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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Special Session
Monday, November 3, 2003
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
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PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
November 3, 2003
PAGE
---	Commissioners' Comments		3
1.1	Consider and discuss hiring of perso	nnel for	
	Kerr County On-Site Sewage F cilia	Program	5
			
			
1.2	Consider and discuss transition and	operation	
	of tYie Kerr County On-Site Sewage Fa	cility	
	Program		6
1.3	PUBLIC HEARING - Proposed OSSF Rules	and	
	Regulations		25
1.4	Consider and discuss adoption of the	proposed	
	OSSF Rules and Regulations.-~ r~~.~3~j~	L~.> ~~` ~	29
3.1	Action as may be required on matters	discussed	
	in Executive Session		45
---	Adjourned		60
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On Monday, November 3, 2003, at 9:00 a.m,, a special
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the
Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville,
Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order the
special Commissioners Court meeting scheduled for this date,
Monday, November 3, at 9 a.m. It's a couple minutes after
9:00. Since this is a regular meeting, I`11 call on
Commissioner Williams to do the honors this morning.
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE TINLEY: At this point on the agenda,
if there's any citizen who wishes to come forward and speak
on a matter that's not listed on the agenda, why, you're
privileged to do so at this time. Is there any member of
the public, or anyone else for that matter, that wishes to
speak on a matter that's not listed on the agenda? Not
hearing anyone step forward -- seeing no one to step
forward, we'll move on to the next item. Any Commissioners'
Comments? We'll bypass 2 for the moment and go on to 3 --
no, 2's here. We'll start with you, Commissioner 2. Do you
have any comments this morning?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: 3?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is that
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the -- related to hunting season. I remember in years past,
when I was young, there was a -- the Commissioners Court had
a great deal to do with setting hunting season dates and
things of that nature, and I don't know if we have that
authority any more or not. Limits and dates --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: God, I hope not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and -- 'cause I
remember there were -- you know, there were hearings, and
Judge Neunhoffer was always very much in the middle of that.
And, to me, if we do have that authority, we might want to
look into it a little bit. It is really ridiculous to open
as early as this; miserable opening weekend, because of the
date. Parks and Wildlife has chosen to qo with the first
Saturday in November. And, you know, I don't know if anyone
-- when I went by Kerrville Airport Friday afternoon late,
and usually on the opening Friday before, it's just packed
with airplanes, and I didn't see hardly anything -- any
activity there. So, anyway, I just think it's something we
may want to look at, 'cause it's -- or at least, if nothing
else, pass a resolution asking Parks and Wildlife to
reconsider their opening date, 'cause it's an important part
of our existence around here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember some of the
old debates that you're referring to. It was, if you
remember, the killing of does, antler --
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Spikes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Spikes and those kind
of things. Seems like the County was really involved in
that kind of thing. But I agree with you, we have a pretty
good little hunting operation, and we killed absolutely
nothing, but got into a bunch of hogs that came through.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a plus.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's a plus.
But no deer, that we can talk about in public.
JUDGE TINLEY: 4, do you got any comments?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, but that's
interesting. I assumed we didn't have any authority on
that, but --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we may not.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think we do.
JUDGE TINLEY: 1?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just made them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much
for the opportunity to speak.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll move on to the
consideration agenda. Consideration and discussion of
hiring personnel, Kerr County On-Site Sewage Facility
Program. Commissioners Letz and Nicholson.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to go into
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Executive Session.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, why don't we --
before we do that, can't we discuss process, and also the
next agenda item a little bit?
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Let me go ahead
and call the next agenda item. You kind of melding them
both together here?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's hard to separate
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'll go ahead and call
the second agenda item, then, consideration and discussion
of transition and operation of Kerr County On-Site Sewage
Facility Program, We'll consider both Item 1 and Item 2
together.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the second item,
really, that's one of the -- to bring the Court up to date,
I think Commissioner Nicholson is. In -- in trying to get
the property shifted that's over there over to the County,
vehicles were the main thing. There`s insurance issues and
other things. Anyway, so they put together a quick bill of
sale and assignment of all the property that we're taking.
I ran it through David Motley`s office; he had no problem
with it, and the vehicles -- the two vehicles are added to
our insurance. The -- and I'll just -- you know, Thea -- we
can get it in everyone`s box; we can read the full list.
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Basically, we're getting the vehicles, cameras, office
equipment, things of that nature. The amount is $14,600,
which is a little bit higher than we had thought originally,
and that is because it came down to the issue of the file
cabinets. This is just -- the file cabinets the County sent
over to U.G.R.A. are now at Headwaters, and they don`t have
file cabinets for us, so they're giving all they have,
except the ones -- their big ones that they currently use
are quite -- a whole lot more expensive than what we sent
over there, that we can double. Anyway, we bought enough of
those at half price, and that was $1,60C, rather than go to
Headwaters and try to grab our files -- or grab our file
cabinets and leave their files on the floor.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, WP_'re tacking
$1,600 to the 14,6?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's -- 14,b is the
total amount. We had negotiated a $13,000 deal, and now
it's 14,6.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And, Jonathan, in
the rough budget we were working off, we had 16,5.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah,
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're in pretty
good shape.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not bad there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The other thing --
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excuse me, Jon. The other thing we talked about is that
Headwaters, U.G.R.A., and Kerr County all have the same
taxpayer base, so taking from one and giving to the other
one is -- has got a zero net impact on taxpayers. I think
-- I think this is a fair deal.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: As a matter of fact,
I think they treated us pretty well.
JUDGE TINLEY: The 14,6 was separate and
apart from the vehicles? Or including --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Includes the vehicles.
JUDGE TINLEY: Includes the vehicles. And
there's two vehicles there?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you remember the
ages of those vehicles?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One's a '99, and one`s a
2000 Jeep Cherokee. There are the VIN numbers. No, it's a
'98 and 2000.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We got those at more
or less wholesale.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, wholesale. And
part of our deal was -- they wanted a little bit more.
We obligated, and I use the term loosely -- something I
think we really need to do is public education a little bit,
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spend some money in that area. U.G.R.A. is going to match
whatever we spend, and so we can get -- do more of that and
try to tie it with some water quality issues. The total
amount for the sale and the education, we agreed to $18,000
as a total there, but when they raised the price, I backed
down. It was at five. I said, "Well, we can't afford to do
$5,000 public education." This is only four.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Added on the 14,6?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Added on 14,6 in the
budget. Really, what we were doing, basically -- I think
U.G.R.A. agreed, what we were trying to do is get them to
commit some money to help with public education.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're looking at -- the
difference between 18 and 14,6 is $3,400?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: $3,400, public education
commitment from us and them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's going to take
the lead in forming an educational program?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The O.S.S.F. Department,
I hope. And, I mean, that's something I think that they
need to -- and there's no rush on it, but it's a matter of
getting with them and let them decide. But, anyway, that's
just kind cf an update on that. The vehicles were the most
pressing item, and those were taken off of U.G.R.A.'s
insurance today, or are being taken off today, and they were
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added to the County's on Friday or this morning. Anyway,
that's been done; didn't have any lapse in coverage. That's
the reason I went ahead and signed this based on the court
order that authorized Commissioner Nicholson and I to
proceed with the -- you might hand this to Thea. This is
the original, and we have Janet Robinson's signature coming
over today, the original.
Just an update from talking with Commissioner
-- not Commissioner, former Commissioner Holekamp,
Maintenance Director Holekamp. There again, they're a
little bit further behind, or a little bit behind schedule
because of some of these issues of painting, taping,
floating; just can't get it done, and they have to let it
dry in between. We're on target for the 15th, but may not
be on target fir Friday, but they're proceeding downstairs.
That's really all I had on the transition. That's kind of
where we are. But -- oh, I guess the other item is, Stuart
Barron, Judy Carr, and Tish Hulett have all agreed to -- are
working today on a contract basis. Miguel Arreola, in the
courtroom, is not because of some other obligations. So,
there -- so, we are open for business over at U.G.R.A.
today, through the agreement we have with them.
The other item I think we possibly need to
deal with before we go into closed session is exactly what
we need to hire today, because I think we need to interview
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them. We kind of know the mix, due to some further
discussions and Commissioner Nicholson and I talking a
little bit more. There are some that recommend that we need
two clerks and one inspector instead of two inspectors and
one clerk, and we're not real sure -- I think, you know,
what the best way to set up the program is -- my personal
feeling is, today, is to hire -- hopefully hire one
inspector or one clerk. And that's, of course, based on a
little -- contingent upon what happens with the interview
process. We hopefully will have someone that we can agree
on hiring, and possibly go along for a short period of time
with a smaller staff, maybe a week, two weeks, and figure
out -- and talk to the -- you know, the staff, see how
things -- you know, get some additional input as to what
that third person should be down there, whether it should be
an inspector or clerk. That's just my personal feeling.
I'm not sure if Commissioner Nicholson agrees with that
totally or not.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's -- I
think that's an option. I think what I've learned, my
assessment of it is that it can be done effectively with --
with three people. And, listening to the people who are
currently doing the work, they are of the opinion that the
right mix is a manager/inspector -- manager-slash-inspector
and two clerks. My guess is that's probably a better mix of
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people than -- than the first proposal, where we would have
a manager/inspector and a field representative and one
clerk. And part of -- after listening to the people who are
doing that work now, who are the ones that are best able to
assess those kind of things, I took a -- a harder look at
the job description of the current manager, and I think
you've got a copy of it in your material there. This -- if
you -- yeah, that's the page there. It's right behind that
page, Judge, I think. I had earlier made some -- made some
notes that this was Stuart Barron's current job. It's a lot
of administrative duties; budgeting, leave requests,
purchase supplies, things like that. It's the kind of --
kind of position you see in a hierarchical organization.
Additionally, some cf the duties will be removed from that
job; floodplain determinations, floodplain permits, et
cetera, floodplain orders. My conclusion is that you can
compress the manager/inspector job with the field
representative job easier than you can compress the two
clerical jobs.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And then that would
be even more feasible and more -- even better if one or more
of the two clerical positions became licensed, become
qualified to back up the manager/inspector and go out in the
field and make -- make determinations and inspections. So,
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I'm agreeing with Jonathan. I think it's -- I'm still
convinced that we can do it efficiently with three people.
I think the right mix is manager/inspector and two clerical
people, and if -- if we can fit all that with making some
job offers and getting it staffed now, and getting it
running, then I wouldn't have any objection to waiting some
time on filling one of the jobs.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question of
the Commissioner. On your page about Stuart, identifying
what his job description was, you've got some penciled-in
notes at the bottom there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm.
COMMTSSIONER WILLIAMS: Interface with
T.C.E.Q., do floodplain administration, review subdivision,
investigate the place to file cases. So, with the exception
of the floodplain we're getting removed, then that would
boil down, in your opinion, his job responsibilities from
the larger list above?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that -- am I
reading that correctly?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, essentially,
this is the meat of the job, what you're saying. Preparing
the budget and approving leave requests and things like that
would still go on, but those are incidental things that
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don't take -- require very much time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, budget --
budgetary responsibilities are essentially reduced, because
our budget process is --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Pretty simple.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- much different.
Leave requests, that's kind of a no-brainer. Purchase of
supplies is -- doesn't require a lot of time.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let the clerical
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know what --
how much time is involved interfacing with T.C.E.Q.; I have
no feel for that. So, you're saying it is greatly reduced?
That's what I'm hearing. I have one other thought about --
not particularly that, but a question in looking at the
printed Page 2, that deals with the responsibilities of the
employee identified as Tish and employee identified as Judy.
The first employee has a great number of responsibilities,
it would seem. Pretty well occupy -- if there's any
business at -- in O.S.S.F., it pretty well would occupy an
employee's day. I'm curious as to the amount of work that
is Employee Number 2, under Judy, which goes to tracking
aerobic contracts and service reports and entering all that
database, preparing the notices, and filing cases in court
and so forth and so on. How much time do you understand
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that requires, or has required?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I believe it's a
full-time job. I don't think there's any slack there. I
also see that it's -- I think you see my note there that
75 percent of that job, at my best estimation, is due to
aerobic systems. That --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which we're not doing
away with.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unfortunately.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- they're badly
oversold, though, in my opinion. When we started down the
track that led us to where we are on aerobic systems, it
winds up r_osting the taxpayers and -- and landowners a lot
of money.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- I mean,
to follow up on that, aerobic systems, I think they're
clearly -- we're in a situation that we're going to have to
devote a lot of man hours -- clerical man hours to follow
that process. You know, I think we can probably improve
from the 75 percent time that was said, basically with some
technology improvements, and I think so we can make it less
time. But I think what that also does, it would free up
time to do, you know, some of the work or, you know, maybe
redivide the work between the two clerks and take some of
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the work from the inspectors over to the clerks and give
them -- give the clerks a little bit more responsibilities,
little bit more to try to keep the inspector out of the
field as much as possible, and backed up by real strong
support staff in the office.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your comments, then,
would confirm my basic thought, that if we have an immediate
need in staffing in addition to a field person, we do need
two people inside, as the transition's going to be
difficult. I don't care what you say, it's going to be
difficult.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. And I think the
only -- you know, and I wouldn't be totally opposed to
hiring -- if we come up with plan, we're happy to go with
the two clerks and the one inspector today. I think that,
you know, there is a -- because the other point -- or item
out there that's kind of floating around is the Solid Waste
position, and that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody has to keep
track of that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there's some
clerical job that goes to that, though not a great deal, but
there is some. There's also a possibility of that person,
in the future, or possibly even currently, becoming a
licensed inspector of O.S.S.F. So, I mean, I think in the
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long term, we've already got half or a part-time position
there. And that part-time, you know, if we're, you know,
short, could be put in a full-time position and delete that
part-time position. So, I mean, I think there's some things
we can maneuver around with that Solid Waste position.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in that
connection, last week at the AACOG Board, there's a whole
basket full of money available, more grants. We
participated in some of those grants to get this program
started, and we're eligible to apply again. And, if that
were the case, that might help us expand the scope of that
department.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll tell you more
about that another court date.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other thing that
kind of relates to this, and an area that I think that we --
not right away, but hopefully mid-year, when we're on a
little bit more solid ground -- want to look at is increased
enforcement. I think the rules are -- or the state rules I
think we're going to end up adopting are pretty strict, but
there are -- I don't think that we have been able to devote
enough resources into really pursuing that. And a lot of
that's clerical-type work. A lot of that is figuring out
what's what. I mean, it's going through records at the
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Appraisal District, see who owns the property, and sending
out letters and just saying, you know, is this situation --
you know, are you in compliance? And I think there's some
things that we can do in that area, which probably more
clerical staff need to do than inspector and staff. I'm
sure there would be same inspector staff as well.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would hope that, in
this transition to a new department, we would figure out a
way to make enforcement better than it has been in the past.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Exactly. Definitely.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes. My vision for
all this is that, a year from now, we'll be looking back and
saying that not only are we doing this function more
cost-effectively, but we're doing a better job of protecting
the environment. That we're filing more claims, that we're
doing a better job of enforcement, and that the objective of
making sure that septics don't pollute the environment is
being fully achieved. 98 percent, maybe.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let me see if I've got
the sense of what's being proposed at this point. And that
is that, initially, the proposal is that we try and obtain
two people, one field-type and onP clerical-type, with the
option that if there is an additional clerical-type that
would -- if we're really sold on it, the possibility of
bringing a second clerical on board at this phase. Is
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that -- is that the sense of what I'm hearing is proposed
today?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what I
would prefer, Judge.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What would you
prefer?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather see us put
two clerical on and not have any of the administrative stuff
fall through the cracks.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm not far away
from that position.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I could go either way. I
could go with what I said earlier -- Judge said or what I
said earlier. Just depends on the kind of discussion at the
end of the day. I mean, I think we're set up, and we're
interviewing, I think, enough candidates to fill any -- any
range we want. And it just depends on kind of how it goes
this afternoon or this morning on the interviews, to me.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the only -- the only
concern I would have is that, as I'm sure all of you know,
it's easier to add than it is to delete, and we want to make
sure we -- we're adding where we need to add. That we need
to add, and we're adding where we need to add. But, you
know, I think circumstances are going to dictate it, and it
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may be we want to get a handle on the flow of this entire
process before we start parceling out any new position
and -- and bringing someone else on. But that's just a
matter of degree, I suppose.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I think
it's a real fine line of -- of your approach and what
Commissioner Williams is talking about; we don't want to get
behind the 8-ball, but we don't want to overstaff. And -- I
mean, and we just have to -- I mean, that's a tough call.
One thing, you know, as I frequently like to bring up, is
the -- let's see, I guess the -- what's a good word for it?
The problem in the way we do things. We all -- we didn't
authorize two administrative positions. We authorized one
administrative position and two inspector positions. So,
you know, I think we can -- probably could rectify that
based on the postings today, under our -- the spectrum, but
if we do go with two clerical staff today, we have to
remember that we have to authorize that position before we
hire somebody for that position.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think 1.1
could do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: 1.1 or 1.2. Either one, I
think, can cover it on amending the prior authorization that
we may have -- may have done.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just make sure that
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we don't get -- you know, we need to remember to do it that
way so we don't get caught with a position that's not
authorized.
JUDGE TINLEY: The only other question would
be the advertising that we did. But, there again, there's
no requirement that we hire a candidate for any position,
and I think inherently we have the authority for -- if we
advertise for an administrative or clerical position, we can
hire one or 10 or 101, as far as that goes, if we so choose.
So, I don't see a problem with that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We've got a list of
eight people we want to talk to, and I think it'll be a good
bit more clear after we talk to that eighth person, the
direction we ought to go.
JUDGE TINLEY: What is the -- what is the
plan on how we proceed with -- talking with these
individuals, these prospective employees?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We pretty much, I think,
starting at 10 o'clock, every 30 minutes -- or 10 o'clock,
every 30 minutes, have a slot filled. The idea would be
that we would do all the interviews in Executive Sessior:.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You've got a list of
the people and the approximate times; they're in front of
you somewhere.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And those persons have
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already been notified that we would prefer to have them here
at the estimated time?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two of them are already
here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anxious, ready to go to
work.
JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Bright-eyed and
bushy-tailed, as they say, huh?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow, with a tie on, I
didn't recognize you.
MR. BARRON: That's why I sat back here in
the back.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any other items
that we need to concern ourselves with or discuss or take
action on under Item 1 or 2, other than the actual
interviewing of prospective employees?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we just need to
leave them open thrcughout the day. We can come back to
them if we need to.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just have one
other cautionary housekeeping measure. We've got eight
people on that list, and I think we ought to treat that list
as confidential. Some of these people have jobs, and I
don't know whether o.r not they want it to be widely known
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that they're interviewing for a different --
JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's a pretty
to be sitting over here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay.
MS. SOVIL: I have personally -- or not --
this Court has gotten numerous calls on the transition. I
wish you would reiterate the status right now of U.G.R.A. --
of O.S.S.F. Are they to call -- people -- you just need to
reiterate what people are supposed to do for the next two
weeks.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- for the
time being, until other information is presented to the
public, they should continue to use the office. The staff
that is working at L'.G.R.A. office building, that staff is
working on a contract basis for the County. And they can
use the same phone number. There's a notice over there on
their desk which states that, and states that the offices
will move to 700 Main Street at a time to be announced. And
the phone number will remain unchanged. Our actual phone
line will be a different number, but we're putting the old
O.S.S.F. phone number on a permanent call-forward to our new
numbers. With our phone system, if we transferred the exact
number over here, it wouldn't integrate into the courthouse
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phone system. Which makes no sense to me, but --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me either.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be a
conflict with U.G.R.A. numbers, would it not?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: This -- the number that
they use for O.S.S.F. is the one we transferred over there
from the County, from Road and Bridge; it's not their 5445
number.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, for now, they
continue to go the same place they've always gone to, and
call the same number.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And there's a fee
schedule over there that we adopted.
MS. SOVIL: And there will be inspections
done during this period?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, there will. A
little -- the scheduling could be a little bit difficult,
but just from --
MS. SOVIL: Those are the questions I've been
asked.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- from the public
standpoint, there's -- at this time, there's no change.
Okay. There's really no reason we can't go into closed
session, and since we have some of the applicants here,
start the process now.
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JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm thinking. If
we don't have anything to do preliminarily in open session,
got nothing further at this time, then the Court will recess
from the open session and will go into closed session under
personnel matters in order to interview prospective
employees and other considerations in that regard for
O.S.S.F.
(Discussion off the record.)
(The open session was closed at 9:33 a.m.,
and an Executive Session was held, the
transcript of which is contained in a
separate document.)
(Commissioners Court recessed for lunch at
11:50 a.m. and reconvened at 1 p.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: I'll now call us back into
open session. The item for consideration at 1 o'clock is a
public hearing, so I will recess the Commissioners Court
meeting.
(The regular Commissioners Court meeting was
closed at 1:05 p.m., and a public hearing
was held in open court, as follows:)
P U B L I C H E A R I N G
JUDGE TINLEY: And I will open a public
hearing on the proposed O.S.S.F. Rules and Regulations, and
ask if tY~ere's any member of the public that wishes to
address the Court with regard to the proposed O.S.S.F. Rules
and Regulations. Any member of the public wishing to be
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heard? Mr. Plangman? Come forward, please. If you'll gave
your name and address to the court reporter.
MR. PLANGMAN: Who do you give this to?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can give to it me.
Paper airplanes. Old Jewell.
MR. PLANGMAN: I'm Jewell Plangman. I live
at 625 Rimrock Road, Kerrville South. I moved here in 1986,
and at that time all I could see in the paper was that
Kerrville South was polluting Camp Meeting Creek. So,
U.G.R.A. decided to try to get a proposed a sanitary sewer
system to be put into Kerrville South. The citizens there
did n.ot feel like it was adequate to do what it would need
to do, and they went before the Commissioners Court, and the
Commissioners Court ruled in their favor. Soon after that,
Commissioner Bili Ray formed an ad hoc committee to take
care of this situation. Using the existing state of Texas
regulations, we worked and performed -- and decided on what
was now printed in the original ones. But our main concern
was what was going to happen with the existing sanitary
sewer systems on sites that we couldn't have them inspected
right then, so we -- they were in a -- in a grandfather
clause. But, to take care of the -- to take care of the
reason to have them inspected, we put in there that at the
time of the sale of the property, it was mandatory that all
systems be inspected to make sure that they conformed to the
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state and county regulations.
Now, soon after that, this County took over;
they formed a department, and Mr. Liedke was a head --
appointed head of the department. And, from all I
understand, he was doing a good job; maybe doing too good of
a job, because the Commissioners Court harassed him enough
so he had to quit. He went to this same position at another
county, and I understand he's doing well there. You gave it
back to the U.G.R.A. to take over, and it seems like either
they aren't functioning the way they should or they're being
harassed or something. You want to change it now so that
there's no mandatory inspection. It's my belief that if you
change this, you're going to take us right back to 1990, the
way it was, because the state rules were in effect at that
time. Nobody was turning anybody in, that they were
polluting. You could see it in roads, in streets; it was
being polluted. Nobody turned in -- nobody did anything
about it. So, it's my opinion that -- that if you delete
this section of mandatory inspections, you're just taking it
and say, "Okay, son, grandson, granddaughter, great
granddaughter, this is your problem. We didn't want to take
it into account." I appreciate you allowing me to speak to
you, and thank you very much.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Plangman. Is
there anyone else who wishes to be heard on this issue?
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Yes, sir? If you you'd come forward and give your name and
address to the court reporter.
MR. LIGON: Someone want this?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
MR. LIGON: Sure. My name is Robert Ligon.
I live out on Bandera Highway, and I'm in the process of
buying property in Center Point that has an old septic
system that works. But I believe that, under the present
system, if I buy that piece of property, it will have to be
inspected and it will automatically be declared unusable and
a new system will have to be installed, so I'm in favor of
us reverting to the -- use the present state of Texas
regulations, that there's no mandatory inspections in the
change during real estate transactions, and I believe that's
what we were addressing today. So, I would -- I would view
it very, very favorable to the people in the county if we
reverted to the state regulations. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Ligon. We
appreciate you being here with us today. Is there any other
member of the public that wishes to come forward and be
heard with regard to this particular issue?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Coming in the door.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could be.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any other member of
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the public that wishes to be heard on the issue of proposed
O.S.S.F. Rules? If not, I'll declare the public hearing
(The public hearing was concluded at 1:11
p.m., and the regular Commissioners Court
meeting was reopened.)
JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the
Commissioners Court meeting, and that will put us down to
Item 4, consideration and discussion of adoption of the
proposed O.S.S.F. Rules and Regulations.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I have a
motion to make. I move that we approve the Order Adopting
Rules of Kerr County, Texas for On-Site Sewage Facilities,
and authorize the County Judge to sign the same.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
the proposed Order Adopting Rules of Kerr County, Texas for
On-Site Sewage Facilities be adopted, and the County Judge
be authorized to sign the same. Any question or discussion
on this?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a comment --
I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, go ahead. My
question is a technical one. Are we adopting them or
approving them to send them to T.C.E.Q., so then we can
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adopt them? Do we adopt first or do we approve first?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we cross that
in for their approval.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's what
we decided.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Just wanted to
make sure we're approving and adopting in the right order.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge?
JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. There is
no secret of my feelings. I've wrestled with this for many,
many years, and Mr. Plangman was talking about the committee
that put it together, and I was on tYie court at that time,
and we struggled with it and looked at it from every point
on the face of the earth trying to figure out a way to cause
inspections and to do what we think or thought was the right
way to do this program. And the time of transfer was really
the only way that we could see that -- that it could be done
properly, and so that -- that program has rocked along all
these years. I still believe -- I don't know that that is
the best way; obviously, it is not. But I still believe --
and I've said that at this table many, many times -- that I
feel like that there needs to be some kind of inspection
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program, regardless whether it's at the time of sale or some
other bright and wonderful way, but I just really feel like
there needs to be an inspection of some sort. Now, saying
all that, I've also been here long enough to understand
how -- how it works. And my attitude of the thing is, even
though I disagree with what you're doing -- or what we are
doing, I also see that the motion is -- is going to pass,
and we will go back and adopt the state rules as written.
And, with that in mind, I'm not going to be the person that
throws up roadblocks. I'm the kind of guy that is going to
do some -- once we adopt it and get it moving, I`m going to
be one of these guys that is going to jump on board and make
it work to the best of our abi]ity so that Kerr County will
have the very best system that they can have. That's all.
JUDGE TINLEY: `l hank you, Commissioner. Any
other questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, I have some
comments, which you might expect. Comes as no secret that I
have, as has been Commissioner Baldwin, not been in favor
of -- or, you knnw, probably radically opposed to the
elimination of the transfer rule, and probably, with not
quite as much enthusiasm, elimination of the 10-acre
exception -- exemption, whatever it is. I believe that we
probably didn't devote enough time to trying to find an
alternative method for finding and identifying failing or
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out-of-compliance septic systems. But that's then, and
we're here now. I sincerely hope that, in the action that
we'll take today, that we are not sacrificing our
stewardship over water resource quality for political
expedience, but I know we have to move on. The rules have
to be adopted, and we have to -- we have to construct a
department, and hopefully we can do that with the best of
our collective intelligence and judgment.
Having said all that, I'm going to say one
more thing. The ultimate solution, or the answer to failing
septics is the construction of sewer collection systems and
making certain that that gets taken care of. We have one
underway in Kerrville South, and we've received moneys to do
that. I can assure you that this Commissioner will pursue
others so that we can finally find a solution to failing
septics, and I hope -- wherever and whenever possible. And
I hope that the Court will be supportive of those efforts
when I bring them back, or when others of us bring them to
us for consideration. I will abstain, because I know we
have to move forward.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or
comments?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a few comments.
And I guess I look at it a little bit differently than my
two colleagues in Precinct 1 and 2. I look at the --
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basically, the County has had a -- tried for going on 10
years -- close to or over 10 years now, to make a real
estate transfer rule work, and we've been unsuccessful. We
have yet to come up with language that is clear, is fair.
The current rules, we spent a great deal of time three years
ago, I guess, four years ago trying to r_tean it up, and all
we did was muddy the waters even more. And the problem is
that there is no way to determine if a system is failing,
and no one even knows what "failing" means, much less
determine if it is failing, unless you do a very invasive
inspection. And we -- this Court has never been of the
mind-sPt really to force that issue, to go into a full, very
invasive -- basically, dig up a system and see if it's
working, and it, frankly, doesn't make sense to do it that
way.
So, you know, the options we have is to --
you know, and that's the only way you can do it, is to make
a system become licensed, you have to basically dig it up.
And there's plenty of old systems that are not licensed that
are working and functioning fine, so it never made sense to
make people dig them up for that reason. So, while real
estate transfer seems and sounded like a good time to do an
inspection, there's no feasible way that this Court, and I
don't think anyone else, you know, in the state has been
able to show me that you can do it. So, I think it's a --
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you know, I've come to the realization that it's a -- it's a
good intent, but it doesn't work very well. And I look at
our new rules as a -- kind of as an opportunity for the
County to, you know, use state rules to the maximum benefit
of state rules, and require a lot of inspections of property
and a lot of public education.
There is a tremendous misconception in the
county as to what we're doing today. People -- Mr. Plangman
made it sound like we're, you know, almost getting rid of
all the rules. Well, that's the farthest thing from the
truth. If -- because of the real estate transfer and other
things, it was kind of viewed, I think, in the past as the
way to catch septic systems. It didn't work. There are
many differerrt ways. Anytime anybody alters a current
system in the county, by law, they're required to get that
system licensed at that time. That has not been done. The
10-acre exemption that Commissioner, Precinct 2 referred to,
that's a very, very limited exemption. Many people claim
that exemption. when it doesn't qualify. So, I hope the
public doesn't view this as the County relaxing septic
rules. I view it the opposite way. I view it as a way for
us to devote our resources to really tightening up on a lot
of things that have been done improperly, probably, for the
last 10, 15, even longer. I think the rules -- state rules
are very clear that we have a lot of authority, and we just
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need to use those rotes to make sure and guarantee that we
have quality water throughout the county. That's it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Very briefly, Judge,
I think this may be one of those rare cases where you can
have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. I think we can
make the program more efficient and less burdensome by
eliminating the real estate transfer rule, and I think that
will provide us the opportunity to focus more on -- on
enforcement of the state rules. I think we need to work
harder at finding those systems that are in trouble, and
requiring those owners to bring them up to our
specifications.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or
comments? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(Commissioners Baldwin, Letz, and Nicholson
voted in favor of the motion.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Record my vote as an
abstention.
JUDGE TINLEY: So noted.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, as the press is
here, these rules will not become effective until they are
approved by T.C.E.Q.; is that correct?
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JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: The resolution or the order
will go forward. I can't imagine that they would not
approve it, since it's their model order, but --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You never know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge?
JUDGE TINLEY: Upon receipt of that approval,
why, that will be the effective date.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, in your cover
letter -- I presume you'll put a cover letter with this when
we send it to T.C.E.Q. -- I'd appreciate it if you would
make reference to the fact that, in the Commissioners Court
opinion, this is the only -- these are the only rules for
Kerr County, and that we are the only authorized agent for
the county. And my reason for that is -- is to force an
issue on U.G.R.A.'s authorization status on the 1,500-foot
rule. It's up in the air still, and that needs to be
resolved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I make that in the
form of a motion.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, just a second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I need to.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Authorization status
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for two agencies -- two governmental agencies in Kerr County
comes about by, my understanding, two separate sets of law,
and I don't know how we could take such an action like that.
We are, you know, the authorized agent because T.C.E.Q. did
it -- you know, gave us that authority. But U.G.R.A. also
has authority under another set of laws, given to them
either by the Legislature or the water -- or the Water Codes
and so forth. Doesn't seem to -- it seems to me that all
we're doing is reaffirming our own position. They have to
do whatever they have to do with respect to their position.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's true. But the
other side of it is that they're in the, I guess, position
of having two authorized agents, one kind of happening out
there in limbo, and one the acting. It needs to be
resolved, in my mind. And I think that -- I don't think
it's necessary; I think T.C.E.Q. will take action on their
own to force this issue, but I think that it needs to be
dealt with, because there is an argument that we do not have
authority in that 1,500-foot area. And U.G.R.A. -- in fact,
I would say if U.G.R.A. -- if that second authorization
status is valid, we do not have authority in the 1,500-foot
area, period. So, that means that part of the county is
left with no -- no one monitoring it, because we have no
local -- interlocal agreement with U.G.R.A. authorizing us
to act in that area.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But our taking an
action instructing the Judge to write a letter doesn't
change that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doesn't change it, but it
brings it to the -- it puts it on the plate of the T.C.E.Q.,
as opposed to leaving it in limbo. And if T.C.E.Q. has no
problem with leaving it like that, that's their decision.
They're the --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I support
Commissioner Letz' opinion, and remind the Court that the
County Attorney and the Judge have a letter that -- that
supports the claim that the U.G.R.A.'s position that they
have authority within 1,500 feet is not valid, because they
have not gone through the process to become an authorized
agent. So, whether they have or not I don't know, but I
agree that it needs to be cleared up.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you made a
very good point there. They have not gone through the
process to activate the enabling legislation. Having not
gone through the process, they have -- they haven't
fulfilled it, the area of the law that gave them this
potential authority. So, therefore, they probably don't
have the authority.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's my
understanding.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's probably
true, but T.C.E.Q. has them as the authorized agent
currently. They are the authorized agent in that 1,500-foot
area.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because it was in
separate legislation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because T.C.E.Q. gave it
to them in 1980, by letter.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you sure it was
T.C.E.Q.?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, the --
according to Ken Graber at T.C.E.Q., they sent the letter
that gave it to them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd be much more
comfortable if the County Attorney would research it and
give us an answer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd rather put it on the
burden of the State.
		COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:	The County Judge.
		COMMISSIONER LETZ: I j	ust think it's -- and
this is	nothing	new to U.G.R.A. They'	re not going to wake
up with	a, you	know, "Oh, my gad, look	what the County's
done."	This is	-- I've discussed this	exact process with
their G	eneral M	anager, and he's fully	aware of what I think
should	be done,	and he doesn't have --	has never indicated
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any problem with that process, because I think he's one that
believes that they don't -- they do not have the authorized
agent status. And even --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because he never
requested it to be firmed up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They've never pursued it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, since he`s been
here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's really
academic.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Something had to be
done, as I understand, in 1978 or `79.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And they did not go
through that process. Now, they may go -- they may decide
to go through it or not, but I think what Commissioner Letz
is saying is it needs to be cleared up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need T.C.E.Q. to
say, "Here is the situation," with respect to their
authority.
COMMISSIOT~~ER LETZ: And the reason it's not
academic is because, if we have a litigation that comes in
that 1,500-foot area, it will likely be thrown out, 'cause
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we don't have -- we don't have authority, I would think. I
mean, it's not clear. I mean, if I was -- you know, if
there was a -- you go to the worst case -- a death because
of a nuisance systems or something like that, believe me,
they're going to research that rule. And, you know, if we
don't have authority to -- to do anything -- and so I think
there's -- it's a real down side if we don't get it
resolved. Now, the other option is that, if U.G.R.A. does
have it, then they can enter an interlocal agreement with us
and we can administer the program in their area, which is
fine too. I just think that we need to have it ironed out.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does anybody on the
Court know what T.C.E.Q. -- the predecessor, T.N.R.C.C.,
gave us when they bestowed authorized agent status on us
originally? 'Cause, in that letter, you're going to find
out the answer to your question.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure what was in
that letter. I just know that Ken Graber says that, in
their files, there are two authorized agents in Kerr County.
Kerr County and U.G.R.A.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All that letter would
have to say would be entirety of Kerr County.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what it said?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'm
asking. I don't know.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All I'll say, I just
think it needs to be resolved. I think an easy, cheap way
for us to resolve it is to toss it up to Austin, and if they
don't think there's a problem, they won't do anything.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What you're proposing
is really not as painful as Commissioner Williams seems to
think it is. I see it as nothing more than a push.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For T.N. -- whoever.
We can ask T.C.E.Q. to rectify the problem. Let's get the
lines drawn.
do sometimes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make a decision.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is hard for tYiem to
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see you
mentioning that in a letter, taking away or giving to or
anything else. It's just encouraging to get this thing
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If -- if the -- it's
not really painful. If what we're seeking -- if we're
seeking nothing more than a clarification of our own status,
that we do, in fact, have authorized agent status over the
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entirety of Kerr County, I don't have a problem with that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's what we're
seeking, is clarification by T.C.E.Q. that this Court has
authorized agent status for the entire area of Kerr County,
I have no problem with that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's basically what I'm
asking. I'm just saying that the letter says that we are
the authorized agent for all of Kerr County.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's frame the
letter that way.
MS. SOVIL: With the exception of
incorporated cities.
true.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right, that's
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, municipalities,
whatever. Whatever they have, they have.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need a motion to do
that, or just the Judge write it out of consensus?
MS. SOVIL: You're still on your other
motion; you haven't voted on it.
make a motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We voted.
MS. SOVIL: Did you?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To make it clear, I'll
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JUDGE TINLEY: I know exactly where you're
coming from.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion --
JUDGE TINLEY: And I don't have a problem
with it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that the letter --
JUDGE TINLEY: I can dictate you the letter
right now, and it will saying something to the effect, "It
is my understanding that the present position of Kerr County
is that Kerr County is the authorized agent for O.S.S.F.
matters for the entirety of Kerr County, excluding
incorporated cities."
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my motion.
JUDGE TINLEY: "If this is not correct,
please inform us in writing immediately."
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you get that,
Ms. Sovil?
MS. SOVIL: No, but Kathy did.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that
the letter contain such language.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any question or discussion?
All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries
unanimously. Okay, we're going to resume our Executive
Session matters shortly, but before we do that, do we have
any other matters tcwards the end of the agenda that require
any action? I don't -- I don't see anything. No reports or
anything of that nature. That being the case, I will close
the open meeting and recess the open meeting of
Commissioners Court, and we'll go into executive, closed
session to consider personnel matters -- resume
consideration of those matters.
(The open. session was closed at 1:30 p.m.,
and an Executive Session was held, the
transcript of which is contained in a
separate document.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Court will go back into open
session. It's 4:25. We've been in closed session
discussing personnel matters concerning staffing of the
O.S.S.F. Environmental Health Department. We're now back in
open session. Do I hear any matters to be offered
concerning the matter discussed in closed, executive
session?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, Judge, I want
to make a motion concerning the organization of the
Environmental Health Department of Kerr County, and -- and
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make a motion recommending candidates for those positions.
My motion is that we staff it with a manager-slash-field
representative position and two clerical positions, and that
we offer the manager-slash-field representative position to
Miguel Arreola, at a base salary rate of $31,000 a year.
And we offer the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do one at a time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, let's do one at
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
the Environmental Health Department be staffed by a
manager-slash-field representative and two clerical
positions, and that the manager/field rep position be
offered to Miguel Arreola at a salary of $31,000. Any
question or discussion or comments in connection with the
motion?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have a question.
We had some discussions about the management -- the
inspector-slash-management position. Are we offering -- are
we offering both to Miguel at this time? And, if so, are
there any caveats that we want to convey to him with respect
to the management part of it?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the answer, to
me, is yes, we're offering both the inspector/manager
position, and the salary is probably a little bit -- is
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lower than we advertised, and the reasoning is not as much
management experience as we would like to see, though we
think he can learn. And the additional funds that we would
save, I think we'll probably put in the budget for
management training for that position.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's key. You got
there. I think we should --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's $2,000 in the
budget for management training.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- express our desire
on the -- or not a desire. Express that it is a plus that
his management skills be improved through continuing
education.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further -- excuse me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we handle that with
the budget -- when we adopt the final budget for that
department, putting those funds in there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or
discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.}
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. My second
motion is that we offer a clerical job in that department to
Patricia S. Hulett at a salary grade of 17-7; that's $27,327
a year, and that the offer be contingent upon her
willingness to qualify to be a -- to perform the field
representative duties.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that
we offer a clerical position to Patricia S. Hulett in the
Environmental Health Department at a grade and step of 17-7,
with a salary of $27,327, this offer being contingent upon
her acceptance of the requirement that she obtain proper
licensing or certification to become a field inspector --
O.S.S.F. field inspector.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. We used
the term -- the generic term "clerical." What, in fact, is
the job title?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have them over
here?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's
administrative clerk.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Administrative clerk, I
believe. The --
JUDGE TINLEY: It`s in the ad.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: The pay group was
established by the County Treasurer.
COMMISSIONER WILLiAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Based on the job
descriptions.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions or
discussion"? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The third motion
will be that we employ Judy K. Carr in that Environmental
Health Department as a clerk, at a salary grade of 15-5,
with an annual salary of $23,563 per year, and that she --
the offer is contingent upon her agreeing to get the proper
licensing to qualify as the field representative.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to
offer a clerical position in the Environmental Health
Department to Judy K. Carr at a step and grade of 15-5,
annual salary, $23,553, and further that the offer be on the
condition that she agree to obtain proper licensing or
certification as an O.S.S.F. field inspector. Any question
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or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I'd like to
probably make one additional motion. I think we probably
can do this, and that would be that the employment date for
all three of these employees will be this morning -- or
include today. I think it resolves some issues of
independent contractor and some other paperwork issues, and
it also enables them to continue -- assuming they accept the
positions -- working tomorrow with our arrangement at
U.G.R.A.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I second the motion.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So the hire date
would be effective 11/3?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: At beginning of business
today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, today would be a work
day for them in the County.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
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your right	hand.			
	(The motion c	arried by	unanimous	vote.)
	JUDGE TINLEY:	All oppo	sed, same	sign.
	(No response.	)		
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Motion c	arries.	
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	Question.	Who's going
to notify	these people? All	of these	people?	
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Dav	e.	
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	You going	to notify
everybody	and tell them yea	or nay?		
	(Commissioner	Nicholson	nodded.)	
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	Today?	
	COMMISSIONER	NICHOLSON:	Going to	try to.
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	You like t	hat, don't
you?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I kind of left it
with them that we'd try to get done today, but it might be
tomorrow.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need to do the ones
that we're hopefully hiring first.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell them to get down
here tonight.
JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully, you'll find them
where they're supposed to be. That's working.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, they're still
going to be performing their responsibilities for Kerr
County out at the U.G.R.A. building.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. My understanding,
unofficially, is that with this group of employees, there's
no problem with them c~rltinuing to use that current
facility.
JUDGE TINLEY: Single move, at whatever date
it's going to be.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I would also
recommend, just from a courtesy standpoint -- well, I don't
know how can you can do it, is call Greg Etter and let him
know the situation. Because he needs to know that Stuart
was not selected. Is --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you going to do
that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Should you wait until we
know --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- about the acceptance of
these positions?
COMMISSIUNER LETZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- you know, or
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I can also call Greg and say this is what we're doing. I'll
probably call Greg and say, "This is what we're getting
ready to do," so you're aware of it from the standpoint --
they're about to close over there, anyway.
JUDGE TINLEY: May not need to. How quickly
do you work?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might get it on
Channel 10 if she acts quickly.
MS. LAVENDER: We're not going to get it on
today's news. Probably tomorrow. I would hate to turn on
the news and find out that I'd been hired or not been hired.
That's not the way you do management.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else to come before
us, gentlemen?
MS. SCVIL: Yes, sir. We have a little
problem.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's new?
MS. SOVIL: Well, this was brought to my
attention. This is the county insurance bid. It will be
returned at 9 a.m. on the 10th day of November, and opened
on the 10th day of November at 10 a.m., which is a holiday.
This was sent out before y'all adopted the holidays.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, call them up
and tell them to change it.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, I think
there's -- I think they're due that day, but --
MS. SOVIL: No, it says very clearly it will
be opened at 10 o'clock on the 10th.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, wait. What we
need to -- well, what I would do if I was in charge here --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You are.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I would get three
of us in here to accept them and give them to the clerk, and
go back home till the following day.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do that too.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to be here anyway.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be around.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm in town.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have to have a clerk.
MS. PIEPER: I was looking for a rubber band
to shoot at you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. If I get a
tee-time, I'll call you.
MS. SOVIL: I just needed y'all to be aware
of what went down.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we settled
all that a couple weeks ago, but --
MS. SOVIL: Well, that was done assuming that
the 11th was a holiday, and y'all did a switch-a-roo on
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everybody.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What day are we
taking off? Monday, the 10th? That's what we're taking
off?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The real holiday's
Tuesday.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I know.
MS. SOVIL: Well, it might be -- we're not
going to get any mail that morning, because the courthouse
is closed. The post office will be closed on Tuesday.
JUDGE TINLEY: We may be obliged to accept
these until 9 a.m. the following --
MS. SOVIL: Wednesday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MS. SOVIL: Because the 11th is -- the post
office is closed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They can get it here;
everything's open on the 10th.
MS. SOVIL: No, we're closed on the 10th.
JUDGE TINLEY: Courthouse is closed.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can't deliver
them -- is there a possibility they can hand-deliver?
Always a possibility.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. With some of the
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local ones, it's probably a reality, the way they would do
it.
JUDGE TINLEY: I guess the other thing that
we could do is find out from the Treasurer's office how
many --
MS. SOVIL: It isn't the Treasurer; that went
to the Auditor's office.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. How many -- how many of
these packets were picked up?
MS. SOVIL: One that we know of that went to
TAC.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know they'll be
here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, we need to
try and notify them.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: There was only one packet
picked up?
MS. SOVIL: That's what Mindy told me. They
send it out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can be in here on
Monday.
MS. PIEPER: Have the courthouse open on the
10th, since the actual holiday's on the 11th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then we have to staff it.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Courthouse is going
to be open on the holiday; we're going to be taking off the
day before. We're shutting down, 'cause that's what we
adopted.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're closed the wrong
day.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For the schools.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just to help the schools.
We should know better.
MS. SOVIL: Doesn't help me; I don't have
anybody in school.
MS. LAVENDER: That's why y'all are havinq
the Commissioners Court meeting, and they're having the V.A.
stuff that day.
COMMISSTONER BALDWIN: So, how do you want --
how are we going to handle it, oh Great White Leader?
JUDGE TINLEY: I just heard reference that
you were in charge. Someone said you were.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Be here Monday.
I don't know how --
MS. SOVIL: We'll have to post a meeting,
then.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, we will. That's
not a big deal. My god, it's not like this is rocket
science or anything. Just do it. Do we have to be here
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have a meeting?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, let's do it by
phone. Do we have to be here to receive the documents? It
says they shall be opened. Where's Motley? Does that mean
they shall be opened? Or they sort of be opened?
JUDGE TINLEY: To be opened on the 10th at
10 a.m.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that mean?
Is that a legal terminology that says we shall open them?
JUDGE TINLEY: Looks to me like it's pretty
specific.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'll be here
Monday to help you open them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good. That's what we need.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. We need one
more guy to be here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be here if you need
me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Letz will be here, so
we need to post a meeting for Monday. What time's the mail?
Do they send them by mail, or do they bring them in or what
do they do? Does Tommy already have it today?
MS. SOVIL: They usually wait till the last
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minute and they come running in here at 5 minutes to 9:00,
if that's what time they're due. They'll come running in
with their packet.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do it at 9:00?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Will be received
until 9 a.m. nn the --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll just have to be --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- 10th of November.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because the courthouse
will be closed, we'1i just have to unlock these doors to
this building and just make it, you know --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be here at 9:00.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lock it up when we leave.
JUDGE TINLEY: Needs to be somebody here at
8:00.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 8:00?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be here at 8:00.
JUDGE TINLEY: Beginning of business. And
then 9:00, of course -- after that, it doesn't make any
difference. We could -- the bids have got to be tendered by
9 o'clock.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we could -- we
could open them and just -- 'cause there's going to be three
of us. Just open them and hand them to the clerk and take
care of the actual business the following day.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the holiday.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On the holiday that
we're going to be here anyway. We're going to be here in
Commissioners Court. Can we do that? We can either recess
it or actually add an agenda item to the Tuesday agenda.
MS. SOVIL: Consider and discuss awarding of
the bid or rejection of same.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only hang-up now is
getting a clerk in here.
MS. PIEPER: And the court reporter.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And a court reporter.
Well, she -- she doesn't mind riding along with us. We're
going out to have dinner afterwards.
MS. PIEPER: Are you buying?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's a real pertinent
question. I'm glad you asked that. Let's get his answer on
the record, if we might. Reporter's waiting. Any further
business? Everybody bailed out; I guess we're adjourned.
(Discussion off the record.)
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 4:42 p.m.)
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61
STATE OF TEXAS ~
COUNTY OF KERR ~
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 5th day of November,
2003.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y : __ ___`_~____ __
Kathy nik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
_~-3-03
ORDER N0.28390
APPROVED PROPOSED OSSF RULES AND REGULATIONS
On this the 3'~ day of November 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Nicholson,
Seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-1 to
approve the proposed OSSF rules and regulations and authorize Judge Tinley to sign
same.
Order No. 28391
PROPOSED OSSF RULES AND REGULATIONS LETTER TO TCEQ
On this the 3rd day of November 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz,
Seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-
0 to authorize Judge Tinley to send a letter to TCEQ that contains working that Kerr
County is the ONLY authorized agent for OSSF Matters for Kerr County, except for
those areas within incorporated municipalities.
ORDER N0.28392
APPROVAL OF HIRING OF PERSONNEL FOR
KERR COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT
Manager/Field Representative
On this the 3`d day of November 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Nicholson,
Seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0
to hire amanager-slash-field representative positions, and two clerk positions and that the
manager/field rep position be offered to Miguel Arreola at a salary of $31,000.
ORDER N0.28393
APPROVAL OF HIRING OF PERSONNEL FOR
KERR COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT
Administrative Clerk Position
On this the 3Td day of November 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Nicholson,
Seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to
Offer a administrative clerk position to Patricia S. Hulett in the Environmental Health
Department at a grade and step of 17-7, with a salary of $27,327, this offer being
contingent upon her acceptance of the requirement that she obtain proper licensing or
certification to become a O.S.S.F. field inspector.
ORDER NO. 28394
APPROVAL OF HIRING OF PERSONNEL FOR
KERR COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT
Clerical Position
On this the 3`a day of November 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Nicholson,
Seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to
Offer a clerical position in the Environmental Health Department to Judy K. Carr at a
step and grade of 15-5, annual salary, $23,563, and further that the offer be on the
condition that she agree to obtain proper licensing or certification as an O.S.S.F. field
inspector.

ORDER N0.28395
ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH DEPARTMENT
EFFECTIVE DATE FOR EMPLOYMENT
On this the 3Td day of November 2003 upon motion made by Commissioner Letz,
Seconded by Commissioner Nicholson, the Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-
0 to approve the employment date for the Manager/Field Representative and two clerks to
be effective At beginning of the business day
on November 3, 2003.