1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, July 24, 2000 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 23 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 24 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 25 ABSENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge 2 1 I N D E X July 24, 2000 PAGE 2 --- Commissioners' Comments 3 3 1.1 Pay Bills 5 1.2 Budget Amendments 5 4 1.3 Late Bills 16 1.4 Read and Accept Monthly Reports 17 5 6 2.1 Subdivision Rules & Regs, set public hearing 18 2.2 Variance for Tract 204, Turtle Creek Ranches 19 7 2.3 Preliminary plat, Nickerson Farm Section II 24 2.4 Routing slip for preliminary platting purposes 27 8 2.7 Road name changes in Precincts 1 & 4 36 2.15 Establish 10 p.m. curfew on county-owned dams 40 9 2.17 Establish Flat Rock Lake wake-free zone 40 2.16 Establish ban of fireworks on county property 49 10 2.5 PUBLIC HEARING - name changes, regulatory signs 58 2.6 Approve names changes & regulatory signs above 72 11 2.8 PUBLIC HEARING - abandoning Ace Reid Road 75 2.9 Discuss abandoning, discontinuing, & vacating 12 Ace Reid Road 83 2.14 Approve Kerr County Park Rules & Regs, set 13 public hearing 84 2.19 Children's Health Insurance Program (CHIP) 85 14 2.10 PUBLIC HEARING - cancel Block 1, Lots 1-11, Block 2, Lots 12-21, & Block 3, Lots 11-24 of 15 Sun Ridge Subdivision, Precinct 4 100 2.11 Approve cancellation of above blocks/lots in 16 Sun Ridge Subdivision, Precinct 4 102 2.12 Preliminary plat, La Hacienda Addition 104 17 2.20 Resolution to apply for 2001-02 Community Development Program grant 105 18 2.21 Resolution to apply for 2001 Colonia Construction grant 113 19 2.18 Budget amendment, computer for Extension Office 115 2.13 PUBLIC HEARING - use of LLEBG grant funds 117 20 2.22 Admin./engineering proposals for TCDP projects 120 2.23 Resolution to award contracts for TCDP projects 126 21 2.24 Approve proposed OSSF Rules, set public hearing 129 2.25 Appoint David A. Ballard to 911 Board 133 22 2.26 Provide nonpotable water to county residents whose private wells have gone dry 135 23 2.27 Budget adjustment, by amendment or transfer, County Attorney's Office 143 24 --- Adjourned 171 25 Reporter's certificate 172 3 1 On Monday, July 24, 2000, at 9:00 a.m., a Special 2 Session the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Good morning. 7 I'll call the Special Commissioners Court meeting of July 8 24th to order. Commissioner Griffin? 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Will you please 10 stand and please join us in a moment of silence, each in our 11 own hearts, each in our own minds, to seek the wisdom and 12 inspiration to the task ahead. 13 (Moment of silence and pledge of allegiance.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good morning. Judge 15 Henneke is out of town today, just so everyone is aware of 16 that, and so we decided earlier in the year we'd kind of 17 take it around the table as to who would be, I guess, chair 18 of the meeting, and I drew the unlucky straw to have the 19 longest agenda of the year, it looks like. So, let's get 20 going. First, public comments. Anyone that would like to 21 speak on any items that are not on the agenda? Wish to make 22 any comments? Any items that are not on the agenda. Okay, 23 no one. Commissioner Griffin, any comments? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. We did -- to let 25 everybody know, I don't know what happened out in the 4 1 eastern part of the county last night or late yesterday 2 afternoon, but we did get a little bit of rain -- up to an 3 inch, as a matter of fact. There was some damage done by 4 thunderstorms out in the Waldemar area, some damage to 5 buildings and some huge thunderstorms went across there. 6 And the river is actually up a little bit this morning, so 7 every little bit helps. It's -- it's a drop, but it's a 8 drop we sure appreciate. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I don't have 11 any comments today, thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I could probably hold 13 this one until later in the agenda, but it doesn't really 14 tie to this agenda item, so I'll say it now. Everybody 15 remembers that -- I think it was in March or April of 2000 16 this year that Commissioners Court applied for a Colonia 17 Comprehensive Planning Grant, which would give us money -- 18 if we were awarded, the purpose of the grant would give us 19 money for mapping and planning the unincorporated areas of 20 the county for the purpose of -- of developing water and 21 sewage systems. We have learned, as of last weekend, that 22 Kerr County has been preliminarily approved to receive a 23 grant of $98,000 to fund this work. Planning and mapping 24 process could get underway as early as the first of next 25 year. 5 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Great. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have is 3 that the eastern part of the county was not as lucky as the 4 western part of the county. Center Point actually, I think, 5 had half an inch, but Comfort might have had the dust 6 settled, but I doubt it. I know Lane Valley, when I turned 7 in yesterday evening, you could see pockmarks in the dust, 8 but you could see the dust still, so I wouldn't call that 9 a -- but, anyway, at least it rained upstream, so we'll get 10 a little bit of the benefit downstream. On to the approval 11 agenda. 1.1, paying bills. Any questions? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Move we pay the bills. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 15 Griffin, second from Commissioner Baldwin, to pay the bills. 16 Any further discussion? All in favor, say aye. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 19 (No response.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Budget amendments, 21 Tommy? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 1 is for the 23 County Auditor, transfer $149.99 from Contingency out of 24 Nondepartmental to Capital Outlay for the purchase of a -- 25 replacement of a printer. 6 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion and second, 4 Commissioner Griffin and Commissioner Baldwin. Any further 5 discussion? All in favor, say aye. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All opposed? 8 (No response.) 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. We have two bills 11 totaling $209.98 for Notices for publications in the paper. 12 We need to transfer $209.98 from Nondepartmental Contingency 13 to Notices in the Commissioners Court budget. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 17 Griffin, second from Commissioner Williams. Any further 18 discussion? All in favor, say aye. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 21 (No response.) 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 3 is a request 24 from Judge Brown to transfer $1,500 from Conferences in 25 his -- in County Court at Law to Court-Appointed Attorneys. 7 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 4 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin. Any further 5 discussion? All in favor, say aye. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 8 (No response.) 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 4 is for the Ag 11 Barn. This is a request from Glenn Holekamp to transfer 12 $600 from Building and Grounds Maintenance to Equipment 13 Repairs. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 17 Williams, second from Commissioner Griffin. Any further 18 discussion? All in favor, say aye. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Opposed? 21 (No response.) 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 5 is a request 24 from the Tax Collector to transfer $236.40 from Computer 25 Supplies to Books, Publications, and Dues. She has a bill 8 1 for -- it's a renewal for a directory for Motor Vehicle 2 Registration Manual. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 6 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin. Further 7 discussion? All in favor, say aye. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Opposed? 10 (No response.) 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 6 is a request 13 from the Sheriff's Office -- actually, this is between the 14 County Jail and the Sheriff's Department. First item is to 15 transfer $303.76 from Jail Uniforms to Lease Copier for the 16 Jail. The second part is to transfer $446.24 from 17 Maintenance Contracts in the Sheriff's budget to Lease 18 Copier in the Sheriff's budget. The last is to transfer 19 $1,065.96 from Jailer Salaries to Overtime. That's for the 20 Jail. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy -- go ahead. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't have to 23 ask the question, but if I was going to, the question would 24 be something like this: Sheriff, why do we have so much 25 overtime? 9 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You want me to address 2 that? I sure don't mind. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know you don't mind. 4 I thought I'd give you a little forum here. 5 AUDIENCE: He hasn't really asked the 6 question. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I haven't. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then I won't give you an 9 official answer. No, primarily, we had -- the last several 10 months, we've had some inmates in the hospital that we've 11 had to have 24-hour guard duty on at the hospital. That 12 takes a little bit of money from there, and that was your 13 main reason. As far as just the straight shifts that 14 they're working, we've been working around that so they 15 don't get actual overtime from working in the jail. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it required -- does 17 State law require you to have a certified peace officer 18 guarding that person, or can it be -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It can be a jailer. 20 That's what we've been using. Yeah, as long as his duties 21 are guarding, just like in the jail, he can guard them at 22 the hospital. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 24 It's really of Tommy. What would the unexpended balance in 25 this line item be after the transfer? 10 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In Jailer Salaries? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It doesn't show on 4 there. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It would be zero. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's going to take it 7 down to zero? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, are you talking about 9 Jailer Salaries? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have my budget book. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have a hard situation 13 there, because this Court approved the five new jailer 14 positions back earlier this year. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's really why I'm 16 asking the question. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some of those weren't 18 filled, some of them have been. We still have two openings 19 at this time, but there's going to have to be some 20 amendments coming through there. You know, this is still 21 jailers getting this overtime, okay? So we're just 22 transferring one fund from salary line item to the Overtime. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you plan on -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that kind of 25 raises a flag. You're sort of suggesting that we're going 11 1 to be having to transfer money to Jailer Salaries before the 2 budget year is up? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, because those five 4 positions were never funded in this current budget year. 5 They were approved and given, but there has -- the Court 6 said once we -- my understanding -- this is prior to my 7 taking office. Once that line item for Jailer Salaries was 8 expended, then the Court would -- would make the 9 arrangements and the -- and the deal to put the rest of the 10 money in it. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be helpful 12 for this Commissioner to know what the increase in the 13 revenue side has been as a result of the increase in the 14 number of jailers so that we know, if we're transferring 15 funds subsequently into this line item, that our mission was 16 accomplished, so-to-speak. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: During the budget 18 workshop last week, I kind of gave a little bit of an 19 overview on what we had made in revenues out of the jail, 20 and some of the Sheriff's Office on civil process. But, 21 your -- we have billed out to out-of-county's -- now, I 22 don't believe all that's been collected yet; some of them 23 still owe us, but since October 1 up till a few weeks ago, 24 it was a little over $300,000. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Over and above 12 1 what you had budgeted for? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Over and above -- well, 3 this is money coming back into Kerr County. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: It's not that much above what 5 we budgeted. It's about -- it's about $100,000 more than we 6 budgeted. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good 9 point. When you do come in for that budget amendment, I 10 think it be would be helpful to know how much we gave that 11 last year with one level of, you know, staffing in the jail, 12 and then how much additional we can attribute to increasing 13 the staffing and increasing the population in the jail. We 14 can split it out and we can see kind of the concerns, mine 15 as well, that we're making money, more than we're spending. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct. Well, we've 17 also -- and I suggested this during the workshop. I think 18 we're charging right now $30 or $35 a day for out-of-county 19 housing. And, in figuring up the daily expense, which 20 includes the bond debt and everything else on that jail, I 21 think it's going to be appropriate in this next year's 22 budget to up that to $40 a day. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I move that we pass 24 the budget amendment. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second, with a 13 1 comment. I wonder what it would be like if I had really 2 asked a question. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You may get a lot longer 4 answer. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 6 Griffin, second from Commissioner Baldwin, to approve Budget 7 Amendment Number 6. Further discussion? All in favor, say 8 aye. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 11 (No response.) 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Number 7? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay, yeah. Number 7 is for 14 the 198th District Court. They need to transfer $861.88 15 from Court-Appointed Attorneys to Court Transcripts. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 19 Williams, second from Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 20 Budget Amendment Number 7. Further discussion? All in 21 favor, say aye. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 24 (No response.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Number 8? 14 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 8, we have Jail 2 Repairs for this payment period of $574.49. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should be "Jail." 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I know, I see that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sure glad we 6 cleared that up. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Jail Repairs, okay. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I think the last -- the last 9 budget -- the last payment period, we amended the budget 10 through -- out of Radio Equipment, if my memory serves me 11 correctly. So, that's fine, if that's what the Court wants 12 to do. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we have a motion? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 18 Griffin, second from Commissioner Williams, that we approve 19 Budget Amendment 8, and such funds would come from the 20 Sheriff's Department Communications line item. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Further discussion? If 23 not, all in favor, say aye. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 15 1 (No response.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Number 9. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 9 is for Courthouse 4 and Related Buildings. This is a request from the 5 Maintenance Supervisor to transfer $1,000 from Utilities to 6 the Supply line item. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 10 Williams, second from Commissioner Griffin. I have one 11 comment on this one. Some of the good news of all the 12 renovations we've been doing is we're spending less on 13 utilities, and so there is a little bit of a payback for the 14 millions we've spent on fixing this courthouse up. And, 15 anyway, we'll probably get the same type benefit over there 16 when we're finished with the annex. But, finally, it's 17 nice -- nice to see a line item go down as opposed to up, as 18 we are regarding utilities right now. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With typically a 20 21 percent surcharge. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. Any further 22 discussion on Budget Amendment Number 9? All in favor, say 23 aye. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 16 1 (No response.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Any late bills? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I have two. One is for -- is 4 to Ford Motor Credit. It's for the first lease payment of 5 the six new patrol vehicles. The amount is $44,281.71. We 6 do need a hand check for that, also. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, I didn't 8 get what that was for. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: For the lease payment of the 10 six patrol vehicles. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. I'll move that. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 14 Williams, second from Commissioner Griffin, to approve the 15 late bill paid for the first lease payment on the six new 16 patrol vehicles in the amount of -- $44,281.07? Is that the 17 correct amount? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's for the first 20 year, correct? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any further discussion? 23 All in favor, say aye. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 17 1 (No response.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 2 is from 4 Stoddard Construction. This is for Draw Application Number 5 17, and it's for $90,898. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has our guy signed off 7 on it? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, he has. I have. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by Commissioner 12 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, to approve the late 13 bill to Stoddard Construction for Draw Number 17 in the 14 amount of $90,898. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Further discussion? All 17 in favor, say aye. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 20 (No response.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. That's it? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: That's all I have. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. We have a 24 stack of monthly reports. Motion to accept monthly reports? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I move that we accept 18 1 the monthly reports. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion from Commissioner 4 Griffin, second from Commissioner Williams, to accept and 5 approve the monthly reports. Any further discussion? All 6 in favor, say aye. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Opposed? 9 (No response.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. All right, we'll 11 move into the consideration agenda. Item 2.1 is consider 12 and discuss Subdivision Rules and Regulations and set public 13 hearing for same. I put this on the agenda, and I'm going 14 to -- we're going to pass on this at this time. We have 15 another agenda item which will -- may make a change to the 16 draft, and I'm also waiting on the County Attorney to 17 respond, and also on Headwaters, under the -- I've asked 18 them to -- they have a new manager in place -- to carefully 19 look at the water availability requirements, and we've not 20 heard back. Actually, I just gave it to them late last 21 week, so we should hear from Headwaters within a week or so. 22 So, we're going to pass on this at this time until we get 23 the input from those parties, but we're getting close. 24 Item 2.2 -- actually, Mr. Evans, you had 25 listed yourself -- Franklin, wait a minute. Mr. Evans is 19 1 listed as requesting to speak on that item. 2 MR. EVANS: Right. I just wanted to ask a 3 question, seeing that I wasn't sure about exactly what it 4 meant. I live in Kerrville Country Estates, just north of 5 Interstate 10, unincorporated area. We have got some 6 violations of our rules and regulations, community 7 restrictions, and I didn't know how -- what -- whether what 8 decision you were going to make would impact upon our rules 9 and regulations for our community, or are you just talking 10 about water or what? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our rules will not affect 12 your rules and regulations you have for your community. 13 That's a civil matter. That's between, you know, the 14 members of that community only. 15 MR. EVANS: Right. We've been to court. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ours are rules and 17 regulations for more infrastructure-type and process for 18 platting, and that's what we're talking about under that 19 item. 20 MR. EVANS: Okay, good. Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Frank? Item 2.2, 22 consider a variance to Paragraph 7.04, Page 25 of the Kerr 23 County Subdivision Rules and Regulations, 118 foot of 24 frontage instead of 200 foot of frontage, Tract Number 204, 25 Turtle Creek Ranches. 20 1 MR. JOHNSTON: This was requested by Lee 2 Voelkel. We have a preliminary plat on file that shows that 3 that area actually has a cul-de-sac that was built off of 4 the road to qualify for this, and now he's asking for a 5 variance to the 200-foot -- or the hundred and -- 120-foot 6 rule, I think, on the cul-de-sac. There have been cases, 7 two that I can think of, where the Commissioners Court has 8 granted a variance in a two-lot subdivision to this rule, 9 with the following requirements: That each lot would share 10 a single driveway, and then have an easement to turn into 11 each -- each of the properties, and the driveway would split 12 a -- a boundary, a lot boundary, 30 foot on each side. I 13 don't know if that would work in this case, but that -- that 14 certainly could be done. Maybe Lee would like to talk to 15 this issue. 16 MR. VOELKEL: Good morning. Lee Voelkel. 17 Also, Mr. Dug Pritchard, the owner of the property, is here 18 on the front row if you have any questions of him. I'm not 19 really sure if I understood what Frank was saying, but what 20 we've got before the Court today, as Frank said, we have a 21 preliminary plat that has been approved by Commissioners 22 Court, which, on that preliminary plat, we put a partial 23 cul-de-sac, bulb cul-de-sac in effect to -- to comply with 24 the rule that's cited in the agenda packet this morning. 25 We're -- we have come to the Court this morning, 21 1 Mr. Pritchard and myself, to ask for a variance from that 2 rule. Again, we have the 118 foot, as opposed to 200 feet. 3 We feel like that we haven't created a flag lot; that's 4 certainly not the intent of the owner. He owns this tract 5 out in Turtle Creek Ranches and wishes to subdivide it. The 6 improvements are centered, basically, in the lot, as you can 7 tell on our plat, and that's basically the reason we won't 8 be able to cut this lot where we would have 200 feet for 9 each of the -- of the lots that we're creating. At this 10 time, we already have a driveway that exists for each of the 11 lots. The improvements -- each has its own driveway which 12 goes to the house. The lot that we are creating in the back 13 has its own driveway that already exists along the fence 14 line, so I'm not, like -- again, I'm not sure what Frank was 15 referring to, but what we have in this situation is two lots 16 which would have two separate driveways. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: What we've done before is have 18 a common driveway where each one could turn into the 19 property. 20 MR. VOELKEL: If that would be something that 21 the Court would approve, I think we could certainly work 22 with those parameters, too. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: I think what our intention is, 24 is to maybe eliminate the cul-de-sac. We've been out on the 25 ground -- I've had Mr. Baldwin out on the ground, the 22 1 contours of the property where it basically drops off from 2 the existing road, which is a county-maintained, asphalt, 3 double coarse-penetration-type road, which is a very good 4 road. It would just be very difficult, fill-wise, to build 5 this cul-de-sac. And then, of course, the County, after a 6 year, would take over maintenance of that, and this may be a 7 problem at some point in time. We just feel like if we can 8 get a variance, that the cul-de-sac is unnecessary to serve 9 these two lots, unless the Court views this as a flag lot, 10 which -- again, which is not something we're trying to 11 create here. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and that's -- 13 that is the reason that the 200 foot was put in, is to 14 eliminate flag lots. And this is far from anything that we 15 would know as a -- as a flag lot. And, we -- we approved 16 that to put in a cul-de-sac there. I went out and looked at 17 it, and it can be done and the cul-de-sac can go in, but I'm 18 going to tell you, it's not -- it's not something that we 19 want to do. The owner does not want to do it, and this 20 County does not want to take it over once it's built. It -- 21 it's flat land, kind of like this for a little ways, and 22 then it gets way off down there. And, he can fill all day 23 long and we're never going to have a level cul-de-sac there. 24 It's -- I just see -- I just see, down the road, that the 25 County would be buying a problem by not -- it's a lot 23 1 simpler, a lot easier, and there's nothing wrong with 2 granting a variance to the 200 foot. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that a motion? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we -- 5 what's the agenda item here? That we grant a variance to 6 the 200-foot rule and allow the 118 foot frontage be in 7 place there. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a motion and a 10 second to approve a variance on Lot -- Tract Number 204, 11 Turtle Creek Ranches, to allow 118 foot frontage instead of 12 the 200 foot required frontage. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One question. Do I 14 understand correctly, Lee, that that would be a common 15 driveway, then, for the two lots? 16 MR. VOELKEL: Not unless that's made part of 17 the motion, sir. I think what they're -- what we're asking 18 for is a separate driveway for each of the tracts. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your 20 intention? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, there is a 22 separate driveway for each tract. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's fine? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Let's make it 24 1 clear, for the record, that this would be allowing two 2 driveways. Any further discussion? All in favor, say aye. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 5 (No response.) 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 7 MR. VOELKEL: One other question, please, 8 sir. Just for clarity, we presented a preliminary plat 9 that's been approved with the cul-de-sac. Would the Court 10 like us to come back with a new preliminary plat, or should 11 we just incorporate that into the final plat? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think incorporate it 13 in -- into the final plat. 14 MR. VOELKEL: Thank you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Moving on to Number 2.3, 16 consider preliminary plat for Nickerson Farm, Section Two, 17 Precinct 3. Franklin? 18 MR. JOHNSTON: This is an area that -- that 19 we met with the developer on -- good morning -- up on Nicks 20 Road. It involves 1-acre lots -- approximately 1-acre lots 21 for mobile homes; has a water system. There's one new -- 22 new section of road called Amy Lane that would be developed 23 with a turnaround at the end; it's a dead-end road. He's 24 dedicating half the right-of-way, 30-foot. There's a 25 previous dedication on the other subdivision across the 25 1 property line. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are all of these lots 3 intended to have separate septics and separate wells? 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, not wells; there's a 5 water system available. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Water system in 7 place? Okay. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 MR. JOHNSTON: We have a letter from Aqua 10 Source stating they have capacity to hook those up. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But they would all 12 have separate septic systems? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Franklin, tell me 16 again about Amy Lane. You know, the -- 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Amy Lane? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This developer is 19 dedicating 30 feet from his side? 20 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's already 30 22 feet dedicated from the other side? 23 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it just -- I mean, 25 there's no cul-de-sac or anything? 26 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, you notice at the 2 bottom, it's not a round cul-de-sac, but it's kind of a 3 little squared-off -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. JOHNSTON: -- turnaround area. He put it 6 all on his property, since the other side's not -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: So that's why it's all 9 off-center like that. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, cool. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it meets the radius 12 requirements? 13 MR. JOHNSTON: For a turnaround, right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dave, you might introduce 16 yourself. 17 MR. GEISTWEIDT: Yes, I'm David Geistweidt. I 18 live over in the Comfort area. I've been there about a year 19 now. I came across this property and I purchased it June 20 the 1st with the intention of developing a mobile home 21 subdivision. It joins against Nickerson Farms; that is an 22 existing mobile, modular-type subdivision right there. 23 There's a great need in this area for some to be put in, and 24 this is a very logical place to put one in; there's one 25 right next door already. So -- 27 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For everyone to know, 2 this is the old rodeo arena. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where this property is. 5 MR. GEISTWEIDT: And I am in the process of 6 removing that arena as we speak. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks fine. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You need a motion? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll so move, that we 11 approve the preliminary plat. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion by Commissioner 14 Griffin, second from Commissioner Baldwin, to approve the 15 preliminary plat for Nickerson Farms, Section Two. Any 16 further discussion? All in favor, say aye. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 19 (No response.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Item 2.4, consider 21 approving the routing slip for preliminary platting 22 purposes, as changed in the revision draft of Kerr County 23 Subdivision Rules and Regulations. Frank? 24 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, you notice a list of 25 names of several people on there that must -- must speak 28 1 after I do. There's been some problem about some of the 2 folks on this -- on the checklist actually accepting plats 3 as they bring them in for review. What the rules now call 4 for is that they bring the drawings by, the plats by, 30 5 days prior to the Commissioners Court meeting, and then 15 6 days prior to the meeting, they bring the checklist by. I 7 think what they were doing is dropping the plat off and 8 wanting them to sign it, and the confusion was they thought 9 they were approving it by doing that, but not just, you 10 know, reviewing it. 11 I've talked with several of these folks. We 12 talked about still having Road and Bridge sign off on it so 13 we officially get the clock running and have a copy of the 14 plat to review ourselves, and that the Clerk and the 15 U.G.R.A. -- take one by their offices here in town for their 16 review 30 days prior. And the other people on the list, 17 instead of trying to track them down, some of which are in 18 Fredericksburg -- Central Texas Electric -- and some are in 19 Bandera and some are other areas, to mail copies of the 20 plats 30 days ahead by Certified Mail, Return Receipt, and 21 when they bring this checklist by, they'll get the receipt 22 back and they can just simply make a copy of that receipt as 23 proof that they delivered it, and that will eliminate the 24 problem of trying to track people down and -- and doing the 25 travel. Should be cheaper than traveling. 29 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the -- I mean, anyone 2 that pays the fee -- it doesn't change for those people? 3 They have to sign off? 4 MR. JOHNSTON: I think they should. They're 5 here in town, and -- and we should have that signed off, 6 'cause that -- but the other folks need to -- need a chance 7 to review what's coming off. They're providing services, 8 and they need to be aware of what's -- you know, what's 9 being developed. But, by -- notification by mail would be 10 the same as hand-delivering. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it probably is a 12 big improvement, because there has been a real problem, 13 because the -- I know -- Central Texas is the one that comes 14 to mind -- that they only have one person in their office 15 that can sign plats, and they're very leery -- and 911, the 16 same thing; very leery of signing something that just says 17 they received it. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good idea. 19 MR. JOHNSTON: The final plat only has these 20 first three on there, anyway, and the -- the others have to 21 sign the actual plat as approval. So, this would give them 22 the full 30 days for the preliminary, and then the final, 23 they have seen it. We can -- we can come up with a form 24 that we can send to all the surveyors that would -- if they 25 have questions, they could fill out a -- you know, a portion 30 1 of the form and fax it back to us, so that could be kind of 2 a way they could notify us of any changes. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good idea. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see any reason 5 for us to pass an order on this, and I told Franklin this, 6 ahead of time right now. I think it would be -- I mean, 7 we're within two weeks, at most a month of setting the 8 public hearing for the new rules and regulations. But, I 9 think the direction of the Court would be for Road and 10 Bridge to draft this language into the new rules, which is a 11 change. And then we can, you know, incorporate it when we 12 do the -- the Subdivision Rules revision. 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that satisfactory? 15 Does that satisfy part of the -- 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Don, any other ideas? 17 MR. DON VOELKEL: I'm Don Voelkel. Franklin and 18 I have been talking about this, and we've -- we're not 19 trying to -- to circumvent any of the rules. And Dale 20 Crenwelge's here. And in our office, it pretty much takes 21 all day long to get all these things signed, and what we 22 would consider -- and Franklin I and I talked about this 23 Friday, about the same thing he just told you. And we 24 thought there are two different ways to try and do this. 25 One of them is we could bring in plats with the envelopes 31 1 already ready to go, and his office could just mail them 2 out. Or Franklin said he'd just as soon us mail them out 3 and bring in the Return Receipt request showing that they 4 received them, and I don't really have a problem with doing 5 it either way. I'm not trying to overburden, you know, 6 Frank's office at all. So, if he's agreeable to that, what 7 we were thinking about is just delivering the plats to him 8 30 days in advance, and then, in the next few days, when we 9 get all those back, make a copy of all of them, bring them 10 to him within the 15-day time limit for the routing slip, so 11 that it kind of goes through smoother. 12 Our problem is that, like, Hill Country 13 Telephone, Jimmy Dreiss is the only one who signs it. If 14 he's not there -- we couldn't even get them to sign that 15 they wouldn't accept it. So -- I mean, they wouldn't sign 16 anything. So, we were trying to come up with a way that -- 17 just to keep us from running around. 18 MR. DREISS: Well -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Excuse me, identify 20 yourself. 21 MR. DREISS: I'm Jimmy Dreiss with Hill 22 Country Telephone Co-Op. They showed up on a Monday 23 between -- the weekend before Labor Day -- I mean 4th of 24 July. There was nobody in the office. 25 MR. VOELKEL: And I'm not saying it's 32 1 Jimmy's fault. I'm just saying that it's just -- 2 MR. DREISS: This man could sign also, Price 3 could sign. 4 MR. VOELKEL: What we're trying to do is come 5 up with a way where we're not hinging on that getting it on 6 the agenda, 'cause Frank's office -- we have to get it there 7 on Monday before 4:00 -- actually, 4:30, but sometimes it's 8 even before that, 'cause Frank may be leaving. And the 9 reason we were there on Monday is 'cause we had to turn it 10 in on Monday to get it on the agenda. So, what we're trying 11 to come up with is a way -- and I'm certainly willing to let 12 Jimmy, you know, tell what he wants to see and what's -- 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Back to the 30 days, though, 14 if they had 30 days, you had plenty of time to do it. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If I may, it just 16 sounds like that the thing of you sending it out Certified 17 Mail with Return Receipt solves everybody's problem. 18 MR. VOELKEL: That's what I think. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Otherwise, the clock's 20 running, and then it doesn't make any difference when you 21 get it. I mean, you'll get it within -- you got 30 days or 22 15 days. 23 MR. VOELKEL: Right. That's what we're 24 thinking, is we bring the plats to Frank, get him to start 25 the procedure, and then we mail -- that same day, mail those 33 1 out to Jimmy -- and not just Jimmy. I mean, there's also 2 Raymond Batto or Pat Decker at -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think another part of 4 the problem that hasn't been said is that the surveyors and 5 developers in this county have had a tendency to really 6 rush -- I mean, to expect things to be put through quicker 7 than the time limits in our -- I think if the time limits 8 were closely followed, we wouldn't have the problems that we 9 have right now as much. But I know it's -- a lot of it is 10 an unnecessary effort to have to run around and get 11 signatures. This just solves that part of the problem and 12 does what Frank and I were talking about. 13 MR. VOELKEL: When we deliver to Frank's 14 office, that starts the 30 days, and then we've got a few 15 days to get them out to Jimmy or whoever else is going to be 16 receiving them. And then we get all those receipts back to 17 Frank so that Frank knows that they've at least seen them. 18 And I think and it's maybe good for Jimmy to be here. I 19 think the form that we put in with the plats ought to say 20 the same information on the right, saying this is a 21 preliminary plat for such-and-such a subdivision, the 22 meeting date will be approximately such-and-such a date. 23 And that's something we can negotiate with Frank when we 24 take that in, so that when we send these out, they know when 25 the meeting date is, and maybe have a form in there that 34 1 Jimmy or whoever could say, I've received the plat; I don't 2 have any problems with it, and he can fax it so he doesn't 3 have to do anything. Or he could attach some comments, 4 like, say, Lot 35 needs a 20-foot easement for some utility 5 or whatever, so that Jimmy has a way to get back -- or 6 whoever -- to us and/or Frank what their comments are. Or 7 they could still come by or call us or whatever. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Couldn't we not, 9 without -- I don't think we even have to have an order, but 10 couldn't we authorize that interim procedure to begin 11 immediately? Because that's really accomplishing the same 12 thing that our current order does, is just saying that 13 here's the way you do it. You carry it around by mailing 14 it, you know. You see what I'm -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only problem with 16 doing it as interim is that you get the word out that you 17 changed the way you do it, and it's kind of -- it's hard to 18 get that type of thing out to -- we have probably -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 15 different 21 engineers. 22 MR. VOELKEL: Maybe us getting with Frank, 23 getting something worked up, maybe get to it people like 24 Jimmy, Raymond, Pat Decker, let them review it and see if it 25 all sounds fine to them. 35 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 MR. VOELKEL: Something else we need to talk 3 about in the rules, and I certainly don't mind taking time 4 to talk about it sometime -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's probably not an 6 agenda item, is it? 7 MR. VOELKEL: No. I mean, is trying to find 8 an easement that all the utility companies like. Because 9 Raymond Batto has two or three that he likes, and I'm sure 10 Jimmy has some that he likes. If we could incorporate 11 everything that everybody wants into one specific easement, 12 then we can -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But now we're really off 14 the agenda item. 15 MR. VOELKEL: I'm just saying -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm saying we can't talk 17 about it. 18 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. Sometime we ought to 19 talk about it. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sometime. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those comments should get 22 to Road and Bridge that you have. I just think the main 23 thing we need, when y'all are working out the language that 24 goes into the cover letter that goes to the people that are 25 receiving the preliminary plat, is that they need to be told 36 1 to -- given a time period that's reasonable to make comments 2 back, either to Road and Bridge, or -- and probably back to 3 Road and Bridge would be the best way to do it if there is a 4 change they want on the preliminary plat. And then maybe 5 they can figure out how to get them notified, 'cause the 6 purpose of that notification right now is to make sure that 7 they're aware of what's coming off so they can look at it, 8 have the comments before we do the preliminary plat 9 approval. 10 MR. JOHNSTON: That 30 days should give them 11 at least a two-week period they can review it and have 12 comments. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. I think 14 that's -- we've beaten that one to death. There will be no 15 action on that, just Road and Bridge can incorporate that in 16 the draft. Item 2.5 is a timed item, so we'll -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And 6. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And 2.6. We'll skip both 19 of those. 2.7, consider and approve name changes for 20 privately maintained roads, Precincts 1 and 4, according to 21 911 guidelines. Commissioners of Precincts 1 and 4, and 22 Truby. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. As you see in 24 your packets, you have a list of road name changes, or 25 actually requests for private roads, and our understanding 37 1 is that there's no requirement of public hearing. And 2 there's only one in my precinct, and I'm ready to rock and 3 roll on it. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And the rest of them 5 are in mine, and I'm ready to rock and roll on those. So, 6 I'll make the motion that we approve the name changes, and I 7 think we've got a -- there was someone who wanted to speak 8 on that. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is 2.7? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Evans? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, Judge, I'd like 13 to second that motion before he speaks. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 MR. EVANS: I just wanted to ask a question. 16 When I first moved here, I -- well, first of all, I built my 17 house way off the road, and they asked me what my address 18 was when I went to apply for a telephone, and I didn't have 19 one. And so they called 911, and so we -- my wife being 20 named Vonnie and my name being Vaughn, we named -- we had to 21 name our driveway according to 911, 'cause it's over 22 500 feet long, so we named it Vaughn Trail. I wonder how 23 this is going to impact -- it's privately maintained, 24 believe me. And I'm wondering how this is going to impact 25 upon that. It's not on the map, Buster. It's not on the 38 1 map or anything. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: These particular name 3 changes don't apply to that at all, to your -- to your road. 4 MR. EVANS: Oh, it does not? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. These are 6 specific names on roads that have been requested. 7 MR. EVANS: Oh, okay. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, if you wanted -- 9 MR. EVANS: That's what I wanted. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For example, if you 11 wanted to request a change for your name on your road, you 12 could do that through this same process. This is where 13 owners have come forward and asked for changes to names. 14 MR. EVANS: Well, we have one road up in our 15 community named Mountain Laurel, and I understand it's 16 actually Mountain Laurel Trail. And, since that time, 17 there's been another subdivision built with the name -- in 18 the city named Mountain Laurel, and I think there's another 19 one. There's three named Mountain Laurel right now, and 20 there was even some consideration of changing -- you know, 21 requesting a name change of that road. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That will happen 23 through the normal process that 911 is going through now. 24 MR. EVANS: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So those things will 39 1 all be judged and -- and names changed as appropriate under 2 the guidelines. 3 MR. EVANS: Okay, thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion from 7 Commissioner Griffin, second from Commissioner Baldwin, to 8 approve the name changes for privately maintained roads in 9 Precincts 1 and 4 as presented. Any further discussion? 10 All in favor, say aye. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 13 (No response.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Item 2.8 is 15 another timed matter, and 2.9 is related to that. 2.10 is a 16 timed matter; 2.11 is related to that. So, we'll go to -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So is 2.12. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And 12 is related to 19 that. 2.13 is timed for 11:30, so we'll skip that. 2.14, 20 consider and discuss approving proposed Kerr County Park 21 Rules and Regulations and set public hearing for same. And 22 we're going to pass on that at this time because Tammy is 23 retyping the draft, incorporating my modifications and 24 Commissioner Williams' modifications, and it's probably 25 ready right now, but we'll take care of that after the 40 1 break. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to come 3 back to it? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. We'll pass that, 5 but we will deal with that today. 2.15, consider and 6 discuss establishing a curfew of 10 p.m. for public 7 activities on or near County-owned dams; Ingram Dam, Flat 8 Rock Lake Dam, and Center Point Dam. Commissioner Williams. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, 10 Commissioner. I had an opportunity to visit with some folks 11 who live out on Highway 173, directly across from Flat Rock 12 Lake Park, and -- in what is one of the prettiest areas of 13 our unincorporated areas, and we talked about several 14 things. We talked about, actually, 2.14, 2.15, 2.16, and 15 2.17, because all of those are concerns that these folks 16 have with respect to their quality of life as they live on 17 the river, and the things that take place in or near 18 County-owned property. And, so, I put this on the agenda, 19 and as a part of the backup you will see a petition signed 20 by all of the good folks who live in this area of Kerr 21 County on the Guadalupe River. I think at least one member 22 is here today, Carolyn Barker. Carolyn, would you like to 23 address the Court on this, get the discussion underway? 24 MS. BARKER: Yes, thank you. I appreciate 25 the opportunity to be here. Those of us who live on Flat 41 1 Rock Lake are not opposed to having a good time. We like to 2 party as well as anyone else, but when fireworks and boom 3 boxes and large groups assemble on -- on the dam at Flat 4 Rock and continue on till 2:00 and 3:00 and 4 o'clock in the 5 morning, it is of real concern to those of us who live in 6 that area. The fireworks, we have bottle rockets in the 7 trees, on dry lawns, on rooftops. And most of us keep hoses 8 handy, but again, when this goes on till all hours of the 9 morning, it presents a fire hazard that concerns us all, so 10 we would like to see some regulations regarding a curfew, 11 and the restriction of -- ban on fireworks from the dam on 12 Flat Rock Lake, and perhaps Ingram Dam as well. 13 I understand that there is a road that goes 14 down to the dam on the Guadalupe Heights side, and that 15 those residents had petitioned the Court at one other time 16 to have that road closed. It's an unnamed road, and it 17 doesn't go anywhere but down to the dam, and that might be a 18 consideration for restricting, you know, traffic, people who 19 go to the dam. The use of power boats has come up before 20 this Court as long ago as five years, and then again three 21 years ago, when the proposed park was being considered, 22 power boats going full throttle down Flat Rock Lake, the 23 river there. It was not designed to be a power boat lake. 24 The stumps were all left in place. The configuration of the 25 river bottom changes every time we have a hard rain. It 42 1 poses a -- a threat, not just to the motorists themselves on 2 hitting these stumps, but sometimes they put the 3 waterskiers, children without life jackets -- but it's also 4 a threat to the people for whom that lake was designed, and 5 that is fishermen with small trolling motors, canoeists. We 6 have seen the power boats upset -- turn over canoes, almost 7 run over those people in inner tubes or paddle boats, and 8 that's what that lake was designed for. It's really hardly 9 larger than a pond. We know that these people want to enjoy 10 their investment in a power boat, but Flat Rock Lake is not 11 the place to do it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- agree on the last one, 15 but it's easier to deal with this. We need to check with 16 the County Attorney's office on our authority to do much on 17 the water, itself. We may have the authority to do it. 18 MS. BARKER: We have tried find out about 19 that, as I said, as long ago as five years. U.G.R.A. 20 controls water flow and quality of river. Texas Parks and 21 Wildlife say it's not theirs. Of course, it's not the 22 City's. County, I do -- the County says they don't have it. 23 I don't know who is responsible for the activity on the 24 Guadalupe River when it goes out. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we're 43 1 saying, Carolyn, that we don't have it; I think we want to 2 be certain that we do have it. 3 MS. BARKER: Right. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I think this 5 Court, on a previous occasion, I'm not sure when, took a 6 similar action with respect to Ingram Lake. Is that 7 correct, Commissioner? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's 9 correct. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That is a no-wake 11 zone. So if we're able to do that with the western part of 12 the county, we certainly should be able to do it in the 13 eastern part or the -- central part of the county. I think 14 we just want to be certain that our authority is such that 15 we can do that. 16 MS. BARKER: I certainly hope that you can. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This fireworks 18 aspect, as well. 19 MS. BARKER: I certainly hope that you will 20 be able to do that. And, in addition to the safety hazards, 21 those of us who are residents on -- on the lake at that 22 point have a considerable amount of money invested in bolt 23 work to try to prevent erosion, but the wakes from 24 speedboats just undermines that, and it's a constant repair, 25 a very substantial repair. 44 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree totally, that 2 lake is certainly not suited for power boats. And I think 3 that either -- either the County, I would think, or the 4 Parks and Wildlife has the authority. I always thought 5 Parks and Wildlife had more authority than we did over 6 waterways, but either I -- I think if we can get it 7 resolved, that certainly is a way to do it. 8 MS. BARKER: A no-wake lake and signs posted. 9 We certainly -- certainly would appreciate any efforts you 10 make on our behalf. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The entire Court 12 favors doing what we can, and as Commissioner Williams has 13 said, the only thing we want to do is make sure that we're 14 on solid legal ground to do that. 15 MS. BARKER: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: When -- but I think 17 everybody wants to see the beauty and the serenity and 18 the -- the actual handling of the wakes for erosion and 19 other purposes. I think everybody would be in favor of 20 that. 21 MS. BARKER: I would certainly appreciate 22 your support. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I put it on the 24 agenda this morning to get the discussion underway, as I had 25 indicated to you we would do, and we appreciate you and all 45 1 your neighbors signing the petition and bringing it to our 2 attention. And I appreciate your courtesy in showing me the 3 area, which -- which we really have a concern. I think, for 4 purposes of expediting these subjects, there are three 5 subjects here we're going to ask the County Attorney, and 6 I'll give -- I'll prepare a memorandum to him to give us the 7 sense of his opinion with respect to our legal authority to 8 do this. And if there are no impediments, come back -- and 9 I don't predict there will be. I'll have it back on the 10 agenda as quickly after that as we get an opinion. 11 I'd like to make a comment with regard to the 12 Guadalupe Heights side. I've been up and down that road 13 several times, and to say that that is a passable road that 14 takes you down to the dam is -- is a stretch. It really is 15 a street -- anybody that walks down there at night, for 16 fireworks or any other purposes, without having some ability 17 to see, is really taking his life in his own hands. 18 MS. BARKER: Yet they do. Could it be 19 closed? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can't find out who 21 owns that, whether the County owns it in terms of access to 22 the dam, which I suggest we probably do. Franklin? 23 MR. JOHNSTON: I think it's an L.C.R.A. 24 easement. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: L.C.R.A. disclaims 46 1 owning it. I've been there and they say no, this -- that's 2 not ours. City of Kerrville says no. Kerr County says no, 3 that's not ours. Somebody owns the darn thing. Nobody 4 wants to step forward and say who it is. So -- but that's a 5 separate subject, but again, it would have to be posted on 6 that side if we do this so that people know for sure we mean 7 business about the dam. 8 MS. BARKER: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate you 10 bringing it to our attention. We're going to refer the -- 11 with your permission, Commissioner, refer all three of those 12 items to the County Attorney for review and opinion. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To expedite, I really 14 think that all of those can be incorporated in our Park 15 Rules. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, they can. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we -- just to be 18 real clear on the dam issue, fireworks, we can just say -- I 19 think we've expanded the parks. Now it will be to parks, 20 recreation areas, and dams, 'cause they're all three 21 related; I mean, all three. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that will 24 handle that, and I think we also can address the no-wake 25 zone at that same time. 47 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think 2.15, 2.17, 2 we can, 'cause we're talking about County property; dams, 3 County lakes and parks and so forth. 2.16 is a little 4 broader, and that talks about a county-wide ban on 5 fireworks. I think we really need to know where we're going 6 on that, but I -- I don't know about you, my colleagues, but 7 I get a lot of phone calls before and after a holiday with 8 respect to fireworks. Before, taking us to task for having 9 no ability to foresee the problem and -- and putting forth a 10 ban on fireworks, and afterwards, reporting to me the fact 11 that their house almost got burned down, their pasture got 12 burned up, expended bottle rockets are all over their 13 property, and so forth and so on. So, we get both sides, so 14 it's about time to talk about it. 15 MS. BARKER: And it's not just the holiday 16 any more. Now it's two, three, four days prior to. For 4th 17 of July, for example, partying started on Friday night. So, 18 it's substantial. I -- gentlemen, I appreciate your time -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for coming. 20 MS. BARKER: -- and consideration. Thank 21 you. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, let's go ahead, 23 then, just to clear up the agenda a little bit. Item 2.5 -- 24 2.15 and 2.17, we're going to take no action on, and we'll 25 consider both of those under the Park Rules and Regulations. 48 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll make a comment 2 about the wake-free zone. In 19 -- I think it was, like, 3 1988, when I was a Commissioner down in Precinct 4, I was 4 approached by Parks and Wildlife to create a no-wake zone at 5 Ingram Lake, which is in place today. If you remember, we 6 recently bought little buoys and they installed them. And, 7 if you think about it -- or the way I think about it, the 8 water in the Guadalupe river, the H2O portion of it, is 9 State-owned. We all agree to that, don't we? And if there 10 is a rule or a law broken; speeding, drinking, no-wake 11 zones, et cetera, it is a law enforcement issue. And, Parks 12 and Wildlife and I have done this a couple of years ago when 13 the debate was going on. Parks and Wildlife is wrong. They 14 are responsible. It's their water and State laws; they're 15 responsible for it, so it's a closed deal for me. They're 16 the ones that need to step up to the plate. And if -- if 17 they give the County authority to create this no-wake zone, 18 then -- and we create it, they're the law enforcement 19 agency. We're not. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I really want to get 21 the County Attorney involved in this -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, absolutely. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- for his 24 interpretation. I don't disagree with you that the State 25 owns the water, and the State has -- has a great deal to say 49 1 about the uses of the water, diversion rights of the water, 2 how the water is used and so forth and so on. With 3 recreational activities on the water, I'm not so certain 4 that that is a clear-cut distinction. What we're talking 5 about is what takes place on the water for a power boat, a 6 rowboat, a sailboat, a fishing boat, swimmers, wave runners, 7 you name it. And if those things are -- the process 8 destroys somebody's property -- washing out the bulkheads, 9 for example, as they are doing on Guadalupe river side on 10 173 -- that, to me, then becomes an issue that we probably 11 ought to get our noses into. Let's find out who has 12 authority to do it, and that's the first step. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to deal with 15 2.16, which is consider and discuss establishing county-wide 16 ban on the use of fireworks on County property, parks and 17 dams, except for special events/celebrations, if prior 18 approval is granted by the Commissioners Court. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I put that on there, 20 Commissioner, because of the complaints that I noted a 21 moment ago, coming in both before, during, and after those 22 periods of time when fireworks are sold and used. I notice 23 also, as you probably have too, there is a proliferation 24 of -- of places to sell fireworks in Kerr County, which 25 tells you this is probably a pretty decent marketplace. I 50 1 see more and more fireworks stands popping up on highways in 2 the incorporated areas. I'm not certain how this should be 3 treated, but I thought this is as good a time as any to open 4 up a discussion. Some counties, I'm told, set zones for 5 this -- for this purpose, designate certain areas. That 6 seems to suggest to me that if we were to designate an area, 7 we would be talking about a county park, and I got -- I'll 8 tell you right off the bat, I'm not in favor of that. But I 9 think we -- the topic is one that deserves discussion, so 10 it's on the board for discussion. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would just say, on 12 2.16, the fireworks issue, that that's one that we really 13 need to get the County Attorney's input on what we can do, 14 perhaps see some model ordinances, if there can be an 15 ordinance for that sort of thing. And I don't know what the 16 State statute says, but I'm sure there are other things that 17 we can look at and get a pretty good idea of what we might 18 be able to do. But, the first step, again, is that this one 19 needs to go to the County Attorney to find out what our -- 20 what can we do, and -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that can be -- 23 from a parks and dams and recreation area standpoint, we can 24 do the rules and regulations and -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Very easily. 51 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need to expand it, 2 I guess, to discuss going into a county-wide -- all 3 property, restricting the use? Or just on county property? 4 Because if it's county property, I really don't -- I'm 5 trying to think of any county property other than in 6 recreation -- parks and dams that are -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think while we're at 8 it, we ought to go ahead and look at the entire issue of 9 controlling fireworks in the county, and what can counties 10 do? I think that's the question. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I think you're 12 going to find limited law there. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's limited. I know 14 there's some limits, but we need to find out what those 15 limits are. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. I think we 17 need to know for sure what our capability is in that regard, 18 and then we can determine whether we want it county-wide or 19 only for our own property thereafter, and how best to 20 accomplish that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a few questions. 22 So, Commissioner Williams, if you would, then, I guess, make 23 that request of the County Attorney on 2.15 and 2.17, that 24 we'll just handle that with the parks -- rather than have 25 three or four requests down there, we can incorporate those 52 1 two under the park rules. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. You're 3 amenable to incorporation of 2.15 and 2.17 into the park 4 rules? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Into park rules, and then 6 2.16 is a separate issue. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fine. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a big question. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll address that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To keep from having four 11 requests going down to the County Attorney at once. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question 13 right quick. On the curfew issue, what is -- what hour are 14 you putting in the park rules? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 o'clock is in the 16 draft right now. 11 o'clock was on there; I noticed that. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I notice there's a 18 little discrepancy. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Petition says 20 11:00, then your agenda item says 10:00. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we can come 22 up with something that the homeowners would be -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, whatever he's 24 putting in there. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 o'clock. 53 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 10 o'clock right now. I 2 have a couple of questions for Ms. Barker first. 3 MS. BARKER: 10 o'clock would be fine, but we 4 were willing to concede 11:00. We just would like to see it 5 not -- not 2:00 in the morning. Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paul? 7 MR. SIEMERS: I'd just -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me tell you from 9 experience, being an old Hill Country boy that hung around 10 on the dams and swam at night and all, if I'm out there past 11 10 o'clock, I'm fixing to get in trouble. And -- and did on 12 a regular basis. So, 10 o'clock's plenty late. 13 MR. SIEMERS: That's probably in the record 14 somewhere, too. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it is here, and 16 out at the jail, too. 17 MR. SIEMERS: That's what I meant. I'm Paul 18 Siemers. I live at Hunt at HC-1, 156-N. I got a couple 19 comments real quick about the fireworks. I would encourage 20 a county-wide ban. I mean, or at least be able to call a 21 ban during a fire -- we're in a fire ban; fireworks should 22 also be banned. We've had several fires as a result of 23 fireworks lately, and fireworks shouldn't be sold or used in 24 the county when we're in a ban. I know out where we are, we 25 just did a highway cleanup, and the debris from fireworks in 54 1 the river -- along the river was kind of disgusting, along 2 with everything else, but the fireworks were there too, and 3 they are double-edged swords, as far as trash and the fire 4 danger. The question I have about the wake-free zone in 5 Ingram Lake, it's just a zone that's buoyed about 10 or 6 15 feet upstream of the dam; is that not correct? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, there's 9 actually -- over by the boat ramp area, that's a no-wake 10 zone. That's the real no-wake zone. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On the upper end. 12 MR. SIEMERS: What I noticed is that a lot of 13 the power boats and jet skis, they'll skim the dam as close 14 as they can. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's not on the 16 agenda, but that item -- 17 MR. SIEMERS: It's a wake-free -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That whole item is -- 19 in my mind, is very much a question for all of -- for all of 20 Lake Ingram. 21 MR. SIEMERS: That's what my -- that was what 22 I'm driving to. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And because of 24 erosion, there's several complaints that I've received from 25 people that live -- that have property on the river, where 55 1 the shoreline is being eroded very badly from large boat 2 wakes, primarily off of -- not just water-skiing, but from 3 jet skis, as well. So, that's something we need to look at. 4 But, again, we need to know what are the limits, what can we 5 do? And then we can write as tough a thing as we -- 6 MR. SIEMERS: I hope you can resolve who's 7 responsible for the river between the County and Parks and 8 Wildlife, 'cause they deny anything most of the time. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true. 10 MR. SIEMERS: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir? 12 MR. CASTILLO: I'm Claudio Castillo. I'm the 13 new kid on the block over there on 173, and I'm totally 14 dead-set against a ban on fireworks when it's time to 15 celebrate July the 4th, ring in the freedom and 16 independence. Kerrville pops their fireworks near the 17 water. I think that's the best place to pop fireworks. 18 They drop them down, slide down the dam, down into the 19 river. Somewhere else, yeah, okay. You know, it's a fire 20 ban; ban on fireworks too. But I pop fireworks right there 21 on the river, and if there's a fire, get a bucket of water 22 and get it out there, put it out. If you want to confine 23 fireworks popping, nothing's better than near the river. 24 And, curfew -- you going to have a curfew 25 here, you going to have a curfew there, and you just going 56 1 to have to live in a house, just shut the door one time. 2 When we get a little older, yeah, let's have a curfew. I'm 3 still -- I'm going to be 55 pretty soon, and that's just not 4 old enough for me to have curfews anywhere. Not yet. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Claudio. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I've got 7 to say that I looked at -- I looked at banning fireworks, 8 and all I was going to do -- what I want to do is possibly, 9 in my precinct, and maybe even certain subdivisions that had 10 requested me to look into it -- and the way I understand the 11 law, that really deals with aerial fireworks only; doesn't 12 have anything to do with firecrackers that you set on the 13 ground -- is that the State agency that we deal with on 14 the -- on the burn ban -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, Texas Forest 16 Service. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- forest Service, is 18 that if you want to, you can ban aerial fireworks for the 19 4th of July, but you have to put that in place on June the 20 15th, with their approval; that they say yes, the moisture 21 content is right, et cetera. And I did that. I called them 22 June the 15th, or a little bit before that, to put it on the 23 agenda, and they said, We cannot approve it because the -- 24 the water content in the soil, et cetera, is too high. 25 That's June the 15th. And, of course, we rode around July 57 1 the 4th and everything is -- is dead. You know, there's no 2 moisture content anywhere. So, I don't -- you know, that's 3 the way I understood it, that the law reads that you have to 4 do it that way. And the same thing for Christmas. You have 5 to -- you have to put -- put the ban in place, like, 6 November 30th or something like that. It's a considerable 7 amount of time ahead of your holiday. So, I looked at it 8 and then couldn't get -- couldn't get the State to go along 9 with it, and really should have on 4th of July. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good point 11 you bring up, the issue that we don't have much authority to 12 do much -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- as a county, whether 15 it's regarding water issues, or probably fireworks and other 16 things. So, it's -- it's a very -- it's a very frustrating 17 thing to us, and I think to the citizens of the county, 18 where we have an issue that we'd like to get some control 19 over, we just don't have that authority. But I think that 20 it's a good time to get an opinion from the County Attorney, 21 find out what we can and can't do so we can at least let the 22 public know, if they want to -- or feel so strongly about 23 it, they need to talk to the Legislature. That's going to 24 be the first step on a lot of these, I'm afraid. 25 All right, let's go back to Item 2.5, public 58 1 hearing considering name changes and regulatory signs in 2 Kerr County. On this item, Frank -- 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm sorry, you're right. 5 Bang the gavel. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want me to go get the 7 gavel? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I can't -- I can't 9 lift the gavel. We'll go back and we'll close the 10 Commissioners Court meeting at 10:06, and we'll open the 11 public hearing at 10:06, which is timed, Item 2.5, public 12 hearing concerning name changes and regulatory signs in Kerr 13 County. Thank you. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: Do you want me to read this? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't you get us 16 started, Franklin? Then we'll open it up for public 17 comment. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: Name changes. Precinct 1: 19 East Lake Drive to Wood Duck Lane North. East Lake Drive to 20 Holly Drive North. Tierra Loop to Tierra Loop -- to Tierra 21 Vista Drive North. Tierra Loop to Lonesome Dove Lane North. 22 Dog Trot Trial to Quailwood Lane North. Precinct 2: East 23 Camp Verde, northern portion, to Witt Road East. East Camp 24 Verde, southern portion, to Witt Way East. Evans Road to 25 Upper Mason Creek East. And, Precinct 4: Unnamed road to 59 1 Hailey Circle West. Unnamed to Sky Way West. Part of 2 Brushy Drive to Pond Creek Lane West. Part of Brushy Drive 3 to Waterfall Lane West. Colvin to Colvin Court West. West 4 Drive to Ranch Rim Drive West. Rim Rock North to Rimrock 5 Circle West. Rim Rock South to Rimrock Circle West. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You skipped one. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You skipped one. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ravine to Ranch Rim Drive 9 West. 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, okay. Speed limits: 11 Camino Real, 30 miles per hour. South Fork, 40 miles per 12 hour. Town Creek, 40 miles per hour. No parking: Northern 13 Hills at Fannin -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Northwest. 15 MS. HARDIN: There's one more on the speed 16 limits that is not on this sheet that was in the paper, and 17 that's Fall Creek to 40 miles per hour. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fall Creek Road? 19 MS. HARDIN: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 40 miles? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, Franklin. We have 22 a public comment. I know one person who has signed up to 23 speak on this is Mr. William Thomas. Mr. Thomas? 24 MR. THOMAS: Your Honors, my name is William 25 B. Thomas, Jr. My address is 1113 Ridgestone Lane at Hunt, 60 1 Canyon Springs Addition. We're residents out there as of 2 last August. I lived in University Park, a suburb of 3 Dallas, for a long time, and had two occasions to call 911 4 on a real emergency, and that's the longest two minutes that 5 I ever spent, waiting for the fire truck and the ambulance 6 to come. And I would like to have our street particularly 7 renumbered so that we have a distinct 911 response code so 8 that any of the new ambulance drivers or the old ambulance 9 drivers can find my house in the event of emergency. I have 10 no comment on the other part of the proposal. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mr. Thomas, let me 12 just say that the process -- the way this would work for all 13 the 911 name changes and numbering would be that we do the 14 name change first. As soon as that is official, then 911 15 would generate the absolute objective numbers the way they 16 should be. 17 MR. THOMAS: All right. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So that everyone will 19 have a distinctive number and name. They will be known to 20 the emergency vehicle drivers. That map will actually be in 21 the vehicle eventually, as soon as we can get it in there, 22 so that they have no ambiguity about where they're going. 23 So -- and it's to accomplish exactly what -- exactly what 24 you say, and that's so -- in fact, I'm glad you came 25 forward, because that's the reason we're doing all of this, 61 1 is for 911 emergency medical or other emergency services. 2 It's not just to go through the exercise of changing road 3 names or assigning new numbers. We're trying to do it to 4 protect the health, safety, and welfare of our citizens, so 5 we're trying to do exactly what you want, and we'll do it as 6 fast as we can. 7 MR. THOMAS: Thank you, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- ma'am? If you 9 have a -- 10 AUDIENCE: I could not hear what he said. 11 Ravine Road would be changed to what? 12 MR. JOHNSTON: Ranch Rim Drive West. 13 AUDIENCE: Ranch Rim Drive West. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sir, please identify 15 yourself. 16 MR. BUCHANAN: You're talking about only one 17 person registered. I just -- I spoke to Commissioner 18 Griffin a couple times about speaking up here. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. Anyone in the 20 audience may speak, whether you signed up or not. 21 MR. BUCHANAN: My name is J.C. Buchanan; I live 22 in Canyon Springs Subdivision up there. My address is 238 23 Ranch Rim Drive. I'm just curious, as we're putting a lot 24 of things here on 911 district. The name changes, I noticed 25 the notice -- the notification in the paper that all of 62 1 these name changes for Precinct 4 are in Ranch Rim -- I 2 mean, excuse me, Canyon Springs Subdivision. Why does the 3 County want to go change the all the names in my 4 subdivision, but not the rest of the -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a good, valid 6 question. 7 MR. BUCHANAN: It's a good question. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We had to start 9 somewhere. We had to start somewhere, and so we looked at 10 all the 911 district, looked at all of the subdivisions in 11 the county. Actually, they're all going to be done, but 12 they looked and said, Hey, we need a good test case, the one 13 where there's a lot of problems, where there is confusing 14 names, there are duplicate names, there is a bad numbering 15 system, and let's tackle one of the really tough ones first. 16 That's the only reason that Canyon Springs came up to the 17 top of the list, and that's just the first one. And, by the 18 way, it also, in that same process, got all of River Road 19 and Stewart Junkin Road and all of them looked at, so that 20 it's everything that's up on the hill once you come into 21 that Canyon Springs area. But, it was primarily because 22 that was a good test case, and there is every problem that 23 we will have in going through this process. Every problem 24 was represented in Canyon Springs, so it was -- it was a 25 good test case. We've learned a lot about how to do it now. 63 1 MR. BUCHANAN: I don't understand why the 2 County would want to come in there and change the names of 3 the streets. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's not -- not just 5 the County; it's the 911 district. We're only a part -- 6 MR. BUCHANAN: May I make a statement on 7 that, please, sir? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 9 MR. BUCHANAN: Okay. I know a little bit 10 about the 911 district, okay? They have -- when you call in 11 for 911, emergency, they have a Caller I.D.; it's not the 12 same thing that is on your phone at home, it's a different 13 system, because their system would call up your name, your 14 address, your phone number, you know, the residents -- the 15 resident, you know, of record. And then they also have the 16 capability -- and I've seen this done -- of calling up your 17 location on a map immediately. So, we're talking about 18 changing all these names for the benefit of 911 district, 19 when 911 district has the capability of immediately locating 20 any address in Kerr County. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, as a matter of 22 fact, they don't. That's -- that -- 23 MR. BUCHANAN: We'll, I've seen it. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the problem. 25 And we're -- and the technology is such now, we're -- with 64 1 cordless phones -- and particularly with cellphones, is the 2 big difference. The cellphone industry has totally changed 3 the 911 arena, because now most 911 calls, as a matter of 4 fact, are placed by cellphone. Well, there's nothing in the 5 system that tells you where that is. Somebody has to 6 describe, at least with the technology we have today, where 7 they are. That's the reason we need to get the road names 8 right, so that there are no duplicates. Because if I'm on a 9 cellphone and I see an accident and I say, "I'm on Smith 10 Street," but there's four Smith Streets in Kerr County, 911 11 doesn't know where to go. So, that's the reason we're 12 trying to get rid of the duplicates. That's all in the 13 guidelines. 14 And, by the way, this was -- there is a set 15 of guidelines that you can get a copy of and see how this 16 will all work, but eventually what we hope to come to for 17 residents is, once we get the numbering system down right so 18 that an ambulance driver can get to it, is that you could 19 pick up a phone, dial 911, and keel over, never say a word. 20 Everything will come up on the 911 screen on what the street 21 name or road name is and what the number is, with directions 22 for the emergency driver how to get there, whether it be a 23 fire department, ambulance or whatever. So -- so we're not 24 there yet. This is sort of the first step, and the first 25 thing we've got to do county-wide -- not just in Canyon 65 1 Springs, but county-wide, we've got to get the road names 2 right, without duplicates and with -- with a system that 3 emergency drivers can understand, and with proper numbers. 4 That's where we're headed, and this just happens to be the 5 first one that we've done. And there was no reason for 6 picking on Canyon Springs; it just happened that way. 7 MR. BUCHANAN: I just saw that there are 8 names changed for no apparent reason. I mean, if we're 9 number one on this being done, then we should have first 10 choice on the names. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, let me give you 12 a good example. Ranch Rim -- no, Rim Rock. Rim Rock North 13 and Rim Rock South, the numbers go in two different 14 directions, and they're almost at random, because they were 15 picked -- in some cases, picked by the landowners. But, at 16 any rate, the -- the two -- having two roads of the same 17 name in the same subdivision, and the only difference was 18 the directional at the end, was totally confusing to -- and, 19 in fact, we've had emergency vehicles go to the wrong place 20 because of that. 21 Brushy Drive -- the other real big problem, 22 Brushy Drive, had a north section and south section, and in 23 between it is essentially unpassable. But, on two different 24 occasions, emergency vehicles went to the north side when 25 they should have gone to the south side. So -- so these 66 1 were known problems already with those road names, and so we 2 said, when we looked at it, let's apply all of the 3 guidelines, and then -- as I say, the guidelines were 4 approved by this Court after public hearings, extensive 5 public hearings, and approved by the City of Kerrville and 6 City of Ingram, same set of guidelines, so that once we've 7 started into it, we're going to make all of the roads 8 conform to the guidelines. And that is, we look at 9 duplicate names throughout the county, we look at confusing 10 directionals. West Road, for example. West Road West is 11 confusing to an emergency driver, so West Road is going to 12 become Ravine -- or Rimrock, all the way from the very top 13 all the way to the river, which is outside of the -- 14 MR. BUCHANAN: Ranch Rim. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ranch Rim, I'm sorry. 16 MR. BUCHANAN: That brings up another 17 question right there. If we're going to change names, why 18 don't we change either Ranch Rim or Rimrock? You know, 19 you're talking about confusing. We got two roads right 20 there with almost identical names. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, that was the 22 reason that Ranch Rim -- or that Rimrock went to a circle. 23 MR. BUCHANAN: See what I'm talking about? 24 They're confusing. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Rimrock Circle and -- 67 1 well, we dealt with your board on that. The 911 people and 2 I met with the -- the board of the Canyon Springs Homeowners 3 Association -- the homeowners association, and they -- we 4 tried to accommodate as few name changes as possible. 5 That's one that got by the homeowners association. 6 MR. BUCHANAN: They proposed these changes? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. 8 MR. BUCHANAN: I misunderstood you. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We met with them to go 10 through all of the proposed changes that 911 -- and we asked 11 for suggestions on road names that needed to be changed, and 12 so that was a -- that was a thing that -- and there were 13 several meetings called. In fact, there was one board 14 meeting that all of the homeowners were invited to make 15 comment, and I was there. 16 MR. BUCHANAN: I'm very active in the 17 homeowners association out there, and I was never told about 18 any meeting, myself. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sorry. But -- but 20 this -- 21 MR. BUCHANAN: That's not your problem; I 22 understand. Okay. Rather than drawing things out, I'd just 23 like to make a comment and then I'll sit down, okay? Brushy 24 Drive, a very short road, now is going to have four 25 different names. That's not -- that's not improvement, 68 1 right? Okay. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't agree with 3 that, but -- you know, because, remember, part of -- 4 MR. BUCHANAN: A road which is three-quarters 5 of a mile long, now it's going to have four different names. 6 It's a relatively straight road. It's going to have four 7 different names now. That's not going to help 911 district. 8 The other -- and the other one is this geo designation that 9 they're talking -- geophyiscal designation, from what I read 10 in the paper, I think we're the only county in the state of 11 Texas that is doing this. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm not -- 13 MR. BUCHANAN: I mean -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure -- I'm not 15 sure what you're referring to. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Geo-regions? 17 MR. BUCHANAN: When I say we're putting N., 18 east, you know, northeast, southwest -- you know, just a 19 letter. And there's -- I think there's six of those, what 20 they call them, geophysical -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Geo-regions. 22 MR. BUCHANAN: Geo-regions, excuse me. Okay. 23 There's six of those, and from what I read on that subject 24 right there, we're the only county in the state of Texas 25 that deemed it necessary to do something like this. 69 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not the only 2 county. There are not a lot, but the reason I think we did 3 it was to have as few name changes as possible, because we 4 do have a -- we had or -- or do have a tremendous number of 5 duplicate names, so it's a way to accommodate some of that. 6 So, like, Main Street, for example, you know, you can have a 7 Main Street West and a Main Street East, and -- you know, 8 rather than change all the Main Streets. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We had some -- as I 10 recall, I think there were 600 duplicate road names in Kerr 11 County. 12 MR. BUCHANAN: I realize that they should be 13 changed. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: With the geo-region, 15 we can leave them -- there is, for example, River Road, 16 which is just down below your subdivision. 17 MR. BUCHANAN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: River Road -- there 19 are -- there is another River Road in -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Precinct 2. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- Precinct 2. So, 22 now that's River Road East. And this one's going to -- the 23 one in Precinct 4 will be River Road West, and we don't have 24 to change the name entirely. We just added the geo-region 25 to it, and the computers and all can handle that, get the 70 1 police up there and the emergency vehicles. That doesn't 2 give them the ambiguity that they have to worry about, so it 3 made sense. And -- but it's -- it is not -- there was no 4 road name proposed to be changed without some reason. It 5 was either a duplicate or confusing to the 911 folks, and 6 I'm talking about the emergency providers, because a fire 7 department or an ambulance driver says it would be a lot 8 better if this said this and this said that, and that's how 9 those guidelines were developed. And that's what we're 10 trying to go by, county-wide. 11 MR. BUCHANAN: Okay. Like I say, I just -- 12 there were some things about this rankled me. I wouldn't 13 forgive myself if I didn't step up to have my say about it. 14 I appreciate your listening. I appreciate your patience. 15 Thank you very much. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Certainly. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there any other 19 comments? Yes, sir? 20 MR. FATHEREE: I'm John Fatheree. I live at 401 21 Cave Spring Drive, and I'd like to support the changes being 22 made. I think they're reasonable. For example, Cave Spring 23 is numbed backwards. When you leave Highway 39, you're in 24 the 500 or 600 block, and you go down in numbers till you 25 get to the end way up the hill. I'm sorry, Buck, you 71 1 weren't at the meeting. I don't know why you weren't 2 notified. But, for example, Brushy Drive -- 3 MR. BUCHANAN: I don't either, since I've 4 been very active out there. I was not notified until after 5 the meeting. 6 MR. FATHEREE: Well, Brushy Drive, for example, 7 as Larry said, there's an entrance down in our wilderness 8 area. That's -- that's called Brushy Drive. There were two 9 occasions that emergency vehicles went down that road and 10 found out quick that they were in trouble. On the other 11 end, when you get across the wilderness area, Brushy Drive 12 for a short section would stay the same, but after you leave 13 Rimrock Circle, you go -- you make a right turn to get back 14 on Brushy currently, and it is confusing. I've been through 15 there trying to find a friend's house when I first moved up 16 here. I didn't know where to go. I got totally lost. So, 17 I think what's being done is reasonable, and I support the 18 Court on what they're doing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Are there any 20 other people in court that would like to make any comments? 21 I'll just make one general comment, that this process is 22 going to take place county-wide. And it started out in 23 Canyon Springs, like Larry said, and in the western part of 24 the county. It's just at random. Every subdivision and 25 every area and every street in the county are going to go 72 1 through the same process, and there are a large number that 2 are going to be -- numbering especially is going to be 3 changed. All the rural routes will be eliminated, so people 4 will actually have an address. But it is a -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me jump in there 6 and say you'll still get your mail in the same mailbox; it's 7 just that -- you'll still get your mail in the same mailbox. 8 Just the address on the side of it will change. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. But, 10 anyway, it's long overdue. There is a -- this Court has 11 spent a lot of time on it; the City of Kerrville is -- is on 12 board, will use the same system, which is a real important 13 issue for this Court and I think for 911. So, the entire 14 county will -- when we're completed, will be under one 15 numbering system and with one set of maps, so it will be 16 accurate everywhere. I think it's very important for 911 17 and the response of emergency vehicles, whether police, 18 fire, or E.M.S. That's the only comment I have. And we'll 19 close the public hearing at 10:25. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Praise the Lord. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And go on to Agenda Item 22 2.6, consider approving name changes on regulatory signs in 23 various locations in Kerr County as addressed in public 24 hearing. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll move that we 73 1 approve those name changes and regulatory signs, as 2 discussed previously. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second that motion. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a motion from 5 Commissioner Griffin -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That will include the 7 addition made here by Road and Bridge? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Fall Creek Road -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any further discussion? 12 All in favor, say aye. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 15 (No response.) 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 AUDIENCE: When does this take effect? When 19 is my street name going to be changed? I live on Ravine 20 Road. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The changes will be 22 effective in the 911 system immediately. The signs will be 23 changed as the County can get to them. The numbers will be 24 done as soon as the 911 computer can run them, and that 25 doesn't take long. And, in fact, you should -- those should 74 1 occur very quickly. Truby? 2 MS. HARDIN: Any private road signs will need 3 to be purchased, if they want the private road sign. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't think there 5 are any private -- in Precinct 4, I don't think there was 6 any private -- were there? 7 MS. HARDIN: Hailey Circle and Sky Way 8 and Colvin. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. You're right. 10 MS. HARDIN: Those would need to be 11 purchased. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But the 13 county-maintained roads, which are most of those roads up in 14 Canyon Springs, the changes will be effective immediately. 15 They'll go into the 911 system starting tomorrow, and then 16 they'll generate the numbers and get the homeowners notified 17 of that as soon as possible. 18 AUDIENCE: How will the homeowners be 19 notified? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: By mail. 21 AUDIENCE: By mail. 22 MR. BUCHANAN: 911 has the notices; they've 23 had them for six weeks waiting on this meeting right here. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I understand the 25 numbers have already been run, but they can't distribute 75 1 them -- 2 MR. BUCHANAN: They were waiting for this 3 meeting. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- until this was 5 approved. 6 AUDIENCE: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I was looking for 8 a short agenda item, but I don't see any short items left. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 9 is. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We have to do our -- 11 what's going to happen, Commissioner, on Ace Reid Road? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if you'll open 13 it up, I'll -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't open it until 15 10:30. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you have a bad 17 clock here. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I talk slow, I guess 19 we can do it. All right, I'll go ahead -- let's close the 20 regular -- or the Special Commissioners Court meeting at 21 10:28, and we'll open the public hearing regarding the 22 abandoning, discontinuing, vacating of Ace Reid Road. 23 Commissioner Baldwin, do you have any comments? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you. 25 Thank you very much. And, as you know, we had -- we had 76 1 received a request from Mrs. Spencer that lives on the end 2 of Ace Reid -- Ace Reid Road, to abandon it from our public 3 list, and we have received a letter from her that says 4 please abandon the road. And we also have letters from Mr. 5 Brown to abandon the road. And, after some thought and 6 visiting, Mrs. Spencer -- I don't want to -- don't let me 7 put words in your mouth, but after her visiting with some 8 friends and her attorney, she's decided that she does not 9 want to abandon the road. And, shortly thereafter, we 10 received a letter from Mr. Brown that says the same thing. 11 So, there -- and in my note to -- my memo to 12 you all in here, it is my feeling, since both parties are no 13 longer in agreement concerning the abandonment, the County 14 should not proceed with the abandonment at this time, which 15 is what I want to do. I don't want to abandon the road. 16 However, if -- and this is not an agenda item, but it -- I 17 want to bring it up for conversation for a future agenda 18 item, and that is, you know, the -- just like I said in our 19 earlier meeting, this is really nothing more than a 20 glorified driveway. And there are numerous out in Precinct 21 4 that I know of, and several in my precinct today, and I 22 think that we should address that at -- somehow at some 23 point. Some point in the near future, we need to collect 24 these long, private -- or those long driveways that the 25 County maintains and bring them in, and we need to make a 77 1 decision on those things, what to do with them. I'm not a 2 fan of maintaining people's driveways, and definitely not 3 anything in the future of approving. So, that's for a near 4 future agenda item that the County Engineer's going to -- 5 we're going to visit with and bring back. 6 Back on Ace Reid Road here, when our 7 discussions first came up of the abandonment of Ace Reid 8 Road, what triggered the thing was Road and Bridge 9 discovered a locked gate across a public maintained -- 10 county-maintained road, and we had -- Mrs. Spencer was kind 11 enough to come into the Commissioners Court. We visited, 12 had a nice visit, and the County Judge told her that the -- 13 the gate has to go. You cannot lock a gate on a 14 county-maintained public road. Well -- and they did that; 15 they opened it for a while. But now, as you see, we have 16 photographs here of a locked gate on a county-maintained 17 road. And I'm going to -- I'm going to be just as nice as I 18 can here, and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to pull that 19 off, but years ago, when I was on the Court before, if 20 something like this would come up, there wouldn't be any 21 nice letter-writing. The -- the Commissioner would drive 22 through it with his maintainer and it -- the problem would 23 be over. 24 But there's a problem here. We are denying 25 access to the public on this public road, or we are allowing 78 1 it to happen. This smaller photograph -- I don't know if 2 you guys can see this, and for a certain amount of money I 3 will pass it over there and let you see it up close. But, 4 it's taken after dark, and if you're driving -- I promise 5 you, if you're driving 30 miles an hour, you're not going to 6 see that gate until you're right up on it, or in it. So, 7 it's -- there is a safety factor. It's against the law to 8 have the thing there, et cetera. I think that the County 9 Engineer has all authority to -- I mean, it's in the rules 10 and regulations, and probably some -- I'm sure some State 11 law, that he can simply write a letter to the owners out 12 there, whether that's Mr. Brown and Mrs. Spencer, and, in a 13 pleasant way, tell them to get the gate out of the way, and 14 give them a certain amount of time. And, if not, we'll take 15 it down for them. So, that's -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- all I got to say 18 about that. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The comment, also -- and, 20 you know, we -- since we were going to go towards 21 abandoning, I think if you look at it, it's not -- the gate 22 can't be opened. The posts need to come out of the way. 23 That entire structure is in the county right-of-way. Even 24 that -- that road is probably by prescription, and there's 25 still a certain amount needed on each side of that road for 79 1 us to maintain that road properly. So, by looking at the 2 picture, wherever the fences -- our fences going along the 3 side need to go back to that point, and if not, they need to 4 be a reasonable amount to allow the County to maintain that 5 road, which is probably, at a minimum number, 10 feet on 6 each side, and I mean bare minimum. Probably more than that 7 would certainly be best. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: My recollection was 9 that when we last had this in Court, the Judge made it very 10 clear that the gate would have to remain open until -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- and unless the road 13 were abandoned. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, is there any 16 reason that it's closed? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can open it -- I mean, 19 it is a public hearing, so if anyone -- Mrs. Spencer is 20 here. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Spencer? I told 22 to you stay at home. 23 MRS. SPENCER: No, you didn't. The Browns 24 don't live on this property, so they are out of town, so 25 they're not here very often. I'm really the one that uses 80 1 the gate the most. However, it puts me in a difficult 2 position, because I don't own the land that the gate is on. 3 If I leave the gate open, then -- I understand it's a county 4 road and it's supposed to be open, but it puts me in a 5 position of opening the gate onto someone's property, and he 6 owns the gate. It's on -- on his land; it has his logo on 7 the gate. So, it's kind of a difficult situation for me. 8 When I left today, I did leave it open, but it has a 9 triggering mechanism when you drive over it, and I did leave 10 it open one day when I left, and when I came home it had 11 closed, and I don't know why. So, I don't know how to 12 permanently disarm it myself. I don't have the book on it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in your defense, 14 some of the -- probably, if it's not yours -- I thought it 15 was your gate. If it's not your gate, you probably -- 16 really, we need -- the letter would go to Mr. Brown; he owns 17 it, and you probably don't have any authority -- 18 MRS. SPENCER: I don't feel free to take it 19 down. I mean, I -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You probably don't have 21 the right to take it down. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Probably shouldn't. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in that area -- 24 I mean, I don't have any problem with the Road and Bridge 25 Department -- those guys can pretty easily disable and 81 1 permanently open -- I don't have any problem with us doing 2 it. I don't think -- it's not destroying it, just opening 3 it. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think -- how 5 about -- how about this? If we can get the County Engineer 6 to send a letter to Mr. Brown telling him that the gate -- 7 and the road is not to be abandoned, and we can be 8 responding to his letter. If the road is not to be 9 abandoned, then the gate must be permanently opened, and -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Removed. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Or -- and the posts 12 either moved back or removed from the their current 13 location. 14 MRS. SPENCER: Yeah. And may I suggest you 15 tell him how wide it needs to be? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Yes, with all 17 the -- 18 MRS. SPENCER: I have no idea. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: With all the 20 specifications. Could we do that, Frank? 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't there another 23 possible solution that could be added to that letter, as 24 well, Commissioner? And that would be to offer Mr. Brown 25 sale of that property. Then he can do what he wants to do 82 1 with it. 2 MRS. SPENCER: I'm sorry? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Offer to Mr. Brown 4 the right to purchase that property on which that road -- 5 that easement is, and he can do with that, after he 6 purchases it, what he wants to do with it. And the County 7 will -- at that point, will abandon the maintenance of it at 8 that juncture. If he wants that road so bad to be private, 9 then buy it from the County. 10 MRS. SPENCER: That leads to a problem for 11 me, however. I am at the end of the road. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, the -- no, you've 13 got to have ingress and egress. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I realize they'd have 15 to work out an easement with whoever purchases the property; 16 I understand that. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's where we 18 started the first time, is just to abandon the road. We 19 were just going to discontinue the road for maintenance and 20 abandon it as a -- 21 MR. ODOM: Still be public access or a 22 private road, whatever you want to do once the maintenance 23 is removed. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can remove the 25 maintenance, and then it's the landowner's choice whether it 83 1 stays public or -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The issue -- I don't know 3 if there's any livestock; if that's the reason he wants the 4 gate or not. But, if there is, there's a cattle guard 5 option that he could purchase and the County could install 6 for an installation cost of the cattle guard there. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: If we change it to 8 nonmaintained, it still can't have a gate as long as it's a 9 county road. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Then they could 11 request the abandonment as a public road, turn it into a 12 private road. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're about done 14 with Item 2.8. Let's go ahead and close the public hearing 15 at 10:39, and we'll go on to Item 2.9, which is consider 16 abandoning, discontinuing, vacating Ace Reid Road as a 17 county-maintained road. I guess there's no action on that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to pull that 19 item right off the agenda. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No action. All right. 21 Let's take our morning break, and we'll reconvene at 10:50. 22 (Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Let's go 25 ahead and get started again. It's 10 till 11:00. Let's go 84 1 to 2.14, which is consider and discuss approving the 2 proposed Kerr County Park Rules and Regulations and set 3 public hearing for same. I've incorporated the comments 4 that Commissioner Williams provided, and my comments. And 5 let me just go ahead -- I don't think we need to take any 6 action, but hand these out to the other Commissioners now, 7 and we will look at this again at the next meeting, and in 8 the interim, I will send these down to the County Attorney 9 for their input. I think we're at the -- you know, they're 10 getting pretty close, and I think it's more a matter of 11 making sure we have -- we do what we say we're doing, and 12 wording it properly. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Add those things about 14 curfews and wake-free zones. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Under Section 4 on Page 16 2, this is a change from the -- Commissioner Williams looked 17 at this for the first time. I kind of added that, got rid 18 of some of the not walking or running on dams. And it says 19 any -- as we talked about at our last meeting, acting in a 20 dangerous or unsafe manner -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- is unlawful. And then 23 to use or ignite fireworks of any description in any -- in 24 or from any county park or dam. So, that fireworks issue is 25 addressed there. No-wake is not addressed in here, but I 85 1 think we need to probably -- I'll hand-write that in, or get 2 that in, and we'll send it down to the County Attorney, as 3 well. I'll put it under Miscellaneous. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay? So we're slowly 6 moving along on our Park Rules. 2.18 is consider and 7 discuss budget reclassification request to transfer funds 8 from Capital Outlay for landscaping and shelving to purchase 9 a new computer to replace damaged one at Extension Office. 10 MS. PIEPER: They're not here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not here. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is this for next 13 year's budget or for this year? This is just like a budget 14 amendment. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this is a budget 16 amendment. As I recall, we dealt with that during the 17 hearings. We told Eddie that he needed to put this on as an 18 agenda -- as a budget amendment; that we couldn't act on it, 19 and I -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For this year? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For this year. But let's 22 pass on that and see if we can get Tammy to call -- or I'll 23 get Tommy, maybe, and see really -- it probably should be 24 handled as a budget amendment. 2.19, consider and discuss 25 supporting the Children's Health Insurance Program. Ramon 86 1 Chapa. 2 MR. CHAPA: How are y'all doing? You have a 3 long meeting. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're getting through it 5 quicker than usual. 6 MR. CHAPA: My name is Ramon Chapa. First of 7 all, thank you for the invitation today. Thank you, Tammy. 8 Brand new program called the Children's Health Insurance 9 Program; I don't know if y'all have heard about it. The 10 State has already started doing some public service 11 announcements, trying to promote the program. The 12 Children's Health Insurance Program was enacted by the 13 Legislature, due to the fact there's 1.5 million uninsured 14 children in the state of Texas. Texas and California lead 15 the way of uninsured children in the United States. They 16 started this program with Tobacco Settlement funding, and 17 for every dollar the State of Texas puts into the program, 18 it's matched by funding, $3 by the federal government. 19 Now, I'm coming here today because of the 20 fact that the United Way of San Antonio has obtained the 21 duty of doing the outreach, going to different counties -- 22 communities to try to promote this program. The counties 23 under our jurisdiction are going to be Bandera, Bexar, 24 Comal, Gillespie, Guadalupe, Karnes, Kendall, Kerr, and 25 Wilson. So, my job is to come out here to the communities, 87 1 and I want to go straight to the leadership of the cities 2 and the counties to let them know about this brand-new 3 program, what it entails, and hopefully to get your 4 assistance in trying to promote the program so that we can 5 find the uninsured children here in the county of Kerr. 6 There is about 1.5 million uninsured children 7 in the state of Texas. In Bexar County, there's about 8 100,000. When you include these rural counties, as I've 9 stated, it's about 150,000 uninsured children. Here in Kerr 10 County alone, there's about 2,500 uninsured children. 11 That's quite a lot of uninsured children, so that's what 12 this program is, the Children's Health Insurance Program. 13 Now, the United Way in San Antonio obtained the duties to 14 come in and do the outreach through the Texas Department of 15 Health. The Catholic Charities Archdiocese of San Antonio 16 is providing the program to obtain contributions, office 17 space, and administrative and clerical support, so therefore 18 a lot of the literature and my business cards are from 19 Catholic Charities; I just want to inform you of that fact. 20 So, anyway, the CHIP program is a health 21 insurance for children from birth through 18 who do not have 22 health insurance and who don't qualify for Medicaid. This 23 includes children who are U.S. citizens and legal permanent 24 residents here in the San Antonio area and the surrounding 25 area, where there's lot of tourism-based industry. The 88 1 parents work, maybe they're single parents. They make 2 enough to not qualify the children for Medicaid, but they 3 don't make enough money to insure the children. Therefore, 4 they started this program. Some of the benefits are regular 5 check-ups, shots, eye exams, glasses, prescription drugs. 6 So, it includes vision and also includes dental; 7 everything's included in this program. 8 Now, this ability is based on income and 9 family size. Families need to complete an application, and 10 if they qualify, no family will pay more man $18 a month to 11 insure their children. Now, that's not per child; that's 12 $18 per month for their family. And, in addition, 13 co-payments for office visits, prescription drugs, are going 14 to cost from $2 to $10 per visit, so nobody will pay more 15 than $10 for prescription drugs, and nobody will pay more 16 than $10 co-visit for -- to visit the doctor. 17 What we want to do is come to you, as the 18 leaders here in the county, and ask your support. We want 19 to do a big press conference later, in late August, so I'm 20 coming to ask you -- basically, as the leaders, to make you 21 aware of the program; that -- you know, that we're starting 22 to come into the community here, trying to find the 23 uninsured children. The mayor, Mr. Stephen Fine, has 24 already issued a proclamation proclaiming the month of 25 August as CHIP month here. I've already met with the 89 1 Superintendent, Mr. Jackson, and the school board. And, 2 what we do is basically three things; we have literature and 3 posters and applications that we can come and distribute 4 throughout the community. I come in and do presentations, 5 so if y'all are members of different organizations, Rotary, 6 Lions, PTA, whatever, I can come and do presentations to let 7 the community know about the program. And we do training. 8 We come out here in the community and train, free of charge, 9 about a 2-hour training, social workers, counselors, people 10 that can actually assist the parents with filling out the 11 applications, get them -- to get them into this program. 12 So, the mayor has issued a proclamation 13 proclaiming the month of August as CHIP month. I've spoken 14 with the Chamber people. Sherry Cunningham has been very 15 supportive; she has provided me a list of all the churches 16 here in the county. We're going to do a mail-out to all the 17 churches of all denominations, trying to get the 18 organizations involved through their congregations. Patsy 19 Hodges from Sid Peterson Hospital is going to -- is going to 20 have a big meeting for us on August 11th so we can get some 21 nurses, social workers to come to the meetings, and 22 hopefully we can provide this training to them. And just 23 this morning, I just dropped off 700 applications to Sherry 24 Hayes over here in the Department of Health. So, 25 everybody's coming together to try to find these uninsured 90 1 children. 2 When you come into Kerrville -- I haven't 3 been here in a while. Very, very beautiful. It looks like 4 it's very prosperous and so on, but there's about 2,500 5 uninsured children that we need your help in trying to find. 6 And, like I said, we're going straight to the mayor and the 7 counties -- mayors of the cities, County Judges, 8 Commissioners, and Superintendents, Chamber leaders, Chamber 9 of Commence, going straight to the leadership so that y'all 10 can assist us. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Chapa, I guess 12 basically you're asking us for a resolution supporting the 13 program? 14 MR. CHAPA: Right. What I want to ask from 15 y'all is, later, we're trying to bring maybe a U. S. 16 Senator, U.S. Congressman into different rural counties to 17 do a big press conference. We'd like to be able to say that 18 it's been endorsed by the -- by the respective mayor, 19 respective Commissioners Court, Superintendent, the school 20 boards. We want to get the leadership to try to get the 21 endorsement; it would make it much easier for us. We 22 already started -- I've sent some public service 23 announcements to the Mountain Sun, the Daily Times, and to 24 the radio stations, so it would be much easier for us if we 25 could have some of you Commissioners and the mayor can go 91 1 out and help us to speak to promote the program, and maybe 2 an outsider come in from Bexar County. So, we're looking 3 for endorsements. 4 Mr. -- County Judge Mark Stroeher in 5 Gillespie County has already passed a resolution. The 6 County Judges of Comal and Guadalupe -- we kind of have been 7 clustering. We started over there in Guadalupe and Comal, 8 since they're kind of close together, kind of finished there 9 now, and we're coming over into Kerr, Kendall, Gillespie. 10 So, what I'm looking for is your support to get the word out 11 to the citizens, to your constituents, and hopefully help us 12 out with some kind of a resolution and endorsement for this 13 program. Doesn't cost you anything. First thing everybody 14 asks is how much does it cost. This is not costing you 15 anything. Tobacco Settlement is going to take care of that 16 for -- for these uninsured children. The Sid Peterson 17 Hospital is very supportive of this program because of the 18 fact that now you have more children that are insured. Like 19 I said, Mr. Jackson supported it because of the fact 20 children won't miss as much school, so they get reimbursed 21 more from the State, so it's a snowball effect. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple 23 questions, if you're finished. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is, do you 25 have a form resolution, or is it a form similar to the 92 1 Gillespie County form? 2 MR. CHAPA: Well, we don't have one for you. 3 We like for you to initiate -- you know, I don't know if 4 there's any particular language that you like to incorporate 5 in your resolution. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can we do that today? 7 I mean, can we modify or take the -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- Gillespie County 10 one -- I think we could. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we can take 12 Gillespie County's. It looks -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Gillespie and 14 Comal are -- are the same. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple 16 questions about it. First of all, I think the program has a 17 great deal of merit. 18 MR. CHAPA: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just curious if you 20 know off the top of your head how many uninsured children 21 there are in Kerr County. You said the number of Bexar 22 County -- 23 MR. CHAPA: Kerr County, sir, there's -- 24 depending on -- we've gotten various statistics. The 25 statistics we have are from the Texas Department of Health, 93 1 and they're from 1996, so we kind of feel they're kind of 2 conservative. There's between 2,500 and 3,000 uninsured 3 children in Kerr County. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. I 5 have a couple other questions -- 6 MR. CHAPA: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- with respect to 8 the benefits structure of the plan. The $18 a month, in 9 terms of health care costs, is not a lot of money. 10 MR. CHAPA: No, sir. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But it's very helpful 12 to the people who need it; I understand it, and I'm 13 supportive of that. I'm just curious, in terms of -- of 14 what it pays out in benefits. Is it a total pay -- in 15 situations where the insurance is used, is there a co-pay 16 situation? Capitation fees and doctors, are they reduced by 17 negotiation? Are the hospital fees reduced by reason of 18 negotiation? Things of that nature that give you a little 19 more insight into what the program is all about. 20 MR. CHAPA: Okay. What happens is, someone 21 will fill out an application and it gets sent to Austin. 22 Okay, that's the TexCare Partnership; that's the 23 administrative component of the program. The TexCare 24 Partnership determines eligibility of that family. They'll 25 get back a letter stating how much the payment's going to be 94 1 monthly, how much their co-payments are going to be for 2 doctor visits, how much prescriptions are going to be. Then 3 they fill out the applicable form, send it back, then they 4 get the insurance cards. Now, here, Ms. Patsy Hodges -- I 5 don't know if y'all know Patsy. She's here at Sid Peterson, 6 a social worker working with the hospital. There is -- 7 there is tons -- I mean, you can start right here -- of 8 doctors and physicians that have signed up for the program. 9 They will get reimbursed through -- through a process 10 through the TexCare Partnership through the programs from 11 the State and the Department of Health. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, there is a 13 negotiated rate or capitation fee for doctors? 14 MR. CHAPA: Right. It's kind of similar to 15 Medicaid, but the thing is -- Medicare, but the thing is 16 that, like I stated, many families, because they work or 17 they're single-parent homes, they work and they make enough 18 so that they don't qualify for Medicaid, but then they can't 19 insure their children, because then they can't pay the 20 bills. So, therefore, that's why this program was started. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The purpose of my 22 asking was just to be able to establish that -- that once 23 having subscribed to the plan for $18 a month, they're not 24 being saddled with some kind of a co-pay that they can't 25 afford. 95 1 MR. CHAPA: No, no, no, not at all. It's 2 going to depend on the family -- the household and amount of 3 income. In some cases, they may pay $15 annually for the 4 program, but the State is going to make sure that the 5 physicians get -- and the hospitals get reimbursed. Now, I 6 just did a presentation to the Guadalupe Valley Hospital in 7 Seguin, and they're, like, very supportive, because just 8 before my presentation, there was a program about all the 9 monies that weren't paid by different -- by different 10 people, and how much money they were -- they were in the 11 red. Because programs kind of like this one are going to 12 alleviate some of that -- that monies that the hospital 13 could generate. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 15 MR. CHAPA: So we just -- it's a good 16 program. We -- we're kind of slow coming out here, because 17 we were waiting for the physicians to get on board. We 18 didn't want to come out here and start promoting the program 19 with no doctors -- we didn't want to send them all the way 20 to San Antonio that don't have even vehicles. But the 21 physicians are on board. Like I said, the Sid Peterson 22 Hospital is working with us to hopefully get this program to 23 where the community -- CHIP will become a household word 24 here in Kerrville and Kerr County. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like a good 96 1 program. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, great program. 3 I'd like to make a motion that we take the Gillespie County 4 resolution, as presented to us, change the "Gillespie" 5 references to "Kerr County," approve the resolution, and 6 authorize the County Judge to sign same. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second the 9 motion, but I still have a comment to make here. Let's see, 10 I wanted to say that this is good -- this is a good program. 11 We have -- last year, we gave a salary increase to all 12 County employees, and I don't remember what it was. Our 13 insurance program went up, and I fall in this category 14 myself, as an example; I make less money -- I take home less 15 money this year because of the increase in our insurance. 16 We actually have one that I know of -- one elected official 17 that can get this program right here. Now, that's terrible, 18 that we have an elected official that can get this stuff 19 right here. It's embarrassing to me. But, my -- really, my 20 question to you, Mr. Chapa, is this sentence in here, 21 "Children do not have to be U.S. citizens to apply." What 22 does that mean? 23 MR. CHAPA: Well, that -- that is a little 24 bit false. What happened was, there was three programs -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What else in here is 97 1 false? 2 MR. CHAPA: No, that's the only thing. What 3 happened was there was three programs; one was Medicare, one 4 was the CHIP program, and one was another program called the 5 Texas Healthy Kids. Now, the Texas Healthy Kids was 6 established for people that weren't U.S. citizens, but, 7 because of the fact that most of those people that were 8 applying for the Texas Healthy Kids qualified also for the 9 Children's Health Insurance Program, there's a possibility 10 that they're going to do away with the Texas Healthy Kids. 11 What happens is you send the application to 12 Austin. Austin will determine if that person goes into 13 Medicaid, Medicare, whether it goes into CHIP, or whether it 14 goes into Texas Healthy Kids. If it goes into Medicare, it 15 gets funneled through Texas Department of Human Services, 16 and they take care of it. If it goes through CHIP, they 17 submit the paper -- appropriate paperwork. But if you're -- 18 if they weren't U.S. citizens, they were not a U.S. citizen, 19 this other insurance plan that was called the Texas Healthy 20 Kids would have provided some assistance to these people, 21 but the premiums would have been much, much higher. But, 22 because of the fact that those -- those people that are 23 applying for Texas Healthy Kids, there's a possibility 24 that -- that that program is going to be disbanded, so I'm 25 here today speaking for the Children's Health Insurance -- 98 1 the CHIP. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: CHIP. 3 MR. CHAPA: Those three programs come under 4 the Texas Care Partnership. But, I think from -- from 5 personnel meetings that we've been attending and so on, 6 they're going to be doing away with the Texas Healthy Kids 7 program. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, you're 9 saying to me that the CHIP program is not offered to illegal 10 aliens? 11 MR. CHAPA: No, sir. You have to be a U.S. 12 citizen or a legal -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 MR. CHAPA: -- permanent resident. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll go for it. 16 MR. CHAPA: U.S. citizen or permanent 17 resident. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion from 19 Commissioner Griffin, second from Commissioner Baldwin, to 20 support the Children's Health Insurance Program by passing a 21 resolution, same form being that of the resolution passed by 22 Gillespie County and submitted in our packet, with the 23 change being we'll insert the word "Kerr" for "Gillespie" 24 throughout and authorize the County Judge to sign same. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other correction 99 1 on the fourth Whereas. "Whereas, CHIP is one of three 2 programs in the TexCare Partnership that help..." Should be 3 "helps." Just thought I'd do my job here. 4 MR. CHAPA: Now, let me also specify that in 5 regard to the County employees or other employees here 6 that -- that might have insurance and are struggling to make 7 the payments, anyone that is paying more than 10 percent of 8 their net income can -- can maybe possibly qualify for the 9 CHIP program, can transfer to this program. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Shoot, I'm going to 11 apply. 12 MR. CHAPA: It's a good program, and like I 13 said, without the doctors, the program won't work. But 14 everybody here has been very supportive; everybody has been 15 very, very nice. It's a good program. Hopefully, with your 16 leadership here in the county, we can fund these uninsured 17 children. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Is there any 19 further discussion? All in favor, say aye. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Opposed? 22 (No response.) 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Thank you, 24 Mr. Chapa. Good program. 25 MR. CHAPA: Thank you very, very much. Y'all 100 1 have a nice day. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, let's go back to 3 Item 2.10. Again, we got to do -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you 5 something. Do we have Mr. Chapa's address? 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me go ahead again, 8 and we'll close the Special Commissioners Court meeting at 9 11:10 and we'll open the public hearing to address Item 10 2.10. We'll now open the public hearing concerning the 11 canceling of Block 1, Lots 1 through 11, Block 2, Lots 12 12 through 21, and Block 3, Lots 11 through 24 of Sunridge 13 Subdivision. Any comments on this to get us started on the 14 public hearing? Frank? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is the one we -- 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Sun Ridge -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- we did a couple 18 weeks ago. 19 MR. JOHNSTON: Sun Ridge Subdivision here, La 20 Hacienda will abandon the old plat so we can do a new plat 21 of the same area. The easiest way to do it is abandon and 22 do a new one, so that's what this is all about. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there anyone from the 24 public who would like to comment in the public hearing? 25 MR. VOELKEL: I'd like to make one comment, 101 1 if I could. Lee Voelkel again. Frank, my only concern was 2 our plat deals with certain lots out of this existing 3 subdivision, and I think Frank knows very well all of the 4 lots included and what we're trying to cancel. I just 5 wanted to make sure that we do it right. In Block 1, in the 6 agenda item, it's got Lots 1 through 11, and my -- my 7 clients, the property owners only own Lots 1 through 5. 8 Lots 6 through 11 have been replatted -- and this gets 9 complicated -- into Section 2 of this Sun Ridge Addition. 10 So, I don't know if it's appropriate to include those lots. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: That's correct. 12 MR. VOELKEL: Cancel or not. Then, also, in 13 the agenda item, Block 2, Lots 12 through 21, that's 14 correct. In Block 3, we have Lots 22 through 25 that 15 we're -- that we're dealing with in our replat, so I didn't 16 know if -- if we just needed to make those changes in the 17 motion. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: That is confusing; glad you 19 brought that up. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The motion -- so that 21 we'll word that motion so that we include that, because 22 actually, when you get to 2.12, we're going to straighten it 23 all out, make it all nice and tidy, right? Okay. Because 24 of -- actually, these three items are all tied together. 25 They're all one thing. 102 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there any other 2 comments during the public -- for the public hearing? 3 (No response.) 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We'll close the 5 public hearing at 11:12, and we'll reopen the Special 6 Commissioners Court meeting and move on to Item 2.11, 7 consider approving the cancellation of Block 1, Lots 1 8 through 11, Block 2, Lots 12 through 21, and Block 3, Lots 9 21 through 24 of Sun Ridge Subdivision, as discussed in 10 public hearing. Commissioner Griffin. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. I think 12 maybe -- or can we do this -- let me ask the question -- if 13 we could consider 2.11 and 2.12 together, then I think I can 14 form a motion that will say, in essence, that if there are 15 any corrections we need to make to the cancellation to make 16 sure that 2.12 gets done properly, we will include that, and 17 I'll include that in the motion. Can I do that? Because 18 this is one of those things where we're -- we're unmaking 19 the pie and then redoing it. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And making one -- and 21 remaking one. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it's going to be 23 one pie when we get through with it. Do you see what I'm 24 getting at here? In other words, the item in 2.12, the 25 preliminary plat of the La Hacienda Addition, has as a 103 1 prerequisite doing what's in 2.11, as we understand it, but 2 if there are any adjustments to that, I would like to 3 include that in the motion, so that if there's a lot number 4 that we need to go back and pick up, or one that we need to 5 drop or whatever, we can do that as a part of doing 2.12. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about if we approve 7 2.11 as it is, and then if we have to modify the preliminary 8 plat at the final platting period, we can do the adjustments 9 during the final plat? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Does that work? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a simple 12 way to keep the platting separate from the cancellation. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll make the motion 14 that we approve Item 2.11, consider approving the 15 cancellations as discussed in the public hearing. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion and second to -- 18 motion from Commissioner Griffin, second from Commissioner 19 Williams, to approve the cancellation of Block 1, Lots 1 20 through 11, Block 2, Lots 12 through 21, and Block 3, Lots 21 21 through 24 of Sun Ridge Subdivision. Any further 22 discussion? All in favor, say aye. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 25 (No response.) 104 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Going on to Item 2 2.12, consider approving preliminary plat of La Hacienda 3 Addition, Precinct 4. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Franklin? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: When you look on this plat at 6 the as-platted portion, you kind of see what we're talking 7 about a little easier. The part that's highlighted in dark 8 lines is -- is the part that we're changing right now. And 9 the Lots 6 through 11 has already been replatted before into 10 the Phase II. So, I think we're all right on that. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: As you can see, what they're 13 doing on these portions, they're taking the -- the Block 14 1 -- portion of Block 1, Block 2, and Block 3, then adding 15 additional acreage that they own on -- what do you call 16 that -- Lot 2. Lot 2 of Block 2, incorporating the entire 17 La Hacienda infrastructure out there. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is taking all of 19 those previous small lots that were not developed, put them 20 into reasonably-sized -- good-sized lots, which we should be 21 in favor of, and I'll make a motion that we approve the 22 preliminary plat as submitted. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: It makes or breaks the -- 24 what's that called? La Hacienda Drive? 25 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir. On the plat, the 105 1 Foothill Drive, we're making it La Hacienda Drive. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: It's actually where the road 3 is now, not just a straight line across there. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- from Commissioner 7 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, to approve the 8 preliminary plat of La Hacienda Addition as presented. Any 9 further discussion? All in favor, say aye. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Opposed? 12 (No response.) 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. All right. Let's 14 go to 2.20, consider and discuss resolution to apply for 15 2001-2002 Community Development Program Grant to assist the 16 Upper Guadalupe River Authority -- Authority's Kerrville 17 South Sewer Service Project. That's a mouthful. 18 Commissioner Williams? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, 20 Commissioner. This is back on the agenda, we having done 21 some -- some more work since the last time we discussed it 22 here. I invited Mr. Hartzell of Grantworks, who I noted to 23 you earlier this morning was successful in moving our 24 application through for approval for the mapping and 25 planning -- to get us the grant for mapping and planning in 106 1 the unincorporated areas. Since last we met, I have had a 2 meeting with Jim Brown, the General Manager of the Upper 3 Guadalupe River Authority, and Mayor Stephen Fine of the 4 City of Kerrville, with respect to the City of Kerrville's 5 willingness to accept the effluent in this particular 6 area -- unincorporated area of Kerrville South and Kerr 7 County. The mayor has indicated to me that this was a 8 project that they could look favorably upon if they -- if we 9 could satisfy all of the -- the elements without going to a 10 contract to do so. And, of course, all of that is 11 predicated on our ability to -- to attract the grant monies 12 for this particular purpose. So, I think without further 13 ado, I'd like to have Mr. Hartzell come to the podium and -- 14 and give us some sense of what these two particular grants 15 are all about and how we might go about it; what we need to 16 do to go about it and so forth, and we'll move them forward. 17 Thank you, Eric. Thanks for coming. 18 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you, Commissioner and 19 board, for having me here today. This -- the two grants 20 we're talking about are -- are the Community Development 21 Grant and the Colonia Fund Grant, both of which the County 22 is eligible to apply for unincorporated areas in the county. 23 And we've talked about this a little bit before. Right now, 24 the time is drawing nearer to -- the applications need to be 25 in the end of August, so we're looking for the Court's 107 1 permission to -- to proceed with the application to the 2 Texas Department of Housing and Community Affairs for the 3 $250,000 grant to do a portion of the Kerrville South area, 4 and then another half million dollar grant to do another 5 larger portion of the Kerrville South area. 6 I think, as we mentioned before in a previous 7 meeting, the County's not liable for any match; the U.G.R.A. 8 has agreed to put in the matching funds for both grants, 9 since they will be the owner and the operator of the 10 collection system which will connect into the City of 11 Kerrville's trunk line. Are there any specific questions 12 about the grant process that we haven't covered in the 13 previous meetings that y'all might have for me? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it might be 15 beneficial, before we get into that, for people to clearly 16 understand the area we're talking about. 17 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about 19 Ranchero Road down to at least the Nimitz School, where 20 there is a trunk line. What side, I don't know, but a major 21 size line, take the effluent from the Nimitz School and hook 22 it into the Riverhill trunk somewhere in the vicinity of 23 Camp Meeting Road. And anything that lies within that area 24 is eligible for consideration in this particular project. 25 MR. HARTZELL: Right. 108 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's 2 important also that the Court hear again that this grant -- 3 or one of these grants would be -- or that some of those 4 funds could be used to assist people in hookup fees. 5 MR. HARTZELL: That's right. Anyone who -- 6 the U.G.R.A. will be conducting a survey of the homes in the 7 area that will be eligible for connection to the system, and 8 those who are considered low- to moderate-income, which 9 would be, I believe, about $35,000 or less for a family of 10 four, will be eligible for a free connection to the system. 11 They won't have to pay for their yard line to their home. 12 And that will be installed, you know, by the professional 13 contractor that puts the lines in, as well. So, yeah, its a 14 good deal for these people a lot of times who -- you know, a 15 yard line can be $1,000, $1,500 pretty easily. The grant 16 would also pay for lift stations. There's a -- I think 17 there was some discussion that there's a possible upgrade 18 needed to a lift station, or I should maybe say a larger 19 line connecting to the lift station the City of Kerrville 20 owns, which would also be an eligible expense, since the 21 main purpose of that would be to get the sewage to that lift 22 station. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Both of those are a 24 possibility. 25 MR. HARTZELL: Those are both possibilities. 109 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: An engineering study 2 will be required to determine the load that's capable of -- 3 that line from Nimitz School to the Riverhill trunk, to know 4 whether that can handle the load coming from that area, or 5 whether that line has to be expanded. 6 MR. HARTZELL: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is a good 8 possibility that the lift station that's somewhere in the 9 vicinity of Camp Meeting Creek or down in that area may also 10 have to be improved. I have one other question that I need 11 to ask, although I think I know the answer. Within this 12 particular area, there -- there is -- there are homes that 13 don't qualify by reason of the income -- eligible income 14 level. Given that program, is it still possible for those 15 homeowners, if they have a desire, to hook up to this if 16 they front those costs themselves? 17 MR. HARTZELL: Of course, yes. In fact, they 18 will be more than encouraged. And, in some cases with these 19 kind of projects, the -- the district will take it upon 20 themselves to hook those up who aren't -- don't meet the 21 income criteria, to make it fair for everyone. However, 22 because it's an income-based program, the grant itself can't 23 be used to hook those people up. A lot of times those -- 24 for the people who can afford it, $1,000 is a relatively 25 minor expense -- relatively minor expense, compared to 110 1 redoing a septic tank, or even just the maintenance on a 2 septic tank over a period of time. So, usually there's a 3 pretty high hookup rate with these kind of projects. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we don't have the 5 attitude at this time that we can require people to hook up? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In fact, we -- there 7 is an Attorney General's opinion that says we can't. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I just 9 wanted to make sure that we didn't have that -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. That's -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- attitude that we're 12 going to go out there -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But by providing 14 those front-end costs, it makes it more palatable for 15 people. 16 MR. HARTZELL: I drove through the area, and 17 it looks like -- I mean, just from the -- visually, it looks 18 like a good number of those people are going to qualify for 19 the free hookups. I would imagine it would be in excess of 20 70 percent, just from looking at the houses and the 21 condition of the houses out there. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I'll also tell you 23 that U.G.R.A. has talked about incentivizing those who don't 24 qualify for grant money to do that; that if, when the system 25 is put in, the people would agree to hook up, that they 111 1 would do it at no charge to get the maximum number of 2 people -- 3 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- as possible on it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. You want to get 6 everybody you can. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You want to get 8 everyone you can. So, you know, if you do it now, you get 9 it for nothing; if you do it later, you're going to have to 10 pay. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Provide as many 12 up-front incentives as we can. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about, though -- 15 I've always wondered about this and never had the 16 opportunity to ask it. What if there's four mobile homes 17 there that are really not owned by those folks that live in 18 them, which there are lots of them there, and the owner owns 19 four in a row there and he lives out in Mr. Griffin's 20 neighborhood. I mean, high-dollar stuff. And he makes a 21 little -- he's got a family of four, makes a little over 35 22 grand. How does that work? Are we talking about the owner? 23 MR. HARTZELL: Talking about the -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got to be the owner? 25 MR. HARTZELL: Yeah, it's actually the person 112 1 who lives in the home, is who you're considering. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The resident? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it has to be the 4 resident? 5 MR. HARTZELL: It's the resident who is 6 considered low-income or not low-income. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which answers your 8 problem. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 10 MR. HARTZELL: Yeah. And I guess the way the 11 State looks at it is, even though it's owned by someone 12 else, the likelihood of that home ever not being rented to 13 someone who's low-income is probably pretty slim. If it's a 14 mobile home on a small lot, it's probably always going to be 15 a lower-income person that lives there. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. All 17 right, buddy. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, we're actually 19 looking at two resolutions here? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We really are, and I 21 think if we take -- want to take them in order -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- because they all 24 kind of tie together. I would move, first of all, that the 25 Court approve a resolution to apply for a 2001-2002 113 1 Community Development Program Grant to assist U.G.R.A. in 2 the Kerrville South Sewer Service Project -- and the 3 resolution is in your packets -- as provided in your packet. 4 I'll add that to the motion. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Third. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion and second -- 8 motion from Commissioner Williams, second by Commissioner 9 Baldwin, to approve the resolution for the 2001-2002 10 Community Development Program Grant to assist the Upper 11 Guadalupe River Authority's Kerrville South Sewer Service 12 Project. And, the -- resolution is as presented in our 13 packet. Any further discussion? All in favor, say aye. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Opposed? 16 (No response.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None, okay. Then 2.21 is 18 consider and discuss resolution to apply for 2001 Colonia 19 Construction Grant to assist the Upper Guadalupe River 20 Authority's Kerrville South Sewer Service Project. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the other 22 half of the equation. The first was a quarter million grant 23 application; this is the half million dollar grant 24 application. Same project, same stuff. I move it. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 114 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion and a second to 2 approve the resolution to apply for the 2001 Colonia 3 Construction Grant to assist the Upper Guadalupe River 4 Authority's Kerrville South Sewer Service Project. Motion 5 made by Commissioner Williams, second by Commissioner 6 Griffin. And it's the resolution as presented in the 7 packet. Any further discussion? 8 MS. BARBEE: Can I ask if there is an original, 9 or do you use the one that was provided? 10 MR. HARTZELL: I have an original, if you'd 11 like, or you can retype it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if you have the 13 original -- 14 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we'll use the one you 16 have. Be better than the faxed copies that we have. 17 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any further discussion? 19 All in favor, say aye. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All opposed? 22 (No response.) 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How long is -- I'm just 115 1 looking; how long is 2.22 going to take? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2.22 and 2.23, 3 Commissioner, you know, are companions to this. You know, 4 we get into a review of the administrative and services 5 agreement, who's going to do this work if we get the money, 6 and how is that going to be handled, and then the subsequent 7 one is two different proposals for that service. So, 8 depending on how you want to handle it -- but they're all 9 tied together. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we do -- have a 11 public hearing? I think we can take care of Item 2.18 12 before that. And so, Eric, if you'll just sit down for a 13 minute, then we'll get back to you. Sorry about that. 14 MR. HARTZELL: That's all right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2.18 is consider and 16 discuss budget reclassification request to transfer funds 17 from Capital Outlay to Landscaping and Shelving to purchase 18 a new computer before budget. Eddie Holland. 19 MR. HOLLAND: Our computer's about five years 20 old now. They get pretty outdated by then, anyway. We've 21 had it worked on by A & M people and different ones, and it 22 just totally crashed, so we had to get another computer. 23 This is a cost share; over $2,000 computer. County's cost 24 is $1,000, so it's -- and it's loaded, all the bells and 25 whistles, and also will run a Power Point presentation. 116 1 It -- Janie's getting one of those from B.L.T. funds, which 2 doesn't cost the County anything, and this will work on 3 those things, so it's a good deal. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we just need to 5 transfer $1,000 from Landscaping and Shelving to Capital 6 Outlay? 7 MR. HOLLAND: Computer line or whatever. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Capital Outlay. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Capital Outlay. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion and second to 13 transfer $1,000 from Landscaping and Shelving to Capital 14 Outlay within the -- over -- what's the actual budget item? 15 Extension Office? What budget is that? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What, Capital Outlay? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the Extension Office. 18 What are they? 19 MR. HOLLAND: I don't know the number. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, in the Extension 21 Office. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In the Extension 23 Office. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The appropriate line 25 item. 117 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the appropriate line 2 item, thank you. What you're saying is the Aggies broke the 3 computer? 4 MR. HOLLAND: Yeah, that's true. Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any further discussion? 6 All in favor, say aye. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 9 (No response.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 11 MR. HOLLAND: Thank you, Your Honor. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Eddie. Okay. 13 Now we will -- for the third time, we will close the Special 14 Commissioners Court meeting at 11:30 -- not close; I guess 15 we'll recess it, and now we will open the public hearing to 16 consider Item 2.13, which is a public hearing regarding the 17 L.L.E.B.G. grant funds. Sheriff's Department. 18 MR. GRAHAM: James Graham with Kerr County 19 Sheriff's Department. In regards to the Local Law 20 Enforcement Budget -- or Block Grant that the County 21 received, the Sheriff's Department is currently looking into 22 actually three different avenues to expend the money on. 23 The first one is an AFIX computer program which, in effect, 24 allows us to, side-by-side, compare fingerprints, latent 25 prints of any type. It also will generate the pictures for 118 1 courtroom exhibits and all that. We're fortunate enough to 2 have a fingerprint expert in the department. Right now, the 3 only thing he can use is a magnifying glass, and it takes a 4 great amount of time to compare prints. The only other 5 avenue we have for that is to send them to the D.P.S. lab, 6 and we're looking at anywhere from two to six months 7 downtime to get results back. The computer program, itself, 8 is $875, and then we would also try to purchase a flatbed 9 scanner to scan prints in, which we could scan the prints 10 that we currently have in the jail in for quicker 11 comparisons. 12 The other item that we're looking at is a 13 video system for the patrol cars. Basically, it's a video 14 camera and audio system the deputy himself will have on 15 traffic stops that can enhance the traffic stops. It's -- 16 in dealing with DWI's or, as far that goes, any complaints 17 that come back on the department, we'd have video records of 18 a stop. With the amount of those -- they're approximately 19 $2,195 per unit -- we were looking at trying to get five 20 units. We currently -- the department has one unit at this 21 time. The balance of the funding would be used for officer 22 equipment. The Sheriff has indicated he would like to see 23 the department start furnishing the badges, which they would 24 remain with the department. A new officer coming into the 25 department is out quite a bit of money trying to get his 119 1 equipment and stuff. We'd like to be able to help them as 2 much as we could. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I recall, there's -- 4 this is just a requirement of the grant to hold this public 5 hearing? 6 MR. GRAHAM: Yes. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To let the public know 8 where the funds will be utilized. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you have some kind 10 of a meeting, board meeting of some sort, and then it's off 11 and running, isn't it? 12 MR. GRAHAM: Right. We will convene -- or I 13 will let the committee members know hopefully by the end of 14 this week, we'll have a meeting, and I'll also discuss these 15 items and listen to, you know, any suggestions that they 16 might have for the expenditure of the money. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much is the total 19 grant again? 20 MR. GRAHAM: $15,000. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $15,000? 22 MR. GRAHAM: I believe so, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you're proposing 24 today, James, is five times what, $2,500? 25 MR. GRAHAM: Five times $2,195, plus 120 1 shipping. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then $875 plus 3 $149.50? 4 ???: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 ???: The total amount of the grant is 7 $15,727, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Thank you, James. 9 MR. GRAHAM: Thank you, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we need to approve 11 it? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Public hearing. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a public 14 hearing? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is a public hearing. 16 Is there any comments from the public regarding the use of 17 the grant funds or the grant, itself? Let the record show 18 there's no comments, and we'll close the public hearing at 19 11:35 and we'll open our Commissioners Court meeting. 20 There's no action item related to that, I don't believe. It 21 was just a matter of having the public hearing as a 22 requirement of the grant. 23 Now we'll go back up to 2.22, which is -- 24 which is consider and review administrative services and 25 engineering services proposals received from Grantworks and 121 1 Groves and Associates for Kerr County's 2002/2003 T.C.D.P. 2 project. Commissioner Williams. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once again, I'd ask 4 Eric if he'd come and make his presentation on behalf of 5 Grantworks with respect to this agenda item. 6 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. The resolution that's 7 associated with this agenda item has a little preface at the 8 top that discusses the reason why we're doing this. The 9 State has determined that the R.P. process, which to select 10 engineering and administrative services takes -- delays 11 implementation of their grants if they're done after the 12 grant award, and so they're requiring -- well, they're -- 13 they're awarding an additional five points to applicants who 14 complete this process in advance of the grant application. 15 And, the way this is worded, it -- it designates those 16 people who -- those companies that will provide the 17 services. 18 And then in Section 2, it also states that 19 any contracts or commitments are dependent on the actual 20 receipt of a grant. So, of course, if no grant is awarded, 21 then you would not -- there wouldn't be a contract or an 22 agreement. And, the R.P. process was completed and 23 extend -- actually extended; the U.G.R.A. gave me the name 24 of the engineer that they like to use, and then they changed 25 it right before the deadline, so we extended the deadline 122 1 and allowed some other -- other engineers to come in. That 2 was advertised in the newspaper, as well. And, Groves 3 Engineering -- it's my understanding that that's the -- 4 U.G.R.A.'s water engineer, and they submitted a proposal 5 along with several other engineers, and Grantworks submitted 6 a proposal for administration. So, we'd like you to 7 consider -- consider that. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there anybody here 9 from Groves and Associates to speak to their engineering 10 services proposal? Appears not. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Letz, may I ask 12 you a question? Have you -- you had -- you have had some 13 business to do with this particular firm, have you not? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Groves and Associates? 15 Yes, they were the consultants we used on Flat Rock Park. 16 I mean, they -- from the standpoint of doing business, it's 17 a good firm and they did good work on that project. And 18 they also submitted a proposal for the Master Plan Project 19 for the Ag Barn, and they were very close -- high up in our 20 consideration for that project as well, but we went with a 21 different firm, just because of the expertise that we were 22 looking for. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Again, I mean, it's a 25 good firm from the standpoint of the -- this type of work. 123 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: U.G.R.A. has not 2 expressed any -- to me, at least; maybe to somebody else -- 3 has not expressed any opinion as to which firm they have any 4 preference about or -- you know, one way or the other about 5 it. So, absent any comment from that, while we're not -- 6 we're just talking about it right now. We're not under the 7 resolution; that's the next one. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, is there any 9 action required on this? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it comes up 11 under the next one. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The next one. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is more a 14 consideration and review of the proposals at this point. I 15 guess -- could you just go over, Eric, a little bit as to, I 16 guess, what the administration side of this is going to be? 17 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And what exactly the -- 19 the engineering side of the proposal is. 20 MR. HARTZELL: Okay. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More for the public, and 22 also for my benefit. 23 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. The Administrator on a 24 grant like this is in charge of setting up all the paper -- 25 all the files. The filing system, the accounting systems. 124 1 Also, the environmental review is selected by the 2 Administrator, the labor standards compliance. Any job 3 using federal dollars today has to be compliant with federal 4 labor law on the construction site, and it's Davis-Bacon 5 wage rights, all this kind of good stuff, have to be paid, 6 and so the Administrator handles that. Also, the 7 Administrator is also in charge of any approval of change 8 orders, approval of amendments, drafting, and approval of 9 amendments through the State. There's a fairly large amount 10 of paperwork that's associated with these grants, and most 11 local governments don't wish to be responsible for that, and 12 so that's the Administrator's job. Also, troubleshooting at 13 the State is usually a -- something that comes up, going 14 through their -- their processes there at the State. 15 The engineer would be responsible for the 16 preliminary design, the bid -- preparation of the bid 17 packages, inspections, and oversight during construction, 18 and one of the -- also one of the -- one of the three 19 entities that signed on the pay estimates, the other 20 entities being the contractor and the County. Which I 21 assume there would be a mechanism worked out where the 22 U.G.R.A. would also review and sign, so that everyone -- the 23 checks and balances would be there. The engineer would be 24 also responsible for the -- for as-builts at the end. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the fee for the 125 1 administrative services comes out of the grant itself? 2 MR. HARTZELL: Yes. Actually, on the 3 Community Development Grant, it would come out of the grant. 4 On the Colonia Fund, because of the way they're scored, the 5 engineer and administration would come out of the -- the 6 U.G.R.A.'s match. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they -- okay. At no 8 cost to the County. 9 MR. HARTZELL: That's right. There is no 10 cost to the County. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Directly. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one more time, 13 just to reiterate, if you will, Eric. 14 MR. HARTZELL: Sure. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The scoring system 16 with respect to these two applications, you're saying that 17 by selecting the administrator and engineer in advance of 18 the application, we score additional points? 19 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 20 MR. SIEMERS: Is that correct? 21 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. And five 22 points in this particular -- the Alamo region, where you'll 23 compete, definitely makes or breaks. Even though there's 24 600 points total scoring, a difference of as much as half a 25 point will make or break an application in terms of getting 126 1 funded. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see, okay. 3 MR. HARTZELL: So the State, by awarding 4 points, made it mandatory for everyone. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you worked with 6 Groves and Associates on this type of a -- 7 MR. HARTZELL: No, we have not. We have not. 8 I've spoken with Mr. Groves several times. Mr. Brown at 9 U.G.R.A. had -- had mentioned him as the person that he'd 10 like to work with. And, you know, his references look 11 great, but I haven't actually worked with him before. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. Well, this is 13 not an action item; it's more just a consideration item, so 14 there will be no action on Item 2.22. Item 2.23 is consider 15 and discuss resolution to authorize award of an 16 Administrative Services Contract and Engineering Services 17 Contract for Kerr County's 2001-2003 T.C.D.P. projects, 18 contingent upon grant approval. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on our 20 discussions, Commissioner, of all the three items above, 21 there is a resolution in your packet which would authorize 22 Grantworks to proceed, and it will be given the 23 Administrative Services Contract and Engineering Contract 24 fees for which to be paid from the grant. So -- is that 25 correct? And, therefore, I would move the resolution. 127 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The resolution doesn't 2 have names filled in on it. So, 1A would be Grantworks. Is 3 that correct? 4 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah -- well, yeah. 6 1A, B, and C. 7 MR. HARTZELL: Actually, 1B -- you can 8 actually strike 1B. That was put in in case you did not 9 receive your Colonia Planning Grant we applied for in March. 10 Since you did receive that grant, 1B may be stricken from 11 the resolution. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1B is out, okay. 14 MR. HARTZELL: 1C would be the engineering 15 services, which would be Groves, if you want to go with 16 Groves. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- is there a 18 motion? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I made a 20 motion. When I say Groves or Grantworks -- 21 MR. HARTZELL: 1C would be Groves; that's the 22 engineering -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the engineer. 24 That's the engineering. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Administrative 128 1 would be -- would go to Grantworks? 2 MR. HARTZELL: That's correct. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the engineering, 4 too. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's fine. That's 6 the sense of my motion. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion and a 8 second to approve the resolution as presented, and insert 9 under Section 1A the name "Grantworks" to be awarded the 10 contract providing the T.C.D.P. project-related 11 administrative services, and insert in Section 1C "Groves 12 and Associates" be awarded the contract to provide T.C.D.P. 13 project-related professional engineering services. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And also, that motion 15 includes striking Section 1B and making what is now 1C 16 Section 1B. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct, and authorize 20 the County Judge to sign same, I presume? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Authorize County 22 Judge to sign same. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any further discussion? 24 All in favor, say aye. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 129 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Opposed? 2 (No response.) 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 4 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you. I'll leave these 5 with your clerk. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. And if you 7 would also -- the information you and I talked about with 8 respect to the City of Kerrville? 9 MR. HARTZELL: It's on your chair. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On my desk. 11 MR. HARTZELL: Thank you. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Larry, can we get through 13 O.S.S.F. rules in 15 or 20 minutes? 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Far as I'm concerned, 15 we can get through it in about 30 seconds. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I agree. I 17 second. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's go to 2.24, 19 consider and discuss approving the proposed O.S.S.F. Rules 20 and Regulations and setting public hearing for same. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. If you'll 22 recall, back on the 26th of June, we were presented a draft 23 which had essentially been done by U.G.R.A. for -- and 24 incorporated some rule changes that were required by 25 T.N.R.C.C. as a result of legislation that was passed in the 130 1 last session of the Legislature. It also had some -- some 2 new rules that were discussed at some length in the -- in 3 the public -- or the workshop that we had. And, as a result 4 of that, when we looked at it, I felt -- and I think it was 5 the agreement, general agreement, that we needed to take 6 another swing at it and sort of try to really get a set of 7 rules that we, the Court, could get behind, because they're 8 our rules. They're our rules; they're not U.G.R.A.'s rules. 9 And U.G.R.A. agreed with that, and so I took that last 10 draft, or the draft that they had submitted to us. We have 11 now iterated that five or six times between U.G.R.A. and 12 myself, and I've given several copies of interim versions of 13 that draft to the Commissioners. 14 The one that's in your package today is -- is 15 one that I think that I'm very comfortable with. It 16 addresses all of the issues that we discussed in the public 17 workshop. It also, I think, addresses several issues that 18 were of concern to -- to U.G.R.A. that were not in my first 19 draft, and I think some of the areas have really been 20 strengthened. I would propose that we -- that we approve 21 this version of the draft, with everybody understanding, of 22 course, that we -- you know, to do that, we have to set a 23 public hearing where this can all be hashed out again. And, 24 if we want to make changes on the basis of the public 25 hearing, or changes on further review of the draft, we can 131 1 do that at that time, before it gets adopted by the Court as 2 the new rules. So, I would make the motion that we accept 3 and approve this draft of the O.S.S.F. rules and set a 4 public hearing for August the 14th, which is our next 5 meeting, at 10 o'clock. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion and 8 second to approve the draft as submitted for the appropriate 9 O.S.S.F. Rules and Regulations and set public hearing for 10 same. What was the date? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: August 14th is our 12 next meeting, I believe. Is that -- somebody verify that 13 for me. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I can verify 15 it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maggie? 17 MS. BARBEE: Yes. Does it give us enough time 18 to advertise it more than once? If -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's three weeks 20 from now. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: August 14th is 22 correct. 23 MS. BARBEE: As long as it doesn't have to be 24 advertised more than once. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it's just a 132 1 standard public hearing. 2 MS. BARBEE: Standard, okay. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll set the public 4 hearing August 14th. At 10 a.m.? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a comment and 7 a question. First of all, I want to thank Commissioner 8 Griffin for taking the time to draft and redraft and redraft 9 and redraft these rules to get them to the point that we are 10 today. I think you've done an excellent job, Larry, and I 11 commend you for doing that -- taking it on to do that. 12 By moving forward today, without tinkering with it or 13 fine-tuning, I just want to make sure I am not precluding an 14 effort to discuss a couple things in here that I think are 15 important for some future discussion. Somebody want to 16 confirm my -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Absolutely. I mean, 18 we can rework this draft in any way. It now becomes a 19 matter of public record for the public hearing. And, 20 obviously, any input from any of the Commissioners, we'll be 21 very anxious to hear. Some I've already received and have 22 been incorporated, but -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. Okay. Just -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We'll keep on working 25 it right up until the moment we adopt it, which would be 133 1 after the public hearing. You have to -- if it's in shape 2 to approve, then we can approve it after our public hearing. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I do have some 4 questions about 25 -- I have some concerns about the 25-acre 5 exception, but I think I can defer that to when we get into 6 the public hearing to make any comments. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. All right. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's time to move it 9 along. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a motion -- 11 motion from Commissioner Griffin, second by Commissioner 12 Baldwin, to approve the proposed O.S.S.F. Rules and 13 Regulations and set a public hearing for August 14th at 14 10 a.m. 15 MS. BARBEE: It's a draft. You have to 16 indicate it's a draft. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Approve the draft. 18 MS. BARBEE: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. Any further 20 discussion? All in favor, say aye. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 23 (No response.) 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. Item 2.25, 25 consider and discuss appointing David A. Ballard of Hunt as 134 1 Kerr County Representative to 911 Board to replace David 2 Walker. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. As you'll notice 4 in your package, Dave Walker, who had -- was only appointed 5 a short time ago, had a change in his business arrangements. 6 He has now moved out of the state and is no longer available 7 to serve. And I have asked Dave Ballard of Hunt. He's a 8 former NASA engineer, very technically qualified for the 911 9 Board duties, and he is an enthusiastic volunteer. And I 10 would move that -- that we -- that we appoint Dave -- first, 11 accept Dave Walker -- David Walker's resignation from the 12 board, and appoint Dave Ballard of Hunt as his replacement. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion and a second to 15 accept the resignation of David Walker and appoint Dave 16 Ballard of Hunt to be his replacement on the 911 Board. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does Mr. Ballard have 18 a cabin in Idaho? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, he doesn't have a 20 cabin in Idaho. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This does bring up a 22 point. Anyone we want to get rid of, just appoint them to 23 this Board; they quickly leave. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there a message 25 there? 135 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They leave the county. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, they leave the 3 county quickly. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you like to 5 speak to that, T.? 6 MR. SANDLIN: No. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I do have some 8 information for Mr. Sandlin. I've got Mr. Ballard's address 9 and phone number, and I'd like to give that to you. And he 10 has asked specifically if he can get a copy of the 11 guidelines and the charter of the board so he -- he's one of 12 those kind of guys that likes to know what he's getting 13 into, and he'll hit the ground running for you. I'll give 14 this to you. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any further discussion? 16 All in favor, say aye. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any opposed? 19 (No response.) 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: None. 2.26 is consider 21 and discuss measures to provide nonpotable water to Kerr 22 County residents whose private wells have gone dry. This 23 was an item that the Judge and myself discussed last week 24 and put it on the agenda at this point to get it on the 25 table, more than anything else, for the County to address, 136 1 if this drought does continue -- looks like it probably 2 will, unfortunately -- what the County should do to assist 3 county residents that are having water problems to get 4 water. In the past, while I've been on the Court -- I think 5 it was three years ago. We had a similar drought three 6 summers ago, I think, and we provided water at the Ag Barn 7 to people. It was set up to use the Ag Barn through -- I 8 think Road and Bridge was kind of the contact people at that 9 time to help with that. I don't think anyone actually took 10 us up on getting water out there, but we had it set up to do 11 that on a court order to allow that to happen. There are 12 two wells that the County has access to. One is the well 13 there on the Ag Barn property, which I believe has been 14 turned over into a monitoring well at U.G.R.A. -- or I guess 15 Headwaters' request. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was offered. Has 17 it ever been -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they've accepted 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We approved it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've approved it, 22 they've accepted it. I'm not sure the equipment has been 23 installed; that may or may not affect the use of that well. 24 Some monitoring wells they prefer not to ever get pumped, 25 and -- so they can monitor, and some of them they want to 137 1 get pumped. I'm not sure what the status of that is. But, 2 in either event, the other well, which is not owned 3 technically by the County, I guess -- or I guess maybe it is 4 owned -- it was drilled by Little League across the highway, 5 the irrigation well, and that is also a Trinity well. But 6 the water is not certified for drinking, but that well could 7 be easily set up to supply water needed there. Those are 8 the two issues there. And there may be some other things 9 that we need to look at to provide. And, like I say, the 10 Judge and I talked about it, put it on the agenda to get it 11 before the Court as to how we want to -- what direction the 12 Court wants to go in the future. I don't know that we're 13 set up to do anything definitely today, but rather a 14 direction, probably for myself, since the Judge isn't here. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, I would 16 certainly recommend that we -- we find some source to do 17 what you did last time. I remember when that occurred, and 18 that makes a lot of sense. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would we have to 20 do just to make it ready? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd have to look over at 22 the hookup at -- there's hydrants over there, and I think 23 Road and Bridge probably has one of those -- the things that 24 the water goes up in the air, drops in the tank. You see 25 it -- T., what's that called? I see you nodding. 138 1 MR. SANDLIN: Are you talking about the fill 2 spouts? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, fill spout. And, I 4 mean, I would think that that would be for a tanker, that 5 would be how would you do it. I mean, just get a fill 6 spout, and I don't know if Road and Bridge has one or not. 7 If not, we could maybe -- 8 MR. JOHNSTON: They probably do for the water 9 trucks. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And that's -- you 11 know, and for bottled water, you just take it out of a 12 hydrant, the hose and hydrant. I think the biggest concern 13 I would have would be that we have some sort of a disclaimer 14 given to anyone that this is nonpotable water. I mean, this 15 is not meant to be -- if it's going to be used in the house, 16 it needs to be, you know, treated however you treat water to 17 get it up to drinking standards. And the other issue, I 18 mean, we decide is who would be responsible for -- in the 19 county to be there to do it, physically give the water out? 20 And we if we were to do it, we could set, I think, times so 21 we don't have -- we don't have the manpower to have people 22 at any time -- maybe one hour a day, to have it accessible. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it not be 24 easier to use the one on the Ag Barn grounds, as opposed to 25 Little League, just for purposes of manpower and 139 1 availability? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, that would be the 3 number one choice, if that well is -- still can be used 4 without any problem. Frank? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: Could Ag Barn people actually 6 do that filling, as opposed to Road and Bridge? Leonard had 7 to leave, but he said last year we did it, and it's -- if 8 it's not just a certain time every day, it's disruptive 9 to -- his crews have to stop, come in and do that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if we could, we 11 could probably get Road and Bridge assistance in setting up 12 the spout, and -- just because -- I mean, and then -- 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Just the day-to-day -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glenn just walked in to 15 volunteer for that. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Glenn. We 17 appreciate it. Appreciate your help. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Come on up here. We 19 just got a plan in place for you. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Providing the water -- 21 we're looking at -- under Agenda Item 2.26, on how to 22 provide nonpotable water to residents whose wells have gone 23 dry. And the last -- I think two years ago -- two or three 24 years ago, we did something similar with the well out at the 25 Ag Barn property. We were discussing as to, procedurally, 140 1 how to do that. And, the desire of the Court is to have an 2 outlet where people can get water in an emergency situation, 3 but more the logistics of doing that. Maybe what we need to 4 do is ask -- it's not fair to ask Glenn to respond right 5 now. At our next meeting, if we could have -- you know, you 6 could help draft a plan on how to get water -- deliver water 7 from that well to the public, I guess. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In the event of an 9 emergency. 10 MR. HOLEKAMP: The well would have to be 11 reactivated, 'cause we're on city water. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But the well's still 13 there? 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Isn't it a monitor 16 well? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's a monitor well. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we'd need to 19 coordinate that with, probably, Headwaters. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Headwaters. And if not, 21 it would be -- probably use the Little League's well, which 22 is set up right now, you just flick the switch, you turn on 23 the spigot and that water comes out. 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. We're currently on the 25 city water there, so -- 141 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This would be to 2 provide nonpotable water in an emergency to people whose 3 wells have gone dry, if the drought continues. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there is a meter 5 installed on the Little League's well, so we could keep 6 track of the water we're using, as well. A very expensive 7 meter, I might add. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you were thinking 9 about how to do that and the well was off-premises, as it 10 would be for you across the road, you'd have to think about 11 when people -- when that water could be made available and 12 what kind of manpower you could devote to monitoring this or 13 helping them load tankers or trucks. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Last time, it was 15 about two hours a day. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two hours a day. And -- 17 you know, to have someone there. Glenn, I can meet with 18 y'all -- I'll get with you and we can go over there and look 19 at the Little League's well, and maybe get hold and check on 20 that well at the Ag Department, see what has to be done to 21 make it so this can happen. But I just think it's something 22 we need to be prepared for. And that, like I said, last 23 time I don't know that we had a great usage, but if you even 24 have one person whose well goes dry, it's a pretty important 25 issue to those people. There are really no other options to 142 1 get water. I know that the City will not allow water to 2 be -- last time this happened, the City would not allow 3 their city water to be sold to people outside the city. And 4 I believe last time, also, it was very difficult -- we could 5 not work out an arrangement to get water out of the waste 6 treatment plant, as well. Only option we could come up with 7 was to get well from a county well -- or water from a county 8 well. But, are there any -- on that item, I'll get with 9 you. Is there anything else that we should be looking at? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We ought to make it 11 available as quickly as we can. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: T.? 13 MR. SANDLIN: I might suggest -- and I don't 14 speak on their behalf; I'm just -- a lot of volunteer fire 15 departments are having -- they've received numerous requests 16 over the last few weeks to deliver nonpotable water to 17 county residents for different reasons. It might be you 18 could speak with them. They do it as a community service. 19 They can be the transporting -- the delivery -- I'm not 20 speaking on their behalf; it just might be an avenue to 21 check on, 'cause they are getting a lot of requests for 22 various places and times for nonpotable water. They don't 23 have an abundance of resources, either. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, maybe, if nothing 25 else, a place for them to get water. Because since, I mean, 143 1 all the pumping out of the river has been halted, it's hard 2 to find wells, you know, to get access to for public -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. I'm putting 5 that back at our first meeting in August, and I believe it 6 should be. Item 2.27 is consider and discuss adjustment by 7 amendment or transfer to line items 10-475-103, 10-475-201, 8 and 10-475-203. And I see Mr. Motley in the room. David? 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 MR. MOTLEY: Talking about my item? Is that 11 what we're talking about? I'm not certain that I can 12 explain this very clearly, but I'm going to try. Back when 13 we had our last budget meeting for this budget year, at that 14 point I thought there were going to be other budget hearings 15 after that, but I was wrong. That budget hearing occurred 16 on August 30th of '99, I believe, and at that time, at the 17 close of the meeting, I had asked for an Assistant County 18 Attorney and I'd asked for a package of $35,000 plus some 19 benefits. 20 But, in any event -- and I said, well, since 21 he's not going to be here a full year, you know, he takes 22 his bar exam, and why don't we ask for a half year? Six 23 months. And the figure was $21,000-something, and everybody 24 seemed to agree with that. And Judge Henneke said that he 25 had also taken the February bar in 1980 and was not licensed 144 1 until June, and did not feel that Rex would be licensed 2 until June. But, what I'd asked for was the $16,250, which 3 was a half year for Rex. He said, "Well, he won't be 4 licensed till June anyway," and I said, well -- and so he 5 proposed $14,000 for salary. And, I said, "Well, that's 6 going to leave us $400-something short." And I asked him 7 about it, and he said, "Well, you're going to have to find 8 that money somewhere else." 9 Well, as it did turn out, Rex did receive 10 word of his bar exam results successfully in late April and 11 was sworn in on May 1st. So, instead of starting on June 1 12 and being $400 short, he started on May 1 and we were 13 4,000 -- I have it right here -- $4,010.41, approximately, 14 short in that line item. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 16 MR. MOTLEY: $4,010.41. The -- the $14,000 17 that was given, it's my understanding, was given for salary. 18 No FICA on top of that. If -- if we get Rex's other two 19 months -- that is, his pay, with FICA -- appropriate FICA on 20 it, I think we're going to come pretty close to coming out 21 on our pay on our line item this year. We've had a change 22 in personnel, and Rex left at the end of May, but Ilse 23 stayed on to help train the two new assistants, so we had 24 some overlap. We had a third attorney there for a month 25 and, as a result, you know, we are going to be coming up 145 1 somewhat short. 2 Now, I also remind you that we really weren't 3 supposed to be doing this civil work until Rex came on board 4 June 1st, but during that time, we drafted probably 8 to 10 5 contracts, one of which was a State Hospital Interlocal 6 Agreement, which was quite an undertaking. We also handled 7 certain civil suits, largely by referral out to insurance 8 and other law firms, but it's what we did before. In any 9 event, we did that work -- I personally did the work, even 10 though we really were not, in my estimation, supposed to 11 start until we got our third attorney -- that was the pretty 12 clear intent -- just as an effort to get along. But what 13 we're looking at now is a pretty substantial shortage. I 14 think a lot of it -- the bulk of the shortage is due to the 15 fact that Judge Henneke incorrectly assumed the start date 16 for -- for Rex Emerson. And I talked to him about it, and 17 he said there is no general county fund; you know, that 18 you'd have to have an emergency and take it out of County 19 Surplus. But I've been doing a little checking, and I've 20 found that line item for Professional Services, and it's 21 number -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: David, before you get 23 off that far into the thing, I've got a question. 24 MR. MOTLEY: Sure. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You had -- you had 146 1 requested 21,000-some-odd dollars to -- when you were in 2 before? Your request was $21,000? 3 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I can give you to the 4 penny. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'd like that. 6 MR. MOTLEY: What I asked for at that 7 August 30th hearing -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: August 30? 9 MR. MOTLEY: Yes, sir. August 30 of '99 was 10 the final budget hearing. This would, I thought, have taken 11 Rex through the year. I have it right here. I also need to 12 be mentioning something while I'm looking for that. That 13 although Rex was not licensed as an attorney, he did -- 14 after he finished the bar exam, he did work in our office 15 every day and function as an attorney. He was an attorney, 16 had a third bar card, was fully authorized to practice, and 17 without him we would not have been able to -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: David, what budget 19 line item was he being paid out of? 20 MR. MOTLEY: He was being paid out of line 21 item -- just a moment here. It's the first one I wrote on 22 the agenda. Do you have -- 23 MS. NEMEC: Its 103, Assistant -- Assistant 24 Salaries. 25 MR. MOTLEY: In any event, it was 21,000 -- 147 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 250? 2 MR. MOTLEY: I think you're right on the mark 3 there. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Let's just 5 pretend. 6 MR. MOTLEY: We got 14 even on it, so -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what did -- 8 what did this Court approve? 9 MR. MOTLEY: 14 even. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $14,000? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That was in the 12 budget. 13 MR. MOTLEY: $14,000, right. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 MR. MOTLEY: And that was not enough to pay 16 Rex. Even had he started June 1, we would have been short 17 400-and-something dollars. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not interested in 19 Judge Henneke's theories -- 20 MR. MOTLEY: No, no, no. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- of when you become 22 lawyers or when he -- I couldn't care less about that. 23 MR. MOTLEY: I understand. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I'm interested in 25 is how much we budgeted, how much we're short, and how did 148 1 we get short if we budgeted? 2 MR. MOTLEY: We budgeted $14,000, which was 3 supposed to be a third of a year. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Four months. 5 MR. MOTLEY: Four months instead of -- six 6 months is what I asked for. And he said there's no way that 7 he will need six months of salary because he will not be 8 licensed until June. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, when he -- when 10 he got his license -- 11 MR. MOTLEY: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- did we get a budget 13 amendment request at that time? 14 MR. MOTLEY: Well, that's pretty much what 15 I'm doing now. It's 21 -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Wait a minute. Wait a 17 minute, David. That's the way the budget system works, is 18 that you -- you have a budgeted amount, and then when a 19 requirement comes up that exceeds what's in the budget, 20 before the fact, the department head or elected official 21 comes to the Court and asks for a budget amendment to add 22 money -- or to either move money, take it out of Surplus, or 23 do something, but not after the fact. The system doesn't 24 work that way. 25 MR. MOTLEY: Well, let me explain that. I 149 1 talked to the Judge about that, and he said there were no 2 monies available for that. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, you paid him 4 anyway -- 5 MR. MOTLEY: No. We did -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- is what you're 7 saying? 8 MR. MOTLEY: There was money in the budget. 9 The money -- there was plenty of money in there. The 10 shortfall will come at the end of the year. There was money 11 in the budget; it was a lawful expenditure. I told him that 12 I would take care of it. I told him my intention was to 13 come to Commissioners Court and address the issue and see if 14 I could get the monies that way. We asked for $21,612.50, 15 and we got $14,000. So, what I'm coming to you today is to 16 ask you to retroactively give me what I had asked for. I 17 found a place I think it could come from without much 18 trouble, and it seems an appropriate place. It's Item 19 10-401-486, which is Professional Services for Commissioners 20 Court. I've looked at it, and even at the rate it was being 21 expended, there are $17,129 -- $17,129.76 left in that 22 account through the first half of June, and the expenses 23 seem to have trailed off to some degree now that some of the 24 litigation is over with. We ought to be able to get that 25 difference between what I asked for and what we received, 150 1 and still leave about $10,000 in that account. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you that 3 that would be the place to get it, but let's get back to 4 Larry's question. And -- and, really, my question is the 5 same question. If this Court approved $14,000, how did -- 6 how did we get into this thing now of actually owing money? 7 I don't understand that. 8 MR. MOTLEY: I wouldn't say it was owing 9 money. I went to the Judge and I said, "Judge, we're going 10 to be short on that item." And he said, "Well, you should 11 have asked for it at budget time." And I said, "I did ask 12 for it at budget time." 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you spent it 14 anyway? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can't -- 16 MR. MOTLEY: No, we have not spent it. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can't obligate it 18 without it being budgeted. 19 MR. MOTLEY: We have not spent it. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I know. I didn't 21 say -- 22 MS. NEMEC: May I answer that? 'Cause that 23 kind of involves my office, too. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 25 MS. NEMEC: I can maybe answer that. At the 151 1 time that Rex was hired, we knew that he was being hired a 2 month earlier than what the $14,000 was going to take care 3 of, and so at that point I got with David and I said, you 4 know, the $14,000 was given for so many months only. That's 5 what the Judge said. So, therefore, we can't pay him for 6 May. So, David assured me at that time that I would be 7 getting the money; if there was a shortfall, he would give 8 me the money from the Hot Check Fund. And, all along he has 9 been telling me, don't worry, you know, you will be taken 10 care of. You're not going to have a shortfall at the end of 11 the year. 12 He and the Judge, in the meantime, had been 13 talking about it, and were in the process of getting 14 everything together to present to the Court. So, that's how 15 that happened. And, on top of that, one of the reasons that 16 he is short, which really wouldn't have anything to do 17 with -- with his decision, is that when the $14,000 was 18 given to him for his assistant, there wasn't any FICA or 19 retirement budgeted in that amount. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that part of it -- 21 that can be taken care of. That should be taken care of; I 22 don't have a problem with that. I guess the problem I have, 23 though, is basically -- and I -- and it's not your fault, 24 because I don't see how you can tell another elected 25 official you can't hire somebody. I mean, it's kind of -- 152 1 but we need to figure out a way to cut our procedures where 2 elected officials or anyone else cannot hire people when 3 there's no money budgeted. 4 MR. MOTLEY: The money is budgeted for it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not for the year. Are 6 you going to say that he's not going to get paid for the 7 month of September? 8 MR. MOTLEY: No. No, nobody is not going to 9 be paid. The pay will happen. What I'm trying to say is I 10 came in with what I thought was a fair request. And maybe, 11 based on an error, I didn't get the money I asked for, and 12 I'm now trying to come back and see if that money can be put 13 in here to my account. I've -- I do probably -- I've done 14 probably less than five budget amendments in the 10 years 15 I've had this office. I very seldom do transfers. I came 16 and asked for what I needed. If this line item that I'm 17 talking about, the Professional Services, continues to be 18 spent through the year at the average rate of which it's 19 been spent all year, there will be $13,924.42 left in that 20 line item, even after the average expenditures have been 21 taken out. What I'm asking from you is the difference 22 between $21,612.50 and $14,000, which is $7,612.50. If I 23 had gotten what I asked for to begin with, I wouldn't have 24 been put in this situation. And I was told that this is 25 when he'll start to work. And I said, "Well, you know, he 153 1 is saying April or May." And he said, "Well, I don't think 2 so." 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you would, David, 4 address the comment, please -- your perspective on what the 5 County Treasurer just gave us, that if this situation 6 occurred in which an attorney was authorized to practice 7 earlier than was anticipated, thereby going outside the 8 parameters of the budgeted amount, which was $14,000, that 9 the balance would be made up from the Hot Check Fund. Do 10 you recollect the same as the County Treasurer recollects? 11 MR. MOTLEY: Oh, I told Barbara that when the 12 end of the year came, that that budget -- that those line 13 items would be taken care of. But I don't think it's right 14 for the Hot Check Fund to be paying for what is salary for a 15 man who has been doing meaningful work for the County for -- 16 since the end of February. I mean, he was doing work, he 17 was trying cases, he was preparing cases. He was there 18 every day serving a valuable function. He's an employee in 19 the office. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you're 21 claiming -- your position is you obviously believed it was 22 appropriate at that time to assure the County Treasurer that 23 she would be made whole in the payroll -- 24 MR. MOTLEY: I'm not claiming -- my 25 position -- 154 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- from the Hot Check 2 Fund. 3 MS. NEMEC: Let me add something to that. He 4 did say he was going to come to the Court to ask for the 5 money, because he felt it was the County's responsibility, 6 but then he said, "But I assure you, if they do not give it 7 to me, you're not going to be in a shortfall." 8 MR. MOTLEY: Not -- that's not going to 9 happen; it's never happened and it wouldn't happen. 10 MS. NEMEC: So, based on that, I paid his 11 employees. I said, as long as I have your word for it -- 12 he's given me his word before, and so that's why his 13 employees continued to get paid, because I knew that if the 14 Court said no to him, which was his first way of going, that 15 then he would make it up. But he did make the comment he 16 was going to come to you first, because it was -- they were 17 working for the County and -- and that's where he felt the 18 money should come from. I correct my last statement. 19 MR. MOTLEY: My option as -- to embrace the 20 comments being made today, is to say, well, y'all come to 21 work for us, but work three months for free, and then when 22 we get enough money, we'll pay from that point till the end 23 of the fiscal year, and that's not going to work. So, all 24 I'm saying is that I'd ask for the $21,000 -- whatever it 25 was, $21,250. I got $14,000, and that's -- that's not 155 1 enough to pay the -- 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Were you aware that -- 3 that the request had been cut to $14,000 when it went into 4 the budget? 5 MR. MOTLEY: Absolutely. And I spoke to Fred 6 about that. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Then it wasn't an 8 oversight. 9 MR. MOTLEY: No, it -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If you thought the 11 money was there but the money was not in the budget -- 12 MR. MOTLEY: It was based on incorrect 13 information, which I think the information was there to 14 begin with. I told him what I would need. I don't make a 15 habit of coming in here and asking for more than I need. I 16 felt like I was going to need that amount of money, and 17 didn't get it. And, you know, when, in fact, the man 18 started to work early, the assumptions behind the $14,000 19 were not valid. They were -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If you had come to the 21 Court then, though, David -- if you had come to the Court -- 22 MR. MOTLEY: When? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The day you hired him, 24 on May the 1st, and said, "I'm going to have a shortfall; I 25 got to hire him on the 1st of May, and I'm going to have a 156 1 shortfall at the end of the month -- or at the end of the 2 year," that's different than coming up at a point where 3 we're either squeezed to where -- 4 MR. MOTLEY: No, no. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- we can't do 6 anything except fulfill the request, or somebody goes 7 unpaid, or you have to pay him out of the Hot Check Fund. 8 We could have avoided this. 9 MR. MOTLEY: I don't see -- no -- well, I 10 don't see what difference it makes to come then or come now. 11 You can start paying the salary out of that line item early 12 and run out afterwards, or have no money at the first. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me -- let me tell 14 you where I'm coming from on this, and it has nothing to 15 do -- you're right. As long as the money's in the budget, 16 you pay him till it runs out. However, if we -- if we deal 17 with all of the department heads -- we deal with County 18 government, this Court included, by saying we're going to 19 have a budgeted amount -- oh, but by the way, if you start 20 spending and you find out you don't have enough at the end 21 of the year, we'll cover it anyway, then you've got no 22 budget discipline. 23 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I hear you, but as I said 24 to you, I'm not a person to come in here and willy-nilly ask 25 for these amendments. And this is -- this is a legitimate 157 1 thing based on an oversight. It's as legitimate as other 2 amendments that I've seen go through Court recently. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't -- the only 4 objection I have is I don't think it's an oversight. I 5 think you intentionally did it, and that's -- 6 MR. MOTLEY: I did it? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, because you 8 intentionally -- intentionally hired someone knowing there 9 wasn't enough money in the budget. 10 MR. MOTLEY: Well, what can we do if we -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You -- before you hire 12 the person, before they start working, you say to 13 Commissioners Court, "Hey, Rex got approved -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You've got a choice. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, he got his -- 16 passed the bar earlier, and you should have have come to us. 17 And you're not the only one. You're probably getting beat 18 up on it for a lot of other elected officials and department 19 heads who do the same thing. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm wondering if 21 there's not another side to this equation as well, and I'd 22 like to ask David if he'd address this aspect of it. 23 Without getting into names, 'cause that's not important, 24 there are two new attorneys on staff. 25 MR. MOTLEY: That's correct. 158 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is one who has 2 left staff and one who is anticipated to leave staff at a 3 date I'm not sure the Court knows. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's gone. 5 MR. MOTLEY: She's left, but she has vacation 6 through the end of this month. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which prompts me to 8 ask, are we faced -- are we going to be faced with another 9 budget amendment -- 10 MR. MOTLEY: No. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- because of two 12 coming on -- 13 MR. MOTLEY: No. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and one still 15 there that has not left? Or are we still paying for -- 16 MR. MOTLEY: No, not at all. What I'm trying 17 to do is straighten out the budget shortfall. And the fact 18 that Ilse had to stay an extra month to train the new 19 people, I understand that's not budgeted for. I will pay 20 that out of the Hot Check Fund; I have no problem with that. 21 But, what we are doing, we are not paying people, you know, 22 for coming in and doing specific work for the County. And 23 this is due -- I could have come in early -- I hear what 24 you're saying, Larry. I could have come in early and done 25 that. But, as I said, I went and talked to the Judge. The 159 1 Judge said there were no funds available for that, because 2 we have no general fund, and all we can do -- we would have 3 to take it out of Surplus Funds, and I don't think this is 4 an emergency. And that's what he told me. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I know -- and on 6 that, but then you took it upon yourself. Your option at 7 that point should have been -- 8 MR. MOTLEY: Fire the guy? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. You take it to the 10 Commissioners Court, get the Court to decide. The Judge 11 doesn't have the authority to make that decision. 12 MR. MOTLEY: I hear you. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know. 14 MR. MOTLEY: Right, and I hear what you're 15 saying. But, as I said, I kind of had to assemble some 16 figures, and then we kind of had a change in circumstances 17 come May, when Rex and Ilse both, you know, told me they 18 were going to be leaving, so I needed to kind of wait till 19 some of this settled down a little bit before I was able to 20 really make this determination. And, there's nothing in any 21 way trying to be deceptive about this. All I'm trying to do 22 is ask for what I asked for before, and I can't see -- the 23 whole Court was in favor of doing that. As best as I 24 understand it, they said, "Oh, yeah, that's a pretty good 25 idea; let's do that." And then Fred says, "There's no way 160 1 he'll be licensed until June. We're cutting it to 14 2 grand." 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not arguing that. 4 The whole issue is, we spent a great deal of time on this 5 Court working on the budgets to do all the departments. 6 When we have people -- whether it's you or any other elected 7 official or department head -- come in here and not follow 8 that budget, it really aggravates us. That's the bottom 9 line. We're trying to get -- it's happened in other 10 departments, and we're at the point where we're about to 11 say, no more. And if y'all don't start following the 12 budgets or coming to us if there's a problem before you 13 spend the money -- 14 MR. MOTLEY: Well, with all due respect, I 15 don't believe that I'm not following the budget. Let me 16 explain again. I've told Barbara that those people were 17 hired; they were needed on the job to get the job done. I 18 told her that I would go to the Commissioners Court and 19 square this matter up, but I gave her my personal assurance 20 that it would not end up being a -- some kind of a shortfall 21 in her budget, and I'm not going to do that. But I think 22 it's fair that the Commissioners Court pay for the work that 23 was done. I -- I can't see -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You don't think it's -- 25 and you think it's fair to go and hire someone before you 161 1 come to us to get permission to put them on staff? 2 MR. MOTLEY: I don't -- I'm not supposed to 3 come get permission to -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's not budgeted for 5 the whole year, yes, you are. 6 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I'm saying that -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or take it out of your 8 own fund that you have full discretion of. 9 MR. MOTLEY: I hear, again, what you're 10 saying. But, as I said, there was -- I can't remember; it 11 was very recently, there was some people in the Sheriff's 12 Office where there were some oversights on some things, and 13 I heard the Commissioners -- "Oh, that was just a mistake, 14 an oversight," and willingly paid that fund. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This isn't a mistake. 16 MR. MOTLEY: Well, it is a budget figure that 17 is based on an incorrect premise, so what is that? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but I think the 19 difference is if you don't budget it, it's like a mistake. 20 The FICA and retirement not being put on the $14,000, to me, 21 that's a budget mistake. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct or incorrect, 23 you accepted it. Whether the premise -- 24 MR. MOTLEY: What are my options, really? 25 What are my options? 162 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You might fight like 2 a dog to get the over $7,000, I guess, on the basis that the 3 assumption may not have -- 4 MR. MOTLEY: But we didn't know when he was 5 coming to work; we couldn't do anything till we knew. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The bottom line is, I 7 mean, I -- you know, if you would have come to us at the 8 time, I think I would have voted for giving you the 9 amendment you requested, you know. 10 MR. MOTLEY: I couldn't come to you at the 11 time. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why? 13 MR. MOTLEY: What time are you referring to 14 when you say "come to you at the time"? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: May the 1st, when you 16 hired Rex. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As soon as he passed the 18 bar, he was available. 19 MR. MOTLEY: Because within two to three 20 weeks in May, then I found out Rex and Ilse were leaving, so 21 then what am I going to come tell you I need in the way of 22 salaries? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He's going to go on 24 the payroll May 1st. You knew that there was a month or two 25 shortfall. 163 1 MR. MOTLEY: But I had also -- I had also 2 told Barbara in advance, again, that that item would not be 3 left short at the end of the year. I told her that that 4 would be made right. But I think it's the Commissioners' 5 responsibility to make those adjustments for legitimate 6 County employees doing legitimate County work, instead of 7 for me to pay it out of the Hot Check Fund. I don't think 8 that's fair. These people are doing work for the County, 9 and I -- I can't understand how, you know, that can be fair. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not arguing with 11 that. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm not either. And 13 everything -- but the -- but the Hot Check Fund monies also 14 go to County purposes, as well. 15 MR. MOTLEY: They go for -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Any operation that you 17 want to. 18 MR. MOTLEY: Well, not precisely, but -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Close. 20 MR. MOTLEY: Yes. But, I -- again, and -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So if -- that sounds 22 like good discretionary funds. I mean, and that's what it 23 should be. 24 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I wish y'all would hear me 25 out on this other, because line item 10-401-486, 164 1 Professional Services, if it is expended at the rate it has 2 been expended on a monthly average, there will be $13,924.42 3 left in that account at the end of the year for professional 4 services. And as I mentioned earlier, we provided the civil 5 services that the Court requested well before June 1. We 6 drafted contracts, we've done -- represented the County in 7 litigation, we have negotiated the litigation. We have 8 done, in good faith, what we thought we were supposed to do 9 to get along. We didn't gripe and moan about the work that 10 we did earlier, although we could have easily said, no, 11 we'll do it on June 1 when the funding starts. We didn't do 12 that. We started work on this stuff early. So, even after 13 all the money's been paid out at the average rate, there's 14 $13,900 left in that account. We're asking for $7,100 -- 15 what is it? $7,612.50 to come out of that account, which 16 will still leave over half of that amount in the account. I 17 cannot see how that's unfair. I can't see how that's 18 trickery on the Court. I told Fred. I've told Barbara that 19 I would come in here and address the matter with the Court. 20 But, you know, we have to have people in the office. We've 21 got to have them there. We have to have them working, and 22 it's not like they're not working. They are doing 23 legitimate work for the County. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somehow -- one comment, 25 then I'll make a motion so we can get out of this; I think 165 1 we're going in circles. But, no one's arguing that we need 2 the work and that we've approved this. Our argument is that 3 you didn't come to us before he started early, when you 4 knew. 5 MR. MOTLEY: Why does that make a difference? 6 Just tell me. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Should Barbara -- 8 wait, no. Should Barbara be allowed, with our current 9 budget process, to go out and buy a new mainframe computer 10 because she wants to? 11 MR. MOTLEY: No. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. It's the same thing. 13 MR. MOTLEY: Well, the money was in the 14 budget for that line item. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not for the year, it 16 wasn't. 17 MR. MOTLEY: No, it wasn't, but we haven't 18 used a year yet. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you -- she can lease 20 it. She can go out and buy it under a lease-purchase and 21 not have enough money to pay the bottom part of the lease. 22 MR. MOTLEY: I understand what you're saying, 23 but we have not exhausted the fund yet. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You haven't exhausted it, 25 but you don't have enough money to make it through the year. 166 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You have obligations 2 to employees that exceed the amount of money in the budget 3 line item. 4 MR. MOTLEY: But it took us some time to 5 figure out what the employee situation was going to be. 6 This was something that took a while to figure out, how many 7 employees, what the pay would be. We didn't know how long 8 Ilse was going to hold off. We had lots of questions, and 9 now that I know that Ilse leaves at the end of the month, 10 I've come to the first Commissioners Court after that, which 11 is when I have some firm figures to present. I cannot see 12 how this is in any way unfair to the Court. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 14 we approve the transfer of $7,612 from Commissioners Court 15 Professional Services to line item -- to the County 16 Attorney's Assistant Salaries line item. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 18 MS. NEMEC: Could you make the motion that I 19 would give the figures on the $7,000 what goes into FICA and 20 retirement? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And out of that, the 22 County Treasurer will adjust appropriately, put the figures 23 in FICA, group insurance, and retirement, as needed. 24 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin 167 1 seconded that. Any further discussion? All in favor, say 2 aye. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Reluctantly. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: David, are those your 6 new attorneys sitting over there? 7 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you introduce 9 them, possibly, after all that? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They may not want to meet 11 us. 12 (Discussion off the record.) 13 MR. MOTLEY: In all honesty, I really try to 14 limit amendments and I really try to limit -- I thought 15 there might be a way that I could shift money around. I 16 don't come for amendments and I don't come for transfers. I 17 just thought this was not a fair situation. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just a parting shot. 19 If there is -- and this applies to every department; I'm not 20 directing this at you, David. As soon as any boss knows 21 that there is a budget problem, what the amount is 22 approximately, or just the fact that, "Hey, I don't have 23 enough in this line item; I don't know how much yet, but I 24 don't have enough. Get me out through the end of the year." 25 As soon as they know that, that's the time to come to Court. 168 1 MR. MOTLEY: I hear you. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not two months or 3 three months later. 4 MS. NEMEC: And, Commissioner, on that note, 5 whenever that has happened, I have told the elected 6 officials no, I can't put them on the payroll. You don't 7 have enough money, you have to go to Court. And, so, that's 8 usually the way it happens. In this case -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: With discretion. 10 MS. NEMEC: -- it was just the idea of the 11 Hot Check Fund. I knew I was going to be covered if 12 anything happened, and -- but you're right. But from now 13 on, I won't even let David do that. Okay? 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me make it -- let 15 me make just a statement here to the rest of the Court. 16 That, as a matter of policy, that maybe -- particularly with 17 payroll issues, because, you know, we're dealing with 18 people's lives, and they've got to get paid and eat, and 19 they -- and they get -- they come onto the payroll expecting 20 to get paid, is that -- that we will not -- I mean, we'll 21 take the heat off you and put it on us. That we will not 22 authorize anybody -- we will not let you authorize anybody 23 to get hired unless there is money in the budget to see them 24 through the year. I think that makes sense. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or a court order to that 169 1 effect. And, in case -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way it is 3 today. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I just wanted to -- 5 MS. NEMEC: And, like I said, that is the way 6 it is. It's just that when I talked to David, he had this 7 Hot Check Fund cushion that's been used before. And I 8 talked to the Judge. The Judge came and asked me what was 9 going on with it. 10 MR. MOTLEY: Let me mention one thing. How 11 could we come May 1? We would not have known about Rex's 12 leaving, we would not have known about Ilse's leaving, we 13 would not have known how long Ilse was going to stay on to 14 generously help train two new assistants. We wouldn't have 15 known who they were, what salary. We would have come to you 16 with a petty incomplete picture. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But we would have 18 covered their salaries, and then you may have given some 19 back, you know. You would give back whatever's left. 20 MR. MOTLEY: I understand. We were very 21 straight with the budget. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, let's move on. 23 MR. MOTLEY: Angela Collier and Travis Lucas, 24 they're the new assistants. They've been on board probably 25 a couple of weeks each, just got back from a week-long 170 1 course in Austin. Angela has some experience in the past in 2 family violence cases, which we do a lot of, and Travis is a 3 recent graduate of Baylor Law School, worked a bit in 4 Fredericksburg before coming over here. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Travis is a "Battling 6 Billy," for your information. 7 MR. MOTLEY: And he is -- he's interested in 8 helping the Commissioners Court. So -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also an Aggie. 10 MR. MOTLEY: He's an Aggie, that's right. 11 That's right, and Angela -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Angela is a graduate 13 of University of Texas, so -- 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: David, before you leave, 15 do we have an executive session need for today? 16 MR. MOTLEY: I don't believe so. That's what 17 it was before; I just didn't know, you know, if we felt like 18 some of these items were personal and personnel in nature, 19 and we could talk about them. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Travis, let me tell 21 you, the line is you got your education at A & M -- Travis, 22 the line is he got his education at A & M, but he got his 23 professional training at Baylor. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mr. Taylor, you got a 171 1 comment? 2 MR. TAYLOR: Question, please. Are you going to 3 have available this draft before the August 14th -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it will be -- how 5 soon can we have a draft? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's already -- 7 there's already a copy that will be in the Commissioners 8 Court -- not Commissioners Court, the County Clerk's office. 9 I assume immediately, right? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: By tomorrow. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll see that you get 12 a copy, Eddie. 13 MR. TAYLOR: I appreciate it. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Eddie. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I'll put a copy of 16 it on the web site. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're adjourned. 18 (Commissioners Court was adjourned at 12:35 p.m.) 19 - - - - - - - - - - 20 21 22 23 24 25 172 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 28th day of July, 2000. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25