th of February. If that is a critical date, then I would ask that you look at the bids that we've received. If that is not the most critical date, then you can -- we can still submit those for your review, but it is not as critical that you accept those bids, although I do think that they were -- you will find them to be appropriate bids. There's only about $320 between the two bids, which is an indicator that they were all looking at the same statement of work and they were all looking at the same project. Our fee to do the items that we've mentioned here are itemized on the bottom of the first page, and we would propose that we would be on-site with a licensed T.D.H. asbestos air-monitoring technician and project manager for the monitoring of the abatement at the time that it occurs. I'll be glad to answer any questions that you might have. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is all the asbestos? MR. MARKLAND: It's in the ceiling of the annex. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Above -- MR. WALKER: Part of it you see right under the lip of that upper panel right there. Those are the Transite panels. MR. MARKLAND: That's the soffit. MR. WALKER: And the ceiling he's talking about is all the lower level that isn't inside, all those lay-in ~"`` I Al 146 1"` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 panels up there. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That are above the County Clerk and the Tax Assessor right now? MR. WALKER: No. No. No, the first -- the lower level. The lower level, the parking level. COMMI3SIONER LETZ: Oh, the parking -- okay, I see what you're talking about. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. Thank you for asking that one, 'cause I was wondering where is this stuff, since we have demolition going on upstairs. is this one of these kind of lobs where we have to create negative air chambers and dress people up like spacewalkers to remove this stuff or what? MR. MARKLAND: In this case, the workers will be wearing a disposable suit, and they will be wearing a half-face respirator. They will not be generating a negative pressure work area, because the material that we're going to be taking out is -- is what is defined as nonfriable, meaning that it cannot be crushed, so we're we're not really creating a dust hazard. One of the purposes of the on-site monitor is to make sure that they do it in a manner that they don't break it up and make it a fziable material. if they do that, then our on-site monitor will have the authority to stop them, make them clean it up, and generate work practices that will preclude that from happening. But, it will be barriered /"~ ~' 197 r" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 off with barrier tape. There will be sufficient controls enforced to prevent any debris from getting outside of the immediate work area, and that will be controlled and disposed of as part of the asbestos debris at the end. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: I asked that because I went through the process once in my life, and I really don't want to go through it again. MR. MARKLAND: If it were friable material, the answer would be yes, but in -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many days to accomplish the work? MR. MARKLAND: We are programmed to go and they bid on starting on the 8th, being completed by the end of the 12th. JUDGE HENNEKE: How much are the bids? MR. MARKLAND: The one bid was $16,200. JUDGE HENNEKE: That shoots that. MR. MARKLAND: Second bid was 516,536. JUDGE HENNEKE: We have to bid it. Mike, what is the -- I mean, can the contractor be working without this having taken place or not? MR. WALKER: The contractor -- at first they said that they didn't want to come on-site until -- until this portion was done, but they have acquiesced and said, you know, that there could be some overlap; that they would go r /`~ 14 8 1 ahead and come on the 8th, as we discussed ~ If 2 . we re contemplating further delay I'd hav 3 , e to get back with them, but right now -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it s over $15,000. Unless 5 somebody has a relative exemption, I don't thi k 6 n we have any alternative but to send it out for bids. ~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The bids that h 8 e said he has do not satisfy the -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We haven't solicited the bids 10 . We cannot accept those. We'd love for them t I1 o bid again, don't get me wrong, sir. We want the qualified people but w 12 , e cannot accept those as -- 13 /^ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tomm our A Y , uditor, has 19 something. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: If it has - - if it has 16 an effect on the public, or a health hazard i th , ink there's an exemption 17 to -- to that rule. If _ - for certain things. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think you're right but I' 19 , m not sure that this is a health hazard sin ' 20 , ce we ve - - we've -- ' it s been there for 25 years or whatever it i ' 21 s. I m not sure that we can -- that anyone here would be real comfortable i 22 n saying it's a health hazard, to not do th e public bidding. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I~Ve got a 24 question. It's not along those lines. Four or five 25 years ago, you did something -- r'^ 149 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MARKLAND: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- similar. Is this a different area? MR. MARKLAND: This is a different area. We took out some friable asbestos in the crawl space and in some other areas. It was insulation on piping that had deteriorated to the point that it had fallen in the soil and it was being ground into the soil. But it was an entirely different package, yes, siz. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wonder why -- of course, it's not a question any more, but I was lust wondering why we didn't do it all while we were there. You know how those former Commissioners Courts were; they never did a thing. JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone else have anything to comment? Anyone have any discussion? I, personally, don't see any way around -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What's the fastest way -- are there accelerated ways that we can put out a formal request for bids? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The County Attorney's here. Let's find out. JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we have the ability to send them out. You set the timetable for response -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. JUDGE HENNEKE: -- in light of the situation. /" 150 /"~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMI3SIONER GRIFFIN: I think the statute says something about a specific number of days, 10 days or 14 days or -- we'll have to research that, but I think we've qot to bid it. I don't think there's any way we can get around that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-oh, they're whispering. (Discussion off the record.) COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with the Judge. We've got to bid it out. Let's do it as fast as we can. JUDGE HENNEKE: Ms. Bailey, do you have any thoughts about the minimum amount of time we can put something out for public bids? I know I hit you with this cold, but you don't -- MS. BAILEY: Tommy just indicated to me that you're talking about bidding out the asbestos removal? JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. M3. BAILEY: That may be one of those professional services that isn't required to be bid, because it's so specialized that you're entitled to go for issues -- JUDGE HENNEKE: When we did it several years ago, what did we do? Do you remember, sir? Did we put it out for public bids? MR. MARKLAND: Yes, it was bid. MR. WALKER: Excuse me. Y'all bid it. MR. MARKLAND: We did it the same way. Yes, we ~^'~. i. 151 .~-- ,~'~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 brought some people up -- or some contractors up, but I don't recall what the price was. MR. WALKER: I don't know, either. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You brought them to us; is that correct? MR. MARKLAND: That's correct. We dfd it in the same manner that we proposed to do this. MR. WALKER: She had a question for you. MS. BAILEY: Did you do it on R.F.P.'s where, basically, the Court went out and asked for proposals? MR. MARKLAND: No, we didn't -- in the first one, we prepared a statement of work specification, provided it to some contractors that we were comfortable with in terms of their financial stability and quality of the work, did a walk-through of the project with those contractors, had them present bids. We presented those bids and our recommendation to the -- to the Court, the Court selected one, which was the low bidder, and we proceeded to -- to remove the asbestos with the low bidder. And that's what we were hoping we could do this time to meet the 8 February deadline. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we can do it, that's. great. Who do we go to for a ruling? I mean, we're going to have to get some legal opinion on this through the State that we can do that. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, by the time we get legal ;. 152 r'` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 opinion through the State, we could bid it and have the work done, probably. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No doubt. JUDGE HENNEKE: I just don't see any way around going out for bids. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's lust go out for bids. JUDGE HENNEKE: Timing may be affected, but -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Makes sense. COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we had the 14 days -- so we're really looking at, probably, three weeks. The problem that does come is that the longer we delay the construction time -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the -- our bid from Stoddard comes in jeopardy, whether they'll stand by it. MR. WALKER: They haven't given me any indications that they're going to back out of it, but I -- you know, they're -- you know, they might get a little nervous if it doesn't start pretty soon. JUDGE HENNEKE: Might just have to rebid the whole thing. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. JUDGE HENNEKE: What's your pleasure? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I think -- what would be the first steps required to get the R.F.P.'s out? ------__ ---- T- 7~~ --- 153 ~^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'd have to prepare specs, send out bid requests, set a deadline. MR. MARKLAND: The specifications that would be required would be included in the package that we had presented to you today for our portion of it. Then it would be advertised at -- at your choice, wherever you choose to advertise it, and whatever the time element is required for you to keep it advertised. Issue the specifications to the contractors, have them render their proposals to the Court, the Court then selects one, and at that point in time, we're still 10 work days away from starting the work, because the T.D.H. requires 10 work days before you can start actually removing the asbestos. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can the County Attorney, excuse me, give a -- MS. BAILEY: I was just going to suggest, if you wanted to make an order, something along the lines that you would -- you would go out for bids unless we can provide you with information that leads to you believe that it doesn't ~~ need to be -- that it doesn't need to be professionally bid. I'm just not prepared to answer the question right now, but I have a pretty strong feeling that we might be able to get this kind of service without going out for bids. If that's the case, I don't know if you want to defer -- if you can defer making this decision until -- /'~ I Mi 159 /'` ~"` i-- 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMI3SIONER LETZ: Tomorrow? MS. BAILEY: Yeah, I'm in court all day tomorrow. I don't have time to research it tomorrow if I couldn`t find it this afternoon. But Wednesday, maybe, unless I can get David -- I can get David to look at it. Maybe we could have an answer tomorrow. COMMISSIONER LETZ: If not tomorrow, we've got to repost it. MS. BAILEY: We'll try and get you an answer by tomorrow. {Discussion off the record.) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, these guys have been to school in Austin. No more school. COMMI3SIONER WILLIAMS: We learned a lot. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They come back arguing about everything. JUDGE HENNEKE: We need to -- my suggestion is that we consider engaging this gentleman and his firm to -- within the scope of work that they've laid forward, including instruct him to go ahead and prepare specifications for bidding this project. And, in the event that the County Attorney comes up with an exemption, that we, I guess, then have a special meeting to consider the bids that he's brought with him, which is -- COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: That's good. - -_ --- I 155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: come here today. He's - opinion, we definitely w only question is whether to us or whether we need process. -- real nebulous, but I think he's - we definitely want -- in my ant him to supervise the work. The we can act on the bids he's brought to go out for more a formal bid /"` COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that a motion? JUDGE HENNEKE: If someone would make that motion. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So move. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have is that -- I mean, we can clearly hire for engineer services without going out for bid. JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we hire Raba-Kistner to hire -- go out for asbestos bids, we can hire them; it doesn't make any difference to us. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We have to bid their services. COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not for engineers. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, that's -- yeah. That's not what they've proposed to us, though. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both the firms that bid, ~^ ,. 156 ~^ r e''~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 are they San Antonio firms? MR. MARKLAND: Yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: I ask that because, if we have to advertise, there's no sense in advertising locally if there are no -- no contractors here that do that kind of work. MR. MARKLAND: I'm not aware of any in Kerrville. We've never worked with any of the abatement contractors here, if there are -- nor have we had any bid on projects. JUDGE HENNEKE: In other words, there aren't any locally. Motion has been made that we engage Raba-Kistner Consultants, Inc., with regard to the asbestos problem, and ask them to begin work immediately on the bid package, unless the County Attorney determines that bidding this protect is not required, in which case we would then probably call a Special Meetfng for the first available opportunity to consider the bids that the firm has already solicited. Is that accurately restated? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should we get more specific? And she is going to come back with an answer Wednesday? JUDGE HENNEKE: No, Tuesday. MS. BAILEY: I'll try to get one Tuesday. COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I thought you said Wednesday. MS. BAILEY: Well, Wednesday would probably be more __. --r------ - _ _-~--~-----.__ i 157 r..,, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 reasonable, but I don't want you to have to repost it. If we can qet an answer tomorrow, we'll gust get it. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any -- it was moved by Commissioner Griffin and seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. Any further discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. All in favor, please raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. We appreciate your time. At this time, we have an Executive Session posted. and I see -- i saw Mr. Prislovsky here. MS. BAILEY: He's here. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Andy's here. JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, Commissioners Court will go into Executive Session. I anticipate we will be 15, 20 minutes at the most. Mark, if you will wait outside, we'll get right back to you, please, sir. (The open session was closed at 1:40 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) JUDGE HENNEKE: We are back in open session. I believe we were on 2.9? COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2.13. JUDGE HENNEKE: 2.13. Let's move back up on it, +. 158 ,~-~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 get you going. Item 2.13, consider and discuss design plan and project costs for Flatrock Lake County Park. Mr. Letz. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Too many plans floating around of what this park is going to look like, hopefully, some day. Basically -- there's copies out there. Hexe's another copy for the other end of the table, a revised plan. Where we are, everyone's aware that the grant with Parks and Wildlife was declined, which now means that the amount of money we have for the park is basically what the balance of the L.C.R.A. grant is, which is $180,000. I asked Groves and Associates, Walter Heard in San Antonio, to come up with a new revised plan and cost estimate, and they're willing to do that much at no cost. And, I think from this point forward, if we use their services, there will be a fee attached to it. But they did this for us lust because, you know, they were handling it for us and it's the right thing to do. I think everyone has the agenda package. A number of -- it's -- the schedule comes up 5299,800, and then another $28,800 in administrative fees, which is -- that amount, 528,800, is what Groves and Associates would charge if we were to spend 5194,000 and ask them to design and coordinate construction. They certainly have no problem if we want them to do a little piece of it, but not the majority of it -- of, you know, negotiating -- they get paid on a percentage of the _ ,_~ ~._ 1 __ L- 159 1 total amount that they oversee. i~ 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But, in the actual park plan, I think you can see there's water, electrical, and sewer hookup, a minimal amount. Probably those are a little bit too conservative; $3,500 for water, $5,000 for electrical, and 54,000 for sewer connections -- I don't know that we could do it that cheap, but they seem to think we could. The roads and parking, those are asphalt. I think we can probably cut that quite a bit by going with seal coat and/or just a base, like we did recently with the Ag parking lot, reduce those sums. But we certainly do need some parking, some roads built, especially -- we need the roads built over into the new portion of the park to qet the access -- I don't know how you describe that. Does everyone know where the park is, on the Court? The part to the east, if you go around that little Swap Shop and around there, there's access there, but it's a very poor road right now. The actual, I guess, recreational facilities that Walter Heard felt that we could afford were listed. The picnic units -- that's 12 concrete picnic tables on concrete slab. Now, I told him I thought that was a high number. He said those benches cost $1,000, the tables cost 51,000, and the slab's going to be about 51,000. He says he doesn't think we could save much on that. Still, I think that's a little bit steep. The pedestrian bridge, I think it's a very reasonable ~. 160 r'` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 amount. That is prefabricated -- pre-engineered, fabricated metal walking bridge. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Where? COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would cross Third Creek. It's pedestrian -- where it says "Pedestrian Crossing." One of the problems -- and that's probably, in my mind, one of the most important, if not the most important things for the success of the park, is we need to be able to get people from across Third Creek, so we need a bridge. A pre -- like I say, a prefabricated, engineered bridge that would get across there. It is -- we'd have, you know, not for vehicular traffic at all. It would be for walking and bicycles. There'd be some barriers in the front of it. The lake access fishing was listed as 592,000 to put a -- it's listed on there, I think, as the -- actually -- yeah, it is. The lake access and swimming and fishing, yeah. It's a -- a pier out into the water a little bit, and then stabilizing the shoreline, so you can have ingress and egress out of the -- the river. And that will primarily be made of concrete and wood, something that would withstand flood -- floods when they do come up and go across there. Again, that's something that we have to look at the actual amount, but we felt that that's going to -- it will cost that much with the concrete. Two sand volleyball courts, minimal amount of lighting -- and, of course, a minimal amount, as ,- a 161 ~'` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 well, is $3,500. The big problem that I had with the design, and I asked them about it, was that one of the things we wanted was a running trail there, and he left that out completely. And that was because of the cost, when I talked to him about it. I've since talked to our Road and Bridge Department. They feel that we could -- if you went with an 8-foot-wide seal-coated track or running area, one mile is going to cost about 590,000. And there are -- you know, i talked with Leonard Odom. His recommendation is, certainly, to at least use stabilized base close to the river portion, but, you know, the rest of it could be lust base material. It doesn't, probably, have to be seal-coated. We could cut something off of that price, depending on what material you put there. Initially, we probably could just clear a path and just stabilize the base on the lower part and, you know, use on-site caliche material for part of the other. Money's going to be a big concern. So, that's kind of where we are as of now, and it's just a matter now of we need to get going on it, decide if we're going to use Heard and Associates -- Groves and Associates for any additional work, or if we're dust going to do it in-house. I think we can certainly do a ma3ority of it in-house. Road and Bridge Department could oversee a lot of this and help us. Probably could use some volunteer efforts ~. 162 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 on the design side, maybe from some of the local engineering companies. I just wanted to get it on the agenda so we can get moving. i think, of the areas that are listed, the picnic units are important. There's also barbecue pits. They're included in the $3,000 per unit -- almost $3,000 per unit. I mean, I think that is important to have. The bridge is important; we need to have some sort of access. And I think some recreational activity, a frisbee golf course and sand volleyball are important, and I think we should do as much of the track for a running area as we can. Even if we can't do any of it, at least get the trail put in, and we can go from there. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What are the source of funds for this? Is it all -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 100 percent -- the $180,000 that we have is 100 percent from L.C.R.A. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: L.C.R.A. COMMISSIONER LETZ: L.C.R.A. grant. And they are aware that we're not getting the Parks and Wildlife money. They are aware that we're currently at the point where we're going to do something out there, and hopefully utilize all of their funds. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This area designated "Future Park Development," is that the area that currently r..., ,. ~~ 163 ~^^~ P'' 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 has a lot of Road and Bridge overflow, or unused materials and stuff in it3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, that's County-owned. Just -- it's not part of this, really, right now. So, that's, you know, the direction as to how to proceed. And I think the other component that we need to get involved -- I know some of the residents in the area have been concerned from Day 1 about the park, and we need to have a -- a format with community input as to what the facility looks like and what is actually done out there. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do you see the maintenance of the park being handled? COMMI33IONER LETZ: i think there are -- probably the best way to handle it, I think we can divide up the maintenance of the facilities. I think, probably, I'd like the talk to the City about an interlocal agreement. They do have a Parks Department. The mowing and things of that nature, I think we probably -- Road and Bridge Department, I think -- I need to check the legal aspects of that, but i don't -- I mean, I don't think this should be a problem. They certainly do work for the Ag facility occasionally, and this is really no different. But, from the actual -- and it may be easier to contract the whole thing with the City, since we do not -- I am not in favor of creating a Parks Department for one park right now. We may get to the point, ~. 164 r r-^~ /'~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when this is completed and we look at what's going on at Ingram and in Center Point, where we need something down the road. But, at this point, I would be pretty much more in favor of visiting with the City about an interlocal agreement using their -- their individuals. JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Hollimon, do you have a comment? MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir, if you don't mind. I would like to extend an offer from the Adult Probation Department to volunteer the services of our Community Service Program to assist you in any way in the park, in the initial building of it and the maintenance and upkeep of it. If you would like to meet with us, we'll be more than happy to provide all the community sezvice papers that we can provide you. We also can even, possibly, buy some equipment for use in maintaining the park. So, I would welcome the opportunity to meet with the Court and discuss that. And what we have to do is be realistic about what we can expect from the community service workers, but we will be able to provide you with many, many hours of free labor. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Great. I think during the -- certainly, the cleanup phase, you know, one of the first steps before we develop or approve a final plan, there's dust a lot of brush that needs to be cut and cleaned up. And that's something that the community service workers, I think, . 165 ~, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 lz 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 would be very, you know, invaluable in helping us with that portion of it. JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we have to ask the question, where's the other $14,000 or $20,000 going to come from? Because we have $180,000 from the L.C.R.A.; none of it can be used for anything but sticks and bricks. Do we have any funds set aside for any other improvements? COMMI3SIONER LETZ: No, we don't. And at this point, I would like to, you know, probably primarily get with Road and Bridge Department and have them look at these numbers and, you know, possibly get -- I think the two areas that we might need some assistance outside are the pedestrian bridge -- I think something like that has got to be done right, 'cause of the flooding down there. And, the other area is the -- the swimming area. I mean, I think that will possibly take some real design as to what will work and what will be resistant to the flood. And those two areas, I'd really like to probably visit with Groves and Associates and have them give us how much is it going to cost for you to do these two items? And not have them proceed, just give us a bid, and we'll put that back on the agenda. The balance of it, certainly, the parking lot, the roads, and the -- the track and the picnic units, and, you know, the -- the sand volleyball courts and those things, frisbee golf course, if that gets put in, I think we can do .. 166 r 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that with our County employees, whether community service or Road and Bridge or something, you know, along that line. You know, some maintenance doesn't have to be done immediately; it's not like it's a great rush, and get new numbers. And, the roads and parking are, you know, $70,000, almost a third of this, and if we can come in with a lot lower cost through Road and Bridge, that will eliminate that. And, i really don't -- the only money that we may be able to tap into for some of this -- if we did, I would not be in favor of using a whole lot of it -- I believe, is we put in -- Buster, help me, or Tommy, help me -- $900,000 in that -- out of that tobacco settlement we set aside? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Four. COMMISSIONER LETZ: $400,000, that the intent was to use for permanent, county-wide type improvements of infrastructure in nature. I think this qualifies, but I think there are other projects that are probably, in my mind, of a higher priority for that type of money as a one-time money that we set aside. But, you know, the small amount of -- that I would, you know, see using for this, but not a whole lot of that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: Like the difference between $180,000 and $199,000? COMMI3SIONER LETZ: Right. COMMI3SIONER GRIFFIN: So, in essence, what we've a 167 ~'^ r 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 got, then, is sort of a design costs program right now of $180,0007 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can probably squeeze this in. JUDGE HENNEKE: I certainly have no objection to Jonathan taking this and going to Road and Bridge and bringing it back at such as time as he's got a better concept of design cost, if everyone else is comfortable with that. We can table this for today. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the main thing I lust want to say is that, I mean, the swimming area and running path are the -- probably the two that are probably the two priorities. Maybe a volleyball Court. Frisbee golf, that's fairly inexpensive; I've seen other towns that have that. I think it gives kids something to do out there. Those are the things I that I think are the priorities for the facilities out there. Okay. I'll be getting with Road and Bridge. JUDGE HENNEKE: Do I have a motion, then, to table this until such time as Commissioner Letz is ready to bring it back? COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: (Nodded.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Williams. Second? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: (Raised hand.) *. 168 r-~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Second by Commissioner Griffin. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed? (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. JUDGE HENNEKE: I think at this time, with the indulgence of the Court, I'd like to go to item 20, which is consider and discuss approving contract for renovation between Kerr County and Stoddard Construction Company and authorize the County Judge to sign, because they've been very patiently waiting their turn. Any objection? COMMI33i0NER LETZ: No. JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Walker, you're up. MR. WALKER: Thank you, Judge. I have put -- I was perhaps a little bit confused about what the Court approved before the 1st of the year concerning acceptance of the bids from Stoddard. Apparently, all the previous Court agreed to do was to accept the bids the way they were at the amount that they were, but that it still needed to come back before Commissioners Court to authorize the Judge to sign the contract. So, I -- I have furnished the Judge's office a copy of the contract. There is one minor change that we had to make -- and I just got this information this morning -- in &. 169 ~. r^ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 order to reflect the -- the bids, and that was to nail down the percentages of costs -- or percentages of overhead and profit that would be put on for the cost for any change orders. And those came in at -- it was ill-defined on the bid, and they proposed 15 percent for work performed by the contractor's forces, and 10 percent for those of a subcontractor. And we find those to be reasonable within what the market is doing nowadays, and so we would recommend that as the only change. That's the second item. It's numbered No. 1 there, but it would be No. 2 on that amendment sheet. And, that would be the only thing that we are -- the only thing that we would make to the contract that was submitted to -- the Judge's office, and Tom Pollard has reviewed it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mike, so the first one, we delete? MR. WALKER: No. The first one was on there before. That was already on there. The second one should be numbed No. 2 under Article 37, etc., etc., the percentages there. And, other than that, it's ready to sign. I understand that probably what you'd want to do is send it to them first, and that's the way it was done in the past, and then come back for the Judge's signature. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any comments or questions? I ~. 170 /^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we need a Court order to do this? COMMISSIONER LET2: I move we authorize the County Judge to sign the contract with the addition of this one amendment; is that correct? MR. WALKER: Yes. Could I also get you, perhaps, to consider adding the issue in a Notice to Proceed letter, which our contract calls for, for February the 8th to the contractor? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Pending signature of the contract -- MR. WALKER: Yeah, pending everybody's signature. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's included. JUDGE HENNEKE: We have a motion by Commissioner Letz. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Second by Commissioner Gziffin to authorize County Judge to sign the contract with Stoddard Construction as amended, and to issue a Notice to Proceed letter to proceed on February 8th. Any further discussions? All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you. w. 171 f ^. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 a 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. WALKER: Does anyone have any other questions about construction and what's next? Okay, thank you. JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 2.14, consider and discuss proclaiming January as School Board Recognition Month. Mr. Baldwin? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Governor Bush declared January as School Board Month and sent us a proclamation, and we changed to it fit our needs here in Kerr County. And, I'll read it to you; it's very brief. "The mission of the public school is to meet the diverse educational needs of all children to empower them to become competent, productive contributors to a democratic society and an ever-changing world; "Local School Board members are committed to children and believe that all children can be successful learners and that the best education is tailored to the individual needs of the child; and "Local school board members work closely with parents, educational professionals, and other community members to create an educational vision we want for our students; and "Local school board members are responsible for ensuring the structure that provides a solid foundation for our school system; and "Local school board members are strong advocates for public education and are responsible for communicating the 172 i"~ r-. ,~"~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 needs of the school district to the public and the public's expectations to the district;" Now, let it be known that we, the Commissioners Court in Kerr County, "do hereby declare our appreciation to the members of the Kerr County School Boards and proclaim the month of January 1999 as Kerr County School Hoard Recognition Month, and I urge all citizens to loin us in recognizing the dedication and hard work of local School Board members and in working with them to mold an an education system that meets the needs of both today's and tomorrow's children." The Honorable Fred Henneke, Kerr County Judge. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we adopt this proclamation. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion has been moved by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz that we adopt the resolution -- proclamation. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Resolution's adopted. And thanks, Buster, for bringing that to our attention. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, at the last School 1 4 1T3 ,~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 Board meeting -- I happened to be there, and we kind of did the same thing up there. I kind of told them we were going to do it and thanked them all. JUDGE HENNEKE: The next agenda item is 2.15, consider and discuss the new Juvenile Probation Department Supervisor. Mr. Hollimon? MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir. Thank you, Judge, and good afternoon. I'm here today to discuss with you the salary for the new supervisor we're hiring for the Juvenile Probation Department. And, to give you the bottom line, it's not going to cost the County any more money. The Juvenile Board has extended an offer to Kevin Stanton, who is now Chief Juvenile Probation Officer in Matagorda County, to come here as the Assistant Chief. He will be paid at the rate of $90,000 a year, which is right in line with -- just a little bit lower than the supervisors in the Adult Probation Department. Currently, the two supervisors in the Adult Probation Department are making $43,000, and $91,000. Mr. Stanton comes to us as a very, very experienced and well-qualified individual, and we fully expect to give him a heavier workload and the largest share in running the Juvenile Probation Department than what was done in the past. We're going to do this by restructuring some budgets. Currently, in our County budget for this yeaz, the Juvenile Probation Officer's salary is listed as $32,288. Obviously, ,~ a; 179 .''~ r"'` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 this is going to $40,000, so there is an increase in salary. We need to explain to you how we're going to come up with that without costing you any money. Linda Rich, who was the previous supervisor, has been gone now for approximately three months, so that means that there has not been any money paid out of this line item for, actually, a little bit over three months. There is currently a balance in the salary portion of this budget of $28,271.31. it will cost the County $26,667 to pay Mr. Stanton at the rate we've offered him. That's $1,609 underneath our balance. The other two line items that will be affected by this are the FICA and the retirement. FICA will come out at $556 under our current balance, and retirement will come out $931 under our current balance. 30, we will have, at the end of the year, a total expense of $2,592 less than what we currently have budgeted for the salary of the supervisor. In the next budget year, we intend to switch this salary., over to the State budget and put one of the other Juvenile Probation Officer's salaries into this budget so that we can maintain the same level in our budget next year that we have in it this year. In other words, we want to get a good guy in here that can do some work. We want to finagle it around so it doesn't cost the County any money. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Howard, I'm not hearing exactly that. Help me lust a minute. 1 1 i 175 ~. ,~'~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HOLLIMON: Okay, sure. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're moving the Probation Officer's salary -- present salary is $32,288? MR. HOLLIMON: Well, actually, it -- in this budget it is, yes. There's -- right. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're bumping that up to $90,000? MR. HOLLIMON: Right. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then next year, you're taking that $90,000 person and moving them under the State system? MR. HOLLIMON: Right. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very wise. And then you're bringing in a new person that plugs in where? MR. HOLLIMON: Well, what we're -- it's not a new person. We're just going to switch a smaller salary from the State budget over to the County budget. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What? MR. HOLLIMON: So, we're not going to hire a new person for this budget. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. So, there will be a change. Will that person then be at the $32,000 level? MR. HOLLIMON: No. No. No, that -- I don't really know what it will be; we'll have to wait till we work on the /'` I fi 176 ~. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 budget, but I don't have anyone else in the department that will be coming close to that. So -- COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: It's less? MR. HOLLIMON: It would be less. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Less. Okay, cool. JUDGE HENNEKE: How much is Mr. Stanton making in his current job? MR. HOLLIMON: In his current job, he's making 593,000 annually. JUDGE HENNEKE: Does he have any relatives that entice him up here? MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir, he does. His family is from Fredericksburg; they own property over there, and the only reason that he applied fox this job is because he wants to get back to the Hill Country. It's been his desire to qet to Fredericksburg, and this is about as close as he can get and stay within his line of work. And, we fully anticipate, like I say, moving him into doing a much larger share of running the department than what Linda was doing, and maybe even, at some point in time, easing him in as Chief and have me concentrate strictly on the Adult Department; let him be the Chief of the Juvenile Department. But, that's to be decided in the future. Currently, we do anticipate having him work under me, but to have a larger portion of the workload, simply because .__ _ a s . 177 ~~' ,•-. 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 he's qualified. And, like I say, we -- we want to get someone in here that will do us a good iob and have a good Probation Department. But, its understandable that Commissioners Court would not want to pay a lot of money, so that's why we agreed to reschedule things. And, I think -- like I say, I think we can -- we can work it out so it doesn't cost the County any more money, and still we're going to get somebody that's very well qualified and we're going to get them at a salary that's reasonable and decent so that he -- he plans to stay. JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have one question. MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we know that the State will allow to you swap these two positions? MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir, that's our -- that's our decision. The State lust gives me X amount of money, and they -- they approve what we're doing. Actually, once the Juvenile Board approves of it, then the State has nothing else to say about it. It's a matter of paperwork. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? Judge Ables, Judge Prohl, and Howard and I interviewed three finalists for this iob, and Stanton is very well qualified, very eloquent, very committed to his iob. He has two children, and his ~^ ~, , 178 /'~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 accomplishments in Matagorda County include starting what seems to be a very successful boot camp program for juvenile offenders. So, we're looking to him for some innovations. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does he have kids that play football, by chance? JUDGE HENNEKE: He has a 15-year-old; could be close. We don't know. I'd entertain a motion to approve the salary level at $40,000 for the Assistant Juvenile Probation supervisor. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 3o moved. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin. Any further discussion? All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. MR. HOLLIMON: Thank you all very much. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moving right along, in the interests of time, I think I'm going to pull 2.16, which is the Census 2000 Participant program. We'll take that up next month, hopefully with fewer time constraints. 2.17, consider and discuss necessary steps to implement a 3-year budget I 3. . 179 r ,~"- r^` 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 review process. I put that on the agenda. I believe we've all talked about this in different public forums, that it's good fiscal management for us to institute a program where we look forward at least two years into what our spending needs are going to be at that time. I think we all recognize we can only allocate funds a year at a time. We must balance the funds that we receive with what we intend to -- to spend. But, there's certainly nothing that says we cannot look ahead a couple years and try to get ahead of the curve and manage our future needs so that we don't ever come up on a need to have any sort of extraordinary budget shortfall, which we'd have to make up in ways that wouldn't be palatable to us or the taxpayers. So this, generally, is really designed to encourage some discussion as to what we need to do and how we go about accomplishing this by this -- hopefully, by this current budget cycle that will be upon us in May and June. So, after that brief introduction, I'll certainly open it to comments or discussion. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Having worked these kind of systems before, I just know that there's some reluctance sometimes for people to be enthusiastic about doing this, because they say, "I can't predict two years downstream." Well, you may not be able to predict, but because you're a good manager, you can certainly make your best educated guess as to what's going to happen to your budget. ~.. 180 /" ~''~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We're not asking you to predict C.P.I., because you do this in current-year dollars, but predict that if you know you have an expenditure -- if there's a road-grader that you know is going to have to be replaced in a couple years, you put that in the -- you put that in the budget now so that we can look at it in a planning sense, make sure that we're doing it in the best possible way; lease, buy, or whatever, and give you a chance, then, to -- for the person who is inputting that budget to define -- start defining that now, rather than having to wait until the budget year that it's up for -- you know, it's do or die. We can't grade a road if we don't have a road grader or whatever. And, it gives you a chance to start arguing the budget. And those two "out years," so-called, are planning budgets. They are not when you approve it; you're approving it as a planning budget. The only thing you can do by statute is approve the year that we're doing the budget for, and that's by statute. You could have -- you could do a 10-year budget plan if you want to. And I think that, after a while, everyone begins -- not only those of us on the Court who have to judge on the budget, but the department heads and elected officials actually will benefit, because ft's protection for you and them as well. Because what happens is -- is they can forsee maior expenditures, that they can go ahead and start saying, Hey, r"`• r _ ---- z. 181 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 two years from now I've got to have this, because this one's going to wear out, or We're going to have expanded services required, or whatever the case may be. And start advocating that budget well in advance. And then, if we come up with everybody needing a whole bunch more money in Year 3, we can back off and say, Wait a minute, we're going to have to do some finagling; we're going to have to move somebody up or push somebody back. We can't dump it all on a budget that's three years away. So, anyway, enough said. From my point of view, that's my speech, but I really like the system, working it from both sides, both the budget approval side and the budget input side. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've been a strong advocate of it all along. I recognize that the impact of the -- of the request to the department heads and elected officials falls in the first year; that's the hardest part. So, if you can get past the first year of crunch, of having to do a budget you want to live under, plus the planning for two years, thereafter it becomes significantly less onerous to do that. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because -- and if I may just add one more thing. Because what happens is that, then, that next year, where you've already got a two-year planning budget out in front of you, you start as the base line for /'~ I i. 182 i- r~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 the budget on that first planning year. So, you've already done some advocacy, you've already got some plans in mind, and you can -- the person making that budget input can come '~ and say to the Court, Hey, I've had that in there for a year, you now, and I've told you this is coming up. So, it's good for the budget input side, as well. it's not just a thing to make it easy for us. COMMIS3IONER BALDWIN: Well, the only thing -- comment I have is one of the positives, I see, of this type of planning is that it sharpens all of our skills, not only us up here at the table, but the elected officials and department heads. They would have to sharpen up to be able to really take and start really managing. I'm not saying that they don't, but what I'm -- I don't want to put off the wrong vibes here, but I just think we all have room for some improvement, and to sharpen those skills, to be able to look down the road a little bit. Planning in county government is unheard of. It is unheard of because of many different reasons. But I really think -- I mean, this excites me, because John and I have been kind of hammering at it a little bit as we qo along. And I'm not going to speak for him, but I'm certainly excited about it and ready to move forward with it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all pretty much said everything. I agree, i think we need to do it. I think the .. 183 /~ ~"', 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 only thing I will -- you know, i see three elected officials in the audience. I think we need to, you know, be willing to -- to work with them or have Tommy work with them the first year to help make sure it's working, make sure they understand what we want. I think the more and more things -- with computers and other technology and big-ticket items that are getting bigger and bigger every time, we really need to start planning for some of these big purchases. We know a lot of that stuff is going to be outdated; we already know when we buy it, for the most part, and we start planning to get that into our budget cycle so we don't come up with too much at one time. JUDGE HENNEKE: Would any of the elected officials like to comment? Barbara? Jannett? MS. NEMEC: I think Buster sent around a memo some time back asking for a 3-year budget, and I submitted one to him of things that I thought I would need within three years. 30, I'm kind of familiar with it. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can also look at this as just two other columns on the spreadsheet; make your best guess on what that line item's going to be for the next two years. If you -- and it's -- and going through that process is a very good one for all managers, I think. M3. RECTOR: That's all it's going to be, is just a guess. /"~ 184 ,~'~ r^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 2_ COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Best managed -- MS. RECTOR: As far as dollar amounts, there's no way you can estimate, because the cost of our basic needs every year increases, paper goods and that type thing. Our vendor's prices go up, and that's -- you can't ever tell what's going to happen there. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: I think the theory, Paula, is to apply the inflation factor after you've done your piece. We lay the inflation factor over it later, 'cause we don't know that. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Current prices for this year. And then what you do is, you can take either -- when you see what the real C.P.I. is, or you use any factor you want to for the next year; you lust bump everything up by that percentage, and that should be the first cut at your budget. You say, "Where do we stand? Where do we got to start managing that?" JUDGE HENNEKE: It allows us to get ahead of some legislative problems. Take a ridiculous example like, say that the Legislature passes a law that says anyone who's over the age of 65 who requests transportation in writing to the County Clerk must be provided a ride to and from the polls. Well, then, that gives Jannett the opportunity to go, Huh7, and then sit down and figure out how many people there are over 65 in the County, make an educated guess as to how many I I ~. . 185 ~. ,•'` 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 of them would write in and request transportation, find out how much it would cost to rent vehicles and drivers to do that, and put it in her budget for next election cycle, rather than coming in on the year of the cycle and going, "What do we do now?" It's designed to make us all look forward, and we have to look forward up here as well as the people who, as Larry says, do the budget input. 30, where I would like to end up with this is I'd like to have a couple of volunteers to work on a budget sheet, submission sheet, as well as some guidelines, two volunteers from the Court, and to do that in conjunction with input from our department heads and elected officials. 30 -- COMMIS3IONER BALDWIN: I volunteer Bill and Larry. JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we let them volunteer? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, come on. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll be glad to. COMMI33IONER WILLIAMS: I'll do it. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Be glad to help. And, by the way, you mentioned the -- you mentioned guidelines. That's probably as important a thing in the process as -- as anything. Because, for example, the Court may specify in what's called Budget Guidance, for those out years, you can assume a 2 percent real growth because of expanding, and that's a guess that we have to make on what we see happening ~, . 186 r"~ i'^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to population and having more services required or whatever. So, there's a little bit of guestimating on our part, too, so we put out this Budget Guidance. You've got a sheet of paper, probably no more than that, that says, Do it in current-year dollars, current prices, or it's assumed in Year 2, 2 percent real growth ox whatever, and then it's in your court to come back with. 30, it's a good process and it -- I think it will help everybody. M3. RECTOR: Well, and it will also be a learning process fox the Court. COMMI33IONER GRIFFIN: Absolutely. MS. RECTOR: To see where our needs are. COMMI33IONER GRIFFIN: Exactly. M3. RECTOR: I was opposed to it at first. JUDGE HENNEKE: Budgets identify needs. Paula, one of the things I that i came away from this seminar with is training. This will be a way that you can project your training. If you know someone's likely to retire and you're going to put someone new into the position and they're going to have to go to school in another year, you put that in. You do a little 3ustification. Now we've all learned something, and you've been able to upgrade your ability to make sure your employees are on top of everything. So, I think I heard a volunteer from Commissioner Griffin and volunteer from Commissioner Williams. I think I'd like to _ ¢.. 187 /`• 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ask you all to have this available -- let's target the first meeting in March. Is that -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. JUDGE HENNEKE: -- optimistic? Is that doable? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. JUDGE HENNEKE: And then try to have something back to the Court that we can massage after you've had a chance to look at it with some of our department heads. So, all right. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. JUDGE HENNEKE: The next, and believe it or not, final item on the agenda, consider and discuss a plan for reallocation of reserve parking places during renovation of the courthouse annex. One of the things that we just did a few minutes ago was to authorize a Notice to Proceed letter to our contractor for February 8th. This means that, effective February 8th, probably all of the below-grade parking will be gone. What I've thought about doing, and the reason this plan is in here, is to allocate the parking places that are off the corners of Main Street -- corner of Main Street and Sidney Baker, and Main Street and Earl Garrett -- for elected officials, department heads, and a few unallocated but reserved parking places for officials. For instance, I don't think we should reserve a parking place for Judge Wright, but there should be one available when she comes in. 188 ,~-~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The question is, how many do we allocate? Do each of the Commissioners need an allocated, dedicated space? Because we're going to be faced with this real quick. And another, I think, possible side effect of putting our places there, if you will, those appear to be the prime places for the postal workers and the construction workers, and they may be loathe to park in a space that is reserved for the District Clerk. Because I'm quite certain that the District Clerk would report that, if someone was in her space. I'm not picking on Linda; I'm just using that as an example. 30, I lust throw that out as a possibility and open it up to discussion and comments. COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment is that, as I mentioned to you, from a Commissioner's standpoint, I don't feel I need a spot. I think if we lust had, you know, of the -- if have you two or three or four official spots, whenever the Commissioners are here, they can use one of those or find a regular spot. I'm not here all the time, obviously, and I don't think most Commissioners are here all the time. I'd rather give those spots to the public. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I don't need one for me. JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That'll be fine. I think we can try that, and if it doesn't wozk, we can always come back ~. , 189 .~^ r-- ~", 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and revisit this. We don't have to cast it in stone. COMMI3SIONER WILLIAMS: We'll put signs up to indicate what is reserved? JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Allocated and so forth? JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, absolutely. And I'll have to visit with Glenn, with the Court's indulgence, and see whether it's easier and cheaper on him to stencil on the curb or whether to put up signs on a pole. Really, quite frankly, I would lust as soon leave that up to him as to how he would like to accomplish that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all have any comments? Tommy? Barbara? MS. RECTOR: Will there be anyone available to -- when this thing starts off, to enforce it a little bit? JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. MS. RECTOR: Because we know what's going to happen. JUDGE HENNEKE: This is -- this could only work if there's some enforcement attached to it. And, you know, the Sheriff has indicated to me that she will cooperate in running down license numbers and names of people who are parking where they're not supposed to be and -- M3. RECTOR: Well, and my office has the same access for -- I µ. 190 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 30, there is going to be an enforcement mechanism. I'm not sure, we may have to pass an order regarding towing. We will have to post signs saying, If you parked illegally and your car is removed, contact X Y 3 Z at this phone number. I think the first few times we do that, we probably won't have a problem thereafter. But, yes, I mean, this only works if we're willing to take the next step and say, yes, it will be enforced, and -- and we regret that we have to do this, but we have to do this in order to reserve our ability to come here and serve the public. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I realize -- JUDGE HENNEKE: These are not the prime spots, in my opinion, which is another reason I've chosen them, along those corners. COMMI33IONER WILLIAM3: I realize that cost and manpower is a consideration, but signage would be, in my view, more preferable than stenciling on the curb. That's an easy excuse for someone to say, "Oh, I didn't see it." There's a sign looking them right in the face, and it's a whole different matter. JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't I ask you, in your capacity as Maintenance liaison, to talk to Glenn, and -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That'll teach you. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We own a sign maker. 191 ,~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER LET2: You just started before I did on that; I was getting ready to say the same thing. But, I think, you know, what they could do, Bill, is, you know, put two signs on each end and a chain across it with -- hang a couple off of it. You could -- these are blocked off. You don't have to put a sign for each spot, just block it off. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: One of the -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, the signage is far more effective, especially when something's new like this. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My only question is, how many -- how many parking spots does each office get? JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, they get the department head. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One? JUDGE HENNEKE: And if they wish to give it up to someone else, they can do so. MR. TOMLINSON: We could issue everybody an orange cone. COMMIS3IONER BALDWIN: An orange cone? Tommy, you've been in Bandera too long. So, what other -- what other people have parking down below besides the actual elected officials? MS. PIEPER: I have one department head of my office that does. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That department head is going to have to park over at H.E.B. and walk down here, is w_ . 192 o"'~ ~`, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Z9 25 what I'm -- I'm just trying to figure it out. JUDGE HENNEKE: The department head probably gets here early enough that they won't have a problem. MS. RECTOR: We have designated spaces for some of our employees, like I had two additional spaces against the wall if my employees wanted to use them to park down there. But, they've always parked out here. It's lust too difficult sometimes to get in and out of down there underneath. JUDGE HENNEKE: I have a hard time giving places below the elected or department head level, because we are taking places away from the general public. MS. RECTOR: That's fine, because we never use those other -- JUDGE HENNEKE: The elected officials who are in and out of here daily need their own space. Helow that is a bit difficult; I'm not sure where you draw the line. So, my proposal is it's only department heads and elected officials. And, if the Commissioners don't feel they each need a specific spot, I think we'll end up with about 16 designated spots, 11 or 12 with a specific department head on them, and four or five which will be official reserved places.- M3. RECTOR: What about the business people that park over on this side? There's a lot of business people that work right here on Earl Garrett that park right where you're talking about reserving. -r-- -r'~-~----- u 193 r"" 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: i sent a letter to the Downtown Business Association asking them to tell their employees that we need their cooperation in not parking there. I think this is all part of the -- of the greater scheme that we're going to have to come up with an enforcement mechanism. And, my intent is to ask the Maintenance Department, through our Maintenance liaison, to take down some license tags of people that are there three days in a row, very early, and let's find out who's parking there and whether they work at the Post Office or work at 3chreiner's in the construction work, or whether they work at one of the downtown businesses. Give them an opportunity to correct their ways before we actually have to resort to enforcement. But, if it's going to work, it's going to have to have some follow-up, and I don't think we'll have any problem accomplishing what our goal is eventually. It will take a while. COMMI33IONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think we could declare it Solid Waste and put our new constable on it. Let me ask one question. A concern that I have is the Sheriff bringing in prisoners for District Couzt. I know they have -- I think she has three or four of those underground parking spots down there that are designated to her, for her office. But, there's one right up next to the door so that they can just simply pull up there and then go up the back way to come up here, for security reasons. And, you know, I'm sure 194 n 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there's other reasons. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I'll visit with her and see if she needs a place for prisoner transport, which is -- I'm not sure how she's going to get into the holding cell any more once they start this construction. It's a mystery to me. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know, either. JUDGE HENNEKE: The elevator has to remain in operation, but -- you know. If we have to put one of the last spaces along the line here, for instance, for Sheriff's van only, we'll -- you know, we'll do that. I think that's kind of an unusual exception, but I'm glad you pointed it out to me, because I really wasn't -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is a concern. Imagine bringing 12, 15 prisoners through the front door, trying to work through a crowd here. COMMISSIONER WILLIAM3: I have a question that goes to enforcement, Judge. Axe we planning to issue either mirror hangers or dashboard cards or stickers that identify the cars that can be appropriately parked? JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's something we'll have to do, is each one of us will have to probably give to the Maintenance Department the license tags of -- of the vehicles that are authorized to use any specific parking place. For instance, that allows Jannett, if she wants to designate her r"` ~. . 195 /"~ 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 vehicle or her deputy's vehicle, in the event that she's not COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The sign will say Authorized Parking? JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it will say Authorized for County Clerk. We'll know Jannett's license tag, and if she's parked there, everything's fine. If she's not parked there and another car is there, and it's one that she has designated as authorized to park there, then we don't have a problem with that. That way, we'll allow the flexibility, when the department head must be away, the person who stepped up to those responsibilities can also have the wonderful additional benefit of a guaranteed parking place. I probably should entertain a motion authorizing me to designate up to, say, 16 parking places as official parking places for department heads and official use. COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3o moved. JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second, with a question. Where'd you come up with 162 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I had -- I had calculated 20 with all four Commissioners getting their slot, and so, if we back off of that, we're down to 16. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could I make a suggestion? If you would be willing to reword the motion, say that you ,,'"^~ ~: , 196 l" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 ~^ 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 are authorizing designating an appropriate number, and don't tie it down to anything. That way you don't have to come back and revisit this. JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll accept the motion. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to second that, yeah. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 'Cause that way we don't have to come back and revisit if we're one slot off. JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been moved by Commissioner Griffin and seconded by Commissioner Baldwin that the County Judge be authorized to designate an appropriate number of parking places for elected officials or department heads. Any further discussion? Boy, am I going to catch it for this. All in favor, raise your right hand. (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe that completes the agenda. I'll remind everyone we have a workshop on 911. It starts in approximately seven minutes down at the County Court at Law. Thank you all. We're adjourned. (Commissioner's Court was adjourned at 2:53 p.m.) r ~: , 197 r^ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 1T 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 C E R T I F I C A T E STATE OF TEXAS ~ COUNTY OF KERB ~ The above and foregoing is a true and correct transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioner's Court of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of February, 1999. JANNETT PIEPER, County Clerk BY: Kathy Ba k, Deputy County Clerk Certifie Shorthand Reporter ~ f ~~. ~. . ~,t.;~ (.cl~-~-e- r~ ~~ ~y 7$ v ~ I" ~ ~~ ~ ~~ '/~/~ / /v//l 1 { . i ,~ r ~ ~ i~. ~, ~ 92 s- .~-~ i-- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 much. JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak on this item, either from the audience or from -- Mr. Young, Charles Young? Do you want to defer to Mr. Harvey? Mr. Harvey? MR. HARVEY: Gentlemen of the Commission, I was at the last council meeting. JUDGE HENNEKE: Would you please give us your name? MR. HARVEY: I'm H. H. Harvey, resident of Center Point. I was at the last meeting. Many of the statements that have been made to you today are different. My record here shows that we're talking about plant size. They quoted at the public hearing it was 222,000. When it was quoted here today, it was 250,000. They failed to tell you that there's legal action taken about running sewer lines up to the houses. That was -- they did bring that out at the hearing, but they didn't bring it out to you. If this is the case, then everybody will pay $6 per foot to get the sewer run to their house. Our mayor's house is 900 feet away; her bill will be $2,400. 30, there's -- not all of the story is about -- fs being brought to the eye. I asked them at the meeting how long this would take. It would be at least three years. There are no funds available at the present time. We'd be into the next fiscal year, and it would be three years before they did anything. That was their estimate.