1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, August 14, 2000 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 23 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 24 ABSENT: JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 2 1 I N D E X August 14, 2000 PAGE 2 1.1 Pay Bills 5 3 1.2 Budget Amendments 8 1.3 Late Bills 32 4 1.4 Read and Approve Minutes 32 1.5 Read and Accept Monthly Reports 33 5 2.1 Discuss going out for bid - 6 new vehicles for 6 Sheriff's Department 34 2.2 Discuss going out for bid on fuel 40 7 2.3 Discuss going out for bid - vehicle maintenance 45 8 2.4 Clarify Nash recommendation for JP Court Clerks 47 9 2.5 Approve purchase - 4 GPS systems for patrol cars 50 10 2.8 PUBLIC HEARING, Kerr County OSSF Rules 53 11 2.9 Adopt Kerr County OSSF Rules 80 12 2.10 Septic tank variance, Lot 4, Riverbend Estates 95 13 2.17 Resolution to submit grant request to T.C.D.P. 107 14 2.6 Approve road name changes in Precinct 4 113 15 2.7 Policy/procedure to evaluate status of roads 114 16 2.14 Establish "No-wake" zones on county lakes 120 17 2.15 County-wide fireworks ban during burn bans 130 2.16 Prohibiting use of fireworks on county dams 130 18 2.21 Plans for Phase 3B of Courthouse Renovation 144 19 2.12 Approve standard M. H. Interlocal Agreements 151 20 2.13 Provide non-potable water to citizens 152 21 2.18 Resolution in support of Solid Waste Grant 156 22 2.19 Contribute $5,000 per year to GBRA - maintenance 23 of rainfall & stream level monitoring system 157 24 2.20 Accept resignations, Veterans Land Board Committee & appoint new members 159 25 --- Adjourned 160 3 1 On Monday, August 14, 2000, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, and the 4 following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning, everyone. It's 7 9 o'clock on Monday, August the 14th, Year 2000. We will 8 call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court. If you'll all please stand and join me 10 in a word of prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance. 11 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you all. First item on 13 today's agenda is the Visitors' Input. Any citizen who 14 wishes to address the Court on an item which is not listed 15 on the regular agenda may do so at this time. Is there 16 anyone who would like to address the Court on an item not 17 listed on the regular agenda? Seeing none, we'll move to 18 the Commissioners' Comments. Let's start with Commissioner 19 Griffin. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just one. I'd like to 21 let everybody on the Court know that the Lake Ingram Estates 22 Road District bond election did pass by a vote of 11 to 4. 23 It requires a two-thirds or 66 percent vote, and it just 24 made it by 66.6 percent -- 66.67, to be precise. So, now 25 we'll figure out what to do with that. That will be my next 4 1 step. But -- but the bond issue did pass, and that will be 2 canvassed later on this week, as you know. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I have a 5 couple items. I want to remind everyone that school -- the 6 school doors open tomorrow here in Kerrville. That will put 7 a lot of new traffic on our streets early in the morning and 8 late afternoon, so just everybody be real, real careful 9 there. And over the weekend, I saw in the Kerrville Daily 10 Times of a meeting coming up on Thursday, August the 17th. 11 It's titled "Water Growth and Planning Issues Facing the 12 Hill Country." Our State representative, Harvey Hilderbran, 13 and our colleague, Larry Griffin, will be on the panel there 14 to talk about these very, very important issues, and I 15 think -- I think this is probably going to be one of the 16 better meetings of the year. It's Thursday, the 17th, 2000, 17 7 p.m, at Schreiner College at the new activity center. 18 That's all. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing right now, 21 Judge. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd like to remind everyone 23 that we have a meeting called for Wednesday morning at 24 9 o'clock, required to canvass the votes of the Lake Ingram 25 Road District election. Should be a very brief meeting. 5 1 I'll also take this opportunity to remind everyone that our 2 next meeting on August 28th is our regularly scheduled 3 evening meeting, and we will be commencing at 6:30 on August 4 the 28th. Everyone adjust your calendars accordingly. 5 Without any further ado, we'll move into the approval 6 agenda. We probably need to pay some bills. Tommy? Anyone 7 have any questions about the bills as presented? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, sir. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just some 11 clarification here, I think. On Page 1, the Commissioners 12 Court -- just to refresh in my mind on how we're -- how we 13 have decided to work with our attorneys. I see we have a 14 couple of bills, and every month we have a couple of bills 15 from Tommy Pollard. And several months ago we had 16 authorized the County Attorney's office to hire another 17 attorney to take over the civil work for the Commissioners 18 Court, et cetera. And, I can't remember exactly how we 19 worked that. I was under -- I was thinking that as soon as 20 we authorized the County Attorney to hire a new attorney 21 down there, that we would drop our outside attorney, but I 22 guess that's not the case. Are we -- are we -- is he 23 staying on to finish unfinished business? Or what did we 24 work out with him? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Essentially, that's correct. 6 1 What Tom Pollard is doing for us right now is -- is wrapping 2 up some things he's been working on, such as easements and 3 rights of ways that he's been working on for some time, and 4 also some projects that, again, he's been working on for 5 some time, and it's really not appropriate to throw the 6 County Attorney in in the middle of them. But, all the 7 civil work basically from now on should -- should and will 8 go down to the County Attorney's office. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I had asked that 10 question some time ago, and yes, indeed, that was the answer 11 I got; that there was no new work once we made that decision 12 several months ago, whenever that was, but -- but that there 13 would be some trail-off of activities until we get going. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then -- 15 bear with me for a second here. Over on Page 10, this has 16 been one of the struggles in my life. 630, Health 17 Department. We're still sending our $625 a month over to 18 the City for the First Responders expense, and for the last 19 month, month and a half or so, there has not been a First 20 Responders Director employed by the City for -- to be taking 21 this money. And it seems to me a bit foolish for us to send 22 county taxpayers' money over to the City when there's no one 23 there to receive it. And I know that the -- there is a 24 director forthcoming, but the -- I really would like to see 25 them get things in high gear and get this program off of 7 1 high center. Just a comment. Thank you. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we ought to ask the 3 Auditor to inquire of the City as to what use they're making 4 of the money for the First Responders if there is, indeed, 5 as the Commissioner points out, no -- no director of First 6 Responder Services at this time. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll do that. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Page 24, 9 the Parks category. The -- that second item, Baker Tree 10 Service for $980. I had spoken with Commissioner Letz over 11 the weekend and asked him about it, and he wasn't aware of 12 what it was either. What is that about? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is the trimming up 14 and cleaning up of the big oak tree in the middle of Center 15 Point Park. It should be charged against the $2,500 that 16 was allocated for the improvement of Center Point Park. I 17 don't know if that's where it's charged or not, but that's 18 what it should be. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That's what it's charged as. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- okay. I never 21 could find a 662-487. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's anticipated, now 23 that that tree is cleaned up, and if the Court allocates 24 some funds next year, we'll put three or four picnic tables 25 underneath that big tree. 8 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So we have -- 2 we have set a pot of money over there for you to -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Court allocated 4 $2,500 for improvement of that park, and this comes under 5 that. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. That's all 7 I had, Judge. Thank you very much. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the 10 bills. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we authorize 14 payment of the bills as recommended by the County Auditor. 15 Any further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 16 raise your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Have we 21 already -- do we have any budget amendments? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, we do. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe the audience can go 24 for coffee now; we'll be here a while. Number 1, General 25 Fund for Parks. 9 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is related to the 2 Park budget, itself. When we budgeted expenditures for the 3 parks, we didn't budget any revenues other than the L.C.R.A. 4 money, so we -- we need a cash transfer from the General 5 Fund over to the Parks Fund in order to have a cash balance 6 in that fund. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this the same 8 $2,500? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 14 Budget Amendment Request Number 1 relating to Parks. Any 15 further comments or questions? If not, all in favor, raise 16 your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 2 21 relates to the 198th and 216th District Courts. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. We're requesting a 23 transfer of $123.51 from Special Trials to Special Court 24 Reporter in the 198th District Court. And, $1,436.83 from 25 Court-Appointed Attorneys line item in the 198th court to 10 1 Court-Appointed Attorneys in the 216th court. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 5 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 6 Budget Amendment Request Number 2 relating to the 198th and 7 216th District Courts. Any further questions? If not, all 8 in favor, raise your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 13 relates to the 198th District Court. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: This is -- this is a request 15 to transfer $2,425.46 from Special Trials to Court 16 Transcripts. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And those are covered 18 -- transcripts for those special trials? Is that -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: It's -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is it apples and 21 oranges, or -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's -- I can't tell 23 what -- what trial it is, but -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just curious. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: -- apparently it's for -- 11 1 more than likely would be for a special trial, because it -- 2 it's a transcript for appeal, is what it is. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 6 Williams -- I mean moved by Commissioner Griffin, second by 7 Commissioner Williams, that we approve Budget Amendment 8 Request Number 3 for the 198th court. Any further comments? 9 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4 14 relates to the District Clerk. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from -- 16 from the District Clerk to transfer $400 from Dockets and 17 Forms to Office Supplies. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 22 Budget Amendment Request Number 4 for the District Clerk. 23 Any further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 24 right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 5 4 relates to the County Law Library. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. We have a -- have a 6 bill for $1,468.50, and there's $421.54 in that line item 7 for books. There's surplus funds in the Law Library Fund, 8 and so I'm asking that we declare an emergency and use 9 surplus funds out of the Law Library. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a comment. I 12 mean, we're buying things that's not budgeted. We're going 13 into the surplus -- we're declaring an emergency, going into 14 the surplus for some books. Doesn't make any sense to me. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's -- but it's the 16 surplus for the Law Library that's represented by fees that 17 are taken in; is that correct? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is the fund dedicated only 20 for the use of the Law Library. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Wouldn't be dipping 24 into General Revenue Funds or -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not general surplus. 13 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 4 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we declare 5 an emergency and approve Budget Amendment Request Number 5 6 for County Law Library in the amount of $1,046.96. Any 7 further questions or comments? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: State where those 9 funds are coming from, Judge. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: The funds will come from the 11 surplus reserves in the County Law Library Fund. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just a comment. Is 13 this -- do we know if this is primarily due just to 14 increased costs in production, subscription to the books and 15 that sort of thing? Is that generally what would -- I would 16 assume that's it. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe it is. I don't 18 believe that they've -- they've subscribed to any new books. 19 As a matter of fact -- 20 MR. TOMLINSON: I think she's trying to cut 21 that -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- we're cutting back. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Trying to cut back. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. But this needs 25 to get reflected in the next budget so we don't end up at 14 1 the end of next year with the same problem, is my point. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further comments? If 3 not, all in favor raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 6 8 relates to the Environmental Health Department. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This is a request from 10 Glenn Holekamp to transfer $250 from the Telephone line item 11 in the Ag Barn to the same line item in Environmental 12 Health. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: They share an office, and 15 we're transferring this to cover expenses for the 16 Environmental Health. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 20 Budget Amendment Request Number 6 for the Environmental 21 Health Department. Any further comments? If not, all in 22 favor, raise your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 15 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 7 relates to Road and 2 Bridge Administration. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is to transfer 4 $299.02 from Capital Outlay and $189.32 from Machine Repairs 5 to Utilities for administrative office. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Griffin 10 second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve Budget 11 Amendment Request Number 7 for Road and Bridge 12 administration. Any further comments? If not, all in favor 13 raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 8 18 relates to the County Attorney's office. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: This -- this amendment 20 relates to the supplement that's -- that was -- that's 21 received, State supplement from the State to the County 22 Attorney. At the beginning of the budget year, we did not 23 know if -- if all the funds went directly to the County 24 Attorney as a salary, so during the budget process, we did 25 not budget FICA and retirement for -- for that supplement. 16 1 So, what this amendment does is increase the FICA line item 2 and Retirement line item in the County Attorney's budget 3 for -- for that amount. And it's a total of $3,380.68. 4 I've checked with the Treasurer. We've paid our final bill 5 for Worker's Comp. We have a balance in that -- in that 6 line item of $4,081, so I'm recommending that we use the -- 7 that surplus in that account to transfer into the County 8 Attorney's budget. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A little 10 clarification, if you will, Tommy. The amount of money that 11 was received by the County from the State, the supplement, 12 was -- I guess is intended for salaries and related; is that 13 correct? Was it all directed to salaries and no -- and no 14 allocation was made for these two items? It was all taken 15 as straight salary? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. In fact, 17 there's an A.G.'s opinion currently out that clarifies that. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Clarifies it 19 permitting it to be? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It has to be. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: It has to be. I mean, all 22 the money -- all the supplement has to be salary. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: And so the County has to pick 25 up any benefits that are related to that supplement. 17 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The State's largesse. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks a lot, State. 3 So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 6 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 7 Budget Amendment Request Number 8 for the County Attorney's 8 office. Any further comments? If not, all in favor, raise 9 your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 9 14 relates to the County Jail. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a shortfall of -- in 16 Prisoner Medical in the jail. The Sheriff has requested to 17 transfer the balance -- unused balance in Capital Outlay of 18 $2,777.97 in Prisoner Medical. And the Sheriff's Office is 19 also requesting a transfer of $505.33 from Maintenance 20 Contracts to Lease Copier for the Sheriff's Office. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- what are you 22 going to lose in your Capital Outlay department? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Nothing. They purchased 24 what they had before I took office out there, everything. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Prisoner Medical is 18 1 medications and those kinds -- we're not talking about -- 2 you didn't hire a new nurse or anything? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wouldn't surprise me. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll get to that in a 6 little bit. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 8 Do I have a motion to approve Budget Amendment Request 9 Number 9? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 14 Budget Amendment Request Number 9 for the County Jail. Any 15 further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right 16 hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 21 Amendment Request Number 10 relates to J.P., Precinct 2. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from Judge 23 Wright to transfer $13.63 from Miscellaneous line item to 24 Books, Publications, and Dues. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 19 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 3 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 4 Budget Amendment Request Number 10 for J.P. Number 2. Any 5 further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right 6 hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 11 is 11 for the County Judge. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request to transfer 13 $40.56 from Miscellaneous to Postage. I have a bill. It's 14 a late bill that we are also requesting a hand check for to 15 Federal Express for the $40.56. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 20 Budget Amendment Request Number 11 for the County Judge and 21 authorize issuance of a handbill for a late bill -- hand 22 check for a late bill. Any further comments? If not, all 23 in favor, raise your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 12 3 relates to courthouse and related buildings. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is to transfer 5 $69 from Vehicle Insurance, $1,256 from Repairs and 6 Maintenance, and $1,000 from Leasehold Improvements. $2,000 7 of that goes to Supplies, and $345 goes to Telephone line 8 item. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is all in 10 Courthouse and Related Buildings? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 15 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 16 Budget Amendment Request Number 12 for Courthouse and 17 Related Buildings. Any further questions? If not, all in 18 favor, raise your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 23 13 relates to the Sheriff's Department. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: We have bills totaling 25 $8,280. It relates to the equipping of the six new patrol 21 1 vehicles. In the original budget, before Sheriff Hierholzer 2 took office, Sheriff Hicks agreed to transfer $9,000 of his 3 original request for Capital Outlay to go to the District 4 Clerk's Office for the purchase of -- of a reader-printer, 5 the way I -- this is the way I remember it. We -- we did 6 that, plus we also reduced his Capital Outlay budget by 7 another $9,000 from -- from the original request. So, we -- 8 we have -- we're short in that -- in that line item by the 9 9,000 -- almost the $9,000. So, in my opinion, we have -- 10 we have to charge this -- we either can -- can pay this out 11 of Surplus or we could move it from the Radio Equipment line 12 item in his budget. There's $131,000 in -- remaining 13 unspent balance in that -- that account. Or we can take it 14 from Surplus. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move we approve the 16 amendment and take the money from the Radio Equipment line 17 item. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 22 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 and authorize transfer of 23 funds from the Radio Communications line item in the 24 Sheriff's Department. Any further comments? If not, all in 25 favor, raise your right hand. 22 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 14 5 relates to both the County Jail and the Sheriff's 6 Department. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: The first part of this is for 8 the jail. It's a request from the Sheriff to transfer 9 $1,894.88 from -- it's the second line item. $1,822 goes to 10 Jailer's Part-Time, and $72.88 to Overtime. The other 11 part -- the second part is to transfer $7,679.63 from Deputy 12 Salaries in the Sheriff's Office to Secretaries in the 13 Sheriff's Office. Then the third part is to transfer 14 $5,346.72 from Jailer's Salaries into Nurse's Salaries in 15 the jail. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that takes care of 17 that shortfall we had before. That last one, right? 18 Commissioner Baldwin? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. I 20 certainly would hope that the Sheriff would explain it. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What a lot of this is, 22 is when we straightened out a lot of the salary positions 23 earlier, right after I took office, like the nurses' 24 salaries and that, remember, part of the nurse's salary was 25 coming from a jailer's salary, where there's a separate line 23 1 item. We changed -- got all that corrected, but we didn't 2 change the funds from that jailer's line item into that 3 nurse's. When we changed Ron Wallace, the records clerk, 4 from a dispatcher, which is being taken out of the jail 5 budget into the records clerk, that money didn't change 6 over. When we changed Don Gray from the full-time/ 7 part-time, that money didn't change over. It's more of a 8 housecleaning thing of putting everything back in line. 9 Now, some of the overtime is just that. It's overtime, some 10 because of a scheduling deal, the way the dispatchers had 11 been working their schedules without the proper number in 12 there, and some of it's having to pull guard duty at the 13 hospital and things like that that we have. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, tell me about 15 the secretary salary again. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some of that -- 17 remember, we had records clerks that were -- or we had a 18 Special Ops secretary that we did away with, so we're 19 transferring some of those funds around, just trying to 20 clean up a lot of these changes that we had originally made. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why I'm 22 confused. In one element here, we're transferring money 23 from a secretary's line item to cover some shortfall, and 24 then in another we're transferring money back into a 25 secretary's line item. 24 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Part of it's either Jail 2 secretary or Sheriff's Office secretary, two different 3 budgets. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So it's two separate 6 line items. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I move we approve the 8 amendment, because this is, I remember, all three of those 9 situations that we approved and said we'll have to move the 10 money around on, and that's what this is doing. So, 11 unfortunately, we just got to bite the bullet and do it. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We will assume that the right 13 moneys are in the right line items -- 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- in the current budget 16 request. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's exactly what 18 we're trying to do. Now, one thing I will just kind of 19 forewarn -- I've seen, in looking at our budget, you know, 20 this will come up in the next one, is on Jailer Salaries and 21 on Prisoner Meals and things like that. When y'all 22 approved -- when Charlie started housing out-of-county 23 inmates and we kept that up, we hired these five new jailers 24 that the Court approved. Those salaries have not been put 25 into the budget for these five jailers, so next time that's 25 1 probably going to start hitting us. Prisoner meals we're 2 about out of, 'cause we're housing now 20 to 30 prisoners 3 more than what the budget originally had anticipated. So, 4 meals are going up, indigent care has gone up and all that. 5 So, we're going to start looking at shortfalls here towards 6 the end of this budget year in those line items. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to 8 second the motion, please. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 11 Budget Amendment Request Number 14. Any further comments? 12 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 15 17 relates again to the District Clerk. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. She's -- she had a 19 request here to transfer $1,600 from Deputy Clerk's Salary 20 line item to Part-Time Salaries. I think she's discussed 21 this before, before the Court, to use some of the salaries 22 that were budgeted that she has not used to hire a part-time 23 person for -- for records management. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 26 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 2 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 3 Budget Amendment Request Number 15 for the District Clerk. 4 Any further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 5 right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 16 10 relates to Jail Maintenance. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. In Jail Maintenance, 12 we have -- we've accumulated bills for this month for that 13 purpose of $3,703.73. Again, we have -- we have the option 14 to either pay these bills from General Fund Surplus or from 15 the Radio line item. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which radio line 17 item? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: In the Sheriff's budget. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I move that we approve 20 the amendment, with the funds to come from the Radio line 21 item in the Sheriff's Department. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 24 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 25 Budget Amendment Request Number 16 for the Jail, with the 27 1 funds requested to come from the Radio Communications line 2 item in the Sheriff's Department. Any further comments? If 3 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 8 Amendment Request Number 17 comes from Commissioners Court. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a -- we have bills 10 for notices for the court. We have -- there was $85.67 11 remaining in that line item. We need $123.01. I'm 12 recommending that we take that from Capital Outlay. I think 13 we've purchased all of our capital outlay needs for -- for 14 the year, and there's $1,574 remaining in that -- in that 15 account. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 20 Budget Amendment Request Number 17, with the funds requested 21 to come from Capital Outlay line item in the Commissioners 22 Court budget. Any further comments? If not, all in favor, 23 raise your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 28 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 18 3 relates again to the County Jail. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: We have prisoner meals that 5 have -- the costs related to that exceeded the original 6 budget. At this point, we have a -- we need $14,712.91 to 7 pay bills. I think this is one of the amendments that the 8 Sheriff alluded to previously, that -- that the Court agreed 9 to do at the beginning of -- or at the outset of the budget 10 year, to transfer from General Fund Surplus to -- to handle 11 those -- this situation. I currently have a bill from Sysco 12 Food Services for $13,074.69 that we need to write a check 13 for in that. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we approve, 15 declare an emergency, go into the Surplus Funds. This is -- 16 this is one of those bills that's created because the 17 Sheriff is doing his job and filling the jail up. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 20 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we declare an 21 emergency and transfer funds in the amount of $14,712.91 22 from Surplus to the Prisoner Meals for County Jail, and 23 authorize the County Auditor to issue a hand check for a 24 late bill from Sysco. Any further comments? If not, all in 25 favor, raise your right hand. 29 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 19 5 relates to the Ag Barn. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is a transfer of 7 $110.96 from Building and Grounds Maintenance to Equipment 8 Repairs for the Ag Barn. I have a -- I have a bill for 9 $70.70 from Kerr County Welding Services that I'm requesting 10 a hand check for at this time. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 14 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 15 Budget Amendment Request Number 19 and authorize issuance of 16 a hand check to Kerr County Welding. Any further questions? 17 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 20 22 relates to Road and Bridge. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from Road 24 and Bridge to transfer $12,000 from Crew Salaries to 25 Equipment Repairs. 30 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 4 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 5 Budget Amendment Request Number 20 for Road and Bridge. 6 Is -- this is anticipatory? I mean, I don't see any current 7 expense, and I see $5,962.62 in the Equipment Repairs 8 budget, and they're asking for $12,000 more? 9 MR. ODOM: No, sir. Well, let's put it this 10 way. You're running 30 days -- you know, our budget has 11 to -- we're almost maybe within $1,500, $2,000. That's not 12 enough to make it through this month or the next. What I 13 had was a series of instances with the tanker transmission. 14 I just had the pump go out on the distributor. There's 15 $8,000. We just had a bucket totally cracked on a 910 16 that's about 10 years old. So, you know, I got hit with 17 $10,000, and so what you see is a little bit late, compared 18 to what we float on our computer there. That $5,000 19 would -- it's not there, sir. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thanks, Leonard. Any 21 further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right 22 hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 31 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 21 2 relates to the Agriculture Extension Service. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This request is from 4 Eddie Holland to transfer $348.44 from Photocopy Supplies to 5 Part-Time Salaries. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 9 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 10 Budget Amendment Request Number 21. Any further comments? 11 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 22 16 relates to County Treasurer. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: The Treasurer has requested 18 this in order to purchase a printer for her PC. She has 19 $200.45 remaining in that line item. She's requesting a 20 transfer of $105 from Employee Training to Capital Outlay. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 24 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 25 Budget Amendment Request Number 22 for the County Treasurer. 32 1 Any further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 2 right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we have 7 any additional late bills, Tommy? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one for $364. It's to 11 the Ingram Postmaster for postage for J.P. 4. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Move we approve. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 15 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve a 16 late bill in the amount of $364 to the Ingram Postmaster for 17 J.P. Number 4. Any further comments? If not, all in favor, 18 raise your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 23 Tommy. At this time, I would entertain a motion to waive 24 reading and approve the minutes of the July 10th, July 17th, 25 and July 24th Commissioners Court meetings. 33 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 4 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we waive 5 reading and approve the minutes of the Kerr County 6 Commissioners Court Regular Session on Monday, July 10th, 7 Year 2000, kerr County Commissioners Court Emergency Session 8 on Monday, July 17th, Year 2000, and the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court Special Session on Monday, July 24th, 10 Year 2000. Any further comments? If not, all in favor, 11 raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. At this 16 time, do we have a motion to approve and accept the monthly 17 reports? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 22 and accept the monthly reports. Any further comments? If 23 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 34 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's supposed to be 4 the easy part. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll now move to the 6 consideration agenda. The first item for consideration is 7 from Sheriff Hierholzer. Consider and discuss authorizing 8 Sheriff to solicit bids for six new vehicles for the 9 Sheriff's Department, contingent on approval of the 10 2000/2001 budget. Sheriff? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The first item on there 12 on the vehicles, I found out something this County hasn't 13 been using, as far as the Sheriff's Office vehicles, which I 14 think we should use. The County has an interlocal agreement 15 with the Houston-Galveston AACOG deal, where we get the 16 State bids. But, in -- evidently, we've had that agreement 17 since 1993 and have not used it, as far as the patrol 18 vehicles go, and all the vehicles we've purchased since 19 then. In checking with those people, we could have saved 20 about $1,000 per unit last year alone if we'd have used that 21 instead of going out for our own bids. And that would have 22 been awarded to the same dealership; same vehicles, 23 everything else. 24 The thing I have on this, I got with them and 25 checked with them and everything. One thing they do -- and 35 1 we had talked last time about trying to get into where we 2 could get 2000-year models again in this next budget, which 3 would save the County quite a bit over the 2001-year models. 4 In doing that, I've already got prices on exactly what it 5 will take to get those. I don't know if they have them in 6 stock right now. I know we can't, you know, enact anything 7 till after October 1, but I don't know if we can do a letter 8 of intent contingent on the budget, if y'all want to look at 9 that price figure and -- and see if we can do that, kind of 10 put a hold on these cars until after October 1, 'cause they 11 may not be there otherwise. We're going to have to look at 12 the 2001 year models, most likely, because these are a State 13 bid -- the bidding and everything has already been done. 14 Plus, the prices I got from them include installing all that 15 new equipment that we've budgeted for in this -- or we've 16 asked for in this new budget. 17 The thing about that is, over last year and 18 this year -- and what this is, with them installing it all, 19 except for deer guards and except for the decaling, the -- 20 the County would still save, in the long run, about $9,000 21 over that 3-year lease of having them go ahead and rig these 22 vehicles out instead of trying to do it ourselves. This 23 last year it was almost $28,000 for the equipment. This 24 one, with them doing it, would be about $18,000. About 25 $10,000 less. But I don't know how we do that, or if y'all 36 1 can authorize me to do something with it. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: First of all, if these are on 3 the State list, we can go ahead and accept their price 4 without doing a competitive bid. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, absolutely. We 6 want to do that. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can do that. I believe 8 that we could -- we can -- we can enter into -- we can send 9 a letter to the vendor stating that subject to approval of 10 the funds in the next year's budget, we can purchase six 11 cars from them. We cannot encumber funds. We cannot 12 authorize spending. But -- but it's just like a -- the 13 current lease program we have with the cars. We have to 14 authorize funds for those every year. It's always 15 understood that the County cannot -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, it wouldn't hurt 17 to try. I mean, for -- if the vendor is willing to do that. 18 The only thing is, since we can't encumber the funds, he may 19 not be willing to -- he may not be willing to hold the 20 vehicles. That -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Leonard, do you have a 22 comment, sir? 23 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Leonard Odom. We went 24 through this last year, and what the probability is, if you 25 send that letter in, that they will -- and if they have it 37 1 on-hand, what they're paying is floor plan, so you may have 2 to pay some interest to hold it to 1 October, but it 3 probably would be minimal, you know. That's something you 4 need to check on. I believe that they will do it. If you 5 were ordering it, Rusty, it would be six weeks to eight 6 weeks in there, and really, it's -- now's the time to order 7 that. We'll be coming to Court for the same thing next -- 8 next time, but -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Plus it takes them 10 another -- it would take them probably 30 days to get the 11 equipment installed in them, anyhow. That would be -- 12 MR. ODOM: But they may sell it to you and 13 just charge you some type of interest for the floor plan for 14 each unit. Probably do that for you without encumbering any 15 cost in this budget year. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to 17 comment, Sheriff. The department was -- Sheriff's 18 Department was made aware of the Houston-Galveston 19 purchasing opportunity last year, 'cause I passed that 20 information over to them, 'cause I know they were aware of 21 it. Why they didn't use it, I don't know. Whether it made 22 any sense not to use it, I don't know. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I never -- never knew -- 24 now, at that time, of course, I wasn't with them, but I 25 didn't even know we had that interlocal agreement with them 38 1 until I started checking around trying to look at State bids 2 and State prices. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I think we've 4 got some research we've got to do before we can answer that 5 question. I don't think we can answer that today, can we? 6 We can try. If you can find out what the process might be, 7 it might be worth a try to see if we can get 2000 unit 8 vehicles instead 2001, which will be more expensive. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: What is the pleasure -- do we 11 want to ask the Sheriff to bring this back at the next 12 meeting? Do we want to authorize the Sheriff and the County 13 Judge to enter into a letter of intent, subject to 14 authorization of the funds for next year? What is the 15 Court -- what's the Court's pleasure? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would move we take 17 the latter approach and authorize the Sheriff and the County 18 Judge to investigate it and if, without encumbering funds, 19 we can enter into some kind of letter agreement with the 20 vendor to hold those vehicles, see what the -- and bring 21 that back to the next -- bring the results of that back to 22 the next Court session. I think -- but authorize -- my 23 motion would be to authorize the Judge and the Sheriff to 24 take the action, as long as we don't encumber funds. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that in the form 39 1 of a motion? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a motion. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before we vote, I'd 5 like to see the County Attorney do one of these things or 6 something. 7 MR. LUCAS: You're okay. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to vote on 9 that. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion made by Commissioner 11 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, to authorize the 12 Sheriff and the County Judge to enter into a letter of 13 intent for six patrol vehicles from -- do you have the name 14 of the vendor, Sheriff? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's Philpott Motors. 16 Same one -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: From Philpott Motors, subject 18 to the -- the appropriation by the Commissioners Court of 19 funds for vehicles in the next fiscal year budget. Any 20 further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right 21 hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item, 40 1 which is Item Number 2, is to consider and discuss 2 authorizing the Sheriff to go out for bids on fuel from the 3 Sheriff's Department vehicles. And, again, contingent on 4 approval of the 2000/2001 budget. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Why I put this on the 6 agenda, it's mainly just to get some guidance from the 7 Court. Unfortunately, the Sheriff's Office never went out 8 for bids on fuel before, and I don't know -- like Mr. Odom 9 uses; I don't know that we can get a bid for a year. It's 10 probably a monthly bid that we're going to have to start 11 doing. And then there's the options in that, do we want to 12 explore the costs of putting our own storage tanks at the 13 Law Enforcement Center, or do you -- would you rather that 14 we kind of put out bids with vendors like we're doing now -- 15 like we're using right now? 'Cause I'm sure there would be 16 an enormous difference in that, but I need to start getting 17 something ready so y'all have figures by October 1 or before 18 the budget. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I, for one, 20 Sheriff, would like to see us evolve to -- to the point 21 where we could buy in bulk and store it, and use it as you 22 need it, as opposed to buying at the retail pump, but I 23 don't think we're going to be ready to do that in time for 24 this new budget. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd have to ask 41 1 Mr. Odom -- they have their own containment; they buy in 2 bulk and have their own tanks out at Road and Bridge. I 3 don't know if we can get access to that and enlarge that to 4 where, if we -- how long it would take to put in those 5 containment-type and all the E.P.A. requirements on having 6 our own storage tanks and our own pumps out there at the Law 7 Enforcement Center. I -- I have never had to deal with 8 this, so I just have no idea if it can be done in time for 9 this. And if it were to be done, do we include building 10 those E.P.A. standard facilities as part of the bid? Do 11 we -- you know, how do we -- what do I need to do? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two separate items, 13 probably. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think this -- and I 15 applaud the initiative to get this where we could buy in 16 bulk and store it on our own, but I think that there's too 17 much -- too many questions to answer to get it into this 18 budget cycle. And I would like to make that -- I would -- I 19 would like to just give -- for the Court to give guidance, 20 that we program that for the following year. And for this 21 coming year, let's go out for bids at the retail pump, just 22 to keep it simple enough for us to -- we've got an awful lot 23 of balls in the air right now. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And this, I think, 42 1 would be a big bite to chew off this late in our budget 2 preparation cycle. So, I think we need to do one more year, 3 but do it on bids. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And -- and assuming, 6 if the rest of the Court goes along with this, and that we 7 will try to look at for the following budget year the 8 ability to store our own. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Leonard, do you have a 10 comment, sir? 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. The Sheriff and I had 12 had a discussion previously about this, and there was some 13 questions, but Road and Bridge will try to meet his needs 14 and -- and the conflicts -- I think there are ways to go 15 about it. We did before out there without hitting EPA-type 16 things, the fire marshal here. So, there's certain size 17 issues, quantity of use and availability at night, and so 18 there's things that we need to talk about. And we're 19 certainly -- I don't think there's anything we can't work 20 out and have a plan for you later on. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For next budget year. 22 MR. ODOM: In this coming budget year, way 23 ahead of time before the next one -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 25 MR. ODOM: -- ever comes up, we may be able 43 1 to work it out. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would feel much more 3 comfortable with that approach. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would actually like 6 to throw up another ball to put in the air with the rest of 7 them, that I've been talking about for 10 or 12 years, and 8 adding to that is the possibility of a plan for Road and 9 Bridge or the Unit Road System to add a bay or two and a 10 mechanic or two and take over the maintenance of the 11 Sheriff's Office, also. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd be supportive of 13 that initiative, as well. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would be very 15 supportive of that, 'cause the next item on this is trying 16 to figure out how do we go out for bids for maintenance on 17 vehicles. This year alone, up to now, we spent over $40,000 18 trying to keep those vehicles on the road. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take them one at a 20 time. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go back to fuel. Do you 23 need -- do you need anything from us, as far as how you can 24 structure the bids? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm going to need a lot 44 1 of guidance there, and this is my inexperience as far as 2 this part. The Sheriff's Office has never ever gone out for 3 bids on fuel, so I'm going to have to count on the Court and 4 on Mr. Odom, probably, to help guide us in developing the 5 bid package, the specs, or are we going to -- 'cause I have 6 no idea. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there a -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's something that -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Could we have a volunteer 10 from the Court to work with the Sheriff and Mr. Odom in 11 developing a bid package and specs for this fuel? We've got 12 to do this; we have no choice but to do this this year. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be happy to do 14 that, but these guys are very capable. 15 MR. ODOM: Really, the third -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me finish. Let me 17 finish; I'm going to say something nice about you. 18 MR. ODOM: I'm sorry. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Road and Bridge, 20 through their history, shows that they have this thing down 21 to a science. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Except they're doing 23 bulk. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're doing a very, 25 very good job in this particular area. 45 1 MR. ODOM: Thank you. But what I was going 2 to get at wasn't argumentative in that aspect. What Rusty 3 says, really, that third function, are you going to have 4 maintenance? If the solution was to solve it over there 5 with Rusty, that's one thing, to meet his needs 24 hours a 6 day. You know, we only go eight hours a day in there, or 7 ten hours in there. So, you know, if we're going to have a 8 maintenance facility, that's something you really need to 9 sort of give us guidance. Do we do this? But, remember, I 10 only have 2 acres, so I'm pretty cramped as it is with 11 what -- you know, how much traffic goes in and out of that 12 place in there. During the day it's all right. In the 13 mornings and evenings it's pretty tight with what I've got 14 there, so those -- you know, the -- this needs to 15 encompass supplying maintenance and all like that for them, 16 too. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I wonder if I might 18 add to my suggested guidance from the Court that we look at 19 all three of these. The vehicles, we've already got that 20 one taken care of, but on the fuel and maintenance, we're 21 going to have to address that as we have in the past for 22 this coming budget year; that is, go out for bids. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Except we've never gone out 24 for bids. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I know. Except to do 46 1 it on a bid basis, rather than catch-as-catch-can for this 2 year. But I think it's going to require some study on the 3 part -- and with Road and Bridge's help, with this Sheriff 4 and with the Court, as necessary, to figure out what would 5 be the requirements to have a combined vehicle maintenance 6 facility. If there's not enough property there, we need to 7 know that. But that's -- that's a much bigger problem than 8 we can address before this budget has to go to bed -- this 9 next budget has to be put to bed. So -- so, I think we're 10 going to have to, with the exception of going out for bids, 11 do it like we have for this next year, just as we have in 12 the past, and the following year, hope to see that as an 13 initiative that we can look at, and if we can afford it and 14 it makes sense and it saves money in the long run, we'll do 15 it. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: What I'm hearing, Sheriff, is 17 that we -- I think what you need to do is get with 18 Commissioner Odom -- I mean Mr. Odom and Commissioner 19 Baldwin and bring back to us on the 28th the bid package for 20 both the fuels and the maintenance. And Mr. Holekamp may be 21 able to offer some insight, too, since he's done 22 maintenance -- H.V.A.C. maintenance contract. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I was really 24 after, just some guidance on there. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: But we do need that on the 47 1 28th, because we would like to bid that before the end of 2 the fiscal year so we know whether we should make any 3 adjustments at the last minute or not. So, if you all can 4 do that, that would be fine. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. That will 6 take care of all three of those. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 4, 8 clarify Nash recommendation for Justice Court Clerk's new 9 title of Justice of the Peace Court Coordinator and 10 recommend movement upwards in pay grade. Judge Elliott will 11 address this. Barbara, do you have anything? You'll get to 12 weigh-in in a minute. 13 MS. NEMEC: I may. 14 JUDGE ELLIOTT: The members of the Court have 15 a copy of the document submitted earlier to review. The 16 Nash report did come out and recommend a title change from 17 Clerk to Justice of the Peace Court Coordinator for the 18 justice clerks in Kerr County. Their comments were, in 19 Number 4, that "On the salary schedule we recommend movement 20 upwards, but not parity with Court Coordinator." And the 21 difference between those two is a current grade of 12, which 22 is for clerk, and the court coordinator, which is a 19. So, 23 we didn't have anything to appeal. We didn't originally put 24 ourselves in on the appeal process, because we were in 25 agreement with their recommendation. However, they've left 48 1 some openness as to what current grade -- or what grade the 2 court clerk should be at. So, we -- the four J.P.'s got 3 together and did make a recommendation to the Appeals 4 Committee, and the Appeals Committee got together and voted, 5 and the recommendation was to be in the middle there at a 6 pay grade of 15. And, at this time, I will yield to the 7 distinguished Commissioner of Precinct 1, Mr. Buster 8 Baldwin, who was on that committee, to confirm that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Judge. 10 I'll yield my time to -- to the chairman of that committee, 11 our County Treasurer. 12 MS. NEMEC: That is correct. And then this 13 morning I did receive the full report from Nash, and on his 14 report he also recommends that they be moved from a 12 to a 15 15. The only difference is, on his report, on the title, he 16 has them as recommending that they be Justice of the Peace 17 Court Coordinators, and our committee voted that they be 18 Justice of the Peace Court Clerks. And one of the reasons 19 was our District Clerk looked it up in the law, that -- and 20 that was where this came from -- that they are, in the 21 statute, supposed to have clerks. So, instead of calling 22 them Court Coordinators, our recommendation was that they be 23 J.P. Court Clerks at a 15. 24 JUDGE ELLIOTT: And I was going to get to 25 that. Yes, by statute, we do need to have the court clerks, 49 1 but their responsibilities are also very vast, and we're in 2 agreement with the Nash report and recommendation and would 3 urge the Court to change the pay grade to 15, as recommended 4 by the survey. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any comments or questions? 6 MS. NEMEC: Judge, could -- my only comment 7 is that this is all -- there were several appeals that were 8 brought before us, and this is all, as we speak, being put 9 in a format to present to the Court of everything that the 10 committee discussed and what our recommendations were. And, 11 rather than doing them one at a time, my suggestion is that 12 it all be done at one time when we turn that report in to 13 you. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a 16 better approach. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I thought this was for 18 clarification, which I think we've clarified what everybody 19 said and what everybody voted. But this requires no action 20 today, necessarily. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's scheduled for action, so 22 we'll ask Judge Elliott if he's comfortable in -- in waiting 23 till all the changes to the Nash report are taken up at one 24 time. 25 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Gentlemen, yes. I just want 50 1 to make sure that the Commissioners Court is under the -- 2 the classification that it is a recommended pay grade 15, 3 whereas before it was ambiguous as to what pay grade it was. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you. Let's do 5 one more quick one, then we'll have our public hearing. We 6 can get our D.P.S. people back on the road. The next item 7 we'll take up real quick is Item Number 5, consider and 8 discuss approving surplus capital outlay funds on four GPS 9 systems for patrol cars, Texas Department of Public Safety. 10 We have in our packets a letter from Sergeant Seale 11 regarding the fact that they got the radars cheaper and that 12 they're asking to use the surplus funds for GPS systems. 13 Morning, Sergeant Seale. 14 SGT. SEALE: Good morning. The reason we want 15 to do this, we had about approximately -- I'd have to talk 16 to Tommy on this, but approximately $800 left in this year's 17 budget. We were able to bring the radar purchases in at a 18 little bit cheaper price than -- than in the past. What 19 we'd like to do is purchase four GPS units; that would be 20 one for each one of our patrol cars here in Kerr County. 21 That would allow us -- and right now we're using two 22 personal GPS's, and what we're doing is coordinating those. 23 In the past, with Airlife and out here on the Interstate or 24 out in any of our rural areas, they find us currently with 25 overheads and radios. What we've done in the last couple of 51 1 months is experiment a little bit with the GPS systems, our 2 own personal systems. When they take off from San Antonio 3 or wherever they leave from, we give them simply our 4 coordinates where we're sitting, and they can fly straight 5 to us. And it has expedited things, especially in times 6 when we've got some bad weather. 7 And, these units sell roughly for -- the system that 8 we're looking at is the Magellan 315, which sells for 9 approximately $150 per unit. And then there's a couple 10 of -- I think for about 40 bucks, we want to buy two mapping 11 softwares that are in our computers that are in our units. 12 And, two of those systems would cost roughly 80 bucks for 13 the mapping software. We also are using these things 14 currently statewide on manhunts, keeping up with our units, 15 keeping up with our troopers out here. I know exactly -- or 16 the supervisor knows exactly where they're at and how to 17 coordinate their activities. That's why we've come to the 18 Court to see if we can divert those funds. We had 19 originally asked for those in this coming year's budget, but 20 we found that we did have that surplus and would like to 21 purchase those this year, if we could. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, I'd like to 23 make a motion that we approve the transfer of those funds 24 for that purpose, and with the comment that, as a pilot, I 25 know very well the value of the GPS system, and it is -- 52 1 that is a big help to the helicopter guys coming out of San 2 Antonio. Big help. And -- and increases the safety 3 potentially for the public. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second the motion. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 6 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 7 authorize use of the surplus funds in the -- in the Texas 8 Department of Public Safety budget for purpose of the GPS 9 systems, not to exceed the amount of funds remaining in 10 that -- this year's Capital Outlay line item. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correction, Judge. I 12 seconded it, although I'm sure Commissioner Baldwin was 13 thinking about it. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: With the note that 16 Commissioner Baldwin is just a little slow on the mark. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd be happy to 18 yield. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further comments? If 20 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 25 Sergeant. We appreciate it. 53 1 SGT. SEALE: Thank you. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, it is 3 10 o'clock, the time scheduled for a public hearing on the 4 Kerr County, Texas, On-Site Sewage Facility Proposed Order 5 and Rules. At this time, the Court will go into recess and 6 we will open the public hearing on adopting rules of Kerr 7 County, Texas, for on-site sewage facilities, the draft of 8 which rules have been on file in the County Clerk's office. 9 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:00 a.m., and a public hearing 10 was held in open court, as follows:) 11 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. We're going to 13 take these more or less in the order in which they were 14 presented. First person requesting an opportunity to be 15 heard was Mr. Eddie Taylor. 16 MR. TAYLOR: I would like to pass at this time, 17 if you don't mind. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's quite all right, Mr. 19 Taylor. Happy to do that. Next will be Vernon Harrison. 20 Come forward, Mr. Harrison. 21 MR. HARRISON: I'm here to address one 22 particular issue, which is the -- and I'm -- all I know 23 about is what I read in the newspaper, and so I'm looking at 24 the rules as they appear to be in yesterday's paper, and I 25 have a particular concern about the statements that were 54 1 made in the paper. And I'm presuming that the paper 2 evaluated the rules correctly. And, they made two 3 statements that concern me. I'm currently in the process of 4 building some houses in the west part of the county, along 5 with my partner, Larry Graham, and we're building these 6 houses on lots that are less than 1 acre. This -- they were 7 in a platted subdivision, a subdivision that was platted 8 under the then existing rules in 1989. And, up till now, 9 it's been my understanding that it was allowable, and about 10 half those lots had been built out that had O.S.S.F. systems 11 on them. We have an application pending for one right now, 12 which has not yet been acted on. 13 Anyway, in the paper it indicated that the -- 14 that the new permits -- that no new permit to construct will 15 be issued for an O.S.S.F. system for a tract of less than 1 16 acre, unless the plans are approved by a licensed sanitarian 17 and/or a professional engineer. I don't have any particular 18 problem with that, if that's the way it is. The next 19 paragraph says a tract served or to be served by an O.S.S.F. 20 and a public water supply must be at least 1 acre. On this 21 particular subdivision, there is a water well that serves 22 the 28 acres, and if that is -- if that means that those 23 lots wouldn't qualify because they are being served by a 24 central water system, then that would impact us greatly. 25 That would change us from having lots that are currently 55 1 properly platted to a situation where we have lots currently 2 platted, but we couldn't build on them. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Harrison, I don't mean 4 to -- to cut you off, but -- 5 MR. HARRISON: That's all right, I'm about 6 finished. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- that's the current rule. 8 That's not a change; it's something that -- that is part of 9 the current system. 10 MR. HARRISON: Okay. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, you know, this -- this 12 proposed order does not change that requirement in any way. 13 You always have the opportunity to request a variance from 14 that. 15 MR. HARRISON: All right. Is that -- and 16 is -- is that the interpretation of a public water system, a 17 water well that is serving a group? Is that public? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: You'd have to get a technical 19 interpretation on that. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I think -- I 21 think that is a public water system, Charlie, is it not? If 22 it serves -- 23 MR. WIEDENFELD: To be considered a public 24 water system by T.N.R.C.C. standards, it has to be 15 25 connections or regularly serve 25 people. 56 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 2 MR. WIEDENFELD: There's a gray area between 3 less than 5 connections up to 15. If they're not -- if 4 they're all kinfolks, then it's not a public water system; 5 it's a shared well. Like I said, there's a gray area. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How much do you have 7 there? 8 MR. HARRISON: Well, currently, there would 9 be -- there's not less -- there's more than 15 lots, yes. 10 There's not more than 15 connections, but the plans would be 11 that there would be. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, that's -- you know, 13 that's a question of interpretation we can't take up at this 14 time. It's not properly posted, and we don't have the 15 information before us. But what I'm trying to tell you, Mr. 16 Harrison, is that the situation you described is already 17 existing in the current rule. It's nothing that's being 18 changed by rules that are being considered today. And you 19 just have to work with the U.G.R.A., and if there's a 20 variance required, you have to work through them or bring it 21 to the Court to request a variance. 22 MR. HARRISON: I understand. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you. Next, 24 Mr. W. G. Stacy. 25 MR. STACY: Thank you. Gentlemen, as you may 57 1 know, I was Judge when we started -- put these rules in 2 effect, and I'm pretty familiar with them. I do want to 3 speak to the possible change of the 25-acre exemption, 4 because that was put in there because of the camps. The 5 camps are very important, and the way the U.G.R.A. has been 6 interpreting the septic systems, the costs would be 7 prohibitive. Commissioner Baldwin already knows what the 8 costs of these aerobic systems are that they've been putting 9 in, and they have been failing. We had only one system when 10 these rules were made of an aerobic system; it was down off 11 Elm Pass Road, and it was so terrible, the smell and 12 everything, that we discarded it. 13 Also, a mention has been made in the paper 14 about the so-called "Carlisle Report." Commissioner Baldwin 15 was on the Court when the Carlisle Report was -- was 16 adopted, paying $8,000 to Dr. Carlisle. This is what the 17 Carlisle report came from, and that's the Soil Conservation 18 of the United States Department of Agriculture. When I 19 asked Dr. Carlisle about the report when he had his seminar, 20 asked him how long he had been in Kerrville, he looked at 21 his watch and said, "An hour and a half." 'Cause all of his 22 examples were out of Louisiana. So, when we adopted these 23 rules, we threw out the Carlisle Report for a very simple 24 reason; 'cause the 18 inches of the leach line lets the 25 water evaporate up. It does not go down into the soil. 58 1 That has never been the case. So, if you step outside, 2 you'll notice that the heat is -- is baking our ground, and 3 the soil -- the water in the leach line evaporates up, and 4 that's why the grass is always greener. 5 We have a problem with the enforcement of 6 these rules. And, as I see what -- the rules that U.G.R.A. 7 wants, they want to have septic police. They want the 8 County Attorney to enforce these rules, and I think that's 9 wrong, 'cause I have turned into the U.G.R.A. people a 10 violation of the Hunt Store, and it was violating our 11 current rules, and they did nothing about it. So, there you 12 have rules that are being selectively enforced. One of the 13 members of the U.G.R.A. staff owns a water system that is 14 presently in violation of these rules, and nothing is done 15 about that. So, gentlemen, I think that you better give a 16 lot of consideration, and certainly don't hurt the camping 17 industry by waiving the 25-acre rule, because we are blessed 18 with about 18 camps, I believe, here in this community, 19 whereas other adjoining counties only have maybe one or two. 20 Thank you. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 22 (Applause.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Paul Siemers? 24 MR. SIEMERS: Okay. I guess I'm going to 25 take a little different approach, 'cause I'm not in favor of 59 1 some of the things that have already been spoken about. One 2 of the things I want to say is that, as much as I've dealt 3 with government over the years, one of the things I've 4 always hoped is that government would base its decisions 5 more on logic and fact than on emotion. The more I see of 6 government, the more I see that emotion plays much too large 7 a role in what goes on. 8 Based on that, as I started to read the new 9 rules that have been proposed, and I read the Preamble and 10 the Order sections, all the right words were there. It said 11 these are the reasons we need -- you'll have to bear with me 12 again, I'm sorry. This is the reason why we need good, 13 strong O.S.S.F. rules, and some of the examples were to 14 prevent pollution, for injury to public health arising out 15 of the use of O.S.S.F.'s, the establishment of a regulated 16 zone adjacent to the Guadalupe River -- these are being 17 taken out of context, but they're -- I'm not -- I have not 18 changed the intent of what was said. 19 It says the soils in Kerr County are 20 generally porous limestone, susceptible to rapid 21 transportation of pollutants, and therefore -- and the 22 words, "to protect the public health, safety, and welfare of 23 the residents of Kerr County, additional protective measures 24 are appropriate and necessary..." The Hill Country is a -- 25 the Hill Country is a critical area, a P.G.M.A., a Priority 60 1 Groundwater Management Area, which means our water is 2 critical to us and in jeopardy of being depleted. The use 3 of -- and one of the best ones I like, that use of 4 O.S.S.F.'s in Kerr County can potentially cause pollution of 5 the environment or injuries to public health. These are the 6 reasons we have rules. These are the reasons we have to 7 have good rules. 8 Then I read into -- into the Amendment 9 section, and one of the things that jumped out at me was the 10 25-acre exception and the allowability of small lots. These 11 two concepts violate or jeopardize all the reasons we have 12 rules. If we let one person put in one septic system in a 13 river corridor that could potentially contaminate the river, 14 all the intent has gone away. A little philosophy now; 15 maybe a little emotion, even. The river -- it's been said 16 about the river in Kerr County, a river runs through it. 17 The river in this county, it's the lifeblood of the county. 18 I think we all can agree on that. And the aquifers that 19 supply that river are the heart of the county. 20 Those are the two things that must be 21 protected, because everybody who lives in this county or 22 works in this county is directly or indirectly dependent on 23 the river for his or her life and/or livelihood. And a 24 damaged river or a damaged aquifer affects everyone. One 25 person can affect the lives of everybody. One system -- 61 1 failed system that's not properly maintained or installed 2 can affect the lives of everybody in this county. 3 Therefore, everybody has the responsibility to care for and 4 protect the river and the aquifers from harm. Everybody. 5 Everybody has to obey the rules. And the exception from 6 the -- for a new O.S.S.F. or an exception at the time of 7 property transfer violates the intent of the rules. The 8 rules are to protect the public health and the environment. 9 Exceptions, if they do not encourage violation, they allow 10 it, human nature being what it is. Therefore, the 25-acre 11 exception is wrong, because it provides the opportunity to 12 violate the intent of the law, and should be done away with. 13 As I said before, it only takes one bad system in the wrong 14 place to create a major problem for this entire county, 15 which would directly have an impact on not only the camps, 16 but everything that goes on here, and my well and your well. 17 As far as the high-density housing is 18 concerned, I do not believe the soil -- regardless of the 19 Carlisle report or anything else, the soil in this county, 20 especially the western part of the county, is compatible 21 with septic systems on acre lots or less than acre lots. I 22 believe that a 1-acre lot should require a public water and 23 public sewage. A 2-acre, 2 1/2-acre lot should be required 24 for an O.S.S.F. and public water supply, and that a lot of 25 at least 5 acres should be required for an O.S.S.F. and an 62 1 individual water well. If these -- these changes are 2 incorporated into the rules, then the rules would accomplish 3 the preamble objectives. 4 What really bothers me is that everybody 5 here -- everybody in the county doesn't want to do 6 everything necessary to protect the river, the aquifers, and 7 their future. A few dollars invested today protect your 8 future, and is good business and it's logical. If you 9 contaminate the river, there goes your business. The 10 profits of a few landowners and developers are not more 11 important than the future health and welfare of the entire 12 community. That's the risk to the river and the aquifer 13 with the increase -- the increased population and tourism. 14 Are we willing to risk the health of the community by not 15 taking every step possible to protect the river and aquifer? 16 I hope not. Therefore, I urge you to seriously consider the 17 proposed rules. Thank you. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 19 (Applause.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Charlie Digges? 21 MR. DIGGES: I'd first like to address the 22 25-acre exemption. I'm opposed to that. I want us to 23 consider some of what's already been said. It's been 24 pointed out by Bill Stacy that the Guadalupe River has a lot 25 of camps along it, and that the surrounding counties do not. 63 1 One thing we do have in common with those surrounding 2 counties, when you consider the Llano River and you consider 3 the Medina River, they're all about the same size. They're 4 small rivers. In other counties, they'd be considered 5 creeks or little streams. They're not big; it doesn't take 6 a whole lot to pollute them, and so in those other counties 7 where the -- the Llano River goes and the Medina River goes 8 in the western part of their headwaters, you notice they 9 don't have exemptions. Here we are, we're the ones with the 10 most activity -- recreational activity on our river, and 11 Bill Stacy wants to protect those camps and those campers, 12 but in order to do that, we have to protect the river. So, 13 it seems to me we've kind of got our priorities out of sorts 14 in that regard. 15 When it comes to defining the river corridor, 16 it was defined all the way back in 1864. I have a map from 17 the General Land Office in my survey building that shows all 18 the lands that were surveyed at that time in 1864. There 19 was a lot of the outward parts where there wasn't water that 20 weren't even surveyed, 'cause they weren't important to 21 people, and so back in 1864 we defined our river corridor; 22 we didn't even know it. The point is, is that people are 23 going to gravitate to building their homes, whether they 24 have a 100-acre tract or a 1-acre tract, towards what water 25 they have on their property. It's just a natural thing for 64 1 humans to do. So, I'd like for to you seriously consider 2 what you're about to do when it comes to the 25-acre 3 exemption. 4 We've talked some about caliche and we've 5 talked about how limestone is very porous. And limestone, 6 when degenerated, I think, is what actually becomes our 7 caliche, and so it doesn't have a lot of organics, it 8 doesn't have a lot of microbial activity. And, you combine 9 that with its porosity, and so the thing that gives you 10 treatment is the -- the residual time that the wastewater 11 spends in the upper portions of the -- of the surface of the 12 earth. If you -- if you don't have good soil and that is a 13 rapidly transmitted effluent that's moving through there, 14 you'll have an opportunity for problems. 15 We've got Greenwood Forest that has been 16 noted to have problems. We have Kerrville South that's been 17 noted to have problems. I would like for y'all to point to 18 me what piece of manufacturing or industry that is out 19 there, or what form of farming or ranching is out there 20 that's affecting it. All the indicators are that it's from 21 household sewage. So, I think we need to consider -- 22 consider that. Also consider that the research council, 23 which is a function of the State, says the jury's not in on 24 caliche. They have on their agenda right now an RFP 25 soliciting any research literature that's been done on 65 1 caliche. They want more data; they're not sure. So, if 2 they're not sure, and we have the Guadalupe River that's 3 important to us, why are we shortcutting a safety factor 4 that we have? 5 And the last thing I'd like to talk about is, 6 for this program to operate the way it needs to, we need 7 a -- a knowledgeable staff. We need a full staff. And, 8 that may not come with the price tag that you all are paying 9 right now. The one thing that -- you know, we've been 10 noting that aerobic systems sometimes don't work. Almost 11 always when they don't work, it's because they're not being 12 maintained. And if you don't have staff for U.G.R.A. or 13 whoever is administering the program to track those systems 14 and ensure that you have maintenance contracts, those things 15 aren't going to work right. But those homeowners signed an 16 affidavit that they realized that they were going to have to 17 have a maintenance contract, and they were told up front 18 they needed a maintenance contract, and so -- and even when 19 the property changes hands, there's -- it's caught by the -- 20 by the title company. That affidavit to the public is in 21 the public records, and so it's caught on the title search, 22 and that homeowner can be made abreast of -- of what's going 23 on and why they have to have a maintenance contract, so 24 there isn't anything hidden about that. Everything's made 25 to be up front. 66 1 There's probably a few of those scenarios 2 that fall through the cracks, and that's not good. But 3 everybody, when they get involved with an aerobic system, 4 should understand what the responsibilities are, and there 5 are responsibilities to it, but it's much cheaper than 6 trying to create a centralized collection and treatment 7 system. It's very difficult in our terrain and our rock. 8 So, I want to you consider that, too, if you would. Thank 9 you. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Keith Marquart? 11 MR. MARQUART: Good morning. I do work for 12 the Upper Guadalupe River Authority, but this morning I'm 13 here in a little bit different capacity. I would like to 14 speak with you about this as an expert, perhaps. I do have 15 a Bachelor's degree in soil science and a Master's degree in 16 soil science from Texas A & M University, and I'm here in 17 support of the Carlisle study. I believe that -- this is my 18 opinion -- that caliche is not a suitable substrate for the 19 treatment of septic effluent from households. I've lived in 20 this area all my life, 35 years. I've grown up running up 21 and down this river, and I've seen a lot of changes in 35 22 years, and they're not good. So, I believe that we should 23 support the Carlisle study in the future O.S.S.F. rules and 24 not allow caliche, which, as a soil scientist, I can tell 25 you it's hard to define. 67 1 We do have definitions for caliche, and a lot 2 of what we have in Kerr County may not actually be caliche, 3 but that's what we call it anyway because it does exhibit 4 most of the characteristics. So, I'll just keep it short 5 and say I urge you to consider that, and I believe it's 6 always better to err on the side of caution, and I think if 7 you support the Carlisle study, that's what you'll be doing. 8 Thank you. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Charles 10 Wiedenfeld. 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: Good morning, Your Honor, 12 Court. Charles Wiedenfeld. I'm the Kerr County Designated 13 Representative for the septic program, and I still have some 14 issues that I would like to bring to y'all's attention. I 15 have -- have some information there that I would like to get 16 into the public hearing. It's -- some of it has come to me 17 from outside sources and comments that have been provided. 18 And, to begin with, we still feel like we need some work to 19 be done on the issuance of a permit, possibly at the time of 20 sale, from the designated representative. And -- and 21 something to address the issue that the homeowner has come 22 in, has made application, has notified the designated 23 representative that a sale is pending, and the designated 24 representative then has given authorization to proceed, 25 which is -- essentially is a permit. 68 1 With that, we have several mechanisms and 2 procedures that probably can take place in order to issue a 3 permit, which one would be to possibly get a properly 4 executed affidavit of responsibility, an assumption by the 5 buyer that they will take full responsibility for the septic 6 system. Some of the other avenues could be that we've 7 actually issued a permit to construct a new system if -- if 8 it is necessary. And you'll see then in the -- the top 9 paperwork that you have seen here, that includes language to 10 the effect of having a permit to construct and the 11 definitions that would be needed. Okay. 12 Another issue that's come to my attention 13 since we've last met is the issue of purple pipe, which 14 is -- the rule was intended that all subsurface piping to a 15 septic system would be color-coded purple, which is the 16 E.P.A. standard for wastewater collection and pipe to 17 indicate that this is unsafe for potable use and -- and that 18 kind of purpose. We were led earlier on to believe that the 19 availability of that pipe was subject -- was going to be 20 easy enough to handle. I think some of the suppliers we've 21 checked into are having second thoughts. They're saying the 22 spray heads that -- that actually are showing, visible from 23 the ground, they do have purple-coated spray heads on a lot 24 of stuff, but, again, the piping is not available to the 25 extent that we were led to believe when we were drafting 69 1 this order. I believe the State is going to incorporate the 2 use of purple pipe in their standards when they have their 3 rewrite probably later this year, first part of next year. 4 Just some information for y'all's consideration. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Charlie, are you 6 saying that we shouldn't include it in the order at this 7 time? 8 MR. WIEDENFELD: I -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Amend it later? Is 10 that what -- 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: My recommendation -- while 12 it's a noble and very worthwhile idea, you may be causing 13 more problems if suppliers can't get the pipe. I have -- my 14 recommendation to y'all probably would be to go ahead and 15 leave it in the order, and if it is something that we have 16 tremendous trouble with, I think we can work with it. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, we'll talk about 18 that, but I -- if we don't think it's a good idea at this 19 point, I'd rather leave it out and come back and put it back 20 in later when we know the materials are available. 21 That's -- that's my thought. Anyway, I'm sorry to interrupt 22 you. 23 MR. WIEDENFELD: You're accepted. Okay. 24 Another issue that we have received much attention since the 25 last hearing here is the caliche -- the issue of caliche. 70 1 And you will see also some documentation there. I went back 2 and visited with Dr. Carlisle and requested him to provide 3 his -- a 10-year summary, a 15-year, after he had did the 4 study for y'all, the County, in 1988, and his recommendation 5 is there in front of y'all. That -- again, he did -- he 6 really has not changed his -- his thoughts on caliche, and 7 as mentioned by Keith Marquart here, that, again, caliche 8 can take forms of being very porous, which are probably the 9 ones that we are most concerned with and that have the 10 potential then to get to groundwater or come out -- pop out 11 the side of the hill. 12 I have also proposed -- have a recommendation 13 for a proposed Rule 10, I believe, or 10(m), which would 14 define caliche, and it also then would prohibit the use of 15 caliche in certain cases where soil conditions would -- 16 would not permit a caliche system. And, probably key to 17 that is if -- it would go back to doing a percolation test. 18 If the caliche soils have a perk test greater than a -- than 19 an acceptable -- or a perk rate of 5 inches per minute, we 20 would -- that would not be a suitable soil in Kerr County. 21 And, so, that is what you're going to see, is language to 22 the effect in that proposed rule that's in front of you. 23 And so, again, this is, I feel, something that we should 24 have in our rules. 25 Again, as Charlie Digges has mentioned, 71 1 you'll also notice I provided that information he 2 referenced, in that the Texas On-Site Research Council has 3 some studies going on at this time, has funded some studies 4 that will study caliche. And, again, if we're going to err, 5 I think we should be erring on the conservative side at this 6 time. We may have some changes in State regulations later. 7 Again, this will not prohibit totally caliche from the uses 8 of a standard septic system. It will just limit those to 9 having soils that have a perk rate better than 5 minutes -- 10 5 inches per minute. Okay. 11 The other comments I'd like to comment to 12 you, then, is on the issue of the 25-acre exemption. I have 13 received very much and most controversial comments, I guess, 14 as -- as same as with y'all. And I would say I get a very 15 large percentage of people that favor the elimination of 16 this unfair and questionable practice. From an 17 environmental and public health measure, I see no support 18 for the existence of the 25-acre exemption, and that it will 19 provide some level of protection to the public health and 20 the environment. And I can see probably even more argument 21 for the potential for damage to environment and public 22 health. From a regulatory perspective, the -- I cannot 23 support anybody's argument that they will -- a septic 24 system, even if it's on a piece of property greater than 25 25 acres, still must meet State regulations, so the only 72 1 difference we're talking about here is this homeowner is -- 2 is to make an application and pay for a designer's fee in 3 order to put a septic system on his -- on his piece of 4 property. And, at this time, an application fee is in the 5 amount of $200. And I suppose if you can afford 25 acres, 6 you have more ability to be able to pay the $200 application 7 fee than the poor person that has only an acre or less and 8 struggles with life. 9 Also, from the regulatory perspective, we've 10 taken in 32 requests for exemptions this year. We are on 11 track for probably having about 40 for this fiscal year. 12 That's just the people that have come to us and we granted 13 an exception, have done some paperwork. If we say 14 50 percent of those, of the actual septic systems, are going 15 on out there or that we have -- that came to us for an 16 exemption, irregardless of that untold amount of unrecorded 17 exemptions, the County is losing approximately $8,000 a year 18 in additional fees to the County program just on the 19 application process, itself. That, again, could possibly be 20 used to address manpower issues that have been brought to 21 the Court by other people. 22 Now, from a social perspective, I believe it 23 is -- this 25-acre exemption is severely unjust, and that it 24 begs the question or even threatens the enforceability of 25 the application and fee requirements for the remainder 73 1 portion of the landowners in the county. I have proposed a 2 recommendation to y'all. Again, I think some wording that 3 you have seen in an earlier draft from your designated 4 representative, where a permit and a license is required on 5 all tracts of land, regardless of the tract size, should be 6 considered and -- and put in place. I feel like that's 7 the -- my point from your designated representative. If you 8 have any questions, I'll be glad to talk to you. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. John Vanderkam? 10 MR. VANDERKAM: Yes, good morning. I'm a 11 single homeowner, or single -- a homeowner with a single 12 family residence on it. And, again, my source of 13 information is what I read in the newspapers, so it's 14 probably not all-inclusive, but a couple of questions. 15 First of all, the exemptions, what was magic about the -- 16 the date of 19 -- January 1st, 1981? And the second 17 exemption which we're -- you're proposing is if the property 18 hasn't changed ownership since October 1st, 1992. Can 19 somebody enlighten us as to why those two dates are magic? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I believe the '81 21 date -- Charlie, help here, if you can. 22 MR. WIEDENFELD: '81 was when the first Kerr 23 County septic order -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 25 MR. WIEDENFELD: -- was adopted. The first 74 1 county septic order, which required permitting and licensing 2 of septic systems. The year 1992 date is when the County 3 adopted the -- the current septic order, which requires 4 for -- upon the sale of property, that the septic system 5 will be inspected and licensed, if unlicensed at that time. 6 MR. VANDERKAM: Okay. Let me -- let me 7 describe my situation. I have a -- a well on my property. 8 My property is less than -- just slightly less than 2 acres, 9 and it's got its own septic system. I'm not in caliche; 10 I've got good soil percolation. When they -- when they dug 11 the well, the log on the well said I had from -- from the 12 surface, the sand and gravel went down 33 feet. According 13 to the proposed rules, when I go to sell this, since I have 14 my own well, I'm less than 2 1/2 acres, we won't be allowed 15 to have the septic system on there without applying for a 16 variance; is that correct? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, the way the -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're here to get public 19 comments -- 20 MR. VANDERKAM: You are, okay. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- on the proposed rules. We 22 cannot sit here and discuss individual situations. You 23 know, if you want to take that up with your Commissioner or 24 with the U.G.R.A. outside of this, then that's fine. 25 MR. VANDERKAM: Okay. The proposed rules 75 1 allow for exemptions? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 3 MR. VANDERKAM: Okay, that's fine. I guess 4 what I'm -- as I sit here and listen to what the information 5 is, I would think, regardless of the size of the tract -- 6 the percolation, in my mind, would be more important than 7 whether you have 2 1/2 acres or 30 acres. I mean, you could 8 have 30 acres of solid concrete and not have very good 9 percolation. On the other hand, you could have less than an 10 acre with good percolation, and that would be acceptable, in 11 my mind. Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Bennett Jordan? 13 MR. JORDAN: I want to get back on the 14 25 acres. The State requires you have 10 acres. 15 Kerrville's always got to be a little bit better than 16 everybody else, so they raised it to 25 acres. And, I 17 listened to everybody else talk about the other counties. 18 The other counties puts it in caliche, but Kerr County 19 caliche is no good, so we have to put the aerobic -- we have 20 to put the alternative systems in and all that. So, it's 21 always Kerr County. Other counties -- I mean, all 22 surrounding counties can put it in caliche. They're making 23 a study right now, Charlie says, on -- on the caliche, the 24 State is, but the State -- we go by all the rules that the 25 State has, but we always increase them more than all the 76 1 other counties or anything here. All of it comes out of the 2 tax dollars money. 3 We do not have that much pollution -- we 4 don't have any that I know of. The city sewer probably does 5 more right now than any pollution that we have, especially 6 in this dry of weather, which we have had for 10 years now. 7 And I can't understand -- every time we make a new rule, it 8 comes out of the tax dollars that we have. It comes out of 9 the homeowner mostly and everything. We do not have any 10 kind of -- of contamination to amount to anything here. If 11 you do, y'all need to study on it and concentrate on it. 12 They spent $2- or $3 million in Kerrville South. When we 13 get wet weather, then we have contamination, and it didn't 14 do one bit of good. They put the aerobics in. The 15 aerobic's a good system if you maintain them, take care of 16 it. As good as the installer is. 17 What's going to happen, the 25 acres, if we 18 get exempt? It's still got to be done to the State rules. 19 It saves $200. The installer can install it three times 20 faster. It does not cost the man that has 15,000 acres out 21 there $200. You're dictating to 15,000 acres out there when 22 he couldn't contaminate nothing. If he put it in the 23 stream, by the time it gets to us, it's going to be clear. 24 Nobody's going to put it -- no installer will put it in any 25 kind of situation that it would contaminate, not in Kerr 77 1 County. And to make these rules -- I install every day. I 2 could go and put more aerobics in. Well, big deal. I got 3 all the work I can do. Why do you want to create this 4 monster that we can't take care of right now? Do y'all 5 understand what I'm trying to say? The tax dollar comes out 6 of our pocket, and you're creating something that we don't 7 need. We don't have no contamination. This guy got up here 8 and talked about limestone. Limestone's not porous. It 9 takes one year for it to travel one inch down. One year. 10 Okay, that's all I got to say. 11 (Applause.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Barbara Burton? 13 MS. BURTON: Barbara Burton, 235 Guadalupe 14 Street. I'm here as a concerned citizen. I'm glad Charlie 15 Digges spoke ahead of me; he put it all so eloquently. 16 Those were the things I wanted to point out also. I'm 17 opposed to the 25-acre exemption. I think U.G.R.A. needs to 18 have stronger staff, more people behind them to help them do 19 what they need to do. And I, too, am concerned about the 20 caliche's ability to absorb wastewater. Short and sweet. 21 That's it. Thank you. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Janet Robinson? 23 MS. ROBINSON: Good morning, Your Honor, 24 Commissioners. I spent the weekend at one of the camps in 25 west Kerr County with my two nieces, who have completed 78 1 their fourth year of coming here, swimming in waterfronts, 2 synchronized, canoes, everything. I'm sure that most 3 parents who send their children here are entrusting their 4 health and well-being to you, because you're responsible for 5 the health -- public health of Kerr County citizens. And I 6 am opposed to the 25-acre exemption. I think, as Charlie 7 and other people who spoke ahead of me said, that this is a 8 democracy where we need to have the rules apply to everyone 9 equally, and especially when they can be so important in 10 protecting the well-being of children who come to Kerr 11 County to camp. Thank you. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Lawrence Graham? 13 MR. GRAHAM: Thank you very much. I'm Larry 14 Graham from Hunt, Texas, and I represent kind of three sides 15 of the picture. One is the summer camps, one is as a 16 developer, and one as an individual. And, in all three 17 sides, I have found that oftentimes the cure is somewhat 18 worse than the disease itself. And one of the greatest 19 motivations from all three positions is independence from 20 government control, authority, and regulations. With that 21 in mind, looking at the 25-acre exemption, it's kind of like 22 the three blind men looking at the elephant; everyone has a 23 different perspective, but we're all looking at the same 24 animal. 25 So, I think we can agree that protecting the 79 1 river is a priority; however, from my perspective, I've 2 always seen something like a 25-acre exemption as being the 3 comparison of would I rather have one septic tank, even 4 possibly a somewhat marginal one, on a 25-acre tract, or 5 would I rather have 25 acre -- 25 one-acre septic tanks on 6 the same ground? And I have been in hopes that by putting a 7 large exemption, many more people, developers and all of us, 8 would look at it. I would rather sell my property as a 9 100-acre tract or a 25-acre tract than to maximize my income 10 by dividing it up into putting 25 more people on the edge of 11 the river, as opposed to one. Therefore, it seems to me 12 that there's a balance where we're all looking at the same 13 end goal; that if we do not give a large acreage exemption, 14 we're missing an opportunity to minimize the over- 15 concentration of growth in the river corridor. I'd just 16 like to have that registered to balance going in the same 17 direction. Sometimes the cure we come up with creates more 18 problems than we had to start with. Thank you. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Mr. Taylor? 20 MR. TAYLOR: I think I'm going to pass. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right, thank you. Anyone 22 else? All right. That will conclude the public hearing on 23 the proposed Kerr County O.S.S.F. rules. We're going to 24 take a break; we're going to come back at 11 o'clock, and at 25 that time we will take up the next agenda item, which is to 80 1 consider and discuss adoption of the proposed rules. 2 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:45 a.m., and after a brief recess, the 3 regular Commissioners Court meeting was reopened at 11:00 a.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 11 o'clock on Monday, 7 August the 14th. We will reconvene this regular session of 8 Kerr County Commissioners court. Next item on the agenda is 9 Item Number 9, which is consider and discuss adoption of the 10 Rules of Kerr County, Texas, for On-Site Sewage Facilities. 11 Commissioner Griffin, since you're the author of the current 12 draft, I'll turn it over to you. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thank you, Judge. And 14 I would like to first just take a second to thank all of the 15 people who helped on this draft. I got a lot of input. 16 Good inputs, all of them, in most cases. Some we had 17 already considered other ways, but I did get a lot of -- of 18 help, and I think that we're very close now to something 19 that the Court can stand behind as our rules. And, by the 20 way, as many of the public as are here today, I would like 21 to really emphasize that one of the misconceptions has been 22 in the past, I think, that the rules for O.S.S.F. were 23 U.G.R.A. rules, and they are not. They are rules of this 24 Court. And we, the Court, should answer to how those rules 25 are written; that's our responsibility. The U.G.R.A. has a 81 1 designated representative that we use to implement, but it's 2 our responsibility in the Court to write those -- to write 3 these rules, and that responsibility is ours. 4 I have several minor -- what would I consider 5 to be minor word changes. I'd like to go through those so 6 that I can make a motion that we amend the draft to include 7 those minor word changes and typos and that kind of thing. 8 I will refer to it -- to each of these by line number, and I 9 think we can go through them pretty quickly. The line 10 numbers as printed in the draft that was submitted for 11 public review. 12 On Line 6, the word "has" at the end of the 13 line should be stricken. It's superfluous. On Line 10, the 14 word "last" after the word "Legislature" can be stricken. 15 Again, it's superfluous. On Line 28, after the words 16 "pollutant and," add a comma there for proper structure. On 17 Line 40, after the word "orders," about two-thirds of the 18 way through the line, there is a typo comma there that needs 19 to be removed. Then we'll go all the way over to Line 83. 20 It should read, "areas within the" -- add the word "the" -- 21 "incorporated City of Kerrville," comma, "the incorporated 22 City of Ingram, Texas," and then it would read, "and areas 23 regulated by the U.G.R.A. under existing T.N.R.C.C. rules." 24 Line 90, the word at -- the last word in the 25 line is "conversation." That should be "conservation." 82 1 Though some would probably say that the Headwaters was a 2 conversation group, as well. But, anyway, it should be 3 "conservation," not "conversation." Line 102, in front of 4 "Designated Representative," add the word "the" and strike 5 the "s" off of representatives; make it singular, since we 6 only have one under law. On Line 123, strike the words at 7 the end of the line, "complete and submit an..." And 8 substitute for "submit a completed" -- "submit a completed" 9 goes at the end of the line. "...shall submit a completed 10 application," and so on. 11 And Line 124, after the word "fees," add a 12 comma. At the first of Line 125, add "designs" and a comma. 13 And then, after the word "site evaluation," remove that 14 comma. It's a typo. In Line 129, change the word 15 "residence" to "dwelling." In Line 134, strike the words 16 "being held responsible for," and substitute "complying 17 with." On Line 139, after the word "accurate," add the 18 words "and certified." And in that same line, at the end 19 of -- toward the end of the line, strike the word "will" and 20 substitute "may." On Line 142, at the first of the line -- 21 toward the first of the line, strike the word "person," and 22 make that word "owner." 23 Line 144, strike the words "causing nuisance 24 conditions or." And later in that line, after the Number 3, 25 change the word "unless" to "if," just for parallel sentence 83 1 structure -- sentence structure there. Line 145, strike the 2 words "causing nuisance," and continuing on Line 146, strike 3 "conditions are." Conditions are. Line 153, at the end of 4 the line there is an extra space before the period. Just 5 remove that; it's a typo. On Line 167, remove the words "or 6 owner's designated agent." On Line 169, strike the words 7 "an inspection of the O.S.S.F.," and add the words in its 8 place, "a transfer of the license to operate." 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A transfer? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: "A transfer of the 11 license to operate." And after the word "received" in that 12 line, add the word "written." Okay. Line 172, second word, 13 change -- strike "planned" and make that "platted." Line 14 178, after "Kerr County," add the words "Commissioners 15 Court." 16 Judge, I think I'm going to make -- after 17 what we heard a little earlier, I think we need to take the 18 purple-coated piping out. What -- do you think we ought to 19 do that now, or -- because I -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would be in favor of that. 21 I think it's -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- because there are 23 too many questions about it and, we can always amend the 24 order later to add that in when we know that the materials 25 are available. So, strike all of Lines 180 and 181. On 84 1 Line 185, the "L" there should be -- the definitions, it's 2 Paragraph M; that was just a typo. Lines 209, 210, 211, and 3 212, where we define the owner's representative or 4 designated agent, that is no longer referred to, so that 5 definition can be removed. Strike all of those lines, 209, 6 210, 211, 212. On Line 248, the -- the word "the" before 7 "Designated Representative" should be -- not be capitalized. 8 That's a lowercase. 251 -- Line 251, about two-thirds of 9 the way down the line, the word "order" should be 10 capitalized. 11 Line 272, after the word "County," add "or 12 the State." "Or the State" after the word "County." On 13 274 -- actually, and Lines 276 and 277, remove the 14 parentheses around the numbers. This is just for parallel 15 structure. Those should just be "1., 2., 3." In Line 276, 16 strike the word "seek" at the first, and capitalize "Civil." 17 In 277, strike the word "take," capitalize "All." And then 18 strike the "seek" later in that line, just to make that 19 whole paragraph read correctly. And that's it. And I would 20 make the motion that we amend the draft -- this is not to 21 adopt it, this is to amend the draft to include those 22 changes I just went through. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 25 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the draft 85 1 order adopting rules be amended as recited by Commissioner 2 Griffin. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 3 favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: And the draft order is so 8 amended. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now -- so, the last 10 order of business, which may take a little longer than that, 11 is that I would also make the amendment that the draft 12 order, as amended, be adopted by the Court. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second that motion. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 15 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the draft 16 order, as amended, adopting Rules of Kerr County, Texas, for 17 On-Site Sewage Facilities be adopted by the Kerr County 18 Commissioners Court. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to propose 20 another amendment, Judge. Couple comments with respect to 21 the -- the draft order that's before the public and the 22 Court. First of all, I would say to my colleague, I really 23 appreciate the amount of work you put into it. It's super; 24 you did a great job, and you have managed to take out a lot 25 of the ambiguous language and redundant language and put it 86 1 in an order that is understandable. I, for one, however, on 2 this Court am not in favor of an exemption for 25 acres or 3 higher. In addition to all that has been said by all of the 4 speakers in regard to the 25-acre exemption, I think one 5 thing has yet to be said, and that is it sets up a class 6 distinction. It sets up a distinction that says to the -- 7 to the county at large that if you are an owner of property 8 25 acres or larger, you are in a class by yourself, and we 9 believe that you are above these rules, and therefore you 10 are -- you won't need to be -- don't need to follow these 11 rules. 12 And, conversely, it says that if you are not 13 a property owner of 25 acres or greater, then we think that 14 we need to regulate you and we need to see what you're doing 15 and we need to have you file an application and we need to 16 inspect what you have done. We trust those with 25 acres or 17 greater, but we don't trust those who own 25 acres or less. 18 And that, I think, is incorrect, it is inappropriate, and I 19 think, therefore, like I said earlier, in addition to all of 20 the other arguments for exempting -- for removing the 21 25-acre or larger exemption, I think that one, in my mind, 22 is just as important, and I seek to have the rules amended 23 by striking out Paragraph B -- 10-B, eliminating the 25-acre 24 exemption, thereby making it possible -- or mandatory for 25 all applicants who want to have a septic system in Kerr 87 1 County to apply for it, have it inspected, follow the rules, 2 and so forth and so on. I don't see that there's any 3 necessity for an exemption, and that's the nature of my 4 motion to amend. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can we discuss it at 6 this time on that? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We may. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Having no objection to 9 removing paragraph 10-B on my own, I would like to discuss 10 what the impact of that is. Because, frankly, the arguments 11 that we've heard -- and the reason that I don't -- I'm not 12 against striking it, that paragraph, is that I don't know 13 what it does for any particular class of business or 14 individual landowner. This applies -- remember, 10-B is a 15 single O.S.S.F. on a -- for a single dwelling. I don't see 16 how that applies to a camp, for example. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't see how that 19 affects a camp by having it in there one way or the other. 20 To me, this paragraph has little meaning as it is. So, I 21 would not be -- I personally am not against it, though we've 22 heard arguments for and against, but I -- and you make good 23 arguments against in this case, Bill. But I'd like to hear 24 some discussion out of the other members of the Court, 25 perhaps, on what does it mean? I don't see this doing 88 1 anything for the camps, and at the same time, the way the -- 2 the way the rest of the order is written, over time these 3 would come under that, anyway. These would -- the exemption 4 wouldn't apply. Because if you alter a system, if you put 5 in a new system, you have to come under the order as -- as 6 written. You see, my point is -- is I don't see what this 7 does for anybody. It doesn't hurt anything with it in 8 there. That's the reason I left it in my -- in the draft. 9 But I don't see that it does anything for any particular 10 class of ownership one way or the other. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if it doesn't 12 do any of the other things that we've heard are possible, it 13 does set up a class distinction. It says that anybody with 14 25 acres or greater is in a class by themselves, and thereby 15 are above the rules that apply to people who have 16 25 acres -- less than 25 acres. And if there are no other 17 reasons to oppose it, I would oppose on it that basis. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me make a couple 19 other points, just primarily for the benefit of the public, 20 but also for the benefit of the Court, is that none of these 21 rules are retroactive. Nobody's going to start stomping 22 through your property, whether you got 1 acre or 2,500 23 acres, and start stomping through your property to say, 24 "Let's see if we can find a septic system that's not in 25 compliance with these rules as written." It's very clear -- 89 1 up in the front, Paragraph 10, it's very clear that these 2 rules are not retroactive. And there are other exclusions 3 for pre-'81 and -- and pre-'92, so that this is actually a 4 thing that moves forward from this point. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, and I 6 understand that. I understand and agree with it. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And those words were 8 carefully crafted to make sure that was so, that nobody's 9 going to have to go back and rip out a system, be they a 10 camp or an individual homeowner or anybody. But, if a 11 system fails, under the rules -- without Paragraph 10, under 12 the rules, if a system fails or if you decide to expand it 13 because you're going to add another house on the same system 14 or whatever else, you've got to go through the licensing 15 process. And I don't think that's too onerous, myself. So, 16 that's -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a comment. 18 I disagree with y'all. I think that -- I think -- and why 19 the number 25, I'm not real sure. I think that was just a 20 number that we grabbed out of the air many years ago. But, 21 I think that there is a point somewhere, and 25 acres is a 22 good point, that says -- and I heard that argument here just 23 a little bit this morning -- that says that if you have 24 25 acres, then it's extremely more difficult to affect the 25 neighbors, more difficult to -- this particular way it's 90 1 worded here, to affect the neighbors, the water streams. 2 And once you get -- in my mind -- in my mind, I see this as 3 more of a private property rights issue than anything. 4 The -- your class argument, that -- see, I don't -- I don't 5 get that at all. That sounds like the Republican/Democrat 6 convention argument here. Now we're getting into 7 touchy-feely things that mean absolutely nothing, and that 8 we're going to separate each other by classification. That 9 doesn't have anything to do with it. And I think anyone 10 that -- that -- again, I heard it said this morning. Anyone 11 that can afford 25 acres seems to take better care of 12 things, their own property; they're not out there causing 13 problems on purpose. I mean, they're going to take care of 14 their property. I -- it needs to stay in there. The State 15 says 10. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: State says it can be 17 10. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can be 10. I heard 19 someone say -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They don't mandate 21 that there are any exemptions. It says you may -- you may 22 exempt 10 acres. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if -- Mr. Colvin 24 just walked in the door. What if he has 10,000 acres out 25 here, which they have had at one time, and he wants to build 91 1 a house right in the middle of that 10,000 acres? You're 2 going to require him to go through all the process? Not in 3 my mind, he shouldn't have to. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He is going to do -- 5 he would have to do everything except the application, 6 anyway, right? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. By 8 State law. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I don't see any 10 reason -- I mean, I don't necessarily see the reason -- you 11 know, if I've only got 2 1/2 acres, I'm very concerned about 12 my property, too. I'm going to take care of my 2 1/2 acres 13 just as though it were somebody else's 25. So, I can also 14 see that side of the argument. And I don't know -- since 15 this is not being done retroactively, since it's not being 16 applied retroactively, I don't know what the impact of 17 having Paragraph 10-B here, whatever it was -- 10-B, yeah. 18 I'm not sure what the impact of that is, anyway. So, I'm 19 not against removing it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see one issue that 21 just -- just a comment in response to my colleague. This is 22 not about penalizing those who own 10,000 acres, or not 23 penalizing them, or laying the penalty or the burden on 24 those who own and live on less than 25 acres. This is about 25 doing our dead-level best to prevent pollution. That's what 92 1 it's about. And whether you pollute on 100 acres, 10,000 2 acres, or half an acre, you have polluted. And if it has a 3 detrimental or deleterious effect on neighbors or people 4 downstream, that's not right. Regardless of how much 5 acreage you have. That's how I feel about it. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further comments or 7 questions? We've had a motion made by Commissioner Williams 8 to delete Paragraph 10-B, which is Lines 129 through 136, 9 and I'm sure that the Commissioner's motion also included 10 deleting Paragraph D-1, which is a reference back to B. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Which one is it? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: D-1, the following page. 14 Line 142. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it did. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have a second to the 17 Commissioner's motion? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll second it. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion's been made by 20 Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, 21 that we delete Paragraph 10-B, again, which is Lines 129 22 through 136, and Paragraph D-1, which begins on Line 142 and 23 continues until 143, and renumber accordingly. Is there any 24 further -- are there any further questions or comments? If 25 not, all in favor of the motion, raise your right hand. 93 1 (Commissioners Williams and Griffin indicated by raised hand that they were in favor of 2 the motion.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 5 (Commissioner Baldwin indicated by raised hand that he was against the motion.) 6 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I still have a motion 9 on the table to adopt. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Did you have anything else, 11 Commissioner Williams? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. The rest -- the 13 remainder of the draft is fine. I just have one comment, 14 and it is a reiteration of what Commissioner Griffin said 15 earlier. Couldn't have said it more eloquently. These are 16 Kerr County's rules, these are not U.G.R.A.'s rules. 17 Although U.G.R.A. or any other agency that this Court 18 designates is going to be the designated representative and 19 given the responsibility, awesome though it may be, to 20 enforce them, these are Kerr County's rules. And I, for 21 one, probably because I have a longtime -- had a longtime 22 association with U.G.R.A., really sort of resent them being 23 castigated in the public eye for enforcing Kerr County's 24 rules. And the sooner that we can start addressing these 25 rules as our rules, and not their rules, I think the better 94 1 we are. In terms of the taxpayer paying, this program 2 should be set up so that -- that those who utilize O.S.S.F. 3 rules or have a need to utilize them have the responsibility 4 to pay through fees and other -- and other -- other methods 5 of utilization for purposes of -- of administering this 6 program. That's all the comments I have. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: The motion on the table is to 8 adopt the proposed rules of Kerr County, Texas, for on-site 9 sewage facilities, as amended. Are there any further 10 questions or comments? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One quick comment, 12 Judge. These kind of rules are living documents. They 13 should be living documents. We can amend them. They are -- 14 again, to beat this dead horse, perhaps -- you know, these 15 are our rules, and we can amend them. If something doesn't 16 work right and we need to put a paragraph in or take 17 something out, we can do it. That's our responsibility. 18 And this is not something we, you know, if we do approve 19 them, put over on the shelf and forget about. We can -- we 20 can make changes to it, and we should as times and 21 conditions change that might affect us. So, with that in 22 mind, I just want to make sure that everybody understands 23 that we don't just throw this in a drawer, you know, and 24 forget about them. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor of the motion, 95 1 raise your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank 6 everyone for being here. 7 (Discussion off the record.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we have one 9 more -- two more items that relate actually to O.S.S.F., not 10 rules, but enforcement. We'll next take up Item Number 10, 11 which is consider and discuss granting a variance to the 12 Kerr County Septic Rule 5.03(e), which prohibits the 13 placement of a septic system in the floodway, for the owners 14 of Lot 4, Riverbend Estates, Wharton Road. Commissioner 15 Williams. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to 17 introduce it, Judge, because the files were referred over to 18 me by the designated representative for enforcement. This 19 has to do with floodplain -- has to do with septic in the 20 floodplain, and I believe the owners of these lots seek to 21 have the Court grant them a variance to place septic tanks 22 in the floodway. Mr. Wiedenfeld of U.G.R.A. has sent the 23 files over. I have looked at them. Needless to say, I have 24 some problems with the issue, so let's see if we can get 25 into it. Charlie? 96 1 MR. WIEDENFELD: Good morning again, 2 Commissioners, Your Honor. The -- this is being brought to 3 you -- to y'all because the Kerr County Septic Rules at this 4 time exclusively prohibits the placement of septic systems 5 in the floodway. And -- but there are provisions in the 6 State of Texas rules for placement of septic systems in 7 flood-prone areas. They do not define it as being floodway 8 or 100-year flood. So, we're here to -- the owner has -- is 9 here to ask -- is requesting an exception to the Kerr County 10 Regulations, that a septic system be placed in the floodway. 11 The floodway was -- was determined by an 12 engineer, Vordenbaum out of Fredericksburg. Mr. Blankenship 13 and his son are -- there's two different pieces of property 14 adjacent to each other, and there's actually two cases 15 before you this morning. They have got the engineering 16 documents and designed their home on stilts and met the 17 permits of the floodplain permit -- permitting requirements, 18 y'all's Kerr County Floodplain permitting requirements, and 19 thus they're at the point now where they would like to 20 install a septic system. It has taken a little longer to 21 get the planning materials for approving a permit. 22 I had represented to the Blankenships from 23 Day 1 that there was provisions in the State regulations for 24 placement of septic systems in a flood-prone area. It would 25 have to be an engineered system, and the planning materials 97 1 and designs and those kinds of things would definitely have 2 to be presented to me and be satisfactory, where I could 3 then make a recommendation to the Court in support of having 4 a septic system within the floodway. And, at this time, I 5 will represent that, and I do recommend that he has met all 6 requirements, and I feel satisfied that his septic system 7 that is being proposed will provide the safety and 8 protection to the Guadalupe River and the groundwater that 9 the Kerr County rules are intended to do. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Charlie, I -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm sorry. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In making that 14 statement, Mr. Wiedenfeld, you are -- you've answered one of 15 my questions, and that is whether or not this topic or this 16 variance percolated all the way up through the ranks of the 17 designated representative, or whether or not Mr. Brown had 18 an opportunity to rule on it before it got to Commissioners 19 Court. You're saying, in fact, that you're making a 20 recommendation to grant the variance, and you're asking us 21 to concur with your recommendation; is that correct? 22 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. Having 24 said that, then, I want to refer you to T.N.R.C.C. 25 Regulatory Guidance, which you were kind enough to provide 98 1 me a copy of, and dated April 1997. In granting a variance, 2 T.N.R.C.C. says, "In order to grant a variance, we feel that 3 a Professional Engineer or Registered Sanitarian must 4 demonstrate the three requirements found in Paragraph 5 285.30(h), which state the locations of the system will not 6 result in damage to the system during a flood, the location 7 of the O.S.S.F. will not result in contamination from the 8 O.S.S.F. during flooding, and the tank will not float during 9 a flood. Since the flow within the floodway has greater 10 velocity and has greater erosive and destructive powers than 11 flow outside of the floodway, the designer has a burden of 12 proof to demonstrate the three previously mentioned items." 13 It also says, "the designer must demonstrate 14 that all components will be completely buried without adding 15 fill, and nonburied components, e.g., alarm, junction boxes, 16 compressors, are elevated above the 100-year flood 17 elevation." Having read those files, I don't see that in 18 the file. 19 MR. WIEDENFELD: They were satisfactorily 20 addressed to -- and what commonly has been done in -- 21 throughout the state. The -- they're putting a -- in order 22 to protect against flotation, they are concreted -- going to 23 concrete the tanks, and to insure that there is no septic 24 effluent to get into the flood waters, the tank lids are 25 sealed. Everything is subsurface, as required. And 99 1 flotation, again -- well, the other one is, like I say, 2 concreted around the tank. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The designer must 4 demonstrate that all components will be completely buried 5 without adding fill, and that nonburied items such as 6 alarms, junction boxes, and compressors are elevated above 7 the 100-year flood elevation. To the best of your 8 knowledge, where is the 100-year flood elevation in relation 9 to this particular property? How high is it? If you were 10 to draw a line, where would it be? 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: It's approximately 4 to -- 12 4 feet above the -- the ground level at this time. His 13 house is built a good foot above the 100-year flood -- above 14 the 100-year flood elevation. The first floor of that house 15 is -- is 1 foot above the 100-year flood elevation. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you say that 17 this is equivalent, in terms of height, to the horse farm 18 and stables which are almost across the road, Wharton Road, 19 from these two particular lots? 20 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. The 100-year 21 flood elevation, as delineated on maps, shows it to be on 22 the south side of Wharton Road, yes, sir. So, it's very 23 close to the horse farm. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've had folks who 25 live in that area who've reliably told me they can recall 100 1 the flood of '78, when the water went almost up into the 2 stable area of the horse farm across the road. 3 MR. WIEDENFELD: And -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And because of the 5 location of those lots, which the river is at a bend, the 6 water comes around that bend with some pretty decent 7 velocity. 8 MR. WIEDENFELD: I support your findings and 9 your -- your thoughts. But we had -- his application has 10 met the Kerr County Floodplain Order, and has -- appears to 11 meet the intent of the Kerr County Septic Regulations. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let's talk 13 about for a moment, then, the -- the Declaration of 14 Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions for Riverbend 15 Estates. 16 MR. WIEDENFELD: I am aware that there are 17 some conflicts that are in that, but I don't know that they 18 are appropriately addressed by the Kerr County Septic 19 Program. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they've got to 21 be addressed by somebody. I'm not sure who's the proper 22 authority to address them, but the Declaration of Covenants, 23 Conditions, and Restrictions says, in part, "The use of all 24 lots in the subdivision is limited to recreational purposes. 25 No residential structures shall be allowed on any lot. No 101 1 house trailer, mobile home, or double-wide may ever be 2 located on said land. No septic tanks, drainfields, 3 toilets, nor sewer systems may be constructed without the 4 approval of U.G.R.A. or whoever the designated 5 representative might be. No water well, water system, or 6 other water supply shall be constructed without the approval 7 of the proper authority. These restrictions are permanent, 8 but may be altered, amended, or modified by consent of 9 two-thirds of the lot owners, each lot owner having one 10 vote. Temporary means less than 30 days. Restrictions may 11 be enforced by injunction, temporary or permanent," blah, 12 blah, blah. My question is, I don't find anything in the 13 files that tells me that those covenants have been amended. 14 Can you address that? 15 MR. WIEDENFELD: I don't have any knowledge, 16 either, that they have been amended. I feel like Kerr 17 County's designated representative has fulfilled the 18 provisions in there that address septic -- the septic issues 19 and the issues of recreational vehicles, and -- as it would 20 relate to floodplain issues and/or construction of the home 21 as it relates to floodplain. Again, the responsibility of 22 y'all's designated representative or Floodplain 23 Administrator, I believe, have been issued. Now, the 24 enforceability and who enforces the placement of -- in other 25 regards, I don't feel -- 102 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Two separate issues 2 here? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they probably 4 are. They probably are. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They're totally 6 separate. I mean, there's one that -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They probably are. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm not sure they're totally 9 separate, because I'm concerned about the -- the position of 10 the County if we grant a variance to allow septic systems 11 for residences in areas where residences are prohibited. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By deed restriction. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: By deed restriction. And I 14 would be willing to request an opinion on that issue from 15 the County Attorney's office, because I think that we -- we 16 need to have a clear understanding of the jeopardy we may 17 place Commissioners Court and the County in if we seem to, 18 by implication, give permission to someone to violate a deed 19 restriction. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, and that the -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would vote to do that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the reason I 23 referenced it, because it does tie back to us unless we have 24 proof in the application -- supporting the application, that 25 that has -- those deed restrictions have been amended in the 103 1 manner set forth in the deed restrictions. I didn't find 2 that proof in the file. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Or unless we have an opinion 4 from our County Attorney to the effect that we are not -- 5 not in any jeopardy by -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By doing so. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- by granting a variance in 8 the face of an apparent violation of the existing deed 9 restrictions. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to disagree 11 with y'all a minute. I think what -- what our Court 12 is authorized to do is to do the things that Charlie's laid 13 out before us. These deed restriction things, that's a 14 private issue. And if -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Doesn't that have to 16 be -- would you not agree that that, I think -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Maybe -- well, if 19 that's not to be taken care of first, before we consider -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, I don't -- I 21 think that's something that we have absolutely nothing to do 22 with. It -- if the community disagrees, if these people 23 break those covenants, they need to go to J.P. court and 24 settle it between themselves. I don't think this Court has 25 anything to do with it. 104 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would certainly agree that 2 this Court has nothing to do with the enforcement. What I'm 3 concerned about is this Court taking action which, by its 4 action, flies in the face of -- you know, of deed 5 restrictions of which we have knowledge. I'm not at all 6 going to get this Court involved in enforcement, but I want 7 to make sure that if we do take action on the variance, that 8 if we grant it, that we are not subjecting ourselves to any 9 additional liability because we know about the deed 10 restrictions. All I'm concerned about is our potential 11 downside. I'm not going to get us in the enforcement mode. 12 Don't want to be. Never have been. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either, and I 14 would like to know that we have addressed that issue, that 15 we have no contingent liability if we grant a variance in 16 the face of known deed restrictions. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I -- you know, I 18 can settle that. I'm not going to vote for it, so that's 19 just a moot point anyway. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That makes two of us. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I would agree that 22 we should get an opinion on the face of the variance, 23 itself, considering that -- I mean, the request for the 24 variance, except I haven't quite understood Mr. Phillips' 25 write-up yet, to make sure he covers all three of those 105 1 issues that are in the T.N.R.C.C. guidance. If that's 2 covered, then technically the request for variance appears, 3 on the face of it, to be -- to have merit. However, I'm not 4 willing to vote on the variance until we have an opinion of 5 what the liability -- contingent liability of that may be. 6 Should we ask the Judge to get an opinion? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can do that. Is it the 8 consensus of the Court that we table this item until we have 9 an opinion from the County Attorney as to the advisability 10 of our granting a variance in the face of apparent 11 violations of deed restrictions? I think -- why don't we 12 have a motion to that effect? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would second 16 Commissioner Griffin's motion to seek guidance from the 17 County Attorney on this particular issue and table these 18 until we get that guidance, and bring them back at a later 19 date. Somebody wants to speak, Judge. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion made by Commissioner 21 Griffin that we table Items 10 and 11 and seek an opinion 22 from the Kerr County Attorney as to the advisability of the 23 Commissioners Court granting a variance to the O.S.S.F. 24 rules for residential structures that would apparently 25 violate deed restrictions against such construction. You 106 1 had a comment, sir? 2 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Yes, sir. I'm Don 3 Blankenship, Your Honor, Commissioners. I have a copy 4 showing that two-thirds -- actually, unanimous vote did 5 occur to allow building on there. Not mobile homes, but 6 structured homes -- constructed homes. That's what we have 7 now. We've been waiting several months to try to move in 8 there, and we're faced with a double expense of trying to 9 maintain two homes. We can't sell the one we're living in 10 until we get over there. We're nearly 800 foot from the 11 river, two of us. We need desperately to move in there. We 12 have -- if two people are going to pollute that river, then 13 somebody's going to have to shoot 10,000 deer that run up 14 and down that river. We need desperately to move in there. 15 There is -- and there was a vote allowing us to build there. 16 We have built there; we've complied, as Mr. Wiedenfeld 17 explained to the Court, 100 percent all the way. We've 18 spent nearly $180,000 now. We're citizens here. We can't 19 move in here because of some of these little things. You 20 know, I wish you would reconsider that we could get the 21 septic tanks going so we could move in there. Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. But, with 23 all due respect, Mr. Blankenship, if that -- and I don't 24 dispute your word, but if you have the consent of the other 25 property owners, that should be a part of the file. 107 1 MR. BLANKENSHIP: It was filed, sir. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it was in the 3 file, it wouldn't have been an issue. 4 MR. BLANKENSHIP: We got the file from the 5 County -- from the County Clerk. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't see it. 7 MR. BLANKENSHIP: Well, sir, that's where we 8 got it, and I'll bring you a copy of it, if I may. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It should be in the 10 file if that's the case. 11 MR. BLANKENSHIP: That's where we obtained it 12 from, from the file. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion was made and seconded. 14 Any further comments or questions? If not, all in favor, 15 raise your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We'll table 20 these two pending receipt of our opinion. Next item we'll 21 take up is Item Number 17, consider and discuss resolution 22 authorizing Kerr County to submit a grant request to the 23 Texas Community Development Program in the amount of 24 $284,000, and authorizing the County Judge to execute all 25 documents requested in connection with such grant request. 108 1 Linda and Steve, y'all want to come forward and explain this 2 to us? While they're coming forward, I'll remind the Court, 3 this issue came before us in December. Mr. Steve Chapman, 4 the owner of Chapman Building Systems, at that time was 5 seeking to purchase a building in Center Point and use part 6 of the funds available through the State of Texas in order 7 to renovate that building. That purchase did not 8 materialize. He has now located an additional piece of 9 property and is coming before us again for our assistance in 10 moving his business from Dallas to Kerrville. If I may, 11 very quickly, the program we're contemplating requires Kerr 12 County to submit the grant request technically, and 13 substantively Kerr County would then be in the position of 14 repaying the grant request. We would enter into an 15 agreement with Mr. Graham (sic) where he agrees to make the 16 payments to us for payment to the State. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To who? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: To the -- to whom? Mr. 19 Chapman makes payments to us, we make the payments to the 20 State. 21 MS. COSTLEY: Yes. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: There's also some commercial 23 financing involved. The County would technically and 24 legally be the owner of the property, which would be subject 25 to a lien in favor of Wells Fargo Bank. It is, however, a 109 1 good mechanism to bring Mr. Chapman and his business and 2 approximately 27 jobs to Kerr County at an area and a time 3 when we are earnestly seeking additional nonpolluting 4 substantive businesses. So, at this time, I'll let Linda 5 Costley give us a little more description of the property. 6 Linda? 7 MS. COSTLEY: Judge, Commissioners, thank you 8 for having me here today. My name is Linda Costley. I'm 9 from Buna, Texas, and I'm a grant writer and administrator. 10 I write grants specifically for the Texas Community 11 Development Block Grant Program and the Texas Capital Fund. 12 And we're here today asking the Court to pass a resolution 13 to support an application by the County that will support 14 Mr. Chapman's expansion into Kerr County and the creation of 15 27 jobs. And, as the Judge explained just now, the County 16 is required to make the application. They make it on behalf 17 of a specific business, and the specific business has to 18 agree to create a certain amount of jobs, and 51 percent of 19 those jobs have to benefit low- and moderate-income persons 20 in Kerr County. So, with that, if y'all have any questions, 21 I'd be more than happy to try and answer them. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you just 23 answered my question. In your document here -- the 24 documents, it says the purpose of the program is to provide 25 funds for Texans with funding available for projects that 110 1 will principally benefit persons of low and moderate income. 2 So, it's required -- 51 percent? Is that what you said? 3 MS. COSTLEY: Yes, sir. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are these just words, 5 or are y'all intending on hiring 51 percent of people that 6 are low to moderate income? 7 MS. COSTLEY: Very -- very definitely are 8 required to hire 51 percent low- to moderate-income people. 9 The money comes from the U. S. Department of Housing and 10 Urban Development and flows through the State of Texas to 11 Kerr County, and it is a national objective by the federal 12 government that the funds go to benefit low- and 13 moderate-income families, so that's something that will have 14 to be met. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Costley, would 16 you tell the Court the -- the results of the public hearing 17 you conducted? I assume you conducted it, right? 18 MS. COSTLEY: Yes. Friday afternoon I came 19 and conducted a public hearing at 5 o'clock, and I was the 20 only one there. So, nobody commented as to opposed or in 21 favor of the project. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I will point out to the 24 Court, so there's no -- no confusion, that part of the 25 application is a commitment on the part of the Court to 111 1 contribute approximately $8,200 in-kind over three years, 2 which is composed of attorney's fees, audit fees, notices, 3 and other expenses that add to the attractiveness of the 4 proposal to the Texas Capital Fund evaluators. The 5 attorney's fees, et cetera, will be handled in-house through 6 the new civil capabilities of our County Attorney's office, 7 so there is little, if any, out-of-pocket expense on the 8 part of the Commissioners Court. 9 Let me also say for the record that I've just 10 passed around to the other Commissioners a letter from Don 11 Kendrick, chairman of the board of the Kerrville Economic 12 Development Foundation, which states the Kerrville Economic 13 Development Foundation recommends that the Commissioners 14 Court approve the request of Chapman Building Products to 15 apply for funds through the Texas Capital Funds, to be used 16 for the construction of their plant. Many of us have grown 17 to know the Chapmans well over the past nine months, and we 18 believe that this is the type of business and people that we 19 desire to bring to our community. We pledge to do what we 20 can to help make this project successful. There also is a 21 letter of intent or commitment letter from Wells Fargo Bank 22 for private financing in the amount of -- I believe it's 23 $291,000. 24 MS. COSTLEY: I think that's right. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, any further -- any 112 1 questions or comments? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do we need a motion? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move 4 that the Court authorize Kerr County to submit a grant 5 request to the Texas Community Development Program in the 6 amount of $284,000 and authorize County Judge to execute all 7 documents requested in connection with such grant request. 8 And -- 9 MS. COSTLEY: Mr. Williams, may I make a -- 10 there was a mistake in the resolution. In the top of the 11 resolution it says 284, but down in the center of the 12 resolution it says 286. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm sorry, I can't 14 hear you. 15 MS. COSTLEY: At the top part of the 16 resolution, it says $284,000, but in the center of the 17 resolution where it breaks out how much money is to be used 18 for construction and how much is to be used for 19 administration, the total adds up to 286, so the amount that 20 you need to apply for to the Capital Fund is $286,000. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I amend my motion to 22 make it $286,000. 23 MS. COSTLEY: Thank you. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Et cetera, et cetera, 25 et cetera. 113 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion's been made. Do we 2 have a second? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 5 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 6 authorize Kerr County to submit a grant request to the Texas 7 Community Development Program in the amount of $286,000 on 8 behalf of Chapman Building Products, and authorize County 9 Judge to execute all documents requested in connection with 10 such grant request. Any further comments or questions? If 11 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 16 MS. COSTLEY: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is your deadline 18 for application? 19 MS. COSTLEY: 25th of August. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll next take up Item 22 Number 6, which is consider and approve road name changes 23 for privately maintained roads in Precinct 4, in accordance 24 with the 911 guidelines. Commissioner Griffin. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. This is an item 114 1 that -- similar to which we're going to see a lot of, I 2 think, over the next few months. These are all private 3 roads. The citizens have worked with 911, and Road and 4 Bridge Department has databased all of this. And, you'll 5 notice in the package there that all these road name 6 changes -- most of them were -- didn't have names, but 7 they're being given names, and they're all private roads. 8 There are no public roads and there are no public hearings 9 required. The names are in the package there, and I would 10 make the motion that we approve them. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 14 the road name changes for privately maintained roads in 15 Precinct 4, as described in the materials in our agenda 16 book. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 17 favor, raise your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 7 is 22 to consider and discuss a policy and procedure for 23 evaluating the status of roads in the county road system. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. This is one I 25 put on to get the issue up before the Court. Not 115 1 necessarily to take action today, but in -- over the last 2 couple of years, I have noticed that every time I -- I've 3 been able to review road status with -- with Mr. Odom, or 4 that we've had road issues for major maintenance come up, 5 that there -- there are, I know in my precinct, at least two 6 or three roads which are really nothing more than driveways 7 that are in the county maintenance system. I have done a 8 little -- just a cursory look at the statutes, and where the 9 roads are -- where public roads are in the county 10 maintenance system, there is -- there does appear to be a 11 procedure and a process by which we can remove the roads 12 from the county maintenance system. It doesn't affect the 13 fact that they're public roads or anything else, or 14 anybody's rights to them or anything, but we can pursue 15 taking roads off of maintenance, and it would appear that 16 that's the thing to do. 17 Now, I've heard an argument that says, well, 18 if you take roads out of the system, then we lose some of 19 our State subsidy. I've talked that over with -- with 20 Mr. Odom, and that's a little bit like saying, "I better go 21 spend a lot of money at Walmart because they got a big sale 22 on." It does not cover -- the State supplement doesn't come 23 anywhere near covering what it costs to maintain any length 24 of road. So, it's -- if we've got it in the system, we want 25 to get credit for it, because that does help our cost a 116 1 little bit, but that's never a reason to consider taking a 2 road in or leaving a road that shouldn't be in the system, 3 and that's what I'm driving at here. 4 My suggestion would be something like -- and, 5 of course, the Commissioner can get with the Road and Bridge 6 Department anytime they want to, but I think when they come 7 up for major maintenance -- when the road comes up for the 8 major 5-year or 7-year cycle, whatever it is, that at least 9 at that point, that -- based primarily on input from the 10 Road and Bridge Department, that the appropriate 11 Commissioner can review the status of that road, and if it 12 appears that there's a road that's in the system that 13 shouldn't be, through some -- something that happened years 14 and years ago, perhaps well-intentioned, but if it shouldn't 15 be in the system, we ought to have some way of seeing if we 16 can get it off of maintenance. 17 And the first step in that would be to ask 18 our County Attorney, I think, for an opinion on -- because I 19 went through the Transportation Code, 251 -- Chapter 251, 20 and there's a little bit of ambiguity when you talk about 21 abandonment and -- and discontinuances, and I don't know -- 22 they use a whole bunch of different terms and they seem to 23 define them pretty well, and then they intermix them when 24 they get into -- so it's probably case law that's going to 25 determine whether and how you do this. But, I just think 117 1 it's something that's -- that it's time that we straighten 2 it out and get roads off the system that shouldn't be in 3 there. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I know I've heard 6 Commissioner Baldwin say we've got some driveways that we 7 maintain, and -- and there's no need that -- that we 8 continue that in some cases, perhaps. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want you to know, I 10 didn't put them on the list when I was a Commissioner. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I know. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I inherited it. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And in some cases, 14 it's just -- and I know the statute says you can shorten the 15 length of the road that you maintain, so you stick up a sign 16 and we leave it just like it is, and if those homeowners 17 decide that -- the landowners decide that, hey, since the 18 County's not going to maintain it, we'd like to make it a 19 private road, come in -- and that's a separate process, but 20 we know how to do that. We can -- Ace Reid is a good 21 example. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or if you had a long 23 road with ten homes in the first two miles, mile, and then 24 from then on it's just one house back there or two houses 25 back there -- 118 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You know which one I'm 2 talking about. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I do. There's 4 two houses. You can abandon -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just that piece. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- just that portion. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. That's exactly 8 right. Put up a county maintenance -- I talked to Mr. Odom 9 and said, How about let's make up some more "County 10 Maintenance Ends" signs? 'Cause if we work this the way we 11 should, we'll have need of them. But, anyway, I would -- 12 this is just for information and thinking purposes right 13 now. I'd like to really come back to this, and maybe we can 14 address it as a policy, but I asked Len to be here this 15 morning just so we can hear what the logic of it is, and 16 that is to -- and ask for an opinion on whether or not and 17 how we can do that. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Leonard, do you have anything 19 you want to offer on this topic? 20 MR. ODOM: No, sir. I -- if I understood 21 what Commissioner Griffin has said, I think we should look 22 at it. I think there's some situations that -- that we 23 shouldn't be in, and that's happened years ago. And when we 24 were unitized, I believe that it wasn't -- everybody was 25 trying to get the unitized system in, and it was not an 119 1 issue at the time; it was an issue of trying to get things 2 fixed. And I -- I think we're at that point now, we should 3 redefine what the policy is and use our tax dollars in a 4 better position other than private driveways in some cases. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, it's my -- my 6 understanding you'll bring this back after you've got -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- your legal opinion? At 9 this time, I want to ask the Commissioners whether they wish 10 to come back at 1:00 or 1:15 and try to correct some of the 11 additional items. We have a scheduled agenda item at 1:30 12 regarding Phase 3B of the Annex renovation. We have a 13 number of items still pending. Do we want to try to come 14 back at 1:00 or 1:15 and clear up some of these before that? 15 Or -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'd like to make it 17 1 o'clock, if we can, because I've got a 2 o'clock meeting. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, in doing so, I 19 just comment to Ms. Ingram out there, maybe you can rally 20 your neighbors and tell them we'll be talking about these 21 items that are of interest to you at 1 o'clock. I know 22 you've sat through all this this morning, and I appreciate 23 you being here. We will get around to it. This is the time 24 to call them. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we will be in 120 1 recess and return promptly at 1 o'clock. Thank you. 2 (Recess taken from 11:59 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.) 3 - - - - - - - - - - 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is 1 o'clock on Monday, 5 August the 14th, Year 2000. We will reconvene this session 6 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. Let's start with 7 Item Number 14, which is consider and discuss establishing 8 no-wake zones, regulating speed of power boats on Flat Rock 9 Lake, Ingram Lake, and Center Point Lake. Commissioner 10 Williams. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 12 This is a return item from a previous Commissioners Court 13 when we brought to the attention of the Court the need to 14 establish some no-wake zones on our lakes, particularly on 15 Flat Rock Lake, where for a long, long period of time, power 16 boats have been disrupting the -- disrupting the peace and 17 probably doing injury to property. The sense of the Court 18 was that -- was to question whether or not Kerr County had 19 the authority to establish such rules, and directed that I 20 send a memo to the County Attorney to get his opinion on 21 that. I did that, and the product of the County Attorney's 22 research is presented to you as backup material for this 23 particular item. 24 What he does, in fact, say is that Kerr 25 County does have the authority to regulate the power boat 121 1 usage on small lakes, so long as the lake is outside the 2 city limits of an incorporated city, town, or certain 3 political subdivision, and the lake is not owned by an 4 incorporated city or town, which it is not. Texas Parks and 5 Wildlife Code Section 331.092 authorizes counties to 6 designate certain areas as bathing, fishing, swimming, or 7 otherwise restricted areas, and (2), makes rules and regs 8 relating to the operation and equipment of boats which the 9 County deems necessary for public safety. Goes on to point 10 out what the penalties can be. They become Class C, I 11 believe, misdemeanors under the Parks and Wildlife Code 12 Section 31.121, in that a person operating a motor -- who 13 operates a motorboat or manipulates any waterskis in a 14 willful or wantonly reckless or negligent manner that 15 endangers another person's life, limb, or property commits a 16 Class C misdemeanor. 17 I want to thank Travis Lucas for his very 18 thoughtful letter back to me in which he addressed all the 19 issues that I presented to him in the memorandum, and so I 20 think what it does is clears the deck out for us to be able 21 to enact with a great degree of certainty a regulation 22 limiting the speeds which power boats would go up and down 23 the course of our lakes. So, having introduced it that way, 24 I guess we need to talk about it a little bit. And I notice 25 some people here from the Flat Rock Lake area, one of which 122 1 has indicated a desire to talk on the issue, Judge. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Barker, would you like to 3 come forward and address us at this time? 4 MR. BARKER: Judge Henneke and members of the 5 Court, I appreciate the opportunity to come here and address 6 you again about this property and the problems that we have 7 had on Flat Rock Lake. As you can see with that letter I 8 just gave you, this goes all the way back to 1996, the 9 concern that people had for the safety of people on the 10 lake, as well as power boats that come up and down the lake. 11 We originally did this -- I initiated this because of 12 safety. We were noticing that they had people being pulled 13 by power boats on skis, none of whom were wearing life 14 jackets. 15 They had people; i.e., families gathering on 16 the dam, and if you would go out and take a look at that 17 dam, there's an attractive row of stumps that people like to 18 swim out to. They get out to the stumps, and they all of a 19 sudden realize they don't have enough strength to swim back 20 to the dam. And, on two occasions, I've had to go out and 21 rescue kids who had no life jackets on, and the inflatable 22 objects that they used to get out to the stumps were no 23 longer workable, and so I had to go get them. We have had 24 people run skis behind power boats, and they don't realize 25 where all the stumps are in that lake, and all of a sudden 123 1 they have a ski rope wrapped around a stump. And if you can 2 imagine what a whip sounds like when you sling it and pop 3 it, that's what happens to a skier on the back of that 4 thing. He gets thrown off of that -- off of his skis. 5 Like I said, this has been going on for a 6 long time. We had contacted everybody we knew of to see 7 what could be done about this, and no one seemed to have 8 authority as to what goes on on that lake. At the time -- 9 the previous times we've appeared before you, the only thing 10 that we would get any satisfaction was that if there was 11 absolutely a commotion and/or danger from fire as a result 12 of fireworks on the dam, we could call the Sheriff and the 13 Sheriff could come out and do something. Other than that, 14 Parks and Wildlife said they had no jurisdiction over the 15 lake. The County said they had none. The City, of course, 16 said they had none. And we have just been sort of in a 17 state of flux until Bill Williams came up with answers to 18 many of our problems. 19 When I purchased my property there back in 20 1990, I was told that that was a no-wake fishing lake, and 21 it has turned out to be anything other than that. And I got 22 all of these people who are homeowners on the south side of 23 the lake, so that I could act as a spokesperson for them, 24 and you can see what we were desiring to accomplish on the 25 backside of this. The original of this letter went to 124 1 Mr. Pendergrass, a copy of which was given to Judge Denson 2 at the time. People who are on the north side of the lake 3 who favor the same thing belong to a homeowners' 4 association, and the people -- one, two, three, four, five, 5 six -- I've got six people all on Hilltop Drive who favor 6 the same things that are in that resolution. And we would 7 ask that that lake be designated as a no-wake lake. Make it 8 for sailing boats, canoes -- 9 AUDIENCE: Fishing. 10 MR. BARKER: Fishing. That's it. We've got 11 a lady here who loses about a foot of her property every 12 year because of the speedboats when they come down there, 13 and they sort of gather by the dam and just make circles up 14 and down there, pulling skiers and boogie boarders and all 15 those type things. And it's just really an absolute 16 nuisance. Do y'all have any questions? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now that we've 18 established the authority that -- the fact that we do have 19 authority -- 20 MR. BARKER: Thank you very much. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- authority to do 22 that, regulate that, we got -- 23 MR. LUCAS: Commissioner, may I address just 24 a couple of points? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure. 125 1 MR. LUCAS: Not only do we have the authority 2 to do this, but we also have some penalties, which I 3 addressed in the opinion, but I found some other ones as 4 well. And, regarding what you say, the Texas Parks and 5 Wildlife Code mandates that there should be no hazardous 6 wake at all. That's a Class C misdemeanor. If there is an 7 actual accident or collision or what the Code terms as a -- 8 as other casualty, that's a Class A misdemeanor, which is 9 the highest one that we have. You know, that's right below 10 a felony. So, Texas Parks and Wildlife treats this very 11 seriously. 12 One thing I would like to mention that I just 13 found out about is that, in order for us to enforce this, 14 our County Sheriff's Department -- they have to be certified 15 as what are called "Marine Safety Enforcement Officers." 16 Now, this is a recent change in the law that came about 17 during this last Legislative session. Apparently, we didn't 18 have that before, and there had been some sort of problems 19 because different jurisdictions, counties all over the 20 place, were kind of enforcing it in an uneven manner, and so 21 they petitioned the Legislature, changed the law. 22 Essentially, what this would require are for deputies to get 23 8 hour's worth of training from Texas Parks and Wildlife. 24 Looks like we can do that here in Kerrville. But, until 25 they do that, we can't just have any old deputy come out and 126 1 enforce it. So, that -- that's really the kind -- the twist 2 in all of this. I just wanted to kind of make you aware of 3 that. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that deals with 5 the enforcement side of the issue. 6 MR. LUCAS: Exactly. But we definitely have 7 authority. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if the Court were 9 inclined to enact the no-wake zone by court order -- 10 MR. LUCAS: We can do that. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- we can do that, 12 and then we can implore the Sheriff to get his folks trained 13 appropriately so that they could -- 14 MR. LUCAS: Exactly. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- be authorized to 16 be the agents of enforcement; is that correct? 17 MR. LUCAS: That's right. That's exactly 18 right. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much. 20 I appreciate your efforts on that -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Question, Travis. Do we have 22 to have a public hearing in order to adopt an order 23 establishing a no-wake zone? 24 MR. LUCAS: That's a good question, and I'll 25 just be speculating if I said yes or no, so let me find that 127 1 out. I don't think that -- I don't know. That's a good 2 question. I don't know. Let me reserve my commentary on 3 that. I can get back to you within, you know, really, a day 4 to figure that out. I'd have to hit the books. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There were some other 6 questions at the same time. If we do this as a court order, 7 do -- we wouldn't want to have separate court orders for 8 separate dams and lakes, would we? For example, Ingram Lake 9 has very much the same issues; erosion and no-wake zones and 10 all those same kinds of things, hazard to swimmers and -- 11 MR. LUCAS: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And making it 13 impossible for people to fish at times, I know, because of 14 large -- larger boats. 15 MR. LUCAS: Mm-hmm. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But wouldn't we want 17 to address this county-wide? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do, Commissioner. 19 In the -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What I'm saying is -- 21 is that we almost have to have it -- is it an ordinance that 22 we would be doing? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the issue I'm raising 24 with Mr. Lucas, is under what authority do we enact this? 25 Apparently it's in the Parks and Wildlife section of the 128 1 Code, but what are our legal requirements? Do we have to 2 have a public hearing? Do we have to post notice? I think 3 we need to know that before we can go the next step. 4 MR. LUCAS: Right. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's fine. 6 Better to be on the safe side of the issue than to find out 7 we didn't do it properly. That's not something you can 8 research within the next 10, 15, 20 minutes? 9 MR. LUCAS: I can jump down there -- I've got 10 a couple of issues I think that you may be -- that are later 11 on down the agenda, so I don't -- I didn't know if you 12 wanted me to address those -- you know, dealing with the 13 fireworks. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we have the 15 fireworks coming up, and what else? Couple fireworks 16 issues. 17 MR. LUCAS: We had the burn ban and how it 18 relates to fireworks and that type of thing, yeah. So, 19 yeah, you bet. I can -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go ahead and call those 21 up. 22 MR. LUCAS: Okay. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Agenda Item Number 15, which 24 is consider and discuss -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, before we leave 129 1 that one, I also wanted to make a comment; that I think that 2 we probably need to ask the Sheriff if he's interested in 3 getting into any kind of aquatic business. Are we going to 4 then need to put a -- some kind of police boat in our 5 budget? There's -- you need to ask the Sheriff before you 6 start demanding him to do anything, I can tell you that. 7 Just a question. Before that came up, I was ready to vote. 8 I would have voted with you, but I'm not sure that I will 9 now. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We would certainly 11 want his concurrence, absolutely. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 14 MS. SOVIL: You might consider that there is 15 an order on file for Ingram Dam already, that Parks and 16 Wildlife enforces a no-wake zone at the Ingram Lake. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, in that one 18 little area. There's just one small area, though. That's 19 what -- 20 MS. SOVIL: It says Ingram Lake, and it takes 21 it up to a certain spot. Not the whole river, just the lake 22 part. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We probably can -- we 24 may be able to get some help from Texas Parks and Wildlife 25 on enforcement, as well. Like we apparently did -- 130 1 MR. BARKER: Texas Parks and Wildlife has the 2 boats to do it. They enforce it. 3 MR. LUCAS: They have the boats here? The 4 boats are here in Kerr County, right? 5 MR. BARKER: Right there by Kerrville State 6 Park. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's an issue we'll have to 8 look at. Any more questions about the no-wake zone issue? 9 If not, let's turn to Item 15, which is consider and discuss 10 a county-wide ban on the use of fireworks during those 11 periods of time when Commissioners Court has imposed a burn 12 ban. Let's also take up consider and discuss prohibiting -- 13 (Discussion off the record.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Consider and discuss 15 prohibiting the use of fireworks in any county park or in 16 any county dam. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Again, it's an issue 18 we talked about at the prior Commissioners Court meeting, 19 and one that I asked the County Attorney to research, and 20 the response is contained in his letter back to us. Travis 21 could elaborate on that. 22 MR. LUCAS: Any specific questions? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: It appears to me that in 24 order to enact the county-wide ban on fireworks usage, we 25 have to have two elements; one, a drought condition exists, 131 1 and secondly, it's within the 4th of July or December 2 fireworks seasons. 3 MR. LUCAS: That's right, yeah. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: So we cannot -- in other 5 words, we cannot enact a comprehensive, year-round -- 6 MR. LUCAS: That's right. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- fireworks ban. 8 MR. LUCAS: That's right. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Regardless of the situation. 10 MR. LUCAS: Exactly. And it's really -- I 11 guess if you look at -- that's Question 1 at the -- the 12 third paragraph there. I went in further than just asking 13 what the law is, but asking what the politics behind it was. 14 And you guys up here on the Commissioners Court and your 15 colleagues throughout the 253 other counties have this 16 problem, you know, because, of course, we've had a lot of 17 dry years lately, and y'all are kind of hamstrung to some 18 degree in what you're able to do in regulating these 19 fireworks. Essentially, if you want, I'll expand -- expound 20 on this a little bit more. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please. 22 MR. LUCAS: Texas Forest Service has to first 23 declare that there is a drought; and that's done, of course, 24 you know, through the -- the index that they do. Once they 25 do that, then you have to jump the other hurdle by making 132 1 sure, if it's in the summer, that that drought is declared 2 before June the 15th. Or if it's in the Christmas/New Years 3 season, before December the 15th. The fireworks lobby 4 apparently is very powerful and have defeated a lot of 5 legislation trying to help y'all in circumventing the 6 problem, but TAC tells me that they're going to try to add 7 some more legislation and put the ball back in our court. 8 And, by the way, this refers only to what they call the 9 Code -- the Code calls "restricted fireworks," which are 10 like missiles -- you know, not like Blackcat fireworks and 11 things like that. Something that can be fired here and, you 12 know, a hundred feet off, you know, like at night. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the 14 type of fireworks that most people have concerns about. 15 MR. LUCAS: Yeah, you bet. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not the little 17 firecracker-type things. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've told this story 19 about exactly what he's saying. This year, as a matter of 20 fact, I was -- I had been approached about trying to 21 restrict aerial fireworks in a particular subdivision in my 22 precinct, and I knew about this, so I contacted the Texas 23 Forestry Service -- it was prior to June 15th, about June 24 the 10th -- in order to get it enacted for the July 4th 25 holiday. Texas Forestry Service says at that point, "Sorry, 133 1 we don't see you in a drought condition at this time." So, 2 on June 15th, we're not in a drought condition according to 3 their standards, but once we get -- or the drought -- this 4 type of drought conditions, but once we get to July 4th, I 5 mean, there is just totally burned -- everything's burned 6 up; there's, you know, no green grass at all. So, this is a 7 problem. 8 MR. LUCAS: You bet. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There is a problem if 10 you rely on the Texas Forestry Service. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, following up on 12 that, Commissioner, Commissioner Griffin, where do we get 13 our information when we want to establish it? Where's the 14 Keech-Byrum Index come from? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It comes from the 16 Texas Forest Service, online. Usually runs a day or two 17 behind, and we can usually call and get an immediate reading 18 if we want it -- if we want to do that, which we could do in 19 that case to see if what is in the -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's got to be done by 21 June 15th in order for it to be enacted by the July 4th 22 holiday, you know, is the way I understand it. 23 MR. LUCAS: That's right. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's time for 134 1 all kind of things to change. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 3 MR. LUCAS: Worst part of the drought is 4 right now. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That only takes care 6 of two holidays -- holiday periods. 7 MR. LUCAS: Mm-hmm. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there are many 9 other holidays. 10 MR. LUCAS: That's right. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the only authority 12 that we're given, is to restrict aerial fireworks when we 13 have those two periods in the calendar year. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to make 15 sure I understand. So, what you're really saying is that -- 16 that notwithstanding our ability to put a burn ban into 17 effect on and off throughout the year, based on the 18 Keech-Byrum Index, which is put forth by the Texas Forestry 19 Service, our hands are tied to this -- tying it to the burn 20 ban; we can't do that unless it's just two periods of time a 21 year. Is that what you're saying? 22 MR. LUCAS: That's right, yeah, and it's -- 23 Ed Salazar and all the rest of the guys at the Fire 24 Marshal's office, you know, they're -- which is, you know, 25 the people I had extensive consultations with in reading the 135 1 law, making sure that this was the correct interpretation, 2 which it is. And, you know, it's a big problem. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let's jump 4 ahead just one notch. If we can't do it county-wide, what 5 about on county property? Not the least of which are dams. 6 MR. LUCAS: Right. And, again, I guess 7 that's Question -- for your sake, Commissioners and Judge 8 Henneke, this will be Question 3 on Page 2. There's nothing 9 that says that -- that actually gives, I guess, a -- you 10 know, a penalty in the Penal Code as to, you know, how you 11 can enforce something like that. I mean, of course, we can, 12 you know, say, you know, you shouldn't be there after 13 hours -- certain hours or, you know, any kind of factual 14 considerations that might go into where there would be a 15 cause for criminal trespass or criminal mischief, if you 16 catch what I'm saying. But I haven't found anything, nor 17 has anyone in one of the state agencies been able to tell me 18 whether you guys can come out and say, on county property, 19 you can't, you know, do any kind of fireworks. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That says we can or 21 cannot? 22 MR. LUCAS: Cannot. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cannot, okay. 24 MR. LUCAS: Whether you -- I'm sorry, let me 25 restate that. That you have the authority to say no 136 1 fireworks. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Thank you. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, without the grant of 4 specific authority, counties do not have the authority? 5 MR. LUCAS: Right. But, you know, again -- 6 and this is kind of a -- maybe a little digression, but, you 7 know, the County could certainly look at it from the 8 viewpoint of being the property owner, right? And as a 9 property owner, you can restrict certain conduct on your 10 property. And this is where I get to the Question 5, which 11 relates to can a county enact an outright ban on all 12 activity on dams? And, again, there's no specific authority 13 that addresses whether you, as a Commissioners Court, can do 14 those -- that type of banning or regulation. But, like I 15 say here, it is conceivable that a county could ban activity 16 based on the county's implied police power in protecting the 17 public's safety and welfare. See what I'm saying? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Yeah, I see 19 what you're saying. Now, where's that leave us? 20 MR. LUCAS: I think that leaves you where, if 21 we have a problem with fireworks on county-owned property, 22 we may not be able to regulate that activity of them using 23 fireworks, but we would have to -- if there becomes problems 24 with their conduct being mischievous, where we could, you 25 know, charge them with criminal mischief, or if they're 137 1 trespassing, it would have to be under those enforcement 2 provisions. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, what if 4 the County, instead of dealing with fireworks, as such, 5 specifically -- 6 MR. LUCAS: Mm-hmm? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm hearing you say 8 the County has the authority to impose, for example, no 9 trespassing. 10 MR. LUCAS: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely no persons 12 will be on county dams for any reason, period. 13 MR. LUCAS: Like I say -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Except authorized for 15 repairs or other things, or lifesaving or whatever. 16 MR. LUCAS: Right, and that's Question 5. 17 And there's nothing that says -- that I can find that says 18 y'all can absolutely do that. And I also addressed this 19 issue with Ilse Bailey. But, it certainly seems to me that 20 y'all could, just out of the theory of their -- you guys 21 having the implied -- and there is a bunch of legal -- legal 22 mumbo-jumbo; maybe Judge Henneke could help with this, too, 23 but you -- you have the implied authority of protecting 24 people's safety and welfare, right? From any kind of thing. 25 If being on a dam -- let's say if that dam had a, you know, 138 1 high elevation, you know, where people could fall off, well, 2 of course y'all could prohibit that type of authority of 3 them, you know, walking on it and perhaps falling off, 4 because you're protecting the public in that instance. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a stretch, big 6 time. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, it really is. 8 It's a paradox, because we've got this situation, and Ingram 9 Lake -- Ingram Dam is probably a good example of it, too, 10 where it's actually quite dangerous on certain parts of the 11 dam under certain conditions. And if someone was injured 12 and we had done nothing to restrict that, are we open to 13 some liability? 'Cause we didn't even put up a warning 14 sign, "Enter at your own risk," or "No lifeguards provided," 15 or whatever the case may be. It seems that we're sort of 16 between a rock and a hard place because of not having the 17 authority to regulate, and at the same time having -- 18 probably having tort liability. It seems strange, but it's 19 probably the case. 20 MR. LUCAS: Sure. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, on the other 22 hand, you had 30 or 40 years of people going to the hospital 23 with busted heads out there, and I don't know of any 24 lawsuit. But, now that the press is here, it would be a 25 good time for a lawsuit -- a frivolous lawsuit to happen. 139 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ma'am, you had a comment or 2 question? 3 MS. INGRAM: Well, my name is Joyce Ingram, and 4 my husband and I live -- our back yard goes right down to 5 Flat Rock Dam. And, if you can't do something about the 6 fireworks, could we at least have a curfew? And this isn't 7 July 4th and -- and Christmas; this is all year long, we 8 find those bottle rockets in our yard. Three, four years 9 ago we had a grass fire on what is now Commanche Trace 10 property; it wasn't then. We just have a big problem. And 11 if we could just have a curfew where people had to leave at 12 11:30 or 12:00, just, you know, go home. We call the 13 Sheriff now and -- we give them till 1 o'clock, and then we 14 call the Sheriff. And, I must say that the Sheriff comes -- 15 they come every blessed time and they disperse them, you 16 know. Especially in the summer. These are kids, and we 17 don't want to be unreasonable about it, but, boy, we need 18 some help out there. At least a curfew, if nothing else. 19 Thank you. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another follow-up 22 question, -- 23 MR. LUCAS: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Travis. Can we 25 deal with the curfew aspect of the dam when we deal with 140 1 park regulations? And if we are inclined to set a curfew 2 for park use, can we also include dams in that? 3 MR. LUCAS: Let me research that. I can't -- 4 you know, I can't tell you definitively. It seems 5 conceivable to me. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Seems like all you'd have to 7 do would be to include your dam in the definition of park. 8 MR. LUCAS: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And we so designated 10 parks and dams -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Parks, dams. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that would be 13 a smart thing to do. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Griffin 15 and I have already talked about that. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very good. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're ahead of y'all. 18 Don't remember what we said, but -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, ma'am? 20 MS. WARD: I'm Erline Ward, and I am the third 21 house coming back toward town from the dam. Has -- has 22 anybody checked with the Sheriff's Department to see how 23 many times they've had to come out there? Don't they have a 24 record? Sometimes we have to -- it's not only fireworks. 25 It's total disturbances, parties that are -- some have gone 141 1 on until 2:00 and 3 o'clock in the mornings, and we've had 2 to call. They do come out, but I think it's a shame that 3 our Sheriff's Department has to tend to things like that 4 when there are probably more important matters. 5 MR. LUCAS: Of course, if I may, that would 6 also come under, you know, the jurisdiction of -- of the 7 courts and the criminal justice system if they're out there 8 raising cain. 9 MS. WARD: Very noisy. 10 MR. LUCAS: That disturbs the peace. I mean, 11 if they're -- possibly, you know, public intoxication. I 12 mean, there's probably a whole handful of things. 13 MS. WARD: Drugs of some sort. 14 MR. LUCAS: I know what you're speaking to is 15 prevention, making sure it doesn't occur beforehand. 16 MS. WARD: Right. And, back to the fireworks, 17 on July the 4th, I called the Sheriff twice, and then we had 18 the fire across the road, what used to be -- well, I guess 19 it -- I don't know if it was Commanche or just -- I just 20 hung up the phone and heard the fire trucks coming out there 21 on 173. So, here's a big fire, but the fire -- fireworks 22 had been going, 'cause they were on the dam. They were on 23 the other side of Mr. Barker's home, which is right next 24 door to mine. They were around them, they were across from 25 me, everywhere. 142 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they were also up 2 on the hill on the Guadalupe Heights side, as well. 3 MS. WARD: Yes. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've had people tell 5 me that. 6 MS. INGRAM: Ms. Dodson told about that. 7 MS. WARD: We just need something. Thank you. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir? 9 MR. INGRAM: That fire, too, that she spoke of, 10 there's 6 acres right adjacent to our house; our property 11 adjoins that. I've tried to buy it several times, just to 12 keep people off of it. But, in '93 or '94, we got a -- we 13 had leased it out, and we received a call about 2 o'clock in 14 the morning that the field was on fire. The wind was coming 15 from the south, and it more than likely was going to engulf 16 the house. So, we beat it out there, and Kerrville South 17 Fire Department had already hosed down the house and they 18 stopped the -- the fire about 30 feet from the fence line 19 before it got to the house. And, they suggested in the 20 future that I keep it mowed about 50 foot out there for a 21 fire break, and I have since that time. But, there was no 22 fire ban in place, as I recall, when that occurred. You 23 know, it's dry, and the fireworks is what did it. And one 24 of the kids knocked on three or four doors, and I think your 25 door too, and -- and was scared to death he was going to 143 1 catch all those houses on fire. And that's what alerted 2 homeowners there that there was a fire in the field. That 3 was in '93. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: We will do what we can to 5 assist you all, but as you can tell, our hands are 6 relatively tied. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think Travis 8 has set enough line on it that we can come back and attempt 9 to do something through the Park Rules and Regs, and we're 10 looking for an answer, then, from you with regard to whether 11 or not we need to conduct a public hearing on no-wake zones 12 on county lakes. So, we're not going to give up. We're 13 going to keep hacking at it till we get it done. 14 MR. LUCAS: Would you like me to go ahead and 15 get that answer to you before you adjourn? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I don't know 17 that we need it today, but -- 18 MR. LUCAS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- at your earliest 20 convenience. 21 MR. LUCAS: Okay. Thank you. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Prior to the next 23 Court meeting, which is a night meeting on the 28th at 24 6:30 p.m. 25 MR. LUCAS: Okay. Any other questions? 144 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, thanks. 2 MR. HARRISON: Okay. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have scheduled for 1:30 4 Item Number 21, which is consider and discuss plans for 5 Phase 3B of the Courthouse Annex Renovation. Mr. 6 Longnecker. 7 MR. LONGNECKER: I'd previously submitted to 8 Judge Henneke a memorandum that explains pretty much how the 9 contractor would like to proceed with the renovations of the 10 second floor just above this courtroom. And, it's in two -- 11 do you all have a copy of that memorandum? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, we do. 13 MR. LONGNECKER: Okay. I've also marked it 14 on a couple of blueprints showing a red line that indicates 15 where the division will be. They want to do it in two 16 parts. The reason for doing it in two parts is to keep from 17 having to move the District Clerk and her staff down 18 temporarily. Now, these drawings show -- one's 19 architectural and the other one is mechanical, which 20 indicates all the work that needs to be done up there. And 21 my memorandum said that the work had started already on 22 Phase 3B, which is a wall that has -- says it was started, 23 but it is now finished. That was put in during the weekend, 24 on Saturday, and that is partially complete. It is enough 25 to divide the courtroom. The courtroom up there is still 145 1 functional. It's ready to -- except for a few seats that 2 were taken out in the back. And that, in itself, begins to 3 divide your two areas. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there any adverse fiscal 5 impact upon revision of the plans? 6 MR. LONGNECKER: No, there is no adverse 7 physical impact on the -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not physical, fiscal. Money. 9 MR. LONGNECKER: No. No, there is not. This 10 -- the original plans called for moving the District Clerk 11 and her staff to a room or an area down on the lower level 12 over in the remodeled Annex area. This would require the 13 County to provide the labor and all of the hookups and 14 everything needed for phones and computers and notifier 15 system and so on to be put in temporarily down there, but 16 the District Clerk doesn't like that idea. She hasn't liked 17 it from the beginning. 18 So, in working with the contractor, we've 19 come up with this scheme or this plan for doing the work. 20 This will leave the District Clerk where she is until such 21 time as her new permanent offices, which go in the old 22 courtroom and the old jury room, and they -- she can move 23 directly to those rooms at such time as they're finished. 24 Now, we save a little bit by not having to finish out a room 25 downstairs for her, but because the contractor has to do 146 1 this in two parts or two stages, it's going to cost him a 2 little more to bring his contractors back -- his 3 subcontractors back for the second time after he finishes 4 the District Clerk's area, or what I'm calling 3-B-1. The 5 Law Library is 3-B-2. I have that marked on the drawing 6 there, and I have it indicated in this memorandum. 7 There's -- I've gone over this with the 8 contractor. We've discussed it in our construction 9 meetings. It's been going on for some time. If you choose 10 to move the District Clerk down there and not use this plan, 11 then that's going to delay the construction even more, 12 because they have not -- they're not near ready to move her 13 down there, which would take more time. This way, I think 14 we will save time. It won't save anything on the 15 construction costs themselves, but it will save the County a 16 lot of work for Maintenance to move her down there. Is 17 Glenn still here? I think Glenn will verify that this is 18 what will happen. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Am I correct, then, in saying 20 that there were no funds budgeted in the current 21 construction budget for the costs of relocating the District 22 Clerk downstairs? 23 MR. LONGNECKER: Yes, that was -- that was 24 budgeted in. To move -- I mean, not the move itself, but 25 the finishing of the space was all that was budgeted into 147 1 the present contract. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, there are funds in there 3 for finishing the space, so theoretically we should get a 4 credit to the extent of some of those -- 5 MR. LONGNECKER: Well, the credit is -- the 6 contractor is telling me that the credit is absorbed by 7 the -- having to do this second floor up here in two stages 8 instead of one. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: But at least there's -- what 10 you're telling us, Keith, is there's no additional cost? 11 MR. LONGNECKER: There's no additional cost. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: The County does not incur the 13 cost to cover the personnel doing the physical move from the 14 current space downstairs and then back up again. 15 MR. LONGNECKER: That's right. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 17 MR. LONGNECKER: Now, going a little bit 18 further, in working with the contractor, this very room here 19 is scheduled for a new ceiling. It was scheduled for lights 20 and ceiling. We have taken the lights out, for a credit. 21 In working with the contractor -- and I'm almost certain, 22 though I've not worked it out, there will be no need to even 23 disturb any of this ceiling in here. In other words, this 24 room will be left as-is, and that will be a credit and a 25 savings. 148 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good news. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Linda, do you want to tell us 3 how you feel about this? 4 MS. UECKER: No. I think he's basically said 5 it all. And we've discussed it, and I've discussed it with 6 some of the Commissioners, and I think even you, that I 7 thought it would be not only easier not to make that double 8 move, but also working with the courts. I have access 9 through the new walkway over to the courts, rather than 10 being way downstairs and having to, you know, go up two 11 levels to try to work with the courts. On another subject, 12 Mr. Walker just called and said he had to take his sister 13 somewhere and he'd be right here, so he was going to be a 14 few minutes late, if you're wondering where he is. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why do we need him? 16 MR. LONGNECKER: It's not really an 17 architectural matter, it's construction. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 19 MR. LONGNECKER: Construction procedure. 20 MS. UECKER: He called to tell me in case 21 y'all are wondering where he is. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Linda, do y'all have any 23 concern about working up there while the construction is 24 going on, I mean, right around y'all? 25 MS. UECKER: Well, of course we do. But, you 149 1 know, it's not anything we haven't done before, and it's 2 just a sacrifice that we feel like would be worth taking. 3 The public would still have access through the front door, 4 the stairs and the foyer, including the elevator and through 5 the back. And, from what I understand, they're going to 6 barricade us completely from the construction that will be 7 going on in the courtroom and just leaving, like, a little 8 pathway from the stairs up to the front door. 9 Now, the other thing that I was thinking 10 about doing, and I haven't made a final decision on that, is 11 moving my child support person maybe downstairs somewhere 12 temporarily, because that -- that's the largest number of -- 13 of public that would need to access our office. So, I've 14 even toyed with moving that person downstairs, just for the 15 purpose of receiving and disbursing child support, which 16 would eliminate a lot of our -- the traffic to that office. 17 Except for, of course, the attorneys working on their cases. 18 But, you know, we can't deter all of it. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any questions or 20 comments? 21 (Commissioner Griffin left the courtroom.) 22 MR. LONGNECKER: I might state that we have 23 no place to put any kind of an office in the lower level at 24 this point. It would have to be finished out. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we -- that's something 150 1 that basically Linda would have to -- 2 MS. UECKER: Yeah. There's -- 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- work with Jannett or 4 Barbara or Paula to provide a space where -- you know, to 5 accommodate where a person would either be there a portion 6 of the day or all day or whatever. 7 MS. UECKER: There's an office in the 8 basement that I'm using right now that could be used for 9 that purpose. It even has computer hookups already. So, 10 that's kind of where I was thinking I might put that person. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Since this is a change in the 12 already adopted procedure, I felt it necessary to bring it 13 to the Court. I'd like to have a formal motion to approve 14 changing the procedure for renovation of the District Court 15 Clerk's to that which has been outlined by Mr. Longnecker, 16 which would then give him the ability to deal directly, 17 making that formal change. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 22 approve the procedure for renovation of the District Clerk's 23 space, as outlined by Mr. Longnecker, which does not include 24 relocating the District Clerk to the lower floor of the 25 Annex and then returning her once her space is finished. 151 1 Any further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 2 raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 7 MR. LONGNECKER: Okay. Could I have my 8 drawings back? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, are you going 11 to take a break about 2 o'clock? Just to find -- I need to 12 run out, run right back. And if I run out, then you don't 13 have a court. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll take a break at 15 2 o'clock. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll next take up Item 2.12, 18 which is consider and discuss a blanket order for 19 authorization for County Judge to sign the standard 20 Interlocal Agreements for mental health hearings. Jannett? 21 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, basically the Judge 22 just said it all. We have probably in the neighborhood of 23 10 to 15 that have come back signed by various counties, and 24 rather than putting them on the agenda one at a time, it 25 would be easier if we just do a blanket order for the Judge 152 1 to approve them, since they're all standard form. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We did this last year when we 3 approved the form. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 8 give authorization to the County Judge to execute the 9 standard Interlocal Agreements for Mental Health and Mental 10 Retardation, Chemical Dependency Commitment Hearings and 11 Psychoactive Medication Hearings at Kerrville State 12 Hospital. Any further questions or comments? If not, all 13 in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 18 Item Number 13, consider and discuss measures to provide 19 non-potable water to Kerr County residents whose private 20 wells have gone dry. Glenn, do you have anything to report 21 to us on that, sir? 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. I spoke with 23 Commissioner Letz Friday, and he had kind of indicated to me 24 the willingness of the Little League people to allow us to 25 use that well. I just got the combination a few minutes ago 153 1 to the gate so I can get in, and now I'm going to try to 2 figure out how we get into the building where they have the 3 well. From there, I just need to see what plumbing we may 4 need to do. I would prefer if we could wait till 5 approximately Thursday, which would give me enough time to 6 get it ready to go. And I would prefer scheduling it 7 between 1:00 and 3:00 in the afternoons for people that want 8 water, and to call first, and I would like for them to call 9 our office to set up when they're going to be there between 10 that time, because I'd prefer not leaving someone just 11 sitting there for two hours doing nothing but waiting on 12 someone. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't want anyone sitting 14 there, either. So, you'd like us to pass an order 15 authorizing you to disburse water from 1:00 to 3:00 Monday 16 through Friday, if individuals will call you in advance. 17 And they must bring their own containers? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Absolutely. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we need to put any limit 20 on the amount of water they can have at any one time? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: I have no handle on that, 22 Judge. I -- that would be a Court -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: What do y'all think? 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- recommendation. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think so, 154 1 unless it became obvious that there was some chicanery going 2 on. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: Is it to be used for livestock 4 or -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not potable 6 water. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- bathing or whatever, or is 8 it -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whatever they want to use it 10 for, but it's clearly not up to drinking water standards. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about 12 the well -- 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Swimming pools and that sort 14 of thing. No, I meant as a -- where do you -- is there any 15 restriction on the amounts? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about 17 the well on Little League property? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we have to 20 make everybody aware that it's nonpotable water. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they pull in there 23 with a big water truck, I might ask a question, but if they 24 come in with a 55-gallon barrel -- 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's what I meant. 155 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I think it's okay, 2 if that's what they're doing. 3 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think that's what the Judge 4 was questioning on. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's really what I 6 was getting at, what the Commissioner said. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is your phone 8 number again? 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: 257-7393. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's great. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have a need 12 for any particular kind of device to distribute water, load 13 tanks and so forth? Or do you have -- 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think we can rig something 15 up with PVC pipe and that sort of thing. May take some 16 fittings or that sort of thing, but I don't -- I'm hoping 17 not to build anything permanent. Just a temporary. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we need a motion? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 23 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 24 authorize the Maintenance Department to dispense nonpotable 25 water from the well located at the Kerrville Little League 156 1 fields between the hours of 1:00 and 3:00 p.m., Monday 2 through Friday, for those individuals that call 257-7393 in 3 advance and schedule a time to receive such water, such 4 water to be used only for necessities and not for the 5 watering of landscape or other recreational uses. Any 6 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 7 your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We'll be 12 done by 2:00. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 18, 15 consider and discuss approval of a resolution in support of 16 the Texas Solid Waste Grants Program. You have in your 17 packets a letter from AACOG requesting that we do a 18 resolution in support of continuation of their program, 19 which, by the way, we benefit from. Motion authorizing the 20 resolution? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. Good 23 program. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 25 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 157 1 approve a resolution in support of the Texas Solid Waste 2 Grants Program. Any further questions or comments? If not, 3 all in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item 19, 8 consider and discuss contributing $5,000 per year to 9 G.B.R.A. for the annual operation and maintenance of 10 rainfall and stream level monitoring system in Kerr County. 11 We have a letter in the packet from G.B.R.A. asking us to 12 contribute $5,000 towards the annual operation and 13 maintenance of the stream monitoring system, which is going 14 to be owned and maintained by G.B.R.A. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions or comments? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the system 18 that was formerly owned by U.G.R.A., am I correct? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Which they 21 abandoned because it was too difficult to maintain or keep 22 operational? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has the City of 25 Kerrville agreed to a $5,000 contribution? 158 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I do not know. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This transfer of 3 authority from U.G.R.A. over to G.B.R.A., has that already 4 happened or -- 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Their agreement thing 7 has already gone into place? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They abandoned it 9 about a year ago. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. 11 Longer than that, but -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, they have. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MR. SIEMERS: They've transferred all the 15 equipment that they have to support that operation, too, 16 G.B.R.A. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I tell you what, 18 it just irks me to think that we're going to send Kerr 19 County tax money to G.B.R.A. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought when 21 G.B.R.A. expressed its interest in taking it over, that a 22 lot -- I have to qualify it. I don't think that G B.R.A. is 23 altruistic, but I thought they knew there was expense in 24 monitoring it and they thought it was in the best interests 25 of everybody up and down the river corridor to do this, and 159 1 that they weren't seeking any contributions in support; they 2 were willing to do that. That's what I thought. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's one way to 4 find out. Don't approve it, find out real quick. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I'm not going 6 to make a motion. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Lacking a motion, the item is 9 tabled. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, thank you. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll move on to Item Number 12 20, consider and discuss accepting the resignation of Gene 13 Ritchie, Joe Strange, and Lonnie Rutherford from the Kerr 14 County, Texas, Veterans Land Board Committee, and appointing 15 new members of the board. You have in your packet 16 resignation letters from Mr. Ritchie on behalf of himself 17 and the committee. I believe also we circulated names of 18 two individuals who expressed an interest in being on the 19 committee, those being Ron Sprott, a retired lieutenant 20 colonel, and Steve Galland, a retired master-sergeant, I 21 believe. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we need a third 23 person? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: We need a third person. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you just want 160 1 to -- you want to accept resignations today. You want to go 2 ahead and make appointments, too? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's your pleasure? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we 5 accept the resignation of Mr. Ritchie, Mr. Strange, and 6 Mr. Rutherford from the Kerr County, Texas, Veterans Land 7 Board, effective immediately, and appoint in place of two of 8 those Mr. Sprott and Mr. Galland. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 11 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 12 accept the resignations of Mr. Ritchie, Rutherford, and 13 Strange from the Kerr County Texas Veterans Land Board and 14 appoint, as two of the three members of that board, Ron 15 Sprott and Steve Galland. Any comments or questions? If 16 not, all in favor raise your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. I believe, 21 unless someone else has something, we are completed. If 22 there's no other business to come before this Court, we 23 stand adjourned. 24 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 1:55 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 161 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 18th day of August, 8 2000. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25