1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 January 24, 2000 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X 2 January 24, 2000 PAGE 3 4 --- Commissioners' Comments 3 5 1.1 Pay Bills 7 1.2 Budget Amendments 9 6 1.3 Late Bills 12 7 2.1 Prelim. Replat, Sheppard Hills Estates 17 2.2 Prelim. Replat, 8 to 35 lots, Falling 8 Water Subdivision 30 2.3 Prelim. Replat, 8 to 13 lots, Falling Water 34 9 2.4 Final Replat, 114A & 114B, Falling Water 40 2.5 Final Replat, 57A, 61A, 62A, 63A & 63B in 10 Falling Water Subdivision 44 2.6 Final Replat, 105A & 105B, Falling Water 45 11 2.7 Final Replat, 144A, 145A, 146A, 147A & 147B in Falling Water Subdivision 46 12 2.11 Reduction of fee during Rabies Drive 47 2.12 Revision of Capital Outlay items for D.P.S. 49 13 2.13 "Power Team Week" proclamation, Feb. 7-12 52 2.20 Construction of sidewalk on Schreiner St. 55 14 2.8 Open Bids - tractor for HCYEC 56 15 ...... bid recommendation 92 2.9 Open Bids - six 4-door police vehicles 58 16 ...... bid recommendation 89 2.10 Open Proposals-lease/purchase of vehicles 60 17 ..... bid recommendation 89 18 2.14 Timetable - Subdivision Rules & Regs 63 2.16 Airport status report by Megan Caffall 67 19 2.15 Burn Ban 92 2.17 Impact of HB2169 on VFD contracts 106 20 2.18 Forming road districts w/bonding authority 108 2.22 Briefing, UGRA Regional Water Utility Plan 124 21 2.19 Schedule/process - hiring Purchasing Agent 141 2.21 Schreiner College intern 167 22 2.23 Professional services for redistricting 170 2.24 Elimination of non-operative generator 177 23 1.4 Monthly Reports 183 24 -- Reporter's Certificate 184 25 3 1 On Monday, January 24, 2000, at 9:00 a.m, a Special 2 Session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held 3 in the Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. It's 7 9 o'clock on Monday, January 24th, Year 2000, and we'll 8 call to order this Special Session of Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court. Commissioner Williams, I believe you 10 have the honors this morning. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe I do. 12 Please rise. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: The first item on the 15 agenda is the citizens' comments. If there's any citizen 16 who wishes to address the Court on an item that's not on 17 the agenda, please come forward at this time. Is there 18 anyone who would like to address the Court on an item 19 which is not listed on the regular agenda? Seeing no one, 20 we'll move to the Commissioners' comments. Let's start 21 with Commissioner Letz this morning. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Surprise. I think I'd 23 just like to offer thanks to everyone in the community 24 that participated in the stock show over the weekend. A 25 number of County employees that put in many, many hours 4 1 out there. It was a great event. Junior Livestock had 2 another record sale total. It was right at almost half a 3 million dollars. It was a great event for those that 4 attended, and I'd just like to commend everyone that was 5 involved with that. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, and I would 7 like to echo that, and -- and indicate that it was a great 8 privilege for me to take part in my first one. I learned 9 a lot about lambs I didn't know before. But, Commissioner 10 Baldwin says that I was lucky because I went straight to 11 lambs without having to do swine first. So -- but, 12 anyway, thank you, Commissioner Baldwin. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're quite 14 welcome. You'll see a resolution soon that says new guys 15 don't go straight to sheep and cows. You have to serve 16 with the hogs before you can go to the top of the line. 17 (Laughter.) 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I, likewise, 19 ditto what the gentlemen said down there. You know, 20 that's one area where we serve as a Commissioners Court in 21 our community that we're not getting money, we're not 22 getting votes. We're simply there serving -- serving the 23 youth, and it is a pleasure and it's an honor. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would echo all of 25 that, and also point out that I think our staff Facilities 5 1 Use and Maintenance people did an excellent job under most 2 trying circumstances. And, Commissioner Letz and I are 3 privileged to chair this special planning committee on how 4 we can improve that facility, and after seeing all the 5 folks out there, that place was maxed out over the 6 weekend, and all the animals and all the problems incurred 7 and all the traffic and all the trailers and whatever, 8 it's pretty clear to me that we need to be thinking 9 positively about how that facility can be expanded and 10 made better. And, I echo Commissioner Baldwin, it was a 11 privilege to do that, and I learned a little about steers 12 and heifers too. Without having to pass swine and pay 13 $200 and pass go. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, $200, that might 15 work. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I'm totally in accord 17 with the idea of having a policy that new people have to 18 start with swine, as long as it applies prospectively, not 19 retroactively. Grandfathered-in. It was a great time 20 this weekend. We had a good event. I don't understand 21 how they can judge all those animals. I mean, the minute 22 distinctions that they draw between this steer and that 23 steer and this heifer and that heifer -- it boggles my 24 mind that someone can actually draw those kind of 25 distinctions and do it legitimately and professionally. 6 1 And, I think that -- I'm glad I wasn't in the position of 2 judging, simply announcing. Our thanks again to the 3 maintenance people. Also to our County Agent, Eddie 4 Holland, and his folks, Janie Squire and Laurinda Boyd, 5 for all the hard work they do. And it's remarkable that a 6 community our size has what I believe is the third largest 7 junior livestock show -- fifth largest junior livestock 8 show in the state. And, that's pretty remarkable. I also 9 want to thank the Family Literacy Program, Schreiner 10 College, and Kelly Foundation for the Parenting with Love 11 and Logic seminar they put on out at Schreiner College 12 Thursday evening, and also the all-day seminar Friday. As 13 juvenile judge, one of my tasks is to improve parenting 14 skills, and I like to send parents of kids who get in 15 trouble to parenting classes. I wish I could have sent 16 all the ones I've had to that one on Thursday. Thanks to 17 them for bringing that -- Dr. Jim Gray to this -- to our 18 community, and here comes Mr. Holekamp with a light. 19 Looking for an honest commissioner. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that makes 22 a good smell. Hope so. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Hope so. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: For all the good things 25 we've been saying about the Maintenance Department out at 7 1 the Ag Barn, maybe we won't comment about the Maintenance 2 Department at the courthouse today. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Killing rodents. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Killing rodents, that's 5 right. Maybe they ought to do it outside. Next item on 6 the agenda is to pay the bills. Anyone have any questions 7 about the bills as presented and recommended by the 8 Auditor? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a couple, 10 Judge. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On Page 1, under 13 your -- your set of bills, as well as the Commissioners 14 Court. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The lease copier. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That totals up to -- 19 and I'm assuming this is a one-month bill? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we really and 22 truly pay $255 a month for a copier? You're shaking your 23 head yes. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, we do, and that's down 25 about $100 a month from last year. 8 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you look at 2 these -- you know, we're paying them throughout the -- the 3 County system; it's not anywhere near that much. Okay. 4 Just seems like an awful lot of money this morning. And 5 then, on Page 14, the only bills on that page -- and I see 6 that that's a December payment and a January payment, and 7 normally -- normally we make our payments, like library 8 payments, to the City of Kerrville on a quarterly basis. 9 (Mr. Tomlinson shook head negatively.) 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We send them $28,000 13 every month it rolls around? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's a total 16 of -- I can't remember. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About $325,000, 18 $350,000. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Almost $400,000. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, 325 -- about 21 325. It's half of what the total is, right? The 22 operation of the library. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We just missed 25 December? 9 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know what happened. 2 We just happened to have two bills to pay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay, that 4 was all. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Move we pay the 7 bills. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Williams -- I mean Commissioner Griffin, second by 11 Commissioner Williams, that we approve payment of the 12 bills as recommended by the Auditor. Any further 13 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 18 amendments. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, I have three today. 20 First one is for the Tax Assessor/Collector. I have a 21 request to transfer $6.67 out of Miscellaneous into Books, 22 Publications, and Dues. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 10 1 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve Budget 2 Amendment Request No. 1 for the Tax Assessor/Collector's 3 office. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor, 4 raise your right hand. 5 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is for the County 10 Court at Law. This is a request from Judge Brown to 11 transfer $495.70 of out of his Court-Appointed Attorney 12 line item to the Special County Court at Law Judge. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you know what that's 14 for? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I have -- it's for a judge 16 that came here for -- from Del Rio to -- to hear a case. 17 The case number, I believe, is -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Tommy, can you bend 19 the mic down just a little bit? I'm sure it's -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: What I have here does not 21 have a name. So, I -- I mean, defendant or plaintiff's 22 name, so I don't know who it was for. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- the line 25 427-415, Special Judge, did we not put -- was that zeroed 11 1 out in the budget? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Apparently. That's -- 3 that's a rare case for this Court. I think they just 4 didn't budget for this. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have a motion on 6 that? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not yet. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- third. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 11 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, to approve Budget 12 Amendment Request No. 2 for the County Court at Law. Any 13 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 14 right hand. 15 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 3 is for the 20 payment of our property insurance, and it's between Animal 21 Control and Environmental Health. And I'm requested that 22 we transfer $139 from Environmental Health Insurance line 23 item to Rabies and Animal Control Insurance line item. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 12 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 2 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we 3 approve No. 3 for Rabies and Animal Control. Any further 4 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we have 9 any late bills, Tommy? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, I do. First one is 11 from Hill Country Telephone Co-op. It's a monthly bill 12 from -- for J.P. 4 for $17.05. It came in late. We 13 didn't get it in, so I wanted to pay that with a hand 14 check. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 18 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve a 19 hand bill in favor of Hill Country Telephone Co-op -- late 20 bill in favor of Hill Country Telephone Co-op. Any 21 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 22 right hand. 23 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 13 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: The next one is the long 3 distance from Hill Country Telephone for J.P. 4, and it's 4 for $32.19. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 8 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve a 9 handbill payable to Hill Country Telephone Co-op for long 10 distance services to J.P. 4. Any further discussion? If 11 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The next one is to 17 Five Star Wireless. This is for J.P. 3 for $36.75. It's 18 the December bill is what it is. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: J.P. 3? 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 24 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve a late 25 bill payable to Five Star Wireless for J.P. 3. Any 14 1 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 2 right hand. 3 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Carries. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Next one is to a 8 firm called J.I. Special Risks Insurance Agency, and it's 9 to -- it's for the liability coverage for the above-ground 10 fuel tanks for Road and Bridge. And it's for $524. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. That's the 13 one -- we budgeted for this, or we had an amendment some 14 time ago. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Right, you approved that 16 when you approved the insurance. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 18 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we 19 approve the late bill for additional insurance to cover 20 liability for above-ground fuel storage tanks. Any 21 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 22 right hand. 23 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 15 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The next one is for 3 David Billeiter at the Sheriff's office. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What, Tommy? What 5 was the item? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: David Billeiter, a person 7 in the Sheriff's Office. It's to reimburse him for school 8 expenses. It's for Mobile Video Instructors Course for 9 $300. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve a 14 hand bill in amount of $300 payable to David Billeiter for 15 reimbursement of education expenses. Any further 16 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 17 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The next one is to 22 Hampton Inn. It's a hotel in Houston for -- for lodging 23 for a deputy to go to a training school there. It's 24 $261.96. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many days? 16 1 MR. TOMLINSON: The 13th to the 16th of 2 February. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's about right. 4 So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve a 8 late bill for lodging expenses in connection with training 9 for Sheriff's deputy. Any further discussion? If not, 10 all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The last one is near 16 and dear to me. It's for my expenses to Software Group 17 Technology Forum, which was last -- last week, the 18th 18 through the -- actually, Tuesday through Friday, for 19 $179.47. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 24 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve a 25 late bill payable to County Auditor for expenses in 17 1 connection with seminar -- technology seminar. Any 2 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 3 right hand. 4 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Let's now 8 turn to the consideration agenda. The first item on the 9 agenda is consider and discuss the preliminary replat of 10 Tract 4, Sheppard Hills Estates, Precinct 1. Commissioner 11 Baldwin. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At first view of 13 this plat, it's a 200 -- 2.78 acres that they want to cut 14 out of there. My only question is that the Subdivision 15 Rules and Regs call for two and a half acres or more to 16 have a 200-foot frontage. This only shows a hundred -- 17 less than a hundred foot. There's 200 foot required. 18 And, visiting with the County Engineer, he seems to have 19 an answer to that question to change it up a little bit, 20 to make it fit the rules and regulations, and I'll turn it 21 over to Franklin Johnston at this time. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: I have a -- I have an 23 answer, but I think the owner would like to make the 24 presentation first, and then we'll get into this. 25 Good morning, gentlemen. 18 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Morning, Mr. Porter. 2 THE WITNESS: First time doing this, so 3 it's new to me. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We got fresh meat 5 here. 6 Yeah, you got a live one here. What 7 we're -- what I evidently neglected to put on here was 8 asking for a variance for this less than 200-foot 9 frontage. What -- the way this -- if I could go back a 10 little bit, the way this got started, my son Scott, who 11 has been here for seven years, bought this property with 12 the intent of dividing it so we could both -- we -- I 13 could live -- the old folks could live with him and his 14 family on one plot. We didn't know -- or didn't know at 15 that time that we needed 200 foot frontage, so we've gone 16 through and Mr. Johnston talked to him about replatting 17 this, and then he informed us that there was a limitation 18 of 200 feet. So, what we're asking for -- and evidently 19 it was my fault in not getting it on the agenda today -- 20 was a variance for that. My wife and I are going to live 21 there; we're retiring there one of these days, and that's 22 pretty much where we stand right now. I don't know 23 what -- and Mr. Johnston has an alternative that we can do 24 if -- if possible, that he, I believe -- would you like 25 to mention -- 19 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, we'll go into that. 2 Okay. That's where we stand right now. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a legal 4 question here, I guess. Can we address a variance if it's 5 not on the agenda as a variance? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Probably not. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a preliminary 8 plat. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Preliminary plats, you can 10 make changes and make -- you know, we can get them a 11 letter. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Final plat, I would 13 agree. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Do the final variance on the 15 final plat, but we can give them a direction, I think. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your residence is 17 going to be on Tract 4-B? 18 Yes, sir. The other -- the other -- the 19 question I had is, we -- we will have nothing -- and this 20 is -- I don't know the answer. We will have a driveway, 21 naturally, to get back to our house. And, could we have 22 an easement -- a permanent easement from our drive for the 23 other property, or is there some other solution to the -- 24 to two drives in the one 200-foot area? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could -- I mean, 20 1 could you put one drive and then, when you get into your 2 property, split it in two? 3 Yes, sir. Yes, sir, very easily. As a 4 matter of fact, when we first laid it out, that's what we 5 considered, is one entrance for both properties. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, that would give 7 you about 245 feet of frontage. 8 Yes, sir. That was the original intent. 9 And -- and anyhow, regardless of the -- we weren't aware 10 of the variance on the 200-foot, but the original intent 11 was one drive would service both properties and -- and be 12 a permanent easement onto the other property. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would work, I 14 think. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Some methodology where, you 16 know, if one lot sells to another person, it will still be 17 that way, and then there won't be -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Won't need to be a 19 deeded easement. 20 Yes, sir, right. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like for y'all 22 to see Franklin's idea, just -- just kind of for future 23 reference, his thinking and how it -- how it -- Franklin, 24 would you -- 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Y'all have a copy of that 21 1 drawing? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah -- oh. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Did I give you one? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It doesn't matter, 5 I've got it right here. The cul-de-sac -- 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, a matter of putting in 7 a section of -- actually, just a right-of-way, 16 foot 8 with a cul-de-sac at the end, would give everybody, you 9 know, frontage in accordance with the Subdivision Rules. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then that 11 complies with the Rules and Regulations. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: This is the same area 13 you're -- where you're putting in a driveway, anyway. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a 15 cul-de-sac coming in off of Spanish Oak Drive, right? 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. Be a 17 privately-owned -- he'd still own it, but it would just be 18 a separated-out little -- little right-of-way. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- so, it would be 20 a private road. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically the same -- 23 MR. JOHNSTON: Then we won't have the 24 adequate frontage problem. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Except we won't be 22 1 granting any variances. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we did right-of-way, 3 not variance. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One driveway to 5 split inside of the property, that's not a variance. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: The road would be a country 7 lane, which would be a gravel lane 16 foot wide, meet the 8 requirements -- 9 It's -- on that, I would -- since I'm going 10 to have to foot the cost, I'd rather not build a short 11 county road; I'd rather have the access -- permanent 12 access, but if that's -- 13 MR. JOHNSTON: It would be a private road; 14 wouldn't be a county road. 15 I would have to build it to County specs, I 16 understand. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 18 So, for that reason, I would rather have 19 the variance, but I understand if that's not possible, we 20 could go the other way. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if we did a 22 single driveway, it wouldn't require a variance. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, you don't 24 need a variance. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, not a variance, but 23 1 we would require that it be a deeded easement. 2 Deeded easement. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: An easement that no -- that 4 there would be no other access off of that frontage. 5 That would be no problem to us at all, 6 Judge. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not a variance, per se, but 8 they're going to have to restrict access to that one 9 entry. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cost-wise, I don't 11 think it would be that much difference. The road you'd 12 have to build -- I mean, the County rules are very -- 13 it -- you wouldn't build any lesser road, I wouldn't 14 think, anyway. 15 For a drive, normally -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very minimal. It's 17 base material and 16 feet wide to stay to code. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: What you build for a 19 driveway. 20 Is it -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way, it doesn't 22 make any difference. I think either one accomplishes it. 23 Then, I guess that's the -- my next 24 question is, I -- again, being new, where do I go from 25 here, since it was not on the docket for today, the 24 1 variance? Do I come back to the next -- do we come back 2 to the next court and -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think on the 4 preliminary, we can go ahead and -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Preliminary, correct. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- leave here 7 understanding what's going to be done. 8 Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can't we go ahead 10 and approve the preliminary plat, and then expect to see 11 the final plat, as we understand the rules and regs as we 12 just discussed them -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With the permanent 15 deeded easement. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: We're not asking for -- like 17 it's drawn there. It would be -- be a deeded easement. 18 It would be referenced on the plat. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just -- I mean, I 20 think the condition is that the final plat will have a 21 single ingress and egress to the property, whether you do 22 a deeded easement or you do a -- a private road. That's 23 the -- we can give that approval. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we 25 1 approve preliminary replat of Tract 4, Sheppard Hills 2 Estates. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per -- as per the 5 discussion. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As per the 7 discussion. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: As part that of that, since 10 it's a replat, do we need a public hearing for -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 12 MR. JOHNSTON: Normally, that's how we do 13 it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I know, but when 15 I was going through the Subdivision Rules and 16 Regulations -- I've been researching things, 17 unfortunately, or fortunately, and in my research I came 18 across a letter that probably I requested in 1997, since I 19 got the copy of it, regarding revision of plats and 20 whether there's only one section in the Local Government 21 Code that applies to revision of plats, 232.009. And, Tom 22 Pollard -- the final sentence says, "Insofar as counties 23 are concerned, it appears that public hearings are not 24 required for revision of plats." That language has not 25 changed in recent revisions. And -- you know, so I would 26 1 say no, there is no public hearing. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: It's kind of two issues. 3 There -- one's on public hearing, and one of them is 4 notification by certified letter of none -- of other 5 owners in the subdivision. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, from what 7 Pollard -- Tom Pollard's memo says, that provision, which 8 includes all of that language, does not apply to counties 9 of our population or our situation, and that is because 10 there is a -- the language goes into -- well, I'll 11 read -- yeah, 1.45. It's in the -- I'll read that first 12 paragraph. "Insofar as counties are concerned, it appears 13 public hearings are not required for revision of plats." 14 Article 232.009 of the Property Code -- that should be 15 Local Government Code -- copy enclosed, clearly requires 16 public hearings for any revision of plat, but only for 17 real property which lies outside municipalities of 1.5 18 million population or in the E.T.J., and he feels that 19 does not apply to counties of our population. 20 MR. JOHNSTON: It says public hearing, but 21 without notification of other owners in the subdivision. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That whole -- if you 23 read that section, the first item, A, before the first 1.5 24 million, so nothing else is going to apply. You know that 25 whole section does not apply. 27 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I see it a 2 little bit different. I can see two different issues 3 here. The notification is in there, in my opinion, for a 4 reason, and that's to notify the other property owners 5 that something's taking place in their neighborhood, and 6 I'm all for that. I think that we should -- that they 7 should be notified and alerted to something, maybe, that 8 they would just approve of, or just give them the 9 information that something's changing, things are changing 10 in the neighborhood. And, I -- I like the notification 11 part of it. But, if the attorney says that it's out the 12 window, it's out the window, but would I certainly be in 13 favor of putting it back in somewhere else, 'cause I like 14 the notification part. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: But it's in our Subdivision 16 Rules; this part doesn't show up in there. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: I guess it probably should 19 have, but maybe -- 20 But if I understand the comments there, 21 the -- it's strictly a notification; has nothing to do 22 with the variance. Is that correct? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 24 Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a whole 28 1 separate issue. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And related to that, we 3 passed an order on the 10th of August, 1998, Order 25485, 4 which says, basically, this type of plat, if you're not 5 building a county road -- it depends, I guess, how you do 6 this -- requires no notice or public hearing, no 7 notification. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We passed that 9 ordinance? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This Court did, yes. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: So, amending the plat, I 12 think it has to be in the deed restrictions that it's 13 allowable. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is why we're 15 redoing our Subdivision Rules right now. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We may want to save 17 this till after we do your -- your item. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with you, 19 Commissioner Baldwin. I think -- I mean, it's good to do 20 it, and it's -- it comes down to whether you're affecting 21 the interest of, you know, the other interested owners in 22 the subdivision. If you cancel a road, clearly, you have 23 to -- or, you know, canceling a portion of subdivision, 24 you clearly have to have regulations, have notification 25 and a hearing. But, on a revision -- and our rules for 29 1 minimum by the Court Order don't require it. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do we have a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a motion on 4 the table to approve the preliminary plat. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I seconded, as per 6 our discussion. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 9 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we 10 approve the preliminary plat -- replat of Tract 4, 11 Sheppard Hills Estates, with the understanding that there 12 will be a single method of ingress and egress into -- 13 what? 14 Tract 4. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Into Tract 4 and Tract 16 4B -- Tract 4A and Tract 4B. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have one other 18 comment. Do the rules of the subdivision permit this? Do 19 your Subdivision Rules permit the -- 20 Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the only 22 question I had. 23 Minimum number of two and a half acres. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty similar to 25 the one we did a couple weeks ago on Precinct 2. 30 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 2 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 7 Thank you, gentlemen. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item No. 2, 10 which is consider the preliminary replat of 8 lots -- 11 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 122, and 141, in Falling 12 Water, Precinct 3 -- to 35 lots. Commissioner Letz. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is going to -- 14 actually, the next six agenda items are in Falling Water 15 Subdivision, and we split them up this way, one at a time, 16 because it gets -- last time we got very confused trying 17 to do them all at one time. It is a large subdivision 18 with some revisions, and I'll probably turn it over to 19 Franklin and we'll just comment as we go. 20 MR. JOHNSTON: On this one, they're divided 21 up into adequately-sized lots. There's two comments I 22 had. There's two roads that come together at 23 significantly sharper angles than a 90-degree 24 intersection, and that was the only two areas I had. 25 Perhaps the surveyor or developer might have comments on 31 1 those. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: I think it might be marked 3 on your plat, or if not -- 4 MR. CRENWELGE: Good morning, guys. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead and identify 6 yourselves. 7 MR. CRENWELGE: Dale Crenwelge, and 8 everybody knows Don Voelkel. What we're doing with this 9 first agenda item, 2.2, was taking those eight lots, which 10 consist of about 200 acres -- and this was a portion of 11 the subdivision that the original developer kind of just 12 stopped, okay? They -- they went overhead utilities, and 13 he had enough money in the deal -- or more than he wanted 14 to put in the development, he just stopped and just made 15 some large lots back here. And, I was here with Don in 16 October, and we were redoing some -- we had some replats 17 on the agenda that we had final plats on. But, what we're 18 doing here is, just basically, we're going to be taking 19 the overhead utility lines down and putting them 20 underground, and then extending some roads. And these -- 21 this preliminary on these angles, it's real rough. We're 22 going to be modifying the curvature of these streets to 23 more suitable radiuses. But, that's the gist of that 24 agenda item. I own all that land and all that -- that 25 whole area back there. 32 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comments on this 2 are -- it's the roads. They need to be, you know, either 3 curved into angles that -- so we don't have cutbacks like 4 you have, and I know that the -- the topography is 5 difficult in areas, but I think that's something you have 6 to look at and get Franklin's approval. 7 MR. CRENWELGE: Yeah, they're going to -- 8 roads are going to be -- this is, I guess, preliminary. 9 We've had Joey Dianski (sic) out there and we're trying to 10 maybe even change these roads slightly so they're -- to 11 eliminate as much scarring as possible. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: Just a little section there 13 to get it like that. 14 MR. CRENWELGE: But we're trying -- we're 15 going to adjust these roads to eliminate moving any trees 16 or a great deal of scarring on the property. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we are -- I 18 mean, I'm very reluctant to grant variances in areas of 19 road intersections. I think if we -- from a safety 20 standpoint, it's something that we really need to 21 maintain, is when they do have intersections, have 22 90-degree angles. 23 MR. CRENWELGE: We plan on following the 24 County Subdivision Ordinance. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then, on the other 33 1 ones, we'll make cutbacks not more than -- or not, I 2 guess -- 3 MR. CRENWELGE: That really refers to 2.2 4 and 2.3 on the agenda. Those are the ones that we're 5 going to require are the two preliminary plats this 6 morning that require roads to be built. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with 8 this one, subject to working out the road problems, the 9 acreage size, and also we will require a letter from 10 T.N.R.C.C. to insure adequate water supply. 11 MR. CRENWELGE: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other than that -- 13 MR. CRENWELGE: That's the situation on 14 2.3, also. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's do one at a time; 16 makes it easier. I make a motion that we approve the 17 preliminary plat for the lots stated in 2.2, subject to 18 having the road intersections close to 90-degree angles 19 and the curvatures worked out to the satisfaction of the 20 County Engineer, and that we have a letter from T.N.R.C.C. 21 regarding the water system. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a replat? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a replat. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that 25 motion. 34 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 2 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve the 3 preliminary replat of Lots 116, 117, 118, 119, 120, 121, 4 122, and 141 of Falling Water in Precinct 3 to 35 lots, 5 subject to reconfiguration of the intersections and also 6 subject to receipt of a letter from the Executive Director 7 of T.N.R.C.C. certifying that the public water system is 8 equate to service the increased number of lots. Any 9 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 10 right hand. 11 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll go on to Item No. 3, 15 which is consider preliminary replat of Lots 34, 41, 42, 16 43, 44, 45, 46, and 47 of Falling Water Subdivision into 17 13 lots. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same map? 19 MR. CRENWELGE: It's a different map. It's 20 taking 8 lots and creating 13 lots. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Franklin, any comments? 22 MR. JOHNSTON: Only comments I have against 23 the road is road alignment on the one street. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just the -- 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Severe turnaround. This is 35 1 only one lot. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: The road also appears to 4 divide a lot. 5 MR. CRENWELGE: No, that's going to all be 6 one lot. 7 MR. VOELKEL: On the right side will be 8 just one tract. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: This little yellow piece on 10 the left side -- 11 MR. CRENWELGE: This is only going to be 12 one lot right here. 13 MR. VOELKEL: Is that what you're talking 14 about, Judge? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it looks like these 16 two are at least two different lots. 17 MR. VOELKEL: No, all of that on that side 18 is on this side of the road. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is all one tract? 20 MR. VOELKEL: Those will be. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Those will be? 22 MR. VOELKEL: One tract on each side. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Again, you know, I 24 think my comments -- 25 MR. VOELKEL: This may make it a little 36 1 more clear. There is one tract here, and then this is two 2 tracts dividing right here. You see that; yours already 3 shows that. Two tracts, one here and one here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, yeah. 5 MR. VOELKEL: And the one place talking 6 about the main road -- you don't have it, Bill? You can 7 see how this is all in one -- almost two tracts. The 8 place where Franklin was concerned was right at that 9 intersection. This tract was already sold, and the road 10 is just going to follow that line and get around. And, 11 what I did on the preliminary was use some -- put a 12 cul-de-sac there, just to make it easier to get around 13 that -- that corner, because there's no way we can cut 14 that corner, because he doesn't own that tract -- this 15 tract. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 17 MR. VOELKEL: And, what -- what we can do 18 is get out there with Franklin and the road builder and 19 see how that will look on the ground and see if it's 20 something that's traversable easily. If not, then we'll 21 have to come up with some other configuration, but 22 that's -- that's the main concern, I think, that Franklin 23 had. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What kind of 25 traffic circle do you envision there to keep people 37 1 traveling on the right lanes instead of cutting across? 2 MR. VOELKEL: Just probably putting in a 3 large cul-de-sac-type turn. People can drive wherever 4 they're going to drive, but what we can do is look at it 5 on the ground and come up with some way to get around that 6 corner. Because he doesn't own that tract on the left. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I understand 8 that point. I'm just saying you're creating a circle and 9 you're calling it a cul-de-sac, and you would logically 10 think that people would drive to the right as they 11 traverse. Knowing humans as we do, we know they won't do 12 that, so my question is, what are you going to do to keep 13 people in the right lane as they make -- as they are 14 traversing that circle to stay where they belong? 15 MR. VOELKEL: About all I can think of is 16 maybe striping it so that there's at least something on 17 the ground that -- showing them where they're supposed to 18 go. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or put a huge 20 boulder in the middle. 21 MR. CRENWELGE: Four lots past that point 22 right there, four lots. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I tend to agree 24 with Commissioner Williams; I don't like the cul-de-sac 25 too much. I mean, it seems to me that that road could be 38 1 pulled back into Lot -- that's 3.1 acres. Maybe reduce 2 the size of that lot a little bit and make it more of a 3 90-degree corner, and then curve it back over -- I mean, 4 put a 90 there, then curve it around. I mean -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I understand what you're 6 saying. 7 MR. CRENWELGE: The reason we're putting it 8 right there is it would be hardly visible from anywhere in 9 subdivision. It's kind of a bunch of trees and cedars, 10 and if you put it here, you'll be able the see the road. 11 It's kind of screened down there in the bottom. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My preference would be 13 to let it be seen, which may not be -- it just is a safety 14 problem. A cul-de-sac isn't going to work; people are 15 going to still cut that corner. You may not be able to 16 get to a 90-degree corner, but you can certainly, I think, 17 improve it a little bit. I'm -- 18 MR. CRENWELGE: This is probably one of 19 the -- this preliminary plat may -- we may not even go to 20 final plat on this, depending upon the expenditure of that 21 road, 'cause we're not really adding very many lots. 22 We're just trying to clean things up. We may not go to 23 final plat, depending upon what my construction costs come 24 in on that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If y'all convince 39 1 Franklin that it's a safe intersection, that -- I'd be 2 willing to listen, but it's pretty severe right now. 3 MR. CRENWELGE: We have signs posted 4 through the subdivision on the curvature and the steepness 5 of the grades and -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, I make a 7 motion for preliminary plat approval, subject to the 8 County Engineer agreeing to the road configuration and 9 subject to obtaining the letter from T.N.R.C.C. regarding 10 adequate water supply. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 13 seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve the 14 preliminary replat of Lots 34, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, and 15 47 of Falling Water Subdivision into 13 lots, subject to 16 the County Engineer's approval of the configuration of the 17 road and subject to receipt of a letter from the Executive 18 Director of T.N.R.C.C. that there's adequate capacity in 19 the existing public water supply system to service the 20 additional lots. Any further discussion? If not, all in 21 favor, raise your right hand. 22 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4 40 1 is consider the final replat of Lot 114 of Falling Water 2 Subdivision to Lots 114A and 114B, and consider a variance 3 to the 200-foot lot frontage requirement. Don? 4 MR. CRENWELGE: I've talked to Jonathan 5 about this and talked to Franklin about this. We have two 6 variances stated. In 2.4 we were asking for a variance on 7 lot frontage. In 2.7 we're asking for a variance on 8 lot -- on 2.7, we've come back in -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's do them one at a 10 time. 11 MR. CRENWELGE: Basically, we're not going 12 to have to ask for a variance on 2.7, okay? We're not 13 going to ask for a variance. But, on Lot 114, that's a 14 20-acre tract, and that has approximately 140 foot of 15 frontage. It's 20-acre tract. There's really only two 16 home sites on that entire tract. You can't say, "Well, 17 let's go ahead and build a cul-de-sac in there and let's 18 create three 7-acre tracts. There's really only two 19 building sites on that parcel. Sp, I mean we could sell 20 it as it is, but it would be a lot more salable, and I 21 think it would enhance the subdivision more by having two 22 10-acre parcels there. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have Lots -- has 115 24 and 113 sold? 25 MR. CRENWELGE: Water tower -- the water 41 1 tower is on 113. 113 has sold; 115 has not sold. On 113, 2 there's a water tower right on the corner there. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I notice where final 4 plat approval is on there. I mean, I can understand the 5 reason for not wanting to build, 'cause if you could pull 6 that line over, you could probably -- 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: My concern -- 9 MR. CRENWELGE: I'm sorry, 115 is sold; 113 10 is not sold. There's a water tower on 113; that's where 11 the water tower is. 113 is -- we have water towers right 12 there on 113. That's where the water tower is, on 113. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there any reason why 14 we couldn't have a single entrance? 15 MR. CRENWELGE: Yeah, we could do a single 16 entrance, have them split. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: 14B, and then -- 18 THE WITNESS: We could do that. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what we did with the 20 previous gentleman, Mr. Porter. 21 MR. CRENWELGE: We could do that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be my 23 preference, again. I mean, that's -- 24 MR. CRENWELGE: That would be fine. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that 42 1 requires a variance, because that's -- as long as it's 2 deeded easement. 3 MR. VOELKEL: You mean put it on the plat, 4 like a 60-foot easement's going in, 30-foot on each side 5 of that line? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's fine. Any 7 way you do it, as long as there's a deeded easement to 8 both, you know. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Get the easements recorded, 10 then show that reference on the final plat. 11 MR. CRENWELGE: We can do that. 12 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: That way you've got one 14 entrance off the road. 15 MR. VOELKEL: What did you want to do, 16 branch it -- 17 MR. CRENWELGE: Building site's back there, 18 about 300 or 400 feet, so it -- yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably. 20 MR. CRENWELGE: It would look better, I 21 think. Anyway, it would look better. We were talking 22 about that when y'all were talking about the signs. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Since this is final plat 24 approval, you don't -- I think if you accomplish that and 25 bring it back -- or do it today? 43 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we could do it, 2 subject to that change. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can't -- you 4 can't sign it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't sign it. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Until we have that deeded 7 easement reflected on both drawings, and I want it to be a 8 note. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Have it recorded and have a 10 note on there. 11 MR. VOELKEL: I can -- I mean, I'm just 12 hearing what you're saying. I -- what I can do is revise 13 that plat, get a new film, get the signatures, and then 14 get it back to Franklin and the Judge to sign after these 15 changes have taken place. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion to 18 that effect. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 21 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve the 22 final replat of Lot 114 of Falling Water Subdivision to 23 Lots 114A and 114B, subject to showing on the plat a 24 deeded easement, single entrance from Settlers Way serving 25 both lots. Correct? 44 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further discussion? If 3 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item No. 5 8 is to consider the final replat of Lots 57, 61, 62, and 63 9 to Lots 57A, 61A, 62F, 63F and 63B. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Franklin? 11 MR. JOHNSTON: I have no problem with this 12 one. Recommend approval. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm going to assume on all 14 of these that we have the letter from T.N.R.C.C. on the 15 public water system. 16 MR. CRENWELGE: T.N.R.C.C. gave us a letter 17 that said we had enough water capacity for 225 home sites. 18 We'll never even have -- probably the most home sites is 19 probably 160. But, yeah, you will have a letter. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we approve final 21 replat of Lots 57, 61, 62, 63, to Lots 63A, 61A, 62F, 63F, 22 63B. 23 MR. VOELKEL: That should say -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that right? 25 MR. VOELKEL: 62A and 63A, and not F. 45 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no F on the 2 plat. 3 MR. CRENWELGE: Yeah, 63A. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 62A, too. 5 MR. VOELKEL: 62A and 63A and B. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have a second? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 10 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve the 11 final replat of Lots 57, 61, 62, and 63 to Lots 57A, 61A, 12 62A, 63A, and 63B. Any further discussion? If not, all 13 in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Moving 18 right along, Item No. 6 is consider the final replat of 19 Lot 105 to Lot 105A and 105B, Falling Water Subdivision. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This, again, is very 21 straightforward, dividing one lot into two lots. So 22 moved. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 25 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve the 46 1 final replat of Lot 105 of Falling Water Subdivision to 2 Lot 105A and 105B. Any further discussion? If not, all 3 in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item 8 is Item No. 7, consider the final replat of Lots 144, 145, 9 146, and 147 of the Falling Water Subdivision to Lots 10 144A, 145A, 146A, 147A, and 147B. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, this is one -- 13 there was a variance. I understand they're not going to 14 request it. It was regarding the frontage on the 15 cul-de-sac. I think they worked that problem out. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Frontage has increased to 17 the proper size; no longer needs a variance. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There was -- it's on 19 Lot 146A. They didn't have enough frontage, and they've 20 pulled -- 21 MR. VOELKEL: We've widened that out to 22 100. We can do this one like the other one you just 23 approved, but we'll have to go -- since we've got this 24 change, get the signatures before we bring it back to 25 Franklin and request the Judge to sign. I make a motion 47 1 to approve, authorize the Judge to sign same, based on the 2 revised plat presented today. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 5 seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve the 6 final replat of Lots 144, 145, 146, and 147 of Falling 7 Water Subdivision to Lots 144A, 145A, 146A, 147A, and 8 147B, subject to review of new plat reflecting the 9 amendments presented today, and authorizing the Judge to 10 sign once it's been signed by everyone else. Any further 11 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 12 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 16 MR. CRENWELGE: Thank you very much for 17 your time. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, gentlemen. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment. I'm 20 sure you'll be glad to hear, this should be close to the 21 end of revising Falling Water Subdivision. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a promise? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe a couple more. 24 MR. CRENWELGE: One more time. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The next three items relate 48 1 to bid openings that are posted for 10 o'clock, so let's 2 skip over to Item No. 11, which is a request from the 3 Animal Control Supervisor for reduction of the County 4 registration fee during Rabies Drive, which is February 5 12th to February 26, 2000. It's my understanding that 6 this is done in conjunction with all the other vets -- all 7 the vets in the county will be reducing their fees; is 8 that correct, Marc? 9 MR. ALLEN: That's correct. Yeah, we're 10 going to try to push our Rabies Drive a little harder this 11 year. All the vets are willing to work with us, and we're 12 just about ready to go. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Have we had any more 14 problems with rabid animals? 15 THE WITNESS: Just in the foxes and the 16 bats. And that was last year. We haven't had a confirmed 17 case this year yet, so -- and no domestic animal, which is 18 really good. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move we reduce 20 the rabies vaccination fee, as outlined in the memo from 21 the Rabies Control Authority. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been moved by 24 Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, 25 that the Court reduce the rabies vaccination fee to $1 49 1 during Rabies Vaccination Drive, which is February 12th to 2 February 26th. Any further discussion? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good idea. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your 5 right hands. 6 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 10 Marc. 11 MR. ALLEN: Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't see Mr. Hall here. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His truck's out there. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He was here this 15 morning. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: His truck is gone 18 now. Looks like a simple deal, though. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go ahead and take up 20 Item No. 12, which is consider and discuss change in the 21 line item for the D.P.S. budget. The memo which was 22 presented by Mr. Hall of License and Weight Service 23 requests that the Court revise the Capital Outlay item 24 from a radar unit to other Capital Outlay items, as 25 reflected in the memo. I believe the understanding is 50 1 that there's -- a radar unit is not necessary this time 2 around. Does anyone have any questions or comments? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a bookkeeping 4 question, I think. Would we trans -- I think his request 5 is that we transfer the money from Capital Outlay over to 6 another line that he would have the freedom, then, to 7 purchase these items? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: The way I understand it is 9 the Capital Outlay item he requested was specifically a 10 radar unit. What he wants us to do is to substitute this 11 list for radar unit, which would then give him the 12 authority to purchase these items out of his Capital 13 Outlay. It's not a transfer of money; it's an amendment 14 to the description of the Capital Outlays for that 15 particular department. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The money still 17 stays in Capital Outlay. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem 20 with that, but I think there may be some budget amendments 21 required when and if he -- if he buys computer software, 22 that's not a Capital Outlay item, so when that purchase 23 comes through, it ought to be reflected to the right -- 24 proper account. The rest of it, the extension cord and 25 lights, I mean, I doubt that's a Capital Outlay item, 51 1 either, so, I mean, I think -- I don't have any problem 2 putting money there right now, with the understanding that 3 it needs to be transferred to the appropriate line item 4 when the purchase is made, if they're made. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that a motion? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 10 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve the 11 revision of the Capital Outlay items approved under Budget 12 Item 10-581-570 to those outlined in Mr. Hall's amendment 13 request, with the understanding that there will have to be 14 some additional transfers of funds in order to put the 15 items in the proper categories in the budget. Any further 16 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 17 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Trying to wrap up to 10 21 o'clock here. Let's go back and do Item No. 12 -- we just 22 did Item No. 12. Item No. 13, consider and discuss a 23 proclamation for Power Week -- Power Team Week in Kerr 24 County from February 6th to 12th. Commissioner Baldwin. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you 52 1 very much. Last week I was approached by a group of folks 2 here in Kerrville. They are backed by 20 different 3 churches -- thank you so much, Thea. Twenty churches that 4 are bringing this group to the Kerr County area, that's 5 better known as the Power Team. They come here almost 6 every year, and they go to -- into the school districts, 7 into the schools themselves, and perform. They go to our 8 Juvenile Detention Center. I understand our Sheriff's 9 Department D.A.R.E. program is supporting this and a part 10 of it. And, what these guys do is they come in and talk 11 about pro-nation, pro-family, anti-drug and those kind of 12 things, and perform. And we've -- I have seen them on TV; 13 I don't know if you guys watch the sports, too, or not, 14 but we see them occasionally on television, and they -- 15 they break bricks and they bend iron and do all kind of 16 things, and then, you know, they do it in a positive vein, 17 and motivational-type thing. 18 And, Judge, your -- your name goes on the 19 proclamation, so I had -- I had one of the gentlemen that 20 approached me about doing a proclamation, I asked them to 21 write one up. And, personally, it's a little bit too much 22 verbal clutter for my taste, but I'll fire a shot at this 23 one, or we can rewrite it or whatever you want to do. 24 But, my request is that -- is that we pass a Court Order 25 and proclaim in Kerr County the week of February 7th 53 1 through 13th as Power Team Week to Take Back Our Schools. 2 Now, y'all have this? And I apologize, it didn't get out 3 to you in your packets, but I didn't get it either, so -- 4 it just seems like a little bit too much verbiage here to 5 me, but -- 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. You want 8 to fire a shot at that? Judge, would you mind if I read 9 it and -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go right ahead, 11 Commissioner. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're not real 13 excited about it. I want to hear some enthusiasm. That's 14 what this is all about. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's have a dramatic 16 reading of the Proclamation from Commissioner Baldwin. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to read 18 it as printed, or as you plan to revise it? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think he's -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to edit 21 it. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As edited. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Edited version. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whereas, the youth 25 of our nation, state, and county face unprecedented 54 1 challenges and opportunity to serve our community; and, 2 whereas, our youth are exposed to a vast variety of 3 lifestyles, morals, ethics, and philosophical thoughts; 4 and, whereas, our youth are the citizens of tomorrow and 5 our future leaders of our county, state, and nation; and, 6 whereas, the John Jacobs Power Team will be motivating, 7 inspiring, and challenging the youth of Kerr County to 8 take your school back; and, whereas, the Power Team is a 9 positive role model and challenges our youth to preserve, 10 protect, and defend our nation's heritage, our Texas 11 honor, and our local homes and families; therefore, be it 12 known Kerr County proclaims the week of February 7 through 13 13, 2000 to be Power Team Week to Take Back Our Schools, 14 the Honorable Fred Henneke, Kerr County Judge. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a motion. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 20 the Proclamation as read by Commissioner Baldwin, very 21 well, to declare the week of February 7th through 22 February 13th, Year 2000, to be Power Team Week to Take 23 Back Our Schools. Any further discussion? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hats off to the 25 editors. 55 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: If not, all in favor, raise 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. As soon as 7 we get the revised Proclamation, we will so proclaim. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Moving right along, 9 Judge. Keep it going. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll, we're rolling. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twenty-something items, 12 I thought we'd be here till 2 o'clock. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Fixing to slow down, I 14 think. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take a deep breath; 16 it will be 10 o'clock. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's do an easy one. I 18 want to get right on 10 o'clock before we open those bids. 19 Let's do Item 20, if we may, which is consider and discuss 20 construction of a sidewalk at the City's expense on Kerr 21 County's property on Schreiner Street, where the Community 22 Recycling Center is located. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the interest of 24 enhancing the fellowship between Pinkie Brown and the 25 City, I so move. 56 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 3 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner -- moved by Commissioner 4 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the 5 Commissioners Court grant approval to City of Kerrville to 6 construct a sidewalk at the City of Kerrville's sole 7 expense on the County's property on Schreiner Street where 8 the County Recycling Center is located. Any further 9 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 10 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. All right, 14 let's now go back to Item No. 8, which is opening of 15 sealed bids on tractor for the Hill Country Youth 16 Exhibition Center, and consider and discuss approving or 17 rejecting same. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner 19 Griffin, are you reaping any heat off of that fire? I'm 20 about to freeze to death. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: First bid on the tractor 23 for the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center is from 24 Fredericksburg Equipment, and it is in the amount of -- 25 the tractor is $16,558.09, and the loader is $3,060.08. 57 1 Next bid is from Secor Equipment Company here in 2 Kerrville. The bid from Secor Equipment Company is in the 3 amount of $18,326.25. Front end loader is $2,962.50. 4 However, it says the loader and tractor must be listed on 5 the same invoice to receive this special pricing on the 6 loader. So, I believe that's a -- if you're going to buy 7 the loader, you've got to buy the tractor, too, at that 8 price. 9 Next bid is from Tractor City in Seguin, Texas. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are those the folks 11 that are moving into Kerrville up there close to Walmart? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's Tractor Supply 13 Company. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: The tractor is $17,650, and 15 the loader is $3,450. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like an easy 17 decision to me. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have a motion to 19 approve -- to accept the bids and refer them to the 20 Maintenance Supervisor for recommendation? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 24 seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we accept all the 25 bids for the tractor for the Hill Country Youth Exhibition 58 1 Center, refer them to the Maintenance Supervisor for 2 evaluation, and return for recommendation. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Do you want them this 4 morning? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: When do you want to buy 6 your tractor? 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir, I'd rather do it 8 this morning. Thank you. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item No. 9, 10 which is open bids for six 1999 4-door police vehicles. 11 First bid that we're opening is from Stoepel Ford here in 12 Kerrville, and the price is two thousand -- no, I'm sorry, 13 $21,027 delivered. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per unit? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Per unit, yes. $21,027. 16 Second bid is from Gullo Ford, G-u-l-l-o, out of Conroe, 17 Texas. This bid is for $21,075 per unit. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Delivered? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. It also actually has 20 a financing component, which is to finance all of them, it 21 appears, for 36 months; monthly payments would be 22 $3,841.19. This will have to be looked at in conjunction 23 with the finance -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it state the 25 rate of interest? 59 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, it doesn't. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was your 3 question? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does 5 it state the rate of interest. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next bid is from Jennings 7 Anderson Ford. Bid is for $20,983 each. Final bid is 8 from Philpott Motor Company in either Nederland, Texas, or 9 Port Neches, Texas. And, this is for $20,864 per unit. 10 It also says lease-purchase cost would be $3,789.44 per 11 month for 36 months through a Ford municipal lease at 6 12 percent interest. So, that's -- that's actually a bid on 13 both items. Those are the bids. Do I have a motion to 14 accept all bids and refer them to the Sheriff's Department 15 for analysis and recommendation? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we accept all 20 the bids for the Sheriff's vehicles and refer them to the 21 Sheriff's Department for analysis and recommendation. 22 DEPUTY ALFORD: When do y'all want this 23 back? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whenever you're ready. If 25 it's not today -- 60 1 DEPUTY ALFORD: It will be today, if y'all 2 have time for it. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Oh, we'll have time. We'll 4 probably be -- 5 DEPUTY ALFORD: I'll take them to the 6 office, get the paperwork so we can match everything up. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We've got another one here 8 to do on financing. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as you can. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have -- let's call the 11 proper agenda item. This is Agenda Item No. 10, which is 12 open lease-purchase proposals for financing of police 13 vehicles, and award or reject same. I would believe that 14 at least two of those vehicles contain financing 15 proposals. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. One stated 17 the interest rate; one did not. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. The first bid on 19 financing is from Union State Bank here in Kerrville. 20 It's from Mike Allen. Six vehicles would be required as 21 collateral on one note, in the amount of approximately 22 $130,000, or 12 equal quarterly payments of -- if 23 tax-exempt, the rate would be 6.75 percent. The taxable 24 rate would be 8.75 percent. 25 The second bid on financing is from Philpott. 61 1 It may be just a repeat of what we had before. They have 2 a total amount -- the number of payments, 36 payments -- 3 monthly payments of $3,776.55. The dealer rate is 5.75 4 percent. They have annual payments. Annual, in advance, 5 the rate will be 5.8 percent, and the amount of the annual 6 payment would be $44,101.45. So, those are the bids on 7 the financing option. Do I have a motion to refer these 8 to the Sheriff's Department for analysis and 9 recommendation? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 13 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we accept all the 14 bids on financing of police vehicles and refer them to the 15 Sheriff's Department for review and recommendation. 16 DEPUTY ALFORD: Thank you, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, aren't there -- 18 we didn't vote yet. Are we voting? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any further 20 discussion? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Isn't there 22 some legal requirement that when we desired to go out for 23 bids on that, that we had to follow certain -- we couldn't 24 just do business with anybody? Or could we? On leasing. 25 There -- seems like there was some discussion we had 62 1 regarding leasing, that it had to meet some legal 2 requirements. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We had a 4 discussion, Commissioner, about we couldn't just limit the 5 financing to local banks; we had to go broader than that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which we did, because we 8 got at least two financing options from outside of the 9 community. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your 12 right hand. 13 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 17 DEPUTY ALFORD: Commissioner Williams, will 18 you be available to help look at the financing part of it 19 as to what the Court might -- we don't know what y'all's 20 guidelines are, if you want one year or -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you get 22 with the Auditor, let him put the calculator to it? 23 MR. ALLEN: Okay. Tommy, will you be 24 available in about 15 or 20 minutes? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 63 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Commissioner 3 Letz, let's do Item No. 14, consider and discuss 4 procedures and a timetable for adopting new Kerr County 5 Subdivision Rules and Regulations. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, unfortunately, I 7 don't have a copy for everyone right now, but we will 8 shortly. We have a -- I guess a first attempt at this for 9 everyone to look at, and I don't want to go through it 10 today. Really, the -- I guess my intent was to hand them 11 out, let everyone -- let each Commissioner look at them, 12 and then, at our next meeting, come back and come up with 13 a draft that the Commissioners Court's happy with, and 14 then that -- then put it out for 30-day public inspection. 15 There's a couple of provisions that -- water 16 availability is one. I tried to be imaginative in that 17 area. And, rather than try to explain it, I left the -- 18 wrote it up last -- or over the weekend, left on it my 19 desk at my house, so I don't have a copy for you. And, 20 the other revision that we really need to look at is 21 revision of plat, which we went through today again. I 22 would like to request another opinion, or opinion from our 23 County Attorney regarding that same language and 24 applicability to this county, and then look at that a 25 little bit more. I think we need to -- that has been the 64 1 area that we have the most problem with, in my mind, of 2 continually having confusion over revision of plat. We 3 need to try to get that all under one heading, which we've 4 done, and then I want to get an opinion from the County 5 Attorney, hopefully by that next meeting, on that. 6 I think most of the other provisions have been 7 incorporated from legislative language and changes that 8 we've -- typos that were in it and some other kinks. I 9 thought what I'd do is Truby -- have Truby print off 10 sufficient drafts and put it in everyone's box tomorrow or 11 this afternoon, along with the -- and we'll also have the 12 section at that time on water availability; have it -- put 13 it back on the agenda in two weeks. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: You contemplate having a 15 public hearing, workshop -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- prior to adoption? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think -- yes, I 19 think that we should do a -- put it out for a public 20 inspection after the Commissioners are happy with it, just 21 for 30 days. And, at that one, at the culmination of that 22 30-day period, do a public hearing for adoption and 23 incorporate it, and -- you know, and if there's too many 24 comments and we need to make more revisions, we cannot 25 adopt it, have a public hearing and not adopt, and then 65 1 revisit it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you proposing a 3 workshop for us to do all the comments and -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could do it as a 5 workshop on the next Commissioners Court meeting and I, 6 you know, can certainly style it that way so we could have 7 the flexibility, if the Commissioners want to go in a 8 workshop on -- the 14th of February, I think, is our next 9 meeting. Is that it? The 14th, that afternoon, do a 10 workshop. Might be a good idea to go through -- and that 11 way I can go through and, you know, make sure that -- 12 because I think there will be some discussion on water 13 availability and on the revision of plat. I mean, that's 14 something that -- you know, I've made a stab at water 15 availability, just to have something to start from, but 16 it's a pretty -- lots of ramifications as to how we handle 17 that. And, I think a workshop is probably a good way to 18 iron that out so we can have a final draft at the end of 19 our next meeting. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Are you proposing, 21 then, that we have a workshop at, say, 2 o'clock? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two o'clock on the -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: 14th. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 14th of February. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: February 14th. Is that a 66 1 motion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 5 seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we schedule a 6 workshop at 2 o'clock p.m. on February the 14th, Year 7 2000, to discuss the revisions to the Kerr County 8 Subdivision Rules and Regulations. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One other comment I 10 will make. We have also discussed changing some of the 11 language, and during this time we're working at getting 12 that ironed out. I looked at the -- and we can discuss 13 this at the workshop in some more depth -- eliminating 14 some people that are signing off on the routing slip right 15 now, but I was -- I hit a brick wall at Road and Bridge. 16 I don't want to take anybody off; I think everyone is 17 required, I'll probably agree with them, 'cause they have 18 pretty good reasons. But, I know the Judge and I talked a 19 little bit about eliminating some of the people, trying to 20 make it a cleaner process, and we have some pretty good 21 reasons why we do have the people we do, but that can be 22 discussed at that meeting. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further discussion? If 24 not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 25 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 67 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This will be in 5 everyone's box tomorrow. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. I see Megan 7 Caffall is here. Let's go ahead and do Item No. 16. Then 8 we'll take a break and we'll come back, and immediately 9 after break we'll take up the burn ban. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, Item No. 16, consider 12 and discuss, number one, the current airport status, and 13 number two, annual agreement with TexDOT for grant monies 14 for Routine Airport Maintenance Program, and authorize 15 County Attorney and County Judge to sign same. 16 Commissioner Griffin. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. I'll 18 immediately turn this over to Megan so she can give us the 19 status update. There's a lot happening at the airport. I 20 think it's a lot of good things happening. And, of 21 course, the second item there is the -- is to get some 22 grant money, and we'll always process those as fast as we 23 can. So, Megan? 24 MS. CAFFALL: Thank you. Our master plan 25 is in its final review stage. The Airport Layout Plan has 68 1 been forwarded to both TexDOT Aviation Division and the 2 City staff for review. It is in the final review stages, 3 pretty much complete. There's still some small items that 4 we're going back and forth with the F.A.A. about. The 5 Airport Layout Plan will control what our project list and 6 grant funding will be for the next 10 years, so it's 7 pretty important that we get this as much as we can now. 8 There was an initial 1,100-foot displacement 9 shown on our Runway 12, which is the Mooney end of the 10 main runway. And, the -- the subject came up that that 11 would lower our main runway to less than 5,000 feet with 12 that initial 1,100-foot displacement, so we did ask for an 13 initial 700-foot displacement, although ultimately we 14 would be going to an 1,100-foot displacement with that 15 Runway 12, and that was granted by the F.A.A. They 16 thought that would be all right, but at the same time, 17 they took back our initial Waiver of Modifications where 18 they would let us have a precision approach on Runway 30, 19 the other end, with our airport entrance road. And, we 20 had -- and the State Highway being within the object-free 21 zone at that end. So, we gained on one end and lost on 22 the other. And, TexDOT Aviation Division is -- is anxious 23 to see if we can get the other end back. So, that's about 24 where we are with the master plan. When that comes back 25 from the F.A.A. with their final decision on that, we'll 69 1 get it back for review and then we'll all look at it again 2 and hopefully get that printed. 3 But, that's the status of our master plan. Any 4 questions on the master plan? Our AWOS is up and running. 5 It is commissioned by the F.A.A. It will be fully 6 commissioned when we send in our Memorandum of Agreement 7 with the F.A.A. for maintenance and operation of it. 8 Today marks 30 days it's been up and running without going 9 down, without any problem. That, to me, was a reasonable 10 period of time for it to be trouble-free. It had been up 11 and down and up and down. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Megan, if I might 13 interrupt you for a minute, AWOS is the Automated Weather 14 Observation System. And, you can either get -- that 15 information is constantly being monitored. It plays over 16 and over, and you either get it on the radio, if you're in 17 an aircraft, or you can call from your phone and dial 18 right into the same thing, find out what the ceiling and 19 visibility and temperature and all that stuff is. So, 20 it's -- and, by the way, I picked it up 60 miles out last 21 Thursday, so they -- whatever they did to the antenna -- 22 MS. CAFFALL: They moved the antenna. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 24 MS. CAFFALL: But, at 30 days, I feel 25 comfortable with sending in our Memorandum of Agreement. 70 1 There's a quarter-page document that goes with the airport 2 owning and operating -- although the maintenance and the 3 actual responsibility for the operation of the weather 4 system has been contracted out to a firm for five years. 5 That was a part of the original grant, so we won't have 6 that expense for five years, but we still have the 7 responsibility, and it's -- it's pretty significant. It's 8 one of those things that, if nothing goes wrong, you never 9 hear anything about it, but if we have any aircraft 10 incidents or anything that involves our weather reporting, 11 that the F.A.A. deems that we do certain things in pretty 12 immediate status. So, I'm at the point that now I'm going 13 to send this agreement in, and that will mean it will be 14 fully commissioned here shortly. But, flight service is 15 giving out the information through San Angelo, and once 16 it's fully commissioned, then the L.C.R.A. has indicated 17 an interest in putting a realtime modem on it and 18 transmitting our data here from Kerrville to the National 19 Weather Service. And, that would be at their expense, if 20 we let them use our equipment. The Airport Board has 21 recommended doing this, and when that issue comes up -- I 22 don't think they have it in this year's funding, but when 23 that comes up again, of course, I will come back and 24 consult with Commissioners Court before we do anything 25 with that. But, that's a -- that's an excellent 71 1 opportunity for Kerrville to be on the National Weather 2 Service and to make our -- our weather investment 3 available to other people. And L.C.R.A. was willing to 4 pay the cost of that, so that's a good deal. 5 We do have an acoustic counter at the airport. 6 We're one of two airports in this region that are having 7 our activity counted. That's an indication that Aviation 8 Division is looking very seriously at some of the 9 requirements that we've asked for, these precision 10 approaches and improvements that will be coming in the 11 next 10 years. We've questioned their activity counts, 12 how many take-offs and landings we have at the airport. 13 They've always seemed kind of low. And, so, we have a 14 counter for the next two weeks on the main runway. We 15 went out and set it up. You're supposed to pick one end 16 or the other to set it up, and with the wind changing this 17 time of year, it's kind of a toss-up which end to put it 18 at. But, we set it up on the Runway 12 end, because 19 that's the way the prevailing winds work this time of 20 year. And, while we were watching it, it was picking up 21 traffic coming and going from both ends, so I'm optimistic 22 that our counts there will help us in acquiring funds for 23 the projects that we need. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we could just drive 25 back and forth across the meter and -- 72 1 THE WITNESS: I wish you could. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Lots of full stops 3 and taxi-backs, do 50 of them. 4 MS. CAFFALL: It has Doppler effect on it 5 so you can't cheat, but we do have several training 6 schools out of San Antonio that use our airport frequently 7 for -- for touch-and-go landings. Those all count. You 8 know, they just touch down, take off, touch -- they'll sit 9 there for an hour doing the same thing. Oh, those all 10 count. And, of course, we have relayed that information 11 to those people, that it would be nice the more activity 12 we have. So, numbers always help. 13 Moving on to the Ramp Program, this is basically 14 the same agreement we signed last year with TexDOT 15 Aviation Division in Austin. They proposed to pay half of 16 our maintenance costs, up to $40,000. They contribute 17 $20,000 towards any project that we pick. The Aviation 18 Division is very supportive of our proposed T-hangar 19 project in this year's scope of services. They have 20 listed associated paving for the T-hangars. If, for some 21 reason, we don't do the T-hangars or they aren't 22 accomplished within the time period that we need them to 23 be for this ramp agreement, the scope of project can be 24 changed very simply with a letter. Of course, before we 25 change from this to any other -- it would be a paving 73 1 project. We have some other road development that we're 2 doing in conjunction with both the T-hangars and our lease 3 site at the north end of that runway that is going to be 4 constructed here probably within the next two to three 5 months. It would be very easy just to switch over to pave 6 something else. But, Aviation Division in Austin needs 7 their agreement back by the 27th of this month, so we're 8 just going to go ahead and put it through with the paving 9 for the T-hangars. And, if y'all approve executing the 10 document, then if something should change, we can change 11 the scope of the project with a letter. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. Do we have 13 that -- do you have that document ready? 14 MS. CAFFALL: I should have that with me. 15 I can go -- I forgot to bring it with me. Yes, it's all 16 filled out. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I make a motion that 18 we approve proceeding with that document and authorizing 19 the -- I think the County Attorney has to sign it? 20 MS. CAFFALL: Yes, sir, both the Judge and 21 the County Attorney. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: County Attorney and 23 the County Judge to sign same. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 74 1 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the 2 Commissioners Court approve grant application to TexDOT 3 for the Routine Airport Maintenance Program and authorize 4 County Judge and County Attorney to sign same. Any 5 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 6 right hand. 7 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Megan, 11 what's the status of that individual's T-hangar contract? 12 MS. CAFFALL: As I understand it, the lease 13 has been signed by everyone but the County Attorney. And 14 I've been sending Kevin regular memos, because he -- he 15 had responded to Kevin, so -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: My understanding is that 17 it's buried on Kevin's desk, and has been for some time. 18 MS. CAFFALL: He doesn't physically have 19 it. There -- it was signed by the mayor, Kevin, and -- 20 and I didn't understand whether you had signed it or not, 21 but the originals are not at City Hall. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Maybe it's just a response 23 to our County Attorney's -- 24 MS. CAFFALL: I've been -- 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- changes. 75 1 MS. CAFFALL: -- trying to -- I've been 2 sending Kevin memos asking him to please get this 3 resolved. We have had preliminary meetings on the -- with 4 the individual on his site, and we need to kind of get it 5 back together. So, I'm doing everything I can, short of 6 being obnoxious. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's time, perhaps, 8 you stop -- stop stopping short. 9 MS. CAFFALL: I'm fully capable of stepping 10 over the line. 11 (Laughter.) 12 MS. CAFFALL: I'll go back and do it again 13 today. I think it needs to be -- it's minor language. 14 It's 180 days as opposed to six months. You know, use the 15 same term in both places. It's not a major hurdle, so I'm 16 hoping they can resolve that or pass it on to the next 17 one. I think that if y'all have any time to discuss the 18 T-hangars at all, I would really like to do that. It's 19 not on the agenda, so I don't know if you can or not. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it's under 21 status. I think, just briefly, you might bring the Court 22 up-to-date on it. 23 MS. CAFFALL: What seems to work best with 24 most things that we've done is the joint resolution 25 approach, where we can kind of cut out some of this 76 1 paperwork. The T-hangar project has a lot of support from 2 both from our aviation community here -- I have letters 3 from individuals requesting lease -- or offering to lease 4 these hangars before construction for 15, 16 hangars. One 5 of the local banks in town called me and said, "We sure 6 would like to finance this deal." And, of course, the 7 State level has indicated their support with our Ramp 8 Program. 9 I do have a -- a worksheet. I hate it when 10 people mention numbers to me and facts and figures, and 11 you don't have anything to look at and you're trying to 12 remember your question at the same time. I visited with a 13 local bank and they were willing to consult their bond 14 attorney about how they would finance such an opportunity, 15 where the ownership is joint between City and County, 16 which is a little bit difficult. Short of spending a lot 17 of their money on it with their attorney, they said a 7 18 percent rate would be a conservative estimate of what 19 their -- of what the interest rate for debt service would 20 be. The cost estimate of the project is $300,000. The 21 insurance cost for the project would be $160 -- $162 per 22 unit per year, and this would be through the City's Texas 23 Municipal Insurance that we insure everything at the 24 airport with. Any deductible for damage at the T-hangars 25 would be covered under our insurance reserve fund. The 77 1 airport fund already pays into that -- that line item in 2 the airport fund. If we had a claim one year, obviously, 3 our contribution would probably go up some the next year. 4 But, we carry a pretty healthy reserve fund there for 5 deductibles. 6 I did a worksheet -- these are all the figures 7 that I used in the cost analysis of whether we could 8 financially do this. An average utility cost of $37.35 9 per month for electric and water. Each individual unit 10 would not have water, but there would be probably two 11 hosts bibs available for just general use, but not -- you 12 wouldn't see people washing their planes there. That 13 would be something that would not be encouraged. And, if 14 it -- if it started to happen, we'd probably do something 15 so that people couldn't. Maintenance costs of $800 a 16 year, based on replacement or repair of rolling doors and 17 tracks. Maintenance cost was hard to come up with. I 18 visited with a lot of people who had T-hangars and owned 19 and operated them, and the general reply was that you 20 don't really have any maintenance costs. But, rolling 21 doors are something that I kept bringing up, and they 22 said, well, I guess if you had to replace rollers or 23 tracks. Any other damage to the hangars, whether it was 24 done by the individual or an act of God, would be covered 25 by insurance. 78 1 I did visit with a metal building manufacturer's 2 association and associated builders and contractors that 3 build T-hangars and came up with this $800 a year. That's 4 just kind of an estimate. But, under those terms, if the 5 hangars were 100 percent occupied and rented at $250 a 6 month, they would generate a net revenue, after expenses, 7 each year of $2,360. This is slightly more than we would 8 have gotten from leasing the land to the individuals who 9 wanted to build these T-hangars. Now, at the end of -- we 10 had offered them a 25-year lease, and at the end of that 11 25 years, of course, the building would be ours. If we 12 structure the loan over -- excuse me -- over 15 years at 13 the most, after 15 years we own the hangar. So, the 14 potential for full revenue comes a lot earlier if we build 15 them, and we don't have the handicap of losing our 16 investment after the end of the term. At $250 a month at 17 75 percent occupancy over a term of 10 years, you would 18 have a deficit -- or the fund would be missing $9,640. If 19 you structured the loan over 15 years at the same terms, 20 and it was 100 percent occupied, you would have a net 21 revenue of over $11,000. And, if there was 75 percent 22 occupied, you'd have a deficit of about $200. 23 The bank I visited with said that the loan could 24 be structured over 15 years and paid off in 10. In other 25 words, we could have the insurance of providing for only 79 1 75 percent occupancy, but structure our payments at the 2 10-year payoff, so they would actually be paid off in 10. 3 I tend to favor a conservative approach. I mean, the 4 general industry right now is just -- there's no hangar 5 space anyplace. In our last master plan in 1987, they 6 predicted that we needed twice as much hangar space by 7 1995 as we had in 1987. We have not built any hangars, 8 basically, at the airport since 1985. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Megan, what's the -- I 10 guess, the closest T-hangars around? Where do they go for 11 them? 12 MS. CAFFALL: They go between $200 and $235 13 a month in Fredericksburg. That's for an erected 14 top-quality hangar, same quality as these, and they have a 15 waiting list. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Megan, does $250 17 per month projected rent include the $37.35 in utilities, 18 or is that -- are you going to add that, or is that 19 something -- 20 THE WITNESS: No, the $250 a month would 21 include all the expenses. It would just be a straight 22 payment, and then I included all the above expenses in -- 23 in costs of operating to arrive at the net revenue or 24 loss. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Including a net -- 80 1 netting out the insurance, as well? 2 MS. CAFFALL: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we had the 4 hangars available, we'd probably get some of the waiting 5 list from Fredericksburg, if we had any space -- if we had 6 any space at all. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It strikes me that $250 may 8 be a little bit low on the market, by the access you have, 9 but I certainly wouldn't give more than a one- or two-year 10 lease without some escalators in there. 11 MS. CAFFALL: Well, and all these numbers 12 are just based on straight-line projection. You know, we 13 would have some sort of increase. You can rent hangars 14 for -- $250 is high for airports our size and location, 15 but we have a wonderful airport facility. I don't think 16 it's too high for here. If you get higher than this, some 17 of the airports that were included in that survey are very 18 close to areas like Dallas, Houston, Fort Worth, where you 19 have a real high density and a lot more people with 20 airplanes. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: When you got the letters 22 from the 15 out of the 16, was that based on $250 a month, 23 or did they simply say, "We want space"? 24 MS. CAFFALL: No, it was accepting a range 25 from $200 to $250, was the top end. Anyone I've talked to 81 1 recently said it's definitely going to be $250. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are those 3 expressions of interest from local aviators, or from some 4 people out of town, as well? 5 MS. CAFFALL: It's a real mixed bag. 6 There's probably three individuals that are out of town. 7 One wants to move to Kerrville. He's going to move 8 wherever he can find a place for his airplane. And then 9 we have two individuals from Fredericksburg that want to 10 be here. The rest are people that just -- they want their 11 own T-hangar. People who have small airplanes like the 12 idea of having it in a closet by itself, not subject to 13 hangar rash or -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hangar rash is when 15 other people touch your airplane, create dings in it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought it was a 17 virus. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Some airplanes, it 19 is, but -- and, by the way, this interest that has been 20 shown, I think it's important that Megan has pointed out 21 previously to us that -- to Commissioner Williams and 22 myself, that that's done with no advertising. That's all 23 been word-of-mouth amongst the aviation community. That 24 has not been promoted in any way, shape, or form. So, 25 if -- I guarantee you -- I mean, I have no doubt that if 82 1 we had 16 T-hangars available tomorrow, they'd be full and 2 we'd have a waiting list. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's also the 4 factor -- I don't know if Megan can tell us about it, 5 though, but the more aircraft we have in here, the more 6 fuel we pump and the more flow charges we get and so forth 7 and so on. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Money back to the 9 airport from the flow charge. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any estimate of how 11 that would benefit us, or you can't really tell? 12 MS. CAFFALL: Well, we have, I think, four 13 individuals on this list definitely that are in hangar 14 space now at Kerrville Aviation. And, if -- if you can 15 replace them with the same size, I mean, of course, you're 16 going to sell more fuel, but it would be really nice if -- 17 if they were replaced with something like a King Air -- 18 you know, a large twin or a jet, which has more activity 19 and sells more fuel. But, it definitely increases our 20 based aircraft, which also increases our -- our funding 21 portion of the State pot for all the improvements the 22 airport needs. 23 A question did come up when I was visiting with 24 the bond attorney; said, "Well, what is the operating 25 agreement with the airport?" And I said, "Well, I really 83 1 haven't had the time to research that, because it's not -- 2 it's not clearly evidenced." So, I spent three days in 3 our city vault; Maggie helped me with looking after 4 specific dates, and I was able to give her some time 5 periods where there might have been some activity. As 6 close as I can tell, there never has been a formal 7 agreement with the County for management or operation. 8 The City bought new airport land with bond money back in 9 1941, and immediately turned around and applied for 10 federal assistance to develop it. And, it just appears to 11 me throughout the life of the airport, the City and County 12 have shared the expenses. Even before the County was 13 deeded half the land, they were paying for half of the 14 expenses of the airport. And, it was in the County at the 15 time; it wasn't annexed to the City until 1978. 16 In 1982, the Airport Fund was formed, and 17 that -- the airport, throughout its life, has gone from 18 the City and County trying to develop things to getting 19 money from the F.A.A., then turning around and meeting the 20 requirements of the federal government, requirements for 21 the grants we've been given, and it's kind of been the 22 cart before the horse most of the time. We formed a 23 zoning board because we had to for some grant assurances 24 before the Airport Board was formed, and then the Airport 25 Board was formed in the '70's and evolved into a joint 84 1 board in '78. Because the Airport Fund is in the City 2 budget, it was the gentleman I spoke to's opinion that the 3 easiest way to finance these hangars would be through a 4 Certificate of Obligation to the City, with an interlocal 5 agreement between the City and County concerning the 6 liability for the loan that -- guaranteeing that the 7 monies generated from the T-hangar rentals would go 8 towards satisfying the note, and that if there were any 9 deficits, that the City and County would share that 10 deficit. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Megan, has the City 12 looked at doing this out of budget, as opposed to 13 borrowing the money? 14 MS. CAFFALL: Well, the Airport Fund is our 15 budget. The City and County contribute to the deficit 16 each year, anywhere from $20,000 to $30,000. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, I mean, it 18 doesn't seem that it's enough money -- when you split it 19 in half, $150,000 for both entities, with the size of both 20 of our budgets, it's something that can almost be budgeted 21 for in next year's budget and do it and not -- you know, 22 or maybe start it now and have it come out of next year's 23 budget when we have funds, rather than go through all 24 these finance hoops, which I think is not a good way to -- 25 for governments to do business. I'd rather, you know, try 85 1 to, you know, pay as you go, rather than have these things 2 keep on building future debt, which is what we're doing 3 with this. And, I'd be in favor -- I mean, who knows what 4 next year's budget's going to look like, but, you know, 5 I'm not real fond of, you know, financing government 6 endeavors like this, especially if the amount's not that 7 high. If you're talking about a, you know, $56 million 8 project, sure, you need bonds for that. But for this, I 9 think we do have a budget. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's 11 something we could look at. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I tend to agree. I mean, I 13 think that -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You could even do 15 it over a two- or three-year period of time. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like we did this 17 building here. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That was a tax anticipation 19 note. 20 MS. CAFFALL: But bank money towards 21 building them with each year's -- through the fund 22 balance? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're not saying 24 specifically how to do it, but we're saying, rather than 25 starting with the supposition we're going to finance it, 86 1 let's at least sit down and look at the possibility of 2 finding the funds within our respective budgets to simply 3 do it. 4 MS. CAFFALL: Okay. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Save the financing cost. 6 Instead of waiting 10 to 15 years to own the facilities, 7 you know, let's build them, perhaps get them in place, and 8 that money, then, that -- the revenue generated would 9 offset what the County and City would typically put into 10 the airport's budget. So, we'd, in essence, be paying 11 ourselves back by not having that annual contribution to 12 the budget. All we're saying is before you go too far 13 down the road of financing, get the players together and 14 discuss whether or not we can simply do it. 15 MS. CAFFALL: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I kind of like that 17 thought, because that, too -- then the rental becomes an 18 opportunity for the Airport Fund -- Operating Fund to gain 19 some money, you know, that they don't normally gain. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, instead of 21 operating at a deficit -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has some good 23 potential. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't like, 25 basically, encumbering future courts and the taxpayers for 87 1 things that really are not -- that don't necessarily -- I 2 mean, we ought to be able to pay for it as we go. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 4 MS. CAFFALL: If they were paid for as we 5 went, it would almost put the airport on a -- on a 6 paying-for-itself basis. I mean, you know. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's where that 8 comment keeps coming from. 9 MS. CAFFALL: That's why I'm pushing this 10 project. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How do you make 12 money if you don't have hangars? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of what 14 we're suggesting there, that that might be the catalyst 15 for getting to it even up on the revenue side. 16 MS. CAFFALL: My next step, then, would be 17 to go to the City Council, and would it be appropriate to 18 say that the County would like to look at having this on a 19 pay-as-you-go -- whether it's -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think before you actually 21 went formally to the council, you might want to, first of 22 all, run it by the Airport Board; and secondly, you might 23 want to get myself or Commissioner Griffin or Commissioner 24 Williams with you and, say, Glenn Brown, sit down and say, 25 "Okay, we're willing to talk about -- our side is willing 88 1 to talk about doing this. Is your side willing to talk 2 about doing this without financing it?" 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you've got 4 to take it that other step, too, Megan, and show how the 5 gross revenue from the rental of the hangars could benefit 6 the Airport Fund on an overall basis and be 7 self-sustaining and get it into the black. I think we 8 need to take those numbers and draw them out, as well. 9 MS. CAFFALL: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City Council might 11 look more favorably upon it that way. 12 MS. CAFFALL: That's excellent news to me, 13 because that's the whole point of this -- you know, at 14 some point we have to look at having the airport pay its 15 own way, and the quicker the better. So, that's -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we'd be 17 willing to sit down and work with them. 18 MS. CAFFALL: We do have an Airport Board 19 meeting -- I believe it's February 12th, so I'll run it 20 through the Airport Board, and then -- then observe all 21 the steps of the process. But, thank you. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 MS. CAFFALL: Well, thank you for your 24 consideration. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 89 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks, Megan. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're going to take a 3 10-minute recess now. Let's come back at 5 minutes to 4 11:00. If we have any bid reports, we'll take those up 5 first, and then we'll move into the burn ban. 6 (Recess taken from 10:45 to 10:55 a.m.) 7 - - - - - - - - - - 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 5 minutes to 11:00 on 9 Monday, January 24th, and we'll reconvene this Special 10 Session of Kerr County Commissioners Court. Before we 11 take up the next agenda item, which would be the burn ban, 12 do we have any report from individuals who were reviewing 13 bids we accepted? 14 DEPUTY ALFORD: Yes, sir, from the 15 Sheriff's Office. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes? 17 DEPUTY ALFORD: I laid a -- just a real 18 easy Xerox copy out in front of y'all. You'll see that 19 Philpott, by far, on the outright purchase, and also on 20 the leasing, was the low bidder. And that's the -- I 21 mean, as far as meeting with the Auditor and the gentleman 22 in charge of our fleet, we have nothing else but Philpott. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone have any questions? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I want 25 everybody to understand, what we're proposing is the 90 1 lease-purchase. After a three-year period of time, those 2 cars are ours. 3 DEPUTY ALFORD: That's right. And if 4 you'll notice, Philpott's the only one with Ford Motor 5 Credit. The rest of them did not -- the rest of them -- 6 some of them have Union State Bank financing. Philpott is 7 through Ford Motor, and in their outline it says at the 8 end of three years, that we pay $1 for the purchase of the 9 cars. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under all the lease 11 options, are the mileage limits the same? 12 DEPUTY ALFORD: Union State Bank had no 13 mileage. Ford Motor has no penalty. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ford Motor has 15 what? 16 DEPUTY ALFORD: No penalty on the mileage. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wouldn't think 18 so. 19 DEPUTY ALFORD: And Union State Bank, they 20 didn't even address that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move we accept 22 the bid as offered by Philpott Motor Company out of -- 23 wherever. 24 DEPUTY ALFORD: From Nederland/Port Neches. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nederland/Port 91 1 Neches for lease-purchase of six police vehicles for a 2 total lease-purchase price of $132,304,40. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 6 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 7 award the bids for the six Sheriff's Department patrol 8 cars to Philpott Ford Company out of Port Neches and 9 Nederland, Texas, for a total purchase cost on the 10 three-year lease-purchase program of $132,304.40. Any 11 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 12 right hand. 13 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 17 DEPUTY ALFORD: Thank you. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have any other bid 19 reports? Mr. Holekamp? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: On the tractor bids for the 21 Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center, my recommendation is 22 the low bidder, Fredericksburg Equipment of 23 Fredericksburg, price of $19,618.89, which included the 24 loader, not separate, which was approximately $1,600 -- 25 $1,500 on one bid and $1,600 on the other, better than the 92 1 other two vendors. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 5 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we award the bid 6 for the tractor at Hill Country Youth Exhibition to 7 Fredericksburg Equipment Company. Any further discussion? 8 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 9 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. All right. 13 We'll next return to Agenda Item No. 15, consider and 14 discuss extending the burn ban in Kerr County. 15 Commissioner Letz? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the packet I've 17 included the Prescribed Burn Management Plan from the 18 National Resource Conservation Service. It's a very 19 inclusive plan; it shows what a rancher or any person -- 20 primarily another rancher -- a plan they will put together 21 to get a prescribed burning plan approved by the N.R.C.S. 22 I would recommend that if a ranch has that plan on file 23 with N.R.C.S. and approved by N.R.C.S., that those people 24 be allowed to burn under the conditions of that plan. 25 And, there's now a requirement for dampness and weather 93 1 and a number of things that are checked on daily by people 2 doing the prescribed burns. 3 I think I had the -- in my recommendation that 4 we shall receive a full copy of the plan to the 5 Commissioners Court. Really, I think all we probably need 6 is the front page. You know, the rest of it is just a lot 7 of extra copying that I don't think we need, but I 8 probably would like to add on the front page, or just 9 have -- N.R.C.S. can add a location or address, so that we 10 have an idea as to where it -- you know, exactly where the 11 ranch is. Physical address, not a mailing address, I 12 mean, 'cause I think the ranch name, pasture acreage to be 13 burned, I think the landowner, and the -- and physical 14 location. We'd add -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about adding 16 also the volunteer fire department whose responsibility it 17 would be if they had to answer a call? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They are required to be 19 notified under the plan. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I saw that in 21 here. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Sheriff's 23 Department and all volunteer fire departments are notified 24 prior to burning under the plan. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I realize that. 94 1 I'm saying in terms of identification. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I -- the only 3 problem with that is it might give somebody the impression 4 that that's the only one that's going to respond, and 5 it's -- as a matter of fact, they all inter-work very 6 closely together and -- and everybody usually responds to 7 anybody's problem. So -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But you always have 9 a lead fire department. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jonathan, rather than 12 revise the form, what if we had them send us the first two 13 pages? The second page has a map, which I presume would 14 locate the property. And, also, the last page, which has 15 the signatures. I mean, I agree with you, there's no 16 reason for us to -- necessarily to have the entire 17 package, but I'd like to have something that shows where 18 they've signed off on it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good idea. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: And then we, in turn, 21 could -- we could either fax it out to the Sheriff's 22 Department or we could ask the -- probably a good idea for 23 us to send it to the Sheriff's Department. That way, the 24 Sheriff's Department has something on record which -- 25 which would show that these people have approved -- 95 1 approved the plan, 'cause they're the enforcing agency. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a suggestion; 3 that they send us one copy of the entire plan, and that we 4 would break it apart and send it out, just so we've got it 5 on file if anybody's interested. And, I'm brainstorming 6 this. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But if we had a copy 9 that we maintained on file, then we could take the 10 appropriate pages and send those to County agencies that 11 need to be notified, and that would include the Sheriff's 12 Department, perhaps volunteer fire departments, and so on. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with 14 getting the whole plan. I think, on the second part, the 15 map, if the map's reduced to a -- you know, an -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 8-by-10, include it. 18 But, if it's a big map, I don't think -- I mean, it's kind 19 of -- I think just the verbiage as to where it is would be 20 sufficient. I mean, I don't -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, I agree with that. 22 I'm not looking to have a plat reproduced, but rather 23 than -- my point was, rather than add an item at the 24 bottom of this page which says "address," we just use the 25 next page. 96 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which has a map. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: And -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then it also has -- on 6 the back, last page, you have the name of the people. I 7 don't think -- we don't -- they don't have anything on 8 there which is really an address, but they've got that in 9 the files. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: There's a -- is there a 11 timeframe within which we want to use this, or is this 12 open-ended or -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think my 14 recommendation would be to have it, certainly, through -- 15 I'd say open-ended, because the plans have a date 16 requirement in it, and they expire on their own. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: The reason I bring that 18 question up is because we have to operate under the 19 emergency authority to do it this way. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: As opposed to the Forest 22 Service. So, if we want to go back to the Forest Service, 23 you know, we need to -- we have to have a time, certainly, 24 when we can reconvert back from emergency authority to the 25 Forest Service. 97 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if we just 2 have -- the intent is to continue to review this every two 3 weeks, which is -- we have to do it every two weeks under 4 the old system. We can't extend it longer than two weeks. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, I think we can. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I think -- I 8 think that will work well. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: My suggestion would be that 10 we -- that we do this for 21 days, which will take us to 11 the next Court meeting. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And we always should 14 do it for a long enough period to get us to the next court 15 date. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, then, at that meeting, 17 perhaps we can have some feedback as to whether we want to 18 continue to allow people to be able to burn. If you give 19 them 21 days from our previous discussion, that's kind of 20 the prime burning season, anyway, through February 14th. 21 Maybe we'll go another two weeks and maybe -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- we'll drop it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should make 25 it clear that it likely would be expanded beyond, 'cause 98 1 we don't want people going, "Look, okay, they're going to 2 cut the burn ban off Monday," and everyone go out and burn 3 on days when it's not optimum, because there is a lot of 4 subjectivity in there. So, I think the intent is to let 5 them burn under these plans, unless something changes 6 drastically. And -- you know, and I think the other 7 thing -- and I don't think, from talking with Joe, they 8 ever have burning brush piles in their burn plan. I think 9 it needs to be real clear that brush piles are not 10 included in this. And, the reason for that is that brush 11 piles may burn four or five minutes, it appears, but they 12 simmer and the embers are there for two to three weeks. 13 And, if you get a gust of wind and it -- that's really 14 where a lot of the, you know, forest fires start, is from 15 brush piles, not the controlled burning across the 16 rangeland. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a 18 question. Are you convinced that this map on Page 2 is -- 19 is enough information? I mean, is that a physical 20 address? I don't see it that way, but -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: They might change that to 22 add a parenthetical that includes physical address. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or they can put their 24 physical address in the type on the bottom. I don't think 25 there's that many of these over there that it's that big 99 1 of a problem. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just so I 3 understand, with whom is this filed to begin with? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The U.S.D.A. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do we know 6 what's taking place? They're going to send us a copy, 7 send a copy to the Sheriffs Department? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're going to send us a 9 full copy. We are, in turn, going to transmit pertinent 10 pages to the Sheriff's Department. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the Sheriff's 13 Department knows that if they go out and they see a fire, 14 they can look in their records and say, Okay, this rancher 15 has permission to burn. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And who's going to 17 notify the volunteer fire department in whose back yard 18 this is taking place? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's in the plan. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a requirement of the 21 burn plan. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- I mean, 23 you know, I don't know if there's -- well, the penalty, I 24 think, probably comes -- the liability, if you follow it 25 under State law, if you follow a burn plan like this, your 100 1 liability is gone if the fire gets out of hand. If you 2 don't, you're -- you'd be liable for some of the damages. 3 I mean, so there's pretty big incentive. I don't know any 4 rancher that doesn't follow the plan, because, I mean, 5 ranchers don't want these things to get out of control. 6 They want people to be aware if it does -- a problem does 7 develop, for people to be aware exactly how you -- where 8 it is and how you get there. 9 So, if -- I mean, it's a standard checklist. 10 You call the Sheriff's Department, and depending on where 11 the ranches are, generally -- like, in our case, we can 12 call Kendall County, Bandera County, and Kerr County, just 13 depending on which way the smoke blows. And the other 14 ranches do the same thing, depending on the neighboring -- 15 where their ranch is. You know, I don't think anyone's 16 going to say that it's not possible for a fire to get out 17 of hand still, but I think the benefit of the risk is 18 better to, you know, do this, because it is something that 19 really helps the agriculture in the area. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 21 comments? 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Last time we also 23 discussed looking at some way of a moratorium on burn bans 24 so that -- if we get a significant rain. We talked about 25 perhaps doing that, even by precinct. Has anybody given 101 1 that any more -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought about it a 3 lot. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I -- and I was 6 initially in favor of it, but I'm against it now, mainly 7 because that will go to brush piles, and you really have 8 to look at each individual brush pile to make a decision 9 if there's -- like, if -- it may be a foggy day and it may 10 be a great day to burn brush piles, but if it's surrounded 11 by a bunch of dry grass, you know, there's a chance -- 12 it's just -- I think the risk is too high. And I would 13 probably be comfortable with checking it, or if I had 14 someone go out and check each one. But, based on, you 15 know, just -- you know, I'm against it right now. The 16 other reason I'm against it is I -- like I say, it's 17 primarily for brush piles. By April, even if we don't get 18 rain, it's going to green up around here in the spring, 19 you know. The -- the plants will come up, there will be 20 some vegetation, and I think it will be a time -- better 21 time to burn brush piles if we decide to do that in about 22 two months from now. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there's 24 another problem with that, too. We did discuss it, 25 Commissioner, but I think if an individual Commissioner 102 1 was given the responsibility of giving approval or 2 disapproval, or putting in effect a moratorium for brush 3 piles and it got out of control, I can see that 4 responsibility falling back on the Court, and I don't -- 5 I, for one, don't want that responsibility. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's also -- 9 the other reason is -- I mean, this type of burning can 10 only be done for about a two-month period of the year. 11 Brush piles can sit there for 10 years, you know. I mean, 12 it might be inconvenient, but there's other solutions. 13 They can be hauled off, buried, or they can be -- you 14 know, whatever. But, this can't be done -- you can either 15 do it for about a two-month period, or you just don't do 16 it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we approve 18 this -- and I have no problem with doing this. I 19 understand we're, in effect, allowing this to take place 20 under these circumstances for, you know, 21 days. And 21 then we take a look at the whole program again at the next 22 Commissioners Court, including prescribed burning, or -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. If we have -- 24 you know, if it's a real problem and -- if it's a real 25 problem, you know, I'd be in favor of -- if we get four 103 1 fires out of control 'cause people aren't following their 2 plans, I'd say call an emergency meeting and cancel all of 3 them again. You know, and I don't think that will happen, 4 but we certainly have the authority to cancel it if we had 5 to. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We don't approve 7 these, anyway. I mean, we don't -- we wouldn't cancel 8 them, because -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All we would do is we would 10 cancel the authorization -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To let them burn. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- to do the prescribed 13 burns. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I thought I 15 understood at the last meeting that they were doing this, 16 you know -- I mean, so that these plans were on file. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: They've been -- this is a 19 service that the U.S.D.A. has offered for years and years. 20 We're not putting them into the loop, from the Court's 21 point of view, as the experts on agricultural burns. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: In effect. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Somebody form a 25 motion out of that. 104 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: First you got to 4 extend the burn ban. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 6 extend the burn ban and have an exception in that burn ban 7 that if the landowner has a prescribed burning management 8 plan, form TX-ECS-1, on file and approved by the National 9 Resources Conservation Service and the U.S.D.A., then that 10 prescribed -- the prescribed burning under that plan is 11 allowed. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that ban goes 13 through our next -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next meeting. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Through close of 16 business on the next meeting on the 14th of February. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 20 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Kerr County 21 Commissioners Court impose a burn ban in Kerr County, 22 based upon the Texas Disaster Act of 1975, to continue 23 through close of business on Monday, February 14th, Year 24 2000; provided, however, that agricultural burning will be 25 permitted for those individuals or ranches that have a 105 1 Prescribed Burning Management Plan on file and approved by 2 the U. S. Department of Agriculture/Natural Resources 3 Conservation Service during this moratorium, and 4 specifically excluding the burning of brush piles. Is 5 that it? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further discussion? If 8 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 9 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment to the 14 press, just to make sure that what we're doing -- what 15 this is only if they have that on file. And if people 16 have a question, they need to call the U.S.D.A., not us. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Or their respective 18 Commissioner. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wishful thinking. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item No. 17, 21 which is consider and discuss the impact of House Bill 22 2169 on the proposed contracts with volunteer fire 23 departments in Kerr County. Commissioner Griffin. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. It has been 25 brought to all of our attentions, I believe, that -- that 106 1 there was some -- some great difficulty that the fire 2 departments had with the insurance clause that we had in 3 those new contracts, both in the amount, and to some 4 degree, I think in a case or two, some questions about 5 wording. And, by the way, I had hand-delivered to me this 6 weekend a copy from all of the chiefs of the fire 7 departments that outline essentially the same thing 8 that's -- that's in our agenda item here. I think that 9 what we probably need to do is just rewrite that section 10 of the contract to be in conformance with the law 11 that's -- that is referenced in the agenda item, a copy of 12 which is attached thereto. And, I would -- I think we can 13 do that with a simple motion just to do that, and to make 14 sure that the language that's in our insurance clause 15 reflects what the law says. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll make that as a 18 motion. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 20 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 21 amend the form of each of the specific volunteer fire 22 department contracts, insurance provision, to conform that 23 provision to the requirements of House Bill 2169, as 24 enacted. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What year was that 107 1 bill? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: 1997. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it's not 4 brand-new. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's in the Code 6 now, but I just didn't have time to dig that up and find 7 out where it was, but it was enacted -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we ought to 9 make it clear what this does, Judge, is changes the 10 language, the insurance section of the language as we had 11 promulgated it out to the various fire departments from 12 $1 million, $1 million, $1 million, individual occasion 13 occurrence, to $100,000, $300,000, $100,000. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. Any 15 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 16 right hand. 17 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item 21 is Item 18, consider and discuss implementation of 22 procedures and processes for the formation and operation 23 of road districts with bonding authority. Commissioner 24 Griffin. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. And attached 108 1 also to this agenda item is a general outline of the steps 2 in forming and administering a road district with bonding 3 authority. This is a subject that we've been working very 4 diligently, and a lot of time has been put in by the 5 County Attorney's office, by Commissioner Williams and 6 myself, on coming up with a way of doing it. We've 7 discussed it several times. What you see in that backup 8 material, that one-pager, is the steps that we have to go 9 through. 10 Now, what we need to do, I think, as a Court, is 11 to sort of lay out, you know, what -- we have two pending. 12 Commissioner Williams has one and I have one that we would 13 like to -- to get the ball rolling to see if we can form 14 the road district, if the voters want to approve the 15 bonding to bring the roads up to County standards and all 16 the rest, and sort of what is our next step. It appears 17 to me that there are two ways -- and Ilse Bailey is here, 18 so she can help me through this if I need it, but there 19 are two ways to get that ball rolling. Either a majority 20 of the voters in a proposed road district, as a first 21 step, can petition the Court, or if we were somehow 22 otherwise convinced to do so, we, the Court, can form the 23 road district on our own. 24 I don't think we ought to go the latter way. I 25 think we ought to go the first way. Because, ultimately, 109 1 two-thirds of the voters who vote for a bonding -- for a 2 bond issue are going to have to come from that same 3 cooler. So, I believe that we -- we can require that a -- 4 if we -- somebody wants to form a road district with 5 bonding authority, that they must present to the Court -- 6 to their Commissioner a petition containing the names of 7 the majority of the voters in that proposed district. 8 Some of the other detail here would have to be worked out. 9 But, I think it's important to note that that first 10 petition should have the name, address, and the voter 11 registration number for each of the individuals who signed 12 it, because we're going to have to somehow determine -- 13 and I've discussed it -- a little bit of that with Ilse 14 this morning. We've got to determine if a majority is 15 represented in that petition, which means we've got to go 16 to the voter registration list or to KCAD and find out who 17 lives there or who owns the property. Somehow or other, 18 we've got to determine a majority is represented, so we 19 need name, address, and voter registration number. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think your latter 21 point was correct, in that, you know, we need to -- we 22 need to determine the -- the ownership of the property, or 23 in absence of the -- well, the ownership. But that may 24 not necessarily be reflected on the voter registration 25 list. 110 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's correct. 2 And, so, that's the reason we need the address, the 3 physical address, not mailing address. We need the 4 physical address of each person signing the petition and 5 their voter registration number. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Even though they 7 might be a nonresident -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They may -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- they're still 10 voters in the -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, only if 12 they're -- only if they vote in that precinct. Now, 13 they're -- we'll have -- for example, in the one that's 14 pending in my precinct, Lake Ingram Estates, there's a lot 15 of absentee landowners that live in Houston or Dallas or 16 somewhere. They're not going to vote. They're going to 17 get taxed, but they're not going to vote. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Larry, I don't want 19 to disenfranchise an otherwise eligible family or person 20 in the proposed road district just because they didn't 21 register to vote. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They're going to 23 have to register to vote, because that's what the law 24 requires. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In a road district? 111 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. The majority 2 -- correct me if I'm wrong, Ilse. It's a majority of the 3 registered voters. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll find a lot 5 of shaking heads on this. 6 MS. BAILEY: You're really talking about 7 two different things, because you're talking about -- in 8 terms of determining whether or not you have a certain 9 number of people to trigger the road district from -- from 10 your point of view, you have to know how many landowners 11 there are and you have to collect 50 percent of those. 12 Now, landowners will be possibly some nonresident people; 13 therefore, nonvoters. That's a different question from 14 who can vote on the question. Once you create a road 15 district, then the law is real specific about what 16 percentage of the voters have to approve it before you can 17 pass the bond, and that can be -- it could be 100 percent 18 tenants. I mean, you could theoretically have a 19 residential area where none -- or a very small percentage 20 of the people actually living there are owners. They 21 could all be tenants. Now, the people who are registered 22 voters are -- are the ones in the road district who will 23 vote, and then if you get two-thirds of those voters 24 voting for it, you'll -- you'll pass the bond. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm still unclear, 112 1 Ilse. I want you to draw the distinction clearly. You 2 can live in a road district, you can own property, and are 3 you saying that just because you did not register to vote 4 in the primary or general election, you are 5 disenfranchised from voting on the road district issue? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Absolutely. 7 MS. BAILEY: Well, in the sense that if you 8 don't live here, you don't -- you're not eligible to vote 9 here. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I live here, I own 11 the property, I pay the taxes, but for some reason I 12 didn't register to vote in a general election. Are you 13 saying that we -- that individual is disenfranchised from 14 voting on the issue that is in front of him for the road 15 district? 16 MS. BAILEY: The only people that can vote 17 on it are the people that are registered voters. Now, one 18 of the things that Larry and I had discussed is that even 19 though it's not required by the statute, it would -- it 20 would probably be a very good idea -- and I would 21 recommend that in addition to the public notice of the 22 hearing for the road district that is held, we should also 23 make a -- the stated practice of sending a certified mail 24 notice to registered owners who may not be local, living 25 here locally. That way they not only have constructive 113 1 notice from the publication, but they actually get real 2 notice in time for them to register to vote. For instance 3 if they're able to vote in the district, but they had 4 chosen not to register for some other reason, this gives 5 them the -- the notice, and an opportunity to decide that 6 this is important enough that they would want to register 7 and to vote. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, they can cure 9 that deficiency? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All they have to do 11 is register. 12 MS. BAILEY: Yes. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just don't want 14 anyone to be disenfranchised -- it's a separate issue. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But there's 17 nothing -- when they see this petition, they say, "Gosh, I 18 want to sign that, but I'm not registered to vote." 19 That's a five-minutes-in-the-courthouse job. I mean, 20 register to vote, and then they can sign the petition. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm more concerned 22 about people that own the property and don't live here 23 that can't vote. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am, too. 25 MS. BAILEY: There's the ones that -- that 114 1 was why I thought that we should also mail notice, because 2 if someone lives in New Jersey and they own property here, 3 even though they're technically constructively on notice 4 if we put notice in the newspaper, they're not actually 5 going to know. And, so, I think it would be a good idea, 6 from a political point of view, if not a legally mandated 7 point of view, to send notice to nonresident owners. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Here, to me -- 9 I'll put a scenario -- an extreme case. Say Cecil 10 Atkission Motors happens to be right on the edge; nothing 11 else but rural property around them, which is pretty 12 close. They decide to form a road district out there, and 13 they decide to pull in that dealership. His one vote -- 14 and he doesn't live there, so he can't vote anyway. But 15 the property -- the value of that property is how you 16 determine the amount of taxes you may collect? Percentage 17 of the value? 18 MS. BAILEY: Well, we're talking about a 19 bond issue. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, but the damage 22 is -- 23 MS. BAILEY: You're right. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the landowners out 25 there could pull in one property owner with a whole lot of 115 1 value or property? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me interrupt 3 you. They don't pull in anything. This Court approves 4 the road district. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 6 MS. BAILEY: We determine the geographic -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We send notice to 8 the people who want to be -- you know, for the proposed 9 road district. It would include the -- the case that 10 you're talking about. You have the public hearing, which 11 we would have to be convinced that that wasn't a grab by 12 somebody if we approved the road district. 13 MS. BAILEY: He could come in at that 14 public hearing and say, "This is not fair for me to be in 15 this road district," and then you would decide. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: A more likely scenario is a 18 situation where you have, maybe, a majority of the owners 19 who are absentee owners, and the renters and the resident 20 owners want a road district, and it's a nice, contiguous 21 geographic -- it's not, you know, reaching out to get a 22 big tax bill. And the nonresident owners don't want the 23 road district because they only come up here twice a year, 24 whether they need to or not. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 116 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: And they get taxed to fix 2 the roads. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With no 4 representation. And that's -- that's exactly what goes on 5 out at his place. And one of those nonresident people is 6 a State Representative from some other area. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But, they -- the 8 whole thing is -- you know, we get down to a case where, 9 you know, are the roads needed? For example, in -- in 10 Commissioner Williams' area, obviously, that road needs to 11 be improved for the health, safety and welfare, and all of 12 those other good things for the people who live there. 13 The same in Ingram Lake Estates. And that's the nature of 14 the beast. That's the way the law is written, is the 15 voters will determine. It's not owner of record, it's 16 voters -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- that determine 19 that. It takes two-thirds of them for the bond issue. 20 MS. BAILEY: But you're right, it will make 21 a big difference to nonresident owners, 'cause not only do 22 they have the increased tax burden of the road, but then 23 their property values will increase because the roads are 24 there, and that increases taxes once again. But, of 25 course, they also have higher property values, so maybe 117 1 the trade-off is -- 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, in fact, in the 3 case of Ingram Lake Estates, the prime movers wanting to 4 form the road district to improve the roads are 5 nonresident owners. They're up there today convincing -- 6 convincing the people who live there to please vote for 7 it. Even though it's also going to raise their taxes, 8 they want the people who live there, even as tenants, to 9 vote. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two-thirds approval 11 is required of those who vote. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Of those who vote. 13 It's just a straight vote, but got to have 66 percent. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: High percentage. 15 There's some that don't vote. It's only two-thirds of 16 those who have actually cast a ballot. 17 MS. BAILEY: Very few people will make the 18 decision, that's right, but that's always the case. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can have a very 20 low turnout and still have it approved; it applies to 21 everybody. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there anything that we 23 need to do today? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we just need 25 to agree on this first step, because in pending cases, 118 1 Commissioner Williams and I can go back to our 2 constituents and say, "Okay, we need a petition from you 3 of registered voters in that proposed district," and it 4 has to be described adequately. By the way, it doesn't 5 have to be just a subdivision. You can have a subdivision 6 plus this property, this property, and this property. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is what would 8 be the case in my precinct. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It would be the case 10 in my -- 11 MS. BAILEY: We thought it would be 12 appropriate for the Commissioners Court to either adopt 13 this as a work in progress, but adopt it as -- as, right 14 now, the formula that needs to be followed, so that then a 15 property owner or resident who's interested can come down 16 and see what are the next things that they're going to 17 have to do, understanding that since we've not done this 18 before, we may add to this in the future or we may modify 19 different steps in the future. But, I think as far as the 20 first shot out of the barrel, this is a good blueprint to 21 use for the process. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that, 23 and I just want to be clear on Item No. 1, because as 24 Larry knows, I already have a petition on file from these 25 folks who want this done, but it doesn't contain voter 119 1 registration numbers, and I would have to go back out and 2 get it done again. And that's okay. So, I just want to 3 be clear about how that works. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On -- in Item 1, we're 5 going to delete the "or" part; we're only going to have -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, this is what 7 the law says. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. But what 10 we're saying is we're going to require a majority of the 11 registered voters to petition us. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: To form the 14 district. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this is going to 16 be our policy. Are we going to delete this "or"? 17 MS. BAILEY: You can keep that in there, 18 and with the understanding that there might be some 19 scenario in the future where you might want to do it that 20 way, but I can't really envision one. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All this says -- 22 we're just saying, procedurally, we're going to use the 23 first part of this and we're not going to use the second 24 part for -- at least for now. We might want to in the 25 future. 120 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only problem I had 2 was all of that verbiage in Number 4. Is that out of the 3 law also? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Straight out of the 5 law. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: After you establish 8 it, then either -- it's three cases. You either have to 9 have 50 registered voters in the road district, or a 10 majority, or all of the owners of property in the 11 district. And, now, notice that says nothing about 12 voters. That's owners of record. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the 14 difference between 1 and 4? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: One is establishing the 16 district. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One is establishing 18 the district. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: The other is calling for a 20 bond election. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you can't use 22 the same petition for -- that you got in Number 1 to 23 satisfy the requirements of Number 4. 24 MS. BAILEY: You could, theoretically, have 25 enough people to establish a road district, and not enough 121 1 to call the election for the bond. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And not say, "Hey, I 3 want a road district, but I changed my mind; I don't want 4 to pay." 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a 6 possibility. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Larry, can we 8 consider this a living document? 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It is a living 10 document, I guarantee. I want to thank Ilse for doing a 11 lot of work on this. A lot of Attorney Generals' opinions 12 involved in some of this, and it's -- it's not simple. 13 But, I think we got it down to something we can handle. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I think we 15 should go ahead and adopt it and move forward with it. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This doesn't require 17 a motion or anything. The point is just we want to 18 procedurally understand that we're going to press forward. 19 I'm going to do that, and I'm sure Commissioner Williams 20 is going to do it. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ilse's suggesting 22 we adopt it. 23 MS. BAILEY: Its either adopt it, or as you 24 say, universally approve it. I don't know that there 25 needs to be a motion and a second. There needs to be 122 1 something when a citizen comes in and says, "What's the 2 process?" You have a piece of paper you hand to them, and 3 it's the same one for everyone. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would prefer not to adopt 5 this formally, because it doesn't cover everything. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It doesn't cover the 8 notice, it doesn't cover all that, and I don't want to 9 mislead anyone. I'm fully -- fully in support of handing 10 this out to anyone who did it in their road district, say, 11 "Here's a map of the major steps that have to be taken in 12 order to form a road district and a bond election." 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That sets out that 14 there's a whole bunch of stuff we've got to do. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would prefer not to adopt 16 this as the -- the Court's approved laundry list, because 17 there's quite a bit that's left out. It doesn't need to 18 be in here. They don't need to know about how many 19 notices Jannett has to send out and what timeframe and all 20 that, but that is part of the process, so I don't want to 21 take any formal action that's going to mislead someone. 22 So, I think I would prefer simply to say grace over this 23 as a consensus of the Court that this is a road map of the 24 major steps that have to be taken in forming a road 25 district and having a bond election. 123 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I notice that the -- 2 once you get to the election on the bond issue, that has 3 to be done on Uniform Election Day. We cannot put that on 4 a primary. Specifically, primary dates are excluded. You 5 cannot do them -- an election on primary election day. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, in our case -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: May. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May. This coming 9 May? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yes, it's the 11 earliest Uniform Election Day that we can do. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions for 14 Ilse? Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you very much. 16 Finally, we have -- we know what we have to do. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Brown, do you need some 19 setup time, or are you ready to rock and roll? 20 MR. BROWN: Couple of minutes. Everything 21 I have is just outside the door. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we call your 23 number next, and everybody take a deep breath while the 24 General Manager of the U.G.R.A. makes ready to do a 25 presentation under heading number 22. Just as filler 124 1 here, I think -- actually, I think a majority of the Court 2 has attended the U.G.R.A. Board meeting last Wednesday 3 where they discussed and approved the revised 24/48-month 4 plan, and I asked Jim if he would come and make a short 5 presentation as to the major items on the new U.G.R.A. 6 plan. I don't think we need to get into the ins and outs 7 of the different treatment plant engineering studies, but 8 I think everyone will be interested in knowing where we're 9 headed at this time. 10 MR. BROWN: For the record, my name is Jim 11 Brown, General Manager of the Upper Guadalupe River 12 Authority. Judge Henneke and members of the Court, we 13 appreciate the opportunity to come and make a very brief 14 presentation about what's now called the Kerr County 15 Regional Water System Plan. Hopefully, one of these days, 16 we can come back and talk about a regional wastewater 17 system plan, but I think we've got a legislative session 18 to work through before we can do that. Let me just go 19 over some of the -- some of the highlights of the plan. 20 There may be some areas of the plan that -- particularly 21 out in west Kerr County, that Commissioner Griffin and I 22 may need to visit with on a one-to-one, and down in the 23 Center Point area down here, where Commissioner Williams 24 and I may need to explore some additional options. 25 The plan is based on the future challenges to 125 1 U.G.R.A. One is increasing population and water demands 2 in Kerr County. Obviously, the declining ground water 3 supply, which we're all aware of, the tightening of 4 drinking water regulations that -- that's soon coming from 5 E.P.A. And, the investor-owned utilities, and then 6 increasing competition for surface water rights in Kerr 7 County. The -- the plan obviously gives U.G.R.A. some 8 road maps that will allow us to go out and secure 9 additional water rights. 10 I have some exhibits. Unfortunately, they're on 11 film, and I didn't think we had time to set up for that 12 presentation, so I'd be happy to come back. But, 13 obviously, in 1987, when the U.G.R.A. water treatment 14 plant went on -- came online, you can see the chart that 15 I'm looking at. This is the Trinity Aquifer, and it shows 16 a decline of the aquifer in 1949 down to about 1987, when 17 the U.G.R.A. plant came online. Then the rebound of the 18 aquifer. But, as the City of Kerrville has continued to 19 grow and the -- the areas around the City of Kerrville 20 supplied by these investor-owned utilities, you can see 21 we're beginning to pull the aquifer back down. And, there 22 is some -- there's some significant concern about -- about 23 our long-term water supply. 24 Commissioner Letz, as you all know, chairs the 25 Plateau Regional Water Planning group. We are, as we 126 1 speak, looking at the review copy of the water resources 2 availability in both ground and surface water, and -- and 3 all the counties in the region, and more specifically, our 4 concern right now is incurred in Bandera, because we're 5 really -- as far as the ground water issue is concerned, 6 we're really dipping out of the same bucket for ground 7 water issues. And, obviously, there's some additional 8 demands on surface water issues by some folks in -- in our 9 adjacent regions. 10 Well, what this -- some of the benefits that the 11 plan provides is the decreased reliance on ground water 12 as -- as we continue to grow. And, the other -- the other 13 positive aspect of the plan is that -- that as these areas 14 continue to grow out in here and down in this area -- and, 15 of course, this is Kerrville South and -- and Turtle Creek 16 development area. This is Northwest Hills and Harper Road 17 and -- and the growth area out in the county. But, as we 18 continue to subdivide, if we don't have rural water 19 systems or supplies out there, we're going to find a 20 proliferation of independent water wells being drilled 21 into the already competitive Middle Trinity. And -- and 22 that's an aquifer, obviously, that can't support a lot of 23 growth in the future. 24 If you recall the -- the HDR plan that was done 25 in conjunction with the City of Kerrville, KPUB, and 127 1 U.G.R.A., the plan shows that in the outlying areas of 2 Kerr County that are currently totally dependent on the 3 ground water supply, is that somewhere around 2035, with 4 growth continuing as it's projected to continue, then we 5 will have ground water shortages in the outlying reaches 6 of Kerr County. The move for the -- the plan -- or the 7 plan moves the water demand, again, out of the aquifer 8 system and shifts the majority of it back over on the 9 river. 10 The plan -- the concept we're looking at today 11 does not immediately shift all of the water dependency 12 over on surface water. The majority of it goes there, but 13 there is -- there is some dependency on ground water to 14 meet peaking periods during the summer and -- and to meet 15 the times when the river -- turbidity level in the river 16 is such that we can't treat the water to acceptable 17 standards. The -- the phasing of the plan allows U.G.R.A. 18 to develop a customer base. When we get to about 500 19 additional acre feet of water demand out of the -- out of 20 the aquifer, or we are at least in the total water base, 21 then we kick in Phase II of the plan. And, the reason 22 we're not building a plant large enough to accommodate 23 everyone on the first date is the sticker shock that 24 the -- that the customers would suffer from paying for the 25 unused capacity in that plant. Obviously, the debt 128 1 service on the plant gets passed along to the -- to the 2 individual water users. 3 And, as the plan continues to grow, and 4 somewhere around 2020, by that time U.G.R.A. should -- 5 should have a customer base that allows it to move into 6 the third tier of development, which gets us close to 7 almost 90 percent dependency on ground water -- I mean, 8 I'm sorry, on surface water. And then, as the county 9 continues to grow, when we reach a certain peak, then this 10 -- this plant is modular and we simply just adapt another 11 portion of the treatment and the filtration system to the 12 existing plant, so when you -- keep in mind that it's kind 13 of a Lego kind of a construction project; that as we need 14 more, we snap into it. 15 One of the other -- one of the other aspects of 16 this plan is that U.G.R.A. plans to either acquire title 17 to or acquire use of the -- the stronger wells out in 18 these existing independent investor-owned utilities in 19 order to do two things. One, we obviously have to 20 convince the bond buyers that -- that these folks are not 21 going to get mad at us and go out and turn the switch and 22 quit buying water from U.G.R.A. and causing U.G.R.A. to 23 default on the bonds. There was two approaches to that. 24 One approach that was tried before U.G.R.A. got in this 25 business with the take-or-pay contract -- and the 129 1 investor-owned utilities are not in favor of that. So, 2 we've come back with a different contract approach, which 3 apparently is much more acceptable to the IOU's and allows 4 them to sell the water if they want to, but keep it if 5 they prefer. Obviously, the latter works better for us, 6 because we -- we certainly can reduce the bond 7 indebtedness. 8 Now, if you'll notice, the dark blue lines here 9 are the major transmission lines, and we're trying 10 something new. We have T.N.R.C.C.'s blessing on that. On 11 the proposal, of instead of building transmission lines to 12 each of the investor-owned utilities in these areas, that 13 we will bring water into the front door of one utility and 14 maybe use his lines to wheel water from this point back 15 out to some of the other IOU's in the area, one, reducing 16 the cost of the project, which, again, allows U.G.R.A. 17 to -- to lower the fee -- the monthly water fee. So, this 18 is a new thing. We went to T.N.R.C.C. It's based on what 19 the electrical power companies have been doing for the 20 last 15 or 20 years, and it's called "wheeling." We wheel 21 electricity. Now we've gone to T.N.R.C.C. and -- and 22 impressed on them the savings to the customers and -- and 23 have their blessing to start talking about wheeling the 24 water through the system. 25 The other -- by doing this, there's also -- 130 1 there's a redundancy and a backup system. If you have an 2 IOU, let's say, in this area, and -- and his plant goes 3 down, then we can-- we can obviously, through our valving 4 system, get water into that subdivision. So, instead of 5 having subdivisions without water two and three, four 6 days, like we did a couple years ago, it would be a matter 7 of hours or minutes, hopefully. We can reroute water and 8 get it into -- into his system. Again, much like the 9 power grids work in the electrical utility business. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Brown, could I 11 ask a you question up to that point? 12 MR. BROWN: Yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If my memory serves 14 me, the IOU's are assigned a particular geographic area by 15 T.N.R.C.C. 16 MS. BROWN: That's correct, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And -- and 18 you're talking about using their pipelines and then 19 possibly moving from one IOU to another IOU, so they 20 possibly could be -- I mean, I don't know. I -- I just 21 have this horrible picture of having to redo miles of pipe 22 to get from -- get from one IOU designated area to 23 another. 24 MR. BROWN: And that's a good question. 25 Our response to that is that in some of these IOU's in 131 1 here, we can't wheel water through them because we know 2 that their system will not be able to handle the -- the 3 pressure, for one. And, so, at this point we would -- we 4 would just have to bypass. Now, we've talked to some of 5 the IOU's who need to upgrade their system, and we're 6 willing to sit down and -- and build a transmission line 7 that will allow them to buy capacity in that line in order 8 to -- in order to give better service to their system. In 9 other words, if we built a line for 500,000 gallons or 500 10 gallons -- 500,000 gallons to satisfy our needs, and 11 the -- the IOU needs 150,000 gallons to upgrade his 12 system, then what we would do is just prorate and sell to 13 him that capacity of the line and he will only pay for 14 that capacity. 15 And, so, the -- the plant -- the treatment 16 process, we're considering diverting water out of what's 17 now called the City of -- I don't know what it's called. 18 Used to be called the U.G.R.A. Lake; it belongs to the 19 City now. Take the water out of that plant, but build a 20 plant somewhere nearby that's out of the 100-year 21 floodplain. Then we would pump water up to a -- a point 22 here off of Sheppard Rees Road that's the highest point in 23 this entire area of the county. And, so, we would then 24 have the opportunity to gravity-flow most of our water 25 from the reservation sites here back out into west Kerr 132 1 County and down into south Kerr County, and then on down 2 into east Kerr County. 3 You will notice that -- that the Center Point 4 area is not colored in at this point. We do have proposed 5 a pipeline down to Center Point. The reason for that is 6 that U.G.R.A. is in discussions with the Kendall County 7 WC & ID out of Comfort. They are in a situation where 8 they're going to have to either get out of their water 9 wells or they're going to have to at least mix surface 10 water with their water wells, because they have a -- 11 they're -- they have an increasing salt content in their 12 water, and -- and it's -- it's approaching the area that 13 it may not meet future drinking water standards. So, what 14 we're saying is that there may be a second water treatment 15 plant built down here somewhere on Center Point Lake, in 16 that general area, that would supply the Center Point 17 area, pump water back this way, and also pump water down 18 to -- to Comfort. 19 And, again, that would be a joint project funded 20 by -- by U.G.R.A. and -- and the Kendall County WC & ID 21 Number 1. If that turns out not to be a reality, then 22 U.G.R.A. will construct this line here. We are -- the 23 U.G.R.A. Board and the Kerrville City Council are having 24 discussions together -- at least the U.G.R.A. Project 25 Committee and the City of Kerrville's water liaison 133 1 councilman are having some very, very positive, very 2 strong conversations about -- about how this system may 3 work as a regional system. That could give the City of 4 Kerrville some redundancy by opening a valve from this 5 system back into theirs in case they have a plant -- plant 6 goes down or something of this nature. So, we're looking 7 at a whole lot of new things. 8 I'm real happy to say that I -- that while the 9 relationship between U.G.R.A. and the City in the past has 10 been somewhat strained, there certainly is -- there 11 certainly has been a great recovery in that area. And 12 I'll not get into that, because I think the appropriate 13 members of my board and the City Council, one of these 14 days, will make that announcement public. But, I have to 15 say that because -- because, in the interim, where we have 16 areas in here that we may not be able to get our pipeline 17 to, and yet the airport's over here and the City of 18 Kerrville has water at the airport. We're talking about, 19 on an interim basis, buying water for the City here and 20 supply -- supply these areas until we get the system built 21 out to them. 22 So, we're not looking at holding Center Point 23 and some of these areas off for a lengthy period of time. 24 If we need to, we'll buy -- buy water from the City of 25 Kerrville and get it down there, and that it's one those 134 1 situations where we'll do raw water balance accounting, 2 and we'll just transfer X amount, number of gallons of raw 3 water, out of our count over to the City's count. The 4 initial services of this program is designed to provide 5 services to 16 investor-owned utilities. 6 Now, there was an article in the Mountain Sun; 7 it was a letter to the Mountain Sun that indicated the 8 U.G.R.A. is trying to move in and -- and upset the 9 entrepreneurial system. We have absolutely no 10 intention -- we have no desire -- I'm not sure we could 11 sell the bonds if we wanted to, but we are -- we're not 12 interested -- our interest is to provide treated surface 13 water and sell it to the IOU's, or maybe sell it directly 14 to the their customers through the IOU's. And that, 15 again, is a contractual matter. Both are viable options. 16 And, to move the dependency off of the ground water system 17 into the -- into the surface water. 18 This area out here was not considered in the 19 original plan, but one of the -- two of the investor-owned 20 utilities out here that we have major connections come to 21 us and ask us if we would consider adding that to the 22 plan. And we have -- we just don't have the engineering 23 for it at this point. But, the plan -- the initial plan 24 for this -- this area, here and here, and we'll consider 25 Center Point is going to serve approximately 11,000 135 1 people. It reduces the ground water demand in all of 2 these areas by 525 million gallons of water a year. So, 3 we're making a significant conservation effort on the 4 preservation and the savings of the ground water. 5 I don't need to get into the -- into the 6 technical side, but we are looking at three major types of 7 treatment; that's the old conventional system like we have 8 here in Kerrville now, the high-rate conventional 9 treatment, which is a step up from the plant that U.G.R.A. 10 sold the City. The one I think that we're really looking 11 at is the membrane treatment technology, and that's a 12 micro and ultra-filtration process which -- which will 13 meet the 2000 -- 2006 E.P.A. drinking water standards that 14 we're all going to be forced to meet in those days. And 15 the third we're looking at is reverse osmosis. While 16 reverse osmosis gives us the best treatment, it is 17 extremely expensive and we just don't think that the 18 income -- spendable income for the majority of the people 19 in these areas here is such that we could pass that debt 20 service along and keep their water at a reasonable rate. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jim, let me ask a 22 question before you move forward. I'm not certain about 23 one thing you said, and I also want to understand what 24 your plan might be in the future to accommodate areas such 25 as Guadalupe Heights. And then, if you would, please 136 1 explain a little further the raw water accountability or 2 transfer of raw water between U.G.R.A. and the City of 3 Kerrville, and how and where would that be treated in 4 order to do that and send it down to Center Point? 5 MR. BROWN: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's go into the 7 water accounting first. 8 MR. BROWN: Okay. U.G.R.A. has 2,000 acre 9 feet of water in our hands, and we're negotiating a 10 contract for an additional 2,000 acre feet with G.B.R.A. 11 That's in our accounts. The City of Kerrville has just a 12 little less than 2,000 acre feet of water out of the -- 13 the permit that we split with them when we sold the plant, 14 and then they have about 3,600 acre feet of water. That's 15 the -- that's the old U.G.R.A. permit that was given to 16 the City. Let's say that -- let's say that the City, over 17 a period of a year's time, processes a quantity of water 18 for U.G.R.A. that would equal, let's say, 180 acre feet of 19 water. Now, they would treat it in their plant, and what 20 we would do is we would -- we would go to the Water 21 Master, and for that year for water accounting, we would 22 simply transfer 180 acre feet of water out of our permit 23 into the City's permit. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I understand 25 that now. But, I guess all that presupposes that, first 137 1 of all, the City of Kerrville has the treatment capacity, 2 or it plans to expand its treatment capacity to take on 3 some added -- is that correct? 4 MR. BROWN: The latter is correct. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 MR. BROWN: They do not have the capacity. 7 They are -- they're moving, at this point, to -- to look 8 at expanding that plant. And this is one of the other 9 things that U.G.R.A. has offered the City under the new 10 expansion -- plant expansion scenarios. If we're -- and I 11 think we're both looking at the membrane system. You have 12 to conduct a pilot project, which costs about $25,000. In 13 other words, you have to bring a plant down here, set it 14 up, and you take the water and run it through, and you run 15 it through various treatment protocols till you find the 16 one that works best for your area. Then, that tells 17 T.N.R.C.C. what kind of filter they're going to make you 18 put in the plant. So, we have offered to the City that, 19 instead of U.G.R.A. doing a pilot project and the City 20 doing a pilot project, let's do one together and split the 21 cost. Regardless of where -- regardless of where the 22 plant's going, the water's coming out of the same pool, so 23 the chemistry of the water is going to be such that the 24 results would be equal. 25 Now, you asked about Guadalupe Heights. 138 1 That's -- that's one of the target areas that we have 2 discussed with the City where we potentially could buy 3 water out of the new water main that they've constructed 4 out to the airport. U.G.R.A. would have a meter. We 5 would buy water at that point and -- and pipe it under the 6 highway into the Guadalupe Heights system. And, our same 7 thought is about Center Point. If we -- if we bought 8 water on a temporary basis from City of Kerrville -- 9 eventually, we have to build this -- this pipeline down to 10 Center Point, so we go ahead and build the pipeline in 11 this part of it, but instead of going through the expense 12 of building all this back in here, we'd simply buy water 13 here somewhere, put in that pipe, and send it to the 14 Center Point area. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 16 MR. BROWN: The last thing that -- that I 17 want to share with you is we're on a real tight timeline. 18 The engineers have instructions to finalize the 19 preliminary engineering plan and have that information and 20 the -- the cost of the plan back to U.G.R.A. no later than 21 February of 2000. Our plan, then, is -- is to start 22 immediately, and from February through April, U.G.R.A. 23 will be negotiating the surface contracts with the 24 individual investor-owned utilities. In July of 2000, 25 we'll sell the bonds, and then final engineering, 139 1 construction of document design begun. In April of 2001, 2 we'll begin the project, which -- which includes the 3 intake structure, the water treatment plant, the service 4 lines that you see in -- the dark blue lines into the -- 5 the areas, and by June of 2002, we'll be running water 6 through these systems to the -- to the investor-owned 7 utilities. It's rather ambitious, but we think we can 8 make it. We're just not going to have a lot of idle time 9 between now and then. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Like, zero. 11 MS. BROWN: Gentlemen, that's -- that's our 12 brief report. I'd be happy to take this to your precincts 13 and meet with your folks out there, if you have Town Hall 14 meetings. I will be -- Commissioner Baldwin and 15 Commissioner Williams, we will give this plus a little bit 16 more at the -- Kerrville South CAG annual meeting next 17 month. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 21st. 19 MS. BROWN: February 21st. And we're 20 scheduled to meet with some folks in an area out here, a 21 group that I'm not at liberty to mention their names now, 22 but it's in your precinct. So, we will see that all these 23 presentations are coordinated and the Court's advised as 24 to the time and place of the presentations. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 140 1 questions or comments for Mr. Brown? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do it. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: As you say, 4 ambitious. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Jim, for taking 6 your time to come over and -- 7 MR. BROWN: Well -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- inform us as to the good 9 work that you're planning here. 10 MS. BROWN: Judge, let me -- let me extend 11 our thanks and appreciation to the Court for having us 12 over, giving us this opportunity. Again, this does two 13 things for Kerr County. One, it helps us develop a plan 14 that addresses the conservation of the Trinity Aquifer 15 system, and secondly, it gives us a plan that will 16 certainly enhance the quality of life of the folks who are 17 living in the unincorporated areas of Kerr County. So, 18 again, thank you for the opportunity. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 20 MR. BROWN: If you have any questions, call 21 us. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. At this time, the 23 Court's going to take luncheon recess. We'll reconvene at 24 1:30. 25 (A recess was taken from 12:03 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 141 1 - - - - - - - - - - 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 1:30 p.m. on Monday, 3 January 24th, Year 2000. We'll reconvene this Special 4 Session of Kerr County Commissioners Court. First item on 5 the agenda is to consider and discuss schedule and process 6 for hiring a Purchasing Agent, and organizing and 7 implementing a county purchasing function in time to 8 support to development of FY 2001 budget. Commissioner 9 Griffin. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I had proposed this 11 some time ago, and then we decided to delay it until now. 12 And, really, all I wanted -- I was looking for mostly just 13 sort of information and an idea of how that -- how the 14 process is going to move forward when we spring on it. 15 Because I understand that the Judges -- our District 16 Judges and you have to -- as a part of the process that 17 you take care of, we -- the Court funds it, and -- but 18 sort of what's going to happen and in what order and what 19 kind of schedule. That's it, really. I put it on so we 20 can kick it around, better understand what's going to 21 happen. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's my understanding that 23 in a county our size, that the District Judges would 24 appoint a Purchasing Agent. Is that your understanding, 25 Tommy? And, if it will be funded by the County -- 142 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But they would -- it 2 would be more or less agreed, we would go out and find an 3 individual, and then, as part of the hiring process, they 4 would appoint that individual to act as the Purchasing 5 Agent. And, we would have to develop a staffing pattern 6 and find office space and all that. But, what we -- we 7 talked about last summer when we were doing the budget was 8 to try to hire that person in the April-May timeframe so 9 that they could be on-board, be part of the budget 10 process, and be ready to start in fully effectively at the 11 end of September. So, it's real timely to talk about this 12 now, talk about how we want to go about advertising for 13 that individual. We probably ought to go back and talk to 14 the District Judges and make sure they're still interested 15 in the concept so we don't waste any time, but that's kind 16 of the general outline and the process, the way I see it. 17 Does anyone have any comments or suggestions? 18 I would think that we -- we might want to talk a 19 little bit about when to announce it. Not necessarily 20 when the person may start. Maybe, as you say, May-June. 21 Do we want to shoot for, like, a 60-day search time or 22 evaluation -- search and evaluation, or before that? Or 23 when would be -- I guess I'm asking when we want to get it 24 to, maybe, the Texas Workforce Commission or -- the 25 Purchasing Agents Society of America bulletin board, or -- 143 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or an advertisement 2 in the -- in the County magazine, if we -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. Maybe we want 4 to consider something like that. I guess it's sort of a 5 strategy which would lead to some of the timing on that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Commissioner 7 and I talked about it on a couple of occasions, and we 8 sort of believe that there probably is or probably are 9 some really qualified, competent, number two people in 10 already established purchasing departments who may be 11 looking for an opportunity to be on the ground floor of 12 the establishment of a department. And, what we have to 13 do is identify who they are and where they are and what 14 the cost is to acquire the right type of individual, and 15 that's going to take a little bit of time to do that. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seems that we ought 17 to -- I mean, by the first of March -- the first meeting 18 in March, time-wise, is going to be a time we ought to 19 have our ducks in a row and go public with it. I mean, 20 'cause that gives you -- 30 or 45, 60 days, whatever we 21 want, that puts us into May to start with the interviewing 22 process, or hopefully by May, end of May, have someone 23 picked out and hired. 'Cause it will probably take two to 24 three months to get that done. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that kind of 144 1 position, I'm thinking that probably most people will want 2 to go -- are going to want to give substantial notice to 3 their current employer, so we -- even though they may not 4 go on until June 1, as an example, we may want to have 5 them named as early as May 1. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thirty days before 8 their start date. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, do we -- is there 10 a -- I'm sure there's generic and legislative, you know, 11 job descriptions for Purchasing Agent, but, at the same 12 time, I'm sure that can be tweaked to what we want. And, 13 I think that -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- between now and 16 March 1st, we need to -- or first we need to figure out 17 exactly what we're looking for, and then, you know -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Toward that end, I 19 have downloaded, early this morning, the job descriptions 20 off of the Texas State web site for what they call 21 "Purchasers." They have Purchasers 1, 2, 3, and 4's, and 22 that is a good place, I think, to start with the job 23 description. Number one, they all -- you know, the State 24 purchasing agents all have to abide by the same laws the 25 County agents -- or I should say that vice-versa. The 145 1 County purchasing agents have to abide by the same State 2 laws. So, some familiarity and some consistency and 3 what's required for those jobs is -- is probably -- 4 adequate. So, I think we can depart from that and we can 5 come up with a good job description, I think, pretty 6 quick. And, I'll be glad to take that as -- from those 7 things that I downloaded and try to come up with a draft 8 that we can circulate for comment, and at some point later 9 on this year, we need to tie that down so that we can use 10 that in our announcements. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a packet of 12 some pretty pertinent information that I got from the 13 Purchasing Agent of Ector County, and they have one of the 14 premier departments. And, she also -- that lady also 15 happens to be the head of the statewide organization of 16 purchasing agents, so we do have some stuff at our 17 fingertips we can use as models or whatever. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it would be 19 appropriate to set ourselves a timetable of approving the 20 job description by the end of February -- second meeting 21 in February so that we can -- I don't know what the 22 time -- I don't know what the time is, I guess, for 23 getting in the County magazine or something like that, but 24 it would come close. We can circulate it early in March 25 and, you know, give people 30 days to apply or something 146 1 like that, which would give us time to do any cuts that we 2 feel necessary. Tommy, do you have any thoughts on -- on 3 how we're going to identify prospective -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I think -- the 5 only thing I would have to offer, really, is that -- is 6 that this position is -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, I'm sorry, I 8 can't hear you. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: This -- the only thing that 10 I would have to offer is that this department or this 11 individual, even the process of a Purchasing Agent, 12 will -- will have a -- a broad effect on my office and the 13 Treasurer's office. I know that, from my conversations 14 with -- with auditors over the state, that -- that, you 15 know, my -- in particular, my office will have daily 16 interaction with that person. For -- for that reason, 17 I -- you know, I would -- I would surely like to be 18 involved in the -- in the process. I mean, in the 19 selection process. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Absolutely. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: There's -- you know, 22 there's -- there's also accounting ramifications also, 23 depending on how sophisticated we get in the process. I 24 know that there's -- there's data processing software 25 available through T.S.G. that integrates with -- with 147 1 accounts payable software and budgetary accounting 2 software that we have right now. There -- there would be 3 a lead time in trying to acquire that and get it 4 installed, if that's -- if that's how sophisticated we 5 want to be. We don't have to do that, but -- but I -- I 6 can see some benefits to it. 7 I also found out, you know, this past week in -- 8 in Plano, that -- that Software Group -- well, about a 9 year ago, they merged with -- with a company called 10 Government Records Company. They -- I wouldn't exactly 11 call it a merger, but what they did is they formed a 12 parent company. And -- and that process, they went 13 public, and since that time have purchased, like, 19 or 20 14 smaller data processing companies all over the country. 15 And, as a result of that, they have -- they have acquired 16 very a sophisticated and up-to-date financial package, and 17 it's -- it's a Windows-based software that runs off the 18 platform that we use now; however, it's -- it's much more 19 user-friendly. And -- and so, if -- if we -- you know, if 20 we decide to spend -- spend the funds to buy purchase 21 order packets that goes with what we have now, I would 22 like to also maybe entertain the thought of -- of changing 23 what we have now to -- to a new system. And, I -- right 24 now, I don't have any idea what -- you know, what kind of 25 dollars we're talking about. But, they told me while I 148 1 was up there, that they have -- they have discontinued the 2 process of -- of upgrading the software that we now have 3 in favor of what they've purchased, so -- because they 4 recognize themselves that -- that it's much, much better. 5 And, so, you know, I would like to -- in the process of -- 6 of forming this Purchasing Department, I'd like to think 7 about those issues, as well. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. Good thoughts. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there such a 10 thing as a Texas Association of Purchasers? I mean, are 11 they -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, there are. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They have their own 14 little organization and they're required to be certified 15 by the State, CEU's? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: They -- the Texas 17 Association of County Auditors currently offer continuing 18 education for the -- when we -- when we have our institute 19 and our -- and our conference, we also have subjects on 20 our agenda that also, you know, affect them too. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that closely 22 related to -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: So, we're closely related, 24 as far as organizations. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've heard some 149 1 opposition, not only in this courthouse, but a couple of 2 other courthouses. I'm not real sure what the opposition 3 is. The counties that I have visited with are happy they 4 have the program. I'll give you an example, Guadalupe 5 County. They've had a Purchasing Agent in there for about 6 a year now, and it took -- it's taken them about a year to 7 get over this proverbial "turf" problem that all the 8 courthouses have, and they're just -- they're thrilled. 9 The Commissioner Court's thrilled with it down there. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, before -- before we, 11 you know, get started, I would like to -- to -- or maybe 12 one of you, and maybe the Treasurer and I could -- could 13 maybe go to Hays County. Hays County has the same 14 software that we do, and, they -- they have an operation 15 that -- that I think works the way that I'd like to see 16 ours work. So, I think it would be of some benefit to go 17 and visit with them and see how -- see how they have their 18 operation set up. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, when can you 20 get away to go to Hays County? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll pick a day to 22 go. Tommy and Barbara, we'll just do that. We'll get 23 that little task force going. We'll do that, absolutely, 24 I agree with you. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it would be very 150 1 beneficial. There -- there are some -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We might even get 3 Commissioner Griffin to fly us up there. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, one at a time. 5 Might take awhile. You might be able to hike faster. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Larry's Flying 7 Service. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll get there one 9 way or another. You set it up. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Who else wants to talk? I 11 don't see anybody else who's interested. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think Mrs. Uecker 13 has something to say. 14 MS. PIEPER: I normally don't make waves, 15 gentlemen, but I'm not sure that I'm in agreement with 16 you. Since I took office, I order in bulk my marriage 17 licenses, my birth certificates, my death certificates. 18 Whatever I can, I order once a year. Now, as far as pens 19 and pencils, we order every couple of -- of months or 20 whenever we need it, so I don't know that a Purchasing 21 Agent is going to help my office any. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: How much staff time do you 23 spend in determining how much to purchase or what -- 24 MS. PIEPER: How much staff time? I do it 25 myself, so I really -- 151 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: How much of your time, 2 then, is devoted to something that shouldn't be your 3 responsibility? 4 MS. PIEPER: Not much. I have a cabinet. 5 If I get down to two packages of pens, I just kind of mark 6 a little tally on my list and then, after I get maybe 7 several items, then we call Office Depot, who gives us 50, 8 60 percent off. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: What about your marriage 10 licenses and things like that? 11 MS. PIEPER: I order those once a year. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: How much time do you spend 13 in determining what to order and how much to order? 14 MS. PIEPER: All I have to do is figure out 15 how many we use per year, and then order just maybe a 16 little bit over that, so it doesn't take any time at all. 17 And then there's a lot of State specs that we have to go 18 by, so I can't just go out to, maybe, Herring Printing or 19 Braswell Printing or something and say, "Give me these." 20 It's -- to me, I think if we had to go through a 21 Purchasing Department, that it might take me a little bit 22 longer to tell the Purchasing Department what specs I have 23 to go through. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Linda? 25 MS. UECKER: Well, I personally don't have 152 1 a turf problem with the Purchasing Department. And I, 2 too, have spoken with some other counties, and of course 3 the Commissioners Courts are happy with the program, but I 4 don't think, in most cases, that the rest of the 5 courthouse is. I can't believe that this Court is 6 considering spending $50,000, $60,000 to set up a 7 Purchasing Department to order supplies that don't even 8 total that much in a year's time. Yeah, we're talking 9 about pens and pencils and maybe bond paper, but every 10 office has such specialized ordering and, like, forms that 11 have to meet State statutes, like Jannett says, statutes 12 that a purchasing person, whatever his title is going to 13 be, is not going to know, or shouldn't know. It's not 14 their responsibility to know. We spend very little time 15 ordering. And, on a bet, I can get a heck of a better 16 price on any of those items than a Purchasing Agent can. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll take that bet. 18 MS. UECKER: Okay. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: You also have to remember, 20 we're talking about a $7.3 million budget. We're not 21 talking about buying just pens and paper. We're talking 22 about everything the County purchases; the cars we 23 purchased this morning, the tractor we purchased, service. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Computers. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Computers. We're not just 153 1 talking about pens and paper and forms. That may be what 2 you all focus on, because that's what's right in front of 3 you. 4 MS. UECKER: Okay. How would this 5 purchasing -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Everything the County buys. 7 MS. UECKER: Okay. How would that affect, 8 like, specialized forms, forms that maybe I'm the only one 9 in the whole courthouse that may have to buy those things? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: It might not affect those, 11 but if we can get -- if we can get a 10-percent reduction 12 on the cost of everything the County buys -- 13 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- that will pay for the 15 Purchasing Agent. 16 MS. UECKER: I wouldn't be opposed to it 17 based on things like vehicles or computers or Capital 18 Outlay items, but when it comes to, like, your summonses 19 and things like that, if I -- I can get a better price 20 than any purchasing agent can, because our forms are 21 totally different than maybe somebody else's -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What we have to do 23 on those, though, is establish the stock level that you 24 want maintained, and the Purchasing Agent will do that. 25 And that will require milliseconds of his time or her 154 1 time. 2 MS. UECKER: It requires milliseconds of 3 mine. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's what I mean. 5 So, you're not -- it's not adding any work to anybody. 6 The point is that if we can save 10 percent of -- of a 7 $7 million purchasing account total for the County -- I 8 don't know whether that's high low or otherwise; it's 9 probably low. But, if we can save 10 percent -- if we 10 can save 5 percent, we can pay for a Purchasing Agent. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Over and over 12 again. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. So, I mean, 14 it's -- we're not -- 15 MS. UECKER: In my mind, that's 16 questionable. And maybe I don't have enough information 17 on what this purchasing person is going to do, but I'm 18 certainly open-minded, that I'd like to know what this 19 person's going to do and how it's going to affect our 20 purchasing ability, because in the years that I've dealt 21 with my vendors, you know, I've -- I can get a hell of a 22 deal. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, and I suspect, 24 in that case, where you have long-established 25 relationships with vendors that are reliable and 155 1 well-priced, that Purchasing Agent's not going to want to 2 change that. That Purchasing Agent is going to keep it 3 right where it is, because that person is looking for the 4 best price and the best deal, too. So, if you already 5 have that -- that's just less research that person has to 6 do. So, that's great. 7 MS. UECKER: Well, the other thing that I'm 8 concerned about is overpurchasing. We're going to end up 9 with surpluses, and this is what I hear in other counties, 10 surpluses of items that are no longer in use; ribbons that 11 don't fit printers, or -- every one of us has a different 12 printer. We use toner cartridges that are very expensive. 13 But, the three machines that I have, the toner cartridges 14 are different in every one of them, and I don't think 15 there is another person in the courthouse that has toner 16 cartridges that fit any of those. And we're going to end 17 up with stock items that are not going to be able to be 18 used. That -- that's the one thing that I hear about -- 19 the complaint from the other counties. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that makes an 21 argument for standardizing the types of printers we use. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does to me. 23 MS. UECKER: Maybe so, but I don't think 24 there's such an animal as a standardized -- I mean, when 25 you start talking about different vendors and different 156 1 options, and with new technology that's abounding every 2 day, there's no such thing as standardizing those. 3 There's too many proprietorships within, you know, 3-M, 4 Xerox, and all those. That's not going to happen. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's just a question of 6 licensing software. You can write a software that will 7 run from this machine to that printer, you know. You 8 don't have to buy a customized software. 9 MS. UECKER: That's not what I'm talking 10 about. I don't think you realize what I'm saying there. 11 As far as the equipment, itself. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: As far as buying. 13 MS. UECKER: Maybe I just need some more 14 information, I don't know. But I just don't want -- I 15 mean, this is my tax money, too, and I -- I'd hate to see 16 it spent just because maybe somebody's got a buddy that's 17 looking for a job or something. I mean, I just don't want 18 that kind of thing to happen. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: If I didn't know you 20 better, I'd be offended by that, but I'm going to let that 21 pass. 22 MS. UECKER: Well, I didn't mean it like 23 that. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: As far as buying stuff at 25 OfficeMax, I bought my office supplies from a catalog for 157 1 seven years in private practice. Why? Because I could 2 have it overnight-delivered and get it about 20 percent 3 cheaper than I could get it from any of the supply stores 4 in Kerrville. So, don't tell me that it's a good idea to 5 keep a running list of supplies and run out to OfficeMax, 6 'cause you're not getting the best possible deal there. 7 MS. UECKER: And I'm doing the same thing 8 that you did, depending on the price I can get. I mean, I 9 deal personally on an individual basis. You know, I'm -- 10 I'm open. Maybe I just need some more information. I 11 just hate to see us get into something that maybe we wish 12 we hadn't. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, this is something we 14 all need to work out, but my request is don't focus on the 15 fact that you just ran out of yellow sticky pads. Think 16 of the fact that the County purchases between seven and 17 ten million dollars worth of goods and services a year. 18 And, if we can get a 12- to 15-percent reduction in that 19 total package, then we can not only pay for a Purchasing 20 Department, we can have some money left over to do some 21 other things with. 22 MS. UECKER: Okay. You know, in that case, 23 you know, I would support that. If -- but maybe you need 24 to educate us. I mean, we're the ones that are going to 25 be using these items, and we're the ones that are going to 158 1 have to change our way of thinking or our way of 2 purchasing or requesting whatever we need. So, you know, 3 I'd like, maybe, to get more involved with the setting up 4 of something like that. And, you know, I certainly didn't 5 mean to offend you; I didn't mean it like that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment -- I 7 think -- I mean, when it comes to office supplies, which 8 is the first thing everyone thinks of, you know, I think 9 most departments in the courthouse are using the -- the 10 national Office Depot plan, which is the same as the 11 purchasing seminars in Austin say we should, so I think 12 we're probably already doing the best we can do on office 13 supplies, for the most part. I think where it has a 14 benefit -- and this is the only reason I -- I mean, if it 15 won't do what I'm about to say, I'm probably not going to 16 be real in favor of it, either. But, we have a hodgepodge 17 of computers and other kind of technical-type equipment 18 that needs to be standardized as much as we can. You 19 can't standardize everything, of course, but it could be 20 standardized more than we have been. 21 I think we made a good step with the computers 22 by doing that. We have so much equipment and so many 23 things with warranties and -- and manuals, how to take 24 care of all this equipment. We have all these contracts 25 and service all this equipment. If one person could 159 1 consolidate that and look at this -- like Commissioner 2 Baldwin had a question this morning on the cost of the 3 service contract on the copier in here. You know, I 4 wouldn't be surprised if we're not getting -- if we're 5 getting somewhat of a bad deal on that, just because we 6 don't have the time or we don't have the expertise to look 7 at the details of all these things. And, this person, the 8 way I envision it, is going to look at -- you know, buying 9 the actual hard supplies is a very small part of this 10 function. It's more looking at the big picture for the 11 County, the big purchases that we make in Road and Bridge 12 and some other departments, and make sure that we're, you 13 know, doing everything properly, we're following the 14 guidelines -- I mean, from the warranty standpoint, the 15 specifications standpoint. 16 This year Commissioner Griffin did a great deal 17 of this work. That's not his responsibility; we just 18 happened to be lucky enough to have a Commissioner that 19 knows a lot about computers. Other than that, we've had 20 to rely on Tommy, and he doesn't have the time for it. 21 So, this Purchasing Agent needs to be able to do a lot of 22 these things that, right now, we're looking for anyone in 23 the County to do that has any expertise in this area, 24 asking them to do it. 25 MS. UECKER: Would that also include, like, 160 1 maintenance agreements? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, goods and 3 services. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I mean, you talked about 5 copiers. We saved right at 22 percent a month on the 6 copier we have in here, simply by asking two companies to 7 give us proposals and going back to them and saying, "You 8 can do better than that." 9 MS. UECKER: Which is exactly what I do, 10 too. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's 22 percent, you 12 know, on one purchase item. 13 MS. UECKER: Or if you tell them, "I have X 14 amount of dollars; either take it or I'll find somebody 15 else that will," that will -- usually they'll take it. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What we're talking 17 about, no one individual department or individual is going 18 to end up with all this extra time out there, but if you 19 take a little time here, a little there, you're talking 20 about a lot of manhours going into this function right 21 now, county-wide. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Particularly for the 23 pay. Look at what we spent on computers. If we'd have 24 had a Purchasing Agent to get past this Y2K thing, I mean, 25 it sure would have saved a lot of my time, that's for 161 1 sure. And -- and we need, for example, in vehicles and 2 computers and printers and whatever else, in office 3 machines, we need to have somebody tracking what is the 4 life of our -- of all of our assets and what is the 5 projected life and when is it going to have to be 6 replaced? And when do we want to upgrade to the next step 7 of technology? Do we want to keep this computer system 8 for five years and then go to pentium sevens, you know, 9 out here in 2005? Or do we want to -- do we want to have 10 a different strategy? We're going to lease machines, 11 'cause we can save money if we lease. And that person's 12 going to be working that a lot more than they are going to 13 be buying pencils, I can guarantee you. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's 15 true. I think a couple of thoughts come to mind about it. 16 If you want to poll counties that have purchasing 17 agents -- and if you're looking for horror stories, you 18 can find them; if you're looking for success stories, you 19 can find success stories. But, I think the important 20 thing is there's -- a good purchasing agent comes in and 21 doesn't try to take over, but he finds out what your needs 22 are and your specifications and drafts those things in 23 consultation with you so that you're not bothered with 24 those. So that when the forms come in, for example, they 25 are exactly what you wanted and the quantity you want and 162 1 so forth and so on. My concern is a lot like Larry's, 2 that we -- this is just another step in planning for the 3 future, in doing things for the future. But, the 4 budgetary process was a three-year role, and this takes 5 you out the same way. It's more than paper clips and 6 pencils. It's a great deal more. 7 MS. UECKER: Well, and I think the key is a 8 good Purchasing Agent. And, based on the fact that I 9 would like to have some more information, you know, I'm -- 10 I'm open at this point. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good. 12 MS. UECKER: But I would like to work with 13 you a little closer to see how this is going to be 14 structured. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll do it. 16 MS. UECKER: Okay. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Judge Brown? 18 JUDGE BROWN: I think y'all answered my 19 questions. I was just wondering how you were going to 20 save money, but I can see what you're talking about now. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: We envision -- 22 JUDGE BROWN: I'm -- I got here late so I 23 didn't get the full brunt. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: We envision the individual 25 having a fairly broad responsibility, as far as supplies 163 1 is concerned. For instance, I mean, Jannett, this person 2 would be responsible to a large extent -- you're 3 ultimately responsible, but they would have the initial 4 obligation to make sure that your ballot scanners are 5 ready. And if they need -- you know, he'd be the one who 6 would -- who would, you know, get with you and schedule a 7 test. And if the test is bad, get the people down here 8 from Alaska or Greenland or wherever the hell they come 9 from to get the -- get the machines up. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could be a she, 11 Judge. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Could be a she. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Most proficient one 14 I met is a very competent female. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we all know that 16 there's nobody that can purchase like a female. Barbara, 17 did you have anything to add? 18 MS. NEMEC: I haven't really researched it 19 to know any pros or cons. I'm kind of curious. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: We encourage y'all to -- 21 you know, to talk to your peers to, you know, find out -- 22 you know, talk to them about the budget impact, what it 23 has to do with the -- their own operations, and share that 24 with us, 'cause we don't want to upset anything. But, by 25 the same token, we know we're going to have to have some 164 1 individual who's going to look at things like this, who's 2 going to tell Linda -- who's going to know when Linda 3 buys a reader-printer, okay, this type of reader-printer 4 has a shelf life of seven years. So, in budget year 5 number six, we need to put money in the budget to replace 6 that reader-printer. Instead of Linda coming up at the 7 end of seven years and the thing is falling apart and 8 she's taking baling wire and chewing gum and holding it 9 together for another two years. 10 MS. UECKER: I have done that. Rubber 11 bands. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm sure you have. 13 That's -- that's where you're going to see the benefit 14 from this individual. Not necessarily in -- in buying 15 pencils for 8.3 instead of 8.6 cents, but in -- but in 16 helping you look ahead in your department and manage your 17 department so that it -- you don't have a lot of this 18 last-minute scrambling. 19 MS. UECKER: When that -- you know, that 20 stands. I'd like to see Kerr County with a very unique 21 purchasing agent or department, then, because this subject 22 has been coming up for, you know, many Commissioners 23 Courts, and, you know, it's never gotten any further. 24 And, since it has, you know, I have been asking questions. 25 I have been asking my peers, and obviously, in those 165 1 counties, the elected official or the department heads are 2 not -- they're not given the information that they need, 3 and as a result, they're unhappy with the Purchasing 4 Department because there's so much of it that they don't 5 know or they don't know how to go about it or they don't 6 have a good purchasing agent. So, I -- you know, if we're 7 going to do that, I'd like to see us with a very unique -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a legitimate 9 concern. And now's the time that we raise it. We 10 appreciate you bringing it, because we can do this so that 11 everybody benefits, and if we can't do it so everybody 12 benefits, then we don't want to do it. 13 MS. UECKER: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that comes back 15 to where we started, too, because the key, as -- you have 16 hit the nail right on the head, the key is a good 17 purchasing agent, somebody that really knows the business 18 and knows what a purchasing agent should do and can do, 19 and not somebody who's going to have to be O.J.T.'d into 20 the job. 21 MS. UECKER: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You know, where we 23 say, "Hey, all of a sudden, you're a purchasing agent. 24 Now we're going to teach you how to do it." That won't 25 work. We're going to have to find somebody that really 166 1 has that kind of expertise. 2 JUDGE BROWN: And maybe get someone that's 3 real good at working with people, a people person. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 5 JUDGE BROWN: To work with the departments. 6 Because I don't want to -- I visualize this bureaucracy 7 over here where the Purchasing Department's -- I've got to 8 fill out a dozen forms, give to it him or her, and she 9 approves it or doesn't approve it and all this. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not going to be 11 like K.I.S.D. 12 JUDGE BROWN: I mean, I don't want to have 13 to deal with another bureaucracy; you know what I mean. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I've been in too many 15 situations where the administrative tail end is wagging 16 the dog, and that's not going to happen. Glenn, did you 17 have anything you wanted to add? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. I'm looking forward to 19 it. 20 MS. UECKER: Well, I don't want to see us 21 get into a situation where filling out a form to -- to get 22 what we need is going to take longer than me going out and 23 finding it myself. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That -- 25 MS. UECKER: That's my main concern. 167 1 JUDGE BROWN: That's what I'm talking 2 about. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be counter- 4 productive. We will do everything we can to avoid that, 5 okay? 6 MS. UECKER: Okay, go for it. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a brother? 9 MS. UECKER: No. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You recommend a 11 buddy? 12 MS. UECKER: No, I don't want any relatives 13 or friends in that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just for the 15 record, neither do I. 16 MS. UECKER: Neither do you. Okay. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's go on. I 18 think we've beat this dead horse. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go to 2.21, consider 21 and discuss community internship program between Kerr 22 County and Schreiner College. I've been approached -- I 23 was actually approached last fall, and again this winter, 24 about having an intern from Schreiner College. And, I 25 think it's something that would benefit us all. My 168 1 concept is that the person would be here, he would receive 2 his assignment and be generically supervised by myself, 3 but he would be available, certainly, for projects for the 4 Commissioners, as well as for other departments, as -- as 5 time presented itself. Another set of, you know, legs and 6 eyes to go out and do research, to look up things, to 7 participate, and also it's a great learning experience for 8 whoever would be chosen to -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we pay for this? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, we don't. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's free? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: The person who has been 13 suggested is the vice president of the student body at 14 Schreiner College, a young man named Sean Wetzer. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it's a great 16 idea, and -- and perhaps -- I would hope we'd keep our 17 minds open in the future to perhaps doing more than one, 18 someday. You know, we could have one -- one department or 19 one -- 20 JUDGE BROWN: I've got three right now from 21 Schreiner College. 22 MS. PIEPER: I was going to say, I've had 23 two from Schreiner College; I've had several from colleges 24 from San Antonio that have came in, and it has worked out 25 very well for both of us. 169 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you 2 looking for, Judge? Approval of the concept or what? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, just a motion to 4 approve an internship between Commissioners Court and 5 Schreiner College. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll move that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 9 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we 10 approve a community internship between Commissioner Court 11 and Schreiner College and authorize the County Judge to 12 sign the necessary documents. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you ask 14 Mr. Wetzel if he has any purchasing -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Experience? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Background. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or a buddy. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll be happy to. Any 19 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your 20 right hand. 21 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next is 2.23, which is 25 consider and discuss proposals to provide professional 170 1 services in connection with redistricting based on the 2 2000 census. In your packets are actually three 3 proposals. There's one by Allison and Associates, which 4 was the subject of my January 7th memo. They are the -- 5 actually, the entity that did the 1990 redistricting. 6 Also, I have a proposal from Bickerstaff, Heath, Smiley, 7 Pollan, Kever and McDaniel, which is a fairly well-known 8 Austin law firm that specializes in county government. 9 Their proposal's a little different. Their proposal is an 10 hourly charge, as opposed to a fixed sum, as presented by 11 Allison and Associates. And the third proposal is from 12 the Law Offices of Rolando L. Rios and Joseph Monahan in 13 San Antonio. Their proposal is also a fixed price 14 proposal -- relatively fixed price. 15 It's my firm opinion that if we're going to do 16 this process right starting the end of this year, next 17 year, we have to do it right; we're going to need help. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm very familiar with both 20 the Allison law firm and the Bickerstaff law firm. 21 They're both very qualified, competent attorneys. And I 22 don't know if we want to make the decision on this today 23 or if we want to defer it and bring it back, but I think 24 at the next meeting, if we're going to hire somebody, it 25 seems pretty obvious to me that we need to make a decision 171 1 fairly quickly. One benefit the Allison proposal has is 2 that no payment's due until next budget year. But 3 Bickerstaff, they seem to think that they can provide 4 quality services for less than what the Allison proposal 5 might be. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would it be worthwhile 7 to have both -- or all three of them come in and kind of 8 go over how they plan to do it? I mean, this is -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- a pretty big -- it's 11 important and it's a big project. I don't know anything 12 about it other than what I've, you know, glanced through 13 in that proposal. Never have come anywhere close to 14 handling this type of thing before. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 16 I think I know probably less than you do about it. But 17 what I'm curious about, I think -- I think having them 18 come tell us the scope of services and what's included and 19 what is not included would be important, because I'm 20 looking at -- between the two of them, Bickerstaff and 21 Allison, I'm looking at a $20,000 disparity there, which 22 -- which causes me to believe that maybe everything is not 23 included in the Bickerstaff proposal, and where it may be 24 inclusive in the other guy's. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's our pleasure? Do we 172 1 want to schedule a -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Workshop. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- workshop one afternoon 4 and bring both in and give them each an hour to talk to 5 us? Do you want to do all three entities? Do you want to 6 do the two that we're familiar with? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we want to 8 do the ones not only that we're familiar with, but a fixed 9 price. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because I don't 12 think we know enough about buying an open-ended hourly 13 deal to know what we got. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On this topic. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it's -- I've been 16 in-house council at a workout bank, and if you're on top 17 of what your outside attorneys do, you can do it cheaper 18 by the hour, but it throws a lot of burden back on us -- 19 me. And I can do that. But it does give me some concern 20 about the quality of product, because, you know, there's 21 some -- some attorneys out there that are just licking 22 their chops at the prospect of what's going to happen 23 after redistricting in the nature of, you know, improper 24 districts, wrong mix in a particular district. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do I -- I mean, and I 173 1 know that -- well, one of the -- Rios, I did not know they 2 did this type of work. What I am familiar with, what they 3 do primarily is they look at minority representation in 4 areas, and handle the -- you know, getting minorities 5 represented properly. That's where their expertise is 6 more, I which I guess is pretty close to redistricting. I 7 mean, that's certainly a component of how we have to draw 8 our districts. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Big part of it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I mean. 11 So, they're on the fringe of that area. But, I wouldn't 12 have a problem with including or not including them; I 13 really don't have a preference one way or another, but I 14 think Allison and Bickerstaff are probably more, you know, 15 well-known for doing this. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Allison Bass, at 17 least. They're more well-known in Kerr County. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They -- they did our 20 County before and have worked with the County on many, 21 many issues like it. And, I agree with the fixed fee 22 issue. My god, you get into this lawyer stuff over here 23 where they're -- you know, $3 for toenail clippers, and I 24 don't remember -- 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is not the Pentagon, 174 1 Buster. This is legal services. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is -- this is 3 real close, I'm telling you. But, you know, who -- who 4 wants to sit around and monitor that? So I'd rather pay a 5 fixed fee and work out a deal with them and move forward 6 with a company that we're familiar with; that's familiar 7 with us, which is more important. But, I'll sit here for 8 a couple hours and listen to them. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone care to suggest 10 a date? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably need to 12 look at their schedule more than ours, huh? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we don't schedule it 14 today, then we won't schedule it until our next regularly 15 scheduled meeting, which is three weeks from now. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Authorize the County 17 Judge to set that date? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be out of town all 19 next week but, you know, for -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next Commissioner's 21 meeting? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that an 23 appropriate topic for discussion during our evening 24 meeting upcoming? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's not till the 28th. 175 1 I would like to have someone lined up before that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't want to put this 4 off and, all of a sudden, find out that our options are 5 forestalled because they've already filled up their plate, 6 254 counties. I'd like to schedule -- I would prefer to 7 schedule a workshop between now and our next meeting. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can't be here, I 9 don't think it's that critical. I mean, I'll, you know, 10 trust y'all to make the decision and recommendations as to 11 who, you know. The right questions are asked. If I can 12 be here, great. If I can't, I can't. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's look at sometime the 14 week of the 7th. Does anyone have any particular 15 preference about that week? 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We just need to go 18 ahead and schedule it. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just schedule it 20 whenever, from my standpoint. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I say we authorize 22 the County Judge to set the date for it, and -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, that will be 25 dependent somewhat, as said previously, on their 176 1 availability to come over here, too. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Well, it will 3 probably be -- it will be on either a Tuesday or a 4 Wednesday afternoon, because those are the days I don't 5 have other court. Unless we want to try for Friday. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See if they're 7 available. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Well, we'll check 9 with each three of the people who've submitted proposals 10 and see if they're available on one of the next two 11 Tuesday or Wednesdays. Once we do, then we'll put out an 12 agenda and we'll do it at -- want to do it at 2 o'clock? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's have a motion 15 to that effect. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we 20 schedule a workshop on professional services for 21 redistricting and authorize County Judge to determine when 22 would be the most appropriate time to have that workshop 23 and set it for that time. Any further discussion? If 24 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 177 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Last 4 agenda item is concerning one of Commissioner Williams' 5 favorite art pieces, the green generator located on the 6 west side of the courthouse. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is it still green, 8 Judge? I thought it was rusty. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We -- we discovered during 10 a power outage between Christmas and New Years that that 11 generator is not hooked up to anything. It was 12 apparently, from what I'm told, there to service the jail 13 when the jail was up in the annex, and by State law, they 14 had to have emergency power. According to what I've been 15 told by Keith Longnecker, it would cost between $25,000 16 and $50,000 to either move it and hook it up again, or to 17 replace it with, say, for instance, a battery system. 18 And, that's just for a standby; it doesn't come on 19 automatically; someone has to go down and fire it up. So, 20 if the power goes out, you're looking at 10, 15 minutes 21 before that is effective. 22 I met with Glenn Holekamp, our Maintenance 23 Supervisor, and Sheriff Hicks. Neither of them were of 24 the opinion that it's something we need. We talked about 25 holding cells up in the new courtroom, and they said that 178 1 what they needed there were emergency lights, which you 2 can go buy battery-powered emergency lights for $15 a 3 piece. As far as they were concerned, that would be 4 adequate. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the cells are 6 manually keyed. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, the cells are 8 manually keyed. As far as the Sheriff is concerned, 9 there's nothing that would, in his opinion, be a safety 10 concern about not having an immediate backup power source. 11 We need to move. Replacing the generator is not in the 12 construction budget, so we're looking at between $25,000 13 and $50,000 to keep it as part of the courthouse power 14 system. I don't know what it would cost to cut the cord 15 and haul it off, but I don't think it would cost near that 16 much. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any comments? Any 19 questions? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Why don't we see if 21 we can sell it, f.o.b, where it sits? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They come and get 24 it. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it's a little more 179 1 complicated to sell County property than to just go do 2 that. We'd have to declare it surplus and advertise it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What do you think 4 it would cost to remove it, Glenn, just take it out? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: $500. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's really just 7 disconnecting the gas line? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, that would be 9 disconnecting the gas line at the street and getting a 10 front-end loader over here to pick it up. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Barbara, Jannett, y'all 12 have anything? Questions? Concerns? I mean, it's not 13 doing anything for you now. If you want a system that's 14 going to kick in as soon as the power goes off, we're 15 talking about spending major dollars. Yes? 16 MS. NEMEC: I won't have a good view then. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: I just have a couple of 18 things that I was going to bring up since our meeting. 19 The electrical plan that the -- Mr. Walker and Ed Thompson 20 of Lux Engineering have done, I don't know how that's 21 played into the electrical scheme into the courthouse, the 22 generator, if it's figured in. I have a feeling it was. 23 Because Mr. Walker was sort of hesitant, when I asked why 24 do we need a generator. So, I think, before we pick it up 25 and haul it off, I think someone, whether it be the Judge 180 1 or someone from the Court, needs to sit down with 2 Mr. Longnecker and Mr. Walker and Mr. Thompson with Rolf 3 Engineering and say, "Why do we have to have it, or what 4 do we need to do from an absolute necessity?" which we're 5 talking about emergency lights and exits. That is really 6 the only requirement we would need, as far as electrical 7 backup is concerned. So, I would feel, before we just 8 pick it up and haul it off, I think Mr. Walker needs to 9 address why it was left in the plans to have a generator. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can certainly do that. 11 I mean, I talked to Mr. Longnecker just a few minutes ago, 12 before we came back, on a different topic. He mentioned 13 the generator. I said my recommendation is going to be 14 that we just move it, get rid of it. He said, "That's 15 what I think you ought to do." But -- I'd be happy to ask 16 him that question, but I have a hard time conceptualizing 17 a situation where it's not being used now and it's not 18 part of the courthouse electrical system now, but they 19 design an electrical system that makes it an integral part 20 of the renovation. I'm not saying that couldn't happen, 21 but my logical side says that's a stretch. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, logic is -- you're 23 right, but I think we need to take logic out of the 24 equation. 25 (Laughter.) 181 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we ought to 2 put on it agenda next meeting to declare it surplus and 3 run an ad in the paper and sell it. There's no use for 4 it, unless somebody else has a use for it, the Ag Barn or 5 something like that. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you have any use for it, 7 Glenn? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, sir. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree 11 with your suggestion. I was just wondering, are they 12 going to start work on that east ramp between now and next 13 time we meet? Is there a possibility they're going to 14 back it up or whatever, with the -- 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, we've got to have this 16 one done first. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think they finally got 18 the right size doors. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: If they got the right size 20 doors this time. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They do? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't know that yet. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. So there 24 is a possibility they may be working over there by the 25 time we meet again? Is that what you're saying? 182 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: At the rate they're going, I 2 doubt it, sir. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't y'all think about 5 an order directing that it be removed and disposed of as 6 surplus property unless -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Unless it is somehow 8 tied-in to the renovation design. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- it's an integral part of 10 the renovation design, at which time we'll come back. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we 14 disconnect and remove the generator, make it available for 15 disposal in accordance with the required procedures, 16 unless our construction consultant informs us that it's an 17 absolutely essential part of the renovation electrical 18 reconfiguration. Okay? Any further questions? All in 19 favor, raise your right hand. 20 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Unless 24 there's any other business to come before us, we stand 25 adjourned. Good meeting, guys. No, wait, time out. I 183 1 forgot something. I moved forward at the beginning; it's 2 my fault. We didn't do the monthly reports. Do I have a 3 motion to approve and accept the monthly reports as 4 presented? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 8 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve and 9 accept the monthly reports as presented. Any further 10 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 11 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Now we're 15 adjourned. 16 (Court was adjourned at 2:23 p.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 19 20 21 22 STATE OF TEXAS | 23 COUNTY OF KERR | 24 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 25 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity 184 1 as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 2 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 3 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 31st day of January, 4 2000. 5 6 7 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 8 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 9 Certified Shorthand Reporter 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25