1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Tuesday, July 11, 2000 10 1:30 p.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 BUDGET WORKSHOP 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Tuesday, July 11, 2000, at 1:30 p.m., a Budget Workshop 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, it's 1:30 on Tuesday 7 afternoon, July 11th, Year 2000. We'll call to order this 8 budget workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. I 9 believe all the Commissioners have their budget books, as 10 well as their schedule of workshops, and what we're 11 scheduled for first today is a revenue overview by the 12 County Auditor, Mr. Tomlinson. Tommy? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. One page is titled 14 Estimated Fund Balances for year ending 9/30/2000. This -- 15 this worksheet or this schedule estimates what -- what we're 16 starting with for -- at the beginning of the year. And just 17 to give you a back -- some background as to how I arrived at 18 this, on the revenue side, I -- I look at each revenue line 19 item one at a time, and -- and go -- you know, go to -- go 20 to the records and -- and for last year, for '98-'99, and 21 look at trends as to how collections come in month-by-month 22 through the year. And, as a result of that, my tax revenue 23 estimate is -- is in the second column. Third column is my 24 estimated non-tax revenue for -- for this fiscal year; be 25 essentially the same thing with expenditures for '99/2000. 3 1 And, I go in and look at every budget, item by item, and try 2 to -- to anticipate and project from what I -- what I have 3 through -- well, at this -- at this situation, through May 4 the 31st, is take -- take that and look at last year, plus 5 what's been budgeted for this year, and come up with some 6 reasonable amount that I -- that I expect the expenditures 7 to be for -- for the year. 8 You'll see the -- the fund balance or the 9 cash balances for -- for the General Fund show a decrease of 10 approximately $2 million, so we all know what that is. 11 That's expenditure of -- of proceeds of tax for the 12 construction project. And Road and Bridge, which is this -- 13 the center part of the page, shows all the funds that relate 14 to Road and Bridge. I'd say the -- you know, the estimated 15 balances are relatively flat or considered -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sorry, I didn't hear 17 that. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I said I would consider them 19 relatively flat. I mean, as far as from -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: -- from year end to year end, 22 considering the amount. Percentage-wise, it's not a lot. 23 See some increase in -- in fund balances for -- for 24 non-tax -- for non-tax funds. That's on the bottom section. 25 A big part of that is -- well, almost all of it is in -- for 4 1 the juvenile facility. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what, Tommy? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: For the juvenile facility. 4 Expenditures in -- in that fund are -- are well below 5 what -- what we budgeted, so you see the difference, from 6 326,000 to 545. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, that -- balance 8 there, can that be used elsewhere in the county, or does it 9 have to stay with that fund? Can it be transferred to -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I think that's a Judge 11 question. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is a public facility 13 corporation, which is a special use corporation that owns 14 the facility, and the law says that any surplus funds can be 15 used for general county purposes. Now, the question 16 becomes, what are surplus funds? I mean, we want to run 17 that facility like any business; you want to have a 18 reserve -- operating reserve. We've also -- we're also 19 entered into discussions about expanding the facility, 20 because it's -- it's bursting at the seams. I mean, they 21 have a rated capacity of 51, and they probably average 49 22 and a half kids out there. And there is a plan that's being 23 discussed, which would obviously have to come here before it 24 gets very much further, to expand the facility by 24 beds 25 because of the demand. And, so, the answer to the question 5 1 is yes, technically, surplus funds from a public facility 2 corporation like that are available for general county 3 purposes. But you also have to operate it as a business and 4 have appropriate operating reserves, capital reserves, et 5 cetera, because it is a -- it's an uncertain business. I 6 mean, you know, for instance, we have 51 beds. 7 Approximately 20 of them are always occupied by kids from 8 Harris County. If Harris County expands a facility or finds 9 one closer, you know, we lose 40 percent of our revenue. 10 Now, the demand is there, but there's -- it's going to take 11 a while to replace it. So -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is the -- the 13 board -- the corporate board, which is you and the two 14 judges; is that right? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What kind of a balance do 17 y'all want to keep? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: We haven't addressed that 19 yet, because we're just now getting to the point where we 20 have a balance. I mean, you know, the -- the County only 21 took the facility back, what, three years ago? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Three years. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: And the County loaned the 24 facility money for operating purposes, because it was 25 totally broke. See, we're just now -- I think only in the 6 1 last year has the facility paid the County everything back. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: The County loaned them -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: This year they paid the 5 County back in full. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we're just now getting to 7 the point where we have a little extra. So, we haven't sat 8 down with -- with Tommy and Tanna Brown and determined what 9 is an appropriate operating reserve, as well as address the 10 issue of expansion. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do you have any feel 12 at this point for what the expansion might be, ballpark, 13 rough order magnitude? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: The rough order magnitude 15 we've been given is $1.7 million, and that's construction. 16 That's not -- so we're probably talking somewhere in the 17 neighborhood of $2 million, $2 million 2, perhaps, to do the 18 whole thing. Now, the additional revenue we believe would 19 support the bond issue to do that. I mean, the facility is 20 not asking Kerr County to look at Kerr County to provide any 21 tax money to support the increase, but it would take -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that's -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- the balance of that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the means to raise the 25 money, is through a county-wide bond issue? 7 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's -- it's not a 2 county-wide bond issue, and we've got our -- our -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Type of revenue. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- supervisor looking at that 5 as to how you would do it. It would be -- it would be 6 revenue bonds that would be issued by the special use 7 facility as the owner of the property, based on a lease 8 between the special use facility and the Kerr County 9 Juvenile Board, and probably backed up by the County in 10 order to get the best rate. So, you know, I -- after -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Funds from the 12 facility would go to pay off the bond so you don't touch 13 anybody's -- you don't raise it with tax money or -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: There would be no impact upon 16 the tax rate. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just wondering. 18 You said bond -- I mean, who -- does it take a -- a vote, I 19 would presume? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jonathan, I honestly don't 21 know. I don't know the answer to that. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: And, of course, that credit 23 would be rated based on the -- on the financial capacity of 24 the corporation, plus its earning capacity. So -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is the one time a 8 1 year when I get to ask questions, I think, to ask questions 2 about that facility. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One more follow-up 4 question on your question. 1.539370, which is total 5 expenditure, includes debt service on the existing facility. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it does. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Facility's doing what we 8 had hoped it did when we undertook that long legal battle to 9 take it over three years ago. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sounds like it's 12 working. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little bit iffy at first. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anybody have any 15 questions as to this first schedule, the fund balances? 16 Tommy? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead, Bill. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The line right 20 underneath the juvenile facility, Tommy, tell me about that. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That is what I call a 22 clearing fund. Since Kerr County is the most populous 23 county in the 216th and 198th districts -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you, okay. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: -- we have to pay all the 9 1 salaries and benefits for -- for any salary that's related. 2 So, the mechanics of it is that we -- we pay those people 3 out of this fund, and then we bill the other counties in 4 those two districts for -- for their share, and then those 5 revenues go in as revenue. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: And at the end of the year, 8 that's -- it's a wash, so all -- the revenues should equal 9 the expenditures. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: How comfortable are you with 12 that $4 million-plus fund balance out of the General Fund? 13 Is that adequate? Is that -- 14 MR. TOMLINSON: That's fine for me, yeah. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: More than adequate? Or is it 16 just barely adequate, or -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, we need some 18 degree. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I really haven't calculated 20 that. Based on -- on what we had in the General Fund, which 21 is the top line, that -- that is very close to what we had 22 budgeted for the year before. And so, knowing -- knowing 23 that, just one 3 million 1 is so close to the 3 million 2 24 that I think that's -- that's more than adequate. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 10 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, tell me one more 2 time how -- how, on the second sheet, the 2000/2001 3 expenditures, how did you arrive at those estimates? Did 4 you -- 5 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I haven't gotten into 6 that phase yet. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. I thought you 8 were. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Now we'll get to Page 10 2. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: For 2000/2001 budget summary, 13 if you'll notice that, I transferred 930, cash balances in 14 the last column of the first page to the first column in the 15 second page. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay? All right. The -- the 18 tax revenues that I'm showing here in the second column are 19 the amounts that we budgeted for '99/2000, and they're -- I 20 chose to do that because if -- if -- that will show you 21 where we would be if we only raised -- would raise the same 22 amount of tax revenue in the following year, okay? All 23 right. Now, then, for -- for the non-tax revenues, I -- I 24 used the same process I did for '99/2000. If you'll compare 25 the middle column in both pages for the -- for the General 11 1 Fund, you'll see that there's a slight decrease. It's 2 $39,000 for -- for the projected non-tax revenue for 3 2000/2001, as opposed to '99 and 2000. The reason -- the 4 reason for that is -- is that we're going to lose $83,000 in 5 interest because of the -- because of the loss of the -- of 6 the proceeds of the tax note. We had a million and some-odd 7 thousand dollars to invest for this year, so that's $83,000. 8 Then we had a $35,000 grant that went into 9 the General Fund from Peterson Foundation, and then we had 10 transfers into the General Fund of 41,8 that we won't have. 11 So, that holds almost $160,000 in decrease in non-tax 12 revenue, so we'll -- the decreases alone, with what 13 increases that I saw that could happen, I would say that -- 14 that this item is flat, for planning purposes. Now, this is 15 not -- you know, this -- this could get better, but -- but I 16 wouldn't anticipate it getting better. 17 You'll notice in the middle column -- or in 18 the middle part of the page for Road and Bridge, there is 19 some increase in -- in non-tax revenues. The reason for 20 that is -- I think, is that all -- most all of the non-tax 21 revenues in Road and Bridge is directly related to 22 population. Because it -- it's all revenues associated with 23 vehicle registration, taxes, and -- and those kinds of -- of 24 revenues associated with vehicles. The other part of it 25 is -- is fines. The lion's share of fine monies is going to 12 1 Road and Bridge. And, we -- we talked about this in court 2 Monday, about the collection efforts of fines and fees. 3 Most of the fines and fees collections are fines. I mean, 4 percentage-wise, the -- the fines part of -- of the 5 collections is -- is far greater than -- than the fees. So, 6 don't -- you don't see a lot of change in the fee side of -- 7 of a collections. Where you see the big difference is in 8 the fines themselves, because they're so large. So -- so, 9 that's the reason that I see a change or an increase in 10 non-tax revenues for -- for Road and Bridge. The -- the 11 non-tax revenues for -- for all non-tax funds, I would say, 12 are relatively flat. 13 For the fourth column, the expenditures are 14 expenditures that were requested on the first budget 15 worksheets. In other words, all the worksheets that we 16 received back from each department are reflected in that -- 17 in that column. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have there been any 19 submissions since then? I mean, changes to those initial 20 requests? Is that -- 21 MR. TOMLINSON: There is one. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: There's been one from 23 Juvenile Probation. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That's not in -- that change 13 1 is not in this. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's an additional -- about 3 $29,000 for one Juvenile Probation Officer. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Any questions about -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did you do anything with 6 salaries? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that increase is 9 just -- is non-salary? You left them flat? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I left them as -- as 11 submitted. If -- if there was any change, I left it as-is. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Essentially. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Some departments reflect -- 14 some of the departments requested some budgeting from merit 15 increases, but it's within the -- their overall proper 16 budgets. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I want a true picture of what 19 was actually requested first -- the first go-around, so 20 that -- that's in stone now, so we know -- we know what 21 that -- that first request is. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions or comments? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So, if I 24 understand this correctly, then, our total at this point -- 25 the estimated expenditures for the next fiscal year would be 14 1 about the same as our last year? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because of the 4 $2 million, roughly, difference in the -- 5 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- fund? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, explain one 9 thing to me, please, if you will. Under Road and Bridge I'm 10 looking at the balance -- the balances for this year, and 11 under '99/00 expenditures, $800,000 on farm-to-market and 12 that old road trust, and then in the 2000 and 2001 budget, I 13 see a zero there and $800,000 transfer; you spend that. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: The farm-to-market and 15 lateral -- lateral road fund is a tax collection fund. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: All that does is -- is 18 collect tax. What -- what we do is transfer the tax 19 collection out of that fund into the Road and Bridge 20 operating fund. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: So -- and on the budget 23 summary for 2000/2001, I showed it by itself. And in -- in 24 the other one, I included it as a revenue -- no, as an 25 expenditure in Road and Bridge operating, okay? 15 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. Thank you. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, there -- the $800,000 3 is in both worksheets, but they're shown at different 4 places. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just needed to know 6 how it happened. Thank you. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have one other 9 question. On the tax revenues, do we have -- have we gotten 10 any kind of information on what it looks like the valuation 11 might be? I mean, in terms of being up by 1 percent, 12 2 percent, 5 percent overall or anything. Do we have any -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have anything. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. I assumed we -- 15 MS. RECTOR: We had preliminary values that I 16 gave to the Judge. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: That shows -- I don't know 18 what the percentage increase would be. About a 6 percent 19 increase, I think. Something like that, yeah. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's not cranked 21 into your scheme? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you, in effect, 24 took, then, was the actual for '99 and 2000. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Same tax, right. 16 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And put what onto it 2 to get from 3.792 to 3.8? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: The second column in the 5 budget summary -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: -- is -- is what we actually 8 budgeted. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Last year? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Last year. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We collected a little 13 bit less than we -- than we budgeted. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: And we may collect that much, 15 but -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: -- I am conservative. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're glad. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, that's the way 21 it ought to be. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But that still 23 doesn't take into consideration the 6 percent -- that 24 anticipated tax revenue. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 17 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, in the -- the 2 2000/2001 expenditures, under Road and Bridge Special 3 Projects, $476000 which is probably more than we had last 4 year, is that anticipating the High Water Bridge? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what that increase 7 is? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And going back to Larry's 10 comment about -- I mean, that the overall budget stays the 11 same, but there's a big difference, I mean, between the 12 General Fund and the Road and Bridge is where -- I mean, 13 there's a big swing of about $300,000. I mean, General Fund 14 spending -- spending about $300,000 if you take out the 15 building. But Road and Bridge is going the other direction, 16 correct? If you take out the '99/2000 expenditures? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, you have to add the 18 $800,000 to -- to the expenditures, so that would make it 19 $3 million -- almost $3 million in expenditures for 20 2000/2001. And then $2 million 8 is the same number for 21 '99/2000, so we're actually increasing it $200,000. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, under Special 24 Projects this year, as we speak today, he spent considerably 25 less than he might have anticipated to begin those special 18 1 projects, correct? Currently? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No, the -- the Special 3 Projects, he budgeted the 276, if I remember correctly, for 4 '99/2000. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: And that's what he'll 7 spend -- that's what he anticipates spending. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just -- I have one 10 other overall question as we go through the process. Can we 11 estimate what that additional 6 percent evaluation -- let's 12 say -- let's say 3 percent, how much revenue that 13 represents? If it were 3 percent or 4 percent? Something 14 to keep in the back of my mind as we go through this as some 15 what-ifs. If that revenue is there or there are some other 16 things we might be able to fund thereby, or is there -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Whatever. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Applying the same tax rate, 20 it would be approximately $600,000. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. At 6 percent? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: With the appreciation between 23 what Paula's giving me as preliminary numbers. We have to 24 keep in mind it's preliminary, before they -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 19 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- take into consideration 2 protests or new homestead exemptions, those kind of things. 3 Preliminary numbers would indicate there's about an 4 additional $600,000 in potential tax -- in ad valorem tax. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's close enough. 6 But it's something to keep in the back of our minds, I 7 think, that we may have a little bit of capability when we 8 get down toward the end of the process and we know what that 9 real estimate is, that we might be able to do some juggling. 10 That's all. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions 12 specifically of Tommy? It's arcane, but you managed to make 13 it fairly clear, my friend. We appreciate it. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll be right here the rest 15 of the day. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. The next scheduled 17 topic is just a general discussion among the Commissioners 18 and the Court as to what our priorities might be, any 19 thoughts and concerns, other than more demand than we have 20 money for. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the only thought 22 that I have is that I'd kind of like to see us -- I know 23 it's difficult when you don't know the numbers, and salaries 24 are a big part of it, to kind of try to figure out what 25 we're going to do with salaries first. 20 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Did you get this? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's got some numbers in it. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, I mean -- 5 you know, I mean, if we're talking about doing -- as long as 6 I've been on the Court, we've always gone through and kind 7 of worked through the requests that we have ready to go 8 through now, and then finish that, and then what's left 9 over, we look at salaries. And I think we kind of -- in my 10 mind, we owe it to the employees to put the salaries first 11 this year and look at everything else -- then look at 12 everything else, and just a little bit backwards. And just 13 because I think that we're likely to have a pretty big 14 increase in that category, and I -- you know, we've spent a 15 lot of money and a lot of employees' time and our time. I 16 just think we need to make sure -- you know, as much as 17 possible, I think we need to go through, obviously, whatever 18 everyone wants. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can I add something to 20 that thought? Because I -- I agree, and maybe -- when I 21 looked at some of this, I thought of the same thing, and 22 maybe a possible approach might to be look at these overall 23 numbers that we all -- this sheet that Fred gave us, and see 24 if we can commit in principle to that, with those -- and 25 come up with some rough numbers that we know that impact 21 1 would -- would create. And then, as we go through the 2 process, just realize that that's already there; in other 3 words, that we've committed to that in that ballpark. It 4 might not be a precise number, but that we've -- we've 5 already done that. We've -- just make the assumption we've 6 already done that sort of thing, and that now we -- as we go 7 through the budget process, we've got to fit that in there. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Would anyone have any 10 objection to giving these to the elected officials out here? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jannett, do you want to go 13 see if Tammy will make, oh, 8 or 10 copies of that, bring 14 them in? You all can follow along a little better. This 15 Tammy. 16 MS. PIEPER: I could probably make them 17 quicker down there. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We got a new machine 19 last year, works pretty good. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: If you look at -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: At this time last 22 year, I'd say go to yours. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: In trying to structure the 24 discussion today, Jonathan, I really was trying to do 25 exactly what you suggested, and that's why the first three 22 1 priorities that I have on the list are employee compensation 2 issues, and they totaled approximately $300,000. And that 3 is to give every employee a 2 percent cost-of-living 4 increase, to fund the salary adjustments that the 5 preliminary Nash survey indicates are needed, and also to 6 give all employees who are -- do not get a salary adjustment 7 based on the Nash survey a 1 percent -- a one-step increase. 8 So, that's kind of the employee compensation world, the way 9 I -- the way I evaluated it. And Mr. Nash has indicated he 10 still has some tweaking to do with his compensation study, 11 and he wants to come in and talk about it, so that's why 12 it's not fully available. 13 MS. NEMEC: Judge, I have a question. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, Barbara? 15 MS. NEMEC: If you were to do what you 16 suggested, the figures that I gave you yesterday were the 17 one-step on the current step and grade schedule. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 19 MS. NEMEC: So, with leave of everybody, if 20 the Court voted on that, would we move everybody up that one 21 step and then change the step and grade schedule to the 22 2 percent cost-of-living? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: (Nodded.) 24 MS. NEMEC: Because if we do it the other 25 way, it's going to impact -- we're going to end up with more 23 1 money -- needing more money. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: These are -- these are 3 preliminary numbers, and, you know, how we move people and 4 what we do with the 2 percent cost-of-living makes a 5 difference, but it's -- like I say in my memo, these are 6 order of magnitude numbers. They're not down to the penny. 7 It's to give us, as Larry pointed out, an opportunity to 8 start thinking, okay, what can we -- what can we fund? What 9 can we afford with -- with the revenues that are likely to 10 be available? So -- Buster, did you have a question? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Would you 12 please repeat that? 13 MS. NEMEC: What I just said? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 15 MS. NEMEC: Okay. If I get the -- I gave the 16 Judge some figures yesterday. I'm giving everyone who has 17 been here longer than a year effective October 2000 -- I 18 gave him totals on what it would be to move each employee up 19 one step. So, those were based on the step and grade 20 schedule that we're working with now. If we do a 2 percent 21 cost-of-living increase, this schedule is going to change 22 completely. So, do you -- do you do the schedule and then 23 move them up one step? If you do it like that, the -- the 24 figures are going to change, because each step is going to 25 be 2 percent more than what it is in this schedule right 24 1 now. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's going to be more either 3 way, because -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- the 2 percent is based on 6 the current bottom line salary figure. If you give 7 everybody a cost -- 2 percent -- if we move everybody up a 8 step increase and then do a 2 percent cost-of-living, that's 9 going to raise the number. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: To give everybody a 2 percent 12 cost-of-living and then give them a step increase, that's 13 going to change the number. 14 MS. NEMEC: Right. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Because the schedule -- so 16 it's -- like I say, the numbers are not absolute. They're 17 as close as I could get with my ten-finger calculus. 18 MS. NEMEC: Our retirement fund's going down 19 this year, too, from 7.71 to 7.62. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is it? Well, that will have 21 a difference. And the -- the one-step increase -- the 22 figures Barbara gave me were for the whole employee force, 23 and then I went back and backed out on an average basis 24 those employees who would get a salary increase based on the 25 Nash study. So, Number 3 is a step increase for Kerr County 25 1 employees whose salary is not increased or not affected by 2 the Nash recommendation. So, it's as close a number as I 3 can do with what I have now. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this does, in 5 effect, satisfy one of -- I think one of the potential 6 recommendations. Isn't he talking about always giving 7 people -- taking a look at their longevity and giving them 8 step increases based on longevity each year? So, in effect, 9 you're doing that. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's explained more 12 fully here. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Beyond the employees, which 14 is my -- my first priority this year, to get our people back 15 where they are, and, you know, the preliminary Nash study 16 shows that many of the -- the classifications, the range is 17 right. We're paying widget makers about the same as the 18 counties that we survey pay widget makers when you go from 19 the entry level to the top level. Problem is, far too many 20 of our people are packed in the bottom level, so the step 21 increase and the longevity policy that I've outlined for the 22 Court is designed to fix that problem, to get where if you 23 have eight employees, you don't have four of them in Steps 1 24 through 3, and one in Step 5 and one in Step 6 and two in 25 Step 8, but you've got them scattered from 1 through 15, 26 1 which I think will improve the overall salary position and 2 photograph of the County. 3 To move beyond the employee issues, we have 4 to do something with the mainframe. Tommy's come and talked 5 to me about that. It is at capacity now, at capacity to 6 the -- to the extent that the Sheriff's Department cannot 7 take the photographs, the digital photographs that they did 8 in the past and put them into the current memory bank 9 because there wouldn't be any room for anything else. So, 10 we've got to address the storage capacity of the mainframe. 11 Annex renovation, that's a number that just galls me, but 12 that's what Keith Longnecker told me this morning would 13 probably be necessary. He -- we can hash that one out at 14 some other time. Airport T-hangars, we more or less 15 committed to the City that we would fund half of the airport 16 T-hangars in the coming year. I expect that number to go 17 down when Meg -- Megan Caffall actually gets the actual 18 bids, but that's what we're talking about. Commissioner 19 Williams got from Steve Hughes' letter just a ballpark cost 20 for finishing out the Annex, bottom floor of the Annex, 21 which is not part of the renovation contract, at $50 a 22 square foot. Comes to approximately 8,000 square foot, I 23 think. Isn't that roughly what people have requested, 24 Buster? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 27 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: 8,000 square feet. We talked 2 in Court last week, Monday, about resurfacing the courthouse 3 drive, constructing additional parking. Leonard identified 4 that cost at about $15,000. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We also later, Judge, 6 at the break -- didn't we also say it might be possible the 7 Court might want to consider that that could become a 8 special project and fund it out of special funds? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's true. But that's -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's still money. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. Bridge repairs -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I understand. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Leonard's response to the 14 inspection of the bridges indicated about $14,000 it would 15 cost to do what they wanted. Purchasing Agent, $100,000, 16 and elected official compensation increases, I don't have an 17 idea yet as to what that potential would be. Rough -- 18 roughly, when I added up what I call the "wish list" in the 19 various departments, which were needs or desires they 20 identified beyond their budget, $264,196. So, that's kind 21 of the laundry list that I see of -- of potential funding 22 requests. I'm sure other things will come up. Some of 23 these things, we might be able to manipulate funds with 24 grants or other sources, but if you look at that, it's about 25 a million four, roughly. And we have maybe $600,000 in 28 1 additional tax revenue. So, I've done any part, and you 2 guys go to work on it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a minor part of 4 it, but, like, on the airport T-hangars, those are supposed 5 to essentially pay for themselves, as I recall, over some 6 time period. Was it 15 years? Ten years? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Fifteen years, I think 8 was the max, but they really thought probably more like 10 9 years, depending. But -- and our -- and, consequently, our 10 annual contribution, which -- our share that we have been -- 11 would go down over time, as well. So, we end up at the end 12 of the 10-year period, or whatever it is, we're not paying 13 directly into the airport operations. Neither is the City. 14 There will be more T-hangars and enough revenue to cover all 15 of that and make it pay for itself, in essence. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other absence I 17 see is the library. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I called Dane Tune 19 about that, left a message today, and he said the librarian 20 is out of pocket and wouldn't be able to be present for 21 preliminary -- our preliminary discussions. And, the City's 22 workshops haven't yet begun, but he said they're 23 anticipating that the operating budget will remain 24 relatively flat from current year to this year. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The operating budget's 29 1 included in -- in the expenditure numbers that Tommy has 2 worked on. Our requirement as the County is to fund half of 3 the operating budget. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have no contractual 6 requirement to fund any capital improvements. Now, 7 Commissioner Williams is on the Library Board. The Library 8 Board just got 200 -- how much? $228,000? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 228, I think, and 10 change. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: From E.I.C. to do the things 12 that are needed to stabilize the building. I have told the 13 Library Board and the library group directly, and through 14 Commissioner Williams, that I'm not really too het on 15 providing any capital improvement money for the library 16 until they come up with a long-term plan to provide library 17 services, not only to the City of Kerrville, but also to the 18 County. And I don't know where we are on that, but -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we're about -- 20 right where that sentence ended is about where we are. I 21 think there's some base resistance, not from the Library 22 Advisory Board, but -- they think there's potential in it. 23 I think there's some base resistance from the librarian -- 24 the head librarian about the extension of services. He 25 sees -- he doesn't see the relative value of -- of trying to 30 1 extend services east and west, or quid pro quo, that it 2 takes the pressure off of this facility in here by doing so. 3 And also, there are other forces at work, in that they have 4 a fixation on the property in between the existing library 5 and the Schreiner mansion, which is the history -- history 6 component, and they're out -- out trying to drum up funds 7 for that. And, part of my message from the City was that 8 there is now a second verbal commitment -- or a verbal 9 commitment from a second foundation to match the verbal 10 commitment from the first foundation for the purchase of 11 that property. So, you know, that's kind of -- it's all in 12 the flux. Well, like the Judge said, our commitment is to 13 the operating budget, not necessarily to the capital budget, 14 although we have put monies in for elevators, 15 air-conditioners, et cetera. And I read, I think, a comment 16 from the City that raised a question in my mind about the 17 elevator -- the restoration or renovation of the elevator or 18 replacement of elevator, and using those funds in some 19 capacity other than what they were designated for, which 20 means we've got to find out what the hell they did with the 21 80,000 bucks we put in. Did you reach -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd heard through the 23 grapevine, though -- and we started that two years ago, our 24 share of this elevator, and they haven't touched it yet. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 31 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I can't imagine 2 them using that money somewhere else. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, not -- not 4 without our permission, for certain. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have we actually 7 transferred that money to them? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't think so. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we have -- I think 10 it's in a separate fund. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think so. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we paid it. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We might request our 15 board member to ask. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I will -- I'll 17 see if I can get a little more light shed on that topic. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's another topic 19 also. I'd heard through the grapevine -- we have a contract 20 with the City of Kerrville for fire protection out in the 21 county; they run a fire truck. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Certain amount of 24 times a year, it said. I don't remember exactly how that 25 works. Seems to me it was a contract, $100,000, $75,000 32 1 maybe. And it's been sitting there for several years, and 2 they were going to ask that that be increased, but I -- I 3 just -- you know, the fire chief mentioned that to me, and I 4 haven't heard any more. I don't know if y'all had or not, 5 but there's a possibility of that increasing some. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That piece, along 7 with the library, will come after the workshop. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the City -- I 9 don't want to be negative about them, but, you know, I 10 appreciate you guys really kind of keeping an eye on this -- 11 on the budget issues, because historically what they have 12 done is they build their budget and then send us a bill. 13 And, hopefully, we've continued saying, "Wait a minute, this 14 is not the way to spend taxpayers' money." We need -- this 15 should be a partnership-type thing, and work -- the press is 16 not here, are they? 17 MS. PIEPER: No. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It should be a 19 partnership in this thing, and we just need to be firm with 20 them, because they have literally done that on the 21 library -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Airport. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the airport, and 24 all those little issues. They would pass their budget and 25 send us a bill, without any input at all, period, zero, 33 1 zilch. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Following up on what 3 you're saying, I agree. You're right, that's happened in 4 the past, and then in this current budget, I think we need 5 to take a -- a strong look at it, because if the E.I.C. -- 6 well, not if. The E.I.C. is pledged to fund some major 7 maintenance renovating items, and those things darn well 8 better not show up in the operating budget for 19 -- 9 2000/2001. And there's a distinct possibility if you don't 10 look closely, some of them might be there. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be a nice little 12 increase every year, wouldn't it? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with all that. 14 I think that, you know, probably the thing that's most 15 important to me is what the Judge says, that we need to get 16 a long -- or the City needs to make the -- make a long-term 17 plan for the library. I think it's their responsibility, as 18 kind of the lead entity with that. And, if they do that, I 19 mean -- but I'm -- you know, I certainly would like -- it's 20 a great facility, and even if it doesn't expand, you know, I 21 would probably be in favor of, you know, if they start 22 treating us as a true partner. I don't have a problem with, 23 you know, entering into some long-term plans to fix the 24 facility. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've given them a 34 1 couple suggestions that they should mull over in terms of a 2 long-range planning committee. You know, it's not necessary 3 to build facilities east and west. We can serve that 4 population a couple different ways. You can serve it 5 through existing schools, by augmenting the libraries of 6 those schools. You can serve it by bookmobiles and so 7 forth. But, at this point, we're not getting good 8 vibrations on the head library. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there any such 10 thing as a Library Master Plan in existence? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we want 12 them to do, Larry. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And they've never done 14 any of that? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is one, but it's solely 16 with the existing facility. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's focused right 18 there. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How long is it, or 20 what kind of -- it shows all the renovations and the -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, as you know, the 22 library is about 150 percent over capacity today. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The library was based 24 on population 10 years ago. What they have today is based 25 on 10 years ago, right? Today's facility. 35 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is probably 2 something -- maybe I shouldn't even ask the question, but 3 the Schreiner mansion that they're doing all that stuff 4 with, which I guess is coming under the library, but how did 5 that really get put in with the library? I mean, I really 6 don't -- to me, that shouldn't be part of the library fund 7 that we're -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're not. It's a separate 9 entity, which, to me, is also not well thought out. It was 10 given by the Peterson Foundation, I believe, bought by the 11 Peterson Foundation and given to the City for library use. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: To the City for historical 13 library purposes. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And genealogy. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: And genealogy. So, you can't 16 take the children's books from the existing library, for 17 instance, and move them over to that new building. I mean, 18 it's very limited and very restricted in its use, so it 19 really doesn't solve any of the problems at the current 20 library. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But is it -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But the staffing is 23 all part of the library's general budget, so the head of the 24 Genealogy Department is in the library's budget. The head 25 of the history component is in the library's budget, and so 36 1 now it's a library function. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But is it in the 3 operation -- I mean, operationally, will we fund the head 4 genealogist? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By reason of adopting 6 the budget. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's in the operating 8 budget, so the answer is yes. The head genealogist, which 9 we've funded. But, the question is, are we going to be 10 asked to fund the utilities for the new building as well? 11 And I -- I think that may become an issue. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can answer that. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think there's 14 another override, too. That is that the library staff -- I 15 think Fred mentioned, it pays a lot of -- of attention to 16 that building. I mean, it's sort of the -- it's sort of the 17 project du jour. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it is -- it's 19 undergoing some renovation right now. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, and it's sort of 21 a unique, new thing, and so everybody, I understand, pays 22 attention to it, so it diverts a lot of staff attention. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like Buster's 24 statement. We need to -- or those that are keeping a close 25 eye on them should be Mr. Williams and the Judge. Please 37 1 keep -- continue keeping a close eye on them. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I -- these -- 4 out of your 11 thoughts here, I probably had 65 or 5 70 percent of them in my list of priorities. And, of 6 course, the employees and benefits and salaries, et cetera, 7 are always number one. Interesting list. I appreciate you 8 putting this together, running these numbers down. I don't 9 agree with all of it, but that's okay, we can work through 10 all that. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're just numbers and 12 priorities. We'll have to play with them as we work through 13 the process. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good list. Appreciate 15 you going to that much trouble. Can we go home now? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anybody else have 17 anything? I mean of a general nature. Jannett? Paula? 18 Glenn? Y'all have anything you want to throw out? 19 MS. RECTOR: Not at this point. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not at this point. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear what his 22 question was? "Do you have anything you want to throw up?" 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Did you have lunch? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Give us an hour. 25 (Laughter.) 38 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: I have a question. The 2 8,000 square foot lower level, was that the number of square 3 foot? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm pretty sure it 5 was. What did you have in your mind, six? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: I thought it was, like, 3,500 7 at this time, and then possibly later that back part would 8 be separate. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's just a -- a budget mark, 10 and it's basically -- you may not have been aware of the 11 fact that Juvenile Probation has requested to come in, which 12 would be 6,000 feet. So -- 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: 6,000? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, they've got -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? That's the 16 whole building. They only have currently 650 square feet 17 for five people. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Maybe I was wrong, then. 19 Anyway, it's -- it's $50 a square foot, is the number. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: I understand. But what I was 21 wondering is -- my question is that, the way you did the 22 priority list or suggested, you know, that that is a -- is a 23 form that you -- you might be able to use part of -- fund at 24 certain levels of any of these, or -- these numbers are not 25 hard. 39 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All of the above. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're very hard to do, but 4 they're not hard as far as being -- 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Hard numbers is what I meant. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I really thought the 7 number was 8,000 square feet. That's an awful lot of room. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's everything down there, 9 Buster. That would be everything. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's like the County 11 Attorney's office and all of that included. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Everything, yes, sir. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think I'm in error, 14 so I'll just -- once you focus on the $50 a square foot, and 15 we'll figure that out as we move through the process. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a pretty fair 17 number, isn't it? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: $50? Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a pretty fair 20 number. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be, you know, 22 comparable space to what is throughout the rest of the 23 courthouse. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's exclusive of 25 furnishings and communications and so forth. 40 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Walls, halls, restrooms, 2 partitions. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Again, if the 4 Probation Department comes over here -- which they are a 5 quasi-state agency, in my opinion -- is State of Texas going 6 to pick up and buy their couches and tables and chairs? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: They may very well. It 8 would -- certainly, one thing, it would save us the $6,000 a 9 year in rent we currently pay for their space. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, says Tommy. I 11 didn't think so, either. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think T.J.P.C. will 13 pay for -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, we pay the rent. I 15 understood that. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm talking about for -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: For couches and stuff? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: For furniture, anything like 19 that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you joking? They 21 don't even buy D.P.S. officers their own guns. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: They must have something over 23 there already to sit on. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: That's all County -- County 25 property. 41 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I guess the other 2 question is -- it's not on your list, is the communications 3 project. Is it -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's because that's in the 5 Sheriff's budget. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the Sheriff's budget, 7 okay. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Like you won't find 9 redistricting in here, either. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's in somebody's budget. 12 MS. RECTOR: It's not in mine. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Anything else 14 people want to talk about in general? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. And I won't 16 mention the area right now, but our -- I think that there is 17 at least one other subject that's probably on the wish list 18 now that ought to be on this list, on the big list, that 19 are -- but we can discuss that later so. I -- I'm just 20 pointing out that this will all be somewhat mobile, I hope, 21 and we can add, subtract. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To start. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're going to do a lot of 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Divide and conquer, 42 1 okay. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: If there aren't any other 3 general questions, general discussion, I would suggest that 4 we -- let's take a 10-minute break, come back at 20 till 5 3:00. We'll start with the -- what was the schedule? At 6 3 o'clock I'll call the Sheriff and see if he can be here at 7 3:30, and we can move them up. 8 (Recess taken from 2:30 p.m. to 2:40 p.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. It's 2:45 on Tuesday 11 afternoon, July 11th. We'll reconvene the budget workshop. 12 Topics for discussion, mas or menos, at this time are 13 Commissioners Court, volunteer fire departments, County 14 Judge, County Court, and Nondepartmental, so we'll just go 15 down them in order. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioners Court, which is 17 tab number 2 in your book. What did you guys put in for? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everything. We got 19 nothing. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's one issue that 21 I notice on 430, on Commissioners Court Notices. And I 22 notice we've bumped up the -- we've bumped up the budget 23 request a little bit, but I'm just -- I just think we need 24 to make sure we've got enough there, because in the next 25 year, with the 911 road renamings and that kind of thing, 43 1 we're going to have -- we're going to -- just like we did 2 this year, we're going to have more notices, public notices 3 required. And the $2,500 may be enough. We've spent this 4 year -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We already ran out 6 this year. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, we ran out this 8 year, and I just wanted to make sure that we've thought 9 through that $2,500 is enough. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this line is a 11 catch-all for the county-wide system. I mean, like Road and 12 Bridge or anybody else has to run an ad, it all comes out of 13 this. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All notices from all 15 departments come through this. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there going to be 18 additional notices required under redistricting? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure there is. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hearings and meetings and 21 all that type. I guess that would come out -- we would take 22 that out of redistricting, though if it was a notice? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Those would probably be just 24 regular called meetings, as opposed to special notice. We 25 may have to have a public hearing on the redistricting plan, 44 1 but we're talking about one at the most. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can probably save 3 some money there by -- on the 911 thing, for example, we're 4 going to try to aggregate 911, saying that they will work 5 with Road and Bridge trying to aggregate as many of those 6 into one public hearing as we can. You'll notice that there 7 was one just done. It will be in the paper today again, I 8 think. That covers three or four precincts, all four 9 precincts maybe. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was going to ask you 11 about that specifically. In those notices, do they actually 12 list the road name? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I thought so. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Unless it's as it is 16 today, and what the proposed new name is. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which runs the expense 18 up. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. And -- but we 20 had one that's about that size. Instead of having three 21 separate ones, whatever it was. I think it was three 22 precincts covered. But, anyway, maybe the $2,500 is enough. 23 I just wanted to make sure we -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the postage, I see 25 we're up on postage. Doubled it. 45 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I knew we were -- that 3 should be enough. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The item we talked 5 about yesterday -- I don't know if the Court wants to put it 6 in the funding of the equipment we referenced yesterday. 7 Directly goes into Capital Outlay, 570 under Commissioners 8 Court, or whether you find another spot for it, but that's 9 where we funded some computers this past year. And, I see 10 that some -- I guess the Judge put zero in now. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, that item is more 12 of a wish list thing. I mean, if we have enough money, we 13 can possibly look at it. I don't see that that projector 14 and the -- you know, it's a luxury thing, compared to other 15 items. One thing that I just thought of today, the computer 16 that's out there, in my opinion, should go to someone's 17 office, because -- not in mine, someone other than me -- 18 because I don't think anyone's using it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Needs to go 20 someplace. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, might as 22 well use it. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think one thing we might 24 consider doing is any -- any department that has a request 25 in for a computer will take that one. 46 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We might allow them to take 2 this one and then perhaps use -- set our funds -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Upgrade it? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: For -- with that other one, 5 maybe swap out. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there is a -- you 7 know, I wouldn't object to that, because it's a general -- a 8 laptop can float around. Like, when I'm working on things, 9 I'm working on, like, Subdivision Rules, and rather than 10 have to e-mail the files back and forth, load it and I can 11 work on that, rather than try to -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it would be a 13 good thing to have, and I think the display capability, not 14 just for the courtroom, but primarily for the courtroom, 15 plus the kinds of things that -- that Bill was talking about 16 yesterday I think would be good, because that's the 17 technology. I mean, and that -- and that can make it where 18 people can see it right over there, so Commissioner Baldwin 19 would have to turn around. I know he's saying put it over 20 here. Then I can turn around. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was one of my 22 questions. Does that type of machine require a special type 23 of screen? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just any kind of old 47 1 screen? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The same kind of 3 system that we had out at the Ag Barn for the -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That kind of system. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't feel it's a 7 luxury item. I also -- I'd like to have a computer in my 8 office, but I don't want that big thing out there. I want 9 something that I can work on. And if -- I can work 10 wherever, but this is the type of machine you need to drive 11 that projector and do the Power Point. I don't view it as a 12 luxury item. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But, anyway -- so -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That computer works okay 15 out there, doesn't it? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it can go 18 someplace else. Yeah, could be put into service, it really 19 can. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I just want -- I 21 mean, we can get anything out where we're going, but even 22 if -- I mean, a laptop, even if we had one, is not going to 23 be in any one Commissioner's office all the time, so I don't 24 see how that's going to satisfy -- that's not the intent, in 25 my mind, is not for that to be a Commissioner's computer. 48 1 It's a general computer to be used in the county for that 2 projection service, and if it's not in use, it will be used 3 by anyone. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, that's the 6 beauty of the laptop. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- but in prior 8 years, we had talked about getting computers in our offices. 9 I never wanted it, 'cause I -- I spend more time in my 10 office at my house, where I have a computer there, and then 11 Larry does the same. And Buster finagled one out of a 12 different route, so now the only one that needs a computer 13 is Commissioner Williams. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like to have one. He 15 spends a lot of time here, too. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a good one out 17 here in the hallway. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He doesn't like that one. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Another thing about 20 the laptops, though -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I don't care. 22 I could use that one -- excuse me, Buster. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I could, if I had a 25 piece of furniture upon which to put that it was proper. 49 1 And if we had a laptop that was a Power Point projector that 2 became the property of the Court in general, that's fine and 3 dandy. I don't have a problem with that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The laptop that I had 5 before, the battery in that thing went dead and I went to 6 buy one, and the battery was a -- $140 for a battery, and 7 you had to order it out of California. And when I saw the 8 $140, I said, "Forget it, I'll just go without a computer." 9 That was just so -- so you have to -- I mean, I don't know 10 how long these batteries last. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you get a 12 recharging unit with it? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Did you ever recharge 14 it? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. I don't know how 16 to re -- I don't know whether you can recharge these things 17 or not. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Anyway -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Add in some extra 20 dollars nor a new battery. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we ought to 22 hold on to this if we can. I think it is a very legitimate 23 thing to have for the taxpayers of the county. I mean, no 24 matter how it gets used internally, I really think that 25 having the ability to take a -- something on the road and 50 1 show it, something that -- and, by the way, this could be 2 used not only by the Commissioners Court. It could be used 3 by other offices in the courthouse if it were needed for the 4 projection capability, 'cause it's very portable. I think 5 we ought to hold onto that, and maybe this is a good time to 6 bring up another computer-related thing that's not in the -- 7 or it's not in the request as it stands now; it's on the 8 wish list. And it was a -- it was a request I put in for a 9 person to ride herd on all of these kinds of requirements, 10 as well as the great number of PCs and the growing number of 11 PCs that we have, and the interface with the mainframe 12 computer, particularly now that the Sheriff's Department is 13 online for the mainframe. They have PC workstations -- how 14 many out there? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Thirty-four, I believe. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, 30-some-odd. If 17 we're going to get into the internet business, we are going 18 to need a -- somebody to be the webmaster for the web site 19 that can direct that operation, getting on the web site, 20 what we really need. I've talked at some length with -- 21 with -- with Tommy, and I know from my own experience right 22 now, our basic computer expertise is in the Auditor and one 23 Commissioner, and that's not good organizational strategy 24 or -- and it is eating Tommy alive, you know, on time. He 25 can anecdotically tell you a number of things. He gets 51 1 phone calls on the weekends now, even on the golf course, 2 to -- 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's going too far. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's too far. You 5 know, that's the end of it. But, anyway -- no, seriously, 6 it is a continuing problem. We have -- we have PC 7 breakdowns, or the necessity for computer maintenance, 8 PC maintenance, on a daily basis. I think this is a -- it's 9 going to get bigger. If we're going to commit at all to the 10 digital age and -- and getting our information online, we're 11 going to have to have a person to take care of that, and 12 probably ought to be a nondepartmental. Tommy was going to 13 discuss that, but I put in the request for the person in 14 through the Commissioners Court. And where this person is 15 probably makes no difference. They could work for the 16 Commissioners Court, could work for Maintenance and 17 Facilities, could -- where they are on the work chart, this 18 one person could be almost anywhere. I'll tell you, 19 particularly if we go online with the web site, that's going 20 to be a full-time job. Now, I know that there's been an 21 initiative to take someone who is on half time right now in 22 the Collections Department and put that person in their 23 other half time onto this level, and I am dead-set against 24 that. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Amen. 52 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: On two counts. And 2 one count is -- is that that's not enough time. That person 3 is going to have to be available -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Don't bring up the other 5 count; that's a personnel issue. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, the other count 7 is not properly discussed. But I just think now is the time 8 we need to make a -- in essence, a policy strategy decision. 9 If we're going to go forward and try to get electronic 10 communications between both internally and outside to the 11 world, and have access to the internet and so forth, then 12 we're going to have to make this kind of commitment. We got 13 to have a person. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you think that it 15 needs to be a full-time employee? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That does nothing but 18 that? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Nothing but that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one more time, 21 Larry, just kind of roughly, given the scope of this work, 22 in addition to web site, webmaster, what if anything are the 23 overall problems that we would encounter? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Webmaster -- the 25 webmaster builds the web pages. 53 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's got to be someone 3 that has that kind of expertise throughout this. It's got 4 to be -- that person has to be what I call a "geek." A good 5 computer geek can change out a hard drive in 10 minutes, 6 reconfigure software on a hard drive to repartition, or 7 whatever has to be done to the hard drive, all those sort of 8 things, routine. When there is a problem with a PC, that 9 person troubleshoots the problem, figures out whether it can 10 be repaired or should it be replaced, makes the purchase. 11 If -- through a purchasing agent or someone else, or 12 directly themselves, but makes the purchase, gets the 13 machine back up and running. And also, very importantly, 14 something we don't have now, is keeps track of the 15 configuration of every machine we have, so he knows what 16 software we have. When software upgrades come out to an 17 operating system or something like that, knows that we can 18 buy a 25- or a 50-license upgrade, goes around and installs 19 that upgrade on every machine that we own so that every 20 machine is in the same configuration. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: What was your -- I've 22 forgotten, Larry. What was your estimated cost? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think I -- and this 24 would be -- this would include benefits and FICAs and all of 25 that. I think it was $30,000. 54 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is some of that 2 recoverable by reason of computer service agreements we now 3 have in place, by not having to have it in place? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Absolutely -- well, I 5 mean, we are paying for services now. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We have -- this is 8 undisciplined enough at this point that we still have people 9 going -- in some of our departments, going outside of the 10 maintenance agreement that we have and doing it on their 11 own, which probably doesn't cost a whole lot more, but -- 12 and -- but we don't know what they did to the machine, 13 number one. Number two is they probably blew the warranty 14 that -- those things are all still under warranty until 15 October, November, December time frame, and we probably had 16 machines worked on by other people, so -- but we don't know. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you have an estimate as to 18 what we've paid computer specialists just for repair or 19 reconfiguration services? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do you have any idea? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: No. It's -- it's -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not much, in dollars. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: It's paid for in -- by 24 department, so I would -- I'd have to look at every 25 department. 55 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a -- if you just -- 2 that's obviously an offset, the cost of a permanent computer 3 person. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just a -- people 5 know I don't like to hire more staff, but this is one I 6 would totally support. I mean, I really think that it's 7 it's kind of like -- I mean, we have a -- I'd hate to figure 8 how much money is invested in computer hardware and software 9 in this county right now, and we have no one coordinating 10 that effort, basically, and I think that is a mistake. It's 11 a mistake, and I think the reason Larry outlined is a -- you 12 know, a reasonable thing to do this. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The way I would see 14 doing this, by the way, is that we would advertise this 15 position. If we were -- we would advertise this position, 16 take applications, resumes, do interviews. This person's 17 got to be somebody who has got good people skills and is 18 probably -- probably 25 years old and he has a computer 19 science degree or something. And they're out there. I 20 mean, we can go get them. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: $30,000. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would we slot 23 this individual? Under what department? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, that's why I'm 25 saying that's open. I don't think it makes a whole lot of 56 1 difference right now, because we could have that person 2 on -- on the organizational chart in the -- under 3 Commissioners Court. We could put it under Maintenance. We 4 could -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you look at 6 Line 106 in the Commissioners Court, we had one of those 7 people here at one time, and she left and became an auditor, 8 I think, somewhere in some county. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we need to change 11 that 106 from Assistant Administrator to Computer Geek, 12 right? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Computer Geek/ 14 Purchasing Agent. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. No, can't do that. 16 Can't do that. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Nice try. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It wasn't a very good 19 try, just popped in my head there. Looks kind of -- sounds 20 good, really. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There is one -- and, 22 Tommy, you may want to add something to what I've said. You 23 and I have discussed this before, and -- but I really think 24 it's something whose time has come if we're going to do what 25 we've indicated we want to do and what I think we should do. 57 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, under Nondepartmental, 2 I hadn't -- I had plans to ask, as a wish list, not just for 3 county-wide, is to have -- to have some help in that regard. 4 Since -- since the Sheriff's -- Sheriff's Office is on the 5 system, I mean, I'm on call seven days a week, 24 hours a 6 day. And what he said about the golf course, I was on 7 vacation for -- for a four-day weekend. I got a call from 8 the Sheriff's Office during the night while I was out of 9 town. I had -- I had to have the Sheriff, himself, go by my 10 house, and I had -- I had to call my wife in the meantime. 11 He goes by my house, picks up keys, and then I call him back 12 and we walk through what he's supposed to do. So -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need an 14 individual, really, to protect the capital investment. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not -- you know, I'm not 16 going to -- I'm going to be 60 next month. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You what? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm going to be 60 in a week. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Congratulations. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not going to be around 21 very -- and so, you know, someone -- you know, I've been, 22 you know, instrumental in -- in being a liaison person 23 between -- between the County and our software provider, and 24 I -- you know, I still plan to do that, or would like to 25 have a part in that. But if I just -- I just -- you know, 58 1 my hours are -- are just limited, and I just don't feel like 2 that -- that I have the time, nor the desire, to -- to deal 3 with as many PCs as we have. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're saying 5 there's a difference between a geek and a geezer? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. That's right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're on a roll 8 today. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think probably the 11 appropriate place to put it -- I'm not real happy -- is 12 under the Commissioners Court. But -- but recognizing that 13 it's very difficult for to us have employees, because, you 14 know, just the way we're set up. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it -- it could be 16 comparable to the Animal Control officer. He's technically 17 under Commissioners Court. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: We hire him, fire him, set up 20 his operation. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leave him alone, let 22 him do his job. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Exactly. So, that's -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In this case, that is 25 true. 59 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hire the right geek. 2 That's what you want to do, is you want somebody that 3 works -- in fact, you hire the right person, you'll know 4 what the problem is. I mean, they can walk through the 5 door, and if they're -- 'cause we'd want one with work 6 experience, and they already know what ethernet cards and -- 7 and interface boxes and patch panels and all that, they 8 already know all of that, so -- 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Will they string cable, too? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I doubt it. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: This person? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I doubt it, probably, 13 but they would certainly supervise. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, we need one more of 15 those. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not supervise the 17 cable pulling, but they would lay out where every terminal 18 needs to be, they would -- you know, is this too long a run? 19 Is this too short a run? Is it -- is it -- you know, or 20 whatever. And what kind of cabling it has to be, that 21 person would take care of all of that, 'cause that's part of 22 it; that is part of the job. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question would be, I 24 would -- and I hate to question Larry on something on 25 computers, but $30,000 is an amount that seems low to me 60 1 for -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Low? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for a computer person. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: For somebody with a degree, 5 it would be low. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I put in 35 on my 7 line, just because I thought it was low also. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, 32-fifty. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got to go back 10 to -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The problem is -- and, 12 again, that's the thing. It would be -- we'd have to go out 13 there and dig and find the right -- the right kind of 14 person, 'cause it has to be someone that works without a lot 15 of supervision. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be a 17 tremendous service to every elected official and department 18 head, because, I mean, when there's a problem, rather than 19 just go -- like with the J.P.'s trying to deal with the 20 software headaches they have, this one person could handle 21 that whole thing and probably resolve it. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And Barbara's printer 23 problem. Let them go do -- Barbara's got a printer problem 24 that I know Tommy's taken a swing at and I've taken a swing 25 at, and it really needs a geek to go figure it out, or throw 61 1 that printer away and buy another one. So -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the 570, Larry, is 3 that enough to do what we're talking about doing? If we 4 kept that same number in place? You talked about the 5 projector and the laptop, desk. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I need a desk. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think -- see, we've 9 got -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the one that's 11 out there in the hall; I'll take that one. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We've got some Capital 13 Outlay money left in Commissioners Court for this year. 14 Probably all we could do is buy a table now. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah, probably 16 could. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Probably could, and 18 wouldn't have to put that in this budget. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is sufficient 20 to get the -- to do the job, get the right projector and so 21 forth for the Court? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The $6,500? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just asking. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: I thought $3,500 was what you 25 had -- 62 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That didn't include 2 the projector. That was the computer. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's actually probably 4 more like $5,500. It would be $5,500 to get both -- and I 5 think we could go ahead and show that with an asterisk. If 6 we have to start, I'd rather put it in now and then cut it 7 if we have to. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we could find a 9 way to fund it this year -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We may end up at the 11 end of the year where we could at least buy the computer. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the number we 13 fund? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fifty-five. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Fifty-five. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: The other thing is, you know, 17 the way I did the budget, I'm trying to hold it to last 18 year's numbers as everyone else was, so -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I have one 20 more. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Redistricting is $35,000. 22 We're going to have to go up to -- our contract is $20,000. 23 I propose that we put another $2,500 in there to cover 24 notices, copies of any, you know, plans and stuff. I'm 25 going to recommend to the Court that we set up a citizen's 63 1 advisory committee on redistricting, and that there may be 2 some expenses associated with that. I'm thinking about 3 postage or copying things, so -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, what would that 5 final number -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: My suggestion is we bump 7 redistricting, which is 475, up to 22-five, so $2,500 over 8 our contract with Bob Bass. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Which line are you talking 10 about? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item 475 under Commissioners 12 Court. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Bring that to $7,500? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, bring it up to $22,500. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: All right. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that will include 17 all of -- notices and everything? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Hopefully, notices and 19 photocopies and anything else. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we can get it up to 21 that, that's a bargain. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You bet. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Question. What -- does that 24 have any relationship to 486, Professional Services? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one? 64 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. No, we budgeted for that 2 separately. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: What -- what is -- I know 4 that part of the -- Nash's fee is in that for this year, in 5 this $25,000. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. Right, but that was a 7 one-time shot as well. We don't have any ongoing expense to 8 him next year. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: So why is it the same? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: $25,000 -- I mean, that just 11 seems to be historically what the Court has budgeted for 12 professional services, in the event that we had to use an 13 outside attorney or things like the Nash -- now, if we think 14 our outside attorney expenses are going to come down, we can 15 take a whack at that. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the reason I brought it 17 up, I just I knew the $18,000 was in this 25, or I thought 18 it was. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, that's where we took it 20 from. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: And so I was wondering if -- 22 if there were some other reason to have it 25. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the reason is -- 24 I mean, and I think last year we had it at this level. We 25 were still uncertain on the County Attorney handling our 65 1 civil work, and I think that's still a little bit uncertain 2 at the present time. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We might be able to 4 take it down to 20. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if we're going to 6 be able to continue to use the County Attorney's office for 7 our outside, you know, work, I think that number can come 8 down substantially. If we're not, then I think, you know, 9 the other opportunity -- the way to look at it is his budget 10 should come down, because that was part of our deal, that he 11 handles that work, and we were going to cut this. If he's 12 not going to do that work, he has to lose, possibly, one of 13 his attorneys or look at that. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it's a legal fee 16 that we have as a Court. Whether it's budgeted through his 17 office or through ours doesn't make that much difference. 18 We still have to pay the dollars. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have -- I don't have any 20 hesitation in agreeing to a reduction of that Professional 21 Services line item to $15,000 or $10,000, with the 22 understanding that if we get in a real major crack and have 23 to go to an outside law firm that's not covered by 24 insurance -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 66 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- it's going through the 2 roof, but it would break through that $25,000 in a New York 3 minute, as well. I mean, it's not going to cover us for 4 that. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: And if we can get the County 7 Attorney to start doing all of the civil work, like the 8 rights-of-way, deeds, things like that, then that number 9 should come down very substantially. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you get into a 11 federal suit, you have to go to San Antonio to get to that. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, I don't have any 13 hesitation in reducing that to -- why don't we try $15,000 14 for the first year, and see what that comes to. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, we had all of 16 the -- seemed like to me the engineering costs on the 17 testing of the jail, soils and concretes and all that. 18 That's wasn't that Professional Services also? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I believe it was. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's considered 21 professional services. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That -- but the jail 23 lawsuit was the reason that number got up to 25 and stayed 24 there, or actually it was higher for a while. It was 25 probably $50,000 for a year or so, I guess. 67 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. Question, what did 2 you do to 570, the Capital Outlay? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Went to $5,500. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For projector and laptop 5 computer. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Except I have one 7 additional question. Would the replacement of these chairs 8 come under that or Mr. Holekamp's budget? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that should kind of 10 come out of Mr. Holekamp's hide, myself. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: I did not -- is it too late to 12 put it in my request that comes up Friday? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: You can bring an amendment 14 in. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Because I know y'all do 16 need chairs. I brought it -- but I did not know if that was 17 part of the maintenance, chairs in the courtroom, or -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: We -- don't put this down. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Let me ask, is it the 21 consensus of the Court that some better chairs would be in 22 order? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The ones that we got 24 would be -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might see if they can 68 1 be fixed first. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: They can't be. Those were 3 purchased and parts are not available. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not a good deal. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: I tried that. We've worked on 6 those two over there twice, I think, now, and they're 7 nonrepairable. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take that up in Glenn's 9 budget. Anything else under Commissioners Court? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's turn to 12 Nondepartmental, which is also under Tab 2. Those are -- 13 does anyone have any questions or comments regarding 14 Nondepartmental? One -- one issue that is a budgetary 15 issue, but it also is a service issue, in case y'all haven't 16 noticed, the Court's administrative assistant has resigned 17 her passport duties effective yesterday, so we have a line 18 item 107 for Passport, which I think is -- but that's -- is 19 that based on what she collects, or is that just a fee we 20 pay her? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That's just a fee the Court 22 established. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, you know, that item will 24 go to zero. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 107? 69 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless someone else -- 3 I mean, and I'm not pointing towards you, but you're the 4 only one in here, so -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He is pointing to 6 you. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- it would be nice if 8 someone else was willing to take over that service, 'cause 9 that really is a service to this community, big time. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a service, but it is a 11 pain. 12 MS. PIEPER: It's a headache. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I see 14 it clearly. I wouldn't put up with that stuff in there five 15 minutes, and Thea doesn't very well. So, zero out and Kerr 16 County citizens need to go to Fredericksburg. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Or San Antonio. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or Houston. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is 106? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Does -- 308 is also 21 related to that. That gets zeroed too, doesn't it? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct, 308 and 107 are 23 zeroed. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would it take for 25 you to take that over? I really think -- I mean -- 70 1 MS. PIEPER: More money than you were paying 2 Thea to do it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that settled 4 that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that, of some of 6 the things that we fund, I put this as a fairly high 7 priority. I mean, it is a -- by the volume of work, and we 8 all see what she has to go through, that it is a service to 9 the community. And, they're -- I don't know how many a day 10 she does, but it's got to be -- you know, a number. And, 11 the -- to me, the most -- the best fit would be Jannett's 12 office. I mean, it's -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of a 14 recordkeeping -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: The problem, though, is that 16 it is also a time-consuming exercise. 17 MS. PIEPER: It is. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think that Jannett 19 has -- from what I understand from my discussions with her, 20 she indicated that she doesn't have an employee -- and it 21 has to be pretty much an employee -- who can take 30 to 22 40 percent of their weekly work -- work time to devote to 23 this -- 24 MS. PIEPER: True. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- function. And it's also a 71 1 difficult situation, because I'm not sure what kind of bond 2 is required or even possible. I don't think it would fall 3 under your general bond. I mean, I think it's -- 4 MS. PIEPER: I've got three different types 5 of bonds, so surely it would fall under one of them, but I 6 don't know for sure. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know either, so -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Computer geek-slash- 9 Purchasing Agent-slash -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Passport expert. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Passport. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What about the other 13 half of -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's something I think we 15 need to think about. I mean, you know, it's -- it's a 16 service that I'd hate to have the citizens of the county not 17 be able to get, 'cause it's used heavily. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's a -- having just 20 the forms, if nothing else, the forms available would be 21 helpful. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could we handle it 23 out of J.P. 1's office? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good point. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Could be, if -- if J.P. 72 1 Elliott and Kari decided that's something they wanted to -- 2 well, yeah. I don't -- I'm not very conversant with the 3 legalities of it. My understanding is that, by statute, 4 it's supposed to be done out of the District or the County 5 Clerk's office, and we had to come up with a special 6 arrangement for Thea to be able to do it. That's what Thea 7 tells me. 8 MS. PIEPER: It used to be in the Clerk's 9 office. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Used to be. It was in the 11 County Clerk's office before it came down to the -- so I'm 12 not sure of the mechanism by which we could put it in 13 J.P. 1's. I think that's a good location for it. I'm sure 14 Kari would appreciate the extra money, but someone -- we'd 15 have to look into it, see whether it's possible or not. I 16 just don't know. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good idea, 18 though. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll look at that. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, do you -- do we 21 look into the legalities first, or do you want me to 22 approach J.P. 1 first? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd approach J.P. 1 24 first. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk to him. I'll be 73 1 happy to do that. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell me what 106 is. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what we pay Tommy. 4 It's not enough for taking care of the mainframe. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: He gets calls on his vacation 7 to come and deal with the problems. The -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that get rolled 9 into the computer geek? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, that's a different 11 deal. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because that's a user 14 interface. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it's for data 17 that's really got to be protected there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay, I follow. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 20 comments on Nondepartmental? We have a market there for 21 Purchasing Agent, which -- that's on the wish list. See 22 where we go with that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Autopsies and 24 Inquests, Tommy, are we on -- are we on track with that 25 line? Seemed like there was a -- you know, there was a lot 74 1 of talk out in the community, there was just so many 2 autopsies ordered by J.P.'s. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I think we are. I think 4 we're okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You -- the answer to your 6 question is yes, but, you know, they have good reasons, 7 like -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know if 9 they have good reason or not. I think they're scared. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have scared reasons. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 563, Tommy. In light 12 of -- in light of large amounts on the -- on the list to be 13 funded for, you have mainframe or additional mainframe. Is 14 this number a valid number? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it probably could be 16 reduced, but if we buy -- if we purchase a new mainframe, we 17 can purchase a four-year extended warranty on that system up 18 front, thereby eliminating the annual maintenance for 19 that -- for that four years. We get a one-year warranty, 20 so -- at purchase, you can buy an extended warranty for four 21 years, so it could go down, yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. 24 I want to go back to Commissioners Court just a minute. 25 What about -- 75 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you have a number, Tommy, 2 you want to think about that? We've got $15,000 in here. 3 Are you -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll have to go through -- 5 through -- I think that -- I know there's a maintenance for 6 our system printer. That's a part of this. I think it's, 7 like, $1,800 a year. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: You could just give that some 9 thought and walk through -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll just have to think about 11 that. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine. I'm sorry, 13 Buster. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all right. 15 What did we do on Contingency funds in Commissioners Court? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Went up to 25. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't have a contingency 18 in Commissioners Court; we moved it to Nondepartmental last 19 year. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see it right here. 21 That's what triggered my thought. So, it's 25 grand? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's enough? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think -- question 25 on -- question on that. Could we perhaps base our 76 1 contingency on some objective number? In other words, a 2 certain percentage of the total budget, or certain 3 percentage of certain elements of the budget? Because, I 4 mean, that's the way I've seen it usually done, is that 5 contingency, you have a, you know, 5 percent contingency or 6 7 percent contingency or 2 percent or whatever it is. And 7 if we did that, then we could sort of keep track of how well 8 we are were doing, because if we exceed -- I don't know what 9 $25,000 -- what percentage of our budget is it? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Minuscule. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Minuscule. And 12 probably it ought to be a little bigger. If -- because you 13 can't run a -- a $12 million budget and not have some things 14 happen that you're going to have to move around. And I 15 don't know whether I'm making that point clear or not, but 16 it seems to me we ought to have some kind of objective 17 target that says we're hoping we never do more than 2 18 percent of the budget, or we never have to reprogram more 19 than 2 percent of the budget, but we're going to allow for 20 that. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: The counter to that is that 22 we're really coming pretty close to that $25,000 number. I 23 mean, this year we got hit pretty hard because we took some 24 jail maintenance out of it that was really unexpected. I 25 think that's kind of an aberration, but, you know, it's kind 77 1 of like, well, if you put a big contingency in there, how 2 hard are you going to be able to hold to departmental 3 budgets? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the thing. If 5 you put it in there, you're going to come close to it. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, to get 7 close, isn't 1 percent of our general -- what's the fund 8 balance? So, it's not the expenditure; wrong number. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Expenditure. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Expenditures would be -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One percent. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One percent of our fund 13 balance would be $30,000. That would be real close, but 14 that's not a good number to go on; makes no sense. Come off 15 that number. It would have to be off an expenditure item, I 16 would think, which will be -- to get close at 25, would be 17 about a third of a percent. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, if you went to, 19 say, our -- roughly, our expenditure's going to be about 15. 20 What would -- $30,000 about? Would that be 2 percent? And 21 a 2 percent contingency is not a lot. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there another -- isn't 23 it .2 percent? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that's .2. 78 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, .2 percent. Not 2 very much. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got the question 4 of the day. I noticed Tommy has a goofy little auditor-type 5 smile on his face. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I was -- I was going to 7 hesitate to make this comment. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: But the Gillespie County 10 Commissioners have a unique way of establishing a 11 contingency, and they do it because they don't want to 12 declare an emergency, but they -- they make all of their 13 surplus contingency. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. They budget a 16 contingency for 100 percent of their surplus. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My god. Do they spend 18 it? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I guess they do if they need 20 to, but that's true. That's what they do. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, this -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Put whatever number we want 23 to. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we raise it to 25 .2 percent, that's not that's not much wiggle room. 79 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's really -- but 2 when you look at that number, I was just looking at the 3 General Fund, really, because that's what we pay out of it. 4 Road and Bridge rarely comes out of Contingency, and 5 certainly all these other items -- I mean, it's really more 6 out of that -- I mean it's still a very low number. It's -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't have any 8 problem leaving it right where it is. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, me too. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, my view on that is 11 that -- that it makes you budget better if you don't -- if 12 you don't have a large contingency. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're probably 14 right. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: You're probably -- there's an 16 auditor's axiom that requirements grow to meet any 17 contingency you program. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: The next budget that's 21 scheduled for discussion is volunteer fire departments, 22 which is the second budget under Tab 21. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't finished 24 this tab. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have -- we're not doing 80 1 them strictly by tabs. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, 21. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couldn't figure out why 4 we don't do it. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ask Thea. If these are the 6 same numbers we did last year, as everyone recalls, we gave 7 each of the volunteer fire departments a $1,000 increase 8 last year. I don't see where we have the ability to do 9 anything like that again this year. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we've gotten them 12 to a reasonable level over the past three or four years. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly looking 14 at an increase from the City of Kerrville. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In fact, I talked to 16 all of mine -- the fire departments, and they were all very 17 satisfied; said if we -- if we could fund them at the same 18 level, that it would meet their requirements. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How did Hunt -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Same here. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- get such a big 22 increase last year? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did you say? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How did Hunt get such a 25 large increase? 81 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They always do. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, they weren't. From 3 $4,000 -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, that's actual to budget. 5 All it means is that in '99 they didn't, perhaps, draw down 6 all the budget. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, that's the draw 9 down. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We still have both 11 fire departments out there? You had a Hunt West at one 12 time. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, there was a -- 14 they positioned a truck at Mo Ranch or something. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, out near there. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But that's Hunt Fire 17 Department. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. And we funded 19 that separately years ago. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's all same thing 21 now. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, under 603, am 23 I reading this correctly, that with a $9,500 County expen -- 24 line item for Center Point Volunteer Fire Department, 25 they're only drawing down 1,850 bucks? 82 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comfort hasn't taken any 3 of that yet. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: This was at the end of April. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, this goes 6 back -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Don't worry, they'll get it. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: They'll get there. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're in the brush 10 fire season now. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things that 13 will be interesting on this would be a -- we've done it very 14 arbitrarily, what Larry was talking about last time, to kind 15 of look at population a little bit as being the service -- 16 kind of service areas for these, 'cause our populations have 17 changed over time, and kind of look at -- I mean, the -- how 18 the population and area kind of -- I don't know how you 19 figure out form. Maybe it's better to leave it the way it 20 is, but still kind of take it under consideration. I don't 21 have a problem leaving them this year, but it may be a 22 project, see how they play out after we have new census 23 numbers in, see what the service areas are. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For example, looking 25 at that, Jonathan, if you were to combine the service area 83 1 of both Center Point and Elm Pass, you got about the 2 equivalent of what Turtle Creek gets and what it covers. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're in the ballpark 5 on those two -- those three, at least. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's another point. 7 Turtle Creek comes all the way around and covers Kerrville 8 South. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my point, 10 yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's why it is 12 so important that we have this contract with the City of 13 Kerrville. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To get that pumper 16 truck in and then run it to that school in Kerrville South 17 in three minutes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How far out does City 19 of Kerrville go in that direction? For example, to where 20 Turtle Creek comes in? Do you know? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They'll go anywhere. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anywhere? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not necessarily with 24 the pumper, but they will go with grass trucks and that kind 25 of thing, yeah. They'll go in anywhere in the county. 84 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City of Kerrville? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that -- excuse me. On 3 Ingram -- and several years ago there was talk about 4 relooking at that number for Ingram, because of the fact 5 that they have a fire district and are taxing out there and, 6 you know, providing funds for a fire district. I mean, 7 it's -- it's different than the others. And I know that's 8 something else we may really want to look at next year, as 9 to how -- how we're going to -- and I don't know how much 10 money -- the rates they're taxed, but I know they're taxing 11 out there as well. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a good 13 question. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I brought that exact 15 point up the very first year they had the fire district, and 16 here we are still. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our funding never went 18 down? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next budget is the Health 23 Department, which is under Tab 19. It's the second budget 24 under that tab. And, again, it reflects what was budgeted 25 last year, or -- or our point was actually spent for last 85 1 year. We do note that the First Responder Coordinator 2 resigned, so I guess we won't pay out the full $7,500 this 3 year till they get somebody in the job. I don't know. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know they're in that 5 process of interviewing in-house. I've had a couple phone 6 calls about it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is Ron leaving the area 8 or just leaving this -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Going to 10 Fredericksburg. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Fredericksburg? The same 12 job, or -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Basically the same 14 job, only he's over all the E.M.S., all the fire service, 15 and something else; I can't remember, but he's taking on a 16 pretty good load. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions or comments about 18 the Health Department budget? Okay. Next one up for 19 consideration is County Judge. Let me -- let me go back on 20 Health. I see E.M.S. contract on there, and in light of the 21 letter we just received from Kendall County, that's 22 something that we really -- and I don't know if it's going 23 to affect the budget or not, but Kendall County has informed 24 us that they're not going to routinely respond to E.M.S. 25 calls in Kerr County any longer, and that's going to be a 86 1 real problem. I mean, historically, the way that's been 2 handled, the 911 calls required E.M.S. went to both 3 counties, and whoever got there first responded, which would 4 generally be Comfort. And they're saying that now they will 5 only respond if all the ambulances in Kerr County are out, 6 so that's going to be a real problem. And I think we're 7 going to really -- this is something to really address in 8 Precinct 2 and 3. And, I -- you know, if that's going to -- 9 if we can't work out an arrangement with Kendall County, 10 which will probably require funding, or get them to change 11 that policy or something, my first gut thought is that we're 12 going to need to go to City of Kerrville and see if they can 13 get but some kind of -- sort of substation in the Center 14 Point area, because the problem is the response time; you 15 can't get there quick enough from Kerrville, where they're 16 currently dispatching other ambulances into the eastern part 17 of the county. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do they come as far 19 as Center Point? Kendall County? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They'll probably come 21 about to Center Point, I would imagine. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do they really? 23 Would that have any effect on Bear Creek Road way down in 24 the -- because, you know, there are three counties there. 25 That road goes through Bandera, Kerr, and into Kendall, but 87 1 Pipe -- if I understood correctly, Pipe Creek responds. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pipe Creek responds out 3 of Bandera County, primarily that area, but it could affect 4 that area, because Kendall County has area that -- I mean, I 5 don't know how they were handling that. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask -- 7 I thought Pipe Creek went all the way to the end, which 8 would be kind of a piece -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's something I plan 10 to look into, but I just bring it up as a point that if -- 11 if the concern is it's a dollar issue only with Kendall 12 County, you know, maybe we could help out some there through 13 an interlocal agreement with them, a formal interlocal 14 agreement, which we do not have, which is something that 15 would be the most economical way to address it, to me. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And again, it proves 17 up the importance of the First Responder program. They're 18 very, very important. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: U.G.R.A. Is there any -- 21 I mean, is that saying -- that's the -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the 23 administrative fee. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the O.S.S.F.? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 88 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is the last year under 2 the contract that we are obligated to provide them with that 3 subsidy. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But this -- all 5 right. So this year, this is still a fixed one? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which doesn't mean 8 it's going to go away. It's probably going to increase. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the 10 administrative fee for O.S.S.F. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Because there's 12 a -- I just think continually -- I mean, U.G.R.A. complains 13 about having -- having this continually, as well. I mean -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I just had a -- 15 a conversation with a member of that board that just 16 returned from a retreat, their annual planning retreat, and 17 the sense of that board was to continue it as a water 18 quality issue for them, and they really don't want to not do 19 it. We've been reading that the board has been critical of 20 it, they don't like being the bad boys or whatever, but they 21 really -- to reduce it to the lowest common denominator, 22 it's a water quality issue for them, and that they really 23 believe they belong in that business as a water quality 24 matter. So, there's no sense coming out of the retreat to 25 abandon it, so I guess that's the bottom line. 89 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. The -- since 2 Headwaters has left, they are willing to discuss it with 3 their new people, if we want to get out of that contract or 4 U.G.R.A. wants us to get out of the contract. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not hearing that 6 they want to get out of it. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's just -- they -- 8 every time we meet with them, they complain about it, so I 9 thought maybe they didn't like it or didn't want to do it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've heard those 11 things, but the latest -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- is that that's 14 not -- that's not the sense of the board. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, good. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else on Health 17 Department? If not, we'll go to the County Judge, which is 18 Tab 1. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 1. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Basically unchanged from last 21 year. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Capital Outlay, zero? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I am unaware of any needs for 24 Capital Outlay coming in. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We need to make sure 90 1 there's not nothing we can think of. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's got everything. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Got everything there 4 is. Case closed. Great. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next budget is the County 6 Court, which is also the next -- it's the next budget under 7 Tab 1. And, the main thing I'd call your attention to on 8 that budget is Item Number 110, which is our court reporter 9 salary. At this time last year, the Commissioners Court 10 basically obligated itself to equalize Kathy's salary with 11 that of the other full-time court reporters, which would 12 involve an increase of approximately $5,000 over the number 13 which is shown as requested. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She does Commissioners 15 Court, she goes to State Hospital with you, she -- well, I 16 guess we just need to deal with County Court issues. The 17 State Hospital, juvenile -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Probate. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probate. That's about 20 it, County Court. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: She also, obviously, does all 22 the Commissioners Court meetings. So, I mean, she's fully 23 engaged. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd say so. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll agree with you. 91 1 I'll agree with you. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, take that up an 3 additional $5,000 to $40,190. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will she loan us some 5 money during the Christmastime -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: You'll have to ask her that. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Us lowly 8 Commissioners. Everybody's passing us up, man. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Under 104, the J.P.'s have 10 collectively asked for an increase in what we pay them to go 11 out and do the probable cause hearings at the State 12 Hospital. They've asked for a $2,400 increase. I've kind 13 of suggested maybe a $1,200 increase would be appropriate. 14 I think that's kind of a wish list item. I've also 15 suggested an increase in County Judge's salary for going out 16 and doing the mental patient hearings, if I can just explain 17 a little bit about those two. We bill other counties for my 18 services in going out and doing the hearings, and if we 19 collect 80 percent of what's billed, or anticipated to be 20 billed in the coming year -- this year, that would be about 21 $35,000. So, I -- my thinking was we would take half of 22 what we actually collect from other counties, give it to 23 myself and the J.P.'s who actually go out and do the 24 services, and use the remaining half to reimburse the County 25 for Jody's capable services, supplies, all those things. 92 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you saying other 2 counties -- we bill the other counties, talking about those 3 counties that are identified in the cachement area for 4 Kerrville State Hospital? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right, those that we have 6 contracts with. We bill them $50 per hearing for judicial 7 services. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a 9 Constitutional duty? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a duty that is my -- 11 yes, it is. County Judge with probate jurisdiction is 12 required to hold mental commitment hearings for people from 13 their county. You know, for someone in -- it's cheaper for 14 Judge -- Judge Evans in Bandera County to pay us to hold the 15 hearings than to collect his court reporter, his court 16 clerk, and his County Attorney and come up here and do a 17 hearing. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, my question 19 was about the J.P.'s, though. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: The J.P.'s are not required 21 to do that. If they don't do it, then I have to do it. And 22 it's something that I don't know when it got started, but 23 historically, the J.P.'s have gone out and done it. They've 24 done it as long as I've been in Kerr County, and probably 25 for a long time before that. They don't mind doing it. It 93 1 takes about four hours a week to hold those hearings, which 2 they rotate among -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On-call basis or 4 something? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not on-call. They just, 6 you know, this week Judge Wright will do them, next week 7 Judge Tench will do them, next week Judge Ragsdale will do 8 them, et cetera. And if we don't compensate them for that, 9 then they're not going to do it, which means that I'd have 10 to do it, which -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be how 12 much additional load on you? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: About 10 percent. Four hours 14 a week. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd say we ought to 16 do it. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll just point that out to 18 you. Does anyone else have any questions about the County 19 Court budget? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not off of that 21 one quite yet. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. I'm not asking for a 23 decision. I'm just pointing it out as to what's been 24 requested. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just trying to 94 1 weigh it out. Number one, I don't like to be threatened 2 with, you know, if y'all don't pay me more, we're going to 3 quit functioning for the County. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, that's not what I said. 5 I said they've asked for, a request. I said if we didn't 6 pay them anything, they probably wouldn't go out and do it, 7 because they're not required to. They haven't said, "If you 8 don't give me an increase, we won't do it." 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I want to make sure you're 11 clear on that. And I haven't said, "If you won't pay me 12 more, I won't do any more." That's part of the job; I'll do 13 it. You're going to have to -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 15 question about your salary. Is the State going to bump 16 y'all -- the County Judges up again this year? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: (Shrugged.). 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't know? 19 They're -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not in session until June, so 21 if they are, it won't be effective until the following 22 budget year. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. I'm not 24 in favor of giving these guys any kind of raise. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You say that anyway. 95 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll say that anyway. 2 Open the ball, as they say. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: you're just setting 4 the stage for the Sheriff, who's sitting out there waiting. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm glad you brought 6 that up. We are not -- I will not vote for any kind of 7 salary increases. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further comments on -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Somebody lock that door. 10 I'm going to have fun in a minute. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's turn, then, to 12 the Sheriff's Department, which is Tab 15. 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right, Sheriff. What 15 have you got for us? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Where do you want to 17 start? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you left-handed, 19 Rusty? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It shows. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All brilliant people. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: What do you have for us, 24 Rusty? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which one do you want to 96 1 start with? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff's Department. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sheriff's Department? 4 I've got pretty well all the requests. There's a few 5 concerns. After I got the 9-month expenditure for the -- 6 well, it's more or less on the jail side than on the 7 Sheriff's side. So, we were able in this -- I have figured 8 in, as I explained, the six more cars to keep going with the 9 6-year lease. The major concern I have is in gasoline. I 10 know we have to go out -- gasoline and oil, we're going to 11 have to go out for bids on that anyhow, but I did up that by 12 $10,000, I believe, and that's Line Item 331, from $45,000 13 to $55,536. And, currently, with what we're spending per 14 month on gasoline, I don't believe that that's going to be 15 enough, unless something really happens with gas prices this 16 year. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty, setting aside 18 the current price aberrations that we're going through as a 19 nation on gasoline, do you think we're purchasing our 20 gasoline as economically as we possibly could? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't think so, 23 either. And I'm wondering if you have some thoughts as to 24 how we can do it better. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I talked to Leonard a 97 1 little bit about it, and he -- with the facilities we have 2 out there, I think there's 17 acres on that grounds, on 3 the -- where the Sheriff's Office and jail is. I think it 4 may be advantageous to look at -- I think he said E.P.A. -- 5 you can get a 1,000-gallon above-ground tank that you can 6 even have where you use the card, you know, to where we keep 7 track, and it's still keeps track of exactly what each 8 individual car is using and that, to where you can get 9 around a lot of the E.P.A. stuff. You have to provide some 10 kind of containment area. This is all new to me, but I 11 think if we look at buying it in bulk that way, maybe 12 putting up two of those 1,000-gallon tanks, where you have 13 at least 2,000 gallons out there at any time and then going 14 out for bid in bulk form, we may come out better in the long 15 run, even with building a containment-type area and the 16 above-ground tanks. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you talk with 18 Leonard in that vein about just the Sheriff's Department, or 19 is there some thought that the Sheriff's Department and Road 20 and Bridge requirements could be combined into one fueling 21 station? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think Leonard would be 23 open to that. I would be open to that, as long as we can 24 keep 24-hour access to it. That's our biggest concern now. 25 I'm not -- I'm not worried about where we actually get our 98 1 gas from, as long as we can get 24-hour access to it at 2 least at one place within the county. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you looked into 4 talking with any of the -- I guess Mini Mart or Town and 5 Country, some of those convenience stores that are located 6 throughout the county, about them -- I don't know if it's 7 even possible, but issue on a bid basis a credit card for 8 them, where you can get a lower price? I mean, you're 9 running it through -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What we're doing right 11 now is through Town and Country, is where the former Sheriff 12 had it set up, and that is a gas card, and each officer has 13 a gas card. You go in and you use the card. I believe it 14 is a little bit of a discount price, which, once you get 15 into that -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they bid that? Do you 17 know? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Basically using a gas 20 card, but make them bid for a 30-day bid or for, you know, 21 some period. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I know Mini Mart, 23 Junior Fritz has advised me that he would be interested in 24 at least having the opportunity to bid on county gasoline, 25 because I think they use -- I don't know if it's Shamrock or 99 1 what this actually -- well, he uses Exxon and Shamrock and 2 Neerfleet or something like that would be their fleet card 3 that they could do -- do on that order. I just -- first 4 year I'm having to deal with that type of gasoline 5 purchases, and so I have no idea. But, I think we can 6 probably at least beat what we're doing right now. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you should look 8 into it. I don't think it's an aberration. I think 9 we're -- it's here to stay for quite a while. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could go -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's something -- 12 you know, $10,000 likely is not a big enough increase, in my 13 mind. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I'm 15 concerned about, is last month -- well, in -- from -- I 16 believe last month, it was $5,058, but I saw one month where 17 it was a little over $6,000, right at $6,000, and I'm 18 just -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $35,000, that goes to 20 $60,000. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be in favor of 23 raising the total to 60 or 65, for that matter. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's just going to 25 depend on data processing, what we can come up with. 100 1 Currently, if we had to stay with where we're buying it, I'm 2 afraid $55,000 is not going to cover it. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we need to bid this in 4 time for it to be part of the budget. So, we can either 5 leave it or bump it to 55 -- or to 65, but then try to 6 substitute the actual estimated price based on the bids we 7 accept. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even on the bids, you can 9 only bid it probably for about a 2-week period of time. 10 Road and Bridge, every time they purchase, they bid. And if 11 we get storage tanks or -- I mean, unless they get bid for a 12 longer period of time and tie it to some world price. 13 Which, you know, may be possible. I don't know. Or 14 Junior's -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we had a Purchasing 16 Agent -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Would you be more comfortable 18 with, Sheriff, 65? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to see it up to 20 at least 65. I mean, none of us know what gas prices are 21 going to do, but on the current, if it doesn't go up more 22 than another, probably, 10, 15 cents a gallon, 65 may cover 23 us. I'm also hoping in this same deal that our six new 24 patrol cars we have are going to get a lot better gas 25 mileage than the ones we have out there now. 101 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: 65? Going once, going twice. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's okay. 3 The number's okay, but conjunctive to that, I'd really like 4 for us to somehow or another get a handle on -- on a better 5 way. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have to -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A unified filling 8 station for Road and Bridge and Rusty, or by bid or 9 whatever. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions about the 12 Sheriff's Department budget? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything you want to point 15 out specifically, Rusty? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I put an asterisk 17 on the budget by the FICA, group insurance and that, 'cause 18 I just don't know how that would end up figuring out. I did 19 ask for one more deputy in this. What that position would 20 be, I think it really falls under the wish list type, but 21 what that position would be is a work-release officer, 22 taking a current -- I have one specific person in mind at 23 this time, who's already a certified officer and being used 24 to working with inmates and does it, but I'd like to see us 25 start a program of having about five inmates at a time, five 102 1 days a week, out working at either here or around the 2 courthouse, around the jail facility, around the parks, 3 whatever. Glenn Holekamp and I have talked about this. As 4 far as the Sheriff's Department providing an officer to be 5 the guard of the inmates, and then the Maintenance 6 Department providing the equipment necessary to do the work 7 with, and what we would do for transportation on those, we 8 do have the current jail van that we use to haul inmates 9 back and forth up here. If it's a day that the inmates -- 10 that we need that van to actually bring inmates up here to 11 court, then we would use those five inmates on the work 12 release working out there on the grounds of the Sheriff's 13 Office. If it's one where we don't have court that day and 14 we would have access to that van to haul them out to the Ag 15 Barn or to the county parks or -- or places like that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or new garden. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or new garden or 18 something like that. But I'm not interested at this time in 19 allowing those inmates to work at nonprofit organization 20 type deals, cleaning up. I would rather keep it on County 21 property right now, just as a matter to get this program 22 going and see how it works for a few years. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a great 24 idea. But on 104 -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You're not reflecting 103 1 an extra deputy. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it goes under the 3 wish list, I believe, on the back is where I started asking 4 for that. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, I see it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On 454, vehicle repair, 8 you lowered that substantially. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a nightmare. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that because of the -- 11 or goes hand-in-hand with the new -- that six additional new 12 vehicles? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. I cut that in 14 half, hoping that with the six new additional vehicles, one, 15 they're under warranty. It will take at least six off the 16 road that have in excess of 300 -- anywhere from 300,000 to 17 400,000 miles on those. So, I'm hoping that we can 18 drastically cut that maintenance in half. It's my whole 19 idea behind this. Last month alone, our vehicle maintenance 20 just for repairs, not gas and oil, was a little over $7,000. 21 It's ridiculous on those vehicles. So, I'm hoping with -- 22 with, one, the six vehicles we just got in, that they hit 23 the road in about a week or two weeks, and then if the 24 Capital Outlay line items are approved here and we can get 25 the bids out early enough this year, you know, as soon as 104 1 October comes around -- and I know last -- last year, I was 2 told it was right at February 1st before the new vehicles 3 were actually ordered, which just now came in. And if we 4 can get those bids out and get those -- that order done a 5 lot sooner than that, we'll take another six off the road 6 during the year. And I hope that will cut down the 7 maintenance. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we can get those 9 bids out early enough. Also, you might benefit from the 10 close-outs on the 2000 models. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We very well -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2000 models. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Could very well come up 14 with that. And there are some things that, when they 15 delivered these new cars, some factors we might possibly be 16 able to factor in that may change Capital Outlay. I didn't 17 know -- know what part of one of these were ordered, but I 18 know the place that one of the bids this time says what they 19 normally do is when they do the bid, they come up and look 20 at the ones you're going to put down and take out of 21 service, and they figure in their bid price a trade-in for 22 those vehicles. They trade them for the equipment that's on 23 those vehicles, and when you get the new vehicles, they're 24 already marked how you want them, all the equipment's 25 already preinstalled, you don't have to pay different places 105 1 around here to install equipment or try and get it, and when 2 they're delivered, they're ready to hit the road. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That didn't happen 4 this time. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That didn't happen this 6 time, okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Never has happened. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And this was something, 9 just so the people -- Piedmont Motors, who won, you know, 10 last year's bid, and I were talking about it, though. They 11 do it for probably 20 or 30 cars a day, is what they rig out 12 and equip, and they're trained and that's what they do 13 constantly, is put this equipment in. And I think it may -- 14 in the long run, taking our old cars and our old equipment 15 may help us greatly. That's something that needs to be 16 looked at during the bid process, so it could change this. 17 When I did this budget request, I didn't have that 18 information, so I figured in different items. 19 Now, on Capital Outlay here, I did not figure 20 in -- okay. What I did is that I was asking for the 21 approval of $101,000 total. This will cover the estimate on 22 the new bids from Piedmont Motors if we -- if they were to 23 win it. They were estimating about $45,000 this year for 24 the six new cars on the lease program. This $44,282, right 25 at it, is what you're going to pay for the second year of 106 1 the current ones that we have, so you have another $45,000 2 there for six more. I put in here $4,056 for the equipment. 3 That does not include light bars. I didn't ask for any new 4 light bars. We had some we can use, and I'm hoping we'll 5 end up with some -- maybe some funds somewhere else where if 6 we have to buy one or two, we have a warrants car out there 7 that's used for just warrant, you know, service and things 8 like that. It's got a light bar on top, which is identical 9 to the ones we're using, and it's also got front grill 10 lights on it, and I don't think it really needs both, being 11 just a warrants car; it's not a patrol car. And then, 12 hopefully, if this works out in the bid-type deal where they 13 furnish the equipment, we can get rid of a lot of our old 14 light bars, maybe, and trade, 'cause we -- we have probably 15 eight or ten light bars in storage out there which are old 16 ones that aren't really worth much. City of Kerrville even 17 gave us their old ones off their cars that they took off, 18 and some of them we can make one out of. I just hate to put 19 bad equipment on these new cars that come in. Just depends 20 on how it all works out. 21 The other thing I did -- last year, y'all 22 paid for -- in the bids it was about $2,000, $2,100 per 23 radar unit for the six cars that we have, and those radar 24 units are being installed. The ones that I was looking at, 25 which would do effectively the same thing, but are about 107 1 half that price. They got, you know, the top-of-the-line 2 one. I think we can do with the middle of the line instead 3 of the very top of the line. Just as reliable. Most of the 4 City cars have the second line radar units in them. I just 5 don't think that -- that we are out there writing that many 6 tickets that we need to go through a high-dollar radar unit. 7 So, that -- try to cut that some. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, under the plan -- 9 when we went into the lease-purchase concept last year, we 10 were in drastic shape about cars; I think some were pretty 11 bad. Now, I've talked -- I think you feel like a 3-year -- 12 you know, you want to keep a car over a 3-year period and 13 kind of roll them over continually, would be the plan. Can 14 we stretch that to a 4-year -- what would that do? To 15 try -- we're going to be looking at about $120,000 a year 16 after we go into the next year. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to see it kept 18 on a 3-year, six cars every three years. Right at the 19 current time, we have 18 patrol units. With the average 20 miles that officers are putting on those units, every three 21 years, by the time the first ones are ready to come out of 22 patrol, they will have right at 80,000 to 85,000 miles on 23 them, which is about the same stage D.P.S. gets rid of 24 theirs, and most agencies do, 'cause after that you start 25 getting into maintenance. You start getting into wear and 108 1 tear. Three years -- I didn't look at what kind of warranty 2 that the County looked at on these vehicles, but I would 3 imagine it's going to get -- you know, could be 100,000 4 miles for three years on some of those, I don't know. I 5 just -- but hopefully 90 percent of the time they're off the 6 road, they would be under warranty, so we would cut down 7 drastically on the maintenance. And then, after that three 8 years, those cars coming out could be given to our criminal 9 investigators for their cars, or they could be given to the 10 constables, if the County wishes to do so, because after 11 that third year, y'all pay a dollar for them and then rotate 12 them on out and let them keep going. And, I just think, for 13 patrol fleet, my deal is every car we get under this, every 14 police package car, no matter what -- this is a little bit 15 different than what's prior -- will go on the street on 16 patrol. That's where they need to be. That's where that 17 type of car needs to be. It doesn't need to be one I drive 18 or -- or one somebody in C.I.D. or Warrants drives. They 19 don't need those new cars. We need those newer cars, better 20 cars on patrol. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- do you have 22 any idea or feel for what the value of these cars will be 23 after three years? I mean, I can see that at some point, 24 we're going to have a -- not need to keep them all. I mean, 25 start rotating, bringing six new cars in or rotate six very 109 1 good condition cars into C.I.D. or constables or wherever, 2 that are getting to the point you can probably start selling 3 these cars and offsetting some of the new purchase costs. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know the one I had 5 before before I became Sheriff, when I was at the Sheriff's 6 Office, we ended up getting a used D.P.S. sergeant car, 7 which wasn't a pursuit-type car, but it was a D.P.S. 8 sergeant car. It had 86,000 miles on it then, I think. 9 They had taken it out of line and the Sheriff's Office here 10 bought it, and if I'm not mistaken, they paid a little over 11 $8,000 for it -- $7,500 to $8,000 for that car. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, $24,000, $25,000 a 13 year by getting rid of three -- selling three of them, 14 keeping three. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: When we get to the point 16 where we don't need to keep all of the cars, then we can 17 basically offset approximately a third of the cost. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And plus I hope, over 19 the next few years, you know, if -- if some of this stuff -- 20 there's a change in the court security budget -- and I know 21 you don't want to talk about that till we get to that, but 22 if some of that works, it may end up giving us an additional 23 two to three officers on the street, on patrol, which will 24 be two or three more cars. But still, as long as we stay 25 with these six, we can still get those cars going. Now, 110 1 some of them we may stagger when we're getting rid of them 2 at that point, but we won't have to go out and actually get 3 other brand-new cars, as long as we're staying on the 4 program with six a year. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 7 questions about the Sheriff's budget -- Sheriff's Department 8 budget? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing I will mention 10 that y'all may want to cut out because of this salary -- we 11 weren't sure what the salary is. I have on the wish list on 12 there, I think, $14,000 in addition for kind of giving merit 13 raises. I have some proposals once we get to salary stuff 14 that I think would do away with that part. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be 16 included in your -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we do the -- the 18 employment priorities that I've set out, that will take care 19 of that issue. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I have another 21 $1,700 for giving secretaries raises, so that could come out 22 of there, and things like that. I tried to make -- as you 23 can tell, I tried to the best of my ability to make some 24 pretty drastic cuts in this budget from things that I didn't 25 feel we really needed at the time. I cut the investigative 111 1 expense quite a bit, just about half, because normally we do 2 not use it. Now, if there were a case that we had a real 3 bad crime, you know, like a multiple homicide or something 4 like that, and we had to send officers to other states to do 5 investigations, some of that could get eaten up pretty 6 quick, and at that point I may have to come and ask for some 7 additional funding for that, but that doesn't happen that 8 often. I've seen one of those type of investigations in the 9 last -- well, since '92 is when -- the only investigation 10 I've seen that really took that kind of manpower and funding 11 to do. So, I felt it was economical to try and cut that 12 part of it. 13 There -- another thing that I have done is 14 the training went up a little. I want to try and work in 15 there getting all the officers out to Thunder Ranch to do 16 our yearly qualification and our yearly firearms training. 17 I don't think we'll ever get a better facility to train at. 18 And, after watching what the City went through with their 19 lawsuit several years ago in their officer-involved 20 shooting, and they had that capability -- and I know the 21 federal court -- the jury even came back that they could 22 have even had possibly better training. Now, if they're 23 going to come back with saying they had possibly better 24 training, if we end up in an officer-involved shooting, with 25 our training and going out to a gravel pit, shooting 60 112 1 rounds a year, I think we're going to be in trouble, when 2 you've got City officers that go out to Thunder Ranch three 3 times a year and shoot over 1,000 rounds. Big difference, I 4 think. Just liability. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: You requested what? You've 6 requested an additional $5,000 in ammunition and additional 7 $37,000 in training fees on your wish list. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the wish list. What 9 it is, is $6,000 in training, which covers the -- they have 10 offered us -- Thunder Ranch has offered -- the City 11 currently pays about $12,000 a year just for lease of the 12 facility to go out and do it. What they have done is they 13 have combined -- Fredericksburg Police Department has 14 committed to going out and doing all their training at 15 Thunder Ranch. Kerrville Police Department, of course, is, 16 and they have offered us part of that. And what it will 17 cost is $6,000 a year per agency for the lease of the 18 facility. Now, that entails the officers going out three 19 times a year to that facility to shoot and qualify, which 20 is -- was fabulous training. At three times a year, you're 21 talking about spending -- or as far as service weapon ammo, 22 is about 1,000 rounds, and we're anywhere from 1,000 to 23 1,200 rounds per officer, is what he's going to be shooting 24 at that facility. Averages a little over 300 rounds a time. 25 Best I could estimate, that ammunition alone is going to 113 1 cost us anywhere around $6,000 or $7,000. Hopefully, in 2 some -- I've got it covered, I think, in what I'm asking 3 for. And then there -- we can also get some donations and 4 hopefully pay for some of it, I think, ourselves, out of 5 either equipment funds or -- or some other avenues of doing 6 that. But, I think our officers really need that training. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would agree with 8 that. Rusty, would you -- would you just give me a minute's 9 explanation on 316 with regard to uniforms? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uniforms, I have upped a 11 little -- 316? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just what you had in 13 mind there. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I have in mind 15 is -- I don't have one of the shirts on. What I plan on 16 doing with our department uniforms, I'd like to get 17 everybody wearing exactly the same thing. They wear -- some 18 of them wear Wrangler jeans now. Some of them wear the 19 brown knit jeans. The Wrangler jeans, every time they wash 20 them, they come out a different color, they fade different, 21 or if they're taking them to the cleaners or whatever, and 22 nobody looks consistent. I want to get back -- and I've 23 been hollered at for using this word, because it was used -- 24 but I do believe in it. I want to get back the 25 professionalism in the department, the professional image. 114 1 You know, same way as changing the cars, what we're doing, 2 but what this would do is we would stay with the same 3 khaki-type shirts that we wear that have the epaulets up 4 here. The only difference would be the epaulets would have 5 a dark brown border around the epaulet itself, okay? Which 6 matches the dark brown border around the patch, the shoulder 7 patch. Wouldn't change the patches; they stay the same. 8 The pants would be a lighter tan color pant with a stripe 9 down the -- 1-inch stripe down the side with a dark brown 10 border down the stripe. And then go to a silver-belly 11 3 1/2-inch brim hat for during the winter-type months, and a 12 straw hat during the summer months; that would be part of 13 their uniform. 14 The County has -- the way they've always done 15 it in the past, I don't know how it was ever budgeted, is on 16 the silver-belly felt hats, normally they run about $170 a 17 piece, $150 to $170, depending on -- I would hope we can 18 call some company and maybe get them a little bit cheaper if 19 we buy them in bulk, that type amount. But, the County's 20 normally paid $40 onto the hat, and the officer has had to 21 pay the rest, and that's kind of what I'm basing this on. 22 I'd like -- personally, I'd like to see the County pay for 23 the hats, period. But that's the uniform change. We're 24 going to go to the black leather and black boots; it's just 25 cheaper to get than the brown. Brown is hard to find. Most 115 1 of them have to get it made, you know, themselves by a 2 leathersmith somewhere, and that costs -- one that was going 3 to get some made, the leather gear itself, just two belts 4 and a holster, handcuff case, that was going to run him 5 $580-something. So, that's what it costs for that type of 6 gear, and so black, you can get it through, like, Safariland 7 and that a lot less. We do have -- and to help with the 8 transition into black, we have a lot of guns that were -- 9 have been seized over the years that are out of the -- 10 they're not worth much or whatever; they're not evidence. 11 The evidentiary value is gone. The cases have been disposed 12 of. Some of the the cases have been disposed of for over 20 13 years, that just -- they've never done anything with these. 14 They need to be gotten rid of. There's no owners. We can 15 follow the Code of Criminal Procedure in doing it, get those 16 awarded to the Department so that we can go ahead and 17 dispose of those, either by trading them into a gun dealer 18 or -- or destroying them, whichever the case may be on 19 those. But, I think we can come up with some funds to help, 20 in turn, pay for some of this leather gear, 'cause that's 21 going to be hard on the officers. Even though it's not 22 expensive, it's still going to cost some. 23 The other thing I'd like to do, and maybe 24 this grant -- this $15,000 grant will help do, is right now, 25 each officer furnishes his own badge. Badges of this type 116 1 will run right at $100 a piece, and they're having to 2 furnish them. Which I don't mind so much, except that when 3 that officer leaves, if he's terminated, if he goes 4 somewhere else, he gets to keep his badge. And I have a 5 concern about former employees running around with Kerr 6 County badges, that they can do whatever they want to with 7 it. I think the County needs to be furnishing these badges 8 so that we can get them back when the employee leaves. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Should be a controlled 10 item. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had a jailer that had 12 one, you know, made, and I ended up terminating him; he 13 didn't make his probation. But, he had a Kerr County badge, 14 and I really had concerns, so I -- out of the Equipment Fund 15 money, out of donations, I bought the badge back from him so 16 that he wouldn't have it. And I just have that kind of 17 concern if we're not furnishing at least the badges to start 18 out with. That's where a lot of the uniform -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of the uniform. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Were you buying those 21 or using a uniform service to provide them? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We buy those. I checked 23 into a uniform service, you know, and at first I had one 24 tell me a real good price. Then they called back a few 25 weeks later and his price over doubled, and I just wasn't 117 1 pleased with the quality. I had several of them come out 2 and show me some uniforms, show me things, and I'm just not 3 pleased with the quality and that of that. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What did you say the 5 badges cost? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $100 a piece, around 7 that. Now, when I first started, they were $30, but now 8 they're $100 a piece. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're getting old. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I am. But I think 11 that's one of my bigger increases. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I need to say again, I 13 think these badges ought to be controlled items, just like 14 a -- 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I totally agree. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- military I.D. card 17 or something. Should be serial-numbered, and I know it's -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You would have to up 19 my -- if you wanted to count them as part of the uniform, 20 you'd have to up the -- that allotment. Of course, right 21 now, since officers all have their own, there's nothing we 22 can do, but I would like to gradually -- and hopefully, we 23 won't have the turnover, but I would like to gradually start 24 buying those when the new officers come on, that we purchase 25 the badge so we control it; we get it back if they leave. 118 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. What else on the 2 Sheriff's Department budget? Anyone else have any 3 questions? Let's go to the Courthouse Security, which is 4 the next budget behind the Sheriff's Department. The 5 Sheriff has some innovations, changes he'd like to propose 6 on that issue. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I would like to do 8 on that -- Judge Henneke and I visited; I visited with both 9 District Judges on that. We have on there -- you have a 10 courthouse security officer, a deputy, and then we also have 11 a part-time bailiff. My proposal on this is to turn the 12 part-time bailiff position, which is Mr. Zumwalt sitting 13 back there, into a full-time position as a full-time 14 bailiff/courthouse security. But, the agreement I have made 15 with the judges is that his bailiff duties are a priority, 16 if they have any district court going. Mainly in district 17 courts, and some of the funding comes out of there, I 18 believe, and that his primary duty will be bailiff. If 19 there is a district court going and he's acting as a bailiff 20 and there's a problem in the courthouse or anything like 21 that, we will send a regular officer off the street, just 22 like we would with any other call-type deal. If we have two 23 courts going, you know, it's just no different than what 24 we're having to do now; we're having to find another officer 25 or a jailer or constable or somebody to assist in bailiff 119 1 duties at that point. 2 The main thing the courthouse security 3 officer is doing now, besides walking around courthouse, is 4 doing what we call the Swap Program. He keeps those 5 records. That's the Sheriff's work alternative program. 6 I've looked at that. The Assistant County Attorney and I 7 have talked about that. I'm just not on -- I don't feel 8 comfortable with that program. I don't feel comfortable 9 with how it's -- the authorization to actually do it. I 10 feel those people that are put on that program ought to be 11 put under the regular community service with probation, and 12 let's do our work release program like I'm requesting that 13 officer for, so that would take away those Swap duties that 14 that courthouse security officer has here, which would leave 15 him just helping out in the courtrooms, and I think we need 16 that position on patrol more constantly -- more than we do 17 here at the courthouse. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in favor of that, 19 Judge. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I am, too. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: That involves -- just so we 22 have the numbers right, boys, that involves about a $7,000, 23 mas or menos, increase in the Bailiff line item to take that 24 to a full-time position, and then the current courthouse 25 security deputy will be reassigned to Patrol Division or to 120 1 the use of the Sheriff as he feels -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As another deputy. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- necessary. So, there is 4 no -- there is no budgetary impact upon the courthouse 5 security, per se, because the individual shall be funded at 6 the same level. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wouldn't -- but the 8 deputy would go to zero and the courthouse security would go 9 up. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The deputy would go over 11 to the Sheriff's Office, because he'd be a patrol deputy; 12 give me another hand. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Basically, Line Items 14 1804-201, 202, and 203, would go to the Sheriff's 15 Department. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're going to 17 have 201, 202, 203 for the bailiff -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- also. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: So -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If he goes full-time. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: What -- really, what we 23 really probably should do is recharacterize this particular 24 budget as Courthouse Bailiff, as opposed to Courthouse 25 Security. 121 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have a problem with 3 this at all. I think it's a great idea. The only thing is 4 that, essentially, we are funding this deputy's salary with 5 non-tax dollars. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Out of -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Because we're funding that 8 with -- with the courthouse security fee that's collected by 9 the District Clerk and the County Clerk for all cases that 10 come before those courts. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does that include the 12 bailiffs, or is that -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: That includes the bailiffs 14 also. So, we're somewhat giving up -- we're trading non-tax 15 dollars for tax dollars. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couldn't we -- I mean, it 17 may be a little bit cumbersome work, but when the deputy is 18 assigned down here, I mean, we're still collecting that fee. 19 Couldn't the transfer be made to the Sheriff's budget from 20 the courthouse security? Based on the, you know, monthly 21 record of what's -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the law -- the law -- I 23 think -- I don't remember exactly what the statute says, but 24 that fee is for the sole purpose of what it says, courthouse 25 security. 122 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm saying, like, if 2 Rusty keeps track of -- say he has, you know, 40 hours 3 during a month of his deputy's time down here doing 4 courthouse security functions, considered solely courthouse 5 security, then we could transfer the funds to the Sheriff's 6 Department out of that? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: That's kind of a stretch, I 8 think. But I just wanted -- I just wanted you to be aware 9 that that's what we're doing. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's really not a 11 revenue-neutral move. Basically, what it is, is you have to 12 come out of tax dollars. We're giving the Sheriff an 13 additional deputy, but it is a wasted position right now. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What about -- since we 15 do, on occasion, use a deputy for courthouse security, 16 couldn't we allocate -- which is what Jonathan is getting at 17 too, I think -- we can allocate a portion of that -- of that 18 courthouse security fee to pay for deputy time spent on 19 courthouse security. I don't think that's a stretch. I 20 mean, it's just cost allocation, 'cause if -- if he is 21 providing a deputy for courthouse security, then those fees 22 ought to be able to be reimbursed to him from that fund, I 23 would think. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I think maybe we 25 can, but that's going to be a -- a recordkeeping problem for 123 1 either -- for the Sheriff or the -- the Treasurer's office. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What it would amount to 3 is, if you're talking security, you're saying a bailiff 4 comes out of that also. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. I mean -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we have to have 7 another deputy -- one of these Sheriff's Office deputies 8 come up here and assist, you know, because you may have two 9 courts going at one time or you may have a security issue 10 that we need to take care of, at that point it's no 11 different for us than what we're doing with our transport 12 officer or -- like, Mr. Zumwalt, if he goes on transports 13 now, he keeps his -- a record of the hours he's spent on 14 transport, and that comes out of a different line item 15 currently than just the regular deputy's salary. So, we 16 could do the same thing with that officer, whenever he's up 17 here. Just keep the records of the hours he's spending as a 18 bailiff or as courthouse security, and have that come out of 19 this courthouse security fee. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, what we would -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Still get the benefit of 22 an officer. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: What we should do is budget 24 for bailiff, full-time position, all the benefits, and then 25 add an additional $10,000, just as a marker. 124 1 MR. TOMLINSON: That's fine. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which would be the -- the 3 line item transfer. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I just had another 5 idea. Why couldn't we designate the deputy who's closest to 6 the courthouse as courthouse security? I'm serious. That's 7 who we dispatch in case of -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The deputies normally 9 are not going to be -- you know, I let the City take care of 10 the city. We're going to try keep the deputies out in the 11 county, unless there's one out at -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One of them's got to 13 be closest. Whoever's closest is who you're going to 14 dispatch, probably, if you had a problem. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure. Oh, yeah. 16 MS. PIEPER: I have a question. Let me see 17 if I'm hearing this right. He's going to be a full-time 18 bailiff, but then if we have a security problem, we're going 19 to call the Sheriff's Office? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. What it amounts to, 21 if he is not -- his duties -- like, this started out as 22 bailiff/security. If there is not any court in process, 23 he's here five days a week, 40 hours a day, (sic) same as 24 any courthouse employee would be. And if he is not in a 25 bailiff capacity, okay, then he is the courthouse security 125 1 person. If he is doing bailiff work and we need something 2 done at the courthouse, we'll send an officer over. 3 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just don't -- from 5 what I have seen -- 6 MS. PIEPER: One thing that runs through my 7 mind is the lady that carried a .357 loaded in her purse in 8 my office. Then whenever we're working at our computer, 9 when a defendant walks up and has outstanding warrants, and 10 if he's up in court, there's no way that we can detain that 11 person. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wouldn't expect y'all 13 to. I wouldn't expect that -- any civilian to get involved 14 in trying to detain somebody with warrants. All you do is 15 call us and let us know, and we'll try and take it from 16 there. If we can get them, we get them. If we can't, we 17 can't. My bottom line -- if you look at the ratio of the 18 number of calls we take out on the street with the officers, 19 compared to the number of the incidences and the times that 20 an officer is needed here at the courthouse, they're -- you 21 can't even compare them, okay? And I -- I'm -- you know, I 22 agree with the security at the courthouse. We got a 23 bailiff. We'll have people in and out of the courthouse 24 constantly. I just think that a wise use of manpower for 25 this county and the way it's growing, we really need that 126 1 person on patrol, and then we'll send someone here, just 2 like we would for anybody else if they call. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, look at -- I 4 mean, let's get real about the thing. If somebody showed up 5 in this courthouse with a gun, Bobby would come down here 6 and take care of it. Steve can handle himself up there for 7 30 minutes, hopefully. I mean, let's be real about this. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can go to safety 9 priority. 10 MS. PIEPER: Would he still carry the 11 emergency pager? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Okay? But I -- 13 yes, he would, because he would be your courthouse security. 14 I wouldn't mind having another one of those beepers, if that 15 would work, out at the -- you know, the Sheriff's Office. 16 Kind of like an alarm-type deal. This county used to have 17 where it -- if a county employee was having a problem, they 18 pushed a button and it set off an alarm. I wouldn't mind 19 seeing that put back to where it would set off an alarm at 20 our office. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We used to have one 22 out here, used to have one right in here. Judge had one. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Would this position that 24 we're discussing freeing up be your work-release position? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 127 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, you're, in essence, 2 trying to cobble two positions here? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm -- that's -- in 4 essence, that's what I'm doing, trying to use the manpower a 5 little bit better. Reason I'm doing that, if we can 6 gradually -- and my hindsight, we currently on patrol run 7 six shifts, actually, is how it works out, okay? Trying to 8 keep the maximum number of people on the street that we can 9 keep on the street at any time. What this does with our 10 schedule, the way it works right now, if I can get two more 11 people on the street -- that's patrol deputies, okay? -- 12 then it will end up, we will have anywhere from four to 13 seven officers on duty at a time, depending on the -- on the 14 weekday and the time of night or time of day and all that 15 kind of stuff. Which I think, at that point, starts 16 covering the county a whole lot better than we've ever been 17 able to. Currently, we have sometimes two, sometimes three 18 on duty. And what I'm doing with this is the work-release 19 officer wouldn't have anything to do with this. The 20 security officer would be, one, myself, two that I need, 21 okay. If the S.R.O. grant is approved, once we get into 22 that, one of the other officers we have right now, like our 23 D.A.R.E. officer, would be an S.R.O. officer, and so we 24 would hire another one for that person; we wouldn't need 25 that D.A.R.E. -- that person would be on patrol. And it 128 1 would start giving me the manpower I want to get, the 2 coverage I want throughout the county, without actually 3 increasing anything other than just security officers. Now, 4 when I talked about this here, I did not realize that that 5 security fund is paid out of a different deal than what 6 the -- the County -- than our Sheriff's Office is. That's 7 the only snafu in it right now. I think as long as the 8 Sheriff's Department keeps track of that, and it's done 9 quarterly or something like that so it's not a -- you know, 10 a burden to the Treasurer and the Auditor, it's -- I don't 11 see why it can't be done that way. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I just -- only reason I 13 made the comment, I just wanted you to know it's not -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy, good comment, 15 because -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't know. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- it was apples and oranges. 18 We needed to understand what we talk about. I'm glad you 19 did. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're going to put 21 it under -- it's going to read -- under 493, it's going to 22 be "bailiff/security"? Or are you going to make 104 -- how 23 are we going to -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 493 will be 129 1 bailiff/security, and -- 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Addition. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 104 goes away. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 104 goes away, but then 5 we need a new line item for Courthouse Security, with 6 $10,000 in it to handle the switching of those funds. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- what we ought to do is 10 change 104 to bailiff/security. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. 493 goes 13 away. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: And then 493, we'll make -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Security. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Or part-time -- no, not 17 security. Additional bailiff, or -- that's what's paid out 18 of the security fund for the bailiffs. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about additional 20 security? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let me ask one other 22 thing while you're doing that additional security. 23 Something that I don't think has ever been done that way -- 24 maybe it has, because, you know, me just finding out about 25 this fund. In case we have trials going on up here where we 130 1 need additional officers -- as y'all have seen, sometimes 2 it's a pretty high-profile file trial, or things like that. 3 I may be required to keep three or four officers up here 4 during that time. Is there a way that -- in that, because 5 that does come out of a separate fund, that this can be 6 classified as courthouse security or bailiff, to where their 7 salaries during that time can be reimbursed? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Out of that fund? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To the Sheriff's Office. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the answer to that 11 would be if you're requested by a sitting District Judge to 12 provide additional security in the form of either bailiffs 13 or uniformed officers, crowd control or whatever, then 14 that -- in my opinion, that would be a reimbursable expense 15 out of the security fund. Tommy, would you -- 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I think so. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- concur? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I think so. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, again, it's -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll keep that in mind, 21 as far as -- 22 MS. PIEPER: Just as a note, I think that's 23 the way that those walk-through metal detectors were also 24 purchased. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, they were. 131 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know if I'm 2 reading this correct -- our fund balance is only $8,000 in 3 Courthouse Security. There's not a whole lot of money 4 there. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we end up paying 7 some out of tax money anyway. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you'll be taking 9 away this 23095. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's true. 11 Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So that whole page 13 will get reworked. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reworked. Anything else? 15 For the jail? You got five minutes, Rusty. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We haven't touched the 17 jail yet. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I know. We're on the 19 jail now. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Tab 14. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the jail now, okay. 22 In looking, one of my concerns I just found this morning, in 23 looking at trash services under the jail, which is Item 24 400 -- 512-400, okay, original budget last year was $4,500. 25 I kept it at the same, because I didn't realize that there 132 1 would be any difference or any problem. But I look -- 2 looking through the month ending June 30th, and looking over 3 that percentage that is remaining in that line item right 4 now, we only have 11 percent. So, whoever did last year's 5 budget -- I don't know who or whatever, but if we're already 6 down to only 11 percent, we got four more months to go. We 7 should have 25 percent in it. I'm afraid we're not going to 8 make it, and which would make me concerned about, is $4,500 9 going to be enough in next year's -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably not. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- budget? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably not. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also looks to me like 14 we're off on '98/'99, too. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, the trash 16 service at my house is a set rate. I don't understand how 17 you'd -- why you can't get a real number. But -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I think, apparently, 19 commercial rates have -- have gone up. I've noticed that -- 20 that the trash service out at the Detention Facility has 21 gone up from what it was a year ago. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We just need to scrub 23 that, get a real number. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're about $1,000 25 short, then, for next year. 133 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Be pretty close to 2 $1,000 short. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You use B.F.I.? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Call them, ask them 6 what they'll do for a year. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I can. I thought 8 it was -- when I prepared this, I didn't realize we were 9 going to end up -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They probably had a rate 11 increase. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure they did. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Everybody else does. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The other thing under -- 15 I know it looks bad right now, but under Overtime, it was 16 at -- $43,000 was what was budgeted, and I cut that to 17 $35,000, even though currently we're $213, as of the end of 18 June, overdrawn in that line item. A lot of that -- and I 19 wish there was some some way we could separate out these, 20 but a lot of that, I have found, came from dispatchers. 21 Dispatchers' schedules were worked so that they were working 22 12-hour shifts for a week,, which means 48 hours a week. 23 Whoever had originally done that did not realize that -- or 24 whatever the oversight or for whatever reason, dispatchers 25 are totally civilian employees. We cannot work them over 40 134 1 hours in any 7-day period, according to F.S.L.A., so what's 2 happening is they were getting paid 8 hours overtime every 3 week, every dispatcher, and it ended up killing our 4 overtime. And the reason I figured that out, the Jail 5 Administrator was telling me, "Look, we're not doing that 6 much overtime in the jail." Now, if we do have an case 7 where you got an inmate in the hospital, we have a deputy to 8 do that. Some of that did hurt us this year, but a lot of 9 it, what I found out, was the dispatchers. So, in the 10 last month, I have redone the dispatchers' schedules to 11 where now they are working 40-hour weeks and 7-day work 12 period, and that's where that's changing. What we did 13 earlier on changing the records person to get them out of 14 dispatch and give me that seventh dispatch position is 15 taking care of that, so a lot of the overtime will go down, 16 so I feel pretty comfortable in cutting that overtime line 17 item. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Rusty, we talked about -- you 19 know, you and I talked about moving that into the Sheriff's 20 budget. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Personally, I don't know 22 if this -- if y'all want to try and look at that in this 23 budget year. The dispatchers' salary line items don't have 24 anything to do with the jail at all. They're not back there 25 in the jail. They're not jailers, they don't do jailer 135 1 duties. They are up in the front; they're dispatchers. 2 They're greeting the public at night. I don't know -- you 3 know, for how many years, whenever it was, it got set up, 4 but I just think that that whole part of dispatchers 5 shouldn't be in the jail's budget. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In the Sheriff's 7 budget? 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it should be in 9 the Sheriff's Office there, dispatchers. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. What line 11 is it? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's not -- it's 13 under Jailer Salaries. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Dispatcher Salaries is 16 all grouped under the same -- Deputies Salaries. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much would you be 18 removing and changing? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, currently, under 20 dispatchers, this year -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're talking about a 22 zero shift. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: However much, it is 24 just -- put it from one stack to the other. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: It would help one -- in one 136 1 respect, in that when you try to calculate daily -- daily 2 costs for running the jail, you have to eliminate the -- 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Dispatch. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: -- the dispatchers to make -- 5 to not inflate the cost of the -- of operation. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This year's dispatcher 7 salaries total $139,149. That does not count FICA or 8 anything else; that's just for dispatch salaries. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty good chunk. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, jailer salaries is 11 way under in the current budget because of those five 12 additional jailers that were given during the middle of the 13 budget. That does not reflect that. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we ought to 15 just do that, just move the dispatchers to the Sheriff's 16 Department. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, Tommy, we would 18 be -- should we create a new line, just dispatchers? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I think so. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Clear picture. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Dispatcher Salaries, a 22 new line under the Sheriff's Office. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And appropriate FICA. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, we're doing good; 137 1 this is wonderful. But, it is 4:37. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sorry, Buster. Inmate 3 medical -- Prisoner Medical, under 3 -- Line Item 333. I 4 left that at $32,000. Hopefully that will be enough. Judge 5 Henneke sat in on a meeting with us yesterday. I was 6 concerned that -- I don't feel that indigent care, as far as 7 the County's Indigent Care program at Sid Peterson Hospital, 8 is really picking up the tab on a lot of inmates that they 9 ought to be, so we had a meeting, trying to work with 10 Rochelle at the Sid Peterson Hospital and getting our nurses 11 to have -- to be in charge of that part of the program, and 12 getting all the paperwork filled out so if a person is 13 indigent, it does count for something. So, hopefully that's 14 enough, because this year we're going to be over, at the 15 rate we're going, in Prisoner Medical. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, under Nurses -- 17 106, Nurses, how many nurses do you have? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how much would 20 they get paid? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $31,200. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we don't have a 23 nurse's aide? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That we approved last 138 1 year? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, they were all -- 3 they're nurses. That's what happened when we went back and 4 tried to straighten some of that out. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, how well do I 6 remember that. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a -- and 8 hopefully we can address it in the salary stuff and that. 9 I really do -- if you call around, which I called around and 10 checked with private offices, private doctor's offices, a 11 hospital and that, and it -- the $31,200, which equals $15 12 an hour, is in a range, you know, on a nurse. And it's not 13 so much that I don't think that they deserve $31,200. It's 14 just way out of proportion. When a nurse makes more than a 15 Jail Administrator, I have a problem. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are those apples and apples, 17 though? Are you comparing the nurse's per-hour salaries? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: LVN's, just depending on 19 how long they've been around and the doctor. They don't -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, your jail nurses are -- 21 are LVN's? You compared LVN's, right? 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not -- no, sir. I 23 did -- some were RN's. They should have got more. We got 24 just kind of a general deal, "What do y'all pay nurses? " It 25 ranges anywhere from about $8 an hour up to $25 an hour. 139 1 Ours are getting $15, which I think, when they're -- when a 2 nurse is having to deal with inmates, you know, seven days a 3 week, I agree that she deserves some, but this is my 4 biggest -- the $31,200 is probably one of my biggest 5 problems I have out there, because it has really been kind 6 of a problem with jailers and deputies and everybody else 7 that say, Look, you know, we're out there, we're working 8 just as hard as a nurse is, and we're making, some of them, 9 $10,000 a year less. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they need to 11 mind their own business and do the job that they're hired to 12 do. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. It's just one 14 of these deals that I'm trying to get straightened out. 15 Hopefully in the salary talks, we can take care of that. 16 It's just -- it is hard for me, even as an administrator, to 17 agree to be paying a nurse more than I pay the Jail 18 Administrator. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not right. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: These nurses are both 22 out there at the same time? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, not at the same 24 time. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're kind of in 140 1 shifts? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They work different 3 shifts, okay. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is the jail 5 doctor? I can't see -- he's not on there? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's under the health budget. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County Health Officer or 9 something, has nothing to do with this. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not County Health Officer. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It used to be. They 12 used to -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's right. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I don't know. I 15 don't know what to do on that. That's why I'm trying to 16 shift some of those, like the indigent care stuff and the -- 17 and getting all that paperwork filled out and trying to 18 switch that over to the responsibilities of the nurses, take 19 it off some other ones that are overworked as it is. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Just for information, I'm 22 sure some of you don't know this, but the -- the law allows 23 the Sheriff to -- to take commissary monies from inmates to 24 reimburse the County for medical expenses, and they are 25 doing that. So, on the other side of this, you do have a 141 1 revenue stream -- somewhat of a revenue stream that -- that 2 can somewhat offset, you know, this increase. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: And that -- the reason that 5 I -- they were keeping that as a revenue stream is because 6 when we apply for -- for the tobacco funds, we have to 7 itemize all of these different types of revenues and 8 expenses for that purpose. So, it's easier for me, from a 9 reporting standpoint, to keep the revenue separate from -- 10 from expenses. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much is in that 12 fund? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Currently? About 14 $31,000. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's our new 16 chairs. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have got them at this 18 time checking with the -- the Jail Commission, with the 19 County Attorney, and trying to get some A.G.'s opinions on 20 exactly -- there's some items I would like to purchase out 21 of that fund that are inmate items, but some of them 22 necessarily don't qualify; some there's a question. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They have to be spent 24 strictly on the inmates, themselves? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, but you can buy 142 1 inmate uniforms, you can buy things like that. I think 2 inmate mattresses ought to be able to be bought out of that. 3 You know, that's inmate use. And right now, they're 4 currently saying they can't, and I understand that the jail 5 did buy some out of it. So, before I reimburse and take 6 some back out of ours, I want to try and get a ruling from 7 the A.G. oh, you know, why can't we purchase inmate 8 mattresses out of that fund? I think it should be able to 9 be done, so we're working on that. So, some of that fund 10 will get used. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions regarding 12 the jail budget? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None, other than, 14 Rusty, I think you did a great job with your presentation 15 here. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we going to talk 17 about jail maintenance? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That comes under Glenn. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I look at that 20 time sheet -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of it comes out of 22 ours, too, I guess. But I don't know what to do there. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Glenn will discuss that with 24 us. We made a decision to make sure that was part of the 25 jail budget for purposes of -- of the reimbursement and the 143 1 annual -- the daily expense that. Right, Tommy? We made a 2 decision last year to keep jail maintenance in the jail 3 budget, even though it really falls under the supervision 4 of -- of Glenn? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. Yeah, that's correct. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we'll let Mr. Holekamp 7 take that up when he takes up his budget. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One last note, I'd just 9 like for y'all to be aware of it. I had to pull it, just 10 'cause I wanted to know. Since Charlie Hicks -- when he 11 first took over and he started housing out-of-county inmates 12 and that from October to currently, we have billed out, as 13 far as billing the other counties for the number of inmates 14 that we've housed of theirs and that -- not all of this has 15 been received yet; it's -- some of them are behind in 16 payments or whatever -- $301,364.50 is what we have brought 17 in through out-of-county housing of inmates. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fantastic. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The County has also 20 brought in 11,000 -- this was as of April -- $11,246 on 21 inmate telephone service, our portion of it. The Social 22 Security reimbursement is $2,000. What we started doing is 23 notifying Social Security any time we have an inmate that is 24 receiving Social Security benefits. And their rules are, if 25 he's an inmate, those benefits get suspended. If the County 144 1 reports that, they get kind of an incentive-type deal for 2 it. So, we have gotten $2,000 there. And then, under -- 3 through other things, through our civil fees and -- and just 4 different stuff like that, the County has also brought in 5 $191,609. So, if you figure that up right now, we're 6 bringing in -- and this isn't traffic tickets or citations 7 that are given. We're bringing in close -- for the first 8 six most or whatever, seven months of this year, $350,000. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have a feel 10 for what the expenses are that offset against that revenue 11 budget? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the only one 13 that's concerning me right now -- and this is another thing 14 I noticed, in looking at the 9-month deal under inmate 15 meals -- prisoner meals, we only have 16 percent left, where 16 I was hoping we'd be at 25 percent. I haven't paid enough 17 attention myself, per se, to see exactly what it is they're 18 ordering and how they're ordering it. We have -- the cook 19 handles this. I'm going to start getting involved with 20 that. I spoke with the Pam, the Jail Administrator about 21 that this morning. We did up it a little bit from -- but 22 from what I can tell and what Tommy has figured up on our 23 daily cost, we're charging $35 a day for out-of-county 24 housing, and the last figures the Jail Administrator gave me 25 was $37 a day that we're -- we're paying. But, of course, 145 1 that, I think, includes the bond debt, the salaries, all 2 this kind of stuff that we're taking care of. You know, we 3 equal out and average out to about $37 a day. I think it 4 might be advantageous, come October 1 or the first of the 5 year, whenever, to possibly change our out-of-county housing 6 fees from $35 to $40 a day. Most counties house anywhere 7 from 45 to 50. We're trying to help smaller counties around 8 that don't have other means, and I think $40 a day will 9 definitely be a little bit above break-even on it and help 10 other counties making revenue. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: I might want to send your 12 Jail Administrator and your cook out to the Juvenile 13 Detention Facility talk to with Tanna, 'cause their food 14 budget is next to nothing, because they have a lot of 15 sources for donated food, surplus food. And they may be 16 peculiar to juveniles, as opposed to adults, but you might 17 just make that connection to see if she has any tips as to 18 how to reduce the food budget. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And, back years ago -- I 20 just haven't at this point -- I've only been in office since 21 April 1 -- gotten into a whole lot of this, but years ago, I 22 know we used to go to San Antonio and get a lot of the 23 government subsidy-type foods and that, which saved us 24 greatly on inmate meals. And, I am very much for getting to 25 that point and starting to look at that again. I don't 146 1 believe they get that any more. I don't know, I haven't 2 seen it since I've been there, and I just think we need to 3 start looking at that. You know, food is a -- is a very, 4 very important part in running a -- good, smooth jail, 5 because if you don't, you know, feed them right or you don't 6 do something right, you find you can cut it down to bare 7 bones and feed them just what is exactly required by the 8 dietitian, but then your problems are going to increase 100 9 percent in that jail, which is going to end up costing you 10 in the long run. You need to find a happy medium in there, 11 feed them decent meals without splurging and all this kind 12 of stuff. Just economical, decent meals, where you'll save 13 yourself a whole lot of problems, whether it be lawsuits or 14 just fights and everything else inside that jail. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe by next spring 16 we'll have our garden in; they can get them fresh veggies 17 out of our own garden. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You've mentioned that a 19 couple times. That is something I would truly like to look 20 at. That's another thing I'm going to ask the A.G.'s about 21 some those funds, if they can be spent to help assist in 22 implementing a garden-type situation. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 24 comments for the Sheriff on any of his budgets? Just from 25 my curiosity, Sheriff, did you meet with Frank Cruz this 147 1 morning? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I did not. I had 3 court. He didn't -- he called two days ago, and I was over 4 here in court, and then he didn't call back and I had no 5 message to meet him, and then I had court in Fredericksburg 6 this morning and testified. And the office secretary -- I 7 mentioned -- pulled my calendar out and looked at it, and 8 said he hasn't come by, so I just need to make contact with 9 him again and get that to see where we go. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: For the Court's information, 11 Frank Cruz is an individual who does inventories, and he's 12 someone that was going to come and talk to the Sheriff about 13 the scope of the inventory we're trying to get information 14 on. I think Tommy has got someone else that -- 15 MR. TOMLINSON: They were -- I think the 16 Sheriff's talked with him. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We played phone tag for 18 two weeks, 'cause he's out of town a lot. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Sheriff. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: We stand adjourned until 9:30 23 in the morning. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 (Workshop concluded at 4:52 p.m.) 148 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 22nd day of September, 8 2000. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25