1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, June 26, 2000 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X June 26, 2000 PAGE 2 --- Commissioners' Comments 3 3 1.1 Pay Bills 8 1.2 Budget Amendments 9 4 1.3 Late Bills -- 1.4 Read and Accept Monthly Reports 25 5 2.1 Abandoning Ace Reid Road, set public hearing 26 6 2.2 Variance to underground permit, Verde Park Blvd. 31 2.3 Report of Off-System bridge inspections 36 7 2.4 Consider naming private road Sakewitz Lane North 49 2.5 Final replat, Clearview Estates, Unit 2 51 8 2.6 Preliminary replat, Lots 116-122, 123B, 123C, 136, 138, 139 & 140, Falling Water Subdivision 52 9 2.7 Preliminary replat, Lots 64, 65, 90 & 91 into Lots 65A & 90A, Falling Water Subdivision 55 10 2.8 Preliminary replat, Lots 33, 34, & 41-47, Falling Water Subdivision 56 11 2.9 Final replat, Lots 124 & 131, Falling Water 57 2.10 Final replat, Lots 144A, 145A, 146A, !47A and 12 147B, Falling Water 61 2.11 Abandoning Lots 1-5 & Lots 12-25, Sunridge 13 Subdivision No. 1, set public hearing for same 62 2.12 Preliminary plat, La Hacienda Addition 62 14 2.13 Appointment of Job Title Appeals Panel 71 2.14 Set public hearing, LLEBG grant funds use 73 15 2.28 Interim Committee for Common Dispatch 76 2.15 Consider naming private road Roberts Trail East 84 16 2.16 Procedures for floodplain contempt actions 85 2.17 Authorize Grantworks to begin grant application 17 process on behalf of County for 2 grants 102 2.18 Consider proposed Kerr County Park Rules and 18 Regulations and set public hearing on same 110 2.19 Kerr County Parks maintenance and procedures 117 19 2.20 Reappoint Board of Directors of Kerr County Juvenile Facility Corporation 125 20 2.21 Appoint citizens committee to review landfill sites 126 21 2.23 Set schedule for Budget Workshops 131 2.24 Discuss furnishings for Courthouse renovation 134 22 2.25 PUBLIC HEARING - Flood Damage Prevention Order 152 2.26 Adopt Kerr County Flood Damage Prevention Order 154 23 2.22 Discuss approving proposed OSSF Rules & Regs 156 4.1 Action taken on Executive Session matters 181 24 2.27 Formal presentation of Youth Exhibition Center Master Plan by Quorum Architects at Ag Barn 182 25 --- Commissioners Court adjourned 229 3 1 On Monday, June 26, 2000, at 9:00 a.m., a Special Session 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, and the 4 following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. It's 9 o'clock 7 on Monday, morning, June 26th, Year 2000. We will call to 8 order this regular scheduled Special Commissioners Court 9 meeting. Commissioner Williams, I believe you have the 10 honors. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe so. Please 12 rise. 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any 15 citizen wishing to address the Court on an item not listed 16 on the regular agenda may come forward and do so. Is there 17 anyone who would like to address the Court on an item not 18 listed on the regular agenda? Seeing none, we will move 19 directly into the Commissioners' Comments, and we'll begin 20 this morning with Commissioner Letz. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Surprise, no comments. I 22 can't think of any. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is a surprise. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Want to give us just a -- 25 five seconds on the Region J meeting last week? 4 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I have to. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: You don't have to. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm so tired of Region J 4 at the moment -- no. Region J, we met in -- at Del Rio for 5 two days last Thursday and Friday. We're progressing. We 6 did have a good dinner, though, I will say, at Mama 7 Crosby's; that was the highlight of the trip. But -- well, 8 some good came of it. The -- we're progressing. We're at 9 the point right now where we're spending most of our time 10 working on recommendations for the next planning phase and 11 trying to figure out all the problems we had this time 12 around. And a lot of those are going back to things we've 13 all heard many times, problems with the study of the Trinity 14 Aquifer, not having enough data on the Trinity Aquifer. 15 And, overall, this whole process was pushed so much by time, 16 there's a lot of things that we're just basically shelving 17 and putting off until the next 5-year planning phase. 18 One of the problems which is real 19 frustrating, we came up with probably early in the month and 20 discussed again, are some of the demand numbers. There was 21 errors in the data we received from Texas Water Development 22 Board. That information -- it was -- we've appealed the 23 population projections originally and were successful on 24 that appeal, but there were some other numbers in there that 25 were wrong that no one caught, and we assumed that the 5 1 numbers we were getting from Water Development Board were 2 correct. They were not correct; they were way off for Kerr 3 County, so we're having to do the plan with the wrong 4 numbers, because we can't go back and amend the other 5 numbers without going to the full board of the Water 6 Development Board to get approval, and there's no time to 7 get that done. So, we're putting in an addendum to the plan 8 to address that demand problem. So, the things like that 9 are frustrating at the moment, but a lot of it is just due 10 to the Legislature putting a timeline on this whole process. 11 And now that we're at the end of the process, the problems 12 are developing because of that short timeframe. But, that's 13 basically where we are. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A long two-day meeting. 16 And we'll be meeting again in Bandera August 3rd, and that 17 will be the meeting where we will set the public hearings. 18 We're going to have a public hearing, probably both in 19 Kerrville, and probably the other one's going to be in Del 20 Rio, is our current plan. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That makes me want to 23 go. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No comments, Judge. 6 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I have -- I 3 have a couple. This last Saturday, I was proud to attend an 4 A.A.U. track meet -- the Austin Area track meet, A.A.U., 5 over in Llano, Texas, and we had three kids that qualified, 6 three Kerrville kids that qualified out of there that will 7 go this weekend to the South Texas Regional track meet in 8 San Antonio. And from there, if they qualify, they go to 9 the national finals in Orlando. And my son is one of those. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Great. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're real proud 12 of him. The only other thing is Item Number 22, I had a 13 phone call from the public this morning asking if we could 14 possibly put that item off until 1:00 or 1:30 this 15 afternoon, or -- you know, if we're here at that time. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Set a time, you mean? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Are you asking that we 19 set a time? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Set a time so that the 21 public could possibly be here. And, Commissioner Letz, what 22 was your thoughts about -- about the -- what we were talking 23 earlier, and possibly if we could break for lunch, maybe we 24 could just have a -- a real live lunch, and come back in at 25 2 o'clock -- try to get all this other stuff knocked out, 7 1 and come back at 2 o'clock for the hearing and pick that 2 item up at that time. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To expand on that, to 4 break at 12 o'clock and come back at 1:45 or 2:00, rather 5 than -- because we're going to be here most of the day, 6 anyway, it looks like; we've got a 4 o'clock meeting. So, 7 why not just fill in that time from 2:00 to 4:00, as opposed 8 to having a short -- another break right in the middle, you 9 know, of that period? I think it's easier to have a longer 10 lunch break rather than two breaks -- two short breaks. We 11 can see how it's going when we get close to noon. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine. We can schedule 13 the O.S.S.F. discussion for 3 o'clock, which is when I'm 14 doing detention hearings down in County Court. 15 (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not fair. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: How does that work? I think 18 that's a wonderful idea, myself. But we'll -- we'll work 19 that out. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can work it out when -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: When the time comes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was my request. 23 Thank you. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing. Yet. 8 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yet. I want to remind 2 everyone of the 4 o'clock scheduled agenda item out at the 3 Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center, which is where the -- 4 where Quorum Architects from Fort Worth will be unveiling 5 for the general public the Master Plan of development of the 6 Youth Exhibition Center. I want to encourage everyone to 7 take the time to come out and hear the presentation. Also, 8 if -- I'm sure most of you have noticed the very attractive 9 display of Kerr County courthouses which is now hanging in 10 the foyer out here in the courthouse. We want to thank Alex 11 Rodriguez of the County's maintenance staff, who did the 12 framing for us out of scrap materials salvaged from the 13 renovation of the Annex. He did a very attractive job on 14 it; it looks very good out there and is a welcome addition 15 to the decor of the courthouse. So, when you see Alex in 16 the courthouse in the next couple of days, please tell him 17 thanks for his -- for his gift to -- to the citizens of Kerr 18 County. 19 With that, let's move into the approval 20 agenda and pay some bills. Mr. Auditor, do we have any 21 bills to pay this month? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 24 questions or comments regarding any of the bills as 25 presented? 9 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I move we pay the 2 bills. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 5 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we pay the 6 bills as recommended by the Auditor. Any further 7 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 8 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 12 Amendment Number 1 pertains to J.P. Number 4. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Bill Ragsdale 14 requisitioned this amendment. He said the J.P. Association 15 is having another school right before the end of the year, 16 so he's asked a budget amendment for the $500 for that 17 purpose. That's his explanation of why he submitted the 18 request. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is to take the place 20 of the seminar next year? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has he already 23 seminar'd this year? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, he has. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I'm just -- 10 1 MR. TOMLINSON: It's an additional school 2 that the J.P. Association -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All the J.P.'s or 4 just one? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: All the J.P.'s. I think -- 6 that's all I know about it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm opposed to it. We 8 budget for conferences; that's one of the items that we 9 should -- you know, we -- pretty much all elected officials 10 go to one conference a year, and they budget and plan for 11 what they're going to. Unless there's something that -- 12 beyond what's being said. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As long as he picks up 14 the CEU's that satisfies the State, you know, and most of 15 us -- I think Fred and them have to travel around a little 16 bit to pick -- he has to pick up -- travel -- do some 17 traveling in different conferences to pick up his, but most 18 of us can pick up ours all at one -- one conference. But 19 who knows? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm not sure, though, that 21 the issue is just getting the minimum in. I mean, that's -- 22 people need to be trained to do their job adequately. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Professionally. More than 25 adequately; professionally and capably. And if he has the 11 1 money in his budget to attend the conference, I'm not sure 2 that we should be in a position of telling him that he 3 doesn't have the right to go to conference. It raises an 4 issue in my mind about whether he needs such a substantial 5 postage budget if, this late in the budget year, he's able 6 to transfer $500 from his postage budget to conferences, but 7 I believe that's an issue for next year's budget, not this 8 particular item. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, I agree with 10 what you said. I -- I question the postage budget, as well, 11 but I think that if the budget monies are there and the 12 elected official thinks this is necessary, then I think -- I 13 would tend to go along with that. But there ought to be -- 14 I would sure like to have seen him here to explain what the 15 thing is. I will make a motion that we approve the budget 16 amendment, but I really think we ought to ask the elected 17 officials, when -- particularly when travel and those kind 18 of things are involved, that the elected official be here to 19 explain what the circumstances are so that there are no 20 questions. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will second the 22 motion. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 24 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 25 Budget Amendment Request No. 1 on behalf of the Justice of 12 1 the Peace Number 4. Any further questions? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One. Does it say 3 where the conference is? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it in Honolulu or 6 anything? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- I don't have any 8 idea. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not for $500, it's not in 10 Honolulu. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: If there are no further 13 questions or comments, all in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Griffin indicated by raised hand that they were in 15 favor of the motion.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed? 17 (Commissioner Letz indicated by raised hand that he was opposed to the motion.) 18 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries, three to one. 20 Budget Amendment Request No. 2 is also from J.P. Number 4. 21 It's for the utilities. Tommy? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: This is related to not 23 having, I think, in the budget process, having the past 24 experience on -- on having two offices in that building. We 25 foresee that for the remainder of the year, we're going to 13 1 need approximately $1,600 to fix the year. So, what I'm 2 proposing is to transfer $1,664.66 from Utilities out of the 3 courthouse budget -- Maintenance budget, to Utilities in 4 J.P. 4's budget. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will these utilities 6 be split equally between J.P. 4 and the Tax Assessor's 7 office? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, they're not. We -- 9 I think we agreed up front that we would charge the 10 utilities to J.P. 4's office. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And this is on the new 13 Annex; it is a first year experience. I move that we 14 approve. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 17 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 18 Budget Amendment Request No. 2 for J.P. 4's utilities. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick comment. Just -- 20 you might remember that we've increased, between these two, 21 the budget out there for J.P. 4. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it would reflect on -- 23 during the budget process. It would show in the change -- 24 in that column, it would show a change. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further comments or 14 1 questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 2 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 6 relates to the County Attorney. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. We -- we had to replace 8 a monitor for one of his clerks, and the County Attorney had 9 no Capital Outlay line item -- or he had a line item, but 10 nothing left in that budget. So, I'm proposing to move $190 11 from Commissioners Court -- or Nondepartmental Contingency 12 to Computer Hardware in the County Attorney's budget. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 16 second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve Budget 17 Amendment Request Number 3 for the County Attorney. All in 18 favor, raise your right hand. 19 (The motion was carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4 23 relates to Commissioners Court. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: We -- this is to pay a 25 current bill from the local paper to -- for $85.67. The 15 1 Notices line item in the Commissioners Court budget is 2 depleted, and so we're recommending that we move $85.67 from 3 Nondepartmental. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz that we approve 8 Budget Amendment Request Number 4 for Commissioners Court. 9 All in favor, raise your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 5 14 relates to the County Auditor. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I totally depleted my 16 line item for office -- for computer supplies. I'm 17 requesting a transfer from Office Supplies of $104.73. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 22 Budget Amendment Request No. 5 for the County Auditor. All 23 in favor, raise your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 6 3 relates to Animal -- Rabies and Animal Control. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Mark Allen is 5 requesting a transfer of $800 from part-time salary to 6 telephone. That is an amendment necessary to finish the 7 fiscal year. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 11 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 12 Budget Amendment Request Number 6 for Rabies and Animal 13 Control. All in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 7 18 relates to Jail Maintenance. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: We have -- we have current 20 bills totaling $2,590.65. I've left that -- that blank, the 21 line item to where I intend to take it from, not knowing 22 where we need to take it from. Contingency in 23 Nondepartmental is depleted. I guess you do have a choice 24 of moving those funds from -- from maybe the -- the Radio 25 budget in the Sheriff's office. That's the only place I see 17 1 that -- that we have excess funds. Otherwise, I would 2 recommend to increase the budget. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you considered 4 the Sheriff's salary line? 5 (Laughter.) 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, he's here. I'm 7 sorry. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Go ahead, Buster. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather take it out of 10 the Radio account than increase the budget, 'cause I don't 11 see that we're going to use that this year. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's in that 13 account right now, in the Radio account? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: There's approximately 15 $145,000. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Should be about $138,000. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: No, that's right. We paid a 19 $12,000 bill out of there. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: We just authorized -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: So, about 130. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: We just authorized up to 23 $50,000, so we should have approximately $60,000 to $70,000 24 unencumbered in that account. 25 (Commissioner Letz raised his hand.) 18 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that motion, 2 if that was a motion. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was a motion. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 5 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve Budget 6 Amendment Request Number 7 for Jail Maintenance, and take 7 the funds in the amount of $2,590.65 for -- from the Radio 8 Communications line item in the current budget. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One question. Will 10 this take us through to the end of the budget, or are there 11 going to be subsequent -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: There will be more. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 14 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 8 19 relates to the District Clerk's Office. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This request is from 21 Linda Uecker, District Clerk, to transfer $3,246.05 from 22 Deputy Clerk Salaries to Part-Time Salaries, and to transfer 23 $390 from Photocopy Expense to Evidence Storage Rent. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the Deputy Clerk, why 19 1 is there excess funds in that account? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe the answer to that 3 is because in last year's budget, we authorized two 4 additional clerks for the District Clerk on the, at that 5 time, erroneous assumption that she would be in her new 6 space by now and we would be needing those. Those two 7 additional persons have obviously not been hired. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because there's no space. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Because there's no space. 10 And there's no -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a real frustration. 14 Moved by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner 15 Griffin, that we approve Budget Amendment Request Number 8 16 for the District Clerk's Office. All in favor, raise your 17 right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 9 is a request from 22 Justice of the Peace Number 2 for computer hardware. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm going to let Dawn Wright 24 present this. I don't know enough background to understand 25 what -- what it is that she wants, and I think she's here to 20 1 do that. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Judge Wright? Good morning. 3 MS. WRIGHT: Okay. I'm requesting $3,000 for 4 two new hard drives. My computer is just a little over a 5 year old, and it's crashed twice, and now it's frozen again. 6 And this is what it did prior to crashing the last time. 7 The people that do the jail's computers and the Sheriff's 8 Department computers came over, took a look at it, and they 9 gave me a bid of $2,900 to replace both hard drives and 10 transfer all of the information that's in there. They're 11 the ones that made my repairs the last time. It crashed -- 12 the first time was in February of this year, and it was $400 13 to replace a mother board and go in and retrieve everything 14 that was in there and replace it. And the second time it 15 crashed again was on -- I don't see the other date, but it 16 was $195 to replace it, this year. Both -- both invoices 17 are for this year. The money that I'm transferring is from 18 software. We opted to wait two more years, because Apollo 19 has said they'll go ahead and service the old software that 20 we have; we're going to wait two years before we replace the 21 software that we're using now. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I -- any explanation as to 23 why this thing is crashing after only a year of service? 24 MS. WRIGHT: I think you probably got -- got 25 what I got from the man that bid on replacing it. He called 21 1 it junk. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Where did we get the 4 computers in the first place? 5 MS. WRIGHT: Computer Ease. You were out one 6 time, and there was -- if you'll recall, they were new and 7 there was an error message that kept coming up about 8 replacing the fan blower, and they were two months old at 9 that time. And I had them come out and look at it; they 10 told me that that fan blower was not supposed to be there. 11 I said, "Well, can you make the error message go away?" And 12 they said, "No, it's not hurting anything." And then I got 13 a bill for that. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me ask a question. 15 This -- the $3,000 will be to replace both computers, right? 16 MS. WRIGHT: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Completely? Monitors, 18 the whole bit? 19 MS. WRIGHT: No -- well, it includes the 20 monitor on here. I don't need monitors, so it will be less 21 than that if I don't go -- these are larger monitors than 22 what I've got, but I don't really have to have the larger 23 monitors. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The reason I ask is 25 that that number -- we should be -- for that number, we can 22 1 replace two computers, any two computers, just about, we've 2 got in the county. 3 MS. WRIGHT: I think that's -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it wouldn't be 5 just be for hard drives. It has to be considerably more 6 than that. I mean, that's a -- sounds like, to me, a new 7 system. 8 MS. WRIGHT: Okay. Well, you've got copies 9 of this. The -- the mother board -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, we don't. 12 MS. WRIGHT: Okay. I brought them up here. 13 I brought the whole packet up here, five of them. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't have it. 15 MS. WRIGHT: The mother board is 27 -- Intel 16 chip-set mother board, $2,700. And then, cats, cabling and 17 correctors, $50; delivery and installation is $150. The 18 total is $2,900 for both of them. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From whom did you get 20 that bid, Judge Wright? 21 MS. WRIGHT: From Computer Services, the 22 people that do everybody out at the Justice Center. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: That must be two mother 24 boards, right? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I -- my point I go 23 1 back to, we could have two brand-new systems with new mother 2 boards, hard drives, two new computer systems, warrantied 3 for a year for that price. That -- that's what I'm trying 4 to understand. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we need to get the 6 J.P. up and running, though, so why don't I suggest that we 7 authorize it, not to exceed what's requested in the 8 amendment. 9 MS. WRIGHT: Okay. I don't have a problem 10 with getting bids on these. This was just one that -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. In fact, as far 12 as I'm concerned, this is the way to go, but I think we need 13 to take a look -- perhaps, Tommy, you and I can take a look 14 at what they're proposing, what they're bidding on, you 15 know, what they are actually including in the bid, as 16 opposed to the contract that we had earlier in the year for 17 new computers at about that same price, and see -- I just 18 want to make sure that we're buying what we need to buy and 19 what we -- and what we got. But, yes, to get them up and 20 running, I would certainly go along with saying that not to 21 exceed this amount, but let's scrub the requirement. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Is there a problem with the 23 other one? Or is there just a problem with one? 24 MS. WRIGHT: Both of them. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move the 24 1 budget amendment request in the amount of $3,000 for J.P. 2, 2 with the understanding that we look and see whether or not 3 all of that is necessary to do what needs to be done. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And the form of the 5 bid is what -- since we didn't get copies of it, I would 6 like to see a copy of the bid and have time to go through 7 it, maybe talk to the computer guys and make sure that we're 8 getting what we really need, and that for that price, that 9 we're getting everything that we should. That's even more 10 important. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a second? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 14 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 15 Budget Amendment Request Number 2 in the amount of not to 16 exceed $3,000, with the understanding that Commissioner 17 Griffin and the Auditor will review the -- the bid and 18 specifications. Any further questions or comments? If not, 19 all in favor, raise your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 24 MS. WRIGHT: Thank you. I'll get with you. 25 You've got -- 25 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just leave copies of 2 that other. 3 MS. WRIGHT: Okay. You've got -- there's 4 details on all the repairs that have been made. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 6 MS. WRIGHT: And the quote -- there's five 7 sets of them in there. But I'll go leave another one. 8 Thank you. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Auditor, do we have any 11 late bills? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, I don't. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. At this time, I'd 14 entertain a motion to approve and accept the monthly 15 reports. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 19 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve and accept 20 the monthly reports. Any further discussion? If not, all 21 in favor, raise your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. All right. 26 1 Let's swing into the consideration agenda. Item Number 1, 2 set a public hearing date to consider vacating, abandoning, 3 and discontinuing maintenance on Ace Reid Road in Precinct 4 1. Commissioner Baldwin. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I'll -- I 6 think I can take this thing. As y'all remember, the County 7 went out and resurfaced Ace Reid Road, I think in 1997. 8 Along comes a new owner, and not aware of rules and 9 regulations -- I had a long visit with her last week. She 10 just wasn't aware of -- of how -- how the program works of 11 gating a public road. So, she put in a gate, and -- and we 12 addressed that last time and told her that -- that she 13 couldn't do that kind of thing. So, in visiting with the 14 County Engineer, his -- one of his concerns was of setting a 15 precedent of -- of fixing a road, owner putting a gate on 16 it, and then coming in and wanting us to abandon it. And 17 there may be a few of them out there like that. I think, 18 more important, the precedent that has been set, 19 particularly on this road, is that we're maintaining a 20 personal driveway. There's one residence on that road. 21 It's a long road. We're maintaining a person's driveway. 22 So, you know, the more -- so I'm in favor of abandoning the 23 road and turning it back over to the private property owner. 24 There are a couple of questions I have, and I think that -- 25 when these issues come up, I think that we -- if this Court 27 1 would just take them one at a time, I think that we can make 2 those kind of decisions. Sometimes it will be tough, but I 3 don't -- you know, as far as setting a precedent, 4 personally, I don't see that, but I do see a precedent set 5 that we're maintaining private driveways. My concern is -- 6 and it's kind of a -- it's really none of my business, but 7 it is -- it's a personal concern, is that Mrs. Spencer, when 8 you go through that gate, you go through someone else's 9 property to get to her house. And if we abandon that road 10 and turn it back into the private -- private property, does 11 she -- is she guaranteeing -- guaranteed the ingress/egress? 12 That's up to her, of course, but I have a hard time doing 13 that without some kind of assurance that she has -- has 14 that. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Question. Do all of 16 the landowners who are served by that road have to agree to 17 the abandonment? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So that would be part 20 of this process. There's only two owners, as I understand? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's two. They 22 both have agreed. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And they both have 24 agreed. And my second question is, is can -- is there a way 25 that we can indicate that, once abandoned, that it's 28 1 abandoned? Because I can see the thing -- about the time 2 the road starts to need maintenance, the property owners may 3 say, well, hey, let's go to the Court and see if we can get 4 -- get the roads to county standards; let's go see if we can 5 get it taken into the system so it can be maintained. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I can say, as long 7 as I'm here, it will be abandoned. I don't know what 8 happens after me. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, along that same 10 line there, I don't know if that road -- you know, the 11 condition of that road when it was built and when it was -- 12 how it was accepted, but if it's abandoned and then if it is 13 to come back, brought unto the current standards at that 14 time, that road likely would not meet those requirements. 15 So, if it's ever to go back to the County, it's going to 16 have to probably have a tremendous amount of money spent to 17 get it to the standards, 'cause they're a lot stiffer now 18 than they were back then. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The document we had 20 would indicate that the road's in pretty good shape, because 21 in 1997 we spent over $16,000 -- $16,500. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But it still would 24 have to be brought to the county -- to the then county 25 standards. 29 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The base requirements 2 have changed a lot since that road was constructed 3 originally. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Actually, more was 5 spent than that; almost $23,000 was spent, because 6 Mrs. Spencer paid $6,500 herself. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I've forgotten; how 8 long is the road, roughly? 9 MS. SPENCER: Two miles. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have a written petition 11 from Mrs. Spencer and Mr. Brown requesting -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have a letter here 13 from Mr. Brown. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Mrs. Spencer is 16 sitting there. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Both landowners. I think the 18 statute requires a petition. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's right. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we can move ahead, 21 but I think that we may have to have a written petition 22 requesting abandonment and acknowledging that the County 23 will have no further responsibility for maintenance before 24 we can do the public hearing. I don't have any problem 25 setting a public hearing today, but I think we need a 30 1 petition before we actually abandon the road. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't -- well, 3 okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is -- when does 5 the public hearing -- what is the -- is it a two-week time 6 frame? I don't know. 7 MS. BARBEE: According to Ilse, for 8 publication -- 9 MS. SOVIL: Set it on the 24th with the other 10 public hearings. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: July the 24th? I move 12 we set a public hearing for the abandonment of Ace Reid Road 13 for July the 24th at -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: When was the other one 15 scheduled? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the other one was 17 scheduled at 10:00. Make this one probably 10:30? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 10:30. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does Madge Reid still 20 live on this road? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No longer. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do I have a second? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 25 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we set a 31 1 public hearing for the abandonment of Ace Reid Road for the 2 24th of July, Year 2000, at 10:30 a.m., in the Kerr County 3 Courthouse, which public hearing will be subject to receipt 4 of a written petition from the landowners requesting 5 abandonment. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor, 6 raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. 11 Number 2, consider variance to Kerr County Underground 12 Permit on Verde Park Boulevard requested by Wiedenfeld 13 Waterworks. Mr. Johnston. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't see Charlie here. We 15 received a request for a variance from our Subdivision Rules 16 for the depth of installing a pipe, water pipe, and I think 17 this is the appropriate place to grant a variance to those. 18 Not -- not our office. My only comment would be, we have 19 granted a few of these in the past, and sometimes they are 20 solid rock -- what they claim are solid rock, but sometimes 21 they're not. Depends on what -- when they get to digging, 22 it may not be. I'd like some verification that it is. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the area 24 where -- in Verde Park Estates where there apparently was a 25 major pipe problem and significant leakage or ruptures and 32 1 so forth? Is this the same area, and that's why he's 2 replacing this? 3 MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not aware of that. I'm 4 sure it's capacity or bad pipes. It's -- the water tank 5 looks like it's down the road. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall one other 7 instance, although it was in Precinct 2. I think it was 8 right on the line between Precinct 2 and Precinct 1, 9 where -- I don't know if the variance was requested; I don't 10 recall, but the pipe was installed too close to the surface 11 and wasn't taken proper care of. You and I went out to take 12 a look at it one time. My concern about this request for a 13 variance would be similar to yours, in that we don't have 14 any reason to believe that the pipe cannot be laid to the 15 depth that the specifications -- our rules and regulations 16 require. There's been no submission of any proof to that, 17 and before I'm going to vote for -- or even offer it up as a 18 -- as a motion, I'd like to see some evidence that we have 19 attempted to bury that pipe at that length -- at that depth. 20 Some boring samples or something that tells me that we 21 cannot do that, and then come back and tell us. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, it's also a matter of 23 just having the proper equipment to install it. I mean, the 24 other utilities around have -- have no problem installing it 25 at the depth required. 33 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you think it's 2 only equipment, I guess he needs to get the equipment. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Franklin, he wants to 4 put it at 24 inches. What's our rules? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Thirty-six to the top of the 6 pipe. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, another foot. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: We're talking about a foot. 9 MR. ODOM: And T.N.R.C.C. got 2 foot of cover 10 plus the pipe, so I think we're a little bit deeper, like 11 Kerrville. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Twenty-four inches of 13 cover. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: That's probably the minimum 15 number T.N.R.C.C. requires. Ours, we have a little deeper, 16 but we're the same as the City of Kerrville. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You know, my thought 18 on this is that -- well, I'm not against granting some kind 19 of variance if it really is warranted and you've got solid 20 rock or whatever, but I think this should be demonstrated to 21 your satisfaction. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The County Engineer's 24 satisfaction that, indeed, that the -- that the variance is 25 reasonable to consider by the Court, before it comes to the 34 1 Court. In other words -- and I don't know what that takes, 2 whether it's boring samples or sample digs or with a 3 trenching machine or something, but something that makes you 4 comfortable that -- 5 MR. JOHNSTON: In the past, when we've 6 granted variances, they don't call us until the pipes are 7 already installed. We don't actually see it when they're 8 out there digging it, unless we just happen to wander by and 9 see them doing it. They're supposed to call us and let us 10 inspect it, but I don't think in any case they have. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I read this letter 13 correctly, there are two different requests, are there not? 14 One is for permission to use the right-of-way for placement 15 of the pipe, and the other is for a variance in terms of the 16 depth of the pipe. Is that correct? 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, using the edge of the 18 right-of-way, within 3 foot of the right-of-way, you don't 19 need a variance for that, I don't think. That's part of -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. No, he's asking 21 for approval to do that. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: That's already acceptable in 23 our rules. 24 MR. ODOM: From 0 to 4 feet. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Zero to 4 feet. 35 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I think I would 2 like to see us defer this until you, Franklin, the County 3 Engineer have had a chance -- 4 MR. JOHNSTON: See some actual data from the 5 field? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Something that you can 7 say that, yes, this is a reasonable request, because it's in 8 solid rock; 24-inch depth doesn't create any hazard or 9 potential for -- 10 MR. JOHNSTON: If it were solid rock, we 11 wouldn't have any, you know, reason to dig into it and 12 damage the pipe. If they're capped in concrete, like the 13 golf course, it would be adequate, but if it's not, no 14 reason not to do it. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, I think we ought 16 to defer it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we have a motion to 19 that effect? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll move that we 21 defer it back to the County Engineer for further discussion 22 and submission of some evidence that would warrant granting 23 a variance. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll second that. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 36 1 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we table 2 this request and refer it back to the County Engineer for 3 further investigation and -- and discussion. Any further 4 discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 9 3 is consider and discuss report of off-system bridge 10 inspections performed by the Texas Department of 11 Transportation. Mr. Odom, are you going to take this one? 12 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, I'll take this one. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 14 MR. ODOM: I was requested by the Court to 15 give a report. September of '99, there was a bridge report 16 that was finally, I think, passed down to the Judge within 17 the last 30 days or so after they had it. And, of course, 18 our budget was already set. But this is my analysis of 19 what -- what they've had. I was asked to give an 20 approximation of cost, and that's what we did. This is the 21 bridge report. Item Number 1 there were of sites that need 22 delineators and/or flood gauge replaced. We've ordered the 23 white plastic delineators with orange reflectors and a 24 flexible base. These are not covered on the material list 25 TexDot is to furnish. They are supposed to furnish signs, 37 1 hardware, and poles, but not these. And that cost was 2 approximately $1,120. 3 Item 2, TexDot suggested that we install 4 curbs on both sides of the bridge at two sites, and I 5 estimated a cost of about $2,000. You could either put 6 curbs or bollards down, sort of like Lemos Street, same 7 thing the State does there -- or a curb. Most of these 8 sites that we have are actually not bridges; they're 9 low-water crossings, but a lot of them are in the Guadalupe 10 River. And that's the last thing that you -- and I'll cover 11 that in one item, but you just can't put guardrails; you'll 12 end up having damage there. But, they're very narrow in 13 most cases. 14 Item 3, the report stated that the old bridge 15 at Johnson Creek just west of Ingram was incorrectly 16 barricaded. This crossing belongs to TexDOT, not Kerr 17 County. That is over by the Ark Theater over there and, 18 that road there -- and the Judge is familiar with that -- 19 that old road there that even goes behind the ballpark is 20 technically still the State's. Well, you and I and -- and 21 Wayne discussed that, and it's actually -- it actually 22 belongs to the property owner. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: It belongs to the Foundation 24 and the ballpark. 25 MR. ODOM: That's right. And -- but the -- 38 1 TexDot's still kept that road there in front of the Ark 2 where you have parking there. That goes up underneath that 3 bridge. And they actually kept that whole thing in case 4 they ever do any re -- reconstruction of that bridge, is 5 what Wayne explained to you and I at that time, when we were 6 out at the ballpark. 7 Number 4, the two sites listed for extension 8 of work have already been torn town or are currently being 9 replaced by TexDOT, and that is the one by Star Ranch; that 10 is probably -- last time I looked at it, we're probably 11 about 70 percent complete on that one. That's probably a 12 pretty good guess. We're at least 80, 85 percent complete 13 on the one on River Road down there back behind. And I am 14 not quite sure why they haven't finished, but they're in 15 good shape on it. But, those were the two sites that they 16 were basically talking about was deteriorated, needing some 17 work. 18 Item 5, two sites need to be cleaned out. 19 One -- one was on Verde -- in Precinct 3; there's some trash 20 up under that low bridge down there at Stoneleigh and Lazy 21 Valley right there. The other one was between the dam and 22 the Park Street road right there. What we found is some 23 obstructions that we will be working on this week, starting 24 tomorrow; we'll probably clean that out, with the exception 25 of the rock. There's excessive rock that's been pushed up 39 1 in there, and maybe broken off in between that distance, and 2 we need basically a track loader. I was looking at a 963, 3 and called Holt to see if they had one, because the depth of 4 that water gets pretty deep in there, and some pretty big 5 rocks. That cost is approximately -- it was $3,100; that's 6 to rent a 963 track loader and to deliver it up here and 7 take it back for a week. And if we did that, then there is 8 a request, and we would use those rocks that we get out of 9 that river right there and put them back up in the park. 10 That could be utilized for that stone -- stone fence. So, I 11 could accomplish two things at one time with that, but I 12 need $3,100 just to rent one. There's a possibility of -- 13 of -- Eddie Taylor up there has got a 943 track loader. We 14 need something that's track -- that's a smaller unit, and 15 I -- I don't know if the depth of the water -- it might be 16 pushing that little old 943, compared to a larger track 17 loader. 18 Number 6, they recommended that we install 19 guardrails on three sides. Other sites were suggested, but 20 they are completely down to Guadalupe requirement, and if we 21 put guardrails on them, in a flood the structures will most 22 likely be damaged. There's no uniform consistency of 23 guardrails in flood-prone areas. In most cases the State 24 does not put railings up because of the damage to its 25 structures. This was not one of those things that they said 40 1 that you must do; they suggested that you would do. But, in 2 most cases, we're -- like I say, you would either have a 3 curb where we have that; some of these structures already 4 have those curbs on them. Some are up out of the flood 5 zone. Peterson Farm Road is one of them. I don't know 6 quite who has authority on that structure. I put my sign in 7 front of the structure and the City puts theirs on the other 8 side of it, so I guess it's no-man's-land. But, I -- I felt 9 like that was something that was feasible. 10 Another one was at -- I believe it's called 11 Center Point Estates out there along the Guadalupe. There's 12 a stream that feeds in there. That one there could use 13 something. It doesn't bother me because it's backwater, so 14 I'm not having the -- that force of water on it. It's 15 something that could be utilized. It's a narrow structure 16 also. There was another site and, I'm sorry, off the top of 17 my head, I don't recall where that one's at, but I believe 18 it was also in Precinct 2. So, you know, we're darned if we 19 do, darned if we don't. It was a suggestion; it's not a 20 mandated type thing, but I think three of these sites are 21 feasible without damage to them, and would be workable 22 under, you know, flood conditions. But, no one's going to 23 cross, but it -- it would be a safety factor. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question on that. Is 25 your proposal to put in guardrails or curbs? 41 1 MR. ODOM: No. On these? Guardrails. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Guardrails. 3 MR. ODOM: And the third site -- and what 4 we're doing -- and you -- you're going to have to have a 5 special footing. It's sort of like Lane Valley, where we 6 had the plates down there. On those, I don't know if I can 7 set them down on top of the curbs. I've got a call in to -- 8 V & G does some of our -- John Purnell does some of our 9 work, and I haven't got an answer back from John. Either 10 you have to place it on the back side of the -- of the curb, 11 and the three sites have curbs on them, but -- so they 12 become expensive when you start dynamiting those things down 13 to the concrete and all, and either you set it on top or you 14 set it on the back side of that wall there. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But these three have 16 curbs already? 17 MR. ODOM: Three have curbs. One -- the one 18 I said I'm going to correct myself. It's in your precinct 19 out there by Mountain Home, the old Highway 41. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 21 MR. ODOM: That structure right there, they 22 recommended having guardrails with turn-downs on them coming 23 off the -- the wall there, and that's feasible there. 24 That's not a flood-prone type area. But it is a safety 25 thing that we could take a look at. That could be done. 42 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 2 MR. ODOM: Number 7, two sites are listed for 3 repair with rip-rap, and we've started the work to fix these 4 areas. We'll most likely be through with it this week. One 5 of them is Lane Valley bridge; it's not anything 6 detrimental. It is a wall site that rip -- the -- that left 7 side there with concrete rip-rap, that comes down. It has a 8 -- it has a wall on it. It's just on the downstream side 9 and just washed out against that. They suggested that one. 10 Another one is that Elm Pass. There was some piers that 11 were ate -- some dirt ate around it. But those piers are 12 down 20 or 25, 30 foot down into bedrock, so it's more of a 13 -- an aesthetic-type thing than it is structural at all. 14 So, we have to work on that. We felt like the water would 15 be down, we could work on it a little bit. Approximate cost 16 there was $400 dollars, which is for some stabilize material 17 that we could get. 18 Number 8, one road was to be load-posted. On 19 last year's report, they told us remove the load-posting 20 sign on this road. Therefore, we had the signs, and they 21 reinstalled -- they give me 90 days to do that. It's -- you 22 know, it depends who the contractor is that's doing this, so 23 I -- we have -- you know, we take it down, we put it up. 24 The total estimated cost is $14,120 to do all of the 25 repairs. We do not have this in our budget, and we would 43 1 only be able to do the least expensive repairs, so it's 2 something that we'll feel our way through and see. If the 3 Court wishes to do something -- you know, to add money, 4 we'll certainly do it. And I assure you that if I can 5 scrape it as much as we can, we will do that. I'm just -- 6 at this point, I'm telling you what I estimate the cost will 7 be. And you've seen my budget. It's right on. It's even 8 going to be down when I get through with my seals, so there 9 is -- I just don't have that type of money right now to -- 10 to go and do all this at one time. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, this is certainly an 12 extra item, that being the result of this audit, and I think 13 it's something we need to take up as part of our budget 14 deliberations. Just in general, what would you say is the 15 state of the bridges in Kerr County? 16 MR. ODOM: I would say the state is safe. 17 None of them -- the two that were unsafe by their standards 18 were -- are being replaced. As we grow, I think it is 19 something that we should look at in the future, and that -- 20 I plan on doing that in the budget process with Special 21 Projects. I think that we should spend some money in the 22 future for some engineer-designed replacement of some of 23 these structures to widen, to accommodate the growth that 24 we've got. And then, from there, till we have those plans 25 and those estimates, we can -- we will plan from there. I 44 1 think, working with the State, we just do not have -- I have 2 no commitment from the State -- and I don't mean that 3 disrespectful -- as far as what their timeline is with some 4 of these off-site bridges, Judge. To get that, it's -- I -- 5 I haven't been able to do that. That comes basically from 6 Austin. But they do have that criteria and they list that. 7 We did have two, and we participated, and we 8 certainly wish to do that. As I get the information, I 9 think that, even though it may not be as logical as some, I 10 think that we should participate. And those that are put 11 off, like Hermann Sons and some of the others I would like 12 to do, I think that in the future, 2003-2004 budget, I plan 13 on looking at that. I haven't done that one. We did the 14 2002 and -3, but that next budget in there, I -- I'm going 15 to approach the Court to -- to look at that and to start 16 participating, maybe, at a higher figure. Maybe we could 17 move some of that, like Hermann Sons and some of the other 18 things, up if we participate higher than the 10 percent. 19 That's possible. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, I have a 21 couple questions. Do any of these projects that you've 22 listed here qualify as special projects by your definition? 23 That's question number one, 'cause you normally fund some 24 special projects. Any of these fall in that category? 25 MR. ODOM: Well, these are mostly repairs, 45 1 with the exception of the Number 4. Those two sites were 2 off-site bridges. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 MR. ODOM: Those would be something that 5 would be special projects, but I believe that we have some 6 out there for widening. I have Y.M.C.A. out there, those 7 children out there -- it's so narrow, the Hermann Sons. But 8 we're looking at five, six hundred thousand dollars, and if 9 we could get the State to participate, we could do that. Or 10 if we had to, we could save money over a period of time in 11 Special Projects, just like we did the High Water Bridge. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the second 13 question is, are there any TexDOT dollars or Federal Highway 14 Fund dollars available that we could tap into for some of 15 these things? 16 MR. ODOM: Not to my knowledge, at this 17 point. They -- the local engineer here doesn't have a lot 18 of input. That comes directly out of Austin and their 19 computer system and ratings. So, the off-site system is 20 pretty tough. It's real tough to get money. Once we reach 21 50,000, we might have a little bit more interest from Austin 22 because of our population, and being able to get some of 23 that money like Comal County and some of the others get. 24 And -- and we're growing; we're getting closer to that 25 point. You see two structures already being replaced. 46 1 We've probably spent $600,000 on these two structures. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's certainly a 3 couple things on here I'd like to see done that would 4 benefit the people in the eastern part of the county. It's 5 just figuring out where we're going to get the funds. 6 MR. ODOM: Well, I think the Judge was saying 7 that he's going to discuss that in the budget process. I 8 would like your support on this, as I can save some money, 9 but right now I need to finish those projects that I've got 10 going, and then what I have left, I certainly will be 11 filling in. But those line items are really tight, and when 12 you look at the audit records you get, I'm right on. And 13 it's fixing to -- it's fixing to go even lower and probably 14 square, but just -- I'll make it. But things like this 15 really hurts, because the budget's tight. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: This was not a request that 17 you shift your priorities. What I asked to you do -- and 18 you did it very well; I want to thank you -- was to take a 19 very technical report and bring it back to us in language 20 that we can understand and begin to impact to the citizens 21 and to the budget. 22 MR. ODOM: This is what I see that we need to 23 do, and this is the dollars associated with it. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question -- yes, I 25 have a couple questions. Of course, on this letter from 47 1 TexDOT to Fred Henneke -- 2 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- it clearly says 4 here in the middle, you're dealing with federal money and 5 you'll do what we tell you to do. But Hermann Sons, is that 6 an off-system bridge? 7 MR. ODOM: That is an off-system bridge. The 8 problem with off-system was that when those -- 9 unfortunately, we had the flood and those children were 10 drowned in that bus, that they went back into the next 11 county and built that high water bridge over there. So, 12 technically, they said -- I don't know what it's called, but 13 it's on the other side there in Comfort. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we have an 15 off-system bridge right in there somewhere. That's either 16 Hermann Sons or -- 17 MR. ODOM: Lane Valley was the other one. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lane Valley. 19 MR. ODOM: And so they went to Lane Valley 20 and built that one, and they said that Hermann Sons had a 21 back way out; Lane Valley had none, with that new high water 22 bridge that they built. The problem is, when water comes 23 up, the road goes -- is inundated, and they never built the 24 road up. And so that was their reasoning, why Hermann Sons 25 was not replaced and Lane Valley was. 48 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- you know, I'm 2 very supportive of if we need to increase our percentage to 3 get the Hermann Sons bridge replaced, because that bridge -- 4 while there is an alternative access, that structure is in 5 very bad shape, and it's heavily used because it's the 6 shortest way to get out. The other route's a very long 7 route. 8 MR. ODOM: A very long route. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not an assess issue, 10 to me; it's a safety issue. 11 MR. ODOM: I assure you that I will look at 12 that. I do understand that. I have a high water bridge 13 coming in, that Sheppard Rees project, and that's what I've 14 budgeted in there, you see, for the next two budgets, that 15 it's going to start to fall into place. Once that's over 16 with, then that 2003-2004 -- and I will be working with the 17 Commissioners next budget year and more will look at that. 18 But it's -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. 20 MR. ODOM: You know, a $600,000 bridge 21 doesn't work too well with a quarter of a million dollars 22 Special Projects, so it takes a little while to -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what you're saying 24 is you're going to take care of Commissioner 4 and 25 Commissioner 1 before you get down to Number 3? 49 1 MR. ODOM: Well, they're in my heart. 2 They're close to my heart. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. I like it 4 a lot. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Unfortunately, they're not in 6 the Schreiner Trust, so -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Too bad. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 9 comments for Leonard? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. Good report. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. We appreciate it. 13 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Number 4. 15 Consider naming Sakewitz, a private road, in accordance with 16 guidelines. Commissioner Letz. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only comment I have 18 is, this is a road that we've been working on trying to get 19 named -- actually, the name changed for some time. Everyone 20 on 911 has approved it; it has been working through probably 21 about 15 months. All the property owners on the road agree 22 with the name. The only thing that I would comment on, I 23 had a call today from Truby regarding a call that she got 24 from T. Sandlin, and she said that Sakewitz Road should be 25 Sakewitz Lane. But -- 50 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Instead of Terrace? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Instead of Terrace, it 3 needs to be Lane. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Lane. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: In Considerations, Jonathan, 6 it says, "Gated at Highway 27." This is a private road? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Private road. MR. 8 HOMILIUS: 9 AUDIENCE: All we're doing is just the name 10 of it, approve the name or change the name for 911. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No public hearing 12 needed. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No public hearing needed. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to do it 15 right now. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do it right now. 17 I make a motion we change the name -- or name the road 18 Sakewitz Lane, Highway 27 -- 19 (Whispered discussion off the record.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sakewitz Lane -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: North. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: North, I'm sorry. I 23 don't like those directions, Larry. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 51 1 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we name the 2 previously unnamed road located on Highway 27 between Center 3 Point and Comfort as Sakewitz Lane North. Any further 4 comments or questions? If not, all in favor, raise your 5 right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 10 5, Franklin, consider final replat for Lots 1 and 2 of 11 Clearview Estates, Unit 2. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a plat of the -- this 13 is a main or boundary line change, updating a structure on 14 one lot. Doesn't involve any roads or infrastructure. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move we approve the 17 final replat of Lots 1 and 2 of Clearview Estates, Unit 2. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 20 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 21 the final replat of Lots 1 and 2 of Clearview Estates, Unit 22 2. Any further comments or questions? If not, all in 23 favor, raise your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 52 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a tax certificate; I 4 think they're required to be filed. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Number 6, 6 consider -- it says final replat, but I believe this is one 7 that's -- 8 MR. JOHNSTON: Should be preliminary. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Preliminary replat of Lots 10 116 through 122, 123-B and 123-C, 136, 138, 139, and 141 of 11 Falling Water, Precinct Number 3. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a -- I'll turn it 13 over to Franklin and the developer in a minute. Only 14 comment I have is that we're handling these individually. 15 It's a large subdivision and it's very confusing to try to 16 look at them all -- all on one plat, so we're -- the 17 recommendation that I had was that we look at them in little 18 areas. It's a lot simpler that way. Franklin? 19 MR. CRENWELGE: 2.6 was actually an amended 20 preliminary. We had a preliminary approved, and one of the 21 suggestions from the Court was that we eliminate a turn, 22 make it a 90-degree turn, but it was going to create too 23 much of a cut in the hillside, so we basically increased -- 24 added another lot into that mix, okay? To cut across that 25 other lot. 53 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are you on the -- 2 MR. JOHNSTON: The lot -- 3 MR. CRENWELGE: That's the other one. 4 Franklin, you got the other page? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't have another page. 6 MR. CRENWELGE: Okay, I'm sorry. This was 7 further down, okay. No, this was -- what we did was, on 8 this one, we -- 9 MR. JOHNSTON: That it's -- 10 MR. CRENWELGE: We had some land up on the 11 north side. It was real difficult to cut Settler's Way 12 along that fence line, so we added 28 acres on the outside 13 of the property line to bring that road where it wouldn't go 14 on the side of the hill. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. This is the 16 amended preliminary? 17 MR. CRENWELGE: Correct. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the one where we 19 expanded the boundary of the subdivision? 20 MR. CRENWELGE: Correct. Correct. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we approve the 22 amended preliminary plat of Falling Water Subdivision, Lots 23 116 to 122, 123-B 123C, 136, 138, 139 and 141. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 25 MR. CRENWELGE: And also there was a request 54 1 for a variance on Lot 153, the road frontage. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's not on this agenda 3 item. 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Something for to you look at. 5 It doesn't have the 200 foot of frontage. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where was it? 7 MR. CRENWELGE: On Lot 153; it's a 5-acre 8 lot. It's 188 feet of frontage. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a -- 10 MR. JOHNSTON: We requested a formal 11 variance, but that is the one that doesn't have the 12 frontage. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's one way to handle 14 it. My recommendation is that we grant a variance on it, 15 but I don't see -- the other option was to put a cul-de-sac 16 there, and that made it worse, in my mind. It -- it's a 17 5-acre lot and it's on a corner right here. It's -- that 18 doesn't meet the 200-foot requirement. And with the -- it's 19 hard to reconfigure. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Isn't that a tough site, 21 though? I mean, somebody coming out of that lot is going to 22 have -- I guess I can see -- 23 MR. CRENWELGE: It's pretty level, 153, drops 24 down to the south. So only one building space. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other option would be -- 55 1 I mean, even if you change it, make it a little bit wider, 2 you still can't get 200 feet. I mean, it couldn't 3 possibly -- you could draw these lines a little different, 4 widen it, and you still can't get it to 200. The intent of 5 that rule is to keep from having flag lots. This is not a 6 flag lot, so I don't have any problems with a variance. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: If they need a formal 8 variance, they can do it at the final. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Final plat. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 12 second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve the revised 13 preliminary replat of Lots 116 through 122, 123-B, 123-C, 14 136, 138, 139, and 141 of Falling Water Subdivision in 15 Precinct 3. Any further questions or comments? If not, all 16 in favor, raise your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 7, 21 consider the preliminary replat for Falling Water Subdi- 22 vision, Lots 64, 65, 90 and 91, into Lots 65-A and 90-A. 23 MR. CRENWELGE: What this is, we're basically 24 combining four lots into two lots. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 56 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 3 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve the 4 preliminary replat for Falling Water Subdivision, Lots 64, 5 65, 90 and 91, into Lots 65-A and 90-A. Any further 6 comments or questions? If not, all in favor, raise your 7 right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 MR. CRENWELGE: 2.8 was a situation that had 12 previously been approved, but that's the one we had to make 13 too big a cut in the hillside. It previously was 8 lots to 14 13, and now it's 9 lots to 14. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll now take up Agenda Item 16 Number 8. 17 MR. CRENWELGE: Okay. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Consider the preliminary 19 replat of Lots 33, 34, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, and 47. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the road's going to 21 go where? 22 MR. CRENWELGE: We're going to cut across 23 Lot 33. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're going to make 25 a curve? 57 1 MR. JOHNSTON: This little vee, that was our 2 objection, so now they're going to be making it a rounded 3 curve. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rounded curve. 5 MR. VOELKEL: We just added Lot 33 into it; 6 that was why it went from 8 to 9 lots. And I left the old 7 way to show the new way. He's going to kind of swap back 8 and forth. I'm Don Voelkel. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This accomplishes what we 10 were trying to do. So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 13 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve the 14 final -- the preliminary replat of Lots 33, 34, 41, 42, 43, 15 44, 45, 46, and 47. Any further comments or questions? If 16 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 21 9, consider the final replat of Lots 124 and 131 of Falling 22 Water Subdivision, Precinct 3. 23 MR. CRENWELGE: What this was is just simply 24 making three lots out of two lots. 25 MR. VOELKEL: And, I've talked with Franklin 58 1 about this -- Don Voelkel. T. Sandlin approved this, but he 2 made it contingent -- or not necessarily; made it a 3 suggestion to add the suffix into Settler's Way. And the 4 way I've shown it is the way it's platted, and we're not 5 changing that road; we're not platting that road. So, I 6 left it the way it was platted. In other words, it just 7 shows on the final plat that it was approved previously as 8 Settler's Way. It doesn't have any other -- 9 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't think the name change 10 would be appropriate on this one, 'cause the actual lots are 11 not -- does not include that road. If they want to change 12 the road, they need to consider the entire subdivision. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to -- on 14 that, we need to do that at one time for all roads in the 15 county. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If it's just a 17 suffix -- and we've discussed this with T. several times out 18 at Road and Bridge -- that we, the Court, need to come up 19 with a way, as Jonathan is saying, of taking care of -- 20 where there's not a name change, but just the addition of 21 the suffix. And I think we've got some ways to do that -- 22 we don't need to go into that now -- where we can attach a 23 list to the plats later on and take care of that. 24 MR. VOELKEL: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, I don't -- do we 59 1 have a motion? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not yet. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are we covered, as far as 4 capacity of the water system? Do we have a letter from 5 T.N.R.C.C.? 6 MR. CRENWELGE: Letter from T.N.R.C.C. that 7 allows 215 lots for this subdivision. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many does this 9 make? How many do these revisions -- 10 MR. JOHNSTON: We're not changing the total. 11 This one added one, but the next one we have will eliminate 12 one, so we're not changing -- 13 MR. CRENWELGE: The total, when all is said 14 and done, will be about 181 to 184 lots. 15 MR. VOELKEL: The letter I just gave the 16 Judge said that the capacity for the system is somewhere 17 between 250 to 290 additional lots over and above what was 18 originally platted, and we're going to be well under that. 19 I don't know, but that's the letter we got back in 20 September, when we did the other ones. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Oh, there's one other item, 22 too. There's a fourth Amendment of Covenants that they -- 23 they want to -- 24 MR. CRENWELGE: It's a -- 25 MR. JOHNSTON: -- file. Right? 60 1 MR. CRENWELGE: Well, it's just an amendment. 2 It's just that we're amending the restrictions on some 3 details on some fencing and some other stuff in there. 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Which includes replatting. 5 MR. CRENWELGE: Well, yeah. Just talks about 6 the replat, that you can't have more than 184 lots. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not part of this. 8 MR. CRENWELGE: No. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's been down there at 10 y'all's board. 11 MR. CRENWELGE: Yes. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: But that would be -- have to 13 be filed here at the courthouse. 14 MR. CRENWELGE: We're filing -- it's just 15 amending the restrictions. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't affect us. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, it does in a way. 18 There's a restriction against replatting. 19 MR. CRENWELGE: 184. It says you can't have 20 more than 184 lots. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: There's the changes right 22 there. The original ones restricted the replatting of lots. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: This one changes -- I mean, 25 that's our fourth amendment we've had. 61 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we approve the 2 replat of Lots 124 and 131. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 5 seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve the final 6 replat of Lots 124 and 131 of Falling Water Subdivision, 7 Precinct 3. Any further discussion? If not, all in favor, 8 raise your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 10 is 13 to consider the final replat of Lots 144-A, 145-A, 146-A, 14 147-A, and 147-B, also in Falling Water Subdivision, 15 Precinct 3. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is one we looked at 17 at our last meeting, as I recall. 18 MR. CRENWELGE: We're taking five lots and 19 making four lots. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are all -- 21 MR. JOHNSTON: 44-A is being eliminated. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That will be a new road 23 there, correct? 24 MR. VOELKEL: No, it's already platted. 25 MR. CRENWELGE: It's platted. 62 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MR. VOELKEL: We're not replatting that. 3 We're just amending that one. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 MR. VOELKEL: Situation where we're moving 6 the lot line and then adding the patent survey lines. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lot lines have been 8 changed to meet the requirements on frontage, cul-de-sac. 9 So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 12 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve the final 13 replat of Lots 144-A, 145-A, 146-A, 147-A, and 147-B of 14 Falling Water Subdivision, Precinct 3. All in favor, raise 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See you next month, 21 Dale. 22 MR. CRENWELGE: See you next month. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're in Larry's area 24 now. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 11, consider 63 1 abandoning Lots 1 through 5 and Lots 12 through 25 of the 2 Sunridge Subdivision No. 1, and consider the preliminary 3 plat of La Hacienda Addition, and to consider setting a 4 public hearing as required for same. Commissioner Griffin. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Did we -- yeah. 6 Let's go ahead and take these separately, just like they're 7 listed here. Franklin, why don't you just go through the -- 8 you know, what the -- what the objective here is and how 9 that's being accomplished. 10 MR. JOHNSTON: In the upper left-hand corner, 11 you see the as-platted. That's the original Sunridge 12 Subdivision plat. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait. Wait just a 14 second. Let's all get on the same page before -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You get that in the -- 16 you get that, actually, at the back of 12 -- no, at the back 17 of -- yeah. It's where the plat is. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, 11 and 12. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 11 and 12 are sort of 20 together. Did you not get one? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably still laying 23 in there on the table. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Here's one. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hope I gave you the right 64 1 one. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: Lee, you might want to come up 3 here, too, and talk about some of this. The as-platted 4 subdivision in the upper left-hand corner, the part with the 5 dark outline is the part that we're talking about 6 abandoning. The part that has Lots 6 through 11 there was a 7 subsequent replat, and those lots were taken into No. 2, 8 right? Sunridge No. 2. 9 (Mr. Voelkel nodded.) 10 MR. JOHNSTON: So, after that, the entire 11 Sunridge will be the part that's in dark, and it will be 12 what we're considering to be abandoned. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Nothing ever was 14 developed there, correct? I mean, there's nothing -- these 15 lots were never sold off separately or anything of that 16 sort? 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Some development of Lot 1, I 18 think. 19 MR. VOELKEL: In Block 1, you'll see there -- 20 Lee Voelkel. Block 1, Lots 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 are -- 21 Dr. Rodriguez owns those lots, so -- and there are 22 improvements on those lots. But, other than that, no. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. But that's 24 part of what we're going to talk about. 25 MR. VOELKEL: That's part of our replat. 65 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Part of our replat. 2 The rest of it has not been developed? 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Not as lots, but there's 4 buildings built on there. Right, Lee? Some outbuildings on 5 there, but not as lots. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Then all of that's 7 going to be combined into -- in one big lot, so-to-speak, as 8 shown on the plat. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: I see some questioning looks; 10 there must be something confusing here. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: I wasn't aware that you could 12 abandon a subdivision if there had been any development in 13 it. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: I think with the approval of 15 the owners, with a public hearing. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All the owners are joining in 17 this request? 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Dr. Rodriguez and La Hacienda 19 own everything, correct? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's only two 21 owners for the whole thing, yes. They would -- they are -- 22 they will join in with the -- and it -- actually, it's a 23 petty good deal. What it does is it turns a whole bunch of 24 little, bitty lots into bigger lots. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 66 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And straightens out 2 the right-of-way for the road, which was -- the road was put 3 in outside of the right-of-way as it exists today, so this 4 will also straighten that out where the road is as-platted. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In Block 1, we're 6 taking what was five lots; is that correct? And making 7 three lots out of it? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's correct. 9 MR. VOELKEL: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of which still 11 don't meet the minimum subdivision standard. 12 MR. VOELKEL: For a water system they do, and 13 these are on a water system. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All of this is on a 16 water system. I'll make a motion that we approve the 17 preliminary plat as submitted. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, we're talking now about 19 abandoning Sunridge. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. We have to -- 21 that's right. It's going to require -- 22 MR. JOHNSTON: We're going to be talking 23 about the preliminary plat in a little more detail. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll make a motion 25 that we -- I guess we approve the abandonment of Sunridge 67 1 and set a public hearing on same. That's what that has to 2 be, the first move. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: When would that public 4 hearing be? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The 24th at 6 11 o'clock? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Do I have a 8 second? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. The only comment 10 I have is that our Subdivision Rules -- current rules are 11 pretty much silent on abandonment, but it's pretty explicit 12 in the Local Government Code, so -- you know. That's -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. That will be 14 the controlling document. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 16 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 17 approve the abandonment of Lots 1 through 5 and Lots 12 18 through 25 of Sunridge Subdivision No. 1 in Precinct 4 and 19 set a public hearing on such abandonment for 11 o'clock a.m. 20 on Monday, July 24th, 2000, here in the Kerr County 21 Courthouse. Any questions or comments? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comment. That this is 23 going to clean up an age-old problem that's been existing 24 out there forever and ever and ever. I thank y'all for 25 doing that. 68 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your 2 right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now I'll make a motion 8 that we approve the preliminary replat of La Hacienda 9 Addition. 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Some comments on that -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I mean preliminary 12 plat. Correct? Preliminary plat. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: The preliminary plat, as 14 drawn, considers the same boundaries as Sunridge that was 15 just abandoned. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But we still have to 17 have a final plat on this if we approve the preliminary, 18 right? 19 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. But -- but La Hacienda 20 also owns some extra -- additional property you see up on 21 top. It says Tract 1, 26 acres remainder. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: That's since this was drawn 24 up, and since Sunridge is now abandoned, they would like to 25 include that as part of the subdivision, so making all that 69 1 into one. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All that big acreage 3 there. 4 MR. VOELKEL: Let me show you a drawing here 5 that might make it -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's not on the 7 agenda. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let me correct one thing. 9 Sunridge is not abandoned, okay? Abandoned after we have 10 the public hearing. So, just to be correct for the record, 11 it's not abandoned. And, while we can take action on the 12 preliminary plat, we obviously could not approve the final 13 plat of La Hacienda Addition until after Sunridge is 14 abandoned, okay? Now, go ahead. 15 MR. VOELKEL: I'm sorry to interrupt. I was 16 just going to bring another sketch that shows you what we're 17 talking about. If you can imagine, the pink there on my 18 sketch is the replat we've presented today -- or the 19 preliminary plat we've presented today. La Hacienda owns 20 these green areas. This is where their major compound is, 21 and this is just raw land here that adjoins the subdivision. 22 In my conversations with Frank and the owner, if it's 23 acceptable, we could come back with a new preliminary plat 24 that includes these tracts so that everything that La 25 Hacienda has is now platted, and all these problems will go 70 1 away. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Since we have to have 3 the public hearing on the abandonment anyway, why don't we 4 do that? Let's come back with -- come back with a -- let's 5 table this preliminary plat and come back with a second 6 preliminary plat -- 7 MR. VOELKEL: Adding these areas. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- at the next 9 meeting, adding all of that. Show that to us, and we can 10 take it up after the public hearing. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Should it be on the 24th or at 12 the next meeting? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it would be probably 14 appropriate to bring in the revised preliminary plat at the 15 next meeting so we can approve that, and then be in a 16 posture to go for final plat after the public hearing on 17 July the 24th. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: If that's what y'all want to 20 do. 21 MR. VOELKEL: That will work fine. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 71 1 MR. VOELKEL: Thank you, sir. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 13, 3 consider and discuss the appointment of an Appeals Panel 4 with regard to the Classification Study. Ada is here on 5 behalf of Barbara Nemec. Let me just explain that the 6 purpose of the panel members is to designate those people 7 who would be available to serve on -- on the Appeals Panel 8 if any County employee desires to appeal their job title. 9 This is only appeals as to job titles. And the philosophy 10 is that the panel would consist of a representative of Nash 11 and Company, probably David Walker, and would be in an 12 advisory capacity, as well. And then there would be at 13 least three members of this panel who would hear the appeal; 14 the department head whose employee was appealing the job 15 description would not be a member of the appeal panel, but 16 certainly would be eligible to come in and -- and give 17 testimony or support on behalf of the employee. So, does 18 anyone have any questions about the concept? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. You said this 20 panel is only for job titles? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- what's the appeal 23 process for job -- job description? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's going to be worked out 25 between the employee, the department head, and Nash. 72 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: And -- I mean, the Court 3 ultimately will have to approve all the job descriptions, so 4 that's the ultimate appeal, if necessary, would be to the 5 job -- would be to the Court. But the job description, 6 itself, needs to be a dynamic process between, really, the 7 employee and the department head, with the advice of the 8 Nash Company people. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why are we calling 11 this panel a Job Description Evaluation Panel? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it -- It should be the 13 Job Title. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, it's the appointment of 16 an Appeals Panel with regard to the job title. Okay. Did 17 you have -- Ada, did you have anything else to add? 18 MS. MARTELON: I don't. Does anyone need a 19 copy? I can read these or not. You can have copies if you 20 don't have one. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Essentially, what we've done 22 is we've designated the elected official, department head, 23 as potential members of the panel, as the people who are 24 most familiar with -- with what goes on in the courthouse, 25 generically. 73 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 2 we appoint the following individuals to be members of the 3 Job Title Appeals Panel: Buster Baldwin, Barbara Nemec, 4 Linda Uecker, Paula Rector, Jannett Pieper, William 5 Hierholzer, Dawn Wright, Glenn Holekamp, and Len Odom. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. I'll second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 8 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve the 9 designated individuals as the members of the Job Title 10 Appeals Panel. Any further discussion? If not, all in 11 favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 16 Ada. Okay. Number 14, set a public hearing and Advisory 17 Board for L.L.E.B.G. grant funds. Sheriff Hierholzer. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is the grant that 19 was applied for before I took office, under Charlie Hicks, 20 the $15,000 grant that they did. I finally -- this is an 21 online grant done by the computer, and I finally found where 22 we were awarded it. But, in the Special Conditions, it does 23 state that the recipient agrees that prior to expenditure of 24 any of the L.L.E.B.G. funds, at least one public hearing 25 will be held regarding the proposed use of the grant funds. 74 1 My understanding is this grant can be used for training or 2 equipment, but we have to have a public hearing on the 3 proposed use of it. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Then we also have to set up 5 an advisory board; is that correct? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It does state that we 7 also -- a previously designated or a newly established 8 advisory board will meet to discuss the proposed uses of the 9 funds. These are nonbinding, but it does state that 10 membership on the advisory board must include a 11 representative from the following, which means local police 12 department or sheriff's department, local prosecutor's 13 office, local court system, local school system, and a local 14 nonprofit educational, religious, or community group active 15 in crime prevention or drug use prevention or treatment. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We really don't have to 17 appoint the advisory board today, but we do have to set a 18 public hearing. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you know what the notice 21 requirement is for that public hearing? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no idea. This is 23 all new to me, and since I wasn't part of the process of 24 applying for this grant, I do not -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How about July the 75 1 24th? 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For purposes of the 4 public hearing, do we get input as to what to use the funds 5 for? Yeah, regarding proposed use of the -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it makes 8 any difference, I mean, because, I mean, the hearing is just 9 to get input. We can still appoint an advisory board. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: What we can do today -- and 11 why don't we do this? Let's set the public hearing today so 12 we can get that process going, and then we can come back at 13 our next meeting, appoint the advisory board. The advisory 14 board would then be in place prior to the public hearing, 15 but we could get some input from -- from the Sheriff and 16 other members of the Court as to the specific individuals on 17 the advisory board. So, do I have a motion to set a public 18 hearing? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. Set the public 20 hearing for July 24th. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: At 11:30? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good time. 23 MS. SOVIL: What time? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 11:30. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do I have a second? 76 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 3 seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we set a public 4 hearing regarding the proposed use of the L.L.E.B.G. grant 5 funds for Monday, July 24th, Year 2000, at 11:30 a.m. Any 6 further comments or questions? If not, all in favor, raise 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: While the Sheriff is here, 12 with the indulgence of the Court, I'd like to take up Item 13 25, which is consider and discuss creating an interim 14 committee for common dispatch between public safety 15 agencies, and appoint Sheriff Hierholzer as the Kerr County 16 representative, authorize the County -- 17 MS. SOVIL: 28. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: 28? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It was added. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: In my book, it's 25. But 21 it's -- 22 MS. SOVIL: Not on your agenda. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's one that was added. And 24 authorize County Judge to begin negotiations for interlocal 25 agreement. Sheriff Hierholzer has taken the initiative to 77 1 get the local public safety agencies, including Kerrville 2 Police Department and Fire Chief, 911, together to talk 3 again about common dispatch, as well as the potential for 4 common communications strategy in the future. They've 5 proceeded far enough down the road that it's time to set up 6 a committee, which we propose to have consist of the head of 7 the Sheriff's Department, Kerrville Police Department, 8 Ingram Marshal, Fire Department, and 911, to study and make 9 recommendations regarding common dispatch. Concurrently 10 with that, we're asking the Court for permission to begin 11 negotiations with the City of Kerrville regarding interlocal 12 agreement as to the construction funding and operation of a 13 common dispatch operation. 14 I will tell you that the -- what's been 15 discussed with the City of Kerrville is to have the 16 interlocal agreement prepared by an outside counsel, someone 17 like Ed McCarthy or Bob Keith, because of time 18 considerations. Obviously, our County Attorney's office is 19 stressed, and City Attorney's office is equally stressed. 20 So we can get this done on a timely basis. Sheriff, do you 21 want to add anything? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You pretty well covered 23 it, Judge. I just think it's something that's definitely 24 needed. I think common dispatch, or central dispatch as you 25 call it, will benefit all the citizens of the county, 78 1 because it will make for a lot better response, a lot better 2 communication between all the emergency providers, all the 3 agencies, and I think in the long run will save on 4 equipment -- from duplication of equipment. I don't know 5 how we'll save right now on personnel. That's just going to 6 be something that we'll have to see what we have in 7 everybody's budget, as far as the number of personnel, but I 8 see great benefits coming out of a centralized dispatch, and 9 I see no downfalls coming out of it. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's been the response from 11 the other law enforcement -- 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The other law 13 enforcement agencies, the fire department, Kerrville Police 14 Department, 911, us, all seem very, very positive of this. 15 The Ingram Marshal's office wasn't in attendance, although 16 they were invited at our last meeting. Their problem is, 17 Rowan right now says his main deal is Ingram can't afford 18 anything, which I have no problem with that; they probably 19 can't. But I still think that Ingram, having a law 20 enforcement agency in this county, needs to have a 21 representative on the board that we finally come up with or 22 whatever. And then we also discussed having a 23 representative on that board from the volunteer fire 24 departments, and even possibly D.P.S., even though D.P.S. 25 won't go in, because this is their district office. But at 79 1 least have a representative to help bring points to view on 2 the final board that's made. 3 But I just -- I see this as a step forward 4 for everybody, communication-wise. We can accomplish a lot 5 of things. And I see, in the long run, one, saving the 6 taxpayers a great deal of money through equipment, and two, 7 providing a lot better service to all the taxpayers, as far 8 as emergency services. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is, you 10 know, congratulations for getting it going, and keep it 11 going. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What kind of motion do 13 we need? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: We need a motion to appoint 15 the Sheriff to the interim committee and a motion to 16 authorize the County Judge to negotiate the interlocal 17 agreement. And, if possible, I'd like to give -- give the 18 County Judge up to $2,500 to spend on -- in legal fees in 19 order to produce the final -- final document. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could it come back to 21 the -- once we get a -- figure out what it's going to be and 22 how it's going to operate, can we come back and then go with 23 the second portion of that? Or does it need to all be done 24 right now? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the -- the thinking is, 80 1 if we're going to hire an outside attorney, I need the 2 authority to hire an outside attorney up to a certain 3 dollar -- like I say, $2,500. That's why I want that now. 4 And I'm not exactly sure how involved he'll -- he or she 5 would be from the beginning. We'd probably need his input 6 in order to jump over some initial hurdles. But it's what 7 the Court wants to do. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, you 9 probably need that leeway to get that legal advice. But I 10 would think that we need to come back in here and talk 11 before we do sign an interlocal agreement. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I've not asked for permission 13 to sign it, I've just asked for permission to negotiate it. 14 It's something that we're going to bring back. I will tell 15 you that, in the last meeting, the mayor was there on behalf 16 of the political side of the city, and Travis Hall was there 17 on behalf of the political side of the 911 Board, and very 18 enthusiastic. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- I guess, you 20 know, if you just give us an update at some point through 21 the process, and we just -- once we end up with an 22 interlocal agreement, it's kind of hard to change at that 23 point, you know. I'm pretty much, I think, trying to figure 24 out what the agreement will be. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What we're really asking 81 1 for is just a good start, at least on an interlocal 2 agreement, so we can start working out some things to move 3 forward. Because at this point we're looking at location 4 for it, we're looking at, you know, how the agencies all 5 contribute to it, and how it would work. And without an 6 attorney's involvement in some way in the -- and the two 7 main entities, City and County, working together through 8 interlocal agreement, or at least working on an interlocal 9 agreement, we're kind of at a standstill. Because we -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You touched on part 11 of a question I have, Sheriff, the timeline. Do you 12 anticipate we would try to put this thing together in time 13 for the forthcoming budget, new budget year, or what? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't really 15 anticipate that we could have it done that soon. I 16 anticipate, with an interlocal agreement getting online, 17 getting some -- some ideas on the building and that, then 18 we'll decide what agency may be the grantee or whatever on 19 applying for some grants to help cover for -- cover all the 20 costs of the building and the technology that's going to go 21 into it, I would assume it will probably be next year before 22 it -- it actually gets a good, solid start. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: The consensus of the group is 24 let's do it, right? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 82 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we'll probably go out for 2 consultants and do bids for equipment and all that. 3 Ms. Bailey? 4 MS. BAILEY: I think that your motion should 5 include not only appointing you to negotiate the contract, 6 but also authorizing to you retain the services of an 7 attorney so you don't have to come back and do that. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. I'll make a 10 motion that we appoint an interim committee to look into 11 communication issues and appoint Sheriff Hierholzer to be 12 our representative on that committee, and authorize 13 expenditure -- or authorize the County Judge to negotiate 14 the interlocal agreement and authority to appoint outside 15 counsel to help in that effort, and finally, to authorize 16 expenditure up to $2,500 to accomplish that, and those funds 17 would come out of the communication -- Radio Communications 18 line item in the Jail Department. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 21 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the County approve 22 establishment of interim committee for a common dispatch 23 between public safety agencies, and appoint Sheriff 24 Hierholzer as the Kerr County representative to such 25 committee, authorize the County Judge to begin negotiations 83 1 for interlocal agreements, and authorize the County Judge to 2 engage outside counsel in an amount not to exceed $2,500 for 3 assistance in such negotiations, such funds to come from the 4 Radio Communications line item in the Sheriff's Department. 5 Let me just say, too, that $2,500 6 contemplates that the City and the County together are going 7 to incur the outside attorney's expenses. What we're going 8 to -- we're not just going to hire a -- go out and get our 9 own hired gun. We're going to hire somebody in common to 10 come in, and pay for the deal as we decide it should be. 11 Any further questions or comments? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only comment I'd like 13 to make is that, in the spirit of open government, that we 14 come back in and report it occasionally, where this thing 15 is. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: No problem. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's just my 18 request. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your 20 right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Let's now 25 take our mid-morning break, and let's return promptly at 10 84 1 minutes till 11:00. 2 (Recess taken from 10:40 to 10:50 a.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. It's 10 minutes 5 till 11:00 on Monday, June 26th. We'll reconvene this 6 special meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. The 7 next item for consideration is Item Number 15, consider and 8 discuss a petition by Marcy Downey of Center Point to name a 9 private, restricted road in Precinct 2 of Kerr County. 10 Commissioner Williams. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Downey has 12 written asking to name a private road, has done the 13 paperwork with 911, and suggested names have come back. The 14 preferred name is Roberts Trail, I believe, and Roberts Way 15 would be the second choice. It appears everything is in 16 order. I would move approval of that request. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Roberts Trail? 18 What's -- what's the suffix? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be -- 20 suffix would be -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: E. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: East, right. Yeah, 23 Roberts Trail East. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 85 1 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve the 2 name of the heretofore unnamed road located in Precinct 2 as 3 Roberts Trail East. Any further comments or questions? If 4 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, on that point, 9 if I may, I didn't get -- quite get a chance to interrupt 10 for a comment. We've been working with 911 and Road and 11 Bridge Department for all these name changes to implement 12 the system that we talked about, where all name changes -- 13 and there's a new form involved, number one. It will always 14 have a 911 signature on it from here on. It will originate 15 at 911, though it's our form. It then goes to Road and 16 Bridge, where Truby will database all of this information so 17 that we have a permanent database for all of the roads in 18 the county eventually, and then it comes to the Court for 19 approval. With Road and Bridge sign-off, it's in the 20 database, and so -- and so I think, after we get these older 21 ones -- these older requests cleaned up, we're going to see 22 a much better way of making sure we don't lose track of -- 23 of all this. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. Next item is Item 25 Number 16, consider and discuss procedures recommended by 86 1 the County Attorney for contempt actions pursuant to 2 citations issued alleging violations of Kerr County 3 Floodplain Regulations. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I will turn it 5 over to the Kerr County Attorney, whose memorandum is 6 attached to the agenda item. Ms. Bailey? 7 MS. BAILEY: Thank you, Commissioner 8 Williams. I realized that I had inadvertently failed to 9 attach the two attachments that the item referred to. The 10 first exhibit I referenced, the Flood Damage Prevention 11 Order, you all presumably already know the contents of that, 12 so I'm not going to copy it five times over again, and also 13 I understand that it is on the Commissioners Court agenda 14 again at 2 o'clock for, I guess, proposed revisions, and we 15 might want to talk about that all at the same time. The 16 second one was simply a form Motion for Contempt Order. 17 This is a proposed form motion. As you can see, it's very 18 simple; it's just the proposed form that would get the 19 process started. 20 To back up a little bit, the Flood Damage 21 Prevention Order was passed -- it -- that order allows us to 22 participate in the National Flood Insurance Program. The -- 23 and, as I say in the memo, the T.N.R.C.C. has published a 24 guidance manual for floodplain administrators which sets out 25 potential negative consequences of a county's failure to 87 1 adequately enforce its floodplain regs. We have not 2 particularly been proactive in enforcing our floodplain 3 regs. And, in the fairly recent past, the County Attorney's 4 office has received a couple of requests from our Floodplain 5 Administrator to -- to take some enforcement actions. 6 In the process of attempting to do that, we 7 discovered that one of the flaws in our current order is 8 that it says it will be considered a contempt of 9 Commissioners Court to not follow the order, but it doesn't 10 set out what that means. So, what I did was I went through 11 the general concept of contempt and tried to craft something 12 that would be a procedure that's fairly simple and 13 straightforward, but would be a procedure whereby this Court 14 could sit as an adjudicative body, hear issues having to do 15 with whether or not a particular person or entity had failed 16 to comply, and then make that determination regarding 17 contempt. And, as you see, I've set out a timeline on Page 18 2 -- starting on Page 2, going on to Page 3. 19 As currently set out under the order, 20 contempt action would proceed whereby first the Floodplain 21 Administrator would file a request for a contempt action 22 with the Kerr County Attorney, and then we would file that 23 with the Court. That's the form motion that I've given you. 24 I have suggested here that we don't determine a timeline for 25 that part of the process, because a lot of times just merely 88 1 the threat of going to court will get people to comply, 2 whereas they've not been complying in the past. 3 Secondly, whenever we decide -- the County 4 Attorney or Floodplain Administrator decides that we're not 5 going to be able to get compliance, even with the threat of 6 going to litigation, then we could file that motion for 7 contempt with the Kerr County Clerk, and the clerk would 8 pass it on to the Judge. That would be considered Day 1 of 9 the process. Within the next day or so, the Kerr County 10 Judge would set a time and date for the hearing -- and I can 11 provide a form order for that -- and that hearing would set 12 the time where the respondent would be required to appear 13 and show cause why they should not be held in contempt for 14 failure to comply with regulations. That's pretty much 15 standard contempt process. Before the person can be held in 16 contempt, they have to be able to be given an opportunity to 17 come, to show cause why perhaps they should not be held in 18 contempt. The date set must be no less than 10 days, no 19 more than 20 days, from the date that the motion is filed 20 with the Judge. So, if I filed something today, the hearing 21 has to be set sometime between 10 days from now and 20 days 22 from now. 23 Immediately after the Judge sets that time 24 and date for hearing, the Kerr County Clerk would be 25 required to send out notices of hearing to the parties and 89 1 their counsel of the date, time, and place of the hearing. 2 At the same time, the Kerr County Clerk would make 3 notification to the employee who publishes the County 4 Commissioners Court agenda that the Court will be in session 5 for this contempt action on that specific date and time and 6 place, and then this would be required to be posted, just as 7 any other session of Commissioners Court, because, of 8 course, it is a public meeting. Then you have the -- the 9 hearing at the prescribed time. 10 We talked about whether or not there's an 11 appeal from that. I would suggest that this not be set on a 12 regular Commissioners Court agenda date, so you might want 13 to discuss when, in general, you would want to have those, 14 or you might want to leave it up to the consideration of the 15 County Judge. I don't anticipate this being a real frequent 16 event, not like something you have to really build into your 17 full-time schedule. But then I've raised a few questions 18 and then given my recommendation on how to handle those. 19 The form of the contempt motion, I've given you that 20 proposed form. I think probably we'll talk to the County 21 Clerk about this, but I think she probably would need to be 22 at least instructed as to which numbering system she -- she 23 needs to use, or if she needs to create a new numbering 24 system for these -- these hearings, since they are before 25 the Commissioners Court, and that's not a body that 90 1 generally hears this kind of court case. 2 As to notice, the -- the order will require 3 the Kerr County Clerk to issue -- it does require the Clerk 4 to issue citation and notice of hearing. This will engender 5 some court costs. We need to address which court costs will 6 be engendered and who will bear the cost in the event of the 7 various possible dispositions of the case. Since the 8 hearing must be between 10 and 20 days from the date of the 9 filing of the motion, I would take from that that we don't 10 contemplate any kind of written answer. I would suggest 11 that we just allow the Clerk's Office to -- to calculate the 12 court costs like it would any other civil case, and that the 13 respondent be required to pay these costs in addition to any 14 assessed penalties if he or she is found to be in contempt. 15 And, of course, if he's not found to be in contempt, then 16 the court costs would not be assessed, just like we do in a 17 criminal case. 18 With respect to the agenda, I've discussed 19 that a little bit; I think it ought to be a different date 20 than a regular session. And the agenda should be posted and 21 prepared and distributed just as the agenda for regular 22 court. Delays and continuance. It's almost a foregone 23 conclusion that there will be requests for delay and 24 continuance. The Floodplain Damage Prevention Order 25 obviously contemplates this to be a pretty rapid process, so 91 1 we don't want to have these continuances for six months, 2 eight months. My suggestion is that whenever there is a 3 request for delay, that it be not more than just a few days 4 or a week. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ilse? 6 MS. BAILEY: Yes? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It seems here to me 8 that you are asking a couple of questions at the bottom of 9 that "Delays and Continuances" -- 10 MS. BAILEY: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- part. What's the 12 answer to those questions that you're asking? 13 MS. BAILEY: All right. In particular, which 14 ones? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "It needs to be 16 established at the outset who will rule on the request." 17 Who will rule on the request? 18 MS. BAILEY: It really practically would have 19 to be the Judge, because otherwise you have to convene the 20 whole Court into session to make a ruling, and then that 21 puts for a lot of delay. So, my recommendation would be 22 that the Judge be delegated that duty, to just make a ruling 23 on his own -- own volition about delays, and then I guess if 24 someone has a compliant about that ruling, they can bring it 25 up at the time of the hearing. 92 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the criteria on 2 granting the continuance? 3 MS. BAILEY: Certainly, it ought to be pretty 4 narrow. I mean, I really think that the whole order is -- 5 is really directed towards a rapid resolution. So, you 6 know, if there's a death in someone's family, of course, 7 you, you know, really pretty much have to give them a delay. 8 But, "I think that we need more time to look into the 9 issues" is probably not a good basis for delay, because by 10 the time it's been brought to this Court, it's been bandied 11 back and forth between the -- the Floodplain Administrator 12 and the -- the person that's become -- that we're seeking to 13 hold the contempt, and probably the County Attorney a pretty 14 good bit, so it's really down to the -- you know, let's get 15 something down about it. So, I just wanted to make sure 16 that that was considered. I can't really give you a 17 specific answer, because there will always be different 18 reasons for continuance, but I'd urge it to be real narrowly 19 defined. 20 Then, under Conduct and Outcome of the 21 Hearing, in order to prevent this from turning into a really 22 long, drawn-out affair, I would suggest that it be very 23 informal and that each side be given just a certain amount 24 of time, 5 or 10 minutes, to set out their information in 25 narrative form. If they want to introduce documents and so 93 1 forth, I don't think that we need to really rely too much -- 2 too heavily on the Rules of Evidence. I think the Judge can 3 assist with determinations about what's really stuff that 4 shouldn't be considered, as far as not admissible, and what 5 should be considered. And that will, again, keep the 6 process from getting really cumbersome. At the conclusion 7 of the hearing, the Court will deliberate, reach a 8 conclusion regarding the existence of contempt based on a 9 standard of clear and convincing evidence. I recommend 10 clear and convincing evidence, which is a little bit more 11 than a preponderance of the evidence, but a little bit less 12 than beyond a reasonable doubt, because that seems to be the 13 standard that's very frequently used in administrative 14 hearings. 15 So, that -- that's my recommendation. If you 16 have any questions about that, we can talk about it. If the 17 Court finds that there was contempt, I think then, after 18 that, they should -- instead of trying to reach the contempt 19 and punishment in the same deliberation, I think first there 20 ought to be decision about contempt, and then if you find 21 yes, then again go back and deliberate about what the 22 penalty ought to be. And you could ask for recommendations 23 from both sides of that. 24 Appeal. There's no provision in the Flood 25 Damage Prevention Order about this order being appealable, 94 1 but, given that this is something -- a type of proceeding 2 that could have pretty heavy penalties, I think that -- that 3 we probably ought to permit for an appeal, but I'm not 4 exactly sure where it goes to. My recommendation would be 5 that, since this is a court of record and we have a court 6 reporter, that an appeal from here would probably end up 7 going to the Court of Appeals in San Antonio, rather than to 8 a district court here. But, if anyone has any other 9 thoughts about that, again, we can discuss that. 10 I'd recommend that you consider suspending 11 sentences, because, after all, the point here is not to make 12 money off the citizens, but to get compliance. And if you 13 can find someone's in contempt for not having complied, but 14 give them a certain amount of time to come into compliance, 15 then we've been able to achieve what we want to achieve, and 16 that's probably more what we want to do than to worry about 17 how much penalties someone is going to have to pay. Because 18 if they're not in compliance, they're still going to have to 19 come into compliance. 20 There is a potential for people to be placed 21 in jail, so I think the Constitution requires that we allow 22 for an appointed attorney, which brings up the question of 23 where is that budget going to come from. The only way that 24 you could get around that is if you determine at the outset 25 of a hearing, before you hear any evidence, that under no 95 1 circumstances will you put the person in jail. At that 2 point, then, they're not at risk of losing their liberty and 3 you're not required to appoint an attorney. And I know how 4 y'all feel about that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, didn't I read in 6 here somewhere that the -- the jail time was 24 hours? 7 MS. BAILEY: Yes. But it could -- I think it 8 could be on a multiple-time basis, because, for instance, if 9 I have put an encroachment in the floodplain and you find 10 that I'm in contempt and you assess 24 hours jail, and then 11 I get out of jail and I still don't get it fixed, I could be 12 back in here the next week. So, it's a loss of liberty, and 13 basically the Constitution requires that any loss of liberty 14 is so significant that certainly this person is entitled to 15 be represented by an attorney; and if they're indigent, then 16 we have to provide for that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also a Constitution 18 violation. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Floodplain violators who are 20 indigent. 21 MS. BAILEY: Well, that would be my thought, 22 but we just have to theoretically, you know, have -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think I'd 24 leave that decision up to this bunch of rednecks. 25 (Laughter.) 96 1 MS. BAILEY: As I said, these are just, you 2 know, my observations and recommendations, if -- if you all 3 have any questions about it. My other question is, I have 4 not reviewed the proposed floodplain -- Flood Damage 5 Prevention Order that's on the agenda at 2 o'clock today. 6 If there is a different -- if there are going to be changes 7 in the enforcement part of the order, that might obviate 8 some of these issues altogether. That would be another way 9 to approach it, is just change the enforcement part of that. 10 But the problem is, you're still going to get into -- there 11 has to be a provision for a court to enforce it. And, if it 12 comes to this Court, you're going to have to have 13 procedures. So, unless you can put that enforcement over 14 into another court that already has procedures set, you're 15 pretty much going to be dealing with those kinds of 16 questions. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where do we go from -- I 18 mean, what are we doing after this? Are we going to -- 19 MS. BAILEY: Well, the reason that this has 20 been brought up right now is that I have one case in 21 particular, and possibly another one, that I really do need 22 to bring to the Court for contempt, because they have -- 23 particular individuals have not complied after a year or so 24 of -- of urging and requesting. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is your intent just to 97 1 get feedback from us and then go and write an order for us 2 for our next Commissioners Court meeting? 3 MS. BAILEY: I think that's probably the best 4 way, yeah. What this could turn into, instead of questions 5 and discussion, is a set of rules. And, just by virtue of 6 the way court processes go, probably it wouldn't -- the 7 first hearing, you'll realize that there are some other 8 rules that need to be added to it, but as a preliminary set 9 of rules on how to proceed. So, probably, if you approve 10 the recommendations that are made in here, then I would go 11 back and set it up as a set of rules. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question I have is, 13 I guess, on the appeal. It goes to the Fourth Court of 14 Appeals in San Antonio? Seems like that's a big step. 15 MS. BAILEY: Well, I thought so too, but my 16 -- my hesitation on that is that, generally, procedure -- 17 proceedings in courts of record, that's where they go for 18 appeals. You don't go to another trial court level, 'cause 19 we're basically a trial court level here. And another trial 20 court wouldn't necessarily have a power of review over 21 another trial court in the same county. That's really the 22 only entity that has a power of review and power to force 23 this Court to make changes in its decisions. If this were 24 not a court of record, then it would be reviewable probably 25 in the County Court at Law. At least that's the way 98 1 proceedings from the Justice of the Peace court goes. If 2 you lose in Justice of the Peace court, you go to County 3 Court at Law. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess if it goes to the 5 Fourth Court of Appeals in San Antonio, are there -- are we 6 meeting, I guess, all the procedural requirements that -- 7 that would be necessary? 8 MS. BAILEY: That's what I'm trying to -- I'm 9 trying to set up something that the procedures would -- it's 10 a real kind of nebulous sort of situation, because I'm not 11 familiar with this process having been set up and a set of 12 rules where a case has actually gone to an appeal. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Overall, I mean, I don't 14 -- they look fine. 15 MS. BAILEY: What I can do is I will try to 16 get with another few counties and see if anybody has this 17 process, with respect to the appeal part of it. And I 18 can -- I can draft up all the rest of the rules, if you 19 don't have any questions about the rest of them, and then if 20 I decide there's another way to do that appeals part, I can 21 give you alternate rules to approve. You know, either 22 approve this one or that one at the next -- next time it 23 comes up. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think, personally, 25 it's well-drafted, but I would be interested in hearing 99 1 Judge Henneke's opinion of -- and his comments on it, since 2 he's going to be sitting here with the rest of us helping to 3 make these decisions. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: The procedural seems to flow. 5 I mean, the question is whether the Court wants to delegate 6 to me any ability to make a decision or not without having 7 to call a meeting. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that would be 9 on a continuance, right? Basically? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Setting dates of hearings and 11 things like that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I don't know any 13 other way to do it. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. I 15 don't have any problem. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Open government says all 17 meetings to decide what day we want to have a meeting, or 18 whether we want to. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think leave it up to 20 the Judge. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think I'd let the 22 Judge set the continuances. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we need to ask the 24 County Attorney's office to look at the proposed order 25 before this afternoon, because I'm not sure that we're in 100 1 the same ballpark right now. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because of the -- 3 MS. BAILEY: The new proposed order? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- proposed order. 5 MS. BAILEY: Yeah, I'd certainly need to 6 review that, because if you're going to make any changes in 7 it that may affect these changes -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Then could you come 9 back to us with a proposed set of rules? 10 MS. BAILEY: Proposed set of rules. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Preliminary set of 12 rules to go with. 13 MS. BAILEY: Right, right. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Makes sense. 15 MS. BAILEY: That's what I'll do. I'll 16 review this in conjunction with the proposed new 17 floodplain -- Flood Damage Prevention Rules, and will try to 18 come back in the next Commissioners Court meeting or the one 19 after that with a proposed set of rules that address the 20 questions that have been raised and the things that are in 21 there. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Before you depart -- 25 MS. BAILEY: Yes, sir? 101 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have an Executive Session 2 scheduled today. Do you know what time? Do we want to kind 3 of set a time to have that? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it a long one or short 5 one? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think it will be too 7 long. 8 MS. BAILEY: Should be relatively short. I'm 9 available this afternoon. Whenever you want to, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right after lunch? 11 First thing after lunch; that way we can convene -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:45? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Whatever the time is. 14 Just do it as soon as we come back, do that first and get 15 that out of the way, and then get back in the agenda. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to do that before 17 septic tanks? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Whatever. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, 2 o'clock we have a 20 hearing; that's the time. I mean, I'd like the extra little 21 bit of break at lunch. I don't mind coming back at 1:45. I 22 don't want to come back a lot earlier than that. 1:30 would 23 be okay. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Break at noon? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Break at noon. The question 102 1 is, do we want to come back at 1:45 for our Executive 2 Session, and then public hearing at 2:00, and then -- and 3 take up whatever business we have left over after the public 4 hearing? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's a good 6 idea. 7 MS. BAILEY: 1:45? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: 1:45. Thank you. 9 MS. BAILEY: I'll be here. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 17, 11 consider and discuss authorizing Grantworks of Austin, 12 Texas, to begin the grant application process on behalf of 13 Kerr County for two grants for the purpose of developing the 14 wastewater collection system to serve a segment of Kerrville 15 South in the vicinity of Ranchero Road. Commissioner 16 Williams. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eric, good to see you 18 again. Let me pass this out to the Court. First of all, 19 before we get started, again, it was brought to my attention 20 here very recently that -- I think Eric had identified the 21 possibility of a couple of additional grants that were out 22 there, some dollars that are going unused which we might be 23 able to qualify for if we were to apply, the purpose of 24 which would be to develop a sewer collection system, and 25 second grant would be to assist those who would hook onto it 103 1 with the hook-up fees and so forth. The idea was that these 2 monies could potentially be used in an area where there 3 already exists a trunk line into the city sewer system. Of 4 course, this would require our engaging the City of 5 Kerrville into discussions to have them treat the wastewater 6 that was collected in this particular area, and they, of 7 course, evidenced repeatedly their willingness to do that. 8 What we're talking about is monies available to work up a 9 collection system for some of the homes that are on septics 10 in the vicinity of Ranchero Road, and using that intercepter 11 line or trunk line, whatever you want to call it, from the 12 Nimitz School that intersects with the trunk line going down 13 Highway 16. So, without further ado -- and we'll ask the 14 questions later -- I would ask Eric to give us some feel for 15 what these are all about and how he believes that we may be 16 eligible for them, and then we'll discuss the letter that I 17 just gave you that came from U.G.R.A. in support of that -- 18 of this particular initiative. Eric, thank you. 19 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you, Commissioner 20 Williams, Court. Thank you for having me here today. This 21 actually came about during the process of putting together 22 the -- the Colonia Planning application that we submitted a 23 few months ago. We should actually have -- a word on that, 24 as a side note. Within the next week or two -- they 25 restored them last week, so we ought to have an idea of 104 1 whether this went through from the State. 2 In doing so, I met with Jim Brown over at the 3 U.G.R.A., and he expressed that there were some definite 4 needs for sewer -- sewer system improvements, as well as 5 other improvements in his -- to his knowledge, of which 6 Kerrville South was his most pressing -- the most pressing, 7 he felt. Since then, I've spoken with him -- I hadn't 8 spoken with him in a few months; I did speak with him again, 9 and he -- about the possibility of looking at some grant 10 funds to go put in a sewer collection system. And, as the 11 Commissioner mentioned, there are two different fund sources 12 available, both through the same program that your Colonia 13 Planning Grant would be, and from the Texas Community 14 Development Program. They have two different funds -- fund 15 categories within there, the Colonia Fund and the Community 16 Development Fund, which can be used for water and sewer 17 improvements in rural areas, both funds which put a priority 18 on providing first-time water and sewer service, which is 19 what this would be considered. Septics aren't considered to 20 be public service. 21 The -- the way this would work is the 22 U.G.R.A., I believe in this particular case, would be the 23 owner and operator of anything that was built. The County 24 would be the applicant, because no one but counties and 25 cities can apply for these funds. Generally, water 105 1 districts, WCID's, those kinds of groups, have applied 2 through their county. The County sponsors the application 3 on their behalf. The district or authority or whomever is 4 going to own/operate the improvements would be responsible 5 for coming up with matching funds, if any, and would also be 6 responsible for the ownership and operation once the 7 improvements were built. 8 Let's see. Out of about 600 applications 9 that come in for this program each -- each cycle, 10 approximately 70 to 80 are counties, so counties are very 11 active in this program to help their rural districts. Kerr 12 County, I do not believe, has come in for the program 13 before. Kendall County came in last year for Comfort, the 14 WCID there, and was awarded a grant for a new sewer plant, 15 so it's -- that's an example. What I'm asking for your 16 consideration today is to allow us to go ahead and go 17 forward with the application process. Doesn't commit you to 18 any expenditures; there's not any cost to the County for the 19 application. What it would allow us to do is begin working 20 on setting up a public hearing and getting the U.G.R.A. 21 lined up as far as their engineer, starting the budgets, 22 those kind of things. They would incur any expenses related 23 to that. 24 We'll come back to you next -- in the next, I 25 guess, Court meeting, probably actually your -- yeah, I 106 1 think your July 24th Court meeting. Is that -- that's the 2 date? Yeah. To pass a resolution, assuming that everything 3 has fallen into place, to actually apply for the funds at 4 that point. Before that point, there would be no commitment 5 necessarily from the County. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the deadline 7 for applications? 8 MR. HARTZELL: August 24th. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: August 24th? 10 MR. HARTZELL: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we could 12 accomplish that by resolution on July 24th? 13 MR. HARTZELL: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. What I gave 15 the Court was a letter that I received by fax over the 16 weekend from U.G.R.A. I was at the U.G.R.A. Board meeting 17 last Wednesday when they discussed this issue, as well. And 18 I think the first paragraph is important. At the U.G.R.A. 19 Board of Directors 21 June meeting, authorized the General 20 Manager to go forward in working with Kerr County to develop 21 an application for the referenced grant to serve the 22 residents of Kerrville South, more specifically in an area 23 generally defined as situated between Ranchero Road, Camp 24 Meeting Creek, and Highway 16. And then it goes on to talk 25 about the other areas where U.G.R.A. could be beneficial. 107 1 And, looking over that area, some of this -- 2 I'm not sure whether all these streets are in Precinct 2, or 3 whether some of them may be in Precinct 1, Commissioner, but 4 I just did a drive-through of the area, and the potential is 5 really great. I have no idea how many homes are stacked on 6 top of each other in this area, but we're talking about the 7 possibility of serving homes on Ranchero, Green Meadow, 8 Ripplewood, Sweetwater, Wood Drive, Muck Drive, Shannon, 9 Loyal Valley, Frederick, Quail Valley, Lake View, Valley 10 View Contour, Verde -- perhaps Verde. Both Poco Vista, Loma 11 Vista, also Royal Oaks and the businesses on Highway 16. 12 Some of those, once the engineers take a look and see where 13 that stuff flows and how it flows, may be stricken from that 14 list, but just at first glance, it looks like there's a 15 whole lot that could be done in this regard if we were able 16 to attract these grants. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, I'd like 18 to add that this is the hot spot in the county. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is indeed, 20 Commissioner. I would welcome support of moving forward 21 with this. The U.G.R.A.'s on board. They're waiting to see 22 how we dispose of this request with respect to Grantworks' 23 willingness to move this process forward. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds great. And, I 25 mean, I'm encouraged, looking forward to it. I think 108 1 somewhere along the line, we need to make sure the City's on 2 board. I mean, when you're reading -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City is the other -- 5 the third part of this, to make it work. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not only the City. I 7 think that maybe even -- I've been doing a little research 8 on this issue, Commissioner. We may even have to go to the 9 K.I.S.D. Board, because if the records that I've uncovered 10 are correct, the County -- K.I.S.D. actually owns that line, 11 that transmission line that goes from Nimitz School over to 12 the trunk line. And, while the city is empowered to -- to 13 oversee it, at least the use of it, we may even have to seek 14 permission from K.I.S.D. as well. But, as Commissioner 15 Baldwin points out, this is one of the hot spots in Kerr 16 County that needs to be addressed. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me just bring up 18 something. If we have the -- I don't know who needs to be 19 involved and how far we have to go with the application 20 process, but if the City needs to be brought on board and 21 K.I.S.D., we need to get those communications going as soon 22 as we can. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, based on the 24 discussion that took place at the U.G.R.A. Board meeting 25 last Wednesday with their Board and their General Manager, I 109 1 would suggest that the Court -- if the Court wishes me to 2 join with Mr. Brown in these discussions, we can move that 3 forward and see where this takes us, as well. Along with 4 Eric doing his end of the thing. I would move that we 5 authorize Grantworks of Austin to begin the process of -- 6 grant application process for the County with respect to the 7 two grants that were identified by Mr. Hartzell in his 8 discussion today. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 11 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 12 authorize Grantworks of Austin to proceed with preparing the 13 necessary paperwork for Community Development Fund and 14 Colonia Construction Fund grant for the purpose of providing 15 sewer service in the Kerrville South area, and authorize 16 Commissioner Williams to work with the U.G.R.A., the City of 17 Kerrville, and the Kerrville Independent School District to 18 determine feasibility of this project. Any further comments 19 or questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 24 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you. I've enjoyed 25 working for you. 110 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for coming 2 down, Eric. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 18, consider and 4 discuss approving the proposed Kerr County Park Rules and 5 Regulations and set a public hearing on the same. 6 Commissioner Letz. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've discussed several 8 times, probably, over the past several years, rules and 9 regulations for the County Parks. And Flat Rock is 10 basically operational; I think the time is now that we need 11 to do this. What we did, rather than start from scratch, we 12 went to the City of Kerrville and got their parks -- Rules 13 and Regulations for their parks, adapted them pretty much 14 for County from the standpoint of Sheriff versus police and 15 things of that nature. And they're not -- I don't think 16 they're overly burdensome. They're basically based on 17 safety and -- in our area in the parks, and also give us 18 some, I guess, authority from the standpoint of enforcement 19 of the rules. 20 The biggest question I need to point out is 21 that these rules are based on City of Kerrville, and cities 22 have far broader authority than counties do. These have not 23 gone through the County Attorney's department. I think 24 that's the next step, but I thought we could go ahead and at 25 least set a public hearing and get the process going, rather 111 1 than -- you know, I don't think -- I think the substance 2 will be pretty much the way they are, so I'd recommend them, 3 and they can be applicable to all parks, I think. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, may 5 I bring up one item that just jumped off the page at me? 6 And we had talked about this a long time ago and -- several 7 years ago, I think, when Commissioner Oehler was still here. 8 It is, it shall be unlawful for any person to stand, walk, 9 run, jump, play jacks, flip on a Kerr County dam. What 10 about Ingram Dam? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Center Point Dam. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We can strike the 13 play jacks. We discussed that before, and -- and it's 14 referring to dam sliding, I believe. I forgot the term we 15 used last time. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, actually, 17 walking. Walk on the dam. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like I say, these are the 19 City's; we just adapted them. I have no problem with 20 deleting the "stand, walk" -- basically, the "stand, walk, 21 and sit" portion of that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 24 Are you finished? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I have one more. 112 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And down in Section 5, 3 Number 3, of -- isn't that covered in Section 3? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Section -- say that 5 again. Where are you? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Section 5, just right 7 down below where we were. We were standing and walking. 8 Section 5, Number 3. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it is covered 10 through the hours, but I think it's just -- reinforces the 11 overnight portion of it. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. That's all. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also, I think it's the 14 part about one of the sections, like driving across the 15 grass areas, which is one of the concerns I have, things of 16 that nature. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple 18 questions. In Paragraph 1, Section 1, General Authority, 19 you talk about said parks shall be under the supervision of 20 the Maintenance Manager and the Kerr County Sheriff. 21 Sheriff, I understand. I guess we're going to be in -- this 22 would -- this would presuppose that we're adding park 23 maintenance and -- and other regulatory authority to the 24 Maintenance Manager, which prompts me to ask a couple other 25 questions, so I'll just lay them all out here. 113 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Section 2 talks about 3 special events to be held in the County parks shall be 4 obtained -- shall obtain approval from Kerr County 5 Commissioners Court at least 30 days prior to the event. 6 And then several other places in the -- in the proposed 7 regulations, we talk about the necessity to come before 8 Commissioners Court for either variances or excuses or 9 whatever -- extensions or whatevers. My question is, are 10 these reservations and other special considerations -- who's 11 going to make them and handle them, or are we going to have 12 every single one of those here before Commissioners Court? 13 Are we going to delegate, for example, Facilities Use and 14 Maintenance Department? Because we're talking about parks 15 as being a -- a facility. How do you see that being 16 handled? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see most of these, such 18 as special events, coming before the Court. I mean, I don't 19 see that a lot of this is -- is delegated. And I think it's 20 one of the -- and the reason, for me, is one of the problems 21 I have is that on this square right here, I think things 22 should come to the Court more than they do, and I think it's 23 too much, maybe, delegated to some of the other areas. I 24 think it's our responsibility to approve events, and I'm 25 talking about, like, chili cook-offs, things like that, in 114 1 my mind, for use of these parks. And I think it should come 2 to the Court. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Section 4, Item 4 Number 1, I believe that's just a typographical -- we've got 5 "or to swim through openings of said dam" twice, and I don't 6 know whether you're talking about swimming through on the 7 downstream side and coming back on the upstream side or 8 what. But -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in Section 5, 11 Number 4, I don't understand the necessity for Number 4 in 12 conjunction with 1, 2 and 3. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's got an -- in 14 the previous -- in 3 there, Bill, what it says is that all 15 three of those are contingent upon the fact that he knew -- 16 that the person knows that the activity was forbidden, 17 received notice of it. I think that's the reason it was 18 probably worded that way. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe we can -- 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I -- I want to 22 think a little bit more about all of these approvals and 23 exceptions and so forth coming before the Court. We may 24 just be bogging ourselves down with park matters. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm open for discussion 115 1 on that. I mean, as you noted also -- and I thought more 2 that the Maintenance Department or Maintenance Manager be 3 responsible. I mean, we've talked a lot about, you know, 4 how we're going to do it, and I think the time is now, at 5 budget, that we need to decide, you know, whether there's 6 going to be -- how we're going to handle that. The reason 7 the Sheriff's in there is that, from a -- a closing the 8 park, if we're going to have hours, we're going to have 9 closing hours, I don't think it's appropriate for us to ask 10 the Maintenance Department to go through the park and tell 11 people to leave. I think that it can be a little bit 12 touchy. I think it's almost better to have the Sheriff 13 probably go through on a patrol and say, "We're closing the 14 park," and that's kind of the -- and also the enforcement of 15 these rules, the Sheriff would be the one to do it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Posting the hours of 17 operation and so forth and so on, so everybody would be 18 aware. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. Larry? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One technical question 21 I have, and maybe it's right there the -- the way it is, but 22 in Section 9, under Penalty, should that specify the class 23 of misdemeanor, or is that laid out in the law? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's where we got into 25 a little bit of problem on the enforcement, is we don't have 116 1 a whole lot of authority when it comes to a park. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. Just to say 3 it's a misdemeanor without saying what kind -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's what -- I 5 hope the County Attorney will look through that and see 6 exactly what we can do, because it was unclear. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Only comment I would have, 8 other than good work and good start, is I think 11 o'clock 9 is too late to close. That's well after dark, and at any 10 time, I think 10 o'clock is about the latest that you would 11 want to have the park open. That's just -- it gets dark 12 around here at the very latest about 9:30, so that gives 13 somebody an hour and a half in the park after dark. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any problem 15 with it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's your old age 17 showing up there, Fred. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, it's my young age, going 19 back to mine. After 10 o'clock, we get in trouble. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On that issue, one 22 other thought comes to mind, in terms of fishermen. Are we 23 saying that fishermen that might want to get up and launch a 24 boat and go fishing before the sun comes up, before the 25 park's open, can't do that without they have prior written 117 1 consent to do that? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The boat ramp -- I think 3 we need to provide for that, because the boat ramp is made 4 so it's not in the closed area of the park. I think we 5 probably need to add a provision there. Good point, though, 6 that this does -- these regulations are -- under the hours 7 section, anyway, does not apply to the boat ramp. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If there is a boat 10 ramp. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's one of 13 the questions you might want to -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's a good 15 point. Thank you. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 17 comments? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me go through and 19 come back, run it through the County Attorney and make a few 20 of the suggested changes, and then put it back on the 21 agenda, and we'll probably consider putting it back on the 22 agenda in early July. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, great. The next item 24 is Item Number 19, consider and discuss Kerr County Parks 25 maintenance and procedures. 118 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This one really goes 2 hand-in-hand with the other item as to, in the interim 3 period, what we want to do. The gates have been closed on 4 the park most of the time, and -- this being Flat Rock, 5 probably because they're waiting for some vegetation to get, 6 you know, growing while we reseeded the area. And if we 7 don't have any rules, do you want to have somebody opening 8 and closing the gate? We need to decide how we're going to 9 handle it. I've received a number of calls; people would 10 like them to be open more than they are, and I tell them the 11 reason is we're trying to let the grass grow before it gets 12 too much use on it. They understood that. I think we're at 13 a point that the grass is now -- it's green. So -- it's 14 green out there, so people probably could go in there, but 15 we need to decide. I think if we're going to -- you know, 16 who and how you're going to open and close the gates and 17 what hours, or do we just want to leave them closed until -- 18 leave them open or closed until we get the full rules and 19 regulations in place? I think that takes up Items 1 and 2 20 of the list that I had. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would like to see us maybe 22 keep them closed until we have our rules in place. One 23 thing we need to work out is who does what, when. Are we 24 completely through with all the work out there? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only construction left to 119 1 do is the placement of picnic tables and the restroom. So, 2 the dirt work is done. You know, there will be no more dirt 3 work. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You haven't ordered 5 the tables, have you? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. I'm not going to 7 forget you, Bill. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I got -- I 9 don't think there's any timeline for how you spend your 10 money, but I've got a timeline on how I spend mine. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I don't have any 12 problem with leaving them closed. I think we're talking 13 about relatively -- about another month or so. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's some liability 15 issues there, too. Without rules in place, we sort of -- 16 you know, I'm not that scared about liabilities all the 17 time, but it just -- it just seems to me we ought to get 18 something in place before we turn folks loose. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I agree, but the 20 other side of it is, that park's been there for -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. That's what I 22 mean. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- forever, and it's been 24 used forever. People are using it now. I mean, there's no 25 "Do Not Enter" signs up. It's just that there -- the gates 120 1 for driving in it are not there. But, Glenn -- I see Glenn 2 here. Are the gates open or closed right now? Are they 3 closed? 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: On the new park? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: They're closed. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: On the old park? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Open. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Open, okay. I don't 10 have -- I recommend we leave it like that. That way, I 11 mean -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause you can't drive 14 across the -- you had a question? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, on the -- on the new 16 park, the only thing that needs to be done, as you said, is 17 the mowing. And, the -- and the grass, we've been trying to 18 get going, but there are some barricades, you know, for 19 the -- the -- what do you call them? The contractor put up 20 to catch dirt so it doesn't -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Erosion? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: They have to be removed, which 23 is about over half a mile of -- of that barrier that needs 24 to come out before that can be mowed on the -- next to the 25 back of the river. And I would prefer not to -- to open it 121 1 until all of that has been accomplished, because with weeds 2 so high right now, you won't see them, and people will trip 3 and it will be quite a wreck. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we just leave 5 it, then? Leave the new side closed, as it is, and leave 6 the other side of the gates open, where people can go in 7 there, which is the way it is. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any comments? Any questions? 9 Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other thing is -- and 11 I probably get more calls on this than anything else -- a 12 dumpster down there. We don't have a dumpster in that park, 13 and, you know, I think we contribute to having litter when 14 we don't have a place to put trash. We also don't have any 15 money budgeted for a dumpster. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: In budget items. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if we're going to 18 have people in that area or over by the boat ramp, 19 especially by the boat ramp, probably the best spot, we may 20 want to look at putting in a dumpster there. And if the 21 Court wants, I can try to figure out how much it will cost 22 and where the money would come from to do it for the balance 23 of this year, and then include it in next year's budget. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sounds like a plan to me. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay? 122 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Number 4 is, what 3 department should be responsible for park maintenance? And, 4 in my mind, it's the Maintenance Department. And at 5 least -- at least for everything -- and the only thing, you 6 know, possibly that would go beyond that would be the mowing 7 of it. But, the -- but just kind of the general upkeep, to 8 me, if it's in -- if it's in with the maintenance, it's 9 really not -- you know, there may be a staffing issue with 10 it, but it's not any different than keeping up with any 11 other of the properties that we own, so I think it should be 12 the Maintenance Department on that. And, if that's going to 13 be the -- the desire of the Court, I think we need to let 14 that department know and come up with -- so they can be put 15 into the budget process. We sort of don't have funds this 16 year; hopefully, we can just make do with the Maintenance 17 Department with clean-up and things of that nature through 18 the balance of this year. 19 And, on the mowing, I think -- I've talked 20 with Leonard about this. They don't mind mowing 21 occasionally. The problem is, they have their schedules, 22 and right now when mowing needs to be done, it needs to be 23 mowed right now, and they're out mowing their normal jobs. 24 And, you know, it's kind of -- I think it's going to have 25 to -- we're going to have to try to work through a procedure 123 1 where probably the Maintenance Department does some of the 2 mowing and Road and Bridge does some of the mowing. I 3 think -- I guess it's -- does the tractor and the trailer -- 4 or the mowers that y'all have at the Ag Barn, is it all in 5 good working order to be -- I thought I knew that already. 6 (Mr. Holekamp shook his head.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see a head being shaken 8 no. And that's something else we probably have to really 9 address through the budget phase, and just hopefully -- we 10 don't have any funds to contract it. Hopefully Road and 11 Bridge can catch up when they can. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, currently, Road and 13 Bridge has been doing a real good job with helping us out 14 when the tractors and mowers are in the yard. They have 15 sent someone down there to shred those parts on the old Flat 16 Rock. And I would -- I did submit some numbers on the park 17 for this coming year, just to -- so you would have a 18 comparison as to anybody else doing it. And, I would 19 appreciate, until the budget year is adopted or where we 20 have some equipment, if -- if we could just have Road and 21 Bridge to -- to run a tractor and a mower there in the yard; 22 that we would furnish the man to operate it if we could just 23 use it. It would help immensely and wouldn't have to 24 duplicate all that equipment. So, it would really -- it 25 would work real nice if we could do that. 124 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. That 2 sounds -- that, to me, is the best way. We certainly don't 3 have any funds through the balance of this year, and two 4 departments working together is great. I'll mention that to 5 Leonard, as well. And, I guess the final item. Things are 6 basically finished; we're at a point, I think, we probably 7 owe it to L.C.R.A. to acknowledge the grant, is to have a -- 8 a grand opening out there, or set a ribbon-cutting, 9 however -- you know, something to announce that the park is 10 completed and just, you know, acknowledge L.C.R.A.'s money, 11 and also the -- the -- really, the County employees that 12 have put a lot into it, the Road and Bridge Department and 13 Maintenance Department. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Including former Court 15 members. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Agreed. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I clearly think that's 18 something we should do. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And just set a date or 20 pick a time when we want to do it; I don't have one like -- 21 like that right now. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: July 24th. 23 (Discussion off the record.) 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you want me just to 25 put one together and set one up and try to maybe get with 125 1 L.C.R.A., see who they want to attend, and schedule it? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: You have the best feel for 3 when it's really going to be in a posture that we will 4 formally open. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Considering once we formally 7 open it, we should be in a position for people to go in. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Okay, all right. 9 I'll take it and schedule that. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I clearly think that's 11 something we need to do. It's something we're going to be 12 proud of. Okay. Anything else? 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nope. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anybody have any questions or 15 comments? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have just a 17 follow-up on it, but I'll talk to Jonathan about it. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Next item is Item 19 Number 20, consider and discuss appointing the Board of 20 Directors of the Kerr County Juvenile Facility Corporation, 21 per Section 303.035(a) of the Local Government Code. The 22 Local Government Code requires that the board of directors 23 of any public service facility be appointed by the 24 Commissioners Court for a three-year term. The current 25 directors are Judge Ables, Judge Prohl, and myself. Judge 126 1 Ables and Judge Prohl, their terms expire at the end of this 2 month, and my term actually expires, since I assumed the -- 3 I assumed the term of Judge Denson. So, the request is that 4 the current directors be reappointed as the Board of 5 Directors of the Kerr County Juvenile Detention Facility 6 Corporation. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that Judge Steve 11 Ables, Judge Karl Prohl, and myself be appointed to the 12 Board of Directors of the Kerr County Juvenile Facility 13 Corporation. Any further comments or questions? If not, 14 all in favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 19 21, consider and discuss appointment of a committee of local 20 citizens to review information on permitted and unauthorized 21 closed landfill sites in Kerr County. You have a letter in 22 your packets from the Alamo Area Council of Governments 23 requesting that we appoint a committee to review the 24 information and data collected for the regional Closed 25 Municipal Solid Waste Landfill Inventory. I've suggested 127 1 that we each appoint a member to this committee. Does 2 anyone have any questions or comments regarding the request 3 from AACOG or the committee, itself? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When do you want names 5 submitted? I mean, I just -- it seems that AACOG's done -- 6 I mean, it's their -- I mean, I don't see why we need a 7 citizen's group to do this. I mean, I don't see why -- I 8 just don't see the point. Unless I'm missing something in 9 Notzon's letter. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Request from AACOG. I mean, 11 I'm not sure I can give any more information than that. I 12 guarantee you, most of the ones from AACOG will be -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reason, to me, is 14 to be -- to make certain that you identify all of those, and 15 the County may not be able to do that. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think how the 17 process would work, too, is I think the control may be to 18 have citizens appointed. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I'll say that 20 it -- I agree with y'all; I see that it would just be a 21 careful way of doing business. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I have my 24 appointment ready. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But how are citizens 128 1 going to know where to look for landfills? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't think that's 3 a -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They've already been 5 identified. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, on the map. So 7 why do we need to have -- okay. I don't see the point. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I know if -- and 9 your -- what's behind your point is that if government's 10 going to come in and tell you what to do on your private 11 property, I want my person there, is the point. They're 12 going to do it anyway, so I want someone I know in the mix, 13 at the table. I'm prepared to lay my name on the table -- 14 my appointment. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: First of all, do we have a 16 motion to create a Kerr County committee to work with the 17 Alamo Area Council of Governments in inventorying the closed 18 municipal solid waste landfills in Kerr County? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved, Judge. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 22 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 23 create a 5-member Kerr County committee to cooperate with 24 the Alamo Area Council of Governments in inventorying the 25 closed municipal landfill -- I have a hard time with that -- 129 1 closed municipal solid waste landfills in Kerr County. And 2 I presume your motion includes allowing each Commissioner 3 and the County Judge to appoint one representative? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does include that. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further discussion? If 6 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Griffin indicated by raised hand that they were in 8 favor of the motion.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed? 10 (Commissioner Letz indicated by raised hand that he was against the motion.) 11 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. At this 13 time, are there any Commissioners who would like to announce 14 their appointees to this committee? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mr. Don Townsend of 18 Hunt, Texas, has agreed to serve. I have his name and 19 address here for approval somewhere. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would propose a 21 local engineer -- registered engineer, Mr. Bruce Motheral, 22 to serve. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: You need to get me his phone 24 number and address. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 130 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. My 3 appointment is David Brewton, B-r-e-w-t-o-n, 896-4683. And 4 he lives at 244 Pin Oak Way in Kerrville. He's a former 5 County Commissioner. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I do not have one at this 7 time. I will provide a name later. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appoint me, Jon. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't live in my 10 precinct. I was going to appoint Bruce, but he doesn't live 11 in my precinct either. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: County Judge is going to 13 reserve his appointment at this time. All right. The next 14 item, proceeding numerically -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we vote? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We voted. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is the O.S.S.F. Rules and 19 Regulations. I believe we wanted to defer that until 20 approximately 2:30? Or do we want to try to take it up now, 21 in 13 minutes? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd rather do it 23 around 2 o'clock. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, 2 o'clock is a public 25 hearing. 131 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Around 2 o'clock. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 2:30, 2:15, 1:45. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's the pleasure of the 5 Court? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Whatever works. Do we 7 have -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After the public hearing? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. We'll announce 10 we're going to take up Item Number 22, which is consider and 11 discuss approving the proposed O.S.S.F. Rules and 12 Regulations and setting a public hearing on same, 13 immediately after the public hearing and agenda item 14 regarding the floodplain. Public hearing is scheduled to 15 begin at 2 o'clock, so it will be between 2:15 and 2:30 that 16 we take up the item regarding the O.S.S.F. rules. 17 The next scheduled -- the next numerical item 18 is consider and discuss setting schedule for budget 19 workshops for Fiscal Year 2000-2001. You have in your 20 packets a proposed schedule. I have a memo from the County 21 Attorney, David Motley, indicating that he's unable to be 22 here Wednesday at 2 o'clock. Glenn Holekamp has agreed to 23 change with County Attorney, so on Wednesday, July 12th, at 24 2 o'clock, the proposed schedule will be to take up 25 Maintenance, Animal Control, and Environmental Health at 132 1 that time, and to take up the County Attorney at 9:30 on 2 Friday, July 14th. We've packed all the workshops into one 3 busy week so we can get in and get out and get on with the 4 business of crafting a budget for next year. Does anyone 5 have any comments or questions? Sheriff? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing, I'm actually 7 scheduled to be out of town that entire week. If -- if 8 possible, we could do the Sheriff's Office, Jail, and 9 Courthouse Security all on that Tuesday, instead of 10 Wednesday, and I can delay my trip. If not, I'll just have 11 to make other arrangements. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: On Tuesday, the -- the 11th? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Instead of 14 Wednesday. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We could do it at 4 o'clock 16 if people want to tarry that long. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah -- yes. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. So we'll move the 20 Sheriff's Department and related budgets to 4 o'clock on 21 Tuesday, July 11th. Eddie, I saw your hand up, sir? 22 MR. HOLLAND: We have a conflict. We have a 23 meeting all day on Friday, so if I can move into Rusty's 24 spot at 3 o'clock on Wednesday, that would be great for the 25 Extension Office. 133 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, you've got it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move the Extension to 3 what time? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: 3 o'clock. 5 MR. HOLLAND: Wednesday at 3 o'clock in the 6 Sheriff's Department slot, So that will eliminate the 7 2 o'clock on Friday. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which will probably be a good 9 catch-up slot. Any other questions or comments regarding 10 the proposed schedule? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just a question of 12 procedure on this. Is your salary stuff and that going to 13 be discussed during these workshops, since this is -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- the first time? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: That stuff will not be ready 17 by this time. I don't think we'll get the final proposal 18 from Nash and Company until right about this time. So, 19 we're -- we have to massage that with the different 20 departments, so we won't be ready for that. We'll have to 21 schedule that at a later time. That will not be heard. Any 22 other questions or comments? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You'll get us a 24 cleaned-up 3-ring schedule? Do you have that? 25 MS. SOVIL: Next week. 134 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. If not, I'd entertain a 2 motion to adopt the budget workshop schedule as amended. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 6 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we adopt the budget 7 workshop schedule as amended. Any further comments or 8 questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. The 13 next item -- do we want to take another item or do we want 14 to break? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last one, isn't it? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Last one except for 18 the hearing stuff and closed session. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can do it. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Next item is Item 21 Number 24, consider and discuss furnishings for the 22 courthouse renovation. Commissioner Baldwin. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The reason I put this 24 on here, we had -- there's been lots of discussion all over 25 town about these chairs, benches, whatever they are, and I 135 1 simply -- and I sat around, watched and listened, and -- and 2 it seemed like everybody was just going to keep talking and 3 not do anything, so I put this on here so that we could get 4 it out on the table and visit about it and try to -- try to 5 come to some kind of conclusion of what we need to do. I 6 think the engineer, court representative, et cetera -- did 7 y'all not have a meeting last week of some sort and -- 8 MR. LONGNECKER: Oh, yes, we've had several 9 meetings. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thursday or Friday 11 morning -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Keith, come up to the podium, 13 please. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to try to get to 15 some kind of resolution on this? So it's all y'all's now. 16 MR. LONGNECKER: We have been meeting on the 17 seating ever since the -- it was decided that the seating 18 was unsatisfactory. This has been going on for the last 19 four weeks. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I interrupt you 21 right there -- just right there. Who decided that it was 22 unsatisfactory? I'm -- I'm kind of out of the loop here. 23 MR. LONGNECKER: Well, the -- anyone who came 24 up and looked at them, and -- and said they were 25 unsatisfactory. You've been up there. Judge Henneke's been 136 1 there. The District Judges who will be running the courts, 2 and -- 3 MS. UECKER: I think I was the first one that 4 mentioned it and called the attention to everybody else. 5 MR. LONGNECKER: And staff from all of the 6 different -- these offices. Now, we are in the process and 7 have made redesigns of those benches. There is a mock-up 8 there now of what the new one will be like. Anyone who 9 wants to can go up there right now and sit down on that seat 10 and see the difference between what was actually drawn on 11 the plans and put into the courtroom, and then they can go 12 over and try the other. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't you explain real 14 quickly what the problem was. 15 MR. LONGNECKER: Well, the problem seems to 16 be that the -- the architect had designed -- that's 17 Mr. Walker here, had designed a bench that would be 18 inexpensive, and most people find that bench uncomfortable. 19 And then we have been meeting to find out and to make a 20 mock-up of it -- of the seat to see what the cost is going 21 to be to upgrade those benches to a better bench that would 22 be more comfortable. I believe it was Judge Ables that said 23 we can't expect people who come up here for jury selection 24 to be able to sit two or three hours on the benches as 25 they're designed. And, with that, we have decided to see 137 1 what it would cost to change those benches to make them more 2 in-line with church pews or the -- the pews in County Court 3 at Law, for instance, and that's what we've done. And there 4 is a mock-up up there, and Mike has given the contractor 5 drawings to get another price. We've already gotten some 6 prices back, and now we're waiting on certain decisions. 7 Mike, can you fill in with me a little bit more here? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Before you do that, let me 9 just say that, as originally designed, the backs on the 10 benches were too low. When I sat in them, the top of the 11 bench hit me right about in the small of the back. And to 12 ask a juror who is going to be there for as many as two or 13 three days, if they were called on a jury panel for a 14 capital murder case, to expect them to sit in the courtroom 15 for two or three days was not going to work. They were 16 extremely uncomfortable, from the point of view of providing 17 adequate support for someone's back, who is going to be 18 there for a significant length of time. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I concur in that. I 20 sat on them, as well, the same time as the Judge did, and 21 it's not conducive to being there a long period of time. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we should have 23 those kind of benches for the attorneys. 24 (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I like it. 138 1 MR. LONGNECKER: Well, I would concur with 2 everything that's being said here, but we're currently 3 trying to put together this and put it in with the change 4 order to upgrade all those benches. We have other options. 5 We can go to individual chairs like this. We can add wood 6 and trim them out to look more like what we have in County 7 Court at Law. And then you have -- we have several other 8 options that really aren't worth going towards to explore, 9 but I think there's two or three that we should be looking 10 at before we turn in a final price on what it's going to 11 cost, because it's going to cost more money. We had -- the 12 $70 was, I think, what Mike told me is the price for what 13 we've got designed into the plans. Individual chairs would 14 be $139 a piece, and going to church pews, you may even get 15 up to $150 a piece per seat in that cost of these benches. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's being proposed is 17 substantially less than either of those; more in the 18 neighborhood of an additional 30 -- additional $30 to $40 19 per seat. 20 MR. LONGNECKER: Mike's been working on this 21 diligently here for the last several weeks, and I'll let him 22 go ahead with it. 23 MR. WALKER: Thank you, Keith, Commissioners, 24 Judge. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can tell something's 139 1 up; he's wearing a coat and tie. 2 MR. WALKER: An Aggie tie, I might add. 3 Again, back to -- there were two -- three basic 4 considerations there. One was the Commission. The other 5 one was ergonomics, and the last one was aesthetics. And, 6 in our charge to try to bring this thing in for budget, we 7 provided bench seating that was somewhat less than 8 ergonomically desirable over a certain period of time. 9 There were those who also complained, mostly from the 10 Judges, that it was -- you know, didn't look good enough, 11 didn't have enough wood on it, enough trim. So, everybody 12 that went up there kind of had a little bit different 13 opinion, but generally the concept was that we needed to do 14 something better. 15 And the process, really, for the last -- 16 since the 25th of May, we have been trying to -- and 17 actually, within a week we had a mock-up up there of what 18 most folks considered was comfortable enough. Then we got 19 to niff-nalling about, well, how good do they need to look? 20 So, we've given -- we gave the contractor three options. 21 One was just to paint the standard so they weren't black, 22 which we have a price on. We have a price to pad by making 23 modifications. I should point out here that part of the 24 problem was that half of the seats were already on the 25 job -- more than half, and the other half were partially 140 1 fabricated. So, again, to try to make the most of what we 2 had already fabricated, we did some sort of shuffling of 3 putting seats on backs and so forth and added more padding, 4 and trying to come up with a solution that way. We have a 5 -- a concept to add some oak trim to it. And those were 6 sort of the three options. We felt like the basic work was 7 to get them more comfortable. In the process of doing that, 8 we made them somewhat more visually pleasing, but without 9 adding all the oak trim to it, which adds another, about, 10 $8,000. So, the painting we could do or not do, but we felt 11 like that was sort of a third priority, not essential. And 12 we've -- we've got -- I'd say we're probably 98 percent 13 close to having an exact figure. We still -- there's still 14 a couple of things we have questions on from the contractor. 15 I think my basic recommendation to you right 16 now, in the interests of getting finished and being 17 comfortable, would be to repad the seats. The basic 18 concept, which is to repad, swap the seats around, get them 19 more comfortable, and we have a price on that. And then, if 20 you want to consider the other two options, we could 21 either -- we could look at the painting option, which must 22 be done now if it's going to be done, which I don't highly 23 recommend. And then the third option, which is to add the 24 oak trim, could be done -- it was designed in such a way 25 that it can be done after the contract over here is 141 1 complete. We don't have to wait till it's complete; we just 2 need to wait until we accept those seats and say, okay, 3 they're all right. Then we can go ahead and add that to 4 them. And then you will not be paying the contractor's 5 mark-up and everything else on that. You just simply have 6 them retro-fitted. 7 Obviously, anything that you reconfigure that 8 is a product of the contractor, he is going to renege on 9 when it comes time to warrant -- to do warranty work on it, 10 so if we do anything that affects his workmanship, then 11 obviously his one-year warranty's got kinks in it -- on it. 12 In the process of doing this -- not to complicate things too 13 much, maybe I should stop there and see if you have any more 14 questions. I do have an additional issue about that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next? 16 MR. WALKER: In the process of doing this, 17 the Judges went up and looked at things more carefully. 18 In -- at this time two years ago, we came to Commissioners 19 Court, because I could see -- architects have a problem -- 20 and I've told this Court or the previous Court this, too. 21 We think that everybody can visualize what we can visualize. 22 And we started sensing in '98, when we were preparing the 23 drawings, that maybe folks were not totally understanding 24 what they were going to get. We proposed to do a mock-up 25 of -- for the maximum cost figure of $10,000, and the Court 142 1 elected not to do that at the time. I think that some of 2 these -- a lot of these problems would have been resolved 3 had we done that. But, that's hindsight. Meanwhile, the -- 4 the Judges, in the person of Judge Ables, Judge Prohl, 5 and -- help me here. 6 MS. UECKER: Sherrill. 7 MR. WALKER: Judge Sherrill. Went up and 8 looked at it. I think some of the other folks -- a lot of 9 folks have gone up and looked at it; I don't know if you all 10 have or not. But, they determined that there was some -- 11 and Judge Henneke, of course, went up and looked at it and 12 determined that there was some sight-line problems. In 13 order to create the amount of seating that the courts were 14 trying to get in there, which ranged to about 150 in the big 15 courtroom, we pushed the front rail up a little bit closer 16 than the attorneys and judges would like to have seen it, to 17 where perhaps the jury was too close to the defense 18 attorneys or the district attorneys. So, last Thursday -- 19 this is a plan which you might wish to look at -- they asked 20 if we could eliminate the front row of seating, push the 21 rail back, and -- and give a little bit more breathing room. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eliminates how much 23 seats? 24 MR. WALKER: Well, depends on which courtroom 25 you're talking about. The one courtroom is -- 143 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we were 2 talking about the big courtroom. 3 MR. WALKER: They want it in both courtrooms. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. 5 MR. WALKER: You're looking at Courtroom 2 6 there, and here's Courtroom 1. Similar type of deal. You 7 lose anywhere from -- I believe its 10 to 14 seats in each 8 one. With that, we were able to, we hope, get the distances 9 in there that they needed. We had them go up and look at 10 it, and we measured, and so that's sort of an additional 11 side I wanted to throw in there, that -- that the judges 12 wanted to do to it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, less seating we have 14 to redo, right? 15 MR. WALKER: Hmm? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Less seating. 17 MR. WALKER: Well, what we will actually do 18 is eliminate -- if this is accepted, we will actually cut 19 the cost of what we were going to do, because we're actually 20 eliminating some of the seats. But not -- not by a whole 21 lot. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many seats are we 23 eliminating? 24 MR. WALKER: Okay. There's a little scratch 25 through there on -- if you look at Courtroom Number 1, these 144 1 are bench seats, so you can actually push people in a little 2 bit tighter. So, we had a change in there of 140 to 159, 3 and we'll be cutting it to 128 to 144. Courtroom Number 2, 4 it was 110 to 128, and will go to 97 to 114. For your 5 reference, the district courtroom upstairs right now seats 6 about 150. Right, Linda? 7 MS. UECKER: Yes. About 158, I think, 8 something like that. 9 MR. WALKER: Now, again, these are all -- I 10 guess you'd call it legal seating. I mean, you can still 11 add folding chairs to the outside aisles and things like 12 that. So, I mean, you can get more people in there than 13 this. Let me explain one other thing. One of the other 14 reasons for fixed seating was because we had some floor 15 loading situations. Again, we had a structure up there, 16 that post tension collector structure, that was sort of 17 designed for certain limits. If we have fixed seating, we 18 can lower the allowable floor load -- loading on that floor, 19 and therefore do structurally, by Code, what we needed to 20 do. In other words, if you have -- if you did not have 21 fixed seating, we could not meet the floor load requirements 22 up there. So, that's -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't act on this 24 right now; we need a change order. This is just 25 informational and directional, maybe? To me, let's take the 145 1 rows out, make it so that the -- I mean, the -- 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it -- the 3 courtroom -- let's make the courtroom portion where the 4 trial's taking place correct. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: It was -- it was unworkable 6 before, because in both courtrooms you had the -- the 7 attorneys' table closest to the jury box so close that the 8 jurors on that end could read what was on the attorney's 9 table. Not only that, the way it was designed, the podium, 10 which was in the fixed location, blocked the lower half or 11 lower third of the jury box from seeing the witness. So, if 12 an attorney was questioning the witness, as was designed, 13 from the podium, half to a third of the jury could not see 14 the witness, which means they could not gauge the witness' 15 reaction to the question. It looked good on paper, but it 16 didn't work. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But this will fix 18 that? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: This will fix it. What this 20 will allow us to do is to pull the attorneys' tables back 21 and actually push them kind of below the -- the jury box, 22 and then you can put the podium in, so it will be also equal 23 or below the jury box, and there will be no obstructions 24 between the juries and the witnesses or the Court or the 25 Judge. 146 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like that's the 2 thing to do. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: It will involve some more 5 money, but there's no -- it's well-known there's no purpose 6 in spending money for something that won't work. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 9 comments? Rusty? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One other thing, if I 11 can mention, and I know -- I think Mr. Longnecker is aware 12 of it. Just for suggestion, since you're talking about the 13 courtroom, the holding cell out of the big courtroom, at the 14 back of the big courtroom, has a door out the back of it 15 that goes directly down the stairway. That door has an 16 opening underneath it of about an inch; it's one of the old 17 metal doors. And the problem that I have with it -- and 18 we've talked, and I think they're working on a solution for 19 it -- is if you come up the stairway from behind the 20 emergency stairway, you could shove anything you want to 21 underneath that door, knives or whatever, to give directly 22 to a person that's inside that holding cell, and nobody in 23 the courtroom would know it. Now, that is an emergency 24 escape type deal, you know, for the stairway, but the fire 25 marshal has already said there's another door there, so that 147 1 one's not necessary. It's done by cinder-block, and I've 2 suggested that they check into just taking that door frame 3 out, cinder-blocking that shut and be done with it. It 4 won't affect anything except the security, 'cause the way 5 it's designed right now, I wouldn't want to put an inmate in 6 that holding cell. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's something that the -- 8 you have to look at and bring back, but certainly is a 9 concern. 10 MR. LONGNECKER: We've given the -- the 11 contractor two options. One, to weld that door shut, fasten 12 it, remove or cover up the glass in it and put a seal under 13 the door. Or to take the -- the door completely out, frame 14 and all. It looks as if it had been added there at one 15 time, once before, and could be removed and then -- then the 16 opening simply blocked up with concrete block. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My preference is to go 18 with block, less -- 19 MR. LONGNECKER: That's mine, too, but we 20 can't seem to get a price out of him at this point, what 21 that's going to cost; we're still waiting on that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MR. WALKER: And those were all existing 24 conditions. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 148 1 comments? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I'm hungry. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have anything of 4 Mr. Walker or Mr. Longnecker before we -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank y'all for 6 coming. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you for the update. 8 MR. WALKER: We're more than happy to take 9 you through and show you things. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are you going to 11 do about the benches? That's why we're here. What are you 12 going to do? 13 MR. WALKER: It's a long answer, but 14 essentially we're moving the larger seat to the back and 15 we're creating a wider seat. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we're going to pay 17 for that regardless of what you're going to charge us, huh? 18 How much is it going to cost us? 19 MR. WALKER: I have got to get a figure after 20 this removal. The bench modification, without me going back 21 and asking them more questions about it, but the initial 22 cost they gave us was about $12,000. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thousand dollars? 24 MR. WALKER: $12,000. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: American money? 149 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For both courtrooms? 2 MR. WALKER: And the reason being is that, 3 because of the wider dimensions they wanted, that uses twice 4 as much material to do that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does it include more 6 padding for the seat, actual seat? 7 MR. WALKER: It's exactly what you were 8 sitting on up there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golly. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was it comfortable? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No comment. That's a 12 lot of money. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aside from the fact 14 that it looks like a bust, I guess that's what we have to 15 do. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm a little concerned 18 about us making the change without a change order. 19 MR. LONGNECKER: It will be on a change 20 order. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: No change has been made yet. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if it's going to cost 23 $12,000 -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That comes to us as a 25 change order. 150 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we approve it. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Y'all haven't decided 3 that's what you want to do yet. 4 MR. WALKER: We need to finalize it, bring it 5 back to you. 6 MR. LONGNECKER: I might mention again, while 7 you're here, that we do have a Change Order Number 3 in the 8 process. We've been waiting for it for about eight months, 9 for the contractor to complete it, and there are items that 10 was added on there. I have asked the contractor and the 11 architect to give us a change order that would completely 12 take care of all of those change items within the Annex 13 itself, and at this point we still have not been able to get 14 the contractor to give us all of those prices. This is just 15 one of them that's being added onto it. Mike has written 16 now 15, 16 directives to the contractor to get these prices, 17 and we're just not getting them. He's got -- what, probably 18 95 percent of them? But there's still those few others. 19 This latest one -- 20 MR. WALKER: Well, this one right here 21 they've not seen yet. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we -- I mean, 23 why don't we handle the 95 percent that we've got? I mean, 24 if we have those 95 percent, why don't we do that as one 25 change order and be done with it, and then do the balance? 151 1 MR. LONGNECKER: That we can do. We can, but 2 you will get another change order, then, for the seats and 3 the moving the rail and -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather get -- at 5 least get what we can knocked out, I mean, rather than -- 6 'cause otherwise, if we come up with another change order 7 down the line, then we've got to delay it again. So, 8 therefore, let's at least clear that -- 9 MR. LONGNECKER: I would like to get to the 10 point where we can -- where I can tell the Commission 11 exactly how much money it's going to take to finish this 12 entire project. That's why I've been -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand. 14 MR. LONGNECKER: -- trying to get everything 15 on these change orders and get it together. But if you'd 16 rather do it that way, it's -- we will be glad do it that 17 way. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't have a preference 19 either way. 20 MR. WALKER: We can have this on the next 21 agenda. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Thank y'all. 23 Bye. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We stand adjourned 25 until 1:45. Please note that we will reconvene and we will 152 1 go immediately into Executive Session. 2 (Recess taken from 12:15 p.m. to 1:45 p.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is 1:45 on Monday, 5 June 26th, Year 2000, and we will now reconvene this regular 6 special session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 7 Court will now move into Executive Session, pursuant to 8 Title 5, Chapter 551, and Title 5, Chapter 552 of the 9 Government Code, to discuss pending, possible, or threatened 10 litigation. 11 (The open session was closed at 1:46 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 12 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is 2 o'clock on Monday, 15 June 26, year 2000. We will reconvene this public session 16 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. At this time, the 17 Court will go into recess and we will convene a public 18 hearing on the proposed Kerr County Flood Damage Prevention 19 Order. 20 PUBLIC HEARING 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just as a matter of 22 refreshment, the Court approved the proposed Kerr County 23 Flood Damage Prevention Order back in May and set this date 24 as the public hearing on the proposed Kerr County Flood 25 Damage Prevention Order. This public hearing is a 153 1 requirement before we may adopt the actual Kerr County Flood 2 Damage Prevention Order. At this time, is there anyone 3 among the public who would like to address the Court with 4 regard to the proposed Kerr County Flood Damage Prevention 5 Order? 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is not something new. 8 The County has had a flood damage prevention order in effect 9 since at least 1994, I believe. Furthermore, it is a 10 requirement by State law, passed in the last session of the 11 Legislature, that each county must have in effect a flood 12 damage prevention order not later than January 1st of the 13 year 2001. Do we have anyone who has any public comments 14 upon the proposed Kerr County Flood Damage Prevention Order? 15 We'll try once again. Is there anyone who has any comments 16 on the proposed Kerr County Flood Damage Prevention Order? 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: This proposed order has been 19 on file with the County Clerk's office for approximately 30 20 days at this time. Seeing none, we will close the public 21 hearing on the proposed Kerr County Flood Damage Prevention 22 Order, and we will next take up agenda Item Number 2.26, 23 which is consider and discuss adopting the Kerr County Flood 24 Damage Prevention Order. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we -- 154 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions or comments? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. This is -- 3 question is more to some definitions and form and all that 4 sort of thing. Let me make sure I've got them here. Oh, I 5 know. The first question I have is, is this order -- the 6 format in this order has the Kerr County Judge to assign -- 7 or assigns -- appoints a Floodplain Administrator. So then 8 we take care of -- just to make sure I understand it 9 correctly, in our contract, then, we delegate that to 10 U.G.R.A.? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: We delegate it specifically 12 to Mr. Wiedenfeld under the supervision of U.G.R.A., I 13 believe. Charlie, is that how it works? 14 MR. WIEDENFELD: Say again, sir? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are you designated by the 16 Court as the Floodplain Administrator, or are you designated 17 by the U.G.R.A.? 18 MR. WIEDENFELD: I'm designated by the Court, 19 y'all. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. In the 21 contract, whatever. So, I'm -- I'm just saying that there 22 is a way that we get from you having to do all of this to -- 23 to -- to Mr. Wiedenfeld. On Page 12, Section D, Paragraph 24 3, it says, "Any person or persons aggrieved by the decision 25 of the Appeal Board...", and I don't find that appeal board 155 1 defined. So, is there a -- can you tell me what that is? 2 Is that the Commissioners Court, as mentioned above? Just 3 the -- both paragraphs just above it, it talks about the 4 Commissioners Court being involved in the appeal, but then 5 it says -- in 3, it refers to an appeal board. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's what 7 we were talking about this morning. This Court. Am I 8 right? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would have to be the 10 Commissioners Court. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we may want to let 12 the -- have the words "Commissioners Court" rather than 13 "Appeal Board." That's all I have. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 15 questions or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin, you 17 were going to make a motion? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I will. I move that 19 we adopt the Kerr County Flood Damage Prevention Order. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: That is as amended by 22 Commissioner Griffin's -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. Moved by 25 Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, 156 1 that we adopt the Kerr County Flood Management Prevention 2 Order, as amended. Any further questions or comments? If 3 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. The next 8 item for consideration is Item Number 22, which is consider 9 and discuss approving the proposed O.S.S.F. Rules and 10 Regulations and setting a public hearing on same. Just as a 11 matter of background, we had the O.S.S.F. Rules revisions 12 presented to us at our last meeting. At that time, there 13 was a workshop and a significant amount of discussion on 14 principally a change regarding the current 25-acre exemption 15 to the floodplain application and licensing rules. We've 16 been presented with two versions of the On-Site Sewage 17 Facility Order. Version Number 1 -- number 1 is the version 18 which has -- which deletes the existing 25-acre exemption. 19 Version II-R retains the existing 25-acre exemption. Both 20 versions contain the provision whereby the buyer of the 21 piece of property may assume responsibility for conforming 22 the septic system on that property to the rules, provided 23 they do so within 60 days of the date of the transfer of the 24 property. Do we have any questions or comments from the 25 Court? 157 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge -- I'm sorry. 2 Go ahead, Bill. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll follow you. Go 4 ahead. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Over the last week and 6 a half, I spent a lot of time going through this, and in the 7 interest of -- of trying to tighten up the document as it 8 was presented to us, I've done a very extensive rewrite of 9 the draft. And I don't know how best to approach this, 10 Judge, whether we should -- I'd be glad to distribute this 11 to the other Commissioners so we get a chance -- and 12 yourself, of course, and U.G.R.A., so we can -- they can get 13 a chance to look at it. We can perhaps come back to this at 14 a later date, or I'll be glad to go through it now. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which part have you 16 rewritten? Because Chapters 1 through 9 are basically 17 standard. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, chapters -- 19 there's minor word changes there, mostly editorial. And 20 I'll go -- I'll be -- as I say, be glad to go through those, 21 because I -- I don't think that the law is so restrictive 22 that we can't make the changes that I've recommended. If 23 so, then obviously we wouldn't accept those parts of my -- 24 of my rewrite. But there are -- in Chapter 10, in 25 particular, and -- and in the Whereas's, I don't think the 158 1 Whereas's, as I read them all, are required, except for the 2 references to the laws and -- and T.N.R.C.C. regulations, 3 et cetera, and I have changed none of those, but there are 4 some of the Whereas's that I have deleted entirely, and some 5 that I have reworded, some that I have strengthened, I would 6 think. Same way in -- in Section 10. But I've made some 7 substantial changes that I think the U.G.R.A. folks in 8 particular may want to go through in some detail, and I'd be 9 glad to discuss those with them singularly or all at once or 10 in another Court session, whatever. 11 But, let me distribute these to you, and you 12 might want to just take a quick look. And, again, whichever 13 is the fastest way of doing it and the most efficient, I 14 don't have any problem. I'm going to give you two copies. 15 One is Version II-R, as proposed by U.G.R.A., showing what 16 changes were made. In other words, I -- I set the word 17 processor to show what I was striking out and adding to and 18 so on. There is a second version that is clean. It's got 19 all of the revision marks out. It's as I would propose to 20 submit a new draft for consideration. I don't -- and, by 21 the way, I don't have any problem if we -- if we look at 22 both drafts for purposes of the public hearing. That may be 23 possible, too, if we can do that procedurally. So, let 24 me -- let me -- that's one copy. Let me just hand these to 25 you. 159 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, while Larry's 2 handing -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, by the way, I 4 would have gotten this out much sooner, but we only got this 5 last Wednesday. And the version as -- and I understand that 6 this morning -- or yesterday -- Friday afternoon, we got 7 some additional changes that weren't incorporated in either 8 Version II or II-R, so there may be some further editorial 9 changes that need to be made. Did you see that? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Those aren't additional 11 changes; those are just an explanation on the Version II-R. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're different. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But it changes -- the 14 words change to what it's referring to. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment was going to 16 be that, considering -- I mean, I didn't get this -- I've 17 never even looked at this until now, 'cause I was gone 18 Thursday and Friday, and the first one I looked at, the 19 changes -- on mine, there are changes, and I'm not going to 20 be prepared to vote on anything today until I can sort of 21 sort through the language. Not counting what Larry just 22 handed out, which is more information, but really to go 23 through the newest version from U.G.R.A. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that, 25 and I'd like to have a chance to read what Commissioner 160 1 Griffin's put together. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But from a -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For comparison. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: From a public hearing 5 standpoint, I mean, if anyone wants to make any comments, 6 certainly, we can do that, but beyond taking more 7 information, I want some time to read the new documents that 8 I got, one from U.G.R.A. and one from Commissioner Griffin. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, and perhaps we 10 can go ahead and set the public hearing, even, and have all 11 of this -- all of these documents available to the public. 12 I don't know whether that's procedurally possible or not. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: A public hearing is for the 14 purpose of a public meeting, but to be able to comment on 15 something that we have approved and that is to be adopted. 16 We can still amend it, but -- so it's only fair to the 17 public for us to have -- them to have the ability to review 18 what we've proposed and have approved. So, at this stage, 19 it does not seem to me that it's -- we're in a procedural 20 situation to move forward on the setting -- on setting a 21 public hearing. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like I said, on the one 23 from U.G.R.A., the first one I looked at under Section 10, 24 Item 1, the verbiage is slightly different. Some language 25 was deleted from that, it appears. 161 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's several of 2 them that changed, and perhaps for the better; I'm not 3 criticizing that. Just the fact that we didn't get it till 4 today. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On this one that 6 you're referring to, Commissioner Letz, since this was 7 originated by Mr. Wiedenfeld, I think it might not be a bad 8 idea if he would enlighten us as to what the contents are, 9 the nature of the changes, since we just got the document. 10 But I really want to have time to study what Commissioner 11 Griffin has put before us. Hello, Charlie. 12 MR. WIEDENFELD: Would you like me to address 13 the Court, as Mr. -- Judge? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 15 MR. WIEDENFELD: What you received from me on 16 Friday was -- again, was just a matter of order of 17 explanation of what had gone into Version I of the proposed 18 order. And -- and, again, like I said, that was my 19 evaluation and support, and that was those kinds of things 20 that went into the Version I. And there is no changes, 21 per se, in that. There was just explanation provided. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is Version -- so these 23 don't apply to Version II? 24 MR. WIEDENFELD: They're essentially, you 25 know, the same topics. The same issues are involved. 162 1 Again, when it comes to property transfers, the 25-acre 2 provisions, they do speak to those issues on -- in both 3 versions, so yeah, if you're reading one, you'll understand 4 the other. But, as your designated representative, and not 5 personally, I feel that the 25-acre provision is -- is not 6 recommended by me, as your designated representative. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't recommend 8 keeping it? Or which -- 9 MR. WIEDENFELD: Allowing there to be septics 10 in this county that have not been inspected by the 11 designated representative of the County. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Might be worth 13 mentioning on that point that the version that I worked 14 from, II-R, which has the 25-acre exemption, which I am in 15 favor of retaining, I put a -- what I think is a rather 16 strong note at the bottom of it, of that statement of 17 exemptions of 25 acres or larger. There is a note that this 18 amendment does not exempt any person from obeying the 19 applicable laws and regulations of the State of Texas and 20 the T.N.R.C.C. referenced in Section 8 above. This 21 amendment relates only to the application requirements of 22 Kerr County. 23 MR. WIEDENFELD: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I think that's 25 important, because that's what we're after. We're not 163 1 exempting anybody from putting in a proper septic system. 2 What we're doing is exempting them from an application 3 process. 4 MR. WIEDENFELD: Right. And you'll see that 5 I refrain from the word "exemption." That is a very 6 intense -- that's improper. Also, I'd like to caution the 7 Court in that we -- the current County order has a 8 certificate that needs to be completed and issued in order 9 to have this, i.e., authorization to discharge waste on a 10 piece of property. And this is something that, without the 11 County having inspected it, y'all are assuming a very large 12 responsibility as to what condition that that septic 13 system -- it may or may not be licensed or meet State 14 standards. It could be just -- just about anything could be 15 out there, and y'all are essentially blessing it, and it 16 could be very far from meeting State standards. And 17 that's -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's my point, 19 though. 20 MR. WIEDENFELD: If anything, the point being 21 that if you're going to choose to allow some properties to 22 put in the septic system they choose, I think the wording 23 that you see in the Revision Number 2 is exactly -- from 24 what the State has, you're just -- there is no requirement 25 to make an application for a septic system. It becomes an 164 1 unknown septic. It's untrackable, it's unknown. But the 2 County has not blessed something that they have yet to see, 3 or -- or approve. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're saying, then, 5 if there's no requirement for an application, then that 6 means there's no requirement for a license, and that means 7 there's no requirement for inspection; is that correct? 8 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But there is still a 10 requirement to obey the State law. 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I understand 13 that, and I don't disagree with where you're coming from. 14 The problem I see in it is, there's no -- there is no 15 ability to enforce it. There's no ability to find out that 16 that's incorrect or standards have been met. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me tell you how my 18 logic train went on that one and why I'm in favor of 19 retaining it. And, I don't know what -- 25 acres sounds 20 about right to me, but if we have -- if somebody's got a 21 large ranch -- I mean large landholding; 500 acres, let's 22 say, and he goes out and -- wants to go out in the middle of 23 it and put a cesspool, we're never going to know about it 24 anyway. If he wants to break the law, he could probably 25 hide it -- he or she could probably hide such a thing. I'm 165 1 not sure that we should spend our precious resource in 2 trying to concentrate on 25 acres and larger when we've got 3 a lot of problems with lot sizes much smaller than that, 4 when we've got -- we've got 1-acre tracts that have old, 5 failing systems in it. I'd rather see our enforcement 6 resources go towards that and try to stop what's really 7 polluting the river or getting into the aquifer, rather than 8 spending our precious resource on these larger tracts. 9 And so if, at some point, we can document 10 that the large tracts are creating a great problem and 11 creating a hazard, then I'd be redoing the -- and 12 including -- you know, taking the 25-acre no application 13 requirement out of it, and go back to the most current 14 system. I just don't think we have the resources to police 15 -- we've barely got resources now. We've got U.G.R.A. 16 spread awful thin, and I just don't think that's the thing 17 to do on these larger tracts. That's my thought process. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 19 Essentially, I think that that point of view has a great 20 deal of merit, and I'm wondering now where we came up with 21 that. Did we just pull that number out of a hat? Because 22 what's the difference in 25 acres if I have a property -- 23 some property right next door that's 24 and a half acres and 24 I have to follow the rules, and you have a piece of property 25 that's 25 acres and you don't have to? I don't understand 166 1 that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Follow -- you have to 3 follow State law. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But there is no 5 ability to police it or to find out whether the law has been 6 broken or not followed. That's my point. That's my only 7 point. And I understand where Commissioner Griffin's coming 8 from in terms of spending our resources where the problems 9 are. And, granted, the problems are not at 25, 50, 100, or 10 250 acres; they're at 1 acre or less, or whatever. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's part of 12 my -- I go back to -- and one of the things that annoyed me 13 with a lot of the -- I guess the on-site septic, some of the 14 verbiage that's been included is that the presumption is 15 that septic systems are bad, and that's not true. Septic 16 systems are fine if they're properly installed, and I think 17 the majority of them in the county are properly installed 18 and work great. I think that there are a couple of areas in 19 the county that are very -- that happen to be, whether it's 20 bad luck or whatever, of high-density, before we had the 21 minimum lot size we have, and bad soils, and we have a 22 problem. And I don't know why we don't try to fix those 23 problems rather than pass stringent laws for the rest of the 24 county. And, you know, I don't think we have a problem 25 county-wide; I think we have a problem in two or three areas 167 1 of the county, maybe four areas. I know probably one in my 2 area, one in Bill's area that I'm familiar with. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two or three in my 4 area. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even so, we're talking 6 about less than half a dozen really problem areas where this 7 is a problem that I'm aware of in the county, so I don't see 8 why we need to pass a lot of regulations for everyone who's 9 abiding by the law right now and not causing a problem, and 10 that's my basic, you know, problem with the -- what's been 11 proposed. 12 MR. WIEDENFELD: Let me add one thing along 13 these lines. You know, caliche has been an issue in Kerr 14 County and has been excluded as being a suitable soil 15 throughout Kerr County since 1988. These new orders that 16 you'll see here is allowing the -- the use of caliche as a 17 suitable soil if it meets the requirements of the State of 18 Texas. And this was kind of a compromise then on the 19 property -- the larger properties where, you know, I would 20 think that in order to be -- to meet minimum State 21 standards, they could put in something, then, in possibly 22 caliche-type soil. 23 Again, the industry, I guess from -- the 24 septic industry is -- is -- does not feel that there is 25 enough supporting evidence that says caliche is a suitable 168 1 soil, but the State says it is, and I -- I am their 2 administrator in y'all's order and/or the State's minimum 3 standards. And, at this time, that's kind of where I was 4 coming from when we made -- proposed this order that y'all 5 see here, or have it offered for you. We'd like to see 6 the -- the 25 acres go away, and -- but you would have the 7 ability then to utilize caliche for the installation of -- 8 maybe, of the septic systems. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's another separate 10 issue. If caliche is a viable material to use, it should be 11 allowed to be used and acreage shouldn't enter into that. 12 MR. WIEDENFELD: But that's not how the 13 current County order is. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I disagree with that part 15 of the current County order, as well. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 17 comments? In light of the posture we find ourselves in, I 18 would suggest that we pull this down, put it on the agenda 19 for the next meeting to reconsider at that time. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I really -- it 21 would be helpful to me if we could come up with one draft to 22 put forward before the public hearing. I mean, and I 23 don't -- you know, and I'm -- we have two from U.G.R.A., 24 which, to me -- I mean, we have enough to work from for this 25 Court to come up with one version that we can go with and 169 1 then put that up for public hearing, so that the public 2 doesn't have to keep on coming back in every couple of weeks 3 for a -- to talk about it again. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think they like it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They like to come visit 6 us. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They like it here. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me also say to the 9 members of the Court that in the -- in the rewrite that I 10 did, I have put some numbers in in certain cases where I'm 11 not -- that I wasn't -- I'm not hung up on personally or 12 anything of that sort, but these are straw men. You'll see 13 a couple of numbers that I threw in to try to make the 14 system responsive and fair and make sense to me. But if -- 15 if I've said something about seven years and it ought to be 16 five or ten, we can negotiate that. I put a -- but I think 17 there should be language in those kinds of sections where 18 I've put a restriction on number of years or whatever it is. 19 So -- but please read it in that vein, and if you got a 20 better idea for a better number, you know, let me know. You 21 know, we'll change the draft. And I've got all this on 22 disk; we can do it very quickly. I can do a comparison very 23 quickly with the U.G.R.A. Version II-R or Version II, for 24 that matter, but -- if somebody wants me to. I'm for 25 Version II-R, as amended. But -- so we can get to something 170 1 pretty quick, I think, that we, Commissioners Court, can -- 2 can agree to as a draft. And I realize that a lot of what 3 I've written here may have to be negotiated with other 4 members of the Court. I'm not trying to dictate that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have one more 6 question. This really is to Charlie Wiedenfeld, and it's 7 just a curiosity; I have not been able to figure out what 8 this means. Throughout, it says "D.R. Comments." Who is 9 "D.R."? 10 MR. WIEDENFELD: Designated Representative. 11 Sorry. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've been trying to 13 figure that out since the last meeting, who D.R. was. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: On that point -- and, 15 again, this may be subject to some kind of negotiations. 16 And on that point, when I went through the II-R version, the 17 last version that I have -- that I had from U.G.R.A., I 18 found references to both "Designated Representative" and the 19 "Authorized Agent," and I struck all of the "Authorized 20 Agent" language and made it all "Designated Representative," 21 because that's who our contract is with, quote, "the 22 Designated Representative." Right? 23 MR. WIEDENFELD: I think it should probably 24 be the other way around. Y'all are the authorized agent for 25 septic rules, and the rules -- those are your rules, and 171 1 everything in there probably should represent authorized 2 agent. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So our contract -- 4 does our contract read "authorized agent"? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe "authorized 6 agent." 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're the authorized 8 agent. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're the authorized 10 agent. 11 MS. BAILEY: I think Charlie's right. I 12 think that the rules should probably say the authorized 13 agent can do this, will do that, because as far as the rules 14 go, you're really the ones that are making it. He's just 15 acting as a representative on your behalf. So, the rules 16 really should reflect the authorized agent. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there a -- let me 18 ask this question, because I wonder -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: You mean, then, if someone 20 wants to have their septic system inspected for transfer of 21 property, they have to make application to Commissioners 22 Court? 23 MS. BAILEY: No. No, what I'm saying -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what you're saying, 25 that's what the rules provide for. 172 1 MS. BAILEY: Well, what I'm saying is that 2 the rules ought to say Kerr County is the authorized agent 3 for the State of Texas, and here's our rules. Then another 4 provision that says, and these rules are administered by the 5 designated representative. Because it's the -- the rules 6 are actually from Kerr County, not from the designated 7 representative. But, I mean, it ends up to be the same 8 thing. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: There needs to be a 10 distinction in the rules about who does what and what 11 authority, because if we put everything in there for 12 authorized representative, that means that this Court has to 13 sign off on every license. If someone wants to apply for a 14 license, they apply to this Court. 15 MS. BAILEY: Not if -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's how it works. 17 MS. BAILEY: Not if it's the way I just said, 18 which is the rules -- the authorized agent does 19 such-and-such, and then there's a provision that says all 20 actions taken will be done through the designated 21 representative. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's, in essence, 23 what it says now, but I found references in there that said 24 that the authorized agent would be doing things that, 25 really, we would expect U.G.R.A. to do, so I struck that 173 1 language. And I will go back and review all of that. 2 MS. BAILEY: Just need to make sure it's 3 consistent. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, okay. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. We have three 6 individuals who have signed up to make public comment at 7 this time, if they still choose to do so. We'll hear from 8 Linda Coffee. 9 MR. WOLTERS: Is it too late to sign up? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You spoke too soon, 12 Judge. Yes, it is, Lane. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Linda Coffee. Do you have 14 anything for us, Ms. Coffee? 15 MS. COFFEE: I really don't, if y'all haven't 16 gotten to the point where you know which rules you're 17 looking at. But I do want to say I appreciate Mr. Griffin 18 looking at them and rewriting them, because I do like to 19 think that the Court participates in the creating of these 20 rules, rather than just adopting them from the designated 21 representative. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Gordon Morgan? 23 MR. MORGAN: I have nothing. I agree totally 24 with her, and do appreciate his efforts, and -- and 25 hopefully, we do have one. Y'all are wearing me out. 174 1 MS. COFFEE: Yeah. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Bruce Oehler. 3 MR. OEHLER: Well, I really kind of agree 4 with what's been said. I'm glad that you are taking a look 5 at them, and Larry has come up with another plan, maybe, to 6 look at further. I would say one more time -- I've said it 7 the last 10 years -- adopt the State rules. If you want to 8 monkey with acreage, monkey with acreage, but State rules 9 say 10 acres, not 25. We went way far in excess of the 10 State requirements when you put the 25-acre rule in. And 11 that was one reason for doing that, was to get above and 12 beyond the 10 acres. But 10 acres is fine with me, 13 somewhere between there and 25. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Wolters, do you have 15 something that you wanted to add? 16 MR. WOLTERS: Yes. I wanted to -- I've been to 17 several of these meetings, and I wanted to challenge 18 Bruce -- not to arm wrestle; I think we did that one time -- 19 and the Court to look at this exemption issue in light of -- 20 I just like to couch it in this light. My challenge is that 21 I don't believe that there's any other county in the 254 22 counties in Texas that has a D.R. and an authorized agent 23 that has an exemption clause. The state 10-acre minimum was 24 set up for counties that did not have an authorized agent or 25 a designated representative. There were, in fact, counties 175 1 that opted for the State to run programs for them. There 2 are very few of those. But there are none that I know 3 about, counties -- especially not counties that would be 4 considered critical counties in the area of environmental 5 concern, like Kerr County -- that have any type of 6 exemption. 7 I'll give you just a little history about the 8 exemption deal. I'm gray-headed now, and this goes back to 9 1980. This exemption business goes back to 1980, when 10 Bernie Bruns, the Manager of the Upper Guadalupe River 11 Authority, and Judge Julius Neunhoffer -- you remember the 12 longest continuously-elected Republican Judge in the state 13 of Texas for 32 years -- were talking about the first set of 14 Kerr County Rules and Regulations. It was Julius 15 Neunhoffer -- Judge Neunhoffer's opinion that an exemption 16 should be put in for large ranches and farms that -- or the 17 -- Bill Williams had mentioned the -- I'm not sure -- had 18 mentioned just that the reason they should not have to 19 endure the permitting requirements was because probably they 20 did have 500 acres or more, and these were not on the edge 21 of a small tract, but these were all large tracts. They 22 were what, in fact, in those days were considered farms and 23 ranches, which are all of them, I believe, a lot bigger than 24 25 acres. 25 Going on at the same time, in 1981, when the 176 1 County finally adopted the first set of rules and 2 regulations, there really weren't any of the high-tech rules 3 that have been passed down by T.N.R.C.C. since involving 4 soils and classifications and so forth and so on. There was 5 basically a one-size-fits-all septic system. It was, in 6 fact, a 550-gallon tank and 300 square foot of drainfield, 7 which is a drainfield trench 3 feet wide and 100 feet long. 8 It didn't matter who was putting it in, whether permitted or 9 not. That was off-the-shelf, what a septic system was in 10 Kerr County from 1981 back into whenever anybody can 11 remember. So, the exemption didn't matter. The same kind 12 of system was being put in in all types of terrain and 13 situations. Next to the river, on top of the mountain, it 14 didn't really matter. 15 Now that the rules have changed from the State, 16 and call for alternative systems and systems that 17 increasingly look at ground water pollution rather than just 18 puddling on top of the ground, there's a little bit 19 different way of looking at things, and the exemption thing 20 is antiquated, I believe, because the -- the verbiage and 21 the time in which it was created is gone. We've superseded 22 that into times now when our community has undergone the 23 biggest growth spurt that it's had since I've been here, 24 since anybody's been here. And I think now is the time to 25 be looking at protecting the river and being good stewards 177 1 of our groundwater and tributary more than any -- any time 2 before. The fact of the matter is that that -- us sitting 3 around arguing about an exemption till we are -- Bruce, I'll 4 buy you lunch for a week if you can find another county in 5 the 254 counties in Texas that has a D.R. and an authorized 6 agent and an exemption on acreage. Is that a deal? 7 MR. OEHLER: I ain't making a deal like that. 8 I don't really care whether or not the counties have it or 9 don't. 10 MR. WOLTERS: They -- my point is, we're -- 11 the only reason we're the only one is it's an antiquated -- 12 that's the reason that we shouldn't even be considering this 13 any more. And Charlie Wiedenfeld is exactly right. The 14 biggest problem in our community is sort of like -- if I was 15 an IRS representative, came to Kerr County and I said, you 16 know, if you got 25 acres, what we've decided down at the 17 IRS is that, you know, we really don't need you to send in a 18 report or a form -- you know, file. Really, if you'll send 19 us the money that you feel like you ought to send us, that's 20 fine. But, we -- you know, we hope that you'll do the right 21 thing. And everybody -- "See ya!" That's sort of like what 22 you're doing. You're giving everybody a carte blanche 23 reason to -- really, my experience has been -- to lie, 24 because the soils are not suitable for conventional systems 25 on most of these 25-acre tracts. They may be if they're 178 1 down by the river and you have suitable soil, but if you're 2 on top of the caprock or out in the western part of Kerr 3 County where there is no soil, you're not going to be able 4 to put in a standard-type system anyway, and they are -- 5 they're dynamiting these systems in there, taking the form 6 and filling it out and saying yes, it's 200 feet from the 7 property line, when it's not. They're saying yes, it's 8 200 -- it's 150 feet from a water well when it's not. And, 9 they're basically saying that it's a suitable system that 10 meets T.N.R.C.C. standards when it doesn't. And that's just 11 my experience. Thank you for your time. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Judge Stacy? 13 MR. STACY: Lane is wrong. Gentlemen, with 14 your 25 acres, you're forgetting about one thing, and that's 15 your camps, 'cause if you take away that, you're going to 16 create a real problem with those camps. For 40 years when I 17 was in the camping business, we had three cells and a leach 18 line. Now they've come back to us and they tell us we need 19 one of these 1-inch aerobic systems that don't work. So, 20 what Lane is telling you does not work, the aerobic system; 21 the three cells does work. And if you take away that 25 22 acres, that exemption that was put in there for a very good 23 reason, because of the camps. And I've been in the camping 24 business; I know what the problem is. And those people are 25 responsible; they're not irresponsible. I think some of the 179 1 remarks about them being irresponsible is not correct. 2 Charlie Schreiner put in a good septic system up on the top 3 of -- of the Kerr County up there where it's hard to put in 4 a septic line and leach line. So, gentlemen, I think the 5 rules were well-thought-out, well-worked, and they ain't 6 broke, so don't try to fix them. 7 MS. COWDEN: May I say something? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, Ms. Cowden. 9 MS. COWDEN: I'm Kitty Cowden; I'm a realtor. 10 I deal quite a bit with Mr. Wolters and existing aerobic 11 septic systems in the county, and until there's some proof 12 that these aerobic systems are truly better for the 13 environment, I would say that we need to stay with as many 14 of the conventionals as we can. There are too many 15 neighborhoods now that have required aerobic systems, and we 16 smell septic odor. 17 MS. CALCOTE: That's true. 18 MS. COWDEN: And now, two years after they've 19 been put in, they're a maintenance nightmare. Not only are 20 they not working properly, but they need a complete new 21 motor, they need -- "Oh, that's one of the very first ones 22 put in. I'm sorry, you're going to have to put in another 23 one." So, I just think we need a little more time with the 24 aerobic systems before we start to say, "Oh, you have 25 caliche so you have to put one in." 180 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes? 2 MS. CALCOTE: I'm Hazel Calcote and I too am 3 a realtor, and I have some neighbors that were forced to put 4 in aerobic systems. Their electric bill runs $20 to $22 a 5 month more. And two of them, where the little automatic 6 sprinklers come on and sprinkle, it has killed trees and 7 grasses. Now, that's environmental damage, in my book. I 8 don't know how y'all interpret it. But, anyway, like Bill 9 said, if it ain't broke, let's don't fix it. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. All right, thank you 11 all for coming. As you can tell, the Court is not at this 12 time prepared to take any action on this issue. We will 13 bring it back up at the appropriate time. Rest assured that 14 there will have to be a public hearing before anything is 15 actually adopted. The public hearing would have to be set 16 at a duly called Commissioners Court meeting, as well as 17 published in the paper, so there will be plenty of 18 opportunity for you all to have a chance to review what is 19 proposed and to comment upon that prior to any action or 20 adoption. So, without any other discussion, we'll be 21 completed on that agenda item, and at this time the Court 22 will reconvene Executive Session to discuss pending 23 litigation with the Kerr County Attorney. 24 (The open session was closed at 2:40 p.m., and an Executive Session was held, the 25 transcript of which is contained in a separate document.) 181 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's return to open 2 session. Do we have a motion to authorize the County 3 Attorney to file a general denial on behalf of the County, 4 that the -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 8 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the County 9 Attorney be authorized to file a general denial on behalf of 10 the County in the litigation filed by the Texas Association 11 of Manufactured Housing. Any further discussion? If not, 12 all in favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We will be 17 in recess until 4 o'clock, when we will convene at the Hill 18 Country Youth Exhibition Center for purpose of the 19 presentation of the Master Plan, and we will reconvene 20 formally at 4 o'clock before the presentation. Okay. 21 (Recess taken from 2:58 p.m. to 4:00 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 182 1 On Monday, June 26, 2000, the Kerr County Commissioners 2 Court Special Session was reconvened at 4 p.m. at the Hill 3 Country Youth Exhibition Center, 5001 San Antonio Highway, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good afternoon, everybody. 8 It's 4 o'clock on Monday, June 26th, Year 2000, and we will 9 reconvene this regular Special Session of the Kerr County 10 Commissioners Court. I want to thank everyone for coming 11 out to the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center today. The 12 agenda topic that we're here for is to consider and discuss 13 a presentation by Quorum Architects of the Master Plan for 14 the use and development of -- long-term use and development 15 of the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center. With that, I'm 16 going to turn it over to Commissioner Williams, who, along 17 with Commissioner Letz, have been the co-chairs of the 18 committee that the Court created last fall, I think, to 19 begin the process. Bill, do you or Jonathan want to take 20 over? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a long way 22 around on these steps. I think, before we get started, I 23 want to say thank you to the Commissioners Court, and 24 introduce my colleagues. Commissioner 4, Precinct 4, Larry 25 Griffin. Commissioner of Precinct 1, Buster Baldwin. And 183 1 Co-Chair of the Hill Country Long-Term Planning Committee, 2 my colleague, Jonathan Letz. What I'd like to do is 3 introduce the committee to you, because these folks have 4 worked long and hard, put in a lot of hours, and have great 5 input to get us to this point. And if they're here today, 6 I'd ask them please to stand, and hold your applause till 7 everybody -- everybody has been introduced. 8 The members of the committee are Sudie 9 Burditt, Kerrville Convention/Visitors' Bureau; Ernie 10 Kaiser, Hill Country Junior Livestock Show -- District Show; 11 Rusty Henderson, Ken Kensing, Bernie Bruns, Donald Reeh, 12 Ronnie Gebauer, Sally Thompson, and Mindy Wendele, 13 representing the City of Kerrville. Thank you. 14 (Applause.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appreciate everything 16 you've done. Also, I think it's important to say a big 17 thank you to the Hal and Charlie Peterson Foundation for 18 joining with Commissioners Court in helping to fund this 19 study. Without their help and assistance, we probably would 20 still be further down the line in terms of getting a Master 21 Plan put together, so we do appreciate their participation 22 and we publicly acknowledge their goodwill in this matter. 23 Before we get started and I introduce -- 24 might I ask those of you who are in the rear to come a 25 little bit forward, just relocate, 'cause I think we're 184 1 going to turn the lights down. You'll get a chance to see 2 the screen a little better. So, if you'll join us up here 3 toward the front of the room, I think we'll be -- all of us 4 will be better served. That goes for you, too, Bruce. Come 5 on up here. Thank you very much. The committee members met 6 on several occasions and took input from each and every 7 member with regard to the pluses and the minuses of our 8 facility as we know it today, and the things that would 9 benefit us and make it a better facility to serve the 10 agricultural interests or interests of the community at 11 large, and just about everything you can think of. We took 12 input for a long time. We got to that point, then, where we 13 believed that we really needed somebody to help us direct 14 and channel those thoughts and come up with a cohesive plan, 15 and so we interviewed -- put out some Requests for 16 Proposals. We interviewed two or three different consulting 17 firms, and the decision was made to retain Quorum Architects 18 of Fort Worth, Texas, to help us put together this Master 19 Plan. 20 So, without any further ado, I'm going to 21 introduce the two gentlemen who are representing Quorum 22 today. The principal, Bill Blankenship, of Quorum 23 Architects, and Mike Dooley, who helped put together the 24 feasibility and the impact study, which is of equal 25 importance to everybody here today. So, Mike, why don't you 185 1 come -- Bill, come on up, you and Mike, and take it from 2 here. We'll turn out the lights in the auditorium when 3 you're ready for that to happen, and we'll -- I'm going ask 4 you to please hold your questions until the end. I know 5 you're going to have a lot of questions in terms of design, 6 utilization, phasing and so forth and so on, if it's 7 determined to do this. And I would also hasten to tell you 8 that there's been no decision made yet to do this. This is 9 the long-range planning. How to do has not been discussed, 10 or when to do, or if to do. But this does get us down the 11 road in terms of a plan, and that's what we're here today to 12 do, unveil the plan, and if you hold your questions till the 13 end, we'll be happy to answer them. Here you go, Mike. 14 MR. BLANKENSHIP: That working? Is this 15 working? 16 AUDIENCE: No. 17 MR. HOLLAND: It's -- speak into it. 18 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Speak into it. Can y'all 19 hear me? 20 AUDIENCE: No. Speak into it. 21 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Okay. Well, my name's Bill 22 Blankenship. I'm with Quorum Architects. 23 AUDIENCE: Closer. 24 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Closer. 25 AUDIENCE: That's very good. 186 1 MR. BLANKENSHIP: My name's Bill Blankenship. 2 I'm with Quorum Architects, Fort Worth, Texas, and we wanted 3 to thank the Commissioners for actually inviting us to 4 participate in this worthwhile project, and also to thank, 5 as Mr. Williams was saying, all the people who contributed 6 and all the time that they spent giving us input to help 7 come up with the Master Plan. What I'm going to do is 8 we'll -- we'll touch on -- a little bit up front on the 9 requirements and the Master Plan development, and then I'm 10 going to get Mike up here to talk about the study for the -- 11 turn on one light for me so I can see. Yeah, that's good 12 enough. 13 Some of the specific questions that we were 14 asked to come in with -- some of the specific questions that 15 we were asked to come in with were addressed by a scope of 16 work that was put out to produce a market analysis, to see 17 what renovation needed to be done on the facility, and also 18 if any expansion needed to be done. And, the scope of that 19 work included some things that I guess you had gone through 20 a pretty good analysis prior to us getting involved. And 21 the market analysis was to determine the potential of the 22 existing facility for expansion, and also for renovation and 23 to accomplish the potential for that. And, in Phase II we 24 were supposed to look at any kind of renovation that we 25 thought could be done at the facility, and in Phase III we 187 1 were supposed to look at any expansion that we thought 2 should be done. 3 What we run into with the initial Phase I on 4 the market analysis is that pretty well determines what the 5 facility is going to eventually become, because it 6 determines what's going on in the area around you and what 7 the market is going to bear. I have known Mike Dooley for a 8 good while, and know that he is very capable of doing the 9 market analysis for this, so I asked him to come in and do 10 that for us. And, I'll introduce Mike right now. He's with 11 Dooley Management, and he'll go through the market analysis 12 with you. 13 MR. DOOLEY: Yeah, go ahead. Turn -- give me 14 some lights here. I -- I can't see with the lights on, much 15 less the lights off. I appreciate the opportunity to come 16 and visit with you this afternoon. My name is Mike Dooley, 17 and I have a small management company. I've been working 18 with public events centers for 25 years. Actually, longer 19 than that now. I've worked in convention centers and 20 performing arts theaters, expo centers, concert halls. I've 21 been -- I've done this for a long time, and I've really 22 never looked at a place that I think was so ripe for a good 23 public events program as Kerrville and Kerr County. And I 24 didn't come to that without a great deal of effort to look 25 into this community. 188 1 This community has all the assets. It's a 2 great place to go. It's already in the tourist business. 3 We've already found out from the Convention/Visitors Bureau 4 we have 1,075 hotel rooms. We're ready for people to come 5 here. In fact, this facility here is already being utilized 6 quite a bit, even though it's -- has some inherent problems 7 with setup and tear-down, just due to its age. This 8 community has all the restaurants; you have support 9 services. Kerrville is really in the center of the state. 10 If you look at it that way, in our business, which is 11 conventions, horse business, expo centers, things like that, 12 where you can draw people from north and south, it's a good 13 place to be. And I think, from what I've seen, this is 14 going to have a great deal of success if you can take your 15 program you have now and expand this and do something with 16 it. 17 I won't dwell too much on what we have 18 recommended you do with this facility and improvements to 19 it, because Mr. Blankenship will get into that, and he has a 20 wonderful program on that. But I'll tell you about, in 21 general, what we -- we've looked at doing here, is 22 suggesting that Kerrville come in and enlarge this facility 23 and put in two arena -- multipurpose arena complex which 24 specializes in the horse business and agriculture. Some 25 people say, well, gee, yeah, that's what we're going to do 189 1 anyway, but all the elements are here to make that a 2 success. The reason we push the horse business over some of 3 the others -- and when I say "horse business," it's 4 primarily everything from breed shows to working horse 5 shows, ropings, cuttings, anything -- Arabian shows, 6 hunter-jumpers, all those shows like that. 7 There are several reasons why we recommended 8 this. The first reason is that the horse business provides 9 a better cost-versus-revenue position. You know, when 10 people come to a center, you have your horse or horses and 11 you rent a stall, and then the exhibitors, the participants, 12 pay that money to the facility. That's different than a lot 13 of places where a convention comes to town, because 14 convention means that the people who put the show on, or the 15 association, have to come up with that money. But with the 16 horse business, you spread those costs out over all your 17 participants equally, and it -- and it provides a much 18 better revenue position. The horse business is a growing 19 segment within our entertainment economy. People have more 20 time for leisure nowadays than we've ever had, and we're 21 going to have more as we get into the next few years here. 22 And the horse business is just an area that seems to be 23 growing quite a bit, so it's not like some areas that might 24 be a little iffy. It's a good place to be. 25 Thirdly, the horse business is a year-round 190 1 activity. Now, in talking to some of the hotel people and 2 Convention/Visitors Bureau, you've got some -- a really good 3 tourism market here, but it kind of peaks in late spring, 4 summer, and early fall, and then the fall and winter months 5 and I guess early spring are really -- you don't do as well 6 as you do in the other months. Well, that's not unusual for 7 a lot of tourist areas. That comes in quite a bit. But the 8 horse business, it's not -- it's a year-round business. If 9 you can look up all the places that you can see horse 10 shows -- and we have some studies back there, and you're 11 welcome to take copies with you. I believe you brought 12 some, didn't you? You'll see there shows that occur 13 year-round, so if you're looking to overcome this summer 14 peaking business, horse business is a good one to do that 15 with. 16 And the fourth and final reason why we're 17 recommending this is because you already have a Youth 18 Exhibition Center here which can form the base -- the center 19 of what you need to do. We've looked at this center quite a 20 bit, and it -- it has some years on it, but, you know, it's 21 located in a very good location to get things done. A lot 22 of the buildings here can't be used because they're -- 23 they're old, but the large show barn, the open area over 24 here, is great. That will work with horse shows, cattle 25 shows, and you can just do some improvements to it and -- 191 1 and it will form what you have right now. You can say -- 2 well, I don't want to start talking money. That's not my 3 deal; that's his deal over there. We'll blame him for all 4 the money questions. But it's a great start if you want to 5 turn this into something newer and bigger to give you 6 another industry here. 7 We looked at things -- how Kerrville would do 8 in competition with other cities, and we looked at a lot of 9 different things. One of the things we looked at is the 10 facility type and size that we could use with the support 11 services that we already have here. In other words, the 12 hotel rooms, the restaurants, the services, so many things 13 that a big center will need, and Kerrville already has those 14 in place. So, you don't have to worry about not having 15 enough hotel rooms, not having enough cleaners or feed 16 stores and things; they're all here. 17 Second thing we looked at was the size of the 18 facility and the community with comparison to other 19 competition. Now, if you can come in and enlarge this 20 facility or make it the size that Mr. Blankenship is going 21 to recommend to you, then you're right in the middle of the 22 state when it comes to the size of a facility to compete. 23 Now, that's pretty important, because a lot of those people 24 that are right in the middle that would be competing right 25 here have other things in their centers that makes it very 192 1 difficult for them to compete with you. Some of them don't 2 have government backing. Some of them have hockey and 3 different things that they do a lot. This -- what you have 4 right here is a really good place to be. 5 And then, also, the third thing that we 6 looked at was the cost of operating a facility that's based 7 on agriculture and horse show business, and although there 8 is a cost to operating centers like this, the cost there is 9 probably as low -- as reasonable as you can find compared 10 to, say, places that have concerts or places that just have 11 conventions. Convention business is great, but that's very 12 expensive to do. So, what you're looking at there is the 13 opportunity to come in and build something here that would 14 be first class and will also help the community by giving 15 you places to go and do things, and operate it at a minimum 16 cost for what you get. "Bang for the buck," as they say. 17 We looked at the economic impact, and we saw 18 that, once again -- I won't go over this too much, again, 19 but, you know, this -- the business that you can bring here 20 can be year-round, and that will help quite a bit with what 21 you've got. We looked at the number of people that would be 22 here, based on other centers that are a little larger than 23 this and smaller than this, and we figure within 5 years 24 you'll have 200,000 people a year coming through this center 25 if you build this center. And the good thing about this is 193 1 a lot of the -- a very high percentage of these people that 2 come here will be overnight stayers. They won't just be 3 coming to watch a show or some other activity, or come to an 4 arts performance or something. They'll be coming to stay. 5 That means dollars to the community, because when people 6 stay in a community, they also eat here and they stop by the 7 drug store and they get their clothes cleaned and things 8 like that. So -- so that has a lot to do with how much 9 economic impact there will be. 10 And our general look at this, I think within 11 five years we'll be doing about $19 million in this 12 community. Of course, you're already doing some here, so I 13 think what we figured out was about $17.2 million more 14 than -- in the overall tourism economy, of course, which is 15 spread out throughout the entire economy. That, to me seems 16 like -- could I have a little light? Sorry. Anyway, we 17 talked about that. The $17.2 million, added to what you've 18 got now, I think is a really good number. And I believe 19 that all of us can see how important that will be, 20 especially for a community that already has a great deal of 21 its economy based on tourism. 22 Social impact. Added to that tourism, you've 23 got things like your Youth Fair. I've seen it in other 24 cities. If you can improve your facility, you'll see your 25 Youth Fair get bigger, you'll see your sale get bigger. It 194 1 just happens that more people have interest in what you're 2 doing when do you things like that. You've also got 4-H and 3 school activities that could have a better place to go to. 4 Your Chamber of Commerce does things. You know, you'll 5 have, according to this, I think a 12,000-foot banquet hall 6 where you can do some other large banquets that can't be 7 done in your community now. So, it's not just a money 8 thing. When you build the right thing, then you help 9 yourself not just on the money end, but you also create a 10 place that can be the center of your community. 11 So, in summary, I'd say that Mr. Blankenship 12 is going to detail a medium-sized horse facility that would 13 be recommended for Kerrville, because, one, Kerrville has a 14 thriving tourist economy. We've got the size and location 15 to be competitive. And, thirdly, the existing site already 16 is here where you start and save money and do some -- 17 something very nice. So, I'm going to go ahead and turn 18 this over to Mr. Blankenship, and when we're over, if you've 19 got any questions, I'll answer them. But he's got an 20 excellent presentation. 21 MR. BLANKENSHIP: I wanted to give you a 22 little bit of an idea of how a master plan is developed, and 23 what I did was I just broke down from what we were 24 experiencing here, and that would be that the County comes 25 to us, who are the planners, and you have certain things 195 1 that are required, and you also have some things that you 2 would like, or your wishes. And what we do is we determine, 3 through what the market will bear and what the costs are, we 4 arrive at a master plan. And that Master Plan then can be 5 developed through phases, so that you are not having to 6 expend all your money at once, if you can't quite get to the 7 amount of money that you want to do, but yet it gives you a 8 starting point. And the other thing you have to realize 9 about a master plan is that it's a -- it's a work in 10 progress. It's going to change. Next year, the year after 11 that, there may be some things that you might want to do a 12 little bit differently, and so you have to build some 13 versatility into a master plan or you close yourself off. 14 After going through market analysis and 15 discussing this with the people on the committee and getting 16 some input from some others, a conceptual plan was developed 17 that shows what the master plan actually is going to 18 develop. And, I'm in the horse business and know that 19 the -- one of the major things that goes on is a separation 20 between the public and the contestants. So, you start off 21 with your public. Really, you're not going to keep them 22 separate, but you want to have different areas so that they 23 don't cross -- too much circulation, so that there's not a 24 problem with animals or whatever getting to the public and 25 that kind of thing. So, the initial thing to start off with 196 1 is the public, and then where do you want them to have 2 access to? 3 So, the major thing to have access to would 4 be the -- both of the arenas. You want them to have access 5 to the Exhibit Hall, and also that's -- kind of secondary to 6 that is the central area that could act as a concourse. And 7 one of the main criteria that the planning committee said 8 was that they wanted to be able to function as economically 9 as possible, and to do that you need to have some kind of 10 central concession area. So, we set that up so that the 11 concession area was in a central location. Then, the parts 12 that go with the arena would be the barn, the warm-up areas, 13 and then the staging, which is in direct relationship to the 14 arenas. And then, if you have any activities that involve 15 cattle or any -- any livestock that's brought in, you need 16 to be able to get to both of those areas and utilize one 17 area to do it. 18 This is how the facility sits right now. 19 You've got your arena area, the Exhibit Hall that we're in 20 right now, and then the enclosed pen area. Out back you've 21 got a covered horse arena -- a horse barn that has about 100 22 horse stalls in it, an outdoor arena, and the existing Ag 23 office building area. The area right through here is the 24 paving area that's already there. Of course, you can tell 25 this is the greenery, and that was an important aspect; we 197 1 wanted to try and -- I should say I wanted to try and keep 2 that as clean as possible and not interfere with it. 3 First thing to do, my approach was to try and 4 build -- I went through, built the facility the way I feel 5 it needed to be built, and then came back and was trying to 6 figure out a way to phase this facility construction-wise so 7 that you could keep your existing facility in operation for 8 the longest period of time, which means you're making 9 revenue off of it. So, to do that -- and not in any 10 specific order, but the first thing was to get the large 11 arena going. The large arena is approximately 210 feet by 12 330 feet. It's got an arena inside of 130 feet by 270 feet, 13 and will seat about 3,500 people. It's going to be 14 air-conditioned; it's going to have a concrete floor. The 15 walls and the roof will have insulation in them, so it will 16 be a year-round available facility. 17 The other part to that would be a large 18 enough barn to facilitate use of the area with either horses 19 or cattle or whatever that you would have going into 20 livestock for that particular area. That barn has got 300 21 stalls in it. It's 200 and -- 210 feet by 260 feet. It 22 will have a wash rack area. All the stalls will have 23 electricity to them. And we'll put one office or work area 24 in that -- in that barn so that they can use it as a 25 separate entity. 198 1 To facilitate the people using the area, you 2 need to have a warm-up arena that's as close as possible so 3 that they can go out, work the horses -- and we work horses 4 at 1:00, 2:00, 3 o'clock in the morning, so there needs to 5 be plenty of warm-up areas to do that, and we need to be 6 close. Also, what I'm calling a staging area is when you're 7 getting ready to go into a class or show your animal, what 8 they try and do for that class is get everybody together so 9 that they can determine which contestants are there and get 10 them in order to get into class. And that's what we're 11 calling the staging area. The warm-up arena is 100 feet by 12 200 feet, which is big enough to exercise most any horses. 13 The rodeo guys can divide that in half and do their rounds, 14 if the staging is 80 feet by 120. 15 Next. Now, the way I'm going through this, 16 you're still in operation in your existing facility here. 17 Barn Number 2 can be added, and it would have 200 stalls in 18 it. It would have a roof with no walls -- I forgot this 19 one. This barn is going to have -- it's going to be 20 insulated. It's going to have walls and will have some 21 ventilation put in it to keep it aired out. This particular 22 barn is just going to have a roof on it with no walls. It 23 will have insulation in the roof, though. And that 24 insulation that I used was very similar to what I used down 25 in Glen Rose. It's a screen foil material that actually 199 1 rejects the heat, so you can come inside in some of these 2 buildings without any walls on them and be 10 degrees 3 cooler, because the heat from the metal is not getting 4 through. This barn will also have an office area and 5 electricity to all the stalls. 6 Next is to add a warm-up area for Barn Number 7 2. And that, there again, is 100 foot by 200 feet. Once we 8 do that, we arrive at a point where the existing facility 9 has -- needs something to be done to it. And the idea was 10 that, depending on how the timing works, your Youth Stock 11 Show, once it is complete, you could come into this area and 12 begin your renovation. What we looked at on the existing 13 facility, the existing barn area over there can be utilized 14 pretty well. It has some drawbacks because of the -- you 15 would like to have your arena larger than 100 feet wide when 16 you're doing a major activity. You would also like to have 17 a little bit better front so that you would get some better 18 eye appeal coming off of 27. 19 We looked at the exposition center that we're 20 in right now, and -- and one of the problems you run into 21 with a major facility is that you would like for your city 22 to be a little bit larger. There's also some things in here 23 that are going to have to be done with the A.D.A. It 24 functions well for right now, but with the new facility, it 25 would have to function a little bit more multi-functional. 200 1 So, we felt like that this particular building, to renovate 2 it, would be more than just replacing, so we took the 3 existing exposition center and the pen area off, felt like 4 that would just be too much money to be expended that we 5 could utilize in a different area much better. So, what we 6 would do on the front of the building, what -- they have 7 what they call wind columns. You have your large columns 8 that come across in your second bay. The first bay's wind 9 columns, those wind columns can be taken off. We take off 10 the front bay of that building over there on that -- on the 11 side and leave an area that we can add onto. 12 And, what we would end up coming through is 13 the -- doing a front addition that would allow you entry 14 into the facility. Put a porte-cochere out front so that 15 you can drop people off and keep them out of the weather, 16 and also create an area around the outside that would tie in 17 for creating the eye appeal that we're talking about. This 18 specific porte-cochere, what I'm talking about is coming and 19 angling the sides and rounding the middle area and utilizing 20 your stonework, and maybe a metal canopy out there to draw 21 people's attention, and also to focus the flow of people 22 into the front of the facility. 23 Uh-oh. (Error message on appeared on 24 screen.) I can talk while he's playing. Once that first 25 original addition is made, you'd come back and start Arena 201 1 Number 2. Arena Number 2 is 170 feet wide and 330 feet 2 long. It also has an arena inside it of 130 by 270. It's 3 open on three sides, with the side connecting up to the 4 existing area, the only one that would be closed off. This 5 would be a little bit more cost -- less costly for somebody 6 to operate if they didn't have quite the money that, say, a 7 large horse show or a large rodeo would come in. It might 8 just be some people that are wanting to do a weekend show, 9 that they could afford this arena better. 10 After you do Arena Number 2, you come in with 11 your new Exhibition Hall. What we would do is we would 12 build that inside the arena so that you wouldn't have to 13 have any roof. The roof that's over there now would 14 function for that, so that would be a minimal amount of 15 money expended to create a clear, open space with no columns 16 in it, 100 feet by 120 feet wide. Onto that, the bay that's 17 to the -- to the righthand side is a 25-foot bay. You take 18 those 25-foot bays and make those into meeting rooms. You 19 can have three meetings over there that are about 625 square 20 feet each, but you give your breakouts for any kind of 21 convention or something that comes in. And, also, one of 22 those could be utilized as a storage facility. 23 Part of the original idea was to centralize 24 the concession so that you could more economically operate 25 it. To do that, the concession would be put in one of the 202 1 bay areas right on the underside of the exhibition area. 2 Also, to each side, you would have enough toilet space that 3 would accommodate actually the whole facility, so that that 4 particular area becomes your central course and everybody is 5 circulating through there, and so that -- that's why we're 6 calling this a concourse area. It becomes the central 7 walkway, and off of that you can feed multiple shows. You 8 can have a show going on in Arena Number 1 that comes down 9 this side, a show that goes in Arena Number 2 coming in this 10 side, and you can have somebody in Exhibition Hall at the 11 same time. So, you can actually have three or four 12 different operations going on at the same time, and still 13 all accommodate them with one concession area. 14 The last part is to set up an area on the 15 backside that is totally covered. This area right through 16 here would be covered, and in that you would put your 17 central warm-up area. This is where they would come -- 18 everyone that's a contestant would be in that area probably 19 just before they come into the staging area to go into their 20 classes. That would utilize the existing covered area that 21 you have right now. What we'll do is we'll take the pens 22 out of there, and I understand that there's ways to reuse 23 those, or maybe even sell those to people. But the covered 24 area would function very well for, actually, any other kind 25 of show that you want to do. This staging area -- just the 203 1 warm-up and that staging area are all portable; you can 2 actually take those out and you can have a show set up 3 inside this particular area. 4 Next thing is to add the remainder of the 5 parking. On the far side over here, I've got approximately 6 930 spaces, with about another 900 -- close to 1,000 on this 7 side, so that you can get 1,900 cars out there. Also, over 8 to the left-hand side, on the other side where the gully 9 comes through here, there's an area that you can utilize for 10 trailer parking. There's about 70 spaces that can be easily 11 gotten into that site. And also down here on this side, we 12 have a smaller area with about 30 trailer parking places. 13 So, you are very well set up to accommodate either a large 14 horse show, the PRCA rodeo, or actually the festival. 15 This pretty much is the Site Master Plan as 16 it was developed from the original, using the conceptual 17 idea and the market analysis to determine that you needed 18 two rodeo arenas. One of the things that Mike determined in 19 his study was that you probably could utilize about 500 20 horse stalls. These two barns accommodate those 500 horse 21 stalls. That would allow you to have a significant impact 22 on having a PRCA rodeo, a large horse show, or any kind of 23 agriculture facility. 24 The other thing I wanted to show you was the 25 existing grading that's out -- out there right now. To help 204 1 keep the cost down, I was trying to manipulate it so that 2 you wouldn't have too much site work to do. The existing 3 grades that are out there right now, this is about 1590. 4 What we'd do is we'd come into the -- your original area and 5 we would put a concrete floor inside there and put that one 6 foot above the grade that's outside right now. By doing 7 that, that allows the large arena or the main arena to 8 function by dropping its arena area down to 1585, so that 9 your seating around that accommodates good spectator 10 viewing. 11 Then you come out on the outside at 1588, 12 which we definitely need about 6 inches of your area out 13 there. The arena on this side would connect directly into 14 the 1591 when you come out here at 1590.5, so you're still 15 about 6 inches above the grade as it exists outside. This 16 will be a section looking through the barn areas and the 17 existing barn. If I'm standing out on 27 looking back 18 towards the facility, this is your major arena, this is your 19 existing facility, and this is the smaller arena. There's 20 your 1-foot height there at 1591. This shows the drop down 21 to 1585, and then back up to 1588, and shows a circulation 22 underneath the stands to get back to the events that can be 23 utilized in the rodeo. The existing facility would be 24 utilized in this way, I feel, the best -- getting your 25 maximum bang for the buck, and utilizing that area as your 205 1 central core. 2 To illustrate some of the things that can go 3 on, your Youth Stock Show right now takes up this area and 4 the area over on the -- the old arena. And I understand 5 that they also have to set up twice for certain pens for 6 animals coming in. In this particular way, you can cover 7 the whole stock show in those two arenas and the middle 8 concourse area without having to do any setup whatsoever -- 9 any re-setup whatsoever. Also, we're hopeful, like Mike 10 says, that once you do build the new facility, this -- this 11 will bring more and more people in. There again, these are 12 portable. You can take them out and you can expand down 13 into this covered area, and that covered area is 130 by 270 14 feet, so you can almost add another 50 percent on top of 15 what we've already added, which is about 30 percent. 16 Another thing that you have down at your folk 17 festival that occurs down here by Schreiner's, there is the 18 possibility that you guys here could accommodate that. And 19 one of the things that we were looking at was the area 20 that's over on the side towards 534. This whole area could 21 be utilized for the folk festival instead of down at 22 Schreiner's. Also, the area that's down next to the 23 Guadalupe, coming through here, could be utilized for 24 festivals, and then the covered area also. If you got 25 somebody that's coming in and you're having bad weather, 206 1 they'll be covered right here and they can still go on with 2 their festival, but you would have access coming across if 3 you needed to have -- utilize any kind of restroom 4 facilities. I forgot to mention this, but there's restroom 5 facilities in each barn. 6 The Home and Garden show, as it exists right 7 now, is contained here and about halfway through the 8 existing barn area that we're remodeling. We're almost 9 doubling the size of the home and garden by coming down the 10 area that's over on the side, which is about 50 feet wide 11 and 300 feet long. There again, you got the same setup, 12 that it could just keep on expanding into this area also. 13 As far as having a rodeo, your existing horse 14 barn that you've got out in the back is about 90 feet by 200 15 feet total, about 100 horses. We're still saying that that 16 is a -- a good facility, and that we would reutilize it for 17 horse stalls, but also it could be utilized for cattle pens 18 if you had a rodeo going in on either one of these arenas, 19 or maybe even both with activities. All they'd have to do 20 was build up, come across, and your pen area should be here 21 and here, so they're just feeding across. You'd only have 22 one area that people would have to cross any kind of animal 23 movement. 24 The horse show facility -- actually, you 25 still have your 300 and your 200 stalls. You can put 115 207 1 temporary stalls into the concourse area and another 100 2 temporary stalls into your existing horse barn, so you'd 3 have 715 horse stalls. That is a large -- just under a 4 large show. The larger shows might have 900 to 1,000 5 horses. The average is probably going to be somewhere 6 around, say, 400. The last show that we did up in Fort 7 Worth, which was an Arabian show, we had 400 horses. 8 That -- that took up about 500 stalls. You can accommodate 9 a very good horse show for that -- for the stalls that 10 you've got. 11 So, just to get back to the original, that is 12 the Master Plan utilizing the information that we received, 13 and also the requirements from the County and what you 14 wanted and the conceptual idea behind the market analysis, 15 what it does is it provides you with a facility that is 16 versatile, is economical to operate, utilizing what we felt 17 could be utilized on the site and with -- would accommodate 18 multi-function shows and be able to operate for a good while 19 just as it sits right here. That's it. 20 Has anybody got any questions? Yeah? 21 MR. RAYMOND: Would you go back to that slide 22 during the stock show that you have there for the -- 23 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The Youth? 24 MR. RAYMOND: Yes. 25 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Okay, flip back. 208 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mike, since we're on the 2 record, we need to ask the questioners to identify 3 themselves. 4 MR. RAYMOND: James Raymond. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, James. 6 MR. RAYMOND: I got about five questions. 7 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Okay. 8 MR. RAYMOND: That barn on the left that's 9 going to be open-sided, that big building. 10 AUDIENCE: The barn. 11 MR. RAYMOND: That one right there. That -- 12 that purple-pink looking thing. 13 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The arena? 14 MR. RAYMOND: That's going to be open on all 15 three sides? 16 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes. 17 MR. RAYMOND: You ever been here in January? 18 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes, and I've been to Fort 19 Worth in January. 20 MR. RAYMOND: Okay. Now, where are the show 21 arenas going to be? I'm not a hog lover, but for the hog 22 people -- Kensing -- where are you going to have your show 23 ring? 24 MR. BLANKENSHIP: I don't know whether you 25 can see it right here, but we've got a 60-foot by 100-foot 209 1 area. 2 MR. RAYMOND: In the middle? 3 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Sir? 4 MR. RAYMOND: In the middle? 5 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes. 6 MR. RAYMOND: Okay. 7 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Now, there could be some 8 reconfiguration of these things. All I was trying to 9 illustrate was the fact that we can accommodate them. You 10 can actually accommodate a lot more, and I could keep 11 showing variations and variations. 12 MR. RAYMOND: So, you'll stall the hogs all 13 in that building and show just like we're doing here? 14 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes. You can also put a -- 15 you can also put them in the other side. I just picked an 16 area. 17 MR. RAYMOND: Where are you going to have the 18 cattle? Also in the building with the show arena in the 19 middle? 20 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Right here. There's your 21 cattle. And I would figure that what you do is you'd show 22 them in the warm-up arena. 23 MR. RAYMOND: Where's your tie-outs? 24 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The tie-outs are here. 25 MR. RAYMOND: At night. Tie-outs at night. 210 1 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Those are -- 2 MR. RAYMOND: You take cattle outside at 3 night; you don't leave them in that hot building. 4 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, that building's 5 air-conditioned. 6 MR. RAYMOND: You still take them out for 7 fresh air and cool them. 8 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Then what you do is you 9 take them out here and tie them up. 10 MR. RAYMOND: Okay, that's good. 11 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yeah. This -- the thing 12 about it is, all I wanted to illustrate to you was that 13 you're accommodating probably 20 to 30 percent more, and 14 that we -- we have a good enough area that you can get to 15 a -- to where you want to show exactly how you want to do 16 that. 17 MR. RAYMOND: Where are you going to have the 18 sheep and the goats? 19 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The sheep and goats are 20 right here. 21 MR. RAYMOND: In that building? It's open? 22 They wouldn't let me open the doors over here last year; 23 they had their show on Saturday. It gets too cold in the 24 building. 25 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The only thing I can say to 211 1 that is that we put up walls. What I tried to do here was 2 to accommodate a cost factor also. Come in there with a few 3 walls, or those three sides, it's a few more bucks. That 4 can be discussed. 5 MR. RAYMOND: I just wanted to bring up those 6 three or four points, because that's where you're going to 7 get all your questions. 8 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Sure. Yes, ma'am? 9 MS. WEATHERSTON: How big are we going to do 10 stalls? 11 MR. BLANKENSHIP: You've got to say who you 12 are. 13 MS. WEATHERSTON: Oh. Cindy Weatherston. 14 I've been to horse shows, and I want to know how big the 15 stalls will be. 16 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Stalls are 10-by-10. 17 MS. WEATHERSTON: Is there any way to make 18 them bigger for the bigger horses? We're talking about a 19 hunter-jumper; you're not going to fit a 17-hand horse in a 20 10-by-10 stall. 21 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, you can have them 22 larger. We could accommodate some larger. Say if you want 23 to make them 12-by-12, 10-by-10, accommodate them. How long 24 is your show going to be? 25 MS. WEATHERSTON: How long? Three days, four 212 1 days. 2 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Usually -- I mean, most of 3 the areas that I've seen have accommodated hunter-jumpers in 4 that size. I know it's a tight fit, but they do it 5 essentially because of the -- the useful -- usefulness, but 6 they can accommodate most every other horse in that 10-by-10 7 stall. We can come in here and have some that are 10-by-12, 8 though. How many horses do you have in your show? 9 MS. WEATHERSTON: About -- it's -- dressage 10 is what I'm in. It's probably 150 to 200 horses. 11 MR. BLANKENSHIP: What we do, I think, is we 12 take temporary stalls and configure them so that you would 13 accommodate those horses in larger stalls, if that's what 14 you wanted to do. And then your dressage show, of course, 15 can be in any one of those arenas. So, I know that from our 16 horse show, what happened to us is that you end up having a 17 longer event, because you don't have availability of the 18 extra arena. When you have the extra arena, you can 19 sometimes cut down a day in your show, which saves you 20 money. 21 MR. HOLLAND: Eddie Holland. I guess my 22 question is, on that building over there, the existing -- 23 you know, Exhibit Hall, we call it. You're talking about 24 putting a concrete addition; is that correct? 25 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes. 213 1 MR. HOLLAND: And it will be air-conditioned 2 also; is that correct? 3 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes. 4 MR. HOLLAND: And what size meeting room? 5 Because that's one of our biggest things. I'm surprised 6 Sudie hasn't jumped up and down on that yet. That's our big 7 concern. We want to marry the country with the city and 8 make it a functional facility for everyone, and we need a 9 larger, you know, exhibit area that's heated, 10 air-conditioned, you know, that has -- like, you're talking 11 about breakout rooms, but bigger than this room right here, 12 so where do you see that? 13 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, right now, that room 14 right there is 12,000 square feet. 15 MR. HOLLAND: What is this? 16 MR. BLANKENSHIP: It can be accommodated to 17 be larger, but -- 18 MS. BURDITT: This is hollow, so it's not 19 much bigger than this, really. 20 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yeah, but it's clear. 21 There's nothing in there. There's no toilets on this side 22 or that side. In other words, it's a completely open area, 23 so it functions a little bit better. 12,000 was picked 24 because that's what we felt was easily accommodated. If, 25 down the road, you feel like you need 14,000, that can be 214 1 accommodated in here; we can go all the way up. You can 2 keep expanding this on down. We can go all the way up to 3 20,000 square feet. The breakout rooms, what I did was just 4 utilized the 25 feet that's on the side over there, so you 5 had three of them that were, you know, 625, 650 square feet. 6 You can put movable partitions in there and make the rooms 7 larger or smaller, however you want to break it out. 8 MR. HOLLAND: Did you also allow a dressing 9 area? That's always a concern, too. 10 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Are you talking about 11 for -- dressing areas for? 12 MR. HOLLAND: For contestants during the 13 shows, activities. 14 MR. BLANKENSHIP: They're in here. We 15 accommodate some of that in the toilet areas, so it's a -- 16 it's a facility with shower and -- and with lockers. 17 MR. HOLLAND: And if we have a rodeo going 18 on -- a lot of times this facility is booked for 19 multi-events at the same time. Do you have, like, areas -- 20 you know, at 3,500 with the permanent seating -- I assume 21 that's permanent seating -- where can you put exhibits, like 22 if exhibitors have exhibits going on at the same time? Is 23 there anything around the side, or is that totally utilized 24 in that building? 25 MR. BLANKENSHIP: What I do is, this 215 1 concourse area, which is your 50-foot wide bay that you've 2 got over here, you run exhibitors or vendors, whatever you 3 want to do, down both sides of that area, so that people are 4 crossing in front of them, so that makes your vendors happy. 5 Of course, you can -- more than likely, what would happen 6 is -- go to the next one -- this whole area through here 7 is -- I don't know if you -- about 15,000, 16,000 square 8 feet. They'll have a concrete floor in it and a roof, and 9 it will only have the one area of the columns -- well, two 10 column bays coming through on that whole area can be 11 utilized for vendors or anyone wanting to show. 12 MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir. One more question. 13 James Raymond. I would suggest you put toilet facilities in 14 all four corners instead of just in the center, 'cause it's 15 a long way from one corner up to the other, and you got a 16 lot of people in there. And what about the people around 17 here in these horse barns? They have to come all the way 18 from out in the present polo fields all the way up to there 19 to -- 20 MR. BLANKENSHIP: No, there's toilet 21 facilities in the barns. 22 MR. RAYMOND: Oh. 23 MR. BLANKENSHIP: There -- there's toilet 24 facilities in each arena. 25 MR. RAYMOND: I thought you said they were 216 1 right in the center. 2 MR. BLANKENSHIP: That's where the main ones 3 are. Your small ones will be off to the side. You wouldn't 4 want to accommodate -- you know, you start adding, that adds 5 up pretty quick. 6 MR. RAYMOND: Better put lots of them in 7 there. 8 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Right. You put your 9 main -- you put your main amounts in the middle there. 10 MR. RAYMOND: Us old men can't walk too far. 11 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Do what? 12 MR. RAYMOND: I said us old men can't walk 13 too far. We don't have time. All right? 14 AUDIENCE: Speak for yourself. 15 MR. RAYMOND: You got the same problem. 16 MR. BLANKENSHIP: You've got -- you've got 17 your toilet facilities on this side here and here, here, 18 here. (Indicating.) 19 MR. RAYMOND: That's good. 20 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Here, here. But the -- 21 most of them are in the middle. 22 MR. RAYMOND: Good. 23 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Hand up here. Yes, Mr. 24 Williams? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bill Williams. Will 217 1 you dwell on the concession area and tell people whether or 2 not that concession area accommodates both fast food service 3 as well as catered service and so forth in the mall. 4 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The way it's set up right 5 now, it's meant to function as both. Either a -- it could 6 be a cooking area or a catering-type kitchen. If somebody 7 comes in and just caters out, you can have your concession 8 area in the middle area. I don't know whether any of y'all 9 have been to Glen Rose, but we set that up so that you could 10 have an area, say, like this that would have tables in it, 11 so it would be a nice area for people to come and eat. 12 Also, since it's directly off the Exhibit Hall, it can be 13 utilized for dinners or anything that you want to. It would 14 accommodate a large kitchen with storage, dry and cold, and 15 just be a central area that would function off of that. 16 Yes, ma'am? 17 MS. CALCOTE: Would you repeat each question 18 somebody asks, please, sir? Plus I've got a question. Did 19 you say both arenas will be concrete floors? 20 MR. BLANKENSHIP: No. This one has a 21 concrete floor; this one just has a dirt floor. 22 MS. CALCOTE: Okay. 23 (Court reporter asked speaker's name.) 24 MS. CALCOTE: I'm sorry, I'm Hazel Calcote. 25 On the one with the concrete floor, how do you project to 218 1 use it for horse shows, rodeos, whatever, on concrete? I 2 have ridden on concrete floors and fallen every time I've 3 ridden on one, 'cause it digs out, goes down to the 4 concrete, and the horse's feet get turned out. 5 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The minimum amount of soil 6 you use on top of them is somewhere between 8 inches and a 7 foot. 8 MS. CALCOTE: That's not much. 9 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, the only thing I can 10 tell you is it functions very well in Will Rogers; that's 11 about the -- Will Rogers is set up exactly the same, and 12 they have ice hockey. They have a concrete floor where they 13 have the kids come graduate. And when we have a horse show, 14 we put in about a foot of dirt. 15 MS. CALCOTE: A foot is not 8 inches. 16 MR. BLANKENSHIP: It depends on what kind of 17 dirt you get, and specifically who's using it. Rodeo guys 18 don't like dirt the way regular shows, English or Western 19 types, like it. Each one's going to have a different 20 criteria for the type of dirt that they want, so that is the 21 one thing in the facility, when you do put a concrete floor, 22 you're going to be faced with taking the dirt in and out and 23 accommodating different people's tastes and what they want 24 for their dirt. That's the one good thing about the 25 facility that you've got. You've got plenty of area out 219 1 here to have a site for the soil to be stored. Of course, 2 there will be two or three different types of soil. Hand in 3 the middle. Yes, ma'am? 4 MS. BURDITT: Sudie Burditt. Will you 5 address transportation, loading and unloading, and flow of 6 traffic amongst the buildings? 7 MR. BLANKENSHIP: The loading area for 8 bringing cattle and everything I put down at the backside of 9 the old existing horse barn so that it could be utilized by 10 coming in, backing up, flowing through and out again, so 11 it's away from any kind of public traffic. The public areas 12 would be coming in off of 27 in three different areas. 13 Right now, the way I've got it planned, you know, you can 14 get in there a little bit further down the road and do a few 15 more studies, and these specific locations may change. The 16 reason I put them where I did was because it gives you good 17 free flow back into these areas. It's hard to see from 18 here, but there's parking down through here, and a lot of 19 times that's where a lot of the contestants are going to end 20 up. And they will park closer to their event areas through 21 here, unload the horses. Rodeos, ropings, things that, are, 22 like, weekend activities or maybe day activities; a lot of 23 times they'll just pull the trailer up, tie up the horse, 24 run their event, and then they're gone. You've got plenty 25 of areas that are close to that -- to do that with. Does 220 1 that kind of answer what you're talking about? The one 2 question that -- that's come up is about Riverside Drive and 3 what to do about it. In one respect, my thinking is it 4 would be good to close it to public traffic, but you still 5 want to utilize it, so I think that's something that would 6 have to be looked at a little bit more seriously as you get 7 into this. But, right now, what I'm saying is that it would 8 still be a public area and you would come off of it in three 9 areas to get into the facility. And that facility would be 10 closed off on that back side; you wouldn't have people 11 coming in except for those specific areas. Yes, ma'am? 12 MS. BUTLER: I'm Annette Butler with the 13 official Texas State Arts and Crafts Fair. And the areas 14 that you have marked "Festivals," are there electrical 15 outlets of any sort out there, or is this just -- 16 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, right now -- I didn't 17 say there was any electrical out there. There's plenty of 18 electrical in here. If that needs to be addressed, I think 19 that's something that we could do. 20 MS. BUTLER: Well, the river side is not an 21 option for fine art people. 22 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Hmm? 23 MS. BUTLER: Because if it rains, we're in 24 trouble. So I was just wondering, up -- especially in your 25 upper left-hand side where you have the trailer parking now, 221 1 do those -- would those be proposed to handle all of the 2 needs for people with -- with trailers if they come in, and 3 is that a -- just an open area that they're talking about? 4 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Right now it's just an open 5 area. If we wanted to accommodate -- put electricity out 6 there, I think it's very easily done. We got power coming 7 down 27 right now. Just take a transformer out there. We 8 can set up stations and set up a docking area out there if 9 we needed to. Also, your art festivals and stuff can also 10 be held inside here. Any other questions? Yes, sir? 11 MR. DANZ: Eddie Danz. When you're talking 12 about unloading trucks, over there on that horse barn -- 13 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yeah? 14 MR. DANZ: -- are you going to -- are we 15 going to be able to make it to where a truck can come in 16 from the front side to unload? 17 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Coming in from 27? 18 MR. DANZ: Yes, sir. 19 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Oh, yeah. All they have to 20 really do is come in, make a turn, come down, loop back. 21 And this is just saying -- I looped it this way. We may 22 want to come and loop it back, depending oh, you know a 23 little bit further study on exactly how this works out, but 24 it seemed to work best, because you could fit it right in 25 here. It's out of the way, they don't have to worry about 222 1 getting in any trailer bay or anything like that. 2 MR. DANZ: Also the load to sell -- 3 (Court reporter couldn't hear, asked speaker to repeat his statement.) 4 5 MR. DANZ: On our loading sheet, we need a 6 fork on one so that you can back -- set it up closer to the 7 arena so that you don't have to set up again, to track all 8 the way across there on certain events. 9 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, I had kind of planned 10 that this would be a permanent one on this side. But, yeah, 11 there could be a -- a chute set up that could be utilized. 12 I think that depends on the management here and what they 13 want to do. Yeah, you can come over to this side right 14 through here. Come in, back, return, and put it right 15 there. These are open, so you can get into here if you had 16 a smaller truck. You can come in, back up, put the cattle 17 into here, calves or whatever. The thing about it is, the 18 run from here to there only crosses one -- one area where it 19 works out pretty good. But all that being open, the columns 20 are on 25-foot centers, so a truck could only come in back 21 and then pull out. Yes, ma'am? 22 MS. WILLIAMS: I'm Lou Williams, and talk to 23 me more about this center part, about how much can get in 24 there, and is that divided by that kitchen or whatever? 25 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Go back to the Home and 223 1 Garden. The area that's down here, I got fifteen 10-by-10 2 vendor areas across that run right through here. 3 MS. WILLIAMS: I guess I'm really thinking 4 about where you just need seating and -- an event that you 5 don't need vendors and things. How do you arrange the 6 seating? 7 MR. BLANKENSHIP: If you wanted just to have 8 a meeting like we're having right now? 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Yeah, or a dinner for 1,000 10 people. 11 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Okay. That would be 12 accommodated in the Exhibit Hall, itself. And, essentially, 13 you're looking at a little bit more square footage than what 14 you have right here, so this particular area that you're 15 sitting in is what would be accommodated there. And if you 16 had an overflow of people, they would be out into here. Say 17 you had seating and you also wanted to feed them. You can 18 have your discussions or panels or talks like we're doing 19 right now and come out here and do your tables and feed 20 them, or vice-versa, go back and forth. 21 MS. WILLIAMS: How much area is in that lower 22 part? 23 MR. BLANKENSHIP: It's about 15,000 square 24 feet. 25 MS. WILLIAMS: What if you had a concert? 224 1 How many can you bring in? 2 MR. HOLLAND: Goes to the other arena. 3 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yeah. I would think if you 4 got a concert that you're bringing in, you would bring them 5 into here. 6 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Take the dirt out, have a 8 concert floor. And you can have about 6,000 people. 9 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. 10 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Also, one of the things 11 that -- once you get down the road a little bit and know 12 what you're going to be doing, there are some things in 13 these arenas that you can do to accommodate the different 14 facilities and the lighting and this kind of stuff, so this 15 would be the -- the area that you want to utilize for this 16 kind of concert. Yes, sir? 17 MR. ACKMAN: I'm Steve Ackman. I recently 18 got interested in your entrances there. Is that for exit 19 also? 20 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Oh, you're talking about 21 for here? 22 MR. ACKMAN: Up on 27. 23 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes. 24 MR. ACKMAN: Is that entrance -- is it also 25 for exit? 225 1 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes. We might have to -- 2 we might have to do some things to make it work. 3 MR. ACKMAN: One of the ideas is that a 4 majority of your -- your spectators and whatever are going 5 back to Kerrville, and that they have to cross 27 to go back 6 into Kerrville, which is going to be a major mess if you 7 get, like, 900 cars in here and then that's the only three 8 exits as well as entrance. You might make it something 9 else, as far as maybe exiting onto River Road, like we did 10 during the fair last year. 11 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, that's true. You'd 12 have these areas right though here that you can go out, too. 13 All I was saying was they need to be controlled. You would 14 want to have the whole area blocked off so that you just 15 don't have every Tom, Dick, and Harry coming into your show, 16 but you would have to actually have six entrances and exits 17 out of the facility. 18 MR. ACKMAN: Is that up front, down by the 19 entrance -- (inaudible.) 20 (Court reporter couldn't hear, asked speaker to repeat his statement. Speaker would not 21 repeat his statement.) 22 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes, sir, I would think 23 they would. 24 MR. RAYMOND: The lady can't hear up here. 25 COURT REPORTER: What did he say? 226 1 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Is it going to be well- 2 lighted. Yes, ma'am? 3 MS. WENDELE: Mindy Wendele from City of 4 Kerrville. Bill, could you address how the parking lot -- 5 is it going to be a parking lot? Is it going to be green 6 space? Also, the signage. You know, we have a curb appeal 7 problem. How can we -- how we're going to address that, and 8 the landscaping. 9 MR. BLANKENSHIP: We can't blow this up right 10 now, can we? Can't get any closer. As far as the parking, 11 what I figure that we would end up doing, the initial thing 12 is to come in and just do what they did out here, which 13 would be the base and some gravel; no real asphalt or 14 concrete until you got to the point to where the facility 15 was actually making more money. As far as signage and curb 16 appeal, that's why I did what I did out here. I was wanting 17 to put some landscaping area out in front, and also utilize 18 the walk area so that you're gathering people coming into a 19 focal point. The signage, I figure what we do there is 20 raise up an area, some kind of wall; more than likely a 21 stone-type wall, and cap that off with some kind of metal 22 that you would then come in and put your "Hill Country Youth 23 Exhibition Center" on both sides of these corners, so it's 24 easily seen from along 27 going both ways. Does that answer 25 you? Yes, sir? 227 1 MR. TAYLOR: I'm Ed Taylor, and I want to ask 2 you how many can unload at one time there? Our problem now 3 is that just when you come in -- I'm not speaking about the 4 horse barn; I'm talking about when we come to unload, 5 there's not enough places to sit there for hours and unload. 6 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Are you talking about, 7 like, for the goats and sheep and the stock show? Well, 8 like I said before, the area that -- that's through here is 9 all open, so I would think that you could probably 10 accommodate -- there's about 10 areas through there, about 11 25 feet wide, that you could probably pull those cars in, 12 trucks, trailers, back them up and unload whatever animals 13 you need to unload. Also, if they're utilizing this 14 particular facility, there's some gate areas that could be 15 utilized on it to get into it. This one's down, so you 16 couldn't do that. You have to come from the backside here 17 and come in and unload into there. But, it will be wide 18 enough that you could pull a trailer down in there to make 19 the road turn back, come back out. No matter what you do, 20 when you're trying to get animals in fast, there is going to 21 be some congestion. The backside over here from the cattle 22 area would be probably the easiest to do. 23 (Discussion off the record.) 24 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Any other questions? Okay. 25 Thank you very much. 228 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me have the 2 microphone. I failed to properly acknowledge the 3 participation of members of our staff. Eddie Holland and 4 Laurinda Boyd and Glenn Holekamp, their input was invaluable 5 to the committee as it did its work. I'd also like to ask 6 if Commissioner Letz would like to come up and give us a 7 thought or two of how he sees this plan. Commissioner, 8 where are you? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have nothing, Bill; 10 you've said it all. We're ready to go. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can't believe that 12 we said it all. Thank you. Anybody else have any questions 13 about it? Judge Henneke? Yes? 14 AUDIENCE: No one talked about the cost. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're right, no one 16 talked about the cost. 17 AUDIENCE: I was curious. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, you want to 19 come up and address that? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Estimated cost, $6.8 22 million to do the whole thing. Do we have that? Not yet. 23 Are we going to get it? We don't know. When are we going 24 to start? We haven't got any idea. We wanted to unveil the 25 plan for the public to see and get input from those folks 229 1 who have used the facility, would intend to use it again and 2 so forth. We haven't formulated an action plan beyond this. 3 Other questions? 4 AUDIENCE: Is the City planning on 5 participating in this? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the City planning 7 on participating in this? I don't see any current 8 councilmen. I see a former mayor there. But we wanted them 9 to be advised about it, and certainly we would encourage 10 their participation. Any other questions? Judge, do you 11 want to adjourn this Court session? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We are adjourned. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for coming. 14 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 5:15 p.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 230 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 5th day of July, 2000. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25