1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
and
KERRVILLE CITY COUNCIL
Joint Meeting
Monday, December 15, 2008
9:00 a.m.
Upper Guadalupe River Authority
Lecture Hall
125 Lehmann Drive
Kerrville, Texas
Kerr County Commissioners Court:
PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
Kerrville City Council:
T. SCOTT GROSS, Mayor Pro Tem
R. BRUCE MOTHERAL, Councilperson, Place 1
MACK HAMILTON, Councilperson, Place 2
CHUCK COLEMAN, Councilperson, Place 4
ABSENT: TODD BOCK, Mayor

~o
D
2
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I N D E X
December 15, 2008
1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
joint agreement between Kerr County and the
City of Kerrville with the Normandy Group for
governmental relations assistance to obtain
federal government funding or other assistance
for economic development projects, and projects,
installations, infrastructure and/or facilities
needs for Kerrville and Kerr County
--- Adjourned
PAGE
3
55
12-15-08 jcc
3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
On Monday, December 15, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a joint
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court and Kerrville
City Council was held in the U.G.R.A. Lecture Hall, 125
Lehmann Drive, Kerrville, Texas, and the following
proceedings were had in open court:
II P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me call the Kerr County
Commissioners Court to order for this joint meeting with the
Kerrville City Council posted and scheduled for this date and
time, Monday, December 15, 2008, at 9 a.m. It is a bit past
that time now. Councilman?
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Well, I suppose one of us --
Chuck, you're the senior council member. Why don't you call
it?
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Sure. I should have paid more
attention. (Laughter.) On today's date, Monday,
December 15, 2008, at 9 o'clock, here in the U.G.R.A. Lecture
Hall, I hereby call the City Council to order.
JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the single agenda item on the
meeting, and I think they're -- they're identical items,
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on a joint
agreement between Kerr County and the City of Kerrville with
the Normandy Group for governmental relations assistance to
obtain federal government funding or other assistance for
economic development projects, and projects, installations,
12-15-08 jcc
4
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
infrastructure and/or facilities needs for Kerrville and Kerr
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Sure, absolutely.
MR. BONILLA: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: And very ably represented Kerr
County when Kerr County was in his district, and we're
grateful for his service that he provided at that time.
Mr. Bonilla is a principal in the Normandy Group, which is
a -- a government relations firm in Washington, D.C. And
when we were in Washington recently as part of an economic
development team that has been going up there on an annual
basis, Guy Overby was there, Brian Bondy was, Mayor Bock was
there, myself, and I believe Sue Tiemann, who was the
chairman of the Kerr Economic Development Foundation. We had
occasion to -- to talk with Mr. Bonilla and one of his
associates about the possibility of obtaining their
assistance -- the Normandy Group's assistance with projects
that might benefit from federal funding here in Kerrville and
Kerr County. And we -- I discussed this with the mayor, and
we put this meeting together today rather -- rather quickly
for two reasons. Number one, the new Congress will be
convening next month, and things are already being put into
12-15-08 jcc
5
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
until sometime after the first of the year, and I know his
schedule's going to be very, very heavily impacted after the
convening of Congress. So, the -- the purpose of the meeting
today is to have a presentation by the former congressman
with regard to the services that he may be able to provide to
the City and the County in obtaining maximum federal funding
or other assistance for any projects that are in Kerrville
and Kerr County area. Welcome. Glad to have you here.
MR. BONILLA: Thank you, Judge. Shall I go ahead
and -- all right. Well, first let me thank y'all for putting
this meeting together on such short notice. I remember I was
in sitting in my office last week. Guy called me and said,
"When can you come down here?" And I looked at the calendar.
I said, "Man, Christmas is the week after next, but we're
going to figure this out," and we did, on -- on very short
notice. I was very fortunate to have gotten to know some of
you in a couple of years that I did have you in my
congressional district. And then who would have thought that
the U.S. Supreme Court would then take Kerr County and
Kerrville away, as well as my other hill country counties, in
a controversial decision. It's all water under the bridge.
And so now I've been -- I lost a special election; I've been
out office now for going on two years. And as the Judge
12-15-08 jcc
6
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
said, I'm a partner with the Normandy Group, a government
relations firm. It's a group of people that I worked with
very closely when I was in office. And just a little
background, because it's relevant to the points that I want
to make about communities like Kerrville and Kerr County
retaining government relations firms like the Normandy Group.
When I first was elected, I had never even run for
student council before, so I had very little knowledge of the
governmental culture in Washington until I had been there --
gotten there and been there for a while. And then -- you
know, on any given day, you very quickly, as a member of
Congress or a member of the U.S. Senate, understand that your
day's broken down into about 20-minute periods or 30-minute
periods where you're meeting with -- you might be meeting
with representatives from your communities along the border,
or you might be meeting with hospital representatives or
county judges from your district. In my case, I had over 100
cities and towns in my area, or people from your schools or
people with the border patrol or other federal issues, trade
issues, environmental issues, so -- and not to mention the
political things that you have to be involved with every day.
So, every 30-minute period of the day is -- it is a critical
meeting that you better be an expert on, and you and your
staff work on pretty hard.
And I say that because as I moved along through the
12-15-08 jcc
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
7
constituents were wanting them to do, but you can only do so
many things in any given day, and prioritize so many things
on any given day. So, as you move through the -- through the
calendar, you know, whether it's City of Laredo that was in
my area during the 90's, or whether it was City of San
Laredo, Texas A & M, Texas Tech, Texas State system, Santa
Rosa Hospital, U.S.A.A., all of them, you find -- I learned
over the years they retain government relations firms to make
sure that they -- that nothing gets overlooked in terms of
something that may be important to them up in Washington.
So, as the years moved on, I realized the value
that these firms bring to these people, and if they didn't
exist and didn't bring value, they wouldn't exist for the
long-term, because they're businesses -- we are businesses
like anybody else, and if people don't feel like they're
getting their money's worth for what they're putting into
your firm, they're not going to keep you. So, we -- we now
are what amounts to a congressional office in the private
sector. And you all have a great member of Congress that
represents your needs, and -- but, again, if you walk in his
12-15-08 jcc
8
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
shoes, as you would have in mine over the years, you want to
do everything you possibly can to help your communities, but
And in Congress, there are people -- for example,
Lamar Smith is on the judiciary committee; he works very hard
on that. I have a history on the appropriations committee
for 14 years, where I still have most of the contacts
there -- well, probably 90 percent of the people that I
worked with, I see them all the time, and I'm able to
bird-dog issues for clients that they bring forward and make
sure that they get the attention that they need. We don't
always succeed; I'm not saying that. Didn't always succeed
when I was in office on projects, but you just want to make
sure that you get the best opportunity that you possibly can.
And that's how -- that's why Guy and I, in the beginning, and
then the Judge and the mayor came up and we -- we talked
about this, and progressed, I think, nicely over the last few
months to see if, in fact, you all want to do this.
This year coming up, '09, is going to present some
incredible opportunities, not just for this community, but
for communities all across the country. You've probably seen
in the news this new stimulus plan that the new
administration wants to implement pretty quickly for
transportation projects, many of them that are, quote,
12-15-08 jcc
9
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
that price tag is too big; that's another discussion that
some Americans might have as to whether or not it's too big,
but the fact of the matter is, it's on track to more than
likely get done.
The other opportunity, as we've spoken before in
our meetings, is the transportation bill, which is aside from
the one I just mentioned, that gets renewed every five or six
years for routine projects that get funded in communities all
across America. That is -- so that's another huge
opportunity that happens to be coming due probably in late
'09. It may get pushed into -- into 2010, but this plan is
to work on that now, and it might be more significant because
of the idea now that they want to get more -- "they" meaning
Washington, wants to get more projects funded and people back
to work. I mean, i.e., maybe a little bit like the old
F.D.R. public works programs, because of the difficult
economic situation that we face. And then, of course, not
any less significant is the routine, regular annual
12-15-08 jcc
l
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
10
that go through the regular process, and there is an
expectation that, unlike last year, when this process reached
-- hit a brick wall, except for defense issues, that this --
this is going to move forward this year under the new
administration and the new Congress.
So, all of those -- those big three big
opportunities, the stimulus plan coming up early part of the
year, the transportation program, regular bill that's coming
up this year, and the regular appropriation process, are
huge. And Kerrville and Kerr County, you know, ought to be
doing everything it possibly can. This is a community
that -- you know, we were talking to a couple of people on
the way in, and that we have -- that are from this part of
the state. They've just been amazed at the incredible growth
that has -- has occurred in this part of the state since we
were kids. And -- and we know that y'all are bursting at the
seams in many cases, and could utilize a lot of these funds.
So, you know, that's -- that's the long and the short of it.
You have some folders in front of you that have
round on our firm. We're small. There are only
eight people in our office. There are firms that --
government relations firms come in all shapes and sizes. It
12-15-08 jcc
11
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
goes from one person to maybe 200 people in an office, some
of the big ones that, you know, they do everything; they do
legal work and all kinds of -- of different aspects of what
firms like this offer. And -- but y'all see that -- if you
read the pamphlet, you'll see the background. We have these
people that have been -- either had executive branch
experience or Capitol Hill experience, working in the
trenches in Congress, and in accomplishing. And that's why I
became close to these people over the years, and because they
were reputable and -- and produced results. It also
includes, as I think I mentioned earlier, a list of all of
the other clients that we currently have.
This is also available on the web -- on the web
site -- on our web site, and every business -- all the
business we conduct is all public knowledge. You know,
retainers that we receive are on the web site. They're
publicly reportable. We have to report everything we --
every client, every dime that we get, and that has to be
reported publicly so that everybody knows. It's all there
for anyone to read it. So, that's kind of the long and the
short of it, Judge, and I'm more than happy to answer any
questions at all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's just throw it open here,
and --
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Judge, before we get started,
12-15-08 jcc
12
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I'll turn over my gavel to our Mayor Pro Tem, Scott Gross.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: For what?
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: To conduct the meeting. Todd
is not here yet. He may come in later.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: Have you called us to order?
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Yes. We're good to go.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: I'm happy.
JUDGE TINLEY: Everything's cool with you, huh?
COUNCILMAN GROSS: I'm easy.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question, Congressman. You
termed it "government relations" firm, but I would think
that's a lobbyist.
MR. BONILLA: They're interchangeable.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Just saying, like -- I
thought they were. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't
-- you weren't saying something that I didn't fully
understand. I think the other question I had, the list you
provided, are those all the Texas clients y'all have?
MR. BONILLA: No, that's A-to-Z, top to bottom.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all the names. I guess
the other question, I mean, the Commissioners Court went
through a -- Friday? Friday, we had a meeting, went through
kind of a list of types of projects. Did we -- do we have a
copy of that with us, or has the Congressman seen our list?
12-15-08 jcc
13
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, he has not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. We have a list, and I'll
', just summarize. We had transportation, being road
extensions, bridges, things like that. We had other
infrastructure, such as wastewater and drinking water
projects. We even had some off-channel reservoir type
projects. We had airport -- pretty much the entire 10-year
plan for the airport on our list.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Volunteer fire department.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Volunteer fire department. We
had a whole host of things. How do we go through a list, I
guess, if we try to hire your firm, and kind of decide what
needs to be on it and what doesn't need to be on it? Or how
does the process work?
MR. BONILLA: Well, if you chose to retain us here,
what we would do -- there's a young lady that a couple folks
here have already met in my office. Her name is Christine
Pellerin, and she is -- she used to work at my congressional
office years ago in the appropriations process, and knows how
to get in the weeds, and can take a project and go, "Well,
this one will go better in this bill; this might go better
over here." And so what we would do is do a very intense,
probably -- maybe more than a day; we'd want to come down
here and go over these -- all of these lists. And she would
get here, and her hair would be messed up, and she would just
12-15-08 jcc
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
14
ones we want to prioritize in each of the three major topics
that I just outlined, those transportation, stimulus, and
appropriations process.
So, that's how we would go to work. That's the
first thing we would do. Then we would take those, as we
have done for other clients, and we -- and we have to do --
we do the -- we get in the trenches on this, because House
offices and Senate offices, oftentimes they don't have the
ability to do it. And there are specific forms that have to
be filled out, and they're like filling out a college
application process or law school application, and you've got
to cross the T's and dot the I's and talk about history, and
make sure they're done right. And if they're not -- they're
not done right, the House office or Senate offices will just
throw them back at you, and -- you know, and say -- it's a
headache. It's like taking a final exam on every project.
So, that's the kind of thing that we would -- we would
baby-sit those things as they move through the system.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Congressman, do you see the
City and the County as one client or two clients?
MR. BONILLA: I honestly would see it however you
12-15-08 jcc
15
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
donor to say, "Hey, can you donate this money so that we can
do this?" And all above the table and by the book, and --
but, so you can fund it 50/50, County/City, and then you tell
us who's going to be the boss in terms of who we go through.
Do we go through the Judge's office? Do we go through the
Mayor's office? Do we go through Guy? Do we -- you know,
whatever y'all want to do. But we would probably need to
have one chief, versus two or three people telling us that,
"Well, we ought to prioritize this or that." Frankly, I'm
impressed that cities and counties don't always get along
this well. Over the years, I have seen some that -- I've
seen some that almost want to get physical with each other,
and I'm not kidding. There's a lot of -- a lot of --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The day's early here.
(Laughter.)
MR.	BONILLA:	So --	but, you	know, they've sat at
the same table	with me.	So -	- regular	occasion.
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: You made it clear the best
12-15-08 jcc
16
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
engineering already done.
MR. BONILLA: That's with the first stimulus bill,
yes, that are ready to go. And let me also make it clear
that TexDOT needs to be part of this on transportation
issues. They need to be part. They need to be on the team.
and we would raise a red flag on anything that was not TexDOT
approved, because that could become very controversial if
it's not something that they have done. They can -- 'cause
up on what Mack said, one of the areas that we have projects
that kind of have been done is airport, 'cause airport -- we
have to go through a process and have a -- basically a
10-year plan funding projects. So, what could happen is
those projects could be escalated and maybe additional
funding coming? Most of those funds are 90/10 running
through TexDOT Aviation. Is there a chance that -- that
greater than 90/10 funds could come through to get these
things done quicker? Because from our standpoint, like, if
there's a match, that puts a big hurdle for us to get over,
even if it's just 10 percent, some of these projects.
MR. BONILLA: On this stimulus plan -- and, again,
12-15-08 jcc
17
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
there's -- this is what the buzz is right now. And things
could change, but we do expect this to move forward, the
stimulus plan, early part of the year, is that in many cases,
they would be fully funded, is what we're hearing, to make it
easier. 'Cause there's an understanding that local
communities just don't have a lot of the matching funds that
they may have had five years ago with budgets that are being
cut back.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: I don't have a question, but I
do have a comment, and that is, I know the money's -- the
money's there. I know it's going to be spent. It's going to
be spent by somebody. And I know that if we spent it, we'd
be good stewards of it. Not necessarily that somebody else
wouldn't be, but I know that we would be, so I don't have any
problem with that. But if we were to make a -- come to an
agreement, I would feel very -- I feel sort of like you, when
you say you didn't want to use the word lobbyist, so --
didn't feel good on our tongues. Doesn't feel good on my
tongue either -- pardon me. Well, it just doesn't seem
right. You know, citizens ought to be able to approach their
government right up front. So, I'm thinking it's sort of
like those fundraisers that call you from Nebraska, want you
to help out the Texas law enforcement guys. They have no
relationship. If we were to do this, I would want us to be
very involved as -- as individual bodies. I wouldn't want to
12-15-08 jcc
18
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
just say, "Go do our dirty work."
COMMISSIONER LETZ: By saying it, you mean, like,
possibly -- well, just communicate, visit with our own
representatives, and stay involved in that manner?
COUNCILMAN GROSS: I think pack up the Judge and
the mayor and send them somewhere.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Permanently?
JUDGE TINLEY: You've been doing that for three
years, Scott, and the plan is to continue.
MR. BONILLA: It's busy work. And, again, it's all
public; all of these things that I'm talking about are. The
forms that we fill out, the visits that we have, are all
public knowledge. There's nothing done behind the scenes
or -- I mean, I might have conversations with -- with people
that are going to be -- because we're not required to report
every last comment that I made to a clerk on a committee
because I know them, or to a member of Congress who might be
on a committee to try to put a project that's on the bottom
of the list to the top of the list. But for the most part,
everything's out there for everyone to review.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: And no disrespect intended
whatsoever, --
MR. BONILLA: And none taken.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: -- but the general public has a
problem with the term "lobbyist."
12-15-08 jcc
19
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. BONILLA:	No question.	My	former	chief of
staff was a great guy.	Back in the	late	'90's,	he came on as
"Where are you going?" And he said, "I'm going to play golf
with a lobbyist." And they just froze in their tracks and
said, "You know lobbyists?" And so there's -- there's the
connotation that goes with the word. Everyone understands
that it's a -- it has gotten a bad rap. And, you know, there
Students used to come visit me when I was still in office,
and I was not, obviously, a lobbyist when I was in office,
but they would talk about that just like you're bringing up
right now. And I'd say, "Well, what do your parents do?
They said, "Well, they're farmers." I said, "Well, you guys
have a big lobbyist in Washington and Austin now." I said,
"What do your parents do?" "Well, they're pharmacists."
"Oh, man," I said, "y'all have lobbyists in Washington and
Austin, too. What do your parents do?" "They're school
teachers." Big time. "What do your parents do?" "They work
for U.S.A.A." "Well, you've got a big lobbying office for
Austin and Washington, too." And it -- the list goes on and
on. So, it's always like we -- we like ours, but we don't
like anyone else's. But I clearly understand the
connotation, and perception is a problem that we all have to
12-15-08 jcc
20
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: While we're in the political
realm, let me ask another question. Do you guys -- does
Normandy Group have the ability to work effectively with both
Republicans and Democrats?
MR. BONILLA: Yes.
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Is that an issue at all?
MR. BONILLA: No, it's not an issue. It might be
on a rare occasion, but our firm cannot exist as a long-term
government relations firm in Washington if you're just
working one side. So, we have -- we do have friends on both
sides, and as an aside from what we do that I've explained to
you already, we host fundraising events -- political events
for members on both sides, Senators and House members. So,
if you look at our list of ones we host, probably a little
more Republican, because we have that history. But, you
know, we've -- people like Ciro Rodriguez and Senator Ken
Salazar, and the new member from Arizona. I mean, the list
goes on and on. Lloyd Doggett in Austin is one that we do.
So --
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: What emphasis do you think
will be placed by the new administration on local
unemployment?
MR. BONILLA: On local --
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Unemployment, and handing out
12-15-08 jcc
21
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
funds like this.
MR. BONILLA: I don't -- cannot speculate on that
at this point. I would just be guessing.
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: One would assume the purpose
is to put people to work.
MR. BONILLA: Correct.
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: And if they're all employed
already, it would be hard to do.
MR. BONILLA: Well, one of the ideas behind, I
think, the stimulus plan that they're all talking about is to
get people back to work in some of these communities that
have been hit harder; frankly, a lot harder than the hill
country has been hit. And --
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: That's the point. I think
we're in a poor position relative to, say, Detroit. Or
Dearborn.
MR. BONILLA: Those are different worlds.
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Yeah.
MR. BONILLA: Let's feel blessed that we are where
we are.
JUDGE TINLEY: Guy, you had a comment?
I~ MR. OVERBY: Yes. And just for the record, Guy
Overby with the Kerr Economic Development Foundation. I just
appreciate, again, Council and Commissioners today to be
here, and just like to mention here just for the record that
12-15-08 jcc
22
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Henry, of course, when he was our former congressman here,
appropriations of agricultural committee at that time, and
Henry was very helpful in helping us get the feasibility
study off the ground for the U.S.D.A. facility, the
Knipling-Bush laboratory here in Kerrville, and also helped
when the groundwork for the design and engineering process
was put in too, and was very influential in that. I know, in
speaking and talking with Henry on the phone, and through our
record, I -- just to state again, that project is moving
forward and finding the construction funding, as we know,
even with the economic times that are -- are upon us right
now.
It would clearly be -- you know, just speaking on
behalf of the foundation, to have somebody who's up on the
hill that's trying to identify those construction funding
dollars out there and trying to help us move that process
along, he has been very helpful in that process where we have
come to that part. Also, Congressman Smith has been very
helpful; I appreciate that. And some of our other
conversations that we had with Henry when we visited in
Washington, D.C. this past October, and it's 2009, as we
start talking about future projects. And, Commissioner Letz,
12-15-08 jcc
23
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
you made a comment about all the comments that the --
identifying projects. One thing we talk about is finding
infrastructure dollars and those type of things to help with
downtown and our business districts, as those type of things
are important. And you had talked about some of those things
that might be able to help us with that, too. So, I'm just
saying that just for the -- you know, his comments and things
and helping us in that nature could be very beneficial to
Kerrville and Kerr County. I appreciate what you do.
MR. BONILLA: And we would be -- and Guy knows
'~ package, because the wheels are already turning on that.
And -- and even beyond what you all decide this week or
today, I would suggest trying to get those things together,
and at the very least, trying to package them and get them to
your Senate and Congressional office A.S.A.P.
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Is there a practicable
limitation? If -- say we came up with 15 super projects. Is
there a practicable limitation that we might expect to see?
Is there a dollar limit or a project limit?
MR. BONILLA: I don't -- you're not going to get
all 15. You might get two or three of them right off the
bat. You might -- it would all depend on how hard the
12-15-08 jcc
24
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Senators and your House member would want to push them. And,
you know, they're looking at the whole state. The member of
Congress is looking at however many counties he has, so
that's first and foremost. We have to -- we would work to
get them committed in writing to pushing these 15 projects.
We would probably want to keep to it, realistically, to about
half a dozen, because communities that do that --
historically, it's just easier to manage when a community
comes in and says, "Look, we'd love to have all these, but
let me just tell you what we really need at the top of the
list."
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Prioritize.
MR. BONILLA: Right, prioritized list.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You also have to be realistic
about what funding is available --
MR. BONILLA: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for various projects. No
point in asking for things that you feel like you're not
going to have a chance to -- to get funded.
MR. BONILLA: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Those are -- you know, we all
have a wish list of what we'd like to have and what would be
good for the community to probably identify seven, eight
million dollars worth of things we'd like to have, but
realistically, we have to lower our sights a little and I
12-15-08 jcc
25
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
believe prioritize if we decide to do this.
MR. BONILLA: What I forgot to bring with me this
morning, there are a couple of pages that I gave to the Judge
and to Guy and the mayor about -- on a comparable client that
we have had for a year or two now, and how much we have been
able to help them with, and it was significant. And I don't
want to quote the figure, but you should have it in writing
as part of the record. And there are no guarantees.
MR. OVERBY: That's right.
MR. BONILLA: I want to make that clear. But I
also make it clear that if it wasn't for the success that we
have had overall, and the firms comparable to ours have had,
we wouldn't continue to have -- I'm speaking as a culture
now -- wouldn't be continuing to have people on retainer like
I we have.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Congressman, I think my
recollection --
MR. BONILLA: Not going to just throw money out the
window, that's for sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The fee that I think you
presented originally, I think, was 10,000 a month, $120,000 a
year. Is that a -- a standard fee, like, for all your -- the
clients y'all have, or is it -- do you kind of look at size?
You know, how do you determine that?
MR. BONILLA: It's subjective. Some of our clients
12-15-08 jcc
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
pay a lot more, and some of them pay a little bit less, but
we don't do as much for them. And all clients are different.
Some of them -- some of them don't want -- aren't about
federal funding at all. In some cases, they -- they might
!, want me to help them with a member of Congress that I know.
~!~ You know, "Can you -- can I get an appointment with this
person from Chicago that you might know?" Or, "Can you come
to this dinner with the C.E.O. and attend these events?" So
that's a different situation than what we're talking about
here, so the fees vary quite a bit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess as a follow-up to that,
we talked so far about a procedure for one year. My --
intuitively, it would seem to me that if we're going to make
this kind of a commitment, we almost need to commit for more
than a year, because Washington doesn't move that quickly a
lot of times. How long of a period to really get a return?
What do we need to --
MR. BONILLA: Well, we would hope that it would be
in one year, but -- but you are actually wise to suggest
that, because some people who have been doing this for some
time now do it that way, because they understand it's a
long-term thing. It's not -- you know, if you don't see
anything in your hand in 90 days, that doesn't mean you're
~~ not going to be successful at this on the long-term. So,
that is what people who have had longer relationships and
12-15-08 jcc
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
27
experience with government relations firms generally do that.
They do longer term -- longer contracts.
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Do you have any
can't -- those are difficult, because you have to absolutely
-- we cannot receive -- let's say we helped you get funding
for a road project or airport project. We cannot be paid
from those funds legally, so those do get sticky, and we have
to -- you have to make sure you jump through all the right
hoops. So, if anybody comes along later and says, "Well,
you're getting federal funding; it's going right back to a
lobbying firm," I mean, that's something we like to stay away
from if possible.
JUDGE TINLEY: I know you have mentioned,
Congressman, in our discussions, that, you know, obviously,
you look at the risks, you look at the rewards, and that's
what you encourage, in fact. And if you're not earning your
keep, you ought not stay on board. I may have mentioned to
some of the members of the Court that I believe you've
indicated to us that that's one of the things you tell
prospective clients, and to-date, at least as of our last
conversation,	you said that	you've signed -	- signed a lot up,
but you haven'	t been fired	on any, which is	-- which is good
news. Now, I	-- I agendaed	this item as a	joint agreement
12-15-08 jcc
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
28
between both Kerr County and the City of Kerrville. My
feeling is, what's good for the City's good for the County
and vice-versa, so I saw it as another way to obtain
efficiency for both of us in -- in bringing it forward this
way. There's another individual here that I've done a lot of
work with on some of the things that I've been involved that
works with subjects that are near and dear to my heart, and
that's juvenile justice and the youth. Dr. Bill Blackburn,
who has had a lot of involvement, said that he'd like to make
a few comments here this morning. I'd like to give him an
that as you consider federal funding and other funding, to
keep in mind that -- the needs of youth here, which I know
you are. But I see some opportunities, some things from the
Justice Department, some from Health and Human Services,
that, if accessed, could potentially make a real difference
with youth here. And all of you know, we've got lots of good
youth here, but we've got some real issues that need to be
faced, too. And some of that has to do with prevention from
getting -- some of those kids getting into the juvenile
justice system. And I see both City and County potentially
playing a real role in that, along with the churches, the
nonprofits, and the schools.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Dr. Bill. Any more
12-15-08 jcc
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
29
questions? Comments?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: You had mentioned
prioritizing from the standpoint of -- transportation was
number one. What is the next level, or what are the
priorities most likely to get funded in this immediate term?
MR. BONILLA: Well, that's the general, overall
label, transportation. Because there's just a feeling that
those -- those are the projects that will put more people
back to work quickly. Not just serve the greater public
good, but put more people back to work. So, they're really
trying to keep it to that level, although as things have
always progressed in Washington over the years, it will
usually spread out and include more as the first of the year
moves on.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, putting people to work
from the transportation standpoint is construction.
MR. BONILLA: Mm-hmm.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, any capital project
would fall into that category because of construction, so why
limit it just to transportation if it, in effect, will do the
same thing?
MR. BONILLA: Well, I'm just the messenger.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The transportation -- it's
an interesting point to talk about, and particularly going
12-15-08 jcc
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
30
back to your reference about involving TexDOT in anything
that you plan to do. Seems to me that that process gets
convoluted, although I understand the importance of the --
the necessity to have TexDOT involved. But that alone slows
it down considerably, unless you get them involved and they
go through their vetting process and prioritizing process and
planning process, and whatever processes they go through. By
that time, probably the dollars are going in another
direction. So, how do we -- how do we make that come
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How do we work with you to
make TexDOT, on a transportation project that has merit -- at
least we think has merit, how do we pull all that together so
that -- so that the net result is positive without missing
the boat?
MR. BONILLA: You probably would need to work with
your state Representative or Senator to facilitate that
through TexDOT to make sure that -- as long as they're not in
conflict with you, that's the main thing. As long as they
don't come out later and say, you know, "We didn't need that,
and here's another project one mile up that would have
relieved a lot of congestion, and we really wish that that
would have been funded first." And so that's what you want
12-15-08 jcc
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
31
to avoid.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall a conversation I
had once with TexDOT when the topic of earmarks came up.
MR. BONILLA: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You may have been our
Congressman at that time; I've forgotten, Henry. The topic
of earmarks and obtaining funds through that process for a
specific project, right? And TexDOT indicated -- not all
that for public consumption, but let everybody -- all the
players know that that wasn't a process that they were really
interested in, notwithstanding the relative merits of the
process.
MR. BONILLA: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or of the project. They
didn't like it because it was going to detract funds from
other sources that --
MR. BONILLA: That they want to do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So --
MR. BONILLA: That is an issue. That is an issue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just so everybody's aware.
MR. BONILLA: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's no doubt we do have
transportation issues, infrastructure issues that need to be
resolved. And I work with TexDOT all the time. In fact,
we're doing bridge projects right now in the Hunt area, and
12-15-08 jcc
32
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
list; basically, engineering and everything is done, and just
waiting for funds, because of the problems TexDOT's had over
the last year or so, and some of that money has been spent
elsewhere, and some of it's kind of been put on hold, I
believe. But we do have projects that -- that are in the
planning process, and some of them already have engineering
done.
MR. BONILLA: Well, those are prime. That's
exactly what they're looking for. Now, those bridge
projects, as you mentioned a minute ago, are those -- did you
say those were TexDOT-approved? Or others?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're off-system bridges,
but TexDOT does all the engineering and gets the funding from
the feds, passes through to the state to pay for those. And
we have done several in the past, but normally that takes
years and years to get funding for those. We have several
very dangerous one-lane bridges that need to be replaced and
widened.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have right now --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's seven.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Seven? Seven that have been
12-15-08 jcc
33
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
all tied together under one -- I mean, under a package deal
that Commissioner Oehler was able to work out with somebody
in the western part of the county. I know the engineer on
one of those is our local district manager. There's a TexDOT
meeting, I believe, tomorrow to go over final plans, and that
one's being kicked out of the engineering. The rest of them
are in engineering right now. So, I mean, there -- they've
been approved. It's just whether TexDOT got a bucket of
money. I'm not so sure. I don't know how you get it from
TexDOT to these projects as opposed to other projects that
also are being looked at at TexDOT. I guess Commissioner
Williams is concerned -- we don't want to spend our money to
get dollars to TexDOT, and TexDOT is spending them for
other things.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I'm sure they have
another public relations firm on their staff.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: Congressman, if time wasn't an
issue and staffing wasn't an issue, what can your firm do
that our elected officials can't do?
MR. BONILLA: If --
COUNCILMAN GROSS: If it wasn't a matter of them
not having enough staff, what can you do -- your firm do that
our elected officials cannot do?
12-15-08 jcc
34
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. BONILLA: I guess just to kind of summarize
tape and paperwork and -- and understanding of -- for
example, I don't know that -- with all due respect, that your
local elected officials would really know every project that
you're trying to get funded, exactly which road it ought to
take through the Congress, whether it's through the
Agriculture bill or the Public Works bill or the
Transportation bill or the Health and Human Services bill.
a couple of years before I even started to understand how --
which highway to take when you're setting off to get
something done, and so, you know, just being able to navigate
through the system like that. And the world has also
changed, even in the last couple of years, in terms of how
you -- you go about this. In the old days, somebody would
hand me -- Lamar Smith or some -- 'cause I was known as,
quote, an appropriator. Someone would hand me something with
a handwritten note on it and say, "Henry, can you take a look
at this and see if you can put this in this bill?" And I
said sure. I put it in my pocket; we'd go back and figure
out if we could put it in.
Now the whole process, and probably fairly so, has
become much more paper-intensive and detailed and public in
terms of, if you want something done, it's got to go through
12-15-08 jcc
35
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
all kinds of T's crossed and I's dotted and history, and, you
know, has this ever been funded before? Has it gone through
any other bill before? Is your county -- is anybody going to
object to it in your government, whether it's county or city?
years ago. So -- and then also, being able to prioritize all
these projects versus a House office or Senate office that is
juggling, you know, thousands of projects all of the time, to
try to get them to go from, you know, the middle of the pile
or the bottom of the pile to the top of the pile. I mean, I
just, the other day, was able to talk to a key person that's
finalizing last year's appropriations bills that are going to
be done probably in the next month, and I said, you know,
this item that's right here -- 'cause I know the guy. I
worked with him for many years on appropriations. I said,
"Whatever you can do to boost that line, and here's the
history on it; it's all legit." You know, moving something
like that forward, in my view, is -- is a huge added value.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: Thank you.
MR.	BONILLA:	But	it's complicated.	It'	s	not	a --
I can't write	it down.	And	I couldn't, even	when	I	was	in
office, write down, how do you get from A to Z? It's a
culture that you learn after a while, that I've been
fortunate enough to have, I suppose, as close as you can to
12-15-08 jcc
36
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- I guess, if you can
explain the process, a little bit of the legislation and
through the appropriations. You know, we identify a need,
say, at the airport, you know, doing something out there.
Could use a new water line right now, I think. Anyway, s~
into the Transportation bill, and which I presume then it
goes kind of through transportation -- Department of
Transportation and back to TexDOT and back to Kerrville. I
mean, how does it track? I mean, how do you -- do you have
to work with this -- getting it -- seems to me getting it
into the bill is only the first step, unless it's a line item
that says it's for Kerrville airport water project.
MR. BONILLA: I was surprised, even people that
didn't understand this. And oftentimes there can be what
they call report language in a bill, and it'll say water
project or reconstruction of a dam or something, and it'll
have an amount there. That's only a suggestion. The
question always was, do you have -- and some communities
would think, "Oh, good, it's mentioned; it's in the bill."
No, it's not in the bill. It's got to be what they call bill
language, or -- or legislative language where it's mandated.
And so, in essence, when it goes through the Transportation
12-15-08 jcc
37
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Department or the Agriculture Department, you cannot --
that's -- that is written in the law, and you can't hold onto
it and you can't change it. So, there is a -- there is a
huge difference as to how those projects move through the
system, and it took me a while to learn that as well. It
sounds so simple as I'm explaining it, but you'd be surprised
how many -- even some members of the Congress don't still
don't understand that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, these projects can be
almost a line item in the bill, so that protects it from
going to some other community.
MR. BONILLA: Correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the number that's built
into a specific project, we'll say $10 million, is that
actual, given in today's -- in the current economy? Or is
that an estimate of cost?
MR. BONILLA: It's an actual number. Although some
agencies -- it's a little sticky. There are some agencies,
depending on which one it is, where they'll take an
administrative 1 or 2 percent off the top. That doesn't
always happen. It depends on which agency it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Congressman, another thing, and I
think it's been briefly mentioned here this morning, that
what some of us here at the County or the City level may
perceive as a -- as a public works project may, in fact, be a
12-15-08 jcc
38
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
criminal justice type matter, or better fit there, or have
more prospect of getting funded in that manner, or
vice-versa. Is that not, in and of itself, kind of a maze,
trying to figure out, as you mentioned, which highway to try
and send something down?
MR. BONILLA: That's a justice -- did you say a
justice --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that was just an example.
', What might be perceived as -- we might think of as a public
works project would -- would probably have a better
opportunity of getting funded if it were taken down a
I
criminal justice highway, for example.
MR. BONILLA: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Or vice-versa, or any combination.
MR. BONILLA: We have, for example, a school now,
one of our universities who we're talking to them about these
transportation projects, and they -- and they're talking
about providing buses for students in some areas, and we're
telling them no, that's not going to qualify. And although
having buses for students is transportation, that's not what
this situation would call for, so that's why we come in and
help make sure -- you don't want to put that whole thing
together and take it to your Senator, your House member, and
they go, "Can't do it that way." You know, you got to figure
out how to -- and sometimes they can't even tell you how to
12-15-08 jcc
39
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
do it the right way, but we can tell you how -- okay, no, no,
no, come back. Pull back, figure out, is there a public
governmental projects. But that's the kind of thing we have
to help walk you through it. And, again, if -- if we're
fortunate to work with you guys, we -- we would come down
here and, you know, one thing we'd want to do is bring
Christine, who y'all have met, and just get in the weeds, and
be a pretty intense day or two that we would spend just
trying to prioritize everything that we need to work on.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that part of your retainer
fee, or is that an additional cost?
MR. BONILLA: Well, that was -- our proposal says
we -- if there is any additional cost like that, that would
be -- we'd ask to be reimbursed. Although we -- you know, we
we're not -- we don't do first class or any of that stuff.
And another thing is that you always -- I'm the guy that --
anybody that -- that I've retained personally, I'm the guy
that you get on the phone. And I think Guy's known, even in
dealings thus far, that, you know, we're a small office, like
I said, and if you need to get me on the phone, unless I'm
12-15-08 jcc
40
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
traveling with my family or something, you know, I'm going to
call you back within an hour or a day or so at the very most
if I'm traveling. And I'm saying I do travel, so that's
usually the only delay.
JUDGE TINLEY: We had a couple of members of the
audience that had some comments, maybe some questions. Is
there anybody else here that has any question or comment
they'd like to mention? Mr. Heinz Roesch with the Hill
Country Home Builders.
MR. ROESCH: Mr. Bonilla, I haven't been privy to
see your client list, but I assume you have among your
clients similar -- other clients like City of Kerrville or
Kerr County. How do you resolve within your firm, or within
yourself, you know, the conflicts of interest that you have
among the clients that you serve?
MR. BONILLA: Well, first of all, they're all
available on our web site as well. There's usually not a
conflict, because, like, let's say we have a comparable
community -- Eagle County, Colorado -- that is a comparable
population and so forth. Well, the projects that go to
Colorado are not going come out of the same allotment --
allocation that Texas gets. So, there's -- there is not a
conflict at all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anyone else?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is there some kind of
12-15-08 jcc
41
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
allotment number that is kind of placed for each state to
have access to?
MR. BONILLA: Not yet. Not yet. That kind of
varies every year. One of the biggest issues will be -- be
the level of commitment that the two Senators and your House
member will have. And -- I mean, and they're all good.
So -- you know, but we would be in the office -- I mean, some
of them used to work for me that are working in the
offices -- some of those offices, and we know them well, so
we'd be in there, you know, pushing these things along a
little harder than perhaps your -- your neighboring community
might be getting.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two questions, one of them kind
of a follow-up on Heinz's.
MR. BONILLA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If we were to authorize going
forward with an agreement with your firm, would you then not
take any other -- certainly any city/county clients in our
area? Would that -- pretty much, we'd be the one?
MR. BONILLA: I can tell you honestly, there is no
pending business that we have with anyone else at this time,
and we would weigh that. You know, we don't want to -- first
of all, we want you to be pleased as clients.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. BONILLA: Our goal is to keep y'all long-term,
12-15-08 jcc
42
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
and not to -- to somehow --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get a yes or no out of him.
MR. BONILLA: Not the priority.
I
~i COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes or no.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I heard maybe.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, there's maybes all
I over.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I guess a little bit
more of a question --
MR. BONILLA: We have no pending --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No pending --
MR. BONILLA: -- business right now.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In looking through your -- I
guess the other members of the firm, I see there's
individuals that had worked with Senator Leahy, also
Representative Waters -- Maxine Waters. Little bit opposite
side of the spectrum than you politically. How does your
firm work internally between the intense party partisanship
that seems to go on in Washington? Your firm has
representatives on both sides. How do y'all work together?
MR. BONILLA: Well, we're a business, so we -- we
don't have any issues right now that are outstanding with --
with -- or against either party. Maybe -- you point out that
we have a couple of the folks there that come from offices
that I probably didn't have, when I was in office, a whole
12-15-08 jcc
43
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
lot in common with, but we -- we pull together as a team.
And we meet every week, on Monday morning, and -- and figure
out kind of where -- where we are, either politically or with
policy issues, with whatever client business we have that
week. And -- and if I need help with an office on the other
side of the political aisle, I mean, we have people who can
reach into those offices. If some of them will call and ask
me, "Hey, can you talk to, you know, this member, or this
Republican from Pennsylvania?" Or from Florida, or from
Arizona, or from California, that I happen to have gotten to
know over the years. Sure. So, we -- we work together.
We're a real family; we're a real team atmosphere. I've been
there now for -- June will be two years, and just speaking
not just professionally, but personally, I couldn't be more
pleased with the team spirit that we have.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? Comments?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, Judge, do you have a
-- I guess to you and Scott, what's the timeline that you see
for the City? I probably know that one closer, but -- for
the County, but with the City, I mean, have y'all discussed
this at all? Are you -- are y'all going to put this on the
agenda?
COUNCILMAN GROSS: No, we haven't.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there's no --
COUNCILMAN GROSS: No.
12-15-08 jcc
44
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: We could discuss it today if you
I want .
JUDGE TINLEY: My feeling was, when I agendaed it,
that if -- because of the new Congress, as I indicated,
cranking up next month, and things already being put into
play, if we're going to do this, I think it would be to our
best interest to do it promptly. That's -- that's my
thinking.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does the word
"promptly" mean to you?
JUDGE TINLEY: Before dark.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking to a lawyer
I here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Before dark today.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before dark today?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's prompt.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty prompt.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this an action item today,
or is this a workshop?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, it's agendaed as an action item.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I won't vote on it
today; I can tell you that right now.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to hear from the City
12-15-08 jcc
45
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
I8
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
a little bit, because I've kind of -- obviously, we talk --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: We obviously need to get
together as a group and determine where we're going to go
with it. And this has not been discussed, nor, to my
knowledge, has it been put on an agenda, and certainly I'm
not opposed to doing that. But I think to make a decision
today is a little premature.
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: I actually agree. You guys
are ahead of us. We need to sit down and prioritize our list
of projects and see what we might have that could feasibly be
done through the program that is -- is foreseeably subject to
being successful, to make an internal decision.
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: I think the Congressman's
been very helpful. In listening to him, what he said is
projects that are going to get funded here, at least in the
near term, are going to be transportation projects that have
engineering and that are TexDOT-approved. That's the list.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah. We don't have any of
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Well, but the County -- the
County may. But that's the list. So, if we want other
things, we're taking a gamble that, yeah, maybe something
will happen. But he's giving us -- I'll call it the A list,
where we should go away and try to come up with something
that matches the A list. If we've got something, great. If
12-15-08 jcc
46
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
we don't, that should be our decision criteria.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we also have to
discuss how the client relationship shapes up, whether
it's -- in terms of City, County, KEDF. Do we work through
Guy? Do we work through the Judge? Do we work through the
mayor? What type -- what type -- how does the client shake
out for these people's purposes?
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Sure. And I think the first
consideration is what's -- what are the projects on the list,
if any? Because that'll decide what the -- what the role
should be.
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: And, Mack, I may not have
heard everything. Is it strictly limited to transportation?
Primarily for --
MR. BONILLA: On this first route. Again -- and,
you know, I don't believe in making hasty decisions either.
I understand that. And -- but the reason -- only reason I
bring this -- the three things I brought up were the stimulus
program on transportation, which is moving pretty quickly,
and then -- but long-term, there's the appropriations
process, and long-term there's that transportation -- the
regular transportation bill that's going to come up later in
the year. So, again, I'm hoping that if -- if y'all decide
to do this, that it's not a -- you know, this is not a rabbit
shooting out of the box, and that's all it's about. It's a
12-15-08 jcc
47
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
long-term deal. But this -- this opportunity is coming up
pretty quick.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But to follow up on that -- and
I agree with the Judge; we need to do it quickly, but reality
is, where we are in the month of December, nothing's going to
be done in Congress, really, between now and the first of the
year. Plus you're going to be gone for a good part of the
next two weeks. So, really, our decision isn't going to be
too far delayed if we're -- you know, by the -- our -- I
think we all meet next week. City Council meets next week?
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think they have a meeting.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: We have a special meeting coming
~ up .
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: We do have a special meeting.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: 18th?
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Trying to be scheduled for
Thursday -- finally scheduled.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's an opportunity there.
Do y'a11 meet again this year as a Council?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. Okay. But either way, I
think by early January, the --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: This could be put on the
agenda for Thursday, I presume.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There could be some -- there's
12-15-08 jcc
48
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
time for Council and Commissioners Court to meet individually
and/or together between now and early January, and I don't
know when the session -- I mean, what's your time -- if that
is realistic from a timing standpoint, but it seems to me
there's not a whole lot to be done in Washington in the next
10 days.
MR. BONILLA: Not between now and the end of this
month, but very shortly after the first of the year, things
are going to get cranked up pretty quickly.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we'd need to -- I mean,
that's kind of our --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: He's got to get the list --
if we go forward with it, whether it be as a group, jointly,
or individually, County, City, whatever, he's got to get --
there's a lot of background work he can be doing between now
and then.
MR. BONILLA: Right.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: To get prepared for when they
get cranked up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: True.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: So, Bruce, how do you feel about
this? Do you want to put it on the next meeting -- special
meeting agenda?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: I think so.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: Chuck?
12-15-08 jcc
49
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: Sure, I agree.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: Mack?
COUNCILMAN HAMILTON: Yeah, that's fine.
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: And then -- well, I guess we
take it step by step, but we need to have another joint,
probably, work session with you guys.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could. I think -- I mean,
the list that we came up with we can certainly get to y'all
today, because, I mean, we met Friday and kind of came up
with a list, and a lot of those are city projects. I mean,
they're -- or that are in the city limits, anyway. A lot of
them are not.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I don't think we prioritized
them as such, but merely made up a grand wish list, is really
what we did.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: We've got that in a general
CIP thing, but it's not transportation.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, some things may fit
transportation that don't, on their face, indicate they're
transportation, and vice-versa. Sometimes --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah, I hear you. That's
what you'd call it. A hat's not a hat until you call it a
hat.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe this to be a good
12-15-08 jcc
50
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
thing and a good opportunity. At the same time, it's a
two-edged sword for all of us who are elected officials,
will probably all get thrown out of office.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, for the City Council's
input, a number of things -- a lot of things -- like, I keep
on bringing back the airport, 'cause there is an identified
project the Airport Board has come up with, and TexDOT has
signed off, even though it may not be engineered. Even if we
get some of that engineering funding to do right now, it
would be helpful. But a lot of our other projects are things
that the City and the County feel need to be done, but we
really -- we don't know when we'd ever have the money to do
them. An example is draining and dredging Flat Rock Lake.
That's a county and possibly U.G.R.A. problem, but certainly
has a big impact to the city. I don't know if that's
transportation, unless we turn it into a canal, but, you
know, it's something that truly needs to be done. That lake
has never been drained, never been cleaned out, but it's a
benefit to all -- everyone in this area, especially the city,
I think. So, those are kind of the things that we put on our
list that are -- we'd like to see them done, but we really
don't know how we'd ever fund it.
12-15-08 jcc
51
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have some projects -- we'd
like to connect highways, one being 27 and 1340 so there's
another way in and out of Hunt, to alleviate some of the
traffic problems there. Another one is to connect, say,
Indian Creek with Freedom Trail over to Upper Turtle Creek
Road. People that live out there have to drive 35 miles when
they're only 5 miles from town. Things like that. And the
dredging of the lakes and the cleaning and the dam repairs,
I and -- and --
MR. BONILLA: Those are the kind of things that can
fall under the environmental improvement projects that are
going to be increasing in number in the next year. Question.
Have y'all accessed the Airport Improvement project grants
over the years?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Big help. I mean, we have a
lot of -- I mean, we've been very fortunate; we've had a lot
of funding for the airport through TexDOT, federal
pass-through funds.
MR. BONILLA: I probably worked on that with y'all
when I was in office.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've -- but we have more
projects, and we have a -- a huge one related to taxiway
relocation, finishing up that, which we're in the process of
12-15-08 jcc
52
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
doing it right -- the first phase of right now. And I don't
know -- what's the second phase, 10 million?
COUNCILMAN GROSS: Eight.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10 million.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eight million, I think.
COUNCILMAN COLEMAN: The numbers are so big.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, that's the kind of thing
that -- I keep on saying airport. That's one that, if we can
get that done with 100 percent funding, that's huge, to the
City and the County, but that's just one of many that we have
on the list.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge? I'm sorry, Jon.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick question for Guy. What's
the chance of your organization having some funding to put
into the pot?
MR. OVERBY: Funding? No. No, we're -- we're in
the -- we're having some conversations right now about, you
know, some of that, how '09 and '10 will look down in the
future for us, but --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Turned a little red on that
one.
MR. OVERBY: We wouldn't have that. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just thought I'd ask.
MR. OVERBY: -- we can help in other ways.
12-15-08 jcc
53
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I guess I'd like to
see us put it on our agenda for Monday as an action item, and
in the meantime, ask -- have some discussions and stuff as to
how is it to take shape, and with whom do we work? I know
Guy's got his plate full. And Guy is a one-man band over
there, and how he gets done what he does, by himself, is
extraordinary, and I don't understand it. But if he were to
be our point man and be shepherding through City and County
projects, that's going to exponentially increase the volume
of work that he's going to have to say grace over. And so I
think we need to talk about these things as to who becomes
our point man? If you don't have anything to do the rest of
the day, you can do that, right?
COUNCILMAN GROSS: Bi11, if I could make a comment,
I think it's really important that if we get involved with
this, that our mayor and our County Judge are involved with
it intimately.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, absolutely.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: And that we see -- that they
personally see our elected representatives -- representatives
several times each year, not just a hit and a miss.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with you.
I agree with you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Congressman, is it -- you
mentioned earlier you'd like one person. Can two --
12-15-08 jcc
54
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. BONILLA: Oh, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The mayor and the judge?
MR. BONILLA: We're all reasonable. I mean, we
just -- the point is that we probably can't have --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eight.
MR. BONILLA: Yeah. It can't be done by committee.
Otherwise -- especially if some of the committee doesn't
agree with the other half of the committee. We'd just be
spinning around.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it seems that the mayor
and the judge would be the two people, because they are kind
of the -- at the top of the heap on both entities. That way
~', you don't have a discrepancy. You know, you do not have one
trying to get all the money and the other one not getting
anything. You know, at least you work together -- I believe
you'd work together. Some of these things would be outside
the city limits; some will be within the city limits. That's
just the way --
JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever's good for one is good for
the other, and vice-versa.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's all going to be good for
the whole community. It's just the funding of this -- and
with the downturn in the market and in our economy, it's hard
to do. We don't know what we're facing in the next year, and
12-15-08 jcc
55
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
we don't know what our budget's going to look like, or our
values or anything else at this point. And it's -- this
coming in the middle of the budget year makes it even harder.
But it's not that I disagree with what you're trying to do
and what I think you will do, but funding for this is -- is
really -- I hope the noose doesn't tighten around my neck.
MR. BONILLA: Well, again, I would just say that
there are comparable communities, populations all around the
country, that would not be doing it if they didn't feel it
was a -- long-term, the rate of return is more than -- than
what they've invested in it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's what it has to be.
I mean, there's not an alternative to that. We must acquire
funding to offset those costs.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: Judge, I think this horse is
I dead.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've kicked it. I can't tell
if it's still moving. Can you?
COUNCILMAN GROSS: I don't see any signs of life.
JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Anything else we want to do
here before we fold this up? Commissioners Court will be
adjourned.
COUNCILMAN GROSS: And City Council will be
adjourned, and the only gavel I have is a pie server.
(Joint meeting was adjourned at 10:24 a.m.)
12-15-08 jcc
56
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
STATE OF TEXAS ~
COUNTY OF KERR ~
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 16th day of December,
2008.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
Kath B~~a 1k De ut Count Clerk
Y ~ p Y Y
Certified Shorthand Reporter
12-15-08 jcc