1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, August 28, 2000 11 6:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 28, 2000 PAGE 2 --- Commissioners' Comments 3 3 1.1 Pay Bills 7 1.2 Budget Amendments 9 4 1.3 Late Bills 19 1.4 Read and Accept Monthly Reports 20 5 2.1 Annual Chamber of Commerce report 21 6 2.2 Status of Christmas Lighting activities/plans 24 7 2.3 Resolution supporting V.A. Medical Center's 8 selection as pilot program for long-term care 33 9 2.4 Adopt HCYEC Master Plan by Quorum Architects, discuss how to proceed with implementation 36 10 2.5 Set time for joint meeting with UGRA Board 47 11 2.6 Declare two cars & seized vehicles as surplus 50 12 2.7 Septic variance - Lot 5, Riverbend Estates 53 13 2.8 Septic variance - Lot 4, Riverbend Estates 53 14 2.9 Amend Court Order 26480, Approval of Polling Locations for Precinct 303 65 15 2.10 Amend Court Order 26479, Appointment/replacement 16 of County Election Judges & Alternate Judges 66 17 2.11 Advertise for RFP's, computer system upgrade 68 18 2.12 Have County Attorney write letters regarding violations on Scenic Valley and Spicer Ranch 70 19 2.13 Approve road name changes, process for notifying 20 property owners and public agencies 73 21 2.14 Establish "No-Wake Zones" on County lakes 79 22 2.15 Park Rules & Regulations, set public hearing 88 23 2.16 Discuss Subdivision Rules & Regulations 99 24 2.17 Status review of 911 106 25 2.18 Change Order #4, Courthouse Annex renovation 111 3 1 On Monday, August 28, 2000, at 6:30 p.m., a Special 2 Session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, and the 4 following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good evening. It's 6:30 on 7 Monday, August 28th, Year 2000. We'll call to order this 8 regular special session of the Kerr County Commissioners 9 Court. Commissioner Baldwin, I believe have you the honors 10 this evening. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I do. If y'all 12 would stand and join me in a word of prayer, please, and 13 then we will do the pledge of allegiance. 14 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, 17 anyone wishing to address the Court on an item which is not 18 on the regular scheduled agenda may come forward and do so. 19 Is there anyone at this time who would like to address the 20 Court on an item which is not on the posted agenda? Once 21 again, is there anyone who would like to address the Court 22 on an item which is not on the posted agenda? Seeing none, 23 we'll move into the Commissioners comments. Let's start 24 with Commissioner Baldwin. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have none -- oh, I 4 1 do, too. I, Saturday, went to over near Georgetown, Texas, 2 to watch the mighty Tivy Antlers play football, and saw 3 three football games in the boiling sun. And I enjoyed it. 4 And, just wanted to say that our kids -- and I know our kids 5 across the county are great, but I just happened to witness 6 the Kerrville kids act as gentlemen in representing our 7 community in a great, great way. Good bunch of folks, and 8 I'm -- I'm proud to be associated with them. That's all. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only one quickie, 11 Judge. About two, three months ago, I think, I made 12 reference to a need I thought needed to be taken care of, 13 and that was the day when the Time-Warner people were in 14 talking about one of their problems and I mentioned to them 15 that it would really be good if the only local electronic 16 medium that we have, Channel 51 then, which is now Channel 17 10, would be lowered down to a lower spectrum so more people 18 could view local news and local programming. I want to 19 extend my thanks and appreciation to the Time-Warner people; 20 they did that. They took that suggestion and they have 21 moved Channel 51 down to a lower spectrum, and everybody who 22 has Cablevision here can now receive Channel 10. And those 23 folks are working hard to make sure they put the kind of 24 programming out that everybody would like to see, and I 25 extend my thanks to Time-Warner. 5 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. Commissioner 2 Letz? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only comment I have 4 is that, for those who are interested, the draft of the 5 Region J Water Plan is in the County Clerk's office. I 6 hope. Jannett's nodding her head yes. The public hearings 7 will be September 25th and 26th. The 25th date will be in 8 Del Rio, and 26th will be at 7 o'clock in the evening at 9 U.G.R.A.'s lecture hall. And, it will also -- I don't 10 believe it's available yet, but it will be available on 11 U.G.R.A.'s web site, which is "www.ugra.org". And, when it 12 comes up, you can go to it; it says Plateau Water Planning 13 Group, and that icon will get you right to where the -- the 14 plan is available. I talked to Jim on Friday and he thought 15 it would probably be Wednesday of this week before it was 16 up, so it may or may not be up yet. That's it. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No comments. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have a 20 question of Commissioner Letz. Is that going to be the 21 entire report, or just that which is pertinent to Kerr 22 County? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The entire report. The 24 entire draft, the full copy, including the -- all of the 25 graphs and tables. Everything that's in the County Clerk's 6 1 copy, the copy that we have as well. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For those who didn't 3 see it, in the San Antonio Express News yesterday was the 4 first of a five-part series on development of the Hill 5 Country and the impact of that development on water and so 6 forth. Good reading. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have a couple quick ones. 8 First of all, I'll remind everyone that we have -- the next 9 opportunity to discuss the budget will be Wednesday starting 10 at 9 o'clock here in the Commissioners Courtroom. Secondly, 11 I'd like to offer my congratulations to Russ Duncan and 12 Judge Spencer Brown. Mr. Duncan heads our Kerr County 13 Collections Department. Judge Brown is the one who 14 basically supervises that. They had a seminar last Thursday 15 here in the courthouse. Very well attended by elected 16 officials from many of the surrounding counties, in order to 17 educate those officials as to how we're taking steps in 18 order to maximize the collections and the fines that have 19 been levied by various courts and offices throughout the 20 county. Finally, as we all know, we are in the -- in the 21 throes of a very, very severe dry condition-slash-drought. 22 The Region J Water Plan that Commissioner Letz has made 23 reference to is the long-term road map and bible for water 24 in this county and this region through the year 2050. I 25 urge all of you to take time to become involved in the 7 1 public discussions on that plan, because it will direct us 2 in how we're going to solve the obvious water problems for a 3 long time to come. And, again, that hearing here in 4 Kerrville will be on Tuesday, September 26th, at 7 p.m. at 5 the U.G.R.A. auditorium. Without any -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, let me add one 7 thing, just so people understand what the hearing is. 8 It's -- because it's a little bit different from some of our 9 other hearings. This is a -- is a State plan; we're 10 obligated by law to have a hearing to receive comments. The 11 format of the hearing will be, there will be a -- you know, 12 a few opening remarks and overview of the draft, which will 13 probably take about 45 minutes, and then we'll receive 14 comments from people. We're not going to get into a 15 discussion at that time; we're not going to take any 16 questions that we're going to answer. It's just a matter of 17 receiving comments, and all of the comments will then be 18 incorporated into the plan, the final draft of which will be 19 available, I think, sometime in December, we'll have it 20 ready again. That's just what the format of what the public 21 hearing is about. It will be an overview and then just to 22 receive comments. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Without any further ado, 24 let's turn to the approval agenda. We have some bills to 25 pay. Does anyone have any questions of the Auditor 8 1 regarding the bills as presented? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. I do. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: We don't have the bills here; 4 they're locked in the Treasurer's office. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice try, Tommy. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: And she's not here. I might 7 can answer your question if you direct me to the right -- to 8 the page. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I thought you 10 said, "I'm not going to answer your question." Well, the 11 Sheriff's here; it's really directed to him. Page 4, County 12 Jail. The fourth one down, it's a payment to Rusty 13 Hierholzer for a James Avery cross and necklace. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I know what that is. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Replace that -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not for me. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: An inmate inventoried a 18 necklace when -- when it was booked. When -- at release, 19 the necklace was not to be found, so we reimbursed that 20 person for -- for the necklace. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there anyone in 22 jail for having it? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I can't answer that part of 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there anyone else 9 1 in jail wearing that one? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There better not be. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's all the 4 questions I had. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 6 questions of our Auditor regarding the bills as presented? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 10 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve payment of 11 the bills as presented and recommended by the Auditor. Any 12 further comments or questions? If not, all in favor, raise 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 18 amendments. Number 1 is regarding Rabies and Animal 19 Control. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I have a request from 21 Marc Allen, supervisor, to transfer $1,000 from Part-Time 22 Salaries to Operating Expenses. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 1 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 2 Budget Amendment Request Number 1 for Rabies and Animal 3 Control. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 4 favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 2 9 relates to the Law Library. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: We have a current bill for 11 $2,472.77. We have a shortfall in that -- in that fund for 12 books for $362.50. We need to increase that budget by 13 $2,835.27. And that would -- that would be to increase the 14 budget for -- for the Law Library. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: These funds would come from 16 the Law Library dedicated fund; is that correct? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct, yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 21 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we declare an 22 emergency and take $2,835.27 from the Law Library fund and 23 move it to Line Item 18-650-590. Any further comments? If 24 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 4 relates to the County Jail. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The first part of this 6 is to move $992.99 from Cooks Salary in the Jail, $956.55 to 7 Part-Time Salaries and $36.44 to Overtime. And the next 8 part is to move $26.53 from Machine Repairs to Lease Copier. 9 Next part is to move $28.23 from Machine Repairs to Indigent 10 Care. Next request is to move $304.38 from Employee Medical 11 into Trash Service. The last part is to move $50 from 12 System Administrator out of the Sheriff's budget to -- $50 13 to Lease Copier in the Sheriff's budget. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 17 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 18 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for the County Jail. Any 19 further discussion? If not, all in favor, raise your -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One quick question. I 21 was just curious as to how we ended up with that healthy 22 balance in Cooks Salary. Did we not cook? Or -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. All I can say is 24 it appears to me it was just an overbudget from last year. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 12 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: An overbudget that's been 2 corrected in your requested budget, right? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, that was the 4 point of my question. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further comments or 6 questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Request 11 Number 4 is for the Sheriff's Department and the County 12 Jail. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: For the Sheriff's Department, 14 we have bills for Vehicle Gas and Oil for $3,199.93. We 15 need $167.49 in Prisoner Meals in the jail, and $351.30 in 16 Prisoner Transfer. I don't have an offset on this page for 17 that, but I'm recommending that we take it from the Radio 18 line item in the Sheriff's Department. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who are we taking -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just ask, couldn't 23 we take the bottom two from Cooks Salary? Just -- 24 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- offhand, I don't 25 know what -- how much is in there. 13 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's one -- well, it 2 showed $1,176 prior to the last one, so -- it doesn't make 3 that much difference. I mean, it's coming from somewhere. 4 If Larry wants to -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. I mean, I know 6 it's -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Looks like we could take it 8 all from Cooks Salary. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure could. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't know. If you 11 do that, then you get into a discussion of, well, how much 12 more do we have to pay the cook before the fiscal year? So, 13 the Radio fund is there, and my motion still stands. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My second still 15 stands. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 17 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 18 Budget Amendment Request Number 4, with the funds to come 19 from the Radio Communications line item. Any further 20 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 21 right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Request 14 1 Number 5 is from Commissioners Court. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I have a bill for -- 3 for notices to a local paper. We need to transfer $85.67 4 from Capital Outlay into Notices to pay that bill. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 8 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve Budget 9 Amendment Request Number 5 to Commissioners Court. Any 10 further comments? If not, all in favor raise your right 11 hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Request 16 Number 6 is from the 216th District Court. We've been given 17 a revised version of that. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The first part is to 19 transfer $2,634.56 from Special Trials. $300 goes to Court 20 Transcripts for the 198th District Court. $250.06 goes to 21 Special Court Reporter line item in the 198th District 22 Court. The next part is to transfer $2,659 from 23 Court-Appointed Attorneys in the 198th court to the same 24 line item in the 216th court. I do have a late bill with 25 this for $2,082.50 to Cindy Snider. 15 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 4 second by Commissioner Williams, that we approve Budget 5 Amendment Request Number 6 and authorize a late bill payable 6 to Cindy Snider. Any further questions or comments? If 7 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 7 is 12 for J.P. 1. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This request is from 14 Judge Elliott to transfer $320 from Software Maintenance to 15 Capital Outlay. The next part is to transfer $300 from 16 Office Supplies and $200 from Training and $97.62 from 17 Computer Supplies, all of that to Dockets and Forms, a total 18 of $597.62. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 22 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 23 Budget Amendment Request Number 7. Any further comments or 24 questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One question. What's the 16 1 Capital Outlay item? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have that. I don't 3 know what that is. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge Elliott? 5 JUDGE ELLIOTT: Distinguished Commissioner, 6 that Capital Outlay item is for a file cabinet that is 7 broken and is in disrepair in the office. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 10 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 8 15 relates to District Clerk. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: This is -- this request is 17 from the District Clerk to transfer $10 from Lease Copier to 18 Machine Repair. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 22 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget 23 Amendment Request Number 8 for the District Clerk. Any 24 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 25 your right hand. 17 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 9 5 relates to the Agricultural Extension Office. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from Eddie 7 Holland to transfer $665 from Capital Outlay and $275 from 8 Machine Repair to Part-time Salaries, a total of $940. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 12 seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve Budget 13 Amendment Request Number 9 for the Agricultural Extension 14 Service. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 15 favor, raise your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 10 is 20 for the County Treasurer. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: The Treasurer requests us to 22 transfer $430 from Telephone line item and $15 from Employee 23 Training to Part-Time Salaries, a total of $445. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 18 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 2 second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget 3 Amendment Request Number 10 for the County Treasurer. Any 4 further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right 5 hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 11 10 relates to Jail Maintenance. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: This amendment is an 12 accumulation of bills totaling $2,178.09 for Jail 13 Maintenance. We had the choice of -- of moving that from 14 the Radio Communications line item in the Sheriff's Office, 15 or declare an emergency and -- and increase the budget by 16 that amount. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move we approve it 18 and take the money from the Radio line item. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 22 Budget Amendment Request Number 11, and take the funds from 23 the Radio Communications line item. Any further questions 24 or comments? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Excuse me. I have a -- I do 19 1 have a late bill. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: On that item? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: In this item, and it's to 4 Tivy Carpet Cleaning Company for $225. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does your motion include that 6 late bill? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My second does. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: The motion on the floor is to 10 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 11 and to take -- 11 take the funds from the Radio Communications line item and 12 to issue a late bill in favor of the Tivy Carpet Cleaning. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Thank you. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 15 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Any more 20 late bills? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: It's to Singer and Altgelt 24 Insurance Agency. It's for $115. It's for liability 25 coverage for the Kerr County Youth Services annual garage 20 1 sale. This is for -- from the Child Services Board, is what 2 this is for. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 6 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 7 the late bill on behalf the insurance company. Any further 8 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 9 right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We have no minutes to 14 approve. At this time, I would entertain a motion to accept 15 and approve monthly reports as presented. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 20 and accept for filing the monthly reports as presented. Any 21 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 22 your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 21 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We'll now 2 move into the consideration agenda. The first item is to 3 consider and discuss annual report from Kerrville Chamber of 4 Commerce. Ms. Cunningham, good evening. 5 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good evening, Judge, 6 Commissioners. For the record, I'm Sherry Cunningham. I'm 7 President of the Kerrville Area Chamber of Commerce, and 8 also the Kerr Economic Development Foundation. I live at 9 934 Bluebonnet in Kerrville. Our Chairman, Don Kendrick, 10 could not be here tonight, so I'm filling in for him. Twice 11 each year it is customary for us to come and give you kind 12 of an update on what is going on through the Kerr Economic 13 Development Foundation, and that's why I'm here tonight. 14 And, beginning this, I do want to tell you 15 how much we appreciate the support we received from the 16 Commissioners Court and all of the help that you give us 17 throughout the year. I believe that most of you realize 18 that the majority of our work is concentrated on the 19 retention and expansion of our existing businesses and 20 employers, but we're always open and ready to assist those 21 who want to come our way. And, you know, our goal is to not 22 only keep our employers happy and -- and keep them here, but 23 also to help broaden that tax base. 24 We try to keep up with what's going on 25 throughout the business community, because we believe that 22 1 it's much easier to keep those who are here than it is to go 2 out and find ones to replace them. One of the ways that we 3 do that is through our Industry Relations Team, and this 4 year that was headed by Ted Conerly, and they personally 5 contacted all of the major employers in Kerr County to 6 discuss -- kind of get a grip on what was going on, and I've 7 put a copy of that report in your packet tonight, so you can 8 read through that at your leisure. 9 Also, I would like to say thank you for all 10 the fine help and assistance that we received in working 11 with Chapman Building Products. We are all pleased that 12 they have decided to make Kerrville their new home, and 13 Steve and Cindy Chapman started working on this about 10 14 months ago, and Commissioner Williams was in on that from 15 the beginning. And, Bill, I certainly appreciate all you 16 did for us in that. I think this is a great company for our 17 community, and we're excited about being able to go forward 18 with the Texas Capital Fund application, and -- and that has 19 been turned in and now we -- we wait to see what -- what 20 comes from that and see what the next step is. And I'll 21 keep you posted on that. 22 A lot of our work over the last six months 23 has been focused on physician recruitment. As you very well 24 know, health care is a probably the largest employer in our 25 community, and it's very important that we have the health 23 1 care services that we need to support our community. We've 2 also been working on establishing a multi-use business park 3 in this area, as well as our independent relations effort. 4 One thing that's coming up on the calendar 5 that I would like to encourage you to participate in and to 6 attend -- and, Commissioner Letz, I played telephone tag 7 with you for a while, and that is what I was wanting to talk 8 to you about, and that's -- we're going to be hosting what 9 we call a Transportation Roundtable on September 28th over 10 the lunch hour. And, basically, what we want to do at that 11 time is to invite employers, businesses, elected officials, 12 different ones to come together around the table and talk 13 about the different transportation issues that we think that 14 we're going to be dealing with over -- in the future. 15 Too often, when we go to the Texas Department 16 of Transportation meetings, the TIP meetings, the 17 Transportation Improvement Program meetings, that we'll find 18 somebody show up that -- you know, with something that we 19 weren't aware of. And so, in talking with Bill Tucker and 20 different ones on our governmental relations team, we feel 21 like maybe we just need to have a session where we just kind 22 of throw a lot of things on the table and then spend some 23 time trying to prioritize those, so we'll have a -- a 24 unified effort when we go to those programs. As you well 25 know, it's really hard to get -- get projects in that -- in 24 1 that effort, and so we want to make sure that we have 2 everything that we need that we're going to be looking at in 3 the future. 4 In closing tonight, I do want to compliment 5 you on all the work that you've done on the Ag Barn complex. 6 I know you're going to be talking about that in a little 7 bit, so I'm not going to linger on that, but I just -- I 8 just think that's great, and I really appreciate the -- the 9 effort and the leadership that you've given to that, and the 10 time that you've committed to that, and I think it's a great 11 undertaking. Again, I just want to thank you for all the 12 time and effort. I'm not going to -- I know you have a long 13 agenda; I'm not going to go into much else, unless you have 14 some questions. I'll be more than glad to try to answer 15 those for you tonight, or, you know, my door's always open. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Does anyone have 17 any questions of Sherry? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks, Sherry. 19 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Appreciate you. Thanks. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Next item on the 21 agenda is to consider and discuss a report on the status of 22 Christmas Lighting Committee's activities and plans for the 23 2000 holiday season. Commissioner Williams. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I think it's 25 only appropriate -- with the temperature 100 degrees 25 1 outside, and having had no rain for 59 straight days, and 2 our grass crispy-crunchy underneath our feet, it's only 3 appropriate that we should be talking about Christmas 4 lighting and bring it forward to update the Court. What I'd 5 like to do is introduce to you the president of the 6 newly-formed Christmas -- Kerrville Christmas Lighting 7 Corporation, Charter Number 01586069, a nonprofit 8 corporation of the State of Texas. And the new president of 9 that organization is Jim Murphy, and others of his board of 10 directors are sitting back there; General Walter Schellhase, 11 our good friend, Al Donaubauer, and former Commissioner, Ray 12 Lehmann. Mr. Murphy, would you come up and tell us about 13 it? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Somebody else, too. Mindy. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, Mindy. Mindy. 16 Hello, Mindy. 17 MR. MURPHY: Thank you, gentlemen, for 18 allowing us to come tonight. We appreciate what you've done 19 over the past years relative to the Christmas lighting 20 program, and this year we're going expand a little. I'm not 21 going to go into it fully, because General Schellhase will 22 cover that part of it, but we are intending -- one thing we 23 are intending to do is to light the new portion of the 24 courthouse, or shall I say the newly-constructed -- not 25 constructed, but newly-expanded portion. If -- if it's 26 1 finished by then. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 3 MR. MURPHY: I put that in there just for 4 that purpose. But, do you have any questions that you'd 5 like to -- to ask of me? Otherwise, I'm going to turn it 6 over to Walter. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me draw you 8 out on a couple things, Jim, before Walter does. The new 9 corporation is intended to function as a nonprofit -- 10 MR. MURPHY: That's right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And solicit funds, as 12 it has in the past, through the generosity of people to 13 donate to the ongoing effort. And, you're making it a 14 501(c)(3) so that these things can become a tax deduction 15 for those good folks; is that correct? 16 MR. MURPHY: We should have that very 17 shortly. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that called 19 leading the witness, Judge? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: No comment. 21 MR. MURPHY: The lights will be turned on, 22 for your information, on November the 25th at 5:30 p.m., and 23 there will be some mail-outs in your phone bills, in both 24 the Hill Country and the Kerrville Telephone Company's, in 25 late September, so that -- that will be your opportunity to 27 1 put in a little cash in our -- that we'll need for the first 2 things, because there are going to be -- we're going to add 3 lights to the bigger trees. And I'm probably cutting into 4 Walter's area, so I'll ask Walter -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone else have any 6 questions of Mr. Murphy? 7 MR. MURPHY: Do you have any questions? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have one real quick one, 9 Jim. There's -- as I recall, there's an official Hill 10 Country Christmas lighting tour or organization. 11 MR. MURPHY: Yes, there is. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are we -- are we going to 13 become members of that? 14 MR. MURPHY: No, because it is my 15 understanding that they do not want anyone that's south of 16 I-10. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Well, that answers 18 that. General Schellhase? 19 MR. SCHELLHASE: Walter Schellhase, 529 Water 20 Street, Kerrville. What I'd like to do is to give you a 21 quick overview of what we now have and what we're going to 22 add to the courthouse this year. 23 MR. SIEMERS: Could you go to the right and 24 use the easel? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's see if we can enlist 28 1 the Sheriff's help. There you go. 2 MR. SCHELLHASE: What we now have, as you 3 know, we have these four large trees fully decorated, wired. 4 We did not take those down; they're still in the trees, and 5 we -- what we put up was about a 5-year guarantee, and we 6 expect about a 7-year life, so this will be going into the 7 second year. All of the other trees that are still 8 remaining, we have lights around the base of them, as well 9 as the power poles or the lamp poles that are out in the 10 yard. 11 This year we -- this past year, we had the 12 courthouse lighted from top to bottom, from this point just 13 around the corner right here over to the magnolia tree back 14 in the back. We do not go any further right here because of 15 these large pecan trees. I bring it up again this year; you 16 really need to get those trees removed -- but that's a 17 heartburn, I understand -- so that we can decorate it 18 properly and we won't lose this corner of the courthouse 19 sooner or later. So, that's the courthouse as we had it 20 last year. 21 This coming year, we have a large, animated 22 Santa Claus sled and three reindeers that are to be located 23 on the west side of the entry to the courthouse. That 24 display is 11 by 25 feet, animated. On the east side of the 25 entrance to the courthouse, we have an animated Santa 29 1 stagecoach and some horses, animated horses. That display 2 is 11 feet by 32 feet. We have two animated snowmen, 10 by 3 14 in size, surrounded by big, lighted snowflakes. So, 4 those will be the permanent displays that we will maintain 5 year-to-year. These have been purchased by local 6 businesses, which will be used over a 5-year period of time. 7 Again, these are all guaranteed by the supplier for five 8 years. On the top of the courthouse, on the jail penthouse, 9 we will have a "Seasons Greetings" sign that measures 4 feet 10 by 50 feet, so it will reach from end-to-end of the 11 penthouse on the courthouse side. For all of the outside 12 lighting, we have the -- all of the wiring in place, so 13 there will not be anything required there, except we want to 14 put a few more lights on these four trees this year. 15 Now, for the annex and the addition, we want 16 to string lights the same as on the main courthouse, from 17 the roof of the courthouse down to the handrail. Can you 18 see that, Larry? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 20 MR. SCHELLHASE: These strings of lights 21 would be 16 inches on center from front to back, and will 22 match up with the courthouse as it now exists. These are 23 the large pecan trees out here to the side. We'll attach 24 them to the handrail on the east and the west side of the 25 courthouse, and the hooks could be placed permanently in the 30 1 capstone, as we did in the main courthouse last year; those 2 hooks are still there. 3 I'd also like to mention, in -- as you talk 4 about the renovation of the courthouse, in reviewing the 5 plans, I see you have a note on the plans to replace all of 6 the hooks, remove all of the hooks and devices on the 7 courthouse and patch the holes. We hope that does not 8 include the permanent ones we just put on the courthouse on 9 the backside of the parapet wall to have permanent. And, 10 that was the intent. I have spoken to Mike Walker about 11 that when I saw it in the plans, and thought we ought to 12 address that, because we would hate to have those removed. 13 What those are, are 2-inch rope hooks. They're in with two 14 large anchors into the capstone, and should be there for 15 years to come. 16 We have one -- only one indication of a 17 problem, that -- and I also talked to both the supervising 18 architect down here and the -- and Mike Walker -- is from 19 the end of the railing to the back of the courthouse, there 20 are plans somewhere down the line to string a cable to put a 21 warning bar across it so trucks of so height -- so much 22 height will not go under them. It will hit something to let 23 them know that they're exceeding the capacity of the -- the 24 archway or the passageway in the back. So, the request was 25 made, would we put that cable in permanently so it could be 31 1 used for the attachment of that warning bar at a later time, 2 and I see a problem with that, because that -- that would be 3 an attempt to hang those wires that exceed into the 4 courthouse. 5 We have two options to go by; draping them, 6 as we show in red right here, or going straight down, as in 7 green. Straight down in green, we would put the same hook 8 anchor we have in the retaining -- the foundation wall at 9 the base of the building that we have now, the same as we 10 did on the top of the parapet wall over here. We prefer the 11 draping, 'cause we think it will be a little bit better. 12 This one is somewhat restricted, because where there's an 13 opening, we would not be able to place them. There's 14 several openings, the large doors on the west side and the 15 large doors on the east side, so we'd have to skip those 16 areas; we wouldn't be able to place them. 17 This will be the front of the courthouse and 18 this will -- is about the size of the "Seasons Greetings" 19 sign that will be lighted and on the top of the penthouse. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Any questions of 21 General Schellhase -- oh, he's not done yet. 22 MR. SCHELLHASE: This is -- one more. I 23 wanted to show you the details of -- of what we have. This 24 would be the -- the large rope hook on the back of the 25 parapet wall, all anchored in the stone and not through the 32 1 flashing. We use a plastic tubing over the wire on the top 2 of the capstone to prevent any damage to that or to the 3 wire, and we place a piece of plastic at this point right 4 here where it passes over the soffit to prevent the same 5 thing. This is where they would be located on the new 6 courthouse. This is the detail that -- if we were to go 7 with the green outline, to put the rope hook down at the 8 bottom next to that curb, which we prefer not to do because 9 of the hazard of it being there. This is if we would hook 10 it on the rail across the top. 11 The horizontal lights are all permanent -- 12 permanently fastened with clear silicone, which will also 13 last the 5 to 7 years that we expect out of those, so there 14 will be no damage to any of that. The electrical on the 15 annex, we've gone over that with the -- with Keith 16 Longnecker, as well as Glenn, and we would like to do the 17 same thing on the roof of the courthouse that we did on the 18 roof of this building; put in a single panel, lighted, with 19 a timer on it for all of those lights with pigtails out the 20 bottom of it, so all we have to do is plug the lights in. 21 And, that remains; that would be permanent from now on. And 22 it would appear we have enough electrical to do that on the 23 roof. That's where we stand at this time. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Very good. Any questions? 25 Comments? 33 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ambitious. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sounds like a good 3 plan. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: General, thank you. 5 Thank you, Jim, Ray. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll look forward to the 7 completion. All right. Next item is Item Number 3, 8 consider and discuss resolution supporting a proposal by 9 Kerrville V.A. Medical Center for selection as a pilot 10 program for long-term care by the U. S. Department of 11 Veterans Affairs. 12 Very quickly, South Texas Veterans Health 13 Care Center has proposed submitting an application on behalf 14 of the Kerrville V.A. Medical facility to put a pilot 15 program for long-term care for veterans at our excellent 16 facility. A bill that passed last winter, I believe, 17 authorized pilot programs to see if they could -- throughout 18 the country, to see if they could develop a better model for 19 long-term health care for veterans. Mr. Coronado had a 20 meeting of the local officials, including the Veterans 21 Council at the V.A., last Monday, I believe it was, and 22 outlined a proposal. 23 It looks like an excellent proposal. It 24 would be more of a regional center than just Kerrville. As 25 proposed, essentially what it would do would be to add a 34 1 70-bed assisted living facility at the current Kerrville 2 V.A. Medical facility. It would involve relocating one of 3 the existing long-term nursing units, resulting in 4 approximately 65 additional jobs out at the V.A. Hospital, 5 both for the V.A. and for the contractor. The assisted 6 living facility would be contracted, as opposed to run by 7 the V.A. That's actually an advantage, as far as many of us 8 are concerned, because as a contracted facility, the spouse 9 of a veteran would be able to have a room at the assisted 10 living facility along with the veteran. If it was purely a 11 veterans' facility, only the veteran could take advantage of 12 the facilities at the assisted living. 13 I presented this to the Alamo Area Council of 14 Governments last Wednesday. The board voted to instruct the 15 Executive Director to send a letter to the V.A. supporting 16 this application by our local facility. We've also received 17 at least one Commissioners Court resolution from a 18 surrounding county, and I expect we'll receive resolutions 19 from all -- most, if not all, of the surrounding counties in 20 support of this application. General, is there anything you 21 want to add, sir? 22 MR. SCHELLHASE: Thank you, Judge. On 23 September 21st we will have Dr. Garrett here, who presented 24 that program, in town with the Veterans Council, and any of 25 those that would like to attend that meeting, she's going to 35 1 give an updating brief as to what that package contained as 2 it went forward to Washington, and at that time tell us what 3 support they need from the local community, other than the 4 letters you're working on now. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is a very short time 6 fuse. The applications basically have to be finished by 7 September the 15th, which is why we are really cranking on 8 it. So, does anyone have any questions or comments 9 regarding the proposed resolution? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we propose -- 11 approve the resolution as presented. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 14 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve the 15 resolution as presented. Any further questions or comments? 16 If -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be happy to vote 18 for it, Judge, if we have them correct the spelling of my 19 name. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can correct it. Assuming 21 that we get Commissioner Williams' name spelled correctly, 22 all in favor, raise your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 36 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carried. Thank you. 2 The next item is Item Number 4, which is consider and 3 discuss the adoption of Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center 4 Master Plan developed by Quorum Architects of Fort Worth, 5 Texas, as recommended by the Long-Range Master Plan 6 Committee, and discuss how the Commissioners Court will 7 proceed with implementing the Master Plan. Commissioner 8 Letz, either you or Commissioner Williams want to lead off? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Williams. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's been a long time 11 coming. We've worked a long time on developing the plan, 12 and a good number of the committee people are here. I would 13 ask, if they would, to please stand and be recognized by the 14 Court for the hard work and the many hours you put into 15 developing this plan. Those who are here, please -- I don't 16 wants to call a name, 'cause I'll miss somebody. Thank you 17 very much. 18 (Applause.) 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge and members of 20 the Court, we're at the point where I think it's important 21 that the Court takes a good, hard look at the plan and 22 accepts the plan, and perhaps instructs us -- gives us some 23 instruction as to how to proceed with implementation if we, 24 in fact, accept it. We have had it before a couple good 25 audiences here. You recall we did unveil it at the Ag Barn 37 1 in front of 75 or 80 people, and the reception at that 2 meeting was very good. We took it to the City Council, with 3 our representative from the City, Mindy Wendele, and I 4 believe it's safe to say the City Council's reaction to it 5 was favorable, in terms of the need for such a plan and the 6 design or the concept as laid out here. We took the plan 7 out and presented it to the Chamber of Commerce and the KEDF 8 Board of Directors at their recent year-long -- or yearly 9 planning session, and the reaction that we measured that day 10 was also quite positive. 11 This is a plan designed to enhance the Youth 12 Stock Show's facility that they use annually, to give them a 13 facility, really, that is twice the size of anything that 14 they have worked with heretofore. It is intended to be a 15 public events facility. By that, I mean it offers us the 16 opportunity to book in shows and conventions and meetings 17 and other types of entertainment, and any number of things 18 that we cannot now do. It's a multi-purpose facility. It 19 has its orientation in agriculture. It is designed to take 20 care of all the equine events that you can possibly think 21 of. It was designed to handle a convention of greater size 22 than anything we can do in Kerr County right now. It will 23 allow us to seat at a banquet, if we wish to do so, up to 24 1,000 people, which is twice the size of anything that is 25 available to any organization in Kerr County today. 38 1 It's a heated and air-conditioned 2 multi-purpose arena, which can take care of everything up 3 to, through, and including PRCA rodeos, seat 3,500 people on 4 the sides in air-conditioned comfort, or we could even 5 entertain the Tivy High School graduation on the floor and 6 seat the entire student body out there with plenty of room 7 to spare. Or, as somebody noted at one of our recent 8 meetings, if George Strait wanted to come down here, we 9 could take care of him, too, in a concert setting. So, I 10 put this before the Court tonight for its consideration in 11 terms of accepting or -- or approving the Master Plan 12 concept as devised and developed by Quorum Architects. And 13 I think we need to decide how -- or if and how we wish to 14 proceed, to figure out a way to -- to make this happen if 15 the Court wants it to happen. 16 If I can take one more minute, Commissioner, 17 we had talked about -- and I know somebody's going to ask, 18 so I'll just throw it out there -- how are you going to 19 finance something like this? We're not certain exactly how 20 we're going to finance it, but there are several avenues 21 that we wish to explore. Certainly, we wish to explore 22 acceptance and cooperation and participation, if at all 23 possible, with the City of Kerrville, 'cause this benefits 24 every business, any and all businesses in the city of 25 Kerrville and Kerr County as a whole. We wish to explore 39 1 grants, particularly grants that have orientation for youth 2 and youth activities or agriculture and agricultural-related 3 activities. We wish to explore just outright gifts, if that 4 is out there. And, of course, we figure that there is 5 another chunk of money going to be needed, and I think we 6 want to take a hard look at whether or not it is feasible to 7 levy a bed tax, hotel/motel tax all across Kerr County, 8 which would help us do this. So, we need to explore all 9 these things. We need to know what kind of money we need, 10 what kind of money is available, and what we can attract up 11 front so that we know if, as, and when there is any 12 borrowing to be done, we'll know, one, how much that is, and 13 two, how to pay it back. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You've pretty much said 15 everything. I just -- you know, I'd probably like to thank 16 everyone on the committee for all their hard work in putting 17 this plan together. I think it's a very workable plan. 18 It's a lot of money to get built, but I think there are ways 19 to raise that amount of money and not overly burden -- well, 20 'cause I don't want to raise ad valorem taxes. So, I think 21 that it's a doable plan. I think my biggest concern now is 22 to kind of get together on the Court and figure out how 23 we're going to proceed. And the number one, I guess, 24 priority that I would have would be to go back, you know, to 25 the -- well, we had members of the Stock Show Association on 40 1 the committee; to go back to that board, who have spent so 2 much time and money and hours out there already, to get an 3 agreement with them and get them fully behind the plan, and 4 then -- then go right -- you know, proceed from there. But, 5 I think the -- that facility was originally intended to be 6 used for the youth in the community, and I think that we 7 need to go back to the Stock Show Association, and probably 8 4-H as well, and get them signed on board. 9 I know the Stock Show Association -- that we 10 have talked over the last year about we need to get a 11 written agreement with them as to -- we started out talking 12 about chairs and stalls, and it's probably grown, you know, 13 to getting into use of a facility long-term. And I think we 14 can probably, you know, work in that direction. I've had 15 some preliminary talks with the president of that 16 association, Bob Dittmar, and we'll, you know, plan as they 17 come up some sort of a draft and bring it to the Court, 18 which would be basically just putting it in writing what 19 we're already doing out there. I think that's always a wise 20 way to proceed. But, overall, I think it's a great plan, I 21 think it's doable, and I -- hopefully we can get it done. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other Commissioners have 23 any comments at this time? Larry? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Would you see the next 25 step as -- as having something prepared so that the Court 41 1 can look at a phased program with some phase costing 2 associated with it, so we can look at some of those, how we 3 might raise the money kind of things? I know there are 4 three phases to the project, but is that Phase I of a 3-year 5 deal, and -- and about how much money would be required and 6 how -- what are the potential money sources for that? Seems 7 like, to me, we've got to get to that kind of a 8 decision-making tree before we can -- we can come up with 9 something. Does that sound reasonable? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It does. And I think 11 we have to identify sources of revenue along with that. I 12 think we have to determine, Commissioner, whether it is a 13 project that -- that we want to stretch over a -- several 14 years to do, or to do it, but do it in the construction 15 phases that the consulting firm has recommended, and if so, 16 how to fund that accordingly. One of the things I think we 17 probably we would like to do is see whether or not there are 18 grant monies out there that are available to help us get 19 through the soft costs up front, which would help us do what 20 you want to do and identify the absolute costs. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So I think that's a 23 must to get to us that point. What I would hope the Court 24 would entertain tonight would be a subcommittee of this 25 Court to work out the details and explore all these avenues 42 1 and come back with something that the Court can -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think probably -- I 3 mean, a subcommittee is probably the best way to develop 4 a -- who to talk to, in what order, and bring that back to 5 the Court and make sure everyone's -- you know, I think it's 6 real important that the Court stays more involved than we 7 are sometimes in projects, because -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- any wrong turns can be 10 disastrous with something like this. I mean, I think 11 putting all our thoughts together would be better. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would make the 13 motion that we accept -- accept the plan for consideration 14 and appoint Commissioners Williams and Letz to act as that 15 subcommittee to the Court and be able to bring that 16 explanation back to us. And I bet I know I know where I'll 17 get a second. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that 19 motion. Definitely. That was very good. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm learning from the 21 master. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was thinking about 23 voting against this thing till you did it that way. I do 24 have a comment. As you know, I did vote against the -- the 25 concept the first time around because I wasn't sure -- 43 1 wasn't clear in my mind that the youth agricultural people 2 in our county was going to be taken care of like they 3 should, like the building was -- the land was obtained by 4 the County and buildings built, et cetera, for that purpose. 5 I have recently visited with the Stock Show folks and the 6 4-H folks and Commissioner Letz and Commissioner Williams, 7 and I just -- they've convinced me that -- that the 8 agricultural youth in our community will -- will receive a 9 preferential treatment in the facility, and it's not -- I'm 10 convinced that it's not someone trying to take over our 11 playground, but make our playground larger. Thank you; I 12 borrowed that from Commissioner Williams. But -- so I feel 13 good about it. I'm going to vote for it. It is still in 14 the concept -- the vote is on the concept plan. So, charge. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 16 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 17 adopt -- adopt the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center 18 Master Plan, as recommended by the Long-Range Master Plan 19 Committee, and appoint Commissioners Letz and Williams to 20 serve as a subcommittee to bring back what I'll call a 21 schedule or timeline of implementation. Before we actually 22 vote on that, is there any member in the audience who has 23 something that they would like to offer at this time? Any 24 questions or comments? Yes, ma'am, come forward and 25 identify yourself. 44 1 MS. PENA: My name is Sandra Pena, and I live 2 in southeastern Kerr County. This looks like an exciting 3 plan, and the comment that I would like to make is I heard 4 Commissioner Williams say that the County's looking for 5 additional revenue sources to support this. And we all know 6 the City is looking for additional water resources, and 7 they're looking at additional ASR wells. So, of course, I'm 8 here to propose that you consider seriously collecting 9 rainwater on this facility. My husband and I recently 10 measured the current Ag Barn. It contains approximately 11 200,000 square feet of roof surface. In an average year of 12 rainfall, which we're not having right now, but in an 13 average year, you would collect 4.2 million gallons of water 14 off that roof. If this facility is going to be double that 15 size, you're talking about 8 or 9 million gallons of water. 16 The City would probably be interested in that, and perhaps 17 would agree to store it in one of their additional ASR wells 18 if they come to pass. So, I just wanted to offer that 19 comment, that there is a way here, perhaps, for to you get 20 some additional revenue by selling your water to the City. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Ms. Pena. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to thank you, 23 Sandy. And, for those of you who do not know, Sandy and her 24 husband Rob live on top of a hill in my precinct way out 25 there in the eastern -- southeastern part of the county, and 45 1 they are those who perfect this business of capturing 2 rainwater for their own domestic uses for -- for the long 3 haul. And, it might please you to note that the last thing 4 we instructed the architect to do was think about catching 5 that water in whatever type of system we call that. I'm not 6 sure we'd sell it to the City, but I bet you we could sure 7 use it on the premises. 8 MS. PENA: Absolutely. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Sandy. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you again. Any other 11 comments or questions? Sherry? 12 MS. CUNNINGHAM: I just want to reiterate 13 that whenever you presented this project to members of our 14 board, and also the Chamber and the K.E.D.F. Board, that I 15 have received no negative comments on this, and I just think 16 that's a real plus, and I really hope that you go ahead, and 17 we'll do whatever we can to help you with that. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Anyone else? 19 Yes, sir? 20 MR. DITTMAR: I'm Bob Dittmar. I'm currently 21 serving as the president of the Hill Country District Junior 22 Livestock Show Association, and I just wanted to step up 23 here and sort of reiterate what Commissioner Letz had 24 brought up; that the facility that exists now was -- was 25 developed and financed by the Stock Show Association way 46 1 back when, and we would hope that the Court would keep that 2 in consideration when you develop this plan. And, we'd 3 definitely like to pursue some agreement between the Stock 4 Show Association and the County or the City, whoever 5 develops this, as we go along. I think that's very 6 pertinent -- important before we go too much further. Thank 7 you. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Bob. Anyone else? 9 All right. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One thing. I don't 11 think -- I think the motion was to accept, and you said 12 adopt. I don't know if there's any difference in the words 13 "accept" and "adopt." 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Whatever. Make it 15 adopt if that makes it -- we adopt the plan. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't make any 17 difference. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We don't have to do 19 anything, 'cause we're adopting a plan; we're not adopting 20 the financing or anything at this point. Whatever works. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion as announced was 22 "adopt," so we'll adopt. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We'll adopt. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your 25 right hand. 47 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carried. Thank you. 5 That's good work. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you again, 7 committee. Appreciate your efforts. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 5, 9 which is to consider and discuss setting a time for special 10 joint meeting with U.G.R.A. Board of Directors to discuss 11 matters of mutual concern. I've received a letter from the 12 U.G.R.A. Board requesting that the Board and the 13 Commissioners Court sit down at a mutually agreeable time 14 and talk about some items that relate to both of our 15 missions. One of the items that will come up is the status 16 of the U.G.R.A. management of the O.S.S.F. program and 17 extension of that contract. The contract has one year to 18 run from this September 30th, expiring on September 30, 19 2001. 20 Another potential item of conversation is the 21 status of the U.G.R.A.'s wastewater long-term plan for the 22 unincorporated areas of the county, and another potential 23 item for discussion would be U.G.R.A.'s interest in using 24 the three lakes that Kerr County owns for purposes of ground 25 management and water conservation in diversion points. We 48 1 all know it's difficult for a committee, or particularly two 2 committees, to set dates and agendas for anything, but I 3 think that this is a request that we should honor. I do not 4 know if the Court wants to delegate to myself or to a 5 subcommittee the authority to set a date and an agenda, or 6 how the Court wishes to proceed. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, I'd like to 8 make the motion that -- that we authorize you, the County 9 Judge, to get with the U.G.R.A. folks, decide on a time, 10 date, and place, and an agenda, and let's press on. I think 11 this is a good idea. But -- but, just to shorten the fuse 12 on that a little bit, I think it would be wise for you just 13 to be able to get with Jim Brown or whoever and come up with 14 a -- come up with an agenda and the whole thing, and just 15 announce it to us. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 17 You'd be working out the agenda with the board president of 18 U.G.R.A.? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As opposed to Jim? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I did that in the form 23 of a motion, if we need one. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second it. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 49 1 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 2 agree to a joint meeting with U.G.R.A. Board of Directors, 3 and authorize the County Judge to negotiate the time and the 4 agenda. County Judge will say that he will welcome any 5 suggestions from the Commissioners as to proper items for 6 the agenda. Any further questions or comments? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is that 8 if you can give us as much lead time as to when it's going 9 to be as possible, rather -- I mean, at least a week, so we 10 can adjust. I think it's important for me; I certainly -- 11 you understand, my schedule gets filled-in in a hurry. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let me just ask, for 13 informational purposes, if the Commissioners would prefer to 14 have an evening meeting or afternoon or morning meeting. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Evening meeting is 16 fine. Stay away from Thursdays and Fridays. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thursdays and Fridays aren't 18 going to go anywhere. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Evening is fine for me. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Might be easier for us all to 21 get together if we do it in the evening. Okay, I'll take 22 that as -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But if it -- if we can 24 get it -- a meeting easier with them, I think we ought to 25 consider both afternoon and morning times as well, but 50 1 evening if they can make it, and -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Motion's been made and 3 seconded. All in favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. All right. 8 Item Number 6 is from Sheriff Hierholzer, consider and 9 discuss declaring two Dodge Monaco cars and all seized 10 vehicles as surplus property. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think y'all got a 12 package on some of this. And, as you can tell, we have two 13 1990 Dodge Monacos. One of them's in running condition, one 14 of them is not. They were older cars that the department 15 had for criminal investigations and for warrants. I'd like 16 to have both of those vehicles declared as surplus property, 17 and then we are taking the remainder of several seized 18 vehicles that we have, only one of which is worth any money, 19 and I have gone out and asked several of the car dealerships 20 around here for what kind of deals they would work up -- 21 work with us if we wanted to trade these vehicles in on at 22 least two, but possibly three used vehicles to replace one 23 in criminal investigations, being one of the Monacos, and 24 one in warrants, being the other Monaco. 25 There were some questions as to whether we 51 1 can legally trade seized vehicles under Chapter 59 of the 2 Code of Criminal Procedure. We since found an Attorney 3 General's opinion that says as long as we had an interlocal 4 agreement with the District Attorneys or the other agencies 5 involved in the seizure, that we could do that. I have -- 6 these are for my part. One's a copy and one's an original. 7 The interlocal agreement on the two -- from the two 8 different District Attorneys involving which vehicle 9 their -- the D.A.'s office was -- was part of on the 10 seizure. The A.G.'s opinion is listed in there showing that 11 we can legally do it. 12 What it amounts to, most of these seizures, 13 all but one, are probably worth maybe $50 to $100. It's -- 14 they sat out there -- if y'all have been out to the Law 15 Enforcement facility, they sit inside a fence back behind 16 the facility. They've sat out there for well over a year. 17 Nobody's ever just gotten rid of them. They could have been 18 gotten rid of a long time ago. And, just in the process, it 19 would probably be advantageous for us to pay someone to haul 20 them off. Half of them, they don't know where the keys are 21 and all the rest of that, but we have a seizure paper. The 22 one vehicle I want to trade that is worth something is a 23 1999 Firebird, but we can get a better deal by trading it 24 than we can by trying to sell it, I feel. And, in doing 25 this, we will end up receiving two 1999 Ford Tauruses with 52 1 less than -- well, right at about 16,000 miles on each of 2 them. They'll have about 20,000 miles still left on their 3 warranties, plus $500 back from the dealership that's doing 4 the trade with us, and at which point we can pay the 5 District Clerk her portion of the '99 Firebird, which they 6 get for filing the paperwork and handling the seizure. Once 7 that gets sold, we -- it's $261. And then the remainder of 8 the money hopefully will pay to install radios in those two 9 vehicles. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can get two Tauruses 11 for one Firebird? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and the rest of 13 these pieces of junk. But, yeah, there is -- it's a very 14 nice Firebird. It wasn't -- wasn't a -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No questions or 17 comments. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds good to me. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll move that we do 20 the deal, if we can. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 23 Griffin, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 24 declare two Dodge Monaco cars and all seized vehicles as 25 surplus property and authorize the Sheriff to trade those 53 1 for two Taurus vehicles. Any further questions or comments? 2 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 7 Sheriff. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next, we're going to call 11 Agenda Item Number 7, which is consider and discuss granting 12 a variance to the Kerr County Septic Rule 5.03(e) on Lot 5, 13 Riverbend Estates, Wharton Road. And simultaneously, 14 without objection, I'll call Agenda Item Number 8, which is 15 the exact same topic for Lot 4, Riverbend Estates, Wharton 16 Road. Commissioner Williams. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. 18 This is a carryover item from last Commissioners Court 19 meeting, and several things have happened in the interim. 20 I've had the opportunity to talk with the Blankenships on a 21 couple of occasions, and have learned from them some things 22 that were not in the record. I had the opportunity to 23 submit to the County Attorney's office for review the deed 24 restrictions and asked a couple questions pertinent to -- to 25 the covenants, which have been amended and have been 54 1 recorded as such. But, I think, before we get into the 2 discussion itself, it would be helpful if Mr. Wiedenfeld, 3 who represents the Designated Representative for Kerr County 4 in terms of O.S.S.F., if he would come forward one more time 5 and tell us the width and breadth and extent of U.G.R.A.'s 6 determination, what's happened on the site, and once again 7 reiterate if you are still of the same position, that you 8 believe T.N.R.C.C. rules have been met, and then we'll go 9 from there. 10 MR. WIEDENFELD: Okay. Don Blankenship and 11 his son, Rick Blankenship, own property along Wharton Road. 12 They have -- have initiated and requested a permit to 13 construct a septic system in the floodway of the Guadalupe 14 River, which is a designation separate from floodplain, and 15 Kerr County Septic Regulations prohibit septic systems to be 16 in the floodway. The State of Texas does have provisions in 17 their regulations for developing and placing a septic system 18 in flood-prone areas. There's a little conflict there, or 19 some differences. So, I had represented to the Blankenships 20 that I felt like if -- and this piece of property being as 21 far as it is from the river, and the soils being relatively 22 good in the area, that with an engineer, that they could 23 design a septic system that I could probably bring to you 24 Commissioners that I would recommend as one that would 25 protect the environment and all the concerns that T.N.R.C.C. 55 1 guidelines lay out. And so, at this time, again, I will 2 recommend that the system that we have designs for now, 3 after much wrangling, feel like they will project the 4 environment properly, and have issued -- considered all the 5 issues pertinent to that. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has there been any 7 further construction on those systems since the last time we 8 met? 9 MR. WIEDENFELD: Not to my knowledge. We've 10 put a cease and desist on that. When we were under the -- 11 we had the installer proceed with putting in a septic system 12 without getting a permit, and that installer's been before 13 the Judge, Justice of the Peace, and has been found guilty, 14 and we are proceeding with getting approval for this permit 15 tonight. And, again, the Blankenships, like I say, are here 16 to request y'all's variance to the Kerr County Septic 17 Regulations for the placement of a septic in the floodway. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. The issue 19 that we set before the County Attorney had to do with not 20 only the T.N.R.C.C. rules and regulations, but had to do 21 with -- with the -- the covenants -- Declaration of 22 Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions and so forth, and 23 those things have been amended and have been met. The 24 County Attorney tells me that the question we raised is now 25 moot. So, that being the case, I don't know whether to 56 1 qualify my position before making a motion or qualify the 2 motion afterwards, but I will move that the -- that the 3 Court grant the variance to the Kerr County Septic Rule 4 5.03(e), in light of the recommendation from the Designated 5 Representative that all the conditions for a septic in the 6 floodway have been met, in accordance with the T.N.R.C.C.'s 7 rules and regulations. That's my motion. If I get a 8 second, then I'll tell you what my thoughts are. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just to clarify your motion, 11 it relates to -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2.7. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- Don and Norma Blankenship, 14 the owners of Lot 5, Riverbend Estates, and Rick and Joyce 15 Blankenship, the owners of Lot 4, Riverbend Estates? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. Both 17 2.7 and 2.8, Judge. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: And your second -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll second both. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 22 grant a variance to Kerr County Septic Rule 5.03(e) for Don 23 and Norma Blankenship, owners of Lot 5, Riverbend Estates, 24 Wharton Road, and Rick and Joyce Blankenship, owners of Lot 25 4, Riverbend Estates, Wharton Road. 57 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One -- only one other 2 comment, Judge. I -- speaking personally, I am 3 philosophically opposed to this type of situation, but I 4 recognize T.N.R.C.C. promulgates rules and regulations that 5 permit this to happen. The County Attorney reminds me that 6 the longer those rules and regulations have been met -- and 7 you, as representative of U.G.R.A., are attesting to that 8 fact -- that any action that I might conceive or take to 9 seek to deny that would more than likely be considered as 10 arbitrary and capricious, and I don't wish to put the County 11 in that position of denying a variance and being arbitrary 12 and capricious about it. So, having said that, the motion 13 is in front of you. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 15 comments? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That brings up another 17 question. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess floodway clearly 20 makes -- let me make sure I understand. Floodways get 21 flooded fairly regularly, correct? 22 MR. WIEDENFELD: They're the area -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As opposed to floodplain? 24 MR. WIEDENFELD: They're the area dedicated 25 to discharge of the hundred-year flood event, which is -- 58 1 has vertical boundaries and has a -- has an elevation to it. 2 Now, there's areas outside that that get inundated during a 3 flood event, but they don't actually carry the flood waters. 4 And you can build in those backwater areas, and that's 5 what -- that is called the floodplain. The floodway, which, 6 you know, is the areas that discharge the hundred-year flood 7 event, are supposed to be dedicated to -- and left alone and 8 no construction of any kind is supposed to be in there 9 without having the proper engineering documents and 10 hydraulic study prepared that indicate if you are going to 11 build in that area, that it will not increase the height 12 and -- or impede the flow of the hundred-year flood by more 13 than 1 foot elevation. 14 And those studies were done by Vordenbaum 15 Engineering. Mr. Blankenship had gone through all that 16 process beginning last June already, and had gotten 17 floodplain permits and had his house constructed so that it 18 would withstand the flood force. That was another component 19 of getting a permit, that this structure then had to 20 withstand the flood forces of a hundred-year flood event. 21 And, he's had an engineer that prepared all that and 22 designed his house accordingly. And -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My concern is not as much 24 on the -- I mean, disrupting the flow in the river, as 25 opposed to the pollution of the river. I mean, a septic 59 1 system -- and, I guess, how do you design a -- a septic 2 system like this that -- I mean, the water gets up higher 3 than the septic system. You keep the flow -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You have to seal them, 5 I think. 6 MR. WIEDENFELD: Sealed, and the tanks can't 7 float away. And the other issue that -- that is not really 8 in the regulations, but I pretty much believe it ought to be 9 a subsurface disposal-type system. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does this have, like, a 11 drain field, or is this a -- 12 MR. WIEDENFELD: This is going to be a low 13 pressure dosing, the small diameter pipe that's in the drain 14 field there. And it's -- that's up in the better soils 15 which are up toward Wharton Road area. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The second part of it is, 17 based on what Bill's comment was, if our rules won't 18 withstand -- if our attorney said they won't stand up, why 19 do we have them? I mean, I don't see the point of us having 20 septic rules if we're -- they're not going to stand up in 21 court. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think what they 23 said, and what -- if I understood correctly -- the County 24 Attorney's here, so if I don't understand -- and, Angela, if 25 I don't represent what you wrote correctly, then correct 60 1 me -- was that if -- if it is made -- if we are made aware 2 that, by reason of U.G.R.A.'s recommendation, that the 3 T.N.R.C.C.'s very special rules for septic in this 4 particular type of situation are met, sealed tanks, can't 5 float, all that good stuff, and they've met those rules, 6 they've met those requirements, then we are hard-pressed to 7 deny it without being arbitrary and capricious. Let's let 8 the County Attorney -- am I correct, or is that wrong? 9 MS. COLLIER: Well, Commissioner Williams, I -- 10 the only opinion I gave was assuming that there were deed 11 restrictions in place that prohibited building a residential 12 structure on the property. And, in doing that analysis, I 13 first had to go through whether or not it would meet 14 T.N.R.C.C.'S guidelines, and then secondly, whether or not 15 it just meets the every -- every decision that you make 16 cannot be arbitrary and capricious, and it has to meet a 17 reasonableness test. And I didn't make an opinion as to 18 whether or not it would be arbitrary and capricious for you 19 to deny -- 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you did say, 21 however, was that the only additional legal burden placed on 22 the Court is to make a decision that is not arbitrary or 23 capricious and does not violate state or federal law, and 24 you give your citations. And then, further down in the 25 paragraph, you say if the variance which they are requesting 61 1 is in accordance with the above-mentioned T.N.R.C.C. 2 guidelines, the legality test has been met. I read that to 3 mean that the legality test had been met in this case. 4 MS. COLLIER: I was -- I can clarify that. 5 When I'm referring to the legality test, there are three 6 tests. One, it doesn't meet the T.N.R.C.C. guidelines. 7 Two, your decision can't be arbitrary or capricious. And 8 then, three, your decision cannot violate state or federal 9 law. And so, when I'm saying the legality question is met, 10 I'm talking about the third prong, which is your decision 11 can't violate state or federal law, and there isn't any 12 state or federal law that would prohibit you from granting 13 the variance if the T.N.R.C.C. guidelines are met. So, 14 it's -- and I just didn't make that clear enough. But there 15 are three parts. There are three different tests that you 16 need to look at. Does it meet T.N.R.C.C. guidelines? Does 17 it violate state or federal law? And then, lastly, your 18 decision can't be arbitrary or capricious. So, it's your -- 19 if have you a reasonable basis for your decision, that's up 20 to your discretion. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my view is, I'm 22 just going back to, I guess, the last -- I wasn't here on 23 the septic systems. I mean, it sounds like we need to 24 either go by T.N.R.C.C. or we don't. And, the rules we have 25 are not strictly T.N.R.C.C. rules; we made them a little bit 62 1 tougher, and we're in a situation now -- I'm not -- 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But we don't 3 specifically address floodway. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's the same issue. 5 I mean, they're saying grant a variance in T.N.R.C.C. rules, 6 and our rules -- that's a different topic, but anyway -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: The fact -- the fact is, as 8 it comes before the Court or our Designated Representative, 9 they have met all the technical requirements. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: The issue that deferred them 12 from us last time was the fact that the information 13 presented to us indicated that the deed restrictions 14 prevent -- prevented single-family residences in that area, 15 which could have created a problem. The applicants 16 presented evidence that shows that those single-family 17 restrictions were lifted and that, indeed, single-family 18 residences are permitted in that area. With that 19 information, we don't have a -- a guideline basis on which 20 to deny the variance, and any denial of the variance could 21 be considered arbitrary because it's not based on science or 22 other violation of an existing standard or statute. And so 23 we're presented with a situation tonight where we -- there 24 really is no subject -- or objective standard by which we 25 could deny the variance. 63 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, there's also -- 2 to me, there is a big reason for granting a variance, and 3 that's because our Designated Representative recommends it. 4 And that's our technical expertise. Whether it floats or 5 doesn't float or whatever, if our technical -- if our 6 Designated Representative, who is our technical conscience, 7 says, "I recommend you grant the variance," then I can -- I 8 tend to say I go along with that. If he didn't, I wouldn't. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. I 10 also agree with Mr. Williams' comment of, philosophically, I 11 am big-time dead against these kinds of things. I mean, the 12 floodway -- I mean, I'm not sure that there's not some 13 federal law that addresses this. But, because of the 14 recommendation of U.G.R.A. and our legal counsel, I don't 15 see that there is much -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one other 17 question, Charlie. Is there anything in Section 10 of the 18 O.S.S.F. rules, which are our particular rules, that 19 mitigate against this? 20 MR. WIEDENFELD: No. We're -- with the new 21 rules, we're -- we're in tune with T.N.R.C.C.'s requirements 22 on flood-prone area development. And we really haven't gone 23 over and beyond the State requirements on anything when it 24 encroaches on any of our streams in that regard. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Before we vote, I want to say 64 1 that I am appalled that any licensed septic installer in 2 this county or any other county would not only counsel a 3 landowner to install a septic system without a permit, but 4 design and install the septic system without first obtaining 5 a permit. If there are such individuals in this county, 6 they don't deserve to be operating in this County. I'm 7 quite sure that neither the Blankenships nor any responsible 8 landowner in Kerr County would go to a septic system 9 installer and say, "I don't care about the rules, I just 10 want you to put in a septic system." I'm quite certain that 11 didn't happen here, and I'm gratified to hear that the 12 installer in question -- I don't know who it is -- paid some 13 penalty to the judicial process for that, and I hope we'll 14 see swift and sure justice on anybody who does that in the 15 future. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Having said that, all in 18 favor of the motion to grant the variance, raise your right 19 hand. 20 (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Griffin indicated by raised hand that they were in 21 favor of the motion.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed? 23 (Commissioner Letz indicated by raised hand that he was opposed to the motion.) 24 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. At this 65 1 time, let's take a 10-minute break and reconvene at. 2 8 o'clock sharp. Thank you. 3 (Recess taken from 7:50 p.m. to 8:00 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. It's 8 o'clock 6 and we will resume this regular Special Session of the Kerr 7 County Commissioners Court. Commissioner Baldwin, you had 8 some introductions to make. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I -- 10 Thomas, get in here. They're young high school students; 11 y'all give them a little bit of a break here. But they're 12 outstanding high school students. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, they're across the 14 hall. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, that's mine. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, no. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll go ahead and then 19 return when we get to the introductions. We'll call Item 20 Number 9, which is to amend Court Order Number 26480, 21 Approval of Polling Location for Precinct 303. County 22 Clerk, Jannett Pieper. 23 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, after numerous calls 24 to me and Commissioner Letz, we thought it best to open up 25 Precinct 303 at its regular location, and that way we will 66 1 not combine 303 and 308 together. 303 will be at the 2 Cypress Creek Community Center, and 308 will remain at the 3 Calvary Temple on Highway 27 East. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's a good 5 idea, after the phone calls I've had. That's a great idea. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 7 we approve the revised polling -- polling locations. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 10 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we amend Court Order 11 Number 26480 to establish the polling place for Precinct 303 12 as Cypress Creek Community Center, and the polling place for 13 Precinct 308 at Calvary Temple on Highway 27 East. Any 14 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 15 your right hand. 16 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go to the other Jannett 20 one first, Buster. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Number 10, which 23 is amend Court Order Number 26479, Appointment and/or 24 Replacement of County Election Judges and Alternate Judges. 25 MS. PIEPER: For Precinct 303, since we are 67 1 going to open it back up, I would like to recommend that 2 Lydia Albrecht be the judge, and Margaret Morries be the 3 alternate judge. In Precinct 308, Mary Manitzas will be the 4 judge and Richard Gore will be the alternate. In Precinct 5 211, we need to replace Raul Arreola with Anna Payne. And 6 then in Precinct 312, we need to replace Bill Ament with 7 George Curtis. They have some conflicting schedules on that 8 date for the election. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 12 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 13 amend Court Order Number 26479 to appoint Lydia Albrecht as 14 the county election judge in Precinct 303, with Margaret 15 Morries as the alternate; to appoint Mary Manitzas -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Manitzas. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- as the election judge in 18 Precinct 308, with Richard Gore as the alternate; to appoint 19 Anna Payne as the alternate in Precinct 211; and to appoint 20 George Curtis as the precinct chair -- as the election judge 21 in voting Precinct 312. Any further questions or comments? 22 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 23 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 25 (No response.) 68 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay, 2 Commissioner. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 4 I'd like to introduce a couple of gentlemen to you, if you 5 fellows would please stand up. On our right as we look back 6 to them, that's Thomas Wallace, and Forrest Short on the 7 left. They are from Scout Troop Number 1, I might add, 8 right here in Kerrville, Texas, and they're in here 9 observing their government and to get their Citizenship 10 Badge, and we always like to recognize our scout kids that 11 come in and -- and take a part in our local government. 12 Thank you, guys, and congratulations. 13 (Applause.) 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And my constituents. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Future voters. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 11, 17 which is to consider and discuss authorization to advertise 18 for RFP's for upgrade in computer system. Tommy Tomlinson. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I started out trying to -- 20 trying to do this as a sole-source purchase. I've had some 21 conversations with the County Attorney's office, and -- 22 relative to that situation, and he's had numerous 23 conversations with different people at the A.G.'s office, 24 and -- and has -- has come up with -- with two different 25 opinions there, so it's -- it must be a gray area. So 69 1 I've -- I decided that rather than -- than take a rest, to 2 go ahead and -- and solicit RFP's for the replacement of 3 our -- our mainframe hardware and the transfer of the 4 operating system and operating software from -- from the old 5 mainframe platform to the new. And, the reason I'm trying 6 to do this now is that there -- there is some lead time 7 in -- in trying to -- to obtain this hardware, probably 30 8 to 60 days. So, I would like to see it be ready at least by 9 October 1st to -- to have -- to be ready to take this on if 10 we, in fact, can obtain it by then. And -- 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: This -- this is -- it's an 13 IBM platform design, and by -- by one source, which is IBM. 14 It operates off of -- off of IBM's -- it's a sole-source 15 software and operating system, so the -- I think the market 16 for acquiring this piece of equipment is very limited. 17 So -- I mean, so I'm not anticipating too much response from 18 our RFP. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: What time frame do you intend 20 to put on the RFP, as far as response? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I'd like -- I'd like to 22 be able to -- to award this by the second meeting in 23 September. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which would be the 25th. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 70 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll move that we 3 authorize the Auditor to advertise for the RFP for the 4 computer system. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 8 authorize the County Auditor to advertise for RFP's for the 9 upgrade to the existing Kerr County computer and mainframe 10 system, such RFP's to be submitted not later than 11 September 25th. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 14 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 12 is 19 consider having the County Attorney write letters of about 20 fence encroachment on Scenic Valley and enforcement of 21 Subdivision Rules and Regulations on Spicer Ranch. Franklin 22 Johnston. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: These are two separate items; 24 they're just combined on the agenda item. Scenic Valley, 25 there's a temporary fence immediately within 12 inches of 71 1 the pavement on the road. Photos are all the same; they're 2 just multiple copies. Just take one and pass it. We wrote 3 a letter to the landowner to request that he move it back to 4 the property line, which we got no response from. So, 5 according to the Subdivision Rules, the next place is to 6 direct -- have the Court direct the County Attorney to take 7 appropriate action. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: What about Spicer Ranch? 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Spicer Ranch is part two. It 10 came to my attention from Charlie Wiedenfeld at U.G.R.A. 11 There's a lot in Spicer Ranch, Lot 6, that apparently has, I 12 think, four owners -- four people sharing that lot, and it 13 appears to be mobile homes. I didn't know if that would 14 come under the mobile home rental item or not. At least 15 they're not subdivided. We have no record of a subdivision 16 of that lot. So, there again, it would be directed to the 17 County Attorney for appropriate action. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you not try to -- 19 attempt to contact these people? 20 MR. JOHNSTON: I think Charlie tried to. I 21 did not. I think Charlie Wiedenfeld -- did you write them a 22 letter or just go by and talk to them, or -- 23 MR. WIEDENFELD: No. I waited to hear from 24 here. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: I think -- did they come in 72 1 and request services? 2 MR. WIEDENFELD: No, it was a complaint 3 that -- a complaint. 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Because they don't have 5 permits for all their -- 6 MR. WIEDENFELD: No, no permits. 7 MR. JOHNSTON: There's several things 8 involved here. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we 10 authorize the County Attorney to write the letters 11 addressing these two issues. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 14 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Commissioners 15 Court direct the County Attorney to write letters regarding 16 encroachments on Scenic Valley and violations of Subdivision 17 Rules and Regulations in Spicer Ranch. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Griffin had 19 the second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Oh, Commissioner Griffin did? 21 Okay, I stand corrected. Any further questions? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a question. This is 23 a -- you might -- is Scenic Valley -- is that a road by 24 prescription, or do we have a deeded right-of-way, or do you 25 know? 73 1 MR. JOHNSTON: I think we have a 50-foot 2 right-of-way. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Makes it easier to 4 enforce it. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 8 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next is 13 Number 13, consider and discuss approving road name changes 14 for privately maintained roads in various locations. 15 Commissioner Griffin. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Actually, there are 17 some for Commissioner Williams on here too, but this is the 18 latest list that we have in the package that you see there. 19 These are all private roads, do not require public hearings. 20 These are the requests and the databasing up front that you 21 see there; that's maintained by Road and Bridge. And I 22 would move that we approve the name -- or name changes as 23 shown on the front two sheets. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I second it. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 74 1 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 2 approve the name changes for the privately maintained roads 3 in various locations, as outlined on the first two pages of 4 the agenda item. Any further questions or comments? If 5 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The second part of the 10 agenda item, Judge, was to talk about the process for 11 notifying the owners of property along those roads -- or 12 along any roads when they are named or renamed. The 13 guidelines -- and you'll see that in the package there in 14 the highlighted portion. It says that the agency that does 15 the naming, which in this case is the Court, is responsible 16 for that notification. The reason I put it on the agenda 17 was to get the matter up before the Court, because we need 18 to come up with a process for doing that. I would be glad 19 to take it as an action item to go get with 911, Road and 20 Bridge, KCAD, whoever it makes the best sense that -- to do 21 this notification. You remember that the way this now works 22 is the request starts -- for any naming starts at 911, goes 23 to Road and Bridge, where it gets databased, then comes to 24 the Court as an agenda item, just like these that we did 25 just a moment ago. We approve it, it goes back to Road and 75 1 Bridge for inclusion in the database. A copy of the Court 2 Order goes back to there. 3 Now, the question is, how do we get that word 4 out to the owners of the property that abut on these roads? 5 So, it appears to me that one good -- and I haven't talked 6 to KCAD about it, but KCAD needs to have that loop closed, 7 as well, so that their database, 911's database, and our 8 database all agree. So, it could be that maybe there's a 9 way we could negotiate, some way that KCAD might be the best 10 agency for notifying them and that sort of tells us that 11 everybody's database is in agreement. But, I'll be glad to 12 take that up -- I'm not proposing that now, 'cause I haven't 13 talked to KCAD. I'll be glad to take that on as an action 14 item to go to the Court -- come back to the Court. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean if they would 16 be the local public authority? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, they would just 18 be -- we're responsible for it, but you -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We are the local 20 public authority. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We are the public 22 authority that has the responsibility for naming the roads. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wouldn't it be easier 24 just to say that 911 is the local public authority? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, because it's by 76 1 law. I mean, you know -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We are the local -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- Chapter 251 of the 4 Transportation Code says that only County -- only 5 Commissioners Court can name roads. We -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they're talking 7 about the notification of the change. I mean, we're not -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I mean -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have to pay for it. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Somebody's got to pay 13 the postage, but it's got to -- that's one the things we 14 need to talk about, and all that sort of thing. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I, myself, would be happy for 16 Commissioner Griffin to work on that and bring it back to 17 us. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That makes two of us. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We need some way that 21 it makes sense and it's the most efficient, and make sure 22 that everybody's data agrees. 'Cause, gosh, we end up in 23 a -- the phone company has to have that same information in 24 their database. We haven't even talked about that one, but 25 the phone company's got to have it, KPUB's got to have it. 77 1 There's all kinds of different people that need to end up 2 with that information, and it all needs to agree. Right now 3 they don't all agree. You know, and this was before we ever 4 started naming the roads the first day. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is, I guess, 6 related to changes. I just have a question on naming. With 7 duplicate road names -- and I know there's the geo-regions 8 that we have, but -- and you -- so we can -- and we did that 9 largely so we could have duplicate names -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Geo-regions, yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't it still -- our 12 intent was not to do that? It was, you know, not -- not 13 supposed to do that. We don't want six Lane Valleys and six 14 Main Streets and six anything else. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if it happens to 17 exist, leave it exist, but don't create any more? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That was -- yeah, 19 you've got it correct. That was the going-in position; we 20 would not create -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any more. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- duplicate names. 23 We would not -- except if they already existed in different 24 geo-regions, we'd give them a suffix and leave them alone. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I thought. I 78 1 just wanted to make sure. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's where we are. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else on this item? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So I'll take that -- 5 I'll go work that and come back to the Court. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: While you're over 7 there, Commissioner Griffin, I have been trying to track 8 this -- this process of 911 coming over to Road and Bridge, 9 et cetera, et cetera, and coming to us, and I've been kind 10 of watching it and working with the Road and Bridge 11 Department. And, I have come across several mistakes that 12 are from -- coming from 911 that are actual mistakes, that 13 it's causing us, you know, to -- to go through part of the 14 process and then having to start completely over to come 15 back in. I still like the process. I would just request 16 that -- would you ask them to please double-check everything 17 before they -- it leaves their facility? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I know we've 19 had -- particularly, we had some problems with some requests 20 that were done about last October-November, and we had to 21 reaccomplish those. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because those sort of 24 got held up when we were waiting for -- for other 25 jurisdictions to sign off on the guidelines. We held some, 79 1 911 held some, but I think we've found all of those now, and 2 I think they've got them pretty well worked out. So, we're 3 down to the process now of -- of naming private roads that 4 don't have names, and we'll let the citizens make that 5 request. In fact, I think nearly all of these tonight came 6 from citizen requests, saying, Hey, can we name our road 7 such-and-such? If 911 says, Yeah, that's okay, it's not a 8 duplicate and so forth, it goes to Road and Bridge, gets 9 databased, comes over here, we approve it. But, I'll work 10 on trying to see how to best close that loop. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item for consideration 12 is Item Number 14, consider and discuss establishing No-Wake 13 Zones to reduce and regulate speed of power boats operating 14 on Flat Rock Lake, Ingram Lake, and Center Point Lake. 15 Commissioner Williams. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, this is a 17 bring-back item from not only last Court, but the Court 18 meeting before, two previous Court meetings. When last we 19 discussed this two weeks ago, a question was raised, I 20 think, by Commissioner Baldwin, whether or not the Sheriff's 21 Department had the ability and the willingness to enforce, 22 and -- and a little bit about the training and how we would 23 do that. Subsequently, I spoke with Sheriff Hierholzer, and 24 he was going to look into it, tell us about the training, 25 and I think he's come back and given notice that he has one 80 1 deputy who already has water training or something. 2 Sheriff, will you tell us about that? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is an 8-hour course 4 on marine safety that all officers who enforce that have to 5 be certified in. I have no problem getting with Parks and 6 Wildlife here to see if we can get our officers certified. 7 I think it's a good certification, whether we actually are 8 the ones to enforce this, or whether Parks and Wildlife 9 would have to take the lead in enforcing it. I would 10 anticipate for a while, at least, Parks and Wildlife is 11 going to have to take the lead, unless y'all are going to 12 buy us a boat or jet skis or something. Otherwise, we're 13 going to be out there in innertubes and canoes trying to 14 enforce it. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You told me you had a 16 boat. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seized one. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you seize a boat? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I seize a boat, it's 21 going to get traded for a car. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sooner or later, 23 those folks have to come in and land someplace. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and that's where 25 we could do it, but we'd still have to have our officers 81 1 certified in doing that. But -- we wouldn't be out, but if 2 it is a -- a case where we have to get an officer out there 3 on the water with them and everything -- I know these are 4 small lakes we're talking about, but it's still going to 5 require Parks and Wildlife or one of them to take the lead 6 on that, because they're the only ones with the facilities 7 to be able to do that. If we've got somebody patrolling 8 around that area and they see a violation out there, and 9 we're on the bank and we're certified to enforce that 10 violation, sure, I think our deputies wouldn't mind at all 11 enforcing that. If it's the law, we're going to enforce it 12 as long as we can. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, who offers 14 the training and how often is it offered? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'm going to have 16 to get with Parks and Wildlife. A lot of those where 17 there's just one-hour courses, if any of the game wardens 18 here are certified instructors, we could possibly work a 19 deal with them to have them put on a course right here to 20 where we can get our officers through it, but it's going to 21 be a deal where we have to get them through -- we have to do 22 several courses to be able to get all the deputies certified 23 in that. I don't have the manpower or time constraints to 24 pull everybody in one day and put them all through a course. 25 We just we can't do that. You have to keep someone on the 82 1 street. So, as far as the cost of the course, I don't know 2 yet. As far as when we could actually get one set up or 3 folks to run it, we just have to see. I met with Bill 4 Fulkes with AACOG training today. I don't believe that they 5 offer the course anywhere that I know of, so it's going to 6 come out of Parks and Wildlife. This is really their 7 bailiwick in doing all this stuff. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: You might check with L.C.R.A. 9 and see if they have any program where they can either train 10 either their own park rangers or local law enforcement. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can do that. 12 Normally, Parks and Wildlife and us work great together. I 13 won't have a problem getting one set up. It's just not a 14 deal we can do overnight to get everybody trained. It's 15 going to take several -- several times of doing it and 16 scheduling officers through it. That's all there is. We 17 did have one officer that was certified, but he since went 18 to work for Kerrville Police Department since his -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's one other 20 issue that we need to address in this process of -- of 21 setting this up, too, and that is signage on those lakes 22 indicating no-wake zones. And that -- and we probably -- we 23 need to get good signs up so that we let people know that 24 they are no-wake zones. And that's not an issue for you to 25 worry -- 83 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm just saying that's 3 something we need to work with Road and Bridge or someone. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would recommend 5 getting with Parks and Wildlife, getting their supervisor 6 over here, because a lot of that signage stuff -- it has to 7 be just like your road signs; you're talking about having to 8 be so -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Standard. 10 THE WITNESS: Yeah, inch lettering and all 11 that, to be effective and be enforceable, to make sure that 12 when we do put them up, that they are enforceable. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it will be -- 14 we'll have to go to some of the landowners, probably, to put 15 some of those signs up. I'm sure most of them who are 16 losing banks all the time through erosion caused by the 17 wakes, who are losing their property into the lakes will 18 probably be glad to let us put signs -- some of those 19 enforcement signs on their private property, if that's 20 required. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would imagine they 22 would be. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it would be. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, bottom line is, 25 you have no problem with moving forward with this? 84 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If the County adopts it, 2 it becomes a law, we're going to enforce all the laws that 3 we can possibly enforce to the best of our ability. That's 4 the bottom line. It's not really a choice of whether I 5 would have a problem or not have a problem. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's just enforcing it, 8 and we'll do that. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate that. 10 Thank you. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Sheriff. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are your plans to take 13 action now, or to write an order to bring back with the -- 14 citing the actual legal authority and setting a public 15 hearing? Which I don't know if you need a public hearing on 16 this or not, but I presume you would. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's ask the County 18 Attorney -- I think that was a question we should have asked 19 about it. Do we need a public hearing, County Attorney? 20 MR. LUCAS: I wrote an opinion to Judge 21 Henneke last week. You had asked me, Judge Henneke, what 22 kind of procedural process we needed in order to do this, 23 and I could not find any kind of statutory or case law that 24 spelled out any kind of provision like that. I would think 25 it would be in our best interests to have a public hearing, 85 1 just to be safe. But that would be it. Any other 2 questions? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we need to draft a 4 formal order? 5 MR. LUCAS: Yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Citing the legal 7 authority and -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: What we would do is -- what 9 we typically do is approve the order, set the public 10 hearing, and after the public hearing we would adopt the 11 order, but we would need to have the actual order so that it 12 can be on file at the County Clerk's office prior to the 13 public hearing. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we -- I'm asking 15 now, just to see if we can move it along. Can we instruct 16 the County Attorney to draft that order and, at the same 17 time, set the public hearing date? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to have the order 19 ready before we can do the public -- I mean, it's got to be 20 available for whatever time, 15 days or whatever. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, there's no -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could do it and set a 23 time -- enough lead time to give the County Attorney time 24 to -- 25 MR. LUCAS: It can be done. 86 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We need to approve the order, 2 which we don't have today to approve. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can we get it by 4 Wednesday? Add it as an emergency to our Wednesday -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's too late for Wednesday. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can move tonight 7 to instruct the County Attorney to draft an order for a 8 no-wake zone on Kerr County's three lakes, citing the proper 9 statutory authority to do that, right? And all you're 10 saying, if I'm saying it correctly, is that we cannot, at 11 the same time, set the public hearing date. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We could set the public 13 hearing, but we can't -- the public hearing would need to be 14 at a time after our next opportunity to actually approve the 15 proposed order. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, a month from now 17 we could set a public hearing? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: We could set the public 19 hearing for September 25th, and at the next meeting on the 20 11th, instruct the County Attorney to have the proposed 21 order for our approval. And then we could adopt it after 22 the public order on the 25th. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. I 24 so move. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- question. Is 87 1 there a -- there has been a 30-day and a two-week, or does 2 it make -- I mean -- 3 MR. LUCAS: Again, there's nothing that 4 spells it out. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, two weeks could be 6 sufficient, so if we have to actually adopt it on the -- 7 whatever that next meeting, first meeting in September, then 8 the second meeting in September, we could -- that would be 9 enough time? 10 MR. LUCAS: I would think so. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the 14 Commissioners Court set a public hearing on -- on the 15 no-wake zone order for the lakes owned by Kerr County in 16 Kerr County, and instruct the County Attorney to have for 17 approval on September 11th the draft of such order. Any 18 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, if I may, based 25 on good research done by Thea and Maggie, it just may be of 88 1 interest to the Court that since 1984 -- since the 9th day 2 of July of 1984, the -- all of the channel and all of the 3 Ingram Lake has been a no-wake zone. And that just shows 4 you how sometimes we fall through the cracks. There was an 5 order -- there was a court order, and it just never was 6 followed up on for enforcement. But, go out there Saturday 7 afternoon and you'll see that Ingram Lake is anything other 8 than a no-wake zone. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's for sure. All right. 10 Moving along, next item is Number 15, consider and discuss 11 approving the Park Rules and Regulations and set a public 12 hearing for the same. Commissioner Letz. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You have in your packet 14 the -- the newest version of the Park Rules, and I also have 15 a few comments from the County Attorney relating to these. 16 Basically, we have the authority to do what we wrote, which 17 is always nice to know. Now you can at least go in the 18 right direction. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good first 20 step. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First comment was in 22 Section 4, which is the Safety section. And the -- I may 23 ask Travis to get up in a minute and say more if there's any 24 questions -- answer any questions, but basically, we're very 25 broad and vague, and I think it's unenforceable the way it's 89 1 written. As I understand, the alternative is to try to list 2 every unsafe activity we can think of, which is probably 3 just as difficult. I think this is language that may be an 4 effort to deter -- it may be enough for a deputy, if they 5 see something that looks bad, to go say, "Don't do it," but 6 that's all he could do; he could not enforce this provision 7 as written. So, our options are to leave it the way it is, 8 or try to list all the things that we think are unsafe, and 9 then the deputies will have something that they can -- if 10 they see someone climbing a tree, there's something -- I 11 mean, you know, they can be more specific. And, you know, 12 to me, it's probably my preference to probably just leave it 13 the way it is right now and just hope, you know, these 14 people have some common sense, and if someone tells them not 15 to do it, they won't do it again. But -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I would differ 17 with that. I hate for our guys to be out there trying to 18 tell the people they can't do -- or shouldn't be doing 19 something if we have no means or way of enforcing what we're 20 saying. I think that's bad policy. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the other side of 22 the story. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As long as we're on 24 Section 4, the first of my notes, Commissioner, I'd like for 25 the Court to consider adding dams into Section 4. When 90 1 we're talking about acting in any dangerous, unsafe manner 2 in any park or recreation area, I'd like to suggest we add 3 "park, dam, or recreation area." 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It appears in Section 6 4(1). The same language for amendment would be again in 7 Section 7, and again in 6(8). By adding "dam," that takes 8 care of it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. But, back on 10 Section 4, do we want to try to list activities which -- 11 there's a good reason for it. I mean, I can see it puts the 12 Sheriff in a difficult position, and then what activities -- 13 we got into this whole thing of taking out activities when 14 you got the dam sitting and sliding; that's what got the 15 whole thing started to start with. We tried to get rid 16 of -- we wanted to let people sit on the dam if they wanted 17 to, especially Ingram Dam. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wear out their 19 bathing suits if they want to. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My opinion on that is, 21 you know, we have -- the State has some pretty good Penal 22 Code laws that are covered under a lot of sections, and I 23 would hate to see us trying to create other ones besides 24 those. We have disorderly conduct statutes which cover a 25 lot of specific things. We have the public intoxication 91 1 statutes and that. Now, dam sliding and things like that, 2 you know, I'm not too eager to have our guys go out there 3 enforcing that anyhow. If they want to wear out their 4 swimsuits, let them wear out their swimsuits. I -- you 5 know, I think the Penal Code laws that we have, I think 6 they're going to cover anything that, really, I would deem 7 as needing to be enforced. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the 9 recommendation -- Section 4, then, would reference, by 10 reference, those particular Penal Code sections? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, just -- no, delete 12 Section 4. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just delete Section 4. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're saying just 15 delete it? 16 MR. LUCAS: My recommendation is exactly what 17 Rusty talked about. If you're going to have any kind of 18 language like that, you need to be real specific and spell 19 out every single piece of conduct that can come up, and 20 that's just probably too much. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all for that. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Deleting it? You didn't 24 like the dam sliding. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't like any of 92 1 that, anyway. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other comment was on 3 Section 6, just a comment. We got into speed limits, under 4 B, and that will require a transportation hearing as well as 5 a regular public hearing. It's -- we need to remember to do 6 both at one time, or both -- I guess one after the other. 7 And then Travis' final comments were on Section 10, under 8 Penalty. It says, "deemed to be a misdemeanor," and he says 9 that is not good language. We need to -- to say, "A 10 violation of any provisions of Sections 3 through 7 herein 11 shall be fully prosecuted pursuant to the Texas Penal Code 12 and other applicable codes," and that gives us a legal 13 standing. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one question, 15 though. I'm going to go back to Section 4, Safety. If we 16 take it out, as has been suggested, how do we -- how do we 17 define where it is unlawful for these things to occur? 18 There was some preliminary language here that -- to set up 19 where we're talking about. If we take this out, then we're 20 not defining where we're talking about. And I'd like to 21 have that definition. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's unlawful. The 23 activity's unlawful where it occurs, regardless of whether 24 it's a dam, a park, or the water or roadway or wherever. 25 So -- 93 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's -- yeah. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Enforcing the law is not 3 specific to any area. 4 MR. LUCAS: Exactly. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, in the sense these are 6 Park Rules, any violation of any law within a park subjects 7 that individual or individuals to apprehension and 8 prosecution. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If they are disorderly 10 or intoxicated, whatever the case may be, that could be 11 anywhere. 12 MR. LUCAS: That actually goes to Section 10, 13 the commentary that I provide there, Commissioner Williams. 14 You know, and I think that Rusty had a good opinion on that. 15 I mean, if they're going to -- if we're going to have to 16 have any kind of criminal activities, whether it's on a dam 17 or anywhere on County-owned property, much less a park, 18 we're going to be able to haul them in through the criminal 19 statutes, or something like the Texas Parks and Wildlife 20 Code violations if we have, you know, people out there with 21 hazardous wakes and that type of thing. You know, that's a 22 Class C misdemeanor; sometimes a B and an A, even, under 23 that particular code. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. You're 25 convincing -- you're convincing me that's it's covered. 94 1 That's all I want to know. 2 MR. LUCAS: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I don't 5 know if anybody covered, if you close those parks at certain 6 hours of the day, then we go into the trespass ordinance at 7 that time. 8 MR. LUCAS: Exactly. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If anybody violates that 10 closure, as long as they're closed, that is trespass. 11 MR. LUCAS: That's right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One more run at it 13 here, just to be sure. Just to be sure. Instead of just 14 calling this parks and recreation area, can we put "dams" in 15 that title, so that we know it's covered? "Parks, Dams, and 16 Recreation Areas"? 17 MR. LUCAS: There's something -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That then I can agree 19 it's covered? 20 MR. LUCAS: Let me ask you this. Are you 21 asking if we can place in the definition of "recreation 22 area," dams? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. I'm asking that 24 the title of this whole thing be "Kerr County Rules and 25 Regulations for Parks, Dams, and Recreation Areas." Then 95 1 it's covered. 2 MR. LUCAS: Yeah. Oh, yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 'Cause the County owns 4 the dams. 5 MR. LUCAS: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the title. 7 MR. LUCAS: Oh, dams. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought dams were 10 the recreation areas. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dams are part of the 12 park. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Recreation area. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, they are in Flat 15 Rock and Center Point, but Lake Ingram is not a park. I 16 don't think we have -- we just don't -- we own the dam 17 and -- 18 MR. LUCAS: The only thing about that, you 19 know, when you talk about dams and parks, I think of them as 20 a lawyer. From what I've been reading, all this stuff, it's 21 two totally different things. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the reason I'm 23 making the point I'm making. 24 MR. LUCAS: Yeah. And I -- I don't think you 25 can do it. 96 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You don't think we 2 can? 3 MR. LUCAS: No. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why? 5 MR. LUCAS: Well, I don't know. I mean, it 6 depends on if a dam is a park. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if we set the 8 title up as "Rules and Regulations for Parks," plural -- 9 MR. LUCAS: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- "Recreation Areas 11 and Dams," would dams and recreation areas -- we have 12 defined three separate entities by which -- for which these 13 rules apply. 14 MR. LUCAS: Yeah. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you saying we 16 can't do that? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about if we -- where 18 we define the area of a park, to include the dam there? I 19 think Travis' problem here is because it's a certain statute 20 that we're getting all the -- 21 MR. LUCAS: Authorization, exactly. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's for Parks and 23 Recreation. 24 MR. LUCAS: Page 1. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if we deem the dams 97 1 to be part of the parks geographically, that would cover it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. I buy 3 that. 4 MR. LUCAS: Then I begin to think of 5 potential lawsuits, you know, of -- and we talked about this 6 last time, and maybe I should reserve commentary for 7 Executive Session. But I don't know if its was you, 8 Commissioner Baldwin, that brought it up last time, or if it 9 was Judge Henneke, but we talked about this -- he's pointing 10 at Judge Henneke. We were talking about the liability of 11 our dams and that type of thing, and I am working on these 12 issues of researching, you know, what kind of feeling are we 13 going to have if we call the dam a recreation area, but then 14 prohibit people, if we want to -- if we want to in the 15 future, of, you know, doing something on those dams. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Recreating. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can recreate on 18 the ground; they don't have to do it on the dam. 19 MR. LUCAS: Okay. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're deteriorating, 21 gentlemen. I know the hour is late. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was good, though. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Letz, are you 24 comfortable in approving the rules as amended for purposes 25 of setting the hearings, or are you -- 98 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think probably bring 2 them back and get them exactly right, 'cause I'm a little 3 concerned about where we would do the dams. I'm looking 4 at -- and I'm reading this now, but I'm really thinking of a 5 step we need to do, which is to formally, geographically 6 designate where these parks will be. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that may be something 8 you need to look at. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's easy to do at 10 Flat Rock; we have those recent deeds which we've done a lot 11 of work there. But, for Lion's Camp and Ingram, we're going 12 to need to, I think, clearly define what the parks are so we 13 know where we're going to enforce these rules. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a good 15 idea. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Siemers, you had a 17 comment? 18 MR. SIEMERS: Section 5, Sentence 3, I don't 19 understand that sentence. If you'd -- I think there's 20 something wrong. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Section 5? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, "of" should be 23 "or," for one thing. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that bears some 25 scrutiny. 99 1 MR. SIEMERS: Yeah. What's the equipment 2 going to do? 3 MRS. SIEMERS: It appears to ban any equipment 4 between the specified hours. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the time that the 6 parks are closed anyway, so that's just the -- 7 MR. SIEMERS: What does it mean, is the 8 question. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Allow the use of any 10 equipment, I would think. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. A word was left 12 out. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, use of. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or other activity, 15 probably. Okay. Wait till we get to the Subdivision Rules. 16 This is only four pages. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Can't wait. All right. 18 Speaking of which -- thank you, Travis. Next item is Item 19 Number 16, consider and discuss approving Subdivision Rules 20 and Regulations. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: After that one, I don't 22 know if I want to continue. But, we have a -- a new version 23 finally, which I have made final changes to today. There 24 are -- hand one to Maggie, as well. I think what I'd like 25 to do is, you know, hand them out -- also, Road and Bridge 100 1 has a copy. I've already -- I'm already receiving changes 2 to this already; it's only been out for a day. You know, 3 more modifications. But I think, you know -- I mean, the 4 best way to proceed would be to get these out to the press, 5 you know, County Court, anyone that wants a copy of it, look 6 at it and get some comments. When I say anyone, primarily 7 right now I'm thinking more of Headwaters, U.G.R.A., 911, 8 all of the people that really work with it. Let them go 9 through it again and come back with any modifications, and 10 we can come up -- try to come up with, at our next meeting, 11 all comments put back in, and I can put together another 12 draft. 13 It's gotten to a -- it's such a long 14 document, and there's so many -- I guess, over time, it has 15 been developed that it's on my computer, where the master 16 used to be at Road and Bridge, which was a lot quicker. 17 But, anyway, it's on my computer now. So, rather than try 18 to go back and forth and have copies switched and changed, 19 it's easier to keep it on one computer and then print it and 20 get it back out to Road and Bridge. There are a number 21 of -- one thing I have not spent any time on, and I'm going 22 to rely heavily on Truby to do this, hopefully, is to go 23 back in and renumber everything. Basically, reformat the 24 whole document. I haven't looked at that at all. In fact, 25 I deleted all the page numbers so people wouldn't think that 101 1 it was formatted, 'cause it's not. Well, there are page 2 numbers on the bottom, but there's not any page numbers on 3 the index. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The parts that really 6 need the -- I think, the closest scrutiny are going to be 7 Section 1 -- and these are the sections we've done a 8 tremendous amount of changes to. Section 1, which is 9 General Provisions and Purposes, the Definitions section, 10 which is Section 2, and then Section 5, Subdivision 11 Standards. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Beginning what page, 13 Jonathan, Section 5? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What page is Number 16 5? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Page 13. And in 18 Section 5, Subdivision Standards, is where we get into water 19 availability requirements, things of that nature, and also 20 there's a broadened part under waste disposal systems, and I 21 added a -- actually, that's one thing I want to point out, 22 so people don't miss it. On Page 16 -- this is under Public 23 Water Systems -- I added a Number 4 on that page, which is 24 basically saying that all public water systems will have a 25 hydrant hooked up for fire trucks to drive up to, and -- 102 1 that's the intent, anyway. It may not say that, but 2 basically a dry hydrant attached to those systems where the 3 tanks are so we can get water from it. And I copped out and 4 said, well, exactly how to do that will be in Appendix M. I 5 think I'll probably have that actual diagram as to what 6 needs to be there with the specifications, but that's 7 something we've had a request from fire departments and a 8 lot of people in the public, and added that in recently. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that, Jon. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do too. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, the road 12 portions, platting procedures, Section 5 and Section -- or 6 13 and 7, very few changes, really. We did spend more time on 14 those last revision around, so most of the work was on the 15 earlier part of the document. And, I'll be anxiously 16 awaiting comments. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Our next meeting is 18 September 11th. Do you want to suggest a deadline for 19 having comments? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: What would you like that to 22 be? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Certainly -- let's see. 24 I'd say by the 7th or 8th. What's next Friday? Or the 25 Friday before, I mean. 103 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Friday before that 2 would be -- 3 MS. SOVIL: 7th. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 8th. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd suggest we back that up 6 at least one day so that copies can be made and distributed 7 to Commissioners in their books so they can have them over 8 the weekend. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Close of business on 10 the 7th would be when you need the comments. Or -- 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or sooner. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Or sooner. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At the latest, the 14 7th. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At the latest -- at the 16 latest, the 6th, that we can -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Close of business on the 6th, 18 so you can make the changes. 19 MS. PIEPER: I have a question. If this is 20 going to be on view in my office and somebody comes in and 21 requests a copy of it, can the Commissioners Court set an 22 amount so I don't have to charge a dollar per page? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll do that when we get to 24 that. We're not there yet. 25 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 104 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're still working on the 2 draft for the Court to approve to give to the public to come 3 and look at. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Then there will be two 5 weeks after that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will probably be 7 longer. I think last time we did a 30-day public review. 8 We were still trying to get something to the public with -- 9 we were trying to work, really, with the other entities. If 10 someone wants a copy of it, Maggie's got a copy and, you 11 know, just -- 12 MS. BARBEE: Again, do we charge a dollar a 13 page, or what are we going to charge? We have to charge 14 from that office. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If someone wants a copy 16 of the draft, it's -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What do we normally 18 do? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $5. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Five bucks for the 21 whole thing? 22 MS. PIEPER: That's up to y'all. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what we've 24 always done, yes. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $5 for a whole draft. 105 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If someone wants a copy 2 of it at this point, they can certainly get it. I think $5 3 would be an appropriate amount. It's 49 pages long. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When we get this real 5 one out there, it goes up to $10. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You could have bought 7 your copy now. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Please, if you would, 9 I think it would be a great idea to either change the cover 10 sheet, if you're going to distribute these to the public, 11 and this draft, which is now back to -- it's sort of a rough 12 draft. Either take the date off of it and put "DRAFT" on 13 the top and bottom so that there's no confusion, that 14 somebody gets hold of it and thinks it's an adopted 15 document. If you -- we've had that happen. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 'Cause this is purely 18 a draft. It says "draft" on here, but take the date off. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Date off, okay. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do we have a motion to set 21 the price for making this draft available to the public? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved, the $5. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 25 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Commissioners 106 1 Court authorize the County Clerk to make copies of the 2 August 28th, Year 2000, draft of the Kerr County Subdivision 3 Rules and Regulations available to the public at a price of 4 $5 per copy. Any questions or comments? If not, all in 5 favor, raise your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Is that all 10 for that one, Jonathan? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it. I'm just 12 trying to make sure I have nothing planned that weekend. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 17, 14 consider and discuss status review of 911. Commissioner 15 Letz. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For some reason, I have 17 had a -- a rash of complaints, being yelled at, phone calls 18 and everything else regarding 911 and why we can't get 19 streets and things addressed in Kerr County. I feel like 20 I've been overly patient with 911. They basically have been 21 working this -- I guess we approved this, all the guidelines 22 with the City; everyone turned them loose in April, as I 23 recall it. And, as I see it, they're partway through 24 Precinct 4 right now. Maybe that's going at a good speed, 25 but to me that is not. I -- maybe I don't know what they're 107 1 really doing; Larry is far more familiar with it. But, at 2 this pace, we're looking at six months to do part of a 3 precinct, probably the easiest precinct in the county, 4 because there are more long, straight roads, and there's 5 fewer -- I would say, anyway. More was done out there 6 earlier, I think. 7 Anyway, at this pace, we're looking at three 8 to four years to get this county addressed for 911, and to 9 me, that's not acceptable. And I would like to have 911 10 Board -- or have a joint meeting with them. And, basically, 11 I want a -- a detailed timetable as to what they're going to 12 do, and if they don't do it, I want them to make a change in 13 the leadership in that board, it's that simple. I'm fed up 14 with T. Sandlin. He's not getting the job done. That board 15 isn't making him do the job, and I would like to see some 16 changes over there. And I've sat back for six months and 17 let him work, and nothing got accomplished, in my mind. I 18 mean, they're doing stuff, but they're not going very fast. 19 That's my comment. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? Any comments? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that 23 we propose a joint meeting with the 911 Board and 24 Commissioners Court at the next -- at our next meeting. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do we have to invite 108 1 them? What -- how do we do that? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would recommend we -- 3 the Judge invite them. Put it off on him. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be a posed 5 meeting for them, or -- I don't have any problem with that; 6 I'm just asking. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, probably would. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't know -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can they make a day 10 meeting? If not, could we piggyback with a U.G.R.A. 11 meeting? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's difficult for 13 them to make day meetings, thinking of who all is on that 14 board. Now, I'll be happy to talk to the chairman, whomever 15 it might be, and see if we can work out a -- the earliest 16 possible date. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it's important 18 enough, even if we had to do another night meeting. I'd 19 hate to do it the same time as U.G.R.A., 'cause you -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think that would 21 work. I think that would be too -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I feel strongly enough 23 about that, that -- you know, we've -- someone's got to be 24 accountable over there. And, you know, having the eastern 25 part of the county done in -- sometime in 2004 is not 109 1 acceptable. And that's the -- that's the rate they're going 2 at right now. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, if they need -- 5 whatever they need to do, they need to make some changes, in 6 my mind. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As long as they come 8 through my precinct next. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm worried 10 about. That's why I said 2004. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've got to get 12 through yours before they can get to ours, which may make it 13 2005. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If there's anything 15 that -- probably, it's like a lack of visibility into what 16 is the -- what is the process that they're going to march 17 through, and that's -- that's the unknown, to me. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, yeah, it's 19 just -- it's like a black box over there, and I never get a 20 straight answer from them. And they come over here -- T. 21 comes over here and says everything's wonderful and we're 22 going, and we're going to be going fast and it's going to 23 get faster, and nothing happens. And I don't get a 24 schedule, I don't get responses. So, I just -- I'm ready to 25 go to the board, and if they can't, you know, make -- well, 110 1 we have two members that we can sway, hopefully, on that 2 board. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why can't we put it 4 on our next Court agenda and write them -- urge them to be 5 here in attendance? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's really 7 important for them to understand how ticked off I am. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can send them a 9 copy of these minutes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They'll probably know 11 by this time tomorrow night. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: About 3 o'clock 13 tomorrow afternoon, for sure. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think, though, that we need 15 to be conscious of the fact that the board members may or 16 may not be the source of the problem. And they are all 17 volunteers and all have their own activities, so I think 18 what I've heard Commissioner Letz suggest is that -- that 19 his motion is to direct the County Judge to implement the 20 earliest possible opportunity for a joint meeting with the 21 911 Board. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, day or night. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 25 second by Commissioner Baldwin. Any further discussion? If 111 1 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. And 6 the last, but not least, item on the agenda is Item Number 7 18, consider and discuss Change Order Number 4 for the 8 Courthouse Annex Renovation. I'll ask Mr. Longnecker to 9 come to the podium. I'm going to remind everyone that at 10 our meeting earlier on Change Order Number 3, we directed 11 our Project Supervisor/Overseer, whatever we call him, to 12 bring to us at the second meeting of each month the status 13 of any of those change orders. So, Keith, with that 14 reminder, tell us what we have. 15 MR. LONGNECKER: Earlier today I submitted to 16 you the change order form, which I've stated on it that it 17 is incomplete and it's for discussion purposes only. If 18 you'd like, I can go through it item-for-item, which -- from 19 Change Directive 17, which was directed back to the 20 contractor by the architect, and also an owner's directive 21 that I wrote that was also included in this change order. 22 We are having currently a problem with the contractor in 23 getting prices for each item on this -- on this list, and 24 he's especially reluctant and slow in getting us anything 25 where there's a deduction in contract price. I will quickly 112 1 go through each of these items and read to you and tell you 2 what our problem is with each one of them, and then if you 3 have questions, I'll try and answer. 4 Item Number 1, provide minimum size gypsum 5 board furring over the elevator equipment enclosure in lower 6 level existing storage room to enclose entire length of 7 currently exposed conduit and piping along the west wall and 8 above the elevator equipment to comply with the Elevator 9 Code. There's some existing pipes we have run through there 10 and conduit, electrical conduit. And the Elevator Code 11 requires that those be covered up, furred in, or removed 12 because of possibly the fire hazard from the equipment, 13 itself. But, it is a Code requirement before we can get a 14 license to run the elevator from the State. So, this was, 15 of course, a discovered condition, and the contract price is 16 $1,326, minus $100 that we got -- the contractor said they 17 would -- when we complained about it, they would reduce that 18 by $100. And I still, personally, myself, and the architect 19 feel that it's still too high. 20 The second item, eliminate the floor drain 21 and drain line from the lower level elevator equipment room 22 to the elevator pit sump pit, as indicated on sheet M-1, 23 dated 5/5/99. They have submitted no price for that. It 24 should be a deduction in the contract sum. 25 This is showing 4 here, but should be 3. We 113 1 have a condition where an electric line going out to some of 2 the post lamps out on the grounds was severed when 3 excavation was taking place out here on the west side. That 4 needs to be replaced with Number 10 wire. There will be a 5 PVC sleeve underneath the new sidewalks, so this can be 6 pulled either now or at a later time. This price is also 7 very high on -- based on normal construction prices, and -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Pull one wire? 9 They're going to pull one wire for $1,421? 10 MR. LONGNECKER: Well, that includes the 11 excavation, digging the ditch. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 13 MR. LONGNECKER: But it's still quite high, 14 and my contractor's -- the contractor's explanation was that 15 the only thing they have on the job is a backhoe, and that's 16 rather big and cumbersome. It should be done with a 17 ditching machine instead of a -- but, anyway, that price is 18 still in dispute between myself, the architect, and the 19 contractor. 20 Item 5, as it shows on your list, is the 21 deletion of the wood trim on windows in the lower level, 22 because that space will remain unfinished through this 23 contract. We've asked that the wooden trim not be installed 24 on 12 of the windows. There's one of them where it was 25 installed, and I stopped it and said, "Let's not put that 114 1 on, and just save the materials for future use." We do get 2 a credit there. They did give us a price of $867.50. That 3 item, of course, is acceptable. 4 We need some light fixtures to be added to 5 the plaster soffit out here on the west entrance where 6 you'll be coming in, two Type B lights, which are recessed 7 lights that mount at the surface of that ceiling, and they 8 need to be put in in order to keep that area lit up in the 9 evening. They would -- currently, they're to be installed 10 to be on all the time. It could be put on a photoelectric 11 cell, but each time you add something else, the electrician 12 contractor -- the general contractor wants to increase that 13 price. The $1,447 is high for that item, and there's some 14 other lights, exit lights, that's going to be needed based 15 on the removal of the emergency generator. Why that has any 16 effect on it, I can't explain that, but they are needed, and 17 that's included in the $1,447. There, again, we're still 18 high. 19 Item 7, provide conduit for exposed telephone 20 cable in the elevator equipment enclosure in lower level, 21 just this storage room. Again, in part of the Elevator Code 22 there, you're not allowed to have any bare wires or low 23 voltage wires, even, coming in there to that telephone. 24 That's an emergency phone, isn't it, Mike? For this? 25 MR. WALKER: I believe so. 115 1 MR. LONGNECKER: Yeah. And so they want $360 2 for a piece of half-inch conduit, to install it. Item 3 Number 8, revise location and swing of the gate. That's 4 been done. That was at no cost to us to change that. This 5 item is for a self-closing mechanism that automatically 6 locks when leaving, when the gate closes. This is a 6-foot 7 high chain link fence around the equipment within that old 8 existing storeroom down there. Now, they want $233 for 9 that. I have not seen it. I have not seen a submittal on 10 it, so at this point we really don't know. The architect -- 11 you know, we really don't know if that is a good price for 12 that item or not. 13 Moving on, this is an additional light for 14 Door 79 down at the bottom of Stair Number 2. When we 15 revised that from Change Order Number 1, there was lights 16 that did not get added in there for exit lights to go up 17 that stair and come out of that room. We had two doors down 18 there. When you add a door to the stairway, you've got to 19 have an emergency exit light with it. And, $388 is what the 20 electrician wants to furnish and install that light. 21 Number 10 is the Fire Marshal would like for 22 us to put a sign on a door that comes into Stairway 2 across 23 from the basement level of this building to connect the 24 lower level in the basement, and that comes into Stairway 25 Number 2. And, that -- in order to prevent people from 116 1 using that as an exit to get out of the stairway in the 2 event of an emergency, it needs to have a sign on it. My 3 personal feeling is that -- that it could probably be 4 leveled out and done with a decal type of strip that's just 5 simply pasted on the door that you can pick up for $10 or 6 $12, have it made and put on there. So, I want to eliminate 7 that item. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's that door? Where 9 is Door 66? 10 MR. LONGNECKER: There's a new connection now 11 from this basement, which is down -- Mike, what is the 12 bottom of this -- 13 MR. WALKER: Yeah. 14 MR. LONGNECKER: -- stairway over here, and 15 that crosses between the new building and -- or the annex 16 and the old building. It's right directly under the new 17 connection or the new porch, and it runs along the side of 18 the new elevator. 19 MR. WALKER: It's from the -- from the 20 existing -- it's an existing stair into the tunnel between 21 the two buildings. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's an area where 23 the public will be there quite a bit? 24 MR. WALKER: Yes, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason I'm going back 117 1 to -- 2 MR. LONGNECKER: Well, it's to keep the 3 public out of that. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm laughing, 5 'cause Mike and I had a long discussion when we did the 6 signage for this floor a long time ago, and I'm just 7 remembering he told me back then that we had to keep all our 8 signs the same, which -- and we did. He had a good reason 9 for it. I wondered if the signage -- is there going to be a 10 big signage package, basically? Wouldn't this sign be added 11 to that package? Aren't we going to have -- 12 MR. LONGNECKER: No, signage is already in 13 the project, and this is just an additional sign. There is 14 a -- the fellow that -- that furnished Phase I will probably 15 do a sign for less than this. He's the one that started it 16 all, so he's got the setup and everything to do it. And, 17 I -- I feel sure it will be somewhat less than $96. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 MR. LONGNECKER: But, at any rate, the price 20 of this is -- is a little high there. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 22 MR. LONGNECKER: Item 12 on the next page, 23 there is a couple of things where the second floor, new 24 connection to the -- to this building. There's a discovered 25 condition there that we needed a detail and some additional 118 1 joint expansion -- joint detail that would connect that to 2 the existing brick wall of this building. It has to be 3 expandable, so -- because there is a chance for some small 4 amount of movement between the Annex and this building. 5 Sandwich (sic) Glass would be furnishing that. The $1,073 6 shown here is for that material and installation to make 7 that expansion joint connection there. And, this includes 8 Sandwich Glass price plus the mark-up of Stoddard 9 Construction. And we feel that, again, is too high. You 10 know, these are all the problems that we have in getting 11 this change order ready, and it should indicate to you why 12 it -- one of the reasons we're having such a -- taking so 13 long to get a change order ready for the Court to be 14 submitted. 15 Item 14, I wrote a directive August 7th that 16 asks that they leave out a window on the second floor, 17 northwest corner of this building, which is to be in the 18 future storeroom there off of the new Law Library and off of 19 the connecting corridor. And, we are having all kinds of 20 problems in getting them to recognize all of the work that 21 is to be deleted and the materials that are to be deleted 22 for this particular item. They don't recognize the cost and 23 won't -- don't want to give us the cost for removing some 24 400 square feet of existing masonry on that corner which the 25 original drawings called for. They don't want to recognize 119 1 a deletion of work for removing a steel lintel with a couple 2 of columns that were put there to frame the old -- or the 3 connection that was demolished. Used to be the connection 4 between the two buildings from the second floor, and they 5 don't want to -- well, they did show the deletion of the -- 6 the 400 brick -- 400 square feet of brick, but then the 7 repairs to the window, the reinstallation of the old window 8 that was removed where the new connection is being made, it 9 was to go into that space. 10 They don't give us any deletion of price on 11 the removal of the existing shelves which are inside of that 12 room, which is one of the reasons we're not installing that 13 window, is we can leave those shelves there, but they would 14 have had to have taken them out as part of their labor cost 15 to demolish them. So, we cannot get a complete price out of 16 them for this particular item. That was based on my 17 directive. They also knew about this before I wrote the 18 directive, but they -- they have done little or nothing in 19 giving us a credit on the overall contract. And, that -- 20 that is the sum total of these items for Change Order Number 21 4, and that is the status. And if you gentlemen would like 22 to give me any direction on how to -- I might handle any one 23 or all of these items, I'm ready to hear what -- what you 24 can work out. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- is there anything 120 1 in the contract -- either you or Mike, either one -- as to 2 what happens if the contractor won't give you the 3 information you need? Is it silent on that issue? If we 4 have a change order that's needed and they won't 5 cooperate -- I mean the contractor -- is there any recourse 6 under the contract? 7 MR. WALKER: Well, you're starting to get a 8 little bit out of our field, but I'll say that they're 9 required to give you a price for something. Now, they're 10 not required necessarily to give you a reasonable price. 11 That's -- that's where we come in and we make sure they give 12 you a reasonable price. But, yeah, they're required to give 13 us a price for it as part of the conditions of the contract. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it seems to me 15 that what -- that Stoddard is dragging their feet so that 16 they can have their -- their time delays built in, as we 17 went into last time we were here. And, to me, I would -- 18 you know, my recommendation would be probably, one, to get 19 with the County Attorney's office and look at the contract, 20 and second, any communication with them, have it by 21 certified mail so we have -- or fax, some way that we can 22 verify -- probably certified mail, so we know the date that 23 they got it. Because, I mean, the last time it seemed to me 24 that it was a lot of finger-pointing as to, "Well, you said 25 you gave it to us." "Well, no, you didn't." And if they 121 1 have a certified letter requesting these -- basically, the 2 information you gave us, at least they can't say they didn't 3 receive it. 4 MR. WALKER: Well, we have a record of -- of 5 whenever we fax the information out to them. We are not 6 down to the point of communicating with certified letters 7 and registered mail yet, but we -- they get faxes and, of 8 course, our fax logs show when they go out, and they're 9 received and they don't kick back. But, things can happen 10 to faxes, as we all know. But, they're given that 11 information. And, generally, when one of these directives 12 goes out, they're faxed it and they're mailed it. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want to run up 14 the costs, and maybe -- it's probably more appropriate to 15 visit with the -- this is my thought, but with someone in 16 the County Attorney's office as to -- you know, I don't know 17 if it would do any good or not, but some way we can at least 18 have something to say when they come in next time wanting 19 the time, we have a -- a real clear paper trail. Maybe we 20 had it last time; I didn't ask for it. But as to, you 21 know -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Are they giving us, on 23 one of these change orders -- any one of those changes, are 24 they giving us a detailed breakdown, you know, of -- of the 25 deal, that this is a plus, that's a minus, and therefore 122 1 this Change Order so-and-so comes out to $1,308? 2 MR. WALKER: That's part of the delay, 3 Commissioner, is that quite often they'll just send us 4 something that -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: A number. 6 MR. WALKER: A number, and it's got their 7 overhead and profit added to it. We see no detailed 8 breakdown, so that is part of the delay that we experience, 9 I'd say, 95 percent of the time, is give us a breakdown. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To come back to 11 Commissioner Letz's question, you know, from a little 12 different angle, I agree with the Commissioner. But, in 13 terms of the contract, if you don't -- maybe the County 14 Attorney knows. Is there a time specific that they have to 15 respond to us? We're talking about -- 16 MR. LONGNECKER: I know of nothing. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But do they have a 18 time limit on them when they have to get back to us and 19 spend -- 20 MR. WALKER: Best of my recollection, 21 Commissioner, it's the same old standard "reasonable time" 22 language that you always see. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Reasonable becomes 24 unreasonable when they start coming back at us for time 25 delays. 123 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm going to suggest that I 2 write to them a firm, but polite, letter, as I am wont to 3 do, reminding them that at the workshop we had on Change 4 Order Number 3, it was -- they were instructed, as part of 5 their instruction, to submit change orders for the second 6 meeting of each month, and they were also instructed not to 7 do any work unless they had a change order approved for the 8 changes. Which, to me, gives me very good grounds to deny 9 any extensions, and also to put us in a position where, if 10 they won't give us the information, we'll act on the best 11 information available. And then they can come back and say 12 whatever. I mean, I'm really quite tired of Stoddard 13 dragging its feet. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am, too. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is no -- just no way 16 around it; that's what they're doing. I'm not sure they're 17 doing it out of any malice or any intent to extend the 18 contract, because it pretty much -- I think they just don't 19 care about the project and they don't care about us. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like a bad dream that 21 won't go away. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, 23 Judge, and I made the comment several meetings ago that, in 24 my opinion, this whole thing should be turned over to the 25 County Attorney's office. And it made the -- the funny 124 1 section of the newspaper, but I'm dead serious. And I am 2 still dead serious. This is a serious issue. This is 3 costing the taxpayers of Kerr County a tremendous amount of 4 money, and -- and I don't think it's the fault of either one 5 of these two men standing before us. 6 MR. WALKER: Thank you. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the last nice 8 thing I'm saying about you, Walker. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll take that as a 10 consensus, and I will draft such a letter. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 12 MR. LONGNECKER: On the lighter side, I'd 13 like to tell you of a quick little true story. In church a 14 week ago Sunday, I was standing there in our fellowship 15 hall, and a lady came up to me and asked me, she said, "Oh, 16 that Stoddard Construction sign in front of the courthouse 17 over there, it says that they've been building in South 18 Texas for three generations." And she asked me, "Is that 19 true?" And I says, "Well, I suppose it is. I really don't 20 know." She said, "Well, that explains why they're taking so 21 long to get the courthouse finished." 22 (Laughter.) 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that mean here? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, on this project. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Okay, Keith, keep 125 1 pushing. 2 MR. LONGNECKER: Do you want me to meet with 3 the County Attorney or anything of this nature? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. No, not at this time. 5 Okay. Anything else on that item? Anyone else have 6 anything to bring before us today? If not, we stand 7 adjourned. Thank you all. 8 (Meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m.) 9 - - - - - - - - - - 10 11 12 STATE OF TEXAS | 13 COUNTY OF KERR | 14 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 15 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 16 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 17 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 18 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 1st day of September, 19 2000. 20 21 22 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 23 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25