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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Regular Session
Monday, May 12, 2008
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
May 12, 2008
--- Commissioners' Comments
1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
request from Randy Olson for a variance to
allow him to purchase a 5+ acre lot without
preparing a replat
1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
request for variance to OSSF rules
1.3 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
establish a leash law for Flat Rock Lake Park
in accordance with State law
1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
concerning amendment of plat for Privilege
Creek lots numbered 2 though 11
1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
address illegal dumping at Kerr County parks
1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve final plat of A-OK Storage
1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve final plat of Scenic Hills Summit East
1.10 Consider/discuss and take appropriate action
concerning concept plan to relocate Wilson Ranch
Road around Mo-Ranch
l.ll Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
name a private road per 911 guidelines
1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
proposed changes to the courthouse square
1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
obtain permission to proceed with pouring con-
crete at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center
1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve submitting AACOG Solid Waste Grant
Application to purchase one police package
vehicle for Environmental Health Department
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I N D E X (Continued)
May 12, 2008
1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve proclamation declaring May National
Historical Preservation Month
1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
regarding participation in energy management
services/assistance through State Energy
Conservation Office
1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
acquiring laptop computers for members of
Commissioners' Court, and installation of
necessary computer cabling in Commissioners'
Courtroom to permit court to participate in
electronic budgeting process and other
appropriate applications
1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
initiate an RFP process to hire a project
administrator & engineer for pending 2008
TxCDBG Colonia Fund project
1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve parameters for proposed design project
at Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center
1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
develop comprehensive protocol regarding access
to Kerr County financial and confidential
employee personal information
1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
enrollment or coverage options on Texas Assoc-
iation of Counties workers compensation self-
insurance fund
1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
proposed policy requiring all Kerr County elected
officials, department heads, and employees to
read and respond to e-mails received on a timely
basis, without necessity of prior communication
that such e-mail is being transmitted
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1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve Interlocal Cooperation Agreement for
Medical Examiner Services between Travis County
and Kerr County; allow County Judge to sign same 153
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I N D E X (Continued)
May 12, 2008
1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
declare old Animal Control van surplus
1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve tax collection contract with City of
Ingram; authorize County Judge to sign contract
1.24 Consider/discuss contract with Tyler Technologies
1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate actions to
approve/renew postage machine contract with
Pitney Bowes at the same government rate as the
last four years; authorize County Judge to sign
same
1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
implementation of the burn ban
1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve moving election duties to the Voter
Registrar's Office and one employee from County
Clerk's Office (Executive Session as needed)
4.1 Pay Bills
4.2 Budget Amendments
4.3 Late Bills
4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports
5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee
Assignments
Adjourned
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On Monday, May 12, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a regular
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in
the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Let me call to order this specially scheduled meeting of the
Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this
date and time, Monday, May 12th, 2008, at 9 a.m. It is that
time now. If you would be kind enough, please, to rise and
join me in a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge of
allegiance.
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's
any member of the audience or the public that wishes to be
heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is
the time for you to tell us what's on your mind. If you wish
to be heard on an agenda item, we would ask that you fill out
a participation form. They're located at the back of the
room. I assume there are still some there. It's not
absolutely essential that you do that, but it helps me know
that there's someone that wants to be heard on a particular
agenda item. But right now, if you want to be heard on a
matter that is not a listed agenda item, please feel free to
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come forward and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one
coming forward, it appears that we can move on.
I want to give recognition this morning to some
folks that don't get all the recognition they fully deserve.
Last week we -- we had another rash of wildfires. The bigger
ones were out in the west end of the county, and our
volunteer fire departments did a tremendous job in bringing
those under control. And as that camaraderie goes, when the
call went out, we had a lot of different departments,
in-county and out-of-county, that may not have been directly
affected by this fire or that particular fire that came to
our aid, and that's -- that's part of why these folks are so
effective in what they do. We had a total of eight fires,
according to the information I've got, that were out at Byas
Springs -- near Byas Springs Road; that one was estimated at
over 700 acres. We had another one out at Cypress Creek
Road, one on Weatherby Road, which is off of I-10 and 41, a
fire on Reservation Road, Carpenter Ranch out to the west.
There was one at Goat Creek Road. There was one out in
Kerrville South, on Vine and Turkey Spur, and then up in the
far west -- northwest part of the county, off of Highway 83
at The Dominion.
We had a lot of different agencies that pitched in
and made this happen and brought things under control. Of
course, our Sheriff's Department, they were out in force.
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The Mountain Home Volunteer Fire Department, Upper Turtle
Department, Divide Volunteer Fire Department, Harper
Volunteer Fire Department, Gillespie County Volunteer Fire
Department, the Ingram Volunteer Fire Department, and then,
of course, we had a number of -- of private individuals that
had the kind of equipment that is very helpful to bring these
under control. The big yellow iron equipment, bulldozers,
scrapers, backhoes, and things of that nature, that -- and as
usual, they stepped up; they pitched in and helped out also.
We also had participation from the Department of Public
Safety. Of course, our Road and Bridge Department was there
to assist with water and fuel. Kerrville Fire Department
assisted. The Forestry Service was there, and the Red Cross
they do. They work very, very hard, long hours when they go
to these fires. They don't know how long they're going to be
thPrP_ any] they gust stay until it's done. That's the way
thank them when you see them.
The other item I'd like to mention is, over the
past, oh, week and a half or so, we've had out here at the
Hill Country Shooting Sports Center a major shotgun shooting
event. It's a World Cup competition. It concluded
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yesterday, started the previous week -- actually, two weeks
prior, during that week. Went on for approximately ten days.
Those events bring a tremendous amount of money into the
economy of this community and this county, and the numbers
are really quite staggering when you look at them. I don't
think the ones for this shoot have been released yet, but
there have been numbers that have been released for other
shoots that have been here. We have a number of those each
year that occur out there, and it's really good for the
economy here. The merchants are -- are quite pleased to see
them come to town. You may have noticed out on the
courthouse grounds last week -- they may still be there now,
I'm not sure; I didn't look this morning -- there were the
flags of, I believe, 39 countries. Those were the number of
countries that had athletes participating in that shooting.
And I assure you, there was some mighty fine shooting going
on out there. I had the privilege of presenting the medals
for the women's skeet, and I'm very happy to report it was
U.S.A., one, two, three. But support that organization and
all that they do out there, because they do a tremendous job.
What do you got for us, Buster?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. I have a couple of
things. One is, I participated in a group -- a planning
group recently in regards to Lemos Street Bridge with TexDOT
and a whole bunch of other folks. And I think they have
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completed the preliminary work on that, and we've been
notified that there will be a closing of Lemos Street
beginning late August or September of this year for
getting geared. I know Bruce comes in from the west and uses
the new loop and comes over to the big bridge and comes into
town that way, and I think that's very smart, and it's
comfortable, isn't it? Beats -- beats the traffic. And so I
think we all need to kind of get geared in that way of using
-- using the big bridge. And -- but just think, life is good
in Kerrville. We could be living in Houston, with -- with
five preschool kids. (Laughter.) So, we don't; we live
here, and we're all a bunch of old geezers, so life is good.
The only other thing that I wanted to talk about,
Judge, is the election over the weekend. The smoking
issue -- which I think is the dumbest thing that I have ever
encountered, and I cannot believe us old-timers allow that
kind of nonsense to happen in our community. I am an
anti-tobacco guy. I'm just completing my battle with cancer
because of tobacco use, so I'm anti-tobacco, but I'm much
stronger on private property rights. And this thing has
just -- it's turned -- you know, I see in the paper where
they preach it's a health issue, and tobacco is a health
issue, but this particular thing that they approved this last
weekend is a private property rights issue, to me. And I can
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tell you that that little -- that that little fight's not
over. I guess that's about all. I'm pretty excited about
serving as a member of this Commissioners Court, and ready to
go.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner.
Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Left unsaid with the
Commissioner's comments regarding the smoking ordinance was
how they plan to enforce it. I agree with what you said.
You know, we'll see how they're going to enforce it. But I'd
like to offer my congratulations to Mayor-elect Todd Bock,
and to Councilmen Chuck Coleman and Scott Gross for their
re-election, and look forward to working with some of those
folks on some of our unresolved issues. Next.
JUDGE TINLEY: That it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, can I ask you -- I
just want to ask a question. I think it's a legal question.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's always dangerous.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the -- yeah. One of
the parts of the vote this weekend -- or one of the parts of
the ordinance, the smoking -- or city smoking ordinance is
you can't smoke -- 20 feet? -- 20 feet from an entrance, I
guess, of a public place or something, maybe. Does that
pertain to -- does the city ordinance apply to County-owned
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property? I think it does, but I also think that -- that we
need to be armed with --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sheriff?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff is nodding his
head, and the County Attorney is hiding. (Laughter.)
MR. EMERSON: County Attorney is saying put it on
the agenda and we'll talk about it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: The County Attorney would like more
advance notice than what he just got. Good question,
Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I just -- you know, it
does -- do city ordinances cover County-owned property?
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, going back to the fires
last week, one thing that you didn't say was the day that
those fires started, it was illegal to burn, burn ban or no
burn barn, in the state of Texas. And I know Commissioner
~ Baldwin is working on bringing some experts into Kerr County
to give us and our law enforcement agencies and judicial
L people some resolve in exactly what the law says and how big
~ these fines can be. And I would caution people that people
3 who start breaking burn bans or burning on days it's illegal,
4 whether it's a burn ban or not, I hope -- and I'll do
5 everything I can to get our judicial system to go after them,
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and law enforcement after them heavy-handed. It's absolutely
ridiculous, and the cost to the taxpayers of this community
for those fires that day was astounding, and needs to be
stopped.
One other item. This Friday at 9 o'clock, there's
going to be a group of other commissioners and county judges
in town. We're meeting out at Schreiner University. It's a
group -- it's kind of a loose group that's got most of the
hill country counties participating in it, and we're kind of
looking at the next legislative session. What they're going
to be working on is primarily in the area of subdivision
rules, but some other issues as well, and it's kind of
interesting. We're a little -- this -- our county, Kerr
County, the five of us up here are a little bit, probably,
more conservative than some of our brethren in the
neighboring counties, but we're hoping that they don't go too
far in some of these requests that they've got so they can at
least get our support. But some things there do need to be
some changes, and it does appear that subdivision rules are
going to be a very -- on the forefront this next legislative
session, so we're trying to keep input and keep involved with
that. That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Two things. Actually, there
are a lot more, but I don't want to talk about everything,
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take up all the time. The bridge projects in the Hunt area,
1340 and Highway 39, the first project is -- is Hope Crossing
on Highway 1340. They had a little delay, but they should
Crossings after that, which really kind of don't affect
anything but people touring that area out there. It doesn't
have much effect on the camps. So, that's progressing, and
then	Phase	2 will start	sometime probably late	fall or maybe
even	into	the winter.	But all those projects,	after
negotiating with the committee that was sanctioned by our
representative, Harvey Hilderbran, then also the state rep,
Fraser, has worked well, and that is one of the agreements
they made with us, that they would not work on those projects
during the summertime. And that was a pretty big deal
because of all the tourists that we have, and it makes it
really inconvenient that -- the travel up there is always so
restricted anyway with the narrow highway and what-have-you,
and it's kind of aggravating for those of us who live here
year-round to go through that in the summer, but that's part
of what we do.
The other thing is, a week ago Saturday, we had an
adopt-a-thon at the Animal Control, and it was very well put
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were surprised to see the facility being as well run and as
kept clean as it is. And I believe we had somewhere between
400 and 500 people came through, and we -- my wife and I and
another lady bought some brats and fixed them for -- I think
about 140 people ate. And they raised some donations and got
some animals adopted. It was a good thing. I think we're
going to start doing that at least annually, maybe
semiannually. And I may get shot for the semiannual thing,
because it's a lot of work to put it on, but it is a good
thing, and I think it's important that we -- we educate the
public on -- you know, on taking care of their pets and doing
it properly so we don't have this problem and have to have
the function of animal control being what it is today. Maybe
it can change in the future where it could be a no-kill, but
for the time being, we still have to deal with -- with that
part of it periodically. Anyway, that's all I have for now.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Commissioner. Let's get
on with our agenda. The first item was a timed item for
9:00. Of course, it's a bit after that now. Consider,
discuss, and take appropriate action on a request from Randy
Olson to grant a variance which will allow him to purchase a
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5-acre lot from Jack Clemer without preparing a replat.
That -- it's a road located at the end of Goat Creek Road.
MR. OLSON: I got some papers for y'all.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just hand me all of them,
Randy, and I'll --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can do that, pass --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- pass them around. Thank
you.
JUDGE TINLEY: There you go.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the variance?
MR. OLSON: Well, we're ready to close Wednesday.
And somewhere, I guess, y'all passed an ordinance or a rule
or something that Mr. Clemer's other property, which is 200
and --
MR. CLEMER: Seven.
MR. OLSON: 207 acres, we had to replat it or plat
it off for a subdivision. I'm not too familiar with that. I
mean, it's on y'all's -- I don't know. But he does not want
~ to sell any more land. It's in his family. I stopped and
talked to him three weeks ago, and he didn't want to sell any
L land. And then we got to talking, and he was a bomber pilot
~ in World War II, and I told him I just buried my dad in
3 Arlington Cemetery, and we talked a little while. Anyway, he
4 called me over two weeks ago and he said, "I want to do
5 something for another veterans's family." So he said, "I'll
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1 sell you 5 acres off my far corner." And he's not making too
2 many dollars off this deal, and we've already paid the
3 surveyor $2,000 just to do the one 5-acre tract, and he's
4 quoted 2,800 more for the next one, for, you know, y'all's
5 big one subdivision plat or something.
6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a little bit of
7 confusion, maybe. The rest of his property -- Mr. Clemer's
g property does not need to be platted. The piece you're
9 buying needs to be platted. And --
10 MR. OLSON: Well, it's already done.
11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, it's not -- no. I mean,
12 it's got to be platted as a subdivision. That's just state
13 law.
14 MR. OLSON: Well, I'm not making a subdivision.
15 It's 5 acres, and --
16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If it's less than 10 acres,
17 it's triggered under state law; it has to be platted.
1g MR. OLSON: Well, undoubtedly, something's
19 confused, because they were saying his --
20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: His property, he can carve out.
21 He can leave his property out, but the piece you're buying
22 has to be platted as a one-lot subdivision.
23 MR. OLSON: Well, I mean, how can we take it down
24 under 5 acres if we're under your septic tank and your water
25 well --
s-iz-os
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1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't make any difference.
2 State law says if you're less than a 10-acre tract, you have
3 to be platted. I mean, it's state law.
4 MR. CLEMER: May it please the Court, could I ask
5 this question? Because I practiced law for 37 years, but the
6 tract that he is going to buy from me, this is platted --
7 it's replatted. The rest of my ranch doesn't have to be
8 replatted, does it?
9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Hmm-mm.
10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
11 MR. CLEMER: We have a plat for this.
12 MR. OLSON• Is this good? Or is that a subdivision
13 plat? I don't know. It's one Ashley just did.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just a plat that refers
14
15 to subdivision. I mean, this --
MR. CLEMER: That is -- that is the part that is
16
17 being subdivided out of my ranch. I mean, subdivision to
18 him -- it's a tract to him. Other than this, I won't be
19 selling any more property.
20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. This -- what I'm
21 saying, that's not a -- that's not a subdivision plat.
22 That's just a drawing that the --
23 MR. CLEMER: It's a plat that the title company
24 will use to draw a metes and bounds description in order to
25 give a guaranteed title.
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1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. You can't -- well, if
2 you can't do -- Rex, why don't you explain it? I'm not doing
3 a very good job.
MR. EMERSON: You're explaining it perfectly clear.
4
5 If it's less than 10 acres, it has to be platted. And
6 there's certain procedures that you have to go through to
7 fulfill the plat requirements, and Road and Bridge can walk
g you through those.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The rest of your property is
9
10 fine; it can stay as it is, and is not part of a subdivision
11 plat. But if it's less --
12 MR. CLEMER: This is great, but my nephews and
13 nieces -- we had 1,100 acres there, and my nephews and
14 nieces, we partitioned it between us. At that time, we made
15 a plat, but it's a plat of a partition plat.
16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
1~ MR. CLEMER: And they have sold some of theirs.
18 They -- I need money, but I get by without it. They -- they
19 have sold some of theirs, and they, of course, platted theirs
20 because they were offering it for sale. It's back over
21 there, part in Gillespie County, part in Kerr County. But
22 I -- I just want to let Randy have a place to -- for his son
23 to live.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The only way you can not plat
24
25 this is if it's over -- 10 acres or larger. If the tract is
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10 acres or larger, it would not be required.
MR. OLSON: He didn't want to sell 10 acres.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then it's got to be platted.
And only that 5.2-acre tract is platted, and it's just a
matter of -- I mean, it appears from what you've just showed
me that Mr. Ashley's already done everything, other than go
through meeting with Road and Bridge and paying some -- the
fees for a real small subdivision.
MR. CLEMER: May it please the Court, I want to be
sure I understand this, and then I'll shut up and let y'all
conduct your business. You say the only thing that would
have to be platted is what we've already had surveyed?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. CLEMER: That would -- nothing else would have
to be platted, so this would not take but a month or so if he
just replats this, right?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It could go through in one
meeting under the alternate plat process. Correct, Leonard?
~ MR. ODOM: That's correct.
~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be one meeting to the
1 Court once the drawings's prepared. It has to go through --
2 there are some fees. There will be a -- Environmental Health
3 Department will have to review it, and if it's an existing
4 house and property --
MR. OLSON: Nothing on there; it's just raw land.
5
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Raw land.
MR. CLEMER: It's raw land.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it should be able to go
through, you know, pretty quickly, and you've got most of the
work, it appears, that Mr. Odom needs, so just have either
yourself or Eric Ashley meet with our Road and Bridge
Department, and it's a pretty simple process.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Basically, you're just
getting signatures showing that it's been reviewed.
MR. OLSON: Then it comes back to y'all?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then it comes back for final
approval.
MR. OLSON: So, there's no way to really get a
variance on this.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought there was a
variance process. I'm the one that encouraged him to do
that.
MR. OLSON: All-righty.
~ JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir.
~ MR. OLSON: Thank y'all.
L JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 2, if we might.
2 Consider, discuss, take appropriate action on a request for
3 variance to On-Site Sewage Facility rules. Mr. Wiedenfeld?
4 MR. WIEDENFELD: Morning, Commissioners. Charles
5 Wiedenfeld, licensed sanitarian, state of Texas. I bring a
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request to y'all on behalf of my clients requesting a
variance to the County's on-site sewage facility rules,
specifically the rule or standard for long-term soil
application rates. I proposed a plan for upgrading my
client's septic system, which is having signs of being
inadequate to serve their needs right now. They're located
in the city of Ingram, under the jurisdiction, I guess, of
City of Ingram, for which y'all administer their sewer
program. Again, back to my variance, I'm requesting that we
have a soil application rate of .2 gallons per square foot
per day. This is in the disposal area, commonly called the
drainfield. The rules call for a .1 gallon per day per
square foot, which is -- if you do the math, that takes twice
as much drainfield than what I am proposing. And I'm basing
my proposal or request on a variance in that this system that
they have, based on historical performance of the existing
system, has been in the ground for 30 years, probably been at
the capacity -- effluent loading capacity rate for the last
10 years as it is currently, and thus I feel like an
application rate of .2 has been appropriate for the last 10,
15 years.
Also, I want to bring out that the standards that
are prepared by the state or established by the state,
they're -- they're titled long-term soil application rates,
which they throw in a safety -- margins of safety in there
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for long-term application of effluent. And being the clients
are within the city limits of Ingram, City of Ingram tells me
that they're three to five years out on having central sewer.
Y'all may know probably a little more about that. My clients
are ready to hook onto that system, and will be required to
hook onto that system, as you probably know also. And they
were even to the point they'll be willing to extend any sewer
main that is necessary to get them to hook up. And, thus,
they felt like and I felt that if we didn't -- they didn't
feel like it was good sense at this time, business sense or
whatever, to put in a -- a septic system that was twice the
size of what was -- what I was proposing. What I'm proposing
is one and a half times. It's already a greater drainfield
than what was in there, plus it's coming -- coming up closer
to state standards.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Charlie, you feel like that
is not fair because of the new system that's coming on -- may
or may not be coming on board in a year or two? Is that what
you're saying?
MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, I think that is definitely
one of the considerations for, you know --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What else are you saying?
MR. WIEDENFELD: -- adequate protection, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What else are you saying?
MR. WIEDENFELD: Well, I think the biggest thing is
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that actual historical performance of the system, 'cause I'm
putting the system right in the same soils and the same area
that the existing one is. So, I mean, if the existing
system's lasted for 30 years, I mean, I would think -- and I
feel pretty good about putting my seal on something that I
can -- you know, I'm building it. I'm proposing a plan that
would be one and a half times the existing system; that that
would theoretically go for 45 years, rather than I'm only
anticipating a five-year type deal. And I don't believe that
we'll have any public health, environmental damage to
anything here. There is none at this time. The clients have
been very proactive. They -- you know, they have a little
bit of mushiness in the soil above the drainfield, but
there's no long-term evidence of long-term failure of the
septic system. The grasses are all still -- Bermuda grass,
well vegetated, no real problems.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this an office setting?
MR. WIEDENFELD: This is an office setting, yes,
sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wiedenfeld, you indicated that,
if I understand you correctly, number one, you are increasing
the evaporation aspect of this system by 50 percent over that
which it is now?
~ MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: And secondly, you mentioned that
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your client is obligated to hook onto the system when it's
put in, and it's pending, and there's some funding issues
that I think are kind of up in the air that we hope to hear
something about pretty soon, I think, or particularly the
folks in the city of Ingram. That your client would pay for
the extension of any main that may be necessary to hook up.
You're talking about the Phase 1 of that Ingram sewer
project, are you not?
MR. WIEDENFELD: Yes. That's my understanding,
yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I met with both Hill Country
Telephone and with Charlie Wiedenfeld the other day and went
over all these things, and actually saw the plans that -- the
construction plans for the wastewater system, Phase 1.
Actually, the phone company is in Phase 2, but they're
willing to extend the line to hook up to Phase 1 at their own
expense, and be reimbursed when the Phase 2 comes into play
sometime in the future, but it's at least a year and a half
away to be able to do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner, we --
precedent-wise, we've done this before in Ingram, have we
not?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we've granted a variance
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Charlie's trying to do the right thing, but I also know that
Environmental Health -- the reason that they're objecting to
it is because it's in Class IV soil. There's a lot of clay
in the upper level, and the old system was put much deeper
than you can put them nowadays, or really that should have
ever been allowed to begin with. But that was long before
the systems were inspected and designed the way they are
today. So, the upper level of that area, what I understand
from Ray and from Tish, is that it's Class IV soil. It's got
a lot of clay in it, and so, you know, clay is a very good
treatment, but it also saturates and seals and it doesn't
take as much as the lower level would in that, the more
gravelly type stuff. So, you know, we talked about also
making the -- if what he proposed did not work and we were
having problems out there, that they have another area they
could extend into to enlarge the drainfield area at such time
if it did cause a problem. They're trying to do the right
thing there. They just don't want to spend more money than
absolutely necessary to get them through till the time they
can hook onto the main wastewater line.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's where we are, I think.
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Is that pretty fair, Ray, from what I --
MR. GARCIA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not the first time
we've entertained something like this.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We entertained the same
situation in the Kerrville South sewer system, with the
promise or pledge that the owner would hook up when the line
got there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And they're even willing to
hook up at an even earlier time than they would be in the --
when the Phase 2 would come in. They would be able -- they
would be willing to spend the money to extend the line. And
I think, you know, it's -- I understand that the soil's not
that great, but, you know, it's up to us to kind of decide
whether we want to give a variance or whether we don't, and
-- and then let them -- and then that system being tagged
with, you know, if this causes a health or safety issue, then
it must be extended at that point if what he's proposed
doesn't work.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't recall the exact
particulars, but within the city of Ingram here sometime
back, there was one that by all rights would have required a
complete new system, and we authorized some -- I think we
termed it "emergency repairs," if I'm not mistaken, at the
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I time.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Because it was going to end up in
the -- in the sewer collection system of the city of Ingram,
and that was our primary basis in doing that short-term down
the road.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, anyway, there is -- I
mean, there is -- you know, of course, Environmental Health
is doing the best thing they can do, and they identified the
problems and they identified the soil, and they -- they do
object to going with what Charlie has proposed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The first -- I mean, this is
the way, in my mind, the system is supposed to work, and I'm
glad. When a variance comes up, something like that, I think
it's up to the Court to make the decision. You know, and I
think y'all are doing your job, too, that we want you to do.
To me, it makes sense. If you were to fashion a motion for
all this, I'd second it. I mean, you know, 'cause I think it
is a short-term solution. We have a precedent; we've done
this before.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll be glad to do that.
I'll make a motion that we allow the -- allow a variance for
the Hill Country Telephone in Ingram to install a system one
and a half times greater than the existing system, and at
such time before they hook up to Phase 1 wastewater for the
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City of Ingram, that they will need to extend that system to
meet the needs to protect health and safety.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And be willing to upgrade the
system if it --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I meant by what I
just said. They'll upgrade it if what we have allowed the
variance on does not work.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second as
indicated. Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a comment. I kind of
agree with your department on this thing because of the -- of
the soil issue, that it doesn't -- less ability to treat the
effluent. But I think -- I think the important issue here is
the fact that if this doesn't work, and you come along later
and then require them to expand out into some other property
or make their drainfield go on, what are you going to use as
-- I mean, obviously, these folks are not going to give you a
letter saying that they intend doing that. You're going to
just remember that these words were said in this court?
MR. GARCIA: Right. Well, that's one of the
questions that I had, is what -- 'cause in my enforcement
book on O.S.S.F., it -- where do I come to that point to
where I can use that as leverage?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Only thing I know of is the
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words used in this courtroom.
MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, and Bruce kind of
outlined it a little bit in his motion there. So, you know,
I guess -- that's -- to me, that's the only tool you have,
because you don't -- you're not going to get any kind of a
written agreement with Charlie or anybody, I don't assume.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'll basically be an
authorization to construct based on that. But if it does
fail -- if the system fails, it needs to be tagged onto that
permit to construct, and also the license to operate, that if
it does fail, they're going to be required to extend that
to -- to negate the health and safety issue.
MR. GARCIA: There is --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or you're also saying that
even if it -- even if it does not fail, when the sewer line
becomes available, they are agreeing to hook up to that sewer
line in Phase 1?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In Phase I.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, Ray, that even
if -- even if there's a permit issued straight out without
any conditions or notations on it, if there's a subsequent
i failure of a system that's permitted, because of whatever
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condition, and it creates a health or safety issue, you have
the ability to proceed under the legal authorities which you
operate your department under.
MR. GARCIA: Right, yes, sir. Under those
conditions, we do. In the enforcement of an actual failing
system, then we go in and we enforce it that way. Getting
back to the point to where Charlie has his clients, they're
required to hook up as soon as Phase 1 comes through, from
what Commissioner Baldwin said, okay, that's -- is that going
to give me -- that's the enforcement for us as to what was
said in court here for them to hook up immediately to Phase
1.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, let me make a point,
or make a comment. When we did the -- when we had a similar
situation that came before the Court on the Kerrville South,
that was a mobile home park, there was a -- there was a
separate letter of understanding or memorandum of
understanding that they signed in which they agreed to hook
up as soon as that line got there. I'm wondering if maybe we
should do the same thing in this case.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could have the County
Attorney draft a letter like that for them to sign it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly. Then -- then you
E know what -- what the Court has agreed to, and everybody
~ knows what the Court has agreed to, and we have the
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enforcement authority to take care of either situation.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that a lot better.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but let Hill Country
Co-Op draft the letter.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're suggesting that the motion
needs to include the condition that Mr. Wiedenfeld's clients
execute a letter to that effect, that they will hook up
promptly as soon as Phase 1 service is available?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's a good way
to proceed.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe that's a great way
to proceed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. GARCIA: Excuse me.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion's amended to that effect, I
presume?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
MR. GARCIA: I'd like to let Roy Shaver make a
comment, if you would, please. He's the Designated
Representative that is handling this O.S.S.F. system
installation.
MR. SHAVER: I just wanted to mention that there
was actually a request for two variances. The first one was
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to use the .2 gallons per square foot per day exception. The
second one was to allow a pipe length in the drainfield of
90 feet -- 93 feet, whereas the state standards usually
require nothing longer than 70 feet. The reason for that is
because of the excessive pressure drop in a longer line, and
93 feet is much longer than a normal standard. I looked at
Mr. Wiedenfeld's calculations. He indicated that the
pressure drop was going to be about one and a half foot of
head. If the pressure head is kept at 2 to 4 feet, which is
the required standard, then there shouldn't be a problem with
that, and I would agree to that. The only thing I'm just
wanting to bring out is there were two variances requested,
so if you give approval, then you need to give approval to
both of the variances.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I missed one of them, I'm
sorry. I went off into a coma there for a minute.
MR. SHAVER: Well, the first variance was as
Mr. Wiedenfeld asked for, classifying the soil basically as a
Class III when it's really a Class IV. That's the main
request. The second one was to use a pipe length of 93 feet
instead of 70 feet.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, what are we doing here
today?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, are you objecting to
that, Mr. Shaver?
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one, I am.
MR. SHAVER: Not the second one, no. The first
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: So the second portion going from 70
to 93 feet is something that's acceptable, based on your --
MR. SHAVER: Yeah, I think that's acceptable. It
could be done.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does your motion include both
variances? What do you want to do, a second motion?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we ought to just wipe
that whole thing out and start over.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The soil issue --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The soil issue is --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is a big issue.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is a good issue, but the
thing is, it's been functioning, but it's been much deeper
over the years, in the years previous to now. But I still
believe that, on a short-term basis, that we could make
that -- we could do the variance on the soil type and Mr.
Shaver, you know --
JUDGE TINLEY: The length.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Extended length of the piping
I don't think is a problem. But, like I said, we have the --
I believe we have the assurance, or will have before the
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system goes in, from the phone company that they're willing
to do whatever it takes to make sure that health and safety
is of the utmost importance. So, let me try again. I move
that we grant a variance to Mr. Wiedenfeld to construct a --
a system one and a half times greater than the existing
system in Class IV soil, and that the piping be -- the
variance be extended from 70 to 93 feet, and at such time as
we receive a letter from Hill Country Telephone agreeing to
extend the sewer line in Phase 1 of the wastewater project,
and if the system that we have given a variance on fails,
they will agree to extend that to protect health and safety.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: You -- okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Covered all the bases.
JUDGE TINLEY: You got any discussion, questions on
that motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you,
sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, how do you feel about
gambling in New Mexico? (Laughter.) What a motion.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under a tent.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the longest winded one
in a while, huh?
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 3, if we might, to
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to establish a
leash law for Flat Rock Lake Park in accordance with state
law; also establish a Class C misdemeanor under Texas Health
and Safety Code, Section 365.012, with fines up to $500 for
persons who fail to clean up their animal's waste while using
Flat Rock Lake Park. Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Here we go again, Judge.
We've been down this road before, and we're back again. And
I guess -- I guess what I want to start the discussion is for
Mr. Bollier to step to the podium and tell the Court and the
public what he and his maintenance crews are experiencing
with respect to Flat Rock Lake Park and dog feces all over
the place. Mr. Bollier?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir, Commissioner Williams.
Well, like I've said in the past, there in the park -- I
can't pronounce the word you said, so I'm just going to use
"poo." Dog poo is all over the park, and it's just getting
worse. When we go down there to mow, the dog poo is on the
-- it gets on the tractor tires and it comes out from
underneath the deck. You can't even go down there and have a
picnic any more. You can't walk anywhere without getting it
all over your feet. I mean, it's just a mess, sir. So, I
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in addition to your
complaints from citizens with respect to inability to use the
park with their families for picnics and so forth because of
failure of animal lovers who use the park, their failure to
clean up behind their animals. And I got to say at the
outset, I don't have any grievance against people who own
dogs. I was a dog owner all my life until five years ago.
But I have sat out there and watched, and I have driven
through that park and I have witnessed people who have their
bodies here, their animal there, and the dog is doing what
the dog does and what he needs to do when he needs to do it,
and nothing happens except the owner keeps walking along
oblivious to what's going on. That needs to stop. So, we
have this issue before us. Anybody else want to comment?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a comment, that in
some of the pre -- earlier times when we talked about this,
we were assured by many of the dog owners that they would
start cleaning up after the dogs, and that has -- that's not
taken place, and they would also keep the dogs under close
control, and that has not taken place. So, I think we've
given the opportunity for people that want their dogs to run
free to do a better job, and they up to now have not done
that.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there are some who have
proposed that the County provide the little baggies that you
put your hands in them and all that stuff, and for this very
purpose, and I don't see that that's an appropriate use of
taxpayers' money, for us to provide that kind of cleanup
material for people who have had the privilege of using that
park unfettered. So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question.
Going back to your picture of dog here and owner here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the dog -- is it "poo"?
(Laughter.)
MR. BOLLIER: You know what it is, Commissioner.
Commissioner, you know what it is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's another word that
starts with C. You can do it that way, if you like.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. So, the answer to the
problem would be to make people put their dogs on leashes?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that they're -- when the
dog poos, they're right there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in a position to clean
up behind their dog.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you used a word just a
moment ago, the word "privilege," and that's a point I want
to make, is that that is a privilege for people to use that
park for any reason. And it's definitely not a right, but
it's a privilege. And so far, I think that we have bent over
backwards to allow the animal people to -- I mean, it's not a
dog park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not a dog park.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did not go the dog park
route. Are the Ag Barn people still in here? Yeah. We
can -- we can turn the Ag Barn over to the dog people.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they could go in the
pigpen.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Big fight. The room is full
of dog folks.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I hope that they get the
opportunity to speak here today, but if I had to vote right
this very moment, I would vote for your leash law.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess one other comment is,
until we hear from those that want to speak, the -- the
bridge is now in place, at least for walking across, maybe
not for driving. And the -- we've referred to it as the
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eastern portion of the park, east of Third Creek. I have no
problem with -- you know, for the people being -- anyway,
leaving that no leash required, but the part west of Third
Creek, leash and cleanup required. And if we don't see much
of an improvement, the whole park may, you know, end up going
the leash law.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That could be an alternate
suggestion, Commissioner. Let's hear what the public has to
say.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just an idea.
JUDGE TINLEY: Will our agenda item authorize that
particular action? No.
MR. EMERSON: Which part?
JUDGE TINLEY: Declare the eastern portion -- the
eastern segment of that park, that it's not governed by the
leash law. I didn't think so, okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, good. That's not a
good idea, anyway. Sorry, Jon.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have one participation form that
has been filed, Mr. Robert Palmer.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're kidding. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've seen Mr. Palmer
before.
MR. PALMER: I want to thank you for that buildup.
About ten months ago, those of us who wanted a place for our
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dogs off-leash were allowed by y'all, through an agreement,
to use Flat Rock Park. And the understanding was that we
would keep our dogs in verbal command or on leash, and that
we would not let any stray -- we would contact someone about
strays. So, it says in the newspaper here, the last time
this came up, Commissioners said there haven't been any
complaints lately about unleashed dogs attacking other dogs
or people, but rather complaints about dog feces. Well, the
Commissioners -- you never came to us, the dog owners, and
said, "We have a problem here. Would you help clean it up?"
I have been available. Other members have been. If you had
seen somebody in the park that was not cleaning up, all you
had to do was come -- go over and make a comment to them.
Since this article has come out in the newspaper, which was
on the 29th, on that very day a petition went around to the
Kerr County Commissioners, et al. You have this petition.
We, the undersigned dog owners, do agree from this day
forward -- that's April 29th, 2008 -- to pick up our dogs'
feces when walking our dogs at Flat Rock Park. Now, that was
two weeks ago. Since then, the park has not only had -- been
as clean, but all the trash -- we picked up trash, we picked
up dog feces. The park is as clean as it's ever been. Now,
your person who mows comes there once -- what, every two
weeks or once a month? If he had come back, he would have
seen that this park -- that we are ready to take
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I	responsibility	for this park, because	we appreciate this
2	privilege that	we've been given. And	if you give us a
3	chance, we will	keep this park clean.	Right now, it's
4	cleaner probabl	y than any park in Kerrville. So, one thing
5	that is really	annoying and resentful,	I think -- I resent
6 it -- is that we are now -- since we have made this
7 agreement, it's like we are sitting around as target
8 practice. Anything goes wrong in the park, find the
9 people -- the off-leash people and blame them. There are
10 many people on leash -- who have their dogs on-leash right
11 now down there who are doing the same thing. They're not
12 picking up their dogs' poop. And a lot of the fishermen who
13 come with their dogs along the edge of the river let their
14	dogs go. So, what	I'm proposing is you	take this petition
15	seriously, because	it has the names of a lot of people that
16	are here, of all the people who utilize	this park with their
17	dogs. And we made	sure that everybody	who did put their name
18	on this, they were	more than willing to	keep this park. So,
19	I want to know if we have any leeway on	this, if we can have
20	some time to prove	that we can keep thi	s park clean before
21	you try to enforce	a new law that says	we have to put a leash
22 on the dogs.
23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You've already had a year.
24 MR. PALMER: Right. And according to you, there
25 haven't been any complaints about unleashed dogs attacking
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other dogs or people.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I'd had them, you'd have
heard about it.
MR. PALMER: So, we worked hard to take care of
that problem, and none of you came to us and said, "Look, we
have a problem with it -- the feces there. Can you help us?
Can we work together on this?" You didn't do that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are your office hours
and where do I find you?
MR. PALMER: You have my phone number.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, that don't get it.
MR. PALMER: I'm in the phone book. I've talked to
you individually. I tried to get -- I tried to get this
dispenser for y'all to make a commitment. A whole $175.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not, for one, going to
propose that the taxpayers' money be spent to clean up after
your dog or anybody else's dog, no.
MR. PALMER: Well, see, every park --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's my vote. No.
MR. PALMER: Every park that has dogs just about
has this system. Dispensers --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then you take your dog to
that park.
MR. PALMER: No, we will probably agree to put this
in ourselves, if we can keep this privilege. We will
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're not giving it to us.
MR. PALMER: You said -- you've already told me
that you would set it up if I -- if I got it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's to set up? I'm not
even going to go there, Mr. Palmer. We're not going to spend
any money on it. The issue --
MR. PALMER: No, I'm not saying --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The issue is about people
cleaning up after their animals, period.
MR. PALMER: You use your crew to set it up where
you want it once we have the dispenser.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Bollier has his hand
up.
MR. BOLLIER: Sir, the stations that they're
proposing to put out, if I'm correct, it's going to have a
trash can, and the lid will probably have two sides where
there are rubber gloves on one side. Is that correct?
MR. PALMER: No.
MR. BOLLIER: Because if that is correct, we don't
need them in the park, because all that's going to end up is
we're going to have rubber gloves all over the park next.
MR. PALMER: It's not rubber gloves. It's a
biodegradable bag, which I have a sample of right here. And
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these are not like HEB's, where they are plastic and
everything. These are biodegradable. You put it on your
hand like this and then pick up the poo, and then you pull it
inside out.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kind of strange to me --
MR. PALMER: They're biodegradable.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kind of strange to me that
you're proposing all this today, and you had a whole year to
deal with this issue, and you haven't dealt with it.
MR. PALMER: Well, one of the reasons that we
haven't is because we were -- we're -- we want to live up to
our responsibility now. Since the County didn't seem to be
concerned about it, we weren't concerned about it either.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We are concerned about it.
MR. PALMER: You're telling me now, see? You're
telling this group now that you're concerned about it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why would it be our
responsibility --
MR. PALMER: Well --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For 12 months, we've had
this disagreement about -- why would it be our responsibility
to tell you to clean up after your dog? Why wouldn't that be
your responsibility?
MR. PALMER: It is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
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MR. PALMER: And I'm saying that if you'll give us
this opportunity to prove that we can keep this park clean --
which we're doing now; you can go down there right now --
that we will keep the privilege -- we will respect this
privilege that we have.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Mr. Palmer?
MR. PALMER: Just one last thing. I have a
picture -- you may have a picture of -- she may have made a
copy of this. It shows a man up in the left hand corner, if
you have that. I'm not sure if you made a copy of it. I'll
give this to you. He's got a baggie. It's a dog; it's
looking for --
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh.
MR. PALMER: Okay? It shows one of the responsible
dog owners with a baggie following his dog. This was taken a
week ago Saturday.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a picture of you,
Mr. Palmer?
MR. PALMER: No. No, I'm much younger.
(Laughter.) Anyway, he -- once he picks up the dog poo,
where is he going to put it? As you see, all three of those
garbage cans that are in the park are all full and stuffed
with garbage.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to deal with
that issue next.
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MR. PALMER: I think you're going to. But that is
one of the problems that we've had, is there's no place to
put it once we pick it up.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an excuse, not a
reason.
MR. PALMER: I didn't say it was. I said that's
one of the problems we have. Anyway, once again, I'm asking
that you give us some leeway. We have proved that we can
handle our dogs, and we can handle them responsibly in the
park. Now give us a chance to prove we can pick up our poo.
And we're doing that now. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Palmer. Is there
anyone else? That's the only public participation form that
I have. Yes, ma'am? Please come forward, give us your name
and address, and tell us your take on this issue.
MS. EGLOFF: My name is Sherry Egloff. I'm
relatively new here in Kerrville. I come from a big city; I
come from the Chicago area, where we do clean up after our
dogs, and I'm used to always carrying the poo bag. You know,
and I walk down there with all these other folks and we enjoy
our animals and that. I agree with Bob that this issue -- I
was at this last meeting where we were talking about
aggression of dogs, I believe was the primary thing. We've
certainly handled that. I think our dogs are in good
control. And the issue of dog poo did not come up at that
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time. I don't recall it at all. Anyway, now it's a new
issue, and we're willing to deal with that. I clean up after
my dog. It's something that, you know, we city folk do. But
my problem has been I have no place to put it. I'm not going
to carry this all the way home smelling to high heaven in my
car. I'd like a place to put it. And I think it would be a
relatively easy thing to put a garbage can near the entrance.
You know, you park the car when you come down there; you go
through the entrance into the park. If you put a garbage can
there, I think the majority of us are responsible people. We
would clean up after our dog, deposit it there, get in our
car and go home. But that's just my issue. Anyway, I hope
you will consider that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Is there anyone
else that wishes to be heard on this item? I didn't know
whether you were coming this way or going that way. You're
coming this way. If you'll give us your name and address,
please?
MR. ALLISON: Yes. Richard L. Allison, 113 Arizona
Ash.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir.
MR. ALLISON: And I've been walking down at Flat
Rock for about three years, and there have been some people
with their dog, on leash or off leash, that don't pick up
after them. So, the leash is beside the point. A dog can go
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on a leash as well as it can off a leash. I think that we
need to have the opportunity to take care of our pets as we
deem. If we're out of line, then we need to be told that.
Also, there's an awful lot of ducks and geese down there, and
who picks up after them, you know? That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Is there anyone
else that wishes to be heard on this particular issue? Yes,
sir, please come forward give us your name and address.
MR. PILLATZKE: David Pillatzke, 216 Hamilton
Street. Yeah, that was -- you know, I'm not really here for
this issue, but my question is -- is how does a leash law
control dog feces? I go to a lot of other parks. I have
children, you know; I make it an issue to go to clean parks
and stuff like that. But I really don't understand how -- if
you govern a leash, how that's going to control the people
that aren't responsible to pick up after themselves.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good question, and I don't really
think there is a direct relevance.
MR. PILLATZKE: So, that's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Cause and effect. Thank you, sir.
Anyone else wish to be heard? Okay. Well, we appreciate
your participation. Mr. Bollier, in the last couple of
weeks, have you noticed the feces problem lessening out
there?
MR. BOLLIER: To tell you the truth, Judge, I
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haven't really paid a lot of attention to it the last week.
And the week before that, I can't say that I saw anybody
picking it up, but I can't say that it was any worse either,
sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Probably the most marked
effect, if there was a concerted effort being made the last
two weeks, would probably have shown up more last week than
the week before?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: If, in fact, that was occurring.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: But you didn't make a survey in
order to determine whether or not, at least --
MR. BOLLIER: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- it decreased? Okay, thank you.
MR. BOLLIER: I did not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex?
MR. EMERSON: Sir?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a memo from you
April 15th talking about dumping -- illegal dumping, and
that's state law, right? You know, so people that don't
clean up are in violation under this law?
MR. EMERSON: Correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. And then on the
agenda item, there's a -- I guess an option to impose a leash
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law? That's -- that's not currently under state law? We --
that's something we have to proactively --
MR. EMERSON: There's already a leash law in effect
for Kerr County under the Rabies and Animal Control Order
that exists.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, just a matter of enforcing
the current law?
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And posting appropriate
signs?
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I want to make a
comment right quick, and that is that I agree with the dog
folks in the sense that we need to give them an opportunity,
give them a chance to use the property and clean up after
themselves and all that. However -- and I'll vote that way
if I get the opportunity. But this ridiculous -- ridiculous
comment of we should contact you to tell you to go clean up
after your dog, Bob, is just -- I mean, you're out there, far
as I'm concerned.
MR. PALMER: What I meant was that we want to have
a working cooperation with the County, and so if you see
something that we could help you out with, you could call me
or any person here who has a dog that uses it. I'm not
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MR. PALMER: -- call me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if that park was in my
precinct, I tell you, the police would be down there watching
you all 24 hours a day. I'm kidding. (Laughter.) But, you
know, it's just -- I don't think the government needs to be
telling you to clean up after your dog. I mean, that's --
how silly could that possibly be? And you have -- it is
definitely a privilege, and I think -- I think that is an
important point, and I appreciate you using that word as
well. But it's a privilege that we get to use these
properties, and absolutely the most beautiful properties and
the most beautiful county and the most beautiful state. I
mean, that -- that's big-time pretty stuff down there.
And -- but I think, you know, that you guys need to have the
opportunity to -- you know, I think you're hearing -- hearing
this now. You have the opportunity to continue what you're
doing for some time frame, couple of months or something like
that. And if Mr. Bollier, that's responsible for mowing down
there, if he comes back and says -- let's see -- the poo is
hitting the fan -- (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That'll be the blade
underneath the mower.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be the blade
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under the mower. If that's the case, then, you know, I don't
care if you have a place to ever take your dog. So, that's
where I'm at. I want to work with y'all and give you an
opportunity to do your -- do your thing. But if you don't --
if you don't live up to your side of it, it's over, far as
I'm concerned. That's just me, though.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, I'm --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's one vote.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm, I think, of very similar
thinking. The -- the issue of this Court or anybody on this
Court having an obligation to notify someone that they must
comply with the law, I don't think is -- I don't think is as
a condition precedent to their having to accept
responsibility, that that's our obligation. Having said
that, I -- I think they should be afforded a reasonable
opportunity to demonstrate that they can be responsible pet
owners. And if it works, great. If it doesn't, we may have
to take the next step.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two comments. One, there's a
question about the dumping issue versus the leash issue. I
think they are tied together, because when a dog's on a
leash, it's a lot easier to see which dog is doing the other.
When they're running free, it's much harder from an
enforcement standpoint. I think it makes it a lot easier.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a lot easier to see
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I what?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What your dog just did.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The illegal dumping, which is
what it's actually called.
AUDIENCE: Poo.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Poo.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pooing?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or pooing, if you choose.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to come up with some
universal language here so I can stay with you guys.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're on the threshold of
that right now.
JUDGE TINLEY: I was thinking pineapples.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other part is, my
recollection is that, somewhat similar to prior
conversations, that the -- the pooing or dumping issue has
been discussed, and I kind of think -- what I think of my
wife doing to my little boy sometimes, is that you get one
more chance. And that's -- you know, and after a couple of
those "one more chances," Karen usually says -- points to me
and says, "Take care of this." Well, we're at that point
almost right now. You'll have one more chance, in my mind,
but from -- after -- if there continues to be a problem,
there will be a leash law and there will be antidumping
enforcement.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On that happy note,
Commissioner, I will come back with this issue three months
from today. And if it's the same or not improved, then we're
going to do something about it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I would recommend that
someone, not the County, figure out a way to get the baggies
available if they want to continue to use the park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And not at taxpayers'
expense.
MR. PALMER: If we purchase a dispenser, will y'all
set it up in the park?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can get with
Mr. Bollier and figure out how best to do that.
MR. PALMER: All right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to tell you as
firmly as I know how to tell you, this is the last chance. I
will come back with this issue in three months. If this
issue -- if this particular problem is not corrected, period.
MR. PALMER: So, are we in a no-win scenario here?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. That's up to
you.
MR. PALMER: Sounds like it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's up to you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a comment about this
issue. I promise to keep it short. It seems that areas that
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1 are successful with having people pick up after themselves
2 have signs posted in a little bit nicer manner, with the word
3 "please" on it. Do this because it's the right thing to do,
4 but also because leave it like you found it or better so that
5 the people coming after you can enjoy it as well. You know,
6 and maybe make some nice -- nicer type signs rather than
7 threatening signs, and see what happens. Maybe just one
8 great big one, and have Road and Bridge Department make it
9 up. Because I do believe that -- I respond better if I'm
10 told and asked in a nice way than I do somebody trying to
11 cram it down my throat.
12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that. That's
13 easily done.
14 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all I have to say
15 about it.
16 JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have a
17 motion to offer in connection with this particular agenda
18 item?
19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'll withdraw this for
20 now, Judge, and if it's not improved, I'll bring it back in
21 three months.
22 JUDGE TINLEY: Very well. We'll move to Item 4;
23 consider, discuss, take appropriate action to address --
24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a timed item.
25 JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, we do? Oh, mercy, yes. Way
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over on the next page. Strike that. We'll go to Item 12, a
timed item for 10 a.m. It is past that now. Consider,
discuss, take appropriate action concerning the amendment of
the plat for Privilege Creek lots numbered 2 through 11.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one was that? Item
number?
JUDGE TINLEY: Number 12.
MR. JACKSON: Good morning. David Jackson, 820
Main, on behalf of the developer, Boerne Falls. Let me give
you a little introduction, and then I'll hand out something.
We came to you -- oh, gosh, maybe a couple of three months
ago after a settlement had been reached in the litigation
with Kendall County. That litigation was essentially the
issue of how roads connect between counties. And to the
credit of the developer and Kendall County, there was a
resolution of how that's going to work. Apart of that
resolution was to be sure that the Boerne Falls Subdivision
had private streets and it was a gated community. We came
with an amendment to the plat, felt like that was what was
needed. You passed it. We thank you for that. But we're
back because Kendall County feels that there's some other
things that they would like for me to present on behalf of
the developer to you, have you consider those things. If you
find that they're okay with you and your rules, then you
would adopt these matters and we would go on and finish the
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To be candid and balanced here, the judgment -- or
the settlement that has been reached depends a lot on what
you're willing to do. I've met with the County Attorney in
Kendall County. I think his requests are reasonable, or I
wouldn't be here, and I'll go over them in detail with you.
But that's the proposal; that's the action item, specifically
to consider a concept plan, which shows you the whole
development. And we're dealing only with Kerr County, not
Kendall County properties. And, secondly, to adopt an
amended plat which replaces the last amended plat. The only
changes are in the notes. There's no changes on roads,
there's no changes on lots, there's no changes on anything.
And I'll go over those notes. So, let me give you my
handouts and then we'll go over that.
The first set is five pages of an amended plat,
which is the same as the prior plat. The only difference is
on the first page, there is a set of notes, and I'll go over
those in detail. I think, Rex, you've already got a set of
all those, I think. The second is a master plan of the
development. It's not a plat, per se. It's called master
plat just for point of reference, but it's also so that
you -- so that you can see what the whole settlement's about.
These are big plats. You let me know what works better for
y'all. Perhaps maybe just a couple to look at?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me just a second.
Lee Voelkel, would you like to come up here and look at all
I this?
MR. VOELKEL: I can if you want me to.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, go back to sleep,
then.
MR. VOELKEL: Thank you. (Laughter).
JUDGE TINLEY: You need to apologize for waking him
up.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm sorry.
MR. JACKSON: I'll pass one over there. Here you
go. Here you go. I've got more copies here if you want.
The concept plan's probably where we ought to begin. And,
again, it shows you in green what's already been platted.
That isn't changing, except for some notes. There are some
notes on this master concept plan. Those notes essentially
say -- this is all Boerne Falls. It says that one lot's not
included, which wasn't in the amended plat. It makes
reference to some unowned property in Kendall County which is
not part of the lawsuit, and it basically says all of this is
part of Boerne Falls Ranch, a private gated subdivision.
This is what Kendall wants us to agree to and asks to you
consider, so that we all know what we're dealing with. It
involves a lot of potential lands that may be acquired,
but -- by option, but under the settlement agreement, there
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will be an agreed judgment, a set of restrictions, and a road
maintenance agreement. Each of those documents are
referenced on each one of these so that anybody who buys
understands they're taking it subject to all of this, which
is the essence of what we're trying to accomplish.
The amendment on Page 1 of -- there's five pages,
but the only part of the amendment that's particularly
important is the part that deals with the notes, and here are
the changes that we've made in the notes. It's the standard
stuff that was on there before. First, we had a reference to
a homeowners' association. That wasn't exactly correct.
We've changed that to be Boerne Falls Property Owners'
Association. Second, instead of saying all roads are
private, we said all roads are private restricted access.
These are all language changes that Kendall County would like
for us to be clear about, and which we accept. I don't mean
to represent that we're doing something we're not willing to
do. We've agreed to do this. It adds a specific reference
to the lawsuit, final judgment, which is an agreed final
judgment, and those other documents, restrictions, and road
maintenance.
The other thing that was changed is, your standard
maintenance paragraph says this is private; you're not
responsible for maintaining it, and then you have some
language that says if somebody would bring it up to
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standards, you might consider it. It's just your standard
paragraph. They didn't like that, because under our deal, we
can never have the County ever maintain. It's always got to
be private. We're willing to agree to that, so we just
pulled out the part that even gave the option that the County
could maintain it. That's it. Sorry to have to come back,
but understand that it's because we need to get this done.
We need to move on, and this developer needs to go on, plus
Kendall County needs to get this signed up. So, I
respectfully ask you to approve the amended plat and the
master plat, and we'll take it from there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon --
JUDGE TINLEY: Essentially, there are three things.
One is, you've added a note indicating that the property is
part of Boerne Falls Ranch?
MR. JACKSON: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: That being a private, gated
subdivision.
MR. JACKSON:
JUDGE TINLEY:
of the agreed final jud
promulgated in that, as
agreement there?
MR. JACKSON:
JUDGE TINLEY:
Yes, Your Honor.
Secondly, it's subject to the terms
~ment and the restrictions which were
well as the road maintenance
Correct.
And you've modified our normal road
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maintenance language which says these roads are private, Kerr
County has no obligation to maintain them, but if in the
future you want to -- you want Kerr County to have a
maintenance obligation, there's certain things you got to do.
You've merely deleted that "but in the future, if you want
Kerr County...," and that's been eliminated so that the roads
have no possibility of ever becoming public roadways?
MR. JACKSON: That's correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the verbiage,
restricted access roads? Private -- is that -- is that
added?
MR. JACKSON: It is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's added to our --
that's added language to our rules?
MR. JACKSON: Not to your rules, just to the
verbiage about private streets.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Why the words
"restricted access roads"? Why?
MR. JACKSON: It comes out of the language in the
settlement agreement that's been signed, and the Kendall
County Judge and County Attorney requested that specific
word, and I said I'd be happy to ask this Court, Kerr County,
to consider it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: David, are we talking about
this amendment of plat is only for that which is shown in
green on this big map?
MR. JACKSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not the other portions of
this huge --
MR. JACKSON: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- tract?
MR. JACKSON: Just like any concept plan, it's
merely a guide tool that we'll use. It'll be used in these
agreed judgments to show what it covers, and then when we
come back for plats, it's helpful to Road and Bridge to say,
okay, this is where that is in relationship to the whole
deal.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got you. Thank you.
MR. JACKSON: By way of reference, there's an
EMT -- in the settlement agreement, it's not that big a deal,
there's an EMT site. So, there's some things that are being
required of the developer as a matter of the Kendall County
lawsuit, but Kerr will become a beneficiary of that, because
those will be sites that are available to all the people in
both counties.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I certainly won't make
any comments on this. I will not make a comment, but I think
the Court is aware, from an affidavit I filed a long time
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ago, that I have the neighboring ranch to the east, and
there's a contract that we have with the developer on part of
this. And I have a -- if we could have a recess, I'd like to
talk to the developer here, or Mr. Jackson. I have a
question about -- it's more on the personal side, but
certainly has an impact on this, what they're asking the
County to do. Just to keep from a -- my personal interest,
I'd like to visit with them before the Court makes a
decision, if that's appropriate.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, understood. We're not far
from our mid-morning break. You've given us everything you
want us to hear?
MR. JACKSON: Yes, Your Honor.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Jackson.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another comment, I have not
seen any of this stuff prior. I mean, it's something the
developer has been working on, which is certainly what we
should be doing.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, are we in a position
to take an action or not?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just requested that I visit
with --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, you want -- okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- visit with the attorney
before the Court votes, just to make sure that --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- we're all on the same page.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court wish at this
time to offer a motion with respect to this particular agenda
item? Let's go back, then, to Item 4. Consider, discuss,
and take appropriate action to address illegal dumping at a
Kerr County park. Mr. Bollier?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Parks and dumping seems to be a
prominent issue today.
MR. BOLLIER: Well, this was back when -- all this
really started happening back when Mr. Holekamp was still
here, and we used to have -- used to have 55-gallon barrels,
I think five of them, down in that park. Well, it got so bad
that the illegal dumpers were coming in there, dumping
household garbage down there in the parks, so we decided to
take barrels out so that would give them less places to dump.
That's the reason there's only three barrels down there now.
And it seems like every -- well, it's doesn't seem like; it's
every single Monday morning	when you	go down	there after a
weekend, there is household	garbage	there.	You can go to the
Center Point -- Center Point park, same thing there. You can
go to the one -- the little boat ramp in Ingram, same thing
there. The people are throwing their household garbage out
in the parks. We have even -- on several different
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occasions, B.J. has taken his boys, and we have even opened
up the sacks and looked through to try to find letters,
magazines, or anything with somebody's name on there. We
have not accomplished that; we have not found names. So,
that's where we're at. I mean, and it's -- I haven't talked
to B.J. this morning, but I'm sure that the same problem is
still there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is this a -- an authority issue to
act upon that, or is this an enforcement issue? Okay, let me
state my question another way. Do we have the lawful
authority to take action against folks who deposit their
household garbage at these public parks?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. There's a law that states
that they can't -- I mean, Ray can answer that question.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. GARCIA: That is illegal dumping, and it is
theft of service. We can enforce it just by Health and
Safety Code 365, and do it by volume.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. GARCIA: Whatever is a greater penalty. But,
again, it is trying to enforce that, having somebody down
there to do that. We have set up surveillance for
Mr. Bollier at the Ag Barn with our surveillance system
there. There's a possibility of doing it down at the park
also.
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JUDGE TINLEY: So, we're really talking about an
enforcement issue, and whether or not this Court wants more
resources than are presently being utilized to be
concentrated on that issue.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd like to see our
surveillance equipment utilized in this capacity. I know
it's been utilized in the county for other reasons. I think
this is a good use of it, and I think that if we can get a
few cases, it may go a long way to slowing down this problem.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have the capability
of setting the surveillance equipment up in the park?
MR. GARCIA: Yes, we do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can those cameras follow
those dogs around? (Laughter.)
MR. GARCIA: They can do that too.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be a busy fellow.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Going to be more than one
camera out there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many trash barrels do
you have out at Flat Rock Lake Park now?
MR. BOLLIER: Three.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they're 55-gallon
drums, basically?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. There's one down by the
boat ramp, there's one down by the big tree area, then
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there's one down at the old boat ramp.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under normal circumstances,
how frequently do your people empty those trash barrels?
MR. BOLLIER: We pick those trash barrels up every
Monday, and we check those barrels every day. But, mainly,
we have to really empty them on Monday mornings. And the one
down by the -- the one down by the concrete boat ramp, we
have to check that, and usually dump it usually once every
day.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you recommending?
MR. BOLLIER: At this point, I really don't know
what to recommend, Commissioner. I don't want to put any
more trash cans down there, because if I put more trash cans
down there, that just gives them more places to dump trash.
So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we -- you get
with Mr. Garcia and set up the surveillance and see what we
can -- see what can happen as a result of that.
MR. BOLLIER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we'll talk about it
when we bring the dog poo issue back up again.
MR. BOLLIER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hey, Tim?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is -- I'm not real familiar,
s-12-os
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but I think -- is the park not gated to where it disallows
vehicle traffic during the week? Or is it open for vehicle
traffic all in that circular area?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's open all the time,
Commissioner, except at night. I think they close --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, could we take and
restrict that -- restrict that to pedestrian traffic only?
And place those trash cans farther into the park, and not --
not have this problem where people just can just drive by and
throw your trash.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good idea.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be -- that may be
something to look at. You also have the problem, I think you
got some barrels down where the fishermen go put their boats
in; is that correct?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have any problems
down there, or is that pretty well contained?
MR. BOLLIER: They take -- that trash can sits
there; that's usually the first one that they fill up. But
it's not caused by the fishermen. I mean, it's caused by
just people dumping illegal trash there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Probably the most accessible barrel
for them to just drive right up to.
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MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Unload, fill it up, leave.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You have more chance of
catching somebody with one location where your vehicle
traffic is, and you won't have to worry about it if it's
pedestrian only.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like that idea of keeping the
park locked weekends, so that -- you know, pedestrian traffic
only, and move the barrels fairly far in. That would solve
-- may solve a lot of the problem.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then there will be plenty of
space for the dog feces.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Per your suggestion, let's
try that, Tim. Move the barrels to a different location, and
keep the -- keep the gate bar across the driveway so that
they limit vehicular traffic in that.
MR. BOLLIER: Do you want to do this just on the
weekends, though?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what you were
suggesting? No, all the time.
MR. BOLLIER: All the time.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm thinking we ought to try
it all the time and see what happens.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If people want to use the
park, there's plenty of places to park, and they can get out
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of their vehicle and take their picnic with them or whatever.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any action to be offered?
You got some direction, okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just directions.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me see if we can't knock
out some of the these Road and Bridge items right quick.
We'll move to Item 8, to consider, discuss, take appropriate
action for final plat of A-OK Storage located in Precinct 2.
MR. ODOM: The preliminary plat for this commercial
property was approved by the Court on April the 28th. Since
no drainage study is required and no roads were built, it's
ready for final plat approval, and ask the Court's approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the final
plat for A-OK Storage.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Located in Precinct 2.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move
to Item 9; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to
approve final plat of Scenic Hills Summit East, and located
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MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is a two-lot subdivision
done under the alternate plat process. Property was sold to
Mr. McBroom by metes and bounds under the exemption 1.03.C
for lots over 10 acres on an existing road. A11 requirements
have been met. Therefore, I recommend the plat be accepted
as presented.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: At the recommendation of the
Road Administrator, I move for approval of the agenda item.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move
to Item 10; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action
concerning the concept plan to relocate Wilson Ranch Road
around Mo Ranch located in Precinct 4.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Bruce Motheral is here and
will represent Mo Ranch with any questions on this concept.
Mo Ranch has agreed to build a new road around their campus
and relocate Wilson Road -- Wilson Ranch Road, a
County-maintained road. Enclosed in your backup, you will
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find a map showing the new location. When Mo Ranch has
completed the new road, Kerr County would accept the new road
for maintenance and abandon, vacate, and discontinue the old
road through their property. For those -- I'm sure
everybody's been out there. This is a -- something that's
been agreed to a long time, when I first came here. It's
finally being done. And the location is safer for the
children and for the adults that are in there when you have
to go through their complex. The concept -- I was talking to
Bruce. I have no problems, other than they're going in the
old entrance right there. My question is, why we could not
enter separately to the side off 1340? And I don't have an
answer to that, other than I'm in agreement with going around
and coming back. Unfortunately, they do not have any more
property to swing out the other side of the road. It's by
that narrow bridge, is where we're going to come out at, but
that's a whole lot better than the present situation. It's
safer. It will facilitate the movement of traffic in and
out. There's not much traffic at this time on Wilson Road,
so I think it's a very good move. But I would like for Bruce
to answer that question, why we couldn't go out to 1340 if
that land is available, as far as Road and bridge is
concerned.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When you and I visited out
there, I think we walked a lot of that area, and, you know,
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we were hoping that this road could go in more of a direct
route and tie into Wilson Creek Road to Wilson Ranch Road.
And there, the canyon's just too deep; the slopes are too
great. It's cost-prohibitive to do that. This is the only
way that really is feasible.
JUDGE TINLEY: In your opinion, this is as good as
it's going to get?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not going to get any
better. I don't know of any way to get it any better, unless
-- unless the Wilson family had another way to get to their
property. That's about the only -- and there aren't many
choices to that, other than somehow going through Kerr
Wildlife Area.
MR. ODOM: The only thing is -- is, like I say,
that we did discuss at that point was that as you enter into
their -- their gated area there, if we could swing back down
1340, then I think that would make the traffic separate,
'cause you got two lanes of traffic, or two separate entities
trying to enter that narrow area, and I think if we move
over, the people that need to go Wilson Road could follow
around, and those going to Mo Ranch would continue to use
that entrance.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The main usage of that road
is going to be Mo Ranch.
MR. ODOM: Main usage is going to be Mo Ranch.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The Wilson family -- you
know, very -- very few members of that family now use that
road all the time, daily. Some of them -- I think there's
one -- one group that -- maybe two of them that live out
there. But --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Everything in blue is a new
road, right?
MR. ODOM: Everything in blue is a new road. And
that -- that way, you basically have the loop where you have
access to the camp off of those -- off that loop, inward.
And, basically, it's just to kind of go around. It's a -- it
really will help on the safety issue, because of all the
people that are in there. And, you know, you get guests or
whatever going through there that are trying to get to Wilson
Ranch, that's kind of a safety issue, and I believe that this
is -- I don't know what else we can do. We walked the whole
thing and looked at all the options, and this is the only one
that looked like it made any sense and that was not
cost-prohibitive.
JUDGE TINLEY: You don't think there's a viable
option of having a separate entrance road?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I really don't think there's
that much traffic. I think it basically says Wilson family
this way, and anybody else that needs to access the camp,
that they pretty well have it marked off all the way around.
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I don't think there's a better option. I mean, it would be
great if you could make a separate entrance, but I really
don't think, with no more traffic than there is or probably
will be for many years to come, that it's going to make that
much difference.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these planned for paved
roads? Paved roads?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, they'll be built to
county standards, and we'll maintain it when it's done, just
like we're doing now. But we're not paying for it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. That's a good
thing. Good thing.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think what I'm hearing
from Leonard is, as a concept plan, he's suggesting that the
Court approve it, with a proviso that this be investigated to
see if there can be an option added for a separate access.
Is that what I'm hearing?
MR. ODOM: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That will be -- we don't need
a motion for that, do we? This is just a concept? Or we
need to make a motion to that effect?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Probably do a motion.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I move that we approve
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the agenda item, concept plan to relocate Wilson Ranch Road
around Mo Ranch, and for them to continue to try and -- and
acquire a separate access.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I second it, with a comment.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question
or discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The comment is, I was a
commissioner out there years ago, probably 20 years ago, and
I tried something similar to this and could not pull it off.
Bruce, go get it. This is -- this is an extreme safety
issue.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's been that way.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's been that way forever.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if we can get that
public road out of the middle of all those people, that's --
it's unbelievable. But it was -- it was just really
difficult, and I couldn't pull it off, but I'm proud of you.
I'm behind you 100 percent.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'll also make it easier for
us to maintain it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely.
MR. ODOM: Whole lot easier without our equipment
going through, jeopardizing safety.
JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on
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the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's
quickly go to Item 11.
(Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Consider, discuss, take appropriate
action to name a private road per 911 guidelines, located in
Precinct 4.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. This is an unnamed road
located off Furr Road in Precinct 4, which is off Goat Creek
Cutoff. It meets 911 guidelines, and the homeowners want it
to be named Cheddy Lane.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's take
about a 15-minute recess.
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(Recess taken from 10:37 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We
were in recess. Let's return to item 12. That one was left
open, that being consider, discuss, take appropriate action
concerning amendment of plat for Privilege Creek lots
numbered 2 through 11. Mr. Jackson, you have something
further on that?
MR. JACKSON: Thank you, Your Honor. I've talked
to several -- Rex and I just visited, and then I just had a
conversation with Mike about a couple of probable changes
that I should propose to the master. The amended's fine, but
the master does a couple of things that are probably not
consistent with what Kerr County would like to do. And I
understand that, and I just need to report that to Kendall.
The first is, I think we're all having trouble with the word
"restricted," and I'd like to take the words "restricted
access" off. I'm looking for it; it's on here someplace.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's on --
MR. JACKSON: It may actually be on the amended.
JUDGE TINLEY: It is on the amended.
MR. JACKSON: And just go back to private. I
understand there's issues with the County Surveyor, and Mike
has pointed out that that language may not -- may be -- I
think one of the members of the Court even said, "What does
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And the concern ls,
what does that -- it shouldn't be that Kerr County officials
can't get in and out or whatever. And, to me, it's all just
verbiage, and so I'd like to amend what my proposal is to
delete that part. And I think the word is on the amended.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, under Item 8.
MR. JACKSON: Item 8 says they are to be private
restricted access roads. We will change that per Kerr's
request to be private roads, strike the words "restricted
access." Is that right, Mike? Okay. That's what Lee
Voelkel is suggesting. In that same vein, ~n ~~~~ .7 d1LLC
notion, the master plan, according to the settlement
agreement, has an EMS and fire station. It's about midway
through Boerne Falls, and it shows that Turkey Knob at that
point, which is Lane Valley extension, is a private street.
And after having talked to Rex and conferring with Mike and
so forth, I think we don't want the gate to be shown, because
we don't want it to be a gated community at that point to get
to the fire station. It has to be public. We don't want to
have to go through a gate for emergency services. And, so,
knowing that we're going to have that EMS and fire station,
which is for the whole area, that's the whole idea, we want
that to be outside the gate.
Now, the rest of the subdivision may be private and
gated and all that as far as roads and so forth, but I want
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to take off of the master plat that's part of your record
that reference to a gate. We'll locate that later. And I
want you to -- I want to make the change that private street
for Turkey Knob Road would be changed to public outside the
green part.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right. So, you were
talking about amendments to Number 8. Are you also talking
about an amendment to Number 9?
MR. JACKSON: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No?
MR. JACKSON: I don't think so. It stays the same.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: That Boerne Falls Ranch is a private,
gated subdivision; it's just a question of how it's gated and
how we all enter. I know from a lot of the work I've done in
this county, I now realize that having public emergency
vehicles have access to a site where you have particularly a
fire station or EMS station, you want to be sure you get
there. You don't want to have to be driving through gates,
and I've just got to make that correction in our dealing with
Kendall County.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: So, with those two corrections, which
I would make part of the record and give to the clerk, I'd
ask you to approve the amended with that wording change, and
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approve the master plat.
i JUDGE TINLEY: And the gate which is shown in
the --
MR. JACKSON: Lower.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- right-hand lower corner --
MR. JACKSON: It stays.
JUDGE TINLEY: That one stays?
MR. JACKSON: It stays, because that's more of a
Kendall issue about having a gate going into Kendall County.
I know that's important to Kendall County.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're talking about the
one --
MR. JACKSON: At the other end.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- up in the upper left?
MR. JACKSON: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: You want to delete?
MR. JACKSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz, is this
one of those issues you're not voting?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's correct, I'm not voting
or speaking.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move for approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval as indicated, with the corrections as requested and
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modifications as requested. Further question or discussion
on that motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Oehler voted
in favor of the motion.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let the
the discussion or the voting. We'll now move to Item 5;
MR. BOLLIER: Okay. I put this on here because I
have found a problem out in the front yard, off the front
steps here where our sidewalk goes out to the front. It goes
between those two oak trees, and the roots are pushing that
sidewalk up. And, you know, I have thought about taking --
ripping out the old sidewalk, coming in there, digging around
the roots, putting sand around there and building that up,
and then reinforcing that with concrete and pouring more
concrete, but how long that will last before the roots push
that back up, I have no idea. I mean, I don't -- I don't
know that. So, my recommendation -- my recommendation was to
try to redirect that sidewalk, and I came up with an idea. I
mean, it's just an idea, and that's all it is. And, I mean,
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I'm up for any kind of idea to just try to -- try to redirect
that sidewalk around those trees and from the middle of those
I roots.
JUDGE TINLEY: Tim, this is a -- just one element
of the larger --
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- plan that we've discussed putting
together with regard to the entire courthouse grounds;
drainage, electrical, conduit issues, irrigation and so
forth, correct?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir. And -- well, my idea is, I
really need to get this sidewalk in place before I go any
further with, like, the -- like, upgrading my sprinkler
system, irrigation part of it. So that way, I know I can go
ahead and put sleeves underneath there, and that sidewalk is
there, and then I can go ahead and redirect my -- my
sprinkler systems and -- and my electrical conduit that's
going through there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I met with Tim the other day
for a little while about this. Leonard came over talking
about what to do with some of this driveway area that's
deteriorated pretty badly out here. And one of the ideas we
came up with on the -- on the front sidewalk was to take and
split that off, to make it go both over to the west area, as
well as coming over this way and kind of looping it through
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those trees where you eliminate your root problem, and then
blocking that off in the front, putting some hedge there or
something, and then maybe do some real improvement to that
little area where we have various functions. But, basically,
block the direct access and just divert it around either side
of the hedge, and it would eliminate the tree root problem.
If you don't do that, you're going to have a tree root
problem from now on. And it just doesn't make any sense
to -- to spend money on something that's not going to kind of
cure the problem for the long-term.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where's your little drawing?
MR. BOLLIER: Got it right here, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, is that a private deal?
MR. BOLLIER: Well, I didn't make copies for
everyone.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That'll do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The guy stands up there and
wants something, and he's not willing to share. God.
MR. BOLLIER: Well, I knew it was going to come
out, Commissioner Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe it's a secret plan.
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it?
MR. BOLLIER: No, sir. No, sir.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Anyway --
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JUDGE TINLEY: Good news is, it will -- it will get
rid of the tree root problem. The bad news is, folks will be
walking around and then having to come back in in order to
get to the main front --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think they can come either
way, be able to go and access to the west or be able to go
and access around to the east side, and they can still just
come and go right in the front door. So, you know, you'll
have all the options, but you still -- you eliminate one of
the ongoing problems. It is not going to be solved by going
back where it is now.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other option -- I've talked
to Tim about it. We've looked, and this -- and I think the
phasing -- I've been working with him a lot on what needs to
be done when, and this is clearly one of the first things
that has to be decided. This option would certainly work,
going around. Another option, to keep the access there, may
be -- and I say "may," 'cause I don't know if it would work
or not -- is to -- not necessarily a bridge, but suspend that
section through using Trex or something like that, and not
having anything anchored to the ground over those tree root
problems. You may be able to go -- Trex is a fiberglass or
plastic type substitute; looks really good for patios and
things, and you can make a walkway out of that. Because the
actual -- Bruce and Tim are -- and I agree totally, that
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putting concrete back in that same location, that concrete is
not going to work long-term. There may be some other options
of bridging that area, which is probably about 20, 30 feet
that you got to cross.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then you have a problem with
maintenance underneath the area, I would think.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, it's -- you
know, moving the sidewalk around, as long as it doesn't --
looking at Tim's drawing, I think it probably works the best.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's no roots out --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You go in between the trees,
get away from them.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You go pretty far outside
where the roots are.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the only problem with
this thing is we're asking people to walk off out in the
pasture to get to the front door.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're going to have to walk
an extra eight or ten steps on either side.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we would --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the wellness program
at work. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The man's thinking quick on his
feet, isn't he?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. That was good.
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Now, what if they have their dogs on a leash? Off a leash?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And their gloves on.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Are you talking about
abandoning the straight sidewalk that comes in -- straight
in?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, just -- just the section
that accesses the circular part. Just where the -- where the
problem is with the roots. You still use it, but veer it off
on either side.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're bending the 20 -- or
about 20 to 30 foot closest to where the asphalt starts, that
area.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what are we -- I
agree, let's do it. What are we supposed to do? Is there a
court order, or is there a head nod or what?
JUDGE TINLEY: The Auditor wants to be on the
construction crew, I think.
MS. HARGIS: No, I don't want to be on the
construction crew. But, you know, I'd really like to have
the site plan of everything we want to do before we -- to
make sure we have enough money before we start redirecting,
just to make sure that we have sufficient funds to take --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not an issue, no. We
don't have to have the whole plan done to do what the initial
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needs are, and then go from there with an overall plan that
addresses what needs to be done first. That has been a
problem for a long time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, everything else that
that's going to do is contingent on where the sidewalk's
going to be.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The sidewalk is going to be
there no matter what.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I do agree we need to
get this done, and then the master plan needs to hit the
table or whatever.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Funding issues.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's done -- and I've
been working with Tim a little bit on some of the
specifications for some of the parts of it, and, you know, to
me, there may be a limit as to how far you go on this -- this
part of it, which is the sod -- sod and some of the
irrigation work, to where you stop that, and flower beds.
That's where you cut at the end. If you start getting tied
up with some of these things, like the -- and the electrical
just flat has to be done. And then after that, you go to
the -- the things that Maintenance can do on a more, I guess,
annual basis if we don't have enough funds for it. But,
clearly, the electrical, which is a safety issue, and the
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sidewalk, which is safety and just has to be done. I just
think we have to keep in mind that as we're doing these, this
portion, put sleeves in place and do things of that nature to
make the electrical and irrigation and things of that nature
more easy to accomplish.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not talking about a lot
of money for this.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wouldn't think so.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I just think you probably
ought to get two or three bids on it, see what -- what it is,
and let's make a decision and move forward.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fine with me.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that your motion?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move that we authorize the
Maintenance Department, Tim Bollier, to go out and get bids
for concrete work for -- for the redirection of two sidewalks
in the front of the courthouse.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion on that motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It should be noted that
these -- it is not anticipated that these are going to be
over $25,000, so we're not talking about that formal bid
process. We're just talking about calling up and getting
bids.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Estimates. Getting
estimates.
JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney?
MR. EMERSON: Only thing I would caution in this,
'cause I have no involvement -- take it for what it's worth,
but if the total project you're looking at is 525,000 or
more, you can't piece it out in segments to avoid the total
bid process.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Even if it drags forward into
more than one year?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think, in talking with Tim,
my recommendation is -- with him is that a large portion of
it be done in-house. And I said that I'd be glad to, you
know, advise on that part, and just -- you know, I think the
electrical -- it's one project, but then again, to me, it
isn't one project. I really don't know how you can bid the
whole project, 'cause, I mean, it's not -- there's an
electrical component. There's a landscaping component and
then there's sidewalk and stuff. I mean, under the logic of
there has to be a master plan, well, then you have to add the
gazebo in on it, because this is all -- every time. We've
got to draw a line as to what we're talking about, in my
mind. I don't think we're trying to circumvent the bidding
rules at all. I think the landscape portion of the thing,
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sod and all that, if it's not done in-house, that will have
to be bid. But I really don't see landscaping different than
doing sidewalks.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much of this work can
we do in-house?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nice try.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think if there's -- if the
Sheriff can free up some trustees, or -- and/or we have some
community service workers, I think a large -- the landscaping
portion can almost all be done in-house. I think we have the
equipment in the Maintenance Department out at the Ag Barn,
or certainly at Road and Bridge for some skid steer things.
The -- it can be -- I can lay it out. You know, that can be
done in-house. The only thing that can't, in my mind, be
done in-house is the electrical part of it, or some of the
electrical part. A lot of electrical can probably be done
in-house, but some of the electrical and, obviously, that
kind of construction cannot be done. And I think you have to
look at, you know, the landscape planning. I don't know how
you -- I don't know if you include the in-house part, but if
you start looking at that, you got to go back and include all
the tree trimming we've done this year. It's all one project
that we're looking at of upgrading the courthouse yard. And,
you know --
25 ~ JUDGE TINLEY: We don't know what that project is
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really going to be.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't have a clue, so we do
one step at a time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Looks to me --
JUDGE TINLEY: Only thing we know we want do is do
the redirection of this sidewalk. Otherwise, how could we do
anything? Where does that leave us, Mr. County Attorney?
MR. EMERSON: Without more details, I couldn't tell
you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're only talking about --
MR. EMERSON: It's a fact determination issue, and
it just depends on what your plan includes.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess we don't really have
a total plan. What we're going to do is one project at a
time under normal maintenance, basically.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All you're talking about right
now is fixing up a sidewalk, a maintenance issue. Not
talking about anything else, so why would it go any farther?
(Low-voice discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If that's the case, we
couldn't have done anything around here. For an annual
budgeting process, --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I view it as a maintenance
issue.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- I'm not even sure I know
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what we do on a normal basis. Anything under 25,000, we'd go
out, get a couple prices, move forward.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, the only reason -- only
reason that I told him to put it on the agenda, only reason
is we're moving the location of a sidewalk. If it was just
replacing it where it is, I don't think it even needs to come
to the Court, but it's talking about changing the location to
get rid of those -- or to get around the roots, so that's why
it's here, in my mind.
MS. HARGIS: Another question, are you planning to
do this out of your regular budget, or are you planning to do
this out of the loan proceeds? If he's planning to do it out
of the loan proceeds, it's a capital project.
JUDGE TINLEY: Based upon the -- the type of
improvement, I think it's going to be a capital item. Now,
if he was patching a piece of that sidewalk, that obviously
would be a maintenance issue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what are we saying? We
need to go to bid on the entire project, and not pieces of
the project? Is that what I'm hearing?
MS. HARGIS: I'm going to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Somebody tell me what I'm
hearing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess if we're going to --
the intent has always been to do a lot of this in-house,
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which I don't know how you bid an in-house project.
MR. EMERSON: I don't know the capital side, the
finance end, so that's up to Jeannie.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we authorize that for
her to do whatever she's directed to do. That's the way I
see it. It's not that she has the option to tell us how
we're going to do it or how much it's going to cost.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Within the law.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just my thought. May
be a bad one. We authorize the expenditure of funds, do we
not?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do. Let's do it. I
think, you know, if we get anywhere near $25,000, we need to
cease and desist and get some kind of authority to tell us
who we are and why we're doing it and all that stuff. But
right now, let's rock and roll.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you have a motion on the table?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: And a second, for Mr. Bollier to go
get some bids on replacing a portion of a sidewalk.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any further question or
3 discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion,
1 signify by raising your right hand.
~ (The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to
Item 6; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to obtain
permission to proceed before pouring concrete for the
maintenance shop and Fair Association storeroom at the Hill
Country Youth Exhibit Center.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Exact same issue.
JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty much, it would seem. Is this
all the concrete we're going to pour out there? Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Today.
JUDGE TINLEY: Get a zipper.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's under 25 also.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One's I4 and one's 17.
JUDGE TINLEY: Are there any definite plans of
pouring more concrete out there in that barn?
MR. BOLLIER: There should be down the line, but
for the -- for the 4-H and their concession stand and
bathrooms.
JUDGE TINLEY: But that's going to be all their
stuff, isn't it?
MR. BOLLIER: That will be all their stuff. And as
far as I know, this is all that I'm supposed to -- this is
all that I'm supposed to be doing out there.
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JUDGE TINLEY: So, the concrete the County's going
to pay for out there in that barn, this is it?
MR. BOLLIER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval. No, we've
got to decide which one we want.
JUDGE TINLEY: No, we're not going to give you the
money. Next question? Come forward. Twenty-five words or
less, three-syllable maximum. Name and address.
MR. SNOW: For the record, my name is Billy Snow,
760 Johnson Drive, Kerrville. I'm here representing the 4-H
Horse Club, and our concern on that item that y'all just
hurriedly ran through is that this also ties in with possibly
one other -- relocating our 4-H horse club arena, that we're
-- we're concerned on the plan and who has to foot the bill.
We've been told that in order to relocate the arena, that was
-- we were in agreement to work with the Court and committee,
but that that was going to require replacing restrooms and
our concession stands in doing so, and that comes under
concrete that's needed in the west end of that barn in order
to relocate where y'all have indicated that the arena would
be relocated.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That comes under a later
agenda item, and also, we're not concreting that area that
we're thinking in the future will be the restroom and
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concession stand area. That is being left out because of not
having the plan drawn for that area, 'cause that requires a
lot of plumbing. This does not include that area. This is
only for -- for maintenance, and possibly for Fair
Association, and other storage for possibly community
service.
MR. SNOW: Is there a master plan that we can be
shown, Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You will have that whenever
we get it developed, but we do not have it at the moment.
We're talking about this one item of having a maintenance
shop and storage for Fair Association, and another small
area. It has nothing to do with moving the 4-H around.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What we're talking about is
another agenda item.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's coming later.
MR. SNOW: All right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what we're going to
talk about in the later agenda.
MR. SNOW: I'll hold my questions till then, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's about 6:30 tonight.
(Laughter.)
MR. WALSTON: Is that -- let me clarify what I'm
not understanding, 'cause I understood that that part of the
i concrete was going to be costed -- was going to be charged to
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the 4-H, or we were going to have to pay for it. We're not?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Totally wrong. Totally
incorrect.
MR. WALSTON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Paul, do you want to wait for
the next item?
AUDIENCE: Does the Hill Country District Junior
Livestock Show have storage in that -- in this plan?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not in that building, no.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not in this building.
AUDIENCE: It did when we talked -- when you came
to the board that night, you said that we would have a
portion of storage in there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, there could be.
AUDIENCE: We have our container back there, but
it's stocked. It's -- you know, it's full, and we're losing
stuff on a daily basis out there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From the container?
AUDIENCE: No, not from the container, but through
the facility, because we don't have enough places to store
anything.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The storage for the Stock Show
Association is addressed in the other agenda item, in the
master plan.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This doesn't have anything to
do with that.
AUDIENCE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This particular building and
this concrete.
JUDGE TINLEY: Where are we?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The only thing that I see
wrong with this deal, doing it at this point, is that we do
not have a written agreement with the Fair Association that
they're going to reimburse the cost or pay for this when it
happens. And a large part of this -- about possibly $6,000
of this money would be -- would be spent for the Fair
Association on their behalf until we be reimbursed. I feel
like we need to get a letter from them guaranteeing that they
will reimburse for this. It all needs to be poured at one
time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a much better way to do
~ it. But, at the same time, I do believe we need to have
something in writing from them that says that they are going
L to pay for that.
~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I think they either pay
3 for that portion or they don't get a place -- they don't get
4 the use of the space.
5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, that's another way.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there needs to be
some sort of a letter of understanding.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd be in favor of -- I think
we -- I don't want to wait on them.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If Maintenance is ready to go,
I think we just send them a letter and say you pay or you're
not going to use it. It's that simple. They can do
something else.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll designate it for some
other purpose. But that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've indicated a
willingness to do that?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They will. They're just
trying to acquire grant money to pay for it. They have --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Trying to acquire grant
money?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have not acquired that
yet.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a whole different
horse of a different color.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They have, I know for a fact,
made application to Peterson Foundation for the money. I did
talk to Brian Oehler the other day. He called to ask me
questions about what they were wanting to do, and so he
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But not really. I mean, the
thing -- (Laughter.) What we're talking about -- all right,
you know, it's real simple.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's the murkiest --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not talking about
spending lots of county money. The later plan will be done
with grant money, or it just won't be done.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see, yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whichever way you look at
it, this is expenditure of county funds.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's -- this is something
that is independent of the -- Item 17.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does the bidding law --
let's say that we're going to do a large project, and some of
that money comes from grants. Does that -- do you add that
in and include it? Does that count toward the bidding law,
the 25 grand?
MR. EMERSON: Let me give you this analogy.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. EMERSON: You decide that you're going to build
a house, and you take the first part of your money and you
throw up the roof and the four walls, and you stay under
l 25,000. Then you come back three months later and you put in
> the plumbing, and then you come back three months later and
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you put in the electricity. It's all part of the same
project.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I'm asking.
MR. EMERSON: When you piecemeal it --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of see that here on
this issue. I don't on the sidewalk.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, I see it different.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see it as a -- you buy a
piece of land and you build a workshop on that property, and
then maybe in three, four years, you decide to build a house.
Those are two independent projects.
MR. EMERSON: But you're not building a workshop.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, we are. Yeah, we are.
MR. EMERSON: You put in concrete -- I forgot how
many months ago, what the dollar amount was, but you put in
concrete on, say, the right side of the building, and now
you're talking about putting in concrete on the left side of
the building. It's the same building. There's not that much
time frame in there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other one was done by a
private entity, 4-H, or public -- private --
MR. EMERSON: If it's not public money, that's
I fine.
~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's not public money,
5-12-08
104
1 that's fine. That answers my question.
MR. EMERSON: If you're spending the taxpayers'
2
3 money, you need to make sure you adhere to the bid
4 requirements.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that answers my
5
6 question.
~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was -- it was county money;
g Bruce corrected me on that. It was done, you know, with 4-H.
g The 4-H portion of that was they're going -- they're paying
10 for everything above the concrete.
11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we have two bids, but
12 maybe we need to reauthorize them and go about it the proper
13 way.
14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we bid -- the first one, we
15 bid; we put out for bid.
16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, the first one formally.
1~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're having to bid this as
18 a separate -- this is really -- it's -- it may be part of the
19 same thing as a whole, but it's a separate project. But it
20 still has to be bid. The first one was bid. This one has
21 been bid, but maybe not the way we should have approached it.
MR. EMERSON: If you want to piecemeal it like
22
23 that, then you need to follow the bid procedures on each
24 individual piece.
25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not a problem.
MR. EMERSON: Can't be informal bid procedures.
You need to follow the statute.
MR. BOLLIER: That's what we've been doing.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, we didn't authorize that
to be done. We just got prices to get an idea what it was
going to cost.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what we need to do is
authorize to go out for bid.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For specification of what was
bid here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that do it?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Resubmit bids and set a time
' to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Every step we take now, we
~ just go out for bids, and that satisfies the -- heck, yeah.
~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's do it the right way.
1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Heck, yeah.
2 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nobody wants to do it the
3 wrong way. I've already been involved in something -- I'm --
4 you know, I should be the one that takes the lead on this.
5 JUDGE TINLEY: You had you some of that, didn't
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I had a --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You should be the
whistle-blower, right?
JUDGE TINLEY: So, then, the motion should be that
we authorize Mr. Bollier to proceed to solicit bids for this
-- this project.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And advertise appropriately
in the paper.
JUDGE TINLEY: Under the appropriate bidding
statutes.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: For 4,400 square feet of
concrete work to be done at the Ag Barn within the pavilion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's nothing else that we
can include in that advertisement at this point?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know of anything,
'cause everything else we can -- we can do in-house. All we
got to -- you know, it's a very minor bit of welding and put
up some tin and put some doors in.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Actually, this will give
you time to get the Fair Association thing nailed down.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to put a time frame
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on this?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bid under the current
requirements.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Time frame's there. I have a motion
and a second as indicated to go out for formal bids in
connection with the bidding procedures. Question or
discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Let's go to
Item 7; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve
submitting AACOG Solid Waste grant application to apply for
grant money to purchase one police package vehicle for the
Environmental Health Department.
MR. GARCIA: We're going to apply for Category 2
3
~ again. We applied last year for Category 2 under the Solid
Waste grant. I think everybody has seen the pictures from
1 this past Friday except for Commissioner Letz, and I just
2 want to -- look at the tabbed yellow there, sir.
3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I haven't seen it either.
4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think everybody needs to go
5 look at this to show how you do not haul salvage materials to
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San Antonio.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, those are pictures we
saw the other day? Oh my gosh.
JUDGE TINLEY: This is the official Kerr County
solid waste hauler?
MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's running on a prayer.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I want an 8-by-10 glossy of
that one.
JUDGE TINLEY: County Attorney has --
MR. EMERSON: I just have one quick question.
Since this is an Environmental Control vehicle, is it going
to have a little plastic bag dispenser on it? (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He needs one of those giant
magnets that comes on a crane to take care of this one.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All of a sudden, he's
become a stand-up comic.
MR. GARCIA: We can do that.
~ COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you ought to pass
those around. There's some people in here that will be
1 interested to see those.
2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ray, I have a question of
3 you. Last time we -- or maybe it wasn't the last time, but
4 on a prior occasion when we filed for some -- probably an
5 application for consideration of a Solid Waste grant, one of
5-12-08
109
1 the problems was that we didn't have a full-time Solid Waste
2 officer. That no longer is the problem; is that correct?
3 MR. GARCIA: Yes, sir.
4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
5 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All we need is an
6 authorization to apply for some grant money.
~ JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I so move.
10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
12 JUDGE TINLEY: That includes me signing the
13 application? I assume that he needs me to sign it.
14 MR. GARCIA: Sir?
15 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that the Judge sign the
16 application.
1~ MR. GARCIA: I'll bring that up to you.
18 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Motion made and seconded as
19 indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
20 favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
22 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
23 (No response.)
24 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to
25 Item 13; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to
5-12-08
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1 approve proclamation declaring May National Historical
2 Preservation Month. Commissioner Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir. I would
3
q like to quickly read the proclamation. Whereas, historic
5 preservation is an effective tool for managing growth,
6 revitalizing neighborhoods, fostering local pride, and
7 maintaining community character while enhancing livability;
8 and whereas, historic preservation is relevant for
g communities across the nation, both urban and rural, and for
10 Americans of all ages, all walks of life, and all ethnic
11 backgrounds; and whereas, it is important to celebrate the
12 role of history in our lives and the contributions made by
13 dedicated individuals in helping to preserve the tangible
14 aspects of the heritage that has been -- that has shaped us
15 as a people; and whereas, quote, "This Place Matters",
16 unquote, is the theme for National Preservation Month 2008,
17 co-sponsored by the Kerr County Historical Commission and the
18 National Trust for Historic Preservation; therefore, be it
19 resolved that the Kerr County Commissioners Court does
20 proclaim May 2008 as National Historic Preservation Month,
21 and call upon the people of Kerr County to join their fellow
22 citizens across the United States and the fruited plains in
23 recognizing and participating in this special observance.
24 May 12, 2008, Commissioners Court.
25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
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JUDGE TINLEY: You moved adoption --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- of the proclamation?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a motion, I'm
sorry.
JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and second for
adoption of the proclamation. Question or discussion on the
motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 14,
consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding
participation in Energy Management Services Assistance
through the State Energy Conservation Office. I put this on
the agenda pursuant to an invitation by the State Energy
Conservation Office. They will send their analyst over here
at no cost to us to talk about things that we might do to
save energy. And this could go hand-in-hand with the pending
issue we got on our windows too, I would think.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a great start, I'll
tell you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move
to Item 15; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on
acquiring laptop computers for members of Commissioners
Court, and installation of necessary computer cabling in
Commissioners Courtroom to permit members of Court to
participate in electronic budgeting process, and utilization
of computers by members of the Court for Commissioners Court
proceedings, administrative, judicial, and other appropriate
applications. I put this item on the agenda by virtue of our
new budgeting process that is -- is going to be used for the
first time this year. It's going to be all electronic.
There's been considerable training on it already. It's the
Incode system, part of our financial package that we've got a
significant investment in. Everybody's going to submit their
requests electronically. They're going to be reviewed
electronically. They're going to be studied, discussed.
There's not going to be any of those piles and piles of
paper. And if we're going to be effective in being able to
5-12-08
113
1 know what's going on, we probably need a way to see what
2 we're dealing with as we go through the multiple workshops
3 and as we finalize things on the budget. And then,
4 subsequent to that, possibly down the road, we can go
5 paperless on our agenda and other incidental needs that can
6 be used for official business purposes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Possibly down the road?
g JUDGE TINLEY: Well, down the road. That could be
g this afternoon.
10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did they come in?
11 MR. TROLINGER: I checked the loading dock. No,
12 they're not here. (Laughter.)
13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it's a good idea,
14 Judge. It's long overdue.
15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the only question
16 is -- and I've got to -- I got to confess, I don't see as
17 good as I used to. The size of the screen is becoming more
lg and more important to me, so I think that that is -- that may
19 be the only debate, far as I'm concerned.
20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that; I think
21 Option 2 is a better option.
JUDGE TINLEY: The other thing is, on -- on
22
23 budgeting and spreadsheets, I'm concerned about, with the
24 smaller screen, getting some cutoff on either end, whereas
25 with the larger one, you can -- you can get a full view of
5-12-08
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1 the -- of the numbers that you can clearly read and make sure
2 that you got it all the way from left to right.
3 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, the 17-inch option is a wide
4 screen, so that makes it better for spreadsheet viewing.
5 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Which, essentially, our
6 budget is, wouldn't you think?
7 MR. TROLINGER: Yes, it is.
8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Has somebody looked at Incode
g on that 17-inch screen and made sure that 17 is adequate
10 before we buy these laptops?
11 MS. HARGIS: No, we haven't.
12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be --
13 MR. TROLINGER: Everyone that uses the financial
14 system now has a 17-inch or larger screen.
15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's the "or larger" is what
16 worries me. 17's? Okay?
17 MR. TROLINGER: 17 is standard.
MS. HARGIS: 17 should be wide enough, save and
18
19 except if we add the additional four columns for each one of
20 the Commissioners. But I still think we can have it in a
21 font that you can read, that'll be sufficient, 'cause we want
22 to give you the availability of being able to put your
23 numbers in as well.
24 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. HARGIS: Everybody will have the opportunity to
25
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1 put their own numbers in, beyond recommendations, each one of
2 you.
3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 17 or larger. What is "or
4 larger"?
5 MS. HARGIS: Do we got 19's?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes. 19-inch is not -- is not
6
7 reasonably available in the laptop itself, but there's an
8 external possibility -- external monitor possible, external
g 19-inch monitors.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll go with 17.
10
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Buster, I have a personal
11
12 17-inch laptop --
13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- that does anything in the
15 world that I want to do.
16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right.
17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And even when I'm taking off
18 my glasses and can't read up close.
19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Still see it? I have a
20 17-inch screen in my office right now, and -- and I can look
21 at Excel spreadsheets and understand them and read them.
22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I don't have any problem
23 with my 17-inch.
24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, our budget has how many
25 columns?
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MS. HARGIS: Well, it's going to be a little bit
different. We'll have -- let's see. We'll show at least
three prior years, probably four prior years, then department
requested and amount requested. We're going to be probably
looking at eight columns.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: May end up having to slide it
up.
MS. HARGIS: Yeah, may have to slide it. You may
have to take the old stuff out to be able to see the new
stuff. But, you know, we've got a bar at the bottom to just
slide it over, but mostly you'll be concerned about the new.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That includes the column
that we mess everything up with -- or, I mean, work with?
MS. HARGIS: Well, I think you -- you know, each of
you will have your recommendations that way. You will
clearly know what those are. And the availability of being
able to do -- once you decide on something, we'll lock it
down that day. We'll certainly speed up our budget process.
~ I think you'll see it's much faster to process.
~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you sure we need a
L column for us to -- I'm going to plug in a number and you're
going to plug in another number and you're going to plug in
3 another number, as a recommendation?
4 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the -- it was indicated to me
5 that they wanted more ability for the members of the Court to
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1 be more active in this thing from the get-go, as it were.
2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can understand us
3 sitting here like we are today and kind of agree on a number,
4 and all of us plug it in at that time. But I don't want to
5 have a different recommendation than you do. I don't.
6 JUDGE TINLEY: You might want to.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No, I don't.
7
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want y'all to go first, and
8
g I'll go last and then mine takes priority. (Laughter.)
10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's different, see.
11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That did it right there.
12 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just not going to
13 work.
14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. All right, just
15 cancel the whole thing.
16 MR. TROLINGER: The District Clerk had a great
17 idea. There needs to be a computer here at the podium for
18 the presenter.
MS. HARGIS: Yes. And with an overhead projector
19
20 for y'all to see it, would be the ideal situation.
21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
22 MR. TROLINGER: For that particular scenario.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think it's only fair
23
24 that whatever we're doing up there, the public has a right to
25 view as well, and I surely don't mind going away from the
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paper, and I know Jody won't mind not having to put all the
stuff together. And, you know, we throw away this paper and
have it recycled nowadays, but it's still a waste of time
and --
MS. HARGIS: If I could make a suggestion, as we
show you the training process, then the four of you can
decide how you -- exactly how you want to do it, and that's
the way we'll design it. How's that?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are some of us --
JUDGE TINLEY: Are we talking about an additional
computer for the podium?
MS. HARGIS: Yeah.
MS. PIEPER: There would be a good one for the
court deputy, too. She could be doing her court orders as
well during the court proceedings.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She doesn't want it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, is there a -- I mean, for
up here, it makes sense for us to have laptops if we're going
to have our agenda that we can work with. But these other
'. ones, couldn't you just have a screen and a -- and a keyboard
3 that would give access, or does it make more sense to have
~ more laptops?
MR. TROLINGER: It makes sense for the presenter to
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have a separate laptop. And the County Clerk's already --
already has a laptop that's available for the clerk.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why does it make sense for
the presenter in any scenario other than budget?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I'm not even sure
of then.
Point --
MS. HARGIS: Well, some presenters have Power
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Someone's going to have a
screen to talk to us about dog feces in the park? I don't
think so.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To show Rex's drawing.
MS. HARGIS: No, but there are some presenters that
would like to present you Power Points. For instance, the
people that came with 911, remember, they had the Power Point
presentation. It would be nice to have that available to
presenters, because --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They need the hookup here, but
you don't necessarily need a laptop here, 'cause most
presenters will bring their own laptop with the program.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do like that idea.
MS. HARGIS: But during the budget, I'll need to
be -- to be able to put that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just have it wired so that
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you can do a Power Point, and you bring your own laptop and
you bring your own disk and you bring your own dealy. We'll
provide a screen.
MS. UECKER: I thought you were talking about the
budget process. Isn't that what this is for?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This, though, is to discuss
wiring us for the budget process, and whatever's input into
your system for your budget will show up here.
MS. UECKER: Exactly, just for the -- but now we're
all following some other presentation. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we're talking about
buying -- authorizing buying the computers.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know if we're going
to buy five or six.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We need another one for there.
That's six versus five.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then you're going to have to
have at least a monitor, if not two, mounted for the audience
to be able to see.
MS. HARGIS: I think one. If we're going to have a
screen, I think we'd have to put it up there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you need to go back
and put together a plan for us, Option A and B, and then
present it to us at the next meeting.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the -- well, I think
we can accomplish it today. What are we really -- if we're
on Option 2, which is -- which is the 17-inch screen versus
the 15.4, we know what those numbers are. The only thing
we're talking about differently is having -- while you're
wiring this podium, you're wiring that one too, so somebody
can have a laptop there, their own laptop. That's just a --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're talking about not
purchasing a laptop there?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Somebody else may be talking
about purchasing one, though. See, we really haven't gotten
to that yet.
MS. HARGIS: Ken, do you think --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm with you.
MR. RUARK: 17-inch should be plenty. What I --
just as a thought, what I would do is have your five
computers which John's suggested here, and then a screen to
-- for somebody to see. Your computers then also could be
connected to display whatever you want it to on that screen
at that point in time, so if somebody came in with a
presenter and had their own laptop and wanted to do a Power
Point presentation, everybody could see it up there, and
that's what I would limit it to.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're saying the same
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thing.
MR. RUARK: I think so, but a 17-inch screen is
probably wide enough as a laptop to do with Incode. When we
get far enough down the road with that, depending on how you
want it to set up and how you want to see it, we may need a
little bit of customization to Incode if you want to see --
each Commissioner and the Judge wants to see their own
recommended budgets on a report and/or in a format that's
side-by-side-by-side. We can show that in multiple reports,
okay, but we can't show it in one report right now, if that
makes sense to you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we can approve everything
today except the thing up on the wall?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, we can. So, that
would be Option 2, right?
MS. HARGIS: Well, you have a screen. But I think
if he's going to wire it, he probably needs to go ahead and
wire --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're talking about having
something permanent. That screen wouldn't be permanent. We
need something mounted on the wall.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need a pull-down screen.
MR. RUARK: Either that, or just a monitor. You
can just mount a television up there, basically, as a
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monitor, and have a direct -- so it goes up there however --
however John decides. That's another option.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we need to come back
with that option later. Let's get the process started.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to go over
$25,000?
JUDGE TINLEY: No. No.
MS. HARGIS: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not there yet.
MS. HARGIS: No.
MR. TROLINGER: Well, we are talking now in excess
of $10,000 to do all that, rough estimate.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, you've got, what, 72 with
that?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: 7250, then plus your wiring cost.
Does that include the wiring cost?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got 8295 with wiring.
MR. TROLINGER: 8295 plus wiring, plus a screen,
plus the capability to switch between all those computers is
fairly expensive.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This isn't part of the master
plan of the courthouse lawn, is it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's getting there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Turn on the sprinklers with them.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what are you talking
about with this number, 10,000?
MR. TROLINGER: I jotted down $10,500 as my rough
estimate.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you are going to bid
this?
JUDGE TINLEY: He's already done a lot of
scrambling for cost.
MR. TROLINGER: I don't know where the -- exactly
what budget item it is coming from, though. That is a good
point.
MS. HARGIS: We have surplus money in the loan to
more than cover this.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, this does apply --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the agenda
item under Option 2, as discussed, to provide the extra
wiring and a monitor for purposes of the public viewing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Option 2 is 17-inch
laptops.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five of them for the Court.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For an amount not to exceed
$10,500.
JUDGE TINLEY: Including the switch where you can
switch back and forth?
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir, based on his
estimate.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the money coming from
for this?
MS. HARGIS: Coming from the loan.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Capital item. Excess funds in I.T.
Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He got a second, didn't he?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, we got a second. Motion made
and seconded as indicated. Further question or discussion?
All in favor of the motion -- I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question. Will they be here
tomorrow? Will they be here in a timely fashion so that we
can start working with our budget?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And installed? The answer
should be yes.
MR. TROLINGER: When is the first budget workshop?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's confidential
information, son. (Laughter.) We don't release that to
people that office in the back.
JUDGE TINLEY: Near the loading dock.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Near the loading dock.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In a place without windows.
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MR. TROLINGER: I don't have an answer.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Other than "yes"?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "Yes" is the answer.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: "Yes" is the answer.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 16; consider,
discuss, --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We haven't voted on it yet.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- take appropriate action to
initiate RFP process
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We didn't vote on it.
THE CLERK: Judge, we need a vote.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, I'm sorry. I have a motion and
a second. Further question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Trying to torpedo this
thing, isn't he?
JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay, now we'11 go
to Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
initiate the RFP process to hire project administrator and
engineer for pending 2008 Texas Community Development Block
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Grant Colonia Fund project.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That should go on to say,
Judge, for Kerrville South Phase IV, Kerrville South
Wastewater Project. We're closing in on obtaining our
contract from O.R.C.A. for Phase IV of the Kerrville South
project. I believe we applied for half a million dollars,
and best I can tell is, we're approved for that. And this is
a requirement to move us along. We need to go back out with
an RFP for project administration services and for
engineering services. I move the approval --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- for initiating an RFP
for that purpose.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
(Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.)
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll now go to Item 17; consider,
discuss, take appropriate action to approve parameters for
appropriate design project at Hill Country Youth Exhibit
Center. Commissioner Letz.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda at the
request of Peter Lewis, who's doing the design work for us
at -- the master plan at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit
Center. And we talked about it on several occasions, but he
really requests that we give him some more specific
guidelines as to sizes of things that we, you know, hope to
get, and uses and things of that nature. And I wrote this
down. This is not, you know, necessarily --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we have this?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Should be in your box, yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead, I'll find it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be helpful if -- it
looks like this.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've seen it. I got it
here someplace; it's just a matter of finding it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've got Jody making some
copies.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got it, thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the -- I'll start -- I'll
read through it while we're waiting on some more copies. The
proposed plan for the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center.
Build new show barn and exhibit barn. Build a new exhibit
hall. Remodel current indoor arena and shed area. Most
likely remove current exhibit hall. Remove current hog
barns. Build outdoor -- or new outdoor rodeo -- should say
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arena, not area -- on side of property, and remove older
outdoor arena. Build new covered area for horse stalls that
would accommodate 20 stalls. Remodel covered barn for use of
4-H projects, Fair Association, and storage. And then
provide improved parking, outdoor lighting, and signage.
Below that, there's a -- the current facilities and
the size of those facilities. The exhibit hall currently is
10,400 square feet. The hog barn 1 would be 10,400 square
feet, and hog barn 2, 10,400 square feet. Those are the two
sections that are back there. The indoor arena is 45,000
square feet. The shed area is 13,750 square feet. And then
the covered barn is 18,000 square feet. Below that, under
the proposed facilities, it's leaving the indoor arena, the
shed area, the covered barn, new barn. We had talked also
about another 150-by-300 foot building; that's 45,000 square
feet. Exhibit hall, we have not talked as much about that on
the details. I put down 30,000 square feet. And then I put
some requirements. The new barn requirements: Concrete
floor, free span construction, area for auction and sales,
limited HVAC, capable of providing more exhibit space for
stock show, capable of multi-use, then a concession stand.
(Commissioner Baldwin returned to court.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then the new exhibit hall
requirements are: Capable of hosting 1,000 persons per meal,
catering kitchen, HVAC, dividing into smaller classrooms, not
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directly connected to animal barns, capable of multi-use, and
adequate	storage.	And	then	behind there	is a	plat	of	the
current	facility.	The	idea	is that, you	know,	if	we'	re all
in agreement on this -- or we can make any changes to it and
give it to Peter Lewis so this is what he is working on, his
parameters as to -- and figure out where these things best
fit. This is not saying we're going through on these. This
is just more of a -- you know, a site plan where you would
put these buildings, and this is the sizes that we would like
to get. And then the next step would be, when Peter Lewis
comes back with a site plan, go out to the various -- and he
may be talking to someone along the way, but going out at
that point to Stock Show Association, the horse folks, 4-H,
and get input on, does it work from their standpoint? You
know, this is not setting anything -- this is not approving a
plan. This is just saying this is what we want to have
happen out there, and give him some really explicit marching
orders on his design.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like what you've speed
out. I'm just curious about the size. I know you've looked
at it very carefully with respect to the hog barns and the Ag
Barn, what it needs to be to do what we want it to do, and
that's all fine. I'm just wondering whether or not, to
accomplish what we -- in that one of the goals would be to be
able to have a function there where 1,000 people would be
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seated for a meal, whether 30,000 is the right number, or
whether it needs to be a little larger.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's really why I think
almost more important than the sizes I wrote are the
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, that's fine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I think it's up to Peter
Lewis to come back and say, "Hey, to do that, we can't do it
in this size," and it may be the same with the new barn.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a good answer.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I think it's an
important point that if we're going to have a -- in the new
barn area, the concept of having an auction area and have
increased space for exhibits, the 45,000 square feet may not
be big enough, you know. 'Cause, you know, currently it's
now 30,000, what we have in the hog barn, exhibit hall.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But what will happen, though,
with this plan, if we go with enlarging the hog barn, like I
think we've talked about doing, and concreting that area,
that will be a multi-use area that now is really only able to
be used for one thing, and that's during stock show time for
a hog barn, or for a sale or something like that. If we can
have that to where you have portable pens that can be taken
out when it's not being used for animals, it can be used for
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132
a lot of things.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And flushed out and cleaned
up.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It can be cleaned up and
utilized for a lot of functions during the year. You can
have trade shows; you can have antique shows, various things.
There's just a multitude of uses. If you have a covered
concrete area, and just having that and making it big enough
to accommodate the amount of animals that we're getting,
which is increasing every year in the stock show, you know, I
think it's a good thing. I think it's something that we're
going to have to -- we have not had the ability to use
before.
~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think one of the things
that -- well, Peter Lewis has asked for this, is that so far,
he's done a lot of research. I mean, there's -- obviously,
what we do out there is going to have a huge impact
electrically and sewage-wise and water-wise out there. We
have a well out there. What he's been doing up to now is
he's located everything, all the easements and how everything
fits. What he's getting ready to start doing is so he can
start placing buildings and minimize the projected cost, and
at the same time, it may be cheaper to move a major sewer
line or some electrical service rather than put a building
here, or -- you know, he'll decide what's the best thing to
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do, but he needs to do the components pretty -- you know, at
this point. And then he'll come back in a month or so with
a --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And this drawing just
depicts what's there now, correct?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all it is.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like it. We're on the
right track. What do you want to do?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- or mainly, if the
requirements are adequate, we can go ahead and approve it.
If we need to add anything, it would be a good time to do it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, he's going to look at
our requirements, and he'll make decisions on square footage.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, fine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the proposed
plan for Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center dated May 12,
2008, and we'll forward it to Mr. Peter Lewis, our design
consultant, for incorporation of this in the design work.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 18;
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to develop
comprehensive protocol regarding access to Kerr County
financial and confidential employee personal information. I
put this on the agenda. As -- as we started working with the
financial software packages that have come into being, and
the packages that have the personal information regarding our
employees, there come about certain issues with regard to
access. And, number one, I'm concerned about liability
issues. If we don't have a protocol in place and there is
access by persons who should not have access, and we don't
have a protocol that says, "Thou shalt not," I think our
liability position is -- is much weaker.
And, secondly, I think we need to clearly know and
delineate who should have access, and that can be read-only
or it can be modification or entry, or maybe some on a
certain portion of it, some on another portion of it. But I
think we clearly need to get this delineated in a
comprehensive protocol that all of the parties that utilize
this information have gotten together around the table and
have discussed the various needs and the legalities relative
to each other, and have delineated this protocol. What I'm
suggesting is that the people that deal with this
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information -- that would be the Auditor, the H.R. Director,
and the Treasurer -- that those people necessarily have to
deal with it and have access to it to some degree or another.
Obviously, our I.T. Manager has to have access to it, so that
in the event there's any fixes that have to be made, he's
able to do so. And then I think, insofar as putting together
the language, I'm going to see if we can draft the County
Attorney, to get him involved in that also. I noticed a
slight smile on his face. I don't know whether that was one
of glee or one of, "Oops, I got caught again." The latter?
MR. EMERSON: I knew it was coming.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, I'm glad you
anticipated that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that mean he has
access?
JUDGE TINLEY: He wouldn't necessarily have to have
access, but he would help in the drafting of the protocol.
And with regard to the legal issues involving
confidentiality, we got some HIPAA issues, we got some other
issues, we got insurance issues. There are a lot of things
that are going to come into play here, but we need to get it
A, B, C.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it secure enough? You're
saying that it's -- number one, it's not secure enough, all
that information?
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JUDGE TINLEY: No, I'm not saying it's not secure
enough. What I'm concerned about is if there is an
allegation made that -- that someone had access to that
information or got access to that information that should not
have, and it caused damage or injury to an employee. For
example, if we have a protocol put together that we have
directed everybody that utilizes that information to follow
specifically, after it's developed and in place, I think,
from a liability standpoint, our position is much, much
stronger.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
JUDGE TINLEY: If something occurs outside of that
policy.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I don't disagree
with what you're saying. I think it's probably quite
necessary, but let me ask a corollary question, maybe through
you to the County Attorney. What would happen in the case
where an employee of Kerr County, or someone who, for
whatever reason, had access to confidential-type information,
particularly an employee, or -- or things of that nature, and
they violated this policy and went in and got that
information and distributed it to others, the result being
identity theft for somebody. Where -- what does -- where
does that leave us? Do we have exposure? Do we have
liability if that were to happen?
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JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've got a lot more
liability if we don't have the protocol in place, because
that protocol is going to say, except as expressly set forth
in this protocol, nobody that has access to that information
should -- shall not disclose it to any third party except as
set forth herein. I think without the protocol, our
liability exposure is much, much greater.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right, and I
-- I would agree with that. I just want to be -- I just want
us to be aware that these things happen, and they could
happen to us. And somebody could come in here and say, "My
identity was stolen," the net result being whatever. And I
-- and we have been able to trace it back to Kerr County, and
that information was released fraudulently or whatever. I
just -- I'm just making a point to follow up on you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, once the individual is
determined that did that contrary to the terms of that
protocol, I think we'd be in a much better position to say
that was a personal act by this employee. We did what we
could to -- to put this protocol into place, to specifically
direct that that information should not be disclosed to
anybody.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's a step in the
right direction.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I'm -- in this whole
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area of who has access to what kind of information, which is
what you're kind of talking about with the protocol, are
there other departments -- and I'm thinking on the judicial
side or the District Clerk -- that have access to lots of
information that is not public, that they need to all be
included under the same type protocol?
MS. UECKER: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are y'all --
MS. UECKER: Can I answer that just a second?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MS. UECKER: I think we're going to have to be
very, very careful, because every -- almost every employee
right now has maybe some type of personal information within
judicial records. Those are -- that's all public
information, especially those that came -- were filed prior
to, say, two years ago. Now there's some debate going around
the state as to whether redaction -- should they redact or
shouldn't they? The law is very clear that judicial records
are not subject to the Open Records Act, nor does any clerk
have any authority to redact or withhold any information off
of a judicial record, and this includes birthdays and Social
Security numbers, without a court order to seal that file.
Now, I think we're going to have to be real careful when we
come up with this policy that those judicial records are
exempted, because my staff right now can disseminate any
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public information off of anybody that has a Social Security
number in -- in those judicial records.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Unless the Court orders it
sealed.
MS. DECKER: Unless there's a court order to seal
it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What about things like indigent
health care? I mean, we used to get lists of all that --
those things on the Court, and then someone deemed that we
didn't want those names on there 'cause that was all
confidential information. I just -- I mean, there's so much
stuff we deal with. If we're going to do a policy, we've got
to make sure we cover everything, because if you exclude some
or leave it out, then you're probably in worse shape.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we may have to have several
different policies, depending upon the specific records.
Obviously, I'm not contemplating that any of the judicial
information should fall under this. That's one of the
reasons I want the County Attorney involved in it, so that
the protocol can be crafted in a manner that is specific as
to this particular information. And we want to -- may want
to use that as a springboard to work on other particular
information. I would say that the -- it very well may be
that indigent health care is going to possibly fall under
that. You know, it's not confidential information as to an
s-iZ-os
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employee, but it's confidential information that comes into
the hands of our employees, because we see those bills on
some occasions. I don't think we do virtually, but that's
why I want the County Attorney involved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the HIPAA laws, they
come under the same umbrella as the -- whatever -- whatever
you were just talking about.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I guess you could try
something like everything coming under one umbrella except --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judicial.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- judicial stuff. Is there
other things that are like the judicial laws?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, actually, the agenda
item is styled for Kerr County's financial and confidential
employee personnel information, so it doesn't even get into
the legal arena.
MS. DECKER: Right. But I was just kind of
cautioning you, when you come up with a policy, to make sure
that those things are excluded, because I can't exclude them,
'cause the law doesn't allow me to without a court order from
a District Judge. And in Jannett's case, her misdemeanor
cases, same thing; she cannot redact any judicial information
off of even misdemeanors without a court order.
JUDGE TINLEY: Just merely put in an exclusion as
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to judicial records.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think this is really styled
to the point of who has access to what and when they have
access to it, and can they be shut out of things that they
need to do as part of their job?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, we have to be careful
about that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And I think we've had some
complaints of that going on with an individual blocking
access to other departments, and that needs to stop, and we
need a policy addressing that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, protocol --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's basically what it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Protocol would delineate it very
clearly.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're not relying upon memories or
interpretations of discussions or anything.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'll be able to tell who did
what, whenever. You know, whether they did it rightly or
wrongly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what we're talking
about is developing this protocol? We don't have it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You and the County Attorney
and others are going to get together to do this?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think the folks -- the one
that we're talking about, I think, is going to include I.T.,
H.R., Treasurer, Auditor, and then assisted by the County
Attorney. That's -- that's any my thinking. There may be
others that --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good start.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- fall under this umbrella.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It will also lead into the
other elected officials that are not judicial.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this is just kind of --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And department heads.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- giving marching orders, and
then it'll come back?
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah. We're -- we don't have a
protocol to even look at.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Need a motion or what?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, probably, to develop a
protocol.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that the Court
authorize the development of a comprehensive protocol
regarding access to Kerr County financial, confidential,
human resources -- and what others did you have there, Judge?
Is that enough?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Human resources and employee, yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And employee personal
information, and bring it back to the Court for study and
I action.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion? A11 in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: What's the pleasure of the Court?
Do you want to shut down at this point and --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We got a workshop at 1:30.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I know, but that may have
to -- we can either stack the rest of it on the back side of
the workshop, or -- or push it in and let the workshop be
pushed back a little bit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Someone in the audience is
jumping up and down.
MS. HYDE: I'm sorry.
JUDGE TINLEY: Bathroom's out here.
MS. HYDE: I know. I have another -- I have my
grandmother's memorial at 2:00 today, so if we can't get to
this, I'll have to back up. Mine was real simple on the TAC,
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but then I think they can present it for this. And I can --
if you don't mind, I can give you this if there needs to be
discussion about any monetary for the other one.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is it that you're
talking about?
MS. HYDE: Jannett and Diane.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd just as soon we pull
that and come back another day.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
COMMISSIONER LETZ: S
COMMISSIONER OEHLER:
You're hungry, right?
Yes, I am.
That is correct.
o, are we pulling 1.25? 1.26?
I think that's a very large
issue.
JUDGE TINLEY: 1.26 is not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 25 is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But why don't we deal with 1.26
before she leaves?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go ahead and move to
Item 26; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on the
enrollment or coverage options on Texas Association of
Counties worker's compensation self-insurance fund. I'm not
sure the question that you have is properly an executive
session item. I think we're looking at a category. Okay, go
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ahead.
MS. HYDE: I don't think it is. It's not, she said
earlier. All I want to do is give y'all copies of this for
the next Commissioners Court meeting and ask you to ponder
this question. Somehow, in the last six years, we had
changed the worker's compensation to include elected
officials to be covered under worker's comp. Prior to that,
it wasn't. We can find nothing that showed where it was
really discussed, and we think it might have been a checkmark
error, maybe. We don't know. But I'd just like to have it
where y'all can look it over. I've got the order from 1999
where you talked about the volunteer fire department, and I
think that might have been the intent, but I don't know; I
wasn't here. So, right now we're going to be on -- we're
doing worker's comp for elected officials, and I just want to
make sure that's what y'all want before we get ready to
checkmark this time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is -- what is the
issue?
MS. HYDE: We're paying for worker's comp for
elected officials.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Worker's comp?
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we should not be?
MS. HYDE: Well, it's the Court's decision, but I
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don't know -- we're unsure, 'cause I've been told for the
last year that they were exempt and they were not covered
under worker's comp. So -- so, I've been going under that
premise until we get the Court --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You check it?
MS. HYDE: And it's like -- we checked it, yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm curious to know what the
253 other counties are doing.
MS. HYDE: It's -- it's kind of split. It's about
50/50. Some do, some don't. Normally, the ones that
self-insure -- that are fully self-insured do not. So, I've
got a little packet that I'll give to y'all so you can ponder
it until the next Commissioners Court, if that's okay. And
so that way, Mindy and I will know what to do this year.
'Cause we'll get the contract in the next 30 to 60 days.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think the -- the good news/bad
news is, obviously, if coverage is on elected officials,
they've got coverage. The bad news is, they're already
exempt, so they're not hourly employees that normally apply
to worker's comp injury because they are exempt, and as a
result, our premium's being based on gross payroll.
MS. HYDE: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: It goes up by that amount.
MS. HYDE: Gross payroll. So, it's just a question
for y'all to think about, ponder, and then come to a
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're paying for something we
don't really need.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Might have been pretty good
in the days before the unit road system.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll tell you what my
question is going to be. Why in the hell does TAC allow it
to happen?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. They're supposed to be
on top of things like that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why isn't --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause they're in the
insurance business.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Jimmy John -- well, that
really makes it worse.
MS. HYDE: Well, in fairness --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why isn't our rep down here
beating on the door, saying, "Hey, you guys really don't need
to be doing this"? I know he's a friend of all of us, but
that question is going to come up.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Why would you not cover the
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elected officials on worker's comp?
JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause they're exempt employees.
They're going to get paid if, you know --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What about your --
~ JUDGE TINLEY: I'll give you the --
', SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What about your medical side?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Your medical. Say you have an
elected official that gets hurt on the job, okay, and has
medical bills. Worker's comp pays 100 percent of those
medical bills. Why would you have the employee and not the
elected officials? I'm not worried about the salary part of
it. It's the medical part of it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, medical is going to be a retro
charge back, anyway. And we're partially self-insured, and
if it turns out to be a major claim -- I can see where, if
there is no comp coverage, you'd therefore fall back under
your health plan, because it's going to say we exclude
coverage for anything that's covered by worker's comp. So,
if you're not covered by worker's comp, once it hits our
limits, we're dropping it in the lap of the stop loss
carrier.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the thing I'm concerned
about for those elected officials, our health insurance plan
does not cover the 100 percent that worker's comp covers. If
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you're injured on the job, you're still going to meet your
normal deductibles and everything else. And I think that
could be a pretty bad hindrance to an elected official that
does get injured on the job.
MS. DECKER: I'm wondering if that was not done
after the lawsuit where a previous elected official fell out
of a chair. It was about that time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right.
MS. DECKER: And sued the County for that portion.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right.
MS. HYDE: She lost, right?
MS. DECKER: Well, a jury -- yeah, a jury. But I
think there was a settlement or something.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There was no settlement.
MS. DECKER: There was no settlement?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: County won that deal.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought there was.
JUDGE TINLEY: No. They tried it. They went to
the mat.
MS. DECKER: It was a jury trial.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You notice only the bad boys
are concerned about this thing.
MS. DECKER: Well, the next jury might not find
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this same way. I mean, that's the point I'm trying to make.
MS. HYDE: And then the next question would be, but
aren't -- I mean, y'all have said this to me multiple times.
Elected officials are not actually employees of the county.
JUDGE TINLEY: They're officers.
MS. HYDE: They're officers of the county.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, but they're still
employees as far as retirement and everything else goes, and
I personally think that ought to be covered under it for
medical.
JUDGE TINLEY: I can understand why you'd think
I that .
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Because you're at greater risk, and
it's to your benefit to have that -- that deductible covered,
as opposed to have -- if it's a major claim, we have to eat
the whole thing up to $250,000, $500,000, whereas if it falls
under the health plan, once it hits the $50,000, boom, it
goes into the lap of the stop loss carrier, as opposed to
into our lap.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You need to look at the cost of
that coverage versus -- I mean, what's -- weigh it. What's
the cost of this additional -- basically, what is the
additional coverage for medical to the county and employee --
or elected official.
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MS. DECKER: One other comment, that having been
there during the trial -- you know, I'll go out on a limb and
say, had that been any other elected official, that the
outcome would have not been the same.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's probably right.
MS. DECKER: They did not like it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably true.
JUDGE TINLEY: At this point, Ms. Hyde, you're
merely wanting us to consider the information and approve it?
MS. HYDE: And y'all make a decision.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is the information?
MS. HYDE: I'm going to put little booklets
together for you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Deal with the health part
of it, too.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Medical part of it, too.
JUDGE TINLEY: The cost based upon the factor that
goes on the gross payroll and so forth.
MS. HYDE: Right. Right.
!, COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the bigger question
II~ is, is Buzzie's open on Monday?
~ JUDGE TINLEY: We're going to let you investigate
that, because I'm going to recess for lunch, and we'll be
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~ back at 1:30.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
(Recess taken from 12:20 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order. We
were in recess for lunch, and I understand, for the workshop
this afternoon, that a couple of the participants from TexDOT
are running a few minutes late, so hopefully that will give
us an opportunity to try and knock down the rest of our
agenda. The next item on the agenda is Number 19; consider,
discuss, and take appropriate action on proposed policy
requiring all Kerr County elected officials, department
heads, and employees to read and respond to e-mails received
on a timely basis, without necessity of prior communication
that such e-mail is being transmitted. I think the Court
probably has some recollection of the origin of that. The
end result of what I heard was, "If that's what the Court
directs me to do, I will do that." So, I'm not going to
leave anything to chance.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Motion made and seconded
for approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's look at
Number 20; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
approve the Interlocal Cooperation Agreement for Medical
Examiner Services between Travis County and Kerr County, and
allow County Judge to sign same. This was on the agenda --
they have reworked their contract. I have submitted it to
the County Attorney. There was one change he made. We have
interlined that change. Even though they said that's the
final draft, what we've interlined makes it our final draft,
and that's what I suggest we send to them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval, and authorize
County Judge to sign same.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You need a second?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I did.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry, I didn't hear you. We
have a motion and a second. Question or discussion on the
motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go
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to -- I'm going to defer on 21 for just a second. I ran into
someone that said they'd like to be here, but they were on
their way, hopefully in a few minutes. Consider -- 1.22;
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to declare the
old Animal Control van surplus.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're not using it. Nobody
seems to have any use for it. I move that we declare it
surplus and sell it with the other two vehicles that -- from
Environmental Health.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second the motion.
JUDGE TINLEY: Did I hear a second?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I have a motion and a second.
Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to
Item 23; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
approve tax collection contract with City of Ingram;
authorize County Judge to sign the same.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question
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or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion,
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move
to Item 24; consider and discuss contract with Tyler
Technologies. Ms. Bolin?
MS. BOLIN: Last year during the legislative
session, they passed a House Bill which affects some tax
offices and takes away some of the responsibility of the
appraisal districts. They've squared off all of the county
lines, so anyone who collects for overlapping county
jurisdictions or school districts, whatever, get their
information now from the appraisal district that does the
appraisals for that county. If I collected for Comfort ISD,
I would get something from Kendall ISD for the properties in
that county. I don't collect for any overlapping counties --
or any overlapping jurisdictions. Everything I collect for
is within Kerr County. The bill does not affect us.
However, Tyler Technology, in the original contract, stated
that one of their services was to update for legislative
mandates. Excuse me. This year, they have updated for this
House Bill 1010, which, as I said, has no effect on us. Now
they want us to send them the certified roll that I load to
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collect taxes to be converted by them at an additional cost
When I asked them about the fact that it did not
affect Kerr County, why couldn't I go ahead and load it as
we've done for years and years, they said absolutely not.
They've adjusted the system to where they have to do our
certified load, at $6,500. They are working it to where we
are going to be relying on them for nearly everything we do,
so the supplements that come in a couple of times a month,
sometimes three or four times a month from the appraisal
district for adjustments that are made, they want us to start
contracting with them to do those at an additional fee.
Everything that they currently do to help us, they want to
start charging for. I showed it to Rex. He wrote a letter
to Jim Adams, and as far as I know, he hasn't heard anything
back, and you all have copies of all of those.
I just wanted you to be aware, because of what
they're doing, they're -- I don't want them personally doing
the certified load, because when they balance things, if it's
within $10,000, they consider it balanced. We have always
balanced to the penny, and I have a real problem with that if
I'm the one responsible for the money, balancing something
that doesn't actually balance. And we went through it last
year and the year before, where they tried to say it
balances; you're just this much off. Well, if I'm $10,000
s-i2-os
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off, that's not balancing. So, now they've got it where we
have to let them do this load. Then that -- then I balance
back to the appraisal district; that tells you how much we're
going to get in levy. And they want to charge us for it, and
I just wanted y'all to know that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson?
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir?
JUDGE TINLEY: Is it your opinion that the contract
requires them to provide these matters that the Tax Assessor
has mentioned at no additional cost under the terms of their
existing contract?
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I guess a question I
have is, I know it doesn't affect you, but does Kendall
county use Tyler Technology? I mean, 'cause they do collect
in --
MS. BOLIN: They use True Automation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, here we have a system where
they're in Comfort I.S.D., but from a residence standpoint,
school taxes or not, they're still county residents. There's
already a problem between the appraisal districts talking.
Now we're going to have different software people going to be
doing the work for the appraisal district and through your
office? I mean, this is getting worse every time the
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Legislature gets involved with it, and there's no recourse
right now, I mean, of how you balance out or challenge, right
now, appraisals.
MS. BOLIN: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just another step
getting worse, because it's going to be taken out of the
County's hands and going into the --
MS. BOLIN: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- contractor's.
MS. BOLIN: They're taking it out of my hands, but
I'm still responsible. Plus they're charging us, which just
really irks me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the charge thing, Rex
answered that, and --
MS. BOLIN: So, for them to take this completely
out of our hands is just --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How do they have the ability to
take it out of our hands?
MS. BOLIN: They changed the program to where no --
none of us can use it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How can they do that, Rex? I
mean, they're --
MR. EMERSON: I think you better ask John, since
he's the I.T. guy.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, John, I mean, how is a
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contractor able to tell the County how we're going to do our
business?
MR. TROLINGER: The database changes have become so
complex that it requires a database administrator to make the
changes. It's their -- they need to comply with the law in
order to do it. They're having to jump through a lot of
hoops, and they're trying to distribute the cost. One of
those ways is by, say, probing the counties to see if they'll
pay. And we're saying no, it's part of the contract for
support right now. That's really the issue.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are all contractors doing this?
MS. BOLIN: Not to my knowledge.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just don't see how they can
assume a responsibility that's a county function without a
contract to do that function.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, John, in light of
what you said, how do you explain the thought that the County
Attorney advanced to -- to Mr. Adams of Tyler Technologies
that, quote, for the charges stated herein, which is an
excerpt of the contract, Tyler shall provide the following
software update and client services. Software updates,
enhancements include... blab, blab, blab, blab, blab. In
light of what you said, how do you equate that?
MR. TROLINGER: It's -- the statements's correct.
Software Group has to comply with the contract and provide us
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with those updates as part of our existing contract.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: You've received no response from the
Tyler Technologies people to your communication to them about
this issue?
MR. EMERSON: No, nothing verbal or in writing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we wait and see.
MS. BOLIN: Pretty much. I just wanted y'all aware
of the situation.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, ma'am.
MS. BOLIN: You're welcome.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 27; consider,
discuss, and take appropriate action to approve a new postage
machine contract with Pitney Bowes at the same government
rate as the last four years; authorize County Judge to sign
same. There's Ms. Pieper, okay.
MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, throughout the past years,
as far as I know, the clerk's always signed the agreement
with our postage machine. It dawned on me -- I think this is
a contract, and this is something I probably need to come to
y'all and have the Judge authorized to sign it. My contract
is up for renewal, and this is just a renewal, and it's going
to be the same rate that it has been for the last four years.
JUDGE TINLEY: Has it been reviewed by the County
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Attorney?
MS. PIEPER: Yes, it has.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval, and authorize
County Judge to sign.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's move
now to Item 21; consider, discuss, and take appropriate
action on implementation of the burn ban. I put this on the
agenda. It's the recurring 90-day rollover, isn't it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move that we -- well, you
moved it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I moved it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You moved?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, I'll second it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded per the
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agenda item. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. On Item 25,
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve
moving election duties to the Voter Registrar's office, and
one employee from County Clerk's office, Commissioner
Williams, I think you want some initial input on that?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. I'd like for the two
moving elected officials to agree to bring this back at the
next Commissioners Court meeting, 'cause it's going to
require a significant amount of discussion, and the room is
filling up and we're delaying a workshop. So, if you ladies
are nodding in accord, then I guess that's what we'll do.
MS. BOLIN: That's fine.
MS. PIEPER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any member of the Court have
anything further to offer on that item? Okay. Let's go to
Section 4 of the agenda, payment of the bills.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we pay our bills.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the
bills. Question or discussion on that motion? What happened
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to Pages 8 through 14?
MS. HARGIS: Well, since I wasn't here, that's
probably a good question. I think they're numbered 1. 7,
then 8, and then it didn't print. That's what it did. You
can barely see 10, and then the 11, the page numbers just
didn't show up.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mine goes from 7 to 15. I don't
know what everybody else's did.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We've got
some budget amendments, as shown on a summary sheet. They
are budget amendments or requests 1 through 15. Pretty
self-explanatory. Do I hear a motion that the budget
amendments as shown on the summary sheet 1 through 15 be
approved as presented?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
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motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have
any late bills? I've been presented with monthly reports for
Constable, Precinct Number l; Constable, Precinct Number 4;
Constable, Precinct Number 2; Justice of the Peace, Precinct
Number 3; Justice of the Peace, Precinct Number l; Justice of
the Peace, Precinct Number 4; Environmental Health; and
District Clerk. Do I hear a motion that those reports be
approved as presented?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the named reports as presented. Question or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we have
any reports from members of the Commissioners in connection
with their committee or liaison assignments?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One quickie, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The door-to-door survey
that the Court authorized for the Center Point/East Kerr
Wastewater Project is pretty close to completion. I think
the canvassing has picked up another about 100 additional
surveys that have been forwarded off to the Community
Resource Group in Austin. I've just asked them to do one or
two more streets in Center Point proper, just to be sure that
we've covered all the bases appropriately, so we should be
wrapping up pretty quickly. Secondly, for Commissioners 3
and 4, I had a phone call from a constituent on Saturday
afternoon, fellows, at the conclusion -- or the caller had
been to the roping at the Ag Barn. The particular caller was
wheelchair-bound, and she called to tell me that the access
to the handicapped restrooms in the Ag Barn was not available
for whatever reason; I don't know why they're not available.
So, I just pass that on to you for what it's worth.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We'll find out.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Anybody have
anything else?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one quick item, that
Commissioner Williams and I are continuing to work with
Councilmen Hamilton and Gross related to the airport. More
meetings scheduled later this month.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Is that it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are y'all playing nice?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Doing our best.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Some days.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you looking at me?
JUDGE TINLEY: Anybody want to come back and have
any more input on any of the items on our regular agenda? If
not, we will stand adjourned on that.
(Commissioners court adjourned at 1:50 p.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS I
COUNTY OF KERR I
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 19th day of May, 2008.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y : __ _ _1~w~C ---------------
Kathy nik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
5-12-08
ORDER NO. 30823
VARIANCE TO ON-SITE SEWAGE FACILITY RULES
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Grant a variance to Mr. Wiedenfeld to construct a system 1-1 /2 times greater than
the existing system in Class IV soil and the piping variance be extended from 70 to
93 feet and at such time as we receive a letter from Hill Country Telephone
agreeing to extend the sewer line in Phase 1 of the wastewater project, and if the
system that we have given a variance on fails, they will agree to extend that to
protect health and safety.
ORDER NO. 30824
A-OK STORAGE FINAL PLAT
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the final plat of A-OK Storage, located in Precinct 2.
ORDER NO. 30825
SCENIC HILLS SUMMIT EAST FINAL PLAT
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the final plat of Scenic Hills Summit East, located in Precinct 1.
ORDER NO. 30826
CONCEPT PLAN TO RELOCATE WILSON RANCH ROAD
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the concept plan to relocate Wilson Ranch Road around Mo-Ranch and
for them to continue to try and acquire a separate access, located in Precinct 4.
ORDER NO.30827
NAME A PRIVATE ROAD
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve naming a private road "Cheddy Lane", located in Precinct 4.
ORDER NO. 30828
AMENDMENT OF PLAT FOR PRIVILEGE CREEK, LOTS 2 THROUGH 11
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 3-0-1 to:
Approve the Plat for Privilege Creek, Lots 2 through 11 and on the Amendment, in
Item 8, to remove the words restricted access to private roads, and on the Master
Plat, to not show any gate reference to get to fire station and EMT.
ORDER NO.30829
PROPOSED CHANGES TO COURTHOUSE SQUARE
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Authorize the Maintenance Department, Tim Bollier, to get bids for the concrete
work for the redirection of the 2 sidewalks in the front of the courthouse.
ORDER NO.30830
CONCRETE FOR MAINTENANCE SHOP AND FAIR ASSOCIATION
STORAGE AT HILL COUNTRY YOUTH EXHIBIT CENTER
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Authorize Mr. Bollier to solicit bids for specifications and resubmit the bids for
4,400 sq. ft. of concrete work to be done at the pavilion at the Hill Country Youth
Exhibit Center.
ORDER NO. 30831
AACOG SOLID WASTE GRANT APPLICATION
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve submitting AACOG Solid Waste Grant Application to apply for grant
money to purchase one police package vehicle for the Environmental Health
Department, and authorize County Judge to sign same.
ORDER NO.30832
PROCLAMATION DECLARING MAY NATIONAL HISTORICAL
PRESERVATION MONTH
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Proclamation declaring May, 2008, National Historical Preservation
Month.
ORDER NO. 30833
ENERGY MANAGEMENT SERVICES/ASSISTANCE THROUGH STATE
ENERGY CONSERVATION OFFICE
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve participating in the Energy Management Services/Assistance through the
State Energy Conservation Office.
ORDER NO. 30834
LAPTOP COMPUTERS FOR COMMISSIONERS' COURT
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve acquiring laptop computers for members of Commissioners' Court and
installation of necessary computer cabling in Commissioners' Courtroom, and to
provide the extra wiring and monitor for public viewing, with the amount not to
exceed $10,500 and with the money to come from the capital outlay line item.
ORDER NO. 30835
RFP FOR PROJECT ADMINISTRATOR AND ENGINEER FOR 2008
TXCDBG COLONIA FUND PROJECT
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve initiating an RFP process to hire a project administrator and engineer for
pending 2008 Texas Community Development Block Grant (TxCDBG) Colonia
Fund project.
ORDER NO. 30836
PROPOSED DESIGN PROJECT AT HILL COUNTRY YOUTH EXHIBIT
CENTER
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve of the proposed plan for the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center dated
May 12, 2008, and forward to Peter Lewis, our design consultant, for incorporating
this in the design work.
ORDER NO. 30837
ACCESS TO KERB COUNTY FINANCIAL AND CONFIDENTIAL
EMPLOYEE PERSONAL INFORMATION
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Authorize the development of a comprehensive protocol regarding access to Kerr
County financial, confidential, Human Resources and employee personal
information, and bring it back to the court for study and action.
ORDER NO.3083 8
KERB COUNTY POLICY REGARDING RECEIPT AND RESPONSE TO E-
MAILS
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the policy requiring all Kerr County elected officials, department heads
and employees to read and respond to e-mails received on a timely basis, without
the necessity of prior communication that such e-mail is being transmitted.
ORDER NO. 30839
INTERLOCAL COOPERATION AGREEMENT FOR MEDICAL EXAMINER
SERVICES BETWEEN TRAVIS COUNTY AND KERR COUNTY
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Interlocal Cooperation Agreement for Medical Examiner Services
between Travis County and Kerr County, and authorize County Judge to sign
same.
ORDER NO. 30840
DECLARE ANIMAL CONTROL VAN AS SURPLUS
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Declare the old Animal Control van as surplus and sell it with the other 2 vehicles
from Environmental Health.
ORDER NO. 30841
TAX COLLECTION CONTRACT WITH CITY OF INGRAM
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Tax Collection Contract with the City of Ingram, and authorize the
County Judge to sign same.
ORDER NO. 30842
POSTAGE MACHINE CONTRACT WITH PITNEY BOWES
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the renewal of the Postage Machine Contract, for the County Clerk's
Office, with Pitney Bowes at the same government rate as the last 4 years, and
authorize the County Judge to sign same.
ORDER NO. 30843
IMPLEMENTATION OF BURN BAN
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve implementation of Burn Ban.
ORDER NO. 30844
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, came to be considered by the
Court various Commissioners Precincts, which said Claims and Accounts are:
Accounts Expense
10-General	$	256,625.69
14-Fire Protection	$	14,583.33
15-Road & Bridge	$	37,622.24
18-County Law Library	$	8,753.21
19-Public Library	$	36,972.25
28-Records Mgmt & Preservation	$	10,451.47
31-Parks	$	350.00
50-Indigent Health Care	$	39,192.34
76-Juv Detention Facility	$	6,928.23
77-LEOSE Funds	$	12,665.49
TOTAL
$ 424,144.25
Upon motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner
Williams, the Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to pay the claims and
accounts.
ORDER NO. 30845
BUDGET AMENDMENTS NOS. 1-15 FOR 5/12/2008
Came to be heard this the 12t" day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Budget Amendments as per the Summary presented.
ORDER NO. 30846
MONTHLY REPORTS
Came to be heard this the 12th day of May, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 the following monthly reports:
Constable Pct # 1
Constable Pct #4
Constable Pct #2
JP #3
JP # 1
JP #4
Environmental Health
District Clerk