..~. .. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 23 24 'S KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT Emergency Meeting (reconvened) Tuesday, July 9, 2002 3:30 p.m. Commissioners' Courtroom Kerr County Coux:thouse Kerrville, Texas Response to G00~ xerr County Flood vl J PRESENT: FREDERICK L, HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H.A."BUSTER" BALGWSN, Commissiunex Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 LARRY GRIFF7N, Commissicner Pct. 4 ABSENT: JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 ~, L 1 ~... 2 3 4 5 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 79 20 L 1 22 ~3 24 25 On Tuesday, July 9, 2002, at 3:30 p.m., the emergency meeting of Juty 9, 2002, of the Kerr County Commissioners P R O C E E D I N G S JODGE HENNEKE: Okay. It's 3:30 on Tuesday afternoon, July 9th, Year 2002. We will reconvene the emergency meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court that was convened yesterday, July the 8th, Year 2002. ender the Ter.as Open Meetings Act, Commissioners Court is permitted to adjourn a meeting for up to 24 hours. We adjourned yesterday, after talking about flood response, and I went out and I have made several attempts to contact B.F.I. to solicit their assistance in allowing the residents outside the city to dispose of debris from the flood. I have been singularly and frustratingly unsuccessful in getting any resolution. I talked t:o Mr. Ramos at the local office yesterday. He said he was going to have a meeting with his supervisor yesterday afternoon; they would call me back. He didn't call me back. I called San Antonio this morning, left a message with a supervisor. The secretary at the local office called me back right before lunch and said the supervisor and Mr. F.amos would be meeting right after lunch and they'd call me as soon as he they were finished, "] - ~ a y E I.7 ~ ; 1 3 4 5 6 8 10 11 1 L 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ?1 22 23 ~9 25 3 and at 25 minutes till 4:00, I haven't heard from them. So, I'm hopeful that they're just having a hard time finding the resources to accommodate us, because I know the people out in the county do need some help. So, I really don't have anytYiirrq to report at this time. Rather than have to reconvene a meeting, I would ask the Commissioners to consider giving me the authority to commit up to a certain dollar figure for this, because otherwise, if we do it other than an emergency, it's going to be three days before we can reconvene and get something going. So, what do y'all think? COMMIS"SIUNER BALDWIPS: Doing exactly what? I mean, let's have an entry game and an exit game here. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the proposal that was made by Commissioner Williams was that we -- we essentially rent three or four of those large construction dumpsters that are on wheels. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. JUDGE HENNEKE: And place them at several places in the county. Commissioner Letz said he'd like to have something -- if we did something like that, have it at the Comfort Little League field. Commissioner Williams said that the Lions Park in Center Point or somewhere like that. Commissioner Griffin actually indicated he didn't necessarily feel the need for one out west. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We don't have any ~_,~ y_ ets~s 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 -, 4 2J house damage where we've got household goods and carpet and that kind of thing. There's just not enough out there to rent one of those big things. DODGE HENNEKE: I thought we might put one at the Hi11 Country Youth Exhibition Center, and I didn't know if we needed one down in the Turtle Creek area. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not to my knowledge. DODGE HENNEKE: So, perhaps three? Rent them for two weeks, with B.F.I. responsible for hauling them off when they get full. I mean, that -- that's a concept. That's a notion. I don't have any idea what it would cost to do that, or whether they even have -- whether they're even willing to do that. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, number one, whether they're willing to do it, and number two is, depending on where you put them, 'cause I know we've tried -- the State tried to put some small dumpsters at the Hunt Crossing some years ago, and in two days it was overflowing with household garbage. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I mean, it's just one of those things that we might -- were you put them is very important, is all I'm saying. Where we might locate them would be very important. Of course, that was in a very out-of-the-way area, where people didn't have any 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 1~ 13 14 15 15 17 18 19 20 21 2~ 23 24 25 5 compunction about throwing their household garbage in there, but it wouldn't do much good if we rani get rid of the real flood debris by that method. It wouldn't do us much good just to rent them and put them out there and let people put anything in them. JUDGE HENNEKE: We're just going to have to rely on the citizens. In a situation like this, you know, if we had a refrigerator that was Flooded, all the food that was in the refrigerator is flooded. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. DODGE HENNEKE: If you had a house that was really -- that was really damaged, everything is flooded. Now, what we don't want would be large trees. We don't want somebody to haul a 3-and-a-half-foot diameter tree down there that blew over. They can deal with that in other ways. What we would want would be actual debris from the flood, household debris or personal debris. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I think we have -- if we do figure out how to do it., I think we're going to have to understand that there's go-ng to be a certain amount of trash in there that somebody's going to take advantage. And the question is, does it serve a useful purpose for the people who have a need'? Notwithstanding that somebody's taking advantage, 'cause somebody's going to do it, take advantage. The question is what it:'s going to cost, and how 1 3 4 5 F 7 S 9 10 11 12 13 14 i`J 15 17 i8 19 20 ~1 22 ~3 24 25 6 long it should be left out there. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's one of the keys, is the time period. I -- I would want to cut it as short as possible. I mean, why leave that thing out there and open up opportunities fog some problems to happen? You know, it's kind of like the burn ban. Inevitably, we put the burn ban on and people ca1:1 me that night, wanting to know when they can burn. And it's just the -- I don't know if it's a phenomenon or what, but we -- we put the -- if we put it out there, there's no=king going to -- anybody's going to put anything in it for a month. If we put a time frame on it, if we put it out there for a week or two or something like that, give people some time to -- you know, I'll go along with it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I agree. I think we should have a time frame -hat's reasonable, but not too long, ber_ause then you'll -- tlZen it's an invited situation. You know, that dumpster's still there. Let's take it out -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I would suggest no more than two weeks. A week might be enough, but it might be kind of close, too. I mean, I don't want -- and, again, I don't know if this is even possible. This is just an idea. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Unly thing out in the 1 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 1G 1? 14 15 16 17 lft 19 ?0 21 22 23 24 <5 county that I would wonder about, most of the wood products and things like that, unless they're in the subdivision itself, most people are probably going to stack up and burn -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Exactly. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- out there. What you're going to end up with is -- is hoc water heaters, washeridryers, refrigerators, and how are they going to get that inside one of them dumpsters? COMMISSIONER WILLIANIS: You're going to end up with a lot of rotted out carpet and things like that too, Rusty. SHERIFF HiERHOLZER: But how are they going to get it -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leave them out beside it. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's where it's going to end up. You're going to end up with a pile of stuff. Then you're going to have to get somebody down with a bulldozer or something, or front-end loader to pick it all up. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yep. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, that -- I think we need to do something. And I'm -- you know, we're trying to figure out a way where it doesn't inconvenience the people 5-5=' ENi~ 8 1 3 4 5 h 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 15 17 18 19 20 ?1 22 23 24 =' S who have been wiped out in this flood. I really don't want them to divert a Road and Bridge crew to -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Would it be feasible to contract with somebody, with a good front-end loader and dump truck, just to go out at flood-damaged areas and help clean it up and haul it off, and then the County pick up the tab on some of that for those largest items? Now, I don't know if you can do it with just one dump truck and one front-end loader; if even a contractor would consider it. JUDGE HENNEKE: I -- I'm willing to consider anything, you know. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And have them haul it somewhere, and we end up with it everywhere. JUDGE HENNEKE: Maybe we just need to keep looking into this. CGMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Rusty may be on to something there, but I don't know how you'd -- you know, if it's truly people in need, you ]snow, personally, if I had damage, I don't want the governmen= taking care of me. I would rather do it myself. I'm -- I want to be responsible for my own deal. But then you have folks out there that are -- really and truly have a need, that are -- have been flooded, and may not have a pickup and a trailer to haul all those things to the dump. Which I don't either, but I'd borrow nne. But then you have -- -, . - `i ;1 LS N B 1 2 3 4 5 5 8 9 10 11 1Z 13 14 15 16 1 "! 18 ly 20 ~l 23 24 25 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN COMMISSIONER BALDWIN yours? You can have mine. Yeah. I can borrow COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can have mine. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. And then you have those people out there that ar_e multi-gazillionaires that just need to have the trash hauled off, and we're going to send a dump truck out to their place and haul it off and send us a bill? Or -- that would make me mad. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It just needs to be -- you know, whoever you contract with, that they have the -- the deal on whether it's actually =food-damaged stuff and actually a need for it and, you know, have the right to do it or not to. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I understand what you're saying, Rusty, but you're talking about two people at least, and two pieces of equipment. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From a cost standpoint, that probably will exceed what it will cost to ask B.F.I. to come in and put a durnpster down. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: By the time we work this out, it sounds like FEMA may have already put a r_herk in their hands, which will include the cost of hauling it off. Now, there is some -- there is -- because that's -±-~_ E:; 1 Z 3 9 5 5 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 ?1 22 ?3 24 25 i0 usually a parr of an insurance cos. or FEMA program, is the cleanup. And, so, if -- depending on how fast a response we get, this may be overtaken from B.F.I. This may be overtaken by other events. JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, that may be the best way to leave it, is just -- you know, when I hear from B.F.I., I'll contact you and -- COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can do a two-hour emergency deal if we want. JUDGE HENNEKE: We1.1, I think we can. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We11, if the County contracts with a private one with bulldozer and dump truck, will FEMA reimburse the County's e::pense of doing that? JUDGE HENNEKE: I doubt it. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To help get it cleaned up, you know, in a quicker, timelier manner, instead of just leaving it there? 'Cause -- JUDGE HENNEKE: Weil only get reimbursed -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- some people may take what they aet from FEMA, leave it, and we still end up with piles and piles of trash that somebody's got to deal with. JUDGE HENNEKE: The County will only get reimbursed for cleaning up our infrastructure, roads and bridges, and the two facilities that were damaged. So, any money we spend on behalf of the citizens is spent on behalf 11 1 J 4 5 H 7 b 9 10 I1 12 13 14 IJ 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2S of the citizens. MS. SOVIL: Can we identify the areas of need? DODGE HENNEKE: We can come pretty close. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Verde Creek is a big one. COMMISSIONER WILLIAP95: Say again? SHERIFF HiERHOLZER: Anything down Verde Creek is a big one. MS. SOVIL: Can we identify the areas of need? COMMISSIONER WILLIADIS: Pretty much -- well, I can, you know. And a lot of it's in Center Point, in the area cf B, C, and D, and 1, 2, 3 Streets in there. And a lot of it`s out there on Verde Creek where folks got flooded out. Some of it's down here on Riverside Drive, which -- access the Ag Barn, real quickly. DODGE HENNEKE: Well, let's just -- you know, wkien 1 get a report, we'll -- if I think it_'s something that's worth pursuing, we'll reconvene and move forward. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good idea. JUDGE HENNEKE: The other thing I think we need to talk about is this issue of private road access. Road and Bridge is being inundated with phone calls from individuals who live on private roads wanting us to come out - e:u ; I 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 l~ 1 ?. 14 15 16 17 13 19 zn 21 2~ 23 24 25 1 L and clean Y_heir road, and it's just overwhelming them, from what T niby told me and from what Commissioner Griffin saw out there himself. So, they've asked us to try to figure out a mechanism whereby someone screens these requests and makes a deterrnination of whether it's legitimate or not, because there have been some alleged abuses along the lines of, "I need to go down and see if I need to feed my cows, bu*_ I can't get tc my stock tank." And I don't think that's what we have in mind. So -- COMMISSIONEF. GRIFFIPd: We're talking about residential access, is what we're talkinq about. JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. So, a suggestion has been made -- two suggestions have been made. One, that the Commissioners screen the calls. COMMISSIONER BALDWIn~: That's not a very good idea. (Laughter.) JUDGE HENNEKE: You notice I said Commissioners. Not County Judge. Commissioners. COMMISSIONER. BALDWIN: Yeah. Go to Plan 2. Ji?DGE HENCdEKE: Well, the -- Plan 2 was for the calls to be referred to the Sheriff's Department. COMMISS1ONER BALDWIN: That's a good one. SHERIFF HIER.HOLZER.: Thanks, Buster. JUDGE HENNEKE: And that they would -- if -- - - ,_ n; 1 L 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 IS lti 17 18 19 20 ~l 22 23 24 25 13 basically, the criteria is if they couldn't qet a -- a patrol car down the road easily -- not necessarily easily, but couldn't get a patrol car down the road without severe damage, it probably needs some work. So -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So, if we get severe damage, then they need work, huh? I've had enough damage so far. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, after we've tern up a Sheriff's car or two -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Already tore up one. I don't want any more. My opinion o= that, as far as -- as dealing with emergency calls and things like that, which is where I get concerned, I think we do have to be able to get to all the residents in the county. Because what happens is they oaLl cs; we can't get to them, and they want us to call a helicopter, and so it's not needed at that time. Some of it is. IL you want to refer them to call us, I won't -- I can't afford -- I don't have the amount of personnel to run around all day long doing nothing but checking roads. We can keep a list, and during the regular patrol hours, try and get people to go by and check some of those, and if they are truly a need just to get them accessible -- I don't mean fixed, or I don't mean because they're too rough or something, but if you want to leave it at the discretion. of that patrol officer to call Road and Bridge and say, "This - ~_ ,. ce^. r. 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1R ~0 ~l ~2 23 ~4 ~~ one, we cannot get to their residence," I don't mind trying to institute something like that for a week or two to give Road and Bridge time, and to prioritize some of these to at least get car or vehicle access to residents, where we could need to get them to an emergency. JUDGE HENNEKE: No. Addressed to the Commissioners, are we talking about roads? Are we talking about driveways? COMMISSIONER WILLIAIS: Well, I think first, public access roads, even though they're not in the county maintenance program. That's the first -- after we've taken care of our own roads, then public access roads that are not in the maintenance program should be 1~oked at. Now, I'm just looking at order of magnitude. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To me, the first -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Private driveways come way down on the list. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To me, the only ones that should matter and that 1 would be concerned about are ores where you may have eight or nine different homes back in this area. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. SHERIFF HIERHUL'GER: Like we have in several places, and we can't get to them. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, that's what . - ~ ri 15 1 3 4 G 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 1J 16 17 18 1~ ~0 2I 22 23 24 ~~ ~~ I'm talking about. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You know, that access road -- it may be a private road or whatever, but we cannot -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAnS: 7 realize that. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- cannot get to those eight or nine houses. Those are the ones that I wouldn't mind going out and sending a guy out during regular duty hours to look at, call Road and Bridge and say, yes, this has got fine or sir, houses back in here. We can't get to them; it's a dirt road, but can you at least make it passable? COMMISSIONER GRIFFInL• See, and another -- SHERIFF HIER.HOLZER: Driveways. I'm not for going out checking people's driveways. To me, iE you own property and that's your personal, private driveway, it's up to yuu to keep it up. COMMISSIUIQER WILLIAMS: Why couldn't we screen chat down, xusty, along the lines you're talking about, by having Road and Bridge give each Commissioner the list, and let the Commissioner take a look at the list and give it back to you? COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Here's the problem we run into, that -- Bill's already been through some of this. In many cases, the Sheriff's Department guys and guys that - ~ ~ _ E M G 16 1 2 3 4 5 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 19 1J 16 17 18 19 20 21 ?2 23 24 25 ride those roads regularly are the cnly people that can find some of these private roads. You could have a list, and I guarantee you -- I can guarantee you, in my precinct there's 732 square miles; there's a whole bunch of those private reads that I have no idea where they are. Even if I've talked with the landowner, it's very difficult. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our guys probably are already aware cf some of the roads that we can't get to multiple houses here. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're talking hundreds of roads. I mean, hundreds and hundreds of private roads. JUDGE HENNEKE: How would you want to handle this, Sheriff'? Do you want the calls to come directly to you? Do you want them to come through F.oad and Bridge? Gr COMMISSIONER GRIFFIDI: I think you ought to go directly to the Sheriff. SHEF.IFF HIERHGLZER: We11, I think with it already coming out in the newspaper one way, okay, Road and Bridge is going to get a lot of calls, 'cause that's the only newspaper some people are going to see. You can say it's going to come to us this time. We're both going to get them. And we're just -- us and Road and Bridge are just going to have to work together to get out and check them. If Road and Bridge has got a crew out in the area and they 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 l~ 13 14 IS 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 ~ j 24 25 17 can go up there and look at the guy's road, you know, I'd like for them to do it, 'cause my -hree guys on the road at a time aren't going to be able to cover everything that happens. If we've got somebody in that area, we'll go do it. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. This is a clarification of what we were talking about -- I'm talking for the media here. This is a clarification of what we were talking about yesterday, because what has happened is -- is that the Road and Bridge people don't e*.~en have enough people to man all the equipment -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- that they need to man. And they don't have anybody r_hat can go out and do this, quote, evaluation kind of function. And it's a lot better, anyway, because the Sherif"'s Department quys -- the deputies probably have a better knowledge of where the roads are. And if they can't get a crui:;er in there, chances are people need some help. So, I agree that -- and I would hope that on -- that the calls that they have received, they can give to you; they have the phone numbers and names, at least, and names of roads. And maybe they can coordinate something out with you. And, as you said -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of other people that may Y.now already of a lot of these roads is Going to be - 1 -9 ~ ~N. 18 1 3 4 5 E 7 b y 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~5 your volunteer fire departments. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because they drove a lot of them; they were out constantly all during this time, and they could help with that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAIKS: They can help. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd listen to some of them. If we qet a call in from a volunteer fire department to our office saying, we've got this road, then I don't want to have to gn out and doublecheck. If the volunteer fire department's already seen it, they've seen it. They -- I trust them just as well as our guy:>. They'll know what we can get across and what we can't. JUDGE HENNEKE: How about this? How about we -- we continue to have people call the Road and Bridge Department, and put out that the Road and Bridge Department and the Sheriffs Department will cooperate in determining those roads -- those private roads which need immediate assistance for access purposes. And let -- that's -- you all call Elm Pass and say, "Have you been by this road?" T}iey say, "Man, you can't get down that road," or -- SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it needs to be a joint effort between all of us, between P,oad and Bridge, us, and the volunteer fire departments to make sure -- because what we've Lalking about is in emergency situations. Any of i G F N l~ 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 .0 21 22 23 ~4 25 these emergencies out in the county, normally, your First Responders and most of your volunteer departments are going to respond, sc any of us three that: can -- can just kind of be in touch with each other, make sure somebody's checked, and then let Road and Bridge know, yeah, this one's important, and -- and if we get an emergency, we're going to need to get in there. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One of the issues they've run up against, by the way, is that we have people -- there are people in the county who live on county-maintained roads that still don't have access. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the first priority, in my book. COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's almost got to be -- and those are major -- those carry more traffic, so those roads ought to be opened first. Those county-maintained roads need to be opened first, because they do serve more than one person. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I just hope that we remember that -- you know, I think we're probably walking on the edge of law out there anyway by going on private property and doing work. But we just need to remember that we're talking emergency here. We're talking about people that need to be able to get out and get some groceries, food for the families, and to the doctor and an -.-~.' et