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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
and
KERRVILLE CITY COUNCIL
City/County Joint Programs Workshop
Friday, May 6, 2005
8:00 a.m.
District Court Jury Room # 1
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
P R E S E N T
Kerr County Commissioners Court:
PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4
Kerrville City Council:
STEPHEN P. FINE, Mayor
DAVID WAMPLER, Mayor Pro Tem
OLLIE D. BROWN, Place 1
LARRY W. HOWARD, Place 2
EUGENE C. SMITH, Place 4
DON DAMS, Interim Assistant City Manager
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I N D E X

Call to Order
1. Consider, discuss and possible action on Jointly
Owned/Operated Facilities or Programs including,
but not limited to:
a. Kerrville/Kerr County Municipal Airport
b. EMS and Fire Suppression
c. Community Recycling Center
d. Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library
e. Animal Control
Adjourned
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On Friday, May 6, 2005, at 8:00 a.m., a special joint
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court and Kerrville
City Council was held in the District Court Jury Room # 1,
Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the following
proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and
gentlemen. Let me call to order the special joint
Commissioners Court and City Council meeting between those
two bodies posted for this time and date, Friday, May the
6th, 2005, at 8 a.m. It is past that time now, so we need
to try and get on down to business. The -- the agenda, as
posted by the Commissioners Court, was to consider, discuss,
and possible action on jointly-owned/operated facilities or
programs, including, but not limited to, the Kerrville/Kerr
County Municipal Airport, EMS and Fire Suppression,
Community Recycling Center, Butt-Holdsworth Memorial
Library, and Animal Control. I had anticipated that we
might be able to move into some of the subject matter of
these items. I received an e-mail from the Kerrville City
Manager yesterday -- correction. Actually, it -- well, I
got it yesterday; it came in after 5:00 on Wednesday, that
the City Manager indicated that, in his mind, the purpose
and intent of the meeting for this Friday is for the two
bodies to discuss the process that will be used from that
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point forward in dealing with those joint issues, contracts,
I would note that -- I think it was week
before last, that I furnished information to -- no, it was
last week, actually, that I furnished information on Animal
Control services, some financial and activity reports for
the facility that the County operates, along with some
proposed meeting dates that resulted in this particular
meeting being scheduled. That is the only facility of the
joint activities that's operated by Kerr County. I thought
it beneficial that y'all had whatever information that we
have. Yesterday, we received from the City representatives
some information relative to the emergency medical services
agreement, some explanatory data, and a proposed interlocal
agreement for emergency medical services. I don't know the
extent to which members of the Commissioners Court have been
able to review that information. I was able to take a
little bit of time to do so. I have a number of questions
about some of that information, but if we're not going to
get into the substance of these particular operations or --
or facilities, maybe I need to understand where -- where you
guys are coming from.
MAYOR FINE: Like I said, this is more really
designed to discuss how the process is going to go.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you need to --
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MAYOR FINE: He said -- the way he opened it,
calling both of us, was sufficient.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted to make
sure it was legal.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me, if I might -- before
you start, we've got a court reporter here taking a
transcript, and for anyone that speaks, if they'd be kind
enough to -- anyone other than the Court; obviously, she's
familiar with those people. If they'd be kind enough to
identify themselves so she's got a good, clean record, I'd
appreciate it. Thank you. I apologize, Mr. Mayor.
MAYOR FINE: Stephen Fine, Mayor, City of
Kerrville. This was really designed to discuss the policy
and -- not policy. The procedures, 'cause we had talked
about that in the past, about setting up some particular
committees and to review how things were handled. I think
we wanted to break it down at some point in time to look at
how the different processes were being handled, and it
really wasn't meant to discuss the actual in-depth budget.
We don't have it yet. We're not that -- at that point in
our process. It's just the beginning of May, and we're just
not there yet. The meetings we have held with y'all in the
past have, I believe, generally been held in June. June or
even July, possibly. And with some of the changes going on
around City Hall -- the processes will go on whether or not
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Mr. Patterson is there or not, but we just -- we do not have
the full budget to actually hand to you.
The figures we've given on EMS are -- are
based largely on what's happened in the past and what we can
project into the future. They're -- they're solid figures.
You know, we've got years worth of records, you know, about
10 years worth of data on EMS, so it's not something that's
just pulled out of thin air. I don't know how else to put
it. I don't know what part of those -- those figures you
would like to discuss or feel that maybe we need to discuss
it later in context with fire protection and do it all at
one time. There have been some changes in, you know, how
the City handles EMS -- not handles, but the way and how
money's being collected. Medicare/Medicaid has hurt us
drastically. There have been some changes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Steve, let me say
something here, talking about how -- how that we conduct our
meetings if we have meetings together. I mean, to me,
that's the reason we're here today.
MAYOR FINE: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I want to start
off by saying, you know, there's -- there's a gap here
between the City and the County. There's some -- some bad
feelings and some feelings hurt and all those things. And I
just want to say if -- you know, if I caused any of that, I
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want to apologize to the City, and get that out of the way.
This is the people's business. You know, we -- we really
don't have any choice. We need to lay down our personal
stuff and move forward as a body; the two bodies coming
together, and move forward as a body, because it's the
taxpayers' business, and sometimes it angers me that we Nave
to take on little personal issues. But I like -- to get
down to the bottom line, I like the way that y'all have done
it before, and I appreciate and I know there's a tremendous
amount of hours that the staff puts into the program,
preparing all that paperwork for us and all those numbers.
I like that. I like to go to the meeting and be presented
-- I mean, some of it bores me to tears, but I -- that's the
only way I'm going to get all the information. You know, I
think where we bog down is that, you know, we're kind of the
redneck side, and we -- okay, me. Okay. (Laughter.) Okay,
there's just one of us. All right.
There's got to be questions. There's things
that I don't understand. I'll speak for me; there's things
that I don't understand. I have to ask questions. And
sometimes I know that those questions appear to be maybe
intrusive, or you all feel like, you know, "Here's the
information. Don't you understand this stuff? Why are you
asking all these questions?" And -- but I've got to. I've
got to ask the questions, because I don't understand all of
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it. I'm trying to be honest here and lay everything out on
the table. So, you know, if -- if we are offensive by
asking questions, then we really do have a problem, because
we have to ask questions. There are questions -- I mean,
there's things that we don't see and don't understand, and
have to -- and so the -- you have to ask questions to get
those answers.
MAYOR FINE: Right. Buster, I don't think
anybody's going to argue about the question asking, because
we do the same thing. And I think, in the past,
personalities have been brought into this. It's -- there's
an inherent difference in the two governments. We have a
staff that does the work and presents it to us, just like
it's presented to y'all. But we're also not full-time
employees. I mean, you know, we get 50 bucks a month to do
our meetings, and that's it. And -- and you guys have to do
your own budget, your own districts, and y'all have to work
individually with each one of them, and for y'all it's a
job, almost like the staff, and what y'all do. I don't mean
that in a bad way or good way or otherwise.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true.
MAYOR FINE: It's the different nature of the
beast. Your numbers, you probably understand them better
because you put them together. Our numbers are presented to
us, just like they are to you. And, you know, the
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difference in the past, when -- we got our books in the past
at the same time y'all did. I know it's been felt that we
got them weeks ahead of time. That's not the case. They've
been handed to us probably within -- everybody on
Commissioners Court and City Council got them within 24
hours of each other. And the difference in time would be
who was closest to City Hall when they were being handed out
and who was the last person on the route, but other than
that, there hasn't been a big difference. And I think that
it hasn't been the actual asking of the questions; I think
at times it's just been the nature of the way the questions
were asked. And -- and I don't think right now is really
appropriate to get into that. I think if we're going to
move forward, we don't need to dwell on the past. We have
some new Council members; we have some new Commissioners,
and I think we need to look at where we are now and move
forward, because arguing about the past, we all saw it in
different -- from different angles, and I think we're all
sorry the way things have happened, and I'd like it to work
better too.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. That's good.
MAYOR FINE: I think in -- I think, you know,
there are some differences in our -- our governments, the
way they both work, and we need to recognize those, and
instead of arguing about it, just recognize that it's there
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and move on down the road. And we -- we're -- some of these
programs, we're joined at the hip from now on. Other ones,
you know, there -- there may be ways -- you guys have taken,
like, you know, the Animal Control. Well, we used to have
separate ones, and now we've been able to work together on
some of this stuff. And I think the more we can do to
simplify all of it, it would be a lot easier. And -- and
that's -- it gets out of -- it gets away from negotiating
little, bitty minor details instead of maybe -- you know,
like the EMS contract. We would be a contractor, period.
You know, you tell us the level of service you desire, and
we give you a price for that level of service, instead of it
coming down to individual numbers and individual county
runs. And if the cost of gas goes up, it's our problem that
year, because we bid it too low, just like it would be any
other contractor. But I think some of this stuff, we just
need to put it behind ourselves and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Steve, I think -- if I
can interject something, I agree with almost everything you
were saying, and I think you did -- I mean, it's very
important that everyone, you know, understands the
differences in the government. But where the -- I think the
disconnect has happened in the prior meetings is that --
that we -- you know, everyone gets presented the budget at
the same time. The Council has had -- on the City
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operation, the City-operated ones, has had some input, from
a policy standpoint, from the staff, but we've never had the
contact with the staff. I think what's going to have to
happen for us to understand those budgets is for the
Commissioners to have contact with the staff so we
understand the policy going into the budget that's being
generated. I think that's what's causing the difficulty.
Because, as you said, you know, we do get very involved with
that. We set the policy, and we do the --
MAYOR FINE: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the numbers, whereas
the City sets the policy and the staff does the numbers.
So, I think it's a -- you know, to keep -- you know, and
that's been, I think, what has caused the difficulty. And
the other part of the difficulty, in my mind, is that for a
while we were having one -- maybe one a year, two meetings,
but we meet very seldom, so every -- well, we have a whole
lot of questions built up over a year, and so it's our one
opportunity to really get them answered, so we probably
discuss too much. And that's why I think the -- I mentioned
to the City Manager before, the way the airport issue was
resolved, to me, was a very good way. It was a way for both
bodies to have representatives that were communicating back
and forth, and when it got to the point of the decisions
being made -- Council made and the Commissioners Court made,
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the committees never made any decisions. They just talked
it up, came up, and it was -- you know, it came out with a
recommendation to them that was discussed on both bodies.
So, to me, that works a lot better than just having one
meeting. The one meeting, I think, is just an overview,
kind of a culmination of the process.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there's an
erroneous perception out in the -- in the community that we
fail to get together and don't do things together and we're
constantly lobbying nuclear devices up and down Highway 27.
The reality of that is, that is not true. We work together
on a lot of things. And what Commissioner Letz just cited
in terms of the airport, I think, is a classic example of
the ability to take a very difficult issue and shape it and
make it come out to the benefit of both sides of the
equation, and I think -- I think that applies all up and
down the line. Each one of these things that we do
together -- well, we fund together -- are important to the
community, and I think it's important also that we get on
with it. Now, sometimes I think -- as Commissioner Letz
pointed out, sometimes there are questions behind the
numbers, and sometimes, by asking those questions, somebody
gets upset that the -- you know, the numbers are supposed to
speak for themselves. Quite often that's not the case. The
numbers do not speak for themselves. And there are issues
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and there are -- certainly, every time there's an issue
behind a number, there certainly is an answer. And so, you
know, I think it's imperative that we -- that we set aside
any -- any dislike for asking questions so that we can get
down to the reality of these issues and make them happen.
MAYOR FINE: Well, and I think there are some
alternatives to even the way -- I mean, even with the
airport. You know, the airport, there are districts that
could be set up as far as taxing goes, and that way all the
money would come out of one pool instead of two pools.
There's -- you could do the same thing with the library
district. That would be a county-wide library district that
everybody in the county would pay their fair share evenly.
And I think there's -- there's ways we can handle a lot of
these -- or not a lot of these, but some of these, where
it -- there wouldn't be any question. You've got a board
that -- this is where the money comes from; it's not your
money or my money, City's money or the County's money. It's
the library's money.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Frankly, in terms of
the library, that's a good approach.
MAYOR FINE: And the same thing with the
airport. Actually, it could be done the same way, to where
it doesn't come down to us having to collect it and us -- I
mean, there are easier ways to do some of this than the way
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we're doing it, and even with ownership of some of the
properties -- I mean, you guys own the land under the
Recycle Center; we own the building. But if we move, the
building stays. And then I think Animal Control, we get
credit on a sewer line that's run up there, but you guys do
the service. I think maybe if we'd sit down and do some
trading, we could -- we could clean up a lot of this stuff,
where all of our books would be easier at the end of the
year, and to get away from all these little, bitty
nitpicking numbers that go back and forth. And I think
there's a lot of clean-ups that could be done pretty easily.
I mean, I'm -- I'm not a lawyer or a C.P.A., but some of
it's relatively easy to figure out.
JUDGE TINLEY: Your lawyer is wanting to say
15 something here.
16
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MR. BROWN: Well, not really. There's our
JUDGE TINLEY: Well --
MR. BROWN: Ollie Brown. I brought with me
today a copy of what we did two years ago when we had our
last joint City/County joint program budget and everything.
And, as Stephen has said, you know, there's a whole bunch --
a rash of information in here. And, for instance -- and
I've talked to Commissioners Williams and Letz about this.
Here is just -- all these pages are just on the
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Butt-Holdsworth Memorial Library, and I guarantee you that
every nickel and every dime that was spent and was proposed
to be spent is set forth in these numerous pages. I have
been confused over time when statements have been made that
you didn't get any information. You got as much information
as we got, and you got it, as Stephen says, at the same time
we did. I think we -- if you gentlemen will recall, we did,
as a result of that last meeting, come up with a -- a
proposal to ask the City Manager to draft something up on
the Airport Board and to do that, and ultimately that's what
we were able to accomplish, I think, which I think is a
very, very good thing.
One of the things, Jonathan, is, here again,
we've got the ethics -- or not the ethics, but the work
ethics, if you will, of the two organizations. You're
saying you want to talk to staff. I don't talk to staff.
I've only got three employees as a Councilperson -- or the
Council; Mike, the City Manager, and the judge. I mean,
that's -- the municipal judge. If I want some
information -- if we want some information, normally we go
through and see the Manager or the Assistant City Manager,
and that's the way the system works. But we do give -- we
do provide a whole bunch of information, and I suggest that
you contract the information that we -- the City had
provided in terms of EMS, fire, all the other things. We
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have the information contained in this booklet on Animal
Control which the County provided to the City. And I'm not
trying to create an argument; I'm just trying to say we've
got to recognize where we're coming from. And I -- I, for
one, would think that it would be good to go back to a
system of meeting on occasion, and -- but the point is, we
can't give you the numbers before we get them, before
they're generated. And you -- you get them at the same time
we get them. And that whole purpose of that workshop was to
allow people to ask any questions they wanted to, and at
that point, we did have staff there and they were able to
answer questions.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. And I
think the library's a good example. I've never sat on the
Library Board, so I'm asking this question. I don't know
what the -- how -- we have a liaison to the Library Board.
The answer we received back from the City numerous times is,
"You have a liaison; you should know those things." Does
that Library Board run the library totally? They do the
budget?
MR. BROWN: Absolutely not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Advisory board.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. So --
okay, that's what I thought: So it's an advisory board, so
how does the Commissioners Court, as a body -- `cause
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we're -- I have no authority as an individual commissioner.
How does the Commissioners Court get with the airport -- or
the library manager to discuss, you know, what his
long-range plans are? I mean, there's lots of things that
cannot be reduced to numbers.
MR. WAMPLER: Jonathan, I think what we're
trying to say here is that we don't talk to the library --
we do not go to Antonio and talk to him about his long-range
plans. We do have an opportunity to hear about his
long-range plans at our budget workshop that we have
midsummer, you know, August. So, we don't go to Antonio and
sit down with him. It's not to say that we couldn't. I
guess we could, but that's just really not how -- how it
works. We talk to Ron, and -- and we go to those meetings
and we listen to that. And that meeting, by the way, is an
open meeting, so if a couple of commissioners wanted to
come, they could come and sit in on that meeting to listen
to see what our process is and our priorities are. Members
of the public can come in and do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's the point.
Ron talks to Antonio, but we don't get -- but we are the
equivalent of Ron and you, and we don't get to talk to
Antonio as a body. I mean, 'cause it takes five of us to --
I mean, I can't -- and that's where the -- that's where we
don't get the information.
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MR. BROWN: That's where we've got the
difference in our -- in our whole makeup.
MAYOR FINE: Right.
MR. BROWN: And from the Constitution of the
State of Texas -- which did a terrible job in establishing
counties within the state of Texas, and I think everybody
understands that. And -- and you and I aren't going to
change it anytime soon.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. So, I guess what
I'm saying is that, you know, is Council going to be
comfortable with Commissioners Court meeting with Antonio?
'Cause I don't see any other way that we're going to
understand the library.
MAYOR FINE: Well, I think what David is
saying is, actually, it should go through Ron.
MR. WAMPLER: Well, it should go through the
City Manager and/or Council, because at the end of the day,
Antonio provides us with information and we make the
decision.
MAYOR FINE: But we don't --
MR. WAMPLER: Antonio's not making any
decisions.
MAYOR FINE: We don't get a budget every week
from the library, either.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that, but --
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I don't wart to micromanage the library or any other entity,
but I think when we get into the long-term direction, that
decision is being made between --
MR. WAMPLER: That decision is being made by
COMMISSIONER
by the County and Council.
have no way to get into the
into that process.
MR. WAMPLER:
a liaison in the meetings.
Council members. You have
Manager.
LETZ: Well, it should be made
But it -- but we're not -- we
process. We have no way to get
Well, you guys have -- you have
You have an ability to contact
an ability to contact the City
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a liaison that
goes to the board, which are appointed as an advisory board.
MAYOR FINE: And, actually, that Library
Board probably gets more information than most of Council
does. I guarantee you, they do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Ron is in the loop.
Y'all keep leaving Ron out, and we are Ron.
MR. BROWN: Well --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's where the problem
comes in.
MR. BROWN: Vis-a-vis the library advisory
board, I've been on it since I`ve been on the Council, and
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the point is that Antonio goes to every one of those
meetings, and your -- your representative could ask any
question he wants to ask. And if you want to post it and
bring the whole -- whole Commissioners Court there, I see no
reason why you couldn't.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That sounds pretty
good, but I've served on that board for about six years, and
the reality of it is, that's not usually what happens. The
report from the director -- and I'm kind of -- I'm really
kind of sorry that we got on this as an individual issue,
but it seems to have a -- we seem to be focused on it for a
few minutes, anyhow. The report that comes down is pretty
perfunctory, pretty casual, pretty superficial. And I don't
recall ever, in six years, where the actual budget of the
library was shared with the advisory board.
MR. BROWN: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So the question is,
how do you ask the question behind the numbers? That's the
question.
MAYOR FINE: But you're being given the same
information we are, because we're not getting that report
either.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe you should ask
that question.
MAYOR FINE: Well, we do at budget time when
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it comes around.
MR. WAMPLER: The numbers are right here in
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: David --
MR. WAMPLER: You've been provided --
MAYOR FINE: I tell you what, instead of
focusing on why it's broke, because it's been that way for a
lot of years, why don't we try to figure out a way to fix
it? And I think the way the airport was fixed, or that
board, might be what needs to happen with the library. And
even the same thing with funding, like I said a few minutes
ago. Instead of your money and my money and arguing about
this and that, why doesn't a library district be formed
that's county-wide? The library was designed to serve the
entire county. If satellite libraries are desired to be
built, it would be handled through that board and that --
and that library tax.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that concept
has a lot of merit.
MAYOR FINE: And I think that, you know, that
would eliminate arguments at budget time, because that
budget -- you know, you would -- you would report directly
to whoever it is that's going to be running it, whether it's
Antonio or -- it's going to be the same way if the City
contracts it or the County contracts it and they become
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Antonio's boss. I mean, I don't think that's -- it would be
the same way with -- you know, with the airport. I think
the airport funding, that's another way to look at doing
that, is setting up an airport district that does the same
thing the library district does. At the end of the day, the
taxes all come from the same place, the citizens, and it's
just a matter of how they're going to be collected. And,
actually, it would give the citizens more of a direct input
into -- into each one of these. If they're more interested
in doing improvements at the library, they could go directly
to -- that Library Board would be the one that would levy
that tax rate.
MR. BROWN: Judge?
MAYOR FINE: Not us or you, but them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree.
MR. BROWN: There is a bill in the -- as I
informed Commissioners Nicholson and Williams, there is a
bill in the Legislature right now to authorize library
districts for the first time in Texas. It's really aimed at
Bexar County and -- and down there. The way that the bill
is now written, it wouldn't accommodate us, I don't think,
here in Kerr County, but perhaps if we -- if we got with our
legislative delegation, it could be amended before it passed
to satisfy problems that I'm sure would arise between here
and Kerr County on that. And I think it's a great future
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possibility, given the marriage that was foisted upon both
the City and the County years ago by the Butt -- by
Mr. Butt.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, of course, if -- of
course, any -- any library district that may be authorized
and would be self-supporting would have to be approved by
referendum, certainly for taxing powers.
MR. BROWN: Sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: To be self-supporting. But --
and that may be a real possibility and an option that we
want to look at. But I think right now, we've got things
that are more critical from a time standpoint in front of
us, and if -- if we're here to try and determine a process,
number one, I -- I found -- I found this very helpful,
extremely helpful, to -- to try and find out what I needed
to know. Certainly, there were additional questions that I
had, and I asked a lot of additional questions when we had
our joint workshop. But if -- if our purpose here today is
to find a process by which we're going to go forward in
order to try and find a resolution to these various joint
functions and operations, you know, we made a proposal -- or
the Court directed me to make a proposal back in early
March. I made that proposal on how to proceed, and for some
reason, that was something that did not seem appropriate to
Council. What -- what process do you --
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(Discussion off the record.)
MAYOR FINE: I think it was felt that we've
already got -- or have committees in place. There's already
an Airport Board. Now, the Library Board may not be the
animal that we want. And Animal Control, I don't think
there's ever been any argument on the City's part as far as
how y'aIl have handled that or the price. We felt we've
gotten a fair service for a fair price. The Recycling
Center, there again, that's something we talked about. We
can eliminate -- I mean, that thing is open to all county
residents at the same time it's open to everybody in the
city. And I think there's some ways we could make life
easier; like I said, doing a property swap or purchase or
whatever on that. And the same thing with Animal Control.
You know, seems to me it all comes down to EMS and fire.
JUDGE TINLEY: Am I hearing from you that
basically what you're proposing as a process is that once
you get all of your numbers together on your various
functions that you perform, we'll have another joint session
with a compilation suctl as this that we've had in past
years, and see what -- how we can go forward on that basis?
Is that what I'm hearing?
MAYOR FINE: If that's what we need to do, we
can do that. But I think it's also prudent on the part of
the -- particularly Commissioners Court, if you have a
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question ahead of time that you're not clear on as you're
reading it, you can always call the Assistant City Manager.
I don't think there's anything in the document that says, if
you need a clarification while you're reading it, that you
couldn't have called. That might have helped before we got
to the meeting. Like I said, that's what I've done, and I'm
sure other members of the Council have done it. And I think
that's one of the complaints, that you feel like you haven't
been able to do that or haven't felt comfortable doing that.
I don't think there'd be a problem on that at all.
Speaking of the City Manager, I should have
done this earlier. This is Don Davis; he's going to be our
Interim Assistant City Manager. I don't know if y'all have
had the opportunity to meet him. Don's going to be filling
in -- or not filling in for Ron; taking Ron's place. So,
I'm sorry to throw this in real quick, but I made a note
here to do it, and didn't make it. But I think, you know,
y'all should feel free to call -- like I said, it would be
Don, you know, to find out the answers to those questions
before going into the meeting, and it might make the meeting
more efficient. If there's something that you see in there
that just glares at you, we could -- we could have the
answer before we even get there.
And the way we handle that on City Council
is, if anyone calls Ron or e-mails Ron or Mike, the response
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to that question, along with the question, is e-mailed to
all five of us so we know what question was asked and what
the answer was. And that's the way it's been handled for --
well, since Ron's been here. It keeps us all abreast as to
what questions are being asked, and maybe we've had the same
question and just hadn't asked it yet, but it gives us the
opportunity to see, you know, what -- what questions or
concerns are going on out there, and how they're being
handled. So, that may be a process that might work best
here also. And I don't know legally if we can -- you guys
can do that or not with regards to information dispersing or
something. I don't know if you guys are under the same
rules we are.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think each of us could
individually ask whatever --
MAYOR
JUDGE
whatever concerns we
that is, disseminate
the other members of
difficult --
FINE: Right.
TINLEY: -- questions or express
have, and then, depending upon what
the questions and/or the responses to
the Court. I don't think that's a
MAYOR FINE: Ron does that for us. I mean,
that's just the process in keeping us all abreast of
who's -- I mean, what's going on and what questions are
being asked. Most of the time, we've all got the same
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questions. And lots of -- you know, we -- maybe I just
haven't had time to sit down and type the e-mail yet. You
open it up, there's the answer to your question. But, I
mean, that's totally up to you. If you want to do it
dividually, I have no problem. I don't necessarily want to
read every question everybody has, either. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I have --
let me make sure I understand what you were saying. And
airport, I think everyone agrees, is operating fine right
now. We've got -- it's pretty much being run by the board
with input from the two owners. Animal Control and
Recycling are kind of similar animals, in that they're kind
of joint-owned facilities. You're looking at -- a good idea
for tkiose two would be to clean those up, make the County
own one or both and City own one or both, and quit having
this joint ownership of the property.
MAYOR FINE: Just clean it up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have one operate it and
then do an interlocal agreement with the other.
MAYOR FINE: Pretty much.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Library, we're
talking about primarily, I guess, enhancing the authority of
the Library Board.
MAYOR FINE: I think making it similar to
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, do it --
MR. BROWN: That's a long-range deal.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. You have to --
but -- well, it certainly won't be done this budget year,
but it could be done by next budget year, but more like
we're running the airport. I think we have -- probably have
the ability to do it. I don't know why you couldn't run it
that way, without having to go to both legal staffs to look
at that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The taxing aspect,
that's going to take a little longer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that -- even
without the taxing aspect, I think you could be -- you know,
the financial -- it could be run the same way as the
airport, is that the financial decisions have to go back to
the two owners. You could do that. And then EMS and fire,
clearly, that's something that the County doesn't really --
can't even get into. It's something that the City has to
do, and we have to look at, you know, coming into an
interlocal agreement on that one that we're both happy with,
or the County can try something else if we can't come to an
agreement. So, that's kind of -- the EMS and fire, it`s
kind of like the library. We really need to sit down and do
a new way to operate.
MAYOR FINE: Well, it's not like the library.
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We own the library together.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MAYOR FINE: And the other way -- I think,
you know, the way I look at it is the County needs to let us
know what level of service is desired.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MAYOR FINE: I mean, if service -- if
enhanced service is desired. If you guys want an ambulance
station full-time and staffed out in Hunt, we can do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MAYOR FINE: But, you know, the cost is going
to have to reflect how that's going to happen. And the same
thing with Center Point. And that's -- that's, I think, a
lot of where we were in the past, is some of this hasn't
been clearly defined. We've got a contract that's been just
renewed and renewed and renewed and renewed, and it's to the
point now where we need to sit down and actually explain
things or have things defined a little bit better. And that
way, if the County is not happy with the price the City has,
they have an opportunity to go somewhere else, if that's
what we want to do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other point
that just --
MAYOR FINE: We don't want that to happen.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure, I understand.
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MAYOR FINE: That's not what we're trying --
we're not trying to run you guys off. We're not trying to
gouge anybody, and we're not making any profit. I guarantee
you, we're not making a profit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things that --
I mean, this is more for the people in the audience; I think
everyone at the table understands this, that there are
contracts for all of these. The problem is, the contracts
have not been renegotiated for, in most cases, over 10
years, and during that 10-year period, a lot has changed.
So -- and that -- and I think the friction between the
Council and the -- the Commissioners Court started with, you
know, changes wanting to be made outside the contract. And
the Commissioners Court pretty much -- the City operates
more than we do. So, pretty much, there are contracts, and
we're getting this year to the point that those contracts
are being negotiated, which is needed, but I think that's a
-- you know, for the future, it's a very bad policy, in my
mind, just to have an automatic renewal on these contracts,
because that's what created the problem we got to today.
And the things have gotten to the point that it was -- all
of a sudden, the City says, "Whoa, time out. We're paying
way too much on this, and this wasn't the intent." But no
one renegotiated the contract that was in place many, many
years ago, and I think that's a mistake. And on the
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airport, we put that it's -- it's automatically renewed for
a while, but then there has to be more of a discussion at a
certain point.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think after five
years, we have to take a look.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, five years, look at
the government side of that. I think that should be
included in all these contracts, 'cause I think that is
what's happened.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to go back
to something Stephen -- Mayor -- said. I want to
congratulate Dave for coming in here -- it's a timed
entrance. He came in right after the library discussion was
over, and he's now -- he's now the representative --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was just standing
at the doorway.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- County's
representative to the library. But some of the points you
made, I think, are valid, and for another reason. As we all
know, the Friends of the Library have engaged themselves,
and I believe have funded a study to determine the scope of
the library as we move forward. Everybody acknowledges that
it's maxed out in terms of its current facility. So, you
know, once that study is completed, those folks who have a
real vested interest in the library, as do the rest of us,
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are going to be looking to these two governing bodies to
determine how to move forward, and so I think that's another
reason why the initiative that yoU threw out on the table
makes a lot of sense, because when that happens and the
library is expanded, that's going to change the dynamics of
each of our relationships in terms of the number of dollars
that are going to be required to support it. And so, you
know, I think that it behooves us to really perhaps put
together a task force on that -- on that topic and see
what -- what's necessary to change the whole role, similar
to what we did with the library -- I mean with the airport.
MR. BROWN: As you know, Bill, there's a lot
of unscrambling of eggs got to take place --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure.
MR. BROWN: -- in connection with all that,
on account of the history center and the genealogy center
and the building in between.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely.
MR. BROWN: All of that sort of thing, which
is -- the County has had no financial involvement in up to
this point.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand, and
that's all part of the things that have to get addressed.
MAYOR FINE: Well, something Ollie mentioned
a while ago about pending legislation, I don't know how many
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days we have left to try to get something in there, but it
would be worth talking to our senator and representative to
see if the changes could be made.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
MAYOR FINE: Even if we don't do it, it would
-- if we don't contact them, it's going to be two years
before we can even think about doing it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I think it's well
worth the effort. We ought to --
MAYOR FINE: It's worth the effort to go
ahead and try to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Representative
Hilderbran and --
MAYOR FINE: -- make an option available to
us if it does come down the road, because that, to me, makes
more sense than anything with that board. If the board or
citizens want to add onto it, it may be in a year where the
City's not in a position to go an extra $100,000 or $200,000
into that fund, or the County may not be in that position to
do that, or the Commissioners or Council members don't
desire to do that. And I think if you had a board that
operated independently that ran the thing, I think that
would be more efficient with that particular animal.
MR. BROWN: Commissioner Letz is correct, you
know; no way we can do that right away. But, actually,
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Jonathan, it's probably a little bit longer than that,
because it may require a constitutional amendment, so what
I'm looking at is the possibility of three or four years of
having that authority. But it's apparently a doable thing,
because apparently people from Bexar County have got it
loaded and locked for the concept of a library -- library
district.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know about it
requiring a constitutional amendment, but it certainly
requires legislation.
MR. BROWN: There are people that --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this --
MR. BROWN: -- that indicate that, but they
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This session's over, I
can tell you. But -- and it would be two years. So, you're
looking at two years, three years before you could implement
something like that.
JUDGE TINLEY: If that bill is not yet
passed, be an amendment attached to it to include -- it's
limited in Bexar County -- to include other counties.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can try.
JUDGE TINLEY: At least we can get the
authorization. I realize --
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MAYOR FINE: It's worth sending a letter of
support from --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
MAYOR FINE: -- the Council and the
Commissioners Court. Be worth it.
JUDGE TINLEY: We're very, very late in the
game to get that done.
MAYOR FINE: Yeah.
MR. SMITH: I'd like to make a few
statements. I'm Gene Smith. I think we need to go back to
the -- the basic laws that establish the -- these services,
and -- and are there state laws that say this is the
boundary between the City and the County, and this is this
way and this is this way. I think we need to go back and
understand -- and, you know, I'm an amateur politician. You
guys on the Commissioners Court are professionals, but the
City Council are really amateur guys, and we come and go,
and -- and a lot of us really don't understand. And I'll --
you know, I'll say I don't understand the relationships and
the laws associated with where the County stands and where
the City stands and where the city limits is. What --
because the people in the city, I'm pretty sure they pay the
same county taxes as the people in the county. So, when you
say something is 50/50, well, the City does this and the
County does that. Well, some of my dollars pay for the --
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pay for the county stuff.
And, you know, instead of arguing about all
this, what I'd like -- like to know, are there any laws that
establish a relationship between the cities and counties in
this -- in this state? And if there are, are we abiding by
those? And then, these goods and services that we provide,
how much of them are required by law and how much of them
are required because of -- that, being good governments, we
want to provide these things, like the emergency service?
As I understand, that's not required by law, but it -- it's
a burden on -- on all the people here, and we ought to -- we
ought to have some way that it's -- that it's handled in a
fair and equitable manner. Like the library; I've heard
somebody say, "Well, the County says that's a city library,"
and all that stuff. Well, I think we need to forget all
this, "Is it county or city?" It's for the people of this
area. And -- but I know the city people pay more than
50 percent of -- of the cost of that. Which is okay.
Because I keep mentioning the jail, and
everybody says, "Well, you know, the City only pays this
much, because that's state law." Well, it seems like the
County is paying more than their fair share of the jail.
And I don't know how many of these other things are -- are
inequitable, but I think what we need to do -- you know, if
it was me doing it, I'd go through the City's money and
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allocate it to each of these things, and the County money
and allocate it, and you could see how much of the city
money goes towards the library and how much of the county
does, or the airport or the jail and so forth. There's --
there ''s probably inequities on both sides, and I'd hate to
say, "Well, y'all are a bunch of -- you're not paying your
fair share," and then forget the fact that maybe in another
instance, I might not be paying my fair share. I don't know
the answer to these things, but you have to be fair between
the two governments, and you have -- and we both have to be
fair to the citizens.
So, that's -- I'd like -- you know, I don't
know if there's any state -- any laws that that's set up,
you know, where a street stops and that's paid for by the
City, and the street goes out in the county and so forth.
It seems like that -- that at least me -- maybe I'm the only
guy that doesn't understand it, but it seems like you ought
to have an understanding of the complete relationship
between the City and County in everything, and then worry
about the -- the eight or nine or ten little things that
we're involved with. But if you could take the revenue
coming in on the -- whatever it is, 5.9 for the city and
whatever the county is, and allocate it to each of these
things, you could see what's equitable and what isn't, at
least in my opinion. It would -- so that's my two cent's
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worth. And I'll --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can make a quick
follow-up, one, Gene brought up the jail. And the jail, I
mean, a lot of it is -- that is governed by state law, a lot
of that. But the City does pay. They pay for, you know,
part of the bookings early on. I mean, the -- I don't know,
and -- but I don't know if there's an actual interlocal
agreement for that, and there should be.
MAYOR FINE: I don't think there is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There should be, and that
should be brought up on the table, too, as to what that is,
because that's another -- that is a joint -- and the City
does pay some, but certainly, the County pays by far more.
But -- and it's done under state law, primarily, but that's
another interlocal agreement that probably does need to be
looked at.
MR. SMITH: That's why it's important to know
what the state law is in each of these things.
MR. WAMPLER: Rusty, can I ask a question,
just while we're talking about the jail? The state law says
that we pay you until a prisoner's magistrated, up to that
point only; is that correct?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, unless he's a --
and I was just looking at Erath County's agreement, okay,
that they had, 'cause we hadn't had one. If it's filed in
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municipal court -- and Erath County's agreement with
Stephenville is $50 a day for all those that are filed in
municipal court, okay, whether it's state or not. But my
understanding is that most of the state law, until they're
magistrated, as long as it's on a state offense, okay, then
they are -- after magistration, they become the County's
responsibility. Before magistration, they're the City's
responsibility.
MR. WAMPLER: But am I correct, with the
City -- even though the state requirement is only until
they're magistrated, the City pays for them during -- for
the length of their stay, even beyond the time they're
magistrated?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The City pays actually
until they're magistrated, because if it's a city offense
like that, then we release it on P.R. bond automatically.
And then some of those, we have been charging -- I think
it's $37 a day compared to their contract while they're
serving out some of these city fines, if that's all they've
got. Now, if they've got a county court case and a city
court case, City doesn't get charged for them. County Court
pays for those. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But in the amount that
we're charging right now, it's -- it's done on a per die.n
basis. We charge for housing prisoners, but in reality, if
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you really look at it, the up-front cost of booking a
prisoner is lost in this, and there's no reimbursement to
the County for booking this prisoner, which is before
magistration. So, I mean, there's -- and, you know, that's
what Rusty and I were talking about. I'm liaison to the
jail, so I visit with Rusty a lot on all these issues,
trying to make sure that we're balanced. And so there
probably is an inequity in the jail that's, you know,
allowed under -- I mean, and that's why it probably needs to
be looked at, 'cause I think that, you know, the goal that I
think both bodies are striving for is to try to be as fair
as possible and be equal. I mean, we don't want one side
trying to subsidize the other.
MAYOR FINE: Gene, to answer some of your
questions, there are state laws on different ones. I mean,
like the landfill has to be provided, or trash service has
to be provided. In this case, the City currently owns it.
Seems like somewhere back in the history, the County may
have owned part of it; I have no idea. Some of these
ownerships, like on the airport, have gone back and forth
over the years. But if the -- if the City did not open the
landfill to the county, the County would have to provide for
trash service. But we work with them, and have for years,
and that's the way it should be. Just like the Recycle
Center; you don't have to have a recycle center, but it's in
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everybody's best interests to have one. Some of these --
fire and EMS, you know, if -- if you guys didn't contract
with us, you'd have to contract with somebody, wouldn't you?
Is it the County's responsibility to provide EMS service at
all?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No.
MAYOR FINE: Okay. See, some of those, it's
just being done because, like you said, it's a service to
the people. It's not required, but it is necessary. And I
think, you know, the State over the years has figured there
is a level of common sense in government, where they know
these things are needed, but they're not going to force you.
'Cause I think it's a no-brainer that you'd have to have
fire protection, EMS protection.
MR. SMITH: Yeah, I understand -- Gene Smith.
I understand that. But I was trying to -- to separate
what's required by law. And if it's required by law that
the law says that it has to be this way, well, then there's
no point in further discussions on that. But if it's -- if
it's just a -- I don't know. I doubt if the library is
required to be -- be furnished.
MAYOR FINE: I would not think so, but, like,
animal control is. If we didn't contract with the County,
we'd have to stand our own back up.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gene, I've always
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wanted to take a look at and lay on the table the things
that the Constitution requires us to do. You know, and
that's, like, police protection, fire protection, roads to
drive on.
MR. SMITH: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those things. And
then start taking a look at all the things we, through the
years, have piled on the taxpayers of -- of this county.
And I think we would be amazed. I'm going to get that done
before I leave here, so I'd better get in a hurry.
MAYOR FINE: Buster, you're not going
anywhere.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a new kid on the
block here. But I just think that would be amazing, and I
think that that's kind of what you're talking about. You
know, what does the Constitution require you guys to do, and
what have you added on?
MR. SMITH: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
embarrassed at what we've added on to
MR. BROWN: Yeah. But
that, beyond the Constitution, is all
the Legislature that we all gripe abo
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
too much money.
I think we would be
the taxpayers.
what we've also had is
those mandates from
ut.
That's fine. We spend
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Indigent health care,
indigent defense.
MR. BROWN: What I'm saying is that it gets
in the Constitution, as you know.
MAYOR FINE: Well, you guys have a lot of
things added on you that we don't. I acknowledge that. A
lot of things you guys have to take care of that are not in
our scope. And, like Mr. Brown said earlier, the animal of
the county government is not a pleasant thing to have to
deal with, and some of the things you guys have to deal
with, I'm glad we have a staff that deals with what we --
what we do have to deal with. But getting back to these
items here, it's the County's desire, then, to have
something similar to this put together and sit back down and
go through on our joint projects?
JUDGE TINLEY: Personally, I would --
MAYOR FINE: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I would like to have that.
MAYOR FINE: And then --
JUDGE
MAYOR
City's desire to let
want, and give us an
give a price that we
instead of -- 'cause
TINLEY: I find it very, very helpful.
FINE: -- the EMS, I believe it's the
us know what level of service y'all
opportunity to basically bid on that or
think we can provide that service for,
it -- that is not truly a joint
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project. I mean, we're a contractor. And I think it's in
our best interests of the City to provide -- this is what
it's going to cost us to do -- to provide the level of
service y'all want. And if you want -- if you want an
ambulance in Hunt, we'll -- we'll bid on putting an
ambulance in Hunt, manage that thing 24 hours a day.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Stephen, Mr. Wampler
and I met yesterday --
MAYOR FINE: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- over the issue, and
I will take it to the Commissioners Court, and we will come
out of Commissioners Court with something to present to you.
MAYOR FINE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very soon.
MAYOR FINE: And I would like to take a look
and get with the Court, maybe at that meeting, on looking a
little more in-depth at doing something with the Animal
Control, the property, the facility, and along with the
Community Recycle Center. I just think cleaning up some of
this stuff would be a very simple thing to do, and I think
it would be in our best interests to do that, and probably
y'all's.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's probably next
budget -- I mean, after the budget.
MAYOR FINE: Well, yeah, that's fine. But I
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just think it's something that we do need to take another
look at, or take a -- a deeper look into, and -- and --
'cause I don't think it's something that would affect either
one of our budgets greatly in doing some swapping there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- I would
recommend, really, the Commissioners Court and Council put
together a committee to do that, to look at those two
things. Otherwise, it's going to end up this time next
year, and we're going to --
MAYOR FINE: Be talking about it again.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we don't have the
committee to start moving it forward. 'Cause the airport
was an example; it took months and months to get that
agreement, and so those two are similar. You know, the
facilities aren't similar, but the situations are similar.
MAYOR FINE: This will be more of a horse
trade than a --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, trading back and
forth, figuring out who owns what, what the values are, and
then figuring out how to, you know --
MAYOR FINE: Yeah. That may be something
that would be easier to handle after budget; you're right.
MR. SMITH: Gene Smith again. One of the
things that I hear conflict, you're not getting timely
information for things. Well, that seems like it should be
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something that should be resolved without any problems. You
say you -- I don't know when you have to do your budget or
when we have to do our budget, but it -- it seems like we
ought to work hand-in-glove on getting the information back
and forth in a timely manner.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I guess
the -- going back to the information thing, I guess the only
thing that we can hopefully ask you all to do, from my
standpoint, is to direct the City Manager that -- and Dave's
liaison to the library; you know, that they take the time,
and I'm sure they will, but to meet with Antonio, and a
little bit ahead of the budget book being prepared, so we
have a little more input and more understanding, and then we
can get back -- you know, that way -- because, as I said
earlier, the difference is that we are the city manager and
the elected official, so we don't have that staff. So the
City Manager has to be brought into the formula, from our
standpoint, on the budget process.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're at the same
point, Mayor Fine, as you are in terms of developing what
needs to be developed prior to really getting down and
prioritizing our budget. We've just put our first wave of
documents out to elected officials and department heads, and
we haven't gotten those back, so our process, like yours, is
just getting under way.
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MAYOR FINE: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know, we skipped
our face-to-face meeting last year, and so my memory is a
little foggy on what we did the prior year, but my point is
-- oh, I know we had the book, but whatever number of
meetings it takes to make us all understand -- I know we
don't like booking extra meetings just for the sake of
booking them, but if it takes a meeting to see the book,
have your staff step us through it, and another meeting to
ask the questions, and whatever it takes to get us to the
point of making a -- resolving the issues, I think, is
beneficial.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear.
MAYOR FINE: Well, I think there's
opportunities for questions to be answered outside of all 10
of us sitting down, too, and that's what I was trying to say
earlier. In my opinion, and the way Council's handled
things, you know, you're free to ask questions at any time.
I guess I'm saying the same thing. If y'all have -- if you
have some questions ahead of time, there's something that
just jumps out and glares at you, you can ask it before we
all sit down. I mean, I don't have a problem with that. Do
you have a problem with it, Don? Do you have a problem with
that? And I think that's kind of where I'm coming from. If
there's something that's really biting at you ahead of time,
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we may be able to get an answer for it before we all sit
down for a meeting. And if there's something that you need
help understanding, or I need help understanding, let's get
it before we get into the meeting, and maybe the -- the
meeting can move along faster, be more productive than
having to go down and argue about some little bitty point in
there, when maybe it could have been handled earlier easier.
It may be something you understand that I don't, and may be
something I understand that you don't when I'm reading it.
So -- and I think it would make the process work a lot
better. And while all of us have lives filled with
meetings, I think we'd like to minimize those, if at all
possible.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree.
MAYOR FINE: And it was hard enough
scheduling this where all 10 of us could be here. I can't
imagine trying to do it on a weekly or biweekly or even a
monthly basis.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not suggesting
that.
MAYOR FINE: I know, but I'm just saying,
even a monthly basis would be not -- not an easy task.
MR. SMITH: Gene Smith. Mr. Davis has
experience. He's a very experienced guy. He's been a lot
-- at a lot of places, and he might be able to bring his
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experience to -- to be used to our advantage here somehow or
other. So --
MS. DAMS: That's just another way of saying
that I'm old, I think, isn't it?
MR. SMITH: Well, there's nothing wrong with
being old. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: I gather that we've reached a
consensus as to how we're going to proceed forward from here
on trying to work on these issues?
MS. DAMS: Judge, may I ask a question?
JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, Mr. Davis.
MS. DAMS: Don Davis. Let me make a couple
of comments, I guess, and -- but mainly, I'm wanting some
clarification here. There may be an advantage with me being
new and totally and completely ignorant about the history of
most of these things, in that I can perhaps add some
objectivity. According to my notes and what little I know,
there -- there -- aside from the task force grant, there are
about eight services that are jointly participated in by the
two -- the two bodies, including the airport, which is
really kind of off the table now. That's, as I understand
it, been pretty well resolved. So, that leaves seven, and
three of those are managed or operated by the County, that
being the tax collection, animal control, and the jail. The
other four, then, are being managed and operated by the
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City. What I'm hearing, I think, is that we -- we take
those programs that we are administering, and kind of look
at them from a proprietary standpoint, and say that, "Here's
what it costs to do this," where we can come up with some
common units or whatever the costing configuration is. But
then offer that to the other agency as -- you know, we're
the proprietor; here's what the cost of the service is, and
here's what it's going to cost you to take advantage of it.
And if that is the procedure I'm kind of hearing we want to
follow, then we'll -- we'll certainly do that. And on
behalf of the staff, we'll continue, if it's the pleasure of
the two bodies, to prepare these things.
The other thing I -- I'd like to ask is that
I will make myself available to the Commissioners, as well
as the Council, to answer any of the questions concerning
the information that you're given. I think that -- that, as
Mayor Fine or somebody mentioned, that if we can do that
ahead of these joint meetings, we can certainly be more --
more time-productive, I think. I would like, however, for
the questions to come through my office, as opposed to going
directly to some of the department heads or others. I think
we need to be mindful that they've all got jobs they're
trying to do, and probably don't need interference from any
of us. So, we'll make -- I'll make myself available, as
much time as y'all need on an individual basis, to make sure
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everybody understands the numbers.
JUDGE TINLEY: That was the understanding I
had, Mr. Davis, that if -- if we had any questions ahead of
time, we can submit those to you. You, then, would run with
it from that point to try and find the answers for us, and
then, when we have our meeting, if there are additional
questions, why, we can raise those and hopefully get answers
there. But to the extent we have them ahead of time, it
would be helpful and efficient from a time standpoint --
MS. DAVIS: Absolutely.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- to do that up front.
MS. DAVIS: Be happy to. Thank you, Mayor.
MAYOR FINE: Well, and I think, for
clarification reasons, I mean, just like the tax collection,
animal control, and jail, we contract with you guys. That's
not -- to me, that's not joint projects. We don't have any
management in that. You guys are providing a service; we're
paying for that service, period. It's not something we can
walk into the jail and tell Rusty what's he's doing wrong,
because we don't have that ownership and participation
there, and I think it's the same thing for us with EMS and
fire. We're providing a service. That is not a joint
service. And -- and it doesn't mean you don't have the
right to know how we got our numbers or how we came about
those numbers, but I think the -- the point is, just like
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with the services you provide and the services we provide,
they're numbers based upon what we have to have to provide
that, you know, so we at least break even on what we're
providing, just like y'all would do with tax collection,
animal control. You know, these aren't -- we're not in the
profit-making business. You know, we -- we do our best to
keep it where we can provide the service on a break-even
basis. I don't think anyone's trying to gouge the taxpayers
for extra money to go into some pot somewhere. Not that
there aren't funds that have to be established for replacing
equipment and that type of thing, which are necessary in all
of these.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the desire is to get
Recycling and Animal Control into that contractor
relationship.
MAYOR FINE: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that every -- all of
MAYOR FINE: I think the library also needs
to get more along the lines of the airport. Like we said, I
think we can clean up a lot of animosities by getting
everything reduced to paper, and it would get the
personalities out of it and probably make it a lot more
efficient.
MR. WAMPLER: I think if we can do that, that
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would resolve your concerns about your role as a manager in
trying to understand where Antonio and the rest of the staff
or Council -- and I didn't mean to -- you know, your point's
well-taken that the County needs to have some -- some say in
the management, but the fact is -- is that we're managing
it. We're managing the library for the relationship. And,
no doubt, the County needs to have some input in there. So,
the extent that we need to change that and move it in the --
in the direction of the airport, I think, is -- is a good
idea. It's just -- I'm trying to -- want to clarify or get
you to clarify for me what your -- in the interim, what your
goal is with regard to information. Because, again, we
don't go directly to Antonio and say we want to talk to him
about his hopes and dreams for the library. That's kind of
synthesized through the budget process and through the
Council. We entreat everybody to kind of set priorities,
and that's how we do those things. So, if there's some way
that we could facilitate your input into the future of the
library, at least for the next budget year, we'd be happy to
do that until we can get it realigned along the lines of the
airport.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think we go
through the City Manager. I think the --
MR. WAMPLER: That's what we do. Because,
you know, we don't, as a general rule, contact individual
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department heads, because as Don said, you -- I mean, we've
kind of discharged their marching orders and their goals and
priorities for the year way in advance, and it's up to Don
and the City Manager to make sure that they're doing those
things.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Jon, I think the
library contract spells out that process. It says that the
-- a representative of the Commissioners Court and the
library director will submit a budget to both bodies before
July 1. It says they will meet and then submit a budget, so
that's what needs to be done very soon.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, the
library -- I mean, you sit on that board, not me. But I
would think that the -- I don't know -- that the way it
should work is that the City Manager, you, and Antonio
should sit down soon and figure out where we're going, and
so that Antonio is aware of limitations that -- you know,
the County's very much aware that we're going to have a very
tight budget this year, and that input needs to get into the
process to every department early, early on, because, you
know, we put in a tax freeze and we have some other things
that may be coming out in the Legislature that, you know,
we're going to have a very hard time funding anything that
isn't absolutely necessary this year. And that's the kind
of information that needs to get to Antonio. It's like --
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you know, and I don't -- by "absolutely necessary," I don't
mean things that are wish list. I'm talking about replacing
equipment. I mean, Road and Bridge is a good example. We
spend a great deal of money on equipment. I don't see us
being able to do anything out there hardly this year. I
think we're going to have -- they're going to have to fix
those dump trucks one more year rather than getting anything
new. And so that's the kind of input, I think, and that's
how it needs to work, I think, the format outline. Working
with the City Manager should work.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Mr. Mayor?
MAYOR FINE: I don't have anything, unless
Council have any -- okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any of
Court have anything you wish to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
just want to say that we have coffee
leave one in here. So, everybody do
trying to come together and be one h
your part.
you gentlemen on the
Before we leave, I
and doughnuts. Do not
their part. We're
ere. (Laughter.) So do
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Over a doughnut.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Over a doughnut.
JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate your -- appreciate
your being here and working with us on this.
MAYOR FINE: I'm glad we're able to meet.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, guys.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll stand adjourned.
(Joint meeting adjourned at 9:08 a.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR I
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 10th day of May, 2005.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY : __ __ 1~~Gv~G _______ _
Kathy ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
5-9-05 jcc