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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Special Session
Thursday, May 9, 2002
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
ACCEPT BIDS FOR 2001 COLONIA FUND GRANT
KERRVILLE SOUTH WASTEWATER PROJECT, RIVER HILL SEWER LINE
PRESENT: H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JGNATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4
ABSENT: FREDERICK L. IIENNEKE, Kexr County Judge

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On Thursday, May 9, 2002, at 9:00 a.m., a special meeting
of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the
Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville,
Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's 9 o'clock, and we
will call to order this Commissioners Court meeting. It's
9 a.m. Thursday, May 9th, ?002, Commissioners Courtroom in
Kerr County. Our consideration agenda is one item, consider
and discuss opening and accepting bids for construction of
Che 2001 Colonia Fund Grant Kerrville South Wastewater
Project, comma, R.iverhill Sewer Line. That's Commissioner
2, Eric Hartzell, and U.G.R.A. But before we get into that,
I was wondering if there's any comments or any -- anything
tv Lalk about amongst the Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My only comment would
be, with regard to this, Commissioner, that this is really a
milestone. It's the first step in what we've been working
on now for two-plus years, to get a sewer project underway,
so I consider it really to be a milestone and a plus, and
I'm kind of anxious to get it moving.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I am too. I'm
with you a tiuudred percent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a -- I'll
piggyback on Ltiat, if I may. As Governor Perry's plan for

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the -- assuming he gets re-elected, is to put a lot more
funding into grants like this. He is funneling, targeting,
whatever term you want to use, a lot of these federal
dollars that come to the state and then kind of get
channeled where the powers-that-be want it, one of them
being the governor, assuming the election goes along with
him, and he is looking at putting a lot more funding into
wastewater infrastructure and water infrastructure in rural
areas.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good news.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Griffin,
any comment?
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This obviously is -- I
hope is the first of many such projects that we have. And I
think this -- a lot of the success in the future of both
going for the grants and for having everybody all signed up
for it will be the success of this project, so we really
ought to get behind this one, make sure it works.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, I'd
like to make one more comment, if you don't mind. I'd like
to pay my -- say my thanks, express my thanks and
appreciation to the folks at Grantworks. I think they do an
excellent joL. They know where the dollars are, they know
how to get the dollars and help the Court or any other
agency looking Lo acquire grant moneys, and they stay on top
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of the things that have to be done. My hat's off to them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: i agree. Well, the
only comment I have, I just wanted to bring to the table
that in the last few days I've had a couple of Kerr County
citizens come in with a concern of the use of the word
"colonia" again. I know that we've brought that to the
table before, and -- and what -- and I have asked for the
definition a couple of times. And at some point, somehow,
we need to really define that. There's some folks out there
that have been designated a colonia, and the way I
understand that, that that's low -- low-income housing is
part of the -- low income is part of the criteria. And
substandard housing? Is that the word? Substandard
housing, and those kinds of things. And one fellow that was
visitiiiy with me last -- a few days ago is far from low
income, far from substandard housing. So there's a feeling
growing out there that when we designate an area as a
colonia, then they're -- number one, it's an embarrassment.
Number two, it possibly is driving the values of their
property down. Now, I don't know if that's real or not, but
it's a cour_ern, and I kind of felt that. So, at some
point -- and maybe now would be a time to really get the
definition uL what a colonia is. Is this a concern of
anybody's other than -- than mine?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think it may
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be a misnomer, in terms of definition. And Dave's out
there, Dave Tucker of Grantworks. Dave, come to the podium.
Maybe you can help us through this piece of the discussion
here.
MR. TUCKER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My understanding of
it is -- is not to be denigrating people. It is to identify
infrastructure deficiencies and problems, and using some
standards that weren't -- weren't put together by this
Court; standards that are put together, I guess, by the
federal government, state government, as to what constitutes
substandard conditions. No sewer, failing septics, perhaps
in many cases less than acceptable centralized water or no
centralized water, and in some cases housing which tends to
be substandard by -- by just observing the condition of the
housing. I suspect there are places where you could have a
substandard and a very standard or better than standard
side'by-side. Not to denigrate people. But, Dave, shed
some more light ~n this, if you will.
MR. TUCKER: One definition of colonia
presently has been 150 miles from the Texas/Mexico border.
They're thinking of expanding that definition to possibly
farther, 'cause there's certainly colonias beyond the
150-mile limit, but that part of the definition should be
overlooked for now. One important aspect to consider about
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colonias is, although individual people in each area may not
meet the income qualifications, a certain percentage,
depending on the region, I believe, has to meet this
percentage for it to be designated as a colonia. And
another thing to consider is, for example, in this
first-time sewer project, those who are going to be hooked
up to the project have to prove their income as being below
a certain level, and only low- to moderate-income
individuals are allowed to get the free hookup. So --
MR. BALLARD: When you talk about the region,
now, are you talking about the designated area, or is a
region beyond that?
MR. TUCKER: How do you mean? Do you mean
the income percentage?
COMMISSIONER BHLDWIN: Mm-hmm.
THE WITNESS: That's based on the income --
average income of ttre county, 1 believe. So if you fall --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said -- you said
that it - that it has to do with folks that live in a --
the region.
MR. TUCKER: That's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that that
designated colonia area?
MR. TUCKER: Yeah, within 150 miles of the
border right now, yeah.

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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So --
MR. TUCKER: If you follow the line of the --
of the kio Grande and then just extend 150 miles beyond
that, an unincorporated, low-income, substandard housing
community just like you described could be described as a
colonic, yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If -- if we designated
the subdivision Canyon Springs as a colonic --
MR. 'PUCKER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and the -- the
subdivision itself is a colonic --
MR. TUCKER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- now, does the
low-income -- does it go outside that? Do you consider that
within a hundred -- the whole 150 miles, or just that one
subdivision?
MR. TUCKER: I'm not really sure, to be
honest, the enact definition of that. The State has decided
what is a colonic and what is not.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What about --
what about -- and I'm -- it's not because someone came to
me; I've been asking this question a]1 along.
MR. TUCKER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about when we
talk about substandard housing?
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MR. TUCKER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, if Commissioner
Griffin and I are driving down the road and he looks over --
coming from Houston, and I'm sure the country club down
there -- he looks over at a house and he says, "Oh, that's
substandard housing." And old Buster here, that's kind of
raised in a tent out here with the bears and the dogs --
MR. TUCKER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and, in my opinion,
that's not substandard housing; that's a pretty nice home.
MK. TIICKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who makes that
determination? Youl
MR. TUCKER: Myself, personally? Not
necessarily. It is the kind of thing, I have to admit, you
know it when you see it. Part of what Grantworks does
includes plaiiiiing, and although I'm not a planer, I've been
with them on planning/mapping trips. And, just for a point
of example, we would drive through a colonia, mapping as we
go, and rate each house based on their condition as we go.
And, yeah, it -- a judgment does come into play in those
circumstances, yes, sir. But when it comes to kind of more
specific needs, describing a colonia, the State prescribes
income limits and proximity to the border. So, it's a
little bit of both.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, following up on
that -- okay, you said the 150-mile area.
MR. TUCKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you -- but the whole
150-mile area is not a colonia?
MR. TUCKER: No, sir, absolutely not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You designate
geographical areas
MR. TUCKER: Right. That's the technical --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- within -- so, you -- I
mean, when they go out and they find an area that meets
certain criteria, --
MR. TUCKER: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- then that geographic
bubble or area is designated as a colonia.
MR. TUCKER: Right. Oh, it doesn't just need
to be within 150 miles of the border. It's not like every
community within the area is a colonia.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's little pockets
within Kerr County.
MR. TUCKER: Oh, yeah.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The threshold is that
the County has to be within -- at least a portion of the
r_ounty, as I understand it, has to be within 150 miles --
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MR. TUCKER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- of the border.
TYiat's the threshold. And then, say, you can have a colonia
within the county.
MR. TUCKER: Technically speaking, right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Commissioner
Baldwin's conr_ern -- I mean -- or not his concern; it's the
property owners' concern -- is very, very valid, that --
MR. TUI;KER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- what it does to
property values. And 1 think any information that
Grantworks has on that -- I mean, my personal -- this is
purely just what I think.
MR. TUCKER: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that it would
have a negative effect on property values to be designated a
colonia. But once -- but if something is done to improve
the infrastructure, then it's going to greatly increase
property values.
MR. TUCKER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's kind of like you
take a dip and then go up higher than you would have gone
without --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- I don't know that
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to be true, but that's logically --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Makes sense.
MR. TUCKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's how I look at it.
But any information you have --
MR. TUCKER: Absolutely. I'll get that to
you as soon as possible, yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What has happened in, you
know, designated colonias where something is done, what
happened before, you know.
MR. TUCKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be helpful to
us to be able to answer questions like that, because I get
them as well.
MR. TUCKER: Right. You know, the areas
we're speaking of have not been designated official colonias
by proclamation or resolution or anything, have they?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're kind of
defined as colonias because they've been eligible for
colonia grant and have been funded for colonia grant. Kind
of indirect evidence --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You do a bubble on a map,
is how we --
MR. TUCKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Another question might
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be is that once you have made improvements based on the fact
that th5s was a designated colonia area, do you lose the
colonia status because you improved it out of the category?
MR. TUCKER: Right. Well, I mean --
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Which is okay.
MR. TUCKER: Oh, yeah. Yeah, sure. That's
also a good point. If anything else, we are hoping to lift
up this area, you know, improve their property values and
conditions of living and things like that. Whenever we
prepare an application, or whenever we Look -- or assist
counties and cities in preparing applications, the area is
surveyed beforehand to see if they are eligible for colonia
grants, and if we survey the area and they're not eligible
because of income limits, then we can't apply for a grant
for them. In this particular case, Kerrville South
certainly was eligible. Certainly. Because in Kerrville
South, 1 believe we had 95 percent low to moderate income.
So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- go ahead.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, see, and that's --
what you're saying there is what causes the -- you're saying
Kerrville South. Kerrville South is, you know, tens of
square miles.
MR.. TUCKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a little pocket

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in Kerrville South that's been designated as a colonia in
Kerrville South.
MR. TUCKER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's why I think we
just need to be very careful on --
MR. TUCKER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you know, what we're
saying.
COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah
MR. TUCKER: Right. Right now, the Wood
Drive and Loyal Valley area that's been surveyed has been
designated as such. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think last week we
probably did designate -- officially designate those areas.
MR. TUCKER: As colonias? By resolution?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the map -- the
mapping workshop that we had identified -- it was areas that
qualified under the rules of the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So this Court didn't
vote to adopt --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have not done that
yet. Now, those questions that I had about the substandard
housing, I want to kind of go across the bridge here to the
income. Une of my concerns with that is -- and, I mean, I
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don't know how you would work the thing. How do you know
that they are low income until -- if -- do you have to wait
until you get into the actual approval or nonapproval before
it's decided that they are low-income?
MR. TUCKER: No. In this particular case, we
went from door to door and asked how many people live in
that home and asked them what their income was, before we
even made the application.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. Of
course, that's the way to do that.
MR. 'PUCKER: Yes, sir, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
MR. TUCKEK: Yes, sir. We wouldn't want to
assist a county or city in getting a grant funded, and then
find out later that the area isn't eligible, so we do that
beforehand.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good.
MR. TUCKER: We've been surveying further
areas. I was just here last week going door to door
surveyinq additional areas to see what the income level is
to see maybe if we can be eligible for another grant.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. TUCKER: I wish I had better terminology
for you on the definition of a colonia and how it's defined,
but let me get that to Lhe Court, and then we can have it in
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time for that special session on the 13th.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All right. I
guess -- is there any other questions or comments from up
here? I would like to give the public an opportunity to
make statements up front and make them now, and then we'll
-- then we'll open up the bids and go on. Okay?
MR. TUCKER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much.
Don't run off too far, now, 'cause it's --
MR. TUCKER: I'll be right here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There may be -- some
questions may be directed to you.
MR. TUCKER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there anyone from
the audience that has concerns or questions in regards to
colonia or -- or the bids or what we're doing as a
Commissioners Court? Yes, sir, would you come forward and
give us your name and address for the record, please?
MR. COSBY: Morning, gentlemen. My name is
Lewis Cosby. I live in Silver Creek Estates at 107 Silver
Creek, and 1 was designated -- or my neighborhood was
designated as a colonia in the Kerrville Daily Times on
Saturday. And this gentleman -- you must be Mr. Hartzell?
MR. TUCKER: I'm Mr. Tucker.
MR. COSBY: Mr. Tucker. Grantworks didn't
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come to my door and ask me what my income was. I made over
$50,000 last year, okay? Neighbor next to me is a
schoolteacher, makes over $30,000 a year. Neighbor on the
other side makes over $40,000 a year. And I -- I just don't
believe that we're a colonia. The newspaper -- I don't know
if it's this court, but of course Mr. Brown from U.G.R.A. is
the one that was quoted in the newspaper. What they've done
essentially is destroyed my property values. They've thrown
them in the toilet by declaring me and my neighborhood a
colonia, and I'm a little upset about that and I'd like to
see something done about it. I'd like to see it changed.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which area?
MR. COSBY: Kerrville -- I'm in Silver Creek
Estates, Mr. Williams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's in the area
between 16 and 173, is it not?
MR. COSBY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On Lower Turtle Creek
Koad?
MR. COSBY: No, it's not on Lower Turtle
Creek Road. Kerrville -- Silver Creek Estates is exactly
4.7 miles south of the river bridge. As you go past River
Hills Boulevard and you go up south on 16 and you make the
long, lazy S-turn, just past that you start uphill, and over
the top of that hill on the right is Silver Creek Estates.
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Silver Creek Estates is composed of site-built homes and
double-wide mobile homes and modular homes. I don't know if
you gentlemen have taken a drive through there, but I think
that if you do, you will find that they're all well-kept.
People take pride in the neighborhood. And to be classified
as a colonia is just not fair.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sir, is that -- and just
so I know where it is, there's a log cabin on the right. Is
the subdivision right past that log cabin?
MR. COSBY: Well, that log cabin is in the
subdivision. That's at the end of Silver Creek Road, which
is the road I live on, which is parallel to the highway.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. I know
where it is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I tell you what we
could do very quickly in that regard. We can ask
Grantworks -- 'cause we have not formulated that report, the
mapping report, as we noted earlier.
MR. COSBY: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can ask Grantworks
to take a look at that. If it's not supposed to be there,
it won't be there; it will be pulled out of there.
MR. COSBY: And I appreciate that, and I'd
appreciate the Court and Grantworks doing that. But I would
also -- if that's the case, I'd like it to be publicly
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stated that we are not a colonia in the newspaper. Okay?
Because the newspaper got ahold of a draft report of your
study. I've got a copy of it. And, based on that, they
said we're a colonia, according to Jim Brown. Jim Brown's
the gentleman from U.G.R.A. who was quoted in this article.
I've already talked to Mr. Brown on Monday, and Mr. Brown
assures me that Silver Creek Estates is not a colonia. Mr.
Brown informed me that he was an expert on colonias, since
he was the city manager of Eagle Pass, I believe, for 15
years. He knows what a colonia is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I misunderstood you.
I thought you said Turtle Creek Estates, but you said Silver
Creek Estates.
MR. COSBY: Silver Creek Estates is also at
the bottom of the list on your study, and, of course -- so
there -- there is nothing planned for over 10 years for
Silver Creek Estates. So, if this doesn't get changed for
10 years, my property values and those of my neighbors are
going to be in the toilet. Now, you gentlemen, I know if
somebody did that to you, would be just raising cain. Am I
right?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Raising what?
MR. COSBY: Cain.
CUMMISSIUNER BALDWIN: Oh.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'd be doing what
you're doing.
MR. COSBY: Yeah, doing what I'm doing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- you know, we
appreciate you coming in and pointing it out. We'll look at
it.
MR. COSBY: I appreciate that. Thank you
very much.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Grantworks' man is
here, and he'll take it back.
MR. COSBY: Well, I'd like to speak with him
after this is over. Thank you very much, gentlemen.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Mr. Cosby.
Anyone else? The -- actually, I guess we need to visit a
little bit. There may be others, so we -- I guess we need
to, each of us -- it's just basically your and my precinct,
isn't it'?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe so.
CUMMISSIUNER BALDWIN: So we need to really
kind of take a closer look and -- and then get with
Grantworks. Okay, let's open some bids. Let's see. We
have three bids. One from D.W. Contractors. Commissioner
Griffin, thank you so much for letting us use your tools.
Want to kind of take a peek at that and pass it around? If
you see a total or a bottom line --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I see one on
Page 1. Do you want me to spout it out here so it goes on
the record?
	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be good,	
sir. Again,	this is D.W. Contractors.	
	COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is for T.D.C.	P.
contract -- w	hatever, 721075, for the River Hill Sanitary	
Sewer Bypass.	Amount of the base bid „ $191,140 and no	
cents. And t	he amount of additive Alternative Number 1 i	s
$110,470 and	no cents.	
	COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Like to pass that	
envelope with	it? Just so we keep them together.	
	COMMISSIONER BALUWIN: And the second one	is
M.B. Bender,	B-e-n-d-e-r, Company, comma, Inc.	
	CUMMISSIUNER WILLIAMS: The amount of the	
base bid for	M.B. Bender Company, Inc., is $260,113.50.	And
the additive	alternative number 1 is 190 -- $154,160 and	no
cents.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the third one is
Compton Enterprises, C-o-m-p-t-o-n. Compton Enterprises.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would be the
bond?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-Yunm.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And the
Compton Enterprises bid is, for the base bid, $221,675. And

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for the additive alternative, $79,680.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any questions from the
Commissioners Court regarding those three bids?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, I think
they should be sent to the engineering company to see if
they meet the specifications of the bid, and we can do that
today by virtue of giving them to Mr. Tucker of Grantworks,
who will take them to the engineering firm in San Antonio,
and they will analyze the bids and be prepared to report
back to the Court on May 13th, I believe. That's a
zecommendation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion to
accept all bids and do that?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a motion to
accept and transfer them to the engineer for study and
making the recommendation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do I hear a second?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a motion and
second to turn these over to Grantworks, that will
hand-carry them to San Antonio. To what engineering firm?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tetra Tech.
MR. TUCKER: Tetra Tech.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there any comments
from the Commissioners Court'? Motion and second. All in
ORDER N0. c7~o4
AF'G'ROVAL l"0 OGEN AND ACCEI-'T BTDS F"OR C0IVSTRUCTION OF TIiC c'I~~Q~1
COLONIA F=UND 0riRNT 1=.ERRVTLLE SOUTH WA5TEWATER F'F20J'EOT
On this the 9th day of t+lay '~OOc, upon +notion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the
Court ~_inanimou~~ly approved by a vote of 4-~~.-0, to open and
accept tl-~e bids and send tl-~em to Tetra Tech, the engineering
firm in San Antonia, witer-e they will analyze the bids and
pr epare to report back to tt~ie Ca~_i~~^t May 13th, Year ~~ktu,
making tt-ie recommeridation.
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