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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Budget Workshop
Friday, July 28, 2006
9:11 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4
(Present from mid-morning recess on)
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
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I N D E X
July 28, 2006
PAGE
Review and discuss various matters with respect to	
FY 2006-07 Budget and matters having budgetary impact,	
including but not limited to the following matters	
and/or the consideration of budgets for the following	
departments:	
County Clerk	4
County Court at Law	36
Juvenile Probation	41
Adult Probation	44
District Clerk	47
Justice of the Peace 1, 2, 3, 4	93
Constable 1, 2, 3, 4	119
County Attorney	132
County Auditor	145
County Treasurer	149
Facilities and Maintenance	152
Other matters	161
Adjourned 190
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the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: I will convene a workshop -- call to
order a budget workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court
scheduled for this time and date, Friday, July 28, 2006, at
9 a.m. It is past that time now. Are there any holdover
items that any member of the Court wishes to discuss before we
get into the items on our scheduled workshop?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Holdover items? You mean
from other -- other topics we didn't finish?
JUDGE TINLEY: And want to go back into now, or we
want to go back to them later. I'm sure there's a lot of them
we're going to have to go back to later, but --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if we're going to come
back to -- and I'm sure we are -- fire services, fire service
contract, I'll report on my meeting with the Center Point
Volunteer Fire Department at that time.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think several of the elected
officials or department heads are here, and they're kind of
depending upon this schedule as it's -- Judge Brown?
JUDGE BROWN: I just -- Jannett's going to have an
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agenda item for the County Clerk getting two new employees.
I've got to go get a chiropractor adjustment here at 9:30, and
I just want to support that -- her recommendation, because I
know it's very badly needed. You just have to be there to see
the workload that they handle, and we're always short-handed,
especially on Tuesdays, when we're trying to process all these
people on Tuesdays when we have our criminal docket. So, I
just want to put my two cents in. I think it would be
something that you really ought to seriously look at, 'cause I
think it's very badly needed to get two more employees for the
County Clerk's office. That's all I got to say.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge Brown, let me ask you a
question. We've had several people come through here and
basically have proved to me about the growth in our county.
Do you see an increase in your business?
JUDGE BROWN: Oh, yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean --
JUDGE BROWN: Big-time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- related to growth in the
JUDGE BROWN: I would say that's what it's -- it has
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE BROWN: Plus a lot more civil cases. But the
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MR. EMERSON: Five, six pages.
JUDGE BROWN: Yeah, five or six pages of jail
docket. We filled up almost the whole side of the courtroom
with jailbirds last Tuesday. And it's getting that way more
and more. And we're -- we're trying to address that with the
District Judges and the Sheriff, and we're all working on a
plan to do something about that right now. But, you know, it
is -- yeah, the -- as the growth comes, here comes more --
more volume, higher volume.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE BROWN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE BROWN: Thank y'all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to the County Clerk
budget, if we might. It's under Number 3, I believe.
MS. PIEPER: Well, gentlemen, you heard the biggest
concern I have from Judge Brown, and that's getting two more
deputies for my office. I would like to point out that when
Pat Dye was clerk, she had more deputies than I do, because my
staff had been cut.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who had more deputies?
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MS. PIEPER: Pat Dye when she was the clerk. So,
I'm working with less deputies than what she had.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that shows you've done
a good job. That means you can keep on doing a good job.
MS. PIEPER: But because of the growth, we can't
keep it, and I've tried to figure out how I can combine my
mental health and probate deputy, trying to get one of those
to help the County Court at Law, but because we have the front
counter work that both of them do, there's no way that I can
combine those duties to free up one of the deputies there.
It's just -- my deputies are just getting maxed out in work in
all departments in my office.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why two? Why not seven? Why
I not eleven?
MS. PIEPER: Because I think I can do it efficiently
I with two.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do what?
MS. PIEPER: Run my County Court at Law. And in
addition to that, I'm hoping that one of those people can also
help me in elections, 'cause our elections are just horrible.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, elections is not a
year-round thing, though.
MS. PIEPER: No, but -- well, when you consider that
we've got that -- that because of the HAVA, and I'm the only
one that has the election equipment, I have all the cities, I
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MS. PIEPER: I have primaries.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think you need to --
you need to convince us that two people are going to stay
busy. I mean, I --
MS. PIEPER: Oh, they're swamped right now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The two people that we
haven't hired yet?
MS. PIEPER: No. My County Court at Law section is
swamped. I have --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, one person is not going
to answer the problem?
MS. PIEPER: No. And from what I heard this morning
from my administrator that works in County Court at Law, she
was told that in the works, as Judge Brown had just spoke -- I
just heard of it the first time today; one of the things that
they're trying to resolve is possibly holding court out at the
jail three times a week. Well, if that's the case, I'm going
to have to have a deputy that can go out there three times a
week so that they can be able to file in the cases.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same deputy, right? The
same one that works there. Same one that works County Court
at Law now would go.
MS. PIEPER: I have four that work County Court at
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at the jail if -- if this transpires as to what they're
talking about. And then on -- in that case, I'm going to also
have to have mileage for them.
MR. TROLINGER: If it's okay, Jannett, maybe I can
pipe in a little bit on County Court at Law. I've spent a lot
of time, I'd say, analyzing, almost, how things happen on a
Tuesday and the preparation and the post work that goes on,
and it almost seems to me that what Linda Uecker's doing with
the judges and -- and getting the -- and getting out to the
jail to -- to sort of pre -- I don't know what the wording
is -- pre-process a lot of the people that show up on Tuesdays
in County Court at Law would take a lot of load off. But the
growth and the volume, it's just huge, and it's pure chaos on
Tuesdays in that courtroom. And when they get to their
afternoon docket, they're always short-handed. So, I've
definitely seen that. And even with the level of automation
-- the County Court at Law is at the top of the pyramid as far
as automating with Odyssey and taking advantage of the tools
available. They're still overwhelmed.
MS. PIEPER: And you can -- you know about elections
too, how overwhelming that is.
MR. TROLINGER: That's -- that's months in advance
~ when you start working on that.
MS. PIEPER: I do.
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MR. TROLINGER: Started working on it two months
MS. PIEPER: Right. The last Commissioners Court
meeting is when we had to appoint the judges and alternates,
and then the Judge, two days ago, had to sign off 40 notices
of appointment and stuff. I mean, so we do start months in
advance, even though our election is not until November.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Mr. Trolinger?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Of the counties our size,
we're the most expensive. Of counties our size, we got the
most employees. Counties our size have fewer employees in
their Clerk's office than we do. Can you explain how that can
I be?
MR. TROLINGER: As far as number of people that
handle County Court at Law? I don't know if those are
separated from the clerk's functions in the counties you
looked at, but, you know, that might be one explanation, where
you've got a separate -- a separate department. I don't know.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trolinger, on the -- this new
software package that we put into place, the Odyssey system,
is that fully implemented in the County Clerk's office?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Are -- are all personnel in the
Clerk's office utilizing that technology to the maximum extent
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MR. TROLINGER: I'd say County Court at Law is very
close on that. I think we've got some more pieces where we're
waiting for, on the Software Group side, the new features and
benefits that are going to make it better. But as far as what
they've got right now, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: You think they're pretty well using
the maximum benefits available from that technology?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: That are available and in place now?
MR. TROLINGER: There are a couple things that-are
going to streamline the paperwork that they handle on court
day, but other than that, just new features that are added as
we go along. But currently, what they've got, they're using.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Madam Clerk, are all of your
~ deputies full-time now?
MS. PIEPER: Yes -- well, I have two part-time that
come out of Records Management, but that's all they do is
records management, and by law, that's all they are allowed to
do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we zeroed out your
part-timers last time and gave you another half clerk to make
a full-time.
MS. PIEPER: No, my half clerk is in Records
Management, and that money's coming out of that particular
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would you put two
deputies if you got them?
MS. PIEPER: I'd have to probably bring in one desk,
and maybe I could fit one at the front counter at the end.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are all of your deputies, in
terms of their responsibilities, maxed out? They can't handle
any more workload?
MS. PIEPER: Yes, that's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everyone?
MS. PIEPER: Everyone.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Every single one.
JUDGE TINLEY: What about the cross-training
function there in your office? Are all of them that have been
there a year or more pretty well cross-trained?
MS. PIEPER: Within different departments. I don't
have -- my probate deputy is not cross-trained in, like, my
County Court at Law. I mean, she could probably do a little
bit of it, but not -- she's not fully trained, no. I mean,
no -- to answer that question, no, because I don't -- we don't
have time -- like, my mental health deputy or my probate
deputy, we don't have time to cross-train them in that,
because the girls in County Court at Law have trouble stopping
long enough to train them. I mean, they can show them bits
and pieces of it, and they try to assist when they can, but --
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and then they have their own work that they've got to keep up.
with.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- how long have you been
I a Clerk?
MS. PIEPER: Since '99.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Public official.
MS. PIEPER: Since 1999.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Can you tell me how
long that is? That's seven years.
MS. PIEPER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seven years. And when you
took over, there was one more employee in your office than
there is today?
MS. PIEPER: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we -- so we've gone down
one, and the workload is --
MS. PIEPER: Has increased.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is -- let me --
MS. PIEPER: Okay, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- do my talk, and then you
can talk. The workload has increased by -- we don't know how
much, but by what everybody's talking about, a tremendous
amount. So, it seems to me that, you know, thinking like
Commissioner 4 thinks, that we're overloaded, overstaffed and
overpaid, and I can't remember -- whatever.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Not overpaid.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not overpaid, but compared to
other counties, we -- we spend way too much money. It seems
to me, in the seven or eight years, and the growth in the
county, it just seems to me that we have caught up. I mean,
we're in -- we're in a place to where we really need to focus
on -- on either leaving you alone about having too big of an
i
office, or allow you to get some employees. I don't know;
maybe we can compromise here and do one. I mean, I would -- I
think you probably need two. I don't know. I don't know
that.
MS. PIEPER: Well, I tried to compromise with the
Court for the last several years.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- don't get off in that.
I So, I'm thinking that you need two, and I don't know that --
that there would be three votes at the table to get you two,
so you may want to compromise and say I'll settle for one.
Otherwise, you may not get any. I'm just telling you how the
gang works here.
MS. PIEPER: I always try to work with the Court,
and if that's my choice, then I don't have a choice. I will
settle for one. I mean, any help I can get is wonderful.
We've been utilizing community service workers. We have
received some good ones, and then there's some that we've had
to go back and redo their work. We've also utilized the
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internship at Schreiner, and the girl that we have this
semester, she's really good, but today's her last day.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think she'd really be happy
I with one.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think so?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Just --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't leave the podium.
Mr. Trolinger, join Ms. Pieper at the podium, if you will. I
thought the Court was given to understand that the acquisition
and implementation of the new Odyssey system was going to
really benefit the County Clerk's office in terms of
productivity so that we wouldn't have to cross this particular
issue again for a while. What would be your response?
MR. TROLINGER: If the -- if the number of court
cases go up, it's inevitable that you need more people to
process them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're only speaking
one element of the Clerk's office.
MR. TROLINGER: And that's -- I thought that's .what
this addressed, was that County Court at Law.
MS. PIEPER: It's basically addressing County Court
at Law.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're telling me you
need two deputies more to handle County Court at Law?
MS. PIEPER: That is correct. And I hope to be able
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to utilize one employee off and on during elections when I
need. If I just get one employee, there will be no way that I
can utilize that one employee to help in County Court at Law
and elections as well. But I'm hoping, with two, that I would
be able to get some help. My chief deputy racked up so much
overtime during elections, and I just had to give her comp
time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many people do you
assign to County Court at Law now?
MS. PIEPER: I have four working in County Court at
I Law.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many?
MS. PIEPER: Four.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four?
MS. PIEPER: But County Court at Law is the
criminal, the civil, and the juvenile. So I have one deputy
that is designated, and her main duty is the criminal. Of
course, the other -- the other three assist her, because
there's so many cases. And then I have one that her main duty
is civil, but, of course, she assists with -- I don't know how
to explain it to make you understand, but I have four people
in there that do criminal, civil, and juvenile.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Constitutional duty?
MS. PIEPER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Four. Just the County Court
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explain that, yes, we do have --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you had Judge Brown in
here. That's a good -- I don't know if you need the County
Attorney; we've already heard the County Court at Law Judge.
MS. PIEPER: If we can't keep up with him, then --
MR. EMERSON: Yes, I can tell you the case load is
up between 10 and 20 percent.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 to 20 percent.
MR. EMERSON: In County Court at Law. And we've
slowed down. We've slowed down our procedures to reduce our
end of the docket so as not to drown the Clerk's office. We
actually have a little additional capacity. We could move
faster, but we can't outstrip our support.
JUDGE TINLEY: The -- are you not right now moving
more cases through than are actually being filed?
MR. EMERSON: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: So you're actually staying ahead of
the filing, and the additional cases you're disposing of
are -- are working on the backlog?
MR. EMERSON: Correct. Last numbers I saw, we were
right at 104 percent, so we're moving about 4 percent more
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than were being filed.
JUDGE TINLEY: And do you have any idea what the
backlog is?
~ MR. EMERSON: Outstanding cases, the last time I
looked, I think there were 1,957.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many?
MR. EMERSON: 1,957 open cases.
JUDGE TINLEY: Does that include current as well
as -- as backlog?
MR. EMERSON: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What portion of that would be
backlog? Do you have any idea?
MR. EMERSON: I don't know, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. EMERSON: I can tell you that our cases that go
to jury trial historically are about a year and a half old
before they make it to trial.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's not highly unusual, I don't
suppose. I suspect upstairs they're probably in excess of two
years before they actually get before a jury, a lot of them a
good deal more than that. My point is, if we're already
making -- disposing of more cases, even with the increased
case load, than -- than are currently being filed, number one,
that's an anomaly probably from most places across the state,
that you're not increasing your backlog. I haven't looked at
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the O.C.A. numbers, but I suspect that this is an anomaly.
And depending upon how many are backlogged, if you're slowly
eroding away there, hopefully, if those numbers hold over some
period of time, you're going to have that backlog wiped out
and you're going to have to throttle back, because without
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. I can't disagree with what
I
you're saying at all. All I'm saying is that my office has
more capacity than what we're currently utilizing, but we
can't outstrip our support.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, sure. I appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pat, that is an excellent
argument. I've been looking for an argument against it all,
and that is a great one. But I tell you guys, we're going to
have to come to the realization of the growth in this county.
And I know -- I know -- I mean, I've been on really, really
tightwad Commissioners Courts before, and I understand all
that, but I -- I mean, we really have to -- whether we fund
this request or not, we really have to come to the realization
that we're growing like crazy.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, I don't have any quarrel
with that at all. I know we have.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You sure?
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increase in productivity, and that by reason of new technology
and software. Apparently, that hasn't happened.
MS. PIEPER: Well, and it's possible that if our
software had not had so many bugs in it, it wouldn't have put
us quite as far behind. Once the County Attorney files his
disposition, we're not through with that case. I mean, I
don't know what he has to do on his end, but, you know, once
we put our file stamp on that disposition case, then we have
to do the CJIS and we have to do the DIC-17's. We have all
these kind of forms, and we have to distribute copies and we
have to do the data entry. I mean, so it doesn't stop with
just the -- you know, him bringing us a disposition. But
because of some of the bugs in the computer as well, we have
one file alone that is this thick with nothing but the CJIS
forms that they're working the bugs out. So, not only are we
trying to go forward, but we're still trying to play backup
from that stuff. And I have 87 pages of documents that -- and
I don't know how many; there's 25 or 30 names on -- cases on
each page of 87 pages that have errors on it from the
conversion from the Legacy to the Odyssey that I've got to
straighten out before my monthly report gets straightened out
on a regular basis. And my girls in County Court at Law does
not have time to do that, so I've tried to take on that duty.'
But right now, I've got elections I'm working on, so I'm
having trouble doing those. I got about 10 of them out of the
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87 pages done; I've got 10 cases, not 10 pages. But I'm
swamped, too. I mean, we're just all swamped, but it's hard
for us to take on any duties.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to say it again.
Eight years ago, we had more employees than we do today, and
the growth, maybe 10 to 20 percent in cases and workload and
that kind of thing. That doesn't compute, to me. It seems
that we need to open our minds that this thing is getting out.
of hand, and we need to -- and it's not just you. You're one
of -- I mean, almost everybody that has been in here has said
the same thing.
MS. PIEPER: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's the first time in my
17 or 18 years that I've heard everybody say the same thing,
so I don't --
MS. PIEPER: Now, and it could be possible that in a
couple of years, when all the bugs are worked out and we're
caught up with all the cases, then we can lessen the amount of
employees, but right now I need them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, right.
MS. PIEPER: I mean, 'cause I -- I'm open to that as
well. My girls are beyond swimming. It's to the point to
where they're sinking now and they need help.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We may have to recess.
25 ~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a problem? We're
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having an emergency here?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Kathy, did you get my
MS. MITCHELL: I took it, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: As I'm sure everybody understands,
downsizing is a whole lot tougher than upsizing.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: And it gets to be a -- even in an
at-will employment environment, it ain't that easy. I don't
want to keep Ms. Pieper from being able to perform the
functions that she's required to perform, but I think we need
to proceed slowly and catch up with this growth in increments,
possibly. I think your comments earlier, Commissioner
Baldwin, might -- might be subject to consideration.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, I'm thinking that
Commissioner Baldwin is surely correct that the county's
growing. I don't think it's a whole lot faster rate than it
has been in the past, but certainly --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Steady.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And then, if we look at it
from our aggregate economic viewpoint, the revenues available
to the County are growing all the time 'cause of more people
and higher valuations, but at least last year, and perhaps
again this year, our spending is out -- outstripping the
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revenues, so it's almost a catch-22. If we're growing and
property's more valuable, why can't -- why don't we have
enough money to pay for additional staff?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. This is the tough
time of the year. Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: There were a couple of other items
that we had discussed on your budget, Ms. Pieper.
MS. PIEPER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: On your employee training, I had -- I
had cut that in half. Based on our discussions, you wanted
that restored, and the basis for that was primarily because
you use that as also training-slash-conference moneys for your
deputies?
MS. PIEPER: That is correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: For things they must attend. And
that your conference money was mainly just for you, and maybe
your chief deputy?
MS. PIEPER: Well, my chief deputy --
JUDGE TINLEY: Or actually just you, as I recall.
MS. PIEPER: Just me, that is correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause you go to three or four
conferences a year.
MS. PIEPER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I believe you told me four,
actually, and one of them comes out of the Elections budget.
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MS. PIEPER: That is correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. PIEPER: And my chief deputy comes out of the
employee training.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you go to a conference;
the chief deputy goes with you?
MS. PIEPER: Most of the time, yes, if -- if things
in the office permit.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you want the 1,500
I restored?
MS. PIEPER: Yes, I do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: The other item that we discussed was
Books, Publications, and Dues. I annualized -- pulled that
off an annualization projected by the Auditor. Ms. Pieper
tells me that since that occurred, she's had to do a budget
amendment, 'cause she's exceeded her -- her budget allocation
for this year, and that amendment is over 300. So, that's why
she wants that one restored; is that correct?
MS. PIEPER: That is correct, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Did I peg that one? All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 300 or 345?
JUDGE TINLEY: 345. She's already over 300 this
year with the budget amendment.
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MS. PIEPER: Also, gentlemen, I put in for 400 hours
of overtime. Several of my deputies, because of elections,
has got in numerous hours of overtime, and I've been giving
them comp time, but I really don't think that's legal, because
then they haven't had a chance to take that comp time off.
So, that -- that kind of worries me. I mean, they don't mind
i
having the comp time. Of course, it's hard for them to take
that comp time, but I think we're -- and I don't know the laws
on this; that's why it kind of worries me. But I think we
need to put money in there to pay them. I think my chief
deputy has, like, over 200 hours of comp time. And --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't generally carry
comp time over from one budget year to the next, so if you've
got outstanding comp time, it needs to be worked out, if at
all possible, or has to be paid out.
MS. PIEPER: That's why I want it in the budget,
because I don't have money in my budget to pay it out.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much do you have
outstanding right now?
MS. PIEPER: Truthfully, I don't know; I haven't
looked recently. But I think if we include 400 hours worth of
comp time in my next budget, then I think we'll be okay. And
hopefully we won't use it, but just in case.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Comp time is paid out at
time and a half?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, at current rates.
MS. PIEPER: And I do have this figured at time and
a half for -- for my chief deputy and one of my
administrators. And this is -- this is basically due to the
elections, you know, at night when we're up here working.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wouldn't that better be
placed in your Elections budget?
MS. PIEPER: Yeah, we could do that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If that's what it's for? As
opposed to your regular budget.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you better ask Tommy
I that one.
MS. PIEPER: Tommy, can we do that?
' MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I have -- from a systems
standpoint, I would rather keep it in one place.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You've got a line item for
judges and clerks.
MR. TOMLINSON: That's not for our employees.
I That's for --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Outside?
MR. TOMLINSON: Outside.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. PIEPER: That's for our early voting workers and
our election day workers.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Got another issue on that one with
FICA, if I'm not mistaken. First six under it is -- we don't
have to be responsible for FICA, and then thereafter, we have
to -- okay.
MS. PIEPER: So, is it the census that I can include
that in my budget?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm okay with it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Moving on down, the Operating
Equipment, I -- I moved those to Capital Outlay, but those are
recommended by the I.T. Manager. See where they're noted
I there?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: I moved those to Capital Outlay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $2,800?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. PIEPER: Are we going to -- is there any other
questions, gentlemen, that y'all have on that general budget?
JUDGE TINLEY: I think that covers it. On the
Election Services, that brings us to that FICA issue. I did
not put in a number initially, but --
MS. PIEPER: Mindy Williams from the Auditor's
office is the one that brought that law to my attention. And
because we have -- we had a primary in March that I had early
voting workers in that worked for two weeks, and then I've got
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workers coming in in November. That's within the calendar
year, and by law, we have to pay those workers -- because
they're going to make over that 600 mark, we have to pay them
FICA. Now, the ones that will be working --
JUDGE TINLEY: Next spring.
MS. PIEPER: -- in November, election day, did not
fall in that category, because even if they worked in the
March -- last March primary, they were paid through the
primary parties -- the political parties, not us. So --
that's how she explained it to me. So, this is just basically
for the early voting workers that were -- that we have to pay
the FICA on.
JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line is, we carry that $2,000
over. Next item, the Ballot Expense, after discussion with
Jannett and looking at what she had in upcoming elections, we
reduced that to 6,000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which?
JUDGE TINLEY: The Ballot Expense.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Next item, Employee Training. Here
again, we're back to the issue we had before. She wants that
restored because of elections training. She comes -- hers is
750 down at the bottom, but her clerks are going to be out of
that 2,000. She doesn't think 1,000 is going to be enough.
MS. PIEPER: And normally I only send just my chief
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deputy with me to election conference, but I need to send my
administrator as well. The Secretary of the State is
implementing what they call TEAM, and it's a software that all
-- it's going to integrate every voter in the state of Texas,
so we're going to have to be trained on that. And I -- and
because my administrator and my chief deputy take care of what
they call the mail ballots and FPCA's and stuff like that,
they need to be trained in that software as well, because they
will be probably working with it -- one aspect of it more than
I will, and then I'll be working with a different aspect of
that software.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any more money forthcoming
from the great rainbow HAVA pot of gold?
MS. PIEPER: Yes. And I need to talk with John. He
and I haven't spoke yet, because I -- I just got back from
Austin last week on some election training. And, actually,
this training expenses, I'm going to submit for reimbursement
from HAVA, but I just need the County to fund it up front, and
then it can be replaced. And then I need to speak with John,
and -- and after I learn a little bit more information about
what is required, the software and a computer, if I have to
have an extra one, that will come from HAVA as well.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. In the form of
reimbursement?
MS. PIEPER: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is Signs? Fund 12.
MS. PIEPER: That's the handicapped parking and all
that that's required for our polling locations. And we
purchase them brand-new and send them out for one or two
elections for our election judges and clerks, and they come
back broke or whatever, parts missing. And I haven't replaced
-- you know, then that's when we use the duct tape and
whatever. But it's getting to the point they're getting too
old and too brittle, and I just --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can you use duct tape on the
clerk situation?
MS. PIEPER: Wish I could. But it's -- they're
getting -- it's getting to the point to where I don't have
enough per polling location. So the signs -- whenever I
contract to hold elections with other entities, we get
10 percent of their budget, and that money can only be used
for election supplies. It cannot be used for -- to pay
election judges or clerks or whatever, just supplies itself.
And I would like to use that money to buy me some new signs.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this signage something
that comes down out of Austin, or things you have to have done
here? Do you purchase them from some central source, or are
these things you have made up here, the signage?
MS. PIEPER: I go with the cheapest vendor I can
find.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. PIEPER: I mean, it's the law that we have them,
but I use the cheapest vendor I can find.
JUDGE TINLEY: We actually reduced that item, over
on the far right-hand side, to 3,000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. PIEPER: And this Fund 12, we're possibly going
to get anywhere from $3,500 to $4,500 back in it, because I'm
doing the Headwaters election. Their trustees or directors,
or whatever they're called, will be placed on the bottom of
our November ballot. So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And the annual
license would be your Odyssey license? Is that what we're
talking about?
MS. PIEPER: No, that is the -- that is the software
that allows me to print out the report from the election day
process that it -- the reports that y'all canvass from. And I
found out last week during Austin, we are no longer called a
central counting station, because all the votes are tallied
out at the individual precincts. Because of our election
equipment, we are now called the central reporting station;
therefore, we don't have to have what they call the tabulating
supervisors and the assistant supervisors and the managers
that we normally used to have to have. So, that's one good
aspect.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you still count them here?
MS. PIEPER: No, sir. Whenever you put --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They walk in from the
precinct and say, "Here's the numbers"?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Give them a disk, huh?
MS. PIEPER: Yes, it's called an M.B.B. Yes, it is
a disk, like. And because it's already tallied on that, all
we do is upload that disk.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Those just compile all of
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you should have the
results by 7:30.
MS. PIEPER: The minute they bring us the -- the
disk, then we upload it and print reports, and we -- we get
out of here pretty good -- pretty reasonable now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. PIEPER: But there is an annual license on that
of $8,810.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Records
Management. There's one modification there. On Microfilm
Storage, the monthly cost is 162, so the 1,800 won't cover it.
That's restored back to 2,000.
MS. PIEPER: Also, on my plat cabinet, my chief
deputy left me a message that -- the 3,000 quote here was just
off the top of my head, to try to remember what we had paid
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prior. Actually, the cabinet itself is $4,250, and the
shipping is 475, for a total of $4,725. And I desperately
need one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- what are you
calling a plat cabinet?
MS. PIEPER: All these plats that get filed --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that the cabinet back
against the wall over there that hangs?
MS. PIEPER: Yes. I have six of them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the new cost?
MS. PIEPER: It's $4,725.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 4,725.
MS. PIEPER: We tried to order one last year, but it
came in all bent up and everything, and it's been a big ordeal
trying to collect on that portion of it.
JUDGE TINLEY: You mean we paid for it and we
haven't got the money back yet? .
MS. PIEPER: I'm not sure where we're at on it,
between my chief deputy and Mindy in the Auditor's office.
But this is what the initial cost was going to be, so I was
going to be under budget as well on that. So, that was kind
of a blessing, that that way we wouldn't have to do a budget
amendment and try to figure out where the money was going to
come from. But it's getting to the point to where I'm going
to have to -- unless we get a cabinet pretty quick, we're just
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going to have to store the plats flat until I can get one in.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you know anything about that,.
Mr. Tomlinson?
MR. TOMLINSON: I knew it was returned. I don't
know where we are on it, the issue of --
JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, if we didn't get
what we paid for, we ought not be out the money.
MR. TOMLINSON: I know that there's an issue. I
don't know whether we have the money back or not. I have to
ask.
JUDGE TINLEY: When you say you don't know whether
we have the money back, that means we did pay for it? .
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, we did.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. PIEPER: I believe we do. But -- I mean, 'cause
my chief deputy hasn't said anything else about it.
MR. TOMLINSON: What did you say about the Microfilm
Storage line item?
JUDGE TINLEY: That was restored to 2,000, because
the monthly cost is 162.
MR. TOMLINSON: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's fixed cost, and so 1,800
wouldn't cover it. I was working off the 1,600 projection as
being total annual cost. Obviously, that was erroneous.
Okay.
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MS. PIEPER: So, can I find my plat cabinet,
gentlemen? Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I tell you what, I want an
explanation on the other one, on last year.
MS. PIEPER: My chief deputy is out today. I can --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would not vote to spend
another penny until I knew where last year's money is. I
won't.
MS. PIEPER: Okay, I'll find out and let you know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is she the one that knows all
that stuff?
MS. PIEPER: Between her and Mindy, yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I bet you Mindy will
know.
MS. PIEPER: One of my chief deputies is keeping the
supplies in the office, and so when it come in bent -- or --
well, actually, I think the wrong one came in, because our -- i
she had made a comment that our plats wouldn't fit into that
cabinet that came in. But I'll find out and let you know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I think that pretty well
covers yours, doesn't it?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One clarification. All the
salary costs we're looking at are pre-COLA, right?
JUDGE TINLEY: Some of them that are plugged in by
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the elected official are post-COLA, some are pre-COLA. My
recommendation is that you not rely upon what's in that first'
one, unless -- you could probably tell by looking that they're
the same as last year. They do not include the longevity or
-- or the educational upgrades.
MS. PIEPER: I just plugged in the same figures as
last year.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm thinking that the
Election Services budget last year was an anomaly, because we
had the Help America Vote. But I'm looking at '03-'04 actual
and '04-'05 actual. 16,000, 34,000, and now 52,000. That's
really a rapid acceleration of election costs. What's
happening to drive costs up at that rate, three times what it
was three years ago?
MS. PIEPER: HAVA.
MR. TROLINGER: Electronic voting equipment and
software.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, what I see is that
'02-'03, judges and clerks cost 7,700. '04-'05, 17,000, and
now 20,000, so that's up three times.
MS. PIEPER: Well, back then we only had 16 polling.
locations. During the redistricting, they added. We now have
20 polling locations, and we have at least five election
'I workers in each polling location.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The amount of reimbursement
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we're getting from other tax -- government entities, is it
MS. PIEPER: That we're receiving from other
JUDGE TINLEY: From the City.
MS. PIEPER: No. Basically, the only thing the City
is doing is renting our machines. And then, because we are
the holders of the machines, then when it comes to the logic
and accuracy testing and predefining and the zeroing and all
that, my staff does it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Big increase.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: From 16,000 to 52,000. And
it's not -- it's not HAVA. HAVA's paid for.
MS. PIEPER: I think years back, too, during early
voting, we didn't have to have as many election workers during
early voting, but because now we have anywhere from 500 to
1,000 a day come in to vote, then I've got to have the staff.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for the clerk?
Let's move to County Court at Law, under Tab 5. Judge Brown's
message to me was, "I'll do the best I can, and if I run out
of money, I'm going to come ask you for some more, and it'll
be legitimate." Which is the basic philosophy you need to
have. By way of information, the only thing Judge Brown
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specifically mentioned to me had to do with attorney's fees on
his criminal side. I reduced that slightly, but on the civil
side, I increased it. And I did so because of the -- the
numbers that you see that they're running. Actually, if you
annualize the civil side, the master court appointments,
you've got almost $29,000 for approximately the first six
months. That will annualize out to about $56,000, $58,000, so
I increased that slightly over what he was asking for. But on
his criminal side, I reduced it slightly.
MR. TOMLINSON: What was that amount?
JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon?
MR. TOMLINSON: What are those amounts?
JUDGE TINLEY: On the court appointments, 43.
Master, 53. Did you not get a copy of it after I did my --
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- little stuff here? Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I was reading through
his notes, and master court appointments, they say that
they're increasing this particular line item by 10,000, but
that's not what you're saying, and it's not what I see on the
front .
JUDGE TINLEY: My recommendation ended up being
20,000, as you -- as you can tell.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no, I can't tell that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, current budget is 33.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see what you're saying,
JUDGE TINLEY: And I increased it to 53, but I did
that based upon year-to-date expenditures of just under 29,000
that you can see. And we generally run at least 30 days.
behind, which means that's going to be through March, or six
months. If we double that figure, you're going to get
$58,000.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I must be looking at
something different than the rest of y'all. Where are we in
the book?
JUDGE TINLEY: Under 5.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me how he can decrease
Court-Appointed Attorneys and then increase Master Court
Appointments and -- and that makes it okay. I don't get that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, those are my numbers that are
plugged in.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, his recommendation is
to do that, is to decrease the Court-Appointed Attorney.
JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, based on current year's
budget, he plugged that in for the same amount. He did
increase significantly the master court appointments. A
disproportionate number of those civil C.P.S. cases, master
25 ~ court appointments, are being charged to his budget, as
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opposed to the 216th at and 198th court budget. And -- and
I'm merely looking at -- I'm merely looking at how those
pay-outs are running this year under year-to-date columns.
And if you annualize those figures, you annualize the
court-appointed attorneys, you're looking at about 36,5; you
double that 18,210. And, of course, on the -- on the master
court appointments, that comes out to about 58 if you
annualize that one.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the Commissioner's
right, Judge. There's a little confusion in what the numbers.
show on the sheet versus what Judge Brown's synopsis says. He
talks about decreasing Line 402 by 8, and then he says this 8
plus 9 more is being requested in Line 403. Well, that's
17,000; 8 plus 9 is 17. I don't see that 17 -- where do I see
that 17,000 increase? Oh, over 33? I see it now. 17 and 33
is 50. I got it, okay. I see it now. And you're raising it
to 53?
JUDGE TINLEY: Based upon actual year-to-date.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see.
JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, the net is -- is I'm
penalizing him one; dropping him two in one place, increasing
h.im three in another. Kind of a wash, but --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess the confusion is
that, really, in 402, there wasn't a drop of 8,000 in the
current budget. Current budget's 45; came back in at 45, and
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's where the
confusion is, at least it is on my end. Whatever.
MR. TOMLINSON: There's -- I think the confusion is
that on this worksheet, it shows what the current budget is.
The original budget was 45,000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
MR. TOMLINSON: So I think he's working off of the
original budget.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The current budget would be
the original budget as amended.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The current budget's 45?
MR. TOMLINSON: No, the original budget was 45.
It's been amended many, many times down to what it says the
current budget is now, which is -- I show -- I have -- I
printed mine out a month after you did, and the current budget
now in 403 is $34,793.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what I'm looking
at.
JUDGE TINLEY: What's he's been doing is robbing 402
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I
', JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's a pretty common offset. When
one runs short, they just go to the next one. They do that
upstairs in the district courts also.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: The other figures that I've made
adjustments on are under Court-Appointed Services, 401. I
reduced that to 350. And I did so because nothing's been
spent this year. I reduced Special Judge to 1,000, because in
annualizing that figure, it would be considerably less than
1,500. The next one down, which is Telephone, annualizing
that, I dropped that to 500. Statement of Facts I dropped to
250, again, because of the amount expended this year. This is
~! primarily for the Auditor's benefit; apparently, he doesn't
have a copy of what I've done up here. Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okey-dokey.
JUDGE TINLEY: Juvenile Probation, move to 18. I
had Ms. Mitchell give you a copy of what the Juvenile Board
approved last week. Actually, I think it's the same as -- as
what you've already had. I would note on those that the --
the 4.2 COLA is included. The roll-ups are calculated based
on those COLA's being included. The major increase that you
see is going to be on 482, Alternate Housing. Significant
increase. That's as a result of looking at the year-to-date
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actual. If you use that figure, it'll scare you to death,
'cause it'll come out about a little over 250,000 if you
annualize that figure.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you analyze 145? Or the.
I one --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the budget of 145, but
year-to-date for the first six months is 127, so if you
annualize that one, you're over 250.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thus the major increase from -- from
145 over to 170.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're saying -- or what
I'm hearing you say is that your plans are to send less
youngsters out of county.
JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't know that it means that
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good try.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know that it means that at
all. What it means is -- is that the -- anything that's
charged to the Alternate Housing costs, be it short-term or
long-term, based upon what we've spent so far this year, the
127,000 in the first six months, that's an indication that 145
ain't going to to be near enough. If you annualize that 127,
you're going to come out over 250,000.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand that. So,
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it's -- so you're recommending 145, though.
JUDGE TINLEY: 170.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Mine says 145.
MS. MITCHELL: I just gave it to you this morning,
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry. Of course.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got the new one here, 170.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the major increase and
the roll-ups. One or two items on there; some went down, some
went up. Okay. Anything else there?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I want to resurrect
the plan to combine the Chief Probation Officer job with the
Director of the Juvenile Detention Facility, save about --
roll-up, $60,000 -- that would save about 75,000 a year or so.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, I'm with you.
If we had -- had any say-so -- I mean, I guess we could -- I
guess we could say no to this budget right here and do it that
way. I'd want to build some kind of little fence around me,
though, so I don't get hit by flying beer bottles, but -- if
we did that. But I think it's a nice thing to talk about.
Plus, your losing your snuff between the car and here has got
me a little upset.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We need to take a break.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do. We do. Poor Kathy.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We done for that one? We in a
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position to take a break?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We are.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take about a 15-minute recess.
(Recess taken from 10:12 a.m. to 10:30 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we
might. I should have pointed out, Commissioner Letz indicated ',
'~~
to me that he was committed to be somewhere. Okay. ~',
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He was committed to be
somewhere else?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess they just
uncommitted him.
JUDGE TINLEY: Either that, or he was going to sleep
late; I don't know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sleep late is more likely.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had such a big rain, I
couldn't get out of the ranch.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Glad you're here. We've
been spending money like drunken sailors.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We just increased the County
Clerk's office by six deputies.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's move to Adult Probation.
That's under tab 18 also. There's not much to wrangle about
in that one. All those costs are -- number one, are not too
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45
great, and number two, pretty well fixed.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This is our share of a
multi-county effort; is that right?
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: For the most part, Adult Probation
is self-sustaining. We are obligated to provide to them
certain --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- core items; that we give them a
place to hang their hat, which is the rent, and we've got to
provide for the utilities and maintenance and -- and things
like that. But other than that, that's about it. Otherwise,
they support themselves.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, we're -- oh, they're
supported by the fees they collect?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. So, this 62,000 or
whatever it is -- 46,000, that's just a small portion of their
total cost?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Oh, yes -- yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: How many --
JUDGE TINLEY: You don't see any salaries in there.
They've got, what, about 10 probation officers out there?
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MR. TOMLINSON: Their budget is close to a million
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Crime costs, doesn't it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, very expensive.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There's no -- we keep
looking for a way to use the excess capacity over at the
Juvenile Detention Facility. There's no way to reduce the
costs here by offering to let them office over there, is
9 there?
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there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rent --
JUDGE TINLEY: We wouldn't have enough space over
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To house Adult Probation in
the old building?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does, in fact.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On that -- while you mention
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm talking about the administrative
portion of it. Now, if we totally reconfigured the whole
building, you would, yeah. But you're talking about a
considerable expense to get it there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. At break, we were
talking about a dog hotel being needed in Kerrville. Maybe we
could turn that into a dog hotel, generate some real revenues.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Dog hotel?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It beats a library, Buster.
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that, though, when we were doing Commissioners Court, on the
-- probably Professional Services, something we may want to
think about adding there is several thousand to get an
analysis of what that building could be used for and what it
would cost to do some things to it. I mean, I don't see us
using it as a -- its intended function in the near future.
And we toss out these things all the time, and I think that
it's -- you know, we ought to get some idea of what it would
cost to do some of those.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wait till after next
Wednesday; I got a group coming up from Houston to take a look
at it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To buy it?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If somebody came along and
wanted to lease it or buy it, you'd be open to an offer?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just may get one.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll know more about it
next week.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to the District Clerk
under Tab 9.
MS. UECKER: Thirty seconds, huh? Did you look to
see what that -- what you had on the Capital Outlay item?
JUDGE TINLEY: Actually, I don't think I have any
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MS. UECKER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning.
MS. UECKER: Good morning. How are you?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. How are you?
MS. UECKER: Fine. Before I start with nickels, I
would like, if you don't mind, to give you kind of a status
report on what's happening in the office. In 2003, we had 705
criminal cases; 2004, 1,079; and 2005, 1,110. Now, that's
about a 30 percent increase in the last two years. Civil
cases in 2003, 1,298; 2004, 1425; 2005, 1816, which is greater
than that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What were your first three
numbers? Seven --
MS. UECKER: 705, 1,079, and 1,110. I can tell you
right now, gentlemen, we are very behind. We haven't even
been able to do our dismissal docket. I've got some -- a
college student that's working part-time doing some of the
grunt work, the copies, the deliveries and stuff like that.
Our biggest stress right now is the appellate. I've got a
6-foot wall that has five shelves. It is full of cases on
appeal. The problem that's causing me right now is, my poor
little Simona, that's already retired once and came back, is
doing the appeals. I hear rumblings that she's thinking about
retiring because she can't keep up with civil and do her
appeals. Having said that, I'm not asking for any more staff.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yea.
MS. UECKER: I'm not asking, because I feel
confident that once we get the bugs worked out of Odyssey,
that this is going to relieve some of the stress. I've been
working the courtroom. I've been doing criminal stuff. I've
been helping at the civil. I've been issuing passports. I've
been doing juries. So, as long as I can get in there and
help, then you know, I think it's all going to work itself
out. I would -- I don't know what you're going to do with
merit increases. I've got several that they'll stay after
5:00 or they'll come on Saturdays, and when I get their
timesheets, I go, "Okay, you didn't put your time down, your
-- you know, your comp time." "Well, no, I didn't ask you if
I could do it. I just wanted to get it done, so I just came
in so that I wouldn't have to look at it again on Monday."
So -- you know, and I don't know what you're going
to do about merits, but I do have a couple that, you know, I'd
like to consider. And I don't know -- one, I know who that
is. The other one, the way I -- I do that is when I do my
performance evaluations, I do it on a point basis. And they
know that the ones with the highest points are going to be
considered for merit increases. The 13 -- moving my 13's to a
step/grade 14's, as I had requested, is only going to impact
my budget for the next year $2,226. That's just for my
office. I know passports has been an issue of discussion in
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office.
MS. UECKER: 50,000 processing passports.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was the 13's to 14's?
MS. UECKER: $2,226 is going to be the difference.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you.
MS. UECKER: And that just impacts two people in my
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, when we talked about
passports one of the other years, there are some requirements
that you have to, you know, be bonded or -- I'm not sure what
it is.
MS. UECKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To be able to do it. Can that
-- is that something that's going to be readily done, or is it
something that is hard to get done? In other words, I know it
used to be done down here by our administrative assistant. Is
it -- what level, I guess -- I mean, what do you have to have
to be able to do that?
MS. UECKER: Well, number one, you have to be a fee
officer, because the statute provides that the District Clerk
can charge fees. Doesn't say it about anybody else. You
know, and I know Thea did them and she collected a fee. I
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don't -- that I know of, and whether or not that was legal, I
don't know. We do have to be certified. I have to send them
to school every once in a while for the updates. We have been
-- we've received certificates of acclaim for detecting
potential fraud cases. And -- but other than that, I think
the fee officer portion is the biggest issue.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And who -- what other county
people are fee officers? You're the only one listed as fee
officer?
MS.	UECKER:	The	County	Clerk, Probation Department;
the Sheriff's	Office.	Let'	s see.	I guess the County
Treasurer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MS. UECKER: And the County Tax Assessor/Collector.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- okay, several that deal
with money. So, everyone that deals with money.
MS. UECKER: Anybody that's authorized by statute to
receive funds. Okay. That's it. Any questions on that?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a question. One of
your opening comments was about -- oh, what is the term where
you give someone -- give them a -- a stipend for --
MS. UECKER: Merit?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A merit, excuse me. I
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MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You decide who you -- you
make a recommendation to the Commissioners Court, and the
Commissioners Court, in our infinite wisdom, would make the
decision who gets that. Isn't that what we had set up?
MS. UECKER: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we never adopted that
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We never did do that?
MS. UECKER: That policy was not adopted. And, you
know, I was opposed to it, because how the heck would a
commissioner -- County Commissioner know --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's where I'm at,
too.
MS. UECKER: -- who deserves a merit increase?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't want to do that.
MS. UECKER: Don't want to do that. In the past,
what you have done is you have put, like, two steps in the
budget for that elected official to decide whether or not --
you know, if you can give a merit increase -- you can give
them both to one person or you can split them, or you don't
have to give them at all. There's been times -- a couple of
times when I didn't give one at all. There's been a couple of
times -- no, just one time when I gave both steps to the same
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person. But that's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I think that program,
there was some folks on -- members of the Commissioners Court
that felt like that that had been abused.
MS. UECKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's why the
conversation went to where, "If you can't handle your own
office, we'll handle it for you."
MS. UECKER: "We'll handle it for you."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: However --
MS. UECKER: However.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: However, by by adopting the
new step and grade schedule, did we not provide for the
ability for a department head or elected official to give a
merit?
MS. UECKER: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: By reason of the half steps
we put in there?
MS. UECKER: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we did.
MS. UECKER: In my opinion, I know it --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we put it in their
budget?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they can do just what
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whatever, I mean, and the Court is -- either says yes or no.
I mean, obviously, I think you have to do it across the board.
I mean, you can't -- well, I guess you can let Linda give a
merit but nobody else, but I think it's more of a policy
issue. Adding the .5's in there -- I mean, potentially, I am.
kind of with Dave on that. I think we have too many
classifications already; we don't need to -- we didn't really
need to double them. And, in reality, we only needed to
probably add these in it to fit the Sheriff rather than to add
it all the way through. When you actually get through, it
makes more sense really to add it just where he needs them,
and maybe down the road try to eliminate those half steps as
it is, or half --
MS. UECKER: The half steps, to me, are -- that was
a waste of time. But, you know, that's just my opinion.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 2,226 difference for 13
to 14, is that built into your Line Item 104?
MS. UECKER: No. 'Cause there was -- no, 'cause
there was no amount. As a matter of fact, I just got the
proposed step and grade schedule this morning. I got the
salary schedule several days ago, and it was incorrect, so I
had to deal with that. But, no, I don't have any amounts on
the salaries at all. I just wanted to let you know that that
was going -- how it was going to impact my office. And I
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don't know how it's going to impact the Treasurer -- the Tax
Assessor or the County Clerk.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the merit --
distribution of merit moneys, you see, I -- I trust Ms. Uecker
to discriminate between excellent performance and average or
mediocre performance. I believe she does that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If anybody does it, she does
it.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, but I don't trust
I everybody to do that. And I know what happens. Well, the
National Education Association hates merit increases, because
they don't want to discriminate against poor performance. And
I've seen supervisors in the past that will take merit money,
and they -- they're unwilling to face up to -- to poor
performance, so they just give everybody their share of it.
MS. UECKER: Well, I know in the past -- you know,
and I was kind of shocked when the former County Attorney
said, "Well, if we get merit, I just give it to everybody."
And I said, "Well, you're the guy that screwed it up for all
of us," you know, basically. So --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We're -- that's water over
the bridge.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In fact, you're correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- but I think we go
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i
back to a policy issue, is that you give -- you can't give
every department the same, but either, you know, have some
sort of break of, you know, departments the size of the
District Clerk or County Clerk, they get two. The other ones
get one. You can't give everyone -- you have -- either have
to pick them out, or --
~I MS. UECKER: Well, probably the Tax Assessor and the
County Clerk and District Clerk may be two, and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The rest of them, one.
MS. UECKER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, maybe.
MS. UECKER: But, you know, that's just what I'd
I'm -- okay. Going to nickels.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. UECKER: Judge Tinley had reduced the Employee
Training from my requested 1,500 to 500. Last year, I spent
1,718. There again, that money is used for that passport
update training. I don't send everybody; I usually just send
a couple, and then they come back and we have to self-certify
the rest of them over the Internet. That's a small portion of
that. The rest of it is -- the big one that I do is the Texas
District Court Alliance, which I'm one of the founders of
that, and that is a very, very intense education. We work
through lunch. There's no B.S., there's no play, there's no
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vendors. There's nothing but just hitting it hard, hitting it
hard. And we do -- we give as many hours in a day and a half
as this other association does in four days, and everybody's
coming. The good news is it's going to be in Kerrville this
year, so -- and I always register all of my staff. It's.
cheap. Last year I had, you know, travel for them. I didn't
do everybody last year -- I take that back. I think I did
about a third of them. This year, I'm going to register
everyone, because they get a very -- when you register, you
get this very intense workbook, and they all use it all year
long, and it's just something that I think is real important.
And the -- and I know you're thinking, okay, your year-to-date
was zero, but that happens in September.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. UECKER: So, I'd ask that that be --
JUDGE TINLEY: How much are you going to spend in
September?
MS. UECKER: This year, probably just the 1,000,
'cause I'm not going to have room and board.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you want that moved up
to 1,000?
MS.	UECKER:	Yes.	At	least, yeah, if that's okay.
one	was the	-- let'	s	see. Next is --
25 ~ JUDGE TINLEY: Let me talk about the microfilming
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cost.
MS. UECKER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I have a question mark about that, as
you can see.
MS. UECKER: You did.
JUDGE TINLEY: You've been spending 6,000, 7,000,
~ $8, 000.
MS. UECKER: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: And we're suddenly looking at
~ $25,000?
MS. UECKER: Only because -- this would be, like, a
one-year deal. And I don't know if -- if that amount is
actually going to be enough to complete the project, but we're
moving completely away from using microfilm, and --
JUDGE TINLEY: Is this going all to C.D.'s? Is that
what that is?
MS. UECKER: Yeah, which that is working absolutely
beautiful. I think the County Clerk's looking at it now. I'd
like to finish that project. I think John could probably --
what?
JUDGE TINLEY: Can -- is there any way we can put
that in some of these dedicated funds that we can't use for
anything else, and keep it out of the general budget?
MS. UECKER: You can, yes. You can if the money's
there. I -- I am asking for 3,000 out of the one that's just
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for District Clerks. That's -- that money's -- every year, we
'~ have some pre-1900 documents that I feel it's very, very
important to keep them from deteriorating. I mean I've got
Governor Sam Houston's signature. And every year -- and it's
I
I', costly to send those to New Jersey and have them washed and
', have them sealed in mylar, but I think it's very important to
~I do that, and every year I've been spending around $5,000 to do
', a portion of that. This year I'm asking for, you know, 3,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Four.
MS. DECKER: Four?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, Records Management and
MS. DECKER: Which one -- see, there's actually
JUDGE TINLEY: What I'm looking at.
MS. DECKER: -- dedicated funds there; one just for
the County Clerk, one just for the District Clerk, and there's
one for anybody in the county. Those funds get there from
court fees from the County Clerk's office and the District
Clerk's office, but that money can be used for Commissioners
Court minutes. It can be used for the Treasurer. It can be
used by the Auditor. It can be used by anybody.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, once you get that --
going back to 25,000 request, once that process is completed,.
if it's completed, is that going to free up equipment or -- or
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MS. UECKER: Oh, hell, yeah.
MR. TROLINGER: Microfilm machine.
better not be standing below, because they're going out the
window. (Laughter.) As a matter of fact, I think we've
I
already hauled one to the dump or gave it away; I don't
remember. But right now, you know, for convenience, we're
having to use the microfilm, and microfilm is still the only
archival. But with DM-2000, now CASO, when they -- when they
do the C.D.'s, they do a roll of -- they do it on microfilm
first, but they don't send me a duplicate to use. They store
that in their state-authorized, you know, storage facility
that meets all those standards and requirements, and it's in
San Antonio. I had to move -- I moved everything from Austin
to San Antonio, 'cause it was less. And it was more
convenient, and I trusted this person a lot more with the
county's, you know, historic documents. But -- and she makes
a C.D. of that. Of course, right now we're -- we're using --
on the current stuff, we're using The Software Group's
scanning, but on the older stuff that's pre-Software Group,
she sends a C.D. of that to John, and he loads it in this --
in the PaperVision program, and it works beautifully. It
would really be wonderful when we can get everything in there.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there's a benefit to
getting this done and behind you, as opposed -- I mean --
MS. UECKER: Absolutely. And I'm not even sure that
25,000 is going to be enough.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would it take you to
get it done?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And how much money is in
dedicated funds?
MS. UECKER: Yeah, it's probably going to take --
what, 50? I would say. I would guess 50. Not more than 50.
(Discussion off the record.)
MS. UECKER: Now, I have -- I'm asking for
another -- two more PaperVision licenses, 2,300. So, as we
get more -- as we get more images into the -- into PaperVision
of the old stuff. Right now, I have one license. That means
if Clerk A is using PaperVision, Clerk B can't. I mean,
although it's available on all computers, only one person can
use it at a time. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, do you know how much we
have in those dedicated records-type funds?
MR. TOMLINSON: No, I don't -- I don't have my book
with me.
MS. UECKER: I might be able to tell you; hold on a
I second.
MR. TOMLINSON: I can work with her on that.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean --
MR. TOMLINSON: I think there's some cash available
in the District Clerk's --
MS. UECKER: There's about 7,000 in the one that's
just for District Clerks. Now, that's a new fund. We can use
some of that. And I think there's, like, 60,000 or 70,000 in
the one that's generally for	the	county.	And	then --
COMMISSIONER LETZ:	I	mean, it	seems	to me that
we've been going through this process for a number of years
where, you know, we're going to get there eventually. Why not
just get it done, if we can use dedicated funds, get rid of
that old equipment, free up some space, and quit having to
have two systems working simultaneously like we have right
now?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of the way I see
it. That's the reason I want to know what it would cost to do
the whole job.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds like there's probably
enough, depending on, you know, what else may need to be
requested out of those funds. Probably --
MS. UECKER: Right. And if you want to do that, and
if you want to authorize whatever, we've got enough money to
do it. You know, I just hesitate asking for that much out of
that fund, because I'm the only -- I mean, I'm not the only
~ person that's entitled to it.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if you're using it for
j a purpose that's approved and sanctioned, why not?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Did the County Clerk have any
I! requests for records management?
~~ MS. UECKER: Not out of that.
MR. TOMLINSON: I think there's -- I think there's
5,000. She asked for five out of -- out of Records
Management. 'Cause there's --
MS. UECKER: Out of the general one?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, because there's a total of
nine, what I have.
MS. UECKER: Now, the big -- the big one has more
than that in it. The one that's for --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's 60 or something?
MS. UECKER: I think. Isn't it at 60?
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we find out?
MR. TOMLINSON: You asked for -- for 4,000?
MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, she asked for five, because
there's a total of nine.
MS. UECKER: Oh, budgeted.
MR. TOMLINSON: Budgeted.
MS. UECKER: Well, I guess what we need to find out
is how much money is in this line item.
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MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know how much is in there.
MS. UECKER: And I'll find that out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the District Clerk fund, as
much as you -- you know, take that down to close to zero. I
mean, they all build up relatively quickly.
MS. UECKER: Right.
I, COMMISSIONER LETZ: And let's get it done, and then
i
concentrate on the District Clerk (sic), trying to get her
office done, too.
MS. UECKER: Yeah. And in doing so, I think -- I
think these people are now in discussions with the County
Clerk's office to do the same, because she wanted to wait last
year to see how it was working in our office.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That makes sense to me, to get
your office completed.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Am I hearing that that
$25,000 microfilm can be captured?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It'll go into another records
management type fund.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So that won't be a --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: District Clerk.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- a net addition to our
total budget?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Actually, it's a deduction.
25,000 will be deducted off this one.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good. That's good.
MS. UECKER: Well, now, the 25,000, you're going to
have to take the 8,000 off of that, because the 8,000 is what
our -- I use for the current -- you know, the current upkeep
of records preservation.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we would change --
JUDGE TINLEY: 17.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- from 25 back to 8, and
then find the dollars to do the conversion from the other pot.
MS. UECKER: Right. Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that right?
MS. UECKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, we're back to 8,
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Dedicated funds.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- dedicated funds.
MS. UECKER: I'll work on some figures there. Going
back up to Postage, I need to take -- what I had proposed
was -- of course, I think y'all already know that all the
postage machines are going to be obsolete. I think the Tax
Assessor's already replaced hers. I've still got -- I'm using
mine -- well, after I think January, those meters are not
going to be any good, and they all have to be replaced --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me ask you a question.
25 ~ MS. UECKER: -- because of technology.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there any -- do you see
i
any advantage in our having a centralized mail station?
Yours, Tax Assessor, Clerk?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: For the courthouse, you mean,
~ probably?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
MS. UECKER: I don't know. It's -- somebody's still
going to have to do the upkeep on it. There may be a little
advantage, but I don't see a whole lot. There's still times
-- well, there probably could be, but somebody's going to have
to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I understand somebody
has to do the work. Then we'd have to figure out, you know,
what kind of clerk and where to do that. Can we -- can we
consolidate three or four mailing operations into one and make
any sense out of it? Equip it appropriately?
MS. UECKER: I don't know. Right now, I -- I don't
think I can answer that. Now, there are a couple of instances
-- a couple of situations, and I've got the -- the statutes
written down somewhere, where it requires the clerk to deposit
certain mail into the mail receptacle if it's mailed out. I
haven't looked at that in several years, but I don't -- I
don't know what those are.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, you said the meters are
obsolete. My memory of meters is these things that you --
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67
letters run through them one at a time, and it stamps them.
Is that still used? Or can you not get the -- I mean, do it
~ all online now? Isn't there -- I mean, seems like you can go
through the U.S. Postal Service.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what the Post Office
is advertising.
MS. UECKER: Well, not -- not when you use as much
the postage, yeah. You can load your meter online, but you
still got to send the letter through there; it puts the little
stamp on it, yeah. And I asked the postman again, oh, a
couple of months ago about the mail, and he says, "Well, the
Tax Office has -- there's a couple of times when she has a
whole lot more mail, but on the average, your office receives
and disburses more mail than any other office on the average."
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot of your stuff is
either registered or certified?
MS. UECKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As far as consolidating three
offices into one, I -- I can't see it in my mind. Would you
be taking three smaller machines, eliminating them, and
purchasing a large machine?
MS. UECKER: A joint -- yeah. And the cost of that
is --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And a new employee probably,
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or at least a half an employee. I don't see what the
difference is. I don't see --
MS. UECKER: That's why I hesitate to say that,
yeah, I think it would be an advantage, because, you know,
I -- to move the postage machine from my office would not
justify me, you know, eliminating a staff person.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wasn't going in that
I direction.
MS. UECKER: I know, but I'm just kind of using that
as a gauge.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's worth considering,
~ though.
MS. UECKER: That's coming, right?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody else may have been
going in that direction, but I wasn't going in that direction.
MR. TOMLINSON: There are a lot of offices that use'
stamps, you know. A centralized -- a centralized place to
take care of those offices --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioners Court is one
of those backwards offices that still uses stamps.
MS. UECKER: You know, and I have made --
MR. TOMLINSON: So that might be -- there might be
some savings there if you had -- already had an employee, and
that was the additional duties for that employee. I don't
think you'd save any material amount, but --
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MS. UECKER: I have made this offer to a couple of
offices, and the Mediation Center is doing this. Those
postage machines will -- I think they will register up to six
accounts, and she comes over and uses our postage machine and
enters it on Account 3, and then every couple of months, I
send her a bill for postage. It's registered on Account 3. I
could do it for you. I could do it for the Auditor, you know.
If you have to run to the post office and buy stamps, don't do
that. I mean, I can set you up an account on our postage
I machine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- go ahead, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm curious as to -- these machines
are going to be nonfunctional shortly?
MS. UECKER: It's digital -- it's something about
the digital versus -- I don't know.
JUDGE TINLEY: Programmed obsolescence, huh?
MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm, yeah. It's obsolete.
JUDGE TINLEY: Pitney Bowes strikes again.
MS. UECKER: Well, Pitney Bowes is not very happy
with me, because I switched over to Neopost because it was
less -- less money, and I think they thought they had a
monopoly here. So, I'm kind of the -- the black cloud over
the courthouse right now 'cause I switched over to Neopost.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm glad to know there's a
competitor.
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They let you know, "We want your business; come in here and
buy postage from us." So, it's apparently taking hold. They
-- I think the Postmasters are getting paid based on their
unit's performance. If sales are going down, it hurts them.
No, it's not that they're paid; they justify their existence
based on their unit's performance.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think, you know, I like
Bill's idea, at least to explore about a centralized mail
room. Obviously, you get to a point that it does make sense.
I don't know if we're there or not, but I think that we really
need to wait. You know, I'd like to get Odyssey up and
running, and then next year at this time really do a -- I
mean, and kind of announce this to all the departments, if --
you know, how much time do passports take? How much time does
mail take you? Okay, if we take these two things, is that a
person? Or -- you know, and look at it and see if we could
start, you know, going in that direction and maybe, you know,
be able to reduce two staff and add one, so you have a net
gain of one. But I think, really, until we get Odyssey up and
running, I think trying to do --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Staffing-wise, it really is
I -- it's futile.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, I was going --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just as a general question
about -- going back to passports for just a second, how much
time does it take one clerk to process one passport?
MS. UECKER: I don't know, because they all do
several a day. And then, at the end of the day, they have to
complete a form and certify their own passports. And then --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you answered my
question, the first thing you said. You have several clerks
who do it.
MS. UECKER: They all do it, including me.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you can have two or
three people processing out passports at the same time,
whereas we used to be a bottleneck of one person doing it.
MS. UECKER: Right. Right. I mean, I've -- I've
seen times when the back -- the front -- behind the counter or
in front of the counter, all the customers were passport
customers, especially in the early spring when they're all
trying to get their passports. Now, effective January -- I
think it's the 7th of '07, if you leave by -- if you leave the
country by air or water or ship, you're going to have to have
a passport. You can still cross the border into Mexico or
Canada with your birth certificate, but if you fly or swim,
you have to have a passport.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you fly or swim?
25 ~ MS. UECKER: Or go by water, or boat.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You might get your passport
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Any predictions about the
I electronic mail for the future? See, I know people now who
I
II don't have land-line telephones, and I know people who don't
buy stamps. They pay all their bills online.
MS. UECKER: You mean electronic filing?
JUDGE TINLEY: Is -- is the Internet going to have
some beneficial impact on the way we do our business in the
county government?
MS. UECKER: Eventually, for the courts, it will.
As a matter of fact, I talked to Jake Stein from Texas Online
last week, and, of course, there -- he's a salesman, you .know.
He's trying to sell eFiling, if that's what you're talking
about. But -- and I've told Judge Tinley this, too; that
until -- right now, eFiling is e-mailing a document to the
clerk. The clerk still has to print it out, still has to put
it in the file, still has to file-stamp it, has to go back to
Odyssey, do all the data entry. And I've just flat told him
I'm not doing it until, when I accept that document, it enters
itself in Odyssey and it populates its data fields. That's
when -- when I'm going to take a serious look. But unless --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's going to be a
25 ~ breakthrough.
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MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, what?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That is going to be a
breakthrough.
MS. UECKER: That will be a breakthrough. Well, of
course, there is -- they tell you it -- yeah, that's what it's
doing, but if you call a county like El Paso County, where
they're doing it, he goes, "No, you still have to print it out
and you still have to do all this stuff." So, I'm -- "Okay,
thank you. That's all I wanted to know."
JUDGE TINLEY: How many counties are there that are
in the pilot project for eFiling now that's been going on for,
what, about two years now?
MS. UECKER: Yeah. I think there's six; Bexar
County, Dallas County. I think the small counties are maybe
Bell -- I'm not sure who they are, but I think there's five or
six there.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's been going on, what, two to
three years now?
MS. UECKER: Right, yeah.
MR. TROLINGER: And it is available on Odyssey for
civil right now. I think Dallas is one of the users of that,
where they've taken electronic filing through Odyssey.
MS. UECKER: But it's still not populating the data
fields.
MR. TROLINGER: Well, it supposedly files it, and --
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MS. UECKER: Yeah. It takes the image of it and it
moves it over into that case file, but it's still not adding
it as an event and all the stuff that's required to do the
data field stuff. But where I was going with the postage --
was it postage? On the machine, I had -- I had -- in Capital
Outlay, I had asked for 54. A thousand of that was for the
purchase of a new postage machine that was going to have to
happen, but you still have to buy the meter or lease it. You
still have to lease the meter. You still have to lease -- I
do a maintenance agreement with them. It's required. Plus
the postage increase insurance on it, you know, that says when
the postage increases, they have to send you a chip, you know;
and that's all included in that cost. When I looked at all of
that, it was going to be less costly to just do a lease every
month that would cover everything, because they are -- their
projected life is 63 months on a postage machine, and the
meter -- I mean, the meter especially is what goes out.
But -- and the lease for the whole thing is for 63 months.
So, that's -- that was going to be less over the 63-month
period, so I'm leasing. So, that's why I put 50 -- 24, but
probably -- no, it's actually not; it's going to be $2,200 for
the lease payments that I moved up to Postage. So, if we
could move that to 17,2 and deduct the 3,000 from the Capital
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Outlay, it's still a little less.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just lost me.
JUDGE TINLEY: 17,200 or 17,020?
MS. UECKER: 17,200 in Postage, and move -- and
change Capital Outlay from 54 to 24.
JUDGE TINLEY: $600 gain right there.
MS. UECKER: And you also had a question on -- let's
i see.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Software.
MS. UECKER: Software Maintenance. You did not put
an amount in there.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct. I tell you what
confused me there. It shows year-to-date actual, 11,6.
Projected year-end, 77.
MS. UECKER: Hey.
JUDGE TINLEY: Can you make that one out for me?
MS. UECKER: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the new Odyssey
~ system.
JUDGE TINLEY: And it's going to cost you 15,5 next
year for your Odyssey and your other systems that you've got
in place? I just --
MS. UECKER: I don't know of any change. John?
MR. TROLINGER: I've got it all summarized in a
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table that I gave the Commissioners.
MS. UECKER: They haven't notified me that it's
~~
!i going to be any less or more.
MR. TROLINGER: It's broken down. It's not one
total number for your office. That's everything I have.
', MS. UECKER: Right. But the total comes to
115,000 -- see, one of them did go up a little bit, and I think
it was Criminal Case Management, and that's why the difference
between the 15,347 and the 15,548.
MR. TROLINGER: I'm proposing we move maintenance --
MS. UECKER: For child support. Okay, so what's the
amount now?
MR. TROLINGER: You'll have to --
MS. UECKER: What's 637 times -- I don't know. That
might be premature, John.
MR. TROLINGER: Right. We'll have to see once we
~ get --
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's revisit that issue, if we
I could.
MS. UECKER: Which one?
JUDGE TINLEY: Is there a way, as those amounts are
paid, that you can plug them into the -- charge them against
that department, but have them controlled by the I.T.
department, all this software maintenance stuff?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I need to budget where I
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charge them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, what I'm thinking is we budget
them as a composite under the I.T. Department.
MR. TOMLINSON: No, 'cause I'd have to do a budget
amendment every time we pay a bill.
JUDGE TINLEY: And then, when you move it over, you
got to charge it? Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice try.
MS. UECKER: Probably next year, we'll be able to
move -- whatever 700 times 4 is -- 2,800 because of the child
support, but that may be a little bit premature this year, I
think.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, going back to that, I
mean, is it -- I mean, we've talked about if there was some
way that would work. But on some of these items, could -- if
we moved all of Software Maintenance to -- there's another
item we were looking at doing at the same time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Telephone.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Telephone.
JUDGE TINLEY: And Capital Outlay for computer
~ equipment.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All that to I.T., and then at
the end of the budget year, or monthly, just -- I mean, even
though it may not be exactly the amount, just attribute
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certain percentages to the departments? 'Cause I think
there's a real -- I mean, there's a reason to do -- you know,
the way we're doing it is to keep track of it by department, .
from the the accounting, whatever it is, to keep track of all
that stuff. But there's a -- trying to keep track of really
what the County's spending on some of these items, it would be
a lot easier to put it in one lump sum and put it in one
budget.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, my accounting system -- I can
print out -- I'll give you a printout of the total cost on
every line item, just by itself.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, as long as we have the same line
item number, 406 or 509 or whatever, and we keep that uniform
for software maintenance, --
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- you can print out --
MR. TOMLINSON: You can print --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- that line item, and it will show
by department the amount, and it will give us that total down
at the bottom.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you can do that for the
I.T. Department in one line. You're showing software; you get
a break-out of what it is by department. Licenses, and a
break-out by department. Maintenance, and a break-out by
department. That way we know what what our entire technology
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budget's going to be.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, my issue with -- I'll give you
an example. If we want to calculate what it costs to maintain
a prisoner in our jail, if we were going to contract with the
feds or with the state to hold prisoners, I don't want to have
to go to four different budgets to figure out what the total
cost is. And I think there is some merit in determining what
the functional cost is because of those kinds of issues. And,
I mean, I -- several years ago, we pulled the maintenance of
the jail out of the jail's budget and formed a new one. I
mean, I was opposed to that at that time. But -- but I know I
have to go to that budget and add that budget to the jail's
budget to calculate the cost of keeping prisoners. That's the
reason that I -- I'm trying to keep the total cost of
departments in that budget.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, then, the way to do
both is just to have --
MR. TOMLINSON: If you want to know how much we
spend on -- on software maintenance, my new accounting system
will -- I can do that in 10 minutes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess the -- what I'm trying
to get at is, a lot of these items, the elected officials have
really no input into it. I mean, it's not -- they don't know
what those numbers are.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: That's right.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's why -- I don't -- I
have no problem with them being listed in Linda's budget, but
I.T. needs to get a master print on it at the beginning of the
budget process, saying, "Here they are." They fill in the
number. One person gives it to you, and then --
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have a problem with that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- it goes back out to all the
I accounts.
MS. UECKER: Just like insurance.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause -- yeah. 'Cause, I mean;
they have no -- we're wasting everyone's time having to ask
elected officials to go into Software Maintenance, 'cause
they're going to have to go to either you or I.T.
MS. UECKER: I would just --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same thing applies to
~ licensing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, a lot of this stuff. A
lot of items on their budgets are not a discretional type
item; it's set by another department almost.
JUDGE TINLEY: Tommy, do we have a uniform listing
of line items? We've got that in place now?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, 562, Computer Software,
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is the same in every department?
MR. TOMLINSON: That's right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Today you could total 562?
MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or 563.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's --
MS. UECKER: No, it's actually 563, Software
Maintenance.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well --
MS. UECKER: That's the big item.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. TOMLINSON: Like, all the telephone is 420 in
every department. The -- the object number, what we call it,
is the same for the telephone for every department.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: If you want to know what
something's costing you, we've got the capacity today to tell
you that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm just more -- on the
budget side of it, it's -- I don't -- I think it's John's
responsibility, more than Linda's responsibility, what a lot
of these numbers are.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can remember B.T., which is
"before Tommy" --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before Tommy?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- all of us could sit down
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was, or where the money was and how much was there. It was
incredible, that amount of things lumped together. And it
hasn't been that long ago.
MR. TOMLINSON: Fifteen years.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- all the numbers, oh,
it was absolutely incredible. I don't know how they did that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When I first got on the Court,
there was no rhyme or reason to it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We came a long way. We don't
want to undo that; Tommy worked real hard to get that
standardized. It's just some of these numbers, now that we
have an I.T. person, I think he needs to be responsible next
budget year to fill out a lot of these things.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree 100 percent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So Linda doesn't have to mess
with it, and all the other departments don't have to mess with
it.
MS. UECKER: I'd just as soon not have to look at
them every time if I, all the same, have to keep a record of
all of them, approve them all. I mean, that will keep John
out of the bar.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MS. UECKER: Off the street.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we can probably get another
person out of Linda.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You might want to ask what
Letz just said.
MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, what?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said, and we can probably get
another staff member out of your department.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, probably so. That would be me.
(Laughter.)
MR. TROLINGER: But I do --
JUDGE TINLEY: Better. We're chopping from the top.
MR. TROLINGER: I do agree with keeping a -- a track II
of, you know, how much we're spending county-wide on software,
on computers, on the computer side on the -- where it ends up
in the Capital Outlay budget per line item. It does make it
difficult for me to get a deal purchasing computers, and it
would be advantageous to let me order and be authorized to
order equipment for the departments county-wide.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think that can be done
at the end of the budget -- end of budget. Tommy can print
out all the computer or all of the capital outlay items with
computers, and, I mean, give it to you in one number.
JUDGE TINLEY: He can give us the total dollar
value, the volume, but I'm not sure he's going to know whether
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84
it's going to be for computers or printers or --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Mr. T. would have
I those.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- vacuum cleaners or whatever.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He'd have the master list;
everybody goes through him. If you need a new workstation --
MS. UECKER: Which we're basically doing anyway.
MR. TOMLINSON: We're doing that now.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what can happen there --
pretty simply, I think -- is to have all purchases that go
through the I.T. Department on a separate line item --
separate capital line item. That way, Tommy can just run that
number. Here, John, you figure out how to get that. And then
chairs and desks go under a separate capital outlay item. We
could have two capital outlay items. I don't know if the
computers are capital outlay. Aren't they less than that
number? We keep track of them here as capital --
MR. TROLINGER: Computer hardware number right now,
or line item.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's not any more. .
MR. TROLINGER: Oh.
MR. TOMLINSON: I deleted those.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, there's a way to
keep track of it; a way to, hopefully -- John, you need to
write this down so we have this discussion next June, before
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we start the budget.
MS. UECKER: Going back to my budget, there's a
couple of other things I wanted just to mention. On the
machine repair, you reduced that to 500. Which, yeah, I'd
like for that to be enough, but until we get this project
complete, I'm still going to have, you know, some expense on
that, including the two big printers that I have. They're --
they're old, but they're still working. But -- and there's
minor things that can be repaired on those. This year,
looking at it, yeah, they've been -- everything's been real
good and I haven't had to spend any money. Year before, I
did. But I'm not sure that 500 is going to be enough. Could
we up that to 750, anyway?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, 750.
MS. UECKER: The other thing I was going to mention.
earlier in my opening statement is that I would like to have
the 5,000 in the part-time budget again like I have had,
because I may use that to hire someone to come in next -- next
year and help Simona with the appeals, or just do appeals.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You got two items up there,
and, you know, those are personnel items; Part-Time 5,000, and
Overtime 1,000.
MS. UECKER: Yeah. And I went way over my overtime
budget this year, because during that Odyssey transition, I
mean, everybody -- I just kind of gave everybody a blank --
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for about three weeks there, just blank approval to, you know,
work overtime if you want to. And, you know, we'll just have
to come up with the money somewhere. And they did. Weekends,
nights. I mean, I don't have that --
JUDGE TINLEY: You recently had to do a budget
amendment on that, if I recall.
MS. UECKER: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't you?
MS. UECKER: I did.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And it's not reflected here.
I So --
MS. UECKER: Yeah. And I've even got, like I told
you earlier, a couple of employees that, you know, I've asked
them, "You didn't turn in your either comp time or overtime."
"Well, no, I'm not going to do that. You know, I just want to
get it done."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you leave the 1,000 in
there? Is that what is being said here?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's what she's asking, yeah. She
had to transfer 600. She had a budget of 500; she transferred
600 to cover.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was Odyssey-related?
MS. UECKER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we won't have that next
year, though, right? Or will we?
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MS. UECKER: I hope not. You have to remember, I'm
not asking for more staff. I'm hoping that that overtime
budget will show that I have used nothing next year. And --
you know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wrote 1,000 down.
MS. UECKER: I'm flexible on that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about leaving you the
part-time and taking out the overtime?
MS. UECKER: Well, --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or putting --
MS. UECKER: -- except that a part-time person is
not going to help me when someone has to work overtime.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
MS. UECKER: I mean, if it's something that I can
do, like if we're having court, if I can -- most of the time,
I try to stay -- I try to be the one to stay overtime so I
don't have to -- you know, 'cause it doesn't mean any more
money or less to me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where did we finally end up
on Software Maintenance? 15,548?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MS. UECKER: 15,548. And I guess that's everything
that I have on that, unless you have some questions. Law
Library, that's pretty much the same. What's --
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JUDGE TINLEY: On your jury --
MS. UECKER: Jury? Yeah, jury. I had 9,800 in
there in Operating Supplies. That does include jury cards.
That fluctuates from year to year, 'cause some years I don't
have to buy jury cards. I just placed an order for some more.
But that also included the American Jury Project, which was a
laptop and two video projectors for the -- two screens that
come down.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that included in the the 98?
MS. UECKER: Yes. Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, that's why it jumped.
MS. UECKER: Well, see, you moved the 3,800 that I
had asked down to Capital Outlay, per I.T.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. UECKER: And reduced that back to 53. That's
fine. I just didn't know if you wanted it in -- I put it up
there because there was no Capital Outlay line item in that
budget.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, what should the 98 be?
MS. UECKER: 53.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the capital outlay added to that
of 38.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you.
MS. UECKER: Is 38.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Capital outlay would be a
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570.
MS. UECKER: 570.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Line 570.
MS. UECKER: And on the -- okay. Yeah, we've
already talked about that. On the District Court, the one --
the Records Management that's just for my office, the one
that's 63, I had 1,000 in there, but we'll -- I'll get some
new figures on that for the next... And das ist alles.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Das gut.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can you think of anywhere
in county government that we have a potential source of
revenue that we're not capitalizing on? Is there any --
anyplace, anywhere? Not just -- I'm not just talking about
your shop, that you can think of that we could, if we chose,
be charging fees for certain services or licenses, or --
MS. UECKER: Gosh, I'd have to think about that one.
I'm not prepared for that right off the top of my head. I'm
sure there is, but I'd have to think about it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many years have you been
District Clerk?
JUDGE TINLEY: Glad you didn't ask her how old she
I is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 28.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 28?
MS. UECKER: Since 1987.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: '87?
MS. UECKER: And I've been here 39 years.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That may be a record.
MS. UECKER: I think it is.
MR. TROLINGER: I thought you were only 38 years
old.
MS. UECKER: I am, shhh. I was two.
', COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 20 years next year. Are we
I
going to throw you a party for 20 years?
MS. UECKER: Heck, yeah. That's what the Bible
says. Where two are or more are gathered, it's a party.
(Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the south Texas
I version.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. Are we having fun
~ here yet?
MS. UECKER: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, in response to your
question, I can think of one instance. I'm sure there are
others. In the Tax Assessor's office, on vehicle
registration, I think we can charge $1.20 or something for a
child safety fee. But, of course, we got to spend that money
for a very specific purpose. You know, you buy child seats or
something; I don't know what we do with it. But that's the
only one off the top of my head I can think of.
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MS. UECKER: I know that in my office, all the fees
that are set by the Commissioners Court are -- I've asked for
the maximum. I've got those maxed out.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is there anything you do we
can charge the City for?
MS. UECKER: I can charge them to get in the office,
to walk through the door.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on this one? Let's
move to J.P's.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Linda, quickly, I do appreciate
you sending the Attorney General opinions and keeping up with-
that. I really do. Keep that up. I mean, I --
MS. UECKER: I was going to ask you if you read
I them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I read them if I think they're
applicable. Some of them I don't, but --
MS. UECKER: Do you want me to keep doing that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Please.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
MS. UECKER: Do you also want the legislative stuff
that goes --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I appreciate it also.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MS. UECKER: Okay. You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There'll be a little
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something extra in your paycheck.
MS. UECKER: Oh, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Absence of a pink slip, right?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know that we have
authority for that one.
JUDGE TINLEY: Shhh.
MS. UECKER: I just can't figure out why we're the
only county that doesn't pay longevity for elected officials.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good question.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 'Cause we haven't had a
County Judge re-elected since 1960-something.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: This is the first one in 20 years.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He's got to make it through
November.
MS. UECKER: I mean, I can bring that up, 'cause,
you know --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be a good reason,
I Dave.
MS. UECKER: Twenty years as District Clerk.
JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we figure the cost to support
you would be so great that we couldn't stand it.
MS. UECKER: But I deserve it.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's not the issue.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Linda, they would pay what you
deserve, but there is a minimum wage law. (Laughter.)
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MS. UECKER: As Buster says, I am the state
champion, you know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: State champion.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. J.P. 1. Actually, probably
JUDGE ELLIOTT: How about that? Now, the District
Clerk came up and said that she was doing all these things,
going to the court and out doing criminal stuff, and stuff. I
just wanted y'all to know for the record that I have not been
out doing criminal stuff like the District Clerk. Okay, yeah.
Everything looks like it was in line except the telephone
expense, and --
JUDGE TINLEY: You see where I got the figure I did?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yeah, you got that from the
annualized last year actual. And -- and I just haven't put in
a -- last year, I didn't do that. And I haven't done it
really yet this year, used a -- my cell phone expenses. I
think the other J.P.'s -- you know, the people that put the
cell phone as part of telephone expense since we have to have
one when we're going out doing things. And I just haven't ---
I've just used my personal cell phone, haven't billed the
County any money for that. So, in the event that I get a --
'I behind a plan that I can separate my personal expense out from
the business expense, or like at least pay the base rate or
something, I would like to have some leeway in there. That's
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94
why I cut it from the -- let's see, the budgeted amount used
to be 850, and I think I brought it down to seven. But that's
up to you. I'm not going to haggle over a couple hundred
dollars, but I would like, in case -- I would like to be
somewhat compensated for having to use a cell phone. But I
Well, I think the County
should pay for your county usage of a cell phone, whether it's
$200 or $7.50.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think if you get to the
point where we can consolidate all these like we talked to
Mr. Trolinger about, that would take care of your problem.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: So, anyway, that's why I reduced it
from 850; I'm not going to use it. From 850, I brought it
down to seven. If I didn't use it this next year, I'd bring
it down again. But I thought I'd step it down rather than
just jump it down to what was used the prior year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think when you get into the
problem of cell phones, what Vance is saying is that you --
it's hard to separate personal versus county. And, you know,
most of them, you get so many minutes and you get a bill, and
how do you divide it out?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
25 ~ JUDGE ELLIOTT: I think what some of the other
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elected officials are doing is just charging the base rate --
like, minimum of whatever minutes to have a phone; maybe $40 a
month or something like that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's reasonable.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Thirty or something like that. And
I haven't even done that, and so I was trying to leave some
money there to start figuring out a way where I can actually
bill at least the base rate for it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, put 700 in there?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. It's certainly up to the
Court. I got no problem with it. I understand where he's
coming from. I think probably it might simplify things if the
Court were to adopt a policy --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- for elected officials, department
heads who utilize -- don't have a separate cell phone on
the -- on the County's tab, that use their own cell phone, of
a flat fee or the base rate or whatever that may be. I think
that would greatly simplify it for a lot of purposes. Number
one is reimburse. Number two is budgeting purposes, all
~ purposes.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: I think you're right.
MR. TOMLINSON: There are a lot of counties that --
that have a county-wide cell phone allowance, and they come up
with a schedule based on historical use by department. And
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then -- and then they give everybody that has a need for a
cell phone a cell phone allowance, just like you would if you
were -- you travel.
JUDGE TINLEY: Can you get one of those schedules?
Let's don't reinvent the wheel if we don't have to. We'll
take a look at it.
MR. TOMLINSON: Sure.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the other one is, for
example, Five Star -- the basic plan of Five Star is 39 bucks,
isn't it?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Whatever -- I don't know. But
that's a good example, whatever the base rate is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the basic plan.
i
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do they base that number
on, though? You say prior usage?
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they -- .
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do you find that?
MR. TOMLINSON: Some historical information about
how many minutes different users typically use. And, so, they
developed a schedule that says that if this Individual "X"
uses a cell phone on an average of this many minutes, and they
-- then they allow so many per month to that individual. And
what that does, I -- and for my part, it keeps us from having
to distinguish between personal use and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
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MR. TOMLINSON: -- and business use.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MR. TOMLINSON: And that kind of puts us in a
position of -- of being able -- of having to determine those
issues, and I would rather get out of that if we can.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We need to figure out a flat
rate schedule, be it a historical use or just coming up with
an arbitrary number. In this particular office, there's a
great deal of cell phone usage; this one, there's not much.
And so you come up with a flat rate schedule, or base rate, or
-- but some policy. Let's figure out a base rate. A base
rate and 500 minutes, something like that. Talk to three or
four companies that use it, average that, and that's it.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a good plan. I can't
imagine going back and researching and trying to figure up how
much usage --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's unnecessary.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Some departments may use -- you
know, like, law enforcement may use a higher number of
minutes. As far as the J.P.'s, I mean, whatever the base
minimum plan would be would be enough.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think Rusty's different
on all things.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: If $40 gives you 300 minutes or
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whatever, that would be plenty.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going to figure out the base
rate, the number of minutes for companies that pretty much
serve this area, and take an average and make it a lot
simpler.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The only time I see Letz
~, without a phone in his ear is in here. I mean, you can blow
your horn at him, run at him on the street; he doesn't know
you're there.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: That's the way most drivers are when
they got a cell phone in their ear. All right. That's -- so
that's the only issue, really. We have just been continually
I dropping our -- decreasing our operating budget over the
years. If you look at just the numbers that we plugged in
that didn't involve insurance and salaries and things like
that, the '03-'04 was about 8,400. The '04-'05 came out to
about 7,400. That included the software stuff. And last
year -- or this year, we're looking at about $4,800. We've
cut that in half. And what we're doing, obviously, is we're
using the court technology fee that is collected from traffic
fines. That goes into a separate account. It's supposed to
be used for technology for justices of the peace, and so we're
using those. We've been using those funds to take care of
these other software expenses associated with the Justice of
the Peace offices. Which obviously brings me to the same
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question and problem that we've discussed earlier, and that's'
on the technology -- or budget for capital or technology
expenses, I put in 3,500. Now, the only way I knew what to
plug in or a number was because when Software Group promoted
this program and said this is what it would be to bring these
J.P.'s up to -- up to snuff with this new system, and $1,000
in training and all these other things, that the allocation
will be about $3,500 per office. Quite frankly, I have no
clue what it is with Odyssey. I didn't have any input in what
it was. I don't know how much it would cost -- it costs my
office to have Odyssey. So, other than what they've given me
two years ago, I don't know.
MR. TROLINGER: Software maintenance did not change.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: So, 3,500 bucks evidently is the
number.
MR. TROLINGER: Software maintenance went down a
little bit per office since J.P. 4 came online.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You get that number, John?
MR. TROLINGER: The actual amount?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. And the same for each of
the four J.P.'s?
MR. TROLINGER:	It's	the	same	for each.
JUDGE ELLIOTT:	I'm	going	by	a memo that we had when
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, are you going to split
that technology fund into four -- each J.P.? Or just charge
it back --
MR. TOMLINSON: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- afterwards, or don't care?
MR. TOMLINSON: It's all lumped together.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I guess from the
standpoint J.P.'s all get lumped together.
MR. TOMLINSON: I mean under the technology fund,
I it's all --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. TOMLINSON: -- all one fund. And so it's kind
of like the records management. One of them can use it all,
or they can agree to -- to use their share.
MR. TROLINGER: It's $2,900 per office.
JUDGE TINLEY: 2,900?
MR. TROLINGER: Now, the additional $1,000 that the
Judge mentioned, on-site training is $1,000 a day, and --
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Already taken care of.
MR. TROLINGER: -- if we decide to come on-site next
year for some major upgrade, and we want Software Group to
come on-site.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: That number is 29 what?
MR. TROLINGER: 2,900. I rounded it off.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Because -- we need to know that,
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technology fund for other things.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we'll just say 2,900 for
each of the J.P.'s, so 2,900 times four is coming out of that
fund this year.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE ELLIOTT: All right. And just -- just as an
overview, to let the Commissioners Court know, like I said, we
have been doing more with less operating budget money every
year. We've been trimming it a little bit. It's been going
down just a little bit every year. And our -- the workload
and income, which best way to kind of -- one way of figuring
out how busy we are, what we're doing, is how much money we're
handling, bringing in, because every.-- just about everything
we do is associated with cost, with the exception of failing
to attend school. We don't have the students pay court costs,
because they generally don't have the money, and we -- it
makes it difficult to require the parents. They usually do
community service for those court costs. But in 2003, J.P. 1
brought in 109,000. The next year, 141,000. The next year --
last year -- 184,000. And just through June of this year,
over 100,000 -- 106,000. So --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Profit center.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: We've been very busy. And our
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historically, your office is not as big a generator because of
its geography of the interstate.
JUDGE TINLEY: 3 and 4 are the big ones, aren't
they?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: 3 and 4 have typically always been
the largest generators of revenue. But it just depends on
what's going on out there. That's why you see, you know,
we -- like I say, three years ago, in 2003, we brought in 109,
and last year we were at 184. Now, what -- but the problem
is, what that might mean to the County is, because there's an
increase in 1, there might have been a decrease in 4 or 3.
You see, it just depends on where they move around. But,
anyway...
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is number one, that's
it. Number one; that's the reason.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Precinct 2.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: She's not here, so on her behalf,
I'd like to recommend a cut in salary. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're excused. You can
leave the room.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: One other thing, though, that
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103
I
while ago about what are we doing, or -- you know, and you
made a comment about, "What about the City?" You know, what
', -- is there anything that's not being taken care of? And let
me express to the Commissioners Court something that's been a
little bit of a sore point with the J.P.'s for many years, and
something we've really not -- when we go to meetings and we
talk to other J.P.'s in other counties about how things work,
and the municipal judge in other counties -- for example, in
Kendall County, they will go out on the weekend, and one
weekend out of a month or so, and do their duty to set
magistration bail and bond. And so that means all the judges
are kind of working together to go to the jail on off times,
on weekends, and perform their duties.
That has never been the case with city of Kerrville.
I've done a little bit of research, too, on the aspect of just
how constitutionally is it proper that County elected
officials or people in the County ticket are doing work for
the municipal -- the City of Kerrville? For example, when a
person is arrested by the police department for public
intoxication -- or what happens a lot, they have had five
tickets and three failed-to-appears, and they never went to
their municipal court. They got arrested, they go out to the
~', jail; they've got three or four charges. They got three other
failed-to-appear charges, and we're sitting there going
through and -- and having to read them their rights, spend the
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104
night in jail.
JUDGE TINLEY: And collect their dough.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: And the -- yeah, and cannot -- I
cannot collect the dough. The money for their fine, as well,.
I can't even set their fine as I could legally if there was a
San Antonio warrant and they came up, I could actually set the
fine and everything for that case. But I can't do it in
Kerrville, because Kerrville is within Kerr County, and
there's a little bit of a stickler there. But the main thing,
what I want you to have a clear picture of, is that we're
performing judicial duties only for the city of Kerrville, in
the example I've given you, where they've got multiple traffic
offenses, and they have -- or a P.I., something that is a
municipal court issue. Now, the $30 or whatever it is that
the Sheriff bills for one-day incarceration, that is separate.
That's an incarceration jailing fee. What the judges are
doing is -- you know, it's totally separate of judicial duties
as a magistrate. And so, you know, there's a couple ways they
get around -- I mean, a couple ways they could do this.
Number one is, we would continue to do that, and we would --
the County would bill for that service.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about 300,000 a year,
something like that?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Or, number two --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got to look at it in terms
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105
of capacity.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Now, of course, the way I'd like to
resolve the issue would be to be appointed as associate
municipal judge, get compensation directly from the City to do
their work for them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather us charge them
~ magistration fees.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: So -- but, anyway, that is -- that's
been a problem, because the municipal judge does not come out
and participate in that, and they do not compen -- the City
does not compensate the County for performing, really, what
the municipal judge should be coming out and doing.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does the law say about
that?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Well, the law says that -- well, I
can't take their plea and things of that nature. It is kind
~ of -- it's -- I've got mixed opinion on an Attorney General
opinion on that as far as setting bail or bond, or what
happens when the probable cause affidavit is not sufficient.
Dismiss it or not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just talking about the
basic premise of charging for magistration fees -- charging a
~ magistration fee.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: I know that in the past, there's
been a problem -- I know there's a problem with J.P.'s in the
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106
past have tried to be compensated for performing that duty,
and I think that's been ruled unconstitutional or wrong. A.G.
opinion said that's not proper.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But can the County charge
', the City, for example, a magistration fee for your services?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: I have no idea.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, didn't you say that
it is different somehow in some other counties?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yeah, because what happens is the --
the municipal judge participates by going out. And so, in
the -- in fairness, what the municipal judge is doing is, they
-- he may be also on -- he or she may be setting bail and bond
for County Court at Law when they're out there that day, so
it's a trade-off.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, they get in cycles; instead
of having a four-person cycle, it would be a five-person
cycle.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Exactly.
JUDGE TINLEY: When I mentioned "collect their
money," I didn't mean that we --
JUDGE ELLIOTT: I'm sorry.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- collected, per se, but what
happens in those cases where there's outstanding fines and
F.T.A.'s and that sort of stuff is, we end up being the
servicing agent for them to get their money. Because the rule
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is, until there's a cashier's check or money order, certified
funds, cash, whatever, directly to the City, we don't let that
individual out of jail. That's essentially it.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: We typically will P.R. out municipal
Class C misdemeanors.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could --
JUDGE TINLEY: But if they're being held by virtue
of nonpayment of fines, they want the money normally.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Very rarely ever do they have a
capias pro fine. Most of those are just for people that
didn't show up, so they have to be let out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Same thing with D.P.S.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you could -- I mean,
there's -- is there a requirement that you have to magistrate
them?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you could just leave them in
~ jail.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: There's been times when I've
thought, you know, these are municipal things; I'm not going
to magistrate them. I could leave, and -- but that's the
problem.
MR. TROLINGER: The problem on that, we're only --
we're -- the Sheriff's only charging $37 that first day, and
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any additional days he does not bill.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could bill them.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Can he?
JUDGE TINLEY: If they're strictly Class C
misdemeanors that were arrests of the city, I think he might
be able to for the additional days.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any idea of what the volume
of this is?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: I did a case -- I mean, I see -- I
think it was closing in on about 15 percent, maybe 20. But --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of your time?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: And I asked the other J.P.'s to look
into it, but I think it's going to be consistent, because --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: -- it's just -- doesn't matter. We
rotate when we go out there anyway, so it'll be consistent
across the board, I would think.
JUDGE TINLEY: Should be, yeah.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Anyway, just an issue there to think
I about.
JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all want to try and go ahead and
blow through the rest of these J.P. ones before we quit?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Try.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. J.P. 2, the big question mark
I had was on telephone. Now, I was beating up on Vance for a
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109
$700 phone bill, and here were looking at a $2,700 phone bill.
Judge Wright gives me numbers that tells me her office phone
lines, fax line, long distance, cell phone, pager -- well, she
turned in her pager. It comes out to almost $240 a month.
That's what she tells me it is, and that's where she comes up
with the number. And if you look at the historical use,
that's about what it runs out to.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So --
JUDGE TINLEY: The option, I guess, is ~o tell her
not to have a phone.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could hold her
incommunicado out there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: There are big differences
in the phone bills of the four.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Common sense would say to me
that she should be similar, in the same ballpark -- in the
ballpark, at least.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Number -- J.P. 4 is 2,400.
JUDGE TINLEY: Those are remote locations from the
courthouse. I think that probably has a lot to do with that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
', JUDGE TINLEY: 1 and 3 are here; 2 and 4 are remote,
separate.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, she got two lines. I
don't know if Vance has two lines or not. Paying for two
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110
lines plus a fax.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: We have two lines.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you're tied into our system,
so --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But she should be tied into the
same -- I mean, her rate -- I know it's not the Sheriff's, but
it's the same building, I mean, as the Sheriff has.
JUDGE TINLEY: She says she's got two lines on her
office phone and her fax line.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Her calls don't come through
the Sheriff's main number.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, not through the number, but'
it's in the same --
MR. TROLINGER: It's the same telephone system.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's the same trunk
system.
I JUDGE ELLIOTT: I do know that when I'm out there
and I have to borrow the phone -- and this is something you
might want to -- maybe John can help look into this. You
don't have to dial 9 on some of her lines to get out, which
would mean that there's a direct line, as opposed to being in
~~, with the system, which might save a lot of money.
MR. TROLINGER: She's got a Center Point number, I
believe.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got what?
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MR. TROLINGER: A Center Point number, for any
callers from Center Point, so they don't have to dial long
distance.
JUDGE TINLEY: Center Point is no longer long
distance, anyway.
MR. TROLINGER: What is the 634? Comfort?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 995 is Comfort.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That number, she doesn't
use.
MR. TROLINGER: At one time, they had another phone
number associated with J.P. 2 for the purpose of avoiding long
distance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She doesn't use the 634
number any more; I'm the only one that uses the 634 number
over there.
MR. TROLINGER: It's still present on the J.P. 4 --
~, or J.P -- excuse me -- 2's phone system. I don't know if
~, that's a factor in the cost of her lines.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing that would be --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can --
I
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing, I see the cell
phone -- that rate probably is not going to be reimbursed at
that high of a rate under a new system. She has cell, 75 to
77. I don't know who wrote that. I guess that's her.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge wrote that. That's
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the Judge's writing there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's my writing. This is --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The sticky is gone.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but she combines the cell
phone into that, and she has 233 -- or, no, it isn't.
JUDGE TINLEY: Those are the numbers she gave me,
~ 75, 77.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there may be some reduction,
based on whatever the --
JUDGE TINLEY: Policy.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the policy is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. If we adopt the
policy that we'll just provide a base rate, that will go down.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, that may, you know, have to
get adjusted there. Okay.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I'm looking at all four of
them at the same time. I notice that 1, 2, and 3 telephone
bills are pretty much flat over the last three budgets, but
J.P. 4 is -- has doubled. Is Judge Ragsdale providing any
rationale for that?
MR. TROLINGER: That's part of the grant, I think.
The grant still paid -- I'm not sure, but anyway, there's a
cable modem. Has that been included in the telephone line
item?
MR. TOMLINSON: Probably so.
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MR. TROLINGER: Okay, that's why. Their Internet
connection and their connection to the county courthouse is
through a cable modem.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. And that's different
today than it was in 2003?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the capital outlay for
Judge Wright?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She's asking for a desk and
a hutch, looks like.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I see.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: A hutch. What's a hutch? I
thought that was in a dining room.
JUDGE TINLEY: No, that just --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bookshelf.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bookshelf? All right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rabbit hutch.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Change "hutch" to
"bookshelf."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What would happen to her --
her present desk? That is an excellent desk. What would
happen to it?
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. She hasn't
told me what she had in mind. I'm wondering whether it's a
I that .
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll have to ask her.
JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty significant amount for a desk
and a hutch in today's market, it seems to me.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, me too. I'll find
out. I'll put a big question mark there; I'll call her.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Shall we go to 3?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge Castillo?
MR. CASTILLO: Okay. I -- morning.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning.
MR. CASTILLO: I went by the budget from '05-'06. I
think the first thing that we could save some money is cut the
salary for the judge in half. (Laughter.)
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Because of inexperience coming in,
you certainly don't need to pay as much.
JUDGE TINLEY: I came across a book early this
morning at a garage sale that I'm going to make a permanent
part of the library here. I've already got one book in there.
It's the -- I don't remember whether it's Emily Post or Amy
Vanderbuilt, which is a book of etiquette. That's been a part
of the library here for several years now.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Emily Post, huh?
JUDGE TINLEY: This one -- this new book that I
acquired today is -- Dale Carnegie's the author of it. Some
of you may have heard of it. "How to Win Friends and
Influence People." I'd recommend it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Obviously, the J.P. didn't
read that book.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Going to check that out
~~ today?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Don't you think we ought to
cut Commissioners Court salaries too?
MR. CASTILLO: Or, on the other hand, increase the
budget by 50 percent.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. On
bonds, the 320, is that -- is that enough for a new official
and a new official's secretary and all that?
MR. CASTILLO: It costs me 50 bucks for two years.
JUDGE TINLEY: Should be --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should be plenty.
MR. CASTILLO: Up to date on July 12th -- let's see.
I don't know about books and publications. I had 200, but
don't we get our books through upstairs library? Do you know?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Is that line item -- Books and
Publications, wasn't it? Probably it's Books, Publications,
and Dues. So, if you're a member of the association, that's
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where that dues is coming in. She needs to -- the judge is
going to need to be a member of the association, Justice of
the Peace.
MR. CASTILLO: 45 bucks a year.
JUDGE TINLEY: I did reduce telephone there by a
small amount. And, here again, looking at historical use, you
just pulled over the original budgeted amount from this
current year?
MR. CASTILLO: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. CASTILLO: And I'm not using very much of my
miscellaneous. I'm not using much of my -- at all. Let's
see. Equipment maintenance, part-time salary. I'm in there
-- when my clerk is gone on sick leave or vacation, I'm in
there.. I don't have anything else to do. I don't need to go
out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You've increased conferences,
looks like.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, because -- because of the.
initial year of training.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Y'all want to raise that a whole
lot, 'cause they're going to need a lot of training for that
deal.
MS. MITCHELL: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Have you seen this budget,
Ms. Mitchell?
MS. MITCHELL: Yes. I was the one that suggested
I this .
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay, so you're all right
I with it.
MR. CASTILLO: I don't know what y'all are going to
-- I don't have anything much to say about that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. CASTILLO: Telephone, it looks like it's 59. We
may not -- unless you go into Agrant and go searching
yourself, but if you utilize Will and Alford, may cut -- cut
that down some more, too. That's the only place where I use
it a lot, if I go into Agrant thing. Sometimes you really
have to go in there a whole lot.
JUDGE TINLEY: A lot of these phone things are
probably going to be subject to modification when we get the
cell phone policy plugged in, but we'll have to see how that
goes. Anything else, Judge?
MR. CASTILLO: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. Why don't we --
MR. CASTILLO: Any questions?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. Why don't we break
for lunch and come back about 1:30.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we finish 4?
JUDGE TINLEY: I thought -- oh, excuse me.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can still come back at
1:30.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Do you want to make a
recommendation, Judge Elliott, on Precinct 4? Since he's not
here?
JUDGE ELLIOTT: He would like to do a lot more with
a lot less too. So, let your conscience be your guide.
MR. CASTILLO: Another thing that -- Judge, let me
add another --
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we break for lunch and come
back at 1:30.
(Recess taken from 12:10 p.m. to 1:35 p.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to order. If'
I'm not mistaken, we're down to constables, are we not?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one quick footnote on
J.P. 2 on that capital item.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I called. She's on
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share it with you on Monday.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 17.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I got a call at lunchtime
from a constituent that was demanding do I something about
global warming.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Global warming?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Global warming. I told her
I was going to work on world peace today. I -- that's what I
told her.
JUDGE TINLEY: Have to wait till Monday?
(Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, Commissioner.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Constable 1 is with us.
MR. BILLEITER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's been with us all
morning waiting on this.
MR. BILLEITER: Off and on. I thought you were
going to get to me before lunch, but you didn't.
JUDGE TINLEY: In case you fellows haven't figured
it out, I'm trying to put you guys on a par.
MR. BILLEITER: I understand that.
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JUDGE TINLEY: In most categories, probably what
will have most of you upset is, I took the one that was the
cheapest, and then I put everybody there with that one.
MR. BILLEITER: One thing I wanted to ask. On the
3,500 requested on fuel --
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. BILLEITER: -- there was two reasons why I
requested that. Number one, fuel costs are going up.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MR. BILLEITER: Number two, I have bought a K-9, and
I've trained her as a drug dog, and she'll be certified the
18th of next month. Her and I both will.
JUDGE TINLEY: And you got to be running.
MR. BILLEITER: So I anticipate being called out a
lot by the Sheriff's Department, and also by D.P.S. We only
have two drug dogs in Kerr County that I know of. Mine will
be the second one.
JUDGE TINLEY: And you got to leave your engine
~ running.
MR. BILLEITER: Yes, I do.
JUDGE TINLEY: In order to keep her from dying in
I the car.
MR. BILLEITER: Yes. I've already bought a cage for
the car and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: She doesn't need a cage.
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MR. BILLEITER: -- invested in the K-9 training.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What kind of dog?
MR. BILLEITER: Golden lab.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Did you train her from
scratch?
MR. BILLEITER: Started training her at two months,
and she'll be -- we should be certified, both her and I will
be certified, if we pass, the 18th of next month.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've got some four-week-old
puppies that are up for sale right now.
JUDGE TINLEY: Constable, it's going to be pretty
embarrassing if you go to take your certification and the dog
passes and you don't.
MR. BILLEITER: That is going to be embarrassing,
yes. But the person who's training me assures me that I will
~ pass .
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. (Laughter.)
MR. BILLEITER: So, that's why I had that in there,
because I feel like I'll probably be called out quite a bit.
The other thing was, I don't know -- I was trying to remember.
I'm going to have to have new tires for my vehicle next year.
I've got 41,000 miles on my car. We're going to have to have
the radar calibrated or certified this year, and I'm not sure
exactly what that costs, but that's why I put 1,200 in for
vehicle maintenance and repair. I didn't have to buy new
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tires this year, but I will have to next year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 41,000 miles. That was one
of the things that I wanted to talk to everybody about -- or
not talk about, just ask about. How long have you had the --
had the car now?
MR. BILLEITER: Well, how long have y'all had them,
~ Angel?
MR. TOMLINSON: Three years.
MR. GARZA: Three years.
MR. BILLEITER: Three years.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have you had yours three?
MR. BILLEITER: No, hmm-mm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they should have more
miles than you, because they --
MR. BILLEITER: Not necessarily, 'cause they've all
been used same amount. I think I have more miles than --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's right.
MR. BILLEITER: I think I have more miles -- I know
more than Angel. I'm not sure about Joel.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. BILLEITER: But those are the only two things.
I know you cut my office expense, and that's good, because
last year I -- or when I started, I had nothing except a phone
on the floor. So, that's fine. But the -- the fuel and the
vehicle maintenance and repair, that -- it may need 1,200; I'm
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I not sure.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the last year on
your lease on the --
MR. GARZA: I think it is.
MR. TOMLINSON: It's paid off. There is no lease
~ this year.
JUDGE TINLEY: Pardon?
MR. BILLEITER: There is no lease this year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, the lease is over on
these? Okay, good.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, you need fuel and maintenance
items restored to the original request. You thought those
through very, very carefully before you -- and very tightly
before you brought them to me, right?
MR. BILLEITER: Yes, sir, I did.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. BILLEITER: That's all I had. Everything else
looks really good.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 500 covers the insurance,
I huh?
MR. BILLEITER: I suppose we didn't have enough in
there last year to cover it. We had to take some --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, does 500 cover it?
MR. TOMLINSON: It should.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I was thinking that was about
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what we needed to cover it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It says 481.
MR. BILLEITER: I know last year we didn't have
enough in there, and we had to take it out of another line
item.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, year-to-date, the actual is
I 481.
MR. BILLEITER: 484. And we had --
JUDGE TINLEY: Probably had 450, if you carried over
from what you had previous.
MR. BILLEITER: Yeah, $30 or so.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: David, I really like your
newspaper articles.
MR. BILLEITER: Well, thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Read them all, and I think
they make a difference. I think they help people out. So
that's --
MR. BILLEITER: Surprising how quick a week rolls
I around.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's hard to do.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I wouldn't do it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
MR. BILLEITER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: You say this dog that you're getting
trained up is only going to be the second one here within the
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MR. BILLEITER: The police department has one, and
I'll have one. The county doesn't have any, but, of course,
', they -- the P.D. uses -- they use their dog. But we only have
-- we'll only have two drug dogs. Now, Don Gray has some drug
dogs, but he's not able to get out and use them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Last time I saw Don, he was still
MR. BILLEITER: Don has helped me training, but he's
just not able to get around.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you -- if -- and I'm sure
it's a different certification, but a search and rescue is a
completly different type of training?
MR. BILLEITER: Completely different. I hope to,
after I get her trained, and/or after I get her certified in
dope, to train her to track. She'll only be good in search
and rescue, 'cause she's not aggressive, so I don't want to
use her to track criminals, 'cause she'll go up and lick them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But you can dually train
20 I them?
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MR. BILLEITER: Oh, yes, mm-hmm. Yeah. Drug dog --
dual purpose drug dog goes for $11,000 -- or a dual purpose
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's a big business,
dog.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have four-week-old little
yellow labs right now. Will you train them all? Look at the
money --
MR. BILLEITER: Most of those are coming from
Holland, though.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm trying to lure him into
agreeing to train my dogs.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much personal investment
do you have in that dog?
MR. BILLEITER: About $1,000.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the dog and the feed,
and what about that cage thing?
MR. BILLEITER: Cage cost me $70. Food. I mean,
vet -- overall, probably about $1,000 I've got in her with the
training, with the vet bills. I've had her spayed, all of
that. But it's something I wanted to do, so I'm glad to do
it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it just takes a lot of your
time to train, correct? Isn't it time more than anything
else?
MR. BILLEITER: I have minimum training of 34 hours
a month, but I train her every -- just about every other day,
we train.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's great.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's basically a donation to
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MR. BILLEITER: It's something I wanted to do, yeah,
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: David, one time I was
coming back from Europe and I was in Houston going through
customs, and this Cajun came up and he said, "I'm training
this dog," and the dog was coming down, and he says, "You mind
if I put this package in your bags?" I said, "Okay." The dog
came up there, sat down, did what he's supposed to do, and 500
people at the airport were pointing their fingers at me.
Caught one of those dope dealers.
MR. BILLEITER: I can tell you, training my dog, I
was not thinking, but I hid dope all in my pickup, let her
find it. And I was thinking, I got to go through a checkpoint
down in Del Rio when I go fishing; I sure hope she found it
all. (Laughter.) And she did.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Constable 2.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you know what the capital
outlay was for?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't. I've got a question
mark there, as you'll note.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's a carry-over
from '03-'04. That had to do -- that went back to the days
25 ~ when they were looking for a car.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That shouldn't even be in
I there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Delete that, okay.
MR. BILLEITER: Capital outlay, y'all put that in
our operating equipment.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the lease payment's going to
come out. Right, Tommy?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
MR. BILLEITER: But that wasn't part of that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 71 comes out of the
requested line.
JUDGE TINLEY: He's got no complaints coming. He's
in good shape.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, looks like.
JUDGE TINLEY: Only thing, I cut him on supplies
along with everybody. Okay, let's go to 3. Angel?
MR. GARZA: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: We're up to you. Take out the lease
payments there. Looks to me like the only potential complaint
you have is where we cut your supplies also, in line with
everybody else, to 350.
MR. GARZA: That's fine with me, Your Honor.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. GARZA: I have no problem with that, sir.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Other than that, looks like you're
good to go.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was the capital outlay?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's not a capital outlay.
Actually, that's a -- if you move all those up one line, on --
on the requested line, his training schools, that goes up to
300, and 100 goes up to miscellaneous. 2,500 is operating
equipment.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would that be,
operating equipment?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the same allocation that's
been made to all of them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many miles you got on
~ your car?
MR. GARZA: At this point, Commissioner, about
3,300 miles -- 33,000, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you drive out in the far
eastern part of the county more often?
MR. GARZA: I will do that, sir. I -- I will do
that, sir. I have been doing that. Just --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: More.
MR. GARZA: Yes, sir, I will. I will, sir. I just
-- if you have any more questions, I hope my monthly reports
have been informative to you. I've -- anything I can be of
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assistance, you know, what I'm doing or, like I said, more
miles to our part of the county, I welcome any -- anything
that the Commissioners would like me to explain about my
reports or anything. You know, I'm here. Monthly reports or
anything.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're all fine.
MR. GARZA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Keep writing tickets on the
interstate. Looks like you and Joel aren't doing that as much
as you were for a while.
MR. GARZA: Yeah. What I want to do is, when David
gets his drug dog going again, he's going to be out more
often. That's what I want to do, is be able to assist him if~
he needs to do a K-9 search if he's by himself or
what-have-you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Or you may have someone that you've
detained that might be a good candidate for a little sniff
test.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might ought to pull someone
and then call David over.
JUDGE TINLEY: Before they get to Kimble County.
MR. GARZA: Yeah, or Kendall.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or Kendall.
MR. GARZA: So, on the gasoline, it will be 3,000?
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Or --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MR. GARZA: And the operating equipment will be the
same, $1,000?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, no. Operating equipment's
~ 2, 500.
MR. GARZA: I'm sorry, I mean the vehicle repair and
maintenance. I'm sorry.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm.
MR. GARZA: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably new tires this year as
well, I would imagine.
MR. GARZA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
MR. GARZA: Thank you very much, Commissioners, Your
Honor.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. GARZA: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Precinct 4. Constable Terrell always
I low-balls.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: I've never seen a guy ask for less,
and even when you give it to him, he tries to figure out a way
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not to spend it. I increased his gasoline to 3,000 from his
requested 2,000 to put him in parity with the others. Same
way with vehicle repairs.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He loves his work. I think
if you quit paying him, he'd still come to work.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And he still has his deputy?
', COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. And that's still --
I do check on that. That's still working. If -- when T.D.'s
not quite able to, Bill is, so it's still getting done.
Someday he'll -- he'll want to give that up, and you'll
probably want to think about alternatives, doing something
different.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Is that it for constables?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, indeedy. Now, we had some --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't I see something new
from the County Attorney?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. He's -- he's had some changes
that he's brought to us.
MR. EMERSON: I asked for capital outlay for a new
printer that was submitted. The printer that we have was
purchased used back in, I think, 2000 or 2002. We spent over
$1,000 on maintenance on it in the last 16 months. Seems to
be about every three or four months, and it's just not
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JUDGE TINLEY: And you've got a high volume
operation down there. You pull a lot of paper through one of
those things, don't you?
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. EMERSON: The printer is still usable and could
be transferred to another department that didn't produce the
volume, but I don't think it's feasible for us.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you talk about
attorney's fees? That's gone up a lot the last two or three
years. What -- what's happening there?
MR. EMERSON: Well, that's where last year we -- I
laid off the third person -- attorney, and we dropped to two
attorneys. And to tell you how that's paid off, we're
basically contracting out all the mental health services, and
we're going to pay ballpark between 12,000 and 13,000. We'll
bill the other counties about 55,000.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I remember that, now that
you mention it.
MR. EMERSON: We've turned it into a profit center
instead of a loss.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We like those.
25 ~ JUDGE TINLEY: How many more of those would you like
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to have?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: About all of them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe we can get the City in this.
i COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got your backup on the
personnel -- or increases.
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to -- Judge, are we
going to look at merit increases at the end? Or are we -- I
mean, I know some departments are requesting them. Some
haven't.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they -- I didn't address them
one way or the other in my memo when I sent out the budget
worksheets. I don't recall there being -- except in maybe
three instances at most, where they're even suggested or
requested.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which says something also.
Those that took initiative to request them are probably -- I
mean, they're pushing for it for their people; they probably
deserve it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, I think -- I know the
District Clerk --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: County Attorney.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- County Attorney, and I think Tax
Assessor. And I think Tax Assessor's -- a lot of hers is 12
to 13, 13 to 14. I think that may be a major part of both the
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District Clerk and Tax Assessor.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And District Clerk has a couple
of merit in addition to the 13-14's.
JUDGE TINLEY: What others do we have any issue with
I there?
MR. EMERSON: I don't --
JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't look like I tried to beat up
on you too bad, except when we get down to software.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just keep giving us more money.
JUDGE TINLEY: Bottom line, it's kind of like the
Court Collections Department. I don't generally have a whole
lot of issues with them.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Rex, you heard me ask the
question earlier, is there anything else we can charge for?
Fees? Licenses? Anything -- any other source of revenue?
MR. EMERSON: Not from my department, no.
MR. TROLINGER: Are you going to start charging for
~ tapes and --
MR. EMERSON: We already are.
MR. TROLINGER: Oh.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, reproduction of tapes for --
MR. EMERSON: We started that February 1st.
JUDGE TINLEY: But that's pretty much just passing
on the cost. I don't think, in a criminal case, you can turn
that into a money-maker.
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MR. EMERSON: No, sir. But it is going to make
JUDGE TINLEY: You're offsetting that cost.
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A few months ago, I got a
check from the County Attorney, Hot Check Department, I think
400-some dollars. And it's a hot check I turned in about five
years ago. I'd already given up. And I tell Rex that
business -- small businesses really appreciate that work he
does. 400, 500 bucks here and there can eat all your profit
~ up pretty soon.
MR. EMERSON: And that position is self-funded,
which is nice.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rex, I've got a question --
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- that's a little bit
outside the budget. However, it affects the County as a
whole, I think. One of my favorite things that I see around
the county government family is the community service program,
to see these guys out here working and picking up trash and
watering the flowers, where our full-time employees are not
doing that. They're hopefully doing maintenance-type things.
But it seems that -- that I'm seeing less and less. Do you
think that that's a -- do you think that that's true? I mean,
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MR. EMERSON: So far as the volume of people,
probably yes, because there's a lot of small offenses where we
used to give, you know, 20 to 40 hours of community service,
or some for some real minor offense to go along with the fine;
and the response that we received from the Probation
Department was, "That's a waste of our time. Don't clog up
our system." So, we've quit assessing those small amounts.
So, if we don't have an offense that we feel is justified in
giving more than 40 hours of community service, we don't give
any.
JUDGE TINLEY: Along with that, where there is no
community service, isn't it common for the fine to be a little
bit higher than it normally would have been where there was a
small number of community service hours?
MR. EMERSON: Yes and no. If somebody -- if we're
plea bargaining with somebody, and they tell us they work six
days a week or they have significant family obligations and
can't really do community service, then we'll increase their
fine and let that go, so the County still comes out on top.
But on a small -- on a small offense that normally might have
a couple hundred dollar fine and 20 or 30 hours of community
service, we just let it go.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- when you said
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Probation Department, that pushed that. Is it just
administratively, it takes a lot of time for them to -- to
keep track of community service? Is that where the problem
comes?
MR. EMERSON: That's what was communicated to us.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the reason is 'cause -- I
think that -- I've noticed what Buster's noticed, but also, we
have historically staffed the Maintenance Department primarily
because we rely heavily on community service for the Ag Barn.
And if it's -- if it's going to be a trend where we don't need
-- don't have that -- if that's not going to really be
available, we need to look at increasing staff in that
department, probably. So, if it's -- I mean, so I suspect it
will be a long-term trend. And the other part of that would
be -- probably you're not the right person to ask, but is that
a justifiable request from Adult Probation to cut back on
community service? Or do we need to get Adult Probation in
here to talk to them about that idea? Because it's a big
benefit to the County.
MR. EMERSON: The best response I could give you on~
that is that I think it's important for all the different
departments to work as a team.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. EMERSON: And if one department comes to another
and says, "What you're doing is causing us a hardship," then
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with that, but I'm wondering if it's -- if theirs is an issue.
of needing a part-time person to help keep track of it
administratively. That's a lot cheaper for us than hiring two
maintenance people.
MR. EMERSON: The -- the discussion that -- a
simplified version of the discussion that took place was that
it's too hard for us to place people on jobs when they're only
going to be able to work, say, three days worth of labor on a
particular job. That by the time we train them, it's not
worth putting them there. And my response was along the lines
of, it doesn't seem to me it's too hard to pick up trash or
mow the lawn. It doesn't require a lot of training.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. EMERSON: And they just kept hammering back to
the same point, so we just let it go.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we've been wanting to
-- for a couple of years now, this old water fountain out here
that's sitting idle, we've been waiting for a community
service person that knows how to lay rock or that's going to
be there a long time, but that hasn't come up, and I don't
guess it ever will. I don't know. But that -- that's more of
a long-term type situation.
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MR. EMERSON: It's been my experience in dealing
with community service that if you have a particular need;
i.e., electrical, plumbing, masonry, if you'll put in a -- if
Maintenance or whoever's responsible for -- if a Commissioner
will put in a written request with community service, then
they will keep an eye out for somebody coming through the
system with those skills.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But if they're only here two
weekends, that doesn't do any -- you won't get the job done.
MR. EMERSON: No, but you have a lot of people with
skills that have significantly more probation than that. I
mean, the majority of the community service we give is people
getting anywhere from 60 to 200 hours.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure I understand
the administrative hardship here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's --
MR. EMERSON: Don't shoot the messenger. That's all
I can say.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not. I'm just making a
comment.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You might want to revisit that,
because it does -- I mean, to find out what the problem is,
because like I said, half a person over there -- if that's the
problem, that can be solved a lot cheaper than the alternative
from our standpoint.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They can solve it with a
community service worker for one way.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, they have to have somebody to
supervise.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have to have a supervisor,
and maybe it's that one person; maybe that's the -- I mean, I
don't know what their -- that's the thing. We probably need
to get them back over here, find out what is the -- the
problem on the administration side to having more community
service.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Who supervises them?
JUDGE TINLEY: Danny Edwards.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And he's Adult Probation --
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, he's Adult Probation Department
probation officer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we ask him to come
back over for one of our workshops?
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure he'd be most happy to.
He -- I suspect you probably hear from him, what, nearly every
day?
MS. DAVIDSON: Well, probably twice a week.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that discussion's
between the Court and him, not Alyce and him.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm just mentioning that frequency of
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contact that he's checking in.
MS. DAVIDSON: When we need something, we call them
and ask them. If we're looking for a certain person that --
like Rex said, rock-layer, whatever he might -- electrician,
call him and ask him, and he keeps it. He tags it on his
computer and says, okay, they need it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But there's a -- I mean,
Buster's correct in his -- in his view that we have fewer
working, picking up trash, mowing.
MS. DAVIDSON: We do at this area. Now, Shel stays
busy on the weekends with his crew of 8 to 10 guys usually
during the weekend. But they're people that cannot be around
the public, basically. They have to stay where he can
supervise them out in the county when they're not around
children or --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, not everybody has to be
supervised?
MS. DAVIDSON: Not everybody, no. On certain
levels -- you've got certain levels that come in. We have the
ones that --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's just the
lawnmowing/maintenance side that we've been cut back on, not
at the Ag Barn setup?
MS. DAVIDSON: No, B.J. takes care of pretty much of
our stuff that we need when it comes down to that end.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, we got a little bit off of the
County Attorney's --
MS. DAVIDSON: Sorry about that.
JUDGE TINLEY: With regard to the things that need
to go on out at the Ag Barn, you've either got community
service workers or you've got the chain gang or both?
MS. DAVIDSON: Or we're on the -- or we've got
ourselves as well. A couple of us as well. And during --
community service goes on all during the week. He's got two
or three out there during the week that can't work on the
weekend, or vice-versa, so all during the week we've got
community service workers out there. You're just not seeing
them, being that you're here.
JUDGE TINLEY: And whatever we need done to take the
load off of the regular Maintenance people, we've got the
availability of those people, for -- out at the Ag Barn, for
example?
MS. DAVIDSON: We do at certain places. Remember
that we can't pull them here that are not able to be around
certain people, no. But, yeah, we -- we get -- like, Roy will
have them on the 13th -- 12th to help out with the Extension
Office. We -- we coordinate with Dan Edwards when he needs
them to go certain places, and then we have them for half the
weekend, so we split it out. But they get them for one day on
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courthouse as much, because we usually do, like Rex says, the
smaller hours here at the courthouse. And if they're not
~ going to mess with less than 40 hours, you're not going to see
an abundance of community service workers here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you answered my
question. I appreciate it. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. EMERSON: One more thing I might add, and this
is -- it's not an issue at this point, but once again, just
like last year, we're the only region of Texas that C.P.S.
still has the original attorneys performing -- performing
their legal work. So, with the State cutting back like they
are, and they have put out a request for performance quote for
services in this area, I don't know what's going to happen.
We may very well end up, somewhere midyear, all of a sudden
I
having to take all the C.P.S. cases. And if we do, I'll have•
to come back before y'all. So --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Understood.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir.
MR. EMERSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, this personnel issue on
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to happen, to me. That's longevity.
JUDGE TINLEY: He just -- I think he just made note
of it because he was aware of it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And what about the merit
I increase?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, Wayne is the merit.
Wayne is the merit, and the other is automatic, Rex?
MR. EMERSON: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wayne is the merit?
MR. EMERSON: Correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The other one is automatic?
MR. EMERSON: The other one's automatic. I just --~
I didn't submit the full number when I originally submitted my
budget, so -- 'cause I wasn't sure what the step and grade
schedules were. I finally resorted to guesstimating to the
best of my ability.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there's a lot of work to be
done on this next one.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I want to give you another
copy of mine.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is an updated version?
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MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: I told you this would be a lot of
I work.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hot off the press?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It will change.
MR. TOMLINSON: When we got this new accounting
system, I was using my budget for practice.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What tab is that?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 12.
MR. TOMLINSON: To learn how to use the system. And
I discovered that this part-time line item was part of my
practice, and it shouldn't be there. I forgot I didn't delete
that number, that 15,000, so that comes out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't have it in my budget.
JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't either.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We already deleted it.
MR. TOMLINSON: It's already out of yours? Okay. I
must have given you one earlier -- later than this one. I
just -- the copy I have, I had it in there, so I just want to
make sure --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: -- it wasn't in there.
JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't do anything to you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's unchanged.
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JUDGE TINLEY: I figured you'd figure out a way to
snatch it anyway.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I did want to say that --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now here it comes.
MR. TOMLINSON: -- part of the Assistant's salary, I
-- I estimated a COLA, and I did sort of what Rex did, just
estimated what it would be. And then I added a merit -- a
step for one of my employees. So, I'm asking for a one-step
for one employee.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to say this
format really looks good. I like the way it looks and how you
filled it in.
MR. TOMLINSON: Then the -- I discovered also that
-- that my -- the amount for bonds, Line 206, I actually need
200 instead of 150. I guess that's it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you're adding one
part-time or one person?
MR. TOMLINSON: No I'm not adding any employees. I
just -- I'm just asking for a merit increase for one of my
employees.
JUDGE TINLEY: A one-step?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, one step.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's driving it up from 72
I to 94?
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MR. TOMLINSON: Part of that -- excuse me -- is the
fact that -- that I -- under a contractual basis, when I was
under contract, I was making much less than -- than what my
salary will be. But my salary is the same as -- as I was
making prior to going contractual. Before I had a contractual
agreement, my salary was at that level prior to that, so I'm
asking for the same amount.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, the -- I think you
brought it up to us a while back that you thought we needed to
bring in an intern early replacement or something at some
point.
MR. TOMLINSON: I think so.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- well, I don't know if you
even know how long you'll be here exactly. Be here in the
county, not be here forever. But I guess the question is, how
do you afford to bring in someone who is basically going to
have to be paid at a salary close to what you're getting, I
mean, pretty high salary level as a second person in a
department as small as this? I mean, I understand the need to
bring in the person, but I don't know how you do it, because
you can't bring in an intern. You got to bring in someone
who's qualified to take over, if that's the plan.
MR. TOMLINSON: I would just take a cut in salary.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just reduce your salary and give
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you know.
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or give them a part -- or more,
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To help get it competitive?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We talked about the need to
do that earlier, Tommy and I did, and he suggested he could
hold off in this budget year and consider it during next
budget year. Does that still feel okay?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good plan. I
think we need to probably -- you need to do it, make a much
smoother transition. But that answers the question. Reduce
yours and increase his or hers, okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That brings us to County
Treasurer. I had a voicemail message this morning. The
Treasurer called and indicated that she had unexpectedly been
called out of town, and asked that we reschedule hers until
the next workshop date. And, actually, the -- the budget
worksheet that's been submitted and which has been processed
here before us may be a long ways away from whatever her
actual office operation is going to be, with what else we've
got going on with human resources. So, it might be just as
well that -- you know, whatever we do today, tinkering with
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this, if any, may not be realistic anyway.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we need to defer it,
because there's going to be a substantial change in it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I got a question
~ anyway.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Looking at the salaries --
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is this your
hen-scratching, the numbers -- handwritten numbers?
JUDGE TINLEY: In the requested budget column?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: No, sir. That -- that is the
Treasurer or someone that did it on her behalf.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the Treasurer is
requesting a deputy at 49,000, and zeroing out the part-time?'
Is that what I'm seeing?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I see. I think that's
~ actually --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Two deputies.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think it's two.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or one and a half.
JUDGE TINLEY: Or one and a half, yeah. It's not
one, though.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. So, she's wanting to do
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away with part-time and go to two full-time?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably a
one-and-a-half job there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The woman that works down
there part-time, I guess it is, has been there ever since I've
been around county government.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Full-time/part-time.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What is the deal with her?
Is she -- is she -- she's a part-time employee? Does she get
benefits?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: She does now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think so.
MR. TOMLINSON: She doesn't get insurance.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not insurance, no.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hmm?
MR. TOMLINSON: She does not get insurance.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: She's on fixed hours a
week. Maybe that's what it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know what the hours are,
but --
MR. TOMLINSON: I think it varies from week to week,
but on the average, she works less than 30 hours a week.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But she gets retirement, but not
I insurance.
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Vacation.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's a part-time employee.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that what she prefers?
I'm not sure it makes any difference, but she doesn't want
full-time employment?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's always been my
understanding. I don't know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think she is a full-time
~ employee.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it started out as a -- as a
part-time, but since she doesn't have a full-time down there,
she's been working right up to the 30 hours, I think.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is she paid an hourly rate?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not at this time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anybody else have any
questions about the Treasurer? Okay. Let's move to
Facilities and Maintenance.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 15.
JUDGE TINLEY: 15.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What happened to Alyce?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: She's been here all day.
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MR. EMERSON: Do you want me to ask Kathy to call
I her?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I bet she's right outside.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think she's probably handy there
I somewhere.
MR. EMERSON: I'll see if I can find her, Jon.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That will give me time to ask
a question. Is Alyce the designated supervisor down there?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's two.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got two designated. And
I that's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who is the other one?
JUDGE TINLEY: Maria.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maria. She's over the
custodial end of it, I guess.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maria's over the worker end;
she's over the bookwork end.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, not necessarily that
~ way.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question was going to be,
then, why -- why isn't Maria in the room?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you got to look at
these sheets that Glenn prepared to begin with, and I reviewed
all of this with Alyce down there last week. Judge, if you
look at -- if you look at these sheets, you'll see in a couple
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of them where he's got -- he's put in some major increases for
-- for a couple folks, because he believed that he wanted --
he was trying to convince us to create a two-headed
supervision model, if you will. That's the best word I can
use -- word of choice I can use. "Monster" comes to mind.
I Model.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, he prepared a kind of a
schedule and passed it around.
MS. DAVIDSON: Sorry, I had to take care of
something.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we have to deal with
', that issue. Okay.
I'~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: On our commission -- on our next
Commissioners Court meeting
there, I will.
If you're not putting it on
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I'll put it on.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Alyce, come on up, if you
will. We're not going to get into the personnel aspects of
it, particularly.
MS. DAVIDSON: That's fine.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to review the
things that you and I basically reviewed down there, okay?
And I did go down, Judge, and visit with Alyce for an hour or
so earlier this week and reviewed all of these items on these
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budget sheets, other than the personnel items. And I asked
some questions about them, but essentially the requested
amount and the recommended amount pretty well hold up.
~' MS. DAVIDSON: I do have one I found on 513. I
don't think Glenn realized that he didn't write in the uniform
amount for Sonny. It's a zero amount, and we do use uniforms.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 515?
MS. DAVIDSON: 513-316.
JUDGE TINLEY: Parks Maintenance, yes.
MS. DAVIDSON: Parks Maintenance. So, that is an
adjustment we need to make, please.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What goes in there?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 600.
MS. DAVIDSON: 600.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which line? I'm sorry.
MS. DAVIDSON: It's going to be 513, Uniforms, 316.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you, okay. 600?
MS. DAVIDSON: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: And, other -- other than that, the
items that I addressed are -- I mean, there wasn't a great
deal of --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- changes. The ones that were made
were pretty minor, as I recall.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And going over all that with
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. DAVIDSON: Any major changes on anything.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any major changes to that.
MS. DAVIDSON: Okay, I appreciate it. It's nice --
I like hearing this and understanding it. So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the questions that I did
have, Alyce provided me with some backup. I had some
questions in terms of what constituted the -- certain levels
of repairs, major versus others and so forth, and she provided
me backup on it.
MS. DAVIDSON: Did you go over those, and everything
looked legitimate?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was as you had
MS. DAVIDSON: Contract fees are the part-time help
in the evening and things like that. So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If the Court wants to see
it, I've got it available.
MS. DAVIDSON: Sounds good.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty straightforward.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Just curiosity, what's
trash service under Parks Maintenance?
MS. DAVIDSON: It is our big dumpsters that we pick
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the Ag Barn and we dispose of it from there. And anything
that we bury from here, like records or anything, we use that
out of the trash as well.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: General Schellhase is going
to come -- at my invitation, to come before the Court on the
14th, and he met with Alyce and me downstairs to share with us
a new revised landscaping plan for the Union Church, which
involves taking that old courthouse fencing and getting rid of
the old, having it installed, and a whole new landscaping plan
and an expanded parking -- hard-surface parking, as per the
demands of the City. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Demands of the City?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City. City wants it
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll have to ask them why.
They just do. And, so, what we've reviewed was -- he'll be
here to tell you all about it. I'm not hiding anything; they
just didn't say why. I don't know why -- how they got into
it, but apparently they did. All he wanted to do was review
it with Alyce, and what -- whether or not that affected her
Parks Maintenance budget.
MS. DAVIDSON: We should be able to take care of it.
Again, it comes to the community service workers. We could do
it one day a month to go over there and, you know, clean beds
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158
or whatever. Shel -- Shel can take his crew over there and do
it, so we can work it in.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is he talking about? He
wants the County to spend more money to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no. The Friends of
I the --
MS. DAVIDSON: Just maintenance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Friends of the Union
Church want to raise the money to get it rehabbed. They're
going to raise the money for it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My first -- my first question
that pops in my mind -- and I remember not too long ago,
Schreiner University wasn't real happy about us -- our
building being there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They love it now.
MS. DAVIDSON: They use it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They love it, use it all the
I time.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: New owner of the Ingram Dam I
Shopping Center forced us to remove our port-a-pottys.
MS. DAVIDSON: Port-a-pottys. Have you had any
feedback on that at all?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
MS. DAVIDSON: You have?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: A lot.
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159
MS. DAVIDSON: I bet. So, where do you expect them
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're going in the
MS. DAVIDSON: Right. Isn't that nasty?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your port-a-pottys were over
there on the river side, weren't they?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, but he owns that.
We've got a right-of-way, but we can't put them in the
right-of-way 'cause it's not for that purpose. And now I got
the County Attorney coming around and saying we got a
liability.
MS. DAVIDSON: That's a long ways to walk, though,
if you're up at the dam.
I
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: County Attorney's going to
talk to us next meeting, so we got liability exposure, people
getting hurt on that dam. Of course, there were people
getting hurt on that dam when Buster was 15 years old.
JUDGE TINLEY: Look what it did to him.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Didn't affect me in
any way.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's a big attraction.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The sun is shining today;
when I drive home, there may be 50 people out there on that
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dam.
MS. DAVIDSON: Does he allow them to go to the
bathroom in his store?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, he doesn't own the
store. It's rented out.
MS. DAVIDSON: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: But, in retrospect, it
probably helps him -- he's got a sign up there, "Customers
Only" in the bathroom.
MS. DAVIDSON: Have to buy some gum to go to the
I bathroom.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Got to buy beer.
JUDGE TINLEY: Which brings you back again.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you told the gentleman or
person that he's not being very neighborly?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't care.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: He's from Arizona or New
Mexico, one of those --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Foreign countries.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: -- hostile foreign nations.
MS. DAVIDSON: All right. Is that it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yep.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
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MS. DAVIDSON: Thanks.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Alyce.
MS. DAVIDSON: Bye.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for your patience.
MS. DAVIDSON: You're welcome. Well, I like to
I listen.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, you don't.
MS. DAVIDSON: Kind of took in a little bit, so
I thanks.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't -- I don't have a
proposal on supervisory things, but what I would like to see
is an organization that gets by with one fewer supervisor.
But I don't -- I see several ways to do that, but I don't have
a recommendation.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'm going to put it on
the agenda. I've got some materials to share with the Court
for next time. But we do have -- we have a situation down
there that has to be corrected.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need a real Maintenance
Supervisor.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: The other thing that's
going to come up on Monday that I'll tell you about in advance
is, I've got a petition signed by 35, 40, 45 people. It's
that Pleasure Hill-Bumble Bee-Waltonia area, and they're
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wanting us to build a coffer dam on our Waltonia Crossing to
keep the water level at constant measure, and I told them they
could come up here and plead their case. One of their
representatives will be here Monday.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't seen the ladies
from Bumble Bee Hills for quite some time.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I know what happened
there. The homeowners' association got tired of those
expenses and all that publicity, and they got a new board of
directors, and it doesn't include either one of them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Each of us received, I guess this
morning -- that was the first time I saw it -- an '06-'07
Payroll Proposals. To the best of my understanding, these
were prepared by the Treasurer's office. It's got various
things in here, the new grade/step schedule, the -- and then
various options. The budget comparison, I'm not sure I
understand what all that means. But position schedules, if
I'm reading it correctly, it includes a 4.2 COLA, includes the
longevity, --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 4.2.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- and moving 12 to 13 and 13 to 14.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: And then four is -- is a position
schedule with a 4.2 COLA with no longevity, which I don't --
we got to do the longevity. That's a matter of mandated
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163
JUDGE TINLEY: So I can't see how that would be
beneficial. But then the next one, of course, is 4.2 COLA
with the longevity, leaving 12 and 13 as-is. I guess the only
other option would be -- two other options; one would be not
to move 12 to 13, but move 13 to 14. Or move 12 to 13, but
not 13 to 14, could be	the only	other	option.
COMMISSIONER	LETZ: I	think	under the Number 2 tab,
I think it's a summary of those three items, and it's
longevity, moving 12 to 13, 13 to 14, 4,456,000. Then the
second --
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it costs us about $30,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: 31,000, yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 31,000 to move those grades.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To move 12 to 13's and 13's to
14's costs us about 31,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, actually, it's -- yeah, okay.
Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Couple-three years ago, we
talked about our lowest paid employees, and we looked at some
-- some data that talked about poverty levels and eligibility
for assistance and all that, and our lowest paid employees are
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just not paid very much. Now, I know I'm not going to have to
live with the budget, but if we can find a way to increase
their pay a little bit, I'd sure support that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one, Dave?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Our lowest paid employees.
JUDGE TINLEY: What you're talking about is moving
the 12's to 13's and 13's to 14's.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I'm saying I support
that, and I support it 'cause I think it's the right thing to
I do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. We've hung around
with that 12 way too long.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's not -- I mean, it's --
31,000 is not -- I mean, it's 31,000, but it's not undoable.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And, of course, we -- I don't
think that we're totally and completely hung up with the 4.2,
actually.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's not set in concrete.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, by next week, we'll get
the -- another number will be posted, or shortly thereafter.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we can look at -- which
should get us through the first two, three quarters.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Down through June now.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll get down through June.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're just now wrapping up
July, so we'll be mid-August before we can get July. First
six months. We should get the first six months anytime now.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll get the first nine months
for budget, though. First six months of the year, first nine
months of the budget.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, six months nationwide.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Would you say that in our
clerical and blue-collar jobs, that we're able -- when we have
a vacancy, we're able to attract good candidates, qualified
candidates? What I'm getting at is, we don't pay as much as
some others in the area, Kerrville -- City of Kerrville and
some others. Is that a problem for us? Or are we getting by
with second-class people because we don't pay as much? I
think the answer is no.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a mixed bag,
Commissioner. I think it's a mixed bag.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think you find out the quality
after the fact. I think we're able to fill positions very
quickly, even at the very low end. I think one of the major
attractions is the health benefits package.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Without a doubt.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. And the -- yeah,
and the pension secondarily. But, basically, the health
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166
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Is that more true of blue
collar than it is clerical? Road and Bridge? Ag Barn?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I -- Road and Bridge, I'd --
I'd make a wager that Leonard probably comes closer to getting
what he thinks he's getting, or what he's trying to get,
because of his experience of 35, 40 years dealing with
roadhands, and being in the various capacities he's been in
here. The -- the clerical, that's a department head or .
elected official, and a lot of them don't have the supervisory
and hiring experience that Leonard has had.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, okay. Seemed like
not very long ago, that if you needed a pair of hands for a
day out in the western part of the county, you could take your
pick at 6 bucks an hour. I think that's 12 now, or more.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
I COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Maids -- cleaning ladies
are getting at least 12.
JUDGE TINLEY: And, generally, they're having to be
either paid travel time or transportation, fuel costs, some
stipend for that, or both.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's true.
25 ~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you guys going to approve
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to pay my -- the basic rate on my cell phone, if I use it for
in-county business?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The policy should be up and
down.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Even if I make one phone cal l•
a month?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On your conscience, Buster. On
your conscience.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let your conscience be your
guide.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't know how much I use mine. It
will vary from time to time. Some months it'll be a bunch,
sometimes it will be very little.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's the way mine is
I too .
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I use mine a fair amount, but I
probably wouldn't put in for it, just because I don't --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm probably somewhere
between him and you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I look at it a lot as that -- I
look at it, if the County's paying my phone bill, that means
they probably have the right to look at my phone bill, and I
don't know that I want them looking at my phone bill. I mean,
if you get a stipend, if you get a -- I'd just as soon
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costs me any more to have -- to do my county business on the
phone than I'm -- than it's going to cost me if I don't have
to do county business on the phone.
MR. EMERSON: That's my experience.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, yes, I may use it
20 percent of the time, but it's not going to change my
minutes, 'cause I use it so much as it is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's probably right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I tend to think that
way too, but I guess my real question is, is how close are we
going to look at all of the employees and elected officials?
I mean, I kind of understand how you guys think, but all those
other folks out there, are we going to pay the basic rate of
$69 or whatever it is?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 39, I think.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 39, whatever it is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see a reason why -- I
think, you know, law enforcement people need cell phones, some
of those folks. Road and Bridge has a couple which they need.
J.P.'s need them. That's about it. I don't think Linda
Uecker, Paula Rector, you know, Treasurer, County Clerk. Rex
maybe. I'm not -- you know, I'm not sure. But a lot of the
people I don't think need cell phones, unless they're going to
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get rid of their office phone and use their cell phone
instead.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: J.P.'s do magistration, and I
think that's a requirement for them to be accessible on
weekends.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that, yeah. I
agree with that, but I'm trying -- I'm trying to think, you
know, what would be Paula's argument against that? Hey, when
I'm driving, I go out to the -- when I'm driving out to the
Appraisal District office, and a thought comes and I got to
call back to the office --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What did she do before cell
~ phones?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a convenience, maybe, to
have it, but I don't think it's a requirement.
JUDGE TINLEY: The County Clerk has attempted to
make the case previously that -- something to do with issuing
burial transports, that she's got to have a clerk on call to
issue burial transports, I think it is. Do you recall that?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, I do. One every 117
years.
JUDGE	TINLEY:	On	the -	- on the	J.P.	's,	the
magistration, it	would	seem	like	we could	get	one	phone --
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rotate it.
JUDGE TINLEY: That way, there's just one number.
You don't have to figure out who's on and what number to call.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the J.P.'s and
magistrates, that's a set deal. I mean, if they're -- if it's
their weekend, on Saturday, I mean, they're going to have
somebody to magistrate. There's -- it's not like the jail
calls and says, "Hey, we've got some." That's not the case.
They're there. But the thing of -- what about a bad wreck on
10 at 4 o'clock Sunday morning?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Having to go out and do an inquest at
a scene?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That kind of stuff, see?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, and they normally are going to
call the J.P. of the precinct where that occurred. You're
right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just think there's
something to that --
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- deal.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think J.P.'s, I can see, and
it's not that huge amount. But most of the other offices, I
just really don't see the need for cell phones. I mean, I --
if you want to use your personal one -- if Paula wants to use
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what we're saying, then,
is we designate -- we're going to designate who gets cell
phones and we pay their basic rate, and --
JUDGE TINLEY: Or pay some flat rate amount.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Something. Yeah, something.
So, we're going to designate who gets it and who doesn't?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- well, I'm willing to
listen, but I really can't see the need for -- other than law
enforcement and J.P.'s needing cell phones. Road and Bridge
has a couple, but they don't have very many. They use radios
during the day, and then I think the supervisors have a cell
phone and Leonard, and that's about it. They don't have a
lot.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. That's right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We -- on automobile
reimbursements, we use the state rate for out-of-county
travel, and there's a budgeted amount for that. We haven't
looked at the other automobile reimbursement in a long, long
time. It's still $100, isn't it? That's about two tanks of
22 gas.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: You mean in the -- since we
rolled that into salaries sometime back? It's just a -- it's
a component of salaries.
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COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Seems like it was $1,200
when we rolled it in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which would be $100 a month.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: What -- you recall, this past year
there was a discussion. I think -- I think the Tax Assessor
brought it up, come to think of it, of trying to figure
into -- those elected officials who routinely have to do
in-county travel --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go to the bank.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, not just the bank.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: May have to go down to
Center Point and see about something; may have to go out to
Northwest Hills and various, sundry other places. Jon has to
go down to the east end, Dave to the west end. But those that
do a fair amount of travel, because of fuel costs getting
where they were, and I think that's probably where you're
going, and there was some discussion about that last year.
And, apparently, that one wasn't pursued or --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- I mean, not that it
may cover all of it, but that $1,200 that we set two or three
years ago has been raised by the COLA, so it's been increased.
It's not -- maybe not increased as much as it should have, but
it has been increased, because it's part of our salary.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was put in place more
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number has been self-adjusting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it may not have been
adjusted because of fuel this year as much as the COLA is
going to adjust it, but it has been adjusted.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's true.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You rolled it in in 2002.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: In 2002, you made the
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To roll it in?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: No, it was the year before
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's five years?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It's been $1,200 plus
COLA's; been in place for five years.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So over that time, compounded,
it's probably close to a 20 -- 15 to 20 percent -- probably
16, 17 percent increase, so that travel allowance has been
increased 16 or 17 percent.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As an example, Dave drives
from his house over to Mountain Home to the ESD meeting at
25 ~ Mountain Home. He gets that in-county pay, plus he should get
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', hazardous pay for that; that's the most dangerous place on
earth.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They're getting better. I
think they quit shooting at each other.
JUDGE TINLEY: Required to check their guns at the
door. All of them.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I drove that long way
around Mountain Home to go to that funeral last Saturday,
64 miles.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whoa. One-way or round-trip?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: One-way, 64 miles out
there, and then I came back 27/39; it was 43 miles.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was an $18 trip in
fuel, 20 miles a gallon.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Twenty miles to the gallon
is five times $3; that would be -- yeah, $15 trip.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the point.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. We're just
chit-chatting, Kathy. Let's adjourn.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody else got anything else under
this wide, wide, wide agenda item here? I don't hear anything
else.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to get back to
City/County stuff on another agenda?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 9th, when we meet with them.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We meet with them on the 9th.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to talk about
JUDGE TINLEY: We can get back to it right now, if
you want to. This agenda item will cover it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I -- just let me share
with you for a second my meeting with the Center Point
Volunteer Fire Department. I know you met with Ingram. I met
with the guys for about an hour or so last night, and just
laid out the picture and said, you know, I'm not looking for
concurrence, whether it's -- that you want to do this or don't
want do it. What I want to do is examine the issues, if it
has any merit at all. So, we talked about the issues, and, of
course, they -- they have a hard time understanding how the
City could arrive at its conclusions with respect to a new
contract, and the formula that the City Manager laid out is a
foreign concept to them. Be that as it may --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And everybody else.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, and everybody else.
When we really figured out what the issues were in terms of
manpower, facilities, equipment and so forth, it's probably
not doable in Center Point. Their assessment is we'd need at
least five people to work a 21-shift week. Right? What
you're working is a 21-shift week. So, there's -- that was a
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major expense there. You got to barracks those people; you
got to house them. And you'd have to retrofit their firehouse
for that purpose or build a separate barracks or dormitory,
then equipment upgrades and so forth. So, that's probably not
feasible. And if that's not enough reason, their firehouse is
in the floodplain, and the last time we had a major flood over
there, they had water in the firehouse. So, that's another
very good reason. But they made -- they made a point, Buster,
that they wondered if maybe a better option for us to look at
would be to recreate the Kerrville South Volunteer Fire
Department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd love it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd love it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they said, you know,
when you really stop to think about it from the -- from terms
of setup costs, response time, which I know is a very major
concern for you, he says you'd be better off -- the county
would be better served if you'd reestablish the Kerrville
South Fire Department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay. Poof, there it
is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like magic, it's there.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That was Center Point?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What if we said to Center
Point, "Here's some seed money. You put a satellite over
there in Kerrville South, a satellite volunteer fire
department to kick-start things."
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an interesting
thought, Dave. They -- I'm sure they all -- it's a pretty
tight-knit community, volunteer firefighters throughout the
county, and they know pretty much who's who and where's where.
And I'm not sure they'd latch onto that idea, but they -- I
know that there are a couple of them that have expressed
willingness to help us, and they believe that there are people
out there --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- who could help us
reestablish a fire department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you were going to go that
route, which is a very interesting thought, you'd want to do
it with Turtle Creek that presently has the -- that's their
coverage area.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it would be Turtle Creek,
which is kind of -- they're not as booty-snooty as Center
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could probably come up with some pretty good seed money if we
didn't have to pay that bill.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's just a question of
finding a piece of property,.
JUDGE TINLEY: I got some ideas on that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too. And building the
right building and -- but I think there's people out there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Let me tell you about
Ingram.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Judge is going to be the
new chief.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Following on Bill, I met
with Ray Lynch, and I didn't talk a couple hours; Ray didn't
want to listen that long. I said, "This is not a plan and
it's not an offer, but what would you and your guys think
about if we wanted you to be available on something more than
a volunteer fire department basis, and handle activity -- fire
calls outside your primary area, and be willing to pay
something for you to do that?" He couldn't find anything
wrong with that. I think his only concern would be whether or
not his membership would be willing to make that kind of a --
you said that -- talking about they're a tight-knit group.
That's kind of a vast cultural change.
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179
do. He's going to, at their next meeting --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is a major operational
change or cultural change for them. I guess, realistically,
it's tough to put your arms around that whole -- that whole
animal real quick.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're a tight-knit group, but
even tighter-knit group in each individual fire department.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I talked to Dutch
Hintze, who's, by the way, stepped down as president of Hunt.
He's going to be spending quite a bit of time back east; his
mother is pretty ill, and she won't come down here. And you
all know Dutch. He can get on a soapbox pretty quick. And,
anyhow, he sent me a couple of papers about these issues, and
his -- I can get you copies of those. They're kind of
interesting. His -- when you sort through it all, his main
position is that all of us, Kerrville and volunteer fire
departments, have -- have mutual aid responsibilities, and
that's codified in Texas law. And -- and, moreover, to be
eligible for grants, Forest Service stuff and other things,
you have to perform your mutual aid responsibilities. He's
saying you don't need to be paying Kerrville. They have to
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come out when you need their help.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That point was made last
night in my meeting. They agreed.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm there in my mind.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They agree with that. Why
are you paying for them to come out here? That's part of the
mutual aid. We go help them.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I talked to three fire
departments. Maybe I ought to talk to this -- and said, "How
often do you need help from Kerrville?" And Ray Lynch says,
"We like their personnel. We don't use their equipment, but
we like having some more hands out here." And I said, "When's
the last time you used them?" He said April. So, that's been
quite a while. Hunt says they've used them -- they stated
four times in 10 years. And Mountain Home is so disorganized,
I can't tell. My impression is that they don't have a great
need for them out there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My folks say maybe half a
dozen times in the last two years.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. They don't -- they're
not -- it's not a big amount of time. But I think Buster's
right. I mean, the logical choice is to get -- is to beef up
Turtle Creek and figure out how we do that. If it's building
a -- you know, through interlocal, would they consider doing
an ESD, Kerrville South and Turtle Creek, to get them some
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more funds? As a second step, maybe, for -- or to have some
paid people? Or -- you know, I mean, what is the feeling of
Turtle Creek?
	COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:	I think they	would consider
an ESD.	We haven't talked about	this thing of	doing it in
Kerrville	South or anything like	that, putting	a station in
Kerrville	South. I haven't talke	d to them abo	ut that, but
they're -	- they're receptive to t	alking about	an ESD. I have
had some	conversations with them	about that.	
	COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON:	What would	be the response
time if they were just a volunteer fire department, not
full-time? What would be the response time?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we had a station in
Kerrville South?
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I was thinking from Turtle
Creek to your --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, from Turtle Creek. Well,
you're talking about coming around 16 into town, then back out
there.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Quite a bit longer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's -- where is there a
station on Turtle Creek?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's right next to the
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Across the road.
JUDGE TINLEY: Next to the old schoolhouse.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's right on the -- it's
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I know where it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Used to be further out, just by the
creek there, but they've moved it back up.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There are roads that come
through. There's a shortcut.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: What would Ingram's
A structure fire is -- the structure's going to be burned down
by the time anybody gets there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, but even --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We talked about that last
night, about the response time from either the west or from
the east, and to a Kerrville South fire or to the north. And,
of course, I think it's longer to come in from Center Point; I
think they agree. But once the bridge is open coming in from
Ingram, if it's a Kerrville South fire, it's going to cut off
a lot of response time. It's going to decrease that once that
bridge is open.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. That's true.
25 ~ But the only thing we're talking about is structure fire.
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goes to anyway.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: My fire department's
telling me they don't -- they don't want any help from
Kerrville on grass fires.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: They have to drive around
the trucks to get to it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They do have -- Kerrville has a
grass truck. I mean, if --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have several off-road
trucks. Majority of them are not off-road trucks, but they
have a couple of off-road --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Center Point's new rig that
they've got, they got a brand-new -- the truck's not new, but
the rig is new. They've got front-end sprayer that sprays out
15, 20 feet. Now they don't have to get the truck in the
fire.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Good point.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's property, Judge?
JUDGE TINLEY: I got two pieces of property in mind,
probably the same ones Buster's got in mind. It's in
Kerrville South. I need to talk to you about it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your front yard, Judge.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, hadn't thought of that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's wrong with right there?
the -- over on the east side.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, I certainly don't
know Kerrville South like y'all do, but to get to a lot of the
areas in Kerrville South, even if you have the station in
Kerrville South, you're still never going to get to the house
before it burns down for a structure fire, because of the maze
of the roads out there. I mean, it's a -- it's of benefit
near where the -- you know, it's like in Center Point. I
mean, if it's near the firehouse or downtown Center Point,
they may be able to get there. But, in reality, if you have a
structure fire outside of the city of Kerrville, odds are
you're not going to get there in time, if you're a volunteer
fire department or not.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If my house catches on fire,
it's pretty -- pretty sure it's gone.
JUDGE TINLEY: The key is the ISO rating.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say again?
JUDGE TINLEY: If you got the station, you can get
the proper ISO rating, whether they get there or not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And another key is the water
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quantity, 'cause in many cases you're fighting a fire with
what they've got on board the truck.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's right.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Right. Probably more of a
problem is water availability everywhere.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I'm saying,
yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the other thing is, it's a
-- well, Nimitz is in the city limits, isn't it? Or is it in
the county?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's in the county.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's not in the city limits? They
got the sewer line out there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's county.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tell them to annex the dadgum
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They won't do it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But Nimitz is an issue, but I
cannot imagine that if there's a problem at Nimitz, Kerrville
Fire Department's not going to go out there as fast as
everybody else.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't -- oh, yeah, they
will. Sure they will.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Thinking about how you
might do something there, I'm not sure you're aware of this or
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given and paid for by homeowners' associations. Hunt didn't
put -- Hunt put trucks in them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about, when we get with the
City, go back and say, "We've looked at it; we've discussed it
with our fire departments. We figure, by law, you're
obligated under mutual aid agreement to assist."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't we get Rex to say
that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And go back to say we're willing
to fund at 125,000, same as we have been. No change. And we
think we're being generous.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got to tell you, frankly,
the formula that's being advanced to us is ridiculous.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I'm at the point of
saying take 125,000 or, you know, don't take anything. You
still are obligated by -- we think, you know. Or, you know,
the alternative is you want us to tell all the volunteer fire
departments you're not allowed to go into the city of
Kerrville, which is stupid. We don't have that authority,
anyway. But that's their logic. I mean, it makes no sense to
me.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Capacity. Got a pipeline
that will -- the output is 100,000 barrels; you only want
20,000 barrels. Too bad, you got to buy 100,000.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bottom line is the question
I asked Mr. Hofmann the other day. If the County didn't
contract services with you, would you shut down one fire
station?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They'll build three more.
And we want you to pay for it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all touched on one topic
that I think that this Court needs to promote, and I've been
trying. I was in a homeowners' meeting out 16, Fredericksburg
Road out there on top of the hill. Had a big house fire out
there a couple years ago.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's where the Kerrville Fire
Department saved the slab, wasn't it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They saved the slab. They
sure did.
JUDGE TINLEY: I thought I remembered that.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Washed the ashes off of it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About all they did. They ran
out of water real quick. And one of the concerns out there is
water availability, which in that little area, is -- there's a
little lake down there in that illegal subdivision, and
there's some water down there. So, Turtle Creek donated a
tanker truck -- an old tanker truck they had out there to that
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little area out there, and then I started encouraging the
homeowners in the little group that had all the interest in
going around their neighborhood and actually mapping where
little water tanks are and where the swimming pools are and
that kind of thing. And, you know, build something -- a nice
map to provide to the city of Kerrville and to all volunteer
fire departments when you go out on these -- they used to call
that 7-mile hill. When you get out on 7-mile hill, here's
where the water is. I think we need to do that county-wide.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think almost --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be helpful.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, very much so.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of that, almost every water
storage tank that's now installed has a fire adapter plug-in.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know if they have to,
but I know the local well companies, every one that they've
done recently, I've seen them automatically put on.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Soil Conservation had a
program in there at one time to put in dry hydrants. The last
one I remember them doing was on Fall Creek Road, at -- what's
his name? -- Young's place, I think. He has a big lake out
there. But, you know, maybe we can get them reengaged in
that, 'cause that's a good program.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's not hard to put those
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dry hydrants in. Just a matter of a couple hundred bucks.
Just got to basically have the right kind of thread that
matches the fire trucks.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: This just occurred to me.
If you call Ingram and Hunt out right now, there'll be a
handful of people that get there real quick, and the other 8
or 10 trucks will still be sitting there. And then, as more
people come in or as they need more help, they'll say, "Bring
out some more trucks; we need the water." That's what you're
saying. And they -- they'll wind up shuttling back and forth,
drafting water. All that is to say that maybe Ingram and Hunt
and some others could loan a truck apiece to the new Kerrville
South and say, "That's our truck, but you put it in your fire
department. And if we get a big deal out here where we need
it, we're going to come get it." And they probably never
would come and get it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until it could get up --
till it could get equipped completely.
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I don't know if they'd want
to do it, like to do it, but either one of those two
departments could do it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Hunt -- Hunt ana Lngrant
probably -- Hunt probably has the greatest capacity, and
Ingram secondarily.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Turtle Creek should.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What have they got out
there, Buster?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, just a bunch of trucks; I
don't know one from the other.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are they red?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, they're yellow.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, yellow.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's what I know
about fire.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We got that fire put out?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we've got a -- a workshop
10:30 Monday?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10:30.
JUDGE TINLEY: 10:30 Monday.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It could have been 9:00,
'cause Buster's and my meeting has been canceled, but now it's
10:30.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we can't repost it now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. Too bad.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we stand adjourned.
(Budget workshop adjourned at 3:01 p.m.)
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STATE OF TEXAS I
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my
capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court
of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place
heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of
September, 2006.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY : ___ _ _ .__________ _
Kathy anik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
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