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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Budget Workshop
Wednesday, July 12, 2006
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
July 12, 2006
--- Workshop to consider and review FY 2006-07
budget, budget priorities and policies, and
the order of departmental budget reviews for
FY 2006-2007 budget; review of department
budgets; consideration of matters having
budgetary impact and other matters relating
to FY 2006-07 budget
Adjourned
PAGE
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the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order this
Commissioners Court budget workshop posted for this date and
time, Wednesday, July 12, 2006, at 9 a.m. It's that time now.
The agenda item, for the record, is workshop to consider and
review Fiscal Year 2006-07 budget, budget priorities and
', policies, and the order of departmental budget review for
~,
~ FY '06-'07 budget, review of department budgets, consideration
of matters having budgetary impact and other matters relating
to FY '06-'07 budget. I think we can talk about nearly
anything we want to, as long as it has money involved in it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask, did you
leave anything out, Judge?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I wanted to be able to talk
about nearly -- go any direction we wanted to. Ms. Rector
very recently provided me with some very preliminary figures
from the Appraisal District on -- on '06 tax values. She's
making copies of that now. She also pulled her last year's
report. Now, that deals with Kerr County only; it does not
include, to my understanding, Road and Bridge. The bottom
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line of what she's going to bring us is going to say that
the -- the values subject to tax -- or increased tax over
actual, actually is increased by approximately $185 million.
That's Kerr County only. That does not include Road and
Bridge. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I had a mental lapse
during -- while you were speaking. Will you say what you just
said again?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me make sure -- do we have
the -- this is '06? Well, not -- the '05.
MS. RECTOR: The '05 is stapled underneath it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay.
MS. RECTOR: The third page, I think.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Should be the 2005. It will say
Adjusted History, roll totals.
JUDGE TINLEY: Page 2 and Page 4 give you the
numbers that you're looking for, I believe. The last page is
the freeze-adjusted taxable value, 2 billion, 140,015 million,
and Page 2 gives you this year's, 2 billion, 325,230.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. You're losing me,
Judge. Where do I see those numbers?
JUDGE TINLEY: They're at the -- the last year's
numbers are at the bottom of Page 4, the last page.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Page 4.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Where it shows 2 billion, 140
I million.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: That was the amount subject to tax
with the adjustment for the freeze last year.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 2 billion-plus subject to
I tax.
JUDGE TINLEY: Uh-huh. Now you go to Page 2, and
that number, at least preliminarily for this year, is 2
billion, 325 and change. The difference between those two is
just short of $185 million. So, that's the increase in value
that we're looking at.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, can --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In our current tax rate,
how much money is that 185 million?
JUDGE TINLEY: .3925? Isn't that what it is?
.3975?
MR. TOMLINSON: Approximately, yes. For both Road
and Bridge and --
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. TOMLINSON: -- and M & O.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many dollars?
JUDGE TINLEY: I've got a calculator.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's that new one you got
there?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that doesn't have as many
spaces as this one, I don't think.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave off the last three.
MR. TOMLINSON: 100 million would be 400,000.
MS. RECTOR: 400,000.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we might have $650,000,
~i
$700,000 revenue?
I
MS. RECTOR: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Increased revenue?
MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: I get 726,000. Does that sound about
right?
MS. RECTOR: Yeah.
MR. TOMLINSON: We ran --
MS. RECTOR: 650. We ran them down.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I didn't hear your figure.
MR. TOMLINSON: She said 650.
MS. RECTOR: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, that's one number. But,
of course, that's a preliminary number, and we've still got a
ways to go. The Appraisal District will probably have their
certified rolls in, what, about 15 --
MS. RECTOR: We hope by the end of the month.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go over effective --
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just a quick summary of "effective rate" calculations?
MS. RECTOR: Go over calculations?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, not the --
MS. RECTOR: "Effective rate" is a rate -- is a
benchmark that raises the same amount of revenues you had last
year. That's what an effective rate is.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, with no rate change, we
have 650 or more thousand dollars to spend?
MS. RECTOR: Maybe.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe. That's close.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess let me ask a follow-up
question on that. Well, is it a situation -- I mean, if
the -- you can't raise -- or we try not -- or I shouldn't --
there's a rollback.
MS. RECTOR: There's a rollback.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The rollback rate is what? What
percent, or what amount? If you increase it more than a
certain percent over the effective rate --
MS. RECTOR: 8 percent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 8 percent over the effective
rate. If you're in a situation where you -- say G.M. decided
to build some facility here, and we all of a sudden got an
additional billion dollars in value. What does that do to the
effective rate? I mean, is it -- I mean, the tax -- to stay
below the effective rate, the County would lower taxes?
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MS. RECTOR: Yes. The more value, the lower your
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right. So, I mean,
'cause -- so, the more growth we get --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I see what you're saying.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the more growth we get, the
-- and it gets to a point that you have to start lowering
taxes to keep from being subject to a rollback.
MS. RECTOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Have you calculated the
effective rate based on this new --
MS. RECTOR: No.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Rector? The question was, have
you calculated a preliminary effective rate?
MS. RECTOR: I have not.
JUDGE TINLEY: Based on the data.
MS. RECTOR: No, because I do not have all the
information from the Appraisal District. I have to have all
the property values. There's just a lot of other information,
new added values, lots of other things that go into the
calculation, and that all comes with the certified rolls.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
', JUDGE TINLEY: The other -- the other thing, as you
25 ~ saw, I -- in order to try and see where we were cost-wise
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on -- on COLA's, I asked for a new position schedule to
include the mandatory longevity and educational increases that
would be due under existing policies of court, and then COLA's
calculated at various amounts on those position schedules, and
I've not yet received that requested information from the
Treasurer. However, the Auditor, at my request, did a rough
calculation which does not include any of those longevities or
any of that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does not include?
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25
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two million a quarter,
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not base salary; it's
JUDGE TINLEY: Does not include the longevity or --
or educational increases. What you have before you is the --
what he projects as the salary cost for 9/30/06, and then
various COLA's on that only, but not including anything to
deal with the longevity or -- or educational increases.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, the first two
numbers on that schedule lose me. 6/30/06, we go from
6 million, to 9/30/06, 8 million.
MR. TOMLINSON: That's right.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the total payroll cost to be
paid for this fiscal year through September 30.
I' COMMISSIONER LETZ: 8 million?
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year-to-date costs, 6 million.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And projected total costs
are 8 million.
MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I believe either the
Judge or Commissioner Williams are going to look up the -- the
inflation rate.
JUDGE TINLEY: COLA.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The C.P.I. We've got it --
we've got it to give you. We got it through the month of May:
June will not be posted until -- I've got it in there; I'll go
get it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just roughly, I mean, where is
I it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're looking at pretty
close to 4 percent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 4 percent.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: June won't be posted until
about another week.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, does that include
~ gasoline?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's all goods and services.
And there are two different indexes; one's for all cities --
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MR. TOMLINSON: On the last -- last column, I used
4.1, and that's the number that I got off the web from -- from
Social Security Administration.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 4.1?
JUDGE TINLEY: I -- Ms. Mitchell pulled up that
historical run for years, and I did a calculation through May,
beginning last October, and rounded, it came to 4.1, which is
the same thing he got off of Social Security. That was the
southern urban.
', COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it's really important to
~I try to -- I mean, as almost a budget priority, number one is
to do a COLA of that amount, because overall, County employees
are not highly paid, and the gas -- and inflation in general,
but gas especially this year hits them hard percentage-wise,
and I think that it's real important that we at least keep our
employees where they were previously.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it -- I think it
would be wise -- and I know you've tried, Judge -- that we get
those automatic numbers, the longevities and those kinds of
things, built in as soon as possible so we can -- because I
agree with --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be step one, in my
opinion, seeing that the COLA's put in for employees. Is the
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Treasurer's office the only place that that information is,
where the automatics are built in?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding. And that's
who I requested -- you gentlemen got a copy of my memorandum,
and I asked for it --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where -- is the Treasurer
I here?
JUDGE TINLEY: -- Monday. This past Monday,
~ actually.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the Treasurer here? I
mean, I don't see her in the room.
JUDGE TINLEY: No, she's not. I -- I'm not sure.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The index is -- Kathy's
pulling them off; she'll get copies for everybody. They'll be
in in a minute.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think that's critical
information to hear.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to be added on.
~ Mandatory.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to be added. We don't
have any discretion about it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand.
JUDGE TINLEY: Unless we repeal the policy, which I
think would be pretty draconian.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's start off on payroll
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And what we see, again --
and I could calculate it. I haven't, but total payroll costs
are about 50 percent of our budget; they're about 10 million
of our -- including insurance, taxes, everything, maybe more.
And -- and, again, it's not 'cause we pay too much, 'cause we
don't pay too much. We probably don't pay a competitive rate.
So, the obvious answer is, do we have too many people?
MR. TOMLINSON: You had -- this -- on my worksheet,
the total COLA costs line could be somewhat overstated,
because there -- there are some salaries that I included that
aren't subject to retirement. So, that overstatement could
offset any, you know, longevities. So, I -- I feel
comfortable that these -- these numbers are overstated
somewhat.
JUDGE TINLEY: We still -- as Commissioner Baldwin
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they're also overstated
because the Juvenile Detention Facility was staffed at a lot
higher level for half this year, and those numbers -- so
that -- that portion of it's built in. But it's good. I
mean, I think we'd like to err on that side at this point in
the process.
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-- this year is not going to be a heavy year for longevity
increases, because '03 and '06 were, and last year we had a
heavy year, and this coming year I think is going to be less.
Obviously, for new employees we brought on last year, the
one-year is going to hit us, but I think overall, it's going
to be less this year than it was last year, but we still need
to know that number.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we don't know the
education part of it, too; i.e., the Sheriff's Department and
their education bumps and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of -- I think they're
pretty much maxed out. I mean, they've got -- I mean, not
maxed out, but a lot of their employees, I think, have got the
educational things that -- those have already been done.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know about that.
See, I'm not sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you could --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Rusty -- I mean, turnover --
as we lower turnover, and we have county-wide, we have less of
an impact on that one-year --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Shhh, there he is now.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We still have enough .
turnover, I think, in the jail that not a lot of people get to
that Step 2. But it's a whole -- you're right, it's probably
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The way I look at it is, the
police officers themselves, you have a lot of them on the
bottom rung, and there is a long ways for them to go to that
master's thing, so you never know where -- where they are or
how much they've gotten through the year, and that's -- those
are the kind of numbers I think that we need to start off
I with.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think we're going to see more of
them taking advantage to climb that ladder from basic to
intermediate, and then the two-step increase to master with
this Distance Learning Center that we've put on out here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not there yet.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's going to be more accessible to
them and easier for them to be able to do that, and I think --
I think that's going to help the professionalism overall, but.
it's also going to increase our costs.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's true.
JUDGE TINLEY: As -- as you can see from the
information that Ms. Mitchell was kind enough to make you
gentlemen copies of, with capital outlay being left to the
Court's discretion, and not having personnel items, what's in
between is not highly significant. I have gone through there,
', and in various departments I've made some adjustments, some
j up, some down. Probably more down than up, but I've made some
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upward adjustments. There's some areas that I still have
questions. Last week, I requested each of the individuals
whose departments are affected to obtain a copy so that when
we have our one-on-ones, that they can know what I've done to
this point, but basically what I'm -- what I've been working
with is the middle portion of the budget; the personnel being
at the top, capital outlay at the bottom, and the portion in
the middle is -- is not highly exciting. That's the paper
clips, the pencils, the conferences, the equipment and things
of that nature.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nuts and bolts.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, just the basics that go
with everyday operation of any department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's look at one right quick
to make sure that --
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that I understand clearly
what you have done and what we are seeing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what we have here. I
just turned to County Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I'm seeing in pencil is
requested. Now, is that what you requested?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This may not be a good
example here, but -- and then what --
JUDGE TINLEY: Whoever -- whoever's budget that is,
that's what they requested in that column.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you have changed
that number in some areas.
JUDGE TINLEY: In the next column.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the next column.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it -- throughout this
budget book, I can clearly see what was requested, and then
your recommendation. You didn't -- you didn't wipe out their
request number?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, no.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay, so we're going
to be able to see everything.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I think if you go
to -- Tab 6 is a good -- this is the first one I saw, is Court
Collections.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: This shows requested amount, and
then it shows some penciled-in marks.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That are adjustments, in some
cases made by you. And in some cases, there's no adjustment
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there; you just rewrote the number, correct?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if there's nothing in that
column, you pretty much just carry it on through?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Either that, or it's a
personnel item.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Or it's a capital outlay item that
I'm not doing anything with.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On that one, as an example,
it appears to me that -- on the bottom, the operating
equipment and capital outlay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've combined those, did
~ you not?
JUDGE TINLEY: Are you looking at Collections?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm looking at --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 6?
JUDGE TINLEY: Where are you?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry, I'm on 7.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's fine. Let's look at 7.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a bigger one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you see what I'm seeing
there at the bottom?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you combine those? Is
that what you did there, the last two lines?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. There was -- that may relate
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess my question is,
are you proposing that we delete one or the other of those
lines?
JUDGE TINLEY: No. What I'm saying is, there was
some information that I had, and I can't lay my finger on it
now, to indicate that those were two capital-type numbers, new
machines.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just linked them
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I understand now.
JUDGE TINLEY: And sometimes -- if you'll refer back
to the I.T. budget, when you get down to some of those new
computers, new printers and so forth, the I.T. Manager gave us
a report suggesting that upgrades are needed for various
departments. I think the District Clerk has some in her
budget that the I.T. Manager has recommended. Another one, I
think Mr. Emerson, in his budget, has a new printer. That
came in belatedly a couple of days ago, as I recall. But a
lot of these relate back to the I.T. Manager's recommendations
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for upgrading various equipment in various departments.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's pretty comprehensive.
But, again, depending on what the Court does on the issue of
human resources, that will have to be added to it if it's
decided, 'cause he wouldn't have known about it.
game for all of us.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I saw Barbara. Thanks for
coming up.
MS. NEMEC: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are we on the -- I'm
sorry, I'm just keeping them all -- the longevity and
educational?
MS. NEMEC: I've got it right here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MS. NEMEC: I can give this to you all. What I have
done, I need to -- I was finishing this up this morning. And
the Juvenile Detention Facility just sent me over their
position schedule, and I want to compare it to what I have and
make sure that it's correct. And then, like, on here, I want
to take this -- and I haven't had a chance to do that, is take
this, compare it to the last payroll and make sure that
everything is correct. But I can go ahead and give this to
you.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Preliminary.
MS. NEMEC: What I've done -- I know the Judge had
asked for a 3 percent, 3 and a half percent, and 4 percent,
but that's very time-consuming to do, so what I did was, I did
a step and grade schedule on a 3 and a half percent. I took
this step and grade schedule and changed all these to 3 and a
half percent, plus their longevity, and so I can hand this to
you. I'm working on payroll right now, and then, if y'all
want me to work up some other figures after tomorrow,
2 o'clock is my banking deadline for payroll; then I can do
that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: For informational purposes -- and
we're going to take a look at it here momentarily, if you'll
be with us for a little bit -- we're looking at what that COLA
looks like it's going to zero in on, and the figure I've heard
to this point is 4.1.
MS. NEMEC: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, we may -- we may light on that or
some other figure here shortly, to give you some more guidance
about what you need here.
MS. NEMEC: And also, I got with the Sheriff this
morning -- or with Nancy, and I know that they're wanting to
get back on the same schedule. So, like I said, it's very
time-consuming, 'cause this all has to be figured out manually
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and then put into Excel, and so I am scheduled to go and see
him tomorrow and try to get his people as close to this
schedule as possible. So, he's not in here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's not in here?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Still not in here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Moving his schedule -- or
changing his schedule from the present way he does it to like
everybody else does it, does that require a court order, or do
you just automatically do it?
MS. NEMEC: Well, y'all would have to approve the
I schedule.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. NEMEC: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're going to do it
anyway, and --
MS. NEMEC: Because that's -- yeah, he wants to
propose that for your consideration.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. NEMEC: And I think in past meetings, the Court
has kind of leaned towards going back to keeping them on the
same schedule, so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no problem with it.
I'm just looking, trying to figure out all the mechanics of
what we're doing.
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MS. NEMEC: Yeah. No, y'all would definitely have
to approve that. So, we're going to get together.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: May be something you want to
consider in the next court meeting, so that she'll have a
definite --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- way to go before the budget
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I sense there's a consensus
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- yeah, I think it
makes sense. But, John, is there a way -- I guess this is
being done in Excel right now?
MS. NEMEC: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a way -- does the new
system have the capability to -- to build -- do the same thing
that we're doing in Excel? Or does this need to be done in
Excel? Seems like -- I mean, to me, this is a lot -- a very
time-consuming schedule that we have created for this county.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To be honest, when John and I
~ did it, he educated me on how to do it in Excel. You enter
one figure and it changes it all the way across. It's a very,
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simple schedule to do in Excel. It just got out of whack over
I MS. NEMEC: And that is --
I
MR. TROLINGER: That is actually the best
calculator, is Excel.
MS. NEMEC: And that is what I`m doing it with. I
just change this first figure and it changes it all, but it's
the position schedule. You have to take this, transfer it to
the position schedule, check to see who's up for longevity and
then calculate how many months at -- like, for instance, if
someone's longevity kicks in in January, then I have to
calculate on my calculator from October through the end of
December how many pay periods that is at a 15-1, and then
their longevity from January to September at a 15-2. So,
that's the --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can that portion be automated,
John? I mean, that's -- I mean, it just seems that we've --
there's got to be a way to do this, I mean, in a simpler
format.
MR. TROLINGER: I believe there is a way to write a•
script, if you will, a little English style program in the
financial software, but it would require assistance from the
I vendor.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not smart enough; is that
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MR. TROLINGER: It's not a simple thing to do. It's
not something Barbara can probably sit down and do at a -- you
know, in a couple hours. It's a big deal.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be worthwhile
doing it, because I think it's a -- I mean, we've adopted a
longevity policy and educational policy and all that, and I
think to have to manually pull out a calculator and redo it
for every -- I mean, it's probably -- I don't know what
percent of the employees, but every employee every third year,
so it's a -- it's an ongoing thing. If we could figure out a
way to automate that, it would be a big plus.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to do this.
Putting first things first, I suggest we light on a COLA, just
so that we can, you know, run payroll costs now. And we can
-- if need be, we can change that COLA later, but I'd -- we
ought to do that now. Where do we get this 4.1 percent?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're getting it off the
index there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second page.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got two different
indexes. The long sheet is the C.P.I., all urban consumers.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all goods and
services.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you look at it -- if you
look at it from the end of the second half of 2005 through May
of 2006, you've got about a 5 -- you've got about a 5.1 -- you
got a 5.1 spread. If my -- if you look at the second one, and
you take the second table from one -- this is southern urban,
all items, instead of all urban consumers, U.S., is for is
southern region of the United States, which includes Texas.
You take a look at the second-half average, that's 190.5.
Based on the '82 index of '84 equals 100, and through May,
we're at 195.5, so that's showing about a point difference of~
where it's actually showing 5 percentage points. The
second -- on the second page is a conversion table, and it
shows '05 total through the second half averaging at 4 points.
And '06, it hasn't shown the average, 'cause we haven't got to
the six months marker yet, which you can do it in your head,
and it's right at 4, 4.1 right now on that table.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's go with 4.1.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 4.1, about where it is right
now, and the month of June will be posted by U.S. Department
of Labor, I understand, in about a week or 10 days. And so,
while we're in our discussions, we'll see what June brings as
~ well, how that affects the annualization.
JUDGE TINLEY: I got a strange feeling it's going to
kick it up even more, with fuel costs starting to affect a lot
25 ~ of other goods and services that we're all feeling.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another tenth of a point or
two, perhaps.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you want to shave it up
I to 4.2?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a good basis
to start right now, 'cause I got a feeling it's going to get
there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's go with 4.2. Tommy,
I've got a -- are you still here, Tommy? Yeah. I've got a
question on -- I like this rule of thumb COLA. Is that
one-tenth of one percent equals $8,200?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, if I multiply 4.2 times
~ 8, 200 --
MR. TOMLINSON: You can add 8,200 to the 381,000.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Three -- about 390.
MS. NEMEC: So, do you -- y'all want me to go ahead
and do another step and grade schedule with a 4.2, and then
transfer it to the position schedule?
JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's what you're hearing.
MS. NEMEC: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a -- at least a ballpark
figure on the longevity and educational increases for the
coming year over last year? I believe you said you don't have
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the Sheriff plugged in, though, do you?
MS. NEMEC: No, I don't. And the reason is because
when I did this schedule last night, what I did was I updated
our previous schedule to 3.2 percent, and then I just plugged
in -- you know, I went and checked who gets longevity this
year, and by department, it's totaled out, the total amount
for each department, what their payroll will be based on that.
So, I don't have it separated.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we're -- I mean, we
really need to get a total number, anyway.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we need to know that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, as soon as we can get that
and calculate a 4.2 --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just start thinking about
it. If -- if COLA's around 400,000, step rates wouldn't be in
that same vicinity. Would they be 50,000? We don't know?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I really don't know.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't even try to guess.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That got us in trouble one
other time.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it -- I mean, it
quickly shows that, once again, we're in a tight year, and
we're talking about an increase of 700 -- was it $780,000?
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$720,000, looks like, roughly, increase, and 400,000 of
', that -- or more than 400,000 of it is going immediately to
keeping us where we are currently.
MS. NEMEC: There aren't too many that gets
longevity this year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause it's the third --
MS. NEMEC: Right. Last year was the -- the year
where it really hit us.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't have very many at
all getting educational this year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the educational front,
you got any movement?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a couple, but not --
it's probably less than five total employees. It's not that
much.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It won't be -- that's not a huge
number.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Most of that got taken care of
in the last few years.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker, you had a comment?
Question? Concern?
MS. UECKER: I just want to remind the Court that
last year, y'all said you were going to look at this year,
moving the office staff that are at 12's to 13's, and the ones
that are at 13's to 14's, and you were going to ask the
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Treasurer to get that figure. You know, 'cause you talked
about it last year and decided to postpone it till this year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that whole -- we
need to -- that, along with the Sheriff's whole issue of his
schedules being -- 'cause he is different than everybody else,
trying to get him back in line with the rest of the county.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I think that issue and
those step and grades will also address some of -- here's
where it makes it a little bit more feasible to be able to do
I that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Say that again, Linda.
We're talking about 12's to 13's and 13's to 14's?
MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm, in the office staff.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, really, when we look at
that, I mean, that -- that's where we identify the problems,
primarily in those two areas. But every time we bump, it
really has a ripple effect throughout the whole system, so
it's -- you can't do them all at once. But that needs to be .
looked at, and we probably -- you know, to keep from having to
run multiple runs, we probably ought to attack that and the
Sheriff and any other position changes that we think we need
to to really try to make and build that into the next run that
Barbara does, so we have it all at once. So, that's -- I
mean, if we're committed to doing that, get that off the table
to start with, and then look if we have any additional funds.
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If there's anything else there, which it quickly appears that
we're not going to have any additional funds.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you want to go ahead
and -- and get the next run with that clerical staff bump from
12 to 13's and 13 to 14?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need to -- I think
we get ourselves into trouble when we arbitrarily start moving
positions round.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, they're all
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of a sudden, you know -- and
I don't know the best way -- I don't know how we -- we almost
need to look at the whole step and grade system at once, and
kind of what -- who's where, and --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we do that? Why
don't we look and see what's in that lower classification now,
entirely throughout the system, see where that takes us.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And also, I mean, I think you
have to look at the whole system as a whole, 'cause it is
related. You can't have a -- I won't say you can't have; you
can do anything you want. But we -- is it fair to have, you
know, someone who's got a lot of responsibility and, you know,
bonded and things of that nature, be paid just slightly more
than someone who's a new hire? I mean, that's not the type of
situation we -- so I think you have to kind of --
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As we're looking at the
system as a whole, though, and I agree that we should, one of
the questions in that looking at the whole thing is, what
would it be like to delete 12?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Line 12. So, I think we
ought to go ahead and run those numbers on a separate sheet,
to have them available.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do two? Do one a "what-if" and
-- a reality and a what-if?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Because we're going to
talk about deleting the 12's again anyway.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I really think that we probably
ought to -- I mean, we spent -- I don't know what we did.
When did we do the Nash study? Six years ago?
MS. NEMEC: Gosh, it was a while.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that we probably ought
to hand this off to Precinct 4 next year to -- to look at the
whole -- you know, compensation, salaries, step and grade as
their project for next year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not a bad idea.
JUDGE TINLEY: Got two for the price of one, right?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Buenos dias.
25 I COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Welcome.
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MS. OEHLER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you did that last time.
MR. ODOM: My words exactly.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: When did you get back from
I Mexico?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may want to go back to
Mexico. But I think it's -- but it's -- and it may be
unrealistic to look at the whole thing this year. Maybe we
can't, but it's -- the reason we did the Nash study, as I
recall, is because we did some tweaking, and all of a sudden
got all out of alignment, and we're probably getting close to
being there again. And I don't know that you have to go .over
the whole thing, but I think it does need to be looked at.
And next year is probably a better time to really to look at
that whole thing, and maybe make some minor adjustments this
year, 'cause it's a timely thing. You have to look at every
job description and every --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't you think that's
probably a function that would be put into the new department
to do that, come back with recommendations?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Possibly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of where I
thought you were going. You're off the hook, Precinct 4.
MS. NEMEC: So, you just want me to run the figures
as they are now, the positions?
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On what?
MS. NEMEC: The position schedule. Do you want me
to change those 12's to 13's and --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we want to know
what-all's in 12. What are we affecting here? What are we
moving forward, and what are we --
MS. UECKER: 12's are entry level for all the office
I staff.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are they?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Entry level office staff at 12.
MS. UECKER: And janitorial.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are Road and Bridge entry
level 12's also?
MR. ODOM: Sir?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Isn't Road and Bridge entry
I level 12?
MR. ODOM: No, sir, 14's.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
MR. ODOM: We took care of that several years ago.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think Commissioner
Baldwin's suggestion of having two separate snippets, as it
were, one what it's going to take to move 12's to 13's, and
another one 13's to 14's, and just isolate those two and look
at the individual costs. Go ahead and run your position
schedule as it is now with those two addendas to it.
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MS. NEMEC: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I assume that's what you were talking
about?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I was
~ saying.
MS. NEMEC: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There -- the current step and
grade table, what's the break between each one? The --
MS. NEMEC: Two and a half percent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two and a half percent.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Steps. Now, grades is five.
MS. NEMEC: Yeah, this way, across.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- how did the Court
end on five and two and a half? Where did that come from?
MS. UECKER: Nash study.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's just something -- is that
where -- it didn't exist prior to Nash?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It actually started with the
Ray and Associates study way back.
MS. NEMEC: Way back.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have all that documentation,
and then the Nash kept it. The Nash firmed up some positions
on it on the grades, but it started with the Ray and
Associates study back in the early '80's.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: '88 or '89.
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When that was. I have that
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- I mean, I think
that it's a -- a next-year project. That might be -- the
whole thing is -- is that -- is that a good system? I don't
know if it is or isn't, but it probably should be looked at.
I mean, it's been around going on 20 years in this county, the
same format, and is that the way we ought to be doing it? I
don't see why we need to --
MS. UECKER: Basically, the same that the federal
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or are we in line properly? You
know. So, anyway, that's more --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What you're talking about is
a possibility of funding another study?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe doing it in-house.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think if you'll look at the
step and grade schedule after Barbara and I get together, and
the auditor -- the outside Auditor y'all have hired already
looked at it, recommended it that way. It's not the one y'all
saw before. I think if, at the next Commissioners Court
meeting, we put that on the agenda to look at all that and
see, I think you'll see a lot of flexibility in it. It still
25 ~ keeps the same -- what it does is, your steps across are two
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and a half percent, but your grades down end up at 2 and a
half percent also, without changing any of the grades that the
courthouse employees are. It looks like a 12.5 and a 13.5
instead of just 12's and 13's, and it keeps it two and a half
percent down, two and a half percent across, and that way it
takes care of the problem we had with the deputies. They fit
in without getting a large increase, you know, that 100,000.
So, it only makes that about 50 a year, but it gives a lot
more flexibility in the entire step and grade system.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, what Rusty's talking
about doing there, you can do that with other departments.
You could basically double the height of it and create --
instead of going from 13 to 14, you go from a 13 to 13.5, then
to 14.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It gives you a lot more
flexibility when you put it any step. I just think the Court
needs to see it, look at it and decide.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: The other big item in personnel that
I see before us is any restructuring additions or
subtractions. And that, of course, is going to affect
personnel costs. I'm not sure that we're really ready at this
juncture to move straight to that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that the -- and
I'll bring it up, because we have a lot of elected officials
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at bringing in or doing a pretty big reshuffle, hopefully
trying to figure out a way to get a receptionist in the
courthouse and bringing in probably an H.R. person, and we're
looking at -- our discussion has been a lot of trying to '
figure out how we can help every department head, elected
official in this restructuring. If there's functions that
y'all don't have to do that you're doing that can be done by
our receptionist, for example, such as handing out passport
information -- I'm not saying changing the passport, but all
that paperwork type thing, we want to know as to what
functions can be done by a receptionist-type person that's
somewhere on this first floor to keep people from going into
Jannett's office and Paula's office and asking questions and
being information directors, or coming into our office here.
L Handing out forms, things like that, is really what
that -- and really trying to have a true receptionist that can
help the court -- whole courthouse is what that function or
job really needs to be. Part of that also is trying to
figure -- we're looking at incorporating how an H.R. person --
well, as to how it all works. I think that we're at a --
because of some personnel changes and some other things, it's.
a -- and also the Court's looking at it for quite a bit of --
fair amount of restructuring of departments that report to the
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Commissioners Court, anyway.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question.
Trying to take it to the bottom line in English, do you see
having a receptionist that will hand out the paperwork -- is
there going to be enough in that to actually delete employees
I, in departments?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. I really don't
know. That's why --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the kind of -- is
I that what you're kind of thinking?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wanted to see what kind of
work a person like that could do and help -- and to hear from
the other departments what they can do. I know Jannett has
said that it's -- is it going to delete an employee? Probably
not at this time. Is it going to increase the efficiency of
I her office? Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Depends on what you crank
into the job, too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, depends what you crank
into the job.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you crank in centralized
mailing, centralized telephone, and a lot of clerking
functions, that might have some potential.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I have -- we brought it
up several weeks ago. I think Jannett -- and I don't know if
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MS. RECTOR: I don't know that you would be able to
train someone that --
MS. PIEPER: That broad.
taxes, motor vehicle questions --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not trying to do that.
I'm trying to get them to say -- you don't know how -- I mean,
y'all probably do, 'cause you're visible around here -- how
many times you walk out here and people don't know where to
go, and they wander into either our office or your office or
your office, just looking for directions.
MS. RECTOR: Yeah, every day.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those people wandering in are
taking time from your staff doing their job. And is it, you
know, five hours a day or an hour a day? Whatever it is, it's
a fair amount of time, because you just go out there any time
of the day; there's people out there, and they wander in. And
that wandering in is a disruption to whatever office they go
into.
MS. RECTOR: Sure.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- I mean, are they going
to be able to answer tax questions? Not the intent. "I have
a tax thing. Where do I go?" "Here, go to Ms. Rector's
office." If it's a question related to -- you know, if it's
people -- the public doesn't generally know, a lot of them,
you know, where to go for anything. We get in here countless
people trying to find the J.P.'s and wanting to pay tickets in
our office.
MS. RECTOR: May be totally unrelated to courthouse
business, too. May be City or Environmental Health or
U.G.R.A., and you've got to direct them to those various
locations.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the telephone is equally
distracting.
MS. RECTOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In terms of the calls that
get directed in here, that -- where they don't know where to
go, and so that takes away from this individual's time doing
other things to direct calls all over the building.
MR. ODOM: Then it goes to Road and Bridge.
(Laughter.)
(Several speaking at once.)
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't know where to go? Send
them to Road and Bridge.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the answer -- I don't think
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it's a direct reduction in anyone's staff, but I think it
improves efficiency for all of them, and down the -- and, if
anything, it certainly delays the need for additional staff
down the road. And -- go ahead, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: As a reminder, keep in mind, we got a
court reporter here, and she can only take one person at a
time, so let's try and keep that in mind.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She can only take one? Well,
there goes that salary, if she can't take but one at a time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to what I said
originally, it was -- if there's things that are being done in
an office, if it's handing out something, that can be done by
somebody that doesn't know anything about your office. Or if
y'all would rather have -- like, if it's passports, okay, it
needs to go to Linda. And if Linda would rather be -- I don't
know if you keep track of those things. It's just a question
to you all. Is there something that a receptionist that isn't
getting involved in your business at all can help you do
something?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think that's the right
approach, to say, "Assume that we're going to have a
receptionist, clerical type somewhere on this floor. Now,
everybody that works in the courthouse, tell us what that job
can do for you." And if the answer is nothing, then we need
to know that. If there -- if you think creatively, there's
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probably things it can do for you. And probably you're going
to connect that job somehow, if you have a human resource
function, with the clerical portion of the human resource
function.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Possibility.
MS. UECKER: Well, I can see where that -- that's
going to be useful for, you know, "Clerks office is this way,
the Tax Office is this way," but as far as giving out specific
information about the office itself and the information that
we provide to the public, I don't want anybody doing that that
I can't hire and fire.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think that's the
intent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The intent is to say, "I'm here
for jury duty. Where do I go?" And then how much --
MS. UECKER: And that's good.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. And if it's -- they can
look at the -- they have to be knowledgeable enough to look at
the summons and say, "Okay, County Court at Law." More
likely, you need to go upstairs and check in.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Had a fellow walk in here
yesterday morning -- I just happened to be at the counter
doing something. He walked in; he's got a piece of paper that
directs him to the 216th District Court. Well, he sees
25 ~ "Court" on the door, and he doesn't know where he's going to
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"Go there upstairs, and
MS. UECKER: Yeah, that would be good.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean -- yeah, and every time
someone comes into any of these offices down on the first
floor that gets the brunt of it -- you know, it may only be a
10-second interruption, but it's a 10-second interruption from
the job they're needing to do. And, quite frankly, in that
job and a lot of the other jobs, that person's being paid too
much to give directions. That person should be doing
technical type work and be more efficient than just walking
around giving directions, and that's probably the same with
everyone in all of these offices. They have functions, and
they shouldn't be giving directions.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's getting a little nosy,
isn't he? 'Cause we're the hall monitors here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In your territory, isn't he?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Intrusive.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think this conversation
actually started with cost of employees and number of
employees and all that, and I -- I thought we were going to •
get to a point to where, if we hire a hall monitor, then we're
going to be able to reduce numbers, or with the new computer
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system and the amount of work it does, that we would at some
point be able to reduce employees.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that was how we were
sold the computer system, but I'm a little bit leery about
bringing it up at the current point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably this year, yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Auditor? Based upon -- and I saw
Mr. Trolinger here, but apparently he had to step out. Where
we are in our transition over to the Odyssey system and new --
and the new software that we've just put in? Is that going to
increase our efficiency in any of these offices at this point?
Next month or so? To the extent that --
MR. TOMLINSON: I really can't --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- we can reduce the number of
MR. TOMLINSON: I really can't comment too much on
the Odyssey system. I know that it will help. I know that
it'll help us in what we do. I mean, because we can -- we
have access to reports that we -- we can actually -- for
instance, in the J.P. offices, if we want to audit a J.P.
office, we can tell the system that we want to see all their
receipts for a period of time. We don't have to actually get
the paper. We can print out receipts that they've collected
for one day or two days or -- or whatever we -- whatever we
select, and so we can actually -- we can actually do most of
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our audit work in the office rather than having to go to their
office to do it. Right now, we -- to look at -- at receipts,
we -- for instance, for J.P. 4, we'd have to drive to Ingram
to do that, and now we -- we can, I think, actually do that in
the office.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's Odyssey doing for
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot. Okay? It -- efficiency
on how much information we get in the system and how we can
get information from different courthouse stuff and how we
view it is -- is a dramatic improvement. Yes, there are still
some glitches in it, but they have the programming that
they've got to get worked out. Efficiency on -- on, you know,
having photographs in an actual case file instead of stored
somewhere else and you have to go get them and things like
that, that's where -- we were operating off 20-year-old
technology. Now the County is upgraded for this century's
technology. And what you're -- what I think you're really
going to see is not a reduction in any kind of manpower
anywhere. I think what you're going to see is a more
efficient, easier way to communicate, just like what's Tommy's
talking about, without having to go and get things. You .can
get it. If the public wants -- the public information part's
going to have so much easier access to it on the County's web
site and a lot of that information, where it may help cut down
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's use an example that we
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. It should
many implications in it. Like, with my office being the
biggest one, I have a personnel clerk. But the timesheets
that we do fill out on computer, it's just on an in-house type
deal. The -- the individual employee fills it out; his
supervisor has to check it. They have three different forms
that they also have to fill out if they have overtime or
switching shifts or -- or taking comp time off or anything
like that. Then, at the end of the pay period, all that gets
compiled together. The personnel clerk doublechecks it to
I make sure all the times match. You know, they've got a slip
for taking off if they took off this day. What we have to
look at in this new system is the approval part. I don't want
an employee just filling it out on that system and then
pushing "Submit" and it automatically going to Barbara without
it having been checked by other supervisors and that, you
know, check and balance.
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Basically --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's pretty simple, from what
John said yesterday. If you don't have an access code to send
it, you can't send it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can't figure out why that
part of the system, okay, that -- that I think even my
department -- me, I haven't looked at it. Because of how much
the system -- Odyssey changed 100 percent of everything that
we do, and we have been working the last few months getting
the bugs out of what we already have had and making sure our
reports are right and making sure that everything we've
already been doing is right, okay, and -- and is accurate.
And everybody's been spending their time getting all those
little things taken out before we start really using the
additional new things. We've had to get some -- some minor
stuff taken --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, I think it's the
sense of the Court that we want that particular module, the
payroll module, in service, ready to go by September 30.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what I've told my
people. That's what I heard the other day.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The beginning of the new
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I told them, and I told
Trolinger yesterday, as soon as he gets a chance, I need to
sit down with him so I can see exactly all the steps through
it to make sure it works before I can start individually
', having my 95 people, you know, trained in using it and making
sure that our checks and balances will still be followed.
MR. TROLINGER: I've looked at that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's no problem with it.
It's just learning it.
MR. TROLINGER: And I've looked at that. I've
really got to go to the department head level or the shift
supervisor level for the Sheriff's Office first to start this.
It's -- trying to make this change in one fell swoop I think
would create a lot of disruption. And it would probably help
Barbara also, because basically we're training in-house on
this new -- new software module that we have for electronic
time reporting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You have two months to get
it ready.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there are --
Commissioner, there are things, just like little things --
like right now on my jail census, I run a jail census report
which is supposed to always tell me who's in jail and what
charges they are currently in jail for. You know, somebody
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may come into jail with 15 charges, and as those charges get
taken care of, that information is entered in the system-and
that charge drops off. So, when I run a report and we go
through our main deal, which is our jail census, they're only
in there on active charges. Well, right now, the new system,
just programming and that, is not dropping off the charges
that are taken care of, so it's still showing them in jail
with charges that have already been taken care of, and we have
to individually -- and it's a software deal. It's a new
system, that there's just some things that -- that have to be~
corrected.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like -- I got one more --
MR. TROLINGER: That's on the patch list.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got one more question. I
want to get back on the time card thing. Now, let's just
pretend that we get Rusty up and running, get him trained and
on it and we're ready to rock and roll, electronically send
the timesheets over here. Barbara, is your office ready to
receive them and -- I mean, has everybody been trained to
where you're ready to receive them and --
MS. NEMEC: We kind of touched on it with the
~ Auditor's office doing it, but I'm -- I don't think that at my
end, it would take much to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, neither end is ready to
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just not ready to go.
MR. EMERSON: I want to throw my two cents in. And
correct me if my information is wrong, but I don't think
you're going to get the efficiency that you think you're going
to get out of your payroll system, because there is no
electronic time clock in the system. Therefore, all you're
doing is a glorified computer version of the handwritten sheet
that you're already doing.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably true.
MR. TROLINGER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We may have the efficiency
on this end, and maybe not on the input end.
MR. EMERSON: We'll be the only major company, for
lack of a better word, that I know of that has a computer
payroll system that doesn't have a time clock built in, where
your employee can come in, log into their computer, it clocks
in the time clock, and that's where their time goes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why can't we do that, John?
MR. TROLINGER: It's something I didn't even think
about. Rex brought it up Monday, and I've got on it my list
to make a call and research it, see what we can do.
MS. PIEPER: And what's going to end up happening is
we're going to end up keeping two sets of books, because when
my deputy's in the computer, they're going to look to see if
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probably end up having another sheet of paper saying, okay,
you got 30 minutes overtime because of the jury trial or
whatever.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why can't we keep that in the
same system?
MR. TROLINGER: It's just another line item, the
comp time. It's just another line item on the electronic time
card.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's why I think -- I mean,
I'm not going to have a whole lot of sympathy for any
department keeping a second set of books because they don't
trust the system.
MS. PIEPER: Well, it's not that I don't trust it.
Right now, I don't know how to use it, but if I submit it to
Barbara, is the computer going to tell her to pay that person
30 minutes overtime?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, John just said it will be
in the same system. You --
MR. TROLINGER: There's a distinction between the
comp time and overtime.
MS. PIEPER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So I think you -- I mean, we
spent -- I'm going to say this probably 10 times or more
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during the budget process -- over a million dollars on the
computer system at the recommendation of all the department
period. I mean, it's that -- it's that simple. I mean, we
can't afford not to use it after we bought it. And it was
sold to this Court on the basis it's going to give us improved
productivity and decrease manpower needs. Now, is it going
to -- you know, and it's going to be real hard to see --
there's not going to be a person in Linda's office that's
going to be saved, I mean, 'cause it's a little bit here, a
little bit there. But there should be manpower efficiency
gained by the system.
MR. TROLINGER: Let me give you an example to that.
The County Clerk's office just went to credit card payments,
taking online credit card payments, so, basically, now she
can --
MS. PIEPER: But that has nothing to do with the
Odyssey program. Absolutely nothing.
MR. TROLINGER: Okay. So, the -- so the public can
now go to the public web site and look up their case and their
cause number; they can then go to the electronic payment
instructions and make their payment online. And that's
ail something the J.P.'s are also moving towards, and that's going
to reduce the foot traffic. It's going to stop the ramp up,
if you will, of the line of people waiting in the hallway to
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that the --
MR. TROLINGER: It's not necessarily that it's --
someone can be eliminated, because --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It goes to efficiency.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
every day on, you know, our bookings, our releases, anything
that goes on at the jail. Now all that is set up to where it
automatically, at a certain time every morning, e-mails those
releases to that media outfit. I no longer have to print them
out, fax them, you know, do the cover sheets on the back.
It's efficiency that's fabulous. And the web site pulls up --
they can pull up and see who was in jail, get their inmate
photograph off that web site when they do that. The
efficiency is going to be great. Will it save the number of
~I, people? No, because now we also have the capability of
entering a lot of stuff into the system that we never were
able to enter before, and that's taking more time, but it has.
to be done. It needs to be done on liability issues.
MR. TROLINGER: It gives you statistical reports and
I whatnot.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. TROLINGER: Better reporting.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Auditor, you had a --
MR. TOMLINSON: You asked for something about the
financial system, and I just wanted to give you an example --
another example of -- of efficiency. From -- I mean, the
system has been all -- it's not all payroll. There's a lot of
other modules to this payroll system -- I mean to the
accounting system. This report that I gave you today, where I
got the number -- this number, this 6 billion, 41 thousand,
under the old -- under the old system or the prior system, .
', that process would have probably taken me a half a day, 'cause
I would have had to manually take the totals from each line
item -- each payroll line item and add them up manually to get
that number. In the new system, I was able to create a report
under the parameters that I wanted, and I did it in about
maybe 20 minutes. And I -- I did this report -- no more than
30 minutes, it took me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go. You reduced
the Auditor's office a part-time employee.
MR. TOMLINSON: In fact, so there --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Sheriff electronically
sends the information over; you eliminate two deputies having
to carry all that paperwork back and forth. I see where the
thing is going to save some money.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's going to cut back on
people. And it's a myth that technology doesn't reduce
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that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's going to neutralize the
County Clerk asking for two more deputies.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's -- when's the last
time you saw a want ad for a key punch operator? There used
to be a few million of them in the U.S. workforce. Same way
with drafters. There's no occupation left for drafters; PC's
eliminated them. What I'm hearing is, it's not going to help
us here; we're going to spend a million dollars for it, and we
still need as many people as we ever did. Maybe that's why
those 14 other counties are operating with less people.
', They're better at using the technology.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know. Could be.
MR. TROLINGER: There's a lot of initiative involved
in taking advantage of the new software programs, and a few
departments have done that. But it does move the data entry
from the -- from the counter, if you will, to the web site,
and there are a lot of examples where the data entry's being
done by the payee, for example, instead of someone at the
counter with people in line.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One very major deal that it
did -- or that it will do, is three months ago in a federal
lawsuit we had, I got the discovery granted by a federal judge
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saying I had to go back and pull every incident report and
every sick call for five years for anybody that fell in a
cell, fell off a bunk or had a seizure. Okay, all that had to
be done by hand through five years of paperwork, searching it.
We worked for three weeks to meet the deadline until after
midnight going through individual reports. The new system
allows all those reports to be entered in the system at the
time that they happen, and then I can pull it back out by
pushing a button and asking for it. That's your efficiency
difference. It's things that come up that, all of a sudden,
you're spending hours of stuff to research, where we can
research it in the new system in a matter of minutes.
MR. TROLINGER: But you've got more data entry to do
now as a result.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot more data entry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- hopefully, all
of y'all understand this -- that this discussion is not
unrelated to the step and grade discussion. We cannot -- we
don't have the money to just increase grades or steps, either
one, for that matter, or percentages without doing staff
reductions. We just can't do it. We don't have the money
coming in, and the taxpayers of this county I think have said
to me loud and clear, they do not and will not support any
kind of a tax increase, you know, for just operations. I
mean, maybe for a specific, you know, function we can get
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something through, through a bond issue type thing or through
a tax certificate, something like that, we've done some of our
projects with. But under operations, I think it's been loud
and clear, there is a tax freeze. I mean, City of Kerrville's
going to have a real hard time not implementing a tax freeze.
I don't really support it. I didn't support it on the Court;
everyone knows that, but the community certainly does, and
that's how this community feels about taxes. So, we're not
increasing taxes. I just don't see that happening. The
public doesn't want us to. So, if you all want us to pay more
for employees, the money's got to come from somewhere, and
we've got to have some -- and that's what we're trying to do,
is just trying to get feedback as to, you know, how can we do'
this? Where can we make efficiency savings? We bought the
technology that we wanted; now we need the manpower reduction.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Uecker is volunteering to go.
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MS. UECKER: Yeah, I'm leaving. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: She had her hand raised there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't come up with this,
MS. UECKER: Well, to let the Court --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- I don't own my house.
I'm renting it from local government.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am?
MS. UECKER: We will use the system. It is going to
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improve efficiency. Unfortunately, the glitches have been
very significant. They're not little glitches; they are huge
glitches. For instance, our financial reports are taking
about three times as long right now to do as they were before,
but it's a glitch; it's a big glitch. Our CJIS report, we are
about five months behind right now submitting CJIS reports,
because there's a huge glitch at the Sheriff's Department, and
until it gets fixed there, I can't do a thing with it. And I
guess Jannett can't either. I think it needs to be considered
that right now, I have at least a 25 percent increase in
filings, and I'm not asking for new staff, so I think in that
!, capacity, it is -- it will be more efficient, but now we're
~ having a real hard time. I've got people staying voluntarily,
you know, after 5:00 to try to get caught up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some of the savings are
clearly not going to be as quick as we had thought and hoped,
but as long as they're coming -- as long as --
MS. UECKER: They're coming.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- they're going to be there is
the important thing.
JUDGE TINLEY: That was the reason for my question
to the Auditor a little bit ago about his take on how the
transition is going, and whether we're starting to get
increased efficiency yet or how much longer it's going to
take. And I understand that we may have us a delayed
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efficiency factor here, and I think we can all accept that and
understand why that might be, if -- if there's got to be a
learning curve. The other thing that I think we possibly need
to have from the Auditor that I'm not sure we have in-hand,
but we need to have before us, we have -- we have at least one
obligation I can think of that's a fixed obligation for this
coming budget year that we did not have in the last budget
year that we're going to have to be mindful of. This system.
We're going to have to pay a chunk of money for this system
this year, and we need to know what that figure is, 'cause
~, that's over and above what we were looking at last year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't something come off --
didn't another tax anticipation note come off this year like
that?
MR. TOMLINSON: It was off last year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last year? Last year.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, that's something that we're going
to need to know what we're looking at in terms of fixed
obligations for this coming budget year.
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. I --
JUDGE TINLEY: That we weren't looking at last year.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't recall -- I already know
that's, you know, in the requested budget.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
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MR. TOMLINSON: It's in there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's not in any -- in any of
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't recall what the amount is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's in the preliminary summary
schedule, I think, isn't it?
MR. TOMLINSON: It's -- I have -- I have estimated
-- well, I know what the payments are going to be, and I set
up a revenue or a department to collect tax for that, and I
have that amount in the -- on the revenue side. And, however,
that is -- that's a qualified debt, and that's -- that's
~ different from -- from operation rate.
JUDGE TINLEY: I understand. But the bottom line
is, we need to be mindful of that in looking at what we have
to work with, because that's coming off the top any way you
look at it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is the --
JUDGE TINLEY: Any new debt.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Those costs you're talking
about, are they in this budget we've got now?
', JUDGE TINLEY: They're in the overall budget, but
they're not in the various departments' budgets that you're
~ seeing. You don't see that reflected. We're looking at,
what, about $230,000 or something, ballpark, on the Odyssey?
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MR. TOMLINSON: I don't remember.
JUDGE TINLEY: May not be quite that much.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's less than that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's going to be about 230.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five-year --
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wasn't it rolled in with a
different -- I thought it was combined to keep the debt more
level on another note.
MR. TOMLINSON: I didn't bring that with me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What other --
MR. TOMLINSON: I know exactly what it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's about 225,000, $230,000,
ballpark, though, isn't it, Tommy?
MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's more than that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, the -- so, last year the
courthouse renovation rolled off. Is it next year that the --
or the year after when the --
MR. TOMLINSON: Radio.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- radio towers -- when's that
coming off? Next year?
MR. TOMLINSON: Next year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next year this one comes off, so
i one more.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next -- the upcoming budget
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year, it's off.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have one more year.
MR. TOMLINSON: We have one more --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One more payment.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think when the courthouse
renovation rolled off, about the same amount of money came in
for Juvenile Detention Facility.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, exactly.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That equaled out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: About a wash.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this is going to be a -- up
this year, and then next year we drop off the -- the radio
tower -- or the communications system.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which should be a pretty
comparable amount to what we're -- maybe it's a little bit
less.
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. The principal amount is
I almost a --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's over a million dollars,
though, so actually probably a little bit -- come out a little
bit to the black.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I don't know where
Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just have a question.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And kind of -- it's really a
question, and it's about people that are tapping into our
system that are illegal aliens. I kind of understand the
court issue that we dealt with on Monday, the interpreter and
those other costs. When somebody breaks the law, we arrest
them and run them through the court system. I understand
that. But are there any other places in county government
that -- any social services that we provide to people that are
in this country illegally that tap into our system? Are there
other places? Because I'm going to vote no to do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: You make a good point. Of course, on
the -- the defense costs, those are covered by court
decisions, and I don't think there's anything new along that
line -- is there, Rex? -- that allows us the ability to
exclude providing them -- if they have the same indigency
status as citizens, to -- to deny them attorneys?
MR. EMERSON: Not that I'm aware of, no.
JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, we -- we're giving lawyers to
the Al-Quaida folks now.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand that part
of it. But, you know, like, as an example, --
JUDGE TINLEY: Indigent health.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- indigent health care.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're in that line. With
what the Court action did the other day with the new company
that's going to do the indigent health care and all that, that
may -- I got to thinking about it afterwards because of the
effect it's going to have on inmates and all that. That
inmate medical expense will end up going into that, which goes
into the factor in the 8 percent. That may -- except for what
we pay our jail doctor, which isn't that much; it's a contract
deal. That has the potential of cutting almost $200,000 out
of my budget, because it all goes into the indigent deal
instead of the -- instead of the jail medical.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, but it drives the
indigent up quicker. All you're doing is shifting from the
left pocket to the --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it goes toward the
8 percent max, which none of that counts towards that
8 percent max right now or whatever.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think it's a direct transfer.
I think if his cost is 200, by the time it gets -- if it goes
into indigent health, it's significantly less than 200, maybe
120 or something.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let us hope.
JUDGE TINLEY: So there's -- I think there's a
they're in this country legally. And according to Ms. Taylor,
who is our representative at the hospital now, she says that's
a very, very small part of indigent health care. I was really
surprised at that, and I'm sure you remember it, because we --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She had two on the books, I
think.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At that time.
JUDGE TINLEY: But she says that's a very, very
small part of it, and I was rather surprised at that. So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just can't imagine a
federal or state law mandating the taxpayers to pay for
someone that's not here legally. I -- I don't believe that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Imagine it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't believe it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's the courts. The
courts have done it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, sure, people are doing
25 ~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, courts have mandated
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you will do it. That's what they did with the whole jail
you say, we're not paying it. So, that's kind of where I'm .
at. I think it's absolutely asinine, ridiculous.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't disagree with you at
all. So, what you're saying is you want us to pass an order
'I -- I would support this, I think -- that indigents -- no
health care funds can go to indigents -- to illegal aliens off
indigent health care. I mean --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good start, yeah.
That's a good start. My question is, where throughout our --
the county system -- you know, I understand the court system.
People that break the law, I want them -- I want them put in
jail for a long time. And -- but indigent health care, I
don't understand. Are there other places in our system that
they tap into?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are other places. I'm
not sure it's in the county system. For example, temporary
assistance for needy families, those are federal tax dollars,
and they roll down in a different direction. Doesn't
necessarily reflect in the county budget, but there are other
ways that they're tapped in.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those agencies that we do
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fund, I'm drawing a blank on.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: CASA.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: CASA.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do they provide services to
people that are not legal?
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, on occasion I would imagine that
they do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Your C.P.S. cases where lawyers are
provided when children are going to be removed from the home,
those are civil cases. That's another area I think that
there's no distinction made whether they're legally in this
country or not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe it's a question we can ask
Rex to research. Can we withhold funds for -- I mean,
obviously, for giving a lump sum to CASA, make it a
requirement to that interlocal -- or to that contract with
CASA or whoever. Can we do anything to say that we're not
going to provide indigent health care to illegal aliens?
MR. EMERSON: I think the proper response would be
to ask the Court to give me a list of each and every one of
the services that you want to withhold support of, because
they're all going to have separate legal bases, and then let
me start picking it apart one at a time.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Indigent health care would be
the one that is, to me, the most obvious. The other reality
is that CASA -- they're going to say, yes, we're not going to
use Court funds for that, and they may use other funds for it.
That's how I suspect they get around it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The defense for Child
Protective Services came down as a state mandate. What are
you going to do about that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's what I'm saying. I
mean, that's what Rex is saying; ask him to look at specific
ones. Indigent health care is an easy -- not necessarily from
JUDGE TINLEY: I certainly -- I think there may be a
liability issue if we attempt to do it in any of the criminal
cases, persons accused of crimes, because a large portion of
those defense costs -- I say a large portion. Some portion
are reimbursed by the state via the feds under the Fair
Defense program. So --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- I wouldn't want to jeopardize
getting those funds back.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think there's also --
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that one around, why don't we take about a 15-minute recess,
give Kathy a break here, and we'll come back and chew on
whatever else we need to chew on.
(Recess taken from 10:26 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order.
We're in our workshop relating to budget matters, matters
having budgetary impact. What else do we need to resolve here
this morning? I heard one comment that we need to come up
with a schedule on consideration of various department
budgets. That certainly seems to be one item that we need to
do. Do you want to work on that?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question is, before we get
into actually setting dates, is have the individuals come in
and we just have -- like we've always done, have the
discussion and, you know, "Why do you need Number 2 leaded
pencils?" And --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I've done, Commissioner,
as in -- very similar to past years, when I asked for budget
', requests, I told them at the time that other than mandatory
25 ~ increases for longevity and education and a COLA, which the
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Court requested be plugged in, and I think we had enough of
that today, I was not going to -- I thought any other
personnel type matters was a matter for the Court to fully
discuss and come down on. And I was not going to make any
specific recommendations there with regard to capital outlay;
of course, those items are for the entire Court. Having said
that, that's primarily what you're going to be hearing from
each department, I suspect. But I did tell them -- each
department or each elected official that, certainly, they were
free to come to the Court and discuss any modifications I had
made. If I -- if I made a change in what they requested, they
could -- they were perfectly at liberty to ask us whatever
they wanted.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we'll schedule the
departments on certain hours on certain days, and when they
come in here, they can, of course, have the freedom to discuss
anything, anywhere.
JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm good with that.
JUDGE TINLEY: But I'm hopeful that -- I'm hopeful
that most of the -- I'm going to call it the ordinary,
relatively unimportant stuff, I will have gotten resolved by
virtue of my -- my contact with the departments.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
25 ~ JUDGE TINLEY: So that what you guys are dealing
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outlay items. That stuff will be pretty mundane.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What I'm thinking is, prior
to you, we have seen the system work in the way that you've
just described, and then later on, the County Judge changes
some numbers and we don't know it, and the elected official
didn't know it until his budget time, so I just wanted to make
sure that we all get everything out on the table. And, I
mean, this was prior to you. I'm not -- I just don't want
that to happen any more. We need to make sure that
everything's -- all the changes and things are out on the
table and everybody's -- everybody understands what the number
-- actual numbers are to go to print in the actual budget.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other -- I'm sorry,
Dave.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'd like to take these 25
different tabs -- or these categories and establish a schedule
that, in two sessions or three sessions or whatever is
reasonable, that we're going to go over each of those budgets
that's in this book.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's pick the dates. Then
25 ~ COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And invite the supervisor
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or elected official to be here when we do that, so -- so we
don't go along having people sitting in here that don't have
I an interest or don't want to be here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to pick the
dates that we're going to meet, and then assign those. But we
also have one other, Judge, that falls outside the category of
mundane, and that is our contracts with the City of Kerrville
for various and sundry joint projects. That's going to
have -- that's going to have a major shaping of our thinking
here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Those numbers are not scheduled to be
presented to the City Council until two weeks from yesterday.
That's the earliest they're going to be presented to City
Council, according to my understanding. We have a joint
meeting with the City on August the 9th to try and work those
numbers.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me say one thing. The --
the ambulance and the fire contract information numbers are
supposed to arrive here in writing this week, so you'll have
I! that much to go -- to go on.
JUDGE TINLEY: Just to begin chewing on.
~~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, to what -- to what will
be presented to the City Council.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: EMS and fire?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we'll have -- we'll have
a proposal on an airport number by today. Actually, I think
we already have a proposal, but I don't think it's going to --
that's what the final number's going to be. My question is
that -- you know, and I don't know how we get this across. I
couldn't be more unhappy with the City's response for trying
to meet with the County this year. And I wish there -- we
don't have any press here today. We were -- we tried to set
up this meeting as early as the 1st of July or late June with
every -- and tried to get them to come every way we could to
meet with us in a meaningful time, and once again, they just
stonewalled and basically refused to meet, and kept on --
every time we had a date settled, then they'd cancel it and
cancel it, and now we're up until, you know, the second week
of August, which makes this meeting meaningless from our
standpoint. We have to have our budget pretty much done by
then. And it just really irritates me, and I don't know how
we, you know, convey this to the City. I mean, if they -- I
personally don't see the point in meeting on August 9th. At
that point, it's done. We don't have time to make changes in
these things of any significance. And it really bothers me
of -- and I don't know if it's the mayor, I don't know if it's
the City Manager. I don't know where the problem was over
there, but it -- I mean, I'd hate to count the number of
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e-mails of Kathy trying to schedule a meeting with the City
Council. It is ridiculous.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It has been.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's bad-faith
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think they had any
intention of meeting with us, personally, the way they've done
it. Only reason I bring it up is because we're talking about
city contracts right here. You know, if it wouldn't -- I
really think it's a waste of time, you know, to meet on
August 9th. I mean, I'm not going to -- you know, we'll try
to work on these individual ones.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly the reason I
asked them to get those numbers over here in writing this
week. And far as I'm concerned, we can move forward with the
numbers that they provide us this week.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're going to get EMS
and fire soon. We'll get airport soon. We've already got the
library. So, I -- sounds like we're being invited to act
unilaterally on those contracts.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, I don't see the
point of meeting on the 9th, is my bottom line.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's the other option that we
have. We work off the best available information that we
have, and we get -- we light on a preliminary number and
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communicate it to them. And if -- if the information flow is
as you've indicated, it may well be that that's an item we
want to address next Tuesday afternoon on our budget workshop
session that we've already got scheduled. Because I --
Commissioner Williams is right, those are some of major, major
components of what we're going to have to look at, and -- and
represent some significant potential increases. And I think .
', it may be well just to go ahead and do some preliminary work
on that next Tuesday, and maybe communicate some -- some
initial numbers to the City of what our inclination is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, really -- I think where
I'm going with this, I'd like to see us correspond with the
City and say we're glad to meet with y'all, but we can't wait,
and we have told you this, for our budget. Our numbers are
done, and we don't need to talk about budget numbers at this
meeting. We'll be glad to meet with y'all, but we've done our
budget. We told you we were going to have it done by the 1st
of August, and we're done. We're not going to reopen this
whole can of worms, because there's no point to discuss it at
this point. Even if they come in good faith to discuss some
of these items, we don't have time to make major changes in --
you know, in funding and things, and neither do they at this
point.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's schedule a discussion
of those budgets, just like we are everything else, and
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communicate that schedule to the City. If somebody --
somebody from the City wants to show up and represent the
City --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We ought to pick those up at
our next meeting.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good idea.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me ask you -- just a
detail. Have we communicated the Rabies and Animal Control
initial proposed budget to them? I haven't.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think -- no, I have not.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Would you do that?
Send this -- send the City Manager a copy of the proposed
budget?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What time's our next meeting
for the 18th, Judge?
JUDGE TINLEY: 1:30.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1:30.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a perfect time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right after lunch.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 18th? Yeah, let's talk
about those three things first; EMS, fire, airport, library,
and Rabies and Animal Control.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three items?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Four things.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you named five.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All city.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Commissioner Letz is
right; we'll probably have a pretty good handle on what the
airport budget's going to be after this afternoon. We have a
joint meeting this afternoon.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's all of our joint
operations, isn't it? Those things?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, we've actually got the Recycling
I Center.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I just --
JUDGE TINLEY: We own it; they operate it, but we
generally don't have any --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We don't pay any part of
the operating costs?
JUDGE TINLEY: No.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, next Tuesday we're doing
all City/County?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Joint ops.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Joint ops.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And if you'll communicate that
to the City, that we can't wait until August 9th; we're going
to do our numbers now, and we'll be glad to see them and talk
about whatever they want other than budget items on the 9th.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, you please do it.
Don't let Letz send the message.
JUDGE TINLEY: I was going to let him draft the
letter, let you sign it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, no.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: After this afternoon --
there will be plenty said this afternoon.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We sat down and talked
about one of these items last year. City Council met with us
and advised us early on, "I'm not here to negotiate." Well,
what the hell's the purpose of the meeting?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Non-negotiable" was the
term.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what we heard, Judge.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You talk to them. Y'all don't
want me talking to them either.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've already had that
conversation. I told them -- I told the City Manager and the
Fire Chief, "Do not come to our table with the word
'non-negotiable' on your lips."
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We need to think about some
additional days to do the departmental budgets, it appears,
~~, right?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: And then I can work with Commissioner
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Nicholson in working up -- going down this index, and we'll
work up a schedule, and we'll print it up and distribute it to
all the elected officials, department heads, and members of
the Court. How does that sound?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds good to me.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Would not have sounded good if
I'd have mentioned working with you to do that, right?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, to any elected official
here, do they have any -- well, why don't we pick the dates
first, then see if we can accommodate some of them, instead of
just trying to fit them in when, obviously, you're going to be
here, if you're going to be out for a while.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The second one's the 18th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When?
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to try the following day,
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What day of the week is the
18th?
JUDGE TINLEY: Tuesday.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can do it in the afternoon
on that day. I got AACOG in the morning.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Thursday?
JUDGE TINLEY: Thursdays --
25 ~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm wide-open.
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JUDGE TINLEY: I've got juvies in the afternoon and
probate in the morning, so I don't have much time on
Thursdays. Mondays and Tuesday mornings are not good for me.
Wednesdays and Fridays are my best day. Tuesday afternoons
are okay.
COMMISSIONER. LETZ: How about Friday morning?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can do it Wednesday
afternoon, if you want to do it Wednesday afternoon, the 19th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Wednesday afternoon at
1:30 again?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can be back by 1:30.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to miss your
I meal.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no meal on this one.
The following Wednesday has a meal.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How about two more dates?
Tuesday and Wednesday, the 18th and 19th. How about Tuesday
and Wednesday of the next week?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tuesday, the 25th?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That does not work. I'm at
I Region J all day.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How about Monday? That
doesn't work for the Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's court day.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioners Court. How about
-- well, we can do it --
JUDGE TINLEY: The following day, the 26th, is okay.
Want to start at 9:00 on the 26th?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm out-of-pocket on the
I 26th.
JUDGE TINLEY: On the 26th, you're gone?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: AACOG.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this an all-day --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the one that -- yeah,
it's all -- most of the day.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wide-open on Thursday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about Friday? He's --
that's not good for him.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thursdays are always bad days for me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Friday?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Friday is wide-open.
JUDGE TINLEY: 28th?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 9 o'clock a.m. the 28th?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Friday, 28th of July, 9 a.m.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's see if we can fit it
into those three dates, 18th, 19th, and 28th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's going to be hard to
I do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless we can --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let's set it for what day?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Excluding the Sheriff, we can do
I it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the afternoon of
Monday, the 24th, after Commissioners Court?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, why don't we do that?
That will work.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause we're all here
~ already.
JUDGE TINLEY: Except I got juveniles at 3:00.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sorry about this.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 24th? That's not good for
me, either.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's go to the following
Monday, the 31st.
JUDGE TINLEY: 31st?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That works.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 9 a.m.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That ought to be plenty,
shouldn't it?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That ought to be plenty to get
it in. That way we're done by the lst of August.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Done by the 1st of August.
Do we know -- Judge, do we know everything we need to know
about employee health insurance costs?
JUDGE TINLEY: I've got Mr. Looney coming -- glad
you mentioned that -- next Tuesday at our workshop to give us
those budget numbers.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, in addition to the City, we're
going to have health benefits.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: At what point -- I mean, we've
talked a lot about some reorganization and doing some things.
At what point are we going to -- I mean, it's pretty -- these
are pretty important budget-wise.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Need to get that resolved
before you start cranking the handle.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it almost -- I'd recommend
we get at least a format for doing that done on the 18th, too.
When we leave that meeting, we at least -- even if we don't
get the City done, insurance, get all the other things that
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- departments.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, 18th, we got City/County
joint operations, health benefits, and reorganization issues.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Then we've got the others.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to do a memo,
right?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we're going to work up -- work
up a schedule on it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Be a pretty full afternoon.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It'll be fun.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's get it done.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- and I am serious that
we need to send a memo to the City saying I don't know what
they envision to happen on the 9th of August, but I don't see
that as a budget meeting. I see that as a -- yeah, let's get
together and say hi and talk about next year's budget, but --
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think I'm going to write,
"Let's get together and say hi." (Laughter.) Send them a
kumbayah message.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not "hi." "Howdy."
25 ~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anything coming from you will be
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me, I can assure you.
JUDGE TINLEY: If there's going to be a kumbayah
message, Commissioner, you may send it.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe we could talk about
that $94,000 that they still owe us.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to keep that in our
back pocket.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, anyway, I just think it's --
that we need to work on the agenda. If they think we're
working on budget at this meeting, I think they need to be
informed that that's not my vision for that meeting.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We'll be through by then.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, Mr. Tomlinson?
i
I'I MR. TOMLINSON: Well, is there a way that -- that
maybe, on some departmental budgets, if -- if there's no
change from the requested to the recommended, that we could
have the department head sign off on that budget and not even
have to -- have to have them in here?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, I want to take a look
at it.
MR. TOMLINSON: No, I mean the whole Court, I mean,
25 ~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- I think what I hear
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Tommy saying is that the way -- this is basically saving a lot
of time for department heads, and I -- you know, I agree with
~' that, and I've -- 'cause a lot of times we go through -- but
the other side of that, though, is it's a good opportunity to
try to get, especially with the Odyssey, a little bit of
feedback as to where we're going, manpower. Just like Linda's
comments, to me, are real helpful, is that, you know, "Don't
i
even think of looking towards me for any personnel, because
I'm so far behind because of this mess you've got us into
already." But I see that it's going to help them maybe next
year. That kind of information is real helpful to me. So,
that's the kind of stuff that -- you know, that's why I think
it's probably good for -- even if it's real short. I think it
needs to be a pretty short meeting, but at least a direction
as to, you know, a little bit looking down the road, too, what
Odyssey's going to do, 'cause Odyssey's a big part of all
this -- this big picture this year.
MR. TOMLINSON: You know, there's times when -- you•
know, when you go over, line item by line item, items that
you've already settled on.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not --
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't see a reason to rehash those
kind of things.
JUDGE TINLEY: As a practical matter, Tommy, what
II happens is after I review them with the elected official or
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get resolved, when they come to the Court, they want to talk
about that one or two items. And then, if they got some
~~ personnel issues or some capital outlay -- really, I'm just
cutting out the middle for the most part, or most of it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't go over line item by
line item any more.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No. But just because it's
a business-as-usual budget, meaning no significant increases,
that doesn't mean we don't need to say, why do we need
business as usual? Janie's just leaving; I want to ask Janie,
why not something different than business as usual? You know,
but you guys need to hear that, too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: By the way, I think it's
just a perfunctory matter that the City has notified us that
they want to -- they've canceled the Rabies and Animal Control
contract, and they want to renegotiate that. One of the
'~ things that's on their list is for us to resume picking up
animal carcasses in the city.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Cost factor attached to
that? I assume there's a cost factor attached to that?
25 ~ COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. It's really more
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than the cost factor; it's productivitity. It's not just
picking up carcasses. We have to disinfect the vehicle and
everything. We don't want to do it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I see it, it's a -- because
of the manpower issue also, from the standpoint of the size of
the animals, and a lot of times you -- I mean, you have to
take -- two people have to go out to lift up some of these
things.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or it could be $5,000 or
$6,000 an animal.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pickup.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: By the head?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Same price as an EMS run.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, things are fast deteriorating.
Anybody else got any more business under the -- under the
agenda item for this workshop? Hearing -- what?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, I was just -- I thought you
were -- I just didn't want Rex to leave. We're out of the
workshop, in my mind. I have a question for Rex before he
runs back downstairs.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Nothing further on the
~ workshop?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My only comment, Judge, you had
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asked at the beginning -- I don't have anything else. My
vacation is over. I don't know what the other elected
officials have, so whenever y'all decide to schedule the
Sheriff's Office, just let me know.
MS. PIEPER: You got a vacation?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I escaped.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, used his fireplace up in
I Colorado.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, never made it to Colorado.
JUDGE TINLEY: Rusty and I had a kumbayah meeting.
Okay. Hearing nothing further on this agenda item, we'll
stand adjourned.
(Budget workshop adjourned at 11:19 a.m.)
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STATE OF TEXAS I
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my
capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court
of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place
heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 19th day of
July, 2006.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY: __ _ __ _ ____ ______ ____ _
Kathy nik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
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