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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Special Session
April 26, 1999
9:00 a.m.
County Commissioners Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas 78028
PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, County Judge
H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 9
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I N D E X
April 26, 1999
Visitors' Input
Ms. Calcote
Commissioners' Comments
Commissioner Letz
Judge Henneke
1.1.~1583.'rPay bills
1.9,~,,~L Approve and accept monthly reports
2.1.tf837Resolution endorsing UGRA water planning effort
2.2,?.f$3QSupport renaming of Kerrville V.A. Medical Ctr.
2.3e2S~39 Revised population estimates - water planning
2.4~(/~NE Violation of Kerr County Subdivision Rules
2.5 No^~ Workshop - discrepancies between Kerr County
Road Inventory ~ TexDOT's GPS map
2.6,He~r. Concept plan - replat of Lot 18, Box S Acres
2.7 N.~~ FY 2000 budget guidance, requests, & schedule
2.8.?S~YD Facilities Maintenance and Use Department
2.9~10~E Fee structure for use of HCYEC
2.10~gy/Recovery of Indigent Health records from
ASO North America, Inc.
2.1LaSFy.~Review of election precincts for compliance
with Texas Election Code
2.12 PUBLIC HEARING
Road Name ~ Addressing Guidelines
2.13,}~Sy3Adopting Road Name & Addressing Guidelines
Commissioners Court adjourned
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On Monday, April 26, 1999, at approximately 9:00 a.m., a
Special Session of Kerr County Commissioners Court was held
in the Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. It's 9 o'clock on
Monday, April 26th, 1999, and we will now call into order
this Special Commissioners Court session. Commissioner
Williams, I believe you have the honors this morning.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise?
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any
citizen wishing to speak on items not listed on the regular
agenda who has filled out a form for consideration at this
time may come forward to address the Court. Is there anyone
who wishes to address an item that's not on the regular
agenda? Is there anyone who wishes -- yes, ma'am?
MS. CALCOTE: I do, but I didn't want to be first,
necessarily.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, you're either first or last,
so --
MS. CALCOTE: Okay. I'll take advantage, then.
First off, is there any -- before I give my name, I would
like to know if there's any reporters in here.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't see any reporters at this
time.
MS. CALCOTE: I just want to be considered a
concerned citizen.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, our rules require that you
provide us with your name.
MS. CALCOTE: All right, but I wanted to make that
statement. I'm Hazel Calcote. Buster knows me, he's my
Commissioner. I live at 1701 Calcote Road. And, for about
eight months -- Buster's sort of aware of, maybe, what I'm
fixing to say. I have two things. First off, I am appearing
here in reference to a plot of land out there. I understand
there's five acres there, and there's three mobile homes
jammed in a tiny, compact area, and a travel trailer behind
that, that people are living in all three. And, as I
understand, by the restrictions of that subdivision, two
mobiles or residences are allowed. They have no certified
septic. They're not on a water system. And myself and all
my neighbors have $5,000 to $12,000 aerobic systems that have
been required to be installed on residences, and these people
have none, and I want to know how come they've gotten away
with it that long.
I understand -- I appeared before the U.G.R.A. last
Wednesday or Thursday -- I've forgotten what day -- and, as I
understand, one of their men from the -- it wasn't Charlie,
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but I think it was Mark, was turned away from that property
with a shotgun. And a deputy went out there and he, too, was
met with a shotgun, and said he couldn't come on there. But
then, before the meeting was over, they did tell me that the
County Attorney is aware of this, and that the old boy has
agreed to tie onto a water system and to put it in a septic.
Now, my question is, who's going to see that he does it?
Who's going to see that he doesn't make a mobile home nest
out there with more than what he has already? Have you been
by there, Buster?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, ma'am.
MS. CALCOTE: Why?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Give me a hint where it is.
MS. CALCOTE: On Calcote Road, about halfway up the
hill on the left. I pass it every day, twice.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know where you're talking
about. They had the fire there a couple of weeks ago.
MS. CALCOTE: That's right. That's another
question I'm going to bring up in a minute. But, I -- as I
understand it, I don't -- I hope it's not a buck-passing
situation, but the U.G.R.A. told me you all would be the
enforcers of this septic system, any restrictions that
they're not complying with.
But, there's a mobile home there, and I thought, as I
went by, he was digging -- or he had dug a hole. There was a
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concrete tank that I took for a septic tank sitting out there
when he first put his -- the number one mobile home in there,
and I presumed it was septic and he was -- it was going in as
a legal septic system. I learned the other day that the
U.G.R.A. assumes that this was a bottomless ring, because
they do know that there is no drainfield there. And behind
it, now, is a water-bearing draw. It carries water in a
heavy rain. That runs into -- I don't know, I think it's
Marshall Creek -- no, I don't know what the name of the
little creek is down there close to the fire station. This
creek runs into that, this little header, which runs into the
Guadalupe eventually.
Now, if we're all so concerned about pollluting the
water, and I very much am, how comes he's getting away with
doing it and all the rest of us have to apply -- comply to
the rules and regulations? And I want to know who is going
to see that he does what the rest of us have to do? Next
question --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, let me answer that one first.
MS. CALCOTE: Yes?
JUDGE HENNEKE: The U.G.R.A., through a contract
with the County, enforces the septic rules, and we will
inquire of the U.G.R.A. as to what the status of this matter
is if you can give us the name of the individual. As far as
Subdivision Rules as to number of dwellings or structures you
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can have on a specific piece of land, those are not enforced
by the County. Those are enforced by the individual owners
in the subdivision or an owner's association. So, if they
have more structures on their land than they're supposed to,
that's something that your homeowners' association, if you
have one, needs to address, or you as an individual owner in
that subdivision can address.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or a different kind of
structure.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. If it doesn't conform to
the restrictions of the subdivision, then either your
homeowners' association or the individual owners in that
subdivision are the ones that police those matters.
MS. CALCOTE: Okay. Well, that, to me, isn't as --
personally, as much of a concern as the water pollution
situation, but I was just pitching that in to let y'all know
that concentration of residences there that are -- that
water's going somewhere. They haul water by the gallon milk
jugful, and they're bound to have some dish water, wash
water, bath water, septic water. It's going somewhere.
Wastewater's going somewhere. And, back before it started
raining -- and every year when we -- it gets dry and we have
burn bans, I know of people that have started fires and
burned up Iots of acres during the burn ban. And I want to
know why no penalty, to my knowledge, has ever been imposed
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on somebody that breaks that burn ban rule. Is there such a
thing as -- is anybody in the County -- have they ever been
penalized yet?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if it --
JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know, Ms. Calcote. We need
to ask you to move along.
MS. CALCOTE: Yeah, okay, I will. But I would like
for -- or I would like to request you all, if you're going to
have a ban, make it stick, because out there we've had about
four -- four fires. And, I thank y'all for listening to me
complain. I hope do you something about it, 'cause I never
appear and gripe unless I feel like I've got good reason.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there any other citizen that
wishes to address us on an item that's not listed on the
regular agenda? If not, we'll move into Commissioners
comments. Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have none, sir.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Bill?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing right now, sir.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Jonathan?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a couple. I'd like to
recognize some teams of State -- or school competitions that
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are advancing on to the State round. I'm not going to read
the names right now; if they do win State, we'll ask them to
come in. But, the Tivy High School 9-H -- Tivy 4-H program
-- this is Kerr County -- the Soils team, the Wool-judging
team, and the Mohair team have all advanced to the State
competition. And, in Comfort, Comfort High School's One-Act
Play has advanced to State, and I think that it's good to
recognize all those students doing a lot of good work.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Particularly in these times, it's
nice to recognize some students for positive things.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER HALDWIN: What about the -- what about
the Mock Trial group? They were here last time practicing,
and they're going where?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Going to St. Louis the first full
weekend in May for the National competition.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: National competition.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're going to be honored
at the country club this week, too.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Wednesday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also note -- I'm not sure
if they advanced to State or not, but the Tivy One-Act Play
were in the Regionals. If they won -- I'm not sure what the
results were. If they did win, they went to State. I see a
head shake. They had a good year, as well, in the Regionals.

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JUDGE HENNEKE: Larry?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Nothing this morning.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. I have a couple things.
First of all, I want to offer my thanks and the thanks of the
Court for the barbecue that we had out at the jail on Friday,
Friday evening. It was a very pleasant event for me to see
all the people who work for the Sheriff, either for her
department or the jail, and their families. It was a
pleasant time and I certainly enjoyed myself. I want to
thank her and all the people who worked hard to pull that
together. Secondly, I want to note that the Kerr County
Historical Commission will be receiving a Distinguished
Service Award for outstanding preservation work accomplished
in the year 1998. This will be given at a conference to be
held in Austin on April the 30th, and congratulations to the
people on the Kerr County Historical Commission for deserving
and receiving this award based on the hard work and benefit
they provide to the County, so congratulations, gentlemen,
and give our best to Bill and all the rest of the members of
your commission. We're proud of you.
GENERAL SCHELLHASE: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: If there's nothing else, we'll move
on to the approval agenda and the bills. Does anyone have
any questions of the Auditor about any bills?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do not, sir.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: No.
JUDGE HENNEKE: No?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay bills.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we pay the
bills as presented. Any further discussion? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget amendments,
Tommy?
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We have no budget amendments. Any
late bills?
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Approve and accept
monthly reports. Do I have a motion to --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So move.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Griffin,
seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we accept and approve the
monthly reports. Any further discussion? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hand.
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(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Moving to the
regular agenda, consideration agenda, the first item is Item
2.1, consider and discuss approving Resolution enforcing the
U.G.R.A. water and wastewater planning effort. Mr. Williams?
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. More
than a year ago, the Upper Guadalupe River Authority unveiled
its 24- and 48-month plan to provide treated surplus water to
areas of Kerr County that are solely reliant on the Trinity
Aquifer Group for domestic water supply. This plan also
includes providing wastewater treatment to cover an area of
Kerr County where septic systems are failing and seriously
threatening both groundwater and surface water by creating a
potential for public health hazards.
Following the leadership of the water conservation
districts, representatives of U.G.R.A., Kerr County, the City
of Kerrville, the Cities of Ingram and Center Point, and
investor-owned utilities and concerned citizens from
throughout the County have met and planned and suggested that
the City of Kerrville could logically become a regional
center for wastewater treatment, and that U.G.R.A. use its
available acre feet of water to serve these same areas with
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treated surplus water.
Subsequently, the City of Kerrville has agreed that this
plan makes sense and has great potential for solving the
proliferation of failing septic systems in Kerr County.
Independently-owned water systems have responded
affirmatively as well by oversubscribing U.G.R.A.'s current
allocation of river water. Senate Hill 1, enacted in the
last session of the Texas Legislature, mandates regional
planning of water resources. Using surplus water to its
fullest extent, thus reducing the dependency on aquifer
resources, is among the goals of regional planners, of which
my colleague, Commissioner Letz, chairs Region J. U.G.R.A.'s
24- and 48-month plan is integral to the success of these
efforts.
However to accomplish these goals, within Kerr County
and regionally, significant capital investments must be made.~ii
Therein Lies a problem, particularly for U.G.R.A., that must
be addressed during this current legislative session. Prior
to 1995, U.G.R.A. had unlimited bonding authority. Evidence
of that was U.G.R.A.'s ability to bond for and construct the
water treatment plant for the City of Kerrville, which is
currently owned by the City of Kerrville. However, in our
legislative reworking of the Texas Water Code during the 1995
legislative session, somehow or other U.G.R.A.'s bonding
authority fell through the cracks. It seems in 1997, our
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Representative Hilderbran introduced legislation restoring
U.G.R.A.'s bonding authority, but with a cap of $1 million.
The issue we believe must be addressed during the legislative
session.
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For Kerr County to benefit from this long-range planning
by U.G.R.A. to provide and distribute treated surplus water
and provide wastewater collection and treatment facilities
for areas now unserved, U.G.R.A. must have its bonding
authority expanded. Water treatment facilities, wastewater
collection systems, and treatment plants where needed cost
significantly more than $1 million. The Resolution before us
today requests our Representative, Harvey Hilderbran, to
introduce and support a companion bill to that one already
introduced by Senator Wentworth and recently enacted in the
Texas Senate removing the cap on U.G.R.A.'s bonding
authority.
Very recently, I believe, Judge Henneke discussed this
important issue with Representative Hilderbran, and he can,
if he wishes, provide us the details of that discussion. i
have spoken with Representative Hilderbran as a recently as
this morning. And here today, I believe, to speak in favor
of the Resolution is the Mayor of the City of Kerrville, Ben
Low, and I see also in the audience Councilman Hill McCrae
and others who are interested in this particular Resolution.
That brings the Resolution to the front of us. And, if
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there's anybody else who wishes to comment, they may. If you
want me to read it, I'll read it; otherwise, I would lust
read the Resolves and get it into the record.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any comments?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one. Bill, you read
in your -- in your comments lust now, that this Resolution is
asking Hilderbran to support the Wentworth bill.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Introduce a companion piece
of legislation to remove the cap from U.G.R.A. so that they
can have bonding authority to do these things which are
beneficial to this County. The Resolution, therefore -- the
Resolves would be:
1. That the Kerr County Commissioners Court endorse the
U.G.R.A.'s 29/48-month plan's goal of producing and supplying
treated surplus waters to investor-owned utilities and other
major water users within Kerr County in order to
significantly reduce the current and sole dependency on the
Trinity Aquifer Group's groundwater reserves by those
investor-owned utilities; and
2. Kerr County Commissioners Court urges Representative
Harvey Hilderbran and Senator Jeff Wentworth to support the
passage of legislation establishing sufficient revenue bond
capacity to design and construct the U.G.R.A. 29/98-month
plan; and
3. That U.G.R.A., a body politic, be encouraged to

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expeditiously move the U.G.R.A.'s 24/48-month plan into
implementation. And I move the Resolution be approved.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been moved by Commissioner
Williams that we adopt the Resolution. Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Second by Commissioner Griffin. I
think at this time it might be appropriate for us to hear
from the Mayor. Mr. Mayor, will you come forward? Thank you
for being here this morning, Ben.
MAYOR LOW: Thank you for inviting me.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's too rainy to play golf,
anyway.
MAYOR LOW: Judge Henneke and members of the Court,
I am Ben Low, and I am currently serving as Mayor of the City
of Kerrville. And, while I am not here this morning in an
official capacity, I am here to encourage this Court to give
approval to the Resolution that you have 3ust read and lust
dealt with. It -- it will be on the City's agenda for
tomorrow evening for consideration, and I certainly hope that
the City will move to approve that Resolution and, certainly,
it's our hope that this Commissioners Court will -- will do
likewise. We feel strongly that this is an avenue by which
some problems can be addressed in the County, particularly as
they refer to water and wastewater, and it seems to us that
U.G.R.A. is the best vehicle by which to bring about resolve
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to these prohlems. Thank you very .much.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, I will
relate to the Court and citizens of Kerr County that on
April 8th, I was in Austin at a meeting of the Texas Rural
Judges' Association, and had occasion to visit with
Representative Hilderbran on this specific issue. And, at
that time, Representative Hilderbran urged the Commissioners
Court to adopt a Resolution in favor of lifting the cap so
that the U.G.R.A. could, indeed, have sufficient revenue bond
capacity to address the water -- particularly the wastewater
problems in Kerr County. The specific Resolution which is
before the Court does not identify Senator Wentworth's bill,
as -- as Commissioner Williams read in the "Whereas." It
simply urges both Senator Wentworth and Representative
Hilderbran to adopt legislation which would give the U.G.R.A.
the revenue capacity to do the 29/48-month plan, and it is in
that sense that we bring this Resolution to the Court today,
to urge both of them to do whatever they can to allow the
U.G.R.A. to have the capacity to do the good work that they
have set out to do. Is there any further discussion among
the Court?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the question I have is
going back to -- since -- I've talked with Harvey at some
length over the weekend. His proposal is a little bit
different than Senator Wentworth's. Are we still -- I mean,

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they both are trying to accomplish the same thing; both are
raising the cap. One goes to $55 million under Harvey's
ideas at the moment, and I think unlimited under Senator
Wentworth's, as I recall or from what I understand. But,
they're different; there's some other language in the bills,
and I just want to -- I mean, are we just going with the
concept or are we trying to support the legislation? And I'm
open to -- you know, if there -- if U.G.R.A. -- I know a
number of the Board members are here. You know, are they
trying to give us direction or want to us do one or the
other? Or -- or, really, is it a generic Resolution to raise
the funding under some method or some scheme? I'm a little
confused, because the two bills are very different as they're
going to be proposed, as I understand it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the Resolution does not
address a specific bill, and I don't think that was the
intent. It certainly wasn't my intent when I worked on it
with Commissioner Williams. What we're trying to do is to
support both Senator Wentworth and Representative Hilderbran
in raising the bond cap, so that the U.G.R.A. can do the 29/
48-month plan. Now, we're not the Legislature, just like
we're not the County Clerk. We don't tell them how to grind
the sausage. What we're wanting to see is it come out at the
end of the process so that it works for all of us. And,
we're -- this Resolution, in my mind, does not single out
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either Representative Hilderbran's bill or Senator
Wentworth's bill as a preferred vehicle, but what we need to
see, in my opinion, at the end of this legislative session is
a raise in the bond cap so that the U.G.R.A. can then go
ahead and raise the revenues needed in order to implement the
29/48-month plan.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. I'm just
bringing it up because generally our resolutions are
bill-specific. We don't do very many that are just kind of
supporting concepts. Concepts can get changed with
legislation, and I certainly support the concept of, you
know, letting it be worked on. It's just that, you know, I
was a little uneasy whenever we're just talking concepts
because -- you know. I mean, Harvey's bill came out last
week -- or idea came out last week; I don't know whether he's
got a bill written yet, and I know Wentworth has his bill
filed, I believe. They're just different, just kind of --
you know, that was my only concern, only reason for bringing
it up. I don't have any problem with the Resolution as it's
written, but it's something that we generally don't do as a
Court, is concept Resolutions.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think in this case,
though, we almost have to because of the differences that may
be in the bills, if there is a second bill. We don't even
know that for sure yet, even though Representative Hilderbran
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has said that he's going to introduce that bill. But then I
think we have to let the legislative process perk and let it
be determined in conference. If both bills are voted out of
their separate houses, then they get taken care of in
conference, but our Resolution would still have effect. And
we're saying, "Raise the bond cap," and that's the real
purpose of it, and it might help either one or both of those
bills at this point.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It will be sent to both.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It will be sent to both.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Jeff and Harvey have always worked
together very well for the benefit of Kerr County. I have
absolute trust in their ability to get together and
accomplish what happens. But, the goal -- I think what we're
trying to say in this Resolution is this legislative session
must increase the bond cap.
COMMISSIONER LET2: That goes without saying. It
would have to.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Without any further discussion,
it's been moved by Commissioner Williams, seconded by
Commissioner Griffin, that we adopt the Resolution. All in
favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)



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JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We'll now move on
to Item No. 2, which is consider and discuss supporting the
Hill Country Airborne Association, Alamo Silver Wings
Airborne Association, and Alamo Chapter 15 Special Forces
Association in their efforts in making application to the
Veterans Administration to rename the Kerrville V. A. Medical
Center as the Roy P. Benavidez V.A. Medical Center.
Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is my lucky day. I've
got three generals and a mayor and City Councilman in the
audience, and we're just going for broke here today. This is
a continuation, really, of our effort a month ago to
introduce a Resolution at the request of the Hill Country
Veteran's Council, which General William Bacon chairs that
council, and I think any one of those gentlemen who is in the
audience might want to give the Court a little bit of benefit
of the thinking as to the value of this Resolution. I don't
think there's any problem with their supporting it, but we
would love to hear from you, General Bacon. I see you out
there.
GENERAL BACON: Thank you, Commissioner Williams,
Judge, members of the Court. It's a real pleasure to be
here. And I would like to express to you, all of you, the
members of the Court, the support that you have given the
veterans in the area in our attempts to continue the V.A.
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Hospital, known as the Kerrville V.A. Medical Center. All of
you are aware, I'm sure, of the problems that we've had and
the progress we have made and the progress we haven't made.
But, we're at a very crucial point in our efforts to maintain
the hospital. The budget is -- seems to be the problem, but
it is also aggravated by the conditions which the federal
government is monitoring the V.A. and the Administration --
the Clinton Administration's V.A. program. It's -- it goes
back to a lot of things where our congressional delegation
doesn't know what is happening at Kerrville. Senator Specter
this past month asked the Director -- the Secretary of the
V.A. to appear before his committee, and he actually refused.
And, consequently, the Congress has no idea of what is
happening in the various districts due to the organization of
the V.A. in its delegation of authority from the Secretary's
office down to the working level.
I think Dr. Chong, at his meeting in February here, one
of his first statements was that there are people in
Washington today that would like to see the V.A. Health Care
Program canceled. There was a -- a rousing cry from the
audience; many of you were there: "Who?" "Who?" "Who?"
Chong said, "I don't know who." What is very obvious is --
his answer was very obvious, because it's his bosses that are
wanting to do away with the V.A. Health Care Program. And, I
-- when I say "his bosses," I'm speaking of the Director of
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the Health Services, Dr. Kaiser, the Secretary of the
Veterans Administration, Mx. West, and the White House. So,
this is the challenge that we have.
Now, then, in bringing this to a point, I would like to
gust address Kerrville, specifically. The budget procedure
is going on well in Washington. The President's budget comes
out and it is about $1 billion short of what is needed to
operate the V.A. in its existing status. The House Committee
-- Veterans Affairs Committee raised the President's budget
by $1.9 billion. The House Budget Committee came back at
$1.1 billion increase. The Senate Budget Committee -- or
V.A. Committee in the Senate raised the President's bill
$3 billion. Conference Committee between the House and the
Senate brought this back to 1.8, $1.8 billion, an increase
over the President's bill.
Now, then, as this has developed, we get word from Mr.
Coronado in San Antonio at the Audie Murphy Hospital that
this puts him at $30 million short. Well, $30 million is
roughly what we consider, probably, the budget for the V.A.
Hospital of Kerrville. And we all know -- we all feel
confident that in anything that happens, if this budget
stands as it does, that $30 million of Kerrville's money will
go to San Antonio. So, with that, we're coming along, trying
to come up with how we can draw attention to the Kerrville
hospital, and how to bring the nation up to speed on what's
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going on.
Number one, nationally, the uninformed think of
Kerrville V.A. Hospital as that 1924 facility established by
the American Legion and taken over by the V.A. in the '30's,
and one of those old old hospitals that have been around all
these years and needs to go. But, in reality, we all know
that here is the best hospital -- the best hospital in the
whole V.A. system. From a patient-care standpoint, from the
employee standpoint, it has been the leading hospital in the
entire V.A. Now, it doesn't make sense for us to close the
best and leave the worst. So, in this -- trying to determine
and get the word out as to what is happening, we came up with
the idea -- and it's brought up by several people -- let's
change the name. Let's name the hospital after an
outstanding American soldier.
We knew that it was going to -- anything like this would
take a lot of work and trouble. And I'd like to interject
right here that this all took place prior to the Cesar Chavez
situation that took place in San Antonio, these discussions,
so we're not trying to follow anything in San Antonio. This
was originated here. Now, then, with it, we understand the
procedure -- that's a long and detailed procedure to change
the name of the hospital. But, in fact, this hospital's name
is being changed every day by the V.A. as they see fit. I
have a piece of correspondence here now, addressed to me,
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about an appointment at the Kerrville hospital, and it is
addressed Audie Murphy Memorial V.A.M.C., such-and-such a
street in San Antonio, Texas.. "This is a reminder of the
following clinic appointment on Tuesday..." and so forth.
And this is signed by John L Rush, Division manager of the
Kerrville Division of Audie Murphy Hospital. So, this is no
longer the V.A. Hospital -- the Kerrville V.A. Hospital.
This is Audie -- a division of Audie Murphy Hospital.
With this trend that has been going on, it kind of
breaks your heart. I was in Audie Murphy not too long ago,
and in looking through the orthopedic ward, I see these
veterans in wheelchairs, but on the back of the wheelchair,
"Kerrville." All of the equipment has been moved from
Kerrville to Audie Murphy. So, we're not going to get any
support from those people down there. I'm lust pointing that
out. Chong is not going to support us. Mr. Coronado is not
going to support us. We've got to do it ourselves. We've
got to get out and get it supported nationally.
And, in this process of changing the name, the
Congressman from this district has got to submit the request.
It goes to the Department of Transportation. Why, I don't
know. But they come up then and say, "All right, yes, we can
do it," give the Congressman permission to go ahead and write
the bill. It's a committee of the Transportation Department.
From there, the Congressman writes his bill, and he has to go
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back and get 30 signatures, signatures from every district in
the State of Texas, to approve this. What better way to draw
attention to the Kerrville hospital during this period of
need? It is something that we can get get started, get
rolling, and push it.
Now, Congressman Smith, in a letter I have here, has
given us the green light to go ahead if we so desire. He
said it's going to be a lot of -- lot of work. But, I think
the publicity, the knowledge that 30 congressmen from the
State of Texas will receive over the effort it cost us to do
this will be well worth our efforts. Roy Benavidez has been
a hero, a Medal of Honor winner and a hero to all of us in
Texas. I think it would be very, very appropriate for you to
support us in this effort. Thank you very much. Any
questions?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any questions of
General Bacon?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a great idea. I
certainly support it. We don't have a Resolution prepared,
but can we lust make a motion to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To draft a Resolution?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to draft a Resolution so we
don't have to bring it before us again and --
GENERAL BACON: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: An appropriate Resolution.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Before we do that, though, we have
a request from Judge Stacy to address us on this issue.
Bill, it's your turn.
MR. STACY: Yeah. General Bacon said it all. I
did bring this picture of Roy. I've met Roy. I was honored
to shake his hand. He's traveled the whole state talking to
schools and anybody that will listen about American values,
and he is a great American. And probably the Commissioners
-- I don't know, I think you might have a copy of this, of
the citation that he did win the Congressional Medal of
Honor, which should be printed in your Resolution. It's a
wonderful thing. So, all I can do is lust urge you to
support what we're trying to do to help save our hospital and
honor a great American. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you provide us with a
copy of that?
MR. STACY: You can copy this if we can get it
back. That came from his friend, Bennie Guerrero, if you'd
like it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Absolutely, thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there a motion on the
table?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Not yet.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is is Mr. Benavidez
from?
MR. STACY: A little town outside of San Antonio.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The reason I ask, I was --
last week I was in Boerne High School at a band contest, and
I noticed a photograph of him in the Administrator's office.
I lust thought maybe his -- is he a Boerne --
MR. STACY: I don't know. He's spoken all over the
state to groups of children.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I'll make the motion
that we --
MR. STACY: E1 Campo, yeah.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- that we do draft the
Resolution with the citation attached, to urge Congressman
Smith -- or let the system know that we want -- that we
support following through with the renaming of the hospital.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Texas Congressional
Delegation.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, I think, but it has to
originate with Representative Smith's office to get that
process started. And we'll lust have to work on the language
on that, but I would make the motion that we do that
Resolution.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.

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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Griffin,
seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we adopt a Resolution
in support of changing the name of the Kerrville V.A. Medical
Center to the Roy P. Benavidez V.A. Medical Center, and
forward same to appropriate Congressional delegation. Any
further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right
hand.
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
MR. STACY: Thank you, gentlemen.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you all.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Thank you,
generals, for all the work you've done. And Sherry.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: General Sherry.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Three generals and Sherry. Thank
you, gentlemen.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sounds like a rock group,
Three Generals and Sherry.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll next take up Item No. 3,
which is consider and discuss revised population estimates
for Kerr County for regional water planning purposes. I
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believe at this time we're going to pull this item, since we
have not had an opportunity to prepare the actual population
figures. We'li bring it back to the Court at such time as we
have the numbers that we want the Court to -- to officially
bless.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, depending on when I
reschedule the Region J meeting, it's probably going to be
before our next Court meeting. And we're already behind
schedule in getting this -- I mean, it's going to take I
don't know how long, probably a week or so after our next
meeting to get this out of Region J, then on the State's.
We're looking at a pretty long delay before we get this
process going. Is there a way that we could delegate
yourself or -- and Jim or delegate someone to come up with
these numbers? I mean, does the Court have a problem with
that? I think --
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's up to the Court. I mean,
when we discussed the concept at the last meeting, the
direction from the Court was to bring the numbers back and
the Court would approve the numbers, which was why it was on
the agenda for this time. If we want to change it and give
myself or whoever the Court wants the authority to approve
the numbers on behalf of the Court, I don't think -- I think
we can do that, but that's not how we talked about it last
time. So, what is the pleasure of the Court? Mr. Brown, do
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you want to --
MR. BROWN: Thank you, members of the Court. Fox
the record, my name is Jim Brown; I'm General Manager of the
Upper Guadalupe River Authority. I'm not sure that that`s
why I`m here today. I think I'm here because I`m on Region J
Planning Group, and also because I am the designated local
political subdivision that handles all the planning
coordination fox the Court.
While we haven't had a chance to go through the numbers
this morning, let me leave something with you very quickly.
And for those in the audience who really do not understand
the impact of this, if you'll allow me a second. In our
planning fox our future water resources in our Region J, we
have to -- we have to demonstrate an acceptable population
base, and that population base then will be the driving force
that -- that allows us to apply the average per capita water
use demand within our County and in -- within the total
t region in order to come up with our total water needs for the
~ year 2050. U.G.R.A. -- Kerr County does not have enough
water -- groundwater and surface water per minute at this
i time to meet our needs beyond the year 2030 fox those in the
2 outer reaches of the county, and I believe it's 2040 or 2045
3 fox the City of Kerrville. So, it`s very important that we
4 establish these numbers. Now, because we`re in Region J and
5 our resource for surface water is in Region -- L?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: L.
MR. BROWN: -- Region L, which is Canyon Reservoir,
Region J has to go to Region L and we've got to negotiate
additional water out of their region to be -- to be
transferred back up to our region to meet our demands. So,
this is a very critical issue for the life and growth of Kerr
County. Judge Henneke has pulled together reports from the
Water Development -- well, from Kerrville Telephone Company,
Texas A & M University, in conjunction with the Texas State
Data Center -- and that's one of the groups that the Water
Development Board uses -- the Kerrville Independent School
District, and the Alamo Area Council of Governments.
In quick analysis of what we're looking at here, we are
-- we are objecting to the numbers established by the Texas
Water Development Board's Consensus Operation, and that is --
that's a group that's made up of the Water Development Board,
' the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, and the Texas
S Department of Agriculture. And, our numbers severely impact
i us after we get beyond the year 2020. The delta between the
Water Development Board's numbers and the HDR study -- and
1 the HDR study is an engineering study that was done here in
2 conjunction with the City of Kerrville, U.G.R.A., KPUB, and
3 the Texas Water Development Board. The Water Development
q Board has approved that study, but yet the numbers in that
5 study differ from the numbers generated by the Water
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Development Board. So, we have -- and we also have numbers
from population projections from the A & M group. The AACOG
group was hard to break out because it .combined Gillespie and
Kerr County. Kerrville Independent School District has great
numbers for -- for its district. In order to -- in order to
make that work, we're going to have to generate numbers from
other districts.
When we were doing the HDR study, the Water Development
Board allowed us to use, for discussion purposes only, the
school's census population numbers, so they've been rejected
once before, so that means we have to -- we have to really
prove those numbers up. The Kerrville Telephone Company's
numbers are extremely interesting, and as a result of an
extensive report -- or extensive study done by the telephone
company, those numbers -- the delta in those numbers between
the Water Development Board numbers and the TWD numbers are
so great that we will have to spend additional time to prove
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those numbers up.
One of the things that I'd like to lay out today, if you
~ -- and I'm bringing this to a close. The delta between the
~ Water Development Board's consensus numbers and the HDR's
~ numbers that were approved in October of 1997 for the Year
3 2000, the HDR study shows that the Water Development Board is
4 down by 544 individuals. In 2010, the Water Development
5 Board's numbers are down 2,028. In 2020, they're down by
34

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2,939. In year 2030, .Water Development Board's numbers are
down 2,787. And then we get in very wide discrepancies when
we get into year 2040. The Water Board numbers are below the
HDR numbers by some 6,553. And then in the year 2050, the
delta between the Water Development Board numbers and the NDR
study is 13,776. And, when you multiply that times 185
gallons per day per capita, and that's what our average use
is in this county, then you can see we're looking at a
significant impact on our water resources to meet our
population and growth demands.
The other -- the other issue that -- for those of you
who are not familiar with this process, the model considers
race, age, ethnic, and religious backgrounds. And, they --
someone has convinced the folks the Austin that Kerr County
has become a retirement system -- retirement community and,
therefore, birth rates are on a decrease and will be on a
decrease in Kerr County, and that's what's skewing the Water
Development Board's numbers. They're not realizing that
there's been a change in growth, been a change in development
in our county. And, so, part of what we're going to have to
do is we're going to have to help them understand that.
There are two options. If we have a timeline, there
will be two options. One, we can go with the Water -- we can
support the HDR study now, and two years from now we have an
opportunity to come back on a second round of the -- of the
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population challenge. So, we have two options; we can spend
a lot of time and effort and money building our cases now for
Kerrville Telephone's numbers and -- and reworking the school
population numbers, or we could simply say at this point, we
adopt the HDR numbers, and advise them that -- that probably
they can expect a challenge from us in two years. That's my
report to the Court.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we have three options. We
can do nothing, we can give a member of the Court the
authority to sign off on the numbers on a consensus basis
with U.G.R.A. and Headwaters, or we can lust plan on having a
special meeting in order to approve the final numbers. And
it's really up to what the Court wants to do. There may be
other alternatives that I haven't laid out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When do the final numbers
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come in?
JUDGE HENNEKE: When do they?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When do they.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When we create them.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The timeline, you know, is a
real problem for the Region J Board. The -- and I -- I did
not have a-mails come back over the weekend as to when people
wanted the next meeting. I think it's probably going to be
i the 11th, in which case we'll have -- it'll be the day after
36
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Commissioners Court on the 10th, which we could do it then,
but it may be the 4th or the 5th, and it just depends on what
day we put out, you know, what -- when we we schedule.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN:. I think I would recommend we
go with the second option.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That is for the Court to let
you work those numbers with -- with Jim and the appropriate
folks, and -- and once you're satisfied that they're right,
certify those fox the Court. I would so move.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Griffin,
seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court delegate to
the County Judge the authority to approve the final
population estimates numbers for purposes of the appeal of
the T.W.D.B. population estimates. Any further discussion?
If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
MR. BROWN: Thank you, Judge.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Brown, one sidenote
here. In our opening comments of the Commissioner Court, we
allow people from the community that have something to talk
about that's maybe not on the agenda, and one of my
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constituents, Mrs. Calcote sitting back there, had some
questions or concerns about the O.S.S.F. program, and would
you please visit with her or have someone visit with her?
She has some real concerns.
MR. BROWN: She has -- she came to the U.G.R.A.
Board. The questions she raised to the U.G.R.A. Board are
County O.S.S.F. program issues, and we are -- the staff is
working with the County Attorney in an attempt to resolve at
least part of those issues. But, I think some of her issues
had to do with the actual program, itself, which we were not
-- we were not able to discuss it because, as Administrator,
we felt like it was inappropriate.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was some confusion
whether U.G.R.A. ran the program or this Court ran the
program, I think.
MS. CALCOTE: Still is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Still is some question.
MS. CALCOTE: For me, it's a buck-passing
situation.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She's right behind you,
Jim.
MR. BROWN: Yes, I know Hazel. Hazel is -- Hazel
is a very strong advocate of water quality and water quality
issues in the county, and has worked with both Headwaters and
U.G.R.A. on some other issues. What we have here is -- we
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have a situation where there was an individual who is in
noncompliance. One of our employees went out to discuss it
with him, and he was run off the property with a gun. We, in
turn, went to the County Attorney and placed the matter in
his hands, and the County Attorney is working through the
issue. It's my understanding that the gentleman will let us
back on his property.
I think Hazel's concern was that -- that she expressed
to the U.G.R.A. Board was the overall policy that allowed
things like this to occur in the county, and what the program
-- the program that we have in Kerr County is more of a
permitting and regulatory program. It doesn't do -- the
program doesn't include advance planning, it doesn't include
surveys of on-site septic systems that are functioning or not
functioning. It's strictly a -- it's strictly a permitting
and regulatory program, and it doesn't include the -- doesn't
include the survey of failing systems and things of this
nature, and that was one of Hazel's concerns is, until
someone either, A, complains about a failing system, or until
they come in and apply for a permit, we don't catch it.
On the other hand -- and this doesn't resolve Hazel's
problem, but what the U.G.R.A. Board -- the U.G.R.A. Board,
about three months ago, allocated money out of the settlement
from the -- the lawsuit between City of Kerrville and
U.G.R.A. to open -- open up a -- an on-site septic -- or,
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actually, it's a water quality program that allows our people
-- it's a funds mechanism for U.G.R.A. water quality staff
people to trace .back the pollutants that we know of. In
other words, we find creeks and streams that are showing high
readings of certain chemicals that we know that they're
associated with on-site septic systems. But -- and, again,
we don't have the funds to canvass the county to see if we
have on-site septics.
Now, the other problem that Hazel has is that her
neighbor -- or this individual is also apparently running an
on-site dump yard. He brings in all kind of old broken-down
machinery and cars and trucks, and that, though, to me, is a
land Solid Waste/landfill issue, and that's, I think, why the
Board suggested they come to the County.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I see Mr. Holekamp nodding his head
in the back of the room. Ms. Calcote, if you want to talk to
Glenn about the Solid Waste part of it --
MS. CALCOTE: My main concern is his septic.
Nobody, it doesn't look like, is going to make him --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it sounds to me like there's
been a compliant filed, so the U.G.R.A. now is in the
position to investigate and to enforce the O.S.S.F. rules.
MR. BROWN: Well, the complaint's over 90 days, and
that's why Hazel's -- the complaint's over 90 days old, and
that's why Hazel's concerned. But, again, we've initiated
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the legal process. It's gone from an administrative matter
down to a -- to a judicial matter.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
MS. CALCOTE: Sir? Judge? Excuse me. May I ask a
question? Who is going to make him do it?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Ms. Calcote --
MS. CALCOTE: That's my concern. Who?
JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't have that as an agenda
item.
MS. CALCOTE: Who does?
JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't have it as an agenda item
today. We can't take any action on that.
MS. CALCOTE: I'll be back.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll be glad to see you. The next
item is Item No. 4, which is consider and discuss status of
alleged violation of Kerr County Subdivision Rules and
Regulations. This was an item that was on our agenda last
week, brought to our attention by Franklin Johnston, the
County Engineer. We asked Mr. Pollard to take a look at it.
Before you start, Tom -- Franklin, did you send a letter to
Mr. Muller? Did you get any response from him?
MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, sir, I did send him a letter,
and he called the next day and came up, and we had a visit at
our office with -- Commissioner Williams was present, where
he indicated he was changing the scope of his sales promotion
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to include only property that had frontage on County or State
road, basically. It was eliminating those two lots that were
-- had no access.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Subsequent to that meeting,
Judge, I happened to drive by the 1869 Ranch property on
Highway 27, and noticed that the gentleman had changed the
signage. The for-sale sign now says 750 acres. But then,
subsequent to that, in a chance meeting at the Burger Basket
in Center Point, he said, "Well, now, I might sell 400 acres
to this guy, and 300 acres to somebody else." So, we really
don't know where it is, except that at this juncture he's
somewhere between one lot and four lots, and we don't know
where.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Tom?
MR. POLLARD: Yes, sir. After I received the
County Judges' communication on the matter, I called Truby
Hardin to make sure I was reading this plat right, which was
included in the package from the County Judge, and at that
time she told me that she'd just spoken to or had some
contact with Commissioner Williams, who said that the man had
changed the whole situation now and was not going to offer it
in lots, and that this might be a moot issue and that I
needed to check with Commissioner Williams. I then called
down here and missed Commissioner Williams, but talked to
Thea and told her what the situation was. I also decided,
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just on my own motion, to make some inquiries. Included in
the package was an advertisement from a -- a real estate
broker, Remax down in Boerne, so I lust called down there and
asked about it, and got some fella named Buckholt, who said
-- was very defensive about the whole matter and referred me
to Mr. Muller, gave me his phone number, and I promptly hung
up, called Mr. Muller, and talked to him on the phone. I
told him I was trying to find out -- we had some conflicting
information about what he was going to do, and I wanted to
know from the horse's mouth what he was going to do, what his
plans were out there. He said -- well, he confirmed
generally what Mr. Williams has indicated. He was going to
sell it, and now he had changed his signage; he was going to
set it as 705 acres, he told me, not 750. And -- but then,
before he hung up, he said, you know, "There may be somebody
answer my ad, previous ad, about wanting a part of it,
though, and so I might sell them a part of it."
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same conversation he had
with me.
MR. POLLARD: So I assume that, at the present
time, he's offering it for sale at 705 acres, and if somebody
does come up and want part of it, then he may consider that.
So, I -- from my examination of the information sent to me
and based on the information I have, it falls within the
subdivision requirements and subdivision statute
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requirements, and he would be required to do that, and so
it's up to you all what you want to do. I decided to come
before you and recommend that we at least send him a letter
saying, Based on your representation that you're not going to
sell it in smaller tracts, we're not going to do anything.
But if you change your mind or if we find out otherwise, then
we're going to take some action -- or I'll recommend to the
Commissioners Court that they take some action. It's up to
you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's an excellent idea.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good idea.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good idea.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Especially with the history of
Mr. Muller.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Pollard, would you so write the
letter?
MS. POLLARD: I will do so.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We appreciate it. Thank you.
MR. POLLARD: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you want a motion to that
effect, Judge, or ]ust --
JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know that we need a motion
to that effect. I think we can lust instruct Mr. Pollard to
follow through on his recommendation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item for our consideration is
Item No. 5, which is consider and discuss holding a workshop
to discuss discrepancies in the list and map of Kerr County
road Inventory and GPS map from Texas Department of
Transportation. Mr. Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I had discussions
with the County Engineer and with Truby Hardin with regard to
the GPS map that Texas Department of Transportation put in
regarding our road inventory. They have some valid concerns
about whether or not the State of Texas is giving us due
credit for the numbers of roads that we should have for which
we would receive some dollars, and I invited them both to
address the Court and tell us of those concerns and tell us
why we need to have that workshop.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right.
MS. HARDIN: For the record, I'm Truby Hardin in
the Road and Hridge Department. When I started working for
the County nine years ago, the Court reported that we had 620
miles of road. Since that time, we have put it on computer.
We have a database, and our guys have driven on the roads,
but they've driven them in our trucks. Some of them have
300,000 miles on them, so the odometers are probably not real
accurate. But, last year we reported -- certified 498 miles
of road to the State.
On April the 6th, the Judge forwarded a packet to us

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from TexDOT on a project that they started some three years
ago, where they sent out an independent company to do GPS, or
-- I think it's Global Positioning Survey of all the County
roads. At that time, we gave them a map and we gave them a
list of the road names, and we offered them an employee, but
they didn't -- they chose not to use an employee, and they
worked in the county for about three weeks. Whenever they
had a question they would call and ask, and we would try to
clarify whatever it was. This project, which took them three
years to complete, came back and they said that we had 923
miles of road. That's a difference of 75 miles.
We were asked to review the data, which consists of five
rather large maps, a 22-page summary of the roads, which are
listed by number with a mile, and then 608 pages where they
did the GPS of each road that they deemed to be County-
maintained road. In order for us to try to find the
discrepancies in that, I added to our database State I.D.
number, the length of the mileage that the State showed, and
a category for the mistake that we found so that we could
sort on those. We asked -- I went over the maps with the
foreman from each area, so that they could find any other
discrepancies in the map, and we still come up with a
difference of 60 miles. There's 47 roads that they don't
show on the map. We found 13 that are marked on the map, but
are not County -- marked as County. We have 25 that are not
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County-maintained. And so we're still at a -- 60 miles
apart.
So, I asked the State how this would affect our funding,)
and they referred me to three Transportation Codes, and I've
put those in here for your information, but the only one
we're really familiar with is the Lateral Road Fund, which I
believe last year was approximately $33,000. The law is on
here, and the best we can come up with is that they will take
the overall mileage for every county in the state, so this
may not be affected too much. There's also the one for
overweight permits; we're not familiar with that, so we don't)
have any idea how much that brings in. And then there is the
vehicle registration fees. And the best that I can get out
of this Transportation Code is that that's going to cost us
$350 per mile. At 75 miles, that's $26,250, and at 60 miles
it's still $21,000.
We at the Road and Bridge Department don't know if this
affects the general revenue in any way, so the State
representative is going to be in our office on May the 17th.
He was coming sooner, but we asked him to wait till after we
could have a workshop. And, so, what we would like is for
the Court to set up a workshop, if possible, at the Road and
Bridge Department so that you can go over the maps for your
areas, and any other data that you would like to go over.
And we would like to have, if possible, the County Auditor

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and the Tax Collector/Assessor to tell us how this mileage
will affect general revenue.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Truby, when you say the
State representative will be in your office, you mean a
representative of the State?
MS. HARDIN: The representative of the Texas
Department of Transportation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. HARDIN: Is going to come and he's going to
mark on that map every mistake I found. I told him to be
sure and make a reservation at the Y.O. so he could stay
overnight.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You picked his hotel for
him?
MS. HARDIN: No. Actually, he said the Y.O.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have you projected a date,
Truby, for this workshop? Have --
MS.HARDIN: No. I think Commissioner Williams had
assumed maybe the next Court date, but whenever y'all --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think probably
A.S.A.P., that's what you're asking, because you have a
tentative meeting with this representative from the State.
Are you asking that all members of the Court be present or
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just one or two of us, or what's your pleasure?
MS. HARDIN: I would like. every. member.of..the Court
to look it over. If y'all want to do it one at a time,
that's fine. I just -- but it would be -- I would really
like to know how it's going to affect us, funding-wise.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be helpful if each
of us arrange to come separately to your facility and review
the maps with you to make sure that everything is in place?
Would that be beneficial?
MS. HARDIN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Would that be
helpful to the Court, so we don't have to --
COMMISSIONER HALDWIN: We could do two at a time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or two at a time. And then
-- and then we need to have a discussion, you're saying --
you're suggesting, with the Treasurer and the Auditor -- the
Auditor and the Tax Assessor/Collector at the same time?
MS. HARDIN: And then I assume somewhere at this
point, someone's going to have to certify that the mileage
that we actually -- that they give them is true and correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. If we have to
protest this, is that -- it has to come as an official action
from the Court to protest that the wrong -- if the road
numbers are incorrect?
MS. HARDIN: I'm assuming that when he comes on the
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17th, he will direct us as to what we have to do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds to me like it would
probably be easier, rather than a workshop, to have, you
know, two of us go together and look at the layout; 2 and 3
or 1 and 4 from the precincts, and look over the map for our
area, or do it individually. But it'd be easier, I think,
two at a time.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I was thinking along the
same line. If we go individually or in small groups to get
the information, then perhaps we could address this at the
next Court meeting. We should have time by then to have gone
through our individual precincts and see what it looks like,
and then have some kind of -- of number, corrected number,
that Road and Bridge can show to this -- have ready for that
representative when he shows up on the 17th of May.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we need to have all
this done before the 17th of May.
MS. HARDIN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the idea that you
and I go, and then Larry and Buster take care of the western
end of the county and so forth, and then we can arrange for a
separate meeting with Tommy and Paula.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can have that done by the
10th. We can have time to address it at our meeting on the
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10th if we need to.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, if we need to.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well TexDOT's not coming
until --
r1.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We meet as a board again on the
10th, so if we're going to direct TexDOT -- I mean --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We just need to it do before
the 10th; our meetings need to happen before the 10th.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will that work in an
informal fashion? And then we can come back --
MS. HARDIN: That's wonderful.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- if we need to.
MS. HARDIN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The next item is No. 6, which is
consider the concept plan for the replat of Lot 18, Box S,
Precinct 1. I'm not sure that it's timely for us to take up
this matter, because I haven't seen a concept plan. Has
anyone seen a concept plan?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I definitely have seen it.
I've been out there walking around, visited with everyone.
MR. JOHNSTON: Do you have an extra copy?
MR. VOELKEI,: Sure.
MR. JOHNSTON: I thought we had sent a copy of it
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with our agenda request.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's really not a plat in
here.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, there's a sketch.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody tell me where this
is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's off of Harper Road.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have this, Mr. Voelkel.
MR. VOELKEL: Pardon me, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I say we have this. Is this
the concept plan?
MR. VOELKEL: No, sir. I had a copy of the Box S
Tract No. 18, which, the way it was originally platted -- the
way it was promoted to be replatted, that was an adjoining
property on the plat to show the easement that exists.
MR. JOHNSTON: A plat like this here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's the concept plan.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the proposed replat.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is it? Oh, there.
MR. JOHNSTON: Lee and I had occasion to go out and
actually look at the site. I think Buster did at another
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time; he was on the site. And my comments are kind of down
to a couple areas. One, Box S Drive, the entire -- this is
right at the entrance where it turns off of the highway.
It's now a 60-foot-wide easement and it's entirely within the
property of this lot, so if they subdivide this lot, I think
that 60-foot-wide easement should be a dedicated 60-foot-wide
right-of-way for that area of Box S Drive. And what they're
proposing is access to these three lots would be off of Box S
to East Lake, which goes up a hill, and then would traverse a
90-foot-wide road easement in another subdivision, and then
come back to this lot on top.
COMMISSIONER LETZ; Say that again. You lost me.
MR. JOHNSTON: I'll have to trace this out. Box S
comes in here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. JOHNSTON: Comes down East Lake, this road, and
there is an easement in an adjacent subdivision, goes down
here and then they want to come in and have access to these
three lots. Big drop-off right there. It's not really
practical to come up the hill to build on top. There's an
existing road right there now.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, there would be sort of a
horseshoe to get back in here?
MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. My concern is that this, you
know, is an easement. It says -- it's scratched out here,
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says 40 foot, 40-foot road utility easement. And that's not
part of the same subdivision.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Franklin, why can't they get
the -- this easement, assuming it's right off Box S Road
right here, why does it have to go all the way down?
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, there's a lot of big grade
difference right there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't get up this hill.
MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, it's very difficult to get
around it. That's not developed in that area; looks like a
road, but there's nothing there. And then I think when they
come in, they would need to have some kind of access to all
the different lots, dedicated easement in that area.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I actually I see this a
little bit differently. It's definitely -- by definition,
it's subdivision; they're dividing a piece of land into two
or more properties. It's my understanding that this 6.4
acres remains in the ownership of Mr. Schiwetz, and then the
7.7 acres right above it there is being sold or given -- I
never did know how they convey it -- to a lifelong friend of
Mr. Schiwetz. In my mind, it's like -- it's like conveying a
piece of property to a family member, almost. The caliche
road that's in question right there, I drove it, and drove --
I mean, it's not up to County standards, but it's a good
road. And, personally, I would like to see us grant a
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variance for him on that caliche road there. Now, I agree
with the County Engineer on the Box S Drive, that that needs
to -- that is a main road coming in that provides ingress and
egress for several -- many properties that sit back there;
that it should be dedicated road, dedicated to the County.
But the caliche road in question, I think we need to grant a
variance, because it lust goes to his place, he and his
lifelong friend's place.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that easement on his
property? It's in a different -- see, the question I would
ask there is that, for his protection, he needs to clarify
the status of that easement so that whoever does own that
property over there -- under the terms of their easement,
there may be some way that road could be shut down, and then
you've got no access. And I know where they'll come to get
it; right here. And --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all need to address that,
answer his question.
MR. JOHNSTON: Lee probably has more information
than I do, but I think this is not an actual easement
recorded as a separate easement in the Easement Records.
It's only shown on this subdivision plat, lust by a note on
the plat. That's the only reference to an easement there is.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the caliche road is in a
separate subdivision, and it's there by virtue of a note
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reference on that subdivision plat.
MR. JOHNSTON: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, there's nothing that ties the
ability of the owner of the 7.7-acre tract to use that
caliche road, 'cause he's in a different subdivision.
MR. JOHNSTON: I would think it would be kind of an
iffy thing, being in another subdivision and having access
through another subdivision.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. It may be easily --
rather easily solved if Mr. Schiwetz could go to that owner
and amend that easement to include access to these three
properties, but I would certainly hope that they would do
that, at a minimum, before we would approve a plat.
MR. JOHNSTON: That was my other question, 'cause
-- what's the name of the other subdivision, by the way?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's also Box S. North
Pasture, I believe it is.
MR. SCHIWETZ: It's all the same subdivision.
Excuse me. I'm Ted Schiwetz, for your information.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, there he is.
MR. SCHIWETZ: And this is the gentleman who wants
to obtain the tract next to me, part of the tract. His name
is Harry Stevens. But it's all -- it would be one
subdivision. It's all platted. He lust did it into a North
Pasture and a -- the lower part that goes across the lake is
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another part of it. So, it was all done essentially at the
same time. This road has been there ever since I've had the
property in 1981, and I've been using it since then, and I'm
I'm the only one that uses it, to be honest with you. And
it's served the purpose well. It's lust a -- we're gust
trying to get access. As far as coming off the road at the
bottom, that is -- I don't have the finances to do that, and
I think it would take somebody extravagantly wealthy to be
able to traverse that hill, to come up. So, you know, that
part would be extremely difficult. And it's paved all the
way up to the top of the hill to where you turn left and go
down toward the property. So -- you know, and it is on the
plat, a 40-foot-wide road easement and utility easement for
access to those tracts.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Schiwetz, I'm not sure
I understand the answer with respect to the extension of the
utility easement. Lots 5, 6, 7, 8 and whatever may be beyond
that, I'm a little confused about that.
MR. SCHIEWTZ: Well, looking at the plat, it looks
as though the -- the road easement that comes up East Lake
Drive essentially serves the top part, the northern part of
the --
COMMISSIONER LET2: See, 1, 2, 3 -- well, it really
lust serves four, and you see how it extends all the way up.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
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MR. SCHIWETZ: Okay. So, it essentially serves
four_ And then right there is the gate., essentially where I
get access to my property, so there's just a little short
strip there that serves another lot. The rest of it just
serves this triangular piece that we're -- that is the
subject matter. And then, of course, it serves -- now, these
tracts that are on your other plat that you have; that would
be the northern part of it, which is called the North
Pasture, or whatever it's called. So, this little road here
is really -- to be honest with you, all it's serving is this
little piece here, and then all the property that I own.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Specifically, I was
concerned about the extension of the utility easements moving
in whatever direction that would be.
MR. SCHIWETZ: To the -- that would be west.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? I just stopped at
the .05 and it doesn't --
MR. JOHNSTON: I think there's a well lot up there
at the top of that hill.
MR. SCHIWETZ: Yeah.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's why it stops there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me ask the question a
different way. Is there any chance that, given two or three
changes of ownership into the future, okay, and for whatever

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reason, is there any way that the owner of the property where)
that easement exists along this strip could deny you access
to these three lots? Now, I've got one in my precinct right
now that's a pending lawsuit and has gotten nasty because --
because at the time it was originally done, there was no
problem, quote-unquote.
MR. SCHIWETZ: I don't -- I don't believe so
because of the access. That's why I was bringing up '81,
because I have been using that property, that road, since
then, and it is is shown on this. It's a public road. It's,
you know, a public roadway, lust nothing done to it. But, by
establishing the use of ingress and egress, I do not believe
I -- the case law will hold me to the point that I can have
ingress and egress, access in and out of that property.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that before we can approve
this, even as a concept plan, we need to see some legal basis
for the use of this caliche road for the tracts in question,
'cause I'm still troubled by the fact this this easement is
on someone else's property. And, I think it's by
prescription or -- it's a tricky thing.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me ask a question.
MR. JOHNSTON: North Pasture Subdivision needs to
be related to that road as a right-of-way.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could we have it -- do you
think there would be any problem in getting that designated
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as a dedicated right-of-way? And then you'll never have a
problem with it.
MR. SCHIWETZ: I have no idea. I don't know.
COMMISSIONER LET2: How about how big is that
subdivision?
MR. SCHIWETZ: There's a lot of people out there,
but nobody uses that road.
MR. JOHNSTON: I don't have the exact number of
lots, but it's at least as large, I think, as this other one.
MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir, it is. I'm thinking it's
about 150 acres total.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Now many owners? Do you have
any idea? Or lots?
MR. VOELKEL: I don't have a feel for that. We can
find that out, certainly. One question I had, I was confused
when we're -- I'm Lee Voelkel, for the record. When we're
talking about this easement on someone else's property „ you
are aware that it is a platted easement; in other words, it's
not by prescriptive use. It is on the recorded subdivision
plat as a road and utility easement.
JUDGE HENNEKE: But for whose benefit? Is this --
is this lot that's got 7.7 circled here, is that part of the
subdivision for which this -- that road is -- that easement
is platted, or not?
MR. VOELKEL: I understand your question. Yeah,

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that's something we have to address.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me make the point and
ask the question one more time a slightly different way.
Would it be possible to get that owner lust to extend the
terms of -- it would be a modification to the easement that's
existing now, to include that that easement is also to
provide access to these three replatted lots? If he would do
that, if whoever that owner is or whoever granted that
easement would do that, that covers you. No matter how far
into the future you might look. So, I -- it's lust to avoid
-- I realize right now that you can get to the property,
there's no problem. But --
MR. JOHNSTON: Then all the -- all three of the
lots actually use that top road, even though they have
frontage on the front -- it's impractical to drive up that
hill. There probably needs to be some kind of an access road
coming down tying them all into that, 'cause now it only
fronts two. This one doesn`t.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, can't the other -- can't
the 8.6-acre tract and 6.4 get access off of Box S Drive?
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, they front that, but there's a
steep hill there that makes it kind of impractical.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is really a bluff coming
from Box S. it's really a bluff.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: From that standpoint, I mean,
guaranteed, those lots have access. I think Franklin`s idea
is good. If the owners didn't want to -- I think that
they've got access to their property on public property right
now. I mean, they can do what they want as long is as they
have access on that road.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, from the standpoint of
future use, it would be better to do that. But, I mean,
yeah, but I agree that you just need to clarify what the
easement says or exact language of it, get an opinion as to
whether that's just an easement for that subdivision to use,
certain people to use, or anyone in the public to use. If
it's anyone in the public, I don't see a problem. Is it a
problem the way it is?
MR. JOHNSTON: Right now it works great. It may
always work great, but at some time in the future it may be
-- different owners may have different ideas.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe if you can clarify who
has access on that easement. As long as you do, or anyone
does --

COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It may be that you have that
-- that's a good point, that it could be that the way the
easement is written, it`s a public easement.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
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COMMISSIONER GRLFFIN: But it may .not be. It may
say it's an easement for utilities and for access by owners
of the property up here, and not down here. And if it's
worded that way, that's not good.
MR. JOHNSTON: I don't think we have anything
really spelled out except that little note right heze, as far
as we can find. Right?
MR. VOELKEL: That's all I had.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's all we've been able to find,
just that note reference. It's not actually a spelled-out
easement.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no plat note.
MR. JOHNSTON: There's just a plat note.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's the handwritten --
MR. JOHNSTON: 40-foot road utility easement.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's --
MR. SCHIWETZ: Down in the -- if you look -- I
don't want to --
MR. VOELKEL: I don't have the entire plat here.
MR. SCHIWETZ: Let me read it here.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Does it have a recording
reference?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, Volume 3, Page 57.
MR. SCHIWETZ: Roadway easements, 60 feet and 90
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feet wide as indicated, are retained and provided at the
locations shown. Easements are provided for electric power
and telephone lines at the locations indicated on the plat,
and all such easements shall be 12 feet wide. Electric lines
and water lines may be placed -- it keeps on going.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the bottom line is we
need an opinion, I think, of that; an attorney saying that --
you know, what you have.
MR. JOHNSTON: Volume 3, Page 57, is that north
acre plat.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's -- I mean --
MR. JOHNSTON: North Pasture.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just get an opinion as to
who that easement covers. And if it doesn't cover the public
or these individuals, it needs to be amended or modified as
such. If it does, no problems.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think y'all understand our
concerns now. If you could take a look at that issue and
bring it back to us at such time as you're ready for to us
consider it again.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the other issue, the waiver
issue, I don't have a problem granting a waiver at this point
on that to leave that road the way it is. It doesn't concern
me that much. It's just going to one lot -- or three lots.
MR. SCHIWETZ: Sir, are we talking about
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information from the.adjoi-Wing -landowner on the north side?
I believe there is lust one owner.. I'm trying to find out
who you need information from.
JUDGE HENNEKE: What we need to know is your legal
right to use that 40-foot road easement.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For access to those three
lots, as shown on your concept plan. If we understand that,
I think that's probably the only issue that we would have.
Just what is the -- what is your -- what are your rights
under that easement in perpetuity to be able to get to that
property? That's the --
MR. JOHNSTON: Then, I guess, beyond that, there is
a water system out there; I guess we would need a letter
saying they have two more -- capacity for two more lots.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Capacity for.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it a private or a -- if it's
a private system --
MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends if it's a public
system, but if it's a private, it wouldn't. And it --
MR. JOHNSTON: Do you know what that is?
MR. SCHIWETZ: Water system?
MR. VOELKEL: Water system, I don't know.
MR. SCHIWETZ: What's the question?
MR. JOHNSTON: Is that a public water system?
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MR. SCHIWETZ: No, it's all private. In fact, I
have an extremely good well up there which will serve two or
three lots easily, so that's not a problem.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That acreage, we don't have
to --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. At that acreage, they
can, you know, do without that.
MR. VOELKEL: I lust want to add to that issue, we
already have a letter from U.G.R.A. on a concept plan there
with these proposed three lots that water and sewer will be
acceptable. On-site well, on-site system, if that be the
case. So --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, in keeping with what
we've done in the past, I'm going to propose a 10-minute
break.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We're going to reconvene at 10:40.
(Recess taken from 10:30 a.m. to 10:90 a.m.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Court will now resume the Special
Session today, April 26th, 1999. The next scheduled item on
our agenda is Item No. 7, which is consider and discuss the
County's FY 2000 budget guidance, the departments' budget
requests, and the budget schedule. Larry?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is primarily for

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information this go-around. We did have the workshop last
Thursday, got some good input as a result from the elected
officials and -- and the department heads who were there.
There was -- there were a few offices who were not
represented that I'm going to have to get with individually
this week so we can go through some of that same thing, and
then I've got to get back with the Auditor to see about
generating the forms to get that process started. We, in
essence, are going to use the same form system. We will have
this year the same form system that we use or have used in
the past, with some additions that this effort is adding
thereto so that we can do some out-year planning and that
sort of thing. In general, it was, I think, very well
received, even though it's always a culture shock when do you
something -- when you attempt to try to do something
different. And I will be working on more of that this week
and getting those forms out, we hope, by certainly not later
than week's end of this week.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we need to approve the actual
guidelines? What is your thinking on that?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't think so at this
point, because we may want to do some final tweaking to that.
There's nothing -- because, in essence, we're not really
changing how we do business. We're adding some prework --
I don't think that we're -- it requires the Court's action to
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do that. Buster, help me on this one, because i think what
we're talking about really is sort of just an internal
working procedure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I don't see it as a
policy-type change at all. It's just -- he's just moving
some things around, basically. Basically, everything all the
way through Step 3 is basically what we've been doing in the
past. Just rearranging is all there is to it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: My concern, which I have expressed
to Larry, is that the folks out there doing the budget need
to know what the rules and the steps are. And if we're at
the point very soon, if we're not now, that they have that
information and they can go start on that, then we're okay.
But if there's something that they`re waiting on from us
before they start their own internal planning process, then
we need to accelerate that --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't think --
JUDGE HENNEKE: -- because the clock is running.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that's exactly right,
and I don't think there's any question -- or at least the --
from the reaction and from the ability to get started on this
process the way we outlined it last Thursday, there was no
major objections that this won't work or anything like that.
I don't think there's any problems with proceeding just as we
outlined it Thursday. If there are concerns -- in fact, we
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have at least one who was here. Barbara, you were there. Do
you have -- let me dust ask you, as a data sample of one, do
you have any thought that we may have trouble starting this
process as we talked about Thursday?
MS. NEMEC: No, I think we all left from there
knowing what we need to do. It's like you said earlier, lust
the people that weren't there, you'll have to get with them
and update them on what we discussed. But I think the ones
that were there left knowing what to do, and it would work.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And those guidelines, we
may, as I say, wait -- that one sheet of guidelines would
sort of outline the whole process.
MS. NEMEC: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We may want to clarify that,
'cause I urged people at the workshop, if you've got a
question, come ask me. And we may -- so we may want to
update that a little bit. If we see we've qot everything in
there that we think we would possibly want to have, before we
qet very far into the process, then maybe we want to bring
that to the Court and adopt that as the guidelines, carry
that from year to year. But --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll agree with that.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I think, at this point,
I would still consider that document sort of in-work, because
I think everybody understood what -- what its intention was.
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MS. NEMEC: And it's basically what we've done in
the past. The only difference is, in the past, like, I would
attach a worksheet or a sheet to my budget request, and I
would put the account number, the line item number, and
explain why the increase or decrease, whereas now we have
this form, and on the actual budget, itself, you put -- under
Notes, you put 1, 2, or 3, and then you go back to this other
sheet and it -- so it's basically the same thing. It's dust
a uniform way of doing it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, good. Anything else on this
particular -- okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. There is a quick
question for Tommy, gust because I -- I heard a lot of dates
when I got into it, and you were gone that day. But, sort
of, what is the -- your feeling for when we may have the
preliminary revenue estimate? By what date, would you think?
MR. TOMLINSON: You mean an estimate of next year's
budget numbers? Or this year's actual?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, our -- yeah, our -- our
preliminary revenue estimates for next year. 'Cause I was
little confused.
MR. TOMLINSON: That number is -- or the part that
I can give you won't change much from what it is. There --
my experience with nontax revenues is that it doesn't change
much. So, I think -- I think to get a number that's
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reasonable --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What about tax revenues,
preliminarily? That's really, I guess, what I'm asking, is
.that you come -- I think it's supposed to be by --
MR. TOMLZNSON: I don't know -- I don't know what
the legal date is. There's a date that the Appraisal
District has to furnish us a certified roll, and I don't know
when that is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the date is, I believe,
in-July, last week of July.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, it's July 25th, but
that's for the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The real numbers.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's real numbers. That's
based on a certified appraisal roll. There is another number
that we have worked to in the past, I found in the
documentation, that was a preliminary revenue estimate,
so-called.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whenever you can get it from
David.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Whenever you can get it from
David? Is that is the --
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. He's given us some
preliminary numbers hefore, but I think that's -- that's the
function of how far they are along in their process.
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COMNIS.SItJNfiR GRIFFIN: Right. But do we ask them
for those preliminary--numbers. by..a certain date, or can we?
MR. TOMLINSON: I think we can.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I -- well, I'll get with you
later, then, on that, 'cause I -- the earlier we have that
preliminary number, obviously, the earlier we can --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They know the number right now.
The question is going to be what is under appeal. I mean,
they know -- the tax figures are out; it's done. What
they're not going to know at the moment is, through the
appeal process, how much they're going to have to change.
So, they can give you the high side and how much is under
appeal and take that out. If they lose all the appeals,
that's the Iow side. They can give you those numbers right
now. They can give you those figures, the range. Should be
able to.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. Well, we're not tied
to the preliminary numbers, but it sure would be nice to know
that by -- to have it in the back of our minds that by the
first of July or the middle of June or whatever it is, we
have this preliminary number to work from.
MR. TOMLINSON: Unless you -- unless you change the
rate, your tax -- your tax dollars are going to be the same
as they are this year --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plus the value --

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MR. TOMLINSON: --..gene=ally, because your
effective rate will give you the same numbers, same dollars
that you --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If the valuation's the same.
But if we've got more valuation or less valuation, then the
number's going to change.. It's the same tax rate.
MR. TOMLINSON.: No, it won't.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The base increases?
MR. TOMLINSON: The rate goes down.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's talking about the
effective rate, not the actual rate.
MR. TOMLINSON: If your valuations go up, the rate
goes down, your effective rate, so you get the same amount of
dollars regardless of what your -- your appraised value.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we usually leave the rate
the same and increase our budget by the growth in tax base.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Than that's what we're
trying to get a handle on, is what is -- as fast as you can,
what is a good estimate for that. And we can get a later --
number later in the process when we have a certified
appraisal roll, and we get an actual estimate. I mean, a
real --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That number should be available)
right now, pretty close, from the Appraisal District. They
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know the value.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think this is -- this is
not an appraisal year, I don't think. I think it was last
year. Was the -- was it last year?
COMMISSIONER LET2: I don't know. Kendall County
does it every year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMSs They should know by now
what has come onto the tax roll since last year, last fiscal
year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Increased value, that's what
we're really looking at.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, and additional
properties. If you build a house, you've got to pay taxes on
it, we hope. Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Next item is Item No.
8, consider and discuss establishing a Facilities Maintenance
and Use Department, relocating the same to the Hill Country
Youth Exhibition Center, and temporary oversight of Animal
Shelter and Solid Waste Departments until September 30, 1999.
Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to pass out one
sheet that was omitted from your packet inadvertently. It's
just a recap of the structure and the dollars involved in
that. Essentially, the Court recalls at the beginning of the
year you asked me to take a look at Facilities Maintenance


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and Use and establish a use policy. We did that, brought it
to the Court last month, and the Court decided they would
take another little look and do some tweaking on it one more
time, which I did. I made some changes based on some
concerns that were evidenced by some of the Commissioners,
and so what we have now is a new set of recommendations.
Essentially, we were creating or reevaluating Maintenance
Facilities supervision and creating a Facilities Use Policy.
And the recommendations -- I'll go through them. There are a
couple small changes.
Rename the department to Facilities Maintenance and Use
Department, consolidate the administration of facilities use
therein. Establish Animal Control and Environmental Waste as
separate departments with separate supervision. This is a
tweaking of the some concerns on that issue last time.
Appoint supervisors to head Facilities Maintenance and Use
Department, Supervisor to detail for Commissioners Court the
proposed supervisory structure and budget realignments, if
any, which I've ]ust passed out to you. Appoint a
Supervisor, Animal Control and Local Health Authority for
Rabies .and Animal Control, effective October 1, '99. And
permit the facilities supervisor to exercise oversight of
Animal Control and Solid Waste for the remainder of this
budget year to assist us in evaluating supervisory
realignment.
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Facilities Maintenance and Use Department will establish
its principal office at Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center.
This is a change from last time. The custodial section of
this department will be based at the courthouse. And the
larger of the maintenance and the heavier equipment will be
based at the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center, where
there is space available to establish an office there.
Scheduling of facilities use will be handled at the Hill
Country Youth Exhibition Center office. Heavy grounds and
maintenance equipment and requested supplies will be housed
at the Ag Barn office. Custodial equipment and supplies will
be housed at the courthouse. Rewrite the lob descriptions as
needed and necessary. All requests for maintenance,
custodial services, outside services, supplies, and equipment
must be written and signed by elected official or department
head and forwarded to Facilities Maintenance and Use
Department for fulfillment. And in next budget year,
consolidate the expenses contained in line numbers which are
listed.
Then the Facilities Use Policy, which had only some
minor changes to accommodate some concerns which were
expressed to me, one of which was that any offers of public
organizations to permanently place objects such as statuary,
trees, plants and et cetera on County facilities or grounds
receive prior approval of Commissioners Court. So, it's
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before you one more time, and there it is. You'll note, in
the sheet I just gave you, that the realignment for the
remainder of this year -- including what's taken place
to-date, the realignment for the remainder of the year comes
in under the amount budgeted, consolidated amount budgeted in
the Existing hudget. And the proposed budget for next year,
while a tad higher on one number, is still less than what was
budgeted this year.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? I think
it's an excellent -- excellent organization. A lot of hard
work's gone into it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. I agree; I think,
you know, Bill's certainly done a lot of work on this, and
the overall direction, I think, is really good. I'm starting
at the top on the first page, and I think the Maintenance
Department should be separated from Animal Control and
Environmental Waste; that dust makes sense. This was done
because of the situation last year, and there should be two
separate departments.
When I look at the budget, I'm a little -- for next
year, you know, that budget -- it seems we're going to have
to have a supervisor out there. That person should be paid
higher than current wages either way, whether you promote
from within or hire a new person. But I think we need to,
you know, address that, he aware we're going to have to have
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a budget increase in those departments to handle the
supervisor next year. But I -- I think we need to do it.
Now, whether we want to go ahead and -- and accelerate it and
do it now, or wait till the. next budget year to make the
change and separate those two departments, I really don't
have any real strong feeling one way ox the other. I think
we need to, you know, really get into a personnel discussion,
which I think we grobahly need to do in Executive Session at
some point on those issues.
But, I think the concept's good, and I think the idea of
moving the larger equipment out to the Hill Country Youth
Exhibition Center makes sense_ I don't have any problem with
that, keeping ]anitorial here. The -- on No. 8, you know,
"All requests for maintenance, custodial services, outside
services, supplies and equipment must be written and
signed...," I mean, I think there's enough latitude in there,
I hope, that when there's an emergency situation which is --
usually we're faced with at the 7ai1, that those things get
done by a phone call. And I think we can probably make it --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I think so.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to make lust a note,
emergencies are handled otherwise. And, I guess the other --
going down the Facilities Use portion „ second page, (c),
"Prohibition of food and drink except as authorized..."
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was supposed to
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_ 78
exclude the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center. Somehow or
another, that got lost in the translation, so there will be
an exclusion for Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That wasn't even -- I didn't
even read it in there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I picked up on it and saw
that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other question I have
on this is I think we probably need to develop a little bit
of a procedure, dust to what the decision-making criteria is
on that for whoever is going to be head of -- you know, make
that decision, which is the Facilities Supervisor.
Hopefully, most of those can be made by the Facilities
Supervisor as to, you know, what the criteria are.
Generally, you know, whenever there is an event on the
sguare, drinks are provided. I mean, most of the time that
I've been out here during the Christmas lighting and other
events, there's almost always food and minor beverages, so 1
think we need to, you know, come up with some sort of a
policy on that. That's not a real -- you know, it's a real
minor point that can certainly be done after the fact.
The area that I probably had the biggest concern about
-- and, you know, Bill and I talked about this a lot, and
part of his changes were to try to resolve this. This is
under the booking of facilities, and Bill has recommended
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strongly we go with one office to do that., .and I'm -- he
knows my concern. It's a concern; this isn't a problem. I
am concerned still about combining the use of all -- or
booking all facilities in one location. We've got the
Courthouse square, current facilities -- and we're going to

add probably two more to this, but we currently have the
Courthouse facility, we've got the Ag Extension office, and
we have the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center.
And I think that if we try and centralize this -- and
one of these, Bill's-already said, that probably should not
be included is this Ag Extension office should be handled out
there locally. And I almost think that all three facilities
should almost be handled stand-alone right now. At some
point we might need to combine them. I lust see the -- this
courthouse square as a very different facility than the Hill
Country Youth Exhibition Center, and I think that a lot of
the booking and sales and all that is -- is very unique at
that facility. And I would -- we've been spending a lot of
time in the past year trying to work with Laurinda and work
out a system that the Court's happy with. It's going slower
than I think we'd like, but we're working on it.
Laurinda's done a lot of work recently, and we'll
address some of that on the next agenda item, but to change
that system in the middle of trying to fix it is lust kind of
like we've never even given the revised system a chance to
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work, and I'm gust a little leery of -- of changing it,
mainly from the standpoint of the users. We're going to take
a lot of education of that facility out there if we change
the way it's handled, and. I'm 3ust concerned. that we don't
wholesalely just change it outright. You know, that we maybe
pull that portion out until we get a little better handle on
some of the use and the other, I guess, procedures and fee
structures that Bill and I paobably worked on. Hold that
section out until we resolve that, make sure we're not making
things worse out there by combining.
That would be my only comment, lust to pull that portion
out right now and 3ust have it -- basically have the Ag
Extension office do its own booking, the Youth Exhibition
continue as it's going, and this Courthouse square booking be
handled either through, you know, our Administrative
Assistant or through the Maintenance Department.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just another comment --
JUDGE HENNEKE: I guess my situation is I'm not as
tied to the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center as someone
else may be, and when you're talking about scheduling
maintenance, scheduling overtime, and scheduling our
custodial staf, to me, it's highly complex to have requests
coming in to three different places. How, then, do you avoid
a situation where you have a major event scheduled at the
Courthouse and a major event scheduled at the Ag Barn, and
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we're required to provide maintenance and janitorial services
simultaneously for more than one place?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have the -- Mike at the Ag
Barn, who works daily with the booking and use of that
facility, and Glenn in the same department is working down
here. I mean, I think the Maintenance Department is still
tied to both systems, the way it's currently working. I'm
.not saying not to change it. I'm just saying let's get some
of these other things we've been working for quite a while at
the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center on the booking and
how we're handling that settled before we decide to
centralize the booking of it. I'm not convinced that that
is going to be the easiest and best for the public, you know,
to --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Always looking for the --
you know, for the way out, when I read that, I didn't read it
quite that way. It says that use of all County facilities by
the general public or organisations should be "coordinated
through." Not approved by, but coordinated through one
office. And -- and I don't think that necessarily says that
this one office will approve every user's request. It says
that they're coordinated through there so that you will know
what the maintenance and logistics and requirements will be
and what the -- and what the custodial requirements might be
and so on. I didn't read it as an approval authority, just
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one office having approval for the use of all of the --
approving the use of those facilities. So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another element,
too, which I think Jonathan and I -- he and I have had
extensive discussions about. There's another element which
we discussed at one time with Eddie Holland in terms of the
Ag Barn, particularly, and that deals with the promotion of
its use. And, through the Agricultural Extension Office and
those -- and those programs, Laurinda Boyd does an extensive
amount of promotion, working with groups to promote the use
of it, and I think that's extraordinarily well received.
And, this does not intend to address or attack that -- that
aspect of it. That should continue, and we -- we, as a
Court, should promote that continued activity. What we're
trying to do, I think, is to make certain that the left hand
knows what the right hand is doing in terms of use and
cleanup and maintenance thereof. And sometimes, in the past,
that has not always been the case.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that -- I mean,
going off what Larry said, if the, you know, Hill Country
Extension office, which is -- you know, Laurinda and Susie
are doing the sales ead of booking and scheduling zi:ght now..
As long as they are diligent in keeping a calendar and get
that calendar to Maintenance --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- then it's done.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have a problem.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And if there is a major
event, it's probably a good idea to touch base with
Facilities Maintenance and Use when scheduling that; to say,
"Are there-any other major things going on at the same time
at any of our County .facilities?" Not that they couldn't go
on, but just to make sure that everybody's aware that things
may happen just a little bit slower; it may take more -- have
to be careful about getting things set up right and maybe
start earlier or whatever the case might be. That it's
coordinated through this one office just so they know that's
going on.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That should work.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Maintenance should be
the repository of the schedule for all the buildings, so
they're fully aware. That may be -- maybe I'm just reading
it one way and you were intending something different. But
the -- I think if we have a -- you know, Maintenance needs to
be fully aware as to what's going on at all the facilities,
you know, especially the ones that we're using to accomplish
the coordinated effort from that department. And, you know,
I agree with that part.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, and because I would

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foresee some problems if somebody comes to Laurinda and says,
"We would like to schedule X-Y-Z event," that she shouldn't
have to go to Maintenance to say, "Is that okay for me to
schedule it then?" That's. not the question. The question is
that if it's a major event, she may want to go talk to -- to
Facilities Use and Maintenance and say,. "Hey, is there any
problem that we know of logistically? Because I've got this
opportunity to book this X-Y-Z event in there and it's really
going to be large, it's going to last for a week and a half.
Is there any problem with that?" It might be smart to do
that before you commit to it, just so you know they get
served well. But, I -- was that the intent of this, that it
be coordinating?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could go either way. I am
not uncomfortable with the way you`re interpreting it. Just
-- "coordinated" means exactly what it says. You pull it
together and you coordinate it. We have discussed about
booking being done in one location.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But Jonathan makes a good
point in terms of the Extension Office. People come into the
Extension Office for purposes of Extension business, and they
say, "Oh, by the way, is the place going to be available?"
Well, they shouldn't have to be told, "Well, you've got to
traipse down to the courthouse, you've got to go see if the
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facility's available." That is pretty clear. We should --
somebody should be able to say to them, "Yes, it is
available," or "No, it's not available," and "What's your
purpose?" and blah-blah-blab. So, that's fine. I think what
we .want to be able to do is know that -- that everybody is on
the same page in tezms of its use, the use of the policy --
adherence to the policy, coordinated between use and users
and Maintenance for transmittal of fees, and the proper
contracts are administered for the use of the building, and
so forth and so on. .And that's very -- that's what we're
trying to accomplish.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that, now --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll sign for that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's great. And we're now --I
I don't know that -- we never have had a contract for use of
the courthouse area. Maybe we should. But, I mean, we're
working out contracts and fees for everything else and we're
discussing fees. Okay, now. With those comments, I think
it's -- and I appreciate the work you've done, and I don't
know if we need to, you know, approve it as a concept now.
Judge, what do you -- what is your pleasure? I mean, is it
more as a direction for the next budget year or, you know --
JUDGE HENNEKE: This is a formal change, to move
people around and change the structure. This is something
that needs to be adopted formally and become part of our
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warking,,~..lviAg, Cflunty.government.. Because we are talking
about dividing departments, creating supervisors, giving
people responsibilities. It needs to be something that's
done formally.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, do you have it in the
form of a motion?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll make the
recommendation in the form of a motion, with the slight
amendments that we have noted this morning.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I will second the motion,
and I'd like to make a comment, that -- that the motion --
that because I'm in "Budget World" right now, that the
proposed budget -- we are not approving it in this motion,
that the proposed budget will not --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This document is not a part
of the motion.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an F.Y.I. document.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That will be part of the
budget process. But, with that caveat, I'll gladly second
the motion.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been moved by Commissioner
Williams and seconded by Commissioner Griffin that we approve
the recommendations on the Facilities Use Policy as amended
with regard to scheduling of facilities. Any further
discussion?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm -- yes. And I'm looking at
some of the language here.. I'm trying to figure out how
we're going to -- if the motion agpoints supervision, or --
we're not making the appointment set forth under here; we're
just changing the structure at this point?
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're going to have to have
future motions to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's no people in here.
There's no people in here, except that we're naming a
Supervisor to head Facilities Maintenance and Use Department.
If you want to take that as a separate motion -- because it
is a personnel matter and it involves an individual who's
serving in an interim capacity. Whatever the Court's
pleasure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we do need to -- my
preference .would be to do this concept outline as a motion,
and then hit the separate things either today or later.
Probably at the next meeting we can properly put them on the
agenda. And --
JUDGE HENNEKE: We need to move this along. This
is the second time it's come up. So --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I don't see how we
-- under this motion, we can appoint a Supervisor for
anything, under the way it's_ listed.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: We11,_.the recommendation -- it's a
recommendation that we appoint someone.
COMMISSIONER-.LETZ: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It does not say that we appoint --
that's correct, we do not appoint someone, and we are
probably not in a position to appoint someone today because
it's not properly posted for that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying.
JUDGE HENNEKE.: So all we're doing is adopting the
recommendation. The implementation of the recommendation
would zequire --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Separate motions down the road.
JUDGE HENNEKE: -- specific agenda items, correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At the risk of muddying the
water a little further --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Throw out a net.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we do have an interim
appointment which will probably -- it expires the end of this
month.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I thought we had it extended
at least until the next meeting.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can -- I don't see how we
can act on that decision, based an the agenda.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, then, I guess that
individual is 3ust out there in limbo, isn't he7
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COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think Jonathan is right;
we have to extend the -- this thing.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I'm saying.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't think we can extend
it under what's posted.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN:: No, I'm not saying --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'I1 have to do it at the next
meeting; it'll be retroactive till May 1st.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But we do have to extend it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We have a motion on the floor with
a second to adopt the recommendations in the policy, with no
action items as far as implementing it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more brief question and
I'll be quiet, Judqe. The last paragraphs regarding the
Purchasing Office --
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's not within the motion.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that's only just the --
JUDGE HENNEKE: The motion specifically addressed
the recommendations and the Facilities Use Policy.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It did not address the Purchasing
Office.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions?

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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Call for a vote.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your right
hand.
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. I'm going to
put the file up.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The next item is the companion item
to Commissioner Letz, consider and discuss development of fee
structure for the use of the Hill Country Youth Exhibition
Center.
COMNISSIONE& WILLIAMS: Part 2.
COMMISSIONER LET2: Part 2. It's probably the more
confusing part. Bill and I have been working -- I guess I've
been working on it for quite a while, and Bill since the
first of the year has been helping me with this, trying to
get the fee structure and contracts and all that ironed out
for using the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center. And
Laurinda has been, you know, providing all of the legwork and
paperwork and everything else that we keep on requesting, and
I appreciate her patience with the number of things that I've
-- I tend to be the one that requests things. But, we're at
a point now that the -- in the handout, there's a second
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page, if you would go to that. There's a group of different
organizations that are listed. Currently, we are -- the use
is divided out into these categories.
The only category that, for the most part -- and there's
a couple of exceptions that we don't really need to talk
about, but the only one -- only group that is paying for
everything out there are the commercial/profit-making.
Nonprofit organizations, Extension programs, Hill Country
District Jr. Livestock Show Association, and County use don't
pay anything to use that facility, including they do not pay
any clean-up fee or setup fees or anything. They literally
don't pay anything. And the only -- I will. say, there's an
exception on one of -- on the Rotary Fish Fry, and we can
address that if we need to. But, generally, nonprofits
don't.
There is a fee schedule that is also enclosed which goes
/~
with the current fee structure out there, and it shows, under
the Commercial, the fee structure and then everyone else is
blank. And, Bill and I were talking about it. Before we can
come up with a recommended new fee structure, if we're going
to make any changes, we need some guidance, I think, from the
Court as to whether everyone should continue to use it
completely free outside of the profit-making organizations,
or if we should charge everyone some sort of a -- a clean-up
fee or -- or any fee at all, or what we should do with that,
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1 because we certainly aren't trying to make money out there,
2 but we're at least trying to cover our cost for these events.
3 And then the second part of the question is, what are the
q categories we want to use and what are the criteria for these
5 categories?
COMMISSIODIE& BALDWIN: Question. What. happens when
6
7 a free organization uses it as far as clean-up is concerned?
g How does it get cleaned up?
9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The organization will clean it
10 up some, hopefully, but if they don't, generally, I'd say our
11 Maintenance Department does it. Is that correct, Laurinda?
MS. BOYD: Yes. And, generally, the groups that
12
13 use it free are real good about cleaning it up.
19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that, in response
15 to that, Commissioner, when we get into Facilities Use, that
16 that becomes something that's really important in that, even
17 for nonprofits or service clubs or any other group. that's out
lg there for a fundraiser, the proceeds of which benefit the
19 community at large, they ought to be made, probably, to put
20 up a deposit, which is used against clean-up expenses in the
21 event they walk off and leave the place in disarray. The
22 list that was prepared that Jonathan submitted, I think,
23 needs some tweaking, and I think we need to set the -- the
24 categories and bring it to you for your discussion this
25 morning.
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Some -- some potential suggestions,_one of them is
commercial/profit-making. It could be commercial and not
make a profit. We need to understand that, too. And
nonprofit, and then 501(c)3. It can be a nonprofit and not
have 501(cl(3) tax exemption, and so we need to make a
distinction there. County Extension programs, we understand
what that is. Government should probably include educational
and then school-sponsored activities. It can be government
and educational, and then it could be a prom, which
necessarily could be a very messy affair, but it -- and for
which admission may be charged and monies expended and so
forth. There will a lot of subconditions. And, so, I think
we need to take a look at that.
As I look at the organization utilizing the facility
now, I see -- I see some potential miscategorization, if you
will. Lions Club is listed as commercial, when it raises
funds for community use, where Rotary is listed as
not-for-profit. I think you need to be consistent in these
matters. Senior Games is a not-for-profit organization that
benefits a whole realm of people which we have. It, too,
should be thought about. The sports banquet under nonprofit,
I'm not so sure -- we need take a look at how that's done, as
well as the Tivy High School Project Graduation.
In terms of governmental use, we have -- under
nonprofit, we show a Lamar Smith Town Meeting and a Phil
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Gzaham Town .Meeting.. Those aze--not nonprofit ©rganizations;
that's governmental use, and it should be categorized, you
know, accordingly. So, I think that's what we're trying to
do, is to get everybody's input on how best to do -- we have
all the categories, and do we have people properly separated
into those categories is what we're looking to find out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- going up to the
nonprofit 501(c)3, one of the concerns that we've had out
there, and on -- I don't know, several years ago there was a
nonprofit that did not have a 501(c)3 that wanted to use the
facility and was really using it as a personal endeavor -- or
wanted to use it as a personal endeavor. So, you know, I am
fully in favor of -- you've got to have a 501(c)3 to be
called nonprofit. I mean, I really think you need some sort
of a criteria. And then, if you go under school-sponsored,
that's a little bit broader, which includes things like
Project Graduation and some of these other things. But where
t do you draw line there? I agree, a prom should not get it
i free. I'm not sure a sports banquet should get it free. But
there are some school activities that I think, you know, we
~ should provide services to the community, whether it's any of
Z the three districts -- or four districts in the county.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it's my feeling that when we
3
4 provide the facility free, that's of henefit to the community
5 for a school or nonprofit organization, but we don't provide
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our employees free. And I think -- I tend to agree with
Bill, that there should be a maintenance or clean-up fee
charged to everyone. Now,. it can be -- it can be in the form
of a deposit. They put up the money; if the Maintenance
Department certifies at the conclusion of the event that they
have adequately cleaned up the facility, they get the money
back. And that would be my thought. But I think everyone
needs to understand that -- that those services have to be
paid for, and the users should pay for them, as opposed to
the taxpayer. Most of the taxpayers would agree that every
nonprofit, government, Extension office program on here is a
worthwhile program, but should they be asked to pay for them
having use of the County facilities? I mean, a minimal
amount; we're talking $50 to $100 maximum, probably, on
clean-up for maintenance deposit. So, it's my thought that
everyone should have to provide that minimal level of
financial reimbursement to the County for the services that
we provide.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, but there are some
gray areas. As an example, you know, Kerr County 9-H, we're
not going to charge our --
JUDGE HENNEKE: If they clean it up, they get the
deposit back. Like the Municipal Auditorium, you can leave a
rolling deposit up there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ:
What I mean is I -- we just
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need to clear it up. As soon as we decide that, then you get
into F.F.A., which is not County, but you try to separate the
two to the people that are membszs-,- you know. I mean, I
don't see how we can charge ourselves a deposit, really,
through the 9-H program. And, if you don't charge them a
deposit, how do you charge F.F:A. a deposit, which is, they
think, the same thing? And, I mean, it's dust so -- I'm lust
bringing up -- the reason I put it on the agenda is that it's
not a black and white issue, and in a lot of these categories
we need to figure out, you know, and set up the rules for
everyone.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we do charge ourselves a
deposit, because why would we set ourselves above everybody
elseZ
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well-, I mean --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I woi
way, on deposits, having done some of
got to be a little careful with where
because a large organization will pay
the clean-up, and then walk away from
touching it.
ild also add, by the
these before, that you
you set that level,
a $150 deposit against
the place without
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a point to consider,)
too.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because -- and it may cost a
lot more than S150 for the Maintenance people to go out there

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and clean it up if -- if that organization didn't do anything
to it except trash it. So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: True.
JUDGE HENNEKE: One way you can get around that is
it's only a deposit; it's not a cleanup fee. And if you'll
be charged the cost of the clean-up, then you get into the
question of enforcement. But, Gene, you had something?
MR. RICHEY: For the record, sny name is Gene
Richey. I would just like for the Court to consider two
issues here. Number one, Christmas lighting and the War
Memorial, Veteran's Day and so on for the courthouse. The
last time we tried to get chairs, there was 50-cent fee.
This is -- these are far ceremonies at the courthouse. And,
so, we get them other places, which is a lot more difficult.
I know the Women's Chamber, with the Christmas lighting, I
don't feel that they should have. to pay for tables and chairs
when they're putting on a show for the courthouse and for the
County.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County doesn't own the
tables and chairs, Gene.
MR. RICHEY: What's that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County does not own the
tables and chairs.
MR. RICHEY: I realize that, but I'm lust saying

maybe we should. Anyway --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's another one of those
unresolved issues that we're going to grapple with.
MR. RICHEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We should own them, I agree.
MR. TOMLINSON: I have one thought. There's -- I
think that we're providing a service. if-we're allowing any
organization to use the facility, and there are -- there are
provisions in the Constitution that permit a County to
perform certain services. And I think that -- that if you
allow an organization to use our facility, that's outside of
those provisions, and I think you may be legally required to
charge a fee.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's true. I think
that's true, .because the Constitution says we can't provide
goods or services without receiving something in return.
HR. TOMLINSON: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Glenn?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Glenn Holekamp, Interim Maintenance.
In your discussions on this particular issue, as far as
deposits and that sort of thing, the history that I've seen
since I've been associated out there in the last six, seven
months is that the clean-up really is not an issue. It's
very minimal. Most all of the people that do use the
facility do clean it u-p. We've been very fortunate in the
5 availability of community service workers, and we utilize
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them to clean it up. And they are -- as y'all are well
aware, that's not an out-of-pocket expense for Kerr County.
So, I think you would really -- really create a burden on
some of these -- let's use 4-H as an example -- some of these
youth groups. I think it would he quite a burden to place a
deposit on them. I think it would be very difficult. That
would be taking County funds, basically, and to put up a
deposit to reimburse the County. So, I'm -- I'm not sure a
clean-up on noncommercial events would really be necessary at
this time, but that's my personal feelings, because I have
not seen the incidence of an abuse to it.
M3. BOYD: Can I say one thing? A lot of times --
Laurinda Boyd. A lot of times, also, I have offered a
service on a lot of the groups that, if they do not want to
be responsible for it when their event is through, I have a
cleaning service that we pay -- they pay the fee, and they
get paid to come out there and clean up after the event, and
that's used quite a bit. But we really have not had a
problem with clean-up. I really didn't know that that was an
issue, but we really haven't had a problem with that. As far
as 9-H is concerned, since I do that job also, we pretty much
take care of any things we have.
But, if we went in there and counted how many times we
used that facility, I'd be sitting there writing checks back
and forth constantly. And I think we do a pretty good job of
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policing ourselves, because it is a facility that we pretty
-- you know, feel very proud of, and we do a lot of stuff out
there. And -- and, plus, that's tying up funds. And, also,
the one other statement I will make is that constantly trying
to do deposits and then turnaround and repay deposits-back
creates a lot of extra paperwork in the office, and fox Ada
in the Treasurer's office also, in trying to follow back up
on all of that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we may be getting
our cart a little bit ahead of our horse here. We're not
suggesting to create a situation where we, again, can't keep
up with our funds. What we're trying to figure out is how we
can have a Facilities Use Policy that makes some sense, that
deals with the potential for the problem of clean-up if and
when it arises.. And, so, you know, we're not coming up with
any iron-clad suggestions today. We're looking for input.
And I think Mr. Holekamp has some more input.
MR. HOLEKAMP: I have a -- and when I was
understanding y'all's conversation, it was pretty much aimed
at Hill Country District -- the Exhibition Center. Was that
the trend of the conversation? Now, I realize -- and that is
something this Facilities Use Policy will have to address, is
the Extension office, for example. They have a meeting room
there, and we get a calendar, but it's real hard to do. We
were called this morning to go clean it. They've got a
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meeting today, and we've got to clean it again before
tomorrow morning. It becomes a real janitorial nightmare
when you're using these rooms constantly and the people that
are using them are not cleaning them up properly. So -- and,
of course, we now -- with a little mud on the ground, it
makes it even. more difficult. But, what I'm saying is there
needs to be some kind of system of organization to utilize
these buildings properly, and so they are presentable when
the public uses them. We can't just leave them filthy.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe what we need to do, going
back to the clean-up for nonprofit organizations, is put in,
when we do the actual procedures, just -- everyone's given
the opportunity to clean up their own mess, basically. If
they don't, they'll be charged a deposit from then on. And a
lot of these nonprofits are repeat users, you know, so if
they -- that we have the language in there that if they are
abusing it, then we can get money down the road.
JUDGE HENNEKE: There's another way to do it.
Nothing says where they're going to use it. They put up one
deposit, it rolls oyez from event to event. I will put up
the 4-H deposit myself, personally.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right.
MS. BOYD: I have funds. I have funds that I can
pay the deposit, if the County wants to set it. I would just
make it a point that, if I have to repeatedly do that, as
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much use as we have of the facilities, it would be a
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But either. one nf_.those, that's
fine. We can, you. know, .go.QUt-to, you know, like, the
schools and 3ust get. one deposit from them and say, "It's
going to be used for all your activities for the year. If
you don't clean up, you'll have to do it again."
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do we contract -- I've got a
question. Do we contract with the nonprofits? Do we
actually have a contract?
MS. BOYD: Yeah, I write up a policy, a sheet, yes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The reason I ask --
MS. BOYD: Lots of rollovers.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- perhaps you can solve it
by .3ust including that as part of whatever document it is
that they sign that says, "We will be responsible for
clean-up" or --
MS. BOYD: It's this {indicating).
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And if we don't clean it up,
we understand that there will be a charge. And don't forget
about deposits. Just say that --
JUDGE HENNEKE: We've got to go chase them.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, that's -- but, I mean,
for the nonprofit --
JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't have. a lot of success at

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.chasing.
MS_ BOYD: We have not had a problem with that.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What I mean is for the
nonprofits, like 4-H, we know where they are; they can't run
far. We can find them pretty easy.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You don't have to chase
anybody, you don't have to get a deposit, you don't have to
worry about the bookkeeping, and you don't have to issue
refund checks. Take the check, attach it to the application.
If the conditions that they agree to are met, you use the
check and you put it in the bank. If it's not, you give it
back and they tear it up. It's not that big a deal. As my
friend here said before, it's not rocket science.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that anger?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to make sure.
I hadn't seen any --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Animation.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we need to take a look
at, like, what the Texas Constitution says? How do we set
these categories up to be sure we're correct?
MR. TOMLINSON: In that regard, I think I would be
moze concerned about -- about the utility use rather than
clean-up and maintenance. Because, I mean, if you have them
out there using all that air-conditioning equipment for an

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extended period of time, we have a lot more money tied up in
utility bills than we do in maintenance.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSION~BR BALDWIN: Mr. Henderson, did you want
to talk about anything?
MR. HENDERSON: Not right. now.
MRS. Hb'JtDERSQN-: We're listening..
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, assuming the --
we're not in violation of the Constitution -- maybe we should
just table it until we look at the Constitution, 'cause I
have not done that yet.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Neither have I.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, make sure of our
categories and define the categories to protect us in that
area. And if we're all right, I mean, leave them pretty much
as they're written down..~here. I.mean, is that the way we
want to proceed? Commercial enterprises, nonprofits, County
Extension programs, governments, schools, school-sponsored,
and then Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show
Association. 'Cause those are the -- and from a tracking
standpoint, that's the other purpose, is to see who's using
the facility, break it out into categories and define each
category.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think those are good categories,
and i think we can come up with -- you know, there's nothing
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that says each category has to be charged identically. We
can make that decision. But, what I'm loathe to do is to
have the taxpayers pay, whether it's utilities or
maintenance, for a special group to go out and use the
facility. As far as dollars out-of-pocket of the County's
wallet, if you want to look at it that way, Tommy makes an
excellent point. If someone goes out there and has a 3-day
event on the weekend -- it starts Friday at 4:00 and runs
through Sunday at 6:00 -- in July, we probably have a couple
of hundred dollars in electrical charges. Is it right for
the taxpayers to bear that cost for this group to go out and
have use of the County facility? Which, if it's a commercial
group -- probably not if it's nonprofit or if it's a
government group. I think my answer on that is, in all
groups, no.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's exactly the
direction I think Bill and I needed to find out, because, I
mean, right now, only one category is being charged anything.
How we know the direction. We can research a little bit more
and then develop that into a plan. We'll bring it back to
the Court.
MR. TOMLINSON: I can -- I'd like to finish. I'll
give you one example of what I think will make you understand
what I'm talking about. Six or eight years .ago, the Kerr
County Fair Association, when they first got organized and
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they were -- they wanted to have -- they wanted to have a
Kerr County float that they went around to different
communities and used their float as advertising for the Kerr
County Fair. They wanted to -- that organization wanted some
Kerr County funds to help them with this float situation. It
turned out that with -- I remember the County Attorney's
office researched the Constitution in that instance and
determined that -- that the Constitution would not allow the
County to fund that organization in any way because their
function was not permitted by the Constitution. So,
remembering that situation is what makes me say what I'm
saying.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to aaaress att
these issues.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And these government -- on
the government thing here, I see Lamar Smith and Phil Graham.
Lamar comes in, what, twice a year?
MS. BOYD: Yes.
COMMI3SIONER BALDWIN: Most of the time twice a
year. He comes through Kerrville and he has a real, live
town hall meeting.
MS. BOYD: Right, town hall meetings. But then he
also books a fundraiser -- he's got a fundraiser booked that
that's, like, normal fees.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to charge him.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's two different types
of deals.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. But the town hall
meeting, I've been to numerous of them, and I think all those
veterans that go to that thing so they can talk to their
congressman is -- I mean, they wouldn't support any kind of
charge on that thing. So, you know --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I disagree.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Because it's their taxes that's
paying for it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. They're paying their
taxes, and they want to have their congressman available to
them, and they're paying for it. That's lust the way I feel.
Phil Graham -- the only time I've seen him out there is when
he was going to kill all the fire ants in the world, and
haven't seen him since. I think it was at election time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We killed some fire ants.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, we killed a bunch of
fire ants that day. The government -- I mean, that's a
little bitty deal.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So, you're saying --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've got the direction that we
needed and we can start going the next step, and it will be
coming back again and, you know, trying to develop these,
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because a lot of these ar,e decisions that one or two
Commissioners can't make. We've got to get some direction on
philosophy.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. Moving right along,
Item No. 10 is consider and discuss ratification of agreement
for recovery of Kerr County Indigent Health records from ASO
North America, Inc. I'll take a stab at that. Tommy, you
jump in here if I get off the track.
The Auditor brought to me a situation where the third-
party administrator for Indigent Health Care had closed its
doors, and we had a period of approximately 46 hours within
which to go in and take back our records, physically take our
records, or wait until the State Insurance Board came in and
took it over and we can ask them for our records. And,
through Tommy's connections, this law firm was willing to go
in, because they were doing it for a number of other counties
and other agencies, and take our records. There wasn't time
to bring that to the Court, so I went ahead and -- and signed
the document and sent it off. We do have our records?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: They're in the possession of our
agents?
MR. TOMLIN30N: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I just need to bring this to the
Court to ratify -- we put in here a maximum of 3500 in

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expenses. I don't know what it will come out to be, but
that's our --
MR. TOMLINSON: They think around $200.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, I lust need someone -- I need a
motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So the law firm can go to
that office and get the records. Now, what do we do about
the third-party?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, from my conversation with the
party and with our Indigent Health Care Service at aid
Peterson, at the present time we're holding payments until --
until we can find an administrator. And the party that I --
that I`ve talked to about that once was with the third-party
administrators, but has formed their own business, and would
like to make a presentation to the Court whenever. And, so,
we have the opportunity to listen to them, or any other
entity that might want to make a presentation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're holding payments
to all the entities that we pay out?
MR. TOMLINSON: We don't have a lot of choice. We
don't -- as a County, we don't have the expertise to qualify
payments.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand that.
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MR. TOMLINSON: And so I think that that's, you
know, one issue that we need to expedite, is to -- to invite
players in that market to come in and talk to us about what
they can do for us.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this something that we
wait till two weeks for the next agenda to have them in here,
or do we need do that this week?
MR. TOMLINSON: No, I think we can -- you know, I
think we could, you know, search and find members that want
to do this.
JUDGE HENNEKE: How much does this cost? Is this
something we have to bid? Is this a professional service we
have to get bids for?
MR. TOMLINSON: It's a professional service, and
it's -- the price that we're paying now is a percentage.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Which comes out to how much a year?
Over $15,000?
MR. TOMLINSON: It could be.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. I mean, some years
ft is, some years it isn't. So, it is -- it is a
professional service contract, is what it amounts to.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll have to look at how the
process -- we'll have to get on that pretty quick.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll probably need a special
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meeting. We're holding up -- there's a lot of people.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm uncomfortable about
holding people's money.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Services are probably still being
provided, I would guess, by the medical professions. It's
just that our ability to pay their fees is what's being held
up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as they realize we're
not paying, they're going to start screaming loud.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they -- a lot of them have
been notified. I mean, the people over at Peterson Hospital
have notified vendors that -- that we do have this situation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe with this -- you know,
since they know they're not getting payment, they won't be
referring quite so much to Indigent Health Care.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion was made by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, to ratify the
representation agreement with Broemer and Weisblatt for the
purpose of recovery of Indigent Health Care records from ASO
North America, Inc. Any further discussion? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No responsel.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item No. 11,
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consider and discuss review of election precincts for
compliance with the Texas Election Code. Section 42.031
requires the Commissioners Court, during March or April of
each odd-numbered year, to determine whether the County
election precincts comply with certain sections of the Texas
Election Code. I have reviewed those; it's my opinion that
they do comply. You have in your book a list of the voters
in each voting precinct, none of which exceed the 85,000
maximum.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dollars?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Voter, 500 voters -- 5,000 voters
maximum.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dollar a vote?
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's right. Any discussion?
Anyone have any questions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no action required?
JUDGE HENNEKE: No, we need -- the Commissioners
Court must determine. We need a motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To determine that we are in
compliance?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Whether we are in compliance.
COMMI3SIONE LETZ: So moved.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Second by Commissioner Griffin,
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that the Commissioners Court determine that County election
precincts comply with the Election Code pursuant to Election
Code Section 42.031(a). Any further discussion? If not, all
in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we'll see what we
want to do. We do have an Executive Session item. We can
do that now, or we can come back at approximately 1:30,
because we have the public hearing on the Road Guidelines at
2 o'clock.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's come back.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should do it now,
but I don't really care.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I've got a
12 o'clock, so --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's do it at 1:30.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We have one Executive Session item,
closed session. Okay, the Court will stand in recess until
1:30, at which time we'll take up Executive Session, followed
by the public hearing on the Road Guidelines at 2 o'clock.
Thank you.
(Recess taken from 11:45 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.)
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JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we'll call back into
order the Special Session of Commissioners Court for today,
April 26th, 1999, and we will move immediately into
Executive/Closed Session.
(The open session was closed at 1:31 p.m., and an
Executive Session was held, the transcript of which
is contained in a separate document.)
(Recess taken from 1:50 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 2 o'clock on Monday, the 26th,
1999. We'll call back into session the special Commissioners
Court meeting. At this time, the Commissioners Court itself
will adjourn and we will have the public hearing on the Road
Name and Addressing Guidelines for Kerr County, as presented
by Kerr Emergency 911 Network.
(The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed
at approximately 2:01 p.m., and a public hearing
was held in open court, as follows:)
PUBLIC HEARING
JUDGE HENNEKE: We seem to be missing someone.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 911.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, 911.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He was right here.
AUDIENCE: There he is, he's coming.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Sandlin, we have opened the
public hearing on the 911 Road Name and Addressing
Guidelines. If you'd like to make a brief opening statement,
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this would be the appropriate time. If not, we'll go
directly to any comments or questions from the public.
MR. SANDLIN: I'll try to be real brief. I lust
want to point out one thing real quick, and this is speaking
very generically. I'll gust step over here and hold this.
This is contained in the guidelines. But, for the public,
our purpose in developing these guidelines, number one, is to
enhance and ensure the easy and rapid location of properties
for public safety and emergency services response. That's
the number one priority with us. However, there will be many
users of certain portions of the data, and particularly the
map. Delivery service. Mail service. This would aid
greatly when straightening up the map for school districts,
et cetera. So, it's not lust 911 people who will be using
it. Hopefully, these guidelines will expedite postal and
package delivery, facilitate public utilities -- in other
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words, better locate phone services, et cetera, assist in
determining various precincts and other boundaries, aid in
rural planning and development, and to establish official map
and street list.
The reason we're doing that -- and there is data from --
that was published on the CD-ROM in January of '98. In Kerr
County as of that time, we had 588 duplicated roads, 588 --
or duplicate road names, 40 multiple-named public roads --
and, by that, I mean I only took one of the multiples;
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otherwise, it would get more confusing. We had approximately
1,298 unnamed roads under these guidelines. A lot of those
could actually be treated as driveways and clean up the
database. Some of those are short roads that only lead to
one house and don't need to be named. And, there were 54 --
it's actually more than that. We discovered now probably
closer to 100 roads that require some other clarification,
such as proper application of suffix or what that road name
really is. And that left us with 1,108 roads that apparently
did not require any work to be compatible with the databases,
and we were for sure wanting to make sure that we were
compliant with National and State database guidelines.
For y'all's information, the State of Texas is under a
-- what they refer to as R.F.O. contract with S.E.G., which
is a communications company out of Boulder, Colorado. They
will be the central repository for 911 communications data.
In other words, the MSEG data, road name, house number, et
cetera, for the state. That's become necessary because we
have such a proliferation of these various companies, that
gives them a single contact point. They will be using the
national NINA 3 format, which states how many spaces for your
name, how many spaces for your block number, et cetera, et
cetera, et cetera, and we want to make sure we are compliant
with those. And I spoke with Cindy Guerrero of A.M.S.,
Automated Mail Services, 911 coordinator for our area with
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U.S.P.S., lust a couple hours ago, and she assures me that we
are compliant with postal standards and NINA standards.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Is there anyone from
the public in the audience who would like to make any comment
or has any questions about the proposed road name and
addressing guidelines?
MS. ROONEY: I have one question.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, ma'am. Come forward and
identify yourself for the court reporter.
MS. ROONEY: I'm -- my name is Audrey Rooney. I
live at 146 Sun Haven. When you say you have duplicate
streets within the county, aren't there cities within the
county? For example, could you have a Sun Haven in Kerrville
and Sun Haven in Ingram and not make a problem out of it?
JUDGE HENNEKE: No, that does create a problem.
MS. ROONEY: Why does it create a problem?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Because the location is not part
of the address when it comes time for 911 to work. Help me
MR. SANDLIN: It's -- we don't have the principal
of relying on telephone prefixes or zip codes or any of the
formal geo-boundaries that we formerly had. It used to say,
for instance, if this was a -- let's say there was a Sun
Haven in Ingram and there was a Sun Haven in Kerrville. We
could usually separate which was which by the telephone
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prefix; one being, for instance, Kerrville, 896, and the one
in Ingram being 367. Now that they're allowing the
competition at the local phone service, that prefix no longer
will have -- for those that are already established, it will,
but as the new phone companies come in, or ALECs, Alternative
Local Exchange Carriers, they may be assigned a block of
prefixes, and they may use 500 of those numbers in Ingram,
they may use 500 of those numbers in Center Point, they may
use 500 of those numbers in Boerne, and so the geographic
connotation of the prefix no longer exists.
And we don't have the luxury, say, of San Antonio, that
has the defined zip code boundaries. In Kerr County, as in
most -- what they refer to as R.S.A.'s, rural statistical
areas, we have zip centroids, which our centroids for our
area are the post offices, and so we don't have any defined
boundaries for which we can discern where that phone call is
coming from.
MS. ROONEY: So it doesn't make any difference what
county it's -- town it's in?
MR. SANDLIN: No, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, there are other ways --
we might want to point out that by prefixes or --
MR. SANDLIN: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: By prefixing streets,
probably what would happen is that one would become a West
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Sun Haven, in the example you're talking about; the other
would be an East Sun Haven, which then is a definitive split
as far as the 911 equipment is concerned, and there is no
ambiguity because it sees the East or West or whatever in the
prefix. So, in some cases, you may not be -- what I'm saying
is you may not have to change the name entirely. You may
lust have to add a prefix, or in some cases, a suffix, too.
Am I correct, sir?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir.
MS. ROONEY: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Anyone else?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nobody else? T.?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, go ahead. I want the
public to go.
MR. COLLINS: I'm Bill Collins, 56 Oak Drive South.
And I came up today because, about three weeks ago, a house
within 300 yards of mine caught on fire, and due to confusion
in addresses, the fire truck went someplace else. I wasn't
in town, thank goodness. When I was preparing to move here
20 years ago, I misaddressed an envelope to Oak Street. I
don't remember exactly what I used then, and the house I
addressed it to was within 100 feet of where it should have
gone. The postal department sent it back and the Postmaster
sent back a list. He says, "There's seven different Oak
.
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Streets in Kerrville," and he named them off. And he was
right, I had goofed on my address. So, all I can say is that
I'm in agreement that something ought to be done.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir, we appreciate that.
Anyone else? Is there anyone else from the public who wishes
to address us on the issue of the 911 guidelines? This is
the public hearing, which is required by law. Anyone else?
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. If there are no other
members of the public who wish to address the Commissioners
Court on the issue of the Kerr emergency 911 Road Name and
Addressing Guidelines, I hereby declare the public meeting
closed. Commissioners Court will now go back into regular
session. This is a Special meeting for Monday, April 26th,
1999.
(The public hearing was concluded at approximately
2:15 p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court
meeting was reopened.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: The next item on the agenda for the
Commissioners Court is to consider and discuss adopting the
proposed Road Name and Addressing Guidelines for Kerr County,
Texas. Mr. Griffin?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. I'm going to propose
the -- or put forward the motion that we approve the
guidelines. And I'd like to, before doing that, though,
address one question I think perhaps all of the members of
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the Court have, and many members of the public, too, and that
is, once we adopt these guidelines, what is the the next
step? What happens next? And -- and, T., I'd like to ask
you to comment on this. But, primarily, my view is that once
we adopt these guidelines, that it is my understanding that
911 will start through the unincorporated areas -- start work
through the unincorporated areas. And I'd like, maybe, a
little detail on what order you might take that in, which
geographic areas you might want to start in and that kind of
thing, and sort of bring us up to speed a little bit on how
that process will work.
And I think, because all of the -- any renamings that
are done, or any new names -- and we have many, many roads,
as you saw in the chart, that have no names at all. All of
those names must be approved by Commissioners Court. And I
think we'll want to work out a procedure whereby, on some
periodic basis, whether it's once a month or whenever you --
whatever we decide, that 911 comes forward with those
proposals, which are in accordance with the guidelines, so
that we can act to get all of those roads named, or, in some
cases, the renaming that has to be done. And I'd like to
hear a little bit of detail about how we would proceed if we
approve these guidelines.
C"
And let me make -- while you're getting up, T., let me
make one other big, important point. We know that no matter

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what -- how much pre-work you do, any time you start off into
a program like this, you're going to hit some snags and
you're going to find out that there's ways you can do things
better. And I know that the 911 Board stands ready to amend
the guidelines, if we have to do that, with our approval, and
that this is going to be a living document. In other words,
we're not going to lust cast it in stone and say, That's the
way it is forever. If there's a better way to do it, we're
going to try and work that out with 911 and have their Board
approve changes, and we'll do the same. So, with that as a
prelude, if I haven't stolen your whole thing, sort of how's
it going to work after the guidelines are in place? That's
the question.
MR. SANDLIN: If the guidelines are implemented,
one of the first steps -- and y'all will have to help me with
the timetable here -- as you stated, would be to begin
particularly the unnamed and the duplicate road name process,
clarifying those. There's lust a lot of roads out there that
we're lust not real sure what the name is and how it can be
determined. I'll use, for instance, Japonica Hills off of
Highway 39. As it winds through three or four different
plattings and replattings, the names on the streets on the
plats that were approved changed. I believe the last one I
have in my office was around 1982, and so I'm assuming that,
since that was the last plat, that is the official names,

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even though the names got mixed or got changed somewhat. And
I'm assuming that that's a good premise to operate from.
We've identified most of the unnamed roads. Like I
said, some of them, by adoption of the guidelines, will be
merely treated as driveways, and that will knock a
significant portion out. Just by merely adopting the
guidelines without the proper application of prefix and
suffixes, county-wide -- I'm including the cities in this --
it will take care of at least 68 percent of the duplicate
road names immediately.
Speaking with Ms. Guerrero this morning at A.M.S., I was
-- that's Automated Mail Services with the Post Office in San
Antonio, which covers our area. We were trying to derive a
more specific timetable as far as what the post office wants
to see from us, and all she could advise me this morning was
that they would prefer that we go on conversions and street
names by their routes, rather than if -- if it happens to fit
within one of our geo-regions, that's fine, but they would
like to see that the main routes get done first, which lust
so happened to be the boundaries for the geo-regions, so that
works out.
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She said that they are already working on it in
anticipation that local entities are going to adopt the
guidelines, and will provide -- in a confidential manner,
will provide to me and my staff, in an Excel spreadsheet
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form, the rural addresses along the route. So that all we
have to do is, if we find the actual owner who is at that
rural address and make the conversion to an urban-style
address, we type it in the spreadsheet right then and there,
and every so often, send it back to them, particularly when a
route's complete. I think some of the routes will go fairly
fast, probably just a matter of weeks on some of them.
Some of them -- some of the portions, we have big
cluster boxes and the roads spout off and go everywhere, and
there's no road names anywhere. Those numbers, naturally,
are going to take a little longer until we get to the process
of lust what steps the Post Office wants us to take on those.
I'm a little hesitant to say it will be an hour per address
or 10 minutes per address. I lust really don't know at this
point. They have revamped how -- used to, we'd have to do
this all on paper format, and they are now doing it on
computer, so that will speed things up significantly. And
we'll start tomorrow if y'all adopt them today.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: T., can I ask a question?
What's the status of the discussions with the City of
Kerrville, and the Cities of Ingram and Center Point?
MR. SANDLIN: I don't remember the exact aay -- ~L
was when Ingram had their district track meet -- Center Point
met and discussed the guidelines. And I'm lust reporting
apparently what it was, to me. At the last minute, their
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City Attorney faxed them over some changes to their order or
their ordinance that they would adopt it, and they wanted to
table it until that matter, but otherwise that was very --
they were very positive about it. Ingram met last Tuesday, I
think, but couldn't act because of lack of quorum, but I've
had very positive feedback from them. And I did meet with
City staff last Friday -- or members of City staff, and
received a very positive feedback from them.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's on the agenda for Kerrville
City Council?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes. I think, if I understand, it's
kind of a general info update for them, and that's -- I was
told to be there about 7:30 or 8:00 tomorrow night.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a couple questions --~
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- please. I'm probably the
only one in this room that does not understand this. This
driveway thing?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What you're saying is, if
it's just one road with one house on it, it's considered a
driveway and we don't name it?
MR. SANDLIN: If it's less than -- well, there's
some other options in there. Let's say that, due to terrain
or whatever, a First Responder couldn't easily spot that
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house. And I'm talking about -- you know, we've got some
dips and valleys where a house may only be 500 feet from the
road and you can't find it. We would suggest naming the road
in that situation. But, normally, if it's more or less a
straight shot and it's lust leading to one house and it's
less than a quarter mile long, we're going to suggest
treating it as a driveway, you know, not naming it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's say we're out on
Highway 91. You have Jack Burch, you have Gordon Morriss,
and you have Robby Hurt and whoever else, and they're all
driveways and they're not named. And Jack is having a heart
attack and he can't get the whole message out, and --
MR. SANDLIN: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- drops over. How do you
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know where he is?
MR. SANDLIN: Those ranches you mentioned, due to
the multiple houses that those roads lead to, we would
suggest naming those roads. Otherwise, there would be an
address posted at the gate. And if you see -- I don't know
what -- let's say that Jack lust had one house out there on
Ponderosa, and it was a short road, whatever we determined
for that gate by the tick mark. Say it was -- I'm just
making up a number -- 1320. That then he can post 1320 on
his gate. When the ambulance got there, they'd see 1320
Highway 41.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, his address in that case
would be on Highway 41?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir, at the gate.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because it's only one house
and it's obvious that that's the house, and there is a number
there where you turn in; that's where he is.
MR. SANDLIN: But, rather than being real strict
and say absolute measurements and try to be very contrite
about when we do it or don't name them, there's some
flexibility there. Because there are some -- there was one
house that we went to that the people wanted us to give them
an address. We walked around for quite a while, for 10 or 15
minutes, and we found the mailbox and everything. But, lust
due to the terrain of the house, the roof of the house was a
little bit below the level of where we were standing, about
42 feet away from the road, and there's a hedge up there.
And he had a gravel roof on top of the house, and we're on a
gravel road. And, finally, the lady came out, she was very
nice and said, "Y'all want to come down here? Here's my
house." That's one of those that's hidden from view, and
circumstances are such that that might need a road name, a
private road name.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One other thing. What about
information as we go along and update and get new names or

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renames and addressing and all that kind of thing, what about''
providing that information to the Voters Registrar?
MR. SANDLIN: We will. That's -- we already send
addressing and stuff to the County Clerk. What we already
had on that CD-ROM we distributed is in there, so they can
use it. And we also put what we believe were the existing
precincts on the thing for them.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think, also -- correct me
if I'm wrong, T., but the Postal Service, for purposes of,
you know, where we have rural routes, will -- correct me,
again, if I'm wrong, but they will -- for a period of one
year after a renaming, they -- you will -- you can get mail,
for example, at either address.
MR. SANDLIN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For a period of one year.
MR. SANDLIN: That's been -- that's from --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Same thing with large
cities. Let's say we take Hill Country Route 2, which we're
out on now, and that starts at wherever it starts on 39 and
ends on 39. And, say we start tomorrow on it. Okay. A year
from tomorrow, they will maintain a dual address database at
the post office so that they may deliver to either one.
However, at the expiration of that year, the old database
goes away. But, let's say it's three months before we can
get to HC-3. The clock doesn't start ticking on HC-3 till we
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actually start working on the check sheets and I call San
Antonio and say, start the motor.
(Commissioner Williams left the courtroom.)
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the geo-region prefixes?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those actually will be
incorporated into people's addresses? They will actually --
when I write down my address, it will say, you know, East --
every road in the east area will start with E?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's East Lane Valley, and
so everyone -- that answers my question. The prefix will be
used for everybody.
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Physical address?
MR. SANDLIN: For the physical address.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: When you get your mail at
your house?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So it will be your mailing
address, too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I forgot my other question. I
went blank. It's not real important, something about -- oh,
I know what it is. Have you figured out, evidently, whether

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it's going to take a tremendous amount of new signage to do
-- do this for the County and if you have a whole lot of
private road names?
(Commissioner Williams returned to the courtroom.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have the capacity right
now, with our current equipment, to -- I guess to do the
volume that may be anticipated? And on the rate that we
charged -- I know Road and Bridge is doing it. I lust think
we need to really encourage people to come and get new signs
made, preferably for street signs, using the County machine
to get them done so they're all uniform throughout the
county. So I think, somewhere in this process, we need to
figure out how we're going to charge for that, and try to
make it as low a charge as possible, especially with street
signs, so we can get them up everywhere.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about
public or private?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Private. We're going to have
-- I mean, most private roads don't have signs right now.
And if we're adding a whole bunch more private signs, we
really need to try to do everything we can to encourage the
the public to get signs made.
MR. SANDLIN: Remember, 911 bought that little sign
maker machine out there and supplied a whole bunch of vinyl,
the white letters to run through there. And whatever cost
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y'all would employ in that would be fine with me. That would
probably help replenish the vinyl, because that was under
that State grant we got in 19 -- end of 1996. And, I have
some monies set aside, but I couldn't replenish right now --
if that whole stock was out, I couldn't replenish it right
now in my budget.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That may be something we need
to address during our budget process, that -- you know, how
much of that cost mostly will come probably next budget year,
how much we're going to absorb from the installation of the
posts and the actual sign.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: T., I'd like to ask if you
could get Road and Bridge to try come up with a rough
estimate on how -- what kind of cost we're looking at for
those materials, or what they would -- between the two of
you, you probably could come up with a pretty good idea of
what, in the county, we have for signage requirements.
MR. SANDLIN: Right. I think -- and I don't know
what they're charging right now, but I think Truby and them
had figured out that if they lust supplied the letters, if
they went -- a private road went and bought -- the people
that were putting up the signs for a private road went and
bought their placards, I think they were charging them so
much a letter, or they would order the sign plaques for them
and apply the letters. But I don't know what they were
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charging.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't we have a color code
that goes on signage? If it's a private road, it's one
color; if it's a public road, another color?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Red and green?
MR. SANDLIN: Green, County; blue, municipal; red,
private. That's more or less a national -- nationwide
convention, though.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Any other questions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it looks good. Looks
great.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll make --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead, Buster.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a question I've had
in the back of my mind for about a month now, and I can't --
on the notification. 911 is responsible for notifying part
of it, and the County's responsible for notifying -- for some
of the notification. Help me with that. I can't remember --
MR. SANDLIN: On road-naming?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. SANDLIN: What we put in there is that, if it's
a public access road, that it would be up to the -- the
Cities or the County to make the notification.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's a public access
road, its up to the County to --
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MR. SANDLIN: Make the notifications to the
landowners, however you wish to notify them of any road name
changes. And if it's a private access road, as defined in
the guidelines, then we would make those notifications.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is only fair. And I
agree with that. I lust wanted --
MR. SANDLIN: We're lust trying to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to put everybody on
notice that that's a budget -- that's an expense, and
probably a pretty good expense.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, we kicked around some
ideas of maybe doing it and all with our mail-outs. For
example --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- tax notification
mailings. We can do that --
MR. SANDLIN: And the Internet, we can post them on
the -- on the Web site.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Essentially, we need to get
to each owner with an official notification. I know some of
the larger counties in Texas, they did it with their tax
mail-outs, and some do it with the phone companies. And the
Hill Country Telephone has agreed that, as long as it's the
size and shape that will fit in their envelopes -- like, if
we're going to do a certain group area, whether it be 367 or
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238 exchange or whatever, when we get a loop through there,
that they will allow us to include that in their mail-outs.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: T., on the unnamed roads,
like you said a moment ago, after you -- after we cull out
the single driveways to single homes, eliminate that, is
there a particular process you follow in trying to name an
unnamed road?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And what input do people
who live on that road, for example, have in that process?
MR. SANDLIN: Section 507 talks about roads that
require names.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 507?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir. It's on Page 16. And, I
won't -- I'll read the whole thing if you like, but it talks
-- we broke down four areas there of where we determined that
a road might need to be named. We're talking about an
unnamed road, now. The location of the building hinders
assignment from a named road, or the named road intersects a
road, but due to topography or distance, buildings along the
named -- excuse me, along the unnamed road are not easily
located. Here's the general one, kind of a catch-all:
Naming of the road is necessary to adequately direct
emergency responders to a building or buildings. And, anyone
-- any road that leads to one or more roads that provide

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easements to buildings shall be named. We have some cases
where there's one or two roads that spider or bifurcate that
have no houses along them; however, they lead to other roads
that do have houses on them, so it wouldn't do much good to
name the houses -- I mean, name the roads with the houses,
when you've got two roads leading to it that are unnamed.
And that's --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a question, though,
T., that if you've determined that you're going to name it --
MR. SANDLIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- you know, how do you
determine what the name is going to be? And what -- and what
input do people have who live on that road, for example, to
have some say in what that road name is?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Look on Page 18, starting with
sub-letter {g). You'll find a procedure there which is
initiated by 911 notifying all the owners of that affect --
of property on that affected road and asking them basically
to come up with a name.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Agree on the name within the
guidelines, and if they can't, then there's a process --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the answer. The
answer is that, on an unnamed road, you try to give the
owners of the property along that road as much input as
possible --


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MR. SANDLIN: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- to select a name. And if
it's not duplicated somewhere else and if it's not obscene
and those kind of things, there's every likelihood that that
would be the name that would be assigned to that road.
MR. SANDLIN: We'll sign off and bring it to y'all
and say, "This meets with the guidelines."
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And in this process, when
you're doing this, you know, I'd ask you keep each of the
Commissioners informed wherever you're doing these things,
that we're aware, so that, I'm sure, even though you're
sending out the notice, we're probably getting the first --
MR. SANDLIN: Sure, I understand.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we know where you're talking
about trying to work out a road name so we can --
MR. SANDLIN: We'll be very careful to keep y'all
or any of the other entities apprised when we're in this
area, this particular road, and we will try to -- try our
very best to keep it organized in a group. We lust don't
want to start one on the west end and start one on the east
and south; we don't want to get scattered out, because then
we'll be chasing our tails trying to keep up with ourselves.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know where you're
going to start?
MR. SANDLIN: No, sir, I don't at this time. That
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will be more or less determined by the Post Office in San
Antonio so that we get all that in line.
(Ms. Rooney handed a note to Commissioners.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: The lady raises an excellent
question, which is, if you send out the tax notification --
name changes with the tax notice, what happens about the
person whose taxes are paid by the mortgage company, through
escrow? And that's an issue we'll have to address and make
sure that there is a mechanism where the notification goes to
the property owner in one form or another. We thank you for
bringing that to our attention. We need to be aware of that.
At this point, unless there are any further questions, I
think we need to do two things. I think we need to, if we so
desire, adopt formally the Road Name and Addressing
Guidelines, and designate Kerr Emergency 911 Network as
Address Coordinator, as defined in here. And then what I
would like to suggest is that we -- we take a volunteer or
designate one of us who will sit down with the 911 folks and
come back with a timetable for presentation to the Court, if
not at the next meeting, at the following meeting, which will
give us all some sense of what it's going to take for us to
step through the process. I think I heard you say that you
would like to work on a timetable?
MR. SANDLIN: Yes, and so that we know if y'all
want monthly -- you know, if we want to set this up for
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monthly updates. You're going to say, Look, don't bring us
more than 25 roads at a time, or 10 roads, whatever you think
the parameters will be. I realize we need some flexibility
in this, because let's say that tomorrow I went out and had
25 private access roads to name. Everybody says, Hey, that's
great, that's what we're going to name our road. Well, then,
if that meets with y'all's approval, then that's a single
click and done. I can see where other times, where there's
more people involved on the roads, where it might take
longer.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, what I'd like to get first is
the motion to approve the guidelines.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And 911 is the Addressing
Coordinator.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Griffin,
seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Commissioners
Court adopt the Road Name and Addressing Guidelines as
presented by Kerr Emergency 911, and designate Kerr Emergency
911 Network as the Address Coordinator, as defined in those
guidelines. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor,
raise your right hand.
(The motion was carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we have anyone
who wants --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I will volunteer to get with
the 911 staff and work out some kind of timetable to bring
back to the Court.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Griffin is our
911 liaison. Might as well just --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You are, too.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am, too? Oh, I forgot
that part.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, don't forget that.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's just leave it up to our
liaisons with the 911 Board to -- to sit down and work with
them and get us a timetable. And I would hope that we could
have that timetable, if not at the next meeting, certainly at
the second meeting in May.
MR. SANDLIN: When's the next meeting?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Two weeks, May the 10th.
MR. SANDLIN: I should have a lot more input from
San Antonio U.S.P.S. then, and I think i'll have some more
concrete answers for you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it will be really
worthwhile for us to be able to lay out to the citizens in
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Kerr County kind of the -- the way this is going to flow.
And if you even want to say, We're going to start with this
route or this route, then people can start thinking about the
effect it may have upon them in the next several months.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other thing, also, by that
day the City of Kerrville will have looked at these, and if
this -- which is another big part of the puzzle. And the
other -- the final comment I have is that I know we have one
of the papers here right now, a reporter, Mark Lloyd. It's
going to take a lot of education to the public as to what
we're doing, and that -- I mean, 'cause basically everyone is
getting a new address in the county, because you're -- almost
everyone's address is going to change, their street number.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, Bonnie's
here with the Mountain Sun.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Both papers.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sorry. Well, I was
thinking of Mary Elizazbeth; she wasn't here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mary Elizabeth was here this
morning. And she --
MS. ARNOLD: 911 is my baby.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. Would you like
to sit up here?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm glad both papers are here.
It's something we're going to need. And I think T. may be
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able to help with putting out some press release-type things
to kind of hit the high points, maybe a series of articles
over a, you know, week or two weeks, something like that. I
don't know if that would be helpful to the papers or not, to
try to educate the whole public as to what's getting ready to
happen. 'Cause there's going to be, I'm sure, some confusion
and, you know --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, it would sure help to
have some -- like, take a section on naming of roads, of
unnamed roads, and lust how that process is going to work.
It really would be handy to get out to as many people as
possible. And the fact that -- that you've got a year's
grace period, you know, for example, with the Postal Service;
don't worry about your mail getting lost. I mean, they've
done this in very large cities with all kind of postal
requirements, and it's worked like a charm. So, I mean,
we're not having to do something that hasn't been done
before. And to get that kind of education info out, I think
it's really important. Any help we can get in that area will
be great.
MR. SANDLIN: I have some that has been prepared
and some that we have prepared locally; basically, a
frequently-asked-question type format, of questions that have
been asked. And, by the way, if I may inter3ect, I lust got
this information from State 911 today. Of the 254 counties
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in Texas, only 46 are at the final completion stage for
addressing.
MR. LLOYD: I think one issue, if I may interject,
is just to let people know if 911 is going to be knocking on
doors or calling on the telephone, so people -- if they're
going to wear any -- and if they are, how they're going to
identify themselves, just to quell any type of predatory-type
behavior from somebody who might want to sneak into a house
or ask for credit card numbers. And if I can hear it from
the horse's mouth, "The only information that 911 would
require is this," your physical address or your mailing
address, but just to let people know what they might have to
give in order to help this process go smoothly. We get calls
regularly with credit card scams and telephone scams and all
that sort of thing. So, I think, for me, that's one issue
that I would raise, just in terms of education.
MR. SANDLIN: When we -- when we went along with
the GPS map, they ran a couple of articles similar to that.
MR. LLOYD: Okay. Just to let people know.
MR. SANDLIN: A lot of that's already been done.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No need for anybody to give
their credit card number.
MR. SANDLIN: The only thing we want to know is to
verify that this person lives at this house, and verify a
phone number. We don't need Social Security, we don't care
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how many phones they've got, how many T.V.'s, what they have
stored the in the shed. None of that matters to us.
MS. ROONEY: If I may lust say one thing, I have
had so many obscene phone calls -- so many soliciting phone
calls, I do not answer anything over the phone. Absolutely
nothing. If you want to know my name, my address for 911, it
is going to have to be in writing. That's --
JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll do that, too. If there's
nothing else to come before us this afternoon --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did we vote?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, we voted.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We voted. If there's nothing else
to come before us today, we stand adjourned. Thank you all.
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:90 p.m.}

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STATE OF TEXAS 1
COUNTY OF KERR I
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place hertofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of April, 1999.
JAN~N/E~T~~/T~ ~PI~~EP_E~~R~,,~County Clerk
B Y : l lcx.' "~.L !c~'~t~t-'"cam
Kathy nik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter