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KERRVILLE CITY COUNCIL
and
KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Joint Meeting
Monday, February 6, 2006
8:00 a.m.
KPUB Meeting Room
2250 Memorial Boulevard
Kerrville, Texas
Kerrville City Council:
EUGENE C. SMITH, Mayor Pro Tem
TODD A. BOCK, Councilperson, Place 1
CARL MEEK, Councilperson, Place 2
DAVID WAMPLER, Councilperson, Place 3
CHUCK COLEMAN, Councilperson, Place 4
PAUL HOFMANN, City Manager
Kerr County Commissioners Court:
PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge -g
H A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 ~
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 "9
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 ~
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On Monday, February 6, 2006, at 8:00 a.m., a joint
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held at the
KPUB Meeting Room, 2250 Memorial Boulevard, Kerrville, Texas,
and the following proceedings were had:
P R O C E E D I N G S
MAYOR SMITH: We're having a lot of conversation
going on here. I think we should call to order before we get
in trouble. Our lawyers will be fussing at us here in a
minute. I'd like to call the -- to order the Kerrville City
Council meeting for a joint meeting of the County
Commissioners at 8:33 on February the 6th, 2006.
JUDGE TINLEY: And on behalf of the Kerr County
Commissioners Court, let me call to order the joint meeting of
Kerr County Commissioners Court and City of Kerrville
scheduled and posted for this time and date, Monday, February
6th, 2006, at 8 a.m. We had breakfast previously, and we're
getting underway at -- looks like about 8:33.
MAYOR SMITH: We have a very open-ended agenda here,
and perhaps it might be in order if we let our City Manager
kind of start things off.
MR. HOFMANN: Sure. If it's okay, I'll just give
you a little bit of an update on what's going on with the City
of Kerrville and some of the things we see coming up over the
next several weeks or months. The City Council met in a
planning retreat all day Monday and half day Tuesday of last
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week. I thought it went very well. It was the first step in
kind of a broad outline I provided for the City Council on how
we should begin the process of strategic planning and project
identification. The real goal of the -- the retreat was to
get a sense of our priorities for the next year and a half
through the end of fiscal '06, and to start to think about the
fiscal year after that, '07.
We started out the day Monday morning with an
overview of what's in the comprehensive plan, the
comprehensive plan that was approved by the City Council in
2001 after a significant amount of -- of community input and
-- and development. That discussion took, I think, a couple
of hours, as I -- as I recall. That's a very broad and, as
the name implies, comprehensive document, and there's a lot of
stuff in it. A lot of stuff in it about implementation and
action plans, and that's really what the focus of the
presentation was about. And, Councilmembers, please join in
and fill in the blanks where I leave blanks as I go here. The
primary point of discussion in the comprehensive plan overview
was what the plan says about the provision of utility service
to undeveloped areas. City Council said that they would like
to visit that policy statement some more, and so we will be
creating a plan for doing that over the next several weeks.
City Council also met last June -- this was before I
was here and before Councilmember Coleman was appointed to the
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City Council -- in, I guess, kind of a mini-retreat where
Council identified a handful of projects or priorities, and we
quickly overviewed that list of priorities with the City
Council to see if there was any new direction there.
MAYOR SMITH: That meeting is our primary initial
meeting trying to work on a budget. It's really what our --
that meeting's for.
MR. HOFMANN: That's right. Yes, it is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paul, in your -- when we were
working on the ETJ issue, I know there was a -- the City had
a -- a draft of an annex plan as we go into the future that
was part of -- was kind of based on that. Is that going to --
you're looking a little bit blank on it.
MR. HOFMANN: Yeah, I'm not aware of a plan.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, there was -- the map
that -- where the ETJ --
MR. HOFMANN: Oh, no, I got you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The probable areas for
annexation. Not a timeline or anything.
MR. HOFMANN: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that going to be formalized
or made public, or -- you know.
MR. HOFMANN: We11, I'll let any member of the City
Council or the mayor correct me here, but I don't see that as
where our most short-term priorities are. I think we need to
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wrap our hands around our policy about providing service to
undeveloped areas. And if you look back --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Within city limits?
MR. HOFMANN: Within the city limits. Because one
of the -- "conclusions" might be a strong word, but one of the
conclusions of that comprehensive plan document back in 2001
is that there is -- there is quite a bit of developable
property within the existing city limits. And, as has become
pretty apparent over the last few months, quite a bit of that
area doesn't have utility. The comprehensive plan seems to --
well, I think more than seems to. The -- the approach laid
out in the comprehensive plan is that development property
owners will bring that utility extension to it as it develops,
and that's what we need to talk more about. To me, we need to
deal with how we're going to develop within the city and
within the ETJ before we start extending ourselves, and maybe
that's the thinking of this Council. But creating an
annexation plan didn't come up on our priority list.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- my thinkinq is --
is two areas I'm thinking about right now. One is the County,
in Kerrville South area, has done quite a bit through grants
to extend sewer service and all that, which all y'all are
aware of, and I was wondering, is there any plan to annex some
of those areas, since utilities have come in and kind been
extended? The other areas I'm thinking about, there's a
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number of pockets kind of up in the Holdsworth area, the end
of Roy. If you go down Roy Street right now, the first -- you
know, up to Thurman is city limits, and all of a sudden, it
changes and it's county, and so the County's maintaining half
of the street, and -- you know, and it's just an awkward
situation. And it's -- Roy is one that's clearly city --
should be in the city. I don't see the reason that it -- and
I don't mean, like, a big annexation. I just mean a cleanup
as Holdsworth gets complete and is developed. And there are
areas up there where the city limits line kind of zigs and
zags, the county here and the city here, and it just makes
sense to clean up some of those areas a little bit, maybe try
to get out to the interstate as a dividing line or something
like that. It's just -- you know, I didn't know if that was
on the horizon for the City or not.
MAYOR. SMITH: Well, don't we have six months to kind
of iron out some of these matters on our ETJ?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: These -- this isn't really an
ETJ issue. This is more just -- I don't think we've ever
discussed it with the City; "Hey, here's some areas we think
y'all should probably take."
MAYOR SMITH: Yeah. Well --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least I think you should
probably take it.
MAYOR SMITH: I know that Holdsworth is kind of
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tunny; you start off and then there's a lot of county there,
and it seems to me --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know also a lot of folks
that live in Kerrville South area, where the wastewater
project is underway, have a large hidden fear that that's what
would happen when the wastewater project was concluded, and
that -- that question has been directed to me on more than one
occasion.
MR. HOFMANN: The fear is that the -- what's the
fear?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon?
MR. HOFMANN: What is the fear?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The fear is that once the
wastewater project is completed and hooked up, that they will
be annexed.
MR. HOFMANN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It goes both ways.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kerrville South Water
Company, too
MR. HOFMANN: Well, state -- and you guys probably
all know this pretty well. State law's changed pretty
significantly over the last several years as it regards
cities' ability to annex, and if we're -- and I think it was
1999 when it most significantly changed. And then -- and in
summary, if the City is to annex a developed area, then cities
z-e-oe ~~_~.
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essentially have	to provide	three	years	of	notice with	a
pretty detailed	service plan	. If	it is	an	undeveloped	area,
MR. HAYES: 100, yeah.
MR. HOFMANN: Residences, then the -- the
requirements quite -- aren't quite as stringent. But one of
the things the City does have to comply with is service
delivery requirements that are more stringent than they were
prior to 1999. Obviously, the City would need to look at the
fiscal impact of annexation of a developed area, 'cause then
we're obligated to extend services. And even if utilities are
already there, there's services on the general government
side, like fire protection and police protection. And
typically -- typically, and I'm saying this without really
looking at it, a residential development annexation doesn't
cover the cost of the City's extending services on the general
government side.
COMMISSION
it up is really more
somebody calls the -
or, I mean, right in
city limits, and the
then it comes under
;R LETZ: I think my reason for bringing
-- it's just the effectiveness. If
- you know, a 911 call from out on Roy,
the middle of the city, surrounded by
Sheriff has to respond. And, you know,
-- you know, it's under some of our other
agreements where the City responds a lot and there's backup.
But it's just -- to me, it's an awkward situation in some of
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these areas, and is it going to -- financially, does it make
sense for the City to do it? Probably never. But does it
make sense from a practical standpoint of roads and law
enforcement and EMS? Yes, it probably does. And I just -- I
hate to see us get in a situation where, because it's
financially not attractive to the city to annex, that these
areas get bypassed when they should be -- and, I mean, the
City's been -- you know, Comanche Trace they've annexed, and
now out in Whiskey Canyon area. They've certainly been very
-- when new developments are coming in, they go in and are
part of the big development plan, but I see areas being jumped
over that should be in the city limits, and they basically
should be receiving city services. Anyway -- well, it's
something we've never looked at from the Court standpoint and
tried to designate these areas. I just thought I'd put it on
the table.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Having now referenced it,
Commissioner, when it's reported in the newspaper, I can
assure you my phone will light up like a Christmas tree.
MAYOR SMITH: Well, I heard no discussion whatsoever
about the City annexing South Kerrville, so if those people
are worried --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be sure and qet that quote,
what the mayor just. said.
MAYOF. SMITH; I have not. I have not heard it.

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to
Maybe there's other guys here, but I feel -- I haven't heard
anything. If the people are worried about it, they don't
have -- they don't have much to worry about, I don't imagine.
MR. COLEMAN: Would it help if we had a map that
highlighted some of those areas that might be --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would probably be -- the
first step is to start looking at them, This is a long
process, as I understand, if it's ever done. And it may --
you know, maybe the answer is to just leave it the way it is,
but I think it should be looked at at some point.
JUDGE TINLEY: The transition from city to county
streets, such as Roy and that area, brings up another
possibility. I know the City has had a concern about playing
catch-up with their street repair and maintenance and
resealcoating and things of that nature. I certainly don't
want to take our Road and Bridge Department and overload them,
but it occurs to me that we may be able to provide some
assistance to you folks under an interlocal agreement on
helping you with that program more efficiently than you could
go out and contract it to be done or get fully into the
business yourself. We've got, and have over the years
acquired a good -- good number of pieces of equipment to
handle that sort of thing, and while I don't think we probably
have adequate -- adequate people on the payroll right now,
with the proper interlocal agreement. and a plan in place,
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there might be a possibility that we could expand our ability
to do that sort of work and help you folks out.
Like I say, I don't want to -- I know Road and
Bridge Administrator is not here, and he's probably going to
strangle me when he -- when he hears of this, but he's managed
to run a pretty efficient operation there, and I think he's
got most of our roadways -- I don't know what the last count
was; probably something -- 10 miles or maybe under of our
county roads that are not fully sealcoated now. And he's --
he's done a good job getting it there. May well be that we
could make some headway.
MR. HOFMANN: Thank you. And, actually, this came
up at our previous meeting, and I would -- if it'd be okay,
I'd like for our Public Works Director, Charlie Hastings, to
get in touch with Leonard Odom and start hammering out the
basic outline of an interlocal agreement, and bring that back
to our respective entities.
DODGE TINLEY: I sure see it as something that we
ought to explore.
MR. HOFMANN: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: We get better utilization of our
equipment, more efficiency of utilizing it more, and you folks
get your plan accomplished at less cost, hopefully. Mike,
where are we on municipal court?
MR. HAYES: What do you mean?

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JUDGE TINLEY: Well, at one point in time, there was
exploration of the legalities. I know previously, prior to
Mr. Hoffman's arrival, there was some information furnished to
us where it was being accomplished in other counties that are
a comparable size, and I think other legal questions have been
raised with -- maybe I'm not totally up to speed on that.
MR. HAYES: My recollection is that really kind of
never went anywhere. After we looked at the courtroom space
and the courtroom availability, that because we couldn't
assure ourselves of being in those courtrooms or any courtroom
in the county building on a set day every week, which we
really need to do, it really didn't go anywhere from there.
And I wasn't involved in that. I know that Ilse, when she was
on -- you know, working for the City, looked into it. I'm not
sure if Rex has looked into it, if it's -- this may have even
predated his tenure in office. So --
MAYGR SMITH: Judge, you're talking about doing the
entire function, 100 percent of it, replacing the municipal
judge. I know I talked to some of the court -- the judges,
and they didn't seem to like the idea that we would be taking
some of their courtroom time away from them. So, just kind of

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-- in my mind, I kind of dropped the issue.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I --
MAYOR SMITH: At one time, there was some discussion
about the County taking over 100 perr_ent of the municipal
judge's work. Is that what you're --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think -- I think it was
somewhat of an open-ended situation, starting at the low end
of -- of trying to find some space for you folks to operate
your own system all the way to contracting with Kerr County to
handle the entire court function, or anywhere in between. I'm
sure there's all sorts of options. And I don't think there
was -- I think the issue arose initially because of the space
issue, and -- and we looked at that. And while looking at
that, it -- then it started to emerge that there were other --
other counties that had, by contract, been performing the
entire judicial function for cities. And that -- that
predated Mr. Hofmann, and I didn't know whether that was still
in the mix or not. Obviously, apparently, from what you're
saying, it's not something that's very high on the radar
screen at this point.
MR. MOCK: We11, I know one -- Gene, you and I are
on the Municipal Court oversight, if I'm not mistaken, and we
were supposed to have had a meeting in -- in December, and I
don't --
MAYOR SMITH: Didn't need to have it.
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MR. MOCK: Yeah, I don't think -- we never had that
meeting. That meeting never came about. We met earlier --
when was that? August, I believe it was.
MAYOR SMITH: Yes.
MR. MOCK: I believe it was in August. And then,
actually, we were supposed to have another one in December to
discuss and get another overview of where the Court was. I
know they were changing some functions, changing some -- going
to look at changing some dates. I don't know where they're at
in that. And I think it would be very beneficial if we had
another --
MAYOR SMITH: Why don't you pick a time? We'll get
together on it. You're working, and all I'm doing is
twiddling my fingers, so I can be available at your
convenience.
MR. MOCK: Paul, if you can do that, if you would?
We had -- we had everyone there from municipal court, the
judge, all of the staff there, and they just kind of gave an
overview and some of their concerning issues and main issues,
and -- we had Mr. Davis there, and I think Mr. Brooks there.
MAYOR SMITH: I was in San Antonio at a meeting with
Mr. -- our Congressman, Mr. Bonilla, so the newspapers said I
didn't attend the meeting. But I had -- I can't -- I haven't
been able to figure out how to be two places at once yet, but
I'm workinq on it.

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MR. COLEMAN: I guess we're continuing to experience
space shortage requirements? We're still short on space?
MR. MOCK: I think so, yeah. I think that's going
to be a definite issue. One of the -- I mean, even -- even if
they streamline, Chuck, some of the -- some of the issues that
they had as far as the lines and the amount of people there at
one time, I don't think it's sufficient space, regardless.
You know, even administrative space. I mean, that's one thing
that seems to be the -- that was the main focus, is where do
they put all their files? I mean --
MR. COLEMAN: And the jury, when they deliberate.
MR. MOCK: Right. The administrative side of the
court is actually using what is designated as court space when
there is no court in there, and when they have court, then
they go in and they remove all of their materials from the
courtroom back into the administrative side while they're in
court, and then put it all back in there. So, that's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to say that this
conversation has been going on for eight or ten years, maybe.
I mean, I'm not saying that as a bad thing, but it's -- this
is not something brand-new, that -- you know, and I don't
think it's going to be -- unless y'all just completely fix the
thing, I don't think it's going to go away. You know, we're
going to keep talking about it. And I think what the Judge is
saying is that options are still on the table for us, far as
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we're concerned. And you can go to that courthouse just about
any hour of the day, and there's a courtroom available,
almost. Of course, you know, those Distrir_t Judges have first
shot at everything. On earth. And so I think -- I think it's
a matter of scheduling to get that done. But options are on
the table, whatever you want to do.
JUDGE TINLEY: We've got an EMS committee that's
going to be reporting -- next month, is it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: End of March.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before April 1.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we'll be talking about
their recommendations. And one of those -- and this is
hopefully not going to land in the newspaper. The -- one of
their recommendations is that we take -- take y'all up on your
offer of sending us the monthly report that the City Council
gets. Did I say that right? Or isn't that -- we had -- some
of us had talked about that in the past, that whatever the
City Council gets as far as a monthly report, y'all could just
zap one on over to us. You know, that's going to be one of
their recommendations. When they make that recommendation, we
want to accept it. I'd like to accept it today. If you can
zap one over to us, kind of get the thing started.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what they're -- they


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gave a preliminary report to the Court, was that there was
discussion about us getting more information, and from their
research, that hasn`t happened yet, bottom line.
MR. COLEMAN: Financial statements? Are they
reports of service?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Runs and billings.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Utilization reports.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whatever you get.
MR. COLEMAN: What did you say?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Utilization report, I think.
COMMISSIONER. BALDWIN: Whatever -- do y'all, the
City Council, get a monthly --
MR. WAMPLER: We don't.
MR. MUCK: Not a financial report.
MR. COLEMAN: We get a fire department report and a
police department report. I don't know --
MR, WAMPLER: Numbers of runs and numbers of arrests
and types of arrests.
MR. HOFMANN: Right.
MR. WAMPLER: Kind of a general statistical report
on the activity of, say, the P.D. And I'm not even aware
of -- do we qet that on the fire department? Maybe we do.
MR. COLEMAN; We've been getting it on fire
department.
MR. WAMPLER: Sut we don't get a detailed financial
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report or any kind of a --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
MR. WAMPLER: -- a billing run or anything like
that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a utilization
statement.
JUDGE TINLEY: Quarterly basis? Is financial on a
quarterly basis?
MR. HOFMANN: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Maybe that -- I think the
monthly and quarterly was maybe confused. And I think there
was some discussion at one point in time of going from
quarterly to monthly; I don't know. But just basically
whatever you guys get relative to EMS operations, whether it's
monthly, quarterly, whenever.
MR. COLEMAN: I personally support you guys getting
all the information that we get.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whatever. It wasn't -- they say
they -- you know, I think they're working with Brian probably
more than anybody else on this. That the reports are in the
city that they think would be beneficial to the County,
whether monthly, quarterly, or whatever.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- and then in the month
of April, we're going -- what we have labeled as "off-season"
meetings, we want to add the EMS part of it as -- as -- in
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that mix so we can start preparing our budget.
COMMISSIGNER LETZ: Just as a subject, we brought
the EMS up. Not trying to preempt the committee's final
results, but the early indication is that the City's doing a
great job on all areas of it, and the current contract is very
close to what probably they're going to recommend we continue
with. So, I mean, it's a -- all of the -- we're not getting
ready to go through another round over EMS. It appears that
we've -- that's behind us, and what we negotiated last summer
is probably going to be pretty close to what's going to go on
in the future, at least their recommendation. So, I don't
want y'all to get all worried we're going to have another
fight over EMS.
DODGE TINLEY: Have you -- have you folks got a
preliminary plan for the joint City/County preliminary budget
workshops that we used -- we used to hold? I think the last
two years, we've not been able to, but prior, I found them
personally to be very, very helpful insofar as communication
and exchange of information. The -- so we don't end up like
we did towards the very end of the year last year of having a
bunch of pretty contentious loose-end issues. We don't want
that, and I'm sure you guys don't want it either. And I
didn't know where we were on trying to put that together. It
normally takes place, if I'm not mistaken, June, July, in
that --
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jurie.
JIIDGE TINLEY: -- time frame.
MR. HOFMANN: I haven't suggested this to my Council
yet. In fact, on February 14th, at the next City Council
meeting, I will overview a recommended budget calendar with
them where I will attempt to piece together how all this works
relative to what the city charter says is my responsibility
for putting a budget together, and how to communicate that
with the various County liaisons on elements that affect our
budget, like the library and -- and EMS, and other things as
well. As I understand it, if the County will typically have
-- one of you will be a liaison, for example, on the EMS
subject or on the library subject. And what -- and we have an
agreement that I think we're looking at some minor amendments
to on the library. There's an agreement that's -- that speaks
to how al] this works and on what timeline it will work. I'm
hoping to bring all this together in a schedule that makes
sense.
What that -- what that schedule will entail is an
August meeting. If we continue to do these meetings twice --
twice a year on six-month intervals, the next six months is in
August. And, in my mind, from what I think a budget calendar
ought to look like that makes sense for the next big meeting,
the next joint meeting of the City Council and the
Commissioners Court where, specifically, one of the items on
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that agenda could be the specific areas in the City's budget
that is impacted by the County's budget or vice-versa. And
prior to that, I would like the opportunity to work with, say,
Commissioner Baldwin on EMS issues or Commissioner Nicholson,
and the Library Board on library issues, 'cause all of this
has to roll together. Like -- and the library issue kind of
complicates it, because there's a Library Board out there that
has specific budget recommendation responsibility, as I do,
and I just need to make sure it all kind of fits together.
And it -- it will.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- an August time
frame -- or it depends on what's done. I mean, the airport
and the library, they have their own boards, and then the --
there's liaisons for the other joint activities. By August,
we're hopefully 75 to 90 percent done with our budget. We --
we -- and I think we just start a lot earlier than the City.
But, really, by -- we do most of our workshops July and early
August.
MR. HOFMANN: See, the difference with us is what
the city charter says, and what the city charter says about my
schedule and what my responsibilities are. I won't have a
budget to share with the City Council until July the 31st or
thereabouts, and so it'll be August when the detailed budget
workshops happen with the City Council where they're looking
at what my recommended budget is. Now, that's not to say we

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can't have a joint meeting before the beginning of August, but
if we do, it'll be without the benefit of a budget
recommendation from the City Manager.
JUDGE TINLEY: Be tentative. Tentative numbers.
And --
MR. HOFMANN: Well, it -- okay. I'm not -- right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think --
MR. HOFMANN: To the extent I'm going to want --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: This year's going to be a lot
different than prior years, because the airport's going to
be -- I mean, that's going to be driven by the Airport Board,
when the preliminary numbers are ready for the City to look
at, or the City and County to look at. The Library's going to
be done basically the same way as the airport.
MR. COLEMAN: EMS study.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: EMS is going to be one that's
going to be held up. As long as we're communicating and aware
of what's going on going back and forth, that shouldn't be a
problem, and those are the three big ones. I mean, there's
Animal Control. We'll have those numbers, you know, to the
City probably -- preliminary numbers, probably by the first of
July or so, early July.
MAYOR SMITH: We have certain timing that kind of
governs things. Our City Council elution is -- is in May,
and then the new Councilmen will take office, so we need to
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get them on board before we can have our June meetings to
establish priorities so the City management can proceed. So,
it will be sometimes in June before we get instructions from
the City Council to proceed. So, we can kind of have -- I
understand what you need there. As far as -- as the library
and the Airport Board, those are still -- even though they
propose a budget, still have to be approved by our -- both of
our bodies, so -- so if one comes in, and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MAYOR SMITH: You know, it still takes a little
work. So, I'd say probably the -- sometimes around the first
of August is about as fast as the City can give you the
information.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as we have preliminary
numbers. I think we will from the library, and the airport,
we'll definitely have preliminary numbers.
MR. HOFMANN: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the EMS, we'll have
that number working through the year, and we have an
interlocal agreement that I really think that's going to work
a lot smother. And Animal Control is more like EMS, and I
think we -- most of the problems have been fired on the budget
side by what we did this past year.
MR. HOFMANN: Except for figuring out what to pay
for everything.

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MAYOR SMITH: Only money.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. The liaison plan will
work, you know. We can just use ballpark numbers to kind of
just keep us --
MR. HOFMANN: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- keep us in the game, at
least until Auqust. I wasn't aware of this time frame thing
for y'all. That's interesting. Is that -- is that your own
charter, or is that --
MR. HOFMANN: That's pretty typical. And, in fact,
every city I've worked for, it either says 5n days before
October 1st or end of July, which is the same thing.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to go back to the
EMS for just a second, if I might. We're anticipating that
preliminary report from -- from folks who are working with us
and examining it, and I expect --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not preliminary report.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, this -- we've already
had the preliminary. The final report, I'm sorry. Thank you
for correcting me. And I want to express appreciation for the
information we've gotten. But I think, as -- as good as their
final report is going to be, I think it is going to identify
one or two issues that probably need to be -- we need to sit
down and resolve, which will affect the budget. And I'm not
on that subcommittee, and I'm not asking to be on that

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subcommittee. But I'm -- I'm hopeful that once that final
report is in, and the issues that need to be worked out in
advance, we have the opportunity to do that, because that will
affect the budget.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We will try. And being on
that committee is not for little children.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. Thanks for
not inviting me.
MAYOR SMITH: One of the things on these committees,
we all have representatives, ex-officio or actual members of
the committee, and it should be the responsibility of the
people that are on those committees to communicate with your
-- your own body to kind of get an idea of what's going on.
So, I think that's pretty important. Most of the problems we
have is all -- goes around communication, and so all we have
to do is kind of get all this stuff -- information to the
right people as soon as possible.
MR. MOCK: And I think, Mr. Hofmann, in our retreat,
aren't we looking to -- for ourselves, as well as with the new
personnel that we've hired in the accounting, to come up with
some more effi~~ient monthly reports?
MR. HOFMANN: Yes. That is something we talked
about, yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all's employee health benefits, are
y'all on a calendar year or fiscal, or how -- what's the


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policy period?
MR. HOFMANN: Fiscal.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MAYOR SMITH: October 1st.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're on a calendar. We had
talked about it at a previous meeting, of looking at, you
know, possible ways to save both of us money in that area.
i MR. HOFMANN: Yeah. And I don't have a report to
give today, other than to say we're still looking at it, and
have asked our consultant to look at our opportunities to
combine efforts with other entities in general, and see if
there's a potential savings.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who's the City consultant?
MR. HOFMANN; You know, I can't remember the firm
name. Mike or Brenda can let me know, but the gentleman's
name is Larry Pittman.
MR, HAYES: Roach Howard.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Roach Howard? I mean, the
County uses Gary Looney out of San Antonio. And it will be --
makes probably the most sense to get the two consultants to
talk, because --
MR. HGFMANN: Good idea.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- they're going to know a lot
quicker than --
MR. HOFMANN; That's right.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- certainly I'm going to
understand whether this makes sense at all. If we can get
that name to y'all -- we'll send that name over to you so they
can communicate.
MR. MEEK: Paul, in, I think, the T.M.L. calendar,
there's some upcoming meeting of counties and cities. Is --
where was that meeting and when is it? Do you --
MR. HOFMANN: I can't remember. We will have
someone there. Eut I'll try to get that information back --
MR. MEEK: We'll share that with the County also.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that an employee health benefits
or employee benefits --
MR. MEEK: It's not just health, but it includes
health. It is joint -- exactly what you're talking about,
Judge; it's a banding together of numerous entities for cost
savings. It's coming up pretty shortly.
MR, HOFMANN: Yeah, it is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would sure save on the
service. It would make sense to -- whether you're talking
about the City or County, for both of us to get into large
pools, because I'm sure y'all are like us, that one or two big
claims or issues really can mess up your premiums for the
following year, and we need to get into a larger pool than we
both have, probably, to help lower that risk a little bit.
MR. COLEMAN: And you all have approximately 300

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employees?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Little over 300. Probably three
-- there's -- on the health insurance, there's, I think, 310
last time we checked in.
MR. COLEMAN: We're probably a little more.
MR. HOFMANN: Right at 300.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're about the same size.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I think the -- there's a
considerable difference on the -- on the dependent coverage on
y'all's side from our side, but the employee I think is pretty
much the same. Stop loss. Where are y'all on stop loss?
MR. HOFMANN: 70.
MR. MEEK: 70,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: 70? 75?
MR. HOFMANN: 70,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I think we're at 50, so
there's a difference there. I suspect on pool coverage, you
pretty much have to equalize the plans. That, again, of
course, will be a question for the consultants to --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we may be so far off that it
would be hard to do that. But, you know, I think it's worth
looking at, certainly. But I suspect we're not that far off.
I mean, we've done some new things in the past couple years to
try to he]p our costs, like the health savings plan -- or
health savings accounts and things of that nature.
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MR. HOFMANN: Riqht.
COMMISSIONER LETZ:
Which have been pretty
successful.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not always popular, but pretty
successful from a cost standpoint.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: From a budget standpoint,
successful.
JUDGE TINLEY: What else we got, gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- just time frame, work
on the ETJ. The mayor brought up earlier, we have six months
to kind of go through those problems. What's your timetable
on when we should start going -- I guess we're probably into
our second month now. When do y'all want to sit down and kind
of see what we need to look at?
MR. HOFMANN: Yeah. Mr. Menzies did put together a
schedule. I'm not recollecting it as I sit here, but I'll get
that information to you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because there are a couple of
areas that I know we didn't think about, such as floodplain in
the ETJ, O.S.S.F. in the ETJ. I know they're being addressed,
and we've kind of handled them one-on-one, but I think we need
to ]ook ar those and make sure that those things were -- have
been -- kLnd of to make sure we're doing those the best way.
And if we need to -- and if there may be some ways to do some
interlocal agreements to switch some of those functions around

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in those areas to make them a little bit more efficient, it
may be wise; may not. But we didn't really think about that.
MR. HOFMANN: You mean in terms of who is the
Floodplain Administrator?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- in the ETJ right now,
still the County has to do it, which means it has to go out to
Road and Bridge, and that's something I don't know why the
City couldn't take over that function through interlocal
agreement.
MR. HOFMANN: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: O.S.S,F., I mean, y'all don't
have any equivalent department, so that probably has to come
back through the County, but we just need to make sure that
we're all -- all bases are covered. And there may be a few
other areas. T know we had some areas --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Water availability.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Water availability.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Water availability was another
one. Headwaters and -- you know how all that works. I --
Headwaters and the County have worked very closely trying to
come up with well-spacing, lot size configuration and all
that. And I'm not -- I don't know if the City was involved in
any of that or not, or if y'all even have the authority to do
water availability.
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MR. HOFMANN: I was visited by a member of the
Headwaters Board, who told me that they were looking at
well-sparing criteria, amending well-spacing criteria, and I
encouraged him to -- just as soon as they have something to
share, to share it, and if we need to amend our Subdivision
Code to comply with it, then that's what we would recommend to
the City Council.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause, I mean, it's -- I have
to go back in to, you know, look -- we have both -- attorneys
on both sides. Counties have no authority to set lot sizes,
but we can set lot sizes based on water availability, which is
what we have done. In the ET J, you know, we were mandated --
we have to come up with one set of rules. And y'all set -- I
mean --
MR. HOFMANN:	If --	can	we	set	lot	sizes?
COMMISSIONER	LETZ:	Can	y'	all	set	lot sizes in the
ETJ?
MR. HOFMANN: Yes, we can, sure. And that was one
of the things we said we would look at over the next six
months.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. HOFMANN: 'Cause right now, it's nonexistent.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Anyway, it's -- so,
okay. Well, Paul has the schedule, and he'll get that over to
us so we can --
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MR. HOFMANN: Yep.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- take a look at that.
MR. HOFMANN: But I didn't -- I wasn't thinking
about the Floodplain Administrator thing, and I think you make
a good point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just --
MR. HOFMANN: It's not something I remember coming
up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. It just --
MR. HOFMANN: I don't think we would have to do it,
because, you know, we are sharing plats as we go. Who is your
Floodplain Administrator?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard Odom. But the problem
comes in, if the County continues to do that, then the -- then
the whole purpose of this -- to make it so the developers have
one-stop shopping, they're going to still have to then go out
to Road and Bridge to get that done.
MR. HOFMANN: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Even though it's not part of --
MR. HOFMANN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- the platting process.
MR. HOFMANN: I think it makes sense. We can look
at doing that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As long as the fee structure is
similar, I don't think there should be any problem with that.

33

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MR. HOFMANN: Okay. In fact -- Mike, I don't mean
to put you on the spot. What -- do you know what our
floodplain ordinance says about floodplain administration in
the ETJ? State law lets us do it.
MR. HAYES: I don't know what it says off the top of
my head.
MR. HOFMANN: A11 right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody got anything else? Going
once.
MR. COLEMAN: Now, before we close, in preparation
for our next meeting, it would help me if we could qet a set
of minutes that kind of recap these topics that we were
discussing. That could help me focus the night before.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we can -- Kathy's
taking down word-for-word, and once she gets her work
completed and gets it printed up in language that you and I
can understand, we'll be happy to send y'all copies of it.
MR. COLEMAN: Well, it would help me just before, --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
MR. COLEMAN: -- in preparation for our meeting, if
I revisit mentally some of these things we've talked about.
JUDGE TINLEY: Verbatim transcripts are -- there's a
link on our website that you can go straight to every one of
them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true.
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MR. COLEMAN: That's a good thing.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Takes her a while, though,
'cause she covers not only us, but covers State Hospital,
covers several different courts, so it takes her a little
while to get it up there.
MR. COLEMAN: And, Buster, if you'd peek at Brenda's
pad there, hers is probably equally as hard to read as hers.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everything about Brenda is
hard to read.
MR. COLEMAN: You're on your own now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We came in the door together
with that. Thank you guys for breakfast; it was fantastic.
Very good. Very good, and the kind thought the wonderful.
JUDGE TINLEY: We appreciate your hospitality.
Appreciate the opportunity to jawbone about these things
that --
MAYOR SMITH: Well, next time we might have a later
meal; might cost a little more.
JUDGE TINLEY: I see. But, of course, at that time
it will be our turn, won't it?
MAYOR SMITH: Yeah.
MR. MEEK: Exactly.
MAYOR SMITH: I haven't put my foot in my mouth yet,
so I might as well do that and get it over with. I was
talking with my brother-in-law that lives in Doss, and they

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have a volunteer fire department, a volunteer EMS. I said,
"How do you get your equipment?" They're all -- we get it all
in grants. I think they had three brush trucks, a pumper
truck, a utility truck and a tanker, and they have an EMS
unit, and it's all volunteer. "They don't charge anybody
anything," is what he said. Now, I don't know; it seemed like
there would be some charges there, but they provide a service
free. They get 800 -- $8,000 from the county, and they raise
their other money with barbecues and things like that. And
Kerrville has a first -- a first-class fire department. We
get our ratings down low on our -- the amount of insurance
everybody pays, and we -- we have trained people on our EMS
vehicles and everything. So -- so, we're trying to provide a
first-class service for our citizens, and then they fuss about
maybe the taxes are too high. Well, it's very difficult to
run a first-class operation without money.
So -- so -- but it -- you hear somebody like that;
period. And there's just things that have to mesh in, and
it's up to cur citizens to tell us what kind of -- what kind
of a service they want from us. And, like the library; the
library's open 56 hours a week or something like that. Well,
if people don't want to pay for the library, well, we cut down
the services. That's -- I don't think that's the answer, but
25 ~ it's kind of up to our citizens to tell us. We can make

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recommendations and provide services, and as far as I'm
concerned, I would like for Kerrville and Kerr County to be
first-class governmental bodies providing these services as
best we can for people. So, when we're going through this
budget process, I guess we have to scratch our heads; are we
providing too much or not enough and so forth. So, there I'm
putting my foot in my mouth, so that's the end of my
conversation in that regard.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Fredericksburg and
Bandera and Doss and all those have the volunteer. What they
do is they have a couple of hired people that are on around
the clock type thing, but basically volunteer. But this
Commissioner will tell you that we don't want to go that
route.
MAYOR SMITH: Well, that's what I think. We --
Kerrville used to have a volunteer --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're doing pretty good.
MAYOR SMITH: I think we're doing good. I think
we're buying good services for our citizens in these -- in
these functions that we have.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, you're providing
top-of-the-line services, in my opinion.
MAYOR SMITH: Sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I really think that this
particular community is -- they demand that. The people that

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I know and I deal with as my constituents demand that quality
of service, and that's what I want to give them.
MAYOR SMITH: Yeah. And they have to pay for it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They -- oh, yeah, they have
to pay for it.
MAYOR SMITH: So that --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have to pay for it. Hell,
I'm a taxpayer.
MAYOR SMITH: I mean -- oh, speaking of putting your
-- putting your foot in your mouth, I had our financial people
determine what part of the property taxes that go to the
County had come from within the city.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You are putting your foot in
your mouth.
MAYOR SMITH: 97 percent. So, we are -- the city is
part of the county, and 47 percent of your property taxes come
from within the city limits.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And sales tax is the reverse.
MAYOR SMITH: You cheap guys, y'all don't spend any
money. I wish I could figure out what that is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's not hard.
MAYOR SMITH: If you come into town and buy
groceries, there's no sales tax on groceries.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's just the opposite of
the others. Just take 53 percent of the sales tax, Gene; you
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got the answer.
MAYOR SMITH: Okay, whatever you say.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I figured it out. I'll send it
over to you.
MAYOR SMITH: Okay, if you have the answer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I can just tell you that, you
know, proportionately, if you assume the, you know, people are
going to shop in the city of Kerrville, county residents will,
then they're subsidizing the city as -- it works both ways. I
think it came out -- I forgot how close it was, but the
property tax versus sales tax was within 10 percentage points
of each other in dollars, so it's not that big of an issue one
way or the other.
MAYOR SMITH: Well, we need to spend our citizens'
money wisely. That's the answer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree with that.
MAYOR SMITH: Okay. Do we have anything else?
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything from the County standpoint?
Thank you, gentlemen. Appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next meeting?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: August.
MR. HOFMANN: First week in August, and we'll work
on creating a schedule. Is that okay?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First week in August.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not later than first week in August.

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MR. HOFMANN: Not later than first week in August;
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is one other topic I
wanted to bring up. It's not City/County, but has to do with
rural transportation. And there is a service provided by --
by A.R.T., Alamo Regional Transit. The County subsidizes it
to the tune of about 8,500 a year, 8,800, whatever it is.
I'll be happy to provide you the statistics of what takes
place in rural transportation. It all flows out of the bus
depot on Schreiner Street, which is a separate issue, but
that's where it comes from. And the amount of services
provided is really quite interesting, the number of trips.
And the trips take -- are for Kerr County citizens, whether
they're in the city or our outside the city, 60 and under and
60 and over. There's a dividing line, and that has to do with
But
it's almost like a taxi service, because it's not scheduled,
but it takes people without transportation, regardless of age,
to the doctor, if they have no transportation, to shopping,
all sorts of things that are vital to their quality of life
and the necessities of life. All I'm doing is saying, when
you guys are considering your budget, I would urge you to do
as the County is doing and support rural transportation.
Doesn't take a lot, but I think you ought to be a player in it
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as well.
MR. MEEK: Does that include people in the city
limits also?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
MAYOR SMITH: I know you're real active in AACOG,
and the City hasn't been active to the -- your extent. Of
course, you're on the board. Is there any particular meeting
that would -- that I could go to, and maybe the City Manager
go down and it would be -- I know they have a whole bunch of
little meetings. Is there any particular meeting we could go
to that would have an overview of what AACOG does?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're welcome at any board
meeting. As you know, the structure of the board is -- there
are more people who could come from cities than there are from
counties, so the counties and the cities divide up into groups
regionally and choose their representative for the board. But
you're welcome any time. And if you think it's important or
would like to have an overview session, I'll arrange it with
Al Notzon, and we'll get all the various department heads
together, criminal justice, environmental, the grants people,
the whole bit, and we can put that together if that's
something you'd like to do.
MR. COLEMAN: I'd like to see that myself, just from
an educational standpoint.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is an important function
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to -- to our city and county governments. There's over $25
million of money that comes floating through, and it's going
someplace. And our goal, sitting in a place like Kerr County,
is to make sure we get our share, 'cause there's a big gorilla
that sits in the middle, and he definitely gets his share.
MAYOR SMITH: San Antonio. Well, I think it's
important that we -- that we become more knowledgeable, at
least me personally, and I'm sure that some of the other
Council people might be interested.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be happy to play a part in
arranging that.
MAYOR SMITH: Okay. Well, Paul, I guess try to
figure out a proper time, 'cause I think you should definitely
be there.
MR. HOFMANN: Well, I heard a couple of Council
members express interest, and so -- you know, and that's
great. It's -- now it's a meeting, so we'll need to schedule
that accordingly. If it's okay, I'll get with Commissioner
Williams and --
MAYOR SMITH: Could they come up here to have a --
so we could have a meeting with our City Council? Or should
we go down there? We'll have to have a --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll put in a call and see
what I can find out.
MR. HOFMANN: Appreciate it.
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MAYOR SMITH: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wouldn't it be best, though,
if they went to San Antonio so they r_ould see the full
function?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It probably would, Buster,
because the criminal justice element's there, the police
academy's there and all of the various departments are there,
and you could be stepped through everything that takes place.
It might be better if --
MR. HOFMANN: Just a matter of scheduling it and
posting it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll talk it out.
MAYOR SMITH: We can schedule a posted meeting in
some remote area.
MR. HOFMANN: Sure.
MAYOR SMITH: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty extensive operation going on
down there.
MAYOR SMITH:
going to give away some
when we go down.
JUDGE TINLEY:
County? If not, I'll d
MAYOP. SMITH:
at 9:27.
Yeah. Well, it seems like if they're
money, we ought to have our hand out
Anything else on behalf of the
eclare that our meeting is adjourned.
City Council meeting is adjourned alsc

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(Joint meeting adjourned at 9:27 a.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my
capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court
of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place
heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 8th day of
February, 2006.
JANNETT PIEFER, Kerr County Clerk
BY: __ ___ g____ __ _ __ __
Kathy ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
-h-or ~,_