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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Budget Workshop
Wednesday, July 19, 2006
1:30 p.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
July 19, 2006
PAGE
Review and discuss various matters with respect to
FY 2006-07 Budget and matters having budgetary impact,
including but not limited to the following matters
and/or the consideration of budgets for the following
departments:
Tax Assessor/Collector 3
District Attorneys 20
District Courts 30
Information Technology 41
Commissioners Court 74
Organization Development 86
Step and Grade Schedules
Sheriff's proposal for consolidation 94
Proposal for moving up Grades 12 & 13 118
Non-Departmental 124
Adjourned 131
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the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call to order this workshop
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. It was posted
for this date and time, Wednesday, July the 19th, at 1:30 p.m.
We've got a number of folks here that are on their individual
budgets. We got some general items that, in deference to the
folks that are here, we may want to start at the bottom and
work up so that we can get that resolved. I would note for
members of the Court, because of a conflict on the Tax
Assessor's schedule, who was originally scheduled to be on, I
believe, the 28th, because of a conflict there, we're going to
put them on this afternoon's agenda. I assume nobody on the
Court has a problem with that? Why don't we just work from
the bottom up and go with the Tax Assessor at this point.
(Cell phone rang in the courtroom.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody I know?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 25 bucks.
JUDGE TINLEY: Tab 14. Okay. Ms. Rector?
MS. RECTOR: Yes, sir. Where would you like to
~ begin?
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JUDGE TINLEY: How about with 10-499?
MS. RECTOR: All right. How about 499-206, Bonds
and Insurance?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Okay. That was one I had left blank,
'cause I had been working with my insurance company because of
the --
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. RECTOR: -- change in position and seeing what
was going to be required, and the only thing for this upcoming
year is the public official bond of $375.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's all?
MS. RECTOR: Everything else is transferable.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Everything that's been paid up through
my four-year and my two-year bonds will all be transferable
over to Diane.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Except for the public official, which
they'll have to rewrite that bond at $375.
JUDGE TINLEY: $375?
MS. RECTOR: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. As a matter of general
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interest, when it comes to these bonds, some of those are
every two years, and --
MS. RECTOR: Or every four.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- different types, and --
MS. RECTOR: Every year, yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- they kind of change around.
MS. RECTOR: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else do you have for us?
MS. RECTOR: I did notice that on Employee Training,
that your recommended was $500 less than what I had requested.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct.
MS. RECTOR: Which was what I had for last year, and
due to the fact I am leaving, I think some of -- of the people
that are going to be changed around are going to need some
additional training, and I would like to see that line item
stay at 15.
JUDGE TINLEY: Restored?
MS. RECTOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to explain that
a little bit in detail?
MS. RECTOR: The person coming in from the Ingram
office is going to be stepping into one of the positions.
Since she's been in Ingram, she's probably going to need a
little further training and probably some classes with some of
the tax information to kind of refresh her. She's been more
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on the motor vehicle side than she's been on the tax side.
And I would like to see that money stay there for any
additional training that Diane may think possibly needs to be
done for the employees.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's your call, not mine,
but why? We like her a lot. Why is she coming back to the
courthouse?
MS. RECTOR: Well, because she has agreed to do it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Yeah. And I think it'll be -- I know
everybody out there's going to miss her, but the replacement
is going to be just as good.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That --
MS. RECTOR: We're going to make a good transition.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That office is one of the
good examples of good, efficient government. People like
that.
MS. RECTOR: They do. They really do. It has
worked out very, very well. Okay, let's see what else we had
here. I think I had seen -- I think, also, on 420, which is
Telephone --
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. RECTOR: -- recommended, I had requested 5,500.
Your recommendation was 3,500. I would like to see that at
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3,700. When I average out what we're spending monthly on the
telephone bill, that I think that -- that's going to be a
little short. You had recommended 35. I'd like to see 37
instead of 55.
JUDGE TINLEY: In amortizing that, it comes out to
about 3,100. Is there some additional telephone service that
you -- you put in place that --
MS. RECTOR: There is one addition in this -- well,
it happened this year. I had to buy a new fax machine, and
since that is on a phone line, they are charging me .022 --
two cents per print, which is going to go against the
telephone bill. So, that's something new.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On cell phones, or other phones
for that matter -- I hate to bring this up again with Rusty in
the room, 'cause he got mad last time I brought it up. John,
where's technology on getting us off this and using more of
the -- with broadband -- is that the right terminology?
MR. TROLINGER: As replacement for cell phones? I
haven't explored that --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or land lines.
MR. TROLINGER: Only thing I've explored is, the
Sheriff is consolidating the contracts, and he's done a very
good job at negotiating with Five Star Wireless. I think if
anything's not consolidated with cell phones, it's the
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There are going to be two items
on the agenda for next Commissioners Court meeting about
phones.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't hear you, Sheriff.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next agenda, it will be on.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's already handed in there
that there will be items on the next agenda, two separate
ones, about cell phone service and cell phones.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your investigation or your
work you're doing on that, would that be just for cell phones
in the Sheriff's Department, or would it be for cell phones in
the entire county system?
j SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cell phones for the Sheriff's
Department.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe perhaps we should look
at cell phones for the entire county system.
MR. TROLINGER: Well, I did look into a new company
that's moving into the area, and basically provides coverage
out just past Ingram, I think out west about a mile past
Ingram and through the core of Kerrville. It's basically a
new company with one of those new wireless licenses that were
just recently distributed, I think, 2003.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not --
MR. TROLINGER: They built out their system.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- not interested in
changing companies. I think I'm suggesting the economies of
scale by putting all of the cell phone utilization under one
contract.
MR. TROLINGER: Right. Well, the reason I mention
that is, it's about half the cost of conventional cell phone
service, if it's just required inside the city and no farther
past Ingram going west.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Barbara -- I'm sorry, Paula, do
you use Five Star?
MS. RECTOR: No, I have my own cell phone that I pay
for. My office does not have a cell phone.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I mean your office. What do
they use?
MS. RECTOR: We don't have cell phones.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Don't have cell phones; that was
all regular. Okay.
MS. RECTOR: That's regular telephone.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't want you getting any.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you look at the --
MS. RECTOR: I like that idea.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you look at the backup on
that agenda item, you see exactly what it would cost to have
the entire county also to go to it. It's not figured directly
in it, but it's under the new business type. And what I'm
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about $200 a month on cell phones alone, and it's a new
business system that Five Star has.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, might it be cheaper -- I
don't know. I'm looking to you for information on phones. It
just seems that -- personally, I presume they're doing it at
the courthouse, and everybody else too; phone companies are --
are making up their losses elsewhere on business customers who
need hard lines. And I suspect they're doing it -- we're
classified as a business customer. You know, phones are going
to be a huge portion of our budget. Already are a huge
portion of our budget. But is there anything we can do to --
with technology to lower that cost? Whether it's go into more
cell phones or go into broadband, something -- I know we had a
bad experience the first time we tried to make a switch
because of the quality, and we clearly should have some
regular hard lines. I'm not saying we should get rid of all
of them, but we can reduce it, certainly. Seems like the way
the future's going.
MR. TROLINGER: With cell phones, I compared Sprint
and Five Star. They were roughly equivalent, and with what
the Sheriff's negotiated, it's the best deal -- the best
coverage for the county overall. For the -- for the
technology side, if we're going to talk about Internet phones,
eventually, yes, it will be there, and we could use
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Internet-based services versus hard-wired services. But
it's --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not there yet?
MR. TROLINGER: As we found out, it's not there yet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What accounts for the
$15,000 increase in deputy salaries?
MS. RECTOR: Let me get there. The position
schedule from last year, I think what I had figured is I've
got just one employee that is due a longevity, and then I had
merit for two other employees, plus the COLA that I had
figured in, and I had just figured two and a half.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: COLA is part of it?
MS. RECTOR: Yeah. That's just my proposed --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Should be over four, so
part of the COLA's in there.
MS. RECTOR: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Okay. There's telephone, okay. Also,
Lease Copier, on 461, I had requested 3,700, which is my
actual contract for my two copy machines, one in my Ingram
office, one in this office here. And he -- the recommended
was 3,200. And in refiguring those contracts, I think 3,600
will cover the contracts, not 37. 'Cause I have two copiers
25 I that's under contract.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I'm having a problem. If we
run a month behind, which is the way I calculate and amortize
these things, then 1,400 is -- is six month's worth --
actually, this is the seventh printout. But if we run a month
I behind --
MS. RECTOR: It also depends on how many copies are
made, both in my Ingram office and here in this office. The
amount of copies -- you have so many that are included in one
locked-in price, and then you're charged for each additional
copy after that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You've got one of those where,
at the end of the trail, they hit you in the rear flank with a
big, fat bill, huh?
MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Yeah. So I'd like to keep a little --
a little extra in there just in case we -- if we have a large
volume of copies that we have to make, that it's going to --
it's going to cover it, 'cause it all comes out on the same
bill. Are we talking about Capital Outlay?
JUDGE TINLEY: You can talk about it. I'm not sure
we're going to make any decision today, but --
MS. RECTOR: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I.T. has recommended 4,600.
25 ~ MS. RECTOR: Right. And in my backup, --
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JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. RECTOR: -- if you'll look at my backup, I had
asked for 11 new chairs. The chairs in my office are
terrible. They're falling apart. We've had some of them just
completely fall apart with the employee sitting in them. The
chairs that I have are in really bad shape. There's a lot of
them that have been thrown to the back because the -- the
backs fall off of them or they're just -- they're old.
JUDGE TINLEY: You don't allow any J.P.'s to come in
and sit in them, do you?
MS. RECTOR: Well, I could. So, I would like for
you all to consider allowing the purchase of some new chairs
for the office, outside of what John has recommended for
computers.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: And I think that was everything we had
as far as differences.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. RECTOR: And I think one thing I would like to
add, we had a visit this morning from the director of TexDOT
out of our regional office in San Antonio; brought us some new
information about what's coming to us from the state level
beginning September 1st. All exempt plates, personalized
plates, special plates, D.V. plates, any military plates, they
were all handled at the state level. The person would come to
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our office, we give them an application. They'd fill it out,
they'd send their money to Austin. Austin will process the
application, send the plates to us. They would come in and
pick them up. We're going to be doing all of it. We're going
to be handling the processing of all the plates through our
office, which means from the application to handling the fees
to ordering the actual plate and issuing the plate and
collecting the money on our end. So, that is going to be some
additional workload.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Any additional revenue?
MS. RECTOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is it significant?
MS. RECTOR: Not really. It's going to be $1.90 to
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that enough to hire a
different -- an additional clerk, or pay for a clerk?
MS. RECTOR: In my office?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
MS. RECTOR: Possibly.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't hire one.
MS. RECTOR: Well, and that's -- well, and another
thing I wanted to mention also, that TexDOT keeps track of all
the transactions that we do per year, and they determine how
many workstations and how many bodies you should actually have
doing the processing, and they're saying 8,000 transactions
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per clerk. Mine are doing well over 10,000 now, and they're
recommending another workstation. But if I don't have a body
to put in that workstation, I -- there's no point in TexDOT
even considering bringing me another workstation.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: More unfunded stuff from
the state. Kind of interesting; I read in the newspaper today
that the new driver's license requirements --
MS. RECTOR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- are going to cost more
than $100, and you're not going to be able to do it by mail;
you're going to have to go over to D.P.S. and stand in line.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you be also taking
renewals on the special plates?
MS. RECTOR: Yes, we'll handle all the renewals.
Everything from the state level is coming to the county level.
We'll have to maintain a stock of all of those different kinds
of special plates. Not personalized, but just like you see
with the horny toad on it or the deer, or -- and there's 100
different types of special plates, and we have a lot of folks
in Kerr County that really like those special plates. So, we
see a lot of additional workload coming in, plus we're -- we
started doing Internet renewals for vehicle registration.
That is also taking a person's time every day, processing
those renewals. Plus the banking end of it, it all comes out
separate on the banking; separate reports that have to be
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processed to the state. This is going to do the same thing.
All these exempt plates and personalized plates will all be
handled with a special report, different type of funding to
the state is how we transmit our money. So, it's going to
really increase the workload. Plus --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Paula? Paula, what would
happen if you were to say, "Thank you, but no thank you, we're
not interested"?
MS. RECTOR: In processing those?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any of that stuff.
MS. RECTOR: No, the last legislative session handed
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay.
MS. RECTOR: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I understand that.
That's -- as long as --
MS. RECTOR: And I think that was House Bill
152.0412 -- oh, no, that's standard presumptive value.
There's another one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, there's another one?
MS. RECTOR: Oh, yeah. Listen to this one. You
guys are going to love this.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't get started, please.
MS. RECTOR: That House Bill I just mentioned is
25 ~ the -- a standard presumptive value of the sale of a motor
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vehicle. Any transaction between individuals -- this does not
have anything to do with dealers. They sell a vehicle to
another individual; they come into the office. TexDOT is
going to provide us with blue books. We're going to
physically have to go to the blue book, look up the retail
price of that vehicle. They will pay -- we have to calculate
80 percent of that retail price. It has nothing to do with
what it was sold for and what they put on that piece of paper.
Or they can go to a certified licensed dealer for an
appraisal, which is going to cost them $100. So, that's
another thing that we see a lot of unhappy taxpayers coming in
when we have to say, "Sorry, you bought this vehicle for
$5,000, but the blue book says it's worth $8,000, so we have
to charge you tax on that amount." So, that's going to be
another additional thing that's --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's all vehicles,
including big RV's and everything else?
MS. RECTOR: Mm-hmm. They're starting with just
passenger cars and light -- light trucks, pickups, and then
we're going to have to go into the larger vehicles. But the
State is not ready at this time to provide us with a blue book
on those, or we'd have blue books for every type of vehicle on
the road. But it's coming. It's coming. Those people will
have to go get an appraisal. But as far as the other -- just
sales between individuals, we will be looking that price up.
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We will be explaining that to them, that it's no longer what
they put on that piece of paper is what we tax them on.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How thoughtful of the State
not to dump it on you all at once.
MS. RECTOR: They tried it last session and we shot
it down, but it -- it got through this last time. So -- but
just -- in this calendar year, versus last calendar year of
January 1 through December 31st, just vehicle transactions,
vehicle registrations, we processed 2,254 more than we did
last year. That's just renewals; that's not titles. We've
done 1,290 transactions within six months of this year versus
six months -- the last six months of last year, just on
titles. So, when you add titles and registrations together,
you're looking at over 4,000 transactions more than we had
last year. So, we're growing, and it's showing in my office.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Paula, the workstations
over on your title and registration side, are -- are they
linked into the internet?
MS. RECTOR: No. That's all TexDOT equipment.
That's all supplied by the State.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Blue book is on the
internet.
MS. RECTOR: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: May be easier to look it up
in a paper book; I don't know.
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MS. RECTOR: Well, but then each clerk would have to
get out of the TexDOT and go into the internet, and --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It probably wouldn't work.
MR. TROLINGER: The best I could do there is, on the
Odyssey budget, we provided a public computer in place of the
terminal, so now Paula's got a computer there that does have
internet access.
MS. RECTOR: Well, but -- Nell's got internet on
hers, but then that would shift every customer coming in with
a title transaction having to go to Nell and say, "Okay, would
you look this up?"
MR. TROLINGER: Well, I was thinking more
self-service for the public. You'd have to send them over to
the internet.
MS. RECTOR: Sounds easy, but no.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Paula, one quick question.
You budgeted downward on -- on your postage. Does that have
anything to do with voter registration?
MS. RECTOR: Yes. That's because we're in the-off
year of mass mailout, so that affects the postage, and I've
taken that out of office supply also.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thanks.
MS. RECTOR: That's just an every-other-year thing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else?
MS. RECTOR: Anything else?
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you.
MS. RECTOR: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come up one more notch
to the District Attorneys. I see we have one here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab is that?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 8.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Yes. It is now your job,
Mr. Curry, to put everyone in a nice, happy frame of mind.
MR. CURRY: Yeah. Well, the Judge said he'd prefer
to go before me.
JUDGE ABLES: Just kidding.
JUDGE TINLEY: I understand why he might have said
JUDGE ABLES: Could get you in a bad mood.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, let me ask you if I'm
reading this right. The budget we're under today is 250,000,
and you're going to 427,000? Am I on the wrong page?
MR. CURRY: I -- I'm not sure about the -- that's
probably right. 400 --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what you see,
Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, that's what I see..
COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	We may be	here for	a while.
COMMISSIONER	NICHOLSON:	What --	is there	-- that's
a large percentage gain. Is something going on?
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MR. CURRY: It's the -- of course, the personnel
issue. The main items that we're asking there for is the --
asking for an assistant District Attorney and an investigator,
and that's, I think, the bulk of the -- the difference. And,
of course, those carry all the expenses that go along with
the -- with the positions, but that's the primary -- just --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How does your level of
activity compare with 198th or other -- other District
Attorneys?
MR. CURRY: Well, you know, I always hate to get out
statistics. I think if you look around the state, from what
I've seen, we're -- put it this way. My colleagues ask how
many assistants we have, and I say one. And we've had that
for 20 years, and they kind of say, "You're kidding," you
know, one of those kind of deals. We are to the point -- I
like to -- I refer in my own mind, at least, about four or
five years ago, it seems like -- and I don't know what the
magic figure was, we sort of hit a saturation, it seemed to
me. We were able to function, and then it just got to a
point, particularly in this county, we just couldn't keep up
with it effectively. And it hasn't done anything but expand
since then, and we're just simply falling behind and behind.
Our trial dockets are three and four pages long. The pretrial
dockets are eight to ten pages long. And it's just a matter
of -- I'm talking about in this county -- not being able to
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come up for air. And I think we've just grown; it's just
caught up with us. Essentially, we've had the -- the
two-lawyer system in our office -- well, the entire time I've
been there, basically. We've had the luxury of having an
assistant under the task force grant for so long. Now the
task force is gone, so at this point, she is a regular
assistant, but the manpower has stayed the same. I used to
have an investigator -- Rusty's not listening -- Buddy
Hierholzer, who was part-time. He actually worked about 80 '
hours a week, and that was great. Buddy, for health reasons,
had to resign, and I haven't had one since. And that just
makes a tremendous difference in being able to go out in these
law enforcement areas, put these cases together and do a lot
of the groundwork. That -- that's the problem. We're just
trying to get back to ground zero with these cases.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce, if you had the additional
investigator -- I almost hate to ask this question -- could
you get them through the courts? I mean, what I hear is-that
the courts are backed up, so adding -- unless you add
something at the 216th court level, adding more D.A.'s at your
level really doesn't do any good.
MR. CURRY: That's a ticklish question. You know,
it's hard to know. All I can say is five years ago, we were
able to do that, and I think it's the processing as much as
anything else. We get these cases -- you know, like, we're
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indicting I don't even know how many a month. Of course, it
varies, but 50 to 75 cases a month throughout the district.
New cases coming on board, and just physically taking those
cases and working them up, so to speak; I'm not talking about
just for Grand Jury, but actually for pretrial and all that,
is just a tremendous amount. And an investigator can do that,
a large amount of that, at least. Which we don't have anybody
doing it now except us, and that puts us -- to get kind of
technical, you get into this 404 (b) and the 37.07 notice
requirements. And it's just -- it's just a bit much when you
got that kind of a docket running when you don't have somebody
to help you.
'~ Would processing get those cases moved? I think so.
Of course, it's got to be through plea negotiations. If -- if
all of them get tried, we're sunk. I mean, obviously, we
don't have enough judges and prosecutors and courtrooms and
everything to do that. But as to processing the cases, my
hope would be that we can get back to that level where we
could maintain. Now, can I articulate to you why that
happens? I can't articulate to myself why that happens, but
it does. It seems like when we -- when we could process the
cases rapidly and efficiently, we -- we didn't seem to have
I
this kind of a problem. I don't know if the Judge would agree
or not, but in my mind, four or five years ago, we were in a
lot better shape with this docket, and I think it's just
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numbers. That's been the increase.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bruce, what's the percentage
~ of caseload or docket that is Kerr County versus the rest of
the district?
MR. CURRY: Oh, I'm sorry, I don't know exactly.
Probably 50 percent. I would say 50, maybe a little more.
About 50.
JUDGE TINLEY: The allocation which you've made to
the various counties, that's based on a population
determination?
MR. CURRY: I believe Tommy Tomlinson did those. I
didn't do those figures, but I believe that's the way it's
based, population.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought Bandera was in the
216th. Isn't Bandera County --
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Bottom one. You're on the
wrong page.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, thank you.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Bottom line here is, we
would be going from 90,000 -- 89,000 to 162,000; is that
correct?
MR. CURRY: Kerr County's portion. I don't have
that figure.
JUDGE TINLEY: 103 of -- of this current year's
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budget is the 41 percent.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The assistants, then, would
be going from one to two?
MR. CURRY: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And how many are under the
secretary category?
MR. CURRY: We have three secretaries right now, and
I'm not asking for an additional secretary. We'll see how
that works, but we --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The investigator's a new
~ position?
MR. CURRY: That would be a new position.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question and a
comment. Where, Bruce, are you going to put these people?
You've been in that closet for 20 years.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Juvenile Detention Facility
with the library.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There you go.
MR. CURRY: Actually, I have a location which goes
to this storage issue. There is another office back there
that I have half finished out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. CURRY: And it's just waiting to be done, and
the investigator will just be there in our office, but I
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assume is going to be traveling a lot. That's going to be the
main thing. There has been some question -- we've talked
about it, and I think Kendall County would be agreeable to it,
to put an assistant housed in the Kendall County Courthouse.
They got that third floor. And my problem is, if that became
an alternative, who to get, you know, frankly.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. CURRY: It would need to be somebody probably
that lived in that area, which would be fine, but that's
another issue. That's a possibility.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, and my comment is,
historically, this guy has come before the Commissioners Court
a few times, and hardly ever asked for anything. And on
occasions, he's asked for something, and a few times we've
said no, and he says, "Okay, thanks," and walks out. You
know, he's just really operated in a conservative manner all
these many, many years, and there's not much -- not much-more
than a closet. I don't see how you do that. But I think we
need to really focus on this thing, because this is one of the
-- one of the cogs in the wheel that makes the whole system
work.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would you be amenable to
moving your operation if we provided other facilities?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can answer that for him.
25 ~ MR. CURRY: If it -- if we needed to, yeah.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just looking ahead.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want to run our new library?
(Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Would Ms. Brown be amenable to that?
MR. CURRY: To -- I'm not going to speak for her.
What was the question?
JUDGE TINLEY: I thought I'd catch you in a trap
here, but --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we would be picking up,
according to your allocation, about 41.2 percent of your
entire budget; is that correct? No?
MR. CURRY: That sounds right. Again, I don't have.
those figures.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I was reading.
MR. CURRY: I've always thought of it as 50 percent,
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which, if I'm doing my math
correctly, translates into a modest increase.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you talked to the other
counties? Are they agreeable to additional staff?
MR. CURRY: So far as I know. I know Kendall County
-- I've been told Kendall county is. I've not really spoken
to the others. Those are smaller portions, of course.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can just ask Judge Ables a
quick question, would this help from your standpoint of
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getting cases through courts, in addition -- I mean,
obviously, it'll help Bruce's workload. What's it do to your
workload?
JUDGE ABLES: We're hoping to get some help from the
Legislature, some money back in our retired judge budget.
When this thing started getting out of control was kind of the
time that we got cut; we couldn't use Murray -- Charlie
Sherrill or Murray Jordan very much. There was a time that I
could be trying a case, I could have Charlie trying a case in
Kendall County and Murry trying another one here, and Bruce
might get a special prosecutor, and we were really juggling
balls trying to keep as many cases going as we could. And
then we got our retired judge money gutted. But we went and
met with the chairman of the Appropriations Committee in
Waxahachie in Ellis County, and he's going to try to rally to
get some more money back into that, so if we -- if we got that
money again and Bruce could get this other assistant, we may
be able to keep, you know, two or three or four trials going
at one time to try to stay up. It is humanly impossible to
stay up any more. Bandera and Boerne are exploding. The
population's through the roof. And used to be that our -- our
docket here was staggering, but now those two dockets are --
are becoming staggering. And Fredericksburg's managed it, but
Bandera and Boerne, it's really not that manageable. They
know they need some help in Kendall County, and that's the
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But I -- all I can say is, I think Bruce and Kay and
Jane and Lucy have kind of done miraculous things to keep it
going, and to not just get completely flooded. I'm amazed how
well it's worked. He's got a great staff. They talk to these
attorneys, they work these deals like this, and they try and
keep it going, but we're just about at the end of our rope.
And we've got some other things we've been talking about, like
creating a new district court and maybe -- 'cause we're up to
126,000 population for four counties, and generally 50,000 per
district court is the rule of thumb, and so we're twice that.
So, we're trying to -- we're trying to come up with what we
can. But if he has another prosecutor, that person will have
their plate completely full immediately. They got all the
cases they want. And if they have an investigator, they can
really do a lot more quality work. Instead of having to talk
to every witness and go look at every crime scene and
investigate it, the investigator can put the case together for
them. So, Bruce, like you say, never asks for anything. I
don't know how he's done it. He's an incredible prosecutor.
I think he needs help.
MR. CURRY: And I didn't buy his lunch today.
(Laughter.)
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He just got threatened by Kay.
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JUDGE TINLEY: But the results may depend upon lunch
tomorrow, right?
JUDGE ABLES: It's true.
MR. CURRY: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions on any of these other
numbers that are plugged in here?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: Your main issue is staffing, right?
MR. CURRY: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the whole enchilada? Okay.
Any more questions of Mr. Curry?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
MR. CURRY: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
MR. CURRY: Thank you very much.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's back up one notch to -- to
District Courts.
JUDGE ABLES: Judge Prohl is really sorry he
couldn't be here today, but he's got a conflict, and I've got
the pleasure of coming to see you. I think the budget's
pretty close to last year. The significant change on the
216th is a dramatic increase the court-appointed attorney's
fees, which kind of ties into what I'm saying with the -- with
the reason that -- that Bruce is working so hard, is he's
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defendants, who are all getting ready for trial themselves.
It's a pretty dramatic job. Looks like -- we're projecting
we'll spend $160,000 for court-appointed attorneys fees in the
216th, and we only had budgeted last year 105, so that's a big
jump in mine.
In Karl's, he's pretty much on budget. We think
there might be a little change in that the task force has gone
away, and we used to do all the drug cases -- by mandate, we
had to do those in the 216th. And you may see a little bit of
that evening out, because we don't have to do those 216th task
force cases any more, so that may change a little bit. Karl
and I have really been trying to help each other. When I do
criminal pretrials tomorrow, you know, we'll have hundreds of
people up there. And Karl rearranged his schedule, and he's
going to come in and help me, 'cause we've been going till
late at night on these things. We're trying to really help
each other; trying to get some people out of jail, Rusty.
Where's Rusty? That's the significant thing. The salaries, I
think, all have to do with that COLA issue. There's one right
at the top, District Judges County Supplement, that we had not
had a -- a pay raise since 1997, the District Judges, and so
we got one at the last legislative session, and it took us to
a base line of 125.
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The -- the numbers we were working off of that we
were trying to get the Legislature to buy into was, if we had
received a 4.5 percent COLA from 1997, based on our salary of
101, that would have been 138,000. The Legislature give us a
base line of 125, but then authorized us that we could get a
supplement from the counties for the difference between the
125 and the 138,9 or whatever it was. We were -- we had
always received a Juvenile Board payment, and there had been
an opinion -- or there had been a position by the
Comptroller's office that that's all we could get; we couldn't
get any more than that. Then the A.G. issued an opinion two
months ago that said no, that's not right; that we could
get -- in addition to the Juvenile Board allotment, that we
could get up to that 138,9, and so Karl and I had requested
that supplement from the County, and it's 2,550. And we
divided equally; we didn't do it by population. We took our
counties, his five and my four, and worked it out where it
would be equal. But that's a little different. That's not a
COLA. There was nothing, I guess, to apply the COLA to. But
we stuck that in our budget, and that's -- we're -- if y'all
agree to do it, we'd appreciate it. I think the rest of the
things are about the same.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, on that, if we give a
COLA, y'all do or don't get it?
JUDGE ABLES: We don't get it. We haven't -- we
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have parameters on how much we can get. Now, if you were to
give us a supplement of $1,000, and then next year give us a
4 percent COLA and we're still underneath the cap that they
put us under, then yeah, we could get it. But we're always --
I have to fill out an affidavit and send it to the
Comptroller's office and tell them what I make from every
source to make sure that it doesn't exceed a certain amount,
which is based on what a Court of Appeals judge makes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, did I understand you
correctly that the 2,550 of the supplement will be in your
request to the other three counties as well?
JUDGE ABLES: Yes. They've all approved it, and
Karl's other counties have approved it.
JUDGE TINLEY: And that's divvied up by counties,
not by population or case load?
JUDGE ABLES: That's correct. That's right.
JUDGE TINLEY: That means our share of it,
population-wise, is really the short share.
JUDGE ABLES: That's right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, I'd like to look at
the salary categories, 105, 106, and 108, 109.
JUDGE ABLES: Okay.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many employees are in
each of those four categories?
25 ~ JUDGE ABLES: All the employees are here. Well,
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Mason County that's on a contract basis to do work in Mason
and Brady a lot, and -- and doesn't travel over here very
much. All of my people live here. My court reporter, the
court coordinator, the deputy court coordinator, and the
receptionist all work out of Kerr County.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So, court
coordinator line item is two people; is that right?
JUDGE ABLES: Court coordinator is one. Well, did
you put Mary Frances -- I think it's just --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I just got court
coordinator, 78,249.
JUDGE ABLES
That's one person, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Then I've got court
reporter, 46 -- 48,661. How many people is that?
JUDGE ABLES: That's one person.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One person?
JUDGE ABLES: All of these are your portion, I
assume, of four counties.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, that's kind of -- our
portion of one person is $48,000?
MR. TOMLINSON: That's right.
JUDGE ABLES: Right, of the court reporter.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
JUDGE ABLES: Yeah. Court reporter makes -- she's
got a statute that sets the raises she's getting for 18 years:
I think she's gone from, like, 76 through the 18 years up to
close to 100,000.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are these people who are on
our payroll, or are they contractors?
JUDGE ABLES: They're on the payroll.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Receptionist salary. Is
that one person?
JUDGE ABLES: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is the court -- excuse me,
the coordinator's position, that's supplemented by the state,
14 I is it not?
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JUDGE ABLES: Becky gets a supplement because I'm
the administrative judge for west Texas, and if I were to lose
that position, she would not get that supplement. But she
gets a supplement because of that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The two court coordinators'
compensation is -- is much larger than the District Clerk's
compensation, and without being real familiar with the duties,
it would appear that there might be some redundancy, that they
do more or less the same kind of things. Can you -- can you
help me with that?
JUDGE ABLES: I don't think Linda and Becky do any
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I don't think there's anything they do that
the other one does. Becky's pretty much scheduling court for
-- well, she actually schedules court for eight counties out
of this office here. And it is nonstop, constant talking to
attorneys and scheduling matters and doing all the clerical
work pretty much for Karl and I. But I'm not sure there's
that much Linda does that Becky does, and much that Becky does
that Linda does.
MS. DECKER: No, that's right. We're mainly the --
the records clerk of the court and do the issuing, and -- and
they do the scheduling.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, they're -- the
organization configuration is not unique. If we looked at
other district courts in east Texas counties, we'd see
something similar to that?
JUDGE ABLES: You're going to see some counties that
will have a -- a deputy clerk that comes in and kind of
coordinates. San Antonio's got kind of a weird system where
they've -- the person doesn't really act as a clerk, but yet
they're under the clerk's budget, and they really work for the
court. But they're still in the District Clerk's office, and
-- but by and large, most of the courts have the coordinator,
which is created by statute.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where do you see us going on
court-appointed attorneys? Is it more -- I mean, this year
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has been a horrible year. We're budgeting a bunch more for
next year. I guess that last year was a good year, so we got
a little excited that we weren't going to spend so much. Is
~, this going to be an ongoing issue? More and more money going
into that line item because of indigent defense?
JUDGE ABLES: It's never gone -- in the 18 years
I've been doing this, it's never gone down. The criminal
docket here has grown significantly every year in felony
cases, and there's one in a thousand where they can qualify to
represent themselves. And nearly everybody is unable to
afford an attorney, but they -- I'll make them go out and get
quotes and talk to attorneys, but they don't have the
wherewithal to pay for an attorney, and if I don't appoint an
attorney for them, it's going to be reversed and come back,
and we're going to try it again. Now, we -- Rusty and I,
we've had workshops and talked about the fact that the quicker
you turn cases, the less time an attorney can put into a file.
If you can -- if you can push it really quick, it may be you
can cut down on fees. But, you know, I say this with -- I'm a
lawyer, and I love lawyers, but lawyers can procrastinate.
Sometimes, you know, they will wait until the very last
second, and they really haven't put the time into it if the
case is really going to be going to trial anyway. And so I'm
not sure if it helps that much to say that we try them
quickly, 'cause they're going to gear up and bill 10 hours,
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and they got to go work tomorrow. If it's next month, they
might work an hour and wait and get their 10 hours in a month
from now. So, I'm not sure. Now, the quicker we move cases,
the more fines we can assess. It's possible that we, you
know, will get that. We make -- everybody that's
court-appointed who gets probation is supposed to pay it back
as part of their payment plan. But it's difficult to send
people to the penitentiary for nonpayment if they have an
inability to pay. It's difficult to send them off, and we
might have to keep them here on a work program, which costs
the County more money, and you use -- it's a horrible cycle,
in answer to your question. It's grim about that, that cost
of court-appointed attorneys. I don't think there's a really
good solution for it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And there's not much -- I mean,
other than probation, we can't go back to try to collect this
~ money?
JUDGE ABLES: That's about it. We did -- we thought
we could go back and collect from them when they're on parole,
and we recently got an opinion that said that we can't do
that, and so that's making it more difficult. There's -- we
kicked around having a -- a public defender's office. When
you get to a certain population, sometimes you can do that. I
don't think we're quite there yet, but it always -- we need to
constantly kind of keep that in the back of our mind, that we
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might go to a public defender's office. But you have to staff
that with a lot of people, because you'll get conflicts, and
they need to represent -- you know, they might have 300 people
they're representing, and so all of a sudden, you get four
people. Well, Bruce just told you what it costs to get one.
Boom, we're past that $160,000 like that with a public
defender's office. So, we'll look at it, but that may not be
your answer either.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE ABLES: Wish I had a better answer for you,
I Jonathan.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, back to the salaries
~ again.
JUDGE ABLES: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In both 216th and 198th,
court coordinator's salary is increasing by 10 and a half
percent. Is -- is the employee getting the 10 and a half
percent increase, or is Kerr County's share of that budget
going up disproportionately?
JUDGE ABLES: I thought we had just built in 4.2 for
~ everybody.
MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's pretty -- are you sure
of your amounts?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes.
MR. TOMLINSON: My calculation was around 5 percent.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My math's bad, I'm sorry.
JUDGE ABLES: Going from 46,3 to 48,6, it would be
around 5 percent, I think.
~ COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wasn't very good in math
when we were at Baylor either, Tommy.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the first mistake I've
seen you make this year. Mark it down.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make a
comment. Steve, I admire you for all the things you do in our
community.
JUDGE ABLES: Thanks.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But my favorite thing that
you do, you're the voice of Antler Stadium. Tivy fight never
dies.
JUDGE ABLES: Hey, I talked to the coaches the other
day, and they say we're going to sneak up with some people
this year. We've got some good kids. This is going to be a
good year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whew, I'm excited.
JUDGE ABLES: Hey, thanks for your support.
Appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Information Technology.
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That's under --
MR. TROLINGER: I have a single page for each of
you, please.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four, I believe.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: You want to talk about your base
budget first, John?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. TROLINGER: What I'm seeing on base budget, the
only deviation that I -- that I received from you, Judge, was
the contract services at 10-408-553.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's why I've got a question mark
on that, John. And I --
MR. TROLINGER: The reason for --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- see where you're coming from.
MR. TROLINGER: The reason for no expenditures this
year is community service workers. We've had a very talented
one, actually, that did quite a bit of the technical work for
us. I'd expected to hire it out, to have Gazelle PC or
somebody like that in here. There may be some expenditure
from that contract services this year, but I'm not
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anticipating that right now, but next year, there will be
situations where I don't have that resource.
JUDGE TINLEY: You won't get that lucky?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, just get Rex to file a
new something against the guy and keep him -- keep him on.
MS. UECKER: There you go.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's wise, to
realize that those kind of people are not around all the time.
Is he still with you, or -- is this person still with you?
MR. TROLINGER: We have him 20 more hours.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to be chewing that up
before the end of this budget year.
MR. TROLINGER: I'm hoping to have him on-site any
I week now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good deal.
MR. TROLINGER: But, yes, I anticipate the community
service hours, he'll be at zero hours by the end of this
budget year on the existing --
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, you've made some
~I
I recommendations, too, with regard to some capital outlay
items, things of that nature, for various departments, and
I
that's been plugged into a lot of budgets. We just heard
about the Tax Assessor's 40 --
25 ~ MS. RECTOR: 4,606, I think, is what John had
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recommended. That was a bar code scanner, a new computer,
backup tapes.
', JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. And this list that you've
just furnished to us is a composite -- a current composite of
what those recommendations are over in the right-hand column?
MR. TROLINGER: Actually, this is -- this list that
I just provided is the software maintenance budget that we pay
Tyler Technologies each year.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. TROLINGER: I'm looking to consolidate that as
probably the largest piece of my budget this year. That's the
largest effort that I'm making this year on the budget, hoping
to get some efficiency and reduce the cost.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, let me catch up here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, his -- the things that he
is recommending for each department are built into the
department's budget, just like Paula's issue a few minutes
ago.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the way that most of them were
submitted to me. Now, I'm not sure whether he has a different
approach that he's thinking about taking. I know he's
mentioned it previously about consolidating it all under the
I.T. budget.
MR. TROLINGER: I would like to see it move that
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consider that. If, for instance, you had a -- you know, an
H.R. clerical person that -- that might be able to pitch in
on -- on something like that with your new H.R. department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd prefer to do what?
MR. TROLINGER: To consolidate the line items for
capital outlay, which is typically where the computers and
hardware come from for computer -- and operating equipment is
another line item, and in some cases, possibly the telephone,
to consolidate that. And what it would allow you to do is see
everything county-wide on one budget. Right now, it's spread
across the board, and it's very difficult to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pull it out of all the
departments, all the computer and related equipment and
telephone?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Out of each department, and
put it in the I.T. budget?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. What's the problem with
I that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, wouldn't that make Tommy's
life easier? Doesn't he take one phone bill and split it all
out manually?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I look at it as a philosophy
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A what?
MR. TOMLINSON: A philosophy issue.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How are we supposed to do this?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, how do you want to track the
cost for functions? In other words, do you want to know --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah.
MR. TOMLINSON: -- what it costs to run Linda
I
Uecker's department totally, all-inclusive? Or do you want to
pay part of her costs out and put on it Rex? So that's why I•
say I don't care. It's what the Court wants to get out of the
accounting system. That's my point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can -- historically,
the Commissioners Court has tried to watch everything Linda
Uecker has done through the budget, the line items. We want
to know where every penny's gone and every telephone system,
but I think that we probably need to get away from that. I
think that we need to move -- a philosophy change, paradigm
shift. Move everything under one, and don't worry about ,what
Linda does. That's what I think government needs to move to.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have an objection -- well, I
have one objection.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, he wants to fight. Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: And -- and it's a reporting issue.
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other words, they want -- from a reporting standpoint, they
want to see how much the public safety costs. And when you
look at our audit report, you'll see that -- that those
functions are segregated. And so -- so you report to the
public or to an investor what -- what each function costs when
you match against that function the revenues that are
collected for it. So, if you -- if you take part of the costs
of the function out, then -- then you're not reporting
all-inclusive costs for a function. That's -- I mean, that's
my objection. I don't -- I don't -- it may not be material,
but -- but it is -- I think it is an issue.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it -- I mean, the benefit to
doing what John's recommending is that you get economy of
scale. If we got one phone system contract, we get one
contract for all these services, and it also saves a lot of
time from each of these other -- we have one person doing it
one time, as opposed to every department negotiating their own
contracts all year long, so it should add some efficiency to
each of the departments. Could your issue still not be
addressed by just figuring out a -- let the Court figure out a
formula to break out that total budget back to the departments
from an accounting standpoint? I mean, it's just a matter of
figuring out, you know, okay, Linda Decker's is 2 percent of
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the total phone budget.
MR. TOMLINSON: That's sort of what we do already.
I mean, we -- we do that to some degree now. The exact amount
may not be there, but we -- we allocate costs based on --
mainly on the budget. How much -- in other words, how much do
we budget for telephone? We take -- take the total of the
telephone budget, and we apply that to a spreadsheet that says
my office is 2 percent of the total budget or the total cost,
and we just apply that to my cost.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can do it in reverse
I order.
MR. TOMLINSON: We're doing that to some degree
already.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Aren't we really talking
about two different things?
MR. TOMLINSON: Not really, no. Well I don't --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your allocation of expenses,
I understand that, and I understand your reason to want to do'
it, and I understand our reason for wanting to see it. But
aren't we really talking about him being able to consolidate
the acquisition of equipment and contracts and so forth?
We're really talking about two separate issues.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, not if we -- not if we put the
total cost in his budget.
MR. TROLINGER: Right. If the line item came over
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for capital outlay into the I.T. budget, then it would not
reflect the individual departments without some kind of change
on the Auditor's part. That's a very good point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we could change it. We
could put it all in your -- I mean, in your -- we deal with
you on it, and then once that number's fixed, it gets spread
out by the computer and distributed out among the departments.
MR. TOMLINSON: That wouldn't preclude him from --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Doing it all --
MR. TOMLINSON: -- negotiating a price.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- for the whole county.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of my thought.
JUDGE TINLEY: The acquisition costs is not the cost
of operations.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: If it's a capital item that we're
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it is, too, because -- because
we have to depreciate those assets, and the cost of the
depreciation gets charged against every department. So, our
system calculates depreciation on every asset every department
has, and in the financial statements, that -- that
depreciation cost is part of their -- part of our operating
I costs.
MR. TROLINGER: So, it makes a lot of sense, what
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Tommy's saying, and that was really going a step beyond to try
to take those line items. What I wanted to emphasize was that
the software maintenance budget is large; it's spread out
across the entire county. I wanted to give you one snapshot
picture of it. And I'd like to, as we go through the budget
workshops, talk about consolidating and making changes to
those. I found some places that we need to reduce and some
places that need to increase.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On this list you gave us?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. That's the one big
I number.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is this particular
I list?
MR. TROLINGER: What we pay for software
maintenance.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Software maintenance?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's operating costs, not
hardware?
MR. TROLINGER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Why is the Appraisal
District on there?
MR. TROLINGER: There -- they're listed because I
receive that from Software Group, and I wanted to show you the
entire county's outlay to Software Group.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're not paying it?
MR. TROLINGER: Each -- as it is right now, each of
these items where you see Central Appraisal District, County
Attorney's office, County Treasurer, et cetera, those are in
each of those budgets.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. I'm with you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what you're saying here is
that if we can consolidate -- do your recommendations, we'll
save about 4,000 a quarter? I mean, you're going from 32,000
a quarter to 28,700 a quarter.
MR. TROLINGER: My initial -- my initial take on it,
yes. I'm sure we'll get some input from the Sheriff on this
also. There are some -- there's some issues there. And also,
I'd like to bring to your attention, we've paid this software,
maintenance each and every year since -- as the system grew,
the maintenance costs grew. And what I'm seeing right now
with Odyssey is that the support required, where we have to
receive support for some of these products from Software
Group, is not necessarily required any longer, because Odyssey
allows the individual users to do much more of the maintenance
level tasks that Software used to do on the old system. So,
I'm looking at -- not only is this -- this is the projection
for 2007, but even more of these items may drop off. And,
conversely, some may -- some may reappear as some changes take
place at the Sheriff's Office with my -- I call him my right
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arm, the training officer there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Looking at the line on Kerr
County Treasurer, fifth one down, it says B.M.-slash-payroll.
What's B.M.?
MR. TROLINGER: Bank Manager is the name of the
product center.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Base Manager?
JUDGE TINLEY: Bank.
MR. TROLINGER: Bank.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bank Manager.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How does computer-aided
dispatch work? What does that do?
MR. TROLINGER: Maybe the Sheriff could -- could go
into that, 'cause it's brand-new, and something that he asked
for right away, probably the first week after I started.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick scenario, it cuts
down the time more than half to actually enter a call into the
computer system. It all draws automatically from other
databases, and once we get a call from one address, that
address is in the system. If we get another call from that
address, you click a button, it programs it in. You update
it, and it's just a -- a time-saving -- plus the information
it keeps and the reports we can run are ten times better than
what we've ever been able to. We're one of the few agencies
that didn't have it.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And the source of -- of
up until we installed this, the radio log is handwritten out.
Every radio dispatch is handwritten out by the dispatchers in
the center, and this is taking place. We have no more
handwritten logs; it's all computer-printed logs, so that's --
', it's something that should have been done ten years ago. I
just didn't --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does Kerrville Police.
Department use a similar --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know what company they
have, okay? This came with this to work with Odyssey, and it
draws information out of Odyssey and puts it in. And,
actually, we got it at no initial cost, because we are a test
site for them, okay? Because it is a new one, so the cost --
there wasn't any initial cost in doing it. I don't know what
company they have, but they do have computer-aided dispatch.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What do we do about
consolidating, like -- I mean, I'd personally like to see how
much the County is spending on computer maintenance on one
sheet, rather than trying to add them up. I think we get a
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much better handle. And, to me, it's -- I like a consolidated
version, and then it can be -- once the budget's finalized, it
can be attributed to each department on a monthly basis. And
I think, Tommy -- correct? It needs to be tracked by
department. But during the budget process, this is the number
that I'd rather see. It's somewhat meaningless to me to look
at each department individually.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Bottom line number.
MR. TROLINGER: I think it's a good first step.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that probably
phones, software maintenance, things that are easy to do. I
mean, some of the things like copier maintenance maybe down
the road will make sense, but right now we have so many
~~ different types of copier contracts and companies, I think
it
that would be a nightmare to try to consolidate that right
now. But down the road, that may be something -- another
i area.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trolinger, do you think that if
you have general oversight of computer equipment acquisition,
computer service, software acquisition, contracting
system-wide for those things, that it'll help you bring the
overall costs down?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Vis-a-vis each different department
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MR. TROLINGER: Inevitably. But it's been handled
down to a science. They know they've got an old computer that
needs to be replaced, and -- versus where each department was
bringing you that request. What I'm doing for you is just
showing you all in one place what's going on, and the software
maintenance being the largest. I'm not trying to necessarily
'~, take over the operation, but to present it.
JUDGE TINLEY: I understand that. But if you've got
the overall view of things -- and, for example, on the
telephone service and computer equipment and things like that;
with your knowledge of those subjects, and then once those
', things are put in place, they can be charged to the particular
~' departments; the service, the equipment, whatever it may be.
~ MR. TROLINGER: Makes good sense to do it that way.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to go back, Judge,
to the -- to the communications side of this equation.
Telephone. Where are we in terms of our existing system, by
your best estimation?
MR. TROLINGER: The courthouse phone system is
becoming a duct tape and baling wire situation.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're finally getting there,
John. We're finally getting to where we're supposed to be.
MR. TROLINGER: Curtis from Valor -- is it
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Windstream? I think they changed names. K.T.C.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this week. We don't
know what they'll be next week.
MR. TROLINGER: Curtis has started a survey to
evaluate here, and they've already looked at the Sheriff's
system at his request, to evaluate what we need to do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be -- would it be
ultimately your recommendation, if there's to be a system
change -- telephone upgrade, that we finally evolve to one
system for Kerr County, instead of multiple systems?
MR. TROLINGER: Last year I would have said yes, but
after learning about the functions at the Sheriff's Office, I
see it's less likely because of the emergency nature of -- the
24/7 nature of those phone lines.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about the Road and
Bridge component?
MR. TROLINGER: It's coming close. We've talked
about it. Probably not this year; maybe the year after. I
think they just signed another lease, or some type of
maintenance agreement. You did not?
MS. HARDIN: Up in October.
MR. TROLINGER: It's up in October, actually. So,
it is coming up this year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about the -- and that's one
25 ~ of the things that K.T.C. was going to look at -- I was going
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to have them look at, was Road and Bridge's, and evaluate
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that something we're
going to get back here pretty soon from K.T.C.? A proposal
during the budget preparation?
MR. ODOM: Who are you talking to?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anybody that wants to answer
the question.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. First off, let me answer
some of that. I brought it to this Court several months ago
about problems I had with the Sheriff's Office. Okay. The
Court asked Curtis -- he was here -- to figure up a
county-wide plan for purchasing only, 'cause there's so many
different options. We brought it back another time. The
Court asked Curtis to do it another way. Okay. I've been
waiting for that other way. We talked Curtis this morning.
He said since they keep changing the way they're doing it, or
want proposals, they didn't do it. I had a 25-minute period
this morning, between 8:00 and -- well, actually probably
closer to 10:00 to -- yeah, 9:30 -- a 25-minute period we
could not get incoming calls or make outgoing calls, 'cause
all our lines were tied up. It's back on your agenda again
next Monday to try and solve the Sheriff's Office problem.
I' I've got a serious problem. We've waited and waited for the
proposals. And that's why, if you look at that, you'll see a
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lot of those proposals. But I don't think they furnished the
one that the Court asked for, a county-wide. And I put it
back on as my original proposal, 'cause I just can't wait any
longer.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the reason that they
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They said they got too many
different ways that the Court wants to have them keep
refiguring it and redoing it, and they just lost it, what they
need to be doing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they don't want our
I business?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I don't think that's it.
Don't take it wrong.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what it sounds like.
What else could it mean?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what it means to me.
JUDGE TINLEY: They don't want to work for it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think they're just having
problems on a very direct -- and maybe that's where Trolinger
could help. I think they're having problems on a very direct,
one line of communication, "This is exactly what we want."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, what --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because there are several
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is -- what is our
option? What is -- see, this is a question for you. What is.
our option, Mr. Department Head?
MR. TROLINGER: The option at the Sheriff's Office,
MR. TROLINGER: For the Sheriff's Office --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's pretend that K.T.C.
doesn't want our business, which is what it sounds like to me.
What would we do?
MR. TROLINGER: We'd go to the local vendor in town.
I T.N.T. is one of them that I can think of.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a septic company.
MR. TROLINGER: I think it's -- I think their
slogan's, "From your rear to your ear." They do telephone
also. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh.
MR. TROLINGER: Anyway, that's former K.T.C. --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like our company, to
~ me .
MR. TROLINGER: And I'd have them come out and take
a look and evaluate the Sheriff's system again, because the
proposal from -- you know, from K.T.C. may be -- may be fine.
It's a Nortel phone switch, and just about any vendor in the
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they haven't come back
to do what we asked them to do. Sounds like they're not
planning on doing that. I think you need to find out
something from somebody.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The Sheriff's office he's
saying is different. The proposal I'm putting back on the
agenda -- or is back on the agenda is the same as the very
first proposal that I brought when we started having a
problem. It's either the five-year lease-purchase or the
five-year buy-out and gradually replace existing equipment
with the new updated equipment as it comes. And I honestly
believe that the five-year lease deal is the better way.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What caused your 30-minute
period -- what was tying up the lines?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Too many calls coming in, too
~ many going out. All our lines were used. I got to have the
capability of adding more lines.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talking about consolidating
things, see, this -- this is the kind of thing that the I.T.
guy ought to be dealing with. He ought to be in here making a
recommendation and saying, "The Sheriff's Department is not
functioning; we got to do this."
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess what -- I'm going
back to him. Maybe I'm overly simplistic. Couldn't you have
solved that -- incoming, obviously, you have to have the
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capacity. Outgoing, y'all have cell phones, or a bunch of you
have cell phones. Why don't you start switching to cell
phones? Start relieving some of the workload.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a lot of different
things in there, okay? One is, I have the capability of
recording calls on hard line. All right? A lot of our stuff
is recorded. Number two is, I have 31 cell phones, all right?
I'm very strict on limiting the number of minutes. You have a
cell phone contract in there too that will be on the next
agenda that will alleviate that. My minutes, if I go over the
number of minutes per month, okay -- all my 31 are one group.•
If you go over that number of minutes, we start paying a whole
lot more than the other. Now, a lot of them did. I went
around this morning and told people they had to get off the
phone, okay? It -- it's not 9-1-1 phone. Don't get me wrong.
It's -- if a call comes in on 9-1-1, that gets transferred on
the dedicated line that's just for that, but any of our other
business and any other calls that people don't call directly
on 9-1-1, our system -- we added six phone lines to it several
years ago, y'all did, when we upgraded it last time or did the
last contract renewal. And over the years -- you heard it,
II
just like what you're hearing from the -- from the D.A. and
the Judge, you know. We're exploding, okay? The call ratios
are drastic. Everything in this county is going up
drastically because of this.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess what I'm saying, I just
they're switching more and more to cell phone. Hard lines are
expensive, and -- you know, well, the cost of them. They're
inconvenient. Cell phones on a package -- I don't know how
many minutes you have. Cell phones are dirt cheap compared to
I' what I pay for a hard line or business line.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My hard line bill okay, on what
it runs a month, okay, is just about equal to my cell phone
bill. You're not talking $50 difference right now in this
proposal that I'm giving you and in the cell phone proposal.
It's just we're at a situation where I've got to get something
taken care of.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're a little bit unique,
'cause you do have to have recording capability and some-other
stuff. But, I mean, going more to the courthouse, you know, I
don't know what our status is at the courthouse phone system,
but Commissioners, I think you could go with two phone lines
in here. I mean -- and, I mean, 'cause I rarely use mine. I
use my cell phone almost entirely.
MR. TROLINGER: Well, the courthouse is limited by
handsets, not by the number of ingoing and outgoing lines
right now. Unless someone can contradict me, we're not
saturated on that. What we are saturated on are the number of
25 ~ handsets available, and we have none available right now. So;
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if somebody wants to have a phone in the Commissioners Court
', you need more trunk capacity coming in.
MR. TROLINGER: The Sheriff's Office needs more
lines, and their phone switch is not capable of expanding.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: But the good news is, it doesn't
affect 9-1-1 emergency calls. Those come straight there
through --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Does not affect if they dial
9-1-1. You have to remember, only about half our calls --
actually, now half the emergency calls come in on 9-1-1. A
lot of people in Center Point -- Center Point has a direct
line to us. A lot of people there call direct; they don't
call 9-1-1.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's, for a second, go from
land lines to cell phones. The Sheriff is undertaking a study
on his own cell phone use. I assume that's the number of
phones in play and number of minutes used per month or
whatever. What would it take from your perspective,
Mr. Trolinger, to do the same thing on the cell phone
utilization for everyone else in the county system?
MR. TROLINGER: To pull all the other departments'
25 ~ cell phone numbers? There's not -- I don't believe --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everyone else that we pay
I for .
MR. TROLINGER: It's under Telephone, so it's very
difficult to break out. But it would be possible, using the
Sheriff's negotiation skill, to -- to use Five Star
county-wide, or perhaps bid it out. To say, here -- here's
what the County wants, and what price can you provide that at?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's where I'm
coming from.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. What's our total -- what's our
total expenditure in the Sheriff's Department, for example, on
an annual basis?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cell phones?
JUDGE TINLEY: Cell phones.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Cell phones, my current bill
is -- unless we go over the minutes, and we very seldom do,
because they can all tell you, I'm pretty tight on that.
Right this minute -- and I hope to change Monday -- our cell
phone bill is $648.45 a month for cell phone. That's for 31
cell phones, okay? Which really isn't that bad. The new
contract which I want to enact immediately, all right, will
expand our service. What it does is, under -- and this isn't
necessarily a negotiation skill; this is a new business cell
phone feature that Kerrville Phone Company -- Five Star
Wireless has gone to, okay? It is 5,000 national minutes for
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199 a month for the first phone. Additional minutes would be
the 0.25, if you had to pay it. Each additional phone is 9.95
and an additional 3,000 national night and weekend minutes,
Monday through Friday and all weekend, being all day Saturday
and Sunday are free, all this kind of stuff. What it amounts
to is, the current -- currently, the Sheriff's Department has
31 wireless phone numbers, 4,000 daytime minutes with 3,000
night and weekend minutes, with a reoccurring monthly charge
of $648.45. The current plan does not include nationwide long
distance, nationwide mobile-to-mobile, or nationwide night and
weekend minutes. The new plan that they're proposing, for 31
cell phone numbers, will be $498.49 a month, and includes all
long distance, mobile-to-mobile calling, and no roaming
charges throughout the U.S. We had -- they also offer
unlimited text messaging, if you want it, at $1.95. I don't
do text messaging. It just doesn't -- and it will also
replace all of our cell phones with the current Nokia updated
cell phones to where we replaced all our old ones at 490.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: New picture phone?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, it'll be just updated on
these, okay?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's a good deal. That's very
reasonable.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They're Five Star, right?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's Five Star. And the
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reason I won't go to Sprint or look at them as of this moment,
okay, the same problem we've always had with Sprint and any of
the other ones, they still don't have enough towers in this
county, because of our terrain and everything else we have, to
give me the coverage in this county that Five Star gives us.
And I need the coverage in this county on cell phones, and
that's what is on the agenda for Monday. But, yeah, and
that's not a special deal; that's a business account. If the
County wanted to go with another business account with all the
other phones and work up something, they'd probably get that
too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's 31 hard lines cost?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's a rotating system. I
don't know. I'm paying --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do you mean, it's on the
agenda Monday? What does that mean?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Y'all have Commissioners Court
Monday -- or next Monday?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have it Monday.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Going to ask us to approve
a new contract?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going to ask you to approve a
new contract on this regular --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Approve it on Monday?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not a budget issue?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, this is because ours is up.
This drops it already. It will already save me for the rest
of this budget year, and I've got to do something with all
that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Less money?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Less money.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To wind this down, I'd like
to see people pull together all the rest of them, see where
that takes us.
MR. TROLINGER: It's a simple directive that says
everyone has to purchase new cell phones from Five Star to
make that -- you know, benefit from what the Sheriff's doing,
in my opinion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can keep your number.
There's not an issue about keeping your number any more.
MR. TROLINGER: That's correct. The issue of cell
phones replacing hand sets is just like the issue of
voice-over IP. Once you get into certain places inside a
building, it's just not there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, what we need to do is
make a court order to tell everybody to use Five Star; is that
right?
MR.	ODOM:	We use	Five	Star.
MS.	HARDIN:	Yeah,	but	we're out not on the same
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contract.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that a yes or no?
MR. TROLINGER: I don't know. Tommy, what do you
think the -- contract-wise, that would entail?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you can get penalties if
you break a contract, a lot of them.
MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. It depends on the
individual contract, I think. Because --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, you need a court order
that says --
MR. TOMLINSON: If you have a two-year contract with
six months into it, you have to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pick them up as they expire.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Need a court order that
says when your contract expires, if you're not on Five Star,
switch to it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And under this plan.
MR. TROLINGER: That sounds reasonable.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Got to switch under a county
~ plan.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What would your role be in
that?
MR. TROLINGER: I'm just giving you the big picture,.
just making the recommendation on the service provider, not
trying to --
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Say my contract expires, I
want to switch to Five Star. Do you have a role in it? Or --
MR. TROLINGER: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I do that myself?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that's -- if the County
wants to do that, I think you need to get John set up with
Five Star and have an account set up; people talk to John
about someone -- adding them to it. I don't think we want
everyone -- we'll be under the same thing we're on right now,
just all different contracts. We need to be under one county
contract.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would recommend that you keep
the Sheriff's Office contract as one and the rest of the
county as one. The reason is for the minutes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is your agenda item worded
that we can take action on that on Monday?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On my contract, yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On his contract.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, you heard John say a
little earlier that you were somewhat unique.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I think y'all have all
told me I've been unique, so --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, are you talking about
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County-wide yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because all of these y'all are
going to -- unless you go to a very large one with an
unlimited number of minutes, all of them are going to have a
number of minutes tied to them, okay? What you have
happening -- I do it inside my own department to my own
people. I look at the individual cell phone bill. I look at
who's using the most minutes, and then I go have a
conversation with whoever's using the most minutes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't you get a bill --
can't you get a bill from Five Star that breaks it down by
number?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I don't want to get into --
I think the end price of the contracts aren't going to be any
different, okay? It's a business contract that they are now
offering. I think Kerr County Courthouse, and if Road and
Bridge wants to do it or whatever, can have one contract. I
think you need to leave the Sheriff's Office contract separate
because of the number of minutes we use. I don't want to get
into a squabble later that somebody says, "Well, Sheriff's
Office is using too many minutes."
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Who's going to put
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the switch to Five Star strategy on the Commissioners Court
COMMISSIONER LETZ: John. I think John's going to
talk to Five Star and find out if we can get even a lower cost
than that if we're going county-wide on unlimited minutes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, there you go.
MR. TROLINGER: The Sheriff's an awfully good
negotiator, plus he does have a gun.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going to --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All we need y'all to do is make
sure that -- and the easiest way to do this is I need a solid
number on the number of cell phones that are owned by the
County that they use for courthouse and Road and Bridge, get a
solid --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's step one.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- number, no matter how many
minutes they normally end up getting per month, and we can do
a contract -- or negotiate a contract real quick.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: John, you'd be a good
negotiator too if you had a pistol on your hip.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't wear it much.
JUDGE TINLEY: Get you an automatic weapon. That
might work better for you, John.
MR. TROLINGER: There are only a couple of
departments I wanted to summarize, if I may, please. The --
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making a move to -- to take their archive records from
paper -- or, excuse me, from microfilm or microfiche to
scanned digital images. And what you see on the District
Clerk's budget recommendation reflects a software license and
some scanning from a company called -- well, they're saying
DM2000. I think the County Clerk --
MS. UECKER: CASO now.
MR. TROLINGER: CASO now. And I can see the records
going that way. It's -- I think it's worked out really well,
the demonstration where the -- or the installation that took
place this year, and moving the microfilm and microfiche
records to -- to electronic storage with CASO. I think you're
going to -- I think you're going to see a little bit of
activity there with the County Clerk also. I need to go speak
with her; that may not be in her budget right now. The
recommendation --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can it all be accessed over the
Internet?
MR. TROLINGER: It could be, yes, and that's where
I'm moving towards -- towards the -- for instance, the
Commissioners Court minutes, it's just the easiest way. The
technical rep came up last week and met with me, and in a few
minutes he could import and put onto PaperVision the -- the
data that I had sitting there electronically.
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MS. UECKER: We just have to implement the payment
MR. TROLINGER: That's it.
MS. UECKER: Don't want to give them away.
MR. TROLINGER: That's really not the case with
Commissioners Court minutes. There's such a low volume of
copies being made, it just -- it's available, because most --
most everyone comes in now and just reads it on the screen,
for instance. They don't want hard copies, certified copies.
But where we've got court records, you know, there's a cost
involved to the clerk's office, and they need to be reimbursed
for that. So, there's an online access issue that we're
working on right now, but that -- that CASO/DM2000/PaperVision
allows for all that inside and outside the courthouse. So --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it in their budgets for this
MR. TROLINGER: It is in the budget for the District
Clerk. The County Clerk, I need to visit with, because I just
got those numbers Friday, so that's missing from my budget
recommendation for the County Clerk.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got anything else?
MR. TROLINGER: I had a couple of notes from the
25 ~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, before we get through
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with your budget, if the Court -- I want to remind you that if
the Court approves a recommendation to establish an H.R.
department, you're going to need to equip and license two
workstations.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay?
MR. TROLINGER: Is that just another -- that's
another department, so they'd have their own line items for
capital outlay, I assume? That's about --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It should evolve that way.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Be under Commissioners
Court, I think.
MR. TROLINGER: It's fully equipped with software.
It's about -- and a monitor. It's about $975 per computer,
plus printers. I don't know what you have in mind for office
space or --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we'll be able to --
MR. TROLINGER: -- facilities.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we'll be able to
flesh that out within the next month.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Mr. Trolinger?
MR. TROLINGER: That will do it. Thank you for all
your time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we take about a 15-minute
I recess.
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74
(Recess taken from 3:09 p.m. to 3:30 p.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we
might. We were in recess for a bit. Let's come on up to the
Commissioners Court budget. That's going to be under numero
dos. I think probably the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got a picture of the chairs
here, Buster.
JUDGE TINLEY: One of the major differences you see
there is under Professional Services.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's just for us, and
us only? Is that for Commissioners Court only? That would be
indigent --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I see Professional Services
under Nondepartmental doesn't show anything, and I think that
we may want to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk about that.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- put a portion of that -- we've got
our insurance consultant contract that comes out of that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The what?
JUDGE TINLEY: The insurance.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Insurance, okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: For our health benefits program.
That's about 12,5, as I recall. And then we've got our other
professional engineering --
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've got the engineer.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's got to come out of that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the -- our engineer, if
we were going to go out and widen a road and need an engineer
to do that, it comes out of this line item here? Or is it in
Road and Bridge?
JUDGE TINLEY: You have -- you have some engineering
under Road and Bridge, you recall, under the Contract
Engineering Services that -- that Commissioner Letz was .
talking with Mr. Wells about. That's going to come under the
Road and Bridge.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the only thing,
though? So, this is a holding tank for professional services.
Federal lawyers.
JUDGE TINLEY: If need be, yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And why the increase? That's
what you were fixing to talk about.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, if -- we budgeted last year
13,000, and that's about what it's going -- that's about what
it's going to take for the insurance, so we don't have any
excess to deal with. So, that's the main reason that I
increased it on up to 20.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm in agreement with you.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's probably the main change
25 I there.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where does -- we're doing
that work out on Town Creek, and there's engineering involved
in all that. Where does that money come from? Is that Road
and Bridge?
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you step out the door
and tell those guys to get in here? We've got county business
to take care of.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I found it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You didn't let them see you
smiling, did you? Don't ever smile like that. Kind of grit
your teeth.
JUDGE TINLEY: The other area that may require some
~ adjustment --
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Commissioner Letz wants me to
represent him.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That would be an
improvement.
JUDGE TINLEY: Under Computer Maintenance --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd get your computer
program changed. I'm sorry. Computer Maintenance?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. The -- what the I.T. Director
told us, I don't see anything tied specifically to -- to
Commissioners Court on this maintenance schedule, though. It
must be -- probably all of that is covered under
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~~
Nondepartmental. That includes us. I don't know. I don't
know how that got allocated.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask this question one
more time. Is it better to have that line and that money
under Commissioners Court than it would be under the I.T.
~ budget?
JUDGE TINLEY: I think for the purpose of making the
service available and making sure that it's needed and
coordinating it with the other software upgrades and services,
I think that's properly a function of -- of I.T. oversight.
But when it comes to allocating the cost, based on what the
Auditor tells us, the cost that's attributable to
Commissioners Court should be -- we need to allocate it as
part of the cost of that department for accounting purposes.
Did I -- is that what I understood from you, Mr. Tomlinson?
MR. TOMLINSON: That -- I think so, yes.
MR. TROLINGER: I only had one other thought on
that, Tommy, and I don't know if it's feasible. But let's say
if we added up all the capital outlay for computer equipment
and put it into one line item under Information Technology,
and then, when the money was spent against that department, so
Commissioners Court --
(Loud feedback noise.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Francis? That has to be
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JUDGE ELLIOTT: Doesn't that come under Information
MR. TROLINGER: That was "A-A" in Morse code. But
would it be feasible to say, okay, now, I've got -- I just
bought six computers, but one of them goes to Commissioners
Court, and then that money appears in the Commissioners Court
line item for capital outlay? Or do I -- do you have to
allocate that at beginning of the year?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Look at him hunker down out
there.
MR. TROLINGER: That was my only thought on that,
Judge.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. I'd have to look at
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we do it end of the
year. We transfer a lot at end-of-the-year budgets. If it
was under one item and moved to where it was spent, I wouldn't
-- I mean, that's tracking it at this point.
MR. TOMLINSON: Capital Outlay's different, 'cause I
have to -- it really doesn't mean as much as other operating
~I
expenses, because I eliminate that anyway. I mean, in the --
in the full accrual statements, I have to eliminate all the
capital outlay as expenses, 'cause they don't -- under those
guidelines, you don't consider capital outlays as expense. It
goes into assets, and then you set up depreciation schedules
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on those assets, and then charge expense. So, the -- the
amounts expended for -- for capital outlay doesn't mean as
much as -- as another outlay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: I mean, I could work with it either
~ way.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think we need to explore some kind
of -- what I'm looking to I.T. for is guidance on those issues
for coordinating the types of services, software services that
are needed, the type of equipment that's needed, telephone '
equipment, all that sort of stuff. But when it comes to
expensing it, whatever you need from an accounting standpoint.
But I want the overall -- the oversight to come out of the
I.T. Department, because that's the guy with the knowledge,
and he knows what the state of the art, what fits with what
'~, and what doesn't fit. That's -- however that meshes, that's
what I'm looking for.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have -- I mean, that's-okay.
At some point, it has -- we got to account for it some way.
And if John -- you know, if I.T. wants to come up with a total
amount for purchases for equipment, that's fine, just so long
as we have a handle on -- on how much of it applies to each
department. That's all I need.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, if we had -- if we had
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everything under the I.T., all this purchase of hardware and
software and all those things was built into his budget alone,
and he goes and makes a computer purchase for the
Commissioners Court, then it's almost double work for -- to
pull it out of his -- to make the purchase and then assign it
to Commissioners Court. Whereas if it were in Commissioners
Court, you'd simply reduce the number. Is that -- am I seeing
that right? That it would be more work for you?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, no. As the bill comes in, we
could charge it directly to -- to the Court, and when we pay
the invoice, we could assign the invoice -- the cost of the
invoice to whatever department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you do that now?
MR. TROLINGER: It would be less, because you
wouldn't be typing all those numbers in -- line items up
front; it would just be one number in I.T., and then as it was
spent, it would be transferred. It would be typed into --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't see it. It just -- I
don't know. I'm with you, though. I think the control needs
to be in one place.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the main thing I'm trying --
is general oversight and control in the I.T. Department of all
of those pieces of equipment or services.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
25 ~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's the way to
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MR. TROLINGER: I have been able to -- we spent
quite a lot on computer hardware last year. And software, of
course. But the -- the desktop computers for the County
Clerk's office, for instance, when I went to the -- the vendor
and asked for a quote for five computers, I was able to
negotiate; you know, give me a couple extra things along with.
that. So, even though we're dealing with a large company,
they're still willing to give us breaks once we start giving .
them quantity orders, and that's what I was hoping to achieve,
is -- is that quantity order.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Makes sense.
JUDGE TINLEY: And if your total budget includes,
over the course of a year for 18 departments, the purchase of
30 computers, even though you're not going to place all those
orders at one time, they're going to talk turkey with you a
little bit more.
MR. TROLINGER: Generally.
JUDGE TINLEY: Probably.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You probably could place an
order at one time, and just set up different delivery dates.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: And that gives you a handle on it.
And once they come in, you can designate that computer going
to this department, the next one to that department. He can
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pick it up and assign it out.
MR. TROLINGER: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all work on that. Could you do
I that?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else do we have under
Commissioners Court?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One item.
JUDGE TINLEY: Professional Services, Jon, the
engineering for Road and Bridge we've got under Road and
Bridge budget, right?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no fee there. It's
i revenue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The engineering review.
Engineering review.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, but that's not -- we really
don't need a budget item for that, because we're receiving --
I mean, the money's coming in. It's going to be in Road and
Bridge. I was talking to Truby and Leonard about that.
They're going to do it kind of like they do culverts -- which
I didn't know they did culverts this way, but they're going to
have a quarterly balancing out with Mindy. And they're
already working that out, I believe, so that the -- I mean,
there's an engineering review fee that the -- we pay the
engineer, and the developer pays us.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it should stay -- should be
I at --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a wash.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- zero. At the end of the
year, it should be zero for all of his services.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there -- is there other
kind of engineering done, though? The developers --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not related to subdivision.
Now, there could be some county engineering done.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I'm talking
I about.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- but Leonard usually puts
that in his budget.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He puts that in his budget?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not under
Professional Services under the Court?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: One thing that would not be included,
we did allocate a separate line item for Survey. Any
surveying services would have to be moved up under
Professional Services, since we didn't do the item in
Commissioners Court budget.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Leonard -- actually, on
that, he's usually covered the survey costs. We don't do that
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much of that, but he's been able to -- what we have done in my
precinct, he's handled that out of his regular budget, and out
at Hermann Sons, there's been -- I don't know who gets those
bills. Someone -- we've had Lee Voelkel out there several
times trying to figure out where that right-of-way is. And
the -- I think one invoice, I think they got it. But, anyway,
surveyors like to survey curves, and so -- and fence builders
don't like to build fences on curves; circular fences are
expensive. So -- but I don't think -- I think that's really
-- I mean, we did have it here for a while, a survey amount,
but I really think it's been absorbed into Leonard's, so I
don't think we need to have anything in that Professional
Services. It's really more the things that come up during the
year that are a little bit of a surprise, such as --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, lawsuits.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, like the audit we had
to do, for example.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that audit. And we've had
architects we've had to hire to do certain things here and
there. And -- and if there's a price that comes up that
Leonard doesn't have the money, I think it could be
transferred, using a transfer to do some other sort of
professional services. But we did, like -- didn't we pay for
the -- these surveys, I.T. type surveys? Didn't we do one a
couple years ago with the radio tower? Wasn't it -- didn't
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part of that come out of Professional Services originally?
And it was several years ago, but anyway, that's usually what
this item is used for, not a Road and Bridge item.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, also, the consulting
for the insurance, doesn't that come out of Professional
Services?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the major bulk.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the major -- about 12,5,
13,000, somewhere in there. Okay. Well, let's move to
~ Nondepartmental.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well --
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One little item. I'd like
to propose that we replace these 12-year-old chairs. A couple
of them on this dais are breaking down. And my proposal's not
top of the line, not bottom of the line, but middle of the
line, so that would be five times $277. $1,385. I can save
that much money on chiropractor fees after we get done with
it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: With Commissioner Baldwin
and Bruce Oehler sitting here, they're not going to last very
long. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a capital outlay?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would put it in capital
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outlay, unless somebody suggested differently.
JUDGE TINLEY: What was the total? 13 --
I, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 1,385.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does it rise to the level --
no capital outlay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No capital outlay. Where do
you want to crank it in?
JUDGE TINLEY: Equipment?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Operating.
MR. TOMLINSON: Under 579.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is operating?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's one line item, so
1,385 plus the 750.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: With the Human Resources
Officer reporting to Commissioners Court, I'm assuming that
that will -- those costs will be reflected in -- on this page.
And we can't nail them down now, but we'll need to soon.
JUDGE TINLEY: Nondepartmental.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we should put them the
same we way we do I.T.; should be a separate page. Still
reports to us, but we keep track of it separate, so it doesn't
get --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With I.T.?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Like I.T.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not with I.T.
MR. TROLINGER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The -- my best guess right
now is that two-person office is going to cost a total of
somewhere between $100,000 and $115,000 a year, and that'll be
partially offset by, my best guess, about a $65,000-a-year
reduction in the Treasurer's office, so the net cost will be
somewhere between $35,000 and $50,000 a year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably where I see
it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Give me those numbers again.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Gross cost of the office
would be between 100 and 115, and subtracting 65,000 from the
Treasurer's budget, your net cost will be somewhere between 35
and 50.
24 budgeted?
25
JUDGE TINLEY: Treasurer and two.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where -- walk me through the
Treasurer's reduction.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Chief deputy.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think it's just a
one-person office when it's simply banking and investments.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Isn't it staffed with the
Treasurer and three right now? Not staffed; isn't it
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Budgeted for Treasurer and
I two .
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Treasurer and two?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two and a half, isn't it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Treasurer, chief deputy,
I and half.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, right, two and a half.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's the Treasurer plus one
and a half.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Budgeted for 40 -- $50,000
worth of help, whatever that is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab are you on there,
I Dave?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 12, I think it is -- no.
JUDGE TINLEY: 13.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 13.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is the Treasurer's.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there's 50 right
there, plus the FICA's and everything else.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I took that 49,000 and just
estimated FICA and health care.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 49 plus the FICA,
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retirement, everything else.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One and a half.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 55.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One and a half, so I think
there's definitely one. I don't know if you need to leave
that half down there or not. But --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maybe.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, just part-time.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or part-time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Really need to look at the
duties.
JUDGE TINLEY: Going to be a half left?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got to have somebody to
answer the phone.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the only reason you need
anything more than a half.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, then, the net might
be more than 35 to 50; it might be 50 to 70 net cost.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, we'd set that up
under a separate department under Commissioners Court?
MR. TOMLINSON: Oh, yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wouldn't mind -- well,
we'll talk about it in our Monday meeting, but I'll just bring
you up to date. Me and Commissioner Williams had talked --
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instead of setting a salary for that number one position on
Monday, I think we should advertise it as the salary depends
upon experience.
JUDGE TINLEY: Qualifications.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We may get a wide variety.
And also, I think we should be flexible on the requirements.
I think we should say, "College degree and five years
~, experience desired," to give us a little flexibility there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- on the Treasurer's --
and you looked at this; was there any adjustment anticipated
in the Treasurer's salary? Elected official salary?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I didn't consider that.
That's something that probably needs to be considered.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would -- my personal feeling
is that should be more in line with the Commissioners' salary,
as opposed to an elected official that is managing a large
group of people. Which I think is -- I mean, that's a change.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one -- which one are
you talking about, Jon?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the Treasurer -- the
elected official salary, the Treasurer's department, should be
more in line with the Commissioners' salary, as opposed to an
elected official who is supervising a large department.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I see a significant
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difference between her job and the County Clerk or --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- the clerk of the courts.
But we'll get to Treasurer's department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, do you think that
we're treading in a legal minefield here, of tinkering with
that?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't think so. The Court has
that authority.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: We need to look at the --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Might be a political minefield.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- the duties required. Well, sure
it's a political minefield. Everything we do here is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to yell at me.
JUDGE TINLEY: You asked me a question. He's the
one that goosed me, though, right?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Buster is a sensitive soul,
I isn't he?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's really sensitive today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just after the library deal
~ yesterday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're looking at probably a
$50,000 to $60,000 --
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On that order.
I, COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody write it down before
he gets completely over 100. So, I want to go back to one of
', your thoughts. It is better to not even mention a figure than
~' to -- and then you're going to have 100 people come in with
all kinds of wild things going on, as opposed to being
~~, specific with what number you're going to offer, and scale
~I that down to 25, as opposed to 100.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. If somebody making
~, $80,000 a year applies for it, I don't mind just --
~i
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Telling them no.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- just sending them a nice
letter and saying -- you know, we'll get more this way, but
it's not hard to narrow them down.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you never can figure
those folks that will give up some money to live in Kerrville,
Texas.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like we all have done.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an unknown factor.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If we find one we like and
the current salary is a little high for us, we may just have
to say, "We like you, but we can't pay that much."
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another dynamic in
play in terms of who. We have a lot of people who've retired
here who've had that experience who might be looking to rejoin
the job force.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is true.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Or it could be a trailing
spouse, somebody that retired early moving here, and his or
her spouse has got the qualifications and could be looking for
a job.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a possibility.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I think we'll find a
~ person.
(Laughter in the courtroom.)
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you know what contempt
of court is?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: I said I don't think Ed Nemec's
interested in that job.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So, Monday we'll ask
for a court order to begin a job search for --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, a court order to
establish the department.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And begin the job search.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can we talk about the Sheriff
now?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's talk about the
Sheriff. Has he left yet?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sheriff? Wait a minute.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My budget's not on there.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff's proposal for
consolidation. We're going to consolidate you with the police
department, right? Is that what we're talking about?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What happened to
Nondepartmental?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, you got to keep it
kind of short, 'cause Commissioner Letz and I have to be down
the street at 5 o'clock. So --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For another fun session.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What tab are you under,
~ Rusty?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I shouldn't be any under of
them. I don't have -- this wasn't to discuss my budget, was
it? Or was it to discuss the step and grade?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Step and grades, Rusty. Don't
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get all excited.
JUDGE TINLEY: No, the agenda item is styled so that
we can talk about your budget.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Fine. I have it here. If you
want to talk about it, I don't have a problem.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Were these proposed in the
Sheriff's Office?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I hope not.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a legitimate
I question.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You prepared these
schedules?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, I had prepared them.
Barbara has looked at them, and our outside auditor that the
I
County had hired. And I had talked about it's not a matter of
preparing them; it's a matter of starting them in the program.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The one you just -- the one
you just handed out?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Handed you two. One says
"Clerk" on it. What that is, is the current step and grade
~' scale that the courthouse uses, okay? The courthouse and all
clerical personnel, like my clerical. The one I think should
be adjusted and everybody to go one consolidated.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's really more than
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I
clerical. Road and Bridge --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Road and Bridge, everybody,
yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Everybody but Sheriff's.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Everybody but deputies,
jailers, and nurses that use it, okay? The proposed one is
the one that I am proposing that you start using, that will
24 increase.
25
On the proposed one, each step is two and a half
cover everybody -- every county employee, unless they're
elected and just straight salary or something like that. But
otherwise, if they fit in the step and grades, it would fall
in that proposed. As you can tell, on the current one, the
clerk, you have pay grades -- under the very first deal on the
far left, pay grades is the 12, 13, 14, 15, okay? And it goes
all the way on down to almost 35, and then you have steps
going to 12 across. On the proposed one -- well, basically,
what that is, each step on that clerk one, the difference in
between the steps are two and a half percent. That's the way
the County has done it, and that's where it got messed up with
deputy jailers to where it dropped their -- each grade on that
clerk one is five percent. And that's when we ran into it
last time, trying to get the deputies' deal straightened out.
If you actually regraded them to try and get them to fit in
with one joint one, it actually gave them too big of an
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percent, and each grade is two and a half percent, okay? So
your steps across are two and a half, and your grades down two
and a half; it gives you a lot more leeway in the grades down
to plug in other people without changing salaries drastically.
And if you look, as far as -- Jonathan had asked last time I
brought this what was the overall effect on the current budget
when we were doing this for the current budget; what would it
do to the salary line item for all the deputies and jailers
and the entire department? If you look at the one that I
provided you, and that does have names and everything and
salaries on it on the left part, you -- at the top it says
"Current G & S salary." Okay. And on the far right, it says
"Proposed G & S salary." This is where they would plug in, at
what step and grade they would. At the bottom of the second
page, we figured over three years, the deputies and jailers
~I and them had lost over 60,000 total, or somewhere around
there, okay?
The bottom of the second page, the difference in
salary that going to this type of deal would make in all
dispatchers and deputies and that would be the 25,726, and
then have you the FICA and the other. On the bottom of the
third page, real close to the bottom, the very two bottom
people are part-time. They're hourly; it didn't change. It
says what the difference in the jail -- all the jail personnel
and clerk would be, which is a total of 8,093. Now, that is a
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yearly total of what the change would be.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Say that again?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a yearly total.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How much is it?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On what we would be making up
out of the 60-something we figured we lost would be the 25
plus the 8, instead of 60. We've gone back down. They're
not -- it does -- it does not make up for everything that was
miscalculated, but it does come very close, and in meetings
I've had with all the officers, it would take care of the
shortages or discrepancies that they're --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, adopting this proposed
budget will add how much to your budget next year?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Adopting this --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Proposed schedule.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The proposed schedule, if you
don't add cost of living and all that, all that -- okay, this
is base right now, okay? Doesn't add that. It's going to add
that 8,000, 25,000, plus the FICA.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do I -- give me one number.
How much is it going to add?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, do you have --
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. The gross salary cost is 33,8.
And let me figure --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
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99
JUDGE TINLEY: -- 14 percent, and that'll give you
38,5, roughly.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Including retirement and -- and
payroll costs.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, this isn't what I'm saying
budget-wise. This is to get the entire county under one step
and grade.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You -- you've measured the
impact for the change to the Sheriff's Department?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the impact for the
rest of the courthouse?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There is none.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: None?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: None.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Zero?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Zero.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're sure?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm sure.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Willing to stake your life
I on it?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because what if -- if you look
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at -- in the clerk's schedule -- and the reason this works
out, look at a 12 -- or, okay, go to the clerk's schedule and
look at a 13-1 on the clerk's -- on the one that says Clerk.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. You see a salary there
at 25,057.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? Under the proposed
schedule, look at a 13-1. 25,057. It does not reclassify
anybody. We added another half step in there so that we could
get the deputies in right without jumping things or lowering
things and get them back where the discrepancies were, so it
all works out.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that the only reason for
adding the half steps in?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I don't think so.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What's the other reason?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the other reason for
adding the half step is what the -- the department heads,
including myself, had said about getting our clerks up above
some grades, giving some grades -- but if you do away with
12's, put them at 13's, then the people at 13's are going to
want to go to 14's. People at 14's -- and it's that rolling
effect.
MS. UECKER: No.
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You got 35 in the clerical
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Coincidentally, from my
memory from a long, long time ago, that's the same number of
salary grades that the Dupont Chemical Company has, from
janitors to C.E.O. So -- and that was kind of laughed at as
too many salary grades.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, there is one more -- you
notice it only goes out to a Step 12, okay? I would
propose -- if the Court, in a formal adoption process, through
a hearing, would like to adopt this proposed to get everybody
under one step and grade county-wide, okay, which I strongly
recommend to figure salaries and everything, I would also
propose freezing it after a Step 12. Nobody goes higher than
a Step 12. That creates a problem. And the reason I'm saying
that -- and I think Linda has not heard this, but I think
she'll agree with it. If you look at law enforcement and Road
and Bridge, those that have educational, first we look at
longevity. A person can get a longevity raise, okay, which is
a step, after one year, and then it's four years after that by
the policy that's been adopted.
MS. UECKER: Three years.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three years. So that's 1, 4,
7, 10, 13, 16, 19, and 22. If a person had 22 years of
service with this county, the most -- without any educational
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? But law enforcement and
Road and Bridge have educational. The most law enforcement
can get in educational, okay, is four steps. That would put
~~ them from 8 to 12. And the policy for four steps on top of
the eight, which would go to 12.
JUDGE TINLEY: They're required to have a basic
certificate, aren't they?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They get one for intermediate,
one for advanced, two for master.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. There's an advanced in between
I there and master?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the way we're set up.
(Discussion off the record.)
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But what I'm saying is -- so
law enforcement technically can -- can get, in a 22-year
period, up to 12 steps, as long as there's no merit. And I
would propose a policy that this Court consider that any of
those employees that are capable of getting an educational
increase are not entitled to merit increases, because I think
their education serves both purposes, as a merit and
education. They get merit 'cause they get better educated.
But any county employee that is not capable of getting, or is
not qualified or eligible of getting an educational increase,
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be allowed, in the 22-year employment, the capability of
having four merit increases. That way, at the end of a
22-year career, whether they're law enforcement, whether
they're clerks, whether they're anything else, everybody can
end up at a Step 12 in their grade, and so that nobody cannot
get to that end deal. And then, after a Step 12, those
', salaries are frozen except for cost-of-living. The State
freezes theirs after so many, and most agencies do it so it
doesn't keep going up, okay? And I have a couple of officers
that, due to merit increases and educational increases -- not
merit increases on my end, merit increases on part -- I got
one that's past a Step 12 now, and I've told him his is going
to be frozen. And I got some that are right at it that I
think should be -- and I've told them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I agree with you, 12
step -- Step 12 should be the max, absolutely.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that would be fair.
But I also think that if they're law enforcement or a -- not
law enforcement. If they are an employee entitled to
educational, they should not get merit. That serves a dual
purpose. And if they're employees that are not entitled to
educational, then they should be eligible or able to earn up
to four steps merit over a 22-year period. That puts
everybody at a Step 12 if they retired and had all that after
25 ~ 22 years. And the other way solves a whole lot of budgetary
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105
problems with the Treasurer, H.R. division, whoever it is on
figuring the salaries, figuring anything else. And that goes
along with it to do the step and grade. It's very simple. No
matter what kind of classification you are, if you know their
position, you know what their deal is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think this is a good solution
for the problem in Rusty's department to get everybody on one
schedule, and I wouldn't mind adopting it this year. But the
next step, I think, next year is to turn it over and get rid
of about 15 of these levels, and try to do some consolidation
of these other over several years, because 29 different salary
levels is pretty absurd.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just wondering, in the
same context, Commissioner, whether or not we needed all those
half steps all the way up to the top.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a certain point at
which we eliminate the half steps.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The highest person I have
classified currently in the current deputies step and grade,
~I which isn't in -- is a 29. There's 25's and 29's. This would
cover 30 -- 31, I think I have on there -- would cover all the
county employees that you have, the way they are graded right
now. If you look at the -- the step and grade that was
I adopted through the Ray and Associates and through Nash, okay,
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you actually have adopted back then 35 steps. That's the way
it was. That's not added; that's what it was at the time.
~, JUDGE TINLEY: Nancy?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 35 grades.
JUDGE TINLEY: I notice the handwriting on the
proposed grade/step schedule -- that's obviously not the
Sheriff's handwriting; I recognize that as yours. Thank you
for all of your hard work on this. I know where it came from.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you -- if you look at one
thing, though, Judge, I've had to be careful, because some of
your -- some of your clerk stuff wasn't rounded right by the
3.2 and different cost of living, and this figured everything
correctly as it's supposed to be done. And Nancy's yearly
salary went down by one dollar.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're going in the
right direction here.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It does not change the hourly
rate; it's rounding. There's a couple of other ones that went
up by $2 or $3. It's a rounding deal in the computer program,
the Excel program, when you truly do the 3.2 cost-of-living or
whatever it's been over the years in the 2.5 steps in there.
If you look, the hourly rate's not changed. It's just
rounding part of that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question.
This all started because the County made some mistakes and
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107
correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Inadvertently, of course.
And now -- and we wanted -- and our next little step was that
we were going to correct that and pay those people what we had
underpaid them over the last three years.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And now we're -- now we're to
a point to where we -- on this schedule, we're raising
salaries on people that were not even there. Now, did -- how
did we arrive at this?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What do you mean, raising
salaries on people that aren't -- weren't there?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have some corrections
officers -- you have three open slots --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that are currently 14-1's,
and we're raising them to 18-5's.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay, what you're doing --
you're not raising; you're putting them in the proposed
schedule. That starting salary on a 14-1 would go to a 14-5
to make sure everybody stays in the step and grade. Okay?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're at a 14-1 at 21,597.
25 ~ SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm.
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108
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're going to an 18-5.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, no, no. No, Buster. The
14-1 you're looking at, okay -- no. On the step and grade you
have, you're looking at the clerk step and grade.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I did give you the 14-1, which
is the separate step and grade that the jail -- the separate
step and grade the Sheriff's Office has now, okay? What I'm
doing is trying to consolidate where it doesn't change
courthouse people; it takes care of all the problems, all
right? If you look at the start --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You hush. You hush.
JUDGE TINLEY: This 14-1 here is under the jailer's
schedule, which we don't have.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have that schedule?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. But it equates with
the new 18 and a half-1, and the difference is a hundred --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $100.
JUDGE TINLEY: $102.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you do have the
jailers, too. Last sheet.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do?
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schedules that he had out there that we're getting rid of.
That -- that's why they don't line up with this one that we've
just gotten.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. There are -- there are
some -- I'm not arguing with you.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, there's a $100 difference.
You're correct, okay? It's just the step and grade you were
using was wrong.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me get back to the deputy
type folk.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: $300 difference at starting
salary.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $300 --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right at.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- difference in starting
~ salary.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Per year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, is that $300 what we
underpaid them for three years?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's less than what you
underpaid them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only it goes on and on and on
forever, and adds -- and adds up.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You actually -- some of those
were underpaid from 600-something to 700-something.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess my question is --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Per year. We're compromising
and going three --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand where you're
~ going.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A one-time compromise.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My turn. I understand where
you're going, and I agree with Letz on -- on your proposal of
the schedule. I like what you're doing. I think it fixes --
fixes this all. But I'm still concerned about, does it fix
the problem of us underpaying those deputies for three years?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And everybody's going to be
~ happy?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had a meeting with my entire
department three weeks ago, and pretty well advised them this
is what I was going with, and I got full support from the
entire department to do it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He was wearing his gun that day.
JUDGE TINLEY: Most of them got one just as big as
his, though.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Some of them, a lot bigger.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I've got a question.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're all bigger than
I he is.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We all are.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm going to ask you a
~ question. And, Diane, I might ask you the same question. How
many different salary grades do you have in your organization?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can take your shoes off.
MS. UECKER: Four.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And three? Okay. What's
your entry level?
MS. UECKER: 13-1.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Now, that person
that comes in as a 13-1 does good work and everything.
Sometime in the future, you've got an opening above that.
They're a candidate for promotion to the next -- no?
MS. UECKER: No. I can go -- I can go wide, but I
can't go high.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If I'm in the entry level
job and you have an opening --
MS. UECKER: Oh, if I have another opening, yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You'll consider me for
promotion to that?
MS. UECKER: Which I --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What -- go from a
13-something to a what?
MS. UECKER: 15.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 15. Two salary grades.
Under this, I'd go four salary grades, with the half steps.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going to keep the salary
differential the same, yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would I consider -- in this
case, where I was promoted and got a two-step increase, would
I consider that a -- a significant increase? A meaningful --
whatever?
MS. UECKER: From the 13 to the 15?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: 10 percent.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 10 percent.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So this won't -- that's
what I'm trying to get. Diane, are you okay with those
answers?
MS. BOLIN: Yeah, except that our entry level is
I 12-1 .
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's another issue that we're going
to be talking about.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's all part of this, too.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How are we going to use
these half steps? What --
MS. UECKER: How are we going to use the what?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm calling them half
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MS. UECKER: I won't use them.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You won't use them?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The half steps were mainly put
in there so that you could consolidate, get everybody on one
step and grade.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a convenience.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If that's -- a lot of them that
are in there are all -- most of your deputies, jailers,
dispatchers. If you look on this sheet I gave you with all
the names -- officer's name, okay, where it has -- on
Proposed, where it has, like -- down under the patrol
deputies, it has 21.5-4. What that actually is, is he would
go from the 19-4 in the current one to a 21.5, Step 4.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's my -- I got my
answer.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That fits him in. That's .what
that is. That's the only way we could get him in without
giving him too much to make up for the discrepancy, but
solving the problem and getting everybody all back on one.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I understand. I just
wanted to think about the unintended consequences and make
', sure we're not creating a problem for Diane and --
I
i SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, their salaries are in
there, and it stays the same way, same steps.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question. What
was your question to Linda? How many different what's?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many different salary
~ grades.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grades.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Whatever we call them. Pay
~ grades.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what is that -- oh, I
i see .
MS. UECKER: I have a 13, 15, --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
MS. UECKER: -- 17, and 19.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, I'll tell you a question
I've always had, and I cannot get my brain wrapped around
this. We have full-time employees and we have part-time
employees, and we have full-time part-time employees.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that's changed now,
Buster.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you may want to inform
some folks in the courthouse.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the reason it changed,
some of those full-time part-time, it was the number of hours,.
and the County had to start paying the retirement, put in all
that for them. So, you had part time, then you had part-time
full-time, 'cause they had too many hours and started getting
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retirement benefits.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Either --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under the last Legislature.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they work over 19 hours,
they're a full-time employee. If they get --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- all the benefits, they're
a full-time employee. If they don't, they're a part-time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, they're all getting
I benefits.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All our part-time people get
retirement benefits and that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How are you classified,
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a full-time part-time.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just to settle the argument,
~ I guess.
JUDGE TINLEY: On health benefits, there's a
requirement of 30 hours. Now, by virtue of recent legislative
change, any part-time employee accrues retirement benefits,
correct?
MR. TOMLINSON: Unless they're temporary.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Unless what?
MR. TOMLINSON: Unless they're temporary.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Temporary.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Now we just created another
I class.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Temporary part-time.
MR. TOMLINSON: Unless they're -- you know, like, if
they're here --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like temporary full-time
I better.
MR. TOMLINSON: If you have an employee that's
part-time or working in a particular job, and they're done
when that job's over, then those types of employees, you don't
have to have --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's kind of a contract type.
JUDGE TINLEY: The other general rule for a
temporary is six months or less, isn't it?
MR. TOMLINSON: I think so.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, go back -- go back to the
full-time part-time thing. Just -- I just -- is there a new
law?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the last Legislature --
previously, we weren't required to pay part-time -- retirement
benefits for part-time employees.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. And that's under 19
hours.
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MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: But for health benefits, it requires
II! 30 hours a week or more.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And now part-time employees get
retirement benefits.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Period.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, you had to bring it up
~ again.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We have -- we have
part-time employees that are getting paid for vacation time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Solve that by reclassifying
them all as temporaries.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that just blows me
away. I don't understand that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Legislature said you had to.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hilderbran. Let me give you
his number.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 257-2333.
JUDGE TINLEY: You might know it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Have you talked to him
about our overhead utility line problem?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's got about half of his
~ butt gone now.
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(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. We -- we have to
take action in a Commissioners Court meeting to --
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's not on the agenda.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Get it on there.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I thought this was going to
handle some of that. I didn't put the step and grade on the
agenda. I think it should be --
JUDGE TINLEY: What about --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do you want to do my budget?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we're not doing your budget.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not today.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good enough. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do we want to talk about the proposal
of 12 and 13, moving those to 13, 14?
MS. UECKER: Yeah. Here was the justification that
I read to y'all about that last year.
JUDGE TINLEY: I remember it.
MS. UECKER: By heart, huh?
JUDGE TINLEY: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is what?
MS. UECKER: I think I read that to y'all last year
when I asked the Court at budget time to do that.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, to be honest with you,
I thought we had -- even when Commissioner Griffin was here, I
thought we had moved the 12 to 13.
MS. UECKER: Yeah. See, and I thought that was done
too, but it never happened. Now, the Treasurer told me she
was going to do a -- a schedule with those changes on it so
that we could see what the -- the difference was going to be
in all the clerical positions county-wide, but I haven't seen
it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are you proposing to
MS. UECKER: Move all the 12's -- and, actually, I
don't have a 12. That would affect the Treasurer and the Tax
Assessor, and I don't know where they are.
MS. ROBISON: We have two 12's.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, and the Sheriff's Office. But it
would move my 13 to a 14, because in the clerical chart, there
is no 14, so it wouldn't affect the 15's, 17's, or 19's.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you just make your first
level closer to your second level.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, mm-hmm. And, you know, and I --
I don't know if you'll do it or not, but after all of the
intense training that we went through during the Odyssey --
you know, I'd like John to say something about that.
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MR. TROLINGER: Well, I've gotten a pretty good look
at, actually, all the departments and what they do, and these
are positions of responsibility. And Linda needs people
that -- you know, she's basically swearing as her deputies to
stamp and sign names, and you're not going to attract that
quality of person without -- without eliminating one or two
steps.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not a lot of people.
I think what we're going to need is a list of everybody that's
in Salary Group 12 and 13, and a bottom line number of what --
how much we'd be increasing salaries if we did this.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think probably hit 12, 13, and
14 so you can see what you're moving the 13's into, what all
of a sudden their new --
MS. UECKER: Right. I thought I was going to have
that schedule, 'cause she was going to work on it and give it
to me. But, as you can see on this list, most of this stuff
is not even the requirements that a court coordinator has.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A what?
MS. UECKER: A court coordinator. I mean, they -- I
mean, it's the fee responsibilities, you know, court -- even
-- even if they don't have to interpret the judgments and make
responsible decisions on issuance and --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think if we get that list
of how many people it's going to affect and what the -- what
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the cost is -- the cost is going to be rolled in for, I'm
sympathetic with doing it. That's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am too.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That 12-1 is not much
~ money.
JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't you get with the Treasurer
to get that tabulation for us, if you would, please?
MS. UECKER: Okay, I will.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes, ma'am?
MS. BOLIN: Can I ask a question?
JUDGE TINLEY: Surely.
MS. BOLIN: Sorry, since I'm not familiar with this.
When we're getting you the schedule of the people, that's
going to affect half of our people, the 12's and 13's. That's
what the majority of our office is, is that. Moving them up,
like, if they're a 12-2, they'll be a 13-2?
MS. UECKER: Right.
MS. BOLIN: And they'll make what a 13-2 is
scheduled at currently?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MS. BOLIN: Okay.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, the step will say the same. The
grade will just go higher, one higher.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got a question about that.
Say we do that and we adopt this. Then the COLA goes on top
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of that?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I just wanted to --
when we do it, when we do the court order, I think we need to
be real clear and specific about that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Question.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, good point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: We've seen the effects of not being
specific enough, haven't we?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've got stuck in that
crack before.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. BOLIN: One more thing. When would you -- when
would you gentlemen like-this list?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Our next workshop.
MS. BOLIN: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's a workshop that you can't be
at.
MS. BOLIN: But I'll give it to Paula.
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	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Tell her tomorrow.	Let's see
how bad	she wants to do	that stuff.	
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: A.S.A.P.	
	MS. UECKER:	Well, I think the -- the big	list is
going to	have to come f	rom the Treasurer's office.	
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Mm-hmm.	
	MS. UECKER:	But I will give her a call.	
	JUDGE TINLEY:	That's where we are right	now, is
step and	grade schedules. And -- as the Court has	seen from
the memo	I sent to the	Treasurer sometime back, I r	equested
those, a	nd I'm not sure where we are on that.	
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: I thought you got all	that
information.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jackie did come in here earlier
and said something happened and she was going to explain to
y'all why Barbara wasn't here. I don't know what that is.
Jackie left, and I don't know if --
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Everybody's spooling up, it
looks like to me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, what happened to
Nondepartmental? Did I miss it?
JUDGE TINLEY: That must have been when you took
your nap, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could have been. That's what
I'm asking.
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JUDGE TINLEY: We talked about it briefly. I don't
think we -- there was a lot of gnashing of teeth over it, but
we talked about it briefly.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got -- I think that's
I where --
JUDGE TINLEY: We can certainly talk about it some
more. Number 2?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It may not even be the place
for this thing to go, but we have two telephone lines that
9-1-1 department has been paying for all these years, and
it's -- one line is for our citizens to call to get the burn
ban information. That's one line. And then there's a
separate telephone line that we use to call and change the
information on the burn ban. They've been paying for it all
these years, and it's really -- we talked about this a couple
years ago. It's really a county function, so we want to
transfer that over. Tommy, how much did I tell you that it
was for two lines?
MR. TOMLINSON: $24 a month.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A whopping $24 a month. That
would make a payment on a new chair.
JUDGE TINLEY: 288.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get two armrests.
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covered is 7,000, and telephone and computer will cover that.
We may want to --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd leave it at 7,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Before we go, I want to
have two minutes to talk about fire protection, give you a
report.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's going to go in that
~ 7, 000?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the 420.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Got it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Got it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's fine.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's where it would be. Those are
all of our telephone line charges.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Long as it's in there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, that's over five -- 500
a month that we pay for our telephone lines here at the
courthouse. Okay. Anything else on Nondepartmental?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, that is all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, shoot.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm glad -- I was hoping
all the press had left. Almost made it out. One of them's
still around.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Can you hold on just a minute? Let's
see where we are on step and grade. Jackie? Ms. Magenheimer,
do you have any information on step and grade schedules and
personnel schedule?
MS. MAGENHEIMER: Barbara sent over the disk, and
when I put it in to print that schedule, it would not print.
I tried and tried; it would not print. I went to another
computer, had the same problem. I don't know what -- I don't
know what the problem is. So, until we get that resolved --
and please don't hurt the messenger. I'm only the messenger.
MR. TROLINGER: Jackie is very good at
troubleshooting problems. That's exactly what I would have
recommended; try it on another computer.
MS. MAGENHEIMER: But, anyway --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, give the disk to him; let
~ him print it.
MR. TROLINGER: Bad disk. It's a bad disk.
MS. MAGENHEIMER: That's what I'm concluding. So --
but I'm not an expert. So, anyway, that's --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, a new disk shouldn't be
hard to come by.
MS. MAGENHEIMER: No, I wouldn't think so.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. MAGENHEIMER: Anyway, that's the message.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. MAGENHEIMER: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. You
look nice in orange -- is that orange?
MS. MAGENHEIMER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Peach.
MS. MAGENHEIMER: Peach.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Peach. Don't get angry.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the way home last night,
I stopped by Ingram, and, you know, they're there about 16, 18
hours a day at Ingram Fire Department. Talked to Ray Lynch,
and had two questions for him. One, how much do you rely on
and how much do you need backup from Kerrville Fire
Department? And he reported that he likes their personnel
when he has a structure fire. Doesn't need their equipment,
but it's good to have the extra manpower. And I asked him how
often he used that. He says last time was April, and not very
often. He's got more structures to worry about than other
volunteer fire departments, I think. He's contracted also by
Ingram, and his area is -- goes over into one and out halfway
to Hunt and Mountain Home. I asked him if -- if the County
wanted to partially fund a combination operation fire
department at Ingram, some full-time and continuation of the
volunteer fire department, was that feasible and would he be
interested? And he said it is doable, and something like that
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is being done in Fredericksburg.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct.
whether or not they'd be interested. He wants to talk to his
boys and girls. So, I made it clear to him that it wasn't a
plan, wasn't an offer, just a feasibility question. Going to
talk to Hunt, and I talked to Mountain Home. And Hunt
estimates they've used Kerrville four times in the last ten
years. And Mountain Home, they're so far and have such rare
occasion to have structure fires that they don't know if they
will use them at all. The fourth department, I didn't talk
to. So, I think I can conclude from that that we're not
getting $350,000 worth of value out of that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think the point, more
than that, is that if the City -- if the City really wants to
look at it like that, the City's getting far more benefit from
the volunteer fire departments than the --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Oh, yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- County's getting from Kerrville
Fire Department.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: From a backup standpoint. And
if the City wants an interlocal agreement to reflect that, I
don't see any problems. The volunteers are doing it anyway,
as long as there's no mandates in it.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's what my fire
department guys say, is, "Why would you pay for that? It's a
common protocol; we all back each other up. We'll go out of
county, we'll go in to help somebody, and we always do." And
they monitor -- monitor tone-outs, and if Ingram thinks that
Hunt's got a situation where they might need some help, they
just --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They go.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- don't even wait to be
asked.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can't report similarly,
because I didn't get ahold of Danny Smith at Center Point, but
~ I'm going to try to get hold of him tonight or tomorrow
morning and ask him the same questions.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a real good
solution. Possibly put a -- I don't know how they work the
logistics, if you want to have it -- if there's a -- I think
you need to have a substation in Kerrville South, though. You
don't want to have to rely on Ingram trucks getting to
Kerrville South. You need to have a substation down there.
Then, administratively, they're -- they work through Center
Point or Ingram.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would, perhaps, satisfy
Commissioner Baldwin's concern.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Hunt has been real
successful in getting other people's money. They've got --
they've really changed in the last five or six years to a
large fleet. They now have two substations, one in Cypress
Springs, --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- one across the road from
me. They'd be one of the other fire departments to consider.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think another really good
one is Turtle Creek. I mean, they're --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're good.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're in need of -- of
funding, it appears to me, and volunteers. But if we were --
we were funding a person, that we would really -- might kick
off the fire department. That's really the logical location.
And if they could rely closely and have a good working
relationship, either administratively, or just between Center
Point and Ingram as immediate backup, that may work, and just
have a -- you know, a small staff.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, actually talking about
that, the Kerrville South area is -- is Turtle Creek's
coverage area.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
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palsy-walsy stuff.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think it makes -- I mean,
it appears to me that the direction to go is to greatly reduce
the primary coverage area, if possible, that the City of
Kerrville is providing, and make it real clear that it's a
two-edged sword on this backup, and the City benefits more
than the County under the current situation. And if they want
to start paying for that, we'll be glad to give them the bill.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well said. Well said,
Commissioner. I'll have a report for us maybe Monday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've got to get going.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else, gentlemen?
We'll stand adjourned.
(Budget workshop adjourned at 4:40 p.m.)
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STATE OF TEXAS ~
COUNTY OF KERR ~
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my
capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court
of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place
heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of
August, 2006.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY: _ _ ________ ____________
Kath Banik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
7-19-06 bwk