1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT Budget Workshop Friday, August 25, 2006 1:30 p.m. Commissioners' Courtroom Kerr County Courthouse Kerrville, Texas PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4 ABSENT: WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 3 v O d0 O 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I N D E X August 25, 2006 --- Workshop to consider and review FY 2006-07 budget, budget priorities and policies; review of department budgets, consideration of matters having budgetary impact and other matters relating to FY 2006-2007 budget --- Adjourned PAGE 3 22 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 On Friday, August 25, 2006, at 1:30 p.m., a budget workshop of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: P R O C E E D I N G S JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order the Kerr County Commissioners Court budget workshop scheduled for this date and time, Friday, August 25, 2006, at 1:30 p.m. It is that time now. The item on the agenda is a workshop to consider and review FY 2006-07 budgets, budget priorities and policies, review of department budgets, consideration of matters having budgetary impact, and other matters related to FY 2006-2007 budget. Anything that costs money, I think we've got included here. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That sounds like it. JUDGE TINLEY: After we had our -- our meeting Monday a week ago, I prepared a status report of where we were with the budget and my work with the Auditor, and provided each one of y'all with a copy of that. You got yours, Buster? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we need that? JUDGE TINLEY: Well -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got mine, thank you. JUDGE TINLEY: The first thing that I needed to know was, is there anything on that report -- and I furnished a 8-25-06 wk 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 copy to the Auditor to make sure that was factually correct based upon the discussions he and I had had. Is there anything there that you got any question about, need explanation on, or -- we can address those issues first, I suppose. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I do have an announcement to make on the City/County operations. JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The fire contract, the City has agreed to leave it at the 125. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that's what we've ~ budgeted. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. JUDGE TINLEY: In the current run. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The other thing I may want you to take a look at, Commissioner Baldwin, would be the Health and Emergency Services. That's on Page -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. JUDGE TINLEY: -- 6 of that summary. They show a total figure of 260, y'all recall, and what they presented and indicated in our meeting was that it included everything. When I totaled what we've got plugged in, and I think is included in what they think is 260, I only get just under 244. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. Well, I haven't done 8-25-06 wk 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 your math, but let's see. Responder expenses. Is that -- does that include -- let's see. That's for supplies only? JUDGE TINLEY: That's my understanding. They had furnished us with a -- with a sheet, and it was up considerably from 4,000 to 5,000 up to 10,000, as I recall. I've got it here somewhere. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I hear as much from people talking about First Responders as I do anything, and that's true of -- we need to make sure we provide them with equipment and tools to save people's lives. So -- JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, they do a good job. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't even blink when it ~ went up a little bit. JUDGE TINLEY: No, that's a good investment. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But that does not include -- does the 10,400, does that include the First Responder Coordinator's salary? That's built into some other -- JUDGE TINLEY: That may be where -- where the number is off between what I'm showing you as 244 and their -- and the City says is 260 for turnkey for all the emergency health services. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I remember there was a -- there was some salary for him in there somewhere, and the Medical Director. There was some salary in there. But it seemed like to me that was lumped into -- well, you remember, 8-25-06 wk 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you know, first -- I think that's two separate deals. The only thing that we're completely responsible for is the -- is the equipment, you know, the bandaids and whatever all that stuff is. JUDGE TINLEY: Supplies. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Supplies. And then the salary issues I'm talking about is lumped into some other area. JUDGE TINLEY: I made some notes when we were having our discussion about that 260 figure, when I made inquiry of the Fire Chief. It says, "Includes First Responder program and Medical Director and EMS rent." COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what you had written JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But I don't have anything for -- COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. JUDGE TINLEY: -- the coordinator. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I think his salary's folded into that. It's like we send -- we send a certain amount over to the City. That doesn't mean that they automatically route to it his salary. We just send it to them, and then they figure out -- but it's just our -- our part of it. I don't know how to make that any clearer. I think it's lumped in there. I think his salary is, because I 8-25-06 wk 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 that already. JUDGE TINLEY: The First Responder budget that I have now got my hands on has the 10,397 plus. Does not COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right, yeah. That's -- that's what I'm saying. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is the County's part, a separate budget item. And then we send money to the City to pay part of this guy's salary. ~ JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it's rolled into the big EMS contract. And I see you have Medical Director broken out I here. JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. another budget, I think. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: JUDGE TINLEY: But it line is, I don't have a firm ha between 244 and 260. We've got I picked that up out of Mm-hmm. was a separate entry. Bottom ndle on what the difference is $16,000 difference there that I don't -- I don't have a handle on. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if we want to take a 8-25-06 wk 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think we want to do that. Have we got any other questions about that analysis? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. I want to talk a little more about EMS. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: You may have noticed that I've got an agenda item on Monday's meeting where we propose increasing the EMS fees -- rates. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And I've given you a copy of a survey that shows the rates of five close-by EMS services, and what it shows is that we charge a little more than half as much as the others in our neighborhood, which for base rates, we charge 427, and Kendall charges 787. For A.L.S., we charge 525, and Kendall charges 900. Community EMS charges 1,050. We're just -- we're pricing ourselves way, way under what the market -- market is for that. And they're asking us to share, what, 400 and -- our half of a $433,000 deficit. So, I'm going to propose that we increase the rates,. at least of the users that are outside the city limits in Kerr County, to match the Kendall County rates, and propose that we recommend to the City that they do likewise. I don't have enough data, can't get enough data to know if that'll 8-25-06 wk 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 eliminate the shortfall, but it'll come real close to it if it doesn't. What I don't know enough about is how much of a lag there is between the time you bill for the service and the time you put the money in the bank. So, I'm guessing it would -- it would probably eliminate ten-twelfths of the shortfall in the first year. At the end of the first year, if it hasn't eliminated the shortfall, then we ought to raise the rates again. JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all recall when we had our joint meeting, the EMS people acknowledged that their actual cost of service was -- I don't have the specific figure, but they were billing for the base cost 331, I believe it was, and -- and they estimated their actual costs at over 500. Five to 550. And it's beyond me why you would even bill at anything less than base cost to a user. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Judge, all four of these other suppliers -- small county suppliers are charging more than 550, so I know Bandera is recovering their costs. And I. don't know, but I'm guessing, that the other ones are recovering them. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's going to make a great COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: And it's a lot of money, COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. 8-25-06 wk 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Any other items on that budget status analysis? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think we mean the same '~, thing on the first page, personnel generally. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: It says eliminates 12 and 13. Actually, it moves up to -- 12's up to -- JUDGE TINLEY: Up to 13, and 13 to 14. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah, we're both saying the same thing. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Now, to give you an idea of -- of where we are currently, since this was prepared, the Auditor has done another run in which there were certain modifications made, and we added to that, and I gave each of you a copy in your box. Two items. One is the -- we did an estimated Human Resource budget, which came out at something just under 125. And then we did the budget summary sheet, which brings us to -- this is as of yesterday. I gave you a copy of that. I have calculated that end reserve, based on those numbers, at 24.5 percent. And if you'll recall, this time last year, we were looking at something under 20. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. JUDGE TINLEY: It was, like, 19.4 or 19.6. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct. JUDGE TINLEY: So, with those figures as they stand, 8-25-06 wk 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 factor, the new retirement factor. Some of the figures that . were in the old run-ups were -- were different from that, so we've plugged it in at 8.12. What is not included is options. that we might select that we're going to be considering on Monday. The -- the partial lump sum distribution figure I have calculated, and I'll be happy to give it to you, if you'd like. My calculation for that figure is that's going to cost $20,300, roughly. The reducing the total years of service retirement from 30 to 20 is going to cost 11,375. I do not have calculations for the buy-back provision. If you'll recall, they said they were going to have to do some particularized calculations. I talked with them earlier today. They're going to make an effort to try and give me at least a range of percentage so that, for planning purposes, we'll have that available to us. Their understanding was that we wanted it not later than September 15. Actually, what they're shooting for is next Friday, so -- to have it to us. The other thing is the -- the COLA. There's a COLA plug-in for the retirees, and they're in the process of e-mailing me those costs. They've already been sent, but we haven't gotten them yet. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will that be a large number? 8-25-06 wk 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: No, I don't think so. Because, for example, the -- the partial lump sum distribution costs is 20,300. (Ms. Mitchell delivered a message to Judge Tinley.) I may have something here. The folks that do the buy-back are reluctant to give me a "ballpark" figure because of a lot of different variables that go into it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me get those other numbers from you. You have the partial lump sum at 20,300, and there was another -- JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's the years of service, reducing it from 30 to 20. That's 11,375, is what I've calculated. Those numbers are not included in this latest run-up. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do you want to talk today about the merits of that proposal, or do you want to save that till Monday? JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's an agenda item; I suppose it has budgetary impact. We can talk about it. We can't make any decisions on it, of course, but we can certainly talk about it, 'cause it's got budgetary impact. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Well, I'll just go ahead and offer my opinion. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. 8-25-06 wk 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I think if we studied in money on that are more important, including base salaries. And the other thing is, I think it's going in the wrong direction. Those changes would encourage people to leave early -- leave their employment early, and benefits should be designed to keep people on the payroll -- experienced, talented, knowledgeable people -- for as long as we can. JUDGE TINLEY: Are you talking about the 30 to 20 reduction? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. So I'm not going to. be in favor of spending money to make those benefit changes. If there's something else that's important in the employee compensation benefit package, I'd sure be willing to listen to that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm in agreement with you. I'm a little bit -- I can't make a -- I'm having a hard time making a decision on the partial lump sum issue. Seems to me -- I didn't realize it was going to cost so much money, but seems to me that folks -- you know, it's their money sitting there, and they should be able to go with it. But why is it -- why does it cost the taxpayers? JUDGE TINLEY: I think the reason, Commissioner, why 8-25-06 wk 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it -- why it ends up costing is because there are some instances in which some of the employees' contributions, under certain actuarial circumstances, end up -- some of their money ends up being left in the pool, and so it's -- it can then be spread among the other pool participants. But if they take out what was theirs that they put in, just that portion that's theirs, the possibility that -- that some excess money will go into the pool because of early deaths, early circumstances, survivor annuitants, early demise, stuff like that, it doesn't -- it doesn't remain in the pool. That's my understanding for the reason for that cost. But what I have a hard time coming to grips with is, it's their money. It's money they put in there. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. JUDGE TINLEY: And to tell them they can't take it out is -- I have some problem with that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I do too. Actually, I think it's a foolish thing to take that money out, 'cause you're penalized so heavily with taxes. But -- JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think there's a way they can roll it over if they're very careful about it. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Still their -- still their money. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, is that 20,300 -- is 8-25-06 wk 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it's based upon next year's payroll. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd probably like to see what the buy-back numbers are going to be before we get -- will we know that by Monday? JUDGE TINLEY: No, we will not know by Monday. We may know it by next Friday, but the only numbers I can give you now are on the partial lump sum and the decreased years of service from 30 to 20. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can tell you right now, I don't like the decrease in years. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: On the 198th -- I don't know if we're going there or not. 198th, 216th -- no, it doesn't go in there. There's nothing in here that addresses combining the Chief Juvenile Probation Officer's job with the Juvenile Detention Facility Director's job. JUDGE TINLEY: No. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's still on the table. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's a bulldog. Not going to 8-25-06 wk 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. There's -- Tommy, did I hit all of the additions that we made from this status report up MR. TOMLINSON: I think so. JUDGE TINLEY: As recently as this morning, I had a discussion with Tommy, and he said he thinks, for all practical intents and purposes, we're basically there. We've got these few little wrinkles, I think, in the retirement system issues. I wanted to -- to have a workshop today, because in order to start the meter running for the advertisements for proposed tax rate and those sorts of things, we've got to establish a proposed tax rate, and that is on the agenda for Monday. And so I -- I figured you gentlemen would need this information as a springboard to being able to do that proposed tax rate. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we need to look at -- we need to look at how much money we got coming in. We need to look at our wish list. And if our reserves have gone to 24 percent, what -- where's -- what's our safe number? 20? MR. TOMLINSON: That's as good a number as 24. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 24 is a good number? MR. TOMLINSON: I'm okay with that. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we're not going to tinker with that. All right. So, how much do -- do we want, and how 8-25-06 wk 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 much do we have? That's the only thing I need to know. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Do we have a good feel now for where we stand? We've got some $923,000 extra revenue due to appreciation on property prices. Do we have a feel for how many dollars we attach to our wish list? JUDGE TINLEY: Well, those dollars are -- are plugged in at the current tax rate, based on certified values. And with those plugged in, and what we've got on this status analysis, leaving out only the retirement options that we're looking at, we are at the 24.5 percent reserves. That's current, at the current tax rate. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Does that mean we're not spending -- increasing spending by more than 923,000? JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to let the Auditor take a shot at that one. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Are we looking at the same thing, Judge? MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know that. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's not what you had. JUDGE TINLEY: No. MR. TOMLINSON: Not off-the-cuff. JUDGE TINLEY: No, it should say at the top of it, "As of 8-24." (Discussion off the record.) JUDGE TINLEY: I thought I put one in your box. I'm 8-25-06 wk 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sorry if you didn't get it. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Probably did. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much revenue do we have? JUDGE TINLEY: General fund? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. JUDGE TINLEY: Looks li ke 12,885 roughly. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are the expenditures -- the budget wish list there somewhere? JUDGE TINLEY: Are the expenditures itemized here greater than that? Yea h. 13,561 -- 562. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Okay. Give me thos e two numbers again, please, Judge. Expenditures, I've got 13,561. JUDGE TINLEY: What's t he number I just gave you? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 13,562, and then the revenue is 12,885. JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Zero that one out. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So that's 600. JUDGE TINLEY: 670. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: 600-some thousand dollar deficit spending. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Million here, a million there; pretty soon it runs into real money. JUDGE TINLEY: The good news is that the reserve -- the reserve percentage is coming up with that. Part of that 8-25-06 wk 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is because the ending balances going into this fiscal year are higher than what they were originally pegged to be. Revenues were probably higher. The Auditor is very conservative when he plugs in revenues, but he tries to be very realistic when he talks about expenditures. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: That's true. JUDGE TINLEY: What else? Have you got what you need in order to think about what you want to propose on the tax rate come Monday? Or got the information where you can get there? COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. $600,000 deficit. JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. 677 is what I calculate. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably needs to be some kind of exercise to reduce the -- reduce that number. And, to me, there's two ways to do it, and that's go back and cut things, or raise taxes. And the second one is not a very good option. JUDGE TINLEY: I would agree. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I know that deficit spending is kind of a popular thing, but it's still not, in my opinion, a good way to do business with other people's money. So, to answer your question, I don't think that I could, Monday, adopt a tax rate. JUDGE TINLEY: We wouldn't be adopting one. 8-25-06 wk 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Setting one. JUDGE TINLEY: I get in trouble every time I use the term "adopt" with the Tax Assessor there. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know. I know. Setting one. "Set" is the correct word? MS. RECTOR: Discuss the proposed rate, which is pretty much the rate that you're counting on adopting. COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. . MS. RECTOR: That has to be done by Monday in order to keep the calendar straight to adopt the rate by the 20th of September. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So, do we know right now if we -- we're willing to assume the $677 deficit, how much of a tax increase that would be? JUDGE TINLEY: To cover that? MR. TOMLINSON: I -- JUDGE TINLEY: If you wanted it -- if you wanted the -- if you wanted the thing to balance, it would probably be 2.6, thereabouts. MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I don't -- I don't think -- I don't think it's a good decision to make to levy a tax to maintain a fund balance over what we -- what our policy is. And so I think, as long as, in my mind, the -- the adequate fund balances is what we're -- the direction we need to be. So, whether or not we use a new tax rate to get there or lower 8-25-06 wk 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 expenditures to get there or use our fund balance to get there, as long as we're -- we get to a point that we're going to be, I think it's okay. So, I think to use -- to use the fund balance is -- is, I think, the fiscal thing to do. Because if you -- if you raise -- if you tax enough to maintain the same fund balance, then all you're doing is -- is levying a tax to do that, and I don't think that's what you want to do. I mean, I think you'd really get beaten up for that. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: So -- I only do this once a year, so I forget get from year to year what I learned last year. So we can spend the $677,000 and not raise the tax rate, and still have a fund balance that's satisfactory? MR. TOMLINSON: That's exactly right. I -- I've heard some criticism, actually, from -- actually from City people that -- that have a problem with us keeping that large a fund balance. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Yeah. MR. TOMLINSON: And they -- they don't live in the same world that we do, but -- so I think that we have reason to -- I mean, good justification -- COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: Sure. MR. TOMLINSON: -- to keep our fund balance there. COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: We just don't need to take any money away from taxpayers and put it in our bank account 8-25-06 wk 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-25-06 wk 22 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 STATE OF TEXAS I COUNTY OF KERR The above and foregoing is a true and complete transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 4th day of October, 2006. JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk BY: __ ___ _ --- Kathy nik, Deputy County Clerk Certified Shorthand Reporter 8-25-06 wk