1
--, 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
„	^	13
		
		14
		15
		16
		17
		18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Regular Session
Monday, June 9, 2003
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A."BUSTER" BAI~DWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLTAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4

1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,,,., 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
,-,.
25
2
I N D E X
June 9, 2003
PAGE
--- Visitors' Input 4
--- Commissioners' Comments 15
1.1	Approval of R.A.M.P. grant from TexDO for	
	FY 2002/2003 airport improvements ~ ~~~ ~	21
1.2	Report from Third-Party Administrator on pen~~nn	
	reimbursement for claim paid by Kerr County~i ~Fte~~	23
1.3	Approve road name changes for privately main-~ b~	~L~
	tained roads in various locations in Kerr County	26
1.6	Consider order prohibiting fireworks in -S~~~y,~
	unincorporated areas of Kerr County	33
1.7	Consider following matters pertaining to	
	tewater Project:
Kerrville South Was	34
	`~
1 . Flow Meter ~ ~5 ~~~~	35
	2 . Change Order # 3 rZ ~//,;~	39
	~//L~
3. Extend contract with Compton Constructid~	42
	`/
~~	
	4. Waiver of liquidated damages due to delay~'
~~7	45
1.8	Consider implementing "Adopt a County Road"	
	program to pick up trash on county roads	47
1.4	PUBLIC HEARING to cont;ider road name changes	
	for County-maintained roads and regulatory signs	57
1.5	Consider road name changes and regulator signs	
	as discussed in public hearing above ~ ~//S	72
1.9	Consider establishing minimum salary for Kerr	
	County employees	81
1.i0	Consider asking for Request for Proposals for	
	regular, recurring services ,~ ~ f /~j	90
1.11	Consider asking for Request for Proposals for	
	various types of insurance ~ ~'/~`l	96
1.12	Consider asking for Request for Proposals for	
	computer, telephone & technical services ~f~ ~	121
1.13	Consider adopting State Travel Allowance Guide	
	for per diem allowances or reimburseme t of	
	expenses for Kerr County employees ~ ~/~ ~	134
1.14	Approval to apply for Kerr County's portion of	
	unclaimed money received from electric co-ops	145
	c~ ~/ ~	
4.1	Pay Bills ~~~a~	147
4 . 2	Budget Amendments ,~ ~ f IOZ--- ~ ~~~ 9	151
4.3	Late Bills	---
4.4	Read and Approve Minutes ,~ ~ / ~V	159
4.5	Approve and Accept Monthly Reports~~ ~~ 3~
0	i60
5.1	Reports from Commissioners	161
--- Adjourned 164
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,..., 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
3
On Monday, June 9, 2003, at 9:00 a.m., a regular meeting
of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the
Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville,
Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and
gentlemen. I'll call to orc.er the regular Commissioners
Court meeting scheduled for this date, Monday, June the 9th,
at 9 a.m., notice having been posted in accordance with the
applicable law of the state of Texas. And at this point I'd
call on Precinct 1 Commissioner, Buster Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. If you'd
stand and have a word of prayer with me, please, and then
follow me in the pledge of allegiance.
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance,}
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much.
JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, the Court will
hear from citizens who wish to be heard on any matter that
is not on the agenda. Matters that are not on the agenda.
If you desire to be heard on a matter that is on the agenda,
we would ask that you fill out a participation form so that
we won't miss you, but it's not absolutely necessary. If
you'll just let us know when we get to that item, we'll be
happy to hear you. But right now, we're in a position to
hear citizens that wish to be heard on matters that are not
6-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
--~ 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
4
on the agenda. Is there any member of the audience here
that wishes to be heard on a matter that is not on the
agenda? Sheriff?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This definitely is not
on the agenda. We got notified Friday about this. Judge
Tinley's aware of it, but I need to present it, or at least
advise the Court, and then possibly come back at a different
date to ratify it, because I have to be at AACOG Wednesday
morning to be able to accept: it. What it is, as y'all will
remember, in the domestic preparedness stuff, each
jurisdiction had to do a domestic preparedness assessment on
what our county would need, or the different things that we
would like to have in case there were a terrorist attack
or -- or extreme emergency of any type. So, we had to fill
out -- James Graham, Chief Deputy, filled out about a
100-page domestic assessmen-~ deal.
And what Judge Tinley got Friday reads that,
Dear Judge Tinley, the Regional Emergency Preparedness
Advisory Committee took action today to finalize their
funding recommendations from the domestic preparedness
allocation made to AACOG region. These funds are to be used
for the purchase of equipment identified as part of the
domestic preparedness assessment completed by your
jurisdiction. The committee also took action to recommend
the purchase of five decontamination trailers and five
-y-o3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2 1
22
23
24
25
5
communications trailers and two Web EOC servers that will be
placed strategically throughout the region for the benefit
of the entire region. Your county has been identified as a
possible owner/host for a communications trailer. We must
inform you that if you accept the additional allocation of
$80,000 for the purchase of this equipment, that this
ownership carries with it the obligation to house, maintain,
and have trained personnel who will be in charge of this
equipment. Please advise -- be able to met with us on
June 11th at 9 a.m, in the conference room at AACOG to
accept it.
What -- what we have or what we were awarded
for basic funding for our department for -- for equipment
and that for the county was $78,211. For population
funding -- and I'll have to see what their specs are on that
yet -- is another -- an additional $22,596.90. And the
trailer, which would be a communications trailer housed
here, that was offered to the County, it says that the Alamo
Area Council of Governments received notification of
domestic preparedness funding awards in the amount of
$5,613,444 fcr the 32 jurisdictions that completed the
domestic preparedness assessment. One-half of these funds
were designated for allocation to meet regional emergency
preparedness needs in the AACOG region. On June 4th, 2003,
the Regional Emergency Preparedness Advisory Committee
6-~-03
6
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
designated specific funding to be allocated to cities and
counties who agree to accept the additional allocations for
the purpose of specific equipment for the benefit of the
entire AACOG region. Kerr County has been designated to
receive additional funding in an amount not to exceed
$80,000 for purchase of the communications trailer.
In consideration for the additional
allocation of $80,000, Kerr County agrees to, one, purchase
a trailer that meets the specifications set forth by the
Alamo Area Council of Governments Board of Directors through
its Regional Emergency Preparedness Advisory Committee.
Two, house, maintain, and make available this communications
trailer on a 24-hour, 7-day-a-week basis. Three, have
trained personnel who will be responsible for this
equipment. Four, have the required mutual aid agreements in
place and on record with AACOG no later than December 31st,
2003. Five, have basic eme=rgency management plans and
Terrorist Annex V in place with TDPS/DEM no later than
December 31st, 2003. Six, insure completion of training to
weapons of mass destruction operations level within nine
months of receiving the grant award for First Responders
that will be actively supporting a weapons of mass
destruction event. This memorandum of understanding will
remain in effect for a period of five years upon the
signature of the parties. Executed this blank day of 2003.
r-y-o3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

And it would be signed by Judge Tinley.
What this will give us is a communications
trailer that will be housed out at the Sheriff's Office, the
building in the back where some of the records are. We've
already talked to the Maintenance Supervisor, Glenn
Holekamp. Those stored records can be moved out of there,
which would give us an enclosed area for a total
communications trailer to park it and to have it safely
stored. And it would also, I feel -- I haven't seen the
specifications, 'cause they don't come out, I think, until
the 21st, but each jurisdiction only has until the 11th to
respond to this. I feel that it would be a definite added
benefit to Kerr County to have a trailer like this. The
$78,000 and $22,000 we're already getting, but the trailer
itself, where total communication is county-wide and
region-wide, I think we would be foolish if we didn't accept
that. As far as maintaining it, we're already maintaining a
fleet of 43 vehicles. It's no different, especially if it's
stored inside, to maintain ~ trailer that's got a lot of
communications equipment in it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What exactly -- can you
explain what a communications trailer is? I mean,
obviously, I know it's a communications trailer, but what's
in it?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I haven't seen their
6-°-03
8

2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
I3
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
specifications, but what I would assume is going to be in it
is radios that would talk to any jurisdiction within the
region, telephone hookups, totally self-contained,
generator, the whole nine yards, to where you can actually
take it somewhere, hook it Lip and have communications, no
matter what else happens. ~n7e were selected to have it here.
I think Fredericksburg may rave been selected to have one of
the decontamination trailers. And they're placing just the
different things in the areas where they think we're best
suited.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we opted not to
accept the trailer, I presume it will go somewhere else,
like Fredericksburg. So, how -- how is it of benefit to us
to be here instead of there?
SHERIFF HIER:3OLZER: Because we are -- it
says owner/host. Since we are owner/host, if we had another
major disaster, like a fire event like we had a few years
ago, or a large manhunt, I feel it could also be used for
that, because we are the owners of it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we can use it for
our own purposes?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I feel we could, because
we are the owner. I haven't seen their specifications yet,
though. I -- and if there were, you know, a weapons of mass
destruction event somewherE~ around here, it would also be,
6-N-03
9
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
you know, nice for us to be able to have a communications
trailer available immediately instead of having to wait for
another jurisdiction to get it over to us. But it just says
-- now, the Annex V that they talk about has already been
done. Fire departments already have a copy of it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, did I
understand you correctly that the dollar grants are in
addition to the trailer? Or the trailer is in addition to
the dollar grants?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The $78,000 is for our
department for equipment.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERI~OLZER: The $22,000 also comes
to our department. What it states on here -- and I have
to wait till I get to AACOG -- wait till the 21st, when they
put it out. It just says the $78,000 is basic funding. The
$22,000 is population funding, and so I'm not sure what they
mean, you know, in the different -- in what they say it can
be used for.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we accepted the
trailer, would there be any out-of-pocket expenses to us for
training or anything else that might be associated with
being the owner of it?
SHERIFF HIER.HOLZER: At this time, I don't
see that there would be any. Okay, without seeing the
C _ G G 3
10
1
,~ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
f--.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
,-,.
25
specifications, I'm a little bit hesitant, but I don't see
there would be any. TEEX is the agency required to take
care of all the training and. that. I don't know what that's
going to end up being. This is all new to everybody. But
the only out of county pocket is moving those records out of
that building so that we have a place to store it. We
already have about one-third of that building, and this
would move the rest of the records so that we can put that
trailer and the equipment to go along with it inside that
building.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, you mentioned the
11th, is it, the day have you to accept it?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: AACOG expects the
counties to be able to react within three days and accept
this? I think that's ridiculous.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm looking this way
to our representatives for AACOG over here. Y'all need to
go down there and tell them. to get their act together.
JUDGE TINLEY: We received this
communication, most of it, Thursday. As I recall, Thursday.
Now, there was one page that was missing that we didn't get
until Friday. That was the last page of the addendum that
had the allocations. And it was on that page that it told
.-~-G3
11
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
i7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.--,
25
us -- it stopped at Karnes Cc>unty on the first page of the
addendum. Second page, we didn't get. And it was only on
the page that we get Friday that we saw we were getting 76
or 78 plus the 22. And then there was $80,000 on the
trailer, sc effectively, we knew about this completely on
Friday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying.
JUDGE TINLEY: Friday afternoon.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The only thing the
Board knew was that the notices would be forthcoming.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, I just think
it's unreasonable. These are all federal funds coming
through, and they clearly --- you know, I mean, who imposed
the -- the 11th deadline?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who sent you the
letter, Rory Gonzales?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Comes from AACOG by
Aurora Sanchez.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think it's
ridiculous. Personal opinion.
JUDGE TINLEY: At this point, it's my
understanding that we made application for the grant itself
in connection with emergency management. Is that not
correct?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. There was never
E - 4 - '~ i
12
1
2
3
4
J
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
~.
25
any actual application for the grant, okay? We had to do
the assessment, and we had to fill out the assessment. And
AACOG regional was given this $5 million-something from the
Department of Justice from Homeland Security and that to
divide up, depending on how the assessments all turned out.
If you'll remember, Aurora, I believe, was up here a few
months ago and talked about how important it was for the
jurisdictions to all do the assessments because it was
connected with any FEMA funas that the jurisdictions could
get later on during disasters and that, and so that's when
we stepped it up and worked on the assessment to get it
filled out. I think the City of Kerrville was awarded
$79,000 or something. City of Fredericksburg, about
$140,000, depending on the preparedness and that. But I
don't see this as anything but a win-win for the county
either way, to have that ty~oe of trailer housed here.
Having people trained to use communications equipment, we
already have that. Maintaining the trailer is no problem,
and keeping it available is no problem.
COMMISSIONED. LETZ: My concern is that we
haven't read the fine print.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Read everything I have
here.
COMMISSIONE?~ LETZ: I mean, you yourself said
you don't know if -- if we can use it, I mean, for sure or
F,-9-o~
13
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
not, the trailer for our own personal, you know, internal
county things or not. That's why -- my gripe with AACOG is
that they're asking to us mace a decision, or you --
whoever's going down on the 11th, 'cause I'm not -- when you
don't know anything right now.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the one thing it
does say here is owner-slash-host. You are both an owner
and a host.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we empowered to
act on this without it being on the agenda?
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see that we are.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not empowered, but I've
got tc be at -- this is what: I asked the Judge and Thea, is
we have to let them know by the 11th, as far as if we want
to complain or accept or not. And I have to have the
Judge's signature on it. And so I think they advised the
only way we could actually do it on this short of notice was
to do it and ratify it at the next Commissioners Court
meeting.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not -- I mean,
that's not legal.
SHERIFF HIEF:HOLZER: That's what I was told.
COMMISSIONEF; WILLIAMS: Well, you can advise
them of your acceptance, btzt when the paperwork comes out,
if the Court determines that they don't agree with your
E-'~-03
14
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
I7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
acceptance, then that's a whole different ballgame, right?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think it's kind
of arguing something that's kind of pointless. I think it's
probably good to accept all three of them, but it just
annoys me with the time schedule AACOG or whoever put on
this thing.
JUDGE TINLEY: That was the same reaction we
had Friday.
SHERIFF HIER~[OLZER: Pretty close.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I trust that y'all
will pass that on to AACOG, the Board.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have my copy; you're
more than welcome to look a'~ it, but that's exactly what the
Judge received.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe that. I'm not
questioning anyone in the county. I'm questioning AACOG.
(Discussion off the record.)
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was -- you know,
as far as a lot of the equipment that was filled out on the
assessments from all the jurisdictions were things like the
chemical suits, the protective r_lothing, the breathing
apparatuses, all that type of stuff, decontamination stuff
that each jurisdiction would have to have in case there were
something major happen.
E-9-03
15
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
I1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Sheriff?
(Sheriff Hierholzer shook his head.)
COMMISSIONER :BALDWIN: I've got a question.
I want to follcw up on -- I want to ask Number 4's question
a little bit differently. I know you haven't read the fine
print of what they require, et cetera. Do you foresee any
new employees, new cars, new trucks, new guns, badges,
anything to operate this trailer?
SHERIFF HIER~;.OLZER: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: From your department?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you get that?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Get it. I don`t see
anything.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else who has
-- who desires to address the Court on any matter that is
not on the agenda? Any matter that is not on the agenda?
If not, we'll move on to the next item. Commissioner
Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. Comments?
JUDGE TINLE`.Z: Yes.
COMMISSIONERZ BALDWIN: Okay. Were you going
to talk about Tivy baseball?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, you can talk about
F-G-o
16
1 I that.
-^ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
--~ 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I just wanted
to congratulate a couple of our young people in our
community, two Tivy baseball players. One of them was
named -- Will Bernhard, one of our -- he's probably a fifth
generation Kerr County boy -~- was named to the All-State
team over the weekend, which is a great honor. As well as
another young man, Jake McCarter, who was drafted by the
professional baseball -- I can't remember; I think
Cincinnati.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cincinnati.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cincinnati, right
straight out of high school. And the way I understand it,
he's considering going on to college, and -- and not -- not
taking a possible lord's amount of money. But, anyway,
that's absolutely fantastic, and it's just -- just -- Jon
and I were talking about our baseball programs, and not just
Kerrville but in the Texas Hill Country. Watching the Texas
Longhorns play yesterday on TV, they had a kid from Smithson
Valley, a kid from New Braunfels, kid from Boerne, a kid
from Kerrville, you know, our little group right in here,
and it's really something. I don't know -- of course, I
think baseball's a communistic sport; it takes away from
track and field. So, anyway, that's really my only
comments. I wanted to congratulate those two young men. If
6-~-~~3
1
s- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
17
y'all run into them out in the community, pat them on the
back. Very, very well done.
MR. MOORS: N[r. Baldwin, may I say something
about what you just expressed, if I may?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About being
communistic?
MR. MOORS: I_'m Ed More --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless you're going to
argue with me.
MR. MOORS: You know I never argue. We
discuss. Really, that's what it is, discussion. I had the
honor, I used to umpire hig~ school baseball. I came down
from California to Fort Worth; I did Dallas/Fort Worth. I
came here and I did the schools you mentioned, by the way.
I'm going to tell you something. The big city boys think
they're hot. You guys -- you guys, the people that raise
these children, have sat on these fields all over your area.
Some of the finest ball players I've ever umpired.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wow.
MR. MOORS: I mean that seriously. I did
several games for -- with Coach Rippey and his team over the
last three years. I will t=ell you, that team is well
managed. They have a propE:r attitude toward the game. They
understand where they fit in it. Coach Rippey has a --
sometimes he gets a little lively. He's cool. Because
-a-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
18
managers do that. But I'm going to tell you what, I was
really well impressed by what I saw down here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWTN: Thank you very much.
MR. MOORS: And I support what you said about
these fine kids. They really are, all over the area.
COMMISSIONER BALDWTN: We have good kids,
good families.
MR. MOORS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's why the
floodgates are open in Housi~on, and have been for many
years.
MR. MOORS: Well, the parents support them
real well, I'll tell you that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leonard, would you see
that his road gets fixed, please? (Laughter.)
MR. MOORS: Thank you, Buster.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've been
out-of-pocket for about 10 days in the Sierra Mountains of
New Mexico, where there are big flashing signs all over the
area; burn bans, no fires. If you traipse through the
woods, as I did, following a little white golf ball, you see
a lot of trees that are still burned from the last major
F-9-U3
1
2
3
4
5
6

8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
,-~.
25
19
forest fire they had up there. Anyhow, when I came back in
through the high plains of Texas, my brother -- my
brother-in-law's praising God for all the rain that fell on
his irrigated land to keep rim from pulling more water out
of the aquifer, and I noticed all the way down from Farwell,
Texas, which is on the Texas/New Mexico birder, all the way
down to almost Menard, water in tree bar ditches standing,
which is a good sight to see. I'm not sure how much we got
here, whether it was one, two, three, four or more inches,
but whatever it is, it's a k>lessing. So, it was a good
trip. Good to be back. Town didn't burn down when I was
gone, and that's good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further?
(Commissioner Williams shook his head.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couple of comments.
First, I'd like to thank Commissioner Baldwin for his
exhortaticns of baseball. Appreciate that. And also, I
might mention one additional comment; I believe this is
accurate. I think Jake McCarter is the first Tivy baseball
player ever to get drafted out of high school. There's
quite a few who've gone on to college, several that are in
the pros at various levels and things, but I believe he's
the first to come out and be drafted out of high school.
From talking -- my understanding is he is going to go to
-y-o~
1
2
3
4
5
5
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
20
college probably, and he'll go to Navarro Junior College.
He's going to work with Skip Johnson, who's an outstanding
pitching coach, which is why he's going there. Secondly,
I'd like to offer my condolences, from myself and the Court,
to the family of Arthur Flach in Comfort. Arthur is someone
I've known all my life; finE~, fine person. I think you can
sum it up best by how he is known to the community. What
I've called him all my life is "Bruder," and bruder is
brcther in German. I think he's a fine individual, passed
away. Offer condolences to his family. That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We had a funeral in
Kerrville last week for Ms. Oma Bell Perry, who was 90 years
old when she died. She was a resident of Hillcrest at the
time she died, but as I thi:~k all of you know, she spent 75
of her 90 years on Big Springs Ranch over in Real County,
and she's been a terrific friend of the Hill Country Youth
Ranch. She's given them -- given us that 7,500-acre ranch,
and it's probably, arguably, the prettiest piece of property
in North America. And all of that ranch and those assets
will go to help children here in Kerr County and in Real
County. Funeral was more of a celebration. She was a
remarkable woman. That's all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We'll move right
into the consideration agenda. First item is the
6-9-03
21
r
1
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
consideration and approval of Routine Airport Maintenance
Program grant from TexDOT for Fiscal Year 2002 and '03
airport improvements. Mr. Pearce?
MR. PEARCE: Judge Tinley and Commissioners,
I'm Dave Pearce; I'm the Airport Manager for the Kerr
County/Kerrville Municipal F,irport, Louise Schreiner Field.
What you have before you today is a grant which would be
$30,000 for routine airport maintenance. In that, we can
concrete ar, area which is termed as the old EEAA facility
and an entrance road there, drainage improvements that would
go also near that area, for the entrance road to go up to
that. We have an opportunity to purchase some herbicide,
and we also have an opportu:~ity to purchase some of the
fencing in the long-range plan that would go completely
around the airport, This is an opportunity where we have
funds available. It is for this year. It is $30,000 that
we have already in our budget, $30,000 that we will get by
the State, and if we utilize it and spend it before
September, we can proceed with that. Mary of these projects
are things that we have to do. For instance, the herbicide,
there was already plans to go out and purchase it, I had
kind of stopped it at that point, because there -- we can go
ahead and utilize a 50-50 match, so there's some
improvements that were already contemplated, but we can
utilize R.A.M.P. funds for that. So, I ask that you support
5-9-03
22
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
..-. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.-~
25
us on this. I do apologize to the Court; I did need to make
a couple of changes in the documents you have before you,
and I have those with me. The only changes were the budget
numbers that were in there cn Section 3. I have those
documents here for you. I apologize for that, that I didn't
get those to you before today.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You mean the account
numbers?
MR. PEARCE: The account numbers. But that
will have to be the signature that's on this one for the
account numbers -- if I may?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you say that we
have $30,000 budgeted now?
MR. PEARCE: Yes, we do. We have those in
our budgets. I'm not asking for additional moneys. I'm
just asking so that we have the authority to execute the
documents and spend the moneys that are there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City Council will
take action on this in its meeting tomorrow?
MR. PEARCE: Yes, sir, tomorrow. And then I
have to have these to TexDOT by the -- I believe it's the
12th or the 14th of this month to be able to process that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the funds are
available for immediate --
r-G-O
23
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.--
25
MR. PEARCE: Funds are available right now.
It's already been verified with the finance; we've already
reviewed it. We've got it there. We're ready to go. And
I'm the one that generated t=his. I apologize that it's a
little bit reactionary, but it was an opportunity to capture
some additional funds, and that's why I'm pushing for it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move
approval, Judge, of the joint resolution authorizing
execution of grant agreement pursuant to Texas Department of
Transportation's Routine Airport Maintenance Program for
airport repairs/improvements at Kerrville/Kerr County
Municipal Airport.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded by
Commissioner Williams and Baldwin, respectively, that the
Court approve a joint resolution. Any further discussion or
questions? If not, all in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item
that we have is to discuss and consider the review aria
report from Third-Party Administrator and insurance
representative on pending reimbursement for claim paid by
F-_-~~
24
1
--- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
,,,,_ 2 4
25
Kerr County on behalf of an employee. I don't see
Mr. Rothwell here today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Mr. Finley.
JUDGE TINLEY: Nor Mr. Finley. Actually, I
don't see Mr. Finley becausf~ I'd only requested Mr. Rothwell
to be present, by letter dared May 14, I believe -- yes.
Indicating in that letter, when I asked him for certain
documents or copies of the same, that I was going to ask for
an update at our June 9th meeting. I'm somewhat surprised
that he isn't here. If the Court would recall --
Commissioner Baldwin is smiling. Maybe he's not surprised.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you really
surprised?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, I am. Yes, I am. The
only thing I can report to the Court is that after -- I know
he got the letter, because I saw him in the hall of the
courthouse here a week or so ago, and he indicated that he
had received it and that he was putting together the
information that I requested. And he also told me at that
time that he had -- he believed that -- that there was some
more money -- approximately $30,000, as I recall -- that he
felt like would be received, and that he had just paid or
was in the process of getting paid to the Auditor something
just under 30 -- approximately $27,000, as I recall. And
that he had a couple of thcughts about -- a couple of
E-u-os
25
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
approaches. So, yes, I am surprised that he's not here,
especially after indicating to him that we want to be
updated at this meeting.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the day is
early. Maybe he'll walk in. I trust that he's -- that he
would meet your needs.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With a check in his
hand.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With a check in his
hand.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I wasn't expecting a
check in his hand. But, Mr. Tomlinson, have you talked with
Mr. Rothwell of late concerning the -- the elusive $258,000?
MR. TOMLINSON: I have not.
JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Well --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Judge, let me
suggest maybe -- maybe Thea could phone someone. He offices
in San Antonio, doesn't he?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe Mr. Finley would
know where he is; remind him that he needs to be here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I would have thought a
letter would have been adequate.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's fine with
me.
6-9-U3
26
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
JUDGE TINLEY: Especially since he
acknowledged he received it. I suspect probably what's
going to be necessary to do is put this matter on the agenda
for next trip, and issue an appropriate notice that I feel
will secure his presence.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. I agree
with you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is
consider approving road name changes for privately
maintained roads in various locations in Kerr County in
accordance with 911 guidelines.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Morning, Truby.
MS. HARDIN: Good morninq. We have -- on
your cover sheet, we have eight roads listed. In your
backup, there's a ninth one that somehow didn't get on the
printout, which I would like to add that one to it, if
possible. It is -- let's see.
one, Truby?
Neuhaus.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Which is the ninth
MS. HARDIN: Neuhaus. Shady Creek Road to
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What precinct?
23				

24
,~-.				
25				
	6-	5-	U3
MS. HARDIN: Four.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Comanche Caves.
MS. HARDIN: Should be the last two pages of
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
27
the backup.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There are none in my
precinct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I qot one.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just have one
question on Neuhaus Road. Do we know if anybody lives on
that road besides J.V. Neuhaus, III?
MS. HARDIN: No, sir, I don't.
COMMISSIONER BALDWiN: I can tell you. No.
MS. HARDIN: We received approval from 911,
so I'm assuming that all of it's been done.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mostly it's Precinct
4, and I'm okay with all of it..
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second the motion.
JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't hear the motion.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we
approve the road changes as -- as indicated in this
document.
JUDGE TINLEY:
ar.d seconded by Commissioners
respectively, that we approve
privately maintained roads in
County in accordance with 911
Road and Bridge. Any further
COMMISSIONER N
All right. Motion's been made
Nicholson and Williams,
the road name changes for
various locations in Kerr
guidelines, as presented by
discussion or questions?
ICHOLSON: Just for the people
-~-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
_-. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
28
in the audience sake, the read names -- new road names are
Lago Vista, Cane, Mesquite, Cactus, Terry, Shermans Mill,
Graves, Roaring Rock, and Neuhaus.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or
discussion? Tf not, all in favor of this motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item
on the agenda --
SHERIFF HIERI-3OLZER: Judge?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge?
reference to this deal on tl~e trailer. I just talked to
him. I did get a little bi-~ more information, which is,
number one, yes, the traile;~ could be used for anything you
have in your -- your county, whether it's even working a
festival or anything else; it's just part of it. Trailer
would be equipped with at 1~~ast 10 radios and some plug-in
connections to where it can go anywhere and be operated
anywhere. They see doing interlocal agreements, like if
Bexar County needed it, the_~e would be an interlocal
agreement between Bexar County to where we wouldn't even
h-5-o~
29
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
l~
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
,_ 2 4
25
have to supply personnel fo_r it. They would take it, use it
for their event, and be responsible for maintaining it while
they have it and replace anything in it. He said what he
would recommend, because TEEX is the one that put that short
deadline on them, TEEX has i-o know by the 13th, so they have
to know by the 11th. He would recommend, on the letter of
understanding, that the Judge sign it if we're interested
and write on the bottom, "To be ratified by Commissioners
Court on such-and-such date,." being the next date -- the
next Commissioners Court. ..t just gives them an idea that,
yes, you are interested in i_t. But it would also supply
portable radios with it that would be programmed to the
federal channels, federal frequencies or any other ones that
you would need.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You said something that
caught my ear. You said if Bexar County was using it and
something was missing or whatever, they -- it would be
replaced.
SHERIFF HIERF{OLZER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That implies maintenance
and repairs.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under theirs, if they
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, no, I'm talking about
when it's in our county. I'm going back to when it's in
6-9-03
30
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Kerr County. I mean, all of -- everything, every equipment
has a life expectancy --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- of three, five years
for that type of stuff, generally. Is there any kind of --
is this a -- is there an obligation that Kerr County
maintains and repairs and u~~dates those, or will it be
budgeted?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There
that Kerr County maintains the equipment.
we are the owners of it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
contemplates having a time F~eriod from --
have to maintain.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Memor
years.
is an obligation
We have -- 'cause
And that
as to how long we
andum is five
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five years. So, if a
radio breaks in the five-year period, is it covered by
warranty or do we have to pay for it?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of them are covered
by warranty for one to two years.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So the answer is that we
will probably have a budget --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Replacing a radio. If
we had to replace a radio.
E-G-., _,
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
~.. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
31
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- impact there of some
sort. Okay. Don't count on my vote, necessarily, till I
read the fine print. -
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just saying we have
to have an answer to them by the 11th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's not yet
10 o'clock, so we'll move on to Item Number 1.6.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Excuse me. Were we
going to act on this today?
JUDGE TINLEY: We can't.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't. You can make a
comment.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. I thought I
heard the suggestion that w~~ make a memorandum of
understanding, and part of that understanding would be that
it doesn't have final approval, but --
JUDGE TINLEY: Subject to ratification at the
Commissioners Court meeting on the fourth Monday of this
month.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. So, if we
don't ar_.t, I think not acting means we're not going to take
the communication trailer.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not necessarily.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We11, what's the
E-_ .,~
32
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
alternative?
JUDGE TINLEY: The alternative would be that
the memorandum of understanding would be executed subject to
ratification by this Court.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, are you going to
do that?
JUDGE TINLEY: On the fourth Monday of this
month.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you going to
make a memorandum of unders-sanding?
JUDGE TINLEY: I haven't made a decision on
that yet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're probably
safe in accepting. You can always opt out of these things,
generally.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can say no, we don't
want the trailer, or give the trailer back the day we get
it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My point is, if we
do nothing and the Judge decides not to make a letter of
understanding --
JUDGE TINLEY: We're out.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- we're opted out.
So --
E-a-o?
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
-- 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
33
JUDGE TINLEY: That would be correct.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As long as
everybody's clear.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 1.6, consider and
discuss and take appropriate action adopting an order
prohibiting certain fireworks in unincorporated areas of
Kerr County, and/or to determine whether or not to designate
one or more safe areas where the use of restricted fireworks
is not prohibited, and the determination of those locations
if that option is selected. Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I put this on the
agenda, Judge, before I left for a week's vacation, because
there is a deadline for a county to act if it intends to ban
fireworks, aerial fireworks particularly, for the 4th of
July and so forth and so on. And when I placed it on the
agenda, we had not received any rain, so I don't know what
the sense of the Court is about putting it on. I don't want
to engage in a huge debate about whether or not this should
or should not be made, but if it's something that the Court
doesn't particularly wart to do, it c
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
year and the year before an~~ the year
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
regulating people.
an be withdrawn.
I'm the same as last
before. No.
Refresh my memory.
Not interested in
r"-9-03
34
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I feel the same way.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's just withdraw
it, then, if there's not any sense of the Court.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right, 1.6 is withdrawn.
Let's move on to item 1.7. Consider, discuss, and take
appropriate action on a matter pertaining to Kerrville South
Wastewater Project; specifically, approve payment to City of
Kerrville for the installation of a flow meter as required
by sewage treatment contract between U.G.R.A. and City of
Kerrville. Approve Change Order Number 3 to increase the
contract with Compton Construction by $8,260, increasing the
total to 375,694 -- $375,694. Purpose, to connect
Ripplewood and Ranchero Roads. Extend the contract with
Compton Construction to Sepi:ember 30th of 2003, and reduce
retainage from 10 percent to 5 percent. And waiver of
liquidated damages due to delays beyond control of
contractor.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's four items
that need to be addressed, Judge, and so I put them on the
agenda, and I've invited Dare Tucker of Grantworks to come
down to visit with the Court and to discuss each of these
items with you so we have a better, more clear understanding
of what -- what's it's all about and where the project is.
I've also invited Mr. Compton to come into the Court to tell
us a little bit about the extension of the contract and his
-y-o3
1
..-, 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
35
request fcr a waiver of liquidated damages. So, with that
introduction, Dave Tucker, welcome to Kerrville again.
MR. TUCKER: Thank you. Judge,
Commissioners, good morning. The first item on here is
regarding the flow meter. As you may know, after this
project is installed, the Upper Guadalupe River Authority
will own the pipes, but the City of Kerrville will process
the wastewater. Installation of this flow meter will allow
the City of Kerrville to know the volume of wastewater
coming out of this portion so they can, in turn, bill
U.G.R.A., U.G.R.A. can in turn bill the residents for this
amount. I have a letter from Howard Jackson with City of
Kerrville with some price quotes on how much the flow meter
would cost. City of Kerrville will do the installation at
nc charge, so the total cost: will about be about $15,000.
And I have an e-mail from the Office of Rural Community
Affairs assuring that if we request that that's funding paid
for in grant funds, that draw-down request will be approved
and paid for. So, Mr. Jackson requested that Kerr County
give him some assurances that if the flow meter materials
were purchased and installed, that the County, in turn,
would request a grant reimbursement to pay for it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I think it
might be appropriate if we took each of these four items
separately, as opposed to a blanket approval.
E-5-~~
36
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Question.
MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir?
JUDGE TINLEY: Is the cost of the flow
meter -- are there funds within the grant moneys to take
MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. We have --
JUDGE TINLEY: Funds are available?
MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir, funds are available.
We had a favorable bid opening quite some time ago, and we
do have plenty of available funds to pay for this flow
meter. If the funds are not expended within the project
area specifically to benefit= the residents that the project
were apolied for, then they need to be deobligated and sent
back to the State. So, if we have an opportunity to spend
it within the project area for a necessary improvement, I
think it's a good idea. And it will also facilitate the
interlocal agreement between the City and U.G.R.A.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The City's going to
install that at no cost to the project?
MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir. May I point out that
there's no cost to the County for this at all, but yes, sir,
that's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I would move
approval of the payment to the City of Kerrville for
installation of -- for the purchase of and installation of
F - G - r i
1
2
3
37
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
the flow meter as required by the treatment agreement and
authorize the County Judge to advise the City that we will
apply for the necessary expenditure of the grant funds.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Notion made and seconded key
Commissioners Williams and ]3aldwin, respectively, that the
Court approve payment to the City of Kerrville for the
installation of a flow meter, as required by the U.G.R.A./
City of Kerrville sewage treatment contract. Any further
discussion or questions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a clarification.
Is part of that motion that the amount is not to exceed
$15,000 and that the City of Kerrville install it at no
cost?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's make sure we
have an amount. Not to exceed -- is 15 an even number? An
exact amount, Dave?
MR. TUCKER: That was based on three quotes
for each individual item to be installed, which includes a
metering manhole with a transducer, terminal unit. TherP's
a couple other technical engineering construction things on
here, but based on those quotes, he did come out to exactly
$15,000. Remaining grant funds for this project total
$30,000, so there is not much danger of cost overrun beyond
available grant funds, but I think that's a pretty firm
22
23
,.-~ 2 4
25
19
20
21
b ~ - 0 3
38
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
number. And that does include no money charged by City of
Kerrville for installation. This $15,000 is strictly for
materials.
8
9
10
11
12
,- 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to exceed?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was -- you know, to me,
if there's something else that comes up, we need to make
sure we have some other funds available. I'd hate to have
inflation of the amount.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to exceed -- we
can include a "not to exceed". That's fine with me.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the City of Kerrville's
doing the installation at no labor cost?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my
understanding.
MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir, that's correct. If I
may, if other situations do come up which may put us in
danger of exceeding available grant funds, the State will
allow us to reduce the scope of the project to keep it
within budget.
JUDGE TINLEY: Are those -- are those
clarifications and/or amendments ar_ceptable to you,
Commissioner Baldwin?
23
,,~ 2 4
25
COMMISSIONER 13ALDWIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further
discussion or questions? All in favor of the motion as
20
21
22
s-y-o3
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
..-._ 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.--
25
39
amended, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll move
on to Change Order Number 3.
MR. TUCKER: As y'all may know, this -- there
are four grant projects total to provide complete sewer
service to the entire Kerrv~_lle South area. Most of these
executions have been about t:he -- yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not the entire
Kerrville South area. The entire project as originally
speed out .
MR. TUCKER: Yes. Yes, pardon me. So we are
discussing right here the first of four grant projects. I'm
happy to say that now all four have been recommended for
funding by O.R.C.A., so we're looking at us doing this till
about 2006, but all of those projects were applied for
independently. They have to be applied for as separate,
independent projects, not interdependent on whether one or
another gets funded. However, when it's all said and done,
we -- it would be best if they were all combined into one
large project. The nature of this change order is basically
to provide a connection line between the sewer services that
we're providing in the Oak Grove Mobile Home Park area to
.-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
-^ 2 4
25
40
tl^~e sewer services we'll be working to provide on the
Ranchero Road area. It's a connection between those two.
Mr. Compton and the engineer, Kamran Kaviani, prepared this
change order. It would cost this amount to connect these
two projects. It was always the intent of the application
to have at least projects kind of be married into one, and
this change order facilitates that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My question, Dave, is
since the -- the sewer line will not -- on Ranchero Road is
the last to be laid --
MR. TUCKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- or the last part
of the project --
MR . TTJCKER : Mm-hmm .
COMMISSIONER nILLIAMS: -- when would this
Ripplewood connection take place?
MR. TUCKER: I -- I'm not entirely sure. I
don't believe the connection would be made till the Ranchero
Road line, 'cause it hasn't been installed yet. I believe
it would just basically stub out to the Ranchero area.
Again, we had a favorable bid opening on this project. We
can't predict how favorable the bid opening will be in the
future, and since we have ample grant funds available, it
seemed logical to expend the grant funds on this project
while there is extra and can go ahead and make the
n-~-n3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
41
connection now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you would lay the
Ripplewood piece and stub it at Ranchero?
MR. TUCKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then the
connection -- actually, the connection would take place at
the next phase, and stub the line at Ranchero Road; is that
correct?
MR. TUCKER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I would move
approval of Change Order Number 3 to increase the contract
for Compton Construction by $8,260, and increasing total to
$375,695 for the purpose of connecting -- ultimately
connecting Ripplewood and Ranchero Road.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's made and seconded by
Commissioners Williams and Baldwin, respectively, that
Change Order Number 3 to the Kerrville South Wastewater
Project contract be approved to increase that contract with
Compton Constructicn by $8,260, which would increase the
total cost of the project to $375,694, for the purpose of
hopefully connecting Ripplewood and Ranchero Road.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hear --
JUDGE TINLEY: Any discussion or questions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hear two numbers.
E-G-r3
42
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
We're only talking about a dollar, but might as well get it
right. In one spot it says the total is $375,694. Another
spot, it has $375,695. Does anyone know?
MR. TUCKER: $375,695. I have a copy of the
change order.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 695?
MR. TUCKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not 694?
JUDGE TINLEY: UJith that correction -- thank
you, Commissioner -- any further discussion or questions?
All in favor of the motion as stated, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Now, the
extension of the contract with Compton Construction to
September 30th and reduction of retainage from 10 to
5 percent.
MR. TUCKER: Is Mr. Compton here? Ron, would
you mind coming up?
MR. COMPTON: Good morning, gentlemen.
JUDGE TINLE'~: Morning.
MR. COMPTON: As far as extending the
contract, we've run into some problems with the golf
-a-u~
43
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2i
22
23
24
tournament out there at Rive=shills. We had it scheduled to
be completed by August 1st, and they ran a golf tournament
in on us on June 25th, so we can't start before then; we
start after then. And then I've got another one scheduled
for April -- August the 7th or 15th, so we're goinq to lay
part of the line and then close down, get out of their way,
let them do their golf tournament, and hopefully we'll be
finished real soon after that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't it amazing, a
country club would put a go,_f tournament before a sewer
line? (Laughter.)
MR. COMPTON: They're not interested in a
sewer line.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- I don't have
any problem with that, but I do have a problem with the
retainage that we're talking about.
MR. COMPTON: What happened is, there's a
10 percent retainage right now, and this thing -- of course,
it's gone on -- been over a year now, and I've got material
that we ordered and paid for, and I'd like to get maybe part
of that retainage to -- to carry on some of the -- for some
of the material that I've purchased and what-have-you.
MR. TUCKER: That is specifically related to
the delays in construction?
25 ~ MR. COMPTON: Yeah, right.
6-G-03
44
1
--, 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
~.
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do people do that? I
really don't know from -- really don't know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It happens.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I really don`t
know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Make a motion; I`ll
second it. We'll go on to t:he next one.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I would move
extension of the contract for the sewer project for Compton
Construction to September 30, and reduce the retainage from
10 percent to 5 percent.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded by Commissioners Williams and Baldwin,
respectively, that we extend tree contract with Compton
Construction to September 30, 2003, and reduce the retainage
from 10 percent to 5 percent. Any further questions or
discussion?
COMMISSIONEF: NICHOLSON: Is the contract
between, Kerr County and Compton Construction?
COMMISSIONEF~ WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR. TUCKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How was it awarded?
What was the process that we used?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We went through a bid
E-G-.,~
45
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
process.
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. TUCKER: If I may --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm glad to see a
Kerr County contractor doing this job instead of somebody
else.
MR. COMPTON: I am too.
	COMMISSIONER	NICHOLSON: That`s all.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: Mr. Compton was the
low out of --	low out of fou	r or five bidders.
	MR. TUCKER:	Advertised in the local paper,
and there was	a bid opening,	bid tabulation.
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Any further questions or
discussion?	If not, all in	favor of the motion, signify by
raising your	right hand.	
	(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
	JUDGE TINLEY:	All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next
question is the waiver of liquidated damages due to delays
beyond control of contractor.
MR. TUCKER: This really goes part and parcel
with Section 3. There have -- well, first of all, the
delays were in the last summer. Extensive flooding delayed
start of construction, if I remember.
6-9-03
46
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
,,,._, 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. COMPTON: Right. We delayed the -- three
days after we signed the contract, of course, came the
flood, and Camp Meetinq Creek turned into Camp Meeting Lake.
And we haven't been able -- weren't able to get back in
there till November. And in November, we went ahead and did
the bull work, the first two manholes and tie manhole, so
that part's done, and we shut it down to let the Riverhills
Country Club have it back for a while until they could start
again, which they wanted to start June the 15th. And when
they ran this tournament in on us on the 28th or 25th -- I
don't remember when -- we c~~n't start it till after that,
then. So, we still need about 40 days to complete the
project, so we're just asking that liquidated damages be
waived till September the 30th.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to
address that, Judge, the question that we put the -- put the
stop date at September 30 or October 1st; liquidated damages
would again begin on October lst if he failed to meet the
completicn date. That will. coincide with the extension, so
I would move that the waiver of liquidated damages be waived
until October -- till September 30, due to delays beyond the
contractor's control.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion`s been made and
seconded by Commissioner Williams and Baldwin, respectively,
_-9-03
47
1
2
3
4
5
E
7
8
9
10
li
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
that the liquidated damages in the contract due to delays
beyond the control of contr~~ctor be delayed through
September 30, 2003.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much.
JUDGE TINLEY: We've got a few more minutes.
Let's move to 1.8, consider and discuss implementing "Adopt
a County Road" program to pick up trash on county roads.
Commissioner Letz.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda
at the request of some constituents in the county that
thought it would be a good idea. I concur; I think it's a
good idea. And, after talking with Road and Bridge, I think
we're kind of doing this unofficially in areas anyway. But
what the program -- what I envision is, I think it's -- my
constituents envision something very similar to what TexDOT
does. Someone who wants to designate a portion of a county
road, up to -- has to be a 2-mile stretch minimum, the
.,-u-o
48
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,.., 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2i
22
23
24
25
County would put up a recognition sign, if they so choose.
We would supply trash bags, safety vests, and then pick up
the trash or allow a spot for them to deposit the trash. I
put it on the agenda to see if there was enough interest on
the Court to pursue it, and if there is, I will get with
probably Road and Bridge, 'c:ause they're the most -- you
know, get with them, lay definite guidelines and costs that
would go in the budget. There would be some cost; I don't
think it would be significant. It's really more just an
idea to see if it's -- what the feeling of the Court is.
MR. ODOM: Y~~u turned your head,
Commissioner, when you said something about money. What was
that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said I would get with
Road and Bridge Department and figure out what the cost is
so it could be included in the budget.
MR. ODOM: May I address the Court?
JUDGE TINLEY: Come forward, Mr. Odom. Happy
to have you here.
MR. ODOM: Happy to be here. I would like to
pass to the Court a program, that TexDOT has now --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's --
MR. ODOM: -- which is what the Commissioner
is talking about. And I rE~ally haven't had a lot -- and I
haven't had a -- a chance t.o talk to Commissioner Letz yet
F-G-~~
49
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,.-. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
~,,, 2 4
25
about it, but I would ask the Court to study this, because
it has to do with tort liabilities and responsibilities. It
has to do with trash pickup, paying for dumping, and it's
already going forward now. But I have to supply signs, I
have to supply vests, I have to supply the trash bags, which
we do now. But internally, Commissioner Williams is doing
that in Precinct 2, and it's worked very well. We have no
problems that way, but we're talking about $100 per sign,
probably. The blank itself for the sign is $25. It costs
us -- you're running $75 -- $72 for a street sign, so a
couple hundred dollars there. You can see the list of --
you know, do we have to make a list of the roads? It gets
complicated, Commissioner, and my life's complicated as it
is. Being an Aggie, it's jest natural.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree it's a cost to
it, but it's also a cost to the County -- or a benefit to
the County in dollars by having private citizens cleaning up
on our roads, as opposed to having County personnel, Road
and Bridge, or community service do it and have -- and the
oversight of community service. So, I mean, there's a cost
either way. It's just whether we try to get the community
involved in it or whether we continue to do -- you know, as
it is. As you said, it is being done right now. From a
tort liability standpoint, if they're doing it -- I mean, it
they're doing it, they're doing it, whether we have this
F,-S-r ~
50
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
~- 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
..-. 2 4
25
policy in place or not. I think the cost of the signs is an
issue, especially if they'rF~ stolen; I mean, we have to
replace them. But that's why I think you need some sort of
a two-year commitment. Most; of the -- a portion of the
backup is already what I gave the Court, the TexDOT -- same
packet I got from them, you have here, pretty much handed
out. It's just an idea. I mean, I'm not going to -- you
know, it isn't a huge issue to me. I think it's a good
idea, and if our citizens want to help beautify the county,
I think they should be recognized.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, too. I think --
I think it's a great program, Commissioner. I would
certainly -- I'm going to balk at the 2-mile minimum,
though, because there are some areas that -- you know, you
may have a subdivision with half a mile total that you would
want to be a part of the program. So, maybe -- maybe we
ought to go back and just read the fine print and see -- see
if there's some other areas that we need to rewrite. But
I'm all for it. I mean, we do it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question,
Len. This handout you gave us has several sheets called
Highway Litter Pickup Dates, and it lists several -- many
cryanizations. Are these organizations already in place
doing this?
MR. ODOM: Those are on the list for the
~~-y-o~
51
1
^^ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
..-.
25
Highway Department, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: State Highway.
MR. ODOM: State Highway, not for ours.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. ODOM: Now, in your precinct, the J.P.
takes care of it.
COMMISSIONER VIILLIAMS: Yeah.
MR. ODOM: I asked the J.P.'s what their
opinion was and how it would interfere with their program
they have, and the J.P. in Precinct 2 takes care of it. We
asked in 4, and Judge Ragsdale says that he's somewhat leery
of doing it because of tort liabilities of asking someone to
go out on the roadway and if_- something should happen. I'm
not saying it's not a good program. I'm just asking you to
ponder this for a little bii~ and let us have a little bit of
time to see, because I -- I'm -- you know, I can tell you,
when I give the vest out, I'll never get the vest back,
and -- and they're not cheap. So, I've got signs to put
out. Do these people take the time to do the safety
programs? What are the tort liabilities in that aspect? Do
I have to inspect them? I'm just asking the Court to
consider the program. It is certainly a very viable
program, but it is functior;ing internally through the
J.P.'s. I don't know --
COMMISSIONED LETZ: Is that true? Two of the
E-9-G3
52
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
people who told me live on E]_m Pass Road in Precinct 2 that
want this, so clearly their 7;oads are dirty. I can look on
any road in my precinct --
COMMISSIONER GVILLIAMS: I've probably got
three of the worst, Elm Pass and Stoneleigh and Center Point
River Road. One of the prettiest drives in Kerr County is
the one that's spoiled the most.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I want the
community -- community service people out there when they're
available. But my question is, how -- who finds these
groups to do this? Do we have to do this?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Purely volunteer.
MR. ODOM: It:'s volunteer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: TexDOT's program -- I
mean, I talked to Corinna, the lady who manages it locally
in Kerr County for them, and she says it`s very simple; very
little for them to do. You know, she keeps a spreadsheet;
she keeps track of them. I think theirs is a little bit
more structured than we need, personally, but, you know,
it's -- that's why I brought it before the Court, to see if
there's an interest in pursuing it. If there is, I'll
pursue it. If not, I won't. Doesn't make that much
difference, but I just think that it's a -- I mean, the tort
liability issue that J.P. Ragsdale had, I mean, well,
6-ti-03
53
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
clearly, the State doesn't think it's that bad, and they're
talking about a lot worse situations. So -- and I think the
biggest concern that I have is the cost. And there is a
budget cost, and in tight budget times, that could be the
thing that kills it, to me, more than anything else. But
there is also a benefit to keeping our roads clean, and
we're currently -- there's a cost to doing that the way
we're doing it right now.
MR. ODOM: Maybe. But if we put the signs
out, do we have to have per~>etual maintenance on that? Like
I say, it is expensive. It's even more expensive --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any
problem with the concept; I think the concept's good. If we
can get people -- organizations to step forward, that`s
fine.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you, after --
after the newspaper writes the article on today's
conversation, they're going to be beating your door down,
offering you money.
COMMISSIONER. WILLIAMS: You're kidding.
COMMISSIONER. BALDWIN: Yeah, it's going to
happen.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can hardly wait.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. I'm pretty
exited about it, too.
6-9-~3
54
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER PdICHOLSON: I like the concept a
lot, and I think the State program does a lot of good. I
also notice that Highway 27, 39, 41, and 1340 are pretty
trashy today because of all of the summer guests. I've
actually worked on one of the cleanup crews one time, and I
came away from there angry with all the stuff we dug out of
the bushes.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, Lotto tickets and
everything else. I wish the State of Texas would do -- I
won't bash that. But I -- t;here's -- if you -- and I had
the Scouts -- I had a Scout group between the V.A. Hospital
and the dump, and we chose it specifically to keep the boys
busy, and it does make you mad, the trash you pick up.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Anyhow, I like the
concept. I've got the same concerns about costs that
everybody else does. If, somehow, we could overcome that
hurdle, then I -- I think it's a good thing to do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, some of that
cost actually won't be there, because currently Road and
Bridge supplies bags and vests and so forth already.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think they're
going to be pounding down our doors to do this. I mean, I
think it's -- if we have --- TexDOT has -- I mean, on their
list they have maybe 20 foz~ the -- in the county.
MR. ODOM: I just ask the Court to ponder it
F-a-o3
55
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
before --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're right.
MR. ODOM: -- taking action. That's all I
have.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're exactly
right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: "Citizens of Hunt,
Texas," I know that somebody's taken a piece of tape and put
it over the "S" so it's just. "Citizen of Hunt, Texas."
Apparently only one member left in that group.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pointed at you?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Edward T. Moore? Do you
have anything to address the Court on with respect to this
Adopt-a-Highway program?
MR. MOORS: No, sir, I have nothing. Thank
you.
JUDGE TINLEY: You had filled out a
participation form, and --
MR. MOORS: Maybe later, when you're through,
there may be something I'd like to discuss.
JUDGE TINLEY: My reason for calling upon
you, sir, it says, "Which agenda items do you wish to
address?" And your response was "Any."
MR. MOORS: Yes, sir. At the end of the
meeting, there may be somet=hing I`d like to address.
-y-o3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
56
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. If I needed to
call on you as to each item on the agenda, I wanted to be
sure.
MR. MOORS: No, sir, not necessary. I
appreciate it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
MR. MOORS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, my question is,
I'm -- you want me to come back with definite -- with
definite costs and definite guidelines? Is that it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'm
prepared to act on it, myse:Lf.
COMMISSIONER LET7: I don't think the rest of
the Court is. I don't need to have the definite -- I mean,
the actual guidelines?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If I have some idea
what the costs are, then I'm ready to act on it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, I'll bring it
back.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If it's a couple
thousand dollars, it's one thing. If it's 20, it's another.
JUDGE TINLEY: No one wishes to offer a
motion at this time? At this time, the Court will recess
the Commissioners Court meeting, and will convene and open a
public hearing to consider road name changes for
6-y-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
i0
11
1 L
--- 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
,,,,,_ 2 4
25
57
county-maintained roads and regulatory signs in various
locations in Kerr County. That public hearing was
advertised and set for 10 a.m. this morning. I apologize,
it's a few minutes after. Vile had to finish up that one
item, and had we not done so, we would have started too
early. So, better late than early.
(The regular Commissioners Court meeting was
closed at 10:08 a.m., and a public hearing
was held in open court, as follows:)
P U B L I C H E A R I N G
JUDGE TINLEY: I will now call for any public
comment on road name changes for county-maintained roads and
regulatory signs in various locations in Kerr County.
Mr. Kuyper?
MR. KUYPER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Did you wish to be heard on
this?
MR. KUYPER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Please come forward, sir.
State your name for the reporter and tell us what's on your
mind.
MR. KUYPER: My name is Jim Kuyper and I live
off of Beech Road. And I don't play baseball and I'm not an
Aggie, so I don't have a snowball's chance in Del Rio being
heard, probably, but I do oppose the name change on Beech
Road. And I was just goinq to address -- I got a copy of
c-9-G3
58
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
the petition and I just wanted to address the whereas's, and
evidently there was some confusion regarding the correct
name. And it might be the ~~pelling of the name, but if you
say you live on Beech Road out near Mountain Home, I don't
think there's any confusion at all where that's at for most
people that live around here. And it's been asked to
change, and I'm sure that ttze confusion would come when we
say we now live on Byas Springs Road, which used to be Beech
Road out by Mountain Home. So, as far as that -- I just
don't think it's a -- there's that much confusion. There
was -- I know that there's ,mother street named Beech
Street, which is 20 miles from Beech Road, in the city of
Kerrville, not out or near Mountain Home. I didn't see
much -- I don't see much confusion, or that there should be
much confusion between a city street and a street that's out
there. There are many duplications.
The other -- the next one is, it states on
here that there's road that parallels Byas Branch, and to
lump a couple together here, a major tract along the road is
named Byas Springs. And I wanted to make note that -- and I
believe the County records show that in September of 1963,
Walter Beach gave the County an easement to put that road
there for one dollar and other considerations. And we can
only presume what the other considerations were, but I guess
I would have to ask if there was a -- a Byas or a Mr. Byas,
E-y-o3
59
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.~.,
25
if he was prepared to -- to give access to that springs for
a dollar and other considerations, since it's so historic.
I think -- I think that pretty much clear -- I mean, that's
my opinion. I think it should be left as-is. And the --
one other point is that the petition didn't reach everybody,
and there are probably at least 10 other residents, and
maybe up to 20, that didn't either hear from them or knew
anything about it that may well be opposed. There was more
opposition than just a couple of people. So, thank you for
listening.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Kuyper, may I ask
you a question?
MR. KUYPER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's -- if it's
left to be Beech Road, how do you spell Beech? How do
you --
MR. KUYPER: Walter Beach's name was spelled
B-e-a-c-h, and on the surveys it is spelled B-e-a-c-h. I'm
not sure where the B-e-e-c-h came from. But, once again, if
-- if you're calling in and telling somebody that, you know,
you have a fire or whatever on Beech Road, if you fail to
mention Mountain Home, that -- I'm -- that would certainly
get them in the area, if you mention that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wasn't the original --
JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else have any
.-9-G3
60
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
questions for Mr. Kuyper? i'hank you, sir. We appreciate
your input.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wasn't the original
name Byas Springs? Wasn't ghat the -- no?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I hadn't heard
that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I may have
dreamed that last night or something.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the reason for
the change -- proposed change?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, there's two
reasons. One -- Mr. Amerine may want to speak to this also.
One, the road name is currently misspelled. That's a minor
thing; we can fix that. Bum there's also the conflict with
Beech Road/Beech Street in Kerrville, and it's the -- worst
case scenario is that somebody calls in, about to die, calls
911 on a cell phone and says, "I'm dying out here on Beech
Road," and pass out or whatever; can't get any more
information from them. So, you can't have two Beech Roads
in this -- in this 911 system, so you have to change the
name of this one to either ~~orrect the spelling, and either
the -- Kerrville or the County's got to change the name of
one of the two Beech Roads. Now, I haven't applied the
formula for -- when there's a conflict. I have not applied
the formula to it; which one is the oldest, which one's got
6-9-u3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
-- 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
~,. 2 4
25
61
the most people on it and that sort of thing. But, for
sure, we can't let two Beech Road names stand. I have
received a petition on this to change it to Byas Springs,
and I think there was some 45 or so signatures on that. I
also know that there's some --
MR. KUYPER: Could I make a comment? There
are 45 signatures, but they amount to a little over 20
actual gates, homesteads, residents.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ownerships.
MR. KUYPER: Right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've also met with
one of the residents out there who opposes the name change,
and even though he's -- aftE~r a meeting with me and meeting
with some of the other neigrbors, he still wishes that it
wouldn't change, he's willing to concede that there are
reasons to change it to Byas Springs Road. So, the bottom
line is, we have to make changes in one of these two Beech
Road names. There's a lot of sympathy and support for
changing Byas -- Beech out in Mountain Home to Byas Springs,
and that's what I'm going to support, the change to Byas
Springs Road.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, they're --
both of these are in the same geo region?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're not the same geo
E-9 U3
62
1 region?
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,- 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.-.
25
MR. KUYPER: Twenty miles apart.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: A geo region expands far
beyond 20 miles.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wheeler -- I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I was going to say,
they're not in the same geo region.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wheeler, you had filled
out a participation form for 1.5, which is one and the same
as 1.4. This is --
MR. WHEELER: That will work.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- really your first
opportunity to have your say-so on this. Would you give
your name to the reporter?
MR. WHEELER: My name is Jerry Wheeler, and
I'm a resident on Beech Road. I'm also the Assistant Fire
Chief of the Volunteer Fire Department, Mountain Home. And
I want to thank the Court fo=~ considering the name change.
As a firefighter, I think that it's important that we have
every opportunity to get the proper people to the proper
places, and the confusion between Beech Road/Beech Street
has potential for disaster. I realize there is many streets
in this county that have similar names, but I don't want my
life or the lives of my neighbors being threatened by a
r.-~-o
63
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
i4
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.-
25
potential problem, and I again thank you for your
consideration. And, personally, I don't care if we call it
Byas Springs Ranch Road, Byas Road, just as long as it's
different than Beech and there's no duplicity.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have any questions for
Mr. Wheeler? Thank you, sir. Betty Syfan. You wish to be
heard, ma'am? Please come forward, give your name to the
reporter, and feel free to give us your remarks.
MS. SYFAN: E3etty Syfan, Mountain Home. I'm
not sure what road I do live on. And adding to what the
others have said, also adding to them, we have had people
looking for individuals on whatever road that- is, and they
say they're at one place, anal they say, "You're not along
here," and it turns out they're on the wrong one. Should
there be a name change, it seems logical that it would go
back to the original, the historic name. Yes, there was a
Mr. Beach. There definitely was a Mr. Byas, and he is the
one who established that road. It was Byas Springs Ranch
Road. What is proposed at this time is just Byas Springs
Road. I could go on; a lot of it would be duplicating what
the others have said. But we do have a number of people --
I didn't realize there were so many who lived along that
road. And talking with those who Mr. Kuyper had said
apparently had not been contG.cted, just talking with them
incidentally, they said, "No, we didn't know about a
F-9-G3
64
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
petition, but yes, we definitely are for it." And what's
interesting, too, is that several of the people who are
historic as well as Mr. Byas in this area are definitely for
it, for returning it to Byas Springs Road. Thank you very
much.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mrs. Sytan?
Thank you very much, ma'am. We appreciate your input.
Mr. Amerine?
MR. AMERINE: I just want to add the 911
perspective this road-naming issue. Some of the arguments
for not changing duplicate road names is that disasters
haven't occurred to this point. That just doesn't carry any
weight. That's like driving with your lights off and your
eyes closed and hoping you don't hit anything. Duplicate
road names are a disaster waiting to happen. And I have to
reemphasize that changing this road name will surely, as the
gentleman from the fire department mentioned, alleviate any
concern about where a location might be. The geo region
issue really isn't germane at all, because if it's a land
line call, you will get the Mountain Home versus the other
location, and that will be f=ine. But I want to tell you,
out of the 15,000 phone calls we get at 911 each year,
40 per_r_.ent are now coming from cell phones. We get no
location information whatsoever. If it's someone who's not
familiar with Kerr County, then they're just going to say,
-9-03
65
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
"I think it's Beech Road," and that's going to be completely
confusing to anybody who tries to respond to that. So, just
to reemphasize, there is a public safety issue. I'd like to
see this road name changed. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Amerine
from any members of the Court? Thank you, sir.
MR. AMERINE: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any other member of
the public that wishes to be heard on this issue? This is
your last chance. Come forward now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this public
hearing covers all of these roads?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And all of the
regulatory signs as well?
JUDGE TINLEY: It does indeed.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: The public hearing is for all
of the road name changes and all of the regulatory signs as
listed on the notice. Yes?
MR. KUYPER: Could I ask that Beech Road
would be held out, and give lis an opportunity to see really
whc the -- get the -- the name of the people that live on
Beech Road, all of those, anti see where the residents really
stand instead of just a single, one-time canvassing?
23
24
.~--
25
1 "7
18
19
20
21
22
6-5-G3
66
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if you're speaking with
respect to any formal action taken by the Court, that will
be done not in the public hearing, but rather in the regular
portion of the meeting. What we're trying to do now is to
make sure that everyone who wishes to be heard in a public
hearing format on any of those road name changes as listed,
or the regulatory signs as listed, has an opportunity to be
heard at this time. Yes, s_ir? Mr. Moore?
MR. MOORS: Mr. Baldwin, is this part --
these regulatory signs, is this part of what I discussed
with you, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, it is.
MR. MOORS: May I speak?
JUDGE TINLEY: Please come forward,
Mr. Moore, and identify yourself for the reporter and give
us your comments.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is the reason I
was doing this. It's your turn.
MR. MOORS: That's why I went, "What?" I'm
Edward Moore. I live in Upper Turtle Creek. I -- I do have
something to say about Beech Road. We're talking about
changing one. What's wrong with changing the other one?
You're talking about changing one Beech Road. Can you
change Beech Street? What's the impact on people? What's
the least or most impact on people? I don't know.
E-y-~i3
67
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
.-, 1 3
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.-,
25
COMMISSIONEF: WILLIAMS: That's in the city.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We have guidelines
that we follow to decide where the redundancy -- decide
which one will have to give in. In case of the two Beech
Roads, it's not real clear which one would -- would be the
one selected to maintain its name. So --
MR. MOORS: Maybe it could be considered? I
don't know.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've had months to
consider. We've heard from a lot of people, and I think we
probably have all the information we need now to make a
decision.
MR. MOORS: Very good, thank you. I'd looked
at the paper before I went on vacation to California, and I
saw something about regulatory signs on Upper Turtle Creek.
That affected a swimming hole at Upper Turtle Creek where it
crosses Turtle Creek Road where there's a one-lane bridge.
And I always call Buster when I have a question and ask him,
what's the deal here? I was kind of surprised, 'cause I've
only lived out where I live now two years, but I lived
farther out three and a half years. I've watched a lot of
people enjoy that area, really -- they really enjoy it. And
so we discussed it, and stop signs has been placed there.
And I wasn't aware of that yet, 'cause I saw there was going
to be discussion about doing this. And Mr. Baldwin and I
-y-03
68
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
15
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
discussed -- my question was, are they going to put no
parking signs on both sides? And I believe your reply was
yes. And then I said, well, that -- that ruins it. That
ruins it, 'cause people really enjoy that.
He stressed his concern, and I believe it --
it's safety. And he's right, we need safety. If we're
going to do things, we need safety. So, in the
conversation, he tells me, well, these signs are there. I'm
going, like, we were going to have discussion, but the
work's been done? I don't know how this works. I'm a
little confused by this, 'cause it would be -- it would be
terrible if we decided that they don't belong there and we
have to go pay to pull them out again. So it's -- maybe
I'm -- maybe I'm putting the horse before the cart, or maybe
it got there, but my -- my whole thing changed whenever I
went over -- I told Buster, I'm going to go look at this,
'cause I'm concerned. I wan, safety, but those people --
we've had people swimming there for years. In fact, my
grandkids swim there.
So, I go over, I look, and actually, Buster,
there's parking on one side only. Because there's -- here's
another thing that came in after I discussed it with you,
was, well, if they don't park there, where are they going to
park? They're going to go swimming. Now, do they take that
hazard and put it somewhere else, if you follow the drift of
6-a-~.~3
69
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
15
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.-..
25
how this works? 'Cause we -- it wouldn't be fair to close
it down, put no swimming. You know, we've got no fishing
from the bridge; I agree. So my question was -- and I
looked at it, was where would they would go? Well, when I
looked at it, there's still parking on the creekside, so
there's places to put the vehicles. Now, here again, my
main cnncern now is, do we really put things up and then
talk about it later? Because let's say in our conversation,
like we're here now today, and we come up with a very good
reason not to do a thing, wr.~ich does happen. We'd have to
remove that. So, that's my comment on that part.
As relates -- relates to where I live out
there in Kerr County -- which, you know, I'm glad people can
still swim there, Buster. By the way, we don't hardly use
it. We discuss it. If we disagree, we agree to disagree.
I don't care, you know. If I told you before, I'll tell all
of you; all I ask for is reason to hear me; you don't have
to agree with me. Don't lose your temper. Don't get angry,
'cause I sure won't. You know, 'cause we -- we're here to
see things are done in what we think's the proper way. And
that was my comment about the signs. And, yes, they can
swim there. And --
COMMISSIONER F~ALDWIN: Road and Bridge -- did
you understand his question, Leonard? We -- we went out and
put the signs up before we had this public hearing and
6-G-03
70
1
--- 2
3
4
5
E
7
8
9
10
11
12
,.-_ 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
L
`' 5
approved it. I mean, you want to take a stab at answering
it? Or you want to get Letz to answer it?
MR. ODOM: If the gentleman says it's done,
then I guess it is. I -- unless the work order came down by
some way and put in -- once we get a work order, we go out
and put it in, so I don't know.
MR. MOORS: Any idea who stimulates a work
order?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, and it's not
that big a deal. But try to answer Mr. Moore's question.
MS. HARDIN: There is a court order in place
that leaves it to the department's discretion as to whether
it's needed or not. Then, to be followed up -- for it to --
for it to be legal, there needs to be a court order on such.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. That's your
answer.
MR. MOORS: To be legal.
MR. ODOM: But= to put it up for health,
safety, and welfare, we have that right to make a
determination if there's -- t.here's health, safety, and
welfare. If there's complaints of such, of people blocking
that, we will do that, sir, and then we will put this on the
agenda to address it, so when they give a ticket, that
ticket sticks. That's what this is for.
MR. MOORS: Okay. I appreciate that answer,
G - ~~ J
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
71
'cause, personally, it caused some confusion. Like I say,
I've got a -- a horse and cart here, and it doesn't seem the
right flow, but if that's the way we do it, that's the way
we do it, and I can understand it. By the way, I like what
they did, because it does -- it does make it safer out
there, Buster, you know, really.
COMMISSIONER :3ALDWIN: That's -- there`s your
Sheriff right there if you want to pounce on him.
MR. MOORS: Well, Rusty -- I got no reason to
let him even know who I am. (Laughter.) Much less cause a
problem.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. I'll get
with you later, Rusty, and tell you about this guy.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't think I want to
know.
JUDGE TINLEY: Where you can find him.
MR. MOORS: gentlemen, I want to thank you
for a moment.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Ed. Thank
you very much.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quick question of
the Commissioner. Are we talking about changing it to Byas
Springs or Byas Springs Ranch Road?
COMMISSIONEP~ NICHOLSON: Byas Springs Road.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Not put the
r-G-o3
72
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2l
22
23
24
25
"Ranch" in.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member of
the public that wishes to be heard on this issue? Hearing
no response, I wi_11 close the public hearing and I will
reconvene the Commissioners Court meeting that we recessed
from.
(The public hearing was concluded at 10:29
a.m., and tr.e regular Commissioners Court
meeting was reopened.)
JUDGE TINLEY: And now, being reconvened, I
will call Item 1.5, consider road name changes for the
County-maintained roads in various locations in Kerr County
in accordance with 911 guidelines, and regulatory signs as
discussed in the public hearing.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we
approve the road name changes for County-maintained roads in
various locations in Kerr County in accordance with 911
guidelines, and regulatory signs as discussed in this public
hearing and as enumerated on the attachment provided by Road
and Bridge. I want to -- 7.'ll make that motion, but I'll
have some comments, if I can.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. About Byas
Springs Road versus Beech Road, to Mr. Kuyper and to others
who live on Beech Road and have some concerns or object to
~~-G-o~
~3
1
2
3
4
5
6

8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
the name change, I want you i~o know that I understand your
concerns, and I think they're legitimate and I think you're
sincere about it. What this comes down to is the fact that
we've get two Beech Roads, and they have to be --
MR. KUYPER: One is Beech Street or Drive.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, we`ve got a
Beech Road and a Beech Street.
MR. KUYPER: One is in Kerrville and one is
in west Kerr County.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Both of them are in
our 911 system, and we're going to make a name change.
We're going to change the name of one of those roads or
streets. What I have in -- on the current Beech or Beach
Road is a majority of the people who live there support
changing the name to Byas Springs Road. Other sincere
citizens who live there object to it, and I'm coming down on
the side of we have to make a change, and I'm going to go
with what the majority of the people on what now will be
Byas Springs Road choose to do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think just -- for
the record, Commissioner, L don't think the Court has the
authority to do anything within the city.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So our options are
kind of limited.
~,-y-~~
74
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Our alternative would be to
wait on the City to change theirs.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: To ask them to
change theirs.
JUDGE TINLEY: Snowball's chance in Del Rio,
I believe, is the chance that we would have for that.
MR. KUYPER: One other -- the road that I
actually live on that comes off of Beech Road is called
[r7aters Drive, which is -- there's also a Waters Street in
Kerrville, and so does that mean that -- are we changing all
of those duplications? Or --
JUDGE TINLEY: Is your -- is yours a
county-maintained road, or is yours a private --
MR. KUYPER: Waters is a private.
JUDGE TINLEY`: You may want to consider
changing that road -- name of that road in accordance with
the 91i guidelines. Mr. Amerine can talk with you about
that, so that should you have a misfortune occur on your
road, you won't have the same potential result that we're
concerned about on Beech Road/Beech Street confusion. It`s
a good point. I appreciate you mentioning that, and I'm
sure Mr. Amerine and his people will be glad to talk to you
about it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I'll make is
E-9-03
75
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
that, ycu know, none of these changes or signs really are in
my precinct; they don't affect me, but I think I'm going to
have some come before the Court very soon, and one's going
to be probably more controversial than this one, being
Cypress Creek Road, Cypress Creek Loop, and Cypress Creek,
and something else; we're not sure what it is. But, you
know I just ask the public -~- the County's trying to do or
is doing what is in the best interests of the public safety
of the county. It's not easy. It's going to be -- a lot of
people are going to be unhappy with the choices that this
Court has to make. And I Mink, you know, from the little I
know of the situation, Commissioner Nicholson did what I
would do, go out and get a lot of feedback. And you have to
make a call, and I'll support his recommendation, 'cause I
think he followed the process that, you know, is the best
that can be done in the situation, 'cause we can't keep
everybody happy, and we do need to make a change.
MR. KUYPER: I hate to be like a bad penny.
Couldn't we -- is it possible that we could look into the --
maybe calling it West Beech Road or something? Which -- it
allows it to maintain that -- the integrity of that road
that many are familiar witi~, but changing it from -- I see
the lady shaking her head.
MS. HARDIN: Doesn't follow the guidelines.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Starting with "West."
E~-G-~~
76
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
..~
25
direction.
MS. HARDIN: West -- no road starts with a
MR. KUYPER: I got you, okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd be curious to know
why you're so adamant about this. What --
MR. KUYPER: I don't think I'm any more
adamant than them. It's just that I think Beech Road -- I
think there will be more confusion after that change,
because, mark these words, if you want somebody to get there
quick, you are going to mention the fact that it used to be
called Beech Road. If you said, "I live on Byas Springs
Road," well, that -- there's maps, there's addresses,
there's things that are there. So I think by changing it
totally from BeecYi to Byas, it just offers more confusion.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you have -- you
have the Kerr County Sheriff sitting here, emergency service
fellow. You have almost the full 911 Board sitting back
there that haven't stood u~~ to -- to agree with that,
thcugh. I mean, is there something -- is there something --
some reason that --
MR. KUYPER: None whatsoever, other than
that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right.
MR. KUYPER: I just think that it -- we can
maintain that as -- I think all of us know it as Beech Road.
r,-9-03
77
1
^ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. KUYPER: I think there's very few people
that think of that road as Byas Springs.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I agree with
you.
MR. KUYPER: And I also think that if
somebody turns over an easement to the county for one dollar
and other considerations, then you just -- a couple of years
later, then we go and change that name, and -- you know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think it
was -- even before that, it was Byas Road. See, even before
the --
MR. KUYPER: I think --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Beech.
MR. KUYPER: -- if you asked the Kerr County
residents if they know where Beech Road is or Byas Ranch
Road, more of them are going to know where Beech Road is.
And that's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had a -- when we
were doing the 911 changes, I had a lady and a husband
lawyer team, retired from F~ouston, and they attacked me one
evening, and I had to ask them the question, you know, why
is this thing bothering you so much? And their answer was,
"Because our friends from r3ouston cannot find my house."
Well, let me tell you, I really don't care if their friends
6-~+-03
78
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
i0
11
12
---~ 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
can find their house. I don't care if they get any mail
ever, but what I do care about is if they have a heart
attack, an ambulance and this man right here can find them.
That's all I care about. Sc, you know, these arguments over
the silly things are just -- you know, it's gotten
ridiculous to me. I'm sorry, I may be offending you and I
apologize for that, but it's just -- when we're talking --
we're talking about people': lives here, and it's extremely
serious stuff to us.
MR. AMERINE: I'd like to address one of the
concerns t~iis gentleman has about maps, and especially First
Responder maps that we provide to the Sheriff's Department,
Kerrville Fire Department, police department, and our
volunteer fire departments. All the information that we
gather through road changes or address changes go into these
public maps. 6Ve provide them also to the Chamber of
Commerce for Kerrville, as well as some private mapping
organizations, so that they can update maps, like the James
Kraft map that's available., So, obviously, right now, if
this becomes effective -- and I think a point of
clarification might be necessary. These signs don't go up
until the address changes become effective at the end of the
year, but prior to that time, all this public information
will be made available to all these photographers, and these
maps will be updated and it will not be, other than a minor
E-_ -~~,~
79
1
--~ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
~-.
25
ir.conver.ience, difficult for people to find these locations.
That's the whole point. I mean, I think we're missing the
point. If we were making it more difficult to find these
for our public safety officials, we wouldn't be doing it.
So, I just thought that clarification might help the Court.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much, sir. We
have a motion and second. Is there any further question or
discussion by the Court? If- not, all in favor, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion ~~arried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry.
MS. HARDIN: I do --
JUDGE TINLEY: We are now down to our normal
break time -- I'm sorry.
MS. HARDIN: I would like to make one comment
on the two that are in Bill's area that have a number on
them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah?
MS. HARDIN: The two portions of old Highway
16, that -- those two roads have never had a proper name. I
would like to know if it was okay for us to go ahead and
install those signs on tho:~e two reads.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have no problem.
-~-n3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
80
MS. HARDIN: Do you have a problem with that?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have no problem, as
long as we get notice.
MS. HARDIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, now he makes a
comment.
SHERIFF HIER~iOLZER: She asked a question. I
thought it was interesting t=o just sit and watch, Buster.
(Laughter.) I do strongly agree that all duplications need
to be ended. It does cause a serious problem for us.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now we see.
JUDGE TINLEY: We're a bit past our normal
break time. We'll stand in recess until 10 minutes before
11:00.
(Recess taken from 10:39 a.m. to 10:50 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll reconvene the
Commissioners Court meetinc scheduled for this date, after
having been in recess for 10 to 15 minutes. It's a little
hit after 10 minutes before 11:00.
COMMISSIONEF; LETZ: Wait, did Irene leave for
the day?
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before the press left, I
6-9-03
1
--, 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
,9
20
21
22
23
24
..-.
25
81
just wanted to make sure what I mean to do in my precinct
with the burn ban is next, which is continue the current
suspension until --
JUDGE TINLEY: I'll recognize you at the
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Thank you, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not at this time, okay? Okay.
Next item, 1.9, consider anti discuss and take appropriate
action to establish a minimum salary for Kerr County
employees. Commissioner Nicholscn.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I put this on the
agenda for the sole purpose of beginning a dialogue about
what appropriate compensation should be for the lower paid
employees. I don't -- I don't expect that we'll resolve or
come to a conclusion or con;>ensus on this issue today, but
as we're gearing up the budget period, I'd like to talk
about it some more. The issue -- part of the issue is,
should we pay our lowest pa=_d employees a decent wage? A --
a living wage? I don't know what the correct term for it
is. It's something above tree federal-mandated minimum
wages. And I gave you all :>ome information here that -- I'm
sure you're aware of it already, but it gets it in a concise
form. We have employees who are eligible for public
assistance. And some examp.Les of facts about public
assistance is that, conside_~ing a family of three and
-u-U3
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,,_.. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
82
they're earning $19,536 a year or less, they're eligible for
food stamps. That same family, if they're earning $20,304 a
year or less, they're eligible for Medicaid. A family of
three earning $30,520 a yea r_ or less is eligible for
C.H.I.P., which is the Child Health Insurance Program that
provides very low-cost medical insurance for -- for poor
people.
I got -- I got my facts a little bit wrong
here on the -- on the information I gave you about the Kerr
County employees. I did -- I was not aware that -- that the
employee count of 305 or so includes Juvenile Detention
Facility employees, so I've had to go back in and take those
employees out. I don't know very much about that, but
anyhow, approximately 50 of our 264 County employees, or
about 20 percent, are paid less than the salary level for
eligibility for food stamps and/or Medicaid. I don't feel
good about that at all. Tr.e second point I made there was
-- has to do with the number of employees that opt not to
purchase county health insurance, and it's approximately --
approximately 251 of the 304 now. I`m back to the number
that includes the Juvenile Facility employees.
Approximately 251 of 304 employees opt not to have dependent
care. Now, that could be because they have no dependents,
or it could be because they have a spouse that has a good
insurance policy and they opt not to pay the premium for the
~-y-.,~
,y
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,,--. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
..,.
25
83
county policy, but assuredly, there's many employees who
have dependents who are not covered otherwise, and they opt
not to buy the dependent care insurance.
I think we're really dealing with two issues
here. We're dealing with tree compensation level of our
lowest paid employees, and we're dealing with the -- with
our medical insurance premiums and our medical insurance
coverage. I don't have a rf=_al good, warm feeling about our
medical insurance, either. I don't -- I don`t have any
facts to back up that -- that suspicion that it's too costly
or not adequate, but I think it's something we need to be
paying some attention to. I'm just suggesting that I think
it's not good public policy for a government entity to pay
people such a low salary that they would qualify for public
assistance. I wonder -- you know, one of the issues here in
Kerr County is our hourglass society. We've got a
substantial number of peopi.e that have a lot of resources, a
lot of wealth, and then we have hardly any middle class, and
we have a substantial number of people who are poor. And
the answer to that is better jobs and higher wages, and
perhaps government should be a leader in that effort and
pay -- pay better minimum salaries.
I also believe -- I've got some data, but. not
complete data. I believe that we're probably the lowest
paying government entity in Kerr County. We pay a whole lot
-9-03
1
2
3
4
J
6
i
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
84
less than U.G.R.A. We pay less than City of Kerrville and
other government agencies. Maybe some of them pay as little
as we do, but it's a concern I've got. I think it's got
something to do with -- with basic fundamental principles
about how government ought i~o act. That's the end of my
sermon.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make a brief
comment on that, that basically -- I mean, I totally support
what you're saying. And I think the Court, since I've been
on it, has gone through two, you know, pretty significant
revisions upward of salaries to try to catch up. And the
problem we encounter every time we go up, so does everybody
else go up; I don't know that we're really gaining
percentage-wise on the other entities, though do I know
that -- I think our employees are better off now than they
were several years ago because of some upgrades. It's a
real tough problem, and it's a budget -- it comes into the
budget issue. And I think we're going through this budget
year as having one of our real -- I mean, our first real, I
guess, look at what our last increase package does to the
budget because of some of t=he longPVity and other increases
that we built into -- autornatic increases in an effort to
try to increase them. So, you know, to me, this continues
to be a -- something we need to look at and try to improve
within our -- within the budget parameters that we're given,
.-y-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
85
or that we operate -- choose to operate under.
Second thing is that I totally agree about
the other political entities, that I would like to pay as
much as they do. But even rnore so than that, what really
gets me and has for a while, and we don't have a lot of
direct control over, is people that we -- they kind of have
a -- a working relationship with the County where we help
fund some of their operations; they pay more than we do.
And there are several entities where that takes place in
Kerr County, and U.G.R.A. you mentioned. Another one is
911.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Appraisal District.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appraisal District is
another one. And, you know, we've always had, I guess,
difficulty reconciling that, but it certainly is a concern.
And I guess my -- my final comment is -- I don't mean this
to be at all a negative, but the numbers are -- I find are
interesting from -- that you -- you know, the food stamp and
Medicaid and all that. What that really shows me more than
anything else is how the federal government -- which those
are all federal numbers -- have pushed those levels up
substantially. Now, depending on, you know, circumstances,
of course, but $19,536 as ~~overty level, you know, I think
-- I think a lot -- I have a problem with that. I don`t
think people are destitute at that number. Is that enough
'c-9-03
1
2
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
.-- 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
.... 2 4
25
86
money? No. Could I live on that amount? No. But to say
that that's absolutely poverty, I think, shows signs of what
has happened in Washington, of -- I don't want a political
battle, but one of the political parties has pushed this up
so they can broaden what thE:y call people that are in
poverty, and I think it has not a whole lot to do with
reality. But, that aside, .I think we still should do what
we can to get County employees on par with other
governmental entities in our county and in the area.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to commend
Commissioner Nicholson for doing this research and putting
it on the table. It's a point that we have to grapple with.
I mentioned to him this morning before court that I think it
was in 1995, when my wife arld I still owned and operated the
Mountain Sun, that we did a feature story about this very
topic, and the reason was because it had been called to our
attention, as this Court has had it called many times since,
the turnover in the Sheriff's Department. And I know Rusty
constantly reminds us about the disparity between the deputy
in the City of Kerrville Police Department. I know the
Court's dealt with it a couple times and made an effort, but
it hasn't succeeded in overcoming it. T'm not sure how we
do it, but I think we shou__d try.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a good comment.
I know ycu find that hard to believe, but I do. I also
E-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.-~
25
87
commend Number 4 for bringing it to the table. We've talked
about it numerous times through the years, and I agree with
it 100 percent. I think that our employees need to be taken
care of, first and foremost.. This thing of us coming along
every year and -- and giving everybody a two-bumps raise and
-- and all those things, that's wonderful, but that doesn't
do anything, in my opinion. My opinion is -- is that we
need to somehow come in at -the beginning, you know, starting
-- what is it, 12-1? Is that what everybody comes in, is a
12-1? That 12-1 needs to go to a 14-1. That's where --
that's the only way you're doing to do anything good for the
employees, is that they come in at the beginning, and then I
would assume that everythinq else bumps up as you go along.
And I don't know how that affects future budgets, and -- I'm
sure it's tremendous. But in order to really help
employees, you start them out bigger, I think. And, once
again, be happy to -- be happy to sit down with y'all and
take a look at it, see how we can do it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Couple of
cbservations from my human resource management experience.
One of them is that turnover is very expensive. There's a
shutdown and start-up, loss of momentum costs and retraining
costs, a lot of hidden costs there that -- that's more
expensive than you realize, that I -- and than I realize.
And then the second point is -- well, just that one. That's
E--03
_ _ ~ ~
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
` 12
--, 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
88
all for now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Turnover.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's interesting to
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Excuse me, Judge. I
would like to make one othe_~ point. And this is not
directed at any of our departments or -- that report to
Commissioners Court, or the elected officials, but I would
much -- if I'm manager of a group of people, I would much
rather find ways to live within my salary budget by
having -- by using technology and training and other ways to
cut the total number of people, and pay the -- I'm not
talking about laying anybody off. I'm just saying reduce
the number of people that I need to run that department, and
doing that through attrition and paying those remaining
employees more. I could keep the same -- I found that to be
true very often, that by closely examining the way you do
work, you can get it down t:o fewer people, and then the --
everybody gets a little bigger slice of the pie. That's
all.
JUDGE TINLE'~': One observation that I would
maze about the so-called poverty levels or Medicaid levels.
While our federal government talks about establishing
these -- these guideposts and then measuring state and local
government employees by it, especially in this time of -- of
F-~-~~
89
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
uncertainty on the international scene, you would be
surprised at the number of the members of our armed forces
who are eligible and, in fact, rely upon public assistance.
And I'm talking about the Snuffy, the grunt down there in
the trenches. That's the guy, or the gal, as the case may
be, that's having to rely u~>on public assistance. Now,
granted, your active duty military personnel have some
benefits, but even taking those into account, there are a
number of them, a significa~~t number of them, that are
eligible and rely upon public assistance. And I'm -- I'm a
little disturbed when the f~=ds point the finger at us when
they haven't got their own 'souse in order.
Now, that doesn't solve our problem here; I
understand that. But from a budgetary impact standpoint, on
the immediate horizon, obviously, if there's going to be a
significant increase in the pay levels, that leaves only one
or two solutions. The money's going to have to come from
somewhere else, be that from other areas of the budget or
from additional revenue sources, or you work within the
available personnel compen:~ation levels and spread that
among fewer numbers. I mean, that's the mathematics of it,
and there's -- I don't think there's any other way you can
look at it. And I'm the guy that's got to do that budget,
so if -- if you folks have any real bright ideas about
either of those directions, why, I'd sure be willing to
-y-o~
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2i
22
23
24
,--,
25
90
listen.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You do it; we vote on it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I think we've
done what I set about to do. We got the issue on the table,
and I hear a consensus that says, yeah, we need to think
about this some more, and that's what I set about to do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I agree with
you, Commissioner, and thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have
anything further to offer on this item? If not, we'll move
on to the next item, consider and discuss approval to ask
for RFP's for regular recurring services, such as heating
and air-conditioning, electrical, plumbing. I put this on
the agenda because, like a lot of the outside goods and
services that we utilize, I think we have an obligation to
the taxpayers of this county to request maximum
participation in the offering of those goods and services to
this county cn a competitive basis, and that's why it's
there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mentioned to you
earlier today this was on the agenda, this exact item,
earlier this year, and I'm referring to the Maintenance
Director to find out where we are on going out for RFQ's.
MR. HOLEKAMF?: County Attorney just walked
out. I gave him the forms that we had previously to -- to
E-G-o}
91
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
i2
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
cut them down a little bit s]ZOrter version, and I don't know
where we're at, quite frankly.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think a lot of the
difficulty is putting together the RFP itself, and I -- I
understand that can be a considerable effort, especially the
first time around. l think it's worth the extra effort to
do it right the first time ~o that you don't get beat and
bit up, and then the next time you got to reinvent the wheel
anyway. So, I would -- I would suggest that if the action
is authorized to go out for Request for Proposals, I would
work with the County Attorney and the various -- for
example, on the -- the recurring services on this item, with
the Maintenance Supervisor, and then with the other folks
who are directly affected by the other items.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to get
them done, and it's -- I mean, we've -- we either certainly
have a discussion, and probably have a court order earlier
this year to do it. So --
COMMISSIONER. BALDWIN: Do you think the
previous court order had these -- listed these three?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, it did.
JUDGE TINLE`~: As I told Commissioner Letz
earlier, I, frankly -- apparently I've got a faulty memory,
which at my age I think is probably excusable. But --
c-a-n3
92
1
-^ 2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No comment.
JUDGE TINLEY: But -- I fully expect a
comment. But I, frankly, don't remember specifically RFP's
on these recurring items, but if it's there, why, it's there
and we don't need action on this item.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think action again is
gccd.
MR. HOLEKAMP: I think -- excuse me. I'm
sorry, Kathy. I believe what it was, it was referred to the
County Attorney on that action by Commissioners Court for
them to shorten the -- the specifications for the RFP's.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, I think we can
still -- I mean, it doesn't hurt to have, in this case, a
second one to make sure the importance of it, you know, to
everybody. But I will mention, if the Judge is going to be
-- going to get involved with this, which I think is great,
the problem we had last tim-e, we had the County Attorney
prepare the last RFQ -- or RFP, I guess is what it is. I
guess -- we hope they qualify if they're submitting
proposals. That we tried t=o cover all the bases, and the
document got so confused we ran off all the bidders. So,
it's really -- it has got to be almost a one- to two-page
document. If you can do it and start thinking of all the
scenarios as to what happens to a Sunday call, what happens
to an after-hours -- you know, all the different things, and
~- g-ri ~
93
1
2
3
4
J
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
~.,, 13
14
15
16
i7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
if it's a plumber or if it's a plumber's helper, Y'ou know,
there's so many different things they're bidding on. Then
you get the materials. It became difficult to make it
simple. But that definitely was the problem last time, is
that it was too r_omplicated; we didn't get enough response.
So, that was kind of the charge I think the Court gave the
County Attorney and Mainten~ince, on these three anyway, to
try to simplify the process, but yet make it worthwhile.
And I think the other thing, there -- of course, there are
some state law requirements to do business with the County,
and I believe that people have to meet certain minimum
requirements as well.
JUDGE TINLEY: They should have to meet those
requirements whether or not they're a successful bidder or
whether they're just contacted off of a list or by some
method other than -- than a bid process. Wouldn't you
agree?
COMMISSIONEF. LETZ: Yes. But I think you
also -- we just need to make sure -- maybe we are, but
workers comp and some of these other things that are
required, I believe by state law, we need to make sure that
that's clearly set forth i:n the bid package.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Those are -- those
are --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know.
E.-y-O i
94
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,._. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2 1
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: -- mandatory requirements.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bonding, things of that
nature. We just need to make sure that the minimum
requirements are real clearly set forth on there. I think
it also needs to be clearly set out that if you`re not on
the list, you know, you're rot going to get the work. I
mean, so we, I mean, try to really encourage people to get
multiple companies to do it, so we can hopefully accept all
of them and go with the company that`s the cheapest. And --
you know, do what Road and Bridge basically does; accept all
the bids so we have a -- yolz know, a group of people that we
can work with on a priority basis.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm still curious
about the previous court order. Do you have a copy of it?
MR. HOLEKAMP: I`ll have to look for it, but
I thought there was. Nadene would probably be able to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm kind of like the
Judge; I remember -- I remember dealing with this and doing
it, but I don't remember specifically what we did. Let's do
it again.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move that we, I guess,
approve the preparation of the Request for Proposals for
heating and air conditioning as one, electrical as one, and
plumbing as another, and to have those RFP's brought back to
the Court for approval.
h-y-0~
95
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they go through the
County Attorney? Is that what you're saying?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: At this point, I just
want them done. I'm authorizing -- I don't care where they
go. Just bring something back so we can start working on
them. And I would say that, because there is a budget
impact, we need to have they>e back by the end of June. I
don't think it's that big of a project.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: For you it's not, right?
Motion made and seconded by Commissioners Letz and Williams,
respectively, that the Court approve seeking Requests for
Proposal packages for heating and air-conditioning,
electrical, and plumbing, and that the -- that the same be
prepared by the end of June: and -- and resubmitted to the
Court after that date for consideration. Any further
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
MR. HOLEKAMP: I just have a quick question
on it. Could I make a comment?
24
.._
25
F-~-~~~~
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure.
MR. HOLEKAMn: Is this by advertisement in
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
96
the newspaper? Or by sending packets to all of those in
the --
JUDGE TINLEY: All we want is the proposal at
this time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just the document.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just want a document that
we can approve.
MR. HOLEKAMP: I thought you said you wanted
this all by --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We want the package for
us to look at.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, you don't want it all by
the end of June?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hopefully our first
meeting in July, we'll approve them and authorize them to be
sent out or advertised in whatever way, probably, is
recommended by you.
MR. HOLEKAMF': Okay.
JUDGE TINLE~': Next item, consider and
discuss approval to ask foz~ RFP's for insurance of various
types; health, physical lo~~s and casualty, liability and law
enforcement liability, and workers comp. Same reasoning
applies to this item as it does to the recurring services or
any other. I think the -- we owe it to the taxpayers to
seek as many proposals on a competitive basis as -- as we
c-9-03
97
1
- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
1C
11
12
.-. 13
14
i5
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
can get. I realize that, on the insurance, it's a little
different than calling a plumber. You know, with the
plumbing, you're concerned about his regular rate, his
overtime/holiday/weekend rate. And insurance, of course,
the law does allow you to do things a little bit
differently, because it's hard to find apples to compare
with apples. On the health policy, for example, two
different companies may be a little different; the
deductible may be a little different, surgical schedule of
benefits may be a little di'=ferent, but you've just got to
do an evaluation of that. 'you can't directly compare one
entire polir_y against the other, because no two are exactly
alike, but it gives you the opportunity to have as many
proposals in front o~ you. I -- I would hope to avoid
something like occurred at the last meeting of 2002, in
which it was necessary that an emergency meeting of the
Court be called because it was discovered that law
enforcement liability coverage expired at midnight on the
31st of December, and no continuing coverage was in place.
And, in my opinion, you were literally held hostage at that
point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, that happened
two years in a row.
JUDGE TINLE`L: I don't think that's fair to
25 ~ the taxpayers.
n-y-r~3
98
1
--. 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
"' 0
L
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree,
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I, for one,
totally agree with that. The only question I have is, this
really doesn't affect going out for RFP's. Do you envision
bringing in an insurance consultant at some point to help
explain these policies? Because this -- one of the problems
I've always had with insurance is I don't understand what
they're -- you know, what they give me on a personal level,
much less when they get into this type of a deal.
Commissioner Nicholson here, he -- I think he has more
experience from a private sector standpoint. Hopefully,
he'll be able to answer some of that. But, you know, if we
can find someone that we trust and they`re reasonable in
price to advise us, I think it would be of benefit.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know -- it's
probably impractical to do this off a population of 300
employees or so, but what -- what's typical in large
corporations is they'll lay out a policy to say, "This is
the coverage we're going to buy. What are you going to
charge for a..," Dictate t:he terms of the policy. We're
probably not going to have the resources and sophistication
to do that. We might try to find somebody in the community
that -- I don't know, maybe that's a retired insurance
executive, and get some he:Lp, advice on it. Let me go on to
say --
h-9-„3
i
--- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1i
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.~
25
99
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we were
relying on Bryan Finley to advise us through this jungle.
MR. TOMLINSON: Can I make a comment?
JUDGE TINLEY: You have a comment?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. TCMLINSON: TYie only thing I would -- I
would like to see the Court do is, you know, when we do go
out for proposals, to wait until sometime after the budget
year. I mean, after the budget process is almost finished.
Because, I mean, I'm the onE> that has to gather all the
information to give to whoever writes the proposal, and my
experience with -- with bidding or insurance is that you --
it's bard to get quotes until you're closer to the end of
your policy year. Our policy year expires December 31st.
And four years ago --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that, do all of
them -- I know over the past six years, anyway, we've tried
to get all of the policies to expire on the same date. Are
they all at --
MR. TOMLINSON: They`re all --
COMMISSIONE~~ LETZ: -- December 31st now?
MR. TOMLINSON: They`re all the same date.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before, they were all
scattered, as I recall.
~_~_~,;
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
li
12
-- 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2 1
22
23
,,,., 2 4
25
100
MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. And the
reason we picked December 31st was that most workers comp
coverages that -- that are or.1 an annual basis for -- from
January 1 through December 31st, and we -- at that time, our
coverage was with TAC, and that's when their policy year
was. So, we were having a ~~roblem getting -- when we --
when we did go out for bids, we were having a problem
getting bids, because a lot -- most companies like to bid on
the whole package, because t:here's some economies of scale
in -- in bidding the whole package. Because, like, some --
some companies specialize irl -- in areas, like in law
enforcement liability or workers comp. So, if you offer
them the coverage or the -- you know, the risk that they are
-- that they specialize in, then they might give -- they
will tend to give you a better price or better premium on --
on that specific coverage if you -- if you offer them the
whole thing, rather than -- rather than bid, you know,
property by itself and workers comp by itself and -- and any
other coverage by itself.
So, I mean, I -- I stood here four years ago
and ~ -- and told the Court. then that I -- I did not feel
qualified to, first of all, write any RFP for insurance, and
I definitely didn't feel like I was qualified to review --
review those -- those proposals and make recommendations to
this Court. And I totally agree with what Commissioner Letz
E-~-03
101
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
said about -- about this issue, and that I know -- I know
enough about -- about insurance and the coverage for the
county to know that I don't know enough. And -- and so
that's why I don't -- I think that -- that it's -- that it's
advisable to have someone that does not benefit from -- from
the bidding process. In other words, someone that does not
have a financial benefit to gain from -- from bidding on our
coverage to be that person too -- to guide us in the right
directions. And that's exa~~tly what we did four years ago.
We -- we had someone that -- that specializes in -- in that
process. And I know -- and the Judge alluded to the fact a
while ago that there -- you know, policies in different
companies are written different, and you always have that
outside chance that you're going to have -- have some gaps
in coverage, especially in liability.
And, I mean., we're talking about three
different types of liability for the county. One is general
liability. Another one is -- is law enforcement, and the
otrier one is public officials. And judging by what I
remember his conversation. was with the Court, our
consultant, was that you have to be so careful in liability
coverage, in that -- in that you make sure that -- that each
policy is written where you don't have those gaps. And
that's why -- I mean, that's exactly the reason that -- that
I don't think that -- I know that I'm not qualified to
-G-os
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
102
make -- to review those and make those recommendations. So,
I'm -- I'm just -- I just think that that's -- that`s the
thing to do.
COMMISSIONER :LETZ: Tommy?
MR. TOMLINSON: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kind of a quick aside
question, and it's something that Commissioner Nicholson
brought up about us, that we have a relatively small pool
when we go out for insurance. Aren't there some sort of
pools that we could join? I know, like, school districts
have -- they consolidated multiple districts to get their
numbers up, to get the rates down, or at least more stable.
And I know there's legislation that I think this Court
envisioned -- anyway, supported -- that didn't get through
the Legislature, to be able to let us piggyback some of the
state insurance. But isn't there something we can do to
help stabilize our rates like that?
MR. TOMLINSON: Are you talking about health
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All insurance. It seems
like our --
MR. TOMLINSON: Now, health insurance --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But health probably the
most. It varies the mast from year to year.
MR. TOMLIN;~ON: My experience is that it's
5-9-03
103
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
almost totally based on your experience.
COMMISSIONER 7~ETZ: Mm-hmm.
MR. TOMLINSON: And our -- our experience is
not the best. And so that -~- so, from past experience, I
mean, the sure way to make a difference in -- in cost is to
change coverage. And, I mean, the Court -- the Court has
not wanted to do that in the past. And I -- you know, I've
seen the same thing happen in Bandera, and I just -- and in
the bidding process that we've gone through in the past, I
just have not seen any significant change in -- in dollars,
unless you -- unless I make a significant change in the
coverage.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it just seems to me
that -- I mean, county government is, I think, pretty much
the same statewide. We have the -- because of the law
enforcement issue and because of the Road and Bridge issue,
there's two pretty dangerous professions there that are also
high stress, you know. Noti~, that's not to mention other
elected officials and emplc>yees too, but those two really
stand out in my mind as, orie, running heavy equipment, which
is dangerous; the other, tYie stress level of being a law
enforcement person and what you're required to do isn't
healthy. So, it seems that if we can join a much larger
pool somewhere that doesn't have those types of -- that high
potential for those categories, it would help us.
c'-9-03
104
1
,,_.. 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.-.
25
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we have -- we did have
an opportunity -- I forget w}Zat it was, but it's been three
or four years ago that we were at this juncture, and -- and
we -- we got the insurance people at TAC to come visit with
us, and it was on an informal basis. And, you know, we
offered them all of our experience information and -- and
what -- you know, there was a thought that we could be in
the TAC pool for health coverage as well as, you know,
property and casualty and liability, and they just flat
refused to take us.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But TAC is that pool
you're talking about.
MR. TOMLINSOIV: And, I mean, our experience
was so bad that -- that Blue Cross/Blue Shield would not
even talk to us about coverage.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty bad when your
association that you're part owners in doesn't want you.
COMMISSIONER. NICHOLSON: Why is our
experience so bad?
COMMISSIONEF: LETZ: Going to be bad last
year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Major, major.
COMMISSIONE3~ LETZ: Major health situation.
COMMISSIONE:~ NICHOLSON: Nothing we're doing
wrong. We just got unlucky.
6-.-U3
105
1
..-. 2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, and that's exactly
right. We just --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we were doing pretty
good, brit then last year was a pretty bad year. We had a
couple of good years and rates kind of went down. The last
year was horrible from the current standpoint.
COMMISSTONER NICHOLSON: Big-ticket
incidents?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mu
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
talking about earlier this morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: The one
about earlier this morning.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
MR. TOMLINSOLI: But I
was --
ltiple big-tickets.
Like the one we were
that we tried to talk
Tried to.
-- the first comment
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll talk about it next time.
MR. TOMLINSCN: -- about the RFP is that I
would like plenty of time, because I know that, you know,
it's a mammoth job. When you get through with all the
information that -- that you have to have for -- for a
bidder to make a reasonable stab at a bid, you have a stack
of paperwork that's -- thai~'s like this. And so, I mean,
this is budget time, and --- and, you know, my office is --
is part of that process. and so it`s -- I mean, it could --
6-9-G3
106
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
it could put a real strain on us to get it together and do
budget at the same time.
COMMISSIONER =VICHOL5ON: So, am I hearing
this is something we could get done before the December 31st
expiration date, but it would be a burden to try to get it
done by September 1st budget date?
MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, finalized by then,
yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once again, I'm only
asking for the preparation of the document so that we can do
this.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think I have a philosophical
difference with the Auditor. I realize that there was a
great deal of effort that has apparently gone into having
the expiration of all of these policies as of December 31st.
I think all the policies should expire as of the end of the
budget year. Because, number one, for budgetary purposes,
you can better calculate if you know what your cost is going
to be for the next year, not what your cost is going to be
for one quarter of the next; year, and then you're subject to
being eaten alive for the next nine months. And, secondly,
you have a problem of -- you're committing funds of this
county beyond the period o.E time that you can lawfully do
so. So, I think -- I think those policies should expire on
E-~-o~
107
1
,-, 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,..., 13
14
15
16
17
18
I9
20
21
22
23
24
25
September the 30th so that you can --
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't object --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- deal with those two
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't object to the date.
I'm just -- I was explaining why it was December 31st.
And at the time when we were going through the process, we
had expiration dates year-round.
COMMISSIONER 3ALDWIN: February, March.
MR. TOMLINSOIQ: And we were -- we were
constantly, you know, doing proposals for insurance. And --
and, I mean, seems like that's what we did every month. And
so there was -- there had t~~ be some point in time that we
chose to -- for that to happen. And I -- so I don't have
any -- December 31st is riot a magic date. It just happened.
JUDGE TINLEY: Did I understand you correctly
that -- that if you don't have a policy period that ends on
December 31, that TAC won't --
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
JUDGE TINLE`C: -- won't consider you in their
workers comp?
MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, I didn't say that.
JUDGE T INLE'T' : Oh .
MR. TOMLINS!JN: It just so happened that that
was the end of their policy year at that time.
E-9-03
108
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
i7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
..-._
25
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: And so we -- we moved
everything to -- to coincide with that, with that date, so
that we could bid everything together, rather than bidding
workers comp by itself and then going to some other date to
bid the rest of it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, couldn't --
I mean, it makes sense, what the Judge is saying, where you
go to September 30th from a budget standpoint, because
that's been a real problem t=he past few years, because the
insurance has varied so mucYl and we just didn't know. But
couldn't we go -- start the process now and have the first
policy for a nine-month period, and then kick them up to a
year? Or -- you know.
MR. TOMLINSON: You can buy short-term -- a
short-term policy, if you like. And it may be higher. I
mean, there -- there may be -- from what I'm remembering,
when we did this, we had to buy -- we had to extend our
policy period for three months, for instance, and that --
and that short-term per month was higher than -- than it
would have been on an annual basis.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the only way we
can get to an --
MR. TOMLINSON: Right. We have --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- earlier expiration
h-9-~3
109
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
,--~
25
date, 'cause you can't go on a year and nine months, because
we can't commit for two years.
MR. TOMLINSON: We'd have to -- we`d have
to -- on December 31st, we would have to buy -- we'd have to
purchase a nine-month policy.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's not your only option.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: Another option would be that
if you get a -- a commitment= for a policy year October 1
through September 30, you could commit that coverage and
short-term cancel.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, yeah, you could. But
then --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cancel three months
and write a new 12.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's right.
MR. TOMLINSON: You could do that, yeah,
that's true. I don't know -- you know, I would be -- I
would want to make sure what we got back. I mean, I'd want
to know that -- that we actually got a third of -- or fourth
of -- of your annual premium.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're committing funds into a
new budget year, whicYi you don't lawfully have the authority
to do. And if -- if you don`t appropriate funds for that
purpose, it doesn't happen.
6-Q-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
,....
25
110
MR. TOMLINSON: I'm thinking about the amount
we've already paid. I mean, we've already prepaid to
December 31st, and so I'm concerned about the money that --
that we've already prepaid and we're not going to use for --
for October through December.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm concerned that money's
been paid for next budget yE°ar in this budget year.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think there's an
out, Judge. I think you care always -- you have the
opportunity to cancel the remaining term.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So we probably are
not illegal, but it doesn't sound like a good budgeting
practice.
JUDGE TINLEY: Right. That's part of my
concern.
COMMISSIONER GJILLIAMS: And the premium --
the premium that may have been prepaid can be reallocated
or -- refunded or reallocated to the first three months of
the new policy year.
MR. TOMLINSON: That's -- well, that's
possible. You know, if you -- if you get the -- we might --
I don't know. I don't know what their policy is on refunds.
I mean, that's something I''d want to know about.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sounds like what I'm
5-9-03
111
1
2
3
hearing in all this is it is:~'t easy to do; it's difficult
to do, but there could be some significant efficiencies in
getting from here to there.
4
5 taxpayers.
6
7 pursue it.
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: I think we owe it to the
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we need to
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Judge
Tinley's right. It keeps u:s from shooting in the dark for
nine months, which we've bey°n doing.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON; So, I'm -- I'll move
that we -- we ask for Request for Proposals for insurance in
these four categories be brought to Commissioners Court
first meeting in July for approval. That's too soon?
COMMISSIONEF: LETZ: Well, I have a question
as to -- but that's a motion, so we can -- we can get to it
through discussion if it's seconded.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded that Request for Proposals for the four listed
categories of insurance be prepared and brought before the
Court on the first meeting in July. Questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is -- really
goes to who's going to prepare the RFP? Because I don't
think there's anyone in the county qualified. We don't have
-~-n3
112
1
^ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
--~ 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
an insurance expert. And, I mean, I'm just kind of
speaking -- Tommy said he isn't qualified. I don't mean to
speak for the County Attorney, who's sitting right in front
of me, I mean, if he's qualified to do insurance RFP's or
not. I mean, it's a -- as we talked earlier, this is one of
the most important things, you know, we do with our
employees, and we need to make sure we have this right from
a coverage standpoint. So, I mean, my gut feeling is we
need a consultant to help us with that, which we don't have
budgeted, you know, but I think we need to do it. I'm not
saying we don't need to do this. I'm just saying we're
getting into an area that I become very uncomfortable in
making a vote because I'm not an expert on insurance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, don't
we already have a consultant in place who is compensated out
of a piece of the premiums?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our current carrier?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm talking about
Mr. Finley.
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No? What, he doesn`t
get --
COMMISSIONER	LETZ: He's	our	agent.
COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	-- a	commission on
E--03
113
1
2
3
4
J
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
2~
21
22
23
24
25
the insurance policies that we --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He represents an
insurance company. He represents -- I mean, he gets --
yeah, he's biased. I mean --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- he`s going to benefit
on the policies. I don't mean he's biased.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's going to benefit
no matter what the policy i:~?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, we need someone
who is not going to try to :oe our agent as well.
JUDGE TINLEY: As we -- as we talk of the
messiah, he comes through the back door.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There he is right
there. Right on time, man.
JUDGE TINLEY: We couldn't have cued you any
better, Victor,
MR. UVALLE: Can I help?
JUDGE TINLE`C: We`re talking about proposals
for insurance.
MR. UVALLE: All right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Preparing RFP's for insurance
and how difficult it is, and how expert guidance is needed.
And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And you walk in the door.
E-~-03
114

2
3
4
5
E
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. UVALLE: I can help you with that. I can
definitely help you. I got some sample bid specs that you
could use -- that every company could use to quote y'all
coverages. I got them in the car.
JUDGE TINLEY: Even before Victor walked in,
it was my intention to indicate that -- you know, we're
asking for an RFP to be put together, and what I was
anticipating would be that possibly myself, the County
Attorney, the Auditor, and rlaybe the Treasurer gather from
whatever resources or sources that we could find, including
Victor and his crew, and make a stab at putting something
together and bringing it back here. Now, the fact that we
bring it back here -- that's all we've done, is brought it
back here. You know, if the Court at that point decides
that it needs to be reviewed by some insurance guru or other
expert, that's up to the Ccurt at that time, but I think we
need to get started.
COMMISSIONEF: LETZ: T don't have a problem
getting started. I think ghat -- but if we`re really trying
to get. this done by our budget year, we need to -- and the
Court feels we need a guru,, we need the guru on board at our
next meeting, or as soon a:s possible thereafter. I mean,
because if we're to wait until the middle July to even get
the package prepared, and then you get -- I mean, there's no
way we'll have it by the bt-.dget. That's just -- it won't
-9-03
115
.-,.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
..-,
25
happen. Anyway, I don't think -- I don't think we can get
them back that quick, out and back.
JUDGE TINLEY: Victor?
COMMISSIONER	LETZ:	Can	we?
JUDGE TINLEY:	Did	you	have a comment about
the timing?
MR. UVALLE: ~'es. I was going to say, we
hate to see y'all go out for bids, but I don't think you're
going to have a problem with us, because most of your
coverages are with us. You will get all the information.
We have loss -- loss runs; They don't take that long to get
it for you. That's one good. thing we do provide. We got
claims information, how many vehicles you got. We got
property locations with addresses, construction types, all
that information for y'all.
JUDGE TINLEY: What about from other
third-party potential venders?
MR. UVALLE: They'll use
information to rate their -- to price i
except for the law enforcernent, I think
else we can help y'all with. You know,
everything pretty fast from us.
JUDGE TINLEY: What sort
th,
t.
we
so
of
~t same
And I think we -
have everything
you'll get
-- and I realize
you can't commit some third-party vendor. Once they have
the information in-hand, what`s the normal time frame for
r-9-03
116
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1~
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
them to be able to give a response to a proposal?
MR. UVALLE: Part -- a fast one would be
three weeks; at least three weeks for the -- to have it
already and then work it for three weeks.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. UVALLE: To get it back to you. That
will give you somethinq.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Victor.
Ms. Uecker?
MS. UECKER: Well, I
for your information, the bill that
about, the insurance bill, I think,
think TAC is the one that put a big
it would -- it affected their pool.
pool. Sorry, Victor.
MR. UVALLE: No, I'm
MS. UECKER: They're
just wanted to -- just
Jonathan was talking
was House Bill 834. I
old rock on it, because
It would affect that
familiar with that bill.
the ones that stopped
it.
JUDGE TINLEY': Are you speaking about the --
Senator Fraser's --
MS. UECKER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLE`~': Senate Bill 817.
MS. UECKER: 817.
JUDGE TINLEY: That popped in state employee
health coverage.
r-9-03
117
1
L
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,- 13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
~-.
25
MS. UECKER: exactly.
JUDGE TINLEY: One of the -- one of the
representatives on the legislative side at TAC that I talked
to told me personally that they were not taking an official
position on that bill or its companion, because --
MS. UECKER: For good reason. Because --
JUDGE TINLEY: Because that -- you know,
they -- it was a two-edged sword for them. They were in the
business on the one hand, and they had some county residents
that were in support of it on the other hand. So, he told
me -- I can't give Vou his lzame right now. I could probably
go look it up.
MS. UECKER: You mean at TAC?
JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon?
MS. UECKER: At TAC?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. He's one of the
Legislative bunch at TAC.
MS. UECKER: Carey Boethel? No, it wouldn't
JUDGE TINLES': I -- I don't recall it off the
top of my head right now, but he me told me TAC did not take
an official position on that bill, for or against.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the -- on the table,
we're going to have this back by July 14th?
JUDGE TINLEY: You can ask for it, yeah.
-G-o~
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
118
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I'll ask. Not
ask --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got a second, I
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion and second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is exciting.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does any --
SHERIFF HIERF~OLZER: Only comment I'd like to
make, Judge, is I like your idea about having the year start
October to October. It -- 'cause it's almost -- well, it is
pretty well impossible to figure out budget, such as this
year. Even though our insurance didn`t go up since last
January, when department heads are trying to figure their
budget, mine alone makes it look like it went up over
$200,000 this year, compared to what was in my budget for
it, and it really hasn't changed since January. So, I think
to where we can prepare our budget efficiently, we need it
October.
JUDGE TINLEY: For budgeting purposes, it
makes a tremendous difference, I think.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- go ahead.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tommy, could you
tell me roughly what our total annual insurance bill is in
these four categories?
6-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
119
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Victor can.
MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, I --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I'd have to
go to each department and acid it up. I can't find a total.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, are you including
workers comp?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. Two kinds of
liability.
MR. TOMLINSON: It's probably -- I would say
it's $300,000.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: For -- that`s
employee medical?
MR. TOMLINSON: Not including health
insurance.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not including health?
MR. TOMLINSCN: Not including health
insurance.
COMMISSIONEF: NICHOLSON: We`re talking large
numbers. Big chunk of numbers.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're talking about over one
and a half million dollars.. I can -- I can run those
numbers in my head right as we sit here. 1.2, 1.3 for
health. I saw 100 get slapped right on last December on law
enforcement. Then you got the physical loss and workers
'c-O-U3
1
-^ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
-. 13
14
15
16
17
18
i9
20
21
22
23
24
25
120
comp -- the workers comp, how much is it, Victor?
MR. UVALLE: 178, estimated.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We're already way
beyond one and a half million.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just -- just a
general statement, Judge. I like your approach on the
previous one and this one, and the next one we're going to
discuss about getting RFP's and try to get -- bring some
competition and some -- some efficiencies into these
numbers. So, even though i1. appears difficult on any of the
three of them, I'm supportive of them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nothing -- we`ve done the
same on both of the top two. We`ve done this in the past.
That's how we always do insurance. It's how -- it's just
how often we do insurance, and changing schedules. So, I
think it's -- you know, it's every -- probably every three
or four years, we go through the exercise. It needs to be
done every three or four years.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or
discussion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is due back by 7/14;
that will not make it on the next agenda. Do you want to
move the date to 7/7 so it can be on our agenda? Is that my
motion?
6-9-~3
121
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
~,. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MS. SOVIL: By July 14th?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the meeting. It
has to be in here by the 7th; that's the agenda date.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll change the
motion to be in here by the 7th.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, so it can get on the
agenda.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion or
questions? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.}
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item,
consider and discuss approval as ask for RFP's for following
services: Computer, telephone, and technical services.
COMMISSIONER. BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER; WILLIAMS: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same date?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes.
MR. TOMLINSON: I have a question about the
telephone part.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did we get a second?
~s1e can't ask questions unless -- okay.
-y-o~
122
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
i8
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. TOMLINSON: What -- are you talking about
equipment maintenance? Or --- or telephone? Is there --
JUDGE TINLEY: Technical services mainly is
what I'm speaking of.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the County doesn't own
this telephone system, so there's really nothing to
maintain. I mean, we have -- we have a rental agreement
with Kerrville Telephone Company.
JUDGE TINLEY: Setting up of the voice mail
circuits and all of that sort of stuff?
MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: All that`s done by the phone
company?
(Mr. Tomlinson nodded.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Good. That will make it that
much less, then.
MR. TOMLINSGN: I mean, you have to have -- I
mean, there needs to be soi~neone that -- that knows how to
run the system. I mean, o~~erate the -- the telephones. But
as far as the technical ma_~ntenance of the system, that's
their responsibility. I mean, we -- if you have a, you
know, phone on your desk that -- that goes out, you just
call and they brings us another one.
JUDGE TINLEY: What if you need to reprogram
that phone?
c'-~-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
,.,, 2 4
25
123
MR. TOMLINSOI~1: Well, you know, they will --
they will -- there's certain things that they will
reprogram. I'm not -- I'm riot real clear on what it is that
they will do, but there -- there is a computerized system,
and what has to do with re -- reprogramming the computer
part of it, they will do. I mean, as far as your individual
programming of your individ~~al phone, then no, they won't do
that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, would -- okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm just speaking about
whatever's not covered under existing lease-slash-purchase
and/or maintenance agreements that we've already got in
place and paid for.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think we need to --
I think we can clarify what. we're talking about here a
little bit more.
JUDGE TINLE~': Okay.
COMMISSIONEF: LETZ: I mean, on the computer,
what are we talking about, and what are we asking the RFP to
cover? Who we're going out for services on for computer?
JUDGE TINLE`~': We currently have a -- a
service dealing with compu~er information technology and so
forth.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, part -- part of the
system we -- we already have maintenance on. I mean, the --
6-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
5
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
~9
20
21
22
23
24
~-.
25
124
the courthouse-wide system is -- most of that equipment is
IBM equipment, and we -- when we purchased that -- that
equipment, we purchased -- we purchased a -- I think it was
five or six years maintenance on that -- on that equipment.
So, what. -- if that equipment goes down, we -- you know, we
have to contact IBM for them to come in and deal with it,
and they will either -- they will either fix it on the spot,
or they'll bring something in to replace it. That's what it
was.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean --
JUDGE TINLEY: That's fine.
MR. TOMLINSON: But that -- that part of it
does not need to be in the -- in the agreement. And I think
that's what Commissioner Letz was talking about.
JUDGE TINLEY: I certainly don't want to hire
somebody to do something we've already paid for.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we looking -- I'm
just trying to figure out what the motion is to do. I mean,
so far, computer, drew a line through that. Telephone, drew
a line through that. Technical services? Is that technical
support for the computers?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We tried.
COMMISSIONEf~ WILLIAMS: You're talking about
computer equipment or computer maintenance?
COMMISSIONE:~ LETZ: I didn't make the motion.
5-5-03
125
1
-^ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
---~ 13
i4
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I'm trying to figure out what the motion is that we're about
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand where
you're coming from. Now you got me confused. Are we
talking about maintenance or purchase of equipment?
JUDGE TINLEY: We're not talking about the
purchase of equipment. We're not talking about the
maintenance of equipment. .end, insofar as it's already
covered by service contracts, we're talking about assistance
with information technology to County employees,
departments, elected officials, and elements of county
government.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We currently have a
person on the payroll, do we not?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, we do.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Whose job
description is to give us help with information technology,
so we're talking about at least that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, technical -- you want
an RFP for technical suppoz°t for technology-related issues.
Okay, that's one of them. And the other one that I didn't
solicit is audit. Is that listed -- is that included in
technical services?
JUDGE TINLEY: Audit?
r-Q.-03
126
1
2
3
4
5
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We go through an annual
audit, and we haven't gone ~~ut for -- we talked about, when
we went through the last on~~, whether we need to go out
JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize for omitting that,
Commissioner Letz. I probably should have included an item
on that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Isn't that under
Professional Services?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it would be.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is not required
for an RFP.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's -- you can --
you certainly can do a Request for Qualifications on
professional services.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: RFQ.
JUDGE TINLEY: But -- it very well could be
the subject of another RFQ. But I -- I apologize for
omitting it, Commissioner Letz.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you just had when
we were going out, and I don't know that it's good, bad, or
indifferent. i think it's good to do this, but if we do
them all at once, it may be a little overwhelming.
MR. TOMLINSON: I'd like to make a comment on
that, if I could. This is GASB 34 year.
6-9-03
127
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What did you say?
MR. TOMLINSON: I said this is GASB 34 year.
I have already worked with our current people on that
process, and we -- we have an understanding about what they
are going to require. And this is the conversion year for
Kerr County.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So this is not a good
year to change? Is that wh:~t you're saying in your
recommendation?
MR. TOMLINSON: Right. I mean, I'm -- I'm
going to have to rely on them to -- to help me do this,
because they know our records.
second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I withdraw my
15
16 else.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't want to train anybody
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll withdraw it.
We're not going to talk about it any more.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're in luck, because
audit's not even in here.
MR. TOMLINSON: I know, but I don't want it
to be, either.
JUDGE TINLEY: My understanding is GASB's got
to be fully -- fully effective by the end of this current
budget year that we're in; is that not correct?
~-y-o~
128
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
„-.
25
MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. But -- but we
have -- we have to restate -she beginning balances for -- for
this year also, so what I'm having to do -- that's what I'm
doing right now, is going back to last year at the end of
'02 and restating all the --- all the balances that were on
our financial statement as cf that date. I have to make
sure that, since they were the auditors for that period,
then they are -- they're the ones that have to agree on what
the new balances are.
JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe I'm missing the point
here, but that's not on the agenda, so we'll --
MR. TOMLINSON: I know.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- we'll not talk about it
further. Back to the agenda item where we are.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I withdraw my second,
Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: You withdraw your second?
Okay. Who made the motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I did.
JUDGE TINLEY: You made the motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, and I'm
withdrawing it. I don't want to have anything to do with it
ever again.
JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay.
SHERIFF HIEF:HOLZER: May I still make a
r-°-U3
1
--- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
129
comment on the computer portion of that?
JUDGE TINLEY: You certainly may, because
that's --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think a lot of it --
not to beat around the bush, I think what we, as department
heads -- and Linda or Jannett can correct me if I'm wrong --
our problem is, we need the services, and that we need
somebody that will be there, help us fix our computers, our
desktop ones that break, help us get the best prices to --
to replace them. I still have viruses this morning. And we
need a service or a person that will be there for the county
when we need them and get oar computers working.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have an employee
that does that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll reiterate my same
-- same comment, okay? We have a problem there. Whether
it's not enough pay whatever it is, I don't know what it is,
but nobody in the county that I know of, any department, is
getting the services that we need. We're buying our own
computers on our own; we're fixing them on our own. I have
a deputy that's computer-knowledgeable that tries to fix
them, because we can't get the services that we should be
getting. That's what I'd like to see, if I can.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you for
focusing on the issue, Sheriff. At home, with my computer
6-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
h
7
8
9
10
11
12
^,, 13
14
15
16
,7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.^
25
130
system at home, my business, there's a person in the county
that provides that kind of service, and I pick the telephone
up and usually get my computer fixed over the telephone. If
not, that person comes out, charges me a very reasonable
price. Usually doesn't charge me when I talk to him on the
phone. And in the courthouse, I can't get that kind of
service. That is an issue. It's -- it may be an issue of
cost, I don't know, but it's certainly an issue of quality.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion on that one
point, and I'll second it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I make a motion that
we use a Request for Proposals for information processing
services. Just that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded that we approve th~~ preparation of a Request for
Proposals for information processing services. I assume
you're talking about for courthouse employees, departments,
so forth?
COMMISSIONER NICHCLSON: Kerr County.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further discussion
probably going to take more than one person.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, yeah. It's a
F-a-u3
1
^ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
131
company. Whether it's one person or -- that would be --
that would -- that answer wo~~ld be --
MS. UECKER: I mean, I don't know, 'cause I
haven't had anything to compare that with. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it would be a
consideration in the RFP. You can't -- you're not going to
limit it to one or a hundred. It's whatever they can do.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a vendor --
JUDGE TINLEY: That's a vendor issue.
MS. UECKER: Vendor issue. Okay, that's
fine.
MS. PIEPER: Now that we've handed our
budgets in, can we amend our budgets to reflect our services
that we can be getting now?
MS. UECKER: What?
MS. PIEPER: Well, if we're going to be able
to call somebody to come fix our -- I mean, if I'm
understanding this correctly, we'll be able to call somebody
and they can come and fix our computer at a reasonable rate.
Is that what I'm understanding?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, but I think it's
probably premature to change it. I think it's up to the
Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: What would -- if it were
outsourced, it would be a C'.ommissioners Court item, as I see
E-9-03
132
1
^ 2
3
4
5
6
-,
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
it now, for the entire county.
MS. PIEPER: Okay,
JUDGE TINLEY: So it really wouldn't reflect
a change in your budget.
MS. PIEPER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I hear that it
would if they are cutting fo.r this service. Is this in
their budget now? It is in their budget?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. We don't
know --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We do not account for
this service in our budget.
COMMISSIONEF. LETZ: Indirectly, you are. You
just told me you have a deN>uty that's doing it. You have
manhours going into this service. That means you have money
going into it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we don't know is
what outsources would cost for us as to what we're paying
and level of service you're going to get for those dollars.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's part of the reason for
the RFP.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We may get RFP's and
6-~-0~
133
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
1G
11
12
13
14
i5
16
17
18
i9
20
21
22
23
24
25
we'll say, "This is excessive=; we can't do that." Or
hopefully we'll get one that we say, "Yeah, that's better
service, and the cost is okay."
JUDGE TINLEY: And, you know, if the cost --
no, I'm not going there.
MR. UVALLE: Judge, Commissioners, I would
like to offer the services from TAC, the County Information
Resource Agency, and they do a lot of this stuff for
counties, and maybe they cars get their --
JUDGE TINLEY: For --
MR. UVALLE: Not the technical assistance
service, but to help maybe bout the proposal together, and
also maybe some things they can fix, maybe on-site and fix
some at this -- at that point. But if it happens again,
they're not on-site, but they could come make a visit and
make some corrections, and then -- then go back. But that
is one of the services TAC does for the technology area.
JUDGE TINLES': I am aware of that, the
information services, and _~t's -- I appreciate you bringing
that to the Court's attent_~on, victor. Any further
questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
r-,-u3
134
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item
on the agenda -- somebody used the term "bad penny."
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It just came back.
JUDGE TINLEY: Consider and discuss adoption
of the State Travel Allowance Guide as published by the
Comptroller for per diem allowances, reimbursement of
expenses for Kerr County elE~cted officials and employees out
of county on official business. This was on the agenda
earlier this year. It was i~abled, I think, primarily to let
the various elected officials or department heads give it
some thought, with the thought being that it would come back
prior to the budget process so that we`d know a little bit
-- have a better handle on i_t by then.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comments?
MS. PIEPER: What are y'all planning on
proposing?
JUDGE TINLEY': The -- the entire proposal or
possibility of proposal out there would be to adopt the
entire state plan, which would be mileage as per
Comptroller-published rates, or -- at their rate and at
their designated miles, the= per diem for meal expenses, the
limitations on lodging that are currently in effect. I
think those are the -- the primary ones. Some of the
discussion I heard earlier zeroed in pretty much on leaving
the -- the lodging rates alone. Whatever the actual cost
F~-y-o~
135
1
--~ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
was, reimbursement for that; i.e., take that outside of the
State employee's method of operation, but utilize the -- the
Comptroller's guide for per diems for meals, for mileage
rates and distances, is basically what I heard.
MS. UECKER: We're already using the
distance. But, you know, the figure -- the mileage, I don't
think -- I think the mileage that we're -- that the Court
approved is somewhat less, like a half a cent or something
like that, than what the State is. Meals, what was your
proposal on that?
JUDGE TINLEY: I think current guidelines
are -- $30?
MS. UECKER: $25. Is it $30?
MS. SOVIL: $25.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's $30 a day now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The cover sheet here
says $30, and in the back in your backup, it says $25.
MS. UECKER: But on the State, I'm
wondering -- State employees have that, because most State
employees -- well, they're not all in Austin, but most of
the stuff that they have to go to is in Austin already
anyway, so they're probably still getting -- and I think
that was mostly done for the legislative people that have to
come in. But just by coincidence, I was looking here at the
registration form for the proposed legislative seminar.
6-9-C3
136
1
-- 2
3
n,
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much?
MS. UECKER: Well, the registration has gone
way up. It's $225. But the hotel -- the Hyatt, of course,
is full, ar.d it was $133. The second choice is the Embassy,
which is $169. And the third choice, which is the Radisson,
is $105. So -- acid I don't think you're going to find a
whole lot -- yeah, you're going to find some that are less,
but when you consider the type -- you know, the amount of
rooms that they have, you're not going to find that much
that -- and, fer instance, our -- our association next year
is -- we're going to Del Lago. The rooms are going to be --
which I probably won't -- I may not attend for that reason,
but the rooms are going to be, like, $160-something a night.
There are no other hotels. So, you know, I would be in
agreement to the mileage ar..d the meals. I`ve always said --
I've told Commissioners CoL.rts for years, and Commissioner
Baldwin can verify that, treat I thought we should go to the
per diem on meals. But I think, at this point, I would
prefer to just leave the hotel alone, or raise it, 'cause
what I understand, we're even going to -- $80? Is that what
the State's is?
JUDGE TINLEY: The current state is $80, yes.
And the consensus I heard up to this point is that, because
of the concerns you mentioned, that maybe that's a little
too tight for us. Maybe we ought to just leave it actual
F-a-o~
137
1
"_, 2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
,.--. 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
reimbursable upon presentation of the --
MS. DECKER: Or I wouldn't be opposed to
raising to it $100, but I think the $80 comes from the --
the legislative people, and those people that are in Austin
that don't really have to go that far.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think state
employees get a different rate than the rest of us anyway,
don't they?
MS. PIEPER: They're also tax-exempt as well,
and we're not. But I would agree with Linda; I don't mind
the meals and the mileage, but leave the hotels alone.
JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy, how would that affect
-- would that simplify things for you? Especially on the
meals?
MR. TOMLINSON: Sure. Yeah, that would help.
MS. PIEPER: We bring back the receipts,
anyway. And I never eat $30 worth of food a day.
JUDGE TINLEY: You wouldn't have to do that.
You just -- if you wanted too draw -- you could draw your per
diem in advance, and that wouldn't be a problem.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you don't want to eat
JUDGE TINLEY: `t'hat -- this is updated. It's
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to point out
out --
$30.
h-~-03
138
1
--~ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
i4
15
16
17
18
19
2 Cl
21
22
23
24
25
this sheet in the back, though, and ask you a question about
this. It's --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What page?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know. 1
of 5. It's 3.03, overnight travel within Texas. Are you
there"? The (A) is meal expenses. And then the second
paragraph, it gives an exam~>le there. Tell me what that
means.
JUDGE TINLEY; If they're reimbursable. May
not exceed $25 -- which is :now $30 -- unless the exception
discussed in (C) applies.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, actually, my
point is -- I'm not into the number deal at this time, but
my point is, that's a little bit confusing. Are we adopting
this verbiage? And have we -- I have not read the whole
thing; I just kind of glanced over it. And I`m -- what are
we getting into?
COMMISSIONEF: WILLIAMS: Just -- there
essentially is no carryover.
COMMISSIONED BALDWIN: I like the idea of
going to these numbers of ~-- of the per diem and the meals,
and I agree with them on t:~e hotel thing. You can't qet a
hotel room for $80 anywhere. But the mileage and the meals,
I agree with. But I don't know if I want to agree with
adopting this stuff, you know, actually making this part of
F.-G-~' 3
139
1
-- 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
,--.
25
the County policy. I just -- I just don't know for sure.
I'm not willing to do that today. I'm not sure if it's the
MS. SOVIL: You might want to consider
adopting a Kerr County travel rule that is reliable --
relying upon what the State does for meals and -- and so
that you don't have to come in and change it every time,
just what the State does for meals and mileage.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Buster`s talking about
all the details.
MS. SOVIL: Well, you can do your own.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's what he's
saying. Do we do what we have, or do we adopt the State
rules?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, this thing --
if you adopt this document right here, it talks about hotel
taxes, if you're exempt or not. We're not. Texas -- or
State employees are.
MR. MOTLEY: It says somewhere in here that
they're not exempt and that; the State will reimburse them
for certain taxes. In there, I thought it said that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what it
says, but what -- my point is, if we adopt this document,
then we're adopting those things that don't -- do not apply
to us.
F-9-03
140
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MS. DECKER: It doesn't seem necessary, when
it could be much simpler.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, does -- does --
all right, I'm going to Aus~.in. I'm going to the thing --
and I'm not paying those ki~~d of moneys you're talking
about, by the way.
MS. DECKER: You're not paying the
registration?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I'm not. I'm
tired of paying it.
MS. DECKER: You know what? I don't think I
am either; I'm just going to walk in.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How do you like the
Y.M.C.A.?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When they transfer you
back down here, we'll have a place for you, Buster.
MR. MOTLEY: I want to mention one other
thing.
COMMISSIONEF: BALDWIN: Wait a minute, I
didn't get my question.
MR. MOTLEY: I'm sorry, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next thing I know, I'm
in jail. So, the County's going to give me $30 a day. I'm
e.-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
141
going to be up there for two days, so, Tommy, you're going
to hand me 60 bucks to eat or. while I'm up there, and I'm
not going to bring him any -- any kind of receipt back to --
to prove that -- I mean, I'm going to go to H.E.B. when I'm
up there, get me some sardines and crackers, sit in my motel
room -- my free hotel room arld eat my sardines and crackers
and pocket the money.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what per
diem's all about.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand.
MS. DECKER: And most counties have adopted
that. And while we're on that subject, I don't know if --
how many of you are aware that the legislative people,
Representatives acid the Senntors -- Buster might know -- you
know, they -- their salary __s, like, nothing. It's, like,
$7,000 a year. But they get= $110 a day, whether they stay
at home, whether they stay with a friend, whether they stay
in a $6 hotel or what, and ~~hey don't eat at all. That's
how they make their money.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. That's
true.
MS. DECKER: And that's what that -- that
scale was based on.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the lobbyist turns in the
expense account, right?
6-9-03
--~ 2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,,.., 13
14
15
16
li
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I42
COMMISSIONER 3ALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: I see.
MR. MOTLEY: I just want to -- I don't know
if Buster is finished there, but I did a lot of traveling
under these rules back when I was in the Attorney General's
office, and I always had to leave Austin; I'd go to all
these district Highway Department offices. There was one in
Dallas; I went straight up 35 and went straight over to it,
and put my -- you know, I'd write my mileage down and it
would be 224 miles, and you look at the state mileage guide
when you get back, and it's 212 or 185. And I used to call
and say, "Well, what's the deal?" They said, "Well, our
mileage is figured on taking any road, Farm-to-Market,
whatever we can do. That computer figures the shortest
route."
MS. UECKER: It's by crow, as the crow flies.
MR. MOTLEY: It is. And I'm just going to
tell you, it's not exactly what a person would drive. It
will give you some idea of about how far it is, but they're
usually about 90 percent, or about 10 percent shy on those.
That was just my experience on it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I had the same
experience when I went to Forth Worth to our meeting. I
punched the odometer when I left home and checked it when I
got home and turned it in to Thea, and they cut me back
-P-G3
143
1
2
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
.-,
25
about 50 miles.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I think that's fair.
Otherwise, you'll have employees take the long way around
and try and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They'll use extra per
diem money for that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I'm okay with
it.
MS. UECKER: Every time I go to the capitol
and come back, it's about -- I think it's, like, 26 miles
shy of what the -- and that's going straight from here to
the capitol.
COMMISSIONER. NICHOLSON: I'm okay with
approving the per diem for meals and using the state
mileage, but is there -- do we need to study the rules more
before we finally act on it? Is that what I'm hearing?
COMMISSIONED LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Too many exceptions
and variables in these rules.
JUDGE TINLEY: You can just adopt your own,
as I see it, of the -- of the amount of the per diem, and
adopt the state mileage and the state rates on both of them.
But -- but not adopt any of the rules.
COMMISSIONI~R LETZ: I make a motion that we
adopt the $30 per diem for meals, the state -- the state
E-~-o?
144
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
a
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
mileage rate or state mileage guide.
MS. DECKER: And distance?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And distance guide. And
lodging will be done on a --
MS. SOVIL: Actual.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- actual basis.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And those will be
adjusted as the State adjusts them on a biannual basis, I
believe.
MS. SOVIL: Effective October 1?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tied to the state rates.
And we are not changing travel policy in our --
MS. SOVIL: Effective October 1?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, effective October
1.
JUDGE TINLE`~: Motion's been made and
seconded. Any further dis~~ussion or questions? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next
item --
MS. DECKER: What's the effective date on it?
~- ~-o~
145
i
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
._.,, 13
14
15
16
1?
i8
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER LETZ: October 1.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: October 1.
MS. SOVIL: Are they going to -- is everybody
going to use the form to turn in to the Auditor's office?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was a pretty
good-looking form --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If Tommy's got a form he
wants us to use.
JUDGE TINLEY: I imagine it's somebody else's
form.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear what I
said? I think Tommy should create a form, or it can be the
state form, whatever he wants to use. He has to deal with
it.
JUDGE TINLEY': Next item, consider and
discuss approval to apply f-or Kerr County's portion of
unclaimed money received from electric co-ops. That came in
last week, belatedly. The only requirement, as you can see,
is that we must apply for it in June or July, and we must
certify that the purpose of the funds would be in compliance
with provisions of Section 381.004 of the Local Government
Code. It's economic development money.
COMMISSIONER. BALDWIN: I move we authorize
the County Judge to apply.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. My question
h-G-o~,
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1?
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
146
is, are we sure we're on the list? Are we just trying a
shot in here?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if we don't apply, we
won't get on that list.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand.
Is some money owed us?
JUDGE TINLEY: Don't know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what we don't
know?
JUDGE TINLEY: Don't know. Presumably, it's
out of the -- the capital credits fund from the elected
co-ops that accumulate, you know -- does anybody on the
Court belong to a co-op? Fhone or whatever? You accumulate
capital credits.
COMMISSIONER. LETZ: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLES': And those sometimes go
unclaimed, and they accede to the State.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we did this
several years ago. We got a little bit.
MS. SOVIL: $35, I think.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN; That will buy Rusty a
new car.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not near as good as
that rare book that we've got.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the best deal
r,-G-n;
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
li
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
147
yet.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You checked it back
in yet?
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All
in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.}
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's move
on down. Let's talk about the bills.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the
bills, Judge.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
we pay the bills as presented. Any discussion?
COMMISSIONEF: BALDWIN: Yes, sir, I've got a
question. I thought I had twc -- I do have two. On Page 3,
under the County Attorney --- without me looking up, is
Motley still in the room?
MS. PIEPER: Yes.
COMMISSIONE:~ BALDWIN: That's what I was
afraid of.
MS. UECKER: Thanks to his cigarette that he
left.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The next to the last
S-G-o~
148
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
2.0
21
22
23
24
.-..
25
one, it's paid to Kerr County Collections for reimbursement
for conferences. We11, why is everybody looking at me like
I'm an idiot? Is this something normal? No.
MR. TOMLINSON: He paid for it out of his
collection money, and we're reimbursing that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't get it.
MR. TOMLINSO]V: It was budgeted for -- to
come out of county funds.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He --
MR. TOMLINSON: And he paid for it out of --
out of his collection account.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He is paying our
Collections Department for --
MR. TOMLINSGN: No, no, no, no, no.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that say?
JUDGE TINLEY: He has a collection account
for hot checks collection.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a different --
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Different deal. Thank
you so much.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, absolutely.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 6, cell phone for
-~-o~
149
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
..~
25
Travis Hall. Just $128 reimbursement for cell phone. Is
that -- is that on our list that we purchase for that
department?
MR. TOMLINSOTJ: We -- it's -- we budgeted
for -- for telephone for that -- yeah, for that department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So if we -- if we
budget for a telephone of a department, they use it wherever
they want? I want to look at the D.P.S. stuff this year. I
personally don't think that we need to -- the County should
be buying a cell phone, or bullets or guns or vests for a
State employee. And if we're going to do these things, I
think we're going to have to get real specific in what we
pay for and what we don't pay for.
COMMISSIONER. LETZ: That`s not a bad idea.
COMMISSIONEF: BALDWIN: That was all.
COMMISSIONEF: NICHOLSON: I`ve got one
question, Tommy. On Page 8, reimbursing Turtle Creek
Volunteer Fire Department, Comfort Volunteer Fire
Department. Is it true that Comfort saved up all their
receipts for their costs and brought them in, and you paid
them their full $11,000, a.~d then Turtle Creek came in with
$5,622 and you reimbursed them for that amount?
MR. TOMLINSON: Right, that's correct.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And then my question
is -- follow-on is, in your experience with Turtle Creek,
E-~-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
,~, 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
2i
22
23
24
25
150
will they incur the full $11,000?
MR. TOMLINSOPd: Oh, yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, nobody comes in
short on that?
MR. TOMLINSOr1: No, they get their money.
You car_ count on that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's it. That's
my question, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Back on -- just below the
D.P.S. cell phone, we've got an entry of over $10,000,
Airport Contract Expense. `Tell me what that's in connection
with.
MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not sure what -- I'd have
to look that one up. But we --
JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we need to.
MR. TOMLINSON: They say it`s a budget item.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a different
number than what we dealt ~,~~ith this morning, I can tell you.
I looked -- I did compare the numbers.
MR. TOMLINSC>N: We have a contract with the
City for -- to pay them a certain amount, but I don't
remember the amount.
JUDGE TINLE'~: Well, the only thing, as I
recall, in the current budget has to do with -- with some
grant match moneys.
r-G-o3
1
2
3
4
5
6
i
8
9
i0
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
151
MR. TOMLINSON: We're paying them, let's see,
$123,500 for this year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As our piece of the
airport?
MR. TOMLINSON: And it's $10,291.67 per
month.
	JUDGE TINLEY:	What's	the 123,000? Was
that --	was that our portion	of -- of	grant matching funds?
	MR. TOMLINSON:	That's	what I'm remembering,
I'm not	positive about that,	but I --	I remember that that
was on	the -- that was on the	budget	that we got from the
City.			
JUDGE TINLEY: That's on that grant, our
portion of it; it's fifty-fifty. They get half, we get
half, okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll third the motion.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further
discussion or questions? All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. We now have
budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1.
MR. TOMLINSON: This is for Courthouse
'c-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
i0
11
12
,~ 13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
152
Maintenance. We have a bit.L for $800 to Southern Steel
Company. Our request is for an amendment of $50 to be
transferred from Miscellanesus to Conferences, Dues, and
Subscriptions. And we have -- I have a -- I need a hand
check for $800 to Southern Steel, and it's for a conference
for -- for Maintenance. It's a five-day seminar for -- I
think it's Harold Evans is the one that's going.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If I may explain,
probably what that is, Glenn normally sends somebody through
that Southern Steel lock school and that, where some of his
maintenance people are able to repair some of the Locks out
at the jail. That may be what that is. But that's -- all
the locks are Southern Steel.
COMMISSIONEF: LETZ: Mississippi locks?
SHERIFF HIEFZHOLZER: I don`t know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we approve.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
Budget Amendment Request Number 1 be approved and a hand
check be authorized in the sum of $800 to Southern Steel.
Any further discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
h-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
,~.. 13
14
15
16
i7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
153
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, do you remember
that about the Southern locks? You remember what we went
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do.
JUDGE TINLEY: Budget Amendment Request
Number 2.
MR. TOMLINSON: This is for County Court.
It's a request to transfer $371.50 from Court-Appointed
Attorney line item to Statement of Facts. And I also have a
-- a late bill I need a hand check for to Kathy Banik.
COMMISSIONEF: WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONEF: LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLES.': Motion made and seconded to
approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2 and authorize hand
check to Kathy Banik for 3"7 -- or, excuse me, 471.50. Any
further discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget
Amendment Request 3.
MR. TOMLINSON: This request is for the 198th
and 216th Courts, to transfer $1,078.58 from Court-Appointed
_~;_-;?
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1 `7
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
154
Attorney line item in 198th Court, $30 from Court-Appointed
Attorneys in the -- line item in the 216th Court, $692.50
was in transcripts for the 198th, $356.08 goes to
Court-Appointed Services for the 198th Court, $30 in Books,
Publications, and Dues for the 198th Court, and $30 for
Books, Publications, and Dues for the 216th Court.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- or first.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
MR. TOMLINSON: I do need a -- a hand check
for the $692.50 to Linton 'Tomlin for the transcript.
JUDGE TINLE~': Motion made and seconded,
Budget Amendment Request Number 3 be approved and hand check
authorized to Linton Tomlin for $692.50. Any further
discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLE'~': All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget
MR. TOMLINSON: This request is from the
County Clerk to transfer $11.91 from Deputy Salaries to
Overtime.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
-~-o~
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
li
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
155
JUDGE TINLEY:. Motion made and seconded that
Budget Amendment Request 4 be approved. Any further
discussion? All in favor, signify by raising your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.}
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget
Amendment Request Number 5.
MR. TOMLINSON: This is for the County
Attorney to transfer $323.86 from Postage to Books,
Publications, and Dues.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLE`.~: Motion made and seconded that
Budget Amendment Request Number 5 be approved. Any further
discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question would be,
are they books or are they publications or are they dues?
MR. MOTLEY: They're both. They're books and
-- I think Westlaw, if I'm not mistaken, that ended up --
that cleared that account out.
MR. TOMLINti~ON: It's Texas Criminal Practices
Guide.
MR. MOTLEY: So, Westlaw subscription.
c-9-03
1
^ 2
3
4
5
6
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
,.~ 2 4
25
156
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion? All
in favor, signify by raisin~~ your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
{No respcnse.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Budget
Amendment Request Number 6.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This is for the
Sheriff's Office and the Jail. It's a transfer of $563 from
Deputies Salaries to Investigation Expenses for the
Sheriff's Office, and transferring $1,407.33 from Operating
Supplies to Capital Outlay for a camera in the jail.
COMMISSIONER. LETZ: Replacement camera?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Our booking camera went
out. Mug shot camera.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
Budget Amendment Request Number 6 be approved. Any further
discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I were going to ask
a question, which I'm not --
JUDGE TINLEY: I see.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if I were going
6-9-03
1
L
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
i9
20
21
22
23
24
25
157
to, I would say, Rusty, how do you -- how do you have so
much salary money there when we don't have enough people as
it is? But, thank God, I don't have to ask those kind of
questions, huh?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate you not
asking .
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're welcome, Jon.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion?
Thoughts of questions? All in favor --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Harder and harder to get
people to work for Kerr Cour:ty, Buster.
JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget
amendment Request Number 7.
MR. TOMLINSON: We -- we've received a
quarterly payment for Senate Bill 7, indigent health -- I
mean indigent defense reimbursement, $6,354. This amendment
is to increase the revenue budget for -- for those funds for
other revenues for Senate Bill 7, and to correspondingly
increase the -- the Court-Appointed Attorney line item for
the County Court at Law.
-_-03
158
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
~3
24
25
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
Budget Amendment Request Number 7 be approved. Any further
discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- why County
Court at Law? Is that the only -- is that specifically for
that?
MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's for any court, but
they're out of money.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good reason.
JUDGE TINLEY: Cavalry to the rescue.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wondered if it
was designated for some type of court.
MR. TOMLINSO;V: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Budget
E-9-03
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
1 L
13
14
15
16
l~
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
159
Amendment Request Number 8.
MR. TOMLINSCN: This is a request from the
District Clerk to transfer $619 from Office Supplies to
Maintenance Contracts. It's for a Pitney Bowes postage
machine.
COMMISSIONER NICHCLSON: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's been made and
seconded. Any further questions or discussion? I'm sure
that Buster doesn't have a question, 'cause he doesn't ask
those questions.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't.
JUDGE TINLEY: About why was $5,100 left in
the Office Supplies.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would never ask that
with the District Clerk sitting in the room.
JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. Any further
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion ~~arried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have
any late bi11s? All right. I have before me a transcript
cf the minutes of the regul<~r Commissioners Court agenda on
E-G-03
160
1
2
3
4
5
6
i
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
1i
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Monday, May the 12th; of the special emergency Commissioners
Court agenda meeting Friday, May the 16th; the Commissioners
Court workshop of Monday, May the 19th; and the special
Commissioners Court meeting of Tuesday, May 27th. Do I hear
a motion that these be approved as presented?
COMMISSTONER NICHOLSON: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
the stated transcripts be approved as presented. Any
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. I also
have before me monthly reports from the County Clerk,
Sheriff, J.P. 1, and J.P. 4.. Do I hear a motion that these
reports be approved as presented?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
the monthly reports of the County Clerk, Sheriff, J.P. 1,
and J.P. 4 be approved as presented. Any further questions
or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
F-G-;;~
161
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
,g
19
20
2i
22
23
24
25
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.}
JUDGE TINLEY: A11 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay. We're
now down to the inforliiation agenda. Reports from
Commissioners. Do you have any reports for us today?
Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. We are -- you
knew, the 911 issue of mailing out the mass letters in
September is -- we're getting close to having -- finalizing
everything, getting everything in order and in line to do
that. Commissioner Letz acid I have a meeting either -- he
didn`t know about it -- have a meeting with them next week
sometime to, I think, till in the last. pothole or get over
the last hurdle or whatever -- however you want to say it,
to get that thing done. F3ut that's -- that's about it.
That`s about it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two items, Judge.
This afternoon, Dave Tucker of Grantworks and I will join a
representative of O.R.C.A., I believe -- of the State to
walk over the project and see the progress and so forth so
she can file a report back as to what's taking place.
Secondly, I think we talked about -- Sunday or Monday in the
board meeting?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I only do my burn ban
F-G-~~
162
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
1C
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
..-.
25
until Sunday at 7 p.m.
COMMISSIONER 6tiILLIAMS: I'm going to take my
burn ban off, Judge, until Sunday at 7 p.m.
COMMISSIONER ~VICHOLSON: I will also.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have anything further?
(Commissioner Williams shook his head.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, ene, burn ban is
off for Precinct 3 until Sunday, ~ p.m. And, second, this
is -- I haven't talked to Dave this morning, but if the
Court is agreeable, I'll probably call a workshop for next
Monday, either 9:00 or 10:00, makes no difference to me, to
give an update on where we are on O.S.S.F. This is a result
of the committee meetings that Dave and I have been having
with members of U.G.R.A. Board. And we don't have a final
product, but we're just at a point that I think we'd like to
probably hear from Commissioner Williams what he's found out
frcm the financial side of it, and also kind of make sure
that Precinct 3 and 4 are not way off base in what the
Court -- direction the Court wants to take on O.S.S.F. So,
kind of give us an update on that. Nothing final, it will
be just be more of a discussion as to where we are and
progress report. And, if possible, I think we'll also put
in that workshop an update of where we are on Subdivision
Rules update. Only reation I say that`s a possible on that
r.-9-"3
163
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1 1
12
13
14
1 J
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
one is because I'll be out of town. Thursday and Friday.
Depends if we can get enough of that done. Certainly, we
can have a walk-through on Subdivision Rules. There aren't
any real substantive changes, but there are quite a few
changes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, appreciate that.
Commissioner Nicholson?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSUN: No, I don't have
anything else.
JUDGE TINLEY: Burn ban?
COMMISSIONER. NICHOLSON: Off until 7 p,m.
Sunday.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Do you have
anything on your burn ban?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm following the
leader.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're off -- Precinct
1 is off until 7 p,m. thi:~ coming Sunday?
COMMISSION'~R BALDWIN: Yes, sir, that is
correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All right. Do we have
any elected officials or department heads out there that
want to share anything with us? Any boards, commissions, or
committee reports? I do:z't even see Road and Bridge still
here. Don't see Maintenance here.
-~-o~
164
1
,,,.._ 2
3
4
5
6
7
9
1C
11
12
13
14
15
16
1i
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
corner.
COMMISSIONER L,ETZ: Lunch is right around the
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it appears that lunch is
right around the corner.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to
comment. I think Rusty needs to issue sun shades to all of
us when these employees come in here, and that glare -- look
at that glare off of his -- hi, Brown.
JUDGE TINLEY„ Being nothing else to come
before us, I'll declare the meeting adjourned.
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:40 p.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS ~
COUNTY OF KERR I
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 16th day of June, 2003.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY: __ ~ _ __ _____
-l-- ~~~~---- -
Kathy~k, Deputy Coun.ty~Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
e.-a-o~
oRnER No. ~s i ¢~~
--~ APPROVAL OF ROUTINE AIRPORT h1AINTENANCE PROGRAM
GRANT FR01+1 TXnOT FOR
FY `~0~:-~:~~~ AIRPORT ]:MF'ROVEMENTS
On this the 9th day of June, ~~~+5 ~_ipon motion made by
Commissioner, Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin the
Co~_u~,t ~_rnanimotisly appr~nved by vote of 4-tD-~, of the f2o~_~tine
Air~por°t Maintenance Pr^ngr-am Grant from Txnot far, the c~~c-`~~r3
Air~por,t improvements.
ORDER NO. c811@
ARF'ROVAL OF' RDAD NAME CHANGES FOR
F'RIVATEI..Y MAINTAINED ROADS
On this the S day of June, S-~~S ~_tpon motion made by
Commissioner Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner Williams
the Co~~r~~t unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-Q~, of road
name changes for privately maintained roads in various
locations in I~:er-~r Co~_~nty in accordance with 9-1-~1 G~_~idelines
as presented by Road and L~r~idge Department.
Road names are as follows:
E7(I ST I NG ROAD NAME
~'c4c
1cF~~
~:iT~
:=1 ~`6
c1~4
Sam Ho~_iston R
Shermans Mill
`c1tZ~
cQ-e9
Shady Creek
NAME CHANGE
Logo Vista Trl W
Cane Ln E
Mesquite Rd W
Cactus Trl W
Terry Rd W
Shermans Mill Cir S
Graves Rd W
Roaring Rock Rd W
Ne~:tha~_is Rd SW
ORDER NO. `8111
-- AP'P'ROVAL OF PAYMENT TO CLTY OF I'.ERRVILLE
FOR INSTALLATION OF A "FLOW METER"
FOR KERRVILLE 50UTH WA57"EWATER PROJECT
TCDP' #7~: i 07~
On this the 'nth day of J~_ine, `Q~4.~5, ~_~pon motion made by
Commissione7„ Williams, seconded by Commissioner Paldwin, the
Co~_irt ~_~nanimo~asly approved by a vote of 4-O-Qr, of payment to
City of Kerrville for installation of a "Flow Meter" as
req~_tired by sewage treatment contract between UGRA and City
of I'.errville for the lier,rville 5o~_~th Wastewater Project TCDP' #
7:105 not to exceed ~~15,~Qt~.O~.
ORDER NO. ~811~'
APPROVAL OF CHANGE bRDER #~
FOR THE I'.ERRVILLE SOUTH WASTEWATER PROTECT
TCDP # 7E1~75
On this the lath day of J'~_ine, cQ~03 ~_~pon motion made by
Commissioner~ Williams, seconded by Commissioner~ Paldwin, the
Ca~_ir~t unanimously approved by a vote of 4-Q~-@, of Change
Or~der~ Nn. ~ to increase the cnntr~act with Campton Construction
by ~8,c6~, increasing the total contract to ~W75,695 for the
p~_irpnse to connect Ripplewood and Rancher~o Roads for the
I'.er~rville So~_~th Wastewater F'raject TCDP #?`1r~75.

ORDER NO. c811.=,
APPROVAL TO EXTEND CONTRACT WITH COMF'TON CDNSTRUCTION
..- TO SERTEh1BER ~Q~, `~~~
FOR THE F'.ERRVILLC SOUTFf WA5TEWATER PROJECT
TCDP#7`1+75
Dn this the 9th day of J~_me, `~0,?, ~_ipon motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner, Laaldwin, the
Co~_irt ~ananimo~.xsly approved by a vote of 4--~-0, to extend
contract with Compton Constr~_iction to September, .?,0, `~03 and
r-~ed~_~ce retainage from 1~-"/• to ~/ for the N.errville So~_tth
Wastewater Project TCDF' #7~ib75.
ORDER tVO, :'A 114
APPROVAL OF WAIVER OF LIG!UIDATED DAMAGES
,.~ FOR 7HE FSERRVILLE 50UTH WASTEWATER PROJECT
TCD~° #7E 1075
On this the 9th clay of J~_ine, ~:~~,?, ~_ipon motion made by
Commissioner, Williams, seconded by Commissioner L~aldwin, the
Co~_~rnt unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-Q~, the waiver, of
liq~_~idated damages far the N:err~•vi11e 5a~_~th Wastewater Project
TCDF' #7c1~75 due to delays beyond control of contractor
thro~_~gh Se ptember~ 5+~, `~Q+~;,.

ORDER NO. c8115
AP'P'ROVAL DF ROAD NAME CHANGES FOR COUNTY MAINTAINED ROADS
IN VARIOUS LOCATIONS IN N.ERR COUNTY IN
ACCORDANCE WITH 9--1-1 GUIDELINES AND REGULATORY SIGNS
On this the 9th day of J~_~ne, `OQ~~, ~_rpon motion made by
Cammissioner~ Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner's Williams,
the Co~_~rt unanimously approved by a vote of 4-2t-Qi, of road
name changes far' co~_~nty m~~intained ro~~ds in var~io~_ts locations
in I'.err County in accordance with 9-1-1 G~_~idelines and
reg~_~latary signs as fallaws:
Existing Name
1759tLnd portion of Old Hwy 1GS)
1758 (1st port ion of Old F-fwy 1E,S)
Peech/Peach Rd W
Estes Cottges Rd NW
Regulatory Signs
NAME CHANGE
Lantana Rd S
Liggett Ln S
L~yas Springs Rd W
Pethel Way NW
Stop Upper T~_u•,tle Creek at Rocky Hill
No Parking Rocky Hi11 (from UTC to 1st Sharp Left
curve)
No D~_imping Scott
No Parking E,1~ Rim Rock
ORDER NO. ^c811E,
.- AP'P'ROVAL TO ASK FOR REG~UEST FOR F'RDPDSALS
FOR REGULAR RECURRING SERVICES
0n this the 9th day of J~_~ne, `Q~03 ~_~pon motion made by
Commissioner, Lets, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the
Co~_~rt ~_~nanimously approved by a vote of 4-~-Q~, to prepare a
doc~_~men+~ for req~_iest for, proposal for, reg~_~Iar rec~_~rring
services for, Heating/Air, Conditioning, Electrical and F'l~_~mbing
and to bring doc~_iment back to the Go~art by the end of J~_~ne
`~~3.

ORDER N0. X8117
AF'F'RDVAL TO ASN. FOR REG?UES7 FOR P'ROP'OSALS FOR
INSURANCE
On this the nth day of J~_~ne, `DDS ~_ipon motion made by
Commissioner Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner, Williams, the
Co~_~rt tinanimo~asly approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to ask for
r-~eq~_iest for' proposals for Health; Physical Loss/Cas~_~alty;
Liability/Law Enforcement Liability and Worl~sman's
Compensation Ins~_~rance to be bro~_~ght bacE< to Commissioners'
Co~_irt on the July 14, c~~,=, meeting.
ORDER ND. c8118
APPROVAL TO ASI'. FOR REG!UEST FOR P'ROP'OSALS FOR
..~ FDR TECHNICAL SERVICES
Dn this the 9th day of J~_-ne, `00~ ~_-pon motion made by
Commissioner, Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner, Lets, the
Count unanimously approved by a vote of 4-Q~-0, that we
approve the pr-~epar-~ation of a Req~_-est for, P'r'oposals for
information processing services for t~,err Ca~_-nty.

~.
ORDER N0. `8119
AP'P'ROVAL TO ADOPT STATE TRAVEL ALLOWANCE GUIDE
On this the 9th day of J~_~ne, `Q~~S ~_~pon motion made by
Commissioner, Let:, seconded by Commissioner, Nicholson, the
Co~_~rt unanimously approved by a vote of 4-Q~-0, to adopt the
the ~~S~.tZiO per, diem for meals and and the State of Texas
mileage rate of .v30 cents for the act~_ial mileage, to be
ad,j~_~sted as the State adj~_ists t;hem on a biannual basis
effective October 1, ~t~0.?,.
DRDER N0. E81~0
AP'P'ROVAL TO AF'F'LY FOR N.ERR COUNTY'S F'ORTIDN
OF UNCLA I 1+1ED MDNEY
On this the 9th day of J~_rne, ~DO~ ~_rpon motion made by
Commissioner- Lets, seconded by Commissioner Haldwin, the Co~_rrt
~.-nanimotrsly approved by a vote of 4-D-0, to apply for, I'.er~r
Co~_mty's portion of ~_rnclaimed money received from electric
cooperatives.

DRDER NO. ?81:1
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
On this the 9th day of J~_~ne, :00.:, came to be considered by
the Co~_~rt various Commissioners' precincts, which said Claims
and Acco ~_~nt s are
10-General far ~8.=,, 667. 38; 14-Fir~~e Protect ion for ~c4, 9JJ. 40;
1~~-Road ~ L~ridge far X98, 48`. E-,1; 18-Co~_~nty La4v Library for
~~, Ec7. ~?5; 19-F'~_~bl is Library for ACC, 098. 33; ~~-Indigent
Health Care for X17, 801. ~~'.
TDTAL CASH REG!U I RED FOR ALL FUNDS ~::E,O, 8.=,c.ci9
Upon motion made by Commissioner Williams, seconded by
Commissioner Lets, the Co~_irt unanimo~.~sly approved by a vote of
4-0-0, to pay said accounts.
ORDER hlO. E81~:`
BUDGET AMEIVDMEhIT IN COURTHOUSE R• RELATED BUILDINGS
On this the 9th day of J~_tne `~~3, ~_~pon motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the
Co~_irt unanimously approved by a vote of 4-~-Q~, to transfer,
~~~. ~~ from Line Item No. 1~-~1~-499 P~liscellaneo~_is to Line
Item No. 1~+-JiQ~-48J Cnnfer-~ences, D~_tes, R S~_ibs. The Co~_inty
A~_~ditor and Co~_mty Treas~_irer are Hereby a~_ithoriaed to write a
hand check in the amount of ~8~~.~~ for a late bill to
So~_lthern Steel Company for a registration fee.

ORDER N0. ~81~3
BUDGET AMENDMENT IN CDUNTY CDURT
On this the 9th day of J~_-ne, `0~?, ~_-pan motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Lets, the
Co~_-rt ~_-nanimo-.isly approved by a vote of 4-Q~-0, to transfer
~371.5~ from Line Item No. 10-4LE~-4+~E Co~_-rt Appointed Atta~r~ney
to L1Tle Item No. i~t-4LE-497 Statement of Facts. The Co~_-nty
Tr-eas~_-rer and Co~_-nty A~_-ditar are hereby a~_-thori~ed to write a
hand Check for a late bill in they amo~_-nt of $471.~~ made
payable to Y.athy Panik for statement of facts in J01-~:4D.
ORDER N0. ~81~:4
_, PUDGET AMENDMENT IN THE
198TH DISTRICT COURT AND
THE c'16TH DISTRICT COURT
On this the 9th day of ~'~_ine, ~'Q~Q~3 ~_tpon mot i an made by
Commissioner, Lets, seconded by Cammissioner• Paldwin, the Co~_trt
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to transfer
~1, X78.08 from Line Item No. 1~-436_4` Ca~_irt Appointed
Attorney and to transfer ~30.~~ from Line Item No. 1~-430-4-~
Co~_~r~t Appointed Attorney with ~3~. ~k to Line Item No.
1~-4~0-.jiJ Baoks-P~_~bl icat ions-D~_tes; with ~~,~+. ~0 tv Line Item
Pdo. 1~-436-310 Paoks-F'~_~blications-D~_~es; with X356.08 to Line
Item No. 1~-436-4~1 Ca~_~rt Appointed Ser-~vices; with ~69c.0~ to
Line Item No. 1~-436-497 Co~_~r,t Tr•~anscripts. The County
'" Treasurer and County A~_iditor are hereby a~_~thori~ed to write a
hand check to pay late bill, in the amo~_~nt of ~69E.5~ to Linton
Tamlin, C. S. R. for co~_~rt transcript for R~_~f~_~s W. Smith.
ORDER NO. :_81E5
PUDGET AI~'IENDMENT IN THE COUNTY CLERI'.
On this the 7th day of J~_~ne, EOQ~S ~_~pon motion made by
Commissioner^ Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner^ Lets, the
Co~_~r^t ~.~nanimo~asly appr^oved by a vote of 4-Qi-O, to tr^ansfer^
X11. G1 fr^om Line Item No. 10-42t~?,-1~~+ Dep~_ity Salary to Line
Item No. 1~~-4~~,-11~ Over^time ir. th-~e Co~_inty Cler^k's office.
ORDER NO. `81c6
BUDGET AMENDh1ENT IN THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
Dn this the 9th day of J~_cne, G~G~ ~_~pon motion made by
Commissioner Lets, seconded by Commissioner° Baldwin, the Co~_crt
unanimoc_csly approved by a vote of 4-0-Qc, to transfer, ~CLG.86
from Lit-~e Item Na. 10-475--~.:~-~`~ Postage to Line Item No.
1~--475-315 Books-F'~_cblications-D~_ces in tl-ie Co~_cnty Attorney's
Off ice.

ORDER NO. c81~:7
EIUDGET AMENDMENT IN THE SHERIFF='S DEPARTMENT
AND THE COUNTY JAIL
On this the nth day of J~_~ne, c~03 ~_tpon motion made by
Commissioner Lets, seconded by Commissioner, Nicholson, the
Co~_irt ~_~nanimo~_rsly approved by a vote of 4-Q~-0, to tr'ansfer'
~1,4~T.^~, from Line Item No. i0-~iI=-JJ1 Operating S~_~pplies to
Line Item N0. 1~-51L--57Q+ Capital 0~_-tlay and to transfer
~5~.3.00 from Line Item No. 1-Z~--~~0-1~4 Dep~_ities Salaries to
Line Item Na. iQ~-OED-c~8 Investigation Expenses in the
Sheriff's Department and tFie Co~_inty Jail.
ORDER ND. ~:81c8
BUDGET AMENDMENT IN COUNTY CDURT AT LAW
.._ AND GENERAL FUND REVENUES
Dn this the nth day of J+_ine, L~~3 +_~pon motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the
Co+_tr~t unanimously approved by a vote of 4-Q~-Q~, to recognise
f+_~nds from the State for Indiger7t Defense Senate Pill 7 and
to incr~ease Line Item No. l~-4`7-4Q~~ Co+_~rt Appointed Attorney
by ~E, ~?,54. 0-Z~ and to increase Line Item No. i~-37~-PS-Z- Dther
Reven+_~e-SB7 by ~E,, C54. ~~ in Co+_mty Co+_irt at Law and
General F+_ind Reven+_~es.

ORDER ~vo. ~a1`9
PUDGET Ai~1EI~DMEIVT I N THE DISTRICT CLERt'.
On this the 9th day of J~_~ne, cQ~~,:, ~_tpon motion made by
Commissioner Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner Paldwin, the
Co~_rr~t unanimously appr^oved by a vote of 4-Ql-~, to transfer
~E,19.~~ from Line Item No. 1~-~+5~-~~1~ Office S~_rpplies to Line
Item No. 1~-45~-407 I~iaintenance Contracts in the District
Clerk's Office.
ORDER NO. 2813Q~
ACCEPT MINUTES AND WAIVE READING
On this the 9tt~ day of J~_~ne, E~Q~S ~_~pon motion made by
Commissioner, Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner Lets, the
Co~_~rt unanimously appr^oved by a vote of 4-~-0, to waive the
reading and approve the following Min~_~tes: Reg~_~lar
Commissioner's Co~_~r•~L- Meeting an May 1c, ~:~~s, Special
Commissioners" Co~_~rt Meeting on R1ay 1G, c:tZ-+Z~~,, Workshop Meeting
on Ma((y77~~yy7}~~19, c='~Qt,~, Special Commissioners' Co~_~rt Meeting on May
G7, it YJ ~L~J.

ORDER NO. c81Ci
AP'P'ROVAL DF MONTHLY REP'DRTS
On this the 9th day of J~_~ne, ~~~C; ~_ipon motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Gammissioner-~ Williams, the
Co~_tr,t ~.~nanimously apps-oved by a vote of 4-D-Q+, to accept tl-~e
following reports and di~-~ect that they be riled with the
C o ~_~ m y C I e r k far f ~_i't ~_~ r e a ~_t d i t
Jannett Pieper, Ca~_irtty C1er-~k
May Report - General
May Report - Tr~_tst
W. R. Heirhal~er,, Sheriff
May Repast - Civil
Vance Elliott, J. P'. #1
May Report
Wi 11 iam Ragsdale, J. P'. #4
May Repast