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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Budget Workshop
Monday, June 26, 2006
3:20 p.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4
3
v
O
~.~~/9
~0
I ABSENT: H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
25
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I N D E X
June 26, 2006
PAGE
BUDGET WORKSHOP
1. Preliminary budget discussion 3
2. Budget workshop format and timeline 3
3. Organization chart 14
Adjourned 21
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On Monday, June 26, 2006, at 3:20 p.m., a budget
the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. At this time I'll convene a
budget workshop originally scheduled for 2 p.m. this date, to
consist of preliminary budget discussion, budget workshop
format and timeline, and organizational chart. I've got, with
the exception of I think one department, unless it's come in
and I was unaware of it, all of the requests in. I have not
had the opportunity to squeeze all of those requests yet, but
that's next up on my radar screen. And the Tax Assessor might
be interested in this -- both of them.
MS. BOLIN: This is going to be fun the next few
months.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I have tentatively plugged
into my schedule some judicial juvenile training for the last
week in September, so I guess my message is, whatever number
of weeks we got left, I'd like to shorten that by one. Okay?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good news.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it is good news. The other
thing is, I'm really disappointed that -- that we can't get
together with the City a whole lot quicker.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So am I.
JUDGE TINLEY: Have we excluded Fridays? I don't
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the problems, I
think, that has come -- you know, and it's self-imposed by the
City, is that they're not going to have any of these budgets
for their departments ready until the third or fourth week of
the month, which -- I mean, to me, it was fine to meet with
them, but -- there was one meeting set up for the 12th at one
point, that Wednesday, but I know we don't have the airport
budget ready, and we're not going to have it on the 12th. I
mean, and that's -- I think I told Kathy, I said I have -- I
know the City canceled that meeting, but there was no point to
have it if they don't have these budgets -- these joint
budgets together and ready for us to look at, on the ones that
they manage. I mean, I don't see the point of meeting with
them just to meet with them. I'd like to have a budget number
on the table, and I am disappointed in the fact that
they're -- they seem really slow this year in getting these
numbers out. But, you know, that's something, unfortunately,
we don't have any control over directly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think a lot of that has to
do, Commissioner, with the new City Manager and the new
Director of Finance. And they got a new Director of Finance
who is a C.P.A., and I think she's making some significant
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changes. I think that a lot of that has to do with that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: August 3rd? Is that the date?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. And I belatedly discovered
that I've got a juvenile conference that entire day. But, you
know, if that's the only time we can do it, I'll make -- if
push comes to shove, or -- you know, I really -- you know, if
they don't have the information, I'm kind of like you. What
are we going to talk about? The weather? You know, if we
don't have any real numbers to take a look at, it's not going
to be of any great benefit for us. I think we recognize our
participation and our obligation with each of these functions,
but we're really needing some real numbers. The -- the ad
valorem tax numbers should be in by the tail end of July?
MS. RECTOR: Yes, July 26th or thereabouts.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We should plan on probably the
very end of July.
MS. RECTOR: Probably so.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any preliminary prognostications on
that, percentage-wise?
MS. RECTOR: I got some preliminary totals, but I
have not looked to see what the percentage of increase is in
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MS. RECTOR: I will get the copy to you.
JUDGE TINLEY: You know, I can look at the expense
side all day, but I'd sure like to keep one eye -- of course,
I don't have but one good one working now; it's kind of hard
to keep one eye peeled over there on the income side. I guess
I'm going to have to do it in two distinct pieces this year,
unless something changes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And on the -- from working
through -- I mean, I think Bill and I can come up with a
pretty good guess on the airport, and I'm sure Dave has a
pretty good guess on the library. The one that's the big
unknown in my mind is EMS.
JUDGE TINLEY: EMS, yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I don't know if the City's
going to plan any changes on fire or not.
JUDGE TINLEY: I saw an e-mail -- I guess it was
yesterday, that there were some discussions going on between
the City Manager and Commissioner Baldwin about -- he inquired
about EMS, and I think the response said that the Fire Chief
was looking at EMS and Kerrville fire contract. He threw that
one in, and that leads me to believe that there may be
something in the offing there. Maybe -- maybe I'm paranoid,
I but --
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think one thing we can
count on is that they're going to do some extraordinary salary
increases in probably the majority of their job
classifications. Their salary surveys have shown that they're
behind in their comparison group, and I think you'll see -- I
don't know -- I say extraordinary. It will be more than
cost-of-living. I think you'll see some, perhaps, significant
adjustments in patrolmen, for example, dispatch, things like
that. By the way, two weeks ago, we talked about the library
budget, and I gave you a bad number about current budget.
The -- the worksheet budget is only up 2 or 3 percent from
last year. Still a big number.
JUDGE TINLEY: Your -- your comments about City
salaries, were you referring only to the Police Department, or
are you talking about city-wide?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I asked Mr. Hofmann if
there was -- if he found disparities across the board or in
just a few classifications. He said not in all
classifications, but most. So, it may be Finance Department,
maybe an inspector job; I don't know where it is, but
certainly -- certainly patrolmen, he did say that at higher
levels, like the detective and stuff like that, there weren't
-- weren't. But, anyhow, you know, you could be looking at an
extra 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 percent on salaries over there. And,
of course, salaries are a big chunk of your budget. This
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would impact EMS, would impact the library. Not sure about
airport. If we meet -- when we meet, if we don't have all the
numbers we need on a particular budget, we might be able to
talk strategically, like what are we going to do about the
library? What about user-pay for EMS? Those kinds of issues.
JUDGE TINLEY: What are we looking at as far as
starting our actual in-detail workshops?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, as I think I said earlier,
I mean, I -- well, are you going to -- what's your direction?
Are we going to have workshops and then a budget? Or present
a kind of a budget compiled exactly -- kind of what we've done
in the past; give us a budget, and have -- then have the
workshops?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's my hope to give you at
least a preliminary before we have the workshops, but I'm
probably going to be inclined, as I have in years past, to
take the approach that, except as to the longevity and -- and
I educational raises, the things that are mandated by existing
policy, that any generalized pay increases and major capital
expenditure items -- I think those are something the entire
Court needs to have input and be able to make whatever
inquiries they want before any final decision is made. And I
really would like to have all of the -- I'd like to know where
that's going to relate us to vis-a-vis the income line too,
and that's not going to happen till after the 1st of -- of
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August. So, anything we do prior to that time, we're going to
be talking about expense only, without regard to --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My -- I think I've said this
before. My preference would be, on salaries, to put in the
cost-of-living adjustment first. And I -- then merit and some
of that, 'cause, I mean, I think that -- I really think that
you have to -- a cost-of-living adjustment is almost not
optional.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I just think -- I mean,
otherwise, you're asking people to work for less next year
than last year. I think we've always been pretty conservative
on that, but at least we've done something. I really would
like to see the numbers with that in. I agree with you on
capital items, and I agree with you on any kind of merit
increases and things of that nature. But --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, is that the Court's sense, that
they'd like to see it with a -- with a COLA on the front end?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would. And I think you
can get that, Judge, by -- through the U.S. Department of
Labor's web site; they keep a running index going, updated
month-by-month. So, you could get that for whenever you're
ready, end of May or end of June, whatever.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think you got it last year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did get it last year.
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I'll get it again this year if you want me to.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, yeah. If you -- probably wait
till after the 1st of July, so that we might get an additional
month's mobility into it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can get it through June.
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Okay.
	COMMISSIONER	NICHOLSON: Yeah, I'd like to see the
cost to b	egin with.	
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Okay.
	COMMISSIONER	NICHOLSON: And just -- you've heard me
say this	before. Our employees aren't paid too much. They
need and	deserve cost-of-living increases at least.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: I agree.
II	COMMISSIONER	NICHOLSON: I think the only problem
is, we've	got too many	employees. I'd rather have fewer
employees	and pay them	better than have too many employees.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: I agree with that philosophy.
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Okay. All right. If -- if that's
the sense	of the Court,	that's what I'll plug in up front,
then.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- from a timing
standpoint, seems like in previous years, we've had our
workshops prior to getting the revenue side as well.
II JUDGE TINLEY: We have started the workshops prior
to getting the revenue side, I think. I -- I think there's
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been a lot of listening, but not a lot of decision making
that's gone on, until we see how the revenue side was going to
affect us.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to get some of that
listening out of the way.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Some of our smaller
departments. Paula, if you know -- we talked about the
preliminary numbers by the end of July. What's the volume
of -- of protests that KCAD is entertaining right now? Is it
heavy, immediate, or --
MS. RECTOR: It's not heavy at all. I think most of
the protests are being cleared by staff review. There's not
going to be a whole lot going to A.R.D. That's my
understanding.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: I haven't gotten any numbers lately
from them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't the statements come out
late? I mean, it just seems --
MS. RECTOR: The appraisal notices? They were about
where they normally are.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just seems when we got it --
I got one late, and I was just --
MS. RECTOR: A lot of it overlaps. And I think
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you're an overlap, aren't you? And so am I, so I have not
received my appraisal notice from Comfort School District or
Kendall yet either, but I got mine from Kerr just last week.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause last week I got Kerr. I
MS. RECTOR: On the overlaps, they were coming out
later than the other appraisal notices, about two weeks later.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, that explains it.
So, then, Judge, the week of the -- is it 10th or 17th you
want to start doing some workshops?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The sooner, the better.
22 month --
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25 good.
JUDGE TINLEY: The third one is not good.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Third and fourth are not
JUDGE TINLEY: I hope I could have a lot of my
one-on-ones out of the way by then. Got one or two other
things that I got to be working on, but I'll sure do my
dangdest to have it -- for scheduling purposes, Wednesday is
always my best day. Tuesday afternoons and Wednesdays.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Likewise for me. So, good. Two
days. Wednesday's probably the best day of the week.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wednesdays are typically
good -- well, some of them, anyway. A couple of them in the
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the 12th would be a good
day for you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine, yes. 12th's
~ good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Budget workshop. What time do you
wish to start? 9:00? 10:00?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9:00.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do you want to schedule one
the following Wednesday also?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's got AACOG.
JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be out. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 18th -- the afternoon of the
18th?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18th would work better for
i me .
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see. 1:30?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay, that's two.
That'll get us rolling.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For what it's worth,
probably I'll be out of the county August 20 through 27.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: We got us a couple to work on now.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other item to put on, or
kind of -- item's kind of a collaborative effort, but ask
Kathy to rework the organization chart a little bit. Dave put
it together a couple weeks ago, and I put it on here again
'cause it seemed like related to budget is organization of
departments. And I think at some point in the next couple
weeks, we need to decide if we're going to try to do any
reorganization, or say no, it's a nice thing to talk about,
but no, we're not going to do anything. I mean, it's -- the
', latter is certainly the easier course, not necessarily the
'~ better. Problem is, the way I look at it, I have a real hard
time seeing how you restructure a lot of this, put different
departments together, that is going to be more cost-effective,
because they're so -- such different -- I mean, for example,
Environmental Health.
I see Miguel is out there; I'll use Environmental
Health. It's a small department. It's a specialized
department. Someone needs to be kind of coordinating that
department, so even if you had -- say we were, you know, to
move Environmental Health and Solid Waste under -- over with
subdivisions, something like that, in Road and Bridge. Then
you still need to have someone in charge who's a knowledgeable
"go-to" person in Solid Waste. I don't see that you're
gaining a spot there, because there's really -- I mean, 'cause
Miguel is not an office manager, as far as someone, you know,
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who sits in the office. He's out there doing the inspections
and working, and probably not 100 percent, but I would say a
small percentage of his time is actually done on the
management side. Most of it's doing the actual work. I don't
know if that's true or not, but that's my perception. So, I
just don't see how you gain a whole lot by adding more
management. And -- but I'm certainly willing to, you know,
listen and try to figure out if there's some organization
changes that can be made. Just whenever I look at it, it
looks pretty hard to do. I think the area that there is more
area to really look at is the whole list of things that --
kind of under the administration up under Commissioners Court.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we're going to have
', our hands full, seriously, by bringing human resources
functions u here, in terms of reorganization. That's going
p
to be a --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, yeah, bringing that up
here, and some -- probably, you know, changes possibly in
maintenance and things going around like that, I mean, I just
see a lot of --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, coupled with the human
resources aspect of it is -- is the Court Coordinator's
position. Dave talked about that as well. And if and how
that's restructured, if and how we -- or whether we create a
working role adjacent -- in conjunction with that, that whole
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thing adds up to a pretty good pot.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the Judge --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we'll probably make
good progress on Wednesday, trying to define what the
possibilities are there, getting some idea of the scope of it.
And the other thing -- and Tommy's going to be there. Tommy's
recommending that we consider employing his replacement in
advance so that he can -- whoever he or she is can be trained
up and ready to assume those duties, 'cause he's pretty much
served notice that he's not going to be here forever.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He did that one other time,.
too.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. A couple other
thoughts on it is, perhaps we should be moving -- or trying to
assess the opportunities for outsourcing payroll.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Perhaps we shouldn't delay
much longer to -- let's not do it, but assess it and find out
who can do it and how much it would cost, and is that a better
alternative than doing it in-house?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, and I've got some
contacts and suggestions that Mr. Beltrone gave me which I've
delayed following up on, but now is the time.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll talk about that on
25 ~ Wednesday also.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the other idea is that
when you -- when you have turnover in a management or
supervisory slot, that's a good time to think about making
changes. So, should we have any retirements or resignations
coming up, maybe we can think about how we could do things --~
how we could organize around that to do things differently.
This -- the concept of teams, as opposed to hierarchal
organizations with supervisors is -- is a really interesting
one, something I've seen going on out at Animal Control.
They've been short-handed by two people, and then one. It was
five to three, and then back up to four, and now they're still
at four. And, of course, Janie's the boss out there, but
they're operating more like a team than a hierarchal
organization, and I think it gets better results. It's
I!, certainly -- I've seen in industry where teams get a whole lot
better results than "I'm the boss and you're the boss" kind of
organizations.
JUDGE TINLEY: Toyota, among others -- Dell used it.
Toyota uses it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We started a factory in
Bryan, Texas a few years ago with no supervisors. Everybody
was equal, and their purchasing and manufacturing, their
shipping, they did all the things as a team, but it was
probably the most productive organization we had in the whole
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~ company.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that latter -- that
latter role of purchasing that you mentioned is of equal
importance --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- in our scheme of things.
Not only for what we know that we're going try to bring up
here, but what we know is taking place in the Maintenance
Department as well, 'cause a good bit of purchasing happens
through them. It's an important item.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the issues I've always
had with purchasing is -- I don't know if I want to say
this -- is who that person reports to. As I understand it,
it's not this Court. It's the same situation as with the
Auditor, and they go to the District Judges. And I think that
there's -- not that I think the -- I have any problem with
the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're wrong. If
you take -- if you take a look at the Ector County model,
which is probably one of the premier purchasing models in the•
state of Texas, that department reports to Commissioners
Court.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That needs to be clarified. It
changes my view a lot, because if it reports to Commissioners
Court, I have a lot more -- we have more control over costs.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We got something from the
County Attorney addressing that issue, and I think it
concluded we can appoint auditors, which is different than
district -- I mean appoint purchasing agents.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Surely. Well, we can, yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That confused me, though.
It's something that they can't buy anything, or buy the
County, but you can appoint them if you want to. So --
', COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dave, that's the same
belief -- that's the same case in Bexar County. Purchasing
reports to Commissioners Court.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, for one of our
workshops, maybe an afternoon session, see if you can get down
the lady from Ector County, 'cause she is very knowledgeable
and very good.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She really is. We'll see if
we can get her, yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: You've taken on that responsibility,
then?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, why not?
JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds like volunteering to me.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are there any -- any
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obvious functions that would be candidates for joint ventures
with the City or any other political entity?
JUDGE TINLEY: There -- they did a survey on health
care administration, health benefits administration. They're
looking at that. I don't know where they are on that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the area of floodplain
would be one that, to me, would -- should -- I think it's the
same rules. I'm not positive about that, but that's one
that's a possibility. Another one is parks, 'cause they do
have a Parks Department, and we really don't. That may be
one, but the issue I see on the parks one is that they spend a
lot more on their parks than we spend on our parks.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who are you talking about?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Parks.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The City.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, the City. Well, they
have a total department, 'cause they have recreation involved,
Parks and Recreation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But just from -- it might be
interesting to see what they -- just the basic maintenance
part of it, you know. I mean, I don't -- I don't know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, they got swimming
pools and that kind of stuff.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Golf courses.
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parks are pretty much just public spaces. But right now,
we've pushed that under Maintenance, and it doesn't fit very
well with Maintenance. I mean, mowing those parks, I don't
think, fits.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it fits better under
Road and Bridge, if you talk about equipment and manpower-type
fit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Possible. But I think they're
-- the issue of using that personnel and equipment for
non-Road and Bridge purposes, there's some --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ask the County Attorney.
Where'd he go?
JUDGE TINLEY: If you can find him, you can ask him.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: He's getting ready to do juvie
hearings that we had scheduled at 3:00.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's kind of -- I just
want to get this on the table today, discuss it a little bit.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that all we got for right now on
the budget workshop? Good enough. We'll stand adjourned.
(Budget workshop adjourned at 3:41 p.m.)
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STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my
capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court
of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place
heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 14th day of
July, 2006.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y : ___ __ ~~-
Kathy nik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
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