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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
County Parks Workshop
Monday, November 26, 2007
2:20 p.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
ABSENT: BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
November 26, 2007
PAGE
Workshop on long-range planning, improvements,
maintenance, etc. for county parks 3
Adjourned 19
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On Monday, November 26, 2007, at 2:20 p.m., a workshop
of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the
Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville,
Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order a
workshop posted for Monday, November 26, 2007, at 2 p.m. It
is a bit past that time now. We were delayed with another
matter. The agenda item on the workshop is to participate in
a workshop on long-range planning and improvements,
maintenance and so forth for county parks. Commissioner
Williams? As being the parks guru on this Court, I'll let
you open it up.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. Several
weeks ago, it was called to my attention that there was
confusion over who's involved in the parks and what they're
supposed to do. What are the improvements? Who's going to
make the improvements? How's maintenance handled? Who's
going to make repairs? And all these things, and that there
was some sense that maybe we needed a workshop on these items
to talk about them and talk them out.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have to admit, those are
good questions.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it was a good point.
Long-range planning, improvements, maintenance of county
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parks. That leads to whether or not it's time for us to take
a look at the parks master plan, which is a necessity if we
ever go out for more grant money anywhere else. We did that,
as you may recall, in 2003; updated it from 2003 to 2008.
We're coming up on 2008, so I just want to throw the topic
open. Tim and I haven't had much talk about it, except what
I just said. The issue was brought to me by Road and Bridge
people in terms of what we can do, how we do it, who does it,
and so forth and so on. So, that's why we're here. That's
my opening statement.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we -- can we boil it
down to, like, one park? As an example, the new property at
Flat Rock.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think that's a good
place to start, Commissioner, Flat Rock Lake Park. We have
the existing piece which Commissioner Letz and members of
this Court worked on years ago to improve, and we made some
major improvements. We're making some right now in terms of
the bridge, where the bridge is at on our new section, and so
we probably need to come to grips, or may have some
discussion about what we want that new section to be all
about and how we're going to handle that, and what other
improvements do we want to make down there? Whose
responsibility is it? Is it going to fall under Tim and his
people? Does it fall under Road and Bridge? Is it a
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combination of both? And so forth. So, that's a good place
to start, Flat Rock Lake Park.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My first question is, who
mows the thing? Who's responsible for mowing?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We took it --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who has a tractor big enough
to mow it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think Tim's people are
now mowing. Correct?
MR. BOLLIER: We take care of the parks, yes, sir,
we do. We mow all of them. We do riverbank, the whole nine
yards.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What tractor do you use?
MR. BOLLIER: We don't use a tractor; we use a John
Deere riding lawnmower. We have two of them now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is --
MR. BOLLIER: I've been doing it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is that, 5 or 6 acres
out there?
MR. BOLLIER: Try again.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Try about 40.
MR. BOLLIER: About 40 to 50 acres.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 40 or 50 in the main piece,
21 in the new piece.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Twenty-one, and you mow it
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with a riding lawnmower?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. And it takes us about --
we do it in a day.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's got a fast lawnmower.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He does.
MR. BOLLIER: I'm not kidding you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You don't pull a batwing or
anything?
MR. BOLLIER: I don't have a batwing, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that's why I'm thinking
that it needs to be some kind of combined effort.
MR. BOLLIER: If you -- you see, like, the park
down -- Flat Rock Park, the one behind the Ag Barn, that park
is -- we keep that really nice., and that's the reason we
started mowing it with our riding lawnmowers, because it
makes a whole lot nicer looking park. And if you go down
there with a tractor and a batwing, it looks like -- I'm not
going to use that word in here, but you can -- you know what
I'm saying. It doesn't look good. It doesn't look good at
all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Looks like it's been mowed with a
tractor and a batwing.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks like an old field.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. And so we keep it -- we
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try to keep it mowed like your front yard. That's just the
way we've been doing it, Commissioner. And it doesn't take a
lot of time. I mean, Sonny stays down there and stays on it,
and we have B.J.'s bunch. They get the weed-eaters, and they
do the riverbanks and they do the trees and all that. And
what we do is get on a mower and stay on it all day, and it
gets done.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the status on the bridge
going to the new park?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just going to ask
Tim. Do you know where we are on the bridge?
MR. BOLLIER: I do not know that, sir.
~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I know the spans are
in place, and some of the tying -- all that tying together
and some of that stuff that takes place after you lay the
spans in place.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The spans being the railroad
cars that are there? So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. We've bridged it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We just can't drive it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't drive it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't get there from here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't get there from here,
and so forth.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, long-range, I think we
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probably need a new master park plan. If -- even if we just
have, you know, very little -- put a small part about Lions
Park and Ingram Park -- Dam Park, Ingram Dam. Our crown
', jewel of our parks is clearly Flat Rock. The big holdup to
developing the eastern portion across from Third Creek has
been access, and that's being -- certainly, in this budget
year, will be fixed.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably next couple months
will be fixed.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it will be fixed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, you know, that the --
we need to make some improvements out there, and I think most
of the responsibilities would come to maintenance. That's
how I see it. I don't see it as a Road and Bridge function,
I much .
JUDGE TINLEY: What sort of vehicular traffic do
you see utilizing this new bridge?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: County vehicles.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maintenance vehicles.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maintenance vehicles and
walking. I don't see -- maybe some cars, put a parking area
at some point. It depends a little bit on -- this changes
the whole lot as to that's why we need a master plan as to
what we want to do with that piece of property. I don't
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think we want trucks going on there. I think there are some
weight issues on the bridge. It certainly worked fine, I
mean, on Hermann Sons for a while. I think it's really more,
you know, a -- I don't know what a car even weighs. 6,000
pounds? Less than 10,000-pound weight capacity to that
bridge, I'd say. I don't think you want to put a whole lot
more than that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A lot depends on what we
determine we want to do with the newer parcel, the 21-acre
parcel.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a problem with
having just cars probably crossing it, but nothing much more
than a car. And if we -- but if we allow cars over there for
the public, I think we need to have a defined parking area so
we don't have donuts and other things done out there, which
would happen frequently.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the liability,
though, of a private vehicle driving across that bridge
thing? That would scare me a little bit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we had them crossing it
on Hermann Sons Road for two years.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's going to be
finished --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The same width?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same bridge.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that. But, I
mean, it's the same -- same size?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two flat cars wide. Two
flat cars wide, and I think he's going to put rails on both
sides.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Even those fishermen on
Saturday night could make it across there, then, huh?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, about the time they
start fishing. Maybe not by the time they end fishing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's pretty stout. I mean, I
think you could -- I don't know what the weight capacity is.
We didn't -- when you get into one of those things, you don't
know what it is, you err on the conservative side. But I
think, hopefully, I mean, it's open to some vehicular
traffic, because that's the main reason for it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We also talk about
improvements, Commissioner. You know, in the last plan, you
were involved in that intricately, and the grant money and so
forth and so on. And we did some improvements. One of the
improvements, I think, that was identified in the original
one that -- where we received the funding from L.C.R.A. had
to do with providing restrooms facilities. And we've kicked
that one around two or three times; we've got real close to
doing it and backed away, because there are a lot of
considerations about -- about the down side of that, whether
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that's a good idea or not such a good idea. So, I think we
need to revisit all that, maybe, and just -- just do the
complete new master plan which identifies improvements. Or
if we agree that the Maintenance Department has the overall
responsibility for maintenance, that's fine. That's good,
and come up with a plan and go from there.
JUDGE TINLEY: One of the issues we had on the
restroom facilities on the west portion of the Flat Rock Lake
Park was the elevation, and the ability to put something in
there that would be accessible and be up out of the floodway
or the floodplain. And we've got -- we got sewer coming down
through there now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, and to place it so
that we could tie it into the sanitary sewer system.
JUDGE TINLEY: The -- looking at the eastern
portion of that park, the newer portion, that whole -- the
elevation of that piece is above the spillway of Flat Rock
Dam. There's considerable variance in the elevation, and
might be -- might be something worth considering with some
restroom facilities over there as part of that plan, whatever
that may be.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There was a plan -- a pavilion
was planned over there, kind of midway down and up towards --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Taylor's fence.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Mr. Taylor's property, yeah.
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Mr. Taylor's, yeah, property. So -- and that -- you know,
'~~ and it was -- and that was a grant that we were trying to get
I
from the Parks and Wildlife that we just went awry real fast
on that application.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But, you know, in light of
-- I know it was part of the original consideration, but in
light of the fact that River Star has now put a pavilion in,
you know, I guess we can raise the question as to whether or
not we need two pavilions in the same general area.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think things like --
you know, relatively inexpensive things we probably can do
in-house, almost. Barbecue pits, things of that nature. I
don't know -- you know, I think a walking trail. Did we put
a walking trail in over there?
MR. BOLLIER: There's a walking trail up on top.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But you could -- you
know, you could do something like that. 'Cause, like the
Judge says, a lot of that property is not prone to flooding
over there, and it's -- you don't have sewer real close, but
you can still do restrooms and --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can do O.S.S.F.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, over there you probably
could do O.S.S.F. pretty easily.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tim, do you have anything
you want to bring at this point?
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MR. BOLLIER: Well, I looked over this and
everything, but, like, down there in the parks, I'd like to
see us put some picnic tables down there. I think that would
stop some of the parking up along the river. Or -- it just
depends on where we put the picnic tables. And there's no --
there's really not any parking down in that part unless you
pull off the paved road. You know, that paved road down --
I'm talking, you know, the one behind the Ag Barn. There's
really no parking there, unless you park in the field or --
or down by the river. So -- and just like Commissioner Letz
was saying a while ago, people are coming down there and
cutting donuts in there all the time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
MR. BOLLIER: So, I mean, we -- we need to do
something.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The problem of putting
tables or even barbecue pits, for that matter, down there is
that on those occasions when the river decides it's bigger
than it is today, those things get inundated and muddy and
washed away and whatever. We put tables in at Center Point,
and we got those concrete preformed ones that -- Drymala did
them, and maybe those are the kind that you could put down
there and sustain.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Flood.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Flood. I don't know. It's
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certainly something to look at. That's all part of the
planning, Judge. We just need to brainstorm. And we're not
going to get it done today, but I think that kind of refines
what we need to do.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you want to continue running with
that ball?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: His precinct, so he should.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Since it's in my precinct,
I guess I will.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've kind of been the
Court's parks guru, at least since I've been hanging around
here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll take it.
JUDGE TINLEY: I appreciate that effort on your
part. I know --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will do.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- you did the last plan, and put
that together very ably for us. We appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin and I are
still looking forward to having a frisbee golf course put in
at some point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's still the best idea
of all.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very easy, very Inexpensive.
Anyway, maybe at Schreiner, you can get -- and not just
Schreiner, but youth tend to participate with that more, and
that would be a good activity. And there are -- all you have
to do is get those baskets. You can get them at any parks...
JUDGE TINLEY: Produce?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, no. Produce baskets too,
but I was thinking more of a parks catalog. A chain, you
throw them in.
MR. BOLLIER: I didn't hear what you said.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Frisbee golf course.
MR. BOLLIER: What about a miniature golf course?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Frisbee's more -- it's easier.
There's lot of places to go for golf. I'm talking about --
you know, frisbee's fun.
JUDGE TINLEY: Less maintenance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You know, Tim, I -- I've
played golf all my life, and I still don't know how you play
frisbee golf. But --
MR. BOLLIER: I've never really seen it. I
don't -- I'm like, "Okay."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can see that there's a
small entry fee here, and some coaching lessons coming up.
JUDGE TINLEY: Training subsidy.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Training subsidies, and...
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MR. BOLLIER: I was thinking --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go to Austin.
MR. BOLLIER: I've heard of it, but never seen it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a lot of fun.
MR. BOLLIER: I don't even know how to play.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You could get -- you could
get -- my big dream in the thing is to get the Schreiner
University kids interested in it, and that would take a
whopping five minutes, to where you'd have every student down
there throwing a frisbee around, and get -- get us to host a
little tournament, and then invite -- you have St. Mary's and
you have Trinity in San Antonio, and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought you were going to try
to challenge the City Council.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's coming. That's
coming, but we're going to do that in the water. But...
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can see a frisbee contest
during the morning when they're out walking the dogs; that
would be exciting.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The dog park. I was
wondering when the dog park was going to come up.
MR. BOLLIER: You play it in the water?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. They're -- they're baskets
about this -- probably 3 feet in diameter. They're probably
5-, 6-foot poles, and on the poles there's a ring at the top
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that's maybe 2 foot in diameter, then a bigger one that's got
chain going -- swooping down. So, you're trying to get the
frisbee into the basket, and you hit the chain and it will
drop. So, rather than ricocheting off the -- put doglegs on
them, outbound, just like golf. You have three throws, two
throws.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like the little round
ball, myself.
MR. BOLLIER: I'd say we could have a whole lot
I more fun.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You got --
JUDGE TINLEY: You know they have the international
chicken racing festivals down in Center Point. I think they
are working on their fourth annual.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, fourth or fifth.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's a major international event.
And we could have the international frisbee golf
championships here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could do that. I'm not
sure it would be part of the revised plan, but we could do
that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you don't want to put it in
the plan. That might be giving too much public awareness.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we jump off this just
for a second, Judge, can I tell the other members of the
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Court about the T.Y.C. thing and Cornerstone?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, sure can.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just F.Y.I. F.Y.I., I had
a call during the lunch break from the Cornerstone people,
and they have, I think, jumped through their final hoop, or
almost their final hoop at T.Y.C. for their application to
use our facility. And they want to come down -- T.Y.C. wants
to come down on Thursday to look at the facility one more
time. They've seen it before, 'cause I've conducted that
tour. So, if I can get -- ask you to get with Kevin, I'll
call Kevin after this meeting, make sure everything is --
MR. BOLLIER: Working again.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- looking nice and the
place is in good shape. There will be a tour by T.Y.C.,
Cornerstone, and yours truly and you, and be there on
Thursday morning. It's probably going to be at 10 o'clock.
So, if you identify any problems, they need to be taken care
of, or you'll know about it.
MR. BOLLIER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. That's getting very
close.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do the -- have we heard of another
target date of when they're going to actually put kids in
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residence?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The only thing that
Mr. Miller said to me on the phone was now that we have
gotten this far, all of a sudden they're in a hurry. They've
been dragging their feet now for months, and now they want to
get in a hurry.
JUDGE TINLEY: Now that the shoe's on somebody
else's foot, it's time to move quickly. I see, okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll try and find that out,
Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything more for the
workshop, gentlemen? We'll be adjourned.
(Commissioners Court workshop adjourned at 2:40 p.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR I
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of November,
2007.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y : ____~k - -- ---
Kathy nik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
11-26-07 wk