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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Regular Session
Monday, April 14, 2003
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
-- 13 Kerr County Courthouse
14 Kerrville, Texas
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PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
April 14, 2003
PAGE
--- Commissioners Comments 4
1.1 Pay Bills °~~031 g
1 . 2 Budget Amendments o7~D32 ~ °~ $~~ 11
1.3 Late Bills __
1.4 Read and Approve Minutes a~C~3T 18
1.5 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports ~8°-3$ 19
2.1	Presentation of grant award by LCRA for the	
	completion of Union Church/V~ oRdeR	19
2.2	Presentation of 911 address updateNd pR~eR	22
2.3	Resolution for renewal of Juvenile Behaviorala8'o34	
	Transition Program through Juvenile Justice and	
	Delinquency Prevention Fund	36
2.9	Road name changes for privately-maintained roads	38~~d~~
2.10	Possible revision to Commissioners Court agenda	
	to establish/utilize consent agenda method of	
	disposing of routine county business N° °kde~	41
2.4	PUBLIC HEARING - Revision of plat, Tracts 48 &
°ro~e~
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49A of Kerrville Country Estates, Section Twos	50
2.5	Final revision of plat, Tracts 48 & 49A,	
	Kerrville Country Estates, Section Twoa~0+1)	51
2.6	PUBLIC HEARING - Revision of plat, Site 15 of	
	J.L. Nichols Subdivision Nc~ ORd~r	56
2.7	Final revision of plat, Site 15, J.L. Nichols	
	Subdivision ~go~2	57
2.8	Final plat approval for Stablewood Springs Ranch	
	Condominium Projecta8043	59
2.11	Approve use of Flat Rock Lake Park for Bike Rally	
	on June 20-22, 2003 a8o~~-	95
2.12	Appointment to AACOG Rural Public Transportation	
	Advisory Committee a ~jo~5	102
2.13	Authorize advertisement of RFP for architectural	
	and/or engineering services for design and/or	
	construction of facilities at Hill Country Youth	
	Exhibit Center~28o~~	103
2.14	Status of pending Airport Lease Agreement with	
	Joseph L. Kennedy Enterprises, Inc. ~~ 4RdeR	116
2.15	Establishing wellness program for Kerr County	
	employees o?8~47	142
--- Adjourned
--- Reporter's Certificate
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On Monday, April 14, 2003, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting
of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the
Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville,
Texas, and the folloU?ing proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and
gentlemen. It's 9 a.m. local time. I'd like to call to
order the regular Commissioners Court meeting for Monday,
April the 14th, and at this time, I would call on Precinct 2
Commissioner, Bill Williams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good morning. I'd
like to introduce the pastor of Zion Lutheran Church, the
Reverend David Chancellor, who's been with us in the hill
country for about a year now. He's originally a west Texas
boy, and he's down here enjoying the rocks and the reels and
the green part of the hill country, and David came to
Kerrville to Zion Lutheran about a year ago from Lufkin,
Texas, and he's glad he did. Pastor Chancellor?
MR. CHANCELLOR: Glad to be back in God's
country.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Please join us for a
word of prayer.
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Pastor
Chancellor.
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JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, any person here
with us that has a desire to address the Court on any matter
that is not on the agenda, this is the time for them to do
so. If you're here and want to speak concerning a matter
that is on the agenda, we would ask that you wait until that
particular agenda item comes up and speak at that time, but
as to items which are not on the agenda, if there is anybody
here that wants to give us an earful, well, we welcome that,
and we would ask that you come forward at this time and --
and have the privilege to do so. Is there anybody here that
wishes to address the Court on any matter not on the agenda?
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see any indication, so
we'll get on down to our normal business. Commissioners'
comments. Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I only have one,
Judge. It's kind of an invitation from the Republican Women
of Kerr County, who are dedicating a plaque and a memorial
bench to the memory of Dixie McConnell. That dedication
will take place in the Elm Creek Park on Tuesday,
April 22nd, at 5:30 p.m., and they extend a cordial
invitation to anybody who was touched by Dixie's enthusiasm
and involvement iii church, education, gardening, and
politics and so forth, to be there for this presentation.
Thank you.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Three?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple of brief comments.
Last -- last week was a long week. I think it was last
Tuesday night, I had a meeting with some -- Rusty and I went
out to Cypress Creek Community foY probably one of the
largest meetings ever in that area about law enforcement.
And --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see any blood
or marks or stitches or anything.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was a scene that I
was fortunate -- or unfortunate to be on Channel 12 news
that night, unexpectedly. But, anyway, I thought overall it
went very well. Some people are concerned still about the
lack of law enforcement in that area. I think we answered a
lit of questions, talked a little bit about 911, and I think
what shows that it was a good meeting is that there's a
follow-up meeting for those citizens that want to, to talk
specifically more about crime prevention, and Bill Amerine's
going to get with us out there for that meeting on the 23rd
of this month. So, we've had some issues to deal with out
there from a law enforcement standpoint and crimes that
we're all aware of. We're trying to work with them as best
we can. And that was followed by Thursday with the Region J
meeting, and that progress is a little bit slow right now,
mainly because we're not sure if we have any money or not.
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Our region is a little more conservative than the rest of
the regions in the state; I think a lot them are going along
spending money. We've put a hold on everything until we
find out what the budget is. I guess would we could spend
it now, but we just don't do things that way, so we're
waiting. But we are -- I guess our next meeting will be in
early June, when we should have a good idea what our budget
will be for the next biennium, and things are progressing.
And we had a very good meeting there; we had probably the
largest attendance at a Region J meeting. It was held in
Leakey. We probably had in the audience probably 30 or 40
people, from numbers. So, anyway, I'm glad to see the
interest there. Water planning is a big interest to me.
There may be a little bit of reshuffling on our board,
maybe. I don't want to announce any names, but we have
another west Kerr County rancher that may be joining us, as
well as some other people from the region.
JUDGE TINLEY: Four?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I pass.
JUDGE TINLEY: One?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just
wanted to -- I guess everyone has seen the -- today's
newspaper. In our prayers this week, remember
Dr. Meriwether and his family because of the loss of his son
over the weekend. Courtney was a fine young man, good
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leader in the community, and great athlete. He and my son
have competed against each other for a number of years, and
scheduled to run against each other this coming Thursday, as
a matter of fact. And -- but he died in an automobile
accident, and a great loss to our community. He was a good,
good, good kid and a good leader, and just want to lift
Dr. Meriwether and his family up. That's all.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I have one
other quickie.
JUDGE TINLEY: Surely.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There will be an open
public forum for Headwaters Groundwater Conservation
District candidates, as well as Center Point Independent
School District candidates, in Center Pcint High School
gymnasium Thursday night at 7 p.m., if anybody's interested
in attending that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I want to thank
everybody that came out this past weekend to the Youth
Exhibit Facility or Ag Barn, if you prefer, for the annual
Wild Game Dinner. I think it was well-attended, and there
was a lot of support out there for the projects that
sponsoring organizations serve. In addition, it -- there
was an opportunity, by virtue of Commissioner Nicholson's
resolution designating the 12th of April as Houston
Schumacher Day in Kerr County, that was partially in honor
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of -- of Mr. Schumacher, who was a longtime active
participant in that, as well as many other organizations for
all sorts of worthwhile causes in this county. I would also
note that there was considerable activity in the -- in the
fundraising area and some of the auction items for the
benefit of the young Comfort solder that was lost in the
Iraqi campaign. And I haven't heard the totals on that, but
I think everyone was quite supportive of that, and I was
real proud to see that. So, we -- we thank all of you that
attended and supported it in any way, whether it be
contributing items or bidding on items or buying the raffle
tickets or just dropping something in the bucket there for
that young Comfort soldier that we lost in service to his
country. That's all I have. We can move on with the
business at hand. I guess we're ready to pay the bills,
Mr. Auditor.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have a
comment about the bills. I want to point out, in the
Commissioners Court section here, I see that the
Commissioners Court has been off to a conference, and I'm
one of them; I'll be darned. But I wanted to remind you
that the -- the State requires commissioners and judges to
go to classes and get "X" amount of CEU's, the hours to be
certified commissioners and judges, and we have gone to one.
That doesn't come anywhere near obtaining all of our hours
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to be certified, and we're down to -- we have a balance this
morning of $100 and a few cents left. And what I'm saying
is just to remind us when we get into the budget, the State
requires us to be certified, and they set up these meetings
where you have to go t~ two; you can't -- you cannot get
enough hours in one. And I -- I had fought with them for
years about that, but so far I'm losing that battle. But
we -- we have to put more money in there for us to meet the
requirements of the State.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it -- I wasn't able to
attend the -- the Judges and Commissioners meeting at Fort
Worth which the rest of you attended. I did, however,
attend the judges meeting in Lubbock in January, as well as
a government administration seminar. I, too -- as you know,
I'm required t~o have not only hours in the -- in the
governmental administrative area, but also in the judicial
area. And in that regard, as I'm sure most of you recall,
there was a lot of -- a lot of conference money restored in
the last budget that was initially pared out. Most -- a lot
of it was restored. I don't recall that there was that much
restored that --
can tell yeu.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From $500 to $900. I
JUDGE TINLEY: Mine was left at $500, and --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
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JUDGE TINLEY: -- I would point out that our
County Clerk, Ms. Jannett Pieper, was kind enough -- for the
probate seminar that occurred lass month down in Corpus
Christi, she was kind enough to allow me to utilize some of
her conference money, because she ascertained there was some
reimbursements that were going to be coming back to her, I
believe, from the Office of Court Administration, and by
virtue of that, she had a little extra, and so I kind of
rode her coattails, and I want to thank her for that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, if we don't have any more
on that, why, we'll let Tommy tell us about the rest of
these bills.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay the
bills.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded by Commissioners Baldwin and Williams,
respectively, that we pay the bills. Any further
discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)

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JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We've got
budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1.
MR. TOMLINSON: Number 1 is for the Sheriff's
Department. This -- this amendment actually increases the
budget by $4,565.04. It reflects the receipt of that amount
from the Bureau of Justice Assistance for Bulletproof Vest
Program. So, we're increasing the Operating Equipment line
item by that amount for the purchase of --
JUDGE TINLEY: But those are third-party
funds that are coming in to offset that?
MR. TOMLINSON; Yes, they are.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion`s made and seconded by
Commissioners Letz and Williams, respectively, that Budget
Amendment Request Number 1 be approved. Any further
discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Even though
there's money coming in from the bureau to offset this cost,
those numbers will be in the budget next year? Yes or no?
MR. TOMLINSON: No. Not -- not unless we
know that we're going to receive those again next year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, good. That's a
good thing.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, but I think your
point is also -- is that when we look at comparing
expenditures from year to year, they will be in there in
that comparison. We need to kind of file things like this
away, that there's a reason, you know, there's a spike.
JUDGE TINLEY: Your point's well-made. I
think -- I think the operating equipment in this current
year's budget needs to be annotated that this amount was
increased by virtue of an offsetting --
MR. TOMLINSON: It --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- assistance fund.
MR. TOMLINSON: The budget worksheets will
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MR. TOMLINSON: So we'll know, in review.
JUDGE TINLEY: Would it be possible for you
to footnote that so that when I start looking at those
numbers in preparation for next year's budget, that it will
be a clear red flag going up for me?
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know if I can find
all of them, but I will try.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'd appreciate that, if
you could. Any further discussion? All in favor, signify
by raising your right hand.
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(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget
Amendment Request Number 2.
MR. TOMLINSON: Number 2 is for the 198th
District Court. And we have a necessity to transfer
$6,571.43 from Court-Appointed Attorneys line item, $52.50
to Special Court Reporter and $6,518.93 to Court-Appointed
Services. I do have a -- a need for a hand check in the
amount of $2,819.15. It's to the company of the
Nucleo-Genix, and it's for the case review and expert
consultations for a case.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
we approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2 and authorize
the issuance of a hand check in the sum of $2,819.15 sent to
Nucleo-Genix. Is there any further discussion?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Could you say again
what occasioned this -- this unforecasted expense?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's -- it's the State
of Texas vs. Andrew Duarte in the 198th District Court. And
apparently, this is -- this person is a witness for that
trial. We just didn't have the funds available for
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court-appointed services to pay for it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Apparently some sort of an
expert witness in lab analysis. It sounds to me like
possibly DNA-type testing. I don't know. Any further
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget
Amendment Request Number 3.
MR. TOMLINSON: This one is for the County
Court at Law, and we're asking for a transfer of $122.66
from the Special County Court-at-Law Judge's account,
transfer $22.60 to Miscellaneous, and $100 to Special Court
Reporter line item.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, what's the
difference between a special ccurt reporter and a regular
court reporter?
MR. TOMLINSON: We -- we try -- it's for
H.B. 7.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: We differentiate the cost of
indigent defense, as opposed to -- to regular court, so we
can report that to -- to the Office of Court Administration.
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And, actually, it's for the purpose of hopefully obtaining
funds from -- through the Office of Court Administration.
It's an annual report that we do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would it be, I mean,
possible to put, like, "court reporter," and then afterwards
"indigent" or something? I mean, just a way so we can --
I'm sure I ask the same questions probably three or four
times a year. It seems that it's a -- I mean, if there's a
way to look at it and understand what it is easier, it would
be easier for me. Well, I guess it's easy for you. That's
what --
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we -- well, we can. I
just kncw that -- I just know that that's what it's for.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded by Commissioners Nicholson and Letz, respectively,
that Budget Amendment Request Number 3 be approved. Any
further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just keep asking the
question.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Motion passes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe we can do that
in the next budget process.
MR. TOMLINSON: We can change the name of
that account, I mean, you know, any time we want to. So --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSnN: I'd Like to see that
too.
JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request
Number 4.
MR. TOMLINSON: This one is for the County
Attorney. It's for software maintenance to The Software
Group, and we're asking to transfer $100 from Miscellaneous,
$120 from the Telephone account, and $498 from Attorney's
Fees. That will make it $718 to Software Maintenance --
actually, we have a bill for -- for this quarter, and we're
adding enough to pay for the next quarter also.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by
Commissioners Letz and Nicholson, respectively, to approve
Budget Amendment Request Number 4. Any further discussion?
All in favor, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
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JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget
Amendment Request Number 5.
MR. TOMLINSON: Number 5 is for the Sheriff's
Department. This request is to transfer $949.62 from
Deputies Salaries, $136.16 into Radio Repairs and $813.46 to
Investigation Expenses. I do have a -- a need for a hand
check payable to James Graham for $1,106.27, and it's to
reimburse him for expenses to California for the Comfort
murder.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by
Commissioners Letz and Williams, respectively, that Budget
Amendment Request Number 5 be approved and authorize
issuance of hand check to James Graham for $1,106.27 for
reimbursement of expenses previously incurred by him. Any
further discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a comment.
Tommy, this radio repair, you don't foresee any more coming
down the pike, do you? I mean, we just spent a million
dollars on radios.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don`t -- that's a good
question. That's a question for the Sheriff.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: I can't predict that.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be happy to ask him
that.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion?
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed?
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Do we have
any late bills?
MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, we don`t.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Next item, read and
approve the minutes, unless I have a motion, I have before
me the minutes for the regular session meeting Monday,
March 10, 2003, and the special session of Monday, March 24,
2003.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we
waive the reading and approve the minutes as they are.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by
Commissioners Baldwin and Williams, respectively, that we
waive the reading and approve the minutes of the regular
session Monday, March 10, this year, and the special session
Monday, March 24, this year. Is there any discussion?
Being none, all in favor, signify by raising your right
hand.
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(The motion carried by unanimous vote.}
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. I also have
before me monthly reports from the District Clerk, County
Clerk, Sheriff, Justice of the Peace, Precincts, 1, 2, 3,
and 4.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move acceptance of
the monthly reports.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by
Commissioners Williams and Letz, respectively, that we
accept the monthly reports of District Clerk, County Clerk,
Sheriff, Justice of the Peace, Precincts, 1, 2, 3, and 4, as
presented. Any further discussion? All in favor, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.}
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll now move to the
consideration agenda. For the first item of business, we
have with us today a gentteman that I've recently come to
know and for whom I've acquired a great deal of respect
because of his expertise and abilities. He has an extensive
background in economic development, community betterment,
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and civic involvement, and he's an active sort of fellow,
the type that wants to roll up his sleeves and go to work
and help his community. Even though his position requires
him to be active within counties and communities in the
entire hill country and central Texas area, he has chosen to
make Kerr County his home, and we're very, very grateful for
that. He's a public affairs representative for the Lower
Colorado River Authority, who we commonly call L.C.R.A., and
that's an organization that's been very, very active and
financially supportive of many, many local government
nonprofit and other civic causes here within Kerr County,
and we're most appreciative of that and their help over
many, many years. And, at this time, I would call upon
Mr. Roland Pena, the public affairs representative for
L.C.R.A. He has a presentation to make in connection with
our Historical Commission activities, and representing them
we have General Walter Schellhase and Mr. Haskell Fine, and
I'll turn it over to you now, Mr. Pena. Glad to have you
here this morning. Thank you.
MR. PENA: Thank you, Judge. Thank you for
that. introduction. I was not expecting that. I'm extremely
humbled. I consider it an honer to be here before you, and
a privilege. I am ecstatic about -- about today's
presentation. We -- I know that you've received a written
acknowledgment, but I think today we wanted to make it
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public and notify you and the public that you've been
awarded a $15,000 grant -- Community Development Grant, made
possible by the C.D.P.P. program that KPUB and L.C.R.A.
share. Now, that's important. Our grants are made possible
because of our customers. I'm not sure if KPUB is here
today, but what I brought with me _s a banner that, if you
have time, we could do a -- a Kodak moment for the press and
we can show the public just what this check is going to look
like. You'll have the hard copy in your hands within 48
hours. I'd like to have the Union Church building
representative with us so that they can take a photo as
well. P.nd we're extremely proud of what you're doing with
regard to historic preservation. I'm glad we're here, and I
commend you for all of your efforts.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Pena.
MR. PENA: Where do you want to do this?
JUDGE TINLEY: Anywhere you're comfortable.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Judge should be
in that picture, too.
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. PENA: Do you want us up there?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, come on up here.
MR. PENA: How about the Commissioners? No?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cameras -- you'd need
a wide-angle lens to get us in there.
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(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Kodak moment is over.
MR. PENA: Congratulations.
JUDGE TINLEY: You guys spend this money
wisely, now. We appreciate you being here, Mr. Pena. Thank
you so much. Happy moments in local government.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly when
they give us money.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you bet you. Thank you
again, Mr. Pena. We appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wonder what precinct
Roland lives in.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do you live,
Roland?
MR. PENA: Well, I'm living temporary in the
Riverhill Apartments until I can build or --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's Precinct 2.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's temporary, I
hope.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good try.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You showed real good
judgment iii selecting Kerr County.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, indeed.
JUDGE TINLEY: Next item is the presentation
of the 911 address update by our 911 Director. I'll turn it
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over to Commissioner Precinct 1, Buster Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much,
sir. And before our director comes up, I wanted to present
a -- a document here from the governor of the state of Texas
that states that this week, April 13th through 19th, is --
he proclaims as Public Safety Telecommunicators Week, so
that's a -- it's a perfect time, I think, for the -- that
deals with 911 and all those issues that they -- that they
do out there, and I thought it was a perfect time for
Mr. Amerine to come back to us and kind of just give us an
update on what they're doing and what he is doing. And, as
you probably have seen in the papers and heard around town,
that they are doing a -- a blitz through the media and
service organizations to let -- try to let everyone know
what's going on, and that's something new for us in 911, and
I appreciate what they're doing. And their whole goal is to
let the general public in Kerr County know what's going on
with their 911 system. So, Mr. Amerine, if you would come
forth? And I think he has a couple of board members with
him.
MR. AMERINE: Yes, I do. I have Charles
Lewis and Walt Harris, who are both board members just this
last year. Commissioners and Judge Tinley, thank you for
having me here today to talk about our progress. It's been
very positive, but I'm going to have several caveats, so be
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prepared for those. I didn't really think about how I was
going to display this, so if I could get good Commissioner
Baldwin's assistance?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Who are we
showing this to?
JUDGE TINLEY: Put it on that easel.
MR. AMERINE: I don't see any tacks; I was
JUDGE TINLEY: Put those up there.
MR. AMERINE: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're welcome, sir.
Don't start all this military stuff.
MR. AMERINE: Can't help it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Look at that. God,
we're good. See? This is another function of the 911
system.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's cooperation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is.
MR. AMERINE: My very talented staff has made
a Great deal of progress since I spoke to you last. The
area that you see in Kerr County there that's green is
90 percent complete. I want to temper that with saying
those are probably the least populated areas of the county,
and as you can see, we have some very populated areas to
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still attack. But I think the important thing is that -- to
let the Commissioners know and the citizens of Kerr County
know that we're ahead of schedule; we intend to stay ahead
of schedule. But the key here is, this is all internal.
This is internal to the 911 office of our addressing effort;
we're building these databases. In September, we'll be
producing letters to go to tYie citizens. Acid the final
sheen on this effort will come from the citizens of Kerr
County letting us know that we've done a good job, verifying
information that we've provided them in these letters, and
coming out to pick up their property signs so that we can
make sure we can find them. But I just wanted to let you
know we're well ahead of schedule. Things are going very
well.
We've -- I want to take this opportunity to
thank the Commissioners who have been very actively involved
with helping us with some of the road name issues, and
unsolicited help that I'm getting from some Commissioners on
some of our citizens and their perspectives about 911.
Commissioner Baldwin mentioned this -- this state
proclamation on the National Public Safety Communicators
Week. It's also the National Public Safety Communications
Week as well. Timing couldn't be better from the 911
office. We started kind of slow with the public awareness
presentations we're giving to community groaps. We're
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starting to pick up the pace. Last week we met with all
five Postmasters and our representative, Cindy Guerrero,
from San Antonio in a workshop with our local media to talk
about not just the addressing project, but what 911 in Kerr
County means, what we do. We took them on a tour of the
public safety access point, which is -- answering point,
which is our computer over at the Kerrville Police
Department that stores all the 911 information.
I think it was a very positive experience and
it was a great meeting. We got a -- I'm going to qualify it
as a wholesale, 150 percent endorsement from the Post Office
on our plan and where we're going with that. And you'll see
a lot more. You'll see information for the citizens from
now until the end of this effort at the end of the year, and
probably through next year as well in the public schools, on
the -- the newsprint, the radio, local television. We
intend, when we get around to finishing this project, there
won't be a citizen in Kerr County that has any
misconceptions about what 911 is in this county, what the
addressing project means to them, and how we're going to
finish it and how we're going to need their help. Any
questions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir.
MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question on
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the -- you went over the -- I guess, the address signs or
the numbers. How is that going to work? I mean, how are
those going to be distributed to the public to post? Or do
you -- have you got that far yet?
MR. AMERINE: We haven't really given it much
thought, other than the fact that the sign maker that used
to reside over in Roads and Bridges is now back over in our
facility. We are currently setting money aside to buy the
initial supplies that we need for the reflective tape and
the sign blanks. Initially, just brainstorming with our
group, we've thought about havir:g people come in to the
local office and to pick up the signs, much as they do in
other counties. We also thought about some of the more
distant areas of the county, actually setting up at some of
the volunteer fire departments and those areas and providing
a local service for providing those signs, having someone
out there scheduled to do that. I think that -- you know,
one goal -- I've made the comment before that the physical
address that 911 is going to provide is meaningless without
a property sign at the gate. I mean, it's going to be in
the database; it will be displayed for the dispatchers, but
unless there's a 911 sign that helps that emergency
responder find that property, it's meaningless. So, we
haven't rea11V got much thought at this point, but we're
looking to do it in our office and probably at the volunteer
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fire departments.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have a
comment, Judge. I happened to be at the Host Lions Club
meeting last week when Bill made a presentation, and I was
impressed by the fact that he started his presentation by
asking those that were in attendance, "Tell me what you
think about 911, and tell me what problems you've
encountered." And that's the kind of input that we need --
we have needed to solicit in the past, and I appreciate your
doing that.
MR. AMERINE: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Amerine, do you
have any thoughts about what the County could be doing
differently to help you out, whether it's Commissioners
Court or the -- the address coordinator or Road and Bridge
or whoever? Is there --
MR. AMERINE: I don't have anything to share
today. I think as we go through this evolutionary process
of addressing, especially as we get closer to producing the
letters for the citizens, that we're going to probably be
putting our heads together t.o talk about those things, but I
just don't have anything today for you, sir. I just have --
on that question, I have to say I'm very pleased with the
cooperation I'm seeing from all stakeholders in this
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project.
COMMISSIONER
asking for help, 'cause I t
what we can do to --
MR. AMERINE:
COMMISSIONER
keep that up, if you will.
MR. AMERINE:
NICHOLSON: I appreciate you
pink oftentimes we don't know
Right.
NICHOLSON: -- move it along, so
I will do so.
here on this court, and --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, ho.
JUDGE TINLEY: Second that motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a second down
there. It's hard to get him to second anything. But what I
wanted to do is take the liberty to offer this Commissioners
Court -- you know, that when you go out to these functions
and service organizations, if you -- if you feel like one of
these guys or all of us need to -- or one of these guys need
to go with you, don't hesitate to call, 'cause the Judge
doesn't do much, so he'd be happy to g~ along, show his
support.
MR. AMERINE: Thank you for that. And I
think something I'm -- I discussed with you last week that I
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think would be an excellent opportunity to show solidarity
amongst the Commissioners and all the stakeholders is, as we
get close to the letter mailing in September, to get the
Commissioners, the Judge, the Post Office, the 911 office,
the Board of Managers from 911, the City Managers or Mayors
together for a news conference to say the letters are
coming. You've had a media blitz up to this point to
understand what these letters mean to you and what we're
looking for as far as interaction, and to answer any
questions the media may have. That -- the solidarity that
we've already seen indirectly is great, but I think that is
kind of the final push so that we can get citizens to get
out -- what we want is more than a 48 or 50 percent turnout
on these letters. We need, you know, 80, 90 percent to make
sure that the addresses that we have in our database are
valid and that we have citizens out there that can be found.
So, I'll be talking to all of you as we get through the next
few months before that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it'll be well
worth the effort to actually post a meeting for five minutes
or ten minutes, whatever it takes to do that, so we can all
be together ar.d get this thing done. I'm really proud of
the -- what's going on with our 911 system. We've gone many
miles. Thank you, Mr. Amerine --
25 ~ MR. AMERINE: Thank you, sir.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- for your service.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Amerine?
MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir?
JUDGE TINLEY: Are you going to be able to
meet Mr. Betz' expectations for his group that he had down
there ir. Comfort here this past week?
MR. AMERINE: Well, between the
Commissioner's help and the help of one of my board members,
I'm. sure I'm going to have a very good meeting on the 23rd
with some of our citizens out there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. AMERINE: But I -- you know, kidding
aside, that's absolutely what my job is here as
representative and speaker for the 911, is to go out and --
just as I said at the Lions, I want bold, honest, in-my-face
honesty from these folks. If I don't have that kind of
feedback, I don't know where we're making mistakes, so I'm
ready for that.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think the encouraging thing
is that you're getting this kind of interest from the people
out there that -- that want to see this thing happen, and
hopefully that's a sign of -- of the degree of participation
when they're called on to participate and respond to these
letters. And if they'll work with you there, from what I'm
hearing, if you ever can make it happen, then we're in
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pretty good order.
MR. AMERINE: I hope so.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One other comment, just
kind to dovetail that a little bit. That's that -- and I'm
not positive of this, but I'm pretty certain the reason the
community in my precinct was able to get Channel 12, KSAT,
down there was based on -- I'm saying based on the trailers
that were shown during the day about this being -- it was a
big story on their channel, the 10 o'clock news, was that
after 12 -- this is the trailer: After 12 years, Kerr
County still can't, you know, get 911 done. And I think
it's real important for us to remember, I mean, that while
we're happy we're making progress, there's a tremendous
amount of frustration in our citizenry and our constituents
that nothing's happened, in their mind, in 12 years. And
"nothing" is -- is probably a little too strong, but I think
there's a real reason a lot of our citizens are real
concerned and upset with 911, and I think that's what -- you
know, I got the brunt of some, and I think most of us have
probably received calls about that at one point or another.
And I think it is very important for Mr. Ariierirre to go out
and visit with people and for us to be up front with him,
and -- but, you know, I think that -- you know, I went out
on a limb based on him going out on a limb, and we have a
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schedule now. And I said, you know, the letters are going
out in September, and that's putting a lot of accountability
behind this right now, and we just need to be -- you know,
we need to remember why we're -- the citizens are upset with
-- those that are upset.
MR. AMERINE: Well, at the risk of sounding
defensive, and I certainly don't want to, one of the things
that was mentioned in that news conference -- or let's call
it a media opportunity that you had, was that Kerr 911
doesn't exist because some of the citizens of Kerr County,
when they dial 911, get Kendall County. Well, that's a
problem that we need to know about. That's simply not the
way it should work. And those things are driven by how
someone's, you know, billing record is set up through the
phone company, whether they've moved recently. The number
one thing that folks in Kerr County need to know is that
it's absolutely important for them to call us at our office
and let us know that this has happened, and we can fix it
for them. It's a real easy thing to fix. So, the
perception that there's not a 911 system in Kerr County has
-- has to gc away. That's why we had the media workshop.
We took the media over to show them that there, indeed, is a
911 system over in the police department. It is up grid
running; it has been for years. So, when citizens have
something like that happen where they don't get the right
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dispatch, they need to call us and let us know. We can fix
that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, after
Mr. Amerine finishes his baptism of fire at Cypress Creek, I
invite you to work with me to set up a town meeting in
Center Point, do the same thing.
MR. AMERINE: I will, sir. I very much would
like to do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think -- you know,
and I don't know how we really solve that problem of --
like, there was something -- I don't really know how it
happened as to why some Comfort residents who live in Kerr
County -- it gets sent to Boerne as opposed to Kerr County.
I don't know why -- you know, I don't know why that happens,
but I also presume that Bill has some.
COMMISSIONER WILLIP_MS: We do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I bet -- you know,
and I know there's some in -- I wouldn't be surprised if
there's other situations, maybe in west Kerr County, maybe
Buster's precinct as well, where, because of fire
departments and everything else, it's kind of -- it's r.ot
real simple as to who gets notified. Arrd I think we need to
do additional work with the dispatch in Kerrville on the
other side of that, 'cause there's been some problems there
recently as well.
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COMMISSIONER WILLiAMS: Would that be more a
function of telephone routing than anything else?
MR. AMERINE: Yes, sir, it is. That's
exactly what it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: You got 995 and 589 numbers in
Medina. That's what's causing the problem.
MR. AMERINE: Right. We'll 'nave to get with
the phone companies and let them know citizens that reside
in Kerr County need to be routed through our GPS -- our 911
system, not the adjoining county's. But you're right, those
situations are convoluted on how they pay taxes, the phone
company they use, what utilities they use, where they
reside. It gets very complex. The number one thing at the
end of th_s year, besides this addressing, is I want people
to have confidence they have a 911 system here that works
and it is up 24 by 7 by 365, 'cause that's the way it is.
That's what we have to do. That's what we've had for years,
so it really bothers me that folks feel like they don't have
a 911 here. They do. We just need to identify the problems
and fix them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: G7e appreciate you being here
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JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or
comments of Mr. Amerine?
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MR. AMERINE: Thank you. I'll leave that for
the Commissioners.
JUDGE TINLEY: NTr. Lewis, Mr. Harris, thank
you for being here. The next item on the agenda is to
consider and discuss the resolution for the renewal of the
Juvenile Behavioral Transition Program through Juvenile
Justice Delinquency Prevention Fund. This is one which we
have participated in for some period of time; is that not
correct, Mr. Tomlinson?
MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: And this merely reaffirms our
participation in the program, and the grant proceeds for
$32,000 and change, and our agreement to provide minimum
matching percentage of a little under $3,600. Is that
correct, Mr. Tomlinson?
MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: These funds are budgeted
already? Our match?
MR. TOMLINSON: This is for the juvenile --
the detention facility. Those -- this match is paid for out
of those revenues.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's paid for out of the
detention facility receipts, which is essentially an
off-budget -- it's a lump item out there.
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MR. TOMLINSON: This is -- this grant's
for -- it actually pays the salary and benefits for a
therapist for preadjudicated residents.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of the
resolution.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by
Commissioners Letz and Nicholson, respectively, that -- that
the resolution for the renewal of the Juvenile Behavioral
Transition Program through the Juvenile Justice and
Delinquency Prevention Fund be approved. Is there any
further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.l
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, the
Stablewood Springs Ranch issue, there are a number of people
here that want to address that. Would it be possible to
move that up in the schedule? Would we have some
flexibility?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the next item, of
course, that we have is a scheduled item for 10:00. We're
not there yet. The next four items actually are scheduled
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items, so that would necessarily bring us there. I think
it's wonderful.
MS. FROST: Judge, I'd like to request that
you not do that, because we have talked to the people and
asked them to be here by 10 o'clock.
JiJDCE TINLEY: You have some other people
coming?
MS. FROST: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. We don't want to
deny anybody the right to be heard that wants to be heard on
an issue.
MS. FROST: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: On the schedule, it appears
that it's going to occur probably after 10:30.
MS. FROST: Right. Thank you very much.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I appreciate that,
Ms. Frost. We could then go to 2.9. Would that be
acceptable without problems? We'll go to 2.9, consider and
approve road name changes for privately maintained roads in
various locations in Kerr County, pursuant to the 911
guidelines. Ms. Hardin?
MS. HARDIN: We have 10 today. I think most
of these are related to the unnamed road letters that the
Commissioners got. Anybody have any questions?
CGMMISSIONER LETZ: These are all private
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roads, correct?
presented.
MS. HARDIN: They're all private roads.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval as
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by
Commissioners Williams and Baldwin, respectively, that we
approve road name changes as presented for the privately
maintained roads in various locations in Kerr County, such
changes having been made in accordance with 911 guidelines.
Any further discussion? If not, all --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Discussion. Truby, there
are a couple of misspellings in the backup. Is that
important?
MS. HARDIN: In the backup?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's one -- you know,
and I don't know that -- it's on the first page in the
backup, is Diamond D Road.
MS . HP.RDIN : Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It shows location of road
off 183 near Kendall County line. I think it should be
Kimble County line.
MS. HARDIN: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are -- I mean --
and I thought there was another one I saw somewhere. But
that was the --
JUDGE TINLEY: 83 or 183?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 83. Should be 83.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MS. HARDIN: All right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless we moved the road,
I guess.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, I
noticed one new name is Sour Mash in your precinct. Should
we let the Sheriff know about this?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Identify the location
of the still?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was at Mr. Holt's
request. He's going with that -- that direction of names
for the roads in Whiskey Canyon.
JUDGE TINLEY: In the Whiskey Canyon
Subdivision?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Something up
here, I'm. telling you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does that make sense
or what?
JUDGE TINLEY: It was reported, you know,
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that back during the Prohibition times, that's how that got
its name of Whiskey Canyon; that there were some stills back
in that area. So it was reported to me, at least.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I've
always heard.
MS. HARDIN: We already have four more for
the next agenda, so if any of you have any of the unnamed
roads that you need to get in, I'd appreciate it so we could
get them in on the next go-round.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any further
discussion on this particular item? If not, all in favor of
the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you,
Ms. Hardin. Next item will be to consider, discuss, and
take appropriate action on revisions of Commissioners Court
agenda to establish and utilize the consent agenda method of
disposing of routine county business at regular and special
sessions of the Commissioners Court. Commissioner Williams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I put this on
here. I don't know whether a majority of the Court favors
this approach or not, but many Governmental agencies use it
and use it as a matter of expediting what otherwise is known
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as routine business. I asked the County Auditor to be
present for discussion, because I was of the belief that
there might be questions concerning how we handle budget
transfers and whether or not putting them on consent is --
is in accordance with the law, and so Tommy is here to
answer any questions that the Court may have. I also
included in your backup just a copy of a Bandera County
Commissioners Court that does -- has a similar type
provision for moving and expediting its business. So, with
that, we'll see where we are with it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I've got a
comment.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thought you would.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. The -- I have
had several people through the years come to me and say, "I
cannot believe that y'all go through each and every bill and
look at every little thing and actually vote on those
issues." Sometimes I can't believe that either. However,
I'm really comfortable in that being our duty, of looking at
every penny that comes through here and every issue that
comes through here. Now, most of these things, you know, I
kind of agree with. I think it would be kind of neat -- you
know, the minutes and reports and those kinds ~f things, I
don't mind at all. But when it comes down to discussing
money and -- and particular issues dealing with some things
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that I have going on in my precinct, I -- I would like to --
particularly the money issues, the bills and transfer of
dollars. I think each and every one of those need to come
to this table, and we actually discuss and vote on those.
Number one, recordkeeping. Court orders and those kinds of
things are extremely important. Years down the road, you
can look back on them and see what -- you know, look at a
track record or look at a track of where these things have
been and where they've gone. So, I would just want to be
careful in what we do. That's all I -- that's the only
comment I had. I just want to be careful about how we do
it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I kind of -- I
agree with Commissioner Baldwin on a lot of that. The
bills, the budget line items, those types of things, I'd
really rather do at each meeting, individually. I think
that is -- there's -- it is a way to make -- you know, go
through these items. I think that's probably one of those
important things we do. The minutes and reports, of course,
are not as significant from the standpoint of going through
them every day, but I personally enjoy going through the
bills and the budget amendments, things of that nature.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was pleased and
somewhat surprised, I guess, to find -- to learn that --
that the County employees and officials have an attitude of
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frugality ar:d I appreciate that. I didn't quite expect it.
I've dealt with other governments or bureaucracies where
being frugal and watching after taxpayers' money wasn't
important. Perhaps it's because I'm one of the younger
members on the Commissioners Court, but going through those
bills is -- is an education process for me, and it also
helps me explain in some cases -- not often, but
sometimes -- why we do what we do. So, I would like to at
least continue that part of the process on the budget issue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is not an item
that I'll fight, bleed, and die for, Judge. It is an item
that does, I guess, expedite matters a little bit, and I
think other bodies -- Tommy, help me out here, if you will,
please. Other courts that do this heed very seriously to
the fact that any member of the Court can -- can pull
anything off at any time for open discussion and so forth
and so on. And I believe when I chatted with Tommy about
this -- ar.d if you'll confirm this for me, Tommy, I'd
appreciate it -- that in our packet, our packet in advance
of the court meeting, this one, would still have those items
in it. So, if you had a question with respect to any budget
item -- is that correct? -- that it would be there, and
you're welcome to question it to any extent you wish to do
so.
MR. TOMLINSON: t~~ell, I would look at it
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as -- as approval by -- maybe by exception. If there's --
if there's an exception that -- or one particular item
that any member of the Court might want to -- to discuss
outside of the consent agenda will be fine. I mean,
there -- I know at the end of the year, you know, budget
amendments are really -- you know, we get as high as 25 and
30 of those in a meeting. There's -- and, basically,
they're -- they're for transferring amounts from one account
to the other that are -- that are actually not, you know,
increasing the budget. I think if you have an item that --
that you have to increase the budget, I think that would be
an exception.
There's -- you know, we've discussed this
before in the budget process, but there is one way 1..o avoid
budget amendments, and it's expensive, but you -- you can do
that through -- through a purchasing agent with purchase
orders, where all purchases are approved either -- either by
the County Judge or by my office prior to -- to purchase.
So, if there's a need for a transfer of funds, then -- then
the department head that orders those -- those supplies or
whatever it is has opportunity to determine, you know, where
those funds need to come from. And it would require
someone, you know, full-time to -- to implement that
procedure, but there are a lot of counties in the state
that -- that do that, that are our -- you know, that are our
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size. So, that's something that the Court might -- might
consider.
JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate the Commissioners
looking at trying to obtain a degree of efficiency, and I --
I can see where that -- that process, at least, even in
part, might increase efficiency. Insofar as saving time,
we're here doing the public's business and they have every
right to know what we're doing, and I don't want the public
to have any thought or idea that they're not or could not be
privy to every single dime that we spend or every action
that we take as it concerns the public, especially with
regard to the economic items. Some of the reports may be
not -- I'm not quite as concerned about that. Those
certainly are available for public examination and review,
just as we have them available to us. But the economic
issues, as Commissioners Baldwin and Letz and Nicholson
indicated, those are certainly something we want to do open,
on tcp of the table.
My concern is maybe the scheduling of those
things; that it might be better for the public to take up
the matters where there are items that need to be discussed
or debated, or in which there are various members of the
public LYiat rave input. I don't want to inconvenience the
public any more than -- than is absolutely necessary. What
we might consider doing is taking that portion of the agenda
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and putting it at the tail end, and then if there are any
members of the public that wish to look at these particular
routine items along with us, certainly, they can stay and do
so. But on the normal items that are open for discussion.
and debate and input from the public, we could get to those
quicker, and maybe that would be a reasonable alternative to
what -- wYiat you're suggesting. And I don't know if -- if
the input you've received includes some sort of distress
from public members that y'all go through these routine
things and we're kind of hung on a hook here until you get
to us. This would solve that problem, I think, so that
might be an alternative. If that -- if that's the desire of
the Court, certainly, as the one that approves the agenda, I
can make that change real easily. I can make it happen just
as -- just as quickly as Ms. Sovil and I work together --
correction, as she works to put together the agenda, and
then submits to it me for approval.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In that area, I wouldn't
mind leaving it to the end. I think it needs to be a timed
spot, because we frequently have other members -- other --
you know, Tommy and frequently people that are requesting
budget amendments, we ask them to come and present the
budget amendment, and I think that, you know, if we move it,
like, to 11 o'clock or so, as a timed thing every day and we
have to go to that, because I think it's also -- I mean,
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generally, those things don't take more than 15, 20 minutes.
Usually by 9:30 we're going into the agenda, and I think
most people coming from the public, you know, are aware of
that. But if we, you know, move it just at the end,
sometimes that could be 2 o'clock in the afternoon,
sometimes it could be 10:30, and I think that's really an
inconvenience to a lot of the other elected officials and
County employees as to -- makes it so they can't do anything
for most of the day, 'cause they don't know when we're going
to get there. If it goes to the end, I don't have a
problem, but I think it needs to be a timed spot.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, in that regard, I would
suggest that when we're dealing with County employees, we
can get them here a whole lot quicker on short notice than
we can the members of the public that have taken time out of
their schedule and have made arrangements to be here on
items of public business.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, I mean, but
there's -- the taxpayers are paying an employee to sit here
as opposed to doing what they're being paid to do.
JUDGE TINLEY: I understand.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it goes -- goes
both ways. I'd say if we do it later, I think it needs to
be timed.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'll do it any way you guys
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want to, if you want to give me your guidance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me suggest,
Judge, that you think about what might be a better way, and
we'll just pass over on this. If we need to bring it back
to another time, we can do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: What I may do is -- next
go-around is move it and see how it works from a timed
standpoint, and if it works, fine. We'll kind of keep
rolling that-a-way. If it doesn't work, we'll try something
else, if that's acceptable.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. My
suggestion would be -- is that we keep Items 3, 4, and 8 for
the -- up front at the front end of the meeting, and then
the rest of it, you can come in here at midnight, far as I
care.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 3, 4, and 8?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 3, 4, and 8. Payment
of bills, budget line item changes, and equipment purchases.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, 8. Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See what I'm saying?
Cut of that group. And do them while -- if for no other
reason, is to let the public know what's going on with their
money. And then these other things, these resolutions and
proclamations can be done at the end. That would be fine.
That would be -- that's what I would do if it were me.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I appreciate that input.
It is now a few minutes after 10 o'clock. We have a timed
item, which is the public hearing for revision of plat,
Tract Number 48 and 49A. So, at this point, I will recess
the Commissioners Court meeting and we will go into a public
hearing on the revision of the plat for Tract Number 48 and
49A, Kerrville Country Estates, Section Two, iii Volume 4,
Page 131 of the Plat Records.
(The regular Commissioners Court meeting was
closed at 10:07 a.m., and a public hearing
was held in open court, as follows:)
P U B L I C H E A R I N G
JUDGE TINLEY: Who do we have here on that
particular issue? Any members of the public wishing to
speak on the revision of the plat in Tract Number -- Tracts
Number 48 and 49A, Kerrville Country Estates, Section Two,
as per the plat in Volume 4, Page 131? Any member of the
public wish to be heard on that issue?
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: There being no one so
indicating, I will close the public hearing, and I will call
to order the Commissioners Court meeting for this date.
(The public hearing was concluded at 10:08
a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court
meeting was reopened.)
JUDGE TINLEY: And we will proceed to Item
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2.5 in the consideration agenda, that being the
consideration of the approval of final revision of the plat
for Tracts Number 48 and 49A, Kerrville Country Estates,
Section Two, in Volume 4, Page 131 of the Plat Records.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Franklin, what do --
what exactly what are we doing here?
MR. JOHNSTON: We are dividing a lot, 49A,
into to two parts, 49A-1 and 49A-2. And that is -- 48 --
what did he do to his --
MR. VOELKEL: I wanted to add on there, what
Franklin has just said is correct. 49 has been divided into
two 5-acre tracts; it existed as a 10-acre tract. 48 is --
the adjoining property owner is replatting his lot to remove
an L.C.R.A. easement that was on his tract. If you look up
in the upper left-hand corner, as it is platted, you see
just a little bit of 48 has an easement across it. In
reality, that easement does not exist; that was done back in
the late '70's when the original plat of Kerrville Country
Estates was filed. We're adding that to it to remove the
easement from his property, and it just so happens that the
man that owns that tract is also going to purchase the
adjoining 49A-2, so he'll have all of his property properly
platted at that time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Voelkel, is this
-- is this in the ETJ?
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MR. VCELKEL: Yes, sir, it is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: City of Kerrville?
MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir, it is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you had to go
before the City to do the same thing?
MR. VOELKEL: That's correct, yes, sir. We
have gone to the City with a public hearing, which has
already taken place, and the plat has been approved by the
City.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to point out
here that this is just one of the most simple things that we
ever do. The guy's takinq a line out and adding a line in
on his own property. We have caused him months of work to
do, and he not only has the expense ~f coming to this
government body, but he goes over to the City, and it's a
simple -- moving a line.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cost him a lot.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Costing him a lot of
money and time. And it's -- you know, it's right out there
on the edge of being insane. I mean, this is crazy. We're
actually causing people to spend money for absolutely no
reason.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How can we fix that?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's supposed to
be fixed. You know, the law allows us to -- the City and
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the County to get together to make -- we can make a decision
whether we want to go to the City or go with the County so
they don't have -- a person doesn't have to go to both
bodies. And we have asked the City to put something
together, and I just -- I don't know what -- what has
happened to it. But, my god, this is a --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we had a
state-imposed deadline of a year ago to have accomplished
that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did.
COMMISSIONER BALD6'JIN: But it's a travesty
what we're causing our citizens to go through to maintain
their own property. I don't get it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the City/County
part, you know, needs to be worked out; I think will get
worked out at one point, but the other part of it, it's
state law.
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
it's a -- I mean, the State
trying to get rid of a lot
made this type of situation
with a -- created a, quote,
process, but it still costs
COMMISSIONER
BALDWIN: I understand.
LETZ: And I agree with you,
has made platting -- you know,
~f loopholes that do exist. They
very difficult. We have gone
abbreviated, quick, I mean,
a lot of money.
BALDWIN: It does. Mr. Evans

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has been -- been really nice, by some standards. I've seen
-- I've seen the red rise up his neck a couple of times, and
it's been fairly unpleasant in my office several times.
But, nevertheless, he's agreed with us and he's done
absolutely everything that the County Engineer's office has
asked him to do, and my hat's off to him. I would not go
through all this. But thank you for doing that. But -- so
let's don't keep the guy any longer than we have to.
MR. VOELKEL: Let me make one other comment,
if I could, Commissioner, and it's just kind of added on to
the frustrations. Again, as I've stated, the City has
approved the plat with a public hearing. They have had the
films to sign. I went over this morning to get those, and
they are not signed by the City yet. I think what they
would like to do is get the County to get it signed, bring
it back t~ trlem. I'm not sure if they're worried about who
goes first or who goes last, but you will notice the films
this morning have their signatures to get, even though they
have been approved by them. So, just a little bit more
frustration. That would be more personal, I guess, than
Mr -- what Mr. Evans has been through.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be happy to show
some leadership here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have one quick
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COI~IMISSICNER BALDWIN: No, no more questions.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the record --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have to hold them
to the end of the meeting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the record, the
easement has been officially abandoned; is that correct?
MR. VOELKEL: That's correct yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDW-N: Judge, I move that
we -- for approval of the final revision of plat, Tract
Number 48 and 49A of Kerrville Country Estates, Section Two.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded by Commissioners Baldwin and Letz, respectively,
that we approve the final revision of the plat for Tract
Number 48 and 49A, Kerrville Country Estates. Any further
discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Evans, how long
have we been at this?
MR. EVANS: I've been actually trying to buy
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it since last May.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Last May.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for your
patience.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, do you want to
take our morning break now? Since our next item is timed at
10:30, and I don't know if we have time to do the Stablewood
Springs between now and 10:30.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would be nice,
though, to push it on through.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's a good suggestion,
Commissioner Letz. Why don't we recess until 10:30. At
that time, then, we'll take those matters up.
(Recess taken from 10:15 a.m. to 10:30 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. If we could, please,
let's come back to order, reconvene the meeting scheduled
for Monday, April 14th. Next item on the agenda is a public
hearing, so I will -- after returning to order, I will now
recess the Commissioners Court meeting and convene a public
hearing on the revision of the plat for Site 15 of J.L.
Nichols Subdivision in Precinct 4.
(The regular Commissioners Court meeting was
closed at 10:31 a.m., and a public hearing
was held in open court, as follows:)
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P U B L I C H E A R I N G
JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the
public hearing that wishes to be heard with respect to a
plat revision of Site 15 of J.L. Nichols Subdivision, which
lies in Precinct 4? There was notice given of the meeting
of the public hearing. Is there anybody that wishes to be
heard on that"? Any member of the public?
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Seeing no indication of any
desire of public participation, I will close the public
hearing for the revision of plat of Site 15 of J.L. Nichols
Subdivision, Precinct 4, and I will reconvene the
Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for April 14th.
(The public hearing was concluded at 10:32
a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court
meeting was reopened.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Item 2.7, consider for
approval the final revision of plat, Site 15 of J.L. Nichols
subdivision, lying in Precinct 4. Mr. Johnston?
MR. JOHNSTCN: Reccmmend approval. This was
a division o` a 5.27-acre tract into a 1.97- and a 3.25-acre
tract. It's on a public water system.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Johnston, this
is -- this is outside the Kerrville ETJ?
MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, but it's in the Ingram
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's in the
Ingram --
MR. JOHNSTON: Ingram has not signed, but
they have an excuse that their meeting's tomorrow night, and
this is on their agenda.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions for
Mr. Johnston on this plat?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we grant
final approval of plat for Site 15 of J.L. Nichols
Subdivision.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion has beer. made and
seconded by Commissioners Nicholson and Williams,
respectively, that we approve the final plat -- final
revision. of plat for Site 15 of J.L. Nichols Subdivision
located in Precinct 4. Is there any further discussion?
Being none, all in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you,
sir. Want me to sign off on it now?
(Discussion off the record.)
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MR. JOHNSTON: Do you want the owner's
representative to take the plat to the -- I think he's on
the Ingram City Council meeting to have it signed by them
tomorrow, so you can let him have them record it, or you'll
record it or whatever.
MR. BRINKMAN: I'll take it to them, yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. The next item on
the agenda is 2.8, consider the final plat approval of
Stablewood Springs Ranch Condominium in Precinct 4. I would
note that we have a number of participation forms that have
been forwarded to me in connection with this matter, and I
would first call upon the County Engineer, and then after
his presentation, I will go through the public participation
requests.
MR. JOHNSTON: I think the questions we had
during the preliminary plat have been resolved. An issue
came up about having four detention ponds that were outside
the subdivision -- outside the control of the subdivision,
and that's been resolved by a matter of an easement granted
to the owners -- homeowners of the subdivision, that they
may at any time enter those ponds for the purpose of
maintenance if the owner of that land does not maintain them
according to their current condition. Did I state that
right? Okay. That was the issue of access to those ponds.
The -- we had a drainage study prepared by Domingues and
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Associates. It has been reviewed by three other engineering
companies. I think they're -- the comments are in your
packet. I think that was the major exception. There were a
couple other -- other items that I think we have, being
maintenance on the existing berms, I believe, in the
subdivision. And that -- I think with the exception of
that, they all kind of agree. So I think that the matter of
drainage has been resolved, whereby the entire -- the entire
10C-year frequency drainage of the -- of the tract is
retained in holding detention ponds, then slowly released.
So, actually, the post-construction runoff is less than the
preconstruction runoff. And the construction of those
detention ponds and berms are covered under a letter of
credit, so they'd he inspected and guaranteed, whereas the
road paving is also a letter of credit which they have
turned in to our office.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question about
something you just said.
MR. JOHNSTON: Mm-hmm?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Runoff is less
post-construction than preconstruction. Do you mean that?
Or do you mean the rate of the runoff?
MR. JOHNSTON: Let me ask the experts. It's
also -- it's the rate and the -- the total quantity of water
that's retained, and --
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MR. DOMINGUES: The cubic feet per second of
water.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the rate of
the runoff, not the runoff itself.
MR. DOMINGUES: It's the quantity of the
water.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Quantity or the flow?
MR. DOMINGUES: Well, the flow is all built
into that, but that is the quantity of water that comes off
of the hills.
MR. JOHNSTON: I think he's correct. The
cubic feet per second is the rate of flow, not the velocity.
It's the rate.
JUDGE TINLEY: The total amount of runoff
that wi~l be handled will be the same, cr possibly a little
bit more because of impervious ground cover, but the rate of
flow as it goes off the property by virtue of the
construction of these detention ponds and -- and release
mechanisms will be less. Is that a correct statement?
MR. DOMINGUES: Well, it's the cubic feet,
quantity of water that is -- that is --
JUDGE TINLEY: The flow rate.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's ttie flew rate.
MR. DOMINGUES: The flow of water.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.

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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. DOMINGUES: It's a -- about 50 percent
less going through the ponds on a two-year frequency, and
about 10 percent less going through a 100-year frequency.
7T7DGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Based upon
-- you indicated that these detention facilities were
actually off-site, not within the site?
MR. JOHNSTON: Four
them are on-site, but four of them
JUDGE TINLEY: Have
documents been drafted and signed,
signature for this maintenance mon
those in place, ready to go?
MR. JACKSON: We're
of them were. Some of
are off-site.
the necessary legal
or are ready for
itoring situation? Are
ready to sign those today
as soon as this session is over.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. They've been
approved by all the parties in interest that have been
involved in this?
MR. JACKSON: I've sent them to everybody,
yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you.
MR. JACKSON: In fact, what we would want to
have happen is the actual plat that we're now going to
record be held until those documents are recorded. I
understand you want to see those signatures, and I'm
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prepared to do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good. Thank you. Appreciate
that, Mr. Jackson. Anybody have anything?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I'd like to
say that this has been a long process, and I know all the
parties have been frustrated with it, and I admire and
appreciate the work that's been done lately by all the
parties, the developers, Mr. Johnston, attorney Jackson, and
the neighbors of Stablewood to try to bring this to a
resoluticn where everybody will be at least satisfied that
they're going to be able to live together, and thank y'all
for working or. that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further of Mr.
Johnston by anybody on the Court? Thank you. Mr. Jackson,
did ycu nave any more comments you would want to make"?
MR. JACKSON: I'm just here to answer any
questions that there might be. I think the one significant
thing since our last meeting is we've gotten the signatures,
as you'll see; we put them on there. We're using the
disclaimer that you suggested. That's been submitted and
obviously approved by Frank, and so we're straight on all
that process. We're going to record a plat after all those
discussions and tell the folks that they need to read all
these pieces of paper that we talked about. But I have
nothing to add, unless there's a question that I can respond
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to.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right, good. Thank you
for making yourself available. Ms. Mary Hart Frost?
MS. FROST: Yes, thank you. My name is Mary
Hart Frost, and my husband and I are owners of a home on
Lots 27 and 28 in the Bumble Bee Hills Subdivision along
Bumblebee Creek. I also share ownership of property with my
cousins at Pleasure Hill, which is a family development
established in the 1920's. Both of these properties abut
the proposed Stablewood Springs Ranch Condominium
subdivision, and have been adversely affected by stormwater
runoff flooding during the road building and home site
preparation of this development. I started attending
Commissioners Court meetings in February of 2002 in order to
learn about the Kerr County Subdivision Rules and
Regulations and to be an informed representative for
numerous cousins, friends, and neighbors who own property at
Pleasure Hill and in Bumble Bee Hills regarding water
availability issues and stormwater runoff protection issues.
I also began to attend meetings of the Upper Guadalupe River
Authority and the Headwaters Groundwater Conservation
District to educate myself about ways to protect Bumblebee
Creek, the Guadalupe River, and the Tzil~ity Aquifer from
pollution: and depletion. As more subdivisions like
Stablewood Springs Ranch will be proposed for development in
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west Kerr County in the coming months and years, I plan to
continue tc attend these meetings and stay informed on ways
to protect this beautiful and unique environment in our
Texas hill country.
We want to thank the Court, including former
County Judge Fred Henneke and former precinct chairman --
Precinct 4 Commissioner Larry Griffin, Judge Pat Tinley,
Commissioner Dave Nicholson, Commissioner Jonathan Letz,
Commissioner Bi11 Williams, and Commissioner Buster Baldwin;
also, County Attorney David Motley and Commissioners Court
Coordinator Thea Sovil for their accessibility, attention,
and rulings during this platting process. We also want to
thank the County Clerk's office and staff and Kerr County
Road and Bridge Engineer Franklin Johnson and staff, Truby
Hardin and Iva Glass, for their cooperation in providing
access to and copies of open meeting records regarding the
platting of the Stablewood Springs Ranch Subdivision. We
wish to express appreciation to attorney David Jackson and
representatives of Stablewood Springs Ranch for meeting with
us on Wednesday, April 9th, 2003, at the Kerr County Road
and Bridge district office, to discuss concerns about the
hydrology issues regarding stormwater runoff. Mr. Jackson
provided us a copy to review of the drainage easement he
drafted for Ponds 1 through 4.
For the record -- okay. For the record, we
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would like to state that we still have substantial concerns
about Ponds 1 through 4 being part of the drainage detention
system for Stablewood Springs Ranch Subdivision. This is
because it is our contention that one of the detention ponds
is in the 100-year floodplain, and all four detention ponds
are on private property owned by Mr. Tom Fatjo, Jr., and are
not included within the boundaries of the platted
subdivision. Thank you again for the opportunity to appear
before you today and to represent my family, friends, and
neighbors in our concerns about this development. Some of
them are present here this morning, and I would like to
recognize them by asking them to stand. Thanks very much
for coming this morning. Do any of you have any questions
for me?
JUDGE TINLEY: Gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any
questions, but I want to say thank you. This is -- you're a
perfect example of the way government should work.
MS. FROST: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll echo that. Thank
you. We've had many discussions on this for a couple of
years, and I appreciate all -- I appreciate your concern for
the environment ar.d the community where you live.
MS. FROST: You'll be seeing me more. I'm
not going away.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute, let's
rethink this a little bit. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Frost, we appreciate your
being here and your diligence, and -- and you've gone to
considerable difficulty just to round up this family and
drag them in here.
MS. FROST: That's right. That's right.
JUDGE TINLEY: You've got a pretty good group
there with you. We appreciate all of y'all being here.
Thank you very much.
MS. FROST: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mary Hart Frost and
I share an interest in good water management, and we've
considered starting carpooling, we go to so many of the same
meetings.
MS. FROST: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty funny.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mrs. Catherine Fox. You wish
to be heard?
MS. FOX: Yes, thank you. My name is
Catherine Fox. My family and my parents both own property
adjacent to Stablewood Springs Ranch, as well as riverfront
creek property located less than 1 mile downstream from the
development on the confluence of Bumblebee Creek and the
Guadalupe River. I concur with Mrs. Frost. Thanks to all
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parties who have been involved in the process of platting
for Stablewocd. With regard to last Wednesday's April 9th,
2003 meeting, which Mrs. Frost has already mentioned, all
parties present agreed to the following: Number one, that
the development's drainage facilities, including all
impoundments, will be inspected upon completion by the
County. Number two, that the elements of the drainage plan
be included in the Letter of Credit put up by the
development. Number three, that a legal perpetual drainage
easement contract is in place between the development and
the adjacent property owner on whose property Detention
Ponds 1 through 4 are located. Number four, that all
impoundments, both within and outside the development, will
be perpetually maintained. Number five, that debris
protectors or trash traps, as they are commonly called, will
be in place on Impoundments 7 and 8. Therefore, we formally
ask that the Court approve the final plat of Stablewood
Springs Ranch, only on the condition that these agreed upon
assurances are met.
Furthermore, for the record, I would like to
state that although the County Engineer, Franklin Johnston,
the hydrology study formulators, Domingues and Associates,
and the developer, T.J.F. Ranch, Incorporated, Tcm Fatjo,
are apparently satisfied with Detention Ponds 1 through 4,
my family and several other neighbors owning property
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downstream on Bumblebee Creek are not. Our concerns remain.
Number one, the ponds are not within the platted area.
Number two, one of the ponds is located within the 100-year
floodplain. Number three, the hydrology study does not
address Ponds 1 through 4 in enough detail, especially given
the fact that the ponds already contain some water. As
these ponds channel water into the Bumblebee Creek floodway,
then through the 100-year floodplain, and then through a
nearby subdivision that is downstream, and then directly
into the Guadalupe River, all within a distance of less than
1 mile, we firmly believe that our concerns are not
unfounded. The power and velocity, or rate, as you refer to
it, of the stormwater during a rapid flood event in the
Texas hill country is something that many an individual has
underestimated. May God protect us all during the next
100-year flood event.
Finally, we hope our concerns prove to be
unfounded. We are grateful that Stablewood Springs Ranch
has been downsized to the present 17 home sites, as this
will be helpful to some degree during the past years. We
welcome those that purchase undivided interests in the ranch
to west Kerr County officially. We feel certain that they
will eventually fall in love with the area that we call
home. I would also like to address a comment that
Mr. Domingues made earlier. He stated that the quantity of
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water will be less according to the hydrology study.
However, the rate or velocity will not be less before it
leaves the development, because the impoundments on the west
side -- because the impoundments that control that water are
not within the platted area. The drainage easement legal
document that David Jackson provided us with does give sorue
protection, but hypothetically -- excuse me -- there is
still room for certain things to go wrong, and that is why
we have accepted every other aspect of Stablewood Springs
Ranch except those four impoundments. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Frost, the conditions that
you mentioned --
MS. FOX: Mrs. Fox. Frost, Fox.
(Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Fox.
MS. FOX: Yes, sir?
JUDGE TINLEY: The conditions that you
mentioned, that you indicated that there was agreement --
a bargain struck, as it were, between you and your family
and the attorney for the developer and the developers --
MS. FOX: And the County Engineer.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- and the County Engineer,
all parties in interest, those are the same ones that you
heard Mr. Franklin Johnston indicate that had been resolved;
is that correct?
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MS. FOX: Some of them. He did not mention
that the County would inspect, and he also did not mention
the drainage traps, the trash traps or debris collectors
that will be placed on Impoundments 7 and 8.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me ask Mr. Jackson.
You heard Mrs. Fox' conditions as outlined when she just
addressed the Court, did you not, sir?
MR. JACKSON: I did.
JUDGE TINLEY: And is it your understanding,
as the attorney representing the developer, that the
developer has agreed to those contingencies and conditions?
MR. JACKSON: Yes, absolutely.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
MS. FOX: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Fox. I
appreciate it. And my apologies for doing the same thing
again.
MS. FOX: That's okay. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Andrew Bachofen?
MR. BACHOFEN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that correct, sir?
MR. BAC'HOFEN: Yes, sir. I'm Andrew
Bachofen. I live at 173 Bearskin Trail, Kerr County. I
also have property off Pleasure Hi11. I have one question,
and that is, is there anything in these documents to state

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that these impoundment ponds will be empty except for runoff
water? And is there any -- are you going to be inspecting
these ponds to ir_sure that is taking place in the future?
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Johnston, do you have an
answer to that, the gentleman's questions?
MR. JOHNSTON: All the ponds on the -- on
the -- in the subdivision are empty -- normally empty. The
three that they've been talking about that are off-site --
four that are off-site have a normal flow of water in them,
and the -- the retainage in those areas is from the normal
flow of water to the top of the spillways. Is that right?
MR. DOMINGUES: Yes, sir.
MR. JOHNSTON: That's the retainage area. It
will flow out through the drainpipe at a controlled rate.
JUDGE TINLEY: They're bottom-draining -- all
of the four off-site ponds are bottom-draining ponds? Is
that what you're telling me?
MR. JOHNSTON: There's an overflow pipe that
maintains the steady level, the normal flow. And the pond
will fill up during a heavy rain, and then it will go back
down to that level through the drainage pipe. It's not at
the bottom; it's through the -- what, a certain heighth on
the dam?
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subdivision, Your Honor, are ones that will not have any
water in them.
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JUDGE TINLEY: All right.
MR. DOMINGUES: Bottom-draining pond, yes,
JUDGE TINLEY: But the off-site ponds have
a -- have a spillway control, but there's also a drainage
mechanism, below the spillway to assist in -- in releasing
water?
MR. DOMINGUES: Yes, sir. There -- there is
a pipe -- a pipe on one, and then also there is a valid
drainage area, and then there's also the top ~f the area, so
it starts going through the pipe first in a flood. Then it
goes through the -- the weir-type area, and then if
necessary goes over the top, okay? And all of that is
retained.
JUDGE TINLEY: So I think the answer to the
gentleman's question is that, even in normal times, if
there's been significant runoff into the pond, there will be
probably some water left remaining in there up to the level
of the lowest pipe. Is that what you're telling me?
MR. DOMINGUES: Right. Yes, sir, up to the
bottom of the level of the lower pipe.
MR. JOHNSTON: Those four off-stream
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detention ponds, they have water in them normally at all
times, right? Detention area is from the normal level to
the top of the overflow.
JUDGE TINLEY: Does that answer your
question, sir?
MR. BACHOFEN: I have one further question.
Any other source of water going into any of these ponds
other than rain runoff?
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. JACKSON: Spring water, I guess.
MR. BACHOFEN: That's rain runoff.
JUDGE TINLEY: Just normal runoff?
MR. BACHOFEN: Yes. Is there any other
source of water? Is there any pumped water from the river
or any wells going into these?
MR. JACKSON: No.
MR. JOHNSTON: Four ponds aren't maintained
by a pumping system.
MR. JACKSON: The wells aren't used, and the
Guadalupe matter has been turned off completely for several
months. I just wanted to add that the easement document
requires that the water level be at that -- that pipe stuff.
In other words, the owner has that responsibility. Plus the
question was inspections. The owners have been given the
right, obviously, to go look, and if the owner doesn't
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maintain those facilities -- water level as well as
facilities themselves, then the owners can come in and
repair it, just to the same extent as they could on any of
the other drainage facilities on their own pump.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Jackson. Does
that sufficiently address all of your questions, sir?
MR. BACHOFEN: Yes, sir, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good. Thank you. The next
individual that's indicated a desire to speak is Judith A.
Trolinger. Yes, ma'am. How are you this morning?
MS. TROLINGER: Good morning. I'm here as a
concerned citizen, and although I haven't been privy to all
of the chronology of what is taking place, I want my concern
also as part of the record to this. My name is Judith Ann
Trolinger. Our mailing address is Ingram. My husband and I
are owners of a home on Pleasure Hill. All of us now living
on this property are descendants of the original owners.
Our part of Pleasure Hill has been in the Trolinger family
since 1911. My father-in-law retired here in 1967. We
retired here finally in 1991. When you make the turn off of
Highway 39 onto our road, we are the third house on the
left, so we are really downhill from the proposed Stablewood
Springs Ranch Condominium Subdivision and Ponds Number 1
through 4. And, yes, we have been adversely affected by
stormwater runoff during the road building and home site
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preparation phase of this development.
Last year, a rainstorm devastated Kerrville.
We, too, had a lot of rain from that storm, but we've had
worse, but this is the first time we have ever had our home
flooded. The runoff from the various rainstorms we have had
since the development started has created a small ditch
almost the entire length of the county road. This road runs
between the drainage ditch on one side and Hughes' on the
other, and is being eroded away. This road is our only way
out of Pleasure Hill, and if it caves in, there is very
little room to rebuild. My husband and I also would like to
express appreciation to attorney David Jackson and
representatives of the Stablewood Springs Ranch for meeting
with Mary Frost and the others on Wednesday, April 9th,
2003, at the Kerr County Road and Bridge district office to
discuss concerns about the hydrology issues regarding
stormwater runoff. We were provided a copy for review of
the drainage easement Mr. Jackson drafted for Ponds 1
through 4.
For the record, we would like to state that
we still have substantial concerns about these ponds being
part of the drainage retention system for Stablewood Springs
Ranch Subdivision. This is because Pond Number 4, as I
understand it, is in the 100-year floodplain, and all four
ponds are on private property owned by Mr. Joe -- excuse me,
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Mr. Tom Fatjo, Jr., and are not included within the
boundaries of the platted subdivision. More subdivisions
like Stablewood Springs Ranch will be proposed for
development in west Kerr County in the coming months and
years. If we don't take care now, the erosion of the land
and the drain on our water supply is going to be tremendous.
Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much,
Ms. Trolinger. Those are the only individuals who have
filled out a participation form to speak on this issue.
Unless Mr. Jackson has something further to offer?
MR. JACKSON: No, Your Honor.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is there anyone else
here that, even though they may not have filled out a
participation form, desires to be heard on this particular
issue? We'd be happy to hear from you now.
MS. FOX: May I say one more thing?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, Ms. Fox.
MS. FOX: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Please come
forward.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got it right,
Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I got it right that
time. She allowed me the opportunity to redeem myself, and
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I appreciate that.
MS. FOX: Thank you, sir. I just wanted to
address one more thing that Mr. Domingues said a moment ago.
He said that a drainage valley area channels the water,
referring to the water from the four impoundments. That
drainage valley area is an unnamed tributary, an
intermittent unnamed tributary that channels iiit~ the other
intermittent unnamed tributary commonly known as Bumblebee
Creek, which also has another intermittent unnamed tributary
commonly known as Brushy Creek, which channels into it.
That is the bottom of the whole concern for Impoundments 1
through 4, because they have, by man's hand, been channeled
into all of that that I mentioned above. And below them,
within a very short distance, is the major large impoundment
on the development called -- I mean outside the development
on Bumblebee Creek known as the "lake" on your plat. And no
one, not even Mr. Domingues nor myself -- only God knows
exactly what will happen when we get the 100-year flood
event that decides to park itself directly to the north or
on Stablewood. And because those ponds cannot -- yes, they
can catch the quantity of water that is coming off, and
while I question, and so did Hearn Engineering, the capacity
of Pond Number 2 to some degree, that's a minor, incidental
thing. Our concern is the rate or the velocity of the water
and how fast it will come down and then go into those four
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impoundments that already contain water, and then into a dam
that is full to the top, and then into the creek. And we've
said all we have to say, and we just hope that the terrible
thing never occurs. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Fox. I'm going
to permit Mr. Domingues to respond to that, and hopefully
he'll have an answer that satisfies you.
MR. DOMINGUES: I guess one of the concerns
is velocity. Okay, let's start at the top of the hill where
the -- the slope of the land is greater than 20 percent.
Okay -- well, that's not the top. The top -- the very top
is only 6 percent, okay. Then it gradually goes off of
there, and the ground will -- will be on a 20 percent slope
approximately going down the hill, and that's the way a lot
of hills are in the hill country. There is a pond that
catches the water first, which is at a very high elevation.
Once the water goes down and catches into this pond, which
is -- I'm not sure how large the pond -- it's about
50-something feet long. The water velocity at that pond is
reduced to zero, because the pond is flat. Then it goes
down again at a 20 percent slope for a short distance, and
it is again reduced into a pond that is flat that is several
hundred feet long. So the velocity, again, of the water
going off the hill is reduced to zero, except for when you
start getting 100-year frequency floods, but the pond is so
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long, the water that gets to that pond in any flood is
really going to be zero percent or zero velocity. Then it
drops down into another pond that's a short distance, and
it's dropped again down to zero velocity. And then it goes
kind of on a flat land down to the very large pond at the
bottom, Number 4, which is 200-something feet long, and the
velocity, again, is reduced to zero. So, the time that it
takes for the water, you know, to get from the top of the
hill to the very bottom is probably at least 50 percent
shorter in time than it was previously because of the fact
that you've got so many ponds that reduces the velocity to
zero. Otherwise, it would be coming down a 20 percent slope
at that velocity all the way down to the bottom.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me ask you, if I might,
Mr. Domingues, you made the comment a little bit ago that in
a -- a two-year term, that the velocity or the flow rate --
MR. DOMINGUES: Quantity.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- would be reduced by 50 --
MR. DOMINGUES: 50 percent.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- percent.
MR. DOMINGUES: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: And then a 100-year
floodplain, a 100-year flood event, it would be reduced by
10 percent.
25 ~ MR. DOMINGUES: 10 percent, yes, sir.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Those numbers that we just
mentioned, do those apply to the flow rate as it leaves
what's denominated as the "lake" on the plat, which is
immediately adjacent to the southwest corner of the
development and leaves the Fatjo property? Would those
figures apply to the water leaving through tYiat lake
impoundment area?
MR. DOMINGUES: Right. Yes, sir, that Number
4 lake impoundment area.
MR. JOHNSTON: From the contribution from the
subdivision, right.
MR. DOMINGUES: Right. Yes, sir.
MR. JOHNSTON: Whether or not it comes in on
the other -- those other branches, it doesn't -- doesn't
address that, but this subdivision is what they're talking
about. Amount of water leaving the subdivision.
JUDGE TINLEY: But it's going to reduce the
velocity and --
MR. DOMINGUES: And the quantity.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- give you greater flow as it
leaves that lake?
MR. DOMINGUES: Yes, sir, Number 4 lake.
JUDGE TINLEY: As to whatever comes into that
series of ponds and through that -- that channel, as it may.
be, as it leaves the lake immediately adjacent to the
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southwest corner of the plat?
MR. DOMINGUES: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right.
MR. DOMINGUES: There is one thing I might
address. We talked to Stuart at Headwaters about the Number
4 pond being in a 100-year flood hazard area, which is
really a -- a drawn area, not a studied area of the FEMA,
and he indicated that there was no problem with it. And I
understand that he checked with FEMA, and FEMA said there
was no problem.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Does that
kind of clarify your question, Ms. Fox, that you had? I
know you've still got lingering questions, because until you
see that 100-year event, none of us really know. We can
make a projection based upon engineering calculations and so
forth, but until it happens, I don't think any of us are
going to know for absolute certain.
MS. FOX: Right. I'm satisfied with the way
things are. We're on the record, and if anything happens,
we --
MR. TROLINGER: Is the invitation to speak
without recording in advance still open?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it certainly is. We're
still on this item. If you'd come forward and give your
name to the reporter?
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MR. TROLINGER: Yes. John Trolinger.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Trolinger.
MS. TROLINGER: Thank you. All of these
calculations are based upon a storm cloud not over us, but
to the north of us. Now, we do have those occasions where
that happens, but more often than not the storm cloud covers
a considerably larger area, so the -- the retention ponds
will be influenced by the cloud to the north. But even
though the cloud, which normally occurs as they roll from
the gulf, will continually feed below the retention ponds
also, and so it's not -- the retention ponds are not being
fed solely from upstream, but they are being fed directly
from above and the impervious cover of the housing
development itself, and those roadways will continually
erode and roll to the south as well. So, the calculations
that have been cited are true for a very isolated storm, but
not for a typical storm. Thank ycu.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate
that. Mr. Bachofen?
MR. BACHOFEN: Yeah. I just want to state
that you can't have zero flow and have water flowing out of
the tanks. As soon as those tanks are full, you no longer
have zero flow. And we don't know how long it's going to
take to fill these tanks in case of a rain. But I agree
that these tanks have -- starting out empty, will reduce the
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amount of potential flooding along Bumblebee Creek.
JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate that. I think
Mr. Domingues' comment was that once they reach a flat
surface, from a mathematical, technical standpoint, they're
at zero. Now, that doesn't mean they're going to stay that
way, and you and I both know that they won't. But I
appreciate that.
MR. BACHOFEN: I notice that one -- one flood
reduces it by 50 percent; the other one only reduces it by
10 percent. That's 'cause all the tanks are full now.
There is probably going to be less water. And he's correct
when he says less water will be flowing out of them, because
if the rain stops, you're going to have evaporation; you're
also going to have water sinking down through the bottom of
these ponds. So, twat -- that part was correct, but as far
as saying there's no flow when water runs out of it, that's
not right.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think they meant to
indicate that it was going to just cease to flow, but that's
a good point. Mr. Johnston, I'm concerned about this
roadway that we heard talk about considerable erosion on.
Is that the County right-of-way?
MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not sure what --
MR. BACHOFEN: That's Pleasure Hill Road, and
it's been county-maintained since probably 1940, 1950.
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MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not sure what our
right-of-way is on that. I'd have to do some research. May
be one of those prescriptive easement type things. But
there is a ditch next to it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've looked at. it.
It has experienced a considerable erosion in the last year,
and we're going to go out and look at it on Wednesday.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. JOHNSTON: These retention ponds
should -- should help that. But --
JUDGE TINLEY: But the road itself is still
passable at this point?
MR. BACHOFEN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: The erosion has taken place in
the area immediately adjacent to the road?
MR. JOHNSTON: In the ditch, right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. JOHNSTON: It's not cutting into the
road.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've heard so much
erosion -- mud was coming out of that last July, it blocked
Highway 39, so the Highway Department had to come out and
clean up Highway 39 before it was passable.
JUDGE TINLEY: Because of the erosion that
took place there on that ditch?
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. So we're --
based on the best technical advice we get, we're hoping that
this will -- this problem won't occur in the future, but we
do need to address the -- any damage that's been done to the
road. And the State Highway Department is out there now
working on their part of it, and we're going to be poking
at our part of it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, if I might just
make a brief comment, I hear a lot of -- I mean, the
residents are very concerned about the 100-year floods and
that, and I think they are all very much aware that no one
knows for sure what's going to happen when that rain comes.
All we can do is, we have rules in place that we feel are
going to, you know, hopefully protect people. The eastern
part of the county has had two natural disaster floods in
the last three years, and I can assure you, we're -- I'm
very much aware that you just don't know. I mean, water
gets to a point, you know, of -- you know, one canyon gets
a -- you know, 10 inches of rain; the next canyon might not
get any. Water does some strange things; it can cut new
courses. The Guadalupe River is changing course three times
in the eastern part of the county right now. So, we fully
understand that we don't know exactly how the flood's going
to impact you, if it ever comes to your area. All we've
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done is try to have rules in place that try to protect you
to the best of our ability, and that's what we've tried to
do. And it seems to me -- I mean, the developer and the
residents are all, you know, pretty much in agreement that
at least we have got to that threshold, and we just hope and
pray that the rains that we've had in the eastern county
recently don't go to the west, because we hope to spare
y'all that kind of devastation.
MR. JOHNSTON: And one other thing, too. I
think we ought to keep in mind that -- or keep in mind the
scope of what these studies cover. They're not covering a
whole area. They don't guarantee it won't rain, you know,
outside the subdivision in some other branch of these, you
know, tributaries. It's only over this particular
subdivision we're talking about.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's all we can
regulate and apply.
MR. JOHNSTON: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: In other words, that which the
developer is obligated to take into account.
MS. TROLINGER: May I -- this is
extemporaneous this time; I don't have notes on this. I
guess, basically, one of the things that really concerns us
is that, no, we can't predict the 100-year flood. I think
we came close to it last year in Kerrville. '87 came --
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came pretty darn close. And this county road that is now on
Pleasure Hill was the original county road that horseshoed
around that road, horseshoed right around out to the road,
the -- there by the Bumblebee Creek bridge.
MS. FOX: That's never been a county road all
the way.
MS. TROLINGER: Well, or part of it. Well,
I'm going from what -- what family tradition has said, it's
part of the original county road. No, we can't predict
floods, but it's incredible what water can do, and people
still to this day do not respect that. But what's really
kind of sad about all of this -- and the development of our
county is growing. The assumption is on all of this that
this water is going to know, okay, we've got to run over and
go through these -- these four or eight ponds. Well, come
on. We're going to have houses out there. 'I'he rain is
going to pour off of those -- off of those roofs and off of
that ground. And when it rains, that -- our road turns in
almost to a river. And because that's our only way out, we
can't go anywhere, which is not a real big problem; we don't
mind being stranded at home. But we've had floods out there
a lot of times in which this drainage ditch, which I
understand is going to be part of the drainage system, fills
very rapidly, because it's not that big. But the main
concern is that water takes its own path, and it's not all
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going to run into these ponds. We're already having
problems. As I mentioned, with the rain that we had last
year, our home, for the first time in a hundred years,
flooded. Now, fortunately, it -- I was able to clean the
carpeting and it didn't do tremendous damage that we know
of. But this is why we've been so concerned. And we
appreciate Stablewood and all. It's taken a long time, but
they have downsized, and they are -- seem to begin to
realize our concerns. All this, as we've known from -- from
the way roads are constructed, it looks good on paper. Oh,
we've got -- we've got all these ponds for the runoff.
Well, tell the water that. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Trolinger. The
gentleman over here. Yes, sir?
MR. VLASEK: Yes, sir. My name is George
Vlasek. I've lived in spots right behind that place for 52
years. I don't know -- I'm sure Buster recalls the floods
in 1959.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do well, sir.
MR. VLASEK: And it rained all over, but it
rained up the north fork, up Boneyard and all up in there,
and that's what c_.aused it, and we caught hell. But then you
say, well, this is a 100-year type flood. That's it. Well,
will it wait another hundred years? In 1960, it rained at
Bumblebee Hill, and then Comfort, all those places caught
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hell. But that's what somebody brought up. We can't allude
that, okay, we had this big flood; we got to wait a long
time. Just like the freeze we had a number of years back; I
think it was about -- back in the '80's. The river froze
over; you could walk across it in places, and everybody
said, well, that just happens every once in a while. The
next winter everybody says it will be a mild winter. We had
14 inches of snow. So we can't deduce when it's going to
rain, where it's going to rain. But everyone must know why
we are concerned, because we've experienced it. That place
had a mat on it then. Well, mats are important. These
developers go in and they burn all that stuff off. They
ought to make them grind the stuff up, leave it on the
ground so that rain water can be absorbed and gradually
leaven with that mat on the ground. I had rocks next to my
house with mud out of Bumblebee, with cedar on there and
everything else as big as softballs, and too late to plant
grass, so I planted oats, barley, wheat, anything that would
do so we could get around. So, that's why we're concerned.
It's just not something that we've set up at night and think
about it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it, Mr. Vlasek.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to make a
comment, and Mr. Vlasek actually made my comments and I
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appreciate that; that, you know, this -- these words of
"100-year floodplain," you know, we think, well, it's going
to be a hundred years before we get one. I mean, it
could -- there's a rain coming in tonight or tomorrow, I
think. I mean, it could happen right now. No, I'm not
wishing that. (Laughter.) At all. Do need a little
shower. But the 100-year floodplain, I think -- and -- you
know, and 40 ponds are not going to do any good.
AUDIENCE: That's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Anything to it. I
mean, you know, the only concern I really have on this thing
is this -- this pond -- Pond 4 being outside of the
subdivision and -- and being in the floodplain. I don't
know that -- I mean, it's not a big deal. I don't know why
U.G.R.A. would get involved; it has nothing to do with it.
I guess the floodplain deal. But, you know, if we get -- if
we get a rain like what they're talking about, it's -- you
know, those ponds are not going to help in any way, anyway.
But -- and my last point is that we can bring all the FEMA
maps here that we want. I'm still going to call George
Vlasek when I need advice on what's going on with that river
and how much rain we get. I trust Mr. Vlasek a lot more
than I do a FEMA map, I can tell you that. That's all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Send money.
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MR. VLASEK: And I'll interject something,
please. The phenomenon that causes all these massive
downpours in the hill country, according to the people in
the know -- I didn't figure it out -- when conditions are
right, usually in the fall -- October, watch out -- and at
other times, we have water coming off the coastal plain in
the form of heavily laden clouds with moisture, and they
roll and get to the Balcones Escarpment and they roll up and
get up into a phenomenon that just stays over us. And if we
get a triggering mechanism like a cold front that comes down
that's not too strong, all of that stuff milks down on us.
MS. FROST: I just want to make one more
comment, and that is that I hope that what you are hearing
is that we need to be much more careful about the kinds of
developments that we allow to come into west Kerr County,
because that's where I'm concerned. And I don't know about
your area, but I hope that all of you, and anyone else who
has any kind of authority or responsibility for these kind
of subdivisions coming into our Texas hill country, our Kerr
County, where the topography is very unique -- and you can't
really do a hydrology study that's going to be accurate, so
I'm just asking that we be more careful about letting a
subdivision like this come in with 5,000 square feet --
5,000-square-foot homes, and 5,000-square-foot roofs for
that to come off of. Thank you.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I do have one
question along -- while Mary's still at the podium. Mary,
you and Mrs. Fox both stated your concern about the ponds,
the detention ponds, being outside the platted subdivision,
but you didn't give a reason. I'll ask the question. Is
your concern -- does your concern have to do with the
dynamics ~r the functioning of the ponds, or does it have
more to do with the maintenance of the ponds?
MS. FROST: Both. If they had to do a
hydrology study that did not include those four ponds, it
would be a very different hydrology study. In other words,
if all of the detention ponds were contained within the
boundaries of the subdivision, the study that they turned in
would be inaccurate. So I have concerns about both. In
other words, you know, I -- I don't believe that those ponds
will do what they're designed to do, and so there's a
maintenance problem because it's not on the property. But,
basically, those detention ponds should all be within the
boundary of that subdivision.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Bachofen? Let's try and
work on Pleasure Hill Road?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sir?
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MR. BACHOFEN: When did you say you were
going to have people come out and look at and work on
Pleasure Hill Road? I'll be there to meet them.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The road
administrator and I are going to go look at it on Wednesday
morning, meeting at 8 o'clock.
MR. BACHOFEN: TYiank you. I'll make sure if
I'm not there, we'll have somebody there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
MR. BACHOFEN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any breakfast or
coffee involved, I can go along. (Laughter.)
AUDIENCE: Krispy Kreme donuts.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're meeting at the
Dam Cafe at 8:00 if you want to be there, Mr. Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll be damned. Let's
vote. I want to vote on something.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Te11 me what you want
to vote on.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll make a motion
we approve the final plat plan for Stablewood Springs Ranch
Condominium --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- Subdivision.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
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seconded by Commissioners Nicholson and Baldwin,
respectively, that we approve the final plat of Stablewood
Springs Ranch Condominiums located in Precinct 4. Any
further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Next
item is to consider and discuss and take appropriate action
to approve the use of Flat Rock Lake Park for a bike rally
on June 20th through the 22nd. Commissioner Nicholson.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is a bike rally
that we've enjoyed before, but the first time that they've
stated they'd use the Flat Rick Lake Park for the rally.
Previously they used the -- the Ag Barn, and the -- the
escalating cost of the Ag Barn drove them to ask for an
alternative, less expensive place. That's -- so I'm not
sure this sort of thing requires Commissioners Court
approval. I did talk to Mr. Holekamp, and he's worked with
these people before, and he's aware of their plans and he's
fine with this, so I'm recommending that we grant approval
for them to use Flat Rock Lake Park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question
that has to do with the use of electricity. Not the use of
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the park; that's fine. I was under the impression that the
Chili Appreciation folks are the ones that put the meter in
on that pole where we're going to someday have a restroom,
and that being the case, who's going to be responsible for
the cost of that power?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner, after
I put that in there, I learned that they were bringing
generators, so I'm not sure that will even be an issue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I, as well -- I don't
know that it requires court order or approval-type thing,
but -- but the information is fantastic. You know, if we
just moved forward with it, we would have never known that
it was going on. I appreciate you telling us about that,
number one. And then, number two, this group is making a --
according to your notes here, making a donation to the
Sheriff's Department, someplace inside his department, and I
really appreciate that. That's neat.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We had -- as you
probably saw if you were out and about, we had bike rallies
this weekend. We have them pretty often. They're good
people; they leave a lot of money in Kerr County.
JUDGE TINLEY: There were a number of them
this past weekend. They provide high-dollar pieces of
equipment to various counties.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we give
permission to use the Flat Rock Lake Park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded by Commissioners Nicholson and Williams that we
grant approval for the use of Flat Rock Lake Park for a bike
rally on June 20th through 22nd of this year. Any further
discussion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. How many --
how many bikers are likely to attend this rally?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Joseph, have you
got an estimate?
MR. JOSEPH: My name is John Joseph; I'm the
one that's going to put the rally on. On the first rally,
from 500 to 1,000. The rally that I went to -- the une that
we had here last year in the Ag Barn went into, like, 1,100
or 1,200, and no problems whatsoever. No complaints.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My -- the reason I was
asking it is -- two. One, and I -- I was obviously putting
it on, making us aware of the needs to make sure the
Sheriff's Department is aware -- and I'm sure they are,
'cause they're making a donation to them -- about the rally.
So, you know, from an increased traffic standpoint in that
area. And the other one is trash. We don't have a --
there's really not a --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not many trash --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not many trash cans, and
very small trash cans over there, and it dumps over into the
Ag Barn. So, we need to make sure that there are additional
trash receptacles there, whether it's -- I mean, my
preference would probably be if y'all go to B.F.I. to put
them there -- up there just for the weekend.
MR. JOSEPH: We can do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the County doesn't
have to bear that expense, which we really don't have it in
our budget to take care of that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And port-a-pottys.
MR. JOSEPH: We'll take care of that.
Everything will be taken care of. As far as electricity, we
did need the one pole that was there, and the only thing
that would be for is a stage. Musicians, with their
insurance, they don't -- their insurance won't cover the
generator surge into their equipment. They needed a pole.
We will pay for that electricity. Whatever they can --
we'll have them read the meter before, read it after.
However -- whatever it takes, we'll --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would suggest you
contact Karl Buechler of the Chili Appreciation Society,
because they're putting on their big Easter event in the
park this weekend, I believe.
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MR. JOSEPH: Karl's the one that suggested us
using it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I'm not mistaken,
they put that meter in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They put it in, but it's
the County's meter, 'cause we --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I hope it would be the
County's meter.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I talked to Mr.
Holekamp about it. He didn't say it wasn't the County's
meter.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I
honestly don't know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's the County's
meter; we put money into it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, we talked about
that, whether we thought with this kind of -- this kind of
attendance, it wouldn't take much to put a cap on the
donation to the Sheriff's Department to cover electricity
and cleanup and everything else.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Glenn Holekamp
would know whether it's our meter.
MR. JOSEPH: We will also have a committee of
ten people that will be doing the cleanup.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
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MR. JOSEPH: We may not pick up every
cigarette, but we're going to try.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In your opening
comments, you indicated that there may be more than one of
these?
MR. JOSEPH: I would like to do it yearly,
yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yearly, like next
year?
MR. JOSEPH: Annually, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not twice this year?
MR. JOSEPH: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. You don't have
to explain any more. That's good.
MR. JOSEPH: The reason that we are trying to
do this is because the Ag Barn -- they went way up on the
price, and --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's those people that
are managing that thing. I mean, you know, they're called
the Commissioners Court, and you just -- you can't trust
them any more.
MR. JOSEPH: Something about they didn't get
the vote, right?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Didn't get this --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a tough time
controlling them.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to increase
it some more.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. You think the
rent's high this year? Wait till next year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's why I bring up
the -- I'm glad you have volunteers willing to put out your
own trash cans, because we need to -- we just need to make
sure it doesn't cost the County any money. I know you put
money back into the Sheriff's Department and into -- you're
spending money, and we appreciate that, but we don't have a
whole lot budgeted for trash pickup and things of that
nature in that park.
MR. JOSEPH: We'll take care of it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you, Mr.
Joseph.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we vote?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a motion and
second, I believe, on the table.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we have a motion on the
floor that's been seconded, and as we were proceeding to
vote, we had a question. So, I'll now -- if there's not any
further questions, all in favor of the motion, signify by
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raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item
is to consider and discuss the appointment to AACOG Rural
Public Transportation Advisory Committee. If the Court will
recall, we -- with the cooperation of the media, when we
were so fortunate in getting a couple of appointments that
we got earlier to the Senior Citizens Advisory Committee, I
think it was called, and we had extraordinarily good luck
getting some citizen interest in that, we then asked for the
media's cooperation for the Rural Public Transportation
Advisory Committee, and I believe I saw something on that.
That's my recollection, at least. And they were kind enough
to go out and beat the bushes and beat the drum for us, but
I've not been made aware of any citizen that wanted on that.
And Commissioner Williams indicated the willingness to serve
on that committee as Kerr County's representative, and so
that's where we are at this point. He's indicating the
willingness to do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: With the lack of anybody
else stepping forward, I'll make a motion to appoint
Commissioner Williams.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Motion has been made and
seconded by Commissioners Letz and Nicholson that
Commissioner Bill Williams be appointed to the AACOG Rural
Public Transportation Advisory Committee. Is there any
further discussion or questions?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which requires
letter from the County Judge to Mr. Notzon?
JUDGE TINLEY: And assuming the Court takes
affirmative action, why, I will write that letter and we'll
get that done. A11 in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item
is to consider and discuss authorizing the advertisement of
Request for Proposals for architectural or engineering
services for the design and/or construction alternatives or
the repairs, renovation, rehabilitation, and/or construction
of facilities at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, and
cost estimates for each of such alternatives. I put this on
the agenda as a result of the workshop which we recently
held, and that's where I saw we ended up as a stopping
point. And so it's now before the Court on -- does the
Court want to proceed to solicit proposals for the
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engineering/architectural design services and those cost
estimates?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, is the answer.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, from -- the
question I have, I guess, is what are we requesting
specifically?
JUDGE TINLEY: We will request proposals for
engineering or architectural design services to study what
we've got out there, within the parameters that we've
discussed, and give us the alternatives that are available
to us; what we can salvage, what we can't salvage, and the
cost estimates on each of these alternatives. But first
they would make a proposal to us as to what the charge to
this county would be for coming up with that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the criteria for
our selection?
JUDGE TINLEY: The criteria for our selection
is -- it would be they'll submit their proposals and the
Court will select whichever proposal they deem to be the
most appropriate.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm asking,
are we hiring the architectural firm that we're going to be
with for the next year, or --

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JUDGE TINLEY: No. We will -- we will be
asking them to submit proposals on what they would charge
Kerr County to do this work. Come up with the -- with the
various alternatives that we have available to us out there
and what the cost will be. Definitive cost estimates.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not trying to be
difficult on this, but I'm trying to figure out what we're
asking for exactly. Because, I mean, if I go out -- if we
go out and say we're requesting proposals as to how to fix
up the Ag Barn, which are basically what we're doing --
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- well, if we don't get
very specific -- are we talking about the parking lot? Are
we talking about the rodeo arena? The fence? If we don't
talk very specifically about what we're asking for, we're
going to get answers from one spectrum to the other, and I
don't think we can make a decision unless we're asking them
all to vote -- I mean give us a proposal on the same thing.
And I don't know -- and this is kind where we got -- you
know, the last time we went out for proposals, we made a
very specific one, and which, you know, was probably
appropriate at that time. And I just think we need to make
-- I would like to see what we're asking before it goes out,
I guess is what I'm saying, because I think it's got to be
so that we can make a selection based on real criteria. And

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I can see if we just go out and say, "We want your ideas,"
which is what we're doing, we're going to get everything
from one spectrum to the other.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But on the other side
of that, though, Jon, if we was to adopt the Baldwin plan,
you wouldn't need to do this. You'd just go out and hire
somebody to do the Baldwin plan, and no problem. You
wouldn't have to hire somebody to figure out -- to tell you
that we need to leave that wall there; that that wall has to
be torn down, or it won't work in the concept. I mean,
those -- those things are -- to me, are ridiculous
questions.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not opposing what
you're saying. I'm on your side. That -- you know, and to
be definitive, I think -- I think we got it pretty, kind of,
close to being definitive what we want. We want a barn.
Go out there and build a barn.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know why -- I
guess I don't know why we don't go hire the architect we're
going to use right now, and what we're going to bid on is an
hourly rate and a percentage that they want of the total
deal. 'Cause we have to do -- I mean, the only reason we
have to -- I'm saying architect is we have to hire one by
law. You know, I don't -- I'm not in favor of going out and
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expending money on another consulting firm and then go out
and hire an architect.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's a good
point. And this would suggest that we would be asking
various firms to bid on architectural and engineering
services for design and/or construction alternatives. I
don't -- I don't quite agree with my colleague here, all we
want to do is build a barn.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm shocked.
(Laughter.) I am totally shocked.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there are
other things out there that are of equal concern. But I do
believe it's important for to us find out what is
salvageable out there and what is not salvageable, and what
has to be done t~ that arena to make certain in our
collective minds that it is a safe venue for public events.
And the only way to do that is have somebody go out there at
our behest and make the kinds of professional inspections
necessary to get the job done. So, I guess what you're
saying -- and I think I agree with you, Jon -- if we're
going to do that, let's get somebody who can do all these
things, including designing the new facility that we either
say yes or no to.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, on the other
end of this spectrum, it's the Nicholson plan. What I would
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like --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought I was on
the other end of the spectrum.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe we're on the
same end, I don't know. What I would like to see is
somebody to tell -- somebody to tell us the minimum amount
of work that's needed and the minimum expenditure to make
that facility usable. The lowest cost approach that we can
do would be -- would be my approach to it. And if that's
$2 million, I've got a real problem with that. I don't -- I
was just out there Saturday night -- and I'm not a builder;
I built a couple of houses -- but I can't see $2 million
worth of work to bring that up to minimum standards. I --
maybe I'm regressing and leading us back into a subject that
we don't need to go through again, but just to wrap that up,
I'd like for somebody to say just what I said. What's the
minimum amount of work that needs to be done to make this
safe and usable, and what's the minimum expenditure to bring
that about?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I concur with what
you're saying.
JUDGE TINLEY: In response to that,
Commissioner Nicholson, one of the alternatives, or one of a
number of the alternatives that I anticipate we would be
asking for would be that. It would be able to -- one of the
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alternatives would be the Nicholson plan. One of the
alternatives would be the Baldwin plan. One of the
alternatives would be the Williams plan. I don't know
whether Commissioner Letz has his own plan or not, but --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- he's certainly free to work
it up. But we've got a bunch of different alternatives that
we've kicked around here for a considerable period of time,
long -- even long before I got here and before you got here.
But one of the problems we've got is, we -- we've not been
able to zero in and decide which one or more of these
alternatives do we want to select. And, secondly, what's it
going to cost? I think one of the reasons we haven't been
able to decide what we want is because we don't know what
it's going to cost. Not in a sure enough firm, professional
estimate. We -- we were able to get, in connection with the
bond issue, the cooperation of three very competent local
builders to give us their ballpark estimates. There were
some earlier estimates that were obtained about a year ago
on various things, but we're going to have to have an
architect or engineer anyway to assist us by law. I would
suggest that whoever it is that responds to this RFP, with
these various alternatives and the costs for each of them,
is probably going to be the guy we end up going with to go
forward on whatever we decide is the alternative or
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alternatives that we select.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess -- you
know, I don't know, then, why we don't just hire the firm
that we're talking about right now. Because, based on my
knowledge of that facility and just a random talk at the gas
station with another person who was intimately involved with
the construction of that facility, they brought up a thing I
hadn't even thought about. We've all been talking about --
using this as an example -- salvaging the concrete in the
current exhibit hall. Well, they said, "Well, that was
poured in multiple phases and it's not structural; it can't
be used." And I was, like -- I hadn't thought of that.
So -- but what that triggers in my mind, they're going to
have to take core samples of that concrete at some pint, you
know. And I just see that we have a -- one, if we do at
least hire the architectural firm that we're going to stick
with, at least we can get that behind us and let them put
together a team and start coming together with proposals as
to what -- you know, what -- we've done an asbestos survey,
so that's done, but we're going to have to do all kinds of
structural analysis before they can tell us what we can do
definitely.
If we're trying to get a bottom line cost,
we're going to have to do core samples of the concrete,
we're going to have to have someone go through this, you
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know, to some standard on plumbing, electrical, safety. You
know, we're going to have to decide what that standard is,
because -- you know, whether we use the city standards or
the, you know, national standards. So, I just think that,
you know, if we at least get the architect behind us, it
would be a major step. And I'm not -- I mean, in effect,
I'm not going to be in favor of hiring another consultant
other than a permanent architect.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you, and
I think this -- this agenda item accomplishes that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as that's what
the RFQ says.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I had some folks ask
me at the conclusion of our workshop, "Well, you had a
workshop; you talked about the Ag Barn. How did it go?
What did you do? How'd it go?" I said, "We spent two and a
half hours chasing our tail. Collectively, chasing our
tail." Because we don't have the answers that come out of
there. I'm in favor of it. Let's move it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as the RFQ is to
hire the architectural firm for actual renovation/
construction of the facility, I'm in favor of it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got to be able to
ask them to provide us with -- with the various
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alternatives.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hmm-mm. I think all we
ask them to provide us with is the standard. We pick the
architect -- or I presume the state architectural contract
that's been approved. We ask for that contract to come in,
and this thing that they're goirrg to do, and we'll make the
selection. All we're doing is hiring an architect.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, I mean.
JUDGE TINLEY: One way to go.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And -- well, let me
see if I can -- there's something else that has to be said.
Are we going to tell -- once we make that selection, are we
going to tell them, then, the things we need dine, so we can
make an intelligent decision?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, even in the RFQ,
you can say that we're going to rely on this firm, you know,
to give us advice, and they're going to charge us every step
of the way for their opinion as the consultant. But I think
we're hiring the architectural firm that we're going to be
comfortable with giving us that information that we're going
to believe and rely on. But we're hiring -- all we're doing
is hiring an architectural firm for that facility.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Will there be some
limitations that are listed that say something about minimum
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requirements or minimum needs to bring it up to standards or
something like that? Or is it going to be an open-ended
thing where they can design a new Ag Barn?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you -- I don't
think you want to limit it. I think you just want -- it
could be a $100,000 project, it could be a
multi-million-dollar project. We don't know until they give
us the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, my question is,
when you get into those things, by whose standards? Whose
standards? Talking about, like, this concrete issue, which
borders on one of the most ridiculous things I've ever
heard. You know, we're going to bore holes in there to find
out that concrete is concrete, and that it can hold up what?
People doing the Cotton-Eye Joe on Saturday night? You
know, I -- you know, once we get into those kinds of things,
that's where we're going to bog down.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, just -- you
know, let's build a barn -- we're talking about a barn here,
okay?
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Steel building.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A barn.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Concrete floor.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Concrete floor.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where the goats
dance, right?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Once we get into the
escalators and the heliports --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No heliports, no
escalator. You've got my pledge; no escalator.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No heliport.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got a commitment
there. But once we get off into these kind of things, I
mean, it's not going to fly, I can tell you. It ain't going
to happen.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't disagree with
you, Commissioner, but I think if you're going to ask
engineers to sign off on it, they're going to waist t~ know
what this concrete's made of.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To do what? To dance
on?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you're going to drive
a truck on it, if you're going to have any kind of support
in it fcr a roof over, you know, that building, or a new
roof over it, or for anything. I mean, because you know --
remember the headache we had; we argued for days about a
quarter-inch difference in concrete at the new jail.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, you know,
then you get into, is it -- are we talking about a pickup
truck? Are we talking about a fire truck? You know, I
mean, it could go on forever.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or Bradley tank.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're talking about a
barn; put goats and sheep and pigs in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And skid steers.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And skid steers.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move the agenda
item the way it's framed.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded to authorize the advertisement of an RFP for
architectural and/or engineering services for design and/or
construction alternatives or repairs, renovation,
rehabilitation, and/or construction of facilities at Hill
Country Youth Exhibit Center and the cost estimates for each
of such alternatives. Any further discussion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm voting --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to vote
for it based on faith.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'r<i voting against it,
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All in favor, signify by raising your right hand.
(Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and
Nicholson voted in favor of the motion.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(Commissioner Letz voted against the motion.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motions does carry. Next item
on the agenda, discuss and consider status of pending
airport lease agreement with Joseph L. Kennedy Enterprises,
inc., and/or others. If the Court will recall, last meeting
we were discussing a new lease with Kennedy, and also the
renewal of an existing lease that Mr. Kennedy has as part of
the consideration for the new lease. There were some
modifications and/or adjustments to that, and the Court
approved those two items conditioned upon the review by the
County Attorney and his comfort level with it, as well as
some concerns that I expressed; further conditioned upon my
satisfactory comfort level with it. Mr. Motley?
MR. MOTLEY: Are you referring now about the
review? Is that what you're asking about? I know that
there were some -- if you're asking about some of the
concern areas, there is a concern. I know we had looked at
some of the -- I don't know, predecessor leases, I guess
you'd say. They're still in effect, so some of them have
been extended, and some, I guess, court orders dating back
to '87, and there seems to be some inconsistencies, maybe,
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in the way that the leases are signed or required to be
signed. In other words, I guess maybe the whole thing is --
maybe we ought to take just a teeny bit more time and look
all this over before we approve any -- any lease at this
time, would be my recommendation. There is a lot of --
well, there are numerous leases, first of all, and then
there's some extensions, and the leases that we are dealing
with for different areas of this airport are all not
particularly conterminous.
One of the things that, if it's possible, I
would like to see, is I think it would be good for -- to get
everything sort of in one ball to lease at some point in
time, to get all the leases in at the same time. I know --
I don't know if it was last meeting, maybe two or three
meetings ago, the Commissioners Court had -- it was
expressed in court that the lease -- the total of leases
have value as a package, and when you start breaking off
into separate leases, it becomes questionable about the
value of the -- of the entirety of the package. And I'm --
as I understand it, most of the leases now end by either --
by current expression of the termination date or by binding
extensions in 2033. And I would like to see -- just me,
personally, would like to see everything end in the same
year so we can put the same time so we can continue to lease
them to whoever the interested party is, but lease them to
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them all in a group. And I don't know if you had any
particular questions, or if I'm just rambling on here.
JUDGE TINLEY: You, at one time, Mr. Motley,
I believe, had expressed a concern about the requirement or
not of a competitive process.
MR. MOTLEY: Well, and I will tell you that
the state of my research at this point is -- and I had said
that -- said at one point that -- you know, the issue came
up on kind of the spur of the moment that day in court.
I've looked at it, and I don't see -- and I know the City's
attorney is here today and she may have a disagreement with
me, but I don't see anything that would excuse the County
from going out for some sort of either bid process or
something approaching a bid process. There's a process
provided for where the County can get an appraisal on the
value of the lease, and then lease competitively that way,
but it looks to me like everything I've looked at indicates
that the County has to either go out for some sort of bid or
some -- some equal procedure that will yield the County the
maximum amount of money on it. And I didn't see -- I
thought there might be a way around that, so-to-speak, or an
exr_eption to that rule for airports. There are a lot of
exceptions for airports, but I don't see that they overrule
the general rule under the Government Code, Chapter 263,
that says that a county has to get a competitive bid for
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their -- for their property. I don't see anything that
excuses us from that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do or don't?
MR. MOTLEY: I think we do have to. I think
we have to get some sort of competitive bid. There's
another procedure whereby you get an appraisal, and it sets
up a -- a representative of the Ccurt who can -- can lease
according to that appraisal, but something approaching the
highest value of the property.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, I've always
thought that.
MR. MOTLEY: I think you're correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Felt that way, that we
should go out, and the highest bidder, but then everybody
convinced me that that wasn't -- that wasn't the real route
to go.
MR. MOTLEY: Well, I said -- I said
Government Code; I meant Local Government. Chapter 236, I
think, is the rule. There are other rules in the Local
Municipal Airport Act, I think is what's they call it, that
talk about being able to lease property. The City/County
can lease; they can do all these things. There are other
uses county property can be put to, you know, auditorium and
all these different things, but I don't think any of
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think any of those do away with the basic obligation under
263 of the Local Government Code that the county go through
a procedure where they obtain maximum value, either through
bid process -- this other alternate I'm talking about with
the -- you know, it may be that the Airport Board can do
this.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question.
Having said what you just said, Mr. County Attorney, given
that the County and the City jointly own the property, the
City by arrangement manages the property, the City has the
right to do what you just said. They can do that because
there's some special considerations under the Municipal
Code, I guess, as well as Airport Codes that permit them to
lease these facilities the way they have been in the past.
How do you square all that?
MR. MOTLEY: Well, that may be part of the
original question I think Judge Tinley raised. I think
maybe -- it may be that some of the leases in the past
perhaps may have been entered into in -- you know,
unadvisedly or something. I don't know. I haven't looked
at every letter of every lease there. There are actually
quite a few of them in here. And -- but when you look at
it, I mean, these are the -- these are the current leases
right now with the extensions. And it may be that some of
those contracts, you know, were incorrectly completed, those

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leases, by -- by considering this rule under 263. It may be
that they were done improperly. I think, really, what Judge
Tinley and I had discussed is that if things were done
incorrectly, the better process or the better procedure at
this point would probably be to take a real close look at it
and see if there's a problem, and there attempt at this point
to straighten it out, rather than to perpetuate it by
continuing to extend the lease or continue to lease property
under the same sort of conditions. I don't think you can
square it. I really don't. I think that this is the way it
should have been done from the get-go, if the Airport Board
does have authority to lease property.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, they have
authority to make recommendations.
MR. MOTLEY: Well, I don't --
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to address that in a
MR. MOTLEY: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I take very serious issue with
that statement.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really?
JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely.
MR. MOTLEY: Well, I'm going to -- unless you
have any more questions, I think Judge Tinley has actually
looked into this pretty deeply, and I'll be happy to answer
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any questions now or after any other comments from y'all,
'cause I know the Judge does have some comments on it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to hear the
Judge's comments.
MR. MOTLEY: Sure. Anybody else have
anything at all on this? Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I knew, Mr. Motley, that you
expressed some concerns in the past about the competitive
nature of -- of the process, and you were concerned about
that, whether the County could participate in the lease of
county property on something other than a competitive basis,
and that's -- let me -- let me address my concerns, if I
might, and it's included within the information which I
provided to -- to each of you, and also the City has the
benefit of this information. Back in 1970, the City and the
County formed a Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Board
under the provisions of the -- of the Texas Municipal
Airport Act, and that body was formed by resolution of each
of the -- each of the organizations, and it's indicated in
your materials.
Subsequent to that time, there were various
leases or other activities that occurred out at the airport.
Some of those leases were assigned to third parties, new
leases, and in a number of those documents, you saw the
concurrence of the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport
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Board. In fact, in some of those documents, you saw a
provision in the document itself that the legal
effectiveness of the document would not occur until all
three, being the City, the County, and the Airport Board,
are parties to the agreement. The original lease by which
Mr.. Kennedy has his F.B.O. operation out there, I believe,
contains such a provision, if you'll examine it. There was
a Mooney agreement that occurred as recently as 1995, I
believe, which required the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint
Airport Board's consent and agreement. That, I suspect, was
something that was required -- I don't know this, but was
required by someone on Mooney's behalf, one of their lenders
or someone acting on their behalf. Mr. Jackson may know
more about that.
There was significant involvement by the
Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Board. I have not
looked at the 1970 vending statutes of the Texas Municipal
Airport Act. I do have what is the successor to that
statutory provision, and I've reviewed it. And, basically,
what it says is that such a joint Airport Board has the
authority to do all of the functions that its constituent
agencies, which in this case would be the City and the
County, subject only to the limitations as set forth in a
subsequent provision of what is now the Municipal Airport
Act. One of the limitations is that they could not lease
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property to a third party for use or possession of airport
property for a term of more than 40 years.
Later on, there's a provision that says the
constituent agency, being the City and the County, could, by
resolution, even remove that limitation and grant the
authority for more than 40 years, I would assume by
resolution. Had they done that, they could take it back at
any time after they had done it. The next thing that occurs
in this chain of events is in 1981, the then City Manager
for the City of Kerrville -- again, this information is in
your materials -- concluded that the function of the
airport -- of the airport board -- Joint Airport Board
should be advisory only, and obtained an ordinance by the
City Council of the City of Kerrville which stated that the
Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Board could not, acting
alone, lease property. Subsequent to that, a predecessor of
this Court followed suit at the suggestion of the then City
Manager.
My bottom line to you, gentlemen, is that if
you form a joint airport board under the provisions of the
Municipal Airport Act, except as may be authorized by that
statute, you're not free -- neither of the constituent
agencies -- not free to subsequently pick and choose what
provisions of that act they decide they like or don't like.
If you don't like it, you bail out completely, but you don't
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write -- rewrite state legislation to fit Kerr County.
Bottom line is, I think the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint
Airport Board is alive and well. Notwithstanding an
ordinance by the City Council or an order of this Court, it
is not strictly an advisory body. It has the authority to
lease property at the airport for a period not to exceed 40
years, but up to 40 years.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's very
interesting, Judge, and I appreciate your comments. And it
also brings into question why -- based on what you've said,
why, in subsequent years, when the Court adopted its order
in '87 based on some correspondence that came from the City
with respect to a city ordinance, why they permitted the
advisory board to retain zoning authority, having stripped
it of leasing authority or other fiduciary responsibility.
So, I -- I appreciate your comments; that's very
enlightening. Question is, where do we go from here?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think I noticed
Mr. Jackson nodding his head when I mentioned the '95 action
on the Mooney lease, which required the airport board's
concurrence in whatever modification took place there. And
apparently you were involved in that, Mr. Jackson?
MR. JACKSON: Your Honor, I'm not really
sure, but it did sound familiar, that a lender did require
all of those pieces of paper, and I think I may have even

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been involved to submit those pieces of paper to the various
bodies. But I don't recall a discussion of the detail that
you've mentioned about how they got to that conclusion, what
the lender was requiring, but that rang true to me when you
said that.
JUDGE TINLEY: The -- I think my bad news
message is that -- and this is merely my opinion -- that
this matter may have been handled, at least in part,
inappropriately since 1987. My good news part of the
message is -- is that maybe the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint
Airport Board is not bound by the same constraints on
competitive bidding or other competitive procurement that
Kerr County's bound by. I don't know the answer to that
question. I -- I very belatedly slipped that one in
Mr. Motley's lap, and I don't think he's had an opportunity
to chew on it. But my conclusion is, it was formed, it's in
existence. We cannot pick and choose what provisions we
want under the statutory law to be effective from time to
time, and that that board has the authority that was given
to it back in 1970; has now, always has had, irrespective of
what this Court and the City Council of the City of
Kerrville may have done.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Has the authority to
lease those properties out there on their own without --
without agreement with the constituent bodies, as you put
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it?
JUDGE TINLEY: As long as the lease does not
exceed 40 years.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So they can just go
out --
JUDGE TINLEY: That's how I read the statute.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then how does the
Commissioners Court know that that's happened?
COMMISSIONER WILLIP.MS: They can report to
us. If we didn't like what happened, I guess we'd change
our representation on it at some point in time, 'cause we
pick a certain number of those members.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a good point,
Commissioner. If -- and I have no reason to believe it's
not -- what you just said is not accurate, but there's a big
difference between a management board and advisory board.
If we -- if we've been treating them like an advisory board
since 1970, then the question arises, do we have the right
people in there? Do we have advisory-type people in there,
or do we have people that are capable of a managing
function?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's an obvious question. I
notice that the Assistant City Attorney is here, Ms. Ilse
Bailey, who has had the benefit of this information. I'm
not sure what her total research has shown, if she's ready
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to come forward and give us her take on all of this hoopla.
MS. BAILEY: Good morning. ror the record,
Ilse Bailey with the City Attorney's office. I don't know
that I'm particularly prepared to address everythinq that
Judge Tinley has addressed, although it has been, certainly,
the City's opinion that the leases are appropriate and the
extensions thereof are -- are appropriate. I think getting
to the details of why or under what analysis could be left
to another day. But the main thing I wanted to point out,
in order to answer Commissioners Williams' question about
why, if they are only advisory, were they allowed to retain
zoning authority, and, Commissioner Williams, that is
provided for specifically in the statutes. Even for those
boards that don't have any other authority except advisory,
they are granted the authority under the statutes to be a
zoning board, and under that aspect of their work, it's not
advisory; it's a regulatory authority. So, that -- the
answer to that question wouldn't have any bearing on whether
or not Judge Tinley's analysis was correct. I have reviewed
all of the documentation to which Judge Tinley refers, and I
do recall the 1970 documents granting leasing authority to
the board. What I -- I don't specifically recall reviewing,
and I will do this immediately, the question of whether or
not they require concurrence of the City and the County in
order for those leases to be effectuated or not. But I do
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recall that the board was given the authority to do the
leasing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Another item that I might
pitch out on the table here, just to kind of create more
confusion in the mix -- and it's not as though the City's
not aware ~f this -- later on in 1970, by the voters of this
county, an airport authority was created under the
provisions of Article 9, Section 12 of the Texas
Constitution. Now, an airport authority need not
necessarily be any sort of a management or -- or oversight
agency. It, rather, is for the purpose of -- of the
leasing, building construction, acquisition of airport
facilities, and providing for the way that they will be
financed or paid for. And I would note that our airport
authority has the authority to issue general obligation
bonds and the authority, I believe under current law, to
levy a tax rate up to 75 cents per hundred. I hear a lot of
silence.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think they
know that, Judge.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is airport authority the
same as airport board?
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JUDGE TINLEY: No, it is not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not the same -- same
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JUDGE TINLEY: They are -- it's neither the
same entity, and naturally, therefore, not the same makeup.
Now, the airport authority, though it has been approved --
and it's another document in the materials that I gave you.
By referendum of the voters of this county, the authority
was created and the results were canvassed, but as I've been
able to ascertain to this point, nothing went on to further
perpetuate the activities of that authority from that day.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That answered my
question.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't function?
JUDGE TINLEY: Has never, to my knowledge,
other than come into creation.
COMMTSSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'm looking at
this 19 -- February 1987 court order that I seconded the
motion. That's simply -- that states that the Airport Board
is an advisory board only, has no authority acting alone in
leasing, et cetera. Now, are you saying that this is -- and
this Court was advised by the City Manager to do this. Are
you saying --
JUDGE TINLEY: Suggested.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Suggested. Are you
saying that this is -- this is wrong? And if --
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm saying, legally, it's
ineffectual. It doesn't have the authority --
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- to change the state
statute.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what
I'm saying. By what state statute?
JUDGE TINLEY: Texas Municipal Airport Act.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That says that -- it
clearly says in there that the airport board does have
authority to lease, and so what we're doing here is, we're
backing months up and saying to the airport board, "Take
care of the business, and we'll see y'all next year"?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we're
saying.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. All I need --
all I need is David Motley to say yes, that is true, and I'm
off and running. I'm not going to spend another minute on
this thing.
MR. MOTLEY: What this says is -- in the
statute is -- in the Transportation Code, 22.080 says the
joint -- a joint board may not, without consent of each
governing board -- each governing authority of the board's
constituent agencies, enter into a contract, lease, or other
arrangement for the use and occupancy of airport property
for a term of more than 40 years, including renewals or
options to renew. And then the second provision that the
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Judge had talked about further down here is that they may
make other arrangements, but that is -- that is in current
law. And that law was effective on September 1st of '95.
But there are three other laws, and I think the Judge was
talking about not havinq seen the earlier versions of
several of these statutes, but this goes back sometime --
all the way back to Vernon Annotated Civil Statute 46D-14,
so it goes -- it's been through three different, you know,
versions. This is the fourth version of that law. And so
I -- we don't have access to older statutes; pretty much
everything we have in our library is current information.
We don't have -- we can't go back, without going to the Law
Library in San Antonio or somewhere, and look at the old
versions of the statutes.
But I note one of the prior statutes says it
was a 1947 act. Another was a 1943 act -- a 1983 act,
excuse me, so the '83 act probably was the one that was in
effect from the 68th Legislature at the time of this '87 --
I think what the Judge is saying is absolutely correct. I
don't think it invalidates any contracts that the City and
County also signed on. I think it's -- that's just icing on
the cake, so-to-speak. I don't think we had to do it, but I
think the act that we took -- and I mean February the 7th of
1987, based on the February 2nd letter of suggestion from
Glen Brown that we do this, I don't think it's -- I think it
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was just kind of a waste of time, really. I don't think we
take the power or authority away from this statute the
Legislature granted to the airport boards, and so I think
the Judge is right.
JUDGE TINLEY: In connection with the
comments that Mr. Motley made, if the then version of the
Texas Municipal Airport Act, which was in effect in 1987
when the Commissioners Court order and the Kerrville City
Council ordinance was passed, contained a provision that
said that the constituent agencies, acting together, could
pick and choose what authority they wanted to give this
board, then we may be okay. My guess is it didn't say that,
based upon what the provisions of the act are now. But the
flip side of that is, we need to know what it said then, and
what Mr. Motley was telling you is, it's going to take some
more research to sniff all that out. But we need to do it.
We need -- if it needs to be corrected, it's better to start
now than just perpetuating an errcr, if, in fact, it exists,
and saying, "Well, we've done this this way for long enough;
we'll just keep doing it the wrong way."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: That I don't agree with.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't either.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sniff it out, but
where does that leave Mr. Kennedy in the meantime?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Unfortunately, Mr. Kennedy is
caught in the middle of this mess. And I hate it that he is
-- he's caught in the middle, but it very well could have
been someone else, and he just happened to be the poor soul
that got -- got caught in the switch here. And I think
Mr. Jackson -- he's nodding here, and I think he understands
the dilemma that we now have based upon this information.
And I -- on the existing lease renewal, I don't see a
real -- I don't see a real problem with that, because that
lease goes through 2005. However, it's tied to the new
lease which he wants, and he's got people waiting in line,
according to my understanding, to utilize this new hangar
that he wants to get started building. But, unfortunately,
I see that we've got two options, neither of which is really
before us today. But, while we're by natural sequence led
to this, one is we can do nothing until we sniff it all out
and have poor Mr. Kennedy patting his foot with us, or two,
we can go forward on his new lease, new hangar arrangement
alone, separate that and handle it as a stand-alone deal.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean, we
can?
JUDGE TINLEY: And --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The airport board can.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- get the airport board to
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still have the question about -- I'd like an answer that
that board is not necessarily bound by competitive bidding
arrangements, too, see. So, we've got some complications
either way we go.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I guess -- and I
appreciate your research and I find it very interesting, but
it has triggered in my mind another step, is that at some
point -- and I would be more comfortable when it comes to
the airport to know about, on the financial side -- okay,
let's say the airport board has the authority to do all
this, and there's revenue generated in that. And then I
also -- I mean, what is the financial side relationship
between that board, the City, and the County, is what I'm
basically saying. Because taxpayer dollars -- they're
basically dealing with taxpayer dollars in a way, because
the County and the City, you know, whenever there's a
deficit, cough it in. And I'm a little -- I just would like
to really clarify as to how that relationship --
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I can answer
that for you. If I'm in error, I think Mr. Knippel's here
so that he can fill in the gaps, correct where I misstated.
Those operations out there, the revenues go in -- the
revenues that are due the City and/or the County go into an
airport fund pool, and out of that pool, whatever
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requirements for contribution from City and County are first
paid out of there. Only in .the event that fund is
inadequate is there any call made upon either the City or
the County for additional funds, in which case we each come
up with 50 cents on each dollar. Is that essentially
correct, Mr. Knippel?
MR. KNIPPEL: Yes, sir. And that may not be
the entire picture of that. Yes, there is an airport fund
that handles -- that collects all the revenues and most of
the expenditures that go out. The City finances 100 percent
of the salary of the Airport Manager, as well as our Street
Department commits a great deal of labor, material, and
equipment to the maintenance of the airport. All that is
subsidized -- that part is subsidized by the City solely.
That's not in any type of arrangement that we have or any
signed agreement with the County; that's just kind of the
way that things have evolved. The -- anything that -- any
other expenditures that may come -- the type of expenditures
that normally exceed the revenues going into that fund are
these grant matches, and in which case there's a large
contribution equally from both the City and the County on
that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, Paul, let me
interrupt you for a second. On the grants, I mean, I think
we need to make sure exactly, on applying for the grants, to
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make sure that -- the City and County are applying for
grants, I guess is the way it's been done up to now, or is
it the Airport Board? Because whose money and who has
control of spending the funds out of the airport fund? Is
it the City/County or is it the Airport Board?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You raise a good
point, and the Judge's research also raises a point and
emphasizes the need for an interlocal agreement between the
City and the County for the operation of the airport, which
does not exist. And I've referenced that to Paul; I've
referenced to it Ron Patterson, that need exists and has to
be satisfied, and a lot of these questions will get laid to
rest within the framework of that agreement.
MR. KNIPPEL: And if I might just expound on
this conversation a little bit, maybe this is all part of --
part of the divine wisdom at play here; what seems like a
huge wrench in the works may be something that needs to be
done and may result in a management agreement of types.
There's been a number of questions raised at this point.
Unfortunately, we do have a user out there or a tenant who
is kind of held at bay with this. But what I would propose
to do is, the City staff conduct the research -- the legal
research, come up with a proposal for how to resolve this,
because this isn't -- this is not something that is so
mangled up that it can't -- we don't have an answer waiting
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at the other end, but there needs to be a number of steps
till we have that answer at the other end. I think that we
can do that, make a proposal and give it to the County
Attorney for his review and concurrence, and then bring that
back and then say that this is how we're going to handle
everything. Now, we may wind up with some ratification of
past action if it's not exactly the way it should have been
done, and then we have a new method of leasing procedures
and so forth for the future. With regard to the Kennedy
lease -- and I would propose to bring that back to you as
soon as possible, within the next couple weeks hopefully.
Again, because the answers are there; it's just taking time
to review it. I think -- I don't think we have anything
that we need to particularly wait on, necessarily, to find
those answers. With regard to the Kennedy lease, well, I
don't know -- I don't necessarily want to propose that we
enter into and sign an agreement with him if we don't
exactly know where we're going.
JUDGE TINLEY: Unfortunately, I don't think
we can. I'm like you; I'd like to get Kennedy where he's
not held hostage by this, but I don't see any way that we
can and proceed comfortably with it, is my problem.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, let me ask --
this might be a possible solution. If we could quickly
resolve the issue about whether or not competitive bidding

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is required on this kind of contract, if we could get that
out of the way -- for example, if we find out it's not, then
that frees us up to go ahead and deal with the Kennedy
contract issue. In that regard, we could put usability --
suspenders approach, and all three parties sign on to it,
could we not? And we would be covered in any event, before
the question of the autonomy of the airport board is
answered.
MS. BAILEY: Could I make --
JUDGE TINLEY: Initially, I would say that
that sounds reasonable, but, you know, we got -- we got so
many -- many things -- many balls in play and in the air on
this thing, I don't think I'd be in a position to give you
an absolute commitment on that. But it sounds reasonable.
In fact, that's where I was going a little bit ago, until
the competitive thing came in. There may be some other
issues which are there.
MS. BAILEY: Judge, can I make a suggestion?
That currently, as I understand it, what you have before you
from last Commissioners Court meeting is an approval of the
Kennedy lease subject to your specific level of comfort and
the County Attorney's level of comfort. If you leave that
as it is, then if the County Attorney and the City staff and
you can come to some kind of an agreement on that specific
issue, you could go ahead and sign that without having to go

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back for additional Commissioners Court action, while we
could still be working towards a very rapid resolution of
the larger issue of how the operation of the airport is to
continue.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's exactly where it
was left last meeting, as I recall.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is.
JUDGE TINLEY: And, Mr. Knippel's suggestion
that you go to work and burn the midnight oil is certainly
satisfactory with me, and I'm sure it is with Mr. Motley as
well.
MS. BAILEY: And I appreciate that.
JUDGE TINLEY: He was quick to volunteer your
-- your complete cooperation.
MS. BAILEY: I'm proud that he has that kind
of confidence in his staff.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me see if I
understand the bottom line.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on what
Ms. Bailey just said and the Court's prior action, which we
actually approved the lease extension subject to your review
and satisfaction and Mr. Motley's, that -- that approval's
in place until and unless we hear from either of you that
there's something that just absolutely is against the law,
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we can't do.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What else do we have
to say?
MR. KNIPPEL: So, does that mean we'll get a
signature on the lease documents this next week?
JUDGE TINLEY: Depends on how fast Ms. Bailey
can work and how persuasive she is with -- with the County
Attorney and myself, I believe, Mr. Knippel. I believe
that's answered -- basically, what the Court has done is --
is the hot potato is in my lap and Mr. Motley's lap at this
point.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You did all that good
research and you got it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I got well rewarded for
it, didn't I?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have to admit,
Judge, Commissioner Baldwin and I were sitting here saying,
"What the hell does all this have to do with the lease?"
But now we know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was a little bit
confused, reading through the agenda package. Interesting
history, but I was rather confused by the time I got to the
end of it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No good act will go
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unpunished.
JUDGE TINLEY: And I want to commend
Commissioner Baldwin on not taking the opportunity to engage
in lawyer-bashing. I thought surely we'd get --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was wide-open,
wasn't it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If there ever was an
opportunity for him --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to get --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- to take in after the
lawyers, that was it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to get with
you privately on this thing so I can tell you that.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, it is now left where we
left it before, and posthaste, --
MS. BAILEY: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- Ms. Bailey.
MS. BAILEY: I'll endeavor to make rapid
response.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good. Thank you. I'll look
forward to seeing your work. We'll go on to the next item,
which is consider and discuss establishing wellness program
for Kerr County employees. Ms. Chapman with the Extension
Service contacted me about this, and there's minimal
material about establishing this wellness program, but I
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think she can give us some basics that can tell us where
she's going that hopefully will cause you to be
MS. CHAPMAN: Okay. Is it all right if I
approach the bench and pass out some information?
JUDGE TINLEY: Surely.
MS. CHAPMAN: First of all, don't be insulted
by the first handout; I'm not inviting y'all, but if you
want to come, that's fine. I just wanted to update you on
something called "Healthy Aging, Hill Country Style." And I
kind of call this my three-legged stool. This is an event
that's going to occur at the Inn of the Hills here next
month, and what I did was work with the Extension Agent in
Gillespie County, as well as Texas Department of Health,
Dietert Senior Center, and Sid Peterson as well as Hill
Country Memorial Hospital, to develop an education campaign
for our older folks or folks who are working on getting
older, which I guess is all of us. But we conducted a needs
assessment to see what these folks need to know as far as
what their issues are. And so, on the back of the handout,
you'll see some things about, like, balance and fall
prevention, aging and driving, memory, things like that.
And these are what our seniors identified as -- as issues of
interest and importance to them, so we're going to have a
conference.
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The keynote speaker is Mary Ann Wilson; she
has a Tv show on PLBB called "Sit and be Fit," and she's
coming from Spokane, Washington to Kerrville, Texas for
that, and we're really excited. KLRN is running public
service announcements all over their 30-county area, and
we've even gotten phone calls now from New York; some lady
from New York is flying down to Kerrville, Texas for this,
so we're really, really excited. So, one part is the
conferences. Another part are exhibits, and another part is
health screenings, and there's a lot of health care savings
that result from health care screenings, so I wanted you all
to know about that going on.
But what I'm here today to talk about is
another wellness initiative called "Do Well, Be Well With
Diabetes." And you all have this handout here, and there's
some statistics within this handout. If you will turn to
the second page, under Treatment Costs, you can see that the
first star there mentions that for each dollar spent on
diabetes outpatient education, that saves $2 to $3 in
hospitalization costs. Also, if you go down, the last star
there talks about the higher hemoglobin Alc values -- which
I'll explain what that is in a minute -- had higher medical
costs over a three-year period. What is glycosylated
hemoglobin or hemoglobin A1c? That has to do with how many
sugar molecules are hooked to somebody's hemoglobin within
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their red blood cell, and the more out of control you are as
a diabetic, the more of these little sugar molecules are
hanging on your hemoglobin. It makes your blood real sticky
and syrupy, so that kind of explains a little bit why
diabetics have a circulation problem. So, on the back here,
next page -- third page, you can find some dollar values
associated with -- depending on what your hemoglobin Alc
level is versus how much that costs, and as you bring down
that number somewhere, we hope, to 6 to 7 percent, then
you're saving a lot of money. Okay.
All right. You got all sort of statistics to
read over. Fifth page, Diabetes and Employment Statistics.
Employees who control their blood glucose levels are more
productive on the job and able to remain employed longer.
And you have your percentages there; 99 versus 87 percent
and 97 percent versus 85 percent, respectively, of employees
with good glycemic control, which again has to do with that
glycosylated hemoglobin, lower their absenteeism rate by
1 percent compared with an 8 percent increase in employees
with poor glycemic control. And, on average, persons with
diabetes from the ages of 18 to 64 lost 8.3 days per year
from work. That's a lot, you know, to me. And then the
last trrirry, after three months of attending a worksite
diabetes education program, employees with diabetes lowered
their mean fasting blood glucose from 198 to 180, and they
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reduced that glycosylated hemoglobin.
So, what I would like to do is target
diabetics within the county, the County employees, and
invite them to kind of a lunch type of educational session
for a six-week period, and these classes would be for two
hours. They would get lunch at the sessions. They would
pay $15 out of their own pockets for that, 'cause they'd be
getting lunch, but they're going to learn about all
different considerations, how to control diet and actually
the things that they need to do, because a lot of diabetics
are very -- I don't want to -- I don't know what the word
is. They don't know a lot of times all the things they need
to do. They've been told things like, "Don't eat sweets,"
okay, and really they can, but they really need to
understand their diet. They need to know about toot care.
They need to know about blood glucose monitoring and how to
calibrate machines. They need to know about how to assess
feeling in their feet. There's a little -- oh, it looks
kind of like one of these fiberoptic things on all these
tacky Christmas decorations. They tickle their foot with it
and they can see how much sensation they have.
So, there's all sort of different things they
need to learn, and what I'm looking at doing is an informal
coalition of Department -- Texas Department of Health, local
pharmacists, and podiatrists to get the thing off the ground
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and running. My background is in nutrition; I'm a
registered dietitian, have a Master's in nutrition as well
as a Bachelor's degree in that, was a clinical dietitian for
three and a half years, taught a senior-level clinical
course at Texas A & M, as well as directing their graduate
dietetic internship program, sat on the National Board of
the American Dietetic Association, so I think I can handle
the nutrition part. But I'm really, really excited about
this, and hope y'all consider this. What I want to do after
this is go to the department heads, because, you know,
some -- some departments really may need folks in place, but
other departments may be able to release an employee for an
hour. But I want your consideration of this, and hopefully
your stamp of approval. If you have any questions, please
ask. I love to prattle on about stuff like this.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How will you
identify people who suffer from diabetes?
MS. CHAPMAN: What I'm hoping to do is --
well, there's a couple things. I got all exited telling
Judge Tinley about this. What I thought would be neat to do
is put kind of an advertisement in the pay inserts of the
county checks, and also I have this giant poster that I'd
like to put in the County Courthouse. It's beautiful. It
will -- it will raise the aesthetics of the building.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Every employee who
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might participate in this, how many hours of paid time would
be used?
MS. CHAPMAN: Well, for each employee, it
would be one -- one times six, because there would be six
sessions. And I'd like to keep to about 12, 'cause I know
we can't just have the entire County employees all taking
off to go learn about this, so it would be on a first-come,
first-served basis, the 12 folks to go through it. And then
what I hope to do in Phase II is also take this out to the
financially indigent folks in our community, either through
Salvation Army, Raphael Free Clinic, and then you can really
have some health care savings.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Amy, in the County
employees, do you have any idea how many of the employees
are diabetic?
MS. CHAPMAN: Well, in Texas, the average for
any population is about 6 percent, but here in Kerr County
it's about 6.4 percent of our -- our population is
diabetics, so I would assume it's somewhere between 6 to
6.4 percent of our County employees.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was trying to get an
idea as to, I mean, the cost. I mean, I would hate for a
County employee not to go because of the $15 cost, and if
it's not that much money, I would really recommend that the
County try to find a way to absorb that $15 fee, because I
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just -- I mean, this is one of the things that we can do,
and the -- you know.
MS. CHAPMAN: Be $90.
spring for the 90 bucks, that's fine
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me
might, you're going to do a prelimin
determine if these people are Type 2
diabetic?
If you guys want to
with me.
-- let me -- if I
ary screen to try and
or potentially Type 2
MS. CHAPMAN: Right. We need some sort of
proof. They can get some sort of -- what they can do is
have -- get a referral from their physician for the program,
if they're diabetic. We can also do -- which would be
really neat to do, is a diabetes risk assessment. This has
been shown -- it's a paper assessment, but it's been shown
to be just as accurate as getting those lovely little finger
sticks, so we could do that as well. I think that would be
a neat event to do.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think it would be
appropriate to do some sort of an assessment, and then once
you identify or possibly identify them, select a maximum of
12 at any point in time, and those 12 would be involved in a
six-week program, two hours per week. Now, the $15, when
you consider that the -- the cost also includes their
furnished lunch during that period of time, so they're
probably saving money, if the truth were known. If you
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figure what it costs for lunch for six weeks -- for six
times, why, they're probably saving money. But if there's a
problem, I think the County will get their money back. The
benefit that the County derives is more productivity of the
employee by virtue of their education or being able to
better take care of themselves, less loss of time from work,
lower health care costs to themselves and to the County, and
in the overall scheme of things --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Preaching to the choir
here.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
MS. CHAPMAN: It's much more cost-effective
to educate somebody than it is to have to pay for an
amputation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think any kind
of program you come up with along this line, I'd be totally
supportive of anything that will -- preventive health care,
to me, is where we need to be moving in the County.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We might want to
draw the line at aromatherapy.
MS. CHAPMAN: What's wrong with smelly
candles? I like smelly candles.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to convince
our insurance company, though, to get on board with that
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type of thing, and they will not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree.
MS. CHAPMAN: I would be happy to speak to
somebody from that insurance company sometime, if you ever
-- if the opportunity ever arises.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can start by going
down there and getting your hands around Tommy's neck,
maybe, and choking him a little bit. This is great. This
is fantastic. I'm i0 times -- big-time supportive of it. I
support everything do you, Amy.
MS. CHAPMAN: Well, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And a second, if I can
get it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded by Commissioners Baldwin and Letz that the County
approve the establishment of a wellness program for Kerr
County employees to be overseen by the Extension Service;
specifically, Ms. Chapman. Any further discussion? If not,
all in favor, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We
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appreciate it, Ms. Chapman.
MS. CHAPMAN: All right. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to really save
some money when we get this over into our Indigent Health
Care area. These people don't have a clue that they're
diabetic, don't have a clue what to do about it. They
mainly need to just be educated. What happens is, they get
to a point where they just crash. Then they go to the
hospital on our nickel.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. We might
be able to turn it over to the Airport Board.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we could.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Being as they're
doctors.
JUDGE 'i'INLEY: All right. Any further
action? Anybody have any further business under the items
posted for today? Hearing nothing, I will declare the
meeting adjourned.
(Commissioners Court meeting adjourned at 12:44 p.m.)
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153
STATE OF TEXAS ~
COUNTY OF KERR ~
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 22nd day of April,
2003.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y : ________ _ _ • ~ ______
AG~GCJ'--
Kathy Ban k~Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
4 - _ - - ~ ~

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C:7n thi=. the 1~Eti-~ day of Apr^ii, :=~+Zi~;, ~_iraon motion made by
(~ommissioner• UJilliams, secandecl tag C;ommissioner^ Haldwir,, the
Co~_~rt ~.~nanimo~_~sly approved by a vote of 4-~-~-, the following
name change=s for• privately maintainecj 7~•c,ads in actor^dance
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