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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Special Session
Monday, June 3, 2002
6:30 p.m.
District Courtroom Number 1
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
O
O
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PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge
H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
ABSENT: LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
June 3, 2002
PAGE
1.1 PUBLIC HEARING
County's 2000 Colonia Comprehensive Plan	
Opening remarks by Eric Hartzell of Grantworks	4
Public comments:	
Vicky Russell	13
Lewis Cosby	14
William Magill	18
Don Davis	20
Mark Wittlinger	25
Arthur Nagel	26
Virginia Weston	29
Edward Moore	34
Cynthia Hurayt	39
Gene Thacker	43
Paul Werner	97
Kathy Schneider	99
Rhonda Mitchell	52
Robert Allard	53
Larry Delgadillo	55
Bill Mentch	56
Travis Smith	58
Ed Sly	59
Commissioners' Comments 62
Adjourned 79
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On Monday, June 3, 2002, at 6:30 p.m., a special meeting
of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in District
Courtroom Number 1, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas,
and the following proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE HENNEKE: Good evening, everyone. It's
6:30 in the evening on Monday, June the 3rd, Year 2002.
We'll call to order this special meeting of the Kerr County
Commissioners Court. The item for consideration on today's
agenda is to have the public hearing on Kerr County's 2000
Colonia Comprehensive Plan and Study. Before we have
Mr. Hartzell give a brief explanation of the program and the
plan, do any of the Commissioners wish to say anything?
Number 1?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nothing at this time,
Judge. Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Two?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing at this time,
Judge.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 3?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll note for the record that
Larry Griffin, Commissioner Number 4, was previously
scheduled to be out of the country and is unavailable this
evening. So, the way we'll begin this evening is we'll ask
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Mr. Hartzell from Grantworks to give a brief explanation of
the program and the study that's being conducted. Then we
will accept public comments. I'll ask you all to hold your
comments to not more than three minutes each, and if at all
possible, to avoid duplication. We would ask that when you
come to the podium to give your comments, that you give us
your name, address, and the -- actually the name of the
subdivision where you live, so that we can more
appropriately take note of the comments that you're
expressing on behalf of you and, I'm certain, many of your
neighbors. So, without any further ado, I'll introduce
Mr. Eric Hartzell from Grantworks, who's going to give us a
brief explanation of the program and the study. Eric?
MR. HARTZELL: Thank you, Judge Henneke and
Commissioners. I'm going to tilt this a little bit, if you
don't mind, so I can see everybody and they can see me. Put
this up here. For the record, I'm Eric Hartzell with
Grantworks from Austin. This study, which has obviously
become very interesting to everyone here, was first talked
about about two years ago by the County -- with the County.
It's a grant that's eligible to -- for counties within
150 miles of the U.S./Mexico border. And the basic purpose
of it is to target -- to figure out what needs are in the
unincorporated areas, in these areas for principally water
and sewer and housing. It also -- it's -- one of its goals
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is to figure out if these needs can be matched up with
federal funds that are available out in the world,
particularly funds provided by the U.S. Department of
Housing and Urban Development, which is called H.U.D. I'll
refer to H.U.D. throughout, and that's who I'm talking about
when I say that. That's who funds those studies.
It's a federal program that's administered by
the State of Texas, and the State gives out the grants to
the various communities that apply. In the year that xerr
County applied, they were the only applicant, so they got
funded. It was a -- a grant program to basically look at
all the unincorporated areas of the county, county-wide, all
the subdivisions,	all the	communities	of any size	in the
county, and that'	s what -	- that's what	the plan --	the first
phase of the plan was. In that first phase, we got
information from the Appraisal District on all of the
subdivisions and other communities, like Center Yoint, in
the county, and were able to map -- get maps created of
those areas, digital maps. And we took that data -- that
digital mapping and went out to each of the areas, and --
and drove through them and did a visual survey of the land
uses in each area, and then of the housing types, looking at
whether there were manufactured homes or stick-built homes,
and then a	visual condition survey.	And, in	the	plan,
there's a	-- a sort of a chart that	explains	what	each of
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the different kinds of housing conditions were and how we
determined those.
Once that was done, we started the task of
pulling together existing utility system data. And, as
y'all all probably know, living here, Kerr County has
numerous water providers. Many of them are -- I think all
of them actually are private, outside of the City of
Kerrville. And some of them involve several areas, like
AquaSource. Others are remaining independent. The second
thing we looked at, of course, was sewer, and there's not
any outside of city of Kerrville at this current time. Once
this information was all sort of pulled together, the
colonia criteria were applied. And the way that's done -- 1
handed out handouts; I know there's a lot of --
AUDIENCE: Define "colonia," please.
MR. HARTZELL: Sure. On your handout, the
definition of colonia -- actually, there's about ten
definitions, but the one that we are interested in here
tonight is H.(l.D.'s definition. That's who is funding the
study. H.U.D.'s definition is any -- I'm sorry. Any
identifiable unincorporated community determined to be a
colonia on the basis of objective criteria, including lack
of potable water, lack of adequate sewage systems, and lack
of decent, safe, sanitary housing, and was in existence
prior to November 28, 1990. The reason for this date is
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that's the date the federal law was put into place, and so
Additionally, as the handout explains,
because this is a H.U.D. program, not only that definition,
but the requirement that at least half of the people living
there are what's considered low to moderate income,
80 percent of the county-wide median family income or below.
That's the -- the population characteristic has to be
present in that area. So, taking that information, we went
out and looked at lots and lots of areas. I think we looked
at maybe 40 different subdivisions in the county, and came
up with a fairly short list of -- typically -- and this is
where I know a lot of the concern has lied. If you look
about halfway down your page, these -- these studies have
been done all over Texas -- well, within 150 miles of the
border. Even some of your neighbors, I guess Medina and
Bandera have done these studies as well.
Typically, they like to cast the net -- I
think someone at the Commissioners Court last week said that
the net was cast very wide and very general, and it was.
And the reason for that is, these definitions allow a lot of
flexibility in what counties identify, which -- what areas
they identify, because most counties want to keep as many
areas eligible for these programs as possible, because we're
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talking about millions of dollars that can be used for water
and sewer and housing improvements. So, typically the net
is -- is cast very wide, to include as many eligible areas
as possible. That's exactly what we did in this case, which
obviously has -- has upset many people.
AUDIENCE: Can I ask you a question?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Excuse me, we've got to
proceed orderly.
AUDIENCE: Okay, go ahead.
MR. HARTZELL: Well, if the Commissioners
will allow me, once I'm finished, when you give your -- your
testimony or your input up here, if you have a direct
question for me then, I can -- I can answer that at the end
of your three minutes, or during your talk or however that
would be.
AUDIENCE: Okay.
MR. HARTZELL: That may be a good way to do
this. Okay, I'm sorry. Let's see. So, the net was cast
wide, and some areas were included that later we found out
were -- the residents weren't very pleased with that. On
the second page of your handout, you'll notice that we have
following public input. That's something else I want to
point out real quick. Planning studies -- I don't know how
familiar people are here with planning, but the way that it
typically works, it's a very -- it's a process that involves
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local officials, it involves professional planners, and
involves the public.
And there were several meetings --
Commissioners talked about these things at several meetings
as well that were public meetings, and the public was -- at
that point was pretty disinterested, I guess, 'cause nothing
controversial had happened. I don't like having public
participation this necessarily negative or upset, but it's
not always a bad thing. I'm glad -- I'm actually glad you
guys are here. I -- this is important for us, because this
was a draft plan, which you're all looking at right now;
everything you have in your hands is a draft. There were --
might have been changes made to the draft you have, and
further changes that we're going to recommend as well, based
on a -- a groundswell, I'd say, of public input. Planning
is primarily a public process. We don't want this -- we
don't want this to be imposed upon anyone, which is why
we're reacting, we hope -- well, to what you want.
As you'll see ou the -- the final -- the
second page, the -- initially, we renamed some of the areas,
because they met -- like, one of the criteria was not having
a sewer system, and might have had the density, but they
weren't particularly poor-quality housing or they had
adequate water systems. And I know that's where many of you
probably reside. And there was no way at that point for us
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to determine the income levels. The only way income levels
can be determined -- and it's kind of a catch-22 -- in the
planning process, we have to guess, because you don't
actually go out and do a survey of the door-to-door
households until you have a project in-hand, where you're
applying for an actual construction grant. At that point,
we go out -- like, today we were in Kerrville South,
door-to-door, talking to people and getting them qualified
for the sewer system that's going into that area near -- off
Ranchero Road. And so that's something that comes farther
down the road, unless the census happens to have data for
your neighborhood. And there are only, I think, two
neighborhoods that there was any data from the Census Bureau
that -- on -- that indicated the low to mod percentages.
't'ypically, the census data is for a very
large part of the county, and so you may have 10 or 12
subdivisions within one census area, and so you can't really
tell what the numbers are for that particular neighborhood.
5o we don't -- we don't use the -- we have to do the
door-to-door survey. So, none of these areas, with a few
exceptions, were -- were surveyed for low to mod. And
because of that, we decided that we made an assumption, in
casting the net too wide, that we shouldn't have made, and
we are recommending to -- to remove several of the areas
that were initially included in the colonia study. And
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also, thanks to some of the input from the Commissioners
Court, found a couple areas we had missed, and those areas
are being added. And that's all spelled out for you here,
and -- on Page 2.
I think that's everything I want to cover
right now. I'm sure y'all still have many comments, and I
know we don't want to be here all night, so I guess we can
open things up.
JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Thank you, Eric.
MR. HARTZELL: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't you just --
MR. HARTZELL: I'll sit right here.
JUDGE HENNEKE: -- sit right here, and if
anyone has a question they'd like to address to you as part
of the comments, that's part of the purpose here, is to
clear up any misinformation and to provide us with the
necessary information that we need in order to -- to do the
best for Kerr County. We're just going to go through these
people that have signed up, and in the order that I've been
given the sheets. If you --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can I ask Eric to clarify
one thing?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, Fawn Run, Quail Run,
Mills -- Miller, and Silver Creek Estates are no longer part
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of the --
MR. HARTZELL: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're being deleted
completely?
MR. HARTZELL: There deleted. They're not
mentioned.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not in the plan?
Or --
MR. HARTZELL: Actually up here on the map as
non-colonia areas. That's a subdivision.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not even as
redesignated, or potentially --
MR. HARTZELL: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're nothing?
MR. HARTZELL: Well, also, part of the
decision process was, as someone also pointed out at the
hearing, why are we in there if we're not getting any
improvements in the next 10 years? And that -- I thought,
well, that makes sense, so they were removed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Again, we're going to
take these in the order that -- which I've been given them.
If anyone who did not sign up wishes to speak, you may do so
at the end of the comments by those who have signed the
participation form. We do not intend for this meeting to be
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exclusive, but inclusive, and we'll be here as long as
any -- as the number of you wish to speak. However, in
light of the time and the number of people who do wish to
speak, we are going to gently insist that you keep your
comments to three minutes or less. We'll begin with Vicky
Russell.
MS. RUSSELL: Okay. At our last meeting,
y'alt kept -- or you added the language --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Excuse me, ma'am. You need
to give us your name and subdivision.
MS. RrJSSELL: My name is Vicky Russell. I
live in Turtle Creek Ranches, okay? And, y'all had said
that these specs were set by the State, and I just want to
say, make sure that we meet the specs. Don't guess, as this
gentleman was saying that they had to guess at the income
levels. The 1990 census figures were used. Those are 12
years out-of-date. We need to use the 2000 census. A
drive-by examination of the housing -- I live behind a
locked gate; you can't see my house. And many of the houses
out in Turtle Creek are the same way. So -- also, I meant
to bring copies of the work on our water and sell -- or
septic system, which should be -- meet any qualifications.
We've had no problems with them since we moved in. It's not
a low quality. We live 15 miles from Kerrville, and we
moved out there because we did not want to be regulated by
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city regulations. I mean, how far out do we have to go?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Lewis Cosby?
MR. COSBY: Good evening, gentlemen. My name
is Lewis Cosby, and I'm a resident of Silver Creek Estates.
Our subdivision is in Precinct 2. The opportunity to speak
to you, our elected officials, afforded us under the
Constitution is one of our most important rights. I am very
pleased that so many people and citizens have come tonight
to speak to you, and to hear from the swell. All of us live
in the unincorporated areas of Kerr County, or perhaps a
better phrase to use would be we live in the country. We
work, raise families, pay taxes. Many of us volunteer as
mentors for children or for different service programs in
the city and county. Our lives are not unlike yours,
gentlemen. We are very busy. We expect our representatives
at county government not -- to not only look out for our
interests, but also to keep us informed as to what they are
doing in our names.
1 think in some cases they do that. I
understand that they cannot do this in all cases. However,
when they do something that affects the market value of our
homes or how we are perceived by our other neighbors in the
county, I believe we have the right to be informed before
action is taken by this Court. There may well have been
articles in the local newspapers concerning a colonia study,
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or that the County was requesting :olonia grants from the
state and federal government, but as for information
concerning the designation of our subdivisions as colonias,
that was first reported on the weekend of the 4th and 5th of
the people gathered here tonight want to know why; that by
the time that this was on the front page, it was too late
for us to -- as citizens, to protest it. Three working days
later, this Court was requesting bids on the Kerrville South
Wastewater Project. Two working days after that, they
accepted bids for the construction to be started.
The Kerrville Daily Times had the information
more than a month before this Court conducted a workshop
with the U.G.R.A. at their headquarters at 1 p.m. in the
afternoon on the 22nd of April. The Times before told me
that the workshop was advertised in their paper, and it was,
on Page 6C, lower left corner of tYieir weekend edition, 20
and 21 April, 2002. How many people did the Court expect
would be able to take off work and attend this so-called
public workshop? Representatives of the Kerrville Daily
Times and the Mountain Sun were there. Two days later, the
Mountain Sun wrote an article about it. They have a small
circulation. Maybe we should all be taking the Mountain
Sun; they print the news. The news -- the Times waited for
11 calendar days, or 10 issues, before they printed the
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front-page article which informed us as citizens that our
subdivisions were designated as colonias. Why? Why were we
not informed earlier? Perhaps we could have organized a
protest. I don't think this Court wanted us to know. I
don't think they wanted the people to represent -- they
represent to throw a monkey wrench into their plans.
This last Saturday, I passed out 150
handbills advertising this meeting, and I asked two
questions of my neighbors. What is the hidden agenda of the
Commissioners Court? Who is their straw man? Let me define
"straw man." According to the American Heritage Dictionary,
straw man is a person who is set up as cover or front man
for a questionable enterprise. I believe the public
designation of our subdivisions as colonia is the straw --
is the straw man. After all, we are not here -- we are here
tonight loudly voicing our indignation to the Court
concerning the damage we feel has been done to our property
market value. Do not all of us feel betrayed by
representatives and this Court? 1 believe we were. What is
the hidden agenda? I say hidden, because this is another
item that we have not been given the whole story by the
local media.
Last Monday in court, you unanimously voted
to spend $6,200 of colonia construction grant money to hire
the law firm of Mc~innis, Lockridge and Kilgore, LLC, of
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Austin to create a wastewater service agreement between the
City of Kerrville and U.G.R.A. for Kerrville South
Wastewater Project. U.G.R.A., after all, has to have
someplace to accept their wastewater. This is where it gets
dangerous for us as taxpayers. These new colonia grants and
other -- and others which the Court has applied for are
insufficient, according to the Court and Grantworks' own
study and testimony, to complete these far-reaching
projects. And by that, I mean outside the Kerrville South
Wastewater Project. It will include not only wastewater,
but also drinking water systems for many of the so-called
colonias. This Court's plan is to turn over all of these
projects to the U.G.R.A. for operation, collection of
service fees, and completion of programs. Where will the
money come from?
Please be mindful of the following facts:
U.G.R.A. is a taxing entity. The U.G.R.A, has bonding
authority. Will the U.G.R.A. request that bonds be sold to
raise money to complete these projects? I think so. Who
pays off these bonds? You, the taxpayers, do with your
property taxes. Can you, as a taxpayer, do anything about
the U.G.R.A.'s raising your property taxes? No, you cannot,
not effectively. They have an appointed board, not elected
like the Commissioners and the County Judge. We can't send
the U.G.R.A. board packing when they do this. Does that
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sound like taxation without representation? You bet it
does. Now you see why it's been hidden.
I, for one, will not forget the way in which
this Court has acted. I hope the citizens assembled here
will not forget come election time what these men have done
in our names. I can only assume that they will stand up and
say, "we have solved the Kerrville South wastewater problem.
How smart we are." I say, "But at what expense to our
liberty?" I am not opposed, personally -- and I mean this
sincerely, people -- to correcting the problems in Kerrville
South. I really am not opposed to that. But, as a
taxpayer, i want to have a say in how it is accomplished,
since I will be paying for it with my tax money. Do they
not trust the people? I'm speaking of the Court now. I
don't tkiink so. Don't they have the courage to stand up and
do the things in the light of the day? I will leave that
answer to Lhe people in Kerr County. Thank you, sir,
gentlemen. Appreciate it.
(Applause.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: William Magill.
MR. MAGILL: William Magill, Silver Creek
Estates. Thank you for hearing us. I'd just like to concur
with Mr. Cosby. I think the agenda is all on you. I think
you're trying to get out of a situation where you have any
kind of responsibility to the voters; that you're trying to
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set up an organization between you and the people so that we
have no recourse to come back if they increase rates. And I
just think if you would do this properly and do it the way
that you're supposed to, and let the people vote on it, you
might have come out a lot better. Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm going to exercise a
little discretion here and point out to everybody that no
one is required to participate in any -- in the Kerrville
South Wastewater Project. It is totally voluntary on the
part of the homeowners. Now, the project, the way it's
created, will pay for 100 percent of the costs of taking a
homeowner from a septic system to a central wastewater
treatment system. No one has to participate. And I think
that's important, that no one here has the idea of setting
up an urganization that you have to belong to, that you have
to contribute to. If your system is fine and there's no
problem with your system, you don't want to be hooked up to
the central wastewater treatment, that's entirely up to you.
There's no compulsion -- the County does not have the
authority to require you to hook up. U.G.R.A. does not have
the authority Lo require you to hook up. The project we've
undergone -- undertaken in Kerrville South is an entirely
voluntary program on the part of the homeowners.
AUDIENCE: Is the water included also?
JUDGE HENNEKE: There's no water in the
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pLOject in Kerrville South. It's strictly wastewater.
AUDIENCE: But even if we don't --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Excuse me, sir. We can't --
we can't colloquy like this. When your turn comes, I'll be
happy to answer your question. Don Davis.
MR. DAMS: My name is Don Davis. I live at
12 -- I don't even know where I live.
(Laughter.)
MR. DAMS: 1524 Upper Turtle Creek, on 1273.
I didn't really know that I lived in an estate. I guess
it's Turtle Creek Ranch Estates. When I read that all of
this included Molina Drive, I was reminded that Mr. Molina
dug his own well and his own septic by hand, and lived to
the ripe old age of 77. We have an adequate water supply.
r personally leave just built a home and have spent thousands
of dollars on septics and pumps and trying to be in
regulation witki U.G.R.A. I'm a little bit dismayed that
H.U.D. would call these areas colonias. Gentlemen, 7 can
take you to Mexico and 1 can show you a colonic, and there's
no place on 1273 that looks like anything close to what that
is down there. Acid I -- I am greatly insulted that they
would use this terminology. But I do salute H.U.D., because
I have friends that have acquired homes, and I think that's
a great thing that they've done, to build homes for people
who really need those things.
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We are not a densely developed community,
another statement I wanted to make. And forming a new
public water supply corporation or a water district, to me,
is just another boondoggle. And it seems that we have spent
about eight years now trying to get out of the big
government problems that we've had, and it looks like that
this is just going to put us right back into the same
situation. Ownership by U.G.R.A., I think, would be a big
mistake, 'cause as the gentleman stated, we already know
what -- what their agenda is. And extension and ownership
by private water supply, I'm sure there are some people that
already have their mouths salivating, wanting to get in on
that one. I don't know what W C.I.D. is, that used to be in
operation. But regulations on the present water wells and
pumps, to me, are essential, but I think the -- the people
really are kind of tired of having taxation without
representation. I suggest there are two low-water crossings
on 1273 that, when it rains pretty good, there's about five
foot of water coming down those creeks, and that we've tried
to get those bridges raised. I think that -- that probably
you could find a way to trap that water and then you could
sell it to the colonia of the City of Kerrville.
(Laughter and applause.)
MR. DAMS: And when it does rain like that,
these poor and destitute people of Turtle creek can't get
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out to go to work so they won't be poor and destitute, and
take their children to school so they won't be ignorant and
live like they are right now.
(Laughter and applause.)
MR. DAMS: I just find it absurd that anyone
with half a brain cell would -- would think that there is a
corporation -- I'll tell you what I would like for them to
do. If they really want to spend that money and give it
away, I'll take a check from them anytime they want to give
it to me, and I'll do my own thing and I won't worry about
it.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
(Applause.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mark Wittlinger.
MR. HARTZELL: Judge Henneke, may 1 speak
real quick on Turtle Creek?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, you may.
MR. HARTZELL: To answer one of the other
changes that actually has been made on 't'urtle Creek, and
this is -- again, we went and drove it again today. We
drove down Molina and up Keith Boulevard -- is that right?
Okay. And, Keith Boulevard South, I believe, the -- the
area that meets the technical definition. Now, that's a big
boo, I guess, but it -- including it or not including it, if
you don't want it in there -- and it sounds like the ones
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who are here from that neighborhood don't want it in
there -- then Commissioners can tell us to take it out, and
it will be out. That's fine. Okay. Oh, and -- yeah, some
people -- some people were here last week. Already, we've
-- there was a complaint, I believe, based on the fact I
think the map showed the entire subdivision included, and
that isn't -- that was an error. That shouldn't have been
the -- the designated area for assistance. Only the area on
Molina, and then on Upper Turtle Creek as you round the
corner, on the opposite side of the creek from Molina.
AUDIENCE: Garner Road.
MR. HARTZELL: Is that the name?
AUDIENCE: Garner Road is in as bad a shape
as y'all claim that Molina is.
MR. HARTZELL: Okay. Like, around the corner
there, and then if you go up Keith, there's a few mobile
homes on the -- on both sides of the street there, and
someone mentioned those might be hunting -- hunting lodges.
We can't tell from driving by. But, again, it was a
suggestion; it doesn't have to be followed. Nothing that's
going to happen in any of these plans is not going to happen
if people in the communities don't support them. The
County's not going to go forward, or U.G.R.A. or anybody
else. They don't have -- have the license, and they
certainly can't withstand the political heat of going
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forward with anything that the public does -- adamantly
opposes, which is clear in this case, that at least people
here representing Turtle Creek don't want a water system to
be considered ever, or in the planning period for Molina.
Commissioners can tell us kill it; we'll kill it. It's
not -- it's not a hard and fast thing.
(Several people speaking at once.)
MR. HARTZELL: Okay? They'll give us their
instructions. We'll do what you want.
AUDIENCE: Are you going to kill it?
JUDGE HENNEKE: We're not posted to take any
action tonight. We are listening very hard.
MR. HARTZELL: Oh, one other thing. The 1990
census issue, someone brought that up as well.
AUDIENCE: Next election, we'll --
MR. HARTZELL: The 1990 census, the reason
that those figures are used is that the 2000 census,
although it's been completed, the low to mod income figures
that -- that H.U.D. uses for calculating its program
beneficiaries, the people who benefit from its programs,
have not been done, and they won't be done till next year.
So, that's why we're using old data; we don't have a choice.
But you're right, ten years is a long time, and things have
changed. That's the best data we had.
MR. DAMS: Will you send us our check next
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year?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Mark Wittlinger.
MR. WITTLINGER: Thanks for serving, and
thanks for listening to us on this special session. I'm
mark Wittlinger, owner of property at 1520 Upper Turtle
Creek. The criteria that's put forth in that H.U.D.
definition I don't think applies. I think everybody in here
would agree with that. The issue of potable water, decent
safe housing, and adequate sewage or septic, I think they're
all okay. I think everybody feels that way. If they
didn't, they'd fix it. So I don't --
AUDIENCE: Mark -- we can't hear you, Mark.
MR. WITTLINGER: Is this better?
AUDIENCE: Yes.
MR. WITTLINGER: I am sorry. Anyway, the
criteria I don't think applies to anybody. I think if it
did, they would have fixed it by now. The -- I think if
areas do need it, apply it. You know, go for the grant.
But I don't think that Turtle Creek needs it. Another issue
is, to do this, somebody's going to have to lose some land
to eminent domain. I'm not sure who's going to want to give
up their land. I don't think anybody wants to give up any
of their land at this point. The issue of nonmandatory
participation could change in the future, depending upon
laws and legislation and whatnot. But, anyway, I just want
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to say I'm opposed to it, and appreciate you listening.
Thanks.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. Arthur
Nagel?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My good friend Arthur
Nagel.
AUDIENCE: He said not any more.
MR. NAGEL: I'm in trouble before I even get
here.
(Laughter.)
MR. NAGEL: My name is Arthur Nagel,
N-a-g-e-l. I live in the city of -- the beautiful
Kerrville.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Arthur, pull the mic
a little closer to you.
MR. NAGEL: I have been in communication with
the Rural Community Affairs organization in Austin, and we
are discussing some issues that need to be brought before
the Legislature in 2003. As a result of that, material that
I have provided to Rural Community Affairs is providing
copies to Senator Wentworth and to Representative
Hilderbran. One thing that I am very opposed to, gentlemen,
is the designation of colonias existing for a depth of 150
miles from the Texas international border. That brings us
into an area qualifying for r_olonias money. We do need
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money for water, sewage, roads, but we do not need it under
the heading of having any colonias. We do not have any
colonias. The criteria that this corporation used is a
H.U.D. criteria for defining a colonia. The definition for
a colonia in Texas law is in Government Code 2700, passed by
Senate Bill 1509 in 1995.
At that time, some water representatives did
advocate the 150-mile stretch. No one opposed it at that
time. Everybody wanted some of that money. colonias, as
this corporation has pictured some of our 30- and
35-year-old subdivisions who were created -- that were
created prior to the creation of subdivision rules for this
county, in no way mimic a single colonia on the
international border of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and
California. colonias, when created 20 years ago by
distrusting and distasteful county officials and landowners,
existed by selling a third of an acre, a half of an acre, on
a contract of sale. No road was built in what had, in the
past, been a cotton field. No water system was created. No
sewage collection system was designed, nor were these people
encouraged or financed in order to have an approved on-site
sewage treatment facility.
Our people all have a water connection. Our
people all have an on-site sewage collection facility. This
company acknowledges they did a windshield inspection of the
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areas that people in this county told them where to go to
look for colonias. I want the record to show that I
income, by the way they live. And this count -- this
corporation has the audacity to tell this county over the
next 10 years, you go out there and you pick up those
broken-down, abandoned automobiles and dispose of them.
Where do we do that in fine Kerr County'?
This corporation tells us that the housing
that they saw during their tours of these areas that
appeared to be deteriorated, we should tell Grandmother
Juanita Gonzales to move out, and we're going to tear your
house down and we're going to put a new one there over the
next 10 years, with federal dollars. What are we going to
do with Grandmother Juanita Gonzales while all that fancy
stuff is going on? Do we have public housing? No. Do we
have waste disposal in Kerr County serving anybody,
anywhere, anytime, that can take abandoned automobiles to
get rid of them? They didn't tell us where to find these
houses that are deLerioraLed, and they didn't tell us where
to find the abandoned automobiles and other things, so I
don't know what you goL LoL your money paid.
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But I'm saying, in all probability, at the
state level, there's going to be some talk about reducing
the width of the colonias area to something drastically
smaller than 150 miles, so that the moneys needed for roads
and for water systems and waste collection systems will be
obtained under other names that the politicians will come
forth with instead of the word colonias, and reserve the
word colonias to truly fit our international border area.
You bet this county and other counties needs money for --
this far inland needs money for roads and for water and for
sewage. We just have to get it under another name, such as
underdeveloped communities, something like that. Reserve
the word colonias for only that which started the issue,
which was, as the gentleman has pointed out, from Mexico, on
the Mexican/Texas border. And I'm here to simply say,
Kerrville has -- Kerr County has no colonias. We -- under
the distressed economic conditions specified in the Water
Code, everybody out there has a water connection. Everybody
has a sewage treatment facility. The only thing that goes
for us is that we're 150 miles from the Rio Grande River.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Mr. Nagel.
(Applause.)
DODGE HENNEKE: Virginia Weston?
MS. WESTON: I'm not going to say much more
about colonias, because I believe the previous speaker has
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held that subject adequately. I want to get something
clear, Mr. Hartzell.
MR. HARTZELL: Sure.
MS. WESTON: I believe that what we're
discussing tonight is really just the first step. Your
company is involved in -- in getting application for a grant
for the County for about $75,000 to do mapping and planning?
MR. HARTZELL: Right, that's what this study
is.
MS. WESTON: Right, okay. So -- and then if
they do the mapping and the planning, that would be at no
cost to the County if they get the grant, correct?
MR. HARTZELL: Yeah. The planning -- the
planning grant is a 100 percent grant to the County.
MS. WESTON: Okay. So they would do the
mapping and the planning, and at that point, U.G.R.A. would
step in, get a bond, and then --
MR. HARTZELL: No.
MS. WESTUN: -- all the stuff would start
getting torn up --
MR. HARTZELL: NO.
MS. WESTON: -- starting to put pipes in?
MR. HARTZELL: Well, actually, right now --
right now, what's happening with the first project in
Kerrville South, U.G.R.A. -- U.G.R.A. is putting in some
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money for engineering, and the County is putting in no money
right now. U.G.R.A. didn't pass bonds to do that. I think
they're using -- I'm not sure what they're using; general
revenue of some sort, I don't know. That money, plus the
grant money, is being used to construct -- to pay for
engineering and the construction costs in Kerrville South.
MS. WESTON: Okay. I forgot to identify
myself. Virginia Weston, Turtle Creek Ranches. That's why
I started talking about torn up roads. Okay. So, we're
still at -- at the baby pace, so -- and that's why
Grantworks comes in --
MR. HARTZELL: Right. The reason -- again,
the reason the plan -- that anyone ever wants to have a plan
is, no one has a good idea all in one place of what's even
out there, and so, again, we cast the net kind of wide to
get as much as we could of -- a picture of what the rural
communities looked like.
MS. WESTON: Right.
MR. HARTZELL: And in doing so, obviously,
the stigma attached with colonia, it upset people. And --
and we are --
MS. WESTON:
not use that in south Texas.
MR. HARTZELL:
MS. WESTON:
Yeah, very much so. We should
In -- you mean Kerr County?
No, you shouldn't use that in
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south Texas.
MR.	HARTZELL:	I'	m sorry?
MS.	WESTON:	You	shouldn't use this term in
south Texas.
(Applause.)
MS. WESTON:
Shouldn't use the term in south
Texas.
MR. HARTZELL: What term? Colonia?
MS. WESTON: Colonia. You should not use
that term in south Texas.
MR. HARTZELL: Why?
MS. WESTON: It's racist.
MR. HARTZELL: Do you think so?
MS. WESTON: It's -- you should not use that
term. We cannot use that term; it's wronq.
MR. HARTZELL: The counties in Texas apply
for these funds all the time.
DODGE HENNEKE: Can we -- let's go ahead with
the public comments.
MS. WESTON: I simply wanted to get that -- I
wanted to understand, 'cause I was on the Internet and just
dug up an article from the Kerrville Daily Times two years
ago, and figured out who Mr. Hartzell was and what was going
on here with the $75,000. Another question for
Mr. Hartzell. If this grant goes through, you're not going
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to come to my door and ask me what my income is, are you?
MR. HARTZELL: If -- if a grant -- if Turtle
Creek -- I don't know -- you live in Turtle Creek? Let's
say --
MS.	WESTON:	Dingly View.	
MR.	HARTZELL:	Dingly View, all right.	Okay.
Let's say in five years --
MS. WESTON: Uh-huh.
MR. HARTZELL: -- if Dingly View -- say they
wanted to get together and set up a water system and put
water in on Dingly View, and you wanted to get a grant to do
that. Then, yes, we would, but that would be at your
instigation.
MS. WESTON: So we will have a choice?
MR. HARTZELL: You will have a choice.
MS. WESTON: Okay. Our ultimate goal here --
and I wanted to address this to y'all, and also to my
neighbors. Our ultimate goal, and we all want this, is safe
water. I don't want to drink water that someone has also
flushed their toilet in. And I also want my neighbors to
know, we own -- it may not be the people in this room,
because we're concerned, and the man that put that brightly
yellow -- that bright yellow piece of paper in my mailbox is
not one of these people, but some of our neighbors are not
good stewards of the environment. I'm not a tree-hugger,
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but I'm concerned about the water that I drink, and I'm
concerned about the water that my neighbors drink. And
these men are, too. U.G.R.A. is not our enemy, and these
men aren't our enemy. But, gentlemen, we live out there
because we cherish our independence, so we all need to try
to figure out some way to make sure that we're not
endangering our health, that we aren't screwing our
neighbors, but that our -- that we're taking care of each
other, and that we're helping these men figure out a way to
do it as well. Because we know that we're not -- not
everybody out there is -- is spending the money that it
takes to put in a good system, We know that everybody out
there isn't maintaining their systems properly. Not
everybody cares like -- like all of us in this room do, and
not like all the guys here who are taking all our heat, so
we also have got to keep that in mind. But I don't want you
tearing up my roads, either, and I like my well.
(Laughter.}
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
MS. WESTON: Thank you very much.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Edward Moore?
MR. MOORE: If I may, please?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
(Handed document to Commissioners and Judge.)
MR. MOORE: I'm Edward Moore. 1 live at 105
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Molina Road, Upper Turtle Creek Estates, Rancho Oaks,
whatever you want to call it. It's a nice place, wonderful
place. This gentleman said he drove through today. He
better clear his windows up. If he drove down Molina, he
didn't find anything there that was in ill repair that I can
think of. I'll tell you right now that three of those
properties on that road have changed in the last year.
Everyone that has moved in there has made other changes,
improvements. Two of us drilled wells; both of them drilled
to 540 feet. We're pumping from about 480. The cost was
$15,000-plus each. And, let me tell you something; we did
this because we want the quality of life. We got our
permits, we went through Headwaters, we went through
O.G.R.A.
I want to tell you a little something abuut
my attitude toward U.G.R.A., gentlemen. Headwaters
recommended, because I live in Upper Turtle Creek, I had to
go get a floodplain. They wanted to be sure this well
wouldn't be in the 100-year floodplain. Well, 1 told Lkiem,
"Look at my survey; I've got it right here." "Oh, no. Go
see them." The gentleman couldn't tell me what my
floodplain was on my plat. They couldn't find my plat. Not
only that, whenever we made the appointment, he was late.
Competence question. But he, as a courtesy, signed off. He
said, "Well, it looks like you're okay," satisfying
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Headwaters. I got the well drilled, being told I need a
water sample test. I went down to the lady at the front
desk. I said, "I need everything to get a new well tested."
"Okay, that will cost you so much dollars, and here you go."
I went down to get the results of the test.
They said, "Well, you needed another model." Now, you know,
I drill wells all the time. You think I want to have people
like that handling anything on my site pertaining to water?
When they came out and they checked my septics when I bought
the property in February of 2001, the holes were open. He
said, "That's a leaker." The other hole -- there's two on
my property, by the way. The other one, "Oh, that's fine."
Now, how does that test -- how's that a testt I am sorry, I
don't believe that that's a test. But they got $65 for each
hole. Okay. I -- am I getting serviced by U.G.R.A.?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Sir, I'm sorry, we're here to
talk about the colonias.
MR. MOORE: I am telling you what I don't
want --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Not U.G.R.A. or Headwaters.
MR. MOORE: I understand. I'm going Lo tel]
you. But, here's the deal. If this goes -- and I
appreciate you. I do. If this goes, they have rights over
us that they shouldn't have in the future, and I don't want
them to have those rights. My experience with them today is
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poor. Another little thing; maybe AquaSource would buy the
local water supply. Do -- do you think our people up here
in Molina Road in Upper Turtle Creek Estates, all these
wonderful people want to go through what Ingram's going
through with that very company right now? Do you think we
want to get into that?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Hope not.
MR. MOORE: Well, we don't -- thank yau, sir.
We agree. Now, those of us that live on the creek, right on
it -- I live across the creek, but most of the people live
right on the creek. They Have a perfect water supply from
the creek. They don't have to drill wells. Do you think
that they need somebody to pipe them water? They've got
water. I've got water. But if you regulate -- send it out
there, they're going to tell us, "You can only have so much,
and this is the rate you're going to pay. You're going to
pay it monthly." Now, I gave you these papers because some
of the -- in some of those things, they mention the year
2000. The gentleman here has answered some of that
question. I don't like the idea that just because a study
needs to be made, that we're going to go back to lyyU
information, either. I don't think that's a good study; I
think it's flawed.
Whenever they said the Upper Turtle Creek,
Molina Road and that area fits into parameters, there's a
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water thing in there that says no water is -- is one, and
you'll find out that -- that we came up with a number of
four. If you'll look at Page 23, you'll see where it says
zero is with no major needs. One, needs line replacement;
two, unserved homes or supply problems. Well, when you're
going back here, this other page, which would have been Page
44, when they got the water, they give us a three. 1 don't
see a three on that other thing. And that one number alone,
when they put a three there instead of a two, that would
throw Turtle Creek Ranches up into the number two bracket.
To me, it should be on the bottom, plain and simple. Now,
am I reading my numbers wrong? If I am, I stand to be
corrected. But, here again, I feel this study that is
proposed to you gentlemen for your consideration to help us
is flawed. I don't believe it's well.
Now, I think Z ought to tell you, too, that I
didn't move out there by accident. I moved out there with
my dad and stepmother in a mobile home. My wife and I live
cattle barn. It's a 2-bedroom, 2-bath. It's a beautiful
thing. I'm improving the property all around. My neighbors
just down the street, they moved in and they're improving
their property. Give us another ten years; I'll show you
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what a colonia didn't look like, believe me. We have a nice
place on Molina Road. The whole area through there, the
people on Upper Turtle Creek Road have nice homes. I don't
agree with this at all. I ask you gentlemen to consider
this to be a null and void thing. Don't do us any favors.
1t wouldn't be if you did it. Thank you very much,
gentlemen. I appreciate your time.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. Cynthia
Hurayt.
MS. HURAYT: Hi. Okay, I was here last week,
and I went over some of the criteria that showed that
including Turtle Creek Ranches in this colonia thing was
tantamount to fraud, because we didn't meet any of the
criteria. Mr. Hartzell was kind enough to narrow it down
some, so that it may meet the criteria for the density
requirement now. I still live up that road he was talking
about, up Keith Boulevard, up that-away, and I can tell you,
once you get across from Molina, you're headed into 10-acre
tracts. Everyone on Molina, everyone on the creek has their
own well. They have their own septic. As Judge Henneke
said, no one has to hook up. when you go into an area of
nice homes where everybody has their own well, their own
septic, unless -- we don't have to hook up u~iless at some
point we're incorporated, and then it's beyond our control.
So, down the road someday, we may be forced to hook up to
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this.
And I just don't see how he could go into an
area like Molina, Turtle Creek, on the creek, up Keith
Boulevard, and say that we are right after Wood Creek on
this list of need. I -- I imagine everybody down there is
familiar with Wood Creek. So, he's narrowed it down. I
can't disprove it on the basis of density any more; however,
7 think he needs to take a hard look at the income level in
that area. There's many, many professionals out there
that -- the population has changed dramatically in the six
years I've been there, and homes are going up all the time,
and they're nice homes and they're professionals living out
there. He says he did a drive-by survey to determine
substandard housing. On my road alone, five of the eight
homes you can't even see.
Regarding central water and sewer, like I
said, we all have our own, and they're fine. Now, he gets
down to the -- this whole thing of U.G,R.A. Even
Mr. Hartzell said these colonia funds are not going to be
enough to fund the entire project. And, once again, it
looks like we're going to be the people that are going to go
ahead and pay for this, whether we need it or not. We might
be paying for other people's or not, but 2 just strongly
suspect that they have included a lot of these subdivisions
in order to pad their data to get more funding.
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Now, last time I guess Mr. Cosby was
representing Silver Creek Estates, and they did him a favor
by demoting it from a colonia to a potentially eligible
area, P.E.A. After some protest, they changed a few of
these subdivisions to P.E.A. Now, I got the minutes to that
meeting, and in the minutes, y'all admit that this is just
something he came up with and semantics, I believe you said
it was, and feel-good words. And, when it -- he was asked
if P.E.A. could be used in all the funding paperwork, he
said, and I quote, "It would be kind of hard for us to get
away with it. What we could possibly do is, what we turn in
to the State for their review could use that terminology
that they require" -- the State -- "and then we could come
back later and modify the language in the County's plan."
Your P.E.A. is a meaningless term that does not -- it
doesn't do anything for us. And I submit to you now that
any subdivision that does not now meet the criteria, all of
the criteria, the H.U.D. criteria, should be removed
entirely from the list of colonial, and that includes Turtle
Creek Ranches.
(Applause.)
MS. HURAYT: The main -- the only two points
I want to make, Grantworks, they're just hired to do their
job. They get paid to get funding for these projects, and
they're doing it the best way they know how. It might not
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be what we think is a good way. It's my considered opinion
that they have been deliberately loose and subjective, not
"objective," like it says in the H.U.D. definition. They've
been subjective in their compilation of data, padding it by
included areas that absolutely fail to meet the criteria,
and this is what I consider fraudulent. And when my
property values start to suffer as a result of this, then
I'm going to do all I can to make sure everybody knows about
what I think is fraud.
The second thing is that our elected county
officials seem intent on making U.G.R.A., a river authority
with taxing authority and zero accountability to taxpayers,
into a major utility company. Does anybody here really want
their utility fees determined and assessed by a politically
appointed entity? I think not. Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
(Applause.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we're a little
more than halfway through the people that have signed up to
comment, so I'd like to suggest we take a 10-minute break
and reconvene at a quarter to 8:00.
(Recess taken from 7:35 p.m. to 7:95 p.m.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, folks. If we could
settle down, we could reconvene and allow the rest of the
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people that are signed up to have their opportunity to -- to
give us their opinions and comments on this issue. The next
individual that signed up to speak is Gene Thacker.
MR. THACKER: Good evening. My name is Gene
Thacker. I live on Keith Boulevard in Turtle Creek Estates.
Most of what I thought and think has been expressed here
this evening. I moved out there because I want to be out
there. It wasn't by mistake. But -- excuse me -- I've
tried to understand this, and I have some questions about
the numbers. Can I address them?
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, you may, sir.
MR. THACKER: Okay. If this sheet -- this is
the profile of Turtle Creek Ranches. Does this mean that
you only found 74 units?
AUDIENCE: Gene, what page is that?
MR. THACKER: It's the Profile 10.
AUDIENCE: Ten.
MR. THACKER: Turtle Creek.
MR. HARTZELL: Yeah. What this means --
okay.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Eric, would you gentlemen
walk back to the podium so everyone can hear, please?
MR. HARTZELL: Okay. Hang on one sec; I'm
sorry. What Mr. Thacker is asking me is on the -- about
halfway down on the first page of the Profile 10, there's a
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housing section, and it says number of units, 74. He's
asking me if that's the number of units we found. That's
the number of units that we found in the -- what -- when we
do a large subdivision like Turtle Creek, we don't only do
the areas where there are units close together in some
semblance or form. We drove clear out all the roads; they
go out for miles and miles, as you all know, up and down the
hills. And we didn't go beyond -- there's a street that
goes east and west.
MR. THACKER: Yes.
MR. HARTZELL: We didn't go past that street.
So these houses, I think, represent the houses south of that
point.
MR. THACKER: Okay. My next question, then,
out of these 74 units in this 1,525-acre subdivision, 74
units, you found 39 that needed rehabilitation or
reconstruction. If I read this right, it shows that the
average improvement out there is $15,300. Is that correct?
Average property valuation?
MR. HARTZELL: This looks low. Hang on one
second; I've got my data right here. Hang on, I'm sorry.
MR. THACKER: Now, I'm not trying to be
difficult, but if the average price is -- or value of the
improvement is $15,000 --
MR. HARTZELL: Okay, that's --
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MR. THACKER:
MR. HARTZELL:
We have -- that is incorrect.
(Laughter.)
MR. HARTZELL:
You've got 39 --
That probably is incorrect.
Everyone makes -- it should be
$31,999 average value.
MR. THACKER: Okay.
MR. HARTZELL: Does that make more sense?
MR. THACKER: Makes a little more sense,
because you're going to spend just right at $900,000 on 39
homes, and by the time you improve them, they'd be more --
worth more than what they are today.
MR. HARTZELL: Yeah. When they -- a lot of
times this is referring to replacing a mobile home with a
stick-built house, which is the way --
MR. THACKER: Why?
MR. HARTZELL: -- the programs work. Federal
programs for housing require that when you replace a
low-income person's house -- that's a mobile home --
MR. THACKER: Uh-huh.
MR. HARTZELL: -- you put in a stick-built
house, or you can put in a manufactured home.
MR. THACKER: Okay. Because I'm going to
say, in today's environment, one out of every four new homes
built today is a manufactured home.
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MR. HARTZELL: That's correct, yes. That's
why --
MR. THACKER: Whether there's enough lumber
in it or not.
MR. HARTZELL: H.U.D. tends -- actually, the
State tends to prefer stick-built, but we do manufactured
homes as well, because that is exactly right; one out of
four -- and that is an incorrect figure. I apologize.
MR. THACKER: Well, there's others throughout
here. I mean --
MR. HARTZELL: Okay.
MR. THACKER: -- you say you drove down and
you saw 79 homes
MR.
MR.
wife and I started
Boulevard. By the
the most direct ro
about four or five
math.
HARTZELL: That's right.
THACKER: Okay. Sir., seven years ago, my
counting mailboxes. We live on Keith
time we got to our house, this -- just
ste, we counted 90 mailboxes, and that's
years ago. I have a problem with the
MR. HARTZELL: Okay.
MR. THACKER: Not only with the concept, with
the math.
MR. HARTZELL: We have maps. And -- would
you like me to pull it out? Maybe we can do this later,
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because I think we're taking up time.
MR. THACKER: I'm taking up time. I don't
want to be redundant. I feel like a lot of those folks out
here. I'm not sure which president it was that said, "He
who governs least governs best." Stay out of my back yard;
that's what I feel about government. And I'm glad you
showed that, 'cause I was really concerned.
MR. HARTZELL: Yeah, I've got -- that's a
typographical error. I think you have Hill River as number
-- actually, it looks like --
(Several people in the audience talking at
once.)
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. THACKER: Thanks.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. Paul Werner.
MR. WERNER: This project sneaked up on me.
I learned about it yesterday.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Excuse me, sir. We need your
name and subdivision, if you would, please.
MR. WERNER: Say again?
JUDGE HENNEKE: We need your name and
subdivision.
MR. WERNER: Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Paul
Werner. I live at 110 Turtle Creek View. And the project
did sneak up on me, and so I have insufficient knowledge to
make too many comments, but I -- to me, at least, with the
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County of Kerr having no colonias, starting up one -- or
several now that don't seem to quite reach the criterion, I
cash, which they don't really have. We'd be better off
taking care of the people down in Webb and Hidalgo and E1
Paso Counties, where they really need such improvements.
And it was pointed out that -- forcefully, as a matter of
fact, that	nobody had to	sign	up for this south --	south
Kerrville	sewer project.	But	President Reagan onc	e said
that once	you get in bed	with	government, you can	expect
more than a good night's sleep.
(Laughter and applause.)
MR. WERNER: Everyone here knows that's a
or three years and they say, "Well, we've just increased our
criteria for sewer systems. Yours don't qualify, so you
sign up or else." Now, I know that's going to happen, and
so does everyone else here. And there's a lot of questions
that I have that I know you can't answer, like the sales
process for all these lots that are going to be vacant, and
how the people who buy them are going to be treated by their
sellers and everyone else. But I -- that's not a thing I
can address now. I just know a great many things from 15
years of subdivision regulation. Thank you, gentlemen.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir.
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(Applause.)
JDDGE HENNEKE: Kathy Schneider.
MS. SCHNEIDER: My name is Kathy Schneider,
and I live on Fawn Run, which is outside the city limits of
Kerrville. There's not much else I can say that I wouldn't
be reiterating, except that I am pleased that we've been
upgraded to P.E.A. However, I would prefer to be completely
off the list. We only bought our house 15 months ago.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Which was your subdivision,
ma'am?
MS. SCHNEIDER: It's Fawn Run.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Fawn Run, okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Off Ranchero Road.
MS. SCHNEIDER: We don't -- you know, we had
to go through all of the appraisals and things like --
things like that for a V.A. loan, you know, and they're
strict on all those things. The only -- the only question
that I have is, if -- if you're going to give people septic
systems or -- or sewage systems, because they have septic
systems, why don't you go out and request -- okay, you know,
"We want to know who wants this," before saying, you know,
"We're going to do this, and you don't have to participate."
Why didn't you ask them how many people want it before you
actually, you know, do this and pay money for a survey?
It's not fair to us to be listed as a colonia, or even if
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we're upgraded, so you can get money for another area of
town. We're not even on your list, and we're never on your
You know, I'm more than happy to open my back
yard, let you come in with your pole and check my -- you
know, put it down in my system and see, you know, that it's
been pumped. And several in the neighborhood, you know,
they keep them maintained, and I'm sure that everybody else
does as well. But, you know, that's why I want to know, why
-- why didn't you come out -- my husband works for the City
of Kerrville. Now, without my income, yeah, we'd meet that
criteria of being low income, because the City doesn't pay
that much, believe me.
(Laughter.)
MS. SCHNEIDER: You know, and there's no
differential pay at night, and he does work at night. But
just, you know, keep that in mind. If you want to do
something like this, please ask people if we're interested
in doing this. "Would you be interested in us coming out
and doing this?" To be honest with you, I honestly
prefer -- even though 1 live out there, the roads that I --
I drive on to go home are much better than what right's here
in the city, right on Sidney Biker. 1 think the money would
be well-spent improving Sidney Baker and other areas of
town, rather than, you know, asking for money to do
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something that people don't want. You know, so to please
everybody, I think, you know, just kind of put out a little
survey and say, Who wants this? Do you want this? Would
you be interested in this? Or would you, you know, prefer
that we improve some of the city streets around here?
And there -- there are places in town, I do
agree, you know, they don't look all that -- you know, look
all that good, but people try. And not everybody makes the
most money, but people do try to keep their property in very
good condition. And what we need to do is just find out,
what -- what do people actually want before we yo out and
say, This is what we're going to do. You don't have to
participate in it, but this is, you know, what we would like
to do. Would you like for to us do this for you? And I
think you'd find a lot more people would rather you improve
the streets in town so they can get to work, you know, a
decent way than do something like that. But I won't spend
much more time, because everybody has said pretty much
everything. There's nothing that Mr. Cosby has -- hasn't
said that wouldn't cover everything I wanted to say. But we
do apprer_iate you taking the time to let us talk to you, and
-- and let you know how we feel about it. But it just --
MR. HARTZELL: It's off. Already off.
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MS. SCHNEIDER: Well, not listed.
MR. HARTZELL: You're off. You're already
off. You're off already.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
(Applause.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Rhonda Mitchell.
MS. MITCHELL: Hello. My name is Rhonda
Mitchell, and I also live on Fawn Run. I have pictures of
all the houses in our subdivision here -- well, until I ran
out of film; there's about three that aren't on there.
(Photos handed to Commissioner Daldwin.)
MS. MITCHELL: According to the criteria that
I've seen, we meet one, the density. I just saw this area
profile, and they're talking that two units on our street
need rehabilitation. One of them we know does, but it's not
on our street; it's on Wharton Road. We've all offered to
help this lady. We've offered to mow her grass. We've
offered to help her fix her roof. We've offered to help her
do vinyl siding. She doesn't want our help. You can'L help
people that don't want your help, And we've offered -- Ed
Maldonado offered to even have her -- somebody mow her grass
every week. You can't help people that don't want your
help. So, you know, I -- I don't know what else to say. I
don't want to be on the list. It lowers my property value,
Maybe not in your eyes, but in a buyer's eyes it domes lower
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my property value. I haven't spent money fixing up my
house, landscaping my back yard and everything else, for you
to lower my property value by establishing me as a colonia
or a potential colonia. Again, the only criteria we meet is
the density. But you also say we have several undeveloped
lots. Those lots are owned by property owners that own
houses right next to the lots. The only reason the vacanC
lot next to me is not owned by me is because the gentleman
that owns it and I cannot come to an agreement. I want to
buy that lot, he wants to sell it, but we can't come to a
price agreement. So, I'm just asking you to take our
neighborhood off the list. We would appreciate it very
much. Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ; Here are your pictures
back.
MS. MITCHELL: You can keep them for the
record. I've got copies.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Robert and Christine Allard.
MR. ALLARD: Everyone's basically said
everything time and time again. My thing is --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Sir, we need your name and
address, please.
MR. ALLARD: Robert Allard, 118 Turtle Creek
View.
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
MR. ALLARD: My thing is, about three years
ago, I was made to go down to U.G.R.A., develop paperwork
just so that I could get a septic system. How did they not
know that everybody had a septic system? They've goL
everything sitting there, right there in front of them.
Were they not given the right information? Why axe they
having to go out and Look to see, well, do they have a
septic system? They're not going out to check tkiem. Also,
if I decide not to get on this plan -- he says it's free.
My neighbor that decides to get on it, am I going to have to
pay his through my tax money? 'Cause my taxes are going to
go up, I guarantee you that. They're going to say, okay,
this plan -- we don't have enough funding to keep it going.
Let's go ahead and we'll just raise everybody's taxes across
the board. So, eventually, I am going to be paying for them
to be hooked up to the plan. Am I incorrect? Thank you.
(Applause.}
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Patricia Crisman.
MS. CRISMAN: I'd rather not speak at this
time.
JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine, Ms. Crisman,
Thank you for your interest. That's the list cf people who
signed up to speak. Is there anyone who did not sign up
who'd like to come forward and speak? Once again, is there
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anyone who did not sign -- yes, sir, come on up. How are
you tonight?
MR. DELGADILLO: I'm not sure if I filled out
a blank.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thanks a lot.
MR. DELGADILLO: My name is Larry Delgadillo.
I live at 1775 Upper Turtle Creek; I've lived out there 20
years. I'm also a Kerrville native. And what I want to
address is the title of colonia. When I left Kerrville, I
went to school in west Texas and saw what was there. Then I
transferred down to south Texas, down to Edinburg, that
area, and my primary job was to assess kids in colonias, so
I definitely know what a colonia is. And, to tell you the
truth, in Molina Road or Turtle Creek, there is hardly any
house that would meet the criteria that I saw dowr, in south
Texas, where there was cardboard -- they don't have septic
tanks out there, they don't have water at all. And I had to
go in those houses and assess kids. And out here in Turtle
Creek, we do not have anything that comes close to that.
You may see junk cars, but a lot of times they use that for
hunting; sit in there and hunt out of them or something like
that. But, anyway, I just want to say that I would like
Turtle Creek to be removed from consideration as a colonia,
okay? Thank you.
(Applause.)
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Is there anyone
else who's not had a chance to speak and would like to come
forward and address the Court? Anyone else who'd like to
come forward and address the Court? Sir?
MR. MENTCH: My name is Bill Mentch, and I
live at 1550 Upper Turtle Creek. And I take it as a
privilege to be able to be here tonight. I wasn't able to
be here last week; I had more important business, and that
was with my church. Yes, Robert, you are right; you will
have to pay for your neighbors. And our -- one thing I'd
like to ask, are you gentlemen not allowed to answer a
question? Because Robert asked several questions, and you
didn't even answer.
(Laughter.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: The questions asked really
weren't for us to answer, as I recall.
MR. MENTCH: I'm just about like everybody
else. There's been a lot said here this evening, and I
don't agree with any of it. I've been out there for 30
years, and I've been just fine. I've raised my family out
there, and I went to the little church out there for 20
years on Molina Road, and I don't like anybody calling my
church a rundown building. I do appreciate everything the
gentleman right over there said that lives here in
Kerrville, and I believe that there's already been a lot of
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damage done as far as labeling our area a colonia. And I
don't care what the definition of H.U.D. is of a colonia,
because when you speak to the public about a colonia, well,
everybody here has already given you their definition of
what a colonia is. So, one other thing that I would like to
bring aut is this windshield inspection thing. I don't like
to be labeled a colonia, and I don't like for my home Lu be
inspected and called something just by somebody driving by
and looking at it. There are people that pay thousands of
dollars for barn wood furniture, and just because somebody's
home is made out of barn wood, or made out of something that
they like, doesn't mean that it's run down. I may have a
rock house, somebody else may have a brick house, somebody
else may live in a mobile home or a stick house, but it's
what they want. That doesn't label a person a pour person.
It doesn't say what they bring home every month. And I'd
just say that I don't like the idea of somebody just driving
up Molina Road or Turtle Creek Road or Keith Boulevard or
Dingly View, or any of the other roads out there, and
labeling our area a colonia. Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Once again, is
there anyone else who'd like to speak? Yes, sir?
MR. SMITH: My name is Travis Smith. I live
at 115 Turtle Creek View. I've been out thew a little less
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than two months. Within three days -- I live in a
manufactured home that's less than three years old. Within
two days after the underpinning was up, the only thing you
see of my home is the very end as you turn the corner. How
could anybody judge my home from that view? I want for --
for us to be removed from that list. There's nothing wrong
with that property. We just invested 59,000 in a septic,
not counting the connect fees, not counting what we paid to
U.G.R.A. for the approval. There's septic, there's
approval. What more can you ask? Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
(Applause.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else"? Anyone else
who'd like to address the Commissioners Court?
AUDIENCE: May I ask, is Molina Road being
taken off, or is it being left on?
JUDGE HENNEKE: We're not in a position to
take any action tonight, ma`am, but I would suggest that
there's probably a developing, if not fully developed,
consensus that Turtle Creek Estates doesn't belong on the
list.
(Applause.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, ma'am?
MS. MITCHELL: I have a question.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Identify yourself.
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MS. MITCHELL: My name is Rhonda Mitchell,
and I live on Fawn Run. When are y'all going to make the --
the decision of who stays on and who stays off? Eecause we
would all like to know when y'all are going to vote on that
and whether we're going to be able to be present so we'll
know who to vote for in the next election.
(Applause.)
JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know exactly when
we'll do that. It won't --
MS. MITCHELL: Will it be in the paper ahead
of time so everybody will know?
JUDGE HENNEKE: It will be certainly in the
-- on our listed agenda, and one of the things I want to
address when we're done here is how we can better
communicate on this issue.
MS. MITCHELL: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know exactly, but it
will be probably within the next six weeks.
MS. MITCHELL: Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else who'd ]ike to
address the Court? Yes, sir?
MR. SLY: My name is Ed Sly, and I live at
112 Molina. And I'm wondering, out of all of this, if you
gentlemen are really looking at what might happen to real
estate values in these areas you're looking at. You know,
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if we're going to continue to be marked as a downtrodden
neighborhood or whatever, some of us, if we can do it, will
move. Real estate values probably will go down, and I
really wonder if you passed this by the real estate board.
But real estate values in these areas you're looking at --
and you're going -- if -- if you're going to continue to
mark us as you're doing, you can bring in some pretty poor
people. You can bring in a number of people, quite a big
number, maybe, over some time, that won't have the
background and the fortitude and a real work ethic, and care
for their home as some of we people have today in these
areas, and I just wonder if you've been looking at that.
I know we're after money; 1 think we all
realize that. And I commend you gentlemen, I guess, for
trying to secure this money the way you are, but I really
wonder if you've been looking at every facet of this. And
Helen and I moved down here 20 years ago -- or about 18
years ago now, from Michigan, and I retired here. And it's
been a beautiful second home. Michigan is still our home,
but Texas has become a great home for us. And I'll tell
you, gentlemen, I haven't slept too well this past week.
I've been up and down quite a bit most every night. And I
don't know why this has come upon us, and I Lhii,k all of we
neighbors look at this about that way. Why are we having
this, if we can put it crudely, shoved down our throat? And
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all the garbage, if I can use that term again -- or that
term, that goes with it. I -- I don't have the same feeling
about Kerrville. I don't have the same feeling about Kerr
County. I don't have the same feeling about Molina Road.
I'll be frank with you, as I was a month ago. Gentlemen,
it's a downer. It's a downer. And Helen and I are not
destitute; we could get a few bucks out of where we live and
we could go on somewhere else, but we've learned to love
this area. And I tell you, man, you're putting a real onus
on it. It isn't like it was a month or two ago. And I
appreciate your efforts. I know you have certain things
that you have to try to accomplish for the county, and I'm
sure you're not in this work just because you love it.
You're in it because you want to make a little name for
yourself, and there's nothing wrong in that. We're all
human that way.
(Laughter.)
MR. SLY: But I suggest you take a long look
at what you're trying to do. It's not good.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fred, I have comments.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we see if we're
finished first, Buster? Anyone else who'd like to address
the Court on this issue? Is there any other member of the
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public who'd like to address the Commissioners Court during
this public hearing on this issue of the draft Colonia 2000
Plan and Study? If not, do any of the Commissioners have
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. I'm
not going to even attempt to debate the merits of the
program. It's probably a good program. I don't have any
idea, but I do have some comments to make about the function
of government and the way government runs and the way we
run. I've always looked at things -- there's a -- there's a
proper way to do business and there's an improper way to do
business. And when people have feelings that -- to quote
Mr. Sly, that government is being run down their throat,
that is a -- that's not an orderly way for government to
run,	so I feel	badly about	that. I know you folks feel	like
that	-- that we	're driving	government down your throat.	You
feel like that we're a runaway train, we're moving forward.
I also feel like the project that is underway on Ranchero
Road is extremely needed, and I'm big time in favor of
pursuing that project to its very end. If you're -- if
you're familiar with that area at all, you'll understand
what I'm talking about. We need to finish that project, and
I'm in favor of that. It's my view that everything outside
of that particular project needs to be put on hold; that
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until everyone -- the public -- gets on board the train with
us, and everyone is working side-by-side to accomplish
fixing some of the problems out in the county. So, with
that, I'm going to officially request that we delete Turtle
Creek Estates from the list.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I don't
know that that requires a vote, but if it does, we'll --
we'll address that at that time. Thank you very much.
Mr. Sly, get some sleep.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a couple
comments, Judge. The process began when we learned that we
had the opportunity to obtain grant moneys to map the
infrastructure needs of Kerr County. That came along after
we'd already received grant money to do the Kerrville South
project, which I agree with Commissioner Baldwin, it is an
excellent project. There's been a lot of things said
tonight because emotions generally run high in meetings of
this nature. Some are true. Some are exaggerations, and
some are misrepresentations of fact, but we're not going to
try to sort those things out now. Everybody's had an
opportunity to express themselves. Having received the
grants which get the Kerrville South project, Phase I,
underway, the dollars are for engineering and construction,
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and to assist low- and moderate-income folks in hooking up
to sewer if they determine that that's in their best
interests to do so. The only incentive about that is that
if you receive those dollars -- if you reject those dollars
for -- for hooking up when they're offered, and you -- and
you don't want to do that for whatever reasons -- you may
have put in a new septic tank. Who knows what your reasons
might be? There's a small window of opportunity, and you
lose that opportunity. That's the way the grant, I believe,
is written.
When we had the opportunity to receive the
grant moneys for infrastructure mapping, we determined that
that was a good idea, because, contrary to popular belief --
and I'm sure that everyone here tonight represents their
true feelings, and they represent themselves to know what
they believe to be the situation in their neighborhood. But
my good friend Arthur, who -- he and I discuss things every
now and then, and I dearly respect and love the man. I --
I'd make an offer to you, Arthur. I can take you to some
areas in Kerr County in Precinct 2, and I can show you open
cesspools. Cesspools. They're there. Believe us, they're
there. And our purpose is only to identify areas of need.
Just because they have been identified doesn't mean they're
going to become projects. They may or they may not become
projects at some date in the future.
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The purpose of the plan of having identified
them -- and I'm sure the Grantworks folks tonight took
copious notes and will make adjustments to their plan based
on what they've heard, from what you've said, what the sense
of this audience is. Once that's done, then the plan comes
back to Commissioners Court for its review. It has to go to
the State for its review, and then it is either adopted or
it's not adopted. It hasn't been adopted. It's not
official. It's a work in progress, and that's exactly what
it is. And even if it is adopted, what it does is sets a
tentative agenda, if you will -- not hidden, mind you, but
very public -- of needs that could be looked at for grant
purposes only down the line, ten years out. We may or we
may not do them. We may or may not ask for grant moneys.
Grant moneys may or may not be available. The strings on
the grant moneys may be more than we choose to handle. But
that's what the process is all about. So, nothing here
tonight -- nothing in this plan says that tomorrow morning
there's going to be backhoes out there digging trenches and
laying sewer lines in your neighborhood that you don't want.
Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just have a couple of
comments. First of all, I'd like to thank everyone for
coming and expressing your views. As one of the members of
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the Court sitting up here, it's not particularly fun to hear
it all the time, but we do appreciate it. That is how we
learn what you -- how you feel and what you think. And I
probably made a mistake -- or did make a mistake by
casting -- I think Eric termed it a "broad net." And I
think it's probably because we didn't think through it
completely, what the term "colonia" would mean to the
residents of some of these subdivisions. That was our
mistake, enormously. But, as Commissioner Williams says,
there are areas in this county that do need -- and I don't
know if they qualify as a colonia or if you want to call
them colonia or not, but there's areas that certainly --
there are needs that need to be met. And this program,
through the colonia funding, is a way to meet these needs,
in a -- the most economical way for the County and the
county's residents.
What concerns me a little bit -- and I don't
know, you know, if the rest of the residents of the county
don't know about being on the list or don't mind being on
the list, but I think Commissioner Baldwin's idea of putting
everything on hold for a little bit, slowing down a little
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bit so that we can check with people in these other
subdivisions -- there's another -- I think eight other ones.
MR. HARTZELL: There are ten.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ten other ones. And to
make sure those people understand what's there, again. But
I don't think -- I don't think anyone on this Court wants
to -- I'll use the term -- "cram" something down anyone's
throat. If the residents don't want it, I don't want to
vote for it. But I do believe that there are areas of the
county that do need help, and there is a way to do it. And
they may be willing to take the stigma of being a colonia.
And I think, in some areas, it will help property values to
get the cesspools and the other problems and the sewage --
or failing sewage systems corrected. But, to sum it up, I
appreciate y'all coming. I think the Court has heard what
y'all had to say.
MS. HURAYT: Why doesn't the Department of
Health get --
JUDGE HENNEKE: Stand up and identity
yourself, please.
MS. HURAYT: My name is Virginia Hurayt. And
I was just wondering, like, these places with cesspools and
all that, why don't you get the Department of Health
involved in that? Because that should take care of it.
They do in other states.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: We try. We don't have
the Department of Health in the county. We do get -- we
have tried to get T.N.R.C.C. and some other regulatory
agencies involved. There are state laws regarding failing
septic systems. We try to get those enforced, but it is
difficult sometimes, but we are trying to address some of
those areas through legal avenues.
MS. HURAYT: Because they do that in other
states. If there's any kind of violation around the house,
or a potential illness, like, from these cesspools and that,
they get involved and they -- they do something about that.
Obviously, here the Department of Health doesn't do
anything.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County has very
limited authority in that area overall. We rely on the
state agencies. I guess T.N.R.C.C. probably has most of the
authority there.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir?
MR. MAGILL: William Magill. I would just
like to suggest that we get U.G.R.A. out of the loop.
That's what bothers me the most. We don't have -- they're
not an elected body.
JUDGE HENNEKE: The reason U.G.R.A. is
involved in the Kerrville South project is two reasons.
One, they were willing to put up the $75,000 match for the
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grants. And, secondly, in order for the City of Kerrville
to process the wastewater, since Kerrville South is outside
of the city of Kerrville limits, there had to be another
government entity to have a contract with the City of
Kerrville in order to -- for the City of Kerrville to take
the waste. U.G.R.A. wanted to do it. The County doesn't
have a utility department. We don't have the people to do
the billing; we don't have the people to do the -- the
collections. U.G.R.A. was willing to do it. It seems to be
part of their mission, as the protectors of the river, and
in the city -- in Kerr County, if you will. Many of you may
not know that Third Creek, which runs through -- no, Camp
Meeting Creek.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Camp Meeting Creek.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Camp Meeting Creek, which
runs through the area of Kerrville South that we're working
on now, has been declared by the T.N.R.C.C. as not meeting
the requirements of the Teras Clean Waters Act, so we have a
lot of work to do in that area. To us, rather than create
another county department and bureaucracy, this was a
cheaper and simpler way to address this issue. And, you
know, it remains to be seen how it works out, but right now,
the proper -- the project in Kerrville South is moving
forward. It's moving forward as quickly as we can, and the
response that we've gotten from the residents in the target
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area has been very good. Many people who are not in the
target area, who -- or who are in the target area, yeah,
that do not meet the income requirements have come and said,
"Can we be part of the project as well?" And we're
attempting to find a mechanism whereby we can do that.
Someone earlier mentioned eminent domain for easements. In
the Kerrville South project, we have not had to condemn any
property for easements or lines. Any necessary property
that we needed has been donated, because the residents
realize the value of the project to their area. So, perhaps
that answers your question about U.G.R.A.; perhaps it
doesn't. You know, like the other Commissioners have said,
this is a work in progress, and we're working through it as
best we can, with everyone's interests in mind. Cynthia?
MS. HURAYT: Yeah. It was along those lines.
My name is Cynthia Hurayt, and I think a lot of the other
comments we've had throughout the evening has been the issue
of U.G.R.A., the fact that they are not accountable to the
taxpayers. So, I would just suggest that while y'all are
putting this on hold, take some time to sit back and
evaluate how the taxpayers feel about having a taxing
authority that's appointed at the helm of this once we get
through with the project. It just seems that maybe there's
something we can do to seek -- talk to our Legislature, see
that U.G.R.A. becomes an elected board, not appointed. I've
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talked to my state legislator -- legislators, and they seem
pretty uninterested about this, so I'm hoping that maybe
y'all will either find someone else to take over this thaC
we can hold accountable for fees, assessments, or maybe you
can help us see that U.G.R.A. becomes an elected board.
Thank you.
JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. I want to address
real quickly the issue of communication. I mean, this --
tonight is what county government should be about. We are
the closest to you. There is no staff here. You don't have
any staff members sitting up here answering questions. If
you have a complaint -- what's your number, Buster?
(Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 44.
JUDGE HENNEKE: You reach us directly. We
are not insulated from you. One of the frustrations that
I've experienced in my three and a half years as County
Judge is the inability to engage a wide variety, wide
spectrum of the county on issues such as this. I qo out and
talk to anybody. I mean, I see two guys standing down at
Water and Earl Garrett waiting for the stoplight, I'll run
down there and talk to them about something. I`ve had a TV
show for two years. We do the best we caii to communicate,
but we can't talk to you all individually on each and every
issue. So I'm going to discount the allegations that
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there's some hidden agenda or some Machiavellian reason why
this hasn't gotten to you earlier. It's just a problem of
communication. Any of you who want to get the agendas, Iet
us know; we'll mail a copy of every agenda to you. If you
have e-mail, we'll e-mail a copy of every agenda to you.
You know, they're posted twice here in the courthouse.
They're made available all over the city. If you all want
to form a no colonia committee or something like that and
appoint a liaison to communicate with us on this issue, we'd
love to have that.
AUDIENCE: Who do you give your --
JUDGE HENNEKE: 'Cause we've got --
j AUDIENCE: Who do you give your e-mail
address to?
JUDGE HENNEKE: It's in the paper. It's on
our letterhead. I'll give mine to you right now, if you
want it. It's --
AUDIENCE: No, I'm talking about ours. You
said you would e-mail us.
JUDGE HENNEKE: You can call us and give it
to us. Our court coordinator's here in the front row,
Ms. Sovil. If you want to give it to her tonight, we'd be
happy to have it. The issue of communication is -- is a
difficult one, and I could speak for the whole Court, I
believe. We'd love to have this kind of participation on
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every issue. It would make our meetings kind of long, but,
hey, we get paid by the day anyway, you know. We're not
hourly; we're not wage earners. So, you know, we're here
for the duration. So, I'd like to ask you all to help us by
communicating with us, by being aware of what's going on.
We'll do our best. We'll continue to do our best to get the
word out to you. But we're not trying to hide anything.
There's no reason for to us hide anything. We want your
input. The input that you give to us at the beginning is a
lot better than the input that we get at the end, but we'd
rather have the input regardless, 'cause we need you. We
can't do it alone. So, as we wrap up tonight, I'd like to
j ask y'all to think about how we can better communicate with
you, and also how you all can better stay in touch with what
we're doing, because we're doing your business. We're not
up here doing our business, None of us have our own -- our
own agendas, our own promotion in mind. We want to do
what's best for you and for all your neighbors and for all
the people of Kerr County, and we do our dead level best to
do that. Yes, ma'am?
MS. SMITH: My name is Cynthia Smith, and I'd
like to sleep well tonight. All my precious neighbors are
here from Four Seasons. Wi11 you please take us off the
list?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one?
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JUDGE HENNEKE: Four Seasons?
MS. SMITH: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll take that under
advisement. Like I said, we are not posted to take any
votes tonight, but we are certainly listening to what people
have to say.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eric, where's Femur
Seasons?
MR. HARTZELL: I believe it's just past Wood
Creek, but it's off -- it's off Turtle Creek Road. Is that
right? Off to the right?
MR. ALLARD: Between this couple, this
couple, and us, we own probably 25 percent of the wtiule Four
Seasons, so we'd kind of like to be taken off of it.
DODGE HENNEKE: Well, if y'all are on the
list, we'll certainly take another look at it. That's what
we're here for, but we're not here to stay all night. So,
unless there's anything else that anyone has, we're
adjourned, and thank y'all for coming. We appreciate it.
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 8:35 p.m.)
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STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 7th day of June, 2002.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY: ___ _
Kathy B ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
F 3-C2