,.-~ ~: 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KERR ~:OUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT Special Session Monday, October 27, 2003 9:00 a.m. Commissioners' Courtroom Kerr County Courthouse Kerrvi]_le, Texas PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTI'.K" BALDGJIN, Commissioner Pct . 1 WILLIAM "BCLL" WILLIF'~MS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LLTZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 DAVE NICHOT,SON, Commissioner- Pct. 4 :~ `~'~ 2 1 _...__ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,r.... 25 I_N D E X October 27, 2003 PAGE --- Visitors' Inpli~ ....................................... 3 --- Commissioners' Comments .............................. 5 1.1 Review and approve 2003-2004 Kerr County Market ~.~j'~ Days usage license, authorize County Judge to sign... 7 1.2 Special Holiday Market Day for December 20, 2003.... 16 1.3 Consider sending notice of termination of contract for inmate telephone system ......................... 16 1.4 Contract for inmate telephone system....... -- 1.5 Scheduling and policy for Christmas Lighting........ 18 1.9 PUBLIC HEARING - R.evisior: of plat, Lot 1, Village West Industrial Park, Pct #4 . ............. 51 1.10 Final revision of above plat..~.~ ~ ~~~...... 52 1.6 Ado travel J:~ucher Form to clarif a oli ~~ 1,j 54 1.7 Renewal of telf~phone coast.ract for Road and Brii~c~~.J~ 55 1.8 Amend Court Order No. 28347 to change Lot 27,E ~3~-~ R.iverpark Estates to Lot 37, Riverpark Estates...... 58 1.11 Discuss admini.atr.ation of= Kerr County Floodp~.ai~ program, establish appropriate procedures:~.+~~.. ~'.. 59 1 . 12 Status of Envi ~_onmenta7_ Health Department near „~f; re space, possibl~> Location of temporary space ~ 19,148 1.13 Transition scY~~~dule for transfer of OSSF Program,~~7j;~'"'~ ~-~~-, from UGRA to filv.ironmental Health Departme``nt...... 82,154 1 . 14 Approve fee schedule for OSSF Program.. ~.~1.=~.~ ~~ .... 94 1.15 Discuss process for hiring Environmental Health Department Personnel ..........•~ ~`~r-~~.~. 7............ 97, 155 1.16 Approve policy concerning authority of the Manager/ Field Representative of Kerr County Environmental Health Department, redress of grievance process, and organizati~,nal relationship of Manager & staff with Commissioners Court ......................... 102,157 1.17 Approve order adopting Kerr County rules for OSSF, authorize Coun'_y Judge to submit proposed r~le tom T.C.E.Q. for aF>pr_<~va1 & set public hearing:?. ~~~.?`~ 112 1.18 Discuss County appointmera~ts t~ Library Advisory Board ................~.~:~~~ 1..................... 118 i.19 Approve Merit Pay Policy to guide administration of the County': merit pay program .................. 125 1.20 Authorize Amer.~_r_an Legion Post 208 to utilize courthouse gr:>unds/.~ c' Mies for annual Veterans Day ceremony....-~.~%4~ ............................ 141 1.21 Approval of new lease with Mooney Airplane Company --- 1 . 22 Vote on behalf of Kerr County for Board of ~~~ ~~1 Directors of KE~rr Central Appraisal District....... 146 1.23 Approve contra~.ts between Kerr County and VFD's, authorize Coun~-~ udge to s n.;.~ `~1'~'rY,~1 ........... 147 4.1 Pay bills..:. ~'"i'~~ /..~~.~.~.~..~:~.-~.~ ~............ 160 --- Adjourned .......................................... 178 3 1 2 3 4 J 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,~-- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 On Monday, October 27, 2003, at 9 a.m., a special meeting of the Kerr County C~~mmissioners Court was held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 1= R O C E E D I N G S JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning. I'd like to call to order and wE:~Lr_ome you to the special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this date, Monday, October the 27th, 9 a.m. local time, meeting having been posted for this time. Commissioner 1? COMMI:35IONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: I believe it's -- COMMI:~SIONER BALDWIN: Is it my turn? JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, it is. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If y'all would rise and join me in a wor:~ of` prayer, please? (Prayf~r and pledge of allegiance.) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. At this time, if there is any member of the public who wishes to be heard to ac-dress the Court on any matter that is not listed on tYie agenda, you're privileged to come forward at this time. If ycu are here to be heard on any items which are on the agenda, we would ask that you fill out a public participation form. I have several of them up here already. to-~~-no 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We ask that you do this so that we can hopefully not miss you when that item c~~mes up, and -- and secondly, so that we can try and see wherf~ our time frame is. So, if you have -- wish to be heard on ~iny matter that is on the agenda, please fill out one ~f these participation forms there at the back of the room. But, with respect to items not listed on the agenda, any member of t_he public that wishes to come forward at this time, please feel privileged to do so. MR. MURPHY: I'm Jim Murphy. I live at 203 Riverhill Boulevard i_n Kerrville. I was just talking briefly to the Sher:ir"f. Yesterday, I stopped at Neu-Mart out at -- on 16, and it's in the -- I think it's in the county at the New-Mart, the first one out there. Anyhow, they have three of t:llose eight-liners in there, and kids were in there playin~~. I just thought maybe you might want to know that. JUDGE T:ICILE:Y: Thank you, sir. SHERIFF HIERHOL7ER: One comment I'll make on that -- we'll check into that, but the way that law is written, if they're ~IOt exchanged for money or they just give prizes and that, teat don't have a monetary value, there's not anything illegal with them going, last A.G.'s opinion. MR. M~?RPHY: There's a sign there that says 18 years and under n~~t allowed to play. to-~~-oo J 1 ..-_ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll definitely check that and see. JUDGE TINLEY: Is there anyone else who wishes to be heard on a matter that is not on the agenda? Seeing no one else 1~~ rise, we'll go to Commissioners' comments. Commissic>ner Baldwin? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, I have no comments today, at t_.his time, this moment. JUDGE TINLEY: At this moment? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But please leave it open. JUDGE TINL.~EY: All right. Commissioner Williams? COMMI;~SIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's good to be back. My wife and I g~.>t: to drive through a portion of America, about 4,000 miles worth, and that's a long time to be driving, or behind -- be behind the wheel of an automobile. In reading the minutes after I got back, I noticed where you gentlemen have been extraordinarily busy in my absence. I commend you for all that action; hope you didn't get too tired carrying all those bricks. But it's good to be back. Friday night, I had a chance to do a little reality check; in terms of our daily life. And sometimes we forget +~hat. life is all about when we get on the fast track and t.,zke care of- our business and our ,n-_--on 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 obligations, but Lew and I went over to Center Point for Homecoming, and it rf~ali.y is super to participate and see small town at its best rallyi_nq around its school and its football team and its homecoming. That's really refreshing. It gives ycu the opportunity to get your feet back on the ground and know where you are and what you're doing and who you're doing it for. What's it, Judge. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could I ask you a question? What was i.he score? COMMI:~SIC~NER WILLIAMS: The score at halftime was 69 to nothing. ['he score i_n the first seven seconds -- 14 seconds of the game was 14 tc nothing. And Coach Kaiser took -- took pity o:: the poor undermanned Leakey team and put his -- the rest ~f his team in -- or scrubs in; second, third, fourth, and fifth teamers or whatever he had, and they only managed to scare two more times for a total of 83. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the way you treat your neighbors'? 83 to nothing? (Laughter.) COMM? :~S IONE:R. WILLIAMS: Well, he had pity on them second half. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. Commissioner Letz? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Since we're talking about football, commendations ai.so go to Comfort; I think the score was `70-something t.o nothing. And Kerrville's was -- io-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 48 to nothing? 48 1_~~ not.hinq. So, anyway, the area teams, at least from here to the east, did very well. I can`t -- I'm not sure what Ingram did; I haven't seen the papers. No other comments. JUDG'r_', T IfJLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? COMMI:3SIONER NICHOLSON: I attended the Young Life Banquet and Funczrai.ser last might at Camp La Junta, and I hope they raised a lot of money, but the point is that it's very refreshing to see that we have so many good teenagers, and so many teenagers that have good parents. So, I'm -- I'm encouraged about our youth. JUDGE; TINLEY: Is that all? Thank you, sir. We'll move right int~~ the agenda. The first item on the agenda is to review :end approve the 2003-`04 Kerr County Market Days and Kerr County Farmer's Market usage license agreement, and authc%r_ize the Judge to sign the same. Ms. Anderson. MS. ANDERSON: Judge, Commissioners, good morning. Thank you again fer giving me a chance to come before you this morning, take a few minutes of your time. I believe you have the information that I handed out. I'll try nct to repeat toc~ many of those points, but I would like to highlight a few i~,ems and then respond to any questions that you might have. I'1.1. start with a thank you. We thank Kerr County for thei_~~ continuing support. We thank each of ~o-" -no 8 1 2 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,~-- 25 you who stop by to give us your. advice and counsel; we value that tremendously. ,special thanks to your grounds people; they have done an absolutely terrific job. Every time we come here for the market, the grounds are just perfect. Thank you for the ne~~a par•kinc; lot. We like it a whole lot; we're mighty proud of it. And the biggest thank you of all is to our community. People of this area continue to support the market, I~ot=h as vendors and customers, and it's just a tremendous e.~.i~er_=ience to be there, to meet folks, get to visit with them, ~~nd just see a whole cross-section of our community that c~~mes out there on Market Day Saturdays, and I consider it a tremendous privilege to be there and have a part of it. A few highlights from this past year. One of the things that we tried, of course, was the new farmer's market. It was not exactly a booming success, but we did take a go at it, and we're committed to come back next year, with your permission, grid make another try at it, and hope for a better growing season and more produce, as well as more customers. Last year we ran the market for about $3,000, came up $6 ahead at the end of the year. We were very pleased with th~~t, since it was totally out of donations. Our budgf~t for this year is approximately $6,000, and the -- t-.he increase there has gone entirely for publicity, for some .rental canopies to assist people who to-~~-oo 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 just come occasionally and don't want to go out and spend money to buy a canopy, and for printing supplies to do our publicity. We now buy ads from all of our local newspapers, including our new WEr,t Kerr Current. We're in our visitors' guides. We're also Listed on t:he Texas Highways magazine web site as a place 'so go and something to do in south Texas in the Hill Country, and we're very proud of that. A big event that we'll have to close out this year -- last year w~: did a Christmas basket drawing to make up the last little bit of money to pay off all the bills at the end of the year. That's where we got the $6 that we had left over. This yea r_ we'r.e going to do the Christmas basket drawing made up entirely of donations from our vendors in the market. They gi~:Te us some of their product; we put them in the baskets. We Let: people make donations in return for an opportunity to wi.n or.e of those baskets, and all proceeds this year will go to Dietert Senior Center. They have been most gracious to us and invited our vendors to use their parking let. They've been a constant assistance to us, and so we'd like to 'say ,~ "t.hank you" to them, and so the proceeds this year of the Christmas basket give-away will all go to Dietert Senior Center. Next year -- or this year's request is a ~:rr_i.stmas market -- special market off the regular cycle. ''h_is has been requested by our vendors. There's kind of a b=ig gap between our last scheduled market to-~~-~o i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,.-. 25 10 on December ~3th and Christmas Day, so several of our vendors have approached us and asked if it would be possible to add one extra market. This would be on December 20th. It would be a separate rrtarket -- a special market, so we`re here to ask for your permission to go forward with the planning for that. And the next item, I believe, is to ask for permission to contin~ze Kerr Ccunty Market Days for 2004. A few minor changes fc: r nE;~xt year. Based on what we've learned to-date, we would not have any markets in August next year. It's hot, and it's real hot out on the parking lot. It's hot for cur vendors; it's hot for our customers. Attendance was down, vendor participation was down a little bit, so we're suggesting that next year there not be a market in August. b~1~.'re also suggesting that we continue the market -- the farmer's mar};et on the first, third, and fifth Saturdays as l~~ng as there's produce available to bring to market, and that, the ]_ast market of 2004 also be a special Christmas m~rket_. I believe that one next year would fall on DecembE>r 18th. And that is all written into the request for appr~~val for 2004. As I said T'd try to be brief, one final point I do want to highlight. It's something that has been part of our intent from the very beginning, and something that we're going to continue to work toward harder than to-~,-~~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ~9 1 20 21 22 2 :3 24 25 11 ever, with your appr-~vai, for the coming year, and that is that we are the marketplace for quality goods in the Hill Country when it comers to arts and crafts, originally-crafted products. We do anticipate that next year's market will begin to introduce a bit of a jury process for who is admitted to the markF,t. We have many, many applications. We think it's time to begin to look at that type process and to, through that process, control the types of items that come into the market so that we don't have all furniture or all jewelry or all f~~bric crafts; that we use that as a means to increase both the quality and the variety of items that we bring to our customers. We enjoy the market tremendously. It is; a great oI>portunity to be a part of this community. We I1ope that our efforts meet with your approval, and that wE~ can continue to bring a quality event here to our home in 1r at. one of the R.V. parks, so they buy meals, they buy ~~as, they buy supplies. They book a room at the Holiday Cnn Fxpr.ess. So we feel like that's a -- kind of a ripp]f' that comes from the particular markets. Ms. Anderson? JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for COMMI:~SIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I have a 12 motion. ,.... 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. Let's hear it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve the 2003-2004 Kerr C~~unt:y Market Days and Kerr County Farmer's Market usa,~~, license -- which I appreciate, by the way, having an agrec.~:nent with us -- and authorize County Judge to sign the same, as well as the 2003 and 2004 Christmas Market Day. Was there -- that was the only thing that I remember seeing in there. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGF?. I'.INLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve the agenda i_r_em. Any further questions or discussion? COMM7:~SIC>NER NICHOLSON: Let me just say that io-~%-no 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ^. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 I appreciate Mrs. -- Ms. Anderson's remarks about the condition of the -- ~~f t_he courthouse square. And, in fact, I was thinking about this. You very seldom get comments about those sort of things unless there's something wronq, and the other day I was thinking about what a good job Mr. Holekamp and his people do about keeping the inside of the courthouse clean an~:~ neat. This is a pretty impressive performance on their part, and I appreciate it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. COMMI:~SIONER Tn]ILLIAMS: I think there's -- it's appropriate to khan}; Ms. Anderson also fcr the way that their group cleans uf~ behi_nd the Market Days; I've noticed it, and I'm sure othE~r Commissioners have noticed it, and we do appreciate that. MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: By way of explanation, the -- the grounds crew that -- that comes down generally every Thursday morning ear.Ly and starts to ready the grounds for the coming Market Da~~s weekend is a group that I call "Bobby and his merry men." That's Deputy Bobby Johnson and some inmates from -- from the jai7_ facility, and they do a very, very good, bang-up job. That's who's responsible for it on the outside. Of cou.~se, Ms. Anderson and her bunch leave nothing behind. Everything they bring with them, they take, and if they see an.y loose trash, they go ahead and clean in-~~-n, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,r.. 25 16 that up too, and we appreciat:e that. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right h~~nd. (The :noti.on carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE; TINLEY: ~'~11 opposed, same sign. (No rf~sponse. ) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you very much, Ms. Anderson. MS. ANDERSON: Thank you. Appreciate it. JUDGE TINLEY: The next item is -- is included; that's' thE~ con:>.i.derat:ion and discussion of the special holiday mark;~t f-or the third Saturday of December. That's included in the contract, so we need not consider that further. Next ~~tem, consider and discuss sending notice of terminatic>u of a cont=ract for inmate telephone system to Advanced T~>1-Com Systems Corporation, doing business as Kerrville Telephone Business Systems. The Sheriff, I believe, is here on that item. SHERIFF HIERHOLIER: At this time, both of these -- I believe they're the next two items on there. I don't want any action tal~:en right now. The phone company has decided they'd like to have a meeting with us at 3 o'clock this afternoon, but they're -- and because of Paragraph 15 in the ~,ur_z_ent contract, a lot of this may need to be discussed in Executive session and not -- not in open 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,.... 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 court, but there are some, what I consider, very serious problems and things not working correctly as they should, and a lot of that on our current contract. So, I will be bringing it back next time for determination and see what we can do. COMMI3~IONER LETZ: A comment on -- you know, it battles me as to why a contract that is so lucrative to vendors is so difficult for vendors to do. And not just Kerrville Business T«~1e~>hone. Our -- a prior company we had a contract with, we glad problems with them. I mean, these people are making an absolute fortune off these contracts and the rates they charge, and they can't do it. It just amazes me. JUDGE TINLEY: The only other comment that I would make on this and tie other agenda item was, there appears to be no mutuality of remedies to both sides. There appears to be remedi«~s for one -- one party of the contract, but not similar or t_he same remedies to another party to the contract, and that ~iLways disturbs me when I don't see mutuality. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree totally. JUDGE TINLEY: But the Sheriff makes a point. rJnder the one paragraph of the existing agreement, we have an obligation to maintain confidentiality under certain circumstances, and ['m not sure we're outside those _u-_~-oo 18 1 2 3 4 s J 6 7 8 9 1C 11 ~2 1 13 14 15 16 ,~ 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,~ 25 circumstances just yet. So, it's my understanding you're asking that this, as wel.i as the next item, be passed? SHERLI~F HIERHOL7,ER; Just be passed at this time till the next c~;urt. meeting. JUDGE TINLEY: Very good. We'll pass on Item 3, and Item 4 which ~.aas on the agenda will also be passed. Next item on the agenda is the consideration and discussion of scheduling and policy for the Christmas lighting. Commissioner Baldwin. COMMI;.~S.LONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. I had received several phone calls -- complaining phone calls about the Christmas decorations going up too early can the courthouse lawn, and I think a couple other Commis~;ion~~rs have received some as well. And when -- I take that serious. When -- when I receive complaints and they Look to me as the one in charge -- and, of course, the buck does stop here -- then I take that very serious, and I feel like that something needs -- at least needs to be addressE=~~~ anc{ something needs to be done about it. And, by putting thi:> on the agenda for discussion and possible adoption of some thoughts, I'm certainly not taking an adversarial position against Christmas or Christmas lights or those that ptizt them up. I just simply think that we need to have some kind of p1.an in place. It's just good business to do it th~~t way. 1 wish we could get to a point to-~~-oo 19 L .- 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-- 25 like we just discussE~d with the folks that just left here, the Market Days people; you know, there's a five-page agreement that we have adopted. with them. And we may get to that point with the Christmas 1_ights; I don't know. Depends on how far we get in this conversation. But, in your -- in your packet, I have included four thoug'~~1s that, in my opinion, needs to be adopted and moved fc.~rward on, and certainly open for discussion. One of -- the first one is Christmas lights need to be put up no sooner than two weeks before Thanksgiving, and that's for several reasons. I think Thanksgiving or shortly after Thanksgiving is when we have the Christmas tree _light.ing. ~~udge Ab1es and his beautiful wife sing out in fron•~. of- the courthouse, and Santa Claus appears and all. An~~ two weeks prior to that, seems to me that is ample time to put up Christmas decorations. And, you know, seems likE~ to me we're kind of taking our focus away from Thanksgiving now by doing the Christmas lights. That's just my opini~~n. So, that's one, and so that's a put-up date. And number two would be the tear-down date -- that would be number three on your list. Require lights and decorations to be down no later than the second weekend in January. I don't tr~,.ink that we've ever had that problem, but it would be kind of_ ni.ce to have it in writing that we all agree to that. io-~~-oo 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 a 1c 11 12 ,~ 13 14 15 16 l~ 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-- 25 The third item ~s authorize the Maintenance Supervisor to inspec~, and. require removal of any inoperable, malfunctioning, or unsafe decorations. In other words, give permission to Mr. Holekamp from this Court to go out and inspect all the decorations and to make sure that they're operable and they're safe. If they're unsafe, he has the authority then to deal with the issue as he sees fit. Number four is for the decorating people to get authorization from file Maintenance Department supervisor before beginning any new construction, and what triggered that thought are the new electrical lines, the ditch-digging and the electrical 7~nes that were buried out there two weeks ago or so. Now, I understand that that has been in the plan for a couple of years- Seems like year before last, the committee same in and -- and gave us a plan of what they were going to do, and that was probably in there, but that was year before last. I just see it as -- even though it was in the plan, when. you -- whf~n you start a project like that, particularly in digging ditches around this old courthouse, where there is lines and pipes and things everywhere on the square, it would ju~1 bF_~ wise f-or those men to go to our -- our Maintenance Supervisor and say, "Hey, Glenn, we're going to dig these ditches from here to here," just to be on the safe side of -- and ~n case Glenn knows that there's 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ~5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 21 something else there that you need to be careful about or et cetera, so forth. So, I just think it would be wise for them to go to the Mtii_ntE-~nance Supervisor and say, "This is what we're going to ~~o." Those are the four items that I wanted to present to the Court today, and we can adopt them and go on or we can ~~iscuss them, change them, add to, take away, whatever you w~znr_ to do. And if there's no comments, %'m going to make a motion that we adopt this. COMMI:>SIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I have comments, and there are several people -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're joking. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are several people -- people in the ~~udience, I'm certain, have comments also. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. COMMI,:,S:CONER WILLIAMS: I think the volunteer group has worked ver~/ dil.igent~_y and hard since the inception to try and improve this whole process and to add to the Christmas sp_Lf~ndor of -- seasonal splendor of the courthouse and its grounds. I was a tad surprised, as probably a lot of people were, to see Santa Claus or the giant snowman waving at nee in the middle of October, and that probably caught a lot of other people's attention. CONIM~:SS_IOTIFR BALDWIN: Where'd you see that, 25 Bill? ~o-~--oo 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 i5 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMI:~SIONER WILLIAMS: He' s out there. He' s waving at me. He wa~~es at you, too, when you come in. He` s right out there. COMMI:~SIONER BALDWIN: I see. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Big snowman; he hasn't melted yet. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Haven't seen him. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anyhow, with regard to your four points, I understand your concern, and I think there's some things that. probably need to be addressed, and perhaps can be talkc>:l o~.lt and help in the future planning. Putting up the Christmas lights no sooner than two weeks before Thanksgiving, in my view, is a tad unrealistic. It takes at least that :Long just to do the courthouse annex and the courthouse in terms of stringing the verticals. That's the most difficult part, and it takes at least that much time, depending on }~~~w rn~_ic;h community service and other volunteer help is available. And two weeks before Thanksgiving leaves no margin for inclement weather delays. None whatsoever. If yo~~t start two weeks before Thanksgiving and you've got a col.-~ fr_ant come through here, and rain, and you can't get up or ~~ou can't do the work, and therefore you're not going to finish on time. I think it's probably realistic that, in the schedule of putting ~~hinc[s up, that the courthouse verticals is ~ -., ,, 23 1 2 3 4 5 8 9 10 11 12 13 i4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 r 25 and annex -- courthouse and annex verticals go up first, and that could start as ~~ar_l.y as whatever, because it doesn't disturb anything or anybody. And the folks are up there working and they're on the ground, and the grounds themselves are not f~ncumbered by Santa Claus, reindeer, snowmen and other t}~ i_ng:~ . So, that might be a consideration that the Christmas tree folks could take a look at it. But there is a whole lot; of manpower that goes into this, not only on the building and the annex, but in wrapping the trees and decorating the lampposts and so forth, and I think two weeks prior to Tllanksaivinc~ is not a realistic approach. Now, also, we don't - we turn these things on now before Thanksgiving. And the reason we do that is because there is now a Christmas ligi~t parade -- a darkness parade where all the floats are light.r,d, and that is scheduled earlier, because to do so later is in conflict with the big parade in Comfort, and a iat of these folks go -- have their floats and so forth in both places. They can`t compete with the Comfort one, so they moved it up. So, we're actually doing it -- I think last year it was turned on before -- a week before Thanksgiving i~~eekend, and so forth and so on, and the bank schedules its Christmas Santa Claus arrival, all that stuff, at the same time. In terms of authorizing the Maintenance supervisor to inspe~:+. and remove -- and require removal of 10-'~-7~7 24 1 2 3 4 6 -, 8 9 10 11 1 L 13 14 15 16 17 ,8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 any inoperable or malfunctioning items, I think that's realistic. That's h,~ppened in the past. We had a situation -- I think the Christmas lighting folks had a situation once in which there was a short in a -- in one of the decorations, and it was repaired and taken care of. And certainly they, as w~,l.l as we, don't want anybody to be injured because of the Christmas decorations, so they take extraordinary care in makinq certain that happens. I think they try very diligFntly to get_ the lights down as immediately after Ja~iuary 1st as possible. I'm not certain whether we've had thE~m down by the second weekend or not, but there are others in the audience that can respond to that. And, in terms of authorization from the Maintenance Department supervisor before beginning any new construction, I think that`s realistic; it should happen. If it hasn't happened or didn't l;~lppE~n, i_f it wasn't an oversight, it should be -- it should be addressed. JUDGE T=INLEY: That's all you have? COMMI:3SIUNER LETZ: Couple comments. I really agree with bc~1:h Commissioner Baldwin and Commissioner Williams on this, for the large part. I think that it would -- the best thing is probably to get a written agreement similar to the license agreement we have for the fair, because that way it's clear to everyone. I think that the -- and I was one of the Commissioners that received two 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 ,.-~ 13 i4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-. 25 amazingly, you know, host.i_le calls, I'll have to say, about the decorations beir~„x up. But. what I think -- you know, I didn't really go int~~ detail as to what they objected to, but I think it was t.lle large -- the snowman and the things that -- you know, th,~t looked Christmassy. I mean, you know, it's all Christmassy, but the -- the yard pieces. And that's, I think, the -- you knave, I would -- I think two weeks prior to Thanksgiving is a good time for those type pieces, but I also have no problem with the -- the lights that come down off ti7e k_~ui_1di_nd, things that are in the trees and other things being done in -- you know, based on a schedule to get it rune in a timely manner. I don't know how long it takes, so I think that's why we need ~:u~ agreement so we can get feedback from the lighting group to tell us what they need. But we need a schedule as to what ~~oes up when, because I think there is some -- or a number ~~f people in the community that object to having it look as Christmassy as it does this early in the year. So, I think there's a lot of things that can be dcne, maybe rearran<:~~ng ;>ome schedules and getting it, I guess, clarified. I think the tether items about construction and Maintenance Supervisor's authority, I think those go without say~~ng, i_n my mind, but they should be probably in agreemez~:~.. And I think the other benefit to having an agreement ~s, as members of the Court change and zo-~~-oo 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 things change, you know, the whole process -- everyone's brought along at the same time so that everyone is aware of what's going on and happy with it. Because y'all do a tremendous amount of work in the community. I totally support what y'all, as a group, do, but I think it's -- the more coordination we can have, the better it is. So, I think we need an agreement, but I think that -- you know, I share some of Commissioner Williams' sentiments about time, and some of Commissioner Baldwin's. JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson, do you have any thoughts or observations? COMML:~SIONF,R NICHOLSON: I don't think I can add any more to the discussion. JUDGE TINLEY: I might make one observation. We heard just a moment ago about some very favorable comments concerning the upkeep of the grounds. At this stage of the year, grass is still growing, grounds are looking nice, and it creates a problem in trying to keep the grounds up. Some of the yard items, I believe that you had mentioned, are out there. It makes it more difficult for those people doing the grounds work to do that early on. Now, after, of cours<~, the first freeze, why, that tends to change things a litt:~e bit, but that's certainly another consideration that wE~ need to keep in mind. Might cause some damage to those items, doing that work. I don't know 1~-~~-oa 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 1 E 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about electrical cords, things of that nature, some other considerations, but we need to kind of factor that in the equation also. rOMMI~SIONER LETZ: One item that I did forget to mention -- and I've talked to Glenn about it, and I really don`t know who's responsible to make sure it happens, but several years ago -- and I think, actually, General Schellhase h<~d a lot to do with it, or may have done a lot of it -- we had a plan where everything that's on the courthouse square, everything that -- every tree, every outlet is on that, a thorough plan so we knew where all of the items were. And, with the new ditching that was done with electrical lines, which was needed, we just need to make sure that -- yoi~ know, to footnote where these things are located so that, in the future, when we do something elsewhere somewhere, plant a tree -- 'cause I think there will be probably some trees planted on that outside area -- that we know exactly where things are and we have a pretty good base map, or we had one a year or so ago. We did it as part of the overall courthouse renovation. We just need to make sure that map gets updated. I don't know -- that's probably, really, more a function of our Maintenance Department, but it needs to be coordinated; you know, ditching and things. I think any kind of permanent improvement needs to be on that plan. And I mentioned that ,_0-2--00 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to Glenn and he's aw~~re of that, but we just need to figure out how to make -- that needs to happen whenever we do anything. JUDGE TINLEY: We also had some members of the public that wanted to address the Court concerning these matters. Mr. Ray Lehman. MR. LEHMAN: Honorable Judge, Commissioners, thank you for this opportunity to address the courthouse lighting. Commissioner Williams, thank you for your intelligent reply to Commissioner Baldwin. Now, evidently, you people don't kno~,a much about the lighting program, listening to you -- to Commissioner Letz and Baldwin. You're aware that we have the lines underground? We buried them. All right, I'll get to that. But this program started on November 24th, 1994. Couple guys, Jim Murphy, myself. No money, no volunteers, no program. We were going to light the courthouse lawn. Word got out, and the Women's Division of the Chamber of Commerce came up with $1,000. By the end of that year, with no committee, we had raised 543,246. There's a Lot of people that want this program. And we had support from the City, City Hall; they bought lights from us. City Hall Auditorium, Library, Harper came over and bought lighr_s from us. And get this; the City of Fredericksburg called us, a city official, "We need your help." The people io-~~-ou 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in Fredericksburg were calling their officials, saying, "Why can't we do what Kerrville has done?" How about that? "Could you sell us some lights so we can do a tree, and then maybe come over and help us get ours started?" Which we did. We bought a 101= -- a couple hundred lights, gave them to Fredericksburg. They wanted to pay us. We11, we can't accept that. You know why, don't you? I'm sure you people do. Because we had <~ warehouse fire here one time, and our lights burned up. You remember that? We didn't ask for help, but Fredericksburg -- our friends in Fredericksburg came over and gave us lights. Now, can we take money from them? No. We gave them the lights. Then they wanted help. We made a trip and met with the Fredericksburg Parks Department, and told them about our ditching. They liked that. That's been d~~ne a long time ago, not recent, and now our wires are now buried from pole to pole, tree to tree underground. You may see some extension cords around the displays, but they are protected; we have no wires running across the ground. When we started, I went to Johnson City; they helped us. Went to Round Rock and over to Taylor, Texas. Now, Taylor had one of the most attractive displays, but you could not walk aroun~~ the courthouse because they had extension cords all aver the place. They had the walks marked off. You don`t see that in Kerrville. So, Kerrville i^-~~-oc 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2i 22 23 24 25 30 is probably the best around here, and they are copying us and getting our help. But we did help Fredericksburg. When we got started, we turned on the lights and every tree was covered with lights. We'll never do that again, 'cause we had trucks all over that lawn and the -- and the ditches that we dug, we really tore up the place. We knew we wouldn't have to do it again, and the Commissioners Court assured us we'd never do it again. We made a mess out of that thing. And when this first load of lights came in, we didn't have volunteers. There were two of us. (OutsLde noise.) COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Those are the lights going up, right, Ray? MR. LEHMAN: Appreciate that. They're giving us a head start. MR. SCHELLHASE: Actually, they're coming down. They ought to be up. MR. LI~HMAN: But we need volunteers. The truckload of the lig}-~ts came in, 340 cases, 700,000 lights. Who's going to unload this truck? Buster -- Bud Barber and myself, four of us got our wives, and we got our wives to unload that 18-wheeler over here anc~ then carry them into Red Cross. This is the background of the lighting committee. This has all been done, and we had volunteers. Now, we still got a lot of volunteers. The City is working 10-~~-00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 24 ,•.~ 25 31 with us. And you mentioned two weeks. This thing could be done in two days, providing the weather's good, providing we have volunteers. We're not guaranteed either. You said October. We've stari_ed in September. I have the work schedule. No one complained then. I'm surprised you would bring to the Commissioners Court a couple phone calls. Do they complain about the churches? Walmart? Schreiner's? Of course they don't. But they complain to us. Okay, the report came in; you presented it to us. I resent those phone calls. But I've never had a complaint from anyone who has helped us hang lights or donated money. So, we had the volunteers. Not enough. We average 30 per weekend, and roughly a six-hour day; we get here at 7 : OC . Some ~~ornE~ 8 : 00 tc 5:00, but say six hours a day, 130, 180. That's a total of 740, 750 hours -- man hours, 700 man hours. Do that in two days? You can't do it. We need October. I was out here last Saturday; you cut us off, but the weekend before that we were on the lawn hanging lights. A car drove by, a lady with some kids; they were so excited. "GJe heard you were down here putting up the lights." The pe~~ple in this town like to see it and bringing their kids around to look. We aren't even hooked up yet; they're coming to look at them. So, you see, this is accepted by the city, by the people. We need this. And we need more volunteers and we need your help. to-~~-oo 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 As fo:r_ the merchants, the Court should be commended for Market Days. Good job. There's a little friction there, maybe, 'cause we have to work around them. But -- and I don't think we'll lose any. But, supposing someone did get upset with us out there working. Suppose they left. What's a couple hundred dollars lost revenue when you compare it to our $18 million budget? So, think about these things. We need help, not criticism. With that, I'll turn it o~~er to our chairman and hardest worker, Walter Schellhase. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Lehmann, before you -- you said several things that -- that were adversarial, as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not going to address them. MR. LEHMAN: Please do. COMMI:~SIONER BALDWIN: Just -- the one thing that I want to touch on with you is that -- that the Market Days people are out there and you have to work around them? They have to work around you. They're the ones with the agreement. that up. MR. LEHMAN: Thank you. I'm glad you brought COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. MR. LEHMAN: Working around each other. JUDGE TINLEY: That's exactly right. io-~~-oo 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. LEHMAN: They're making money. We're spending our money t~~ do this. COMM_T:>SIONER BALDWIN: Right. MR. LLHMAN: Can't they bend a little bit? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. I just wanted to address that one issue. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a comment also. You know, I -- I am taken aback by your comments towards me. I have been nothing but supportive of this program since it began, and I believe I have voted every time to support everything y'all have wanted to do. I have authorized expenditure of Count.~/ funds through our Maintenance Department to assist you, and then you come up here and criticize me for not being supportive and not thanking you enough because of your -- you know, because you're volunteering? I don't think -- I'll be quiet right here, because you really touched a nerve, and I can not imagine that you've ccme to this Court and criticized our actions just by trying to make an agreement with your association. I think you need to rethink, you know, what you're saying. And I hope we don't do anything negative, because I think being criticized, to me, is -- you hit some nerves, Ray. MR. L1~HMAN: All right. I'm glad I did, but I meant -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you're glad you i^-%-GO 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 did? And you also s<~y t.hat we shouldn't listen to the citizens of this county that complain? I just disagree with you. I listen to every constituent that I have, and I expect everyone on this Court should do the same thing, and for to you say that we shouldn't is appalling. MR. LEHMAN: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Lehman. MR. LEHMAN: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: We had one other speaker signed up for this a~~enda item. Mr. Jim Murphy. MR. M~JRPHY: That's all right, I'll do it later, because all I wanted to say, if it's okay right now, is that those ladies were the most cooperative that you could find, as far as we're concerned. And that statement that we were uncooperative or couldn't get together -- get along together, that's not true. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nobody said that. MR. MURPHY: I'll speak later. The Market Day ladies is who I'm talking about. JUDGE TINLEY: Well, did you want to -- do you want to speak no;~~? MR. M~~RPHY: I want Walter to speak first, please. JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Schellhase? MR. SCHELLHASE: Walter Schellhase, 529 Water to-~~-oo 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 _~ 8 9 10 11 12 13 •-- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Street, president of the Kerrville Christmas Lighting Corporation. The di:~plays were set up Saturday a week ago, because we had plannE~d on stringing lights in the two main buildings and we werE~ told that we could not enter the buildings because of flooring work being done, which really wouldn't have affected us any whatsoever, but because we were told that, we did not enter the building and chose to start setting up displays. For the eight years that I've been involved in this program, we've always started five Saturdays before Tha~~ksgiving, and it's not changed. We were here five Saturdays ago last year and started setting up, hanging lights o~:~ this building, and setting up displays. It always takes us at least four days to get everything out of the warehouse onto the buildings and set up in the yard, and giving us one day to punch everything out and make sure it's safe and hooked up and working. This year, lights go on the 22nd of November. That's a week before Thanksgiving. That's been the same for the eight years that I've been involved in it. If the Court wants to change that, there's no problem whatsoever. Just give us the guidance and we'.L1 t.ry work within it. Two S~~turdays before Thanksgiving? Forget it. There is no way it can be done. Now, Glenn is pulling lights down off the roof right now, which are stored on the roof because we hang them from the roof. Now, the fact that i_-_ -oo 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2 2 23 24 25 no one from the lighting committee is involved in what Glenn is doing today, all the lights are being brought down off of the roof and will be strung from the ground, I guess, which means all the plugs will be opposite and they won't work; we'll wind up probably having to change them all. As for the scheduling, the 18th was the first work day scheduled, and it was scheduled in April of this year. It is included on our agenda, of which Glenn is a member of, and Commissioner Williams is aware of and receives the agenda. We have a work schedule that is printed in the mailer that we send out to the community that lists all of those work days, and they also .show them, which went to everyone in the community and in west Kerr County. So, everyone sitting on the Commissioners Cc~,zrt received a mailer in their telephone bill listing ail ~f i,hose work days. If those were a problem, it would ha~~e been nice had the lighting committee known about it early enough, ar.d we could have adjusted and changed. As for your phone calls, I've received 11 phone calls of people saying, "Great, the lights are going on. Do you need any help? What day can I be made available to assist?" So, for every one you've received, I'll probably receive more offering to help, because they seen the lights go up. Saturday a week ago, we had three community service people that were assigned to us by the 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ~2 1 13 14 15 16 17 18 i9 20 21 22 23 24 25 court. How did they !chow that we needed people on the 18th of October to start banging lights? Someone must have informed them. So, we had those people volunteering, and we had to make use of them or turn them away. We had people scheduled for the 25th, last Saturday. I believe Jim Murphy came down here and sent them all back home, said we've been denied use of the courthouse grounds for. this day. Because of the information I received, I canceled the work day for the 25th and November the 1st, leaving us the 8th and the 15th. If anybody on this Court or in our committee thinks that we can get those lights up on the 8th and the 15th, they're kidding them:~elves. It won't be done unless we have County help, like is working here today, of which we don't -- weren't aware of. I wasn't aware that anyone was doing any light work today. Our work days are on Saturday, when we have the community service people available. So, right now you're in violation of the four items that Buster listed on the proposed policy, because you're working prior to the two Saturdays before Thanksgiving. Now, we need November the 1st back again. We need to have those volunteers down here. We need to do all the work. Glenn can tell you right now, there's no way to hang these two buildings on two Saturdays, just those two alone. We've never done it in the past. We're not going to do it in the future unless something io-~~-oo 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 r- 25 drastically happens and we have a lot more people. Now, if we have the same people in jail that we had last year and we get those people back, which I don't think we can do, because we don't get a deputy because of the budget, so -- our deputy has been ~,ut, so therefore the jail people are not available. And I think one of them had 24 months and one of them had 18, so we have two educated guys out there that we could have back if we had a deputy. So, to have a policy, we have no problem. If we sign. ar. agreement, we have no policy -- no problem, and we'll do them both, but they have to be realistic and you have to understand what's involved. Now, for the underground lighting, we presented to this Court in April last year a proposal. to do underground lighting to replace all the light stub-ups that we have throughout the courtyard -- grounds on the court, and put recessed boxes in the ground so all the wiring would be underground and we would have no outlets sticking up out of the ground. The Court approved that plan, and you have copies of it, because we made small copies and put it in your package. That first run that's being made out there is part of that plan. We've been discussing it since April, and it's been discussed at every meeting we've had, which Glenn is invited to -- or is a member of the group. And if there's a problem with it, it should have been surfaced and someone should have told us io-~~-co 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about it. Thank you. COMMISSIONER LETZ: General, I have a question. I mean, I'm not critical of the plan -- I mean, of the lighting. I just think we need to get it on our drawing, the electrical stuff. MR. SCHELLHASE: It's on the drawing, yes. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean make sure that Glenn has it in our permanent drawing of everything. I know it's on the drawing ~~'all subm;_tted. And I have no quarrel at all with anything you said. I think I totally agree. And -- you know, but at this -- you know, I think that we need to have a schedule and an agreement, is all I've ever said. I don't think we ought to have the yard pieces up at the very beginning; I think put them up at the end. If it's r.ot possible to do it that way, ycu know, I'm willing to listen to that. And I'm just -- you know, I just don't like being criticized when we have County personnel helping you do a project. MR. SCHELLHASE: Only reason we have County personnel helping right now is because this issue has been put behind schedule. COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County helps you every year. MR. SCHELLHASE: They've never done this -- never done what they're doing right now. We do it on 1„-~~-oo 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Saturdays with community service. COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County assists with this program. MR. S~:i-IELLHASE: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you don't think we do, maybe I'm confused, but I believe the Maintenance Department -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, the County does assist, Commissioner, and there are occasions when County personnel are used on Saturdays, and the corporation compensates those themselves at time-and-a-half for their efforts. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it's the same type of arrangement we have with Market Days. Our County Maintenance staff helps and assists, and we authorize them to. And, you know, I'm -- MR. SCHELLHASE: But they've never worked during the week. This has never been done before, what you're doing right now, of which the lighting committee has no knowledge of what's going on whatsoever. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nor do I. I didn't schedule it. I think -- I'm really -- I don't understand what the controversy is. A1.1 we want -- all Commissioner 10-_~-00 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Baldwin presented was a schedule and an agreement, and you agreed with that. MR. SCHELLHASE: I say I have no problem with it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So let's move forward. JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Murphy? MR. MURPHY: I think the Sheriff wanted to say something. SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Go ahead. JUDGE TINLEY: You signed up to speak, Mr. Murphy. You're privileged to speak at this time. MR. MiJRPHY: Jim Murphy, 203 Riverhill Boulevard, Kerrville. It's not really a controversy. This is not a controversy at all. You may think it's a controversy. COMMISSIONER LETZ: It wasn't until I was accused of doing stuff by Ray Lehman. MR. MURPHY: That's between you and Ray Lehman; that's not bE~tween the committee and you, or any of these Commissioners here. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good to hear. MR. MURPHY: First thing is, to answer that last discussion you had there, we paid County employees in the past to come out here on Saturday. I don't know how io-~;-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 lg 19 20 21 22 23 24 ..-, 25 42 many or how much, but Glenn would know that more so than I do. But I know how the -- all I want to say is this, very shortly. Ray and I have been in this for eight years. We've both been volunteers here around Kerrville for the last 20 years -- 22 years or more. We just don't feel like that -- we don't fee.L like that y'all came -- should have come to us -- or we do feel like y'all should have come to us and told us, discussed this with the committee before you start shutting off Saturdays for us. We need those Saturdays, whether you agree with me or not. We need all of them. We've needed them from the word go, and we've needed them and we'll need them next year if we're still allowed to do this. So, all I'.11 say is, is I appreciate what you've done in the past, anc~ I'd like to see you give us back that next Saturday. Thank you. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- you know, I think the -- I can't speak for Commissioner Baldwin; whenever I try, I usually get myself in trouble, but only time we can discuss things is in court, as I think y'all are aware, so we can't, you know, just -- we have to do it in this forum. We don't have it -- by law, we don't have any other choice. It's not always the best way to discuss any topic, or some topics, but that's why it's on the agenda, is because we can't just meet and huddle and discuss things. MR. MiJRPHY: I believe two of you can meet io-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .-. 25 43 together, and two-on-two and two-on-two. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's against the law. MR. MURPHY: What's against the law? JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff? You have a comment? SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only comment I have, because I'll be honest; my kids grew up the last 10 years or whatever watching these lights, and I think it's one of the best things that the county has, getting the courthouse well-lit. We get lots of comments about it. I know there's a deal this year using inmates, and the only problem I had with using inmates was on the weekend, because then I have to pay overtime for an officer to come down here on the weekend. But I don't mind at all; I think we have inmates out there this morning helping get the lights strung, that -- using inmates during the week and not on holidays, I have no problem using inmates. Otherwise, it has to kind of be community service, 'cause there is a big separation there; they're not inmates that have to have a guard around there. But, personally, November 1st sounds like a good day to start, and if they'll let us help them during the week with inmates, I have no problem, and maybe with five or six inmates, we can get things done a lot quicker for y'all. But I think it's a fabulous program. I don't see any kind of controversy over it. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Sheriff. io-~,-~~ 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have a wrap-up comment, Judge, if you don't mind. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to wrap it up. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm not going to wrap it up; I'll make a comment. I think it -- would it be appropriate if -- if we did find a way to reduce to writing a few topics that -- that memorialized our understanding between the Court and the Christmas Lighting Corporation as to what's expected and what they're going to do? Some understanding of how it's going to take place and so forth. And if I ~~ould be of assistance in helping to develop that, I'll certainly lend myself to that task. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I -- first of all, bringing this to the table has really opened the doors to what needs to be done and what shouldn't be done, even though there's some feathers ruffled, and that's fine. I never meant to address what's going on out there this year. I wouldn't ask anybody to take the -- the decorations that are cut there now, I wouldn't ask them to take them off. But I was speaking toward next year and future years. So, in the meantime, I will get with the County Attorney and we will draw up some kind of agreement. And I think that's basically -- I've heard each one of you say that that's a good idea, and I know it's a good idea from this table. io-~~-oo 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Just happen to know these guys, and we'll put together some kind of agreement for next year and future years. Simple as that. And I think it's been -- I think this discussion's been very, very healthy. And, Ray, Commissioner Letz and I understand what's going on here, okay? MR. MURPHY: May I say one last thing? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought I was going to get to close it oi~t . COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is one other point, one other topic. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to be the last to speak on this thing. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to give you that opportunity. Would you like to restore November 1 as a work day for them? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know anything about it. What's so funny? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that we've ever taken any work days away. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know what you're talking about. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't either. JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Murphy, did you have one last comment? MR. MURPHY: One last thing is, we need those -o-~?-on 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 two weeks in October. No matter what you want to come up with on November the 1st, we need those two things, unless you're going to guarantee us you're going to give us help between November the 1st and the -- whatever the date is that the lights need to be on by. We have to have a preview of the lighting during the week prior to the 22nd. As an example, this year -- usually we do on it a Thursday night. So -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, when we get the agreement together, that's something we need to figure these things out as to what your timeline is exactly and how it fits with the County's, and I don't think it will be a problem. MR. MURPHY: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Holekamp, we've heard a lot of discussion about your involvement or noninvolvement. I think we need to hear your thoughts on this, 'cause you're right in the middle of it. MR. HOLEKAMP: Glenn several things that, this year, has year the schedule was October 19th, in a lot of the strings. The 7th, were put up. That was in October. 3rd, the lights were put on the cou those two days. Community service, Holekamp. Well, there's been different. Last the bulbs were replaced the lights and displays And November 2nd and rthouse and the annex on which was supervised by Zo-~~-no 47 1 2 3 4 5 5 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 an employee of the 216th Probation Department, has supervised in the last two or three years of putting the lights on the courthouse, and -- annex and courthouse, and last year it was done on November 2nd and 3rd. And then on the 9th and 10th, we were here, finished up, and stood up the tree and the fountain. So, yt~s, there's a possibility that we have started early in the past, but I don't think the displays were put out on the courthouse yard early. One of the problems this year with community service is -- is county fair -- Kerr County Fair was one week later this year than it was in years past, and in the past they have used the community service crew for picking up trash and different items at the county fairgrounds. So, that was this last weekend; that's why there was no way we could use community service. We only had one supervisor. Now, if the Justice of the Peace, which L believe is the community service workers that y'all said that were here, if they assign some here, we don't normally control their scheduling or their sign-outs or anything. That's their thing. But the adult probationers who are supervised by -- by the community service supervisor, they're scheduled, like, two to three months in advance. This coming weekend, the reason why they cannot be here is they are going to be at the Y.M.C.A. camp, which has been scheduled for approximately three months. If io-~~-oo 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~--. 25 48 we -- I work closely with Dan Edwards, who is the supervisor of that program for probation, and he's a very accommodating fellow, but he needs to know in advance what days. They work Saturdays and Sundays, so there's no reason why the -- the supervisor, with his crew of anywhere from 12 to 15 community service workers, cannot put up lights on this building in two days. Now, the electrical plugging in, to make sure everything is plugged in properly on these roofs, will probably have to be done during the week, because normally they don't have any electrical-type people on those crews, and -- and the Sheriff said that they would be available to use his people. I don't see a problem, because that -- it takes time to do that properly, plus to be safe. I don't have a problem with, this weekend, having someone here to unlock it, the courthouse. The weekend that they were talking about, we replaced all of the stairs in the courthouse, those -- those rubber steps, and it would have affected people walking on those steps that day; the glue was wet. So -- and what -- what y'all saw today is inmates were taking the light strings down, because they need to be tested. Last year, they put up the lights; there were a bunch of them out, and then it is impossible to change bulbs halfway up the building. So, what I'm encouraging, if the volunteers wish, they can plug them in their -- their area 1 r-_ - _ ,, 1 2 3 4 5 h 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 downstairs and test these lights to see which ones need to be replaced, which bulbs, which fixtures. That needs to be done before -- and it -- we'll take them back up on the roof to string them; that's not an issue. So, I -- you know, I really think we're aLl looking at the same thing. And I have not -- I had some health issues this year. That's the reason I didn't make a lot of the meetings, and I apologize to them, but I have not received any of the paperwork, the schedules. None whatsoever. So, any questions of me? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate it. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Holekamp. I -- MR. HOLEKAMP: But I have them scheduled -- I apologize, I didn't make this clear. I have them scheduled here at the courthouse on the community service the 8th, the 9th, and the 16th. `Phat will -- and then the 20 -- let's see. And the 22nd is the day of the lighting; is that correct? MR. MURPHY: Yes. MR. HOLEKAMP: So it's three full days, and that's even considering a rain-out. We should be able to get the lights up and get them tested during the week, if -- right now, I'm in the middle of a construction project, as this Court well knows, that I really don't have a surplus of people, but we will make it work, I promise you. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Holekamp. I lr-z~-oo 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 think that points out a larger -- this whole discussion points out a larger issue relative to a policy concerning the use of courthouse facilities and courthouse grounds, a matter that has been before the Court recently. And, with respect to this particular issue, it appears to be the thinking, on the one hand, that if a schedule is published, it becomes the obligation of the Court to -- to countermand it. Or, on the other hand -- maybe there's a feeling on the other hand that therE~ needs to be a schedule presented for approval in advance of the proposed schedule being formalized. So, it appears to me where we are is that, with respect to this particular issue, that there's going to be an effort made to try and reduce to writing an agreement specifically concerning the courthouse lighting issue, and the various checks and balances and the scheduling and -- and matters in relation to it. Is that your understanding, Commissioner Baldwin? COMMI;~SIONER BALDWIN: That's 100 percent correct, Judge. Thank you JUDGE TINLEY: If we have no motion to be offered on this item, we'll move on. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: We have a timed item at 10 a.m., and that being a public hearing. So, at this time, the Court will recess from the special Commissioners Court io-~~-oo 51 1 Park. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 10:07 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open court, as follows:) P U B L I C H E A R I N G JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Nicholson? You placed this on the agenda. Who did you want to present this matter? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Johnston. JUDGE TINLEY: All right. If there is any member of the public that has any question or wishes to be heard in connection with the public hearing for the revision of the plat of Lot 1, Village West Industrial Park, located in Precinct 4 of Kerr County, they'll -- they may come forward at this time and offer their thoughts or ideas. Is there any member of the public? Yes, sir? Please come forward and state your name and your address so that the court reporter may take it down, and then you're privileged to speak, sir. MR. DIETZEL: My name is Victor Dietzel, and I own Lot 4 in the said subdivision here that we're talking about. My only concern about this is, will there be any effect -- any changes on the plat concerninq my lot? JUDGE TINLEY: The only answer I can give you, Mr. Dietzel, is that, apparently, since the -- the revision of the plat only applies to Lot 1, without your 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 52 joinder, I don't see how it can. MR. DIETZEL: Well, I didn't either, but you sent me a letter. I showed up to make sure. JUDGE TINLEY: That's a legal requirement, that you be notified if you're within a certain distance. MR. JOHNSTON: You're lot -- which one? MR. DIETZEL: 4. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can you find Lot 4 on here? MR. DIETZEL: What you've got here -- no, it is not adjacent to it. MR. JOHNSTON: There's no change. MR. DIETZEL: Okay. JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member of the public that wishes to be heard in connection with this item? ~~"here being none, I will close the public hearing, and I will reconvene the special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this date. (The public hearing was concluded at 10:09 a.m., and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was reopened.) JUDGE TINLEY: And we will move to Item 10, which is consideration of the final revision of a plat for Lot 1, Village West Industrial Park i Precinct 4. Mr. Johnston? In-~,-nn 1 -~-~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 MR. JOHNSTON: I think we're ready to -- I think all of the signatures have been placed on the mylar except myself and the Judge. I think it's ready to be finalized. COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's -- Frank? There's a community water system on this? MR. JOHNSTON: There is, yes. MR. VOELKEL: I'll make one comment, too, just -- I know you guys are already aware of this. This was an extraterritorial property plat, so we have already been to the City of Kerrville on October the 9th; they had a public hearing and approved the plat. So, the City of Kerrville is behind this. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move that we approve the final revision of plat for Lot 1, Village West Industrial Park, and proceed forward. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the Court approve the final revision of a plat for Lot 1, Village West Industrial Park in Precinct 4. Any questions or discussion? A11 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) ~o-a~-oo 54 1 .-.. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next item on the agenda is a consideration and discussion of adoption of a travel voucher form to clarify the pay policy for out-of-county travel. Commissioner Baldwin? I believe you asked that this be placed -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This has come back from previous meetings, and it's simply adopting the travel voucher for our new program. And I move that we adopt the travel voucher form for the pay policy for out-of-town -- out-of-county travel. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion is made and seconded that the Court adopt the travel voucher form to clarify pay policy for out-of-county travel. Any further questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to make a comment that, although this is important, this is not the important part of the whole machine, in my opinion. I still think that to have it down in writing, the steps and the process which County employees would go through in order to make this travel voucher work, needs to be done, and I will be back at a later time with that. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. to-~~-oo 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,^.. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item nn this agenda is consideration of the renewal of telephone contract for Road and Bridge, and approve the County Judge to sign the contract. Mr. Johnston? MR. JOHNSTON: We have a new contract, I think, before you, which is about half of what the current contract is. We presently pay $151 a month for the equipment, and it will be reduced to $80 a month. And it's a five-year contract, and at the end of that time, we own the equipment. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same system? MR. JOHNSTON: Same system. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what you want (Mr. Johnston nodded.) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the Court approve the renewal of a telephone contract for Road and Bridge and authorize County Judge to sign the same. Any further question or discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. In light of the -- to-~~-oo 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I believe this is with the same entity as the jail system, the Kerrville Telephone Business Systems. And, in light of that, and in light of that contract and some of the terms that -- I may not be real happy with this at this point. I just want to make sure this is reviewed by the County Attorney prior to approval. MR. JOHNSTON: We agree with that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to make sure the County has an out if they don't perform. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No problem. I would revise the motion to approve it upon -- upon concurrence of the County Attorney. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the second. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I like what's happened here, I think, as long as the County Attorney likes it. And there are probably other opportunities to make similar savings in the way we do business, and I encourage all of our department heads and elected officials to find them and -- and bring them to our attention. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or comments on the motion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more comment. In-~,-oo 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that is just that the -- the term -- I believe it's three years? MR. JOHNSTON: The term is five years. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five years on the new contract? And I'm wondering -- this is just a thought. I'm not going to vote against it because of this, but I'm wondering if five years isn't too long a term in the telecommunication industry. I think one of the reasons it's likely that the price is going down in this one is because of the -- the industry has come down, not the fact that the County did a great job in negotiating here. I think it's just that things change, and five years in technology is a very long time for a contract, and, I -- you know, I would -- you krrow, if it's possible to get a shorter term, or -- you know, because of that technology issue, I wonder if five years isn't too long. Just a comment. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was the original lease? Five years? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe so. MR. JOHNSTON: I believe it was. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: The term of that lease isn't up yet. It's been -- you know, I don't believe. MR. JOHNSTUN: I don't know what the date of transfer -- it's probably on here. io-~~-oo 58 1 ,._ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think that it's -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you shorten the lease, the dollar figure might change. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, I think it goes up a little bit if we shorten the lease. I think there's an option there, or they did talk to us about that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think that, you know, the -- the term becomes an issue in technology. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a good point. The advancements in the industry and the highly competitive aspects of the industry, I think that's certainly a consideration. I assume that Road and Bridge people looked at some of those aspects when they were reviewing this thing before they brought it to Court. But any further questions or comments concerning the motion? If not, all in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item is the consideration and discussion of amending Court Order Number 28347, change tot 27, Riverpark Estates, to Lot 37, Riverpark Estates. Was that just a misnomer that we -- 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. JOHNSTON: This was only a typo in the court order. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Estates. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for approval of the agenda item. Any further questions or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next item on the agenda is Item 11, consideration and discussion of the administration of the Kerr County Floodplain Program, and establishing appropriate procedures in connection with the same. Commissioner Letz? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda based on our discussion at our last meeting, that we voted to move Floodplain into the Road and Bridge -- or Floodplain administration to the Road and Bridge Department. And -- but we really had not talked about it in great depth. And part of that motion was because of the time crunch we're ~o-~,-oo 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 under, based on the contract with U.G.R.A. being canceled. And I really referred this and talked to Frank a little bit about it, asked him to do some research to make sure that Road and Bridge thinks it's a good fit out there. And also to do little bit of research as to what we need to do, both budget-wise and just what -- procedure-wise to get that department up and -- or that administration of that program up and running so we don't have any lapses. And, Frank, I don't know if you've had time to do a whole lot of research on it, but appreciate hearing what you do have. MR. JOHNSTON: I think the duties of the Floodplain Administrator are pretty obvious; they're spelled out in the County Flood Prevention Order, so that's -- we know what the duties are. The transition is what we were looking at. I think it will work fine with Road and Bridge Department. It's just a question of, you know, jumping into this cold, the transfer one day to the next. I think it's all about November sometime. But, you know, we need to have a little -- hit the road running, not just dump it on us and, you know, try to make it work. I think the first step would be to -- for myself doing that position, would be to become certified in it. There's a training course to certify, and I'll get into that later. I guess we need to understand exactly what U.G.R.A.'s going to turn back over to us. I talked with Stuart last week. They have lots of 1G-~7-00 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 maps and documents and computer software, and -- and information on -- on flooding. I don't know if they're going to transfer all that over to us, or we have to go out and repurchase all that. We need to understand what that -- what we're getting, 'cause I think that would be an important database we have to have. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think coming over. Any of the -- any -- I mean, that big -- talking with Stuart, it's just full of maps, and I think those we get. A they have some software that they utilize, all the maps are really, it's not basically a table s Frank mentioned, I guess, on topography or CAD. MR. JOHNSTON: I think a lot of it's from KCAD. Stuart was showing me how it's operated. I think probably we can get some -- that information from them, and they could probably show us how to use it. That's something we don't currently do, so we would have to come up to speed on that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: If there are any licenses required or some information we can use, I think refer that to Shaun. If you can just work with Shaun, figure out exactly what we need, software/hardware-wise, to be able to do the job, and bring it back at our next court, or maybe even have it at this Court if you have -- if Shaun's had time to look at it, and maybe we'll take action on most of 62 1 ._ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 these items today. MR. JOHNSTON: As far as training, I don't know what Stuart's -- you know, what his plans are, what he's going to be doing, but I thought maybe if the County could contract with him for a short period of time to do a little O.J.T. for a week or something to kind of go over all this stuff, make sure we understand the scope of all of it. It may entail an additional clerk to keep -- I know it's one of the duties to keep all the records current, keep them all open to the public. May need someone to keep up with the -- you know, the records. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This would probably be a good place to talk about the level of activity on floodplain administration. On the August report, the year-to-date number of floodplain determinations made was 17. I think it was the same for -- same for July -- yeah. So, we could project that there's somewhere on the order of 20 floodplain determinations made a year. The -- the proposed need for an extra clerical person and the proposed amount of time that the County Engineer would spend on this one, I can't rationalize with -- with the few -- with the small amount of activity on floodplain administration. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, and I don't know. And I -- I see Stuart in the audience. MR. JOHNSTON: Stuart needs to address that. io-~~-cc 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 63 I think he said he worked 10 hours a week or something on that, not including clerical stuff, just what he does. COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- Stuart, you weren't even really asked to be here on this point, but are you comfortable answering some of this? You keep track of our determinations, but are there other things you do outside of the determinations? MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. I'm -- the 10 hours that I talked to Franklin about was not just determinations. That's hours on the phone, just talking to people. The determinations are usually after three or four contacts with the individual, trying to determine where their -- where they live, if they do live in the floodplain, and where they're going to build on the piece of property. So, usually that takes two or three visits with tYiem before they'll come in, sit across the desk from me, and we pull it up on the computer. So, there's a lot more time than what the paperwork will reflect as to what you're spending there. You're not getting credit. for much -- for much actual work, but you're dealing with the people on a pretty regular basis. As far as keeping track of the -- of the files, the paperwork starts when you do the determination, and so there's not a lot of paperwork to do. It's a lot of reviewing and things like that, taking applications, process the fees. There's -- Tish and Judy do that for me. i~-_,-oo 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ~8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the -- when there is a flood event like we had -- two years ago, right? Two years ago in July. MR. BARRON: Yes. COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much -- what happens then? What do you do? What are, I guess, the obligations of the Floodplain Administrator after a flood? MR. BARRON: It's going to depend on the type of flood that you have. Like, that one was actually declared a disaster, and so there was a lot of time that was -- that it took to go out and research everything and find out where the homes were. I talked to Franklin, Road and Bridge -- I did contact them to find out where the majority of the flooding in the county occurred, went out and found the houses that had been flooded, tagged them, told them they could not rebuild their houses till they come in and talk to me and see how much damage they've had in the house, scheduled a time to go out and look at them and see if it was substantially damaged or just partially damaged. And if it's substantiall y damaged, they cannot rebuild in the same location without elevating it or flood-proofing their house some way. If it's less than substantially damaged, they can go ahead and build back right where they're at. And, so, there is a lot of time, depending on the kind of flood that you have. And if we have a 100-year flood here in Kerr 1 _.,_, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 65 County, it -- you'll probably reed three or four more people's help. JUDGE TINLEY: Stuart, your floodplain determinations, counting the preliminary telephone conversations and then the visit across the table and working on the apps and so forth, on an average case, what would be the total time that you would spend in making such a determination in the average case, counting all these preliminary contacts and so forth? MR. BARRON: Usually, when they come in the office, I tell them to give themselves about 45 minutes to an hour. It gives them a little time to fill out the application while I'm doing my research, finding out the elevation. Then it's going to depend on the individual, how -- how many times they feel like they need to contact me and ask me questions. So, at the most, two hours, probably, I would say. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. From start to finish, including the initial telephone contact and -- MR. BARRON: I think so, yes. JUDGE TINLEY: -- informal, two to three hours, would you think? MR. BARRON: There's a lot of them that come in that -- that end up never getting a determination; just are they within a floodplain or not? They're just not sure. LO-_~-00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 66 All I do, I look on a computer and say, "No, this particular lct does nct have a floodplain on it." JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. MR. BARRON: That doesn't cost them anything, and they don't have to come into the office for that. Depending on what the setup on my computer is, that may take 15 minutes. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. MR. BARRON: If I've got to start my computer, it may take a little longer, but -- JUDGE TINLEY: In terms of ratio, how many -- how many of the contacts that you make result in actual determination, formal determination, versus just preliminary checks and you do a quick check and say, no, that's not in, or yeah, that definitely is in, and you're going to have to raise it up 60 feet to build or whatever`? MR. BARRON: Probably about a third of them get an actual determination, a clear -- JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And those run 15 to 30 minutes, generally? MR.. BARRON: To determine -- yeah, the ones that -- JUDGE TINLEY: The informal ones. MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. i0-27-u0 67 1 „_., 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ~5 1 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 MR. BARRON: Usually that can be done over the phone. They just need to know if they're in or out. If any part of it's in the floodplain, I make them come into the office to show me where they're going to build on their lot. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question of Stuart while he's still standing, Judge. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While we're on this particular topic, in terms of the amount of time, how much support time is involved -- administrative support time is involved, on an average? Case average? MR. BARRON: I would spay Tish probably spends about 15 minutes with the individual while I'm in there doing the determination. She reviews the application that they fill out, makes sure they have all their information, and accepts their fees. That sound right? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No follow-up after the meeting? No document follow-up? MR. BARRON: It depends -- that`s just for the determination. We haven't got to the permit part yet. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay. Not the good part. 25 I MR. BARRON: Just kind of letting y'all know. to-~~-no 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Ar.d, if y'all like, we can discuss that also. This is just to see where their house is, and then we determine -- through the determination process, I tell them how many feet above the stream bed or what the elevation's going to be of the 100-year flood. They go out there, they hire a surveyor -- would y'all like me to talk in the microphone? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably better. MR. BARRON: Then they'll go out and do a survey, determine actually how high that house is, and subtract the difference from my elevation -- my determination to where their house site is going to be. That will determine if they need a floodplain permit. If they're going to build below my number, they need a permit. That's when -- that's when a lot of the paperwork -- that's when the serious paperwork begins. The determinations are fairly easy. I try to talk the individual into building above that. If they build above that number, then they're out of the 100-year floodplain. If they say no -- we have one out of Hunt right now that wants to build below the floodplain, and there's not a lot they can do. If they want to build below the floodplain, it's really difficult. If they -- if they want -- then there's -- inside the floodplain, there's two delineations; you have "floodway" and "flood fringe." If you want to build in the flood fringe, it's easier than building in the floodway. Flood to-~~-oo 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 fringe is the -- if you're standing on a bridge looking at a flooded river, the stuff out in the middle that's really coursing by at a high rate of speed, that's the floodway. The water at your feet on both sides is called the flood fringe, where it's kind of just ponding; it's not really flowing. You can build in that ponding area, but they don't want you to build out there where the water's going to be flowing. So, after we do the determination, we determine, are they going to be in the floodway or the flood fringe? If they're going to be in the floodway, have to get an engineer to do a hydraulic -- hydrological analysis to tell them that whatever they're going to do in the floodway will not affect the properties upstream or downstream or their house -- their house will withstand a 100-year flood. JUDGE TINLEY: All of these permits that you're speaking about, or this permit process, that is in addition to the -- the determinations that we talked about a little bit ago? MR. BARRON: If the determine -- if an engineer's going to be required to do the hydraulic and hydrologic study, I tell them there's no sense in y'all paying me to do a determination, because it's going to be different than what he gets. Bis numbers are going to be the best information available, and that's what we use. JUDGE TINLEY: What -- what percentage of -- io-_,-~~ 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of the determination cases that you handle, what portion of them result in the landowner seeking a permit to build within the -- within the floodplain? MR. BARRON: I believe Commissioner Nicholson has the numbers there of the permits that were -- is that on that same page? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got three items. Determination activity for 11 months was 17. Residential permit, 3. Commercial permit, 3. MR. BARRON: So, it's not very many. I mean, usually we can -- after a little b.it of talking to the individual, you can somewhat persuade them to build out of the floodplain. Sometimes you can't. Sometimes -- the one in Hunt, we can't persuade him. Their property is fully enclosed and in the floodplain -- the floodway, and so it's -- and they need to elevate about 15 feet, so it's going to be quite interesting to see what happens with that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the things I'm -- you know, I'm: not sure how much the Court is looking at these maps. The maps are not detailed at all. The maps that were -- that we have to -- or the administrator uses are, I mear_, not much more than a highway map with a little shaded area around them. And, so, when it comes down to trying to delineate where a potential building site is on the scale, it takes -- I can imagine it would take quite a io-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-- 25 71 bit of time. 'Cause, I mean, I think that while the, you know, determination -- the numbers may not be that many, but, you know, you have to be -- we have to be very precise. Our administrator has to be very precise. The consequences for us not doing the job properly are severe to the County, or to the county insurance program, FEMA. So, it's really -- it's -- it's important. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It needs to be done well. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Franklin, I'm glad to see that you put all this good thought into this, and it's very helpful. Let me get over to budget and fees. You say in there fees should be credited to the budget and modified periodically to make this program revenue-neutral to Kerr County. MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not sure that -- based on the numbers, I'm not sure that that's possible. But -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But the thought was the fees should pay for the cost of the program. MR. ~7OHNSTON: Some of it, anyway, I would think. COMMISSIONER LETZ: The people using it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Generally, I endorse that concept; fees ought to pa~° for what we do for people. to-~?-nn 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So do I. MR. JOHNSTON: I'm not sure what the budget is just for the flooc4plain. I don't know if you have it broken down or what. MR. BARRON: We just -- this first -- last year was going to be the first year we had a floodplain line item. COMMISSIONER LETZ: It really hasn't been broken out in the past. On the training, it looks like there's nothing available. MR. JOHNSTON: I had occasion to call around; I got on the Internet and found some of these people that sponsor these programs. These are the FEMA program that -- I think it's the one Stuart took. Four and a half days, take a test, and try not to go to Emmitsburg, Maryland -- that's where the headquarters is -- to do that. They offer one in Arlington on December 1st. I called them, and they're booked up, and they have a bunch of people, you know, stand-bys. There's one at L.C.R.A. in the spring. He said they don't have a date for sure; it's going to be late spring. There's one in October in Oklahoma -- Norman, Oklahoma. That's January the 12th, so that's probably the nearest -- nearest date. It's the same course. I called them up this morning. They do have openings, so it's the same course. FEMA sponsors it, puts it on. And I think io-~%-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 73 there's no fee for the course; just have to pay for travel and getting there, staying a week. No matter where you go, it's probably going to be about the same. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is this meeting in Kerrville? MR. JOHNSTON: That's a little conference coming up in Kerrville on the -- it's not the course. It's just a little conference. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe -- MR. JOHNSTON: Conference -- Floodplain Management Association Conference. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe it's -- some part of that is tailored for elected officials. It's not a detailed course. It's more of a first -- MR. JOHNSTON: One-day course. He said -- probably for elected officials. He said it might be interesting to go to it. He sent me the information on it also. Can't beat the location. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Week from Thursday. MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And it's geared toward people like us. I'm enrolled. Some of you might want -- MR. JOHNSTON: You can get your CEU's. If you're already licensed, it helps you, you know, get those. lc-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 74 So, I thought maybe I'd go to that. There's also one on training on the computer software that they use for the mapping, ArcView, in Austin for one day coming up here in December. So -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, based on this and, you know, this Court_'s going to change direction as to where we put this administration, I'd ask you to come back at our next meeting with a budget, with some dollars. And I'd encourage you, probably, to sign up for the school. You can always cancel. First available school you can get into. And, in the meantime, I guess what we do in the interim, I'm not sure. I guess it depends somewhat on staffing of the O.S.S.F. program. And I don't know if there's anybody else in Kerr County, you know, other than Stuart, that's, you know, I guess, quote, certified. So, I don't know -- you know, I really don't have a good recommendation as to what we do until Franklin's certified. I would like to know, you know, is there, I guess, any jeopardy to the County, or what's the status if we don't have a certified person -- administrator managing the program? I would think -- I mean, as few certification opportunities as they're giving, I can't imagine that they can be, you know, too tough on not having a certified person -- administrator for a short period of time. MR. JOriNSTON: Do you know what? That -- I 10-2~-GO 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 75 know some things on the Internet, they're trying to encourage people to -- all of them to be certified, which must mean some of them aren't, and they're trying to tie it to the -- to the use of that National Flood Insurance Program; you must have a certified director. But probably the break-in period, might be possible not to have it. JUDGE TINLEY: Stuart, do you have any knowledge about that, whether there's a probationary or training period that's permitted without certification, as long as the affirmative steps are being taken to obtain certification? MR. BARRON: Right now, I don't believe you have to be certified. I -- I'd have to call FEMA to -- to really get their feel for that, but as far as I know, today, you do not have to be a certified Floodplain Administrator to do it. It gives you a lot more credibility, and you actually know what you're doing. MR. JOHNSTON: Might be an advantage. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It helps if you know what you're doing. MR. BARRON: Yes, sir. I can't imagine trying to do it without -- without going to that training. And after even after that training, it's going to take a little while. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm just -- you know, l~-~~-co 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 .---~ 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 I don't think it hur1~s anything -- not hurt anything, but changes, I think, the direction we need to go. And that we can work on a budget for our next meeting and get with Shaun on the exact hardware/software we're going to need, or you're going to need. And, you know, just count on a week from today, it's your program. JUDGE TINLEY: And I would ask also that when you come back, you give us as much detailed information about these training opportunities, you know, when -- MR. Jc~HNSTON: I think there's something attached there which gives a breakdown of what all it is, on some of the attachments in there. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in the interim, I'd encourage -- you know, Stuart's clearly our administrator for the rest of this week, so if you can get with Stuart -- MR. JOHNSTON: Maybe I can borrow him for a day or two. COMMISSIONER LETZ: A crash course on floodplain administration. MR. JOHNSTON: But he just had a baby. MR. BARRON: I've been out for a week, and I've got a lot -- I`ve got some training I've got to do tomorrow and the next day. So, I'll do what I can to help lu-~?-on ~~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 i4 15 16 1~ 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you, but I will not be available much of the time. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, congratulations, Stuart. I wasn't aware MR. BARRON: Thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further on this agenda item? Any motion to be offered, or further comments? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One -- one additional carry-on ~~ornment. When you're working with the budget, Franklin, consider how we can use the existing clerical work force out there at Road and Bridge, in lieu of adding -- having to add staff to do this clerical work for us. I'm just -- with only 25 or so cases, whatever you want to call them, a year out there -- MR. JOHNSTON: Well, see, I didn't know exactly how much -- what. the volume was on this, but you hate to keep adding workload to their -- they already have a -- keep adding things to their workload. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't mind keeping adding to it. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another thing -- well, two things. I think, with the -- and just for Shaun also, I know you put down a laptop. This seems to me like a program that, if we input data in the field, or -- you know, if you can input it, we care reduce the clerical need, hopefully. But if we can set up -- to-~r-uu 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 78 MR. Jt~HNSTON: That's true. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: -- some of the software to, you know, not have to have you write it down or input it and then have it re-inputted, might be of benefit, And the other thing, we -- I'm sure you noticed we carefully avoided talking about salary items for you, and I just want to share with the Court what T -- you know, what I previously told Franklin on this item. This is, clearly, in my mind, something beyond what we've asked the County Engineer to do in the past, and I -- but I said that I -- I think that we need to probably, about the first of the year, have a meeting with the County Engineer and go over this. I think Subdivision Rules are going to have some changes that are going to change his responsibilities and workload a little bit at that time; go over that. And, based on some of the conversations that we had during the budget process about the County Engineer, I think we need to address all those right after the first of the year, when we have a little bit of a handle on it, and I think his salary compensation and hours ar.d expectations will be clearly defined at that time. So, I just ask that the -- knowing that that`s coming, figure out -- you know, we can figure out maybe an hourly rate for the floodplain up until that point, and then we can handle it on a -- on a little bit larger scale after the first of the year. _o-~ -oo i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 79 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for this agenda item? Thank you, Mr. Johnston. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thanks for your work on that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thanks, Franklin. JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, we're a little bit beyond our normal mid-morning break point. I`ll go ahead and we'll recess and we'll come back, oh, about 11 o'clock. (Discussion off the record.) (Recess taken from 10:41 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's reconvene the meeting -- special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this date. We've hart our mid-morning break. We'll now move to Item Number 12, consideration and discussion of the status of Environmental Health Department, their new office space and possible location of temporary office space. Commissioner Letz? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda just so we can kind of get an update on timing, because of some of the other agenda items, and get an idea as to, realistically, if Mr. Holekamp feels that space will be ready. Well, if he can give us -- if he can give us a date as to when it will be ready, and based on that, we may need 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a temporary -- may not need a temporary location. MR. HOLEKAMP: No, it's not ready. JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, you will need a temporary location. MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, you will need a temporary place. A couple comments relative to that is that -- as y'all are well aware, is that there's several of the trades that go into place down here that have to be scheduled. I mean, the businesses in town; i.e., the electrical, even though we have a contract with them, and air-conditioning and several of those, it has to be scheduled -- and telephone company. And Shaun is here too, and there's several issues with puttinq conduit in the walls for computer cables and electrical. So -- so, this is -- the electricians are at it today putting the boxes in so we can go ahead and finish the sheetrock. Then we're going to do taping and floating hopefully in the next day or two. But the floor, we cannot do anything until we're through with all of those other items. So, if you're looking for a date that we can move in there, it would be -- it would really be stretching with givinq you a firm date. I would like to think the 15th of November is a -- I could do it. But, there again, if one thing doesn`t fall into place, it could mess up that -- that schedule. COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- that being said, io-~,-cc 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .--. 25 81 that, in my mind, me~~ns we need a temporary location. MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: What needs to be done to the office spaces downstairs just to make them so they can be occupied? MR. HOLEKAMP: They're ready, sir. COMMISSIONER LETZ: In this building? MR. HOLEKAMP: Other than telephone. I mean, that would have to be -- telephone company would have to send people over here to -- to assign numbers and put it into those jacks that are -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would I think that -- I think that's what we need to do. We need to get those office spaces in thi:~ building set up s~ that we can operate out of there, and also be a space to move files and everything else. MR. HOLEKAMP: When I said immediately, Commissioner, I meant, like, a day to two days to -- to move some stuff around. But -- but, there again, we would really need to -- the telephone and that sort of thing, I -- I really don't have any control over -- COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: Right. MR. HOLEKAMP: -- when those people can be COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- how did I ~o-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 ._. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 82 style the -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question while he's looking. Not all those offices down there -- are you talking about the suites below us? The suites? COMMISSIONER LETZ: The suites. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Below us? They're not all computerized, e=i.1:her_. But they -- they are? All of them are? No, they are not. MR. BRANHAM: They're not all computerized, but that would be a very short amount of time to make them 11 ( ready. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a piece of cake; just pull some wire over there. MR. BRANHAM: Yeah. COMMI:~SIONER BALDWIN: Okay. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner Letz, is this the right time to talk about a hiatus of two or three days on transaction of business? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was -- I was thinking the same thing as to -- we almost need to call a couple of items up at once, I think, to talk about them. JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go ahead and call Number 13 so that we can kind of run these together, since they seem to be in tandem. Consideration and discussion of the transition schedule for the transfer of the O.S.S.F. io-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 83 program from U.G.R.A. to the Kerr County Environmental Health Department. Does that help you? COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: Yes. And this was -- you know, if everyone is clear, we're all on the same page, U.G.R.A. will no longer handle the O.S.S.F. program effective 5 o'clock this Friday, based on our schedule, and we'll get to some of the hiring and things that are coming up. We are not going to be totally up and running by a week from today on that M~~nday, though I think it can be shortly after that. My recommendation is going to be that we close the O.S.S.F. office Everywhere for Monday and Tuesday of next week, and reopen it next -- I mean, Wednesday, the 5th of November, downstairs i.n the temporary location. I think, by that time, that gives us time to do a move on Monday and Tuesday of all the files, the office equipment, other things that we're bringing over from U.G.R.A. It gives Maintenance time to put desks anc~ things in the temporary offices downstairs, and then it also allows the Court -- that's really more under another agenda item, but time to call a special meeting on Monday and Tuesday of next week for hiring personnel. A.nd I think, that way -- I mean, I think it's reasonable for the public to understand that we'll close it off, 'cause I think it's better, in my mind, to keep it closed just for two days while we're going through transition, rather than trying to limp through it and do a -o-_ -oo 1 2 3 4 5 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 .-- 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 84 poor job. And we do, obviously, need some time to get this move to take place, so that would be my recommendation on that part of it. So, your question -- Commissioner Nicholson and I have talked about -- a little bit about this and came up with this as a plan that we think is workable, November 5th. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our objective is to -- is to operate an O.S.S.F. administration that provides a good experience, a good service for everybody that comes in contact with it, and I view that this may -- this may inconvenience some people, being out of business for a couple days, but I vLew it as an investment toward creating our capability to provide that good experience in the future. MR. JORDAN: There's people going to be trying to close their property out. There's new houses; there's going to be open ditches. There's going to be a bunch of stuff. You can't leave them sitting two days, and -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you identify yourself, sir? MR. JORDAN: Huh? COMMI::~SIONER NICHOLSON: Would you identify yourself? io-~~-oo 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. JORDAN: I'm Bennett Jordan. We got open ditches. I install septic tanks, and we got close-outs on -- which is interest rates and all that stuff. Means a whole lot to a lot of people. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's things going on next Monday and Tuesday? MR. JORDAN: I imagine it's all over Kerr t me. Could be somebody else. Might be 10 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Stuart, could you comment on how much it would inconvenience people if we shut down for Monday and Tuesday? MR. BARRON: Kind of a rock in a hard spot. There's three of our installers here in the room. I believe it would -- depending on if there's house closings and things of that nature already scheduled for Monday, it would inconvenience those people. It depends on how -- how much up and running it is going to be on Wednesday. I mean, if it -- if they hit thE~ ground running and get a lot of things done. If it's going to be a few more days of determining everything is down there, getting the computers up and going, getting the phone numbers out to everybody -- we've had a lot of contact at our office, "What are the new phone numbers going to be? How do we get hold of y'all? Where are y'all going to be at?" We don't know what to tell io-~~-oo 1 ---. 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 i2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 86 anybody. So, it is -- there is going to be a larger transfer time than -- than the two days that it will be shut down. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. If the Court adopts the O.S.S.F. order that's on the agenda today, that order eliminates real estate inspections. Does -- is that order effective today? And, if so, why would anybody be inconvenienced in terms of a house closing? MR. BARRON: It is not in effect until the executive -- executive from T.N. -- T.C.E.Q. pass on the document. Executive Direr_tor, excuse me. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That could be done by this week -- well, yE;ah, potentially. But I think we ought to have a public hearing on that, personally. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you do, too. I have a question of Glenn, though. Where is Glenn? How many more work days do you need to finish the new quarters? MR. HOLEKAMP: 12 to 14, minimum. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12 to 14, five of which are this week? MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. COMMI:~SIONER WILLIAMS: So -- MR. HOLEKAMP: I need these next two weeks. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, another week beyond this week would get you very, very close? io-~~-nn 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .-- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~--. 25 87 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir, if everything falls into place. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And if we're talking about the possibility of -- of not reopening -- or deliberately closing down for three days, that leaves two additional, which pr~~mpts me to ask, why not shut the program down for a wE~ek? Let them finish the new quarters and not have to move the program twice. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's too much of an inconvenience Eor the public for a week. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, the ideal situation is to get U.G.R.A. to keep it for one more week or 10 days. And I -- I have -- I've scratched my head on this. I cannot see why that -- that wouldn't work. I just don't understand it, unless it has something to do with Christmas decorations, and then I'm perfectly clear. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER LETZ: Orly thing I can say is that they've given employees a two-week notice, and that two weeks is up, as I understand it, this Friday, so there's no employees at U.G.R.A. as of Friday. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand. That's what I'm talking about. Keep that running for -- I mean, I don't think it's going to break them. JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Barron, if -- if there are closings scheduled for Monday or Tuesday of next week, is it i^-~,-oo 88 1 2 3 4 5 h 7 8 9 10 11 12 _r. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not normal for whatever clearances or activities that -- that the O.S.S.F. administrator needs to take, that they already be taken by the end of this week, such that everything's in placf~ for closings for Monday and Tuesday of next week? MR. BARRON: No, sir, not -- not necessarily. We've -- we're just about -- our schedule's just about full for this week already. It's very rare that that happens, but being that this transition is going to take place in the very near future, everybody's trying to get as much done as they can, and we are -- Thursday and Friday of this week, we are going to be goin~~ through files over there. The staff is unaware if they're going to be hired to come over here; we're going to try to get it in order for whoever will be here at the County, so we can pick up wherever we left off. One option that y'all may consider is, if y'all do hire somebody, is contract with U.G.R.A. just for office space for a week or two. `Phat will save two transition periods for the County. COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option may be just kind of similar to what Commissioner Baldwin is saying, is to -- this is rea.Lly more up to the current staff -- personnel, is if, you know, there's a way that the County can hire them on a c~.~ntract basis for a couple of days, maybe a week, and see if they would be willing to, you know, io-z~-oo 89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 i6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not be employees; just contract individuals with the County. MR. JORDAN: Make it for two weeks. Make it for two weeks, and then you have everything ready. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. MR. JORDAN: Make it for two weeks, and that's one pay period for the employees. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: But I'm saying, that's not -- we don't -- the ball's out of our court if we do that. I don't have a problem with doing that, but I have no idea -- I've not talked with any of the current staff, whether they'd be willing to do that. They may or may not; I don't know, but that would be an option to have on a contract until, you know, the positions are filled, or even after the position's filled. It could be a longer period, and that's just an o~~tion that we can look at. But I think it has -- that's something that is more of a -- up to the individuals involved, whether they would be willing to do that or not. JUDGE TINLEY: GJell, it looks like we got two issues. Or.e is space, which, of course, is not up to the individual; that's up to the entity. Secondly, with regard to the personnel, those are individual issues, and certainly, on a temporary basis, you know, whatever -- whatever is necessary under a transition schedule that we come up with, but th<~t seems like the more logical thing to io-~%-oo 90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do to prevent two moves, and also to kind of keep the bases covered during the transition period. And, hopefully by that time, we can get T.C.E.Q. approval on -- on the order that we sent forward. That would be nice to have, too, at that point in time, I think. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I mean -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I want to ask a couple detail questions on the -- the shutting down for a day or two, whether -- whether to do it now or later, or whether or not we do it. If somebody's closing on a real estate transaction on Monday, isn't all the paperwork for that done by the end of this week and the administrator has no more role in that closing? MR. BARRON: Depends on when we're notified. So, I -- MR. JORDAN: If I haven't finished the job till Monday afternoon -- or I'll say Saturday; I mean, I finished it Saturday for inspection for Monday, okay? It's got to be inspected before you can cover it up or whatever you're doing, okay? And then they can come out and inspect it and -- and send them a deal like the title company, that it's all been taken :are of, and they will send the license to them, fax it to them or something like that. You can close it out that Monday afternoon. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you -- if you io-~~-~o 1 ..-, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 91 finish up a job on late Friday afternoon and you're waiting for an inspection -- MR. JORDAN: It will be Monday. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we were closed Monday or Tuesday, y~~u'd be sitting there idle for two days? MR. JORDAN: Yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: I think Stuart just mentioned that. MR. JORDAN: If I had an open ditch, it's only rained three inches, there I am sitting with an open ditch out there. Got all my life investment in that open ditch and everything, waiting for inspection, and y'all close dcwn, and then there I am. I'm flooded out, washed out, whatever. And just not me; it's a bunch. Y'all are saying -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want that to happen. MR. JORDAN: I'll cover it up, but -- that's the only thing that a white person can do, just cover it up, and y'all wrestle over it: then. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I knew if he'd be there long enough, he'd step ir. it. MR. JORDAN: Wouldn't -- JUDGE TINLEY: I think what he said a little bit ago was that -- that you can't -- schedule is full for 10-~7-np 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .._ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 92 the balance of this week. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: Right. JUDGE TINLEY: So, if somebody makes a noise about wanting anything for the rest of this week, they're -- you say, "You're going to have to deal with the new guys." Is that what you tel'- them? MR. BARRON: Yes, sir, that's -- that's accurate. We took the last inspection this morning. COMMI,~SIONER LETZ: Well, I guess -- JUDGE TINLEY: So, hope you don't have anything else going this week, Bennett. You're in big trouble. MR. JORDAN: Well, we did it when David Leidke was in charge. When he went on vacation, we just had tc stop, tco. That's how come David Leidke's not here. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- we have two options. MR. JORDAN: Y'all put yourself in this jam. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: I don't believe it was all us. MR. JORDAN: We got to keep on working. Heck, I got tractor payments and house payments just like everybody else. COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's two options, and they don't preclude each other. We can shut down for two days, or we can -- or we could visit with the current staff io-~~-oc 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 93 and see if they're willing to work on a contract basis for a week or two weeks or some amount of time. I don't know the best format to do th<~t. I don't think it's appropriate to ask them -- I know they're all here, but we're not -- I don't think it's appropriate to ask them in open session. So, we could either visit one-on-one with them, or Dave or I or -- you know -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't our committee members approach them, just like we're doing everything else? Why are you beating around that bush, Jon? Just do it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- we better have a Plan B in case they say no. (Discussion off the record.) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This may be the first time I'd ever agree with Bennett Jordan, but I think he's onto something. And don't let it out that I did; I have to live here, but I think he's onto something there. To give plenty of time to get everything done and up and running. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's ideal. We can try that. And I don't mean -- I think that -- you know, I hope U.G.R.A. will be agreeable. I think -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would Plan B be, in the event that they don't? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .^ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 94 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If certain elements of Plan A fall through the cracks. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we will pass this agenda item; we'll be back here at 1:30 today, and I think, between now and then, we'll have an opportunity to visit, at least brie:Ely, with the personnel that are currently employed by iJ.G.R.A. acid with Mr. Etter. JUDGE TINLEY: Does anybody have a motion that they wish to offer in connection with Agenda Items 12 or 13 at this time? The consensus I hear is that we will pass on this for the present time, and we'll come back to it -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Later. JUDGE TINLEY: -- at a later time, within the time permitted that we have lawfully to consider it. COMMI;~SIONER LETZ: And before we leave that -- and I would, you know, appreciate it if the four individuals -- four ..hat work at U.G.R.A. currently, if you can avail yourself right after -- around noon for a few minutes, I'd appreci~~te it, just to ask a couple of questions so we can kind of resolve this this afternoon. JUDGE TINLEY: The next item on the agenda is consideration and discussion of approval of a fee schedule for O.S.S.F. program. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just asked Thea to is-~~-„~ 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ,._. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .--. 25 95 basically get the current schedule and put it in here so that we have a fee schedule adopted by the Court when we get it over here. I'm not necessarily -- I have not spent a great deal of time looking at it. I really don't think we should make any chancles at this time. I think we may want to make some changes down the road, but I think we should have tYie benefit of the staff, once they're in the new positions, to do that. But I would make a motion at this time that we adopt the fee schedule as presented. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to Any questions COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. You said that we can take another look at it down the road. Down the road, like, a month? Or -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: A manager in that department. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: we can come back and revisit some of COMMISSIONER LETZ: I to have some things in place so this s soon as we get a Okay. So, as soon as these things. just wanted to be able wouldn't fall through the cracks. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate that. 10-27-00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 96 We have to have a fe~~ schedule in place, and the obvious thing is to continue the existing fee schedule. But, just as with floodpiain, and some comments from my colleague in Precinct 4, this program, in my opinion, should stand on its own two feet. It should not be subsidized by the taxpayers, 48 -- 48 or 5G percer,.t of whom live inside the city limits ar.d pay for their sewer directly, over and above their tax load. I believe this program should stand on its own two feet, ar.d fee schedule should be adjusted to make it do that. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree with Commissioner Williams in principle. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or discussion about the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by -- MR. BARRON: Can I make a comment on that last statement, plea:~e, sir? To Commissioner Williams' statement? I just -- I have a comment. JUDGE TINLEY: All right. MR. BARR.ON: My comment is, if -- if the program is going to stand on its own two feet, the 10-acre exemption will have to be expanded (sic). There's a lot of properties out in Kerr County that -- that are larger than 10 acres, and for this program to work properly, stand on its own, it will havr~ to do away with that. 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 2 :3 24 25 97 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Any further question or comment on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item is consideration and discussion of the process for hiring the personnel for the Environmental Health Department of Kerr County. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda along with Commissioner Nicholson, as these other items, so we can get a definite procedure in place and timeline for hiring new personnel. We are receiving applications through this Friday. 5 o'clock Friday is the cutoff date. My recommendation would be that we have a special Commissioners Court meeting next Monday, and at that meeting we will -- can do or.e of two things. We can -- I think Commissioner Nicholson and myself will be glad to go through resumes, pick out three, four, whatever the Court desires, for each position, recommend those. Or we can just meet as a group and go over all of them and pick three or four and, you know, interview based on that. Just kind of two ways to get basically to a group that we want to interview. I'd recommend those interviews be held on Tuesday, and the io-~~-oo 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 decision made Tuesday -- on Tuesday as well for all three positions. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any problem with that. I don't want to review all of those applications. I'd lake to see maybe three. COMMISSIONER LETZ: We were -- and we have -- there's two, I guess, approaches we can do. We can hire all three kind of independent of the Court, or we can hire the -- the manager first, and have the manager at least present, and give a little bit of time to go over the applications and, you know, give us some input. Obviously, that person would be on very short notice, but would be able to have some input in the process. Just a thought as to how we want to do that. I do think that if we do -- one of the pluses to Commissioner Nich~~ls~n and myself recommending three or four individuals for each position is that we can notify those that are being recommended and ask them to make themselves available on Tuesday for interviews. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like for you to consider that, in the event there's some reason why you can't put the manager in place first, that you consider putting the administrative support in place, so that you have some continuity in terms of client interface. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: So, I will make a motion that Commissioner Ni.~~holson and myself will recommend three l~-~~-gin 99 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 23 .., 2 4 25 candidates fer each of the three new positions. That will be done at a special meeting on Monday, and we will have interviews set up fo:r those recommended candidates on Tuesday, and the meeting will be at 9 o'clock both days. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioners Court is going to interview? Or you two guys are going to interview? Commissioners Court's going to interview three from each one? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Three from each one, the full court. I really am not comfortable with Commissioner -- I think the full court needs to make that decision. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you 100 percent. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I guess you should know that I have arranged to interview with two of the current staff, because they're likely candidates, and so this will be in addition to this process. And -- and you might want to do somE~thing similar. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, the resumes are availablE~ with our court administrator, and anyone -- any of the Court certainly is welcome to go through them and contact any of the individuals if they have any questions, and pass that information on to us if you so choose. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You said two or io-~,-co 100 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-. 25 three? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So far, I've arranged to meet -- .I've got appointments to meet with two of the -- two of the four. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two of the four? JUDGE TINLEY: Current. COMMI;~SIONER LETZ: Of the current staff. JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion. Do I hear a second? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the committee, consisting of Commissioners Letz and Nicholson, go through the resumes and conduct interviews as may be necessary or :,~ppropr_iate, in their judgment, and recommend to the Court next Monday mor-Wing, at 9 a.m., three candidates for each of the three different jobs, and the Court at that time will be in a position to discuss or confer, otherwise interview those candidates, with the selection to be made the following day at -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I said 9 o'clock, but I really don't know why we just can't really post it for Monday. If we need to extend it over till Tuesday, we extend it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. JUDGE TINLEY: Is that satisfactory? 1.,-_~-., ,, 1 .-~ 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 101 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we can handle it all Monday, we can handle it Monday. JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Any further question or discussion on the motion? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, will either one or both of those processes be held in executive session? JUDGE TINLEY: In all probability, the personnel portions of it, the selection/interviewing portion of it will probably be in executive session, I would 12 ~ imagine. ,_ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Nemec? MS. NEMEC: Just -- I'd just like to make a comment. It's not directly to the motion, but it is on this agenda item. We were kind of pressed for time when we had to put this in the paper and -- and post the job on the web site and everything. And I know, too often, y'all are -- people come to you with complaints about employees and stuff, and when it's something good that happens, y'all hardly ever hear about it. But, really, this would never have gotten done if Shaun wouldn't have jumped in and helped me with it, because my computer crashed that day. And, I mean, he had a lot of other things going on, and I know it's hard for him with all these elected officials and department io-~~-oo 102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 heads coming to him, for him to prioritize, but he got right down to my office and helped me get it done. So, this is all falling into place 'cause he was there for me, so I just wanted y'all to know that. JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or comments on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next item is consideration, approval of the policy concerning the authority of the Manager/Field Representative of the Environmental Health Department, a redress of grievance process, and the organizational relationship of the Manager and his or her staff with the Commissioners Court. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This -- you see in your book there, I have drafted a proposed policy for the Environmental Health Department in an attempt to address some issues that I think every member of the Court has expressed some concern about, that being the -- the issue of the autonomy of the Manager to -- to administer the O.S.S.F. to-z~-no 103 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 2i 22 23 24 25 program without undue interference from individual members of the Commissioners Court, while assuring that citizens who are using the program have an appropriate route of appeal. So, I put together a policy that attempts to deal with those two issues. JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate your efforts, Commissioner. In the last paragraph, I would make two minor wording recommendations. In the second line, "authorized to engage in activities to...", I would interline "discuss or" so that it reads "discuss or mediate." And then, following on, "grievances outside the grievance process outlined above or otherwise" -- interline, "engage or" interfere in the administration of O.S.S.F. or solid waste. I think it's a little broader, gives a little bit more meat to the policy. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you give us those again, please, sir? JUDGE TINLEY: Second line would read, "engage in activities to discuss or mediate grievances." And then, in the last line, "otherwise engage or interfere in the administration." COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, let me see if I can understand what the reality of that -- the impact i_t would have. If -- if Bennett Jordan comes to me and says, "I've got a problem with the way that's being administered," that does not suggest that I can't discuss that with him to to-~~-oc 104 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 understand the -- the issues involved before -- before bringing that to Commissioners Court for resolution of grievance? JUDGE TINLEY: If you're talking about the overall policy of the program? No. No. If you're talking about an individual grievance -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm. JUDGE TINLEY: -- or the -- the ministerial act of the administration of the program, that, of course, would be off the table. But if you're talking about overall policy for Commissioners Court to change policy, for example, in a given matter -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I'm talking about a specific grievance. If -- if Mr. Jordan says to me, "Your inspections aren't being done timely, and that's costing me money," this -- these words seem to -- seem to indicate that I can't discuss that with him for understanding; that I have to say, "Okay, we're going to have to take this to Commissioners Court." COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I look at it -- I understand what you're saying. I look at it like the unit road system; i.e., Road and Bridge. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do too. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would never -- I mean, I can't imagine a time that I would have a private io-~~-oo 105 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conversation with someone about a Road and Bridge issue without -- without the County Engineer being there, because that is his job. The -- the people put him there. And, I mean, I'm not going to get involved in it. I know I threw a curve at you there. But -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm doing it wrong, then, 'cause if anybody -- somebody contacts me and says, "I've got potholes here; I need some help on them," I'm going to say, "Let's go look at your potholes, and then I'll get you in touch with" -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not me. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- "Road and Bridge." COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not me. Call the County Engineer. The people voted him in -- or not voted him in, but voted the system -- the unit road system in, which eliminates the County Commissioner from the -- the inter-workings of that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think I'm kind of maybe in between the two. I mean, I think that -- I find it very difficult just to say you can't discuss it at all, because how do you know -- I mean, if I get a call, it will be a -- you know three, four minutes into a conversation till I know what they're even talking about, and I'm discussing it. So, I really -- you know, you can't discuss 106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,~ 25 it at all? I think that's a little bit strong. I think that -- you know, I think you have to -- the intent is clear here. Individual Commissioners are not to get involved COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- individual O.S.S.F., tree administration of the rules and regulations. And I think that you just have to rely on the Commissioners having enough integrity to -- once it gets to the point that they understand there is a complaint, then say, "Okay, I understand it. We can get it on the agenda." COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Wouldn't that be -- COMMI;~SIONER WILLIAMS: Which prompts me to offer another suggestion here. I'm not in disagreement, but I think adding the word "discuss" limits our ability to even communicate with our constituencies about items that they may have on their mind. I would like to suggest that the -- that the paragraph be amended to read, "individual members of the Court are not authorized to" -- and take out the words "engage in activities." Are not authorized to mediate. That's the whole crux of it. COMMISSTONER NICHOLSON: There you go. COMMI;~SIOTdER WILLIAMS: It is exactly the crux of it. If somebody says, "Well, you know, I want a decision out of you," you're not going to get one out of me. io-~?-oo 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 107 I'll put on it the agenda; you bring it to court. But I do want to engage in a discussion, because they initiated it, and I'm hard-pressed to say no, I can't talk to you about COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Commissioner, you need t~ know enough about the issue that you can intelligently put on it the agenda. COMMI:~SIONER WILLIAMS: That's exactly right. So, I'd like to -- I'd like to suggest we remove the words "engage in activities to." COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you something right quick. Y'all are scaring me just a little bit. If -- if Bennett Jordan -- first of all, if Bennett calls me, I'm hanging up. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he calls me, what do I do? COMMI;~SIONER BALDWIN: That's up to you. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is going to be known as the Bennett Jordan policy. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. It's the Jordan policy. If Bennett Jordan calls me, and -- and then I -- after four hours of the nonsense that he always does, and once you realize that there is a complaint, I'm saying call the administrator. You have to talk to the administrator. I don't say I'm going to put it on the to-~i-on 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 IO 11 12 13 14 15 16 i7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 108 Commissioners Court agenda. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Commissioner, suppose that person says, "Yes, I've already talked to the administrator, and we have a disagreement here. And I'm asking for your help in getting the Commissioners Court" -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not going to take his word for it. I'm going to visit with my employee -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- to find out where all that is. And if -- if that is the case, yes, then we go on. COMMI;~SIONER NICHOLSON: And you're going to want to know enough about that citizen's issues that you can intelligently discuss it with -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that's fine. That's fine. I understand what you're saying, and you're absolutely correct. I'm not going to do that. Do not bring a septic tank to Precinct 1. Go to the administrator. If you can't work it out, come to Commissioners Court. Don't bring that stuff to me. Simple, period. Cut-and-dried. Been there and done that, and it's the most unpleasant thing I've ever done. COMMI:~SIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. You and I have had this conversation before. But Paragraph 2 says if we get to the point that this Court has to Zo-~~-oo 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 it 12 109 adjudicate the issue, you have to put it on the agenda. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what it says. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. If our administrator says, "Commissioner Baldwin, we've had this thing," and Bennett ~~alls up and says, "We've had this thing," you know, I'll be happy to put on it the agenda. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's a good point. I think that the -- as to who puts it on the agenda, I don't think the Commissioners should put it on the agenda. I think the administrator should put it -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. I agree 100 .,_., 13 percent . 14 15 16 me. 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that they -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That`ll be fine with COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the -- the individual who has a grievance, you know -- I mean, the administrator can't say no. If we want to get it on the agenda, it gets on the agenda. JUDGE TINLEY: The aggrieved person can request the administrator have it placed on the agenda. It's a right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: The administrator doesn't have the option of saying no. But I don't -- I don't really io-~~-oo 1 ,-, 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 110 think it needs to come to the Commissioner; I think it really needs to come through that department. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, then, you can make another change. That would be in that sentence, "The appeal is initiated by the aggrieved person notifying the appropriate" -- notifying the appropriate County Commissioner of the basis of a grievance, and then the -- the program administrator should place it on the agenda. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it should say the appeal "initiated by the aggrieved person notifying" -- JUDGE TINLEY: The administrator. COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- "the administrator of the basis for the grievance." COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine. But, somehow or other, you got to know about it. You need to know about it, or you're going to get blindsided up here. You need to know about it. Somebody has to tell you about it. MR. PEARSON: Administrator would. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Administrator hopefully would tell you. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hope so. MR. PEARSON: That would be part of the process. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let us hope. 1„-~,-~. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 111 JUDGE TINLEY: And you have -- and you eliminate, in the next to the last sentence, "shall notify Manager of the Environmental Health Department." COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. JUDGE TINLEY: Shall notify the aggrieved person, that the aggrieved person -- that the grievance is scheduled to be heard. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All I'm saying is that the -- the Commissioner should handle as less of this process as possible. That's all I'm trying to say. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree, until we're in here as a Court. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Until we're in here as a whole. COMMI:~SIONER NICHOLSON: Any objections to the title? (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, title looks good. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The color of the ink, now. We -- COMMISSIONER get this -- these changes m vote on it today? COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dave, is it possible to ode by this afternoon so we can NICHOLSON: Sure. LETZ: Okay. BALDWIN: Are we through with 112 1 ..-_ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ,-- 25 that? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Until -- it's going to come back, I think. We'll be back at 1:30. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further on this one? All right, we'll pass that one for possible later action. Next item, consider and discuss and approve an order adopting rules of Kerr County, Texas for On-site Sewage Facilities anc~ authorize the County Judge to submit the proposed rules to the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality for approval, and setting a public hearing on the same if necessary. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what you see before you -- Commissioner Nicholson did more of the work on that, the drafting of it, but I think it is the model language for a state order. There's no Section 10 -- well, there's a Section 10, but it doesn't have anything special. I mean, it refers to duties and powers, just the model order. Now, I'm in Eavor of approving this and submitting it to T.C.E.Q. You know, I don't -- I think for approval, but I also think we need a public hearing on it, because I think -- because we are making a change, and I think the public has a right to give us their input. And I will also say that the state law does not require that public hearing. As I understand it, we can submit them when we're adopting state rules, and that's it, but I prefer the former, of io-z~-co 113 1 ^._ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 having a public hearing. My only question really goes as to the order of those events. I know that if you're -- generally, if you're going to have the public hearing, you know, you have to submit the rules, get them to approve it, and then do the public hearing and then resubmit them again, which seems kind of bizarre to me to do it that way. But if we're doing the state rules, I don't know why we can't -- 'cause we don't have to have the public hearing -- why we can't have the public hearing before we submit them. Makes a lot -- you know, because there is a chance that there may be a change made based on what we hear in the public hearing. I don't know about -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we have this discussion about a month ago, when some attorney -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- constituent advised us we couldn't proceed the way we were trying to proceed? COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we weren't using state rules. It's different when you -- as I understand it, if you're adopting state rules, you don't have to have a public bearing; you just adopt them. But I think we need to give the public a ch<~nce to voice their opinion on the rules. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. _o-~.-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 114 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I think we need to -- I think we need to adopt them and send them to Austin. I'm not -- I'm not convinced that they're going to go through this little process within a few days, like y'all indicated earlier. This could take a while. I've seen it take a good while. COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. JUDGE TINLEY: What's the time frame on the public hearing, assuming one• is necessary? Would that be 10 to 14 -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe it's 72 hours. MS. SOVIL: Has to be published. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Has to be published. But, I mean, it's -- I mean, it's a -- I believe it's 72 hours, from what I -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's -- what's the County Attorney say? Where is he? MR. MOTLEY: I haven't reviewed it. I mean, I don't know. MR. BARRON: It's 72 hours. Has to be published. MR. JORDAN: That's what I was trying to tell you. JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Jordan. COMMISSIONER LETZ: 72 hours, but you have to 10-^?-Ou 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 115 get it published and notice, so I think we're looking at about a week, at a minimum. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can we hold a public hearing at the same time we hold our emergency meeting -- or special meeting next week? JUDGE TINLEY: Next Monday? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that clouds the issue a little bit. I think we're really trying to do two very different topics; be better to do them at different times, I mean, during the day. Have one at -- do our meeting at 9:00, and then maybe at 3 o'clock in the afternoon, do the public hearing. COMMI;~SIONER NICHOLSON: Well, you can -- you can read the -- read the law, and you can read into it that you need to first go to T.C.E.Q., or you can read into it that, no, you don't have to do that, hold a public hearing. What I do know is that -- is that other entities have held their public hearings, sent the rules to T.C.E.Q., and they're approved, so I think we're -- we're safe in going that route. I also think we're safe in that the T.C.E.Q. says the -- if you adopt the model state order, then we're going to approve it, so I don`t think there's any -- there may be bureaucratic delays, but I don't think there's going to be any questions about -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 10-~i-Ou 1 2 3 4 5 b 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 116 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- about our regulations. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it's a little -- my personal feeling is, it's a little presumptuous of us to -- and also I think would it come across to the public as kind of a caaste of time if we approved it, sent it to Austin to be appr~~ved, and then have a public hearing after the fact. I mean, I -- that seems kind of odd to do it that way, to me. That's why I say I'd rather have a public hearing and then send it in. I don't think it's that much of a delay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you would be suggesting that whatever action taken today is a tentative approval of the order which sets up a public hearing prior to sending them to the State? Is that what you're saying? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Today we should approve or disapprove the order and schedule a public hearing. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. That public hearing can be within -- JUDGE TINLEY: Next Monday? COMMISSIONER LETZ: It can be Monday. I think it needs to be a separate -- you know, a little bit separated from the other. io-~~-no 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 117 JUDGE TINLEY: Separately timed. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And after the public hearing, is there a `final vote taken by this Court as to the adoption of these rues? COMMISSTONER LETZ: Yes, and then sent to Austin. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSCN: I don't expect that we're going to hear a lot new about people's opinions on the rules. I feel like I've attended about 15 public hearings over the -- over the last two years, either at the U.G.R.A. or in connection with our State Representative hearings, and we've even had the same discussions in our -- in our meetings, so I don't expect any surprises. So, I'm -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I won't surprise you, but I will reprise it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Some people support change and others don't. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'll make a motion that we set a public hearing -- let me change that. I'll make a motion that we approve the order adopting rules for Kerr County for On-Site Septic -- On-Site Sewage Facilities as presented, and set a public hearing on same for Monday, November 3rd, at 1 o'clock. MS. SOVIL: What time? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you say "approve" 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1S 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 118 or "adopt"? COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1 o'clock. We have to approve it for the public hearing. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I wanted to make sure you didn't say adopt. COMMI:~SIONER LETZ: I think I said "approved" for public hearing. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the Court approve the On-Site Sewage Facilities proposed order, and set a public hearing on the same for 1 p.m. next Monday, which will be the 3rd -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: 3rd. JUDGE TINLEY: -- of November, at 1 p.m. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item is Item 18, consideration and discussion and appropriate action on appointments to the Library Advisory Board, and the methodology in connection with those. Commissioner Williams? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I had a telephone is-z~-co 119 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 message from the City this morning, a little bit of alarm in their voice as to why this was on the agenda. It's on the agenda for a couple very good reasons. First of all, as my memorandum says to the Court, at the request of Judge Tinley, I reviewed that contract earlier this year, and I found some items in there -- some areas in that contract that really need to be addressed. One of them is the manner in which appointments to the Library Board are -- are handled. The caller also sent over this morning -- also sent over a copy of the contract, which I thought, well, perhaps this is something new. It's the same contract, and it was approved back in 1991, as I understand, by Judge Stacy, and nothing has been changed because we haven't negotiated with the City to make changes. Am I correct, Judge? JUDGE TINLEY: Far as I know. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I'm correct. And so Item 4 talks about membership on the Library Advisory Board, and it talks about "whenever possible" -- those two words automatically get my attention, because it's not whenever possible -- "there shall be a minimum of four members who reside outside of Kerrville in Kerr County for appointment." It should guarantee that there are no fewer than that, so I think we need to change these things. We reed to get back and talk with the City about how to make ic-~~-oo 1 "' 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 120 this better. But what really gets my attention is the manner in which it's handled. The City, through the Library Bcard Director, looks at its -- its stack of applications, or lets it be known that there may be some positions open, and they take applications to fill the positions on the Library Advisory Board, including ours. And the fax that came over is in your packet, and it says, "The City Council approved the appointments listed below to the Library Board." Albert Edward Shults to replace Elizabeth Hughes. Mary K. Monty Hayes to replace Gerald Witt. That`s Precinct 2 in Kerr County. And John David Lipscomb to replace Margaret Brown. And Mr. Lipscomb sat through most of our discussion this morning on other matters. I just really believe the Court needs to address the issue of how these appointments are made to joint boards in which we have a financial obligation and responsibility, and this is as good a time as any to do that. I don't have a problem with Mary K. Monty Hayes' appcintment, and I would move for appointment at the proper time. I don`t know the other gentleman. And I dent know that there's any reason why ~Iohn David Lipscomb, who's a City appointment, should even be considered for discussion on Commissioners court. That logic should almost be in the reverse. There shouldn't be a lot of discussion over there about our appointments, but they shouldn't make them far us, and that's the whole crux 121 1 "" 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Couldn't agree with you more. JUDGE TINLEY: How many of those appointments -- what are the total number of that board, Commissioner? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe it's nine. JUDGE TINLEY: Nine? COMMI:~SIONER WILLIAMS: I believe so. JUDGE TINLEY: So, whenever possible, we should at least be in the minority? Is that -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whenever -- JUDGE TINLEY: -- is that what I'm -- is that what I'm reading? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless, of course, there is -- circumstances prevail where a County appointment may have moved up to the chair or something like that, similar to what the Airport Board is. But, yeah, the answer to your question is yes; four, and they get five. So, if we're comfortable with that, okay. If we want to change that, I don't know how you're going to divide one, but we just need to know about these things in advance. We need to advance the names of appointments to the City, and they can concur if they wish. The process ought to start here. JUDGE TINLEY: As to County appointments? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For County io-~~-oo 122 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 appointments. COMM L`3SIONER NICHOLSON: I share Commissioner Williams' concerns, and tied to that is a concern that one of the largest budget items we vote on is our share of the cost of the library. I think it's $397,000 this year. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a tad under $400,000. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And it occurs to me we don't have much input, we don't have any control, and we have very little opportunity for input, and I'd like to see that changed. I don't know if you can change it through havinq the board members who represent the interests of the County more closely, or if we can change it in the budget process itself. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think the contract is available for renegotiation right now. We let the City know in our joint meeting that we were not happy with that and we wanted to address some of these items. That's one of the two items particularly that needs to be addressed, because they are not following through with what -- even the spirit of the existing contract, and that is to have the representative of this Court in on those basic discussions. 'That's never happened, so we need to address it. I think it would be appropriate for the Judge to let them know we wish to renegotiate the contract. In 1G-~'7-00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 123 the meantime, I think we can approve some County appointments. Does anybody know Albert Shults? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good man. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, super. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He has been in this courtroom several times. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just don't know him, so I have no thought. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good guy. And Mrs. -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mary K. Mosty Hayes. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mrs. Hayes is a sister of the former Library Director. So -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keeping the Mosty family involved in the library. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move, Judge -- we could continue to discuss it, but I would move that the appointment of Mary K. Mosty Hayes for a term to expire October 1, 2005, and Albert E. Shults for a term to expire October 1, 2005, be approved by Commissioners Court, and that the Judge initiate correspondence to -- to the Mayor or the City Manager that we wish to rework the l~-~,-o~ i 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 ..-_ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 124 contents of this existing agreement. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. For the record, Commissioner Williams and I, over our joint signatures, served notice on the City, in accordance with Paragraph 9 of the existing contract, that we wished to renegotiate that contract, and we've -- I've not heard a specific response to that notice. And I assume Commissioner Williams hasn't either? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I haven't either. But your letter can certainly prompt them, push them a bit. JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe it needs to go certified. Any further question or discussion on the motion? A11 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Certified letter? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll give you the $3.65; you can carry it down there. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're too funny, JUDGE TINLEY: Next item on the agenda is consideration and discussion and approval of a merit pay io z~ 00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 125 raise policy to guide administration of County's merit pay program. Commissioner Nicholson? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Back in our budget hearings, when we de;~ided to establish a budget for merit pay increases, the Court asked me to prepare a policy/ procedure for administration of that budget, and specifically directed that procedure should include not granting any merit pay increases until April 1, 2004, so we would have time to consider a policy and procedure and implement it in an effective way. So, this is the first step on that. This is a draft merit pay policy for Kerr County for the consideration of this Court. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Was that a motion? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, I thought surely there'd be some discussion. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why I asked. JUDGE TINLEY: You move adoption? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move adoption of this merit pay policy. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'll second it, get the discussion underway. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to adopt the merit pay policy as presented. Questions or discussion? All in :Favor of the motion -- io-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 126 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa, whoa. I wanted to know if the personnel officer of the County was cool with this. MS. NEMEC: I have not seen it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's a little stumbling block. JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe yes, maybe no. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not really. I think it would be wise to let her see it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I think that, Barbara, you ought to have a chance to look at it before we do it. MS. NEMEC: I would like to. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have two and a half minutes. Not really. JUDGE TINLEY: At this juncture, it's the noon hour, and we'll stand in recess and reconvene at 1:30. (Discussion off the record.) (Recess taken from 11:59 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I will call the meeting back to order of the Commissioners Court scheduled for this date. We recessed at lunchtime. It's now just a few minutes after 1:30. We were on Item 19, and we had a motion and second on the table for the approval of the merit pay ~o-,~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,,.._ 2 4 25 127 policy as -- as presented. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to make a couple of comments on the policy as proposed. I think there are two key things to it, and one of them is the definition of meritorious job per.f_ormance. It says that meritorious job performance is accomplishment above and beyond the normal job expectations, which improves work productivity by reducing costs or increasing revenues. Meritorious job performance is measurable, and has a positive impact on budgets. So, kind of turning that around, what meritorious job performance is not is simply doing -- performing the -- the duties on your job description. And then it goes on to say that if the performance is not measurable, then it's not meritorious job performance. Then that's reinforced again under procedures, under Nomination, including a description of the employee's specific accomplishments that are beyond the normal job expectations, and an accounting of the financial impact the accomplishments have on productivity and budgets. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Can you apply that to meritorious job performance on the part of a law enforcement officer? Does the criteria hold? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think if a patrolman or deputy proposed and brought about procedures or processes or methods that were an improvement and resulted 10-27-00 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 128 in the Sheriff's Department being able to accomplish its mission better, that that would be an example of meritorious job performance. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about performance on duty which was meritorious, extraordinary, above that which was in the line of duty, as opposed to the administrative side? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May have a hard time doing an accounting of financial impact. JUDGE TINLEY: You're speaking of something more in the nature of some sort of heroic action, Carnegie Foundation nomination or something of that -- COMMISSIONER WII~I~IAMS: Yeah. I guess what I want to make certain is that -- that we don't -- by reason of this language, or the narrow window, we don't foreclose meritorious consideration for law enforcement officers. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think your point's a good one. As this is written, it would be easier for a Sheriff's Department clerical or administrative person to get an award than it would for an officer. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the line of duty. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We probably need to fix this loophole. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I don't have a suggestion how to do that, though. So -- to-~~-on 129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I guess a similar comment, or same line anyway, is that it seems that there are certain positions in the county that lend themselves a lot -- that can qualify for a merit over other positions a lot easier. I mean, I guess there's ways anyone could, but in certain -- like, if you are in a situation where you deal with emergency-type settings -- and I'm thinking of Road and Bridge to start with -- like, you know, because of floods and ice storms and things like that, they have an opportunity to really go out and go the extra mile, where someone who's, you know, doing license plate renewals doesn't have as much of an opportunity to, because -- because, I mean, they're -- you know, they -- it's just not much opportunity there, the way I see it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just wondering how you -- you know, how you balance that so that you don't, you know, tilt the scales on this -- on the merit increases toward certain departments that are more able to, you know, have glamorous type, I guess, examples of above and beyond the work. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we probably need to address the heroic activity, like Road and Bridge and officers. I'm guessing, though, that it might be easy for somebody that is in the license department over there io-~~-oo 130 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to -- to conceive of ways to do that work more efficiently. They might observe that there are different cycles in there, and some employees are not as occupied at certain times of the month as others, and rearrange the work or do those sorts of things to improve productivity. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I might -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's possible. COMMISSIONER LETZ: My other comment is that the -- I'm willing to go along with something to see how it works, though I'm not 100 percent, you know, convinced it's a great idea. But, you know, I'm willing to give it a good shot. I'm a little concerned about the timing. If we have this meritorious thing set up in the fall -- or February 1, nominations are due in, what about people that do something that needs recognition, you know, in May? Or do they have to wait until the following February, so that -- is it an annual cycle that goes February to February? Is that what we're looking at? Or do we do it again during the budget process for the people that do it after the February 1 deadline? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't want to presume to answer for Dave, but I think in our budget discussions, we thought about it being annual. So, if the activity came after we did the review, then that individual would have to wait till the next review. I think that's how io-z.-oo 131 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I remember it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We got to this by some sort of a compromise, I think. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think I envisioned that somebody -- some supervisor writes it up and brings it to us and we act on it, but there were some concerns about the budgeting process, and that's how we landed on the April 1 date, I think. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just think it needs to be clear in here what the period is so that people that, you know, do something short, let's say -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you could set it up on the basis o:E a time period. I'm only using an example of a 10-month time frame in which -- which employees' activities could be considered. The department head writes them up; in the 11th month, the Commissioners approve them; in the 12th month, the cycle starts all over again, something like that. And I didn't fix any months to it, 'cause I hadn't thought it out. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A principle of merit pay is -- I'm not sure we can adhere to this -- is that the motivational value and the reinforcement value of it is stronger when you acknowledge and reward the performance close to the performance. You know, ideally, a supervisor io-~~-oo 132 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would have a bag of money, and if somebody does something right, they say, "Here's some money." But that's -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be careful. There are some supervisors who might like that idea. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm -- from what you just said, it came to mind -- I probably shouldn't even bring it up -- is maybe we should do it quarterly. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quarterly. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's an ongoing process throughout the year. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It still needs to be written in here. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, whatever we do needs to be clearly written so we have something to fall back on for guidance. But these are some thoughts on -- and I appreciate you taking a stab at coming up with a policy, and it's not easy to write something like that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Once a quarter might be appropriate. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why don't we table it, and I'll write some different language that deals with the, quote, heroic -- that's not exactly the proper term for it. The extraordinary, one-time, out-of-the-ordinary thing. is-~,-oo 133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And deal with the timing thing, and see if something like a quarterly -- three or four times a year award period might be appropriate. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did the personnel officer have any thoughts? MS. NEMEC: I did. May I address them at this time? Under Definitions, for employee, it says it's excluding elected officials and department heads. I was under the impression, when we were talking about this, that this was going to include department heads. This last time that elected officials received a -- a raise, the department heads did not, and I think there was some discussion that they're more of an employee-type position than -- than elected officials, and they would be treated as that in the merit policy. That's one of my questions I have. COMMISSIUNER BALDWIN: Good question. MS. NEMEC: When are they going to be evaluated for raises? We bring up elected officials at a certain time, and then now we're bringing up employees. Where are the department heads falling in all this? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Frankly; I think the only exclusion would be elected officials. MS. NEMEC: I would think so too. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good idea. io-^~-oo 134 1 2 3 4 5 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. NEMEC: My other question is under Procedures, under Nomination, it says nominations are confidential. I really feel that the nominations should be put ir. their personnel file; therefore, they would be open records and they would be open to the public. Or if anyone came and requested to see the nominations that were turned in for merit increases, I would think that those would be open, not confidential. Anytime you're going to disburse money to someone, if the public wants to see the background as to why, I think we need to be able to show that to them. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand your point, Barbara, but I also understand the point that the Commissioner was trying to make here, that up to a certain point, they should be confidential. If a department head is going to recognize an employee for meritorious activity, then he's going to write that up. At that point, and up through and including Commissioners Court's action on it, which would probably be in executive session, would be confidential. Once it goes into the personnel file and you take action on it -- the Court takes action on it, absolutely, I think you're correct. But I think that's kind of a case of both. MS. NEMEC: Okay. I just -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My intent was that lo-^_~-oo 135 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 r... 2 4 25 denied nominations would be confidential. 'Cause -- MS. NEMEC: Well, if an employee comes to me, or any -- if anybody comes to me and wants to know -- to see a file, why the increase was denied, I can't keep that from COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I mean, I think -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Dealing with other agencies, what I've seen is that that's -- that situation would be covered in executive session, and the nominations that were denied would be sealed and not available to the general public. COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a -- I think we have to really refer to the County Attorney, 'cause I think it's an issue as to whether -- what -- you know, some records can be confidential, some can't. It's just whatever the law requires. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, she's saying that once -- once it goes in -- it needs to go into the personnel file, and once it goes in there, then it's wide-open. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but do the nominations go in, or the -- or the approval of the nominations go in? That's, I think -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with the io-~~-oo 136 1 ~^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Commissioner on that. MS. NEMEC: You know, just something to consider and look into. Also, under Notification, "Commissioners Court will notify supervisors of approved nominations." If you could insert there, just to make sure that we get word of .it, supervisors and the Personnel Department or County Treasurer, whichever you want to put. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. MS. NEMEC: And, under Communication, again, there it says, "Merit Pay Awards. Name of awardees and the basis of the award will be announced." I think there needs to be something in there that says that those that were not awarded an increase, that you will also name those and explain to the elected official or department head who presented those nominations as to why they were not awarded. And that's all I have. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's where the war begins. It's the beginning of the war. MS. NEMEC: I mean, if -- you know, and I'm speaking for myself, and I'm sure I speak for everybody else when I say if -- if I present a nomination to you all, and -- and my employee does not -- is not granted a merit increase, I want to know why, and I'm sure everybody else is going to want to know that. So, I think there has to be something in here related to that. io-~~-oo 137 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 29 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I agree, the supervisor needs to know. Just the whole workforce doesn't need to know. What you -- what you get into there is what's sometimes referred to as malicious implementation, that those who may not like the policy will -- will administer it in a way that makes it look bad. JUDGE TINLEY: You had offered a motion previously. Are you withdrawing that motion? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll withdraw that motion. JUDGE TINLEY: And you had seconded that. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll withdraw it. JUDGE TINLEY: Satisfactory with you? Any further discussion on this item? MR. MOTLEY: I have just a point. It seems to me like that somebody is denied -- if some person that`s nominated for a raise under this program is denied the raise, it could almost be assumed that somebody else who was nominated from, that department or other department was more meritorious or more deserving of the merit raise. I don't know if you'd -- I don't know if you have to go back and say, "Well, this one didn't get it because this one did," or something like that. I mean, you're going to choose the one -- or the people that are most deserving. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're only going to 10-~~-C~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ~, 25 138 choose those that the supervisor or department head nominates, or the elected official nominates. MR. MOTLEY: No. No, for the pool of people to consider from, but the ones who get it would seem to be the ones who are determined to be the most meritorious as presented. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. MR. MOTLEY: And the ones who don`t get it would be, maybe, "Close, but no cigar," so to speak. I don't know. I'm just -- I'm not sure you have to go through every one of the files and say, "You didn't get it because Buster did," or -- or whatever. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that goes back to what Commissioner Nicholson was saying; that if you handle these in executive session, the declinations are sealed, and that's the end of it. MR. Mc~TLEY: The open records -- I haven't looked specifically at this issue, but I have done some looking at personnel files, and personnel files are, generally speaking, open records. And the documents -- documents are what we're talking about for open records, and not anything short of a document, but a document would normally -- especially pertaining to pay, would be an open record, unless it covers a sensitive item such as Social Security number, homf~ phone, home address, information to-~~-no 139 1 '- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 relating to or identifying the person has a family. Those items are generally, you know, excepted from disclosure. But I haven't looked specifically at this. I'm saying, generally speaking, I'm not sure of an exception that would prohibit those documents from being examined before the final decisicn is made and a copy of the recommendation or the unsuccessful recommendation is put in their file. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until the Court acts on it, there is no document in the personnel file. It's merely -- MR. MOTLEY: Not in the personnel file? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- merely the Court recommending -- MR. MOTLEY: There would be documents generated by the department head. That would probably be the property of the Commissioners Court, so I think they may be subject to Open Records. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, we`ve got -- we need the answer to that. MR. MOTLEY: As I say, I haven't specifically looked for other exceptions, but I'm -- I'm speaking in generalities now. And I think Barbara had said it well by saying it's just something that needs further study, which we'll be happy to do. MS. SOVIL: You also need to consider that in io-_~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 140 personnel -- in executive session, under personnel, the employee that's being discussed has a right to either be in there or have it discussed in open session. You can't summarily discuss an employee without the employee knowing about it, without having an opportunity to pull it out. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you check on that too, David? MR. MOTLEY: Right. And one other thing along those lines. Every employee has a special granted right for access to their own personnel files, through themselves and through an attorney. They can look at their own files. So -- MS. SOVIL: They also have access to that portion of the executive session records that discusses them. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, the only other thought I had was -- my mind goes to the administrative assistant that works for this Commissioners Court, that works for five redneck men. We need to have a category here for hazardous pay. Would you consider that? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, we can put that in. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. COMMI:~SIONER NICHOLSON: Just for Thea. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. io-~~-oo 1 '- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,-. 2 4 25 141 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further in connection with that item? We'll move on to Item 20, consider and discuss authorizing American Legion Post 208 to utilize the courthouse grounds and facilities for annual Veteran's Day ceremony, and prier to and subsequent to the ceremony, for setup and take-down of appropriate equipment. COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to approve the agenda item. Any further question or discussion? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question, Judge. In the letter to you from Mr. Arrendell -- JUDGE TINLEY: Right. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the last paragraph there, is -- it says that restrooms on the Sidney Baker side of the courthouse be open and available. JUDGE TINLEY: We had a hand go up right back here. There's the man. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry. MR. HOLEKAMP: What's the date? JUDGE TINLEY: The 10th. Monday, the 10th. MR. HOLEKAMP: Monday, the 10th? JUDGE TTNLEY: Mm-hmm. 11 a.m. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a -- was -- we lc-~,-~~ 142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have a second, don't we? JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I seconded. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question I have is going back to an e-mail I got regarding the date of the holiday from -- I think it Linda Uecker. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was. We all got it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that we're -- we're observing the holiday, I mean, on Monday, which I thought was generally done now, and then there -- but her e-mail says that most other entities were observing it on the 11th, the actual day. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is one -- I saw Linda out at the Ag Barn out there Friday night -- or Thursday night in the judging, and we talked about this, 'cause she wanted to know whether or not we got her e-mail. This is one of the -- one of the holidays that is the exception to the Monday governmental "make everything nice on Monday" holiday rule, because it's supposed to be the 11th day -- the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month, no matter when it falls. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But the reason I brought it up, it's .referred to here as Monday being a national holiday, which my question is, is Monday a national ~o-~~-oo 1 " 2 3 4 5 E 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 .,.., 2 4 25 143 holiday? It's a County holiday, but not a national holiday. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a national holiday. MS. NEMEC: The reason we did that is because -- because K.I.S.D. is observing it on Monday, and so we decided we -- there was discussion on that, that we would go with the holiday that the school was observing. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. MS. NEMEC: And I called Judge Tinley to doublecheck on that, 'cause there was some question after the holiday schedule had been put out, and that's the reason. JUDGE TINLEY: The one that was adopted by the Court. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was. JUDGE TINLEY: We had, I think, two different holiday schedules that we were looking at at the time that it was approved, right at the tail end of the budget process, as I recall. The one that was selected included this particular holiday for Monday, the 10th. MS. NEMEC: And on that comparison, I had that it was a federal holiday on the 11th, but yet K.I.S.D. had it on the 10th, so it was just a decision that needed to be made, and that was the decision that was made. io-~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 144 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we are talking about -- Glenn, is the Maintenance Department possibly paying overtime to someone for two hours? Is that what we're talking about? JUDGE TINLEY: Glenn? MR. HCLEKAMP: No, I'll come in and it won't cost you anything. MS. NEMEC: Just remember that when you're doing the merit evaluation. (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It has an impact on the budget, too. MR. HOLEKAMP: What are the times? I don't JUDGE TINLEY: 11 a.m. on the 10th. COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11 a.m. I wish -- you know, and I voted on the holiday schedule, and I wish I'd -- not frequently, but occasionally I wish I would think things through more. I really think this is a holiday that should be held on the actual day, not on Monday. And I don't -- you know. JUDGE TINLEY: At the time that Ms. Uecker brought it to my attf~ntion about the hiatus with other governmental entities, as I recall, it was last Thursday. And, of course, our agenda had already been posted. And, you know, I told her if there were going to be any change, ~o-~~-oo 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 145 the change needed to be made by the Court, since it's been adopted by the Court, and there wasn't going to be another meeting till after this particular holiday. And, as a matter of fact, that it would be on the 11th that we would hold the meeting. So, I assumed that was pretty much the end of it, since there wasn't time to really address it. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Without taking the holiday, we'll be meeting on the holiday. We meet on the 11th, is our next Commissioners Court? JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, we will be meeting on Tuesday, the 11th. We surely will. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Make a note to get that right next year. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Someone's upset about it out there, I would assume. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May have been some Christmas decorations. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, falling down. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bundle of lights iC-2~-00 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 146 coming down on your head. JUDGE TiNLEY: Next item on the agenda, Item 21. I've been asked to pass that item, since there's nothing to consider at this time. Next item is 22, consider and discuss voting on behalf of the -- of Kerr County for the Board of Directors for the Kerr Central Appraisal District. The information in your book indicates who's been nominated for the Board of Directors, and it's -- I believe we've also got the number of votes allocated to each. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we vote 907 votes for Paula Rector. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that Kerr County cast all of its votes for the Board of Directors for the KCAD District Board, all of its votes being 907, for Paula Rector. Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got some discussion. The way this works, this means that the City of Ingram and Divide ISD, maybe others, don't have a chance of getting their nominations -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't have any chance. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all. That's my only question. 1~-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 1~ 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 147 JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or comment? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Next item, consider and discuss approving contract between Kerr County and the following volunteer fire departments and authorize County Judge to sign the same? Tierra Linda V.F.D., Turtle Creek V.F.D., Elm Pass V.F.D., and Divide V.F.D. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the approval of the ~~ontracts and authorize County Judge to sign the same. Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Are you ready to go back to the other items now, or do you want to go on with the bills and so forth? COMMISSIUNER WILLIAMS: Why don't we clean up io-~~-oo 1 '-` 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 -- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 148 JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we clean up this outstanding item? JUDGE TINLEY: We've got several of them. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh. JUDGE TINLEY: Let me first go back to -- do we have anything further on -- on Item 12, the location? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: Thought we would. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I visited with Mr. Etter, and told -- asked him -- well, I guess two parts of it. The other one was really more related to Item 13. But I asked that, if the current employees at U.G.R.A. were willing to serve -- to work for the County on a contract basis for from a couple of days to a week or so, could those -- well, small steps. Could that current staff continue to use the U.G.R.A. office space? And the answer was yes. The -- and I limited it just really for a couple of days, until we made the decision on hiring, because the difference -- the question -- ar.d it wasn't no, that we can't after that, but if we choose not to hire some or all or whatever of the current staff, I think the feeling that I had was that they were not real comfortable at having new people moving into that office space for a short period of time. So, there was kind of -- it caas -- you know, it's fine for probably two or l:,-~ ~-,, ,, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 149 three days for the current staff to continue to use that space, assuming we can work out a contract arrangement with the current staff. And I've not heard back from all of the current staff on that point. I have heard back from Stuart. Stuart said that he would be willing to do it, but noting that because of his new child, that the time would be a little bit structured. And I just -- I passed on to the current staff that -- as to the amount we would pay would be whatever their gross salary is, put it down to a per-day -- per-day or a per-hour basis, without any deductions; that there would be no benefits of any type associated with that, just purely be a contract basis. But, like I say, I've only heard back from Stuart definitely. He would be willing to do that. JUDGE TINLEY: If we were to deem it appropriate to do it for more than a few days, but continue to use those same individuals on a contract temporary basis, say, for a period of maybe up to two weeks, since there would be no change of -- of personnel who would be on their premises, did you inquire of Mr. Etter whether -- did the important thing seem to be who it was, rather than the ]ength of time? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was a combination of him thinking through -- I mean, very quickly giving me an answer and thinking through the ramifications to ~~ 00 150 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 `.,, 2 4 25 of what all this means. And that's -- and what it all means is going to have some basis as to who we hire. So, the answer is yes, that had some bearing on it. They're trying to accommodate -- they understand the situation, but they don't want to get -- make a situation -- get into an awkward situation themselves, either. So, he asked that we come back and revisit with him after we make our hiring decisions. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Judge, I think probably helpful information to that question is, both Janet Robinson and Greg Etter have told us repeatedly that they're not going to do -- do something to let this drop between the cracks; they're going to work with us, cooperate with us to make sure the transition is successful. So, be my guess that if we needed more than a few days, that they'd be amenable to that, so long as it wasn't new people. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. That's kind of, I think, the feeling that I have. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would seem to me -- JUDGE TINLEY: So long as -- COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not new people. When you bring new people in, it changes the mix from their standpoint. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the first order 10-27-GO 151 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of business would be for us to have personal service contracts for the -- with people holding those existing positions, under whatever terms? COMMISSIONER LETZ: If they choose to -- COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- accept the, I guess -- sort of the quasi-offer that I made. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: On behalf of you. So, I think -- I mean, I think the answer is that we're having to put this on the agenda again for next week, but for the time being, Monday-Tuesday, I think we will have -- certainly have some staff, Stuart being one. Stuart's agreed to using that current office space. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't we have to take some kind of an action that would authorize the Court's subcommittee to finalize personal service agreements with certain of those personnel for this period of time? COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think so, but I think it's under Agenda Item 1.13. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, wherever it is. COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think -- so I think, on the -- on 1.12, I'll just make a motion that the O.S.S.F. subcommittee, being Commissioner Nicholson and myself, work out arrangements to continue to use the office ~o _ -on 152 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 space at U.G.R.A. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until? COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the first part of the week of November 3rd. JUDGE TINLEY: I don't want you to be limited to that. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, okay. JUDGE TINLEY: Open-ended as possible. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Up to two weeks. COMMISSIONER LETZ: For up to two weeks. JUDGE TINLEY: Because I -- Glenn's response a while ago is, if everything falls into place. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. JUDGE TINLEY: You know. And Murphy's Law commonly prevails in construction projects, as I'm sure you're aware of as well as anybody. I think I'd like to give us as much latitude as possible, because of whatever may strike us in all respects, be it with regard to -- to space, with regard to those personal service contracts, having them negotiated on an hourly or daily basis, with us having the ability to -- you know, not limit us to the number of days, necessarily. Now, maybe you want to cap it at not more than 15 days or something like that, but just to give us as much latitude as possible, because we've got a io-~~-oo 153 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 construction project with all that goes into it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I'll just make a motion to work out an arrangement with U.G.R.A. to use their office space for up to November 15th. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the committee be authorized to attempt to work out an arrangement with the U.G.R.A. to utilize their office space for O.S.S.F. activities and/or floodplain, I assume you're talking about also? No? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not. JUDGE TINLEY: No. O.S.S.F., not proceeding beyond November 15th. Any further question or discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only question I have, does this qualify as above-and-beyond service that Commissioner Nicholson and I are doing? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Get the County Judge to write you up. JUDGE TINLEY: I'm working on it right now. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought so. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or comments? Discussion? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That may come under hazardous pay, if I can get that put in there. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. io-~~-oo 154 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 JUDGE TINLEY: We got to get the policy in place first. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. The next item that we got is 13, going back to consideration and discussion of the transition schedule for the transfer of the O.S.S.F. program from U.G.R.A, to Kerr County. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I can't remember why this is a carry-over item. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's kind of transition items, but I'm not sure we can act on them the way we need to act on them to do that item. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, based on what we just did. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can act on it on 1.15 -- by revisiting 1.15. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is it we want 23 t to do? 24 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think we need to do a couple things. We need to authorize -- I guess it's In-~;-oo 155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,..., 2 4 25 going to be Commissioner Nicholson and myself, to work out a contract arrangement -- MS. SOVIL: Be a transition schedule. COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- if possible. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can tie that thought, personal service contracts for a period not to exceed, into i.15 and tack it onto what you've already done, which was setting up the procedure for evaluations. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a motion. JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's right. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll move it. JUDGE TINLEY: Let me go ahead and call 15 again. We'll reconsider consideration and discussion of process for hiring Environmental Health Department personnel, in addition to the other items on the table. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Motion? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I would move that the Court authorize the subcommittee for Environmental Health purposes to negotiate and enter into personal service contracts with employees who currently hold such jobs for a period of time not to exceed two weeks, and that the previously approved truing process likewise be included -- reiterated, whatever. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do I hear a second? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. io-~~-oo 156 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions or comments? All in -- all in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have one other item on this that we need to address. After a visit with Ken Graber a few minutes ago, we need to appoint a D.R. to be able to -- we -- we are the authorized agent, but we are appointing a -- I'm not -- in my mind, it's not a different D.R., but if we go with Stuart, we have to -- you know, we need to appoint a D.R. during this interim period. So -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably true, yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can do that and notify them, and that keeps everyone in full compliance, and no one in the county can complain that we're doing something without the right authority, because we're -- we have someone who's qualified as a D.R. So, I think we need to make -- I'll make a motion that, in the personal service contract with Mr. Barron, assuming we can negotiate such contract, it will also include remaining as the Designated Representative for Kerr County. io-~;-oo 157 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ,,..1 2 4 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that, in the personal service contract to be negotiated with Mr. Stuart Barron, if any, that he be designated as the Designated Representative of Kerr County for O.S.S.F. purposes. Any further questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other comment is, we're also -- in case there's a problem with that, we're in the process of getting a list of other designated representatives in Kerr County, because we have to have one, and T.C.E.Q. will help; they're working with us on that. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hard. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We've now got to Item 16 we're going to revisit, the policy as redrafted concerning the authority of the Manager/Field Representative of Kerr County Environmental Health Department, redress of grievance progress, organizational relationship of the Manager and his or her staff with Commissioners Court. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For you to look at. to-~~-oc 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ._., 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 ..--_ 2 4 2 5. 158 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You've got in front of you a redrafted policy, and Commissioner Williams has made another suggested change, which seems appropriate to me. Would you read that, Jonathan? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Manager of the Environmental Health Department. shall advise the Commissioner in whose precinct dispute arises and shall schedule the grievance to be heard in a regular or special meeting of the Commissioners Court. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can I have it back? I move that we approve the new policy as -- as written, and as with the change proposed by Commissioner Williams. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the -- that the policy, as redrafted and presented, be approved. Any further question or discussion? If not, all in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A question just popped in my mind. When he notifies the respective Commissioner, ,o-~~-oo 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 r. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 159 that doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be done in writing; just by phone call would be fine. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just tell us so you're not blindsided with something. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he wants to put it in writing to protect himself, that's better. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll go back and revisit Item 17, consider and discuss, approve an order adopting rules of Kerr County, Texas for On-Site Sewage Facilities and authorize the County Judge to submit the proposed rules to the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality for approval, and setting public hearing on the same if necessary. MS. SOVIL: Y'all did that, Judge. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We took care of that. MS. SOVIL: Commissioner Letz -- it's set for a public hearing at 1 o'clock on Monday. JUDGE TINLEY: I apologize. I thought there were some things hanging loose on that, about the chicken and the eqq aspects of it. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- well, there are, but we're just proceeding. JUDGE TINLEY: All right, good enough. Okay. I don't know where you gentlemen are, but I'm over to io-~~-no 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ---- 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 160 Executive Session. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you. JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody got anything to do in Executive Session? A11 right. We'll blow by that, and let's go to the approval agenda. Time to pay the bills, gentlemen. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. Don't anybody move. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I move we pay the bills. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that we pay the bids. I have one question. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As I. JUDGE TINLEY: Page 8. Constable Precinct 1, Constable Precinct 3. We authorized both of them to get radios in the last budget. The number given was $600. We got the same kind of radio. Precinct 1 indicates it's got a microphone with it. Precinct 3 does not indicate it has a microphone. Is that the difference? MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If it doesn't, how's he going to speak? Who's going to hear him? MR. TOMLINSON: I imagine -- I don't know. I can just look at the bill. .o-~-oo 161 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: If not, how come Precinct 3 constable can buy the same radio for $578 that cost $639.50 in Precinct 1? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good question. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Precinct 1's a high-dollar area. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, we're better. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: High-maintenance, Precinct 1. (Discussion off the record.) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She seems to think that it has something to do with the clip-on -- MS. LAVENDER: The clip-on microphone that attaches. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't think I was going to have to break out the bills. My personal stash. JUDGE TINLEY: 5496 and 5501. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure both of these items have been purchased, and probably are here and we own them. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much did we authorize them to spend? ~o-~~-oo 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 162 JUDGE TINLEY: $600. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And one constable spent $640 and went over the amount that this Commissioners Court authorized? JUDGE TINLEY: In your precinct, as I recall. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. I was trying to avoid that kind of conversation. MR. TOMLINSON: One does have a lapel mic, and the other one doesn't. JUDGE TINLEY: The other one doesn't. That is the difference. MR. TOMLINSON $578. Because the base price is COMMISSIONER LETZ: That`s what my constable spent. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let`s don't go there. JUDGE TINLEY: $578. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think that we should spend over $600. Not $639.50. $600. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm right. COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to start -- we said we weze going to start holding them to it, follow the budget. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. 163 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Absolutely. I will not vote for $639.50. JUDGE TINLEY: There's a motion on the table to pay the bills. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'll withdraw it. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we just amend it to exclude that particular one, or cap it at $600? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just pay the $600. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somebody else needs to come up with $39.50. MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not going to come up with $39.50. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. But the elected -- MR. TOMLINSON: It will be one of those cold days if I do. JUDGE TINLEY: You think it was chilly this morning? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but that elected official that has spent more than we authorized him to spend can come up with it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or you could combine the expenditure of both of them and average them, and he 10-~7-00 164 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 only has to spend $17.50 more. Whichever. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN; Judge, $600 -- let's put -- let's change that to $600 so we can pay the bill. JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the motion's been withdrawn. Do you want to move to pay the bills, with the exception of that item? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not until I get my question answered. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 15. MR. TOMLINSON: What's the final on this? COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to get to it in just a minute. MR. TOMLINSON: Oh. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's our new motto: "Don't try this at home. We're experts." (Laughter.) COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we still have this service at Ingram Dam? Is this around-the-year service now? COMMISSIONER LETZ: Port-a-pottys. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think they're supposed to be continued till the end of September. MR. TOMLINSON: What page are you on? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 15. i,-z~-oo 165 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER NICHCLSCN: Think it's supposed to have been discontinued the end of September. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is probably the final bill right here. JUDGE TINLEY: Check it next time. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to watch it next time, those port-a-pottys out at Ingram Dam. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't go driving out there looking at my port-a-pottys. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You ought to check and see he's not using them. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we amend these bills, 10-551-499, to read $600 even. And, with that, I move to pay the bills. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that -- to pay the bills, with the exception of the amount to be charged to Account Number 10-551-499 be reduced to $600 from $639.50. Is that Correct? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, it is. JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions or discussion? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. My question -- I don't recall ever doing this before. What happens, Barbara? MS. NEMEC: We're going to have to void -- io-~~-no 166 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Void a check. MS. NEMEC: -- a check and reissue for the amount that you approved. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. But that's it, and you don't mind doing that, do you? MS. NEMEC: Well, I don't like it, but I'll do it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't ask you if you liked it. You don't mind? MS. NEMEC: I don't mind. I don't like it, but I don't mind. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're exited about it, aren't you? MS. NEMEC: I'll be happy to do it. I don't have anything to do this afternoon. JUDGE TINLEY: A new experience. Happy to participate. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is a new experience. JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) io-~,-cn 167 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have any budget amendments? Any late bills? MR. TOMLINSON: I have three. One's to Lone Star Products, Inc., for $20. It's a registration fee for Leonard Odom for a workshop. JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only one? MR. TOMLINSON: No. Another one is to Ford Motor Credit. It's for $:35,997.02. It's for the initial payment on the -- the '04 patrol cars. JUDGE TINLEY: That's four of them? MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. And, finally, one to me for $264.42 for lodging at a conference I just went to. JUDGE TINLEY: May have a hard time getting that one included. MR. TOMLINSON: I thought I got a good deal, $78 a day. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For food? MR. TOMLINSON: No, this is just lodging. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you fill out one of your little forms? MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is that form? MR. TOMLINSON: You've already approved it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. MS. SOVIL: We approved one today. io-~,-~~ 168 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1? 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the late bills. (Discussion off the record.) JUDGE TINLEY: Are we talking about hand checks too? MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Including hand checks. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait just a second. What are you saying? MS. SOVIL: He doesn't know about the new form you approved today. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Tommy, you probably have a thrashing coming. Did you use the new form? MR. TOMLINSON: No. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're okay, 'cause we just approved it today. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's not here; give us the money back. JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion to authorize payment of the late bills and issuance of hand checks. Do I hear a second? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second. JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. is-_ ,-,,;~ 169 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Any question or discussion? All in favor of the motion to authorize the late payment of Lone Star Rentals, $20; Ford Motor Credit Corporation, $35,997.02; and Tommy Tomlinson, $264.42, and issuance of hand checks accordingly, signify by raising your right hand. (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, before you move -- before the Auditor leaves, would somebody please explain to me, so I can explain it to my Justice of the Peace, the action of the Court at the last meeting, Court Order Number 28365, in which the Court deleted the -- or transferred, I'm not sure which, $3,334 in the Justice of the Peace's in Precinr_ts 2, 3, and 4, and put it into Mental Health? Could somebody just enlighten me as to what that's all about so that I car. enlighten an irate judge? MR. TOMLINSON: I visited with the Judge today. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. MR. TCMLINSON: I think we're okay. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're okay? MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't need to stir 1n-27 00 1 -- 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 170 the pot? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON hear it, for another irate judge. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: too. I'd still like to I figured you got it MR. TOMLINSON: The Treasurer and I visited about this after lunch, and that's where I was when one of my employees was trying to find me. But I think the -- what the Court did was amend the budget according to the court order that was passed in the budget workshop; namely, that -- that $6,000 be added to the Mental Health line item in the County Court budget. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six? JUDGE TINLEY: Added 10. MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, $16,000. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Six what? JUDGE TINLEY: Added 10 to the existing 6. MR. TOMLINSON: Added $10,000 to the existing $6, 000. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. MR. TOMLINSON: With the understanding that -- that the total salary for each Justice remained the same. In other words, we did an amendment to remove $3,333 from the salary line item in the Justice of the Peace budget, and moved it to the Mental Health line item in the io _,-oo 1 ^ 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 i1 i2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 171 County Court budget. That reflects what actually happened in the budget workshop. The issue was with -- you know, after that fact was that, prior to today, the judges were paid on a quarterly basis on the -- based on the month that they served at the State Hospital. What happened was that, for two months, the reduction in -- in the monthly salary, of their regular salary that came out of their budget was reduced almost $250 a month, so that was a significant reduction in their cash flow on a monthly basis. And, like all of us in here, we have monthly obligations that -- you know, that we have to meet, and it put them in a hardship by causing, you know, almost 12 percent of their income to come every four months. So, the Treasurer and I decided that maybe it would be better if we paid those justices the same each paycheck, rather than pay the mental health hearings on a quarterly basis. That would -- that would even out their -- their monthly revenue. I don't -- we didn't see any reason, you know, not to do it otherwise. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bottom line -- JUDGE TINLEY: Problem's solved. MR. TOMLINSON: Bottom line, the problem is solved. I mean, the bottom line is that they won't see a difference in the amount of their check. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Their annual compensation is unchanged. to-~~-oo 1 ^ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 172 JUDGE TINLEY: Their annual income is unchanged. And apparently what happened was, I was not aware of -- of the -- of the cash flow, how that was affected. I assumed it had been leveled out, because it was ordered not to be increased, but not to be decreased, so I assumed it was level. Apparently, the Treasurer had been paying the mental health for years, unbeknownst to me, but had only been paying it to the particular J.P. during the months in which they heard these cases, rather than spreading it out over the whole year. And when their salary was reduced and their Mental Health portion was increased by a corresponding amount, they had four real fat months and eight kind of lean months. So, what they've done is they've leveled this thing out, since the policy is not any more, but not any less, se that their cash flow is now level. Is that correct? MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. JUDGE TINLEY: That's what they were seeking. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if I call my J.P. today, I'm not going to get an earful, right? COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might. MR. TOMLINSON: Can't guarantee that. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Tommy, one more time. MR. TOMLINSON: Not because of that. 173 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 ~2 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: These three J.P.'s that participate in these mental health hearings, they did get a paycheck or two or three that was less than it would have been had we evened it out over the year? MR. TOMLINSON: One of them did. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One of them did? MR. TOMLINSON: The Justice of the Peace 4 was paid this month for the mental health hearings. The other two were not. So, we will adjust two J.P.'s the same, and J.P. 4 slightly different to -- to offset the amount that he's already been paid. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Now, this J.P. 4, he's a large man. I'm going to explain this to him. MR. TOMLINSON: We'll make him happy. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we going to be taking some money ba~:k out of -- MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, we will not do that. JUDGE TINLEY: He's the one that -- that was getting fat this month. He's the one that was getting more. MR. TOMLINSON: Right, that's correct, actually was. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, now that you've explained it, though, their -- the grievance has more legitimacy, in my mind, than, it did from what I understood before. We -- we altered the way we were paying them, and io-z~-no 174 r''~ r"'~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we didn't give them advance notice of that. MR. TOMLINSON: No. We've always paid them quarterly for -- for mental health. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. MS. NEMEC: They didn't give us notice to do it different -- MR. TOMLINSON: No. MS. NEMEC: -- is what the problem is. So, we kept doing it just the way it's always been done. JUDGE TINLEY: And I didn't know how it was paid. I assumed it was just level throughout the year, but it obviously wasn't. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't want to MS. NEMEC: 'Cause what happens is, if a J.P. is scheduled for a certain month and -- and, for whatever reason, that J.P. can't make it for that month, then they rotate, and then sometimes you end up not working your full months that you're scheduled to. And, if that happens, that's another issue we're going to have to deal with at that time. But we just thought we'll cross that when we get to it, if that happens. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But, in the instant case, as far as J.P. 4 is concerned, he had been getting paid every four months for this, and his check so far in ,yo-2~-00 176 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 --~ 1 3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign. (No response.) JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I sat in there last week and read minutes till I was cross-eyed. Why is it we don't have minutes? MS. SOVIL: 'Cause they're the first of the month. MS. ALFORD: Only the first of the month. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, we do it -- okay. I see what you're saying. So, we'll have a -- a pile of them at the first of the month. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. MS. SOVIL: But we leave that on there in case we missed the minutes for some reason. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Very good. JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you need edification about today? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. I'm still -- still a little dinged over the Christmas decorations. JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a report on those that you'd like to render at this time? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And J.P. sa]ariPS_ No, it's going to take me a couple days to get over it. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it help if we 10-~?-GO 177 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1S 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 27 22 23 24 25 put a mustache on the snowman out there, make him look like you? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're going to build a sign to put on that snowman, circle with a slash through it. JUDGE TINLEY: Any reports from any of the Commissioners? From the elected officials or department heads? Boards? Commissions? Committees? Wait a minute, the Auditor? MR. TOMLINSON: Just a comment. On -- I know you're getting ready to -- to do a contract with -- a personal service contract with individuals for -- for the transition, and one thing I want you to keep in mind is -- is the collection process. I don't know if -- if we want to have a contractor collecting funds for Kerr County. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Had to bring that up. Good point, thank you COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there`s a bonding problem, right? MR. TOMLINSON: We have a bonding problem. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Talking about a personnel agency? COMMISSIONER LETZ: He means contracting people to take -- like, that collect the fees, and we contract with U.G.R.A. staff. All of a sudden, they're individuals who aren't bonded, because the agency's bonded, to-~,-~~ 178 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not the individuals, probably. MR. TOMLINSON: Right, yeah. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe the County Attorney can work that out for us. COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be able to get a deal with -- let U.G.R.A. collect the fees for us, 'cause they're bonded. Thank you. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This doesn't get easier, does it? JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports to come before the Court? Any further business to come before the Court? If not, I'll declare the meeting adjourned. We now have a workshop. COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we take five minutes? JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, why don't we take five minutes? (Comm.issioners Court adjourned at 2:35 p.m.) io-~~-o~ 179 1 ,--~ 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 STATE OF TEXAS ~ COUNTY OF KERR ~ The above and foregoing is a true and complete transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of November, 2003. JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk B Y : ____ ~C~i1GC~~ -- ---------------------- Kathy B ik, Deputy County Clerk Certified Shorthand Reporter to-~~-uu ORDER N0.28371 APPROVE 2003-2004 KERR COUNTY MARKET DAYS AND KERR COUNTY FARMERS' MARKET USAGE LICENSE On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the 2003-2004 Kerr County Market days and Kerr County Farmers' Market Usage License and authorize the County Judge to sign same and approve Special Holiday Market days for December 2003 and 2004. ORDER N0.28372 APPROVE FINAL REVISION OF PLAT LOT 1, VILLAGE INDUSTRIAL WEST PARK On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the final revision of plat Lot 1 Village West Industrial Park Pct. #4. ORDER N0.28373 ADOPTING TRAVEL VOUCHER FORM On this the 27th day of October, 2003, upon motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to adopt travel voucher form to clarify pay policy for out-of-county travel. ORDER N0.28374 RENEWAL OF TELEPHONE CONTRACT FOR ROAD AND BRIDGE DEPARTMENT On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the renewal of telephone contract for Road and Bridge Department and authorize the County Judge to sign same upon approval of County Attorney. ORDER N0.28375 AMENDING COURT N0.28347 CHANGE LOT 27 RIVERPARK ESTATES TO LOT 37 RIVERPARK ESTATES On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, amending Court Order No. 28347 to change Lot 27 to Lot 37 Riverpark Estates. ORDER N0.28376 APPROVAL OF FEE SCHEDULE FOR OSSF PROGRAM On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, of fee schedule for OSSF Program as presented. ORDER N0.28377 APPROVAL OF PROCESS FOR HIRING ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT PERSONNEL On this the 27th day of October, 2003, upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, of the process for hiring Environmental Health Department personnel and set a Special Commissioner for November 3, 2003 at 9 A.M. ORDER N0.28378 APPROVE AN ORDER ADOPTING RULES OF OSSF AND SET PUBLIC HEARING On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, an order adopting rules for On-Site Sewage Facilities and authorize the County Judge to submit the proposed rules to the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality for approval and set a Public Hearing on November 3, 2003 at 1 p.m. ORDER N0.28379 APPROVAL OF APPOINTMENTS TO LIBRARY ADVISORY BOARD On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the appointments to the Library Advisory Board of Mary Kay Mosty Hayes till 10/ 1 /2006 and of Albert E. Shults till 10/ 1 /2005. ORDER N0.28380 AUTHORIZING AMERICAN LEGION POST 208 TO USE THE COURTHOUSE GROUNDS On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, authorizing the American Legion Post 209 to utilize the Courthouse grounds and facilities for annual Veterans Day ceremony and prior to and subsequent to the ceremony for setup and takedown of appropriate equipment. ORDER N0.28381 APPROVAL OF PAULA RECTOR TO BOARD OF DIRECTORS OF KERR CENTRAL APPRAISAL DISTRICT On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, of Paula Rector to have a 907 votes on behalf of Kerr County for Board of Directors of Kerr Central Appraisal District. ORDER N0.28382 APPROVE OF VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT CONTRACTS On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, the Volunteer Fire Department contracts for the following and authorize the County Judge to sign same. Tierra Linda Volunteer Fire Department Turtle Creek Volunteer Fire Department Elm Pass Volunteer Fire Department Divide Volunteer Fire Department ORDER N0.28383 APPROVAL OF OSSF SUB-COMMITTEE TO CONTRACT WITH UGRA On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, for the OSSF sub-committee to work out arrangements to continue to use the UGRA office up to November 15, 2003. ORDER N0.28384 AUTHORIZE THE OSSF SUB-COMMITTEE TO SET UP A PERSONAL CONTRACT On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to authorize the subcommittee for Environmental Health purposes to negotiate and enter into personal service contracts with employees who currently hold such jobs for a period of time not to exceed two weeks, and that the previously approved hiring process likewise be included reiterated. ~`~' ORDER N0.28385 APPROVAL OF REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE OSSF On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, in the personal service contract to be negotiated with Mr. Stuart Barron, that he be designated at the Designated Representative of Kerr County for O.S.S.F. purposes. ORDER N0.28386 APPROVAL OF NEW POLICY OF THE MANAGER/FIELD REPRESENTATIVE OF THE KERR COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT On this the 27th day of October, 2003, upon motion made by Commissioner Nicholson, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, of new policy of the manager/field representative of the Kerr County Environmental Health Department as written and as with the change proposed by Commissioner Williams. °' ORDER N0.28387 CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS On this the27th day of October, 2003 came to considered by the Court various Commissioners Precinct which said claims and accounts are:10-General for $172,663.871ess $39.50;15-Road & Bridge for $162,007.17;31-Parks for $170.00;50-Indigent Health Care for $45,033,46;70-Permanent Improvement for $276.90. TOTAL CASH REQUIRED IS: $380,151.40. Upon motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court approved by a vote of 4-0-d, to pay said Claims and Accounts with the exception the Line Item No. 10-551-499 in Constable Precinct #1 be paid in the amount of $600.00 and not the original amount of $639.50. ORDER NO. 28388 APPROVAL OF LATE BILLS On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to pay the following late bills and issue hand check for each of them: To Lone Star Products, Inc. for $20.00 from Line Item No. 15-600- 485;To Ford Motor Credit Company for $35,997.02 from Line Item ~... No. 10-560-570; To Tommy Tomlinson for $264.42 from Line Item No. 10-495-485. ORDER N0.28389 ACCEPT AND APPROVE MONTHLY REPORTS On this the 27th day of October, 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0, to accept the following reports and direct that they be filed with the County Clerk for future audit: District Clerk Justice of the Peace Pct. # 1 Justice of the Peace Pct. #2