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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Regular Session
Monday, July 13, 2009
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4

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I N D E X
July 13, 2009
--- Commissioners' Comments
1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve updated Kerr County Indigent Health
', Care policy which goes into effect 9-1-09
1.2 Consider/discuss, approve appointment of election
judges and alternates for term of one year in
accordance with Texas Election Code Section 32
1.3 Consider/discuss, approve consolidating polling
locations in accordance with Chapter 43 of Texas
Election Code
11.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
confirming enforcement of Kerr County Rabies
~ and Animal Control Order adopted August 11, 1997,
requiring animals brought to Flat Rock Lake Park
to be leashed at all times when in the park, and
further to restrict all animals to upper portion
of the park located to the east of Third Creek
1.7 Presentation regarding Kerr County 4-H Program
Interpretation to Commissioners Court
1.8 Public Hearing for Revision of Plat for Headwaters
Ranch, Phase 3, Volume 8, Pages 92-92, Precinct 4
1.9 Presentation by Rose Jackson, AACOG Housing
Manager, regarding Weatherization Assistance
Program's increased level of activities as a
result of funding from A.R.R.A.
1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
request from Grand Commandery of Texas Knights
Templar for a reduced rate for parking at HCYEC
1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
declare as surplus a list of information
technology equipment
1.5 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
engagement letter on FY 2009 audit by Neffendorf,
Knopp, Doss & Co., P.C.
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I N D E X (Continued)
July 13, 2009
1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve a 1-year contract for investment advisory
services with Patterson & Associates 92
1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
abandon, vacate, and discontinue Lots 216-222,
including 20-foot-wide road adjoining these lots
to the west in Center Point Estates, Unit Two;
set two public hearings --
1.11 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
buy RBU121 Caterpillar 420D backhoe
1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
install four "No Parking" signs at Brink's
Crossing on CP River Rd., Precinct 2, and also
install four "No Parking" signs at Waltonia
Crossing on Kelly Creek Rd., Precinct 4
1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve final revision of plat for Headwaters
Ranch, Phase III; release Letter of Credit for
Phases I, II, and III, and accept Maintenance Bond
for one year for Phases I, II, and III, Pct. 4
1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
regarding the 2010 Kerr Central Appraisal
District Operating Budget
1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
setting dates for budget workshops for FY 2010
budget
1.18 Presentation of audit report for office of the
District Clerk
1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
acceptance of audit of Environmental Health Dept.
1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
regarding eliminating part-time jailer position &
approving a full-time clerk position in the jail
1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
regarding renewal of Kerr County Teen Curfew
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I N D E X (Continued)
July 13, 2009
1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
request unclaimed Capital Credits received from
Electric Cooperative from Texas Comptroller of
Public Accounts; authorize County Judge to
prepare letter of request
1.23 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
adoption of resolution in opposition to Clean
Water Restoration Act
1.24 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
obtain assistance from architect(s), designer(s)
and/or planners to assist in layout and design of
building to house Adult Probation, elements of
Kerr County Sheriff's Office, and/or others
1.26 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
Amendment to Lease for Thad M. Ziegler Building
currently being used for Adult Probation Dept.
1.25 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
reviewing status of interlocal agreement with
City of Kerrville concerning subdivision rules
and regulations in the ETJ
1.27 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
professional printing of FY 2009-2010 budget book
1.28 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
determine whether or not Volunteer Fire Depts./
Kerr County can deliver water to citizens in
need of water due to wells running dry
4.1 Pay Bills
4.2 Budget Amendments
4.3 Late Bills
4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports
5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee
Assignments
5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads
1.29 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
regarding personnel issue (Executive Session)
Adjourned
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On Monday, July 13, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a regular
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in
the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let me call to order this
regularly scheduled meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners
Court posted and scheduled for this time and date, Monday,
July 13, 2009, at 9 a.m. It is that time now. Commissioner
Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Will everyone please join me in
a moment of prayer followed by the pledge?
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's
any member of the public or the audience that wishes to be
heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel
free to come forward and tell us what's on your mind at this
time. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would
prefer that you fill out a participation form. There should
be some located at the back of the room. It's not absolutely
essential that you do that, but it helps me to understand
that there are folks that wish to be heard on an item. But
if we get to an agenda item that you wish to be heard on and
you haven't filed a participation form, that's fine. Just
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get my attention in some manner and I'll give you the
opportunity to be heard. But right now, if there's any
member of the public or the audience that wishes to be heard
~' on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, come forward
~I
~, and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one coming
Ali forward, we'll move on. Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just a few words about
the drought. I mean, it's obviously as bad as it's been
since the '50's, certainly. I was at a meeting at U.G.R.A.
the other day; they said if we don't get any rainfall, they
anticipate the Guadalupe will quit running in Comfort late --
sometime late this month, early next month, which -- first
time that's happened since the '50's. Everyone needs to
conserve a little bit, do what they can. Kerrville's
probably going into Stage 3 drought restrictions this month,
looks like, unless we get some significant rains. That means
no landscape watering at all. It's their decision. I talked
to the City Manager about that a little bit; I think they
might want to relook at that, but not during the current
situation. So, anyway, it's a -- it'll have an impact on a
lot of people's lives. Construction projects are going to be
altered a little bit if that does happen. Our Road and
Bridge Department's going to have, you know, their situation
altered a little bit. I think we may want to look at the
County looking at the Little League well from the standpoint
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of -- from an emergency standpoint, hooking it up for some
use by Road and Bridge or others that may -- you know, we may
see the need to help out the public. So, that's a -- we're
fortunate that the groundwater situation is better than the
surface water situation. Aquifers, while they're falling
rapidly, they're -- it's not nearly at the level of the
surface water situation. Anyway, that's it. Hope we get
some rain.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't -- I think we got a
lengthy agenda. We do have new signs up at Ingram Lake.
There was kind of a coordinated effort between the
Maintenance and Road and Bridge to get those done, and I went
out and helped set one of them the other day, and Road and
Bridge people put the other one up. Got a couple new buoys
in, no-wake buoys up there to replace the old ones that you
couldn't read. One of them washed away. Anyway, things at
the lake seem to be a little bit better. Parks and Wildlife
has been out there in a boat on the lake a couple times. I
don't know if they've written any citations, but it appears
that things are better than they have been, and people are
using the trash cans a little bit more than what they were.
We had a big trash problem, so maybe the signage is working.
It was very inexpensive, didn't take much money or time to
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get it done, and Kelly at Road and Bridge did all the
lettering and everything, and Tim then painted the background
and a Road and Bridge guy and myself went out, installed
them. Anyway, that, and just the -- the drought is -- it's
serious, and we -- we have an item on the agenda that I
placed on there; we'll talk about that later. That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'm -- I wanted -- I
see Commissioner Williams has a really important issue here,
and I'm going to pass my time over to him. Thank you,
though.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I was just going to
tell the Court about the good time we had at Center Point on
Saturday, the annual down-home parade where the whole
community turns out, and it's typically -- typically little
town Texas, and I got to be a part of it. A lot of people
had a good time, and followed by the fireman's barbecue,
which is their annual fundraiser. I was sitting in my easy
chair one night reading the current edition of Texas Highway,
and I about fell out of my chair when I turned to Page 10,
and there's a big -- big story about Dave's Place on the
river. The Court remembers Dave, who -- we had some
environmental concerns and problems. And I'm pleased that
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they got the publicity and that he straightened out his
problems before the magazine hit the newsstand.
Just a follow-up on what Commissioner Letz is
in which they briefed -- they've got so many new board
members, they spent a good bit of time getting some of their
folks up to speed on their current issues. But the more --
even of more importance than that, the topics of what they're
involved in and what they want to continue to be involved in
in the future, and so there's -- there was a good bit of
discussion that took place over there about the Center Point
wastewater and companion water project, and whether or not
they're going to be able to find their way clear or see fit
to continue with that project. And then a very enlightening
discussion about their -- their diversion permit, the
subordination aspects of it, the flow control aspects of it,
and the diversion points aspects of it and so forth. And,
really, what it boils down to is, as a result of nonaction in
the Legislature, now that permit again is what it was
intended originally to be, for the beneficial use of people
outside the city limits of -- of Kerrville, so for all people
in the county, wherever, and so far as I'm concerned, that's
good news. Now, the question is, how do we put it -- how
does it get put to use as quickly as possible, and the most
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cost-effective way? So, it was a good discussion. Stayed
around and listened, asked questions and listened to their
consultants, and we'll see what happens.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Some of you may have read over the
last few days or week or so about the activities of our 4-H
people, some competitions they've been entered into. These
are mainly national competitions. I think it points out
the -- not only the need, but the success locally of our 4-H
programs. This is something that really impacts the youth of
our community. We hear repeatedly that there's nothing for
children to do, there's nothing for kids to do here; they're
always getting into trouble and on and on and on. There are
good things for these children to do. The 4-H has a fabulous
program. They've got a significant number of children in the
program. I don't want to steal Roy's thunder; I think he's
going to be giving us a report with regard to some of the
Agri-Life programs here a little bit later, and hopefully
he'll mention some of the success that those 4-H programs
have had that are administered in conjunction with his
office. But 4-H is a fantastic model for these kiddoes to
get involved in, and it really impacts their life on a
permanent basis. So, thank these kiddoes for the work they
do, and the adult leaders that are involved. There's a whole
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lot of them. Most of them are volunteers. But we appreciate
their work. Let's get on with our agenda. The first item on
the agenda is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate
action to approve an updated Kerr County Indigent Health Care
policy scheduled to go into effect on September 1, 2009.
Ms. Lavender?
MS. LAVENDER: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning.
MS. LAVENDER: Can you believe it's already been 10
months since we started this program? And we're moving along
real well down there. I think you all have been keeping up
with the budgetary end of it fairly regularly. This policy
~ is not going to be dated in terms of it will last from one
day to another day; this will become our permanent policy,
and from here on out, we'll just -- if we see changes in
state law or, you know, find things that we need to do, but
we don't need to come back all the time. You know, it's
taken us a little while to morph this thing, you know, to
what we want. Most of the changes are simply clarifications
or additions or rewording of things. We did add some -- what
I would call behavioral objectives into this. In going to
workshops, Dawn has found that a lot of the other counties
that have indigent health have behavioral objectives or
~ behavioral requirements with their policy, and so we kind of
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borrowed and put them in. I would entertain any questions
that you might have about any of it, and otherwise ask that
you approve it. And it'll go into effect 1st of September,
when our new budget year starts. And, far as I know, this is
the last time we'll need to come to you any time with any
significant things.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As an example here, I see in
red --
MS. LAVENDER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- the words "State-issued
MS. LAVENDER: Or Texas I.D. card.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: State-issued photo I.D.
MS. LAVENDER: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, the words "State-issued
photo," those are brand-new words.
MS. LAVENDER: Mm-hmm. That's correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And is that something that
came from this last Legislature?
MS. LAVENDER: I don't know that it came from the
Legislature, but it's come from a lot of the other policies
we've reviewed.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
MS. LAVENDER: Actually, the Legislature didn't do
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anything. They had several bills, like to increase the
maximum from 30,000 to 50,000 or 60,000 that we would pay out
a year, and some other things, but none of it came out of
committee and was approved that we know of. We've kind of
been following it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's amazing that we can
require -- I'm thrilled to death to see this, that they can.
MS. LAVENDER: Well, most people can get a Texas
I.D. card without a problem, so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That we require some kind
of --
MS. LAVENDER: We've always required a photo I.D.
of some sort, but not a State-issued one.
~'i COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- proof of who you are, and
it's really not that way with the voters bunch. But I'm
thrilled to see this, anyway. Let's go ahead.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rosa, the approved Kerr
County medical provider's office, that could be what, anybody
on our list?
MS. LAVENDER: Well, the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any provider on our list?
MS. LAVENDER: Right. Actually, the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or a specific one?
MS. LAVENDER: No, not a specific one. Actually,
25 ~ what we -- what we have in our policy is that we want them to
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see Kerr County medical providers when at all possible, and
if they go out of the county, they have to be recommended to
an out-of-county provider.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. LAVENDER: Like, if they had to have heart
surgery or, you know, had brain injuries or something, we
don't have people here that do that, and so we would --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. LAVENDER: But we want someone here connected
to it so that they have primary care when they come home,
back to the County.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure I want to ask the
question -- or want to hear the answer, but on the residency
requirement, what about illegal aliens?
MS. LAVENDER: We have -- we have people; we cannot
deny them coverage. That's -- we do not have very many on
the program now. There's very few.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, but if they're --
MS. LAVENDER: We're not anywhere close to Hidalgo
County and some of these other counties in south Texas that
have a large number of illegal --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But if they're illegal, could
be any county, but if they live here, they're covered.
MS. LAVENDER: And most of them have been here --
the ones that we have are longtime people who already have an
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I.D. card; some of them have driver's licenses. But, no, we
cannot deny them if they're illegal. We can ask for these
things, but we can't deny.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Lavender, looking on page --
it's going to be on Page 3 of the draft, about the middle of
the page, when we're talking about folks who are charged with
controlled substance offenses, I think there needs to be some
additional language beginning with the last sentence, "Client
will be denied prescription benefits beginning the date he or
she is..." You've got, "placed on probation."
MS. LAVENDER: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: That could be adjudicated or
nonadjudicated, or it could be that they're adjudicated and
not placed on probation, but incarcerated.
MS. LAVENDER: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: So I think we need to state, "he or
she is adjudicated or placed on probation, and continuing
from that date until two years from the date of the end of
the adjudication or probation period."
MS. LAVENDER: Okay. We worked on this -- this
paragraph in there, we spent hours on.
JUDGE TINLEY: And then towards the tail end,
"release date from Department of Criminal Justice or County
Jail."
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MS. LAVENDER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Because we have the same effect if
they're incarcerated locally.
MS. LAVENDER: All right, got it. We can do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Further on down, two paragraphs
down, is it pertinent if, under Subsection (d), if they are
denied Medicaid, S.N.A.P., T.A.N.F., or S.S.I. benefits?
MS. LAVENDER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: So we should modify that for the
receipt of or denial -- receipt or denial of --
MS. LAVENDER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- any of those. Let me make a
suggestion on the following page, a language clean-up that
will also clarify, I think, under KCIHP, the next to the last
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MS. LAVENDER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: The modified language, "will not
cover smoking cessation, erectile dysfunction, diabetic
supplies or other" -- and then you've added "or weight loss
medications."
MS. LAVENDER: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: After "diabetic supplies," comma,
"weight loss or other optional medications."
MS. LAVENDER: But the diabetic supplies, we cover.
It's the diabetic supplies that are -- that are
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over-the-counter that we don't cover. If it's insulin, we
cover it. We don't cover the needles or the test strips.
There's the difference.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the way it's worded here now,
diabetic supplies or other optional medications available
either by prescription or over the counter.
MS. LAVENDER: Okay. Okay, you're right. My bad.
All right. So, move "weight loss medications" up to -- okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Where it's after diabetic supplies.
MS. LAVENDER: All right, we can do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: And if you've got to take diabetic
supplies off there, and provide that over-the-counter
diabetic supplies are not covered as a separate sentence, and
take it out of there.
MS. LAVENDER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay?
MS. LAVENDER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's more of a -- those are the
only suggestions that I have.
MS. LAVENDER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Just to clarify, but I appreciate
your work on that policy. I think the work that you and
Ms. Lantz have done down there has had a significant impact
upon the budgetary requirements placed upon this county for
indigent health care requirements, and I've repeatedly told
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you and her, I appreciate your work.
MS. LAVENDER: Well, she's very good, and I think
we were very, very, very lucky to find her when we were ready
to hire someone. She's taken this on as a real challenge,
and some of the people we deal with are pretty challenging.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I know some of the language
you've got in there, I -- I hope it's permissible. It seems
that -- you know, I know you've got people that are
frustrated, but frustration is one thing. Combativeness is
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MS. LAVENDER: Oh, we can do that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Indigent Health Care
MS. LAVENDER: Exactly. And we've had to have the
bailiff down there a couple of times, so, you know, it's
good. We have a button to push, and so we just want to try
to -- try to avoid any situations if we can.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right at the beginning in
italics, you've got policy adopted by the Court at the
regular meeting in July. Do you need to insert a date there?
MS. LAVENDER: No. This is a regular meeting, and
then your second meeting is the special meeting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm saying maybe you need
to put the date in.
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policy as proposed and amended by the Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you
very much, Ms. Lavender.
MS. LAVENDER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 2; consider,
discuss, and approve appointment of election judges and
alternates for a term of one year in accordance with Texas
Election Code, Section 32. Ms. Alford?
MS. ALFORD: Morning. This is a yearly appointment
of judges and alternate judges that are submitted to us by
both parties. The Republican party submits the judges, and
Democratic party submits the alternate judges.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's been the system? I suppose
the dominant local party selects the --
MS. ALFORD: The judges.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- judges, and the minority party
selects the alternates?
MS. ALFORD: That's correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: And they're comfortable with that
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and have done that for years?
MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's go to
Item 3; consider, discuss, and approve and/or consolidation
of the polling locations in accordance with Chapter 43 of the
Texas Election Code. This is for the Constitutional
amendments election this November; is that correct?
MS. ALFORD: That's correct, yes, sir. We'd like
to consolidate to four different precincts, with early voting
~, being at the Cailloux Center. I -- right now, all I know is
there's, like, ten amendments. There probably are more, but
that's what I've seen.
~I~ JUDGE TINLEY: My recollection here, we have done
'~, this generally in the off election years.
MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: When there were elections of this
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MS. ALFORD: Correct, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not being these exactly?
MS. ALFORD: Exactly, right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Only one per precinct?
MS. ALFORD: Right, one per precinct for off years,
to cut down -- the turnout isn't as large as it is in the
general elections and primaries.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm fine with mine. Move
approval.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you,
I ma'am.
MS. ALFORD: Uh-huh. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go to Item 4; consider,
discuss, and take appropriate action confirming enforcement
of Kerr County Rabies and Animal Control order adopted August
the 11th, 1997, requiring animals brought into Flat Rock Lake
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Park to be leashed at all times when in the park, and further
restricts all animals to the upper portion of the park
located to the east of Third Creek. Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'd like to start
this discussion with a report from Animal Control Department
head, Janie Roman Whitt, and then I'd like to ask Mr. Bollier
to also follow Ms. Whitt and give us a report from the
Maintenance perspective. And we have a visitor in the
audience, Shelly Rose, who can follow those two and give us
an update on her experiences, if it pleases the Court.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Roman -- Whitt, excuse me. I'll
get used to that one of these days.
MS. WHITT: That's okay, I'm still getting used to
it myself. I have several concerns. One, of course, is
public safety. In the last month, I've had two animal bites
occur at the park. One was June 10th. Of course, I can't
give the name of the person that was bit. This person would
never have known to report it to us had he not gone to the
V.A. Hospital. The V.A. Hospital is required -- or any
hospital is required by law to contact us and let us know of
an animal bite. This was a stray, unleashed dog. I mean, it
was just -- we don't know that it was stray; it was an
unleashed dog. We have to call it a stray because we -- we
couldn't find an owner. This person did have to undergo
rabies treatment, which is painful and very expensive. Then
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on July 6th, we had another animal bite. The owner of the
dog left, so it took us about -- five hours, Marc? About
five hours to be able to -- I mean, we worked on this pretty
much half the day trying to find the owner of the dog, and we
did finally find the owner and quarantine the dog. But I'm
also getting reports from my officers of the dogs not being
under the direct control of the owners. When you have two
bites in a month, and then we have my officers going out and
patrolling the park, and they're coming back and telling me
that they've got one dog at the end of the park or, you know,
more than one dog at the end of the park, and the owners are
at the other end, in our opinion, that's not under the direct
control of the owner. Marc Allen had an incident -- well,
he's had several incidents, but he did have one incident
occur this morning. Do you want to --
MR. ALLEN: Well, this morning, I -- I went by the
park at a quarter till 8:00, and when I was pulling in, there
were four people walking dogs. Two of them were on leash,
and there were three big dogs, approximately 60-, 70-pound
dogs. When I came around one end of the parking, they're on
the other side, and there was a long-haired white dog that
was about 40 or 50 yards behind the people walking. Nobody's
even watching that dog; it's just kind of doing its own
thing. So, I pull on around, and one of the ladies flagged
me down and stopped me, and she said, "Well, you know, you
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told me a long time ago I could bring my dogs over here. Now
you're all wanting to shut this down." I explained to her; I
said, "I think they just want to put the dogs on leashes so
they're under your control." And she had two dogs that were
about 40 yards in front of her. And I said, "See, like these
dogs over here, they're not under anybody's control." And
she said, "Yes, they are," and she yelled at them, and they
didn't budge. So, I mean, that was this morning. And she,
you know, got a little argumentative and she said, "Just
wait, wait," and called them again. And they hesitated a
second, and one of them started to come towards us, and then
the other one followed it. Well, when it got up to the car,
it didn't even have its rabies tags on it; it had personal
tags. And I said, "Well, where's your rabies tags?" Like
the sign says, you're supposed to have that. "Well, they're
in my car." Well, that's not what the sign says. And if
they're not under your control --
j MS. WHITT: The law does require for them to be
wearing their collars and tags, and to be registered. It
doesn't do us or anyone a bit of good if the tags are -- are
I, in the car. We've also been out there -- I personally have
been out there numerous times on my lunch break. On
weekends, my husband and I like to go fishing. I had to
break up -- and Commissioner Williams and I had discussed
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this months and months ago. I had to break up a dogfight,
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and I reminded him of that again last week. I had to break
up a dogfight on my -- on my own time because this little
lady couldn't -- there was no way she could separate the
dogs. My officers and I personally have also seen dogs
chasing squirrels, chasing ducks, and that -- you know,
that's what's going to happen if these dogs are not on
leashes. I think two bites in less than a month, that's
serious.
MR. ALLEN: Let me finish my story.
MS. WHITT: Oh.
MR. ALLEN: As I was pulling away this morning, I
got all the way to the end of the park, and those three
dogs -- I looked in my rearview mirror; it looked like they
were chasing my truck. And as I got all the way to the end,
I looked, and they were all the way across the park and
they're chasing squirrels up the tree. You know, I don't
know how that could be under anybody's direct control there.
So, I think we have a real problem there. So, that's the end
of my story.
MS. WHITT: I also have -- there was also an
incident that occurred Friday that I was just made aware of
just ten minutes ago from Laurinda Boyd.
MS. BOYD: We had our 4-H fishing derby there on
Friday morning. It's just a once-a-year deal that we do, and
we had about 84 kids from the local day care centers, 26 of
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my 4-Hers, and they just partner with the kids and fish, and
we congregate down at that -- I don't even know if you call
it a certain area, but where the turnaround -- the circle by
that big tree is, and there was several people walking with
their dogs. And most of them, you know, they were not on
leashes and they were with their people, you know, just kind
of walking in their area. I just said, "Hey, we're having a
special event; we'll be through by noon," and they were real
courteous and nice. One lady -- there was a kind of a yellow
lab-looking dog that came down, and he was up in the middle
of the kids, wouldn't go on. And -- and I kept trying to
find the owner. Well, finally, I grabbed him by the collar
and started just walking up the road. Well, she was
three-quarters of the way back up towards the boat ramp deal.
And I told her, I said, you know, "I'm sorry, but we're
having a youth event right now, if you wouldn't mind just,
you know, taking control of your dog." "Well, we don't have
to have them on leashes." I said, "Well, I understand that,
but," I said, "you know, he can't be roaming amongst the
kids." "He doesn't bite. I know he doesn't bite." And I
said, "Well, it doesn't matter. Something can happen." Any
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~~, animal will bite if they're -- you know, something happens.
So, anyway, she wasn't real friendly, but she did finally
take her dog. Well, then she came back down with the yellow
one on the leash, walking up in the middle of all of us, with
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the other dog not on the leash. Now, I mean, she kind of was
just being a little -- you know. Anyway -- but, you know,
they're definitely not being controlled. There -- I mean,
there's a difference between having the dog right with you
and letting them roam halfway across the park, you know. So,
anyway -- and we had a great fishing day.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this being under
control, this issue, that's obviously some kind of state law.
And --
MS. WHITT: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No?
MS. WHITT: No, that's the county order.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the county
ordinance -- not an ordinance. But what does being "under
control" mean? I mean, can -- can I be -- can my dog be
200 yards away from me and me still be under control? What
does that mean?
MS. WHITT: Well, I would think -- and, Rex,
correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think that under your
effective control would mean that if you call your dog, your
dog's going to come.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. EMERSON: Buster, under Subsection 4.1(a) of
the county order, it says the owner or custodian of each dog
or cat shall restrain the animal and prevent them from
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running at large. That's pretty clear cut.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Running at large as
opposed to running at small?
MR. EMERSON: I guess so.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right.
MS. WHITT: I just -- we've had numerous problems
in the past, you know, and they -- they come in spurts. I
know that my officers have actually chased dogs that have
actually been in the park, and they leave the park property
and they're actually chasing them over by Maldonado's Nursery
onto Highway 27, which is in the city.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, let me -- the term
"restrained" is defined in the Commissioners Court order. It
says it's either physically restrained by leash, fence, pen,
or other device; i.e. -- or is physically located on the
', property of the owner or custodian, or supervised by and
under the direct control of the owner or custodian. When I
say direct control and -- "supervised by and under the direct
control," I think that connotes some degree of nearness.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree.
JUDGE TINLEY: It does to me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it does to me, too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So your recommendation, Janie,
is that we require that all dogs be leashed in the county?
MS. WHITT: Correct.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MS. WHITT: That's my recommendation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Janie. The
other issue that's constantly being brought to my attention
is from Mr. Bollier, who is responsible for maintenance of
the park with his crew. Tim, take a minute and tell us
what's on your mind.
MR. BOLLIER: Well, since the last time that we've
talked about this, you know, the dog people were asked to
keep the parks cleaned up and clean up after themselves.
Well, this isn't being done. I'll just say real recently,
Commissioner Williams had asked me to unlock the gate.
Mr. Odom's bunch has finished the bridge project down there,
~' so I unlocked the gate. Well, next day I go down there to
check, and what do I have? Right down the middle of the
road, you got -- dog poo, okay? I'll just use "poo."
Nobody's cleaning it up. I've got Sonny who goes down there
and mows the park, cleans up the park. When he comes back to
the Ag Barn, you can spell him coming, and when he gets off
the tractor -- (Laughter.) -- when he gets off the tractor,
the back of his shirt is covered with --
MS. HYDE: Poo.
MR. BOLLIER:	-- dog	poo,	whatever we	want	to	call
it, okay? Don't sit --	I mean,	they	can't sit	there	and	tell
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me they're cleaning it up, and then when I go down to the
park and they've got -- right at the front gate, they've got
a little doggy bag thing that they can get their bags and
carry them -- carry the bags and clean up their dog poo, put
it back in the trash can when they leave. Well, this -- this
container, I've gotten out of the truck; I did it three days
in a row, go up there to push and see if it's being used.
Well, it's still tight, so that's telling me there isn't no
gloves or whatever they want to call them coming out of
there. I look down at the trash can; the only thing I see in
the trash can are people that are bringing bread sacks or
Walmart bags or Walgreen bags and cleaning up their dog poo
that way, but these bags aren't being used that's there. And
like Janie says and Marc says, I see the dogs all the way at
the end of park. People aren't keeping their dogs under
control. People can't -- I've said this before. People
can't even enjoy the county park because of the dogs. The
dogs are taking over. Something needs to be done. I mean,
it's a shame when you got taxpayers out there that wants to
come fishing out at the park, and they can't because they --
you've got this dog stuff all over the place. Like Laurinda
says, it's a shame you can't even take the 4-H kids down
there; you got dogs in the middle of people. You know,
that's not right. And as far as the clean-up process, I --
my guys, when I ask them to go clean up the park, they just
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look at me and go, "Hmm." You know, they don't want to go
down there any more. So, you know, I can sit up here and
talk forever, but the park needs -- something needs to be
done with the dogs. The dogs need to have their own place.
I mean, I have two dogs at home. I love my dogs, but I take
care of my dogs. And, you know, I don't -- you know, and so
if you're not going to take care of your dogs, I'd just
appreciate if they leave them at home.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Tim. Judge, the
other person that I'd like to address the Court for a minute
would be Shelly Rose, and Shelly, if you'll come to the
podium, please, and identify yourself. And this is the lady
who spent some time with me on Friday, I think, or Thursday,
whichever, and we discussed her incident. Shelly, I would
like to ask you to keep your comments as concise as possible.
MS. ROSE: Yes, sir, I sure will.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because we have a long
agenda, and there are other people who want to speak to this
issue.
MS. ROSE: Yes, sir. Good morning. My name is
Shelly Rose, and thank you all very much for inviting me to
come and speak today. I did want to come in person, 'cause I
believe it's a relevant and very important issue for all of
us, and not just my own personal experience. I want to let
you know that I -- in response to what Janie said, I only
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called Animal Control myself after several encounters there
in the park, as a preventive -- a future preventive from my
dog being attacked, and myself as well, because I was bitten
on the second encounter. And I didn't know that they had to
be informed on the day that I was bitten, which was Monday
following July 4th. They happened to be closed for the --
for the holiday weekend; they took Monday off rather than
Friday. And so, on the -- and I went in there to see what
intercession they would be able to provide in the face of
these ongoing uncontrolled dog attacks.
And the first day that I encountered this situation
was on Sunday over the 4th of July weekend, and a woman's dog
did come and rush at my dog. Well, my dog's bigger, but that
doesn't really mean anything. She's got all of her shots,
tags, wears them all the time, is leashed every time that
she's out in public. She's never off-leash. And when
someone else's uncontrolled dog rushes at you, you're a
sitting duck there; there's nothing to do. And I kind of
reeled my dog in as short as I could on the leash and tried
to pull her away, but the little dog ran, like, right into
her mouth, and so a dogfight ensued. And when I saw her
rushing towards me, I saw the woman that -- from whom she
ran, and I was calling over to her, "Call your dog. Call
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your dog. Please control your dog." And she was -- just
didn't. And whether she called him or not, there was really
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I don't think any effort on her part to control her dog.
This fight ensued. I did manage to say to her, "You really
need to control your dog," and that was kind of the end of
the first day.
The second day I went back again with my dog -- and
I want to say this, too. I have been walking her in the
afternoons after things cool down a little bit. She's a
Siberian husky, you know; she's got this thick fur and she
can't go out and tolerate the heat during the day. And in
defense of the, I think, majority or large number of dog
owners, I found the people in the park in the evening were
wonderful people, responsible, very courteous amongst
themselves with their dogs. My dog swims in the river with
the kids. She's a beautiful dog, and everyone approaches her
and pets her. She's just a -- a wonderful dog. And people
would have their dogs running free, but they were -- seemed
to be watching them, in the afternoon. Afternoon. And they
would call, and the dog would stop and go back to the owner,
and I didn't have a problem. And only when I started walking
her in the mornings, because in the evenings -- it just
wasn't cooling down in the evenings, so I got up in the
morning real early to take her down, and that's when this
situation occurred with these people.
I didn't know at the time, just kind of my
I perceptions of what was going on around me; it seemed like
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there was a large number of them, and then there was me. And
I was following the law, my dog was following the law, yet
still we were kind of victimized by what was going on. I
didn't realize that the first day; I thought it was kind of a
random thing with this woman, and then I went back the second
day, and the same woman and the same dog and the same
situation. There was a considerable distance between us, and
she had the opportunity -- we all saw each other. She did
not put a leash on her dog or make any attempt to control
him. He came rushing again right into my dog's mouth.
Another dogfight that ended up in me getting a dog bite.
And, again, I was calling to her, "Call your dog, call your
dog." And, you know, she didn't. It was at that point in
time -- I kind of don't want to mix up issues, but I
understand there are jurisdictional issues, county and city,
down there at the park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not jurisdiction over the
park, as such. Only -- only some geographical boundaries.
The boat ramp is not in the -- is in the city limits, I
think, technically, and the rest of the park is not.
MS. ROSE: Yes, sir. And I understood subsequent
to all of this that dogs in that little slice of
City-controlled property right there at the -- the boat ramp
was Kerrville P.D. jurisdiction, and then everything on the
side of this little fence the major length of the park was
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county. So, all of that I didn't know at the time. But, at
any rate, after this second dog attack, and when I got bit, I
was attempting to have some communication from this woman
that, you know, I was bit and something needed to be done
about it, and then appeared this mystery man, who was --
after the attack, was walking with her the length of the
park. They hastily put her in her automobile, and off she
went. And I tied up my dog and started to run after this car
to get the license plate number. I had every intention of
going to Kerrville P.D. and saying, "What do I do?" I didn't
really know about Animal Control or what my options for my
safety and the safety of my dog were. And she drove out of
the park, and then there was this man, and he was in between
my pickup and my dog that I had tied. And as I passed him up
to go get my dog -- and I thought he's a resource for finding
this woman, and when I asked him did he know her, he just
unleashed a barrage of curses at me that were just absolutely
startling. This terrible altercation occurred.
The woman -- I don't want to forget to say this --
at this second attack, told me that my dog was vicious. Her
dog attacked mine twice, yet my dog's vicious. And that I
was stupid for bringing a vicious dog to that park, all this
kind of terrible stuff. At any rate, this altercation with
the man occurred at the boat ramp, which is city. And when I
was trying to say, "Look, I'm bitten and I need to -- if you
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know that woman, you know, we need to get in touch with her."
And this cursing went on. He shoved me, raised this huge
stick that he was carrying that was at least that tall and
that big around, and raised it and threatened me with it.
And I at that time took my cell phone out of my pocket and
dialed 911, and the Sheriff's Department came; several
Kerrville P.D. units came into the park. By that time, he
had walked away from me and was a distance away from me. The
investigation that was done at that time, even though I did
show my leg to the Sheriff's officer who approached me first,
and another Kerrville P.D. officer, apparently the officer in
charge of the investigation that morning, that information
didn't get transmitted to him.
And also, I was told because there were no
witnesses in this situation, that the officer said the only
choice that he had was either to let us both go or arrest us
both. I mean, it just was really kind of a bit of a fiasco.
And I've got a diabetic dog that I need to get her home and
give her her shots, and I'm sitting there going, "Let's see,
do I want to be arrested this morning or what?" And, at any
rate, it was not very well handled. I told the officer on
the scene that although I was certainly not looking to -- to
have this thing continue on, that I wasn't happy with how
things had been conducted, because nothing was resolved. I
was still at risk. My dog was still at risk, and the whole
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thing was only going to repeat itself, and I was not going to
just leave it at that. I was told that I was free to do
anything I wanted to do, and -- and so I did. The next day,
Tuesday, when Animal Control opened up, I went there and
spoke with Janie and spoke with Marc, showed them my leg, and
they said that they had to, by law, make a dog bite report,
and that started having to get in touch with the police
officials to contact this man to contact that woman to get to
the dog that -- which is now quarantined on account of this
bite. And then this -- the civil matter separated from the
dog bite matter, and all of this is like a cat and a dog in a
gunny sack. And all I did was come down there to walk my
dog, and I feel very victimized, because I'm following the
law, my dog is following the law. She's a wonderful dog, and
yet here we still are hanging in the breeze here with no
ability to -- to feel safe, and in a city park.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
MS. ROSE: Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can appreciate that most
of the people who are here today attending because of this
issue are those who are responsible and have done their best
to do a good job with their respective -- restraining their
animals, but the fact remains that we still have a problem.
A couple other things I want to point out to the Court, and
then I'm sure there are others that want to talk about it.
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The County Attorney can correct me if I'm incorrect, but it
seems to me that the County probably has a liability issue
here with an order on its books that calls for restraint, and
not enforcing that order, and then people get bitten; then
that certainly gives somebody the notion that the County has
a responsibility. Perhaps; I don't know. But anyhow, we put
that out there for whatever it's worth.
Second thing is, Mr. Odom and his people have done
a very fine job of opening up the other section of the park.
For those of you who haven't been there, the road leading to
the bridge over Third Creek is -- is open, and Leonard and
his folks have dressed up the area leading up to the bridge.
It's very passable and very good, and have fixed the egress
part going into the new section of the park so that the
incline is not as steep as it was, and is very passable.
There's cabling up there. There's a parking area on the new
section of the park. And, as the Court knows, the agenda
item calls for restricting animals to that section of the
park east of Third Creek. There probably are some other
people who want to talk about it, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other member of the Court have
any comments to make before we have the public participation?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have comments after.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Mr. Palmer?
25 ~ MR. PALMER: Yes.
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JUDGE TINLEY: You filed a participation form. If
you'll come forward and tell us your name and address, tell
us what's on your mind.
MR. PALMER: Can I wait and let the others talk
before me?
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not going to play that game,
sir.
MS. TATUM: I simply have to go.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not going to get into wanting to
go after this one and -- if you got something to say, come
tell us.
MR. PALMER: I'm just doing it as a courtesy,
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's a courtesy for you to be
able to speak, Mr. Palmer. And --
MR. PALMER: I can speak. I just wanted to let
somebody speak before me.
JUDGE TINLEY: We've got 28 agenda items here that
we need to get through.
MR. PALMER: That's quite a few.
JUDGE TINLEY: And a lot of this -- a lot of this
opening up of the park, as I recall, was done at your behest
earlier.
MR. PALMER: Well, be that as it may, I first
wanted to commend Mr. Williams for calling me on Thursday and
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giving me a heads-up on this meeting, and letting me know
that -- that y'all were going to be trying to get this to be
a -- to get rid of our off-leash status. I don't know if you
remember, but back in 2008, a few months after the
Commissioners agreed to let us go, let us be on-leash, I came
by your office for a meeting. And it's just been a couple of
months afterwards, and so I -- I came by to find out how
things were going at the park, and you said, "Mr. Palmer, the
park is dirty. We're going to have to consider putting it on
the agenda to close it." And as we were sitting there, your
maintenance man walked in and said the park's in better shape
than it's ever been in --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was then and this is
MR. PALMER: -- and it looks better than it's ever
been in. And then you said, "Oh, all right. Nevermind,
Mr. Palmer." Well, at that time, you let me know that you
were going to complain about the park no matter what was
going on. You were listening --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Palmer -- time out.
Just a second, Mr. Palmer.
MR. PALMER: No, let me finish.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palmer, if you've got further
comments to make about the agenda item, let's talk about
that.
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MR. PALMER: Well, I am talking about the park.
JUDGE TINLEY: Have you got some comments to make
about on or off leash, or restricting to -- to the portion of
the park east of Third Creek?
MR. PALMER: Okay. Anyway, at that time the park
was in good shape, but you were telling me it wasn't. I want
to say that there's much been made about this biting
incident. Well, biting occurs whether dogs are on-leash or
off-leash. In fact, it's probably more likely to happen that
dogs will bite when they're on-leash, because they're trying
to protect their owners or they're territorial. So, using
that as the reason for getting rid of our off-leash
privilege, the argument can easily be made that on-leash,
you're going to have as much or more problems; you're likely
to. So, I don't think that that's a proper reason to use for
taking away our off-leash status. We are the only park in
town that has a dog bag dispenser. In other words, we're the
only ones who provide -- and those of us who are off-leash
are the ones providing this service, not the County. And
we're providing the bags at our own expense to help keep that
park clean. And you might say, "Well, there is still dog poo
being left in the park." Well, there is some, and there
always will be, because not everybody's going to use dog
bags. But I think if you would go down to Tranquility Park
and see the amount of crap in that park, you would know what
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a real problem was.
So, this is another thing I don't -- we try to,
most of us, keep that park clean. Also, any dogs that -- a
dog that might run after a squirrel or dogs that are not --
in other words, you haven't determined what the exact
distance is a dog has to be from its owner. So, there's
still dogs under control that are maybe 50 yards away or 100
yards away. That being the case, if I have suggested this
new area that you just opened -- and I think we're all more
the on-leash people. If we can continue to follow the
ordinance that is in effect now, so -- is that true, that we
will be following that -- the same ordinance in that area?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're directing a question
to me?
MR. PALMER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The agenda item calls for
dogs to be leashed at all times when in the park, and
further, to restrict the animals to the upper section --
portion of the park located east of the Third Creek. Does
that answer your question?
MR. PALMER: No, not exactly, because the -- Order
28209 says requires owner to restrain their animals by leash
or be supervised by or under the direct control of the owner.
This is your own Commissioners Order 28209, and that is what
-- if we are given that area, we want to continue to follow
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that ordinance, which is what we are following now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about the
Rabies and Animal Control order, I believe, of 1997.
August 11, 1997, adopted by this Court.
MR. PALMER: I'm talking about Kerr County
Commissioners Order 28209.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about
restraining --
MR. PALMER: Which is the sign that is at the park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm talking about the
original Rabies and Animal Control order of 1997 that
established the leash law, which is state law, by the way,
which reaffirms state law in our local order. That's what
I'm asking this Court to reaffirm, that we follow state law
and follow the directions of our own order, which is to keep
animals leashed if they're in the park.
MR. PALMER: Your own order says to restrain
animals by leash or be supervised by or under the direct
control of the owner. That is your own order.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palmer, I think the issue before
the Court is, is the Court going to take under consideration
the amendment of that order to delete anything other than
either restrained by fence, leash, or other similar device,
as in the first part of that definition of restraint.
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MR. PALMER: Well, we`re asking --
JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's what's before the
Court right now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct, Judge.
MR. PALMER: What I am proposing is that if we are
given that area down there, which will be apart from the rest
of the park, which will mainly only be used by us, that we be
able to use this same Order 28209 that we use, that we
restrain the animals by leash or be supervised by or under
the direct control of the owner.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not my -- that was
not my intent in the order -- in placing it on the agenda the
way it is styled. And what you're saying, of course, does
not take into consideration that you are not the only people
who use the park. That is a park for the purposes of the
general public, for their enjoyment and their benefit, not
just dog owners.
MR. PALMER: Right. But will you grant us this
compromise if you're going to stick us off down the side of
the park?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sticking you
anywhere. If you get down to that, I'm going to come back
and say we're going to stick you outside the park.
MR. PALMER: Okay, you can do that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know. I can try.
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JUDGE TINLEY: We understand your position,
Mr. Palmer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question for the
County Attorney. Are you finished, Mr. Palmer?
MR. PALMER: What?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are you finished?
MR. PALMER: One last thing. I had asked to be
scheduled for September the 8th for -- to have Dog Day. I
want to withdraw that, because I think that Mr. Williams
might try to sabotage that, as he has our off-leash park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sabotaging
anything, Mr. Palmer.
MR. PALMER: That's where I come -- that's what I
see.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're entitled to your
point of view.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Quick question.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Palmer? First -- if you would,
please -- if you would, because the Court has previously
taken action on that, if you would send us an e-mail or
something in writing so that we can have that to document
your withdrawal of that request for that event, I'd
~' appreciate it, okay?
MR. PALMER: Or a letter?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that'd be fine.
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MR. PALMER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. You had a question?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rex, is the state law exactly
as we adopted it, where it has that language, "under direct
control"? Or did -- is our order slightly different than
state law?
MR. EMERSON: I don't know. I'll be happy to pull
the Health and Safety Code and look.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, since we have a few more
-- yeah. It would be -- I'd just -- I'd like to follow state
law as much as we can.
JUDGE TINLEY: Forgive me if I butcher this name.
Erdmuthe Jackman? Give your name and address; tell us what's
on your mind, please.
MS. JACKMAN: Beg your pardon?
JUDGE TINLEY: If you'll give us your name and
address, and then tell us what's on your mind.
MS. JACKMAN: E-r-d-m-u-t-h-e, Jackman.
JUDGE TINLEY: And where do you live?
MS. JACKMAN: I have to spell it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. And you live on Stone Ridge
Drive in Kerrville?
MS. JACKMAN: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. JACKMAN: I used to go down here in Kerrville
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in the park, sometimes two, three, sometimes four dogs, and
take them on the native trail. Not many people come there.
I let them off. They listen. Your Animal Control guy this
morning said they weren't under control. I called them. One
came immediately. The other one, I had -- she's 12 years
old, a hunting dog, hard-of-hearing a little bit, so -- she
came galloping. I don't know how far -- I think when I call
them and they come, they are under control. I let them run
in the park. They chase squirrels, yes. They never catch
one. My -- my dog, my personal dog, is a German shorthair.
She can't bank quick enough to even catch, but she chases
them. We have about two acres at home, and the squirrels
have gotten so used to her, they tease her. (Laughter.) And
you might know it, they -- they will do that. But every
other dog that I have taken from the neighborhood, the first
thing I have taught them to listen. I have a shock collar.
They first go out on a leash to learn their commands. When
they know the commands, they are off the leash. They get the
collar on. Sure in heck, they think, "Ha, ha, ha, I can go."
Little bit of push, they learn different.
And I love for my dogs to go down there and run,
even the old one. I go early in the morning. I just
absolutely -- they play around. They -- yes, they run after
the squirrels. They play. Yes, they play and they growl
where you think they would bite. If you know a dog, you know
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if it's serious or not. And I always take a cane. If one of
them becomes too ornery, ha, ha, ha, they get the message.
But have you to know animals, really. And I don't beat them.
No way. But I make them obey. I take them up -- where we
live, there's a hill up, and I take them down early in the
morning, I used to, before I took them out in the park. No
leash. They were taught on the leash, and then they
better -- and that is what needs -- and, gentlemen, when
Sunday morning I went up there and picked up trash after the
4th of July, it looked terrible, by the way. But as long as
I feel I call them and they come -- yes, I can tell them heel
and they will stay there, but that is training. And maybe
some people have to be taught how to train their dogs. A dog
needs a leader. That's -- and you got to make sure you are
the leader. Now, I hate to see us not be able to let the
dogs run. And sometimes I have four, but when I call them,
they come. And I was not getting smart with that gentleman
when I told him the dogs are coming. Yes, I had to sit there
and call one of them. He said I was trying to get -- no. I
feel when they come, they are under my control, any time I
call them.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Jackman.
MS. JACKMAN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Margaret Tatum?
MS. TATUM: Good morning, and thank you so much for
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allowing me to talk.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Tatum, you live at 214 Wood
Trail in Kerrville; is that correct?
MS. TATUM: Yes, way over off Goat Creek, so to go
to the park, I have to come a long way.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
MS. TATUM: Although I've found that when I leave
at daybreak, I can get over to the park in 20 minutes,
because I can get green lights all the way, and that's when I
take my dog to the park. Now, I've been going there most of
the time for 11 years, with a dog before this one. This is a
rescue dog, a big, beautiful Doberman that I got from
Cailloux when she was 14 months old. She's now five and a
half. Now, I want to set the record a little straight here.
You know, all these years I've been going over there, I've
been over there when there are county workers over there,
lots of them, you know, trying to keep the park clean. When
the prisoners are over there from the county, lots of times
they're -- and the Sheriff, and just chatting about dogs one
day -- I think he was the Sheriff, 'cause he was in the
Sheriff's car; he was either a deputy or a Sheriff -- said to
me, "The only thing that we want you to do with these dogs is
don't let them go near the prisoners because of liability."
Never had a complaint in 11 years with all these dogs. Never
had a complaint, I believe, from the county workers, or we
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never ever heard about it.
The bags that were put up there, a businessman in
Kerrville anonymously, 'cause he thought it was such a
wonderful place to take dogs, although he doesn't have one,
he donated that. He put up the money to have that -- buy
that and have it installed. Now, I don't know where this is
coming with the bags aren't taken, but when I'm over there, I
see people with bags all the time. And not only that, we
keep the park clean. I have to tell you, last Sunday morning
I was over there at 6:45, and I thought I'm just going to
make a walk around here before I go -- I do both parks --
before I go up into the undeveloped part. And when I walked
around, I saw numerous empty plastic bottles, beer cans, even
saw an article of clothing that looked quite suspicious.
(Laughter.) And toilet paper. I don't know what was in that
toilet paper, but I wasn't going to look. Now, that doesn't
come from the dogs. And as far as extra poop in the park,
you know, there are strays that go in that park. In fact, I
found one there that had been hit by a car one time and had
to go -- I mean, there are these strays around in that
particular area that go in there, and we can't be responsible
for those strays, you know.
But I heard someone talking this morning -- I was
over there at 6:45 this morning, and up in the upper part --
I park on the street and go down where all the rough dirt is,
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and off we go in there. But I heard some people that had
come up from the lower park talking about it, and they said,
"Well, that's the last time we're going to pick up garbage in
a county park and keep it clean the way we do." Because we
do pick up that garbage, and we did keep that park clean.
Now, I -- I think we're not even thinking -- we're talking
about us; we're not talking about dogs, in a way. You know,
I have people come in from out of town that I take down
there, because I think it's a good advertisement for Kerr
County that they see these dogs having a great time playing.
It's a very friendly kind of atmosphere. Now, my -- and
there -- as someone said, there are plenty of parks in town
where you can walk a dog on a leash. Kerrville-Schreiner,
Louise Hays, Elm Creek Park, up here at Singing Winds, I've
been to them all, and you have to have your dog on a leash.
Now, I have a dog that benefits the community, and
there are many of us that do this. My dog goes to nursing
homes, hospitals, Head Start. She doesn't ask to go there.
She doesn't want to go there. In fact, one of the
facilities -- nursing facilities we go to, she doesn't really
like it. No one could tell but me, because I can tell the
way she looks at me, like, "Mom, have we got to be here?"
'Cause she doesn't like the smells, and she doesn't like the
slippery floor. Well, all I've got to say is, "Go, girl,"
and she knows exactly what she's got to do. She'll go in and
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put her head on that old-timer's -- patient's knee. And the
nurses are amazed. This man doesn't. react to anything --
anyone else, but he tries to get a little smile and he moves
his head a little, and he tries to put his hand on that dog.
Now, for me to keep this big dog healthy -- she's a working
breed. You know, she can't make me a cup of tea; she can't
do housework. I've got to take her out for her mental
health, as well as physical health, to run. I take her in
the park and I say, "Girl, go," and she'll go from one length
of that -- but she knows where I am all the time. The minute
I stop walking, she's there right by my side.
Now, I find that -- you know, she's with me when I
do water samples. I've volunteered for U.G.R.A. all summer
for the last six years. She goes with me and stands guard
while I take my water samples. And, you know, I think we've
got to think about the dogs, too. And I've had a friend who
-- well, not really a friend, an acquaintance who's a vet as
well as a dog trainer, and he always says that most problem
-- the dogs he has the most problem with are those that are
on-leash, because they are fearful they cannot get away, you
know, if there's something threatening, and also they get the
generation of fear from their owner. So, that's all I wanted
to say to you, and I thank you for -- and I hope we can take
our dogs to the upper part there where I can let mine off
where she can run and stay healthy, and contribute to the
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community.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Tatum. We appreciate
it. Ms. Leach? Judy Leach?
MS. LEASH: No, I'm passed.
AUDIENCE: She wants to pass.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Johanna Roussel?
MS. ROUSSEL: I'll be brief.
JUDGE TINLEY: From up on Ridge Road?
MS. ROUSSEL: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. ROUSSEL: I also go every morning, and I think
it's a great environment. A lot of friendly people, a lot of
friendly dogs. And I don't know if a compromise has ever
been proposed, that perhaps for -- like, from 7:00 to 9:00 in
the morning, we could have off-leash at the park. If you
don't want to come between 7:00 and 9:00 'cause you're afraid
that your dog will be attacked on a leash -- or I don't think
many picnickers are out there picnicking from 7:00 to 9:00.
I'm just bringing it up. Could we have maybe a trial period,
and during those hours you could have your dog off the leash?
I do know that we are using bags. I don't know what happens
the rest of the day, but Mr. Palmer is daily refeeding that
dog thing. And I'm wondering, all these other parks where
the dogs are on leash roaming around, there's no bags. Are
people picking up? I don't think as much. Everybody that I
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see in the morning, our big group, we pick it up immediately.
I can't talk about what others do. I know we're using bags.
I don't think any squirrels, or ducks either, have been
killed that I can think of. And so my understanding is, as
-- as you want to propose it, the new part will not be off
leash?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the nature of the
~ proposal.
MS. ROUSSEL: So, you could still have on-leash
dogs in Flat Rock as well, so what's the difference? Or
there won't be any dogs allowed ever?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What we're proposing is
that dogs be on-leash in the new section of the park, leaving
the original section of the park without animals in it.
MS. ROUSSEL: Oh, no animals. But all the other
~ parks in town --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we can clean up and do
some things more people-friendly.
MS. ROUSSEL: All the other parks in town -- if I
want to go to Tranquility, that's a problem.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know about that.
That's city.
MS. ROUSSEL: I see. But there would be no animals
even on-leash in the -- in the Flat Rock one?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm proposing we restrict
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them to the new section.
MS. ROUSSEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the proposal.
MS. ROUSSEL: But on-leash?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am.
MS. ROUSSEL: And I would appeal also to let us try
it off-leash up there. Anybody that's fearful, don't go up
there. That's what I say. And I guess that's it. And I'm
I
also curious, these two -- this rash of dog bites that -- I
don't know if it's the same person that's been bit twice, or
two --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's two different
people.
MS. ROUSSEL: What's happened in years previous?
Have we had any?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You got to direct that
question to Animal Control. They keep the records.
MS. WHITT: I have to go back and look, but yes, we
have had bites in the past in the park.
MS. ROUSSEL: Okay, I was just -- just checking.
Okay, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me that if -- if
there's going to be a proposal to modify the current Animal
Control ordinance, that we have to have a public hearing,
notice of that public hearing, and only after a public
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ordinance, yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, to change any part of the
ordinance, would -- would we have to do that also? For
example, if the ordinance were to be amended to provide that
-- to eliminate the section dealing with the direct
control -- supervision and direct control, as opposed to just
being on-leash or restrained or within a fence, would that
require a public hearing to amend the ordinance -- the order?
MR. EMERSON: To change the order, yes, Judge. But
I think as far as just regulating that park, y'all can pass
whatever order you deem is appropriate for public safety for
the park.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That would not require a
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MR. EMERSON: Not other than what you have right
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. Ms. Whitt, did you
have some additional comments?
MS. WHITT: I just had a couple comments; that I
feel that whether we restrict it to just the top portion, and
what they're asking is that we allow them to move up to the
top portion and still allow the dogs to be off of a leash. I
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don't feel that we'd be solving any problems by doing that,
because the dogs would still be off of a leash, so we're just
moving the problem from here to there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There would be -- the only
exception to that, if you allowed them in the park where they
are now under a leash, and have the other area for animals
that were unleashed only, could be an option. That's one way
to maybe try.
MS. WHITT: I feel -- my concern is public safety,
and I feel -- and I feel very strongly about this, as my
officers do. We've talked quite a bit about this. When you
have numerous dogs off of a leash, you're going to have a
bigger chance of someone getting bit or having dog fights,
things of that nature. So, how do we correct the problem?
Only way to correct the problem would be to put them
on-leash.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- you know, I'm
sympathetic to letting dogs run out in the wild. I mean, you
know, obviously, you know, those that see me, I have my dog
and she's not on a leash, but I think she is pretty much
I under my direct control. She's right next to me when she's
off. But either way, a lot of communities have dog parks
that are in a confined area, and those dogs are off a leash
and they don't seem to be a problem. I mean, I think there
-- well, you know, so there is a way to do it. The upper
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area of the park, to me, somewhat fits that, because it's --
it's fenced and there's only one access point, being a
bridge. So, the issue then is, do you want to -- do we want
to make that a -- a dog park over there, so to speak? And
I'm undecided on that, I think, really, at the moment. I do
think that it's -- you know, it clearly -- I mean, we need to
have an area of Flat Rock that dogs have to be on a leash. I
mean, the old part of the park, I don't see any way around
that. We just have too many problems on our agenda, too much
of our time, Animal Control's time, Sheriff's time, and so I
think that that area definitely needs to have, at a minimum,
leashes. The other area, I'm kind of open to discussion
still.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, and what really happens
is, you have -- just like most other things that get passed,
you have a very small number of people that are the problem,
and they make it hard on everybody else. And it's unfair for
people that do have dogs that they do have under control -- I
can guarantee you, I have mine under control too. There's no
question. I can turn mine loose with ten dogs, and she'll be
by me when I tell her to get over there. But a lot of
people -- some people just think they ought to roam, and --
and they do have to be under control, in my opinion, somehow
or another, whether it be verbal, leash, shock collar, you
know, chain, you name it. But I just -- I hate to see us cut
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out the unleashed part of it county-wide. You know, it's
kind of like discrimination, in my opinion. You let one
group do it, but the other group kind of gets the raw end of
the deal. So you -- I'd be -- I'd be in favor of looking at
it a little farther and see if we can try it for a bit
longer, an area where they're unleashed only. Anybody else
comes in there, you know, at their own risk. But I do
believe, like Jonathan, an area of the old part of the park
needs to be leashed. Too many activities down there.
MS. WHITT: That's still --
MS. ROUSSEL: Enter at your own risk. If there was
a sign, you know, like --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But you will be responsible
i
I~ if your pet bites another person.
MS. ROUSSEL: Right. Well, that -- but cities all
over the United States have dog parks, so I can't imagine
that Kerrville can't work something out, that are off-leash.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think a broader issue,
Ms. Roussel, is are we going to, at least indirectly, exclude
the public from this park because we've given permission --
MS. ROUSSEL: That would be the new one?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes, uh-huh.
MS. ROUSSEL: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause that's a public park. It's
owned by the citizens of this county. And what if you got
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people that, rather than fish there at the west Flat Rock,
they want to go over there at the east one and do some
fishing over there? Or they want to have their picnic over
there, go over there and play with their children and
whatnot. Have we, indirectly at least, excluded those people
from the park? Particularly during -- let's say in the
summertime, early in the morning, late in the evening, when
the weather's more amenable?
MR. PALMER: Just have friendly dogs over at the
other park to play with.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, the problem is, --
MS. ROUSSEL: How do we know?
JUDGE TINLEY: -- dogs are as friendly as their
owners make them, and sometimes we don't have responsible
owners. And that's --
I~ MR. PALMER: We've got unfriendly people that we
don't want our kids around, too.
MS. ROUSSEL: I say give it a chance.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, you said you
were going to have some comments on all this, did you not?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have a comment, and
it's a piggyback with your point that you were just making,
that that property is owned by all citizens, all taxpayers of
Kerr County. And if we're talking about -- if we're talking
about using any property exclusively for one issue, I vote
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I
no, every -- 100 percent of the time. It's not the right
thing to do. These other people -- I know the major park
down there, I know families -- generations of families that
have been going down there to use that park, and I will never
support any kind of move telling those families they can't
use that; it's for dogs only. No way.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I agree with that. I
mean, what I was saying is, on the other part of the park,
open it to anyone. You just -- dogs can run wild, but --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we're talking about
exclusive dog park, no. If you want -- if you want an
exclusive dog park, move to Austin. That's my point.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, now --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm talking to Letz now; I'm
not talking to these nice people.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know, but now what? Dogs
-- dog owners are taxpayers too.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, sure they are.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Try to make it fair and right
for all of us.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's hard to do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is hard to do. And
we've been dealing with this, what, three or four years?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: At least.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we -- we're right back
to where -- exactly where we started.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think the issue really is, should
our order require that dogs to be restrained under that
definition be on the leash or other physical restraint,
rather than under the so-called control, quote, unquote,
verbal command, shock collar, anything other than a physical
attachment or restrictive device such as a fence? I think
that's exactly where we are.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another possible option would
be to take that upper part of that park -- it's very large,
30 acres?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 21 acres.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 21, whatever.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 21 on the ground.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The far -- the furthest east
portion of that, you can put up a -- or you can make a dog
park. Make a small dog park, if someone was to donate the
money for the fencing. But, you know, the problem has to be
solved; I agree with Commissioner Williams and the Judge. I
mean, we cannot have dogs running, causing problems and
biting people. That can't continue. You know, that park is
one of the jewels the County has. It's the longest river
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frontage, beautiful, and it's got to be open to all the
public.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your thought is a good one
with respect to fencing a portion of the 21 acres above, if
somebody wants to step forward and -- and figure out how to
do that. I don't believe that it's the County's
responsibility to pay for that fencing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can fence off, like, you
know, 2 to 3 acres. There's plenty of area to have dogs
running free, and then it's in a controlled area, and it's
not a whole -- I mean, I'm not going to vote, I don't think,
for tax dollars to pay for that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not either.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it's a -- you know, I mean,
doesn't have to be a chain link fence. It could be a fence,
and no one -- you know, that goes down to the river; it can
get torn out by a flood. Anyway, it's just an option.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the meantime, I would
move adoption of the agenda item as proposed.
AUDIENCE: So, if --
JUDGE TINLEY: We got a motion.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'll second that
I motion.
'~, JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to
adopt the agenda item, which would require animals brought to
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Flat Rock Lake Park to be leashed at all times when in the
park, and restrict those animals to the upper portion of the
park located to the east of Third Creek. Further discussion?
Questions on the motion by any member of the Court?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see how you can
restrict anybody anywhere, but -- but I think we need to fire
a shot at this thing and see what we can get and what we
can't get, and -- on it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, by the same token, the
Court's action today would be subject to being changed next
month, next year, whenever.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whenever.
JUDGE TINLEY: I mean, that's what got us here,
I wasn't it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what got us here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we talking park rules or
dog rules?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Animal -- no, we're
enforcing the Animal Control order, Rabies and Animal Control
order of '97, I believe. Am I correct, Judge?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, we're not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Really?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because your -- your motion
says no animals at all in the lower part of Flat Rock, and
it's changing the --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With respect to leashing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but -- no, it doesn't say
that, though. It says no animals. Restrict all animals to
the upper portion. So, that means there's no animals in the
old park; means they have to be leashed in the upper park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, requiring animals
brought to Flat Rock Lake Park be leashed at all times.
That's the park in its entirety, and restricting those to the
upper portion located east of Third Creek.
MR. PALMER: Does that mean your ordinance sign is
now illegal? Which states --
JUDGE TINLEY: There's been no action taken yet,
MR. PALMER: Okay, I'm just trying to understand.
(Commissioner Baldwin left the courtroom.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The way I read the agenda item,
Mr. Emerson, would be that all animals at the park be
leashed, and that any animals on leash would be required to
be on the eastern portion of the park. Is that the way you
read the agenda item?
MR. EMERSON: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was the intent, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's the motion before the
Court. Any further question or discussion on the motion?
Where did Baldwin go?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've still got a question.
We're changing the park rule? We're not changing the county
dog ordinance rule?
MR. EMERSON: That's the way I read it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But that means you can't even
have a dog on a leash in the existing county park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, only the other section
of Flat Rock.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What I'm saying is where
they're allowed to be now, but they would be no longer
allowed even to be on a leash there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see --
JUDGE TINLEY: That's my interpretation.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see this as a problem; can't
II have a county -- a dog ordinance that's in conflict with the
park ordinance. One says --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we ought to bring it
back at a later meeting.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we got a motion and a second.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just my thought.
JUDGE TINLEY: We got a motion and a second, and we
have an absent Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What is he doing?
JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe by intention; I don't know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure I understand
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the conflict in everybody's mind.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I don't want to -- I
mean, I'm going to debate on the upper part of the park
whether you should have leash or no leash up there, and I'm
against having no dogs in the lower part of the park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would restrict dogs
from being in the lower portion of the park.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not voting for that, no.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not to put them on a leash.
Where did Baldwin go? Did he take a break?
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion
on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(Commissioner Williams voted in favor of the
motion.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(Commissioners Letz and Oehler voted against the
motion.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion fails.
MR. PALMER: So, it's the same as usual?
JUDGE TINLEY: We're back to where we were.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless there's another motion.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Before we take our break, we
have a number of folks here for our 9:45 item, so I'd like to
get to them.
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(Commissioner Baldwin returned to the courtroom.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Item 7, presentation regarding Kerr
I County 4-H program interpretation to the Commissioners Court.
Mr. Walston? Oh, Mr. Walston's not here. We have Laurinda
Boyd, the 4-H Coordinator.
MS. BOYD: How are you?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back to square one.
MS. BOYD: Face the court. Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: I want to know how many of these
young people complained when Ms. Boyd said, "I want you to
come up and stand before the Commissioners Court this
morning."
MS. BOYD: Not a one of them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not a one? Wait a minute. I wanted
their answer, not yours. (Laughter.)
MS. BOYD: Well, not a one of them, actually.
They're -- they're good campers. So, we just wanted to come
and do an interpretation to the Court to tell you what we've
been doing in June and July. We had a really busy first week
in June with our state 4-H Roundup. We took 13 kiddoes to
Texas A & M for State Breaks Roundup, and we had a great
week, actually. Really great week. Our wool team, which
Mr. Chase Lantz and Amanda Weaver and Jackie Nentwich -- and
Jackie is at camp this week. They placed first at state in
wool judging. Amanda was first high individual. Amanda,
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MS. BOYD: You were first?
MR. LANTZ: Third at state.
MS. BOYD: You were third at state, Amanda was
second at state, and first high individual. And then, we
went the next following week to Sonora for the national wool
contest, and they were national winners again. This is, I
believe, the eighth time Kerr County's had a national -- won
nationals. And at nationals, Amanda was first high
individual, and Chase was second high individual, so we're
really, really proud of them, and they did an awesome job.
At state, also, our mohair -- we had two mohair individuals,
Thomas Frizzell competed and Katelyn Mitchell. Katelyn was
third high individual. Our plant ID team, we have two lovely
ladies on the end down there, Rachel Taylor and Adair White,
and Colton French and Daniel Haverlah, who were not able to
be here, and they were third place at state, and Daniel had
fifth high individual. And then we had -- first time we had
a senior compete for swine skill-a-thou, and Jake Behrens was
first -- won first place in swine skill-a-thon. They compete
all as individuals, and so Jake was first high, and we are
very proud of him. That -- that is a really deep, hard
contest. They have to answer a lot of really intense
questions, and he did a great job on that.
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We also had a livestock team compete this year,
and it's the first time in -- well, let's see, I've been here
16 years -- that we've had a team go to state as livestock,
and they did a great job. They were -- out of 100 teams,
they were 22nd, and that was Katie Muehlstein, Ethan
Muehlstein, and Jake Behrens, and they really did great in
the long-day judging. So, we were also very proud of the
fact that Katie Muehlstein, our -- one of our graduates this
year, she received a $15,000 scholarship from the 4-H
Foundation from Houston Livestock Show, and then also a
$1,000 scholarship from the Texas Education Association group
also, so $16,000 in scholarships. We were very proud of her.
The -- the last week in June, we went to District 10
leadership lab. We had 12 attend that, and Nick Randall was
elected first vice president of our district council, and he
will serve on state 4-H Council. This is the fourth year in
a row that Kerr County has had a state 4-H Council
representative, so we're very proud of that. And then the
very last week, we went to the state 4-H Mission Possible
camp back at the 4-H Center, and that is a disabilities camp
that we do for the -- statewide, and five of our kiddoes went
as mentors, and they really did a great job.
JUDGE TINLEY: Who are those children that went?
Do you recall offhand, Ms. Boyd?
~ MS. BOYD: Yeah. For the mentors, it was Adair and
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Amanda and Ethan Muehlstein, Katie Muehlstein. And who did I
I miss?
MS. WEAVER: Gideon.
MS. BOYD: Oh, Gideon. Gideon Lucke, and they
worked for three days with the kids with disabilities and
diversity. It's a really awesome camp to participate in.
And then Friday we had our fishing derby that we've been
doing 20-something-odd years down at the park, and we had 86
kids from local day care centers there, and 26 -- I know, it
was wild. And 26 of our 4-H kids. And what they do is they
pair up with all the day care kids; they go out and catch
these little, bitty old fish, and all compete for prizes, the
largest fish, the smallest fish, the most unusual fish.
Actually, there's crawfish down there. Did you know that?
We had a big sucker. It was big. It won the most unusual
fish. And so, anyway, but they have a great time, and it
exposes them to the outdoors, and our kids get to spend
one-on-one time with, you know, kiddoes, and it's just really
a neat experience, and we had a great time. So, in two
weeks, we'll be doing our 4-H mini-camp out at the Ag Barn.
We have about 80 day care kids coming from Y.M.C.A. and
A Child's Place. And what the kids will be doing that week
from 9:00 to noon every day is, we'll be doing different --
our them is "Go Green" this year, recycling, and they'll be
doing different activities, working with the kids hands-on
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and mentoring and counseling with them and doing fun things.
So, we appreciate y'all's time, and do y'all have any
questions of the kids?
JUDGE TINLEY: Did I ever get an answer to my first
question? (Laughter.) They don't dare tell me anything --
MS. BOYD: No.
', JUDGE TINLEY: -- contrary to what you've said.
MS. BOYD: Honestly, did any of y'all complain?
MR. LANTZ: I got half a day off work; I wasn't
going to complain. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Now we're looking at motivation.
MS. BOYD: We've been traveling so much, they've
all been getting up early, so we're all kind of road weary.
So, anyway -- but we've had a great summer, and the kids are
just awesome.
JUDGE TINLEY: This -- I made -- I didn't want to
steal your thunder, but I made mention of the news reports on
all of the honors these kids have been taking in this 4-H
program.
MS. BOYD: Yeah. And, actually, our shooting
sports group, we have a young lady that's competing in Italy
right now because of her shooting sports accomplishments, and
then we -- actually, we had a huge trap and skeet shoot, our
state shoot that we host the first weekend, and we had about
500, 600 people out there. We had 150 shooters, and that was
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a great weekend also. And we're fixing to have our -- we've
got about 25 kids that are going to state next week to shoot
at San Antonio at the range down there. We'll have air
pistol, air rifle, .22, archery, and trap and skeet
represented down there for our state shoot, so that's great,
our shooting sports program.
JUDGE TINLEY: Locally, we have one of the premier
shooting sports teams.
MS. BOYD: Yes, sir, we do.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not only in the state, but in the
country.
MS. BOYD: Yes. We are very fortunate; we have a
wonderful classroom out at the shooting sports range that's
4-H provided that we do lots of great stuff out there, so
we're very excited about our shooting sports program. It is
the -- I tell you what, it is just booming. And we're
actually -- we just got a -- recently got a grant from the
Mounted Peace Officers Association to help us start building
silhouettes and different things so that we can host some air
rifle, air pistol competitions, and we're working on some
matching -- matching grants on that, some N.R.A. grants.
We'll be turning in a really big N.R.A. grant in November for
some other new items and things we need for our shooting
sports program. So, we're rocking and rolling. It's an
exciting time. Y'all, get excited. Come on. (Laughter.)
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You hear that? The order
is, "Be excited."
MS. BOYD: Okay. Thank y'all for your time. We
appreciate it.
(Applause.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, that'll be a good note to take
on. We'll be in recess for about 15 minutes.
(Recess taken from 10:40 a.m. to 10:55 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's come back to order, if
I' we might. We have some 10 o'clock items that got way out in
-- we got way out in front of those. We'll go to Item 8.
(The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed
at 10:55 a.m., and a public hearing was held in
open court, as follows:)
P U B L I C H E A R I N G
JUDGE TINLEY: At this time, I will recess the
Commissioners Court meeting and convene a public hearing for
revision of plat for Headwaters Ranch, Phase III, as set
forth in Volume 8, Page 92, Plat Records, and located in
Precinct 4. Is there any member of the public that wishes to
be heard with regard to the revision of the plat for
j Headwaters Ranch, Phase III, as set forth in Volume 8, Page
92 of the Plat Records? Seeing no one coming forward, I will
close the public hearing for the revision of plat for
Headwaters Ranch, Phase III.
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(The public hearing was concluded at 10:55 a.m.,
and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was
reopened.)
JUDGE TINLEY: And I will reconvene the
Commissioners Court meeting, and we will go to Item 9, which
is a presentation by Rose Jackson, AACOG Housing Manager,
regarding Weatherization Assistance Program's increased level
of activity as a result of funding from the American Recovery
and Reinvestment Act over the next two years. Commissioner
Williams, would you like to introduce this item?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would, Judge, and I want
to tell the Court and the people in attendance, this will not
be as contentious an issue as the one we just passed.
(Laughter.) It's my pleasure to ask Rose to come to the
podium. Rose Jackson heads up the Weatherization Program for
AACOG, and has done an absolutely fantastic job over the
years that she's had that position. And she is blessed, I
think, or perhaps cursed with a -- with a huge pot of gold
that's coming her way with respect to the Weatherization
Program, so when AACOG approved her -- some of her
initiatives so she could move forward and do these things, I
asked Rose if she'd be good enough to come to the Court and
tell us exactly what the program's all about and how it might
benefit those in Kerr County who could use those services.
So it's my pleasure to introduce to the Court Ms. Rose
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MS. JACKSON: Good morning. Thank you,
Commissioner Williams, and I'd like to thank Judge Tinley and
the members of the Commissioners Court here. Thank you so
much for the extension of the invitation to come here to
speak to you today. I'm going to try to keep it real short,
'cause I know you have a lot of business. We have at AACOG
for over 27 years been conducting a national Weatherization
Assistance Program, so currently we're -- some of the year,
we have been weatherizing homes, and its in the 12-county
region which makes up AACOG. AACOG, if you can imagine, is
Bexar County in the middle like a little doughnut, at the
center of the doughnut, and then all around are the 11 rural
counties. Those 12 counties put together make up AACOG. So,
the Weatherization Assistance Programs idea has been to go
out and try to help people save on their energy bills, and
everybody knows that the energy bills right now are very
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high. In San Antonio, we've been breaking records, over
104 degrees; we've been averaging 102 degrees, so everybody's
i utility bills right now, it is -- is at the highest. I'm
', sure it's the same here in Kerr County and Kerrville.
So, weatherization, it's free. We actually -- it
is based on -- on the income. The income eligibility levels
III right now is at 125 percent of the median average for -- say
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a family size of two right now, if you gross $18,213, then
you are eligible for the Weatherization Assistance Program.
That sounds awfully low, but I have good news, because come
August the 1st, through this A.R.R.A. project, it is going to
go up to 200 percent. So, a family size of two could --
gross income would be $29,140. So, as you can see, it's --
the idea is to try to get out to as many houses, apartment
complexes, mobile homes, so that AACOG has $14 million just
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strictly out of the stimulus funds for Weatherization
Assistance Program. In addition to that, we have another
three to four million dollars. Now, when you put it all
together, it's about 17 to 18 million dollars that AACOG has
available to spend within a two-year period, and the clock
starts August the 1st.
So, again, what we need is a lot of help from
people such as yourselves, people in the audience. I just
spoke to somebody who's one of your newspaper people, and I
spoke to Jessica here, who's also with the builders
association. So, we're going to need to partner and work
together, because the idea is, we have the funds, we have the
contractors, we have the inspectors. We provide the
installation of free attic insulation, wall insulation, all
EnergyStar appliances, refrigerators, gas stoves, water
heaters, central systems, including duct work, and all of
this is free. Windows and doors. And we -- we desperately
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need to try to make sure that we spend as much as we can as
evenly as we can throughout the 12-county area. So, with
that, I did want to mention, even if you have somebody that
you think is not eligible for the program, if they receive --
if anybody in the household receives S.S.I. or T.A.N.F.,
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'~i Texas Aid to Needy Families, they automatically qualify. We
had a lady that -- in -- in San Antonio that lives in the --
I don't know if anybody's familiar with the Terrell Hills,
Olmos Park area, but you would think that they obviously
wouldn't qualify. Well, on the surface, that's correct, but
because somebody in the household was actually receiving
S.S.I., they automatically qualified.
So, this program is -- is really geared towards the
low income, the people that are elderly, the disabled. And
the installation of the materials that we conduct through
professional contractors, it has -- it carries a one-year
warranty on the labor and parts, so I think it's something
that everybody should try to avail themselves of. And,
again, I'm keeping it very short, because I can -- really,
Judge, I'm already promoting it; I'm sorry. Commissioner
Williams knows I can really talk a lot about my program.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Jackson, you mentioned that
there -- there was going to be an effort made to try and
distribute these funds reasonably equally among the AACOG
region. Based upon that, what's the estimated available
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expenditure for Kerr County, if you calculated that?
MS. JACKSON: Well, since it is on a first-come,
first-served type basis, I can tell you right now, we have
already encumbered starting come August the 1st in Kerr
County, there are roughly 89 households that we already have
energy audits that we are going to be weatherizing. We're
just waiting for the funds to come in August the 1st. So,
I'm -- I guess in terms of what we would like to do, I can't
really tell you, but we really want to be as fair and
impartial as possible. It is on a first-come, first-served
basis. We do have the applications; I have some applications
for everybody here. Please, you know, make additional copies
of that for your constituents. And we also have the -- the
application on the AACOG web site, so that can be downloaded
and copied. So, we're looking to do about 2,000 households
in two years, 1,000 a year, and throughout the 12-county
region, and I would say if you were going to ask me, Judge,
again, how much, I would venture to say that we're looking to
at least do about -- of those 1,000, at least 15 to
20 percent. Kerr is one of our biggest counties that we
actually do weatherization.
JUDGE TINLEY: But you already have 80-plus
weatherization audit applications?
MS. JACKSON: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: From Kerr County?
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MS. JACKSON: Yes, sir, already.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sitting on your desk now?
MS. JACKSON: Sitting on my desk. We're just
waiting on the funds so we can send out the contractors.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good to hear.
MS. JACKSON: But we'd like more.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll see if we can help you.
MS. JACKSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the best way for us
to try to generate those applications for you? Your
experience in other counties, how does this work?
MS. JACKSON: Well, the experience in other
counties is we'll be more than happy to come back, whether it
be, say, you know, in your precinct, sir, if you'd like for
us to come out to your precinct, and you sponsor a workshop
and you want us to come out with the applications.
Commissioner Williams, same thing, or parishes, churches,
what-have-you. That's what we're doing in some of the other
counties in Atascosa and Frio; we've actually gone out, and
Commissioners or the Judges have actually sponsored a
workshop that's open to the public, sponsored by them. We
come in and we actually sign up people. I think in Pearsall
in Frio County, we had over 89 people sign up. So, we'd like
to do a similar thing here in Kerrville. So, just -- that
would be one of the -- one of the best ways to get the
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information out.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. JACKSON: And, again, just -- don't worry about
bugging me at the office. I'll be more than happy --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I know how to find you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's good, 'cause I'll need
I to know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And we need to ask our
friends at the press to give this some publicity too, because
this is important. It's an opportunity for folks to upgrade
their domicile that are unable to do so under any other
circumstances.
MS. JACKSON: And we do about an average of $7,000
to $9,000 of free installation services, so it's a good
program.
JUDGE TINLEY: Per unit? Per household?
MS. JACKSON: Yes, sir. That's what we're
averaging right now.
JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty nice chunk of money.
MS. JACKSON: Yeah, it sure is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you very much. We appreciate
you being here.
MS. JACKSON: Thank you so much. And if I may, I'd
like to leave some packets here, some additional packets for
people. Thank you so much.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Rose. Thanks
for making the trip down.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to our 10:30 items.
We're catching up a little bit. First one is Item 14;
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on request
from the Grand Commandery of Texas Knights Templar for
reduced rate for the parking lot at Hill Country Youth
Exhibit Center. Mr. Dock Dixon, Jr.
MR. DIXON: Thank you, Your Honor, members of the
Commissioners Court. My name is Dock Franklin Dixon, Jr.
I'm the Grand Commander of the -- the Grand Commander,
Knights Templar in Texas, and we're proposing -- or we're
going to have our annual conclave here in Kerrville at the
Inn of the Hills in April of 2010, the 16th through 19th,
more exactly. We do several things at our conclave, one of
which, we have drill teams that need places to drill, and we
would like to have had an indoor place, but since there are
no places indoors large enough, we selected the east side
of -- the east parking lot at the Ag Barn as a place to
drill. Now, our drill captain informs me that we need
approximately 100 by 200, and I have stepped that off, and
it's approximately 180 by -- into infinity, practically. And
we'll have approximately 500 people at our -- at our
conclave, and hopefully they'll be spending money in
I Kerrville.
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As far as I can determine, this -- Kerrville will
be the smallest city that this conclave has ever been held
in. Last year it was held in Waco. The year before, it was
held in -- just north of Dallas, and the big cities usually
get this. But the Grand Commander gets to call the shots,
and since I am he this year, we decided to come to Kerrville.
I lived approximately 32 years in Comfort. I'm a retired Air
Force officer, and last year we moved out of the frying pan
into the fire; we moved to Bandera. (Laughter.) And I'm an
aspiring golfer, so you can imagine where we live. And to
talk about the precipitation, if we would like to for a
moment, I've had exactly 7 inches of rain at my house from
July to July. The grass is looking -- (thumbs-down gesture.)
But, anyway, I would like to -- to ask the County Judge and
the Commissioners Court if they would waive the fee for us at
the -- at the parking lot, or at least reduce that fee. We
would certainly appreciate it.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're going to be operating on the
asphalt area? Or out in the --
MR. DIXON: Asphalt area.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, the asphalt area in front
of -- I assume in front of the buildings there?
MR. DIXON: No, to the east side of the building.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the east side, Judge.
25 ~ JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not going to use the
facilities, just the outside is all you're using, right?
MR. DIXON: Yes, sir. Of course, we will have a
number of people there, and we would like to use the restroom
facilities if they're available in the facility. And on
Friday evening, our people will be coming in Friday evening,
and the drill teams will get together and they would like to
practice on Friday evening. I notice there are some lights
on the -- on the east side of the building, but the drill
competition will start at 7 o'clock on Saturday morning and
last till approximately noon. And this will be open to the
public, and I certainly invite them out, because they will
see a spectacle. They -- these guys really know what they're
doing. They will be in full Templar dress, and it will be
exciting to many people.
JUDGE TINLEY: And when's this going to occur, sir?
MR. DIXON: This will be the 17th -- the afternoon
and early evening of the 16th of April, through -- and the
drill competition will be on Saturday morning, the 17th of
April, 2010.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much do we charge to use
our parking lot?
MR. DIXON: I was quoted a figure between $450 and
$500.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that sounds about right.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but I don't think you
can go over there. I don't think I can.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The soles of the shoes of
your guys might get a little messy.
MR. DIXON: Yeah.
MS. GRINSTEAD: Well, that included also -- because
the first time we talked, he needed to have it cleaned and
swept, the entire parking lot they're going to be using. So,
Road and Bridge would have to come over. We talked to Kelly;
she said that they would be able to. But then I think since
then, you didn't --
MR. DIXON: Since then, our drill captain informed
me that we need at least 100 feet. Most of the loose gravel
is along the periphery, the sides of the parking lot, so I
don't think we would need to do that.
MS. GRINSTEAD: And bleachers.
MR. DIXON: We would request some bleachers -- a
set of bleachers for the guests to have a seat while they're
watching the drill team, and some cones -- traffic cones to
mark off the drill area.
JUDGE TINLEY: Got any thoughts, Tim?
MR. BOLLIER: About the only labor that we'd have
in it is just moving the bleachers out there for them and
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putting some cones, so I have no big problem with it.
Whatever y'all decide. I mean, 'cause it's just -- you know,
moving those bleachers over there ain't going to take ten
minutes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's our -- our rate for
using the parking lot?
MS. GRINSTEAD: $200.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: $200? And the other -- the
other amount between the $200 and the $400?
MR. DIXON: I was quoted $450 to $500.
MR. BOLLIER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That other part came from
I rentals?
MR. BOLLIER: We were going to have to sweep it.
We thought we were going to have to sweep it and so forth.
So, you know --
MR. DIXON: I thought this was before we talked
about sweeping. But, anyway --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I mean, I think there's
some time involved. I mean, I don't know. I think these
things are always so -- such a bad --
MR. DIXON: We are a 503(c)(10) organization.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is a one time only
event?
MR. DIXON: This is a one time only event, yes,
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sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: They're not going to reelect you as
the -- as the top banana so that you can bring them back?
MR. DIXON: We have a thing in Masonry, for those
that may be Masons; you get one shot. So, if you get -- if
you get a bad one, you're rid of him in a year. (Laughter.)
If you get a good one, you're also rid of him in a year. So,
for those that may be interested, the grand -- the line of
officers for the Grand Master, Knights Templar of Texas, is a
ten-year line.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord.
MR. DIXON: I started in April of 2000, and now
I'm -- ten years later, I'm Grand Commander.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sounds like county
government.
MR. DIXON: It goes on and on.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is $200 reasonable?
MR. DIXON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I make a motion we set the fee
at $200.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Further question or discussion on the motion?
All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
hand.
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(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, sir.
MR. DIXON: Thank you, sir. I thank the Court for
their consideration.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 15, another 10:30
item. Consider, discuss, take appropriate action to declare
as surplus a list of information technology equipment.
Mr. Trolinger, you're bringing your laptop forward; I hope
that's not one of the items that you're proposing to declare
surplus.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir, I have a 24-page list on
~ my laptop.
JUDGE TINLEY: Question. Have -- has there been
any notification that's gone out to local government and
nonprofits giving them an opportunity to see if they have a
need for this particular equipment that you're proposing to
dispose of as surplus?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, for the Adult Probation
equipment, which is not on this list; I believe it's kept
separately. I don't know how -- it's not on this list yet.
There was notification, and that equipment's actually
going -- has already been disposed of at the Salvation Army.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So as to the other that
you're going to propose be disposed of as surplus under
authorization from the Court, then others have been given a
shot at it if they're local government or nonprofits?
MR. TROLINGER: The process for the equipment is --
is that initially, it goes out for auction, even if it's
junk, non-working. If it does not pass the auction -- if it
does not sell at auction, then it would go to recycle, and
typically at recycle, Lion's Club is present to look at the
III equipment that comes in, and they'll -- they'll be able to
acquire it at that point.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, do you need some more
equipment over there?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably half of what he's got
came from over there.
MR. TROLINGER: About half of what -- yes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But I don't know what all he
has on 24 pages, but normally it has to be declared first,
and then everybody can kind of look and -- you know,
different county offices go through it, see if any of us need
it. He's doing the I.T. for all the county offices, so I
doubt if it's needed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's -- I mean, there's a
lot. I'm just looking through; there's a lot of Dell
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Dimension 2400's.
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MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of these work? I mean,
they're working computers?
MR. TROLINGER: No, most do not work, and all have
had hard drives removed. So, even those -- even those that
were working don't have a hard drive. When it goes out for
auction, we don't want any data going outside the county or
government buildings, so no hard drives.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we declare the list --
the items on the list as surplus.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does pass. Thank you,
Mr. Trolinger. Let's kind of go back to clean up. Let's go
to Item 5; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on
engagement letter on FY 2009 audit by Neffendorf Doss and
Company, certified public accountants. I was under the
impression that this had already been approved, but maybe I'm
mistaken.
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MS. HARGIS: We had a two-year -- two-year contract
with them. This would be their third year.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the contract
renewal, and the fee is $30,000?
MS. HARGIS: That's right. That's the same as it
has been the last two years.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that -- how is that
compared to this year's --
MS. HARGIS: The same.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
good job. I appreciate them, and I like their -- what
they've done. I like the -- forget the gentleman's name that
comes down here and talks, but he's great.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's because you
blockheads use the same language. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Speaking the same language.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's the only guy that's
been in here Letz can communicate with.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further discussion on that
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motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. We'll move to
Item 6; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
approve one-year contract for investment advisory services
with Patterson and Associates.
MS. HARGIS: We -- Rex and I have been working on
this kind of back and forth, so it's taken us about three or
four months to get it the way we want it, but the document
does reflect what the County Attorney requested. So, I
request that y'all approve it. It's going to be up for
renewal again in October.
JUDGE TINLEY: Question.
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm?
JUDGE TINLEY: Did this outfit earn its keep?
MS. HARGIS: Yes, I think they have.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: They've been able to teach us a lot
and put us on the right step, especially during this bad
economy.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As I calculate, our fee is in
the neighborhood of $2,500 annually; is that right?
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II MS. HARGIS: Right. We haven't paid them that much
this year, actually, I don't believe. She kind of -- she
makes sure that she does something for her service before she
bills us. So, I think we maybe paid her $500 so far this
year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. We'll move to
Item -- I've been advised Item 10 -- that that item is to be
pulled from the agenda.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that correct, Mr. Odom?
MR. ODOM: That's correct, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Very well. We'll move to Item 11;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action to buy an RBU-121
Caterpillar 420D backhoe.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. And in 2004, we took a
five-year lease on a Caterpillar 420D backhoe. The lease is
up in July of the year 2009. We would like to purchase this
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backhoe. The payoff of this equipment is 21,000. We
provided with the agenda item pictures of this backhoe. It's
in great condition. It only has a thousand and -- 1,086
hours on it, which makes it a great investment for Road and
Bridge after five years. This backhoe is used on a -- a
daily basis, but basically it's used for rock hammering.
That is what it was intended for. The newer backhoes that we
have have this swivel, so it's not functional to have this
impact on -- on these two backhoes that we have leased out.
Without this piece of equipment, we will not have a backhoe
that the rock hammer can be installed on, so we're asking the
Court at this time to allow us to pay off and purchase
RBU121, and to take that money out of Line Item 15-611-553.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that your budget?
MR. ODOM: That's my budget.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
JUDGE TINLEY: You guys have been maintaining that
piece of equipment since we've had it?
MR. ODOM: Since five years, yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. ODOM: We do all analysis, the whole thing,
every 200 hours and 100 hours, and send it in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the line item? I know
the number. What's --
MR. ODOM: It's contract fees. I believe you'll
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21,000?
MR. ODOM: 21,000.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 21,786, I believe.
MR. ODOM: It will not hurt us to make this work.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I move approval.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Did you have an afterthought,
I Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I actually had a thought.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which was kind of scary.
You said that it was 21,000 --
MR. ODOM: 21,000.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and 786?
MR. ODOM: 786?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I had on my deal.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. ODOM: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If I were God for the day, I
would want that actual number put in the -- in the court
order.
MR. ODOM: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not God.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The purchase price is 21,000,
the way it appears, and then the rental price for the July
month was 786.
MR. ODOM: 786 is my rental.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Twenty-one is the actual --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see that now.
MS. HOFFER: We paid that 700 already. Because,
actually, it was due July 1st, so we paid the 700.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go.
MR. ODOM: I think that's where the 21,000 is
coming from.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 21,000.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much.
MS. HOFFER: I called Caterpillar. They said they
would allow us the two weeks to see if we could get this
approved and purchase it.
MR. ODOM: So, it should be 21,000, the way we got
it.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. ODOM: This really is a good buy. You can see
that there's no way that I could rent one, if I went out now
for lease, for $786. There is no way.
JUDGE TINLEY: If you went out on the open market
to buy a piece of used equipment of that type with those
components, with that number of hours on it, what would you
be paying for it?
MR. ODOM: About 70,000.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 12; consider,
discuss, take appropriate action to install four no-parking
signs at Brinks Crossing on Center Point River Road in
Precinct 2, and also install four no-parking signs at
Waltonia Crossing on Kelly Creek Road located in Precinct 4.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We've recently had two
complaints, one from Precinct 2, and Precinct 4, from their
constituents about being able to traverse those narrow
crossings at Brinks and Waltonia. We were asked to take a
look at it and see what was feasible to try to curtail some
of this parking. It is so restrictive, you can barely get
across these narrow crossings safely. So, our suggestion
is -- is that we place two signs on each side. And I gave
you those distances at each place from the center line of the
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Court's approval to install four no-parking signs at Brinks
Crossing on Center Point River Road and install four
no-parking signs at Waltonia Crossing on Kelly Creek Road.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Len, let me ask you a
question. You believe that just the "no parking" will
correct the situation that occurs from time to time where
people stop in the middle of the low-water crossing and
unload their picnic stuff and whatever else they unload? Do
you think this will correct that, or do you think we need
another sign that says "No stopping on the bridge" or
something like that?
MR. ODOM: Well, I guess we could. I don't know,
by the manual, if there's anything regulatory in that way.
So, there's no -- this is a regulatory sign. Well, there's a
state statute that's open, no swimming, fishing, or anything
else. The more signs you put, Commissioner, then the less
attention they pay to it. And if there are no parking --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be the case.
MR. ODOM: I'd just say that that gives the
Sheriff's -- I'm not a lawyer, but I would assume that would
give them authority, by an act of the Court, to enforce that
if they needed to enforce it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can also put signs that
says, "Beware, signs ahead." (Laughter.) Kind of thing.
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I'm -- I'm concerned about that we're telling -- what we're
~' doing is telling people, "Don't get in the river. Don't
drive to Kerrville and spend all your money and get in the
MR. ODOM: Well, we have looked at Brinks Crossing;
there's other areas for them to go to if property owners
would give us that availability. Commissioner Williams and I
have looked at that. May be some parking back off Brinks
Crossing there, but we haven't been able to address that.
We're not opposed to people parking, but it is so bad the way
the angle parking is, they're almost -- they're cutting the
approaches off to those narrow crossings. I mean, you can --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get off the road too in some
of those places, and get out of the right-of-way, especially
at Waltonia. There's a place on the -- on the 39 side that,
you know, they're -- the parking is so bad that they actually
don't park on the roadway. That's what we're trying to get
them to do, is stop parking on the roadway.
MR. ODOM: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the -- I'm looking at the
footages that you have, and it's quite a ways from -- I mean,
from the center of the bridge where you measure.
MR. ODOM: Mm-hmm.
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MR. ODOM: That is correct, they point toward each
other.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It seems -- I mean, it's just
looking at 400 and --
MR. ODOM: You're around 700 feet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 700-foot area right there, some
people have to park further away, and at Brinks Crossing,
doesn't that put that parking right on the corner?
MR. ODOM: They have to come back up on top on the
west side, yes, sir. There's an entrance up there. They're
on the west side back up on top, not coming down that hill.
Remember, if you have traffic coming from 173 or Wharton
Road, you're going to hit this coming down that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's what I'm saying.
MR. ODOM: Here they are right there. On the other
side, I stopped that sign that had some possibilities of
parking if we were given permission to open up some area to
the right and left right there, is the way we looked at
Brinks Crossing. When I get to Waltonia, that is so
dangerous if you're -- you know, you're right at the highway
there, and I'm trying to get up around the corner on the
other side. You -- you can't see that they're blocked, just
like you can't see it when you make that turn coming down
Kelly Creek to the right, the tail end's hanging out.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just trying to keep somebody
from getting hurt.
MR. ODOM: We're not trying to stop them from
swimming or going down there. That's not the purpose.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Same with Brinks.
MR. ODOM: It's health, safety, and welfare.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand the reason. I
know that Brinks is dangerous. I'm just seeing how this is
-- I mean, putting rules that people aren't going to follow,
I'm always worried about. And you're putting those no
parking signs on the south side of the river -- or north side
of the river, rather, at Brinks. Up -- there's people going
to have to walk 400 feet to get to the river, and I don't
know if people are going to do that. Is there a way they we
could let them park on one side only?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At Brinks?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The problem at Brinks in
terms of parking is, if you're going west, to your right
there is no parking.
MR. ODOM: There is no parking.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you're coming east to
Brinks Crossing, if you made the curve and come down on the
crossing, you may recall that several years ago -- oh, about
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probably eight or nine years ago, we did some concrete work
there to kind of work against the erosion.
MR. ODOM: Erosion.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There was erosion in that
area, so we cemented that in, never giving any thought to
what it might have done over the long haul for parking, and
so that eliminated some parking. It just goes like this, and
you can't park there. And you're going up that little curved
embankment to a rock plateau on top, somebody's private
property, and so, you know, we -- whatever parking might have
been there before we did that is not there, and so it doesn't
do any good to go in and try to cut that out. Too expensive
to do that. So, the whole issue is people coming down that
curve going east, stopping in the middle of -- stopping in
the middle of the crossing to unload, and/or parking way out
and blocking traffic. I've had numerous calls about it. I'm
sure you have on your end too, people coming out of the
woods, coming out of the homestead, coming out of Comanche
who come across that way, going either to the airport or
going to San Antonio, and they -- they can't get across the
crossing because of people blocking it.
MR. ODOM: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the issue.
MR. ODOM: And that concrete area that we were
talking about, I took my pickup and turned it at an angle
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parking to see if I could -- if that was feasible. Even that
little short-bed truck of mine was sticking out in the
roadway, so you can imagine -- you know, if -- that's
comparable to a car. And the only other way -- that was
concreted back with FEMA funds at the time that we had to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: After 2002, I think.
MR. ODOM: I think it was either 'Ol or '02,
probably '02. Well, it had to be '02, because we got FEMA
funds.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
MR. ODOM: That was part of the plan to stabilize
that right there and keep it from washing out.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you had a comment?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the only -- only comment
I have as far as them sticking out on the road, I don't think
you need any signs to control that. We can control that as
them being a traffic hazard, and either we have it towed or
issue citations for that. But the no parking on the bridge,
I don't see them parking on the bridge. I see them doing
just what Commissioner Williams said; they're stopping on the
bridge unloading. There is a difference when it comes to
writing a citation or having someone towed. Are you parked
on the bridge or are you stopping on the bridge? And when
they're -- like Commissioner Letz said, they have to walk,
you know, 400, 500 feet with all their stuff and little kids,
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they're not going to do that. I don't know, because of how
they have to park, how you're going to keep them from
stopping on that bridge. I don't know what we do with that.
This year seems to be worse at all the crossings than any
year I've seen in the past.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Who owns the -- this is just --
who owns the property to the east side of the river? Is that
Martin Marietta?
MR. ODOM: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On the east side of the
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll call it the Highway 27
side of the river. Who owns --
MS. HOFFER: Colvin.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Colvin owns part of it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, and Ken Whitewood
owns part of it. Colvin. Colvin owns on the left side if
you're coming east. Ken Whitewood owns that area that --
where I was talking about, the rock plateau; he still owns
that piece.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you get a little
further, it's Martin Marietta.
MR. ODOM: We were hoping that we could have an
area to the right coming back, going to the east, back up on
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top there. And that's Whiting or Whitewood or --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I take it -- I said Ken
Whitewood, but it's been sold to a guy who lives in Corpus
Christi. It was sold.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It just -- I mean, it just
seems to me, I mean, obviously, it's a problem we need to
fix, but I just don't see people parking 400 feet up on that
plateau area and walking down. I think it's just going to --
you're going to have as dangerous a situation, to me, having
people walking up and down that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can bus them, with AACOG.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put in no-parking signs.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we ought to
encourage people to park on that rock plateau. It's not our
property; it's private property. They do it, but we can't
encourage it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- and on the Colvin side
of the property, that's relatively -- I mean --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't get anything parked
on there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, not really.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All loose gravel and grown
up.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also, it's part of his
proposed -- proposal, that area.
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MR. ODOM: Do you want to cut down the distance?
You don't want to put the signs up? You know, it's up to
whatever the Court directs me to do.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do we want to study this further,
MR. ODOM: I can solve the problem as it is right
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we solved the problem, if
people follow the law. And I -- and not only -- I don't
think people are going to do that. Going to -- I mean, the
Sheriff writing a bunch of tickets, you know, I don't think
it solves the problem. I think if people follow the law, it
might solve it, but I just don't see people parking 450 feet
away from the river.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: In any case, that's not the
case.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, I'm going to support
Mr. Oehler, whatever he wants to do. That's what I'm -- the
reason I'm here.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay. I'm sure glad you're
behind me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I'm behind you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not walking out again, are
you?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not yet, but you better
~ hurry.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You can try, but I don't think
it's going to help. You can try doing it.
MR. ODOM: Want to ponder it a little bit?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do it. You can do it,
see if it works.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to have signs
disappear, I'm telling you that.
MR. ODOM: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But let's do it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the item
as proposed by Mr. Odom.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's go to Item
13; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve
the final revision of plat for Headwaters Ranch, Phase III,
release the letter of credit for Phases I, II, and III, And
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accept the maintenance bond for one year for Phases I, II,
and III, all located in Precinct 4. Kind of rolled a whole
bunch of stuff together, didn't you?
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Well, I've been told -- I
want to make it simpler, so I guess my explanation wasn't as
simple as what I'm trying to do. What we're trying -- what
has happened before is that we have had a revision in Phase
III, and this is to finalize this revision of Phase III, and
at the same time, release the letter of credit for $508,446
for all three phases and accept the maintenance bond for
$152,533.80 for one year, which is under their maintenance
for Phases I, II, and III of Headwaters Ranch.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you,
gentlemen. Let's move to Item 16; consider, discuss, take
appropriate action regarding the 2010 Kerr Central Appraisal
District operating budget. I put this on the agenda. As I'm
sure the Court is aware, once formal action is taken by the
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Appraisal District, this Court only has 30 days to
essentially disapprove if they -- if they don't wish to
approve it, as one of the stakeholder entities. If -- if
you've got no problem with it, why, we can do nothing, and
it'll become effective on its own after the expiration of 30
days, unless the stakeholder entities, a sufficient number of
them, disapprove it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we never had the
sufficient number to really do anything about it. But what
is the salary increase they're requesting for salary
increases?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're requesting 3 percent.
JUDGE TINLEY: Three percent.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: After their -- what was it
last year and year before?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the year before and the
year before. I oppose it; I can assure you of that. Doesn't
do us any why good without some of the others, but at least
-- I don't believe we're going to be able to give an increase
like that to our employees.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What did they give last year?
Does anyone remember?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it was somewhere in
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Seven or 7 and a half.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what you said, Judge,
is if we do nothing, then that's tacit approval, right?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, if --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's right.
JUDGE TINLEY: If you don't -- you don't have to
take formal action to approve. Only -- if you want to take
any formal action, it's to disapprove, because doing nothing
is essentially indirect approval.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things I find -- I
see as interesting on here is the -- their fund 5150, Board
of Directors. They have a $3,000 increase there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 500 percent?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Let me go down to my --
hold on, I'll get there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which item is that,
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 5150. I'm trying to get to the
backup. I want to see what the... It's board member
education -- or board of directors education.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, my thoughts on this
are, you know, if we're -- if we're just looking at the
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salary increase they're giving, and if it's just -- if it's
3 percent, I couldn't vote against that, because I hope I get
the opportunity to vote for 3 percent for our employees. And
I couldn't vote against them and then vote our 3 percent in.
I mean, that doesn't make sense. Of course, we're not in the
i
business of making sense.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We are in the business of
making sense, and by golly, I'm not going to support it,
after the pay increases -- you know how I feel about it from
the last two years.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I do. Three percent
is probably going to be the number.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's just where we differ.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fine. That's fine.
Anybody can stand up here to do that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I -- y~
us is concerned, I don't -- I don't want to
position to where we have to do a big chunk
stay up. So, if theirs is 3 percent, see -
don't see that, I get -- oh, I do. Forgive
yeah, I have it here. But are there -- you
salary? Is that the only thing we look at,
increase?
~u know, as far as
ever get in that
again just to
- and I still
me. Yes, I do;
know, it's the
the salary
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are other issues,
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like that thing Commissioner Letz was talking about, the
Board of Directors. What did you decide that was?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Education.
'i COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Boy, we can't -- I wouldn't
~ vote against that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see their medical went up
significantly too, as everybody's does.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just can't -- I just can't
-- I don't think I'm going to oppose a 3 percent salary
increase, because of what I intend to do with our employees.
Don't know that I can, but I intend to.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things that I like
on this, and I like them doing, is -- it's under item 5045,
their mapping or GIS stuff. They're partners with Kerr 911
and City of Kerrville and KPUB to go with one system for all
the entities, and that, I think -- I mean, I'm glad to see
that we're doing that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fantastic.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they provide a mapping
service that is as good as anybody on earth, I think.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. I think what's
important in the salary line item is that they are proposing
no merits.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I -- I somewhat agree
with Commissioner Oehler's comments about in the past, I
think I wasn't a champion of them giving much higher raises
out there than other entities have given. This year they
seem to be in line, so I can't really object to it too much.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court wish to
offer a motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval.
JUDGE TINLEY: To approve -- actually approve the
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, we have a motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second to
approve the 2010 Kerr Central Appraisal District operating
budget. Question or discussion on the motion? A11 in favor
of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(Commissioners Baldwin, Williams, and Letz voted in
favor of the motion.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed?
(Commissioner Oehler voted against the motion.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carried. Let's go to Item
17; consider, discuss, take appropriate action on setting
dates for budgeting workshops for FY 2010.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get out the calendar.
JUDGE TINLEY: Here we go.
MS. HARGIS: I believe last year we got them done
in four -- four workshops.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sounds about right. From my
standpoint, Wednesdays and Fridays are the best days, the
clearest days that I've got. All other days, I've got
dockets, albeit on Tuesday, it's generally just in the --
just in the morning. So, Tuesday afternoons, Wednesdays, and
Fridays.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tuesday afternoons is not
good for you, right?
JUDGE TINLEY: Tuesday afternoon is good for me.
Tuesday morning is not good for me.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, Tuesday afternoon, Wednesdays,
and Fridays.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When do you want to start?
MS. HARGIS: Well, the sooner, the better. I mean,
we're ready.
JUDGE TINLEY: You just opened it up to me last
Friday.
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: It's open -- well, it's been in there
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are we doing? I've got
a sideways calendar here. Is that what we're doing?
MS. HARGIS: Okay, we -- the -- tomorrow is the --
of course, the -- I mean, this Wednesday is the 15th, which
may be a little soon; I don't know. The 22nd is the next
Wednesday. We did them all on Wednesday last year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When's our City meeting?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 29th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 29th?
MS. HARGIS: I'd really like to have at least two
of them done in July, because it gives us a little
opportunity when we're doing the tax rate to have kind of a
consideration here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Don't get that optimistic.
MS. HARGIS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go into August.
MS. HARGIS: I know.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good plan, but --
MS. HARGIS: Well, you know, the rest of the world
gets through in June. I know we don't like to, but it would
really be nice if we could be halfway through in July. Yeah,
the City meeting's on the 29th, that afternoon. Then they
start -- doesn't it start at 2:00?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm?
MS. HARGIS: 2:00 to 5:00. We have to be out of
there by 5:00.
JUDGE TINLEY: We do?
MS. HARGIS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not going to be there for
three hours. I'm in favor of the morning of the 29th for
i one .
JUDGE TINLEY: Have our jury trials gone away, both
of them?
MR. EMERSON: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Morning of the 29th?
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm taking that off now.
MS. HARGIS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: 9:00?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the 22nd.
MS. HARGIS: 22nd would be a good time to get
I started.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Say
MS. HARGIS: 22nd would be
that way we'd have two done in July.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afterno~
good from my standpoint. Too hot for
JUDGE TINLEY: Afternoon on
it again?
-- that would be the --
~n of the 22nd would be
anything else.
the 22nd?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:30? 2:00?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Make it 2:00, 'cause I've
got AACOG in the morning. But 2 o'clock would work.
JUDGE TINLEY: Two o'clock will work for you, Bill?
Okay.
~ MS. HARGIS: On the 29th, we'll make that 9:00?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. 22nd at 2:00 p.
MS. HARGIS: 2:00 p. 29th at 9 o'clock. In
August, the 5th is the first Wednesday.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can do a -- which means our
regular meeting is on the 10th.
JUDGE TINLEY: And our jury trial has evaporated on
that date, right?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll be out of state that
week, so I'll miss out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about the 31st? Do two
that week?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of what?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 31st of July; it's a Friday.
MS. HARGIS: Okay, that would be fine. That's
great.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay, I'll miss it.
I'm leaving. I'll be gone the following week.
JUDGE TINLEY: So it won't solve that problem.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am too.
MS. HARGIS: All right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm going to go somewhere, just
because. (Laughter.)
MS. HARGIS: Okay, we do have a retirement seminar
on the 4th, but we'll be back on the 5th, so we could do the
morning of the 5th or the afternoon.
JUDGE TINLEY: How's the 5th sound? 5th of August?
THE REPORTER: I'll be gone that week, Judge, first
week of August.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, that's not good.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let the record show Kathy
and I are not going to the same place. (Laughter.)
MS. HARGIS: Can we back up maybe to the 24th of
July?
JUDGE TINLEY: When?
MS. HARGIS: The 24th of July, to take care of the
fact we won't have one in that week? That'd mean we'd have
two in that week.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm hearing no Fridays.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No Fridays, come on.
MS. HARGIS: We have the 12th.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 12th and the 19th?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay.
MS. HARGIS: Afternoon or morning?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Afternoon.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 12?
JUDGE TINLEY: Maybe at --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or 9:00.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm tentatively scheduled to be at a
juvenile law seminar on Wednesday. Let me look at Tuesday.
Tuesday afternoon, the 11th, would be okay for me.
MS. HARGIS: Okay. Okay, the 11th.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 12 o'clock?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: All right. Then the next one would be
the 19th, and it would be done, please. That leaves us
plenty of time for a special, or working on it. I'm
aggressive here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an AACOG day for me.
MS. HARGIS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you want to go to the
18th?
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two o'clock the 18th? Is
that okay with you, Judge?
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two o'clock?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, works fine for me.
MS. HARGIS: Now, what I would propose, because I
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think the Judge -- the Judge decides which ones were meeting
so we can notify them -- which parties. Kind of divide it up
fairly equally, where we have one big department and several
small ones like we did last year.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Ms. Grinstead is working on
that now.
MS. HARGIS: Okay, great. Okay. So, we have the
22nd at 2 o'clock in the afternoon. You have the 29th in the
morning at 9:00. We have the 11th of August in the afternoon
at 2:00, and August the 18th at 2:00. Is that fine?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what's we're setting
up today. Now, we may -- we may do some more.
MS. HARGIS: Yes. This is just four. This is just
four, but last year we managed to do that in four. It is
open to all of you to be able to look at the A.R. budget. We
did away with the C.C. budget, because we really didn't use
it last year, so if you have changes, remember, we do them
all in court. Just bring your notes. If you have something
you wanted to talk about or need individual help, just let my
office know. Either Tess or I or will come over and be glad
to help any of you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, are we in good shape on that
one? Thank you, Ms. Hargis. Let's go to Item 18;
presentation of audit report for the office of the Kerr
County District Clerk.
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MS. MABRY: Hello. I just wanted to say first that
I really thank Linda for her help on this audit. She's been
requesting one for a long time, and so we tried to be as
thorough as possible on this audit. She was very cooperative
and so was her office. I want to say that I really
appreciate the efforts that she does to be an advocate for
her employees. If there are any questions, I'd be glad to
answer them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Job well done.
MS. MABRY: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions on this District
Clerk's Office audit? Okay, let's move to Item 19; consider,
discuss, take appropriate on acceptance of audit of the Kerr
County Environmental Health Department. Ms. Mabry?
MS. MABRY: Okay. On the department of
Environmental Health, I just wanted to say, basically, this
department is very, very well run. I was very impressed with
the entire staff, and especially with Julie Trevino De Los
Santos. She's an exceptional employee, goes above and beyond
her job to just do impressive things down there. And if you
ever get a chance to go and visit with her, you will
definitely see what I'm talking about. So, anyway, if there
are any questions on this audit, I can answer them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything on the Environmental
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but I just wanted to say
that, don't we have some great employees?
MS. MABRY: We do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Including you.
MS. MABRY: Well, thank you. I appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. They're
fantastic people. Now, can I get a 4 percent raise out of
that deal? (Laughter.)
MS. PIEPER: Keep trying, Buster.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good try, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm sure they'll be built in
all kind of ways, Buster, before it's all said and done.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: Judge, before you finish, I just want
to say we really appreciate the cooperation that all of the
offices have given us. It's just been phenomenal, and
they're working with us and taking our suggestions, and we're
working as a team, and it's just a really -- it's been a
great experience for all of us.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Makes your job a lot easier,
doesn't it?
MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir, it does. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's move to Item 20;
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action regarding
eliminating a part-time jailer position and approving a
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full-time clerk position in the jail. You have the money?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Currently, I think we might in
this year's budget. There will be about an $8,000 impact in
next year's budget probably because of the difference between
the part-time and the -- you know, it's a part-time jailer,
which is paid at a lot higher rate than the -- than the
clerk. So, it's --
JUDGE TINLEY: I just want to save Commissioner
Letz some time and effort, 'cause I knew that was coming.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What this is all about --
Linda can even do it. We went to the direct file system
pretty well as of last week, week before. When they really
started, I've got part-time jailer positions that that person
has been helping out with the courts and doing this, but the
direct file is going to -- going to create a whole 'pother
deal onto the jail for getting it over immediately that very
next day to the clerk's office, whichever, and making sure
that it goes in the proper court, which is going to create a
full-time deal getting that done. We're averaging 10 arrests
a night, so it's going to create a lot more work. So what
I'm wanting to do is eliminate the part-time position, which
this person that's in that -- and I have already had
conversations about that's probably going to happen, and that
person has said there's no way they could do full-time any
more, and they know that I'm here today presenting it, so
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it's not going to be a surprise that somebody's position is
being eliminated and create the full-time clerk. I don't
think we need a jailer; I think we need a clerk to sit in the
courtrooms with them and to make sure all that paperwork is
done correctly.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All this to happen
immediately, or as close to immediate?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I would like to do is,
the one position I'm eliminating, make it all effective
August 1st. We'll get by till August 1st to get it done, or
the 16th of the month. Probably the 16th would be better;
we're already feeling the crunch. But that would give him
enough time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, the direct file thing
that all of y'all are goosebumply over, is that -- is that
going to cause any more hiring? Not in your place, but maybe
other places?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not in my department. I mean,
it's going to put a lot more work on Linda's staff, a lot
more burden on them. A lot more, you know, burden on the --
the District Attorney's staff, there's no doubt. But the
biggest advantage we're seeing, and already starting it, is
my average jail population is down in the 120's now instead
of the 170's.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, there go some jailers.
~I SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sorry, it does not work that
way, okay? What you're doing -- what you're doing right now
is you're getting people out of jail that don't need to be
there to begin with.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not ending the problem
children that the jailers have to deal with day to day, okay?
That we can't --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm just talking about the
number of jailers that you have, that you have to have for a
certain population.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Like I said, with the inmates
we have, you're going to have to have those jailers, if not
I more.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He can't take a joke at all.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, not when it comes to
jailers.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I wasn't joking.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Neither was I.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He goes on the defensive
pretty quick, doesn't he?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick, because my jail
staff is very well overworked. I think all of y'all that
have been over there and watch what they do can attest to
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that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back to the dollars, there's no
budgetary impact this year, but there will be next year? Or
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Each year, you -- at the end,
the salary line items always have quite a bit left, 'cause it
normally goes to paying the defense attorneys as y'all make
budget amendments towards the end of the month -- end of the
year. I would expect, because I have had some openings
through the year -- I have a couple right now -- that the --
about the $8,000 difference that it would be is going to be
covered in this current budget. I couldn't tell you that for
a fact, but I do expect that it would be covered.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you can tell me that for a
fact, that it's going to be in your budget, I'll vote for
this.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's going to be able
to be found in my budget, through amendments.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you commit that it will be
found in your budget --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It will come out of my budget.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
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approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
'~, (The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Long as you don't make
amendments to pay --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't say that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- defense attorneys.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You could have put that in your
statement. You did not say that.
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question,
now. Will you go out to hire a new clerk? Or is this --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had an opening and
interviewed two people for that opening as of last week,
okay? Both of them were excellent candidates. We --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the slot you're going
to use?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We did hire one, so the second
one, I will probably offer that -- we've already gone through
the whole process, you know, and just offer that person a
position starting the 16th.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 21;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action regarding renewal
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of Kerr County Teen Curfew for another year.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We do this each year at this
time. I know we don't use it that often. It is a good tool
as we go through, and I think it needs to stay in effect for
the county.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and second for approval.
Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All he's doing is running
them into the city.
II SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's not my problem.
(Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 22;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action to request
unclaimed capital credits received from Electric Cooperative
pursuant to Section 74.602 of the Texas Property Code from
I Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts; authorize County Judge
to prepare letter of request. As you recall, this is an
annual requirement that allows us to get these unclaimed
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capital credits. They've got to be used for specific
purposes, and approval of this will allow me to send the
appropriate letter and request those funds to be sent to us,
with a representation that we'll use them for approved
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move approval, Judge.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't know the amount this
year?
JUDGE TINLEY: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 23;
~! consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on adoption of
resolution in opposition to Clean Water Restoration Act. I
put this on the agenda after receiving a good deal
of communication from other counties; Kendall County, Marvin
Quinney down in -- Judge Quinney from Wilson County.
Essentially, what has happened is that the Clean Water
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', navigable waters. The -- the pending amendment would change
!, the applicability of that act to virtually all waters.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All surface water.
JUDGE TINLEY: Dry stream creek beds occasionally
'~, get water running in them, non-navigable rivers. And, you
know, we've had enough problem figuring out the applicability
with navigable, because we've got portions of the Guadalupe
', River, for example, in this county, portions of which are
classified as navigable and portions of which are not
navigable, and that's been a big enough problem as it is.
I And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I appreciate you
putting this on the agenda, and I'll move approval of the
resolution.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item to adopt the resolution in
opposition. Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only quick comment is --
and, to me, the only possible reason for them to go in and
want to re -- eliminate that word "navigable" is to do
exactly what everyone fears, that they're going to try to
exert federal control over all surface water in the country,
and I -- it's just wrong.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion? All
in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. It is
noontime. We've got a few more items. Some upcoming ones
are going to take a little bit of time, so why don't we be in
recess until about 1:30. We'll be in recess till 1:30.
(Recess taken from 12:02 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if
we might, after our noon recess. The next item on the agenda
is to -- is Number 24; consider, discuss, and take
appropriate action to obtain assistance from architects,
designers, and/or planners to assist in layout of building to
house Adult Probation, elements of Kerr County Sheriff's
Office, and/or others. I put this on the agenda subsequent
to the Court's action in a previous meeting suggesting that
we take a look at maybe transitioning out of leased space for
the Adult Probation Department and over-building, as it were,
to provide for expansion later, and in the interim, use it
for storage. In response to that, Commissioner Oehler and I
met with Chief Deputy Barton out at the Law Enforcement
Center. We looked at that property, we looked at the
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Juvenile Detention Facility, and at that meeting, the -- the
Sheriff's Office suggested that they need now and have needed
for some time additional administrative space, and were
looking at asking the Court to either expand the law
enforcement building that -- that they're presently in in a
manner that would give them more administrative space, and
this gave us the opportunity to talk about building an annex
of sorts nearby on the law enforcement property to house
certain portions of -- of their function as well as the Adult
Probation, and -- and maybe have some additional space. As
it turns out, the -- the Sheriff and Chief Deputy Barton and
Chief Adult Probation -- 216th Probation Officer Captain
Clete Buckalew, got together, and they've kind of come up
with a plan that incorporates what they think their needs are
going to be in the future. I think everybody's got a copy of
it, don't you? I've got additional copies here if you need
them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think I do.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's just a schematic sketch
that they've worked out. They've each got some security
concerns, and -- and it incorporates some common areas,
training, employee restroom and break room, primarily. At
this point, my feeling is that if we're going to go forward
with this project, which I think is appropriate, we need to
obtain professional help in assisting with making a layout
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that incorporates those concerns, that has these elements and
so forth, is the most efficient and one that best utilizes
the space that we're -- that we're going to be building.
What this one that you're looking at does not include is
additional build-out space. I think there's two factors that
are going to enter into that. Number one is where we put it
on the property, as it relates to the -- to the property
lines. It's anticipated that a building of this nature would
be at the -- fronting on Clearwater Paseo, on the northeast
end of the property, but immediately behind the setback line
there on Clearwater Paseo. That's pretty much where we are.
What -- what I would like for the Court to consider is to
authorize Commissioner Oehler, myself, and the Sheriff's
Office and -- and Adult Probation people to have access to
professionals such as Peter Lewis, or someone of his caliber,
to consult with us to work on a layout if we're to go forward
on this thing.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Cost estimates.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, is that location
you're talking about the northeast corner? That's not that
area where the -- where there's water problems, is it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Detention -- the detention pond
would be behind. There would probably be a requirement of
maybe 18 inches, 2-foot pad built up, somewhere in that
neighborhood.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Won't interfere with the
~ pond.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It won't interfere with the
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Detention pond, whatever you
want to call it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wasn't worried about
interfering with the pond; I was worried about the pond
interfering with us.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think it will. It'll
be higher than the level of the pond.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't have any specific cost
estimates. I think we need to -- we need to look at bringing
a surveyor in to -- or to establish those corners, and then a
-- a planning professional, such as Peter Lewis, who's been
helpful to us on a number of occasions. I can't imagine for
those preliminaries to be more than $5,000 to $6,000. Off
the top of my head, far as I know, we've got the money in
professional services. I notice there were some budget
amendments that were being offset against some of those
things, but I still think it leaves a considerable sum there
that would be available for that purpose.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I don't -- I mean, I'm
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certainly not opposed to doing that. I think before you get
too far -- and at this point, you're talking about really
just getting very rough preliminary estimates. I don't know
that I even -- we even need survey information at this point,
any survey -- but I think what would be good to put on the
agenda during this interim process is the different type of
contracts we can enter into from a construction standpoint.
And I know there's -- you know, there's, I know, all those
different construction -- all those different types of things
that we can now use, as opposed to hiring an architect,
'cause this is more a -- this is one of those buildings
that's kind of -- a design-to-build type thing may work
almost better than the more conventional way of going out for
a bid. We bid a builder-slash-architect-slash-engineer, and
then work with them once we get on the final phase of it,
rather than going out for bid on a specific building. It
just -- it may be an option to look at some of those things.
At the same time, that we're trying to get a rough idea from
a budget standpoint of how much money this may cost.
JUDGE TINLEY: What I was anticipating,
Commissioner, would be the portion of the job that would
necessarily have to be bid would be the base building; i.e.,
the slab, steel structure, exterior, walls, roof, insulation,
with rough-out plumbing wherever it was indicated to be, and
then -- of course, you'd have to -- you'd have to hire
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professionally the electrical, the plumbing, and the HVAC.
But most of the build-out, I think, could be accomplished
with proper specs by people that we either have with
Maintenance, community service. I realize it's a pretty good
size project, but I think given an adequate amount of time,
why -- of course, what you'd want to concentrate on first
would be the Adult Probation portion, if that's the direction
that we go.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess I don't want to get
caught in that same kind of catch-22 we got ought in, or are
caught in at the Ag Barn, that because it's a project, every
time we go out and buy sheetrock, we have to put it out for
bid. I want to be able -- I want to be able to have this set
up and structured so that we can get what we need to get
done, and then have it -- you know, the building part of it
may be as you say, but we need to make it real clear as to
what this project is and have that in a contract. And then
whatever we want to do in-house is fine, but we just need to
make sure it's -- and I don't even know if we can do that, I
mean, if we can split it out that way. I would think we
could. But I just -- we just need to be real careful because
of the bidding laws, the way all this stuff is now
I interpreted, that we don't start bidding garage doors and all
this other stuff like we had to do out there, the stuff Tim
did 'cause it was part of a bigger project.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's making a good point.
I'd also like to see us just keep in the back of our minds
that, you know, you're probably going to find costs very,
very reasonable right now.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's one of the reasons,
Commissioner, I started kind of pushing this pretty hard at
this point in time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But look at it also
as -- you know, as a turnkey, everything but the furniture.
You know, get somebody to do even -- even do those things
that we're planning on doing in-house; take a peek at it.
You know, it may be to where we're -- you know, you're
guaranteed really professional work, or I think basically
guaranteed professional work doing it that way, and it may
not be the expense that we all think it is, to be honest.
I've got a couple of questions about the actual drawing. May
I go there now?
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MR. BARYON: I don't have a copy of it in front of
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's no excuse.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not going to let that be
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I guess, Clay, help me
understand this thing over on your side of the plate. It
looks like I see six narcotic offices and 10 C.I.D. offices?
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an excuse for him.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. Thank you,
Rusty. What a leader you are.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'll provide it for him.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, do we have this -- I
know this is going to be the most stupid question ever asked,
Rusty and Clay. Do we have that many narcotic people?
MR. BARYON: No. Currently right now, there's
three.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three?
MR. BARYON: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we have six offices?
MR. BARYON: This was what I was -- what I was
asked to do for both my plan on this, and what I understood
the County wanted to do was to build also for future growth.
So -- we don't want to do like we did with the current deal,
and as soon as it's done, within five years, we're full.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I don't want you doing
that either.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the current building
also was built with what we had at the time. There wasn't
any extra offices when it was built. It was built for what
the department actually had, and that's what's caused us this
problem over 15 years. So, this one is built -- and that's
why you have a number of different -- we've got six C.I.D.,
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three narc. We got nine right now, okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 10 C.I.D. folks. You
don't have that many detectives.
MR. BARYON: Not currently, no, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, this is a future look.
What I'm seeing on Clete's side of it is the correct number?
MR. BARYON: I think Clete allowed for some growth.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It says he has 14.
MR. BARYON: That was including growth, though,
Buster. Is that correct?
MR. BUCKALEW: Yes, that's correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Today. Today the department
employs 14 persons, it says in your letter.
MR. BUCKALEW: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I see what, 14 offices?
MR. BUCKALEW: Well, that's -- in that particular
office, nine officers and five support people, so what I've
included is four additional offices. So, three of those are
going to be support.
MR. BARYON: The support staff are in that
reception area marked "Reception."
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Three in this part. There's
three in that area.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I see that.
MR. BARYON: Currently, you have how many probation
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MR. BUCKALEW: Currently in that office, there's
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so I think it's wise.
I'm not complaining. I'm just trying to figure out --
MR. BARYON: We tried to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- what I'm seeing here.
MR. BARYON: We just tried to make the most of the
space and to plan for future growth so we're not in the same
position in five to ten years.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was telling Clay at lunch
today that in one of my former lives -- Rusty --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I know some of your former
lives, Buster. I'll be careful not to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In one of my former lives, I
did a study, and I found that people function and produce
better if they have sunlight; i.e., a window to look out of
and to allow light to come in. And I'm just wondering, is
that the case here?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Down the hallway, there may
be. They also have a tendency to daydream more, and, you
know -- I think you have how many windows in your office,
I Buster?
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think the offices need
some kind of light.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the only comment I'll
make, Buster, turnkey, I think, is in a lot of this. I don't
mind inmates doing painting, but what we have to keep in mind
is inmate population, and I'm sure community service -- Clete
may be able -- turns over rapidly, okay? And if they --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's what I'm
saying.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if they are not convicted,
okay, number one, I can't force them to work at all, 'cause
it will keep them in their cell area. If they're convicted,
then we can force them to do work up to 48 hours, but that's
a rapid turnover. It's great for doing, you know, lawn
maintenance, maybe landscape out here, maybe some painting,
things like that, but if you're getting into much more than
that, I wouldn't recommend on of this side of the project
that we use inmate work right off the bat.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, that's exactly what I'm
saying. I know that -- I remember one time we used -- we had
-- you had a rock mason in your jail, and we started on a
project, and that lasted about two days, and he was gone.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He was gone. He made bond; he
got out or whatever, and now you're stuck.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, one other question, and
I -- what are y'all's thoughts about the outside, the veneer?
Are we going to put rock on it to make it look something like
the present facility?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As far as I'm concerned --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a yes?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: No-maintenance metal exterior.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Metal exterior, inexpensive,
nice looking building. I don't -- I don't suggest we put
galvaline on the outside, but -- but a color tint is fine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you might plan on
putting some rock wainscoting up partway.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just a little bit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I mean, that can always be
added later, too. I mean --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, it's 40 feet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- as long as we
plan up front, I mean, I agree with the Judge's standpoint
on, you know, finish out, what we need to finish out, or kind
of between the -- finish out what we need in this project,
but don't spend any money on offices we don't need. We can
do those offices out of budget as time goes on.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When we first started this
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conversation, I seem to recall that we were talking about
moving the training facility out of the Sheriff's law
enforcement center into this facility, and I see that. And
now I see some other things, you know, narc and C.I.D.,
whatever. My question is, everything you move over here,
what are you going to do with the space you're vacating at
the Sheriff's Office?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Use it, number one.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that, but, you
know --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, you want to know --
seriously, we still have a number of other offices that are
-- that are crowded and aren't being used. The training
facility -- training room we have now would probably be
turned into warrants or civil. We have no room for growth in
warrants and civil, okay? We have -- we still have the
administrative -- other administrative offices. You've got
patrol that's staying there. The patrol squadroom needs to
be enlarged a little bit. The patrol right now, I have the
patrol captain, the crime prevention officer, and a secretary
all in one little office. Those aren't moving out there.
They would move into some of these, so you're -- you're
freeing up a lot of the congestion we have now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Also give you additional space for
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your jail administration, which I'm told you need.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jail administration would --
could move up one whole row, because -- and the Judge
remembers this from the -- the one whole row of C.I.D.
offices right now would need to be taken out and expanded
into that evidence whole row. So, you've already, you know,
done away with five offices right there -- four offices that
have to be turned into evidence storage.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This would require moving
all that interactive television stuff between here and the --
and the law enforcement center?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Not between here, okay?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: From us to San Antonio?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Yes, from that --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To the academy from --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Here, right. And right now,
they haven't -- AACOG's kind of stalemated on that; they're
not teaching it and everything. But I don't have any
problem, and I don't think they would, of moving that
equipment over to a bigger training room where it would be
really more suited.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think they have any
~ problem.
'~, SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that would be a good
training room. It would about double the size of the
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training room, to where a lot of agencies in the county use
this, and some of their training stuff where we could use it
a lot better.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- I mean, I think
getting -- we need -- the first step, based on this, get a
preliminary policy. We probably almost need, in my mind, to
wait till budget, because looking at -- my calculations show
over a million dollar building any way you look at it. You
can build it --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 12,000 square feet.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 12,000 square feet for $80 with
all that computer stuff. $80 a foot is $960,000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Shouldn't be that much.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Either that, or size could be
cut, too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, either way.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We started out proposing
something much less than what you see here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. What I see here is, to
me, a million-dollar building, plus, and I think we need to
look at the budget considerations of doing something like
this. And even if it's 800,000 or if it's 1.4 million, I
mean, it's still -- it's a million-dollar project by the time
all is said and done, I bet. And -- but let's spend a little
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bit of money to get a rough -- get a real number for that,
and then --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm all for getting real
numbers, real close numbers.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think one of the things
you have to look at, though, in that is this time frame. I
don't know what we're going to talk about on the Thad Ziegler
deal, but, you know, we just have a few months left over
there. We -- I don't know if we can do what you're talking
about.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we -- Judge, can you
call that so we can intertwine these two things together?
JUDGE TINLEY: I could.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will you? "I could, but I'm
not." (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought that's where he
was heading.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right, let me just make one
comment on trying to get a cost. I think with some
professional help, we may be able to further refine this to
something that meets these needs, but may give a little bit
clearer picture of what those costs need to be based on, so
that that would give us the ability to really, then, lay it
in front of somebody to get some closer cost figures.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well --
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JUDGE TINLEY: I guess what -- what I'm suggesting
at this point is -- is I'm not talking about a full-scale
design. I'm just talking about some -- some planning and
layout help to get something a little bit tighter than this.
Maybe we don't need it; I don't know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need something. I
would -- to me, we need a builder more than we need an
architect at this point. We need someone like Steve Huser or
Mike Lowe, or, you know, others to see the cost per square
foot of this building. We can shrink it -- yeah, we can
shrink it down some, but we're not going to shrink it a whole
lot and make it worthwhile doing it, in my mind. And I think
the -- yes, it's going to take a lot better, you know,
traffic flow and all that other -- people movement and all
that kind of stuff before we, you know, pull the trigger on
something like this. But I think construction cost, to me,
is the most critical thing right now on a per-square-foot
basis, and I think that can be relatively easy to come up
with. And we'll find out real quick if this is going to be a
$500,000 project or a million dollar or 1.5 million, and then
it becomes a budget issue much more than a design issue.
JUDGE TINLEY: Becomes a budget issue any way you
go.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, yeah, but it's a bigger
budget issue. I think the other part we need to look at
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that -- and just -- but we need to get a real number from
someone who's a professional doing buildings like this.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. But don't you --
don't you think this builder's got to have something to go
on, though? I'm not sure -- I'm not sure this is it. I
mean, Clay, I love you and all that, but my gosh, some old
chicken walked across mine. I guess -- I don't know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way, I mean, as long as
we don't spend a whole bunch of money on how we do it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, you got three of them ganged
up against you out there that worked on this.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We all thought Clay did a
great job.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Speaking of the pistols on
their hips, I agree with you guys. I'm on y'all's side.
What side are y'all on?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The opposite one you're
normally on.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. That was a former
life.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we need to keep the
builders out of it at this point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We need to get -- we need to
get a schematic drawing of what it is we're wanting to build
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and get it scaled.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that.
JUDGE TINLEY: And then lay it in front of --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then we can go and poke
around with a few of the builders and say, "What can you
build this building for?" And give us a ballpark.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we got somebody like --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know, and they can give
us a rough idea of what it costs and see whether we can
afford this building or whether we are just --
JUDGE TINLEY: Whistling.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- whistling whatever they
whistle down in Center Point.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we get the right kind --
get the right kind of person up front, we can get some
estimates of cost, too.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have a real problem. I
just don't see the point in spending money where we can make
a phone call and find out the cost.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've already found the cost
for a basically metal building.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I know, but we want a
metal building with a finish out of a slab, bathrooms,
plumbing, electrical, computers, and all that sheetrock, and
I think --
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If they don't know what
they're bidding, how we can do that? I mean, it makes a
difference every time you build a wall. Need to establish
where the walls are going, where the windows are going to be
and all that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Needs to have a design. As
soon as we decide to do it, we're going to throw that money
away and do a new design.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: With due respect to the
designers of this so far, there may be better ways to do it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, I agree with that. Square
footage-wise, I think there's a change; you're going to end
up with this many offices and this much square footage.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well --
JUDGE TINLEY: Why don't we call Item 26 at this
~ point?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a great idea, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Which I will do now, which is
consider, discuss, take appropriate action on amendment to
lease for the Thad M. Ziegler Building which is currently
being used for the Adult Probation department.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one question. Might
be the same question as Commissioner Baldwin; I'm not sure.
How much time does that lease give us to work on this?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty darn close to the
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same.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me see if I can tell you what
your options are. Number one, you can elect to bail out of
there come September 30, which I don't think is a viable
option. We've got one proposition on the table which is a
one-year lease with two consecutive one-year options, 90-day
notice, I believe. Isn't that correct, Rex? We've had that
option. Rex went back to the property owner's
representative, and we got a six-month option at 3,500 a
month, whereas the one-year's 3,167. And we can follow that
with an 18-month option for, I presume, the 3,167. Or we can
do the -- I presume a 12-month renewal; I would think that
would have the two one-year options behind it, as per the
current one, but if we want to bail out at the end of the six
months, we can give 45 days notice and pay a month's rental
penalty, which is --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How long does it take to
build this?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on when you start.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Huh?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. To finish out the stuff
Not very long.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nine months.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have you seen how fast that
-- you know, Huser put up Fuddruckers?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's put up. Is it open?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's just about open. They
haven't been working on it 45 days.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe a little longer than
I that.
I COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not much.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Forty-six.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They flew in there -- I mean,
you know, that's a big commercial building that's going to go
in there, and he's getting paid well for doing that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll bet he is.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In other words, I don't
think it will be six months.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, good gosh, no.
', COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That answered it for me.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're talking about stud
~ walls with sheetrock on.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're going to talk about
computer wires and lots of electrical, plumbing.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think it shouldn't take
that long.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bet it will take six months.
25 ~ COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From the time we get through
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what we're doing today to start, probably so.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If we took that option,
which I like, we'd have six months --
JUDGE TINLEY: To bail out. That's 45 days. I
think that's probably the best one. If we can basically do
the deal that was laid in front of us initially, three
one-years -- or a one-year lease with two one-year renewal
options, and then a bailout clause at the end of six months
in the first year, paying a month's penalty.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We also -- we're not in the
time that we were in a year ago when building around here was
going berserk. You couldn't get anybody to work; they were
all busy. You're going to find concrete guys are going to be
pretty quick on the job. You're going to find those metal
building companies aren't spitting out metal buildings like
they did for a long time. You're going to see things that --
people that are working to get it done.
JUDGE TINLEY: Steel price is down considerably.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I tell you, we've got this --
just for an example, bridge projects, they're bidding those
things just to have work to keep their employees. They
aren't even putting in a profit on them hardly; they're
trying to keep their company alive, keep their employees.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a good time to do it. It,
you know, still takes time to --
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It does.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- to schedule --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get it all nailed down, what
we want to build. We got to find what we want to build
before we --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can we get into the
design-build option, as Commissioner Letz brought to us, and
accomplish what you and I would like to see done, a more
refined plan, without a commit -- full commitment to go all
the way?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not without a penalty of some
sort. If we're going the design-to-build route, you're going
to build it. You just have more flexibility. You don't have
to -- in, you know, working on it, and I think some of the
~ prices.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We could design-build and
award it without going out for bid.
JUDGE TINLEY: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any way you do it, you're going
to have to bid it. That right there is two months.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You've got -- you're going to
have to do a bid off of something.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, design your building --
you're bidding the companies that do that kind of work.
You're not -- you don't need a drawing, per se. They develop
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the drawing as part of the project.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They do that, and then it
goes out to bid.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're bidding for the
contractor and the price.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're effectively advertising for
bids at that point.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: And we -- it may turn out we don't
want to do that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the budget
consideration -- I think in about a month from now, we'll
know if -- or probably close to a month, budget-wise, whether
we're going to be able to do it or not.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on how you --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we just need to wait.
You're still going to have a budget impact.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, because of time
constraints, I'd like to get this in front of a planning
professional to give us something a little bit more definite,
with the players to have input to that professional, and --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Want to put a time constraint
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on it? Are we going to drag this out for six months before
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, I know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Peter goes right to the
builder. He doesn't know this information; he's going --
he'll draw something on paper and he's going to give it to
Mike Lowe, probably.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, that's typically
what he does.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that's how any
architect's going to do it, 'cause they're not builders.
They don't know the costs.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Offer a motion, somebody.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The agenda item would be --
I mean, you can tell a lawyer wrote this thing. There's room
here to do anything. You can start a zoo.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see anything
mentioned in that about dogs.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, dog parks.
JUDGE TINLEY: This is the zoo.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we approve the
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second your motion.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that includes -- that
includes architects, designers, and planners? Or architects
or planners or designers. That's what it says.
JUDGE TINLEY: Can we have a survey to determine
the property corner? 'Cause I think we're going to have to
know that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do we need that?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We don't know it.
JUDGE TINLEY: We may be in a problem with this 150
foot.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not corners of the building,
the corners of the property.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that. I'm saying
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let's locate it. They're out
where. Have them reestablished.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Didn't we get that --
didn't we get some idea what that was all about when we were
looking at that piece of property next to it?
JUDGE TINLEY: We know where it is on paper. We
just don't know where it is on the ground to try and
determine.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We don't want to propose to
build something over on some other person's property.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, we don't want to do
that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Setback.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to include in my
motion that I would prefer that County Surveyor -- a surveyor
to determine legal boundaries.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Of that one corner, or the
whole -- just the one corner?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We kind of know the rest of
it. I guess that one corner.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd say the two points on
I that .
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: On that north --
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Northeast.
JUDGE TINLEY: Front and back.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Right down to the street and
back over by Schreiner.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then we'll know where the
line is. Hopefully nobody will tell you that --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: There's a mark on the one by
Schreiner there. It's along that fence; I saw it a few
months ago.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You know where it is?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Pretty close, yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, then we just need to
establish the one.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, the detention pond is an
issue in that, you know, it was built so many years ago, it
doesn't hold much water, and it overflows every time it
rains. Anyhow, I'm not sure that the City's not going to
require something to be done with it to bring it up to what
it should be. And now that they did all that re-drainage
across the road, I don't know what's going happen with that,
or if it's in the right location or not any more.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's one reason we need to
be looking at this now, because there may be some
requirements that should be imposed across the road.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you're possibly right.
JUDGE TINLEY: 'Cause I think there's been some --
some restriction of those drainage flow areas.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. Actually, they opened
them up, which I think may even do away with -- a lot of
that's open. That one small drainage area is open alongside
our property line, you know, the -- that pie side, you know,
the far -- kind of south side -- north side. You may not
even have to have that pond; I don't know, because of how
much they opened up that drainage deal on the other side of
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the road.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You know, there's a resource in
the back of the room.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, he's here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Couldn't resist, Gordon. He
doesn't have any information to be able to know what we're --
detention ponds, all that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We tried to get the City to
come out there last year during the rain, and they haven't
shown up yet. Because it overflowed into --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We haven't had any rain.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This was over a year ago,
okay? Because if it always overflows into the parking lot.
That's why I'm saying it's been a long time to get them to
look at it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, Buster, on your motion,
are you going to put any dollars on this, or are we just
going to spend as much as we want?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I don't think that --
I don't think that that's a question. Are you going to go
just spend all you want?
JUDGE TINLEY: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't -- I wouldn't know a
dollar figure, and neither do you. You know, we're talking
about here in Kerrville, not down in Comfort.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that just -- I mean, I --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the second one today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's different levels --
this thing -- I mean, I think we need to have a clear idea of
what we're trying to get, and that will determine the cost.
You talk about a lot of different things.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talk to an architect and a
surveyor. What else?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Get a proposal as to what
they're going to charge?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, get -- get a refined layout that
incorporates those needs.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Talking 5,000? 10,000?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, what do you want? A
number.
JUDGE TINLEY: Cap it at six. That's my top.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not to exceed six? Is that
~ what you want?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. If I can work within that, I
don't see any problem.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't either. We can get
it done for less; 2,500, I hope.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think you can get
it for that.
25 I COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you don't know. We
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might.
JUDGE TINLEY: Might be surprised. If we get --
get Peter between us, we might.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not to exceed $6,000.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second.
Question or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Okay. Let's
talk about the lease now. What are we going to do with the
lease?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I like the six months deal,
and let's roll the dice out there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Penalty.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Get the thing built. Let's
get this thing built and get going.
(Low-voice discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that a motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Try it out. Throw it out
there, see what happens.
JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute.
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MS. HARGIS: There's no way we can get it done -- I
mean, even if you got it built, you got to get the money. If
we have to do other types of financing, it's going to take a
couple months to do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Don't worry about the mule; just
load the wagon.
MS. HARGIS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There you go, Judge.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The six-month deal -- the
six-month deal has that extra time with it, 45 days or
something like that, right?
JUDGE TINLEY: No, we got a 45-day notice -- what
we have from today, we've got eight and a half months from
today.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Before the end of that six-month
period. And if you're going to go beyond that, you just roll
out the end of that year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that's the reason she
should not be worrying about that, because there is time out
there to do this?
JUDGE TINLEY: We're not going to make this thing
happen October 1, no.
MR. EMERSON: You really have seven months on the
25 six-month.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Hmm?
MR. EMERSON: By the time you back off on the
notice provision, there's seven months to make a decision.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. But if it stretches out for a
period of -- of considerable length, you just run out to the
end of year, you don't take the penalty. You got three
different options available to you. That was a motion, you
said?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: With the six-month bailout with the
penalty, the third option?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the one I like. Yes,
sir, it's a motion.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: And a second. Question or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Let's see if we
can fill in the blanks here. Item 25, consider, discuss,
take appropriate action on reviewing the status of interlocal
agreement for City of Kerrville concerning Subdivision Rules
and Regulations in the ETJ.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was that that sheet of
propaganda that you had earlier?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess it's going to
relate to that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me go get mine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we all got a copy of --
well, first, back up. Since we last met, I think I had a
meeting with the City Manager, some of the City staff, where
I presented a map that showed areas, divided the ETJ up into
City/County area -- jurisdictions. They took that map. It
was about three weeks ago, and I believe they then had a City
Council meeting or workshop where they worked on it, and what
we have before us is what the City has sent back, which is
quite different than what -- the map that I had. Just to
make a little bit of -- just to show you, the yellow on this
map is what I had as the County jurisdiction, and the yellow
on the middle map is what the City has as the County
jurisdiction. They are a lot different, but then again, they
really aren't a whole lot different in areas.
We received this proposal back from the City at
5 o'clock, almost -- 4:30 on Friday, and I don't -- I'm not
prepared to really, you know, spend a whole lot of time on it
today, other than I'm glad we got a response from the City,
and it -- I'm very happy that we seem to be proceeding down
the road of dividing up the ETJ into City jurisdiction and
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County jurisdiction, and getting on with our own business and
their business. Their map is of such a scale that they sent
back that I think we really need to incorporate existing
subdivisions, CCN's, topography, the roads, things of that
nature, to really look at it, and -- and then kind of look at
it, and I guess discuss it on the 29th. Possibly next time
we're going to be with City Council. It seems to me we're at
that point.
I was a little disappointed that City Council went
ahead and went as far as they went on this and sent us a full
proposal when we never have seen anything. And they sent us
a new contract, so -- you know, I guess they did that because
they imposed a deadline on this process to be finished by
tomorrow. And I think it's a little bit unreasonable for the
City to think that we're going to look at something in a
matter of hours that they took three weeks to create. And I
think it's actually optimistic that we -- we can just talk
with Len Odom about this, obviously, if we need to. Each of
the Commissioners need to look at it. I really think we
probably need a workshop on the county side, and then meet
with the City Council on the 29th, and if the City chooses to
throw it out, want it to go to arbitration because they took
three weeks, well, it doesn't -- the City can do that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see on here Kerrville
jurisdiction and Kerr County jurisdiction, same color?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I saw tnat.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a trick?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think what we see is the
yellow is the county jurisdiction, and the other parts of the
city jurisdiction came out all one color.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The white's the city?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think white's the city.
MR. BROWNING: Yeah, that's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not two shades of yellow?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the basic, I think,
philosophy -- this is why I say I think, while the maps are
somewhat different, there are a lot of similarities. We
started out -- my plan was if it was an existing CCN or
existing subdivision, I kept it under county authority, and
then we looked at the undeveloped areas, and I kind of looked
at roads, topography, and what I thought likely development
would be there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me why it's so
important to you about the CCN.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The CCN's aren't that important
to me. They're really brought into the whole mix by Kevin
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Coleman, and the reason is, in a CCN, the City will not
provide the water or the sewer -- or not provide the water,
anyway. And because it's under -- so it kind of goes -- it
goes hand-in-hand with the existing subdivisions. It's just
like the area of Kerrville South, goes into that category.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, a subdivision that's out
in the ETJ that's a CCN, whether it's Aqua Texas, or --
JUDGE TINLEY: Wiedenfeld.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- Wiedenfeld or the guy
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If it's a CCN, city -- I
mean, what would they -- why would they want to establish any
kind of control in there?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that was how we had the
map that I gave to the city. On their map, it appears to
me -- and the scale's real difficult, because it's so small,
but that there are some CCN's that are in their areas, and
I'm -- I don't know why they did that. I mean, it was --
they were the ones -- it was Kevin Coleman came out with
originally one of the proposals to exclude the CCN's in the
subdivisions. This map that we received this time is -- has
the benefit of Council's input in addition to City staff's
input, I believe. And I think it's a -- maybe just a matter
to try and make it more simple.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Gordon, you want to fire a
MR. BROWNING: I'm sorry?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Would you address my
question? If you don't want to, that's fine. I understand.
My question is, with a subdivision out in the ETJ that has a
CCN, say Aqua Texas is out there doing it; why would you want
to get involved in it? I mean, what -- why?
MR. BROWNING: The -- we can, and do in some
instances, still require them to build that system to our
standards.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really?
MR. BROWNING: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Over and above.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What about if it's existing?
MR. BROWNING: If it's existing, that's a problem.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what?
MR. BROWNING: It presents a problem. And -- but
we can still require our subdivision ordinance fire flow
requirements in those subdivisions.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I was thinking only
just existing --
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, this is -- this is what I
think the -- one of the big issues in this is that if
somebody comes into an existing subdivision and does a -- two
or three revisions and it's in a CCN, there's a revision of
plat. Is the City, you know, going to require fire
suppression or a fire system to be installed, at least in
that area? And that's always been one of the big talking
points, and that's something that --
MR. BROWNING: And it still is a big point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Still is a big talking point.
And it's just a matter of -- it's where you draw the line. I
mean, I think that, in my opinion, if it's one person
dividing a lot into two or three, there should be no
requirement to do an upgrade. If they're -- you know, if
it's a developer that goes in and buys 20 lots and then
starts redoing all that, yes, it does make sense. And that's
why we are still discussing this matter.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Gordon.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't go away. Let me ask
a question. In the letter that accompanied this map, --
MR. BROWNING: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Point Number 1 talked
about the Council reaching consensus on the following,
provided to the County for its acceptance a map depicting a
line of demarcation defined as the authority of the City and
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the County to be used as a basis... blab, blab, blab. That
line is based on the following rationale. One, existing ETJ
line. Okay, that's Point Number 1. Point number 2 talks
about the draft map as attached, and some of the same
language, but it goes on to say, as defined by the proposed
alternative line depicted on the attached map. Now, what
have we got here? The one that's existing, or an
alternative? And, if so, where is it shown?
MR. BROWNING: The existing line is the ETJ line.
This is the alternative. The alternative is the yellow
highlighted areas that would come out of our jurisdiction.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. So, anything that's
in yellow within that --
MR. BROWNING: The darker -- yeah, the darker
yellow within that green line.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Within that green line,
okay. Anything that's yellow within the green line is
county, and anything that's white within the green line is
city.
MR. BROWNING: It's a pale yellow, but it's
white -- it shows up more white on your map.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of see this as a good
starting point, actually.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's very close.
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on it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's a few areas that I
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you responsible for
MR. BROWNING:	Oh, we'	re -	- we had a	hand	in it.
COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	We'	re saying	good	things;
MR. BROWNING: There was quite a few of us working
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's some very good reasons
why there's some differences between the proposal we sent and
this, and why they made some changes. I have some questions
in a few areas, and I really -- and I guess maybe I'll call,
or maybe -- you know, what's the next step from the City's
position? Do you have any idea?
MR. BROWNING: No, sir, I actually don't. I
suspect that, from what I've heard from both sides, is that
there'll be more discussion on the 29th.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 29th, on this issue.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's probably -- our
plan was really to have a workshop so we can come up with a
map, is probably our next step, as opposed to the map that I
used; I drew a map, but I didn't have input from the rest of
the Court.
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MR. BROWNING: I think we're all looking forward to
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think we're getting very,
very close. Conceptually, we're in agreement on how to do it
now, and also most of the areas. So --
MR. BROWNING: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bruce, I think we've been
working on this for what, four years?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we worked on it for a
while and we were -- we've been working on this phase of it
for nine months.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 34, 35 years. So, don't let
him get carried away on this dog park thing, okay?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that going to be in the
I ETJ?
COMMISSIONER
in the white portion.
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
JUDGE TINLEY
COMMISSIONER
WILLIAMS: In the what? It could be
BALDWIN: The white portion.
OEHLER: I believe it is in the ETJ.
Why don't we just cede that to them?
BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's an idea.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The City now owns a new dog
park.
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JUDGE TINLEY:	Okay, are	we through	with that item?
COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	Looks like	it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Got anything more on it?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Moving forward.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's go to Item 27, then;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action on professional
printing of the FY 2009-2010 budget book.
MS. HARGIS: Tracy's going to do a Power Point.
I'm going to let her talk about it just a little bit.
MS. SOLDAN: I've e-mailed most -- I think all of
the department heads asking for their input on department
descriptions and that sort of thing. We'd like to add more
to the budget books and make them available to post on the
web site for the public to view, to be more transparent, to
have -- to meet with G.F.O.A. and the Comptroller's standards
of the way things are going. So, I have a Power Point
presentation to show you on what some of the pages might look
like and some of the content that I'll put in it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As usual, we don't get to
watch. Thank you, Rex. Rex cares.
MR. EMERSON: Hey, it's budget time. Anything for
you guys. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's how it works, too.
Have I talked t~o you about dinner tonight?
MR. EMERSON: Ravioli out of a can.
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MS. SOLDAN: So, we've got some information about
the Judge and the Commissioners. I'd like to add a map of
the precincts and saying who the Commissioners are, a little
bit of information on where Kerr County is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Question.
MS. SOLDAN: Yeah?
JUDGE TINLEY: Would someone in the public be able
to zoom in and be able to determine which street or highway
the boundary between, say, 2 and 3 run down, or 1 and 2 run
down?
MS. SOLDAN: Not with this map, but if I could get
a better map, maybe.
JUDGE TINLEY: 911.
MS. SOLDAN: Again, just location of where we are,
what the average climate is, what the population has been.
And when the census comes out in 2010, we can get another --
next year, get another bar up there. I'd like to put some
history in there so that people who are not living in this
area that might be considering it would know a little bit
more about it, or even people that live here might not know
some of the history that's -- and then these would be the
pages before each department's budgets that would talk about
what that department does, with a picture.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. And you're going to
charge people for this?
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MS. SOLDAN: No, there's no charge for this.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
MS. SOLDAN: I just added a couple of departments
here to show you. And so we'd have a page for each
department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See Pat? Pat's in there
twice.
JUDGE TINLEY: As it should be.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As it should be.
MS. SOLDAN: So, I've done some research on other
government entities' budget books, and so I've taken some
things from those, and I'm trying to incorporate it into
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MS. HARGIS: Really just trying to -- one of the
things that we've -- you know, the transparency thing with
the Controller's office, but also the way that we print them
now, it's very difficult to read what comes off of our
printers, even though we make it as clear as we can. And
this gives us a nice document on the web. It also
provides -- we're going to have some printed for all of the
department heads; not a lot, just enough for each one of you
and for each department head, and these are good tools to
have. I mean, I've been making binders, which, you know, we
spent about as much time and about as much effort, and this
is a permanent document that we want, and it also helps us
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with our notes for the audit. We'll prepare a lot of the
notes for the audit of things we've done, our accomplishments
and things of that nature, which will kind of roll into our
management and discussion letter. So, it's kind of a preempt
to that, and getting us to where we're G.F.O.A. compliant so
that, you know, some day that we wanted to send a book in --
I know the Judge doesn't think we need to, but we could get
an award.
JUDGE TINLEY: You want me to tell them the story?
MS. HARGIS: No, I don't.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: But I just think it's -- it's just a
step towards making it more of a professional document,
something that you can have that's easier to read, easier to
deal with. And if you don't want to look at your computer,
you've got a good document to go with.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this something you print
in-house, or you have to send it out?
MS. HARGIS: We're going to send it out to have it
JUDGE TINLEY: Cost estimate?
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MS. HARGIS: Huh?
JUDGE TINLEY: Cost estimate?
done.
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for 60. And we've been spending close to 2,000 on what we've
been doing out of my budget to prepare the books, so it's
not --
JUDGE TINLEY: I didn't realize we've been spending
that much out of your budget.
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- who do we go to?
MS. HARGIS: Who, the books? You guys got three of
them last year, even though we took the pages back from you
last year and tried to do them, and then each department head
got one. And then the clerk's office gets one so that she
has it on file. We can -- you know, we can narrow the number
of books down. We just -- we just needed a number to get out
there to see how many we really needed.
JUDGE TINLEY: Traditionally, we have offered them
to the public, or given some, as opposed to a dollar a page,
and I think Jannett has brought that to us every year to
', establish the cost to the public for the budget. I guess
that was a -- we'd have enough to sell there, too, wouldn't
we?
MS. HARGIS: Well, because it's on the web, they
can print them out themselves, print out the page, so I
really think -- if they do come in and want one, we have --
we'll get one that's not bound, and then she can just, you
know, easily print off of that. So, part of it is the
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colored pages. This is the first year setting it up, getting
it ready and things of that nature. Takes a little bit more
effort the first year to get it done. It's also a good tool,
like, for myself; when you first move here, you don't really
know who your elected officials are. If we -- and we now
have everybody's picture, so that -- you know, a lot of
people are running for election. It gives people -- you
know, they go on our web site; they see who's running. Do I
know them? Do I not know them? Little bit about the job so
they can make better decisions, hopefully.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Printed locally or printed
I out somewhere else?
MS. HARGIS: Locally.
MS. PIEPER: I thought all of our information was
on the web site.
MS. HARGIS: I think each of you have a web page.
Mine's not very good. I think if you spend a lot of time on
your page, it has been, but it's not in the budget book. The
budget book was just strictly plain documents. It's a little
bit hard to -- to look at on the web, because you've got to
page down. It's about 200 pages. So, if you have it fixed
more by category, then that person looking for a particular
section of the budget, then it's a little bit easier to do.
It's -- you know, I just -- I believe it's a better looking
document. It goes with the transparency and falls more in
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line in putting us on the map as the county that they want to
be, and we need to put it out there so people can see it. We
don't have any --
JUDGE TINLEY: You would really like to send it in
to G.F.O.A. too, wouldn't you?
MS. HARGIS: Not for a while. We probably got
three years before we get all the data in there for that.
There's a lot of extra geographic data. But once we get all
this data compiled, these things, we can use it for grants
and a lot of things. A lot of the departments can use the
data in the back of it by just, you know, printing those
things up for -- for grants, because it's going to have what
our tax rate is combined with all the other entities, what
the water situation is here. There's a lot of data that goes
behind it. It's about 25 pages that can be used for grants.
It's a typical question asked for grants, and they call it --
you know, a lot of -- a lot of counties put that as
supplemental information in their audits. We don't do that,
but some of them do, but we haven't gone to that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are you talking about a
printing process or a color copying process?
MS. HARGIS: A printing process.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you ought to
investigate color copying, and there's a shop here in town
that a lot of folks know about and use that does color
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copying at a much lesser charge, and the quality is just as
good.
MS. HARGIS: Well, we just got a price to bring it
to you. We'll do the best that we can before we get it
printed. It's going to take us a little while. We have
books that we're going to prepare for you, and then everybody
else can still go out on -- in Incode and look at their
budgets. It will take us about a month afterwards, because
we have to get the budget approved and then printed. So,
we're trying to get moving now, unless -- 'cause the pages
will change as we move all the way up to the end.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds to me like we really
don't have a say in it; she's just going to go do it, just
like she does everything else.
JUDGE TINLEY: I was unaware that -- that the cost
for what we've had heretofore was almost the same amount. I
didn't -- had no idea that that cost was running that high.
And -- and you've also got the labor factor that's involved
in it, and --
MS. HARGIS: That's why we went --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- you can get about the same thing
professionally done for just a few bucks more.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It doesn't -- I never really
thought about it, but that's why we've gotten away from so
many copies on the Court, because it was so expensive, and is
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so much paper in the budget. You know, I don't -- I think --
I question the need for, you know, anything
bare-bones budget book. I don't think that
whole, you know, looks at our budget books,
are going in for specific reasons with spec
to be very transparent, and that's good. A
information you're talking about I think is
more than a
the public as a
and those that do
ific -- we've got
lot of the
good to have on a
web site or in a document, a county document. If it's in the
budget book, I guess it can go in that same document. Price
isn't all that much. But, I mean, we -- we got to have the
budget available for everyone, and there needs to be a
certain number of hard copies around. And doesn't -- and it
doesn't cost that much more, you know, to get it
professionally done than doing it in-house, so I don't mind
doing that. I do agree with Commissioner Williams that
copying something in a book this large, with -- really, most
of these numbers in it, copying them and getting them bound
outside to me is a better option than spending a whole lot --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we can cut the
cost, seriously. If you'll talk to me afterwards as to who
does that in town, --
MS. HARGIS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- I think you can cut the
cost by providing good originals and doing the color copying
process with a binder -- you know, being bound -- loose-leaf
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bound type thing, instead of a tighter bind. I think you can
do it for not more than what you're spending, maybe even
less.
MS. HARGIS: We tried doing it on the GPS type of a
situation when we punched all the little holes and did the
binder. The first year, it took us more -- we were up here
for hours. I mean, we just --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's you trying to do it.
If you let somebody who has the equipment do it, they can do
it in minutes.
MS. HARGIS: Okay. So --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I didn't realize that mission
statements were part of the Auditor's job. All the other
elected officials and department heads --
MS. HARGIS: They're not part of our job. We
suggested it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I suggest you're taking time
to do that.
MS. HARGIS: No, sir, we just --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, you're not taking time to
do that?
MS. HARGIS: I don't understand the question.
Would you like to rephrase the question to me?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll be happy to. There has
been time spent in your office; somebody is doing mission
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statements for all elected officials and department heads, or
most of the elected officials. When did that become part of
the Auditor's duty and job?
MS. HARGIS: We've been developing the book, and in
coordination with the other books that we have, and some of
the books had mission statements. We have not given anybody
more than three or four lines as a suggestion. We -- if they
didn't want it -- the page we sent them was simply a
suggestion. That was --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why suggest?
MS. HARGIS: Because we are trying to set up the
guidelines, and if they didn't like the page, they didn't
have to have it. We told them that when we sent it out.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Waste of time.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Bruce, F.Y.I., they just asked
me for ours. I sent -- I have two different ones. One's for
the jail, one's for the Sheriff's Office, and I provided them
with those mission statements. They didn't suggest mine.
MS. HARGIS: We didn't make them up on our own at
all.
JUDGE TINLEY: The --
MS. HARGIS: There are a lot of books out there
like this.
JUDGE TINLEY: From an economic development
standpoint, I think it's a good tool. And what we're going
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to have available to us county-wise, economic development, I
think is in a state of flux right now.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that what you give the
County Auditor?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, from that standpoint, I think
it's a good tool. And with respect to the -- to the grant
applications, I don't know how many applications we make for
grants in a given year. I'd say, conservatively, a dozen,
probably more. If each time that that has to happen, that
information is having to be developed and compiled and sent
in with that draft, I think that alone would be well worth
the cost if it's already packaged up and you can just send it
right in. I think that would be worth the cost.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It is worth it,
particularly if you're dealing with state agencies and
federal agencies.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as she goes through
you, Commissioner Williams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Fine with me, if you want to
go find a better price and go through your suggestion, rather
than just doing status-quo.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can do that. I think we
can beat that price.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- "consider,
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discuss, take appropriate action on professional printing."
What do we need to do?
MS. HARGIS: Well, we wanted to bring it to you to
see if you even wanted it, number one, and that we wanted to
get it professionally printed. That's the reason we brought
it. I mean, we've been putting them together on our own.
You didn't have books before, so people were calling us
constantly wanting to know what their budgets were. So, the
first year I was here, I put together the first budget book
that you had, and -- and tried to put tabs in it and
everything. I don't know that Tommy put together the same
type of book that I put together. He may have, but I
couldn't find it.
(Inaudible comment from the audience.)
MS. HARGIS: But I don't think they were in
binders. They were just --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They were like one of those
little -- the little holes all in them.
MS. HARGIS: Well, there's not any in my office for
me to look at, anyway. Needless to say, I mean, we'll do
what you want us to do. We just feel that it would be nice
to have something that was easier to read on the web, that
would look more professional. And we can do it ourselves.
We did it before; we can do it again. We have every year.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it makes sense to go
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outside. I mean, it doesn't make sense to do it in-house;
the cost is as high or cheaper to contract some of this out.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All you have to provide is
good originals, and I really believe we can cut the cost.
MS. HARGIS: Yeah. We don't have a color printer;
we just have a color jet that we have to use to print the
stuff with. We don't have a color printer.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: If we did, we'd print them ourselves.
JUDGE TINLEY: What's the consensus for she and
Commissioner Williams to work together to try and come up
with a methodology and go forward on the outside --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm cool with it. We'll do
it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to give it an A.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: A.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As long as Commissioner
Williams or one of us has something to do with it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a plus or a minus?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's a plus.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Got to be a plus.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll get together; we'll
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MS. HARGIS: All right. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is how you do it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That way nothing's on the
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just numbers, 1 to 10, score
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 28; consider,
discuss, take appropriate action to determine whether or not
the volunteer fire departments in Kerr County can deliver
water to citizens in need of water due to wells running dry.
Commissioner Oehler, this was added to the agenda rather
late. Pretty disturbing item.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it is disturbing,
because the fire departments are starting to get some calls,
and it's not -- it's more of a -- what I'm asking for is
information from the County Attorney, whether -- whether or
not there's something in the law that says that in an
emergency, we couldn't deliver water, or can a fire -- county
fire department couldn't deliver water to somebody. Is that
a big question?
MR. EMERSON: It's a question that I need to
research for you in detail. My initial inclination is that
we can't spend public money for private gain. And there's
hundreds of people that live out in the county as it is that
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deliver water that don't have wells, and if you open this
door, I'm not sure you can close it again.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, the problem is, they
haven't been able to find a bunch of people that will deliver
water. You know, we need to maybe advertise for people
that -- you know, make your name known or something, that
you're willing to haul water to people that are out of water.
But they're not having any luck finding people -- private
people or companies that are willing to haul around water,
and I think one of those reasons is liability.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What quantities are we
talking about, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sir?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What quantities are you
talking about?
', COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would say 1,000 gallons or
~ something like that. Probably under 1,000 gallons at a time.
The thing is, we don't know how long it's going to go on. I
mean, the volunteer fire departments, a couple of them have
asked me about it, because they -- you know, they want to try
to help the people that they serve. But at the same time,
how do you skirt the liability?
MR. EMERSON: Without being -- without being
reimbursed for the expense, I'm not sure you can do that
without declaring some kind of emergency.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But if you get reimbursed for
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Could possibly be done?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you hear his last
sentence?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: He said possibly.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, he said unless you
declare an emergency.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the other --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's getting pretty close
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- close to emergency as
anything I've seen.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But they're volunteer fire
departments; we don't have any say over what they do. Can't
they haul water if they want to? Or because they're --
MR. EMERSON: I think they're concerned because
they take county money, and technically, they're -- although
they're independent subdivisions, they're kind of an arm of
the county, helping the county fulfill its public protection
needs.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about
non-potable water, obviously?
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly. No, it would have
to be non-potable be for livestock and that sort of thing.
Livestock or toilets, I guess. But drinking water, you can
go buy. But people -- I don't know; it's just -- it came to
my attention, and I thought I would just ask the question.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, it occurs to me that a
lot of these fire departments -- some of them are offering
weekly, some of them maybe more frequently than weekly, have
training exercises.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I like that, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: And --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is he going with
JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think there can never be too
much training for emergency services people.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to practice
delivering water in emergency situations.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, that's -- that's part of being
able to properly respond to a fire, is having enough water
there to handle a fire.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Point A to Point B with water.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. I just feel
like the question needed to be -- I think I knew the answer
as far as the County goes. I don't know that we could ever
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do that. Now, we can do it in an emergency situation with
fires and things like that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The County has in the past
provided access to water. I believe the city, you can buy
water still. I don't know if it's within the city limits.
The reason -- I know there's some -- I know you can go out
there and get some water to buy.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that I heard the
other day that the City has limited people to 100 gallons.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, construction water, that's --
boy, that's really in chaos right now because of this
Stage --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- 2 now? Stage 2 that we're in,
yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, something else --
JUDGE TINLEY: That's a real problem.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- for another time, but we
might want to make some of our water sources -- wells that we
have access to for people in an emergency to be able to
access water.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done that before.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But one, for instance, is the
Mountain Home one; that's a really strong well, puts out
250 gallons a minute, and they've got 16,000 gallons storage,
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so that's --
JUDGE TINLEY: If that's gone down, it can be
replenished real quick.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Real quick also.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Also have a well at the Ag
Barn. It may take some refurbishing.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If we don't get some rain,
we're going to have to maybe, if nothing else, make that
available. Of course, that's not the agenda item, but --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll put that on the next --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We did that -- '03, wasn't
there a drought?
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Item 29. Ms. Hyde,
Ms. Bailey, is that something that is totally going to be in
executive?
MS. BAILEY: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we go to Section 4
of the agenda, payment of the bills.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Section.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the
bills. Question or discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a question. For some
time now, we've been getting this phone log report.
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MS. HARGIS: Yes, that was your request. You do
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want it any more. And
the reason -- I mean, I think it was a useful thing to make
sure we were saving money. It's clear we're saving money
almost across the board, but it appears to me that we're
spending time on this that doesn't need to be spent. So,
it's -- from my standpoint, this no longer is necessary.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think you're right. We --
initially, we determined that it was somewhat around 400 or a
little less a month. Then they changed the way they kept
track of the those minutes and we saw a big spike in the
minutes, and we figured out that they were logging minutes
that they hadn't previously logged, but the cost hadn't
changed. So, we can -- we probably don't have to have your
staff go to that amount of trouble. It's been pretty
consistently 350 to 400 bucks a month, pretty much across the
board. So, it was a good thing to do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. But I do note -- I
mean, our minutes run over the 7,000 minutes, and I don't
know if we need to keep -- I think we need to monitor our
total minute usage. The cost is -- looks good. I mean, it's
generally -- the new phone plan is saving money for pretty
much every department, seems to me, even those that use the
phones a whole lot.
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JUDGE TINLEY: We have a second?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, I seconded it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion?
All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
I hand .
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Budget
amendments. There was quite a number of budget amendments.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A long time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Getting close to the end of the
year. Looks like there's 29 of them. Are we going to go
through them individually, or do I hear a motion to approve
all the amendments as shown on the summary sheet, 1 through
29?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval of all -- 1
through 29.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I have a question, but I
figure you'll get a second first; then I'll have a question.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and second.
Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Discussion is, I see that
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County Jail group insurance amendment for $7,900.
JUDGE TINLEY: Which number?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Shortfall in group insurance.
Why?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't figure the group
insurance part of the budget, so I can't --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know you don't.
MS. HARGIS: I'm sorry, if you'll give me --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's on Page 2; it's Number
14. It's the top line, group insurance on the County Jail.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's coming from.
MS. HARGIS: That's coming from group insurance
line item to the other --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I thought it was coming from
the other two going into that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going to overtime.
MS. HARGIS: It's coming from his group insurance
line item. It's more than they need.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I was wrong.
MS. HARGIS: His overtime is over, and so is his
I maintenance.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other question or discussion on
the budget amendments? All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Caught you, Buster.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries.
MS. HARGIS: Can I make a --
JUDGE TINLEY: Late bills.
MS. HARGIS: No, sir. Can I make a comment
about -- just to make you aware on the budget amendment side?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say no.
MS. HARGIS: We have a very large -- in addition to
our normal -- our defense attorneys, which I'm sure we'll
have at the end, we are running out of money in our Juvenile
Probation Department housing line item. A large sum of
money. It's looking to be around maybe 150,000 that we won't
have, so I just wanted to -- going to make y'all aware that
we may be squeezing from all kinds of line items to get that
I out .
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question.
On that housing issue you just brought up, you said a
shortfall. You're going to have a shortfall of 150,000? Or
there's 150,000 now?
MS. HARGIS: No. We're already in the hole about
$3,200.
25 I COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you're projecting a
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$150,000 shortfall by the end of September?
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
MR. EMERSON: Hate to be the bearer of bad news,
but there's a C.P.S. trial coming up that has eight attorneys
involved that's supposed to last a week to a week and a half,
so that's going to hit you pretty hard.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We better sell the
courthouse.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Sell the jail first, please.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We're going to have a
shortfall in our J.P.'s.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, big time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: J.P.'s what?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Income. Revenue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Three and four,
particularly.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Ours are really down because
the fence went up on Interstate 10.
MS. HARGIS: That's true.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not as many tickets.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you total that amount of
money, that's a total of about -- somewhere between 10,000
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and 15,000 a month. Run that out to the end of the year, and
we're going to be short on that, as well as some -- some
other things, other revenues.
JUDGE TINLEY: Buster, the good news on -- on the
alternative housing for juveniles is that most of that money
is going to come out of the left pocket and go to the right
pocket, 'cause most of that housing money goes to the -- our
own detention facility. Now, that arises as a result of our
juvenile referrals being up about 30 percent over last year
alone. And most of these are new kids, not just the same
children. New offenses. Most of them are new kids.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the question would be,
are his expenses going to exceed his increased revenue from
other counties at the Juvenile Detention Facility?
MS. HARGIS: At the Juvenile Detention Center, we
probably will run out as far as some of his line items this
month. What we plan to do is, he's at -- within $12,000 of
being over revenue, so when he gets the new revenue, I'll
come and ask you to rebudget that revenue, and the expenses
to go along with it. So, yes, he will be.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: But he's going to have sufficient
amount of revenue to carry him. He'll be fine. It's his
food line item and his medical line item that are going over.
JUDGE TINLEY: And medical is mainly a lag,
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because, except as to Kerr County kids, that's reimbursed.
But -- and some of the Kerr County's reimbursed if there's --
there's room in some of the state funds that provide
availability of those funds for medical costs, depending upon
what the cost is.
MS. HARGIS: We are getting some reimbursements
from IV-E on some of the housing and medical there. We're
not getting IV-E money, but we're getting reimbursed; those
sums are coming in. So -- also filled out that paperwork for
unclaimed property; not a lot of money. It's $3,200, but we
had some checks and things out there that I found, and the
Controller sent us a check for $3,200. So, I just wanted
y'all to know about the shortfall we might have there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've also been presented with
monthly reports from Constable, Precinct 1; County Clerk;
Justice of the Peace, Precinct 3; Constable, Precinct 4;
Justice of the Peace, Precinct 4; Environmental Health;
Justice of the Peace, Precinct 2; Justice of the Peace,
Precinct 1; Road and Bridge; and Kerr County payroll expenses
for June 2009. Do I hear a motion that these reports be
approved as presented?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the
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discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move
to Section 5, reports from Commissioners in connection with
their liaison or committee assignments. Commissioner
Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I've resigned all that
stuff.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm good, Judge. Nothing,
Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to set a
workshop on this ETJ stuff, and looking at my calendar -- I
don't think it will take all that long. Why don't we do it
at 1:30 on the 22nd?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. I thought
Gordon said that was -- we're going to talk about this at our
meeting.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But we need to have a -- I
I think a --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Us?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, just us.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just us.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When are you suggesting?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1:30 on the 22nd, which is 30
minutes before our budget workshop, which gives us a
30-minute period to get it done. And I don't think it's
going to really take that long. I'll have appropriate maps
at that time so we can look at different stuff. I think we
can redraw their map -- or their proposed map pretty quickly,
and at the same time, Rex can look at the copy of the
agreement with Mike Hayes. Did you get a copy, Rex, of the
agreement? See what he thinks of the agreement.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're proposing 1:30?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. That way we can get it
done.
JUDGE TINLEY: Works for me.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll do my best to be here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler, do you have
~ anything?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll leave it alone.
JUDGE TINLEY: Elected officials? Department
I heads?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Real quick, two things. One,
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unfortunately, you know, Judge, we have had another lawsuit
filed against the County, an inmate issue. I don't see any
issues with it. It's going through the channels now. It's
been given to Rex, turned over to TAC so the attorneys can
start dealing with it. Three inmates in a tank that got into
an altercation.
MR. EMERSON: Why don't you talk about the details
in executive?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, it's just an altercation
that ended up in a lawsuit to us. I don't have a problem
with it. But the other deal is, I may bring to y'all during
the budget contracting out meal service, because I had a -- a
company that is known, does do it for Dallas and a lot of
other places, offer us a bid that only charges per meal. You
don't pay for anything but the meal through their employees,
through some of ours. And, actually, their meal cost, from
what their bid was that they gave me, is about 5 cents a meal
cheaper than what we're cooking it for now ourselves. So,
come budget, I may seriously start looking at that for the
jail .
JUDGE TINLEY: They just come in and occupy your
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They occupy the kitchen, they
hire the employees, kind of like the medical contract has
done. They use our trustees, and we have the say-so with the
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employees, of course, total say-so with who they actually
hire. But they only charge you on the meals served, not the
surplus food or any of that kind of stuff. And since they do
it all over the state, they buy it in bulk and ship it in
bulk with their own people, and it's all dietitian-approved;
it's all, you know, counting calories and --
JUDGE TINLEY: Diets to meet the needs of all your
inmates, as required by the commission and so forth?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's -- just rough; I'm sure
you've done the calculations. What does 5 cents a meal save
you?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I haven't done that type
of -- but when you're figuring we're serving 200,000 meals a
year --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? It can add up pretty
quick. And that's a ballpark, 5 cents. It may have been a
little more, but it may be worth looking at, trying it for a
year or two, and if it doesn't work out, we go back to
cooking our own. May be better, okay?
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
'~, COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I got one quickly.
I forgot. There is a meeting I'll be attending on Thursday
at 10:30 at TexDOT talking about the construction schedule
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which will soon get underway for the 1350 bridge on
Government Crossing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also, Judge, the -- I think
everyone got an invitation to this Friday, the meeting at
Kendall County. They did a -- Hill Country County Coalition
group kind of, I think, is going to give kind of a summary of
what didn't happen at the legislative session, and then where
we go from here, and kind of a thank you to some legislators
and other groups that helped. Lunch is being served.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where is that going to be,
the place on the hill?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Top of the hill.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 11 o'clock?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's 11:00, with lunch
at 11:30, something like that. It's a relatively short
business meeting followed by more, I guess, gathering.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Have y'all called in --
called that old gal, that lady?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Pepper. I have.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: She called me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She calls you every five
minutes. Are you going to call her?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I already told her I'd
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probably be there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, then, Bill. You
don't have to yell.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't know you were
interested.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's all right, I'll call
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Jody might call her for you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe Jody can do it for
you.
JUDGE TINLEY: I've already given Jody a message to
check with me.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pepper -- call Pepper.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: I have one other thing. We did send
out an e-mail to everybody on the Legislature. The auditor's
group sent me all the bills that have been approved, and we
sent those out to all of you so that you could look at those,
and we tried to divide them up by department the best that we
could so that they'd have an opportunity. It's a lot to keep
up with. So, if there's anything, we have a hard copy of
some of it. If you'd like to have it, we can provide it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, appreciate it. Any other
elected officials? Department heads?
MR. EMERSON: Just under executive session when we
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get there, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm looking at you.
MS. HYDE: I'm keeping my mouth shut. It's 5 after
3:00.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, okay. You don't want to work on
frayed nerves?
MS. HYDE: No, I got to go see Dr. Neely, so I
don't want to be like -- oh.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other reports? Anything
else? Any other business? We're adjourned -- no, excuse me.
MS. HYDE: Oh.
!, JUDGE TINLEY: Let me recall that. Hold the phone.
', You've got me into a "break out of here" mode. I'll blame it
on you, for lack of a better scapegoat.
II MS. HYDE: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll go out of open or public
session at this time to go into executive or closed session
to consider Item 29. So, at this time, we're out of public
or open session.
(The open session was closed at 3:04 p.m., and an
executive session was held, the transcript of which
is contained in a separate document.)
', JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, it is 3:22, and we will now go
back into open or public session. Any member of the Court
have anything to offer as a result of matters considered in
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closed or executive session?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Further question or discussion on that motion?
All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
I hand .
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Anything
further, gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jody, you missed it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Now Eva wants to talk.
MS. HYDE: Just don't forget Wednesday, if anyone
is wanting to come to the safety meeting, we have a safety
meeting Wednesday afternoon.
JUDGE TINLEY: Wednesday afternoon, safety meeting.
MS. HYDE: 2 o'clock. Of course, you're on the
committee, but if any of the other gentlemen would like to
attend, they're more than welcome.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Are you saying that we need
to be made aware of how to be safe?
MS. HYDE: No, just you're more than welcome.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or training.
MS. HYDE: You're just more than welcome.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm leaving.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Anything further, gentlemen?
We will be adjourned.
(Commissioners Court was adjourned at 3:25 p.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS ~
COUNTY OF KERR ~
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 20th day of July, 2009.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y : ___ __ __ .. ~ _ _________ _
_~
Kathy ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
7-13-09
ORDER NO. 31346
KERB COUNTY INDIGENT HEALTH CARE POLICY
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a
vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the updated Kerr County Indigent Health Care Policy, as proposed and
amended, effective September 1, 2009.
ORDER NO. 31347
APPOINTMENT OF ELECTION JUDGES AND ALTERNATES
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve appointment of Election Judges and Alternates for the term of one (1) year in
accordance with the Texas Election Code Section 32.
ORDER NO. 31348
CONSOLIDATING POLLING LOCATIONS FOR NOVEMBER, 2009 ELECTION
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve consolidation of the polling locations in accordance with Chapter 43 of the
Texas Election Code for the November, 2009 Constitutional Amendment Election:
Precinct 1	River Hills Mall
Precinct 2	Union Church
Precinct 3	Kerr County Courthouse
Precinct 4	Ingram Presbyterian Church
Early Voting	Cailloux Center
ORDER NO. 31349
GRAND COMMANDERY OF TEXAS, KNIGHTS TEMPLAR, USE OF PARKING
LOT AT HILL COUNTRY YOUTH EXHIBIT CENTER
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve the use of the parking lot at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center (HCYEC) by
Grand Commandery of Texas, Knights Templar, for $200 on April 16`h and 17th, 2010.
ORDER NO. 31350
SURPLUS INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY EQUIPMENT
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve declaring the list of Information Technology Equipment as surplus.
ORDER NO. 31351
ENGAGEMENT LETTER ON FISCAL YEAR 2009 AUDIT WITH NEFFENDORF,
KNOPP, DOSS & CO., P.C.
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve Engagement letter on Fiscal Year 2009 Audit by Neffendorf, Knopp, Doss &
Co., P.C., Certified Public Accountants.
ORDER NO. 31352
CONTRACT FOR INVESTMENT ADVISORY SERVICES
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve one year Contract for Investment Advisory Services with Patterson &
Associates.
ORDER NO. 31353
PURCHASE OF RBU121 CATERPILLAR 420D BACKHOE
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote
of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the purchase of an RBU121 Caterpillar 420D Backhoe for $21,000.00, with the
funds to come from the Road & Bridge Department line item 15-611-553.
ORDER NO. 31354
"NO PARKING" SIGNS AT BRINK'S CROSSING AND AT WALTONIA
CROSSING
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote
of 4-0-0 to:
Approve installing four "No Parking" signs at Brink's Crossing on Center Point River
Road in Precinct 2, and also installing four "No Parking" signs at Waltonia Crossing on
Kelly Creek Road in Precinct 4.
ORDER NO. 31355
FINAL REVISION OF PLAT FOR HEADWATERS RANCH PHASE III, RELEASE
LETTER OF CREDIT AND ACCEPT MAINTENANCE BOND
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve Final Revision of Plat for Headwaters Ranch Phase III, Release the Letter of
Credit in the amount of $508,446.00 for Phases I, II and III, and accept the Maintenance
Bond in the amount of $152,533.80 for one year for Phases I, II and III, located in
Precinct 4.
ORDER NO. 31356
2010 KERB CENTRAL APPRAISAL DISTRICT OPERATING BUDGET
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
3-1-0 to: (Commissioners Baldwin, Williams and Letz voted aye, Commissioner Oehler
voted nay)
Approve the 2010 Kerr Central Appraisal District Operating Budget.
ORDER NO. 31357
CHANGE OF JAILER POSITION TO CLERK POSITION AT THE KERR COUNTY
JAIL
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioners Baldwin/Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a
vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve eliminating apart-time Jailer position and approving afull-time Clerk position
in the Kerr County Jail, effective August 1, 2009.
ORDER NO. 31358
TEEN CURFEW
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve renewal of the Kerr County Teen Curfew for another year.
ORDER N0.31359
UNCLAIMED CAPITAL CREDITS FROM ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve requesting Unclaimed Capital Credits received from Electric Cooperative
Pursuant to Section 74.602 of the Texas Property Code, from the Texas Comptroller of
Public Accounts, and authorize County Judge to prepare Letter of Request.
ORDER NO. 31360
RESOLUTION IN OPPOSITION TO CLEAN WATER RESTORATION ACT
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve Resolution in Opposition to Clean Water Restoration Act.
ORDER NO. 31361
DESIGN OF BUILDING FOR ADULT PROBATION, ELEMENTS OF KERR
COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE AND/OR OTHERS
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote
of 4-0-0 to:
Approve obtaining assistance from architect(s), designer(s) and/or planner(s), including
the County Surveyor, for the layout and design of building to house Adult Probation,
elements of Kerr County Sheriff's Office and/or others, and to determine the legal
boundaries, with the cost not to exceed $6,000.00.
ORDER NO. 31362
AMENDMENT TO LEASE FOR THAD M. ZIEGLER BUILDING FOR ADULT
PROBATION DEPARTMENT
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a
vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve a one (1) year Lease, with two (2) consecutive one (1) year renewal options,
with a bailout clause at the end of six (6) months in the first year, giving a 45 day notice
and paying one (1) month rental penalty.
ORDER NO. 31363
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, came to be considered by the Court
various Commissioners Precincts, which said Claims and Accounts are:
Accounts Expense
10-General	$	237,886.99
15-Road & Bridge	$	49,294.77
18-County Law Library	$	5,883.80
21-Title IV-E	$	1,358.75
28-Records Mgmt & Preserv	$	880.41
31-Parks	$	450.25
33-District Records Mgmt	$	2,125.00
50-Indigent Health Care	$	32,730.14
76-Juv Detention Facility	$	17,738.62
83-216t" District Attorney	$	1,581.33
86-216' CSCD	$	3,181.78
87-Community Service	$	5,985.33
TOTAL $ 359,097.17
Upon motion made by Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the
Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to pay the claims and accounts.
ORDER NO. 31364
BUDGET AMENDMENT NOS. 1-29
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve paying all of the Budget Amendments as presented on the summary sheet.
ORDER NO. 31365
MONTHLY REPORTS
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote
of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Monthly Reports from:
Constable Pct # 1
County Clerk
JP #3
Constable Pct #4
JP #4
Environmental Health
JP #2
JP # 1
Road & Bridge
Kerr County Payroll Expenses for June, 2009
ORDER NO. 31366
EEOC PERSONNEL ISSUE
Came to be heard this the 13th day of July, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of
4-0-0 to:
Approve the confidential mediation settlement for EEOC Case #846-2009-28967.