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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Special Session
Tuesday, June 3, 2008
1:30 p.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
Fill Vacancy in Court Compliance Department
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
C)o
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On Tuesday, June 3, 2008, at 1:30 p.m., a special
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in
the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this
special meeting of the -- special meeting of the Kerr County
Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this time and
date, Tuesday, June 3, 2008, at 1:30 p.m. It is that time
now. One item on the agenda, to consider, discuss, and take
appropriate action to fill a vacancy in the Court Compliance
Department. Let me first inquire if there's any visitors
that wish to have anything to tell us that's not a listed
agenda item, inasmuch as it's on the agenda. Is there any
member of the public that wishes to be heard on any matter
not a listed agenda item?
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, now we'll go forward. The
first item, consider, discuss, take appropriate action to
fill a vacancy in the Court Compliance Department.
Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you. We'd
like to welcome the Sheriff to this meeting.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: (via teleconferencing) Hello,
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Buster.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let's hold it down over there.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'll try.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See? He's satellite, and
he's still trying to take over.
I~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he's eavesdropping.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: By the Court's orders or
request, we went out and advertised in-house for how many
days?
MS. HYDE: We did it Thursday, Friday, Saturday,
Sunday, and Monday.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five days, and we only had
one -- I believe one --
MS. HYDE: Internal.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- applicant that was
internal. Several that were outside had heard about it and
applied -- two, I guess. I've got one e-mail from a lady.
But I think we've complied with what the Court wished to do,
and I want to offer a -- I want to offer a court order, and
then go from there. And so I move that we appoint Terry Lyle
as the director of the Collections Department -- or what's
the name of it?
MS. HYDE: It says Court Collections Officer.
JUDGE TINLEY: Compliance.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Court Compliance Officer,
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and offer her the -- the plan of the 16-1 for 90 days, and at
the end of 90 days, have a review and just go from there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion on that motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there an intent,
Commissioner, to leave this at a Level 16, or a possible --
or is that part of the evaluation after 90 days?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no, I would think that
this person would go to another level, and I think we'll be
in -- or we'll be probably done with the budget, I would
think, in 90 days. Maybe, maybe not. But if -- if all the
numbers remain the same, the salaries would remain the same,
I would think that this person would go -- at the end of 90
days, if she passes muster, would go to the salary that's
presently in there now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which is?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't answer that. And
neither can she.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But between -- in that 90-day
period, though, Ms. Hyde can make sure that that job
description -- it's a good time to make an adjustment if we
need to between that job description and what's going on.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is true.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Make sure we fall in line.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's true. And she came
can't do the job?" And my answer was, "Can't do the job?
See 'ya." See, she's employed, and has been employed, I
think, seven years in the Clerk's office now, and she'll
leave there and they will, I assume, fill that slot, and the
lady will be without a job. That's the way life is, I guess.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kind of the way it works.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kind of the way it works.
so I just went and talked to her, "Are you sure you want to
do this?" And she said yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on
MS. HYDE: Regarding the job description, since the
last time we all talked, I found out that there's some
reports and things that we're supposed to be doing, so I just
want to make sure, before I step into it, to make sure that
I'm doing the right job descriptions. I believe that there's
some reporting that is pretty detailed and pretty
detail-oriented that, right now, John Trolinger has been
doing and helping with, using the system. So, I'm not saying
she can't be trained on it, but I just want to make everyone
aware that -- you know, I don't want anyone to think that I'm
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jumping out there, you know, in no-man's land, if that's what
you truly want me to do, to make sure that we're setting it
up the way that you guys want it set up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it needs to be -- I
don't -- I wasn't aware that John was doing it. I don't want
John doing it. I mean, that's not his job, in my mind, doing
reports for other departments.
MR. TROLINGER: My only input is that this position
requires someone that can manipulate, I'll say -- but can
look at the -- look at the numbers, analyze it, and give
y'all a report of the courts in the county and the district,
i to tell you the bottom line, and assembled in a simple and
understandable way. And it's very complex. Everything that
goes into making up this compliance report is very complex,
and it requires just about the level of a statistician. So,
I just wanted to make you aware that it is --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Now that we've
heard what your requirements are of this job, is it your
requirement to see that that person has that knowledge?
MR. TROLINGER: Not at all. I've been asked --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. TROLINGER: I've been demanded to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whose job -- let me finish.
Whose job is it to see that that person is trained to
understand all that? Somebody answer the question.
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MS. DECKER: Commissioners Court employees.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The person who's vacating
the job will look over that a little bit, wouldn't he?
MS. HYDE: Typically, the transitional -- if you're
doing a transition employee --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't have a computer
training person in the county?
MS. HYDE: Not at this time, no.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, John.
MS. HYDE: John and Drew would be the only ones.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct.
MS. HYDE: Like I prefaced, you know, that's not
saying that that person cannot do the job. We're going to
have to try to find out. 'Cause what I understand now is
that there's an OCA report that needs to be done and given to
y'all once a month, and I don't know -- you know, I kind of
got that one from a blindside. So, I don't know if I'll find
anything else out, but we'll have to work closely.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we're being
blindsided as well. And I agree with you, if we're supposed
to have that report, get the damn report in here.
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if that person doesn't
know how to run the report, somebody needs to teach that
person how to run the report and get it done. You know, I
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don't want to hear a bunch of whining about this. This is
not that big of a deal. Teach the person how to do the
report and what the report consists of, and get the report in
here.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it's very important.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's difficult about that?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's going to be very
important, 'cause this is something we have not received, and
I just found -- I found this out kind of through this
process. So, we really don't know at this point -- of
course, we're talking about hiring a person, and maybe we
need to put it on the next agenda to discuss more about this
process.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, we're going to vote on
this issue today.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand that, but I'm
talking about -- I'm not talking about putting the
appointment off.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm talking about, you know,
what we need to have that employee do for us that's required.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's the job
description issue that we're talking about.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, okay. But I do think
it's something for the next agenda, as far as we need to make
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ourselves a little more educated about that process we're
asking this person to do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or I don't know. I mean, if
we're giving the person 90 days to learn, I think we have --
you know, the next agenda or the one after that agenda is
pretty short notice.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does the person come over
from the Clerk's office with some basic computer skills?
MS. PIEPER: I believe so.
JUDGE TINLEY: It seems to me that the Office of
Court Administration probably has some folks on staff over
there that could be of considerable assistance about these
reports that are due to that office; that anybody with --
with reasonably good computer skills, and has the data
available to them, can figure out a way to do that report. I
assume they've got a format that they have mandated at OCA
for this report, have they not, Mr. Trolinger?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or
discussion on that motion? Ms. Decker? You want to weigh in
on something totally outside of your department?
MS. DECKER: Excuse me? You don't think this is
inside my department?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, ma'am, I don't.
MS. DECKER: Well --
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JUDGE TINLEY: Now, you may have an interaction
with that department.
MS. DECKER: I do.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. DECKER: Big time. I -- with John's help this
morning, I was able to run some collection reports on some
198th and 216th numbers. And I guess the point I want to
make is, this Court stressed how important this is. And to
give you a little information about the County Court at Law
collections rate, that's very, very high, but to explain to
you why it is. So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, wait just a minute
here. What are we fixing to do? Are we fixing to attack --
MS. DECKER: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the department?
MS. DECKER: You need to just calm down.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I don't need to -- do we
need to get that person in here before we --
MS. DECKER: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- throw too many rocks?
MS. DECKER: This is just numbers. I'm just going
to try to educate with you some numbers.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. DECKER: We looked at some of the judgments.
We randomly pulled a whole bunch of County Court at Law
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judgments. And on their report that I think you have
available on your computer, you'll see that, combined, the
rate is -- of the charges assessed is a million dollars,
almost. Of that, although it shows a high percentage rate of
collections, money actually collected is $246,000. Credit
given is 384, almost $400,000. So, we got to wondering
why -- why there's so much credit, because if you notice on
the district court report, there's very little credit given
at all. Any money we collect is cash money. So, when we
look -- pulled up some of the judgments, almost every
judgment in County Court at Law invites the defendant to
serve out his fine and costs at $50 a day. Well, who
wouldn't? So, when you look at this report that John ran,
almost everything is laid out. And I'm not sure that -- I
didn't realize that until just before lunch.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you looking at the same
report there in your hands that I'm looking at?
MS. DECKER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doesn't look like it.
MS. DECKER: Oh. Oh, the one just passed out that
I gave you?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am.
MS. DECKER: That's the felony stuff.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. DECKER: What I've got is on your -- I think is
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on your -- John? -- on your laptop, report on collections.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's why it doesn't look like the
one you got.
MS. UECKER: The point I'm trying to make is, not
only are they laying out all of their fines and court costs
in jail, it's costing the County another $50 a day for them
to be able to do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait. Wait, I have a question.
I like the information, but what in the world does this have
to do with us on a motion to hire somebody?
MS. UECKER: Well, just to stress the importance,
and maybe what we can see about where we can go from -- from
here to try to collect more money, rather than laying out
more money. And maybe it doesn't at this time. I just
thought maybe that's information you wanted to know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's information I want
to know, and I think it's important as to how we structure
that department, possibly.
MS. UECKER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And who's making that call,
from what you're saying. I mean, my thought would be that
that's a Spencer Brown issue. I have no idea. But, I mean,
I think the Judge determines what's to be done on individual
cases, not the Collections Department, which is reactionary,
but I don't know. I mean, I have no --
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MS. PIEPER: I think it's the law that if a person
sits in jail a couple of days prior to coming to the court, I
believe that they have to give them the -- the credit for the
time served.
MS. UECKER: Well, or --
MS. PIEPER: I think that's where that's coming in
at.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But --
MS. UECKER: Well, no, that is part of -- that's a
little part of it, but they're also invited after the
sentence to lay out their fine and court costs in jail.
And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But my point is, I don't know
how that's --
MS. UECKER: Okay. And maybe --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're off the agenda item. But
I want the information, and I think that's interesting, and
we need to fix that, 'cause I think that what you're saying
is that we're spending, basically, $100 a day, or double what
the credit is, that is costing the taxpayers money.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it's a net zero.
MS. UECKER: Yeah. And the point --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fifty -- $50 to incarcerate
to give them credit for, so net zero.
MS. UECKER: The point I'm trying to make is that
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this report, although it shows an extremely high collection
rate, is not much cash at all in our pocket.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MS. UECKER: And, you know, maybe we need to do
something else with the County Attorney. I understand that
the Judge will just do whatever. But, you know, I just
thought maybe this is some information you wanted to know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want the information. I'm
not sure it's relevant to the decision.
MS. UECKER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: What happens if a fine is assessed,
court costs are assessed, and the individual doesn't pay the
fine or the court cost? What -- what remedy does the Court
have?
MS. UECKER: In County Court at Law?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MS. UECKER: In County Court at Law, they can go to
jail.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. UECKER: And arrest -- but on misdemeanors.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. UECKER: On felonies, it's a little bit
different. There has to be a hearing, and then a certain
period of time, and then -- and even then, you know, most
judges consider it a debtor's prison, and they won't
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incarcerate anyone.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, then, County Court at Law, you
say the remedy is that if they don't pay, they can go to
jail.
MS. DECKER: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: If they go to jail, is it not true
that they get credit at the rate of $50 a day while they're
in jail against their obligation to Kerr County?
MS. DECKER: That's right, if they don't pay their
fine.
JUDGE TINLEY: Invitation or no invitation, I guess
my point is, you get the same result either way.
MS. DECKER: Of course you do, but it's the same
way on felony stuff. You look at the report that -- I mean,
but -- it's just information I thought you needed to know.
And how it compares with -- in district court, we try real
hard not to offer to lay it out in jail, because, number one,
there's no room in jail, and it costs the County another 50
bucks a day to let them do that, and we'd rather have the
~ money.
JUDGE TINLEY: I understand.
MS. DECKER: So, just for your information.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
MS. DECKER: And just to stress how important I
think this position is to you.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments on
the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Any other
business to come before the Court on this particular agenda?
In that event, we will be adjourned.
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 1:50 p.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR I
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 3rd day of June, 2008.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY: ____ _ .~~~G _____ _____ _
Kathy nik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
6-3-08
ORDER NO. 30869
FILL VACANCY IN COURT COMPLIANCE DEPARTMENT
Came to be heard this the 3`d day of June, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Appoint Terry Lyle as the Court Compliance Officer and offer her the plan of the
grade/step 16/1 for 90 days, and at the end of 90 days, have a review and go
forward from there.