1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Wednesday, July 12, 2000 11 9:30 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Wednesday, July 12, 2000, at 9:30 a.m., a budget 2 workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 (Commissioner Letz not present for morning worshop.) 8 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is now 9:30. We'll 10 convene this budget workshop of the Kerr County 11 Commissioners Court. Scheduled for discussion at this time 12 is the County Treasurer's budget request. Ada, do you have 13 anything you want to tell us in particular about the 14 request? Or -- 15 MS. MARTELON: Nothing out of the ordinary. 16 I think she explained to me -- and I didn't get do work on 17 this particular budget myself. We are within the same 18 budgeted amount as last fiscal year, and what she has done 19 in order to do this is decrease the amounts for several 20 items. And she has Capital Outlay -- she's got $1,500. 21 She's thinking we need a new printer. I was just telling 22 Tommy, we do have a lot of problems. There aren't any 23 significant changes, really. What she's done is to 24 decrease, like I say, some of the line items in order to 25 provide a step increase for the deputy, and at some point, 3 1 because our part-timer is working more hours than she should 2 without benefits, she should be having retirement. So, I 3 think she's thinking along those lines, retirement for 4 Jackie. And our workload keeps increasing. At some point, 5 I think she's thinking we need a full-time person. This is 6 all have to say. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: She points out in her notes 8 if the census reveals that Kerr County is more than 50,000 9 in population, there are more duties imposed on the office 10 by law. 11 MS. MARTELON: That's right. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which will probably require 13 innovation of the other assistant to a full-time position. 14 We won't have that until next year, so just keep that in 15 mind. Does anyone have any questions about the request from 16 from the Treasurer's office? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't. I have a 18 comment to make in regards to the printer. I have been 19 around their printer many times, and it's a joy just to go 20 in and watch this thing. They got it out of a bubble gum 21 machine -- was it bubble gum or Cracker Jacks? I can't 22 remember. 23 MS. MARTELON: One or the other. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's real cute. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or is it held 4 1 together with bubble gum? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Baling wire. And 3 they -- and I agree, they need a new printer, big time. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 5 MS. MARTELON: It's kind of frustrating. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about copy 7 machine? I thought you were going to -- 8 MS. MARTELON: We have a copy machine, and we 9 love it. It's wonderful. We do a volume of copying, as 10 well. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the -- the request for 13 copy -- lease copier has gone up about $800. Is that to get 14 a new one, or is that for -- 15 MS. MARTELON: We have a new one. I don't 16 know what it costs us to lease it, but whatever it is -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's -- I think 18 that's the cost -- current cost -- 19 MS. MARTELON: Uh-huh. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- to lease that 21 machine. Is the number that you put in for Capital Outlay, 22 is that sufficient to cover that printer? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I would like to address the 24 printer, if we can. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 5 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy wants to say something 2 about the printer, too. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Go ahead and finish what 4 you're doing. 5 MS. MARTELON: I was going to say, I don't 6 know if $1,500 is going to do it, but it's a starting place. 7 I mean, we don't actually -- we haven't actually priced any, 8 so we couldn't tell you a dollar amount. Tommy would better 9 be able to tell you that, I think. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- 11 MS. MARTELON: I don't know the what the 12 cost -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- put a question 14 mark by the total. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy, what do you have? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I -- I kind of -- I 17 believe that -- that the problem could be building noise, 18 with the construction going on. Because my office has the 19 same identical printer. We can send a print job from -- 20 from the system that she would put on her printer to mine, 21 and it prints perfect. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Hmm. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: And so -- but my printer in 24 my office is cabled from a different place. It's cabled 25 from -- from the basement. Of course, we have -- we have a 6 1 hard-wire connection from the server to what's called a 2 concentrator, and we're cabled off of that concentrator to 3 various parts of the courthouse, and my office and the 4 District Clerk's Office. Everything -- everything prints 5 perfect on -- on that printer. I have run new cable. We 6 bought some shielded Cat 5 -- Category 5 cabling, ran it 7 direct, and we're -- and it solved the problem somewhat, but 8 there is such a thing as -- as building noise affecting 9 transmission, especially if it's around, you know, 10 electrical. And, so, I would -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You mean it's doing it 12 through Cat 5 cabling? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. And so I don't think 14 it's the printer. That printer is brand-new. We just 15 bought it about -- well, less than that, 'cause what we 16 did -- what we did, what actually happened was we gave -- we 17 had a printer that worked in our office. We gave them our 18 printer, and then we bought another one. Isn't that what 19 happened? 20 MS. MARTELON: Yeah, you gave us yours and 21 you bought one. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: So, I mean, they're 23 identical. And -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How hard would it be 25 to switch the printers and run a test? Switch the printers. 7 1 MR. TOMLINSON: We have done that. We have 2 done that. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And you still had 4 print problems? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: In theirs, in that office. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I mean, if you 7 physically switch those two printers -- 8 MS. MARTELON: We have. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You still have the 10 problem? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Still have a problem. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, it's not a printer 13 problem. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: No, that's what I'm saying. 15 It's not a printer problem. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I didn't realize we 17 had done that. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ada, go ahead. 19 MS. MARTELON: Nothing we have done -- we 20 have had printer problems since before we were doing 21 remodeling, and I don't say that it's not -- and it probably 22 isn't the printer, but something is definitely wrong. 23 Nothing works for very long. It will work for a little bit, 24 maybe a half a day, maybe an hour or two, and then we're 25 having problems again, and it's real frustrating. 8 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Wired the same way you 2 got your wires? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: (Nodded.). 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How much does that 5 cost? I mean, coming from the basement to -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: There's no room. There's no 7 room from the basement. I don't have a -- I don't have a 8 spare port on that concentrator. Hopefully, the -- the 9 redesigned system will help -- will help that. I know -- I 10 know that I've had -- I've had the same -- I had the same 11 types of problems in -- in the District Clerk's Office 12 before we did the rewiring of the upstairs. Since -- since, 13 you know, we went in and rewired all this part of the 14 courthouse, including the upstairs, since that rewire, I 15 have not had too many problems. Before that, I mean -- I 16 mean, some of the most unusual things would happen, and -- 17 in that office. I mean, just overnight. And, always, I 18 think, it was the wiring, and -- upstairs, the power. 19 And -- and I think that since we've rewired, I believe that 20 that proved my point, that that was the problem. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have we rewired the 22 Treasurer's printer? You said -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I'm talking about 24 electrical. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh. 9 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Electrical rewire. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Got you. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We were getting some 4 interference through -- through the electrical circuits, so 5 it acts -- it acts like, to me, that -- that it loses some 6 communication at various points through -- through the 7 process. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's obvious to me, at 9 least, you know, at this point that -- that we don't know 10 what the problem is. I mean, that's -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Not for sure. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the problem, 13 and it sounds like to me it's not a printer problem, but 14 that we may have another problem that's going to cost some 15 money to fix. What I would suggest, perhaps, we do, since 16 we've got some time, is that we leave this here for now, 17 because that money may have to go for some other 18 expenditure, and between now and the time we finalize the 19 budget, I think we need to get some real expert help in here 20 and see if we can figure out what the real problem is. You 21 know, can we do that -- shouldn't we be able to do that 22 through our maintenance agreement with -- and get some help 23 out of Computer Services or somebody? Have they 24 troubleshot? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, they have not. 10 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They're pretty good at 2 that kind of stuff. I mean, Burt Bolton, particularly. If 3 we can get him personally down here, he's pretty good at 4 troubleshooting that kind of -- I'm just thinking, maybe we 5 ought to spend a couple hours -- that's 45 bucks an hour. 6 We might spend a couple hours and solve the problem. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I really don't -- I really 8 don't think that it's -- it's a printer problem. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. No, that's what 11 I'm saying. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I mean -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But to troubleshoot -- 14 I'm talking about troubleshooting the cabling. They can 15 measure noise levels, they can -- we can get some expert 16 input before we make a final decision. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What we do, we may 19 have to spend money for shielding for the electrical -- the 20 electrical wiring. We may have to spend some money, so I'm 21 saying, just leave this here as a placeholder for now, and 22 before we finalize the budget, I would hope that we can have 23 an answer to what the real problem is. If it's not a 24 printer problem, then we may have to spend this money, or 25 some of it, to do a refix. 11 1 MS. MARTELON: Poor Tommy. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would suggest that 3 we take that approach, and we can defer a final decision on 4 that. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's a good idea. 6 Any other questions about anything in the County Treasurer's 7 budget? 8 MS. MARTELON: I do have one other thing that 9 she asked me to kind of maybe remind you. We did request 10 space for our office downstairs at some future date, and she 11 asked me to mention that we're wall-to-wall. Would you 12 please consider that at whatever point it's appropriate? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Noted. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Got that on your list? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I do, as a matter 16 of fact. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Jannett, do you 18 want to go early? 19 MS. PIEPER: Sure. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: County Clerk is Tab Number 3. 21 MS. PIEPER: Okay. We'll start with the 22 General. 23 (Discussion off the record.). 24 MS. PIEPER: I'll just go down, basically, 25 line item by line item of what's been changed, unless you 12 1 want to do it differently. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Fire away. 3 MS. PIEPER: Okay. Deputy salary. I did 4 make a mistake in that figure. That should be $16,757. I 5 had looked at an old schedule, but I am requesting one new 6 employee for the probate court. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What line? 8 MS. PIEPER: 1704. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Sixteen -- how 10 much, Jannett? 11 MS. PIEPER: $16,757. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 13 MS. PIEPER: The next change comes at the 14 FICA, which I have no control over that, and the insurance. 15 Those are both increases. The retirement, Barbara made a 16 comment yesterday that that had gone down to 7.62, so that 17 can be reduced $1,890. The next line item is the Bonds and 18 Insurance. I have increased that $767. That's iffy. I 19 have not been able to get an exact figure from the insurance 20 company on my bonds. One of them is a 4-year bond, and then 21 the other two is annually. The last budget, we had not 22 budgeted enough and it increased that amount, so that's why 23 I increased that amount. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a 25 question, just for fun here. What do you mean, you can't 13 1 get an answer from the insurance company how much the bond 2 is? 3 MS. PIEPER: Because every time I call, I 4 keep getting two different figures. I -- I don't think I'm 5 making him understand what I'm trying to ask him, and the 6 only thing I'm asking him is how much money do I need to 7 budget for my bond and -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We still deal with 9 Furman? 10 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, he's been doing 12 this for am years. 13 MS. PIEPER: Right. 14 MS. RECTOR: I didn't have a problem with 15 mine. He gave me a quote as to what my 4-year bond was 16 going to be this next go-round, and my crime prevention 17 bonds. 18 MS. PIEPER: Well, I thought I had it all 19 taken care of until I got a bill. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember we did -- 21 we made a change. 22 MS. PIEPER: Right, a budget amendment. So 23 then I called him again at that point, and when I got that 24 bill, I go, "What's going on?". 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 1 MS. PIEPER: Anyway, so to be safe, that's 2 why I figured that amount. The next increase is postage, 3 and that's just an increase for all of our court notices 4 going out. We're getting more defendants. I reduced the 5 Office Supplies by $1,000, Photocopy Supplies by $1,000, the 6 Dockets and Forms by $1,000. Telephone, I have increased 7 that to $400. The ladies in the Land Department are 8 requesting a cordless phone or some kind of a headset phone. 9 They're worried about the general public tripping over their 10 cords when they've got them strung out over at the counter, 11 because they're looking up something for somebody on the 12 telephone, not realizing that John Q. Public is fixing to 13 walk by and possibly trip over the cord, because it's 14 happened several times. Luckily, no one's been hurt, but 15 till they fix that problem, they're requesting some kind of 16 a cordless phone. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a -- $400 is a lot for 18 a cordless phone. 19 MS. PIEPER: I called Kerrville Telephone 20 Company, and I don't remember who I spoke to. He said just 21 estimate $400, so I did. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Last one I bought was 80, 90 23 bucks or something like that. 24 MS. PIEPER: I don't know if it's due to the 25 phone system we have. I mean, I don't know. 15 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It might have 2 something to do with that and the type of phone system. 3 MS. PIEPER: So -- so I called, I spoke with 4 the gentleman that takes care of the courthouse. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 6 MS. PIEPER: Machine Repair, I decreased that 7 by $500. And Lease Copier, I increased that in the meter 8 usage and the maintenance cost for the three copiers. And, 9 for the next two years, I believe that line item will be 10 going up slightly. Miscellaneous, I decreased that $100. 11 Computer Hardware, I decreased that $100, but yet I still 12 need two surge protectors, and I figured $50 each that will 13 come out of that line item. Computer Software, I decreased 14 it $165, but I also figured in antiviruses for all of our 15 computers, which they do not have right now that I'm aware 16 of. Software Maintenance has gone down slightly. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Now, that's a jaw-dropper. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you sure? 19 MS. PIEPER: I think so. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is history, boys. 21 MS. PIEPER: Well, I have that little thing 22 that they send out yearly that I went by, and then I talked 23 with Tommy on it, as well. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is Software, 25 Inc.? 16 1 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unbelievable. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Maybe that Come-to-Jesus 4 meeting I had with our local Republican out at the jail did 5 some good. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe so. 7 MS. PIEPER: Computer Supplies, I increased 8 that $500, and that is our ribbons, our -- all of our green 9 bar paper that our bookkeeper uses, our warrant papers, 10 probate papers. It's just -- actually, what it is is 11 computer supplies, and I have increased that by $500. The 12 Capital Outlay, I decreased it $1,480, but I'm still 13 requesting two computers at $1,100 each with Microsoft 14 Office at $360 each, and I'm going to use one of those at my 15 front counter for my administrative clerk and one in 16 bookkeeping. Both of those do several monthly reports, and 17 I think a decent computer would be much easier. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Maybe our geek can 19 install those. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's right. We might even 21 have one of those already available. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe she may have 23 gotten in too late. 24 MS. PIEPER: We'll use that one out there if 25 y'all don't have a place for it. 17 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Look out. Yesterday 3 you got here a little late, y'all get a newer one. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Computer's free, but 5 the table's 500 bucks. 6 MS. PIEPER: I don't need a table. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any specific 8 questions about the general budget for the -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well-done budget. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you buy computers 12 last year? 13 MS. PIEPER: Yes, I did. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many? 15 MS. PIEPER: Three, I believe. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three. And there's 17 two more. 18 MS. PIEPER: Each year we will buy a couple 19 until -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 21 MS. PIEPER: -- we get it filled. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think with the 23 people who have to deal with the public, in particular, 24 where there's a lot of records involved, I think we're going 25 to see that kind of thing over the next several years. 18 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And -- 3 MS. PIEPER: Well, the one -- the computer 4 that I will put at the front counter will also do our birth 5 certificates as well, from that computer. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 7 MS. PIEPER: And then if somebody just comes 8 in and requests a document that we have scanned, that she 9 can just print out one right there also. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the one thing 11 that's good to see is the total, on what the total impact 12 is, and we do manual -- and this was done, obviously, on a 13 spreadsheet. 14 MS. PIEPER: Yes, it is. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Easier to make changes 16 and see what the impact is very quickly. 17 MS. PIEPER: Right. Since I did the -- 18 changed the deputy salary and that retirement, the general 19 budget I had proposed is a $21,680 increase from last year. 20 But I desperately need that probate deputy, guys. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are you sure you need a 22 probate deputy? 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 25 MS. PIEPER: You just see Carol on -- in 19 1 Probate Court. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm talking about workload. 3 MS. PIEPER: I'm talking about workload, too. 4 We really do -- we need another person. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are you going 6 to put that person? 7 MS. PIEPER: Put her at the front counter 8 right now. That way, she'll be close to all the probate 9 files. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You almost have them 11 stacked on top of each other now. 12 MS. PIEPER: I have a wish list. Would you 13 like to see it? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: When we're done. 16 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another time. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go to Election if we're 19 done with the General. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Give me that bottom 21 line one more -- 21-what? 22 MS. PIEPER: $21,680. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $21,680. 24 MS. PIEPER: Okay. On elections, I'm 25 decreasing the Ballot Expense by $2,000. The Employee 20 1 Training, I am increasing that $325. Right now there's only 2 two of us in the office that go to our election school 3 training. I need a third one, because Nadene and I get so 4 wrapped up, I need a third person at least to stay at the 5 office to answer all the incoming questions from the general 6 public that's walking in asking about election stuff. So, 7 it would be helpful if I had a third person that had more 8 knowledge. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry, you lost 10 me. My mind got hung up in the ballot expense. You're 11 going to decrease that by $2,000 because of off-election 12 year? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Actually, it's not an off -- 14 MS. PIEPER: No, it's not, but I don't think 15 we need -- I mean, I don't think we need the $20,000. I 16 think $18,000 will do it. We had budgeted $20,000 last 17 year. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. Okay, I 19 see. 20 MS. PIEPER: Just decreasing that by $2,000. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then you went into a 22 person. 23 MS. PIEPER: Then I went into the next line 24 item, which is Employee Training. I am increasing that by 25 $325. 21 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that you can train 2 some -- 3 MS. PIEPER: So that I can have another 4 deputy attend school, the election training school. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I see what 6 you're talking about. 7 MS. PIEPER: I mean, I can come back and I 8 can train and I can train, but they get so much better 9 effect if they're sitting there at the election school with 10 me. I think they can get more out of it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $325, that -- that 12 covers a hotel rooms and meals and -- 13 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and registration 15 fees and all that? 16 MS. PIEPER: Mm-hmm. 17 MS. PIEPER: The next line item is Election 18 Supplies. That increases $400, and that is to replace one 19 broken ballot box and to acquire around 400 mail ballots. 20 The mail ballots are 95 cents each. Line Item 430, Notices, 21 I increased that $450, because a change in the law that 22 we -- we are required to publish the notice of election now, 23 and that is almost the size of a regular sheet of paper. 24 456 line item is Machine Repair, and that's just my yearly 25 maintenance and repairs on the ballot scanner. 22 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's up $1,250? 2 MS. PIEPER: Yes, that is basically just the 3 cost of -- for the travel down here and them to come in and 4 maintain it. If there's something broken on it, that will 5 be extra. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do they come in and 7 fine-tune those scanners before each election? 8 MS. PIEPER: Last year was, I believe, the 9 first time they did it, when we were having so much trouble. 10 And there was something broke on it, because we went over 11 budget; it cost $2,354 last year to repair it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 13 MS. PIEPER: And then we've ran two elections 14 since then, and they worked fine. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can I ask you a 16 question on 210 before you complete it, Jannett? 17 MS. PIEPER: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is -- just a 19 question, what do you anticipate your ballot expense to be 20 for the November election? Just curious. 21 MS. PIEPER: I don't anticipate we'll have as 22 much of a voter turnout. As far as the actual figure, it's 23 hard to say, because they charge so much for each program 24 and ballot type, and so that's why I don't think it will be 25 over $18,000. 23 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MS. PIEPER: I think the -- in the primary, I 3 think it was around $17,000 that it cost each of the County 4 Chairs to go. On Line Item 485, the Conferences, I want to 5 increase that by $75, and that's just the increasing cost 6 for the registration, meals, and mileage for me. And I will 7 have no Capital Outlay this year for elections, due to the 8 fact that our machines are now paid in full. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy, is the ballot box a 10 Capital Outlay for Election Supply? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think so. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, just curious. Any 13 questions? Okay. Then let's go to Records Management. 14 Moving right along. 15 MS. PIEPER: On the Line Item 202, the 16 Insurance, I am informed that that is increasing. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Insurance on? 18 MS. PIEPER: On just the deputies. I left 19 their salaries, their FICA, but I understand the insurance 20 has gone up, so that is actually up $629. That is figured 21 in that, that 608 -- or $6,809. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 23 MS. PIEPER: Includes our increase in the 24 insurance. Our retirement, since Barbara said it was 7.62, 25 we can decrease that to $2,758 -- you look confused, Judge. 24 1 Did I lose you? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, I'm -- 3 MS. PIEPER: Okay. On the Microfilm Supplies 4 and Film Processing, I have eliminated those, and I'll tell 5 you why in a minute. On the Machine Repair, I dropped that 6 down to $500. Maintenance Contracts, I have dropped that 7 down to $2,300, and that's just for the maintenance on our 8 reader-printers only. Capital Outlay's the big one. I am 9 requesting one scanning station and two computers. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. And, the way I 11 read this is that you're replacing the microfilm supplies 12 and film processing with a scanning system? 13 MS. PIEPER: So it's completely scanning. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Would you scan it and store 15 it in a -- what's your legal requirement, then? How do you 16 have to store it? 17 MS. PIEPER: We can store it on CD or disk. 18 The -- we have to -- if we steer to those, every ten years 19 we will have to go and recopy it. I talked with the 20 gentleman from the State Library, and he said that we could 21 download once or twice a year for storage, but Tommy does 22 backup so often that we would continuously be backing it up. 23 If, for some reason, something should happen and we would 24 ever need the film or fish, the State Library -- if we send 25 them our CD, they would produce our film -- our fish at 2 25 1 cents per image, which is an extremely good price. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: How, then -- how, then, does 3 the public access these records? Are these the land records 4 and everything? 5 MS. PIEPER: They're everything. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's at the -- 7 MS. PIEPER: From our view stations that's 8 set up in our office. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're talking about 10 records moving forwards, or are you going to recapture 11 everything that you've got? 12 MS. PIEPER: I want to do everything we have, 13 and eventually it will eliminate all those rolls of books in 14 that office. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long do you think 16 that will take you? 17 MS. PIEPER: Long time, but if I start now, 18 hopefully I can see it through. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the Sheriff has a real 20 need for document copying, comparable thing. We might be 21 able to work some sort of a deal -- I'm not exactly sure how 22 it would work, whether we could cooperate on, perhaps, a, 23 you know, part-time person or two to come in and work on 24 backlog in both places. 25 MS. PIEPER: Mm-hmm. 26 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we just made 2 two or three more cases for a computer geek, didn't we? 3 MS. PIEPER: It's hard to have somebody sit 4 there eight hours a day doing this. You've got to have -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's why I said part-time. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, this is where 7 government is headed. I mean, this is -- and particularly 8 if we do this at an actual overall cost reduction, it just 9 makes all kinds of sense. We've got better control, better 10 backup, it's faster access -- much faster access. 11 MS. PIEPER: It's better quality, too. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And better quality. 13 You don't have -- you don't have a bunch of re-, re-, 14 reproduced documents. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I was noticing, though, 16 Jannett, that the quotes you gave us from Software Group was 17 $16,109, but the cost is $16,809. 18 MS. PIEPER: Well, that -- what did I do? 19 I'm also asking -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Talking about three, I see. 21 MS. PIEPER: $16,109, and two computers at 22 $1,100 each. Those do not need any kind of Microsoft Office 23 2000. Those will basically be for the public to come in and 24 view our -- 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are these -- this $16,109 is 27 1 from Software Group, correct? 2 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Have you checked on -- with 4 State Systems to see if comparable equipment is available at 5 a lesser price? 6 MS. PIEPER: No, I haven't, because I don't 7 know enough about these systems to do that. I -- last year, 8 it was -- the last time we bought a scanning station, I 9 believe it was close to $30,000. Is that -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't remember how much it 11 was. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, when we get down to 14 that, we're just talking about allocating funds. Now, when 15 we get down to actual purchasing, we're going to have to 16 find some mechanism of getting on the web and seeing if we 17 can compare apples and apples and see what we can come up 18 with, but I certainly -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Our geek's going to be 20 busy. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Geek/Purchasing Agent. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: There's no question this is 23 the the direction that we want to go. 24 MS. PIEPER: Well, and by doing this, we're 25 going to be -- right now we're fishing and rolling and 28 1 scanning and keeping, and it's ridiculous. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I agree. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, you know, we've 4 been talking about this for years. 5 MS. PIEPER: Right. I want to do something 6 about it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, seems like -- 8 well, and I don't doubt that you are going to. I see us 9 finally getting in. But Pat said all these same things 10 years ago, that we're going to eliminate all those boxes and 11 get everything -- seemed like to me we started out with a 12 fish, and we've changed programs three or four times, trying 13 to get everything in the records, that maybe we'll get it 14 done this time. I'm all for it. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Initially got to scan 16 it, though. That's the only way to -- you're going to have 17 the capacity to be able to run realtime operations at the 18 same time you're doing the backup. 19 MS. PIEPER: I have one lady that is 20 part-time right now, and she has been working on old 21 criminal, and I think she's up to -- to 1986 or '87. And we 22 have been able to literally call the Maintenance Department 23 and say, you know, we need this box, this box, and this box 24 and this box destroyed. So, our back shelf that we have had 25 that has been jam-packed -- I mean, you can actually see a 29 1 good dent in it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jannett, in 4 anticipation of going into this technology, you're 5 eliminating the microfilming and that process. 6 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So there's -- 8 MS. PIEPER: So, therefore -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're covering a 10 $15,000 expense right there. 11 MS. PIEPER: Right. So if -- you know, if we 12 don't get the scanning approved, then we're going to have to 13 continue to fish and -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. I just wanted 15 to bring that point out. 16 MS. PIEPER: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not an add 18 thing; it's changing direction. 19 MS. PIEPER: Normally, we would sell our fish 20 to Kerrville Title, and I have spoke with them and -- and 21 with Tommy, and they can literally hook in with the 22 telephone line to us, at their expense, and then that way we 23 don't have to go through that burdensome process either. 24 And then it's -- right now we are averaging anywhere from 25 $300 to $500 a month from selling this to them for their 30 1 access, to be able to view our stuff. We can charge them -- 2 we can still charge them a monthly fee of $500 or whatever. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. Anyone have any 4 more questions about the records management? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's the way 6 to go, really. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's clearly the way to go. 8 You said something about a wish list. Do you have a wish 9 list you want to pass out? 10 MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Now, the -- the numbers I 12 gave everybody yesterday on wish list do not include this, 13 because I did not have this in order to include it, so the 14 total continues to rise. 15 MS. PIEPER: And my wish list is very simple. 16 I am getting so many requests for credit cards, so I would 17 like a credit card swipe machine in the office. And I have 18 talked to only one company, and this is the figures that 19 they gave me. The terminal cost, we can either do $49.95 a 20 month for 48 months -- and this is like leasing; after that, 21 then we would have to redo our lease -- or we can just pay 22 the $1,295 cash for the three years, and then start over 23 after that. If it's a Visa or Mastercard, from what I 24 understand, they'll -- we'll get charged $1.59 per cent for 25 every transaction, and then they charge us 25 cents, and 31 1 then for a monthly statement fee, they charge us $9.95. And 2 then, if it's a debit card, where that comes directly out of 3 the person's bank account, it's a 39-cent transaction. But, 4 in reading the Local Government Code, 132.007(c), it appears 5 that the Commissioners Court can set either a flat rate, not 6 to exceed $5 for each payment transaction, or not to exceed 7 5 percent of the amount of the fine and court costs or 8 whatever. So, we can still recover some of this cost. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That can cover most of 10 it. You might even make a profit. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is Russ collecting anything 12 with credit cards now? 13 MS. PIEPER: Russ is doing just the County 14 Court at Law fines and court costs. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I know, but is he using 16 credit cards? 17 MS. PIEPER: Oh, yeah, he is using it. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there any way we can tab 19 in to his -- 20 MS. PIEPER: I asked him about that, and that 21 is just over the phone only. And when somebody comes up to 22 the front counter and wants a birth certificate or marriage 23 license or something, it's too much trouble to pick up the 24 phone and dial that 1-800 number and tie up my phone line 25 and let that person do -- punch in all those dad-gum 32 1 numbers. I mean, it's much easier for them just to whip out 2 a credit card, hand it to me, and me swipe it and go about 3 our business. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe Russ could tap 5 into her operation. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what I'm saying. If 7 both departments are doing credit card operations, we 8 shouldn't have two separate maintenance -- shouldn't have 9 two separate agreements. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we should have 11 a Purchasing Agent -- Purchasing Agent look into -- 12 MS. PIEPER: It's my understanding -- and I 13 have not looked at the agreement. The program that -- I 14 believe it's called Audio Tech. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so. 16 MS. PIEPER: It's my understanding that as 17 long as we're using them, we're not supposed to go with 18 another credit card company, so I have -- and we're on a 19 month-to-month basis with that credit card company, so I 20 have no problem in terminating them and getting something 21 decent. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: See, I'm not aware of a 23 credit card arrangement having been approved by 24 Commissioners Court, so -- 25 MS. PIEPER: I don't know. I just -- I have 33 1 a -- 2 MR. TOMLINSON: We did. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: With Russ' operation? That's 4 right, we did. 5 MS. PIEPER: I don't know if I have it with 6 me, but it does state a month-to-month basis. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Well, all right. 8 MS. PIEPER: And then I'd like to start a 9 yearly program to restore the old books by deacidifying each 10 page and then encapsulating each page in a mylar for 11 permanent -- most of these old Commissioners Courts minutes, 12 the original marriage licenses from the 1800's, and then we 13 also have some civil cases that are declared historical 14 value that, you know, we have to keep. And by doing this a 15 couple of -- a couple of books each year or something, that 16 way it doesn't break us that bad. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 18 MS. PIEPER: So I'm guessing $3,000 to 19 $5,000. I haven't talked to very many vendors on it for an 20 actual price, but, you know -- 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Grant money? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there any kind of 24 grant money on old, historical documents? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might be. 34 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Maybe the Texas 2 Historical Commission. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Check with the 4 Historical Commission and see. Might be. 5 MS. PIEPER: I don't know. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 7 MS. PIEPER: But, you know, like the 8 Commissioners Court minutes, we've got books and books where 9 they used to literally hand-write. They're permanent. And 10 the more people that flip through them, the worse those 11 pages are looking. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you do with 13 them? I don't know, exactly. 14 MS. PIEPER: What do I do with them? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, what would you do? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Deacidify. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Deacidify? Is that 18 preserve? 19 MS. PIEPER: Each page. Yes, each page is 20 put into some kind of deacidifying solution, and it takes 21 all the acid out of the paper, and then they're put in into 22 some kind of a sealed page. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just like your 24 driver's license, it's a -- it's a mylar heated deal. What 25 that does is -- it's what makes piper turn brown. It just 35 1 takes the stuff out of it. 2 MS. PIEPER: Some of them are so dark that 3 you can't Xerox them. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Keeps them from 5 continuing to oxidate and get brittle and break up. 6 MS. PIEPER: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Expensive process. 8 MS. PIEPER: I have some books that are 9 just -- you know, they'll just crumble if you touch them. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 11 MS. PIEPER: And then -- this goes back to 12 Ada; she's not here now. I want that office space back 13 there if they get to move downstairs, 'cause that was once 14 part of the County Clerk's office. I would like to try to 15 consolidate the courts in the office, and I think by doing 16 that we would get better -- we'd be able to help each other. 17 And I think the outcome of the work production would be 18 better, and then defendants and attorneys and whatever 19 wouldn't have to be standing in line quite as bad. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Look at the space 21 guru. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm the space guru. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Space Commissioner. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Space Commissioner. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- maybe we'd say 36 1 no to that and say no to you to encourage you along to get 2 all those boxes moved out back there and use that space as 3 another part of the office. 4 MS. PIEPER: That would be great, but it's 5 going to take us time to get it done. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Killing time here 7 today. 8 MS. PIEPER: Well, I'm killing time in here. 9 I have deputies in there doing it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just teasing. I'm 11 teasing with you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anything else? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just need more 14 space; you don't care if it's on the front side or the back 15 side? 16 MS. PIEPER: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think you -- you 19 legitimately raise an issue here as to the -- to rearrange 20 your office. The office is as it was presented to you, and 21 it would have probably been very functional. 22 MS. PIEPER: Yeah, way back when. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All you were doing was with 24 books. Now that you've got more computerized, I think it's 25 timely for you to take a look at the work flow and your 37 1 space needs at the same time, so this is the time to do it. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good presentation. 3 MS. PIEPER: Thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Gentlemen, what's your 7 pleasure? Do you want to take a break and come back at 8 10:00, or do you want push through or -- Tommy will take two 9 minutes, three minutes, maybe? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Maybe not that long. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's the -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, let's move 13 on. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's go. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I would like to -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: He's on Tab 10. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Before I start on mine, I 18 would like to go back to 409. I was thinking about this 19 yesterday after the meeting, and we -- we talked about the 20 Computer Administrator. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About what, Tommy? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Computer Administrator. And 23 we -- we put it in the Commissioners Court budget. Within 24 the next year, two for sure, I -- we're going to have to 25 change our accounting system to -- to meet with Gazman 34. 38 1 (sic) What Gazman 34 is doing is functionalizing the 2 reporting of governmental entities. And, when I thought 3 about that, I don't think that -- that this person is really 4 an administrative person. I think -- I think it's more of a 5 support person, so what I would like to do is -- is have 6 that person in Nondepartmental, rather than -- than the 7 Commissioners Court. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For budget. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You're talking about 11 for the budget. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Because I've seen some 13 samples of reporting, and what -- what it does is -- is, 14 instead of having categories in your financial statements, 15 as we've seen them in the past, they -- they're more 16 functional, and they -- and we -- we have to -- you'll have 17 to combine departments to go to -- like, for instance, for 18 law enforcement, courts, different -- maybe even different 19 types of courts, administration. And then, separate from 20 that are the departments that are what I would call "support 21 group," and so I -- rather than having to separate those at 22 a later date, I'd rather go ahead and do it now and have -- 23 have it by itself somewhere. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Could that individual 25 legitimately be part of a Purchasing Department? 39 1 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Functionally, I don't 3 think that -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: You get into difficulty 5 there, because the Purchasing Agent is hired by the three 6 judges -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- and the Auditor. So, we 9 need to be careful about what -- where we put this person. 10 Commissioners Court tends to be the hiring agency. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. Generally 12 speaking, systems administrators, computer specialists, et 13 cetera, work out of whatever the operational function of an 14 organization is. For example, the -- that's the reason I 15 kept suggesting that, to really have it clean, is probably 16 under Maintenance and Facilities is probably the -- there 17 may be good reason not to do that, but what I'm saying is 18 that, functionally, that's probably the closest, because 19 that is -- covers the whole County system. Now, I contend 20 that it doesn't make a whole lot of difference where we put 21 the person organizationally, that we can work out some kind 22 of supervision for that person that makes sense. I mean, we 23 can organizationally, because -- and that's true in a lot of 24 businesses that have computer specialists, because they 25 actually work for some department head somewhere, but he's 40 1 really in a different part of the organizational chart. So, 2 I don't think this -- I think we ought to do it the best way 3 it makes sense from an accounting point of view for where we 4 put the person, for accounting purposes. But I think the 5 supervision -- we can work that on an ad hoc basis to put 6 him -- him or her where he or she needs to be. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- I thought about 9 that last night, and I was -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it's really 11 nondepartmental, because it goes across the entire county, 12 so from an accounting point of view, that certainly makes 13 sense to me. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think one of the 15 things -- and I agree 100 percent, but I think one of the 16 fears, I think, is that so many times, this governmental 17 body here, we're held accountable for all the things that 18 happen, but we really don't have any control. We can just 19 use Tommy as an example. When -- you know, if the public 20 gets angry at Tommy's spending or Tommy -- whatever he does, 21 we're held accountable. The line stops here. But, really 22 and truly, he works for them, see. And there's a few other 23 things like that in the system, and I think there's -- 24 personally, I always have this little -- not a fear, but 25 just a check in my heart that says, you know, let's be 41 1 careful. You know, if I'm going to be held accountable, I 2 damn sure want some control over it. You know, that kind of 3 thing. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the reason I 5 think the function -- that -- that for what that person 6 does, it may be wise to start it out at least that he is 7 supervised by the Commissioners Court. Now, budget-wise, he 8 can be -- but we do that -- but we do that now. We -- you 9 know, for example, on other nondepartmental things, we can 10 hold Glenn Holekamp responsible for Facilities and 11 Maintenance Use, and that ultimately is where we get our 12 control of that. So, it's like -- it's like -- I don't 13 think it's necessarily bad to have the accounting set up one 14 way, and we'll put this person where it makes the most 15 sense, and right now I think, to start with, at least, it 16 would be -- it would be the Commissioners Court that he 17 would work for. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With a liaison 19 situation. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. And that -- and 21 that if -- if it makes more sense later oh to put that 22 person in Facility and Use, or anywhere, we can move -- we 23 would make that decision to say, "You go work that." But 24 right now, I think it would probably be better if we had 25 this person in the supervision of the Commissioners Court 42 1 until that person gets up to speed, we feel comfortable that 2 we've got the right person, and the right skills set and all 3 of that, and then maybe we can talk about something else. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Paula, what we're 5 talking about here is an official computer geek -- we're 6 going to have a County geek. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Wear a pocket protector, big 8 glasses. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Wear a pocket 10 protector, horn-rim glasses. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The sign over his door 12 says, "The Geek-meister." 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: C. G. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: C. G. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Then Tommy and I can 16 quit being the geek, we can just work with the geek. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause nether one of 18 these guys are geeks. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, you haven't 20 talked to my wife. She accuses me of being a geek. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, let's go to the budget 22 for the Auditor. Anybody have any questions? I don't see 23 how we could. It's exactly the same as last year. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. It went 25 down. Didn't even account for inflation, so -- 43 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where'd you lose that 2 10 grand? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Hmm? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's still there; it's the 5 same. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, it's 131; I 7 thought it was 103. Okay. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything you want to point 9 out to us, Tommy? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I don't think so. I've 11 changed a few things. My bond is coming up, so I had to 12 change that $100. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Bond has gone up $100? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: No, mine's for two every two 15 years, so I'll pay for it next year. So, other than that, I 16 don't -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, your $60,000 18 Capital Outlay, 570, is that hardware only or is that 19 hardware/software? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: What's that? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the next budget year 22 for your new accounting package. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, that's just software. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That's software only. 44 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Software, not 2 hardware. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We have the hardware running. 4 It's just that that's the software. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. Does that 6 include a module for purchasing? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it does. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it has -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's in there. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else for Tommy on 13 his own budget? Okay. Thanks, Tommy. Paula, you want your 14 turn at bat, or do you want to come back? 15 MS. RECTOR: I don't care. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're ready when you are. 17 MS. RECTOR: That's fine with me. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Tax Assessor's office 19 is 12. 20 MS. RECTOR: Okay. The first line item that 21 I did request an increase in is Travel. My in-county 22 travel, I am finding that I'm spending more and more time 23 going between Ingram and Kerrville. My Ingram office is 24 growing. She's extremely busy out there now, and we're 25 actually a real office. We have lines out there now. 45 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been discovered, in 2 other words. 3 MS. RECTOR: Yeah, it's been discovered. 4 People are remembering that it's there. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is it taking pressure 6 off of your office down here, too? Do you feel -- I mean, 7 is it helping? I know it won't -- 8 MS. RECTOR: Not really, it isn't, because 9 the growth is so rapid, the people that are coming from out 10 of state now, I don't think that my lines are any shorter 11 than they were before. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, it' a good thing 13 we have the annex. 14 MS. RECTOR: It's a good thing. And I think, 15 you know, something that we need to look at in the future is 16 going east with another office. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You anticipated my 18 question. 19 MS. RECTOR: Pardon me? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You anticipated my 21 question. 22 MS. RECTOR: Yes, that was -- that's a 23 thought, probably within the next three or four years, we 24 need to probably make a reality. We're just -- Kerrville is 25 growing so fast, and we're experiencing so many more vehicle 46 1 registrations and people coming in from out of state that 2 it's getting tough. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'd like to say 4 that -- that I know that the initiative for the Ingram 5 office started before this Court, but the reaction and the 6 feedback from people in my precinct has just been fantastic, 7 but it's the thing to do, and word has spread -- word of 8 mouth has spread very rapidly that, hey, when you need to do 9 the things that we can do at that office, go there; don't go 10 downtown, 'cause you'll get quicker service. 11 MS. RECTOR: Well, without the total support 12 of Commissioners Court at that time, I could not have done 13 it. They were behind me 100 percent, and that's -- that's 14 really what made it a reality. And I feel like the support 15 will be there when we decide to open another office in the 16 next three or four years, hopefully. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or sooner. 18 MS. RECTOR: Or sooner, right. Right. I try 19 to keep things as simple as I can. I have -- there's so 20 many other things that go into what we do. The car dealers 21 are requesting that they do issue license plates and 22 stickers on new vehicles. They've approached me on that. I 23 try to keep them at bay on that, because they would have to 24 be bonded to me and I would have to be responsible for the 25 messes that they make in the dealerships. And, at this 47 1 point right now, I don't think that I'm ready to -- 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Paula, talk for just 3 a moment about Line 206, Bonds and Insurance. That's a 4 quantum leap there. 5 MS. RECTOR: Yes. My 4-year bond is due each 6 year; I have just my yearly bond, which is my crime 7 comprehensive crime bond, which is $250, not $241. That is 8 my yearly bond for my employees. Every four years, when I 9 take office, I have to renew two 4-year bonds, my public 10 official bond and my faithful performance bond. So, that's 11 the reason why there is a -- such an increase in my bonds. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 13 MS. RECTOR: And, as you can see, I did not 14 put in FICA, insurance and retirement, because of the -- I'm 15 experiencing, once again, a turnover in my office in my 16 Motor Vehicle Department, and I did write each one of you a 17 letter a few weeks back regarding that. I have lost one key 18 person that did come to me from a dealership that came in 19 not as an entry-level, but higher. She's now gone to a 20 dealership, and then another one that I lost about a month 21 ago. I have one employee in training, and I am interviewing 22 right now to fill that second position, but I do -- I'm 23 thinking I'm probably going to be losing another one. So, 24 my whole salary structure's probably going to change, so I'd 25 like to address that probably at a later date, when I see 48 1 what's going to happen. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 3 MS. RECTOR: But, back to the employees. I 4 did request an additional employee. At this point, that 5 person would be in my Voter Registration Department. My 6 Chief Deputy is totally tied up in Voter Registration, and 7 does not really have time to perform her duties, and she is 8 becoming very frustrated. I have one other deputy in Voter 9 Registration, but the workload has increased with the 10 increase in registered voters in the county, and I just see 11 the definite need for another employee. And that person 12 could also be cross-trained in the Motor Vehicle Department. 13 When I need someone in my Ingram office, I'm having a hard 14 time when my deputy there wants to take vacation; I have no 15 one to fill in. If I pull a person off the counter here to 16 take out there, then I'm short here, so I've got to have 17 somebody that I can put in that place. And then, again, if 18 she's got appointments or time or she's sick, I've got to 19 cover that Ingram office also. And usually my Chief Deputy 20 is the one that goes out to the Ingram office when those 21 situations come up. So, I've got to have someone else in 22 Voter Registration and in my Motor Vehicle Department to be 23 able to cover those. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Excuse me, I'm -- I 25 missed something. Where is that shown? The -- the request 49 1 for that? 2 MS. RECTOR: Well, I put -- 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's exactly in her position 4 schedule. 5 MS. RECTOR: Position schedule, I put new 6 employee. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay, I see that. 8 Okay. Okay, I got you. 9 MS. RECTOR: Okay, new position. Postage, 10 that line item is down from this last year, because we do 11 not do our mass mailout of voter registration cards this 12 year. That's every other year. So, every other year you'll 13 see an increase in my postage. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I noticed that, and I 15 read your explanation. And I noticed, also, on the County 16 Clerk's asking list and others' an increase -- did I not 17 read somewhere recently where U.S.P.S. is contemplating 18 another rate increase. 19 MS. RECTOR: There's going to be another -- 20 another rate increase, and I have included that in my 21 request for my postage for this year. Yes, they are going 22 to go up again; I think it's going to be another penny. 23 Office Supplies, there is an increase in that line item. I 24 am currently at -- at the end of my June statement, I only 25 had $317 left in in that line item. It's just the increased 50 1 cost in the office supplies that are needed, both for here 2 and in my Ingram office. Books, Publications and Dues, 3 there's a $50 increase there. My Association dues are 4 increasing this next year, and hopefully that will cover it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to announce 6 that our Association dues, a great possibility of 7 decreasing. 8 MS. RECTOR: That's right. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right, 10 because of good management only. 11 MS. RECTOR: And who might that be? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ho-ho-ho. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could we move to 14 strike something from our record? 15 MS. RECTOR: Can we strike that? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be a 17 one-year aberration? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One year. 20 MS. RECTOR: Okay. The next increase is my 21 Maintenance Contracts. My mailing machine is over 10 years 22 old, and those parts now, I've been told by Pitney-Bowes, 23 are obsolete and they will be increasing my maintenance cost 24 each year. I have a cost projection there that shows the 25 savings over a 5-year period, with a new Pitney-Bowes 51 1 mailing machine. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's the cost of the new 3 machine, Paula? 4 MS. RECTOR: Well, let's see. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They put it in on a 6 contract basis, don't they? 7 MS. RECTOR: Yeah, it's going to be a 8 contract basis, yes. I'll be paying just a monthly 9 maintenance on the meter, and the mailing machine -- now, 10 we're doing our postage by phone now, so there's not a meter 11 maintenance on there. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The new one's $195 a 13 month? 14 MS. RECTOR: Right. It's -- my current cost 15 per month now is $186.50, and the first year the cost would 16 be $202.28 for the first year. It's just a slight increase, 17 but I will be getting a new machine. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You show the -- 20 currently, you show the $202.28? 21 MS. RECTOR: That will be the -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you kept the same 23 equipment, right? The cost would be the $202? 24 MS. RECTOR: Right. Right. With the new 25 machine, the cost would be $195, right. 52 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's what I -- 2 MS. RECTOR: Yeah. The current cost per 3 month will reflect the increase if I keep the same machine I 4 have. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're better off 6 to get a new machine. 7 MS. RECTOR: Better off, because it's going 8 to stay $195 a year for five years, so they say. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's an 10 inclusive number, the maintenance and everything, all the 11 updates and so forth? 12 MS. RECTOR: Yes. Yes. Lease Copier, that 13 was on -- all right, my current -- my cost projection for 14 the current year was a little bit low. I was being a little 15 too conservative, I think, on that line item. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's because of the number 17 of copies that you have -- 18 MS. RECTOR: The number of copies, and my 19 Ingram office copy machine, they are -- the charge per copy 20 is not what I thought it would be. She's actually making 21 more copies out there than I thought she would be. My 22 Conference line item I'm also increasing, because of the 23 increased costs in the lodging and food. Software 24 Maintenance, my cost this budget year was incorrect. They 25 did an increase on me right after the budget year began 53 1 because of the new road district, Spring Creek. What 2 happens is they -- they charge me by the amount of bills 3 that I have. And, just with those few bills added oh to 4 Spring Creek, it threw me into the next bracket, so I'm 5 short on that line item this year. But, Tommy and I have 6 talked about that and have covered that for this year, but I 7 did include that in my next year's cost. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Where is Spring Creek? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Witt Road. 10 MS. RECTOR: Center Point. Yes, that was the 11 one that was approved right at budget time, and there was 12 kind of a lack of communication between, I guess, the Court 13 and the Appraisal District; they didn't get the word that it 14 had been approved and they did not put it on my roll, so I 15 had to do a supplement to the roll, and after that was done, 16 Software Group had already given us the maintenance on it 17 for that year. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Approved by the 20 previous Court, so -- 21 MS. RECTOR: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fell into last year's 23 budget. 24 MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm. But it did jump me into 25 the next bracket. And, Computer Supplies is down this year, 54 1 and that's because we do not have to run our mass mailout of 2 voter registration cards. And, Capital Outlay, I'm in dire 3 need of a storage cabinet for my Voter Registration 4 Department; I'm totally out of room. And I did find one 5 storage unit that would accommodate my voter files. They 6 have to be a certain size; it can't just be a filing 7 cabinet, it's got to be drawers where those voter 8 registration cards and all of the information that we get on 9 those voters can be filed. So, I've requested one voter 10 registration file there at $495, and then $3,000 for the 11 purchase of two new PCs and printers to replace my terminals 12 in the Voter Registration Department. I want to network my 13 Voter Registration Department this year because of the 14 amount of correspondence that they do. If they're on a PC 15 network, they can go from voter registration application 16 right into the correspondence part; that can be put into the 17 system, and instead of going to another computer and 18 retrieving that information or typing it up. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You do have, like, 20 voters registration and -- and I've seen you go from voter 21 registration to your tax -- 22 MS. RECTOR: Right, we can -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- rolls and those 24 kinds of things. 25 MS. RECTOR: We can access all of the other 55 1 programs in my office from those terminals, because they're 2 tied into the mainframe. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't go from 4 voter registration to where? 5 MS. RECTOR: To be able to access -- we do a 6 lot of correspondence in voter registration, and if we had 7 all of those in the PC -- okay, we're having to get up 8 physically, go to the PC, sit down where we have all of 9 those correspondence in that PC, and do it from there. So, 10 you're jumping back and forth; you're getting up, going from 11 one computer to another computer, when it could all be right 12 in front of you. So, I would like to network that 13 department. And also, I'm going to network my Tax 14 Department and buy laser printers, but I'm going to do that 15 out of my V.I.T. interest money; that will be at no cost to 16 the County, so that I can get my whole office networked. 17 And I understand that that process is -- the recabling is 18 going to happen this summer, hopefully. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the game plan. Okay. 20 Any other -- any questions for Paula? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nope. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good presentation. Thank 23 you. 24 MS. RECTOR: Thank you. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: And, we've ruin through this 56 1 in record time. We'll be in recess until 1:30. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to make a 3 comment. If -- to back up what Larry was talking about a 4 while ago, the Clerk's presentation sheet. When I first 5 opened that up and had to turn it this way, you know, when I 6 first looked at it, I thought, "Oh, no, I've got to 7 preprogram my mind." 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good format. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But once you start 10 looking at it, man, let's everybody go to that. That is -- 11 that's a work of art. You can see the changes and ups and 12 downs. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's got the total so 14 you can quickly compare. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The first thing I 17 always like to look at is what is this year's budget request 18 versus last year's budget request. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So you can see what 21 the totals are and say, "Okay, now, wher are the 22 differences?" If you have it all on one sheet, just a quick 23 analysis without -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Paula's -- here in 25 one line, she says, "I am requesting $700." Now, is that 57 1 $700 total? Or is that a $700 increase? 2 MS. RECTOR: Well, but keep reading. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, yeah. But her 5 deal -- her deal is side-by-side; you could see it. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's great. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I like any time you 9 can -- and the nice thing about that is -- is when you start 10 to change -- 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 (Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 (Jonathan here for this part.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's now 1:30 on Wednesday 16 afternoon, July the 12th, and we will reconvene the budget 17 workshops of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. The first 18 public official to undergo the lash is District Clerk, Linda 19 Uecker. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under being or being 21 under? 22 MS. UECKER: Probably some of both. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Linda, what do you need to 24 tell us about your budget? 25 MS. UECKER: Basically -- let's see. If you 58 1 want to start down at -- everything is basically the same, 2 except for 206, the Bonds and Insurance, and that's just a 3 couple of dollars higher, because I figured exactly what it 4 was all coming to, what we were going to pay this year. Not 5 anticipating an increase, which I don't think that's going 6 to happen, 'cause they usually let me know ahead of time. 7 And, then, postage is the same. And -- and I'm hoping 8 that's going to be all right. Except that I just now put in 9 for the very last postage that I have, but I'm hoping that 10 that will last me the rest of the year. Plus, pretty soon 11 we're going to be sending all child support payments to the 12 A.G.'s office, so that should save us some postage, too. 13 So, I'm going to hold where I am and just see happens. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you taking into 15 consideration there's probably going to to be a postal rate 16 increase? 17 MS. UECKER: Yes. Office Supplies, I'm at 18 the same. Photocopy expense, the same. Everything is the 19 same until we get down to Microfilm Records. Then I have 20 keyed in an additional $5,000, and that's what Jannett and I 21 were just talking about. I don't know how she has hers, but 22 I have, in boxes, some very historical documents like this 23 from the old cases. There's not -- I mean, there's not all 24 of them, but there are several boxes of these. And, what 25 they've done is -- they did one of these as a sample so I 59 1 could show the Court -- is they treat each page. It's an 2 acid type of treatment that keeps it from deteriorating any 3 further. And then each sheet is encapsulated, unless it's 4 blank, on both sides, and then they can put two -- two 5 together that have been treated. And then, when they have a 6 binder full -- they put them in binders. Now, the only 7 thing that I told them is, the binders are a little bit 8 expensive. I said, don't put them in binders. Go ahead and 9 seal them on all four sides, and I'll figure out some way to 10 bind them and save some money. If you want to look at that, 11 that happens to be an 1875 arrest warrant. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anybody we know? 13 MS. UECKER: What's that? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anybody we know? 15 MS. UECKER: Probably -- you probably do. 16 And, other than that, the Microfilm is the same. Now, the 17 $5,000 that I have put in there is not going to cover the 18 cost of all of it. But, you know, I didn't want to do it 19 all at one time, because, number one, it's a lot of work for 20 me to pull all of these out and prepare them, and plus I 21 didn't want that expense to hit us all at once. I did have 22 some done this year, couple of thousand dollars worth that I 23 felt like I could afford, and they're being processed right 24 now, and I'm anxious to see what they look like when they 25 come back. And, let's see. The other change is Maintenance 60 1 Contracts is down a little bit. Evidence Storage Rent, you 2 know, I didn't key a figure in there, because I'm still 3 hoping that -- I know, Judge, you don't want to hear it, and 4 I don't either -- that I'll have someplace to go with that 5 stuff. I just recently had to transfer some money to that 6 line item from another account, and I don't remember which 7 one. I think I used amounts from several different items to 8 come up with another quarter, to pay that quarter. See, 9 last year in the budget -- or this year's budget, it only 10 included a half a year, because we assumed that we were 11 going to be in our new facility, and I would have storage 12 space for all of that stuff. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: In the -- in prudence, I 14 think we ought to budget at least half a year for storage. 15 MS. UECKER: Okay. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm sorry, I don't see -- 17 anyway, that you're going to -- 18 MS. UECKER: Or a quarter, anyway. A quarter 19 would take us through the end of the year. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: At least that, at least a 21 quarter. 22 MS. UECKER: Why don't we do that, then? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. That would be what, 24 then? $390? 25 MS. UECKER: Yes, $390. 61 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're just going to need it. 2 No way that to avoid that reality. 3 MS. UECKER: I don't know if any of you have 4 been out to the jail storage, but the part-time person that 5 the Court okayed several months ago for me to do just the 6 work on the old records and cleaning it up and destroying 7 it, that's working out beautiful. Russ Duncan has allowed 8 us to use her office -- I mean his office down there, the 9 one that the Court had given him that was Rusty's office 10 downstairs. We've moved her down there with Russ -- you 11 know, he said he'd give that up, and I appreciate that very 12 much. But, I mean, we just keep Alex running, you know, 13 back and forth, shredding documents, original documents that 14 have been put on microfilm, and that is going -- I mean, 15 saving so much space. Once they're on microfilm, she's 16 checked every shot to make sure that we can reproduce that 17 shot before she destroys the original document. And, you 18 know, I bet -- oh, I bet we have destroyed 2,000 or 19 3,000 pounds of original court files already, and there's a 20 lot more to go, but she's really cleaning up those shelves 21 out at the jail. And, when we get through there, then 22 she'll start on that storage unit, which is all mostly 23 criminal stuff. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 25 MS. UECKER: And some court reporters' 62 1 things, too, in there. So, that -- that money that's coming 2 out of the Records Preservation has been well spent for her 3 to do that. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good. 5 MS. UECKER: Let's see. The other thing -- 6 that Lease Copier, there again, I've got $200 additional 7 keyed in there, but the actual expense is going to be 8 $4,940, depending on how many copies we make. Now, if it 9 doesn't -- it's a standard, I think, $365 a month, unless we 10 go over that copy -- that monthly copy rate, which we don't 11 normally do unless we have a really big case. Now, we are 12 going to write the Reichenau case in August, so that may 13 be -- but that's still going to be in this year's budget, so 14 that won't be affected. Conferences, I have added another 15 $300 to that because of the increase in the room rates. As 16 y'all well know if you've gone to Austin and stayed there, 17 room rates have gone way up. Miscellaneous is the same. I 18 have nothing keyed in for Computer Hardware, nothing for 19 Computer Software. Software Maintenance is going to remain 20 the same. Computer Supplies, I have increased that by $200, 21 based on the standard expenses that I've -- I'm going to 22 have this year. And Capital Outlay, I've got $12,650. 23 Let's see, that heavy-duty laser printer that I have is six 24 or seven years old already, and that thing gets -- runs 25 almost constantly, and we're having to have repair come in 63 1 oftener and oftener, 'cause I think there's been some damage 2 to the drum. But, we run jury cards -- I run all the jury 3 cards for all the courts, and that printer has just been -- 4 knock on wood -- has been great. That was a good investment 5 at the time. We run all of our issuances on that, almost 6 all of it on that printer, rather than having -- let's see, 7 that's the only, I think, serial printer that we have up 8 there, except for the receipt printer and PTR-21, which just 9 does reports. It's just a dot matrix printer that does 10 child support reports and that Robbin uses for audit 11 reports. And, I've keyed in $2,000 for a -- a heavy-use new 12 laser printer for that thing. And our fax machine is just 13 about on its last leg. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: How long have you had that, 15 Linda? 16 MS. UECKER: The fax machine? Let's see. 17 I'm not sure, but I know that I bought that one the same 18 time that David Motley and Pat, I think, bought theirs, and 19 I think theirs have already been replaced. I know Motley's 20 has. And I've got some prices on those, and that's where I 21 come up with the $2,000 and the $400. To acquire only 22 terminals, I talked to Tommy about that, and these are 23 specifically, when we get into the new facility, we'll have 24 an area for inquiry only. They're dump terminals. They're 25 the ones that -- you know, the cheap ones that we get from 64 1 the Software Group -- well, cheap is a poor choice of words. 2 It comes from the Software -- Software Group. And, I got 3 that figure from -- from Tommy, and that includes the -- the 4 two keyboards and the -- well, the entire package on that. 5 And then, we've replaced one reader-printer this last year. 6 Both of them are -- well, see, I've got one that's real 7 good, and my intention was to have three. I can see -- you 8 know, I can see, with the -- the caseload that we have and 9 the public inquiry and abstracters, if we had three 10 reader-printers, I don't think anybody would ever have to 11 wait. Right now I've got two, and as soon as we move in, 12 I've got one in storage, a brand-new one that I had in last 13 year's budget that, by the way, I got under the budgeted 14 amount. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I remember. 16 MS. UECKER: To replace that one, but I 17 didn't really want to haul it upstairs and hook it up until 18 we got moved. I may have to, because that big old 605 is -- 19 I've had it probably 12 years, I think. So, the one that I 20 have will replace that one. And then the $9,000 is for 21 the -- a third, to add that one after we get into the new 22 facility, and I think I can probably get it under nine, 23 'cause -- well, hey, I'm good. And we'll have a break room 24 once we get moved in, and I've got $250 keyed in there for a 25 second-hand refrigerator. And, there again, I could 65 1 probably get it for less; I don't know, but that's kind of a 2 figure that I put in there. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 4 MS. UECKER: Let's see, where am I? And I 5 think that's all, except for the salaries, and I think you 6 said that we weren't going to discuss those today. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 8 MS. UECKER: Right. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Linda, when -- this 11 may be a librarian question when we do the library. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll do it next. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, this will be a 14 library question. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions about the 16 District Clerk's budget? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing that I had -- 18 kind of have is, I guess, a question of how necessary is the 19 third reader-printer? I mean, how long are people waiting 20 with two? If we have two, I mean, the new one that's -- 21 should be good, I presume. 22 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other one that 24 currently works, how long a wait will people have to have? 25 MS. UECKER: Long enough that they sit around 66 1 and start talking to my staff and distract them. 'Cause if 2 they have to sit and wait, they're going to talk to 3 somebody. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty good reason to buy 5 another one. 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Linda, last year we 8 authorized you the two needed additional clerks, which, you 9 know, you haven't been able to hire. 10 MS. UECKER: That's right. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're still in the budget. 12 You have -- I'm just asking you the budget for a full year 13 for them in these numbers, or -- 14 MS. UECKER: Yes, mm-hmm. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, again, it's probably 16 going to be only three-quarters or half a year. 17 MS. UECKER: Right -- well -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Depends on when you can get 19 in. 20 MS. UECKER: Yeah, October 1st -- one of 21 them, I had planned to go ahead and put on full-time October 22 the 1st, because I'm using her a lot anyway. As a matter of 23 fact, we had transferred some of that money that I didn't 24 use for that full-time person over to part-time line item so 25 that I could use her more. And I may go ahead and put her 67 1 on full-time as of October the 1st. Now, the other one, you 2 know, I don't -- I don't know. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we need to make an 4 adjustment because, rightly, you put in both of them 5 full-time all year. 6 MS. UECKER: Right. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's your call to go ahead 8 and hire the one full-time. 9 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: But if you're going to hire 11 the second one when you get into the new space, we probably 12 only ought to budget in the coming fiscal year 13 three-quarters of her salary and benefits. 14 MS. UECKER: Well, three-quarters would not 15 be until -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: January. 17 MS. UECKER: -- january the 1st. And, gosh, 18 I was -- that would be fine, Judge. I think I can -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm just trying to be -- you 20 know, match it up, because I, unfortunately, don't think 21 they're going to have you in much before then. 22 MS. UECKER: Well -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd love to have you in 24 tomorrow. 25 MS. UECKER: You're right. Yeah, me too. 68 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're talking about 2 September for the courtrooms, and then they have to turn 3 around and go on yours. 4 MS. UECKER: Yeah, September -- yeah, 5 October, November, December. I -- personally, I think we'll 6 be in by January the 1st. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think that's about 8 the right time, too, which is why I'm saying on that second 9 new person, we might only budget three-quarters of a full -- 10 MS. UECKER: That's fine, I don't have a 11 problem with that, if you want to do that on the second one. 12 This one I'd like to leave in. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine, we can put her 14 to work. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And on these -- just 16 a quick question -- don't they give you these back sealed so 17 the document can't be removed? 18 MS. UECKER: Right, yeah. It will be sealed 19 on three sides -- I mean on all four -- we have a choice; 20 either seal them on all four or just three sides. And, 21 usually they don't seal them on the fourth side if they bind 22 them in those books, which is much more expensive. So, I've 23 told them I wanted them sealed on all four sides, and I'll 24 figure out some way to bind them. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want this 69 1 back? 2 MS. UECKER: Yes. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 4 questions about the District Clerk's budget, per se? Okay, 5 let's go to the County Law Library. 6 MS. UECKER: Okay, County Law Library. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 8 MS. UECKER: What? No? Okay. Capital 9 Outlay, that item is $6,600, and that is for -- based on a 10 contract that -- from West Group for the CD-ROMs. 11 Probably -- we're probably going to be saving -- rather 12 than -- now, you've seen the bills that come through from 13 West for thousands and thousands of dollars. On the CD-ROM 14 -- and it would -- we'd have to get these towers to do that, 15 but it's, like, $350 a month, period. So, we're going to be 16 saving some money doing it that way. The only thing -- 17 thing that I intend to keep in hard copy are the Black 18 Statutes, the litigation and transaction guides, which 19 are -- I've got some lawyers that are always in those, 20 including the public use those an awful lot. And then 21 there's one set of form books that the public uses a lot 22 that I'm going to keep. And I think there was one more real 23 small set -- oh, and I think the new trust -- estate trust 24 that I just got. Well, that's in the same package with the 25 litigation and transaction guides. 70 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 2 MS. UECKER: And, other than that, probably 3 everything else will be on CD-ROM. I did a presentation to 4 the -- at the Bar luncheon yesterday explaining to the 5 attorneys -- and Scott Tyson from West Group was there, who 6 had -- has done the package, also talked about how this was 7 going to work, and -- and they're going to do the training 8 for free. I mean there's no extra expense for the training, 9 so I think the Bar Association and the Commissioners Court 10 should be very pleased with what's happening in the Law 11 Library. We've worked very hard on trying to get -- get it 12 to where everyone can use it and won't have all the books. 13 And, you know, I'm not going to deal with it right now, but 14 just to put a bug in your ear, at some point I'm going to 15 come to this Court and say, what do you want to do with all 16 those books? Do we want to declare them surplus? Do we 17 want to -- you know, most of those Schreiner College already 18 has, and I don't know for sure if the library has all of 19 them. They may want -- you know, if the County wants to 20 donate them. Other than that, we'll have to declare them 21 surplus and -- and go out -- you know, bid them out. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, there may be -- we'll 23 give them -- transfer them to the Sheriff's Department, 24 since they have to maintain a Law Library out there for the 25 inmates. 71 1 MS. UECKER: That's fine. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: When I shut my practice down, 3 I gave -- 4 MS. UECKER: You did? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- several -- yeah, shelves 6 of books to them. So -- 7 MS. UECKER: Okay, to the jail. And -- you 8 know, and I'll get with Rusty on that when the time comes to 9 see what he needs. And, you know, with the Court's 10 permission, I'll just say, you know, take out there what you 11 want, and then what's left we'll have to declare as surplus. 12 But, we're talking about tons and tons of books. And, as a 13 matter of fact -- and I'm glad it's happening now, because 14 we're gradually going to be familiarizing ourselves -- even 15 though I don't have the computers yet, he has already -- 16 we've already started this subscription for the CD-ROM. So, 17 most of the -- the updates have already stopped on 18 everything except the Black Statutes, like the Federal 19 Supplements, Supreme Court Reporters, the Texas cases, all 20 that's already stopped. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good. 22 MS. UECKER: So, you're not going to be 23 paying for that any more. You know, if -- and I explained 24 that to the Bar Association; they were understanding. I 25 said, You're just going to have to bear with us for a while. 72 1 What's there is in boxes, because they've already come up 2 and taken some of the shelves, and we've boxed up a lot of 3 books. And we just didn't -- you know, if there's an 4 emergency, I've got the CD-ROM, and, you know, we've got 5 PC's up there, so, you know, I can shove someone off their 6 desk, or myself, and say, "Here's a CD-ROM if you really 7 need to see this.". 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we put those CD's on 9 a Web page? Or is there -- 10 MS. UECKER: No, because West reserves that 11 license and the right to sell. It's a copyright. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 13 questions about the County Law Library budget? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You answered almost my 15 whole question, and that's -- I wanted to know where we were 16 as far as computerized laws books and all that. You said 17 you're going to keep the Black Statutes, but the Black 18 Statutes will be on CD as well? 19 MS. UECKER: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we can -- some of 21 us can reach out there and grab a book. 22 MS. UECKER: Sure. Sure, everything. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How does -- how 24 does -- how does the pocket part thing work? 25 MS. UECKER: The pocket part thing? 73 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: On CD-ROMs. 2 MS. UECKER: They just send you a new CD. 3 They can reproduce -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's automatically 5 built-in? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Throw the old one away. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the beauty of 8 it. 9 MS. UECKER: You know, they can produce those 10 for, like, a dollar and 20-something cents apiece. You 11 know, at their cost, probably. And they just mass-produce 12 them and then send them out. I've already gotten -- some of 13 the first ones that I've already received have been replaced 14 by some other ones. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Linda, in the hard- 16 cover library that you're talking about getting rid of? 17 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some of that is 19 out-of-date, where it has relatively little value? 20 MS. UECKER: As of the first of this month, 21 everything was up-to-date. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's all current? 23 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is the -- when they 25 revised those CD's, I suspect that has the changes 74 1 integrated into, rather than as -- 2 MS. UECKER: Right, and that's -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- a several-piece -- 4 that's another beauty of it. 5 MS. UECKER: That's -- when they revise them, 6 they send you the whole new, instead of having another CD 7 that is -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just the changes. 9 MS. UECKER: -- an upgrade to this one. They 10 just rewrite the whole thing. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Easier that way. 12 Easier to use, too. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, my last question 14 is, how many lawyers in town contributed toward the program? 15 This program. 16 MS. UECKER: Contributed to the program? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. How many walked 18 in with some money and laid the money down to help buy all 19 this stuff? 20 MS. UECKER: None yet, and I don't think 21 they've been asked yet. Pam King and Gianni Ret were 22 appointed by the Bar by -- who's the president of the Bar 23 now. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Clay. 25 MS. UECKER: Clay Steadman, to work with me 75 1 on it. The one thing that they have done, Commissioner 2 Baldwin, is that they have agreed that they will take turns 3 working with the library so that someone will be there 4 almost all of the time, if I can't be in, or -- there's a 5 lot of retired attorneys in town that have already said that 6 they would certainly take their turn helping the public or 7 other attorneys that are not sure how to use the -- you 8 know, if the Court desires, I can write them a formal letter 9 and say, you know, how much do you want to contribute? It's 10 up to you. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think it would 12 be nice, because when we -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: You have to understand that 14 this library is not for the lawyers. Almost every lawyer in 15 town has a better library than this one will ever be. This 16 is for the public. This is something we are required to do. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When we talked about 18 this ten years ago, we had talked about that -- as a matter 19 of fact a lot of lawyers in town came together and said, 20 We'll fund this thing if you'll put it together. Do you 21 remember that? I do. 22 MS. UECKER: Yes, I do. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I was just kind of 24 going on that. If -- 25 MS. UECKER: And I don't think that subject's 76 1 come up, because so many of these attorneys that were there 2 ten years ago and probably said that are retired, and I -- I 3 feel like the Bar Association probably, as a whole, or even 4 some of the -- the younger ones -- I know Mr. Harris will 5 probably gladly contribute, because he's helped us an awful 6 lot already on furnishings for the new facility, and I don't 7 know if the Court knows that or not. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, we do. 9 THE WITNESS: You know, I think there's some 10 of them that probably would. And, you know, just tell me 11 what you want me to do. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Don't we have some 13 kind of statutory requirement that we have to maintain 14 certain -- 15 MS. UECKER: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- documents in our 17 law library? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. I mean, we have to have 19 a County Law Library. That's why we do. 20 MS. UECKER: We have to have a County Law 21 Library. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Or we wouldn't. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Or we wouldn't. 24 MS. UECKER: And kind of ringing my own bell 25 here, I can say that, from visiting other courthouses, 77 1 counties of the size of Kerr County, our law library is far 2 superior to most others, and even in the larger counties. 3 Preponderance. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let me ask a couple 5 questions, Linda, with you and Tommy both. In the budget 6 summary that Tommy gave us yesterday, he showed 7 approximately $35,000 in non-tax revenues in the coming year 8 for law library. That comes from a fee that we charge on 9 each -- 10 MS. UECKER: Yes. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- case that's filed? What 12 is that money used for? I mean, is it above what's here, 13 or -- 14 MS. UECKER: No, that's -- that is -- that's 15 the debt -- that's the money that has to fund the law 16 library. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. So, that money comes 18 from -- 19 MS. UECKER: It can't be used for anything 20 else. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, it's -- in other words, 22 so it's not a revenue from general taxes to go to the law 23 library; it's revenue from the fee that we collect? 24 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. And the Court, earlier 25 this year, -- well, I say earlier this year. Probably 78 1 October 1 of last year, I came to the Court and asked them 2 to increase that fee to the maximum of $35, if y'all will 3 remember, and that's what that is. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, eventually -- well, it 5 already is -- the fee is already funding the law library. 6 MS. UECKER: The fee is funding the law 7 library. I think last year or two years ago, the Court had 8 to pitch in, and that's -- and that's when I was really 9 working on trying to clean that law library up. It was a 10 mess when I took it over. Now, I don't know who did it, and 11 I don't care, but it was a mess, and I worked every weekend 12 and I worked at nights and we spent some extra money to get 13 it -- to bring it up to standards to where it is now. And 14 I -- and I think at that time the Court had to pitch in, 15 like, another $5,000, but I don't think they've had to do 16 that since then. Tommy might know that. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't remember what it was. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anybody have any other 19 questions about the law library? Okay. Next would be the 20 jury budgets, which are essentially identical to last year. 21 MS. UECKER: Yeah, and I really don't have 22 any comments on that, other than the only -- and this is a 23 question I have of the Auditor. Last year, when we 24 discussed the jury budgets, there were things that we -- I 25 thought we had decided to separate these, 'cause some of 79 1 this needed to go -- like, these jury budgets. The 2 District Court Administrator and I pass this back and forth, 3 because there's some figures that I key in and some that she 4 keys in, because the District Clerk is the official jury 5 manager for the County. I, of course, key in the supplies 6 and things. I, on the other hand, don't know, you know, 7 what -- what needs to be budgeted for Special Court 8 Reporter, and I had -- it was my understanding that the 9 special court reporter and the court reporter's salary was 10 going to be moved over into the District Judges' budget, and 11 have the juries separate -- I mean, separate from the jury. 12 And, I don't know why that salary is in the jury budget, 13 anyway. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: It's zero, isn't it? 15 MS. UECKER: Yeah, it's zeroed out. Is 16 that -- is that why it's like that? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 18 MS. UECKER: Okay, nevermind. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask about the 20 court reporter's salary, though? 21 MS. UECKER: Not to me. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As an example. The 23 198th courts reporter's salary is $32,376. Is that just 24 Kerr County's? That's the district-wide -- 25 MS. UECKER: That's -- I think that's 80 1 district-wide, but she only has, I think, two counties left. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: The 198th. 3 MS. UECKER: It's the 198th. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 198th, compared to 22 5 grand for the 216th. She has, what, five -- 6 MS. UECKER: Five counties, mm-hmm. Now, 7 that -- see, and I don't understand, either, why those 8 aren't -- it's figured totally different. And I'm not even 9 sure -- and I think the $22,000 in the 216th is only Kerr 10 County's portion. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I figured. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the other one, 13 too. 14 MS. UECKER: I don't know, could be. The 15 Auditor would know that better. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: What? 17 MS. UECKER: Whether or not the 198th court 18 reporter, that $32,000, is Kerr County's portion. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That's Kerr County's portion. 20 MS. UECKER: That's just Kerr County's 21 portion. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have, 23 there are numerous categories that you -- very little money 24 seems to get spent out of, but you're carrying the 25 balances -- I mean, almost all of them. I mean, it 81 1 appears -- well, court interpreter. And, in the 198th, I 2 know 216th used $152 out of $1,000 as of, you know, that 3 date. And the other -- the 198th, it was zero. And you've 4 reduced it from $1,300 down to $1,000, but I'm wondering if 5 we have excess there, and also in the -- 6 MS. UECKER: On the court reporter expense or 7 the interpreter? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 496. 9 MS. UECKER: Okay, 496. In the 198th, we 10 left it the same. And, here again, the reason -- that's a 11 figure that I got directly from the Court, because, you 12 know, I have no way of knowing any more. We used to be the 13 ones to call in all the court interpreters, and I can figure 14 that pretty easily, but their court administrator does all 15 of that now, so that's just the figure that she gave me to 16 put in there. So, that's probably a question you would need 17 to ask when you do the District Court budgets; you probably 18 need to go back over this again. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause when you look at 20 the 899 actual, I mean, they didn't spend any money there. 21 They haven't spent money in a couple years. We're carrying 22 $750 in our budgets for them. I know there may be something 23 that -- 24 MS. UECKER: But, Commissioner Letz, if -- 25 let's say we're going to try a case where the defendant 82 1 doesn't understand English, and we can spend that $750 in 2 one week on a court -- or interpreter. Should, you know, it 3 be a long trial, we can spend that on one case. We have no 4 way of nothing who's going to be charged with what and 5 whether or not they're -- they can speak English. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: The issue is, do we budget 7 for them 'cause we have to pay it if it comes up, or do we 8 not budget for it and then scramble for it if it comes up? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 10 MS. UECKER: You know, and -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Kind of roll of the dice. 12 MS. UECKER: And the good news is -- is we 13 haven't had to spend it, but we need to put it in there. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's board for jurors, 15 333? 16 MS. UECKER: Board -- board for jurors is the 17 meals that we pay for the jurors that work at night or that 18 want to work through their lunch hour. If they're 19 deliberating, we ask that they not leave. We go ahead and 20 let them deliberate and bring in lunch for them, and I 21 usually take my car and go to you know, pick up sandwiches 22 or whatever, and bring it back, and -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could get a stick 24 of bologna and some day-old bread from now on. 25 MS. UECKER: We have done that. Yeah, we've 83 1 done that. But, no, sometimes we order pizza in, but -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions about the 3 jury budget? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, 5 Mrs. Uecker. 6 MS. UECKER: You're welcome. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Linda. Appreciate 8 it. 9 MS. UECKER: Thank you. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well done. 11 MS. UECKER: See, that was painless, wasn't 12 it? Did I hurt any of you? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Painless. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next up is the Maintenance 15 Department. We've been saving up for this one. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now we can vent our 17 spleens. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here come the chairs. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, here come the 20 chairs, these chairs. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: I got them on the list. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Where is Maintenance? 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Did you notice? I had them on 24 here. I was testing yesterday if I could get it on another 25 budget. 84 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Which tab is that on? 2 I don't find it in the index. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 13. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lucky 13. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Courthouse and Related 6 Buildings. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, Glenn. Tell us what we 9 need to know. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Do you want me to just 11 hit the major changes? Is that kind of the format? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think so. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. In this -- this May, I 14 was requested to look at the Park budget. And I know that's 15 coming up tomorrow, but we need to keep Park in mind when we 16 do this one and Hill Country -- I mean the Exhibition 17 Center, because all those employees are kind of comingled 18 and mixed around. So, if y'all will bear with me -- and if 19 you have questions, I'll be glad to try to answer them. 20 Salaries. Under -- and I'm not talking about 21 increases; I'm talking about a position. I'm asking -- in 22 Line Item 106, 510-106, it is lower in dollars this year 23 than it was in last year's budget. $4,000. But I'm asking 24 for an additional custodian this year, and the reason is, 25 if -- one of the employees that is currently in this budget, 85 1 if the Parks budget goes into effect, he will be transferred 2 to Parks, so he comes out and this one goes in. That's what 3 reduces the -- the dollars. And the reason I'm asking for 4 it is -- is we have run into several kind of cross-overs, 5 not -- we're not being consistent on our outside cleaning. 6 And, when I say "outside cleaning," I'm talking about J.P. 7 2, Extension Office, Road and Bridge, and I would like to 8 incorporate Probation Department into that this coming year. 9 That currently is under a contract to be cleaned, and I 10 would like to have it within our department to possibly have 11 a little better control of it, and especially quality 12 control. So, I'm asking for another position there, or -- 13 or additional. And also the overflow, which will be a 14 nighttime position, will help the -- currently, the two 15 custodians take care of the new construction area and 16 courtrooms when that comes online. So, that's the -- my 17 justification for the need for the other custodian. All 18 right. The other major -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go back just a 22 second. Talking about getting another employee to take care 23 of the upstairs, now, what if -- when we do the downstairs 24 also, is the same person going to be able to do that? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. Yes. Commissioner, 86 1 what -- right now we have two nighttime custodians, and we 2 are in the process of training them to be able to split up 3 and work time-allotting. We're scheduling so the bottom 4 down there will be able to be taken care of by these two 5 people in addition to what they're doing now, with 6 scheduling. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: So, yes, I -- my best 9 estimation is that three custodian staff after-hours should 10 be able to maintain all of this courthouse in a 11 satisfactory -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's your business. 13 I just wanted to make sure that we remembered that we're 14 probably going to do something down there. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's all in the -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- plan. On the Part-Time, I 18 did -- I put that in there as -- we have never put very much 19 in Part-Time, and it is an area that I feel like that we're 20 going to have to use. We -- we get into situations around 21 here where we take on these special projects; i.e., running 22 cable, you know, for Tommy or whoever. That is a very 23 difficult task for one individual to do by himself, through 24 the ceilings and that sort of thing. So, I would like to 25 have some money in the budget to allow for hiring a person 87 1 to help on certain instances when we need them. Overtime 2 will stay the same. Let's see, the next one was Supplies. 3 I had an increase of $1,000. Supplies will go up with the 4 expanded amount of -- of bathrooms and floor space that we 5 have to maintain with chemicals and other products. 6 Basically, the rest of them stayed the same 7 until we get down to Major Repairs. We have got -- on Major 8 Repairs, in the remodel here, they replaced -- three years 9 ago, when we did this here, I believe it was, they replaced 10 one unit, and then there's four other units up there. We 11 had one go out on us about a month ago and we had to replace 12 it. Well, we -- we found some money in our budget to do 13 that, but we have two more old units up there that are not 14 going to be replaced as part of the renovations, even though 15 it will serve the space that is being remodeled. These 16 units are very old, and I -- I really feel like we are going 17 to be faced with another unit going out, so I wanted to put 18 the money the budget. I'm not saying I want to spend it. I 19 will do it only if I have to. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have it as Major 21 Repairs. Wouldn't it be Capital Outlay? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Replacements. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a replacement. 25 County-wise, that would not be Capital Outlay. 88 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: The reason, usually it's under 2 Major Repairs, or -- if we were going to just go in and 3 replace it, it would be Permanent Improvements, I guess. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Replacing a like item, 5 in an accounting sense, that's repair and maintenance. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: And I put it under 7 Maintenance, so -- but there again, that is one that, you 8 know, I'd be willing to -- I wouldn't push the issue if we 9 took it out. But, if we have a unit go down, I really don't 10 have much choice. So, then, on Capital Outlay, I have 11 $2,150 definitely that I would be requesting. One of them 12 is a carpet cleaning machine, which it's obvious that we 13 will need every bit of that to do all the carpets that we're 14 going to have upstairs. And then four vacuum cleaners, 15 which we have found that if we will station vacuum cleaners 16 in certain places, we get them to last a lot longer than if 17 we start packing them around and throwing them around. So, 18 that's what I'd like to do. On the question marks on the 19 bottoms of them here, I had on the -- I had the 20 Commissioners Court chairs. I really believe -- and then 21 again, I'm going to need input from the gentlemen that sit 22 in these chairs to tell me really what kind of chair they 23 really want. I've got some folding chairs out at the Ag 24 Barn, but I don't think that's really what y'all have in 25 mind. 89 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very easy. Some kind 2 that doesn't wobble. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, just as long as 4 it doesn't wobble. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go sit in one of those and 6 see if it wobbles. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: But I have no number. If you 8 start talking executive chairs, you can pay anywhere from. 9 $400 to $700 for them. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think they 11 paid that for these. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: I don't know. But -- but what 13 I'm saying is -- is that I'd like some input from the Court 14 as to what kind of chairs they really prefer to have. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Something about like 16 these, but that just -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: These are a good size, 18 or like the ones in our office. Very similar. I mean, 19 actually, they're the same -- same chair, really. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Essentially the same. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, we can probably 22 buy another year in these old rickety ones. I mean, at some 23 point they need to be replaced, but -- they do wobble, but I 24 sit in this chair one -- two days a month. So, I mean, it's 25 not that big a deal. 90 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Griffin's 2 the only one I've seen fall out. We've come close down at 3 this end, but we switched them all down there. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mine lists badly to 5 the left. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, it does. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it makes 8 any difference to me. I think if you replace one, you need 9 to replace them all. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir, 'cause I don't think 11 I can match them. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: And if y'all want to give me a 14 number on that, I'll be glad to go -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm happy with my 16 chair. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm indifferent. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to do a swap 19 overnight and we'll see if he's happy with it next time. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have any other relevant 21 questions on the Courthouse and Related Buildings? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Courthouse parking. That was 23 addressed in the -- in the meeting the other day. I did not 24 put put that number in here. That's going to be handled 25 under another department; is that correct? Or do you want 91 1 that -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have yet to discuss that, 3 but -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's on the -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's on the list. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: And then also on your list, 7 Judge, you had the basement close-in. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: So that's not -- that's a moot 10 deal. All right. Do you want me to do the Hill Country 11 Youth Exhibition Center now, or -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Do you have any other 14 questions on that one? Sorry. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, is that last 16 number on the last page of that, the 252 -- 251 total on 17 that page -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that -- that 20 includes the $10,500. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For the two funds they 23 were required -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. That is -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If that's not there, 92 1 your -- actually, your request would be $10,500, roughly, 2 less than it was last year? 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Because he's giving away a 5 position. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's go to the Hill 8 Country Youth Exhibition Center. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What tab is that? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's at the end of that Tab 12 13. We don't have a comparison with last year's. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, I don't. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is new? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, because we had the 16 reason why there is no comparison, there were so many line 17 items on Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center that did not 18 have any office-related line items, so when we started 19 cutting and pasting, I said, boy, why don't we just 20 develop -- we just developed our own and we just used the 21 summary sheet to do the comparison. But I can go through 22 those, and we reduced the Travel from $1,400 to $1,000. I 23 increased Overtime from $1,000 to $3,000, and that reason 24 is -- is events are really tough to accomplish in a 40-hour 25 week. It is eating us up. And comp time doesn't help me 93 1 either, because then I have so many people short. Okay, 2 we'll get down to -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What line item was 4 that? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. That -- Overtime is 6 112. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Overtime, okay. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: All right. We'll go down to 9 Postage. I'm increasing that from $100 to $150. That's 10 because we're doing more mailouts on contracts and that sort 11 of thing. But the business has increased out there. Office 12 Supplies, we had no line item before, so I made it $200. 13 Photocopy Supplies, $200, which we did not have before. 14 Uniforms we did not have before, $800. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where were they? 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: They were not. The employee 17 that had the uniforms before was -- they were coming out of 18 the courthouse budget here, and I'm trying to realign it to 19 where it should reflect exactly where it's supposed to be 20 coming from. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. On Operating Expense, I 23 did not list anything there, because under that operation, 24 it's picked up under Building and Grounds Maintenance. It's 25 not listed as Operating Expense. I'll show you that here in 94 1 a little bit. Okay. Then we did $6,500 on the Supplies, 2 stayed the same. $750 Trash Pickup, stayed the same. 3 Telephone, I increased it $300. Telephone -- and I don't 4 understand it. I guess line charges and numerous other 5 things are constantly going up. I don't understand it. We 6 feel like we have a good budget, and then it's -- you run 7 short. So -- and we would also would like to. At some 8 point in time, get on the internet out there so we have a 9 web page so people can see what we have at our facility. 10 I'd like to do that this coming year. Utilities -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That will go on the 12 County web page. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. So, I mean, 15 that would not be an additional cost to what we've already 16 planned on trying to do. It would be on the County web 17 page. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: And we have noticed -- and I 19 do -- I do a lot of the purchasing for our department, and 20 most all vendors, big companies, small companies, I could -- 21 if I had internet service, I can go directly to them and get 22 my exact bottom-line price on a screen to do my shopping. 23 Now you have to make three or four phone calls to get the 24 price through a salesman. It -- it really needs to be done. 25 You can save a lot of money. So, it's really -- I'd like to 95 1 get there at some point in time. Utilities stayed the same. 2 W've done pretty good on that, and -- but I don't know what 3 next year will bring. Building and Grounds Maintenance 4 stayed the same. Vehicle Maintenance, this was an added 5 one. It was -- there was none there, because they will -- 6 we -- everything came out of Equipment Repairs and Building 7 and Grounds Aintenance. Now we have a truck assigned out 8 there, and I wanted the vehicle maintenance and fuel 9 accounted for that vehicle. Equipment Repairs, $3,500. I 10 tried to explain there, that's -- that's pretty much repair. 11 And, when equipment gets older, you have more of it. 12 Conference Dues and Subscriptions, that was none in that 13 budget. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to repairs, 17 what equipment -- I mean, that's an awful lot to spend on 18 repairs. Might be time to buy new equipment. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, when -- I'm going to -- 20 let me use an example. We had a -- the power take-off broke 21 on the track for a 2040 John Deere we have there, which was 22 a hand-me-down from -- from Road and Bridge several years 23 ago. It cost us $754 to get it repaired, and it was a 24 50-cent pin; to install it they had to break the tractor all 25 way in half to do it. That -- that's just an instance, 96 1 because these tractors -- the maintenance on these tractors 2 and stuff like that really get expensive. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What equipment -- I mean, 4 do y'all have the -- the two tractors out there, correct? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: We have three tractors. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three tractors? 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. We have a shredder. 8 We've got three different plows, you know, for arenas and 9 that sort of thing. We have a dump truck that -- from Road 10 and Bridge. Now, they take care of a lot of the minor 11 stuff. But, like, the tractor, there was no way that you 12 could ask Road and Bridge to drop everything they have for a 13 week or two to break a tractor down, so we chose to have an 14 outside person fix it, 'cause they're pretty busy. But that 15 may be high. I'm not -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- it's 17 equivalent with the Sheriff's Department; you get to a point 18 that you're -- it's more economic to lease new equipment 19 than it is to keep on fixing some of this old stuff that we 20 have. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: That might be. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we need -- you 23 have -- and if -- when we get to the park, I mean, the 24 requirements for equipment are going to increase out there, 25 not decrease, no matter what we do. Okay. 97 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Major Repairs, I left 2 it the same as last year. Computer Supplies, that was an 3 added line item. And Capital Outlay, I think on -- y'all 4 may want to follow along on that. Maybe you got my note. 5 That -- that is less than last year, considerably, and I -- 6 total of $27,550. Last year we had $40,500, but it's kind 7 of a misleading number, because one piece of equipment on 8 there that I chose to do a -- a lease-purchase price in here 9 instead of an outright price, and that was for skid steer 10 loader. If you were to purchase it outright, I would be 11 pretty much on the money of the same Capital Outlay as last 12 year. And I have the list in the back in the priority 13 order. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The skid steer loader, 15 does -- what's the point -- if it doesn't go through, you 16 may try several of them. And specific, the exact type you 17 want, because of the very broad difference in how they 18 operate in that kind of facility. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: That is correct. But that -- 20 that was something that we have noticed in our facility that 21 is really needed that would probably save a lot of time. 22 And, to me, time is pretty important when you're short 23 people. And I kind of tried to prioritize that. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Somebody tell this old 25 fighter pilot -- explain what that skid steer loader is. 98 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bobcat. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Little Bobcat. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, okay. Okay, it's 4 a Bobcat. I didn't know what you were talking about. All 5 right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for asking. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'm sorry. I -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Never flown one of 9 those before. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: I apologize; that was my 11 fault. I shouldn't have done that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what they're 13 called. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: And on the -- my second choice 15 was on the pickup. I would prefer a three-quarter ton, and 16 the reason why I would is -- is that we are probably going 17 to have to haul some type of piece of equipment around to -- 18 for this park work and that sort of thing, to take a 19 shredder or tractor to the park, these light half-ton 20 pickups just are not adequate and safe to haul them. So, I 21 would -- I would prefer a three-quarter ton. I'm not saying 22 we need a new one, but I would like to have something that's 23 fairly dependable. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do you need a -- a 25 pickup and a utility vehicle? I presume utility vehicle is 99 1 a pickup as well? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, no, no. Utility vehicle 3 is -- you know, what they use on the golf courses with the 4 little beds on them, the -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Gators? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Not necessarily Gator. Gator 7 is -- I'm not going use that word; that's a brand name, and 8 they're a little expensive. I'm talking about the Cushman 9 gasoline-type -- golf course maintenance people use them 10 to -- they have the bed on them. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Small bed on the 12 back. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: A small bed to -- to use for 14 when we have to go into these barns where they're so narrow, 15 we can get in there and we can shovel onto those things and 16 move them around. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You talking about 18 gas-powered? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, gas-powered, not battery. 20 Because a lot of times one of them is already tied up, and, 21 you know, we're doing work and then the other one can be 22 used. But a Gator, not necessarily, because they're rather 23 expensive. Maybe you get what you pay for; I'm not sure 24 about that. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can you buy those 100 1 secondhand? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir, you can. That's 3 where I got this price, from a little shop that deals in 4 them. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I see any golf clubs in the 6 back of it, somebody's head's going to roll. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Won't find mine 9 there. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: But, no, that's what that is. 11 And -- all right. Number -- okay, Number 37 -- water tank 12 for truck. We have that dump truck out there now, and -- 13 and I've been trying to locate owners of these -- of the 14 companies that make these tanks that you can slide into a -- 15 into a dump truck. And, the company that Road and Bridge 16 gave me the guy's name that makes them. I can't get an 17 answer or they're out of business or something. So, I put a 18 number in there, and the reason I'm -- I did water tank is 19 that the outdoor arena that we currently have has to be 20 watered when they have their 4-H rodeo for the ropings or 21 whatever they do during the summer, because the dust is just 22 horrible. It is -- is it's an all-day job with a water 23 hose, one man standing there all day to water it. So, I -- 24 that's a number that I don't know what it's going to cost. 25 I would estimate somewhere around 2,000 for a tank. Maybe 101 1 Leonard could shed better light on that, but I don't know. 2 That's the best guess I've come up with. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that the only use for 4 it? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, around the roads and stuff 6 to settle that dust in those parking areas, too. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, you could put a 8 sprinkler system around the rails to water that one field 9 pretty easily with a valve -- hand valve. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's a good thought. That 11 might be cheaper. That's a good point. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a dust 13 problem on the inside arena too? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, we have a sprinkler system 15 in there. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the water truck 18 certainly is more versatile. You can use it for other -- 19 like, Road and Bridge could borrow it then. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: But, Number 4, cutting torch, 21 the -- the reason I'm putting this in here is that -- and we 22 have never been denied borrowing from Road and Bridge. I'll 23 tell you that right now; they have been very helpful. When 24 we have needed a cutting torch, they'll lend it to me. But, 25 I think that, you know, it's getting to the time where we 102 1 really should have some of this equipment ourselves, because 2 if we break something, we spend time over there trying to 3 get it, pick it up, or ask Ray if we can drive over there 4 with his truck. He's got it on his truck. And I think it 5 would be better if we did it ourselves or had our own 6 equipment. The welder pretty much is my last choice. That, 7 and a tractor-tiller attachment. The tiller attachment 8 is -- that's not necessary. Quite frankly, I put it in 9 because the ropers like it, okay? When -- the ropers want 10 the roping boxes softer, and the only other way that you can 11 do it without a tiller attachment is physically go out there 12 with a grubbing hoe and hoe it up, just dig it up during an 13 event. And, it gets rather time-consuming, and so -- so 14 this was one of those things that I put in. It would be 15 nice, but from a -- from a total program, not necessary. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- is that for a 17 tractor? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, Mm-hmm. And then the 19 portable welder. I would like one, but if it doesn't work 20 in this year's budget, I can do without it. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions on the Hill Country 22 Youth Exhibition Center budget? Let's do the Jail 23 Maintenance budget right quick, which is behind Tab 14, or 24 in back of that tab. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: This one's higher. This one 103 1 here, on salary, what we've done -- the Sheriff yesterday, 2 did he mention the work-release program? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Funding for a supervisor of 5 that program? He and I had -- I would like to think of it 6 as a partnership to a certain extent, because he has 7 promised me the availability of employees within the 8 Sheriff's Department/Jail to work with supervising 9 maintenance inside the jail, cleaning in the Sheriff's 10 Department, with this particular program and with his 11 cooperation of that, we are going to -- my involvement would 12 be to fund through my Maintenance Department the amount of 13 money that it's going to take to pay people -- these guards, 14 or my -- my former employee, if he is hired, the employee, 15 Phil, who is a certified peace officer. If a door is broken 16 or something is broken when he gets in in the afternoons -- 17 after his work-release program, he comes in. If he has to 18 stay till 6:30 or 7:00 to fix something, that money from 19 5 o'clock, whatever it is, to that 7 o'clock is really a 20 maintenance issue, not a Sheriff's issue. Or call-outs on 21 Saturday and Sundays, because it's not law enforcement. And 22 I may -- I put the $1,000 in there. I don't know what it's 23 going to be. I really don't know how many hours it's going 24 to require. I do know one of us, either he or myself, or 25 one of the -- the detention officers, are called out at 104 1 least once every weekend, one of us is, to fix something 2 over there. So, I know that it would be at least four hours 3 on the weekend, average, during the year that someone has to 4 go in to do something or another, to address something or 5 another. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're salaried; you 7 don't get paid. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's right, I know. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You should take all those 10 calls. That would solve the problem. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. I try. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anything else? 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, and on jail repairs, as 14 you know, that one has been busted big time for quite some 15 time. When we get the -- the contracts for services; i.e., 16 plumbing, electrical, and air-conditioning, I really feel we 17 can save some money on this budget on repairs and 18 maintenance. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn, would you 20 explain something to me? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A little bit related 23 here. When -- it seems to me that one of your major 24 problems, particularly with the Ag Barn, is the setting up 25 and tearing down. That is a major thing for events. 105 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And through the years, 3 you've relied on -- what do you call that program, the 4 weekend warrior crowd? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Community Service and Swap. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Community Service 7 bunch, relied on them, and some of them showed -- may show, 8 may not show kind of thing, so you can't -- I mean, that's a 9 problem. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With this Swap Program 12 that the Sheriff is talking about, I mean, those people are 13 a captive audience, and you can transport them across the 14 street. I mean, are y'all going to do that? 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Absolutely, sir. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And he's -- 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Absolutely. Tickled to death 18 with doing it. You're going to see them here mowing these 19 yards. You're going to see them here doing these flower 20 beds. They are going to do pushing the mowers wherever we 21 push mowers. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're preaching now. 23 Look at him out there preaching. Boy -- 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, no, I really -- I am a 25 believer in the program, Buster. I really am. 106 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was specifically 2 talking about over at that Ag Barn. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Setting up. And I 5 hope you buy them -- I hope they bought those orange suits 6 that says, I am a prisoner. I'm all for that. But setting 7 up and tearing down at that Ag Barn, that's a major deal to 8 me. 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: Absolutely. Doing it -- we're 10 doing it currently with trustees, with -- Phil's supervising 11 them. And if we didn't have them, we'd really be in trouble 12 right now. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see, okay. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: And it's working extremely 15 well. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm in favor of the 17 program. I've expressed that yesterday to the Sheriff, but 18 it does lead me to ask the question, if you're going to use 19 them at all these work-related situations, where they're 20 engaged in using heavy equipment and engaged in taking -- 21 perhaps taking down the chutes and putting them up and 22 change-over for events and so forth, what happens in terms 23 of insurance and workers compensation, for example, if one 24 of them is injured while working for us in this capacity? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I think they're 107 1 exempt. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think they are, too. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I couldn't hear the 4 answer. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: I said, I think they're 6 exempt. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Think they're exempt. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need to 9 know the answer to that. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I know that Community Service 11 workers are. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mm-hmm. We got bandaids out 13 there. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand, and I'm 15 not against the program. I just don't want us to get -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A lawsuit. A lot of 17 suit-happy people out there. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- in a lawsuit. 19 Some guy says he wrenched his back and can no longer be a 20 decent, participating, productive human being again. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, like he was. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like he was. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: I really believe that this 24 program -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sorry, Judge. Not 108 1 here to answer that question. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Could possibly save -- save 3 the taxpayers one or two employees. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- it has 5 great potential. I'm not against it. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think it can. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not only have 10 bandaids, but we're going to have to buy a bus to haul the 11 jail nurses around before it's over with. Never seen 12 anything like it in my life. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn, are you going 14 to -- on the service contracts, when do you plan to go out 15 with those so they'll be -- I mean, I was thinking if you 16 get it done before the budget process is over, then we can 17 have real numbers to really push into a lot of this. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Commissioner, they're still in 19 in the County Attorney's office. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Enough said. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as -- as soon as 23 it comes out of the County Attorney's office, you can get 24 them out relatively quickly? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. 109 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'm sorry, I -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And this $60,000 4 number, is that based on sort of the historical stuff -- 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Of what's happened this year. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- of last year? 7 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we didn't have -- 9 and if we didn't have the contracts? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, that's probably a 12 good number to stick in there for now. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: With the work program that we 14 are putting into place in October, there's a good 15 possibility we'll have an air-conditioning guy in jail at 16 just about any time of the year. We may have an electrician 17 in there any time of the year, and we are going to utilize 18 these people's talents. We are going to use them for 19 changing filters up on that roof. Buster, I'm doing it for 20 you. But, I really -- I really believe that this program 21 will help alleviate some of these maintenance costs that we 22 have currently had to -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can get those horse 24 stalls cleaned up, right? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: We started on that today. 110 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you really? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Trying to figure out how we're 3 going to lift them up. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Skid steers -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Skid those steers 6 up -- let them walk up instead of skidding them up. I don't 7 know whether you are -- 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: And then the park you want to 9 do tomorrow? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, Friday. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Now, y'all are going to have 14 to hold your other budgets, because some of this is going to 15 be a crossover into parks when we get to it Friday. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see parks -- oh, 17 yeah, Permanent Improvement and Parks. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. Will that work for 19 y'all? 'Cause one of the employees is -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Maybe we should ask 21 that question right quick of the Judge, 'cause he may know 22 the answer. If a prisoner on a work release program is 23 injured, is he eligible for workmen's compensation? 24 (Judge Henneke shrugged his shoulders.). 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the answer we 111 1 got from Glenn. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: The answer is probably not. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, I think that's 4 right. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Anything else? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thanks, Glenn. Road 8 and Bridge -- I'm sorry, Animal and Environment. Animal is 9 Tab 20. 10 MR. ALLEN: My major change in my budget is 11 I'm asking for a kennel worker. The reason we're asking for 12 a kennel worker is due to the -- to all the call -- extra 13 call-outs we're having, and its all stems back to the rabies 14 problem I'm having. What's happening is we've tried to run 15 the shelter with just four people, and I need to have the 16 officers out on the street instead of running the shelter. 17 So, what's happening is I get all these after-hour calls, 18 and I'm having to let them off, paying them comp time, so 19 then I'm running short and I don't have anybody to cover the 20 shelter, and it's just kind of like a Catch 22. And, the 21 increase in calls is just -- I mean, it's been horrendous 22 since the rabies scare we've had. I guess, what, 14 cases 23 now in the last 15 months. So, just kind of -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that salary $13,753 -- 25 that's annual salary? 112 1 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, that's just entry level. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 MR. ALLEN: That's all the person does, is 4 clean up after the dogs and -- and pretty much help the 5 officers when they come in. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Marc, I've got one 7 question on computer software. Is that for a PC? Is that 8 sort of the -- that computer software, Item 526 -- 9 MR. ALLEN: 562. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that -- 11 MR. ALLEN: We need some kind of programming 12 or somebody to teach us some kind of programming to enter 13 our calls and our bites. We're having -- I mean, everything 14 is a paper chase right now. Everything. I mean, we just -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do you have a PC on 16 hand now? 17 MR. ALLEN: Yeah. It's outdated; it's really 18 slow. I mean, everything we've got is outdated. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: But it's not a real hardware 20 you need, but you need a program that you can use in order 21 to keep data on? 22 MR. ALLEN: Right. Tommy, some kind of 23 Excel, Microsoft Office, maybe all of it? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Marc, how -- are you 25 finished? How is it working with the City interlocal 113 1 agreement? Is that -- I mean -- 2 MR. ALLEN: So far, I'm not having any 3 complaints. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- I can't 5 remember what the funding breakdown is, but do you think 6 it's sufficient to cover -- 7 MR. ALLEN: Yeah. It's going to go up this 8 year, 'cause we didn't redo it last year, we didn't redo 9 their bill last year. We didn't send them anything, so they 10 paid the same thing they did the year before, but they paid 11 40 percent of the cost to operate the shelter, and then 12 40 percent of what it cost to do the actual Animal Control 13 in the city. So, this year, that's going to go up. I'm 14 not -- from $55,000 to right around $60,000 is what we 15 figured. I've been working with Steve Canny (sic) on 16 numbers, and that's what we've come up with so far. That's 17 almost a $5,000 increase. 18 (Discussion off the record.). 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still a good deal for 20 them. 21 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, it is. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And for us. 23 MR. ALLEN: Yeah, all the way around. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any other questions of 25 Marc? 114 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your bottom line, 2 Marc, that does not include that kennel worker, right? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, it does. 4 MR. ALLEN: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, it does. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does? 7 MR. ALLEN: Yeah. Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are you getting 9 that extra 13 in there? I don't see it. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Capital Outlay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, the Capital 12 Outlay went down. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And several other -- 14 MR. ALLEN: Yeah. We put that position -- we 15 got the new truck, and now we're just hurting on -- I mean, 16 we're running short-handed all the time. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. Thank you. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good job of following 20 the budget guidelines. Get the budget in, move things 21 around where you think you need it, and tell us about it. 22 MR. ALLEN: I came in under last year. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go. Very 24 good. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thanks, Marc. 115 1 MR. ALLEN: Okay. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Chuck? You going to do 3 yours, or Glenn? 4 MR. BRECHER: He is. 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Y'all are tired of me. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's 23 again. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm sorry. No, it's not, 9 it's 13. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 13? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Back in -- 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: There are no changes in this 16 one. No increases. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Real good. Bye. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Do y'all want to -- for to us 19 expand our program for this year to ask for more money in 20 the grant process? Do you want me to submit for this amount 21 and justify all these line items, or is there anything else? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In your -- in the 23 first -- in the first grant, y'all got a person, a truck, 24 and a computer, and it's basically -- 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, basically. 116 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- basically it. And 2 then last year -- we're going for the third grant, aren't 3 we? 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And last year you 6 didn't upgrade anything, remained the same. What other 7 areas -- I mean, I like the program. I'm a big fan of the 8 program. How can we enhance that program, as far as asking 9 for -- what would we ask for more in a grant? 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: You want us to buy a spy 11 camera? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Spy camera? Is that 13 what you said? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's what I said. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Spy camera. 16 THE WITNESS: That's what AACOG has been 17 trying real hard for us to acquire. It's about a $7,000 18 piece of equipment. If you can set it in a log and put it 19 out there on the road where the people are illegally 20 dumping, and -- you go along and monitor it. We've been 21 fighting this, so we really don't want to get into that 22 angle, but it's up to the Court if they wish to go that 23 route. But we've been resisting the -- the Director of 24 Solid Waste has been encouraging us to do it, and I keep 25 telling her that we really don't want to do that yet. 117 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell us why. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think we're going to get 3 more on that tape than we really want to handle on Solid 4 Waste. 5 (Laughter.). 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next year you'll want 7 an editor, right? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's right. So -- no. Do 9 you -- do y'all want a more proactive program? Do you -- do 10 you want more hours out of Mr. Brecher? Do you want him -- 11 do you want to try to go for more than 15 hours a week? 12 Things like this I need to know when we start preparing the 13 grants. We can justify it if the Court wishes to expand the 14 program. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The answer is yes -- 16 if we do it with grant money, I think yes, because we have 17 got -- as our population grows, and particularly in our -- 18 in our river areas, we've got some real solid waste 19 problems. And, in fact, I've never seen it as bad in 20 Precinct 4 around the river as it has been this year, this 21 spring. That's -- and that's across-the-board. That's 22 dumping solid waste or -- or it's dumping it next to the 23 river, in the right-of-ways and county right-of-ways. I -- 24 I would love to have a video tape of the person that's 25 dumping it right by the river out off of 1340. 118 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On C.P. River Road. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, I would love to 3 have a tape of that one, because it's the same -- it's the 4 same day or same night it's occurring almost every time. 5 And sometimes it's garbage, sometimes it's -- it's picnic 6 trash, sometimes it's -- it's household garbage with dirty 7 diapers and all that kind of thing. Yes, I think the answer 8 is -- and perhaps it's more time so that the -- we can just 9 follow up on more, perhaps. Maybe that's the answer. But I 10 think if we can expand the program with grant money, we 11 certainly ought to dry. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that kind of 13 thing come under the definition of solid waste? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: What's -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trash. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, most definitely. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trash and cars that 18 have been sitting there over a period of time, and -- 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- those kinds of 21 things. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me come at it 24 from the back door. Is Chuck willing to work more? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is an excellent 119 1 question. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And are we getting 3 done what we want to get done with the number of hours that 4 we're putting in now? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, currently we're 6 reacting -- we react to complaints. That's a stand that 7 we've taken. We have not taken a proactive approach to 8 going out and just snooping everywhere, looking for a pile 9 of trash. We base it on complaints. He follows them up and 10 deals with them as he goes. If we take a proactive approach 11 to this, there will be more patrol, there will be more 12 expense with fuel. I think Mr. Brecher, due to his Social 13 Security status and that sort of thing, I think that is 14 something he needs to tell us. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's going to 16 change. He can earn as much as he wants to earn. 17 MR. BRECHER: I'm not old enough for that yet, 18 sir, but I've been getting close. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: But, what I'm saying is -- but 20 if the Court wants this, there are a lot of people out there 21 that would love a 15-, 16-hour a week job, another one, to 22 do certain programs. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we are hearing that 24 is the answer is yes. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 120 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go for what we can get, and 2 then we'll rearrange. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get the camera, too. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Camera, too? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I'm not sure it's only 6 camera funding. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It can be beneficial, but 8 it can also get into privacy. I mean, if -- the guidelines 9 have to be pretty clear as to when it's to be used. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, yeah. You need to 11 be clear that you're not going to do it on private property. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'd want the County 13 Attorney to tell us about that. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: On River Road, it's going to 15 be picked up. Somebody's going to take it. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, yeah. People out 17 there will generally police it up themselves. But there is 18 one area -- it's not on River Road; it's another river 19 crossing, but -- 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'll -- let me do some 21 checking. I got till next week to get the grant together. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 MR. BRECHER: The one thing we are doing, we 24 react to complaints from y'all, or citizenry. At the same 25 time, when I'm driving around the county, if I see what's -- 121 1 what's a very obvious violation, I try to take care of that 2 matter, have the people clean it up. Sometimes you can't 3 figure out who left it there. Road and Bridge is notified 4 if it's on a county road, and they come pick it up. 5 Sometimes, if I think there's evidence in the pile of solid 6 waste, I'm not going to stand beside a busy highway digging 7 through there. I just throw it in the back of the truck. 8 In that case, it's a small bunch of stuff. I pick it up and 9 take care of it, go to a dumpster and go through it that 10 way. And, that's the way the program has been working. If 11 you want to change anything, let me know and I'll be willing 12 to do it any way you want it done. 13 MR. HOLLAND: I can attest to that. I have seen 14 him digging through. I wondered what he was doing. I asked 15 him if he was hungry. I've seen him digging through the 16 trash in the dumpster, so that the true. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Boy, that timing was -- he was 18 looking for his lunch. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you, guys. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank y'all. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we need to take about 22 five minutes, let Kathy have a breather. Let's come back at 23 3 o'clock, okay? 24 (Recess taken from 2:55 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 122 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We'll reconvene this 2 budget workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. The 3 next department to be considered is the Road and Bridge 4 Department. Leonard Odom, Road Administrator. Leonard and 5 I just had a brief discussion, and we're going to start with 6 the Special Projects budget, and that has most of the -- 7 it's Tab 23. That has most of the changes in it. And, if 8 anyone has any questions about the administrative or the 9 other budget, we'll return to it. Leonard, walk us through 10 what you've got. 11 MR. ODOM: All right, sir. What we're 12 proposing for 2000/2001 budget is the High Water Bridge. 13 The contract on the bridge is to start it beginning of 2001; 14 January of 2001, I believe. I believe this month that it 15 goes to Austin. We'll have a better tweaking of the 16 numbers. But, at this time, TexDOT resident engineer 17 estimates that we would have $200,000 to participate in the 18 High Water Bridge, plus the right-of-way purchase. And the 19 right-of-way is covered with the $30,000 requested in the 20 Schreiner Trust Fund, which is also what I have at Sheppard 21 Rees; $30,000 is the estimated cost for the -- our 22 acquisition of right-of-way off Dr. Lewis' property, I 23 believe. I don't know if that's appropriate to say names, 24 but anyway, slip of the tongue. There are some properties 25 there, and they are discussing that. 123 1 They're doing a survey, and so that's not 2 firm, but they felt that that number was -- was justifiable. 3 And we had discussed previously with the Court the Schreiner 4 Trust Fund, so to be -- as it was set up, is to be Precinct 5 1 and Precinct 4, which fits this criteria. I'm not -- we 6 won't get into other -- but basically, that's reason 7 Schreiner Trust Fund was set up, for the west end of the 8 county, and I have -- we've already conveyed that 9 information and talked to Commissioner Griffin and 10 Mr. Baldwin and have been out there to look at that site. 11 So, I think it's a good project, and I think that $30,000 is 12 justifiable. 13 If you don't mind, we'll go back up to the 14 top where it says the High Water Bridge. I've plugged in 15 $200,000 for that. This is something that we've been saving 16 over the last four years, but I haven't been going 17 beyond the license fees, and we've just been sitting back -- 18 we have never accounted for that, because it was an 19 accounting-type situation. There's no sense plugging in the 20 number over the last four budgets if you weren't going to 21 use it. It showed -- it would just be floating out there, 22 so we just left it in general revenues. Now's the time to 23 go ahead and make this three and a half million project come 24 down. 25 On Upper Turtle Creek, I have $23,200. 124 1 That's a draw from last -- this budget year, which I had 2 $35,700 in. That is basically to complete, probably, the -- 3 the last of Hazelet (?) deal. We still do have have the 4 utilities removed, so we're going a half a mile and rebuild 5 that. We've still -- probably the last of this month, 6 sometime in August at the latest, we'll sealcoat that. That 7 will be the end of that. We'll wait till the next budget 8 year until we clear utilities. 9 Let's go on out to Upper Turtle Creek. I 10 have $18,000. If you look -- I don't know if, Buster, 11 you've seen that one or not. It goes off a cliff, about a 12 100-foot cliff back there. We think the 232 would work. 13 And if it doesn't finish it, that's what the 18,000 backup 14 is for. But also we also have Keith Boulevard, and you and 15 I have looked at that as you go up. That -- that 18,000 16 would cover that project, if I can complete Hazelet's deal 17 on that backside there for this 232. We feel like we can 18 make it work. The 18,000 for the 2001/2002 budget is for 19 Keith Boulevard there. Okay? 20 Also, on Elm Pass, I have $16,600. That 21 is -- we have the program for Elm Pass to -- out of contract 22 fees to be working on that, Bill. And, this is something 23 you requested of me, and I've been putting off. One reason 24 is not to stripe, because I had not completed Elm Pass. We 25 wanted to go there, Pecan Valley to Elm Pass 2, which will 125 1 be complete this year. All the way around there now will no 2 longer be dirt, and that we wish to do what we can in there 3 for a double penetration. That's basically what that is. 4 That's how much it costs to get to the bridge. As I was 5 telling you, the stripe won't go farther because there's 6 some work I want to do up front later on when I start on the 7 back end. If you look at this out to 2002 and 2003, that is 8 giving me time; that is for the remainder from Elm Pass 2 to 9 the county line that we just marked. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bandera County? 11 MR. ODOM: To Bandera County line. That is 12 for the work that I want to do there, but right now I have 13 some problems knowing where my right-of-way's at. And I've 14 been working with Voelkel, and that's -- I think that it 15 will take till next year, possibly the following year, to 16 clear all that up. Just -- just the way things run right 17 now. I've got line-of-sight problems and fences and -- and 18 he cannot give me a -- an exclusive answer where my 19 right-of-way's at. A lot of it's by prescription. 20 Go down to the west end projects; I'm a 21 little bit below this year's at ninety -- 96 versus 95 for 22 the proposed new budget. That is to work on, Larry, for -- 23 for Leinweber, on that back end and get across that north 24 fork, and the possibility, if I have some savings, to go to 25 Clark. If not, then you're looking at the 2001/2002 budget. 126 1 That $38,000 will complete Clark, but I assure you that I 2 probably will use most of that money with concrete in that 3 north fork of that crossing there, as well as just that 4 solid rock up in there. That Leinweber is a real tough 5 project, but that would complete your end. And then we have 6 a few more into that subdivision. One road I think Turkey 7 Drop, we'll pick up in contract fees. On general upgrades, 8 essentially what I'm looking at, I go back to Precinct 2 and 9 I look at McDonald Loop. I do not believe we're going to 10 try to do a half a mile from Lazy Valley, from where Mr. 11 Letz picks that up, we completed two years ago. Go back to 12 the sealcoat. But right now, the water master has put us on 13 hold, and that we're not working with them to finish what we 14 have, but not to start anything new. So, I -- I don't see 15 this lifting anytime soon, but we -- maybe in the fall, 16 September, maybe things will change. And that we would have 17 the opportunity, if -- you cannot build a road without 18 having water to process it, so that is sort of dead. And 19 what I'm looking at is McDonald Loop. After that, 20 essentially as we go down Evans Road, is $35,000 what I 21 project to do that we also found the county line there, and 22 where we thought it was -- it's a little bit farther back 23 into what Bandera's been maintaining for me. And -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful. 25 MR. ODOM: I really appreciate it. But we 127 1 know where our limits are at now. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 MR. ODOM: And so, we -- we hope that 4 essentially when I went back up to the general upgrade for 5 McDonald Loop, we don't see anything projecting out we think 6 we have you pretty well in control. Southern Lane is 7 something that I address in the 2001/2002, that entrance. 8 And we've talked Joe Drymala and people, not the ones up 9 front, but you know we had right-of-way, then there was a 10 lawsuit, and then we had to back out of it. So, I need to 11 get all that right-of-way -- I only have a 20-foot 12 right-of-way there. So -- and -- and in the year's -- the 13 next budget, we haven't put together, I propose to do that 14 head wall and State right-of-way right there, so I can tie 15 all that in. You know where I'm talking about, Henry 16 Gregor's (sic) right in the $30,000 we've already discussed 17 is for right-of-way. When I go over -- shift over to 2001 18 and 2002, Sheppard Rees, I'm proposing 100,000 in there. 19 That is essentially -- we think by the time we get through 20 getting our right-of-way and getting it cleared, I want to 21 buy our material. Base, guardrails, all that, have it 22 stockpiled out there, and then the next year, to -- as you 23 see, 251,000, that is to go in and get after the project. 24 We will get that sector built as well as maybe a little bit 25 beyond. But I have over 84,000 yards of cut, and 80,000 in 128 1 fill. It's going to be pretty expensive making that cut and 2 maintaining that grade up that thing that we've already got 3 designed, so that 251 takes care of the construction. 4 100,000 just basically buying material, getting it ready, 5 and then once I get it in place, we go. In the next budget 6 year, the Sheppard Rees will, God willing, be history. 7 Also, on Beach Road, I have a project there that is where 8 the pavement ends, it goes back to the end. I want to 9 maintain that all the way to the back, Larry, and then twist 10 your arm on get me an airplane and let me look at that site 11 back in that area. There are some discussions in the future 12 of -- of a possibility of linking up 27 and 1340 over there. 13 Would take off 5 points, is the problem. That's the reason 14 we went to High Water Bridge. Ingram has a problem, 'cause 15 there's no way to come back over and get back to Hunt or 16 anywhere else in there without going through Ingram. So, 17 it's logical to finish what we have. It's dirt. I blade it 18 once or twice a year, that's about it, for hunters. And, 19 you know, it's something to look at from there. I don't 20 know what it looks like till we get in the air, but that's 21 something I wanted to look at, and a possibility of -- in 22 this decade, to look at projects. Also, while I'm thinking 23 about it, there are some projects at Waldemar and Quinn 24 Crossing that the Highway Department's looking at. And, so, 25 all this sort of falls in line with upgrading those 129 1 low-water crossings there. And, it won't get it out of the 2 water, but it will sure get people across a whole lot 3 quicker if the State finishes that, and that's a project 4 that they looked at 26 years ago, and it's now -- as a High 5 Water Bridge, you know in the 70's looking at it. So those 6 things are coming. That's why we'd like to go with Beach 7 Road, that $20,000. Pike's Peak is $72,250. You know where 8 I'm talking about, from Rocky Mill there, and going back. 9 That's all dirt and solid rock. Again, tough project, but 10 it can be done. I need that type of money probably to 11 finish it and seal it, clear the right-of-ways of fences, et 12 cetera. Probably utility poles, too. But that's what that 13 project is in, in 2001/2002, Buster. East Real is also in 14 your sector there. That's another little road that goes 15 back to nowhere and just ends back in there, and we think 16 that would -- that would basically take care of that Spicer 17 area and total back there, we've got all that rebuilt and 18 tidied up. South end projects, what I talked about is at 19 the entrance for the State, is to take that head wall down 20 and widen it so when I get that right-of-way, we can handle 21 that in-house. The direction of the Court is, if it's less 22 than a mile, we can do it. So, we would do that in-house 23 and we would tie River Road into Highway 27 right there with 24 about a minimum of 24-foot pavement, maybe 30 in there. 25 Then, that should cover -- that's your three years proposed 130 1 out there for we think at that point we'll be very close, 2 good Lord willing, this Aggie doesn't have lapse of memory, 3 I should have -- we should have our dirt roads completed. 4 There might be something out there. The only other one 5 would be in yours, Larry, that we talked about. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 7 MR. ODOM: What is it, Cuthbert? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Cutbert. 9 MR. ODOM: Cutburt. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, two things. At 11 what point do you plan to recommend putting the Hermann Sons 12 bridge on your -- would it come under Special Projects or 13 elsewhere with State funding? 14 MR. ODOM: I would say Special Projects. 15 What I sort of looked at next year, when I start doing the 16 budget for -- what is that, 2003/2004? That I would start 17 putting money in there for the Hermann Sons bridge, so -- 18 look at that. Also, I want to be looking at Upper Turtle 19 Creek. I want to do engineering ahead of time. But, my -- 20 the game plan was -- my game plan was to -- this decade. 21 Was when we have our roads -- and our responsibilities are a 22 mandate of the Court; it would take us about this length of 23 time to do 10 miles a year, which it took 10 years to get 24 100 miles of roads that we had. So, that's coming down, and 25 I felt like between 2000 and 2010, that's when we would 131 1 start the up -- the infrastructure. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other question, on 3 Stoneleigh, you don't have anything listed there, but you 4 had a -- I was wondering. You don't have a zero, either. 5 Is that Stoneleigh the straightening out of Stoneleigh, or 6 does that come under a -- 7 MR. ODOM: That would come under contract 8 fees. Basically, we'd go in there under contract fees and 9 work that in. That's why you're by the schoolhouse and all 10 in there. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By the schoolhouse 12 straightening out coming off -- 13 MR. ODOM: Right, coming off that cattle 14 guard right there, we see that in-house. With some other 15 line items would cover me with base and things like that. 16 That's something Douglas would get into, and we would run 17 our own crews in there. I don't guess -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not a real big project. 19 THE WITNESS: I don't see that as a big 20 project. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, Monday 23 during the break, you mentioned that there might be some 24 possibility that the interior driveway of the courthouse 25 square here could be a special project. Can you address 132 1 that, how you saw that as a potential/possibility? 2 MR. ODOM: As a potential possibility? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Potential or a 4 possibility. 5 MR. ODOM: Yes, let's probably put that 6 hyphen in there. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put that slash in 8 there. 9 MR. ODOM: We were just mentioning that -- we 10 were mentioning to Bill that there is a possibility, if you 11 wanted -- we don't know how the Court feels, and that's 12 something you're going to address or may address today, but 13 you may look at the long-term effect of doing concrete. I 14 looked at the possibilities of what Glenn had said, and by 15 the time -- and I think I said to the Court, by the time you 16 got through with extending that grass area on back up to 17 the -- to the sidewalk, that the cost would go up. Just to 18 have curb and gutter at the end would cost you $6 to $8 a 19 linear foot, so that's on top of that, and plus that 15-foot 20 area. And the live trees that you have, you're going to 21 lose parking areas as well as those gas meters that are out 22 there. So, I couldn't see if you -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Won't gain much. 24 MR. ODOM: Yeah. I only saw -- the 25 difference of what we're doing -- what was proposed was 133 1 seven cars. And then, if you look, however it hit, you're 2 probably only going to have three to five cars and do all 3 that work for nothing. So, if you stayed within the curbs 4 and you did a concrete on this whole thing, we're not 5 looking at seven or ten years before you'd have to probably 6 do something else to the deal. We're talking about a 7 generation, 25, 35, 50 years. I -- you know, whatever is 8 feasible at that time. But you're talking about another 9 generation with solid concrete, and you're probably looking 10 at $2 a square foot. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Roughly. 12 MR. ODOM: 65,000 -- what Glenn gave us was 13 65,000 square feet out here, so that's a large project. But 14 it might be something that the Court would consider. We 15 normally take the special projects and we -- we put a 16 priority into it, but it's something that -- that through 17 time -- and basically, we've gone to Court and said, "This 18 is what we'd like to do." And, of course, we're generous to 19 follow that, but that doesn't -- there's also that priority. 20 I think when y'all set it up, basically, there was an 21 opportunity for the Court to participate into some of this 22 with the license fees. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: There is -- this would be a 24 special, you know, quote, project, but would it not come out 25 of general revenues, as opposed to the lateral road fund? 134 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: Come out of different funding 3 category, I think. But, you know, certainly Road and Bridge 4 could do it. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy, what do you think? 6 Would it come out of the lateral road fund, or -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't think there's any 8 reason why it couldn't come out of the Special Projects 9 fund. The license fees -- 10 MR. ODOM: Yeah, that's the way I -- I don't 11 mean to be -- belittling Frank here, but I sort of taking 12 the license fees the way the special projects were set up is 13 that we gave latitude to the Court. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: When you said 65,000 square 15 feet, is that just to resurface the drive? 16 MR. ODOM: That's to resurface the drive -- 17 no, sir, only the circle here. That's what was 18 originally -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And concrete 20 65,000 feet that you're talking about the -- in concrete. 21 MR. ODOM: In concrete. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As opposed to -- 23 MR. ODOM: To doing the mat and the double 24 penetration. Of course, we're looking at $15,000 versus 25 $130,000, and it may be a little bit more, give or take. 135 1 Myself, if you're going to do it, I would take the curbs out 2 and I'd put me a new curb and gutter in here, and then tie 3 it in with cement, and then you're talking about a 4 generation. All you have t do is stripe it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I'm more in favor 6 of patching with the sealcoat. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think would too. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just can't see the 9 budget, where it is right now, with $30,000 on a parking 10 lot. 11 MR. ODOM: I would suggest putting it off a 12 year or so before you would jump on it. But this year, 13 we're -- we got the High Water Bridge and -- and -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could we -- this year, 15 could we work in -- what was it, $20,000? How much, 16 $13,000? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think just to put 18 the double penetration was twelve thirty-five or something 19 like that. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, and then I suggested 21 maybe we do that Petro mat for another $2,500. That would 22 put you -- I really think Franklin had a good idea. I was 23 going to go with the trim, and I just totally forgot about 24 that Petro mat. And I told you before, I have done it, and 25 the reflectivity, the cracking in that movement of that 136 1 ground -- that mat, the ground can move. And that's why you 2 have base failures, because the fill is sitting on top, and 3 that ground starts shaking. Then the fines(?) settle, the 4 big aggregate comes up. That's how you get a base failure. 5 Well, this mat sits on the top; it can move all it wants to. 6 That vibration that's taking out your base is sort of 7 stabilized on that thing, so it's really a good idea for 8 $2,500 more, is what Rufus Walker said. 9 MR. JOHNSTON: It's $5,000 more. 10 MR. ODOM: By the time you take out a triple 11 to make it a double, you're only going to spend about 12 $2,500. It's our labor and equipment. I think that's the 13 way to go. And you -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would do the 15 inroads. 16 MR. ODOM: That would do the inroads. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now, the parking lots 18 were what $8,000? 19 MR. ODOM: No, sir. I think that they were 20 $3,500, $3,300, something like that. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, they weren't 22 much? 23 MR. ODOM: They weren't much. This over 24 here, this what I was saying. This is very inexpensive for 25 the seven slots over here. And we're out of their way, 137 1 which I don't think they're going to be back over there. 2 This one here, you're going to have to wait until they're 3 probably totally out, even if they move the dirt. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May be a construction 5 offset, because they don't have to put it back the way it 6 was. 7 MR. ODOM: I'm sure they're going to use that 8 as a stockpile there until they finish the interior of that 9 building, so it's going to be -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have to wait on 11 them. 12 MR. ODOM: Have to wait on it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When would we -- if 14 we can do the driveway and the parking areas, what would 15 your schedule permit? 16 MR. ODOM: Give me a schedule when they're 17 complete here. I would not suggest anything. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, no. No, but I'm 19 talking broad terms, Leonard. I'm sorry. Next fiscal year? 20 Following fiscal year? I mean, you know, money's one thing, 21 but your availability is another thing. 22 MR. ODOM: Availability is another thing, and 23 availability of the Court. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could you do it -- 25 could do you it next fiscal year? 138 1 MR. ODOM: Next fiscal year, which is October 2 1 to October -- yes, I would work it -- that's the way I 3 planned on doing it. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: We were talking about 5 probably next spring. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next summer? Spring? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whenever. 8 MR. ODOM: Sure. When they're -- if they're 9 ever through here, that would work in. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: How much do we want to add? 12 Approximately $18,000 for the driveway and the two parking 13 lots? 14 MR. ODOM: I would sort of give myself a 15 little -- you saw what the oil did. And it's such a short 16 period of time. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably for both. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Twenty for all of it? 19 That would come out of Special Projects? 20 MR. ODOM: That's up to y'all, but this 21 number would change down here. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's something we 23 ought to put in right now and -- you know, we may have to 24 cut it. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we ought to put it 139 1 in, too. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- it's 3 something we need to take care of. 4 MR. ODOM: But you are in agreement with what 5 we've already talked about on Special Projects? Do we have 6 any problem with the money that we've allocated? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 8 MR. ODOM: We're still staying about the same 9 all the way through, with the exception of High Water 10 Bridge. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that money's 12 already indicated. 13 MR. ODOM: Well, teh $200,000 has already 14 been sitting in reserves. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's just a 16 matter of plugging it in. 17 MR. ODOM: Well, I've already plugged that 18 in. I've plugged in 476 versus 276. 19 MR. MONROE: Right. 20 MR. ODOM: But I'm saying this $18,000 is 21 something, you know, you can plug extra. But, we've 22 essentially kept our budget the same. Now, when I get on 23 out there and into the future, you can see an increase, I 24 think, in the 2003 budget there, 2002/2003. But I just -- 25 we're probably at that point that I can't pull a rabbit out 140 1 of the hat any more. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that the consensus, that 3 we ought to add approximately $20,000 in Special Projects 4 for next fiscal year for the driveway and the parking lot? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there any -- any serious 8 reservation to that? The I think it's something we ought to 9 do, and it's timely to do it when this is done over here, 10 rather than let that settle and then come back and disrupt 11 everybody again. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sounds good. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Does anyone else have 14 any questions about the Special Projects budget? Does 15 anyone have any questions about the administrative or the 16 other Road and Bridge budgets? They're very much online 17 what they're supposed to be. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right down -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only question I have 20 is, you -- Capital Outlay. Just go over those. 21 MR. ODOM: All right. What would you like to 22 know, sir? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just where the 151,000 -- 24 MR. ODOM: $151,298. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which budget are you 141 1 in? 2 MR. ODOM: 611. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Road and Bridge budgets. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 611, okay. 5 MR. ODOM: This -- I don't think that we were 6 asked to send that in. Let me go through there, and I'll be 7 more than happy. The 600 -- you have one item for Capital 8 Outlay there. That 600 was computer printer/scanner and 9 software was $3,300. And I believe, Larry, that Truby had 10 talked to you about that we think we could cover that when 11 we do that. I see that the Animal Control is wanting a 12 computer. I have a 386 in there, nothing wrong with it, 13 just slow. And a lot of the things -- it won't work on the 14 newer -- what is that -- Microsoft 2000. But, you know, 15 the -- I'd be more than happy to give it -- give that over 16 to the Animal Control. If -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Our computer person 18 would probably figure out an allocation for all surplus, old 19 computers. 20 MR. ODOM: That's fine. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So -- 22 MR. ODOM: But it will be excess. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Probably not want to 24 go back to a 386, 'cause it doesn't handle Microsoft -- or 25 Windows 98 very well, or even if -- 142 1 MR. ODOM: That's the reason I want to -- 2 (Several people talking at once.) 3 MR. ODOM: Then, in 611, let me go through 4 the 2000/2001 budget and then I'll go the next three years, 5 if you like. Is that -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Really, all I was 7 concerned with is any large purchases that you're planning 8 this year, other than lease payments. 9 MR. ODOM: I'd have two foremen's trucks, 10 $49,798. That's two foremen's trucks, one-tons. Then I 11 have a 14-cubic-yard dump truck, approximately $65,000, as 12 we can get from Houston/Galveston. They're not always on. 13 Then I have chainsaws and trimmers, with the extension kind 14 on those saws, $1,900. I also have traffic counters the the 15 tubes and roadway software is $2,200. We think those are 16 excellent. We want to expand the program to give you data. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the one that 18 tells you what time of the day and the speed and the whole 19 thing? 20 MR. ODOM: Tells me the actual weight, who 21 went through there. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's some incredible 23 information. 24 MR. ODOM: It gives me the 85 percentile and 25 it gives me the average speed, it gives me 95 percentile, so 143 1 it gives you a lot of data. Just a lot of common sense, 2 and, boy, I just -- I like it. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're finding out in 4 Kerrville South -- on Ranchero Road, we found some people 5 that are going through a 30 mile-an-hour speed limit at 75 6 miles an hour. The same time of the day kind of thing. I 7 turn that information -- he gave me the information. I 8 turned it over to the Sheriff, and they're out there popping 9 them. It's great information. 10 MR. ODOM: It's great information. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unbelievable. 12 MR. ODOM: What we wanted to do was expand 13 this. It's a little bit difficult with only four. We want 14 to expand it on out to another lease, another two. We would 15 have to rotate off the sealcoat program. We get this data, 16 always have this data there as we go through. And then, 17 once we get everything maintained, we can -- if we need to 18 change it because of traffic count and go to something -- 19 other things, we have that data. But, plus, if your 20 constituents call you, we can almost give you an answer if 21 we got something based upon the last run on it. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard, do you 23 see -- your 552, do you see your asphalts, oils, and 24 emulsions staying at the same? You want to keep the figure 25 the same? 144 1 MR. ODOM: Well, you understand that the 2 program moves from a 7 to a 10, so what I've done is 3 essentially keep that number in there with a little bit of 4 inflation in there, so these numbers are coming back down 5 and reflecting a change. The only thing the aggregate has 6 done is gone to a better aggregate, to a natural limestone 7 asphalt rock, like the City uses over -- or the State, and 8 trying to get me better skid resistance out there, so that 9 price is increased, okay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My question really 11 was geared to the oil cost. 12 MR. ODOM: Due to the oil cost, I've 13 calculated that in, but if I go from $500,000 down to 385, 14 if I -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can keep the 16 same? 17 MR. ODOM: I can keep the same. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay, thank 19 you. 20 MR. ODOM: I've played the numbers to -- to 21 reflect that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 MR. ODOM: That's important use of the 24 English language. I wasn't very good at that; they asked me 25 to leave after four years. 145 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, would you be 2 kind enough to get us that capital outlay list over here? 3 MR. ODOM: Sure. Probably tomorrow. Is that 4 all right? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. Just the 6 next round. 7 MR. ODOM: I would have gave it to you, but I 8 gave what was asked of me. Like he said, well, last year we 9 gave you so much, we may inundate you. We just gave you the 10 numbers that you requested. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't get mad, just -- 12 MR. ODOM: No, I never get mad. I -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just get even? 15 MR. ODOM: High blood pressure, maybe. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other concerns about the 17 Road and Bridge budget or the other budgets? Well done. 18 MR. ODOM: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks good. 20 MR. ODOM: Okay. We'll get that for you. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks a lot, 23 Leonard. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Eddie, you're up. Tab 22. 25 MR. HOLLAND: Well, here is our capital 146 1 outlay, five copies that y'all wanted. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ho-ho-ho. 3 MR. HOLLAND: As y'all requested. I don't 4 know. That's our message, anyway. 5 MS. SQUIRES: See if we can do this first. I 6 have to leave in 15 minutes, if they don't mind. I should 7 be done. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll be done in 15 9 minutes. 10 MS. SQUIRES: Okay. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have to leave in a few 12 minutes. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thirty minutes ago. Okay. 14 Anything you want to point out to us in particular, Eddie? 15 MR. HOLLAND: Well, Janie's got a meeting at 16 10 minutes to 4:00, so if you want to go over that portion 17 of the Capital Outlay -- you wants to do that? Especially 18 the same as last year on our list. Janie, do you want to 19 come up here and talk about those? 20 MS. SQUIRES: Sure. Eddie and I will kind of 21 describe these as we go down the page. I'll talk about the 22 A.V. cart. This is for the meeting room, and we're all real 23 surprised at the cost of it; it's really kind of middle-of- 24 the-road. This is one of those that that's on wheels, and 25 it's where you set your equipment, it's already electrically 147 1 plugged in, so you're not running cords all over the room. 2 Shelves, where you can have doors to lock your equipment or 3 your film or your slides and all, so it's something we've 4 been really needing for the meeting room, and then seeing to 5 the future where it can then be wheeled over to the Expo 6 Center and used over there, too. So, it's a very good, 7 strong, sturdy audio-visual cart. 8 Moving on down past the livestock clippers, 9 we're very pleased -- two years ago, we did have a 4-H 10 clothing project. I've worked hard to develop some good 11 volunteer leaders for that and have set up a small program. 12 The thing with the clothing project is you have to have 13 sewing machines to teach the kids the project. And we have 14 two in the office, one that was there when I got to the 15 county, and it's been refurbished and tuned up, and then one 16 was donated by a friend who's in the quilt guild here in 17 town. We have two machines at the office. The -- you know, 18 that's only way they learn, is by sewing on a sewing 19 machine. The families don't have them in their homes. They 20 want their kids to learn how to sew, so these are machines 21 that we would have that the the project leaders check out, 22 and then they use, and they're really shared from Hunt to 23 Kerrville to Center Point. They're all used with these 24 4-H'ers. 25 So, this would get us -- this is an educational 148 1 price on sewing machines, so that the basic machines like 2 what's at schools -- it's just to sew a straight seam. And 3 a machine that you would buy for your home would probably 4 start at $1,000, so these are an educational cost here for 5 4-H clubs that I would get to get two sewing machines. The 6 more kids we have -- the more machines we have, the more 7 kids want to be in the project. That's kind of holding us 8 up right now. We're real pleased, we did have one winner 9 that went to the State contest, so that was where we are in 10 just that short amount of time. Having some good growth in 11 that project. 12 The next item is also tied-in with the clothing 13 project. It's a surger machine. It's a very specialized 14 machine that does special things; specifically, seam 15 finishes and things like that, that a lot of folks need as 16 part of the clothing project. And, for them to be 17 competitive in the contest, the judges and all look to see 18 how they finish their seams. So, it's a piece of equipment 19 for the clothing project that does specialized things. 20 MR. HOLLAND: Y'all can see why I wasn't 21 explaining that, because I don't -- 22 MS. SQUIRES: And, again, that is one machine, 23 and that is at an educational discount price that I've 24 checked into for home economists. Let me just finish up 25 with the things that I wanted to share with you on the 149 1 kitchen equipment. It is a public facility; a lot of people 2 do use the kitchen for different things besides educational 3 programs, plus the different lunches and functions we have 4 there. So, this would just help us purchase some more small 5 appliances, some more serving appliances for the programs we 6 do, replace some kitchen utensils and dishes and replace 7 some appliances and equipment that have, you know, been used 8 quite a bit or are no longer there that we do need to have 9 in the kitchen. So, these are the three specific items that 10 I knew a little bit more about than Eddie. Okay. 11 MR. HOLLAND: I'll let Laurinda talk about 12 the clippers for the workshops. 13 MS. BOYD: The -- one of the things that we've 14 worked really hard on is the -- our livestock program, 15 working with the kids on learning how to groom their animals 16 on their own. And, a lot of the equipment that we have is 17 really outdated, and a lot of it has quit working. We've 18 had a whole lot of it not working any more, and trying to 19 repair it is just cost-prohibitive, so we -- I started kind 20 of letting the kids use one of my clippers, and we found 21 that the kids could use them. The Staple-mate clipper is 22 real lightweight, easy to use. The kids even 6, 7 years old 23 can go and clip their own animals. And, a lot of the 24 families do not have the funds to go out and purchase 25 clippers and things. They have to rely on us having 150 1 livestock workshops for them to come up there, and these can 2 be used on the lambs, the goats, and the hogs, all the 3 species. And, it's been really fun, 'cause we got more and 4 more families coming up and learning how to do their own 5 clipping and everything. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Use them for 7 educational purposes? 8 MS. BOYD: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As well as people that 10 just, flat, don't have them? 11 MS. BOYD: Right. They just can't afford to 12 invest that much money into having -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 14 MS. BOYD -- you know, clippers and stuff. But 15 we have a real need to, you know, get two of these newer 16 kind, and then also to replace -- we have some smaller ones 17 that are for detail work, and we're down to one on those, so 18 we really have a need to replace those. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 20 MR. HOLLAND: And then we finished -- in the 21 last budget, we had some shelving. We need one other area 22 shelved in the back of the shed area, and we'd like to try 23 to be able to utilize some of our community service people 24 we get from time to time that are in -- have some skills in 25 carpentry. So, this is just strictly a cost of, like, 151 1 lumber and things to get these guys to come in there and 2 finish building. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is this? 4 MR. HOLLAND: In our shed area in our office, 5 of the meeting where it has the big overhead -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 7 MR. HOLLAND: -- pull-up door. Shelving on 8 one side. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. 10 MR. HOLLAND: To get things up off the floor. 11 And, then we'd like to replace the -- on the landscaping 12 thing, since we use that as kind of a demonstration garden 13 of the types of landscapes that we recommend on the 14 xeriscape, water conservation, whatever, we've had some that 15 when we first got started, we didn't quite get the water 16 exactly regulated and we killed some -- some of our plants, 17 and so we need to replace some of those and do some of that. 18 So, it's a landscape replacement cost, but that comes out, 19 again, to the same as last year's Capital Outlay, $3,750. I 20 think it's $10 from last year. 21 If you look at the rest of the budget, you 22 take out the one item -- which I'd like to discuss. I know 23 we don't discuss salaries or anything like that, but that's 24 really -- that's the only difference. It would be a flat 25 line, the same price on that. Our part-time -- which, you 152 1 know, she's an excellent employee, but she only works 14 2 hours a week, and you cannot -- we try. You cannot get a 3 part-time at minimum wage that can really answer the phone 4 and -- and take messages, you know, and deliver properly. 5 And this lady is excellent, but the only way we hired her -- 6 we hired her; we still are paying that 507 -- whatever it 7 is, the -- of that, the minimum. But we'd like to see if we 8 couldn't get her up to 19 hours, which is still a part-time 9 employee. In other words, no benefits, nothing, but pay her 10 at the same rate we're paying her. But, again, get her up 11 to that rate, which would take almost $1,600, which is 12 basically the difference in the budget from last year to 13 this year, to get her up to 19 hours. And, everything else 14 in there is essentially a flat line. A couple of changes, 15 just a couple hundred dollars here and there, but it comes 16 out flat-line on the budget, which is what y'all wanted. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's right. Any questions 18 or concerns? Excellent. Thank you. We appreciate your 19 coming by. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 MR. HOLLAND: One other thing that -- that is 22 something I might just, again, throw it out; it won't take 23 long. Y'all know that -- that I am going to be moving up to 24 president-elect of the National County Agent's Association, 25 and then eventually be president. And, of course, Texas 153 1 only had two previous national officers in the history of 2 the National County Agent's Association, so I'm going to 3 continue to have more and more time that I'm going to be 4 away and be gone, you know, attending the national stuff. 5 And I realize that people of Kerr County say it's nothing to 6 me, it doesn't concern me, you know. And so there may be 7 times when they say, well, where is the County Agent? Well, 8 I'm hoping -- I talked to Laurinda, and she can fill in, 9 give all these city youth and educational programs I put on 10 sometimes if we need some of -- someone in our office to 11 conduct those programs. And, so, with the change in job 12 description, she's -- now she is a nonexempt, which means -- 13 nonexempt. You know, that's compensatory time. So, you 14 know, she realizes she's going to have to keep that close 15 timesheet and all those things, but she's going to be 16 running up some hours on doing some of those things. So, 17 these are things y'all are going to have to think about down 18 the line. I just wanted to bring these out as you start 19 thinking about them, because as those jobs descriptions -- 20 those things came back, that's how they came back. Because 21 she isn't in a supervisory capacity, she doesn't hire, 22 doesn't fire, so that's nonexempt according to your deal. 23 But, you're going to be running into some extra hours on 24 there, and so that's something y'all need to consider. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thanks for the 154 1 heads-up. Anybody have any questions on that? Thanks 2 again. We will be in recess until 9:30 Friday morning. 3 (Workshop concluded at 3:40 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25