1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Regular Session
Monday, May 11, 2009
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4

.~
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
2
	I N D E X	
	May 11, 2009	
		PAGE
---	Commissioners' Comments	5
1.1	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on	
	request from Heart of the Hills Barrel Racing,	
	a 501(c)(7) organization, to be added to the	
	nonprofit list for reduced rate at HCYEC	8
1.2	Presentation on Texas Fleet Fuel's fuel cost	
	management program	11
1.3	Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the	
	submission by Kerr County Juvenile Probation	
	for American Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009;	
	Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Formula	
	Grant Program funding for FY 2009-2010	33
1.4	Inform the Court that District and County Courts	
	have been approved for e-filing from Supreme Court	
	of Texas	39
1.5	Consider/discuss, approve rental agreement with	
	Ikon for two Ricoh MP 5000 copy machines;	
	authorize County Judge to sign same	39
1.6	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on bid	
	made by City of Kerrville for property currently	
	held in trust by Kerr County	41
1.7	First Responder Report from Eric Maloney	42
1.8	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action for	
	acceptance of Final Plat for Francisco's Place	55
1.9	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to set	
	public hearing for revision of plat for Tracts 8,	
	9 and 10 of Kerrville Ranchettes	56
1.10	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to name	
	a private road Fossil Ridge Rd. per 911 guidelines	57
1.11	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on	
	implementation of the burn ban	58
1.12	Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on	
	amendment to lease for the Thad M. Ziegler	
	Building which is currently being used for	
	Adult Probation Department	59
3
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I N D E X (Continued)
May 11, 2009
1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
close Riverside Drive from Texas Arts & Crafts
west property line to KCYEC east property line
on May 22, 2009, from 5 p.m. until 11 p.m.
1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
vacate Lots 216-222 in Center Point Estates,
Unit II; set public hearing if required
1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
modify Kerr County Information Technology policy,
Court Order #28680, Dated June 14, 2004
1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
adopt resolution commending retiring Airport
Board President Roger Bobertz for his years of
service on the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport
Board of Directors
1.17 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
regarding whether or not to allow non-certified
burn managers to perform prescribed burns during
a burn ban
1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to adopt
	a resolution opposing the "	Blair Holts" Firearm
	Licensing and Record Act of	2009
1.19	Consider/discuss, take appr	opriate action on
	authorizing a Commissioner	or County Judge to
	represent the County at Cit	y Council meetings
	concerning any agenda item	relating to funding
	of airport capital projects	or EIC
4.1	Pay Bills	
4.2	Budget Amendments	
4.3	Late Bills	
4.4	Approve and Accept Monthly	Reports
5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee
Assignments
5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads
--- Adjourned
PAGE
65
67
79
113
115
122
124
134
137
138
141
145
145
4
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
On Monday, May 11, 2009, at 9:00 a.m., a regular
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in
the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
(Commissioner Letz was not present.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Let me call to order this regular meeting of the Kerr County
Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this date and
time, Monday, May 11, 2009, at 9 a.m. It is that time now.
Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Please stand for a word of
prayer and followed by the pledge of allegiance.
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's
any member of the audience or the public that wishes to be
heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is
your opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your
mind. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would
ask that you fill out a participation form. There should be
some located at the rear of the room. If -- if, for some
reason, you haven't filled out a participation form and
desire to be heard on an agenda item, get my attention in
some manner at -- at the time that item is called, and we'll
5-11-09
5
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
see that you have the opportunity to be heard. But by
filling out the participation form, it helps me to know that
there's someone that wishes to be recognized and heard on
that item. But right now, if there's any member of the
public or the audience that wishes to be heard on any matter
that is not a listed agenda item, we'd ask that you come
forward now. Seeing no one coming forward, we will move on.
Commissioner Oehler, what do you have for us this morning?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I was informed last week that
the burn ban signs that we approved Road and Bridge to
purchase for basically other homeowners' associations and
things, to put the signs up at their entrances and be posted
in several places around the county, are in. So that people
wishing to purchase those can go to Road and Bridge and they
can -- they can go from there. They'll give them some
options of the way they can have those and the way they
should be posted, and also Road and Bridge will install them.
And it's probably best if they do, so that they're set
properly and that they kind of match all of our other signs.
Another thing is, I understand that the Auditor's contract is
up, and the District Judges are going to be -- if not already
have renewed that. If anybody has any comments to make, good
or bad, I feel like we need to do that to the judges before
they sign this contract with our Auditor for another two
years.
5-11-09
6
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: What's the term of that contract?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Two years, it runs.
JUDGE TINLEY: When does it commence?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: June. June 1, from what I
understand after talking to Karl Prohl the other day.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But otherwise, we don't
really have any input. They're the ones that do it. And I'd
encourage anybody that has anything to say about it to make
it known. That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was just going to ask the
Commissioner a question. On the burn ban signs, Bruce, are
we going to put them on roadways coming into Kerr County?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we're going to put
them in a couple locations. I don't think we've decided
exactly where yet, but I think Road and Bridge will decide
where. One thing is, they're going to have to be changed to
reflect what the burn ban is at this particular time, so it's
going to take a little bit of coordination and remembering
that whenever we modify that, well, somebody has to change
it. And the subdivision that contacted me is going to do
their own and be responsible for reflecting what the status
of the burn ban is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin?
5-11-09
7
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I just wanted to
remind everyone about this coming Thursday, May 14th, and
we're having dinner on the grounds, and that would be 12 noon
to 1 o'clock. And, again, what we're doing is just trying to
get the entire community of Kerr County that -- which
includes west Kerr County, and we'd like the old-timers to
come in and break bread with us and -- and their neighbors,
and just have a good time. Just a good time. By the way,
I've invited the City Council. I did not invite the new
elected official, but we'll get to that later today somehow,
and so that's this coming Thursday, 12 noon to 1 o'clock, out
on the front lawn. Be there or be square. Hear, hear.
~ Amen.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bring our own food, right?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bring your own food. And
water.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And water.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And whatever else you --
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just congratulations to the
newly elected City Council people, Mr. Motheral and
Ms. Keeble. Look forward to working with them in the future.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else?
5-11-09
8
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: I, too, extend my congratulations to
those two individuals who prevailed in the city elections,
and we've got a lot of City/County business to -- to work on,
and I'll look forward to working with those two, as well as
all the remainder on the City Council and the new City
Manager. Let's get on with our agenda, if we might.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I would like to say
one thing about -- Commissioner Letz had called and has
business down in Boerne for a little while, and then he will
come directly here.
JUDGE TINLEY: My information was that he should be
here somewhere 10:00 to 10:30.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. First item on the agenda is
to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on a
request from Heart of the Hills Barrel Racing, a 501(c)(7)
organization, to be added to the nonprofit list for the
reduced rate at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center.
Mr. Steve Wetz is here. Mr. Wetz?
MR. WETZ: Good morning. Thank you for seeing us
this morning. My understanding, the last bit of information
that we needed to supply to y'all would be the copy of a
donation for scholarship that we presented to the Kerrville
4-H club. And I have copies of a check and receipt.
5-11-09
9
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Fantastic.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you.
MR. WETZ: And that is the -- the money that y'all
requested that they submit to the -- to a nonprofit
organization for scholarships here in Kerr County. And is
there any -- I'm kind of new to what's going on here. I just
got sent as a representative this morning to make sure that
there wasn't any other questions that y'all had that needed
to be answered, so y'all can make a decision and put this to
bed.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any more
questions. You've met what I desired to see, and so I'm
happy with it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this -- is this going to
be a $250 scholarship or a $500 -- I noticed before when
Ms. Hyatt came, she talked about using 500 for a scholarship.
Is this a down payment on it, or is this it?
MR. WETZ: To my understanding, that was it. Now,
if there needs to be some additional funding, then we just --
that needs to be discussed.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, any scholarship is a
good scholarship.
MR. WETZ: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Wetz, I assume that this
scholarship program that the association is initiating here
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
10
is something that's going to be an ongoing effort on their
part, as opposed to just a one-time --
MR. WETZ: Sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- situation for the purpose of
qualifying here?
MR. WETZ: Sure. No, it's my understanding that
y'all wish for this to happen to be able to maintain that
nonprofit status, and I think as long as they can use the
nonprofit status, they'll continue to make that yearly
donation. So --
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Thank you, sir. Any
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for -- I move that we
approve the Heart of the Hills Barrel Racing organization to
be added to the nonprofit list for a reduced rate at the Hill
Country Youth Exhibit Center.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second.
Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you
5-11-09
11
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. WETZ: Thank y'all very much for taking the
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to the second item, a
presentation on Texas Fleet Fuel's fuel cost management
program. Mr. Williams? If you'll give us your name and
address and tell us who you're with, why, we'd appreciate it.
', MR. WILLIAMS: Well, my name is William "Bill"
Williams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Great name. (Laughter.)
MR. WILLIAMS: And that's the truth. I've never
~ been able to talk to myself before at any meeting I've been
to, but I'm going to try it out this morning. (Laughter.)
I'm with Texas Fleet Fuel out of Austin, Texas.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do you want to keep one?
MR. WILLIAMS: And what we are, we are a management
program for fuel that we sell to businesses, both commercial
and governmental businesses. My particular job with the
company is government businesses that we sell to. Let me
give you a little bit of insight on Texas Fleet Fuel. We
have 75 years of experience in the business of petroleum;
diesel, gasoline, and alternate fuels, propane. We're
located in Austin, Texas. We also have the license program
for the Fuelman program that's all nationwide, nearly in the
50 states, and we have the capability of supplying fuel to
~, you through Texas Fleet Fuel into these 50 states. You can
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
12
get fuel and still be billed and handled directly with us out
of Austin, Texas, with a good old computer system. Easy to
do today, I guess. Are you familiar with the Fuelman
program? Have you heard of Fuelman before?
JUDGE TINLEY: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No.
MR. WILLIAMS: Okay. Fuelman is a card system
operated out of Atlanta, Georgia. It started about 35, 40
years ago, and believe it or not, it originated in New
Orleans, Louisiana. All the oil companies was down there, I
guess, in a meeting, and they was discussing what they could
do to enable people like yourselves to buy fuel directly from
them at a wholesale price. And over the 40 years, it's
progressed and changed and progressed and changed until it
finally got defined, I guess, and the ten years I've been
here, it's been a very successful business. What we do, we
supply fuel, both on-site and off-site. And I believe you
all do both; am I right? I'm going to start the on-site fuel
first.
On-site fuel, we supply the fuel to your tanks on
consignment. We put our card readers on the tanks that
monitors every gallon of fuel that you get, and we monitor
~' this fuel. We give to you a detailed report every Monday
morning, every Monday -- every month, every quarter, and
annually of each and every transaction, each and every
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
13
vehicle that the fuel goes to, the person's name in your
organization that put the fuel in there, the time and date
the fuel went in there, your cost, your mileage. Everything
that you're looking for in the report is in this report. It
tells you the prices that you pay for the fuel. You're
paying 20 cents taxes, unless you -- it's off-road, and
sometimes it's -- it's -- if you use our off-road card, which
I'll get into later, it's tax-free. We put the fuel in
there. We supply the cards to operate this system with, and
the same cards that we use in there can be used to get fuel
at service stations -- 85,000 service stations throughout the
whole United States.
In the report, it designates where you got the
fuel. If you got it on-site on your own premises or you
bought it at a service station, it will tell you where that
fuel was purchased at. In doing this, the card system -- if
you look in front of your book, you will see a card that we
use. Each vehicle that you have has a card, and that's to
give you a complete reporting of each and every vehicle that
you have. The white card is a pin card that we give to each
person in your organization that you authorize to buy fuel.
You have to use both of those cards to get fuel. You go up
to the tank, you -- the card readers belong to us, both
inside and outside, but in this particular instance, we're
talking about on-site. You just go up to our card reader.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
14
We maintain this card reader; there's no cost for this card
reader. Lightning strikes it, we replace it. If you run
over it with a bulldozer, we'll have to talk a little bit,
though. (Laughter.)
But you just put your card in and follow the
instructions. It will say put in your pin number. It'll say
enter your odometer reading of your vehicle. Sixty seconds,
you're gone. Through a dedicated phone line is the only cost
that you have in this system, other than the tank. It takes
this message directly to our office in Austin, Texas, and it
records in your memory bank all the transactions of that
particular purchase. And on Monday morning, the good old
computer spits it out, sends it back to you in a form, which
if you look in the book that I gave you, it shows you the
form that we use and how it comes in to you, and it keeps it
in there on a monthly basis and a quarterly basis and an
annual basis. And there's no cost for this service, either.
As a matter of fact, you're out nothing except a dedicated
phone line hooked up directly to us.
You only pay for the fuel that comes out of the
tank. No matter what problems may be there, the fuel belongs
to us until you use it. There's no evaporation problems that
you have with it. There's no additional cost you have. You
pay for exactly what you draw out of the tank. If you're not
using any fuel, it's not costing you anything. If we cannot
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
15
save you money and make your purchasing of fuel more
adaptable more easily, we have no business being here. But
if you look into our book there I gave to you, in the back, a
lot of references that we have. When we sell to counties and
cities and schools like yours, and you see this, you see how
many of them we sell to in the central Texas area.
Basically, our area runs from Waco to San Antonio, and -- but
this is about as far west as we go, and then east, we go to
Giddings. Other franchise units serve the other areas, but
it doesn't mean you can't go into there and get fuel.
Now, on the service station, the cards that you
have will work at the service station. You just go up to the
service stations -- those cards readers belong to us. If
they're inside -- not -- a lot of them is pay at the pump, so
you just go up to the pump, swipe your card and follow the
instructions the same way you would on off-site. Through the
same system, your transaction is immediately sent to your
memory bank in Austin. It is recorded and sent back to you
every Monday morning. You have a seven-day turnaround on
information. I don't believe there's any other card company
that can do this but us. They can do it on a monthly basis.
Far as I know, we're the only ones that can -- that do it on
a weekly basis.
This is good for you, because if you have a
problem, you have a question, it's within seven days, and
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
16
that's good, because so much can happen in the fuel business
as you see now. Pricing is predicated on the use of the
OPIS, Oil Price and Information Services. This is the entity
that puts out the prices from the oil companies every
Thursday morning at 9 o'clock. Oil companies do not put out
a price list under their own name. They never have. So, Oil
Pricing and Information Services is the entity supplied by
the oil companies, and I'm sure they give them prices to put
in there. There's nine oil companies, and if you look in
your book, you'll see a copy of this price sheet. It comes
out every Thursday morning. We go by that price on gasoline
and diesel, at the low rack price. The reason we can go by
the low rack price, because that's the lowest price the oil
companies have, is because of the magnitude of fuel that we
sell. We sell in excess of over two billion gallons of fuel
a year. Sounds like a lot of fuel, but it's a small portion
of what's used.
They take this price. We add your tax to it. Your
tax is 20 cents a gallon. The tax on gasoline is 39 cents a
gallon, and diesel is 44 and a half cents a gallon, but you
only pay 20 cents a gallon because of your government
affiliation. We add that price to it and we add our markup
to that, and that's what you pay us. You do business
directly with us, Texas Fleet Fuel. We invoice you. We have
customer service. We take care of your account, we give you
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
17
the reporting, we furnish you the fuel, we furnish everything
that you need. It makes it a lot easier for you. It reduces
man hours for your -- handling your fuel. There's no cost.
You have no purchasing problems with fuel. You don't have to
do state tax, you don't have to inventory fuel, you don't
have nothing to do. We do it all for you. You can be gone
on vacation and come in, and if you look at this report, you
can tell everything that's gone on in your fleet fuel. We
supply the fuel ourselves. We bring it in to you on-site
from the pipeline in Austin, Texas, San Antonio, Waco, and
Hearne, Texas. We back up to it with our trucks and fill it
up and bring it to you. It does not go into any storage
tanks. You have no problems with moisture. You have no --
it's as clean as you can get fuel.
Service stations, they supply the fuel themselves.
We pay the service station so much money for putting the fuel
into our customers' vehicles. We invoice you for the fuel.
They don't even know how much you're paying. The price at
the pump does not mean nothing to you, except if you want to
just see how much money you're saving by doing business with
Texas Fleet Fuel. Fuelman, it is a good program. If I was
in here talking to you about it, I would tell you how it's
the best program out there to supply fuel to companies like
yours, and I believe if you'll look at the references we
have, we have a lot of them, you know, because we sell to
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
18
almost every county in central Texas. You're welcome to call
these companies for references. If any of them gives you a
bad name, let me know and I'll cut them off. (Laughter.)
But I'm sure you won't have that problem. They like us quite
well. No one ever leaves us that goes with this program.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. Is the cost per
gallon the same delivered to our tank as it is purchased from
someone else's tank?
MR. WILLIAMS: It's the lower price to your tank.
Now, there's a little -- we may have a problem; I don't know.
The minimum cost for setting up an on-site fueling system,
the card reader alone is $7,500, okay? Plus our cost for
installation, our monitoring, maintaining this card reader,
and then we fill up your tank with fuel on consignment. So
we have to look, in order to be really competitive with you
in that area, at a usage of 100,000 gallons of fuel a year.
Now, that may not be a lot of fuel to you. You know, I don't
know if it is or not. If you're buying both places, I'm
going to tell you, you know, my experience in -- in the fuel
business is that, you know, you can really and truly use the
Fuelman program. You can buy fuel at a service station
cheaper than you can inventory your fuel.
When I first joined this company, Shell Oil hired
me and put me in here because Shell Oil is one of the primary
stockholders of the Fuelman program. I went to the National
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
19
Petroleum Institute down in Houston. I said, "Please tell me
what it costs, extra costs for on-site fueling," and they
gave me a report I didn't like, and they said, "Well, go to
New York." So, I went to New York, got an identical report.
Well, what it is, the national average cost for on-site
fueling above what you pay for fuel is 12 and a half percent.
I know you're going to faint when I say that. I did the same
thing. Twelve and a half percent of $2 a gallon is a lot of
extra money, okay? So I said, "Please tell me why -- where
this 12 and a half percent comes from." Three percent is
evaporation. Another 3 percent is not accounted for, but I
hate to stand here and tell you guys right now that 99 times
out of 100, it never was put in your tank to begin with.
The rest of it is cost for sticking fuel, ordering
fuel, to maintenance on the -- your card reader, everything
else involved in handling it, okay? And if you stop and you
just think about this, you know, it's realistic. It's really
realistic. You can go to a service station for about one or
two cents a gallon more and get fuel and let them worry about
everything. You don't have the environmental program to
worry about with the state. And I'm not here trying to tell
you what you should do, you know -- to try to, you know, tell
you the difference between the two. If it's possible you can
do this -- and in your instance, maybe it's not, because I
i know you got your districts separated into four, and they're
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
20
all in a different location, and you may have to have fuel --
you don't?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, sort of.
MR. WILLIAMS: Is it possible you could have a
central location for fuel? That would --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Possible.
MR. WILLIAMS: That would take care of all the
~ problems.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We don't have it right now.
MR. WILLIAMS: Pardon, sir?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It would be possible, but
we don't have it right now. We have to fuel all our
vehicles --
MR. WILLIAMS: A lot of them are doing this. They
had like you had, you know, and then they centralized this
into one great tank, one system. And they use 100-gallon
tanks on the back of their pickups for taking fuel out to
their equipment. Now, if you can do this, it's a tremendous
savings to you, let me tell you. Tremendous savings. And
we're not talking about just peanuts either, guys. You know,
it's -- it's a lot of money. As I told you a while ago, you
know, about the fuel, about this 12 and a half percent, with
Fuelman, you can wipe all this out, you know, because we put
the fuel on consignment. It's our problem. We don't -- if
it's 25 percent evaporation, that's our problem, not yours,
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
21
okay? We monitor through the telephone line; it tells us
when to bring more fuel out there. You know, it tells us
each and every transaction. It gives us all the information
that you need to monitor your own purchasing system.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Kelly, do we have fuel in any
other locations? We just have it up at --
MS. HOFFER: No, we have it in Kerrville; we have
some in Center Point, small tanks, and we have some in
Ingram, small tanks.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I knew we had some in Ingram.
I just didn't know about the other places.
MR. WILLIAMS: Do you have an idea how much fuel
you're using a year? Just take diesel.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Auditor might be able
I to tell us.
MS. HARGIS: No, I don't know how much fuel.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have how much in your
budget, Rusty? How many dollars did we figure this last
year?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd have to look. It was
close to 100,000, ninety to a hundred thousand.
MR. WILLIAMS: So you're right in that category.
I'm going to --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I average about 6,000 -- five
to six thousand a month, but that's all off-site. None of
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
22
'! that's on-site.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Sheriff's Department
normally uses more than any other department in the county.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it is time we bid it.
MR. WILLIAMS: I wouldn't inventory gasoline. I'm
going to tell you the truth, I wouldn't do it. Too many
service stations, it's too easy to get fuel, it's too
economical to get fuel. And unless you're using a tremendous
amount of gasoline -- and no one else are, I'm going to tell
you. They're getting away from it. They're buying gasoline
at service stations, inventorying the diesel. The diesel is
not that volatile.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I would look at,
it is time that we bid our fuel this coming year, 'cause we
haven't in a couple years. I need to do a bid on it. We
have three locations in town we get it. I saw with their
stuff, we can get it all over, but we do need to bid it, and
it's so many cents above whatever the wholesale cost is, is
the way it is now. And we just have to look and see where
', the bids come in.
MR. WILLIAMS: I believe if you look in your book
there, I put a directory.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMS: If you look under the alphabetical
order from the front to the back, under Kerrville, you see --
5-11-09
23
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
I believe we got six stations here.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I saw, yeah.
MR. WILLIAMS: Plus we got stations all over; you
~~ can get fuel wherever you -- your cars are located, and it
makes it a lot easier, because you don't have to worry about
it. You're doing business directly with us. Your price is
the same.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Do we get the same report
weekly and monthly from y'all using regular service stations
that you talked about using on-site?
MR. WILLIAMS: I don't know what kind of report
they give you, okay? Our report is -- a copy of it's in this
book that I gave you, okay? And it is more detailed than any
of them, okay, I'm going to tell you right now.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The question I had is, am I
going to -- even though I'm using a service station, I'm
still using your card, okay? Whether it's Town and Country
or the other ones you have, am I going to get the same report
from y'all that I would get if I had on-site fuel?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, you will.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Will I get it every Monday?
MR. WILLIAMS: Identical. You get an identical
report. It'll just show you the difference. You either got
the fuel on-site or both places; you can show it both places.
You can get fuel both places if you want to. It will show up
5-11-09
24
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
on this report, exactly the service station you got the fuel
from, the time, date you got the fuel, the person that you
have working for you that put the fuel in your respective
vehicle, even the miles per gallon. Now, you're going to
say, "Well, what does the miles per gallon got to do with
it?" Okay. Well, if you look at --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I get that now. It has a lot
to do with it.
MR. WILLIAMS: If you look at the report and that
miles per gallon on a vehicle, if it varies from week to
week, you got one of three things can be wrong. He entered
the wrong odometer reading, which you can catch in seven
days. You need maintenance on the vehicle, which you're glad
to know. And I know you don't have it, but, gentlemen, I'm
going to tell you, a lot of people have been surprised;
somebody will use your fuel. Simple as that, okay? And
seven-day check. Seven-day check.
MS. HARGIS: Rusty's budget is 179,000.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: And -- and I think the system that --
after reviewing it -- I haven't looked at those books. If
you'll look at them, it's very similar to that -- that
Texas -- the credit card that we got that you can check
online, and it is by vehicle. I think there's copies of
those reports; he showed those to me. About a month ago, I
5-11-09
25
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
-- I looked at them. But the main thing that I think the
savings here would be if we -- I'd look for us to investigate
it, would be off-site. Our biggest problems we have right
now is, like, the ag people, the detention service, all the
guys that leave the city of Kerrville. We can't get Maxey
Energy, so that's where our cost goes up. This would be
wherever we go, we would have the same cost, which would
bring our cost down. 'Cause we do a lot of picking up of
prisoners and -- both from the detention center and from the
Sheriff's Office, and then the ag people use it a lot. We
pay pretty heavy for that gas when they travel all over for
those shows, so it's something for us to think about. And
you get a credit card for any station when you're out of
town.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only other question on the
report is, will it break down and say -- because if the
County uses it, yes, you got the ag people using it, you got
Juvenile Detention, Road and Bridge, and you got the
Sheriff's Office. Sheriff's Office is going to get its own
weekly or monthly report?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes, we break it down into
departments for you, any way you want it, okay? You don't
have to go through looking for a particular one. If the
Sheriff's Department -- Sheriff's Department will have their
separate report. Road and Bridge will have their separate
5-11-09
26
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
report. Water Department will have their separate report.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just recommend we bid our
fuel this year and see how they come out. It's got to be bid
'cause of the amount we use, and we haven't bid it and we
need to.
MR. WILLIAMS: We participate with the purchasing
concern over in Houston, Texas, you know, that's --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, so you're part of the
Houston-Galveston --
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes. And you don't really
have to go out --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You already have the state bid
I on it .
MR. WILLIAMS: Right, that's correct.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's just like our patrol
vehicles; we don't have to bid them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what you're saying is
that we could actually -- if we go with your program, we can
get the cards for various departments, they can fill up
anywhere, any service station that's approved, --
MR. WILLIAMS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- and at a reduced price
over what we're paying now?
MR. WILLIAMS: Wholesale price. We're the only
5-11-09
27
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, what I'm looking at here,
looks like there could be 10 or 15 cents a gallon difference;
i, is that correct? Or am I seeing things?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No.
MR. WILLIAMS: The mark-up -- the mark-up Friday
between the OPIS price and the service station price was 33
cents a gallon. Now, you pay us that 10 cents; you still got
23 cents, plus you got all the other reports and everything
that you have, okay? So, you know, I'm not saying that would
be -- the oil companies do not own any service stations any
more. Y'all know that. Valero owns a few down in San
Antonio, and maybe some here now, because the office is in
San Antonio. But oil got out of the retail market; they're
strictly in the bulk sales, and they -- they got -- you know,
they pay -- like, if it's an Exxon station, they pay them a
royalty for the use of their name. But they got out. They
can put any -- they put the prices in there themselves, you
know. And I see right here, I -- one day I was in here and I
saw four different prices within four blocks on the pump,
okay? And that's because of that. You know, doesn't mean a
thing to us. They don't -- they have no idea what you're
paying us for the fuel, okay?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds to me like it's
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
28
something we ought to get more information about, Sheriff's
Department, Road and Bridge, all the other users, and see
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree.
MR. WILLIAMS: If anything would happen on the
on-site fueling, we have our own service people out to
monitor our card readers and keep them going. If anything
would happen -- you know, God forbid it don't, but if it did,
you can go to a service station and get fuel at the same
price we charge you at the on-site fuel.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Williams?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I suggest that you get with
the Sheriff and with Road and Bridge, our two biggest users.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. And --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maintenance, Environmental
Health, all the rest of them.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And Animal Control.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Animal Control.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Only thing, I think, Bruce,
you're looking at service station costs. Our cost through
where we get it now is -- I think the mark-up's even close to
half of what their mark-up is, okay? I don't think we
have --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Depends on what they purchase
5-11-09
29
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
it at, though.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Same -- that's the same way
ours is. So many cents above that purchase price is what
they're doing, okay? And ours is doing that now.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A local purchaser can't get
it as cheaply as someone who has a broader distribution area
can get it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We just have to look at all
that and see.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Look at all the -- all the
aspects of that and see how much cost savings there might be,
'cause if we can save some money, let's do it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, I agree.
MR. WILLIAMS: We only deal in branded fuels only
now, you know. Unbranded fuels, like sometimes you see from
Venezuela, you can see it, but we don't do that. We sell top
grade fuel, only kind we sell.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Williams, how many -- how many
different rack prices are there?
MR. WILLIAMS: Pardon, sir?
JUDGE TINLEY: How many different rack prices are
22 I there?
23
24
25
MR. WILLIAMS: Well, there's only one with us, you
know. But you know what? Other distributors got -- I don't
know. You know, sometimes they put their freight costs in
5-11-09
30
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: The point of my question is,
depending upon the jobber, there may be a different rack
price.
MR. WILLIAMS: Could be.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. WILLIAMS: Could be. But it's one they make up
themselves. They make up themselves. One other thing I want
to tell you is that with us, you can only get fuel and oil,
and you can only get the amount of fuel that you request. If
you want to -- say you want two fill-ups a day. That's all
you can get, unless you get your permission. If you -- if
you want to get fuel from Monday to Friday, or you want to
get fuel at a certain time, we can handle that with a card,
you know? If you want to get fuel at -- unlimited amount,
you can do that if you want to. I suggest you don't look at
it that way, but you can. But, you know, you've got total
control of this. You can't get anything but fuel or oil.
And I'm a poor old boy. If you do, I personally pay for it,
okay?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: True to the Williams name.
Thank you. We appreciate this,
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
31
Mr. Williams. And I'm sure we're going to be looking into
it, and -- and we have a point of contact with you. We'll be
getting back in touch with you --
MR. WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- at some point in the future.
MR. WILLIAMS: I thank y'all for letting me come by
and visit with you. Good to meet you, especially Bill. You
take care of the family.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I will do that, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis, it occurs to me that --
that a number of calls to existing customers might be in
order to see what the success rates are with this program.
And there's a pretty lengthy list of users in the area.
MS. HARGIS: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: And also, when you make that
inquiry, you might find out exactly what procedure they have
in place, whether they just got it at the pump at virtually
any location, or a credit card, or whether or not they did a
-- a bid, as we do, or how they handled their fuel purchases
currently, before they went to that system.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't we fuel all Road and
~ Bridge on-site?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mm-hmm. We have some
off-site -- we have tanks out in the yard in Precinct 4; they
got both diesel and gasoline, but there's not a very big --
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
32
about a 500-gallon diesel and 500-gallon gasoline?
MS. HOFFER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Small ones in Center Point,
too.
MS. HOFFER: Yes, sir, those are small, 250, 500.
JUDGE TINLEY: And how are those -- are those tanks
filled by the jobber directly?
(Ms. Hoffer nodded.)
JUDGE TINLEY: And you got to call them out fairly
frequently?
MS. HOFFER: Every time that we need, we bid -- go
out for bids for it, between Pride and whatever the -- Maxey,
and let them bid it each time. So, if it's every week, you
know, they bid it, and the lowest one gets it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think one of the questions
would be -- to Mr. Williams would be, would he deliver that
off-site fuel without having a card reader on it, because,
you know, that's mostly for equipment stuff. I guess you do
have a gas tank there for some, but it's mainly for diesel.
MS. HOFFER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You lose control without
the card reader.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I know we lose control. We
don't have any control now, but it's very small quantities
they got, most of it. Some of it, they fill up in the yard
5-11-09
33
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
down here, don't they? I could see having a reader down
here, but I'm not sure it would be justified to spend $7,500
for a reader when you're not monitoring that much fuel. The
big users is down here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Okay, let's move on to the
next item on the agenda. Number 3, consider, discuss, and
approve resolution for the submission of the Kerr County
Juvenile Probation Department for American Recovery and
Reinvestment Act of 2009, Edward Byrne Memorial Justice
Assistance Formula Grant Program funding for FY '09-'10 to
the Office of the Governor, Criminal Justice Division.
Purpose of the grant is to fund vehicles and radio equipment.
Since placing this item on the agenda, there's been some
evolvement in that particular grant program, and in addition
to the Juvenile Probation Department, the Sheriff's
Department needs to be combined. with that; is that correct?
MR. DAVIS: That's correct, Judge.
I JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Tell us -- tell us what we
need to know about that, Mr. Davis.
MR. DAVIS: Short version of that very lengthy
agenda item is stimulus money coming through the governor's
office to AACOG. This is specifically for criminal justice
funds. This is for government entities only that will
compete for these funds; nonprofits are not eligible. So,
we're going to be competing with every other government
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
34
entity within the COG. I know K.P.D. either has or is
submitting an application. Initially, we were told by AACOG
that each agency could apply for said funds. Sheriff's
Department could come in, and Juvenile Probation Department.
'~
~I Now, as of Friday afternoon, the understanding is -- and I
have a call in for clarification to AACOG. They sent out an
I e-mail Friday afternoon. It appears now that only one
i government entity, meaning the County, per se, could apply.
I
~~ Therefore, anything that -- instead of Juvenile Probation
Department and Sheriff's Department having separate
applications, we would have to file a joint application under
Kerr County, hence the change in the application. There is
no match required for the County on these grant funds.
JUDGE TINLEY: No follow-up expense in subsequent
I
~', years like there are in some grant programs?
MR. DAVIS: Correct. This is actually -- we had
looked at exactly what we would apply for when this thing
popped up. This is not necessarily for program support, for
personnel. They want -- they want equipment bought. They
want things that they can come in and we can spend the money
and be done with it. They do not want to sustain programs,
is my understanding. This is basically for almost like the
capital outlay type of expense, rather than an ongoing
program support and expense.
JUDGE TINLEY: And, Sheriff, you want to
5-11-09
35
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
participate also?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. We -- in fact, we both
had already done applications. We just didn't realize they
were making a change. I think he's asking for vehicles,
which is one of the things they could -- and that's what
we're asking for. We were going to ask for, like, some of
the narrow-band equipment that we're going to be forced to go
with the radio, but it doesn't cover that type of equipment.
The COG's got $3 million to -- to use throughout the COG, and
really, doing it jointly will probably be better, you know,
to enable us to get -- have more of a chance of getting it
when you're competing against Bexar County and that. Where
we still -- we're doing it jointly, so I think that would be
a good idea. We will have to come back, because I think by
the first part of June, we have to have a resolution from
this Court that states that, you know, you agree with it;
that if there was a matching fund, that you agree to pay the
matching fund. There is not a matching fund in this grant.
It's just -- there are four criteria -- Clay's working on
it -- that you have to state in that resolution to be sent
', in. The deadline for filing the grant is the 18th?
MR. DAVIS: I'm not sure. I was told -- it was
initially the 18th, and then I heard -- Clay said Friday it
got pushed back. I have not seen that.
25 ~ SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the deadline on the
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
36
grant is the 18th, but we have longer than that to actually
get the resolution from the governing body, which would be
y'all. So, we'll get the initial -- that's for their
technical review, has to be done by the -- submitted by the
18th. But we're in agreement. We'll get it to y'all
', jointly, if we can get some kind of approval to do the
~I~ resolution. I think, hopefully, we'll have -- y'all will
have one more meeting before that resolution has to be
signed, 'cause I really need Clay to get it done.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm looking at the
resolution. We're not going to approve that today?
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, they've changed the game plan.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I see. Okay, that's
part of it.
JUDGE TINLEY: And -- but I think what they're
seeking is a consensus from the Court today that we would
like to participate in the program as it's currently
outlined. And what I'm hearing is, you're going to bring us
a full resolution to cover both departments and to include
the criteria that are required under the program; is that
correct? At our next meeting?
MR. DAVIS: Judge, the -- if I may, Sheriff, this
resolution meets those criteria, I believe. The issue being
the Sheriff's Department is not on this resolution.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right.
5-11-09
37
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. DAVIS: It strictly lists the Juvenile
it to do that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because we had one we were
going to bring y'all that's basically the same thing.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you a question --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just amend it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- in regards to that. And
that was one of any questions, the fourth whereas. "The
Commissioners Court of Kerr County designates the County
Judge as the grantee's authorized official. The authorized
official is given power to apply for, accept, reject, alter,
~! or terminate the grant on behalf of the applicant agency."
You're going to agree to all of that too?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. The only thing --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're going to give Pat
that much authority over your money?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, because of the grant
guidelines, we don't have much choice. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be a yes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner, let me tell you, the
good news about that language is that language, I would
submit, would give me the authority for the application to be
5-11-09
38
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
submitted to include both.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sure.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And, really, the only
wording -- if you want to approve his resolution, the only
wording is in the second line of it, where it says in Kerr
County that application be made by the Kerr County Juvenile
Probation Department and the Kerr County Sheriff's
Department.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's it. The resolution
is done. If you want to approve --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move approval of the
resolution, amended to include the Sheriff's Department in
the first whereas, and proceed from there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
favor, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you.
MR. DAVIS: Thank you all.
5-11-09
39
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to item 4; inform the
Court that District and County Courts have been approved for
e-filing from Supreme Court of Texas. Ms. Pieper?
MS. PIEPER: That's it. That said it all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We are so informed, right?
Thank you. We'll move to Item 5; consider, discuss, and
approve rental agreement with Ikon for two Ricoh MP-5000 copy
machines, authorize the County Judge to sign same.
MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, I have two different copy
machines in my office, and the contracts are coming up for
renewal. So, by approving this contract, I'll have both
machines by the same company. Ikon is going to buy out the
remaining contract on Xerox. I've discussed that with the
Auditor and the County Attorney, and they're both fine with
that. This is also going to save somewhere in the
neighborhood of $70 to $80 a month by going with the same
company on both copy machines. Let's see, what else I can
tell you? Oh, in the contract, the County Attorney did
suggest that on the lease agreement, we do include the
statement that says, "to the extent allowed by law," and so I
called Ikon, and they're okay with that. So, once the Judge
is approved to sign and I get that original back in my
office, I'll put in that --
JUDGE TINLEY: We've got no residual cost on the
existing lease because they're going to assume whatever
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
40
obligation is there? There's going to be a new lease; it's
MS. PIEPER: That's correct. That is correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is this on Page 11
that says a check to Kerr County for $3,261?
MS. PIEPER: Well, I have --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that proposed savings,
or are they going give you a check now?
MS. PIEPER: We will get a check for that amount.
That is to buy out the Xerox contract. And then what we'll
do is we'll just -- the Auditor will just use that money
and --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That's for buying
MS. PIEPER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval, Judge.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
5-11-09
41
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you,
MS. PIEPER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 6 quickly;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action on bid made by the
City of Kerrville on property currently held in trust by Kerr
County, legal description being J.A. Tivy Addition, Block 52,
Lots 5, 6, 7 and 8, or at least parts thereof -- or part of
8, I'm not sure -- located on Ross Street in the city of
Kerrville, Texas. This is a flood-prone piece of property,
is it not?
MS. BOLIN: Yes, sir, it is.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the City is willing to pick up
whatever the tax bill is?
MS. BOLIN: It includes court costs, school taxes,
and county taxes.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, the bottom line is they will pay
off everyone having an obligation for taxes or costs or
interest, or --
MS. BOLIN: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- whatever's rolled up against
that. They will attain title to the property we currently
hold as trustee; we would convey the property to them?
MS. BOLIN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
42
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries.
MS. BOLIN: Thank you, gentlemen.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. I think we just about
got to you right, Mr. Maloney.
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Item 7, a 9:52 timed item.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Why --
JUDGE TINLEY: How did that number get plugged in?
MR. MALONEY: I believe that is Commissioner
Baldwin's number.
~, COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, don't blame this stuff
~ on me .
MR. MALONEY: So -- he put it in there so I would
not forget the time. And it is true, you don't forget get
those times. So --
JUDGE TINLEY: Item 7, First Responder report from
Eric Maloney. Commissioner Baldwin, do you want to roll this
into the --
5-11-09
43
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. Just -- there's our
friend Eric that does a fantastic job. I had the
opportunity -- he had one of his training meetings --
sessions recently, and I went and had dinner with them. And
great, great bunch of folks to work with. We're excited
about what they're doing. Go ahead, Eric.
MR. MALONEY: For those of you who don't know me,
I'm Eric Maloney, EMS Coordinator for the Kerrville Fire
Department, and I also manage the First Responder program
that is funded by the County. The First Responder program
has -- has changed significantly over the last four or five
years, and the fact that now we are up to 41 total members in
the First Responder program, so that is wonderful, really
good news. We have more people interested out there. We
have about 18 paramedics. One of the challenges that we do
still have is the AED's. We currently only have 25 AED's in
the program, so -- but we are working toward that, and we
have got some grant approvals in the past, which is working
slowly to help kind of get AED's get out there.
This is a volunteer program, and all our volunteers
do volunteer their own time, their own vehicle, to take time
I
out of their day and businesses. You do understand that they
go out there; they -- we respond to motor vehicle crashes or
~, medical calls that do require the additional assistance. The
program is very important to the Kerrville Fire Department
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
44
EMS, and the fact that, as y'all are well aware, we do cover
the 1,100 square miles of Kerr County, and that can be
challenging at times to get that response time to the far end
of the county.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're paid very well to
do that.
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. Our ambulances are moving
very quickly to get out there. Meetings. As Commissioner
Baldwin said, we do have the bimonthly meetings. That has
worked out very well. Everyone wanted to thank you for being
there at the last meeting. That was great. We had a great
turnout, and it's a voluntary meeting that we get together
even months, first Monday, at 6:30, and it just allows the
First Responders to get together. Some of the First
Responders in Zone 5 in the far reaches of west -- west Kerr
County don't have an opportunity to meet some of the First
Responders out in the Center Point region. This does give
them an opportunity to get together to discuss a few changes,
any items that have taken place over the last two months with
the Kerrville Fire Department. It does help keep us all on
the same page throughout the year as changes come through.
Continuing education. We're still moving forward
with continuing education. Online C.E. is still funded by
the County. And with that said, we definitely want to thank
the County for funding us every year with the First Responder
5-11-09
45
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
program. It does allow us to equip our First Responders
appropriately, and they are able to get out there and truly
do some medical assessments, which provide a big benefit.
So, this time, what I wanted to do -- I've been before the
Court before and told you a little bit about the program.
I'd like to show you a little bit about what are some of the
things that the Court has purchased over the years, and
specifically this fiscal year.
So, one of the things that we have done recently,
this was added to the Kerrville Fire Department. We have
pre-established landing zones for our helicopter -- our
medical helicopter services here in Kerrville, and they have
-- they can land out in the county, approximately about 22
areas in the county that they're able to land. And what
we're able to do at night is we actually have what they call
the turbo flare, and this is a flasher, so we're able to set
this up. These strobes allow Air Medical to actually come in
I and be able to see that. They run the blue strobes, and when
they're running in at night ops, they can actually have the
vision; they can actually see the blue strobe from miles
away, because it can be very easy from the ground, looking up
and seeing them, but in the dark, looking down at us can be a
little challenging at times. First Responders don't have the
lights as the ambulance does, so this does allow them to go
out there and mark the L.Z. safely for Air Medical as they do
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
46
come in.
Other things we've done this year is we've improved
their safety in the field. One of the things we had
challenged, and still do, is that identification on scene.
Very easy when I show up on scene, or the Kerrville Fire
Department; we're all uniformed. Very easy for our patients
to understand who they are. But there is a challenge out
there for First Responders that do respond in plain clothes
out there, even for the Sheriff's Office sometimes to
identify who's parking on the side of the road and coming up
to assist. So, some of the things we've done, we've added
extrication jackets. An extrication jacket -- this is
actually mine; I'm a First Responder for the county now. And
extrication jackets are Nomex, so they are to provide fire
protection during extrication. I'll pass this around if you
would like to see. At the same time, it helps identify when
they show up on scene, and does give them some protection.
That way I'm not wearing my good jacket in the winter; I'm
not wearing my clothes out there, and I don't end up ruining
my clothes when I go out there. Instead, they do have that
that they can wear out there.
The other nice thing that we've done is we've added
the safety vest, so -- we added those about two years ago.
And, you know, we had to upgrade to a Class 2 safety vest, so
we have our bright safety vest that says "Kerr County First
5-11-09
47
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Responder EMS," so now when they're at motor vehicle crashes
or anything on roadways, they should don their safety vest.
They're Class 2, which does also allow them to identify us
out there. And Kerrville Fire Department is --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Why do you have to upgrade to
I a Class 2?
MR. MALONEY: Due to the federal changes with that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We all had to go out and buy
~, new vests, 'cause the feds changed the requirements.
MR. MALONEY: That provided a challenge, because
two years ago we went with vests. We went with a -- a lower
class one to get us ID, and then they changed it; they said
Class 2, so we went with a very bright vest. It does give a
lot of reflectivity out there. The other thing we did out of
this year, we added T-shirts, so we had added the First
Responder T-shirts. It says "Kerr County First Responder" on
the back. So, I'l1 pass these around. These also provide --
they allow you to -- when they're responding in the middle of
the night, getting up, waking up, they can actually put a
T-shirt on, and then showing up on scene, there actually is
some sort of identification out there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that -- does that catch light
pretty good there?
MR. MALONEY: No, sir, it doesn't.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
48
MR. MALONEY: No, sir, that's just a standard
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. MALONEY: And those have been a few of the
identification. For next year, we're going to work on
getting some sort of identification badge that they can
actually wear also, and work toward that for this upcoming
budget. One of the last things that we're about to add this
year for medical supplies -- we've done the identification.
We're adding what they call a pulse ox, so -- a pulse ox
symmetry, a little finger probe. So, these are the finger
probes. We currently on the EMS carry the larger style out
there, but obviously, we're very limited with the amount of
equipment we can carry in a bag, realistically, so we
chose -- opted to go with a smaller one. These have a
lanyard on them -- this one, I didn't put it on there -- and
they can tie into the bag, so they can't get lost or left on
scene. So, these are also going to be purchased. You know,
this is one of the items I'm currently working on purchasing.
These cost somewhere close to about $120 a piece, is what
they cost. And those are -- that is some of the equipment --
some of the basic equipment. So -- I'll take the jacket
I back.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Watch Buster. (Laughter.)
MR. MALONEY: Right. Well, it has my name on it,
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
49
too.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's fire-retardant, as well
as if you're climbing through a window with broken glass?
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir, it does provide that
protection to you. So, you know, if you're in an environment
that does have a potential flash, or there is a potential for
maybe fluids in a motor vehicle crash getting on you, that
will provide that protection out there. So, it is not a
bunker jacket, but it does provide some fire protection.
Some of the other things we've added this year is an exposure
spray, so we do carry the MyClyns, which is an exposure
spray, so if they were to get an exposure out there on the --
some sort of bloodborne product with a patient, they actually
have a small vial of spray that they carry on them; they're
able to spray it directly in contact with an open wound, in
their mouth or their eyes, and it provides that protection.
And it does give them an ability -- because of being 30, 45
minutes from getting to the hospital for anything, they can
actually hopefully reduce that potential exposure in the
field. That's something we added to the fire department, and
we did add that to them this year. They all have that
22 ~ ability.
23
24
25
Other future plans. Currently, we're working on
trying to improve communications, which we're going to come
forward with the next budget. We do have some communications
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
50
challenges out in the west side of the county, and currently
our portable radios that we do carry cost close to about $165
a piece, which has been great for us. That allowed us to
outfit everyone in the program with a radio easily without a
large budget impact. However, we're finding some challenges
as far as being able to communicate back with the ambulance
i or back with dispatch. So, we're looking toward -- towards
some ideas to try to solve that. Other things that we're
going to change, or potential for the Court, is that we have
an EMT basic course being offered coming up in June, June
25th to October 14th. And I'll be running the program
itself, and I'm hoping to have about four applicants come out
of this that will apply for the First Responder program. And
the idea is that there's no real number that we need for the
First Responder program, but if we have eight in a certain
zone, then we are definitely more likely to at least get one
to respond, because people do work during the day and do have
some challenges there, but it does provide that coverage.
And with that said, I will -- any questions about
the program?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Don't forget to take the
stuff that you brought. It stopped over there with Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Particularly the $100
thing.
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
51
JUDGE TINLEY: Your EMT course or other
professional courses that -- that you provide, the First
Responder -- I understand if John Q. Citizen walks in off the
street and wants to become a paramedic certified in the fire
department, you have a program where you'll train those
people up. With the First Responders, do they have the
benefit of that also? Where they -- they don't have to bear
personally the tuition cost?
MR. MALONEY: No, sir, we do not currently have
that in place for any sort of tuition reimbursement program
for potential responders. And the cost of the course is
going to cost them about $950 tuition, plus some state fees,
maybe $200 in state fees for that is the cost, but we
currently do not have a program in place.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Your city program handles
that cost? You bring them on board in, I guess, some sort of
probationary status, and then bring them through the training
program, and then you provide that for them?
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir -- actually, we send them to
-- we actually outsource it to -- Bulverde-Spring Branch
provides the paramedic training program. So, we do pay the
tuition, then pay the coverage for them to go -- overtime for
them to go to class during that, so that is funded through
the budget, is what that is funded through.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
52
MR. MALONEY: But it is something we can look at.
The last EMT course we had here was in 2006 was the last one,
and we got -- have great interest with this one. Currently,
18 people are enrolled, and I have another five people that
want to get the last two slots, and so -- and that's without
advertising. A lot of people are very interested in getting
in the program, so that's great. So, we have a lot of --
JUDGE TINLEY: I doesn't sound like the tuition
aspect is a big deal there.
MR. MALONEY: Sir, as opposed to -- I tried this
about a year and a half ago, and it was. So -- and maybe it
just changes with the times, so -- jobs out there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question, Judge. And we
have -- we have talked about that in this court a number of
years ago, about reimbursement -- some kind of reimbursement
program for the First Responders, and just couldn't get the
interest from the members of the Court. But I still think
that it's a -- it's a major plus.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it occurs to me -- obviously,
if you're going to bring somebody in at a full-time capacity,
like they do at the fire department, and that's going to be
their primary occupation, you can certainly justify that as a
budgetary expenditure, same as we send our employees to
training in various capacities. In the First Responder
program, you're talking about a part-time situation. It
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
53
i
occurs to me that -- that we could set up a -- consider
setting up some sort of a schedule whereby we would reimburse
a certain percentage of that cost for each year that they
remain in the First Responder program in order to -- to
encourage participation. Just a thought.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or even -- even help some of
their expenses. I mean, we don't even pay for their fuel to
drive from their home to a traffic accident on Interstate 10.
I mean, it's strictly voluntary and out of their pocket. You
know, we do basically nothing for their services. And
there's got to be a way -- and, you know, I haven't thought
about this in a long time, but there's got to be a way that
we can participate in that. I -- I've tried all the avenues,
but never have gotten really the interest.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we can spark some
interest, though, if we do a reimbursement based on time
served. Because you couldn't really -- I don't think it
would be right to give the full cost in the beginning, and
then all of a sudden the person leaves the county.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I agree with that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is the cost of
tuition, Eric?
MR. MALONEY: $950 for the EMT basic program, and
JUDGE TINLEY: $900. You could reimburse 200 or
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
54
250 a year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For four years.
JUDGE TINLEY: And, you know, that's not a big sum
of money, but it -- but it's 200 or 250 a year. The other
thing, Commissioner, is my recollection of our budgetary --
other than -- than the costs that we have in the EMS contract
and what you do to oversee the program, my recollection of
our budgetary cost is about $11,000 a year for supplies, and
that's it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: On the first Responder program.
MR. MALONEY: Yeah, 10,618 last year. Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's not much for what we're
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, it's not.
JUDGE TINLEY: Kind of like our volunteer fire
departments. That's --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Get a lot for a little.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yep, sure do. Any more questions
for Eric?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
MR. MALONEY: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it.
MR. MALONEY: Thank y'all.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
55
JUDGE TINLEY: Before you -- a couple years ago, my
recollection was you had about 20 to 25 in the First
Responder program.
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, you're up to 41 now?
MR. MALONEY: Up to 41. So --
JUDGE TINLEY: Pretty healthy increase.
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. So it's been great.
JUDGE TINLEY: Great.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks, Eric, very much.
MR. MALONEY: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 8, if we might.
Consider, discuss, and take appropriate action for the
acceptance of the final plat for Francisco's Place located in
Precinct 1.
MS. HOFFER: Leonard's --
JUDGE TINLEY: Kelly?
MS. HOFFER: Leonard couldn't make it, so I'm
filling in. Francisco's Place is located off of Upper Turtle
Creek and is located in Precinct 1. It is 6.0 acres. This
6.0 acres was taken out of 8.9 acres from the Angel Guarino
estate. Remainder 2.96 acres in the back touches neighboring
property that is part of the Angel Guarino estate, so this
small acreage will not be landlocked. We are going through
the alternate plat process on this piece of land. Under the
5-11-09
56
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
alternate plat process, the subdivision must be under five
lots and not be in an existing platted subdivision. This
subdivision meets the criteria for the alternate plat
process. Francisco's Place meets all Kerr County
requirements, and at this time we ask the Court for approval
of the final plat for Lot 1 of Francisco's Place through the
', alternate plat process.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I move for approval.
ii COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the
motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We will
move to Item 9; consider, discuss, and take appropriate
action to set a public hearing for the revision of plat for
Tracts 8, 9, and 10 of Kerrville Ranchettes, and located in
Precinct 4.
MS. HOFFER: Mr. Jim Rice is the owner of the
tracts, and he desires to revise the three tracts into two
tracts as indicated on the plat. The surveyor, Charles
5-11-09
57
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
Domingues, said that this same request was made
September 20th, 2005, and the public hearing was held
November of 2005, but Mr. Rice decided not to continue with
the process and fill the final plat. Mr. Rice would like to
move forward on this revision of plat, so at this time, we
ask the Court to set a public hearing for June 22nd, 2009, at
10 a.m. for the revision of plat for Tracts 8, 9, and 10 of
Kerrville Ranchettes. On June 22nd, 2009, we'll come back to
the Court for the public hearing and go for the final
revision of plat.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of public hearing for revision of plat for Tracts 8,
9, and 10 of Kerrville Ranchettes for June 22nd this year at
10 a.m. Question or discussion on the motion? All in favor
of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 10,
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to name a
private road Fossil Ridge Road per 911 guidelines, and
located in Precinct 4.
25 ~ MS. HOFFER: The requested road name in Precinct 4
5-11-09
58
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
i
is Fossil Ridge Road West. This road is currently unnamed.
!, The location of this road is State Highway 27 to State
Highway 41 West to Dale Priour Road, and then to Dale Durst
Road. Fossil Ridge is off of Dale Durst Road. Fossil Ridge
will be a privately maintained road, and it meets Kerr 911
guidelines. At this time, we ask for your approval to name
this unnamed road, private road, Fossil Ridge Road West.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Caught us napping on this
end.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Taking a nap over on that
end?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He was, but I was studying
my...
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm glad.
5-11-09
59
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
burn ban. I put this on the agenda. It's our periodic
renewal of the burn ban for Kerr County.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move the order restricting
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Next item
is to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on
amendment to lease for the Thad M. Ziegler building which is
currently being used for Adult Probation Department. I put
this on the agenda at the request of a representative of the
lessor. As I'm sure the Court recalls, that lease comes up
for renewal or other action, or no action, as of
September 30th of this year. The representative of the
lessor has proposed an amendment of that lease for a
three-year extension. There would be a rental increase,
two -- two different amounts, first one for 18 months, and
then the second one to be for the subsequent 18 months. Now,
I don't know what the Court's plan is for providing our
5-11-09
60
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
it appears like they're going to be over there indefinitely,
or whether we're going to think about putting them somewhere
else. If -- if we desire to keep our options open, it occurs
to me that rather than going on a three-year lease -- fixed
lease, we could possibly do a one-year with an option to
renew for two additional one-year terms, on some appropriate
notice provision. In that manner, if we should desire to --
we had other quarters for those folks that we could
utilize --,I don't know. I don't know what the thinking is
long-term for those folks. We essentially have an obligation
to provide them a place to work and pay their utility bills,
and the rest of it's up to them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I have two questions.
One would be -- or actually a statement. I don't think I'm
in favor of doing a long-term three -- three-year thing. I
mean, that's -- I just have this feeling that something is
going to change within that time frame and we're going to be
stuck. But why are we responsible to pay their rental and
'~ other things, and we don't for 198th?
MR. EMERSON: I don't know. I've never been asked
I
to look into that issue, whether we have a legal obligation
23 I or not.
24
25
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, and I'm not
asking you to do that now. I just thought somebody knew. I
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
61
__ _ __
thought it was some kind of magical --
MR. EMERSON: No. I will tell you that the 216th
also supervises all the County Court at Law probationers,
which do come out of the county court.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I'm not -- I'm not
saying that I disagree with taking care of that. I just
wondered why we did one and we don't do the other.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's a good question.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And -- but I guess back --
as far as this amendment to the lease is concerned, I am not
in favor of a three-year term. And that's all I got to say
about that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'd just be in favor of a
one-year with a 60-day notification to terminate.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, another option for two
-- like you're saying, two years on an annual basis.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I seem to recall a
conversation I think I had with Judge Prohl one time where
198th has never made a request for it, and -- but there has
to be a reason why behind that. I don't know -- I don't know
the reason.
MS. UECKER: I think one reason might be because
the 198th Probation Department has only been in effect for
5-11-09
62
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
about three or four years. Prior to that, the -- that
probation department supervised both courts -- or all the
courts for Kerr County.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be the reason.
JUDGE TINLEY: I do recall here within the last few
meetings the Court adopting a resolution that as to the
198th, that we did not have adequate space to provide them --
to house them, and essentially did not have the funds to go
outside of our facilities to acquire those for them. That
allowed them to -- I'm not sure whether to get state funding
or partial state funding, or to do something with their
probationary fees that they collect that they couldn't
otherwise do, but I know that the 198th asked us to pass that
resolution.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: So as to put them in some sort of
legal compliance so that they could do whatever they needed
to do in that respect.
(Commissioner Letz joined the meeting.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's fairly recent.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, that was within the last
meeting. Good morning, Commissioner Letz.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Linda, did you say -- did
you just say that the problem -- or maybe one of the reasons
5-11-09
63
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
is that 198th is new out on its own? Because the 216th had
always covered -- represented -- I can't remember.
MS. UECKER: Well, at one time, it was not the
216th Probation Department; it was just the Kerr County
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. UECKER: -- Department, because they serviced
all of the courts, both District Courts and the County Court
at Law. Then about three or four years ago, 198th decided
they wanted their own probation department, so they went out
on their own away from that, making this the 216th. And I'm
just almost, you know, positive that that's the reason, is
because they serviced all the courts.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, okay. Well, that's
interesting stuff. I didn't -- didn't recall that. That's
interesting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When is this lease up?
JUDGE TINLEY: September 30.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of this year?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I would agree that
one year with an option perhaps would be a better approach
than three years.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me contact the lessor's agent
and -- and explore that possibility.
5-11-09
64
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't blame them for trying.
JUDGE TINLEY: Huh?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Can't blame them for trying.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, no. No. Well, we reworked that
thing a couple years ago, you'll recall. It was on a -- it
was on a holdover status forever, and they finally looked up
and said, wait a minute, we need to get this thing on a
current basis. But I'll contact the lessor's agent and --
and explore that possibility.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, the -- now, the
monthly rent, what I'm seeing here is they want to go to
$3,167, and that's from what, though? What are we presently
paying?
JUDGE TINLEY: That is about a 6 percent increase.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Six?
JUDGE TINLEY: No. No, the increase that they're
going to for the ensuing 18 months under this proposal is
approximately 6 percent.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Six. Well, that's probably
fair.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Well, we had this long period
of time that it just kind of rode for a while, and all of a
sudden, they -- they said we need to get this thing in a
current status. We gave them an increase at that time, but
we were still probably pretty much behind the curve because
5-11-09
65
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
of that considerable period of time that nothing had been
done. They've just been going forward on a flat rate. But
let me explore the possibility of a one-year with two
one-year options, 60-day exercise of option notice, see where
we go from there. Anything else on that item? Let's move to
Item 14; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
close Riverside Drive from the Texas Arts and Crafts west
property line to Kerr County Youth Exhibit Center east
property line on May 22nd, 2009, from 5 p.m. until 11 p.m.
Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This has to do with the
forthcoming Texas Arts and Crafts Fair and their Friday night
event, which is a wine tasting and so forth. I think they'd
rather try to attempt to park people up on Riverside Drive in
a little closer proximity to the pavilion. So, I would move
approval.
22 one?
23
24 invitat
25
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you not get your
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. I have in years past,
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- now, this is the wine
tasting program that we weren't invited to? Is that the very
5-11-09
66
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
but this year it's kind of seemed to drop off.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guess what? Neither did I.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you need to take care
of this, Bill.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, I'll take care of it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably a good idea.
So, coming from a wine tasting thing, we don't want them
walking down that hill into the park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rolling down into the
river, right. Good idea. Good point. I didn't want to make
that point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know you didn't want to
13 bring tl-
14
15 picture.
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
You got the
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we could probably use
some of those landing lights the guy just left here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That might help.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not from me.
JUDGE TINLEY: All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
67
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Jody, can you send a letter
to Penni with the court order?
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's move to Item 15; consider,
discuss, and take appropriate action to vacate Lots 216
through 222 in Center Point Estates, Unit II, as recorded in
~' Volume 3, Page 103, Kerr County Plat Records, and/or set a
public hearing if required. Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Voelkel, are you out
there? Yes, you are, patiently waiting. Do you want to come
tell us what this is all about?
MR. VOELKEL: The --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Like we haven't heard about
it before.
MR. VOELKEL: I'm Don Voelkel. Pete Selig's the
owner of these lots, and he owns about 135 or so acres
immediately west of this. These seven lots are small. They
were platted back in the '70's, I think, small as 0.2 acre up
to 0.4, I think. He wants to -- and the road that services
these lots on that plat that you see has never been built.
There's no road there. There's a 20-foot-wide easement that
was dedicated; the road never was built.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Along the banks of Verde
Creek, is it not?
MR. VOELKEL: No, I don't think it's Verde Creek.
5-11-09
68
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
It's Elm Creek; goes into Verde Creek just to the north. But
the east boundary of these lots is the center of Elm Creek.
The west boundary is this 20-foot lane. The other boundary
of that lane, the fence, is his 135 acres. He is desirous of
vacating that piece of the road. The road comes from Center
Point Drive across Elm Creek; there's a dam there. There's a
I
road there actually built, comes across to the fence at
Mr. Selig's property, and then the road goes north. There's
several other owners up there. I think there's two or three
record owners for all those lots. There's probably 10 or 12
lots up there. The road that forked to the south and went
down along the fence never was constructed. What they want
to do is to vacate the lots and that stretch of road that --
and the road goes and dead-ends at his last lot. There's no
other owners that would access that road. And since the
road's not there, what we would like to do is vacate those
lots back to open space. He wants to put it with his land to
the west and try to add it there and sell it. And there's
no -- if this happens, there's no need for that road to be
still there, so he'd like to get the road vacated. What --
and I've given you a copy; I think they passed it out.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have it.
MR. VOELKEL: From the state law, the cancellation.
t sbecifically this tube of item. And it's -- it's
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
69
personally think the best way to do it is for me to write a
description of those lots and that part of the road and
describe it, and then it says in here it will be filed in the
Deed Records, so we could just describe those six lots and
that stretch of road in one description, and then -- and I
think it has to have three weeks of notice, kind of like a
public hearing. So, we could set a public hearing at a date,
you know, that we could get all the notice out, and if
there's any cost, I'm sure my client would pay the cost if we
have to put it in the paper. I don't know how y'all want to
do that. But then we have that description that we could use
to -- to attach and file in the Deed Records at that -- after
the approval, if it gets approved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the issue is abandoning
lot lines between 216 and 222, and making it one lot?
MR. VOELKEL: No, not --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Vacating the lot lines,
abandoning the easement.
MR. VOELKEL: Right, abandoning, vacating it back
to unplatted land.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
MR. VOELKEL: That he can put then with his other
acreage.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, one lot.
MR. VOELKEL: Well, it won't be a lot, but it will
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
70
just be one --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One piece of property.
MR. VOELKEL: One piece of property, right.
JUDGE TINLEY: The -- the roadway on the west side
there that never was constructed, --
MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir?
JUDGE TINLEY: -- that roadway was dedicated to
~ public use?
MR. VOELKEL: That's the way it appears on the
plat. They had the statement on the plat that the owner
signed that dedicated the roads to the public.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Occurs to me --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Comes in between 230 and
231, Judge, if you see that, and turns left and right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'm talking about the
one after you turn off Center Point Drive and head west.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Then you hit a 90 and you can make a
left.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: And go south on that one that comes
down and serves 222.
MR. VOELKEL: That portion was never built. The
rest of it was built.
JUDGE TINLEY: But it was -- it was dedicated?
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
71
MR. VOELKEL: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: It occurs to me, then, we've got two
issues. One, we're going to vacate a portion of a plat, and
we're also going to discontinue a public road.
MR. VOELKEL: Correct. That's --
JUDGE TINLEY: So I think -- I think we've got some
notice requirements on -- on both the vacating of the plat
and a public hearing on that, and discontinuing a public road
and -- and the vacating of that, and also a separate notice
on that, both publication and posted on the property, I
think, if my recollection serves me correctly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're right.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, it -- I think we got to do both
if that road was -- was dedicated to the public. Even though
he still owns 216 through 222 and he wants to vacate the plat
as to them, I think we -- out of an abundance of caution, we
ought to do something to discontinue and abandon that public
road.
MR. VOELKEL: That's what he ultimately wants to
have, however you want to do it. That's why I got a copy of
the state law. I wasn't sure, never had one of these done
before. And that's -- you know, in the state law, it even
talks about vacating portions of a public road.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
72
MR. VOELKEL: You know, that as long as there's no
other use for it or no one's going to be cut off, or no one's
rights are being violated by virtue of the fact we're going
to abandon and vacate that stretch of the road. And if you
look at the plat, he's the only person that has any access,
so however we need to do that. If we need to do it all, if
we can make it in one notice in the paper, or --
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm going to leave that to the
County Attorney, on if we need to do that as a -- as a
two-prong procedure, whether we can do it as -- as one with
dual notices, or however he -- but I think we do need to
cover both bases so that we don't end up with your client
vacating a portion of a plat, but there's still a question as
to whether or not there's some claim of right in the public
to a roadway that never got built.
MR. VOELKEL: Right. That's what -- we want to do
it all at one time, if we can.
JUDGE TINLEY: We want to eliminate that
possibility.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think you're going to find
there's two different actions, though.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Two issues.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I think it is.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
73
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, it's dedicated to the
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So it's got to be two issues.
MR. VOELKEL: Two different agenda items at that
time, one vacating those lots; number two, vacating that
stretch of road.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's see if we can -- Rex,
are you cool with that?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me get it set here.
MR. VOELKEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before -- well, okay, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Go ahead. I was just going
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mine is more of a general
comment, and Don and I have had this discussion before he
went through this, and his plan was to file this in the Deed
Records, which is fine; needs to be done according to state
law. The concern I have is that it's not going in the Plat
Records, and to me, we're also changing a plat. And while
that -- if it's going to be in the Deed Records, I think the
last time we did that with Mr. Vlasek, we required the
instrument to also be filed in the Plat Records. 'Cause we
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
74
had the same situation with Mr. Vlasek, basically.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, you know, otherwise we end
up with a plat that is no longer accurate, even though the
information is somewhere else filed in the county records.
JUDGE TINLEY: Just going to file a revised plat,
in essence.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, it makes sense. And it
can be -- and, you know, it's --
MR. VOELKEL: And the reason it doesn't make sense
to me is because this is not going to be platted land. And
in the state law, it says reverted back to unplatted,
unvacated property. I don't -- if we have a plat with a lot
on there, then it's not unplatted land. I don't see how we
can accomplish both of these in -- and that's why on the --
talking about describing it and filing it in the Deed
'~ Records, I think that accomplishes it by state law. I think
filing a plat would be -- I mean, it --
i COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're revising that
subdivision also.
MR. VOELKEL: Do what?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Subdivision is being revised.
These lots are no longer in it. You're taking a road out of
the subdivision.
MR. VOELKEL: It's not being revised, it's being
5-11-09
75
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
vacated, being abandoned. I personally disagree with filing
anything in the Plat Records, but if that's what y'all want
to do with it, I'll do it. I don't think it's the proper
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we err on the
MR. VOELKEL: I have a question on what you want
that to look like. I mean, normally when we file a revision
of plat like Jonathan's talking about, you have Lots 210
through 216 or whatever, 216 through 222 as platted. We show
those lots, we show the road. Then what are you going to
show as replat? I mean, it's not -- we're not revising it
into a plat.
JUDGE TINLEY: You can -- on the revision, you can
just put a notation in that area, "Vacated as per court
order" or something.
MR. VOELKEL: Okay, I'll do that. I mean, in my --
I'm not saying my client does not want to go by what the
Court wishes. I just have a problem with professionally what
it's going to look like. But I'll work with Jonathan; we'll
come up with something, if that's what --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Work with Bill.
MR. VOELKEL: I'll work with Bill if that's --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're -- in essence, then,
what you're saying is that this piece of land will be taken
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
76
out of this already established subdivision, and it never --
like it never was a part of it.
MR. VOELKEL: That's what it says in state law,
back to unplatted, unvacated land.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whereas a plat ought to
show one big lot in back behind all those other platted lots.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think it's -- yeah,
I but --
MR. VOELKEL: We don't want it to be a lot.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not going to be a lot.
But my concern is that if someone looks at the Plat Records,
they're going to think there is going to be something to say
that road isn't there and lots of other --
JUDGE TINLEY: Or that those lots aren't there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or those lots aren't there.
So, I just think there needs -- you can -- in my opinion, you
can file the same thing, just a description, and in the Plat
Records. I just think something needs to be in the Plat
Records.
MR. VOELKEL: Well, I -- I'll work with Bill and
Rex and figure up the way to get that done, if that's what
y'all -- the way I envision it, the only thing you can do is
just as revised, just vacated and gone.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They don't have any --
MR. VOELKEL: So as long as that's --
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
77
JUDGE TINLEY: You're filing a revised plat, and
those would no longer be shown there. And you could put in
some sort of a notation, because you're -- you're looking at
what it was prior to revision, and just show lot so-and-so
vacated as per court order.
MR. VOELKEL: Okay. And just leave a blank on
there like a different type of -- instead of certification
that you normally sign, put one that by court order
so-and-so, this -- these lots and this road were -- or I
guess it would be two court orders, one court order for the
lots and then one court order for the road.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And there will be two
public hearings if we get to that point here in just a
second.
JUDGE TINLEY: If we ever let you in.
MR. VOELKEL: Okay, I think I'm on board.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Now, Bill?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we set a
public hearing -- what's the date we're looking for here,
Jody?
JUDGE TINLEY: 6/22 is when we've got --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 6/22. I move a public
~i
hearing on June 22nd for the purpose of vacating lot lines on
Lots 216 through 222 in Center Point Estates, Unit II.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
78
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion -- at what time? 10:05?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 10:05.
JUDGE TINLEY: At 10:05 a.m. Okay, we have a
motion and a second. Question or discussion on the motion?
All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Another motion?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would move that we
conduct a public hearing on June 22nd at 10:10 a.m. for the
purpose of abandoning a road easement in Center Point
Estates, as shown in Volume 3, Page 103 of the Kerr County
Plat Records.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. I think we
got you as far as long as we can go right now.
5-11-09
79
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. VOELKEL: That's good enough. Thanks.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Take care, Don. We'll be
looking forward to meeting with you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Why don't we take us about a
15-minute recess right now.
(Recess taken from 10:37 a.m. to 10:56 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, and
we'll go to our 10:30 timed item, Number 13. Consider,
discuss, and take appropriate action to modify Kerr County
Information Technology Policy, Court Order 28680, dated
June 14, 2004. Gee, that was a long time ago.
MR. TROLINGER: Time flies when you're having fun.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
MR. TROLINGER: There are three changes and one new
paragraph for consideration. The first three changes are
minor. The third is somewhat contentious. Judge, would you
like me to read these out?
JUDGE TINLEY: I would.
MR. TROLINGER: The first change is to delete the
sentence under Paragraph 3.5 and move to new Paragraph 3.9.
I'll read what the new paragraph should be. "3.9, Reporting
Violations. All Kerr County employees and/or representatives
have the obligation to report suspected violations of this
policy to their elected official, department head,
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
80
Information Technology, or in the alternative, the
Commissioners Court." And that's the paragraph. The -- the
reasoning behind this is in the past, some computer files
were available to people that they shouldn't have been, and
I'm talking about years past. And I found that if -- if the
policy says Information Technology has to -- has to receive a
report on this, that maybe I'll find out sooner instead of
through roundabout circles, and that's what's happened in the
past, so I thought it deserved its own paragraph.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Next one?
MR. TROLINGER: The change to Paragraph 3.8 reads
as follows: "Confidential data. Information Technology
staff shall be responsible for maintaining the integrity and
i confidentiality of information viewed during troubleshooting
and monitoring of County's network. Information Technology
staff will adhere to the strictest standards, including all
statutory requirements, of confidentiality."
JUDGE TINLEY: And the last sentence is what you're
MR. TROLINGER: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
22
23 standaY
24
25 about t
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are the "strictest"
Well, I went and sat down with Rex
adding?
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
81
comprehensive statement that says, you know, I.T, is not
going to disclose other people's business, basically. And
that's as succinct as I could put it to make it as broad as
possible. "Strictest standards" means I'm not going to come
up here and discuss what I saw on Rex's computer while I was
doing work on it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are these standards, or are
these requirements of law?
MR. TROLINGER: Well, it includes all statutory
requirements; that's in the sentence. And what, in
particular, I don't know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we say that
strictest standards and requirements of the statutory
requirements?
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's on there.
JUDGE TINLEY: But it can include more than
statutory requirements, the way that's worded.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: As I see it.
MR. TROLINGER: I want to make sure it goes beyond
and above.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
82
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Next one?
MR. TROLINGER: Well, there's Paragraph 4.3, and
this is an additional sentence. I won't read the entire
existing paragraph; I'll just read the change, since it is
long. Core software systems -- I'll start over. "Core
software system purchases are to be approved by the
Commissioners Court in accordance with all pertinent laws and
Kerr County policies and standards." The reasoning behind
this is, we should have a -- some type of review process
before we install a software system. For instance, you know,
a contractor wants to come in and install a piece of software
for a particular office. Well, other offices can take
advantage of that. If we have a county-wide approach, if we
review this in court, I feel that we can make sure that this
is the best for, you know, all county offices, to be shared
services by other entities. You know, maybe the Sheriff
needs access to something that the County Attorney's got.
There are state and federal data standards of compliance.
For example, a criminal justice information system, T.C.I.C.
and N.C.I.C, that needs to be adhered to. And, you know,
overall, I'm just looking to provide integrated criminal
justice systems, even noncriminal justice systems, for all
the county offices. I want to make sure that you all review
that, and gives us a shot at -- at accomplishing all that.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
83
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: John, what distinguishes
core software system purchases from other software system
MR. TROLINGER: Well, by the need. A program
that's going to look at video teleconferencing, for instance,
for the Justice of the Peace for video magistration, I can go
and -- the County Attorney's office, Ilse Bailey, invited me
to go in and review the software with the vendor and see if
it's good for video magistration. Well, that -- I would
consider that core software, because we can install that on
all four precincts -- for all four precincts to use, so it's
used in more than one office. I'd consider that to be a core
software system.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's an example of a non-core
software?
MR. TROLINGER: I just need a program that'll
capture something on my screen and print it out on the
printer a certain way. For instance, the tax office has a
little screen print program that -- that prints out screens
for them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In the actual policy, when you
say -- what is it, "in at will"? Is that what it stands for?
What's that?
MR. TROLINGER: "In accordance with."
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In accordance with. Can you
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
84
write that out? 'Cause, obviously, I don't know what it
stands for. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. Spell
MR. TROLINGER: Will do.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever it is. Appears in
the next paragraph too.
MR. TROLINGER: The one new paragraph --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Wait, back on that one also,
this is in existence, is, "A copy of the license agreement
may be kept by an elected official or department head." It
seems that there ought to be one spot where all these license
agreements go. I don't have a problem with the original
being kept, whatever, but you ought to have a copy of them.
MR. TROLINGER: I do, and we -- well, to the best
of my knowledge, I do. And I keep the originals either in
the -- in the vault here, in the fireproof vault, tax vault,
or at the Sheriff's office, alternatively. That way, if we
do have a disaster, we can recover and reload that software.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't you avoid an
argument or dispute over what's pertinent and not pertinent
by saying all statutory requirements, instead of all
pertinent laws.
MR. TROLINGER: Okay, done. So, the sentence now
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
I1
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20.
21
22
23
24
25
85
reads, "Core software system purchases are to be approved by
the Commissioners Court in accordance with all statutory
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And Kerr County policies,
et cetera.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the additional paragraph that
you're proposing to add is just what we've got in place for
major software systems today?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. For the --
MR. TROLINGER: For the new paragraph, let me first
explain. The first paragraph of the I.T. policy says that
it's the policy of Kerr County to provide an atmosphere that
encourages the free exchange of ideas and sharing of
information of benefit to the conduct of the -- of official
county business. And I take that to heart. I want these
systems to be available for any offices that need to share
this data. For instance, the County Clerk has land records,
and the County Clerk's got a great system that -- that has
online access that makes those records available for anyone
in the county. Anyone in the world, really. And -- and
that -- and it goes to heart for the other programs that we
have. We should, where possible, provide that type of access
and that information sharing. So, what was recommended to me
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
86
by another County's I.T. head was that this Local Government
Code 191.008 has some specific -- specific language that says
that the Commissioners Court can purchase or authorize the
purchase of these systems for the use of other offices. I
won't -- I won't go into the exact wording of the Government
Code, but I think we should integrate that somewhat into the
Kerr County I.T. policy to at least acknowledge that that
code exists.
JUDGE TINLEY: And that, of course, would be
subject to modification or amendment from time to time as we
may authorize additional systems?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir. So, if we buy a new
$100,000 software system next year, then we'd add that to
this list and say Commissioners Court has provided this
system.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions for Mr. Trolinger?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had -- John and I had talked
about one issue I have that I would appreciate if it could
get added into this, and John is against it. You have -- if
you'll look at the bottom corner of your screen on most of
our county-wide computers, there is a little symbol that says
VNC or VCN.
MR. TROLINGER: VNC.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Which allows John to access
5-11-09
87
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
your computer from anywhere he desires to and look at
anything you're working on at any time he desires to. At one
time, I could go into my computer, click on that and disable
it, and then if John wanted to get into it, all I -- he would
have to call me, and I can click on it and enable it; he
could get into my computer from somewhere to do what he
wanted to do, all right? I just think that I.T. should have
to notify the computer user prior to and get permission to go
into his computer at that time to be able to go in and do
something. We're not talking the mainframe; we're talking
logging in. You may be sending a very security-sensitive
e-mail to somebody, and not necessarily John, but any I.T.
person that we have can go into your computer and read and --
and change or do whatever you're sending right then, and I
think they need permission before they go into your computer
and do that, from either the department head, if they're
going to do it, you know, department wide, or from the
individuals. And just -- it's kind of unnerving to be
sitting there working on something; all of a sudden your
mouse starts moving around, and I.T.'s in there doing
something else on your computer, okay?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've had that happen.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't -- I think there
ought to be -- and that's the biggest complaint I hear from
other departments, is that John gets in and looks at
5-11-09
88
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
everything. That's fine, but I think they ought to have the
courtesy to let us know when they're doing it, and I would
like to see some type of paragraph of that added in. He
doesn't want it. It does take time to call that department
head or that individual and say, "I need to get in and update
something on your computer." Takes a little bit more time
than just going in at 2 o'clock in the morning when he's up
here working and doing it, but I think they need to do that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Are you -- are you suggesting that
each department head under that change would have the
authority to say, "No, I'm not going to let you in"?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not suggesting that we
would necessarily have the authority to say no. Depending on
what it was he wanted to do, okay? But I am suggesting that
we need the ability to know when he's doing it and what he's
doing, because now he's doing it in your specific computer
from a remote access, not doing it to the mainframe.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can he send -- would it be
acceptable to you to receive, I guess, notice after the fact?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that that VNC that we
have -- see, mine was set up to where I could go in and --
and close it. You know, lock it to where nobody -- nobody
could get into my computer from a remote access, and that's
the way everybody's is. Now I go in to try and do that, and
it says your computer has been configured so that you don't
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
89
have access to change this, okay, to where now I can't even
stop him from doing it. I think that we should have that
ability to -- to activate that VCN or VNC icon to either let
them in or not let them in, and whenever they want in, we
just activate it; say, "Okay, come in and do whatever you
need to do," but don't go into our computers without us ever
knowing when and what you're doing in them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think --
JUDGE TINLEY: No, no, what you just told me then
was a different answer than you give me a moment ago, that
you wouldn't necessarily have the right to tell them no.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm saying when or what you're
~ doing.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- in order to open that up where
you can go in, is what you're telling me now.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, you would have control over
that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah, in that sense, you would
have control. I don't know whether I have the right to deny
him once he requests it. My reason for turning it off and on
is so that nobody can get into that computer when you're not
there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that -- I look at it
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
90
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's either that, or what
we're going to have is we're going to have everybody just
totally shutting down their computers when they go home in
the evening or different times to keep that from happening,
and that's going to cause him even more problems.
MR. TROLINGER: That's true, it does cause quite a
bit of trouble with the network if, after hours, the
computers are turned off. They can't get their automatic
updates, they can't get backed up. But let me say that the
VNC program is my way of letting you know that I'm accessing
your computer. It includes a log file that's recorded at
your computer and at mine that says the time, and beginning
and end that the access took place, and it lets you see that
I'm working on your computer. There are other methods that a
large I.T. shop -- enterprise I.T. shop would use that would
simply lock you off the computer, and you wouldn't be able to
see what was going on, and you'd have no knowledge of it at
I all.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Linda, do you know how
to tell on your VNC whether or not John's in your computer or
not?
MS. UECKER: No.
MS. BOLIN: I don't.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The whole reasoning how you
know is, one, it changes color if you're there when it does
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
91
it. If it's after hours, you don't know it. How you run a
report, all mine says is I can't touch it; it's been
pre-configured. That's why I -- I just think it's a
courtesy-type deal. If somebody's going to get onto my
computer at my office, all right, while I'm doing something
or there, I think as a courtesy, that department head or that
individual, however the Court wants to do it, should have the
right to know when before somebody gets in there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about notification from
him that says, --
JUDGE TINLEY: E-mail.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- "At 4:05 p.m. this
afternoon, I will be on your computer." The purpose of --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's all I'm asking, some
type of notifying us before he --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think that sounds
reasonable to -- I mean, he's not going to know the time. I
mean, I can see both sides of this, and I can see very little
that we deal with is private, confidential. I mean, there's
some personnel stuff. Rex's office probably has the most
confidential. I would say you probably have some. But --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Your D.A.'s have a whole lot.
~', That's why the judges and the D.A.'s and everybody else is --
i
is having real problems right now, to be honest, with I.T.,
because they don't want them being able to get into their
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
92
computers at any time, day or night, without them knowing it.
And I think if they were made to notify us --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But you're saying without them
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they could know it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All I'm asking is, let us know
it.
MR. TROLINGER: They could know it. They could
know it; there is a log file. In the I.T. policy, the very
last paragraph says that each department head or elected
official develop and implement written guidelines or policies
for County-owned computer usage.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Then, if I develop a
policy that says I.T. cannot touch any one of our computers
and log into them without my knowledge prior to, then that's
okay?
MR. TROLINGER: Let me give you a for-instance.
County Attorney has stated, "Do not make any changes to my
computers without my authorization," and then there's a
caveat. The Windows updates are okay, the security updates.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: He can add that.
MR. TROLINGER: That's a good example, because the
Windows security updates are mandatory. If your computer
gets infected with something bad and shuts down the county
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
IO
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
93
network and we can't do business, you know, that is my
responsibility to insure those updates are done. So if I
start reviewing a lot of computers all at once, and I find
your computer doesn't have that update, I will then go into
your computer and force it to reboot or look at it, see why
it hasn't hit that update. And that's an example of why I
access computers after hours remotely.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, you said you just want to
know?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's kind of --
JUDGE TINLEY: But you don't want to be able to
control, "Yes, you can" or "No, you can not"?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well --
JUDGE TINLEY: If -- if I.T. sends you an e-mail
immediately prior to going into your computer, it's dated and
timed, and he sends you an e-mail, and said he's going into
your computer to do maintenance or whatever, Microsoft
updates, security updates, whatever, would that not solve the
problem?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For the most part, Judge, it
probably would, because what's hard to deal with is coming to
work one morning and all your computers are shut down and
everything, and you're wondering what happened. And then you
~! find out, well, I.T. went into it last night and did
different things and whatever. I mean, it's not that I don't
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
94
want them doing it, but stuff like -- I have every e-mail you
ever sent me in that computer in a file, okay? I have every
e-mail I've ever received from any office in that computer in
files, and I don't have a problem with that because I'm not a
-- you know, I don't try and keep private anything that's on
it. But if I had an e-mail five years ago from you, I don't
want -- and not John, okay? I just have an issue with
security of the system. Any I.T. guy that this county
hires -- and we don't do background checks on them; I wasn't
asked to on the last one. Okay, we did finally when TLETS
had to, but I don't know who these people are, and at
2 o'clock in the morning, when somebody's into my computer
system at the Sheriff's Office, it bothers me, okay, if they
don't have it. And I think all I'm asking is -- is don't
enable a VCN that says he can get into my system any single
time, anywhere, anyplace that he wants to without my
knowledge. I think he has to -- I think he needs to go back
and put the VCN where we can turn them off and on, and then
he calls me and I activate it; it takes two seconds. It's a
right click, okay? Okay, go in. You know, I know --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're saying two different
things, then.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I'm not really trying to
say -- I'm not trying to say I don't want him ever in the
system, or being able to say no. I would like to be able to
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
95
say no at 2 o'clock in the morning when I can't tell what
he's doing. If I'm there, I can see --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You'd rather be shut down
whenever you're trying to get something done and he's got to
do these updates and backups during the day when you're
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When I can -- when I'm there,
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When you're there, you can see
what he's doing. When you're not there, I can't see, and
they're going -- you don't know if that I.T. person is
reading every e-mail you have in your computer at 2 o'clock
in the morning.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless he has insomnia or is
really bored, I can't --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This man works more at night
than he does during the daytime, I'll tell you that. He does
put in -- he does put in a lot of hours to this county, okay?
I -- I can promise you that. But I think we ought to know --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause if you're not on the
computer, then they can do things -- do the update stuff in
the system.
MR. TROLINGER: Well, an example of it, last week
we had 40-some-odd hours of issues that had to be taken care
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
96
of, just regular calls that came in or help desk issues.
Well, once those are done, then I've got to take care of the
maintenance, the servers, the computers, the updates. So,
most of that does take place after hours, and it is a
convenience to you not to disrupt you during the day. But as
I said before, the VNC the program itself is to reduce the
amount of travel I've got to do. When you have a problem,
yes, I can log in right away and fix your problem, but it
also helps me that I don't have to go to your office and --
and do the other -- the maintenance issues.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not asking that they have
to go to the office. I am asking that we have the ability to
turn off and on so we know when --
MR. TROLINGER: The alternate is that I can log
into the computer without you ever knowing or without you
ever seeing that -- you know, that log file or those changes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's already happening.
MR. TROLINGER: Microsoft tools.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's already happening. We
don't see it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: John, you say that there's a
log and everyone here -- well, not everyone. The three that
responded said that they don't know how to access that log.
MR. TROLINGER: It's not accessible by the users.
It's for my purpose -- well, it is accessible by the users;
5-11-09
97
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
let me correct that. They just don't know how to see it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you -- why can't you -- why
can't they be able to see what you are doing? Why couldn't
that log be easily accessible to them so they know when you
go on the computer?
MR. TROLINGER: If I can publish an e-mail and say,
"Here's how you look at the log file," would that be
sufficient? Instructions on how to pull it up on each --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To me, it would be.
MR. TROLINGER: It's available right now. It's
know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would help a lot. I think
I understand their concern about wanting to know about what
you're looking at and doing, or at least the time when that
-- but I also think that you need to have access to the
computers, because there's lots of updates and stuff, things
that need to be done, and very little that we deal with is
confidential. I mean, you know, Linda probably has some,
'cause -- anyone dealing in the courts. Outside the courts,
I can't think of anything confidential we really do. Maybe
the personnel.
MR. TROLINGER: This is an important discussion,
and I agree that the information -- and that's why I go -- I
5-11-09
98
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
this confidential data paragraph straightened out. I want it
to be comprehensive. I want y'all to understand that we're
-- we're in there to do our work and then get off of there.
We're not in there to snoop. And with a couple 150
computers, 300 and some-odd network devices, there's not much
time for that anyhow.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the other side -- I
guess the other side of it is --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, when you go in the
computers, there's part of the log that says what you were
MR. TROLINGER: Not this particular -- not what
we're talking about. It just says the start time and the end
time.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What would it take to have --
so they could see what you did in the computer?
MR. TROLINGER: I don't know if that's easily
attainable. That's something I haven't -- haven't thought
out. That would be an extensive change.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to weigh in on this
thing. What I'm hearing the Sheriff say -- I'm hearing it a
little bit different, and what I'm hearing him say that I
agree with 100 percent is the courtesy call. If you send him
an e-mail prior to going on his system -- going into his
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
99
system that says, "Hey, Rusty, I'm going in there at 2:37 and
I'm going to count your chickens," or whatever you're going
to do there, let him know in that e-mail, and that's simply a
courtesy call. And I -- I'm really bumfuzzled here why we're
opposed to that.
MR. TROLINGER: I'm not opposing it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, but there's folks in the
room that are. And I think that if you just paid the guy a
courtesy call that says I'm going in there at a certain time
to do a certain thing, if I have no problem with what you're
doing --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I don't even require a
certain time. Date, let me know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you -- if you -- I differ
with Jon just a little bit. If there's -- if there is any
confidential information, nobody needs to be in it, zero.
That's my -- just my opinion, what the law says. But if
there's -- if there's -- you know, we're talking about where
there's a little bit. Linda has a little bit of confidential
information. If she has any, then nobody needs to be in
there, unauthorized.
MR. TROLINGER: I don't consider it my business to
look at anything that's on the computers.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you 100 percent
on that. And that's -- that's what everybody's concern is.
5-11-09
100
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
you can get arrested, I guess.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Except right now, we have no
way of knowing.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about a
telephone call. Why don't we just -- why not an e-mail
message -- a red-flag e-mail message that says we will be
doing maintenance on your computer?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Courtesy call.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Courtesy.
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think you want a call at
2:00 in the morning if John's going to be in there
configuring something at 2:00 in the morning. You don't want
him ringing you up.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think he does.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I get woke up now at 2:00 in
the morning; I'm not asking to get woke up more. What I am
asking is that, even before -- or the day before, whatever,
say, "Today, you know, I'm going to be getting into your
computer" to kind of maintain it, update it, or this type
of -- you know, correcting files or whatever. But let us
know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think he's agreed to do
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
101
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's very simple. Just
send him an e-mail, like you say. Say, "I'm going to be
doing this," to let you know I'm going to be in there. And,
you know --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Put a red flag on it so he
sees it.
MR. TROLINGER: And to make it clear, the I.T.
policy does state, the last paragraph, that, you know, you
can adopt your own policies for computer access, so please
do. Any other departments that say, hey, you know, before
you do a change on my computers, do -- you know, do this.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can adopt a policy that says
I.T. can't get into our computers without notifying us first?
MR. TROLINGER: Potentially. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think --
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm not sure your policy can
override the policy of the Court.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now you know why I'm asking
You.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see two different kind of
things. I mean, some of these things, I think John needs to
have access to the computers when he needs access, especially
on the security side. And I think, like, the Windows
updates, they need to be excluded from all the stuff. He
just needs to do them, period.
5-11-09
102
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The security side comes
through the -- through the mainframe and his firewall, okay?
That doesn't have anything to do with that computer you have
sitting on your desk.
MR. TROLINGER: Well, it does. The Microsoft
applicable to each computer.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They're automatic as long as
MR. TROLINGER: If the update has not installed or
is hung up and I have to manually adjust it. And there's a
second reason. The antivirus will report to me if there --
if there's anything suspicious or if there's been a potential
infection of the computer, and when that happens, I need
immediate access to it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But it's going to tell you,
hey, a virus has tried to load.
MR. TROLINGER: Generally, yes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Call me. Say, "I need to get
in there; you got something trying to load a virus in your
system." You did that with the fingerprint machine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, if he needs to call, we
have 300 employees. He doesn't have the time to call 300
people and say, "I'm going onto your computer."
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
103
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I said it can be with the
department head or the elected official, but I think somebody
outside -- or somebody in that department should at least get
the courtesy to know. Otherwise, I'll be honest, I'll just
shut off our computers at night, because I just don't know.
And I used to be able to do it when I had access to turn on
and off the VNC, and when John needed to get in there, he'd
call me and say, "Hey, I need to get in your system to
upgrade this." "Okay, fine." Activate it, go on. But now I
can't even control that, so now we have no control over when
somebody's getting in our system.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I think we need to determine
what the issue is, Rusty. Are you wanting to control if he
can get in, or merely knowing that he is going to go in or
has been in?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It totally depends on what his
23
24
25 purpose
5-11-09
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But what --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, what would his
purpose is, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. The answer to my question,
then, is you want to control if he goes in, potentially.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, the thing is, it just
depends on what his purpose is.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
104
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, one, he can -- one time
he came in, I -- my e-mail is all set up; have I Microsoft
Outlook, whatever, okay? And all of a sudden I came back one
morning and it was a different Microsoft Outlook. Now all my
e-mails are different; everything I do in that computer is
different, because it's a new e-mail operating system in it
that I didn't even know was going to be there. So how you
send e-mails, how you receive e-mails, how they were saved,
everything changed overnight.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I did -- that happened to
me. I left town. Computer guy came to my house, fixed my
computer, and it's all different, 'cause every time you
upgrade your operating system, Windows does that.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you knew --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a Windows problem.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You knew the computer guy was
coming to your house to work on your computer, didn't you?
I
I~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: I didn't know he was going to
change my -- I couldn't even print something this morning.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All right, that's what I'm
asking. All I'm asking is -- is a courtesy. I just don't
think it's, you know, right that somebody can do that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If he sends you an e-mail
that says, "I'm going to enter your computer at 2:37 a.m.
this morning and put a new e-mail system in," now you know.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
105
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it doesn't even have to
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sounds pretty simple to me.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. Notification is fine
for -- except for system upgrades from Windows, some of that
stuff. To me, we just need to do it. If we're going to
operate with these operating system, we need to get upgraded
versions of them, just like -- you know, I don't know. On
Acrobat, do you upgrade those automatically, or does --
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
', COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, this stuff's got to be
', upgraded continually, every -- all the stuff that we have.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's why I said --
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, every week there's some kind
of bulletin that says this has to be security updated.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're not -- if you're on your
personal computer at home, you turn it on and it just
happens. I mean, I presume John has to manually, at least,
~ tell it to go do it all.
MR. TROLINGER: As best I can, it's automated so
that we don't have to touch the computers, but there are
instances where the update does not install automatically or
it has to be manually installed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, here's -- send an
5-11-09
106
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
e-mail out, if you would, John, telling everyone how to
access the log. And, to me, try to notify people ahead of
time. And the request I have is, look into a system that
automatically lets them know what you've done.
MR. TROLINGER: Will do. I'll publish that on a
JUDGE TINLEY: You periodically send out e-mails
that say, you know, tonight beginning at approximately,
10 p.m., we're going to be doing update 26.1 or whatever.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
III JUDGE TINLEY: I see those coming through. I have
no idea what they mean, but I've seen them. And that's a
general update that you do.
MR. TROLINGER: That's -- that would be an example
of an all-county e-mail, everyone in the county.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And that's not your individual
computer; that's the mainframe stuff, that the system's going
to be down for this long. That's the Odyssey; that's the
mainframe. That's not what you have on your computer.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one quick related
question. Maybe others have experienced this every now and
then. One of these updates will show up on-screen in my
individual computer, and I ignore them thinking that you've
taken care of them. Is that correct?
5-11-09
107
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
MR. TROLINGER: No, that's not correct. You have
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I should -- I should do
what it says?
MR. TROLINGER: Yes. You have the option at this
point. That way, you're not interrupted from the current
work that you're on. You have a choice of initiating that
before you go to lunch, for instance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
MR. TROLINGER: You're welcome.
MR. EMERSON: I have an issue on Paragraph 3.9,
Reporting Violations, and I think that opens a giant can of
worms. I mean, how specific are you going to get? Is one
clerk supposed to report that the next one's accessing the
internet -- you know, MSN for some reason? And if you are
going to have a mandatory obligation to report, what's the
personnel action that goes with it if you don't?
MR. TROLINGER: That's a good point. Because I'm
looking at it towards the security standpoint. If you know
that someone's got access to someone else's files that
shouldn't, that's an example of something that should be
reported. As far as the policy of the computer use on the
internet, I would see that as a function of the department
head. That needs to be reported to the department head.
That would never be reported to I.T. Unless, you know,
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
108
there's some action that we need to take. How can we adjust
MR. EMERSON: I don't know how you're going to
define it. I mean, if you put "suspected violations of the
I.T. policy," the I.T. policy is 20 pages long. That
includes everything in there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think there's -- the
way it's written, it's kind of an obligation to report
suspected violations. If asked, I didn't, you know, think it
was a suspected violation.
MR. TROLINGER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think it's -- it's
one of those things, to me, that you need to have in a
policy, but it really doesn't do much.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's actually --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Unless it's flagrant.
I
JUDGE TINLEY: I think it's implied, as an
employee, when you agree to be bound by the policy by virtue
of your employment, that you have an obligation to -- to
report violations.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like if you see somebody
viewing inappropriate stuff --
~i JUDGE TINLEY: Pornography.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- on the Internet, I think
then there is an obligation to do it, you know, from both
5-11-09
109
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
sides. If you're, you know, looking at Cabela's for a minute
on your break, I mean, you know --
MS. UECKER: I have an additional I.T. policy, you
know, just for my office, and I think almost everybody does,
that addresses that issue. You know, it conforms to what the
County's is, 'cause I prepared it after we adopted this one.
I think Rusty did. I don't know if Jannett did or not, but,
you know, my individual I.T. policy just for my staff
addresses that issue.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, yours is more -- not
necessarily restrictive, but more -- more detailed.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. We have things like
you cannot access the internet for personal use, only
business-related, things like that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In our own department I.T.
policies that we have. And normally we can -- you know, if I
think I have a problem -- or most of the time John will call
me and say, "Hey, somebody in your dispatch last night was
doing all this kind of stuff," and internet --
MR. TROLINGER: You know, that's your standing
order, is you want to be notified of those things.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right, I do.
MR. TROLINGER: Other departments --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a standing order for
5-11-09
110
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
him to notify me.
MR. TROLINGER: Other departments, for instance, I
have no business in what they do on the internet, and it's
not my job to be the internet cop. But you've specified that
you wanted that, and that's your policy, so we've adopted
that as your policy.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Where are we, gentlemen? We
ready to take action? Are we going to -- we going to do a
little tweaking and refining and whatnot?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has the County Attorney's
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: I gather we're not ready to take
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, and then back on the
snitch issue. If I see -- you know, common sense would say
to me -- don't forget, I grew up out in Hunt, but common
sense says to me if I see somebody looking at pornography,
I'm going to report them to somebody. But if somebody's
looking at Cabela's catalog, damn, who cares? I mean, I
don't get that part. I'm not -- certainly not going to go
tell on somebody for -- please don't tell me that's what
I
we're talking about.
MR. TROLINGER: No. The policy states that
5-11-09
111
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
occasional use of the county resources is acceptable. I'm
and paying --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What are we snitching about,
then? Give me --
MR. TROLINGER: Security issues. If someone can
see files that they shouldn't be able to see, or have access
to court cases that they should not have access, that needs
to be brought up to the -- to the department head. That
department head needs to know that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, that makes sense.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or if someone downloads a -- or
tries to download a program without getting permission.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Or what I've had at times is
somebody logging into their My Space program, okay? While
they're on duty. And they may be even doing things such as
uploading accident scene photographs into that program.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's probably not good.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No.
MR. EMERSON: Hypothetically.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Hypothetically speaking, of
course. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those two.
5-11-09
112
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But those are the types of
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I'll make a motion
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for the
adoption of the policy with the amendments proposed by the
I.T. Manager. Question or discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: As amended?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: As amended.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And these issues that I'm
looking at here are the amendments?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, the three items.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about the courtesy
call?
II COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that's not part of the
agenda, as I look at it. I just asked him to do those couple
things, and he said he would.
MR. TROLINGER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And he said he would on tape,
so it's, you know --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, all we're doing here is
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
113
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- deleting it out of one
paragraph and moving it to another?
I', COMMISSIONER OEHLER: All this discussion we've
', been having for the last 30 minutes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Adding --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to third that
I motion.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Thank you, Mr.
', MR. TROLINGER: Well, thank you for your support.
JUDGE TINLEY: Been an enjoyable morning. Let's
move to Item 16; consider, discuss, and take appropriate
action to adopt a resolution commending retiring Airport
Board President Roger Bobertz for his years of service on the
Kerrville/Kerr County Airport Board of Directors.
I Commissioner Williams?
~,I COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge.
I
~~~ Mr. Bobertz has submitted his resignation, and there'll be a
5-11-09
114
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
reception honoring his service on the 22nd, I believe, of
May. And we have been requested to honor that service with a
resolution -- joint resolution with the City of Kerrville, so
that's what I put together, and I'll read it into the record.
"Resolution of Kerr County Commissioners Court and the City
of Kerrville City Council commending Roger Bobertz for his
years of service on the Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport
Board. Whereas, Roger Bobertz was first appointed to the
Kerrville/Kerr County Joint Airport Board in April 1999, and
reappointed for five additional terms; and whereas, the
Airport Board elected Roger Bobertz president in
September 2007, and he served with distinction in this
capacity until his retirement in May 2009; and whereas, prior
to serving in the public sector, Roger Bobertz had a
distinguished career with Union Carbide Corporation and Scott
Paper Company, bringing his years of business experience to
benefit the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport; and whereas,
during his tenure on the Kerr County Joint Airport Board,
many significant accomplishments took place at the airport,
most notably the construction of a general aviation terminal
building; and whereas, Rober Bobertz demonstrated his
enthusiasm for general aviation by earning his pilot's
license and flying often in his Mooney airplane. Now,
therefore, be it resolved, Kerr County Commissioners Court
and the City Council of the City of Kerrville, by adoption of
5-11-09
115
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
this resolution, hereby extend our thanks and appreciation to
Roger Bobertz for his years of service to the Kerrville/Kerr
County Joint Airport Board, and may he always experience good
flying weather and safe passage; and be it further resolved
that a signed copy of this resolution be presented to Roger
Bobertz on the occasion of his retirement event held in his
honor," et cetera, et cetera. Move adoption of the
resolution.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
adoption of the resolution as indicated. Question or
discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's move
to Item 17; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action
regarding whether or not to allow noncertified burn managers
to perform prescribed burns during a burn ban. Commissioner
Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda.
Based on the memo that came from the County Attorney that was
circulated to us, I put this on the agenda. And as I
understand it, we're -- our current burn ban order allows for
5-11-09
116
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
this, and I just want to make sure we're all on the same
page. And we have delegated it to NRCS office to keep track
of it, and if they approve a person to do a prescribed burn
during a burn ban, that's okay. Those people -- we kind of
handed it off to them, and they're doing it, so we have a
process in place. I think it's by order that's in place. I
just put it on here to make sure we don't have to do anything
else .
JUDGE TINLEY: Under the current order, any
approved by the NRCS, correct?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, or be by a certified
burn manager.
JUDGE TINLEY: Or by a certified burn manager.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have no --
JUDGE TINLEY: Same difference, essentially,
~ probably.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes and no. But certified burn
managers can burn under -- we have no control over them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Whereas NRCS, we do have
control over that process. And we pretty much let -- I mean,
and they're very restrictive. They don't have more than a
dozen, I think, you know, people on their list. There aren't
a lot of certified burn managers, for one thing. And then if
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
117
you have a private property owner who wants to burn, and
doesn't really have -- can't get a certified burn manager,
but has experience or knows the process, and can get the
equipment and can prove to NRCS that they're capable of
carrying it out, I think that's the -- that is -- and I have
one of those instances just recently at the Stowers Ranch.
JUDGE TINLEY: But they obtained the approval
through the NRCS?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's correct. And NRCS, in
turn, whenever they did get one of these requests, call the
Commissioner of the precinct to get their input.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And Jody gets a list from NRCS
with all of them listed on it, and I think Rusty probably --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. That's what I was going
to ask, is how do we know whether that was an approved one or
done by -- is there documentation they have that they can
show our officer? Or --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a list. Jody can just
forward it to you. Simple thing for Jody to forward to you,
or to the Sheriff's Department.
MS. GRINSTEAD: We don't get them that often, but
Joe Franklin will send me -- if there's a prescribed burn
coming up, he'll send an e-mail that I send out to all the
volunteer fire departments. You're in there too, I believe.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, because the Stowers
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
118
Ranch was one. But, you know, we were just told, you know,
they canceled it at that time originally, 'cause it was --
but then there was one I called Jonathan about that was done
in Kendall County, but at the Kendall/Kerr County line, that
they said this is a prescribed burn, and they lit that son of
a gun; it burned all over everywhere. Not out of control, it
was prescribed, but we were getting 50 calls on it, and all
we could tell people is, "Well, we're told it's a prescribed
burn." But we have no idea who, you know, what, what
approval. I mean --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: If that was Kendall County,
that wouldn't solve it. And I know occasionally, we get a
list from Joe Franklin. We might -- you might send one, you
know, put it on file every so often that we get an updated
list of who -- people that have, you know, burn plans for
that year, kind of ongoing, but it's -- we're pretty much
done with the burning season for this -- you know, for
this -- right now.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I just don't know how we know.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Could we get Rusty a
courtesy e-mail?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A red flag on it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: With a red flag.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've be been trying to
encourage people in my area, they need to call the Sheriff's
5-11-09
119
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Office, let them know, as well as volunteer fire departments.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: In fact --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That is part of the
requirements, is to notify proper authorities.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And they have to -- if they're
not following the burn plan that they file with NRCS, if
they're not calling the Sheriff's Department prior to the
burn --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And they do, okay? And we get
that notice. It's just saying, you know, we're going to do a
prescribed burn. Well, who are you and, you know, how do we
know you even can?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do we routinely get -- Jody
or somebody -- get this burn/do not burn checklist? Do we
see that? Do you see that, Jody? It's in this order, back
on the last page of this order.
MR. TROLINGER: Sheriff, is the Code Red system
appropriate to use to notify these -- notify the, you know,
affected areas of the prescribed burns?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. I mean, we can use it
for that. I'd like to know that I am sending out a
legitimate prescribed burn. You know, I don't want to notify
people that, "Oh, don't call in any more on this fire; it's a
prescribed burn," and then it burns down half the country and
it was an illegal one.
5-11-09
120
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 'Cause if we do, that can
I don't think we get copies of them.
I've not seen them.
MS. GRINSTEAD: No, we don't. I've never seen
them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: These are the ones -- this form
is one, I guess, done by NRCS. All of them are pretty
similar. There's -- you know, different groups have
different takes on them, but -- but something is filed.
Well, I'll get hold of Joe, and also -- he's getting ready to
II probably move to San Angelo, so I'll visit with him or
I
~~ whoever's going to be taking this up for him, and make sure
that we get, you know, whatever -- whenever the list is
modified, to send us a copy of it. Then we can forward it;
we can get it distributed to everybody.
MR. EMERSON: Just as a point of discussion, what
about requiring a noncertified burn manager to file a copy of
their prescribed burn plan with Jody prior to the burn? That
way you have all the specifications on it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you -- I mean, my
thought would be -- 'cause we do them. We will frequently --
you don't necessarily -- you base your burn plan on the
weather conditions, not on a date, you know, usually. And
5-11-09
121
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
you usually plan for it based on the weather; then you make a
last-minute call so you can do it.
MR. EMERSON: Correct, but once you go through --
if you're not a certified burn manager, once you go through
and you receive approval from the Department of Agriculture
or whoever, then theoretically, you have a written plan
', that's very specific that's going to be completed on whatever
', you burn.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. Yeah, we can do
that. We can get a copy of the burn plans, keep them for a
year.
MS. GRINSTEAD: Get that from Joe Franklin?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll mention it to him.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That wouldn't be a bad idea.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That way we have something in
our files that shows these people can burn, and then --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you -- it just shows
the intent that they have a plan to burn whenever the
conditions are right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, is that burn ban
checklist a part of that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good.
JUDGE TINLEY: What action, if any, does the Court
5-11-09
122
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
need to take at this point in time?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think anything, 'cause
you are -- I think it's all in our current court order.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: He's shaking his head no.
MR. EMERSON: No, cause the Department of
~ Agriculture states specifically that, quote, the County
should require a written burn plan -- burn plan prepared by
an appropriately trained and experienced individual, blab,
blab, blab, and it goes on. So, I think if you want that
document filed prior to the burn with the court, you need to
state that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'll make a motion that
we require a burn plan be filed with the Commissioners Court
for any burns to be conducted during a burn ban period.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion on that motion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Let's move to
Item 18; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
adopt a resolution opposing the Blair Holts Firearm Licensing
5-11-09
123
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
and Record Act of 2009. Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm real excited about
this. We all were notified by a gentleman asking us to
address this thing, and I got stuck with it. But this
resolution here is exactly the resolution -- I changed
"Bandera County" to "Kerr County," is the only changes.
Bandera county adopted it, and they tell me that all counties
in the state are adopting it as they go along. I'm just not
that familiar with the Second Amendment to the Constitution.
I'd also -- you know, it's things like this one "whereas"
here, to protect the general private users of firearms in
activities such as hunting and other sporting activities. I
didn't know that that was part of the Second Amendment. And,
I mean, I'm just -- I just don't know, so I've struggled with
that a little bit. My understanding is the Second Amendment
is for me to protect myself against the wild-eyed government,
and I'm all for that. So, you guys that are more in tune to
the Constitution than I am, if this looks like a solid, firm,
in tune with the legislation, then I'm -- I think that we
should adopt it, but if it's not, you know, let me know.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's your agenda item. Are you
moving for adoption?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for adoption.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
124
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I'll make is that,
you know, I have no problem with it as it is. I'm not all
that familiar with the Blair Holts Firearm Licensing, Record
or Sale Act, and my concern is, these resolutions, I would
prefer them to have more of a concept to them, rather than
citing a specific bill, because they may change the name of
the bill, and then it doesn't apply any more. But that being
said, it's on the agenda; I'll vote for it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any further question or discussion
on the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by
raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Item 19,
consider, discuss, take appropriate action on authorizing a
commissioner or the County Judge to represent the County at
City Council meetings concerning any agenda item relating to
funding of airport capital projects or E.I.C. Commissioner
Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda at the
-- after the last Airport Board meeting, not knowing what the
City was going to put on their agenda. It was kind of --
5-11-09
125
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
that's why I worded it this way. And the City Council does
have on their agenda for tomorrow night an item -- I'm going
to paraphrase -- authorizing City Council to concur, or to
agree that the County is going to put their funding portion
of the drainage runway relocation project, Phase 2, on their
agenda for approval. And my logic behind this is -- or lack
of logic, is this is a -- this is a --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This meeting has kind of
gone south here.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a very political issue,
and I think we're in one mind-set, that we feel -- at least I
feel, and I think the whole Court feels the E.I.C. funding
should be eligible for projects at the airport, and outside
city limits. I just -- my understanding was that at the last
City Council meeting, one of the councilmen went off on a
dissertation about how horrible it was to do just those two
things, that being Councilman Coleman. And, you know, I
just -- if this is going to get into the public press, I
would rather have someone from the Court present to -- as a
rebuttal to them going off, you know, ranting about what they
think. And they haven't taken any action as a -- as a
Council whether they're going to change their policy, 'cause
in the past they have funded projects at the airport and they
have funded projects in the county. So, that was the reason
for the agenda item. The agenda item for tomorrow tonight is
5-11-09
126
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
very specific.
JUDGE TINLEY: For the County's portion of the
funding for Phase 2.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, that's correct. And the
-- the way the joint airport agreement is written, neither
entity can individually, without the consent of the other
anyway, go for a grant. And this is viewed as a grant by the
City Attorney, who also advises the airport.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I couldn't agree with you
more. Which one of you guys want it?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Letz has
really been angling for this.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: That was a motion?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a motion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I guess -- and I don't
mind going, but the question is, what do you want me to say?
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "No." No.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
127
know you probably think this project should qualify, but I
think it is a relatively little fish at the moment because
of --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a bigger issue.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- because they found more
money. I'm more concerned about the big issue. This
particular issue, I think we have the funds in our general
fund largely due to a $166,000 sales tax pocket of money that
came in unexpectedly, so it's not going to be a budget-buster
for us to pull into our general fund to get this money. But
I really want the City Council to address this at some point,
that -- that the airport projects --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- should be eligible for this
funding, and that they're going to support it. I won't
say --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This particular -- this
particular one, you're not real interested whether they pick
up the tab on it or not because we have some extra... Why --
why wouldn't have you the attitude of E.I.C. money should
cover the whole dadgum thing? I don't get that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, the City has come out and
said they're not going to go to E.I.C. for their portion of
it, for whatever reason. I don't know what their logic is.
The 400,000 to come up with, the Airport Board is going to
5-11-09
128
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
use $250,000 of their reserve, which leaves 75,000 for the
County and 75,000 for the City. I agree with you. I mean,
it's -- and this, you know --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The City chooses not to
because they have money elsewhere. Well, I would think the
County chooses to.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That would be my attitude.
County chooses to go to E.I.C. for the money.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's exactly where
it is. We do choose to, and we asked the Airport Board to
advance an application on our behalf for that piece. So, I
think so. That leaves a broader, deeper philosophical issue
here that has to get fleshed out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And my reason for this
is that if they vote not to do this, not to want the County
to do it, I just would -- you know, and it gets -- you know,
depending on what some members of the Council may or may not
say, I just think we need to have someone present. But they
may not let that person speak anyway, so...
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you going to take Rusty
with you? I mean --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Send him an e-mail.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, what do you think? Is
it worthwhile for someone to be there or not?
5-11-09
129
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause I know you're -- I mean,
I differed with you on this topic at the last meeting.
JUDGE TINLEY: But for the -- but for the sudden
discovery of $250,000 that was in reserves that was,
according to reports I got, found that very day, I think it
was the City's intention to go to E.I.C. for the local match
participation for Phase 2. I think -- I think that was what
the agenda item probably was more directed to when the
Airport Board put it on the Council's agenda item last time.
And then, to the surprise of virtually everyone present, we
didn't have the $400,000 problem; we only have a $150,000
problem. And I think the Council's action in -- in amending
their budget to provide for the City's payment of $75,000 out
of the general fund was probably a good way to avoid the very
issue that you and I think needs to be resolved as a matter
of principle. And I still don't know but what they may, at
some subsequent date, go to E.I.C. and ask for a
reimbursement of that $75,000.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Certainly, there -- there have been
instances in the past where they have paid an obligation out
of the city general fund, and then had subsequently sought
and received reimbursement from E.I.C. for economic
development type items, which you and I both view this as.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
130
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, I think there's an issue insofar
', as the legal interpretation of applying for the grant. If
the application were being made on behalf of both the City
and the County, I think there would have to be concurrence in
giving permission to the Airport Board by both bodies, the
City and the County, for the Airport Board to make that
application. The -- the language in applying, it says "each
party." If the application is only being made by the County,
I think another interpretation of that provision of the
interlocal agreement could be that as long as whoever that
application for a grant is being made on behalf of gives
permission, the other body has no dog in the fight;
therefore, is not required. So -- but that seems to be a
reservation of a legal issue. So --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On one statement you made,
based on their interpretation, they cannot go to E.I.C. for
-- to get reimbursed without our permission. Because they're
saying that we can't go, and so they're also saying that they
can't go.
JUDGE TINLEY: I would suggest to you -- I would
suggest to you that their interpretation might be different
from what you said.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know, though.
Reimbursement is different from a grant application. I think
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
131
they can.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, it's an interesting
point, too. And, incidentally, -- just quickly; I know it's
about lunchtime -- the $250,000 that was found, it was
brought up and explained. I think Josh did a pretty good job
of explaining it. The funds -- I think Jeannie was there
too. You might have to help me with this. But due to -- the
prior Airport Manager, Mr. Pearce, kept a lot of this stuff
in his head, and kind of how the money was tracked, and it
wasn't tracked as well before Mr. McKenzie came on board, and
during that period was when this money was kind of put in a
reserve fund over there that really wasn't real well known
how much was in there. And Josh found out the amount that
was there by basically auditing how much money was in the
reserve account and how many projects they currently have
going, and what the status of those were and what payables
were outstanding, and there was a difference, and it was
there where the money was determined to be there. It came
from a project several years ago to this fund. Which project
was it, Bill?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think -- I think
the capital improvement program had this taxiway relocation
for some time, and each time it became a part of our CIP, and
we also -- we put money systematically into it. And then it
got forgotten about, so to speak, and then they go to E.I.C.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
132
and get the money to make the match.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And the moneys that have
been put up by the City and County prior are sitting over
i
there. And everybody said, "Oh, wonder where that came
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They lumped it into capital
projects, and they don't really segregate each line item, but
they do segregate it, so it's kind of confusing.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, I was somewhat surprised that
the Airport Board did not know what funds they had available
for airport use, capital projects, budget surpluses or
whatever. You recall when -- when the airport people were
here with us at a special meeting, that apparently
immediately following this last budget year, or about the end
of it, they discovered that they had $140,000 that they were
not aware that they had. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- I think any agency ought to know
what funds they have available to them.
I~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that -- and those -- that
140,000 came about by one of the board members, Stephen King,
asking the question. "We had a good year; our revenues were
up and our expenses were down. What happens to this money?"
And, the answer was, "Oh, well, you've got 140,000 in reserve
5-11-09
133
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
now."
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of the reasons, Judge,
is that I don't think the Airport Board has ever
systematically seen a balance sheet down through the years.
If they'd seen a balance sheet, they might have known that
they had some cash reserves.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway, back to this
issue, is it -- I mean, I'll be glad to go if the Court as a
whole thinks that I should go, wants me to go. I'll be glad
not to go if it's just -- if it's not necessary.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have a -- we have a motion and a
second that you be designated as the County's representative
I
for the purposes as expressed in the agenda item, according
to my understanding. You made the motion; correct,
Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: And you seconded, Commissioner
I Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is also correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. Do we have any further
discussion? Questions? All in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You're covered.
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
5-11-09
134
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Why don't
we talk about the bills before we go to Item 20, which we'll
take up lastly.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's very short.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. We'll go to Section 4 of the
agenda, payment of the bills.
I COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a couple of
questions. On Page 7, the Child Service Board, birthday
moneys. And I'm curious about this, because I haven't seen
this in a good, long time. Months.
MS. HARGIS: No, you haven't, because they had
somebody new take over, and we have asked for a report and
how much they needed, and they finally got us a report. So,
we've gone several months; in fact, I think almost since
September. They had a change in management there, and the
lady who did it left, and nobody else knew how to do it. And
we call every month to try to get them, but they didn't know
how to give them to us.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Is this -- do you
think that this group here brings us up to date, and
everything in the arrears?
MS. HARGIS: I can't tell you that for sure. I do
know that I did not authorize her to pay any past birthday
money, because I -- you know, I'm sorry, because I don't know
5-11-09
135
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
if those kids would get it. But anything forward through
now, I have authorized. But they had some that were old, and
I said no, we're not paying those, 'cause we don't know if
the kids are going to get them or not.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, we don't know
if they're going to get this either, but that's beside the
point. Okay, thank you for that. Another thing I noticed,
on Page 8, Freeman-Fritts shelter, seven through -- there's a
whole list of them, vet services and operating expenses and
all that. What I'm noticing on here are the dates, like
February of '08 and April of '08 and May of '08, on down the
line. I've always understood that when we have -- when we
start a new budget, that we run 30 days or so to take care of
those from the previous budget, but here we're in over a
year. What's the story?
MS. HARGIS: We had some bills from this company --
from this veterinarian service last year, and we asked them
to be checked, and they didn't get paid. And so they wrote
us a letter and called us and said, you know, we really need
these bills paid. So we went through and checked to make
sure that we had not paid this. We had the Animal Shelter
Director come in and review these bills, and they had not
been paid, so we owed them, and regardless of whether they
were last year or this year, we needed to pay them. And they
are late; they're over a year, some of them. So, I don't
5-11-09
136
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
know the exact system that she goes through with these.
These are trays. I think -- I understand the shots that she
-- shots that she gets for the animals --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not paid because --
I mean, have you been sitting on the bills and just refused
to pay them for a year? Or why -- why is it that they
weren't paid?
MS. HARGIS: Some of the bills -- I think some of
', them, originally, we -- the director felt they had been paid
and felt they had been paid, and then when we researched
them, they had not been paid. There's a -- there's a kind of
-- this particular entity doesn't apparently bill anyone but
us, and so there's kind of a problem here with that. And,
you know, to be honest with you, I'm not exactly sure of the
exact procedures that we go through with this particular vet.
I do know that they provide us these trays, and that's pretty
much all I know, except that apparently they're not used to
billing anyone else but us, and so they do get behind. And
so we're kind of -- and then we try to pay them. But some of
them, we thought -- I think the director thought they had
been paid, and then they came back again and said they had
not, so we didn't show any record of payment, so we --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: -- felt obligated to pay for what we
had purchased.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
137
JUDGE TINLEY: Are there funds in the current
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: We'll have to move some amendments,
I but she has the funds.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions? Anyone care to
offer a motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Move we pay the bills.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for payment
of the bills. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Do we have any
budget amendments?
MS. HARGIS: Not at this time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills?
MS. HARGIS: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: We just had some late bills, didn't
we? I have been presented with monthly reports from
~, Constable, Precinct l; Road and Bridge; County Clerk; Justice
5-11-09
138
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the reports as presented. Question or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Reports from
Commissioners in connection with their liaison assignments?
Commissioner 4?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 1?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner 2?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Couple things. Kerr County
job report for the month of March, our unemployment rate was
down from February. It was reported for March at
5.2 percent, down two-tenths of a point from the previous
month. There's some grants that were approved that have some
5-11-09
139
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
benefit to Kerr County. First of all was the infrastructure
grant, on-site septic replacements. That went through with a
favorable review in the amount of $262,500. City of
Kerrville got a Hill Country Combined Special Operations Unit
grant favorable review or award for $6,200. Let me see what
else here. Some smaller ones that benefit deputy training
under TCLEOSE, and a few other smaller grants which Kerr
County will be a participant in some of that if we're
approved. And then there's one for the Baptist services --
Baptist Child and Family Services, Health and Human Services
Youth Diverted from Delinquency program; they got almost a
hundred thousand dollars, $99,993. One other thing I wanted
to bring to the Court's attention, Judge, if you will, we've
had a lot of discussion over the last several months in the
rural judges meeting, aside from the AACOG board, with
respect to the formation of an Alamo Regional Rural Planning
Organization for transportation issues which would complement
the metropolitan planning organization, and at the last rural
~' judges meeting, we tweaked these and finally adopted Alamo
Regional Rural Planning Organization Articles of
Incorporation, bylaws and so forth and so on. I'll give it
to you for your study. If there's any questions or comments
that you have on them, direct them to me and we'll go from
there. But this is to allow the rural counties that surround
the metropolitan planning organization working with TexDOT to
5-11-09
140
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
be involved in all transportation issues that make a lot of
sense or that don't make any sense, and let that be known.
The most forceful example would be, had this organization
been involved when the Trans-Texas Corridor had been
proposed, it might not have got as much traction as it really
did, or excited so many people. We'd have had better
understanding of it going in. So, that's kind of it, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Commissioner 3?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just an update on the
legislation I've been working on in Austin. It looks like
it's going to have a slow death. It's in calendars. It has
not got out of calendars. Representative Rose is working
hard to get it out, but it has until Thursday midnight to get
out, and it's just -- the clock is ticking on it. And that's
what happens to much legislation in Austin; it just gets kind
of stuck there. It still may come out, but it may not. I
talked to people in Kendall County this morning about it a
little bit, and, you know, I guess the good news is, I think
it's -- if it, worst case, doesn't come out, doesn't go
anywhere this year, it's in a position to be acted on a lot
quicker next session. The bill's pretty much written now,
but just -- that's just the way things go sometimes up there,
and we'll have to see. Still a couple days, but it doesn't
look real, real good.
JUDGE TINLEY: I had a discussion with
5-11-09
141
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Representative Hilderbran Saturday evening and asked him
about the status of that, and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two-step.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, actually, my question to him
is, "Have you added Kerr County to the bill?" And he said
no, it was his intention to add all counties in his district
to the bill when it got to the floor, counties who had passed
resolutions in support of either the bill or what the bill
I', contained. But he said that the likelihood that it's going
to get to the floor is pretty slim at this point. It has to
get there pretty quick. Essentially, the same thing you got.
Do we have any reports from elected officials? Department
heads? Sheriff?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just real quick, y'all had --
I know it had come up about our medical contracts and that.
This is their -- it's really not a quarterly report, 'cause
the first two months they were getting organized, but it --
so you can look at it. If you have more questions, you can
ask me more. But very briefly and basically, I'll say we're
tickled to death with it. It's worked real well. Our
monthly prescription cost, just to give you an example, has
dropped over $2,000 a month, okay? Major improvement with
the way they're doing this.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you -- so, I'm
taking the term "tickled to death" as --
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
142
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm happy with it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a good -- okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jeez, I'll send you an e-mail
and give you an explanation, Buster. Commissioner, did you
say something about a grant from -- for training for
deputies?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, there's some money
going into TCLEOSE. I'll tell you about it afterwards.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 'Cause I haven't heard
I
I anything about that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll share it with you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other elected officials have
anything? Department heads? Ms. Hargis?
MS. HARGIS: I just came back from a meeting with
the Texas Association of Auditors last week, and I do want to
just kind of make y'all aware to keep watching that revenue
cap bill, because that is out there. And Tommy Williams is
threatening to sign any type of a bill like that that he gets
across his desk, to try to push it. It's not a good bill.
The way it's written is not good. So, kind of keep your eye
out. I don't know where Hilderbran stands on that, but we --
they still have, what, 15 days left to do what they want to
do. And they're concerned it may end up as an amendment or a
rider or something of that nature, so we -- we really need to
be careful with that one. They aren't going to change the
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
143
appraisals, but the revenue cap -- and it -- it's set to --
according to them, that we'd hit that 5 percent without even
turning around. So, it's going to be a bad bill. So,
hopefully it won't pass, but if you do see it, I know y'all
get the little alerts as well, and so please watch them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you. Any other reports?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's a TAC notice on our
e-mail right now about that topic of the three bills, Senate
Bill 700 by Patrick, and Eltife and Gattis and by Williams,
and they all bear your reading.
MS. HARGIS: Yeah, Gattis is the one that they say
i
is the one you need to be aware of, the one that Gattis has
got. Patrick's --
JUDGE TINLEY: Patrick bill is a --
MS. HARGIS: Patrick's bill hasn't gotten anywhere
very much. But --
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, it's not a revenue cap bill.
It's a -- it's a rollback bill, if I'm not mistaken, if it's
the same one I'm thinking about.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, what they're saying
about the Gattis bill, House Bill 2291, is that it's, quote,
a transparency bill which started out that way, and passed by
the House on May 7th, and could face attempts in the Senate
to amend it into a revenue cap bill. There's where the
danger lies.
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
144
MS. HARGIS: That's where they say the danger is.
But the other thing, the transparency -- that did remind me.
You know, I heard, and I don't know for sure, because we --
we had a company that came to give us a demonstration on how
we would put that transparency on the computer and -- you
know, kind of a software vendor. But they said they changed
the population number to 250,000, so we won't have to do
I that .
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that's this year.
Next time they meet, then they lower it to 50,000.
MS. HARGIS: Well, hopefully we don't have to do
that. I mean, we're showing the transparency now. It goes
out there every week -- every two weeks, we put it online.
It's the drilling down into our system that -- that will cost
us a lot of money to have done, and that opens us up for
security problems and everything else. So, you know,
hopefully -- hopefully, they'll bring it down in increments
of 100,000, Commissioner Williams. Let's hope for the best.
Okay, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other reports from elected
officials? Department heads? Okay. At this time, we will
go into recess of the Commissioners Court meeting, and it is
12:18, to go into executive session to consider an item on
the agenda.
5-11-09
145
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
(The open session was closed at 12:18 p.m., and an
executive session was held, the transcript of which
is contained in a separate document.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's go back into open or
public session at 12:26. Any member of the Court have
anything to offer with respect to anything that was
considered in executive or closed session? Okay, I gather
not. Anything further to come before the Court today?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I just cannot -- I've
been scratching my brain; I can't come up with anything.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's amazing.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- if you think of anything, we'll
get to it in a couple of weeks.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. We'll be adjourned.
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:27 p.m.)
5-11-09
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
146
STATE OF TEXAS ~
COUNTY OF KERR
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 15th day of May, 2009.
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y . _____ G~__ ~ ______ _ _
Kathy B nik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
5-11-09
ORDER NO.31288
HEART OF THE HILLS BARREL RACING USE OF HILL COUNTRY YOUTH EXHIBIT
CENTER
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 3-0-0
to:
Approve adding Heart of the Hills Barrel Racing to the Non-profit list for a reduced rate at the
Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center.
ORDER NO. 31289
RESOLUTION FOR KERR COUNTY JUVENILE PROBATION DEPARTMENT
SUBMISSION TO EDWARD BYRNE MEMORIAL JUSTICE ASSISTANCE FORMULA
GRANT PROGRAM FOR FY 2009-2010 FUNDING
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 3-0-
0 to:
Approve amended Resolution, including adding in the first Whereas "that application be made
by the Kerr County Sheriffs Department and the Kerr County Juvenile Probation
Department", for submission by the Kerr County Juvenile Probation Department for American
Recovery & Reinvestment Act of 2009; Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Formula
Grant Program funding for FY 2009-2010 to the Office of the Governor, Criminal Justice
Division to fund the vehicles and radio equipment.
ORDER N0.31290
IKON RICOH MP 5000 COPY MACHINE CONTRACTS FOR COUNTY CLERK'S OFFICE
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 3-0-0
to:
Approve Two (2) Ikon Ricoh MP 5000 Copy Machine Contracts for the County Clerk's Office,
as amended to add the language "to the extent allowed by law", and authorize County Judge to
sign same.
ORDER NO. 31291
BID BY CITY OF KERRVILLE FOR PROPERTY CURRENTLY HELD IN TRUST BY
KERR COUNTY
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 3-
0-0 to:
Accept bid made by City of Kerrville for property currently held in trust by Kerr County,
described as JA Tivy Addn, Blk 52, Lots 5, 6, 7 & 8 pts, located on Ross Street, Kerrville, Texas.
ORDER NO. 31292
FINAL PLAT FOR FRANCISCO'S PLACE
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioners Oehler/Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a
vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve Final Plat for Francisco's Place, located in Precinct 1.
ORDER NO. 31293
PUBLIC HEARING FOR REVISION OF PLAT FOR TRACTS 8, 9 AND 10 OF KERRVILLE
RANCHETTES
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner Oehler,
seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve setting a Public Hearing June 22, 2009 at 10:00 a.m. for Revision of Plat for Tracts 8, 9
and 10 of Kerrville Ranchettes, located in Precinct 4.
ORDER NO. 31294
NAME A PRIVATE ROAD "FOSSIL RIDGE" ROAD
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner Oehler,
seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve naming a Private Road "Fossil Ridge" Rd., per 911 guidelines, located in Precinct 4.
ORDER NO. 31295
IMPLEMENTATION OF BURN BAN
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioners Oehler/Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a
vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve implementation of Burn Ban.
ORDER NO. 31296
CLOSE OF RIVERSIDE DRIVE ON MAY 22, 2009 FROM 5:00 TO 11:00 P.M.
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0
(Commissioner Letz appeared in Court at this point) to:
Approve closing Riverside Drive from the Texas Arts & Crafts west property line to Kerr
County Youth Exhibit Center east property line on May 22, 2009, from 5:00 p.m. until 11:00
p.m.
ORDER NO. 31297
VACATE LOTS 216-2221N CENTER POINT ESTATES, UNIT II
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0
to:
Approve setting a Public Hearing for June 22, 2009 at 10:05 a.m. for vacating lot lines on lots
216-222 in Center Point Estates, Unit II, as recorded in Vol. 3, Page 103, Kerr County Plat
records.
ORDER NO. 31298
VACATING A PUBLIC ROAD IN CENTER POINT ESTATES, UNIT II
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioners Oehler/Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote
of 4-0-0 to:
Approve setting a Public Hearing for June 22, 2009 at 10:10 a.m. for abandoning a public road
easement in Center Point Estates, Unit II, as recorded in Vol. 3, Page 103, Kerr County Plat
records.
ORDER NO. 31299
AMENDMENT TO KERB COUNTY INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY POLICY
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by
Commissioners Williams/Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Amendment to Kerr County Information Technology Policy as follows:
Delete the sentence under paragraph 3.5 and move to anew paragraph 3.9
All Kerr County employees and/or representatives have the obligation to report suspected
violations of this policy to their elected official, department head, or in the
alternative Commissioners Court.
Add paragraph 3.9 to read as follows:
3.9 Reporting Violations
All Kerr County employees and/or representatives have the obligation to report suspected
violations of this policy to their elected official, department head, Information
Technology, or in the alternative Commissioners Court.
Change paragraph 3.8 to read as follows, addition in italics.
3.8 Confidential Data
Information technology staff shall be responsible for maintaining the integrity and
confidentiality of information viewed during troubleshooting and monitoring of the
county's network. Information Technology staff will adhere to the strictest standards,
including all statutory requirements, of confidentiality.
All county records, including electronic records with the exception of judicial records,
are subject to the Public Information Act.
4.3 Software Purchases
Only copyrighted software, authorized for use and/or purchased in compliance with Kerr
County's software procurement policies, will be eligible for payment. Only original
manufacturer's copyrighted software will be eligible for purchase and payment. The Kerr
County Information Technology Department is responsible for safekeeping of all software
purchased including licenses and media. License agreements will be kept as the property
of Kerr County. A copy of the license agreement may be kept by an elected official or
department head.
Core software system purchases are to be approved by the commissioners' court in
accordance with all statutory requirements and Kerr County policy.
New Paragraph:
4.7 Kerr County Electronic Information Systems
IAW LGC 191.008 The commissioners' court has provided the following systems;
Financial and Human Resources; In code
Integrated Criminal Justice Information Systems; Odyssey Law Enforcement, Jail, Case
Manager, and Prosecutor.
Vital and Land Records; Edoc Suite
Commissioners Court records, County and District clerk records, and general imaging;
Laserfiche and Papervision
ORDER NO. 31300
RESOLUTION COMMENDING RETIRING AIRPORT BOARD PRESIDENT ROGER
BOBERTZ
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-
0 to:
Approve Resolution commending retiring Airport Board President Roger Bobertz for his years of
service on the Kerrville/Kerr County Airport Board of Directors.
ORDER NO. 31301
ALLOW NON-CERTIFIED BURN MANAGERS TO PERFORM PRESCRIBED BURNS
DURING A BURN BAN
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner Letz,
seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve requiring the Burn Plan be filed with the Commissioners' Court for any burns to be
conducted during a burn ban period.
ORDER NO. 31302
RESOLUTION OPPOSING THE "BLAIR HOLTS" FIREARM LICENSING AND RECORD
ACT OF 2009
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0
to:
Approve Resolution opposing the "Blair Holts" Firearm Licensing and Record Act of 2009.
ORDER N0.31303
AUTHORIZING COMMISSIONER OR COUNTY JUDGE TO REPRESENT THE COUNTY
AT A CITY COUNCIL MEETING RELATING TO FUNDING OF AIRPORT CAPITAL
PROJECTS OR EIC
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner
Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-
0-0 to:
Approve authorizing Commissioner Letz or the County Judge to represent Kerr County at City
Council Meetings concerning any agenda item relating to funding of airport capital projects or
EIC.
ORDER NO.31304
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, came to be considered by the Court various
Commissioners Precincts, which said Claims and Accounts are:
Accounts Expense
10-General	$	231,216.48
12-Election Services	$	3,600.00
15-Road & Bridge	$	116,557.88
18-County Law Library	$	726.00
21-Title IV-#	$	3,652.37
26-JP Technology	$	1,175.33
27-Juv Intensive Prog-State	$	1,416.50
41-Records Archival	$	66,177.00
50-Indigent Health Care	$	5,123.12
76-Juv Detention Facility	$	79.50
83-216' District Attorney	$	535.32
TOTAL $ 430,259.50
Upon motion made by Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court
unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to pay the claims and accounts.
ORDER NO. 31305
MONTHLY REPORTS
Came to be heard this the 11th day of May, 2009, with a motion made by Commissioner Oehler,
seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Monthly Reports from:
Constable Pct # 1
Road & Bridge
County Clerk
JP #2
Constable Pct #4
JP #3