1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, March 27, 2000 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X 2 March 27, 2000 PAGE 3 --- Commissioners' Comments 4 4 1.1 Pay Bills 7 1.2 Budget Amendments 10 5 1.3 Late Bills 17 1.4 Read and Accept Monthly Reports 18 6 2.1 Kerr County Audit - informational report 19 7 2.2 Presentation by Grantworks of Austin 23 2.3 Additional funding to Collections Dept. 41 8 2.4 Final plat, Twin Springs Ranch Subdivision 49 2.5 Road & Bridge recommendations for annual bids 54 9 2.6 Appoint Joel Ayala Constable, Precinct 2 58 2.7 Accept resignation of Sheriff Hicks 60 10 2.8 Appoint Rusty Hierholzer Interim Sheriff 63 2.9 Public Hearing - Establish Lake Ingram Estates 11 Road District 87 2.10 Establish Lake Ingram Estates Road District 90 12 2.11 Accept petition & set public hearing, Lake Ingram Estates tax bond 91 13 2.12 Abandonment of Pecan Drive, Cypress Park 102 2.13 Set public hearing, abandonment of Pecan Dr. 104 14 2.26 Proposed addition to Community Recycling Center 105 2.14 Discuss professional space planner for Annex 113 15 2.15 Update on HCYEC Master Plan Committee/Quorum 120 2.16 Expenditure of funds for county property survey 121 16 2.17 Acquisition of 45 used horse stalls 121 2.24 Appoint Chuck Brecher-AACOG Solid Waste 129 17 2.18 Designate road known as E-1145 to E. Oso Way 138 2.20 Implement new burn ban system, current status 141 18 2.28 Status of Courthouse Annex construction 163 19 2.19 Remove colonia designation from Center Point 186 20 2.21 Status of internet/phone access for County 188 2.27 Select consultant for job classification study 200 21 2.25 Set Purchasing Department workshop date 208 2.23 Appoint representatives to AACOG Sr. Advis. Com. 211 22 2.7 & Accept Sheriff Hicks' resignation 213 2.8 Appoint Rusty Hierhozler Interim Sheriff 213 23 --- Meeting adjourned 217 24 25 3 1 On Monday, March 27, 2000, at 9:00 o'clock a.m., a 2 Special Session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was 3 held in the Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning, everyone. It's 8 9 o'clock on the morning of March 27th, Year 2000, and we 9 will call to order this special regular meeting of the Kerr 10 County Commissioners Court. Commissioner Baldwin, I believe 11 you have the honors this morning. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, sir. We have a 13 special guest that I've asked -- invited to come here to 14 pray for the Commissioners Court. And, when he finishes, 15 I'd appreciate if you'd join me in the pledge of allegiance. 16 Our guest today is the Superintendent of the Kerrville 17 Schreiner State Park, Mr. Tim Hufstedler. Tim, if you'd 18 come and pray for us, please? 19 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, 21 Mr. Hufstedler. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Commissioner. At 23 this time, if there's any citizen who wishes to address the 24 Court on an item which is not listed on the regular agenda, 25 you may come forward and do so. Is there anyone in the 4 1 courtroom who would like to address the Court on an item 2 which is not on the regular agenda? Seeing none, we'll move 3 to the Commissioners' Comments. Let's start this morning -- 4 JUDGE BROWN: Judge, do you want to us shut 5 down that -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 7 JUDGE BROWN: No problem? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, that's music to our ears. 9 We'll start with Commissioner Griffin this morning. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No comments, Judge. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have several. First, I 13 had the opportunity last Friday evening to attend the awards 14 presentation for the San Antonio Conservation Society, and I 15 think it was, to my knowledge, the first time one of the 16 recipients was from Kerr County. Happens to be in 17 Commissioner Williams' precinct; I'm not sure if he's aware 18 of that or not. It was the Walls Building in Center Point 19 being restored by Ed and Josephine Story. They received the 20 out-of-town award, which is quite an honor. It's quite a 21 to-do. I think it was a -- you know, shows a great 22 accomplishment by the Storys for what they've done, and also 23 a good recognition for Kerr County. We had quite a bit of 24 talk about us, good presentation. 25 The other item I have is just to announce 5 1 Plateau Regional Planning Meeting for this Thursday, the 2 30th. There are going to be three presentations that will 3 be of interest to, I think, everyone possibly on the Court 4 and to the public. At 10 o'clock, our committee is going to 5 have their review by the Water Development Board; it will be 6 the Trinity Aquifer study that a lot of people have heard 7 about. The person -- or the lead geologist on that, Robert 8 Mace, will make the presentation. It will be quite 9 interesting. And, then at 1 o'clock, during our regular 10 meeting, we're going to have a presentation from Cindy 11 Loefler from Parks and Wildlife, and we're also going to 12 have a presentation on brush management by -- the name 13 escapes me at the moment, but a representative of the 14 U.S.D.A., and also one of the people that worked on the 15 Second Creek project. So, those are going to be the 16 presentations. That's it. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Commissioner 18 Williams? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to take 20 this opportunity to congratulate Commissioner Baldwin and 21 Commissioner Letz on their return to the Commissioners Court 22 bench. I look forward to having the opportunity to work 23 with them. To all the elected -- all those who were elected 24 officially, particularly in the Sheriff's Department, 25 Mr. Hierholzer and Constable Ayala, I offer my 6 1 congratulations, and look forward to the opportunity to work 2 with you. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No comments, sir. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. I, too, would 6 like to offer my congratulations to those who offered 7 themselves for election and were successful, and also my 8 deepest appreciation to those that were willing to offer -- 9 who offered themselves for election and were not chosen. 10 It's not an easy thing to stand before your friends and 11 neighbors and offer yourself for service to the community, 12 and we appreciate those who -- who take the time to show an 13 interest in their community that way. 14 The other thing I will say, very quickly, is 15 I would like everyone to please cooperate with the census 16 exercise which is under way. By now, everyone should have 17 received their census form, either the short form or the 18 long form. I guess I was fortunate in that I got the short 19 form and returned it, and didn't have to suffer through the 20 long form. For those of you who get the long form, I 21 certainly hope you will take the time to fill it out and 22 return it. It is vital to the future of our community that 23 we have as accurate a count as we can. I'm sure 24 Commissioner Letz would second me on that, in that one of 25 the major issues we face in the water planning exercise 7 1 that's underway is what is the population of our community 2 and what is the population going to be? The people in 3 Austin have consistently tried to undercount Kerr County for 4 purposes of the water planning, as well as other reasons. 5 We need everyone to stand up and be counted so that when it 6 comes time to decide whether Kerr County has water which is 7 available for use somewhere else; i.e., San Antonio, or 8 whether we need the water here for ourselves, we can prove 9 empirically that we do indeed need the water here. So, if 10 any of you have received your census materials and have not 11 returned them, or know of any friends or neighbors or 12 relatives, coworkers who have not returned their census 13 materials, please encourage them to cooperate in this 14 effort. It's vital to the future of Kerr County. 15 Having said that, we'll move directly into 16 the approval agenda. Mr. Auditor, do we have some bills to 17 pay? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, we do. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 20 questions about the bills? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. I do. Page 4, 22 Courthouse and Related Buildings. Three-quarters of the way 23 down, H2O Specialists, sewer gas and repair broken line in 24 the attic. And, I -- it's probably a question for Glenn. I 25 think this is the -- did our -- did our construction people 8 1 break the line? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that answers the 4 question. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. What happened is -- 6 is back last spring, when they demo'd inside the ceiling 7 of the County Clerk's office and the Tax Office, they -- 8 they took out all the pipes that were -- were applicable 9 to the construction. They left the other pipes in there, 10 and -- and, as everybody knows, we had a smell on occasion 11 in the courthouse, and we finally detected the pipe that 12 was -- it was loose at a connection, and that's where we 13 just detected that approximating, and we had that repaired. 14 But, it had nothing to do with the construction, itself, 15 other than the -- the demolition early on in the project. 16 It was something that wasn't detected at that time. And 17 that was the County's responsibility, I believe, at that 18 time, to take those pipes out. That was not part of the 19 contractor's -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- deal. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a question. On 24 Page 5, Tommy, I note with interest several expenses for one 25 particular -- medical expenses for one particular prisoner. 9 1 My question, I guess, is, is this a local prisoner, the 2 expenses for which we are responsible? Or is this an 3 out-of-county prisoner that expenses could be charged 4 against -- back, or what? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I can't answer it. If 6 it is out-of-county, you will get reimbursed for it. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's ask our County Sheriff. 8 Do you know whether those are out-of-county, or if -- 9 SHERIFF HICKS: That's a local prisoner. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Pardon? 11 SHERIFF HICKS: That's a local prisoner. He 12 was in a fight in the jail and got hurt real bad. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move we pay the 15 bills. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have a couple questions. 17 Anyone else? Jonathan? Larry? Page 1, Tommy, under 18 Nondepartmental, $246.43 to Altex Electronics, and the next 19 one, $95.98 for supplies. I'm just curious as to what 20 Nondepartmental is buying. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the $246 is for 22 computer cable. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: And it goes so many different 25 places that, for the -- for the amount, it's just not worth 10 1 it to cost that out to different departments. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Tommy, with the noise, 4 could you speak a little more into the mic? I know people 5 are going to have trouble hearing over the jackhammer. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not noise; 7 that's music. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, it is music. 9 But -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: If you think it's bad here, 11 you should be in my office. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. That's all I have, 13 then. We had a motion to pay the bills. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 16 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 17 the bills as presented and recommended by the Auditor. Any 18 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right 19 hand. 20 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 24 amendments. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is from the 11 1 Sheriff's Department. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a request from Sheriff 4 Hicks. It's to transfer $1,000 from Employee Medical to 5 Computer Supplies. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 11 Budget Amendment Number 1 for the Sheriff's Department. Any 12 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right 13 hand. 14 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 2, 18 regarding County Court at Law. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a bill from our 20 County Court at Law, approved by Judge Brown, and it's -- 21 the bill actually is for -- for $412.50. And, he's 22 requesting transfer from Court-Appointed Attorneys to that 23 line item, Medical Assistance. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: What is this Medical 25 Assistance for? 12 1 MR. TOMLINSON: It's -- it's two hours for 2 driving time for forensic -- I guess it's for a witness for 3 forensic -- it says "forensic activity, 45 minutes in court, 4 2 hours driving." 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that -- is that the proper 6 line item for that expense? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Judge Brown's in Court. 8 Maybe he can explain it further. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't have any problem with 10 the expense. I'm just wondering about the County -- 11 Barbara? 12 MS. HOLMES: It's a case that Judge Dubose 13 heard; it's an A.G. case, Attorney General case, and I 14 believe this is a clinical psychologist, maybe, that has 15 come to testify. And, it wasn't in our court; we didn't 16 have it here. When we received the bill, I went through 17 Tommy to see what we needed to do to get it. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whose court was it in? 19 MS. HOLMES: Judge Camile Dubose. She 20 handles all of the Attorney General cases -- T.D.P.R.S., the 21 Texas Department of Protective Services. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm just curious as to why 23 y'all got the bill if it didn't come through your court. 24 JUDGE BROWN: Tommy said it was our 25 responsibility. 13 1 MS. HOLMES: It's a C; it's our case. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a case that you referred 3 to Judge Dubose? 4 AUDIENCE: Judge Dubose hears all the T.D.P.R.S. 5 cases, whether that's the A, B, or C court. 6 MS. HOLMES: So, whichever court the case was 7 originally filed in, that's the court that's responsible for 8 the expense. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I understand. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then my question 11 is, is the 401, is that Medical Assistance across-the-board? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not sure that that's 13 across-the-board. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, I guess that -- 15 that would be the only reason -- I can't imagine Spencer 16 having a Medical Assistance line item. 17 JUDGE BROWN: It was to pay this expert to 18 come up here. They sent an expert up here to testify in the 19 case. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 21 JUDGE BROWN: I don't know what he testified 22 to. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 24 I'm just kind of looking at the budget as a whole. Do we 25 have a Medical Assistance in the Commissioners Court, 401? 14 1 JUDGE BROWN: No -- I don't know. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't -- I can't 3 imagine you having one. 4 MS. HOLMES: No. No, we don't. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think we -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we creating a new 7 line item here? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we approve the 9 budget amendment and ask Tommy to make sure that that's 10 being charged against the proper line item? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 14 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 15 Budget Amendment Request Number 2 in favor of County Court 16 at Law, with a request that the Auditor insure that that is 17 charged against the proper line item. Any further -- any 18 further questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right 19 hand. 20 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carried. Budget 24 Amendment Number 3 relates to the 216th District Court. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. We have a bill from -- 15 1 from Bandera County from the District Clerk for the change 2 of venue murder trial that -- that took place in Bandera. 3 The request is to transfer $5,570.02 out of Court-Appointed 4 Attorneys, $300 out of Medical Assistance, and $5,870.02 5 into Special Trials. That answers your question, 6 Commissioner. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it does. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any -- any questions or 9 comments? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 14 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 in favor of the 216th 15 District Court. Any further questions or comments? If not, 16 all in favor, raise your right hand. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm sorry, we have a comment 19 over here, even though he's raised his hand to vote. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In our last meeting, we 21 talked about the deputy charges that were charged on -- or 22 Bandera charged us for that trial. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: That's still in question. 24 We -- I took that bill back to Bandera, and I visited with 25 Sheriff Hicks about -- about the bill, and he has visited 16 1 with -- at this point, with the Sheriff in Bandera. I think 2 we're -- we're close to coming to a fair agreement on -- on 3 those costs. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, great. Thank you. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Now, all in favor of 6 approving the Budget Amendment Request Number 3, raise your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4 12 relates to the Sheriff's Department. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 4 is a -- is a 14 -- is my action, my request to transfer $105.70 from Group 15 Insurance into Contract Fees in the Sheriff's Office. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 20 Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any further questions or 21 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 22 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we have 17 1 any late bills, Tommy? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, I do. One is to Mandy 3 Kirkpatrick. It's for $180, and it's for the purpose of 4 temporary J.P. clerk in J.P. 1's office. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the 6 bill. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Baldwin, seconded by -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I need a hand check. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- Commissioner Griffin, that 13 we approve the pay in favor of Mandy, and authorize the 14 Auditor to issue a hand check for same. Any further 15 questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 16 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: The rest of these I need hand 21 checks for, and they're -- they're for the people that 22 worked in early voting. It's been approved by the County 23 Clerk. One is to Donald Opperman for $498; one for Dawn 24 Goldthorn for $102; Carolyn Macaskie, $516; George Ann 25 Smith, $561; Nell Herriman for $546; Helen Herget for $564; 18 1 Joseph Armistead for $516, and Margaret Higgins for $54. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All early voting? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz 7 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we pay the late bills 8 and issue hand checks to the individuals listed for purposes 9 of their service as early voting judges. Any further 10 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 11 right hand. 12 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 Motion carries. Next item on the agenda is to approve and 15 accept the monthly reports. Do I have a motion to approve 16 and accept the monthly reports? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 20 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 21 and accept the monthly reports. Any further discussion? If 22 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 23 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 19 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll now turn to the 4 consideration agenda. The first item on the agenda is a 5 report concerning the 1998-1999 Kerr County Audit performed 6 by Pressler Thompson and Company. Tommy? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: We have -- we have in the 8 courtroom Doug Sundberg from the firm to highlight the -- 9 their audit findings and report. This is a -- an 87-page 10 document, so it would be almost -- it would be impossible, 11 with the time limitations, to -- to review, you know, 12 each -- each and every page. So, he -- he stands ready to 13 answer any questions that you might have during his -- his 14 presentation. Doug? 15 MR. SUNDBERG: I have no intentions of going 16 through 87 pages. Basically, I just want to start on Page 17 2, which is our Auditor's report, which basically is an 18 unqualified opinion, or as we refer to it, as a clean 19 opinion. In the third paragraph, it states that, "In our 20 opinion, the general purpose financial statements referred 21 to above present fairly, in all material respects, the 22 financial position of Kerr County, Texas as of September 30, 23 and the results of its operations and the cash flows of its 24 proprietary fund types and nonexpendable trust funds for the 25 year then ended." So, it's an unqualified opinion. 20 1 On Page 4 -- just a few pages I want to touch 2 a few items on, then I'll answer whatever questions you 3 might have. On Page 4, being the combined balance sheet of 4 all the governmental fund types, proprietary funds, and 5 account groups that you have, the General Fund, the first 6 column, shows that you have total assets of $3,686,000 7 total, and liabilities of $877,000, giving you a fund 8 balance of the General Operating Fund of $2,809,000, which 9 relates in comparison to the current year expenditures to 10 approximately five months' reserve that you have at this 11 present time. 12 The columns for Special Revenue, Debt 13 Service, and the Agency Funds over on the next page, the 14 detail of all those funds are -- are shown on Pages 36 15 through 81 in the back, listing all the fund transactions, 16 et cetera. The Enterprise Fund, the first column on Page 5, 17 is the Juvenile Detention Facility out there. Pages 6 and 7 18 is your Statement of Revenues, Expenditures, and Changes in 19 Fund Balance for all the governmental fund types. What I'd 20 really like to touch base on is starting on Page 8, which is 21 the same information, except that it relates to your budget 22 that you had for the year ending September 30, '99. You had 23 total revenues budgeted of $7,750,000. You actually took in 24 $7,917,000, so you took in $166,000 more than you had 25 budgeted for. On total expenditures, you had budgeted 21 1 $7,341,000, actually expended $6,800,000, so you were 2 underbudget on expenditures by approximately $541,000, 3 giving you excess revenues over expenditures of $708,000 4 more than you had budgeted for. 5 Following that back to Page 12, finishing on 6 the General Fund, it shows that you had excess revenues over 7 expenditures for the year, in the middle column, of 8 $1,113,000, beginning fund balance of $1,636,000, and 9 bringing you up to $2,809,000 as of the end of the fiscal 10 year. That Prior Year Adjustment of $60,000 is explained to 11 you in the notes; Note J, I believe it is, back on Page 31. 12 The next question -- the next page is on Page 13 16, which is the Statement of Revenues, Expenses and Changes 14 in Retained Earnings for the operation of the Juvenile 15 Detention Facility, showing you at $1,851,000 revenue, 16 operating expenses of $1,280,000, for the operating net 17 revenue of $571,000. Then, the net of interest income and 18 interest expense paid on the mortgage at a net profit for 19 the year of approximately $390,000, bringing your fund 20 balance to $424,000 as of September 30, '99. 21 Just, quickly, a couple other things I'd like 22 to point out to you, starting on -- back on Page 27, which 23 is part of the notes -- actually, on Page 26, the bottom of 24 Page 26. The additions and deletions and so forth out of 25 the fixed assets, general fixed assets of the County, and on 22 1 the top of Page 8 -- or 27, I'm sorry, the activity for the 2 Juvenile Detention Center. Fixed assets and added additions 3 and deletions. The rest of Page 27 and at the top of Page 4 28 is the detail on the general long-term debt, showing the 5 bonds and notes that are outstanding as of the end of the 6 fiscal year, and your maturity or your debt service 7 requirements over the next five years and thereafter for 8 both the County and the Juvenile Detention Center. 9 You also, then, have the management letter 10 that we presented to you for a couple of the comments that 11 we had, which all have been discussed with Tommy at this 12 time. And, I realize you have a lot going on today, so I 13 won't go over anything else, unless you have some questions 14 that I can try and answer. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would like for you 16 to -- a brief explanation on the -- on the last comment. 17 MR. SUNDBERG: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't understand -- 19 I still don't understand. 20 MR. SUNDBERG: Okay. What had happened there 21 was that you had -- the Commissioners had amended the budget 22 to account for the expenditure of some purchase of some 23 items; computers, I believe it was. The actual liability 24 invoiced, sent out by a third-party, was not -- did not get 25 accomplished until November. So, consequently, as of the 23 1 end of September, that liability did not really exist, and 2 therefore we could not include that as part of your 3 liabilities and expenditures for the fiscal year. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I do understand 5 it. Thank you. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? Other 7 comments? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very well done, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, very well done. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy, do we need to take any 12 official action on this? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I don't think so. This 14 is just for information purposes. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. We appreciate 16 your help. 17 MR. SUNDBERG: Yes, sir. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 2, 19 consider and discuss presentation by Grantworks of Austin on 20 community development and housing programs that can provide 21 Kerr County with assistance for water, sewer, drainage, and 22 streets in unincorporated areas of the county. 23 Commissioner Williams. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 25 And, first of all is Mr. Hartzell in the audience? Thank 24 1 you; we'll get to you in a second. Thank you very much. 2 And, on February 16th, Judge Henneke received a letter from 3 Mr. Hartzell of Grantworks of Austin stating, among other 4 things, that Kerr County is eligible to receive planning, 5 coordination, and mapping assistance for water, sewer, 6 drainage, and streets in our unincorporated areas at no cost 7 to the County through the Colonia Comprehensive Planning 8 Fund. He talks about Grantworks -- in this letter, he talks 9 about Grantworks currently working on plans for Atascosa, 10 Bandera, Medina, and Brewster Counties, which were funded in 11 1998 and 1999. Mr. Hartzell had asked for an opportunity to 12 come to Commissioners Court to tell us a little bit more 13 about Grantworks, what it does, and where these monies might 14 come from through the planning, housing, and community 15 development services, and how Kerr County might be eligible 16 to receive same. With that, I would like to present to 17 Commissioners Court Mr. Eric Hartzell, who's the vice 18 president and chief planner for Grantworks of Austin, Texas. 19 Mr. Hartzell? 20 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you. Thanks for the 21 opportunity to be here today. We have a few things to hand 22 out, if I can do that real quick, so you guys have something 23 to look at as I'm speaking here. I have with me Robin 24 Sisco, also of our office. She's a planner with Grantworks, 25 as well. What I'm handing out here are some copies of some 25 1 information about the plan, itself, from the State's program 2 literature, and as well as -- as well as our company 3 information guide here. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 5 MR. HARTZELL: You're welcome. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 7 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you. As Commissioner 8 Williams mentioned, this is a grant program that comes from 9 the Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs. Its 10 eligible applicants are counties within 150 miles of the 11 U. S. -- I'm sorry the Texas-Mexico border. In the past, 12 most of the counties that have pursued this have been right 13 along the border, itself, but in recent years more counties, 14 around San Antonio particularly, have been applying because 15 of the growing number of unincorporated communities, 16 especially lower income communities that are popping up 17 in -- in rural areas. 18 The grants are -- it's 100 percent -- 100 19 percent grant program that -- that's made -- applications 20 are made once a year, every year. Lately, the applications 21 have been running about three or four counties each year 22 coming in for the funds. There's a good chance that the 23 County would -- would have a shot at getting some funds this 24 year. The -- sorry, lost my train of thought here. The 25 planning grants range anywhere from about $50,000 to 26 1 $200,000, depending on the size of the county. There's no 2 matching requirement. A lot of times in these grant 3 programs there are matching funds, but in this particular 4 case, there are no matching funds from the County. The 5 reason that counties are the choice vehicle for this type of 6 planning is that only counties and cities are eligible for 7 community development funds from the -- from the State. 8 Counties serve as a good coordinating body, 9 although I know you aren't responsible, obviously, for water 10 and sewer directly, since that is kind of the -- in the 11 rural areas, there's no one group that does manage those 12 things. I believe in Kerr County you have a fairly enormous 13 number of water supplies and districts and small rural 14 utility systems that probably -- I'm not sure how much 15 coordination there really is among those. I think the real 16 strength of this particular grant is that it does go out and 17 look on a county-wide basis at all of water and sewer 18 providers, looking at their areas that they serve, the types 19 of services they offer, what areas are underserved, those 20 kind of things, and it puts it all into one place. In fact, 21 later today we have a meeting with the Atascosa County 22 Commissioners in Jourdanton to start some work on 23 coordinating and looking at what areas are served and what 24 areas aren't in their unincorporated parts of their county. 25 The sheet that has a -- midway through, it 27 1 says "Colonia Comprehensive Plan," that gives us some basic 2 information about what's included. The plan would fund a 3 study to map all of the unincorporated communities in the 4 county. That would be any concentration of housing, any 5 subdivisions in the county that are unincorporated, that are 6 considered to be lower- to moderate-income. I believe in 7 Kerr County, that's a family of four earning around $32,000 8 or less, on average. So, it wouldn't, obviously, map your 9 wealthier subdivisions that may be on it there, but it would 10 maybe -- I think Center Point, I believe, qualifies. Hunt, 11 you probably have some subdivisions, too, that maybe have 12 mobile homes. Those kind of things would all qualify. 13 That's mapping as far as housing, land use, 14 existing water and sewer systems, drainage, and street 15 conditions are all looked at. Then, once that information 16 is collected, we'll have several workshops with 17 Commissioners and with other -- with water districts, other 18 groups that might have a stake in providing infrastructure 19 to the these unincorporated areas. That's all looked at as 20 far as needs. Needs are ranked and prioritized for possible 21 sources of funding, whether it be from other grant programs, 22 Water Development Board, Rural Development, you name it. 23 There's quite a few different sources of loans and/or grants 24 that could possibly extend water, sewer, streets -- 25 obviously, there's not a lot of grant money for that. You 28 1 know that, probably, from being Commissioners. Drainage, 2 either. But, there are some other programs out there, from 3 flood mitigation and those kind of things, and it pulls it 4 all into one document so that the County has a good feel for 5 what's out there right now in your unincorporated areas as 6 far as infrastructure, what the needs are, and maybe of a 7 way of spearheading some attempts to correct some of the 8 worst problems that you might have out there in your 9 unincorporated areas. 10 The steps that the County would need to 11 follow to apply for this assistance would be in holding a 12 public hearing; we would help you do that. And then pass a 13 resolution at your next court to apply for the funds. Other 14 than that, there's no -- the only financial commitment the 15 County has, to either the State or to our firm, would be 16 paying for the notice of your public hearing, which is in 17 the local paper. Otherwise, we don't charge a fee for 18 applications. We also would be paid out of the grant funds 19 if the fund is -- if the grant is funded to provide the 20 studies. And, as we mentioned, Bandera County, Medina 21 County, and Atascosa County are all in this area that are 22 working on these right now and moving forward with that. 23 So, it's kind of a -- it's a good deal for counties. It's a 24 free way of getting some coordinating assistance, and we'd 25 be happy to work with you on doing that. Are there any 29 1 questions? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the time frame 4 for filing the application in the current funding cycle? 5 MR. HARTZELL: April 28th is the deadline, so 6 we'd be looking at your next Court meeting, we'd want to 7 have the resolution passed. We can get it in by -- by then. 8 We probably would have word on the grant award by, I would 9 guess, July of this year. The contract probably wouldn't be 10 actually written and executed until the fall if it were 11 awarded. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your opinion, 13 based on what you know, even though it may be superficial, 14 about Kerr County and our unincorporated areas and these 15 particular needs, would you venture to guess what type or 16 what size grant we might be eligible to receive for this 17 purpose? 18 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. I believe, based on the 19 number -- the population of your unincorporated areas and 20 the number of districts that are involved, we'd probably be 21 looking at around $75,000. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a letter here, 23 Judge, just faxed to me this morning from the Upper 24 Guadalupe River Authority; that's from Mr. Brown: 25 Commissioner Williams, I just read with interest the posted 30 1 agenda for today's meeting, with particular interest in this 2 particular agenda item. U.G.R.A. supports the County's 3 effort to map the unincorporated areas of the county. 4 U.G.R.A. more specifically supports the interest in 5 identifying available utilities and/or need for utilities in 6 the same area. As we develop our plan -- that would be the 7 U.G.R.A. plan -- to serve water to the unincorporated areas, 8 a great deal of our consultant's time and expense was 9 mapping those areas that U.G.R.A. would serve in Phase I and 10 Phase II of a regional utility project. We discovered that 11 the Kerr County Central Appraisal District has developed a 12 good base map system, but lacks information that relates to 13 utility services. The County's effort will facilitate a 14 much better organized growth as it will eventually occur in 15 the unincorporated areas. This same map system could 16 greatly assist the transportation planning for County 17 roadway system and easements that will be eventually 18 required to better serve the rural areas. U.G.R.A. will 19 make all information available to your consultants, 20 therefore reducing the time and cost of the project. Jim 21 Brown. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a question. 23 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Since the pot of money 25 that this is coming from is the Colonia Comprehensive 31 1 Planning Fund -- 2 MR. HARTZELL: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- does the County 4 have to -- does the County, to qualify for this, have to 5 have a colonia? 6 MR. HARTZELL: The definition -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One or more? 8 MR. HARTZELL: The definition that the State 9 uses for "colonia" is any unincorporated community within 10 150 miles of the border, this particular -- for this 11 particular program. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Doesn't have to have 13 colonia status? 14 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are the -- I mean, 17 you mentioned the Hunt area and Center Point area, maybe 18 some mobile homes. What are the criteria as to what areas 19 you're going to map? I mean -- 20 MR. HARTZELL: Generally, it would be any 21 area that is ten or more homes within a quarter of a mile of 22 each other. We don't want to go out and map -- we're not 23 going to map the ranch land and along county roads that -- 24 where there might be a house every, you know, quarter mile 25 or farther apart, because you're unlikely to -- to be 32 1 worried too much about low income, A; and B, sewer probably 2 isn't going to be a concern, 'cause you're -- you need the 3 density. So, it is definitely focused toward somewhat of a 4 concentrated population area. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that criteria set in 6 the plan, or is that something that the county -- 7 MR. HARTZELL: We would look at all the 8 unincorporated area, but yes, it's set in the plan. It 9 needs to be something that has an identifiable concentration 10 of housing. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question -- I have two 12 questions. One, is this federal money that comes -- passes 13 through there? 14 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Block grant type? 16 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number two, did this 18 come through AACOG? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, it did not. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Straight from these 21 folks? 22 MR. HARTZELL: Yeah. AACOG is a coordinating 23 body for the regional review committees. I don't know if 24 y'all are -- y'all have done, I believe, a community 25 development program grant in the past. AACOG serves as an 33 1 advisory role in that. They don't actually perform these 2 studies or make these applications. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They don't make these 4 applications? 5 MR. HARTZELL: No. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is a planning grant, 7 correct? 8 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: And it's to be used for 10 mapping the unincorporated areas of the county that fall 11 within the broad definition of a colonia? 12 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: For purposes of identifying 14 substandard housing, water, sewer -- 15 MR. HARTZELL: Drainage, streets. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- drainage, whatever. Okay. 17 What is the public hearing that's required? What is the 18 purpose of that? 19 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. In order to apply for 20 these federal funds, since they are passed through from the 21 federal government through the State, there's citizen 22 participation requirements attached to them, which means 23 that the public needs to have an opportunity to make comment 24 on whether they want the plan or not before the 25 Commissioners Court actually considers to apply. Generally, 34 1 public hearings are thinly attended. I've never been to one 2 -- well, I've -- okay, I've been to one that had people show 3 up. It's generally not -- it's a -- for lack of a better 4 term, a "hoop," unfortunately. I think the idea is that 5 usually a lot of these same pots of funds are used for 6 actual water and sewer projects and in our sub-programs, and 7 there can be some contention over that when you're talking 8 about, you know, tearing up somebody's streets or whatever. 9 So, people may show up to a meeting. Generally, with the 10 planning study, you're not going to run into that kind of 11 situation, but it does have -- provide the opportunity for 12 the public to comment. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the public hearing is on 14 whether or not to apply for -- 15 MR. HARTZELL: Correct. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- the grant. There's no 17 plan that's presented for the public to comment on. 18 MR. HARTZELL: No. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mentioned that -- a 20 ballpark of $75,000 -- 21 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for this. And you get 23 paid out of that. What percentage of that do y'all take? 24 MR. HARTZELL: It goes -- all of it goes to 25 the consultant. 35 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They do the study. 2 MR. HARTZELL: Yeah, the mapping and the -- 3 yeah, we would do the mapping. The biggest cost, of course, 4 is your mapping. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you do that work? 6 MR. HARTZELL: We do all that work. The 7 County would -- in fact, another point I guess it's 8 important to make, no payment is made on any of these 9 planning studies until the very end, until it's approved by 10 both the Commissioners Court and the State. There's no draw 11 downs or payments made as it progresses. You pay -- we get 12 paid at the very, very end of the process. So, that's a -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Grant funds come to 14 us; we, in turn, pay you, but not until the State has 15 approved the grant. 16 MR. HARTZELL: That's exactly right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until it's in place. 18 And, you do all the work and the planning -- 19 MR. HARTZELL: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- for the 21 application. And, if the grant is denied -- 22 MR. HARTZELL: We don't get any money. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- you're not funded. 24 MR. HARTZELL: That's right, you don't owe us 25 anything. 36 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: At the end of the -- what do 3 we get at the end of the product? Do we get a computer disk 4 that we can plug into our 911 -- 5 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. It will be -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- or for U.G.R.A. purposes 7 for -- 8 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. We'll provide all the 9 mapping on AutoCAD, which is pretty much the standard for 10 mapping; that will be brought. If there's any -- any of 11 your information will be also provided on diskette, probably 12 in Word. You will also receive copies of -- of the report, 13 probably in large, three-ring binders. There's just going 14 to be a lot of maps and -- and some -- there's a profile 15 developed for each of the colonias, the unincorporated 16 areas, that gives basic information about the population, 17 the needs, those kind of things, and it will be provided in 18 a large, three-ring binder. We'll give you copies -- each 19 person will have a copy of that. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there any need for a 21 public declaration by this Court that an area is a colonia 22 before it can be studied? 23 MR. HARTZELL: You can choose to do that. 24 That's not necessary, but we can -- we can have a meeting, a 25 kickoff meeting, and talk about some of those issues, and 37 1 then we could -- you guys could decide, we don't want to 2 necessarily do that. That's fine. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not mandatory to 4 do that. 5 MR. HARTZELL: Not mandatory. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have, I guess, a 8 copy of what you've -- I guess, the product for another 9 county? 10 MR. HARTZELL: We -- well, the first one we 11 got was Atascosa County, and we just got the contract for 12 that in last year, so we haven't finished one yet. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Bandera is a work 14 in progress. 15 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. Bandera's contract -- 16 do we have their contract? Just got their contract this 17 spring. The State works a little slowly at getting 18 contracts out of -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But that has been 20 funded? 21 MR. HARTZELL: It has been funded and Medina 22 County has been funded, as well. I think both were funded 23 in 1999, and the contracts became available this spring. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 25 comments? 38 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more, Judge. How 2 long has your company been around? 3 MR. HARTZELL: 1979, we were founded. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I'd like to see 5 something or anything y'all have done that we can kind of 6 see the type of work. 7 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. We do have some -- 8 we've done dozens of planning studies for cities. And, 9 actually, the thing I handed out, the company information 10 sheet -- here's another thing I can give to you real quick. 11 I only have one of these, but you can keep it and take a 12 look. Here's a list of our clients in kind of the Hill 13 Country area. But, we could -- we have quite a few planning 14 studies that we've done for cities. I think one would be in 15 the area. We have a contract for Bandera, city of Bandera, 16 right now to do a planning study for the city, itself, but 17 we haven't started work on that yet. But, we can bring you 18 or mail you some examples to look at at your leisure before 19 the next meeting if you'd like to maybe see mapping and a 20 report. It won't be specifically -- it won't be exactly 21 like what you're going to get, 'cause it's for a city, but 22 it will be an example of our work. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is no matching 24 requirement for these, correct? 25 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 39 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Make sure we're clear on 2 that. Any further questions or comments? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move forward? Judge, 4 I offer a motion to authorize Grantworks to prepare a 5 Colonia Comprehensive Planning Fund grant application for 6 Kerr County for the 2000 program year, which would encompass 7 services as outlined in Mr. Hartzell's letter to us of 8 February 13th. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 11 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we 12 authorize Grantworks to prepare a Comprehensive Planning 13 Fund grant application for the 2000 program year. Any 14 further questions or comments? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'm concerned 16 about the agenda item here. I didn't -- I didn't think -- 17 by reading this, I didn't think we'd get quite this far. It 18 looks like, to me, the only thing on the agenda is the 19 presentation. I don't think that we have the leeway to move 20 forward with it. At least, I don't see that. That concerns 21 me some. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It will take a ruling 23 from the bench, then. If you think it's improperly stated, 24 we can come back another time. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the timetable on 40 1 this? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: The application deadline is 3 April 28th. We have to have a public hearing, and we 4 could -- we could defer this until the next regular -- the 5 scheduled meeting, which would be April the 3rd. At that 6 time, we would, if we so desired, enter into an agreement 7 with Grantworks, set a public hearing, and scramble forward. 8 Would that give you sufficient time? 9 MR. HARTZELL: When would be your next court? 10 The 3rd? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: The 3rd. Next one would be 12 the 17th. 13 MR. HARTZELL: Yeah, that should be fine. We 14 could -- yeah. If you could authorize the preparation of 15 that application, that's what the next step would be. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: 10th and 24th, I'm sorry. 18 I'm corrected. 19 MR. HARTZELL: That's fine. As long as the 20 resolution passed prior to the 28th, we're in good shape. 21 We need to hold a public hearing probably -- it needs to be 22 after 5 o'clock in the evening, so we would schedule it 23 maybe the week before your court -- your court meeting on 24 the 24th. And, you could authorize that application to be 25 prepared at your next meeting, and then we could do the 41 1 public hearing and then the resolution at the last meeting. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'll withdraw 3 the motion and will resubmit the item on the next court 4 agenda. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 6 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, 9 Mr. Hartzell. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Appreciate your coming. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could you get me a copy 12 of some of that information work you've done? 13 MR. HARTZELL: Sure, we'll get some examples 14 for you. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next we have Item Number 3, 16 which is consider and discuss additional funding to the 17 Collections Program through the Community Supervision and 18 Corrections Department. Judge Brown, Mr. Hollimon. Yes? 19 JUDGE BROWN: Y'all all have a copy of the 20 letter attached to it? Basically, what it is is 21 Mr. Hollimon has graciously budgeted and offered to 22 contribute $6,000 to the County to be used for Collections 23 Department, as outlined in the letter, and so we're just -- 24 the main thing is he -- he was concerned; he wanted to come 25 before the Commissioners. We didn't want to give you the 42 1 money and you put it in the General Fund, then it never got 2 to the Collections Department. So, that's what we're here 3 for, to ask the -- he wants to give you the money, but he 4 wants it to go to the Collections Department. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they're on to 6 us. 7 (Laughter.) 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you say that's 9 a level of trust being displayed? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Finally figured us 11 out, man. 12 MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir. I do have the money 13 in my budget. Mr. Duncan is doing a terrific service for 14 me, and I would like to give him that money so that he can 15 expand his -- his services to the County and to me, and 16 be -- and just help him out, because he is doing a wonderful 17 job for us. He's doing more than just what we're 18 contracting for. So, this is money that I have in -- in my 19 budget. It's money that I anticipate putting in the budget 20 each year, and would like to see that money go to him so 21 that he can expand his program. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy, any questions? 23 Comments? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any comments 43 1 or questions? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment or my, I 3 guess, question is, you mentioned planning to put this money 4 in the budget for future years. Since we're halfway through 5 the budget year, is this the amount that we would expect 6 every year, or -- 7 MR. HOLLIMON: This -- at this point in time, 8 yes, sir. It would be this amount every year. Now, as -- 9 as the program grows -- and it depends, too, on how much 10 money that I've got in my budget. Things are kind of 11 running tight this year. But, yeah, I would expect it to 12 get -- this amount to be done every year. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, that means -- I 14 mean, I guess, the -- if we're going to go $6,000 for half a 15 year, logic would say you need $12,000 for the full year. 16 MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir, but this was 17 actually anticipated being a full year. We've been working 18 on this for quite some time. We had taken a different 19 approach. The contract, as -- as it's written, is only 20 approximately a month old, but we actually started 21 discussing this back in the summer, or prior to the summer. 22 And, we had thought that there were going to be some other 23 people participating and contributing to it. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, is there any 25 problem with -- I mean, I guess it would be on a monthly 44 1 basis, reducing the amount next year? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I don't think reducing 3 the -- 4 JUDGE BROWN: Not reducing, adding. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is it multi-year 6 money? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's not. So, 9 whatever is not spent this year goes away. 10 MR. HOLLIMON: What I would do is, this 11 $6,000, I would pay that to the -- to the County for this 12 year. Next year, pay another $6,000. This -- this is for 13 the service. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 15 MR. HOLLIMON: I feel like I'm going to be 16 getting my money's worth, because I'm already getting my 17 money's worth. I'm not paying him anything, and he's 18 already doing these things for me. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I want to point out two 20 things, which I know you're already aware of. One is 21 that -- this is really to Russ. Russ -- Mr. Duncan, in 22 order for to you budget for this money, it has to be 23 contractual. This is -- when we accept this money today, as 24 I think we are, you cannot assume you're going to have it 25 next year unless there's another contract -- 45 1 MR. DUNCAN: I understand. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- with Mr. Hollimon's 3 department. In other words, this is not money the County's 4 going to fund as pass-through money. So, if, for whatever 5 reason, Mr. Hollimon's not able to continue this contract on 6 an annual basis, your budget would be reduced by the amount 7 of that shortfall. 8 MR. DUNCAN: That's understood, Your Honor. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're going to increase it by 10 $6,000, but that doesn't mean that when we figure the budget 11 this summer, you're going to have that extra $6,000, unless 12 Mr. Hollimon comes in with a contract. 13 MR. DUNCAN: That's understood. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: The contract needs to be with 15 Kerr County, too. 16 MR. HOLLIMON: Yes, sir. And I do have the 17 contract prepared. It was prepared by Tom Pollard. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: The other thing I'd point out 19 is, in your budget, I would ask Russ to make sure that you 20 don't need any additional supplies or any additional -- you 21 know, whatever. I mean, you've said in here salaries, 22 conferences, and search program. That's -- let's make sure 23 that if there are any additional supplies or consumables 24 that are required, that they get covered out of this 25 additional funds, as well. 46 1 MR. DUNCAN: Yes, Your Honor. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone else have any 3 questions or comments? I think it's a wonderful idea. Yes, 4 Tommy? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: We already have a contract -- 6 the County does -- with the Probation Department for the 7 Drug Offenders Education Program. This works essentially 8 the same way. And, another reason for the contract is 9 that -- that the Criminal Justice Division of the Texas 10 Department of Criminal Justice requires the Probation 11 Department to operate under a contractual basis, so that's 12 another reason for the contract. Mechanically, as far as 13 the money, will work the same way. In other words, we -- 14 we'll budget the revenue as General Fund revenue, and -- and 15 increase the Probation Department's budget by that 16 corresponding amount. At this point, I would like to know 17 if -- if you're going to make a motion, if you would include 18 the amendment of his -- of his -- of his budget at this 19 point. The other side of that amendment will be to accept 20 the revenue. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, if we choose to do this, 22 we need a motion to approve the contract between the Adult 23 Probation and the County, and authorize me to sign it for 24 purposes of additional revenue for the Collections 25 Department, and amend the budget to show that additional -- 47 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Correct. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- revenue pursuant to the 3 contract. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can I say "so moved"? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think you just did. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we don't have to 11 repeat that. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 14 approve the contract between the Adult Probation Department 15 and Kerr County for purposes of increasing the Collection 16 Department budget by the aggregate amount of $6,000 for the 17 balance of this fiscal year, and to amend the budget for the 18 Collections Department to reflect the additional revenue. 19 Any further discussion or comments? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a comment. I think 21 that motion covers all this, but all of the -- any benefits 22 under, you know, Social Security and all that are coming out 23 of the $6,000 too, and when you do the budget amendment -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a contract. 25 That would be a separate contract, personal service 48 1 contract, wouldn't it? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we can -- I 3 can't remember how Mr. Duncan is being paid right now 4 exactly, but I don't think we can -- I think it's been ruled 5 by the Treasurer's Department earlier that we can't have -- 6 if you're working for the County, you're working for the 7 County. You can't be paid contract part and salary part, as 8 I understand it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to talk about 10 that, 'cause that's what we just heard said. Personal 11 services contract. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think so. I think 13 Commissioner Letz is right, that the analogy is the 14 additional funds for J.P. 1's clerk that Constable McClure 15 provided, we had to include within the amount he provided in 16 FICA and other benefits, as I recall. Isn't that right, 17 Barbara? 18 MS. NEMEC: That's right. I believe this 19 contract is with the County, not with Mr. Duncan. 20 Therefore, the County would just do a budget amendment to 21 pay him that extra salary, but that is not a contract. The 22 contract with Adult Probation is with the County. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the additional salary 24 supplement will be inclusive of FICA and other benefits. 25 That's understood? Okay. 49 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, there's a 2 part-time salary in here, and that includes that person 3 also. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. Yes, okay. Any further 5 comments or questions? In not, all in favor, raise your 6 right hand. 7 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 11 MR. HOLLIMON: Thank you very much. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Howard. Thank 13 you, Judge Brown. We appreciate it. Next item is Item 14 Number 4, consider and discuss the final plat for Twin 15 Springs Ranch Subdivision, Precinct Number 2. Commissioner 16 Williams. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Johnston? I see 18 Mr. Lindley's in the audience, as well as Mr. Voelkel. 19 Let's see what you gentlemen have. 20 MR. JOHNSTON: Twin Springs Ranch 21 Subdivision, it's just a -- consists of large-acreage 22 tracts, 25 to 50 acres. Roads are completed, I've 23 inspected. 16-foot-wide paved road, private road. 24 Subdivision had a drainage study performed by Les Harvey, 25 and all the drainage structures were sized accordingly. So, 50 1 I recommend approval. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have is -- 4 and this goes back to the road name question. And, as I 5 understand it, part of this is in Precinct 3, which is the 6 reason I got involved as well, but the majority is in 7 Commissioner Williams' precinct. I happened to be at 8 Voelkel Engineering when the question came up about the road 9 names. These road names are all listed, have been approved 10 by -- the City signed it using the old format, which was 11 North Spring Creek Lane. And, the question is, I mean, does 12 it make sense -- anyway, I believe T. Sandlin, when he was 13 going through the final process, came up, "No, that needs to 14 be changed to Spring Creek Lane, comma, North" or "comma, 15 letter N," as to the way we anticipate, based on the 16 conversations with the City -- or Larry's had with the City 17 road naming. 18 And, that I -- I talked to Commissioner 19 Griffin about this briefly to find out where we were with 20 the City and all that, and it's just something the Court 21 needs to decide, 'cause we're going to have quite a few -- 22 not quite a few; we'll have several of these coming through 23 in this interim period, whether we have one set of rules 24 that we've adopted, but they're not -- we already know 25 they're not going to be the final set of rules. So, do we 51 1 go by our current rules or what we think the rules are going 2 to be? And, I think one of the people, T. Sandlin has -- 3 wants to change it, basically, based on what they're going 4 to be, and it's kind of put the developers in -- this is the 5 first one we've come across, but it will be future 6 development too -- kind of an awkward position, not knowing 7 what to do, because we've been told to do two different 8 things. 9 MR. LINDLEY: Well, the premise you were 10 discussing was already approved and signed off. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 MR. VOELKEL: This is Mike Lindley, and I'm 13 Don Voelkel. We when we set this as a preliminary, we got 14 the designations from T. Sandlin to put it North Spring Buck 15 and North Twin Springs, and that's what we did. We didn't 16 even become aware of the fact that that wasn't the way it 17 may be done in the future until he signed this last week and 18 he put some wording in there, something to the effect that 19 it should be changed to the suffix instead of the prefix, 20 the way he had requested originally. And, so, I mean, just 21 kind of -- we weren't even aware that it was changed and it 22 was going to be changed or might be changed. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: And the rules changed prior -- 24 prior to changing the plats. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think, Judge, 52 1 legally, before we -- the City will act very quickly, for 2 them, at this point. I think on the -- I've been promised 3 that they will on getting the new guidelines, which would 4 have the suffix. But, right now, I think we are constrained 5 to the guidelines that are in place, and that we should go 6 ahead and if -- if everything else is okay, go ahead and 7 approve this, and then we'll have to do a name change, just 8 as we will on other roads. And, this could be done as a 9 blanket thing; it would require just a court order later to 10 change the prefixes to suffixes. And, if you can delay 11 putting up signs, you know, for 30 days, I think we'll have 12 it -- we can have it done by then. I think that's the 13 reasonable way to approach this, and that we should not 14 consider putting suffixes on there now, because technically 15 that law -- that guide -- those guidelines are not in 16 effect. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree 100 percent, 18 except for the fact we've got to do it anyway. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's going to happen 21 whether you like it or not. And, so, I don't know why we 22 don't do it now. But, I mean, if you -- if you are going to 23 stand on that thing that you've been told something, well, 24 we're going to stand on it, I agree. 25 MR. VOELKEL: Well, the only technical 53 1 problem is that the City signed the plats and approved the 2 plats with the prefix. And -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's already been 4 done. 5 MR. VOELKEL: It's already been done. 6 MR. LINDLEY: They already signed that off, 7 Buster, before we got 911, and then he made the change. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 MR. VOELKEL: One other thing. This is a 10 rarity, in that the City requests a set of films as well as 11 the County, and what we normally do is have two films -- 12 well, we haven't been requiring a film for our use. We've 13 just been using a paper copy, so we've been getting two 14 signed, but since one has to go back to the City, I've got 15 an additional set of films for the City. And, we -- and I 16 know this came up last time, Judge; I had one in here that 17 we've been giving a film to the County, because they require 18 it. They used to have a blueprint machine which required a 19 film. They don't have a blueprint machine any more. You 20 have a Xerox-type copier like we have, and I've just been -- 21 for our use, been using a paper copy, because -- because 22 it's cheaper and it does the same purpose. But, I've given 23 an extra set of films for the City, because I have to get 24 that back to Jim Dower after it gets recorded this 25 afternoon, whenever. Now, I just have one cover page as a 54 1 paper copy for our use, 'cause I've got the originals at my 2 office, but I just wanted to throw that out. I don't 3 know -- I mean, I delivered that -- I've been admonished 4 before for not doing it -- a list of admonishments, but 5 that's just one I just wanted to throw out, because the City 6 does request a full set of films. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move we grant final 9 plat approval for Twin Springs Ranch Subdivision, Precinct 10 2, part of which is in Precinct 3, in accordance with the 11 plat as submitted. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 14 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve the 15 final plat for Twin Springs Ranch Subdivision, Precinct 2. 16 Any further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 17 raise your right hand. 18 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. Next 22 item is Item Number 5, which is consider and discuss the 23 Road and Bridge recommendations for acceptance of annual 24 bids on base material, aggregate, emulsion oils, and 25 equipment by the hour, and award or reject the same. 55 1 Mr. Johnston? 2 MR. JOHNSTON: I think you have the entire 3 packet in your book, but I'll read the summary for the 4 product we selected. For corrugated metal pipe, Walters 5 Building Supply was the low bidder, with the caveat that 6 they sent us a letter later that said that quantities had to 7 be purchased in $2,500 or more quantities, which is not in 8 our bid form. But, we'd recommend to select that bid, but 9 if we have any problem with deliveries, we would like to 10 have the right to go with the second low bidder and 11 purchase, if there's a problem, since they're not a 12 manufacturer. The other two bidders were actual 13 manufacturers. They're a middle man; they just have someone 14 come out and dump it at the -- at our yard. 15 On oils or emulsions, Ergon -- we'd like to 16 select Ergon for the CRS-2, HFRS-2, and AEP oils. Ergon was 17 three-quarters of a penny per gallon more than the low bid, 18 Champion, which we presently use, but you have a list in 19 there of problems we've had with Champion over this past 20 year. For all the deliveries they made, most of them, vast 21 majority, 17 out of 25 loads, were -- were below the 22 required temperature. They were late numerous times, where 23 we had our crews just waiting. According to our count, 24 where they fill our distributor and we count the gallons 25 they're supposed to deliver versus what we think they 56 1 actually delivered, there were -- they had an undercount on 2 numerous times, and other problems about them spilling oil 3 and such. We'd like to use the second low bidder. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bottom line is the 5 roads that we're building with their materials were falling 6 apart. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, we had that, too. We 8 had a consulting engineer come out last week, and he's going 9 to do an analysis of two roads where the aggregate's popping 10 out oil. There's a lot of variables we're trying to 11 determine with whether the oil was met or what the problem 12 is. On aggregate, Type A-3, Wheatcraft is low bid. Type 13 A-4, Drymala. A-5, Drymala. Type B, Wheatcraft. There's a 14 -- actually, the way he bid it, there's a little footnote 15 there that he wrote his bids in the wrong part of the bid 16 form, but we clarified that later, and that's correct. 17 Base materials supplier, Type A-1, Reeh. 18 A-2, Reeh. B-2 and C-2, Wheatcraft. Base materials 19 delivered within a 25-mile radius of Kerrville, freight is 20 included in that, whereas the base material I just read was 21 at the plant. And, Wheatcraft was low bid on A-2, B-2, and 22 C-2 type material. Equipment by-the-hour, Schwarz 23 Construction was low bid on an hourly basis. We'd also 24 like -- if Schwarz Construction is contracted elsewhere and 25 cannot do our work, we'd like to accept Edmund Jenschke and 57 1 C.C.S. Incorporated as backup contractors. And, there 2 was -- if we could, on the rock, Type B, Grade 3 and Grade 3 4, low bid was Smyth. And PB, Grade 5, is Vulcan. Trap 4 rock, there's only one supplier, all grades, from Vulcan. 5 Only bid. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This was the addendum 7 you sent out, you're talking about? 8 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. That was -- we just 9 left that off; it was bid that way. Those are the 10 recommendations for the coming year. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we accept and 12 award the bids as recommended. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second -- third. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 16 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Commissioners 17 Court award the bids for base material, aggregate, emulsion 18 oils, and equipment by-the-hour, as recommended by the 19 County Engineer. Any further discussion or comments? If 20 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 25 Franklin. Next item is Item Number 6, consider and discuss 58 1 the appointment of Joel Ayala to the position of Constable 2 Precinct 2 effective April 1, 2000, to fill the unexpired 3 term of Carl Williams. Commissioner Williams. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 5 Precinct 2 has been without the services of a constable 6 since the death of its constable, Carl Williams, earlier 7 this year. And, Mr. Ayala has been elected through the 8 primary process by an overwhelming majority of the people in 9 Precinct 2. Judge Wright advises me that she really does 10 need the services of a constable as quickly as possible, and 11 therefore, I have placed this on the agenda. I would make 12 one adjustment to the agenda item. Instead of the effective 13 date being April 1, I propose that the effective date be 14 April 3, which is a Monday. April 1, I think, is a 15 Saturday. And, with that one correction, I would move that 16 we appoint Mr. Ayala to the position of Constable Precinct 2 17 effective April 3, to fill the unexpired term of Carl 18 Williams. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 22 appoint Joel Ayala to the position of Constable Precinct 2 23 effective April 3rd, Year 2000, to fill the unexpired term 24 of Carl Williams. Any further questions or comments? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Question. There is 59 1 no -- correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no certified 2 candidate on the ballot in November other than Mr. Ayala, 3 right? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To my knowledge, 5 that's correct. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Joel, why don't you come 8 forward, introduce yourself? 9 MR. AYALA: I'm Joel. Looking forward to 10 working with these guys and with Judge Wright. I appreciate 11 everybody's vote and everybody's support. 12 (Applause.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further comments or 14 questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for coming, 20 Constable. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Joel, you'll need to make the 22 arrangements to get your bond, and make arrangements to be 23 sworn in; two oaths you have to take on April the 3rd. So, 24 be aware of those requirements, as I know you are. Okay. 25 Moving right along, only 22 items to go. Consider and 60 1 discuss accepting resignation of James "Charlie" Hicks as 2 Interim Sheriff of Kerr County, to be effective April 1st, 3 Year 2000. Commissioner Baldwin. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you 5 very much. Sheriff Hicks. 6 SHERIFF HICKS: Good morning. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a letter in 8 our packet today; it's a letter of resignation effective 9 April 1, 2000 from the Honorable James "Charlie" Hicks. 10 And, first of all, I wanted -- Sheriff Hicks, I wanted to 11 say thank you very much for serving our county and the -- 12 and the constituents of it, and we appreciate that very 13 much. I think that Charlie -- well, Sheriff Hicks still at 14 this moment -- needs to be commended in many, many ways, and 15 one thing that I want to make a point of is that Charlie's 16 desire -- his desire is to be in law enforcement, but 17 specifically, I think, is that his -- his heart lies with 18 the Narcotics Division, and probably particularly some kind 19 of undercover-type situation, maybe. And -- and because 20 that's his desire, I think that it's -- that it's the duty 21 of this Court and all government entities to empower him and 22 do everything that we can to see that his desires are met. 23 And, we call that, in the Republican circles, empowering 24 people, and I think that that is our duty. And, just as a 25 -- a payback to Charlie for serving our community in the way 61 1 he has, that we ought to do everything that we can to help 2 him along in -- in the position that is he's seeking and the 3 things that he's going to do in the future. Charlie, thank 4 you very much. Any of you guys want to comment? Or I'm 5 going to make a motion. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only comment I would 7 make would be to echo your -- your thoughts with respect to 8 the job that Sheriff Hicks has done. He came in and did a 9 really splendid job, very cooperative, always responsive to 10 calls and the needs of the people. And, Charlie, I 11 personally thank you for the service to Kerr County. 12 SHERIFF HICKS: Thank you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment would be the 14 same. Just thank you for what you've done, appreciate it. 15 You've done a good job. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that -- I'd add to 17 that, too, you've done a fantastic job in a very short 18 period of time. That's -- and I like -- I like to see 19 things happening; when there's decisions to be made, go 20 ahead and get them made, and you've certainly done that. 21 SHERIFF HICKS: Thank you. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would certainly echo that. 23 I've enjoyed working with Sheriff Hicks during the time of 24 his interim service to the County as Sheriff. He's served 25 the County in many ways for a long time. He has kept me 62 1 informed, he's kept me involved, and one of the things that 2 I most appreciate about him is that he has come directly to 3 me when he wants something, when he needs something. He's 4 picked up the phone, he's called me, he's come by my office 5 when he needs something. When there's something at the 6 department I need to know about, I've found out directly 7 from him; I have not found out through the grapevine. He's 8 not used intermediaries to come to me for things that he 9 needs; he's come directly to me. That's the way things work 10 the best, and I really appreciate that. 11 Unfortunately, I'm also here today kind of as 12 the watchdog of the electoral process. And, in my service 13 as a mediator for six years, I've found that when you honor 14 the process, the process works. When you attempt to 15 manipulate the process, the process often gets confused and 16 doesn't work. And, one question I would have to ask is 17 that, is there -- do we know whether or not there is a 18 candidate for Sheriff opposing Mr. Hierholzer in November? 19 Commissioner Baldwin, do we know whether there is a 20 candidate? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. The only 22 thing I know is on the table right now, is accepting 23 Mr. Hicks' resignation. We'll get -- I guess we'll get to 24 appointing a new Sheriff in just a moment. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it has an effect on 63 1 whether or not we should accept Mr. Hicks' resignation. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can go to Item 3 Number 8, I guess, first. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, if there's no -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, I think we 6 ought to consider 7 and 8 together, as we often do in other 7 things, because there are some questions, some of which you 8 have raised. I -- my understanding was -- and I don't know 9 that we've done reading on this yet, is that the Secretary 10 of State must, by tomorrow, certify if there is a 11 Libertarian candidate on the ballot in November, that that 12 must be certified tomorrow. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that correct? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Before we take up that 16 question, you make a good suggestion. Let's go ahead and 17 call Item Number 8, which is consider and discuss appointing 18 Rusty Hierholzer as Interim Sheriff, combine the two. And, 19 we will -- we'll get all the information out on the table at 20 once. Did I see Jannett in here? I thought I did. 21 AUDIENCE: She's gone. 22 MS. BARBEE: She's on travel; she won't be here 23 this week. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we can clear 25 up some of it with -- with this -- an opinion of the Kerr 64 1 County Attorney. The way I understand this opinion is that, 2 as of this moment, there is not a candidate -- another 3 candidate out there, and I personally don't really see what 4 difference that makes in any way. But, the County 5 Attorney's opinion here says there's not a candidate out 6 there, and we can move forward with what we're -- what we're 7 doing. I don't understand what the question is. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Unfortunately, let 9 me -- let me try to answer what my concern is in that area, 10 because the County Attorney, unfortunately, is not the 11 person who certifies candidates on the ballot for a general 12 election. That's done by the Secretary of State in Austin. 13 And -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- the question is -- 16 the question is, because what we discussed -- and, by the 17 way, let me preface this by saying to nominee Rusty 18 Hierholzer that this has nothing to do with -- with you, 19 Rusty, because I think you're going to make a great Sheriff; 20 I look forward to working with you. You've got my vote in 21 November. You are the nominee of my party. But, we sit 22 here not as -- as party members; we sit here as 23 representatives of all of the people in the county, be they 24 Democrats, Libertarians, vegetarians, or whatever. So -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where'd that come 65 1 from? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I got that from John 3 McCain. But -- so, the question is a process question. 4 It's a technical question, has nothing to do with the 5 individuals or the qualifications thereof. My understanding 6 is that the Libertarian party had an announced candidate, 7 that it had a convention, whatever it was. That within 10 8 days of that convention, that the Secretary of State -- or 9 the party must certify that candidate, just like Republicans 10 have to do and just like Democrats have to do, must certify 11 that to the Secretary of State for inclusion in the general 12 election ballot. Now, my recollection of what we talked 13 about last summer when Charlie Hicks became our Interim 14 Sheriff was that if there was not a contested election -- 15 not if there wasn't a Democrat on the ticket -- if there 16 wasn't a contested election, that, obviously, what we would 17 do is take the one announced candidate who was certified and 18 won the primary, and make that appointment. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what 20 we're doing today. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But we don't know yet 22 whether there's another -- we will tomorrow. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a candidate? 24 Is there a candidate? Let's ask the press; they're the ones 25 that's been looking into it. There is not a candidate. 66 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They have 10 days 2 after the convention, which was Saturday a week ago; that's 3 tomorrow. If -- if the Libertarians don't certify a 4 candidate to the State, then we've got no problem. So, if 5 we can wait until -- and I'd be glad -- be quite glad to 6 have a special session tomorrow or the minute we get the 7 word, and I'll make the motion to make Rusty Hierholzer our 8 Interim Sheriff to fill out the unexpired term that Charlie 9 would have resigned from, and that we would have accepted. 10 I'm just saying why -- what's the rush to do it today? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't understand 12 what you're dealing with, though. There is no candidate. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Buster, the time frame has 14 not -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's not going to 16 be one. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: The time frame has not 18 elapsed when we would know whether there is a candidate or 19 not. That's what Larry's saying. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know what Larry's 21 saying; I understand that clearly. It is not going to 22 happen, guys. What did y'all eat this morning? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, it's not -- and, 24 the insult won't make any difference, Buster. All I'm 25 saying is -- is that if we -- if we appoint Rusty now and 67 1 there is a candidate of any kind on the ballot in November 2 that's running against him, we may have given him a 3 disadvantage. We've given other political parties, quite 4 rightly, the ability to come and complain about five 5 Republicans sitting here and "old-boy" networking it to get 6 our guy in. He's our guy. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He sure is. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think he's going to 9 be elected without a question. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand exactly. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But it's a process 12 thing, has nothing to do with -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand clearly. 14 I've been around the thing before; I understand clearly. I 15 still have an agenda item here on the table, though. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Judge Brown, just a second. 17 Commissioner Letz? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, the 19 candidate we're talking about is Tom Adams, who may be 20 running, as I understand. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: John Adams, whatever his 23 name is. But, the issue, to me -- I mean, he -- I don't 24 care if he's a nominee of the Libertarian party or not. I 25 don't think he is a viable candidate. And, I -- I don't 68 1 think it's an issue. There's nothing that says that if he 2 is a candidate or isn't a candidate, that we can't appoint 3 him, and I don't think that there is a problem with 4 appointing Rusty, whether or not there is a Libertarian -- 5 that particular Libertarian candidate or not. And, I'll 6 take the -- and I think, in the interests of the taxpayers, 7 citizens of Kerr County, we're better off having the 8 Republican nominee as Sheriff now than to wait and go 9 through the interim process longer. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me make this one 11 other statement. To do that means, then, that what you're 12 saying is that we are going to appoint ourselves in place of 13 the Kerr County voters. Remember, they've only voted in a 14 primary. They haven't voted in a general election. So, 15 we're going to say, "Hey, it doesn't make any difference. 16 If the other candidate, whoever -- and I don't care who it 17 is. If the other candidate's not viable, then we'll make 18 that decision for you voters." That's what the -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can vote for him if 20 they want. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. We say that 22 tongue-in-cheek. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, they can vote for 24 him. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 69 1 What, if any, penalty accrues to our action if we were to 2 appoint Mr. Hierholzer today and the Secretary of State 3 sends word tomorrow that there is a candidate certified for 4 the ballot in November? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Probably -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What, if any, 7 penalty -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: May I interrupt and 9 say, probably none. But -- probably none whatsoever, except 10 for the fact that we have meddled in the process. And, the 11 process, to me, is electoral fairness. No matter what 12 the -- what the viability of the candidate is has nothing to 13 do with it. Our electoral system says if you get on the 14 ballot, that you go in on an even keel. Now, I think the 15 chances of him getting on the ballot are slim to none, 16 'cause I don't think the party -- his party is going to 17 certify him. But, if we could wait 24 hours or 48 hours, 18 then we can probably come back here and do this without ever 19 having meddled in the process. That's all I'm saying. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question -- 21 another question. Because the process -- does the process 22 allow an independent candidate to surface between now and 23 whenever to have a position on the November ballot? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. No, can't get 25 certified on the ballot. 70 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: An Independent? 2 Somebody declaring themself as an Independent? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They cannot, 'cause 4 they have to -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see a lot of heads 6 shaking, but I don't see an expert out there telling me 7 that. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They can't do it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's the County 10 Attorney. There's the Judge. Does the process enable an 11 Independent to declare candidacy between now and whenever 12 the ballot formally closes for the November election? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: The answer actually is yes, 14 because if you want to run as an Independent, you must 15 gather a certain number of signatures after the primaries of 16 people who did not vote in either the Republican or the 17 Democratic primary. Because there is a process where you 18 could get on as an Independent. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hasn't that process -- 20 hasn't that time limit already passed? I think it has, 21 because I think -- I think the ballot will be certified, 22 like, now. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, I don't think so. I 24 think you have until approximately the middle of May for 25 Independent, if they wanted to put themselves on the ballot, 71 1 to collect the necessary number of signatures to put 2 themselves on the ballot. I see Pat Dye in the audience. 3 Pat, do you have any memory of this? 4 MS. DYE: Seems like the law was changed. Now, 5 I've been out since '97, but I think the Independent had to 6 have the same filing deadline as any other candidate, I 7 think. Now, I have not read the Election Code lately, but I 8 think you're right. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you. I know 10 there is a process whereby you can get on the ballot as an 11 Independent, and it involves collecting signatures of people 12 who did not vote in the Republican or the Democratic primary 13 or any partisan primary. I don't -- what I'm fuzzy on is 14 the time frame. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's passed. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Judge Brown, you've been 17 trying to say something for a while. 18 JUDGE BROWN: You know, we all know who's 19 going to be the next Sheriff; there's no question about it. 20 But, what you're doing here, you're depriving Rusty of 21 participating in the budget process, which Judge Henneke 22 brought up whenever you appointed Mr. Hicks. You said that 23 we need to do this so that we're -- in order for the new 24 Sheriff to participate in the budget process for next year. 25 And, we all have to think ahead, a year ahead, because you 72 1 don't -- you can't run your business, come in here next 2 year -- if he gets in office and he comes in here, he says, 3 "I need this, I need that," we can't bust the budget, so 4 he's not going to have a chance to participate. So, it's 5 going to hurt Kerr County. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It might make -- 7 JUDGE BROWN: And that, by now, he's not 8 on -- hey, he's not on any ballot anywhere. He's not likely 9 to get on the ballot. He's not a viable candidate. And, 10 this -- this -- I don't know about the technical stuff, but 11 I don't run my business on technicalities. I mean, I run on 12 the practical. Let's be practical. The citizens of Kerr 13 County have decided who they want to be their Sheriff. You 14 can check with the Clerk's office; the Libertarian party 15 hasn't properly done anything to get on the ballot, so that 16 the Libertarian party will not even get on the ballot that 17 selects Mr. Adams. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: May I respond, Judge? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, you may. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Any candidate who runs 22 for office, who wins the primary election, is faced with the 23 same budget -- lack of budget input that you ascribe to this 24 case. I was -- I won in the primary that I ran in in April 25 in a runoff. From April until the 1st of January, I had no 73 1 budgetary input, because there was someone in the office, 2 and that -- that candidate didn't choose to step aside for 3 me to take over. I could have if the Court had appointed 4 me. So, that -- I just don't see that as an argument, 5 Judge. I -- it's -- obviously, it would be better to always 6 have electees in -- in place to go through the budget 7 process, but I don't see that as the reason to go meddle in 8 the electoral process. 9 JUDGE BROWN: You're not meddling in the 10 electoral process. There's nobody on the ballot right now. 11 You're not electing -- meddling in anything. What they do 12 in the future, you can't control, whether they put someone 13 on there or not. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is a time frame -- 15 JUDGE BROWN: There's no legal impediment 16 there. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is a time frame within 18 which we will know whether there is a Libertarian candidate 19 who will be on the ballot. My understanding is that 20 decision has not been made, is likely to be made in the next 21 two weeks or so; that the decision to put someone on a 22 County ballot is made by the County party. Now, the 23 question becomes, is there a Libertarian party in Kerr 24 County, and have they gone through the necessary procedures 25 in order to put a -- put a candidate on the ballot? I don't 74 1 know. I have some questions about that, but I don't know. 2 And, there is a time frame within which this information 3 becomes known. I think Commissioner Griffin's point is that 4 there is no necessity to do this today; that if we defer 5 this for two weeks until our next meeting, or even the 6 meeting after that, there is no harm done. If we find that 7 there's not a Libertarian candidate, then Mr. Hierholzer 8 takes office and he still has ample time to participate in 9 the budget process. The budget process hasn't started yet. 10 If we find that there is a Libertarian party, then we can 11 make the decision with full knowledge of all the facts. 12 At this time, quite frankly, we don't know 13 what the situation is. We know that there was a Libertarian 14 party county convention posted, posted right out here on our 15 bulletin board. There is some question about whether it was 16 posted properly, but that's not a decision that we make. We 17 do not know at this time what the results of that party 18 convention will be. We do not know whether the results of 19 that party convention will have any impact on the ballot 20 here in Kerr County, but there is a time frame within which 21 that information will become known, and then we'll have all 22 the facts that we need to go on in order to reach a 23 decision. I think that we dishonor the process if we 24 involve ourselves in the selection of someone who will have 25 a contest in November. 75 1 When Jannett Pieper won the primary in 1998, 2 it would have been very easy for Billie Meeker to resign and 3 for our previous court to have appointed Ms. Pieper, because 4 I'm sure the presumption among everyone was that, while her 5 Democratic candidate was a fine individual, she had no 6 viable chance of being elected. What we've been -- the 7 difference between that and now is there was no talk about 8 that then, because it was a Democrat, and not a Libertarian. 9 Well, are we making a value choice between the Democratic 10 party and the Libertarian party? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Billie Meeker never 12 came to us to resign. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: She could have. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, she didn't come to 15 us, and we can't remove her. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, I didn't say we could. I 17 said she could have come to us to resign, and the Court 18 could have -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But she didn't, so we 20 never discussed who we were going to appoint. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the reason she didn't 22 was because she didn't want people who were involved at the 23 time -- didn't want to become involved in the electoral 24 process. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's maybe a 76 1 presumption on your part. I don't know if anyone knows why 2 Ms. Meeker chose to stay in office. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let me -- this 4 is my agenda item, by golly. Just let me make a comment; 5 that, overwhelmingly, the voters of Kerr County voted for 6 Mr. Hierholzer. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I have to interrupt 8 you, then. Overwhelmingly -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd appreciate it if 10 you wouldn't interrupt me, though. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. The voters 13 overwhelmingly voted for Mr. Hierholzer, and besides that, 14 we have a petition or a list of names of around 50 Kerr 15 County Sheriff's Office employees that desire that this 16 action be taken today. And, I understand what you guys are 17 saying. I'm very, very clear. I understand. I just 18 think -- I just don't -- I just don't agree with you. That 19 we do not -- I will agree with Mr. Brown, that we do not 20 have another candidate out there, and probably won't. I 21 tell you what I want to do. And, I understand the reason we 22 moved -- we can't handle -- we go on to Number 8 to look at 23 appointing Mr. Hierholzer as the Sheriff, so that if we 24 don't accept Charlie and we don't appoint Rusty, then he is 25 -- by law, remains the Sheriff; is that correct? Is that 77 1 what -- that's my understanding. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Once we accept his 3 resignation, he's no longer the Sheriff. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. But 5 if -- but if we don't get the thing done with Rusty, Charlie 6 will remain the Sheriff, by law, until such time as we 7 accept his resignation. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Or until his successor is 9 qualified, that's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. What 11 I'd like to do -- what I'd like to do is I'd still like to 12 make the motion, and if my motion fails, I would like to 13 bring it back in 24 hours. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Whenever we can get 15 word that there is no other candidate, which should be -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tomorrow? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, I'm -- I've 18 gotten some vibrations here that 10 days may not be correct. 19 Does anybody know for certain, from the political world? Or 20 perhaps -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Republican County 22 Chair is out there. Maybe she can shed some light. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Really, 20 days after 24 the fact that that candidate has to be -- or 10 days or 20 25 days or whatever -- what's the number? 78 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We ought to ask the County 2 Attorney's office to take a look at that and advise us. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll tell you, one of 4 the reasons I would like to have this nice and clean is 5 that -- 'cause I want to -- I want to vote in favor of Item 6 Number 8 on the agenda, but I can't do that with a clear 7 conscience and -- and feeling that I'm not meddling in the 8 process unless we have that clarified, unless this ballot 9 thing is clarified. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, I can. That's 11 where we're different. I can vote on that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a -- maybe a 13 solution, and I'll say -- I mean, it don't make any 14 difference to me if there is a Libertarian candidate on the 15 ballot or not. I think Rusty should become Sheriff now. 16 However, I also don't think it is fair, to Rusty, primarily, 17 to have a split vote, or vote today so it sounds like one or 18 possibly more of the Commissioners vote against Rusty for an 19 unrelated reason that has nothing to do with Rusty. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about if we defer 22 this two weeks, to our next meeting? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why not 24 hours? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or whenever we know. 25 However, I'm going to also say that if there is a 79 1 Libertarian candidate on there, I'm still going to vote for 2 Rusty at that point, and then if somebody wants to vote 3 against it, they can. But, I don't mind -- you know, 24 4 hours later is 24 hours. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Or whatever it takes. 6 But, I would agree with it. I would agree with it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Within reason. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hey, the vote may 9 still be -- if we knew there was another party's candidate 10 on the ballot, then I would agree that we can still vote 11 whatever, including unanimously, to go ahead and do it, but 12 I think I would like to know what those facts are before we 13 act. That's all I'm saying. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can I make a comment? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd just like for the 17 public to know and the Court to know, I'm not against 18 putting Mr. Hierholzer into the Sheriff's Department and the 19 office of Sheriff as quickly as we possibly can. I am 20 against tainting the process. If we can avoid tainting the 21 process, even though -- even though we -- it really doesn't 22 look like there is to be a candidate, 24 or even 48 hours 23 until the Secretary of State comes back and certifies the 24 ballot is a small price to pay -- it's no price to pay to 25 take the office with a clean slate and go in unencumbered, 80 1 with nothing against you in that regard. And that the 2 public can't say, "Well, it could have been." There won't 3 be, but why even take the chance? I would like to see us 4 delay it until we get the letter from the Secretary of 5 State, and immediately call the Court back in session on 6 this particular item -- these two items, to take care of 7 them without any further debate. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the only reason 9 that I am pushing the 24-hour period is because Mr. Hicks is 10 desiring to go on and do other things. He has -- I think 11 he's got something on his mind, and the quicker he can get 12 out of here and get toward his goals -- and that's what I 13 was talking about in my opening statement, is that we need 14 to empower him. We need to do everything that we can to get 15 him going in a direction that he desires to go. Not what we 16 desire, but what he desires and what is the best thing 17 for -- for Charlie Hicks, and that's all I'm trying to do is 18 get that done and meet his wishes. What happened to the 19 24-hour thing that turned into two weeks suddenly? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wouldn't say two 21 weeks. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: The issue is, we don't know 23 for sure what the time frame is. Commissioner Griffin seems 24 to think we'll know within 24 hours. I don't know what the 25 time frame is. I don't know if they have 10 days after 81 1 their convention to report the results or if they have 20 2 days after the convention to report the results, or what. 3 Ms. Pieper is not here; she's on the road somewhere. She'd 4 be the one we would ask for that guidance. Pat, do you have 5 any -- 6 MS. DYE: I don't have any information on that 7 part, but our County Chair's on her way to call the 8 Secretary of State to see if the Libertarian party does have 9 Mr. Adams on the ballot. Would that help? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can table this till the 11 end of today's meeting, which is going to run into the 12 afternoon. We can -- our options are, we can recess at the 13 end of today, which would bring us up until -- would give us 14 another 24 hours to make the decision. Now, we have a 15 number of options. One of the options is to go ahead and 16 vote on it. It's up to the -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's table -- if you 18 don't mind, let's table these two issues and go on through 19 our agenda -- we haven't even had a morning break yet -- and 20 go on. And then, if we still don't -- if we still don't get 21 a -- a decision today from the Secretary of State, I would 22 like to just recess today; not shut out the meeting, but 23 recess for the -- what do we have? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can recess for up to 24 25 hours without having to call a meeting. 82 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For 24 hours without 2 having to call a meeting, but the County Attorney is here 3 that actually wrote this opinion. I'd like to get a comment 4 from her, if we could. That's Ilse Bailey. 5 MS. BAILEY: Commissioner Baldwin and the 6 rest of the Court, I am not completely well-versed in the 7 Election Code, but I did just have a provision handed to me 8 which I think may shed some light on some of the questions. 9 This is Section 181.005. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ilse, pull the mic a 11 little closer so we can hear you. 12 MS. BAILEY: Okay. Section 181.005, 13 qualifying for placement on the ballot by party required to 14 nominate by convention, which would include the Libertarian 15 party. They are required to nominate their -- their nominee 16 by convention to be entitled to have the names of its 17 nominees placed on the general election ballot. A political 18 party required to make nominations by convention must file 19 with the Secretary of State not later than the 75th day 20 after the date of the precinct convention the chapter -- not 21 chapter, the list of precinct's convention participants, 22 indicating that the number of participants equals 1 percent 23 of the total number of votes received by all candidates for 24 governor in the most recent gubernatorial election, so forth 25 and so on. And then, of course, you don't get your nominee 83 1 until after you have already had that -- the precinct 2 participants filed. So, it's going to be sometime after the 3 75th day after the precinct convention, which was, I think, 4 reported to have been March the 14th. 5 MS. DYE: Election day, yes. 6 MS. BAILEY: They also supposedly evidently 7 had their county convention the 18th; is that right? 8 MS. DYE: Probably. 9 MS. BAILEY: It was posted either the 17th or 10 the 18th, so I would gather from that that we won't have a 11 definitive answer on whether or not -- at least from a 12 timeline, until 75 days after the convention. Now, it's my 13 understanding, just from -- this is purely from having heard 14 people talk about it -- that the question being addressed to 15 the State Chair didn't have so much to do with this 16 timeline, but with whether or not, given what they know 17 about that candidate, whether that candidate would ever be a 18 viable Libertarian candidate. They may be able to make that 19 decision prior to this date, and my understanding is that 20 that was what the deadline was. The newspaper said that we 21 might know by Friday, and then perhaps there's someone else 22 saying that maybe we'll hear by Tuesday, but it's not this 23 statutory deadline. I think it's more of a self-imposed 24 deadline by the State Chair. I would be happy to -- to 25 inquire into that if you would like me to and report back, 84 1 although I understand the Republican Chair is doing the same 2 thing, so perhaps you'd either want to ask her to inquire 3 into that, or -- or we could work together on that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you're saying is 5 whatever inquiry is being made has to do with the viability 6 of the candidate, as opposed to the time frame. Is that 7 what you're saying? 8 MS. BAILEY: That's my understanding, and 9 that would be supported by what I see in the statutory 10 reference. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You're talking about 12 viability from the Libertarians' point of view? 13 MS. BAILEY: Exactly. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Whether or not they 15 would -- 16 MS. BAILEY: Whether or not they want to 17 adopt him as a candidate they're willing to represent -- or 18 have represent them, would be more correct. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: From what I read in 20 the paper, I understood there was going to be 10 days from 21 the time of the convention. Was that -- did anybody else 22 read that? Or did I dream it? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The party was going to 25 make the -- check that. 85 1 MS. BAILEY: The newspaper article that 2 referred to that, I think, was attached to my opinion, 3 and -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 5 MS. BAILEY: What does it say there, Buster? 6 I don't remember. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Papers validating the 8 County Libertarian party endorsement of Adams for the 9 nomination must be turned into the office of Kerr County 10 Clerk within 10 days. 11 MS. BAILEY: Oh, yeah. That's just the -- 12 the list to our office of their precinct. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have we got that? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's through the 15 County Clerk, not even the Secretary of State. 16 MS. BAILEY: The problem with that, though, 17 is that my understanding, from talking to the Secretary of 18 State's office, is that if that is not done, it's -- it is 19 considered an irregularity, but they won't take a position 20 on whether or not that disqualifies the candidate. That 21 would require mandamus to be filed. I know that there are 22 some other alleged significant irregularities in the way 23 various things were done in the Libertarian party's process. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Which would certainly 25 be enough, in my mind -- 86 1 MS. BAILEY: All of which would be the basis 2 for a mandamus, but I don't think that we're in a 3 position -- and I'm not in a position to say that it's such 4 an irregularity that a district judge would declare it 5 devoid of any possibility of being placed on the ballot. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, ten days from 7 the date they stated they were going to have the convention 8 in this particular story, that has elapsed. 9 MS. BAILEY: Yes -- or is that tomorrow? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's tomorrow, okay. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back to tomorrow. 12 Judge, can we just lay these two items down? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure, we can. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll agree to readdress them 16 at the end of the day. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: The Court is going to defer 19 any action on Items 7 and 8 until at least the conclusion of 20 today's meeting, at which time we'll make a decision about 21 whether to proceed or to take a recess or what we want to do 22 on these two items. We're past our break, but we also have 23 a public hearing scheduled at 10:30. We're going to do 24 that, and then we will go from there into -- come back and 25 do the rest of the agenda. At this time, the Court will 87 1 adjourn its formal session and go into a public hearing on 2 the establishment of a Lake Ingram Estates Road District in 3 accordance with Chapter 257 of the Texas Transportation 4 Code. Commissioner Griffin. 5 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:50 a.m., and a public hearing 6 was held in open court, as follows:) 7 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The Court -- the Court 9 will remember that two weeks ago, we set the date for this 10 hearing of the Lake Ingram Estates Road District, in 11 accordance with -- establishing it in accordance with the 12 Code. This is the follow-up to that. This is the public 13 hearing. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is a public hearing. Is 15 there any member of the public here who would like to 16 address the Court on the issue of establishment of the Lake 17 Ingram Estates Road District? Again, is there anyone here 18 in the public? Please come forward and identify yourself. 19 MR. GUMERT: Good morning. My name is John 20 Gumert. I'm a resident of Lake Ingram Estates. I'm sitting 21 in for Butch Young, who initiated the process to develop 22 that road district. Butch is with the Parks and Wildlife 23 and was called to duty this morning, asked could I stop by. 24 Lake Ingram Estates was created in two parts, in 1978 and in 25 1981, approved subdivision plats that cover about 67 lots. 88 1 The lots range from 5 to 18 acres in size. All of them have 2 been sold from the developer, with the exception of one or 3 two, so there are approximately 64 landowners. 4 (Mr. Young entered the courtroom.) 5 MR. GUMERT: There he is. Don't run off. 6 There's approximately 64 landowners, to my knowledge. There 7 are nine families that -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Less dense up there. 9 MR. GUMERT: The subdivision is located 10 entirely in Precinct 4 on the south side of the river, 11 across the river from Ingram High School. It's accessed by 12 Cade Loop, which is a paved county road. And, there are 13 approximately 4 miles of dirt road within the subdivision 14 that is the subject of this petition. Butch is here now, so 15 let me defer to him, 'cause he's the brainchild behind this. 16 I didn't see you come in, I'm sorry. 17 MR. YOUNG: We were -- we were told public 18 hearing; we just come in right now. But, we are -- there's 19 quite a few Lake Ingram Estates landowners here present in 20 the room. We do ask the Commission to form a road district. 21 We have a situation where we have a road which is in 22 deplorable condition and degrading daily, and we do need 23 your help, and we're willing to do whatever the Commission 24 wants us to do to work with you on this situation. We thank 25 you very much. 89 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I might point out, for 2 the Court's benefit, that these folks have really done a 3 great job, I think, of getting together as a -- a local, 4 regional part of the community. They've -- they've asked 5 for help; they're not asking for a handout. They wanted to 6 form a road district, have the road brought up to County 7 standards, have it accepted for county maintenance, and they 8 will pay through a bond issue, which we'll address later 9 today. They would pay for that on their tax bill, so I 10 think this is exactly the way these things -- the way the 11 law was designed and the way that we ought to see this kind 12 of thing done in the future. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there any other member of 14 the public who would like to address the Commissioners Court 15 during this public hearing on the issue of the establishment 16 of the Lake Ingram Estates Road District? If there's no one 17 else who would like to address the Court, we will close the 18 public hearing. 19 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:55 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 20 meeting was reopened.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin, do you 23 want to take up the next two items before break, or -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We could go ahead and 25 take up -- I need to get some copies run before we take up 90 1 Number 11, but we can go ahead and do 10 with no problem. 2 Number 11 is just to accept the petition for the bond issue 3 and set up them up a hearing. We can do that after the 4 break, but I would like to go ahead and call Item 10, so if 5 we go -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's quickly call 7 Item Number 10, consider and discuss establishment of Lake 8 Ingram Estates Road District in accordance with Chapter 257 9 of the Texas Transportation Code. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I can make the motion 11 that we -- we establish the Lake Ingram Estates Road 12 District in accordance with the Transportation Code, and I 13 think it's a great idea. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to second 15 it, and in doing so, thank Commissioner Griffin for his work 16 in getting this process this far. I was in hope that we'd 17 have Shadow Ridge on the same agenda and same timeline, 18 because in that area we're talking about doing the same 19 thing. We're lagging a little bit behind in logistical 20 work, but we'll get there, but I do appreciate what you've 21 done and second your motion. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 23 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that this Court 24 establish the Lake Ingram Estates Road District in 25 accordance with Chapter 257 of the Texas Transportation 91 1 Code. Any further questions or comments? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to second the 3 motion also. But I can't. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Third by Commissioner 5 Baldwin, fourth by Commissioner Letz. If there's no further 6 discussion, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We'll stand 11 in recess. Let's try to be back as close to 11:00 as we 12 can, at which time we'll take up the petition regarding 13 issuing of a road district and the remainder of the agenda. 14 Thank you. 15 (Recess taken from 10:54 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. It's 11 o'clock on 18 Monday, March 27th. We're going to come back from our 19 morning break. The first item we'll take up is Item 2.11, 20 consider and discuss acceptance of a petition regarding 21 issuance of road district tax bonds for the Lake Ingram 22 Estates Road District and set the date for public hearing in 23 accordance with Chapter 1471 of the Texas Government Code. 24 Commissioner Griffin. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me hand out -- 92 1 disregard the petition, because it was incomplete. What I'm 2 handing you out now does have everything that's required. 3 And, the original, of course, is with the -- is the with the 4 County Clerk. I'll wait till these gentlemen can hear. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The front of this is 7 the new -- is the petition, with some corrections on it that 8 I had overlooked in the one that's in your book. Disregard 9 the one in your book. The one on your -- on your plate 10 there is the right one. This is -- again, in this new 11 process, we're still working out the kinks in it. This is 12 the next step in the road district process. This is a 13 petition by a majority or -- yes, a majority of the 14 landowners -- actually, it's all of them, with the exception 15 of two. This is the petition for -- for us to issue -- 16 authorize the issuance of -- or call a bond election so that 17 the road district gets funded through the issuance of bonds, 18 of course, which the citizens will pay back through their 19 taxes. What we have to do, according to the law, is that we 20 have to accept this petition at this point, and that's the 21 way I'm going to move, is that we accept the petition at 22 this point and set a public hearing on this petition. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the difference 24 between this one and the one in the packet? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In the top -- if 93 1 you'll look at the top, this one was the election of Lake 2 Ingram Estates Road District bond issuance. The other was 3 establishment of the road district. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You're saying what's 6 the difference -- oh, you're saying what's the difference 7 between the one I just gave you and the one that's in the 8 book? We did not have the date of birth on the -- on these 9 originals. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now we've got them, 12 and -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We were able to do 15 that through Voter Registration. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The law requires that 18 the date of birth of the petitioners be on for bond 19 issuance. So, I would move at this time that we accept this 20 petition, and set a hearing, which can be no earlier than 15 21 days, nor later than 45 days, as I recall. But, anyway, it 22 will fit with our next regular meeting, which is the 10th. 23 That gives us enough -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's only 14 -- two weeks. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 10th -- I think 94 1 the 10th is our next meeting, I think. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct, but that's 3 only 14 days. 4 (Discussion off the record.) 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me -- give me just 6 a moment; let me verify that. This is in -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 10th is the 14th 8 day. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. The date may be 10 no less than 15 days or more than 90 days after the date the 11 Commissioners Court orders the hearing. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: So we can't have -- let's do 13 it at the second meeting. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have to go to the 15 second meeting. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Unless we want to have a 17 special meeting. It will have to be the special meeting. 18 MS. BAILEY: It can't be before the 11th. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can't be before the 20 11th. I was hoping -- 21 MR. ODOM: I'm Len Odom. I missed that, 22 Commissioner. What do you have 90 days -- up to 90 days 23 before the bonds are issued? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. No. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: You have to have the public 95 1 hearing. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is the public 3 hearing we're talking about. Between 15 and 90 days after 4 you accept the petition. 5 MR. ODOM: For that bond issue? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. It's -- 7 MR. ODOM: That doesn't mean the construction 8 starts? 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, no. No. No. 10 This is a public -- we have to have a public hearing before 11 we first -- let me explain this so that everybody 12 understands it. We have to have a public hearing 15 to 90 13 days after we order that hearing. 14 MR. ODOM: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That is what the Court 16 can do at this point, is to order the election for the bond 17 issuance. That's all we can do at this point. That -- that 18 election will take place on the next uniform election date, 19 so-called. So, there's still an election to go through. 20 And, then, the earliest that could happen is May. May the 21 5th is the next uniform election date. I don't know what 22 the next one after that one is; it's in the law. But, 23 anyway, so we do that. We would -- we'd still have to have 24 the election, and then the bonds have to get issued, so 25 we're talking a while before you're actually taking bids, 96 1 and -- and you'd go ahead and start that bid process, but 2 you're talking a while before you do any work. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that, just a question. 4 I think probably what Leonard's asking, is there a period 5 that the work has to be started by? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other part is, 8 then, does it -- under this process, it's the County's 9 responsibility for building the road, correct? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Because -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or contract. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me explain some 13 other nuances of this that the Court really needs to be 14 aware of, and it's in the law; Ilse found this for me. 15 There is no way we can appoint another board for a road 16 district that's formed like this. The only body that can 17 administer a road district with bond-issuing authority is 18 this Court. We have to administer it. So, that contract to 19 do the road will be between the contractor and the County. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm glad you shed 21 some light on that, because that question came up before and 22 we really didn't know for sure. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, and we found 24 it. It says that in black and white. 25 MS. BAILEY: It's a specific statutory 97 1 requirement. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It says that the 3 only -- the only entity that can administer the road 4 district that has bond-issuing authority is the 5 Commissioners Court of the County. So, if the work would be 6 done, you know, we get the bond money up front to do that, 7 and then the citizens pay off the bonds and all that sort of 8 thing through their taxes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of our budget 10 process, I mean, are these things -- I mean, is it going to 11 be -- I guess, to me, the reasonable way would be whatever 12 year we do it, it goes in the next budget cycle, so then 13 it's in that following budget year. Is that delaying it too 14 long? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it is. I 16 think we can have this done much quicker than that. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: It would be just like what we 18 did with the contribution by Adult Probation Department. 19 Once the bonds were sold, we'd go ahead and amend the 20 budget, put the money in under a line item for that road 21 district, and move forward. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that part. 23 But, from Road and Bridge's standpoint, their projects are 24 planned at least a year in advance. For them to have to do 25 this, he's going to have to pull a project, or from a 98 1 supervision standpoint. 2 MR. ODOM: What has priority? 3 MR. JOHNSTON: We pull money out of that bond 4 right away; it's like a special project. We don't use our 5 money for it. 6 MR. ODOM: No, but I don't know -- from the 7 standpoint that those contractors -- I have certain things 8 in this budget year to do, and that, you know, I'm competing 9 against a program and what has priority, which we've already 10 set out a year ago. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This would go -- this 12 would fall into whatever priority system we already have, 13 which is probably based on the judgment of how bad 14 maintenance is required for -- for a County-maintained road 15 and so on, those kind of priority decisions that you make 16 every day. I don't see why we'd change for this purpose. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, see, generally on 18 this -- I mean, one that I was involved with, Lazy Valley, 19 which we started -- and it was -- and Len told me -- okay, 20 we did it wrong, basically; not the way we do things now 21 with road districts. But, the -- it was, like Len said, 22 okay, this could work into the budget in -- it was, like, a 23 year and a half. It was 18 months after everyone -- 24 everything was agreed, and it just sat there until he got it 25 into his project. Now, my question is, that for Road and 99 1 Bridge to take on a major construction project, some project 2 somewhere in the county is going to have to be deferred, 3 because they do a lot of work internally. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, but, I was 5 just -- I was just talking with Len and with Franklin at the 6 break. Either this week or next, before the public 7 hearing -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- takes place, we're 10 going to sit down and lay out alternatives for how this can 11 be done. Another way of doing it could be to put out formal 12 bids for this project, and have nothing to do with our 13 maintenance contracts and the kind of priority thing that 14 you're talking about. You know, we could put it out for a 15 separate bid. Now, the difference is -- is that we have to 16 do some additional engineering work, because you got to spec 17 something. We got to spec -- you've got have to have 18 drawings of where the road's going to go and different 19 contractors, that kind of thing, so there's engineering 20 work. We're going to kick that around and see what is the 21 best and fastest way, and I think by the time of the public 22 hearing, we'll be able to advise the Court on that. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: This -- another way, 24 possibly, of saying this, this could be handled as if it was 25 a development. 100 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We just do a contract and 3 someone else comes in and builds the road. You all inspect, 4 certify; it's not necessarily a project that has to be done 5 with our equipment and our crew. 6 MR. ODOM: I understand, but those 7 contractors -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Still has to be -- 9 MR. ODOM: -- are still -- one of my crews 10 are on these special projects. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But they have a 12 contract with you now. 13 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, I understand. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If they bid on another 15 contract, they've got to go get the wherewithal to perform 16 two contracts, and not one. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right, that 18 there's the accountability on their part. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's their lookout, 20 that's not our lookout, is what I'm saying. And, you might 21 very well judge that during the evaluation of their bids to 22 say, "How in the world are you going to do this project?" 23 when they've already got all kinds of work laid out on their 24 maintenance contract. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, if they don't 101 1 come bid, you just put it off till next year. 2 MR. ODOM: Well, then -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kick that around. I 4 don't think we need to spend a lot of time -- 5 MR. ODOM: We need to discuss this, because 6 it is a concern. As Commissioner Letz put it, you know, 7 it's availability and priorities and commitments that I have 8 to the Court on special projects. And, there is 4 miles -- 9 this is not a half a mile; this is 4 miles of solid rock. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: We appreciate your bringing 11 it to our concern. That's something we will have to work 12 with as we walk through the process. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I make the motion to 14 accept this, and we'll set a public hearing for -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: 24th. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I will make the 17 motion that we accept -- we accept the petition and set a 18 public hearing for the special meeting on the 24th of April, 19 2000 -- or for public hearing. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: At 10:00 a.m.? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: At 10 o'clock. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: April what? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: 24th. Moved by Commissioner 25 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 102 1 accept the petition regarding issuing road district tax 2 bonds by the Lake Ingram Estates Road District, and set 3 April 24th, Year 2000, at 10 o'clock a.m. for public hearing 4 thereon, in accordance with Chapter 1471 of the Texas 5 Government Code. Any further questions or comments? If 6 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 11 12, consider and discuss abandoning of Pecan Drive, Cypress 12 Park Subdivision. Commissioner Letz. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I kind of echo what 14 Commissioner Williams said a minute ago. I want to thank 15 you, Commissioner Griffin, for figuring out how to do 16 abandomnents, as well; saved me a whole lot of work. It's a 17 similar situation to what we've dealt with recently in some 18 other subdivisions. There is a road called Pecan Drive in 19 Cypress Park Subdivision, a small, old subdivision off 20 Highway 27. The road has never been built. The -- I guess 21 the strange part of this overall deal is these are basically 22 one-acre lots. They were all grandfathered. They all have 23 the -- you know, can have their own septic tanks on them. 24 They can meet the distance requirements, some really 25 imaginative things to be able to do that. 103 1 Part of this -- this one, Mr. Ressel has 2 several lots. It's being -- they want to replat it, but 3 part of the replatting whole deal is to get rid of this 4 road. And, the net effect is going to be -- it will be an 5 improvement on the lot size after it's replatted, but it's 6 still not going to meet our -- our current Subdivision 7 Rules. They're still going to be less than two and a half 8 acres. No way to get them, you know, up to a larger size. 9 But, the first step in this overall process is to go ahead 10 and abandon this road. The attorney representing Mr. Ressel 11 has gone out for signatures or petitions to vacate the 12 platted roadway. To date, I think there are 12 individuals 13 that own lots in that subdivision. All but one, we've 14 received letters back approving the abandonment. There's 15 one person we cannot find, and Commissioner Griffin and I 16 were talking about it earlier today. We're not real sure 17 how to handle one of these when you can't find somebody, but 18 we'll go through that process. 19 So, what we're trying to do right now is just 20 consider and discuss the abandonment of Pecan Drive. Then 21 the next agenda item will be to set a public hearing to do 22 that. And, we pretty much have all the information to go 23 forward on the public hearing at this time, so I'd make a 24 motion that we abandon Pecan Drive in Cypress Park 25 Subdivision. 104 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we have to have the 2 public hearing before we can actually formally do the 3 abandonment, so I think what your motion is, is to accept 4 the request from Mr. Ressel for consideration of abandonment 5 of Pecan -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Drive. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- Drive in Cypress Park 8 Subdivision. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I meant to 10 say, Judge. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 13 second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court consider the 14 request by Mr. Ressel to abandon Pecan Drive in Cypress Park 15 Subdivision. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor, 16 raise your right hand. 17 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: The next agenda item is to 21 consider and discuss setting a public hearing for the 22 abandonment of Pecan Drive in Cypress Park Subdivision. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion to set 24 the public hearing for April 24th at 10:30. Yours is at 25 10:00? We'll say 10 o'clock; that way we can just do them 105 1 right after one another. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, let's do 10:15. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10:15. Okay, 10:15. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 6 second by Commissioner Williams, that we establish a public 7 hearing for the abandonment of Pecan Drive in Cypress Park 8 Subdivision for April 24th, Year 2000, at 10:15 in the 9 morning. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor, 10 raise your right hand. 11 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. At 15 this time, if we -- if I could juggle with the agenda a 16 little, we have a representative of the City here, 17 Ms. Caffall, who'd like to talk to us about Item Number 26. 18 So, without any objection, let's go to Item Number 26, 19 consider and discuss proposed addition to the Community 20 Recycling Center. Megan? 21 MS. CAFFALL: Good morning. I've got my 22 Solid Waste hat on today. Every year the T.N.R.C.C. gives 23 our Alamo Area Council of Governments about $500,000 for 24 Solid Waste grants for source reduction and recycling or 25 local enforcement. The money comes from the Solid Waste 106 1 fees paid by landfill operators in Texas, and the City pays 2 about $40,000 a year, and I try and get least half of that 3 back every year, if not all of it, for grants for our -- for 4 our Recycling Center. I've been getting a grant each year 5 since 1994, and all the equipment and vehicles at the 6 Recycling Center are grant-funded. 7 The City of Kerrville and Kerr County, in the 8 last two years, met with the City of San Antonio, the San 9 Antonio Water System, and all the other entities in AACOG. 10 When the grant app's came out this last year, I sat down 11 with our operators and discussed what we thought we could do 12 to kind of put some more material through the center. Our 13 center is currently about maxed-out, as far as how much 14 material we can move through there in a given week. And, we 15 came up with the idea that if we had some additional space 16 so we could separate the two waste streams going through -- 17 we have kind of residential people that come in with their 18 household recycling, and we also have more commercial-type 19 users, or larger generators who come through with larger 20 loads of cardboard and other recyclables -- that we would 21 have some more space and maybe could get some more material 22 through there in the time that we have during the week. 23 At the time of the application, also -- these 24 come out on a fairly short period between when the 25 applications come out and when they're due back. I 107 1 overlooked the fact that if we added onto the Recycling 2 Center, I needed approval of the building owner, which, in 3 our agreement with the County for using the facility, the 4 County has to approve any additions or alterations to the 5 County-owned building. Also, the competition for these 6 grants is pretty tough. We generally get over a million and 7 a half worth of requests for that $500,000. So, the City 8 was awarded $40,000 for an addition to the Recycling Center. 9 The interlocal agreements that we sign each year that govern 10 the terms of the grant will be coming out in a month or so. 11 And, I'd like to present to the County, I guess, at this 12 late date here, the improvements that we propose to the 13 grant. 14 The addition would be the 30-by-40 addition 15 that you see on the left-hand side of the north elevation. 16 If you follow the existing roofline, it would be enclosed 17 with two 10-by-12 doors on either end so that we could have 18 another drive-through area for our larger generators. We 19 would keep our current two lines going through the covered 20 30-by-40 addition that we've put on the other side of the 21 building. We would be able to keep our equipment in the 22 same place that it is now and make an opening between the 23 existing building and the 30-by-40 addition, so that there 24 would be storage on -- on both sides of the drive-through 25 and we could process materials in the same place. The 108 1 building, of course, would have to go through our 2 Engineering Department and all the building processes that 3 any building would have to go through in the city. And, we 4 would come as close to matching the exterior as we can with 5 current materials available. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Megan, I know you're 7 competing with the jackhammer out there, but what did you 8 say the amount of the grant was? 9 MS. CAFFALL: $40,000. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $40,000. Is that 11 what the cost of this addition is? 12 MS. CAFFALL: I called a couple metal 13 building companies and got estimates to find out if that was 14 enough. When I bid something like this, if it -- I always 15 like to hedge my bets and have an additive alternate, or do 16 a base bid of probably a 20-by-40, with an additive 17 alternate of a 30-by-40, just so we don't have to rebid it 18 in case it does come in higher. The costs of construction 19 are going up daily. So, I'm hoping to get a 30-by-40, and 20 according to the estimates that I was given, that was 21 adequate. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is -- one of the 23 things that we're doing here today is the Commissioners 24 Court is going to agree to allow you to use 30-by-40 more 25 feet of new property? 109 1 MS. CAFFALL: No, sir. We have -- we have a 2 lease that covers the whole half a block. We did portion 3 off a small portion of that for the judicial districts, but 4 we -- the whole -- the whole lot is leased. Of course, we 5 would have to move the fence and enlarge the area, but that 6 whole half block is leased. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, good. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just for the record, this 9 expansion, including the relocation of the fence and all the 10 site preparation, would be at no expense to the County? 11 MS. CAFFALL: That is correct. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or the City? 13 MS. CAFFALL: Well, we'll have to -- the City 14 will probably spend some money to move the fence. I had 15 budgeted for that last year anyway, because we need more 16 room there, but with this grant we would be able to expand 17 the building. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll let them do 19 that. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 21 comments? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks good. I'd be kind 23 of concerned that it can be done for that amount of money, 24 but if we can get it done, great. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do I have a motion to ratify 110 1 the grant application and authorize the expansion of the 2 Community Recycling Center? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 6 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court ratify the 7 grant request to the Alamo Area Council of Governments and 8 approve the expansion of the Community Recycling Center, as 9 outlined by Ms. Caffall. Any further questions or comments? 10 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you. 15 MS. CAFFALL: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Megan. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We'll go back to the 18 regular order, unless anyone has something they'd like to 19 take up outside of the regular order? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. I understand we 21 have some information about the ballot from the Republican 22 County Chair. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. We'll go back 24 to -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we can go back to 111 1 that one. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- Item 8. 3 MS. DAVIS: I've talked to Attorney Paul Miles 4 in the legal department of the Secretary of State just now, 5 and he assured me that there is no prohibition for 6 appointing Mr. Hierholzer for a vacant seat, first of all. 7 And, second of all, he said with the Libertarian party, that 8 the candidate has to be certified 20 days after their 9 convention. Now, we have two notices that were posted on 10 the board -- Commissioners board for their convention. We 11 really do not know which date their convention was held. 12 One of these says that it was held on March 14th, which that 13 is the date, I think, it was supposed to have been held. 14 The other one says March the 18th. This one was not filed 15 with the County Clerk, and then it was not posted on the 16 date down here at the bottom. They said they posted it the 17 4th of March, and Jannett has a note here saying that it was 18 not posted until after March the 8th. So, they, in my 19 opinion, are not following the correct procedures. 20 But, nevertheless, if you want to go by the 21 certification of the candidate, it's 20 days after their 22 convention, but now we've got to figure out which day they 23 held their convention. It says that there were two 24 people -- the location is at Neighbors -- Neighbors Two was 25 where it was supposed to have been held. And, Kelly Scott 112 1 signed this as the County Chair of that party. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Marie, would you just 3 repeat for me what you said? Twenty days? 4 MS. DAVIS: Twenty days after their convention. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: After their convention 6 was when they -- 7 MS. DAVIS: But they have a day, Larry, when 8 they're supposed to have a convention, just like everyone 9 else. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 11 MS. DAVIS: And, I understand it should have 12 been March the 14th. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So, it would 14 be -- 15 MS. DAVIS: When the meeting was. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Technically, it would 17 be 20 days after the 14th. 18 MS. DAVIS: Would be their deadline to certify 19 their candidate. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that would be -- 21 and I'm asking the question about who -- who that's 22 certifying. That would be by the State Libertarian party? 23 MS. DAVIS: The Secretary of State would have 24 to certify that candidate, just like, you know, I have to 25 send a list in just like -- 113 1 MS. BAILEY: I had put a call into the State 2 Chair, and he has just called back my office. I was going 3 to go make a call to him right now. Perhaps I could answer 4 some of these questions after lunch -- or at least tell you 5 what he said; that may not answer the questions. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a good idea. Thank 7 you. Thank you, Marie. 8 MS. DAVIS: Thank you. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 14, consider and 10 discuss retaining the services of a professional space 11 planner to assist in allocation of ground floor space in 12 Courthouse Annex to existing and proposed offices and 13 agencies. Commissioner Williams. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In a recent 15 discussion I had, Judge, with Facility Use and Maintenance 16 Director Holekamp, he told me that he had been set upon by 17 several wanting space in the Annex. And, we have obviously 18 some needs down there. The County Attorney's office has a 19 need for additional space. J.P. 3 probably doesn't want to 20 see his place diminished. The County Treasurer has sent a 21 note to the Court on an earlier occasion about the need for 22 additional space. We have some thoughts in our own mind 23 about the -- the utilization of some of that space, and the 24 thought occurred to me that we should put this on the agenda 25 and discuss how better to plan the utilization of that 114 1 space. I haven't figured out how to fund it, and I don't 2 know that it isn't premature, but maybe -- but, by the same 3 token, we're getting closer and closer each day to the Annex 4 being completed, and when that happens we're going to have 5 to figure out how to utilize that space. I think that maybe 6 what we ought to consider doing would be to authorize, 7 perhaps, Mr. Holekamp to seek estimates from space planners 8 as to what the cost would be to take a look at that space 9 and figure out a workable plan and present that plan back to 10 us, and that's the basis of the proposal. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My feeling on it is -- 12 I'm glad you brought it up for another reason, which is 13 related, is that in our original plans, the Maintenance 14 Department was going to be housed out there, and we have 15 budgeted money, or -- in this overall plan to do some 16 finish-out work down there, which may not be necessary. It 17 may already be done, I don't know, but we may -- you know, 18 that may be something that we need to look into as to, you 19 know, get a credit back and tell them to stop doing that. 20 Considering other overruns that we've had on the project, 21 maybe we can get, you know, something back. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a possibility. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Maintenance may need 24 the full build-out that was originally anticipated down 25 there. But, one of the things was the Maintenance 115 1 Supervisor's office was planned to be built-out, and that -- 2 I would not think that would be -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true, and 4 that's changed. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's changed. So, 6 anyway, that's something we need to look at somehow. The 7 other side of it, to me, I think we're a little premature. 8 I think anything that's done -- I don't think we need the 9 same contractor. We really need to look at this in the 10 budget process as to -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I was going to ask the 12 same question. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can do that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- look at, once it's 16 done, figure out what the needs are from the various County 17 departments, and just do it through the budget process, 18 would be my recommendation. 'Cause we don't have any money 19 budgeted, and we're already pretty much over limits on that 20 project, in my personal feelings. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Holekamp? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: I Just -- there is one -- one 23 particular area there that I think that the Court, or 24 through my department, is going to have to be added. The 25 County Attorney's office, they -- the new attorney has come 116 1 on staff, I think, a week ago Monday, as I understand, and 2 there's really no office that he has to do his work. He's 3 in an open space right now where everybody walks in. And, 4 the County Attorney's office has indicated to me that there 5 is a need to find him a place where he can work and be -- 6 just not out there in the open. And, then, that -- that's 7 the immediate need, in my mind. I understand Commissioner 8 Letz' position, and I kind of agree with it from an overall 9 picture, but this particular item, I think, is something 10 that possibly will need to be addressed prior to that budget 11 year. And, I don't know where -- but I think the Court may 12 want to look at how they want to approach it, or to be able 13 to explain to the County Attorney's office that we won't be 14 able to do anything immediately. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's interesting, that he's 16 come to work, since we didn't fund him to come to work until 17 June, so we appreciate the donation of his services. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I still go back 19 to -- I mean, it wasn't planned in the budget, and I 20 don't -- I mean, they may be cramped, but we have a lot of 21 offices that have been cramped for many years. And, if 22 they're cramped in the County Attorney's office until we get 23 the time to, you know, really look at this, they're cramped 24 in the County Attorney's office. I just -- to me, that 25 isn't a driving concern to -- some of these need to be done 117 1 in the budget process. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We still have to know 3 how much it's going to cost us to do the process. What I'm 4 saying is, let Glenn go out, find out what's it's going to 5 cost us to tell us how to use that space. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: We would need that number for 7 the budget process anyway. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We won't know what we're 9 going to need to have done until -- 'till we know who's 10 going down there. As an example, if you put Juvenile 11 Probation and Adult Probation down there -- I'm just, you 12 know -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They need two different 15 access codes. They cannot use the same entry, as I 16 understand their rules, or something. So, I mean, 17 there's -- it's hard to know what to plan until -- or what, 18 you know, space you're going to need, how you're going to 19 need to divide up. I think it's just a big, open -- open 20 room with lighting in it, basically, the way we had the 21 architects -- my recollection is, the way it was going to be 22 finished out, except for the little area of the Maintenance 23 Department. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's all changed. 25 My understanding was we were going to do some limited finish 118 1 out, because the original plan was to take and move Ms. 2 Uecker's operation down there and then move it back. And, 3 she has negotiated a revised plan where she's not going to 4 have to move down there, so -- and those funds have been 5 taken out of the project and put into working around her. 6 So, my -- it was my understanding there's no finish out now 7 in that new space, other than, perhaps, for the Maintenance 8 Supervisor's office. I tend to think it's also a little bit 9 early; that -- that I think we need a clearer idea of what 10 we want to do down there before we, to a certain extent, 11 engage a space planner. We need to know who wants what, and 12 then we need to be able to make some kind of priorities. 13 I'm not sure we can effectively use a space planner simply 14 to send them down there and say, "Give us a plan" until we 15 can tell him, you know, we need a work closet for the 16 Maintenance Department and we need, you know, 1,200 square 17 feet for the County Treasurer's office. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the big issue, 19 is how much space allocation to each function. If you can't 20 tell the planner that, he doesn't have anything to go on. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think maybe, you know, in 23 order to help Mr. Holekamp, we need to send the word out 24 that if you desire some space in the Annex, do what the 25 Treasurer has done; give us a written request. And, the 119 1 more specific you can be as to how much you need, the better 2 off the Court will be in making that determination as to who 3 has what. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to volunteer my 5 services to work with Mr. Holekamp on that, to at least 6 compile the list of folks that desire to go down there, that 7 need more space. And then maybe even compile a couple of 8 more lists, or look at several different plans we can put 9 together and bring back here to you guys. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: If you volunteer, what can I 12 say? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can try "thank 14 you," or you can pay me. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Steak lunches would 17 work great. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No doubt about it, 19 we'll thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. No steaks, 21 though. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I 23 thank Commissioner Williams for bringing it up, because it's 24 time -- you know, the budget's right around the corner, and 25 this is something that we need to address in our next year's 120 1 budget, what we need to do with that space. It's funny, 2 when we started this project, we thought there was going to 3 be all this empty space. It's amazing; I can already tell 4 we're short of space. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Twenty requests for 6 that space, probably. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: As part of this 8 process, you know, the -- I know the federal government 9 has -- I think you might want to take a look at it for some 10 hints, but they have some space location guidelines, you 11 know, that for this kind of job you need a minimum of 205 12 square feet, and for that kind of job you need 463 feet or 13 something. Something where you can rationalize, rather than 14 who yells the loudest on -- on what -- how much space they 15 need. You can say, well, you know, that kind of -- that 16 kind of function that you've got requires this much. It may 17 save you some arguing, is what I'm getting at. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: I doubt it. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I doubt it, too. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll pass over it. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Item 15 is consider 22 and discuss update to the Court on Hill Country Youth 23 Exhibition Center Master Plan Committee negotiations with 24 Quorum Architects. Commissioner Williams. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Letz and 121 1 I met for a couple hours with a representative of Quorum, 2 Mr. Blankenship with Quorum Architects out of Fort Worth, 3 which was the firm the Court signed off on the 4 recommendation of the Master Plan Committee. And, I'm 5 pleased to report that we have an agreed upon price for 6 these services, which is $19,725, which falls squarely 7 within the -- the amount of money which is available to 8 proceed with this. We also have two other items that were 9 added as a result of -- of the discussions with 10 Mr. Blankenship that have to do with doing the job right. 11 And, he had identified a need for some additional services, 12 and I think that's contained in the next -- if we can, 13 Judge, call 16 and 17, they're both tied together. Item 17 14 comes up, as well. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll call Item 16, which is 16 consider and discuss expenditure of funds from planning 17 grant for survey and related items. Number 17 is consider 18 and discuss acquisition from Hill Country Cutting Horse 19 Association of 45 used horse stalls at the Hill Country 20 Youth Exhibition Center at the unit price of $200, total 21 cost of $9,000 to be taken from grant funds. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. We got them 23 all linked together. Let me pass out to the Court an 24 updated Master Plan timetable that came about from Quorum, 25 which illustrates the work that will take place and the time 122 1 frame in which it will be done. And, Quorum believes that 2 it can take -- do all the work within -- the scope of work 3 that Commissioner Letz and I insisted that they do, within a 4 full seven weeks, be ready to have a presentation in Week 5 Number 8. The other two items that were identified as -- as 6 necessary in conjunction with the study so that they can 7 proceed is the need for an accurate survey of County 8 property showing metes and bounds, topo, point elevations at 9 buildings, all utilities, easements, floodplain data, 10 zoning, road improvements, and so forth and so on. And, we 11 need the County Surveyor to do his portion of that, and Mr. 12 Voelkel tells me that can be accomplished for $2,500, and we 13 need a new aerial map of the -- of it. And, at the 14 recommendation of Voelkel, I've inquired of one of the 15 experts in the area, which is International Aerial Mapping 16 of San Antonio. Are you familiar with them, Larry? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Heard of them. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They have faxed me an 19 estimate of cost, and that estimate to do their piece of it 20 comes out to $2,655, all of which is to say we would expend 21 a total of $24,380 on the planning, which puts us within 22 $120 of the amount of dollars allocated. Commissioner Letz, 23 do you want to add anything to that? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only, I guess, 25 question is really, to me, is that price reasonable, Larry, 123 1 for the aerial photo? I will say it has to be done at a 2 certain elevation so that the scale is appropriate so it can 3 be used as an overlay; it's got to be at a 1-to-200 foot 4 scale. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not going to be cheap. 7 That's probably about right. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: About right? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reason -- I 10 inquired if anybody around the area can do it according to 11 these specifications. If not, we've got to go to San 12 Antonio. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's one of those where 14 there's specific requirements. It was, "You need to do it 15 this way." 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a firm that 17 Voelkel has worked with before; they highly recommend them. 18 MR. SANDLIN: Will that be an ortho-rectified 19 photo? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me? 21 MR. SANDLIN: Ortho-rectified, a photo with 22 ground coordinates imposed on it. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We don't like 24 profanity in here. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't do that here. 124 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll let you read the 2 letter; you can determine for yourself if it answers your 3 question. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why do you ask such a 5 question? Why? 6 MR. SANDLIN: Because of the cost. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. What I can't 8 figure -- I mean, Larry, couldn't you fly over there and let 9 me take my Kodak? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I was thinking the 11 same thing. We can do it for half price. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. We get 13 paid up front, though. 14 MS. LAVENDER: It's a good quote for the paper. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, Jonathan, do you 16 have anything else you want to add? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, but I'd make a -- on 18 15, there's no action required, just an update, right? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just an update, 20 right. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 22 authorize expenditure of up to $2,500 for a survey, and -- 23 what was it? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $2,655. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $2,655 for aerial photo. 125 1 Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would second that 3 motion. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 5 seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court authorize 6 expenditure of funds from planning grant for a survey not to 7 exceed $2,500, for an aerial photo not to exceed $2,655. 8 Any further discussion? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, 10 Judge. Although we had previously approved negotiations 11 with Quorum, and we knew that we had a limit of dollars for 12 their services to come within that limit, should we also 13 include the expenditure of $19,725 for Quorum, as well? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fine, I agree. That's 15 fine with that, but the comment I was going to add, from the 16 planning grant and budget dollars. Some of that should come 17 from what we have in our budget. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. $5,000 19 is our money and $20,000 -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's part of your 21 motion and second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: The motion now is that we -- 23 we authorize expenditure of funds from planning grant and 24 budgeted funds in the amount of not to exceed $2,500 for a 25 survey, not to exceed $2,655 for aerial photo, and not to 126 1 exceed $19,725 for the contract with Quorum Architects. Any 2 further discussion? If not -- yes, sir? Tommy? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Just a general question. 4 We're talking about this planning grant. I had -- I have 5 never seen the grant, as to whether or not there is supposed 6 to be special accounting procedures. I don't know what's 7 allowed as far as expenditures in the grant. The Treasurer 8 has to write -- is the one to expend the funds from the 9 grant. I mean, we're in -- we're in the dark. I mean, as 10 far as any knowledge whatsoever of this grant. And, I mean, 11 I can't see that we can authorize any expenditures without 12 somebody having some knowledge of -- of the language 13 that's -- that's in the grant. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we -- we did the grant 15 request and we got the money for this, so -- 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, I'm -- as far as the 17 Treasurer goes -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm not criticizing. I'm 19 just saying I -- you know, we -- let's go ahead and take 20 this action. Then Commissioner Williams and Commissioner 21 Letz, you guys get with the Auditor and go over it with him, 22 and we'll amend the motion to say "as authorized by the 23 grant," so that in the event that there is a determination 24 made that we may be outside the bounds, we haven't taken an 25 improper action here. But -- is that okay? 127 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that's fine. I just -- 2 you know, I don't -- 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a good point. Good 4 point. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to shed 6 one thought on it, Tommy, in response. The grant was for -- 7 for Master Plan Committee's use in planning and developing a 8 master plan. These things are necessary to develop the 9 master plan. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's get comfortable with it 11 before we do it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's probably -- this is 13 the first grant we've done with Peterson Foundation in some 14 time, so we need to make sure that the -- both the Treasurer 15 and the Auditor have any requirements from the foundation, 16 and that's easy for -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, they may have some of 18 their own requirements, as far as, you know, reporting or -- 19 or accounting for those funds that -- that we need to know 20 about up front before we start. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thea, do you have a comment? 23 MS. SOVIL: The letter we received from 24 Peterson Foundation on that grant is very specific on how it 25 was to be spent, and they outlined in -- outlined it in the 128 1 letter when we were awarded the grant. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Well, let's -- we'll 3 take the action, the expenditure of funds, as approved by 4 the grantee -- grantor, and then we'll let our Master Plan 5 people get with the Auditor afterwards and -- and go over 6 everything and make sure that we're within the bounds of our 7 authority on the grant. Okay? Any further questions or 8 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 9 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have we requested the 14 funds? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is sent with it? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They sent the money, 19 oh, yeah. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item 2.17, acquisition of 21 horse stalls. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This, too, was part 23 of the grant, additional funds to be allocated for the 24 purchase of the horse stalls. Without bothering the Court 25 with all the history of this issue, we've been there before. 129 1 We've done part of it; now we're going to do the rest of it. 2 In your packet is a proposed invoice for sale setting forth 3 the details, 45 horse stalls, used, located at the Hill 4 Country Youth Exhibition Center. And unit price is $200, 5 total $9,000. That, too, is included in the grant. I would 6 move that approval of that expenditure. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 9 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 10 authorize expenditure of a total of $9,000 to be used to 11 purchase 45 used horse stalls from the Hill Country Cutting 12 Horse Association, such funds to come from the grant awarded 13 for that purpose. Any further discussion? If not, all in 14 favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, with the 19 indulgence of the Court, I'd like to take up Item 2.24. 20 Chuck has been very patiently waiting. The item is to 21 consider and discuss appointing Chuck Brecher as the Kerr 22 County representative of Alamo Area Council of Governments 23 Solid Waste Advisory Committee. Meg Huddleston has, for the 24 last couple years, served as the County's representative on 25 the AACOG Solid Waste Advisory Committee. Because of her 130 1 full-time teaching position, she's no longer able to fulfill 2 those responsibilities. I talked with Glenn about whether 3 or not Chuck would be willing to serve. He went to Chuck, 4 and Chuck apparently is willing to represent the County on 5 the AACOG Solid Waste Advisory Committee. And, since he is 6 our Solid Waste Enforcement Officer, I think that's entirely 7 appropriate. Chuck, do you want to say anything at this 8 time? 9 MR. BRECHER: I'm just here to answer any 10 questions if you got any, but I'll do this. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Great, appreciate it. So 12 moved. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 15 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that Kerr County 16 Commissioners Court appoint Chuck Brecher as the Kerr County 17 representative to the Alamo Area Council of Governments 18 Solid Waste Advisory Committee. Any further questions or 19 comments? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One comment. I think 21 we have got pretty doggone good results out of the Solid 22 Waste effort that we initiated. But, we've given -- I think 23 we gave a very large job with very little resources to -- 24 for the folks who are having to do it, and I -- I believe 25 that, and since we're talking about Solid Waste in this 131 1 agenda item, I just think it's something we really need to 2 look at in the next budget cycle to strengthen, because 3 we've got a real problem county-wide in this area. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Corollary to that, 6 Commissioner -- I agree with you, and corollary to that, we 7 have a major problem in the people dumping trash on county 8 roads, and it's almost to the point that it's disgraceful in 9 some of our areas. And, I don't know how we're going to 10 deal with it, but I think we ought to figure out a way to 11 deal with it. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- the grant -- 14 the grant that we're -- the new grant, the second grant has 15 been strengthened some, has it not? Aren't we getting -- 16 getting any new equipment over and above -- is anybody out 17 there? Glenn, do this or something. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Sorry. I was -- I thought you 21 weren't finished. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know 23 where the finish point is. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, yes, and I think 25 Ms. Huddleston -- I mean Megan Caffall, who is quite an 132 1 asset on the Solid Waste program, is on that committee, and 2 we've had a little bit of a problem this year with the 3 administration at AACOG being able to get our contract back. 4 We're working off the County funds right now in our budget. 5 We are -- they said that they're all approved and we're 6 going to be getting them probably this week or next, but I 7 would encourage input from the Commissioners Court starting 8 this -- in our budget process year -- process this year as 9 to some areas that they wish to enhance the Solid Waste 10 program. 11 Other than that, I think Commissioner Griffin 12 brought up a comment about some -- or Commissioner Williams, 13 just about the trash on the side of the roads. Those are 14 things that we can -- we can kind of think out how we want 15 to address them. And, if it takes funds to set it up, 16 drop-off places and that sort of thing where trash can be 17 dumped in Center Point, whatever, that there is some funds; 18 there's a good possibility we can go out for that type of 19 equipment to enhance it. This last year, because of the 20 short time frame we were given, we had to get a grant in in 21 about a week's time because of the notification process. 22 But, I would encourage the Court to -- to get with 23 Mr. Brecher or myself. We'll sit down and talk about it, 24 and there is some money through the T.N.R.C.C. that we can 25 go after, and it sure beats the local taxpayers. 133 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Excellent. Thank you, Glenn. 3 Motion has been made and seconded. All in favor, raise your 4 right hand. 5 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Quickly, 9 before we break, lets take up Item 2.22, since Mr. Sandlin 10 is here, which is consider and discuss requesting an update 11 from 911 at our April 10th Commissioners Court meeting. 12 Commissioner Letz? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just struck me several 14 weeks ago that we haven't heard from 911 in a long time, 15 other than I know that the process is working through the 16 City. And, I've talked to Larry about it, and I think I 17 talked to T. also about this decision. Also looking at, 18 hopefully, approval on the agenda. I think it's something 19 we need to keep abreast of. I know when I was running for 20 -- campaigning, that continues to be foremost on the minds 21 of many of the public, which makes it foremost on my mind. 22 And, I just think we need to schedule, you know, a 23 presentation from either T. or our representative or both as 24 to where we are, and get a -- an updated timeline as to what 25 it looks like for the next months ahead. 134 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That should be 2 April 10th, by the way. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. And, 4 April 10th -- if April 10th doesn't work for the City, it 5 can be April 24th. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the 24th would 7 be the best time to do it, because from all accounts, if -- 8 if the sun, moon, and stars stay in their same orbits, it 9 actually may occur that by then, the City will have signed 10 off on the guidelines, as amended. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If everything stays 12 in line, right? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If all of the planets 14 stay in line, we've got a number of things that are moving 15 in that direction, it seems, so -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You wouldn't want to 17 stake your life on it. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hope springs eternal. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with 20 going on the -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Make it the 24th, 22 though. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 24th is fine, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Be a good time to 25 catch up. 135 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Sandlin, do you think you 2 could make yourself available on the 24th? 3 MR. SANDLIN: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that one of the 5 things that -- you know, a timetable, and also the duplicate 6 road name issue, something that we really need to get moving 7 on and let -- you know, figure out how we're going to handle 8 it and get that behind us. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, April of 10 this year? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, 2000. 12 April 24th of 2000. 13 MR. SANDLIN: Would this be, like, 9 o'clock, 14 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock? Do y'all got a bunch of stuff that 15 day? Or afternoon or -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: You know, why don't you just 17 call me with what you think would be better for you? We can 18 certainly set it at 1:30, or we can try to work it in, say, 19 at 11:00. 20 MR. SANDLIN: Okay. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sometimes it's easier to set 22 it at 1:30, because, like today, we don't know what's 23 necessarily going to happen, but -- 24 MR. SANDLIN: I understand. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't you just get with 136 1 me, and we'll work out a time that's suitable for everybody. 2 MR. SANDLIN: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, before we 4 break, could we back up? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I knew you were going to say 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could we back up to 7 8 and 8 for just one minute? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We've been backing up all 10 morning. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Let's see, 12 quickly, what Ilse's found out. 13 MS. BAILEY: I just spoke on the telephone to 14 the State Chair for the Libertarian party. His name is 15 Jeffrey Neil. He said that his position is that the 16 party -- the State party structure has no power to disavow 17 someone's affiliation with them or to disavow someone's 18 ability to be placed on the ballot as their nominee, unless 19 they are disqualified for some reason that's -- that's 20 demonstrable, like age limit, nationality, felony 21 convictions, that sort of thing. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is posting proper 23 notice -- 24 MS. BAILEY: Well, he was saying the same 25 thing that I mentioned before, which is that in order to 137 1 establish whether, in fact, proper notice had failed to have 2 been posed would require some kind of an official action, 3 probably by a district judge, which would require a lawsuit 4 to be filed to make that determination. 5 He did make a statement which I wanted to 6 repeat to you, 'cause I thought it was particularly 7 interesting. I was expressing to him what was going on in 8 the court process, and how the -- my understanding of what's 9 going on is that there's an attempt to make absolutely sure 10 that we don't taint the process, and that it really has 11 nothing to do with the individuals involved. And, he said 12 that he was pleased and surprised, because we aren't -- he 13 said, "We are not used to people acting in a principled 14 manner, and it sounds as though your Commissioners Court is 15 trying to do the very principled thing." I thought that was 16 particularly interesting, but he also said that, in his 17 opinion, given that the Libertarian candidate had not yet 18 even officially been placed on the ballot, that if the 19 Republican candidate were seen as the viable candidate, he 20 didn't see much of an issue and he didn't have a problem 21 conceptually with the Court going ahead and appointing the 22 only candidate who is actually on the ballot. 23 You know, he said he wasn't trying to make an 24 opinion one way or the other, but just as far as his 25 concern, he viewed it that that person's not yet on the 138 1 ballot, and so, while he says he doesn't have the 2 position -- he doesn't have the ability to say yes, that 3 person is going to be our candidate, or no, we're not going 4 to allow that person to be our candidate, he also said that 5 he didn't see why the candidate who does exist on the ballot 6 right now would not be appointed. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Let's stand in 9 recess, try to get back at 1:15 and perhaps knock out a 10 couple of the less controversial issues before we have a 11 chance to talk to Mr. Stoddard. So, we'll be in recess 12 until 1:15. 13 (Recess taken from 12:03 p.m. to 1:15 p.m.) 14 - - - - - - - - - - 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. It's 1:15 on 16 Monday afternoon, March 27th. We will reconvene this 17 special meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 18 Mr. Griffin, you'd had a request to take up the burn ban, 19 but I don't see Mr. Sandlin back, so -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't see 21 Mr. Sandlin back. We can either -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's just take it in order. 23 If he comes back, we'll see if we can fit it in. Next item 24 on the agenda is 2.18, consider and discuss approving the 25 request of Mike Prudi Peters to designate road identified as 139 1 E-1145 emanating from the end of Fall Creek Road, Precinct 2 2, to East Oso Way. Commissioner Letz -- Commissioner 3 Williams, I'm sorry. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is probably the 5 first of many -- or it may not be the first, but one of a 6 bunch I'm sure we're going to get. These folks have been 7 living in their home for a long time, and have been going 8 through this maze, only never to find the -- the exit so 9 that they can get a name approved for their road. U. S. 10 Postal Service won't deliver their mail; they don't have an 11 approved name. In the packet is the application that's been 12 signed off on finally by 911; doesn't conflict with 13 anything. And, they spoke with Franklin, requesting the 14 Court to approve the name of their private road so they can 15 get mail delivery to East Oso Way. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are they the only ones who 17 live on this road? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oso Way East or East Oso 21 Way? 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's another one of 23 those that -- you know, here's one I don't know how 24 critical -- on this one, how critical it is. If they're 25 willing to wait 30 days, we may have the guideline issue 140 1 resolved, and we would not have to then go through a 2 renaming. But, if it's critical that this be done now, we 3 can go ahead and do it, and then go through a name change 4 later. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tell them not to get 6 anything printed. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Don't put any signs 8 up; they can save themselves a few bucks. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The recommendation of 10 911 says, No conflicts exist with, quote, Oso Way, unquote, 11 in the east region. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. And, that was 13 in accordance with the existing guidelines. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, we sort of have a 16 choice here, and I think we can go either way. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Couldn't we take action 18 approving the name of Oso Way with the appropriate 19 geographic designation? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: As, you know, determined or 22 later amended. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be my 24 alternate suggestion. Approve Oso Way, and when we report 25 back, tell them you're going to get your east designation 141 1 probably as a suffix, but at the moment, the Court -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: As a suffix instead of a 3 prefix, which they had thought about having. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, I would 5 amend the motion to approve the name of Oso Way by Mike and 6 Prudi Peters, and replace the E-1145 designation for the 7 private road they live on in Precinct 2. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 11 approve the request of Mike Prudi -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mike and Prudi. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mike and Prudi Peters to 14 designate the road identified as East 1145 emanating from 15 the end of Fall Creek Road in Precinct 2 to Oso Way, with 16 either the prefix or suffix of "East" depending upon the 17 applicable guidelines. Any further discussion? If not, all 18 in favor, raise your right hand. 19 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item 2.19, 23 consider and discuss what steps must be taken to remove the 24 colonia designation from the unincorporated town of Center 25 Point and remove the same. 142 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we wait till the 2 County Attorney comes back in the room? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure, absolutely. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item 2.20, consider and 6 discuss implementation of the new burn ban system, 7 procedures for implementation, and current status. 8 Commissioner Griffin or Letz. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Want to go first? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. I put it on the 11 agenda mainly because I had very bad luck, I guess, for lack 12 of another term, of getting in touch with the Judge whenever 13 I wanted to lift the ban. And, I started thinking about it 14 as to, I really don't see a reason for the Judge to approve 15 it. For me, the procedure is fine; let the Commissioner do 16 it or not do it. One time -- I mean, they were just -- just 17 by chance that he wasn't around, and considering it happened 18 three times in a row, it's probably going to happen more, so 19 to me, I'd just recommend that we change the procedure for 20 the Commissioners who want to get rid of the burn barn in 21 their precinct, they can do it by their own signature. That 22 was my only comment. And then -- and maybe some other -- 23 Larry Griffin has sort of an update; I think we probably 24 ought to address that issue first. And, the other -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: See, what the thought 143 1 is, I mean, we -- what we did was sort of modeled our 2 process on Bandera County's, but -- but they made theirs up 3 too, you know, so -- so, I mean, that's not necessarily how 4 we'd have to do it. I think it's -- it's certainly up to 5 the judgment of the Court. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other part of it 7 is -- and I don't know how we do this, but this -- this 8 procedure, other than maybe just by agreement. It seemed to 9 be very confusing to the public as to whether there were or 10 were not burn bans, and part of the problem was that I may 11 have lifted it at 9 o'clock or 10 o'clock, and Buster made 12 his at 1:30, and they're all coming off at different times. 13 If there's some way that we can have a standard -- if we're 14 going to do it for a day, start at 10 o'clock on that day 15 or -- and it goes for a definite 48 or 72 hours. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me go through a 17 little bit of the logic that we went through in trying to 18 get it set up. And, realize, this is a work in progress, so 19 we can certainly make improvements, just like the approval 20 process. If there's a way we can make it better, that's the 21 way to do it. The thought was this: When we are suspending 22 a burn ban, the idea is to get the ban off, because it 23 started raining or it's raining right now or it's just 24 finished raining or it rained last night, and the idea was 25 to get the burn ban off as fast as you can. So, what we -- 144 1 the thought was, under our current procedure, is that the 2 burn ban officially is off the minute the Judge signs it 3 under the current. 4 Under the alternative which you're talking 5 about, as soon as -- as soon as the Commissioner would sign 6 it, it would be off at that point, so that you don't put 7 that edict out at 7 o'clock in the morning to start at 8 10 o'clock; you've just lost the three best hours of burning 9 you're ever going to have. So, we want to get it off 10 immediately and establish a time that it's -- that that 11 suspension will expire, based on the best data; talking to 12 fire chiefs, weather forecast, and so on, after you've 13 consulted with them. So, that's the thought, is to get it 14 off as fast as you can and do that -- have that at some time 15 certain. 16 Now, what I was thinking about it, after you 17 raised some issues about that, and then over the weekend we 18 had a couple -- or last Thursday, I guess it was, we invoked 19 couple of suspensions. Some had start times. The ones I 20 did did not have start times, 'cause I wanted it as soon 21 as -- as the Judge signed it, I wanted it to be off. So, I 22 didn't put a start time in the future. And, that got me to 23 thinking about it, and one thing we could do is when the 24 suspension is signed, have everybody -- and if it's -- no 25 matter if it's the Judge or a Commissioner, you just sign it 145 1 and put the date and time that you signed it. That, then, 2 becomes the official document for posterity; that this is 3 when that burn ban was suspended, and that it expires 4 whenever you say in the -- in the -- in the memo. So -- or 5 letter, however that's done. So, that should work, I think, 6 to remove any question about when it started, because when 7 it's signed you put a date and time there. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's good. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's part of the 10 problem. The other part, as we well know, has to do with 11 notification, some people who are concerned about whether 12 it's on or whether it's -- or whether it is suspended. Last 13 week, on a Thursday afternoon, I suspended the burn ban in 14 Precinct 2. In middle of the afternoon, the Judge signed it 15 to be effective Friday morning, all day Friday, and all day 16 Saturday, and go off on Sunday. I picked up the paper on 17 Friday afternoon in my driveway, and it says "Burn Ban in 18 Effect," when in fact it was suspended. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Two and three were 20 transposed. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And on the internet, 22 the error was just the other way around. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Wasn't an error. The 24 internet was right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Turned out Jonathan's 146 1 was wrong -- mine was right and Jonathan's was wrong. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mine was right, but I 3 couldn't get ahold of the Judge. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The web site is always 5 right. Unfortunately, somebody transposed Precinct 2 and 3; 6 that's exactly what happened. 7 MS. LAVENDER: I'm sure I did it. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Guilty. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was trying to -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me take the blame. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's just one of 12 those -- 13 MS. LAVENDER: Okay. Buster did it. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Buster did it. That's 15 just one of those things, a transposition of 2 and 3, that 16 caused this, and that's all. And, those things are going to 17 happen. I mean, if you've got a responsive, quick system. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which makes the 19 public more confused and angrier. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Exactly. And it's 21 just something -- you've got to be careful. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, I don't see 23 that the notification thing is -- I think this telephone 24 thing, if we can really get the word out what that telephone 25 number is. I call it all the time just to make sure they 147 1 updated it and watch it work. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And you should. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it a lot. But, 4 the issue in that news article about "Where in the world do 5 I live? What precinct am I in?" This, to me is, a problem. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have you looked at the 7 website recently? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, and it shows. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. What we've done 10 is that, off the burn ban status page, it says, "Don't know 11 what precinct you're in?" question mark, "Click here." 12 MS. SOVIL: Work in progress. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What's that? 14 MS. SOVIL: Work in progress. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have you tried it? 16 MS. SOVIL: No, I haven't tried it. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It said that was 18 coming, and now it's there. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw it. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You click on that, it 21 goes over and says "Click here" for number one. This is -- 22 you just go down the list. Click here for a map of the 23 county precincts. Click on that, and it goes to a map which 24 has the precinct boundaries. And if you say, Well, 25 obviously, I live right in the heart of 4 or 2 or 3, that's 148 1 good enough. If that doesn't work, number two says, Look at 2 your voter registration card. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because the first 5 digit in your voting precinct is the precinct you reside in. 6 But, be careful that where you're burning is where -- 7 there's also a little disclaimer there; be careful because 8 where you're burning is where you reside in this case, 9 'cause you may -- you know, if you own property in Precinct 10 4, just because you reside in Precinct 2, Precinct 2 is 11 still on. And then, third, it says if all other attempts 12 have failed, call the Road and Bridge Department, with an 13 adequate explanation of how to get to where the property in 14 question is. They should be able -- Road and Bridge 15 Department can help you determine what precinct you're in. 16 I don't know if we can do a whole heck of a lot more than 17 that, except we have talked about, in the future, getting 18 phone -- the phone company to send out precinct information 19 on a map as a mailout; just include it in the phone bills, 20 'cause everybody that generally is in the precinct -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both phone companies? 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, all the phone 23 companies. All the phone companies involved in the county, 24 and ask them to put that as a mailout so that people can 25 look and see the same -- essentially the same map that's 149 1 online. But, I think that -- you know, that's -- that's 2 pretty complete. And the map -- we may play with that a 3 little bit. And, we've got some other issues; maps, and 4 we've got a boundary issue in Precinct 2 or 3 -- I think 5 it's between 2 and 3, that apparently the record says one 6 thing and the map -- and the -- and the actual -- there may 7 be a difference in the line somewhere. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's on Lane Valley. 9 And, evidently, what it is, the -- what was filed with the 10 Secretary of State is one thing. Secretary of State? Is 11 that right, T.? 12 MR. SANDLIN: Secretary of State, and 13 somebody through the Justice Department somewhere. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. With the -- the 15 boundaries that were approved are one thing; however, voters 16 cards are something different than what was approved by the 17 map. So -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We need to straighten 19 that out. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't affect a whole 21 lot of people. It's probably, you know, 20 families that 22 I'm aware of on Lane Valley, and there are, T. says, about 23 three discrepancies on the map, but they're not major. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I think we're -- 25 we're pretty close on being able to have somebody get that 150 1 information that's online and be able to figure out pretty 2 easily what precinct you're in. And, particularly Number 3 3 in there; that if all else fails, call Road and Bridge 4 Department, give them the direction of where your property 5 is, and they can track it on their map, and they should be 6 able to tell you. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Larry, how quickly 8 after any Commissioner suspends it in his precinct does the 9 notification get put out on the -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: As soon as we can get 11 the word right now to T., as soon as he can change that 12 from -- remotely from wherever he is. He's got access to 13 that recorder and he can do it. Now, the procedure that -- 14 we're, again, a work in progress. We'd like to get this 15 down to where all it takes is a fax to the right fax machine 16 that's in the Dispatch Center, and there are some scripts 17 that T. has already prepared for the dispatcher that's on 18 duty, so that any time you get a change, this is the script 19 you read. Precinct 2 is off, on, so on. And -- and those 20 scripts sound pretty good, if it's what I -- T.? 21 MR. SANDLIN: What I've worked out at the 22 police department, if I can get the fax in, or we -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could you step up to 24 the -- 25 MR. SANDLIN: Oh, I'm sorry. 151 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So folks can hear you. 2 MR. SANDLIN: T. Sandlin, 911 District. What 3 we've worked out with the police department, since that's 4 where our PSAP is, our Public Safety Answering Point, if the 5 fax will come to either them or to me -- preferably both, so 6 that we have a chance at it -- as soon as I or the dispatch 7 supervisor, Mr. Aycock, gets that, we'll immediately change 8 the recording, and that way it's not going through too many 9 hands and it -- it keeps it out of the dispatcher's hands. 10 And, also, then I or someone at my office will, via the 11 pager, update the various fire departments through that 12 notification procedure. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That word goes out 14 almost immediately to all the fire chiefs in the county. 15 Any time there's a change, that gets broadcast. It goes to 16 all of the law enforcement agencies. 17 MR. SANDLIN: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All channels, all 19 officers immediately. 20 MR. SANDLIN: The police department, the 21 County, and Road and Bridge. I believe it was last Friday, 22 I got them some updated precinct maps and a P.D.F. for -- 23 it's not the GIS system, but they can look around and if 24 someone tells them what street they're on, they can more or 25 less tell them what precinct they're in, so that they have 152 1 that available also. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: T., when that goes out, 3 do you know if it goes out to surrounding counties at all, 4 any of that information? Like, Kendall County, mainly the 5 Comfort Fire Department? 6 MR. SANDLIN: We try to keep the Comfort Fire 7 Department up-to-date. They're not on our paging system, 8 but we have a couple of numbers that we call to let them 9 know, too. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about Bandera 11 Volunteer Fire Department? Bear Creek? 12 MR. SANDLIN: Pipe Creek area, whenever -- 13 when we can get ahold of someone down there, we let them 14 know, also. And, some of the guys in Harper have purchased 15 their own pagers; they get the notification, too. We're 16 working on -- there's some other outlying areas that want to 17 get on the pager system, and I don't have the funds for it, 18 but I have provided that they can get that number if they 19 can provide the pagers. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Back to the 21 uniform -- the time. Are you proposing that we -- it be a 22 uniform, set time that if any of us -- no, you're not? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. Because, the 24 thing is, before you will -- or the Judge will approve a -- 25 before you would request a suspension of the burn ban or 153 1 approve it, if you had the authority, you will have already 2 talked to your fire chiefs. That's part and parcel of the 3 process. You've talked with them first. If you don't have 4 their consensus, I don't -- I'm certainly -- if I don't have 5 unanimity, almost, I'm not going to go for a suspension. 6 But -- so you've already talked with them. The only people 7 you're trying to get the word out to is the public. And, to 8 do that, there's no need to have a start time, as long as 9 you've documented on the document where you've approved the 10 suspension, the date and time. I was talking with T. about 11 this yesterday. Because we want to get the suspension over 12 as fast as you can; you want to get the word out as fast as 13 you can so people can start burning right now, 'cause this 14 is the best -- when it comes off that ban is the best time 15 to start burning. 16 MR. SANDLIN: Generally speaking, let's say 17 the Judge has to approve it. Usually that's not going to 18 occur till, say, after 9:00 -- nine-ish in the morning. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're looking at having 20 just the Commissioner do it, not having the -- at least 21 hopefully, that's -- and part of the reason is -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. We haven't 23 heard from him on the subject. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the reason, it's 25 better from Larry's, as well as my -- Larry and I live so 154 1 far away, you know, it's -- it's an hour later just for us 2 to get here, basically. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I've done mine by 4 e-mail and fax, and we could do it on a fax system. I mean, 5 sign it, fax it in. That's passed the legal test many 6 times, that -- so you can get a copy, as long as he has 7 signed the original and faxed it back to you. But, you can 8 do the same thing also; you can sign a note, if you had that 9 authority, fax it to -- to the Dispatch Center, and it's a 10 done deal. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And right now, you 13 need to get the word to me too, 'cause I'm updating the web 14 site. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was part of 16 my -- anticipating my question. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: At some point, we hope 18 we've got a system, you know, where we've got a -- probably 19 got a -- I hope, a good geek, or I've started calling them a 20 good "Stuart." You know, Stuart, the Ameri-Trade 21 commercial. "Come in here, Stuart." 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Shouldn't we also fax 23 it in here to Thea? Because we've got to announce -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is where we're 25 going to maintain the record copy for us. The record copy 155 1 with the date and -- date and time and signature. That's 2 all it should take. 3 MR. SANDLIN: That's got faxes, e-mails, my 4 pager number on it. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, hey, as soon as I 6 hear it, it takes me about ten seconds, unless the 7 computer's off for some reason, but I can update the -- the 8 online site in seconds. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Computer's never off. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Never. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thea? 12 MS. SOVIL: Can the person that has worked 13 with this all week long -- I have a few little things. I'd 14 like to see that it all go off at the same time. Set a 15 standard of 7 o'clock in the morning or 3 o'clock in the 16 afternoon; everybody's goes off at the same time. If you're 17 going to implement it by just the Commissioners signing it, 18 how am I going to know that if you don't send me a copy so 19 that it can go to the newspaper and can go to -- 'cause I've 20 been faxing it to the newspaper, I've been faxing it to 911, 21 I've been calling Larry and faxing it to Larry. And if you 22 each individually do it, that's wonderful, except how am I 23 going to know about it? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, you should. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have to. 156 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You should get a copy 2 of it. But, however, part of this whole process is to get 3 you out of that business so you don't have to deal with it; 4 that we get it to the newspapers and to 911 -- or to the 5 hotline, not to 911. We -- we've got to get it to the 6 hotline and we get it on the website and we get it to the 7 media. What's the fastest way to do that? You still got to 8 have a copy, anyway, for record purposes, so you ought to 9 get it at the same time anyway. But, what really ought to 10 happen is -- is that should be -- I think the -- the 11 newspaper -- I think one newspaper, the Daily Times, is 12 updating this information -- their information off the web 13 site now, so as long as it gets on the web site, they're 14 going to get it. 15 And -- and 911 is a little bit -- I shouldn't 16 say 911; we don't want to confuse the public on that. It 17 just happens to be that that's where the recorder is. But, 18 to get on the hotline, they just need to get that 19 information the fastest way possible. Right now, we're 20 telling T., or he gets it off the web site himself, and -- 21 if he wants to, but most of the time, we're getting him, 22 'cause he wants a copy of that official notice, the 23 letter -- the memo. He wants a copy of that for his 24 purposes, and I think that's good. So, we need to refine 25 the process, but the thing is to get the word out as quick 157 1 as we can, as fast as we can, and have it correct. 2 MR. SANDLIN: The only comments I've gotten 3 over the last few days -- and if you get a chance to put it 4 in the paper, tell them not to call me. I don't do the burn 5 ban, I just report it. I have got calls, "Is Commissioner 6 so-and-so going to lift the burn ban this morning"? I don't 7 know; call your Commissioner." Something that I heard back 8 from my chiefs and several other people was -- again, and I 9 understand the concern that, you know, we don't want to 10 lose -- we may only have half an inch of rain that gives us 11 a good soaker, and we don't want to lose four hours of burn 12 time between 6 a.m. and 10 a.m., if that's possible. But, 13 still, the calls I got all this weekend, especially on 14 Saturday and Sunday, were -- they were different people 15 calling. "I listened to the hotline; it says so-and-so. 16 But it also said so-and-so in Precinct 3 goes off 17 yesterday." And, I -- "Okay, do you know where Precinct 3 18 is"? Yes, I'm in Precinct 2". Okay. Well, burn ban's 19 off." They're a little confused about the time issue, and 20 that's the only advantage I could see there, is if we had 21 some type of uniform time. But, I also understand that, you 22 know, we don't want to set it 3 o'clock in the afternoon, 23 because by 3 o'clock in the afternoon, we may have lost some 24 good -- quote, unquote -- "burn time." 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We -- no reason we 158 1 can't try to see how it works. I would suggest, in that 2 case, that we use 7 o'clock in the morning. And, the reason 3 I say that is because of the inputs I got from the chiefs 4 and in Precinct 4, was that, hey, it's good to have it 5 expire in the morning so that somebody -- if they want to 6 get a fire started, they're generally going to be starting 7 the fire at 6:30 or, you know, right at the time it expires, 8 and at least the wind's down at that point, and so there's 9 less likelihood of that fire getting out of control than 10 there would be if you had a -- if you had somebody hurrying 11 to make a 3:30 in the afternoon time. They're liable to 12 start it when the wind's blowing 25 miles an hour. So, I 13 said, okay, 7 o'clock. That's what I've been using. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 7 o'clock is good. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's when my chiefs 16 told me to do it. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 7 o'clock a.m. is 18 good. 19 MR. SANDLIN: And I have one question I'm 20 relaying from the chiefs and the fire departments. Let's 21 say that the burn ban in Precinct 1 went off at 7 o'clock in 22 the morning, hypothetically, and someone went out and set 23 their brush pile at 6:30, and the fire department gets a 24 call of a brush fire at 7:30. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'd say we use our 159 1 heads. 2 MR. SANDLIN: Now, this last -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a judgment 4 call. That's a judgment call, your opinion. 5 MS. SOVIL: Judgment call for the Sheriff's 6 Department? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Between the Sheriff's 8 Department and the Commissioner, I think, of that precinct, 9 and what the fire chief says. What kind of a deal was it? 10 Was this something that the guy or person goes out and uses 11 four 55-gallon drums of high-octane fuel to try to get 12 something burned up before he gets found out or whatever? 13 You know, that would -- that would be true with any burn 14 ban. That would be true with any burn ban. If a guy went 15 out and started it at 6:30 or -- or 9:30 in the morning, and 16 we came in here in court and put a burn ban on at 10:00, 17 what do you do in that case? Well, you try to do the right 18 thing. What we're trying to do is build a system where 19 people don't mind abiding by the law, because it's 20 responsive and it makes sense. And -- and that's the -- 21 that's the goal of it. So, we -- I think we ought to try 22 7 o'clock in the morning as sort of a standard thing. We 23 need to work out the deal about authority to do this. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're going to 25 have it -- or you're talking about having it all stop at 160 1 7 o'clock in the morning, but they start as soon as you do 2 it? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: When you sign it. But 4 sign and date -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sign -- right. Sign it, 6 date it, and you have to get it to Thea. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me tell you how -- 8 well, we don't need to go into that. 9 MR. SANDLIN: Would it be better -- I'm just 10 asking for input here. You know, on the ones that we had a 11 start time -- I think Bill's started on Saturday, and we put 12 the announcement on Friday that it will start Saturday -- 13 that it will start Friday on Saturday -- Friday. That was 14 somewhat confusing to some folks. Would it be better, at 15 least on what I'm doing, the recording -- the scripting for 16 the recording on that, just to say the burn ban is suspended 17 in Precinct 3 until 7 a.m. Thursday morning? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what Larry's 20 suggesting, and that's fine; I like that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Instead of setting a 23 start time, making it immediately when you say, "Let's go." 24 That's right. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. That's 161 1 when it's signed; the signature has a date and time, and 2 that's when the suspension starts. Now, the deal is get to 3 get the word out as fast as you can so people can burn. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How does the rest of the 5 Court feel about only having the Commissioner sign it? In 6 other words, two of you down there haven't said much on that 7 issue, anyway. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll go along with the 9 Commissioner thing. And, actually, my starting times, I 10 try -- you know, I tried to figure this thing out. I tried 11 to work -- I thought, well, Fred won't get to -- he's in 12 juvenile court; he's not going to be out of there till 13 10:17, so I'm going to put on here it starts at 10:17. See, 14 that was my thinking. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Dilemma. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- but I -- I 17 haven't figured out yet why we've -- do you want to be in 18 that thing or what? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: You guys put me -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what you 21 desire? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, you guys put me in this, 23 I didn't. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do I hear a motion? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that we 162 1 modify our procedures so that the -- only the Commissioner 2 has to approve suspending the burn ban, and that the 3 conclusion of the burn barns will all be at 7 o'clock of the 4 appropriate morning. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that the 6 signatures will be dated and have a time code. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Starts immediately? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And immediately provide 9 it to the Administrative Assistant. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. I'll second 11 that motion. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 13 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we amend the burn ban 14 procedures to delete the requirement that the County Judge 15 approve the lifting of the burn ban by Commissioner, and 16 also to require that each burn ban suspension will cease at 17 7 o'clock a.m. on the appropriate morning, as designated in 18 the lifting announcement. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You were paying 20 attention, weren't you? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I can get out of this. Any 22 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right 23 hand. 24 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 163 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we have posted 5 for 1:30 Agenda Item Number 28, which is consider and 6 discuss the status of and completion schedule for the 7 Courthouse Annex renovation. Mr. Stoddard, do you want to 8 walk us through this? 9 MR. STODDARD: Do you want me to walk you 10 through it? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're the contractor, we're 12 not. I can set a completion schedule, but I don't think 13 you're going to be able to meet it, so why don't you tell us 14 what you think we're headed for? 15 MR. STODDARD: Okay. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 MR. STODDARD: Okay. I thought Keith Longnecker 18 was going to take care of this for me, but I suppose he's 19 not, and so then I was going to try to answer questions. 20 MR. LONGNECKER: You're the one that got 21 summoned in here, not me. 22 MR. STODDARD: Oh, okay. Well, I think we 23 presently -- it's going to take me a minute to get into this 24 thing. But, as you well know, we've started trying to get 25 your ramp over here on the west side up and going so we can 164 1 get the elevator in. But, unfortunately, I think we've 2 already ran into some dilemmas in there, but anyway, let me 3 go on. They -- I think right now we're scheduled -- I may 4 need a little help from the superintendent, because he 5 handles it more straight on. Frank, what are we looking at 6 on the elevator going in? 7 MR. THOMPSON: For completion of the elevator? 8 MR. STODDARD: Yeah. 9 MR. THOMPSON: About two and a half months. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Two and a half? 11 MR. THOMPSON: Months. 12 MR. STODDARD: And that's based on getting some 13 answers on some beam changes and things that are involved in 14 this demolition that we ran into some items that were, 15 unfortunately, discovery items. I think we're still waiting 16 for some erection on some design beam changes, I understand, 17 Frank? 18 MR. THOMPSON: Mm-hmm. 19 MR. STODDARD: And I don't know the impact of 20 that on your getting moved into your courtroom. We've been 21 trying to find out whether it's possible for you to get into 22 your new courtrooms without the -- the use of the elevators, 23 but I think our schedule for finishing up in those 24 courtrooms now are probably into -- let me take a quick look 25 through here. I'm going to shoot from the hip and say May. 165 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question 2 while he's doing that. 3 MR. STODDARD: Yes, sir, go ahead. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was our original 5 completion date? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: March 28th. 7 MR. STODDARD: March something, end of March. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: March 28th, original. 9 Then we extended that to what? 10 MR. STODDARD: We actually have a formal 11 extension -- I think two of them. I think the total of one 12 was 30 days, and one for 10 days. We still have some items 13 pending that we haven't actually concluded that we would 14 anticipate time on. The one thing that we started out on 15 this, just to -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, April the 28th? 17 Is that what we're saying? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, 10 days past that, so it 19 would be May 5th. 20 MR. STODDARD: Mm-hmm. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May 5th, okay. 22 MR. STODDARD: Realistically, I think the 23 actual completion date will jump forward to probably 24 August -- probably mid to end of August. That's if we don't 25 run into any more delays. But that's not the completion 166 1 date on the Annex building; that's building completion date, 2 including this. 3 One of the things -- and it's -- I mean, it's 4 just a multitude of things. It's just kind of hard to stand 5 up here and explain them. We've actually prepared some 6 items that we were hoping that we would get to you, 'cause 7 it's some things that you need to digest. But, the reality 8 of it is, you know, we didn't even really get started into 9 the project -- we had to float a start date of February the 10 8th, and as you know, on March the 31st I think we had a 11 completely new -- almost entirely completely new set of 12 drawings, so we actually jumped about two months. We were 13 doing some work, but you also were doing abatement the first 14 month and a half, so some -- you know, there's some 15 concession. And, we discussed this early on in one of the 16 change orders, and never did finalize it in days, but in 17 reality, we didn't really have even formal new drawings 18 until March 31st, which was almost two months from the time 19 that we were supposed to start. I mean, you understand what 20 I'm saying. In other words, we actually -- because there 21 was -- the drawings were changed that the architects were 22 drawing, so structured drawings were changed at the very 23 beginning of the project. We had a start date of February 24 8th. We had those drawings on March 31st. So, in the very 25 beginning we didn't actually have complete working drawings 167 1 for what y'all wanted, and I think that was mostly desired 2 changes, for almost 60 days. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm -- on the dollar side 4 of it, how -- we've done two change orders? We approved -- 5 MS. TRICIA STODDARD: Two. 6 MR. LONGNECKER: Two change orders. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two change orders have 8 been approved by the Court. Are we on budget, dollar-wise, 9 for the total project? 10 MR. STODDARD: Well, I can't answer that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- 12 MR. STODDARD: You got to be, with the good 13 price we gave you going in. No, I don't know. I think 14 we're up a couple hundred thousand, probably, on changes. 15 Is that where we're at today? 16 MR. WALKER: Two-sixty. 17 MR. STODDARD: Two-sixty. So, I don't know 18 what the impact of that is. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did I hear you 20 correctly, Mr. Stoddard, the anticipated completion date is 21 now August? 22 MR. STODDARD: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: August 1? 24 MR. STODDARD: I'm going to say past 25 August 15th, between August 15th and the end of August. 168 1 But, in all fairness, I can tell you right now, we still 2 have pending changes; one of them, as I said, right now out 3 here. So -- but we're trying to project that in. But, 4 we've had continuing changes and unforseen conditions from 5 day one. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: What unforeseen conditions? 7 MR. STODDARD: Well, we had a situation in 8 the very early-on part of the project which is a change, 9 which was the beam situation over here on the east elevation 10 that -- to where we had some utilities coming through the 11 beam. And, we had to end up -- there was just a, I guess, 12 miscommunication, some of the correspondence coming through, 13 that these wall bracket situations, as far as getting the 14 wall brackets for holding the masonry back, which we had to 15 change the design -- or we didn't change the design; someone 16 changed the design. We changed them. That issue in itself 17 took -- I think, probably, from the start of the time that 18 we started asking questions, it was probably three months, 19 maybe longer, to the time it was actually cleared up and 20 solved. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Question. What -- 22 what are the major elements on the critical path of 23 completion today? What are the issues that are most 24 critical-path oriented? 25 MR. STODDARD: We're doing -- 169 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is it availability of 2 materials, or is it -- is it -- you know, what are the 3 elements that are on the critical path? 4 MR. STODDARD: Right now, probably -- well, 5 to probably actually discuss the critical path, I think it's 6 going to be depending on use of elevators. The elevator 7 right here is going to be a key, 'cause we're starting 8 finishes -- can I get further away from this thing? We're 9 starting finishes in the new courtrooms already. But, all 10 that was slowed down by problems that we had with the 11 masonry, which was the same issue of beams, support beams, 12 the wall brackets, and all of those things, locked into 13 windows and roofing. And, you know, we started interior 14 finishes in that space a long time ago, and just actually -- 15 even Mike Walker told me we need to be careful because of 16 being concerned about damaging the finishes until we had 17 time to get windows and roofing and that sort of thing on, 18 the canopy sheeted on, putting mill work in, you know -- 19 well, we thought at some risk. I'm not sure if it is. We 20 got most of the windows in at this time, continue to have 21 the new roofing on, but sort of concluded that it was in 22 good enough shape, if we did our timing right, that we do 23 get it without doing too much damage to it. So, depending 24 on what you need to do, whether this elevator has to be in. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that probably 170 1 correct? 2 MR. STODDARD: That's probably -- yes. Yeah, 3 'cause I think, in truth, the finishes and stuff in the 4 courtroom are following in ample time with the elevator, 5 but -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The elevator being the 7 new -- 8 MR. STODDARD: Yes, sir, the crossover and 9 the new elevator are sitting right out here. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the status of 11 the new roof, the roofing project? 12 MR. STODDARD: They've started on it. They 13 actually, I think, probably should be here today, and from 14 what I understand are not. Which is not good for us, of 15 course. But, they've -- I don't know what percentage 16 they've come along. 17 MR. THOMPSON: Three weeks. 18 MR. STODDARD: Three weeks out, depending on 19 the weather. They came and started, and I think they had 20 some problems with more wind than anything, but it's 21 apparently -- if the weather holds, probably three weeks. 22 That's just on the new building. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Question internal to 24 the courthouse here. Have we given -- done any analysis on 25 operating without that elevator yet? 171 1 MR. STODDARD: I asked the question. 2 MR. LONGNECKER: I didn't quite hear your 3 question. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I said have we done 5 any analysis on the possibility of operating without that 6 elevator, if that's on the critical path? 7 MR. LONGNECKER: Did some. I might mention 8 the only thing that would be needed to operate without it is 9 to make sure that Stairway Number 2 is open, because that is 10 our fire exit; it has to be in place. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 12 MR. LONGNECKER: We have that stair and then 13 one in the back, but both of them need to be open and up to 14 code and have direct exits to the outside. And, this ramp 15 needs to be finished out here in order for that stair to 16 exit to the outside. Keith, these were the on last 17 schedule -- 18 MR. STODDARD: Right, yeah. 19 MR. LONGNECKER: -- submitted by you at our 20 last building committee construction meeting. 21 MR. STODDARD: Okay. Well, actually, I think 22 they've been massaging that some. 23 MR. LONGNECKER: That's the current one that 24 I have. 25 MR. STODDARD: That's fine, okay. I think 172 1 that's what I'm looking at. I think we changed some -- this 2 showed some finish dates. We didn't make the changes. 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Glenn, did you have something 5 you wanted to offer? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I think, to answer 7 Commissioner Griffin's question, no, there hasn't been a 8 study, but there is an elevator that goes up to that floor 9 that is currently operating. It's in the construction area 10 right now, which would be probably difficult to maneuver 11 people around. But access, yes. Does that answer the 12 question, what you were after? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The reason for the 14 question is -- is that -- 15 MR. STODDARD: What can we do to expedite it. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- what can we do to 17 expedite it? 18 MR. STODDARD: Sure. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Being able to occupy 20 and operate in that building, with perhaps some things still 21 in work, like the elevator. If that's a big showstopper on 22 the schedule, then if we can do work around and not have to 23 have that elevator in service at the time we open the 24 building, maybe we can do that. Maybe -- I may be talking 25 totally out of school here, because there may be occupancy 173 1 problems that are based on the contracting work and so on. 2 I'm not trying to get into that. I'm saying, is it possible 3 to do? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: District courts 5 operate now on that level. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the 8 concerns that I would have -- and this is going back to the 9 jail issue, of moving into a structure or building that is 10 not 100 percent complete. Part of the problems that we 11 developed out there was because we did that for that 12 project. And, I think -- I don't -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good point. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not convinced that is 15 the right way to go. I'm not leaning in that direction 16 right now. 17 MR. STODDARD: Actually, there was something 18 that Mike's trying to get in here, but I -- in looking at 19 the phasing, it almost implies that maybe you had intended 20 to move in without it necessarily being all complete. Is 21 that correct, Mike? Is that -- 22 MR. WALKER: No. We really intended for 23 the -- unless I am forgetting something here over the last 24 year, we really intended for the elevator to be in place, 25 but -- and I think all the departments that I've talked to 174 1 that are affected by the -- like the District Clerk and so 2 forth, they all anticipated it would be there. And, one of 3 the things that Keith brought up at the construction meeting 4 the other day -- and he can speak to it better than I can, 5 but he has a lot of furniture coming in, and this is a 6 little bit bigger elevator than the elevator -- existing 7 elevator back there, which is in a work area, of course. 8 And, it would be a whole lot easier to get that furniture up 9 here, and there's a lot of it. And -- and less likely to be 10 damaged, although the elevator's more likely to be damaged, 11 but it would be less likely that furniture would be 12 problematic if we did have the other elevator. And, then, I 13 guess the rest of it is just, you know, getting back to the 14 other issues of handicap access. And, granted, this is just 15 a short-term thing, but all the indications that I've 16 received from everyone was that they sure want to get that 17 elevator open. So, I -- 18 MR. STODDARD: We do, too. 19 MR. WALKER: I would not say that it could 20 not be done without it, because it can be done without it. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What -- and tell me 22 again, what is the impediment to getting the elevator in 23 quicker, faster, better? What's the impediment to that? 24 MR. WALKER: Well, as you can see, they've 25 worked around to this side to where they need to put the 175 1 elevator, and they're just now to that point. They were 2 pretty much following, as they were supposed to -- the 3 phasing, by the way, was to start right here at the door and 4 work their way around the courthouse, around to the west 5 side. It's just that the time delays because of beams, the 6 masonry work has lagged behind, and, you know, the roofing 7 has caused us to be to the point that -- that we're -- we 8 are not quite there with the elevators. But, this obviously 9 has to go up over here on the other side of the lobby before 10 it's even safe to let people in there. I mean, we can -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's not an elevator 12 problem, it's another construction procedure. 13 MR. WALKER: Procedural, yeah, it's just a -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The elevator parts and 15 pieces are available? 16 MR. STODDARD: They're here, as a matter of 17 fact, yes. There are -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The elevator problem 19 is really the construction of the -- what, the elevator -- 20 MR. WALKER: Place to put it. It's been here 21 since August. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 23 MR. LONGNECKER: Commissioner Griffin, I 24 might also mention that the City will have something to say 25 about the Certificate of Occupancy when we consider it 176 1 ready, and that has to come -- in other words, we'll have to 2 be able to meet certain codes. When that's -- we determine 3 it's ready, then they'll have to issue that before we can 4 actually do it. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just Forget my earlier 6 inference; I go with Commissioner Letz. We want it finished 7 and bought, signed, delivered. That's by far the better way 8 to do it. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In May. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Huh? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In May. 12 MR. STODDARD: I was just thinking of the 13 phasing. I'm not totally sure I understand this, but that's 14 the way it reads to me, 'cause it says when we start 3-B, 15 which is this; is that correct? It says this sub-phase 16 shall begin when one new courtroom, a holding cell, and the 17 temporary District Clerk's office on the lower level are 18 substantially complete for occupancy, and I'm not sure what 19 that means. It almost reads like maybe you had intended, at 20 some point in time, to utilize some of that space prior to 21 it all being complete. Another thing I think that we've 22 probably had a miscommunication in is the use of the 23 elevator, as far as you being able to use that, because of 24 the other elevator in the other end of the building and the 25 access of the loading dock is put in the other side. Which 177 1 is one of the things we discussed at the last meeting, is 2 whether or not that would be a feasible way to get you your 3 furniture. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At what point will the 5 Annex, including the elevator, be complete? 6 MR. STODDARD: I would think probably 1st of 7 June would probably be realistic. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, 'cause -- I mean, to 9 me, as soon as that is -- I mean, I think, just the way I 10 remember us thinking at the time, as soon as the Annex was 11 complete, then we can move into the Annex and then they can 12 start up here. 13 MR. STODDARD: Well, sure. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In my mind, we always 15 said that that had to be completely finished over there 16 first; then we would accept occupancy of that, and then move 17 over to the upstairs of this building. 18 MR. STODDARD: And that makes sense. That's 19 not what this says, but that makes sense. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- you know, 21 that's just -- so -- but that, you know, assuming we can 22 live with the end of August total date, we're talking about 23 a June period moving into the Annex, which -- 24 MR. STODDARD: We'd like to know -- or you 25 can -- and it's not going to change anything, and I have -- 178 1 I have plenty of documentation that I'll be glad to share 2 with you, send it up here. I have a scheduling listing 3 narrative as to where we can see where we're at, where we 4 are now, and -- and certainly not everybody's going to agree 5 with that. Some of it they'll agree to and some of it they 6 won't. We personally think there's just been several delays 7 that were beyond our control, some of them beyond anybody's 8 control. I think this is a situation where the wall 9 brackets -- I don't think that's -- you know, no one can 10 really see for sure what that was all about, with the tendon 11 system, you have the existing slabs. Until we got there, we 12 went in there and, you know, I think we were probably a 13 little bit slow in finding out, only in that we assumed by 14 design that it would work. We were at fault for assuming 15 that that would work. And, I don't know now that it 16 wouldn't have worked somehow, but it became apparent that it 17 wasn't practical. That one single issue, in our opinion, is 18 worth 90 to 120 days. And, all of that ties into masonry, 19 windows, and roofing, which is the whole key to getting it 20 finished. I mean, 'cause we had the interior to some level 21 a long time ago, but there was just certain finishes that we 22 wouldn't go on with. I mean, you know, we had the windows 23 taped up. Couldn't put windows in because masonry wasn't 24 up. That's just kind of it. Like I say, I'll be glad to 25 share all that with you in writing, and I don't know what 179 1 it's going to change. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 3 MR. STODDARD: To be quite honest, I'm the 4 one that's taking the financial beating on it. You know, 5 I've been compensated for a very small part of it in the 6 early-on days. Haven't been compensated -- I'm going to ask 7 for more compensation, because I think that I was delayed on 8 some parts of it. So -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: There may have been some 10 delays on some parts of it, but I'm not prepared to accept 11 that there wasn't some culpability on your part in the 12 extent of the delays. We had a meeting in late November, 13 early December about this ramp over here. 14 MR. STODDARD: Yes, sir. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: How important it was to get 16 this ramp done. This ramp wasn't done until February, and 17 there was no reason for that -- for that long that I was 18 able to see, or provided any information regarding. 19 MR. STODDARD: Okay, there was some problems 20 with the ramp. I remember vividly meeting with you on it; I 21 think at the -- what month was that? That was December that 22 we met? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Early December or late 24 November. I don't remember exactly. 25 MR. STODDARD: Okay. And I think I had told 180 1 you that we was going to have that concrete poured in some 2 very close proximity to that meeting, and I think that 3 happened. But we did have a problem with the -- and, there 4 again, I think this was a scheduling problem with our -- 5 when the ramp got poured. And, actually, that wasn't the 6 impact, from what I can tell. It was an issue on the 7 aluminum and glass, and I'd have to go back and find out 8 exactly what that was. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you -- are you 10 finished, Judge? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a fairly high 13 degree of confidence that the new dates that you gave us are 14 accurate and will be met? 15 MR. STODDARD: Well, only thing I can give, I 16 feel pretty good about those days. I think it's become 17 obvious, I need to start sending letters to somebody here 18 when it starts slowing down and there's changes. I don't 19 know how Keith keeps you informed of additional changes or 20 what we see as delays. It's just -- like, we have a 21 situation right here right now on this elevator that I'm 22 assuming that we'll get the information we need to proceed 23 on with it, but right now it's -- I don't have enough 24 information, and -- and I would be willing to bet the farm, 25 so-to-speak, that there will be some more of these that will 181 1 come up between now and then. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From where are you 3 awaiting information, the elevator company or the architect? 4 MR. STODDARD: We have some structural design 5 changes that we need to see. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: From the elevator company or 7 from the architect? 8 MR. LONGNECKER: Consulting engineers. 9 MR. STODDARD: Consulting engineers. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whose? Yours or the 11 architect's? 12 MR. WALKER: Mine. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, it's the architect we're 14 waiting on. 15 MR. STODDARD: And, in fairness, this is 16 something that we just discovered, but it's a discovery 17 item, but it's a delay, no matter whose it is. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- from a 19 word of -- I mean, it's sounding like you're probably going 20 to come back with a change order for some additional funds, 21 and that's going to have to be extremely well documented as 22 to -- 23 MR. STODDARD: I understand. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- from the standpoint as 25 to why there were delays and what the costs of the delays 182 1 were. 2 MR. STODDARD: Sure, I understand. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just to let you know, 4 plenty of warning that, you know, that's got to be 5 documented, because we're at the end of the budget -- 6 MR. STODDARD: Sure. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- dollar-wise. But, you 8 know, at this point, we know, hopefully. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: At least we know now a little 10 bit more than we did when we launched into this. We know 11 now not to get real excited till -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Something -- something 13 that would be helpful, I think, is if -- without going into 14 a lot of details, so that it's not a big overhead -- 15 MR. STODDARD: Yes, sir? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- administratively, 17 for you or anybody, is that when you feel like there is some 18 further delay to this August 15th to August 31st -- 19 MR. STODDARD: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- date, tell us that 21 as quick as you can, so that we can go back through all the 22 hoops as necessary to see -- 23 MR. STODDARD: Sure. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- if there's anything 25 we can do to ameliorate that. And, that would -- like I 183 1 say, not with a lot of management overhead, but just say, 2 "Hey, I think it's going to be closer to the end of August 3 than the 15th." That would be interesting to know at some 4 point. Or if its slips any further beyond that. 5 MR. STODDARD: Sure. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And in two sentences, 7 you know; not a big analysis, but just so that we don't end 8 up with a big delay that we don't -- 9 MR. STODDARD: I understand. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- find out about 11 until -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With that, it's -- I 13 mean, my recommendation would be it goes to Mr. Longnecker, 14 so -- we don't want you to start getting information to us. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's what I mean. 16 As soon as -- 17 MR. STODDARD: Exactly. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It ought to go to -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't want to start 20 getting information here somewhere. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: When I say to "us," I 22 meant through Keith. I'm sorry, I should have said that. 23 MR. STODDARD: We probably have been lax in 24 giving him enough written if that's going to take longer, 25 because I know that he knows some things that are going on, 184 1 and I don't know what he shares with you, so -- but from 2 this point on, we'll make sure that -- that it goes further. 3 MR. LONGNECKER: You get a copy of my 4 bimonthly report, the same as the Commission does, so you 5 should know what I share with them. 6 MR. LONGNECKER: Okay, and I can read that, 7 so that's fine. So -- and we've been lax in responding to 8 that, and it shouldn't have been, but from this point 9 forward, when we see something in there or if we don't agree 10 with it or whatever, or if it doesn't comment that -- in the 11 comments that it's a delay, we'll make sure that it's put in 12 there. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I would like to 14 know if Mr. Longnecker has -- just has anything to say. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Keith, do you have any 16 comments, as our consultant? 17 MR. LONGNECKER: We'll, he's pretty well 18 covered everything, I think. The main thing -- problem 19 we're having, as he said, we've had some very recent 20 discoveries down here of where the footings are much deeper 21 than they were anticipated, because we had no information on 22 the old building from original drawings or from any other 23 source to tell us where they were. So, presently, the 24 structural engineers from -- for Mike Walker's consultants, 25 they are giving us and getting some new details prepared to 185 1 finish that. I think at that point, we will be able to get 2 some -- and correct me if I'm wrong, Frank, but be ready to 3 start up with the foundation work, and then get on and get 4 some piers drilled and get on up through the building with 5 an elevator shaft. And, once that is completed, the rest of 6 the foundation on the west side, and then they can move 7 around and the stairs and everything else can be finished. 8 And, these are the critical or major areas of the building 9 that need to be finished. The rest of it is going to be 10 just general finish of mill work, brick work, and other 11 things. But, at present, they are working with as many 12 contractors and as much help as they can get. They're 13 getting all the information as quickly as Mike can get it to 14 them, and I see the schedule being pretty close, if they 15 continue at the pace that they're going. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 17 comments? Thank you, Mr. Stoddard. We appreciate your 18 time. 19 MR. STODDARD: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 21 MR. STODDARD: At some point in time, do you 22 want me to forward any of these documents, time frame where 23 we are? Do you care? Or, I mean -- you know, other than -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'd like to see everything. 25 MR. STODDARD: Okay, I'll be sure and get it 186 1 to you, then. Thank you. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I guess we'll go back to the 3 agenda, try to clean up the rest of it. Item 2.19, consider 4 and discuss what steps must be taken to remove the colonia 5 designation from the unincorporated town of Center Point and 6 remove same. Commissioner Williams. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I 8 have had people inquire of me as to whether or not the 9 colonia designation for the now unincorporated town of 10 Center Point was still in effect, and I was unable to answer 11 that question, so I directed a -- a question to the County 12 Attorney's office, and Ms. Bailey this morning gave me a 13 note. Ilse, would you like to help me address this issue? 14 MS. BAILEY: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The background is 16 very simple; is that before you, the -- Center Point at one 17 point was incorporated, and the governing body of that town, 18 in an effort to -- to obtain a USDA-RUS grant, had to meet 19 the criteria as set forth for that grant, and one part of 20 that criteria was to declare that little town a colonia 21 status. They did that; came to Commissioners Court, and we, 22 in effect, ratified their request. So, I guess, really, my 23 question all boils down to, now that there is no longer an 24 incorporated government, there is no elected governing body, 25 there is nobody there minding the store, which is closed, 187 1 did this just die and go away? 2 MS. BAILEY: Let me preface my answer by 3 saying that I have tried to find an answer in the statutes 4 to that question, and I believe there is none. And, I 5 inquired of T.N.R.C.C., which would be the State agency that 6 would be able to answer that question, and have not been 7 able to receive a satisfactory answer from them, either yes 8 or no. It would be my opinion legally, by -- by just 9 reviewing how the process came about, that since what the 10 Commissioners Court did was ratify the city's existence as a 11 colonia, that since the city no longer exists, its status as 12 anything would therefore also not exist. And, so, I would 13 reach the conclusion that the City of Center Point is no 14 longer, and is no longer a colonia designation. So, I 15 don't -- I don't think that you have to take any action by 16 this Court to undo that particular designation. Now, that's 17 not to say that the area could not, in the future, be 18 designated as a colonia for some other specific purpose, 19 even without its having been reincorporated, but I just 20 think as that as far as designation goes, it's evaporated 21 with the city, and so that we don't need to address it any 22 further. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good enough 24 for me. Thank you, Ms. Bailey. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Item 2.21, 188 1 consider and discuss the status of internet-slash-phone 2 access for Kerr County. Commissioner Letz. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 4 for two reasons. One, for my own interest, and one is I've 5 been asked about it a couple times in the community, and 6 this is something that I believe the Judge and Commissioner 7 Griffin were working on about a year ago. And, it's just 8 more or less to find out what's going on and -- from the 9 Court standpoint and for the public standpoint, as to where 10 we're going and what we're doing. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me lead off, and 12 then I think Tommy's got some information for us, too. But, 13 yeah, we started on this about a year ago, had several 14 conversations with -- with local service providers, et 15 cetera. I think we've come up with the -- with a good 16 technical approach for how to -- to both cable the 17 courthouse, have interconnectivity to the internet 18 throughout -- available throughout the building, and 19 including the Annex, by the way, which is ordered on -- a 20 cable will be available. We would have the -- through the 21 mainframe tie-in with the Sheriff's Department, all the law 22 enforcement facilities will have capability to get to a -- 23 to an internet provider without going through dial-up -- 24 standard dial-up connection, so that the end result would be 25 that we would have our own County government-wide internet 189 1 connectivity with a hosted website. 2 It would be something like -- in fact, it 3 will be; the name's already been reserved for us -- 4 www.kerrcounty.com, and that we could have as many -- and, 5 by the way, it would be unlimited access. No charges per 6 hour or minimum, dedicated lines and cabling. Any time that 7 the computer is on, you'll be connected, so there's no -- 8 it's not a dial-up correction. You don't have to dial up 9 individually. As soon as you boot up the machine and put 10 your password in, you have connectivity to the internet. We 11 can have as many in that architecture, we can have as many 12 e-mail accounts as we want. And, that would depend a lot on 13 the department head, how many -- who they want to have 14 internet capability and e-mail and e-mail accounts and so 15 on. That would be up to the department head, and that can 16 all be passworded. It can be -- there's a number of issues 17 that department heads would have the final say on how their 18 office is configured. 19 We have met -- Tommy and I have met 20 separately and together with the phone company several times 21 over the last three or four months. We now know what it 22 will take, and one of the things it's going to take is some 23 money, and so we're looking for sources of that. Tommy, 24 I'll let you pick it up at this point, because you've got 25 some rough cost figures in mind. And we had some parts on 190 1 hand, by the way, that we could use; Tommy found them when 2 they was inventorying stuff for the sale on the 11th, and so 3 we saved some money by having to go through that exercise. 4 Tommy found some hubs that -- so-called hubs that we can 5 use, and I think we'll have to buy one more? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: One more. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One more hub, and the 8 cabling and the labor to install all of that. And, then, 9 when we get down to a per-month charge for this, by the way, 10 we will pay about the same as we are paying now for all of 11 our three or four different kind of dial-up internet access 12 throughout the County offices, and with very limited e-mail 13 capability. We'll have unlimited e-mail capability and can 14 connect the whole into one system. And, we'll do it for 15 about the same per-month cost; continuing cost will be about 16 the same as we're paying now. But, we're going to have to 17 have some Capital Outlay, and I think Tommy can talk to 18 that. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the -- the plan that we 20 have for -- for connectivity is to segregate the buildings 21 in -- in clusters -- I will call them clusters -- each 22 section of the buildings, one being the courthouse, the 23 basement and the ground floor, the other being the District 24 Clerk's Office, the other being the downstairs section where 25 the County Attorney is, and the other being the second floor 191 1 Annex. We already have cabling done for -- for the -- the 2 top floor Annex now. We have some cabling done in the 3 County Clerk's office now. The -- the expensive -- I mean, 4 I think most of the cost will run in labor and recabling all 5 existing users. That's probably a week of work for someone 6 to do, at an estimated $50 to $65 an hour to recable the 7 building. Probably about a 24-port hub for the County -- 8 for the County Clerk's area, the Tax Office, and -- and the 9 County Court at Law. Cabling will probably run $500, $600; 10 probably estimate about 3,000, 4,000 feet of cable. We'll 11 have to -- we'll have to have some -- our software people 12 here that maintain our mainframe computer to install the -- 13 the equipment and to set it up where it works correctly with 14 the system. My estimate is between $4,000 and $5,000. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, as a part of 16 that, that Capital Outlay, I think it's -- and this is an 17 important point to me -- is that that will provide cabling 18 for all of the offices, so that we don't have to go back -- 19 let's say a department head doesn't want a person who is in 20 an area right now to have internet access. That's fine, and 21 the person won't have it. But the cabling is going to be 22 there, so that if we change configurations of that office, 23 or if there is a need later on for that person to have it, 24 we don't have to go back in to that cabling business. This 25 is going to be a one-time deal, which is the way to do it. 192 1 If you're going to cable, cable it all, and then limit the 2 access on what you hook up, but don't just cable to where 3 you want a computer to sit today, because you'll end up 4 paying two or three times what would you pay eventually, 5 anyway. So, our challenge, then, is to really move out on 6 this. And, by the way, that one week of cabling is a long 7 pole in a tent; you can do this and have the internet 8 capability that we're talking about, probably, from start to 9 finish, two or three weeks from the time we do it, if we can 10 get the wherewithal to make that happen. So, we're going to 11 have to look at our -- at our Capital Outlay budget to see 12 how we're -- if we do we have that kind of money, can we 13 scrape it together out of what we got? Or it boils down to, 14 I think, that if we don't, then we've either got -- if we 15 have some money somewhere in the budget, amend that. We 16 might move the money into this. We can do it, or we can 17 wait until the next budget cycle, and I don't think we know 18 enough yet about the potential budget amendment, do we? To 19 say -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not yet, to be able to 22 say that we can't do it that way, but we're not looking to 23 bust the budget here for it. So -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It wasn't budgeted, 193 1 per se, to do this in our last budget. That's what I'm 2 saying. We're looking at a reprogramming requirement, or 3 put it off till the next budget cycle. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's pretend that we 5 had $5,000 to -- I mean, just pretend we had money. How 6 long would it take? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Start to finish -- 8 start to finish, maybe a couple weeks. Two or three weeks 9 at most, because it's putting in the cables, is the big 10 problem. And then, once the work gets done, the phone 11 company runs a -- if we decide on fiberoptic, where they -- 12 that would be a fiberoptic line which the phone company just 13 runs over to here; I mean, that's a one-day deal to them. I 14 mean, there's no time at all. That's the real hub or that's 15 the real conduit that all this stuff gets through the phone 16 company. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we, at some point, 18 need to do a Court order designating the proposal -- or 19 requesting a proposal from the phone company, or do we 20 already have it in one of our other contracts with the phone 21 company, or designate you to -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The problem that I 23 think we would have if we want an integrated system -- which 24 is what we did decide on last budget cycle, we want an 25 integrated system. If we want a totally integrated system, 194 1 you've almost got to go with a phone provider that -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kerrville Telephone 3 Company. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's almost got to 5 be Kerrville Telephone Company. Now, we could have an 6 internet service provider from somewhere else. I don't see 7 how in the world we could get the cost any lower. We may 8 want to get some bids, and we can certainly still do that, 9 but it -- but that doesn't -- that's a service contract, and 10 we're not required -- we can go get service wherever we want 11 it. Getting the money together to get the cabling done, get 12 the hubs in, get all of that kind of thing done, we'd have 13 to have a phone company run that line anyway, even if we had 14 another provider. For example, it's not a cost impact deal; 15 we're not going to save money. In fact, we're -- the cost 16 of the cabling is essentially standard throughout the 17 industry. So, it's not a -- we can certainly look at clever 18 ways of maybe going out for some bids for that kind of work 19 to be done, but I would almost think that it would save 20 money by saying to our provider of service, "We want that. 21 Give us a fixed price and put it in." 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would tend to agree. I 23 mean, the little I know about all this stuff, that we're 24 better off going with someone like Kerrville Telephone. My 25 question is more related to -- I don't want to get -- you 195 1 know, we need to designate someone or request something from 2 the Court order standpoint, as opposed to just doing it. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'd have to -- we'd have to 4 adopt an order contracting with the Kerrville Telephone 5 Company or accepting a proposal in order for them to do the 6 work. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but we haven't 8 requested a proposal yet, is what I'm saying. I mean -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, 'cause all we've 10 done is a costing exercise. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we want to go out and ask 12 for proposals, we can do that, but there's not likely to be 13 any response from anybody but Kerrville Telephone Company. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe -- should we do an 15 order -- say we're going to use Kerrville Telephone Company, 16 and it seems to me that it's kind of an awkward thing that 17 we're negotiating to deal, but a Court order saying, hey, we 18 wants to do this. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, now, I'm not sure I'd 20 say -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not negotiating. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- we're negotiating 23 anything, you know. What we're -- Commissioner Griffin and 24 I met with K.T.C., and they're in the process, along with 25 Tommy and Commissioner Griffin, of refining the proposal. 196 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: And the proposal will be laid 3 on the table, and Commissioner Griffin has outlined the 4 proposal. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We had to do a 6 technical evaluation. How do you do a technical -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can approve the proposal 8 or disapprove the proposal. There's been -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's happened has not 11 obligated the County in any way, shape, or form. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that. I 13 just -- okay. Larry, when you're talking about cabling, are 14 you talking about in this building, all the offices in this 15 building? 16 (Commissioner Griffin nodded.) 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understood the 18 Annex has already been taken care of; is that right? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. The only -- the 20 only place that we would probably maintain a dial-up 21 capability would be from Ingram Annex, because it's not 22 really cost-effective if we wanted to put internet 23 capability there. And, we still -- we haven't -- that's up 24 to Paula and to J.P. 4 and the constable. But, if we put it 25 there, that's the -- that would probably be maintained as a 197 1 dial-up, the kind of thing that you've got now. Still, it 2 would be access to the K.T.C. system, which would mean that 3 you'd have full internet access and all kinds of e-mail 4 capability and so on. We just wouldn't have that on this 5 high speed line. I'm not kidding you, the kind of 6 capability we're talking about putting in here is faster 7 than a Chevrolet. I mean, this is not sitting and watching 8 the modem cook. It's just like that (snapped fingers). 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do a lot of that. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just like that. It's 11 a very high data rate system. Approaching -- if you're 12 familiar with it, it's approaching T-1 line capability. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the Law 14 Enforcement Center is included in this? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's correct. It 16 would have the same high-speed access that we would have 17 here in the courthouse. And, that's a system that we can 18 live with for several years. You know, technology is 19 changing so fast, you hate to buy something old, and try to 20 buy as new as you can, but this is a system I think we could 21 live with for several -- for the foreseeable technical 22 future that arises, pretty short. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about the 24 Juvenile Detention Center? Will that include -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, we'll probably 198 1 maintain that as a dial-up. But, courthouse and Law 2 Enforcement Center would be part of this high-speed network. 3 The other places all have access, all have e-mail, 4 unlimited, except on their dial-up accounts you've got to do 5 a little different kind of arrangement, because you've got 6 to pay to get more time online. Courthouse and Law 7 Enforcement Center would not have anything other than a 8 standard monthly charge, as many accounts as we want. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: What do you think is the 10 timeline for having this package, assuming we find the 11 money? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'd say about three 13 weeks after the money's on the table. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I mean, but when do you all 15 think could you come back to us and say, "We found the 16 money" or -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, that's something 18 we've got to work on now, I guess. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, a lot of it hinges, 20 too, on -- on the schedule of -- of whoever the installer is 21 and the schedule of our software people. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. There might 23 be -- but, once we had the money and the go-ahead, proper 24 Court order in place, if we've got the availability of the 25 Software Group people, it's probably a 2- to 3-week effort, 199 1 would be my guess, when they're ready. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? T.? 3 MR. SANDLIN: I'm sure you did, but did y'all 4 include some type of firewall mechanism in there? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. We can firewall 6 here, and the Law Enforcement Center, obviously, there's 7 some fire-walling already done there. For those of you not 8 familiar with that, it's just -- it's the ability to secure 9 data flow so that you don't have people able to hack into 10 your system. You don't build a network like that anymore 11 without good firewalls. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Will there be special rates 13 for those buildings or facilities that are not currently 14 within this -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, it would be. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Like for, let's say, our 17 offices out there. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. The rates that 19 we've talked about would be less than what you go out as a 20 single office now and -- and pay for, 'cause you're 21 essentially -- we're essentially paying the same thing that 22 an individual would pay, except the problem is we've got -- 23 I think we've got internet service being provided by at 24 least three different providers over various County offices, 25 and they're all dial-up systems and they're all very limited 200 1 access, when you have lines that have to be shared between 2 offices, even. So, it's our accounts that have to be shared 3 between offices, and this would solve all of that. You 4 wouldn't have any more conflict of, "Well, if so-and-so's on 5 the system for 20 hours this month, we can't be on it at 6 all." Or whatever. Turn on the machine, you're plugged in. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank you. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jonathan, anything else? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. All right, let's go to 11 Item 2.27, which is consider and discuss selection of 12 consultant from employee job classification compensation 13 study. We received three proposals from different agencies, 14 different consulting groups to do the classification and 15 compensation study that we've been talking about here for 16 about a year. One from Ray and Associates, one from Michael 17 Nash and Company, and one which we received just the other 18 day from Water Consulting Group, Inc., out of Dallas. 19 Barbara, have you had a chance to look at these and do you 20 have any opinions as to the merits of any of these three? 21 MS. NEMEC: Yes, I did. Do you want me to 22 step up to the podium? I did review all three of these. 23 The Ray and Associates, I think -- I believe the cost on 24 that is, like, $21,700, plus expenses. I guess I'll talk 25 about costs first, and then we can go back. Nash and 201 1 Company is $18,400, and that is a fixed figure. They do not 2 have any expenses that they would include in that. And then 3 the Waters Consulting was $14,700, plus expenses on that, 4 too. So, the only one that we're looking at that we will 5 actually know how much it's going to be is the Nash and 6 Company, and that's the $18,400. And, they said it could be 7 up to that amount; they haven't definitely said it's going 8 to be that amount. The difference in -- in reading these 9 proposals is the -- that I found was the Ray and Associates 10 interviews up to 40 employees, to whereas the Nash and 11 Company does 100 percent of interviews with the employees, 12 and then they also have an appeal process, which I did not 13 notice in the Ray and Associates, nor in the Waters 14 Consulting. So, I think -- I think that was what 15 distinguished all three of them, was that the Nash and 16 Company really gets down and interviews the employees, comes 17 back with recommendations, and then discusses it with the 18 employees again and the elected officials or department 19 heads, and gets a lot of input from that. I feel that if 20 they do job description questionnaires and then they just 21 get them back and read them, redo the job description, they 22 don't come back -- I mean, its hard to tell just from a 23 piece of paper what the actual job description is. So, 24 that's kind of what I noticed in all, between the three of 25 them. 202 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Commissioner Griffin, 2 you sat in on the discussion with Ray. Have you had a 3 chance to look at these, and do you have any -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I haven't had a chance 5 to look at the back of that last one we just got in any 6 detail, but I -- I had the same thing. I like the 7 fixed-cost aspect of the Nash proposal, because we know what 8 we're -- we know what the product is and we know what we're 9 going to pay for it. I -- I've not gone through -- I've not 10 dealt with companies like this before, myself, so if anybody 11 here has got some more ideas about what we need to look at 12 and what the critical things are, I would tend to agree with 13 what Barbara said, and I like the Nash proposal. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Have you talked -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't dislike the 16 others, either. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Did you hear from any of the 18 other elected officials or department heads? 19 MS. NEMEC: I did hear from one, and just the 20 comment was that they were not in favor of the Ray and 21 Associates proposal. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The what? 23 MS. NEMEC: They were not in favor of the Ray 24 and Associates proposal. And, I take that back; I did hear 25 from another department head this morning, and they like the 203 1 Nash and Company because of the employee involvement in it. 2 Now, I know -- I got a survey from the Waters Consulting 3 firm last week. They're doing -- for a survey for the City; 4 they're doing job descriptions for the City. But, that 5 hasn't taken place yet, so I didn't even bother to call the 6 City and see what kind of job they did, 'cause they haven't 7 completed that yet. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barbara, what is the 9 difference between the -- the Waters and Nash? I really -- 10 I got this today; I really haven't even looked at the Waters 11 proposal. I went through the Nash one. 12 MS. NEMEC: The difference between the 13 proposals? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean -- 15 MS. NEMEC: I did not see in the Waters 16 Consulting where -- I think they have an orientation with 17 the employees and explain the process to the employees, and 18 then give them a form to fill out, and then those forms are 19 turned in to one certain person. But, they do not actually 20 go through and interview the employees and then come back -- 21 they don't have an appeal process, from what I could read in 22 this. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't think we can 25 go wrong with a high level of -- the highest possible level 204 1 of employee input, because that's -- that's what can lead to 2 the satisfaction. And, if you don't talk to the employees, 3 or you give the impression that they're not talking to all 4 of them or taking a very small sample, that just can't be as 5 good as 100 percent. 6 MS. NEMEC: Right. Even if -- if they're not 7 in agreement, at least it was talked over with them as to 8 why and -- and they know why, instead of just kind of being 9 in the dark. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 11 MS. NEMEC: As to -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would -- let me just throw 13 out a couple things. Of the three competitors we have on 14 the table here, Ray and Associates has had far more 15 experience in County government. They did the work here in 16 1986. There was not uniform approval of their methodology 17 in 1986. Michael Nash and Company appears to be principally 18 a California company that is moving into the Texas market. 19 I don't see where they've had a lot of experience in Texas 20 counties, per se, but they have obviously had a lot of 21 experience in public sector compensation and classification 22 issues. Waters Company is -- has principally been a city 23 consulting group or water district. I spoke to Mr. Waters, 24 the principal of the company -- of the company, this 25 morning. They are just completing their first county job, 205 1 and they have another county job to do. When I asked him 2 who would be doing our work, he identified the same person 3 who is just now completing the Bell County work and the 4 person who would be doing the Live Oak County work as the 5 person who would also be doing our work, which makes me 6 wonder about whether they have the depth of personnel to 7 take on the responsibility. Each of the three has said they 8 would be finished by not later than August the 1st, which is 9 cutting it close, but that's about the best we can do as far 10 as having information back in time for our final budget 11 deliberations. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- I can't remember. 13 How much, if any, did we budget for this, Tommy? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: We did not budget any, per 15 se, for this. My suggestion is going to be that we take the 16 cost of this out of the monies we had set aside for seed 17 money for the Purchasing Department. I think this 18 classification and compensation study is an important issue 19 to the employees. We talked about it last year. We were 20 unable to get it done last year in time for the budget 21 process. It hasn't been done since 1993, I believe, so it 22 would be eight years since it was last completed. I think 23 it's something we need to do, and while I remain committed 24 to the Purchasing Department, we're going to have to have 25 some more discussions on that along the line. I, myself, am 206 1 willing to suggest taking the money out of the $50,000 we've 2 set aside to start the Purchasing Department and use it for 3 purposes of this study. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good idea. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: My idea would be, you know, 6 that Barbara would spearhead it. I think Mr. Nash's 7 proposal, as I remembered, called for some -- some committee 8 work. We'll get some representatives from -- probably one 9 from at least Road and Bridge, Sheriff's Department, to 10 spread some representatives around so that it's not one 11 group of the courthouse, the County employees, being 12 involved, to the exclusion of the others. But, I strongly 13 think this is something we need to move forward on. That's 14 why I'm willing to identify the funds out of the money we 15 set aside for the Purchasing Department. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm in agreement with 17 that, Judge, and I personally -- I like the Nash group's 18 ideas the best. I just don't want anybody to know that I 19 voted for somebody from California. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: They have an Austin office. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't tell anybody, 22 though. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: You know, I'll also say that 24 I called Allison Bass and Associates and asked if they did 25 this work, and I never got any response from them, so -- 207 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was here and worked 2 with the Ray and Associates the first time around, and we're 3 not going to go there. I'll fight you guys if you do that. 4 MS. NEMEC: They just finished doing 5 Fredericksburg, and I know that I called the Fredericksburg 6 County to see -- Gillespie County to see how they felt about 7 them, and there was half of them that thought they did a 8 great job, and the other half just said forget it. So, I 9 guess it depends, you know, who -- who got a raise and who 10 didn't. I don't know. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion that 12 we -- do we have to enter -- authorize you to do a contract 13 with them, or is there a contract attached in our proposal? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is not a contract 15 there. Just accept their proposal and authorize me to 16 negotiate a contract and take the funds out of the money set 17 aside for the Purchasing Department. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just kind of spur him 19 along a little bit, he'll make the motion for you. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Are you so moving? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 24 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we accept the 25 proposal from Nash and Company, Inc., for the Kerr County 208 1 classification compensation study and authorize County Judge 2 to negotiate and execute an agreement with Nash and Company 3 and take the funds from the funds set aside for the 4 Purchasing Department. Any further discussion? If not, all 5 in favor, raise your right hand. 6 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. As long as 10 we have touched on the issue of the Purchasing Department, 11 Item 2.25 is consider and discuss the date for workshop 12 regarding establishment of a Purchasing Department. We've 13 been working on this in the last few months. I think it 14 would be useful for us to get everyone together and have 15 questions answered and asked regarding the benefits and 16 detriments of the Purchasing Department. Commissioner 17 Griffin has done quite a bit of work. I've been in contact 18 with the State organization of purchasing agents, and why 19 don't you just today it from there, Larry? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. There is a Texas 21 Association of County -- I think it's County Purchasing 22 Agents, but anyway, there are -- maybe it's just Purchasing 23 Agents, period. But, I've talked with their president, who 24 is the Purchasing Agent in Denton County, and she has told 25 me that they have numbers of people who would be willing to 209 1 come and meet with us in a workshop environment to answer 2 questions about what's good about the system of having a 3 Purchasing Agent, how you implement those systems, what 4 support is available from State agencies and other counties 5 and so on, having to do with having a Purchasing Department. 6 And, so, I checked last week to see, you know, when might we 7 get somebody to come here and -- and sort of answer official 8 questions of the outfit like that. They said, You set the 9 date and we'll get you one or more people who would be 10 willing to come and meet with you, and who are very 11 experienced in the area and can tell us some of the pitfalls 12 if we decide to do that, and so on. And, so, I said, "About 13 how long?" She said, "Well, give us a couple of weeks. The 14 longer you can give to us" -- said, You pick a date, but 15 give us as long as you can, and that way we'll have more 16 time to get somebody to -- the best available." So, I think 17 all that we probably need to do is set a date for a 18 workshop, and then I'll get back to them and let them know. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: My suggestion would be that 20 we set it in the afternoon of either the April the 10th or 21 April the 24th meeting. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 2 o'clock? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: At 2 o'clock. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 24th. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: 24th. 210 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get a little more time. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do I have a motion to that 3 effect? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Griffin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court set a 8 workshop on April 24th at 2 o'clock in the afternoon for 9 purposes of discussing establishment of a Purchasing 10 Department in Kerr County. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment. Larry, when 12 you're talking to them, I guess, from my standpoint, request 13 somebody from a county relatively the same size. We don't 14 want someone from Harris County to explain purchasing, in my 15 mind. We want somebody from -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or Denton County. 17 It's getting to look like Dallas. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There are some other 19 counties that are about our size. I think I found three 20 that have Purchasing Agents and Purchasing Departments that 21 we can probably request somebody from there. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any further 23 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 24 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 211 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is 2.23, consider 3 and discuss appointing three representatives to the Alamo 4 Area Council of Governments Senior Advisory Committee. 5 Brief background, I received a roster from Alamo Area 6 Council of Governments indicating that we did not have any 7 representatives to the AACOG Senior Advisory Committee and 8 were entitled to three. I sent a letter to Lew Williams, 9 who at that time was the Chairman of the Board of Dietert 10 Claim, I believe, and received back the correspondence you 11 find in the packet from Mr. Breckenridge I believe 12 recommending these three individuals to act as 13 representatives to Senior Advisory Committee. Any questions 14 or comments? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Monthly meetings? One 17 time a month in San Antonio, the same time as your Executive 18 Board or what? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not the same time. The 20 meetings are a day or two prior, but it is a monthly meeting 21 in San Antonio. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 23 that we appoint Betty Pelton, Sue Dyke, and Haskell Fine as 24 Kerr County's representatives to the Alamo Area Council of 25 Governments Senior Advisory Committee. 212 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is Ms. Pelton from, 2 what part of the county? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Looks like Kerrville. She 4 lives on Drummond Street. Do I have a second? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we appoint 8 Betty Pelton, Sue Dyke, and Haskell Fine to serve as the 9 Kerr County representatives to the Senior Advisory Committee 10 of the Alamo Area Council of Governments. Any further 11 questions? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Is the -- 13 okay, I see the terms in there. I guess my only comment is 14 that, you know, we need to make sure we keep all precincts, 15 all areas of the county represented on these matters. I'm 16 not sure this is or isn't -- I'm not sure if this is a plus 17 or minus, to be honest, anyway. But -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a service. It's clearly 19 a service. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe I'm -- anyway, I 21 just think we need to always remember that -- that we're 22 going to get, you know, too many from either Kerrville or 23 one area of the county. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: I will agree with that. Any 25 further comments or questions? If not, all in favor, raise 213 1 your right hand. 2 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Commissioner 6 Baldwin, did you want to resurrect 7 and 8 at this time? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. I have a 8 question on Number 8, and specifically, I have a question of 9 the County Attorney. I think I misunderstood what you said 10 after you had your telephone conversation. I thought I 11 heard you say that the other party Chair said it was okay 12 for -- it didn't matter to them, that we could go ahead and 13 appoint the person that we have on the ballot from this 14 point. Did you say that? 15 MS. BAILEY: Well, he was not taking the 16 position about what the Court could or couldn't do. I think 17 he was more -- he expressed surprise that there was even any 18 hesitation; I think that would be a good way to characterize 19 it. And, just to give you a few more parts of what our 20 conversation included, he did say that John Adams has filed 21 an application with the County Attorney and the County 22 Clerk, that he's received a copy of it, but there's no 23 requirement to file for a County office with the State 24 Chair, so he feels like he's not really in this scenario at 25 this point. As he reads the Election Code, he has no 214 1 authority to police the candidacies like this, and wouldn't 2 have authority to say, yes or no, whether or not the person 3 should be a candidate unless he felt that there was proof of 4 some fraud on the application that -- that really would 5 clearly disqualify him. He felt that he had not received 6 anything that would fall under that category yet, so he 7 felt -- he says he cannot make a statement as to whether or 8 not Mr. Adams would be a viable candidate because of that 9 fact. He can't speak to the issue at all until those 10 statutory deadlines, which are pretty far down in the 11 future. But, given all that, he said that, based on what he 12 had heard, he -- he was surprised that the Court did not go 13 ahead and appoint the successful candidate, being the one 14 who received the most votes in the election of voters who 15 did vote. And, as I said, he was apparently pleasantly 16 surprised that the Court was even having difficulty with the 17 issue. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which, to me, is a 19 statement in itself, that -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: May I interrupt you? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Certainly. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think whatever 23 happened here today, I think we have demonstrated due 24 diligence to seek out the current status of an announced 25 candidate, and based on that Libertarian party Chair's 215 1 statement, I feel comfortable that we can go ahead and take 2 action on this today. Certainly, the comments I made this 3 morning are not intended to obstruct the eventual outcome of 4 this, but to make sure that we have on the record that we 5 did our best to determine what the real facts were involving 6 the November election, and I think we've done that already. 7 And, I don't see any reason in my mind now to agonize over 8 that any longer. I -- I didn't mean to impede the process 9 in the first place. But, I think we had to have a full 10 airing of it and do everything and be assured that we've 11 done everything we can do, so that when you do take action, 12 that we can look voters and candidates and everybody in the 13 eye and say we did the best job we could. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a motion. I 15 move that we accept the resignation of James "Charlie" Hicks 16 as Interim Sheriff of Kerr County effective April 1, 2000. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Baldwin, 19 seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court accept the 20 resignation of James "Charlie" Hicks as Interim Sheriff of 21 Kerr County, to be effective April 1st, 2000. Any further 22 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 23 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 216 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item 2.8? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have a motion to 3 make. I move that we appoint Rusty Hierholzer as the 4 Interim Sheriff until he takes -- officially takes office 5 January 1, 2001. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be effective April 8 1st? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Baldwin, 11 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court appoint 12 Rusty Hierholzer as Interim Sheriff effective April 1st of 13 the Year 2000. Any further discussion? If not, all in 14 favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: If there's no other business to 19 come before us, we stand adjourned. 20 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:55 p.m.) 21 - - - - - - - - - - 22 23 24 25 217 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of April, 2000. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25