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KERR COONTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Special Session
Monday, January 22, '001
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
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PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge
H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct.
JONATHAN LE'TZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I		I N D E X	
		January 22, 2001	PAGE
2			
	---	Commissioners' Comments	3
3			
	1.1	Pay Bills ~fi`a+~Q~~
~ Z~~3,	
4	1 . 2	Budget Amendments X~~(0~/z~	19
	1.3	Late Bills ti ,~~83~-~ 2~83~	15
5	2.4	Read and Approve Minutes ~ 2~~3'~	19
	1.5	Read and Accept Monthly Reports -~ 2C~`(32iC	2p
5
7	Z.l lnterlocal Agreement with City ~f Kerrville to
	construct T-hangars at municipal airport; f~ 210~~
R	process for transferring budgeted funds 20
	2.2 P.esolution approving grant application for
9	funding 216th Narcotics Task F~r~e tl 2~~ 27
	2.3 Presentation by Charlie Digges/Lane Wolters
10	on matters pertaining to O.S.S.F. i'i5~i.~SSS"t^N 29
	2.4 Grantinq variance to O.S.S.F. licensing
11	requirements to Eddie & Joyce Sowell »i5mt~s5roN57
	2.5 Restoration of individual properties by
12	Wiedenfeld Water Works due to installation ~iSC`'`'STZ'Y~
	of new water pipelines 75
13	2,6 Reduction of fee for Rabies Vaccination Drive PS st2
	2.10 Change 9/1 Custodian to 12%1 Utility Maintenance
14	for Sheriff's Department and Jail #2(~Q142- 86
	2.11 Authorize Sheriff to organize committee to
15	prepare long-range master plan Lur KCSO~2/c~3 £39
	~'.12 Authorize Sheriff to apply for Vest Partnership
16	Grant to purchase bul]etproof vests ttZ~o~N4 93
	2.13 Authorize Sheriff to apply for AACOG grant.tt2~S45 55
17	2,14 Authorize Sheriff to apply for Hal and Charlie
	Peterson Foundation grant ~ 2(rg4(c 98
18	2.17 Approve order establishing Teen Curfew, set
	public hearing on same f~ 2~ ~ ~ 105
19	2.15 Proposed revisions reflected in Change Order 7 148 ~2
	2.16 Rehabilitating historic windows n~7C'uSS.ton9 155
20	2.7 Appoint replacement to AACOG Landfill Committee 164 ~-
	2.8 Accept 25 park benches from Allied Advertising
21	in San Antonio for use in county parks ~ ~°~~165
	2.9 Approval of Cooperative Agreement between Kerr
22	County and Office of Attorney General ~ ~~~~165
	2.18 Amendment to County Attorney's budget to ~z~8c~ 2
23	increase Insurance Liability by $1,250 158
29 --- Adjourned 172
--- Reporter's certificate 172
25
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On Monday, January 22, 2001, at 9 o'clock a.m., a special'
session of the Kerr County commissioners Court was held in
the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Ter,as, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
DODGE HENNEKE: Good morning. It's 9 o'clock
on Monday morning, January 22nd. We will call to order this
special meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court.
Commissioner Williams, I believe you have the honors this
morning.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really? Please rise.
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
DODGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any
citizen wishing to address trie Court on an item not listed
on the regular agenda may do so. Is there anyone who would
like to address the Court on an item not listed on trio
regular agenda? Once again, if there's any citizen who
wishes to address the Court on an item not listed on the
regular agenda, they may do so at this time. Seeing none,
let's move to the Commissioners' comments. Let's staxL with
Commissioner Williams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any
comments this morning, Judge. Happy good morning Monday.
That's it.
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DODGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd just like to thank
all of the volunteers at the Hill Country Junior District
Livestock Show Association and actual County employees that
spent many hours making another great district livestock
show. And, I think we had 2,550 entries, somewhere around
there. Good show.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much did they
raise at the auction?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were off from last
year at one point during the -- about pLObably two-thirds of
the way through. Not substantially. Like, $5,000 or
$6,000, what I was told. 1 have not heard a final number.
There was just -- a couple of the people that have bought a
lot recently were not present, but we had -- luckily, to
take their place, it seemed like more businesses in the
community than usual were spending more money than they
usually do, so it probably balanced out about the same.
But, it was a -- it was a good sale.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I certainly echo the
thoughts about the great show, and it was very
well-attended. Gosh, it's just great to see the kids out
there every time you do that. It's inspiring. tdo other
comments, Judge.
DODGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Baldwin?
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CUMMISSI~.>NER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. First of
a11, I'd like to introduce our new Commissioners Courr
clerk, Linda Kneese. She's new in Lk,e County Clerk's Officc
and new to the Commissioners Court. We want to welcome you,
Linda, to our --
MS. KNEESE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We prefer your first
day of court includes buying lunch for the Commissioners
Court.
(Laughter.)
MS. KNEESE: I do work for the County.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then doughnuts,
doughnuts at every meeting from this point on, part of the
deal. And, gentlemen, as you know, I went last week to
Beaumont, Texas to -- for a planniuy u,eeting for cur annual
conference of the South Texas Judges' and Commissioners'
Association. Normally, on those planning meetings for that
conference, we -- the board usually takes three trips into
the community. It takes three trips into the community
to -- to plan the whole conference. We went down there
and -- ancJ just ran nonstop for two full days and completed
the entire thing in two full days. So, it was kind of a
whirlwind. I've got crawfish running ouL my ears, sick of
seafood at this moment, but tomorrow it will be over and
I'll be ready for some more.
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But, out of that -- out of that group, I'm
happy to announce -- out of that meeting, I'm happy to
announce that two ox our esteemed colleagues here at this
table will be part of the program down there. Commissioner
Letz will be a part of a panel -- a water panel with
T.N.R.C.C. and the Water Development Board, and Commissioner
Letz will be a 3-man -- part of a 3-man panel to talk about
the water issues of cur great state. And, Larry down on the
other end of the table will talk about septic tanks. And,
Larry, 1 appreciate that very -- very much. Maybe you can
take the heat off of some of the rest of us. But -- but,
he -- he will -- he has one hour down there to talk about
the O.S.S.F. program in the state, so I couldn't think of a
better thing for him, That's just -- I know that everycne
at this table is very excited about that, and we'll be there
to -- be there to support you. That's all the comments I
have.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When -- when is the
conference? What are the dates?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- the 19th of
July.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: June? July?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: July.
MS. SOVIL: 9th.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry, the 9th of
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July. The -- at thaY_ time of the year, I understand that
the mosquitoes' wingspread doesn't get over 1~ inches.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three days, the 9th to
the 1<th, about?
COla1MISSIUNER. BALDWIN: Yeah, about.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ukay. Thank you.
DODGE HENNEKE: I also want to give my thanks
to everybody who helped out with the Junior District
Livestock Shoca. It's a wonderful occasion, something that
the whole community can be proud of. I had the pleasure of
judging the heifer and steer competition, both the County
show Thursday morning and District show Friday morning, and
enjoyed watching the young people work with their animals,
particularly the little ones who have to hold the halter up
like this in order to get their -- their animal to raise its
head because they're substantially smaller than the animal
they're showing. I particularly was struck by *_he dichotomy
on Thursday when I was out there in the morning watching our
local people show their animals in the County show, and how
dedicated they were and how involved they were and how busy
they were, and then Thursday afternoon, I had the
responsibility of coming back and having juvenile court, and
sentenced one young man for indecency with a child. I sent
two young people to the Texas Youth Commission. So, I was
particularly struck by the difference between the Yids I saw
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Thursday morning and Ltie kids I saw Thursday afternuon. If
we can find a way to get more of the kids Thursday afternoon
involved in the activities of Thursday morning, we might not
have to have a Thursday afternoon session. And, it's a
source of sadness to me that we have to have a Thursday
afternoon session, but it's a source of great pride that we
have the ability to do what we did Thursday morning, Friday
morning, and Saturday afternoon.
I also want to comment on the inaugural over
the weekend. I think we can all be proud of the fact that
we have a new president, a new president from Texas. New
president who knows where Kerrville ~s, and one that I think
we can call up~ii with our concerns, as we can any of our
eler_ted officials. It was a glorious weekend for Texas and
for the nation, and I look forward to President -- it's
going to take me a long time to get over saying Governor
Bush -- President Bush moving forward with his agenda for
the benefit of all of us. As 1 was reflecting on that over
the weekend, I was struck by the fact that, you know,
President Bush is a man who is not defined by his office,
but has offered himself for office in order to test his
ideas for the benefit of all of us in the marketplace of
ideas in Congress. The man, in my estimation, would be just
as happy still being president of the Texas Rangers or
certainly Governor of Texas, as he is president, but he felt
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the call to duty and he responded to the duty, and I think
we'll all be very pleased and gratified by the results. So,
our prayers and thoughts go with him for the next,
hopefully, eight years.
With that cumment, let's turn to the business
at hand. We have some bills to pay, Mr. Auditor. Anybody
have any questions or comments regarding the bills?
COMMISSIONER. WILLIAMS: Move we pay the
bills.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN; I have a comment.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Lc'tz, that we pay the
bills as recommended. Commissioner Baldwin, you have a
question?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir -- I don't
have a question about these particular bills, but I have a
comment to make. I guess in the next cycle of bills -- we
pay approximately, I think, $6S0 a month to the City of
Kerrville for the First Responder Coordinator, and I've
alw~3ys understo~~d Chat that -- that money goes to his salary
because it's outside his city employment program, and it's
for the First Responder program that covers the county.
And, as you know, we've stnzggled in the last couple of
years with t,iis position, and we filled it several months
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ago, and it's r.~~w c,pen again. There is no one in that
position, and I just -- but we continue sending that money
over there, even though there is not anyone in that position
that we pay.
And, I know that we've asked Tommy to phone
and talk with the City, and he has done that before, and
they give kiim some kind of reason. 1 don'Y_ recall what that
reason is, but I -- I tend to disagree with whatever the
reason was, because it's -- the reason we have that money
set up is to pay the salary to serve us, and I just have a
hard time fur us to send money anywhere without getting
something in return. And, actually, I think if we dug long
and hard enough in the law, that we would find that we would
need to receive something in return, whether it be goods or
services. Ai,d, so, I just wanted to alert y'a11 that, in
the next cycle of bills, this $680 is going to show up, and
if there is noL a person over There that's our employee
doing that job, I -- I'm going to throw a fit hissy about
paying tliaL. So, I just wanted to alert you to it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Fair enough. Anyone else
have any questions or comments'? Tommy, cn Page 1 under
Nondepartmental, we have a r_harge, $58.12 for clear report
covers. What is that for, under Nondepartmental?
MR. TOMLINSON: It's for the monthly reports
that niy office sen~_ls out.
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JUDGE HENNEKE:	Okay.	A11 right.	
MR. TOMLINSON:	Those	binders, is	what they
are.
JUDGE HENNEKE: That comes out of
Nondepartmental?
MR. TOMLINSON: I think that's what the bill
is.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not sure, but I'll look.
Yes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything elseY 1f not, we
have a motion and second. All in favor, raise your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(NO response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget
amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1 is for the Jail
Maintenance.
MR. TOMLINSON: We have a need to replace two
washing machines out at the jail. 'f his is a request from
Glenn Holek.amp to transfer a total of $632 from Jail Repairs
to Capital Outlay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
MR. 'POMLINSON: This is a late bill; I need a
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hand check Lux it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Lets, that the Court
approve Budger Amendment Request Number 1 for Jail
Maintenance and approve a late check in the amount of $632
payable Lo Sears. Any questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question.
We're talkinq about commercial washers?
MR. TOMLINSON: No, they're not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fardon?
MR. TOMLINSON: No, they are not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not talking about
commercial-type washers?
MR. TOMLINSJN: No.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What they have found
over the years is that the commercial washers haven't been
lasting any longer than the regular washing machines.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second question.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So they can get them
half the price.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a second
question. At one pint in time, we talY.ed about the
potential of an interlocal agreement with the Veterans
Administration to use this humungous automated laundry they
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have up on the hill there. Do we know what or if anything
ever came of that?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I've never heard
anything about that talk, but dust in knowing how it
operates at the jail, that may be difficult to really do
accurately, because we wash so much out there on a daily
basis. And, we have trustees doing all the washing, so
we're not, you know, paying out a salary to do that or
anything else. Just economically, it's probably better to
continue like we are.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further comments? If
not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budqet
Amendment Re_luest Number is for Juvenile Probation.
MR.. TOMLINSON: This is a -- for the
replacement of a computer in the Juvenile Probation Office,
and it is a non-budgeted item for them, but -- so I'm
requesting a transfer of $869 from Capital Outlay,
Nondepartmental, to transfer that into Capital Outlay in the
Juvenile Probation budget.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
The motion carried by unanimous vote.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3,
Sheriff's Department.
MR. TOMLINSON: This is related to the
removal of our insurance with TAC. We needed $322 in the
Vehicle Insurance line item, transferring that $322 out of
the Building Insurance line item.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
,7DDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner
Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve
Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for the Sheriff's
Department. Any further questions or comments? If not, all
in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(NO response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4
relates to Juvenile Probation again.
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MR. TOMLINSON: OY.ay. This is also related
to the auto insurance deal renewal, and we have a need to
txduSler $91 from Bonds in Juvenile Probation to Vehicle
Insurance.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second
DODGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Lett,
seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we approve Budget
Amendment Request Number 4. Any further questions or
comments^ If n.ot, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
J~JDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JrJDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we need
any further late bills?
MR. TOMLINSON: I have -- I have -- one
relates to an item that's on the agenda later. lt's for
David Motley's -- the liability insurance.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's hold that until we take
up that agenda item.
MP,. TGMLINSON: OY,ay. The next one is to the
Texas Police Association for $270. It's for training for
the Sheriff's Office. I need a -- this is a late bill that
we need a hand check for.
~OMM1SSiGNER LETZ: That's budgeted?
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MR. TGMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
MR. TOMLINSON: It's training.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
DODGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Williams, that we approve a late
bill to the Texas Sheriffs Association in the amount of two
hundred --
	MP.. TOMLINSON: Seventy dollars.
	JUDGE HENNEKE: $~70?
	MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
	JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments? If	not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
	(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
	JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
	(No response.)
	JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
	MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The next one is to
Comfort Inn in	Flano. It's for -- it's also for Sheriff's
Office and it'	s for some training for dispatchers, lodging
for that from	1/23 to 1/25.
	JUDGE HENNEKE: How much is it?
	MR. TGMLINSON: $354.
	COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
	COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
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JU LOGE IIENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner LeL~,
seconded by commissioner Griffin, that we approve a late
bill to Comfort Inn in Plano, Texas in the amount of $354
for training. Any questions or comments? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE IIE P7NEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The ner.t one is for
the jail, and it's for reimbursement to the Sheriff, $320.
It's for school expenses for two jailers in Fharr, Texas,
for $320.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that we authorize a late
bill in the amount of $320 to Sheriff Hierholzer for
training for jailers. Any questions uL cunmie nts?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZEP.: If I can comment on
that, it's kind of misstated tt-iere. IL's actually Lwo
dispatchers, but when we separated out dispatcher salaries
and jail salaries, we left everything else except Lkie
salaries the same, and we have two dispatchers that have to
be certified by the State to run the TLETS matt-line, and
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that's what that's for.
DODGE HENNEKE: 0}:ay. Any further questions
or comments? If not, all in favux, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Muti~u carries.
MR. TOMLINSON: The next one is to the
Country Hearth Inns and Suites, and it's Lox lodyiny for
those two dispatchers for $.78.20.
JUDGE HENNEKE: $278.20?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Con¢nissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve a
late bill in Lhe anwunL oI $278.20 to the Country Hearth
Suites for lodging for training. Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JrJLGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion. carries.
MR. TOMLINSON: The last one is reimbursement
to the Sheriff for $210. It's for the lodging for -- for
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the dispatcher that's -- for his training in -- in Plano.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that. we approve a
late bill in the amount of $220 payable to Sheriff
Hierholzer for dispatcher training lodging. Any questions
or comments? If not_, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(NO response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
Mk. TVMLINSON: I don't know if 1 mentioned
this before we started, that all these were -- these were
late bills.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Right.
Mx. '1'OMLINSON: We need hand checks.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. They --
MR.. TOMLINSON: I wanted to make sure.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. At this time, I would
entertain a motion to waive reading and approve the minutes
of the Friday, December 22nd, and Monday, December 11th
meetings.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
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DODGE HENNEKE: Moved by Cormissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court waive
reading and approve the minutes of the Monday, December
11th, Year 2000 regular session, and the Friday,
December 2''nd, Year 000 special session. Any questions or
~~omments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(NO response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, I'd entertain a
motion to approve and accept the monthly reports as
presented.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court
approve and arrept the monthly reports as presented. Any
questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your
right hands.
The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
DODGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
DODGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Nett item of
business is consideration agenda. Item Number la, consider
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and discuss an interlocal agreement between Kerr County and
the City of Kerrville regarding construction of T-hangars
and authorize County Judge to sign same. Commissioner
Griffin.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. As the Court
will recall, we have budgeted for the construction of our --
our -- the County portion of the construction costs on these
T-hangars, which will be revenue producers for the -- for
the airport. We're now down to the nitty-gritty of getting
that contract finalised. Megan will catch us up on that,
and we now need to come up with a method and a -- and a
policy and an agreement on how we're going to actually
transfer those funds to the City as the need arises during
the execution of the contract. So, I'd like to introduce
Megan Caffall, City of Kerrville, and she'll give us a quick
rundown on that. And, I suppose you've got a document that
you can leave with us for the Judge to sign?
(Discussion off the record.)
MS. CAFFALL: Yes, sir. It's good to be here
today. It's almost like we've been there and back. We
received eight bids on the T-hangars. They ranged from a
low bid of $395,961 to $73Z -- or $732,1°3, which is a
pretty good spread. We were real pleased with the bids, and
low bidder was by MPB, Inc., which is Mike Butler, a local
contractor here in town. Mike is -- has done quite a bit of
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construcl.iuii aL the airport, knows the airport, and 1 feel
real good about their bid. The agreement between the city
according to the contract.
The contract amount of $345,000 includes
budgeted in	the airport	budget.	That's	our Ramp	project for
this year, s	o that falls	outside	of the	agreement	between
the City and	County for	$320,000.	The	bid for th	e buildings
and foundations was $312,147, and the City had already spent
$5,602.50 for engineering and -- and geotechnical services.
That's a total of $317,749.50. So, if we're real lucky,
that's all we'll have to spend, but the nice thing about
this agreement is that we just split the expenses as they
occur and we won't have to pay in -- or y'all won't be
paying money ahead of time that we may not even spend.
So, I guess if y'all have any questions?
JUDGE HENNEKE: The understanding -- the
agreement says that when y'all get a bill, you approve it,
you send it to us, and we forward to you half of the amount
that you all have approved, up to the maximum amount of
$1b0,000; is that correct?
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MS. CAFFALL: Correct.
J~iDGE HENNEKE: So, we're just acting as a
funder for the draws that the City approves on its project.
MS. CAFFALL: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fifty percent funder.
DODGE HENNEKE: Yeah, 50 percent funder, up
to our $160,000 maximum.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think this is a very
good way to approve it. We're continuing to draw a little
interest on our monies while the project's underway, and
we'll pay it when it's due. I think that's the way to do
it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Megan, what's the
timeline for start and completion?
MS. CAFFALL: We have 90 working days in the
entire contract. As soon as the contract is awarded
tomorrow night, we'll have a preconstruction conference,
we'll get all the -- the payment performance bonds together
from the contractor. That usually takes about a week, and
then we schedule the preconstruction conference, at which
time he gives us his schedule for the construction. i don't
anticipate it's going to take 90 working days, but that
allowance is there in case -- right now we should be getting
started on our lighting project, but due to weather,
everything takes a little bit longer. So, as soon as the
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contract is awarded, though, the contractor can go ahead and
order the buildings. There's about an 8- to 10-week time
lag there. So, during that time, they can do the site work
and get the foundations poured, and hopefully -- I have to
wait until we get our schedule from the contractor, but I'm
hoping that we'll get right on this. This is another reason
I feel very good about this being a Iocal contractor. I
feel that their bid is very much a demonstration of
community support of the airport, and 1 thin}; that they have
a real clear understanding we need to get on with this as
quickly as possible. So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, as we're about
to break ground, how many confirmed reservations for
T-hangars do you have at this point?
MS. CAFFALL: I have letters on file Tor 22.
But --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're building lh,
right?
MS. CAFFALL: There's only lh, However, some
of these letters are over a year old. So, as soon as we
have awarded the contract and I have an estimation of what
our ~~ompletion time is, I'll start sending letters out to
those people. I would say at least -- at least half of them
have already -- you know, call me monthly, and so if we come
up with less than 16, we'll start marketing before they're
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completed, just using an estimated completion date. We'll
have the leases ready to go beforehand and get all -- as
many of them as we can executed before they're even
completed, and the start date of the lease will be the --
when the certificate of occupancy is issued on the
buildings. So, I -- the worst part of this is that we're
going to start this project and people are going ~o see il,
"Gh, wow, I can get a T-hangar in Kerrville," and they're
going to be full. So, that's what I anticipate. I'm sure
that -- I feel confident that that's what we'll end up with.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I can guarantee very
little in life, but I can guarantee you that those T-hangars
will be full from the tune you can stick an airplane in
there. There's so much demand -- obvious and latent demand
out there just waiting for somebody to build T-hangars at
the airport.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good thi:u~.
My only question is -- is regarding the interlocal
agreement. It looks like a standard agreement. I see that
the City Attorney has signed off on it. I'm just wondering
if the County Attorney has had an opportunity to glance at
it. And, if not, I would like for that to happen. And --
well, you're going to make the motion?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. I'll make the
motion that we approve the -- the interlocal agreement as
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submitted and authorize the County Judge to sign same, with
the proviso that before that occurs, sometime today we'll
ask our County Attorney to take a look at it, make sure
everything is --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- copacetic.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court
approve the interlocal agreement with the City of Kerrville
over construction of the T-hangars at the municipal airport
and authorize County Judge to sign same, subject to approval
of the agreement by the Kerr County Attorney. Any questions
or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just one comment.
Thanks, Megan, for all the hard work you've put in on this.
This is the person that's really made this happen.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true.
MS. CAFFALL: Thank you. I feel like we have
been there and back.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you,
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Megan. Item Number 2, consider and ~_iiscuss approval of a
resolution approving submission of a grant application to
the Criminal Justice Division of the Office of the Governor
for funding of the 216th Judicial District Narcotics Task
Force, and authorize County Judge to sign an Interagency
Agreement related to the grant application.
MR. DICKERSON: Judge, members of the Court,
I'm here as the Project Director for the Task Force today.
You'll notice on your paperwork Bi11 Hill was going to be
here, but we have to present this to Gillespie County and
Kendall County, and they have their court at the same time
you're having yours.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, what is your
name, for the record?
MR. UlCKERSUN: Chuck Dickerson.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
(Laughter.)
MR. DICKERSON: I should have said that right
off the bat. Thank you Tor correcting me. This is the 13th
year the Task Force has been in existence. We're asking
that you recommend that we further put this grant to the
Governor's office for funding for next year. You have all
the grant information. I don't know if you have the -- the
latest statistics. Our task force arrested 135 people last
year and confiscated -- seized illegal drugs in excess of
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$1,173,000. So, they're doing a great job.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comment. I sat on
this Court when the Task Force came into being, and was a
great supporter of it then, and I certainly am now. The new
configuration over there has seemed to have gotten away from
the DPS-type program. We're getting more back into local
control that I personally like a lot. And, if you have been
watching the newspapers in the last six months, for the
first time in those 13 years, they begin to report some
of -- some of the drug busts and -- and arrests they've been
making, and they've been doing a bunch, and I'm proud of --
proud of the program. Certainly -- certainly big-time in
favor of it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jonathan, I was just
going to move it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move the approval
of -- I think I'll read it in the record -- move the
approval of a resolution authorizing -- approving submission
of a grant application to the Criminal Justice Division of
the Office of the Governor, State of Texas, for funding of
the 216th Judicial District Narcotics Task Force, and
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authorize the County Judge to execute an Interagency
Agreement related to the grant application.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz. Any further
questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your
right hands.
(The motion pa
JUDGE HENNEKE:
(No response.)
JUUGE HENNEKE:
MR. DICKERSON:
JUllGE HENNEKE:
ssed by unanimous vote.)
All opposed, same sign
Motion carries.
Thank you.
Thank you, Chief. We
appreciate it.
MR. DICKERSUN: You bet.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 3,
consider and discuss presentation by Charlie Digges and Lane
Wolters on matters related to on-site sewage facilities.
Commissioner Griffin.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Subsequent to
our approval of our pending order before the '1'.N.R.C.C., I
had a request from Charlie Digges to present some
information to the Court. 1 have not seen it, so I'm not --
I'm not familiar with exactly what he's going to cover, but
it does bear on the issue, and he and Lane Wolters are going
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to give us a quirk. presentation on some ideas and inputs
that they have to the Court.
(Discussion off the record.)
issues in the last -- well, probably now you've got them
passed in the last couple of months dealing with water
availability, with the subdivision regulations, and also
with the on-site regulations, and I'm sure there was several
months of work, you know, prior to that that went into -- to
that. And, 1 know that's a lot of -- a lot of work, and we
commend you for that. We do have some concerns about what
has been passed, and we'd like to give you some background
data on why that is so.
The topics I want to discover they -- this
will be the background data here -- how -- how our on-site
systems work, the	types	that we use,	a few	of our	
experiences when	we do	inspection of	-- of	on-site	systems
at the time of sale. And, here's probably going to be the
most -- I think the most telling factor that we're going to
bring up. Texas has adopted its own Clean water Act in
response to pressure by EPA. They passed their Clean Water
Act back in the 19/0's, and they're getting more aggressive
about pursuing those standards with the states. And, so, in
response to that, in 1998 Texas adopted their own Clean
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Water Act, and now they're -- they're in the process of
identifying water bodies within the state that may have --
may be in trouble, or what they call "impaired." And, Camp
Meeting Creek is on that list, so we'll discuss that.
I want to discuss about the water quality in
touch on caliche and a few pending studies on caliche. Here
you've got a typical household, discharges into a septic
system here. And, what we want to do is we want to have
that -- that sewage discharge through the drainfield in
the -- what we call the "aerobic zone" of soil so that it
can get treated by certain microbes and digesters in the
soil and get cleaned up before it reaches the water table
down here. Or, if it migrates down -- downhill -- in this
case, this is uphill to the irrigation, but before it
reaches any type of surface water.
Why the placement of that sewage is important
is, if you look at the -- the depth these different
horizons -- the depth of the soils, and here are the
bacteria and the microbes that act on that sewage and clean
it up, you can see that as soon as you get down to 18,
36 inches deep, you're getting to an area where there's not
very many of those little critters to help us. They're
mostly in the upper 12 to 18 inches, and real close to the
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surface, actually. Of course, if we put it there, then we
have a problem with surfacing effluent, and if we get it
that close, we have to do pretreatment with an aerobic
system, and we want to avoid that if we can. But, we want
to -- we want Lo place Ohe sewage in an area where it can be
acted on and Mother Nature can take care of this process.
So, that -- that's our criteria here. If we go below here,
you can see -- if we are down below 36 inches, we're running
out of all of the little critters that help us.
The types of systems that we use -- and,
basically, we use about a third conventional, a third
low-pressure dosing, and a third aerobic systems. That's a
general breakdown of what systems will fit the different
sites that we have and comply with regulations that we have.
In a -- in a conventional system, you have a two-compartment
tank, and a lot of people believe there's a lot that happens
here. Really, only about 25 to 30 percent of the treatment
process to wastewater happens in a tank. Most of it happens
in the drainfield, in this first 2 foot of soil right below
the drainfield. That's where, again, you've got the
microbes and the digesters, and they're going to help clean
up all the wastewater. They're going to help clean the
pathogens that are in there that can -- ran make us sick
with hepatitis or diphtheria, dysentery, all those things
that are transmitted through sewage.
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The limitation with the conventional system
is that it enters the -- the ground a little bit deeper, and
doesn't have quite the digesters that -- like low-pressure
dosing would. Low-pressure dosing still utilizes a
two-compartment tank, but it also has a pump tan Y. that can
pump out the sewage once it reaches a certain level in the
tank and get out in that upper level of the soil. Now, I'll
put on another view here to better illustrate that.
Here we're looking at the drainfield now, and
these trenches are only about 14, 16 inches deep. And,
low-pressure dosing does two things; it elevates the
effluent to when it's pumped out to the field, it's in that
aerobic zone and it's able -- because it's under pressure in
all this piping network, it's able to evenly distribute the
wastewater within the field itself, and so that helps not
oversaturate any area and keeps the -- the aerobic
conditions alive for better treatment. 't'his -- this
system -- incidentally, it's really quite passive. Even
though it has a pump, that pump's only going to run about
five or ten minutes a day; going to use about $20 worth of
electricity in a year.
Here, again, is a quick cross-section of a
low-pressure dosing trench, anywhere from 6 to 12 inches
wide. We use 12 inches in our particular firm. You got pea
gravel down here. And, again, in this scenario here, let me
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mention, though -- with the conventional system, I mentioned
that you needed 2 foot of soil. Because this is a better
treatment process, the state standards allow that you only
need 12 inches of soil before you hit maybe a restricted
layer or some type of material that wouldn't need proper
treatment. So, the 12 inches of material is needed here, so
on those sites where we have limited soils and we have about
2 foot of soil, we can make a low-pressure dosing system
work; we don't have to go to an aerobic system.
And then here we have the aerobic system
where everything that -- really, just about all the
treatment that's going to happen is going to happen in the
tank itself. We don't have soil -- much soil on the site.
we primarily have rock or caliche, and we're going to clean
up that wastewater by injecting air there from a compressor
into diffusers at the bottom, and there's a certain
clarification area in the -- in the tank, and so water gets
cleaned up to certain standards.
This is all tested by the National Sanitation
in it. It's a very clear water, but it still has pathogens
in it, so it goes through a tablet chlorinator here, and the
pathogens are killed, and then it's able to be dispersed
through sprinkler heads in your yard. So, the -- once the
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elevation of the wastewater gets to a certain point, the
pump will kick on and it will discharge through the
sprinklers. Now, you qet some extra treatment here because,
you know, you're going to get the use of nitrates in the
water by the grasses.
One last system that we sometimes use -- some
folks are really adamantly opposed to the aerobic systems;
they do have a maintenance contract, and so on sites where
we don't have hardly any soil, we can come in and import
that -- the soil and create what's called a "mound" and get
the treatment process here before it ever reaches the
natural grade out there at the site. Some people don't like
that, though, either, because it's like a big lump in your
back yard sticking out there, and -- and it's -- you can --
if you got the right terrain, you can work at it and you can
get it to blend in, but sometimes you can't; it just really
sticks out.
Our experience with -- with inspections at
the time of sale, we did these prior to the County taking
over that function, and then subsequently rJ.G.R.A., back in
1992. And, here we have a site -- this is in Ingram --
where we uncovered the tank and we uncovered the drainfield.
Within l~ feet, the drainfield leaves the property, and so
this property was sold in this configuration. It didn't go
through a replat; it was an illegal division of land, and so
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this gentleman here had to come back -- and if he didn't get
along with his neighbor, he could plug the line and this
gentleman wouldn't have any drainfield. So, anyway, we had
stuck a new low-pressure dosing system out in this area
here. If you don't do a subsurface investigation, if you
don't try to find out where the drainfield is, this is the
type of thing that can happen.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Charlie, was that
system, the old system, working?
MR. DIGGES: It was functioning, yes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay.
MR. DIGGES: This is on the east side of town
out near the airport. This is Paradise Avenue off of
Hiqhway 27 out over here. This is River Drive and Front
Street. This was the Richard and Carol Land property at the
time. It backs up to the Guadalupe River, to give you the
location. They asked us to come out -- this wasn't at the
time of sale. This was -- this was -- they were thinkinq of
adding on, and they wanted to make sure they didn't get into
their septic system.
The problem was, the previous owners didn't
realize that when they added on, they built over their
cesspool, and so that's what they had underneath their house
was a cesspool. That's very close to the river, and -- and
then also very close to this well and another well over
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here. In fact -- this was back in '93-94. In fact, then
you had to be 150 feet away with your drainfield. We
and ask for a -- ask for a variance to the setbacks so --
'cause we could only get 70 feet from the drainfield from
the well here, and 100 feet here. And, so, what we did was
put in an aerobic system, chlorinate, kill the pathogens
and -- kill the pathogens and clean up the wastewater, and
then put it out here in this drainfield out in the front,
try to get away from the river.
The problem here, you know, with that -- that
cesspool here, they're typically deep. When you get close
to the river, kind of like, Judge, your property out in --
in the west part of the county, you may only perk down
from -- say a cesspool that's maybe 6 feet deep, you may
perk down another 10 feet. You're already at the h feet
level, you're already past the aerobic zone of the soil.
You know, you're going to perk down, good chance you're
going to hit a gravel bar, and that gravel bar is
interconnected with the river, and you're going to have some
water quality consequences associated with that.
Here is one where we kind of lucked out.
This was -- this was one where Cherokee Septic Tank pumped
out -- we found the tank and they pumped it out. When they
pumped it out, the side walls of the concrete tanks were
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collapsing; it wasn't a -- a cast-reinforced tank. It was
just with cinder blocks and mortar, and it started falling
apart. And, luckily in this case, it's on Arcadia Loop, and
Arr_adia Loop had city sewer. We recommended they tie into
city -- the city sewer. That's what they did out here, is
Arcadia Loop did that. The river's very close-by there.
The thing was probably leaking for quite some time, and by
inspection, it picked up.
What we're concerned about with -- with the
inspection process is that if you leave it up to the -- to
private industry, then typically it gets done by people who
will have the least amount of standards, so there's no -- if
there's no specified standards, a seller will want his
system to pass; he's going to migrate towards somebody who's
going to give him the answer that they want, and that
sometimes can happen. So, you have trouble with -- with
reduced standards.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Charlie, you've talked 15
minutes so far, which is longer than almost any presentation
that we've allowed in this court. And, while I understand
this is important, if you're going to talk for another 15 or
20 minutes, I think we need to do a workshop. We have too
much to do today to spend all morning on this one topic.
MR. DIGGES: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've had a number of
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discussions, we've had public hearings on it. I think it's
an important issue, but we have dealt with it a number of
times already. And, I don't have a problem having a
presentation for anyone in the public, but I think it needs
to be limited to 15, 20 minutes. And, from your list, I
don't see that we're going to get there in another five
minutes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that if
there -- particularly, Charlie, if there are some points
that you would like to have us really ponder --
MR. DIGGES: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- any change to our
pending order that's before the '1'.N.R.C.C., give us that as
quickly as you can.
MR. DIGGES: Well, let me do that.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're relatively
familiar with the Clean Water Act. We're relatively
familiar -- I think the whole Court is very up-to-speed
on -- on what the issues are between those who are in favor
of -- of an inspection at the time of real estate
transaction and those that say that there's another side of
that argument; we're familiar with the argument and what
that's based on.
MR. DIGGES: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, cut to the chase,
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if you can.
MR. DIGGES: Let me just focus on the Clean
Water Act, because I don't know if the Court realizes that
Texas adopted its own Clean Water Act, and they concentrate
on surface water quality standards. And, they're required
to develop a list of impaired water bodies that do not meet
standards. So, water bodies identified as impaired or
threatened are compiled into what is known as the 303-D
list. That's what I wanted to show you now. I'll bypass
some other ones here and go right to the one that -- there's
Camp Meeting Creek.
They -- they state that every water body on
this list has to be cleaned up. Now, I don't know -- you
may know that it's on the list, but I don't know if you know
that you'll be contacted at some time in the near future,
because all of these have to be cleaned up, and so you have
to be working on a solution. And, what our -- what our
problem is, is they got a lot of these here that are on low
priority. Even though they're low priority, they still have
to be cleaned up. We're of medium priority. We have
perhaps toxic pathogen levels in Camp Meeting Creek at
times. They've set that at a certain priority to them.
Everybody on this list is going to have to do a cleanup, and
that's going to cost taxpayers' money. Our concern is that
we're reducing standards, and yet, you know, here we have an
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instance where we're going to have something that's going to
cost the taxpayers money to clean up, and I don't know if
yuu all axe aware of that or not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We are aware of that,
Charlie. We also -- you may not be aware that we've applied
for grants for the very purpose of taking some of those
septic systems that are polluting some of the collector
streams that feed into Camp Meeting Creek -- we've
identified the area. We've asked -- we're seeking the
grants, and if we're successful on the grant search -- our
applications are successful, it is our intent to work out an
interlocal agreement with the City of Kerrville to hook
those up on the sewer. I'm not sure you were aware of that,
but that's part of a project that's been ongoing now for
about a year.
MR. DIGGES: That would be great. We think
that needs to be the solution, too. That's a good --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Charlie, you used the
words that we were "reducing standards" --
MR. DIGGES: Yes.
CUMM155IONER BALDWIN: -- at some point in
your presentation. I assume that you're going to get to
that point, that where -- you're going to point out where we
are reducing standards, exactly what you mean?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You're talking about
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inspections, is what your talking about?
MR. DIGGES: Well --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 'Cause we haven't
reduced anything from 285.
MR. DIGGES: -- you're reducing -- see, when
I talked to Ken Graber -- I wasn't here when a gentleman
from the audience asked if we went by just the state
standards, would we be protecting Kerr County, and that is
-- and that's probably, to a certain extent, true for new
construction. But, for existing areas where we already have
problems, for us not to address situations where we already
have failing systems -- and when I say "failing systems,"
not only from an absorption standpoint, but from a treatment
standpoint, then how are we ever going to improve water
quality in those areas, unless we go to that extent that
you're talking about? Our only dilemma is that we have
other areas; Oak Forest South off of 173 across from The
Woods, and Greenwood Forest. We have other areas --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Charlie, in the
interest of time, let me jump in here and let me tell you
that the -- the thought process that the Court has gone
through on this. What we have said is -- is that the state
standards, adequately enforced, protect, obviously, new
construction and so on, and that we expect anyone who is in
the business of -- of trying to clean things up to find the
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polluters and go fix them, whether that takes legal action
or a reminder, a request or whatever. So, the Court -- the
Court went through the mental process that you're talking
about, the need for an inspection at the time of real estate
transfer. What we have said is -- is that we think that
all -- any polluter needs to be found out and to have the
system fixed. Not just at the time of sale, but anytime.
And, that is an enforcement, and that is a -- a separate
issue, and we have addressed that. Now, if you've got
something new to tell us in that area, I think we'd all want
to hear it, but that's not -- I'm hearinq the same arguments
that we've heard before --
MR. DIGGES: You're --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- at public hearings
and so on.
MR. DIGGES: You're dealing -- you're saying
that it's -- there's two types I've not even showed up here;
it's PS and NPS, point source and non-point source. Many of
what we're -- what we're dealing with in water quality is a
non-point source. You can't point at one house; it's
collectively. They're all not -- some of them are not
treating to the level they should, and then you have a
problem in your creek.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Then we ought to go
investigate, then. And, what we said is, if it backs up to
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the river and the river's got pollution in it, let's go find
the polluter and -- let's find it and let's narrow it down
and let's go tix that problem. That's what we have said
will work. Now, you can disagree with that, but that's
not -- that's -- but that's where we are. And, unless you
can present us something that would change our mind in that
regard -- and that's the reason I say cut to the chase, and
let's talk about caliche or talk about how those systems are
done. I have a question, for example, of what standard is
aay septic system inspected to? And, I don't think there is
one that we're usinq.
MR. DIGGES: No, there isn't.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Very subjective. If
it's subjective, it can be arbitrary and capricious as well,
so --
MR. DIGGES: Well, that's why we elected to
go with the government body, because they could set
standards and we could debate that standard and get it down
to a refined point. But, when you leave it up to -- when
you don't have standards and there's no required standard,
people are going to gravitate to whatever answer they're
going to want to get, and that's what happened in the past
in these other areas, in the areas of Greenwood Forest.
You're going to have smaller lots with conventional systems
in caliche. In Kerrville South, that's what you have. In
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Oak Forest South, that's what you have. And, with the --
with the passage of the new rules, you're going from 1-acre
LracLs Lo, if you use surface water, down to half-acre
tracts. We're increasing our density and we're allowing
things back in caliche. We're going the same direction we
went before that caused a problem.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let's dispose of the
caliche argument right quick, if we can. I've done an
extensive search of the literature, and the Carlisle Study
was certainly not the -- all the answer.
MR. DIGGES: No.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, in fact, in his
study, he mentioned the word "caliche" one time. And, from
what I have heard previously, I would have thought that the
whole study was aimed at caliche. He used -- the word
"caliche" appeared in the study one time, and then, after
making some generalized comments, jumps right into
essentially what are the state standards. It says that this
is what you do; you classify the soil, you come up with a
reading, blab, blab, blab, you design a system and so forth.
And, that can be a wide range of systems. 1 don't think
anybody's going to ever argue that. T.N.R.C.C. doesn't
argue that.
MR. DIGGES:	Right.		
CUMM1SSlONER	GH1P'P'1N:	Now, the -	- and, as
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Lai as ~_aliche, I can give you a stack of stuff here that I
have done research on. The caliche problem is certainly not
answered. There are a number of studies much more current
than the Carlisle Study --
MR. DIGGES: Sure.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- that totally
disagree with him. xe says that caliche is not a soil, and
we have -- we have peer review studies. Not just a study
done like the Carlisle Study, but have gone through peer
review, and those studies say that caliche does have
microorganisms in it. Now, I don't know which one's right,
but you've got to take real data and not assert on the basis
of one person's opinion that it's one way or the other.
That just is not good science.
MR. DIGGES: We're not doing that, either.
We realize that there's other studies that are pending, and
we're wondering why the Court is -- when those -- those are
pending -- as a matter of fact, it was ourselves, my firm
and U.G.R.A., that went to the Research Council and asked
for a study on caliche. That's -- the results of that are
supposed to be out in May of this year.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I've already got the
interim Yhase 1 report.
MR. DIGGES: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It says -- it's got
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some very interesting things in there -- that there are
natural buffers in the caliche soils in the Hill Country,
and that -- that the result in caliche was much different
than what was expected when they went in. The Partin Study
that was done in '97 --
MR. DIGGES: Right.
CUMMISSiUNEK GRl@'@'iN: -- indicated -- and
that was a lab study -- indicated that there was much more
treatment in caliche-type soils than was expected before
they went into the study. The interim Phase I report out of
the City of Austin's ecological systems, whatever they are,
indicates essentially the same thing. Interesting part of
that study is that that study has -- and these are
monitored. These are holes that are dug and wells that are
dug to monitor a specific kind of system, and it appears
that the nitrates that are injected as a result of an
aerobic system can cause more harm to the drinking water
quality than some of the other problems we've got with
pathogens and -- and nitrogen, other nitrogen products.
So -- so, there is a wide, wide field of study here and a
lot of stuff going on. We have made a rule -- we have
established a rule based on the best evidence we have. When
those studies come out and the final results are in, if they
indicate something different, this Court, I'm sure, would
want to consider it, but that's where we are today.
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MR. DIGGES: Well, we just want to go on the
record as saying we think that you're making lot sizes
smaller, you're allowing systems to go back into caliche,
when I think at this point it still is controversial. And
we have evidence -- I can show you evidence, if you want to
take the time, where we have problems with the seeps in the
areas of those -- of those subdivisions I've talked about.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That is a problem for
the subdivision workshop, and I would be glad to listen to
it at the right time. And I don't mean that as a put-down
at all; I'm just saying that -- that when we qet to that
technical level, we probably need to do that in a workshop
environment. In fact, we've probably gone beyond where we
need to be, anyway. Let me just say that there are -- the
American Society for Testing and Materials, A.S.T.M., which
I'm sure you're familiar with, has peer-reviewed documents
and they have put it out in -- in good form. For example,
they have a comprehensive inspection procedure for
evaluation of septic systems. I'd like to know if anybody
has ever looked at that. I don't think we have. I would
like to be able to hand a sheet of paper to the landowner,
developer, anybody, and say, Here's the way you ought to
inspect the system --
MR. DIGGES: Well --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- to protect you and
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to protect the rest of the people around you and the
environment, the whole thing. So, it's a very controversial
subject, and I'm nut sure where we're going to get with this
today. And, I'll be glad to sit down and talk more, and in
a workshop environment; I Lkrink Commissioner Letz has that
right. But, we have been through most of this. That's my
bottom line.
MR. DIGGES: Here's my dilemma, okay? I've
come to the Court before when there's been a workshop, but
it's mostly been people being able to get up and speak for
two or three minutes without getting to the technical level,
and that's all that the -- the communication has been. And,
so, wt-ien I hear "workshop" again, the reason I'm out here
now is so I can do this type of presentation, because at the
wurkskiup I wasn't allowed that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, did you ask ahead
of time and plan Lhe workshop? I mean, generally, I think
if you or anyone wants to make a presentation at a workshop,
we will allow them to do that. But, just to come in with a
group of people and raise your hand and say, "I want to
speak for 95 minutes" when we aren't aware of that, haven't
planned for it, I don't think that's reasonable.
MR. DIGGES: I agree with that. But, we
haven't had the type of dialog, I think, that we really
need, because Lane and I have legitimate concerns of
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what's -- what's liappeniny, because he's been here, 1 don't
know, a long time, and he's seen the type of development
that's gone uii acid Lhe results of that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My recommendation to the
Judge and Lhe rest of the Court is, you know, let's set a
workshop if we want to go over this. We can look at the
Subdivisiuii Rules at the same time. I think this is better
done in an afternoon session. We have a lot of people in
the audience xiyhL now that are waiting to get through a
very long agenda already, and I just think that it is not --
this is nod the right time to go into a lengthy discussion
on one topic.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me also point out,
probably in the interest of time, we can do that, because
our pending rule is probably going to be approved next week.
We're not going to -- there's no way we can turn that off,
even if we wanted to --
MR. DIGGES: Sure.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- at this point,
'cause we don't have it on the agenda today. I'd be glad to
set a workshop and try to get some more of the technical
data out on the table so that everybody can get a look at
it. I may sound a little impatient, because 1've spent a
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lot oI time doiny this --
MR. DIGGES: I understand.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- this stuff. But,
other members of the Court and other members of the public
might not see that. So, why don't we do that? And, we'll
set up a time, and I'll have to actually coordinate the time
to do that.
MR. DIGGES: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Charlie, I have a real
quick question, first, and I want you and Lane to help me a
little bit with this. There are a lot of people -- and I
mean a lot, more than a few. A lot of people that ask me a
question, and I'm sure that every person at this table's
been asked this question -- or, actually, it's a statement;
that the reason old Charlie and Lane are so nervous about
this thing is because they're losing money. Now, what I
want to ask you is, how -- what kind of response can I -- I
mean, I see it's much deeper than that. I can see that.
But what kind of response can I give people? Have y'all had
that question?
(Several Commissioners nodded.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, we all have. How
can we respond to it? Help us work through that, because
that -- I'm going to tell you, there's some angry folks out
there with that on their mind.
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MR. UIGGCS: 1 can understand that. And
there's -- there's -- there can be that perception. I went
through this myselt just last week, where 1 did some soul
searching. Why am I pursuing this so hard? Is it for my
own personal gain, or do we really have some problems? I
went to Scott Loveland and I said, "Am I just nuts, or do we
have real problems?" And he said, "Charlie, you're on a
good cause; you need to keep going." We do have some water
quality problems that I don't think are being addressed.
MR. WOLTERS: I'd like to say a few words to
you, Buster, in answer to that. I'm Lane Wolters, and we're
not going to take much more of your time. We do need to
have a workshop, though. And, this question does come up.
And, I mean, it's sort of like you're the -- you're this guy
at the carnival; you're the one everybody's throwing the
ball at when you stand up and try to talk like this. You
know you're going to get that very same question. And, let
me just answer this way. Charlie and I have talked about
this, too. Why do we set ourselves up for this? Because --
you know, my answer -- we could sit back and probably -- I
know Charlie would agree with me, we would make more money
if there were no rules in this county. Okay? Because the
-- the most money that I ever make is on a conventional
system. So, if I were in it for the money, I would be up
here, and Charlie would be too, saying, "Let's don't do
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aerobic, let's don't do pressure dosing; let's just do one
type of system where we don't have to fool with designs, we
don't have to have time involved in any of that kind of
stuff. We don't have the hardware or the technology that we
have to buy. We don't have to come back to that system over
and over again for two years. We can just take the money
and run." That is my answer to this.
If you're -- we're also concerned about
density on septic systems that would, we think, have caused
many of the problems in the past, and continue to cause
problems now. If we were in it for the money, we would want
what? Less density or more density? We'd want more, so
what -- we wouldn't be here against what has been passed on
that deal. We would say, "Hey, we can put four systems on a
1-acre lot instead of one system; we make four times the
money." Duh. So, that's my -- my answer to this question,
is that we would make a lot more money in this business if
we just stayed with conventional systems. It would cost a
lot more. There's more overhead, profit margin is less for
the aerobic systems and pressure dosing systems, and
certainly the attitude is, you know, more favorable for
conventional systems. So, that's my answer. We'd make more
money if we weren't up here looking and trying to make our
coneerns known, and where -- the direction the Court's going
in this program.
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COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thank you for ynux
comments. Let me just say, too, if I may interrupt for a
second, that we really appreciate Charlie and Lane coming in
and -- and taking the time to think through this and present
it in a logical sequence and an engineering approach, whicYi
I happen to like, myself. That's the way to do it, and we
better need to do that in a workshop environment, and I
would look forward to hearing more on all these issues. I
don't -- and the Court just needs to move on for Loday, but
we will set a workshop and try to go through this in detail.
Mk. DIGGES: Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: You're going to work out a
time with Lane and Charlie and bring it back to the Court?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. We'll probably
need time enough to get that notice out and all that, so iL
would probably have to be after the next --
COMM1SS1uNER LETZ: Afternoon of our next
meeting or something? I mean, I --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, just -- we'll have
to --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Have to set a public
hearing.
DODGE HENNEKE: Not a public hearing, but --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I mean a --
JUDGE HENNEKE: -- a workshop.
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COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Set a workshop.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Which we have to do by agenda
item, so it can't be till after our meeting.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm just not sure how
fast we want to get that together. We've got some things to
do.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Syfan, do you have
something you wanted to add on this topic?
MR. SYFAN: Yes. I'll try not to take quite
as long as they did, but I think there's another item that
ought to be included in the workshop, and it may solve a lot
of these problems. In the past ten years or so, there's
been a lot of conflict of interest and crony-ism in this
subject. These proponents are always in the forefront of
that. I do want to compliment the County Court. You have
studied your lessons, and I compliment you. There are some
problems in the county, and we ought to dig them out and we
ought to solve them. There's no question about that. There
are ways to do it.
But, the problem that I see is one that's
been faced by many professions. I'm a retired civil
engineer. I'm very familiar with conflicts of interest
and -- and the setting of standards within a -- professional
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ethics. The ethics of most professions are set by the
professions, and one really hasn't developed within this
profession as it has splintered off. If you go to a doctor,
you do not expect to buy your pills from that doctor.
Ethically, it's forbidden. If you go to the optometrist,
you don't buy your glasses from the doctor who is
prescribing your lenses. I think if we can't do it
ethically, we ought to do it legally. We ought to separate
the design and the construction of these units. There is a
conflict of interest. Last time I was up here, I -- I spoke
of it, and I -- I didn't speak clearly enough. I said there
was a vile -- "vile" conflict of interest being exercised
here, and I was quoted in the paper as saying "mild." And,
I want to say it very clearly. It's vile, as in heinous. I
think you need to address this in a workshop, and I'd surely
like to participate.
JUDGE HENNEKE: 't'hank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, one brief
comment -- one comment that Charlie made that I really and
truly agree with. He said that Lane had been around here a
long time. Lane Wolters is the "old geezer" of septic
tanks.
MR. WO L'1'E RS: Never thought it would come to
that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you are, buddy.
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You Linally reached it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Charlie, thank you and Lane
for coming in. We will set a workshop. We will give you
the times to do this properly. This is something we have to
do right. We appreciate your time and input.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I think I might
add a workshop -- I think we probably ought to style it to
do lot size on Subdivision Rules at the same time, because
they are interrelated, and we have made some big changes in
the subdivision side, too.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We'll work it out.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll get it all in one
package.
MR. WOLTERS: Thank you.
MR. GIGGES: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is ltem Number 9,
consider and discuss a variance for O.S.S.F. licensing
requirements, Eddie and Joyce Sowell, owners of Lot 1, Block
~, and Lot 1, Block 3 of the Harrison Tract in Center Point.
Commissioner Williams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unfortunately,
Commissioner, we're not going to qet too far away Yrom the
topic that Charlie was presenting just a moment ago. This
has to do with granting a variance for Eddie and Joyce
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Sowell in Center Point. It has a long history, very
complicated history. There is an issue that relates to a --
back to a real estate transfer, and it has to do with the
Sowells being taken to court on two occasions, and on both
occasions there have been motions approved to dismiss the
issues put before them. And, I think the best thing to do
is to ask Mr. Sowell if he'll come to the podium and help
us -- step us through this. Mr. Sowell purchased the
property. On the property when he purchased it in 1998, I
believe, there was both an existing septic tank, a
drainfield, and a well in close proximity to each other,
well underneath the standards set by the State. Mr. Sowell
bought the property. Mr. Wiedenfeld bought the well. The
well was subsequently capped. Mr. Sowell kept his property
and signed an agreement -- some -- some type of an agreement
proffered by r7. G.R.A. on behalf of the County to do some
upgrading to his system within a 6-month period of time. Is
that correct, Mr. Sowell?
MR. SOWELL: That is correct, yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That didn't take
place, I think, although he did do some upgrading of the
drainfield at a subsequent time. Mr. Wiedenfeld, on behalf
of his water -- Wiedenfeld Water Works Company, capped that
well and drilled a second well, still within the -- the
perimeter, within the perimeter allowable by state rules; I
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thin Y. some 75 feet from the existing well -- prior well, but
well within the 150-foot limit established by the State.
Mr. -- Mr. Sowell has been to court on a couple of
occasions. He's now here seeking a variance, and I think
it's appropriate for him to make his case, and let's ask
some questions. Mr. Sowell?
MR. SUWHLL: Basically, what he said --
Mr. Williams -- is basically all I have. When I bought the
property from -- from Beverly Harrison, at the time I didn't
know anything about this well system or a public water
system or anything. It's Mr. Wiedenfeld -- one of his
systems, which is now capped. I have a plugging report. It
was capped March of X000. He was, you know, serving water
to the public, and I wasn't fully aware of where my septic
system was, you know. And then, when I did find out, my
leach line was approximately about 12 foot from his well
head, no more than 15.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was put in by the
Harrisons; is that correct?
MR. SUWELL: Yes. Yes, sir. And, one of the
issues is now brought up that my tank is undersized, my line
is not long enough, soil conditions are not permitting. My
septic system is not failing. I have had Pete from A-1 come
out, because Dawn Wright asked me to do that to, you know,
comply with U.G.R.A. He come out, opened up the end of my
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leach line, dug a test hole, pumped my tank. He give it a
visual inspection. He told me, you know, before he did it,
he said, "Mr. Sowell, I got to let you know, if your tank is
failing, if there's anything wrong, I will report it." And,
I said. "Yes, sir, that's why I called you, because of your
honesty." He come highly recommended. Mr. Wiedenfeld come
out and he looked at the septic system aster it was pumped,
and then he sent Mr. Bowers out, and I -- and I got a report
that, you know, everything is wrong with it and that 1 qot
to qet plans for a new septic system. And, there's nothing
wrong with my tank. There's nothing wrong with my leach
lines.
COMMISSIONER
of your plat? I think the
MR. SOWELL:
COMMISSIONER
we're talking about and the
wells, the septic --
MR. SOWELL:
COMMISSIONER
WILLIAMS:
;ommission
Yes, sir,
WILLIAMS:
proximity
Yes, sir.
WILLIAMS:
Do you have the copy
ors need to see --
I do.
-- exactly where
of those things, the
-- and so forth. Dc
you have that?
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, could you come
up here and point it out for the Commissioners?
MR. SOWELL: Mind if I come around?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Stay right there.
MR. SOWELL: What we have here is, this is my
property. Charles Wiedenfeld's well is -- his holding
tank -- this is the one that's capped, and these holding
tanks are still here. He has this property here, and this
is his new well. This is Mr. Wiedenfeld's new offices. My
septic system sets behind my house, right -- kind of, and
the line runs out -- it's no more than about 15 feet away
from the well head, acid of the one he just had recently
plugged back in March 2000. He is now operating this well
here, which is -- he did not have a sanitary easement in
place before putting that well in. He came in and wanted me
to grant him a sanitary easement, and I declined to do so,
so therefore he went to T.N.R.C.C. and asked for an
exception, and he just recently got that. I have that
document also. My water quality was bad, and I called
T.N.R.C.C. out, and they've run inspections on my water.
And, he doesn't -- I've got copies of that, where he
doesn't -- he hasn't -- you know, he's failing. He doesn't
even meet the minimum state requirements for having enough
chlorine.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When was this?
MR. SOWELL: Right here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the date?
MR. SOWELL: The date on it was October "22nd,
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1999. I've had them out on several occasions, and they
failed not only once, but several times.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this dotted line
on this plat purported to be the 100-year floodplain?
MP.. SOWELL: Yes, sir, it is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And, is -- is your
property and your septic outside of the 100-year floodplain?
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is Mr. Wiedenfeld's
office and tank within the 100-year floodplain?
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir, I believe so. I'm nut
a surveyor, but, I mean, it's evident.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Step back, Mr. Sowell.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Sowell, what improvements
have you made to your septic?
MR. SOWELL: I did not have a cleanout plug
between the house and septic system, and I believe in that,
too. I was raised on a septic system, and I had -- had that
put in by All-Tex Plumbing.
JUDGE HENNEKE: What other improvements Piave
you made?
MR. SOWELL: I haven't made any other
improvements.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay.
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MR.. SOWELL: I just administer plant enzymes
in my tank, also. And, you know, I mean, being raised on a
septic system, you got to know how to to ke care of them ur
they will fail.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the issue today is
whether or not we should grant a variance to allow Mr.
Sowell to get a permit for his system. Is that what we're
here for?
COMMISSUJNER WILLIAMS: I think that's the
issue, and I think Mr. Sowell's basis is reluctance to do
this by reason of a statement on the plat dated August 18,
1986, signed by Lane Wolters. "I hereby certify that the
sewer disposal utility system proposed for installation iii
the subdivision platted hereon will fully meet the
requirements of the Texas Department of Health and U.G.R.A.,
and are hereby approved as shown." I think that -- is that
correct, Mr. Sowell, that this is the basis upon which you
have resisted making change?
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Comments: Questions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the question I
have is, you -- one of your statements -- well, first of
all, the water issue and Wiedenfeld Water Works has nothLng
to do with this. That's a different issue; we don't need to
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talk about tha*. That's a deal between you and T.N.R.C.C.
and Mr. Wiedenfeld and T.N.R.C.C. The issue, to me,
basically is, is your system working or failing? You
have -- you said you had -- I believe you have had one
report from A-1 or --
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that it was fine, and
you had another report from U.G.R.A. that said it was bad.
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, which is correct?
I mean, what are the -- I guess, cahat are the times or the
dates of those two inspections? Are they far apart or close
together?
MR. SOWELL: No, very close together, within
a week. I had to have Pete come out there, and they exposed
my tank and ]each line and all that, and there was
improvement to that septic system prior to me buying that
house, because it used to have the oId clay-filled line.
Now we have the perforated plastic.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, you need --
basically, those two entities need to come to us, present --
if they can't resolve whether it's -- the system is failing
or not, and -- 'cause that's the issue. It the system's
failing, it needs to be fixed. If it isn't, to me, it
doesn't.
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MR. SUWELL: If my septic system was failing,
sir, believe me, I would fis it. I would repair it, 'cause
I have to live there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wel], we have -- what
you're saying, U.G.R.A. says it is failing.
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, thereLoLe, there's a
conflict on that point, and that's the issue,
JUDGE HENNEKE: Did they say it was failing
or did they say it didn't meet the current standards?
MR. SOWELL: The way they stated it, it
doesn't even meet 1977 standards or '97 standards.
JUDGE HENNEKE: But, did they say it was
failing, or did they .say it didn't meet the standards?
MR. SOWELL: Basically, they -- I have the
document that says that it just didn't meet the standards.
They didn't say it was failing.
JUDGE HENNEKE: What were the complaints?
What was the basis of the complaints that were brought and
dismissed before J.P. 2?
MR. SOWELL: The complaint was that I was in
the Health Code violation.
COMMISSIONER WILLlAMS: Failing to obl.aiu a
license.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Those were dismissed?
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CGMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, they were
dismissed. The complainant, I believe, Mr. Wiedenfeld, is
here.
MR. LUCAS: Let me just make a point on that.
The second dismissal was based on the fact that Rex Emerson,
my predecessor, had filed the complaint based on a rule that
I found right before we were to go to trial, the rule -- you
couldn't prosecute anybody on it. In other words, he -- he
cited the wrong rule. It was some procedural rule. So,
that's why it was dismissed. And, the way that it got here
is Judge Stacy, Mr. Sowell and Charlie and I, the day we
were to go to trial, all met and I said, "Okay, you know,
what's the deal on this? Let's talk it through." And then
both parties decided to bring it up before the Court and
Commissioner Williams. But, that just gives you a
background. It was just that Rex filed it -- or I guess it
was Rex. I'm pretty sure it was Rex filed it under the
wrong rule.
JUllGE HENNEKE: What is the first complaint,
Travis?
MR. LUCAS: You know, I really don't know.
This is -- what, 1998 was the first time it was filed?
It -- it was dismissed by Motley -- Motley's signature, and
I believe it's in y'all's packet. So, I really don't know,
and there's nothing in the file that suggests what it was.
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I would presume it would be for not having a license or
malfunctioning or something to that effect. There's nothing
in the file.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Signature. I think
that's it, Travis. But, however, referring back to a letter
that U.G.R.A. wrote to Mr. Sowell June 14th of 2000, they --
they state, among other things, over Mr. Wiedenfeld's
signature, that he has a 490-gallon, single-compartment
tank, 40 linear feet of drainfield in gravelly soils. Both
tank and drainfield are undersize, even for 1977 standards
as well as 1997 standards, and would need to be upgraded and
so forth. The soil profile hole shows gravelly soils.
These conditions require an alternative system. Alternative
systems require professional engineer or registered
sanitarian, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Mr. Sowell, is
your property located adjacent to Mr. Wiedenfeld's office?
MR. SOWELL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the soil condition
the same on Mr. Wiedenfeld's property as it is in yours, to
your knowledge?
MR.. SOWELL: I don't think it's going to
change within 25 feet or so, no. A hundred feet, not even,
no, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think
Mr. Wiedenfeld needs to answer a question; whether he
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adhered to the same standards in the construction of his as
he's seeking Mr. Sowell to adhere to in the reconstruction
of his.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me ask another
question first. is there a license now on the system?
MR. SUWELL: That is why the --
CUMMISSIUNER GRIFFIN: An old, existing
license? Is there one?
MR. SUWELL: 'c'hat's what is shown on that
plat, I believe. I -- you know.
CUMM1551UNER WILLIAMS: He's relying on the
plat -- the document on the plat when they purchased the
property -- the statement on the plat.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But that is not a
license, per se. I'm asking is there a license, per se?
MR. WIEDENFELD: No, sir, there's no license,
per se. Charles Wiedenfeld, Kerr County's Designated
Representative. That's been the case from day one. He
recognizes the fact that there was not a license. He
executed a document at the time of sale with the seller,
fully acknowledging there was not a licensed septic system
and that it was to be -- one year was granted for him to
obtain the funds and the engineering necessary to have a
license and have a licensed septic system placed. And --
and one other issue on this -- on this is that there was --
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in an old order that possibly was still in effect at that
time, it specifically says in there that approval of a
subdivision plat does not authorize or license a septic
system. And, I'm referencing a -- an Upper Guadalupe River
Authority septic order that was in place at that time, and
it specifically has language in there that says that it does
not license a system by just having a standard plat
approval.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Is this system grandfathered?
When was this system installed?
CUMMISSIUNER GRIFFIN: When was the system
installed originally? Do we know?
MR. SUWELL: I'd say it was probably back in
the '40's, maybe back in the 'S0's, somewhere in there.
CUMM1551UNER LETZ: 'f his issue came up under
real estate transfer.
COMMISSIONER W1LLlAMS: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Inspection.
COMM1551ONER GRIFFIN: Kight, so it was
grandfathered up to that time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Once it got transferred,
under our current rules, I guess -- I mean, our current
rules still require the license. New rules haven't been
approved yet. I think one of your instructions was about
whether the system was the same on Mr. Wiedenfeld's
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property. 1 don't Y.now that chat's relative. I believe Mr.
Wiedenfeld has a different type of system, don't you? A
mound?
MR. WIEDENFELD: I have a soil replacement
system, which is an engineered system.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Different type of system
that was installed on that adjoining property.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the issue is
whether or not we give Mr. Sowell relief, so I would make
the motion that he be granted a variance to the O.S.S.F.
licensing requirements. See where it goes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I wish we had more
information -- more technical information on what we would
be granting a variance on. And, are we -- would we be
granting a variance on the tank size or on the drainfield
construction? Or what is it that we're -- that we're -- we
obviously have -- I think, would have to be granting a
variance on tank size.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Simplistically,
Commissioner, I think we'd be granting a variance on the --
on an un -- prior to unlicensed system, which is -- has been
defined now as undersized but functional, and the variance
would be for the license requirement. That's as I
understand it.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're asking --
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I guess my
question goes back to what I said earlier, is that we have
these two entities, both that -- one said that the system is
fine and one that says the system isn't fine. And, is
the -- is U.G.R.A.'s position that the system isn't fine
because the tank size is wrong? Or is it the system isn't
working right? And that's kind of the issue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's find out.
MR. WIEDENFELD: In order to license a septic
system, it has to meet minimum state standards. A
license -- or a pumper, a septic pumper is not licensed or
qualified to make any assessment as to the type of septic
system or its condition. His license is to -- is to pump
the sewage out of a tank and transport it to a -- a
qualified position to dump it, and that's --
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the U.G.R.A. Does the
U.G.R.A. study report say that the system is not performing,
that it is failing?
MR. WIEDENFELD: I cannot make a statement as
to performance of a septic system. It is assumed that if it
is put in to minimum state standards, that it will function
properly.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The question is, when you and
Mark Bowers went out there, did your report say that the
system was failing and not functioning properly, or did your
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report say that the system did not meet the requirements?
MR. WIEDENFELD: It does not meet the
requirements, does not meet minimum state standards and --
or to license a septic system.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, your report does not say
that it is failing, that it is not performing to handle the
waste?
MR. WIEDENFELD: Failing can mean many things
that were not inspected, that we did -- that the inspection
did not provide for in order for making -- in order for us
to make a determination accordingly.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Charlie, let me ask a
question here. In your paragraph, you say that he has a
490-gallon, single-compartment tank, and that is -- just
wait a minute -- that that is too small. What is the
number? What sire of compartment --
MR. WIEDENFELD: Today's standards require a
750-gallon, two-compartment tank.
MR. STACY: Today.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. And then
he has 40 linear feet of drainfield. How many feet is he
supposed to have?
MR.. WIEDENFELD: Again, that depends on the
soil conditions, and in this type -- he has gravelly soils
and would have to replace it or do an alternative system,
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which would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 linear
feet, 400. I couldn't give you an exact feet on that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, it sounds like, to
me, the thing was built back in the whenevers, and it's come
through -- come through all these years and it's working
fine, but suddenly now we've -- we're going to require him
to go out and change his system to an alternative system.
For what reason? Because we -- today's standards? Today's
numbers? I don't get it. If it's not failing -- if it's
not failing, why are we going to require him to change,
Charlie?
MR. WIEDENFELD: Kerr County rule, Chapter
8.02, requires that upon intent to sell a piece of property,
a license is required.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's that rule
state?
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, under
our -- if the new rules are approved with T.N.R.C.C., this
issue would go away -- I mean, not go away, 'cause it's
under the old rules, but it would not be an issue under the
new rules, correct?
COMMISSIUNER VRIFFIN: Correct.
MS. SOVIL: Could I ask when that plat was
signed? In 1987'?
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MR.. SOWELL: '86.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gordon Morriss.
MS. SOVIL: 86, okay. Lane Wolters worked
for U.G.R.A. at that time, and they were issuing subdivision
licenses. I have one.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe it was '8E.
JUDGE HENNEKE: August 18th, 1986.
MS. SOVIL: They were issuing however many
licenses that subdivision needed, and it -- mine comes from
U.G.R.A. Whether I have an actual physical license in
U.G.R.A., I don't know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What my -- what
little note of interest, then. Based on this case and what
we've heard today, if, as, and when you decide to sell your
property, you may have -- be confronted with a similar
problem.
MS. SOVIL: That's correct. But we are all
under the assumption we have licenses.
COMMISSIONER. WILLIAMS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there any reason
that this can't wait till our newt session? Because I just
saw the backup stuff today for the first time, and I think
this is a very complicated -- and you see how thick it is.
I would really like to go through that before voting one way
or another.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Making a decision.
COMMI551GNER WILLIAMS: I have no problem
with that. We can put it back on. I think, in the interest
of trying to get to the -- to a fair solution, Mr. Sowell,
the other Commissioners want to have a chance to go through
this very thick file which I acquired from U.G.R.A. I had
an opportunity to read it, and it was available for others,
but time just didn't permit them to see it as conclusively
as I did or as completely as I did. So, I think, in the
interests of fairness, giving you a fair hearing and a fair
opportunity, we'll conclude this dis~~ussion today, and I
will put it back on the agenda for next Commissioners Court
meeting.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Sowell.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE HENtdEKE: Okay. Let's take a break
until a quarter till.
(Recess taken from 10:35 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's call the meeting back
to order, it we can. Next item for consideration is Item
Number 5, consider and discuss request from the County
Engineer and/or County Attorney to communicate with

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Wiedenfeld Water Works reyarding restoration of individual
properties in county right-of-way. Commissioner Williams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This may sound like
it's pick-on-Charlie day. It's not intended to be that_ way.
However, I have a situation out in Precinct 2 in Verde Park
Estates where Wiedenfeld Water Works dug up the county
right-of-way and driveways and so forth, and to this date
have not been restored back, I think some six months after
we tabled a variance request from Mr. Wiedenfeld on behalf
of his water company. I keep getting calls all the time
about the fact that this right-of-way and these properties
have not been restored. I've spoken with the County
Engineer about it, Franklin, and he and I both have been out
there. Here are some pictures taken by the County Engineer
as of Friday. Is that correct?
MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was Out there last
Monday to be sure that what I was about to put on the agenda
was correct, and s~ I saw what these pictures depict myself,
and I think it's high time we get the right-of-way restored
to the condition in which it was found. And, if we cannot
get it restored, then perhaps -- if a letter from the County
Engineer can't do the trick, perhaps a letter from the
County Attorney can do the trick. That's the purpose of
this meeting on tY-ie agenda.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Let me ask a question,
Commissioner. Was -- to what depth was the water lines
installed? We did not take action on the variance request?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you ought to
direct that to the engineer. I don't know. How deep did
they finally get installed?
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, they didn't call us t_o
make an inspection, so I -- I'd have to ask Charlie and see
what depth they put it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How deep were they
installed, Mr. Wiedenfeld?
MR. WIEDENFELD: They were installed to your
requirements, and in this case, it was 42 inches deep for
the laying of 6-inch lines. Done by Guadalupe Wastewater's
24-inch rock saw. And, I was not aware that there was a
variance granted on this permit as --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was a variance
request that was denied.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Tabled.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or was tabled. It
wasn't denied, it was tabled, referred back to the County
Engineer. This was on June 26th of last year. It was
denied.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, the -- is the
issue here --
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(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is the issue here,
tYrerr, to cover this -- smooth out the covering and get
everything covered up and -- and whatever it takes to get
the right-of-way back to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Mr.
Wiedenfeld should address the Court on this issue. Come up.
MR. WIEDENFELD: Charles Wiedenfeld,
representative of Wiedenfeld Watex Works. Just to brief you
as to where we're at on -- in improvements up there, is that
we're in the Last stage of installing two 6-inch water lines
that went from the well or the elevated storage down
approximately 800 feet in some places. It utilized the
County's right-of-way, and at other places we just got
inside the owners' property easement. What you see in front
of you, probably the most flagrant problem we still have is
that in the bend of the road -- pretty good slope. In going
down that hill, we still have yet to abandon the old water
line. It -- we're still awaiting finishing of the drilling
of the well, which is -- and moving of some other equipment
up at the well site, which are beyond my control. And --
and, like I say, that drilling of the well has taken way too
long. The rig is still sitting there. But, they have --
they've had problems that drillers have.
I fully recognize that -- that going down
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that slope, there's still some boulders possibly 15, 20 feet
off the -- the road's pavement that need to be replaced
where they were, and then need to be hand-smoothed and all
that and seeded. The seed has been obtained, and it will --
the whole right-of-way, the roads and everything, will be
seeded for the remainder of all that project. That has been
hand-raked several times, and that's where we are at this
time. We have, like I say, a fire hydrant that is just
inside the comity right-of-way, and -- and an area right
there that we have -- we have the pipes exposed. It's up on
the side of a -- a Yiill, next to the fence. I don't believe
we're going to have any traffic problems there. And, again,
that -- that tie-in is going to happen all at the same time,
when the well is complete and the equipment up at the well
site, in order t~ uuL have people out of water for the most
minimal period.
The benefit the bounty's getting in this
project is now you have a clean right-of-way. "You have
water lines Lhat are going to be taken out that were
5 inches deep that y'all couldn't actually put any -- any
kind of a -- a berm or drainage on the side of it, because
you would have been hitting the water line. And, so, this
is about 800 feet of -- of abandoned, and this will be
removed in some sections, the mast shallowest portions
there, tYiaL I think then it will benefit the County in those
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regards.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Realizing that you
don't have control of all the schedule that you talked
about, what would be your estimate now for completion of all
the work and -- and I realize it's an estimate, but what --
what would be your estimate now for all of the reseeding and
everything, finished, done?
MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, optimistically, the
well driller says he's going to be finished this week, but
I've heard that for the last three months, so I'm not going
to say anything. I have scheduled for the -- the equipment
swap over up at the well site; the other should be this
week. And, I -- having decent weather, I would think two
weeks, this would -- this will be all gone away.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My question,
following up on Commissioner Griffin's, Charlie, is that if
you're having problems relating to equipment or whatever you
need to complete the job -- and I guess what you're
referencing has to do with the fire hydrant and where you're
going to cross the road, put new pipe; is that correct?
MR. WIEDENFELD: I'm -- there's no more road
crossings. I'm tying into an existing line that's already
crossing Lhe road, so --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, my question has
t~ do with all this erosion that's taking place above the
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fire hydrant, all of these rocks and boulders and so forth
which are still cluttering the right-of-way. And, the calls
I get are from people whose driveways they say you cut and
didn't restore to the condition that you found them. Those
are all above this area, and so I need to hear from you what
is the reasonable time that you will take care of these
issues above the fire hydrant, and how long will it take you
to fill in the trenches in the area of the fire hydrant?
That's what I need to hear.
MR. WIEDENFELD: I've got a letter from a
customer -- I guess a neighbor to the person that
Mr. Williams has been getting most of his complaints from.
It's sealed. I do not know what it is, but she was willing
to submit something, and it addresses the -- I feel,
addresses the condition of the road prior to and after my
construction, in order to get a -- just -- like I said, I
don't know what it is, but I'm submitting it to the Court.
And --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is to us?
MR. WIEDENFELD: But I know in verbal talking
with her in the past, she had indicated that the road
conditions were a whole lot better than what they were prior
to any of the construction. So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Williams,
has -- has the County Engineer contacted Mr. Wiedenfeld and
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asked him about a time frame of restoring the county
right-of-way?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Franklin, have you --
tell us what -- where you are in that, Franklin.
MR. JOHNSTON: Well, as I rer_all, we had
talked a couple times. I think we had sent him a memo and
talked to him on the phone a time or two.
MR. WIEDENFELD: I have yet to receive any
written correspondence -- written correspondence as to the
condition or that it does not meet county standards, the
construction. Other than we have had verbal communication
with that r_orner down there where you see that -- and I
admit that there are some boulders that are off on the side.
And, again, the reason it's there is 'cause there's a water
line that is just inches under the soil, and thus I'm
planning, when I abandon it hopefully in the next two weeks,
that that pipeline will come out, and thus there will be --
then we can restore that whole piece of property in that
area.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner, let me make a
suggestion, if I can.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Surely.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we just determine
right now that we'll put this back on the agenda in 30 days?
And, if the situation has been alleviated, then it won't
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need to come back. It it hasn't, then we'll put it on, with
the understanding that we'll ask the County Attorney to take
whatever action is necessary in order to make sure that the
right-of-way is restored.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds reasonable to
me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That makes sense.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thirty days.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, ma'am? Come forward and
address us, please.
MS. PERSON: My name is Shirley Person, and
my husband and I wrote that letter. And, I have no love
lost for Charlie. We've been fighting since '94. But I
know for a fact that Mr. Persell's drive where -- where his
water meter is at, the school bus turns around there every
year, all year round. And, when it rains, his driveway
there by the -- the water meter, which is what Mr. Persell
is complaining about, I'm sure, is the same as it has been
for the past four years. He's never done anything to his
driveway. Charlie has improved our roadway. We tried for
four years to get the County to come out and cut the -- the
trash down so you could see up around the corner, and we
never could get them to do it. And, we've called and
complained, but nothing was ever done. Charlie has improved
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the roadway there. It's not his fault that it's raining.
It's not his fault that it's muddy. The boulders had to
come out to lay the line; there's no other way that he could
lay the line, but you can't get a -- something in there to
pick the boulders up without getting it stuck at this point,
you know. Charlie is trying to improve our water system up
there. He put us in a fire hydrant so that our insurance
would go down. We're closer to it. The water tower's
sitting in my front yard. It's not his fault that the
drillers have lost their drilling bit or whatever else it is
down in them holes, and they had to cap the well and then
move over there and drill another one. It's not his fault.
Although 1'd like to blame him for it.
(Laughter.)
MS. PERSON: Hopefully, we will have a better
quality of water with this new well. He's only trying to
improve on what we have. That's all I really have to say.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONEK BALDWIN: 't'hank you,
Mrs. Person.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not my purpose
to create a neighborhood spat here, but I think the Judge's
suggestion is valid. We'll put it back on --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Bring it back in 30 days.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- in 30 days.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Charlie.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Nert item is Item Number 6,
consider and discuss the request for reduction of County
registration during Rabies Vaccination Drive February 3rd to
17th. Our Animal Control Officer, Mr. Marc Allen.
MR. ALLEN: It's time for our annual Rabies
Drive again. I'm here to ask the Court if we can reduce
the -- the registration fee from $5 -- or $2 down to $1
during this period of time, from February 3rd to
February 17th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve
reducing the County registration fee durinq Rabies
Vaccination Drive February 3rd to 17th, from $5 to $1.
MR. ALLEN: Thank you.
DODGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are the -- are the
vets coming together to give reduced --
MR. ALLEN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- prices again this
year?
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MR. ALLEN: I'm here representing all the
veterinarians.
	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, cool.
	JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in Lavor, raise your right hands.
	(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
	JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
	(No response.)
	JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. If the Court
will indulge	me, I think we could kind of skip over some of
these that d	on't Have people waiting on us.
	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine.
	JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go to Number 2.10,
consider and	discuss change of the 9 step -- 9/1 custodian
to the 12/1	utility maintenance for the sheriff's Department
and Jail.	
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, let's go on to
Number 11.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not mine, Buster.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's Mr. Holekamp.
Mr. Holekamp?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Still no, let's go on
Lo Number 11.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. What -- the little note
in there requesting the classification change, is there any
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questions as to how I arrived at that"? Is there any
questions about that?
DODGE HENNEKE: A question I have is
regarding budget impact.
MR. HOLEKAMP: None.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Your -- don't do that to me.
I believe your information indicates there's no budget
impact this year.
MR. HULEKHMY: That is correct.
DODGE HENNEKE: What does it have in future
years?
MR. HOLEKAMP: It should not have any,
because there would be a surplus, which I propose to put in
part-time money, because we did not have a position at the
jail this last year. And, if we leave the position as a
12/l, it would not impact my total salary budget lines, even
for next year.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court
approve the change for the 9/1 custodian to the 1~/1 utility
maintenance for Sheriff's Department and Jail. Any
questions or comments? Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is, I mean,
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what are you losing to make up this difference? I mean,
you're obviously -- I mean --
MR. HOLEKAMP: Losing a custodian position to
qet a maintenance custodian position.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But, you're going
to be losing a 9/1 and gaining a 12/1.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How does that not cost
more in future years?
MR. HOLEKAMP: There is $9,000 in salary Tor
-- without a position at the jail.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Part-time. That's
part-time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're going to
reduce your part-time in future years?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all I wanted.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: As soon as he said
that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now you're on the
record.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We worked an agreement.
We have trustees and that doing most of the cleaning and
maintenance at the jail, the way I think it should have
always been, which has helped alleviate some of Glenn's
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maintenance problems.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(NO response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you,
Glenn.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 11,
consider and discuss authorizing Sheriff to organize
committee to propose long-range master plan for the Kerr
County Sheriff's Office. Sheriff Hierholzer.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll make it real quick.
The Sheriff's Office has never developed a long-range master
plan for budgetary purposes or growth purposes, and I feel
it's definitely needed, something that we've needed for a
long time. We have some serious problems with record
management, record retention, how we're going to solve those
problems in the future, that definitely will impact future
budget considerations and that. And I just think, on
growth, with the new census coming out and everything else,
we really need to start looking at some long-range plans.
What I would like to propose is that I, as
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Sheriff, would have the authority to appoint two members to
this committee, who would most likely be law enforcement
members, maybe from D.P.S., maybe from Kerrville P.D.,
somebody that has some -- some good law enforcement
background. And then would I like to ask each Commissioner
and the County Judge to appoint one person each to the
committee from your respective districts and overall to help
us. That would cover your interest in where we're going,
but we'd have a good balance of developing a long-range plan
for the department.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long do you think
this committee should deliberate, and when would you want
them to report back?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not having done this
before, I really don't know. I'd like to see who all the
appointments are first, and have an organizational-type
meeting, set that up with those appointments and let them --
let them see what we have out there. We could take a little
bit of time, see exactly where we are, where we've been, so
that we could work together in developing one. I'd like to
have it in place for this budget year, but 1 just don't know
at this point. Depending on the make-up of the committee
how that would work.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good idea.
I just think -- the only comment i would have would be to
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put together a very specific, you know, timeline chart; what
do you charge -- what do you want the committee to do? I
think it's a good idea, and 1 appreciate you coming to us
and getting representatives from each precinct.
SHERIFF HIERHULZER: 'Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: When would you like to have
-- assuming that we adopt this, when would you like to have
the Commissioners Court representatives identified for --
for --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to have that in
the next few days, this week sometime, to where we could
really start as soon as possible to where they could contact
me next week or something.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anybody else have any --
COMMISSIONER WILLlAMS: Meaning it would be
on the next Commissioners Court agenda for appointment? Is
that what you're suggesting'?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't know if
you need -- I just need representatives that y'all would
approve, to where I could go ahead and start meeting with
them and we could go ahead and start working, and not
necessarily have it back on another court agenda.
JUDGE HENNEKE: What the Sheriff is
suggesting is that, by establishinq this committee, we are
authorizing each Commissioner and myself to appoint someone,
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and the Sheriff is saying he would like to have those
appointments by, let's say, a week from today?
SHERI F'h' HlERHOLZER: That would be great.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So that he can then have the
first organizational meeting. It's something that would not
necessarily have to come back to Court, although I'm sure
the Sheriff would report back to us as to the makeup of the
committee, just for our information, either by letter or by
coming back to the Court.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct.
JUDGE HENNEKE: In doing --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have already turned
my appointment in to the Sheriff. Of course, that's why
we're Number 1. Judge, I move that we authorize the Sheriff
to organize a committee to prepare a lonq-range master plan
for the Kerr County Sheriff's Department.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I presume that motion
includes authorizing the Sheriff to appoint two and each
Commissioner and the County Judge to appoint one member?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your assumption is
correct, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
DODGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court
authorize the Sheritf to organize a committee to prepare a
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long-range master plan for the Kerr County Sheriff's Office,
the committee to be comprised of two members appointed by
the Sheriff and one member appointed by each Commissioner
and by the County Judge. Any further questions or comments?
If not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number
12, consider and discuss authorizing Sheriff's Office to
apply to the Bureau of Justice for a Vest Partnership Grant.
Sheriff?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What this is, I think
y'all will see, I'm very much in favor of applying for
grants and trying to qet grants to help the Department out
in financial ways that the County, you know, would really be
putting too much on. We have a large number of bulletproof
vests that are outdated, have expired. They are what they
call a "Class 2" type, which will not stop high-powered
rifles or things like that. What I'm proposing is enough in
this grant to purchase 20 new bulletproof vests for patrol
officers that are out there -- these are the most updated
and a class of vests that are lightweight, where they're not
uncomfortable to wear, but they will stop -- they have the
stopping power of higher-caliber weapons than what our
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officers are currently wearing. The -- it is a matching
fund grant, where the Department of Justice will pay
50 percent. The Department has to pay the other SO percent,
and where I'm proposing to get that -- that 50 percent that
we're responsible for is, we did receive an $11,000 grant
last month that is currently -- we have the money in the
budget now, or in the -- in the Sheriff's Office now to pay
for the remaining 50 percent that we would have to pay for,
so it would not be any cost to the County.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the other grant?
Was it to purchase equipment?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Purchase equipment.
That's what it was intended for, and we started out by --
we've had two of those grants. One, we purchased
30-some-odd new portable radios for our new system,
hopefully, that will come up neat Commissioners Court. Thi=
will allow me to finish purchasing those portable radios,
which I don't need but about four or five more, and will
still leave us more than enough to -- to pay the 50 percent
of this grant.
COMMISSIONER LET2: So moved
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second, with a
comment. That the Sheriff is fulfilling promises to the
community to qo out and get grants, which he talked about
that numerous times in his campaign, and we are seeing a man
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of integrity, a man of his word.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court authorize
the Sheriff's Department to apply to the Bureau of Justir_e
for a Vest Partnership Grant. Any questions or comments?
If not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(NO response.)
DODGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item number
13, consider and discuss authorizing the Sheriff's Office to
apply for a grant from AACOG.
SHERIF@' HIERHOLZER: This is an AACOG grant
proposal that we're asking -- when we received the
~80-something-thousand-dollar grant to pay for the School
Resource Officers, which they are all in place and all doing
their functions now, that grant pays for only the salaries
of those officers. It does not pay for equipment or
training. The -- and we're required to send those officers
through some School Resource training, and that
amount that's coming up in March that we have to send them
to is about $950 per officer. It's going through a
week-long training that's required. But I also would like
to, at the same time, apply for enough funds in that -- this
total grant amount is $35,000, which will give them laptop
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computers, it will give them a display-type deal where they
can use a projector that's hooked up to the laptops to give
equipment that will definitely help and benefit those
officers in teaching those classes at the schools. Again,
there is no matching funds on this grant; we're applying for
the full amount.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many do you think
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The actual projection
type is between $7,000 and $10,000, depending on what you
want. Then the training for each year after that, you're
talking $450 each. The laptop computers, if you get
top-of-the-line, which we'll just have to look at what we
get, you're talking about between $2,000 and $3,000 on
those. And then there's going to be some other training
schools that we'll want to be able to send these people to.
And, as y'a11 saw on the bills this morning, it's not just
the tuition of the school, itself, that costs us a lot of
money; it's also the hotel reservations and stay. So, what
we have projected out is $35,000 to cover most of this
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stuff.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, if you were
to get the grant, would you -- do you plan to let our
resident expert on the left down here take a look at the
type of equipment you had in mind, see if it's what you
really need or if there's a better model at a lesser cost?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Definitely.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In addition to that, I'll
make basically the same comment, that we need to -- even
though this is a grant, your department needs to make sure
it tits in with the overall County purchasing of equipment
of this nature so that it wouldn't -- when you decide you
don't need it or may get something new, it can go somewhere
else and --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, this is definitely
tied totally to the School Resource Officers, and the whole
thing there is the grant that provided the officers does not
provide any equipment or training. I'm trying to get the
best equipment so we can teach the kids in the school and
use it appropriately.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: County Judge signs
this?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN
I make the motion that
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we authorize the Sheriff's Office to prepare the grant
and -- and authorize County Judge to sign same.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court
authorize the Sheriff's Office to apply for a grant from
AACOG fur tLaining purposes for the S.R.O.'s, and authorize
County Judge to sign same. Any further questions or
comments? It nut, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All ~ppused, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is
Item Number 14, consider and discuss authorizing Sheriff's
Department l.u apply to tkie Peterson Foundation for a grant.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is another grant
that is paid fox totally iL we yet the giant. There's no
matching funds on the County. But, what this is for is
somethinq I feel the Department definitely needs. We have
1,100 square miles in the county, and sometimes three
officers on duty at a time. They may be 50 miles apart or
whatever. What this grant will cover is the purchase and
placement of video cameras and equipment inside each patrol
car, which these are not just your normal video cameras that
you can buy at the store for $500 or $600. This is a VHS
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unit that the actual components of it are locked in a locked
box mounted in the trunk of the vehicle.
The camera itself is mounted by the
windshield off the -- the roof of the vehicle. It has a
remote control, that every time they turn on the red lights,
the camera comes on. It also has an internal microphone
that is mounted inside the vehicle to record everything,
conversations in the vehicle, and it has one that the
officer carries with him that is carried on the side and
mounted to his shirt. The microphone equipment not only can
come on when the officer wants it to come on, when he makes
a stop, but if we're at a family violence situation, patrol
car's parked out front, the officer is in the house and
things get a little bit uncontrolled in the residence or
whatever during family violence, he can flip his remote
control and it will record all that audio going on inside
the house on just an audio track on that equipment. That
does not record the visual, 'cause the car is out in the
street, but it does record the audio.
I think, one, it will demand more
professionalism by the officers, because you do have to
watch what you say and how you act. And, two, it will
definitely decrease the amount of court appearances we are
making and the cases that get backlogged in the courts,
because, you know, a picture's worth a thousand words. It's
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kind of the same. If you have it on video, it's yoiny to
save us time. Plus -- and I hope and pray this never
happens, but if we do have an officer hurt seriously or
injured in the line of duty while he's out there when his
backup's, you know, 50 miles away or somethiny, we hopefully
will have some documentation on where to go to solve that
type of offense. The total grant amount is $92,000 --
$92,925, and that is for 25 of those units for the patrol
cars.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My only comment is
that I'm certainly in favor of all these things, but I just
want to remind the Commissioners Court that, at some point,
these laptop computers and video equipment will break down,
and Kerr County owns those things and we'll be -- when he
comes back and says, "We need to replace these things,"
don't forget where they came from.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Jannett?
MS. PlEPER: I have a comment to make in
relation to this, and I don't know if the Sheriff is aware
of it. Once he gets videos in his vehicles and his deputies
make a stop for D.W.I., any vehicle that has a video in it,
there is an automatic $25 assessed on that court cost for
the video fee, and then this would help for his upkeep on
the videos.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's mainly replacing
the tapes. These use VHS tapes, just the same thing you use
in your VCR at home. The reason is, the cost of those tapes
is a lot shorter -- or a lot smaller than the cost for the
8-millimeters and different tape equipment like that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would the technology
cominq -- I mean, do they make them on disk, like --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I haven't seen any of
those yet, but I'm sure somebody's out there working on it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- DVD things?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Put it on DVD. In
fact, they're coming out with some very small ones.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he gets a
digital-type camera, that's a possibility, if they become
digitized.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It may be one of these
things that, you know, you may look into decreasing the
number and maybe increasing the type of camera, try to get
the current technology. A lot of VHS is going to be going
obsolete before too long.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You may be right, but in
patrol vehicles, a lot of it isn't. This is the most
up-to-date they have at this time. These -- this equipment
is a little over $3,600 each, for each vehicle.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the
Commissioner makes a good point. You know, if you get -- if
you get VHS-type cameras and you're dealing with film, then
you're talking about other equipment that has to process or
just -- or show the pictures for you all the way though.
You can't run them as a r_amera. But, if you were to get the
digitized types or digitized cameras, you can feed right
directly into the computer, get the image up on a screen.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The more up-to-date are,
like, your 8-millimeter and that minicam. The thing is the
cost per time of the tape running. The VHS is about -- I
think it's something like 32 cents per hour, where, compared
to the other ones, it's $1, $2 per hour. On the cost of
maintaining -- 'cause once we start doing this, I put that
much -- that many cameras in vehicles, the cost of the
tapes, themselves, is going to be, you know, in my opinion,
pretty significant. Then I'm going to have to budget for
it. Plus, you want to be able to reuse those tapes after a
while. These are 8-hour tapes that we're talking about in
these, to where it will constantly be recording different
deals. They don't have to change it out every time. Change
it at the end of the shift or do whatever, and keep things
on record.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the projected life
of these units? Ten years? Five years?
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: About 10 years.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Purchase would be
through the State? Or --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We went around -- no, we
went around through a number of different vendors to see
what -- and agencies to figure out what they were using,
what they liked, because there are all different types. The
price we got was from a vendor.
JUDGE HENNEKE: This will have to be bid
unless it's through a State-approved vendor.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree, it would have
to, but I've got to apply for --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Unless it's through a
State-approved vendor, if it's on the State-approved list.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the beauty of
that. You qet a good price and you don't have to compete
it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questionst
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that the
Court authorize the Sheriff's Department to file a grant
application with the Hal and Charlie Peterson Foundation for
a grant to cover the cost of equipping our Sheriff's
Department auto fleet with video cameras. You're saying --
I'm taking time out. You're saying an exact amount of
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$92,9257 Why don't we just leave that blank, let him file
the -- in the court order, should we authorize an exact
amount?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have the grant
application filled out, which the Judge would sign, and it
is for $92,925.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For $92,925.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion made by Commissioner
Williams, second by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court
authorize the Sheriff's Department to apply to the Hal and
Charlie Peterson Foundation for a grant in the amount of
$92,925, to be used to purchase video units for each patrol
vehicle. Any further questions or comments?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And to allow you to sign
the same.
JUDGE HENNEKE: And allow me to sign the
same. If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
DODGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you,
Sheriff.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank y'all. This is
the AACOG original, and this is the Peterson Foundation.
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The bulletproof vests is an online thing.
DODGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's take up Item 17,
consider and discuss approving an order establishing a teen
curfew in Kerr County and set a public hearing on the same.
A little bit of history on this. As required by -- by law,
the Kerr County Juvenile Board appointed a Kerr County
Juvenile Advisory Council composed of 9 members. Those
members are Phil Demasco, representing public schools; David
Motley, representing prosecutors; Dr. Lisa Rouse; Dr. Jaime
Quintanilla, as a juvenile psychiatric physician; Harold
Danford; Tricia Hamil; Macy McKinney, who is now the pastor
of the Center Point Methodist Church; Wayne Este; and Mary
Armistead.
The Kerr County Juvenile Advisory Council has
met for over a year, discussed a number of ways and programs
to assist the Kerr County Juvenile Board in addressinq the
problems of our young people. And, one of the issues they
debated and discussed, with input from the Sheriff's
Department, Kerr County Police Department, Kerrville Police
Department, and the school districts, was the idea of a teen
curfew. We -- you all may not know it, but the City of
Ingram has had in place for a number of -- a couple years a
teen curfew, and it was discussed with people from Ingram,
the effect of that curfew, in making their decision. The
Kerr County Advisory Council unanimously recommended to the
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Kerr County Juvenile Board consideration of the been curfew,
Kerr County Juvenile Board voted unanimously to recommend it
to the Commissioners Court, which is why it is beLure us
today.
In your packets and handout this morning are
letters from each of the three main school districts,
meaning Kerrville Independent School District, Ingram
Independent School District, and Center Point Independent
School District, supporting the idea of a teen curfew,
Additionally, I be]ieve the Sheriff is here today to speak
on the issue, as well as Mr. Stanton from the KCrx County
Juvenile Probation Department. And, Mr. Este is here and
Mr. Motley, as members of the Kerr County Juvenile Advisory
Council. Wayne, do you have anything you want to add at
this time, sir?
MR. ESTE: I don't have anything prepared,
but you know I could talk at any time. You know that. When
we started with this committee, as the Judge said, over a
year ago, we had no direction whatsoever, and that's }iuw
lots of good committees start. But, one thing we did find,
after talking with a number of law enforcement people, that
there is a need for a curfew -- teen curfew in the county.
Not to go out and harass kids, but to give law enforcement
another tool to work with when those kids are driving around
at 2 o'clock in the morning looking for something w do in
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Kerr County. Now, I've driven through Kerr County at
2 o'clock in the morning, and I can't find anything to do.
So, you know, when -- when you find something to do at
2 o'clock in the morning in Kerr County, it's usually not
that good. So, it gives -- it gives the officers a tool.
I've interviewed personally a number of -- of
lava enforcement officers, and every one oT them has said
yes, yes, yes, we need this. I talked with Rowan Zachry in
Ingram, and, of course, as you know, it was stated earlier,
Ingram does have a teen curfew. And, again, it has given
them the tool to stop kids along the way and -- and, you
know, when you're talking about below 17, as Rowan Zachry
says, we have picked up kids in the street as young as 9 acid
10 years old at 1:00, 2 o'clock in the morning. There --
there are areas of the community where this is more of a
problem than other areas, but it is a community-wide
problem -- or countywide problem. And, I just -- as I
said, I didn't come prepared with anything, so 7'l1 end it
there. Thank you.
~ CGMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wayne, let me ask
you --
MR. ESTE: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIGNER BALDWIN
Ingram group?
Are you part of the
MR. ESTE: The Ingram group? No, sir, I live
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does Ingram have -- I
understand that, but does Ingram -- Ingram has one already?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Has a curfew.
MR. ESTE: Yes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The City of Ingram has an
existing curfew, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Zs it the same thing
that is outlined in this document?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes.
MR. ESTE: Very close.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We modeled this document on
the Ingram one, because theirs works and because we needed
consistency throughout the county.
MR. ESTE: And, of course --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City of Kerrville?
MR. ESTE: That's the hope. That is the
hope. And, we have -- we have received support from several
law -- several law enforcement officers in Kerrville, tkiat
this is something that they would like to see as well. Now,
it has to go through the same process as I'm sure it has to
go through here, but it's -- it is in their favor, yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, this would be in
all unincorporated areas?
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct.
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MR. ESTE: In the county.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My only problem -- I'm
sorry, Judge, did you have something else?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, do you have anything
else for Wayne?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Ncw, Kevin, do
you want to make some comments?
MR. STANTON: For this -- fcr this grant --
or not for the -- for this proposal, I did some research on
the past referrals to the Juvenile Probation Department, and
within the last -- I went back as far as the last three
months, and our referrals come out to about ~8 percent of
the referrals that we received over the last three months
fall within the curfew hours, which means that the offenses
occurred between the hours for which the curfew would be in
effect. I think that equaled out to about -- I think it was
about 107 referrals in the last three months that we
received that fell within the hours of the curfew. So, that
would -- I think that's a good sign that there are -- there
is a need in the community for this curfew, something
that -- there are kids out there committing criminal
cffenses during the hours the curfew would be in effect.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see Mr. Holt over
I
there from Center Point School District in Lfie audience.
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Harry, do you have some thoughts on this?
JUDGE HENNEKE: I was just going to get to
him. Harry, do you have anything you want to say at this
time, sir?
MR. HOLT: Main thing I cau add is, I have
worked at night and I have seen myself young kids, as young
as 8, 9 years old, on the streets at all hours of the night,
I've had the opportunity to manage a convenience store there
in Center Point where I had to close it at night and open it
in the mornings and stuff, and as early as 5 o'clock in the
morning, they're out running the streets. And, I do support
it myself, and I think it's something that the county needs.
DODGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Harry. I
appreciate it. Sheriff?
SHERIFF HCERHVLZER: Well, being, I guess,
the chief law enforcement officer, but also being a parent
of four kids -- thank goodness, three of them are above the
age this curfew would affect now. But, I have mixed
feelings. For law enforcement, it would be the best tool we
could have to -- to help combat some -- some problems we do
have, such as, you know, the cemetery incident where we had
over $120,000 in damage. You know, the curfew would
probably definitely take care of some of that. It will give
the street officer more -- more tools or more ability to be
able to deal with kids that are out late where they
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shouldn't be. But I also don't like the idea that we're
And it will also cause some problems as far
as -- I know the kids are exempt from school activities,
coming back from a football game or a church activity, but
it will not prevent their getting stopped and detained long
enough to be able to find out where they're coming from and
that, which could be an interference on their part, but you
know it's goinq to happen. I think there's got to be a lot
of common sense in how it's written and how it's applied. I
think that if our -- if the County does it and before they
finally enact it, I think it needs to go right along
hand-in-hand with the one Ingram has and the one the City of
Kerrville does. Because if the County does one and the City
of Kerrville does not, the County's going to be pushing the
kids inside the city limits, and if City of Kerrville does
one and the County doesn't, then the City's going to be
pushing all the party kids and all into this small group of
kids out in the county, and so it's going to create a burden
on either one as -- if everybody doesn't adopt it county-
wide. It's the only way I think it would work effectively.
And, you know, my bottom line is, I hate to
see more and more laws keep getting enacted. I think we
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have a good juvenile system and I think we have, for the
most part, a lot of real good kids. And, unfortunately,
there's just a small group that may cause all of us to have
to rethink the way we do things.
JUDGE HENNEKE: You're being an economist on
us here. The bottom line --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm bouncing back and
forth.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Is the Sheriff's Department
in favor of the notion of a curfew?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For law enforcement
purposes, yes, we are in favor of it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I totally agree with you that
this is something that it's regrettable we have to do, but
it's in the line of the burn ban and some of the other
things that we have to face. You know, one of the young
people that I sent to the Texas Youth Commission last
Thursday was a 15-year-old, 15 years old and had 16
referrals to the Kerr County Juvenile Probation Department.
Now, keep in mind, we don't start getting referrals until
they're 10, so this young person had 16 referrals in five
years.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, in the same tone,
the curfew's not going to help a kid like that. It's the
parents that are the problem of that kid.
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DODGE HENNEKE: Bur, it's -- one thing it's
going to do is get the parents involved, because when the
child's picked up, the parents are going to get a phone
call, and the parent's going to have to come down to the --
at least initially, the Justice of the Peace court and
address the issue. It's going to give the parent a basis to
get involved if they want to. If they don't want to, we --
we can't help them. The other thing it's going to do is
protect some of our local merchants.
COMMISSIONER. LETZ: It will protect our
merchants.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some of them. Like I
say, depends on getting the parents involved. My wife being
a teacher in the Kerrville school system, you know, they
have what they call ARDs or counseling meetings with kids
where they try and get the parents to be there to really get
involved with the kid's school practices, and I'm sure the
school people will admit a lot of times the parents won't
even show up for those kind of -- type of things. But, I
think it will put the parents on notice, because they will
have to appear in justice court for that. And, you know,
there are some situations -- I, as a patrol officer, years
ago got in one of the worst pursuits I'd ever been in that
was started about 3 o'clock in the morning, and ended after
running through a fence and everything else on top of Medina
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Mountain. Had two wanted felons in the front of the
vehicle, and in the back seat, laying on the floorboard --
and this is a pursuit that went over 120 miles an hour out
16 South. In the backseat on the floorboard were three
kids, the oldest of which was 11, and they were not
relatives of the people driving. They were all out running
around, doing donuts on the golf courses and getting into
criminal mischief stuff. And, it -- that shouldn't have
ever happened. Those kids should have never been out. So,
I -- you know, it's from -- going from a parent to the chief
law enforcement officer. From a parent, I hate to see it
have to be done. From the chief law enforcement officer of
the county, it's -- unfortunately, it's past due.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think -- I view it
-- I see it as a further erosion of personal rights,
individual freedoms, and parental responsibility. And I
think the more this society goes down this road, the less
responsible our kids are going to become. And I think that
it's just -- we're going in the wrong direction. And, this
same argument -- this same thing, you can also say we
shouldn't have any guns in this society. Forget the
Constitution, forget freedom, forget personal rights.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the only other
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thing I would say to that, Commissioner, is one thing
that -- that we really need to look at in Kerr County that's
very, very important right now, we have some want-to-be gang
members. We have some -- some, you know, potential gangs.
We do not have near the problems San Antonio does. I think
it's starting to migrate this way, and this is a way of
saying we also have zero tolerance on that activity; that we
will get out at night and start dealing with that before we
have some bad problems.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that,
Sheriff, and also agree with some of what Commissioner Letz
said. I think, you know, if they break the law, put them in
jail and lock them up and get them out of -- get them out of
our hair. But, my problem with it is -- is a personal
problem. 1 have a son that's in high school. And, to give
you an example, about two weeks from now, he will be coming
in from a track -- a soccer game, soccer match, probably
at -- after hours, and then a couple hours later, he will be
leaving out oT here with the track team during these hours
here. And -- you know, and I know -- I feel secure that
he's -- you know, I understand that he may be stopped and
asked some questions and detained for a few moments, and I
understand that and I don't have any problem with them doing
their job. But, if he's harassed in any way, you're going
to have an angry Commissioner on your hands that does have
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some --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER; But --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me finish, Rusty;
quit interrupting people -- that is going to have some
diplomatic attitude about it, but you're going to have a
madder-than-hell daddy on your hands that doesn't have any
diplomacy.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I may comment on
that, the thing about that, Commissioner, is it wouldn't
matter if he is harassed; it's not going to matter whether
it's a teen curfew law or whether it's any other law
violation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'that's exactly right.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It is an officer not
doing his duties the way he's supposed to do them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, that won't affect
the teen curfew, okay?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Another thing --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Let him finish.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He interrupted me, Judge;
I can interrupt him if I want to. If he's going to be
courteous, I'll be courteous. If he's not, I won't.
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: `t es, sir. I apologize
for interrupting you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that same point,
though, you get some kid who's pulled over, only -- say,
Jesse or my nephew or something -- my nephew's over 17, but
say he was under 17. Say he smarts off to the officer,
which he shouldn't do. He's being pulled over for doing
nothing wrong. Maybe he has a little bit of an attitude,
which there's nothing criminal; he shouldn't be penalized
for that. The officer decides to harass him. Who's at
fault? You're -- to me, you're creating a situation which,
you know, is not ideal. And I just go back to basic -- I
mean, this is something that I would imagine is going to go
through one way or the other. I won't vote for it.
Hopefully we can modify a lot of the provisions that I think
are very inaccurate or wrong right now, one being that the
Comfort School District is totally left out of it, which
takes up a large portion of the -- of this county. Just a
minor problem.
But, anyway, I just think that this is an
invasion of parental responsibility, invasion of personal
rights, and 1 just don't like to see our society going down
that road. That's just a personal belief of mine. I think
every time we take more rights away from the public, we're
going to make it worse down the road, because it's more
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irresponsibility in the future, and I just think Lkiat ycu
have to draw a line somewhere. Granted, there may be --
and, first of a11, I don't see that there's that much --
I've never heard until now that there's that much of a
problem on this. I mean, the curfew issue. The kids that
are out at cemeteries or doing vandalism, there are already
criminal penalties for those actions, so what you're
stopping -- you F:now, you may be able to prevent a little
bit of that, but basically you're creating a situation where
kids that are doing nothing wrong are being pulled over by
the police, which I think is a bad precedent.
JUDGE HENNEKE: You have to look at the
timeframe that we're talking about.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
DODGE HENNEKE: We're not talking about 8
o'clock in the evening, not talking about 10 o'clock in the
morning on Saturday. We're talking between 11 o'clock at
night and 6 o'clock in the morning on a weekday, and
midnight and h o'clock in the morning on a weekend, And,
the problem this is really designed to address is the 13- or
14-year-olds who are walking the streets, either in Center
Point or in Kerrville or in Hunt -- not that many of them in
Hunt, but there may be a few of them --
MR. ESTE: We don't have sidewalks.
JUDGE HENNEKE: -- at 2 o'clock in the
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morning, looking for something t~ do. And, at 2 o'clock in
the morning, when you're walking by the flea market on
Schreiner Street or the Beer Barn or something like that,
there is really nothing you can find to do at o'clock in
the morning when you're on foot that's constructive. And,
those parents, by the fact that the kids are out there at
that time of night, have already demonstrated that they
either don't care, or they don't know how to effectively
supervise those kids. And, this is not a proactive measure.
It is a reactive measure. I -- I, myself, am -- am, quite
frankly, surprised by the statistics that the Juvenile
Probation Department has brought forth. I mean, 58 percent
of all referrals are during the hours of this curfew. That
is not an insignificant sum. I would have expected
somewhere around 35 percent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would have thought it
would be higher, personally.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, this is -- this is not an
effort to infringe upon good kids. My son's going to be
affected too when he comes home at spring break, and he's
not going to like it, but I'm going Lo tell him that's the
law and you're going to go along with it. I have parents
who come to my court who say, "I don't know how to tell them
not to." Well, now they may have the ability to say, you
know, "You can't go out at 11 o'clock at night on Wednesday,
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because it's against the law." Kevin?
I think this is giving the parents another tool to either --
when the kids are -- when they say, °NO, you can't go," and
they qo anyway and then they get pulled over or stopped for
curfew violation, this is going to give those parents the
opportunity to come in and express their concern, and be
able to -- for us to take an active role in trying to reduce
some of the crimes or some of the things that can happen
further down the road, you know. And, you would really be
surprised at the number of phone calls we get of just
parents wanting their kids to be put on probation when
they've never done anything wrong.
JUDGE HENNEKE: 1 think we all recognize that
the most effective law enforcement is the earliest law
enforcement, particularly with juveniles.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The last comment I have,
and I'll sit down -- and I do apologize for interrupting
you, too, but I agree. That's why I'm saying, for law
enforcement purposes, this would be the best thing that
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could happen because of the problems we're having. For a
parent or something, I think there are some questions about
it. Hopefully, responsible kids in that age group would not
be out at that time of night, as the Judge pointed out, but
it is a decision that's going to impact all of us.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Wayne, and then we'll
let you --
MR. ESTE: Commissioner Letz and the Court,
we've wrestled with this for almost a year, with this
particular recommendation, and I could honestly say that all
uiue members of the committee felt as you feel. 1 mean, you
know, we're in conservative Kerr County, and we don't want
another -- we don't want another law. Personally, I've
raised four sons, and if I said 11 o'clock, it didn't mean
11:01. And -- but that's not true of my next-door neighbor,
or the neighbors down the street. I shouldn't say my
next-door neighbor; I'm just using an example. Next door
neighbor's good -- pretty good people. Larry. So -- but
we -- we have wrestled with this, and 1 agree lUU percent
with you. I -- 100 per~~ent, and I think all nine members of
the committee agree 100 percent, we don't really want
another law, because all of us on that committee were
fantastic parents, just as, you know, I'm sure every one of
you up here is. And I have a 16-year-old also, Buster.
And, you know, when they sit there and say, "Well, I guess I
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have one year to worry about it," 1 said, "Yeah, you have
one year ro worry about it, 'cause you're going to be 17."
I don't feel -- and I've talked with Rowan Zachry over at
Ingram for a number of -- a number of times. I don't feel
that this is an imposition on children, if they are stopped.
If they say, "We're going to a track meet," or "We're going
to a speech debate" or whatever it is, it's not an
imposition. The good kids are not going to qet in trouble.
And, I agree, you }snow, I might have a 16-year-old that
might look at the officer and say, "I ain't doing anything,
man," you know, but 1 don't think that's going to
necessarily be a problem. I don't like it, but I think
we're living in the times where it's absolutely necessary.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Commissioner Williams?
CUMMISSIUN Eft W1LLlAMS: My turn, Judge?
JUDGE HENN~KE: Yes.
CUMMSSSIONER WILLIAMS: I come at this topic
from a little different point of view, although I appre~~iate
the comments of Commissioner Letz very much and Commissioner
Baldwin. And, if my son were 16 and -- or 15 or whatever,
and he had gotten himself out of control, I would be
concerned, and I would be concerned -- if he was a good kid,
which he is, I would be expressing the same concerns that
Commissioner Baldwin came out. I don't view it as -- as a
-- a regulation or a law that -- that deprives the rights.
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I view it -- or imposes something on somebody unnecessarily.
I view it more as a law enforcement tool, and as a measure
or a means to cause parents to act more responsibly toward
their own children. The Sheriff came -- started at the
beginning of his comments by saying he was for it as a law
enforcement officer, but he had concerns about it as a
parent. I understand that. That puts him right in the
middle of the issue. But, he acts responsibly as a parent.
He makes certain that his children understand what
law-abiding citizenship means. So does my colleague to the
right here. And, so, I don't view it as a denial or
deprival of rights. I view it as an opportunity for the
Sheriff's Department to -- to set kids straight who have an
opportunity to go astray, and also send a message to a
parent who is not acting in the capacity that he should
by -- by suggesting what's good and what's bad. So,
essentially, I think we need to address some of the concerns
that the other Commissioners have put before us in terms of
-- of what we do when an individual is stopped, and all
those things are of concern. Conceptually, however, I
support it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Letz, do you
have something elseY
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think I pretty much
said -- 1 mean, 1 think 1 can -- my qut feeling, like I said
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earlier, this is going to pass. I have a lot of problems
with the specific document, but I think that can be handled
out of the hearing or, you know, whenever. I mean --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just wanted
to say that I'm -- I'm just like Commissioner Letz, and I
think that he and I deal with the other side -- the
different kid than you see on that in your afternoons, and
the County Attorney does, and all you folks, y'all deal
with. We never see that type of kid. We deal with kids
that work hard and have integrity. And, with that in mind,
see, I would -- actually, I don't like the thought of -- of
the police officer being in the schools. I don't like that
thought of my child walking down a hallway in his school
with a police officer there. I really detest that.
However, I think that it's just -- we've come to those times
in Kerr County. We have arrived there, and I -- we're a
little bit too redneck for this stuff, Jon, but -- we're a
little bit behind the times, and the times have come and
those problems have arrived in our community, and we have to
do something about it.
DODGE HENNEKE: I -- that's true. I mean,
your child is involved in athletics. Mine were involved in
athletics, debate and mock trial. I'm sure Larry's son was
and Bill's son was, and they didn't have time to get in
trouble. But, this law is aimed at the kid who is walking
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down Junction Highway at 1 o'clock in the morning and walks
by a used car lot and, just for the fun of it, pulls out his
pocketknife or reaches down and picks up a nail and
scratches the sides of 19 cars. You know, if we'd have had
this law in place and had the police officer or deputy come
down before that child got to that parking lot -- that used
car lot, we might not have had that problem, and those --
the people who -- and the man who owned those cars wouldn't
have been out -- I think it was X17,000, because the child
didn't have the wherewithal to pay it back. It's
unfortunate that we have to come to this. It's unfortunate
we have to have burn bans. It's unfortunate we have to
lecture people on firearm responsibility.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, don't bring that
up.
JUDGE HENNEKE: These are the times we live
in.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, if I may, I --
1 come at this from a slightly different perspective. I'll
admit to my biases, because my three kids were raised in a
military environment, mostly living on bases where there
were always curfews. There were always curfews. But, of
course, that was much more of a nuclear family environment,
because everybody looked out for everybody else's kids, and
so -- but curfews do work. And I think that -- that while
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it takes another one of those little chips at -- at
so-called freedom, that it's really looking out for the kid.
It's not trying to punish the kid or to harass him or
anything else. It is meant to give that kid an opportunity
to understand what authority is about. And, when parents
fail, it gives them an opportunity to see what authority is
about, and so I -- I'll vote in favor of it. And we can
tweak the document, certainly, if it needs it; however, when
I look at the defenses that are listed in Paragraph C, I
think that's -- they look very good to me. I think the
document is very well crafted, but we can certainly improve
on it if we can. But it's not a bad -- it's not a bad
thing, and curfews are not something that just spring up in
2001. Curfews have gone back to the early days of our
civilization and our society, and I don't think it's an
onerous deal at all.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Motley, do you have
something you want to --
MR. MOTLEY: I think the Sheriff had
something else.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not trying to walk
out on this; I think it's very important, but I also have a
yll board meeting starting in seven minutes, so before I go,
thank you.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Enjoy your lunch.
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MR. MOTLEY: I'd like to make a couple of
comments about the proposed curfew order, and I think also
there's some questions that certain Commissioners have --
that certain Commissioners have asked that I might be able
to provide answers to. Hirst of all, this order did start
out modeled after the Court case of QUTB, Q-U-T-B, versus
City of Dallas. And, we initially had put -- pardon me --
the same hours of restriction in ours as they had in theirs,
which was 11:00 to 5:00 on a night before a school night,
and, 12:00 to 6:00 on nights preceding weekend nights or
holidays in the Dallas School District.
I talked with the Sheriff about it, and he
to be different from Ingram's, so we have now changed those
specific hour definitions to match what is in Ingram, which,
in effect, gives them an hour longer. It gives them from
midnight to 6:00 on school nights, and "1:00 to 6:00 on
Saturday and Sundays. Also, I see that it did leave out the
Comfort Independent School District. I tried to qet
everybody in there. Really, the -- the defenses provided --
I think Commissioner Griffin mentioned them. The defenses
are very broad, and that's what makes the whole thing pass
constitutional muster, according to the Fifth Circuit Court.
Any child involved in employment activity, any child on an
errand from their parents, any child with a parent, any
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school, religious, or recreational activity, any event
sponsored by a civic organization in Kerr County, those are
all defenses.
And, in Provision D under Section 2, it does
encourage the officer to -- before taking any enforcement
action, the Kerr County Sheriff's deputies should ask the
offender's age and the reason for being in the public place.
He shouldn't issue a citation or make an arrest unless he
reasonably believes that an offense has occurred and that,
based on any response, no defense in Subsection C is
present. Une of the big arguments made in the QUTB case was
that the plaintiffs were saying that they, as parents, were
being deprived of their constitutional right to parent their
children. And the Court said, in fact, the only aspe~~t of
parenting that the ordinance bears upon is the parents'
right to allow the minor to remain in public places
unaccompanied by a parent or guardian or other authorized
person during the restricted hours.
Because of the broad exemptions included in
the curfew ordinance, the parent retains the right to make
decisions regarding his or her child in all other areas.
Parents may allow the minor to remain in public so long as
he's accompanied by a parent or a guardian, or a person
who's at least 18 years of age who is authorized by the
parent to have the child, and allow the minor to attend
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acLiviLies oxyanized by a group, such as church groups,
civic organizations, et cetera. The parents may still allow
Lhe child to hold a job, perform an errand for the parent,
seek help in emergency situations. These are all normal,
you know, things that a parent might want to do.
Somebody earlier had said that it would
involve the parent. It will involve the parent, because
under Section B(2), the parent is chargeable under this
offense if the parent knowingly allows the child to remain
out after those hours in a public place and none of the
defenses apply. So, the parent may be ticketed under this
same provision, as well as the minor, or the owner of an
establishment, if you allow a minor to remain upon the
premises during curfew hours. So, it tries to attack the
problem in all the most likely areas. The -- the Attorney
General has considered this -- this provision and said that
while essentially constitutional, it may in certain
circumstances be unconstitutionally applied. For example,
if such an ordinance were enforced in a manner that -- that
had an invidious impact on members of a suspect class, the
case might well be altered. Care must therefore be taken
that the ordinance, like all others, be even-handedly
applied. And, I think we would be relying on our Sheriff's
Department to do that, to use good judgment. They have to
ask them why they are there and if they have a defense.
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They have to apply it in an even-handed manner.
It is very unlikely, in my opinion, that a
school bus would be stopped, although I -- I hear
Commissioner Baldwin saying, well, you might have one on the
way to the school function get stopped, and that is -- that
is an infringement on -- on the rights of the children.
And, the Court -- and the Fifth Circuit looked at the
infringement of the rights of the child and the parents and
such, and then weighed on the other hand the rights of the
community, and also the rights of the child to be protected
from bad activities, to be -- you know, from being led down
the -- the path of crime. And -- and, you know, I know Ann
Richards -- I don't know who she was paraphrasing, but she
said, "Nothing much good happens after 10 o'clock at night."
Fifty-eight percent of the crimes -- or the referrals to
Juvenile Probation occurred in 29 percent of the hours. I
also want to emphasize that those numbers now are a little
bit different from 11:00 to 6:00, because that's the way
ours was originally crafted, was 11:00 to 6:00, but I had to
change it to 12:00 to 6:00.
One question I might have for the Court --
the City of Kerrville and City of Ingram that the City of
Dallas never had, because in unincorporated areas, we are
affected by school holidays that would be called by any of
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six school districts. comfort, Divide, Hunt, Center Point,
Ingram, and Kerrville Independent School District all have
kids who -- in the district that live outside the city
limits, so I didn't really know how to do this. I think
most of them have the same holidays; like, last Friday I
think most of the kids had that day off for, like, stock
show. And -- but, by the way this is written now, if one
school district called a -- a holiday just for their school
district, you would have that extra hour of time for all
kids under there. And, I don't know any other way to write
it, because if you wrote it and said that, you know, only --
a holiday for the Ingram Independent School District applied
for kids, you know, who were a resident -- who were
participating in that school, that would be another
nightmare for the officer to try to enforce.
But, I guess all I wanted to say to you is
that I think that some of the concerns that were expressed
about infringement on parents' rights, if you really look at
it, all we're really trying to do by the order is we're
talking about kids that are out very late at night, no
parental supervision, no adult supervision, who ought to be
home in bed. That's all there is to it. If they're going
to worry about their schoolwork or become some kind of a
student, they're not going to do very well if they're out
running around at 3:00 in the morning or whatever without
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any supervision.
It does assist the police. I've talked to
police officers before where they had a series of -- in the
city, a series of dumpster fires, and they knew very well
this group of boys walking around were doing it. They knew
absolutely that they were doing it. There was one dumpster
fire; the boys were somewhere in the vicinity, and there was
another dumpster fire and they were somewhere in the
vicinity. But they have no authority to approach those boys
or do anything, so -- and say, "What are y'all doing out?"
They couldn't do it. And, so, this will be a tool that can
be used for that. But the whole idea, I think, is to keep
these kids home where they ought to be, and maybe their
schoolwork will improve if they get a little bit more sleep.
If y'all have any questions of me on that, I'd --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have some
questions, David, if you have a moment.
MR. MOTLEY: Sure.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1've forgotten what
the Federal Labor Standards Act says with respect to
children in school working. There are conditions that
affect that, but has that been taken into consideration
under defenses, Section 3'?
MR. MOTLEY: Well --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With regard to kids
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working aL -- a~ restaurants or whatever, and restaurants
remain open beyond curfew hours.
MR. MOTLEY: Any child who is engaged in
employment activity -- under Section C(1)(d), any child
engaged in employment activity, cr going to or returning
home from an employment activity without any detour or stop.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR.. MOTLEY: That's a defense.
~~~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. How
about just the one above it, (c), in a motor vehicle
involved in interstate travel? How about inter-county
travel as well? Or do you think the broader definition
covers it?
MR. MOTLEY: We11, you know, I -- I'm sure
there's a reason that they originally used that term in
Dallas. Now, of course if we just were talking about kids
who were not in cars, just kids on foot, you know, an
argument might well be made that we're making some sort of a
discrimination against children who have available to them,
you know, automobile transportation.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But a rural area's a
little bit different than a big metroplex.
Mk. MOTLEY: Yeah, sure iS. And I really
don't -- I tell you what, I can't really see the -- the
rationale for that defense, to be honest with you, because
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where's a kid who is unaccompanied by a parent going to be
going on -- you know, on interstate travel at 2:00 in the
morning or whatever?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Inter-city or
inter-county makes more sense than interstate, to me. My
next question has to do with (h), exercising First Amendment
rights protected by United States Constitution, freedom of
exercise of religion, freedom of speech, et cetera. You
mean I can avoid the conflict -- the curfew if I'm in the
middle of a parking lot scraping cars by saying I'm out here
praying'?
MR. MOTLEY: Well, I think you can. And I
think if you don't have a provision in there to allow the
exercise of these rights, as protected by the Constitution,
then you're going to run into some trouble overall with the
constitutionality of what they're doing, because they are
restricting a fairly substantial right. But, in order to do
so, you have to make sure that there's a need for it, and
the greater the need, you know, the more necessary the thing
is. Then you would have to craft some relief that is as
narrow as possible to address what it is you're doing. And,
one of the ways that is done is to -- one of the crafting, I
guess you'd say, or ways to narrow this is by adding
defenses. The affirmative provisions in here are not -- not
overbearinq, but -- but you do try to protect and make it
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narrow by allowing kids to go to school functions and come
home. And, I know very well the debate team -- I can tell
you the number of nights that I was up at the school at O:UU
in the morning waiting for the debate team to get home, so
it certainly happens, but that does provide a defense.
And I think the officers will get to know
this about kids, and -- and, lord, I hope -- I hope that the
kids will be aware of this and don't feel that it's a real
good idea to smart off to an officer who is a -- you know,
stopping them and asking them what the deal is, and just
tell them, "Look, I was at the debate tournament; I'm going
home." And I envision that those kids would go right,
straight home. Normally, in any event, I don't think --
this is a -- this is a Class C-type misdemeanor, and
normally you're going to be talking about getting a
citation, goinq on your way, and then if you have a
legitimate defense and such, go to court and explain it if
need be. Nobody is lookinq at trying to get after kids who
are going to legitimate functions. 'That's not the goal.
The goal is these kids that are just running around with no
supervision.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one other
question, one final question.
MR. MOTLEY: Sure.
COMMISSIUNER WILLIAMS: Under A on Page 2,
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A(2)(c), dealing with the timeframe preceding a school
holiday, is "holiday" intended also to mean days off from
school which may be caused by undue weather or other acts of
nature?
MR. MOTLEY: Well, you know, I think it would
certainly be defined that way. Of course, a child who fits
the definition in here may not know until the next morning
that school has been canceled, so I wouldn't think that that
would be an event that would allow them to stay out,
because, I mean, it's really kind of needles and pins. You
don't know whether you're going to school or you're going to
qo late until usually early the next morning. At least
that's been --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's only an hour's
difference, anyway. That's all we're talking about, the
difference between 11 o'clock and 12 o'clock.
MR. MOTLEY: Well, I'll just tell you right
now, I mean, maybe I'm a little bit overbearing as a parent,
but I -- I have a son that's soon to be 17, so he'll be out
of the coverage. I'm not going to let him be hanging out
till 1:00 in the morning anywhere. I'm not going to do it;
I don't care how old he is. And if he wants to do it, he
can set up house somewhere else. I'm not -- you know, I
don't -- you know, I think it's a pretty liberal timeframe.
The reason, again, we pushed it the other hour was to match
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what was in Ingram, to make -- to make a more enforceable
plan for the County, for the Sheriff.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple comments. One, I
mean, when you said that, but you're imposing your values as
a parent on other parents. I'm just making that point. You
said you don't have any problem with it because you think
it's okay personally. Well, you're imposing those values on
other people, and that's what I object to in this whole
concept. The other thing -- I mean, I don't really want to
go through the document right now, but just -- in Paragraph
(g), the way I read that, it's only activities that are
sponsored by Kerr County, and I think that's a real problem.
Twice it says "supervised by adults and sponsored by Kerr
County." There are numerous activities that are not
sponsored by Kerr County.
MR. MOTLEY: Well, it says a civic
organization or other similar entity that has the
responsibility for the minor, going to and from school
events, religious events --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not concerned about
the school; I'm concerned about youth soccer leagues, all
kinds of youth sports leagues that are very loose,
unofficial. They're not, you know, necessarily a sanctioned
group. That takes place primarily during the summer when
schools aren't --
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MR. MOTLEY: I think that could certainly be
added.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that needs to
be really looked at, because, you know, we talk more about
during the year with the schools and such. Well, the
summer's probably the biggest, you know, benefit that may
come from this, if there is any, and I think it really -- we
really need to work on that, because there are so many
activities, anything from team roping to --
MR. MOTLEY: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- everything that I
don't see covered right now.
MR. MOTLEY: That may be a misdraft. I
really didn't intend for any of those groups of activities
to also have to be sponsored by Kerr County, 'cause y'all
will go nuts in here sponsoring different events. And, what
I was probably trying to reflect is that school, religious,
other recreational activities supervised by adults,
activities sponsored by Kerr County. It should be along
with those, but not a -- not an overall sponsorship for
those groups, and I didn't intend that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, the other thing
is, you know, you're talking about public school districts.
There are also private schools in this county.
MR. MOTLEY: Right.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you're y~ing to do it,
they ought to be addressed equally, I would think.
MR. MOTLEY: Right. And, of course, the --
there's one on the way, and then --
COMMISSIONEK LETZ: Well, there alreai]y is
one. I guess it could have some --
MR. MOTLEY: Notre Dame, I had thought about
putting that in there. My only question is about that --
and, to me, again, this is the most difficult part of the
whole deal, for enforcement reasons. If you have -- say,
for example, Notre Darne School might have a holiday that is
-- that is not generally celebrated by the other schools.
You're going to end up with that extra time. Acrd, I thought
the way to err on that would be on the side of caution and
say, if any school district calls a holiday, them all the
kids, you }:now, would have that extra hour. I don't have
any problem adding those other -- certainly, tkre private
schools in there.
Again, my original thought was Lo say, well,
if K.I.S.D. calls a holiday, then the K.I.S.D. students
would be able to have the extra hour that night. Of course,
this also covers -- a lot of kids this is going to cover are
certainly not students at K.I.S.D. They're not itr that
school. It's just that if the school calls a holiday, that
the kid who lives in that school district would receive the
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benefit, but I cannot find any rational way to write that to
where the officer could say, well, you know, where do you go
to school? And the kid may go to Hunt, but may say he's
going to Divide because he knows Divide has some holiday
there or something from -- for one-room schools or
something. So, the way I figured it is, if any of these
schools call a holiday, it -- and there's been a move before
for us to -- to standardize the school holidays and the
county holidays. I know there's been talk about that
before. Some people have come to me from the school and
talked about that, tc try to have anything kind of at the
same time, because parents who have a -- a federal holiday
and their children don't have a holiday and such, it helps
the family to have more time together. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'T'his is just an idea. IL
seems to me to be easier if it was the same. If you push it
to 1 o'clock every day of the week, you'd probably solve a
lot of the travel problems of athletic teams and everything
else that I -- issues that I really have about kids being
stopped that shouldn't be stopped. I think most of that --
very few get home after 1 o'clock. A great number are on
the road between 11:00 and 1<^ o'clock.
MR. MOTLEY: I know what you're saying. And
I'm -- and I, as a parent -- again, I hope I'm not forcing
my views on somebody, but as a parent, I don't have much
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concern about my son if he's off on a K.I.S.D.-sponsored
event, a football or a debate thing. I think he's being
well taken care of. I don't worry about him at that point.
DODGE HENNEKE: I think we have to remember
the purpose of this, though, and it's not for the kids that
are on athletic teams. They're -- they have a defense.
And, the Sheriff's Department and the Policy Department will
quickly recognize that -- that there are times when they can
be late. If we push the times back, then I think we're
doing damage to the kids we're trying to help, which are not
those good kids who are participating in school activities.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other side of
that is, you're -- I'm trying to make it easier to live with
something I don't want in the first place -- is at least
we're keeping kids that shouldn't be stopped in the first
place from being stopped, 'cause they are going to be on the
road during that period.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Some are and some aren't. My
kids played sports, and most of the time, you know, if there
are sports activities, they were home by 12:00 or they were
in a situation where they could be home by 12:00 on the
weekdays, and by 1 o'clock on the weekends.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're saying if you're
playing a game in Austin, which -- or San Antonio, which our
baseball team has probably six scheduled this year -- I
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don't think you're going to be back.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I had two kids that
played basketball, I had two kids that played soccer, and
there weren't that many times, even when we lived in Hunt,
that they weren't back in Kerrville at a time when they
could have been home by midnight on Tuesday night, or by
l~ o'clock on Friday night.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just trying to
avoid --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Most of the teams --
the folks that you're talking about -- both of you are
talking about now are going to be traveling in an automobile
or going to be probably traveling with an adult anyway, but
maybe not. But, the fact is, they're probably going to
drive right home. We're not going to stop every car.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but I just --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, the fact is, the
ones you're getting at is the ones -- the kid you're trying
to address with this is the one that's walking past the used
car lot at 2 o'clock in the morning, not the kid driving
bark from an athletic event.
MR. MOTLEY: The total referrals in this
three-month period were 178, and 58 percent or 103 of those
kids were referred to Juvenile Probation between the hours
of -- I believe it was midnight -- no, excuse me, it was
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between 11:00 and 6:00, 58 percent of the kids referred in a
span of time which equaled 29 percent of the time. You can
see right there lkrat Lhe propensity to commit a criminal --
or an act which will get you referred to Juvenile Probation
is Loux Limes as high during those hours, and so that's --
that's a consideration, as far as protectinq citizens'
pr~perl.y arrd rights and such as that. And, I just -- I --
again, I wonder, you know, what in the world little kids,
some of them very young, are doing out that late. And
oftentimes, you know, in juvenile court -- and I think the
Judge will back me up on this -- we find out that the
parents are out somewhere else. They're out roaming around,
doing what they want to do, and their kids just go on out
unsupervised. And, so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, if y'all would
take a deep breath, I'll make a motion.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, me too.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If there's just a
slight change in this thing, I'm going to make a motion.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I'm -- I
move that we establish -- Kerr County establish a teen
curfew in Kerr County and set a public hearing --
JUDGE HENNEKE: A week from -- month from
today at 7 o'clock?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- a month from today
at 7 o'clock, but it can't be during the curfew hours.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it can't. I
second the	motion.		
	MR. MOTLEY:	You're ov	er 18, Buster.
	COMMISSIONER	GRIFFIN:	Do we want to set two
meetings o	r one?		
	JUDGE HENNEKE	: Thirty	days.
	COMMISSIONER	GRIFFIN:	Yeah, okay.
	JUDGE HENNEKE	: Motion	's been made --
	COMMISSIONER	GRIFFIN:	Not exactly a month.
	JUDGE HENNEKE	: Motion	's made that we approve
the order	establishing a tee	n curfew	and set a public
hearing on	same for February	22nd at	7 o'clock p.m.
	MS. ALFORD:	26th.	
	MR.. MOTLEY:	With the	changes that Jonathan
recommended?
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. MOTLEY: Right, I'll get the document
today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we have to have
the document available before we can --
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think what we can do --
let's approve this one so we r_an have it on file. The
changes suggested are not terribly substantive. We can
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discuss them at the public hearing and then make those
changes, if we so desire, to the one that we adopt.
COMMISSIUNER LE'1"L: I think we Should have
the document very close to what we adopt before we do a
public hearing.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I kind of agree,
because we've had -- there were some suggestions that need
to be looked at right now.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Well, we can do
that, too. We can approve it as amended, and the public
hearing would be the 26th at 7 o'clock in the evening.
MR. MOTLEY: The changes I would propose to
change are the -- to make, the amendments, would be to make
it clear that all those events don't have to be sponsored by
Kerr County; that an event sponsored by Kerr County would
fall within that group. Also, add the Comfort Independent
School District, try to get a list of schools -- of private
schools that may be engaging in these activities and add
that in there, as well. And, I didn't hear anything else
that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you take a
look at interstate versus county and inter-r_ity --
MR. MOTLEY: Sure, I'll look at that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I second my
own motion?
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COMMISSIUNER WILLIAMS
JUDGE HENNEKE: We --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN:
motion.
I did.
I'll second that
DODGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner
Baldwin, second by Commissioner Williams. Any further
discussion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more, under
Penalties. David, you mentioned this is a Class C
misdemeanor. I don't see that listed anywhere.
MR. MU'1'LEY: We11, it's a fine of $500, and
so any -- anything higher -- anything finable -- any offense
finable by a fine only is deemed to be a Class C misdemeanor
under the Penal Code. Anything B or above would provide for
jail. So, it could be added in there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it should be,
because I think it does something else. If someone gets
stopped who shouldn't be and is -- for whatever reason, gets
arrested, all of a sudden just gets arrested, a good kid has
a record for no reason. And, as we know, while it may be
proven, you know, not guilty, there's paper that will never
be destroyed about this kid being arrested for a
misdemeanor, and I think that's an issue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions? If
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not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Griffin
voted in favor of the motion.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Aye.
(Commissioner Letz voted against the motion.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries, 3 to 1.
David, we'll need to have the order revised and to the
County Clerk by Wednesday.
MR. MOTLEY: I think I can do it over the
lunch hour and get it out today.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It needs to be published.
Okay. At this time, let's recess and return at 1:30.
MR. MOTLEY: Judge, I have some hearings at
1:30 at the State Hospital. Could I come in here after that
to do that 2.18?
JUDGE HENNEKE: If we're still here. I don't
think you're doing to have any problems, David.
MR. MOTLEY: Yeah. I just -- the only thing
I want to mention about that, that if the Court approves
that additional -- those additional funds, I need to ask
authorization for a hand check so we can mail them.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy told us that this
morning.
MR. MU'1'LEY: Okay.
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(Recess taken from 12:18 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.)
(Commissioner Lets was not present for
afternoon session.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll reconvene this special
session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. At this
time, let's take up Item Number 2.15, consider and discuss
proposed revisions to the scope of work and contract amount,
as ieLlecLed in the Change Grder Number 7 relating to the
renovation of the Annex. Keith?
MR. LGNGNECKER: This Change Order Number 7,
as it is written, reflects a credit of $3,764.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Excuse me, did you
say credit?
MR. LGNGNECKER: Yes, sir. The reason for
that credit is a 700 -- $7,150 credit for not doing anything
to the historic windows in this building. This is what the
contractor sees from his contractor as a credit that he can
give back. The reason for that is we'd kind of like to
explore and do a survey of the other windows, which we have
done that. The survey is included in the back, of your
Change Order 7. There's also a new specification that
covers everything that needs to be done to these old
windows. Now, the reason I asked Mike Walker to include the
credit, rather than going back to Stoddard to see how much
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more this new survey and specification would cost, was to
take advantage, perhaps, of an opportunity here to see what
it would c~sL Lo completely retrofit the building with all
As you all know, the cost of energy is going
up at a fantastic rate right now. I know that my electric
Lill has yore up at least 20 percent, and it seems to me
like that by investigating and getting the windows
completely xeLxofit, replaced with all new permanent windows
that would no longer be a maintenance headache or no longer
have ttie problems of heat loss, heat gain, like the old ones
do, you could -- you could see a tremendous savings in
energy costs over a period of five or six years. So, before
we spend a lot more money on restoring these old windows --
which, in my estimation, Stoddard would increase his cost by
about $38,000 he would want to add to the contract as an
additional change order, and I think that's a little bit
more than you should spend on old windows.
Even after the windows are refurbished, they
still are not going to be energy efficient, as if they had
insulating glass or low-heat glass, as it's called, energy
efficient glass. They're still going to be just like they
are, with plain old double-strength glass in them, which is
where you have an energy loss. The number of windows per
square foot in this building is quite a bit more than it is
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in the Annex building. We do have E-glass in tt-iaL, wkiicki is
energy efficient, and there are quite a bit fewer windows.
Su, we dicl ilia ke tkiat }.~uildiiig more eiie ryy efficient from a
window standpoint than this one is, or will be if we restore
these windows.
So, I'm recommending that we take Change
Order 7, as it is written, and -- which includes a $71 cyst
for changing a couple of interior windows in the microfilm
room for Linda [7ecker's District Clerk uperations. Thal.'s
to take out glass and put in blinds so that she can make
that a darkroom up there, which was not considered in the
original contract. The $3,315 is for a discovered
c~iidiLion, to add a fire wall as required by code in the
corridor and lobby area immediately at the top of the stairs
here, going up. And, Lkie -- that is probably tiiyti, which is
what we have Stoddard doing, but it's less than his
oxiyicial. We did, during our last construction meeting, get
that price down to this $3,315. Those are the three items
of the change order.
DODGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any
questions regarding the specifics of Lhe change order?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keith, I apologize.
I -- I was in a coma there for a moment when you were
talking about the windows. And, I guess maybe this is a
question to Mike. These changes that he's talking about, do
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they affect the historical aspect of the building at all?
MR. WALF:ER: Well, certainly, they do.
Please keep in mind that the plans we submitted to the Texas
Historical Commission included the renovation of these
windows. So, yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And renovating them in
a way that -- that --
MR. WALKER: Consistent with the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Consistent --
MR. WALKER: -- the state guidelines.
COMMISSIUNER BALDWIN: All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you finished?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, to that effect,
there's a credit, but Stoddard will be doing no wiuduw work,
and the window work will remain for us to determine and the
cost to do it at a later date; is that correct?
MR. LONGNECKER: At present, there's a few
windows upstairs that do need attention, that have holes and
cracks that need to be immediately repaired. But, it's --
to me, we've lived with these old windows to this date, acid
to me, I would suggest that, as soon as possible, there be a
workshop and that there be a selection of how to go abuut
doing a complete retrofit of the building. I mean, I'm
talking about deleting painting and everything so that we
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can have this building as energy efficient as possible.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 1'11 make a motion
that we approve the proposed revisions to the scope of work
and the change in contract amount as reflected in Change
Order 7.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Secuud.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court
approve the proposed revisions to the scope of work and
change in contract amounr as reflected in Change Order 7
relating to the courthouse Phase III renovations. Any
further questions or comments?
MR. LONGNECKER: Like to say anything, Mike?
MR. WALKER: I just wanted to point out, as I
have pointed out in the letter to you, that I don't
necessarily think you're getting your full credit back on
those windows, but I -- it's a goodly amount for the amount
of work that -- that is to be done. Next, I'd like to point
out to you that the -- to clarify the inside of the windows
will be finished off, with the exception of the places like
the sashes that are going to be replaced. We will actually
point those out to them, and there's really not much sense
in them doing anything more than just cleaning them up,
because they're -- some of them, you can stick youL fingers
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through. So, there's not much point in doing anything oLtier
than filling those holes. But, the -- all the work -- I
won't say all. The vast majority of the work that will be
done in the future to those windows, most of it can be done
from the outside. Now, that doesn't mean that -- you kriuw,
for a period of time there will be a piece of plywood over
that window while it's being taken care of, so that it is
not without some discomfort for the folks inside there.
Also, all the weather stripping has been removed from those
windows, so it's going to be pretty uncomfortable in there
to a degree, because they need to go aheafl and finish all
the way out to those windows and pull that stuff off and --
and fill the holes and so forth. So, that will be taken
care of in -- in this go-round so that as little
interference with the inside operation can be done in Lkre
subsequent phase.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question,
Judge. If you don't thinY, we got the right amount of
credit, what do you think the right amount of credit sYiould
be?
MR. WALKER: Well, 1 think it -- it should be
somewhat more than that. But, frankly, I don't know how you
-- you're not going extract it from this contractor.
Believe me, we worked hard to qet it to that point,
MR. LONGNECKER: It started out at 95,500.
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We had an awful time getting it up to $7,100.
Mk. WALKER: So -- and, for example, they
left things off like the front entry door, That's a pLetty
major thing. They just ignored it. At the last minute,
they put back in $200 to finish that. I think anyvue who
would walk out there and look at that would know that it's
going to cost a whole lot more than $200 or $250 to stLip
and revaruish that door.
MR. LONGNECKEK: Much of what we're doing is
to try to expedite the project and get it completed so that
we can occupy and so that we can find some terminaLiou point
for Stoddard's contract. And, actually, I don't feel that
he has anyone qualified to even restore the windows, leC
alone do a retrofit job on -- on the project. So, this
is -- this is a measure, I think, in doing this to sii~iply
bring the contract to completion so that we can get on with
those other things that are going to be needed that axe
above and beyond what his contract calls for.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hear, hear.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
DODGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(Nc response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We've
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already discussed Item 16, which is discuss rehabilitating
historical windows. At this point, I don't believe we're
prepared to take any action on that, other than to accept.
the survey that's been done. At some future point in time,
we'll have to get some numbers together and compare those
numbers with the available resources to see what we can do
on what kind of a schedule, but I don't see any -- any
driving force to go ahead with that at this time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Unless the Commissioners
disagree.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. The way I
understood it was that we wanted to get the contractor out
of the building before we even --
MP.. LONGNECKER: Mike Walker has, I
believe -- you have at least one contractor in mind? To
give us a separate price on his survey specification here;
is that correct?
COMMISSIONER GRIFF'1N: Why? Because that's
not --
MR. LONGNECKER: 1'o do a restoration of Lhe
windows.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We want to get
Stoddard finished and out of here, right?
MR. LONGNECKER: Mm-hmm.
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COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I think Buster
says it just right. That's a separate issue. We make it a
separate issue that would not involve Stoddard in any way,
shape, or form. So, there's some things we have to do to
get that contract -- the Stoddard contract finished, and --
MR. LONGNECKER: I think what Mike Walker and
I would liY.e to see is go ahead and get some bid prices on
what we have here at this point.
MR. WALKER: With the limited survey that we
have and the other sections that we have to go with it, it's
virtually ready to go out to bid to get the prices, if you
want to.
DODGE HENNEKE: Have you identified the
source of funds for the work?
MR. WALKER: Sir, I'm just telling you where
the status will be.
JUDGE HENNEKE: By virtue of which I'm
identifying the issue there are no funds budgeted for any
work outside the scope of contract, other than to finish out
the basement, and so we need to make the decision whether
we're prepared to go ahead and get prices and then try to
identify funds out of what is becoming an increasingly tight
budget for this year, or whether this is something that we
take up in a subsequent budget year.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: May I -- I think the
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sense of the Court is, as I yoL iL before, and -- and
correct me if I'm wrong, is that we want to get Stoddard's
contract work finished. We want Lhe building weather-tight
so that we don't have water coming through the windows or
whatever. That we would address Lhe window issue as a
totally separate thing and totally separate budget issue,
and not to deal with that at this point. But, we need to
get the building weather-tight, and I think the approach
you're taking where -- you know, try Lo do everything you
can on the inside so that most of the additional work,
whenever it is done, is done fx~m Lhe outside, and with some
obvious impact on the inside as well, but I think that's
where we're headed. We're not looking to commit to the
window project at this point, if I read this all right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Except to ask, if we
delete this, as we're proposing to do, are we going to have
a weather-tight building?
MR. WALKER: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Te11 us about that.
MR. WALKER: Okay. If you will -- you can
walk around up there, and I'll be glad to show you the
instances, but there's places where plaster is falling off
because those existing windows are seeping and being
infiltrated by moisture. So, no, it is not weather-tight,
and I would make that very clear. Until those cracks and
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crevices and caulking and so forth are put back together, it
is not weather-tight.
CUMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that fall under
some scope of Mr. Stoddard's contract to do that?
MR. WALKER: Yes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It did.
MR. WJNGNECKER: It did. You just took it
out.
JUllGE HENNEKE: We don't even have a
weather-tight building down here. In Jonathan's office,
when the wind's blowing, we don't have a weather-tight --
you know, I think that one -- a way we might approach
weather is to ask the -- once we're done, is to ask the
Maintenance Department to look at what has to be done in
order to improve the -- the weather conditions, the climate
control on -- on a short-term, but permanent --
semi-permanent basis, so that it doesn't get caught up in
this overall issue of -- of the windows. I mean, we --
weatherstripping is not necessarily tied, hip and thigh, to
the issue of renovating the windows. At least I don't think
so.
MR. LONGNECKER: No, you're right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, weatherstripping we can
address --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In maintenance.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: -- as a maintenance issue
when we get to that point, when we get control of the
building. And then, as we develop the budget, both on the
-- how much it would cost and how much we're going to spend
at any one time, we can and will address the windows. We're
not going to leave the windows unaddressed; that would be
foolish, 'cause we spent all this money on this building and
then to leave that very visible part of the building --
important part of the building unaddressed --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What you outlined,
Judge, is exactly what I was getting at; is that we get
Stoddard out of the building, get that contract finished, we
make the building as weather-tight as we can make it within
our resources, and that's probably through the Maintenance
Department, and then we'll address the overall issue of --
of window renovation, probably in the next budget cycle.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Exactly.
MR. LONGNECKER: Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The survey is something that,
obviously, we will base our discussions of the window
problem off of the survey, which is excellent. That's what
we have to have, so it's a starting point.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Tell us
briefly, Keith, how we're coming.
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MR. LONGNECKER: Well, at this puint, we are
preparing to move the District Clerk from her present
offices over into tkiis -- her new facilities. TYrat's
sr_heduled for the 29th, which is next Monday, and it looks
like the contractor's going to make it. He's going to have
it ready. He has -- he's prepared to put flooring down. I
believe he started tkie vinyl flooring today and will do
carpet tomorrow. He has a little bit of varnish, painting
work to do, and then, of course, Linda's phones and
computers and things will have to be moved and hooked up.
And, we're going to try Lo make that move as yuickly as
possible. Most of the furniture that goes in is new
furniture, which is already here. IL's Leady to be set.
And, she will move very little, actually. Reading machines
and computers and things like this, bul. actual furniture,
desks, chairs, and that sort of thing, most is going to be
older -- older furniture that's going to be either discarded
or taken to use elsewhere. But, as I see it, this is going
to probably be the way the contractor is going. To get the
Law Library, or Stage 2 of Phase 3B, finished will take
probably another six weeks, if we're lucky.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we'll have the majority
of the work done by the time for our grand opening?
MR. LUNGNECKER: I hope so. I'm certainly
pushing to get it -- get it done. The roof work to go on
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the outside of the building there, that -- yesterday I was
told that they need three more days of roof work to complete
the roof on this -- on this building. They've, of cuurse,
been delayed by weather. Of course, they should have been
working on it last fall when we had good weather, but that's
beside the point. To get it finished, they need three more
days. They've got today. I know they're up tkiere working
today, just doing mostly metal work, but they still have
more asphalt felt to put down and cap sheet and that sort of
thing. They've still got railings ro finish. We've still
got to get the east ramp open. Again, Lhe zeason it's not
open is because of the roof work. They need that to get
down debris and whatever that's coming oLL of that. But, we
still have other minor things to do, like a building
directory. Dedication plaque is not here, which is all
included in the contract, and then that's -- that's about
it. We should be finished.
JUDGE HENNEKE: How are they coming on the
punch list from the district courtroom area?
MR. LONGNECKER: That's pretty well
completed.
MR. WALKER: They have most of those items
completed.
DODGE HENNEKE: Good.
MR. LONGNECKEK: There's a few items above
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the ceiling that we have nested that peihaps are not_ done,
which will be included and documented. If they don't wish
to finish it, that's about all we caii ao. What was it?
Some debris above the ceilings, some places where the
ceiling's cracked and should have been zeinforced. There
are a few suspension wires that are not tight, things like
that. They will be documented. BuL, ttie ceiling is in, and
the other punch list items -- well, for the most part, they
have been taken care of.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We did receive a letter from
the Jail Commission approving the holding cells.
MR. LONGNECKER: That's right.
JUllC,E HENNEKE: I sent you a campy of that,
gave each of the Commissioners --
MR. LONGNECKER: T1iaL's dune, and I believe
the Sheriff has been using those cells. I know I saw it was
locked up with inmates in the cell the other day.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWCN: What about the -- the
leak in the new facility on -- inside of this wall here, in
that hallway?
MR. LONGNECKER: That was taken care of. Was
it not?
MR. WALKER: As far as I know, it was taken
care of.
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CUMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the answer to
I
my question? It has been taken care of?
MR. LUNGNECKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, we're going to
put new file in there'?
MR. WALKER: Ceiling file in, yes, sir.
CUMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-k-luau.
MR. LONGNECKER: Yeah, they'll be replacing
any damaged file from leaking.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Let me redo my
question. When will we be replacing the new -- Lkie damaged
t he in the ceiling?
MR. LONGNECKER: We11 --
MR. WALKER: His man is on site now, so I --
no reason he couldn`t do it right now.
MR. LONGNECKER: If we didn't get it today,
he's gone. He finished what he was doing up here. But --
MR. WALKER: Oh.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I haven't been Duet
there. I was over there --
MR. LONGNECKER: He'11 be back on the Staye <^
upstairs to do that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was over there Due
day last week, and someone -- a Deputy Sheriff pointed out,
"Look at that; there's a brand new leak," and it looked like
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it was wet to me then. I haven't been over there -- over
there since the last hearing.
MR. LONGNECKER: We had a leak in the middle
of the courtroom, which was not a roof leak; it was a
condensate thing from the one rooftop unit. That's been
corrected.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else?
MS. PIEPER: I have a question. Is there
going to be a button for handicapped that opens the side
entrances where the ramp is?
MR. LONGNECKEF.: Yes. Yes, that has Lo be
installed.
MR. WALKER: It was approved by the Court
some while ago, and they just haven't gotten it ordered and
in. Supposed to be in in February.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any other questions
while we've got our boys here?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have to vote?
JUDGE HENNEKE: We voted on the agenda item;
yes, we did. Okay. Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it.
Okay, let's go back and clean up and wrap up. Item 2.?,
consider and discuss appointing replacement to the AACOG
Landfill Committee. Commissioner Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. As per --
Dr. Georgia Zanaris of AACOG informed me that we needed ~~
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make one more appointment to that Landfill Committee Ln Kerr
County, and I -- it is my appointment, so I wish to appoint
Mr. J. F. "Skip" Plangman to that position.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that a motion?
COMMISSIONER BALUWIN: Yes, that was a
motion.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that Lk-ie Cuurt
appoint Mr. J. F. "Skip" Plangman to the AACOG Landfill
Committee. Any questions or comments? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number
8, consider and discuss accepting 25 park benches Lrum
Allied Advertising in San Antonio and authorize Road and
Bridge Department to transport same to Kerrville for use in
Flat Rock and Center Point Parks.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has happened,
Judge. I so move.
COMMISSIONER GRIFr'1N: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court
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accept 25 park benches from Allied Advertising in San
Antonio and authorize Road and Bridqe retroactively to
transport same from San Antonio to Kerrville to be used in
the Flat Rock and Center Point Parks. I'd just like to
point out that the reason this was -- was done before we
could bring it to Court was it was a first-come,
first-served offer.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: And the quality of the
benches deteriorated significantly the further down the list
you got.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. We got
some good ones.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We got some nice ones. All
in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number
9, consider and discuss approval of Cooperative Agreement
between the Office of the Attorney General of the State of
Texas and Kerr County, Texas, and authorize County Judge to
sign same. This is an agreement relating to child support
that I know very little about,
MS. SOVIL: It's the same thing we've done
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every year.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Is it?
MS. SOVIL: Yes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: O'ray.
MS. SOVIL: It's a repeat.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want you to notice
duwii there that the representative of the Child Support
Division goes by the name of Baldwin.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Intimately familiar with
child support? Is that what you're suggesting?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments?
Do I have a motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I so move.
COMMISSIUNEK GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court
approve the Cooperative Agreement between the Office of the
Attorney General and Kerr County, and authorize County Judge
to sign same. Any questions or r_omments? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
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168
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This fellow has been
to my family reunion, and he's a black man.
DODGE HENNEKE: Uh, really?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a good time.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll bet. r'inally, Item
Number 18, consider and discuss amendment of Kerr County
budget to increase Insurance Liability by $1,250, with the
funds to come from Nondepartmental Contingency. Also, per
the request of the Auditor, we need a handbill for this
amount.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is because of the
addition of the third attorney, right'?
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Addition of what?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Third attorney.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court
approve the amendment of the County Attorney's budget to
increase Insurance Liability by $1,250, funds to come from
Nondepartmental Contingency, and to authorize a hand check
in that amount. Any further questions or comments? If not,
all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Anybody else
have any business?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think we had
something to do with -- David had something.
MR. MOTLEY: That was it.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He doesn't want to say
anything, 'cause we could change our minds.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not going to
discuss -- you were going to make some changes to the --
MR. MOTLEY: Oh, I made the changes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It just changed --
MR. MOTLEY: The deal on the interstate
travel is to protect the constitutional right of interstate
commerce. That's where that came from. And, there's no
right to, you know, inter-county commerce, per se, under the
U.S. Constitution. That's why they included that lanquage.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, not to infringe
on any constitutional rights on interstate travel, can we
further define, however, that inter-county travel or
intra-city, within counties?
MR. MOTLEY: Inter-county travel?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Intra.
MR. MOTLEY: Intra-county travel?
170
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Intra-county.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, it would have to
be within --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, inter-county is
between counties. Intra is within counties.
MR. MOTLEY: Right. I thought you had said
inter-county travel.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we --
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think -- I think that's --
we've approved the draft. I think that's an issue that you
might ask David to look at and get with him and bring it up
when we come to adopt the actual order.
MY.. MO'PLEY: He may not be talking
constitutional; he may be talking practicalities on that, I
think, is what you're staying. I'll bring y'all the retyped
version here in a few minutes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Before we adjourn, I'd like
to remind everyone, as you make your rer_ommendations for the
Redistrictinq Committee, please provide names and addresses
and phone numbers. We will be sending material to them and
we need to know where they want the material. Also, it's
important in this committee that the committee reflect the
gender and ethnic makeup of the county, as well as the
precinct, so please keep that in mind as you -- as you
approach people to serve on this committee.
171
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MS. SOVIL: He needs an Executive Sessiun.
MR. MOTLEY: I may have a matter that I need
to discuss or inform the Court about.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. At this time, the
Court's going into Executive Session. Anyone who is not
authorized to be here is so excused. Jannett, will you flip
the sign for us, please?
MP.. MOTLEY: It's a quick item, I can tell
you that.
(The open session was closed at approximately
2:10 p.m., and an Executive Session was
held, the transcript of which is contained
in a separate document.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's qo back into open
session.
MR. MOTLEY: Okay, thanks.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you want to open the door
for us and we can --
MR. MOTLEY: Sure. I'll flip the sign, too.
JUDGE HENNEKE: -- and then we can adjourn.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks, David.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioners Court is now
returned to open session. Is there any action necessary as
a result of the Executive Sessionl Finding none, is there
any other business to come before us?
CUMM15S1ONER BALDWIN: None.
172
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JUDGE HENNEKE: If not, we stand adjourned.
(commissioners Court adjourned at 2:15 p.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 26th day oY January,
2001.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
Kathy Ba~, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
UFtUER IVCI. _66c
GLH 1 f*IS FiNll HULUUIV i 5
On this the c2nd day nF Janiiar-y c0~1~ came to be cor'ISide~-ed
by the coin^t the var•ioi_IS claims ar'~d accoilnts against Kerr
Coilnty and the various colnmis~sioner'•'s precincts,
which said claims and accoi..uits are.:
t@-henera:i Fluid i'nr tii4~7,1t,4.Ulg .ii-Jiir~•y Fiu~id
~Y~ar ~6J5'i. ILi~l19 1.~-Road 8~ iir.idge Hdd~ 1 Regi str~a~t ion F'ee Fiend for-
~14,:;1i.'39g 15-...Road n Fridge Fund for ~ ~1S`?,601~.k5, '~7-Jilt'
Intensive F!roy-State Aid Fiend for 4'~r8l1.c13q ~ILI-Indigent
Health i.,are 1-iend i-or :Db, SGC_. 41 ~ iii-'ermanent lrnpr-ovement 1-imd
'f OY' $35y 4E~. 6iq 76-Jiev mile Detention Facility Fiend for
~G41~1.~~g 83-State Funded-E7.Gth District Attorney Fiend for
~1~607.84g 06--State F=imGed-r'lE;th District F'robatior~ 1-iend for
`bay 1F~1.4Eig F~7-State Funded-l,ommiuiit-y Corrections Fiend for
sue, JJN. (=,.J~ i 10(AL ALL FUNL):J-~.oat~, I~aE4. 47)
l.lpon motion made by C:aminissioncr- Williams, seconded by
Commissioner Letz9 tree eoier•t unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 payment of said Claims and Accoients as recomended by the
Coilnty Auditor.

HI~'I-'BONNE bUllL-;L I F1MtIVllhltlVl~~ 1N
JHJ:L i*IHJ.NIENiaiVCE
On this the ccnd day v'F Jan~_iar•y c0N1, ~_~pon motion made by
Commissioner E~aldwin , ser_onded by Commissioner'• Let z, the
Co~_irt unanimously approved by a vote of 4-Qi-~, to transfer
~6~~.QiQi from Line Item No. 10-511-451 Jail Repairs in Jail
Maintenance, to Line Item No. 10'--511-57~ Capital Oi_ttlay in
Jail Maintenance.
ORD2R Nr1. 26829
gal-~PttUVi-~L PUllUt i HMEIVI1MEnli liv JUVENiLt F-~KOHAI i0N
~~ NUIV llEl-'HR~tMh_'IV ~t-HL
On this the~2nd day of January 2001, i_ipon motion made by
C;ommiss~oner Let z, sec.anded by Commissioner Baldwir~, the Court
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 , to transrer ~Ei69.Q~Q~
fr•oin Line item No. i0-409-57N Capital O~.~tlay to Line item No.
12~"'J7~_'J7~ Capital 0~-~tlay.
UkuLfi Nti. ._bb,3 V~
A4~'F-'kOVRL NUUUE f HIhEI`~IIJMLNI IN UHtltlt-I-' S 11LF'AR i IhEN I
COUNTY JHIL
On this the c2nd day of Jan~_iary c:~~di, ~_ipon motion made by
L.ommi:;sioner• Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, the
Lu~srt unanimously approved by a vote of 4-~-Qi, to transfer
'b3cc.~0 front Line item No. 10-51'-c~6 ins~_irance-L~ldy ft Sail to
Line item hio. 10-51.c-USE ins~_~rance-Pldy R Jail to Line item
IVo. 1~1-Sbki-4t1~ Vehicle Insurance.
uttu~H Nu. ~Ftasi
NPF'RUVHL PL111tiE( HhIENIlirIENI aIV SLiVENILL F'RDRfaT'IDN
Un 't.4-pis tt'ie c::nd day of Jan~_iary 2001, japan mo'bion made by
Commissioner, Let z, s>ecanded by Commissioner, Gr^iff~n , the
Court unanimously appr•aved by a vote of 4-0-0, to transfer"
X91.00 from Line item 10-570-206 Ronds to Line item
10-510-451 Vehicle Insurance.

NI-'I-'kUVHL OF HHIVU L,HkCi:
l'E7CA5 4-'OLIlrE H55uL.1GTlUN/ SHLKIF-F"5 IJEF'AKINLIVT
On this the ccnd day of Jan~_rary ciZl~lr1~ upon motion made by
Commissioner Let z, seconded try Commissioner Williams' the
t.o~_Ir•t: unanimously approved 6y a vote of 4-0-Qr~ to a~_Ithorize
The Co~_mty gi_iditor and The County Tr~easi_irer~ to issue a hand
check irr the amo~_rnt of ~~70.1~0 to be iss~_ied from Line item
No. 11C-JtrILI-'Ftl%. the check made payable to The Texas Police
Hssoc?. at iorr.
CikUr_.ri IVU. ct~8:,:~
RF'1'FIUV(-1L lJl~- H(-IIVD CHEI.:K
CONI~URT INN LODGINGi SNERIF~" 5 DEF'f1RTNENT
On th>s the ccnd day of J'an~_rary ~NViI, upon motion made by
t~ommissioner Let z, seconded by trommissioner• Griffin the i.,oi_u^t
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to a_rthor•ize a hand
checi~ in the amo~_rrrt of ~35~r.0N from Line item 10-S1c-4137. 1'he
Co~_rnty H~_rditor and Lo+_mty freas~_rrer are authorized to write a
hand check made payable to comfort Innl F'lano, Texas .
ORIJER N0. "~6£i34
HI'I~'RGVRL UF~ HAIVll CHBCK
l!F'S BASIC F-'NUULllUktS UUUF25Ei SHErtIF-F-' S llLF'AFtTMEN I
On this the "c]nd day of Jan~_iary 2Z~01, upon motion made by
Commissioner Lets, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, the Co~_mt
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-N, to authorise a Hand
check in the amount of '~3U~[~.NS 'From Line item iW-Sly-4d i.ihe
County Auditor and Co~.inty Treasurer are authorised to write a
nand check made payable to W. k. Hierhol~er°.
ORDER IVU. GF.,B.i:i
RF'f='ROVRL OF HRND CHECI'~
DPS BASIC PROCEDURES COURSE/ SHERIFF'S DEf='RRTNENT
On this the c~'nd day ofi .1an~_rar-y L~~1, i.rpon motion made by
commissioner Let z, seconded by ~ommissianer vritfiin, the Lourt
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-Sr-0, to author•i~e a harrq
[-heck in the amount of` 4c.1H.c0 From Line item 10-fi1:_-4fif. The
~a~_tnty Hr_rdltar and Lounty "frc~as~_rrer are a~_rthorized to write a
hand check made payable to Country Hearth Lnn ft S~_ritesf F'harr
Texas.
ORDER NCI, c6836
NRF'RUVAL OF HFaND (:HECK
l5L7 l RFalivlNCi CLRSSi F-'LflNO, I-Ext-15/ SHERIf=F" S DEF'HRIh'IEIV"I
On this the 2"c'nd day of Jane-iary @@1, capon motion made by
Commissioner Wi1:Iiams, Seconded by Commissioner Let-, the
Oo~-ir-~t unanimously approved by a vote of 4-@-@, to a~-~thor~~ize a
hand check in tt-~e amount of 8 22@.@@ from Line item
1@-512-487. The Coy-m'ty Auditor and Coy-mty Treasurer are
authorized to write a hand check made payable to W. R.
Hier•holzer•.
uI2DLF2 Nu. :~6t~~ 7
GI='I=~ItIiVHL I O NCCEF~ I h7INU i Es
FaND WRIVE Rk:RDIN[i
Gn this 'theccnd day of January :_@@a, upon motion made by
Commissioner Grx'ffin, seconded by Commissioner Let-, the L-o~_trt
unanimously, by a vote of 4-@-@, waived r°ead>rry and appr^overl
the following min~_rtes: Ker^r Ca_mty Commissioner's Coy-irt
Rego-rlar Session, Monday, December li, c@@@ - 9:@@ a. m. ; and
Kerr County Commissioner"s Court especial Session, Friday,
Liecember• cam, ~@@@ - `3:@~ti a. m.
OI~DER NO. 26838
AF'F'ROVRL TO flCCEF'T
1'EXflS RGRICULIUftflL EXT6NSIOIV St RVIL;F
h_XTENS1uIV NOTIVIIY REF~Oi1i TU CUMriIS57:UNEI~iS COUk"f
MONTHLY SCHE_L1ULE Uf- '1 RflVEL
Un this the ccnd day of Jan~_iar-y ck01, upon motion made by
Commissioner- Williams, seconded by Commissioner l..etz, the
Uoi_i r'C unanimously, approved by a vote of 4-~-Q~, the Texas
flgricultural Extension Service Monthly Rctivity Fiepart n
Monthly Schedule Of Travel to Commissioner's C:o~art.
OFiUE:R NU. .e;ts~;'~t
HGPKUVHL uF IN fE:riLOUHi_ Rt:ikE~MtNI
REI'WEtIV THE ~.[TY uF r,ERRViLLE
AND KERR COUNTY
On this the ci_'nd day of January :_~01, upon motion made by
Commissioner Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Naldwin, the
Co~_a•i; unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-a, the interlocal
agreement between tl-ie City of f:errville and Kerr Ca~.tnty
regarding the construction o'i- T-Hangers at the Kerr'•ville/
Kerr Co.anty ini_micipai Air-port and authorising the County
Judge 'to sign same.
ORDER NO. rE,84U.~
FiF'F'ROVRL OF RESOLUT~N
~F GRANT RF'F'LICRTION TO THE
CRIMINRL JUSTICE DIVISION
un this the c:cnd day of Jan~_iary c:IC~1, upon motion made by
Lommissioner- w~lliams, seconded by Commissioner Lets, the
Co~_irt tmanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-Q, the resolution
of- grant applicatr.on to the Criminal .1~_~stlce iJivision i;fi the
UFfice of the Governor, State of Texas, for 'Funding of the
16th Judicial Distr•:ict Narcotics Task Force and ai.~thor•ize the
County J~.tdge to execi_tte an Inter-agency f~greement relating to
the said Grant Hpplication.
ORDER ND. ~GH~i
RPF'ROVAL FDR REDUCTION
DF LDIiIVTY ttEGISIRAIiUN DUItINU RHLilES VHC:C1Nfl-~1UN DRIVE
Dn this the ~~nd day oi` Jan~_~ar•y ,_k7V71y ~_ipon motion made by
Commissioner Let:, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Co~_ir-t
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-@-0~ the red~_~ci;ian of
County registration d~.ar•ing rerbies vaccination r_ir•ive Febuar-y
the ~,rd - heb~_iary :LJth9 c@@1 from SD.@@ to 81.@@.
ORDER N0. c684c_
STEF' CHRNGE FOR JRIL MRINTENRNCE DEF'RRTMENT
"~ On this the 2nd day of Jan~aar•y c001, capon the motion made by
Commissioner- Griffin, seconded 6y Commissioner- Williams, the
Coiar•t unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to approve the
classification step change of 9!1 Custodian to 1c/1 Utility
maintenance for- the Jail Maintenance Department. (assigned to
the Sheriff's Department)
ORDER NCI. ~F1343
SHERIFF'95 CUI*7InII IEE FUht LUNG RHNGL E'LNN
SHERIFF'S DEI-'HR I P1EN 1
On this the 2cnd deny of Jan~_rary 21~rClr ~_~pon the motion made by
Commissianer- Raldwin~ seconded by Commissioner Let z, the Ca~rrl;
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-~D-0 ~ to a~..rthorize ttie
Sheril-f"s Department to o'rgan?.ve a long range plan committee
for the Sheriff's OfFice. The committee will consist of two
members appointed by the Sheriff, arse member appointed try each
of the Commissioners' and ane member appointed by the Ca~_urty
J~_rdge.
ORDER NO. '6844
AI='F'ROVgL RUTNORIZING ThiE SI-iERIFF
TO fal='F'LY FUR A G13flNl
FhtUN BUREHU Ui= JUSI II:F FOK VE~1" PfaRTNEI~tSHIF' GRHNI
On this the 'r'nd day of Jan~..iary, 2001, ~-ipon the motion made by
L,ommissioner Letr., seconded ~y Commissioner~• Lialdwin, the
Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, a~-ithor•izir~g
the Sheriff to apply far a grant from The Eti-irea~_i Of .7usti.ce
for Vest Partnership Grant.
ORDER IVO ~6N~+;:;
RF'F'ROVHL i=iU l'HUh2I11N1i fHL ~HERiF i-
f 0 f-1F'F'LY FUR R ~RHN I F ROht
EaHCOG
Un this the ~~~nd oay of Jamaary UQ~4~1, ~_~pon the motion made by
Commissioner GriPtin, seconded by trommissior~er 1_+aldwin, ttie
Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-Q, the author•ia-
ation for the Sheriff's Dept. 'to apply for a grant from Af~COO
in the amo~_m't of ~JJ, ~~ki. Vim, for training purposes for the
school reso~_~rce officers, and to a~.ithori-~e the County Judge to
sign the same.
ORIJEP. N0. c:6f34E
HF'F'ROVHt_ HUIHOR1Z11VC~ IFIE :iHEftlF-F IO
Fif-'PLY IO fHE HAL HNU L:HHFtt_lU PEIE_FtSIJft FGUtv1~HF1UiV
F=OR Fi hF~HN~f
On this the ccnd day of Jane-tar•y cl~Qil, upon motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin,
the L:ourt unanimously approved by a vote of 4-~I-a, authori~:ing
'the Sheriff to apply for a yr^ant from the Hal and Charlie
Peter-son Foy-mdation in the amount of `C•'~2,'CIG:J.~O~L), to he lased
to purchase video ~-inns for each patrol vehicle, and
authorizing tl-re uoi-uity Judge to sign the same.
URli[c:k IVU. ~6h4I
ES I HtrLIUN TEEN NUG7UFtNFiL L;URI=tW
IN KERR CUUNfY RIVD S'El' F'UNLIC HEARIN[i ON SAME
Un ti~is the ccnd day ofi Jani_(ary :_0Q(I, upon motion matte by
Commissioner Naldwir-~, SeLOY"idBd by Commissioner Williams, the
Court approved by a vote of 3-1-¢r, the approval to establish
a teen c~_o~i'ew ~.n Kerr Co~_(nty and set a pt(bl'i.c hearing on
Feb~_(ary i'_bth, ~u~Qi1 at 7:N~ p. m.
ORI3ER N0. c:G848
APPROVAL OE CHANGE ORDE:Ii NO 7
REP': MIKE WALF;ER / KEITH LONGNECI:ER
CHANGE TN CONTRACT" AMOUN"f
Urt this the ccnd day a~i' Jan~_~ary c: k7 Vii, upon motion made uy
Lommissioner• GrifFin, seconded 6y commissioner Williams, the
Lo~.it"L' unanimously approved, by a vote of ~-0-0, thie
approval of change nr•der No. i, which rei`lects a credit
of ~7,1~5~.00 r•elatiny to the Cour-thouse Phase III Renovations.
ORDER NO. 'FES=+9
RRCOG Lf~ND1=TLL COMh~ITI"1"EE
RF'F'OINI MtN-f IIV F:E:RR COUN I Y
On this tic c nd day of Jan~..rary c~Nl, ~_rpon mcrtxon made try
Commissioner L~aldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin,
ttie Co~.~r~L i_inanimo~asly approved, by a vote of 3-0-0, the
approval oi' are add itiunal aHCOV aFrpo lnl;ment of ,1. F-.
p'lanyman
ORDE13 NO. ,=605@
RF'pROVE AND ACCEPT~5 f-'ARI{
PENCHES FROM ALLIED ADVERTISING
On this the 'c~nd day of Jan~_~aryr'@@1, capon motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner ~-;r•ii'Pin, t-he
Co~_n~t unanimously approved by a vote of 3-@-@, to accept ~5
park benches from Hltied FidVel"'t151nL] 'I;Q be i_~sed in the 1-tat
Rock arrd Center i-'Din't p'ar•ks.
URDER NU. c6G51
RF~F'RUVE COOF'ERRTIVE RGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE OFFICE. OF THE RTTURNE'f GEN.
OI~ 7HE_ SfR'fE OF fEXRS FIND KERB CUUNTY
Un ttrls the ._~-'nd day of Jan~_iary cGkil, upon motion made by
Conimissior~er• Paldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, the
Co~_ir•t: unanimously approved, by a vote of ~-0-0, to approve
the cooperative agreement between the Utfice of Httorney
General of The State of Texas and N,err Coi_mty, and the
Co~_rrrty .T~_idge to sign and approve the same.
OtlliEk wiJ. ~FFSS~_
;=+UUGE 1 Rl~tl_.IVUIvIENI S
trUUPJ°f v Rl l`ORNEY4 S ul-i= 1CE
On this the ~~nd day of .JaIU.AaT"y c~01, ~.tpon motion made by
Commissioner Williams, Seconded by Lomnnssioner 1laldwin, the
Co~_irt unanimously approved, by a vote of 3-0-0, to transfer
~1,~50.~0 from Line item No. 10-4t~7-571 Contingency F~_rnd to
Line item PJo. 10-475-48~ Ins~_iranr_e l_iatiility and iss~_~e a
hand check. The Oo~_uity Ruditor and 1`he Uo~_tnty Treasurer are
autt-~orized to issue a hand check in the amo~_rnt of 9s1,c:5k~.~Li~~
to NDRi'~ Insurance Service Office.