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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Regular Session
Monday, February 8, 2010
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, CommissionerPct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
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I N D E X
February 8, 2010
--- Commissioners' Comments
1.1 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
award bid(s) for construction of new Law
Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation Building
and related improvements
1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
adopting fee schedule for protective custody
animals
1.4 Presentation on technology and methodology of
Acoustic Bathometry used in surveying freshwater
lakes such as Flat Rock Lake
1.5 Public Hearing regarding the installation of
30 mph speed limit signs on Red Bird Loop,
Precinct 2
1.3 Consider/discuss, approve consolidating polling
locations for Republican or Democratic run-off
election into four locations
1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve installing four 30 mph speed limit signs
on Red Bird Loop, Precinct 2
1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve private road name, Sheri Lane NW,
Precinct 4
1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve final alternate plat for Lots 1& 2 of
Stevens Ranch, Precinct 2
1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve final alternate plat for Lot 76 of
Stone Leigh Ranch, Precinct 2
1.10 Acknowledge receipt of quarterly investment
report from Patterson and Associates for
quarter ending 12-31-09
l.ll Report to Commissioners Court of the status of
investments made under Section 887(b) of the
Probate Code
1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
regarding emergency helicopter medical services
procedures involving AirLIFE, AirEvac, and
Kerrville EMS
1.12 Update on Friday morning jail docket from
Ralph Behrens
1.14 Request audit from the Hill Country District
Junior Livestock Show for 2008-2009 and
2009-2010 for grant purposes
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I N D E X(Continued)
February 8, 2010
1.15 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the
submission of General Victim Assistance-Direct
Services Program grant proposal for 2010-2011
1.16 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the
submission of grant proposal to Sterling-Turner
Foundation in Houston
1.17 Consider/discuss, approve resolution for the
submission of grant proposal to the Hal & Charlie
Peterson Foundation
1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
implementation of the burn ban
1.19 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
confirm nomination of Lt. Bill Hill as Kerr
County AACOG representative on Criminal Justice
Advisory Committee, and Lt. Jeffrey Wendling as
his alternate
1.20 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
reappoint Bobbie Lesser and Patsy Lackey to
AACOG Criminal Justice Advisory Committee;
Patsy Lackey as committee member and Bobbie
Lesser as her alternate
1.21 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
authorize request for bids/proposals to construct
new outdoor rodeo arena at Hill County Youth
Exhibit Center
1.22 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve contract with ImageTek, Inc. for
scanning and indexing of records in County
Clerk's office in accordance with approved
2009-10 Archival Plan, and authorize County
Judge to sign same
4.1 Pay Bills
4.2 Budget Amendments
4.3 Late Bills
4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports
5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee
Assignments
5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads
--- Adjourned
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the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R 0 C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
~ Thank you for being here. Let me call to order this
regularly scheduled meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners
Court posted and scheduled for this date and time, Monday,
February 8th, 2010, at 9 a.m. It is that time now.
Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you please rise and
join me in the pledge of allegiance followed by a moment of
prayer, which will be led by the senior -- new senior pastor
of Zion Lutheran Church, the Reverend Michael Williams.
(Pledge of allegiance and prayer.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's
any member of the audience or public that wishes to be heard
on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is your
opportunity to come forward and tell us what's on your mind.
If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we would ask that
you fill out a participation form. There should be some
located at the rear of the room. That helps me to be aware
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that there is someone that wishes to be heard on that item so
that I don't pass over it and -- and not call on them for
their thoughts and comments on the matter. If -- if you
should wish to be heard on an agenda item and you haven't
filled out a participation form, that's fine too. Just get
my attention in some manner, and I'll give you that
opportunity. But right now, if there's any member of the
public or the audience here today that wishes to be heard on
any matter that is not a listed agenda item, come forward at
this time and tell us what's on your mind. Seeing no one
coming forward, we will move on. Commissioner Williams, what
do you have for us this morning?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a word about Friday
night. We had a political forum over in Center Point, the
school district, and it was attended by the -- the opponents
in the County Attorney's race and J.P. race, well attended by
the local folks. I want to thank you, Judge, and other
elected officials who were unopposed for making an appearance
and saying hello to the folks over there. It was well
attended, lasted about an hour and a half, and I think the
County Attorney candidates were tired by the end of the
evening, but a good time was had by all. And the important
thing is that the questions that needed to be asked with
respect to the operation of both the County Attorney's office
and the J.P.'s' office were asked, and the answers were very
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JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think I have anything
this morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we spent yesterday with
about 15 Cajuns watching the football game, and on the back
of one of them's car, they had a sticker that said, "The
i
Saints will win the Superbowl when pigs fly and hell freezes
over." I just wanted you to know, 10 miles down the
interstate this morning, there were nine pigs and a sow
flying overhead. (Laughter.) I saw the devil sitting on the
bench out here with a big old buffalo robe on. So, anyway,
that's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin, can you top
that one?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No way.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't top that one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No savvy English.
(Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I'm not going to touch it.
I'm not going to touch it. Let's get started on our agenda.
The first item on the agenda is to consider, discuss, and
25 ~ take appropriate action to award the bids for the
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and related improvements. Mr. Lewis.
MR. LEWIS: Morning, Judge, Commissioners.
JUDGE TINLEY: As the project architect, --
MR. LEWIS: I'm ready.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- speak to us.
MR. LEWIS: As you know, we received bids for this
project two weeks ago -- yes, two weeks ago at Commissioners
Court. And immediately after, the County Clerk made copies
of all those and then shared those with us. We had very good
interest; we received 13 bids. Had -- we had, as you know,
even greater interest, interest from as many as 20-some-odd
contractors, but 13 bids were received. What we did with
those copies of the bids was prepare a spreadsheet, which you
have in front of you. That's -- that spreadsheet has also
been shared with all of the 13 contractors that were on here.
Of these 13, three of them were nonresponsive on several
items, and so we didn't immediately discount those, but I
note that. One of them did not break out the bids and fill
out the bid form in its entirety, and one of them did not
attend the prebid conference, so those were the only
irregularities.
As you know, the bid was structured as a site
package which had three parts to it, and then a building and
a finish-out package, so there were 1A, B, C, 2 and 3. And
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that, as well as we had three alternates. One had to do with
paving, one had to do with floor finishes, and one had to do
with masonry. After much consideration -- at the bid
opening, Commissioners Court read the total bid package at
that time, and it appears that Kendnel Kasper Construction
was the low bidder, with a bid of 1,044,046 for all of the
items, lA, B, C, 2, and 3, exclusive of the alternates. We
had meetings -- and let me just say, the spread there, the
high bid for the total was a million, six, so there was a
pretty good spread there. And it really -- but it generally
, exceeded the County's expectations in terms of the numbers
being very favorable on the County's behalf.
We spent the next -- the better part of the last
two weeks visiting with the Judge and members of Road and
Bridge and county staff to talk about the County's ability
and interest in doing the items, the site piece of that,
Items 1A, B, and C, which included utilities, paving,
grading, and drainage, and came to the conclusion about the
middle of last week that the County would do those. So --
and we really basically took those off the table for the --
for the general contract, split the package into two general
contracts. The County will now act as general contractor for
all of the site work and work to cooperate -- collaborate
with the successful general contractor, the low bidder who
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overlap in terms of time and maybe some economies. So, at --
what that left was the -- if you look, there's a line item
about the middle of your spreadsheet, that total for bid
package 2 and 3 only, and there again, you will see that
Kendnel Kasper Construction is the apparent low bidder in
that category with a bid of 780,822. The next -- next higher
was in that line item was Merrell General at 824; it's about
a 5 percent spread.
And -- and so again had a discussion with county
staff and the Judge, and also spoke with Kendnel Kasper to
confirm that they were confident in these numbers. And so,
after some deliberation at the end of last week, it was our
recommendation to recommend the Court to select Kendnel
Kasper Construction as the general contractor. And after
some discussion with respect to the alternates, Alternate 1
was declined, the paving alternate. Alternate 2 was taken
for vinyl flooring in lieu of carpet where scheduled on the
drawings. And Alternate Number 3 was the addition of some
mason -- stonework around the base of the building and at the
entrance. And so at this time, it is my recommendation that
the Court, and for your consideration, to accept the low
bidder at $780,822, and begin negotiations to enter into a
contract for construction.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any questions from any member of the
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~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you're talking about
the -- I'm going to call it rock veneer --
' MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- on the building, are we
talking about, like, to the bottom of the windows?
MR. LEWIS: About that, on a couple sides, and then
we're actually -- the drawings indicated some to the
underside of the canopies at several of the entries. So,
it's not -- it's not for the entire face of the building.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But in your mind, you can
see it kind of matching up a little bit --
MR. LEWIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- with the older building
to the left?
MR. LEWIS: We would look at the stone, and -- and
there's some detail on that. It has a-- a top course on it
that's a cut stone. I don't know that we would necessarily
do that, but we can certainly match the profile of that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I remember when we --
when they built the jail, that particular stone has some red
sand in it, and when they first put it up, it was bleeding
out a little bit. And, oh my god, some of the community
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thought our building was falling down; there was lawsuits
~, flying all over the place because the rock was falling apart.
MR. LEWIS: We could do that again if you'd like.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. No. (Laughter.)
That's not in here, is it?
MR. LEWIS: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Anyway -- so, no. What
about -- so, are you talking about using the same rock?
MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Thank you, Peter.
MR. LEWIS: Or something close to it. You're
welcome, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you go over the -- in your
I Part 1, --
MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- exactly what A, B, and C--
break those parts out a little bit for me?
MR. LEWIS: A was site utilities. B--
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's getting -- as I
understand, that's getting the utilities --
MR. LEWIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- basic utilities to the site,
I but no --
MR. LEWIS: Not building utilities. Utilities to
the building. B was --
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JUDGE TINLEY: Water and wastewater only?
MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir, water and wastewater,
I electric with part of the tenant finish or the interior
finish. Two was paving, and 3 was grading and drainage.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there --
MR. LEWIS: And there's, you know, the construction
-- the pad compaction?
MR. LEWIS: The building pad will be the County's.
It falls under the County's contract.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there some clear, I guess,
line --
MR. LEWIS: Accountability?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- line between -- I want to
make sure that if there's a problem with the foundation, that
Mr. Kasper doesn't say it's the County's fault.
MR. LEWIS: We will -- we considered that question
and, you know, we considered while we were putting the bid
package together and as we assessed the bids, there will be a
' testing laboratory. That will be the testing laboratory
throughout the project, and so they will be passing muster on
all of the materials, compaction strengths, densities,
plasticity, all that kind of -- moisture content for base,
for sub-base, and any other testing we have, concrete
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testing. And so the single source for accountability, for
assuring that the materials in place are as spec, will be
that testing lab, and it doesn't matter who does the
construction. So, it -- you know, the framing carpenter
could do it, and if it tested out, it would be fine.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And the other part of
that, are we going to need any additional supervision
administration other than Mr. Odom on this work? Because --
and I bring that up because Mr. Odom's not an engineer.
MR. LEWIS: John Hewitt is responsible, whether
y'all are the contractor or whether Mr. Kasper's the
contractor, and will be looking -- both Peter Lewis,
architect, and my consultant, John Hewitt Civil Engineering,
one of those will be acting as your agent out there, and so
we will be the independent entity that will -- we don't
oversee the work, but we observe it and -- and observe it for
compliance with the drawings and the specs.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So, I mean, --
MR. LEWIS: So we will be that --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- there is a check?
MR. LEWIS: It is interesting, because we will have
the County as a client and the County as a contractor.
And -- but I think that we will be able to do all that very
well, and it'll -- you'll have a good product at the end.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But from a-- I just want to
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MR. LEWIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because since Mr. Odom is not
MR. LEWIS: Our engineer will be doing that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Peter, do I understand
correctly, there is -- the site work involves some relocation
of the detention pond currently there?
MR. LEWIS: Yes, sir, and enlargement, improvement
of it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. And that there will
be -- following up on Commissioner Letz' question, there will
be a significant amount of soil stabilization taking place
underneath the pad?
MR. LEWIS: There will be, yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. LEWIS: As per spec from Rock Engineering, who
is our geo-tech, and they will also be doing -- the
laboratory that did the predesign engineering and testing
will also be the laboratory that will be doing the
construction testing, which we think is good for continuity
and accountability. And I will add one more thing. We did
-- after we came for a preliminary decision with the Judge,
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made few phone calls and got a very good report card on
Kendnel Kasper for similar projects. One of them was --
actually, two of them were churches, and I do a lot of church
work, and if we can please a church, I think we can please
the county. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh.
PASTOR WILLIAMS: I know exactly what you're
JUDGE TINLEY: He's probably not going to jump into
MR. LEWIS: Well, he's -- I wanted him to weigh in
the on the hell freezing over there.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question really for Mr. Odom.
Len, how long do you anticipate -- well, let me rephrase.
, Not how long. How is this going to impact your other
responsibilities and work, taking this project on?
MR. ODOM: Well, you'l1 have two crews that will be
affected. That's Doug and Donny's crews. That's Donny's
area, so we're going to -- you know, the impact will be at
least 60 days. But tell me what the good Lord's going to do
with this weather, and --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Riqht.
MR. ODOM: I don't know. I look for February to be
a wet month. And it could go to April; this could be
Sheppard Rees' second, so who knows?
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sealcoat season starts, so we're really missing most of it.
MR. ODOM: We head into that, and yes, it will be
delayed a little bit with those two functions. However,
we're pretty well -- the only thing I need is --
Hasenwinkel's one, but we feel like this will break maybe
April, and then we're off and -- and can pick up. We may be
a little bit delayed on our program for those two, but it's
not -- we feel like we can still get it in.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Are there any other
projects that are going to be delayed as a result of this?
Or is this -- I mean, obviously, your people will be doing
something for this period, or those two crews will be, so
what's not going to get done?
MR. ODOM: As far as preventive maintenance?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or what's going to be pushed
off a little bit on your schedule?
MR. ODOM: Well, Donny's and Doug's are going to be
pushed off a little bit, and -- and then we'll have to pick
up from there. If we finish the others, I'm going to fold
the other crews back in there to either help here if we're
behind, or pick up in their areas and go forward. Sealcoat
will go forward. If anything, it would be the city, if I had
to do the city. They're the last on my list.
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and movement in that channel, in that detention pond as we
work it. But there is some material that has to be bought,
the geo-tech material for the foundation, and so there will
be some costs associated there. But the only equipment is
that right there. The rest of it's in-house.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. One more. Do you --
have you estimated the cost from your department?
MR. ODOM: Well, it depends. I can't remember
exactly what they told me and how much is on a roll, but that
geo, maybe $4,000 or $5,000 worth of pad material.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. ODOM: For the geo grid. And then it depends
on the material. We have that in place with what we're using
over there off Spur 100. I have to have that tested, but we
feel like that should pass Type C material. If that's the
case, that's a savings of $30,000, $40,000.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right.
MR. ODOM: So, it's there. It's just going to be
an in-house type deal. Our cost to the county is going to be
whether we pay them to do that or someone else.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: The impact just will be
MR. ODOM: All that preventive maintenance, but we
feel like there's enough time there. If we get through by
April, May, we'll go on. We should be through.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. ODOM: Yeah, we don't know what we're going to
hit out there. That's the question. What's off in that
detention pond?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mud. All right, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we accept the bid and
award the bid to Kendnel Kasper Construction Company in the
amount of $780,822 for Bid Packages 2 and 3, as submitted.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. Then I have one more
question.
JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second. Do
you wish to say anything in the motion about Alternatives 2
and 3, as recommended by the project architect?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, and include
Alternatives 2 and 3 as recommended, and authorize County
Judge to enter into a contract for the construction of this
building.
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that acceptable with your second?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's acceptable. I think,
also, maybe clarify that the County's doing the Bid Package
A, B, and C internally.
JUDGE TINLEY: 1A, B, C.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bid Package 1A, B, and C
are excluded from the bid, because the County is going to
~ perform that work.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Everybody clear on that?
Question or discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more question.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or maybe one more. The -- the
low bid of 780,000 is a really good bid from the County's
standpoint, and there's -- I know there's a bond requirement.
What's the bond? Is the bond -- how does the bond work? Say
there's a problem. Not that I think Mr. Kasper is going to
have a problem, but say -- you know, are we bonding that
amount? Or is it the building, or is it -- what is covered
by the bond?
MR. LEWIS: It covers the completion of your
building. And if -- if -- it won't be necessary, but --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MR. LEWIS: -- what would happen in that case is
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attempt to work through the issues with the owner. Failing
that, the bonding company would step in and take over the
job, and they might have the general contractor finish the
job. They might hire someone else to do it. It would be up
to them to do it. But it basically is insurance for you, the
owner.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the completion of the
I building, not the dollar amount of the bid?
MR. LEWIS: Yes, that's correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: As per the plans and specs. The
bonding company will be obligated to deliver that.
MR. LEWIS: If the economy changes and costs go up
or down, that -- that affects the completion, but it doesn't
affect your receipt of a finished building.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions, comments on the
motion? Al1 in favor of the motion, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Thank you,
Mr. Lewis. We appreciate the interest in the project by
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MR. LEWIS: All right, sir. I will -- Judge, I
will be in touch with you, and Mr. Kasper will as they
~ prepare the contract.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. LEWIS: Thank y'all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Item 2, consider, discuss, take
appropriate action on adopting fee schedule for protective
custody animals. Ms. Whitt has asked that this matter be
deferred and not considered at this time. In the event she
wants the Court to consider it, she'll bring it back. Let's
go to Item 4, a 9:15 item, which it is a little past that
time now. Presentation on the technology and methodology of
acoustic bathometry used in surveying freshwater lakes such
as Flat Rock Lake. Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge. We've
had a discussion about the bathometric acoustic technology to
use to be able to survey Flat Rock Lake and determine what
the profile is or identify the profile of the lake bottom, as
well as to get some feel for how much silt is in there. And
I-- as a result of our last meeting in which we discussed
this, I invited the good folks from the J3S Company in
Georgetown, Texas, who use this technology extensively for
doing this same type of work on other freshwater lakes, not
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the least of which are some of the L.C.R.A. lakes, to come
and tell us a little bit about it. So, it's my pleasure to
introduce to you this morning Mr. Tim Raymond, who's the
Chief Operating Officer for J3S Company -- Corporation, and
he's going to tell us everything we wanted to know, but were
afraid to ask, about acoustic bathometry.
MR. RAYMOND: Good morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir.
MR. RAYMOND: Good morning. I have some handouts
for the commission, if you'd circulate those. As
Mr. Williams was so kind, my name is Timothy Raymond. I'm
the Chief Operating Officer and Director of Engineering for
J3S Incorporated. What you'll see up here is Branch Water
Services' logo, and before we get too far, I want to identify
that as the "doing business as" of J3S Incorporated, so don't
be confused by that. We're all the same company. Branch
Water is a small woman-owned business. It was established in
2000, primarily working to serve the United States Navy on a
variety of contracts. Part of our work with the navy is
translated into a diversification into bathometric survey.
Basically, what we're doing here is taking sonar technologies
and applying them to image what's underneath the water in a
lake. We're going to talk a little bit about the
technologies. How -- what exactly is it that we're using?
How does this fit together? What kind of products would you
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that you might have for a lake survey.
This is a big picture kind of look at all the
possibilities here, but only the items in red are the ones
that we'll focus on today. So, we'll talk a little bit about
before and after volumetric surveys, which is the kind of
survey that is appropriate, I think, for Flat Rock. We'll
talk a little bit about the specific sonars, the site scan,
the multi-beam and sub-bottom sonar, and talk a little bit
about how all this comes about. What does the vehicle look
like? How's the planning done? What are the data products?
This is a picture from -- from Lake Worth in Fort Worth --
well, actually in Lake Worth, but I think of it as Fort
Worth. And what you see there is an area of about 30 or
40 acres of lake, and you're looking at the bottom of the
lake. The pink -- blue hump there is a hump of hard material
that's sticking up from the bottom of the lake.
Then you can see that there are two layers there,
and this is a little bit difficult to see, but there's a
translucent flat green layer, and then underneath that is
kind of a shadowy cratered green and yellow area. And what
you're seeing there is the apparent bottom of the lake. That
is the surface of the silt, and then the native bottom, which
is hardened material that's underlying the silt. This is a
product of two of the sonars, the multi-beam sonar and the
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case of -- in the case of Lake Worth, the desire there was to
dredge the lake to lower the lake level and improve its use
for recreation. So, there's a lot of interest in providing
the dredgers with an accurate look at where the silt lies,
what's underneath there, how much native or hard bottom
material and so on.
This is a picture from the side scan sonar in Lake
Marble Falls. As you may know, Marble Falls holds a boat
race, very high-speed boats. Occasionally there's problems
with those. And here you see an image that we picked up on
the bottom of Lake Marble Falls, which apparently is a boat
motor. And we didn't go after this. I'm not sure it's worth
anything, but it made an interesting target. And this is the
kind of thing that you can see with the side scan sonar.
Primarily, what we're using the side scan here is to look for
objects that are impediments to dredging. That is, if the
dredger comes along and he sucks up a boat motor or a dead
car or refrigerator, this causes a lot of irritation. And
they like to know where these objects are and what they are.
This is a picture close to the dam, close to
Starkey Dam at Lake Marble Falls. This is another good
illustration of what the multi-beam sonar can do. What
you're looking at here is, again, an area of about 30 or
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face kind of on the back edge there. The sonars don't image
those surfaces. In this -- in this case, we didn't take data
on the face of the dam, but it does image right up to the
bottom of the dam. You can see the cutout there, the lighter
blue area with the big yellow pocket there. That cutout is
left over from the construction of Starkey Dam, and if you
look at some of the historical graphs, you can see where a
road bed's been cut out to construct the dam.
Right up against the face of the dam, which is not
easy to see, there's several interesting structures there.
But one of the things that caught the attention of L.C.R.A.
is, in that yellow pocket, there appears to be a cave opening
' up, which could allow water to seep underneath the dam.
That's a very soft area. It's a deep pool; it's got a lot of
sediment in it, and it's something that they were very
interested in seeing. This is a picture of raw data from the
sub-bottom sonar. This is the sonar that gives us the
capability to look down underneath the sediment, or mud, and
see the native bottom. What you see here is the sub-bottom
tracking along the track of the sonar. So, the sub-bottom
you can think of as a pencil beam; people look can straight
down underneath the vehicle. As you drive along, it creates
a plot of what's directly underneath it. That is, it's
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~ looking down through the ground directly underneath it, down
through the water, hitting the ground, and then down
underneath the ground.
What the sub-bottom is looking for is big changes
in density, so if there's material that's more dense than
water, it picks up a boundary. If there's material that's
more dense than what it first encounters, it picks up another
boundary. So, as the density suddenly changes, increasing,
the sub-bottom is picking up boundary after boundary after
boundary. And you can see on the right there, there's a pool
of silt. You can see the top of the silt. You can see where
the native bottom is underneath. There's -- there's some
more features to this image that I'd be happy to discuss, but
in the interest of time, I'll kind of let it slide. But
there's a lot of things that the sub-bottom is showing you in
that image. This is a picture of the vehicle underway in
lake -- in Lake Worth. It's in a shallow area where there's
a large number of stumps. The vehicle's about 9 feet long;
it weighs about 600 pounds. It's autonomous; that is, it's
given a mission and it drives itself around. This provides
the capability to obtain automatically a very high-fidelity
survey. That is, we're using differential GPS. We're
precisely positioning the vehicle. And it offers a method to
safely and efficiently do a repeatable survey of the
underwater bathometry.
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All right. I want to talk a little bit more about
this platform, and I think I've probably said the words that
you see in red there already; that is, that it tracks a
track. It also offers you a way -- a means to do a survey
without holes or overlaps, so it's very efficient, and it --
it allows the capability to repeat. So, if you hired a
dredger and they came in and they removed a certain volume,
it would be very easy to repeat a survey and evaluate how the
bathometry had changed as a result of the dredging. One of
the things that I didn't mention here is that it's -- it's a
very stable platform. We're measuring not just the position,
but also the pitch, roll, and yaw of the vehicles, and we're
able to correct the pointing direction of the sonar, and so
we're able to register sonar data to a state plane grid
within a couple of inches, basically, because we're also
~ capturing that pitch and roll.
This is a picture from Lake Worth of a typical
survey mission. Each one of those stripes in colors is about
8 acres, and this mission is running 100 percent coverage of
the bottom. The water's fairly shallow, about 8 feet, so it
requires tracks that are fairly close together. And -- and
these missions are loaded into the vehicle. You tell the
vehicle go; it runs around the track and collects the data.
When you're done, you send it back home again. This is a
picture from the survey that you saw before in front of
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Starkey Dam, so this is a little bit different. It's 50 feet
deep, and you can see the tracks are widely separated. The
deeper the water, the fewer tracks that are required for a
100 percent survey. So, depending on the average depth of
the water, the survey time goes up or down, depending on how
-- what percentage of coverage is desired for the survey.
That's an important point to consider. In this survey, it
takes quite a lot of time to achieve 100 percent coverage,
because the water is about 8 feet deep. In this survey, it
takes a relatively small amount of time to achieve the same
amount of coverage.
I have a couple of movies here, just to give you an
idea of what it looks like. So, this is underway at Lake
, Worth early in the spring of last year, fairly heavy day.
But the vehicle's running at about -- I don't know, about 5
or 10 miles per hour or so, and -- and it does not have any
difficulty with this kind of thing. We do very well in all
kinds of weather, I think much to the disappointment of the
operators. They're forced to go out no matter what. This --
this one here is in front of Starkey Dam. And the video
quality here, I have to apologize, it's not the greatest, but
you can see the vehicle making -- if the camera stays fixed,
you can see the vehicle making a precise turn. So, if you go
back and look at that track, what you see in that -- in the
slide previous, that shows the widely-spaced track for
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Starkey Dam. You see a series of precise turns with sharp
corners. That's the actual track of the vehicle. It's
actually driving itself according to the mission plan around
those protrusions in the dam, so it goes around one of the
intakes, then it goes around the hydroelectric plant, and it
also goes around the small island of rocks that's sticking up
out of the lake.
All right. What do we do with the data? Well, you
saw the raw sub-bottom data, and you've seen the image there,
so -- so, primarily, when we're processing data, we're
combining the data sets to produce compatible information.
That is, we're looking to produce things that work well with
GIS products or other traditional survey methodologies. Many
of the surveys we've done match up with lidar data or other
data that provides a contiguous contour map from the
shoreline right down underneath the lake. There are a
variety of products, depending on what's appropriate for
the -- the survey, but primarily we've been doing grid fixed
data points, usually at about 2-foot spacing, and in state
plane survey. Some considerations. Now, there are a lot of
things here to look for. As I mentioned, sometimes the
dredgers are interested in what's underneath, what kind of
impediments might exist. But one of the things I think that
would be appropriate for Flat Rock is to consider what the
coverage might be. Is 100 percent coverage appropriate? Is
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This is a picture, again from Lake Worth, this time
down close to the dam, and I want to use this as an
illustration. Fairly big area. You see a white dot there,
kind of in -- in the right-hand side of the bounded region.
That white outline there is our drawing overlaid on top of
the map that shows the region survey. The white dot in there
is actually a water intake, a city water intake in the lake.
You can see the green stripe there on the right. This is the
multi-beam data that's showing the apparent bottom, so you
seek the intake channel leading up to the intake towers, and
you can also see the contours and the color associated with
the -- the depth of the apparent bottom. Now, if you look at
the silt, it looks very similar. In fact, if you flip back
and forth between those two, it's hard to tell the
difference. This is an actual mixture. This is the
difference that is there, is the silt depth.
So, taking the multi-beam that gives the apparent
surface, and the sub-bottom that gives the native bottom,
defining those two, now you have a plot of how thick the silt
is on the bottom. You can see that there are little pockets
there, here and there. There's a creek outlet actually in
the -- sort of in the center, left bottom part, where the --
it goes from green to blue to magenta. But one of the things
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of little contour lines. Those are 6- inch contours, and
there's lots of detail, but it's unlikely that a dredger
would find any of that interesting, in my opinion. The --
the detail there is -- is located and accurate enough. It
sort of would overwhelm whatever you would want to do in
terms of dredging, and there really isn't much silt there to
look at anyway. So, it's basically all native bottom. And a
lower resolution survey might have done just as well for this
-- for the case. This is a picture, I guess, of the -- the
area to be surveyed. So -- so there may be something --
there may be -- it may be worth considering or looking into
further. What would be appropriate for Flat Rock? Is there
someplace above the dam, or a distance above the dam that 100
percent would be effective? And then, from there on, perhaps
a lower density. That's all I've got for this morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: You had mentioned that -- that for
the purposes of a dredger, someone interested in silt
removal, that sometimes too much resolution -- 100 percent,
for example -- is not good for that purpose. Overkill, as it
I were.
MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: In terms of the -- the possible
objectives that we're trying to accomplish, which is silt
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degree of coverage would be appropriate in order to
accomplish that? I notice in some of your material, you
mention 15 percent.
MR. RAYMOND: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Which, of course, is a much lower
resolution. Would that be adequate, in your opinion, for
Flat Rock in order for an informed judgment to be made on
whether or not it's appropriate to go forward on silt
removal, either on the basis of an excavation or a dredging,
I either one?
MR. RAYMOND: Well, from a purely technical
perspective, the -- my experience has been that silt
typically pools in the deepest part of the -- the
containment. So, if -- if it's desired that silt be
identified and found, it's most likely to be found in the
area -- the deepest area immediately in front of the dam, and
I'd recommend that that area be given 100 percent.
Fifteen percent yields about the same data density, or about
the same accuracy data as you would get from a lidar survey,
so it's still very high-fidelity data. And so at some point
upstream of the dam, the -- I would recommend that the -- the
coverage be reduced, and that's where there's not likely to
be silt found, where you still need some decent fidelity and
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-- the greater the depth, the -- the fewer passes that you
have to make. I assume it's because of the sonar beam
expanding as it goes to greater depths?
MR. RAYMOND: That's exactly right. The multi-beam
sonar is -- is sort of like a fan beam or a broom sweep. The
deeper the water, the wider it gets as it goes down.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With respect to -- I noticed
in your material, there was mention made of -- of dealing
with geo -- bathometric survey, where the water depth is
greater than 3 feet, but provide estimates of the water depth
to the shoreline. My understanding of some of those depths
in areas adjacent to the shore is that some of them are
fairly shallow.
MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: You may have some contour
information to indicate preliminarily what that is; I don't
know. But will that give us adequate information in those
shallow areas of less than 3 feet?
MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir, it will. The -- the
vehicle is only designed really to survey to a certain depth.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. RAYMOND: Shallower than that, it -- it is not
effective to run the vehicle. And so, typically, what we've
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measurements, sometimes into 2 or 3 feet of water, making
specific measurement. It's been our experience that that's
more than adequate for characterizing the shallow area.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. When you're talking about
the -- the topographical contours in 1-foot increments, then
there's a notation, precision greater than or equal to
one-tenth of a foot accuracy, half a foot or better. Put
those two -- put those two measurements in perspective for
~ me, please.
MR. RAYMOND: The -- fundamentally, what we're
providing is grid data, and so the -- those grid data are
translated into contours. And, typically, a-- a grid
specification that we receive is something like we desire
grid data with accuracy sufficient for 6-inch contours or
1-foot contours. And so what you're seeing there is -- is
a-- perhaps an unfortunately complicated reply that
expresses the idea that the grid data is accurate enough for
1-foot contours; that is, that what we're proposing here is a
1-foot contour with sufficient accuracy.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay, I have a question.
MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: One of our -- one of the
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situation to where we have a person who draws water from the
lake, and they have a pipe going down for their intake. The
dam is plugged by an old butane tank. It's just a-- like a
ball in a hole.
', MR. RAYMOND: Right.
I
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Will this survey be able to
pinpoint the depth of that ball and the depth of that intake
for that water? So we know if the -- if the drain is higher
or lower than the intake for that water?
MR. RAYMOND: Well, I imagine -- I haven't imaged a
butane tank specifically, but I imagine --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's just a metal ball, is
all it is.
MR. RAYMOND: Then it should show up very well.
The density of inetal is very high. The sound speed changes
drastically. Typically, the sub-bottom is used for doing
things like imaging underwater pipes, or even buried pipes
underneath the lake bed. This is the kind of thing that
sonar is made to do, so I would expect that you would be able
to see that very clearly.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And the intake, I understand,
is a concrete, basically, shaft with an "L" on it to
basically let the water go into the pump, pull it out of the
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MR. RAYMOND: Yeah. I --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So that's -- that is
probably -- for my part of it, that's the most important
thing we need to know. Because if we do drain this lake to
clean it, we're going to have to make sure that there's still
flow over to that intake so that we don't interrupt their
I water.
MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir. I understand, yes. I
believe that will be -- we'd be successful.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There are more than one --
I one property owner that has diversion rights out of the river
I
' in the vicinity of Flat Rock Lake, and so we're cognizant of
that. We have to protect those rights. I have a question
that I think I probably know the answer, but I want to hear
it anyhow. As this -- as your technology surveys the bottom
and the silt density and et cetera, it appears to me that you
also identify stumps and fallen trees and so forth; is that
correct?
MR. RAYMOND: That's right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a goodly number of
those in Flat Rock Lake that need to be removed, as well as a
' huge pipe that's out there that everybody can see. So, that
is part of it, right? We'd also be able to identify
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reasonably well the locations of stumps and fallen trees, et
cetera, et cetera, et cetera?
MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir. Typically, what we've been
doing is planning an annotated map that identifies man-made
objects, as well as impediments to dredging.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Old cars and refrigerators
JUDGE TINLEY: Tires.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. Batteries, whatever.
Tim, I thank you for coming. Anybody --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes, just a question. I mean,
in your literature you sent, I think Flat Rock has 120 acres,
about. What percent of that does the proposal cover doing
the survey over?
MR. RAYMOND: Well, I think at this point, we're
proposing something like 80 percent. It's -- it's -- there
are still some issues to be resolved, but we believe at the
upper end of the lake is probably too shallow to really
support a survey, and so we need to do some more homework, I
think, on that issue. But at this point, we're sort of
looking at -- at coming south a little bit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MR. RAYMOND: Down the lake.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I know you mentioned that
there's one big island, several smaller islands. How do you
-- I mean, you're comfortable -- obviously, it wasn't very
shallow right there; it's above water level in places, but
that the survey will work properly with those real, real
MR. RAYMOND: Absolutely, yes, sir. We plan on --
on performing the shoreline survey first to characterize
where those shallow areas are, to delineate them clearly, and
then we'll fill in with the --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That shoreline survey will
include going out on the island?
MR. RAYMOND: Yes, that's right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would think Third Creek Dam
would be fairly adequate, as far as area that needs to be
checked, because that's the area that's going to have the
most silt in it, I believe.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or maybe from our boat ramp
at Flat Rock, maybe from that area.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, no further up than the
boat ramp. That's almost to the end.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right, exactly. Tim, thank
you very much for coming and making your presentation. The
Court will probably take up this topic at another meeting --
later meeting in February so we can figure out how to go
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JUDGE TINLEY: I've got one more matter I'd like to
interject, if you don't mind, Commissioner. You'd indicated
that you were going to do some more analysis of the area,
particularly on the upstream side of the lake, to try and
reach some conclusion of what's appropriate to include within
the survey. And then you've heard some comments here about
the need to know some things that are down close to the dam,
at the dam or near the dam, the -- the plug, the intake
pipes, and so forth. After you have had the opportunity to
study those things, and knowing what the interest of the
Court is on achieving, would it be possible for you to put
together a specific proposal as to -- as to that survey?
MR. RAYMOND: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. RAYMOND: That's our intent.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One other thought, and
hopefully for Commissioner Williams. I mean, it doesn't. make
sense -- I agree, there's no reason for us to really go much
past our boat ramp at Flat Rock, but if you go a little
further upstream, you are at the city's park, and they have a
lot of jumping, and they have -- they're doing lots of things
right there, a lot of people in that water. If the City
wanted to pay for that additional cost to get the survey done
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right in front of the park, that might be something
interesting. I mean, while you're here, it wouldn't cost --
if they're willing to pay for it, add that onto it so they
can get that data.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can certainly make them
aware.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ask the City if they're
interested at all in participating to find out what's in the
water right in front of the park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We can make them aware,
give them the opportunity if they want to participate.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Raymond, one reason I
would want your information would be to know, of course, how
much silt there is, and then translate that into, bottom
line, how much is it going to cost me to remove "X" amount of
silt out of the lake? And my question is, once we locate
this propane tank, or butane --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Butane.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- butane tank and remove
it, and all the water rushes out, how much -- normally, how
much does silt -- how much of that silt that you have
I identified goes out too?
MR. RAYMOND: Well, typically -- typically, silt is
-- the transportation of silt is actually something that
people spend their careers on, so I can't hope to give you
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And we pay people. We pay
people for that, don't we?
MR. RAYMOND: But it depends on what kind of
material it is. Is it muddy? Is it loose gravel? Is it
fine? Is it fine sand? And so on. Those are all questions
that you might could answer with a core sample pretty
quickly. Typically, higher silt sands, mud, those kind of
things don't move. They're churned up by surf at the
shoreline. They're transported in heavy rainstorms. They
don't move once they're deposited. You have to suck them
out.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My experience is the same.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's part of the problem.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's true. There will be a
little muddy water when it starts draining, but after that,
it will be clear.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Little turbulence there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just whatever's close by,
that's all that goes out.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything more?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you very much.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. We appreciate it.
MR. RAYMOND: Thank you. Appreciate the
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time. I will recess the Commissioners Court meeting, and I
will open a public hearing regarding the installation of 30
mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird Loop located in
(The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed
at 9:50 a.m., and a public hearing was held in open
court, as follows:)
P U B L I C H E A R I N G
JUDGE TINLEY: Is there any member of the public
that wishes to be heard with respect to the installation of
30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird Loop located in
Precinct 2? Seeing no one seeking to be heard with regard to
that issue, I will close the public hearing regarding the
, installation of 30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird
I Loop .
(The public hearing was concluded at 9:50 a.m.,
and the regular Commissioners Court meeting was
reopened.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I thought that would
be a hot topic, and I thought that that's what's filled this
courtroom up today.
I COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did too. I'm
I disappointed.
JUDGE TINLEY: I will reconvene the Commissioners
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Court meeting. Let's go back to Item 3, since we skipped
over that. Consider, discuss, and approve and/or
consolidating the polling locations for the Republican or
Democratic runoff election into four locations. Ms. Alford?
MS. ALFORD: Good morning. We will probably have
either Republican or Democrat runoff, and we want to
consolidate the polling places into four places. Precinct
101, 107, 109, 113, 118, and 119 to be at the River Hills
Mall; Precinct 202, 211, and 215 at the Union Church, and
303, 308, 312, 314, and 320 be in the Commissioners'
Courtroom here at the courthouse; and all of 4's -- 404, 405,
406, 410, 416, and 417 -- to be at the Ingram Presbyterian
Church in April.
JUDGE TINLEY: This is for the runoff only?
MS. ALFORD: Runoff only.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Alford?
MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You ran by those number
one's real fast. Is that all of them?
MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you want to consolidate
' the entire precinct into one at that time?
MS. ALFORD: Mm-hmm, at the River Hills Mall, yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is runoff only?
MS. ALFORD: Runoff only, April 13th.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And so for early voting,
let's make sure everybody understands, early voting is at the
MS. ALFORD: Ag Barn, yes. We've already -- we did
that back in December, for the runoff and the primary.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: General election is at the
regular polling place.
MS. ALFORD: Correct, on March the 2nd.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: March 2nd. The runoff
MS. ALFORD: Correct, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Ms. Alford, this is really a
picky point, a matter of feet, but my understanding is that
Precinct 3 is the annex and Precinct 1 is the courthouse.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say again?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The annex is Precinct 3 and
the -- we're sitting in Precinct 1 right now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course we are.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that --
MS. ALFORD: I was told that this -- this -- the
courtroom was in 3, but I could be mistaken.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why don't we ask the County
, Attorney to distinguish that for us?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just a point. I'd hate to have
an issue come up because we didn't do it inside the precinct
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boundary.
MS. BAILEY: I don't know the answer, but I will
find out the answer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The reason I say that is 'cause
I know the reason J.P. 1 is located here is because he's in
-- has to be in 1, and J.P. 3 is over there because it has to
be in 3.
MS. BAILEY: I know that the precinct line does run
through the courthouse. I'm just not exactly sure where in
the courthouse it runs.
JUDGE TINLEY: Does the County Surveyor know
exactly where that line is?
MR. VOELKEL: I do not know.
MS. BAILEY: He was going to be my go-to guy. I'll
get with you later, Lee.
i
MR. VOELKEL: Okay.
MS. BOLIN: According to what we've gotten for the
precinct location, this corner of the courthouse and front
part is in l; the rest of it's all in 3.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, that's fine.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So we're not sitting in 1.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're in 3 right now. I
like that. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: You are in unfriendly territory.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's okay.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Communistic plot.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have a motion witr
' respect to --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- Item 3?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of Agenda Item 3. Question or discussion on the
motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Al1 opposed, same sign.
~~I
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does pass.
MS. ALFORD: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. Let's move to Item 6;
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to approve
installing four 30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird
Loop. Mr. Odom?
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We have standing room only, I
think, on this item.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's a big one.
JUDGE TINLEY: He's like you, Commissioner. He
thought that's what the item of the day was.
MR. ODOM: Mr. Ryder on Red Bird Loop has requested
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a speed limit sign because of young people in certain az~eas
speeding out there. I think they line up their pickups and
see how fast they can run. There are no speed limit si~ns on
Red Bird Loop. So, we set out six traffic counters, three
days, to figure out what the 85 percentile was, and the --
the data that we presented to you shows that basically
30 miles an hour was a correct speed for the people that live
out there. It's very difficult for Rusty to be able to have
I a complaint, to go out there if there's not a speed limit.
So, at this time, we ask the Court for their approval of
installing four 30 mile-an-hour speed limit signs on Red Bird
I Lane .
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll move
to Item 7; consider, discuss, and take appropriate action to
approve private road name, Sheri Lane Northwest, located in
~I Precinct 4. Mr. Odom?
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. On February 28th of 2002, the
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name Sheri Lane was applied for in 911, and apparently they
did not pay for it to have it put up. Now the owners -- the
Sprays live at 112 Sheri Lane in Mountain Home, and they
would like to have that road sign put up on this privately
maintained road. So, at this time, we ask the Court for
their approval of the private road name of Sheri Lane
Northwest in Precinct 4.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the
motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Question.
(Commissioner	Letz left	the	courtroom.)
COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	You'	re going to install --
you're going to install the sign?
MR. ODOM: That's right, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what we're doing?
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you're going to install
it again when somebody steals it?
, MR. ODOM: Yes, sir, up to three times. And then
I we come back --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then what happens?
MR. ODOM: Then we come back -- well, what we'll do
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is have them pay for it again.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Thank you.
MR. ODOM: We pay for it this time. We'll install
it up to three times, when the kids decide they want to hang
I it on their wall, and after that, it's up to the private --
this is private property; they should pay for it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good, thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When the Sheriff goes and
~~i finds those signs in this kid's bedroom, you put them back up
I again for three more times, right?
MR. ODOM: And sometimes they do bring them to us,
and we do go back out there. Or save them, anyway.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: How many times has that
happened, Rusty?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We haven't had the theft of
signs, thank goodness -- knock on wood -- in quite a while,
but there was -- I remember several times when we've ended up
recovering over 100 at one time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One house.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: TexDOT -- yeah, one house. Or
ours -- you know, county's. But that has happened.
JUDGE TINLEY: Organized criminal activity.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, man, I'm telling you
what. Bet it's kids.
25 ~ JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions, comments on the
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motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your
right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries.
(Commissioner Letz returned to the courtroom.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Item 8, to consider, discuss, take
appropriate action to approve the final alternate plat for
Lot 1 and Lot 2 of Stevens Ranch located in Precinct 2.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Mr. Stevens owns 12.01 acres
on State Highway 173 right at -- essentially, right at the
county line going into Bandera, and would like to subdivide
his property into two parts. Lot 1 will be 7 acres, and
Lot 2 will be 5.01 acres. At this time, we ask the Court to
approve the final alternate plat for Lot 1 and Lot 2 of
Stevens Ranch, Precinct 2.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you see a problem,
I Jonathan?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval under the
alternate plat process.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion on the
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item -- on the motion? All in favor of the motion, sigr~ify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. We'll go to
Item 9, to, consider, discuss, take appropriate action to
approve final alternate plat for Lot 76 of Stone Leigh Ranch,
also located in Precinct 2.
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We had presented to the Court
I 5.01 acres and the other lot into 5.08 acres by conveying the
I
right-of-way easement instead of fee simple. Lot 76 of Stone
Leigh Ranch Subdivision is an unofficial subdivision; it was
never platted. The 10.9 acres is located at 515 Red Bird
Loop and is currently owned by the Hardins. At this time, we
ask the Court for their final approval of the alternate plat
of Lot 76 of Stone Leigh Ranch in Precinct 2.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? Is it possible we could
get corrections on the spelling of the roads up in the small
inset vicinity map?
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MR. ODOM: On the map?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, for the vicinity map in the
upper right-hand corner of the plat.
~ MR. ODOM: I doubt --
JUDGE TINLEY: Just to let you know I'm paying
I attention.
MR. ODOM: I will check that to see.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Picky, picky, picky. This
is government, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: This is going to be a matter of
public record. I would think that the engineer who did that
would want his work to demonstrate his professional ability.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whose name is on it? Tell
us out loud.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's look at the plat.
JUDGE TINLEY: Boerne? Red Bird?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I believe Mr. Charlie Digges,
or Mr. Digges' company.
MR. ODOM: Oh, I see, yes.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's misspelled? Oh, Boerne.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What does it say?
MR. ODOM: It was a typo.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two typos.
MR. ODOM: I'm lucky to see that. I have one
farsighted and one nearsighted, and it's hard to --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Can't make them focus?
MR. ODOM: It's changed. Doctor wanted to kncw
what I was eating, that they changed. So, I-- I'm sorry I
missed that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you suppose you could convince
the engineer to make those corrections?
MR. ODOM: I think so. And then we can submit
I that .
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That's --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: First take --
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's take a vote on it first. Al1
in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Thank you,
I Mr. Odom.
MR. ODOM: Thank you, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 10; acknowledge
receipt of quarterly investment report from Patterson and
Associates for the quarter ending December 31, 2009.
Ms. Williams?
MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're merely asking us to
acknowledge receipt of this and take no other action on it?
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MS. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. It's just like we dc
every quarter.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
MS. WILLIAMS: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to
acknowledge receipt of same. Question or discussion on the
motion? All in favor, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
', JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to
Item 11, report to Commissioners Court of the status of
investments made under Section 887(B) of the Probate Code.
Ms. Pieper?
MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, this is one of those things
that I just have to do once a year, just to let you know the
original investments, the interest paid, the balance to-date,
and the name of the depository on each of these accounts.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the action you desire the Court
I to take?
MS. PIEPER: There is no action. It's just -- I
have to report this to the Court.
JUDGE TINLEY: It'll be so noted. Thank you.
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action regarding emergency helicopter medical services
procedures involving AirLIFE, Air Evac, and Kerrville EMS.
Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, this was -- of course,
we have no authority in this area, but we had some problems
arise out in the community, and this is really an effort to
get both providers to tell us what they're doing and how they
intend to proceed working basically together, but being two
separate entities within Kerr County. People, in my area
especially, have mostly signed up with Air Evac, and thought
~ they were covered, and we didn't really find out about
anything until just recently, that this had happened, that
they had -- were not doing the reciprocal since October the
9th of 2009. And so I'd like for them to make a presentation
to us and tell us what their -- their plan is in the future
so that the public can be informed. That's all this really
is, is a public information item, so that people will have
the -- the knowledge to make a decision whether they want to
buy into both services or whether they don't, or explain how
it all works. I believe we have the EMS -- Kerrville EMS
medical person here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you suppose it would be
appropriate for Mr. Maloney, director of EMS, to tell us how
the procedure works for them to call for air assistance
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that would be a great
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Maloney, you're up.
MR. MALONEY: Good morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning, Eric.
MR. MALONEY: How are y'all this morning?
Commissioners, Judge, I guess a few things. We can talk a
little bit about how the process works in regards to
Kerrville EMS, and what our paramedics will do when they
arrive on scene. Basically, when dispatched to a call in the
county and/or in the city, if the patient information that
has come across is significant, maybe a motor vehicle crash,
maybe even from a heart attack or a stroke standpoint, the
paramedics will then put an air medical transport service on
standby. The standby position from there is not specifically
for Air Evac and not specifically for AirLIFE. We -- we look
to the closest available air medical transport. Now, we are
lucky enough here in Kerrville actually to have two in
Kerrville, based here. So, what we've done, and what we sat
down and discussed in the past in a meeting is that we would
put this on a rotation between them, try to keep -- Air Evac
would take the first one, and for them to transport a
patient. Then AirLIFE will back up for the second one, and
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Once the paramedics arrive on scene and they
determine the patient's condition, it still needs to be
transported to San Antonio, 'cause sometimes transport to San
Antonio is to a Level 1 trauma center, and then again,
sometimes it's maybe to a stroke center, or even for some
sort of a heart attack center, which would be Texsan. So, we
are sending patients. The determination is also made by the
paramedics as to what the abilities are at Peterson Regional.
So, although some of these patients are critical and do need
to be transported to San Antonio, there also is a group of
patients that Peterson Regional cannot handle, and therefore,
also need to be transported to San Antonio for care. Once
they are on scene, they will do their patient assessment. If
it is brought to their attention, or if it does come up that
they are an Air Evac member, per se, then -- and AirLIFE
happened to be on standby, then we will contact our dispatch
and see if, locally, Air Evac is available. If, locally,
they're available, we will switch services, and then we will
have -- Air Evac may make scene, or vice-versa, obviously, if
they're an AirLIFE member for that. But, first and foremost,
our paramedics out there on the field -- in the field, we
want to do what's right for the patient medically, not
financially. To make financial decisions on a patient's
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health -- on anyone's health is very difficult, and if anyone
were to say, "You're going to receive a$21,000 bill if
you're going to be transported to San Antonio, that is going
to be very difficult for anyone, and be very stressful.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's another heart
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. As -- as
with -- even with our own service. We do not stress with our
' paramedics to discuss financial or fee service with our
customers out there. In fact, I would venture to guess that
most of the paramedics in the field do not even really know
what we charge as an EMS, because making those decisions, we
always want to make the right decision medically for where
the patient needs to go, whether it be Peterson Regional or
San Antonio. If it's San Antonio, obviously, we have to use
one of the services from there, so we'll do the best we can
to kind of honor that in the county, or in the city, for that
matter. There are occasions, though, if somebody happened to
be an Air Evac member -- I keep using them. If they happened
to be an Air Evac member and they're not available loca~ly,
their next available is out of Hondo, so -- next closest air
medical transport. But AirLIFE is closer; they're available
in town locally, and ready to launch.
Delaying a patient's care -- obviously, if we need
to transport a patient to San Antonio for definitive care,
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Dr. Nail, does not want us to wait at LZ for another 20, 25
minutes when we can transport with AirLIFE here. But we are
very lucky, and I think that's one of the things I do want to
make sure we all know. We are very, very fortunate to have
', two air medical services in a town of 25,000 and a county of
50,000. This is -- we are one of probably very few, and I
don't know if I could name another one without getting into
big cities that actually has this ability and has this
service available.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Maloney, let me give you a
for-instance. Suppose -- suppose your EMS people make a
scene, and they are -- they are told by either the patient or
patient's family that's on scene that if air transport is
necessary, this -- this particular patient or family
subscribes to one service or the other, even if the next up
on rotation is, say, the other service. If that -- if the
subscribed service is, in fact, available on basically the
same time frame, is it -- is it the policy of your folks to
honor that -- honor that request or -- or that information
, that you receive?
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. If there is no time delay
with bringing Air Evac or AirLIFE, whichever one they happen
to be a member for, we will meet that request if at all
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possible for that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Of course, sometimes you -- yo~
I don't get the benefit of that information, because the
' patient's unconscious, there's no one else around.
MR. MALONEY: Correct. Yes, sir.
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- which indicate membership. Would
that cause your people -- say if it was out of an automobile
accident or other situation where there was a vehicle
involved which obviously belonged to the patient or the
patient's family, that you would respond accordingly?
MR. MALONEY: Not necessarily.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. MALONEY: We do not search for membership
programs to find out if a patient is on one versus the other
one, whose vehicle they're in for the sticker. The stickers
are great, but once again, we really need to be notified by
the customer that you are a member of one program versus the
other. Now, we'l1 do the best we can to advise. Most of the
time, if it's a medical transport from the scene, the family
member may be there and say, you know, "I'm an AirLIFE
member," that, therefore, you know, when we transport, we
will do everything we can to meet that request. But we never
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medically to delay anything, patient care-wise, 'cause I
really want them to concentrate on the medical aspect, not
the financial. And we can all work with the financial
afterwards, which is a part of our responsibility to do both.
There are also occasions -- and one, for instance, sometimes
on large motor vehicle crashes, we bring in both -- both air
medical services. And that has happened recently, and over
the numerous years that I have been here. So, we will do
everything we can, if someone mentions that they are a
member, but at that point we are transporting patients to
definitive care in San Antonio, and once again, we have to do
what's best for every patient medically, first and foremost.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Great. I think that's a good
background. And I'm not -- my next question really is, what
do they charge? What's their deal? And you don't know that.
MR. MALONEY: No, sir, you would be better served
' to ask them.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Mr. Maloney.
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: I note two of your bosses, I guess
we could call them, for lack of a better term, are there.
Chief Ojeda and Assistant Chief Mark Beavers are with us.
Welcome. Glad to have you here.
MR. OJEDA: Good to be here, sir.
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JUDGE TINLEY: We have representatives from -- from
MR. HILLIARD: Yes, AirLIFE here, and I see the Air
JUDGE TINLEY: Does someone want to come forward
and tell us about your particular program? And I think of
particular interest would be --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: This is Air Evac.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- what efforts are being made to do
some sort of a reciprocation arrangement.
MR. CLARK: Morning. My name's Nick Clark. I'm
the program director at the Kerrville base for Air Evac
Lifeteam. We've been here as Air Evac since May of '05. The
Air Evac was founded in '85 in Missouri. And one of the ways
that they've found -- or one of the programs that they sort
of followed was a program that offered a membership.
Basically, they've taken in this membership program, and
throughout our company, have over 800,000 members.
Basically, what it is, is if you are a member of our program
and you are flown by us, you will not receive a bill. For, I
guess, four and a half years, or four years now, that's not
really been a big issue, because we were the only provider in
Kerrville. Now, still, it could have come up, and even at
that, with AirLIFE being out of San Antonio, if we were out
of service -- out of service or out of the area, they still
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was, honestly.
I know recently there's been two different -- two
separate occasions when this has happened. Both of them --
in both cases, the member was a member prior to AirLIFE
either being here, or before they had their membership
program, so I don't know exactly the route that these people
got their membership, if they talked to one of our membership
people, if they called the office in Missouri. But either
way, there was no -- there was no other membership program in
this area for us to speak of. So -- so, it's an unfortunate
circumstance, and -- but there is potential for that to
happen. On the one case, we were out of the county, in
another county on another flight, and that's why they got the
call, because AirLIFE was here in town locally. And, as Eric
said -- and my history, I'm a registered nurse. You know,
patient care comes first. That is the priority. It's lovely
to think of everybody's finances. I mean, we all do; we
think of our own. But when you're truly talking if they need
us to fly that person, that person is in bad enough condition
that -- you know, the financial part of it can be addressed
to an extent, but when it really comes right down to it, the
patient care is the issue at hand.
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So, as far as any type of reciprocation,
unfortunately, by law, we are not able to do that. What --
basically, what you're paying for with our membership program
is you're paying a co-pay or a deductible as far as for
insurance, Medicare, Medicaid. Basically, that's -- we're in
compliance with the office of the -- oh, I'm trying to think
who we're in compliance with. But we're in compliance with
the office of the -- the Inspector General, as far as that
goes. But, basically, what you're paying for is, you're
paying for our service. You're paying a deductible for our
service. Same thing, I would assume, with theirs. When
you're paying their membership program fee, you're paying for
their service, so you can't -- you can't pay for ours and use
theirs, and vice-versa. So, it's -- you know, it would sort
of be liking going to Chili's to eat and then paying
Fuddruckers, you know.
So -- and on the -- the -- what are we going to do
about it? You know, basically, what I've tried to do with my
crews, and what I'm trying to do myself, is we do a lot of
public relations stuff. We're out in the community. We do
landing zone classes with volunteer fire departments. We do
things like that. Now, what we do when we go to these places
is we tell these people -- you know, we tell people there are
two aircraft in town. There are two membership programs.
Now, I can't put that in an advertisement anywhere or
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anything like that, but I do tell it word of mouth, because I
know it's not well-known. You can put it in the newspaper.
order to get the word out to everyone, it's a pretty
difficult thing. It's a pretty daunting task to try and do
that. So, you know, we're doing it one person or one group
at a time. But in order to -- I don't have a great solution
in order to get it out to everyone in Kerr County. And
Gillespie County and Mason County and Bandera County. I
mean, that's the other thing, is it's quite a large service
area that both companies are dealing with.
JUDGE TINLEY: Apparently there was a reciprocal
agreement up until October of last year?
MR. CLARK: Yes, sir, there was.
JUDGE TINLEY: Was that an unlawful agreement, if
you couldn't lawfully enter into an agreement with --
MR. CLARK: The gentleman from AirLIFE can probably
' talk with you more about that one. I don't know exactly how
that worked, but they did honor ours for one year, and that's
what they said when they moved their base into town. And
then on October 9th, that was -- they opened their
membership -- August? Of last year.
MR. HILLIARD: Yes.
MR. CLARK: Yes? Correct? And so that's when they
established their membership program. And that was what they
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JUDGE TINLEY: But your position is that your
service is unable legally to enter into a reciprocal
agreement with the other provider?
MR. CLARK: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. CLARK: And there's a lot of different reasons
probably also for that. I don't know. By no means am I a
lawyer, but -- or know all the laws pertaining exactly to
this, but it's two very separate companies run very separate
ways. You know, we're a private company, for profit.
They're a not-for-profit agency. So, you know, there's a lot
of different -- differences there. So --
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for this
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I've got a comment.
And maybe -- you know, I'm going to make my comment about all
this, that I'm unhappy about it, and I am really unhappy
about it. And maybe you can respond right now, or you can
take a deep breath and take a shower and all that and come
back later.
MR. CLARK: Do I need a shower? Wait a minute.
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of that was -- was said to us. We go to the -- we go tc the
trouble and go out and ask all of our employees --
MS. LAVENDER: Wrong. Wrong company.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wrong company? I'm sorry.
MR. CLARK: I'm saying hold on.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He doesn't have to take a
shower now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're Air Evac?
MR. CLARK: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I apologize to you.
Will you accept my apology?
MR. CLARK: Yes, sir, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't wait till the next
ones get up here.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think that's a clear signal.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all come on up.
AUDIENCE: Duck.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for this
~ gentleman?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir.
MR. CLARK: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have one question.
MR. CLARK: Yes, sir?
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did we offer to our employees?
MS. HYDE: We offered AirLIFE at $10 annually.
One-time fee of $10.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: AirLIFE, okay. That's the
i other company.
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have a significant
number of our employees who signed up for that. The question
to you, then, is do you also offer a program similar to what
AirLIFE did for Kerr County's employees? That's the micro
part. The macro part is the county-wide --
MR. CLARK: Yes, sir. Basically, what we offer, as
far as getting down to a$10 membership, we would have a
membership program that would cover all the employees while
they're at work. Now --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: While they're at work?
MR. CLARK: While they're at work.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I'm at home sleeping and
have a heart attack, I'm -- it's not covered?
MR. CLARK: Correct, for $10. The best we can
do --
MR. BOLLIER: Crawl to the office.
MR. CLARK: I have to refer to my gentleman back
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MR. EULER: Nick, I can address a little bit of
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let's have a little bit
MR. EULER: The fees aren't just set -- the
membership costs aren't just set arbitrarily, just -- there's
reasons for all of it. If you look into the -- the Medicare
laws, there has to be a deductible for even service provided,
for medical service provided for a Medicare patient. Air
Evac looks at it as well. We're going to make sure that
everybody that we sell a membership to, whether it be through
a group, through an individual, however, is going to make
sure that that membership amount covers that Medicare co-pay
as dictated by federal law.
JUDGE TINLEY: Before we go further, why don't we
get your name on the record. You're from Air Evac?
MR. EULER: Yes, sir. I'm Kenneth Euler. I'm a
representative with Air Evac.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, thank you, sir. Continue.
I'm sorry to interrupt.
MR. EULER: That's okay. So, the Air Evac
standpoint is that we're -- the membership price, the
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cheapest price we're going to go, the lowest price we're
going to go is going to be that that satisfies a Medicare
patient. Private insurance, that type of stuff, have
different amount of co-pays, but we're most concerned with
the Medicare co-pay. Now, the way AirLIFE does it -- comes
up with their calculations is a whole different animal. I'm
not familiar with that. I don't know anything about that.
But when we talk about covering employees for $10 a-- groups
for $10 a person, the reason why we can do that is because
people that work for the county, people that work for school
districts, that type of stuff, and while they're on the job,
they're employed; they're not Medicare recipients most of the
time. So, that -- that's how that program -- that is how our
company have used the program.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're not a Medicare
recipient unless you're 65 years old.
MR. EULER: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I suggest to you that the
large segment of our employee group is not in that category.
MR. EULER: I understand that, but --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So where does that leave
us?
MR. EULER: Well, the standpoint from Air Evac is
that they are not -- it's just a company policy that they're
not going to offer memberships below the amount of Medicare's
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members. If they're doing any school functions, at $4 -- the
children are $4 a member, and then the adults or the
teachers/employees are $10 a member. If they're doing
anything on school property, any type of school function, the
children and the teachers/employees are considered full Air
Evac members. Now, when they go home, that is not the case.
They are not Air Evac members unless they decide to upgrade
their personal membership plan, and which they'll get a$10
~ discount on the rate of inembership.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, to make certain I
understand this correctly, as an employee of Kerr County, as
long as I'm in this courthouse or on county business -- on
'~ county business?
MR. EULER: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. I'm covered if
something happens to me. Correct or incorrect?
MR. EULER: Yes, sir, that is correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good. When I get in my car
and go home, take off my county hat, and something happens to
me en route or at home, I am not covered?
MR. EULER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Correct or incorrect?
MR. EULER: That is correct, unless --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My wife is not covered.
Correct or incorrect?
MR. EULER: That is correct. Your wife is not
I covered.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see.
MR. EULER: A full household membership like what
those brochures --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me?
MR. EULER: Like the brochures that we passed out
to you gentlemen, that would enable you to be a member all
the time, 24/7, as long as you're in our coverage area, which
is 15 states.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, to satisfy the problem
we have before us right now, which is maybe you are, maybe
you aren't covered, then whether you are an employee of Kerr
County or whether you are a resident of Kerr County, or
surrounding hill country counties, your best option to make
certain that you are 100 percent covered 24 hours a day,
seven days a week, during 365 days a year, is to have both of
them.
MR. EULER: That's my contention, and I have both.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A family membership?
MR. EULER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: There was mention -- I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay.
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MR. EULER: I mean, I'm not going to -- you know,
obviously, these two companies are big companies; very, you
know, well-off, and one company's not going to mandate us out
in the field to market for another company, and vice-versa.
But common sense --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I understand.
MR. EULER: I agree with you. That's why I'm a
member of both.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand that.
JUDGE TINLEY: There was some mention made
initially about a group rate, if there were 100 or more
employees signed up through Kerr County, for an entire
family, 365, 24/7, would be a 45 annual rate?
MR. EULER: The actual number is 150 or more
I employees.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. EULER: Yeah, we have price breaks at 50
employees and at 150.
JUDGE TINLEY: So, what is it at 150? $45?
MR. EULER: $45 across the board.
JUDGE TINLEY: Entire family?
MR. EULER: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: 24/7?
MR. EULER: 27/7, anywhere in our coverage area.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay.
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If it's below 150?
MS. HYDE: If it's below 150?
MR. CLARK: We're on the same -- we're from the
MR. CLARK: Yes, sir.
MR. EULER: We have a question over here about 150.
If you're above 50, but below 150, then it's a$10 rate
decrease, respectively, for a one-, two-, or three-member
household.
MS. HYDE: So -- I'm sorry, you said a decrease, so
that means $35 if you only have 50 people?
MR. EULER: Well, it's 45 across the board for more
than 150. From 100 to 150 -- our rate structure is 60, 55
and 50. If you have a one-person household, it's $50.
Just -- that's not discounted. If you have a two-person
household, it's 55. If you have a three-person household,
it's 60. Or more -- three or more in the household is $60.
We take $10 off those amounts respectively if you have a
group of 50 or more. Did I get that clear as mud?
JUDGE TINLEY: So, 50 or more, it's -- it's $50 for
the entire family, three or more.
MR. EULER: 45 and 40.
JUDGE TINLEY: Forty-five for two-member, and 40
for a single individual. But at 150, the whole family, three
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MR. EULER: That's correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Well, that -- but, of course,
then the general public out here on a-- not a group rate, so
to speak, is the general rate schedule that you've got
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. EULER: Just so y'all know, that a lot of the
volunteer firefighters' organizations are members as a group,
and we're working with different banking institutions. We
offer employee benefits to not just governmental agencies,
but any -- you can have five employees that want to --
JUDGE TINLEY: Any major employer?
MR. EULER: Yeah, benefit employee packages. So, a
lot more of the community also receives discounted rates due
to those type of -- of marketing plans also.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for these
gentlemen? Yes, ma'am, you had a question?
MS. McCORD: Yes, sir. I'd like to know, how many
members do you have in the hill country area?
MR. CLARK: Very good question. And I,
unfortunately, didn't bring that with me. I can give you
sort of a round number. I believe there's about 2,500 in
Kerr -- in Kerrville. I believe there's about 3,000 in Kerr
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there's right around 1,000, I believe. So -- give or take.
And then there's a few, Rocksprings and areas like that.
MS. McCORD: The reason I asked that is because I'm
an Air Evac member, and have been, and I believe
I've contributed a lot to getting other members for the
service as well. I'm Heidi McCord, thank you. And it would
seem that -- you mentioned you're having trouble getting word
out to other members that there was an AirLIFE service, which
I was not aware of until just recently, and it would seem
that Air Evac would want to send a letter of communication to
its members saying we have another service provider in your
area. We want to make you aware of that so that in the event
that you are airlifted, you need to really make sure that you
' request Air Evac, or realize that someone else is providing
service, and you might want to look into membership with them
as well. And I hope to address these gentlemen here in a few
minutes about my particular situation. And just realize that
for $200 to $300 in postage, that a lot of this could have
been avoided, and in informing the public a little bit better
than hearsay and talking with people one by one.
MR. CLARK: Correct. And -- and you're absolutely
correct. Unfortunately, Missouri's 800 miles away, and they
don't know the exact issues with each and every base as far
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MS. McCORD: That's not Missouri's job; that's your
MR. CLARK: But it's also their job, as new --
having a new aircraft in this area, and there were press
releases in the newspaper when they arrived. Now --
MS. McCORD: Yeah. I can get a bill when my
membership is due, but I can't get something notifying me
that there's something else going on in the community.
MR. EULER: I agree with exactly what you're
saying. The problem -- the problem with letting everybody
know is that it's such a dynamic -- we have brochure racks in
all -- a lot of the stores, banks and stuff, and we -- we
here locally can't keep track of everybody that's signing up.
We -- we were dependent on the press releases to get the word
out, and through word of mouth and through our presentations,
making sure we're educating people on that issue. If -- and
some have fallen through the cracks. We understand that.
It's been a concern of ours. We've talked about that, and we
keep just trying to eat the elephant one bite at a time.
That's our side of that. Anything else, gentlemen?
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for this
gentleman? Okay. Are you ready for the barbecue,
Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. HILLIARD: Well, certainly, I think that I am
the turkey that's going to be roasted. But I would like to
address it in a very positive manner, because one is, the
intent has been to benefit the community as a good neighbor.
i
And if you go back, basically, two years ago -- if you go
back originally, AirLIFE is owned by the Baptist Health
System and University Health System in San Antonio. The
I university has a trauma mission to cover Service Area P, and
Service Area P covers 22 counties, Kerr being one of those.
One of their requirements is to provide rapid air transport
for trauma back to the University Health System. With that,
Baptist AirLIFE actually started and served Kerr County and
the other counties from '91 to '95, before any other provider
was here. Critical Air came in. We still serviced it as a
good neighbor. Two years ago, we signed a preferred provider
agreement with the hospital, and when we came in at that
time, we made -- announcements went out, folks, in light that
several citizens had bought Air Evac, we would honor that.
Because we can't do a reciprocal agreement because of law.
We're not-for-profit; they're for-profit. There are some
constraints there in terms -- now, I have reciprocal
agreements which are lawful, but they're with
not-for-profits; CareFlite in Dallas, HALO-Flight in Corpus
Christi. Which, if you're in those areas, you would be
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covered by AirLIFE.
something we would offer, and it is for 24-hour coverage.
It's for the entire family. And, as a matter of fact, our
I membership of $49 covers the entire family, everybody at that
' residence. So, I believe when you went and med-evac'd, I
honored several flights from August -- excuse me, October the
lst through September -- August 1st, '08, through
September 30th, '09. Those flights flew. I did not bill
those patients any of the delta. With that, certainly, I
went out and I have been marketing to each of the county
governments. Some ot the county governments have taken
these; others have opted not to.
But, certainly, if you look at it -- and what
Mr. Clark said, they cannot respect -- or have a reciprocal
agreement with a not-for-profit. They're a for-profit, so
from that perspective, that is a correct statement. And,
certainly, if you look at it and you look at AirLIFE as a
I~ part of your community, good neighbor, it started two --
I
il excuse me, 1991. As a matter of fact, I created AirLIFE
I~, January 1st, 1991. I have flown over 200 patients before
there was another air provider in the county. The hospital
went with, at that time, Critical Air. It wasn't Air Evac.
And we -- I certainly was a good neighbor, because we would
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I~, fly specialty flights when they had neonates and peds that
require additional crew members, 'cause we have a larger
aircraft, and with stuff that would accommodate those type
, membership, certainly, we -- that's who they should fly with.
Occasionally, under the circumstances, if you look at a wreck
out there, and nobody's talking, and you're making a decision
on life or death, you've got to make a call. They make a
call. Certainly, I would -- it would be unfortunate for any
of those that got caught in that circumstance. Certainly, I
have been marketing. I have done mail-outs; I have an
online, and certainly I will continue to market through LZ
courses and others, recognizing that there is competition in
the area. And, certainly, AirLIFE is here. We're proud to
be in Kerrville. And, as Eric said, two services are here.
But it's unfortunate that it seems to be that there's --
someone was misled, 'cause, certainly, I am -- want to talk
with Buster over here -- Commissioner, whatever that concern
may be. 'Cause, certainly, from our position, it was one of
integrity.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Were you the gentleman that
made the presentation on behalf of your company?
MR. HILLIARD: No, I was not, unfortunately.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just -- it just seems to me
that when -- when he was in this room, he -- in his
presentation, that he would let us know that there may be a
hiccup in this system. But he didn't. I mean, we felt like
', that -- that you -- your company, if we signed on with them,
that your company were going to come and pick us up when we
I
~I needed it and go; there wasn't anything else about another
I~ company. If another company picked us up, then we were going
I
j to be charged full price. Not -- and to my memory, nothing
like that was ever presented. And so we get down the -- we
kick the ball down the road, we're fixing to sign up, and all
of a sudden Commissioner Oehler -- some friends of his go
through this. And, to me, that's just -- I mean, I'm not
going to say that your company came in and lied to us, but --
or even the word "mislead." I won't even -- I'm going to be
nice to you, because you weren't here. But it's -- my trust
-- my -- this is just me talking here; I'm not talking --
speaking for these guys.
MR. HILLIARD: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My trust in your company has
really dropped because of this.
MR. HILLIARD: Well --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, now we're either -- our
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-- our 300 employees are asked now to join two companies, or
go back to square one and do without it altogether. And it's
just -- I'm disappointed in that. I'm really disappointed in
MR. HILLIARD: I'm disappointed in it too, because
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't you fix it?
MR. HILLIARD: Well --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go back to the Judge's
question. Judge, would you ask him your question about the
legality? I'm really curious about that.
JUDGE TINLEY: In his initial remarks, I understood
him to say that it wasn't lawful for him to enter into a
for-profit operation, inasmuch as he's nonprofit. But my
question to the Air Evac provider was, then, during this
reciprocity time that went on for about a year, we had an
illegal agreement. Is that essentially correct?
MR. HILLIARD: No. I-- I honored theirs, but it
was not a reciprocal agreement. I signed no agreements. I
just said in good faith, to cover those who had membership,
Judge, that we would not bill for that difference, and that
we insured that the Medicare/Medicaid requirement was met.
And, certainly, in light of that, going back -- and as you --
and, certainly, I will let Air Evac speak for themselves,
because their policies and procedures are very clear. But
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they flown one of our patients, they would not have been
' covered, period. Now, certainly, in terms of communications,
I apologize for any communications that was not there.
I think one of the things is, it has really not
been -- maybe the reason it was not mentioned that there was
another, because until this actually -- I was unaware until
very recently, getting a call, that there was an issue of any
type. Certainly, though, I'm probably as concerned as you
are. I'm probably a little bit more concerned. And,
' certainly, I will stand on AirLIFE's reputation for a good
community partner, and for 19 years of service. And,
certainly, for that I don't make an apology. But, certainly,
I do apologize if one of my employees has not communicated
accurately enough, and essentially to create. But I believe
this was dynamics that would have occurred somewhere along
the way, not due to Air Evac or AirLIFE, but in terms of that
coverage. The coverage was offered to you as a group,
certainly that option. If you don't -- if you feel you do
not want to enter into that, that would be a vote right here,
certainly. Your power and your authority to do that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think part of the problem
was -- goes back to what we believed to be a reciprocal
agreement in place. Perhaps -- perhaps that was represented
to us that there was such an agreement in place, and
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saying to us today is that there wasn't a formal reciprocal
agreement in place. There was just your willingness to
extend your services for a short period of time, or --
MR. HILLIARD: For one year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One year.
MR. HILLIARD: And, as a matter of fact, Air Evac
had -- had the hospital preferred provider agreement. When
the hospital signed their preferred provider agreement with
AirLIFE, there was members who had taken membership with Air
Evac. And we published in the paper, I spoke at the
Optimists Club, everybody in town here, folks, we will honor
one year, that membership. And that started October the 1st
and went through September '08 -- through September 30th.
Now, folks, for a business, that's stepping out there and
taking a lot of financial risk. Took it. There was a number
of people we flew and that we paid for. Never a question.
Honorable action. And I'm concerned, because I've been --
it's not really said, but pretty close, not quite kosher.
And I take great exception to that comment. Great exception,
'cause if you look at the actions, as my daddy used to say,
actions speak louder than words. Did I honor my word for one
year? Did I cover those costs for one year? Was I up front?
Yes, I was. AirLIFE was. University Health System was. The
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Baptist Health System was. And i feel very strongly about
the integrity of work and of operation.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you didn't receive any
payment for that one-year reciprocal agreement?
MR. HILLIARD: No. There was no --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: From anybody that you call --
MR. EULER: No.
MR. HILLIARD: There was no reciprocal agreement.
There was no contract signed.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, you got no compensation
for any flight you did during that time?
MR. HILLIARD: If they were Air Evac --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Air Evac members.
MR. HILLIARD: Air Evac made no payments to me
whatsoever. We never billed them. Is that correct? Never
billed them.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's paid for by the patient,
~ not by --
MR. HILLIARD: Well, if the insurance didn't pay
it, no. It came -- we wrote it off.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay.
MR. HILLIARD: It came out of my operation budget.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think the real problem
here, from what I figured -- you know, I've been at this
thing since the beginning when the problem came up. You
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know, evidently, you haven't done a real good job of
marketing in this -- in Kerr County, so that people would
know that there was another service that they probably should
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And that's the part that gets
me with all the people that I talk to. I live out west.
Most everybody out there has membership with Air Evac. They
had no idea there was a membership available by AirLIFE until
this came up.
MR. HILLIARD: An excellent point, because when
AirLIFE started, AirLIFE's membership, we started it October
this year. Okay. When we came, we were in discussions with
Lincoln National, but the national insurance company -- we
I had the great recession, everybody backed off the risk. And
we had promised we would have something in place, so the
partners, University Health System and Baptist, we created
the Guardian Angel program, and we initiated that October of
this year. When we initiated, we started to market. We've
been marketing probably 120 days. Certainly, if we -- with
that, could we not always be as clear? Certainly, I can tell
you one thing. My guidance is -- and often I do the
speaking, so if somebody makes a mistake, it would be me, but
Steve could possibly be -- is to insure that here's a
product. We believe it is a superior product. It covers
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good neighbor.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I --
MR. HILLIARD: Yes?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. I want to go back to
something -- going back to something that Eric Maloney said
and that you've said. And I don't know all the hospitals and
who-all's really with who in San Antonio, but Eric made a
statement, if it's a heart problem, it goes to Texsan. And
I'm hearing you say that you all work for Baptist and
University. Is -- who makes the call as to what hospital?
MR. HILLIARD: All right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean --
MR. HILLIARD: It will vary. And, as a matter of
fact, AirLIFE flies into all the hospitals in San Antonio.
If there is a preference -- if the patient is able to give a
preference, or his family, that's the hospital it goes to.
That simple. And I think -- Eric, is that not the policy?
MR. MALONEY: Yes, sir. With the Kerrville Fire
Department, we do not choose destinations in San Antonio,
because we are not actually the transport agency, so that
would be with AirLIFE. Shawn Salter, the clinical
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operations, and also Air Evac, they make the decision.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: When I said Texsan, that was
just an example; I just pulled it out --
MR. MALONEY: Texsan, any of those hospitals, he
could probably answer.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's suppose there's -- there's not
a-- the patient's unable to voice a preference, a family
member is not -- not present to do so, or doesn't -- doesn't
voice a preference. What -- to what facility is the patient
transported?
MR. MALONEY: If they do not voice anything, well,
then that would be a determination by their crew here.
MR. SALTER: Gentlemen, my name is Shawn Salter; I
I am the assistant program director and chief flight nurse for
San Antonio AirLIFE. So, patients have first preference as
to a facility. If a patient says that they want to go to
Hospital X, we will -- if we the medical crew believe that
that Facility X could meet the medical needs of that patient,
we would happily deliver them there. A good example would be
picking up a patient who has an obstetrical emergency, and
the patient desires to go to the Nix. The Nix is a very
comprehensive facility, but it doesn't offer emergency
obstetrical services. We would consult with that person and
let them know that there are other facilities of their
choice. We -- they have the entire list. We provide them
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the facility of their choice. Our medical staff are very
familiar whenever hospitals have what we call diversion
status. It may -- it's not uncommon, as a good example, for
one of the military trauma centers to not have a neurosurgeon
on duty that particular day. Well, if your injury involved
the head, and there's a likelihood of you requiring
neurosurgical services, we would not take you to that
military installation. Instead, we would take you to the
next trauma facility that does offer that, which could be
another military installation. So, the patient decides
first. If there is a conflict in us believing that that
facility cannot provide that emergency procedure that they
will likely require, then through consultation, we'll come up
'~ with the next facility for receipt for the patient.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let's -- let's suppose
there's no guidance given to you. How is that call made as
to what facility you go to?
MR. SALTER: I would say then the first question
would be -- we break it down into two different categories.
If it is a trauma patient, the patient is going to go to one
of the Level 1 trauma centers, of which right now we have
three in San Antonio; University Hospital, Brook Army Medical
Center, and Wilford Hall Medical Center. If that trauma
patient has military benefits, they would go to one of the
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~~ would be taken to the closest trauma hospital, whether that
, be military or civilian. So, a good example would be
transporting a patient from Kerr County, if it is a trauma
victim, to -- unless they are a military dependent, they are
likely going to be delivered to University Hospital. If you
are a medical patient -- again, it's based upon your needs,
that we're going to make the determination as to where you
go. If I pick up a patient -- they're from California; they
were traveling on I-10. They stopped at a rest area, had a
medical emergency, we pick them up, and we believe that they
have a vascular problem. Obviously, there are a whole host
of facilities within San Antonio that offer vascular
services. We might ask them if they have a preference for
Baptist, Methodist, Santa Rosa, and we would deliver the
patient to that facility. We even deliver patients to
hospitals that do not have helipads. We will land and
provide that last portion of ground transport over to deliver
them to their facility of choice.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just kind of trying to wrap it
up, what I'm hearing is that there's really no intent for the
two companies to get together, and -- or two entities, I
mean. And for legal reasons, possibly.
MR. HILLIARD: Yeah. And they're for-profit; we're
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not-for-profit, basically. And when you look at that, and --
that restraint -- and, certainly, we work together, but we do
~I not work together in terms of reciprocal-type agreements.
The only people I can do a reciprocal agreement with is a not
-- not-for-profit.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: How -- why are y'all
not-for-profit? I mean, is it -- are those hospitals --
MR. HILLIARD: Because University's not-for-profit,
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Guess that's the answer.
JUDGE TINLEY: It seems that our function here
today is, if for no other reason, to provide information and
education to those present, and hopefully through the media
that's present here today, to all the citizens of this area
so that they know that we, in fact, have two services; that
there is not a reciprocity agreement or other collaboration
that membership in one provides benefits into the other, or
vice-versa. And that if they truly desire coverage, they
need to make sure that -- that they have the coverage in
place from both providers in order to avoid the possibility
that that -- they might be facing one of those great big
bills in the event they get transported by air ambulance. Is
that pretty much the bottom line?
MR. HILLIARD: That pretty much summarized, I
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MS. McCORD: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: I noticed you filed a participation
agreement. You obviously had the opportunity to -- to make
some inquiries a while ago. Is there anything additional
you'd like to say?
MS. McCORD: Absolutely.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Please come forward and tell
us what's on your mind.
MS. McCORD: Thank you very much. I did have a few
things -- my name's Heidi McCord -- to pass out. I
apologize, I don't have an extra one for the clerk, but I'll
be glad to give one out. If I may? This front picture on
the very front is the picture of my car in a wreck on
December 30th on Lower Turtle Creek and Highway 16. I was
attempting to turn left on Lower Turtle Creek and was
rear-ended and pushed into oncoming traffic, where I-- my
passenger side was T-boned by the next picture that you will
see behind that, by this Dodge Durango. The passengers in
the Dodge Durango, one man in the back did die. His wife was
also an airlift patient. At the time of the accident -- we
live right there on the corner -- my husband heard the
accident from inside the house. And a passerby witnessed it,
came up and said, "Can I help you?" And I said, "Call my
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husband." I was still within my wits or whereabouts to give
them his phone number and say, "Please call him." So, my
husband was out the gate and at the scene within less than
probably a minute and a half.
At that time, he was with me, and very quickly EMS
showed up there at the scene, and a woman stayed with me the
entire time. And she said very shortly after that, "We
cannot get you out of your car at the moment. There's a man
who's not responding. We will be with you as soon as we
can." But she stayed with me. And she very quickly said,
"You will be transported to University Hospital." And I
said, "I am an Air Evac member. I will not travel on
anything but Air Evac." At the time, I did not know that
there are two companies servicing. She said, "AirLIFE and
Air Evac are here." And I said, "I am only going on Air
Evac. I will wait, whatever it takes." So, eventually I'm
extracted. I get out on the highway, go from an ambulance to
the taking-off point, which is a church just up on the road
on Highway 16. I'm laying down. I'm still yelling and
hollering and screaming. I'm madder than you-know-what, and
I know what's going on. But I'm laying down.
As I'm getting into the helicopter, I'm thinking to
myself, "Praise God, I had the insurance. I don't have to
worry about this." And what do I find out when I see
Wednesday's newspaper? That there is AirLIFE in town. And
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on the very back page, you'll see my bill for $16,000 for a
16-minute ride to San Antonio. That's basically $1,000 a
minute. I thank you for your services. It saved possibly
more trauma. However, I feel that had Ms. McCord -- I--
been told, "Ms. McCord, Air Evac already took off with that
other lady and you're going to have to fly AirLIFE," I would
have said, "Take me in the ambulance and drive me to San
Antonio, 'cause I am not paying that bill."
So, my other point is this. Mr. Maloney has told
me that this Mrs. Hurley was extracted from her vehicle
first. Air Evac was there first, so they got her out first.
I don't know what I had to do to get to the EMS's attention
that I was an Air Evac member. And I know for a fact that
both helicopters were sitting there on the ground waiting,
because they were both there. And I just feel that I-- and
my husband and many witnesses heard me say that. And I just
feel that I don't know what I had to do to prove -- to get me
on the right helicopter, and I did not get on that right
helicopter. And instead of being home and rejoicing in my
wonderful recovery with spinal fractures, blood in the lungs,
stitches, 40 days later I'm here and I'm having to deal with
this, instead of just the stuff I got to deal with, you know,
insurance and everything, and another bill, when I really
thought for once in my life, I was covered for something.
And that's all I got to say. But I just feel like
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EMS is not -- the point you guys are making, this membership
that this -- it isn't that. It's what membership you have.
Yeah, we all better buy them both. But to know which
helicopter's coming to get you, you are not guaranteed of any
of it. And that's the bottom line, and that's what needs to
get addressed here, is if you've got a membership and you
make your voice heard, if they're en route or they're
available, you should be getting picked up by that one. But
I don't know -- none of us are guaranteed which one's coming.
And, you know, if I had known, I'd have had them both.
That's all I have to say, and I thank you for your time.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. McCord. Any -- any
questions for Ms. McCord by any member of the Court?
MR. BEHRENS: I don't have any questions; I'd just
like to comment when she gets through, 'cause I'm an Air Evac
I member.
MS. McCORD: There is also one thing -- I almost
feel like I would like proof, and I don't know where it can
come from, of when each helicopter was dispatched, when each
helicopter landed, and when each one took off. Because the
story that I'm getting is, "Mrs. McCord, you're going to pay
that, because Air Evac was here first and she was out first."
I don't believe it for a minute. They were both sitting
there letting the fuel dissipate into the atmosphere, waiting
for us to get out of our cars. And i feel like nobody did
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JUDGE TINLEY: I think -- I think there are
probably dispatch records that are available, both from
the -- from the Emergency Medical Services, the law
enforcement and so forth.
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MS. McCORD: I'm sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: As well as through the medical
MS. McCORD: When they take off, they have to say
what time they're leaving the area. And I have tried to call
your representative twice for billing, and I've not gotten a
return phone call yet, so I know you can handle that one.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. McCord.
MS. McCORD: Thank you, sir.
MR. MALONEY: Real briefly on that, we will meet
available, so they're very easy to get from our dispatch
agency, and -- or both agencies here. We can have them get
both those.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You had a comment for the --
MR. BEHRENS: Gentlemen, my name's Ralph Behrens.
I came down on another matter that y'all wanted me to report
to you and talk about later, but I just heard the
conversation going on. I am an Air Evac member. I had no
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idea there were two agencies here in town, so this is a
surprise to me. That's certainly going to make me think
before I decide to renew my membership. There's something
else I think the County ought to consider to some extent in
reference to this, is if you're going to decide to spend
county money to get memberships, some people are insured by
their own insurance, number one. Like, I'm on Medicaid, so
Medicaid covers a certain part of the bill. If I have a
supplemental policy, the supplemental policy covers the other
20 percent, or may cover part of this. So, I think the
County needs to think about that before they spend money on
it. Or there's some of our people who are covered that we
don't have to cover anyway.
COMMISSIONER LETZ
The County isn't spending any
I money.
JUDGE TINLEY: County's not funding this. This is
a service to our employees, and they are voluntarily
subscribing or not subscribing as they choose.
MR. BEHRENS: That's just another thing I think we
need to think about. And I'm certainly surprised and glad to
know that somebody's going to -- letting us know there are
two companies in town that we can compare. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other comments with regard to
this subject? Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Eva?
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JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde?
MS. HYDE: I just would like some clarification
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not posted that way.
MS. HYDE: Oh, man. Ilse said she thought it was
MS. BAILEY: You can take appropriate action
regarding the services.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think with this information, we
need to let specifically our employees know that if they want
full coverage, they essentially have to subscribe to both
~ services, give them the information as to both. And -- and
then let's give them an additional time frame in which to
make that decision and go forward accordingly.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are you going to do it through
a payroll deduction like we did AirLIFE, same way? We sign
up the same as we did AirLIFE?
JUDGE TINLEY: If we do it for one, obviously, we
can do it for the other, it would seem. Because that's the
only way you're going to get the benefit of the -- of the
break rate on the other service -- on each of the services.
MS. BAILEY: I think it would be a good idea for
the Court to pass an order at this point amending its
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previous order regarding the AirLIFE service to include Air
Evac, so that Eva can make that offer to the employees for
~ Air Evac services as well. 'Cause in the last one, you ~us
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HYDE: I'm sorry. I wasn't clear, I'm sorry.
JUDGE TINLEY: Good point. Good point. Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do we -- so, I mean, I don't --
through all this this morning, do we have enough information
about what Air Evac -- they can do it the same way?
MR. EULER: I was going to bring it to y'all's
attention, we do have a payroll deduct program as well, so we
can offer that.
JUDGE TINLEY: Whatever the -- it occurs to me that
whatever accommodation which we offered to AirLIFE in the
earlier order, we should offer that same accommodation to Air
I Evac .
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: If our employees so chose on a
voluntary basis, the same as with AirLIFE. And that --
MS. BAILEY: That was -- yeah. That was the basis
of my point.
JUDGE TINLEY: And an order to that effect offering
those same accommodations to both of the services would be an
appropriate amendment, in your way of thinking?
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MS. BAILEY: Yes, and direction to Eva to send out
an informational item to the employees so they know why we're
doing that and what it entails.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And in that context, then,
I think it's important that we let our employee group know
for certain that just the sheer employee membership only
covers that employee while that individual is on Kerr County
business. It does not take care of spouse or family. And if
they want to address those needs, they need to do it in a
different fashion.
MS. HYDE: What I'll do, Commissioner, is I will
put in the $10 is only if you're on duty, but also the
different splits, and then if we have the -- I'll talk to you
before you leave to make sure.
MR. EULER: Yes, ma'am.
MS. HYDE: Perhaps it's a$10 or $15 decrease if we
have 75 people or 100 people instead of the 50, or the 10.
So, just to make sure I've got my facts and figures together,
and then I'll put them both, the AirLIFE information and the
Air Evac information in there, and then I'll ask elected and
appointed officials to insure that it's posted and gone over
with their employees. And they'll get the same 10 days that
we did for AirLIFE, so that we can --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's good. And
just one final footnote on the whole thing, and we need to
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the people in Kerr County know what this is all about, and
that while they think they may be covered, they may be only
half covered, and that they need to address that so that they
don't get caught in the same situation Ms. McCord found
herself.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll make a motion that we
offer the same service or payroll deduction through Air Evac,
~
and authorize Ms. Hyde, through Human Resources Department,
to visit with Air Evac to get the information and communicate
that to the employees.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this a new court order,
or you're amending the old one?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Amending the old one, I guess.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated to amend the prior court order. Now, question or
discussion on that motion? All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. Let's take
I about a 15-, 20-minute recess.
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(Recess taken from to 11:05 a.m. to 11:25 a.m.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Everybody back on the ground
from the helicopter flight? Let's come back to order, and go
to our 10:15 item, which we're just a little bit past. Item
12, an undate on the Friday morning jail docket from
Mr. Ralph Behrens. Mr. Behrens?
MR. BEHRENS: Morning, sir. Morning, gentlemen.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Morning.
MR. BEHRENS: First thing I need to do is make a
correction. I was corrected by Rosa Lavender, and I
appreciate the correction. It's the courtroom in the Law
Enforcement Center; it's not the J.P. 2 jail docket. I
apologize. Just learning my own nomenclature. This was done
rather hastily this morning, and I reviewed it. There's
probably a couple of typos in it, and I was working on stuff
that I had. And I was recently hired to take over for David
Cavazos out at the jail, and Bruce Curry asked me -- or told
me that y'all were going to be meeting at 10:15 this morning
and wanted a report from me. That's my written report. If
you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer all of your
questions. If the bottom-line question to me is, "Is it
doing us any good or not doing us any good?" my feeling is
it's doing us a lot of good. But, of course, that's y'all's
decision, what y'all want to decide on.
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I know that at least before I actually started
about two weeks ago, I spent about 35 years as a defense
, attorney, so it's kind of a turnaround and taking me a little
bit to try and get used to working this side of the docket.
Although I'm not really trying any cases; basically, I'm just
working the docket for pleas. There's a lot of work
involved. And I didn't realize -- I knew there was some,
'cause I talked with David before I took the job. I spend a
lot of my time on the computer, spend a lot of time -- first
of all, my day begins usually about 7 o'clock in the morning
when I get three reports from the jail. I get the arrests
for the day before, I get the bookings, and then I get the
releases. The first thing I do is I look at the bookings and
try to determine what felonies we have, because we only deal
with felonies. And then once I determine if these cases are
felonies -- and sometimes you can't tell. I've got to get
out the statute and look at it, because sometimes you don't
, know how much -- how much drugs someone had to determine
whether it's a felony or misdemeanor, and then some theft
cases, you have to go to different amounts.
So, I first have to determine if it's a felony. If
I determine it's -- if it's a felony, then what I have to do
is go back to the information from the jail, the people that
are in the jail, because it will tell me the date of the
offense. The date of the offense, if it's an odd-numbered
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216th District Court. So, then I prepare in my own mind, on
my computer, what I think is the 198th docket and a 216th
possible docket to handle the defendants. Sometimes they
have to be switched back, because a person may be arrested on
a day that's in the 198th District Court, but maybe for a
violation that was in the 216th. So, sometimes they need to
transfer cases back so that each court can handle them.
The next thing I do after that is -- is I usually
go into what I can get from my home computer from the County
Clerk to determine what we've got in our records in Kerr
County, what their past has been like, so I get some idea of
that, and also maybe what their prior defense attorneys were,
so maybe I'll know who to contact. The next thing that I do
is, once I do that, I determine what court I want to put it
in. Then before I put it on my sheet that I'm working with,
I'm going to go to releases. And I'm going to go to releases
because if any of those people have been released, I don't
have to deal with them, because they're not in jail. By the
same token, the releases will also tell me, if I'm working
anybody else on my other dockets and they get released, I no
longer have to deal with them. Sometimes we have some that
get out on bond, and they come to court at the next sesslon,
'cause they're scheduled. Sometimes we work out pleas with
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i05
those people.
Once I get all of that information, then the next
thing I try to do is get the discovery. If they're arrested
by K.P.D., I have to go to K.P.D. to try to get an offense
report. If they're arrested by Kerr County Sheriff's Office,
I have to try to get an offense report from them. And then
the next thing I need to do, which I'm, you know, learning
how to do -- I don't do it; the Sheriff does it for me, but I
took a class on it last week -- is I have to get criminal
history. Now, then, I have to realize all the criminal
history is not to be disseminated, but only to the defense
attorney. What I try to do during the week is try to gather
all this information, try to get it out to the defense
attorneys, and if I can make an offer, make him an offer so
that when they come to court on Friday, that we can either
work out a plea or set a plea for the next week.
If they come to court on a Friday, we have two
sets -- really, they're set in three different manners. One,
they're set for a plea. If they're set for a plea, then the
information is given to Jane at the 216th and Theresa at the
198th, and they prepare the plea papers, and then their
attorney shows up and we do the plea before Judge Sherrill.
The other one may be violations of probation, and we may have
a plea worked out, may not. The other one is what's called a
status hearing. Probably about a-- about 60 percent, or
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two-thirds of the docket is what's called status hearing,
which means that hopefully they've got an attorney appointed,
and that attorney will come to court on that date and we can
sit down and visit about what we want to do or what we don't
want to do, and then we just work them from there each week
Some of them -- some of them, in particular -- and
the 216th is a little bit different, because Lucy Wilke,
who's the D.A. there, has some special preferences. If
they're drug-free zone cases or other types of cases, she'll
tell me not to handle them and not to put them on the jail
docket over there, because she wants to handle them
personally. As far as the 198th is concerned, I met with
Amos Barton this last week, and they're going to get me some
standard offers that they make, and I'm going to be working
some of their people. I've heard that. And, aaain, I'm
brand new, but I've heard that some people are wondering why
this docket hasn't taken more of the 198th cases, 'cause it's
apparently taking almost all 216th cases. My understanding
from Amos was that when this started back in April of '09,
that the 216th had a real backlog of drug cases, so we had a
-- they had a lot of their cases to handle.
And also, the 216th has got two large counties.
Besides Kerr County, they've got Gillespie, and then they've
got Kendall, so they usually have a lot more people. If
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those people get in our jail on charges, and they're not
being held up there, they're in our jail. Other than that, I
don't know what to tell you, except to say I think it's
beneficial. I think you save a lot from the time they're in
jail and you don't have to deal with that. You don't have to
pay for their cost of jail. The other thing I was thinking
about was -- is you're saving a lot in appointed attorney's
fees, because -- just thinking that normally from 30 to 60
days in jail. If -- and I was one of those attorneys. To
get appointed to represent someone, I only have to go to
court one time or look at one group of discovery. And if we
can work out a plea -- and you can't always do that, but if
we can, then you're saving me having to work more, of tne
other attorney having to work on that for the next 60 days.
So, I would say for each one that's pled out, you're probably
saving another $200 in appointed attorney's fees.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hey, Ralph?
MR. BEHRENS: Yes?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for coming over
today. First of all, I think that you probably need to pay
, us for this education that you're getting. Why are you
laughing?
MR. BEHRENS: It is -- it's an education. I just
don't want to pay you, I'm sorry. I don't have the money.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Hey, an honest
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lawyer. But, you know, a couple of things. First of a11,
the way this thing started was, Rusty starts whining a couple
of years ago about the jail being full, and it was. I mean,
it was full. We were reaching max. We're just -- the State
starts screaming at you, and so we -- this group -- this
Commissioners Court rounded up all the players, we think, and
came into this room at 7 a.m. one morning and had a
discussion about this -- you know, what can we do to -- to
keep from building a new jail? And one of the -- one of the
recommendations was to, well, hire a judge, a visiting-type
judge, and hire a prosecutor and, you know, and not empty the
thing out, but get those moved out that can be moved out.
And we did exactly that. So, that brings me to a question,
and you touched on it briefly, but I-- I'm a little bit
unclear how it works.
MR. BEHRENS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Basically, you handle 216th
as well as 198th.
MR. BEHRENS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But almost every -- I go out
there every once in a while on Friday mornings. I've seen
you out there as a defense attorney. I have -- I don't think
I've ever seen the 198th people out there. I always see
everything that's -- almost everything that has been handled
through there is 216th. How do they do that? And 198th has
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less number of people than the 216th does, and how does that
MR. BEHRENS: Well, I don't know the answer to it.
My guess is, from having been a defense attorney before I
started this, is -- is that it's up to the individual
prosecutor in those courts to make offers. And some of the
offers out of the 198th seem to be a little bit less to
defense attorneys than the offers coming out of the 216th,
but I don't know the reason for that. And that's the only
thing I know. I know that they have pled some over there. I
know that when I was a defense attorney, I think the only
ones I did handle were the 216th. I can also report to the
Court that this week, there were two cases that were there
that were on status hearings for the very first time, and
their lawyers came in and we got them out that day. I called
Jane and we worked out an agreement, and we got Jane to type
up the judgment, and we went over and got it. So -- so, we
got two people out that had probably only been in jail about
three or four days; we got them out. I don't know the answer
to that. I really don't.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then you touched on
~ Lucy's issues of what needs to be handled through you and
what needs to be kicked over to her.
MR. BEHRENS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that real clear of who
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goes to her and who doesn't?
MR. BEHRENS: It is. She sent me an e-mail on it.
I didn't bring it with me, but all I remember was drug-free
zones and some other cases --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. BEHRENS: -- that she was concerned about.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Except, like, there's always
been some kind of argument about that issue. And it seemed
like to me if it's clear, it's clear.
MR. BEHRENS: I can bring you the e-mail, and it
tells me exactly, but I've --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, thank you.
MR. BEHRENS: -- just got kind of gotten it for
right now. Since I'm brand new, since I work for both of
them, whatever they want to do, that's what I do. If they
have some cases that they want to work on in particular --
and I think the reason they want to work them in particular
is because these are more dangerous and important cases, and
they want to get more punishment, don't want to give them a
sweet deal for free.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure. That's all I wanted
to ask him.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. Mr. Behrens,
how quickly are you able to identify companion cases of the
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1_ 11
individuals -- you know, you got the general assignment of
odd days, even days of the offense. But there's also a rule
that if they're companion existing cases, then you package
all those up with the same defendant in the same court. How
quickly can you get that information in order to make that
happen so that you know this one definitely is in the 198th
or the 216th?
MR. BEHRENS: It's going to depend -- right now,
from what I can tell, being there only about two weeks, I'm
going to say probably about 80 percent of them I can figure
right off the bat, because when they're arrested, in jail,
the report that I get on the Odyssey says V.O.P., violation
of probation. It will have a court number, the 216th or the
198th, so I know that immediately. Now, there are a few of
them that I get that I don't know, and when I go back and
I look at the history in the clerk's office, I can see they've
been handled before in other courts. So then I can ask the
question. And then the last way I may find out is when I get
the criminal history from the Sheriff's Office. So, I would
say probably about 80 percent of them I can figure out right
away.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. BEHRENS: I don't know if that's really a big
JUDGE TINLEY: Do you not have access to the
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1.12
pending dockets to be able to run the name of the defendant,
for example, and to be able to identify any existing --
MR. BEHRENS: That's probably -- I never thought
about that. I never thought about that, and I'm brand new.
I don't know why I couldn't go and run those right quick and
check on them. I just never thought about it till this
point, and David hadn't mentioned it to me. And so -- and
usually, a lot of times what will happen is also, like, if I
put them in the 216th and they belong in the 198th, or
vice-versa, I'm usually sending a copy of my proposed docket
over to Kay on Monday or Tuesday, or Tuesday afternoon, and
she looks at it, and she may send me back an e-mail saying,
"This one's being transferred over here,' 'cause they're
already running them over there. But it's just -- you just
kind of have to work through it.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's kind of like the check and
I balance.
MR. BEHRENS: Right. Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. With regard to -- you
mentioned the 198th, that they are in the process -- or have
provided you with guidelines on -- on their plea offers?
MR. BEHRENS: I have some guidelines that were left
to me by David Cavazos. I haven't really looked at them,
because they're kind of like henscratch, and I don't want to
go by henscratch, more or less. So, I've talked with Brad
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McCullouch, and I think I've e-mailed Theresa and asked them
just to send me -- and, obviously, it would be confidential
from everybody as to what their standard offers may be in
certain areas. And -- and as far as the 216th is concerned,
I work with Lucy on those. So, I have some general ideas
myself, but if I have any doubts, I check them with her
first.
JUDGE TINLEY: What percentage of -- and this, at
this time, may not be a fair question to you, based upon your
level of experience in the courtroom, but do you have just
a-- just a ballpark grasp of what percentage are peeled off
because of the limitations placed on you by the 216th D.A.'s
office, that they want to handle those in-house, and what
percentage of cases --
MR. BEHRENS: I can't put any -- I can't even put a
thought to it, 'cause I'm just so new. I don't know.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. BEHRENS: I don't know.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else for Ralph? Thank you.
We appreciate you being here and giving us that report, and
we look forward to seeing how this system works on a
go-forward basis. What I am hearing is that there's going to
be more activity with regards to 198th cases, is exactly what
I'm getting.
MR. BEHRENS: That's what I've been told by Amos
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. BEHRENS: Thank you, gentlemen.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ralph, two things. The --
' as everybody knows, and I'm going to repeat this every chance
I can get, is that the reason that we're doing this is to
avoid spending $10 million of taxpayers' money building a new
jail. We can reduce the numbers in there where we don't --
we're not overloaded; we don't have to spend the taxpayers'
money. And court decorum in here, you're not supposed to
wear a hat, but I'm asking you, would you put your hat on for
us, please? Thank you so much.
MR. BEHRENS: Thank you, gentlemen.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is it "wabbit" season?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's wabbit season.
MR. BEHRENS: I'm the number-one member and the
only member of the Gentlemen's Red Hat Society. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Piece of work.
~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That was enlightening in a
lot of respects.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was a great report.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 14, a timed 10:25
item. If we're dealing in mountain time, we're pretty close.
Request an audit from the Hill Country District Junior
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. I had
', a long telephone visit with Mr. Henderson last week, and he
agreed to come, and he's here with -- with his sidekick. And
what we had talked about was the -- the ability of the
Commissioners Court going out and getting -- seeking grants
to build or rebuild, or whatever we do out at that Ag Barn.
And, as you can see on the agenda today, there are two -- two
items that Ms. Lavender has on there to go to two different
foundations and ask them for grants to do exactly what we're
talking about. So, in my mind, I'm thinking -- I don't think
that you would go to the Peterson Foundation or the -- my
dear friends, the Turners in Houston, and ask them for money
without information; i.e., how many animals are you dealing
with? How much money are you dealing with? You know, how
many people come through there? Those things, you know. So,
the stock show people are the only people that have that.
And, let's see. Do we -- did we actually use the word
"audit"?
JUDGE TINLEY: You did, yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, in our conversations
-- you know, and I don't know. I've never done that. I
~ don't know if you go to them and you have -- just have a
Ii clean piece paper with a bunch of numbers on it. I have no
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idea if that's sufficient to ask them for money, or do you
need a full-blown grant -- I mean a full-blown audit? I have
no idea. But I just wanted to get the ball rolling and ask
Rusty to come and be prepared to give us whatever he's got so
that we can get this process started. So, I present it to
you, the honorable Rusty Henderson.
MR. HENDERSON: Thank you, Mr. Baldwin.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Golly, "mister." Listen to
I this .
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure this wasn't preplanned, this
I exchange?
MR. HENDERSON: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sounds that way.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want me to take them and
pass them around?
MR. HENDERSON: Yes, please, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: We want one too, Buster.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm trying to get there.
MR. HENDERSON: What you'd asked for the other day,
Commissioner Baldwin, as you can see on that sheet, this is
2004 through 2010. We've got a total number of entries,
total number of exhibitors, less the number of county
exhibitors. And your total number of out-of-county
exhibitors on that average comes to about 848, or about 850
exhibitors from out of county. And we assume that they're
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going to bring at least one parent with them, so there's
i
' right around 1,700 people, and the estimated cost per day of
I~I attending our show, hotels, meals, incidentals, we figure
$75. Estimated revenue is $127,200. The economic impact
multiplier's 3.6 percent. That's based on the Dean Runyon
Associates, the economic impact of travel on Texas, and that
comes out to the economic impact on Kerrville is $457,920 a
day that that stock show brings in.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: A day?
MR. HENDERSON: A day. So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And how many days are we
talking about?
MR. HENDERSON: Tuesday through Saturday.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that five days?
MR. HENDERSON: Five days, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a lot of money.
'~ MR. HENDERSON: So, as you can see, it's been
referred to before, that goat barn brings in quite a bit of
money for the Kerrville area.
JUDGE TINLEY: I would suggest that your per diem
cost is probably very light.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: Very conservative. That's a Spartan
existence. That means they bring two or three sack lunches
with them when they show up with them here, and --
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hotel room.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. I mean, it's --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Of course, that's per person.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
MR. HENDERSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you got a family of three,
times three, you can buy motels and eat for that, I think.
MR. HENDERSON: But I also have --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: At least where we stay, you
I can.
' MR. HENDERSON: I also have here a financial
statement and our tax return and our budget for this past
year. So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's important,
~ Rusty.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's important.
Important for the Court to know, 'cause we are dealing in --
as you know, we're dealing with taxpayer-supported
facilities, money and services, and so that's important.
Appreciate you doing that.
MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to know whether or
not this is sufficient for Rosa's purposes, however.
MS. LAVENDER: Well, I don't have any idea, 'cause
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's real basic.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Mr. Henderson will give
JUDGE TINLEY: You're -- Ms. Goldman, you had --
you had some comments?
MS. GOLDMAN: Well, I wanted to answer
Mr. Baldwin's -- Commissioner Baldwin's question. You had
I asked about the Peterson Foundation. We currently receive a
grant from them, as well as the Turner Foundation, and they
accept our unaudited financial statements. So, as far as the
stock show and our information flowing into whatever you do,
this is stuff that Peterson and Turner currently sees.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They accept this piece of
paper?
MS. GOLDMAN:
financial information,
Foundation has already
to award the grant for
least a good starting
information.
Well, Rusty also has a packet, our
yes. That's information that Peterson
received for this year that they use
the 2010 show, so I think it's at
~oint as far as the association's
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If you -- if you can put
these two things together, would you call that an audit?
MS. GOLDMAN: No, an audit is something that you
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would hire an independent accounting firm to come in, much
like the County has an audit where you have people who come
in and sample your financial information, test transactions.
We have made a change to our bylaws, and we will have an
audit for 2010. We've never had one, because the
organizations that we apply for grants to have always been
satisfied with the financial statements that we have.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
money going back to the children, we've used the compiled
financial statements, which is the term for financial
statements that have not been audited.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. You routinely provide
that to the County Auditor? Or will you routinely provide
that to the County Auditor?
MS. GOLDMAN: Are you asking us?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon me?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not saying anything.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm just asking a question.
There we go, line of sight.
MS. GOLDMAN: To my knowledge, it's never been --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Will you routinely provide
that to the County Auditor?
MS. GOLDMAN: To my knowledge, it's never been
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Consider this a request.
MS. GOLDMAN: I mean, that would be presented to
the board. I mean, Rusty, don't you feel like that's
reasonable?
MR. HENDERSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- just to follow up a
little bit, I think what the -- the Auditor has made us very
much aware that we need to keep very accurate records
everywhere, and -- and compile all kinds of information. And
since taxpayers fund the facility indirectly, help fund
the -- y'all's organization, plus y'all receive revenue out
there, that we really need to have a copy of it, just to keep
our -- our books in order. Isn't that right, Ms. Hargis?
MS. HARGIS: I would -- yes.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. It's not money we have
control over, but it's just a reporting thing.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like volunteer fire
departments.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER
Volunteer fire departments do
it, ESD's do it.
MR. HENDERSON: I don't see a problem with that at
And, I mean, we'l1 bring it before the board, but --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
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JUDGE TINLEY: If they should not agree to that,
would you let us know?
MR. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. I don't think that'll be
( a problem.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions from either --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: None at all.
MS. HARGIS: Ms. Lavender and I just had a little
brief discussion, and probably we would need at least two
years. I know they've probably given us -- what did you give
us, just the current financials through -- through February?
MS. GOLDMAN: You have 2000 -- well, that's
actually our March -- we are at fiscal year end March 31st,
so we have another year end that is fast approaching. So,
would you like '08 and '09, or do you want us to get you 2010
as soon as it's complete? I mean, '08-'09 are there. I
mean, you have '09.
MS. HARGIS: I'd just like to just see the current
books as of, say, February -- January 31, or February --
February 28th.
MS. GOLDMAN: We're working on those. They have an
executive board meeting Wednesday evening, so we can deliver
a copy of the financial statements through January 31st.
MS. HARGIS: Okay. So, what I have here is really
last year?
MS. GOLDMAN: Yes.
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JUDGE TINLEY: They're just about at the end of
another fiscal year, though, in another couple of months.
II So --
MS. HARGIS: Well, but I think February the 28th,
March the 1st is -- February 28th is the end of your year,
isn't it? Or is it March?
MS. GOLDMAN: March 31st.
MS. HARGIS: Till February 28th, give us an idea,
'cause we're going out for these grants; we need that
information now.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Whatever they've got up to
date, okay. Anything else?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Rusty, thank you.
MR. HENDERSON: Thank y'all.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate you being here. Sorry
for the delay. Y'all got a helicopter ride in the meantime,
though, didn't you?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: About lunchtime, too.
JUDGE TINLEY: You may get a bill, unfortunately.
But --
MR. HENDERSON: Thank y'all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 15; to consider,
discuss, and approve resolution for the submission of the
General Victim Assistance Direct Services program grant
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proposed for 2010-11 to the Office of the Governor, Criminal
Justice Division, purpose of the grant being to fund the Kerr
County Crime Victims Coordinator program for another year.
We got to let you earn your way here.
MS. LAVENDER: Can I make a comment? This would be
the sixth year to ask for funding for this. Last week the
governor issued a deal, the mandate that all of the state
agencies cut down 5 percent on their budgets for the new
fiscal year, but victims services was excepted out of that
order, and so I'm not real concerned that the money is not
going to be there. It just depends on our grant writing
ability to be able to convince them to fund it for a sixth
year. When you get to the sixth year, you get into one of
those "Are they going to continue to fund it?" questions.
And there are a few grants in AACOG region that have been
funded longer than five years. But, you know, that's also a
reality that we need to be prepared for. So, we'll do our
best. We -- I believe we can probably get it for another
year.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval of the grant
application and the accompanying resolution.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
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JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We will move
to Item 16; to consider, discuss, and approve resolution for
the submission of the grant proposal to the Sterling-Turner
Foundation in Houston, purpose of the grant being to fund
renovations to the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center.
Ms. Lavender?
MS. LAVENDER: Well, a year ago we came to you with
a proposal to send a grant application to the Meadows
Foundation in Dallas, and so a 1ot of background work on
submitting this one has already been done. Unfortunately, we
did not get the Meadows Foundation, but we're going to look
at them again also. Sterling-Turner is out of Houston. The
woman for whom the grant program is named after was married
to one of the original founders of Exxon -- Exxon Humble Oil
Company, and she has funded -- or through that foundation, in
her memory, has funded a considerable number of grants, and
several of them locally. Schreiner University has been a
recipient. The livestock association, the -- both the Hunt
and Ingram Volunteer Fire Departments, Young Life locally,
and Hill Country Youth Ranch have all received funds through
Sterling-Turner. And so we would propose to write a grant
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application to them for a$250,000 matching grant, because we
do have 250,000 in our budget to match that amount.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- the resolution says for
Phase I. Phase I was which part?
MS. LAVENDER: We probably need to take the term
"Phase I" out of there. The reason we used Phase I was
because that's what we had used with the Meadows one, and if
you want to delete that little part of it, we can do that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Or put in Phase II.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think just say renovation. I
don't think you need to identify --
MS. LAVENDER: Take out the phase on it?
JUDGE TINLEY: That would be my preference too,
that we not be specific.
MS. LAVENDER: I can get that back to you after
lunch.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. LAVENDER: We can do that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
MS. LAVENDER: Takes about two seconds to delete
it, reprint it.
JUDGE TINLEY: With the -- with the deletion of
"Phase I," do I hear a motion for approval of the resolution?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We will move
to Item 17, to consider, discuss, and approve resolution for
the submission of a grant proposal through the Hal and
Charlie Peterson Foundation, purpose of the grant being to
fund renovations to the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center.
MS. LAVENDER: Again, the Hal and Charlie Peterson
Foundation is local. They're very community-oriented, very
youth-oriented. Although we know that there's limits to the
funding of that foundation, we're going to ask for $100,000
from them. Not sure what -- you know, whether they will be
able to fund that much, but we feel like that that would put
us a long way toward getting some of these renovations done,
and so we want to get that done this month also. All three
of these grants are going to be due before the 5th of March,
so I'm going to be doing a little grant writing here the next
few days.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My question is, do we need to
put in an amount?
MS. LAVENDER: With the Peterson Foundation, for
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them to send you the grant application now, all these have to
be e-filed by computer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MS. LAVENDER: You have to tell them how much
you're asking for, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Was there a number in the
I Turner?
JUDGE TINLEY: 250.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 250 matching.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Matching.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, yeah, I remember.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Five? 250 match, that's
what you're talking about?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, we match -- we -- they
do 250, we match it with 250 to make five.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, is there a negative
going with a larger number in, really, both of them?
MS. LAVENDER: No, there's no negative to going
with them.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause, I mean, the projects --
you know, if we're going to try to go really forward on
building that new barn, we're talking about a million dollars
we need.
MS. LAVENDER: Right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We have a renovation of another
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500,000. I mean, just to go out with ballpark numbers, that
doesn't count. The other part of it is, you know, the
Sterling-Turner, the Cailloux, and the Peterson are our --
our big three, local. And, you know, to me, we -- I don't
I know how we coordinate, kind of -- there's one big project
MS. LAVENDER: Well, the other option that we have,
get these amounts of grants, there are some local people --
I individuals who possibly might be interested in donating a
significant amount of money.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MS. LAVENDER: That would help us get on down the
road with this. But I think if you -- I think if you don't
put a number to them that's reasonable, I think they're going
to set them aside and say, "We can't afford that rate," you
know.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think you've got to kind of
set your sights on what you think you might be able to get
from them, or what they might be able to fund.
MS. LAVENDER: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Rather than trying to ask for
$2 million, when you know you're not going to get but 50,000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Quantum leap.
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MS. LAVENDER: That's a quantum leap. And maybe
that's the reason -- and Meadows encouraged us to -- to redo,
and with this, I think that's -- I think that piecemealing
it, you know, smaller amounts might get it further than
trying to go for the full amount at one time, is the point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think you put the full
amount. I'm just wondering -- I'm not sure where the
Peterson Foundation is on their commitment with the hospital,
which is kind of taking a large portion of theirs.
MS. LAVENDER: I know that they're limited. I just
wrote -- I wrote grants last year for them for Habitat and
also for Crimestoppers, and I know the philosophy behind it.
What I got at that point with them was that they are pretty
limited on the amount of money that they have currently for
grants.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What -- what -- I guess, what
~, happens if we get 250,000 -- or, you know, 200 from one and
100 from the other, whatever. That's not enough for us to
complete a big phase.
MS. LAVENDER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, already I think you're
going to have to prioritize what there is out there that has
to be done, based on the available funds that you have to do
it. But, I mean, except the problem is there's -- there are
three distinct -- four if you do the actual rodeo arena, but
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there's the renovating the arena. There's building a new
show barn, which is tearing down the hog barn, all that
stuff. Then there's building a-- what do you call the other
facility? The event center? The event center. So, I mean,
you know, if we're going to set our priorities, I think, you
know, it makes sense to go for the show barn and the
renovations, or the first two, 'cause that's directly related
with the youth; that we'd, you know, make sure we're asking
for enough money to do that. I mean, I don't -- you know --
MS. LAVENDER: I'll be glad to write it for
whatever y'all want me to write it for.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just kind of putting it out
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think we have a couple of
other things that -- there are a couple more individuals
that --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we want to try to tap
their resources.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, I thought we
were dealing with just the agriculture components now, not
the other multipurpose potential facilities.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's -- I think you
need to look at it. I think that the -- most of the
foundations have more of an annual-type process, I would
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think, you know, because they're trying -- they budget as
well. And my thoughts are that, you know, we really -- the
time -- from a construction cost standpoint, the time to go
for most of it is right now. We're not going to get a better
deal on the -- the cost, so I think we need to break it up a
little bit, but I think we -- you know, we need to be asking
for some of these big people. I understand -- Bruce and I
have talked about, you know, going to people and meeting with
people and all that, but I think these foundations are going
to likely be a core component of a project out there, and I
think we need to make -- you know, make sure we ask for
enough to do what we're trying to get done.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, if we ask
Sterling-Turner for half a million, could we match half a
million, to make it a million? Maybe we go --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we ask Sterling-Turner
for a matching half a million. That gives us a lot of
leverage to go towards a couple of individuals and say, "Hey,
we need 100,000, and with 100,000 we can make this match. We
have a million dollars to build this facility. I--
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're really asking for a
million, half of which we put up.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Or -- or somehow -- I mean, I
think the -- the show barn, I don't know the exact numbers.
I mean, maybe we ought to look at --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 900-something, wasn't it?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, that's the indoor arena.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But we know from -- we may
know, from just what we did on the new building, that that
cost can be half that, especially for a building that doesn't
have --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- all the components that --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I think that's right,
but you're still looking at a million and a half. So, I
think, you know, we need to come up with a-- in my mind,
a-- a dollar sum, which to me is probably close to
two million that we need. And if we can get more, great. We
can get -- build the other stuff, two million, figure out how
we're going to get to two million. And I think we need to
be -- you know, in reality, it's going to take some of our
local foundations giving more than $350,000 to get to
two million. So, I mean, I think, you know, half a million
for the Sterling-Turner, and maybe 250 for the Peterson. You
know, and maybe it can be over a two-year period with
Peterson Foundation, 'cause we're not going to get anything
built in a year -- or the whole thing. I mean, so a two-year
period, possibly. I mean, you know, it's --
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We can't talk about the other
foundation, really, because it's not on the agenda.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know.
MS. LAVENDER: That's right. We haven't talked to
them. So, you want to go with 500 from Sterling-Turner?
And -- 500,000?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my thought.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's fine, I'll go along.
MS. LAVENDER: And 200 --
JUDGE TINLEY: And with the proviso that it's a
multi-year --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commitment.
MS. LAVENDER: I'm not sure they'll do it, but
we'll try that. Okay. And then what with Peterson? How
much?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: 250.
MS. LAVENDER: 250, okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the one -- well, nevermind.
All right.
MS. LAVENDER: And then we'll investigate some more
and bring those back to you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
MS. LAVENDER: To approve.
JUDGE TINLEY: The resolutions before the Court
don't specify the amounts; they just merely specify who the
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application's being made to.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Correct. The only thing you'll
probably see with the resolution is get rid of Phase I.
That's already been deleted, or we're going to delete that.
' COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: On both of them?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Here's the other one.
JUDGE TINLEY: One of them's signed. The other is
pending a vote.
THE CLERK: We need a motion.
JUDGE TINLEY: We need a motion first before we can
I vote .
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: All right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Move approval of the
resolution requesting Sterling-Turner Foundation --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This one's the Hal and
I Charlie.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The grant proposal be
I submitted.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And approved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Wait a minute. We've already taken
action on the Sterling --
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Did we do Sterling already?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, well, I'll rescind that.
We'll go forward with the same thing for Peterson.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion on the motion? All in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
MS. LAVENDER: You have updated resolutions --
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure do.
MS. LAVENDER: -- thanks to Jody, so we don't have
to worry about coming back after lunch.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure do. We've got them here.
MS. LAVENDER: Thanks, Jody.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. That brings us to Item 18;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action on implementation
of the burn ban.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
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approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry. Number 19;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action to confirm
nomination of Lieutenant Bill Hill as Kerr County AACOG
i representative on the Criminal Justice Advisory Committee and
Lieutenant Jeffrey Wendling as his alternate.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. The
only thing that bothered me was Jeffrey being a city
employee. We can -- we can appoint city employees to things?
I COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think this is really a
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, it's a reappointment.
MS. BAILEY: He's a captain, isn't he?
JUDGE TINLEY: He's a captain.
21
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MS. BAILEY: It says lieutenant. You might want to
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's a captain, not a
reappointment.
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lieutenant.	
JUDGE TINLEY: Do we have a motion?	
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.	
THE CLERK: Yes.	
JUDGE TINLEY: And a second?	
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.	
JUDGE TINLEY: All right. All in favor	, signify by
raising your right hand.	
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)	
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.	
(No response.)	
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry.	Item 20 is
to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to	reappoint
Bobbie Lesser and Patsy Lackey to AACOG Criminal	Justice
Advisory Committee, Patsy Lackey as the committee	member and
Bobby Lesser as the alternate. Actually, those a	re just
reversed from what they were this past year.	
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval.	
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.	
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded	for
approval. Question or discussion? All favor of	the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.	
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)	
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.	
(No response.)	
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JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 21 is
to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to authorize
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bruce and I met with 4-H folks.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Horse club.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Horse club. And kind of a
drawing as to what they would like. And we, I think, both
concur as to it's reasonable and what they need, and that is
to take down the old facility -- well, build a new facility
over there where it's shown on our master plan, essentially,
slightly shifted. And the idea was really to try to get them
moving pretty quick. We have the funding for this, and next
step is to get some drawings, I guess, with Peter Lewis, see
if we can come up with some actual drawings and put it out
for proposal to get the turnkey construction, basically. We
talked to -- because I talked with them on the basis of doing
it through volunteers, all that, it's just -- it's going to
happen a lot quicker, be a lot more -- better if it's just
turned out to some contractors. And there's a-- primarily
local contractors, I suspect, will be interested in doing
this.
COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	Oh,	yes.
COMMISSIONER	LETZ:	There'	s a number that are very
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qualified for this type of work. Primarily, it's welding.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They gave us a plan. We went
with them last Friday and made some changes on it, just
slight changes about the design, and gave that to Peter Lewis
' this morning. He said he would put it to scale. And meet
with him and do a little more specifying of what some of the
materials to be used and that sort of thing, just kind of so
he can finalize it and put it -- get it ready for bid.
JUDGE TINLEY: Question. Do you anticipate that
your bid would call for the demolition of the existing
facility as part and parcel of the construction of the new
facility? With even possibly an alternative of separate bids
for each from possible interested contractors, somewhat like
we did on the --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Windows.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, on the -- on the Sheriff's
Office annex, where, if a contractor's interested in either
phase or both phases, they can -- they can bid one or the
other or both?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a good idea.
We're going to -- I think that there's some things that we
need to salvage, like the bleachers. Jon looked at those,
and those are aluminum seats that we can take and rebuild,
or --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Reuse.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- reuse at the new place.
' somebody to make that thing disappear whenever we need.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, and soon. I think it's a
good idea to put it in there, and I think we handle it kind
of like we did the site work. You know, see what thev're
salvage value of the materials, except what we exclude, and
then we consider if it makes more sense for us to do it
in-house or let the contractor do it. There is a fair amount
I of value to a-- a contractor that's likely to bid on this to
I some of that material over there.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's what I'm talking about. They
may give us a turnkey bid to do both. And, considering the
value of the material, --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not cost really anything.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- it just nets out that way.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think that's a great idea.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about restroom
facilities?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not included.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not included this time.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we -- if -- what's your
thinking? We let them in the building?
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: There -- the idea is that there
is -- where the 4-H maintenance shed is, there's a corner
left there to build restrooms, and there is --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We left that uncemented on
purpose.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There is a spot right there,
and the position is going to be closer to that and moved up a
little bit, so it'll kind of be like an "L" to that building.
And the rest -- you can just use -- those restrooms will be
used for this facility, and also for --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: 4-H.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- 4-H people when they need
restrooms over there as well. So, restrooms are a different
bid. That will be coming along soon.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: To do that. Tim may want to do
that in-house.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's why he raised his hand.
MR. BOLLIER: I was just going to ask a question.
That also includes those outside bathrooms, right? To tear
down?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
MR. BOLLIER: Once we get that other on the other
side?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
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MR. BOLLIER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Whatever septic is there will
need to be abandoned.
JUDGE TINLEY: Remediated, I think is the term.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Mediated?
JUDGE TINLEY: Remediated.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Forensic mediation?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But Ms. Calcotte and others
were there. They were very happy. They're going to hold
Commissioners 1 and 4 accountable for the whole project.
Luckily, 2 and 3 got -- we eased out of that one.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She will.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'm not sure that was a--
well, she did say that, but --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You think she was kidding?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that they're going to
hold the whole Court accountable.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I've known her a long time.
She doesn't joke about things like that. She doesn't think
it's funny.
JUDGE TINLEY: We need a motion for approval of the
agenda item.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
Oehler and myself to kind of coordinate this.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
II COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Have a little input on the
JUDGE TINLEY: Al1 in favor of the motion, signify
by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 22 is
to consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve the
contract with ImageTek, Incorporated for scanning and
indexing of records in the County Clerk's office in
accordance with the approved '09-'10 archival plan and
authorize the County Judge to sign the same. Ms. Pieper?
MS. PIEPER: Yes. Back when we were doing the
budget, the statute states that we have to do a written
archival plan every year with a public hearing, and therefore
I did that, and it was approved. And in that, we had
discussed having my documents scanned and indexed, and so I
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went, I got two bids. And both companies that I went through
are with the state bidding, so I didn't have to go literally
out for bids. Anyway, I've got the cheapest price on here --
let me see where I have it at. Anyway, we're going to pay it
out in three years. This year we have 80,000 budgeted for
it, and then the next two years, we'll be paying $67,445.35.
And this comes out of the Records Management, the dedicated
fund.
JUDGE TINLEY: Has the County Attorney reviewed the
I contract --
MS. PIEPER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- that's before the Court today?
MS. PIEPER: Yes, she has reviewed it, and then I
have also talked with the Auditor as well.
MS. BAILEY: I made a couple of changes to it, and
the other party has -- has approved it, and they've been
incorporated.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did the Auditor say?
MS. HARGIS: The cash flow is sufficient to cover
those payments.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those are good words. Good
I words.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Al1 opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
MS. PIEPER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Section 4 of the agenda,
if we have nothing further on the main agenda. Payment of
the bills.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to pay the
bills. Question or discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a-- I got a couple
of questions here, I think. Page 1.
JUDGE TINLEY: Starting on Page 1?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Page 1?
MS. HARGIS: Page 1? You didn't get past Page 1?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are we paying the bills?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Page 1, Commissioners Court,
the Roeder -- Gabriel Roeder Smith and Company, professional
services. What might that be?
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MS. HARGIS: That's our actuarial that -- that's
part of our financial audit for this year.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we do that annually?
MS. HARGIS: We have been working on that. This is
the first year that it's required. And hopefully it's an
every-three-year upgrade from now on, but it will have to be
part of our audit from now on.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: But hopefully we don't have to redo
the figures but every three years. Because once we have the
base done of the number of people that we have, we're going
to just be adding employees that may have quit or passed
away, or new, which might change our numbers.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. About halfway down
that page, Court-appointed civil attorneys. I guess in --
you know, just by -- just by looking at that piece of paper,
I can't tell if it's Court-appointed attorneys out of -- out
of Judge Tinsley's (sic) court or if it's Court-appointed
attorneys out of Fredericksburg or what. But I guess I could
get the budget and look up 407.
MS. HARGIS: 407 is our new C.P.S. line item.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is our new C.P.S. line item,
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I knew that; I was just
AUDIENCE: Oh, lord.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About halfway down, the jail
court expenses. I see -- now we were reported to this
, morning by Mr. Behrens that David Cavazos is no longer an
employee, and we're paying him 2,500. I'm assuming that that
completes his service to Kerr County. I'm assuming that that
completes his service to Kerr County?
MS. HARGIS: I have not looked at that, so I will
not answer that question till I do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you very much. I can
still assume it, though, whether you know it or not.
MS. HARGIS: Well, I'm -- you know, unfortunately,
sometimes these folks cross over months, and so I need to see
what his invoice says.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure this is a simple
thing. I really haven't gotten to my question yet. And then
Ralph -- our dear friend Ralph with the goofy hat is -- he's
into us there a little bit. Now, here's my question. When
and if Judge Sherrill turns in an invoice for his services,
will it be in -- in this area right here?
MS. HARGIS: Yes. And Judge Sherrill doesn't turn
them in monthly; he generally turns them in --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I think he
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served this county 25 years without turning one in.
MS. HARGIS: -- quarterly or something.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I understand his
operation. Thank you very much. That would be me.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions or comments?
~, All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
I hand .
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry.
MS. HARGIS: Judge?
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sorry.
MS. HARGIS: I have one more that we -- that we had
removed from the list, and I need to add to the list. This
was for radio equipment as part of a grant, and I pulled it
because I thought it was in association with the cars; I
didn't want to pay it till the cars got here. But these are
hand-held radios for the Juvenile Probation Department, and
in the amount of $3,915. Again, these are funds that are
coming out of the grant that they just received from the
stimulus money.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the grant funds are in-hand?
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: And the radios are here?
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MS. HARGIS: Well, grant funds are not in-hand. We
JUDGE TINLEY: A reimbursement grant?
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: But the radios are here?
MS. HARGIS: Radios are here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: Now, I do want to make the Court aware
that all those grants that we got from -- from the governor's
, office are reimbursement grants, so we're going to have to
spend those funds and then get reimbursed. So, we're going
to have to buy the five cars for Rusty. We're going to have
to buy the cars for Juvenile. We're going to have to pay for
the 198th's software system and then be reimbursed. It's a
monthly reimbursement; generally doesn't take long. It's the
same reim -- same granting agency as we use for Rosa, so
we've not used them for anything else but Rosa's grant for
the last few years, but these are government -- these are
governor's grants. So, we have to -- we have to apply for
funds, and then we get reimbursed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, where do the funds ~ome
from to do that? Do we have to declare an emergency, take
them out of reserve?
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MS. HARGIS: It's a-- when it's reimbursement,
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cash -- what cash fund?
MS. HARGIS: We just -- we'll probably -- we set it
up in Fund 10, because that's where our major cash fund is.
And -- and we have a receivable set up from the governor's
', office, and these grants are already online. I made sure
they were online, that the funds were approved. And they're
actually spelled out in the governor's office now, these new
grants that we have are every 30 days. We can get reimbursed
every 30 days, but we can't for at least 30 days.
JUDGE TINLEY: For accounting purposes, then, when
the grant's been approved, in essence, it's budgeted as a
receivable?
MS. HARGIS: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: And so you charge it against that
receivable, and then when it's reimbursed --
MS. HARGIS: It zeros out. It's not an expense to
us, 'cause it zeros out. The Homeland Security grant that we
did last year for 125,000, remember? I came back to you on
that. It's the same situation. And these reimbursable
grants, when they come up and ask for these, and we know
we're going to have to pay out first and then be reimbursed,
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, expense to us. It's a receivable. It's a different --
different animal.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Do I hear a motion to approve that
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: I have a motion and a second for
approval. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion does carry. Okay. We got
some direct payables that you ar~
me ask first if you got -- looks
direct payables here.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that
MS. HARGIS: Yes. One
presenting to us now. Let
like you got two different
Yeah.
not correct, Ms. Hargis?
of them is requested.
Remember, we spoke about that. One is actually requested by
the department head. The other is to avoid the late
payments. The Atmos Energy, again, we have to get -- those
are our utility bills. Ikon apparently gives us a real short
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MS. HARGIS: That's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are these --
MS. HARGIS: -- the same --
way. I have fought Walmart every -- for all my clients
wherever I've ever been. They give you five days to pay
their bill, and they like to assess you with a late charge.
These are the ones we know we get the late bills on, so we --
we have them as a regular payable. The others are generally
for training, and the folks ask for these training checks
generally about two weeks before they go. I don't want to
give them to them too early. So, if you'll look at these,
most all of these are for training purposes, and that's
the -- the reason we have direct payables. But, again, the
reason I'm doing this is I want the Court to understand all
the checks that go through my office; that you're aware that
people are going to travel, that you're aware of their
training. Yes, you've approved this in your budget, but this
way you know. And -- and I just feel more comfortable with
you knowing every single check that goes through my office,
so you're going to get a copy of every single check.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. Now, here's a
separate piece of paper that says purchase order receipt
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask my question. Are
~ these a part of this as well?
MS. HARGIS: Two separate -- two separate ones.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, I see Atmos -- Atmos
Energy on here, and I see Atmos Energy on here. You just --
you referred to Atmos Energy on here.
MS. HARGIS: I just referred to it on the first
one. I don't think it's on the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. What is this I have
I here?
MS. HARGIS: That is the bills that we pay that
would have a late charge on them if we didn't pay them.
That's usually --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. This is all late fee
stuff on this one here?
MS. HARGIS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask a question about
I one other --
MS. HARGIS: I'll try
know the answer.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
this Atmos Energy, I understand
MS. HARGIS: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN:
Walmart's a big building out he
to answer it, but I may not
Well, that's fine. I mean,
that's gasoline for somebody.
Ikon is a copy machine.
re west of town. But what is
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MS. HARGIS: David Havis is with Adult Probation.
You really don't have to approve that one, but unfortunately
it prints out on the report. He teaches the drug classes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that $725 is for his
MS. HARGIS: Right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Thank you very
I much .
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's actually budgeted, isn't it?
MS. HARGIS: Yes, they have it budgeted.
MS. BAILEY: Buster, that's a grant-funded payment.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. It's,
like, DWI's or something? Or --
MS. HARGIS: No, it's actually their drug and
alcohol abuse classes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah.
MS. HARGIS: And he provides that service to us,
and he has actually an assistant that also works with him.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool and groovy.
JUDGE TINLEY: We have a motion and a second.
Further question or discussion on the direct payables? All
in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
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JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That motion does carry
Do we have
MS. HARGIS: No, we do not.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any late bills?
MS. HARGIS: We do not.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I've been handed monthly
reports for Constable, Precinct 4, for December '09 and
January 2010; Constable, Precinct 4, Racial Profiling for
2009; Constable, Precinct 1, for January 2010; Justice of the
Peace, Precinct 3; County Clerk for January 2010;
Environmental Health for 2010; and Kerr County payroll for
January 2010. Do I hear a motion that these reports be
approved as presented?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second -- third.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded that the
indicated reports be approved as presented. Question or
discussion on the motion? All in favor of the motion,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
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assignments. Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For the benefit of not only
the Court, but the working press here, we're going to be
doing a public hearing in Center Point on February --
February 24th; I believe it's 6 p.m., for the purpose of
satisfying the public's need to know where we are in the
project, and Water Development Board's wanting some
affirmation that -- that this is a project that people would
like to see move forward. I'd like to get with both of you
sometime between now and the next few days and talk about it
in-depth so that we can have some good notification of that
meeting and so forth and so on. And I note with interest in
the morning paper that, if I read correctly, some 600-plus
people have opted out of the CCN project with the city of
Kerrville, and that's on the agenda for discussion tomorrow
night.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That could be a mistake.
According to the letter I saw, if they -- if they opt out,
what I read from the City Manager was you have the option to
opt out, but if you do, you may never get city services
again.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My goodness.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did I not read that?
~ COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You read it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you did.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that could be a mistake,
to opt out. I mean, that seems fine and fun and everything,
and --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's --
' COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- but I don't know if
that's the way to do it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's a real threat, isn't
I it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it is. Scared me.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A real curveball, isn't it?
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else, Commissioner
I Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only -- I've got a
bunch of stuff working with the -- the habitat conservation
plans and all this other stuff. We won't go into all that
today. But anyone that wants to go to Del Rio, Region J is
meeting there Thursday at 10 o'clock.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, really? Del Rio?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Supposed to be green down
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I was just thinking
MR. BOLLIER: Jody said she'd be more than happy.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe we'll reschedule it for
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be beautiful
I downtown Del Rio?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Held at the Del Rio Bank and
Trust building. Right next door, there's a great restaurant.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Makes me want to go.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything further?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, you're going to get my
liaison report about the jail population, 'cause our Sheriff
has gone to assist in a sale. It's going to be real short;
not going to have a lot of comments about it. Total jail
population as of 8 o'clock this morning, 146. Females, 24.
He has space for 32. Males, he has 122. He has a total 160,
so there you have it. Twenty-six -- the 216th has 37, 198th
has 23, County Court at Law has 28, and we have -- 15 of
those prisoners are from Gillespie County.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else you wish to offer?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not particularly.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Do we have any reports from
elected officials or department heads? Ms. Bailey?
MS. BAILEY: I really just have an announcement.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's running for office.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MS. BAILEY: What?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you running for office,
~ by any chance?
MS. BAILEY: Perhaps. The Kerr County Attorney, in
conjunction with U.G.R.A. and the Kerr County Environmental
Health Department, are going to be presenting an outdoor
burning workshop at U.G.R.A. on February the 18th from 5:30
to 8:30 in the evening. We're going to have presenters from
those three agencies, as well as city fire marshal, the
Sheriff's Department, Department of Agriculture.
Commissioner Baldwin will come talk about the burn ban from
the Commissioners Court perspective. We're going to do a
press release later on today, but I just wanted to make you
all aware of it and make sure that you know you're all
invited to come and participate.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: With -- on that, I happen to
~ trying to get Bill Armstrong, is who I recommended to come
talk about prescribed burning, if they can get Bill over
there, because their current group over there is not real
well-versed in -- in prescribed burns.
MS. BAILEY: I have spoken to a person from the
Department of Agriculture, and they have recommended that --
that Gary Plough come and speak on their behalf.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
MS. BAILEY: I have spoken to him, so they -- he is
a representative. It's not Bill Armstrong, but --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's good.
MS. BAILEY: -- it should be a good discussion.
We're going to have some handouts so that citizens should be
able to get all those different perspectives all together in
one place. I'm kind of excited about it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other elected officials or
department heads wish to give us a report? H.R.?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure am hungry.
MS. HYDE: This will be quick. Here's enough for
Cheryl too. I was real excited to report to you before the
decrease in our medical cost as far as prescription plans;
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The December cost
MS. HARGIS: Re-came back up?
MS. HYDE: Re-came back up. And what I just handed
you is one of the reasons why. This is the latest in what
our new -- what the drug companies are doing. And what it
', basically is, is a little credit card that they give to the
doctor's offices and to the pharmacies that can be used in
conjunction to pay a person's co-pay, and it's up to 50 bucks
on their co-pay. Imagine that. It's right in line with what
your -- what we increased co-pays with, and it's up to 12
times per year. Imagine that. Thirty-day supply, 12 times.
So, next Commissioners Court I'll be bringing to you --
requesting that we no longer accept this for any of the
companies, and that these seven drugs that went on the higher
co-pay will now be an approval -- preapproval process drug,
because of these things.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tell me again, now. A
doctor -- I go in to my doctor, and he has his own little
credit card. And I have -- no?
MS. HYDE: It's the drug companies, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's a drug company
person sitting there with their own little credit card, and I
have my own little credit card, right?
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MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I want to use mine,
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they want to use
theirs -- I'm not going to finish that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where are you going?
MS. BAILEY: It might be better if you wait till
she puts that on the agenda for -- just -- it sounds like
we're getting into consideration rather than --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just don't know; you're
going to have to convince me. What's government doing
involved into telling them how to run their business? I
have -- I have -- I can make my own decision.
JUDGE TINLEY: The drug companies that are --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can't talk about it.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- on this other tier are attempting
to cover the financial disincentive that we have created to
get us back into paying for the high-price drugs on that
fourth tier by helping the employee cover the disincentive
that we created. That's the bottom line.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And we'll discuss it next
meeting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In the meantime, don't use
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't use their card.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Any other elected
official or department head? Any more business? We are
adjourned.
(Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:40 p.m.)
STATE OF TEXAS I ~
COUNTY OF KERR ~
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATEDat Kerrville, Texas, this 12th day of February,
2010. ~
JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
sY : ~~/N•clG-----------------
Kathy Ba ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
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ORDER NO. 31608
AWARD BID FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANNEX/ADULT PROBATION
BUILDING
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Accept the bid and award the bid to Kendnel Kasper Construction Company in the
amount of $780,822.00 for Bid Packages 2 and 3, as submitted, and include Alternatives
2 and 3 as recommended by the Project Architect, and authorize the County Judge to
enter into a Contract for the construction of this building, (excluding Bid Packages 1 A, B
and C since the County will be performing that work).
ORDER NO. 31609
CONSOLIDATING POLLING LOCATIONS FOR RUN-OFF ELECTION
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve consolidating the Polling Locations for the possible April 13, 2010 Run-Off
Election to be:
Precinct 1- River Hills Mall
Precinct 2 - Union Church
Precinct 3 - Commissioners' Courtroom
Precinct 4- Ingram Presbyterian Church
ORDER NO. 31610
30 MPH SPEED LIMIT SIGNS ON RED BIRD LOOP
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve installing four (4) 30 mph speed limit signs on Red Bird Loop, located in
Precinct 2.
ORDER NO. 31611
NAME PRIVATE ROAD, SHERI LANE NW
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 3-0-1 to:
Approve naming a Private Road, Sheri Lane NW, located in Precinct 4.
ORDER NO. 31612
FINAL ALTERNATE PLAT FOR LOT 1 AND LOT 2 OF STEVENS RANCH
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Final Alternate Plat far Lot 1 and Lot 2 of Stevens Ranch, located in Precinct 2.
ORDER NO. 31613
FINAL ALTERNATE PLAT FOR LOT 76 OF STONE LEIGH RANCH
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Final Alternate Plat for Lot 76 of Stone Leigh Ranch, located in Precinct 2.
ORDER NO. 31614
QUARTERLY INVESTMENT REPORT FROM PATTERSON AND ASSOCIATES
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Acknowledge receipt of Quarterly Investment Report from Patterson and Associates for
quarter ending December 31, 2009.
ORDER NO. 31615
AIR LIFE/AIR EVAC EMERGENCY HELICOPTER MEDICAL SERVICES
PROCEDURES
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve amending the previous Court Order No. 31561 to offer the same service of
payroll deduction for Air Evac as we do for Air Life, and authorize Ms. Hyde, through
Human Resources Department, to meet with Air Evac to get the information and
communicate it to the employees, for additional coverage for emergency helicopter
medical services procedures.
ORDER NO. 31616
RESOLUTION FOR SUBMISSION TO GENERAL VICTIM ASSISTANCE-DIRECT
SERVICES PROGRAM GRANT PROPOSAL FOR 2010-2011
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioners Oehler/Baldwin, the Court
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Grant Application and Resolution for the submission of the General Victim
Assistance-Direct Services Program Grant proposal for 2010-2011 to the Office of the
Governor, Criminal Justice Division, to fund the Kerr County Crime Victims Coordinator
Program for an additional year.
ORDER NO. 31617
RESOLUTION FOR SUBMISSION OF GRANT PROPOSAL TO STERLING-
TURNER FOUNDATION
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Resolution, with the deletion of Phase I, for submission of Grant proposal to the
Sterling-Turner Foundation in Houston for a matching Grant in the matching amount of
$500,000.00, with a proviso that it is a multi-year commitment, for funding renovations
to the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center.
ORDER NO. 31618
RESOLUTION FOR SUBMISSION OF GRANT PROPOSAL TO THE HAL &
CHARLIE PETERSON FOUNDATION
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Resolution for submission of a Grant proposal to the Hal & Charlie Peterson
Foundation in the amount of $250,000.00 to fund renovations to the Hill Country Youth
Exhibit Center.
ORDER NO. 31619
BURN BAN
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve implementation of the Burn Ban.
ORDER NO. 31620
AACOG CRIMINAL JUSTICE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Confirm nomination of Lt. Bill Hill as the Kerr County AACOG Representative on the
Criminal Justice Advisory Committee, and Lt. Jeffrey Wendling as his Alternate.
ORDER NO. 31621
AACOG CRIMINAL JUSTICE ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve reappointing Bobbie Lesser as the Committee Member, and Patsy Lackey as her
Alternate, to the AACOG Criminal Justice Advisory Committee.
ORDER NO. 31622
REQUEST FOR BIDS/PROPOSALS TO CONSTRUCT NEW OUTDOOR RODEO
ARENA
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve authorizing going out for request for bids/proposals to construct a new outdoor
rodeo arena at the Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center, including Commissioners Letz and '
Oehler coordinating these efforts. '
ORDER NO. 31623
CONTRACT WITH IMAGETEK, INC.
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously'
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve Contract with ImageTek, Inc. for scanning and indexing of records in the
County Clerk's Office in accordance with the approved 2009/2010 Archival Plan, and '
authorize County Judge to sign same.
ORDER NO. 31624
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, came to be considered by the Court
various Commissioners Precincts, which said Claims and Accounts are:
Accounts Expense
10-General	$	187,802.99
14-Fire Protection	$	23,672.00
15-Road & Bridge	$	29,799.82
16-Capital Projects	$	51,239.28
21-Title IV-E	$	187.50
23-Juvenile State Aid Fund	$	249.95
26-JP Technology	$	3,673.20
27-Community Corrections	$	2,100.00
50-Indigent Health Care	$	18,260.38
76-Juv Detention Facility	$	3,256.50
83-216`h District Attorney	$	747.84
86-216t" CSCD	$	3,306.15
93-SADDP-009	$	352.00
TOTAL $ 324,647.61
Upon motion made by Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the
Court unanimously approved by vote of 4-0-0 to pay the claims and accounts.
ORDER NO. 31625
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve adding and paying for Radio Equipment as part of a Grant (hand held radios for
the Juvenile Probation Department) in the amount of $3,915.00.
ORDER NO. 31626
DIRECT PAYABLES PAID O1/28/2010, PURCHASE ORDER RECEIPT REGISTER
AS OF 02/04/2010 AND A/P DIRECT ITEM REGISTER AS OF 02/04/2010
Came to be heard this the 8t" day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve payment of the Direct Payables Paid January 28, 2010, Purchase Order Receipt
Register as of February 4, 2010 and the A/P Direct Item Register as of February 4, 2010,
as presented.
ORDER NO. 31627
MONTHLY REPORTS
Came to be heard this the 8th day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioners Oehler/Letz, the Court
unanimously approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve the Monthly Reports from:
Constable Pct #4 for Dec, 2009 and Jan, 2010
Constable Pct #4 Racial Profiling for 2009
Constable Pct #1
JP #3
County Clerk for Jan, 2010
Environmental Health for Jan, 2010
Kerr County Payroll for Jan, 2010