1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Regular Session 10 Monday, September 11, 2000 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X September 11, 2000 PAGE 2 2.1 Approval of tax rate, set public hearing 11 3 2.2 Resolution honoring those who volunteered their 4 time and talents combating recent brush fire 14 5 2.3 Resolution requesting Emergency Coordinator to recommend type & amount of equipment used by 6 VFW's which is eligible for replacement 16 7 2.4 Final plat, La Hacienda Addition 20 8 2.5 Final plat, Tract 204, Turtle Creek Ranches 21 9 2.6 Preliminary replat, Tract 16, Silver Hills 25 10 2.8 Request for OSSF exception, 340 Cedar Springs 28 11 2.9 Request for OSSF exception, Barr Subdivision 43 12 2.7 PUBLIC HEARING - Proposed salary increase for elected officials for FY 2000/2001 51 13 2.13 Issue purchase orders for IBM/6000 mainframe, 14 installation and software 52 15 2.10 Effects of and options to regulation of OSSF for systems handling more than 5,000 gallons 80 16 2.11 Results of Trott Communications report 91 17 2.12 Sending out bids for gasoline 105 18 2.19 Sending out bids for vehicle maintenance 114 19 2.20 Change out-of-county prisoner housing rate 116 20 2.16 Establish no-wake zone for county lakes, set 21 public hearing 121 22 2.15 Construction of two Courthouse parking areas 125 23 2.14 Approve agreement for Indigent Health claims 126 24 2.17 Consider & discuss road signage 127 25 2.18 Transfer of surplus Commissioners Court computer to County Collections Department 130 3 1 On Monday, September 11, 2000, at 9:00 a.m., a regular 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, and 4 the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. It's 9 o'clock 7 on Monday morning, September the 11th. We'll call to order 8 this meeting -- regular meeting of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court. Who's up this morning? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess I am, Judge. 11 Please rise and bow your head, please. 12 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, any citizen who 14 wishes to address the Court on an item not listed on the 15 regular agenda may come forward and do so. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, I have somebody 17 I'd like to introduce to y'all real quick this morning. I'd 18 like to make a few comments to the Court before you get 19 started on your regular agenda, and I'll let him just kind 20 of stand up and tell you who he is, himself, and what he 21 challenges and would like to do. 22 MR. HIERHOLZER: Hi. My name's Glen Hierholzer, 23 and as a landowner here in Kerr County, I really wanted to 24 state that I appreciate all the efforts from the volunteer 25 fire departments. It could have got a lot worse. I really 4 1 appreciate that. So, with that, on behalf of myself, my 2 wife Rebecca, and my two boys, Jonathan and Brinson, I'd 3 like to donate a check for $5,000 to the Kerr County 4 volunteer fire departments to be distributed equally amongst 5 the ones in Kerr County. So, I really appreciate that. 6 (Applause.) 7 MR. HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 8 (Mr. Hierholzer handed his check to Judge Henneke.) 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Knowing who your dad 12 and brother is, you may want to get some of this back before 13 it's over with. 14 MR. HIERHOLZER: Tell you what, they can have 15 it all after all the work everybody done. I'd also like to 16 challenge anybody else, any other landowners in the county, 17 to come forth and donate as well. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 19 MR. HIERHOLZER: They put a lot of effort 20 forward; really appreciate it. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much, Glen. 23 We appreciate that. At this time, we'll have the 24 Commissioners' Comments. Let's start with Commissioner 25 Williams. 5 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, there's just 2 so much on our plates here today and so much for which to be 3 thankful that we tried to express a moment ago. I don't 4 know really where to begin, but I don't think enough can be 5 said for the firefighting team, all of those fire companies, 6 and you gave me a list of them just almost a mile long, but 7 Texas Forest Service, Sheriff's Department, Ingram Marshal's 8 Department, everyone, and just an absolutely heroic effort. 9 And I kind of agree with Glen, who just left, that all the 10 other folks whose homes and property were spared, they 11 should express in their own way their thanks and 12 appreciation to all these people who have done so much. 13 And, if I might, I guess I'd like to -- I'd 14 like to offer for the Court's -- well, it's not on the 15 agenda -- for the Court's concurrence, in a way, I think it 16 would be kind of nice if we, as Commissioners Court, would 17 sponsor and undertake doing an appreciation night at the Ag 18 Barn for all of those who participated in -- in putting out 19 this massive fire. Just a way of saying our thank-yous en 20 masse to all of those, which gives everybody else who has a 21 reason to say thank you an opportunity to do so and express 22 their best wishes to our firefighters and law enforcement 23 and emergency services people. Unless somebody would 24 object, we have tentatively reserved the Ag Barn for the 25 evening of October 6th. And, I suspect there are some folks 6 1 out there who would volunteer cooking some briskets, and I 2 suspect there are some folks out there who would probably 3 give us some briskets and do some other things that might be 4 helpful in putting on an appreciation night. So, that's 5 what I had in mind, Judge. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sounds good to me. Just to 7 follow up on that, quickly, we have reserved the Ag facility 8 for October the 6th for this. It is our intent to invite 9 anyone who participated in the effort and their families to 10 come, which could be a few people, but I think they deserve 11 it. Many of the firefighters and people who volunteered up 12 there were away from their families for several days, and I 13 think we have to remember the contribution families make to 14 the effort. My wife, Becky, has agreed to head up the 15 effort to organize this, and anyone who wishes to help can 16 contact her at 792-4941, or they can contact us here in the 17 Commissioners Court. We will be soliciting donations, as 18 Commissioner Williams pointed out, and food. And anyone who 19 wants to help, willing to step forward, and we'll take 20 advantage of the gratitude towards these people who helped 21 us all in a time of real crisis. So, I think it would be a 22 nice event. We'll get the word out to all the firefighting 23 organizations and other organizations that participated, and 24 hope to have a good turnout on October the 6th. We'll 25 probably plan to eat about, what, 6:00, Commissioner? 7 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so, a 2 nice round number. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I might add to that, 4 for -- I know you have to draw the line somewhere, but for 5 Kerr County fire departments, I think we might invite all 6 the -- all the firemen in those departments, because, I 7 mean, while they may not have -- the individual may not have 8 been specifically out at that fire, they were fighting 9 numerous other fires in this county and surrounding counties 10 at the same time, and I think we probably should include all 11 of the -- certainly, the -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of them. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A major list. I see 15 some on here from as far as Canyon Lake, Hondo, places like 16 that. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Big Bend. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Firefighters from Big 19 Bend. Lots of people. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jonathan? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd just really like to 22 just echo what Bill said, and really single out two people 23 that I think did great on the leadership side, one being 24 Rusty. And I think Rusty did a great job, along with Chief 25 Holloway, in organizing the command post and in -- I guess 8 1 this is the first time I have seen, in Kerr County, this 2 type of situation set up where we needed emergency services 3 coordinated like that, and I thought both Rusty and Chief 4 Holloway did an excellent job, and others who were up there. 5 I'm sure the Forest Service were very much involved; I'm not 6 sure what the man's name was. A lot of Chuck's people were 7 there the whole time as well up there. Hats off to those 8 individuals. 9 The other thing, I'd like to remind everybody 10 that the draft of the Plateau Regional Water Plan is on file 11 in Jannett's office, and also at the Butt-Holdsworth 12 Library, and is also available at ugra.org, The Plateau 13 Water Planning Group icon. Public hearings will be the 25th 14 of this month in Del Rio at 7 p.m. at the Civic Center, and 15 the 26th here in Kerrville at U.G.R.A.'s lecture hall at 16 7 p.m. And also, for anyone who is interested, the same 17 hearing for Region L, which includes San Antonio and 18 everything pretty much to the east and to the south of us, 19 is at Laurie Auditorium, Trinity University, September 27th 20 at 7 p.m. And it will probably -- knowing the way they do 21 things in Region L versus the way we do things, we kind of 22 poor-boy it and they kind of throw big bucks at things; 23 probably be quite a show for anyone that wants to go to 24 Laurie Auditorium, be a good presentation, because the draft 25 plan that I received from Region L literally is probably 9 1 about this high, in three big binders, and all kinds of 2 graphs and charts, and almost -- you know, it's amazing. 3 But, of course, they had -- their budget was about three and 4 a half to four million to do their plan. But, anyway, I 5 think it would be interesting, because what happens in 6 Region L does have a direct impact on what we do in this 7 area. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Larry? 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Nothing to add, except 10 to add thanks to all of those volunteer fire departments and 11 professionals that showed up and did such a great job in 12 controlling what could have been a real disaster, if -- 13 except for the good work of the people who fought it. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Buster? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dittoes. That's all. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm going to take a slightly 17 different twist on the fire. Obviously, great gratitude to 18 the people who put it out, but we're still in the same soup 19 we were. Conditions are almost perfect for that type of 20 event. And, I think, as Jonathan made reference a while 21 ago, so many people were fighting the big one over on 22 Sheppard Rees, during the same time span we had fires at 23 Garven Store, Hunt, near the Sheriff's Department, and 24 Center Point. Almost anything will set off a flame. 25 There's no way under these conditions that you can have a 10 1 controlled burn. There's no way under these conditions that 2 you can be too cautious. If there's any way you can put off 3 working with tools and rock around brush, you should do so. 4 If there's any way you can put off burning anything, even 5 trash in an enclosed container, you should do so. Anything 6 could set off a blaze. Once a blaze gets started, under 7 these conditions, it will race out of control faster than 8 you can imagine. 9 David Abernathy, who is the head of the 10 Texas Forest Service, said that we basically have been in 11 a drought in this area since 1995. 1997 was an average wet 12 year. Since 1995, with the exception 1997, we've had dry 13 conditions. We are in the largest sustained El Nino, 14 La Nina sequence in recorded history, which contributes to 15 dry conditions. The air temperature and the incredibly low 16 humidity makes situations such that fires are inevitable. 17 Mr. Abernathy described the conditions during the fire out 18 on Sheppard Rees that the fire would move as quickly against 19 the wind as it would with the wind, so the firefighters 20 really were not able to gauge and get ahead of the fire very 21 well. They did monumental work saving houses for all of us, 22 but it was extremely dangerous, and I just want to emphasize 23 to the whole community, nothing has changed. That fire may 24 have been put out, but if anything, it's gotten worse 25 because of the lack of rain and the continued dry 11 1 conditions. So, there is no precaution you could take 2 that's too severe. Right, Sheriff? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Definitely. I know 4 there -- ever since that day, ever since this one started, I 5 know of at least three or four a day in different areas of 6 this county the volunteers have had to go to, and you 7 couldn't get any more severe than what we're at right now. 8 Now, I'd like to add just one other comment. In my 20 years 9 of doing law enforcement in this county, it's the first time 10 that I really saw the community pull together to help these 11 firemen. Every merchant, everybody around donated stuff up 12 there, and that saved a lot of firemen, 'cause we had 13 thousands of cases of water and Gatorade and different 14 things, motor homes, buses, to get these firemen in and out 15 of the heat. And I think all the merchants and citizens of 16 this county need a big pat on the back. But, as you're 17 saying, we definitely got to watch every step right now. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. With the Court's 19 indulgence, I'd like to put off the approval agenda until 20 later. We have some things we need to do this morning which 21 have some time sensitivity. I've discussed it with Tommy. 22 He's okay with putting off the bills, so long as we do them 23 before we -- before lunchtime, which we will do. So, let's 24 go straight to the consideration agenda. The first item is 25 consider and discuss approval of proposed tax rate by Court 12 1 record vote and set the public hearing on proposed tax rate 2 for September 19th, Year 2000, at 2:15 p.m. We have set up 3 the budget so that we would retain the same tax rate as last 4 year. Which, Paula, is .3215; is that correct? 5 MS. RECTOR: .3512. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: .3512, that's right. .3512. 7 Do I have a motion -- and we will take a recorded vote on 8 this. Do I have a motion to set the tax rate for Fiscal 9 Year 2000/2001 at .3512? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second, with a question. 12 And the reason I hesitated, our tax rate is made up of many 13 little tax rates. Didn't we adjust some of those smaller 14 tax rates? So, it's not the same as last year. I mean, the 15 total's the same, but the makeup is different. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I think they're after the -- 17 what you're doing today is voting on -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The total? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: The total for Paula's 20 purposes. 21 MS. RECTOR: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, just the total. 23 MS. RECTOR: Just the total. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: The detail will be provided, 25 but what we have to set today is the total. 13 1 MS. RECTOR: Right. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion made by Commissioner 3 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we set the 4 total tax rate at .3512 for Fiscal Year 2000/2001. Madam 5 Clerk, will you call the roll, and we'll have a recorded 6 vote. 7 MS. BARBEE: Jannett does that. 8 MS. PIEPER: Yes, I'll call the roll. 9 Commissioner Griffin? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Aye. 11 MS. PIEPER: Commissioner Letz? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aye. 13 MS. PIEPER: Commissioner Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aye. 15 MS. PIEPER: Commissioner Baldwin? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Aye. 17 MS. PIEPER: County Judge? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Aye. At this time, I'd 19 entertain a motion to set a public hearing on the proposed 20 tax rate for September 19th, Year 2000, at 2:15 p.m., here 21 in the courtroom. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved -- second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 25 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that we have a -- set 14 1 a public hearing on the proposed tax rate for September 2 19th, Year 2000, at 2:15 p.m., such public hearing to be 3 held here in the Commissioners Courtroom. Any questions or 4 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay, Paula, 9 go publish. 10 MS. RECTOR: I'm going. Thank you. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next we'll take up Item 12 Number 2, which is consider and discuss a resolution 13 honoring all the men and women who sacrificed and dedicated 14 their time and talents in battling the recent brush fire in 15 Kerr County. You all have a copy of the resolution in your 16 packets. Any questions or comments? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move to approve. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 20 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve a 21 resolution honoring the men and women who fought the brush 22 fire. Mr. Siemers, you have a comment? 23 MR. SIEMERS: Could you make that "brush fires"? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, this one actually 25 refers to one, but I think it covers everybody. 15 1 MR. SIEMERS: Okay. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 3 comments? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, the -- I guess is 5 the intent to present this to the fire departments or 6 something or do anything with this at the October 6th 7 meeting? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can certainly do that. 9 That's a good idea. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a nice copy to give 11 to each fire department. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can certainly do that. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get it to them on the 14 6th. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. I'll take that as an 16 instruction. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we need to 18 frame them; that might cost a lot. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 20 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll put it on nice 16 1 paper. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll put it on nice paper. 3 MS. NEMEC: I'll donate the frames, how's 4 that? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's going to do 6 that? 7 MS. NEMEC: I'll donate the frames. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 3, 10 which is consider and discuss a resolution requesting the 11 Kerr County Emergency Coordinator to recommend type and 12 amount of equipment used by volunteer fire departments in 13 combating the recent brush fires that are eligible for 14 replacement by Kerr County. I put this on the agenda, but 15 it was really at the request of Commissioner Letz, so 16 Commissioner Letz, you want to -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, my -- I think my 18 concern is a couple of things. One, you know, I think it 19 may be appropriate to, you know, provide some reimbursement, 20 either of time and/or equipment, to the fire departments 21 that helped in this fire from the County. I mean, we do 22 help fund all the volunteer fire departments in the county 23 and city of Kerrville. As I understand, we can't give 24 donations, but if we were to get some sort of a list of how 25 many man hours each fire department worked and equipment 17 1 time, we may be able to do some sort of assistance. And, my 2 thinking on it, really, is that there were a lot of fire 3 departments from outside the county that came in and helped 4 here, and if we ever had this problem again, it would be 5 nice to have them come help again. And I think it's a -- 6 you know, it's a way to really help volunteer fire 7 departments. Money is real important; I mean, they always 8 have a real hard time raising money, and I think money would 9 probably go longer than any thank-you you can give them by 10 resolution. So, if there's a way to try to find out -- get 11 a handle, or start getting a handle on what that amount may 12 be or how we start trying to determine how much we would 13 disburse to some of the fire departments, and if they did 14 lose any equipment or anything like that. 15 The other part of it is that I -- I think it 16 would be helpful -- we need to start accumulating this 17 information or help the coordinator accumulate it. If it is 18 declared -- if the President declares a disaster, a lot of 19 this recordkeeping will be very helpful down the road for 20 everyone involved. It will be a first step. I, personally, 21 would be rather surprised if it is declared a disaster, but 22 you never can tell. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Actually, it has been. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It has been, really? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: And David Abernathy met with 18 1 the -- one of the heads of the agencies last Thursday and 2 went over the reimbursement process. We will be eligible 3 for reimbursement of up to 70 percent of the expendables, 4 being fuel, equipment, those types of things, used in 5 fighting the brush fire for those fire departments that were 6 actively involved. According to Mr. Abernathy, he has good 7 records for who was involved once they took over, and his -- 8 the purpose of his meeting last Thursday, which I thought 9 was very fine, was to basically tell everybody to get your 10 documentation together now. I think, between the Sheriff 11 and Chief Holloway, they have a very good idea of who was 12 out there when, so we have the basis for the recordkeeping 13 we're going to need in order to request reimbursement on 14 behalf of the County and those organizations that were out 15 there fighting the fire. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, if it's being done, 17 we probably don't need any action on this item. Sounds like 18 it's -- 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only thing is, it 20 will probably take FEMA -- I think David said it could be up 21 to six months before they even get here to start putting 22 together all that because of the amount of disasters and 23 fires and that that they're having all over the U.S. So, 24 it's -- David was really trying to encourage everybody to 25 start, you know, getting all that documentation together, so 19 1 that six months from now, we have it all and nobody's trying 2 to go back and remember. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll agree with that. 4 And it serves a number of purposes. One, if we want to do 5 anything from the County's standpoint, it will also help 6 them down the road in any FEMA assistance. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're compiling all 8 the numbers, Forest Service and Kerrville Fire Department, 9 even as we speak. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Does this include the 12 private business involvement? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All that, the 15 services? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As much as I can gather, 17 it will. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Property damage, where 20 landowners -- landowners have lost, I imagine when FEMA gets 21 here, if they do like they did the last time David's talking 22 about, they set up a little office where those people can 23 come in and turn in their stuff to them directly, and 24 hopefully some of it will be eligible for reimbursement for 25 them. Some of it may not be. We just don't know. 20 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are you comfortable with 2 where we are? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm comfortable with 4 where we are. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 4, 6 consider the final plat of La Hacienda Addition, Precinct 4. 7 Commissioner Griffin. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Franklin? 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Lee Voelkel couldn't be here 10 this morning; he had to take one of his children to the 11 doctor. I talked to him earlier. He said La Hacienda would 12 like to pass. He said 911 does not -- has not returned 13 their signature on the final plat; they'd like to pass that 14 till next meeting. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- say that 17 again? 911 has not returned -- 18 MR. JOHNSTON: He says that that's the only 19 one he hasn't -- he has all the mylars signed except 911's 20 as of this morning, so he wanted to pass it. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason he 22 doesn't have 911? 23 MR. JOHNSTON: Didn't -- he said it hasn't 24 got back. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Item Number 5, 21 1 consider the final plat of Tract Number 204, Turtle Creek 2 Ranches, Precinct 1. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: I think you were short on your 4 number of plats; didn't have enough. This one's been here 5 several times. I think we had two preliminaries and a 6 variance on it. I recommend approval. It's a little 7 two-lot subdivision. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 MR. JOHNSTON: This is the acreage that's on 10 a -- on a road dividing off one lot, and it was granted a 11 variance as to frontage on that Lot Number 204-2. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In July, we had the -- 14 we approved a variance in the preliminary portion of it. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And today's the final? 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Final. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On that. I move we -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: May I ask a question first? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Certainly. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: The 150-foot sanitary 22 easement that's on Lot 204-1, do they have the easement? It 23 goes across the road, apparently, onto the adjacent 24 landowner's property. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, I guess they can only 22 1 designate on their own property. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do they have the -- do they 3 have the easement from the adjacent landowner? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He owns -- he owns 5 this. All of this. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does he own over there? 7 MR. JOHNSTON: But not across the road. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But not across the 9 road, no, huh-uh. 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Apparently, U.G.R.A. signed 11 off on this as the representative of Headwaters. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'm not 13 following your -- no, I think he's talking about this right 14 here. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: If you see -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 150 feet would be -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which goes across the road. 18 I'm just wondering whether he's gotten permission from -- 19 looks like David J. Davis to encumber Mr. Davis' land with 20 that sanitary easement. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I cannot answer that. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: No, it doesn't show the 23 easement going across the road, just on their property. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't -- isn't that 25 easement just -- I mean, is it a -- it's not a recorded 23 1 easement. Is it just a boundary around the well? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it's a recorded 3 easement. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's get on the same 5 page here. Are we talking about this here? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or down here? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, you're correct, the one 9 at the top. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, 150 feet. You're 11 saying from -- 150 feet from that line would cross the 12 public road over into someone else's property, actual -- 13 MR. JOHNSTON: Actually, yeah. If you finish 14 the circle, it would cross the road. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Into someone else's 16 property? Or are you counting the right-of-way? 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Well it crosses the County 18 right-of-way onto someone else's property, but I don't think 19 the easement extends across there. It doesn't show the 20 boundary across that. Headwaters did sign off on it the way 21 it is. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think what it's 23 showing is that on this tract, that that easement exists. 24 And it may exist or may not, but it wouldn't make any 25 difference as far as this process. 24 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: I assume that they -- if 4 someone develops the other side, then we'd look at it at 5 that point, not permit the development in that. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 8 the final plat of Tract Number 204, Turtle Creek Ranches, in 9 Precinct 1. Any further questions or comments? If not, all 10 in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe that becomes 17 effective if they ever try to put a septic system in. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know -- could we 19 back up? Just a question for Franklin, if he knows, on La 20 Hacienda Addition. These dates are fairly old that have 21 been signed off by the other offices, and I'm just 22 wondering -- I mean, I think -- I mean, I'm concerned if -- 23 if 911 is holding this up for a long period of time. And we 24 have some of these dates. The U.G.R.A. signed it in -- 25 three weeks ago, and I think we have 30 days under our 25 1 rules, that once they -- I think we have 30 days after they 2 get the final. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: After they get the final. I 4 don't know a lot of the details. He didn't explain it. I 5 just -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to make sure that 7 everyone gets these out timely. Do you have a pen for the 8 Judge? 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Oh, I'm holding everything up 10 here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, since it's in my 13 precinct, I intend to ask why. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 6, consider the 15 preliminary replat of Tract 16 of Silver Hills, Precinct 2. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Johnston? 17 MR. JOHNSTON: This replat is dividing a lot 18 into two lots with a 60-foot road right-of-way shown. I 19 think the purpose of this is to build a road into -- to a 20 new subdivision that has not received any notice yet. We 21 haven't received a preliminary plat on it. We have -- 22 Commissioner Williams and have I been out on the site and 23 looked at the property, and we advised the developer he 24 needed some drainage studies to be done before he brought it 25 to the Court. It already crossed Turtle Creek from River 26 1 Road through a low water crossing, and we indicated at that 2 time it would need a high water exit for safety purposes. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We -- 4 MR. JOHNSTON: And this is just a partial, 5 you know, solution to that problem, and it probably really 6 should be looked at in the overall concept with that lot -- 7 with that subdivision. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with the 9 County Engineer. We met with some concerned homeowners -- 10 landowners that surround this particular larger tract that's 11 shown on the right of the map, 242 acres which is proposed 12 to be developed, and one of the major concerns of the -- of 13 the surrounding landowners was the fact that there was only 14 one ingress and egress, and it was through a low water 15 crossing off Turtle Creek Road. And sometimes, if ever we 16 get rain, it becomes impassable. I think the larger 17 question -- and as a result of that, the developer then went 18 out and secured this Tract 16, apparently, in Silver Hills 19 for the purpose of spurring off of the Silver Hills Road and 20 coming into his property on -- I guess you'd call it the 21 back side. We still haven't seen anything in terms of 22 what's being proposed for the 242 acres, only that it is to 23 be developed. We don't know how many lots or what the whole 24 deal is about. We don't know about the drainage, don't know 25 about anything. I really think, while it's on the agenda 27 1 today, I'd rather see us set it aside and not take action on 2 it. If the developer is anxious to have all this happen, he 3 can tell us what he's going to do with the 242 acres. 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Do it in conjunction with 5 that -- that part of -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In conjunction with 7 the Silver Hills, yes. I would just urge us to pass by it, 8 not take any action on it. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I had was -- 10 whoever, Franklin may relay it -- if the road does go where 11 they're showing it, that Tract 16-A is not -- doesn't have 12 the proper frontage on the road, as I see it. That's only 13 120 foot, which it needs to be -- if he's going to do 14 something like this, he needs to put the road so he can 15 develop on both tracts. 16 MR. JOHNSTON: I think there's a little note 17 up there that says this road is a public read. So, that 18 entire 60-foot right-of-way would be a public access, so 19 they would have all that frontage also. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: I brought that up to the 22 developer. He said they were going to develop -- dedicate 23 that road. My concern, if there's a lot more traffic put on 24 Silver Hills Road, that that road could not withstand a 25 whole lot more traffic. It's a very narrow road, probably 28 1 needs some upgrading as a result of this. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need to 3 know about the whole picture. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do. See the big 5 plan. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. The next item is 8 Item Number 7, which is a public hearing on the proposed 9 increase in elected officials' compensation, which is 10 scheduled for 10 o'clock. We're going to pass over that 11 until the anointed hour and proceed with Number 8. Number 8 12 is a request for exception to O.S.S.F. Reg. 808.02(b), 13 property transfer. Good morning. 14 MS. WHITESIDE: Hi there. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Before we get started 16 here, this is one that -- this is one that I have worked 17 with. Charlie Wiedenfeld at U.G.R.A. has recommended that 18 it be approved. I'll let Ms. Whiteside go through this. 19 He's recommending that we approve the exception. There are 20 some circumstances, I think, that -- that Ms. Whiteside can 21 explain to us, and our designated representative has 22 recommended approval. 23 MS. WHITESIDE: Okay. I represent Michael 24 Blackburn, who is the heir to the estate of his father, 25 Victor Blackburn, who owns the property at 340 Cedar 29 1 Springs. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you pull the 3 microphone -- 4 MS. WHITESIDE: Is that better? Do you want 5 me to start over? Okay. I represent Michael Blackburn. He 6 is the heir to his father's property. His name is Victor 7 Blackburn. He did reside at 340 Cedar Springs in Cedar 8 Springs Mobile Home Park. Mr. Blackburn is attempting to 9 sell the mobile home that his father owned, and through the 10 course of showing the property and having an offer on the 11 property, it was found out that Mr. Blackburn and the 12 next-door neighbor share a septic system, and it's been that 13 way since 1972. This summer, Mr. and Ms. Sumner, who owned 14 next door -- both of them are in nursing home facilities. 15 Their daughter, Linda Watts, sold their home to Mr. and 16 Mrs. O'Conner, who were also aware that they were sharing a 17 septic system. We had an offer on Mr. Blackburn's mobile 18 home, and we are just trying to resolve the issue of the 19 septic system. 20 Charlie and Mark went out to the property -- 21 Charlie and Mark from U.G.R.A. went out to the property and 22 determined that there was a system there that was 23 functioning, but there was no room on the adjacent property 24 for the O'Conners to place a septic system, which means if 25 they are not allowed to share this system and continue to 30 1 use it the way it's been used, they have no sewer. So, 2 we're asking for an exception to this rule to continue 3 sharing this septic system between these two owners. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Since it was inspected 5 and operating properly, these are -- I forgot, how many 6 occupants are there? 7 MS. WHITESIDE: There are two occupants in 8 each home. It's a two-bedroom, bath and a half at 340 Cedar 9 Springs, and three-bedroom, two bath at the adjacent 10 property. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The recommendation 12 was -- was that for this change of ownership, that the 13 exception be allowed. We'd have to look -- if there were 14 another transfer of ownership, we would have to review that 15 again. And the ultimate solution here, we're hoping, is 16 that there will be a central system that is extended to this 17 area and to this property in the foreseeable future. 18 MS. WHITESIDE: In our efforts to get a 19 contract on this property, which we did have up until last 20 Friday -- this all scared the gentleman away and he's 21 looking elsewhere now, but we have a -- intended to have a 22 septic maintenance agreement prepared by Jarrod Hamil at 23 Kerr County Abstract, and he would prepare something that's 24 similar to a well maintenance agreement, whereby the parties 25 understand that they share equally in the cost of 31 1 maintenance and upgrading of any future system. So, if this 2 system should fail, they will have to sign something with 3 the understanding that they may have to put something else 4 in place if this system doesn't continue to function. Right 5 now, we don't have a contract. It went away. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In Mr. Williams' 7 prayer this morning, he asked the Lord to keep us all 8 humble, so I want to try to -- try to be humble here. It 9 says in our request here, a request for exception from 10 Regulation 808. What is 808, oh great guru of septic tanks? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's a -- hang on. 12 8.02 is -- this is a -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 MS. WHITESIDE: I took that number from 15 Charlie. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 8.02 instead of 17 808.02. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 8.02. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be Section 20 8? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Point 02(b). 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't find it. As I 23 was looking this over over the weekend, trying to -- you see 24 it there? 25 (Discussion off the record.) 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As I was looking over 2 it over the weekend, trying to figure out what we were 3 making an exception to, I really -- I really couldn't see 4 that in our -- in our regulations, 8.02. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's in the -- do 6 you have the new one or the old one? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Larry, I don't 8 know. I have -- I have a wheelbarrow full of these in 9 there. I think this is the latest -- that is the latest 10 date on it of -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Probably the one that's 13 currently in effect. I think -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it's the one 15 currently in effect, not the one -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- that's awaiting 18 T.N.R.C.C. approval. But, it is the requirement -- it is 19 the requirement that says that at -- at time of sale, that 20 the license has to be, you know, transferred and all that 21 sort of thing. Well, in essence, this is an old, 22 grandfathered system that is -- would not be licensed under 23 our current guidelines. And what -- and what Charlie has 24 recommended is that this exception be made for this transfer 25 of ownership only, and under conditions of the old contract. 33 1 Now, we've got a little -- since that contract no longer 2 exists -- 3 MS. WHITESIDE: Well, we're -- that's where 4 we were Friday. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The fact is, there is 6 no -- it's either that or kick people off the property, 7 'cause there's not enough room to put a septic system -- 8 here's Charlie. We'll let him fill us in a little bit on 9 this, but it -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's not enough 11 room for a -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can't put another 13 licensable system on the property. 14 MS. WHITESIDE: On the adjacent property. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Alternate-type system 16 or otherwise? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's correct. But 18 this shared system works fine if it -- this would not be a 19 problem under our current rules if there was one tract. You 20 know, it's -- it's a pretty unique situation. Charlie, can 21 you help us with this? This is on -- 22 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes. It's a piece of 23 property that is very small, less than two-tenths of an acre 24 or right at two-tenths of an acre, and they're sharing a 25 septic system with a neighboring piece of property, which is 34 1 about two-tenths of an acre also. The neighboring property 2 has encumbered 90 percent of their property with 3 improvements, and there is absolutely no place for them to 4 put a septic system without removing everything. Even on 5 the property that's being sold at this time, there is -- 6 probably 40, 50 percent of that property is encumbered by 7 improvements. One nice live oak tree is probably the 8 biggest asset on that piece of property, and if do you 9 anything, you'd have to take that -- that live oak out. The 10 other liability to the County is that, you know, we'd have 11 to be encroaching on property setbacks. We could -- we'd 12 have to have -- grant waivers to property setbacks. There's 13 a public water well in very near proximity; we'd probably be 14 encroaching on that to some extent. My recommendation is 15 let's leave it as-is, leave it in place. At this time, the 16 systems don't appear to be failing. There is no nuisance 17 conditions evident. And, I suppose the owners have shown 18 due diligence in using very little water, both owners, and 19 they recognize they have a serious problem there, but I -- I 20 don't see a solution that we can improve on the existing 21 situation by putting in a septic system. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's no way that 23 you can put -- I saw Mr. Digges walk in, the master of 24 alternate systems. There is no way that you can put any 25 kind of alternate system on this other piece of property 35 1 without infringing on water wells and -- 2 MR. WIEDENFELD: Trying to license something 3 at this time under current State rules, we could probably 4 license a system that -- for maybe somewhere in the area of, 5 oh, 50 gallons of waste load a day, which, you know, we can 6 put a licensed septic system in; I'm not saying we can't. 7 But, again, that is -- I -- you know, I don't know that it's 8 actually serving the purpose that, you know, we're having 9 this individual go through the process and -- for putting in 10 a licensed septic system when we don't really know the one 11 that's in the ground is causing nuisance conditions, having 12 problems, and -- and that kind of stuff. And I don't know 13 that we're achieving the intent of what the septic program 14 is about. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many lots are in this 16 subdivision? Is it pretty large? 17 MR. WIEDENFELD: Pretty large. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All the same size as 19 this? 20 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're going to 22 have a repeat of this problem, right, later? 23 MR. WIEDENFELD: We've had many problems in 24 this park already, but we've been able to get a septic 25 system in most all cases. 36 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I look at this as similar 2 to the one we had in my precinct not long ago on -- along 3 Cypress -- whatever it's called, where the red shed is. 4 What's the name of that? 5 MR. WIEDENFELD: Oh, yes. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cypress Park, Pecan 7 Creek, whatever that subdivision is. Anyway, we have these 8 around the county, and I don't think we can -- to me, you 9 have to give a variance. I mean, you can't take people's 10 property. And when we have these, we try to improve them 11 where we can; if possible, we try to make them better if we 12 can. We really have to let -- if they're not failing, to 13 me, you let them operate. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the point. I 15 think that's the point. Hopefully, we'll get a central 16 system up, some kind of central system in this area, because 17 we do have these kind of things. We need this in other 18 places in the county, too. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably not a great 20 deal of difference in the one up in my precinct, Hill River 21 Estates, where people -- if you don't -- if you don't work 22 with them, they take things in their own hands and do 23 nothing at all, and we've experienced that, as well. If a 24 variance would keep us from having raw sewage running on the 25 ground like we have at Hill River Estates, I'd be in favor 37 1 of a variance, even though it is a -- not a good solution. 2 Are we giving a variance to the owner of the trailer with 3 the septic, or are we giving a variance to the owner of the 4 trailer without the septic? I'm not sure I understand. 5 MS. WHITESIDE: 340 Cedar Springs is owned by 6 Mr. Blackburn. That's who is requesting -- I'm requesting 7 on his behalf. He lives in Ruidosa, New Mexico, and I 8 represent him as the seller of his property, and he's 9 requesting the variance. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And he currently has 11 a septic system? 12 MS. WHITESIDE: On his property. And in 13 1972, he allowed the people next door to tie onto that. 14 There's a lot of history of this little subdivision that 15 I've learned in the last couple of weeks, but the people who 16 owned it said, "You've been renting this. Now you own it; 17 you can have it," and didn't -- and they allowed them to put 18 in a septic system, and they've been sharing it since 1972. 19 And now the people who have that gentlemen's agreement are 20 sick or deceased, and so new -- we have new people who have 21 been sort of thrown into this, and now these people have a 22 home, and if we don't allow them to share this, they either 23 have to move their home somewhere else or just stop flushing 24 the toilet. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or do what they do at 38 1 Hill River Estates. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems to me that we're 3 granting a variance to the other property owner, allowing 4 them to have a home there and function without a septic 5 system. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it seems 7 to me. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because they have an 9 agreement to share the other system. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever the reason. 11 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, the way I understand 12 the request is, she's asking a request for the -- an 13 exception to the rule -- the Kerr County rule only that 14 requires a septic to be licensed at the time of sale. This 15 system, anywhere else in the state of Texas, as long as it's 16 in the condition it is, it's an authorized discharge; it's a 17 lawful discharge, but Kerr County regulations require that 18 they be licensed at the time of sale, so that's the 19 exception you're -- she's asking. I understand the 20 exception is an exception to the rule that requires a system 21 to be licensed at the time of sale, and the one that is 22 selling is only the one person. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the essence. 24 MR. WIEDENFELD: -- that could be an argument 25 later for the other seller. 39 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We'd have to address 2 that at that time. 3 MR. WIEDENFELD: At that time. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I -- I will make 5 the motion that we -- we grant this exception as -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: The problem we have, 7 Commissioner, is there's no sale. If -- 8 MS. WHITESIDE: Well, we will. We have 9 someone else looking today. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we have another 11 contract pending -- 12 MS. WHITESIDE: There's not a contract 13 pending, but we've had quite a bit of interest. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: You typically don't grant 15 variances for transfers unless there's a transfer pending. 16 In other words, we don't say, "Okay, it's all right for you 17 to go ahead and sell the property," unless there's an actual 18 sale in the works. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, you're saying we'd 20 have to wait until we have a signed contract? Where does 21 that -- let me ask this, then. When does the, quote, sale 22 occur? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, they're asking us for a 24 variance to the requirement that a system be licensed when 25 it's sold, but right now they don't have a buyer, so they're 40 1 coming to us more in the nature of an advisory opinion. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. But I still ask 3 you, at what point, then, would they come back to us? At 4 the point the contract is signed? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, signed and accepted. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do you have a signed 7 and accepted contract yet? 8 MS. WHITESIDE: No. The -- we did until 9 Friday. Friday, the gentleman making the offer changed his 10 mind. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Into the mic, please. 12 MS. WHITESIDE: The gentleman who made the 13 offer changed his mind Friday. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. Well, then I 15 think we have to -- I agree with the Judge. We probably -- 16 we have to wait until we have a -- a sale pending, but as 17 soon as you have a signed contract, we can put it back on 18 the agenda. 19 MS. WHITESIDE: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now that we've 21 discussed it, I think we all understand what the situation 22 is, so we may shorten up the next discussion considerably, I 23 would hope. 24 MS. WHITESIDE: Okay. So, you meet every two 25 weeks? 41 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Meet every two weeks. 2 MS. WHITESIDE: Okay. So, the issue of 3 sharing the septic, does that need to be discussed in the 4 future? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It would have to be on 6 a case-by-case basis, but I think we understand the case 7 here. 8 MS. WHITESIDE: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So -- but we need to 10 have a pending -- a real, pending sale -- 11 MS. WHITESIDE: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- is the Judge's 13 point, and I tend to agree with that, because the next buyer 14 may want to put in a shopping center. 15 MS. WHITESIDE: Right. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We have no way of 17 knowing that they don't, is the point. 18 MS. WHITESIDE: I understand. Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think your question 20 was, is there a variance needed to share the system. And, 21 Charlie? 22 MR. WIEDENFELD: I'd have to look into that a 23 little further, and we might need a legal opinion on that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, I 25 think if we -- you know, in -- 42 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We have several of 2 those in the county, don't we? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I don't know. I 4 wouldn't be surprised if we do. But I think -- I mean, I 5 certainly don't want to have to, you know, come back and all 6 of a sudden say, you know, "You need to get this variance." 7 MS. WHITESIDE: Right. I'd like to know if 8 we have to come back. 9 MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, if you're going to 10 license a system, then the system should be on the piece of 11 property -- the septic has to be on the piece of property 12 that goes with the -- that generates the waste. So, that's 13 where the problem that's down the road is, that if that 14 other -- if you cut that other person off of the other 15 septic system, you've essentially taken their property from 16 them, because they don't have any place to put a septic 17 system. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 19 MS. WHITESIDE: See, they were allowed to 20 close on their property at the title company with one of 21 those -- what is it? That -- 22 MR. WIEDENFELD: Oh, Affidavit of 23 Responsibility? 24 MS. WHITESIDE: Affidavit of Responsibility 25 that they will do something in 90 days. Well, they were 43 1 just at 90 days, and I don't think they're doing anything. 2 I'm doing it. So, anyway, we did have a valid contract at 3 the time I brought this -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 5 MS. WHITESIDE: -- to the agenda, but I 6 understand. So, hopefully, we'll be back in two weeks. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Best solution would be if 8 one property owner would buy the other property owner out. 9 MS. WHITESIDE: None of them have that much 10 money. 11 MS. WHITESIDE: Thanks, Charlie. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 13 MS. WHITESIDE: Uh-huh. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 9, 15 which is consider and discuss a request for exception to 16 Kerr County O.S.S.F. Rule for Lots 1 and 2 of Barr 17 Subdivision. Commissioner Griffin. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is a little bit 19 the same kind of thing. Charlie? And, Charlie -- Charlie 20 and Charlie may get involved; both of you may get involved 21 in this, but go ahead. 22 MR. DIGGES: Well, we're going to be kind of 23 in the same boat as the last situation. We don't have a 24 pending contract, and yet, at the same time, I feel like 25 the -- both the buyer and the seller need direction as to 44 1 what the Court would allow. Otherwise, you have someone 2 sign on a dotted line on a contract, and not fully knowing 3 that they're buying into a -- you know, what particular 4 scenario they're buying into, and that's what makes it 5 difficult. That's why I'm here today, to get some direction 6 from you all. This particular situation is, Mrs. Barr has 7 lived at this location for over 40 years, and there's two 8 homes on the -- on the two tracts. And, the -- the purpose 9 of us subdividing the property was to allow her to sell Lot 10 1, and I don't know if you've got that picture there in 11 front of you, but Lot 1, that 0.83 acres, is where her son 12 resides, and she wants to be able to transfer that parcel to 13 him. 14 Now, I guess you could you say that's 15 pending, 'cause as soon as the subdivision is approved and 16 you all were to approve this, then she would go ahead and 17 execute that. There would be some remaining future sale 18 of -- of Lot 2. That's where her previous residence was. 19 She's currently moved to another location in preparation for 20 selling Lot 2. It is served by -- by three septic systems. 21 The -- the home on Lot 2 is served by two, and the -- and 22 the home on Lot 1 is served by one septic. We have done 23 research of soil profiles and done computations to determine 24 that there is enough reserve area to -- for future septics, 25 if needed. She is in the -- the city limits; however, as -- 45 1 and she's on Goat Creek Road. She -- she's about, oh, a 2 little less than an eighth of a mile from the end of Lime 3 Creek Subdivision that's there on the other side of -- of 4 Goat Creek Road, and that's where the sewer is. So, there's 5 been research done by the city staff to hook her onto city 6 sewer, but between the extension of the line, the manholes 7 that were needed, the jacking and boring of Goat Creek Road, 8 it was going to run about $65,000. And, you know, if there 9 was a 50-lot subdivision, you could, you know, afford that 10 expense, perhaps, to bring a sewer, but when it comes to 11 just two parcels, and one of them is a -- is a gift parcel, 12 it's hard to justify that expense. 13 The other dilemma is that there are folks 14 that are looking at developing to the west and north of her, 15 which might bring that 50-, 100-lot subdivision, and then 16 sewer would be extended. And the dilemma that she's faced 17 with if she pays to upgrade her septics now, the City has a 18 regulation that if you're within 100 foot of -- of city 19 sewer, you must hook on, so she could bear the expense of 20 upgrading the septics only to have them abandoned in a few 21 years after sewer is brought by her property. These types 22 of -- I know of one other instance where an exception like 23 this was granted in the past. It was, like, in 1993 or 24 1994, and it was the same scenario; inside the city limits 25 with a functioning septic system, and -- and a variance was 46 1 granted. It was done at the staff level. It was done with 2 City staff and the Environmental Health staff agreed to a 3 letter -- they all signed off on a letter of understanding. 4 But, that's why we're here today, is to define that. 5 Each one of these systems is -- they're older 6 systems. They're not licensed, and the percentage of 7 unlicensed systems now passing the U.G.R.A. inspection is 8 almost nil, and so the possibility of these passing would -- 9 you know, it's just not there. And plus we've got the 10 dilemma of the well that's in too close a proximity to the 11 drain field for the -- one of the drain fields on Lot 2. 12 What she would do if you all granted this variance to allow 13 her to use the existing septics as they are, she would plug 14 that well to Headwaters' standards, and she would tie onto 15 city water. There is city water along the front of her 16 property. There is not city sewer. And, so, she'll plug 17 the well and then tie onto city water on Lot 2. Lot 1 is 18 already currently served by -- by city water. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see this a little 20 differently than the other one. Number one, I don't see how 21 you know -- how you think you know that they won't pass 22 U.G.R.A. -- U.G.R.A. standards. 23 MR. DIGGES: Well, I -- I had to get my -- my 24 knowledge of how this was going updated. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have they failed? Has 47 1 their septic tank failed? 2 MR. DIGGES: It hasn't failed in the respect 3 of backing up into the house or surfacing effluent. The 4 dilemma comes in -- in '97, the State altered their 5 definition of repair and altering a system, and it made it 6 so that you couldn't -- you hardly couldn't do anything to a 7 system without doing a full upgrade. And the State has 8 passed that on to U.G.R.A., that they want to enforce it, 9 and in that manner, and so you -- and Charlie is here; he 10 can correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding you 11 can't -- if you said, "Okay, this would pass if we just 12 added on another 50 foot of drain field," they won't let you 13 do that. They would -- they would make you do it so it was 14 fully compatible environmentally, and -- and the sizing of 15 it would be much bigger than just adding on 50 feet. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Personally, I find 17 that ridiculous, but that's beside the point. And I see 18 that -- and I understand that the -- there is going to be a 19 development on out Goat Creek Road down there, a quarter of 20 a mile maybe even past Mrs. Barr's house. And, my 21 understanding is that the City is going to eventually run 22 their systems down that way anyway. So, this is a different 23 scenario, in my opinion. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How about a more basic 25 question I'd like to ask Charlie? If this is in the city 48 1 limits -- right? 2 MR. DIGGES: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Then how do we have 4 jurisdiction? We don't. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This would have to be 7 worked through City of Kerrville instead of the County. We 8 don't -- we don't have the right to grant the exception if 9 it's in the city limits, do we? 10 MR. WIEDENFELD: I'll answer that. We have 11 an interlocal agreement with the City of Kerrville to 12 administer their septic program within the city limits. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that still -- 15 that's -- we grant a variance? Or that they would request a 16 variance? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Per the interlocal 18 agreement, we don't. You do -- U.G.R.A. does, right? 19 MR. WIEDENFELD: Their rules mirror the Kerr 20 County rules. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: But the -- the Commissioners 22 Court is not the body that you've contracted with to enforce 23 rules in the city. You've contracted with the City. If 24 you, the U.G.R.A., has contracted with the City to enforce 25 the City's septic rules in the city -- 49 1 MR. WIEDENFELD: Yeah. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- we don't have the ability 3 to grant a variance within the city. 4 MR. WIEDENFELD: I understand. That was -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I hope we grant 6 a variance. I'm all for granting a variance. 7 MR. WIEDENFELD: You don't have any -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The problem is just a 9 jurisdictional one. It's -- whether we agree or disagree 10 with all the issues -- 11 MR. DIGGES: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- that are raised. 13 It's just that we can't grant a variance if it's in the city 14 limits. City Council can -- however they're set up to do 15 that; I guess it's the council. But the council can -- 16 could -- could grant the variance, but we can't. 17 MR. DIGGES: Yes, I can see that. I can see 18 that now. And perhaps that's why it was done on the other 19 one I was mentioning. It was at the staff level between the 20 Health Department and City staff, the Public Works of the 21 City that made that agreement before. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Griffin? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we changing the 50 1 verbiage from "variance" to "exception"? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think there is -- 3 Charlie? We're using the word "exception" rather than 4 "variance" because of what reason? I remember you and I 5 discussed this. 6 MR. WIEDENFELD: Okay. It's my understanding 7 the exception -- they're asking for an exception to the 8 rule, in that they don't want to -- they don't want to 9 provide any other alternative to me. I can -- I've granted 10 a variance in that if I give them a year to put in a 11 licensed septic system, I understand that to be a variance, 12 'cause I -- we're just taking some other alternative method. 13 But if they just do not want to comply with your rule 14 whatsoever, that, to me, is an exception to the rule and 15 comes to -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Rather than a 17 variance, because a variance indicates that there's some 18 attempt at either future compliance or an alternative way of 19 meeting the requirement. And that's not the case here. 20 Thank you for asking the question, 'cause now I've got it 21 clarified in my mind. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. We're going to 23 back up now, since it's 10 o'clock, to Item Number 7 and 24 conduct a public hearing on proposed salary increases for 25 elected officials of Kerr County, Texas, for Fiscal Year 51 1 2000 and 2001. 2 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:00 a.m., and a public hearing 3 was held in open court, as follows:) 4 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Appropriate notice was 6 published in the paper of the proposed increases. Is there 7 anyone who would like to address the Court on the issue of 8 the proposed salary increases in elected officials' 9 compensation for Fiscal Year 2000/2001? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hope that would 11 include employees and other folks, just anybody, you know, 12 that can -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the public hearing is 14 on the elected officials' compensation. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. But 16 if -- if there is a Kerr County employee that has something 17 to say, I would hope that they would come forth at this time 18 and not -- I don't want to hear any more rumbling out on the 19 streets from any employees, is what I'm saying. They need 20 to come up here and speak now or shut up. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is, once again, a public 22 hearing on the proposed increase in elected officials' 23 compensation for Fiscal Year 2000/2001, pursuant to the duly 24 published notice. Is there anyone who wishes to address the 25 Court on this item? If not, we will conclude the public 52 1 hearing on the elected officials' compensation for Fiscal 2 Year 2000/2001, and we'll return to the regular agenda. 3 (The public hearing was concluded at 10:02 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court 4 meeting was reopened.) 5 - - - - - - - - - - 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: The next item for 7 consideration is Item Number 10, except we've lost Mr. 8 Digges. 9 (Discussion off the record.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we go back and do the 11 bills so he can leave? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I have something else on the 13 agenda anyway. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, you need to be here 15 anyway? 16 MS. NEMEC: Can we do the bills so that 17 people who come to my office early in the morning to pick up 18 their checks -- so that I can release them? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I have -- since 20 Mr. Digges has taken a break, I think that wouldn't be a bad 21 idea. So, let's go back and -- and I tell you what we'll 22 do, Tommy. First, let's take up your specific item, and 23 then we'll do the bills, okay? So, we'll go to Item Number 24 13, consider and discuss issuing purchase order for upgrade 25 to the mainframe. Mr. Tomlinson. 53 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I have two separate purchase 2 agreements. One is for the purchase of -- of IBM RS/6000 3 44-P. This has changed since -- since I requested the 4 agenda item. This -- that amount is -- is for $37,319. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thirty-seven 6 thousand -- again, please? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: 319 dollars. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 319 dollars. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the model is a 10 44 -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: P-270. This is a -- a 12 128-port controller. It has a 40-gigabyte tape drive backup 13 system. It has two 18.2-gigabyte hard drives. It includes 14 documentation that goes with it, has integrated ethernet 15 adapter, UPS system, and CD-ROM drive. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's -- that's 17 better than we -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: When we started. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- than we started 20 with. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. And I think that's a 22 little less money. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's a little less 24 money. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The other piece of equipment? 54 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Then the other part of it is 2 a systems software, and it's for Able -- what's called 3 Ableterm Suite. And it's a site license for Kerr County, 4 and it's -- it's -- I think that's for $10,000. What that 5 allows us -- the County to do is to -- to add PC's to the 6 network in the future without any site license expense at 7 all. So, we have an unlimited amount of site licenses that 8 we can add to this system without any charge. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Have you -- have you located 10 the funds in the current year's budget to make these 11 purchases? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That -- that is a little 13 problem. I've discussed this with our -- with our external 14 auditors, and their -- their opinion is that if -- even if 15 we -- even if we issue this order and we don't receive the 16 invoice until October, then -- then it goes in next year's 17 budget, as far as they're concerned. As far as my opinion, 18 I mean, it really doesn't matter, because it -- the end 19 effect is the same. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: So -- regardless of when -- 22 of when we take it. So -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The State usually 24 takes that same point of view that the external auditors do. 25 But couldn't we get an invoice issued before the end of the 55 1 month? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I don't think we'll 3 even have it until October. I believe it will be -- three 4 weeks -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The invoice or the 6 computer? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Both. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they send the invoice 9 early -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They can type the 11 invoice up pretty quick. I know the State does that a lot; 12 I mean, you know, hustle up the invoice at the end of the 13 year for this very same reason. And even though they 14 haven't taken delivery yet, you can encumber the funds. 15 You -- 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, their position is that 17 the encumbrance goes away if you don't have -- if you don't 18 have the obligation at the end of the year. In other words, 19 so -- so if we don't -- if we don't get the invoice or we 20 don't receive the property, then -- then the encumbrance 21 goes away at 9/30. That's their position. I don't -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can request 23 Software Group to issue -- 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, we could. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- an invoice. 56 1 MR. TOMLINSON: We could do that. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Probably worth looking 3 into, just for your purposes. But you're right, the end 4 result is the same. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. Okay. The third part 6 of it is -- is for the installation, and that's $3,750. 7 There -- less a discount from T.S.G. for $1,069. That's -- 8 that subtotal is $50,000 even. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was that last 10 item, 1,600 and something for what? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: $1,069. It's a discount that 12 they apply. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a discount? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. And the other -- the 15 other purchase agreement is for a 5-year extended 16 maintenance -- up-front maintenance with IBM. And it's 17 for -- and that amount is $9,648. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Keep on spending. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That's much better than -- 20 than paying it as you go. That's a lot -- a lot less than 21 it is if you -- if you pay it annually. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that, on 23 this type of machine, you want that -- okay. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: What -- do you have a grand 25 total for us? About 59-something? 57 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Be $59,648. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Do I have a motion to 3 authorize the purchase orders as requested by the Auditor? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we authorize 8 the County Auditor to issue purchase orders for the 9 mainframe equipment at an aggregate total of $59,648. Any 10 further comments or questions? If not, all in favor, raise 11 your right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Now we'll 16 back up to the approval agenda and take up Item 1.1, which 17 is pay the bills. Anyone have any questions or comments 18 regarding the bills as presented by the Auditor? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the 20 bills. 21 MS. NEMEC: I have a question. I just 22 noticed on here -- may I ask it at this time? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 24 MS. NEMEC: On Page 2, Kerrville Daily Times 25 subscription -- 3-month subscription renewal. Do we pay for 58 1 that? Is there a reason why we pay for the J.P. -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: If it's out of their budget, 3 it's out of their budget. 4 MS. NEMEC: All elected officials subscribe 5 to the Daily Times and get it paid out of their budget? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: If that's what they want 7 to -- 8 MS. NEMEC: I don't think so, Judge. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We wouldn't for a long 10 time. We made Road and Bridge justify them getting the 11 Kiplinger letter. 12 MS. NEMEC: We've discussed this before. 13 MS. BARBEE: That one was actually passed, 14 that they did get it. The Road and Bridge -- 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but they -- they 16 came to us with the rationale as to why they wanted it, and 17 it made sense. 18 MS. NEMEC: Right, there was a special reason 19 for that. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 21 MS. NEMEC: But I pay for my own. It's just 22 a question. I -- I thought we discussed this before, that 23 we couldn't do that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 59 1 MS. PIEPER: May I say something, though? 2 Evidently I was not here when y'all discussed that, and it 3 is coming out of my budget, but we pull out public notices 4 and all that stuff to go in our files. I mean, I don't use 5 that for personal use; we use it for office use. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I think you 7 have probably a unique situation because of the public 8 notices issue, but -- but, you know, I'm thinking -- I 9 cannot think of a reason that the J.P. would need it, other 10 than just, you know, to read it. I mean, you have to have 11 it, 'cause you have to verify the notices, get copies of 12 them and such. 13 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If one J.P. needs it, 15 all J.P.'s would need it. 16 MS. NEMEC: Right. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we pull that one? 18 You disagree? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I do disagree, because the 20 philosophy we've taken though this Court is we give each 21 department money sufficient to run their department, and 22 they decide how they allocate it among the different needs. 23 And it seems to me like we're reaching pretty far down into 24 a department to say if you have the funds and that's how you 25 want to spend your money, it's a legitimate use, then you 60 1 can't spend your money that way. I think -- I think we're 2 reaching pretty far into the -- 3 MS. NEMEC: I don't know, Judge. I think if 4 I -- if I had gone and ordered something and asked the 5 County to pay for it, and if y'all did not feel that the 6 County should pay for it, if you would ask me and if I would 7 have a good explanation as to why I felt I needed it to 8 perform my duties, and then if you felt that that was an 9 appropriate answer, then you would pay it. But, I mean, if 10 it's not to perform the duties in the office, I -- I just 11 don't agree with it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it's probably, 14 perhaps, proper to question it, just like we did in the Road 15 and Bridge Kiplinger letter thing. And they -- and that was 16 more money than that; this was an annual subscription. And 17 I think we could ask the question, just say, "Hey, why do 18 you need it?" And -- 19 MS. NEMEC: He may have a good answer. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He may have a good 21 answer. 22 MS. NEMEC: I don't know. It just caught my 23 eye right now. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it would be 25 fair, if we did Road and Bridge, we do it in this case. 61 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, also -- I mean, 2 this is kind of a general comment. While we do give the -- 3 each elected official's department some flexibility, I mean, 4 there's certain things that we still don't let them spend 5 money on. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Drinking water and things 8 of that nature. We're not supposed to be paying for coffee. 9 I mean, the law says we're not supposed to. I think we're 10 supposed to make sure that these things are not paid for by 11 taxpayers' money. If they don't need it for their job, that 12 goes in the same category, to me. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Some of us need coffee 14 to do our job. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some of us do. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Commissioner, 17 you've made the motion. Does your motion include holding 18 that bill while we get an explanation? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. If we can 20 get an explanation, we're going to ask the -- J.P. 1, is 21 it? -- J.P. 1 to come in and explain why he needs a 22 newspaper. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion made by Commissioner 24 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 25 payment of the bills as recommended by the Auditor, with the 62 1 exception of the newspaper subscription renewal for J.P. 1. 2 Any further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 3 raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Turn to the 8 budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1 relates to the 9 216th Adult Probation Department. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I also have a late bill 11 attached to this to Brian Behrens for $250. This amendment 12 is to transfer $80 from Miscellaneous to Janitorial line 13 item in the 216th Adult Probation Department. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 17 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 18 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 1 and authorize 19 issuance of a late bill -- of a hand check in the amount of 20 $250 to Brian Behrens. Any further questions or comments? 21 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 2 63 1 relates to Justice of the Peace Number 4. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is from Judge 3 Ragsdale to transfer $350 from Software Maintenance to 4 Office Supplies. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 8 second by Commissioner Griffin, to approve Budget Amendment 9 Request Number 2 for J.P. Number 4. Any further questions 10 or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 15 relates to the Courthouse and Related Buildings. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go back. I just -- I 17 noticed an unexpended balance of $1,240 for Software 18 Maintenance. Is there -- I mean -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That -- we budgeted 20 maintenance with the anticipation of a new -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: -- J.P. system. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 3, Courthouse and 25 Related Buildings. 64 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. This is a request 2 from Glenn Holekamp to transfer $1,351.26 from Leasehold 3 Improvements and $487.47 from Repairs and Maintenance to 4 Major Repairs, and I think this is for the courthouse ADA 5 lighting upgrading, for a bill of $3,842. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 11 Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for Courthouse and Related 12 Buildings. Any further comments or questions? If not, all 13 in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4 18 relates to the County jail. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request from -- 20 from the Sheriff to transfer $1,447.66 from the Cooks line 21 item -- salary line item, $281.58 to Overtime, and $1,166.08 22 to Part-Time Salaries. The other part of this is to 23 transfer $1,500 from FICA Expenses and $2,400 from 24 Retirement to the Secretary's line item, for a total of 25 $3,900. 65 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's vice-versa, 2 isn't it? You transfer it out of Secretary's into the -- 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, yeah, I see. You're 4 right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 8 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget 9 Amendment Request Number 4 for the County Jail. Any further 10 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 11 right hand. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 5 16 also relates to the County Jail. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This is a request from 18 the Sheriff to transfer $15,986.72 to Prisoner Meals, 19 $1,093.35 to Prisoner Medical, $2,841.64 to Prisoner 20 Transport, and four thousand -- I mean $460.53 for Trash 21 Service. I think the -- the Court originally agreed to 22 increase the budget for these line items as they -- as they 23 became necessary for the additional prisoners that we -- we 24 have taken in over the year. So, that will be my 25 recommendation. 66 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, excuse me. I have two 5 late bills to go with that. One is to Dr. Terry Parvin for 6 $750 from Prisoner Medical, and one is to Don McClure for 7 $159.96 for Prisoner Transport. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 9 second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court declare an 10 emergency and approve Budget Amendment Number 5, and further 11 authorize issuance of hand checks to Dr. Parvin in the 12 amount of $750 and Don McClure in the amount of $159.96. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question -- Judge, 14 I've got a question. I -- I agree that because we have -- 15 we are filling up the jail, unbudgeted, that we would go 16 into Reserves or go somewhere else to get -- to get the 17 money to pay that, but I don't know that Mr. McClure's 18 transfer of prisoners and -- and some medical expense or Dr. 19 Parvin, I don't know that that should be included in that, 20 should it? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they're all prisoner- 22 related, and we have -- we have run out of money in all of 23 those line items, I think because of the volume of 24 prisoners. That's the way I look at it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I disagree with 67 1 it. I don't think transfer of a prisoner has anything to do 2 with how full your jail is. That's just a transfer, if they 3 go to TDC or come from Chicago to here. That doesn't have 4 anything to do with the amount of people you have in there. 5 That's just the way I see it. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Dr. Parvin's bill would 7 definitely -- definitely have something to do with the 8 amount of people in there. He's having to come more often 9 to see the inmates that are in there. Don McClure's bill 10 is -- maybe at the original time when the budget was set, 11 there wasn't enough at that time to cover. I agree with 12 Commissioner Baldwin, on a lot of Don McClure's, that 13 100-and-something dollars is bringing inmates back from 14 other counties where they were arrested in other counties 15 and had to be brought back to this county. That's where a 16 lot of that comes from, okay, but it's still -- it's still 17 dealing with inmates and prisoners. But that one may not 18 have a -- it's got an indirect effect on the amount of 19 prisoners we're housing, but not a direct effect. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't that one -- would 21 Don McClure come from a different line item? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we -- we've used up 23 every line item we can find in this budget. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion's been made and 25 seconded. Any further comments or questions? If not, all 68 1 in favor, raise your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 6 6 relates to Road and Bridge Administration. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This is a request from 8 Leonard Odom to transfer $50 from Bonds, $88.51 from Photo 9 Expenses, $16.60 from Books, Publications, and Dues, $100 10 from Office Repairs, and $1.07 from Miscellaneous to the 11 Utilities line item. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz 15 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin that we approve Budget 16 Amendment Request Number 6 for the Administration of the 17 Road and Bridge Department. Any further questions or 18 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 7 23 relates to the County Clerk's Office. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This is a request from 25 the County Clerk to transfer $706 from Photocopy Supplies, 69 1 $450 from Employee Training -- transfer that into the Lease 2 Copier for a total of $1,156. Also, to transfer $695 from 3 Part-Time Salaries to Postage. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 8 Budget Amendment Request Number 7 for the County Clerk's 9 Office. Any further questions? If not, all in favor, raise 10 your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 8 relates to 15 Commissioners Court. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. We have a bill for 17 notices of $88.71 that's paid out of the Commissioners Court 18 Notices line item. To pay that, I need to transfer $88.71 19 from Capital Outlay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 24 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve Budget 25 Amendment Request Number 8 for Commissioners Court. Any 70 1 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 2 your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 9 7 relates to County Court at Law. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a current bill for 9 $2,125.67 to pay out of the County -- the Court-Appointed 10 Attorneys out of the County Court at Law budget. What I'm 11 asking is to transfer $1,731.57 from the 198th District 12 Court budget from the Court-Appointed Attorneys line item to 13 the County Court at Law. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 17 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget 18 Amendment Request Number 9 for the County Court at Law. Any 19 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 20 your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 10 relates to the 25 216th and the 198th District Courts. 71 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This request is to 2 transfer $6,556.50 out of the 198th District Court, 3 Court-Appointed Attorneys line item. $5,981.50 goes to the 4 19 -- the 216th Court, Court-Appointed Attorneys line item, 5 $833 goes to Special Trials for the 216th Court. $833 is 6 transferred from Court Transcripts out of the 216th Court, 7 and $575 goes to the Special Court Reporter's line item in 8 the 198th. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, is that 12 special -- is that the -- what special trial is that? Are 13 we still paying off the Bandera deal? 14 MS. BARBEE: Hernandez. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a -- an invoice -- I 16 have a late bill, actually, for -- to Cindy Snider for $833. 17 These cases -- 18 MS. BARBEE: It's the Hernandez case. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: There are several cases. 20 There's one to -- for Trevino. Scheineman. Another one for 21 Trevino. Olivares. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, okay, okay. I 23 get the picture. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 25 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget 72 1 Amendment Request Number 10 for the District Courts and 2 authorize issuance of a hand check in the amount of $833 to 3 Cindy Snider. Any further questions or comments? If not, 4 all in favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 11 9 for the County Clerk again. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This amendment is a 11 request as a result of replacing a printer. There was no 12 capital outlay available in the County Clerk's budget, so 13 I'm asking that we transfer $568 from Commissioners Court 14 Contingency to Capital Outlay in the County Clerk's budget. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 18 second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget 19 Amendment Request Number 11 for the County Clerk's 20 department. Any further questions? If not, all in favor -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question. 22 Printer cratered on you? Or -- 23 MS. PIEPER: Yes. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- you just decided 25 you wanted -- 73 1 MS. PIEPER: Oh, no, it cratered. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cratered, okay. 3 MS. PIEPER: It's the main one that we use. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 6 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 12 11 relates to Jail Maintenance. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The total amount of 13 bills which I have in-hand total $1,806.51. We have the 14 option, again, of increasing the budget for this purpose, or 15 we still do have funds available in the Sheriff's budget. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Radio? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Under the Radio, yes. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move approval of 19 the budget amendment; take the funds from the Radio line 20 item. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 23 Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 24 Budget Amendment Request Number 12 and take the funds from 25 the Radio Communications line item in the Sheriff's 74 1 Department. Any further questions or comments? If not, all 2 in favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 13 7 relates to the County Auditor. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm requesting $100 be 9 transferred from Employee Training to Computer Supplies. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 13 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve 14 Budget Amendment Request Number 13 for the County Auditor. 15 Any further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 16 raise your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 14 21 relates to the County Law Library. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I have a bill from 23 West Group for law books, $1,346.75, that we need to take 24 that from -- from the County Law Library Service Fund. 25 There's no other place to take it. 75 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 4 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 5 Budget Amendment Request Number 14 for the County Law 6 Library, which funds to take from Fund 18, Surplus Reserves. 7 Any further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 8 raise your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 15 13 relates to Commissioners Court. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: I have -- I have two bills 15 for notices totaling $79. I'm requesting a transfer from 16 Capital Outlay in Commissioners Court budget to Notices. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 20 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget 21 Amendment Request Number 15 for Commissioners Court. Any 22 further comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right 23 hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 76 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 16 3 relates to the Ag Barn. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This is a request from 5 Glenn Holekamp to transfer $37.37 from Building and Grounds 6 Maintenance to Equipment Repairs. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve 11 Budget Amendment Request Number 16 for the Ag Barn. Any 12 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 13 your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 17 is 18 for Road and Bridge. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: This is for -- this is 20 Equipment Rental. I have a bill -- a late bill, actually, 21 that I need to approve also to Caterpillar Financial for 22 $1,265. I need to move $35.95 from Lease Equipment to 23 Equipment Rental to pay this. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 77 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 2 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget 3 Amendment Request Number 17 for the Road and Bridge 4 Department, and authorize issuance of a hand check to 5 Caterpillar Finance in the amount of $1,265. Any further 6 questions? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 18 11 relates to J.P. Number 2. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This is a request to 13 transfer $50 from Miscellaneous to the Telephone line item 14 in J.P. 2's budget. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 18 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve 19 Budget Amendment Request Number 18 for J.P. 2. Any further 20 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 21 right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 19 relates 78 1 to the District Courts once again. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. These amendments are 3 to pay phone bills. The first part is $56.24 from 4 Miscellaneous to Telephone in the 216th -- I mean 198th 5 Court, and $56.23 from Miscellaneous to Telephone in the 6 other court. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve 11 Budget Amendment Request Number 19 for the 216th and 198th 12 District Court. Any further questions or comments? If not, 13 all in favor, raise your right hand. 14 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 16 (No response.) 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Glad they woke up at the 18 other end of the table. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, we tied, okay? I 20 kept up with it. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have, apparently, a Number 23 20 from the District Clerk's Office. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: This purchase was not in the 25 original budget, and she -- her request is to -- to add this 79 1 to -- to the list of equipment allowed for her to purchase. 2 She has enough money in her Capital Outlay line item, but 3 it's not a part of the original -- original budget. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean under right 5 now's budget? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 12 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we approve the 13 request from the District Clerk to authorize as a Capital 14 Outlay in the current budget a Unibind machine in the amount 15 of $413. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 16 favor, raise your right hand. 17 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 19 (No response.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. At this 21 time, let's take our mid-morning break and return promptly 22 at 10 minutes till 11:00. 23 (A recess was taken from 10:40 to 10:50 a.m.) 24 - - - - - - - - - - 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll now reconvene this 80 1 regular session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 2 Next item for consideration is Item Number 10, consider and 3 discuss presentation by Mr. Charlie Digges on the effects of 4 and options to the regulation of O.S.S.F. for systems 5 handling more than 5,000 gallons per day. 6 MR. DIGGES: I wanted to come to the Court 7 and visit with you all some, because we've got a couple of 8 developments that have moved forward based on subdividing 9 the land to create it so that no -- no one tract of land was 10 discharging more than 5,000 gallons a day. And, I see that 11 more development could happen that way, and I see that 12 existing camps fall into, you know, this category too, 13 perhaps, and I wanted to discuss also some of the 14 ramifications if an entity has to go to Austin instead of 15 here locally to get their permit, and if we're accomplishing 16 anything more by them doing so. So, in that packet that 17 I've given you all, it gives the section of Chapter 285 of 18 the On-Site Rules that we're going by that relates to the 19 5,000 gallons a day. That's about five pages back and 20 highlighted in your packet there. It just says, "One or 21 more systems of treatment devices and disposal facilities 22 that cumulatively produce more than 5,000 gallons of sewage 23 per day on one piece of property," so that's under the 24 jurisdiction of the on-site program. If it goes over that, 25 then it has to go through Austin and the Municipal Section. 81 1 The next page is a letter from T.N.R.C.C. 2 talking about a mobile home park and how it could be 3 subdivided to allow the same individuals to own adjacent 4 properties, but as long as the complete collection treatment 5 and disposal system of that tract was on that parcel, then 6 you could have phases in -- in development and still stay in 7 compliance. And then here's -- they're asking that a metes 8 and bounds description of that parcel be placed in the -- in 9 the courthouse, and we've accomplished that in the past with 10 developments like Windmill Communities, by doing an 11 affidavit to the public stating the purpose of the -- of 12 attached description, and then placing that description 13 in -- in the Real Property Records. 14 And then, lastly, is a -- is a response from 15 E.P.A. Congress asked E.P.A. what their opinion was of the 16 evolution of the on-site systems in the last 15, 20 years, 17 and could the environment be protected by on-site systems, 18 and so in 1997 they gave a response to Congress in that 19 regard, and they came back and said yes, it's -- a lot has 20 been done in that regard, and that decentralized systems can 21 be designed, installed, and operated to meet all federal- 22 and state-required effluent standards. In other words, you 23 know, they can protect the environment if they're properly 24 designed, installed, and maintained, and they're -- they are 25 appropriate for varied settings. If we have deep soil or if 82 1 you have a lot of rock, like we have here, there are 2 alternative systems that can protect the environment. 3 So, what I'm leading up to with all this, I'm 4 trying to give you all the background information that lets 5 you feel that on-site systems are a viable option to 6 centralized systems, because when we say "centralized," 7 that's when we start going to -- to Austin. The -- the 8 dilemma in our particular area, if we had a -- if we -- say 9 we take a camp who has, over the course of years -- say they 10 have 300 acres, and they've got 10 or 15 buildings. A lot 11 of times they space their buildings out so that those 12 activities don't conflict with other activities happening at 13 other areas, and so you get a campus that's spread out. 14 And, in the rocky terrain that we have, when you try to 15 create a collection system, well, it starts getting pretty 16 expensive. And I think the -- a local camp -- the Boy Scout 17 camp went through this process just recently, and I 18 understood from the time they said go till just completing, 19 you know, it's taken about nine months for the design and 20 permitting and installation process. In other words, it's a 21 rather lengthy ordeal. 22 So, what -- and the other item that I want to 23 bring up is that once you -- you collect it and you treat 24 it, your disposal is still going to be the same, whether you 25 permit through the Municipal Section or through the local 83 1 entity here, you all and U.G.R.A. The reason is, we hardly 2 have any discharges in our county. I think, to my mind, 3 there's just one that would discharge into a creek that 4 ultimately flows into the Guadalupe River, and that's the 5 City of Kerrville treatment plant, and that's the toughest 6 discharge permit in the whole state. The reason being is 7 that they realize that our water bodies are small, but 8 they're fairly pristine and they're used a lot. And, so, in 9 other words, after you collect and treat, you're still going 10 to have a land application-type disposal system. In other 11 words, you're still either going to go subsurface with a -- 12 a typical drain field, or you're going to do low pressure 13 dosing or you're going to do some form of a spray 14 irrigation. 15 And, the dilemma that we find at the 16 Municipal Section is they're set up to take 17 10 million gallons a day, review the collections system, 18 review the treatment plant, and then discharge into a bayou, 19 typical of east Texas. And, so, they don't even have 20 regulations for soil disposal. They don't have -- they 21 don't make a distinction between if you're going to try to 22 get rid of 5,000 gallons a day in a sandy soil or a clay 23 soil, and you're left at that permitter's whim, almost, as, 24 you know, what they will allow. And, so, you can get a 25 drain field that's designed by and reviewed by one permitter 84 1 that would say you need 10,000 square foot of disposal area. 2 Another one, just out of whim, might say you need 3 40,000 square foot. That 40,000 square foot would cost four 4 times as much. Doesn't accomplish anything. They're just 5 not used to that process, and so, as we interact, you know, 6 with a few of these camps, we start describing to them what 7 they're faced with if they go to the 5,000 gallons a day. 8 And, you know, the next conversation we have with them, all 9 of a sudden, they don't have as many people there. 10 You know, in other words, they -- they are so 11 fearful of going over that 5,000 gallons a day and what the 12 implications would be, the implications being we're just 13 going to build a small building and we're going to discharge 14 500 gallons a day, but that's going to put us over the 15 5,000-gallon threshold and so, you know, the -- the new 16 collection and disposal system is going to cost more than 17 their whole new facility that they were going to construct, 18 and they're just -- they back off. Well, sometimes you may 19 not even hear from them again. Well, what's going on -- and 20 I think that by going to Austin, we're not really doing any 21 better job of protecting the environment, but we're closing 22 the door to -- to getting folks in the door into our permit 23 process that we could still take care of them in an 24 appropriate manner. 25 But, I don't want to be out there -- I kind 85 1 of want to get the feel of the Court. I don't want to be 2 out there suggesting that we could -- we could take and -- 3 if you've got three systems over here that -- that are 4 discharging 4,000 gallons a day, and you've got two over 5 here that are discharging, collectively, 2,000 gallons a 6 day, we could split your property, stay in compliance, 7 install you a new system for your new building that would be 8 environmentally sensitive, and stay within the rules. But, 9 I don't want to be doing that if that's not in harmony with 10 what y'all's desire is, and so that's why I put this packet 11 together, so we could talk about this some more and I could 12 get some direction from you all as to how you felt about 13 this. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Responses? Questions? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. I -- there is a 16 reason that the 5,000 gallons and more falls into the 17 Municipal System. And my question is, in your view, is that 18 arbitrary -- was that arbitrarily established, or was that 19 with good reason? If -- if you could always gerrymander 20 boundaries to stay away from having to go with the municipal 21 permit, then why was the 5,000-gallon limit set by the 22 State, by T.N.R.C.C.? 23 MR. DIGGES: I haven't asked the Municipal 24 Section. I did ask the team leader for the On-Site Section, 25 and he kind of -- kind of chuckled, said he just didn't 86 1 know. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 3 MR. DIGGES: Doesn't make any sense to him, 4 but it is the number that divides those two divisions of 5 T.N.R.C.C. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If I read the 7 T.N.R.C.C chart correctly, campers -- youth camps are 8 estimated that each camper produces about 30 gallons a day. 9 With 300 campers, that's 9,000 gallons a day. 10 MR. DIGGES: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it seems to me 12 that trying to load, I don't know, 200 acres, 400 acres at 13 9,000 gallons a day, I'm not so certain that on-site sewage 14 facilities are the best. Now, I'm not convinced otherwise, 15 either. I'm just not convinced. And I think that even if 16 5,000 was arbitrary, that at some number you should -- there 17 should be a centralized collection and treatment center, 18 because otherwise -- maybe it's 15,000. I don't know what 19 the number is. 20 MR. DIGGES: Yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There is some number 22 where a centralized system makes sense, and I don't have any 23 reason to think that 5,000 is not okay, to have that as the 24 break point. 25 MR. DIGGES: Right. 87 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So I'm not inclined to 2 want to give you the sense that we would -- that we would or 3 should gerrymander these metes and bounds just to fit the 4 letter of the law, without perhaps being the intent of the 5 law. So, I'm noncommittal. I think it would be on a 6 case-by-case basis, but certainly not a generalized sense 7 that I would say to any camp owner or any other commercial 8 operation, which is what camps are, that you can come to us 9 with a plan to gerrymander your ownership of lots, and that 10 we therefore would always buy that. I -- I would not be 11 willing to say that. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'll give you 13 my sense, Mr. Digges. It's the same sense that you -- that 14 I gave you when you came before the Court for the -- I think 15 it was Buckhorn R.V. Park. 16 MR. DIGGES: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I felt then that 18 you're circumventing the spirit of the rules then with that 19 particular one, and I voted against it. And, so, my 20 position on it hasn't changed with regard to this type of 21 thing. 5,000 gallons is a tremendous load, and anything 22 above that is an even greater load, and the centralized 23 system, in my view, is a better answer. So, I haven't 24 changed my position. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question is, 88 1 Charlie, you said that you had contacted the -- the 2 leader -- Train Wreck's wastewater team leader, Sherman 3 Hart? 4 MR. DIGGES: He used -- that used to be 5 Sherman. He has since retired and he's in private practice. 6 Now it's Warren Samuelson. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you contacted him, 8 and he chuckled? 9 MR. DIGGES: Well, he realizes that this 10 practice is going on. It's going on statewide. He doesn't 11 want to endorse it, but he doesn't want to say you can't do 12 it, because he understands the -- the limitations of the 13 5,000-gallon-a-day rule and the limitations of the Municipal 14 Section when it comes to reviewing these plans. And, you 15 know, the reason I gave you the -- the 1997 response from 16 E.P.A. to Congress was to demonstrate to you all that at the 17 federal level, they've recognized that, you know, if our 18 goal is to take care of our -- our wastewater and treat it 19 properly, as long as we do a good job of designing, 20 installing, and maintaining these systems, whether it's a 21 centralized system or whether there's five on-site systems, 22 you're -- you're going to get the same results. It is more 23 work to manage more systems and it is easier to manage one, 24 but also then you concentrate your wastewater. You know, 25 you put it all in one area, and that's not necessarily 89 1 desirable. The more you can spread it out each place, take 2 a little bit of the -- the load, itself, that's more 3 advantageous in some regards. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My basic comment is, I 5 mean, I -- I don't know enough about it to give you a really 6 intelligent answer, but generally I think T.N.R.C.C. has the 7 staff, the rules, and, you know, if an individual camp had a 8 specific problem, let them come to us. Other than that, let 9 them work with T.N.R.C.C. I mean, I don't see how we can 10 endorse going contrary to their rules and regulations. 11 MR. DIGGES: Well, you're not. You have a 12 letter that states that they are telling us how we can go 13 ahead and do this. I mean, it's from their organization, 14 and it's stating a methodology that we've used in the past 15 here, and is being used elsewhere in the state. But, at the 16 same time, I realize this is somewhat of a gray area, and 17 that's -- I don't want to -- I don't want to be here with 18 something on the line, a client -- client's future's on the 19 line. I'd rather have a -- be able to come to y'all and -- 20 in a forum like this, where I don't have a client that's 21 behind me fretting about what the answer's going to be. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I live in a 23 subdivision with 12 homes, and the faster we can get to a 24 centralized collection system, the happier this camper's 25 going to be, I can tell you that. 90 1 MR. DIGGES: Well, and I think that's true, 2 Buster. You know, you've got not a real big lot. You got a 3 pretty good-sized lot, but we -- we have that system of 4 yours that we maintain. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want it back? 6 MR. DIGGES: And we don't like it when you're 7 on, like, a half acre or 1-acre sites and you're doing spray 8 irrigation. It would be nice if you have 12 homes on one 9 spray irrigation system, and you did not have to keep up 10 with chlorine, you didn't have to have an aerator and all 11 the paraphernalia that goes with that. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All I'm saying is that 13 camps, mobile home parks and everybody else needs to be in 14 compliance with T.N.R.C.C. If they're, you know, up to the 15 limit and over 5,000 gallons per day, then they've got to 16 follow the rules. You know, if that rule lets them split up 17 their tracts, that's within the rules. I'm not going to 18 come up with a separate rule just because of a certain 19 situation. Let T.N.R.C.C. govern. And, you know, you said 20 their letter says if they want to do it, they can do it. 21 MR. DIGGES: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't stop them from 23 doing that. So, I mean, I really think it's a moot point. 24 MR. DIGGES: Okay. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Charlie, I want to thank you 91 1 for bringing this in. I think this is a useful discussion. 2 I think it's useful for us to see where you think the 3 industry is headed, and useful for us to have an opportunity 4 to talk about this other than under the gun of a -- a client 5 who has got significant dollars invested in a particular 6 solution. From my point of view, and what I think I'm 7 hearing from the Court is that the Court has a bias towards 8 central systems, but will certainly evaluate and take the 9 appropriate action on any system that's brought to us if 10 that's within the boundaries of -- of either our rules or 11 the T.N.R.C.C. rules. 12 MR. DIGGES: Okay. Well, I appreciate the 13 chance to come and talk to y'all about it. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. We appreciate 15 your efforts. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thank you. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next we'll go to Item Number 19 13, consider and discuss result of the Trott Communications 20 Group report, and authorizing -- I'm sorry, 11. My mistake, 21 gentlemen. Eleven. And authorizing going out for RFP's for 22 Sheriff's Office Communications System. Sheriff Hierholzer. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. First off, this 24 has been going on, as -- as the Court knows, since last 25 year, trying to get the Sheriff's Office radio 92 1 communications systems up to date to where we can use it. 2 Some key points on this were really brought to our attention 3 during this last week, is one thing that came out of it. 4 Thank goodness, the Texas Forest Service, when they came in, 5 they brought in a bunch of extra portable radios and things 6 like that, 'cause there was a total of about 10 different 7 frequencies that had to be used up there during that fire 8 just to try and keep communications going amongst everybody. 9 T. Sandlin, who just walked back in, got the 10 lovely chore of being up at the command post trying to keep 11 communications going, and operating and listening to 10 12 different frequencies all during this fire. Different 13 departments had different frequencies they had to use. We 14 had different frequencies. If our guys were out on -- out 15 of their car on a portable radio, they lost communications 16 with everybody, okay? They were just out of luck. And 17 we -- and I think one of the major things that this fire 18 showed us was, one, the importance of communications, and 19 the importance of getting that communications back to a 20 central center to where we could let the public, especially 21 those people that got evacuated out of their homes -- try 22 and keep them updated on what was going on. We had some 23 severe problems in that that I would hope to see corrected. 24 And, Trott has finished their study. They've 25 come up with several different plans for the Sheriff's 93 1 office. The one that I would recommend to this Court to 2 seriously look at and consider in going out for our RFP's 3 would be on Page 3 of that report, you have what is called a 4 simulcast analog. What that will do is allow us to have one 5 frequency that all our Sheriff's Office operates on. These 6 other ones where you have the multi-site analog or the 7 non-simulcast digital, you're about three or four different 8 frequencies having to be used, and it's -- if a deputy moves 9 from one portion of the county to another one, they've got 10 to change radio channels. It's just -- it's fine for 11 somebody like San Antonio, where they have their own totally 12 individual areas that that's all they worry about, but in 13 this county, with the number of personnel we have, 14 everybody's got to be able to communicate with everyone. 15 The only addition I would say to the 16 simulcast analog proposal they have in there is trying to 17 upgrade or redo -- replace our current frequency with -- 18 with one that is a little bit clearer and with -- without 19 quite the interference that we have, like interfering -- 20 interference from Mexico and that. The only thing I would 21 do, and he'd have to -- to respond to this, is try and get 22 us two frequencies. I would like one which is a primary use 23 for the Sheriff's office and all our daily needs and daily 24 functions, and I think after this last week, we saw the need 25 to have one frequency that can go in every vehicle in this 94 1 county as an emergency management frequency, to where we're 2 not trying to rotate through and scan 10 different 3 frequencies, but we can get all these emergency personnel 4 and all the communications at a scene like this on one 5 frequency that doesn't interfere with Kerrville P.D.'s 6 normal one, the fire department's normal one, our normal 7 one, but a designated channel for these emergency 8 situations. And, at this time, I am recommending the -- the 9 analog. 10 I don't know if anyone is here with L.C.R.A. 11 They were going to be here. The only thing that concerned 12 me about L.C.R.A. after this, is it is an 800 system. A lot 13 of these volunteer fire departments coming in from other 14 counties don't have the 800 system, and we wouldn't be able 15 to have communications with those agencies under this type 16 of system. We can even do what the Forestry Service did, 17 depending on the -- the amount of radios we have and the 18 equipment that we get through this system. When they came 19 in, they brought in about 30 portable radios and sat right 20 there at the command post and reprogrammed them right there 21 to try and combine some of these frequencies and issue those 22 radios out to all the personnel fighting this fire, which 23 helped drastically to give us a common communication. But, 24 we saw some real weak points in communications, and I think 25 with the Court already having looked at this, that when we 95 1 do fix our system, it's time to fix it completely and get us 2 the coverage we need with portable radios. Do you have 3 anything? 4 MR. WEIMER: Any questions? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Introduce your guest. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, come on up. He's 7 been before the Court before, with Trott Communications that 8 did the work. 9 MR. WEIMER: I'm George Weimer with Trott 10 Communications. Only thing I have to add is that the 11 simulcast system is, by far, the best solution for all of 12 the problems. This fire did bring up to the County's 13 attention a big problem with the system, and that is 14 portable coverage. The hand-held portable just does not 15 have the efficiency to operate like a mobile radio, and 16 there are a lot of areas in this county that do not have 17 portable coverage. And this system that we're working on 18 now will solve that problem. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With -- with 20 strategically placed towers, or -- 21 MR. WEIMER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- how do you solve 23 that problem? 24 MR. WEIMER: We did -- in our original 25 report, there were some coverage maps that we did showing 96 1 the different areas of the county. We were looking at four, 2 possibly five sites to -- and in this simulcast system, it 3 puts the same channel at all sites, operating 4 simultaneously, so it doesn't matter where a unit's located 5 within the county. You can both hear anyone on that radio 6 channel or the dispatcher, and can talk back from every 7 location in the county. And those maps were done with a -- 8 a 95 percent reliability, which is the public safety 9 nationwide standard. So, it would take -- I'm thinking five 10 sites, possibly four. We have not done the detailed design 11 that's required. We'd probably get the vendor involved in 12 that to verify our coverage predictions, make sure everyone 13 agrees that the sites are strategically located. There are 14 a lot of options, a lot of sites out there for lease, and we 15 would pick the best group of sites in order to optimize that 16 coverage. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One thing we do have on 18 this proposal, or on this study, where he has -- under the 19 simulcast analog, where it's mobile portable equipment, a 20 $107,000 estimate, a lot of that is for the real -- I call 21 it "high dollar equipment," which is above what even the 22 City is using now. What I would like to go to is a lot of 23 the same portables that the City is using, which is 24 upgrading ours just one step above what it is, which is a 25 whole lot cheaper than this $107,000. Plus, the other thing 97 1 we're doing, the six new patrol cars that we got last year 2 already have the upgraded mobile radio in them. The six 3 that is proposed in this budget will already have that 4 upgraded mobile in them, so that already gives us 12 mobile 5 radios that will be taken care of. The $15,000 grant the 6 County received -- Sheriff's Office received a few months 7 ago, because of our drastic situation with portables right 8 now, I plan on spending that $15,000 grant on purchasing up 9 to about 20 more portable radios, which a lot of that will 10 take care of some of this equipment part. 11 Now, one part that could be more expensive in 12 here, which they didn't figure-in in this type of simulcast 13 system, they have to either run T-1 -- they call them T-1 14 lines from site to site to tie all the different sites 15 together, which is an extremely expensive phone line and 16 could run anywhere around $1,000 per line, which there's 17 four, five at least, you know, tying these sites together. 18 And some of the visits I've done with Trott and with 19 communications, they recommend one of the ways to really do 20 that better would be with a microwave site, having a 21 microwave tower that ties all these in together. So, it's a 22 one-time expense, but it could be -- I've been told anywhere 23 from around $30,000. But, if you're going to spend $5,000 a 24 year in rent or lease on these -- 25 MR. WEIMER: A month. 98 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or a month on these 2 lines, that $30,000 could be a whole lot cheaper way to go 3 in the long run to get that taken care of. 4 MR. WEIMER: It's a three- to five-year 5 payout. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: T. -- T. Sandlin, like I 7 said, did a fabulous job up at the command center. I don't 8 know if he has any comments on this type of radio system; I 9 mean, the advantages that it would have for -- for all 10 public safety communications in this county. 11 MR. SANDLIN: I'll be real brief. I think 12 y'all have covered most of the -- T. Sandlin with 911. I 13 think it's been explained, the -- maybe some areas we could 14 expand and improve our communications. In talking about 15 what they just talked about, I am familiar with other 16 agencies around the state, and maybe around the nation, who 17 have set up these simulcast repeaters, and I think in our 18 situation, from a technical aspect, you might want to 19 consider the microwave, because the T-1 would have to pass 20 through multiple telephone companies, and I think the -- the 21 up-front cost of the microwave would be well worth it, and 22 you wouldn't have that continued monthly expense. But, 23 that's just my opinion on that particular instance. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would the -- question. 25 Would the microwave -- this is boy dummy asking questions 99 1 here. Would the microwave help in any way with 2 communicating with other counties or outlying areas? Or -- 3 MR. SANDLIN: As I understand what they're 4 talking about, this microwave would be the control for the 5 towers within our system. If they had the same frequency, 6 the outlying areas, like some of them do on some of our fire 7 channels, they -- it would help, but that would be up to 8 them to -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To have a tower? 10 MR. SANDLIN: Maybe not necessarily a tower, 11 but to program their radio channel to receive these towers, 12 because some of them would be in areas where our immediate 13 outlying counties could access that tower under most 14 conditions, I believe. 15 MR. WEIMER: If the adjacent county would 16 locate their radio equipment at the same site, that 17 microwave could be used to bring that information back into 18 the dispatch center or to redistribute it within the county. 19 As far as the microwave, it would not communicate directly 20 with any adjacent -- adjacent county operation. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, I have a 22 couple -- a question or two. You're recommending simulcast 23 analog; is that correct? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is the second 100 1 line. There are some cost differences between -- in that 2 column, as opposed to the column which says 3 "Recommendation" -- I assume that's the consultant's 4 recommendation, and the largest being the base station 5 equipment. There's a major cost differential. And, second 6 is integration services, another major cost differential. 7 Are we talking about the total budgetary estimate of 430, or 8 are we talking about $250,000? Which are we talking about? 9 MR. WEIMER: 430. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 430. 11 MR. WEIMER: The recommended system in here 12 was not based on simulcast. Where I covered that is in 13 the -- the last paragraph on the budget. That system, the 14 multi-site analog, will only work if you can get a new 15 dedicated channel for each tower site. And, since I did the 16 report, the Sheriff and I have talked about it, and it is 17 not the easiest configuration to use because it does require 18 a different frequency at each site. It will work, but it 19 does require the more expensive radios that have the dual 20 scan capability. So -- and there are -- there are some 21 operational problems in doing that it way, and we talked 22 about it afterwards, and it's probably not the best 23 direction to go, and it still requires telephone lines to 24 all the remote sites, so you don't save -- save a lot there. 25 The other thing that is not included in here 101 1 is the dispatch console for the dispatch center. I know 2 there's some discussions going on between the County and the 3 City about a combined regional dispatch facility. If you 4 buy a console now, there's a possibility it may not be able 5 to incorporate all of the features and functions later on. 6 Moving it is a very serious problem. You have to get a 7 replacement controller to put it in a new location. It's a 8 real problem to move a console, so it's -- I'm suggesting 9 here that you wait until that issue is totally resolved, and 10 if a new center is built, to put the new console at the new 11 center, or if it's not, to upgrade the -- the dispatch 12 console once that -- that issue is resolved. The other 13 thing that you may want to consider, several of the counties 14 that I'm working with are going into these systems under a 15 municipal lease program, and these lease systems are 16 available at competitive rates. And it's a very good 17 approach, something you may want to consider. I did not put 18 any real information in here about the lease, but I do 19 recommend that you look into it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Notwithstanding 21 whether the County would enter into interlocal agreements 22 with other law enforcement agencies for combined dispatch, 23 what will the cost be in addition to the 430 for the 24 console? 25 MR. WEIMER: If you look over in the -- the 102 1 Non-Simulcast Digital, there's a new console for $220,000. 2 That is expensive equipment. That does not necessarily need 3 to be there -- or some of the equipment does not need to be 4 there in this system, so I would stimate somewhere in the 5 $180,000 to $200,000 range. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The console we have at 7 the current time would do. Now, with this other equipment, 8 that $430,000, it would still work. It would take care of 9 our problems. It's just, why replace that console yet or 10 upgrade it until we get the common dispatch or centralized 11 dispatch issue taken care of. There's no reason to go ahead 12 immediately, no need to immediately replace our console we 13 have, and then have to go through the expense of moving it, 14 upgrading it even better to handle the added stuff with the 15 centralized dispatch. I think we can wait on that part and 16 do that all at one time, once we get that situation taken 17 care of. And, hopefully, if we do the -- the common 18 dispatch at that time, we would, I'm anticipating, go out 19 for grants to help cover all of that type of expense related 20 to that common dispatch center. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments of 22 Mr. Weimer, in particular? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the next step? 24 What do we -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Have them prepare the 103 1 RFP or bid package, and going out for the proposals to get 2 the bottom dollar. 3 MR. WEIMER: The second -- second phase of 4 our existing agreement with the County is to develop the 5 RFP. So, as long as -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Will that RFP cover 7 both purchase and lease? 8 MR. WEIMER: It will -- it can. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, we would like it to. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it should. 11 MR. WEIMER: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And include dispatch 13 equipment? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we do want to 17 look at lease versus purchase. We'd like for them to -- 18 MR. WEIMER: Usually in an RFP like this, you 19 ask them to provide lease terms -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 21 MR. WEIMER: -- as an option, and that's not 22 a problem. All of the vendors that supply this type of 23 equipment do have leasing companies. Some of them have 24 their own leasing arm within their corporate structure, so 25 it's very easy to get a lease-purchase as part of the RFP. 104 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing I'd like to 3 see added to what -- everything they did, is see if they can 4 include their -- whatever equipment it would take to do that 5 second frequency, so that the County can go county-wide with 6 an emergency management frequency that all our people would 7 have that's separate from everybody -- all agencies' 8 primary. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That "add alternate" 10 here -- add alternate, however y'all would like to do it. 11 I just see the dire need for that type after what we went 12 through. 13 MR. WEIMER: The reduction in cost that the 14 Sheriff was talking about in the mobile and portable 15 equipment will probably come close to covering that second 16 channel -- station equipment, so I think the number is still 17 in the right ballpark. And, since we're going after a 18 municipal lease on the thing, I think that that's a good 19 approach. Go after the second channel, if you can get it 20 now. Chances of getting it in the future keep getting 21 slimmer every day. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, I believe a 23 motion is probably in order to authorize Trott 24 Communications, in consultation with the Sheriff, to prepare 25 the RFP for the upgrade. 105 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll move it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 4 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 5 authorize Trott Communications, in consultation with the 6 Sheriff's Department, to prepare the necessary RFP's for 7 moving forward with the upgrade of the communications 8 system. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 9 favor, raise your right hand. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. George, 14 thank you for your help. 15 MR. WEIMER: Sure. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We appreciate all that you've 17 done for us. 18 MR. WEIMER: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Sheriff, you might as 21 well stay up a little longer. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What do we got next? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Gasoline. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 12, consider and 25 discuss sending bids out for purchase of fuels for the 106 1 Sheriff's Department. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You have in your packet 3 a kind of an example invitation for bid, an example we 4 acquired from another county, which I think if we send out a 5 bid along these same guidelines, it will cover -- any 6 response we get back will definitely cover the needs of the 7 Sheriff's Office for bids. I would rather stay with a 8 gasoline card-type deal that we can have access to 7 days a 9 week, 24 hours -- or at least, as in here, 16 hours a day. 10 One that will also give us records and keep records, 11 computerized records, of how much each vehicle is using and 12 how much -- what deputies are driving those vehicles and 13 things like that, so we can help on economy and see what 14 our -- how our vehicles are doing. 15 A couple of things that I did not do, 16 something we have to set, is on Page 1 of 9 of that, it 17 said, "Sealed bids shall be received no later than..." I 18 don't know what kind of date y'all need to put on that to 19 cover that. And then, also, we have, on Page 3 -- I've got 20 mine out of order. It may be numbed 2 or 3, where it says 21 Invoice and Statement. I had in there that all invoices and 22 statements must be sent directly to the Kerr County 23 Sheriff's Office, and payment will be made by court process 24 according to established accounts payable schedules. The 25 reason I want those sent directly to us is so we can 107 1 actually see all those and keep tabs on our own vehicles, 2 and then we'll forward them, like any other bill that -- 3 that the Sheriff's office gets, to the Auditor. 4 And then, again, kind of the specifications 5 on the bid is on Page 5 of 9. Service at least 16 hours per 6 day. Service must be available 7 days a week, 365 days a 7 year. Gas cards must be issued to Kerr County Sheriff's 8 Department vehicles. Employee identification number in 9 conjunction with the cards, an odometer entry and 10 miles-per-gallon calculations, computerized statements and 11 usage reports by vehicles on a monthly basis, fixed profit 12 margins, volume discounts, applicable tax fee billing, 13 emergency backup systems, and the fuel sites at Kerrville, 14 which is where we need them mainly. You know, how many are 15 -- if somebody like Town and Country or whoever ends up with 16 it, are we going to have more than one site around town that 17 we can use, or how is that going to work? And then I think 18 there is one other place in here where we have to have the 19 date again on one of the bids; it would have to be submitted 20 by when. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Comments? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A question I had -- 23 and don't we usually have these go to the County Clerk, 24 instead of the Auditor, the bids? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had on there Auditor. 108 1 If we need to change that to Clerk, that's fine. I don't 2 know. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think, by law, they should 4 go to the Clerk. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 6 MS. PIEPER: We need to file them in. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll make that change. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff, what do you think 10 is -- do we want to try to do this on the 25th? How long do 11 you think it will take for you to -- what's an appropriate 12 length of time to send the bids out and get a response back? 13 Do you have any feel for that? 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no idea. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anybody want to try to 16 push it? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I imagine that this 18 would come pretty quick. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think it would. 20 I mean -- I mean, I think the -- probably the local 21 businesses will probably bid on it, but if they're 22 out-of-town businesses, it's probably going to take them 23 longer to put this together. The bigger they are, the 24 longer its going to take them. The smaller they are, the 25 quicker they can do it. 109 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, evidently, this 2 type of bid pack that we acquired is pretty well standard in 3 the way a lot of these vendors deal with -- with law 4 enforcement, how they do it, so it may be something -- just 5 plugging in numbers, and you can get it back fairly quickly. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Try. If we don't, 8 that's not a -- you know, if that's not really workable, 9 there's nothing that says we would have to start this 10 1 October. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First meeting in October? 12 I mean, I'd just hate to rush it too much and -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Keep in mind, though, that 15 the first meeting in October is the 15th. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but, I mean, the 17 other side is to -- to get everything back here, basically, 18 in 10 days -- or I guess it's more like 7, come in that 19 morning. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the question I ask. 21 It's either two weeks from today, or it's the 15th of 22 October. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have money in the 24 budget right now that we'd start; I'd say go ahead and give 25 them the extra time, wait till October 15th. We may get 110 1 some better bids in by giving them the time to really dig it 2 out, instead of rushing them. A suggestion on my part. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why the long distance? 4 Only people I can think of are Town and Country, and that's 5 San Angelo. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have Maxey Energy, 7 you have gas card -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uvalde? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Uvalde or gas card. You 10 know, I -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could do them with 12 pigeons in two weeks. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Whatever y'all wish. 14 We'll get them out immediately and see what happens. If you 15 want to put it back on the agenda to go ahead and open them 16 and look at them -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you want to 18 do? 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can put -- I don't 20 need it back on the agenda. I think either date. Doesn't 21 make a difference to me, as long as we give them enough time 22 to do it. That's my concern. If we get the information a 23 little -- two or three days before we actually get it out, I 24 mean, being realistic, and then -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Try and get the system 111 1 set up. My point is that we're going to probably have to 2 buy gasoline under the old system for a while, anyway. So, 3 unless there's some particular rush to get this done, we 4 might as well allow a comfortable time to see if we can get 5 more bids back, and perhaps -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Of course, hopefully, 7 theoretically, we'll get a price break compared to what we 8 pay now. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: That is the incentive to get 11 the program in place at the earliest possible opportunity. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're talking two 13 weeks difference, is my point. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're talking, really, a 15 month difference. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once we award the bids, 17 it will take a month, two weeks to get the cards done. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's the pleasure of the 19 Court? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: October 15th. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Why don't we have the 22 bids -- I would suggest we have the bids in the Friday 23 before. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Five o'clock on -- it would 112 1 be the 12th. Sealed bids are due not later than 5 o'clock 2 on October 12th, and we'll open the bids on October 15th. 3 Bids will be opened; not necessarily awarded, but opened on 4 the 15th. Is that a holiday? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: October 15th is a 6 Sunday. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 16th is -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 16th is a holiday, 10 12th is not. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: 16th is a holiday, so it will 12 be the 17th. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we take Columbus 14 Day off? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, we do. 16 MS. BARBEE: Yes. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. So, the -- the 19 bids would be due not later than 5 o'clock p.m. on October 20 13th, and they would be opened, accepted on the meeting on 21 the 17th; is that correct? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: No? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why not? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Columbus Day holiday's the 113 1 9th. Okay. All right, we're -- I'm off. Everybody retool 2 here, let the Judge collect himself. Our meeting will be on 3 the 10th of October, so the bids are due 5 o'clock p.m. on 4 the 6th of October, to be opened and possibly -- and 5 accepted -- possibly accepted on the 10th of October. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: At 10 o'clock? So 7 moved. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 11 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that we authorize 12 the Sheriff to issue RFP's for gasoline purchase, with 13 sealed bids to be due at the County Clerk's office not later 14 than 5 o'clock p.m. on October the 6th, with the bids to be 15 opened, accepted, and possibly awarded at 10 o'clock p.m. on 16 October the 10th. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: A.m. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: A.m. 10 o'clock a.m. on 19 October the 10th. Any further questions or comments? If 20 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Let's do the 114 1 remainder of the Sheriff's while we've got him standing up. 2 Number 19, consider and discuss bids for vehicle 3 maintenance. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That one you don't have 5 a bid pack in there, 'cause I don't know exactly how to 6 develop it. I can't find any that are used by other 7 agencies. Most of them either don't have the requirement to 8 go out for bids, or they have their own maintenance yards. 9 I need some guidance. I know I visited a little bit with 10 Glenn, and his, of course, is mainly maintenance on the jail 11 and things like that. I don't know how we do it on 12 vehicles. I just -- I need some guidance on this. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we do it similar 14 to what Glenn did, and go bid an hourly rate. I mean, most 15 mechanics, you know, work on a number of different things. 16 I mean, if -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Can we go ahead, then -- 18 if Glenn's got a packet that he uses, go ahead and do the 19 same thing with the same time requirements and that on 20 vehicle maintenance that y'all had? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We haven't used Glenn's 22 yet. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'm still waiting on them to 24 come back. Travis has told me that's he's going to get 25 right on it. 115 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would recommend you get 2 with the County Attorney, and based on Glenn's -- and Travis 3 back there, come up with a similar format. I think the oil 4 change you may want to do as a separate item. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, oil change right 6 now -- in the budget line as it is now, I think gasoline and 7 oil are in the same. Oil could just as easily be separated 8 out of that, because we do use these quick places where -- 9 around town, which serve us very well. Our yearly expense 10 is about $7,000, so it's not in the bid requirement part, 11 and it pretty well gets them in there any time we need to 12 get them serviced. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also makes it easier to 14 do this bid package. I think every -- I mean, every 15 mechanic that you're going to want to use, anyway, can do 16 multiple types of work. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think you need to get the 18 package prepared and bring it back let us look at it. But I 19 think along the lines of what Glenn is working on, is you 20 have how much an hour, how much mark-up on parts, a lot of 21 what you put in your gasoline -- no sales tax, and then bid 22 an emergency component. It may be that we never need it, 23 particularly with a fleet of newer cars, but bid it anyway. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Weekends or after hours, what 116 1 would your rate be? Just so we have that in there, a copy 2 if we need it. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are you going to want to 4 have in there towing expenses? That's what we run across -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think so. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- fairly regularly, 7 having them towed, 'cause a lot of these mechanics don't 8 have, you know, wreckers to tow them in or things like that, 9 but it is something we need. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't be a member of 11 Triple-A? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, on your new ones, 13 we have -- we have a little bit of warranty in there that 14 does pay for the towing, but once they're already out of the 15 warranty, it won't. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, it should have 17 it. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, bring that back to us at 20 the meeting in -- well, whenever you're ready, but the 21 sooner the better, obviously. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll do that. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: And, the last item for the 24 Sheriff is consider and discuss out-of-county housing rate. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. I don't see Tommy 117 1 around. Tommy and I visited over this during the budget 2 process, and what we have come up with, I think that would 3 be a fair rate, not -- not overindulging the County. It 4 will come out evenly or a little bit ahead on this, is 5 upping that rate from $35 a dy to $37 a day. I don't want 6 to put a crisis on these smaller agencies around us. I 7 want, you know, for us to be helpful to those agencies, but 8 I don't want to put a crisis on our county, either, on not 9 being able to bring in -- so far this year, a month ago when 10 I looked, the County had billed out in excess of $350,000 11 since last October, so we're probably going to be billing 12 out close to $400,000 through this physical year that we 13 had. In figuring up our prisoner meals, we're spending at 14 this time about $1.40 to $1.45 a day -- or $1.45 per meal on 15 inmate meals, which is not an extravagant amount, I don't 16 believe, when you're talking doing lunch meals and dinner 17 meals. But, to really kind of break even and help the 18 County out a little bit in the bond issue, we need to go up 19 to at least $37 a day. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem 21 with that or whatever it takes, but we need to make sure, 22 and really may need to review that at the end of this budget 23 as to exactly what it is costing, because if we're not 24 actually making money by housing prisoners, I'd be in favor 25 of reducing the staff out there and going back down. I 118 1 don't see any reason for us to keep that jail staffed just 2 to break even, if we're not paying off that bond issue. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wish Tommy was back in 4 here; he could tell you. He has it figured as to the bond 5 debt, as to utilities, as to meals, as to employee salary 6 and all that. And I think it came out to about $33 to $34 a 7 day, is about what it was costing. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Including the bond debt? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. The bond debt's 11 included? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, the bond debt's 13 included in that, so that $37 a day is putting us up just a 14 little bit above that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's good. I 16 have no problem with that. I just want to make sure we're 17 not -- 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know how 19 accurately he's figured in, like, the jail maintenance, you 20 know, since in a number of air-conditioners, we're having 21 problems, water lines, and that's just an added expense. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the bond debt's what 23 I'm really concerned about. If we're helping service that 24 debt, that's on account of having the jail -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's my understanding, 119 1 was that bond debt's in there. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you think an increase will 3 have an adverse effect on the population in the census? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As long as we keep it to 5 a minimum, or increase -- I think we have to increase some 6 to make sure we're -- I don't want to increase so much to 7 where we have a problem. I know Llano, who we're housing 8 quite a bit for, has already broke ground on a new facility. 9 Gillespie County is considering doing a bond deal or 10 whatever on a new facility for them. Those I think are 11 going to come either way, irregardless. Tommy and I talked 12 a lot about Bandera County, because he does a lot of their 13 auditor work and that, what they could do. And I think, you 14 know, to keep it fair to Kerr County and what we're housing, 15 that we have to go to this amount. I don't want to keep it 16 so low that we can't -- I know when we housed -- before we 17 built our facility, when we were housing out-of-county over 18 at Bell and that, we were paying $40 to $45 a day, and 19 that's been seven years ago. So, I don't think $37 a day 20 is -- is outrageous or ridiculous at this time, and I think 21 it's doing a good service to the other counties, and I think 22 it's doing a good service to us. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be very 24 difficult for any of the neighboring counties to be able to 25 build a facility and house them for $37 a day. I mean -- 120 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that -- I mean, I have 3 no problem. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We need a motion? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we set the -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Effective when? That 7 is the question. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Effective date of 9 October 1st. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Set the out-of-county 11 rate for housing prisoners at the jail at $37 per day. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 15 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we set the per-day 16 cost of housing out-of-county prisoners at the Kerr County 17 Jail at $37 per day, effective October 1st, Year 2000. Any 18 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 19 your right hand. 20 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 22 (No response.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 24 Sheriff. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 121 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We do have some citizens 3 here. Let's go to Item Number 16, which is consider and 4 discuss no-wake zone for Ingram Lake, Flat Rock Lake, and 5 Center Point lake. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, this is a 7 carry-over item from October 14 and October 28 in which we 8 tried to address some of the questions and concerns with 9 respect to the establishment of a no-wake zone on our three 10 lakes. We asked the County Attorney's office last time to 11 give us an appropriate court order, and I believe all 12 Commissioners had a copy of that put in our boxes here just 13 before court today. And so, Travis, do I understand 14 correctly that you believe that this does require a public 15 hearing? 16 MR. LUCAS: Yes. Like last time we spoke -- 17 it might have been last Commissioners Court hearing where we 18 took this up -- I indicated that I could not find any 19 statutory or case law that required a public hearing. But, 20 in my discussion with former Assistant County Attorney Ilse 21 Bailey and some other people, we thought we might need to 22 err on the side of having that public hearing. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, with 24 that thought in mind, then, I would move the draft order, as 25 prepared by the County Attorney, establishing a no-wake zone 122 1 for Ingram Lake, Flat Rock Lake, and Center Point Lake, and 2 set a public hearing for 9/28 at 10 a.m. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: 9/28 or 9/25? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, 9/25. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thursday. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's make it 9/25 at 7 10 a.m. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've got a problem with 9 dates and calendars. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, we need a 11 calendar in here. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We do need a 13 calendar. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 15 Do we have a second? Do we have a second on that motion? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second it. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, we need to 19 perhaps address at the same time, maybe it needs to be in 20 the motion that we would -- we will also consider 21 superseding our previous County order -- court order on Lake 22 Ingram. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: That should be part of the 24 draft order. And I haven't seen the draft order, so I don't 25 know whether it specifically rescinds -- 123 1 MR. LUCAS: No, I have not, but I will. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. So, as long 3 as -- this is a draft, so that's fine. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All we're doing today 5 is setting the date for public hearing. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll give us a 7 final draft, then, for the public hearing? 8 MR. LUCAS: You bet. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which takes care of 10 Commissioner Griffin's -- 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, before we have a public 12 hearing, we have to put something on file with the -- so the 13 public can look at it, so I think it's appropriate that the 14 motion that has been presented will -- will state that the 15 draft order which is going to be revised will include a 16 clause which supersedes or cancels any previous court orders 17 regarding -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- the same subject. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All right. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the reason for 22 that is, I mean, you're going to remove one court order and 23 put the same court order back in. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. No, because the 25 current court order only applies to Lake Ingram, and so that 124 1 we don't have two orders that may be variant between the two 2 that would apply to Lake Ingram, we need to have just one 3 that's in effect, and it would be this new one rather than 4 the old one. It will say the same thing, but -- 5 MR. LUCAS: Exactly. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fine. I would just 7 think remove Lake Ingram from this one, but whatever. Let's 8 go. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 10 Williams, second by -- I believe Commissioner Baldwin? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: That the Court approve the 13 draft order for no-wake zones for Ingram Lake, Flat Rock 14 Lake, and Center Point Lake, as amended, to include the 15 proviso that supersedes any previous court orders regarding 16 the same topic on either of those lakes, and further set a 17 public hearing on the approved proposed order for 18 September 25th, Year 2000, at 10 o'clock a.m. Any further 19 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 20 right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. We're 25 gaining on 12 o'clock. Do you want to push through, or do 125 1 you want to break? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's go through; 3 shouldn't take long. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Let's go back to 5 Item -- let's take care of our County Engineer, take up Item 6 Number 15, consider and discuss constructing the first of 7 two parking areas and resurfacing the interior roadway of 8 the Courthouse square. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last time, again, we 10 talked about this, it had been talked about in the budget, 11 and we thought we would question whether or not it would be 12 possible to do it at the tail end of this budget year. I 13 was on last time, and I asked Mr. Odom and Mr. Franklin if 14 they would prepare some numbers for us today so we'd have a 15 better idea what the cost would be. Do we have any of those 16 numbers, Mr. Franklin? 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Leonard's been working on 18 those, and I think he's requested some bids from a couple 19 contractors to actually do the work, and they have not come 20 in at this time. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: He's been up here several 23 times showing contractors what the scope of the work has 24 been. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any idea when they 126 1 might be forthcoming? 2 MR. JOHNSTON: No, I don't. This is kind of 3 secondhand. Leonard's been doing this, but I don't know 4 what the time frame is. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. No action we 6 can take today. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you, Franklin. 8 Next item is Item Number 14, consider and discuss approving 9 Administrative Services Agreement for Indigent Health Care 10 Claims and authorize County Judge to sign same. This is 11 a -- basically, it's the same contract we currently have now 12 in time to renew. We can renew for up to two years, which 13 locks in the current rate if we so desire. What's the 14 pleasure of the Court? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we approve. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: For a two-year term? 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 20 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 21 approve the Administrative Services Agreement for Indigent 22 Health Care Claims for a two-year renewal, and authorize 23 County Judge to sign same. Any further questions or 24 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 127 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 4 Item Number 17, consider and discuss road signage. 5 Commissioner Letz. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 7 after a conversation I had with Bill Tucker with the Highway 8 Department. This all came out of a lady that wants a road 9 sign on Highway 27, private road, and our 911 rules and our 10 Subdivision Rules currently call for private road signs to 11 be red. Well, the Highway Department, through Bill Tucker 12 in the San Antonio District Office, says that we are not 13 allowed to put -- or they will not allow us to put red road 14 signs on State Highway right-of-ways, which presents 15 trouble. It's also interesting, 'cause I understand that 16 the Austin office, which handles Gillespie County, lets them 17 put red signs on roads. But -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And Blanco County. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Blanco County. But 20 Bill Tucker -- and I don't have it in writing, but he told 21 me, and I know he's told Road and Bridge as well. 22 MR. JOHNSTON: I don't have the letter with 23 me. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I asked him to give y'all 25 a letter. His solution was to -- he wanted us to put green 128 1 signs up with red tape at the top or bottom, which we did at 2 one point a long time ago. A few of those are left around 3 the county. But, I mean, we need to decide what to do, 4 because if we're going to -- we either have to change our 5 911 rules and our Subdivision Rules to come up with a 6 different color, put the -- or put the red tape on it, or go 7 back to Bill Tucker and tell him that we don't like that 8 answer and we want to use red because of the counties in the 9 area. I asked him about other colors we could use. Blue is 10 municipal, brown is parks and that type of thing, green 11 is -- we're already using that. And I forgot if there's any 12 other colors around. I think purple or pink or something, 13 but any of the standard -- 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lime green out there. 15 Isn't there a lime green? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a 17 recommendation. I mean, it makes sense to me; let's get in 18 compliance with the State law book, and we'll use green with 19 a red stripe. And we'll just tell Mr. Tucker that we're not 20 going to go out and change any red signs that are out there 21 now, but as those come up for maintenance or replacement or 22 whatever, that we can do that. We'll do that over time. 23 And -- but, from this point forward, we can deal with the 24 green with a red stripe, if that's what the State wants. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: Since there's a discrepancy 129 1 between the different districts, can we ask for a ruling 2 from TexDOT in Austin, whoever makes the final decision, to 3 make it a final decision? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my suggestion, 5 is that we -- that we ask Representative Hilderbran to 6 contact the Executive Director of TexDOT and see if we can 7 expedite this thing and he can get an answer basically 8 overnight and find out where the State -- 9 MR. JOHNSTON: Should be a statewide standard 10 anyway, as opposed to district or county. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Obviously, it's not a 12 statewide standard at this point. That's true. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, now, the -- 14 actually, they -- from district to district, they do have 15 leeway on some things, some speed limits and things like 16 that. Pretty interesting. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think your 18 recommendation -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the red stands 20 out and it's easy to tell. The one I saw with the red 21 stripe, I didn't like, because it was kind of hard to see 22 it. I guess if you're looking for a street sign, it doesn't 23 make much difference if it's public or private. 24 MR. JOHNSTON: The tape comes off, and then 25 it's ambiguous. 130 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we have we accepted the 2 offer of Commissioner Baldwin to contract Representative 3 Hilderbran and -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we did. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- make that request? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can't wait. May I do 7 it by telephone? I don't want to write a bunch of letters. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: You may do it however you 9 want to. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. 11 I'll get us an answer. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The sooner we can get it 13 resolved, because we have -- I know one lady in my precinct 14 who calls me every week because TexDOT won't let her put a 15 street sign on the road. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which they won't do. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll get her your phone 18 number. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Last item on the regular 21 agenda is to consider and discuss the transfer of the 22 underutilized Commissioners Court computer to the County 23 Collections Department. I think it's obvious that we have a 24 computer that's not being effectively utilized. The 25 Collections Department is in need of a computer. An 131 1 effective use of County property, in my opinion. Anyone 2 have any questions or comments regarding this transfer of 3 equipment? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only comment I would 5 make, Judge, is that while I would not interfere with the 6 proposal to transfer the computer to the Collections 7 Department so they can get about their business, the 8 Commissioner of Precinct 2 still wants a computer and will 9 come back at a date -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I -- question. I 11 thought we had earmarked that computer for you. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But I can probably do 13 with a new one. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: The computer that is out here 16 is not what -- what Commissioner Williams and we have all 17 talked about needing, which is a laptop with the capability 18 of going away from the office and being used to put on shows 19 and presentations and other things like that. So, in 20 discussing with Commissioner Williams, we recognize the fact 21 that -- that we still are -- are looking to satisfy the need 22 for the right computer equipment for Commissioners Court. 23 (Discussion off the record.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Do we have a motion to 25 transfer the excess Commissioners Court computer to the 132 1 Collections Department? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I thought we did. So 3 moved. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 6 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 7 authorize transfer of the excess Commissioners Court 8 computer to the Kerr County Collections Department. Any 9 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 10 right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Couple of more items. We 15 need to approve the minutes. At this time, I'd entertain a 16 motion to waive reading and approve the minutes of the 17 special session held on August 2nd, the regular session held 18 on August 14th, the special session held on August 16th, the 19 special session held on August 28th, and the special session 20 held on August 30th. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 24 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we waive reading of 25 the minutes for those listed minutes and approve same. Any 133 1 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 2 right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Additionally, at this time I 7 would entertain a motion to approve and accept the monthly 8 reports, as presented. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved -- second. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 12 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we approve and 13 accept the monthly reports, as presented. Any questions or 14 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 15 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 17 (No response.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. If there's 19 no other business to come before us, we stand adjourned. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 (Meeting adjourned at 12:02 p.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 24 25 134 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 14th day of September, 8 2000. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25