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KERR COUNTY JUVENILE FACILITY
BOARD OF TRUSTEES MEETING
Monday, April 24, 2006
11:41 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
DAVE NICHOLSON, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
April 24, 2006
1.1 Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action
to rescind previous Board order(s) which directed
that all detention operations be moved to the
newer annex building at the Kerr County Juvenile
Facility
--- Adjourned
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On Monday, April 24, 2006, at 11:41 a.m., a meeting of
the Kerr County Juvenile Facility Board of Trustees was held
in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
P R O C E E D I N G S
April the 29th, 2006, at 11 a.m. It's past that time now. We
were delayed because of Commissioners Court business. The
item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and take
annex building at the Kerr County Juvenile Facility. I put
that item on the agenda. I wanted the Court to have an
opportunity to review the possible implications of that order
before it got fully implemented. My primary reasoning is, the
older building of the two out there at the detention facility
is grandfathered in, by virtue of when it was built and when
it was placed into use, and I am concerned that if we cease to
use that older building for detention operations, and then at
some subsequent point in time, decide that we want to utilize
it for detention operations of any kind, that we may have some
compliance -- facility compliance issues with the Texas
Juvenile Probation Commission.
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And, by way of example, sometime back, we had -- we
had considerable interaction with the Juvenile Probation
Commission concerning 12 -- what are determined "dry cells"
and commode, and there was a question whether or not we could
utilize those cells for juveniles. And finally, when the
smoke cleared, because of the date the facility was built and
placed in operation, and the facility standards came into
effect later, it ended up we were grandfathered and could use
those. That's one issue. There are some other issues that --
Just the one on the dry cells alone, I have no idea what it
would cost, with all that concrete and steel, to install
plumbing into those 12 dry cells, but if -- if there's not
a -- a compelling business or staffing reason or some
overwhelming reason that -- that we should discontinue
juvenile operations in the older building, I think it would be
appropriate for us to rescind that order in order that we can
keep our options open for detention operations and not have to
really be having to be concerned with a lot of facility
compliance issues otherwise if we discontinue its use.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My understanding was that there
the new building. I was -- I don't think it was brought up
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and discussed, this issue that you brought up today. But, I
you know, it would be interesting to find out -- and maybe you
know, Judge -- what will trigger losing the grandfathered
status. I mean, is it -- you said operations --
MR. STANTON: I -- when I saw this on the agenda
Juvenile Probation Commission and asked him -- asked him that
exact question, of what would -- what would cause that, and
his reply to me -- and I'm waiting to get it in writing, but
his reply to me was, as long as the Juvenile Board didn't
request a decertification of the building, that the
grandfather clause and that the certification continue until
the next certification date, which I believe is in January, is
when the buildings are certified again. And then, at that
point, the Juvenile Board would then need to look at the
facility to make sure that nothing has happened in the
building that would -- as far as it going down even further.
That they could request -- because both buildings -- in the
certification that was provided to the Juvenile Probation
Commission, both buildings were certified as pre and post
facilities, and if they weren't separated out, it was a joint
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deal of 72 beds, I believe is how many beds it was. And so,
according to Scott Friedman with the Juvenile Probation
Commission, we're okay. I'm just waiting to get that in
writing from them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the -- so, as of January --
MR. STANTON: As of January, the Juvenile Board
would have to walk through -- yes, sir, the Juvenile Board
would have to do another walk-through, and then -- like we
always do, and have to request a certification of both
buildings.
JUDGE TINLEY: Kevin, if the -- if there were
maintenance issues that arose in the older building --
MR. STANTON: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- between now and January, and those
maintenance issues were not addressed or otherwise rectified,
of course, at that point, the Juvenile Board would -- would
pretty much be required to decertify the older building?
MR. STANTON: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: And at that point is when it would --
it would lose its grandfathered status, according to the
information that you got from Mr. Friedman?
MR. STANTON: According -- the only way that it
would lose its decertification -- or lose its certification
between now and January is if the Juvenile Board went in and
asked T.J.P.C. to decertify the building.
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JUDGE TINLEY: So, I guess my point is, if there are
maintenance issues in order for it to continue to be
certified, the maintenance issues would have to be resolved.
MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. To keep it up to standards,
~ yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. STANTON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In terms of ease of
operation, based on the size that we seem to be heading, which
is downsizing, --
MR. STANTON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- would you like to give us
your point of view on that issue, on ease of operation and
staffing?
MR. STANTON: Well, I mean, the way we've got it set
up now using the new building, the staffing ratios and being
able to hold eight kids per room -- or per dorm, it would be
-- the staffing would be easier in the new building than the
old building.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the new building?
MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, just being able to -- with
the number of kids and watching the kids, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: With all that, I mean, my
feeling would be to, you know, use the new building, but we
don't want to let the old one go down the tubes. But I think
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during this interim period, we had discussed having -- I think
we discussed, anyway, having someone look at that building and
other options for both buildings, possibly for other uses.
And not saying that we're closing the doors totally on using
it as a juvenile facility, but see what is required to bring
it up for an additional jail facility or female adult
facility, also for office space and that kind of thing; that I
think I'd like to see -- before we start spending a bunch of
money to keep it up as a juvenile facility, I'd like to get
those things done. Clearly, we need to keep the plumbing
working, A/C working, you know, things of that nature, the
pest control services continue. I mean, it's going to be used
for something; it's not going to be junked from that
standpoint. I think the Maintenance Department needs to look
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'd like to take your
continue in operation in the older building, what would we
face in the next 12 months -- 6 to 12 months in terms
of maintenance and repairs?
MR. HOLEKAMP: Well, I would -- excuse me. I would
like to think several of the major-ticket items that we've
done in the last six months would pay off a reward as to not
having to go back in and do a whole lot more in the old
building to keep it up. If we -- you know, if -- I think
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Commissioner Letz kind of said it; if you keep the drains
open, I mean, watered, flush commodes, keep air-conditioners
running, the only problem is -- is you'll have a large utility
expense with no activity, unless you're going to staff it.
So -- so I don't know how -- and you fellows are the ones with
the money, I mean, as far as how it works. But I -- I don't
know how we can maintain it without leaving it somewhat
running.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you -- I mean, I think a
air in the old high school, and pipes broke, floors buckled
and everything else. So, I think you need to maybe set the
thermostat a little bit higher for the summer; maybe
78 degrees, something like that, as opposed to whatever you
normally operate it at. And it can be -- I think we try to
minimize utilities, but clearly, we don't want to turn
everything off. That's the worst thing to do, no matter what.
I mean, you -- we'd never recover if we started to turn
everything off in that building for any use. So, I think we
need to keep it ready to go, but, you know, do the things --
do, like, thermostat levels and things of that nature.
MR. HOLEKAMP: Commissioner Williams' question
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may be a little easier to handle from the standpoint we got
quite a bit of history with -- with some of the things there.
But anything that gets 10, 11, 12 years old, you start running
into issues that you -- you don't have in a new building. New
load of juveniles. We haven't pushed the control system,
because it's been minimally used, so there's some unknowns
there. Now, the air conditioning and that sort of thing on
the new building should be -- there's no reason to believe
that it won't perform. Of course, you can't compare the two,
because the way they function is completely different. So,
it's y'all's choice. I -- my questions were, and you're
answering them, is I don't know to what extent we'd want to
operate those two buildings, both buildings.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you -- like I said, I
think we need to keep the thermostats up, keep everything else
working in it, and I think anytime there's a repair, I think
if it's any kind of a major item, I think it needs to be
fixed. I mean --
COMMISSIONER NICHOLSON: I would guess that in our
budgeting process, there's going to be conversation about the
future of those buildings and how they can be utilized to
minimize costs to the taxpayers. I think we ought to keep
them going and make sure they don't deteriorate until we have
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these discussions about a plan for the future.
MR. STANTON: At this point, the only thing that
we're using the old building for is we're still using the
laundry services over there. We've contracted all the meal
services out with different agencies, and so at night, we
still use the washers and dryers over there, is the only thing
at this point that we're using.
JUDGE TINLEY: When did Mr. Friedman indicate he
might get this written commitment to you?
MR. STANTON: I talked to him on his cell phone just
a few minutes ago.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. STANTON: Or about 30 minutes ago. And he was
going to talk to Luis Guerrero, and they would get me
something as soon as they could.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. My primary concern, of course,
would -- I just did not want to jeopardize our grandfathered
status, because if -- if we did that and we went back and
tried to utilize it, even, of course, maintaining it at a
minimal level, the cost to bring it up to facility standards
would really be astronomical, and it would probably be out of
reach, not be viable. Okay. Anything else on this particular
agenda item? We will adjourn the Kerr County Juvenile
Facility Board of Trustees meeting, and I will reconvene the
Kerr County Commissioners Court agenda.
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(Kerr County Juvenile Facility Board of Trustees
meeting adjourned at 11:55 a.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my
capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court
of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place
heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 27th day of
April, 2006.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY : _ ~ _ __ _______
Kathy B ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
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