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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Special Session
Monday, October 27, 2008
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT:. PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judqe
H.A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4

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I N D E X
October 27, 2008
PAGE
--- Commissioners' Comments 6
1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
	request by HCADRC to review contract with Kerr	
	County to provide mediation services in Kerr	
	County and for funding	8
1.2	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on	
	request for property tax exemption for	
	Kerrville Masonic Lodge #697, Kerrville,	
	and Rising Star Lodge #429, Center Point	11
1.3	Presentation from Pam Warner regarding "The	
	Big Fix Homeless Cat Project." Consider/discuss,	
	take appropriate action regarding endorsement of	
	trap/neuter/return to manage homeless cat	
	overpopulation in Kerr County; initiate review	
	of animal control ordinance to support same.........	13
1.4	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to	
	authorize County Auditor to prepare annual	
	audits for ESD #1 and ESD #2 pursuant to	
	Health and Safety Code Section 775.082 ..............	41
1.5	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to	
	approve Central Counting Station personnel	
	pursuant to Chapter 27 TEC ..........................	52
1.6	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action	
	regarding update on 2008 tax statements .............	53
1.7	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to	
	acknowledge receipt of quarterly investment	
	report from Patterson and Associates for	
	quarter ending 9-30-08 ..............................	56
1.8	Consider/discuss, adopt 2008-2009 Kerr County	
	Community Plan for submission to Alamo Area	
	Council of Governments ..............................	57
1.9	Consider/discuss update on personnel policy	
	and procedure manual by Human Resources Dept........	59
1.10	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to	
	approve or disapprove a Kerr Central Appraisal	
	District budget amendment to add to building	
	reserve account for costs related to potential	
	building, renovation, or other modifications	
	deemed necessary, such account to be funded with	
	surplus funds left over from Appraisal District's	
	2007 operating budget ...............................	71
1.12	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to	
	approve revised proposal for engineering services	
	from L. Wayne Wells, P.E . ..........................	73
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3
I N D E X (Continued)
October 27, 2008
1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate .action to
authorize issuance of a Request for Proposals
for mass notification services; advertise same
as required .........................................
1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
grant a variance to Kerr County Flood Prevention
Order for a home in Westwood Oaks, Pct. 4...........
1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
request from National Wild. Turkey Federation to
be added to the nonprofit list for Hill Country
Youth Exhibit Center ................................
1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
abandon, vacate, and discontinue 21.20 acre
portion of land from recorded plat of Comanche
Caves Ranch, Pct. 4; set public hearing for
Monday, December 8, 2008 at 10 a.m ..................
1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve bond for Leonard Odom, Jr ...................
1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve contracts with Kerr Economic Development
Foundation, Big Brothers and Sisters, Comfort VFD,
Elm Pass VFD, Turtle Creek VFD, Center Point VFD, &
Castle Lake VFD; allow County Judge to sign same....
1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
honor request from Texas Association for Home
Care to declare November 2008, as Home Care and
Hospice Month in Kerr County ........................
1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
request from Mr. Jerry Elzner to adopt a
resolution proclaiming October as Czech
Heritage Month in Kerr County .......................
1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
collect mental health court costs from Maverick
County .............................. ...............
1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
pursue environmental health enforcement on
property located at 170 Center Point River
Road East ..........................................
1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
proposed site plan for Hill Country Youth
Exhibit Center and surrounding property............
1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
rescind Court Order #30940 giving notice to the
City of Kerrville for the cancellation of our
interlocal cooperation agreement for regulation
of subdivisions within the city of Kerrville's
extraterritorial jurisdiction (ETJ) ................
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	I N D E X (Continued)	
	October 27, 2008	
		PAGE
1.23	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on	
	giving notice to City of Kerrville on	
	cancellation of the ETJ agreement ..................	137
1.24	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action	
	regarding correcting one employee in the	
	position schedule and their annual payroll	
	for FY 08-09 ......................................	139
1.26	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to	
	rescind Court Order #31049 which approved the	
	rules regarding format of ESD #1 and ESD #2	
	audits and reports .................................	140
1.27	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to	
	designate a committee to review and evaluate	
	courthouse windows bids or proposals and make	
	recommendations to Commissioners' Court............	140
4.1	Pay Bills	142
4.2	Budget Amendment s	---
4.3	Late Bills	150
4.4	Approve and Accept Monthly Reports	157
', 5.1	Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee	
	Assignments	157
5.2	Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads	162
---	Adjourned	165
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5
On Monday, October 27, 2008, at 9:00 a.m., a special
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in
the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings. were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the
Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this
date and time, Monday, October the 27th, 2008, at 9 a.m. It
is that time now. Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: .Yes, sir. Would you rise
for a word of prayer, followed by the pledge of allegiance?
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, if there's any member
of the public or the audience that wishes to be heard on any
matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to come
forward at this time and tell us what's on your mind. If you
wish to be heard on an agenda item, there are some
participation forms at the back of the room. We'd ask that
you fill one of those out and get it up here to us. Primary
purpose of that is to make sure that I won't miss you when
that item comes up, and make sure that you get the
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opportunity to be heard. If you happen not to fill out a
participation form, but we get to an agenda item that you
want to be heard on, get my attention in some manner, and
I'll see that you have that opportunity to be heard on that
item. But right now, if there's any member of the audience
here or the public that wishes to be heard on any matter that
is not a listed agenda item, come forward at this time and
tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one coming forward,
we'll move on. Commissioner Baldwin, do you have anything
for us this morning?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sir, I do not. Thank you
for asking.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir, not yet.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just two little items. One, I
!, thought it was interesting -- I won't editorialize what I
think about it, but I thought it was interesting, the
candidate forum League of Women Voters had the other day.
There were nine different people that were in contested races
that spoke, and some of them were district wide; they weren't
all local. Out of the nine that spoke, six were not from
Texas. They moved here for one reason or another. I thought
that was rather interesting. And the other thing, how about
those Longhorns?
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about that?
(Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How about Tech?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got a little messy out
there on that field for a while.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all right; they came
'~ out .
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? Is that it,
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I have to report that
we have lost the governor of Hunt. We lost the mayor here a
while back. The governor, who is Owen Crenshaw, passed away
Saturday, and there will be services for him at Grimes at
2 o'clock on Thursday. So, anyway, I just wanted to pass
that on, but have his family and all in our prayers and our
thoughts. And he did a lot of things for a lot of people,
and especially participated in the Hunt Fire Department and
the Hunt group, and cooking barbecue for almost every
organization under the sun, and he will be missed. So, with
that, that's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. As most of you
know., the Kerr County Fair was this past weekend, a three-day
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event Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. And far as I know,
everything went off well, and appreciate everybody's
participation in that event. I think -- I think it was well
received, and .hopefully we'll be able to continue that event
on an annual basis. Let's get on with our agenda, if we
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on request by
the Hill Country Alternate Dispute Resolution Center to
review contract with Kerr County and provide mediation
services in Kerr County, and for funding. Mr. Ed Reaves.
Good morning, sir.
MR. REAVES: Good morning, Your Honor,
Commissioners. Once a year we come to ask you to renew our
contract to provide mediation services. As you know, every
time a lawsuit is filed, there's a little bit that goes into
an A.D.R. fund that helps to make mediation affordable for
everybody in Kerr County. Overall, in 2007, we did 149
cases. This year, we're averaging about almost 14, so we're
looking at about 165 cases this year. Last year we were very
fortunate to have a settlement rate of some 88 percent, which
was -- actually, almost 87 percent, which was up from the
year before. And that's due to fantastic volunteers we have.
We have such a rich resource in particularly retired talent
here in Kerr County who generously provide their time for us.
There was $15,000 budgeted for A.D.R. for the renewal of our
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contract, and as of last week, there was over 18,000 in the
account. So, are there -= are there any questions, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have one, Ed.
MR. REAVES: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you know I'm a huge fan
of your program.
MR. REAVES: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: However, asking for
funding -- the budget's already one month old. Are you
kidding me?
MR. REAVES: Oh.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm joking. I'm assuming
that we roll the money over and --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's in there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that is a dedicated account by
virtue of courts costs, payments that are made, something
that we've adopted that goes in there, and by law it
accumulates in a segregated fund for which it can be used for
that purpose. Have you reviewed the contract, Mr. Emerson?
MR. .EMERSON: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: And-it's in order? It's essentially
a rollover contract we've approved in previous years?
MR. EMERSON: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Alb right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll move for approval.
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.COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval as indicated. Question or discussion on the motion?
All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Reaves, we appreciate your work.
MR. REAVES: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: This settlement rate, I think, is
pretty much in line with national and state averages, and
essentially what that says is that out of ten cases that are
filed, only one of those ten approximately ends up having to
be heard by the courts. And as most of us know, our courts
are pretty well jammed up; they're jammed up everywhere. So,
it's a wonderful service. Plus, when -- when the parties
themselves to an action can fabricate their own resolution,
they tend to be a little bit happier with the outcome than
sometimes what judges handle. I've had the personal
experience of -- of doing that, and having neither side very
happy about what I did, so I know from experience that it's
better if the parties themselves can do their own -- do their
own resolution.
MR. REAVES: Thank you so much, Your Honor.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate your
work. Let's move then to Item 2, another item for 9 o'clock
time frame. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action on
.request for property tax exemption for Kerrville Masonic
Lodge Number 697 in Kerrville, and Rising Star Lodge Number
MR. ALLEN: Your Honor, Commissioners, good
Raiders? (Laughter.) We'll see next Saturday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right, we'll see. Wish
MR. ALLEN: Absolutely. Judge, I appreciate the
opportunity to stand before Commissioners Court this morning.
I'm here representing Kerrville Masonic Lodge 697 and Center
.Point's Rising Star Masonic Lodge 429. I apologize for not
being here last week and -- or week before last and being on
the agenda when the Elks Lodge came before you. I was out of
town and couldn't be here. So, in turn, I'm here taking up
your time, and I'll try to make it very minimal this morning.
As you stated, I'm here requesting consideration for tax
exemption for both lodges, the only two lodges in the county.
It's the only other two fraternal organizations that the
Comptroller's office has determined that they're eligible for
this exemption besides the Elks Lodge.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Are you
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MR. ALLEN: Yes, sir. Questions?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Elks made the point
repeatedly about their outreach and the things they do in the
community with respect to helping others, not the least of
which was scholarships to youth -- deserving youth. Tell me
about the Masonic Lodge.
MR. ALLEN: The Masonic Lodge is very similar with
-- with the Elks Lodge in what we do for the community,
scholarships, help with the needy and so forth. And vet --
and more -- more so the veterans as well. The Masonic Lodge,
worldwide -- not locally, but worldwide; don't want that
misinterpreted, but worldwide, Masonic Lodge and its
dependent bodies contribute back to society about $1.5
million a day, and that's -- that's a significant amount of
money going back to the communities worldwide. Scholarships
is probably one of the big things on our list that we -- we
work very hard in trying to make happen. Our only support is
-- is through charitable contributions to us, fundraisers,
and what little dues that we do receive from our members, and
those dues are very, very minimal.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second -- third.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for.
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approval as indicated. Any question or further discussion on
this motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you
for being here, Mr. Allen.
MR. ALLEN: Thank you. We appreciate y'all's
consideration.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 3; presentation
from Pam Warner regarding the Big Fix Homeless Cat project,
and consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding
endorsement of trap/neuter/return to manage homeless cats
overpopulation in Kerr County, and initiate a review of the
Animal Control ordinance to support trap/neuter and return.
Ms. Warner, thank you for being here today.
MS. WARNER: Thank you, sir. Good morning. These
are some of the slides that's part of the presentation today.
I'm afraid you might not be able to read them on the screen,
so I'm giving you packets.
JUDGE TINLEY: Put them all up here; we'll pass
I them out.
MS. WARNER: Thank you.
MR. REYNOLDS: Can we turn that screen a little
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bit? We're not trying to eliminate you guys, but we're
trying to influence the folk up front. (Laughter.)
MS. WARNER: Okay. Good morning, Your Honor,
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning.
MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you for giving us some time
this morning. I want to begin by thanking Thomas from Bright
Eyes Computing; he's helping with the slides today, and he
has been invaluable. My name is Dr. Pam Warner. I'm a
psychologist and I'm a college counselor, an educator. I
retired with my husband to Kerr County -- rural Kerr County
about five and a half years ago. I began inquiring about the
unserved needs of animals in our county. I'd always wanted
to do something for animals. I was lucky enough to retire
early, and so I began asking around, and very soon I began to
hear from cat lovers and cat haters about the many unwanted
and unfixed homeless cats in Kerrville and Kerr County. And
here's some of the things they said about those cats. Would
you go the next slide please? So, this next 20 minutes or
so, we're going to be talking about cats.
Now, I know there's a lot of important issues that
come before this Court, and you may not give cats a real high
priority, and I do understand that. But what I want people
to understand is that we've been doing this a few years now,
and we have come to believe it's about a lot more than cats.
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It's about unresolved and longstanding disputes in
neighborhoods between cat-loving and cat-hating neighbors.
It's about neighborhood strife. Janie Roman will be able to
denying themselves food and medications so they can feed
these cats that they have befriended and that are breeding
out of control. This is about taxpayer money, as we're going
to share with you in a minute, and this is about the
frustrated staff of local rescue groups that try to find
space for hundreds of unwanted kittens every spring. And
this is about the often thankless job of Kerr County Animal
Control that have to .patiently field cat complaint calls and
intake over 1,000 unwanted cats and kittens every year, and
press many of them into the gas chamber. This is about a lot
more than cats. This is about community, and this is about
people.
~ So, I want to begin by what we're asking for this
morning, so that you'll be able to reflect on that throughout
the day -- or throughout the morning. The next slide,
please. We aren't asking you for money. We aren't asking
you for the use of county resources. We are asking you to
endorse trap/neuter/return as a reasonably effective strategy
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County Animal Control ordinance and support changes or
amendments to that that will encourage ongoing TNR in Kerr
County. We know this is your first exposure to this today,
and you may not want to take any decisive action. We
understand that. But we need to make an introduction, and we
hope that -- that some of these issues will resonate for you.
Here is our story. Next slide, please. After I heard all
of the last cer~.sus. Another estimate was .5 homeless cats
per household, or about 5,000 homeless cats just in Kerrville
alone at any given time. Next slide.
.-,-
I came.~oss the website for Alley Cat Allies; I
learned that they are a national advocacy organization for
homeless cats, and they advocate TNR to control homeless cat
overpopulation. Here's their argument. Next slide, please.
Homeless cats live near food, water, and shelter sources.
They often live in groups or colonies, and they expand from
within. These kittens will breed with each other at about
the age of six months if they're not fixed. Next slide. One
unfixed female cat plus her kittens and their kittens
producing kittens can produce 60-plus kittens per year. And,
of course, then the numbers just explode from there, with all
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those cats producing cats. The bottom line of this is that
these cats breed faster than they can reasonably be killed to
control their overpopulation. We can't kill them as fast as
they breed. Alley Cat Allies' procedures seem simple enough.
Next slide, please. Humanely trapping the cats, spaying and
neutering them, giving them rabies shots, ear-tipping them
for identification -- I'll show you that in a minute. Then
after recovery, returning them where they were trapped and
continuing to feed and monitor that colony, and keeping
tracking information for later follow-up. That's the
procedure, and that is Page 5 in your packets, if you need to
read it more closely.
These are longstanding Texas university programs,
and they're on Page 6 in your packet. University of Texas
Campus Cat Coalition -- Cat Coalition in Austin, Aggie Feral
Cat Alliance -- for those of you that can't see, Aggie Feral
Cat Alliance of Texas, the Feral Cat Rescue from University
of North Texas. They all began in the 1990's, and they have
seen a reduction in the number of homeless cats hanging
around their campuses. Next slide, please. This is a short
list of TNR programs in Texas cities and counties. San
Antonio, Fredericksburg, Blanco County, Brazos County,
Bandera County, Austin, Dallas, Houston, and there's many
more. This is just a short list of them, the most -- the
most familiar ones around the region. Next slide. And this
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is
is a short list of the ones that are national. Next slide.
Reportedly, these national animal advocacy
packet. American Veterninary Medicine Association, Humane
Society of the United States, American Humane Association,
American Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and
the Cat Fancier's Association. So, I did all this research.
Well, that was enough for me. Next slide. I started the Big
Fix Homeless Cat project of the Texas Hill Country in 2005.
Our mission -- next slide -- was to utilize trap/neuter and
return to stabilize and reduce the numbers of homeless cats
in Kerr County by stopping their breeding. We are the first
and only organization of our kind in the county. Next slide.
Here's our growth and development over the last three and a
half years. We have a telephone help line, and we normally
receive 20 to 30 calls per week, and we are still receiving
that after three years of people in the community wanting our
help. These -- and these are the vet clinics that work with
us.
Our team of volunteers is growing, and we .have
experienced gratifying revenue increases. Next slide.
$1,000 in 2005, $6,400 in 2006, $17,700 in community -- in
revenues mostly from community donations in 2007. Our
fundraisers account for about $3,000 dollars per year of the
total revenues. The rest come from donations -- community
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those grants came from locally based foundations --
foundation boards who decided to take a chance to try TNR
because they were concerned about all of this. So, this is
what we expect our revenues to look like in 2008. With the
tough economic times, it probably won't be quite that high.
I made the slide before the stock market crashed. But -- but
last year. Okay. Next slide, please.
Despite these gifts of generosity, which we deeply
appreciate, we generally keep a low bank balance in our bank
account, because 99 percent of all of our revenues go
continuously to the vets for spay and neuters. This dramatic
surge in community support indicates to us a lot of people
want a real solution to this homeless cat problem. And next
we want to give you a little information on how and why TNR
works, and this is very important. TNR is a management, and
not an eradication, because trapping and killing doesn't work
to reduce numbers. Trapping and killing doesn't work to
reduce numbers, despite the fact that it's what has been done
all over the country for years to try to reduce the
73 million cats that are in -- that are national now. Our
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project is supportive of Kerr County Animal Control. Janie
Roman and her team have a very hard job and they work hard at
it, and they're to be commended, and we want to work with
them. Okay, next slide.
However, through the practice of trapping and
killing, and through no fault of theirs, they have had to
destroy 1,200 to 1,400 unwanted cats per year at our little
county facility. That's a high number for our population.
If this eradication strategy were working, and they're doing
this year after year, shouldn't this number be going down?
Here's why it isn't. Okay, next slide. And this, if you
can't see, is Page 12 of your packet. Here is a homeless cat
colony occupying a territory on the left-hand side. All the
cats there are unfixed and they're breeding. On the right is
that territory after trap and kill. The number of cats is
significantly less, but the cats in surrounding areas are
beginning to take notice and they're starting to move in. On
the bottom is the colony occupying the territory after two
breeding seasons. More cats have moved in. They've bred
with the cats that were left. All the cats are unfixed and
breeding. We're really back where we started. That's why
the arrow goes back to the beginning, trapping and killing
over and over again to try to control the overpopulation.
So, the illusion is that the -- the problem was addressed
right after trapping and killing. Well, the numbers
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This is called the vacuum effect, and it's well
documented. Next slide. Trapping and killing wastes
taxpayer money, because breeding cats fill right back in.
That's why there's 1,200 to 1,400 cats going down every year
at Kerr County Animal Control. They are not draining the
swamp. Okay, next slide. Here's why TNR works. You start
with a homeless cat colony on the left. All the cats are
unfixed and breeding. On the right-hand side, then, the
Smiley faces signify the cats that were trapped, fixed, and
returned. And then -- they're not always smiling, but...
(Laughter.) And then -- and then down at the bottom there on
the right is that same colony after two breeding seasons.
The same cats, but they're not breeding. The numbers of that
colony have stabilized. And then we go to TNR maintenance.
As those numbers decline through natural attrition, there
will be other cats coming in, and then we have to catch them,
fix them, and return them. Considerably cheaper labor and
money than trapping and killing over and over again. The
number of cats in this colony on the right and the bottom,
they're now stable. Next slide.
The benefits of a stabilized homeless cat
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This one is hard to read. Public health officials support
TNR; it's Page 15 in your packet. I only want to read one of
these for the audience, and this is from Atlantic City, New
Jersey. Ron	Cash,	Director	of Health, Atlantic City
Boardwalk.	There'	s a large	homeless cat population there.
"We serve" -- Mr. Cash says, "We serve a population of
approximately 35 million people who visit our community every
year, and I need to operate a safe city for tourists of
Atlantic City. When we went shopping for a solution to the
feral cat concerns in our community, we found TNR, and TNR
works."
What about money spent on TNR? Next slide, please.
San Diego County saved $859,221 after TNR implementation.
Orange County, Florida saved $109,000. This was over a
several-year period, because they are not trapping and
killing over and over again, with the associated cost of
impounding and destroying these unwanted cats. TNR stops the
breeding. The fixed cats hold the territory, keeping unfixed
cats out, and countering the vacuum effect. Next slide.
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state law, the whole state of Illinois, that endorse and
promote TNR over trap and kill. So, what about Kerrville?
Next slide. Well, we've performed TNR on about 2,000 cats in
half years. We have kept tracking data, and recently
completed a telephone survey of 20 of those colonies.
98 percent of them had no new kittens born in them. The
year and a half ago, okay? So, these are little spots,
mostly around Kerrville, where homeless cats are not bxeeding
out of control for the first time probably ever. Our goal is
to greatly curtail the kitten production in Kerrville in six
to eight years by doing about 600 cats per year.
We want to curtail kitten production in Ingram,
Center Point, and Kerrville in about ten years, and certain
spots in outlying regions in Kerr County. We will never
stabilize the entire homeless cat population in Kerr County,
but we can stabilize territories where people live, which
will make it safer for the people and -- and easier on the
animals. So, what does the continual collecting and killing
in Kerr County of these 1,200 to 1,400 homeless cats cost
taxpayers every year? I haven't been able to get an accurate
figure on what it actually costs per cat, but I have found a
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figure of $176 to impound and destroy one homeless pet
through the Texas shelter system. The entire state averages
that. Next slide. So, even if the cost in Kerr County was a
very low $50 per cat, just a 10 percent reduction in those
numbers of cats that they would have to kill out there would
result in $7,000 in savings annually. Diligent application
of trap/neuter and return can produce this reduction. We
have every reason to believe that, because our colonies are
stabilized and we see the national data, and it's free. It's
slide -- is pure profit for Kerrville and Kerr County
taxpayers.
Cat lovers and cat haters both must keep in mind
that having zero homeless cats in Kerrville and Kerr County
is not an attainable outcome of any problem-solving strategy.
They're breeding like crazy in the countryside. They're
breeding like crazy in Bandera County and in Gillespie
County, and there will be always be cats in Kerrville and
Kerr County. We have a wonderful habitat for them here; the
river, the large storm drains, our beautiful green areas.
However, in certain territories, we can stabilize numbers.
Next slide. We can achieve the every homeless cat is
ear-tipped solution in some of these areas. You can see the
ear-tip on the left-hand ear of that cat, and a little bit of
ear is cut off for identification. Next slide. Here are the
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characteristics of ear-tipped cats. They're spayed/neutered,
they have rabies shots, they're usually being fed and
monitored, providing natural pest control, and countering the
vacuum effect, which is probably the most important point up
there. They're keeping breeding cats away. That's why trap
and kill didn't work, because nothing kept the breeding cats
away. Cats are very territorial, and they hold their -- they
hold their space. Next slide.
The success of TNR in Kerr County depends on
education about TNR as the best solution for both cat lovers
and cat haters. We have nothing against people that love
birds; we're trying to help them. And also, all of us
working together -- that would be the Kerr County Animal
Control, that would be local animal rescue groups, that would
be us, and that would be public -- the public, their support,
vets that help us, and City and County government, and here's
how you in particular can help. Next slide, please. Most
communities that have embraced TNR, and there are and more
all the time, have found the need to reexamine their animal
control ordinances, and here is some of the confusion. Next
slide. Homeless cat colonies are made up of unsocialized
feral cats and abandoned domestic cats and their kittens;
they're all mixed up together. Can you tell which one of
these is feral? One of them is. It's not the one walking
away. It's the little guy with the white in the middle of
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the pack there. He's unapproachable. Can't catch him, can't
touch him, and he'll try to bite you, and he's mixed in with
all the other cats.
Now, in the case of colonies, these may be stray --
stray homeless domestic cats, some of which might be tame,
but it's impossible to tell what is what. Next slide. We
all know what a domestic cat is. A feral cat, on the other
hand, is a -- this is one definition. A second generation or
later offspring from a domestic cat that was abandoned or
lost. Feral cats look like domestic cats, but they have more
in common with wildlife. They are unsocialized. They've
never been touched by people, often. They are unadoptable as
domestic pets. Next slide. They occupy a unique niche.
They're the only animal thriving in the wild that started in
recent history from domestic stock, yet they aren't domestic.
One article I have places them in the gray zone. The usual
animal control ordinance says someone feeding, and therefore
owning these quasi-wild feral cats, so this might be Kerr
County or anywhere. That's often a feature of the animal
control; if you feed it, you own it. Many feral cats are
about as friendly and easy to catch as squirrels, raccoons,
skunks, or deer. Next slide, please. Can you imagine
catching the deer you feed every year, getting them a rabies
shot and keeping a collar and rabies tag on them? If that's
not enough, can you imagine yourself doing this as someone
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Spring Branch, Texas, 2006. This says, "Good
Samaritan in Trouble. Kindness to cats proves costly." And
this is Nydia Montero. This is the San Antonio Express News.
When she moved into her mobile home, she inherited homeless
cats. She moved in; there they were. Eventually, she
trapped nine of them. She gave them -- she had them fixed.
She trapped them, had them fixed, gave them rabies shots,
returned them back to the neighborhood. She said, "I just
didn't have the heart not to do something for these poor
creatures." In fact, as we know from what we've heard this
morning, she had become part of the solution by performing
TNR on these cats, and she had done it at her own expense.
However, soon she was served with eight citations for being
in violation of the animal control ordinance. Some of these
citations included not keeping the nine cats confined on her
small property around her mobile home. Because she was
feeding them, she got them rabies shots, now she owns them,
and they're not confined around the small property around her
mobile home. Not having rabies and license tags displayed on
these cats she can't touch. You see what the problem is. It
was a mess.
Under her picture, it says she says, "I'm not
paying a cent of these fines." And she's holding these
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with community service by assisting a local animal rescue
nonprofit that performs TNR. So, ironically, in Comal
County -- and this is the next slide. This is the most
important slide of the day. As I understand it, you can't be
prosecuted if you're feeding these kittens, but not fixing
them, resulting in more kittens and increased rabies outbreak
potential, and endless financial cost from trapping and
killing. You can be prosecuted if you're fixing them and
returning them, which means you own them now, resulting in no
more kittens, reduced rabies outbreak potential, and reduced
financial cost to taxpayers because the numbers are stable in
those colonies. You see the dilemma here. Comal County
time for them to revisit their animal control policy. So,
now you're getting some idea of where we are here, and I'm
just about done. Next slide.
The Big Fix supports Kerr County Animal Control.
We can't say enough about all the good that has happened
there over the last couple years. It has been a remarkable
and impressive transformation for them. Those of us that
care about animals have noticed that they've got a new
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addition. They've got increased adoptions. They've got this
health fair event that brought people together for a day.
That was an unheard of event. And Commissioner Oehler was
doing barbecue at that event, and it was a very positive
public relations statement for them. They care. They're
working hard. I've been appreciative of how they have
supported us: We are a new paradigm. As you know, you can
tell we're a new paradigm. It's hard with new paradigms.
Janie has been there for us. She's supported us, she's stood
by us, and I think she's wondered sometimes if we're going to
cause her some difficulties. One of the reasons we're here
County. Next slide.
Here's the deal, though. Kerr County Animal
ordinance is ambiguous as to where it stands with TNR, we
think that puts them in an awkward and unfair position.
They're caught in the middle between a TNR strategy that has
potential to really work and help this problem and questions
about how it fits with the animal control ordinance they must
enforce. All right. So, you can take her out of the
middle -- next slide -- by doing what these other cities and
counties have done, and trying to accommodate trap/neuter and
return in their animal control ordinance. We want an
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ordinance .that is unambiguously supportive of trap/neuter and
return. We're not asking for money. We're committed to the
work. We believe the community. will -- they have, and we
believe they will support us as we continue to show ourselves
worthy of their support. You have in-hand -- there were
packets that came prior to this with sample animal control
ordinances and some of the letters of support we've gotten,
including one from Animal Control and the local Humane
Society. In addition, the Kerr County -- the Kerrville City
Council unanimously endorsed us last month.
So, again, here's a summary of what we want to
do -- next slide, please -- for Kerr County Animal Control
and the citizens of Kerr County. We want to help them quit
killing cats. The worst killing they do is cats. if we can
reduce by 10 or 20 percent the number of cats they must force
into a gas chamber every week, we will improve working
conditions for them. This is not just about cats; it's about
people. All right. Ease their rabies concerns, because all
these cats gets rabies -- rabies shots, and they're not
making kittens that are unprotected. Save the taxpayers
money, help the local rescue groups not be overwhelmed -- and
that's about people -- and help the cat lovers and the cat
haters, even those people that love birds, benefit from fewer
homeless cats in Kerr County. And that's the end of my
statement. Thank you.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Warner. As a cat
MS. WARNER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: As you indicated at the outset, this
is our first exposure to -- to looking at what steps the
Court can take to go forward in connection with this matter,
and there are some legal issues involved. We've identified
some. There are conflicting provisions in the penal code, as
I'm sure yqu're aware, and that's something that -- that
causes a problem. I'm not sure what you have in mind for the
Texas Legislature at their upcoming session, but I'm sure you
and other -- and other groups of like interest have maybe got
some things in mind that you want to lay before them in hopes
that they can resolve some of the -- some of the confusion
and the legal issues that are involved there. But we
obviously have got to look at those legal issues before we
take any action, and our County Attorney has done some of
that, and has a lot more to do in that respect. We
appreciate you bringing that to us. I note that we have
several participation forms that have been filed, and I'd
like to recognize those folks. Ms. Yarbrough? If you'd come
forward, give us your name and address, and tell us what's on
your mind about this subject.
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MS. YARBROUGH: I'd like to give you one more.
Thank you. I wasn't expecting to go first. My name's Debbie
Yarbrough, and I'm the General Manager of Hastings, and one
of the lead trappers in our trapping team. I'm nervous.
This is -- that's my husband over there, too. We got started
with Pam back in 2005, when we were looking to get some help.
We tried everywhere to try to find somebody that could help
us trap some cats that were in a dangerous area downtown, and
we called Pam, and she just came running up on her horse, and
so we've been with the program ever since. This is our book
from this year, all documented for our homeless cat projects.
We go out every week. And I just mention Hastings because,
as you know, I probably work a lot of hours, but we still do
this every week, put in, like, eight to ten hours. And it's
the people aspect of it that keeps us going. I mean, it's
the animals, obviously, but these people come to us and
they're in dire need, because nobody else does it. And --
and also, the look on their face when you get there, it's
like you're -- you're coming in on a silver horse. And these
are not just people that are indigent; I mean, you know,
don't have any money or anything. It's a lot of people from
the richer parts of town as well. And I think that part of
what we're doing is raising the awareness. That's why our
numbers are going -- our dollars are going up. I guess
that's the main point I'm trying to make, is just that it's
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helping the community. You know, we're all part of the
community. The homeless cat project really helps lower the
numbers, and -- and I hope you see what a benefit it is.
Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. We appreciate you
~ being here.
MS. YARBROUGH: You bet.
JUDGE TINLEY: Max Reynolds. Give us your name and
address, please.
MR. REYNOLDS: Max Reynolds. They told me not to
give my address, because people might dump cats on me out
there. (Laughter.) But I'll tell you. I live 12 miles out
on Medina Highway; 4485 Medina Highway.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, sir.
MR. REYNOLDS: I moved out there in '02. I didn't
own one cat. I didn't have a cat on the place. It's a
favorite dumping place out there. I can always tell when I'm
getting new cats, because they leave a pile of cat food at my
gate and drive off. And they make their way up to my house.
And I heard about the Big Fix project through our home health
provider, who was coming by and seeing all these cats out
there, and said, "You ever heard of the Big Fix?" And I said
I'd never heard of the Big Fix, don't know anything about it.
So, she gave me a phone number, and I called, and they were
the nicest people I've ever talked to or worked with. And
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I never did see a smiley face on any of my cats, either.
(Laughter.) They are now -- I have caught all of my cats
except one. There's one adult female that is a very
frustrated cat, and I notice now that she's making friends
with all the raccoons and possums out there, so...
(Laughter.) But we have had no kittens this year. And we
started this project in March and April, and I have -- like I
said, I keep trying to catch that one, but it's just not
going to happen. So, there's one that's not fixed, and she
is fixed. So, it's a wonderful program. It's been a big
help to me. I have benefited from this, and have contributed
to the ongoing cost of it in some small way as I've been able
to. But I think what we're asking for you today is to
endorse our project of the Big Fix, and say that it is
something that is very helpful to the County, to the people
that are involved with it. It's been a godsend to me to have
this done out there. I continue to feed my cats, and they're
no problem to anybody but me. And we've put signs up out at
our gate telling people to please don't drop off more cats,
and it has helped in some way, I think. I even put up a fake
camera out there so they think they're on TV. (Laughter.)
But anyway -- now they know it's fake. But anyway -- I think
they probably did anyway, but anyway, it's been a wonderful
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we would just like to say that Kerr County supports the Big
Fix project, and that's why we're here today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How many cats do you have, sir?
MR. REYNOLDS: Oh, I was afraid somebody was going
to ask that. Thirty-nine. (Laughter.) And if I got the
last one, it would have been 40 fixed, but I only have 39.
MS. WARNER: Can you imagine what that would have
MR. REYNOLDS: You know, we have had kittens,
why it's got up to 39. I know they're inbreeding; they're
doing all sorts of -- you know, and it was just -- I didn't
know what to do, you know. I said quit dropping cats off on
me, and quit breeding. But, you know, I can't make them do
that, so -- and I can't make them stop dropping them on me,
either. But it has -- I have had really no drops much this
year, so -- and it's -- it's stabilized. I can't touch one
of my cats if I wanted to. They're -- they're -- I don't
call them homeless cats now, because I think they have a home
at my place. I give them shelter up under my porch and put
doghouses under there with bedding and straw in it, and they
sleep in it year-round, and especially in the winter when it
gets cold and weary out for them. So, I'm providing for
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them. And they're not a problem for birds, 'cause I have all
my bird feeders up on high posts, so they can't get to those,
and -- but they do eliminate my mice and rats and snakes and
lizards and all of the other things that they like to catch
and play with and eat. So, it's been good. It's good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir.
MR. REYNOLDS:	It'	s a good	thing.
JUDGE TINLEY:	Dr.	Autumn	Barbutti.
done hundreds, hundreds of surgeries on these animals. This
project is great. I came here in 2006, was not much of a cat
veterinarian. Liked dogs a whole lot more. I was very
skeptical of Pam when she called me about the project, and
was like, "Well, I love surgery, so yeah, I'll do it." And
so, started working with the Big Fix, and saw how they would
go out and they would trap -- strategically trap these
animals. And we -- of course, we can't handle them, so we
have to use an injection pole in order to anesthetize them,
bring them in for surgery. And when they are under, I mean,
we're holding them, we're looking in their ears, we're
looking -- you know, they get a full health check. Those
that are somewhat healthy, we do check for feline AIDS and
feline leukemia. I have a -- I mean, we do -- you know, I
make the decision as to whether or not I think this is a good
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people not spaying and neutering their pet animals that got
out, reproduced, and they didn't want to get rid of the
kittens or find homes, so they just dumped them, now we're
the cleanup crew -- or they're the cleanup crew, and they
bring them to us. But these -- they find people that will
feed them, and they go there. And they create a -- you know,
that is their home, their acre or 5 acres or whatever is
their territory, and they continue to breed in their
territory unless something is done. And it is -- you know, I
was, like, well, yeah let's see what the numbers do. And Pam
started coming back to me and showing me, "Okay, we did this
colony and this colony and this colony." And then I did my
first colony that I found myself, which had 30 cats. And
it's -- she's a neighbor, a friend of mine. And we did all
but -- we did all the cats. We went in and found the
kittens, adopted out all the kittens, veterinary care,
tested, the whole thing. And she has one male that we can't
get,	and my	philosophy on	that	is, well,	okay.	There -	- he's
not	the one	who is having	the	babies, so	that	is okay.	You
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know, that's a given. But I think this is just a great
solution to a -- you know, it seems silly to some people.
It's just cats; cats are just part of life. They're just out
there. Well, but they're animals, and they start out as
pets, and then, you know, this is what happens. So, this is
a very humane, wonderful alternative to killing these
animals, which is not fun for anybody. So, that's my
endorsement.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am.
DR. BARBUTTI: Do you have any questions for me?
~ Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have
anything further to offer in connection with this particular
item?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, Judge. I just wanted
to say that I don't think there's anybody here at this table
that likes the no-kill issue -- I mean, likes to kill these
animals. We have endorsed no-kill for a long time around
here, and I hope that -- I hope that today, that this Court
can support the Big Fix. I would assume that the Judge is --
when he's talking about conflicts in the law, that it would
have something to do with policy, I would think. I'm not
sure. We can't -- we can't even endorse that we like these
people or like what they do or anything like that?
MR. EMERSON: Your problem, Buster, is with Penal
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Code 42.092.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, of course, I should
have recognized that. (Laughter.)
MR. EMERSON: We need to address the issues in the
code, because it states that you have to provide food, water,
shelter, and it also states that if you turn around and
abandon the cat, you've violated the Penal Code and committed
animal cruelty.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So --
MR. EMERSON: We need to figure out how to work.
around the statute.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing is easy.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Dr. Warner, what a
tremendous presentation. A fantastic presentation.
MS. WARNER: Thank you so much.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You did well. The only
thing that you did wrong is go to the City first.
MS. WARNER: Oh, bless your heart.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're the leaders in this
community. (Laughter.)
MS. WARNER: You have been very gracious this
morning, and I'll be diplomatic, leave it at that. There is
a lot of other places that have implemented these ordinances,
and in Texas, cities that have somehow found a way to address
this around a state penal code. So, keeping in mind that
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but Houston -- Houston, Dallas, Austin, so many other places,
you have these ordinances, so I'm hopeful that something can
be resolved. If you need any help, I'm volunteering today to
be a part of any other discussions that -- that might take
place on this if that can help to clarify. Thank you again.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson, because of these legal
issues, would it be inappropriate for this Court to even
consider recognizing and adopting the proposition that
trap/neuter and return is an effective alternative to animal
control?
MR. EMERSON: I think, as a government body, it
would be prudent to wait .and let's Figure out how to work
around the statute, because do you operate as a subdivision
of the State. The State's the one that passed the penal code
statute, so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This guy can put more damper
on fun than anybody I know. (Laughter.)
MS. WARNER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But thank God for him.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, you are going to continue
to look at it?
MR. EMERSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Figure out how what they've
done in Austin is -- not like we want to be like Austin.
JUDGE TINLEY: Excellent presentation, Dr. Warner.
We thank you for being here, and we thank you for the work
that your group and all your volunteers are doing.
MS. WARNER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move on, if we might, to Item
4; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
authorize County Auditor to prepare the annual audits for ESD
Number 1 and ESD Number 2 pursuant to Health and Safety Code,
Section 775.082. Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think the Court is
well aware that this has been going on for quite a while,
and -- and we have asked the Auditor -- the County Auditor to
do this audit on several occasions, and the answer is that it
would be unethical and would put her license in jeopardy.
She's told us that numerous times. And, so, I couldn't
understand. Mr. Alves couldn't understand. He is the
president of the ESD Number 2. And it just kept coming up
and coming up, and so Rex finally did some research, and I
believe that everybody probably has a copy of the result of
his research. If not, I will be glad to pass mine on. And,
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to me, it's just a matter of effort. It takes a lot longer
to refuse to do something than it would to go ahead and do
what's right and do what should have been done earlier;
figure out a way to make it possible instead of refusing.
ESD's are a part of county government. They're a
taxing entity. And the County Auditor works for Kerr County,
even though she is appointed by the District Attorneys, so I
believe that 775.082 pretty well states it. And there has
been a lot of time spent by Mr. Alves and others, wasted
time, wasted time by this Court, to have our Auditor refuse
to do this in the past, and I think it's time that we
straighten it out and authorize her to do those audits, and I
hope that she will do them. It will save the ESD's
approximately $1,500 a piece, which that money that they get
in is intended for emergency services and for fire
protection, and I think that's the reason why the Health and
Safety Code makes it possible for the County Auditor to do
those audits, and I would like to see it happen for a change
and get this actually resolved. It's been going on now for
well over a year, and it's putting our EDS's in kind of a
situation where they need to get their audits done to meet
the -- to abide by the laws that they operate under. That's
where I am.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir. Mr. Wood with the
ESD Number 1 has filed a participation form.
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MR. WOOD: Good morning. This Court and previous
years, I was assistant treasurer, and four years as president
of the ESD. During that time, the County Audit -- previous
County Auditors have always audited our books. This year,
during budget time, Mrs. Hargis informed me that she could
not perform that service, and suggested that they go outside
to a certified public accountant. We did, and we found an
estimate, Commissioner Oehler, of $4,000 from two gentlemen.
This was a surprise, I may say a shock, inasmuch as we spend
less than $1,000 to run the emergency service district, which
$800 is for liability insurance. So, $4,000 is quite a lot
of money. And I asked these gentlemen why it was so much
money, because our -- we write 15 checks a year, and we make
12 deposits a year of tax money. And, you know, it's simpler
than filling out a -- reviewing your checking statement.
So, they said that because they had to provide a
certificate of -- I think the word is -- is that we are in
accordance with general accounting practices, that that's a
liability a C.P.A. takes on. Apparently, that's not a
liability the County Auditor has, because of the immunity
laws. I'm not practicing law, Mr. Emerson, but that's my
understanding, just my private citizen's understanding. So,
I strongly request that you ask the County Auditor to
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continue this longstanding practice of auditing the books of
the Mountain Home and the Ingram ESD's.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Wood.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Emerson, do you have anything
further to offer other than what is in the written
communication you provided to the Court on this subject?
MR. EMERSON: Just the latest information that the
one piece of the puzzle that was still missing was the
General Accounting Office, the G.A.O. And it's my
understanding from talking to Jeannie that the G.A.O. finally
returned her call and stated that she -- I don't know if
"audit" is the right word, 'cause C.P.A.'s have their own
lingo, but she can perform a review of what's there with
agreed upon procedures, and opine upon what she reviews, but
she cannot opine upon the financials, because technically
they don't have financials in the C.P.A. sense. So, don't
ask me what that means, okay? That's -- that's the G.A.O.
language.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does that suffice for .the ESD
requirements?
MR. EMERSON: That I don't know. I mean, I have
found that there's more meanings to "audit" than I ever knew
existed when I started this. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: It sounds like, from what you've
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just stated, that her license, if it's done for the purpose
of verifying financials, may be at least halfway in jeopardy.
MR. EMERSON: Well, the key piece to this whole
thing is that she can perform the function as a county
auditor, not necessarily as a C.P.A. under her C.P.A.
license.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That should meet the
requirement. And then isn't there something where I saw a
disclaimer that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- you put on there that says
it's not as a C.P.A.; you're doing it as an auditor?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is; it's in Rex's
letter.
MS. HARGIS: I still don't have the language from
the state board. The state board still needs to give me the
language that I --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't hear you, Ms. Hargis.
MS. HARGIS: I still don't have the language from
the state board. We asked for a legal opinion from the state
board, and they would not give us that over the phone. Rex
was in my office when they stated that. And they're supposed
to give me a legal opinion as to what I can actually do. The
problem is not actually performing the work, but it's the
letter that's attached to it, which really is a report. Most
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people don't understand that the letter at the beginning of
the audit document is not a letter; it's an audit report.
And I cannot state on financial statements, number one, that
do not exist, and number two -- so, therefore, all I can do
is look at the records that they have, because if I go in and
perform and make financial statements, I can't audit what I
do. And that's basically what my predecessor did. He
performed -- he went in, he checked their documents, he did a
revenue and income statement, and then he said, "In
accordance with American Institute of Certified Public
Accountants..." Well, that language doesn't even exist. You
don't say that. You say they're presented fairly in
accordance with GAB or in accordance with GASB, because those
are the two authoritary groups that are out there. That's
all you can say. And because he issued -- because he
basically compiled the financial statements, you can't audit
what you compile. So -- but what I can do is go in and look
at the data they actually have and verify that the bank
records are correct, that their checks have been written,
that their contracts have been -- they have contracts in
accordance with the Health and Safety Code, and that I can
do.
JUDGE TINLEY: Your --
MS. HARGIS: That's an agreed upon procedure.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Your predecessor, of course,
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was not a certified public accountant.
MS. HARGIS: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: And so he didn't have a license that
was at risk.
MS. HARGIS: He did not.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Am I hearing from you today
that, upon receipt of this opinion from the state board that
gives you the qualifying language -- which it's my
understanding that's what you're seeking in this opinion, the
qualifying language in -- in your report, your audit -- your
report, that you're in a position to go forward and examine
those records and issue a report which incorporates the
qualifying language in the opinion?
MS. HARGIS: And in those -- in those regards, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: To a certain extent.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're prepared to do that? Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You are prepared to do the
I audit?
MS. HARGIS: An agreed --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we authorize you to do it?
MS. HARGIS: Agreed upon procedure based on the
language that I receive from the state board, which will be
similar to the language that I had to give them last year,
but a little bit -- little bit better, I think. I don't know
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~ yet .
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would certainly hope it
would be better. Otherwise, 775.082 is absolutely useless to
this Court, because it -- it gives us the authority to do it
in one sense, and then, because -- and even says even if
you're a C.P.A., it doesn't matter.
MS. HARGIS: In --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't matter. It only
matters to you, it seems like. And it seems like that, even
with all the stuff that has gone on here, and attorneys'
opinions to Rex, why don't you just go do it and get it over
with?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex agreed with Jeannie,
waiting to hear the language from --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, get the language and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- get on with it. This
thing -- this is ridiculous.
MS. HARGIS: I think that Rex understands my
position. I think it's not as simple as one would think.
And I -- I do believe that I have the right to protect
something that I worked very hard to achieve.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Maybe we shouldn't have an
auditor that is a licensed C.P.A. for this very reason.
MS. HARGIS: The G.A.O. stated to me also that when
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performed. The second sentence says, "unless." He said,
"That doesn't release you from doing an independent audit."
And I still feel that -- I will express to the Court, because
', I did ESD's for many years, that I do feel that independent
audits protect you, protect the Court, from any problems that
may arise in the future, and I have experienced those
problems. And I do want this in the record, that I will do
what the Court -- what I am allowed to do under -- under my
license and under what everyone else is doing. I have
several opinions from some of the other auditors who do
perform these, but they're strictly reviews, and they do not
give an opinion. So, it's pretty universal as to what I'm
saying. I think we will try to do our very best to give them
what we can. And the G.A.O. agrees with me that I did what I
had to do. And, unfortunately, I didn't realize there was as
many opinions out there. I don't think Rex did either, but
every single person that I talked to, and Rex talks to, gives
us a totally different opinion, so it's not as easy --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's not so. That's not
so. That's not what Mr. Emerson told me that he heard in
your office; that you heard the very same thing from the very
person -- very same person. That's not true.
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MS. HARGIS: Patrick, who we spoke with together in
my office, gave us an opinion on an internal audit, not an
external audit, and that's what -- and, again, with a review
opinion.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: More, more, more. You know,
we spend more time on this than it would have taken to do the
whole thing in the beginning. Nothing would have been
jeopardized, in my opinion, at all. You can fall back and
look under the law, what the authority that we have is, and
it would be over. But we argue about this constantly, and it
makes no sense to do this argument over and over. Why don't
we just get it done? I move that we authorize, by court
order, the County Auditor to do the ESD Number 1 and Number 2
audits that are required.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that includes the limited
language that she's required to put on --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That includes the limited
language. I mean, whatever is legal. If it's -- I mean, my
gosh, --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- 775.082 evidently doesn't
have anything to do except a very small portion of what this
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Court can authorize.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, 775 doesn't. But if
there -- if there is -- if the language that Ms. Hargis is
seeking is that which protects her license, then I think
that's important that she be given the opportunity to protect
her license.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine. By all means, I
want her to protect her license, but I sure would like to see
her get it done.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with that.
I want to make certain she's not putting herself and her
license in jeopardy.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't believe that she is,
based on what we've received.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we're clear on
I that --
JUDGE TINLEY: But the qualifying language is a
part of your motion?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That would be fine.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Further question or
discussion or the motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think spay and neuter cats
is more fun to talk about. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Can we incorporate that as an
amendment?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Maybe. I have to think
about it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion?
All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move
to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
approve Central Counting Station personnel pursuant to
', Chapter 27 of the Texas Election Code. You guys are creating
a challenge for me when you put all these acronyms in here
and I've got to figure out what they are so I can put it into
the record.
MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, ma'am? Ms. Alford?
MS. ALFORD: This is the central count personnel
that'll be at Central Count when the election judges bring
their equipment back that night that we need appointed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval of the names as
presented.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval as indicated. Further question or discussion? All
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--
in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
MS. ALFORD: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 6; consider,
supposedly had the capability to do something with them since
September the 19th, but every step that I take, I get pushed
back two, because the calculation program in our software is
not working. It took them two weeks after I loaded a
supplemental for 2008's that gave corrected values and
corrected names and addresses before they could figure out
what was wrong. Everything has had to go to development,
which is their, supposedly, guru who does the programs.
Saturday, there were 10 of us up here working on elections,
and I was working on taxes. I ran my statements. The first
thing that came up in 15 seconds was that it could not be
calculated. So I thought, okay, maybe I put something in
wrong in the parameters, and I went back and I was real
careful with it. Same thing. So, I shot off an e-mail, and
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Angel Jared -- Jared Angel, excuse me, from Software.
apparently was working, because he worked on it, and had to
go in and do some kind of a special fix on it so that we
could even run the statements. So, hopefully this morning
it'll be to the point where I can get the statements to the
printer so that we can get statements mailed out. But I
don't see them going out before November 1st.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How late is that? One
I month?
MS. BOLIN: Yeah. Normally, I have my statements
out by the 15th.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two weeks late. And what
if that doesn't come about as you predict?
MS. BOLIN: Then you'll see me again.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll see a lot of angry
taxpayers, too.
MS. BOLIN: Yes, I'm already seeing those, because
the school district's got theirs out. With this, all I can
do -- Software says it's because of HB-1010, which is the
overlapping school districts, which doesn't affect us, but
apparently it affected their whole program. There's not one
step in the 20 steps that I have to do that I have not had to
call and have them do something to.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Am I hearing correctly? Is
this a problem unique to Kerr County? Or --
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MS. BOLIN: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- is it statewide? It's
not unique to Kerr County?
MS. BOLIN: Statewide. As of a week ago -- I guess
a week ago Monday or Tuesday, I had contacted the printer and
asked him how long it would be, and he had only gotten five
of the 20-plus counties that he dealt with with Software.
Because --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you say "Software,"
you're talking about Software --
MS. BOLIN: Tyler Technology.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the company?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Odyssey.
MR. EMERSON: Odyssey.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tyler Technology? Do we
have cause of action, Mr. County Attorney?
I'~ MR. EMERSON: I need more information to make that
decision.
MS. BOLIN: What kind of information do you want?
I'll .gladly get it for you. I am very frustrated with this,
because I have -- even when Ms. Rector was in office, I was
the one who took care of this, and this is.the latest we have
ever been, and I'm not happy with them and they know it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are the -- are our -- the
calculations correct? I mean, we're comfortable that all the
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numbers are right, if we ever get them?
MS. BOLIN: As far as my balancing out as we go,
yes, that part is. One of the things that they did stress to
me was, before it goes to the printer, to check every little
detail of the calculations, so we have to put everything with
DV's, with homesteads, with freezes, that are in the ESD's,
any different type of a calculation, we have to pull someone
and calculate it out and be sure it's calculating correctly.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further questions for Ms. Bolin?
We appreciate your report. Thank you very much.
MS. BOLIN: You're very welcome.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 7, to consider,
discuss, take appropriate action to acknowledge receipt of
the quarterly investment report from Patterson and Associates
for the quarter ending 9-30-08. Ms. Williams, I think the
only requirement is we must acknowledge receipt of the report
itself?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: And beyond that, we take no other
action?
MS. WILLIAMS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move acknowledgment of
the -- receipt of the quarterly investment report from
Patterson and Associates.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move
to Item 8, to consider, discuss, and adopt the 2008/2009 Kerr
County Community Plan for submission to the Alamo Area
Council of Governments. Ms. Lavender?
MS. LAVENDER: Morning, gentlemen. This is just
the step that we take this time every year to submit our
community plan to AACOG, in preparation for grant
applications that come forward around the first of the year.
This plan is nothing, really, a whole lot different from last
year. We had a little bit different input this year, because
Peterson Regional Medical Center participated in it this year
a little more in-depth. And there's a couple little
i
corrections; I used "Hill Country Crisis Council" a couple of
more times in it than I needed to. Need to go back and
change it to "Hill Country Cares," because that's the name
that they're using now. And other than that, I think it's a
pretty done deal.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ms. Lavender, I appreciate
that the work you do is very sensitive to people you work
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with.
MS. LAVENDER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But my question is, what
are the reporting requirements of the grants in terms of
number of cases handled, cases closed, et cetera, et cetera,
et cetera?
MS. LAVENDER: We have to do this through Texas
A & M Public Policy Research Institute. We do quarterly
reports on these grants, all of us do, that are submitted
through them, and then they, in turn, submit it back to the
Governor's office. It's part of our grant requirements.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Most of you are aware, I'm sure, the
process that this community plan has developed through. A
series of meetings are scheduled, are held, in which various
stakeholders and resource groups come in and offer their
input to the plan, and there's a draft plan adopted, and then
follow up with the resource groups and so forth. So, there's
a considerable amount of man hours that go into this thing,
both from Ms. Lavender's standpoint -- particularly from her
standpoint, but also from other resource groups. And, as
most of you know, when it comes to, quote, special projects,
I have a tendency to lay those in Ms. Lavender's lap, and I
appreciate her work. Thank you.
MS. LAVENDER: Thank you, sir.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the
'08-'09 Kerr County Community Plan for submission to AACOG.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
I, JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
'l indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
favor of that motion, signify by raising your right hand.
~'~, (The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
~i (No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Thank you very
much, Ms. Lavender.
MS. LAVENDER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 9; consider and
discuss update on personnel policy and procedures manual by
the Human Resources Department. Commissioner Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir, thank you very
much. I see the Human Resource Department here. Are you
wanting to give us a report?
MS. HYDE: Sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. I did not notify
her prior to this meeting, assuming that she would read the
agenda like normal people do. But if she didn't, that's
fine, because all I'm looking for is -- and I understand that
there's been a considerable amount of work that you guys --
you have actually something to talk about, and et cetera and
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so forth. Here, you figure this out.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you very much.
MS. HYDE: I only made one copy, 'cause it's 89
~ pages.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want to share real
quick? We're going to have a test, right?
MS. HYDE: Absolutely. So, there's one copy that
y'all can look at. It's over 88 pages right now, but the
single page probably would work best, I think, for what
Commissioner Baldwin is looking at. These are some open
issues that we have. And it is difficult trying to get
', everyone together, but everyone has agreed that in November
we want to get it done, because the plan is that during open
enrollment this year, we institute it, so that leaves us
about six weeks. Of course, Gary was supposed to be here
today; we were going to talk about the RFP, but due to some
personal business that he has to attend to, he is requesting
a later date.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For -- a later date for
what? Open 'enrollment?
MS. HYDE: For us to review the health plan.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, okay.
MS. HYDE: And there are some things in there due
to the health plan. Of course, there's been some guidelines
now that the Sheriff is working on as far as courthouse
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security that needs to go in there, policies and procedures
for the Treasurer's office. We also have asked the Auditor's
office to give us some so that they can be put in there.
FMLA is huge this year. Not only do you have the 12 weeks;
you now have 26 weeks for things that are re -- regarding
military. That will not come out till the end of December,
but it is huge. And it's not just mother, father, sister,
brother; it can be a little bit farther displaced outside the
sphere that we're all used to.
JUDGE TINLEY: And it's going to 24 weeks?
MS. HYDE: Twenty-six.
JUDGE TINLEY: Twenty-six?
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Half a year.
MS. HYDE: I'm sorry?
JUDGE TINLEY: Half a year.
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. And that is per year, so it
is huge. But this -- this is kind of what we're -- these are
the last little issues.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you going to have
copies of this for the rest of us? Are we supposed to share
it with Commissioner Baldwin?
MS. HYDE: I would appreciate if y'all would share,
or I can send it to you on e-mail. That way, y'all can
review it, instead of printing it out. Like I said, it's 90
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pages. Is that all right?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, sure, that's fine.
I've got one; you don't have to send me one.
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're going to look at it
and mark it up?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. I'm marking it
up and reading it. It should be through by -- when do you
think you'll have the thing completed and done?
MS. HYDE: We want to do it during open enrollment.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Excuse me?
MS. HYDE: During open enrollment, because then we
have everyone together.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When is open enrollment?
MS. HYDE: Probably be the second week of December.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we got six weeks to get the
final one approved.
MS. HYDE: And out of these, if we can get most of
these, we can get done and then we can update. It's just a
matter of getting them nailed in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are there any -- well, let me
rephrase. I would appreciate you noting the sections that
you think we really need to take a close look at because of
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substantial. changes. I mean, you read the whole thing, and
sometimes it's pretty hard to see the differences. And --
'cause a lot of times it's not really exciting reading. But
if you were. to highlight those sections that are -- that you
think are critical for us to take a close look at, I'd
appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Very diplomatic,
Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I will say I attended a
couple of those sessions, and there was input from every
department into this policy.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And so it's not going to be a
surprise to anybody. And some of the things were negotiated,
saying, well, you know, maybe it's not good for my office,
but. it may be okay for yours. But, you know, I think it was
a good process, and everybody got along pretty well. Nobody
got in a fight. You know, no blood-letting or anything like
that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No auditing.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Huh-uh, I'm not going to get
into that. But, anyway, I --
JUDGE TINLEY: Good news.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It was a good process.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, so, December -- the
second week in December sometime, we --
MS. HYDE: When we do open enrollment, 'cause
that'll give us a chance with everyone, plus it also detracts
the S.O.; they're different. Juvenile Detention, they're
different. So, it will be much, much easier to get them all
together.
'~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good. I'd like to
see us have this thing up and running and approved by at
least, like, January 1, 'cause I'm thinking -- my thoughts
are that this may be a tool in these, in my mind, serious
evaluations that we're going to do this next year. And I
think that this would be very valuable to that, so that we
can see -- that we can sit down and take a look at the entire
overall program of who we are and what we're doing and what
we have to work with in order to make some serious decisions
with personnel.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right about
this being the forerunner of our evaluation policy. And any
discussion that we're supposed to have with Ms. Hyde on that
should come after this is --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems that -- I see your
hand, Sheriff. It seems that it would probably be helpful if
we could have it on our second November meeting, at least for
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us to make the .first pass at. That way, if there's any
changes, it will get approved at the first December meeting,
which I think will be the 8th. That way -- I mean, to get
it --
MS. HYDE: The last meeting in November?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to get it done by open
enrollment, we have to see it the first time, I'm thinking,
second meeting in November.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde, do you have the ability to
either highlight or redline new areas?
MS. HYDE: Sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think that'll address the concerns
that Commissioner Letz has. And, also, some of the things
that are going to be proposed here are some significant
changes of what we've had in the past. Some of the things
that are going to be proposed are -- and like Commissioner
Oehler, I was at some of these sessions, and there was a
totally wide-open free exchange of ideas by anybody that was
there. Everybody had the opportunity to participate, and I
think that was a good thing. But --
MS. HYDE: And we had our legal.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- things are going to be brand-new,
and folks may not be expecting that, and so -- we've not
dealt with them before. So, if you could highlight or
redline or in some manner call attention to -- to new things
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', that you're putting in there, significant changes, I think it
would be very helpful.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: From a -- a copy -- if we're
looking at highlighting in that light gray, it makes the
printing a whole lot quicker than doing -- the color really
slows it down.
JUDGE TINLEY: Redline.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Redline really slows down the
printing process. But if you do that -- whatever you call
that highlighting --
MS. HYDE: What I've got going is a sheet like this
as well, and it tells you the page number and the section.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good.
MS. HYDE: And that way, you've got kind of a cheat
sheet, like change, change, change, change. And there's
asterisks, two, three, one. One is probably need to look at,
two is probably need to review, and three is, like, huge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's going to be some
issues that come up that we may need Commissioners Court
approval on before the policy manual actually even comes out,
.such as, you know, comp time issues or overtime issues.
Because when you get into my department, it's a whole lot
different than -- than what we can do with the other
departments, unless you want to drastically up an overtime
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budget, the way I handle it. I mean, you'd have to triple my
overtime budget if we pay it immediately, as -- as can be
worked out with the rest of the county. But I don't --
there's some that we may need to come separately to do, or to
get some opinions on before it goes --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We meet in two weeks.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we can discuss it, because
if those benefits -- I know most of the policy is manual is
not going to affect my department at all, but if the -- the
benefits part, I think, probably should be, you know, equal
across, all county employees. But it just can really have
some drastic effects if we don't settle those with the Court,
'cause I don't have the authority to, and I don't think that
she does. It's going to be stuff that will have to be worked
out.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's one of the reasons
that Commissioner Letz wanted to be able to take up some of
these items ahead of the actual rollout date, to have some
draft. runs at it, so that if there's any changes or
modifications that need to be made or there's any heads-up
that needs to be given, we'll have the opportunity to do
that. And we could start as early as the first meeting in
November, but certainly not later than --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The second.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- the second meeting in November.
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And if we need to do a special meeting --
MS. HYDE: Well, that's what I was going to ask.
Can we do, .like, a workshop where everyone can get together?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That might be the better
!, approach.
MS. HYDE: And people can still interchange ideas,
'cause I think it's kind of difficult in the courtroom
setting, and then it's real difficult trying to talk to
y'all, because I can only talk to two at a time.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think a workshop setting
is a better approach. Discuss it openly. We can hear from
you and so forth.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can't talk to two at a
time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Twice.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twice. You can't talk to those
two and these two.
MS. HYDE: Okay. That's what I'm saying; I can't
talk to y'all like --
JUDGE TINLEY: But we can..
MS. HYDE: -- would be easy.
MR. EMERSON: Stop while you're ahead.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Workshop.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else on this agenda
item, folks?
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MS. HYDE: So, will y'all set the workshop, or do
you want me to ask you to set one?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you're ready, let us
know.
MS. HYDE: What's two -- what's two weeks from --
what about next Wednesday? Is that not the 5th?
JUDGE TINLEY: Day after the election.
MS. HYDE: I don't have a calendar in front of me.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It'd be the 5th, day after
the election.
MS. HYDE: We're requesting a special meeting for
the health insurance stuff on the 5th anyhow, which is a
Wednesday, so that would be -- like, we could do a two-fer.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could do health insurance
and the policy.
MS. HYDE: And that way, you guys aren't having to
come in multiple times.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't matter, but it's
okay to get two things done in one day.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The 5th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When do we have to canvass the
I ballots?
JUDGE TINLEY: 13th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 13th.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's always a short deal.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's another -- I mean,
that's another --
JUDGE TINLEY: It has a very narrow time frame.
Not less than 9 or more than 13, I think is the language
there. So --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But that's -- the 13th, that
will be a relatively short one. That's another good day for
a workshop.
MS. HYDE: Okay, 11-5.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Would the 13th be better for
you? Give you more time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whichever works. Either one,
the 5th or 13th, are good days to do workshops.
MS. HYDE: We might want to do both.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe.
MS. HYDE: 'Cause some of these issues --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Follow up on the 13th.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Depends on what time of day
on the 13th. There's a potential conflict you and I might
have.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: And I've got two different dockets
on that day. Any Thursday, I've got two different dockets.
Wednesdays are generally good days for me.
MS. HYDE: Well, you want to try the 5th and the
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12th?
JUDGE TINLEY: Except for the 12th, I've already
got -- got loaded.
MS. HYDE: Okay. Well, we could do the 5th and
then do court.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then decide what we're
going --
MS. HYDE: And decide when we're going to do the
next one.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Af
MS. HYDE: I'm open.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is
JUDGE TINLEY: 1:30 on
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
ternoon on the 5th?
Afternoon.
that a Wednesday?
Wednesday?
1:30 Wednesday, the 5th,
~ workshop.
MS. HYDE: And I'll e-mail this draft to everyone
so you'll have it this evening for your reading pleasure.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We got everything we need
there. Let's go ahead and do Item 10; consider, discuss,
take appropriate action to approve or disapprove a Kerr
Central Appraisal District budget amendment to add to the
building reserve account for costs related to potential
building, renovation, or other modifications deemed
necessary, such account to be funded with surplus funds left
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over from the Appraisal District's 2007 operating budget.
This was submitted to us by the Appraisal District for
consideration.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make -- I have no problem
with doing this. I think it's a good way to do it, as long
as all other entities likewise do it. So, I'll make a motion
that we approve their request that they keep the overage,
which the Kerr County part is $3,924.51, as long as all other
entities do likewise.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Further question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, how -- and if the
other entities -- if one entity out of the group does not,
then we don't? Is that what you're saying?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd want to look at it again,
because then all of a sudden we start paying a different
percentage over where we're supposed to be, in my mind. And
it depends on who it is. If it's, you know --
JUDGE TINLEY: Headwaters.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- Spring Creek Road District
for $1.48, we'll probably go ahead and do it. But if it's
K.I.S.D., I think it will have -- we probably want to know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've done it before.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's fine.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All
in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's quickly do
our 10:30 item; consider, discuss, and take appropriate
action to approve the revised proposal for engineering
services from L. Wayne Wells, professional engineer.
Mr. Odom?
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Good morning. Mr. Wells
contracts engineering services for the Road and Bridge
Department and bills Kerr County Road and Bridge. Kerr
County Road and Bridge Department then bills the developer or
property owner. We've included a recent invoice for
Mr. Wells' current rates. At this time, Mr. Wells asks that
you review and consider for approval the revised proposal
which would go into effect November the lst, 2008, and be
effective through November the 1st, 2010. You have that
proposal and the other accompanying data. If you have any
questions, Wayne is here to answer any questions about that
~~, proposal.
JUDGE TINLEY: As I read it, it was primarily just
an hourly rate increase.
MR. ODOM: That is correct, sir, and mileage.
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JUDGE TINLEY: More than reasonable, in my opinion.
More than reasonable.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine, I have no problem.
Does it have any negative budget impact from your standpoint?
That you can't handle?
MR. ODOM: I think I increased it. I think I added
a little bit this year.
MS. HOFER: 2,000 or 3,000, you added.
MR. ODOM: So maybe we won't be -- I was a little
bit concerned that I maybe kept it the same, but I think I
increased it a little bit to cover any exposure, so I think
we'll be all right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item and the revised proposal.
Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I-see Mr. Wells in the back. I
want to thank him. It's worked out real well. This is,
what, the third year? We're going into the fourth year?
MR. ODOM: Third, I think.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third year. Anyway, it's --
this has been very cost-effective, I think, to the
taxpayers -- our taxpayers. We're getting -- and we're
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getting engineering services that we need, which I think it's
a real good solution for how we're handling our Road and
Bridge.
MR. ODOM: It's been very helpful.
JUDGE TINLEY: And I think it's worked well with
the developers. I think it's been an effective way for them
to do business.. They know exactly who to talk to, and their
engineers can talk to Mr. Wells; they speak the same
language. Probably both of them went to A & M.
MR. WELLS: Not me.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're not an A & M grad?
MR. WELLS: No, I'm not.
JUDGE TINLEY: That may be the only drawback that
you've got, then, being able to communicate.
MR. WELLS: I was going to be a chemical engineer,
and I went to Lamar Tech, which at the time was the chemical
engineering school in the state.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. WELLS: And then wound up having a real good
professor that they ran off. But, because when I was still
there, the American Society of Civil Engineers, junior
chapter, wound up winning the Robert Ridgeway award, which
was the outstanding student chapter in the United States.
Beat out -- it was us and Arlington. A & M wasn't that
active in their student chapter.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness.
MR. ODOM: Most of us were in Vietnam.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're still recommending
him?
MR. WELLS: And there's a corrected copy for you to
execute, Your Honor.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I offer --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I believe there's already a
motion on the table.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And authorize County Judge to
sign same; add that to the motion. I think I made it, didn't
I?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Any further question or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go
ahead and take about a 15-minute recess.
(Recess taken from 10:37 a.m. to 10:58 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if
we might. We were in recess. And we'll take up Item 11;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action to authorize
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issuance of a Request for Proposals for mass notification
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. This is
known as Reverse 911, this whole process has come of age and
is really good. At the outset, I want to thank Bill Amerine
and the 911 people for doing several things, not the least of
which was arranging for demonstrations of the various vendors
for the reverse notification software, our Internet packages
that they offer. Commissioner Oehler and I witnessed several
of those, or some of those, and Mr. Amerine also for helping
in -- in defining what the system's uses would be, which are
incorporated in this. But, just for the record, and to
remind people what this is all about, Kerr County would be
accepting proposals for qualified firms to provide a robust,
interactive, high-speed notification system that can send
notifications to pre-identified recipients, as well as to
geographically identified recipients using a GIS geographic
system interface. The system must be capable of being
configured to send notifications to thousands of contacts,
including staff, associates, and First Responders of Kerr
County, as well as citizens and members of the general
public. System must be available to initiate/deliver
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notifications 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
Sheriff has also participated in, and had his chief deputy
there, I think, probably more than Rusty was, but he too has
to issue an RFP, and get the proposals back from those
vendors who provide this type of service. We have budgeted
money for it this year, and so what remains to be seen is how
much the vendors are going to charge us for it. Sheriff,
would you like to add anything to that?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing -- I did review
what they came up with. I didn't come up with it. It is an
excellent program, and it does need to be done. The RFP's
that I saw were great. The only thing that I would suggest,
or -- or do later, not part of the RFP, I think you have to
be real specific on exactly what it's going to be used for.
Some of the things in the RFP are great to have there so that
we know what its capabilities will be, but I don't
necessarily agree that they would be considered in the
guidelines once it's -- once it's in place, to be used for
those items. I think you have to look at it kind of like the
statewide Amber Alert program. There are some very specific
uses for that, and no other uses, so that it doesn't end up
being a, you know, kid that cried wolf type situation. You
really want people to pay attention to it. But the RFP I saw
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looked great, and I'm -- I've been in favor of something like
this, and been seeing some of these different programs for
the last eight, ten years, and they have a fabulous
possibility of saving lives along the river, you know, or
helping during manhunts or different things that could really
be beneficial.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the point you make
is valid, Sheriff. We don't want it to be used to advertise
everybody's little bake sale. But for all the many, many
things we'd use it for, I think the Court, along with
recommendations from your department and I.T., you can frame
the utilization that's required.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause I think our website can
give notice for a lot of things that you don't want to use
this type of --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- system for.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move approval of
the issuance of RFP for mass notification systems and
advertise same as required.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You said that it's possible
for thousands of notifications. Now, let's just use the
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flood as an example here. So, there would be automatic phone
calls to just people that's living in the floodplain, or how
-- how does that work? Are they going to call the
Commissioner who lives on top of the hill out here?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No -- that's a good
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't we call the
Commissioner living out on top of the hill?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, we can put that in
of them. But I remember -- I remember early on, Carl Meek
used to tell me about how -- which, Bruce, I'm sure you can
confirm this -- how the camp owners, people who live way up
on the river would call down below and they would relay the
calls as the river was coming down in a flood situation.
This works the same way, except electronically. You can take
your stylus on a Kerr County map, and you can identify the
exact area. You can do the whole river basin if you wish to
do so. You can do the first segment, second segment, third
segment, however you wish to do it, to notify in the case of
a flood, and those calls will go out and tell people, "Here's
the problem. Here's the problem. Here's the problem." You
can do it. And take, for example, the Kerrville South fire
that we had here a few years back; you remember that vividly.
We could have notified -- with this system, we could have
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notified everybody, not only within the area, but within the
mile or two miles or whatever, that the fire that's raging
out of control was coming your way, and you would be out --
be out of harm's way. It just offers up so much potential in
terms of mass notification of our population for whatever the
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you mentioned
manhunt. Are people notified about a -- about a manhunt?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If we can -- well --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that. He could
-- if he had a prison break -- prisoner break, or from his
jail or from somebody who came into Kerr County, had a
general idea of where that person might be in the county, we
could outline that area and put out a notice that he would --
he would say what he wanted to say to the people, and put
that notification out, and it would be just to those people
within the area that you've identified.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Such as the Seard -- using it,
you know. If we all remember, when that happened -- I know
Jonathan and Commissioner Williams both got hundreds of phone
calls while we were trying to investigate that case, because
everybody felt that there was somebody on the loose that was
threatening you know, every resident around. And you can --
you can, in just a matter of minutes, you know, design the
message that's going to go out, okay? And then, with the
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stylus, just draw out what sector or what part of the county
or what, you know, homes, however you want to do it, where it
goes. Program that in, and it will automatically call all
those people and let them know. So, some of those kind of
things can be very beneficial. The fires are -- are
excellent, because it saves my manpower trying to get back,
and where are the homes in this area? I don't know who
lives, you know, 5 miles back in the brush in this area that
has a phone or anything where a fire is moving to. We can
notify these people.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's next to impossible
now without that technology.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, you just can't do it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't do it the way they
can do it. The technology's there, and there's so many --
however many hundreds of -- thousands of calls can go out in
a matter of a few minutes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And notify everybody almost
immediately, and not have somebody sitting there dialing the
phone, trying to locate, you know, who lives there and what
their phone numbers are.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's a flood and
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and you outline that with your little stylus, or however you
do it. Can you go over here, like, 5 miles up Lane Valley
and put a square around Letz' house to let him know?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That there's a flood?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, there's a flood.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd probably just call him.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It'd probably be -- you could
do it. What you have to do is program in that stylus where
you've drawn out that section; then you also would have to
manually go in and put his phone number.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
call policies that -- which is what we have going, is the
best way.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what you can do,
Commissioner. You can take that -- if the river is coming
down heavy and it's causing all of the tributaries to back
up, you can identify those areas on the tributaries and
notify these people as well.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, such as up Lane Valley.
You may want to notify everybody that's up Lane Valley,
because their main exit out of that area is going to be a
river crossing.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not even sure they have
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telephone service back up in there. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We use cans, string.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pigeons.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pigeons.
JUDGE TINLEY: Smoke signals.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, how long do you plan --
this is, I guess, like a template? It looks like -- I don't
see the actual dates filled in.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have some tweaking to do
to get it ready for publication, 'cause this came over from
911, and I didn't fill in all the blanks. I filled in the
important ones, but Jody and I will work to clean it up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You'll -- but you'll have it
out for two weeks? A month? Probably a month. This is kind
of a technical one.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so, yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think you've answered the question
I had, and that is whether Mr. Amerine had participation
in -- in this RFP that's going out.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's essential that -- that
he have input because of the expertise and the position that
he holds.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He did, Judge, and he gave
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me the suggested parameters.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I then took that and put it
in here, sent it to the Sheriff to take a look at, sent it to
I.T. to take a look at, and I.T. came back and said he didn't
have anything to add. Sheriff was content with what we've
got. So, anything we do now is just a little minor tweaking.
JUDGE TINLEY: And your intention is, in this
tweaking, to work with Mr. Amerine to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If there's anything else
that they need input for, yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure. Sure.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other question or
discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to
Item 13; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to
grant a variance to Kerr County Flood Prevention Order for a
home in Westwood Oaks located in Precinct 4. Mr. Odom.
I
~, MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. It came to our attention
there was a new home being constructed into Zone A, which is
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an unstudied area of FEMA designated floodplain in Westwood
Oaks, Precinct 4, which is behind Greenwood Forest. The home
is well on the way to being finished. FEMA requires a
finished floor at or above the B.F.E. Kerr County's Flood
Prevention Order requires a finished floor of a structure to
be 1 foot above the base flood elevation or the B.F.E. The
elevation certificate done by the surveyor shows their home
is two-tenths of a foot above the B.F.E. Therefore, they
meet FEMA regulations, but fall short of Kerr County's by
less than eight-tenths of a foot: Since it would be
impossible to raise the house, we ask the Court to grant a
variance to Kerr County's Flood Prevention Order and allow us
to issue a development permit. Now, this may be -- a month
or six weeks ago, we came in here with the same situation.
These two places were offset -- I mean, in the same vicinity
right there. We finally got this one done to be able to
certify that -- where we're at with the B.F.E. So, I ask the
Court -- it is permissible. We're -- that's federal law.
They're at or above by 2 and a half inches, and you're not
going to be able to raise the concrete slab.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is the other one going to
follow?
MR. ODOM: The other one has already been done.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We did that about a month
~ ago?
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MR. ODOM: We did that one before, sir. We gave a
variance to our court order.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have no problem with this
one, but I think we ought to change our floodplain order to
be consistent with FEMA. Seems to me it makes a lot more
sense. I'd rather not do the variances. That's a different
topic, I know. You might want to put that on the next
agenda; we can discuss that at the next meeting, please.
MR. ODOM: We'll discuss it. I think it's safer
and more prudent to stay where it's at. We're not changing
the federal regulations, only to our -- if we had known that,
maybe we could have changed it. But I -- you know, this
house was framed, everything. I mean, we can be at or above.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's my precinct. I move
approval of --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item to grant the variance. Question
or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll move to
Item 14; to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action --
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do we have an 11 o'clock
timed item?
JUDGE TINLEY: 11:30, I thought. We do have
11 o'clock. My apologies. My apologies.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Hate to interrupt.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's at the top of the page; I had
it covered. Let's move to the 11 o'clock timed item, Item
18; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on request
from National Wild Turkey Federation to be added to the
nonprofit list for the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center.
Mr. Snow?
MR. SNOW: Good morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: Are you the head turkey in this
outfit?
MR. SNOW: For the record, my name is Billy Dan
Snow. I'm .here today representing the National Wild Turkey
Federation with our Heart of the Hills chapter, as the
Treasurer of that chapter. Your Honor, members of the Court,
we are a national organization. We -- we serve in the
capacity of one of 56 chapters within the state of Texas that
fund NWTF. The primary focus, and everything of -- of the
National Wild Turkey Federation is conservation, and has been
habitat management, but a lot of our funds go into youth and
other organizations. I also hold a dual chair right now; I
am the 4-H liaison on the state NWTF board. But somehow,
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while working through the -- the booking and requirements, we
realized that we were not on the approved list, which has an
effect on our fees of our annual banquet that are generally
held in March, and we're currently booked for March 8th, I
believe, of this coming year, or '09. We would respectfully
ask that we be classed -- which we are a fully set up
501(c)(3) organization -- for the same treatment as other
organizations of that stature.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. My
apologies, Mr. Snow, --
MR. SNOW: That's quite all right. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- for running over a bit. I
just -- I wasn't with it at that moment.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be Billy Dan.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Billy Dan.
.COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Billy Dan Snow.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, let's go back to Item
14, if we might, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate
action to abandon, vacate, and discontinue the 21.20-acre
portion of land from the recorded plat of Comanche Caves
Ranch, as set forth in Volume 4, Page 209, Plat Records, and
set a public hearing for Monday, December the 8th, 2008, at
10 a.m., the same being located in Precinct 4.
MR. ODOM: Wrong page. Comanche Caves owners'
association are requesting that the 21.2-acre portion of
Naroni Ranch be abandoned, vacated, and discontinued from the
recorded plat of Comanche Caves Ranch, Volume 4, Page 209.
Michael Vlasek and wife, Sandra Vlasek, are the owners of
this 21.2 acres of land. At this time, we ask that you
accept the concept plan for this. abandonment for the said
21.2 acres in Naroni Ranch from the Comanche Caves Ranch
recorded plat, and set a public hearing for Monday, December
the 8th, 2008, at 10 a.m. And I believe that there is
counsel here to address any questions on this. This is in
Precinct 4, and I believe this is an agreement with
everybody, and, and with --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mr. Vlasek agrees with this?
MR. ODOM: To my knowledge, that he does.
MR. JACKSON: David Jackson, 820 Main. He does.
They've signed the settlement agreement. I've talked to --
not him directly, but indirectly, and before we come to a
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public hearing, he'll sign something to make it clear, and
we'll finish the rest of the settlement documents.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: .That's the only question I
had.
MR. JACKSON: I just need to be sure that's the
proper procedure, and the proper way in which the Court would
like to have it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: David, what -- why are we
doing -- why are they doing this? I don't get it.
MR. JACKSON: They had a controversy.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. JACKSON: And they resolved the controversy by
agreeing to remove certain portions that are owned by
Mr. Vlasek from Comanche Caves restrictions, et cetera, and
part of that is to get it out of the plat. The controversy
centered around access on Lange Ravine Road.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
MR. JACKSON: And so they document the access, and
i yet they get straight of how the neighbors are going to live
with one another in terms of restrictions and platting and so
forth.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Lange Ravine is a county
public-owned road that goes all the way -- used to be a
bumper gate back there. I don't know whether it's there any;
more.
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MR. JACKSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Remember that?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, I lived there.
MR. JACKSON: Back entrance to Comanche Caves.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We actually own the road,
~ right?
MR. ODOM: We own down by Mrs. Vlasek's property.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Doesn't go all the way to
Comanche --
MR. ODOM: Doesn't go all the way. That was a
private agreement with Mrs. Vlasek.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. So, therein lies the
~ problem.
MR. ODOM: Therein lies the problem.
MR. JACKSON: So, that's been -- and they actually
.had a mediation trying to get this settled, and I've been
asked to document it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is interesting. Cool.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move we set a public
hearing for Monday, December the 8th, 2008, at 10 a.m., and
in regard to the agenda item, for -- concerning Comanche
Caves --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- Ranch, and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said second, then you kept on
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talking.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I didn't hear what you
said. Speak up. To discontinue the 21.2-acre portion of
land from recorded plat of Comanche Caves.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second.
Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
MR. ODOM: Is the wording that he gave appropriate
for "abandon, vacate, discontinue"? Or --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think I read it off the --
MR. ODOM: If you read it like we had it, we're
fine. Because sometimes that's -- we miss a word. And I'm
not a lawyer, but --
JUDGE TINLEY: I think it was after -- after the
confusion about the second coming early that he included the
I! language --
MR. ODOM: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- in the motion to abandon, vacate,
and discontinue that 21.2-acre portion from the recorded plat
of Comanche Caves.
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MR. ODOM: Alb right, sir.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I think I said.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I understood you to say that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what I heard.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll move on to Item 15;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the
bond for Leonard Odom, Jr., with First Insurance Agency.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. I have my name down here, but
I think Jody sent us -- my bond was expired. The insurance
company -- or the bonding agency didn't send it to Mindy, and
my understanding is -- is we signed everything a good while
back, and then we get it back and I resign it again. So, I
want to bring it forward to you to authorize my -- you know,
for this bond to go through for me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
MR. ODOM: I told them I graduated from Texas, and
then they hesitated at that point, if I was an Aggie.
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(Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: I noted that he mentioned that after
he got approval of the agenda item.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And before the football game.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Okay, let's move to Item 16;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the
contract with Kerr Economic Development Foundation, Big
Brothers and Sisters, Comfort Volunteer Fire Department, Elm
Pass Volunteer Fire Department, Turtle Creek Volunteer Fire
Department, Center Point Volunteer Fire Department, Castle
Lake Volunteer Fire Department, and allow County Judge to
sign same. Mr. Emerson, these are essentially just renewals
of the old contracts that are going forward? Same language
and so forth?
(Mr. Emerson nodded.)
', COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval; authorize
County Judge to sign same.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval as indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor
of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to
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Item 17; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to honor
request from Texas Association for Home Care to declare
November 2008 as Home Care and Hospice month in Kerr County.
I get these requests to come in; I routinely put them on the
agenda for these organizations that claim they've got this --
this particular month or week or whatever.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move approval.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, you may need hospice or home
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Bill, I
request for Mr. Gary Elzner to adopt a resolution proclaiming
October as Czech Heritage Month in Kerr County. This one
we've done before, but instead of doing it as a continuing
thing in October of every year, we just did it for a specific
year, so he's back. So, the one we're going to do now
would -- would put us in a position not to have to do this
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every year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move
to Item 20, to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action
to collect mental health court costs from Maverick County.
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir. Received some information
from the County Clerk's office approximately a month and a
half ago. Maverick County owes Kerr County a little over
$5,000 in attorney's fees, court costs, and so forth on the
mental health docket. The clerk's office has been trying to
collect this money since December of '07 without success.
I've forwarded a letter September 29th to the County Judge,
the County Attorney, and the Auditor. Neither the Clerk's
office nor myself has received any response at all. So, at
this point, our only option is to turn up the fire a little
bit. So, I'd like approval --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that consist of?
MR. EMERSON: Well, several phone calls and .another
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stern letter, and if that doesn't work, then we'll file a
revocation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll move approval.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question
or discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If they -- how long have we
been having that problem with them?
MR. EMERSON: This is the only one I know of,
I and --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With Maverick?
MR. EMERSON: -- in the Clerk's office, they've
been trying to collect for almost a year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And they just ignore us?
Is that the deal?
MR. EMERSON: Basically.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I'm not mistaken, Maverick
County has been in financial straits because they built a
large jail that they couldn't get anyone to use.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they just got a contract
with, I believe, federal marshals to fill that jail up, which
will solve their problems, 'cause they're almost in
bankruptcy, I think. Maybe this will -- I mean, that's not
an excuse. That may be, you know, part of their problems.
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But they may have some -- be more inclined to settle this
thing as cash comes in. I think they have some real
problems.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think they built that jail based
on assurances from the feds that if they built it, the feds
would come. And they built it, and the feds didn't come, and'
so now they're trying to get it resolved that way. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Federal, I believe, prisoners
are moving in as we speak today.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I saw something about that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion on
that motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, if -- you know,
whether its $5,000 or $5, I hope that you do everything in
your power to go after it. I mean, that's just not the right
-- they're not conducting themselves in the right way.
MR. EMERSON: Well, it's one thing to respond and
say, "We're in financial straits. We're waiting on the jail
to fill up, and can you work with us?" And it's another
thing to completely ignore us.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you need a motion to --
JUDGE TINLEY: We've already got one.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Already got it.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All
in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to
Item 21; to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to
pursue environmental health enforcement on property located
at 170 Center Point River Road East.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I might add, in Precinct 2,
if there's any question.
MR. GARCIA: Morning, gentlemen.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning.
MR. GARCIA: June 26th, 2008, Environmental Health
Road East, which is known as Dave's Place Bar and Grill and
Pottery. The concerns of the complaint were the added
structures, and if the square footage would accommodate the
on-site sewage facility that is currently being operated
there. Environmental Health did inspect and found the
residence and bar and grill, because it is being operated as
such -- the owner states he is living there and he's
operating a bar and grill. Found it to be in violation of
operating a permitted system -- an altered permitted system
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by having the bar and grill operate on the same system. The
system that is in place is rated for 150 gallons per day and
550 square foot, single-family dwelling..
We pursued with a letter of violation, and we did
So,
following state agencies were notified: Food Establishments
Group, Region 8, Department of Health, T.A.B.C., and the
South Texas Watermaster. Each of these agencies made their
investigation. The one that we had gained cooperation from
was T.A.B.C. Once T.A.B.C. issued an administrative warning
that the license could be revocated, miraculously, we started
getting cooperation. To this point, we have received
planning materials. However, again, with a bar and grill or
restaurant-type establishment, we get them in the department,
we do our review, and then I submit them to T.C.E.Q. for
further review or any comments from T.C.E.Q. on these
systems.
Today we are asking, through the County Attorney,
that we get permission from the Court for an injunction.
Again, I have planning materials, but we have questions on
the planning materials that I'm still waiting to be answered.
Water records indicate it's up and down; it's like a roller
coaster. We have high water usage, then we don't, then we do
again. So, the water records are kind of -- it was really
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hard to determine the actual use. He is drawing water from
the river, which the South Texas Watermaster's report says
that	there is	no violation, because he's	using it to water
his	livestock	-- his domestic livestock.	And he also uses it
for some kind of evaporative cooler for his own use. Other
than that, we are currently waiting for answers from his
registered sanitarian and professional engineer.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What will -- Ray, what
will -- or counselor, what will an injunction do?
MR. EMERSON: Well, at this -- let me tell you --
let me add one more piece to the puzzle. The department has
previously received communications from design specialists
that were obtained by that property owner, and then once the
specifications came in and he looked at the cost, he
terminated that relationship. So, this thing's been
stringing on for a little bit, running that kind of roller
coaster. If they do not specify the proper answers and/or
the design specification changes to fit these requirements,
then the injunction will essentially shut him down from any
kind of discharge.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, in other words, he won't
be able to function as a -- but he does comply with
single-family dwelling, 150 gallons per day?
MR. GARCIA: Well, see, that's one of the
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when the South Texas Watermaster made his investigation,
Mr. John had told him that, "This is my residence and bar and
grill." So, because he's operating the bar and grill there,
it doesn't comply with what the system was ~--
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's pretend that there was
no -- no --
MR. GARCIA: There was no bar and grill?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- bar and grill there; it's
just his residence. Then he does comply?
MR. GARCIA: There are still questions in that --
no, he doesn't, because there's added square footage to that
piece of property there. We haven't -- we haven't received
any of the -- the square footage --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's not just square
footage that runs this thing. It's the amount of restrooms,
huh?
MR. EMERSON: There's other issues too, such as
improvements have been built over drain fields and that type
situation, so the system can't function as it was originally
designed prior to this point.
COMMTSSIONER WILLIAMS: There are a couple of
things -- a lot of things going on there. As the counselor
noted, he built a fish pond over a drain field. We have a --
we have a rain forest, and so I think that his response to
the Texas Watermaster was a bit disingenuous in terms of
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utilization of evaporative coolers. Evaporative coolers are
for his rain forest, generating humidity so all his tropical
exotic plants can survive. And you have fowl also, all sorts
of manner of fowl running in and out of the restaurant
premises. You have what was originally accepted for design
for one cabin, one-person or two-person cabin, and now you
got a restaurant operating on top of all that, and no grease
traps and so forth and so on. On top of that, then you've
got two rooms built up on top of a structure, which
ostensibly, I guess, was supposed to be hotel rooms, with no
showers, no facilities, no nothing. Other than that, things
are good.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, this is a great story.
Are you saying fowl? F-o-w-1?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Birds, guineas, peacocks.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guineas, peacocks, hens,
whatever.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you telling me you're
taking us to lunch there today?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Dang.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly after this
motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a pretty popular hangout.
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~~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it really?
',
MR. GARCIA: It does go -- I'm sorry, I could have
went totally into-depth on that, but, you know, we could be
here for a while, because this case does go back a few years
also.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, it does.
MR. GARCIA: The enforcement case on that. And I
didn't think it would apply.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, the injunction, is that --
I mean, if we just -- if we do what y'all are asking us to do
today, that gives you kind of flexibility to hold this
injunction over them multiple times, if needed?
MR. EMERSON: Correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Took Bill right out of there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is it your intent to eliminate the
-- the annual international chicken races that occur at that
location?
MR. EMERSON: Well, if I did --
JUDGE TINLEY: That is the site of the world
championship -- annual world championship international
chicken races.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It is, and I have been there
when it went on.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, indeed, it is.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And it raises funds for camp.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's kind of a neat place, if
they'd just get in compliance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right. If he'd get
in compliance, that's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are. you going to abstain?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I'm not going to
abstain. Are you kidding me?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, the County Attorney was
noncommittal on the elimination of the world championship
chicken races, but he wants to leave his options open on
that. Any further question or discussion on the motion? All
in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to
our 11:30 timed item, Item 25, to consider, discuss, take
appropriate action on proposed site plan for the Hill Country
Youth Exhibit Center and surrounding property. "Surrounding
property," does that go all the way down here to the
courthouse?
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MR. LEWIS: Not that-far.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay..
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Should we send out for some
~' pizza? I've seen this guy in action before.
MR. LEWIS: I'll talk fast. I was just going to
say, I'll bet you the chicken sandwiches at the bar and grill
are fresh. (Laughter.) Off the record.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No off the record here,
~ buddy.
MR. LEWIS: I'm sorry. I've got a board I'm going
to put up as well; bear with me. Rusty, I'm going to put
this in front of you.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They'd like for you to block
me anyhow, so go ahead.
JUDGE TINLEY: Put it in front of the Sheriff.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They would rather I be blocked
from their view anyhow.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you were really
high-tech, you'd be using this big screen.
MR. LEWIS: Well, I am, but I'm not on time, so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You guys need to have your
cameras.. This is an exciting step right here. I mean that.
It really and truly is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Peter, why don't you show --
Peter?
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MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Show it so they can see. We
can look at our -- tilt it kind of halfway.
MR. LEWIS: Yeah. How's that?
JUDGE TINLEY: There you go.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's good.
MR. LEWIS: Can everybody see this?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's got copies.
MR. LEWIS: I got some copies. I didn't bring
enough for everybody. Didn't bring enough snacks for
everybody. This is the existing site plan. Your Honor,
members of the Court, I'm Peter Lewis, and I appreciate the
opportunity to be here this morning to present what is a
culmination of a long process that we have been going through
with the Commissioners. As y'all recall, last month we
conducted a workshop with Commissioners over at the Hill
Country Youth Exhibit Center, and at that time we reviewed
the program space, program activities, et cetera, for this
property, as well as we presented to you four different
schemes, conceptual schemes for use of the property. What
I'm here to show you this morning is in response to the
feedback that you provided during that, where you looked at
the schemes we presented, chose one that seemed to have most
of the attributes, and selected some attributes from some of
the other schemes.
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Briefly, I'll go over what the program that we
followed was, and the existing indoor arena is at the
center -- centerpiece of that property, and that is a
building that is going to stay. And that and the 4-H
pavilion are the .two that will stay as-is. We have proposed,
based on the program requirements discussed with
Commissioners, a new show barn, a new show facility. That
will be an indoor facility, 45,000 square feet, and a new
exhibit and an event center that will be approximately 30,000
square feet, and it will have -- it will be comprised of
multi -- large and small multi-purpose spaces, office space
and the support things that go with that, a large
catering-type kitchen, and as you can see -- and I'll walk
through the site plan in a minute, but we also propose to put
the Kerr County Extension Offices in that building for
economy, for a number of reasons.
The 4-H pavilion is shown. There is -- there is
work that has been going on there to make it usable, and it
is -- by the time -- even as we speak, that work is being
completed. And then the -- the final piece, not necessarily
in sequence, but the final piece of that is moving the
outdoor arena. And, in fact, if we were to look at a phasing
of this, the outdoor arena relocation would be the very first
piece in order to free up other pieces of the property. When
we met with you last month, we kind of -- we posed the
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question that we had posed to ourselves. What makes this
plan -- or what makes our planning effort significantly
different than the last master plan that the County
envisioned? And we struggled, because the given, the indoor
property, approximately 25 acres, that is now in fence.
Some of the things that have changed since the last
master plan study was considered is that this River Star
Park, the 7 acres that the County is leasing to the Arts and
Crafts Educational Foundation, has been developed and is now
being used as an outdoor event facility. But we -- we took a
step back and looked at, really, all of the property that the
County has use of. And when we first looked at this, we
thought of just this -- the fenced acreage, but when we did
finally step back, we realized we've got these two grand
parks on the banks of the river that really -- and, you know,
with the River Star event park developed, you have the
opportunity for use and -- and cross-use of all of this land
and these facilities. And so we envision this -- instead of
just this 25 acres, we envision the entire area that includes
Flat Rock Lake, what we call the east park, and River Star
Art and Event park.
Coming off the highway currently, the County has
two curb cuts off of a TexDOT highway. I have talked with
Mike Coward at TexDOT about maintaining the use of two curb
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our main entrance to the -- to the grounds here with Spur
100, and then aligning the second entrance with the entrance
that goes to the ball fields across the -- across the
highway. TexDOT's standards requires 400, 500-foot
separation of drives, whether they're opposing or on the same
side. This satisfies -- this meets their requirement. And,
actually, he was glad that we were envisioning doing
something like this in terms of traffic safety.
I also spoke with him about some future -- perhaps
a traffic signal, and once the master plan is in place and
the buildings are operating and the traffic volumes can be
determined, he said TexDOT would be happy to cooperate, work
with the County on doing a -- doing a warrant for a signal,
most likely at the Spur 100 intersection. His initial
comment is currently that Spur 100 doesn't generate enough
traffic to warrant a signal, and probably the intermittent
use of the property would not, but they -- they really
embrace the idea of cleaning up these intersections here.
Like I said, the -- the second thing that we envision was the
', use of all of these park grounds. Some of the things that we
have done would be -- I think the very significant -- the
major thing we talked about was the -- creating the ability
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allow people to safely walk back and forth across it between
the fairgrounds and the parks, the two parks.
The County has, in the last -- sometime in the last
development of our plan, we also envision the design and
construction of a vehicle bridge that would connect the parks
as well, and that makes -- makes that accessible both for
people and vehicles in a safe manner. You can see we've
created a turnaround on this east side that -- it's large
enough for an emergency service vehicle, 18-wheelers to turn
around in, and it creates an opportunity to do some fencing
and some gating there that could be open most of the time, if
you desire, and can be shut down for events as -- as you see
fit. We would envision the same kind of a design being
constructed for the far end of River Star Park, which is
adjacent to the American Legion property, but providing the
same opportunity right kind of around the entrance -- closer
to the entrance to Flat Rock Lake Park, the opportunity to
shut that down as well.
And the -- in terms of the buildings, we have -- at
for that is to refurbish, upgrade it, update it, and just
refurbish the insulation, refurbish, do an analysis of the
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structural systems, and. just get 'it to -- to enhance the
current use of it. On the east side here, we show the
construction of a roof extension that would make that area
more usable in all weather. The -- the space to the kind of
south side here is livestock pens, which that's how it's
currently being used. We would envision updating that as
well. And then the next -- the next building to the -- to
the north is the show barn. That is a 45,000 square foot,
plus or minus, facility. It's an indoor facility. It would
be paved. It would have a concrete foundation, so it would
', differ from the indoor arena in that respect. It would be
attached to both the indoor arena and the exhibit and events
building, and so there would be an interior connection as
well as an exterior walkway across the front on the Highway
27 -side, and so that events in the indoor arena that needed
indoor conditions, space with foundation, access to toilets,
would be able to connect. And then the -- on the far left of
the site plan, you see the exhibit events. This is --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Peter?
MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Before you get away from
that,. would you tell me how many square feet are in that
indoor arena?
MR. LEWIS: In the indoor arena, that is --
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A hundred and --
MR. LEWIS: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 45,000 square feet, best I
remember.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's the show barn.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 150 by 300, not counting the
shed roof that's off the side, I believe.
MR. LEWIS: Right, and that does -- and that may
not include the shed.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That doesn't include the
other shed that you've drawn on there, either.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, the show barn and the
indoor arena will be the same size?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the shed area, it's
45,000 plus the two new shed areas and the existing shed
area.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
MR. LEWIS: That -- and that doesn't include the --
this office area over here, this little two-story section
here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm guessing probably around --
about 60,000.
MR. LEWIS: About 60,000.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, about 60,000, what's
there now.
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MR. LEWIS: And we say this show barn would be
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, yeah.
MR. LEWIS: We would envision that being -- that
space. Then the exhibit center, as I described, would
have -- at the heart of it would be a large multipurpose
space that could seat up to 1,000 people in a fixed seating
arrangement that could be divided into two smaller spaces.
It would be -- all of this would be air-conditioned, heated
and cooled space. It would be suitable for -- and I guess
one of the major distinctions between it and the show barn is
that it would not be used for livestock presentation, not be
used for livestock purposes. This would be a people activity
center, but it would also be tied internally and on the
outside to the show barn for large trade shows and other
types of events that needed a lot more floor area.
That space mentioned, the core of it would be a
large multipurpose space. It would be surrounded by a sort
of a -- what's the word I'm looking for? I just lost my
train of thought. A concourse that would surround it, and
adjacent to that concourse would be the central offices for
the exhibit center, the extension center offices, any other
offices that might be appropriate as a shared use with the
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County in this facility, and then some smaller meeting rooms
that would be breakout rooms. And if you think about the
concourse. I'm describing, everyone's familiar with the Inn of
the Hills, their new .conference center, and when you break
out of that large meeting room, you walk into a large
exhibits as well. And then the smaller meeting rooms would
also open onto that. Of course, it would be supported by all
the public restrooms, any kind of other common area that it
would need, and a large catering facility.
The orientation of it is, the building is oriented
so that it faces the new entrance that -- it's across from
Spur 100, but primary entries are on those diagonal walls
that face Spur 100, and then face back to Flat Rock Lake.
And we show -- we're showing structured parking on all sides.
And some of the parking on the south and east of the show
barn and indoor arena are -- is large, and it's not
structured parking, but it's for large vehicles, 18-wheelers.
I've -- during the course of the fair, I've been over here
and watched how a lot of those large trucks and vehicles and
trailers need to work, and so we provided plenty of area for
maneuvering, staging, parking, both adjacent to the arenas
and down here in this parking area that's close to Riverside
Drive. The 4-H pavilion, that -- as I said, most of the work
that was planned there has been put into place. We're also
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showing a possibility of a future horse barn, and that
smaller building down below that is an existing maintenance
office. That is the sum and substance of the master plan.
Along the river, some incidental things. We envision the
ability to -- maybe the natural topography might allow an
amphitheater of some kind that would also support the event
and the outdoor space, River Star Park, but that is the sum
and substance of our master plan. I will take any questions,
and -- and then I'll -- go ahead.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Lewis, when we were initially
looking at this, the exhibit center, which is on the -- the
northeast -- or northwest portion of this, it was rotated
90 degrees clockwise from where it's shown here initially,
and there was some issue about showcasing the entrance and so
forth. In -- in the initial one we were looking at, the
concourse, as you call it, were on the --
MR. LEWIS: Across the --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- on the front, and which would be
the side facing Highway 27. And on the east and west sides
of that structure were some shared facilities. I think the
catering kitchen was one?
MR. LEWIS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: On the same floor with the show
barn. And in that particular -- in that particular context,
the area to the southwest was -- was totally open for an
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expansion possibility for both expansion of the exhibit hall
and also the -- the concourses, as you call them, for
additional office space, meeting rooms, et cetera. It
appears that this one --
MR. LEWIS: We have -- we have put support spaces
in. The catering kitchen is -- they are on this -- this
south side -- or the south and kind of west side of this
facility.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, does not that limit your
ability to expand to the southwest?
MR. LEWIS: It does.
JUDGE TINLEY: For a major exhibit facility?
MR. LEWIS: It does. In fact -- and we were
looking at, as we developed this -- the exhibit center, and
we don't have a final plan for that, and so it could be
anything that it needs to be. And that was -- I was going to
kind of sum up to say that our next presentation to you would
be the -- the aggregation of any comments you have today, as
well as development of that particular building which is of
great interest. So --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, from my point, I think it's
very important that that whole thing be expandable to the --
to the southwest, as was originally indicated. Now, changing
the main entrance on the 45 to showcase that, that's not a
problem.
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MR. LEWIS: Yeah. But it's just being able to take
those -- what that support space that we've got down there --
and, actually, we will do that. We will do that, and that
would -- what will -- if you look at this footprint, if we
were to take those common elements and actually move them so
that they were a little more proximate to the show barn, we
can make that happen still.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And so that you could go
directly back.
MR. LEWIS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: To increase the size of that event
center, as -- as time and circumstances require, as well as
create additional office/meeting space, any other elements
you wanted to. You just go to the southwest on it, and there
you have it.
MR. LEWIS: Will do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, Judge.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Peter, you noted one
addition to this drawing that we didn't see before, which was
the amphitheater positioned on the slope in Flat Rock Lake
Park a It appears that there's .another small addition noted
as a horse barn.
MR. LEWIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which I didn't remember
seeing on the last one.
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MR. LEWIS: We -- I alluded to the amphitheater, I
think I recall, in our meeting. The horse barn was actually
something that came out of a conversation I had with
Commissioner Letz, or we had a meeting with him to review a
sketch of his composite plan, and we talked about that having
been an element that had -- had occurred -- had shown up in
some of the studies, and discussed going ahead and showing it
as a possibility.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It was listed as a location
that Peter was supposed to build or find a spot for, and I
just said just draw it in there, and if we ever build --
needed it, it could be built. That's a spot that makes sense
to do it.
MR. LEWIS: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or some other building may go
there. Whether we -- the restrooms or concessions, it's just
kind of a building holding spot, but it was part of our
original -- when we go back through the charge of this whole
process, it was pretty similar. He was told to put it
somewhere.
~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go back to the Judge's
I' concern, was that on the south -- southwestern corner down
~'~, there that you were talking about, was there -- was there a
I,
kitchen there or something?
MR. LEWIS: We'll have a kitchen that will be -- it
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121
will be -- it needs to be on this side for service. All of
the service functions for those buildings are on the
southwest side of this, but it could be -- it could actually
connect to the show barn area. But, yes, there is, and we
talked about a catering type kitchen. Not a full
institutional kitchen, but a kitchen that could be used to
support events, and people would bring -- you know, either
bring their own meals or have it catered by some
organization.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would not be the same
type facility that would take care of concessions for
anything that was going on in the show barn or the indoor
arena?
MR. LEWIS: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. LEWIS: No, that would be a separate program
item.
JUDGE TINLEY: But if the facility -- if there were
something that were occurring in the show barn that required
some sort of catering kitchen requirements, you'd have that
availability if it were bridging between those two --
MR. LEWIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- two structures.
MR. LEWIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: And that -- I'm going back to Plan 1
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that we saw.
MR. LEWIS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: I -- you, know, it -- my sense of it
was that every member of this. Court was pretty solidly on a
lot of those provisions of Plan 1, particularly the exhibit
center and the way it was located so that it could expand to
the southwest, and for all of its functions, and also so that
it could serve transitionally the show barn. And I think the
only change was we wanted to --
MR. LEWIS: Right.
I
JUDGE TINLEY: -- rotate that main entrance to the
45, where it was, as you drove in from Spur 98 -- or Spur
100, rather, boom, there it was.
MR. LEWIS: It's obvious that's the entrance to it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like --
MR. LEWIS: We will make that so.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And today, you just want to
basically hear what you just heard to make that one tweak to
get off that -- I guess looks like a shed or whatever that
little piece is on the bottom southwest corner. Looks like
that would conflict with expansion. And --
JUDGE TINLEY: Put it over there on the -- be on
I the --
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get rid of it.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- southeast side, for some other
transitional functions over here on the southeast side.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One other quick question,
Peter. You show kind of a roundabout on the Riverside Drive,
on the eastern side. Do you anticipate the same thing on the
western side of Riverside Drive?
MR. LEWIS: I do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. LEWIS: I do. I envision it at the far end of
that 7 acres that the Arts and Crafts Educational Foundation
uses, because -- and that would be a good place to turn
people around. There is a -- there's a public road that
comes through Maldonado's property that's not far from there,
so if you turn around, you don't have far to go to get back
out to the highway.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's there at the entrance into
the Flat Rock --
MR. LEWIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- Lake Park on the west side where
it comes down to that parking area and boat ramp, isn't it?
MR. LEWIS: Yeah. It's proximate to it, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So we're talking about
Riverside Drive, during these functions, closing that road
down.
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My personal opinion is, it
ought to be closed and just made into part of the park.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not asking you for
permission.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then why are you mentioning
it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To let you know.
JUDGE TINLEY: You don't intend to even ask
forgiveness after the fact?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely not.
MR. LEWIS: Well, that was -- and closing it was
our initial suggestion; just say, "How about closing it?"
And then, in the conversation in our workshop, we discussed
providing the ability to close it. And with the turnarounds,
you can do -- if someone comes down there, it's easy for them
to say, "I can't go here," and they can turn around, get back
out. And emergency services vehicles can turn around, or
they can get onto the property, even if it is gated.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They can run them down. And
if they get lost back there, Rusty can catch them.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was one -- I guess it
was the first year of the Arts and Crafts Fair down there
that they started that, and we had officers that -- at both
ends, 'cause that -- and I'll be honest; that was a total
disaster, the way it -- it just didn't work. We had
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people -- all kinds of people upset, 'cause they thought they.
should be able to still go on through, and it -- it-was not a
good idea. You know, and to be honest, if the County can --
or, you know, whoever would need to abandon that portion of
the road can just turn it into part of that where you have
direct access, and none of those problems going all the way
down, the requirement would be by far the best way to do it.
Because they were trying to keep big service trucks going in,
but not other ones, and it -- it's a nightmare. It needs to
be closed if it's going to be used as part of the park.
MR. LEWIS: We had a lot of discussion about that,
about all the events that generate a lot of traffic and the
ones that generate the 18-wheelers and large trailers, and
traffic flow as you get them on and they stage. Particularly
during the Junior Livestock Show and Arts and Crafts Fair,
you've got where we've got artists coming in unloading. They
all bring big trailers. So, each of those events kind of
needs a traffic plan that is built around the circulation of
this, and we think that -- that with the alignment of the
drives off 27, and we've got four additional entrances off of
Riverside, or possible entrances off of Riverside, that we
can create a lot of queuing on the property, and -- and will
allow the kind of queuing and staking prior to those events.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The issue we had is, people
know -- people stated to officers trying to work and control
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some of that, "This is a public road; you can't keep me from
going in it."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry I told him. You
just can't give him enough information.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, our next step after today
is to come back with a basic pricing.
MR. LEWIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And some final drawings.
MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or final sketches, really. Not
~ drawings.
MR. LEWIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Plans.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Quickly.
MR. LEWIS: We'll come back at your next meeting.
We'll be back at your next meeting.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's pretty quick.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So --
JUDGE TINLEY: Hang on, we might have some more
work for you here in just a moment.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we're leaving the
amphitheater in there for now?
MR. LEWIS: As a concept.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand.
MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir. And I'm not certain that
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that's the best place, but there -- you know how that grade
falls off there. It's a natural to set something in the.
'~, hillside. And over on the art -- at Arts and Crafts Fair,
we've done something like that with those big limestone
blocks. We just set those in --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that looks terrific.
MR. LEWIS: It was simple to do, and it -- and we
use the heck out of it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's beautiful over there.
I'm just concerned about the dog poo-poo down in the park.
(Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, that one -- that
amphitheater will be primarily for bluegrass music.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This one here?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Leave it. Put it in ink.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's going to be where
you're going to spend your golden years.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Down there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Performing.
JUDGE TINLEY: And over on the River Star Park,
where they put in that little seating arrangement for
entertainment, I might add they've had some wonderful
sponsors for that entertainment, people you know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything else? Mr. Balser?
MR. BALSER: Yes, sir. I just got a couple of
questions to ask. We have a couple of concerns on -- like,.
he's got it to where we can't use the exhibit -- the exhibit
and event center for any animal or anything. Where will our
Hill Country District Junior Livestock Show have its sale?
I' Is the show barn still going to be air-conditioned up front
where the exhibit center is now? Are y'all going to take
that air conditioning part out of there? Because we have all
those concerns as far as our sale goes, because we -- y'all
know how hat it gets in that barn. And most of y'all have
been to the sale, and -- but the way I see his drawing, we
have no way to even use that show barn, because there's no
unloading zone for our animals, for our swine.
MR. LEWIS: This whole area back here, if I
~ might --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are just rough drawings.
These aren't plans.
MR. BALSER: I understand. I understand.
MR. LEWIS: This whole area is loading, and this is
a service area that will have access in, and you'll be able
to load here. This front part would be whatever -- it would
be the kind of things for offices and support. And right
now, we were talking about this being heated and ventilated,
and it's really up to the Commissioners if -- if this needs
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MR. BALSER: Mm-hmm.
MR. LEWIS: But it would serve that purpose. And
MR. BALSER: I wouldn't think it all would need to
be air-conditioned, but the portion that we have now we may
need air-conditioned for our sale, because we cannot use the
exhibit center. You know, most of the -- the only concern I
about anything, our use of the show barn. It is the Hill
Country Youth Exhibition Center. We use it, and -- but we
have not been asked any type of, you know, what -- what do we
need? And I guess that's what I'm seeing, is we -- the sale
area, the show area, and also the unloading for the swine,
the goats and the lambs and the steers, they're taken care
of, 'cause that's no change, basically, there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just the hogs.
MR. BALSER: But you've taken 75 percent of our
area to unload. I'm not talking about the parking or
anything like that, or where we party outside. That --
that's not -- but I'm just talking about access to be able to
unload and use that barn for our facility.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's a big area to
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unload. I think that you may have to change where you
unload.
MR. BALSER: Yeah, but access to that -- I mean,
it's just everything's going to .have to come in right here,
and then access to this area over here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you could come in --
MR. LEWIS: You've got access over here, here, and
into an area here. These -- this may be striping; these may
be raised. I wanted to give some structure to this cross
drive. But you've really got this whole area here, and at
this scale, you've got -- that's about a hundred and --
that's around 100 feet.
MR. BALSER: Take the trees out. But, anyway,
that's our concern. And, you know, I just kind of would like
to -- maybe our executive board would have a decision -- not
a decision, but a voice in the usage of it and the way things
are being planned on that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think they'll be -- at the
time that we start working on details, I think --
MR. BALSER: I like the drawing. I like everything
about it. It's very useful.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Listen, don't interrupt. I
said as soon as we get to the point we're designing
something, we'll get your input.
MR. BALSER: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just site planning,
where buildings go.
MR. BALSER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Really, just parking off
square footages.
MR. BALSER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Spaces.
MR. WALSTON: I guess my only question is, as far
as our Extension offices, how are we -- is it -- what kind
of -- are we going to have any input on exactly the layout on
that?
JUDGE TINLEY: Trust us.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Same thing. You're going to
get a lot better than you have now, I'm sure.
MR. WALSTON: Well, I'm sure. I just --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason, Roy, is that
building -- we looked at that and talked about it quite a bit
at our last meeting. This help -- uses the property a lot
better, and also has one location where y'all would be in
along with other offices, potentially. You know, we'd like
to get the U.S.D.A. over there at the same building. They've
shown a desire to kind of locate with y'all, or near you.
And it's a way to give better usage of space.
MR. WALSTON: That would be fine. As far as, you
know -- I mean, there's some -- we could use some more
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storage and some things like that. So, if we get a chance
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, it's the same thing.
When we get a check for a couple million dollars, then we'll
really start talking serious to y'all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Y'all got somebody on the hook
', that's got one of those kind of checkbooks?
MR. WALSTON: If I did, I'd have some other things
JUDGE TINLEY: I see. Okay. Okay. Mr. Snow, how
MR. SNOW: Well, you know, appraisers, we never are
content with things. In looking at the concept plan, based
on some of the prior conversations, I would ask what
considerations on the outdoor arena, where it is now
placed -- we were originally visited with about restrooms
would be under the 4-H pavilion with a concession stand
there. Now it looks like everything keeps moving farther to
the south, and is there any provisions? And on this
turnaround, Mr. .Lewis, where would gating be in there where
we're coming in with gooseneck trailers, or for our parking,
which would be the area to the south of the arena, I assume?
MR. LEWIS: We have a gate only at this point. And
if -- if they were going to close this down, this -- you
know, those gates would be open to access the property, and
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closed down if -- as conditions -- circumstances dictated.
But that would be right here, but this area here, in all
other events., would be free and clear.
MR. SNOW: Well, I guess --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There may be another gate right
before the cul-de-sac going into the property right about
your little finger right there.
MR. SNOW: Would it not be possible to look at one
coming right off of the circle? You've got enough swing
radius with those bigger trailers.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Somewhere on that side.
MR. SNOW: Everything on that side would be one of
the other things we would at least like to have considered.
And then, like I say, what do we do? The grandstand needs to
go to the north, northwest side; puts the sun at your back in
the afternoons instead of facing it, which would work fine,
but they're somewhat adjacent. We may also need concession
and/or restroom facilities within a reasonable proximity.
JUDGE TINLEY: We looked at the -- the restroom
facilities, and in order to run sewer line --
MR. SNOW: That much farther. We get to take a
hike.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're looking at --
JUDGE TINLEY: You're understanding the problem.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But a little septic, a real
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small bathroom kind of -- you know, that can be used.
MR. SNOW:. But, again, what -- it's a combination
Equine Drive, where their new arena is, that is a very
functional building, restroom block all in one structure.
MR. LEWIS: We'll take a look at it.
MR. SNOW.: I suggest as a possibility of something
MR. LEWIS: We did interview one of their board
from my office took a tour of that, so we'll go back and talk
a little bit more about that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but -- yeah. Let me
about this probably a dozen times now since it's been on our
agendas, but the purpose of what we're doing right here is
solely to get basic drawings, basic costs, so we can go try
to raise the money. I mean, there's going to be lots of time
for all these -- you know, what you're talking about is, in
reality, a $75,000 addition. You know, that's -- it's an
important part for that little piece, but, you know, it's not
critical to us getting -- we don't need to spend money
worrying about a restroom over there at this point. What we
need is to have drawings that we can go and try to raise the
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three, four million dollars it's going to take to do this,
and then we can -- once we get the money, then we'll go into
a full planning mode as to how we actually do it and what the
details and, you know, start doing full architectural
drawings.
MR. SNOW: Thank you.
MR. WALSTON: Bruce, can you not tie into this
septic line on Riverside?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You can, but the thing is,
it's about -- you know, the end of the line is over there by
the outdoor arena where it is now.
MR. WALSTON: Oh, that's the end of it?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It comes out between the --
the arena -- indoor arena and the hog barns, where it comes
out, and it turns and goes back southwest across there. And
so you're looking at a long -- you know, it would be better
to extend the sewer line down Riverside Drive than it would
be trying to tie a small restroom facility into that.
MR. WALSTON: That's what I was thinking.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, septic is a lot
cheaper, and we got good soil.
MR. LEWIS: Small system, yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Small system or something
like that. We're not talking about a full-blown restaurant
or anything that would require a huge amount.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With chickens and guineas.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's not used every day.
JUDGE TINLEY: Are you saying that would be a
suitable location for the chicken -- world championship
chicken races?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Chicken races.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
I
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's fine.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more for Mr. Lewis?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we need a motion on this is
the plan? I'll make a motion that we -- or request Mr. Lewis
to proceed with the plan as presented today, with the
modifications discussed, primarily with the exhibit center.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion? You got clear direction?
MR. LEWIS: I do. In fact, appreciate your
comments and feedback. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. What's the
pleasure of the Court? Y'all want to go to lunch, or do you
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want to just plow on through here?
'~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How many do we have left?
JUDGE TINLEY: About five items.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pretty quick.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's plow.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we'll plow. Let's go to Item
22; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to rescind
Court Order Number 30940 giving notice to the City of
Kerrville for the cancellation of our Interlocal Cooperation
Agreement for Regulation of Subdivisions within the City of
Kerrville's Extraterritorial Jurisdiction. Commissioner
Letz?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We got a second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Make it quick, Letz.
JUDGE TINLEY: Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
', (The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll move
to Item 23; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on
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giving notice to the City of Kerrville on cancellation of the
ETJ agreement. Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Real quick, what we've just
done, there is a 90-day cancellation provision. That 90 days
is up next week. Rather than try to negotiate a new
cancellation period with the City, it's easier for us just to
rescind the first one and give them a new 90-day notice.
They are sort of working with us. They have appointed two
councilmen. The councilmen haven't been very successful in
getting staff to bring the documents that they've asked for,
so we're going to make another pass at that with a letter to
the mayor today. And -- and there's not an exact meeting of
the minds between the County Attorney and the City Attorney,
but they're working.
JUDGE TINLEY: We're doing -- just getting a new
90-day period to work this?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and .seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
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(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to
Item 24; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on
proposed -- excuse me. Take appropriate action regarding
correcting one employee in the position schedule and annual
payroll for FY '08-'09. Twenty-five words or less.
MS. HYDE: We messed up. We need to get it fixed.
It's Rex's employee. It's going to be $3,030.96 addition to
the payroll. That is not including FICA, yada, yada, yada.
Less than 25.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just plugged in the wrong
number in the mix?
MS. HYDE: It shows appointed, and she's not
appointed. She's hired by Rex; she's not an appointed
official.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to
Item 26; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to
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', rescind Court Order Number 31049, which approved the rules
regarding the format of ESD Number 1 and ESD Number 2 audits
and reports. Commissioner Oehler, I assume this is to
rescind that one so that we can put in place the one that we
adopted earlier; is that correct?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. There's no reason
for the -- I see for that order to exist, if our County
Auditor's going to do the audits.
JUDGE TINLEY: And as authorized by item -- what,
4?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Was that a motion,
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes, it is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to
Item 27 on the amendment. Consider, discuss, and take
appropriate action to designate a committee to review and
evaluate courthouse windows bids or proposals and make
recommendations to Commissioners Court on such bids or
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proposals. This is on the agenda as a suggestion which
resulted from the receipt of the bids at a prior meeting, and
I think the Court suggested that maybe we get -- in addition
to whatever other county reps, that we get. Mr. Lewis involved
in that also.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I asked Mr. Lewis if he or his
firm is willing to help with that pro Bono, and, of course,
he said yes. And --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That was a good thing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Your German heritage is showing,
Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And he -- he said that they've
actually done -- looked at windows -- these issues
~I previously, and worked with -- for the same reasons, with
other buildings in town. And I thought that -- it's not from
him, but another thought in mind, that it might not be bad to
have someone such as Steve Huser or Mike Lowe or some builder
that does a lot of buildings, some of these renovations,
around to look at it from a quality standpoint. Peter Lewis
may very well be able to offer that as well, but just a
thought, if we wanted to have a --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think the Judge and Peter
Lewis ought to do it. This was kind of the Judge's thing
from the beginning.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, I want to be on the committee.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, I'd look for you to be on
that with Peter Lewis.
JUDGE TINLEY: .And maybe Tim involved, too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tim.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And Tim. Tim, yeah, that's,
fine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Was that a motion?
Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is a motion, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. I have a motion and
second. Question or discussion on the motion? Alb in favor
of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Let's go to
Section 4, payment of the bills. Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I move that we pay
our bills.
~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second that.
', JUDGE .TINLEY: I have a motion and a second to pay
the bills. Question or discussion? Let me lead off on this.
Sheriff's still here. Dailey Wells, maintenance, 27,000
dispatch console system.
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's our yearly maintenance
fee with Dailey Wells on our entire radio system.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So that's a contractual
obligation?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's contractual, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All-righty. Page 38, Health
and Emergency Services. NAPECO, navy coats.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Navy coats.
JUDGE TINLEY: $2,925. What in the world is that?
First Responders, I guess?
MS. HARGIS: I guess. I'm assuming those are the
jackets that the First Responders would wear. I wasn't here.
JUDGE TINLEY: That identify them and --
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- and have patches on them and have
the attachments so that they can carry the kind of gear
around that they need and so forth?
MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, they're working for
.free, so I suppose that's not too bad, then.
MS. HARGIS: I think these are all their uniforms.
We didn't spend -- he didn't spend very much money last year.
I think this probably finishes --
JUDGE TINLEY: This is out of their. 10, 000 and
change expenses?
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MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Remind me, I'd like to take
a look at that, please.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to the next page,
Page 39. Second item, patrolman's carbine, capital outlay.
I assume that's a -- some sort of automatic or semi-automatic
i weapon.
MS. HARGIS: As I recall, that's part of his
budget. He asked for some -- a weapon, guns of some sort.
I'm not familiar.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What is this?
MS. HARGIS: This is the Environmental Health. I
believe they had that as part of their -- if you look at
their budget items, because I did check this one.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Environmental Health is
~ buying --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Patrolman's carbine.
JUDGE TINLEY: Environmental Health is getting into
big-time shootouts.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, patrolman's carbine,
what he's getting is probably an AR-15, then, or --
MS. HARGIS: I think he's getting two of them. I
think.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $879, that's one.
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. That's going to be an
AR-15. That's a fully semiautomatic rifle that --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell you what, don't dump in
this damn county. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- I don't see the need
for that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do you have a law enforcement
agency or do you have an environmental health agency?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Is it the constable asking you
for this? Or --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's coming out of
Environmental Health budget. Let's pull that one and let it
wait. He hasn't bought it yet, has he? You might let him
know not to buy that.
MS. HARGIS: I think he has.
MS. HYDE: He bought it.
JUDGE TINLEY: He bought it?
MS. HARGIS: It was in his budget. You approved it
in his budget.
MS. HYDE: Y'all approved it in the budget.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We might have approved
supplies. Or --
MS. HARGIS: No, it was actually listed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- as a group.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Capital outlay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And body armor.
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:. I'd like to compare these
prices in your body armor.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only -- in next year's
budget, I don't -- you may want to take a look at who
Environmental Health Department goes under if you're going to
have them as certified officers.
JUDGE TINLEY: Rex, you're being
uncharacteristically quiet on this one.
MR. EMERSON: Sounds like a policy issue to me.
JUDGE TINLEY: You want to remain
uncharacteristically quiet?
MR. EMERSON: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you got it -- right now,
you got it under constable, which that has all the authority.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which technically, to be under
the constable, the majority of his duties have to be in line
with constables' duties. How much of its duties are in line
with constables duties?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think quite a bit,
actually. More than we anticipated.
MR. EMERSON: You guys do realize this rifle could
be used to shoot chickens. (Laughter.)

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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or guinea hens.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about feral cats?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Indeed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's in the budget. We
should have caught it earlier. That is a total of about
'~ $2,600, which -- well, but, you know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we need to have the
talk about it. I really do, whether it was in the budget or
I not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. I mean, have a visit
about it, just to find out.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think we've got -- those first --
one, two, three, four -- five items, you got $133 worth of
ammo, and then you got some body armor, and then you got the
carbine, and then Hornady; they make bullets.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right, that's bullets.
JUDGE TINLEY: $130 again worth of bullets.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2,500, a little over.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know what the need is
for that.
(Low-voice discussion off the record.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, you need a new carbine?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll be honest, gentlemen, the
ones that we use are the Ruger Mini 14's, okay? That the --
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the County bought years ago. I have purchased a few over --
maybe five or six while I've been in office through different
seized funds to replace, but a lot of my people have opted to
carry their own personal AR-15's that they have to get
permission to do and qualify with, but I haven't asked this
County to buy any other weapons for any agency.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we need to get that
~ one --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, if he's bought them,
we're in a little bit of a situation. It's a budgeted item;
he didn't have to get Commissioners' approval, but I think we
need to get word to him that we have a question on the
expenditure. He needs to come before they unbox all the
stuff and start practicing; come talk to us at our next
meeting.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If he's already fired it, we
bought it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what I'm saying. You
may be getting one.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a need for them all the
time. But I'm a law enforcement agency, not an environmental
health.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that's all I can stir up
today. Somebody else take a run at it.
MS. HARGIS: Okay. There was one bill that didn't
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get included, and I gave y'all a copy of that, so I just need
approval on that one as well.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do we handle that as a late bill?
MS. HARGIS: We can handle that as a late bill.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We have a motion and a
second for the bills. Question or discussion further? All
in favor of the motion, signify by raising -- are we going to
exclude the coats, or any of this other? It's already
purchased, isn't it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no. We're going to
leave that in there. I just want to look at it, 'cause I
initial everything that comes through, and I don't recall
seeing any coats.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: How many First Responders are
I there?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's no concern of yours.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I buy coats at about $100 a
piece. That's 30 of them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Go on, don't listen to him.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You don't want it pulled,
then?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I think they've already
done it. It appears that way.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. All in favor of the
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motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Any budget
amendments?
MS. HARGIS: No, sir. New year.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Late bills. We have the one
late bill. Copy has been furnished.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about this propaganda?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's the late bill.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Did we just pay it?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, we didn't. No, we didn't pay
it. We -- no, we handled it -- we decided to handle it as a
late bill. That's why we're here now on this one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay. We're there
now, aren't we?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. You move to approve?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Kidneys -- kidneys just
kicked in.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we going to discuss it,
or am I going to be the only one to discuss it, or what?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, you start.
JUDGE TINLEY: Go ahead.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I see chickens. So,
absolutely nothing in there that any member of this Court
would use. It looks like to me that we pay a fee for
membership, and then turn around and pay fairly high rates
for -- very high, actually, for the classes -- individual
classes. However, it's one of those things that it's the
department's budget. She feels like that it is -- it is
something good for the whole county, so I'm not going to
argue that point. The only point I'm going to argue is the
$200 wall plaque. I will not vote to pay $200 for a wall
plaque, unless the definition of "wall plaque" has changed
into AR-15's or helicopters or something like that, chicken
farms.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I pretty much agree with
Commissioner Baldwin. I talked to Eva about it a little bit,
and I -- you know, I told her that being -- turning it down
originally to me made sense, because we don't generally pay
fees for organizations that aren't a requirement of our job.
As you said, for -- if that's for the training and some of
the classes you take, you know, that I have to leave to her
discretion. And if that's it, I'll have to trust that these
are the best ones for the training that she feels we need in
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the .county. You know, it's a -- and I just -- I'm not
knowledgeable one way or the other about these classes. Not
my business. But the -- the wall plaque, we don't need a
wall plaque. Unless we're required to have a wall plaque;
then I agree.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is that, Eva?
MS. HYDE: I have no idea.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't want a wall plaque.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, when we talked about
it, and you and I talked with Eva about the same time,
Ms. Hyde indicated that there were residual benefits that
accrued to Kerr County by virtue of this membership. Can you
tell us what those are?
MS. HYDE: Yeah. There's discounts on not only
management training that's in the back, but also books.
Hastings, Barnes and Noble, rental cars, the gamut. I mean,.
it is professional. It's not just for county government or
city government. It's just about anything that employees can
buy or use, so the County would be able to use it. All
employees would be able to use it. They'd have to come
through me, and then they get their discounts.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my -- if the primary
reason is training, I support it. If the primary reason is
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MS. HYDE: This is -- this is the training. And, I ~
doing our policy book. Part of the reason why a lot of our
training doesn't occur is how much it costs to send employees
to go get trained. So, although I understand what you're
saying, if you send one person to get trained, then all you
have to do is cite the copyright, and you can use a lot of
those principles yourself by pulling them up and training the
people within, which is what the ladies and gentlemen that we
talked about said they wanted to do, versus sending 20 people
to a training on implementing effective internal controls or
OSHA compliance, or FMLA. You train a trainer, and then the
trainer trains the employees. It's a heck of a lot cheaper.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you going to have multiple
-- you envision multiple trainers? Or someone in your
office? Or --
MS. HYDE: Probably, to start out with, me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the benefit of the training you
would get through this program, you could then utilize to
spread among various departments here in Kerr County
government?
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just real quick, just for --
so we all know what we're talking about here, select one of
those, any one of them, the OSHA or the -- what do you have
in front of you?
MS. HYDE: You got HRN law, FMLA complaints,
payroll law.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Select one.
MS. HYDE: For what?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of those, and tell us
the cost of it.
MS. HYDE: FMLA compliance, 199. With the
discount, it's 159.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And most of them -- well,
you got a good one there. Caught me. But you -- most of
them are 300, 350.
MS. HYDE: And those are all two- or three-day
classes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For two- or three-day
classes or whatever. It just -- and I'm not voting against
the thing. If it's education, it's education; I'm all for
it. It's just -- that just seems like real expensive stuff
to me, and there's nothing that this Court would use. Of
course, you know, they -- they mandate what classes we take
to make us as smart and bright as we are.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Also to spend money.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But that's the way it is.
That's the way it is; I agree.
JUDGE TINLEY: This sounds like a wonderful
opportunity for me to make a 15-minute pitch for video
teleconferencing. And I could shorten it to about --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm all for it.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- 15 seconds --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- if I were just to have some
assurance from this Court that they understand how wonderful
video teleconferencing is for distance training, like the
Sheriff uses for law enforcement. If it's used for --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You think you might do this?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. And it can be used for a lot
of different things. The training conferences is a big, big
piece. You avoid the travel, the hotel costs, the per diem
per meal, and on and on it goes.
MS. HYDE: Absolutely.
JUDGE TINLEY: But it's coming. It's coming
whether you like it or not.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- do you see that this
helps that train that's coming?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, some of the training that may
be available via this program may be actual online training.
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MS. HYDE: It's online and teleconference.
JUDGE TINLEY: That you get a specific password or
code to get into so that you can take advantage of it,
whereas if you don't have .that code or password, in terms of
paying them, that you can't get into it. So, I'm sure
there's some of that there. That's -- it's in virtually
every training program you see nowadays. So --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last question, and I don't know
if you know. This doesn't have any kind of impact with PAC,
does it, Political Action Committee? They don't give money
to anybody?
MS. HYDE: No. No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The name looks like they may;
that's the reason I asked.
MS. HYDE: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure does.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just wanted to make sure we're
I not...
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good question.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have a motion at this
~ point?
THE CLERK: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: No, we don't.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we pay the
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bill, with the removal of the wall plaque for $199.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favor of
the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Do we have any
more late bills?
MS. HARGIS: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: I've been presented monthly reports
from Constable, Precinct 3, and Road and Bridge. Do I hear a
motion that those reports be approved as presented?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the reports as presented. Question or discussion
on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Do we --
reports from Commissioners in connection with their liaison
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JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS; Couple things, Judge. I'll
be in Austin tomorrow for an appearance before the water --
Texas Water Development Board for the Center Point project.
First a meeting of the finance committee, TWDB, at 9:30,
followed by the board meeting. We're listed as a consent
item on the board agenda, but if there's any fireworks, that
might come out of questions that sidetrack this or derail it
coming from the finance committee, so I'll be going up there
for that. U.G.R.A. is sending its public relations young
lady up, and she'll ride up with me to represent U.G.R.A. On
the job scene, Kerr County's unemployment rate in September
increased; it is now 4.5 percent, up a couple ticks from
j August. It was 4.3. We're still behind the 12-county region
unemployment rate of 5 percent. I'll have something on our
next agenda having to do with census track population
estimates and how that applies to Kerr County, what we may or
may not want to do with it. But just F.Y.I., there are ten
census tracks -- I think it's ten. One, two, three -- nine
census tracks in Kerr County. And the '07 population
estimates of those tracks is 47,529. A census track's
different than a census block. And so we'll talk more about
that at our next court meeting; I'll have it on the agenda.
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And, finally -- two other items. There -- I think
I mentioned to the Court on one other occasion that at the
recommendation of the Texas Department of Transportation,
there is going to now be formed a rural planning
organization. Had the opportunity to meet the new district
engineer for TexDOT, great big fellow named Medina, and he is
a major proponent of this, along with all the rest of TexDOT.
This gives you a little outline of what the objectives are
and so forth and so on, but it has to do with our planning --
transportation planning for the rural counties that surround
Bexar County. And, finally, there is a legislative forum
that will be in New Braunfels October 30, at 1:30 p.m., and
topics of discussion will be transportation, appraisal
districts, land use authority, homeland security, TexDOT
sunset review, property tax, revenue caps, and water. Pretty
good agenda. That's it, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two items. Region J meeting
this week in Del Rio Thursday. Anyone that wants to head
down that way, I'll be going.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Love to go, but I'm going to
be in San Antonio.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And last, Friday I met in
Austin on some of the county-to-county stuff with -- looking
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Lucky you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then plead with
Representative Hilderbran and try to get him to sponsor the
bill. And if we get -- I told them that wouldn't happen till
we get the homebuilders on board. And it may happen without
that, but anyway, I'm working on those two items. And the
bills are -- I'll bring them back, I mean, obviously, before
we go much further. We have another meeting the 19th, so
probably the first meeting of September (sic) I'll have those
on the agenda. But they're --
JUDGE TINLEY: First meeting in September?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: November.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You are behind.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, I am behind. Some days I
for the most part; some major things with 232 currently, and
then they're looking at impact fees, land use type stuff, and
then there's -- what's the other one? Anyway, three items,
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I'm not sure that I'm in favor of all these things, but
they're all done -- we left it with a county option, some
kind of a menu, the way the bill was drafted, so you can pick
and choose if you want any or none of them, and it will be
for the 15 hill country counties.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: None are mandatory?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: None of it's mandatory.
JUDGE TINLEY: And you'll just. have an entire menu
of various land use functions?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not a whole lot. This
will be -- like, if you want impact fees, you would adopt the
impact -- the section of the current state law that applies
to municipalities. You go into that and change it. So,
those 15 counties can do it, and if they do choose it, then
that's how you do it, 'cause it's already written down.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's -- no one's agreeing
to do anything. It's all going to be on either a vote -- a
petition for the people that make it to get on the ballot,
the Court put can it on a ballot, or the Court can decide to
do it by themselves. That's where it is right now. You
know, and it's still up in the air. That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You got anything for us,
Commissioner?
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have any reports from elected
officials or department heads? I should have known.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Let her go first.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, first.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, no.
MS. HARGIS: Mine's pretty quick. I just want to
make -- I did spend last week at the auditors' conference,
and they had a Representative Hill that spoke to us about the
revenue caps. And I brought back a whole packet that I would
like for y'all to look at. And they recommended that we put
together a factual statement if we know our local
representative and get with them, because they feel -- this
Representative Hill feels like this is one of the worst bills
we'll ever do if we try to pass this revenue cap, and he
feels like we need to attack it at the local level, and so
they gave us a whole packet on it, and I'd like to provide
that to you y'all and any representative that you know. So,
they say for us to give them facts, and so maybe we can come
up with a fact statement that you can present to the local
state reps, and so -- and the senators so that we have a
voice, because they're -- they're going to do something, they
told us, because they feel like the people want something,
but we certainly don't want them to do something that's going
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to be ingrained for the future. So, anyway, I have the
packet, and I'll -- they only gave us one, but I'll pass it
around to each of you. It has brochures on it, what's going
to happen, the whole bit.
JUDGE TINLEY: The facts that you're talking about
are dollars and cents type facts?
MS. HARGIS: How it would actually affect us.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: So that they feel that a personal
relationship -- at least our representative, a personal
relationship of what would happen in our county.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He makes --
MS. HARGIS: How it would affect us for the future.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He makes a good
presentation, doesn't he?
MS. HARGIS: Yes, he does. He's an excellent
speaker. I understand he's retiring. That's what I
understand. But he said he's never been so passionate about
anything in his whole term, and I think he's been there
20-plus years. And he said this -- he feels this will be the
worst bill we've ever passed in the state of Texas if it gets
through.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Privately, he'll tell you to
take your state rep out behind the shed. That's how he
recommends to deal with it.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: At our meeting Friday, Jim
Allison mentioned that his number-one ..marching order is"to --
is that. And -- but the good news was that it looks like the
county-to-county thing is probably number two or number three
on his marching orders to get done.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lots of support statewide.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, 20 words or less.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can't do it that quick. But
real quick, if you remember, during the budget process we
talked about what it was going to cost to update the county
law enforcement radios themselves; not the system, but just
the radios, about 180,000. So, we did apply for, through
AACOG, a grant for half of that amount, 90,000. I was
advised last week that that was approved, and is going up to
the governor. So, I don't know when we'll get the final word
or the actual money, but that -- our 90,000 was approved to
help pay for half of those radios, anyhow.
JUDGE TINLEY: With the condition that we match it?
Or can you start spending the --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No matching, no nothing on it;
it's a total deal. And next year we'll apply for the second
half.
10-27-08

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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to say, why didn't
you ask for all of it?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There was limited funds; I
didn't want to jeopardize it, 'cause they had a lot of other
agencies asking for funds. I didn't want to jeopardize us by
asking for too much at one time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, finally you bring us some good
news.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You need to do a -- a press
release when that comes.
'~ SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Once I actually see the check,
I'll be more than happy to do it. I still want to see the
check.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get a picture of the check.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I want to see it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: With your representative from
I AACOG.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, definitely.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll hear from the
governor next?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any more reports from elected
officials or department heads? Okay. Anybody else? Last
chance. We're adjourned.
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:42 p.m.)
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STATE OF TEXAS (
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of October,
2008.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
BY: t~~ f~lncl~'
Kathy Sa~hik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
10-27-OB
ORDER NO. 31054
HILL COUNTRY ALTERNATE DISPUTE RESOLUTION CENTER (HDADRC)
CONTRACT FOR MEDIATION SERVICES
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Contract between the Hill Country Alternate Dispute Resolution Center
(HDADRC) and Kerr County to provide mediation services in Kerr County and for
funding.
~.
ORDER NO. 31055
PROPERTY TAX EXEMPTIONS FOR KERRVILLE MASONIC LODGE #697 AND
CENTER POINT RISING STAR LODGE #429
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Property Tax Exemptions for the Kerrville Masonic Lodge #697 and the
Center Point Rising Star LODGE #429.
ORDER NO. 31056
ANNUAL AUDITS FOR ESD #1 AND ESD #2
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Authorize, by Court Order, for the County Auditor to do the ESD # 1 & #2 audits as
required, including the limited qualifying language.
ORDER NO. 31057
CENTRAL COUNTING STATION PERSONNEL
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Central Counting Station Personnel pursuant to Chapter 27 TEC, as follows:
Presiding Manager	Diane Bolin
Tabulating Supervisor	Michele Schneider
Judge	Nadene Alford
Clerk	Eva Washburn
Calls to SOS & Website	John Trolinger
ORDER NO. 31058
QUARTERLY INVESTMENT REPORT FROM PATTERSON AND ASSOCIATES
FOR QUARTER ENDING 9-30-08
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve acknowledgement of the receipt of Quarterly Investment report from Patterson
and Associates for the quarter ending September 30, 2008.
,~
ORDER NO. 31059
2008-2009 KERR COUNTY COMMUNITY PLAN
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Adopt 2008-2009 Kerr County Community Plan for submission to the Alamo Area
Council of Governments (AACOG).
ORDER N0.31060
KERB CENTRAL APPRAISAL DISTRICT BUDGET AMENDMENT
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve (the budget amendment request to add to the building reserve account for costs
related to potential building, renovation, or other modifications deemed necessary, such
account to be funded with surplus funds left over the from Appraisal District's 2007
operating budget) that they keep the overage, which Kerr County's part is $3,924.51, as
long as all other entities do likewise.
ORDER N0.31061
REVISED PROPOSAL FOR ENGINEERING SERVICES FROM L. WAYNE WELLS,
P.E.
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioners Oehler/Williams. The Court
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the revised proposal for Engineering Services from L. Wayne Wells, P.E. (for
an hourly rate and mileage increase, effective November 1, 2008 through November 1,
2010), and authorize County, Judge to sign same.
ORDER NO. 31062
REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS FOR MASS NOTIFICATION SERVICES
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Authorize the issuance of a Request for Proposals for Mass Notification Services, and
advertise the same as required.
ORDER N0.31063
GRANT A VARIANCE TO KERB COUNTY FLOOD PREVENTION ORDER FOR A
HOME IN WESTWOOD OAKS
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve granting a variance to the Kerr County Flood Prevention Order for a home in
Westwood Oaks, located in Precinct 4.

ORDER N0.31064
NATIONAL WILD TURKEY FEDERATION TO BE "NON-PROFIT" FOR HILL
COUNTRY YOUTH EXHIBIT CENTER
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioners Oehler/Baldwin. The Court
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve adding the National Wild Turkey Federation to the "Non-Profit" list for the Hill
Country Youth Exhibit Center.

ORDER N0.31065
ABANDON, VACATE AND DISCONTINUE 21.20 ACRE PORTION OF LAND OF
COMANCHE CAVES RANCH
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Set a Public Hearing for Monday, December 8, 2008 at 10:00 a.m. to abandon, vacate and
discontinue the 21.20 acre portion of land from the recorded plat of Comanche Caves
Ranch, Vol. 4, Page 209, located in Precinct 4.
ORDER NO. 31066
BOND FOR LEONARD ODOM, JR.
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Bond for Leonard Odom, Jr. with First Insurance Agency.
1
ORDER N0.31067
CONTRACTS WITH KERR COUNTY SPONSORED ENTITIES AND VOLUNTEER
FIRE DEPARTMENTS
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Contracts with Kerr Economic Development Foundation, Big Brothers and
Sisters, Comfort Volunteer Fire Department, Elm Pass Volunteer Fire Department, Turtle
Creek Volunteer Fire Department, Center Point Volunteer Fire Department and Castle
Lake Volunteer Fire Department, and authorize County Judge to sign same.

ORDER N0.31068
DECLARE NOVEMBER, 2008 HOME CARE AND HOSPICE MONTH IN KERB
COUNTY
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve request for Resolution from Texas Association for Home Care to declare
November, 2008, as Home Care and Hospice Month in Kerr County.
ORDER N0.31069
RESOLUTION PROCLAIMING OCTOBER AS CZECH HERITAGE MONTH IN
KERB COUNTY
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Resolution to proclaim October as Czech Heritage Month in Kerr County.
ORDER N0.31070
COLLECTION OF MENTAL HEALTH COURT COSTS FROM MAVERICK
COUNTY
Came to be heard this. the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve County Attorney pursuing collection of mental health court costs from
Maverick County.
ORDER N0.31071
EVIRONMENTAL HEALTH ENFORCEMENT ON 170 CENTER POINT RIVER
ROAD EAST
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Environmental Health Department issuing an injunction against the property
located at 170 Center Point River Road East, located in Precinct 2.

ORDER N0.31072
PROPOSED SITE PLAN FOR HILL COUNTRY YOUTH EXHIBIT CENTER
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Request Mr. Lewis to proceed with the plan as presented today, with the modifications
discussed, primarily with the Exhibit Center.
ORDER NO.31073
RESCIND COURT ORDER #30940 GIVING NOTICE TO CITY OF KERRVILLE ON
CANCELLATION OF INTERLOCAL COOPERATION AGREEMENT FOR
REGULATION OF SUBDIVISIONS
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve rescinding Court Order #30940 giving notice to the City of Kerrville for the
cancellation of our Interlocal Cooperation Agreement for Regulation of Subdivisions
within the City of Kerrville's Extraterritorial Jurisdiction (ETJ}.
^
ORDER NO. 31074
NOTICE TO CITY OF KERRVILLE ON CANCELLATION OF ETJ AGREEMENT
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court .unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve giving notice to the City of Kerrville on cancellation of the Extraterritorial
Jurisdiction (ETJ) Agreement.
ORDER NO.31075
CORRECTION FOR ONE EMPLOYEE IN POSITION SCHEDULE AND ANNUAL
PAYROLL FOR FY 2008-09
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve correcting one employee (from the County Attorney's Office) in the Position
Schedule and their annual payroll for FY 2008-09, which will result in a $3,030.96
addition to the payroll.
ORDER N0.31076
RESCIND COURT ORDER #31049 REGARDING FORMAT OF ESD #1 AND ESD
#2 AUDITS AND REPORTS
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve rescinding Court Order Number 31049, which approved the rules regarding the
format of Emergency Services District #1 (ESD #1) and Emergency Services District #2
(ESD #2) audits and reports.
ORDER N0.31077
DESIGNATE A COMMITTEE TO REVIEW AND EVALUATE COURTHOUSE
WINDOWS BIDS
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Letz. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve designating Peter Lewis Architect, Judge Tinley and Tim Bollier to the
Committee to review and evaluate Courthouse Windows Bids or Proposals and make
recommendations to Commissioners' Court on such bids or proposals.
ORDER N0.31078
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
Came to be heard this the 27~' day of October, 2008, came to be considered by the Court
various Commissioners Precincts, which said Claims and Accounts are:
Accounts		Expense
10-General	$	300,749.91
14-Fire Protection	$	16,095.00
iS-Road & Bridge	$	35,599.00
18-County Law Library	$	1,944.55
19-Public Library	$	33,333.33
26-JP Technology	$	2,825.00
29-Courthouse Security	$	569.00
31-Parks	$	154.14
41-Records Archival	$	13,650.00
50-Indigent Health Care	$	38,186.38
70-Permanent Improvement	$	285.90
71-Schreiner Road Trust	$	8,213.90
76-Juv Detention Facility	$	10,108.25
82-SO Law Enforcement	$	906.46
83-216' District Attorney	$	2,088.25
86-216' CSCD	$	798.36
87-Community Service	$	470.71
TOTAL	$	465,978.14
Upon motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the
Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to pay the claims and accounts.
ORDER N0.31079
LATE BILL
HUMAN RESOURCES
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to pay the Statement from the National Association of
Professional Women in the amount of $508.95, after the removal of the wall plaque for
$199.00.
ORDER NO. 31080
MONTHLY REPORTS
Came to be heard this the 27th day of October, 2008, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams. The Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Monthly Reports from:
Constable Pct #3
Road & Bridge