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I N D E X
March 26, 2001
PAGE
---	Commissioners' Comments	3
1.1	Pay Bills ~ oc lD-`, ~j~j	6
1.2	Budget Amendments it~,t~rt3'`~-~~p935	7
1.3	Late Bills.-2~o4uu	13
1.4	Approve and Accept Monthly Reports ~ ~~r~H~	15
2.1	Semi-annual Chamber of Commerce/KEDF update p`5	15
2.7	Request by Second Ark Foundation to establishl~	n
	wildlife resource center in Flat Rock Park ~(yC~V({Q	27
2.3	Proclamation declaring April aS ~~ ~ ~ ~
t~	
	"Clean Up Our Act" month	37
2.9	Policy/procedures at Animal Control Facility	38
2.5	Abandoning maintenance of Verde Mesa llrive E,	
	in Vista Ridge Estates~3~~~3	72
2.6	Concept plan for mobile home park, Lot 12,i]~q~	
	J.L. Nichols Subdivision	77
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2.7	~
Preliminary revision of plat, Tract 53A,'~(a	
	Kerrville Country Estates, Section II ~ ~~ X5-82
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2.8	Award annual bids, Road & Bridge materia	8
2.9	Granting extension for receipt of RFP's for p~~~
~	~
	communications system, Sheriff's Department t	94
2.10	Allow Sheriff to purchase spare TLETS printer	
	from unexpended Capital Outlay monies~~lp~`-~~	95
2.11	New contract for inmate telephone system ~ a~yhq~j	98
2.12	Approve contract with McCulloch County to house	
	their inmates at County Jail sk ~l~~i~~1	104
2.13	Renew Sheriff's Office lease agreement with	
	Kerrville Telephone Company ~ ~Cv~5"b	105
2.14	Discussion of lower level construction O~y	107
2.15	Review Section 6.04, Kerr County Subdivision p"~~	
	Rules, determine if modifications are neede~i~ly---y	117
2.16	Approval of reserved parking plan, lower ~evel	131
2.17	Resolution in favor of Hill Country State	
	Representative District ~ ~1n~5 ~-	134
2.18	Resolution reaffirming support for TexDOT	
	Spur 98/High Bridge project ~.'2'^'~S~'	137
2.19	Certificate of Substantial Completion fci Phase	
	3A and 3B, authorize County Judge to sign ~p~15~	138
--- Adjourned 143
--- Reporter's Certificate 144
L S
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On Monday, March 26, 2001, a special meeting of the Kerr
County Commissioners Court was held in the Commissioners'
Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and Lkie
following prcceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. It's 9 o'clock
in the morning on March the Zbth, and we'll call to order
this regular Special Session of the Kerr County
Commissioners Court. Commissioner Baldwin, I believe you're
up this morning.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am, sir. If y'ail
would stand and pray with me, please?
Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any
citizen wishing to address the Court on an item not listed
cn the regular agenda may come forward -and do so. Is there
any citizen who would like to address the Court on an item
not listed on the regular agenda? Once again, is there any
citizen who would like to address the Court on an item not
listed on the regular agenda! Seeing nine, we'll move to
the Commissioners comments. Let's begin with Commissioner
Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I have one
item here, Judge, that -- and I didn't receive it until
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Friday, so it couldn't be an agenda item, but I just want to
bring it to the attention of the community. I've --
Commissioner -- not commissioner, Representative Hilderbran
Forestry Service stating that in the fires of last year,
that -- they say that they have managed to get substantial
federal funding directed to Texas for the replacement of
fences damaged and destroyed by wildfire. It's called the
Fence Replacement Program, with 100 percent reimbursement.
So, that's basical]y the -- the letter, and it gives the
guidelines and outlines and a form to fill out if anyone's
interested. I'm going to leave it with Mrs. Sovil in the
Commissioners Court's office, if anyone in the community
would like to -- and I'm hoping the press would pick up and
say something about this. Like to -- if you had some fences
damaged in the fires last year, that there is some funding
available for you. That's all. I could talk about Tivy
High School track and my son for two or three hours, but we
don't have time.
DODGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSlUNER WILLIAMS: I'll give you my
time, if you like. I have nothing, Judge.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a couple. Several
weeks ago, when we were discussing redistricting, somehow I
ended up with the task of visiting with Tivy High Schocl. I
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think I made the comment that Tivy High School is in my
precinct; therefore, I got the job of finding some students
that would like to participate in our Redistricting
Committee. Principal Schwartz met with his government
classes -- or teachers met with them, and have come up w~Lki
three names. I'm going to submit these names to be added to
our Redistricting Committee: Christopher Schneider, Marisa
Rangel, and Sarah Feed. The only ether comment that I have
is that Little League season starts up Saturday, and main
reason I'm bringing it up is that means congestion on
Highway 27. It becomes a nightmare for the nexC, probably,
three months, so everyone just please be careful. There's
lots of traffic every afternoon from now thxuugh June, and
we've been very fortunate in prior years, last year
especially with construction on Highway 27. We didn't have
any bad incidents, but it's something to always be aware of,
'cause there will be lots oT kids and lots of traffic in
that area for the comLnq months.
DODGE HENNEKE: All right. Commissioner
Griffin?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No comments.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. I would note that
the curfew -- the county-wide juvenile curfew goes into
effect this coming Sunday, April 1st, and the Sheriff's
Department has been working diligently to get the word out
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to the schools and will begin to enforce that ordinance on
Sunday, April the 1st. With that reminder, I also want Yo
give my thanks to the Sheriff's Department and other law
enforcement for the very capable handling of the incident
week before last involving the individual who harmed several
of our citizens and led them on a wild chase for some 36, 48
hours. Luckily, we don't have that happen very often in our
community, but we're even more lucky that we have
well-trained and well-led law enforcement officials who take
their job seriously and interpose themselves between us --
between the bad guys and the rest of the community. I think
we all owe a great deal of gratitude to all of the law
enforcement agencies who were involved, as well as those
citizens who stepped forward and assisted law enforcement
very capably so that we had as successful an outcome to that
incident as possible, and our thanks to all of you for your
good work and service to the community. Now, let's pay some
bills, Mr. Auditor. Anyone have any questions or comments
regarding the bills as presented?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we pay the bills.
CUMM1551UNElt BALUWIN: Second.
DODGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court authorize
payment of the bills as recommended and presented by the
Auditor. Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor,


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raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget
amendments.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 1 is a request
from the County Clerk to transfer $128.16 from Computer
Software to Capital Outlay. This is -- this amount is an
over -- over -- well, actually, underestimate of her budget
for -- for Capital Outlay in her two offices, both in the
County Clerk's office and -- and voting. So, this -- this
amendment is to -- to correct that line item.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court
approve Budget Amendment Number 1 for the County Clerk. Any
further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(NO response.)
JODGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number ~ is
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for the Agricultural Extension Service.
MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request by Eddie
Holland to transfer $197.02 from Stock Show Travel to
Reimbursed Travel. I have a late bill from Laurinda Boyd
Tor $479.25, and it's for her to be reimbursed travel
expenses to stock show.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, I don't understand
the transfer. I mean, the receipt shows that it was for the
annual stock show. Why doesn't it come under Stock Show?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's not her travel.
That's for the agent's travel.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR.. TOMLINSON: There's a separate line item
just for her travel.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So moved.
COMMISSIONER. GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve
Budget Amendment Request Number 2 and authorize issuance of
a hand check to Laurinda Boyd in the amount of $474.25 as
reimbursement for lodging expense. Any further questions or
comments?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a comment.
Go back and look. We do this every year, this exact same
triiug, and something needs -- we need to adjust it upward or
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as Y, her to quit going or something. I don't know the
answer, but we do this every year, come back and adjust the
budget.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments'? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 is
for the District Clerk's Office.
MR. TOMLINSON: 'Phis is a -- this request is
from the District Clerk, to transfer $1,000 from Part-Time
Salaries to OL£ice Supplies. I think it has something to do
with -- with the change -- moving her office, for additional
supplies for I LYiink -- I know for two more full-time
employees, for one thing. So, that's her request.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 50 moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court
approve Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for the District
Clerk. Any further questions or comments? IE not, all in
favor, raise your right Band.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
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(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4,
again, for the County Clerk's office.
MF.. TOMLINSON: We're striking the first part
of this about the Capital Outlay. This they brought back to
the Court under a separate agenda item, and so we'll pick up
on the -- on the bottom part of this request from the County
Clerk to transfer $215 from Election Notices to -- to
Supplies on that -- in that department.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMiSS10NER LE'1'Z: Second.
DODGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner
Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court
approve Budget Amendment P.equest Number 4 in the amount of
$215, to be transferred from Election Notices to Supplies
for the County Clerk's office. Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
DODGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 5 is Courthouse
Security.
MR. TOMLINSGN: This -- this request is
brought about by the -- the change in personnel in -- as the
security officer in this department, due to the fact that
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the person that is replacing the person that retired is a
higher grade. In the budget process, we budgeted for the --
for the grade of the person that was currently in that
position. To -- in order to have funds available for the
remainder of the year, we need $2,315.11 in the Deputy
Salary, $176.48 in FICA Expense, $527.63 in Group Insurance,
and $179.92 in Retirement, and I'm -- my -- my request is to
take this from -- from surplus funds in that -- in that
funding. And there are surplus funds available.
JUDGE HENNEKE: There is a specific
Courthouse Security fund?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: For our -- there are excess
funds in that?
MR. TOMLINSON: In that Lund, yes.	
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved.	
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.	
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner	
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the	Court
approve budget Amendment Request Number 5, and that	the
funds from this request come from the excess funds i	n the
Courthouse Security line item in the budget.	
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The change is due	to
basically length cf service? I mean, it's the same	--
MR. TOMLINSON: Has to do with the --	has to
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do with the qualifications or -- or the educational
background of the -- of the person who -- who is now in that
position.
JUDGE HENNEKE: As part of the salary
adjustment made last year, we gave law enforcement people a
step up if they had additional certificates.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this fund comes
from fees from the courts and that kind of thing?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not -- doesn't
come out of the taxpayers' --
MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We need to make it clear that
this will constitute a budget emergency and we're going to
have to break into that reserve fund for this specific
purpose.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Is everyone clear now where
we are? Any further questions or comments? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number
5 is for the County Treasurer.
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MR. TOMLINSON: This request is from the
Treasurer, Barbara Nemer_, to transfer $181 from Computer
Supplies to Office Supplies.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner
Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court
approve Budget Amendment Request Number 6 for the County
Treasurer's office. Any further questions or comments? If
not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we have
any late bills?
MR. TOMLINSON: I have one, and it's payable
to the County/District Clerk's Association, for registration
for an area meeting on March the 30th, and it's for $80.
DODGE HENNEKE: Motion to approve the late
bill and hand check in the amount of $80?
COMMISSIONER GN.1FP'1N: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
DODGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court
approve a 1aLe bill and a hand check payable to the County

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and District Clerk's Association, Region IV, in the amount
of $80. Any further questions or comments? If nor, all in
favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion r_arries.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, before we let
Tommy go, I've got a question, because -- and -- and
Commissioner Baldwin hit on it a moment ago, but this --
this is an item that repeatedly we have reprogrammed money
for, et cetera, and there are other areas where I suspect
there may be the same kind of thing at budget time. Will
the software that we have produce a listing of all the
budget amendments by department?
MR. TOMLINSON: Sure.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because it would be
good to have that to see what happened in previous years.
It's a little hard to remember every one of these things we
approved, but if we see a consistent pattern and a
particular line item is short-funded, and something is
long-funded that we're offsetting i.t with, then we ought to
maY.e an adjustment during budget process.
MR. TOMLINSON: Our financial reports all --
also show what the -- what the revised budget is, too. So,
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that's a good indication, also, of what needs to be --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. Okay, thanks.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. At this time, I would
entertain a motion to approve and accept the monthly reports
as presented.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
DODGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve and
accept the monthly reports as presented. Any further
questions or comments? If not, all in Tavor, raise your
right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. We'll
move straight into the consideration agenda. The first item
for consideration is the semiannual update from Sherry
Cunningham on behalf of the Kerrville Area Chamber of
Commerce and the Kerrville Economic Development Foundation.
Good morning.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning, Judge. Good
morning, Commissioners. It's always good to he here witYi
you. Looks like have you another long agenda today. I've
got some handouts I'm going to leave with you so I can keep
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my report as brief as possible, so you can go on and get --
aet to the business at hand. For the record, I am Sherry
I live at 934 Bluebonnet here in Kerrville. I
Foundation. And, you know, when we first started doing
these reports, I thought it's just something more I need to
do, but I really have found that it's very beneficial, and
I -- I think this is probably a really good move on our
part. We've done this for a number of years now, and
hopefully it helps keep you informed on the work of the
Economic Development Foundation, and also allows you to ask
any questions if you have any.
Economic development is really a program that
doesn't have a -- a real changing environment. Uur goals
are -- are more long -- long-term goals, and this past year
we've spent a lot of time on physician recruitment, as well
as working on the possibility of developing a multi-use
business park for our area. You might wonder why we have
been working on physician recruitment. This -- health care
is a major industry in our community, and -- and our
community has had a -- a shortage of primary care
physicians, basically internal medicine physicians, which in
turn has an effect on not only the hospital, but also the
nursing homes, the assisted living and things like that.
And, so, since this is such -- retirement is a big industry
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here and health care is a big industry here, this is
be able to help attract three or four more internal medicine
physicians over the ne:ct year. The committee has -- has
really identified that we need two or three a year for the
next two or three years just to keep up with -- with the
workload.
The other key item that we've been paying
attention to primarily over the last year is the development
of a multi-use business park. Actually, we started this
effort about two years ago. When we have people, whether
they're already here in business or whether they're looking
at moving to the Kerrville area, when they come to us and
they're asking about available buildings or places where
they can develop their business, we pretty much are full-up.
We have been for a while. We really don't have an inventory
of vacant buildings of any size that are in the appropriate
areas to be zoned for manufacturing, processing, and things
like that. Transportation plays a big role in some of this.
Sometimes when we have a company that's wanting to expand
and get -- they're dealing in trucks and whatever, and so
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several years ago, the Kerr Economic Development Foundation
made a pledge to start working on vahat would it take to
-- and try to have something that would be appropriate for
our existing businesses that want t.o expand and grow, as
well as if there's somebody who warts to come here, and so
we did a lot of work on that last year.
We were to the point we did a feasibility --
a concept design on one parcel. We -- we had narrowed it
down to about -- about three different areas. One of the
biggest challenges we had was trying to identify 50 acres of
flat land in tkie Hill Country. So -- you know, it's
wonderful to live here, but when you start looking at an
area like that, it's a challenge.
So, just as we were kind of getting to the
point where we thought that we had a site identified in
going further, we had a private developer come to us and
say, hey, I'd really like to do this through the private
sector, and so we opted to put our efforts on hold and to
work with him, as he i5 working to do this through the
private sector. And, so far, it has been very beneficial
and we've -- we've maintained a good communication with him,
and -- and working with the city as well to develop the
building standards and to start the process of -- of trying
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to briny phis to fruition. So, anyway, that project
continues. It is something that's not going to happen
overnight. IL's something that we're looking at very
carefully because as we work on this concept, we want to
make sure that iC is a park that will complement our area.
Complement and make an opportunity for those businesses that
are here, as well as -- as be something that we're all proud
of.
I did bring you a semiannual report to give
you some statistics. 1'11 just leave those with you. I
also brought you a copy of Lhe recently, I guess, updated
Transportation Improvement Program from TexDOT. You know,
cae get that report every yeas from Bill Tucker's office, and
he was at a meeting that I was at a few weeks ago and gave
us some different dates, so I bruuyht you a copy of that for
Kerr County. Over the next three years, about $25 million
worth of TexDOt projects are going Lo be happening here, and
I think that's phenomenal, and that's a result o£ all of us
working together and going to those meetings and putting
those issues and concerns out there in Yront of TexDOT,
those needs that we have in our community. P.nd so I will
share that with you so you can kind of see where we are on
that.
I do want to remind you that this Wednesday
at 5:30 is the public hearing for the High Walex Bridge
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project,	or they	call it	the	Thompson	Drive	extension.	It's
known by	lots of	things,	but	anyway,	it's to	kind of --	the
continuation of Thompson Drive over across the bridge coming
out at Arcadia Loop, and so that will be out at KPUB. I
think you have that on your agenda a little later in the
day, and I encourage to you continue your positive support
of that cause. I think that's going to be something that's
really important for our community.
A couple of little things on the side.
Several months ago, a representative from U.G. P.. A. and
Headwaters and myself got together and we started -- water
resource is such an issue, we got together and formed a
little task force to start looking at ways that we could
provide some education to not only our existing citizenry,
but also to people who are looking at coming into this area,
so they would understand what type of community we are as
far as water resources and what is available, so there
wouldn't be any misunderstandings there. The last meeting
we -- we named that the Water Education '1'askforce, and the
acronym is WET. I thought that was pretty cute, Fred. But,
anyway, we continue to do that. We're working on a brochure
that will not only give water saving tips and -- and a
little audit where people can use that in their business or
their home ro understand maybe how they're wasting water,
and we hope to carry this throughout the community. It's
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just new getting started, but I think it's er,citing.
In closing, I just want to tell you also
about our clean-up time that the Chamber organizes every
year. April has been deemed "Clean Up Your Act" month. We
have all kind of activities going on throughout Kerr County
throughout April, not just by the Chamber, but different
entities. And what we're trying to do is communicate those
different opportunities, whether that's hazardous waste
cleanup or getting rid of old computers or going out and
pir_king up trash. So, we support your efforts in that. I'm
going to give you these reports. If you have any questions,
you certainly are welcome to ask me today, or if something
comes up after you take a look at this, then feel free t~
give me a call at any time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1 have a comment,
Judge. Sherry, you may or may not be aware that the
R.C.& D. folks are planning a publication also that deals
with things you should know with respect to living in the
Hill Country.
MS. CONNINGHAM: Good.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anfl a representative
from U.G.R.A. is on that as well, so there may be some
crossover opportunities.
MS. CrJNNINGHAM: Good.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or avoiding
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duplicating --
MS. CUNNINGHAM: That's good. We'll get in
contact with them. I was not aware of that. I think the --
the important part about this education process, at the last
meeting we made a list of other entities to invite to serve
on that task force so we wouldn't have duplication, and
that's a group that we can include in this also. And, what
we want to do is to come up with a -- with a publication
with a brochure that can be distributed at all of these
different venues, so we're all telling the same story and
working together on this in a cohesive manner, and --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that`s their
feeling, as well.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: You bet. We'11 get in touch
with them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sherry, is this the same
group That Janet Robinson's --
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just wanted to make sure
there wasn't another --
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- another group.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Is our invitation to be in
that group in the mail?
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir, iL is.
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DODGE HENNEKE: Good.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Actually --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The water -- I got it
late last week.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: See there? You thought you
caught us.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure it --
MS. CUNNINGHAM: I was thinking, I hope
Jannett got that out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was sent -- I
can't remember if it was specifically to the County or to
Region J, but it was kind of to both, from our phone
conversation.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. And, you know, right
now it's -- it's a matter of we were all kind of thinking
the same thing, and instead of sitting around and
duplicating efforts, we decided to put our heads together
and see what we could come up with. And, so far, we have a
draft of the brochure and we've outlined different marketing
things that can possibly be put in hotels about water saving
tips, carrying it on into the school system and starting --
kind of like the recycling issue a few years ago, where you
start with the children and work up, and the parents will
learn also. So, I think, you know, it's a huge task in
front of us, but it's something that everybody is really
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excited about and -- and it's -- when you get that kind of
excitement on that -- a group like that or within that
group, then you'll see those things that will happen.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sherry, I have a
question for you. Three or four years ago, I remember
seeing letters between you and Mooney Aircraft going bac}:
and forth, and a lot of them, and some of their desires
asking for help out of the community and water and sewer and
building facilities and all those kind of things. And, I
think the -- I think that the -- the community effort --
you, City, us -- all of us together have provided for the
water and sewer out there for them.
MS. CONNINGHAM: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you have had --
offered your services of helping them find some grants and
some things like that. I remember numerous letters back and
forth, and I haven't heard anything until just recently I
saw a letter come through here, and it was exactly the same
letter I saw four years ago, of them asking for some help.
Did they ever bite on your offers of seeking grants and
things?
MS. CUNNINGHAM: At three different times,
We had worked with -- and this goes back to former owners.
I'll be here eight years this summer, so yes, for several
years you've seen this. We were very strongly recummeuding
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that Texas Capital Fund, because that really is the
appropriate -- or probably the best opportunity for a
funding venue for us to be able to do that. And, at three
different times, we -- the first two times got very close to
being ready to submit that information, and for some season
or another it was -- was discontinued on the efforts of
Mooney, at. their request. And, so, 1 did talk with Mx. Dopp
again a couple of weeks ago and reminded him about that
program again. So, you know, until he's ready Lo -- to --
it does take a commitment on the part of the company to be
able to go through that. It's -- it's a huge pxucess, and
it has to be -- the Ter,as Capital Fund has to be accessed by
a government entity, whether it's the City or the County, on
behalf of an industry. And -- but there is a lot of --
there's a lot of bookkeeping involved in iL, like, a lot of
rerordkeepinq, a lot of detail, and it is something that has
to be looked at very realistically.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure this Court
would be willing to sit down and take a look at that
MS. CONNINGHAM: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIUNER BALDWIN: -- process, but I
think that it needs to -- one of the steps -- early steps is
the ownership of Mooney Aircraft needs to take their little
steps before it gets to us.
MS. CONNINGHAM: That's right.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I don't know -- I
was a little disturbed by some of this ugly stuff. And, I
mean, we're willing -- I think we're willing to look at it.
I'm just speaking for myself, but I think we're willing to
look at it if he'll take those steps that are required of
him.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Well, all I can do is to
remind him occasionally, so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. Thank you
for your work on that.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'he number of hours
expended by the Mooney task force on this particular effort
are -- is large. The amount of time.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, I actually -- I think
one of the wisest things we did was to form the Mooney task
force, because we had representatives of the City and County
and industry, businesses come together to try to communicate
those different things. And, we have looked at other grant
programs, but there -- they are very few and far between
today. And, I kncw the State is right now looking at that
Texas Capital Fund and looking at their economic development
programming to see if, you know, they can make some changes,
and that's hot and heavy right now in front of the
Legislature, but I don't know what the results will be. So,
currently, that's about all there is we can offer. Any
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other questions?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate your
working on that. You have a lot more patience than I do
with that.
MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir.
DODGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Sherry.
Appreciate the effort.
MS. CONNINGHAM: Thanks, appreciate it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item Tor discussion is
Item Number 2, consider and discuss a request by the Second
Ark Foundation, which is a 501(c1(~) foundation associated
with the Exotic Wildlife Association, to establish a
resource center in Flat Rock Lake Park. Mr. Waggoman,
welcome.
MR. WAGGOMAN: Judge Henneke, members oL the
Court, good morning. I'm John Waggoman. I'm president of
the Second Ark Foundation, which is a subsidiary o£ Lhe
Exotic Wildlife Association and was created as a nonprofit
in 1995. The purpose of our organization is to educate the
general public as to the advantages of game ranching and
wildlife conservation and what part hunting plays in the
conservation of wildlife and its habitat. The Second Ark
Foundation began to develop a concept of an educational
center, a resource center which would involve the
participation of Parks and Wildlife, Animal Health
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Commission and other agencies which are dedicated to
Mid last year, Bill Lang -- which I'm sure
of mounts and a considerable amount of money to put this
resource center together. The exhibit gallery will be named
the Isawahnini William F. Lang Memorial Gallery. Now,
isawahnini is a Zulu word that Bill picked up while he was
hunting in Atrica, which means a place where the animals
stay, so he felt like that would be very fitting, and we did
too. So, the board of directors of our organization asked
attention that the County did have space in some of its
parks, so I wanted to -- I came in and visited with Judge
Henneke about obtaining a location in one of the parks. We
want to involve the public, to educate them on all aspects
of wildlife, perhaps establish a walk.-through archery range,
maybe a -- an air gun rifle range, educate the children on
gun safety. I am unaware of a firearms safety program,
other than the hunter safety program that is conducted in
the area, and I don't think there has been one since
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Schreiner Institute closed its R.O.T.C. program.
Sut, we want to involve all of those people,
all of the community, in efforts to enjoy the outdoors and
the wilderness areas. If we were able to establish a
location within the county park, then the common areas would
serve both for the resource center, its members, and the
general public, and we would not be needing a 1G-acre tract
as originally thought. So, I am here this morning to
investigate the possibility of establishing our resource
center within one of the county parks, maybe the Kerr County
Fair Park or Flat Rock Lake Park. I will answer whatever
questions the Court may have.
DODGE HENNEKE: Thank you for coming,
Mr. Waggoman. It's an interesting proposition. Does anyone
have any questions at this time? Any questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is the facility -- I'm
sorry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead
COMMISSIONER. GRIFFIN: Is the facility, as
sketched here, fully funded at this point?
MR.. WAGGOMAN: The -- I have enough money to
build a shell. That's 10,000 -- proposed 10,000-foot
building, and I have visited with a professional engineer in
the area, and he is of the opinion Lkiat, yes, we can build a
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complete shell. Not finish out on the inside; however,
there are alternatives to finishing out the entire project.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I know you showed
you, and you asked me about it and I said, you know, pretty
much -- I think we talked and said put it on the agenda,
let's discuss it. The only really county park that would
even be suitable possibly is Flat Rock or that facility,
that whole complex; out there. My personal feeling is that
the Aa complex, which is basically frontage on Highway 27,
is hands-off until we decide what we're going to do
long-term with that facility from a construction standpoint,
which frees up Flat Rock Park. The majority of that -- I
don't know if ycu've been out to the park and looked at it,
both sides --
MR. WAGGOMAN: Yes, I have.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The majority, if not all
of the building sites on the -- I guess the west side of
Third Creek is in a floodway, which can't be used. That
moves us over to the new tra~~t of land we bought, which has
an access situation, let's say; it's not real easy to get in
and out of there. Is that -- to me, that's the only site
that I can see as even, you know, a possibility. Would that
site, which would not have any view or, you know, not be on
Highway 27, be an acceptable location from y'all's
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standpoint?
MR. WAGGOMAN: I'm not real familiar --
really familiar with the site that you're talking about,
other than what is the -- along Riverside Drive and along
the lakefront. Now, I did notice there appeared to be an
island of -- on the -- beyond that does have an access
problem.
	COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not the	island.
	MR. WAGGOMAN: Beg pardon?	
	COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not ttie	island.
	MR. WAGGOMAN: Not an island, al	l right.
	COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where it is,	it's the --
and it would	probably be best, maybe, if the Co	urt wants to
pursue this,	you know, I can meet you or one of	us can meet
you out ther	e, show you exactly where the other	part of the
property is.	But, if you're familiar with the	Swap Shop --
	MR. WAGGOMAN: Yes.	
	COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- there's a	driveway
that goes --	you go up to the Swap Shop. Just	on the west
side of it t	here is a driveway that goes down t	o a big open
area. That'	s the area now, I guess, called the	new portion
of the park.		
MR. WAGGOMAN: My initial request to the
Foundation was I need a location with at least 1 acre above
the 100-year floodplain for our improvements. The rest
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could be wilderness area for our recreation. So, if that
does exist there, we would like to take a look at it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's
probably -- I mean, I know a portion of that, though it's
not much above the floodplain, but that would be -- I mean,
it's -- it's a remote location, is the best way to phrase
it, I think. But, I think that I -- to me, that's the only
site that I know of the County has that's even potentially
available. I think the other question that I'd have before
it went too much further is kind of look a little bit ba~~k,
I guess, more into the organization as to, you know, who the
directors are, who -- I mean, kind of more exactly who the
individuals are that we're doing business with. I think
that whenever the County's going to get in any kind of a
relationship like this, we need to be very careful as to who
and exactly what the purpose is.
MR. WAGGOMAN: Quite understandable.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any
questions?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only thing, just
following up on what Commissioner i,etz said, that new piece
or new addition to the Flat Rock Lake Park is probably the
manly one Lhat satisfies your criteria for being above the
100-year floodplain, but it doesn't give you much if any
higt-sway exposure. You'd have to take care of that yourself
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some other way, because if you qo out there, you'll find out
yourself that you're going to have to find that road and go
on down there to it. But --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The question I have
is, assuming we were to pursue thi=, is what sort of legal
arrangement we would have, whether it would be a
dollar-a-year lease on land or whatever. There would have
to be some very careful legal and -- and particularly legal
liability issues to be considered in all of that, which I
think we probably will ask our County Attorney to get
involved wir_h at some point.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All that would obviously have
to be worked out. 1 think what we need to decide today is
whether this is a concept that the Court wishes to pursue.
Do wz want to take it further and work with the Foundation
to determine who we're dealinq with, work on the legal
issues, see if we can find a suitable location and concept?
And I think -- if we want to do that, I think probably the
appropriate way to do that is to appoint -- or have
volunteers for a subcommittee to work with the Second Ark
Foundation to c~mz back with a recommendation. What's the
sense of the Court? Is this something we want to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very simply --
JUDGE HENNEKE: -- pursue?
COMMISSIONE P. BALDWIN: -- I've got a couple
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of questions that I want to ask Mr. Waqgoman, but before I
do that, I nominate Mr. Letz to handle that.
JODGE HENNEKE: Ask your question.
COMMISSIONER SALDWIN: Okay. Mr. Waggoman,
on your note here, you`re requestir_g 8 to 10 acres total.
One acre of that would be for the resource center, itself.
MR. WAGGOMAN: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- and then you
also state in here the wilderness area, which is the
remainder of that 10 acres, could be used by other
organisations.
MR. WAGGOMAN: My original thought to my
Foundation was that would -- the 10 acres would give us
sufficient area for outdoor recreation. If, in fact, we
were in a park situation, then we would not need 10 acres.
A11 the remaining area could probably be used in common with
the general public.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ten acres seems like
an awful --
MR. WAGGOMAN: Lot of property?
COMMISSIONER BALUWIN: Awful lot of property
to -- and I really do not understand -- I'm not clear what
your -- what you triad wanted to use that wilderness area for.
MR. WAGGOMAN: Well, as I said, for nature
study, trails, studies of plants, ar_imals, whatever
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occurred, plus maybe a walk-through archery place just for
the recreation area.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this.
You say here the wilderness area could be used by -- in
common by others. What about -- wYiat about the facility
itself? I mean, I can't see a bunch of third graders goinq
there and swinging from the elephant tusks and that kind of
thing, but is -- do you envision to it where -- I mean, is
this -- part of this kind of an outside area to have -- that
we could take -- Jon and I have always talked about having a
facility there where we could bring down the elementary --
or schools from the E:err County public school system to do
exactly what you're talkinq about, but I would think that we
would have a facility for that. And, I'm -- what I'm seeing
you say is that -- that it would be commonly used for that
in the outside area, but what about the building?
MR. WAGGOMAN: 1 think there -- there would
be -- within our classrooms and library, it would be open to
the general public, because without the public participation
and the local community participation, we would not survive.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'm liking it
more now. I'll second my own motion to get Letz to do it.
!'OMMISSIUNER WILLIAMS: I don't have any
problem with it. I think the idea has merit. If the Court
decides it wants to pursue it further and Mr. Letz needs
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some help, I'll be happy to do it.
J[JD~E HENNEKE: I think we have two -- we
have one volunteer and one designee. Does the designee want
to be a volunteer?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be glad -- I really
think the first step is to show Mr. Waggoman the location,
because, you know, I'm -- I'm concerned that it may not work
for y'all. I mean, it is a -- there is an access issue
there, and it's hard -- it's -- you know, if y'all -- if
your Foundation was able to improve that access, it would
probably -- it would work, but there is a -- I mean, there's
a problem right there right now, 'cause it's very difficult
to get into that park and it's dangerous, I think, also. We
need to work with TexDOT, and we've already talked to Bill
Tucker about what needs to be done from trie 'PexUUT
standpcint to improve that dangerous intersection where
the -- where the entrance to the park is. I'd be glad to
meet with you and go over the location, and then if it -- if
that works from your standpoint, then we can proceed on the
legal ramifications and who the organization exactly is and
-- and how to maybe structure this whole thing to accomplish
your goals, and maybe some of our goals to have some
community space out there.
MR. WAGGOMAN: Fine.
JODGE HENNEKE: I believe I have a nwtion
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from Commissioner Baldwin to appoint a committee composed of
Commissioner Letz and Commissioner Williams to work with Mr.
Waggoman on the concept. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll second his
motion.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Second by Commissioner
Griffin. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir.
MR. WAGGOMAN: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We appreciate the idea. Next
item on the agenda is Item Number 3, consider and discuss a
proclamation declaring the month of April 2001 as "Clean Up
Our Act" month. The proclamation in your packets was
basically provided by Chamber of Commerce. Does anyone have
any questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner. Griffin, that the Court
adopt the proclamation declaring the month of April, Year
2001, to be "Clean Up Our Act" month fcL Kerr County. Any
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further questions cr comments? If not, all in favor, raise
your right hands.
fThe motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number
4, consider and discuss policy and procedures at the Animal
Control Facility. Commissioner Griffin.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This one came to me by
telephone. Mr. Larry Harris, I think, is here to address
the Court on this. Mr. Harris?
MR. HARRIS: Hi. My name is Larry Harris.
I've lived in Kerrville for -- Kerrville area for 25 years.
I live in west Kerr County. Basically, I really don't want
to get into any in-depth problems, other than the fact that
I have a petition that has been sent around the town. I've
been able to work on it, limited, but the response has been
incredible. I've qot over 600 people that agree with me,
and we probably -- I could probably get 95 percent of the
people in Kerr County. I had one person that told me that
they didn't want to get involved out of all the people that
I've talked to.
I've been with numerous groups of people --
and this -- this is in regard to the 98-hour kill at the
Animal Control. This is what 1 -- the issue. I sYiould have
v r ~~ a ~
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said that first. But, I've talked to numerous people about
it. I have real strong feelings about it. It's very
difficult for me to even talk about it. 1 know Animal
Control's got a really difficult job. It's very hard. I
couldn't do it. And I'm a hunter, and I still couldn't do
it. I feel that there's some issues, some problems at
Animal Control. Like, for instance, when I first came here,
I didn't know y'all's rules of how to speak to you guys.
Well, people come into my office, they don't know my Lines
either. And I feel that we need -- Animal Control has got
some problems.
I brought a board along as a sample that I'm
going to give to Animal Control, a sign that needs to be
placed at Animal Control telling exact procedures for the
people that walk in. I feel that some animals have been put
to death that shouldn't have because telephone numbers were
not gotten, logs were not kept on them. And, I'm sure that
you've got personnel running 16 different directions, and I
feel that some large sign, even -- even larger than that --
we're giving that to the Animal Control to help them. It
should be placed on there to leL everybody know that they
should give their names, what they lost, their address and
several phone numbers. A day phone number, a night phone
number, so they can -- and then I think it's mandatory --
should be made mandatory that Animal Control all people

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that work at Animal Control should look at the ]ogs. I
think there's things slipping through the cracks there, and
in most businesses that happens. We're all human.
First off, I wanted to give the petitions to
the Court. I have over 600 people in Kerr County. These
are taxpayers, over 18 years of age. They feel the same way
I do. In fact, like I said, I firmly believe that I could
probably get 95 percent of this -- of this county to sign
this petition. We -- we do not agree with 48-hour kill.
We -- we feel -- we're asking for 5-day -- five working
days. I know that's going to put a strain on economy. Just
like this morning, I've heard the comment many times from
this -- from the people here, "Let's raise our taxes. I'll
be glad to pay for whatever needs ~o be done." But, what's
going on in f:err County is wrong. It's real wrong, And
this is a direct reflection on us, the people in Kerr
County. And, basically, that's all I've got to say.
T'm -- I know that financial -- this is going
to put a financial burden on a lot of, maybe, the County.
Maybe we need to try to figure out how to solve the problem.
I'm also on the Board of Directors at the Humane Society,
and I can remember times several years ago where we had real
difficulty making payroll. It was tough. we were trying to
figure how we're going to pay our employees. And, since
that time, we've worked hard at it. We're -- and we're way
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in the black now. We're in great shape, better shape than
we've ever been. And I'm not going to try to tell you guys
how to do your job on this. I mean, there's a lot of
different directions we can take on this. But, I -- people
of Kerr County do not want the 4tS-hour kill, and I think
we've got some problems and issues of things falling through
the cracks at Animal Control. And I'm not going to attack
any individual cases. There's been a lot of individual
cases that have been brought up. Last few months, I've
heard some horror stories, some absolute horror stories to
me. I'm just absolutely appalled, and so were the people of
Kerr County appalled that this is going on. It's time that
we make a change.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Larry, let me say to
you that what I appreciate about what you're doing is -- and
we don't know of everything. I mean, we don't stay out in
all of our departments every day. You know, it's impossible
to do that. But you've brought us -- you brought a problem
to us, and you're bringing some solutions with that, and I
appreciate that very much. But, I want ro ask you a
question. You said you heard this morning, and you hear it
a lot, that -- that we need to raise some taxes on the
issue. I haven't_ heard that yet. What were you referring
to?
MP.. HARRIS: Well, iY you need additional
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funds to make the enlargement of -- Kerr County has grown a
whole bunch in the 25 years I've been here. It's been
amazing, the changes in Kerr County. The traffic is -- it
almost reminds me of Houston. I kind of laugh about it,
'cause it's -- when I first came here 25 years ago, there
wasn't much traffic, much -- much industry and all. I'm
really glad to see the town grow. I'm even to -- I'm 53
years old. I consider myself one of the -- a younger person
in Kerr County, and I'd like to see Kerr County grow. I
would like to see everybody in this town prosper. And, I --
of course, I'm in the business of trying to sell homes to
people, and there's a lot of problems with that issue here
in Kerr County, which I don't -- that's another complete
issue. But, if taxes need to be raised, I'm for it. I
just --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would we raise
taxes? I want to stay on that just for a second, if you
would.
MR. HARRIS: Okay. If we had to raise taxes
to build a bigger facility, to expand the facility that we
have so that we could have a heavier carrying capacity.
Alternatives -- there are alternatives that you can -- at
one time we were leasing Freeman-Fritz for overflow. That
could be done in the interim period. I know that I would
sure hate for my animal to be put down. I have a
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16-year-old black lab that cannot wear a collar, and I know
that there is irresponsible people in this town, but there
is an awful lot of responsible people in Kerr County. A
tremendous amount of them, just like me, that feel the same
way I do. I know that there are some animals that are not
taken care of properly. I know that we need -- may need
funds. We may need to work on trying to get grants to
expand the facility so we can have a little longer holding
period. Whatever has to be done has to be done, and I'm not
going to -- I don't really want to get into the issue of
telling you what to do, your job, because I'm sure you
wouldn't appreciate some -- some guy from the streets coming
in here telling the County Commissioners how to do their
job.
COMMISSIUNER BHLllW1N: I don't think we'd
ever take it that way at all. I think you're making some
great suggestions. My line of questioning was -- until
your -- just your last sentence there --
MR. HARRIS: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is, are you coming
in here and telling us that our -- that we need to raise
taxes to fix this problem? Is that your -- this 600 people,
that's their attitude?
MR. HARRIS: If -- if that's the answer.
WhateveL Lhe answer is. Y'ou -- it's up to you guys to
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decide what the answer is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I would hope
that that's not the high priority here. I mean, I hope --
and I agree with you, we need to do someY_hing.
MR. HARRIS: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I would hope that
we would look at different avenues before wz just say we
need to raise taxes.
MR. HARRIS: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because if that was
Lhe case --
MR. HARRIS: Like grants and such.
COMMISSIONEK BALDWIN: -- we're going to have
to raise taxes on every person in this room, you know,
cause they have the same issues coming up. So --
MR. HARRIS: Like grants. There's all kinds
of ways of solving a problem, and maybe volunteers.
Somebody may volunteer to expand the facility out there.
The facility, I understand, was designed in such a way that
it could be expanded if needed.
COMMISSIGNER. BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. HARRIS: If it would be needed. Of
course, there's some issues about the -- the rumors have it
that we way overpaid for what we got anyhow to start with,
and that's pretty well rampant rumor in Kerr County, that
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what was -- what we actually got, we should have gotten a
lot more than. what we did get for the far_ility. But, there
is room for expansion out there, and I'd like to see some
expansion. I would like to see a little more concern about
trying to reunite animals, possibly getting a TV -- local TV
channels out there oncz a week showing the animals that are
lost, and maybe possibly reuniting the owners. There are a
lot of folks in town that arz working with the Animal
Control and probably don't even realize it. I know, for
instance, at H.S.K., we -- Monday mornings we're flooded
with lost animals, animals that have gotten lost. We try to
find, we try to reunite, we try to help the area.
Of course, I'm not representing in this
situation H.S.K. I'm representing myself. I've heard a lot
of complaints. People have come to me for a long time.
This is not something that just happened. For a long time,
complaints about what's going on in the county, and people
were appalled. And I also found that, talking to a lot of
people, the number of folks that just really weren't even
aware that we had a policy to that effect. I promote and --
and encourage spay and neuter to try to eliminate the
problems, H.S.K. does. We have about $25,000 that we have
some people that worked very hard for to try to help the
underprivileged folks where it can be done free. We're
trying to solve the county's problems also. We know it's a
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problem.
And, I hate to hear that we have to put
animals down. I know that we can't keep them all. I know
that, but I just -- there's been too many things that have
happened, way too many. I've heard complaints, just
unbelievable complaints about -- stories. There's some
folks here that really wanted to speak today that couldn't.
And the response -- again, the response I've had by talking
to folks, I didn't realize how -- how difficult this was
going to be until I got into it. To get 500 or 600
signatures is a lot of work. I work a full-time job and I'm
trying to fit this in the best I can. I've talked to people
a lot. Of course, I -- I feel very strongly about this
issue, and so it's easy to talk about, but it's still a lot
of work. But, I know that if I carried this out for however
long it needs to be, that I can get 95 percent of the people
to sign. There's some people just not going to do it. We
need to make some changes.
And, I also have something 1 want to give to
the County Commissioners. If you get a chance, pass this
tape around. It is something that came off of Discovery
channel. I'd appreciate it if you'd take 30, 95 minutes out
and watch the tape and pass it around. It goes into how
pets originated, the whole concept of pets, some of the
problems. It was a very good show. I recorded that last
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night, 'cause I think everybody would really enjoy the show.
And some -- you only gave me a few minutes to speak, so this
is y'all's to pass around.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's -- are those two
the same?
MR. HARRIS: Same thing. Same thing.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want me to take it
first, Bill?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
it.
You --
No, let's fight about
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can have it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIPI: Okay, thanks.
MR. HARRIS: I was real surprised this
morning, I had a lot of folks come up, and 1 appreciate
everybody's --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone else have any
questions of --
COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	I have	a comment.
COMMISSIONER	LETZ: I have som	e, too.
COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	Larry,	I understand
your passion for this. You	and I have	spoken	about this on
several occasions.			
MR. HARRIS:	Sure.		
COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	And I	realize you
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feel very, very strongly about it, and I am loath to bring
up this subject that brings you here today, and wouldn't,
except that it was misrepresented in the newspaper story.
And I reference it because the misrepresentation creates a
real, real bad situation for the people at Animal Control
who do this work. It's not clean work. It's not fun work.
It's not something that they take home at night to share
with their family about the joys of their job. But it is a
job, as opposed to the organization you represent. And I
know you're here today as a citizen. This is Animal
Control, as opposed to Animal Shelter.
The fact of the matter in this one case, even
though you didn't reference it this morning, is that the
dogs were not killed short of 98 hours; they were killed 60
hours alter the fa~~t. And the other Tact of the matter is
that the owner, while distraught, who came to see about the
animals, didn't leave her name and address and telephone
number, which makes it very difficult for the Animal Control
people to get ahold of an owner. Now, I grant you that
perhaps we, the county Animal Control people, should say to
a distraught owner under circumstances like that, "Ma'am" or
"Sir, may we have your telephone number so that we can get
back to you?" if that individual is so distraught so as to
have forgotten about it. And perhaps we didn't do that.
But, I think it's incumbent on the individual, if they come
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out there and find, one, their dogs weren't there, as o-aas
the case in this particular instance because the inquiry
came before the dogs were registered in, and the second
inquiry didn't come until after the dogs were destroyed.
And so, ycu know, I hate to see the Animal Control people,
who work very hard, get a real black eye over a situation
that they had no major responsibility for because they
erred. They didn't err, and I think it's important that the
public know that. And, I -- as I said to you when we talked
about this on those two or three occasions, yeah, we could
-- we could hold animals 48, 7~, 96 --
MR.. HARRIS: 120.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Some-odd hours.
All it takes is money to enlarge the facility, expand the
staff, and everything that goes wits that. Now, I don't
know whether these 640 people who signed these petitions are
not -- are willing Lo come here, one, at all, and tell us at
budget time that they want that -- that facility expanded
exponentially, but Lhat's what you're here asking us to do.
And that is -- that is a tax item, as Mr. Baldwin
referenced. Ir_ is a major tar, item, 'cause you're talking
about taking a facility that has the capability of handling
only 14 or 16 dogs in a run, doubling it or tripling it to
satisfy a need, whether that need is real or perr_a_ived. And
I'm not sure that that`s ttie way the taxpayers want us to
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go. So, at budget time, if that's what has to be done, then
I guess people are going to tell us about it.
MR. HARRIS: Gkay. In response to what you
said, I didn't want to get into the issues.
COMMISSIGNER WILLIAMS: I don't, either. I
just wanted to clear the record for the newspaper.
MR. HARRIS: I didn't want to talk about
individual cases. I brought the board over here for a
reason. There needs to be a sign. It's like I said when I
came over here to talk to this young lady, I did not know
your rules of how you do things around here. 't'his is just
like -- people walk in my office; they don't know our rules.
And, if -- without a handout or something to tell the people
what to do -- in this case, that's what happened. You had
an 18-year-old young lady that came in, didn't know the
rules. That's what I'm suggesting, is place the rules so
they cannot help but see it when they walk into the -- to
the building to take care of the problem. There has been
other issues of animals that have been put down way before
98 hours. There's been a lot of complaints about that.
And -- and I don't even want to get into the -- to 48 hours
or whatever. The bottom line is, the folks do not agree
with the 48-hour rule, and that's what they're telling me.
And, we've got to do whatever we've got to do in Kerr
County.
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And I, myself, don't have a problem with
raising my taxes, and I think there's a lot of folks the
same way; whatever it takes to make the facility handle --
first off, it is a direct reflection of the community, what
we do and how we handle our animals, as well as how we
handle children. And there's a lot of people that represent
children out there, a lot of teachers and principals and law
officers and folks, and there's not too much people like me
that stand up and say, well, you know, we've got a problem
here with animals too. And I'm saying we need to do
whatever it takes.
I don't want to get into an individual
contest about this. I -- when I decided -- when 1 came up
to here to speak -- you and I have discussed this about this
one case. There was a -- the ball was dropped in both
party's lap. Both of them. The person that went in made a
mistake, and so did the people that -- at the Animal
Control. They didn't get -- they didn't ask. If you don't
ask -- somebody could have asked. They could have solved
the problem; wouldn't have had it if the girl had gotten the
phone number. But, like I say, I really don't want to get
into the issue. Yes, I've talked to these people. I've
talked to many people in the last few weeks. Incredible.
And, they say they don't want it. Whatever has to be done,
we need to do it. I'm not telling you what to do. It's up
...
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to y'all to tell me what you can do about it. Or --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We have some other
questions.
MR. HARRIS: Sure.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Are you finished,
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a couple of
questions. First of all, I'm not sure if you're aware of
this or not. I've kind of been the Commissioner that's
worked probably the closest with the Animal Control Facility
since I've been a Commissioner, which is going on over four
years now, and we're currently under -- working through the
County Attorney and with the department head out there to go
over our procedures and make sure that they are accurate.
And, you know, when things need to be changed, I'll
recommend bringing them back to the Court for a change.
That being said, you know, I personally think
our Animal Control department does very good. The purpose
of that department is animal control. Dogs that are not
tagged and collared are a major problem in this county, and
that is -- you know, I don't know the exact number, but the
vast majority of dogs that get euthanized or cats or other
animals do not have collars, and those dogs are in violation
and their owners are in violation of county laws. So, I
think that, you know, to come out and kind of imply all
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these problems out there -- well, responsibility needs to go
back to the people who are not following the law and are not
keeping tags and collars and rabies vaccinations on their
Last year, we received over 2,800 animals out
there. Of those, 323 were adopted out, and that includes
those that went to the Humane Society and other
organizations. If there is such a community concern about
the number of animals that we are euthanizing, I would
recommend that these organizations, such as Humane Society,
raise money and increase your adoption. You can go out
there and we will give you every animal you want free, and
you can take them and hold them as long as you want. The
purpose of that facility is to control animals. And, I
don't -- I do not see us raising taxes, in my opinion, for
that purpose. If people want to donate money and help us,
through their generosity and individual choice, to build a
larger facility, possibly staff that facility, I think we'd
probably certainly entertain it. I'd be happy to see that.
So, if the people that say -- or if you say
people want us to raise taxes, I don't hear that. But, if
-- you know, if there's that many people that you think want
to raise taxes, 1 suggest you all go out there and start
raising money, and either contribute it to one of the other
adoption centers in the county or to the County for the
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designated purpose of expanding that facility and staffing
it. I mean, until we get that kind of support or input from
the community, my personal feeling is we should operate the
way we are. I think we're doing a very good job.
MR. HARRIS: Well, I know that the Animal
Control has a difficult job. Like I stated earlier, I
couldn't do it. It's not -- I know they have a tough job,
but the bottom line is, 98 hours is not long enough, and
that's what's the people of Kerr County says.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, --
COMMISSIONER. GF.IFFIN: I have a question.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- raise funds, and we
can solve it.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a question.
How many -- and we may not have a precise statistic on it,
but how many tagged animals have we euthanized in the last
year? Do we have a feel for that, Marc?
MR. ALLEN: I don't have the number on that,
but we very seldom --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would suspect that's
a very 1uw number.
MR. ALLEN: Very low number.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I know that -- I
know that maybe a 16-year-old dog, for example, for whatever
reason, may not medically be able to wear a collar. I
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suspect that a 16-year-old dog doesn't run very much,
either.
MR. HARRIS: No.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, probably not a --
not a nuisance to neighbors or anybody else. But, I know my
animal, I -- he does not like a collar and tag, never has.
But he's never without it, because -- because it -- in that
rare instance where he might get picked up, I sure want him
to --
MR. HARRIS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- to have an
identification that somebody can call me on. So, I think --
as Commissioner Letz says, that is the rule. And, unless
there is some bona fide -- and I think those would be very
rare -- some bona fide reason for an animal not to be
tagged, I just don't understand that. I mean, as an animal
owner myself, if something happened to him, 1'd be -- it's
like one of my kids. But if -- I just don't understand why
an owner can't tag -- and maybe it's an educational thing,
you know. It is the one way that you know you're probably
going to get your animal back. And -- and it's also a
responsible thing to do, to let Animal Control people and
your neighbors know that that animal has been rabies
vaccinated and is no threat to the community. But, I share
your passion that we want to do what's right, and -- and we
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should. And we should be reviewing, and I know we are, and
we'll continue to do so. But, it's --
MR. HARRIS: I agree with you that people
need to be responsible pet owners. There are a lot of
responsible pet owners out there that get their animals
picked up. I've had some problems in the past -- it's been
a long time ago -- where animals have gotten out of mine,
and I had my name on the collars and things like that. Out
-- when I lived way out in the county, and I -- luckily, I
had people that were nice enough to call me and say, "I've
got your dogs down here." I think what happens not only
happens to irresponsible pet owners, but to responsible pet
owners. That also happens. But, I still feel that the 98
hours is not long enough for -- one of the problems is that
weekends fall -- Saturdays and Sundays, people are out of
town; their animals get loose. I travel some during the
year, and I have people that have -- in fact, I have two or
three people that take care of my animals. I make sure that
they get taken care of; somebody checks the other person.
Things happen. The animals get loose. People don't know
what to do. They don't know the rules. Again, they don't
know who to contact or -- or how you should do it.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the reason I
say that's probably an educational thinq.
MR. HAP.RIS: Right.
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COMMISSIONER GRIFFICd: And we can look at
MR. HARRIS: And we're trying to educate also
in the -- in the Humane Society, we're trying to educate
people to spay and neuter their animals, tag them, and abide
by rules and laws, and we are trying to do that. We go to
the schools, we do education at schools. We do -- there's a
whole lot of things we're doing at the Humane Society to try
to educate folks, but the bottom line is that 98 hours is
not long enough for folks to claim their animals.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, if I may bring
this to some closing for today, I'll be glad to work with
Commissioner Letz and -- in a review of our procedures and
processes, and bring that back to the Court and to the
public for -- to see what we can do and what the -- we
probably need to evaluate what some costs are, how those
costs might be raised, other than taxes, through other means
and so on, and work with the -- the local shelter groups and
concerned folks on this and see what we can come up with.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- if may I make one
more quick comment on this space out there, which is the --
the main limiting factor right now, there are state laws
that we have to follow regarding you're going to have one,
you know, dog in a kennel, and if you have certain ones that
are quarantine kennels, you can only use them for
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quarantine; they have to be reserved.
MR. HARRIS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not just a matter of
adding $100 worth of kennels. It's also -- there's a sewage
treatment facility out there that has to handle all the
waste; it can't go out on the ground. We'd have to update
that and expand that, which is very expensive. So, we're
not talking about a small expenditure; we're talking
about -- in fact, we looked at it, I think, the first year I
was on the Court, about expanding the facility, and it was
$30,000 or $40,000 minimum just to basically double the
capacity, which still is not going to solve the problem.
You know, we pick up 200, 250 animals a month. If we keep
them for longer than 48 hours, we're talking about a major
expenditure of that facility -- expansion of the facility to
make it large enough that we can hold animals five days. I
mean, that's just -- that's a tremendous difference.
Probably, you know --
COMMISSIONER GRIFF'1N: Does the Humane
Society have other -- have facilities to store animals?
MR. HARRIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: House them?
MR. HARRIS: We take -- we take in animals
and adopt out, yes.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What -- the reason I
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ask is that -- is that maybe there could be some cooperative
agreements where -- where -- and I'm just guessing here, but
maybe we could have a cooperative agreement where, when the
facility is full and we have -- and I'm not proposing this,
but if we had animals that have been held for 48 hours and
we don't have the capacity to keep them longer than that,
tkrerr maybe if other organizations have facilities, we can
pass them along to them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we work very
closely with the Humane Society.
MR.. HARRIS: `Ceah. They bring animals to us
and we take them in over there as we can, as we have space
for them. They've been real good about that. We've tried
to adopt out to try to help put the pressure off of the
County facilities. We`ve -- we have done that.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, good.
MR. HARRIS: We're trying to -- as you know,
trying to find a facility where we can handle even more to
take even mire pressure oYf Kerr County. We're -- we're
doing everything we can. We're pushing spay and neuter.
We're -- we warm to ha~ae them all tagged so people know who
they are. We even had a microchip -- we started out trying
to microchip all the animals, trying -- so they could go
back and find their owners, the original owners. And, you
know, I don't have a problem, if an animal is running loose,
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I think you -- and they're in violation of the law, they
should be fined. I mean, the money for the fines should
help go back to solve the problem.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or
comments for Mr. Harris?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My final comment is that
I think that the sign is a good idea to put outside and post
that. I think it's a good -- some~hing we can certainly do
and advise the public on procedures and how long the period
is, and we can certainly take care of something like that.
I see Marc Allen nodding his head that, you know, he agrees.
So --
JUDGE HENNEKE: We also had -- we also had
Mr. Dixon Mahon sign up to talk to us about this item.
Thank you, Mr. Harris.
MR. HARRIS: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Mahon, do you want to
come forward?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, while he's
coming up, I would like to make a comment that I am one
Commissioner that thinks that maybe that 48 hours should be
expanded some. Forty-eight hours just seems like -- you
know, it's a Friday and -- I mean a Saturday and a Sunday,
and that may not be enough time. And I'd like to look at
expanding that another day.
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COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We'd like to make it
as long as we can; that should be our goal.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And see what the cost
might be to do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think our current
procedures are that we do it as long as we can, space
available. They'll keep them 48 hours. If we have space,
we keep them there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We keep them until we
can't keep them any longer.
MR. ALLEN: Weekends and holidays do not
count. It's 48 working hours.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Weekends and holidays
don't count, Marc just said. It's a space-driven issue.
It's not trying to -- "Let's hurry up. It's been 98 hours;
let's get rid of these animals."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My point is, if we
could see what the cost would be to expand something like
that so these good 600 people can come in, provide the cash
to build that facility.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see where you're going.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have one other
question. In your search for a piece of property for
H.S.K., Larry, how much property are you searching for?
MR. HARRIS: Well, S to 10 acres. We're
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working on a -- keep our fingers crossed. Schreiner College
may donate some property to us on the Loop. We don't want
to get too close to the -- to the Animal Control Facility,
because what -- what's happened to us is we have been dumped
on also. We -- we get dumped every weekend. People throw
animals over the -- over the top -- we have a 5-foot fence,
and they throw animals over, which causes a health problem.
They could break their legs. We have some incredible things
that we have to deal with, too. We just don't want to be
right next door to Animal Control, because all of the
people, of course, are going to dump their animals on us and
Animal Control, and we can only handle so much. You know,
we're trying our best.
I have worked -- I work a lot of hours. This
is a lot of hours. Our whole Humane Society works a lot of
hours trying to make things better in Kerr County, and this
problem. I mean, I -- we, none of us, make any money. And
I've enjoyed helping the community. We do a lot of things
other than just help rescue animals, too, for the area.
We're on a major education thing, trying to stop the problem
of unwanted pets, of spay and neuter problems. We've got
folks that are working hard on that. So, we're trying all
aspects of it to help solve the problem. We're not just
coming up here saying we need to -- we want all these
changes without coming up with some kind of solution. I've
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been -- we've been trying to get solutions. I've been on
the board for probably eight years now.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Mr. Harris. We'll
certainly be --
MR. HARRIS: Okay. There's some other folks
that would like to speak. I don't know y'all's procedure
about this, too. They just asked me.
JUDGE HENNEKE: If they've signed up, they
can come forward and speak, but I'll tell you right now, we
are not going to devote much more time to this, because we
have an agenda. Come forward.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Dixon isn't here?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Come forward, sir.
MR. RATHERT: Do you want me up there or
here?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Right there.
MR. RATHERT: Okay. Do you want my slip?
DODGE HENNEKE: Yes, please.
MR. RATHERT: I'm not going to show you this,
don't worry.
JUDGE HENNEKE: You have three minutes.
MR. RATHERT: Okay. Well, I got my dander
up. I'm obviously a dog owner. I take my dog serious. I
don't think he'd ever be in this Animal Control, but it
could happen. How it would happen, we like to go out once
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in a while. When we do, we hire a lady that works with the
Kerrville veterinary operation here, and she won't take that
dog outside the house without a leash. It's a Weimaraner,
which is a sporting dog; it's a hunting dog, and it gets a
scent and it could be three counties away. So, if it ever
got off that leash with her and he was looking for me, God
only knows where he'd end up. So, that's my exposure.
The other exposure are a lot of deer scents,
a lot of coyote scents. I was told there are no coyotes up
there, but we have observed coyotes since I was told that
there weren't any up there. But, we have to co-exist with
that. I'm prepared to handle that without shooting them.
That was advice I yot, but I don't believe in that either.
But, I'm saying at first I thought it's never going to
happen to me; I'm uu~ going to show up. But, it could, And
maybe I've got her there taking care of my dog for four or
five days while we've taken a little vacation somewhere. I
come back and I find out that, jeez, you had two days.
Where the heck were you?
The other point that I didn't even think
about that came up as a result of hearing all this, I got a
call one day from a fellow that said, "Gee, do you own a
dog?" And he described it. I don't recall the description
now, but it has 257-606-, and I can't read the last digit,
because it's all messed up. And if you look at your own dog

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tags, maybe you'll find out that after wear and tear,
wearing all the time, it's not legible either. And I think
maybe you could find a better system of putting some tag on
there that's better identified so that if he does get loose
and he does have his collar, they can get back to you. I
finally advised him -- I called him back and I said, "Well,
you got 5068. Why don't you try 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 -- you only
got nine other calls to make." I have no idea what happened
to that. But, you say the paper was unfair, and we all know
sometimes stories aren't factual.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't say that.
MR. RATHERT: Well, I don't know. That's
what I heard. We don't always hear what people mean or what
they say. But, what disturbed me in the article was two
people called up and were told their dog was not there. And
I don't want to -- I'm just saying that's disturbing to me,
reading the paper. And also the caption under the picture
suggested this was death row, that these dogs were here to
be put away, and I think the intent should be to try to
salvage that dog. Now, this picture is important to me
because it's my dog. It's a Weimaraner. He took his first
ribbon when he was six months old. He took Best of Breed at
Carson City, so it's -- I'm very proud of my dog. But this,
in particular --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Rathert, I need to ask
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you to bring this to a close, sir.
MR. RATHERT: Okay. Can I have another
minute?
DODGE HENNEKE: You can have about another 30
seconds.
MR. RATHERT: She is in Animal Control in
Reno, Nevada, and they had a lost Weimer, and she spent
three weeks trying to find that Weimer a home. And I think
you could learn a lot from people by maybe contacting people
in Reno or other communities on how they handle dogs. As I
understand it, they give a dog 30 days of life.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir.
MR. RATHERT: And that's what's I would have
requested for, not five days.
DODGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anyone else? Come
forward.
MR. BARNETT: First of all, Commissioners,
good morning. The gentleman, good morning. I'm happy to
have a chance to make a couple comments. Let me make a
couple --
DODGE HENNEKE: Please give us your name
first.
MR. BARNETT: Sorry. Thomas Earnett. It's
written there. It's written there.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The court reporter doesn't
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have the advantage of this.
MR. BARNETT: My name is Thomas Barnett. Let
me make a couple comments off of what I was going to say
about this conversation. First of all, we -- talking about
raising taxes, I don't know that that is necessary at all.
I'm not telling you your business, obviously, but I assume
as we get more human beings coming in here, they pay taxes
like you and I and you get more money in. We're just saying
that maybe a portion of that should go to this particular
effort, as well, which I don't think it is asking too much.
Larry Harris is quoted as saying that a community -- a
community's treatment of its four-legged animals is a mirror
of the community's values. I fear he may be right. I hope
not, because we're not exactly kind to our animals. And
that's to our own detriment.
An off-line example is, we all -- us
newcomers visit Kerrville, we fall in love with the place,
the beautiful flowers, the trees, the hills, the valleys,
and the deer, which are right at arm's length. Then we move
here, and there are too many deer. They eat my lawn. I was
sitting at the breakfast table one morning. I look out
there, and here's one eating my favorite new rose. So, I
went out and explained to him he couldn't do that. Then I
put a cage around it, so we arrived at an arrangement. With
dogs and cats, we create our problem because we don't spay
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and neuter, "we" being the general public. As Mr. Harris
just pointed out, we raised a considerable amount of money;
my wife and I did most of the effort for spay and neuter.
But the money is largely sitting there because people are
too ignorant, too lazy, or too stupid to get -- to spay and
neuter, and there should be some kind of ordinance that they
have to; otherwise, fine them heavily.
DODGE HENNEKE: Mr. Barnett, you have one
minute, sir.
MR. BARNETT: A11 right, sir. You may also
have noticed that we're, more and more, killing each other,
as well as other animals. Kindergarten, grade school, and
high school. Any connection'? 1 don't know. I'll skip some
of my notes here, since I don't want to take too much of
your time. Now, we -- the people that love other of hod's
creatures are asking for a 5-day mandate. I don't think
that's enough, but that's not my point. 1 would adhere. If
you furnish information quickly enough at the Animal
Control, I suspect the newspaper here would be happy to
publish it so that the owners would have another access for
a pier_e of information. I've had the pleasure of talking to
Mr. Allen on a couple of occasions. He strikes me as a very
honorable man, and so I must take his word that he's got a
space problem. So, get him some more space. Also throw in
a few people that are highly-trained, because I'm sure he
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needs that as well. But that costs money, you say. So it
does. We get more people in town, we expand the streets and
highways, even more stoplights. We get more people in town,
we increase the schools because we have more children.
Incidentally, I'm just going over to deposit a sizable piece
of change for the school district. I don't complain about
that, even though I have no children and never have had.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Barnett, we need to ask
to you come to a close here.
MR. BARNETT: Beg pardon?
JtJUGE HENNEKE: Your time's up, sir.
MR. BARNETT: May I have just a couple more
seconds? I'm almost finished. I don't complain about that,
because it's my duty and pleasure to help other people with
their problem. ] have problems too, and this is one of
them. I ask your help in that.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir.
MR. BARNETT: I'll stop, then. I'm not
finished, but I'll stop.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
MR. BARNETT: If I may, 1 will give you
copies of what I was going to say.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, you may. That would be
fine. We'11 file it with the record. Thank you. One
more -- we can Lake one more speaker on this topic. Anyone
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else who'd like to speak? Have you filled out a form,
ma'am?
AUDIENCE: I'm not on the agenda, I'm sorry.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there someone who's filled
out a form?
AUDIENCE: No, I didn't fill out --
JUDGE HENNEKE: The gentleman behind you has
filled out a form. We're going to take him.
AUDIENCE: Okay. I got into this very late;
I was out of town
JUDGE HENNEKE: Give us your name, sir.
MR. GALINDO: Johnny Galindo.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Galindo.
MR. GALINDO: I don't believe in that policy
at all, the -- for the 48-hour kill. When I read that
paper, it just -- just tore me up. And I was going to -- to
Calvary Temple one day, and I saw him just took the two cats
out, had that collar on the cat, and pulled out that .22
rifle and shot them right in front of me.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else?
MR. GALINDO: I just don't -- don't believe
in that policy. Just having more -- more time for the
animals.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Sir, Animal
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Control did not pull out a .22 and shoot two cats.
MR. GALINDO: It was in front of me,
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It may have been in front
of you, but I'm saying Animal Control euthan~zes the
animals. We don't pull out a .22 and shoot them.
MR. GALINDO: It was a .22 rifle.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it was not -- now,
Mare, am I correct in that?
MR. ALLEN: We do not shoot cats; it's
against the law,
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Animal Control does
not --
MR. ALLEN: I will tell you, we do shoot
raccoons. We shoot wildlife, but we cannot shoot domestic
animals; it is against the law. Once they've been --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted the -- I'm
not saying you didn't see someone do it. 1 just want to
make it clear for the record that the County Animal Control
Department did not shoot the cats.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We have a subcommittee
formed. Mr. Letz and Mr. Griffin will take a look at our
policies and procedures and bring back some recommendations
to the Court as to how we can improve. we're always luuking
for ways to improve. At this time, we'll take a little
recess. Let's be back promptly at 20 minutes until 11:00.
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(Recess taken from 10:30 a.m. to 10:90 a.m.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: It is 20 minutes until 11:00
on Monday, March the 26th. We'll reconvene this regular
special session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court.
Next item for consideration is Item Number 5, which is
consider abandoning Kerr County maintenance of Verde Mesa
Drive E. in Vista Ridge Estates.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Precinct 2. If this
is the one I think it is, it's right inside the road going
toward Camp Verde, up the hill.
MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, it is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. JOHNSTON: We received a letter last week
from the developer who had bought the entire -- all ttie lots
in the subdivision. Bought the subdivision, basically. And
he wants to have the County abandon maintenance oi~ Ltiat
road, and he wants to put up a gate, I guess, and have a
gated subdivision.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You suspect?
MR. JOHNSTON: The road's about two years
old, possibly. The County really hasn't done any
maintenance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS; It's a new road,
probably less than two years old, and it's right across the
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road from another gated community.
MR. JOHNSTON: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which may have some
bearing on why he wants to do this.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Have any of the lots in the
subdivision been sold?
MR. JOHNSTON: Apparently this one peLSUn
owns them all, this one company, Valley One.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So we don't have Lo worry
about consent of all the landowners?
MR. JOHNSTON: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do we have to have a
public hearing, since it's -- since we're abandoning this?
I think we do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other issue is -- 1
mean, depends whether the developer is going to do a public
hearing Tor abandoning the road. If he wants to abandon the
subdivision or replat it, he's going to have to do -- if he
goes in for replatting or revision of plat, there needs to
be a public hearing as well, So, I mean, if he's --
potentially, what he's tying to do, he might as well try to
do it -- do it all at one time. It may be easier to abandon
the subdivision and start over or do a revision of
subdivision, at the same time abandoning the road.
JUDGE HENNEKE: My feeling is, he probably
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just wants to abandon the road rather than the subdivision.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just so he can get
it --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He's got some lot
sizes there -- he may not want to open up a new plat.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's true. Wouldn't get so
many lots.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think he might want
to stick to this. I think we do have to have a public
hearing because of the closing of a -- of a public road --
abandoning oY a public road.
MR. JOHNSTON: Right, I think so. Even
though it's one owner, I think we still should have the --
the public hearing.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we'd be looking at the
first meeting in May.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm -- I'm going off
memory on abandonment of a road, because, I mean, it's not
required in the Subdivision Rules, but for the County -- it
is a County-maintained road?
MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, it is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a rec~uiretuent --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure there is.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You have a -- it's a
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public road. It's a public road. I think that's what 252
requires.
MR. JOHNSTON: We don't have to notify all
the owners, 'cause there's only one owner, but I think we
probably have to have a public hearing for --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, he's going to
make it all private.
MR. JOHNSTON: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what he's
saying.
MR. JOHNSTON: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we need to set a
public hearing for what, May?
JUDGE HENNEKE: The 9th?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 14th.
JUDGE HENNEKE: 14th.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We already have
a 2 o'clock workshop.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll set this at --
10 o'clock?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 14th?
JUDGE HENNEKE: 10 o'clock on May the 19th.
Do I have a motion to that effectY
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that we set a
public hearing on abandonment of the road Verde Mesa Drive
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in Vista Ridge Estates, and set a public hearing for
May 19th.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just a small point.
On this kind of a thing, I think actually what we're doing
is abandoning, vacating, and discontinuing. In other words,
those three words mean something in the state law, and what
that says is we're abandoning it as a public road, we vacate
any title to it, and we discontinue maintenance. So, I
think that's probably the reason -- I know that is, 'cause
I'm looking at trying to do some of those in my precinct,
and I think you've got to use all three words if you're
getting totally out of the business of that road.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that a second?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you'll style it
that way when it comes back, right?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner
Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court set
a public hearing at lU o'clock a.m. on Monday, May the 14th,
Year 2001, in Kerr County Courthouse, Commissioners'
Courtroom, for the purpose of abandoning, vacating, and
discontinuing Verde Mesa Drive E. in Vista Ridge Estates,
Precinct 2. Any questions or comments'? IT not, all in
favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is
Item Number 6, consider the concept. plan for mobile home
park for Lot 12 in J.L. Nichols Subdivision, Precinct 4.
Commissioner Griffin.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is one that -- in
fact, I'll let -- I'll let Franklin talk to this, but this
is one where we got an inquiry through our Designated
Representative for septic systems, because this came to
them, and then that alerted us to it. We had a -- a fax
from U.G.R.A., I believe -- and Judge Henneke and I just
spoke briefly about this, that this comes under a
manufactured home rental category, and we have an ordinance
that I think spells out what's going to have to be done in
this case.
MR. JOHNSTON: We11, I thought that,
but manufactured home rental community doesn't specify that
they're in a platted subdivision already. This is in a
platted subdivision.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But, it's being
further --
MR. JOHNSTON: Further developed. Looks like
that would be part of the replat process, as opposed to
manufactured home.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think so. We may
have to get clarification, but the ordinance we have says
it's --
MR. JOHNSTON: We talked to the owner about
both of those ordinances, and -- and the more we talked, the
more we talked ourselves into it was a replat problem. But,
the real problem was on lot size. That's something you
might talk about a little bit. We looked in the book. This
area has a water system, so they go down to 501(e)(2) It
says no acreage limitation for lots served by community or
public systems served by O.S.S.F. Unless it strictly means
that you still have to go by that average 5-acre lot size.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me get my rules.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I -- what are they going to
do with these lots? Are they going to sell them?
MR. JOHNSTON: You have a plat, I think, in
there. They're going to --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Are they going to sell them
or are they are going to rent them for purposes of placing
manufactured homes on them?
MR. JOHNSTON: Are the Reeds here"? They were
supposed to come today. I don't see them. I think they're
going to place the homes and rent them.
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's -- I believe that fits
squarely within the definition of the manufactured home
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rental community.
MR. JOHNSTON: Even though that's -- it's in
a platted subdivision, it still comes under --
JUDGE HENNEKE: 1 don't think that makes any
difference, whether it's a platted subdivision or not. I
think it's under the manufactured home rental community to
address minimum infrastructure standards for places where
they're going to rent lots and/or manufactured homes for
people's dwelling purposes.
MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, according to U.G.R.A.
write-up, it says they'll retain ownership. So --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Unless --
MR. JOHNS'1'ON: So it's up to them to come up
with a developer's plan.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Unless the County Attorney
tells us to the contrary, I think this is a manufactured
home rental community, and as such, they'll have to fit
under the order for minimum infrastructure standards for
manufactured Home rental communities.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, but
I would rather bear that officially from the property owners
than reading Charlie Wiedenfeld's hen-scratching here. I
don't know that tkiis is a -- Charlie's legal document here
says that the ownership will be retained by the Reed family.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The other question I have is,
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are they already renting spaces to manufactured homes out
there?
MR. JOHNSTON: No. They --
JUDGE HENNEKE: So, this drawing is just --
MR. JOHNSTON: This is a --
JUDGE HENNEKE: -- illustrative?
MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, it's illustrative. I
think it's an empty lot. They bought two mobile homes, and
they were in the process of wanting to place them on the
lots, and someone told them they had to go to U.G.R.A. And
then from them, they came to us. So, as far as I know, they
haven't placed them yet.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we've got to
refer this one back for that to make sure it's -- we follow
the ordinance.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, too.
MR. JOHNSTON: So, we wait for them to bring
us the -- the development plan?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, we should advise
them of that.
MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, probably ought to write
them a letter.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we also need to
advise the U.G.R.A. and possibly KPUB that there are no
utility hookups out there until they have their plan
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approved, which is what the statute says.
MR. JOHNSTON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Doesn't say in so many
words -- do you know what proposed -- what kind of septic
system that they intend to get on here, or --
MR. JOHNSTON: They have these little
drawings. I haven't talked to Charlie about it any further
than that. These lots are getting down to less than a
quarter of an acre, I think, so --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. I think they
got a --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They may not be able to
put a septic in. Depends what they're planning. You can
put a septic anywhere if you have money.
MR. JOHNSTON: Common septic, or work out
something.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But I agree, I
mean, they -- it's -- I don't see why it wouldn't fall under
the manufactured home community.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's exactly what
that's designed for.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Development plan.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's what it's for. Only
thing I was confused about, it was in a subdivision already,
so --
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Oka~~. Let's move on to Item
Number 7, which is consider the preliminary revision of plat
for Tract 53A of Kerrville Country Estates in Precinct 1.
Commissioner Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, Mr. Johnston?
MR. JOHNSTON: This is a plat revision in an
existing subdivision. There's a 10-acre lot, and they're
dividing it into two 5-plus acre lots, and it's in the city
ETJ. Lee Voelkel's here. He might want to explain it a
little further. I think there is a preliminary plat for the
County. It also goes to P & Z.
MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir. I'll explain that.
Good morning. Lee Voelkel. I'm representing Mr. Thos, the
owner of the property, here this morning. We have -- as of
last Thursday, we went before the Planning and Zoning
Commission of the City of Kerrville. They had a public
hearing, which will be their only hearing for the plat, and
the plat was approved as presented. As Frank said, we're
taking one 10-acre -- 10-acre-plus tract and just dividing
it into two. The plat does not show the improvements, but
let me explain. On Lot, as presented, 53A-1, there is an
existing residence where Mr. Thos lives. The other lot,
S3A-"~, is vacant. 'f here is a -- a water system in Kerrville
Country Estates operated by Saddle Mountain Co-op. At this
point, the property owners have an option of getting on the
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water system or drilling their own well.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Five acres.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have is
that -- to refer to it as "revision of plat" as opposed to
"replat.
MR. VOELKEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we approve the
preliminary revision of plat for Tract 53A of Kerrville
Country Estates, Section II.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court
approve the preliminary revision of plat for Lot 53A of
Kerrville Country Estates, Section II. Any further
questions or comments?
MR. JOHNSTON: There was -- there was an
issue of who does what first. Did they resolve that at
P & Z? The City, I think, wrote us a note and said that
they wanted the County to approve the final plat before they
approved it, but it was my understanding that when it comes
here, we approve it, and it has to be complete and has to
stay here and go to the Clerk's office. So -- I think
that's the procedure, is it not?
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the procedure we've
followed all along.
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MR. VOELKEL: Can I comment on that?
MR. JOHNSTON: Yes.
MR. VOELKEL: That was an issue that came up
at the time we presented this to the City. My understanding
is Tim Dolan, who is Director of Planning for the City, has
now approved the plat, and it is up to the County for their
bearings to approve it; that the City will have their
signatures on the plat first, and then it comes to the
County for the final signatures and final recording.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's different about
tfiaL? That's the way we've done it.
MR. VOELKEL: I think with Mr. Doan being
new, he didn't really understand that part, and the City, I
think, wanted to always be the last one to review it and put
the -- put the signatures on it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't work that way
here.
MR.. VOELKEL: He's getting educated.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Lee. Next item is
Item Number 8, consider and discuss --
COMMLSSIONER WILLIAMS: 8?
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: We didn't vote on that?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We didn't vote.
MR. JGHNSTON: I think I interrupted.
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JUDGE HENNEKE; Okay. Any further questions
or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Preliminary revision of plat
is approved. Item Number 8, consider departmental
recommendation for annual bids on cold-laid asphalt, base
material, aggregate, emulsions, culverts, and equipment by
the hour. Mr. Odom.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Leonard Odom. What we
have today in this agenda item is consider the annual bids
and our recommendations for acceptance. The following are
my recommendations on the annual bids. The hot mix-cold
laid asphalt concrete pavement would go to Smyth Mines, and
Vulcan would be number two. That is a CC, or cold mixes
that we use, and Smyth would be the low bid. We would
accept that, and still suggest that we would go ahead and
use Vulcan as an option, should that not have a source.
Base material -- this is crushed limestone,
just like Highway Department uses. Our recommendation is
Wheatcraft, Red Rose Pit, which is off -- number one is off
Cypress CreeY. Loop there. Mr. Reeh was -- is number two.
He had a lower bid, but that pit is on the other side of
Comfort, between Comfort and Waring or somewhere back toward
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Boerne there, so it's a long distance. And, what we've done
in the past is to -- location is also a cost factor that we
looked at, and since we're talking right here at Cypress
Creek Loop, like the microwave there, it's closer, more
cost-effective to use Red Rose. And if we're in the Comfort
area, we'll certainly use Reeh. Also, Masters has a bid.
That is at 479 and I-10 there, and that's good for that west
end of the county, should we have a need there, so our
recommendation is to go with, number one, Wheatcraft first,
and then location has a factor in where we're going, the
hauling rate and like that, so we would suggest that we take
all three, but priority goes to Red Rose Pit.
On Type B, the uncrushed gravel/pit run, it's
something that is just screened. The number one bid was
Wheatcraft, Red Rose Pit. Two was Rountree. Three is
Wheatcraft on 173, this pit there, and Bedrock is four. So,
we would go with the number one, but still use those others
as options, based upon location and availability.
Type C is crushed gravel. That is pit run,
but basically they run it through a crusher and they crush
it. We get some angular -- we get angles on that rock. The
Type C is also in our specs for a certain type road. That
we take, number one, Rountree. Rountree had the low bid
there, and Bedrock is number two. So, we make the
recommendation to the Court that we accept those two bids.
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We would go to Rountree as first priority.
Equipment by the hour with the operator. The
low bid with equipment that we have for the minimum, and
that was minimum, to build a road, was Schwartz. Number
two, we recommend Bobby Jenschke, and number three is Edmund
Jenschke. Edmund Jenschke had bid and had a little bit
lower price, but his equipment was smaller. We ended up
with a D-6 at $100 an hour, and Bobby Jenschke had one at
$110. Just due to the fact of use of productivity and more
production, that that $10 an hour is logical in the scope of
heavy equipment or road building, that we would go with
Bobby as number two, and number three would still be Edmund.
So, the first would be Schwartz as our primary to do the --
the work for the County, and should the others be there, we
suggest -- our recommendation is to take these three, and in
this order.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, is Bobby
Jenschke -- has he expanded his operation again?
MR. ODOM: Yes. He's come back and he's
still doing work. And, basically, this is the first time
about in about five years we've had a bid from Bobby.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He had sort of retired
for a while, but I guess --
MR. ODOM: He did retire, and he's come back,
and he's got a D-7E, very quick piece of machinery. We can

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do a lot of work. Bobby is -- Bobby's done work for the
County before in the past; he's done good work.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. ODOM: Paving aggregate, we have Type B,
which is crushed gravel, crushed stone, or natural limestone
rock asphalt. Number one was Bedrock. Number two was
Wheatcraft, and number three was Smyth Mines. Smyth had a
lower bid, but they're located in Uvalde, Texas, and
that's -- this bid was f.o.b. plant. And number four was
Drymala, but Drymala does not crush rock. He only shakes it
out, segregates it, but it's not a crushed rock. It's a
screened rock, but it's not crushed. The next bid -- and
our recommendation is Bedrock first, with the others, as we
mentioned, still to be used should that need arise.
PB is a precoated rock, and the bid on that
is Smyth Mines would be the best, and Vulcan. That is an
f.o.b. delivered price to Kerrville, within a 25-mile radius
of Kerrville. I think we got it for $18 a ton; that's a
real good price for a good rock that meets specifications
for TexDOT. These companies do TexDOT, so we get some good
skid resistance for our program, for certain hills and
certain roads with high traffic, and these -- this gets us
an option. So, Smyth is number one, and Vulcan would be our
backup.
'c'rap rock is a single-source item. It is
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something that we have used on Rimrock, Scenic Hills,
Ranchero, things like that. It's a very hard aggregate, and
the only source there is Vulcan, and we suggest that we take
that one bid from Vulcan. Aesthetically, it's a
good-looking rock, and it is a very hard substance; it
doesn't wear down. The oil will wear out. Provided that
the oil -- and we're fixing to get to emulsions. Anyway, as
long as that oil is good, it will stay.
The other bid was corrugated metal pipe. The
number one bidder we recommend to use is Walters out of
Fredericksburg, and then Texas Corrugators out of San
Antonio be number two. We suggest that we would take both
of these; that those are backup bids. With Texas
Corrugators, in case Walters should not get us something, we
have the availability out of San Antonio.
The emulsions, what we recommend is Ergon as
number one. Number two is Koch, and number three is
Champion. On the bid, we had -- Champion had the low bid.
We had had problems with that supplier over a year ago, and
because of the stripping factor, that the oil would not
stay, the rock would come loose. And, we had that verified
by Rodriguez Engineering at the time we made the
recommendation last year, that it was low viscosity and/or
asphalt conditions. We also asked the engineer to look at
it and see if we did something wrong. Same people, same
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equipment, same rock suppliers, different supplier of oil.
And, basically, the -- the opinion was we had a low
viscosity. Low viscosity means it will not grab, it's so
thin, and there's various reasons. At that time, we were
three-quarters of a penny below the bid. This year there's
7 cents difference. And we told them that we wanted
references, and in this packet you'll see these references
that we have. I don't know if you wish me to go -- read
this or not, but --
DODGE HENNEKE: I don't think that's
necessary, Leonard. You did an excellent job of checking
the references.
MR. ODOM: We did check the references, and
they were negative. And we told them that we have a
disparity of -- and let it be on the record, you know, 7
cents. However, we do not feel that we want our program to
go in reverse. We think that the same problem that occurred
when we disallowed them over a year ago is still the same
problem now, and we do not need to lose -- all our roads be
stripped and lose the rock. That's ludicrous. We're still
under the bid of /9 cents where it's 73. I have a disparity
of two cents. At 75 I had a good grouping. And, that --
the information that 1 have, that we're looking at the
possibility for all of us in this county of about a
10 percent increase in fuel prices, so it concerns me. If I
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got the 10 percent spread and another 10 percent through the
summer, I don't -- we don't see any let-up in commodities
prices on petroleum products. Maybe toward the end of the
year it will break, but we just feel that's too much of a
squeeze, and I don't think -- I think it'll even be squeezed
a little bit more. So, our recommendation is to go with
Ergon.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to testify on
the City of Kerrville, right there in Kerrville South, brand
new pavement, I mean, literally coming up, and it's the
saddest thing I've ever seen. And he's run those tests, and
they come to find out it's truly the oil. So, sometimes
it's better to pay a penny more and get better quality.
MR. ODOM: We'll get a better quality. We
get what we're paying for. We're still in the budget that I
programmed for, and I'm a penny under this year's -- or last
year's oil, so I don't see it hurting. But, I -- I do think
that we're -- we're going to reverse if we take the gavel
with the recommendations of -- that they provided me
references. I couldn't get anything positive.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, I'd like to
commend you again for doing an outstanding job in your
department on coming up with the number of bidders that we
had this year. And I make a motion that we approve the
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bids.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Award the bids -- I want
to get the wording right -- the bids as submitted.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz,
second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court accept the
recommendation of Road and Bridge Department and award the
bids for various items in the priority order recommended.
Before we vote, I want to say that you did an outstanding
job. I mean, this is the third time I've gone through this,
and we get more bids every time and the bids are tighter and
we're getting more interest, which has contributed to the
quality of the program that you all are running out there.
I just want to say thanks.
MR. ODOM: Well, thank you. I'll pass that
on to the men. That's a reflection on them. Thank you.
Truby and I --
MR. LUCAS: I just want to ask real quick --
I was reading a law book while y'all were talking about some
things. Are we awarding some of these contracts that aren't
the lowest? I think. I had heard something like that?
MR. ODOM: Yes.
MR. LUCAS: Okay. There may be a
prohibition -- and, Judge, we might need to talk about this.
Even if it's the lowest bid, we have to look at responsible
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and best.
MR. ODOM: That's right.
MR. LUCAS: That's what we're talking about?
MR. ODOM: That's what we're talking about.
MR. LUCAS: But there is a provision that
says if we do that, we have to give notice to that lowest
bidder, have him come before us and present evidence of --
you know, of -- as long as he's within the specifications,
you know. And, I guess, you know, that's going to be a fact
determination.
JUDGE HENNEKE: What we'll do is we're going
to go ahead and accept the recommendation, award the bids,
and then -- and then, you know, it's subject to the -- the
law in procurement, so that if they have the ability to come
before us, we have to send out the requisite notice. if
they have the ability to come before us and present some
evidence as to why we may have misconstrued their bid, then
we'll be prepared to do that. Does that work, Travis?
MR. LUCAS: Yeah.
MR. ODOM: And may T_ say, too, that this is
not ~~old turkey, that they do not know about this. I talked
to them last week and did give them notice of why, and I
gave them an opportunity to discuss this and to argue
anything, and invited them to come here today. I told them
that they could have the opportunity to say anything they
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wished to. I was going to make my recommendation based upon
the same thing that I told you.
MR. LUCAS: That's great. Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go ahead and act on the
motion, then we'll ask that Mr. Lucas and Mr. Odom consult
and make sure that we have satisfied all of the necessary
legal requirements for the process. Okay? Any further
questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your
right hands.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you,
Leonard.
MR. ODOM: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Appreciate it. If it weren't
for the Sheriff, we'd have a real short agenda.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way it is
every week.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 9, consider and
discuss granting extension for receipt of RFP's for new
communication system.
SHERIFF HIERHULZER: 1 think the backup on
this one pretty well shows we did have our -- our vendors
meeting here, and the recommendation was to give the
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possible vendors a little bit more time. We all agreed on
two weeks, due to their trying to contact tower owners and
site locations and work out lease agreements and things like
that.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Move we approve the
extension of the RFP for responses to the RFP as presented.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court
extend the deadline for responses to the RFP's for Sheriff's
Department communication system from May 11th, Year 2001, to
May 25th, Year 2001. Sheriff, is it my understanding that
Trott will send out letters or notify people who received
packages of this extension?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, between Trott and
ourselves, we will. Trott offered -- mentioned that they
would, and I'll double-check. And if they don't, we will.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number
10, consider and discuss authorization to purchase spare
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printer from unexpended Capital Outlay money.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In Capital Outlay money
is 400-something dollars we have out of the Jail's Capital
Outlay. This printer is our TLETS printer; we have two. We
have one TLETS machine in the Jail and one in Dispatch. The
problem I ran into, as y'all recall awhile back, we had one
go down. These are 10-pin printers which you have to have,
and it ended up costing us more just for the service fee
coming out of San Antonio to do maintenance on this printer
than it would have to have a spare printer in backup, which
I need because we use these machines constantly. And, if we
had that spare printer and backup, then if one broke down,
we could just send it off to qet it fired instead of having
to pay a service fee to come up and fix it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's this printer used
for?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: TLETS. Our
N.C.I.C./T.C,I.C. run and 28's, 29's, running registration
on vehicles, running wanted checks on inmates -- I'm sorry.
Little bit too carried away. I did it too long, toc many
years. Anytime a prisoner comes into the jail, before he's
released, even if he's just in there overnight, we run
wanted checks nationwide, statewide. We run all up in
dispatch; we run driver's license, check vehicle
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registrations, all that, anytime an officer checks out on
someone, so these are a constant-use printer.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court amend the
approved capital items for the Sheriff's Department to
include a spare printer, and authorize use of the unexpended
Capital Outlay monies for that piece of equipment.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more question, if I
might. Generally, I'm not real in favor of buying spare
printers, but this printer is not going to go out-of-date?
We're not going to have one on the shelf and then decide
it's an obsolete printer and throw one away?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. This is the type of
printer -- this special equipment i.s used constantly. It's
not going to change.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUllGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
~~~ JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number
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11, consider and discuss new contract for inmate telephone
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This one is -- of
issued in the contract years ago. Current revenue -- gross
revenue that the County supposedly gets is 20.5 percent
revenue off all inmate phone system proceeds. That contract
expires first part of May or -- or end of April. The County
had put them on notice last year that it was going to expire
and that they would have to renegotiate, because this was
all hooked into the computer system the former Sheriff had
done, and I gave them the opportunity to give us a proposal.
You have that in there. And we also got a proposal from a
local telephone company.
The proposal from the local telephone company
is the one that I will recommend, even though the percentage
is one or two points difference. One, it will actually be
less of an expense on inmates. The local calls are -- are
quite a bit cheaper if they're just calling family here in
town, compared to what Evercom was charging them if they
were calling family here in town. Plus, I think the service
of having it locally, that we can actually get service out
there quicker. It does advance our system to actually
giving us the capability of reporting and archiving all
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inmate phone calls going out of that jail, which is a very
high security issue that I'm interested in, especially with
a lot of the things we have going on that I'd liY.e to keep
track of security-wise for the jail. I gave this contract
to Travis to look at. He did find a few things that need to
explanation, I'll let him explain. But, I would recommend,
due to the short time period and that, that at least the
County approve the contract pending the County Attorney's
approval, and authorize the Judge to sign the same.
DODGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments?
It has been our experience with Evercom that their service
has perhaps not been very consistent over the period of time
we've had their system out there?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The service I've Yrad
since I've been in office has not keen bad at a11, okay?
It's just that, one, I do believe in doiuy business locally
if we can. The percentage rate Kerrville Phone Company is
offering us is 45 percent, compared to the 20.5 that we are
right now, which I think will bring in a great deal of
additional revenues for the County.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments?
CGMMISSIGNER LETZ: QuesLiuir vu the schedule
from Kerrville Telephone, that graduated schedule. But
we're going Lo always be over 45 percent? I mean --
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At the 45 percent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll always be at that
45 percent figure?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. The number of
calls going out of that jail are tremendous, and they're in
that system.
COMMISSIUNEK WILLIAMS: Does Kerrville
Telephone provide all of the basic things that are listed in
the Evercom --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A whole lot oT
things.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. What it is, they
will come in and replace all the phones in the cells that we
have with tkiis same l.ype -- exact type of phone that we
have. The only difference is the recording equipment is a
little bit different. IL will still do the same
capabilities. I think Evercom's may have theirs specially
made by a certain veudur, where Kerrville Phone Company is
having to acquire this equipment.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would point out,
too, that one of the problems with -- that I saw in the
original Evercom contract was that after the initial term,
if we didn't notify them that we wanted to renew, the entire
agreement renewed for another five years, and that provision
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is still in their present contract. Kerrville Telephone
Company, on the other hand, says after the initial term of
the agreement, it renews month-to-month if we don't say we
continue. So, after the initial term, we can go
month-to-month, and with 30 days notice, get out of it if we
wanted to. It's a much better contract.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had invited Evercom to
be here today, along with Kerrville Phone Company. Travis
had been contacting -- or contacted Evercom about, I
believe, that exact provision in their contract. They
called me late Friday afternoon and said they were offering
us the best that they could do, and I told them, well, I was
leaning towards Kerrville Phone Company, and then they chose
not to appear today.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's one of
the -- the keys to doing business with elected officials
with companies like that. Are they willing to be here and
look us in the eye and have a visit with us and make these
commitments and noncommitments, one thing or another? So --
but they're not here?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They were originally
planning to be here, okay?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you told them not
to come?
SHERIFF HIERHOLGER: No, I didn't tell them

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not to come. I told them I was leaning towards Kerrville
Phone Company, and Travis had already contacted them about
the provision change that he was recommending, and that's
when Evercom told me that they were offering us the best
deal they could do and weren't going to make many changes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One more question,
Sheriff. Is it Kerrville Telephone Company or is it
Advanced Telecom Systems?
AUDIENCE: It's Advanced Telecom Systems.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry?
AUDIENCE: Advanced Telecom Systems. We are
under the umbrella of Kerrville Telephone --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Subsidiary?
Wholly-owned or something?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to
make a motion that we approve the new contract for inmate
telephone systems with Advanced Telecom Systems of
Kerrville, Texas.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court
approve the proposal for jail inmate telephone services from
Advanced Telecom Systems Corporation d/b/a Kerrville
Telephone -- Kerrville Business Systems, subject to the
approval of the County Attorney's office, and authorize
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County Judge to sign same.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one question, and
I'll just refer this to Commissioner Baldwin. Wasn't the
predecessor to Evercom -- didn't we almost end up in a
lawsuit?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes.
MR. VOELKEL: I wanted to make sure I was
thinking of the same
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to
address me. You can address anybody on this Court.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't think they
were on the Court.
DODGE HENNEKE: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, they weren't? Did
you want to be? Okay, that settles it.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I was aware of it
because I went back when we redid all the initial --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought y'all were
here. You missed a good one, then, fellas.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had a lot of trouble
over two years ago with the predecessor to -- the name, I
think, was Security Telecom.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Security 't'elecom.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And almost ended up in a
lawsuit that we had a very hard time resolving. 1
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thought -- I wanted to make clear that was part of the
record.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is
Item Number 12, consider and discuss approval of contract
between Kerr and McCulloch Counties to house McCulloch
County inmates.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is just another one
of our commitments to use the space we have. We have a lot
of space in the jail. Sheriff Howell from McCulloch County,
which is Brady, public-serviced me a week ago asking if we
could house some of their inmates during overflow times, and
that's why I sent him a copy of the contract, brought a copy
back to the County Attorney. It's identical to all the rest
of the contracts we have. It won't be a large number of
inmates, but -- in fact, we currently have two or three of
their inmates in our jail now, because they got to the bad
overcrowding, so we're allowing them to send some over.
DODGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments'?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve the
contract with McCulloch County to house inmates from
McCulloch County in the Kerr County Jail. Any other
questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(NO response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the big and
important things that we do, gentlemen, right there.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 13,
consider and discuss renewing the Sheriff's Office telephone
lease with Kerrville Telephone Company.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This talk all came up
during our inmate phone system stuff also. But, what it
will do is, I currently have a -- what I consider a pretty
severe problem with our number of lines going out and coming
into the Sheriff's Office. It's numerous times each day
that we will pick up the phone to dial outside, and you get
no free lines, okay, which tells me other people are having
problems calling in also, because we just do not have enough
lines in that rotating system. With the current equipment
we have, we have the capability of adding three more lines
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in that system without changing a lot of the equipment. One
of the other problems which really came up during these last
few weeks with having the investigators out constantly was I
do not have, as the rest of the courthouse has, the
capability of voice mail in the -- in any part of the
Sheriff's Office. And, in these discussions, if we renew
the contract or renew the contract lease agreement with the
phone company, it's currently a 3-year lease. If we up it
to the 5-year lease -- Travis also has a copy of that
contract he's looking at -- it will. give us the capability
of having voice mail at the Sheriff's Office, and will add
the three lines that I'm in desperate need of at the
Sheriff's Office at the same time, and it will actually
change our monthly payment, dropping it by one dollar a
month.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dropping it?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Drops it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Increase services and
drop --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And drop the payment. I
think the payment is actually -- to be honest, it's 81 cents
a month that we're going to drop the -- the payment, but it
is dropping it and giving us a lot better capabilities.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Move we approve it as
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presented.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it may be another --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Subject to review, and
authorize the County Judge to sign same.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court
approve the renewal of the Sheriff's Office telephone lease
with Kerrville Telephone Company for a 5-year term, subject
to approval by the County Attorney's office, and authorize
County Judge to sign same. Any other questions or comments?
If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Okay. Item
Number 14, consider and discuss lower level construc~iuu.
Commissioner Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. In your --
in your background there, we put together some -- just some
notes, and I think it's time for us now to really get down
to start making some decisions of what we want to do down
there. Last week I visited with the construction folks.
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You know, they tiad been using that area down there to --
one more week, which this week is the one that he's talking
about. If you remember, we budgeted $50,000 to finish that
out with -- with the thought of using prisoners to do -- to
do the work. And, regardless of whether we use prisoners or
we hire people off the street, we still need to have an
overseer on the -- on the job, and that's kind of -- that's
where we are right now. And we need to -- I need some
guidance from y'all of actually how we can do that. You
know, do you want to -- do you want to wait until everything
is over? This may be -- the way I do this -- the way I say
this may be a little distasteful, and I apologize.
Nevertheless, I'm going to say it, 'cause I want it on the
table. Do we want to wait till everything is over and all
of the people that are employed by the County are out the
door? And start by hiring an overseer? Or we have an
opportunity to continue our relationship with some of our
employees. You know, it depends on how you guys -- what you
think is the best route to go.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to have an
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A.D.A. laws and all those -- you know, the city regulations.
Someone needs to be there to sign off on that thinq. And I
wanted to also add to it and remind you that we have a
County Engineer that, in my mind, is a -- is --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good engineer, too.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, he is a good
engineer. So far. It depends on whether he does this uc
this in a few minutes. But he is the County Engineer, and I
think he's an architectural engineer of some sort. And --
and I think that -- it's my opinion that we should use him
at times like this if we can, as opposed to going outside
and -- and hiring somebody. So -- and y'aIl have all
read -- read my notes here.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments by
the Commissioners?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. I would just
think it would be a good idea to go ahead and yet that
planning process started now.
COMMISSIONEK BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Even though we -- to
actually start the work, we probably want to yet the
contractor who's now working out of there entirely.
COMM155IONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Before we actually
start hammering nails and cutting anything. And and I
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would think that if he -- if we can work something out with
-- with Keith, that that would be a -- is he here, by the
way? With Keith Longnecker. I think that would be a good
idea, because there would be some continuity on how things
got done and where runs were made and all that sort of
thing, 'cause there could be a lot of questions about that
that he might have good firsthand knowledge of.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I have visited
with him about that. He is willing to carry on the -- the
relationship.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, I would suggest if
we could come back with a sort of a plan, and -- and if
we're within the $60,000 that we've got and all that, that
we probably ought to proceed with all due haste.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We will be within the
$60,000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a comment. I
think keeping Keith Longnecker on the job for the purpose of
helping us through that process is good, but I'd like to --
for to us ask him or request of him first to do a complete
planning for the placement based on the input that you've
already gotten of need and so forth, so that without doing
it a little bit here, little bit there, we have a consistent
plan that takes us through from beginning to the end.
COMMISSIUNER GRIFFIN: That could be just a
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good sketch plan. It doesn't have to be totally engineered
at this point. Something for to us plan from. And then --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have some thinys --
I mean, it's not like he's going to be starting from
scratch.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've done a lot of
the -- a lot of things already.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, my
comment is, I don't know -- I don't have any problem with
using Heith Longnecker, but I think -- 1 don't see any
reason to hire an engineer-slash-architect and Keith
Longnecker. This is a relatively small project, We're
talking about design more than -- and layout and making sure
we follow the city and state codes. So, you know, I
think -- I believe Mr. Longnecker is an engineer as well. I
presume he's licensed in the state of 'Texas. But L think
whoever we use, we need to have one person. I don't know
that we need have two -- two people --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For this size --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- workiny on a
$60,000 -- putting up some sheetrock.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, so -- you know, and
you mentioned earlier using the County Engineer. To me, I
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think either Franklin wants to do it, which is not under his
current job description to do stuff like this, or use Keith
Longnecker, but I don't see the need for both.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We might just ask for
Franklin to do some -- just coordinate on does it look -- is
it a reasonableness -- is there a reasonableness factor? So
many times, you get two engineers together, sometimes we
even agree on things, so it gives you some confidence ~o
~ proceed.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I would -- I'm certainly in
agreement with what we're talking about. I would ]ike to
see us, though, do this, if we do it with Keith, under a
separate agreement. I believe the agreement we have with
him is specifically tied to the renovation.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So I'd like to see us not tag
onto that, but to simply ask him for perhaps a proposal as
to what he would -- how he would approach the problem of -
of preparing the drawings, the plans and specifications and
any oversight that we might want him to do, and bring that
back and take it from there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I think it does
need to -- it needs to be very specific, that whoever we're
using needs to get the permits from the City -- I presume
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we're going to get new permits. And also make sure we're
following all the A.D.A. and fire and --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's indicated to me
that he would do exactly that, get away from the original
agreement and come in with a new agreement.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has he indicated to
you what his estimated cost would be to do that?
COMMISSIONEP. BALDWIN: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Less than $60,000.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it will be less
than $60,000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I should hope so.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But here -- here is --
I have two problems that I want to bring up. Oise, we're in
far enough, Commissioner Griffin, to -- we need to make a
decision about the computer guru office space. Or we may
want to just go ahead and include an office space down there
for future use. You may want to consider that. We can draw
it both ways.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: To answer that
question rather quickly, I think for the computer support
specialist position, we're going to have to put it over
there. From discussion with Tommy and knowing a little bit
now about what kind cf space requirements we would have,
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he's -- he or she is going to need that separate place where
computer equipment -- significant computer equipment is
going to be located, and so -- and we just dun't have
anywhere else that I know of, that Tommy knows of.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a yes or a no?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a yes.
COMMISSIONER BALllWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WZLLIAMS: That suggests that
you're going to move it out of the space that it is now
behind the Tax Assessor's -- Tax Collector's office,
ultimately?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not necessarily. That
-- that equipment could stay where iL is, but we can
cable -- the cable is already there. We can cable all the
stuff that the computer specialist will need to an area over
there to be able to build web sites and all that sort of
thing. That's just a connection. We may want to look at
that relocation, too.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. The other
-- the other problem is -- is using the inmates for -- for
the workers. Now, I visited witY~ our good Sheriff a couple
weeks ago, and he made a comment that bothered me just a
little, and I want to get -- I'm not trying to hurt anybody
here; I just want to get everything out on the table. And
he made the comment of there is a possibility that they may
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have to pull the inmates off of the job and go somewhere
else to do other functions. I don't know how many functions
they do; I don't have any idea, But, he -- that was a
thought that had been on his mind, that he may have to get
our worker bees and take them somewhere else and be worker
bees on another project. And, I don't -- in my mind, that's
-- that's really not acceptable, particularly if we have
someone on staff that we're paying every day, that we need
to have people here working.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there a lot of
demand for carpenters and --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In prisoner's garb?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Let the Sheriff address that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'f here he is nuw,
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you, Buster. The
only problem I see is there are certain -- due to
classifications and that, even though we run 120, l30
inmates, you know, in that jail, there's a limited number,
due to security risk and everything else, that I can
actually pull out at a time that fit into the appropriate
classification. We are doing more and more with those
outside trustees, 'cause they can have inside trustees work
their classification, but different -- but outside ones,
we're picking up trash along the highways now, we're doing a
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lot more of the -- the maintenance, especially around our
facility, the mowing and all that kind of stuff, and it can
approved to go outside, and I have to have an officer with
them at all times for -- for the security. You know, three
or four may not be what you want over here. I don't know.
And then it's just -- there's a lot up in the air.
I'd be more than happy to provide -- and I
think we'd have, you know, plenty of volunteers for that
part, but I'd be more than happy to provide inmate workers
to do the amount of work that can possibly be done to save
us all the extra money. I just can't answer a lot of
questions of what type classifications we're going to have
in jail during that time, how many of them. Most of them
that are classified that can go outside are there 3U, 6U
days, and they're gone. You know, 'cause they're serving
out some short-term sentences or things like that. They're
-- and some of the classifications that -- that state that I
cannot use -- and this is something that you just need to be
aware of -- are, like, DWI's, okay? I can't use a DWI
person outside. So, it does get real particular under state
laws and that on which ones we can use. I'm more than happy
to cooperate and help do anything we can do. 1 just can't
answer you how many we could have available at different
times.
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COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's the
risk we take for the savings.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
DODGE HENNEKE: Is that what you need,
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes.
DODGE HENNEKE: Okay, very good.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
DODGE HENNEKE: Let's move on to Item Number
15, consider and discuss review of Revision of Plat, Section
5.04 of the Kerr County Subdivision Rules and Regulations,
to determine if modifications to this section are needed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda
just because it's the one provision in our new Subdivision
Rules that I get, I guess, more and more questions about,
and the more I get questions, the more undecided I am
personally as to how we should interpret the rules. So, I
thought I'd put it before the Court, and I -- just to get
some direction, and then I can come back at a future date,
try to draft the language that meets the Court's desires.
There are three things under this provision I want to
discuss. One, due to an oversight, we left off a paragraph
out of state law that -- with regards to metes and bounds
being changed, and allowing that as a revision without
having to go to a public hearing process that we talked
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about at our last meeting. That one is -- you know, already
will be done, or will come back to Court.
The next one is a -- is the second one listed
on the backup. It's review possibility of minor revision of
plat that would comply with Section 232 of the Local
Government Code and be acceptable to the County. This has
come up several times. We used to call them minor replats,
where we changed lot lines around, and just the
Commissioners signed off on them without bringing it back
before the full Court. During the -- this most recent
revision, we -- or I eliminated that provision because I
didn't see any provision in Section 232 to allow a
Commissioner individually to do anything; they had to come
before the Court. And, if it goes under Revision of Plat,
then it went through the whole notification process, which
has been a burden to the developer and I think a burden to
the Court.
With some assistance from an outside attorney
who was hired by a local developer, he pulled up this
particular provision, 232.010, Exception to Plat
Requirement, County Determination, as a possibility of a way
we had some wiggle room. And, I referred this to Travis
also, and I read it. I have a -- I guess a question that I
have with this provision is, the way I read it, is we have
some latitude into what we require to come before the Court
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to require platting, but if we go in there and allow a minor
revision, I don't see that we then can require a revised
plat. I don't see how we can have a revised plat without
going through the process to the bottom line. You know, I
would like to -- my preference would be to not have to go
through the whole process of revision of plat and
notification, but have the revised -- but we do need to get
the revised plat in the County Clerk's office. And, it's a
fine-line distinction there, and I'd probably refer it to
Travis to -- he and I have talked about this several Limes,
and I guess get Travis' thoughts as to can we do a -- I
guess a revision of plat without going through the
notification and require the developer to give us a revised
plat.
MR. LUCAS: Right. Do you want me to talk
about that one? Okay. What's interesting, I found out, is
that a lot of counties don't use this, and it's been in the
law since '89, 1989. But, it looks like that we're going to
be able to use it specifically for the facts that you
presented, Commissioner, which is lot line changes, and Lt's
exactly the -- you know, the way the law reads. And I know
y'a11 -- do y'all have that before you? I think y'al] do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MR. LUCAS: Where we have, you know, of
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already been platted, and conveyance. I mean, it's as
simple as that.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could we require that
-- that whatever document -- does that conveyance get filed
with the Court or filed with the County so that it becomes a
part of the record?
MR. LUCAS: Sure. I think --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Attached to the plat.
MR. LUCAS: -- we would have to do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we need to
require the actual plat be revised; just document the
changes made. Otherwise, we end up -- my concern has been
that I wouldn't want us to get plats that aren't accurate.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. And that's
what happens if you don't have some way of getting that into
the record.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, that's the
-- I mean, if the Court is of the same opinion, then we'll
go back to this provision, which will eliminate or alleviate
the notification requirement on lot line changes.
MR. LUCAS: Right. What I would like to do,
if it's okay, is just have a discussion with other County
Attorneys who handle, you know, sclely civil matters; maybe
Travis County, Bexar County, that have more development
issues, and talk to them about it. A lot of them were gone
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last week when Jonathan and I first broached the subject;
they were at a county attorney's school, so everyone's been
out. But, I'd like to kind of have a discussion with them
to see how they use it, if that's okay.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good deal.
MR. LrJCAS: And maybe we'll have an answer by
next week.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And that answers
that one. The other one is a little bit -- kind of
philosophically more difficult for me. It's -- "grandfather
provision" is what I've termed it, and it's -- it came up
out of a developer or individual in Larry's precinct; Larry
referred him to me. This -- the facts of this particular
case was, it was in a platted subdivision. This person had
a 7 1/2-acre tract and wanted to sell it to another
individual. That individual wanted to divide it into three
lots, and under our current rules, the answer is no because
of the 5-acre lot size minimum. It's under. And, they
would be willing to put in a water system; that was not an
issue. And, you know, that's -- I guess, when I reread the
rules, that's how I came down as to what the rules say.
The problem I have with this is, after I
started thinking about it, you get into a situation of
property rights, to me, a little bit. You could easily have
a situation where an individual, five years ago, went into a
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subdivision when our rules were 2 l/2 acres, bought a 9-acre
tract with the full intent at that time to sell off two lots
and keep one lot and build a home, and that was part of
their retirement plan was to do it that way. And, all of a
sudden, we come along with one Court action and say, you
can't do that. In fact, you can't even sell any of your
9-acre tract to a -- to have a building site. And, I have
a -- I guess a philosophical problem with what we've done.
I don't have a philosophical problem with -- we can go the
other way, too. I'm -- I'm not sure which way. I just
thought 1'd put it on the agenda, get a little bit of
direction, 'cause to me, we're -- it's unfair to the public
and to some lot owners for to us say, you know, after
they've bought their lots and in these subdivisions that
were fully compliant with the rules at the time, that they
can't do what they intended, possibly. But, at the same
time, the intent of this Court is to increase lot sizes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: My response to that is that
that's a variance issue. The person who owned the lot at
the time the -- we put the new rules in has the right, as
anybody does, to come before the Court for a variance. Now,
if -- if a person with a 9-acre tract sells it to somebody
else who then comes before us to subdivide it into 3-acre
tracts, I think that the subsequent. purchaser has a problem,
because he bought the 9-acre tract knowing what the
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Subdivision Rules were. But, I think the individual who
owned the 9-acre tract to start out with has a legitimate
method to come before the Court for a variance. That's my
response.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, that would work.
That would work. And -- but I think I agree with Jonathan,
we need to address this issue, because it's -- fair is fair,
you know. And, while we -- and what we did with the -- for
example, the new 5-acre rule is really, to me, more applied
to new subdivisions. In other words, if a developer comes
in and is going to put in a new subdivision, that -- you
know, because of water availability, septic, density,
doesn't make any difference. But, there is a new rule now
for new subdivisions, certainly, and that this older
subdivision that was created before that rule ought to have
some way -- and perhaps a variance is the way to do it -- of
sort of meeting the original intent of that owner who bought
the property.
JUllGE HENNEKE: I think a variance is the way
to do it, because if you try to write something in, there's
no way to write something which addresses all the
situations. So, you do it through a variance, and when the
variance comes before us, we'll see what date they bought
the property, what the configuration was at the time they
bought the property, what the rules were at the time, what
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their intended use is for the property. We can get some
advice from our Designated Representative as to whether the
reconfigured lots would be suitable for O.S.S.F. To me,
that's the way you address that problem, is through a
variance situation, rather than trying to write a
grandfathering rule which somehow magically encompasses all
the permutations.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And you never can
cover them all.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No matter how hard you
try.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had recently, last
week, had the exact same thing come up. A guy in San
Antonio had purchased land out south of town, 29 acres, many
years ago, with the thought at some point he'll retire and
come up here and -- and cut it up into 2 1/2, 3 acres,
whatever it might be, but now we're telling him that he
cannot do that. And he says, "Commissioner Baldwin, you're
taking my property. You're a government agency taking my
private property," and he's absolutely right. But I think
that is a solution, variances. I've been doing this a long
time; you've got to be careTul with variances, but there is
a place for them.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've been - and, I
mean, I guess probably the best solution, because I think it
would be almost impossible to write a -- a rule --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would be.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that wouldn't be
volumes long to try to cover all the situations. It would
be so confusing by the time we were finished. But, I think
that it's also going in a direction that the Court
historically is not going to do, which was variances. So,
we've always tried to get away from having to do variances.
I think in this situation, this is one that it may be the
best way to handle it. Would the Court like to have a
provision drafted by -- you know, to add to our Subdivision
Rules regarding this issue? Because, I mean, it comes up a
lot, and people don't Y,now how to handle it. Or just let
them call and -- you know, I mean, we -- I think you could
refer Lo it as a situation, saying any subdivision approved
prior to this, you know, date, the date we adopted the last
one, where lot sizes are -- you know, something -- come up
with some language.
JUDGE HENNEKE: You'd have to be careful.
From what we just discussed, it would be the owners of lots
in a platted subdivision, but that was platted prior to the
date. So, I mean, you know, again, once you start trying to
put grandfather language in, you have to start parsing the
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apple. So, if we have a variance procedure -- and, to me,
that -- that suffices for the situation, because otherwise
you have to -- you know, it's not just the fact that it was
in a subdivision that was platted prior to the date of our
new rules. You had to have been the owner of that lot.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: And then, you know --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. Travis?
MR. LUCAS: I'll talk to you aLterwards.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have a
question on 232.010. We recently had some situation just
like that where somebody came in with a 10-acre lot, or --
it was platted as two 5's and wanted to make it 10, or
vice-versa, and that put somebody through a ]ot of hoops
just to do that, what we're doing right now. What would be
the mechanism for this?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The mechanism --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before, a
Commissioner could make the decision.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would still have to
come before the Court. It would be a one-trip -- I think we
could reduce it to one trip to the Court, basically.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- but it would Have
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to be to approve a revised plat, and with no notification
requirement, as referred.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which, in effect, is
what we did.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In accordance with
232.010, is how you word the agenda item.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'll -- do we need
to do a public hearing on revising this one paragraph, or
can we just do it?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It says "significant."
I think you could say this was probably not significant.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd defer to the County
Attorney on that one.
MR. LUCAS: You know, I get real conservative
with things like this. I always want to --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Before you get to
that, could I raise one other issue, which -- and this
probably would require a public hearing, so we may just
follow it in time. I had mentioned to Jonathan this
morning, one of the things we do not address directly in our
Subdivision Rules are commercial properties that are in the
county. In other words, let's take a -- for an example,
a -- a piece of property along Highway 27 that is going to
have a strip center built on it. Totally in the county.
Could be in the ET J, too. And, so, we're -- we don't lay
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out any requirements about how -- how a lot might either be
subdivided, or what are those minimum lot size requirements
and that sort of thing, and it is slightly different. I'm
not proposing a solution to this. It's just something that,
after a brief discussion with Commissioner Letz, I think we
need to address in the rules. Just needs to be in addition.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I wasn't aware that the
subdivision -- there were different subdivision rules for
residential and commercial.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's not. That's
exactly what I'm saying.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So I'm not sure that we have
the authority to make a decision.
MR.. LUCAS: Yeah. I don't think you do. I
think --
JUDGE HENNEKE: One rule for subdivisions,
period, whether it's for residential or commercial,
industrial.
MR. LUCAS: Ag.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Whatever.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we don't have any
authorization to have --
MR. LUCAS: lt's just solely subdivision.
That's it. Makes no distinction whatsoever. As long as you
divide a piece of property into lots where a subdivision --
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or for streets, allies, so forth, parks, that's the
definition of subdivision --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay.
MR. LUCAS: -- in 232, period.
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not tied to use at all.
It's tied to dividing the property.
MR. LUCAS: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So, if you had
a property that was not subdivided, but had numerous
businesses on it, then you -- you're -- you're still looking
at just, then, a water issue and a septic or sewage
disposal --
MR. LUCAS: Well, the roads and drainage and
all the other parameters.
JUDGE HENNEKE: What you'd probably see on
that type of thing is you'd have one large lot on which
there'd be more than one business located, but it wouldn't
be sold off, particularly if you're talking about a strip
center.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Each business wouldn't own
their own lots, so --
COMMISSIONER GR1r'r'IN: Lease or sell the
structure.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'll be getting
with Travis; we'll come up with some language. If we need a
public hearing, we'll do it. If not, we'll put it --
MR. LUCAS: Just real quick, are you speaking
about 232.010?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes.
MR. LUCAS: Okay. I don't think we would
have -- my rationale is I don't think we would have to have
a public hearing to amend that, because the statute already
gives us that authority to do it anyway. See what I'm
saying? So -- and what would we be talking about'? If the
Legislature gives us the authority to do it, it's
permissive, you know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, that's --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Franklin, you had a comment?
MR. JOHNSTON: Only question that comes up in
our office, people call in; under the Headwaters rules, it
says you can only divide an existing subdivision -- you can
only add 20 percent more lots. Does that mean the
subdivisions that have several replat provisions would reach
that 20 percent, they're frozen, can't do any more plat
revisions?
JUDGE HENNEKE: No, they're not frozen. They
just have to satisfy the water availability requirements.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: For example, in the
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situation I was talking about earlier where the person had
the 7-acre lot, say we were going to let them sell off two
lots. If there's 700 lots in that subdivision, they
wouldn't have to do anything. If that was the -- if that
revision would put them over that 20 percent threshold, then
they'd have to do a water -- meet the water availability
requirements.
MR. JOHNSTON: If a subdivision is such that
the average lot size is less than 5 acres and all, it could
be a matter of that they could never replat again.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, just depends.
They have to look at all the exemptions, to the water
availability requirements and the number of replats,
compared to the -- that have already been done.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, good.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The hour draws close to noon.
What's the desire of the Court? Do you want to push
through? Do you want to --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Press.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Press, okay. Next item is
Item Number 16, consider and discuss approval of reserved
parking plan for lower level parking and authorize County
Judge to make minor revisions. What I'm handing out now is
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an already revised plan. Basically, what the plan did was
it took some people from the west side and moved them to the
east side. The County Clerk, Jannett Pieper, said she wants
to be up -- up on the top level, and we'll give her a space
on the west side once we get that lot done. The reason I'm
bringing this -- I think this needs to be a -- a Court
action. The urgency of it is that we have a massive jury
pool coming in a week from tomorrow, and I think they've
called 500 people, because it's that civil wrongful death
trial for Alan Blackthorn out of San Antonio. And yours
truly is one of the jury pool. But I think it would be
beneficial if we get this in place; people could start
parking down there. Make it effective Monday, the 2nd,
which will give the Maintenance Department some time to --
to do a few moving signs and -- and maybe a little striping.
It's going to take longer, and also some fund reallocation
to get the -- the bumpers. That's something we'll have to
address probably as part of our budget discussions this
summer, but I want to get the approval of the Court for this
so we can circulate it, get people to start utilizing the
designated spaces and relieve some of the pressure on the
parking along the -- the perimeter.
COMMISSION~:H BALUWIN: Can I ask you a
question real quick? I'm big-time in favor here, but are
these employee, employee, employee, employee?
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And these are
reserved, reserved?
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And suddenly we have
Mrs. Rector out here on the end?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. She asked for that
space specifically because of the size of her vehicle, and
since it's -- you know, meets the criteria down there, 1
mean, it doesn't make any difference whether she's there or
over here. The number of spaces is fungible.
MS. NEMEC; We're all asking for copies.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'd like to see.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want to
approve? I'll make a motion so we can go eat lunch.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court
approve the plan for reserved parking -- parking at the
lower level and authorize County Judge to make the minor
revisions that are necessary. Any further questions or
comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, my truck is
brown and it's real small. Can I park at the front door?
No?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sy the way, just for
the record, I have asked the Judge to consider, when we get
up there assigning the lot up above, that we have, like, two
slots for Commissioners. Not just reserved. Two slots for
Commissioners.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe that's what we're
going to do over here; have one for myself and one for J.Y.
1, and then two for Commissioners, and then the rest would
be for employees on this side. And, over on the other side
would be Ms. Pieper, and the rest would be employees.
That's the way it's shaping up at this time. Now, 1'll just
tell you that when we get the lots done up ahead -- up
above, I would bring those back to the Court for approval,
because I want the Court to have adopted an order which
requires and requests our employees to park in these lots,
and we want to make these for employees only so that we,
again, free up the maximum number of spaces along the
perimeter. That wculd be coming at a time in the future.
Moving right along, Item Number 17, consider
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and discuss a resolution in favor of a Hill Country State
Representative District. I had a conversation with
Representative Hilderbran in Austin on the 15th of March.
Our Representative was concerned about the fact that there
have been some discussions about a district which would be
Kerr County, Kendall County, and Comal County, with Comal
County being the majority of population. I agree with the
Representative that our interests are not necessarily
conterminous with that of Comal County, since they're in the
hot I-35 corridor. I think we'd be better served to be with
our neighbors, Gillespie, Kendall, et cetera. Harvey said
it would be helpfu] if we could do a resolution which we can
forward on and make part of the public record, and that's
why it's here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Third.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court adopt
the resolution in support of a Hill Country State
Representative District. I will say, there's circulating
among you all a notice from Representative Jones, who is the
chair of the House Redistricting Committee, about a public
hearing on Wednesday. I'm unable to attend because I'm
going to be in Lubbock. I think if anyone has the time and
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the interest to go and make a formal presentation of this
resolution, it would be helpful. If anyone has the desire
to do that, we'd be happy to provide them with the
resolution to take and speak to the issue of our desire to
be lumped in with other counties that have --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that committee
meeting in Austin?
JUDGE HENNEKE: It is a public hearing on the
House Redistricting Plan, There's one Wednesday on House
and one Thursday on the Senate. But right now, we're
particularly concerned about the House, the State House.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's in Austin?
JUDGE HENNEKE: In Austin. I believe it's
Wednesday morning, so anyone who's interested can talk.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll be up there
Thursday, but I wasn'i_ going to be there Wednesday.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, yesterday i
had the opportunity to talk with David Gorber at K,I.S.D.
He asked that I forward him a copy of this, which 1 did.
It's his intention to introduce it before the K,I.S.D.
i Board.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We also sent one to the City
Council; I believe it's on the agenda for tomorrow, and also
gave one to the Chamber of Commerce, and they are going to
do a letter resolution in support of the Hill Country State
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Representative District. Any further questions or comments?
If not, all in favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sLgn.
(No response.}
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is
Item Number 18, consider and discuss resolution reaffirming
Kerr County support for the TexDOT Spur 98-slash-High Bridge
Project. This is something that. Bill Tucker has asked us to
do. Furthermore, he's asked someone to be at the public
hearing on Thursday to present this resolution. There's no
question about our support of the project, but we need to
put it on the public record, which is what ttie TexDOT
hearing on Thursday is. Again, I'll be out of town on
Thursday, but we do need a volunteer.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll be there.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin, you're
going to attend and you'L1 read the resolution?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll point out that since we
didn't post that -- that meeting, no more than two of us
should attend the TexDOT publir_ meeting Thursday evenLng.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are one of y'a11 going?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to be in
Austin.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's safe. I'll be
out of town as well. Any further questions or comments? Do
we have a motion to adopt the resolution?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we -- the
Court approve a resolution in support of the extension of
Spur 98. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in
favor, raise your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is
Item Number 19, consider and discuss approval of Certificate
of Substantial Completion for the second floor courthouse
east end Phase 3B and Certificate of Substantial Completion
for the partial first floor, partial lower level Phase 3A,
and authorize County Judge to sign both. Mr. Longnecker.
MR. LONGNECKER: As you all know, I'm Keith
Longnecker, the liaison for the Commissioners Court for
remodeling and so forth. And, it's been two years -- over
two years, and we're still working on items of -- punch list
items, for the most part, to complete this. There are
several things left on the punch list which are not
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complete; namely, window painting on the Annex, painting of
handrails out here, and several others that -- HVAC and
plumbing items that are still not complete. And, we've also
had one problem come up that was written in my ]ast report
to the Commissioners about the brick mortar on the building
over here. It is chalking and we don't know at this point
whether or not it's the right mortar, whether it was mixed
right, whether there was anything wrong with it, or whether
it's just the cleaner that was usea on the bridge that's
causing it to spaw].
I recommended in my report that we have a
test done by Drash Engineering, who has a two-part test that
they would use to determine if that mortar is going to be
okay, if it will withstand the years that we expect to get
out of it, and/or if it's going to deteriorate and have to
be resurfaced. Also, in my report, I recommend sealing, and
this is the one thing that I think that both Judge Henneke
and I feel that perhaps we should hold up on the Substantial
Completion until this little problem is resolved. And, Mike
Walker is not here; I think he expected to be here this
afternoon, that you would carry over.
JUDGE HENNEKE: He guessed wrong again.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We're in charge
of it. Mike's not.
MR. LONGNECKER: I know.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to get that
clear at some point.
MR. LONGNECKER: It may be my fault, because
I said I didn't really know when you would get to this item.
But, at any rate --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keith, before you
leave that, you -- you used the word "chalking" and
"sprawl"? I don't know what -- I don't know what that
second word is.
MR. LONGNECKER: It's a spawling. Spawling.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do those words
mean?
	MR.	LONGNECKER:	Well, it means that --
	COMMISSIONER GRI	FFIN: Come apart.
	MR.	LONGNECKER:	-- sand and mortar are
coming loose	from	the joints in	the brick, themselves.
	COM	MISSIONER BAL	DWIN: Mm-hmm.
	MR.	LONGNECKER:	In other words, you can rub
your thumb --	your	finger over	it, and you'll get sand in it
and the mortar on	your finger,	that perhaps you shouldn't
get.			
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That doesn't sound
like a good thing to be happening, does it?
MR. LONGNECKER: Ne, but then my thoughts are
that it needs to be tested. In other words, did the -- did
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the bricklayer, the masonry contractor, properly mix the
mortar? You can tell that by simply taking a noninvasive
sample of the mortar and testing it to see if it has the
right amount of cement and sand and the proper amount of
lime and whatever the ingredients are that make up the
Type S mortar tYiat we should have had. And, the contractor
is claiming that this is caused by the cleaner they used to
clean down the brick. They used to use muriatic acid, but
it's no longer being used, and they have another chemical
that they use, and he's saying that sometimes this is what
happens, is that there's a light amount of chalking and the
sand and stuff coming of E. It's real fine. It's not --
and, my concern is that perhaps we should even seal the
building. And, at this point, I would rather see -- tell
whether or nct we need to seal it or not, and if it is --
mortar is not. mixed, I think it -- properly, and we don't
have what we should have, then it's up to the contractor to
perhaps provide us with a seal, to seal it. Now, this is
the sentiment of the architect as well.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Are you suggesting that we
hold off on both Certificates of Substantial Completion
until we find out about this chalking problem?
MR. LONGNECKER: I think I would, yes,
uh-huh.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think this is -- you

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know, the -- I've talked to Keith about this quite a bit,
and I am very reluctant to even consider a Certificate of
Substantial Completion with what could be a significant
shortfall in -- in the construction of -- and I don't want
to give anyone any encouragement that they may be able to
walk away with a problem that we haven't tied down, whether
there is a problem, and what the solution would be.
MR. LONGNECKER: To me, the job also needs
about another week just to pick up several of these things
that are not right. I think Glenn and the rest of the staff
in Maintenance will need to see a few more things happen to
be sure that we are in a position cohere we can say that this
is finished.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Does the contract call
for some landscaping by these ramps?
MR. LONGNECKER: No.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's something we'll
have to put in.
MR. LONGNECKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with holding off.
I think we can put it on the next agenda. Also, you might
point out, you know, our eagerness to sign this may be
affected by how much of this punch list he gets finished in
the next two weeks.
MR. LONGNECKER: Quite a bit of the punch

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list is finished, but still there are probably two --
two-thirds of it might be finished, but at this point, until
we get through checking everything, we would like to make
sure that it's farther along.
JUDGE HENNEKE: So we'll just hold off on
this and place it back on the agenda for the next meeting,
if Mr. Longnecker thinks it's appropriate to go forward.
MR. LONGNECKER: Okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you, Keith. Is
there anything else? If there's nothing else to come before
us, we stand adjourned. Thank you.
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:08 p.m.)
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2`
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of March,
2001.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY : __ f~iyGl1C..
Kathy Ba ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
,,., ORDER NO, 26933
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
On this the 26th day of March 2001, it came to be considered
by the court various claims and acco~.~nts against Ner•r County
and the various commissioner^'s precincts, which said claims
and accounts are:
10-General Fund for• 8133, 621.64; il-J~xr^y Fund for• 52, 033.80;
15-Road R Bridge Fund for 52,372.50; 23-Junvenile State Aid
Fund for 5100.00;24-Traffic Safety Fund for• 51,110.0@;
50-Indigent Health Care Fund for 5482.70; 83-Tate Funded-216th
Dist Attorney Fund for• 5519.83; 86-State F~.inded-216th Dist
Prob. Fund for 53,716.52; 87-State Funded-Community
Corrections Fund for• 52,235,32; (TOTAL ALL FUNDS- 5146,193.31)
Upon motion made by Commissioner Let z, seconded by
Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote
of 4-0-0, payment of said Claims and Accounts as recomended by
the County Auditor.
ORDER NO 26934
BUDGET AMENDMENT/COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE
On this the 26th day of March 2@@1, upon motion made by
Commissioner^ Griffin, seconded by Commissioner^ Baldwin, the
Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-@-0, to tr-ansfer^
5128.16 from Line item #1@-4@3-562 Computer Software to Line
item #1@-4@~-57@ Capital Outlay.


ORDER NO 26935
BUDGET AMENDMENT
AGRICULTURE EXTENSION SERVICE
On this the 26th day of March 2m01, upon motion made by
Commissioner Let z, seconded by Commissioner Gr-iffin, the Court
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-O-Q~, to approve Budget
Rmendment Request Number 2 and author-ize issuance of a hand
check to Laurinda Boyd in the amount of E474.25 as
r•eimbur-Bement for lodging expense, and to transfer- E197.02
from Line item #10-66~-4^c6 stock show travel , to Line item
#10-66~-42B Reimbursed Travel.
ORDER NO 26936
BUDGET RMENDMENT
DISTRICT CLERK.
On this the ^c6th day of Mar^ch 2001, upon motion made by
Commissioner' Williams, seconded by Commissioner Gr-iffin, the
Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-@-0, to transfer'
31,000.@0 from Line item #10-450-108 Part-Time Salar^ies to
Line item #10-450-31@ Office Supplies.

ORDER NO 26337
BUDGET RMENDMENT
COUNTY CLERKS OFFICE
On this the 26th day of Mar^ch 2001, upon motion made by
Commissioner' Williams, seconded by Commissioner- Letz, the
Court unanimously appr^oved by a vote of 4-0-0, to transfer
E215.00 from Line item #10-40~-430 Election Notices to Line
item #10-40^c-330 Supplies, and to transfer' S3, c^^00.00 from Line
item #10-402-210 to Line item #10-403-570.
ORDER NO 26938
DELCARE AN EMERGENCY
COURTHOUSE SECURITY
RUDGET RMENDMENT
On this the 26th day of Mar^ch :'001, upon motion made by
Commissioner- Griffin, seconded by Commissioner- Williams,
the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to declar^e
an emergency and to approve R~_idget Rmendment # 5, with funds
to come from sur-plus r^eser^v es, to be distr^ibuted as follows:
52, 315. 1i into Line item # 29-636-104 Deputy Salary
5176. 4B into Line item #^c9-636-201 FICR Expense
.-. 5527.63 into Line item #29-636-202 Group Insurance
5179.92 into Line item #29-636-203.
ORDER NO 26940
APPROVRL OF LATE RILL
DISTRICT CLERIC'S OFFICE
On this the 26th day of Mar-ch 2001, upon motion made by
Commissioner^ Gr-iffin, seconded by Commissioner Let z, the Court
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to appr-ove Late Pill
in the amount of 68@. 00. 870.00 from Line item #1@-450-^c 16
employee training, and 810.00 fr^om Line item #10-450-485
conferences;and author-ire the County Auditor and the County
Treas~_irer to write hand check in the amount of 680.00 to The
County and District Clerk's Association.
ORDER NO 26941
APPROVE AND ACCEPT MONTHLY REPORTS
On this the 26th day of Mar-ch 2@@1, came to be considered by
Co~_irt the var•io~_is monthly r•epor•ts of Kerr County and Precinct
Officials for- Ker•r• County. Upon motion made by Commissioner
Let z, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-@-@, to accept said r•epor•ts and they
should be filed in the County Clerk's Office for• future audit:
Kerr County Sheriff's Dept.
Monthly Report- September 2@@@
JP-#4- William E. Ragsdale
Monthly Report
Fines, Judgements and Jury Fees
Collected for the month of February 2@@1
District Clerk- Linda Uecker^
Monthly Report- February 2@@1
I]hT)F=1~ N(7 ii.?G`:)47.F1
Sil:_CObIT) Ella: F't]UNI)f-1'T'l:fahl
I ~I...fll+Ihl]:hlf:; f:OMMl T T E:E::
Chi tl'1:i< 't:hu~;> i?(;tl'i catty o'F I*la'rctl i?t]Cl]., t.(I:x:>n nurL:i.c:1n marlttr 1:1y
t.. (:1 n1111:L'EiRi:L C11'1 E?'r` T:; ii .L CI W:L IIy <.:>t'_+c~orlrl c_+cl by Comma. <.:;s:i.orrca'r fi'r:i.'f ~f:i.n,
T;;h r:.± C;~.:xa~rl- unanimously approved by a vote o'F 4-0--0, to al:l pcl:i.1'rl;
<:i pl.ann:irul c::t:nnm:i.{rk;et:~ cx:nnpc:lscata c:1f f]onun i.<.ass:i.tane'r L_c~t;z <:rrua
(.. f:l lflnl a.'.li S:L (]t"le'f` L~17..I. ]. :I. anl'.3 't: C1 fi?Ei't:a l:1 ]. :I. Ei I'1 a I:)C?CJC11ld (lrl:. 're<.:>au'rce
ccnrt;crr i.n 1=:Lat Fior.:Ic L..al:.e I'arlc..
OR6ER NO 26942
PROCLAIM THE MONTH OF RPRIL
AS "CLEAN UP OUR ACT" MONTH
On this the 26th day of March c20Q~1, upon motion made by
Commissioner- Williams, seconded by Commissioner- Griffin, the
Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-fD-Q1, to proclaim the
month of Rpr•il as "Clean up o~_ir- Act" month.
ORDER NO 2E943
ABANDONMT/VACATE/DISCONTINUE VERDE MESR DRIVE E.
SET PUBLIC HEARING ON SAME
On this the 2Eth day of Mar^ch 20Q~1, upon motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Camniissioner• Gr^iffin, the
Court unanimously approved 6y a vote of 4-0-0, to set Public
Hear^ing to be held at 1Q~:00 a. m. on Monday, May 14th, 2001, in
Ker-r- County Courthouse, Commissioner's Courtroom, for the
purpose of abandoning, vacating, and discontinuing Verde Mesa
Drive E. In Vista Ridge Estates, Precinct ^c.
ORDER NO 26944
APPROVE PRELININRRY PLRT FOR TRRCT 53A
KERRVILLE COUNTRY ESTATES SECTION II
On this the 26th day of March 2Q~Q~1, upon motion made by
Commissioner Paldwin, seconded by Commissioner Lets, the
Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to appr-ove the
pr^eliminar^y revision pf plat for• Lot 53-A of f;err^ville Country
Estates, Section II.
ORDER NO 26945
APPROVE RIDS AND RCCEPT RECOMENDRTION
RDAD AND BRIDGE DEPARTMENT
On this the 26th day of March 2@@1, upon motion made by
Commissioner Let z, seconded by Commissioner- Williams, the
Co~ar^t uanimously approved by a vote of 4-@-@, to accept
r•ecomendation of Road R Bridge Deptartment and award the
bids for- var-ious items in the pr^ior•ity order
r^ecomended, subject to the law in pr^ocur^ement, and that Mr^.
Lucas and Mr-. Odom consult and make suer that all legal
r^equir^ements ar•e satisfied.
r--
ORDER NO ^c694F~
EXTEND DEADLINE FOR RESPONSES TO RFP'S
SHERIFF'S DEPT. COMMUNICRTION SYSTEM
Dn this the 26th day of March
Commissioner' 6r•iffin, secande
Co~.ir•t unanimously approved by
deadline for• responses to the
communication system from May
Year- 2001.
2001, upon motion made by
~ 6y Commissioner• $aldwin, the
a vote of 4-0-0, to extend the
RFP'S for• Sheriff's Department
11th, Year 2001, to May 25th,
ORDER NO 26947
BUDGET RMENDMENT
SHERIFF'S DEPRRTMENT
Dn this the 26th day of Mar^ch 2@01, upon motion made by
Commissioner^ Let z, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, the Court
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to amend the approved
capital items for the Sheriff's Dept, to include a spare
pr•inter•, and authorize use of the unexpended Capital Outlay
Monies for^ that piece of equipment, Line item #10°,-6@-570.
~~
ORDER NO 26948
NEW CONTRRCT FOR INMRTE PHONE SERVICES
SHERIFF'S DEPT.
On this the 26th day of March 2Q~Q~1, upon motion made by
Commissioner^ Paldwin, seconded by Commissioner- Let z, the
Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-Q-0, to approve the
proposal for jail inmate telephone services from Advanced
Telecom Systems Corporation, d/b/a Kerrville
Telephone-Ker^r•ville Puniness Systems, subject to the approval
of the Co~_inty Rttorney's office, and author^ize County Judge to
sign the same.
ORDER NO 26949
APPROVE CONTRACT PETWEEN KERR RNA MCCULLOCH COUNTIES
HOUSING OF INMATES/ SHERIFF'S DEFT.
On this the 26th day of March 2001, upon motion made by
Commissioner- Let z, seconded by Commissioner- Paldwin, the
Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to approve the
contract with McCulloch County to ho~.ise inmates from McCulloch
County in the Kerr County Sail.
ORDER NO 6950
RENEWAL OF LEASE AGREEMENT WITH I'.TC
SHERIFF'S OFFICE
On this the 06th day of March ~4i01, upon motion made by
Commissioner Griffin, seconded by commissioner Williams, the
Co~ar-t unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to approve the
renewal of the Sheriff's Office telephone lease with Y.errville
Telephone Company for- a 5 year- ter-m, subject to approval by
the County Rttor-ney's office, and to author^ize the County
Judge to sign the same.
ORDER NO X6951
RESERVED FRRN.ING APPROVRL
LOWER LEVEL WITH REVISIONS
On this the c6th day of March x:001, upon motion made
by Commissioner- Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner- Griffin, the
Co~_irt unanimously appr^oved by a vote of 4-0-0, to approve the
plan for reserved parking-par•iting at the lower- level and
author^ize the County Ji.idge to make the minor revisions that
are necessary.
ORDER NO 2E952
ADOPT RESOLUTIION IN SUPPORT OF HILL COUNTRY
STRTE REPRESENTITIVE DISTRICT
On this the 2Eth day of March 2Q~Q~1, upon motion made by
Commissioner Aaldwin, seconded by Commissioner Let z, the court
unanimously approved 6y a vote of 4-0-0, to adopt the
resolution in support of a Hill Country State Repr•esentitive
District.
ORDER NO 2E953
APPROVE RESOLUTION OF THE EXTENSION ON SPUR 98
Dn this the ^c6th day of Mar^ch ~@@1, upon motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Lets, the
court approve by a vote of 4-@-@, a resolution in s~.ipport
of a r^esoulution for the extension of Spur^ ~8,