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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Budget Workshop
Wednesday, July 25, 2007
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4

V

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I N D E X	
July 25, 2007	
	PAGE
Review and discuss FY 2007-08 Budgets and fiscal,	
capital expenditure and personnel matters related	
thereto for various County Departments, including,	
~' but not limited to the following departments:	
General discussion	3
Health insurance-update by insurance consultant	17
Adult Probation	43
District Clerk	46
Justice of the Peace 1, 2, 3 & 4	63
Constables 1, 2, 3 & 4	88
County Attorney	100
County Auditor	103
County Treasurer	111
Tax Assessor	115
Facilities and Maintenance	122
District Attorneys	179
Information Technology	181
County Court at Law	190
Adjourned	192
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~I the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
!i open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this
Commissioners Court workshop scheduled for this date and time,
Wednesday, July the 25th, 2007, at 9 a.m. It is that time
now. This is a budget workshop, and before we -- before we
get into individual budgets, there's some things I want to
pitch out on the table, and I don't know that we can
necessarily make -- come to any consensus or direction at this
point in time, because, number one, our tax rolls are not
certified, and per a conversation I had with the Tax
Assessor/Collector yesterday, normally those tax rolls -- the
tax roll is required to be certified, I believe, by July 29th,
if I'm not mistaken.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe that's right.
JUDGE TINLEY: The Tax Assessor advised me yesterday
that it was going to be approximately August the 10th, because
the Appraisal District was late getting their notices out, so
we're behind the curve almost another two weeks, if we get
them in. I'm not sure. But until we get the certified tax
rolls, it's going to be real difficult for us to know what we
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pitch that out. A couple other items that -- that I think
need to get out on the table that there appears to be some
confusion on, and I think that the Court needs to -- to
formulate some policy on. There`s a question in my mind,
based on what I've seen, whether or not department heads
are -- are subject to the -- the longevity and educational
policy of the Court. The reason I pitch that out is that in
some cases, the -- the department heads are -- are hired on at
a specific salary that does not fit within the step and grade
schedule. It's a lump sum type salary structure, and -- and
they're treated more like an elected official. And, of
course, those -- those compensation packages are handled on a
case-by-case basis each budget year. I think we need to have
a policy as to whether or not elected -- department heads are,
in fact, subject to the longevity. I've seen some instances
where they were and I've seen some instances where they
weren't. The -- the -- another issue is --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I comment on that real
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can tell you right quick
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~~ where I stand on the thing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think department heads are
no different from anybody else. If they've worked here for a
number of years, they should be compensated for it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And particularly in the
education field. If they get some kind of certification out
there that makes them a better employee to serve the
taxpayers, they should be compensated for it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me offer a comment,
Judge, too. Last year about this time, I indicated to the
Court that I -- I would begin the process of having us come up
with a policy for longevity for elected officials. That
should include department heads as well. I've asked Ms. Hyde
to work on that, and she has done so, and at the appropriate
time we're going to -- she and I probably are going to
introduce that to the Court, which would -- which will take
care of elected officials, and we can include department heads
and cover the whole thing at the same time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think he's saying this is
the appropriate time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm, yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then we'll do it today if
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JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I just wanted to get it out on
the table so it's something we can be thinking about, because
it's something that I've seen in the past that doesn't seem to
have any clear policy direction on it, and I --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: In order to avoid this confusion on
an ongoing basis, I'd like to get it nailed down so that
everybody knows from top to bottom what the policy is, just
like we're doing on the regular employee -- the plug-in of the
step and grade. And I think confusion has, frankly, resulted
because a lot of our department heads are not, per se, plugged
into the step and grade; for example, Human Resources. That's
a flat rate, a flat amount of compensation, and it doesn't fit
within the step and grade. There are others that fit within
that category, so -- and it -- so it appears that -- that they
are treated more like elected officials rather than regular
employees on the step and grade. And --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, let me ask you this,
now. You -- you're referring to department heads, and Bill's
including elected officials in his conversation.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To me, those are -- should be
separated, department heads being I.T., Leonard Odom,
Maintenance, those kind of folks. I don't know that -- I
don't know that you ought to give Bruce a raise because he
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that, no.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you said elected
officials.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only in terms of longevity.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only in terms of longevity
or length of service, as Ms. Hyde prefers it being called.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I get back pay from all
my years I've been here?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can certainly put it to
these other gentlemen and see what they say. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a little different take
than Commissioner Baldwin on the -- with the department heads.
We look at their salaries not on an irregular basis, and make
adjustments, and have done that with most of them. I know we
did with I.T. last year; we did it with Len Odom on several
occasions since I've been a Commissioner. And while I don't
know if we've actually looked at longevity, I think that's
kind of in -- has been in the whole process. We're -- you
know, I think we've made adjustments, but what I guess you'd
call almost merit-type adjustments for those people that the
regular employees generally don't get. I mean, they get some
merit adjustments occasionally, but we've made some pretty
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healthy adjustments in some of our department heads over the
last 11, 12 years. And -- you know, and I don't -- you know,
say someone like Len Odom; I don't know how many years Len's
been here, probably approaching 20.
JUDGE TINLEY: 17, I think.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 16.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 17. You know --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 16, going on 17.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, we've -- I know that's
one salary that we've looked at and adjusted quite a bit while
I've been here, because we've added more responsibilities to
that job. You know, I don't know -- just because, you know,
that we decide that he's been here 17 years, he should get
another pretty hefty increase. I mean, he's already -- you
know, I think -- I'm real cautious about going into a policy
that -- you know, about longevity, because we do make
adjustments quite frequently.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, maybe -- maybe in
furtherance of what you're saying, we need to separate out
length of service, any consideration for that, for elected
officials, as distinguished from anybody else, because it is a
separate category.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, elected officials are a
little bit different, 'cause they tend to very seldom get any
25 I kind of an increase.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think that there was
policy actually adopted before I was a Commissioner equalizing
a lot of them, and I don't -- you know, maybe that made sense
when it was done, but I don't think it makes sense right now.
I wish we could undo that. And, you know, I know that's very
hard to do. I think that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can do it through length
of service.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think I want to get
involved in undoing that one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with Bruce.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can do it through length
of service awards.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that does award some
of the elected officials -- like Linda's here. You know,
she's been here for eons.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A hundred years.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: A hundred years?
MS. UECKER: 39 years.
JUDGE TINLEY: We don't need to do anything there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, I mean, her experience, I
think, should be worth more than, you know, a new person in
that position. I think that, you know, she brings a lot to
the table. I think that goes with other elected officials
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A good example is Linda
versus Kathy Mitchell right behind her. She's been a J.P. for
less than a term.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. So, you know --
JUDGE TINLEY: My point is, it's out on the table
now, so it's something we need to -- that we need to face and
we need to come to some clear consensus about. Let me throw
I
~ out another little variation on this. You've got an employee,
for example, who's been in county service, but not technically
a county employee, who changes positions and is now a county
employee, and by virtue of the prior service, has not been
under any longevity type of -- type of program. Do we start
that employee on a -- on a longevity program when it moves
over into purely county service?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will you be more specific?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You've got an employee who was
a, quote, district employee who was paid through the state.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Who moved over and is now a county
employee. The longevity did not apply, even though work was
being performed for Kerr County. Technically, a state
employee, for example, and do we start the meter running on a
longevity with a one-year and then every three years
thereafter?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's kind of my thinking, but I
wanted to throw that one out. The other -- the other thing
that I want to get on the table is, when we plug in these
longevities and we have a COLA, for example, do you plug in
the COLA and then put longevity on top, or do you add the
longevity, plug in the COLA on the combined total of the two?:
I've seen that flowing both ways.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Goes both ways. It's just a
matter of what your preference is, 'cause it has -- in
industry, it's done either way.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which is --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In fairness to the employee,
that becomes the longevity piece, just like the step and
grade. The step and grade is longevity, and it becomes part
of the base salary, so anything that's applied on top goes on
top of their own salary.
JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, from a mathematical
calculation, that that issue may have -- may have resulted in
our step and grade schedules getting screwed up when they did
it before.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right.
JUDGE TINLEY: If we plug in the COLA first -- I
realize there's a slight penalty to the employee. Plug in the
25 ~ COLA first and then create new step and grade schedules based
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upon that, then to make the additional step for the longevity
or educational increase, keeps those more in line. I don't
know. I'm --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reality, Judge, is that
a COLA increase is applied to step and grade schedules top to
bottom, period.
JUDGE TINLEY: Should be.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And anybody that falls --
and wherever they fall has benefitted from the step and grade
advancement plus the COLA, because that has advanced as well.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you do like the Judge
said; you do the COLA first, and then you do the longevity
afterwards. Because if you don't, you don't get the longevity
until you reach that date, and someone who -- I mean --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we're saying the same
thing. We're saying the same thing.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's out there on the table.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that there are some
elected officials that are -- that are underpaid, but, you
know, whether -- it doesn't matter whether we like those
people or whether we don't like them; they're in real
responsible positions, and they have a lot of -- a lot of
responsibility to do their jobs. And I think those -- the
three that I will mention that I think are -- are somewhat
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County Treasurer -- not the County Treasurer, the Tax
Assessor/Collector. Those are the three biggest jobs I know
of in this courthouse. And I've looked at the comparison to
other counties, and, you know, we're -- they're not terribly
underpaid, but I also know that we are a little different than
some of those other counties. We have, you know, basically
two district courts that have offices here, and seems that we
have a lot more transactions with real estate and -- and
deaths and civil cases and criminal cases that maybe other
counties our size don't have quite the numbers that we have.
And I think that their caseloads and the things that they are
doing now are much greater than they were a few years ago, and
their compensation really hasn't gone up that much.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And our people's pay is less
than some of those counties that do less work.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I think. And I
think those three -- those three positions -- those three
elected officials need to be raised up to get more uniform.
And we have department heads that are making more than they
are, and in my opinion, some of those department heads don't
have near the responsibility that are put on those three --
three elected jobs.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, going back to
separating them out and trying to look at the District Clerk
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and her workload and say, "She does all of these things; we
need to pay her a different pay scale," well, the Treasurer
can come along and say, "Yeah, but I'm your investment
officer. I do this and this and this and this and this. How
about me?"
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, and that's the
reason that everything was grouped -- everybody was kind of
', grouped together and put on the same level, 'cause you -- you
get into a pretty ugly scene every once in a while.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We face it with the Sheriff°
every year. He tells us how underpaid he is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We face all kind of stuff
with the Sheriff. Is he back, by the way?
JUDGE TINLEY: His springboard is off of his chief
deputy, if you'll recall.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's how he propels himself
I forward.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the Chief of Police of
the city of Kerrville.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just think that, you
know, we -- you know, as time goes on, we grow, the job grows,
and we -- the people that are doing those jobs need to be
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compensated for it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's really a
valid point. Their workload has increased because the county
is growing and the demand on courthouse and all the
departments has increased.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It has. And I think that --
you know, from what I've seen in the past years, you know,
when I was here before and the years since, you know, I -- the
many years while I was gone, it seems like that most of the
increases have been -- been aimed at, you know, one or two
departments, and others have kind of been -- not ignored, but
they've kind of gotten behind on what I feel like is fair
compensation. And I would like for us to really look hard at
that this year and try to be fair. I mean, I don't -- I'm not
saying let's don't be fair and, you know, cut everybody out
and just give to these three, but I'm saying that I feel like
there's -- there's three that are somewhat underpaid.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those three elected officials.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those three elected officials.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, Ms. Hyde is on vacation
today, but she is crunching some numbers and looking at some
-- some information from -- from the Texas Association of
Counties salary survey, and has -- has extrapolated some
numbers from those surveys, and she has -- she is working on
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those numbers to determine what she, as a Human Resources
specialist, thinks is appropriate, and I'm sure at some point
in time she's going to be making those recommendations to the
Court. That's my sense of it. But I do know she's working on
that, so that's something we'll be looking at down the road.
But, here again, until we know what the tax rolls are, we're
kind of shooting in the dark.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly.
JUDGE TINLEY:	And,	you know,	we can	-- we can kind
of do the smaller portion	of	it now, but	those	major
decisions, I think we're going to probably have to wait until
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. I just wanted to
throw it out on the table while we're doing this so you know
kind of where I'm coming from.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think it all needs to be on the
table, and it's something that we're going to have to reach
some consensus and decision on later.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's -- let's go ahead and go
forward with our review and discussion of the '07-'08 budget
and fiscal capital expenditure and personnel matters, which
are related to those budgets for virtually any department, the
way we have the agenda item listed. But before we get into
25 ~ that, Mr. Looney, our insurance consultant is with us here
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today, and we changed the meeting on him when he was scheduled
to be here previously, and he had a commitment and couldn't be
with us when the meeting date was changed. So, I wanted to ~
see what he had to offer today, and see if there's anything
more enlightening about the insurance game that he wants to
lay on us.
MR. LOONEY: Oh, goodness.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, goodness.
JUDGE TINLEY: Here it comes.
MR. LOONEY: I'm glad this is a workshop. These are
in red folders for a reason.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sort of like a red flag?
MR. LOONEY: This is a -- you know, a red light.
Don't take these things -- just stop right here. This is not
a green light; this is not what we're doing. This is where
we're looking. There is where we are. So, I wanted to bring
you up to date, and since it's a workshop, if it's all right,
I'm going to take my jacket off.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want that podium? Be a
little more comfortable.
MR. LOONEY: No, that's all right. I'll just --
just sit here, if it's okay. I want to go through these
reports with you real quick, and then bring you up to date on
where we are and what we're doing so that everybody's up to
date on what's going on. The first thing in your folder there
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should be a chart like this. It's got the red lines on it.
Let me explain what this is. This is your paid medical claim
history since January of '05. The way we do this chart is
that we take a -- a three-month lag in your participation and
your claims, and the assumption is that it takes about 60 to
90 days to get a claim to go through the system, and those
claims, when they go through the system, are appropriated back
to your population that existed 60 to 90 days prior to that.
So, we lag claims in relationship to your participation, which
gives us a more accurate representation of your actual flow on
claims, as related to the actual participation in the plan
itself. So, this is not just a monthly claim payment. What
it is, is an estimate of where your claims are headed and
where -- what they've done in the past. As you can see, we --
we're pretty high in December, in '05, and then we started
reducing our claims. We started our HRA program back at that
time. Medical claims started reducing, and have been pretty
consistently on a down-flow from that time forward. These
claims -- this claim projection does not include the payments;
that are made through the HRA program. This is strictly the
medical claims that are paid by the insurance company.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this the average of per
person, amount of claims per person, like 500-some-odd?
MR. LOONEY: Correct. That's -- what that takes is
25 ~ your entire population, takes the entire claim payment that
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was made; simple division at that point as to the dollars that
are spent per individual per month for claims during that time
frame, and then gives us a projection line as to where we are
as far as claims payments are concerned. Little concerned
that we have a little bit of an increase here in these last
three or four months; we've gone up a little bit. The other
thing that is not indicated in here is the really very large
claim that we have, where we do have insurance. So, this is
all claims. So, we do have one or two very large claims that
are still indicated in here that we do get a credit back from,
but we take that into consideration when we're doing
additional projections on rates. But this is just -- what
this -- what we want to see is where we are as far as our --
our claim flow in relationship to what we hear in the industry
is, you know, that trend that we always talk about. We want
to know what our trend is. So, this kind of gives us an
indication of what our trend is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, let me ask a question
right quick. In December of '05, when the line started down,
~ do you attribute that to the HRA program?
MR. LOONEY: Very much so. Very much so.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how would the HRA program
contribute to the down side of it?
MR. LOONEY: The -- what happens is, we -- we
changed and we gave credits and we increased the deductibles
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and we gave credits under the HRA program for people to use
toward their expenses during that time frame. So, two things
happened. One is, the actual experience of those initial
''~, claims was taken out of this, and reflects over into the HRA
program. And we got more of a lag time for people using the
HRA and understanding the HRA before they actually got back
into that claim process. So, it didn't necessarily mean that
our claims dropped, but it did put a differential between
where the claims were paid and how they were paid. And that,
fortunately, became consistent over that period of time, so
that we're getting -- a lot of the dollars that were initially
being spent initially on the medical plan now are coming out
of the HRA, and we're seeing more people accumulate that HRA
accumulation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. So, it's actually
working the way we thought it should work?
MR. LOONEY: It is working. It's working very well.
And I've got another couple of reports that I'm not sure that
-- I assume that a workshop is an official meeting for the
County, and that because of the fact that there are individual
names on these forms -- and I can't give those to you in
public, because then it would be public information, and under
HIPAA, we can't disclose that information. But I've got the
reports that show each individual, what their account is, and
who's been spending their account, how it's being spent. And
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I will comment on that in just a minute, too. The next page
is where we are for this year, based on claims that have been
paid. And this is a distribution of how the medical plan
works. This is a -- tells you what the total bill charges
circumstances, such as people who filed a claim that was not
I~, covered under the plan, or they filed a claim where they were
not covered under the plan. There were edits and there were
coordination of benefit payments made, things of that sort
that were deducted from that. Then we took our credits for
our P.P.O. reductions, and we started with about a million,
one in total bill charges. And after everything was said and
done, we paid $531,000 out in actual medical claims from
January of this year to the end of June. So, that gives you
an indication of how the flow works through a bill claim down
to the actual payment on it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that pretty normal in these
numbers -- in industry?
MR. LOONEY: As a matter of fact, I'll show you
another report here in a minute that kind of gives you a
'~ relationship to normality, where it is. But one of the things
that we look at is down at the bottom, where it says Plan
Ratios, where it says Plan Payments to Allowed Benefits. So,
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right now we're sharing at about 75/25 percent with the
population, so the plan is paying 75 percent of the total
costs of the paid claims, and then the individuals that are
covered are paying approximately 25 percent of it. And that
ratio is an indication of how our medical plan is working, and
then when we couple that with the HRA, that 25 percent number
goes up, because those -- that HRA is paying for things such
as deductibles, co-pays and co-insurance, which are listed in
the employee share. They're paying for those -- those areas.
So, when everything is said and done, the employee in some
cases is not responsible for any expenses out-of-pocket,
depending on the length of time that they've been with the
county and the accumulation under the HRA. So, the
combination of the two plans is working very well. The thing
that I'm concerned about in reading this report right here is
the fact that we've got $179,000 in prescription drug charges.
That's about 34 percent of our total claim charges, which is
exceptionally high. That's about twice what we normally see
in the industry. We normally see 14, 15, 16 percent of the
total medical bills in addition to the prescription drug, and
it's typically in that 14, 15, 16 percent range.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What was that number, Gary?
MR. LOONEY: It's about 33 percent of the total paid
claims, 179, 960.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
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MR. LOONEY: The next page kind of gives you an
indication of -- of where it is and how it's being spent.
Branded medications, generic medications, formulary,
nonformulary. So -- and as you can see, the majority of the
expenses are branded medications through a retail formulary
cost up?
MR. LOONEY: That's where our -- that's where the
majority of our expense is, is in that branded medication
through retail service operation. $108,000 of the $179,000 is
going through that area. The next page shows you actually by
volume as far as the number of prescriptions. These are the
top 25 medications, just the top 25, and as you can see, the
majority of them are branded medications. The -- the Nexium,
this is -- this is -- I guess all the drug companies in the
United States and all of the advertising and everything else
shows that it is working well. I mean, Nexium is -- and a lot
of the reports that we see, Nexium is one or two as far as the
number one medication being purchased by individuals in the
retail branded market right now. It is way up there. What's
interesting is that -- that in the prescription drug world, if
you go to a pharmacist, and the pharmacist has a sign above
his window and it says, "We substitute generics," you know,
25 ~ just -- if you go to an H.E.B. pharmacy and they've got a sign
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there that says, you know, if there's a generic substitute
available, we will substitute. The problem is, in the
prescription drug industry right now, there is no generic for
Nexium. To be a generic, it has to be an exact chemical
equivalent, and Nexium does not have an exact chemical
equivalent in the industry. It does have a therapeutic
equivalent, which is Prilosec. Prilosec is about 15 percent
of the cost of Nexium, but it is not an exact generic
equivalent. It is, however, a therapeutic equivalent. So,
you know, if the person's got a prescription for Nexium, the
pharmacist is not allowed to substitute --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's Nexium do? What's it
MR. LOONEY: Sir?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is Nexium?
MR. LOONEY: Esophageal reflux.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Prilosec is
I over-the-counter.
MR. LOONEY: Prilosec is over-the-counter.
Actually, under certain accounts, in certain circumstances,
Prilosec can be purchased through a retail pharmacy with
proper drug cards. It's covered under flexible spendable
accounts. We're taking a very hard look at that. And, you
know, there's a number of people, if you try to take their
little purple pill away from them, they will not be very
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happy, and so we need to decide how best to handle those types
of relationships. Prevacid, Singulair, Lipitor, Zyrtec, all
of these are -- are very non -- they have no generic
equivalent. Now, some of these are coming off the -- the list
of -- of branded where there will be generics, but they --
it's just on a timing basis. And typically what happens,
Nexium then will change and they'll add Nexium D, and they'll
be a nongeneric again. So, it's a game that the prescription
benefit management and the prescription industry is playing
with us right now, and we're trying to find ways to resolve
some of those problems, and actually are looking for -- in our
-- in our bid process that we're going through, that we'll be
actually submitting to the public in about two weeks for this
next year, we will have a specific portion of that RFP that
has to deal with the prescription benefit management company,
trying to get transparency into the process.
The -- the industry -- the P.P.M. industry, Nexium
or the other companies will say, "Well, we're going to give
you a rebate, you know, for the volume of medications that
your employees purchase with Nexium. We're going to give you
a rebate based on volume." So, what we look at is, it's -- I
don't know; it's kind of like going to Office Depot, and
they've got a Hewlett-Packard computer there, and it says,
okay, if you take this tab, then we'll give you back $50. And
it's going to cost you "X" to buy it, but we'll give you back
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$50. Well, the price of the machine -- why is it not
discounted by $50 to begin with? You know, what's this rebate
process? So, that's what's happening a lot of times in these
medications, is that, well, we're going to give you back
money. What we've found is that Nexium, with a rebate, costs
about -- I'm thinking that it's about $4 a pill after the
rebate, where Prilosec, with no rebate, which is a generic
therapeutic equivalent, costs about 17 cents a pill. So, you
know, we've got -- we've got some real discrepancies in price
there.
The next one is just the same 25 top medications,
but it's based on the actual cost of the medication itself,
and this, again, is just during the last six months. Imitrex
is a medication that's used for migraine headaches, and it
appears that we've got probably just one person in the county
that's got a lot of migraine headaches. I'm not sure who that
is. But, anyway, the reason I show you that is the fact that
we've got, again, 30-some percent of our total costs is in the
prescription benefit area, and -- and this is probably the one
area that may be the negative of our HRA programs,
Commissioner. Because, essentially, we have individuals in
the county that have a debit card. They've got their debit
card through their HRA, and when they go to purchase a
medication, then they can purchase it using their debit card
through their HRA, so there really is no out-of-pocket cost
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from a co-payment standpoint for an individual to purchase
their medications. And we're seeing that as a result of the
-- of the claim flows that I look at, there are a lot of
payments made to individuals for $10, which is our co-pay on
our prescription medication. So, in some ways, it's doing
exactly what it's supposed to do; it's working. It's making
it easier for the employee as far as costs and out-of-pocket
expenses are concerned. At the same time, we've got
potentially an overutilization of that particular piece of the
plan, so we're looking at that.
The next page is -- is a report that kind of gives
you an indication of the -- the large claims that we have and
who those large claims are applied to. As you can see, the
majority of these are employees. All we did was ask for those
claims that exceeded $15,000 for the previous six months, and
we have one individual that's in about the $90,000 range,
which means that we will -- we're getting reimbursements for
them based on our stop loss contract. So, anything over
$50,000, we get reimbursed for. But this is just information
that shows that this year, we've got one person through six
months that's gone over that. We have another person that we
~ expect to go over that, but right now, just two people in
excess. And we're -- we're having them under the managed care
function of the plan so that they are being monitored on a
regular basis.
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JUDGE TINLEY: The others that are still within
the -- in the stop loss range that we're responsible for, are
those -- any of those rolling off? Have they capped? Or do
MR. LOONEY: As far as the maximum under their major
I medical? Or --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, no. Insofar as it appears that
they're going to continue to grow, whether or not they're ,
going to roll off.
MR. LOONEY: No, we have -- we have two that we
expect to continue to increase in their costs because of the
diagnostic process. And once we've reached that 50,000, then
they're the responsibility of the insurance company. The
difficulty with that side of it -- well, the one thing is
that, you know, it's positive that we've got that coverage,
but we're going out for a bid process and we have to present
that information to anybody who wishes to bid on it. So, we
have to provide that information so that we don't have any gap
in coverage for those individuals. So, we've got to present
that to the general public when we go for our bid
requirements. Which, again, we'll be going out within about
two weeks on their bids.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't seem to me that -- I
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a -- $90,000 is not just a huge amount for -- it seems, from
what we've experienced in the past.
MR. LOONEY: And part of it is the time frame. This
is for six months. This is only a six-month indication, so
some of the time -- sometimes when we were looking at the
information, it was later in the year and it had a greater
time for accumulation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you anticipate the top two
or the top three to keep on increasing?
MR. LOONEY: Top one and the third one on the list.
The second one is pretty much through the process at this
point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, I see that out of these
eight here, seven of them are the subscribers.
MR. LOONEY: Employee.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The employee themselves, and
their dependents, there's one. Is that a normal number
comparison?
MR. LOONEY: No, that's -- that's a little unusual.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it?
MR. LOONEY: We typically will see more than one
dependent unit. But, at the same time, that's good. It's a
good -- that's a good circumstance.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But over a 12-month period,
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that -- the dependent number could increase.
MR. LOONEY: It could.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. LOONEY: It's possible. I -- at this time,
unfortunately, when we're dealing with 250 employee totals,
it's really hard to get a better handle on projection. If we
were dealing with 1,000 employees or 2,000 employees, we'd
have a little more data consistency. With 250, one person can
really skew the -- can skew the numbers.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. LOONEY: So one subscriber of the 200 -- out of
the number of dependents that we have insured is probably
fairly accurate, because we don't have a large dependent
participation. We have -- you know, we've got a little lower
than average dependent participation. You know, you're
asking, Commissioner, about the -- you know, how we stand in
.relationship with some of the other payment. The last page is
kind of -- what we did is we take the claims that range from
certain sizes; up to $99, $100 to $500, $500 to $1,000, $1,000
and so forth. We take a look at your population and the
claims that are paid in relationship to those volumes, and
then we take a look at -- and Mutual of Omaha gives us
information about how those same payments and percentages
reflect to their total block of business, and what the cost
relationships are for that total block of business. So, 5,000
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to 10,000, we've had 17 claimants, 24 percent of the total
payments. But because of our size, again, it's, you know, the
indication. So, we've paid on our -- on our 5,000 to 10,000,
we've paid higher than the average that Mutual of Omaha sees
over their entire block of business. That's just an
indication of the relationship between the two.
One of the things that -- that we're trying to do
for you all for budget purposes -- and, again, this is --
we're six months out from an anniversary date. I think, as
y'all know, the -- Mutual of Omaha sold their block of
business to a firm called Coventry. Coventry, at their
discretion, did not include Texas in their purchase, so the
Mutual of Omaha -- that is, an organization that's doing the
business on medical plans in the state of Texas is going out
of business. They have sent us termination notices, and will
not renew effective January. There are two divisions of
Mutual of Omaha. One is their claims operation and
administrative service organization, and then another division
of Mutual of Omaha is their insuring division, which insures
the stop loss insurance. That division is active and fully
active in the industry, and will continue to be active. So,
the stop loss coverage, the underlying aggregate and
underlying specific insurance coverages may well be renewed by
Mutual of Omaha, and we may -- most likely will get a renewal
from them. The administrative service portion of it, the
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claim paying portion of it will not be renewed. So, we're
going out early at this point in time to identify another
third-party administrator to administer the plan.
In that process, we have also talked to Ms. Hyde to
some extent about the time frames and the amount of energy, I
guess, that their organization and their individuals are
spending in dealing with insurance concepts and premiums
and -- and enrollments and -- and all the administrative
web-based enrollment process that will include all forms of
insurance, including the medical insurance, the basic life
insurance, and all the voluntary plans that are out there.
Staff is spending a lot of time in -- not evaluation, but
verification, I guess, of payroll in relationship to premium
I payments and in relationship to all the voluntary plans that
are -- that are being offered. And it's all paper at this
point. Everything's being done on a paper basis, and there's
a -- a lot of hours being spent on evaluation of premium
statements in relationship to payroll deductions to make sure
that everything is accurate in relationship to premium
payments to the voluntary insurance plans out there. So,
she'd asked to us review that process to determine whether or~
not we could use a single source to use a web-based type of
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enrollment, an Internet-based type of enrollment to go to a
paperless enrollment process. So, we're in the process of
researching and working on that currently.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like a lot of
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, just seems that way
to me. I don't know if it is or not. You're going to have to
educate me, I can tell you that.
MR. LOONEY: There's an on button and an off button.
I We have to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes and no?
MR. LOONEY: We have to plug it in. Do you have any
children or grandchildren?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No comment.
JUDGE TINLEY: They can teach you, is what he's
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
MR. LOONEY: Yeah. I mean, they can help. Part o f
the -- part of the process would be having an educational
resource center in Human Resources where an individual would '
be able to go to that location and be able to learn how to use
that operation initially.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We were talking about that
25 ~ during the --
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MR. LOONEY: Yeah, it's typically a two- to
three-year process, where the first year, we go through the
process and an individual sits down and discusses with an
employee their entire insurance program. They go through the.
process of -- of on-screen, online, going through the
enrollment process, so that every employee is counseled on
where they are, what their benefits are, what their expenses
are, and the whole process. And then they've got a list of
options that they can participate in or not participate in.
Once that interview is completed, then you push a button; they
get a printout. You've got about a 30-day period in which the
individual can or cannot change or make changes in their
election. Then at the end of that 30-day period, the switch
is thrown, and everything then is done. The -- the process is
one in which we want to simplify the underwriting process as
much as possible, so that once you go through that selection,
if you want to participate in a particular insurance program,
there's not a lot of follow-up. Evidence of insurability
forms, there's not a lot of -- of other required
communications. It's guaranteed issue-type information, so
that once you hit the button, you're covered, and then the
system itself monitors, generates, does all of the COBRA
administration, does all the HIPAA administration. It does
all of the premium distributions and comparisons to payroll,
and the hours that are required are reduced significantly
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based on the administrative policies.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, are you talking about a
reality? Or are you talking about a dream that we're having,
of having this computer program and a training --
MR. LOONEY: We went -- last year, year and a half
ago, we went to a major school district in San Antonio and
made the same representation to them. They've got 2,800
employees, and as of today they're totally paperless. It
took -- it took about -- it took four weeks. Every employee
in the school district was interviewed, and established the
the Internet system baseline was established, then everything
else is electronically based on changes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did the school district
develop the program, the computer program? Or --
MR. LOONEY: No, we did.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You did?
(Mr. Looney nodded.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we go that route, you
I will --
MR. LOONEY: We did it through a third-party. We
I did it --
I JUDGE TINLEY: It'll be provided to the County?
MR. LOONEY: It'll be provided to the County. And
there's two different pieces to that. There's -- there's
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always organizations out there that want to sell insurance
product to your employees; there's no question about it.
Y'all are a big employer in the area. Every insurance agent
wants to come in and participate and sell insurance products
to your employees. As a result of that, a number of those
companies will say, "Well, we will provide you with the
internet portion of it. As long as you put our product into
the -- into the plan, then you can -- then we'll provide that
for you." The problem that we see with that is that that
link, that hook, is hard to pull out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
MR. LOONEY: Once the hook is in. So what we have
done is -- is we've negotiated with and worked with other
internet providers so that all the data, everything is
contracted directly with the employer, and you as the
employer. So, you own the data; you manage the data, so if
there's an insurance company or agent or whatever out there
that you don't want to participate with any more, then it's
simply -- you throw the switch, and they don't participate any
more, or you replace them. One of the keys to making all this
work properly is to make sure that the insuring companies that
you deal with all will participate in what we call a
guaranteed issue basis, so that when an employee goes online,
they see a product that they want to participate in, once they
25 ( assume that that product is something they want to participate
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in and elect it, that electronic signature is sufficient to
make application to the company, have the payroll deductions
done, and have the products placed in force. So that the
paperwork is -- the paperwork function is eliminated. We've
I taken a look and asked -- asked Eva -- did Eva -- is she here?
~I JUDGE TINLEY: She's on vacation.
MR. LOONEY: Okay. I asked Eva to kind of take a
hard look at the hours that they're spending in their
organization trying to either get the payroll function
correct, make sure that the payroll system is making a proper
deduction, make sure the insurance premium is being paid
~I
II properly, make sure the COBRA notifications are done properly,
et cetera, et cetera. It costs -- on a clean application for
a single insurance contract, it costs anywhere from $22 to $25
to process an application, if that application is clean, has
no other problems associated with it. If you have any
additional information, then you've got to add the additional
hours necessary to complete that. So, what we're looking at
is measuring the hours being spent on that side of it versus
the cost of the -- of the internet function. And right now,
it's estimated that the total internet price from various
'' vendors is going to be anywhere from $7,500 a year to $9,000 a
'~ year. Which is --
JUDGE TINLEY: The administrative -- the otherwise
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reduced by more than that amount?
MR. LOONEY: That's what the estimate -- I haven't
gotten a final estimation from Eva yet, but -- but based on
the number of hours being spent currently, it appears that
we're spending more than that in man hours to -- to resolve
the same circumstance.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Common sense says it would,
~ anyway.
MR. LOONEY: Well, the other piece of it is -- is we
eliminate some significant potential liabilities that you may
have from the county side of it for applications that are
either misplaced, applications that, somehow or another,
payroll function didn't -- didn't -- where you might have an
individual that's applied for a certain policy that somehow or
another did not get through the system. And --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gary, those things don't
happen around here. (Laughter.)
(Discussion off the record.)
MR. LOONEY: So we don't -- we don't want to get
into -- we want to try to eliminate as much of that liability
as possible.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. .
JUDGE TINLEY: Speaking of the liability,
Mr. Looney, what responsibility does this Court have with
regard to offering or placing before our employees insurance
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products which are fair value for what -- for the coverage
they're getting?
MR. LOONEY: If a -- if an insurance plan is just
arbitrary -- arbitrarily selected without any due diligence or
comparison from the industry, where there's no evidence that
there's been due diligence done on that process, then you
potentially face a liability, and that comes from -- from me,
that comes from a court case out of California where a
municipality -- one member of the committee -- commission
simply brought in somebody and said, okay, you write this
business, and it turned out to be a company that was not
licensed to do business in the state, was not an actual
insurance company. One of those issues. And subsequently
ended up that the organization was responsible for all claims
incurred under that contract as a result of their selection
without doing, quote, due diligence. Due diligence in the
state of Texas does not necessarily mean that you have to go
through an RFP process. Voluntary insurance programs where
the County has no expense involved do not necessarily have to~
go through a bid process. They may or they may not, depending
on the selection of the Court.
JUDGE TINLEY: You mentioned that you were going to
be going out for RFP's here within the next couple of weeks.
~ Are you going to split two different RFP's, one for the
~ administrative aspect and then a later one for the stop loss?
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MR. LOONEY: No, those two will be the same. Those
service, and it will include information concerning the
prescription benefit management company; it'll include
information concerning the administrative service, claim
administration function. It will include health
reimbursement, the HRA administration piece of it. It will
include the flexible spendable account administration. It'll
include all of the stop loss coverages. That will be one
comprehensive plan. Hoping to get one provider that will be
able to do all of the FSA/HRA claim administration, all those
under -- under one envelope, so that we don't have to have
intercommunication going from multiple providers on how to
handle the FSA/HRA information.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what about the
other -- the other --
MR. LOONEY: The voluntary piece? We have not --
you know, we're intending to do the due diligence with current
providers and other providers in an effort to determine
whether or not they will meet the concept of the guaranteed
issue under the internet enrollment functionality. We've got
a list of all of the current, you know, benefit circumstances
and current benefit providers. As long as they will
participate in that process. Plus the internet enrollment
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function, we are also going to do an RFP for Internet
enrollment function, and that will be a separate RFP. And
that will be done and completed, again, within about the next
-- we're hopeful to get them out within the next 10 days.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good.
MR. LOONEY: We've got -- we're in the process of
doing a lot of -- a lot of analysis right now. With Mutual of
Omaha pulling out of the -- out of the business, it's a time
frame for us to reevaluate and move forward. And right now,
based on our claims history, I would -- I think I gave the
Judge a projection on what our percentage cost increase might
be overall as far as -- I believe I gave it to you.
JUDGE TINLEY: You gave it to Ms. Hyde, and she's
got it plugged in for our purposes of budgeting to this point.
It's plugged in, or should be plugged in.
MR. LOONEY: I think it is, yeah. So -- and the
number that I had given to her, which -- I've drawn a blank
right now, sorry. But I checked it yesterday, based on
current claim information, and it still seems to be accurate
in relationship to what I'd given to her.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 15 percent?
MR. LOONEY: Not quite that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Eight percent is what I've
been hearing.
MR. LOONEY: Eight percent.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What was it last year?
MR. LOONEY: Three and a half.
JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty low.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About four, five, something
around there, right?
MR. LOONEY: Three and a half or four last year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here on this last sheet, is
there anything -- you've got a column that says Percentage of
Unique Claimants. Is that a separate type category, or is
that just your way of -- what does that mean?
MR. LOONEY: Unique what?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Last page.
MR. LOONEY: Those are the -- that is actually one
I claimant.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Percentage of unique
I claimants?
MR. LOONEY: This is -- this is one individual in
those categories, where we only have one claimant in that
particular category based on that diagnosis.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. Okay, thank you.
MR. LOONEY: And we pulled some of them out because
of the relation -- the percentage relationships. We have --
we have two or three individuals that -- well, let's see. We
have one individual that's receiving claim payments. The
high-cost individual's got a very unique diagnosis. So, I
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wanted to bring you up to date.
JUDGE TINLEY: Apprec
appreciate you being with us today, giving us the benefit of
that.
I underwater.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I apologize for the need to
reschedule that first meeting that you'd already committed to
come to, and when we changed it, why, it's understandable you
had other commitments, and appreciate you coming on up today.
MR. LOONEY: No problem. If you have any questions
at all, please don't hesitate to call us. And it is -- it's a
pleasure working with Ms. Hyde. She's -- she is a taskmaster.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You could say that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Gary.
MR. LOONEY: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we start down the
list now. I don't see Kathy from County Court at Law. I knew
they had some -- they had some things going on there this
morning. We'll go to Adult Probation, which is under Tab 19.
Ms. Davis was -- is here. That's a fairly simple -- we don't
have that many items. I have discussed some of the things
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that I've done with her, --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 19?
JUDGE TINLEY: -- that I've recommended here.
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: 19. It's toward the back on 19.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, it's in the box?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where it was.
JUDGE TINLEY: The rent, of course, we've just
concluded a new lease. That starts with the new rental rate
this October. That's the reason for the increase there.
There were some other adjustments that I made to the request
based upon what had -- what had been expended, and what the
projected year end was. Are there any concerns, questions you
have about any of those adjustments, Ms. Davis?
MS. DAVIS: No, I just wanted to let you know we did
get the numbers on the new phone system upgrade that I had
talked to you about.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. DAVIS: And it'll be $1,471 to get the new
phones in. We have two that are broken. We need two new
phones installed in offices that we don't have phones, and
then we were going to upgrade and have voicemail.
JUDGE TINLEY: Voicemail.
MS. DAVIS: And so that's that the cost of that.
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JUDGE TINLEY: So, the 1,500 that we plugged in for
this should cover it, then.
MS. DAVIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Good guess.
MS. DAVIS: You're good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else?
MS. DAMS: That ought to do it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you so much. We
appreciate you -- just a moment. You had some questions?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I wanted to ask her
about the new employee coming on board. When does that
happen?
MS. DAMS: September 1.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: September 1. And who is
that?
MS. DAMS: Clete Buckaloo.
JUDGE TINLEY: Can you imagine that? That's
mind-blowing to me.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No more Ranger in there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No more Ranger.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty interesting.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions for Ms. Davis?
Anything else you got for us?
MS. DAMS: No.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
MS. DAVIS: Everything's good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Apologize for --
MS. DAVIS: That's okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- you having to wait for a bit.
Next one is the District Clerk, and that is under -- I want to
say 6. Is that right? I think that's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, just a second. Be 9. .
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 9.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You've done it more than we
I have .
MS. UECKER: No kidding.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You tell us.
JUDGE TINLEY: A reminder to the Court, the
personnel issues at the top, other than those that are driven
by existing longevity or educational policy increases, are
something that the entire Court's going to have to make a
decision on. And then any capital outlay, other than the I.T.
recommendations, are -- are something that is going to be an
entire Court decision. Ms. Uecker and I have gone over her
regular budget, her records management preservation budget,
her district records management budget, the --
MS. UECKER: Law Library and jury.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- County Law Library, and jury. All
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of those are the ones that she kind of rides herd on. And
there have been some -- a few adjustments made. Are there any
MS. UECKER: No. I think they're basically just
about all the same. I just wanted to mention that telephone
will be down. The reimbursement travel we cut out altogether.
I'm not sure why, but that's okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to talk about
I that .
MS. UECKER: Okay, talk about that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
i COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to ask the question,
why is that zeroed out? Remind me of what we've done. And
I'm assuming that reimbursed travel is in-town travel?
MS. UECKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Going to the bank and
whatever -- wherever you go.
MS. UECKER: Well, and that was brought up earlier
by our H.R. person, too, is, you know, why are we not
reimbursing staff for going to the bank? And I try not to
make them go unless I can't. You know, I use my vehicle, and
I even -- sometimes I even send them in my vehicle. Well, she
advises that's not a real good idea either. But, I'm saying
that we probably need to be reimbursing these folks for their
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mileage.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, did -- have we done
something to change that?
j COMMISSIONER LETZ: We changed it a while back. We
rolled them into the salary.
MS. UECKER: Well, that's where -- for the elected
officials?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: For elected officials. It was
rolled into salary.
MS. UECKER: But I have staff that goes out to the
jail --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MS. UECKER: -- quite a bit, two people in
particular, and they have never asked for reimbursement.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They need to be reimbursed,
though, if they travel for the County. It's my opinion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would agree. I mean,
employees, yes, 'cause it's not -- they should not have to pay
for that. I think, also --
JUDGE TINLEY: The difficulty I see is, on an
in-county basis, it seems like the administrative end of it
might be more than what the actual value of the reimbursement
is, but that's something that you're going to have to contend
with. I certainly have no objection to it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the -- does this
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liability insurance issue come into play?
MS. UECKER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not only -- yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you take the stand that
if you have an accident, you're just not going to say
anything?
MS. UECKER: Yeah. You don't say -- don't offer
where you were going.
JUDGE TINLEY: Her solution is the deception
~ approach.
MS. UECKER: Right. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have anything more on the
non -- non-owned automobile possibility of a rider on our
liability -- automobile liability insurance? Did we have an
answer on that?
MS. HARGIS: No, we don't have an answer.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I think we ought to
put something in there. I mean, I have not a clue how much.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, this past year -- this current
year, we budgeted $200. Prior to that, we didn't budget any.
Up through March, at least, nothing had been expended, and
it's projected that nothing will be expended. So, you know,
we can certainly plug in --
MS. UECKER: Well, and I hadn't, because, you know,
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accumulate. What I had done in the past when we were
reimbursing them is, you know, let it accumulate so that we
didn't, you know, cut checks for $4 or whatever. So, that's
why I hadn't done anything yet.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So you do have some tabs that
are running, is what you're telling me?
MS. UECKER: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You just submit them
basically on a monthly basis or what?
MS. UECKER: Well, so that the check's not $2.50
or -- of course, you know, it's a little bit higher.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What would you like to plug in
there, a couple hundred bucks?
MS. UECKER: Yeah, I think that'd be fine.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other item?
down. Now, the --
JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't plug in anything in computer
software. I didn't know whether you had some -- some
contracts there. That -- I believe I.T. has said that
we're -- we're on a maintenance inclusion with the new
program, and so we don't have that cost now. If we do we need
to plug that in --
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MR. TROLINGER: The maintenance is not to increase
So, basically,
continues.
MS. UECKER: Yeah. That's on 563, the next line
item, is my maintenance.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, we've got you plugged in
there, okay.
MS. UECKER: Yeah. The one thing I do want to tell
you, Judge, is that we changed -- Mr. Trolinger advised me
this morning that his -- our estimate was a little bit low on
the I.T., so instead of 7,466, it should be 7,710. But that's
really -- the computer issue is the only thing that I'm asking
for. I'm not asking for any additional staff.
JUDGE TINLEY: Change that to 7,725?
MS. UECKER: I'm sorry, what?
JUDGE TINLEY: 7,725.
MS. UECKER: Yeah, that's fine.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Capital outlay?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm. Where it was 7,466.
MS. UECKER: And even though you can see, on the
last page that I submitted, our increases in the -- not only
the case filings, but total receipts, and the passport issues
that we're going through, but we're able to deal with all of
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those, so I'm not asking for additional staff. The records
preservation I had last year was 29,000. I'm asking for
another 22,000 out of that general fund, Records Preservation,
and additional to the five that's out of the dedicated one for
the district.
JUDGE TINLEY: District records that's on the next ,
~ page?
MS. UECKER: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. UECKER: And I'm hoping that that'll take care
of the project that I'm working go. And it'll be my pleasure
to throw that last reader-printer out the second floor window.
So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be careful, don't hit
~ anybody.
MS. UECKER: Let's see. Law Library. I think
that's all pretty much the same.
JUDGE TINLEY: With the exception of the personnel
issue.
MS. UECKER: Right. ~
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay.
MS. UECKER: The jury, now, the only -- the only big
change I have there on the jury is, you know, the jury's a big
unknown. We don't know what's coming down the pike on cases.
I didn't increase that -- let's see, jury fees. As a matter
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of fact, it's down. We took it down a little bit, because wee
are now -- although the jury pay is much higher, we are
getting reimbursed from the state as long as funds are
available.
JUDGE TINLEY: Are those funds directly offset
against these? They come in separately?
MS. UECKER: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, what we need to do is budget for
the gross outflow, then. Is that correct, Tommy?
MR. TOMLINSON: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, there -- I don't know.
We'll see what we got here.
MS. UECKER: It looks like we're -- you know, I
don't know about the County Court or the County Court at
Law's, but it looks like we're averaging probably about $5,000
a quarter that we're getting reimbursed from the state.
Sometimes it's more and sometimes it's -- it just depends on
the type of cases we have. I think --
JUDGE TINLEY: 495 is court reporter expenses, and I
have a question. Why that is charged to jury?
MS. UECKER: I can't answer that either.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's always -- I thought the Auditor
put it there. Okay, Tommy, it's in your lap now. Court
reporter expense in the jury, why is that in there?
MR. TOMLINSON: That typically has been split
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between four counties for the 216th district. And I don't --
I don't recall why it's in that budget, but --
JUDGE TINLEY: This is for both court reporters, I
~ guess?
MR. TOMLINSON: It would be, yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is an example of a court
reporter expense?
MS. UECKER: Paper.
MR. TOMLINSON: Paper.
MS. UECKER: Machine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not --
MS. UECKER: The tapes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MS. UECKER: I don't remember -- I haven't seen one
of the District Court's budgets in a while, but when I used to
help them with their budgets, I thought that that item was in
there as well.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What item?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Court reporter expenses on
the jury.
MS. UECKER: Court reporter expenses.
MR. TOMLINSON: I think, years back, there was a
separate -- separate fund for that, for jury only, that --
where the jurors fees -- or the jury fee collected by the
courts were set in a separate fund. And, apparently, when
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by those funds. We don't have that fund any more, so --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it looked --
MR. TOMLINSON: -- it just stayed in there.
JUDGE TINLEY: In looking at the District Court
budgets, I don't see a court reporter expense item.
MR. TOMLINSON: There's not.
MS. UECKER: That's why it's over here, I guess.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Chairs.
MS. UECKER: Yeah. The only big item that I have on
there is the chairs. And I don't know how many of you have
served on jury duty. And why those chairs were selected -- we
weren't asked, but they're just like this. I mean, they're
just -- like, not even this comfortable. The seats are flat.
And if you're sitting there in a trial for a length of time,
then, I mean, it gets pretty miserable. They start fidgeting.
I mean, if they had at least something to give -- like the
ones you're sitting in now, to where you could lean back and
burn around and -- you know, 'cause sometimes they have
exhibits where they have to actually turn around and look at
them, and they're really not very comfortable.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much were these, Bill?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: These were about $400
apiece.
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MS. UECKER: I didn't put 400 apiece. I think that
we can get by with between 250 and 300, because they can't be
as high-backed as those, because the person behind them has to
be able to see around it and over it. So, I think I might
have calculated --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 200, I think.
MS. UECKER: -- 300 apiece.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 200-plus is what have I
written on mine.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 210, looks like.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about the
jury?
JUDGE TINLEY: 250 is 7,000.
MS. UECKER: 250 is 7,000, okay. I guess I figured
200.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you've got --
MS. UECKER: Probably.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're plugged in at 200, or actually
a little bit more, that would be.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 210.
JUDGE TINLEY: That would be 48 -- 4,800 at 200
apiece. Or -- no.
MS. UECKER: And I've talked to -- I've talked to
both the judges to see if they wanted to get involved in it,
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and they said, yes, definitely we need them, but they were
going to let me make the decision as to which ones. And so -=
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you going to make sure
they're load-rated?
MS. UECKER: They're load-rated? Yeah. Well, we've
had some jurors that probably wouldn't even fit in them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I didn't hear that.
MS. UECKER: I didn't hear that. I didn't say that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, these catalogs show they are,
in fact, load-rated.
MS. UECKER: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: They've specified --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, they are. These are
load-rated.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
MS. UECKER: So, I don't know -- this is -- you
know, at first I had put down just for one courtroom, but I
went ahead and included 2, because a lot of times what we do .
is we'll pick a jury in Courtroom 1; after the jury selection
is done, we'll move them over to Courtroom 2 so we can
continue doing pretrials and other, you know, cases in -- in 2
-- I mean in 1, or vice-versa.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. UECKER: But, you know --
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what's the number that
goes in there?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 6,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: You've got six, but that --
MS. UECKER: Might be a little low.
JUDGE TINLEY: At 250, they're going to run up to
7, 000.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 24 chairs?
JUDGE TINLEY: 28.
MS. UECKER: Two alternates. Sorry?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 7,000?
MS. UECKER: 7,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: And I've gone ahead and plugged in
2,100 on the court reporter expense. I moved that one over,
too.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much?
JUDGE TINLEY: The 2,100.
MS. UECKER: I'm pretty status-quo.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. UECKER: I will say that my staff has been doing
an excellent job this year. They've been working their buns
off, and --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell us about passports.
MS. UECKER: Passports?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Volume, et cetera.
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MS. UECKER: Oh, passports. We went -- right now .
we're kind of at a lull, thank goodness. I anticipate another
flush around the first of the year, when people figure out
that, oh my gosh, I do have to have a passport to go. I think
what the government was not anticipating was the family
members that have family left in Mexico that are here, either
legally or otherwise, needing passports to go see their
families. And I think that is the real big thing that they
did not anticipate. There were times -- there were weeks
where we were doing between 20 and 30 passports a day. I
mean, there was a waiting line with five people just doing
passports. Just doing passports. And we get a -- we get a --
actually get a report card from that state agency -- or that
federal agency as to how well we're doing, and we're doing
very well. There's only been a couple of issues about birth
certificates. We went from doing, I think, 24,000 last year
to -- the first six months of this year, to a hundred and --
$105,000. Well, we did 43,000 in '05-'06. About 20 -- or 19
or 20 the year before, and we're at -- so far this year, we're
at -- we did 105,000.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's revenues to the County?
MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: 30 bucks a --
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doing theirs expedited. And to do an expedited passport, each
one of those has to -- an expedited passport doesn't make
sense to me, but oh well. It goes in a separate envelope; it
costs $16.68 to send it, and it costs $16.68 to send it back,
and that postage has to be on there. We're charging that
person for that postage, so that is an offset. But --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Linda, do you -- isn't there
a new law coming in September, or January 1 maybe, where
passports are required to travel in Mexico at all, or -- and
Canada?
MS. UECKER: January. Yeah, January. Right now, as
long as you're traveling by land, up until January, you can do
it with a -- a birth certificate. We have had people telling:
us that they're really giving them a hard time, even on the
land travel, about passports. But after January, even to
cross the border into Mexico, you're going to have to have a
passport.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or Canada.
MS. UECKER: Or Canada, right. Whether you're
walking or swimming or whatever.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're going -- we have
some people swim that way?
MS. UECKER: Well --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, there will be -- probably
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MS. UECKER: Yeah. And even on national TV, there's
they were talking about -- I think there was an article in the
paper over the weekend about it taking eight weeks for
passports. That's wrong. We're at about 14 weeks now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. UECKER: Eight weeks on an expedited passport.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nationally -- I saw a couple=
days ago, nationally, there's, like, thousands of people that
completely miss their vacation. '
MS. UECKER: Yeah, that had to cancel.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Booked a vacation and had to
MS. UECKER: Of course, now there are a couple of
services out there, you know, that charge people a lot of
money, but let's say you're leaving for a trip next week and,
you know, your passport wasn't there. You can pay these
people to go down to Houston and wait in line, if you don't
have time to go do it, to wait in line all day to get your
passport and bring it back to you. And, I mean, there are
some services out there now, and we're giving them -- yeah,
we're giving them the information on it. But, you know, we're
telling them we don't know what the cost is, but, you know,
that's between you and that company.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Jody will do it for
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Gillespie County District Clerk is doing it now, so that's --~
I think that's helping us out a little bit now. I know
Bandera has started doing it as well, but we still get a lot
of people from San Antonio coming here because they can't get
the service in San Antonio at the passport offices, and they
heard that they can come up here and, you know, get treated
nice. And --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Are you saying that
you -- that you issue passports to illegal aliens?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you for asking. I was
going to ask that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you like to do it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. Thank you for asking.
MS. UECKER: No. We send applications in, but most
of those are -- are with illegal documents. Now, we have to
send them in, but we're required to put a note on there that
we anticipate that -- you know, we don't think that the
documentation is proper. So, most of those get... But, you
know, you still go through the process. People are going to
try. But I think -- you know, although it's not something
that the statute requires, the statute does say that the
District clerk is the only one that can actually collect a fee
for doing a passport. Most District Clerks do it. I just
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think it's -- it's a good service that we provide, and do
generate some revenue off of it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can resident aliens get
passports? Like green card holders?
MS. UECKER: No, they're not supposed to.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They use the passports of the
country they're --
MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- residents from.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
MS. UECKER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take about a 15-minute break.
(Recess taken from 10:36 a.m. to 10:53 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if we
might. We'll go with the J.P.'s. J.P. 1? J.P. 2. Judge
Wright is here.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Before I get started, Kathy's got
several pieces of new legislation. I understand we're not
discussing salaries, but I do want her to pass that out to you
so you'll know what we're going to be looking at when salaries
are to be discussed. Want to give it to them?
JUDGE MITCHELL: Mm-hmm.
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JUDGE WRIGHT: You're probably aware of a lot of new
JUDGE TINLEY: Two major items. The license issue
that used to be driving without a valid license or while
license suspended, and moved from Class B to Class C, which is
going to fall in your bailiwick as a result of the DWI
fallout. The other is going to be the change in jurisdiction
from 5,000, increase to 10,000.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Yes, that's primarily it.
JUDGE TINLEY: I suspect that's going to be less of
a problem than -- than the license aspect is, frankly. But --
but those are going to be some additional areas in your
courts.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Yeah. There will be a loss of -- to
County Court when people file from 5,000 to 10,000. But also,
I look for an increase in our court, because people don't have
to have an attorney to come and file their case in our court,
plus the fees are less. So, I think it will probably offset
the fees that are going to be lost in County Court at Law.
JUDGE TINLEY: The numbers of -- of cases where the
amount in controversy is between 5,000 and 10,000, that's part
of what this information shows here, is it not?
JUDGE MITCHELL: What the -- the first set is the
five	to -	- well,	it would	fall	under 10,000.	I mean, it's
5,000	to	10,000	would fall	in	our court now.	The second is
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1$
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last year's driving while license suspended, how many cases
they had.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
JUDGE MITCHELL: The third one is up to -- from
January through May, I think, or June, I highlighted what the
driving while license suspended, how many cases there's been.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. On the 5,000 to 10,000
amount in controversy, looks like the first five months of
this year --
JUDGE MITCHELL: That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- is what you've tabulated?
JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: How many total cases?
JUDGE MITCHELL: All the ones highlighted right
there are the ones that would fall in our court.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have them totaled?
JUDGE MITCHELL: I think it was --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 26.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes. I should have had it at the
top, I believe.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 26.
JUDGE MITCHELL: And then we had 26 occupational
also, which is not highlighted on there, 'cause we're not sure
if the occupational license is going to be in our court or
not. We'll find that out, I think, when we go to --
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JUDGE WRIGHT: We'll be going to class on the 31st
to find out exactly what all is going to be falling on our
shoulders now.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, on an annualized basis --
JUDGE WRIGHT: Also, daily, when we go to the jail,
we're finding more and more driving while license invalid
because of the high fees that D.P.S. is charging there. It's
increasing constantly, because people can't afford to pay the
fees to get their license back. They're just driving without
them.
JUDGE TINLEY: The $1,000 a year for three years?
JUDGE WRIGHT: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay.
JUDGE WRIGHT: It's going to be a boondoggle for a
while.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Let me also explain, though, that
there's also what passed in the Legislature, Senate Bill 1412.
That is where our fees have increased -- will be increasing
also on the justice court and the small-claims court. Right
now, the justice court is $15. So, when they come, it will be
moving to 25.
JUDGE TINLEY: As of January 1?
JUDGE MITCHELL: No, as of September.
JUDGE WRIGHT: September.
JUDGE TINLEY: September 1.
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JUDGE MITCHELL: And small claims --
MS. UECKER: January 1.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Is it January 1?
MS. UECKER: There's special legislation that says
any -- any fees attached to any bill effective in September,
the fees are always effective the State's fiscal year, which
is January 1.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Okay. Well, our justice courts
said September. So, anyway, small claims goes from $10 to $15
a fee. So, the increase in fees will also -- like, when we
come back later when we're discussing our salaries, this will
help offset that also.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, this sheet represents 26
different types of cases that will drop to your courts?
JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of this printout. What is
26 of the total -- what's the percentage of these cases that
will drop to your courts?
JUDGE MITCHELL: All those -- all of those.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the percentage of
them?
JUDGE MITCHELL: We don't know.
JUDGE TINLEY: 100 percent of those.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All those, whether they're ,
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highlighted or not?
JUDGE TINLEY: Annualized, that's about --
annualized, that's about 63 cases a year, if you -- if you --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- amortize that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's --
JUDGE TINLEY: That would be apparent, presumably,
county-wide.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: But, now, the number of the -- of the
driving while license suspended or invalid --
JUDGE WRIGHT: Is increasing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, it's already much more
than that. The numbers on those are, what, a hundred and --
how many do you have of those, Ms. Mitchell, for last year?
Do you recall?
JUDGE MITCHELL: I don't. I didn't even count them.
I mean, there were so many of them, I just didn't even go
through and count them, but it's the second packet there with
the dates.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. It's a significant number of
cases on those -- on those driving while license suspended or~
invalid. Those are going to be up significantly.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: About 200 in this --
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're talking about --
because of this, we're talking about we'd need to increase
your salary?
JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes.
JUDGE WRIGHT: And our clerks.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, because it's decreasing
the work over in County Court at Law, is it your
recommendation that we decrease his salary?
JUDGE MITCHELL: I can't recommend anything on
County Court at Law.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm just trying to get
some help here. Y'all may want to go talk to him first.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then come back.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then come back. `
JUDGE MITCHELL: No.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, it's done. I mean, the talking
to him -- the Legislature -- well, it's done. We are getting
it. Some of it we fought. Some of it -- I think the 10,000
is a good thing, because people that -- we are still the
people's court. They can come to us without having to pay for
an attorney. They can come to us and pay much less in fees,
and I look for that to increase, the filings to increase.
JUDGE TINLEY: I made some adjustments in some of
the amounts that Judge Wright had requested. Slight reduction
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in part-time salary. That was essentially to put all of the
J.P.'s on parity. One I increased upwards to 1,000, and
others I left at 1,000, and some I reduced to 1,000.
JUDGE WRIGHT: On the bonds, I understand we're
going to have a blanket bond now that will cover our clerks.
Is that correct?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, we've got that insurance rider
i now.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Okay. Is that going to change the
bond down even further?
JUDGE TINLEY: Unless there is a requirement by
statute that they be separately bonded, and I'm not aware
of -- of that requirement. It should provide that coverage.
The bonds would be for the elected official.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, which if there was --
if the law doesn't say that it has to be broken out, there's a
possibility that we put all bonds under one budget somewhere
else?
JUDGE TINLEY: What we've done is, we just recently
procured, and I think the figure was $1,600 -- 1,200 or $1,600
for a master rider to our insurance coverage for all county
employees dealing with county funds or assets.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: On -- I think it's criminal coverage,
defalcation. Now, there are some separate statutes that
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require that certain officials post official bonds that, of
course, we're going to have to comply with, with elected
officials and -- and some of the other -- the Tax Office, I
think they've got specific bonding requirements dealing with
TexDOT and some of their things that they've got going on.
And I think some of the clerks in the County Clerk's office,
there may be some Comptroller requirements, things of that
nature. But other than that, we've got this one -- one
addendum or rider to our insurance coverage.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that's my question.
Should -- should $200 be in here, or should this be zeroed out
and the $200 added somewhere else?
JUDGE TINLEY: It may well be that we don't need any
due again, we'll have to put it back in. That's -- if I
understand it correctly.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why are the conferences varied?
Some are 1,000, some are 2,000.
JUDGE WRIGHT: We've got legislative updates, and I
just received a thing we're going to have to go through a
school to learn how to do death certificates electronically.
That was not put in there last year. I asked for it, but it
25 ~ was removed last year. Now I'm having to have funds moved in
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you have to attend.
JUDGE TINLEY: We loaded J.P. 3 knowing that we had
a new one coming on board. We've done that with J.P. 1 this
year, because we've got a new J.P. coming on board because of•
the number of first-year hours that they're required to do.
JUDGE WRIGHT: 80 and 20 continuing.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why is your telephone line
item so much higher than everybody else's?
JUDGE WRIGHT: I can't answer that. I mean, I'm out
at the justice center, and I can't tell you. We went through
this last year, and I did get them to put me a hub in to get
phone there at the justice center through the Sheriff's
Office, but I'm having to pay for it down at the telephone
company to get -- to have my phone answered.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your lines come off of the
Sheriff's Department?
JUDGE WRIGHT: Yeah, it's part of that. It's
prorated out there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't we earlier decide, on the
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JUDGE WRIGHT: It will be what?
JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's the clear direction
that we indicated we were going, yeah.
JUDGE WRIGHT: I renewed -- I went -- finished out
the last contract, took out a new one this year that was half
the price. It's 300 minutes. Are you saying now that I'm
going to have to --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, just trying to -- I mean,
we looked at a couple different options on cell phones, and it
seems that the best option is to have -- the County should not
be subsidizing personal use on a cell phone. It's hard to
know what's personal and what isn't. Therefore, we're going
to go under a plan where we can add -- for $9, add each
additional cell phone for those employees that need it, which
J.P.'s would qualify. They get a county cell phone, and
that's all it can be used for, is county business. You'll
need your personal cell phone -- you basically have to carry
two cell phones if you want to, personal and county.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To me, that's the down side
of where we're headed. I think the allowance is a better
approach. Set dollar amount, period, and don't have to carry;
two phones.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option is to give
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every employee that needs a cell phone -- I think it's a $40
I allowance. That's it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the accounting is
JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, I just took out another
two-year contract to get it this cheap. It would have been
nice if somebody had said something about the county --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've been talking about it all
year, for a long time.
JUDGE WRIGHT: I'd like to throw it in the river,
quite frankly, but I don't have that option.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, that's something that --
that policy's going to change on cell phones, probably,
'cause -- you know, to one or the other, issuing county phones
or an allowance.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, mine -- this will probably go
down, because my phone is $42 or $43 a month now. But I don't
know how much the regular phone bill's going to be.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It seems like a little over
$200 a month is pretty high in telephone.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, maybe the Auditor can
shed some light on that, Commissioner. Is this a prorated
piece of the Sheriff's telephone system?
MS. HARGIS: No. We looked at it the other day
after -- after court, and it's -- it's basically a land line,
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and it's $149 a month. It's -- there's no long distance on
it. It's three phones, and then she has a roll -- a rolling,
you know, cost on there. She's got call waiting. It's just
three commercial lines, and then the cost of that line, and it
hasn't fluctuated for 12 months.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: It's the same. It's no long distance.
It was 149, 148 every month.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why is it higher than the other
JUDGE WRIGHT: I'm at the Sheriff's Department.
MS. HARGIS: I didn't compare the others.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other one's in Ingram.
Isn't that your --
JUDGE WRIGHT: They're through the courthouse.
MS. WILLIAMS: They're different phone companies.
Hill Country Telephone, Ingram is.
JUDGE WRIGHT: No, I'm not with Hill Country.
MS. WILLIAMS: Ingram is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're on KTC, but hers is a
separate phone system from the Sheriff's Department.
MS. HARGIS: Yeah, she's not part of the Sheriff's
Department. She's on Windstream. And her Windstream bill is
-- is for three phone lines.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's commercial -- hers
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is a commercial contract for how many lines?
'i MS. HARGIS: Three.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three lines. Is that three
lines each at 149, or --
', JUDGE WRIGHT: No, one.
MS. HARGIS: No, just --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 149 for the commercial
account, and the extra -- and the other two lines are
whatever. Okay.
MS. HARGIS: And Hill Country is cheaper, because I~
moved -- when I moved from here to there, it's a lot cheaper.
I can't tell you why. It's just a different phone company.
JUDGE TINLEY: Seems to me the issue is, we've --
we've got this whole courthouse networked. Is it not possible
to network all these lines that are outside the courthouse,
but within Windstream's service, area under one umbrella?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we have to probably
first address the number of lines that are available in the
courthouse. We're maxed out on the system here in the
courthouse.
JUDGE WRIGHT: We are at the Sheriff's Department
also. Mine does go through their central board. Every time
-- mine goes down real often, and they have to go over to the
Sheriff's Office into that telephone board that they've got
over there to --
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MR. TROLINGER: Well, the technical answer is, the
way the phone system at the courthouse works is we have one
trunk or one group of lines that we pay for for every office
in the courthouse. At the Sheriff's office, it's more
complex, because they have both emergency and non-emergency
numbers. Judge Wright's office has -- I think -- is there a
Center Point phone number that y'all --
JUDGE WRIGHT: No. I used to, but that's --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a Center Point
number. She doesn't have one.
MR. TROLINGER: Okay. It's more complex than the
I courthouse is. So, the way that the billing's broken out may
be a result of that, but the courthouse is so much -- so much
', less because everyone here -- all the all offices share one
trunk, or one set of lines.
JUDGE WRIGHT: I've addressed it over and over again
with them, and I can't get an answer.
JUDGE TINLEY: John, is it possible we can bring all
these lines under one umbrella?
MR. TROLINGER: Billing-wise? I don't know.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, for contractual rate and -- and
billing, yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Treasurer is shaking her
head no.
MS. WILLIAMS: I think it would be a logistics
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MR. TROLINGER: But it does sound like the J.P.'s
office is being charged for standard business rate lines at
the $52 or $53 per month, per line.
JUDGE WRIGHT: I don't have three. I've got two
lines coming there and a fax line. Maybe that's why they're
charging me for three. Because Joel's office --
MS. HARGIS: The fax line is a phone line.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Okay. Well, his comes out of the
Sheriff's Department.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, if you have two voice
I
lines and a fax line, that's three lines.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Okay. Other issues?
JUDGE WRIGHT: I don't have a copy of what you said
you had changed. If I could get a copy of that? You said
that you'd made some changes --
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE WRIGHT: -- to my budget.
JUDGE TINLEY: You didn't make a note of those
changes that I told you about?
JUDGE WRIGHT: No, my budget was in the car waiting
on me to come down there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Just tell me what they are.
JUDGE TINLEY: I reduced postage from 700 to 600,
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based upon use. I reduced lease copier from 1,200 down to
1,000, here again, based upon --
JUDGE WRIGHT: Okay. Now, that one I'm going to use
all of this, because they charge me for copies twice a year.
The rest of the time it's just lease. And I haven't paid the
second time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the first time it was 439,
including copy charges, according to what I'm looking at here.
JUDGE WRIGHT: And what else?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, part-time, did you get
I that?
JUDGE WRIGHT: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I reduced that from 1,050 to
1,000, put it on parity with the other J.P.'s. You mentioned
that up front.
JUDGE WRIGHT: That's not up to date yet, either. I
think I've got $30 or $40 left in that. Okay. Is that it?
JUDGE TINLEY: I think so. Any other questions by
anybody on the Court? Okay.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: I'll be real brief. I'm not going
to ask for a lot of money like these others.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Why should you? You're leaving.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Okay. Judge, you got -- you got the
numbers there before you. I think we made a couple changes
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80
per your telephone call.
JUDGE TINLEY: There was only one -- one change.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: One change.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's your phone bill.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: That's the phone bill. That's a
good thing, because we're going to make a change in the
program for cell phones, correct?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. ELLISON: That was dropped from 600 to what?
JUDGE TINLEY: 350.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: 350?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MR. ELLISON: Everything else remains the same.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, except I increased your 278 to
300 in --
JUDGE ELLIOTT: No, in the --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, there --
JUDGE ELLIOTT: -- bonds.
JUDGE TINLEY: There's going to be a requirement for
a bond incoming, so that's okay there.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: And -- yeah. Everything else is as
I submitted.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: God, life is good, isn't it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
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81
JUDGE ELLIOTT: And just -- we'll just hope and pray
that whoever fills my job can live within this budget that is
just plentiful for what the responsibilities are.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tremendously big set of
shoes to fill.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Exactly.
JUDGE TINLEY: Bounty is everywhere.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: All right. Anything else,
~ gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good to see you again, Justice.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Look, if you guys paid me any more
and required me to work any less, I'd think I was a
Commissioner. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not sure you qualify.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You may have overstepped it
there a little bit.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good thing it was at the tail end.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay, J.P. 3. Here again,
part-time down to 1,000 to put on parity. Bonds reduced to
200. May not even be necessary; I don't know. I actually
increased postage to 900 because of historical use. Office
supplies I decreased 150 because of -- of projections and
historical use.
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MS. HARGIS: Judge, a comment came up, we need to
add -- because we'll need new stationary for a new judge and
all that. New cards, new envelopes, because of him changing.
JUDGE TINLEY: In Number 1?
MS. HARGIS: In Number 1.
JUDGE TINLEY: In Number 1.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: True.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Scratch through "Vance
Elliott."
JUDGE TINLEY: Six months, 400 bucks we spent.
MS. HARGIS: You think that's okay? So, we'll leave
that? I mean, we'll look at it.
JUDGE MITCHELL: It worked fine for me when I came
in on that budget that time. It wasn't that expensive, new
stationary and stuff, at all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Trust me.
JUDGE MITCHELL: I'll show you where to shop.
JUDGE TINLEY: The other adjustment -- two
adjustments I made. Conferences I increased to 1,000, to --
again, parity. And --
JUDGE MITCHELL: Now, on the conferences --
JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me. Lease copier, I went to
1,000 because of -- of parity and historical use. And
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change. I mean, I'll have to come --
JUDGE TINLEY: Question mark now?	
JUDGE MITCHELL: Right.	
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I have a -- it's kind	of
more of a general question. I know you're going to parity	on
a lot of the budgets, but there's not necessarily a parity	in
workloads between J.P.'s, and it's primarily because 3 and	4
handle the interstate, which takes a lot more effort from t	he
standpoint of cases they got to deal with. The -- I'm not	
sure that in some of these categories, if that shouldn't be	
reflected. And I think if you look at -- you know, quite	
likely, the demographics and which J.P.'s -- or which	
precincts, with the new things out of the Legislature,	
workload I don't think is going to be equally distributed.	I
don't think you can take those numbers and divide them by	
four, the increased caseload that's anticipated, because I	
think if you look at -- there's a higher propensity for som	e
of those items coming out of certain precincts.	
JUDGE TINLEY: On the increased caseload because	of
legislative changes, I don't think any of us know. I think
presumptively, you've got to assume that those are going to be
spread across the board, until have you something to indicate
otherwise. On the other parity issues, the parity issues that
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-- that I'm trying to strike are not necessarily all of the
categories. Certainly, some of them are going to be greater
in the area of telephone, for example, because of Judge
Wright. Some of them, supplies are going to be greater. When
it comes to conferences, however, I think -- I think the
workload is not necessarily reflective of -- of the amount of
conferences. They all do the same amount of work in -- same .
type of work and same type of subjects, so in those areas,
that's where I've tried to strike the parity primarily.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree on the -- I mean,
salaries.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Thank you. I wanted to go back to
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the one that I think that
is probably -- the workload's reflected, the employees to give
those J.P.'s the ability to hire some more workers if they
need them. And hopefully they won't use them all the time,
but I just think that's a justifiable area.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. It's a possibility, certainly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's no way of knowing
how that workload's going to fall.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That workload, no, but you do
know the historical trends because of the effects of the
interstate on precincts.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm talking about
legislative -- the new legislative elements.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'd have to do a real
pretty in-depth study, I think, to factor in the interstate.
'Cause if you -- if you look at the monthly reports and just
look at the bottom line of the amount of money that the
department has brought in, then it's not necessarily that way.
Many times you see Precinct 1 J.P. bring in more than 3.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Never.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Bottom line also does not reflect the
total workload, either. We go to the jail. We --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm saying. It's
-- it would be hard to really see.
JUDGE WRIGHT: I have a lot less traffic, and more
civil, which takes more time in the courtroom. But the
primary thing is the magistration at the jail and the coming
out at night and doing the commitments and all the other --
JUDGE MITCHELL: Things that nobody else knows
I about.
JUDGE WRIGHT: -- extra stuff that we have to do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's spread equally.
That's -- y'all are on rotation on that, correct?
JUDGE WRIGHT: Yeah. But I'm at the jail, so I'm a
whole lot handier. (Laughter.)
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86
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Close.
MR. TROLINGER: Since we've gone to Odyssey, I've
been running the electronic conviction reporting, which is
automated now, but I take a glance at it once in a while so I
get a look at the number of statistics on citations filed to
D.P.S., and J.P. 3 is about twice --
JUDGE WRIGHT: She has a massive amount.
MR. TROLINGER: -- the number of any precinct any
given month. Just -- that's just a rough number.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Off D.P.S.?
MR. TROLINGER: Yeah, the number of citation
convictions filed electronically. I see the list of those for
all four precincts, and I'd say 3 is easily twice as many.
JUDGE WRIGHT: Interstate.
MR. TROLINGER: Per month.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that certainly would have a
bearing on the amount of additional assistance needed.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you asking for,
Ms. Mitchell?
JUDGE TINLEY: 1,600. Well, she doesn't use it --
if she doesn't need it, she won't use it, right?
JUDGE MITCHELL: That's right. I'm conservative.
JUDGE TINLEY: What else we got? Anything?
JUDGE MITCHELL: I'm fine with everything else,
gentlemen. I just really hope y'all really take a good hard
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87
look at the -- the other issues that we were discussing
earlier. I'd appreciate it.
JUDGE TINLEY: The ones that we're going to defer
until we know what, if anything, we can do?
JUDGE MITCHELL: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: See how much Judge Brown
wants to take in reduction.
JUDGE MITCHELL: I'm not bringing up Judge Brown in
this, that's for sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, y'all need to go down
there and work that out with him.
JUDGE MITCHELL: No. No.
JUDGE TINLEY: If the four of you went down there
~ together --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be four heads
rolling instead of one.
JUDGE MITCHELL: Exactly. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let us know when that's going to
happen. We want to be able to watch. Okay. Four?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just leave it like it was the
last year and let's go on?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I made -- I made a few
adjustments downward, and I see at least one that went up.
Speak now or forever hold your peace. Okay, let's move on to
the constables.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce? You know what he'll
do is come in screaming later on.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. He's going to holler
at me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That he was not notified of
these changes.
JUDGE TINLEY: I talked to him.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's going to happen.
JUDGE TINLEY: I talked to him yesterday.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't care. We've talked
to him for years. He's going to come in this Commissioners
Court meeting and scream because he wasn't notified of these
changes. He should have been here today, is the point.
JUDGE TINLEY: I talked to him specifically about
the changes that I made.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So all I have to do is
call you on the phone from now on and we'll work these things
out?
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure, that's the way it works. Okay.
We're going to constables. Number 1.
MS. BOLIN: Don't all rush up there at one time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 18. Tab 18.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 18?
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Check your guns outside, if you don't
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89
I mind.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Looks like a power play.
Number 1.
MR. BILLEITER: Number 1.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is going to be a tough
~ one, guys.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No place to cut. He didn't
give us any latitude here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't have your notes. We
don't have your --
JUDGE TINLEY: No, the reason you don't have them is
'cause I haven't made any, apparently.
MR. BILLEITER: I didn't get anything, so ...
JUDGE TINLEY: I guess that means y'all don't get
any dough at all this year.
MR. BILLEITER: I didn't ask for anything.
JUDGE TINLEY: You won't get it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way you wouldn't be
disappointed.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where are you with your
vehicles?
MR. AYALA: They're paid for.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. But, I
mean, is there 9 million miles on them and ready to -- when
will we need to get new ones?
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90
MR. AYALA: I have 54,000 on mine, so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. You haven't even started
I Yet.
MR. BILLEITER: Yeah, I've got around that on mine.
MR. GARZA: I've got almost 40,000 on mine.
JUDGE TINLEY: So we have no lease payments this
year, then?
MR. AYALA: No.
MR. GARZA: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will be nice.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many do you have on
~ yours?
MR. TERRILL: 187,000. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we bought that
one, though, did we?
MR. TERRILL: No, you didn't.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You guys, how's the fuel
allowance holding up?
MR. AYALA: Well, this year I'm going to have some
left over -- quite a bit left over, but I think we put 3,000
in there last year 'cause we didn't know what gas prices were
going to do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's on its way down right
i now.
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MR. AYALA: Yeah. So --
MR. BILLEITER: It's a --
MR. AYALA: Flip of the coin what they're going to
do. We could probably lower that a little bit.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what was going to be my
suggestion. Looks like we can probably lower it $500, anyway,
based on the projection. That make sense?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, for six months -- oh,
okay. Yeah, I see it. Yeah, okay, it does. I got some
administration recommendations on Number 2, Judge. Looks like
he worked on this one.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Number 2, apparently I did
I, work. I don't know how the others got by me. I apologize for
that. I did 2,000 there on that fuel. That seems about right
for --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 2,500.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can scratch 6416.
JUDGE TINLEY: I've already done that. We've got
some cell phone issues here, too.
MR. GARZA: Your Honor, Commissioners, if I could
speak on that matter? My stuff -- I've been using my own
personal phone for years, and then about three years ago, the
Court allowed me -- I buy air time cards, and I was spending
like $10 a month. I buy one every two months, which is like
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$49, so the County paid $20 and I paid the rest. And I'm very
frugal on my air time, and I feel like for my office, you see
my phone bill has never gone up -- or I've never gone in
excess of the funds. If I could be allowed to still do that,
you know, since I've been very efficient, I feel, in my cell
phone use. I don't have a contract. I buy a track phone,
which basically is -- I just buy the air time as needed, and
I've been doing that for -- since four, five years. Like I
said, the first couple years I used my own phone, and then I
think three sessions ago, the County allowed me to -- I pay
part of my phone bill. I would pay part of it. They would
reimburse me, so when I bought a phone card for two months,
the County reimbursed me, like, -- I think it was $20 for
the -- for the two months, $10 -- which came out to $10 a
month, and then I paid the rest. I was hoping if I could
still continue to do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just depends if we do a
county-wide policy, which is what we're leaning towards doing.
MR. GARZA: So, after the new session, I can still
do it right now, but is it going to change after October lst?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Possibly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on what you're saying,
you're not going to get injured.
JUDGE TINLEY: You -- you're sure not.
MR. GARZA: You've -- but you've seen my phone.
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Over the years, I've never gone over, or it's been very -- you
know, very low on the phone bill.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Terrill, is $2,500
gasoline allowance fine with you?
MR. TERRILL: Just fine.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're not going to get an argument
out of him about anything.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I just thought I'd ask.
That fine with everybody else?
JUDGE TINLEY: Angel, I think you had requested
3,500. The projected total is 1,400 for this year. Are you
going to be able to live with 2,500?
MR. GARZA: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On fuel?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we making them all
standard at 25?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's where I'm going.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd say leave it right there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Save a little bit of money right
I there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way, they can give up
enough to pay the J.P.'s a little increase in salary.
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JUDGE TINLEY: They'll take it, I'll guarantee you.
I noticed -- I noticed that -- well, I -- your insurance is a~
little bit different, Bob. The others come in at just under
500. You're a little over 500. I'm going to plug you in at
550 and the others at 500. Apparently it has something to do
with your ownership of your automobile.
MR. TERRILL: No problem, sir.
MR. TROLINGER: And, Judge Tinley, for Precinct 3,
we have a computer hardware line item there. Did you pick up
on that?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's 900.
JUDGE TINLEY: 905.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $905.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: We show that rounded to 910, 'cause
you got cents there. Looks like the operating equipment has
all been pretty much 2,500.
MR. AYALA: One thing I'd like to know, these
vehicles that we have are all out of warranty now, so a lot of
the stuff that may happen to them is not going to be covered.
1,200 is probably okay. We might want to think about upping
that $200 or $300, 'cause, you know, typically oil changes,
tires, maintenance -- we haven't even spent that, but we've
been under warranty. They're out now, so we might want to
kind of look at that a little more.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about -- how old of cars
~ are they?
MR. AYALA: '03's.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can you still buy an extended
warranty on them?
MR. AYALA: That's a good idea.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Look into the cost of an
extended warranty and see what it would be for -- you can get
them up to 100,000 miles, which may be several more years
worth.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, probably two more -- or
probably two years.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At least two or three. Might
be worth buying an extended warranty on them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 1 has a -- has a 454
line, vehicle repairs and maintenance. Number 2 doesn't have
one, unless I'm missing it. Why not?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's three. Equipment repair,
~ 1, 000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 454?
JUDGE TINLEY: 456 is the number on Number 2. The
numbers are a little skewed.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the same as 454 in
Number 1's?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
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MR. AYALA: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So what are you
~ saying?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I've got 1,000 plugged in now,
I but --
MR. AYALA: I was looking at David's; he has 1,200
on his for last year. I think they were at 1,000.
MR. GARZA: 1,000.
MR. AYALA: But since they're out of warranty, we
might be looking at increasing that a little bit, or possibly
looking at a warranty -- upping the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Anybody know what an
extended warranty package -- is it too late to get it, and
what it would cost.
MR. AYALA: No, it's not.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not too late.
JUDGE TINLEY: You can buy them at any time.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as you're willing to
pay for them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The thing is, we need to find
out how much those things cost. And if we go that route, we
need to plug that in somewhere.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Joel, why don't you
investigate that and find out that cost?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will be less than the
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amount that's budgeted.
JUDGE TINLEY: But you've still got to have regular
routine service and maintenance.
MR. AYALA: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: You got the brakes, you got --
MR. AYALA: Tires with tire rotation, things like
I that.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, your suggestion is that we
increase that 1,000 to 1,200 in all cases?
MR. AYALA: Well, it's something we ought to
consider if we don't buy a warranty, I'm thinking.
MR. BILLEITER: If we buy an extended warranty, we
probably wouldn't need it.
MR. AYALA: We probably wouldn't need it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would still come out of
that line item, probably.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure would.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 1,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Go to 1,200 on all of those?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You'll notice the constable in
Precinct 4's budget is considerably less than it was last
year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want to tell us why?
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think there's minus
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would do it.
MR. TERRILL: We lost my deputy last November. And
that has an effect on bonds, also has an effect on FICA,
everything with his salary. So -- and it brought it down
considerably. And with the medical program, I did an opt-out.
Since I'm retired military and I'm covered for Tricare for
life, then I didn't need that, and there was a group -- big
reduction in the health care cost.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He says he doesn't need to
have a deputy, what he told me. So, I guess that's why the
budget's lower. He's going to do it by himself.
MR. TERRILL: I have a lot of help and support with
the other -- the other constables and the deputy constable,
Eddie North, and when I have to be out of town or away from
the office or something for court, or something that needs to
be done, he steps in very willingly and takes care of that.
So, just -- there's no sense in adding an additional burden on
the taxpayers for that. It's not necessary.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wish the newspaper was in
here to hear that. Thank you. But they're not.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you, Bob.
MR. TERRILL: Wasn't meant that way.
JUDGE TINLEY: Probably wouldn't care.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me do this. Jody? Give her
those so she can make everybody a copy; then we'll go from
there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Joel, get back to us on that
when you find out what an extended warranty costs, okay?
MR. AYALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On a two- and three-year
basis.
MR. AYALA: They offer them --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Based on mileage.
MR. AYALA: Well, you can do one-year, 12,000;
two-year, 24; three, 36. Those are generic warranties off the
Internet. There's a hundred companies. There may be a better
place that the County can go, but I wouldn't know where to go.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they're Fords.
MR. AYALA: Well, yeah. Call Ford.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Start with Ford.
MR. AYALA: That's good.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Check with used car dealers,
too. They sell those things.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, they all sell them
~ now.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you can get them for any length
of time, any -- any mileage. They just crunch the numbers.
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MR. BILLEITER: I get three or four offers a month
from companies wanting to sell me an extended warranty.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too, on cars that I
don't even own.
MR. BILLEITER: Yeah, I don't even own any more.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I get cards in the mail
saying mine's expired, right? I never had it.
MR. AYALA: Thank y'all.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you. Good to see you,
Bob.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tab 11.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 11.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 11. Didn't we get a
separate missile from you somewhere?
MR. EMERSON: You did.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, $3,000 increase.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He'd like to be able to read
the evidence, I think.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I remember him
telling me.
(Discussion off the record.)
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JUDGE TINLEY: Rex, looking at that, I don't think I
of our switch-over to the Odyssey, and then you've got another
program that's -- that's generic only to your own operation
there, so I had questioned about that. And --
MR. EMERSON: I think I --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- other than that, I don't think I
had any issues with you.
MR. EMERSON: Okay. Well, I think I attached John's
information that he gave me on stuff.
JUDGE TINLEY: I increased that 4,566 to 7,570.
MR. EMERSON: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: That kicks it up a little over $3,000
to -- for that DVD fiasco that you've got on providing
defendants copies of their DVD's.
JUDGE ELLIOTT: We may not have to spend that much,
but I just honestly -- at this point, I do not know what I'm
dealing with, 'cause we can't quite figure out how to read
them yet. And the company can't seem to put us on track.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me again what that's
about. Is this -- does this have something to do with dealing
with other agencies?
MR. EMERSON: Yeah. Primarily dealing with -- at
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102
to new technology, digital systems. And under the rules of
discovery now, we got to provide discovery to the defense
attorneys, as well as we have to have the ability to show the
videos in the courtroom to juries. And we are absolutely
stumped at this point. Some -- some DVD's we can look at,
some we can't. Most of them we cannot copy. It appears that
the new software is going to be Microsoft-related software to
be able to look at it, but we just don't know that. Now, one
of the companies sent us a new Phillips DVD player and said,
"This will solve the problem." It doesn't. We still can't
look at it. So, at this point, I don't know what it's going
to take to fix it. John's been working with us trying to help
~ us, and --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you have more problems
from one agency than the other, or are they both basically --
is the problem on your end of receiving the information?
MR. EMERSON: Well, the problem is we can't look at
the information. They've changed over to the new technology,
without -- and without forwarding the information to the
prosecutor's offices on how to view it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. EMERSON: And apparently the company has not
provided anything to law enforcement on how to take care of
the issue, so we're in the dark.
MR. TROLINGER: Rex, wouldn't you say D.P.S. has
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103
done a fairly good job at helping you out? Those are working
fairly well, I think.
MR. EMERSON: D.P.S. has been by far the best.
We've managed to solve that problem, but we're really, really
struggling with -- with K P.D.'s system.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. That's what I was
looking for. What do we have here? Propaganda?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Those are the J.P.'s -- I mean
the constables.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Completed. On the County Attorney,
on 562 and 563, the two software things, just move those
figures over and include them, the 1,000 and 2,000.
III MR. EMERSON: And the one software program that the
Judge is referring to is our hot check collection system, and
it's really relatively inexpensive. Is that it, gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it.
MR. EMERSON: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. That was
MR. EMERSON: It was, thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait till we get down to the
real stuff, though. `
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. County Auditor. Tab 13, looks
like. I don't think we did him any damage.
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144
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Her.
JUDGE TINLEY: Her, excuse me.
MS. HARGIS: I did change the conferences a little
I bit .
JUDGE TINLEY: You got plugged in at 24.
MS. HARGIS: Yep, that's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I gave you, because I
knew that you were going to have to load up, being new on
board.
MS. HARGIS: Well, and because of my license, I'm --
JUDGE TINLEY: You got a license?
MS. HARGIS: Unfortunately -- fortunately, yes,
actually. After taking --
JUDGE TINLEY: That's wonderful.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does there need to be any money
there for part-time? Is there part-time? Or is -- Tommy, are
you working for free for a little while if we need you?
MR. TOMLINSON: I guess.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You guess?
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll take it. The contracts --
MR. TOMLINSON: What I'm being paid is in the -- in
I the --
JUDGE TINLEY: Assistants.
MR. TOMLINSON: -- Assistants line item.
JUDGE TINLEY: See how that's increased?
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105
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I see. Doesn't look like
it's free to me any more.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, it's not free.
MR. TOMLINSON: No, but --
JUDGE TINLEY: There's a separate order that the
judges entered relative to his appointment and his -- his
salary.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's plugged into the
Assistants line?
MR. TOMLINSON: It's 32,5, is what it is.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many assistants does that
I cover?
MR. TOMLINSON: Three.
MS. HARGIS: Three.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. That makes me feel
I better.
MR. TOMLINSON: And also, if -- if you remember,
when Mindy agreed to take the Treasurer position, the Court
agreed to return her to the Auditor's office at basically the
same salary she's making now. And this budget was done prior
to knowing that she was going to run for the office, so
there's -- there's 42,000 in that line item for -- for a first
assistant.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that number needs to be
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JUDGE TINLEY: By about $10,000.
MS. HARGIS: No. No.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A person coming in is not
going to have Mindy's experience.
MS. HARGIS: No, but I'd like to have a real auditor
in that position, and it's going to be hard to find.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say again?
MS. HARGIS: I'd like to have somebody that has a
degree that -- you know, at least an accounting degree for an
audit position. I mean, after reading all the stuff I was
supposed to do, I really need an auditor in there, you know,
that has -- has qualifications, experience, because I can't
teach them that and my job at the same time.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're not getting cold feet, are
you?
MS. HARGIS: Well, no, not yet. It -- it just --
the regulations, as I read them, requires us to do more
II, auditing than we're doing, and I'd really like to have someone
that was -- had that capability. And I think that gives me a
little bit of leeway as to hiring somebody that has those
qualifications. I think that we can find someone, but, you
know, that's still not a lot for, you know, necessarily an
accounting graduate with experience. But I think we might be
able to -- I'm hoping maybe I can find somebody that's
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107
retired.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we talking about a
graduate accountant or talking about a C.P.A.?
MS. HARGIS: A graduate accountant would be nice.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're not going to get a C.P.A. for
that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't think so. That's
why I asked.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems -- still seems high to
me a little bit.
MS. HARGIS: For a graduate accountant? They're
offering them 48,000 fresh out of school in San Antonio, no '
experience.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They get to live in Kerr
County; that's worth a lot.
MS. HARGIS: No, that doesn't work with me, y'all.
'Cause you're still paying way under what Harris County and
Montgomery County pay.
MR. TOMLINSON: I did check with, actually, Burnet
County. They're about our size, and their -- their first
assistant is better than this. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess it would help me if I
had a -- not really necessarily right now, but sometime during
the process, a breakdown of how -- what these -- how your
office is going to be organized under you, and what the
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responsibilities of some people are going to be.
', MS. HARGIS: And I don't have that yet, I'm sorry.
i
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we can get that, because it's
a -- sounds like there's some justification there, but at the
same time, I just hate to -- you know, the job descriptions
and all that need to -- and we can't arbitrarily pull salaries
out of thin air; it's got to fit the county system.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, one thing that I need
to know and be clear about is, how much of that office is
under	the	jurisdiction	of	the	District	Judges?	And are they
going	to -	- regardless	of	what	we say	or do, are	they	going to
order what they want?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As far as -- well, I mean, as
far as the employees are concerned? So, you can forget it.
Talk all day long; it ain't going to happen, if that's the
case.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think that at some
point, they just need to do that, if that's what they want to
do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Oh, I agree.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But I believe that these other
percent sure.
25 ~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's my question.
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109
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that those -- the
office staff of that Auditor is not under -- I believe it's
her -- the statutory thing, I believe, is the Auditor and --
what is it, the Assistant Auditor, Tommy? Or just the
Auditor?
MR. TOMLINSON: I think all -- they're all
considered assistants.
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
MR. TOMLINSON: And there's an A.G.'s opinion that
say they're not county employees.
MS. HARGIS: That's what I read.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, I -- I think that if
the situation were that they were short-handed because of
budgetary controls, and the Auditor reported that, it would be
changed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this goes -- it's the same
basic philosophy, that -- you know, and -- that if they're
going to be under the county system, which they are, all
county employees need to be treated the same, as with COLA's
and things of that nature, and I think step and grade and all'
that. And I don't think it's -- you know, even though the
judges certainly can mandate what they want, I don't -- that's
just not right. I mean --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are your assistants under
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110
the step and grade?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two of them are.
MR. TOMLINSON: The Judge has never stepped beyond
what the -- what -- like, if there were a COLA, they have
never gone beyond what the County approved, as long as I've
been here.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Only in their offices.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In their offices they have.
MR. TOMLINSON: So, that is -- he -- he has tried to
stay within what the County does for this office, even though
there is -- there is a statute that says that -- that he has
the leeway to change the salary as much as 5 percent before --
without Commissioners' consent.
JUDGE TINLEY: As to the Auditor?
MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. As to the office.
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Of the Auditor's office.
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would certainly think that
we would do everything we could to do what the District Judges
told us to do. I mean, we need to comply with their wishes.
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111
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they have the authority, I•
guess we don't have much choice, do we?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right.
MR. TOMLINSON: And, I mean, you know, the Judge has
never done that either. I mean, he's never allowed any
increase in the total expenditures in the office without the
Court's -- you know, without the Court's approval. 'Cause
I've always brought my budget to the Court.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that's on the -- that's
on the upside, anyway.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on to the Treasurer.
That's the next tab, under 14. I don't --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, I see something over
here. County Treasurer. Initially, though it won't be
decided today, the Treasurer has asked that -- that she be
brought back up to what the Treasurer's salary was previously,
which is about 5,000 more than -- than what it was this --
this current budget year. There's also a request for a
full-time deputy.
MS. WILLIAMS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's what she's asking for. And
then a lesser amount for part-time. But that, of course, is a
25 ~ personnel issue that --
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112
MS. WILLIAMS: Later.
MS. WILLIAMS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Other than that, it appears to me
that I really only had one question for you, Mindy, and that
related to your -- to your phone bill. Looks like -- what I
couldn't figure out is -- is how we got a projected year end
of 288, when year-to-date for the first six months was 267.
Have you got a special deal with the phone company that you
only pay for half a year?
MS. WILLIAMS: No. No.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other than that, I've --
~~ MS. WILLIAMS: The fax line that I have downstairs
is not on the phone system. It is a dedicated line, so it is.
III, costing "X" number of dollars every month. And the reason we
did that -- and H.R. is the same way. We don't have any more
extensions on our phone system; we are maxed out.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I've given you what you
-- I've recommended what you want. So --
MS. WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- not a problem.
MS. WILLIAMS: I do have one thing that probably I
didn't have on here, and this is something that Jeannie and I
have been talking about. She wants us to go to a different
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113
kind of check, which is going to require probably a folding
machine, right?
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
MS. WILLIAMS: And I don't have that in my budget.
I'm not sure exactly how much it's going to cost. I'll have
to get some information from her and get some prices.
JUDGE TINLEY: Got any clue?
MS. HARGIS: Not on the machine yet. The machine
that we were looking at apparently has a little bit of a flaw,
so I'm waiting to make sure that we get the right machine.
But I think, overall, this is going to save us money.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. HARGIS: Because, first of all, now we're using
an envelope, a sticker, and a check. Now we'll be using a
check, so -- for everything, just one piece of paper. And it
goes through the regular printer, so we're going to save money
on the checks, money on the envelopes, money on the sticker.
And it takes about 15 minutes to fold 800 checks, and they're
ready to go. You run them through the machine. So, overall,
your productivity is going to go up and your cost of supplies
is going to go down. The machine probably is about $400; it's
not that big a deal.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's plug in 500 additional on the
operating equipment down there, raise that to 750.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do you have -- how do you --
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does it not use envelopes?
MS. HARGIS: It folds it -- I should have brought
I one with me.
MS. WILLIAMS: A three-part -- it's a three-part
form.
MS. HARGIS: It's a three-part form, and it just
folds itself down and puts the address on one part, and so
when -- and then it glues it all together. And it's just --
you know, if you've ever seen a -- it's kind of like an
electric bill that you might get or a utility bill; you just
tear off the sides and you're ready to roll.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have money in the
right line item to buy these checks? 'Cause we're going to
have to retrofit the office with checks and so forth.
MS. WILLIAMS: I think probably my office supplies
line item will --
MS. HARGIS: Should cover those.
MS. WILLIAMS: -- maybe absorb that. I've been real
frugal, have not ordered any letterhead. I've been using
plain generic envelopes, putting labels on them right now,
because not knowing exactly what's going to happen next March,
I didn't want to go to the expense of buying a box of
letterhead that might be gone. So, I'm trying to be as frugal
as I can. But the only other thing, we may have to look at
25 ~ when we talk to Incode about changing the programming for the
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check writing.
MS. HARGIS: They'll just change the form, and they
already have that clued in for several other entities, so
that's not a problem.
MS. WILLIAMS: So --
MS. HARGIS: I've already talked to them about it.
MS. WILLIAMS: -- no problem there.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, just increase the operating
equipment line item by 500 to 750, ought to be good to go?
MS. WILLIAMS: I think so.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. How long are you going to
take, Diane?
MS. BOLIN: About three minutes, maybe.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll go ahead and do you,
then.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Perfect. What number -- what
tab number?
JUDGE TINLEY: Next tab, 15.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Number 15.
JUDGE TINLEY: We've talked about these things. I
think the major adjustments that I made, we reduced your
office supplies by 4,000, conferences to 2,500.
MS. BOLIN: Judge, can I keep that up at least to
28? Because I'm -- I've got one more conference I need to go
to this year, and I'm already out.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, your conferences, you're
~ wanting to --
MS. BOLIN: If I can at least keep it what it was
this last year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go from 25 to 28, instead of
~ 35. Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: And I think, other than what I've
mentioned, that's everything, isn't it? That should include
the capital outlay that you wanted in there, John.
MS. BOLIN: Yes.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir, that's correct. I just
wanted to make sure it was correct. We had some confusion
between Chapter 19 and County expenditures. We're trying to
use the Chapter 19, which is the voter registrations, as much
as possible.
MS. BOLIN: Right. Judge, what did we decide on the
office supplies?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the one I indicated that I'd
reduced from 26 to 22.
MS. BOLIN: 22, okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I know you've got -- you've got a
mailout coming, but you're indicating that you're going to be
spending about 17,5 this year. I figured -- .
MS. BOLIN: Yeah, should cover it.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- voter registration, that should
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take care of the printing. And then, of course, your --
your -- you got additional in your postage to handle that
mailout.
MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm. As far as part-time salary,
I've got so many people cross-trained, I don't even think I
need anything in that line item.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gone.
JUDGE TINLEY: Done. Contracts.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Next?
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more confessions you want to make
here, Diane?
MS. BOLIN: Let's see. Machine repair can go away.
I wouldn't know where to --
JUDGE TINLEY: I just got you plugged in for 100
there.
MS. BOLIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: You want to eliminate that?
MS. BOLIN: Yeah. We haven't used it in a long
~ time, so --
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's fine with me.
MS. BOLIN: And then we'll wait until we see what
y'all are going to do to me later to see if I'll let go of
something else.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Was there something you want
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to go ahead and commit to now?
MS. BOLIN: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing you want to tell us,
huh?
MS. BOLIN: No. I'm not letting an employee go, so
y'all can forget that.
JUDGE TINLEY: At least not right now.
MS. BOLIN: I have no intention of letting anybody
I go.
MR. TROLINGER: I will say, with the new -- with the
Tax Assessor's new online system and accepting credit cards
and whatnot, I'm pretty sure she's looking at a flat -- you
know, keeping the same number of employees for quite a while.•
The office efficiency has just, you know, skyrocketed with the
customers being able to do the online payments. And how much
in payments, Diane?
MS. BOLIN: Just the first year, the first three
months we had it, we did almost 500,000, just in credit card
payments.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Online?
MS. BOLIN: Online.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sit at home and make your
~ payments?
MS. BOLIN: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 500,000?
MS. BOLIN: Yes.
MR. TROLINGER: And I attribute that directly to
Diane taking office. She made all those decisions to move to
that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great.
MR. TROLINGER: The technology. We were doing
Odyssey and Orion to get the technology, but she made the
decisions to get that in place.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is fantastic. '
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are these people paying property
I taxes?
MS. BOLIN: Mm-hmm, property taxes, plus you can
register your vehicle online also.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My gosh, I had no idea.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you see that increasing
next budget year?
MS. BOLIN: The number of --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The volume?
MS. BOLIN: Yes, because it will be printed on my
tax statements this next year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good.
MS. BOLIN: And give the county website and the
payment information.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great.
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MS. BOLIN: So I was very excited about it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you through?
MS. BOLIN: I think.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many registered vehicles
are there in Kerr County, approximately?
MS. BOLIN: Here we go. Do you know what? I don't
I know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 46,000 people times two.
MS. BOLIN: Well, actually, the state mandates a --
that will be -- after we go over a certain number of
registrations, they add a dollar to the fees, and we got the
dollar tacked on. But I don't remember the number offhand.
No, I got too many numbers running in my head.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. BOLIN: So -- but other than that, I'm --
everything is good.
JUDGE TINLEY: When are we going to get our
certified tax roll?
MS. BOLIN: Probably around the 10th of August.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wow.
JUDGE TINLEY: We going to get it then?
MS. BOLIN: I'm hoping. I have a --
JUDGE TINLEY: I hope so too.
MS. BOLIN: I have a call in to the Chief Appraiser
now, so --
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: How's the --
MS. BOLIN: -- we'll figure it out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Different discussion. You're
the -- on the Appraisal District board, ex-officio, kind of.
MS. BOLIN: I get to listen and talk, but I can't
I vote.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How's that board going out
I there?
MS. BOLIN: It's going good. It's going really
well. If I can convince them that they need to quit raising
everybody's salaries, then we'll be okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Forget it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Doesn't seem like you've got that
argument won yet.
MS. BOLIN: No, I'm going to have to go to the
school board to do that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The tax roll issue, what --
why isn't it here today?
MS. BOLIN: Because, first off, by law it doesn't
have to be here till this Friday.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why isn't it coming in
~ Friday?
MS. BOLIN: Because they went to a new system; they
went to true automation, and their programs weren't working
correctly, about like we went through. They didn't get their
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appraisal notices out until the middle of June, and they have
I
to have a certain number of days after the appraisal notices
go out to have their board -- their ARB hearings.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is the drop-dead date
that they have to have it up here?
MS. HARGIS: I believe what she told me, that the
~ protests have to be in by Monday.
MS. BOLIN: Yeah, but the rollover here is, I think,
September 1st is their drop-dead date.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. BOLIN: So --
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's fold it up, come back at
(Recess taken from 12:02 p.m. to 1:40 p.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order.
We'll resume our budget workshop. Next one we got up is
Facilities and Maintenance. We've got a number of different
budgets here. One of the issues we're going to have to get
resolved is some of the personnel issues. The first one that
you're looking at is Courthouse and Related Buildings.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab?
JUDGE TINLEY: Excuse me, 16. It's the next tab.
Under your Maintenance Salaries, we're going to have to
calculate Maria, Mando, and Oliva there, and we're going to
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have to plug Tim in somewhere; he's not in these budgets now.
So, we can either plug him in there or plug him in somewhere
else, but he's going to have to go somewhere. He told me he
wasn't going to work for free in this coming year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where's the salary coming
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the current budget shows a
~ manager --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- any more. But -- and you've got
two under there, and that's what we've properly got with that
budget, with Shel and Bobby out there. And then you've got a
jail budget -- excuse me. It was shown as Parks Maintenance.
That's been expanded a little bit. You show one salary there;
that's going to be Sonny. Then you get to the jail, and the
maintenance salary there is Shane. So, you know, where we've
put Tim, we've put him in one or the other. But he said he
needed to be plugged in somewhere; he doesn't want to work for
free any more. The -- a lot of the figures on that first
page, Courthouse and Related Buildings, come from Maria,
because those are mostly the custodial/cleaning portion of it,
25 ~ and so you don't see anything in repairs and maintenance. On
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the Capital Outlay, you see -- probably see a note there. She
had mentioned to me the possibility of acquiring a floor
scrubbing machine for the hard surface floors that we've got.
She -- she hasn't gotten me that info yet, but she's working
on that. I was trying to see if they had one of those
available through the surplus equipment down in San Antonio.
I haven't spotted one yet. And she was going to TWX them
I also.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where did the repairs for this
building come in?
JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to see them. .
MR. BOLLIER: 513-450.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 513?
MR. BOLLIER: 513-450, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's 513?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's going to be the next to the
last page.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's general fund maintenance.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason they're
divided out this way?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Other than we did it
historically, I know we've -- that's the way we've been doing
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it, and we keep on changing.
JUDGE TINLEY: We probably need to devise a way to
probably, at least in some respects, gather them back up
again, probably bring the -- the parks and the general
maintenance together, leave the Youth Exhibit Center --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And jail.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- as a separate one, and jail as a
separate one. For -- for that purpose, I guess we could use
the general maintenance and courthouse and related buildings
together, too, but pull all of those three together. But from
the standpoint of -- particularly of Youth Exhibit Center, of
people control costs, we need to keep that one separate, and
probably also keep the jail separate. And -- and maybe gather
up at least two of the other three into one, or maybe all
three up into one.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably three up into one. I
mean, 'cause parks --
JUDGE TINLEY: General maintenance and courthouse
and related buildings?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think parks would be
rolled in, too; that it's not that big of a --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wouldn't roll parks in with
the Ag Barn.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not with the Ag Barn, with
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Keep it completely separate.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. For example, over in the
~ maintenance -- general maintenance, 513, fuel, oil and
together, but we probably need to roll all of those budgets
together. Yeah, Tommy?
MR. TOMLINSON: Judge, just for information, the
reason the jail is separate is, some years ago, we considered
taking federal prisoners, and to make -- to make that
department fully costed, we separated out the jail maintenance
in order to be able to calculate the daily rate. So, that's
the background on why that's by itself.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If that's not true, that's a
great story. That's good. That was good.
MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's true.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That makes sense, Tommy.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know, there really ought
to be a better way to organize this whole ball of wax.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a reason -- really,
jail -- I really see the Ag Barn's really the only one that
needs to be separated. The rest of them, even the jail, could
~ be put in here. I mean, it's no different than --
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Any other building.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- than the way -- than any
other building, really. Other than the amount -- you know,
how your staff is allocated.
JUDGE TINLEY: That will be done. I saw a nod back
here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have an argument with you
about the jail. I mean, if -- you know, if you have to -- if
you have to prove up what your daily cost is for operating the
jail to be able to show a charge in another county or a state
agency --
JUDGE TINLEY: Our $37 a day, you're talking about?
MR. TOMLINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we'd keep it separate.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree. I think we could
combine a couple, probably the parks.
JUDGE TINLEY: Parks and general maintenance, and
courthouse and related buildings.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, I think you can combine
those and not have a conflict. But if we put all that money
that we're going to spend on the jail every year into that one
-- into a single budget, it could be misconstrued, 'cause
there's a whole lot of money in there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may need to be
separate.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I agree, it needs to be
separate.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least we go from five to
I three.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's an improvement.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Kind of like platting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who-all's under general
fund, courthouse and related? Tim's in the supervisory spot.
Maria, Mando, and Oliva. Who else is in that second line?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. BOLLIER: Should be four of us.
JUDGE TINLEY: Tim and -- and the three that do the
custodial.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's your current salary?
MR. BOLLIER: 28,104.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 28,104?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's what you recommend we
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leave it at?
MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. That was quick.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's a personnel issue, isn't it?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll talk about that separately.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. But we'll -- we'll put
those numbers together.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Your salary, Maria's and
Mando's are all the same --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- at this time?
MR. BOLLIER: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: Maria's an 18-1 or 18-2; I don't
remember which.
MR. BOLLIER: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: And Mando and Oliva are --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Something less.
JUDGE TINLEY: 14-4's.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 14 -- I was going to say 14's.
JUDGE TINLEY: 14-3, 14-4.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's your classification?
JUDGE TINLEY: 18-2.
MR. BOLLIER: 18-2.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's an 18-2, and Maria's a
I what?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Either 18-2 or 18-1, I don't remember
which.
MR. BOLLIER: I think she's -- I think she's the
same as I am.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That should be an 18-2, then.
MR. BOLLIER: I believe.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have my position schedule in
here, but those --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. Well, that gives me an.
I idea .
	JUDGE TINLEY:	I can tell you, either 18-1 or 18-2.,
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: In this courthouse and
related,	why is trash s	ervice -- why was that zeroed out?
	MR. BOLLIER:	Because it was -- trash service was
put in --	I have it in	513 and 666.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: Okay.
	MR. BOLLIER:	And it should be 400, I believe,
Commissio	ner. Yes, sir	, it is. 513, I have trash service,
and 666 s	hould have som	e trash service too.
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Yeah.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: And does that include trash
pickup in	the parks, an	d places like Guadalupe Heights?
	MR. BOLLIER:	Yes, sir. We -- what we do with that
trash is	we take it bac	k to the barn and put it in the
dumpster.		
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COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	I see it in 666.	
COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: G	uadalupe Heights?	
COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Th	at's my question.	
COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	There's a trash baske	t that.
we've maintained for years at the	top of the -- of the	access
to the dam. And if it'	s not there	, you can be assured	that
we'll get phone calls,	because the	trash will mount up	like
crazy there. People go	down, use	the dam --	
COMMISSIONER	LETZ: What	dam is this?	
COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	Flat Rock Lake.	
COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Flat	Rock.	
COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	Flat Rock there. Tim	will
tell you.
MR. BOLLIER: Yeah, that's right there -- Guadalupe
Heights, right there by the water -- by the water, where
Morris Harper has his water thing.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go down to the dam right
there off of --
JUDGE TINLEY: Hilltop.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hilltop.
MR. BOLLIER: Hilltop.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, I'm with you. Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Every year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think Jody's wanting one
out at her place too.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She needs a new rain gauge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Road, rain gauge, trash barrel.
Anything else on your wish list?
MS. GRINSTEAD: No, but the road is priority number
i one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was on my way out there
this afternoon; I had this thing to attend.
MS. GRINSTEAD: I know.
JUDGE TINLEY: I saw you had your pick over your
I shoulder.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, ready to go.
JUDGE TINLEY: Which budget are you on?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 666 -- no, that's not --
nevermind. I want to be -- trying to figure out what you have
budgeted for major repairs.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We got two different items --
well, on the Youth Exhibit, we've only got 1,000 plugged in
there. _
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But on the courthouse and --
everything except the jail and the exhibit hall, those repairs
are listed on 513?
JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, we -- we've got -- we've
got repairs on -- major repairs.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 666?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 510, I don't have any.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got major in 513.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 513 has a bunch.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $187,000. That ought to be
courthouse and related; that's what it's for.
JUDGE TINLEY: In the -- jail is separate. Yeah,
we've got -- all the major repairs on those three budgets, as
combined, then would be on --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 513.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- 513. Now, let's talk about the
major items there that you see some notes down there.
Windows, old part of the courthouse. Tim and I have been
trying to get a handle on seeing what it's going to run to do
something about that. Good ballpark we've got there, 175,
180. These would be clad-type windows. But, I mean, they're
not going to be historically -- Historical Commission type of,
appropriate, but they will be appearance appropriate, but
energy efficient, maintenance-free, 20-, 25-year life. In the
process, we also discovered that the, quote, new windows that
were put over here on this new part of the courthouse are
wood, and they're ready to be painted.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a -- that was
probably an architect that --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Decision.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- that made that choice,
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because of being on the Historical Commission as well, with
I You.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are we going to be able to get
away with replacing these windows with windows that don't make
the Historical Commission happy?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess what they don't know
won't hurt them.
JUDGE TINLEY: We're not under any mandate to do
anything that's --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not historical -- we don't
have a designation.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't want one either, do
we?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- when we started running
out of money in that renovation project, then we quit doing
the windows. We did some of them. Like, I believe we did
Tommy's office.
MR. TOMLINSON: I think they went all the way
around, and they picked -- they picked some of them to do, the
worst ones, and did them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I guess what I'm asking, are
the ones that we did redo, though, do they need to be redone
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again, or is this just a matter of re -- 'cause these were
redone.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was here when we did all
these. These were all -- I thought every one of these was
redone.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We didn't do Commissioners
offices, I know.
MR. TOMLINSON: I think we did everything downstairs
except in there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MR. TOMLINSON: And I believe there were some maybe
on the second floor.
JUDGE TINLEY: They puttied, patched, reglazed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: And you can go around with a pencil
and probably poke a hole from the outside.
MR. BOLLIER: And if you go to the window right
above this one and this one, you'll find out that you can --
you don't push too hard on that glass, 'cause you're just
going to push it in. 'Cause I've already been up there, and I
have -- .
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what you're telling me is
that the redo that we did six, seven years ago didn't last
very long?
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MR. BOLLIER: That's exactly right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. TOMLINSON: No. From my -- in my office, in the
wintertime, if the wind's out of the north, you know it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't tell you that, did we?
JUDGE TINLEY: Can't keep the fire lit, can you?
MR. TOMLINSON: You'd be lucky to light a candle in
there. (Laughter.)
MR. ALFORD: Space heaters again, John.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Has the renovation been paid
off, or is it still -- still --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's been paid off.
JUDGE TINLEY: Paid off.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paid off.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How long ago?
JUDGE TINLEY: Last year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last year, seven years.
JUDGE TINLEY: You'd like to see this window thing
come down the pike, Jon? You've been the one that, year after
year, has said, "When are we going to fix these windows?"
MR. BOLLIER: If we get the windows fixed, just
imagine how much money we could save on our heating and
cooling and so forth.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think --
MR. BOLLIER: A lot of money.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- something's got to be done;
there's no question. To me, it's whether you do it all at one
year, or split it up over two or three years. And then, you
know, what the new windows look like -- I mean, if you're
going to change the windows, it's going to look pretty silly
to have different types of windows on the courthouse. You're
better off doing them if they're going to -- you know, I think
we need to put something in the budget for it, but I'd like to
hold off; let's look at windows before we look at what we're
going to get.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 175, is that -- how many
I is that?
JUDGE TINLEY: 77 windows.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Starting at Tommy's and
coming all the way around?
MR. BOLLIER: 77 of them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Old part of the courthouse, 77
windows.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Upstairs and down?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Every window in this whole part of
the courthouse.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not totally convinced you
can do that without permission from the hysterical crowd.
JUDGE TINLEY: We don't have any historical
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designation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it may not be the
Historical Commission. It's some commission that oversees
courthouse squares, that you got to get permission to change
-- do any kind of changing.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought that was only if
you took their money.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. I remember --
like Buster does, I remember going through this very thing.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's something to it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's one reason why we
didn't replace the windows back whenever this came about the
first time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plus our architect --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got to get permission to
make that kind of --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mainly the architect.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Walker could probably
tell you what he remembers.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Walker would love to do
this all over again.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
i
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I bet.
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MR. TOMLINSON: I think we had to get them to sign
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I remember. And I
mean, it -- it started before I got out of here. In fact,
this part of the renovation was done, and it was just fixing
to start over there. I think, you know, whether it -- whether
they really have the authority to do anything, I don't know,
but we did have to get them to sign off.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we'll look into that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to leave a
number in here. We'll look into that, and by the time --
between now and when we finalize the budget, we'll find out
and get the -- and we also, when we get our tax roll numbers,
we'll find out how much of this we can do, if any.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, I think they're probably
going to have to -- because of sizes, the windows, when
they're fabricated, will probably have to be specially
fabricated. So, if we do it, we probably need to go ahead and
do it all at once.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these going to be
fabricated to be just like this design of window?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah, they can -- they can do
it to look -- with the divided line up top, vertically and
horizontally, and just horizontal down below. They can do it
any way you want to. And also, the folks that Tim and I
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talked to -- we want to keep all of the inside stuff all where
-- cut right out and fit right up against our woodwork there,
so that the inside appearance will be substantially the same.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Still be able to use the same
I trim?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that's the plan on the inside..
I Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nothing wrong with the trim. .
JUDGE TINLEY: No, huh-uh.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we would --
JUDGE TINLEY: We want to use as much of that as we
can. What probably will make that more available to us is if
-- if they're fixed windows, where they're not movable sashes,
we can probably better utilize the trim. Now, they'll have to
go in there and --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could have an antique
window sill.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this price include
installation?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that ballpark includes
installation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we ought to leave the
whole 175 in there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: For right now, yeah.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we can always negotiate
some of it out or whatever you want to do.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a good idea.
JUDGE TINLEY: I was -- frankly, when we calculated
the ballpark, I was frankly amazed that it wasn't higher.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Oh, yeah, me too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much is it a window? What's
I the math?
JUDGE TINLEY: About 2,500.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many windows did you
~ say?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 77.
JUDGE TINLEY: 77.
MS. HARGIS: What did you say the number was again?
JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm?
MS. HARGIS: What was the number?
JUDGE TINLEY: 25 -- 22 to 25, in that range.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 175,000, 180,000 for 77.
MS. HARGIS: For 177 windows?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Did you say 177?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, just 77.
JUDGE TINLEY: 77 windows.
MS. HARGIS: Oh, 77.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Kathy, I don't think that includes
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your little basement window down there. We're going to have
to figure out a way to get that in a minute.
MR. BOLLIER: I think about $2,200 a window.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I think that's roughly what we
figured; 2,200, 2,250, something like that, yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds like a price out of San
~ Antonio.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's pricey.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are big windows.
MS. HARGIS: Those are really big windows.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And other than that, you
have a lawnmower and -- is that 7,200 or 1,200 for a
lawnmower?
MR. BOLLIER: 7,200. Z-track John Deere, radius
turn, 52-inch cut, 27-horsepower, 8-gallon gas tank.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commercial variety?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, it is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think much of the John
Deere noncommercials.
MR. BOLLIER: We have one that --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not worth much.
MR. BOLLIER: -- belongs to Adult Probation that we
get to use.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That commercial grade?
MR. BOLLIER: Works very well.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where are you on courthouse
~ grounds?
MR. BOLLIER: Where am I on courthouse grounds? I
have a gazebo that we're going with.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not talking -- I'm talking
about the weeds that are growing in the yard.
MR. BOLLIER: The weeds -- where am I with the
weeds? Well, my man has been sick. He had a four-way bypass,
so he was supposed to have been here the first of August, and
I hope he still gets here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a -- do you have a
quote from him?
MR. BOLLIER: No, I do not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that's what you're waiting
on? You sure got a noisy phone.
MR. BOLLIER: I did. I turned it off.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a -- I mean, a
budget number for -- I think we need to start putting some
more money into keeping up our courthouse square. I think
we're doing a terrible job. I don't know what a good number
is, but you'll have something before long, you think?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: An estimate? So, where does
that go under? Under --
MR. BOLLIER: That will go under 450. 513-450.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Building and grounds maintenance, 18
last year -- 18 budgeted; estimated to expend 18. Budget this
year is 20,000.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 20,000?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. °
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which one are you on?
JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute, that's under Youth
Exhibit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's Youth Exhibit.
MS. HARGIS: I started to say --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see anything under --
MS. HARGIS: 450 is 67,000. Under -- under general
maintenance.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Building repairs. I don't see
that number in here anywhere.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not on courthouse.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be -- if anything, it
would be under 510, under repairs and maintenance, but there's
nothing in there; it's been zeroed out. And I really think we
ought to have a separate line item for that. I think grounds
maintenance is different than repairs. I think we ought to
have a grounds maintenance line item so that we know what the
-- you know, 'cause if we get -- Tim's getting quotes from
companies to put us on a program for --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we going to keep
courthouse grounds separately, or under courthouse and
related, or are we going to include it in the maintenance,
parks?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's included.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the maintenance and
~ parks?
JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to take courthouse and
related buildings, the general maintenance and the parks, and
roll those into one. We're going to keep jail as a separate
budget. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ag Barn.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- Ag Barn a separate budget.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Where do I find the
number that we had plugged in -- I asked this of Tommy; he
couldn't tell me the number that we had plugged in for the
construction of the bridge across the two pieces of Flat Rock
Lake Park.
MR. TOMLINSON: That is in the parks fund. We have•
a separate fund for parks, for Flat Rock and for the Ingram
Lake.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Should we not roll all this
up together?
MR. TOMLINSON: We had --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sure would be easier to look
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at, figure out where you are.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause we're not even
looking at this. This was a big-ticket item, and it will be a
reasonable size ticket item.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're looking at 662.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six --
JUDGE TINLEY: Way at the tail end.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 662?
JUDGE TINLEY: You may not even have that page yet.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably don't, 'cause we
haven't gotten all the pages yet.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. We only give you what
~ you need.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We only get our little
pages, a few pages at a time. They don't want to confuse us
with the facts here.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's right. Don't give you what
you -- only give you what you need.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's all a matter of
interpretation.
MR. TOMLINSON: We started that fund for parks.
I COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me?
MR. TOMLINSON: We started that fund for parks.
Well, we got a grant from L.C.R.A.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right.
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MR. TOMLINSON: And we also received grant moneys
from -- I think from another source, for parks only. And so I
looked at that as a special revenue, so we were able to match
the cost of -- of the park operation or whatever we did to the
park with the money that we received from -- from the grant.
That's the reason there's a separate fund. I mean, it's not
necessary now if you're not going to get any -- you know, any
more grants for that purpose, but that's the reason.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there are none
available at the moment, none that we have at the moment.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you don't have have any
money to complete that project yet?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We put money in the budget
last year to complete that project, and it didn't get
finished, because the expenses to do the -- to drill the
I pilings and to construct the cap and all that stuff exceeded
what we put in. So, we still have the rail cars sitting on
the side waiting to be moved into place and finish the
project, and it has to be this budget year.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Leonard will give us a
number on that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But going back to my grounds
maintenance, I still don't have anything in my budget to
keep --
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	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: You don't have anything to
kill	the clover, replac	e it with grass.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: And everything else out there
that'	s not grass, which	is everything growing.
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Yeah. I remember the debate
going	back to when Fran	ces Speakman was still alive.
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Jon, it'll be winter soon.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Then we'll have brown weeds?
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Yeah.
	MR. BOLLIER:	Would that be -- that was all in 66 --
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: I put in $12,000 as a holder
till	you get some numbe	rs. That will be $1,000 a month, which
it sh	ould cover and get	us on the road to recovery.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: Which line and which budget?
	MS. HARGIS:	Plus 2,000 a month?
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: 1,000 a month, so $12,000.
	MS. HARGIS:	Oh.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Under grounds maintenance.
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Tim?
	MR. BOLLIER:	Yes, sir?
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Write the word "antiquities"
I down.
MR. BOLLIER: What does that mean?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Being old.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't even spell it, but
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14.9
those are the folks that are going to tell you what you can --
if you can put windows in the courthouse or not. It's a --
it's an agency in Austin. Antiquities.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that separate from
historical --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe not. It may be a part
of the Historical Commission. I'm thinking it is.
MR. BOLLIER: You said antiquities? .
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Antiquities.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like antique.
Antique-wities.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Remember "aunt." Aunt
Iquities.
JUDGE TINLEY: Tim, just remind me to get ahold of
the right folks in Austin about these dang windows.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey. Well, that's who it is.
That's who it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Texas Historical Commission, we get
stuff from them, and that --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My kidneys just kicked in and
I remembered.
JUDGE TINLEY: They'll be able to tell us where to
go.
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(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. What else we got, guys? Oh,
let's go to jail maintenance. Tim had made a note here, bid
to replace rolling steel doors, $17,200. He tells me the
sallyport door is just fine now.
MR. BOLLIER: It's just fine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So take that off?
MR. BOLLIER: We can take that off for now.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's really not plugged into
anything. It's just as a -- and then the other two items
there, Rusty's premium air conditioning.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of a big ticket,
I isn't it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do they really need to be
~ replaced?
MR. BOLLIER: The roll-up?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, the air and --
MR. BOLLIER: The A/C units?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MR. BOLLIER: There's some of those units up there
that we don't -- I don't see that we need to replace them all,
no. But there's three or four units up there that I see that
need to be replaced, because they're the ones that we keep --
the compressors are the -- we replaced compressors on those
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units two or three times, so that that's telling me something
that's not -- that's not right. And Jack no longer works for
Compton's, so the price that is on there -- that I have on
there, it may vary a little bit to the high side. I don't
know how much to the high side. But I would like to replace
at least three or four air-conditioners up there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much are they apiece?
MR. BOLLIER: They're, like, $1,000 per -- per
unit -- or per ton.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those are probably -- what size
units are they?
MR. BOLLIER: They're anywhere from a 10 -- there's
a 10-ton unit up there, 5-ton units up there, and I believe
there's one big 20-ton unit. Or I may -- I believe that's
right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does the 20-ton need to be
~ replaced?
MR. BOLLIER: It's a big one, yes. I -- that's the
one that takes care of the jail part itself out there, and the
biggest part of the jail.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wonder what it could cost to
build a -- put up chain link fence and put up a bunch of
tents.
JUDGE TINLEY: Bingo.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bexar County's looking at
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that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know. And buy a lot of pink
I suits.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let them sweat.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that something that we
need to go out for bids?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this something that, just
because we have a maintenance contract with a certain company,
that we have to purchase from them?
MR. BOLLIER: No.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seems to me like to
realistically look at this, we should look at replacing the
ones that need replacing, and then next year, if there's more,
then kind of get them on a schedule where you don't get hit
with the whole ticket at one time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said three or four?
MR. BOLLIER: Sir?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many units are there?
How many are out there?
MR. BOLLIER: How many units are out there? There's
I 20.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whoa.
MR. BOLLIER: On top of the roof, yes, sir.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, three or four need to be
replaced today?
MR. BOLLIER: I would like -- well, let's don't say
need to be. Let's say would like to be. Because --
', COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we don't start replacing
them, we're going to get hit with them all at once.
I
I
MR. BOLLIER: That's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think "need" is a better
word.
MR. BOLLIER: Okay. Let's see, we need to replace
at least three or four.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we go on a 5-year plan, we'll
do 40,000 a year.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then figure out which ones need
it the most.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the way I think it
would work the best.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I do too.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That way we don't --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can't --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can't afford $200,000
every -- you know, at one time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that would be --
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: That will get us going, and
start staggering them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That replaces four?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Four.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 200,000 just for four?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, that's for all of them.
MR. BOLLIER: All of them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh.
MR. BOLLIER: For all 20 units.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: For 40,000, we ought to be able
-- maybe go to 50,000, give a little bit of leeway on a couple
i
II, of the big ones. Something like that is what I recommend.
~i
i
I JUDGE TINLEY: HVAC replacement under capital
~ outlay, allocate 50,000?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what is this
god-awful number for the maintenance contract?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 48,403 for maintenance contract
I on HVAC.
MR. BOLLIER: Oh, okay. That was the extra -- in
other words, if we paid that extra $48,000 to Compton's, they
would come and maintain our air conditioners for that extra
amount for the next ten years. I believe it was ten years.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They want 48 up front, or
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4,000 a year?
MR. BOLLIER: All I wrote down -- he told me 48,000.
So, I don't know if they want it up front or if they want it
$4,000 a month. I would think up front.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think not.
JUDGE TINLEY: Standard 10-year parts and labor
warranty. Add 48, yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we're replacing them every
year, I think -- what are they going to maintain for that kind
-- that's a lot of money.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's something else that we
need to bid out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maintenance.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we bid that out already,
~ annually.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, that's just on -- we
bid out just what the service call is, an hourly rate to come
do something.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, but I wouldn't think
we'd want to be locked into a $48,00 annual contract to work
on the heating and air conditioning units at the jail.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Now --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know why we -- I mean,
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unless -- from a personnel standpoint, I don't know why we
can't change filters and all that; I don't know why we can't
get on a schedule to do that.
MR. BOLLIER: We do that already.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know that's --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're doing it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I don't know why we need
this, unless they're doing a lot more under that maintenance
contract than --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, they -- isn't the
maintenance contract they go and check the thing out, and they
j replace something? I mean, there's something -- don't they
replace a belt or something?
MR. BOLLIER: No. Under that thing, we'd replace
the belts. They would replace -- make sure that they were
charged, make sure the control boards are all working. And --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they do some things other
than going and just taking a look at it?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: According to the literature, the
estimate they gave was 10-year parts and labor extended
warranty.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's your record of
service calls on those units now?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You said this was a 10-year
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157
parts and labor extended warranty? Is that what you said?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what he said.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I said.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that means we don't
have --
JUDGE TINLEY: No, for extended 10-year parts and
labor warranty, add 48,403. That's to all these brand-new
units. That's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we did all 20.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- replacing the entire --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, that's if we replace all
I of them?
JUDGE TINLEY: And then the warranty, extended
10-year parts and labor warranty on all of those units would
be $48,000.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 11th year, they're all
I broken.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, buy all new units and
then buy the extended warranty on top of that. No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're going to -- I mean --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I vote no, if there's a
vote -- or I say no.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not into extended
warranties.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not into paying that kind
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of money for a new unit warranty for an extended warranty.
They do have some factory warranty that should come with them,
at least a year or two years.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: These units haven't been bad
that we had up there; they're just old.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, they were put in '80 --
MR. BOLLIER: Here lately, we haven't had a whole
lot of problems with them.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We had that -- whoever it was
over at the jail that Rusty had as an inmate --
MR. BOLLIER: Mark.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- did a bunch of stuff while
he was there.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, he did.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that may have something to
do with why they're not going out.
MR. BOLLIER: Could be.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Still, I think we need to
replace them on a systematic basis.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the five-year plan.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
JUDGE TINLEY: We're plugged in for 50 grand. Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The jail repairs, 75 grand.
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159
That's in addition to air-conditioners?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the jail repairs is now
going to be -- well, I guess that's capital outlay, 50,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What part of that jail repairs
has been air-conditioners in this past year?
MR. BOLLIER: Which part of the jail -- what now?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Repairs, this current year.
We've spent $36,000 on repairs year-to-date. What part of
that has been air-conditioners?
MR. BOLLIER: A big part of it. I don't have the
number.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if it's a big part, I'm
just saying if we start to go buy new air-conditioners, we may
be able to reduce that overall repair line item, maybe 10,000
anyway.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're looking at year
ending almost 73,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- if that includes a lot of
air conditioning now, and we're replacing 20 percent of them?
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MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much can you reduce that
~ 75, 000?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 5,000? 10,000?
MR. BOLLIER: You can --
JUDGE TINLEY: Probably five.
MR. BOLLIER: 5,000, probably.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, pull that 75 down to 70. That's
assuming that we do the 50.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if we don't do the 50, we
probably need to up it to 90.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is one of those times
when we need to spend the money.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Either that or put the tents
~ up.
JUDGE TINLEY: I've been an advocate of that for a
~ long time.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know you can buy a lot of
tents and chain link fence for $75,000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have the property out
I there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Probably even put a baloney
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sandwich kitchen to go with it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty's tent city. I like
I it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be happy to get the new jail.
administrator guy from the state to come down here and tell us
whether we can do it or not.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why don't do you that?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all want him?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bexar County's trying to
work it out with that individual, whoever he is. They really
want to do it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know they do.
JUDGE TINLEY: Criteria generally is you can do that
on a temporary basis if you -- if you're putting something
online to expand your jail.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. What comes into play
is temperature control and lighting and that kind of thing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have we done Ag Barn yet?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. We haven't gotten to the
pink suits yet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Done with the jail?
JUDGE TINLEY: Jail's after Ag Barn.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't recall talking about
the Ag Barn.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure we did.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Texas law may be different
than Arizona law where it comes to -- when it comes to inmate
detention.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very much so.
JUDGE TINLEY: What do you got with the Ag Barn,
I Jon?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is -- Shel and Bobby.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, is Bobby a full-time
employee of the Ag Barn?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
MR. BOLLIER: No.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's only what, halftime?
JUDGE TINLEY: About half.
MR. BOLLIER: Halftime.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So he's halftime there and
halftime here?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. He usually works -- I have,
him working right now Tuesdays through Saturdays.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh.
MR. BOLLIER: And so on Saturdays, if there's a
function going on out at the barn, he works that function.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But Shel is supervising
community service?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
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i
MR. BOLLIER: On the weekend.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've seen Bobby up here on
', the weekends too.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. If we don't have anything
going on at the barn, he'll -- he has things to do here on the
weekend.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, that line item needs to
reflect halftime -- full-time and halftime?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, is it half?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kind of the way it's been
working out, isn't it?
MR. BOLLIER: Kind of, pretty close.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's only going to be half,
we should probably only pay half his salary coming out of
that, 'cause it is being tracked.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm -- that's what
my point was.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that the salary that's
quoted there on the supervisor? Is that correct?
', COMMISSIONER LETZ: They -- don't those all have to
be adjusted, Bill? I think all of the --
JUDGE TINLEY: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- personnel numbers aren't --
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll have to pull them in off the
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164
', position schedule.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll get there. Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my question is, what do
we need to do under the capital outlay for some of our
long-range improvements over there?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we don't get Roy off of
dead center to do something, he's not going to have the money
that he's had this year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, even moving the
outdoor arena, I mean, my thought would be for this next year,
the goal would be to get the outdoor arena moved and get what
we're going to do in that outdoor building done. I don't
think it's going happen this year, to be honest. Get those
two things done, and then set up for the following year to be
able to hopefully build the new barn.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll tell you, one thing I was
talking to Tim about earlier was, he'd been wanting -- been
needing a shop area to build things and repair things, and I
was thinking it might be -- rather than build something down
here, build something in one of the -- you know, part of that
area underneath where we're going to have storage and stuff,
put in a permanent shop in there where they can have it set up
full-time, and use them when he needs them, and lock the place
up. And -- and that's kind of on the way by the lumberyard
going out there to do something, too, so I think that that
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like, plug in something for
building -- I mean, part of that space is going to be used for
storage, shop, whatever, and I think we need to budget for
that and for moving the outdoor arena.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be putting
concrete floor down. Is that what you're thinking about?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that -- part of that, I
JUDGE TINLEY: Side walls.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And sewage, utilities out there.
I That's going to have to be extended over to the sewer line.
MR. BOLLIER: Yesterday I just found out something,
that Adult Probation is wanting me to store a bunch of desks.
And, like I was telling Commissioner Oehler, I -- I haven't
anyplace to store anything. Everything is -- there's nowhere
to put it, and so I don't -- that's why I'm hoping to put the
storage space out there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I also said a lot of those
'~, desks, if we don't have a use for them, I suggest maybe down
~! where Eva's wanting to put in an area for training for
computer, we might be able to use those desks, take a few of
them and put it down there for that function, and the rest of
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them --
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Surplus.
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	-- surplus and out of here.
We don't	need to store	stuff tha	t's not going to be used.
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	Are they our desks or the
state's	desks?		
	MR. TOMLINSON: They'r	e ours.
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	They're ours?
	MR. BOLLIER:	Mm-hmm.	
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	I'm with you.
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	Thank you.
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	What are they? I mean,
they're	desks like my desk?	
I
',	
MR. BOLLIER:	
No, sir.	
Yours is one of a kind,
'cause I	built it.		
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	He built it.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	Custom-made desk.
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	Is it a desk -- like what?
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Li	ke I have?
	MR. BOLLIER:	Like --	yes, sir.
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	Kind of like my table.
	MR. BOLLIER:	Yes, sir	.
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	And how much is there?
	MR. BOLLIER:	They was	telling me anywhere between
10 to 12.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that sounds like the
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Wouldn't have to buy anything:
MR. BOLLIER: But, now, I think we still have a
bunch of stuff down there that came out of the clerk's office.
That big green book holder, whatever it was called, you know,
that had the rollers in it where they put the big -- and it's
still down there in the bottom, and I still have desks down
there in the bottom, and I still have desks down there in the
storeroom down at the other end. So, what shall I do with
those?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to have a
MR. TROLINGER: We have an eBay auction that's
continuously in operation. Is it appropriate to --
MR. TOMLINSON: We have -- we're stalled right now,
because the -- the guy that's doing the eBay administrative
work for us, his hours expired for his community service.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, until he's in trouble
again...
MR. TROLINGER: You have to realize, the guy -- he's
a head honcho with a large national outfit that works out of
Kerr County here. We were actually fortunate to get him. He
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did a great job.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause Rusty --
MR. TROLINGER: He's brought in $40,000 on eBay on
basically things we'd have no -- you know, be sitting around.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Arrest him again?
MR. TOMLINSON: I talked to Rex Emerson about a
contract with this individual to continue on a --
JUDGE TINLEY: Commission.
MR. TROLINGER: Commission basis.
MR. TOMLINSON: Commission, and he agreed to
15 percent. I think that's probably low.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty reasonable.
MR. TOMLINSON: Very reasonable.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very reasonable.
MR. TOMLINSON: Rex didn't have a contract, so I was
thinking that maybe next Commissioners meeting might be a good
time for -- to bring that in.
MR. TROLINGER: Good deal. '
MR. TOMLINSON: But right now, he's just trying to
clean up what he started for no fee. Right now, that's what
he's doing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what's a ballpark number,
150,000 to get all this stuff going and money set aside to
move the outdoor arena?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much was your arena, 10?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: The arena -- moving the arena, I
just threw out 150 for moving the arena and fixing up the
storage area, our part of it. The rest of it would be
donations.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you previously had
I a number.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Oh, we had --
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Ten?
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: No, it was 100, I think.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: More like 100.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: 100,000, yeah. The 150, we
ought to	be able to get going on all that stuff.
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Yeah.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: And these things are --
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: But all the rest -- you know,
the big	project, I don	't foresee the County putting -- I
don't --	we'd like the	County not to put much money into that.
We need	to raise that	from donations and grants.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: The new barn?
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: The big building.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Yeah, I agree.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: So, what do you want, 150?
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Put 150 in for this, and this is
basicall	y setting the	stage for that.
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Right.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: So that can happen.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got to start somewhere.
JUDGE TINLEY: It'd be tear-down of the arena?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Tear down.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Moving the outdoor arena, tear
down and rebuild the outdoor arena, 4-H arena.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With lights and everything.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this capital outlay?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then also, storage and
renovation of the pole barn.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you talked to Roy lately
about any of this? Going to have to get him kind of jabbed in
the side of the ear or something to get him started on this.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When do we do his budget? I
can tell you how to do that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we haven't done it yet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next week.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Be a good time to jab him
right there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll just have to grab him,
hold him up short.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can you can write him'
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a letter and say, "Your budget has been zeroed out. Please
report to the courthouse"?
MR. TROLINGER: Commissioner Oehler, I understand
that there are a lot of get-togethers in the -- at the exhibit
center. Right now, we've got no internet service out there
whatsoever. Do you think it's an attraction of any type for
to us spend a little money in the telephone budget to
establish some public access?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For people to bring their own
~ laptop?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And then County employees
could, in turn, use that also.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where?
JUDGE TINLEY: Ag Barn.
MR. TROLINGER: At the Ag Barn.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At the Ag Barn?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hadn't thought about it.
MR. TROLINGER: I estimate it's about $70 a month on
the -- which we typically put on the telephone line item, and
then $540 to put the hardware in to provide the service.
JUDGE TINLEY: You can wire the thing for under
~ $1, 000?
MR. TROLINGER: Wireless. Just -- just a simple
access point where the public can access the internet.
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MR. ALFORD: We used wireless during the stock show.
We put it up in the old office, and it covers both barns,
whenever we do all of our entries and data entry.
MR. TROLINGER: Right.
MR. ALFORD: We're all wireless on that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have that out there during
I that time?
MR. ALFORD: Yes, sir.
MR. TROLINGER: But it's just for that time period
that it's being brought in.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hmm.
MR. TROLINGER: It's a small number, but I think it
-- you know, the benefit to the -- you know, the type of
clientele you're bringing inside there -- I saw the schedule
recently, and, you know, maybe fill up the hall a little bit.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hanson is going to use it for her
dogs, maybe.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dogs. Maybe I saw some
Cutting Horse Association somewhere written down.
MR. TROLINGER: And then, Judge Tinley, I had a new
computer for maintenance here at the courthouse.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. TROLINGER: On the -- on the budget I presented
you, and one for the Ag Barn. Well, I had it listed under the
Ag Barn's GL code, 10-666-569. And I'm not sure if you put it
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on there, or if you put it on 510. That's all I had for I.T.
with maintenance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $3,500?
MR. TROLINGER: Actually, $2,182 total.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much?
MR. TROLINGER: 2,182 total. It would go in capital
outlay if we -- or, excuse me, it would go in operating
equipment.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 2,180.
MR. TROLINGER: I wasn't certain if that had been
included, looking at the --
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't see it anywhere.
MR. TROLINGER: All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In 10-666-569, there's 3,500
bucks -- 5,000 bucks.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you telling me that when
you budget for a computer somewhere, that you put it in the
actual budget of the receiver?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you -- I thought we
put everything in your department and then you got them paid
out of there.
MR. TROLINGER: Negative.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We never do that?
MR. TROLINGER: No. And we talked about that, and
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it just makes sense, even though it's a little bit more work.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Better to track it that way.
MR. TROLINGER: Each department, you know, each
entity, each office, it's reflected in there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I sure thought we did it the
~ other way.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He does it all, then he divides
it all up.
JUDGE TINLEY: I.T. --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He says this department needs
this, this department needs that.
JUDGE TINLEY: I.T. was how much for courthouse?
MR. TROLINGER: 2,000 -- excuse me. For the
courthouse, if we're talking about maintenance for the
courthouse, $1,091. And then we had planned on replacing the
Ag Barn computer at the same cost, 1,091.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, we want $1,100 for the
courthouse?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: For I.T., and then Ag Barn, you're
going to put another computer out there?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And then --
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that included within the 5,000
that you originally requested, that I knocked back to 3,500,
Tim?
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MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
MR. TROLINGER: No, it was not.
MR. BOLLIER: No, it was not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but --
MR. BOLLIER: It was not, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just carried over the 5,000
from prior year?
MR. BOLLIER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, it's included in --
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the reason I knocked it back.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you knock it back
further. 2,800? What were the other things that you had in
there?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, that'll give him 2,400 for -- and
if you look at the historical expenditures, 5,000, 3,700,
3, 000.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave it at 5,000, then, total?
~ 3, 500?
JUDGE TINLEY: Or 4,500 maybe.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, 4,500.
MR. TROLINGER: Then did you want to put high-speed
or public access Internet in the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where would you put it?
MR. TROLINGER: -- Ag Barn? At the front office.
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But then the wireless access point where the indoor hall is
at, to provide a good -- good coverage for that indoor --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we need that?
MR. TROLINGER: It's something that we can use --
the County employees can use. And then the --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Give me an example, what we're
going to do. I mean, in his office? You mean on his -- on
the computer, using it right there?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes. Yes, we have no Internet
access whatsoever to the county network, period. Alyce
Davidson had been using her personal account to dial up to
connect to -- you know, to provide access.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's Extension Office --
she's the Extension Office.
MR. TROLINGER: Now she's in the Extension Office,
there. That's what she had, was a dial-up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- I mean, is there a
need to keep it for access out there? That's the question.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He's talking about a new
i access.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he's talking about new•
access so if the Cutting Horse Association or the dog people
~ were out there, they can walk in there with their laptop and
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plug into it and take	care of whatever they need to do, as a
public	service. I thi	nk we need to probably try to sell
coffee	at that time.	
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Can we charge for this?
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Oh, yeah. Starbucks coffee.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: There you go.
	MR. ALFORD:	That's what I was thinking.
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: $2,200?
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: No, it's not even that much.
	MR. TROLINGE	R: No, it's -- the one-time the cost is
about	$540. The recur	ring cost every month is about 70.
That's	the telephone -	-
	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Why haven't you done it?
	MR. TROLINGER: No bucks, no Buck Rogers.
	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Ooh.
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: Oh. Kathy, get that quote,
"Oooooo."
MR. TROLINGER: But I think it would be a good
service to provide to the public. We've had -- at the
courthouse, we've -- I've had questions on that, which we do
not provide.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, yeah, add it in.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, what are you talking about?
MR. TROLINGER: It is the Line Item 10-666 budget
for telephone, which is 420. That's historically where it's
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been, for $70 per month. Which is -- Tim?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much do you want to add?
MS. HARGIS: $840.
JUDGE TINLEY: Say again?
MS. HARGIS: $840 for $70 a month.
MR. TROLINGER: Thank you. Yes, 840.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, 3,500?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And that will handle the
wiring too.
MS. HARGIS: The 3,500, though, where are you going
to put that?
MR. TROLINGER: And then for the 540, that's 569.
MR. BOLLIER: You're a good man, Mr. Trolinger. I
appreciate it, sir.
MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Up to 5,000 again.
MS. HARGIS: It's past 5,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Telephone's 3,500.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have to have 500 and 4,500 to
~ get that --
JUDGE TINLEY: Where do we have the 500?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the cost of the equipment
to get started.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under operating equipment?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
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MS. HARGIS: Well, I still have 5,000, so what do
y'all have?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We were down to 4,500, but now
we're back to 5,000 again.
JUDGE TINLEY: We're back, so we caught up with you.
MS. HARGIS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just leave it there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Took us a while to get
there. We're back with you.
MS. HARGIS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else on maintenance,
gentlemen? I added District Attorneys and Information
Technology on the tail end. We dealt with those last time.
But I got the impression that there had been some outstanding
issues, so I added them. And I think what I gave you was a
new printout on the 216th District Attorney, which should be
under Number 8.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eight?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. GRINSTEAD: These will be -- I gave you guys
clipped together that updated information for the four of
them.
(Discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: District Court, right?
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JUDGE TINLEY: That's 198th, 216th.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got 198th.
JUDGE TINLEY: There you are. What it looks like,
should be the third page on -- you should have gotten three
pages -- there you go. There you go.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 216th D.A. You got three
pages belatedly; two of them were reprints of District Court,
and the last page was District Attorney, 216th. There's some
penciled in --
MS. GRINSTEAD: I did not have tab numbers on them
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: These right here?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's not it. There's a new one,
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It had this cover sheet on it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know where I hid it.
I must have hid it from myself.
JUDGE TINLEY: Since we got this new one, I have not
had the opportunity to talk with anybody at the D.A.'s office.
You'll note I've made some preliminary numbers on there, and
had given you some personnel percentage adjustments that
they're proposing. The one item that -- that has not been in
the mix previously is reimbursed travel. I know some of the
25 ~ staff people were clamoring about that last year, because they
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were having to drive their own personal vehicles to the
that, and I tended to agree with them. So, we've -- they
finally got the D.A. to put that in. I've not had the
opportunity to talk to him about the numbers. We started with
2,500. As you can see, they showed through half a year 1,160:
I -- I don't know how that number progressed to almost double,
but I haven't talked with them. Just got it, as did you. We~
may want to continue rolling that one forward for further
consideration.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: I have not gotten a breakdown on
the -- the salary info, either. I intend to get that, though.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: What did we have outstanding on the
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. After the I.T. -- the
first I.T. budget workshop, I received news that my -- my
helper at the Sheriff's Office, the training officer,
submitted his resignation.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. TROLINGER: It was not unexpected, but I do have
a plan, and unfortunately, that plan is to hire someone,
another I.T. Department person. There's -- I don't see any
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three and four I.T. persons in those departments. And we've
done a good job at holding down the costs by -- by having Brad
in the courthouse and Michael Earney at the Sheriff's Office.
But with Michael Earney's departure, I'm certain that -- that
we're going to need to have another person in I.T. to cover
that -- that 24-hour-a-day very demanding department. Besides
the Sheriff's Office, that person will cover Probation,
District Attorneys' offices, the Ag Barn, and soon to be Road
and Bridge when they come online, and probably help out more
at Juvenile Detention. Animal Control being another one, so
there are some other responsibilities besides just the
Sheriff's Office.
23 person?
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MR. TROLINGER: As a training officer.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A training officer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Have you talked with the Sheriff
about your plan?
MR. TROLINGER: Not the Sheriff, but with the
chief -- with Clay Barton, I have. The feeling I get is that
they're going to hire -- or reestablish the training officer
position at the jail, and keep the position and rehire for the
position that Michael Earney's vacating.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As a deputy or as an I.T.
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MR. TROLINGER: So, his official position is
training officer. He handled communications, dispatch, --
JUDGE TINLEY: Personnel.
MR. TROLINGER: -- personnel, nearly anything
technical. So, essentially, I understand from talking with
the chief that they're going to reestablish the training
position in the jail, replace Michael Earney for the Sheriff's
Department training officer, and I'm looking at one I.T.
person. So, three people for --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the Sheriff doesn't have --
the Sheriff supports your man?
MR. TROLINGER: The Sheriff, I don't know, but --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Clay?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
18 person.
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MR. TROLINGER: I don't see him doing that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You may not see him do that,
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. But Michael
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't want us to get in a
situation of getting ready to go out, hire another person, and
have the Sheriff hire a deputy, then make him another I.T.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, I like this plan
better, because I think -- I mean, you get the expertise
there; then we have deputies doing deputy work more.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. My only concern is --
is that the guy should definitely be your employee, and he's
not fetching coffee for the Sheriff or doing secretarial work,
or -- I don't know. Do they -- would he do data entry for
reports and that kind of thing? Or --
MR. TROLINGER: No. This -- this is I.T. This is
technology. We've got 24-hour demand from the dispatch center
and the jail. So, there's some on-call responsibility.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you'd draw up a job
description that's pretty airtight, and --
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. And I anticipate a long
process of finding the right person.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can see how it's needed.
How much -- how much -- let's pretend that you had to do that
job. How much -- what percentage of the overall job would be
at the jail -- or at the Law Enforcement Center?
MR. TROLINGER: 80 percent.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So it's a full-time, 24/7
deal, basically.
MR. TROLINGER: It's more than half the reason for
-- for hiring another I.T. person.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I see that as -- just
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that -- I don't disagree with you. I see that as the Sheriff
using it as a reason why that's going to be his person, not
your person.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what we've got
I to avoid.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I agree; we have to
avoid that. But we've talked about that.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. I think there are two
options for the I.T. budget. First option, the option that
I'd prefer, is to hire one person. I don't -- I see Grade 26
as being a requirement to get the person that I need, that has
the capability and that's going to withstand the demands.
Brad has knowledge of the Sheriff's Department.
MR. ALFORD: That's why Brad's over here for now.
MR. TROLINGER: We've discussed that. You know,
there's an option to hire two people at a lower range, but I
don't think that's practical.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be Brad and one
other?
MR. ALFORD: And Brad was the Michael Earney, so
that's why he's over here for now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand.
MR. TROLINGER: I just made a quick comparison of a
few counties, and I think Hood County's probably the closest
growth rate and population wise. They have four in their I.T:
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Department. And I'd rather not build a large department; I'd
rather have a high quality -- the high quality help that'll
stay until 8 p.m. or come in at 1 a.m.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much money are we talking
I about?
MR. TROLINGER: Grade 26 is 40,704. But I have
shown on my -- on the I.T. budget spreadsheet that I forwarded
to y'all a total increase for next year of 56,189. That
includes everything; benefits, additional training, a
computer, everything it costs to hire and pay that person. _ i
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do you anticipate
engaging the Sheriff in this tete-a-tete?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When he gets back from vacation.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which I think is this week, I
believe.
MR. TROLINGER: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Careful, Judge.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That'll teach Rusty to go on
vacation.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You need to get a -- get a
permit for a weapon?
MR. TROLINGER: Well, they've got my fingerprints;
there's only one step left, some paperwork.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
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MR. TROLINGER: But it's been needed for a while.
The users in the courthouse have been demanding me to, you
know, get some help in here to sit with us and -- and help us
out some more. I've resisted, to be as frank as I can. I
what they need, and as far as the users, provide them good
services and give them good equipment, but not baby-sit them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only so far you can spread
yourself, too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The 261 is 40,000-what? We're
MR. TROLINGER: Thank you.
MR. ALFORD: Talking about baby-sitting, I came in
at 7:15 this morning and installed a mouse. So, I mean,
that's the type of baby-sitting John has to try to do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No wonder you look so tired.
MR. ALFORD: Used to having to work for a living.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Installing a mouse.
MR. TROLINGER: But I wanted to get that on the
table, make sure it is clear before we got any further in the
process. That $57,189 is a substantial increase to the I.T.
budget.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the new -- I mean --
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MR. TROLINGER: Happens every year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That 57 includes everything?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All the --
JUDGE TINLEY: Rollups.
MR. TROLINGER: Hardware, turning the lights on,
giving them a desk.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We got desks. Don't need one.
MR. TROLINGER: I tried to include everything, the
total cost of hiring that person.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John, do we still have -- are
we still under contract with a company here in town to --
JUDGE TINLEY: Gazelle.
MR. TROLINGER: No, sir, but I do use them as part
of -- we have a couple of different ways of paying them
contract services. And, for instance, he was in Adult
Probation yesterday, and they're paying him from his budget.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, they still just run over
and do -- install a mouse, that kind of thing?
MR. TROLINGER: Not that level. More along the
level of, "I've got an emergency and I've got to -- I've got
other things to do," or, "I need some professional help
pulling some wire." For instance, there's wire being run in
the courthouse. They just started the process of running it
in, and that's the contractor that's doing that. And, of
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course, we have The Software Group and eDoc tech, and they're
our biggest contractor. Those are the software maintenance
line items that you see, and they provide the day-to-day tech
support for software system terms, the majority of it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They do that from Plano?
MR. TROLINGER: Typically. Typically.
Occasionally, they'll be on-site, and I would value that
county-wide in the range of $110,000 per year is being worth a
database programmer and two additional people. Easily, the
cost of the contract money outweighs trying to hire people to
fill that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. We sure do spend
JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody have any little gems to come
out today, gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: While we're talking about all
these expenditures, maybe we ought to talk about some revenue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't until we get the
numbers.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course, I can't -- from
what I read of the law saying that you can go up -- what is
it, $10 on your registration fee? That doesn't go in --
JUDGE TINLEY: Didn't pass.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Didn't pass?
JUDGE TINLEY: Did not pass, no.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it did. Doggone it.
JUDGE TINLEY: We checked on it, and it --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was hopeful.
JUDGE TINLEY: It didn't get out of the gate good.
was first up this morning.
MS. GAULDEN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, excuse me, I have a
medical appointment.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
(Commissioner Williams left the courtroom.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That's Tab 5. I've been over
virtually everything with Kathy on that. Where I've made
adjustments, I think it's something that they can live with.
She understands that personnel issues are something that's
going to be looked at after we get the tax rolls. I --
MS. GAULDEN: I just mainly wanted to make an
appearance in case you had any questions or anything for me.
So, I'm sorry about not being here this morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think this is the best time to be
here. Everybody's so wore down and frazzled that -- that
that's all you need to do, is make an appearance.
MS. GAULDEN: Okay.
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JUDGE TINLEY: But we've pretty well been through
everything there, so no problem with that. Thank you.
MS. GAULDEN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sir?
JUDGE TINLEY: You had mentioned revenue.
There's -- there's some -- some possibilities that I'm
investigating. I'm really not in a position to give you much
of anything at this point, because I don't know the legal
basis, but there may be some new possibilities. Hopefully I'm
have that one in the next couple of weeks. Could mean
something.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're just as much in
suspense as I am.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's going to offer to cut his
pay, is what he's saying.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Actually, he might need an
increase. I was thinking about asking about a $20,000
increase for him this year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For the Judge?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, for the Judge.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He can always ask, you know.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's like that -- the baked
bean commercials, one of the funniest things I've ever seen.
He says -- the dog asks the guy, says, "When are you going to
give me the ingredients of the secret deal?" And he said,
"Well, when pigs fly." And next thing, this dog's got this
pig up there with some -- on the roof of the house. "Now,
just buzz the house over there. That'll do it."
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? Okay. Let's
fold it up. Let's adjourn.
(Budget workshop adjourned at 2:56 p.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS ~
COUNTY OF KERR ~
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my
capacity as County Clerk of the Commissioners Court
of Kerr County, Texas, at the time and place
heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 24th day of
August, 2007.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y • __ _ __ ___ _C_~___ _____ _
Kathy ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
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