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KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT
Special Session
Monday, February 22, 2010
9:00 a.m.
Commissioners' Courtroom
Kerr County Courthouse
Kerrville, Texas
PRESENT: PAT TINLEY, Kerr County Judge
H.A."BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1
WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2
JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3
BRUCE OEHLER, Commissioner Pct. 4
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2
I N D E X
February 22, 2010
--- Visitors' Input
--- Commissioners' Comments
1.1 Presentation concerning Water Saver Landscape
Contest for residential Kerr County properties
to be held during spring of 2010
1.2 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
offer from Liberty National Life to sponsor
county employees to receive a $3,000 accidental
death policy at no cost to employee or County
Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
adopt a Kerr County Mission Statement
1.4 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
concerning capital improvement funds; make
necessary budget amendments or adjustments
1.5 Presentation from attorney Rolando L. Rios
regarding the redistricting of commissioner
precincts and the upcoming decennial census
1.6 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
set a public hearing to add stop sign at
Roundabout Lane and Sandy Lane, Precinct 2
1.7 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve the Bid Proposal Policy
1.8 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve Maintenance Department to build a
10' x 10' enclosed office space for Chief
Deputy in the County Clerk's Office
1.9 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
appoint John Carlson as a member of the Kerr
County Child Services Board
1.10 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve use of Flat Rock Lake Park June 12, 2010,
by American Legion, Elks Club, and VFW, for
conducting carnival and flag retirement ceremony
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1.12 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve contract with Kendnel Kasper Construction
for new Law Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation
Building and related improvements 52
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I N D E X (Continued)
February 22, 2010
PAGE
1.13 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action to
approve contract with Freese-Nichols, Inc., for
engineering services related to repairs of Flat
Rock and Ingram Dams 53
1.14 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
personnel issue regarding Prescription Plan
modifications pertaining to Kerr County medical
prescription plan 55
1.11 Presentation by David Mendez with Bickerstaff
Heath Delgado Acosta LLP regarding the 2011
redistricting 89
1.15 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
personnel issue regarding insurance coverage,
privacy officer, and new business agreements
signatures required for Kerr County 108,196
1.16 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action on
personnel issue regarding new HIPAA, COBRA,
CHIPRA, and other Legislative changes requiring
mandated notifications required for Kerr County
employees 116
1.18 Consider/discuss, take appropriate action
regarding chili cook-off scheduled for April
2nd and 3rd, 2010 at Flat Rock Lake Park 135
4.1 Pay Bills 141
4.2 Budget Amendments 141
--- Direct Item Register 145
4.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 149
5.1 Reports from Commissioners/Liaison Committee
Assignments ---
5.2 Reports from Elected Officials/Department Heads 150
1.17 Presentation by the City of Kerrville on
proposed Certificate of Convenience and
Necessity for water application to the Texas
Commission on Environmental Quality 151
Adjourned 208
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On Monday, February 22, 2010, at 9:00 a.m., a special
meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in
the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse,
Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in
open court:
P R O C E E D I N G S
JUDGE TINLEY: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
Let me call to order this regularly scheduled meeting of the
Kerr County Commissioners Court posted and scheduled for this
date and time, Monday, February the 22nd, 2010, at 9 a.m. It
is that time now. Commissioner Letz?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. Please stand and join me
in a moment of prayer, followed by the pledge.
(Prayer and pledge of allegiance.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. At this time, if there's
any member of the public or the audience that wishes to be
heard on a matter that is not a listed agenda item, this is
your opportunity to come forward and tell us what is on your
mind. If you wish to be heard on an agenda item, we'd ask
that you fill out a participation form -- there should be
some located at the rear of the room -- so that we'll know
that you want to be heard on that item, and hopefully I won't
skip over you when we get to that point. If you wish to be
heard on an agenda item and you've not filled out a
participation form, that's fine too. Just get my attention
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in some manner when we're handling that item, and I'll give
you the opportunity to be heard. But right now, if there's
any member of the public or audience that wishes to be heard
on any matter that is not a listed agenda item, feel free to
come forward and tell us what's on your mind. Yes, ma'am?
If .you'll tell your name and address, and tell us what's on
your mind.
MS. McMAHON: Morning. I'm Diane McMahon, 1904
Daniel Drive in Kerrville. Good morning, Judge Tinsley (sic)
and the Commissioners. I have two brief comments to make on
two separate topics. The first .one has to do with bicycling.
I would just like to remind the Commissioners that as we do
county or TexDOT road improvements, to keep in mind that good
shoulders make for good bicycling. We get a lot of
bicyclists in the county as tourists who like to ride in our
area, as well as local residents who do, so I would just
encourage you to keep that in mind as you do road
improvements. The other comment has to do with the L.C.R.A.
power lines. I've driven all across I-10 from the west side
to the east side, and there's no more beautiful section than
what we have here in the hill country. It really discouraged
me to hear that one of the proposed transmission routes is
through the hill country along the I-10 right-of-way. I
understand the rationale, because there's right-of-way there.
But I think there's more involved than just the right-of-way.
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What we have here is unique. You know, Kerr County, we're so
lucky; we've got this beautiful river, wonderful people,
beautiful scenery, and a lot of people come here for those
reasons.
If we have 170-foot towers spanning the whole
length of I-10, I wonder how appealing that this will be to
tourists. I think we make a lot of money in our county from
tourism, and I think it could have a negative effect. I also
think that a lot of people I've talked to don't seem to get
spun up about this like I do, but I moved here because I
think it's gorgeous. I love this county. And to me, it'll
totally destroy it forever if we've got these power lines
going along it. I'would propose that whatever influence the
Commissioners have, if you agree that we need to protect one
of our most precious resources, that we encourage them to put
them elsewhere. If they're determined to put them along that
right-of-way, then bury them. I was just talking to the
reporter here, and she said, well, it saves money buying
property if you put it out on the public easement. That's
true. But then the money you save, bury the power lines, and
you've got a win-win. If that's not feasible, at least
consider using poles rather than towers. But I think there's
something going on that we really need to think about and
consider carefully, because what happens is going to affect
this county forever. So, that's pretty much what I have to
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say. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am. Anyone else
wishing to be heard on any matter that is not a listed agenda
item? Seeing no one else coming forward, we will move on.
Commissioner Letz, have you got anything for us this morning?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: A couple comments. I'm going
to, if it's all right with everyone, step out round 9:40 to
go over to the GMA-9 meeting for an hour or so this morning.
Unfortunately, I can't be in two places at once. Another
item, I think several weeks ago I mentioned about this other
committee that I got put on, the Southern Edwards Plateau
Habitat Conservation Plan. And as it turns out, I'm co-chair
of that group along with Kirby Brown, who's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Along with who?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kirby Brown.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Who is that?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kirby's the executive director
of the Texas Wildlife Association. And, anyway, it's --
Kirby and I are heading that up, and largely, I think we got
put in there because of our -- both of our strong stances
protecting private property rights.
MS. McMAHON: Jonathan, could I add, the P.U.C. is
going to make a decision on those transmission lines before
they've had time to review the environmental impact
statements. Since you mentioned habitat protection, I
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thought I'd add that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. The -- I'm involved with
that. There's a meeting of the Hill Country County Coalition
this Friday that everyone's invited to in Fredericksburg,
trying to go over the next legislative session. I think Paul
Sutton will be at that meeting to give kind of a review of
what's going on, what committees have been formed. And this
Wednesday or Thursday, pending our schedules, I'll be meeting
with Councilman Motheral to try to work out ETJ issues.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He's going to be here this
afternoon. Why don't you talk to him then?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it'll probably be more
productive if we meet one-on-one.
JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Oehler?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No, nothing this morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Baldwin?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir, thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: I, too, will have to step out a
little bit before 11:00. I've got a commitment that I must
make, and will be back this afternoon for the CCN
presentation. Let's get on with our agenda. The first item
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on the agenda is a presentation concerning Water Saver
Landscape Cost contest for residential Kerr County properties
to be held during the spring of 2010. Mr. Lipscomb?
' MR. LIPSCOMB: Thank you, Judge. Good morning to
you and Commissioners. First, I might just start off by
' saying the good news is I'm not here to ask for any money.
(Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: That's always good.
MR. LIPSCOMB: Yeah. Just wanted to tell you about
a new event for Kerr County. Starting this year, spring of
'10, open to all residential properties in Kerr County,
there'll be a Water Saver Landscape Contest. And the
important part of that is the "water saver" part; it's really
to make the public aware of our water situation, how critical
it is, and how we all need to really think about conserving
water. And a lot of people say that you can use -- up to
50 percent of the water that comes to a home is used in the
landscape. So, the idea was if -- if that much water's
really used in landscape in a lot of residential properties,
if we could impact that area, we could save a lot of water.
So, that's why -- that's the idea behind the contest, to
reward individuals who have done something to make their
landscapes more water conservative, and to, in general, make
the overall public kind of aware of the things that you can
do to conserve water and, obviously, save,-- save money too.
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There'll be a pamphlet; this is a black and white
version. There will be a pamphlet that will be distributed
around the local businesses later this -- well, next month
and -- and in April. The sponsors, I might just mention, for
this contest, people that are putting up the money is
Headwaters Groundwater Conservation, U.G.R.A., Public Works,
City of Kerrville, and although they're not putting up any
funds, the AgriLife Extension Office has been a great help.
There'll be eight prizes. There'll be a total of $1,260 in
gift certificates awarded to eight winners. There'll be four
businesses that'll be participating in -- in providing these
gift certificates. Let's see, what else?
JUDGE TINLEY: Who are the businesses?
MR. LIPSCOMB: The businesses are -- I have three
confirmed businesses, and that will be the two local
nurseries; that's Plant Haus and Alltex, and Hill Country
Stone, and I'm currently still working with Lowe's. Lowe's
helped out last year, and this year they were a little
more -- with the economic situation, a little more
conservative, so I had to make a request to their corporate
office. And I haven't heard back yet, but I think they'll be
on board. And let me just say, since I mentioned last year,
last year we did this contest just within Kerrville, people
who received -- excuse me, residents who received water from
city of Kerrville. We did that for the first time last year,
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and this year we're expanding it out to the whole county. I
think that's about it. I'll be glad to answer --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you --
MR. LIPSCOMB: -- any questions.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What kind of criteria -- or
what are some of your thoughts? A couple things pop in my
mind. Are you -- do you look at rainwater systems? Do you
look at plants that are conducive to this region, that kind
of thing?
MR. LIPSCOMB: Well, yes. Certainly, native plants
are great, because they require less water and less
maintenance, more drought tolerant. There are seven criteria
that the judges will use. Let me rephrase it; there were
seven criteria that we used last year. Quite honestly, this
Tuesday the judges are going to meet and talk about the
criteria. We may adjust them somewhat. But they dealt with
things like low water maintenance, color landscapes, how you
used your hardscapes, you know, your driveways and sidewalks
and maybe rock walls and such, those type of criteria. The
front landscapes are the only thing that are judged. And
most people, if they have a rainwater harvesting system,
don't put it in the front.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right.
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be completed to enter the contest, and one of the questions
on that entry form has to do with rainwater harvesting. So,
the judges will be aware that there may be a unit sitting in
the back yard.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, mm-hmm.
MR. LIPSCOMB: Okay. And the reason for the -- for
the entry form is there's so many things in your landscape
that you couldn't see even if you drove by. And I think a
good example is, like, if you have a drip irrigation system
under your mulch. You know, you drive down the street; you
wouldn't know that just looking. So, the -- the entry form
pulls that kind of information out, makes it available for
the judges.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fantastic. Good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Lipscomb?
Thank you very much for being here.
MR. LIPSCOMB: I have some cards that just have the
dates, the key dates.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, wonderful.
MR. LIPSCOMB: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There you go.
MR. LIPSCOMB: And there's some information on the
back of the cards, too. Thank you so much for your time.
JUDGE TINLEY: You bet. Thank you, Mr. Lipscomb.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
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JUDGE TINLEY: We'll move to Item 2; to consider,
discuss, take appropriate action on offer from Liberty
National Life to sponsor county employees to receive a $3,000
accidental death policy at no cost to the employees or the
County; notation here that that matter is already -- the
offer has been completed with the City of Kerrville.
II Ms. Miller?
MS. MILLER: That would be me.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes.
MS. MILLER: My name is Robin Miller; I represent
Liberty National Life Insurance. We are a 109-year-old
financial services company that was originated in Birmingham,
Alabama. And in 2008, I guess somebody in Alabama figured
out that "sweet home" actually wasn't in Alabama, and they
relocated their corporate Headwaters to McKinney, Texas.
So --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty cute.
MS. MILLER: Thank you. I'm a little nervous this
morning; I'm kind of shaking a little bit, 'cause I'm cold,
not so much because I'm nervous. But what I would like to
talk to you about this morning is one of the ways that our
company advertises is with this $3,000 accidental death
policy. We don't advertise any on television, on the
Internet or anything like that, because we don't believe that
that is the way that people should make decisions about the
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future of their family if something happens to them due to a
death or a catastrophic illness. So, what we're doing here
Wilbarger, Foard, Hardeman, Cottle, and we're currently
enrolling Montague and Knox. Those are kind of up around the
we sit down with each one of the employees, and we give them
keep that policy, it's $10 for their whole family for the
whole year. It will pay $3,000 on the employee, $3,000 on
their spouse, and $1,000 on each one of their children that
they still have living at home. So, you get -- actually, you
know, you can get $10,000 or $15,000 worth of coverage,
depending on how many -- how many people you still have in
your home. And the price of the policy will never go up, and
the face value of the policy will never decrease. And then a
lot of times what people say, "Well, Ms. Miller, why is your
company doing this? What's in it for your company?" Well,
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what it does is it gives us the ability to get in front of
people and actually talk to them about their insurance needs.
One of the things that we have found, a very common
factor here in the counties in Texas, is that they -- you
guys do offer life insurance policies to the -- to the county
employees. But a lot of the counties have purchased what's
called a decreasing term. That means that over a period of
time, the face value of that policy decreases every year.
And then, when people get ready to retire at 65 or 70, they
have a life insurance policy that's only worth $2,000 or
$3,000. We've even seen one in Cottle County that was only
worth $500. So, then you have a 70-year-old person that is
getting ready to retire that has $500 worth of life insurance
and didn't realize it. So, it gives us an opportunity to
talk to people, to maybe help them out with additional needs
that they have. One of the products that sets Liberty aside
from a lot of the other companies out there is we have a
group term to 100 policy. Now, what that means is that's a
term life insurance policy that is good until they are 100
years old. The face value of that policy will never
decrease; the premium will never increase. And the most
important thing about it for employees is, because they
purchased it through the work site, they are able to take it
with them when they retire. It's portable. They don't have
to convert it over into any other type of policy. And their
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premium will stay the same. So, do you gentlemen have any
questions for me?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. Let's pretend that we
have other accidental death policies.
MS. MILLER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And Bill gets run over by a
kangaroo on the way home, and it's an accidental death.
MS. MILLER: Y'all have kangaroos here?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Big ones.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There are some.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: There are some.
MS. MILLER: No, I've been here before.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They all live near my
house.
MS. MILLER: I buy cars here. My uncle owns the
car dealership here. I've never seen a kangaroo.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You've just not been to the
right area.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You can't believe car
dealers. (Laughter.) And I'm working on insurance salesmen
right here. And Bill dies.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh my god.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's an accident.
MS. MILLER: So sorry, Mr. Williams.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good gosh, it's an accident,
Bill. It wasn't anything -- on purpose deal. Can -- is he
-- is his family going to be able to collect from -- this is
a question that we should have asked from the damn helicopter
people.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Will he be able to collect
from both? Or --
MS. MILLER: He can collect on as many policies as
he has. That's one of the things --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did you get that, Kathy?
MS. MILLER: Yes, collect on all policies, any life
insurance policies that he has. He'll be entitled to the
funds from them. If they have an accidental death rider on
them, he will be entitled to any funds from that, plus any
other policies that he has. We work in conjunction with
other policies. We don't single out that you cannot have
more than one policy.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. Thank you,
Ms. Miller.
MS. MILLER: Well, and you -- you can't really bury
somebody decently for $3,000; that just adds to something
that they -- that they already have. And we're in
recessionary times, and a lot of times the very first thing
that people drop is, if you've got to pay your mortgage, your
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light bill, and your car payment and your life insurance,
you're going to let -- you're going to roll the dice and let
the life insurance lapse.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Question. You're talking
about a $3,000 accidental death policy.
MS. MILLER: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But what you're really
talking about -- correct me if I'm wrong -- is that you want
to sell term life insurance to our employee group. Would
that be correct?
MS. MILLER: We use the accidental death policy --
we give them to that -- we give them that policy as a gift on
behalf of Liberty National and the county. And that gives us
an opportunity to sit and visit with them, and for them to
ask us questions about maybe coverage that they already have.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's a marketing -- marketing
I vehicle.
MS. MILLER: Yes, because that's how we spend our
advertising dollars. We don't have a -- a duck or a gecko or
anything like that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No gecko? Oh, my.
MS. MILLER: No gecko.
JUDGE TINLEY: Have you talked with -- with
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MS. MILLER: We have. We've spoken --
JUDGE TINLEY: -- Manager?
MS. MILLER: We have. We've spoken with the County
Clerk. We spoke to the Treasurer. We've spoken to the
people in H.R., and we have also talked to a gentleman by the
name of Gary Looney, who represents Alamo Insurance in San
I Antonio.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. MILLER: And got very favorable comments back
MR. HAMEL: Absolutely. I spoke with Ms. Hyde.
JUDGE TINLEY: And your name?
MR. HAMEL: Oh, thank you. My name's Todd Hamel.
I also work with Liberty National more in the area here, and
met with Mr. Looney, who said that both our group term
product showed good value, nice, very limited underwriting,
and was unique in its offer to the employees. And I've gone
back to Ms. Hyde and represented that he gave me a favorable
opinion, and we brought it to the Commissioners Court.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let me -- let me make a suggestion,
if this is appropriate. That whatever -- whatever
information that you have that you want to impart to the
employees, that you do that through Mrs. Hyde. She works
with the employees --
MR. HAMEL: Okay.
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JUDGE TINLEY: -- on a daily basis, and this is her
bailiwick. She works regularly with Mr. Looney, and that
would seem the appropriate vehicle --
~~~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- to handle this matter, it occurs
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MR. HAMEL: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: But I understand, it's a marketing
vehicle that you folks have that gives you the opportunity to
get exposure. You may get nothing more, but you're not going
to get it if you don't get the opportunity, and I understand
that.
MR. HAMEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: The question I have is that,
assuming -- say we do this. How many contacts are you going
to make to an employee? If you -- say you call me and I say
I don't want to talk to you any more. You won't ever call me
again?
MS. MILLER: No. And the only place we contact
them is here at the workplace. Let me explain in general
kind of how we do that. We're unique in how we do that. We
get a roster with all of the supervisors on the roster. We
contact the supervisor and see what time is best for their
department for us to visit with those employees. We don't
ask them to herd everybody up to the courthouse or
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We are aware that there are people that work shifts. We
people that work 11:00 to 7:00, whatever we need to do,
benefit package, and that we're giving them this policy on
behalf of the county. And then we tell them that we have
other products available if they would like to take a look at
those products. If they tell us they are not interested, we
do not push them in any way, shape, form or fashion.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: My initial pulse on this is no.
in and say, okay, they're going to give the County $500 if --
if they get all the employees, or they're going to give us
1,000 if they're going to give the employees -- whatever.
It's just -- I don't know how you stop it. And I don't like
This
Court chooses to go down that road, I would be pretty, I
think, adamant that the meetings be voluntary after work or
before work, something, not during work.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or during open enrollment.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Open enrollment. I don't know
that I want our employees to be taken out of their work to go
listen to -- basically, to a sales pitch.
MS. MILLER: It takes -- it takes about five
minutes, and that's when we normally do it is during open
enrollment.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway, I'll let you -- I kind
of go along with the Judge; I think you visit with Ms. Hyde,
the H.R. department, let her kind of sort it out a little bit
and come back with a recommendation.
MS. MILLER: Any other questions?
JUDGE TINLEY: Any other questions?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do have one more. You had
named a couple of counties out in the panhandle somewhere.
MS. MILLER: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And do -- do they normally
do a payroll deduction and the employee pay for it? Or is it
like a gift from the county?
MS. MILLER: If -- on the accidental death policy,
there is no obligation whatsoever on behalf of the county.
At the end of the first year, if they elect to keep the
policy, they'll get a little card in the mail telling them
that it's time to renew the policy, and they just send in $10
with the card.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
MS. MILLER: Now, if they do elect to purchase some
other type of benefit from us, that is generally a payroll
deduction, because you have a Section 125 set up here which
saves the employee tax dollars and saves the county tax
dollars, and so that would -- those products would be
included in that 125.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
MS. MILLER: Thanks.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, sir. Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. MILLER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Appreciate it. Let's go to Item 3
on the agenda; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to
adopt a Kerr County mission statement. Ms. Lavender?
MS. LAVENDER: Good morning. One of the
requirements for the grants that we approved the resolutions
for two weeks ago is that the County have a mission
statement. And so I contacted Commissioner Williams and
sought his help in doing this. And I think you went to the
TAC web site and found some mission statements, some other
similar county situations. And --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, what we did was --
yeah, we did a little research. Jody did the research.
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Thank you, Jody. And we did go to TAC, but I don't think we
ever heard back from TAC. We researched some of the larger
counties in the state, only to find out that we could -- we
could get ahead of the curve by doing it ourselves. And so
what you see in front of you is... (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: When in doubt, do it
~ yourself?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Exactly.
MS. LAVENDER: The cost was right also.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The price was right. So,
what you see is the product of mine and the Judge's efforts
together, and it's open for discussion and change. There is
no pride of authorship.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Looks good. It's simple, to
~ the point.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the way we wanted to
~ keep it.
MS. LAVENDER: I think it will fit in that little
~ square.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: When you look at the
possibility of listing everything we do, we say, my gosh,
who's going to read that? You know. So, keep it simple, the
old "KISS" --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: KISS theory.
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JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go --
MS. LAVENDER: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- go to Item 4; consider, discuss
take appropriate action concerning capital improvement funds
and make necessary budget amendments or adjustments. High
Sheriff.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I would hope all of y'all got
the backup to this. I think it's pretty well
self-explanatory. From using that in that capital
improvement stuff, there was a total of about 800-something
thousand -- 818,000 that was earmarked for kind of a lot of
', the Sheriff's Office, jail, and courthouse security
improvements. And since all that time the budgets have been
done, there's been a lot of changes done. And I think that
if we reallocate or use a lot of that earmarked for other
things, about 635,000 of the 818,000 is what the Sheriff's
Office/Courthouse Security and jail actually needs. And then
I'm asking for the 80,000 that you'll see on the proposal at
the top of the second page, so that it would mean that 101 of
that -- 101,000 of that money can be reallocated however the
Court desires, and that won't need to be earmarked for the
Sheriff's Office any more.
And in doing that, and in accomplishing those, it's
going to use about 88,000 on top of everything out of my
seizure fund. And then at the very bottom, you will see what
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all the accomplishments will need to be done using that
money, which will replace our patrol fleet, except for the
three Tahoes we have now. The rest of them will be replaced.
All jail radios will be replaced. We'll have 12 additional
cameras and all hard drives associated with the recording
equipment in the jail. Camera system will be replaced, video
conferencing from the -- two of the main courtrooms at the
courthouse, being District Court Number 1, and being County
Court at Law being the second one.
Now, this video conferencing system actually, in
the District Court Number 1, is a pretty expensive system.
It will -- the cameras will actually zoom in on whoever is
talking, whether it be the defense attorney, the witness, the
Judge, the prosecuting attorney, or evidence being shown. An
inmate will be able to be in the video conferencing room at
the Sheriff's Office or at the jail and be able to watch it
all and see it from there if they don't have that inmate
here, or plea packets are done from here. The inmate will be
able to sign documents via electronic that will be sent back
and forth. And if an attorney wants to visit their client
totally separate, they will be able to log into the system
from their office, if they have the right equipment at their
own office, and visit with the client at the jail without
having to clog up the system over here of transporting all
those inmates back and forth. It's all been reviewed -- I
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think Trolinger's in here --
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- by John. It will fit with
the master plan of maybe someday having a foundation set here
that will incorporate what Judge Tinley was getting to, where
the other counties in this area will be able to do the same
thing with our attorneys here and the judges being here. And
then it will give the courthouse one Ford Expedition that we
', currently have got 76,000 miles on it. It's a three-seat
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Expedition that will be able to be used for any of the
trainings or conferences. People at the courthouse have been
asked about that. And it will put a low band radio in our
dispatch's -- tied into our dispatch console, which is where
Len Odom's people will be able to call directly in from their
radio system they have and talk to our dispatchers if they
need to. I think that will be a big benefit for Len's
~ people.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mr. Trolinger, I saw something from
you recently dealing with a possible grant request on the
video teleconferencing system, and I know you guys have been
collaborating on what the Sheriff has put together here, but
if we can use somebody else's money for the video
teleconferencing part, I'd prefer to do that rather than use
ours. Where are we there?
MR. TROLINGER: From my reading of the Indigent
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Defense Grant, it's very strictly limited to those functions
of indigent defense. So, we want to focus in the -- that
very expensive piece on indigent defense, and see if we can
segregate that. Sznce this is used for multi-function, I
don't think it would pass the initial muster of the Indigent
Defense Grant.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I know several years ago,
more than 50 percent of their discretionary grants under the
Indigent Defense program went to video teleconferencing
systems. That was, what, three, maybe even four years ago
now. In more recent years, there's not a whole lot of that
discretionary grant money. Have -- have you checked with
Ms. Lavender, tried to incorporate her help on grant requests
as it pertains to maybe some video components that we can
pull into this thing?
MR. TROLINGER: I have not. And the company I'm
working with that Ms. Bailey got us started on last year is
-- has actually helped me. They have a grant writer, and
they've done this for other counties.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MR. TROLINGER: And the big picture on it is
there's something called a video teleconference bridge that
we desire to have, and that's what I'm going to use the
Indigent Defense Grant to -- to pull all this together with.
It's a very expensive piece of equipment.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. So, there is an additional
MR. TROLINGER: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Where you've got your sights set to
try and pull in with grant funding?
MR. TROLINGER: Affirmative.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Okay. That answered my
question, then. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Two comments -- oh, go ahead,
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff, on -- you're
listing the current balance of your seizure fund as 163,000,
from which you're going to ask to expend 88,000. My question
is, is that 163 just your seizure fund, or is that the
infusion of dollars that came from 198th also?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That 163, well, it -- it's our
seizure fund, okay?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, 198th had -- you know,
because of that joint case, okay, we did receive a share of
that, which is the majority of my seizure funds. But that is
Kerr County Sheriff's Office seizure fund. Every bit of
these funds are -- are Sheriff's Office seizure fund.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one kind of a comment, to
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make sure I -- for the public more than anything. It's not
as much that you're changing the original capital outlay;
it's just that you funded some of those purchases with other
sources of funds, correct?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct. We're not
adding new things into it -- into the mix. We're -- we're
narrowing down some. We funded some through some other means
and that, some through funding, a few more through the --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just want to make sure the
record's clear that we spend the money where we said we're
going to spend it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- we're able to do it
more efficiently than we thought. One other comment. This
is more a long-term concern. We have all new vehicles, which
is good.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: All but three.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, all but three. Even so,
that's very good -- that's a very good thing. But we're
going to need to be -- or you're going to need to be
extremely diligent when it comes to replacing these vehicles,
because we're not going to be able to afford to buy 20
vehicles, whatever you have, 30 at one time in five years.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What my -- no. What my plan
is at this point -- and Bruce and I have discussed it -- or,
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1 you know, my liaison discussed it. And that was, I'm
2 proposing that probably the first group we're going to s art
3 replacing is going to be the three that -- three currentt
4 Tahoes I have, okay? And I'm proposing that hopefully w,e
5 will be able to replace those in three years. And then ',after
6 that, I will need to go to the five or six-a-year vehicl'',e
7 replacement every year, to keep us under that $200,000 mark.
8 And that projected out --
9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought you had a plan. ~I I
10 ~ just wanted to make sure we didn't --
11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, part of the plan is --
12 I visited with him the other day about it. He will take, --
13 and the ones that are not terribly high mileage will be 1,
14 passed down to Warrants and things that aren't patrol
15 vehicles so that they can be used longer. ',
I
16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, like --
17 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And he'll replace with n,ew --
18 new ones every now and then.
19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, the original pla',n was
20 that the expenditure of 300 -- $380,000 worth of vehicles was
21 a two-year plan; i~ that correct? Is that still the pla~,n?
22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm planning on this possibly
23 even reaching out to three. ',
24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, fine. Thank yo~x.
25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we need to approve tha
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1 reallocation as -- on the expenditures as presented, correct?
2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's correct.
3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved.
4 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
5 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded to app',rove
6 the agenda item and the reallocation presented by the L
7 Sheriff. Question or discussion on the motion? ',
8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, just a second. Y~,eah.
9 You just briefly went by about transferring a vehicle ov~,er to
10 the county system to use for schools and all that kind o',f
11 thing. Is that a part of this motion? '',
12 JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, it is.
14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I hope -- and I'm all
15 for that, of course, but I hope that we are able to brinjg
16 that as a separate agenda item later on so that we can h~iave
17 guidelines on that. I wouldn't -- I wouldn't want to seje us
18 hopping in that car to run to get our groceries and -- a!nd
19 those kinds of things. I want some strict guidelines on it.
20 Much like -- as an example, like, the moneys that we use for
21 out-of-county travel, things that are related to what the
22 state requirements for us to be educated, those kinds of --
23 you know, that's -- it's just -- I think it's wise to dq
24 that. And so we'll do that later, Judge, do you think?',
25 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, we've got somewhat of a policy
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1 in place now for the existing vehicle that's utilized; i'tt's
2 drawn for use by various departments to do county business
3 in, and it will be similar to that.
4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'll bring it ba',ck.
5 JUDGE TINLEY: This is -- the thought here is ',that
6 you -- you can carry a number of people. Rather than bec
7 paying mileage to five people to go to the same conferen~,ce,
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8 you can load them up in one car. I
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9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm.
10 JUDGE TINLEY: And --
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11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Much like we do.
12 JUDGE TINLEY: Exactly. That's how we're doing it
13 now, yeah. That's the theory behind it.
14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, thank you. ,I'll
15 bring it back.
16 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Other questions or comme~,ints?
17 All in favor of the motion, signify by raising your right
18 hand.
19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
20 JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
21 (No response.)
22 JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. We'll go to
23 our -- excuse me -- 9:30 timed item, Item 5, a presentation
24 from attorney Rolando Rios regarding redistricting of ',
25 commissioners precincts and upcoming decennial census. (Good
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1 morning.
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(Commissioner Letz left the meeting.)
MR. KORBEL: Morning, Judge. Judge, my name is
George Korbel, and this is Jose Garza. We are associate's of
Mr. Rios. Mr. Rios and I partnered 10 years ago to hand'e
redistricting. We represented 50 cities and counties and
school districts and special districts, including the Holuston
Independent School District and the San Antonio Independent
School District, the City of San Antonio, Cameron County,
Hidalgo County, Gregg County out in east Texas, Red Rive'',r
County in east Texas. We represented a number of those
jurisdictions. Mr. -- Mr. Rios and Mr. Garza have been'.
lawyers involved in this sort of litigation for 30 years',,, and
I've been, unfortunately, involved for 40 years. The process
that you have to go through is, once a decade, the census
publishes the information, and you are required to divide --
redivide the county up into four commissioners precincts'', that
have roughly the equivalent population. Now, we -- the ',law
seems to say that we can go up to a 10 percent deviation., and
your current plan, we estimate, has somewhere in excess 'of a
20 percent deviation. But the biggest deviation is between
two commissioners' precincts, and so it could be -- it could
be modified fairly simply, and without making a whole lat of
changes, unless you want to make the changes in the
commissioners' precincts to make it easier for you to
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1 function as commissioners.
2 Now, our process is that we meet with each one, of
3 the Commissioners separately and get your ideas, and then,
4 based on your ideas, we will draw a plan or plans and bring
5 it back to the Court. The individuals can look at that plan
6 and they can say, well, we should change this and we should
7 change that, and we will do that for you until we've got', a
8 plan that you all are satisfied with. And then -- then ''you
9 can go ahead and adopt that plan. Your -- you can have '',one
10 public hearing, or you could have more than one public ',
11 hearing. The public hearing could be at the time that t',he
12 plan is actually adopted. We find, in our experience at'',
13 least, that if we have a plan that the commissioners area,
~i
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14 satisfied with, and that you adopt a plan that you're II
15 satisfied with, the public is pretty well satisfied with% it
16 also. We had -- for the Houston Independent School District,
17 I think we had five hearings scheduled, and a total of 1~,2
18 people showed up for five hearings, because everybody wajs
19 satisfied with the plan, and it accomplished what was -- what
20 we intended. Now, our charges are $15,000 for a county',--
21 for a county this size, for a larger county, and we have
22 $5,000 in expenses. Now, we'll either bill you by the Your,
23 or we'll capitate the charges for the county at $15,000 !,and
24 no more than $5,000 in expenses. ',
25 Now, our experience is that it would be cheaper for
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the counties to go by the hour, actually. But every county
that we dealt with and every jurisdiction we dealt with
didn't believe that, and they wanted the capitated fee 10
years ago. And our -- the way we would charge for this 'is
$5,000 at the time a letter of agreement is entered into''
between the county and us, $5,000 at the time the plan i',s
adopted, and then $5,000 after the Department of Justice'
preclears the plan. After you adopt the plan, we have t'o go
to the Department of Justice to get their approval; I'm'',sure
you know that. And we can start work on this plan probably
sometime in January or February of next year, because th'at's
when the census data will be available. And we would hope to
have this plan done and submitted and precleared by the'
Department of Justice before the -- before the end of Maly or
the beginning of June. It's a very small window you've ',got,
because the plan has to be in effect for the next electilon
year. We have a great deal of experience. None of our !,plans
have ever been objected to by the Department of Justice,' or
even subject to litigation. So, we're able to come in, set
the plans up, get them precleared and you ready to go without
any -- without any slow	downs. And	I'll	be glad	to ans~er
any questions that y'all	have about	the	-- about	the service.
JUDGE TINLEY:	Mr. Korbel,	the	-- I'm	speaking from
anecdotal reporting, but it's my impression that probably
most of the litigation that has been initiated over the ',years
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in connection with voting rights under redistricting items,
at-large, single-member, that sort of thing, has probably
been handled by or in conjunction with other lawyers by
Mr. Rios; is that not correct?
MR. KORBEL: That's correct. And Mr. Rios and',
Mr. Garza and I have all been involved in litigation, bu''t on
both sides of the issue, Judge. I~,
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. ',
MR. KORBEL: Sometimes we defend jurisdictions, and
sometimes we sue jurisdictions. I mean, I think every lawyer
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is like that. III
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MR. KORBEL: And, in fact, I was involved back, in
the middle '70's in the extension of the Voting Rights Act to
cover Texas, and the Supreme Court has cited things that!, I've
written on three separate occasions. So, we have a good
experience with the -- with the -- with the law. But ha'w
does that help you? The way that helps you is that we have
an excellent reputation with the Department of Justice, 'land
if -- and if we can draw a plan that you're satisfied with, I
think we can probably advocate for you better than anybgdy
can advocate for you. In this particular county, looking at
your data, I don't think it's probably going to be possible
to -- even if we tried, to draw a plan in which Hispanics
and/or African Americans are in a majority in one of the
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1 commissioners' precincts. Once that is over, that's out' --
2 pretty much out of the case, and so it preclears then very
3 easy at the Department of Justice. But -- but that's a great
4 question, Judge. In fact, many of -- many of our clientts are
5 -- were our clients when the litigation was filed. So --
6 JUDGE TINLEY: They became a defendant in ',
7 litigation at the hands of Mr. Rios and others, and they'.
8 subsequently signed on board for their plan, right?
9 MR. KORBEL: Yes, Judge. And I think in most',of
10 I the places where we've been able to draw districts that
11 elected Hispanics and African Americans, I think they're, much
12 better for the process, because more ideas get -- get out and
13 discussed, and there's more access to the community, ands it's
14 just good all the way around.
15 JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions for Mr. Kor~',el?
16 ~ Thank you, sir. We very much appreciate you being here.
17		MR. KORBEL:	Yes, sir, Judge.	I
18		JUDGE TINLEY:	Obviously, we're	going to be making
19 a decision on this issue in the near future, and we loop
20 forward to talking with you.
21 MR. KORBEL: Great.
22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I do have one question,
23 Judge. What preliminary work do you need to do to be able to
24 represent Kerr County, and when would you anticipate that
25 needs to begin?
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MR. KORBEL: Well, actually, we've done most o,f the
preliminary work in preparation for this appearance. We'''ve
looked at the voter registration from the -- from 2000
through today in each one of the voting precincts, just to
give us an idea what the population would look like. An,d
then the only other thing that we would need from you is',
the -- once we get the census data available, that we come
over and meet with you and get your ideas, and we'll prepare
charts and graphs like the ones that are in that package,
showing the voter registration over time and the populatl,ion
over time. And based on that, you can start with the
redistricting itself. Actually, it goes very smoothly if we
go step by step.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is the state
MR. KORBEL: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? Thank you,' sir.
MR. GARZA: I might add one thing, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right, sir.
MR. GARZA: And that's that sometimes there -
litigation that is outside the control of the Commissioners
Court impacts on the lines that you have to draw. So, ~or
instance, if there's a lawsuit on congressional districts or
state house districts, and you have to modify the plan that
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you've already adopted, as we note in the packet that we,'ve
prepared for you, we will come back in and make those changes
at no extra cost.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In other words, those --
like, a congressional district line may come through a
county.
MR. GARZA: That's right.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Might take in an entire,
county.
MR. GARZA: Exactly.
MR. KORBEL: When the judges draw plans, they ''don't
care about your voting precincts. ',
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's pretty rude, isn't
it?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They don't care about
anything.
MR. KORBEL: But you don't want to tell a judge
that it's rude. We had one county, for example, that they
drew the line through, and they messed up all four county
commissioners' precincts, and all -- literally all the ',
precincts in the county, so we had to really start from'',.
scratch. And we also are available for the entire decade, if
you are a client, to respond to questions over the phony that
your local officials might have concerning the Voting Rights
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Act and concerning your responsibilities and that sort o,f
thing. So, great.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, sir. Thank you for 'being
here today.
MR. KORBEL: Thank you. May we be excused?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes. Thank you.
MR. KORBEL: Thank you, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's go to Item 6; consider,
discuss, take appropriate action to set a public hearing, to
add a stop sign at Roundabout Lane and Sandy Lane in ~~i
Precinct 2. ~I
MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. We have -- the West fami',ly
lives at 132 Sandy Lane. Unfortunately, this property -!,- the
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location of that property is adjacent to Roundabout Lane,,,
where it intersects, and here recently there's been some
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people not stopping, except through the fences of the West
property, and the Wests have requested that the County i~
install a stop sign at Roundabout Lane and Sandy Lane. IIISo,
at this time, we ask the Court to set a public hearing t,o
install a stop sign at Roundabout Lane and Sandy Lane far
April the 12th, 2010, at 9:30 a.m.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This will be a cheaper
solution than what they really wanted, which was a guardrail
in front of their fence.
MR. ODOM: That's correct. And that situation
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makes the situation probably more dangerous than that fence
does, and we're not -- we're not acclimated to do that.'
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move approval.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To set a public hearing at
9:30 a.m. on April 12, 2010.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Question or discussion? All in favor of the
motion, signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.) ',
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carries. I
I
MR. ODOM: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you. We'l1 go to Item 7;'I
consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve B~Id
I
Proposal Policy. Ms. Pieper?
i
MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, I hope you've read over
this bid policy. This, I think, is needed to help keep down
a lot of confusion. Every different -- or every office''in
the county has got to where they're bidding different ways
and stuff. And I think if -- if you, as a Court, will
approve this bid policy, then I think in the future, that may
keep down a lawsuit as well. If somebody -- do you have a
question, Judge? You're looking at me funny. ',
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JUDGE TINLEY: I've had the opportunity to review
it. There's some things in here that I'd like to look a,t
~' further, and my note here says, "Talk to Jeannie about fhis."
There are some adjustments and some clean-ups that I'd like
to do. I agree with you; we need a single, standard bid
policy. But I think there needs to be at least a little, work
done on this one, and I'd like the opportunity to work with
you and others and the Auditor to come up with something'.
that's been pretty thoroughly staffed as we go forward.
MS. PIEPER: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: But I agree, we need a single ane.
We sure do.
MS. PIEPER: Okay. Well, we can table this aid we
can have a meeting within the next couple of weeks and ,ring
it back, then. ',
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm curious. What -- ghat
tri eyed this?
gg
MS. PIEPER: Bids coming in that the Court has'
department head, and then asked the department head to bring
them back. However, when something comes in, the clerk'',s
office has to have a copy of everything before it goes out --
I don't know how to explain it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, if you had a standard
set of rules, that would be easy to -- something to compare
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1 to and easy to get through it?
2 MS. PIEPER: If we had a set of standard rules', and
3 which I have -- have tried figuring out here, when bids come
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in, they would come in in at least duplicate. One bid would
be marked "original." One bid would be marked "duplicat!,e."
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. PIEPER: And then that way, we could keep ',one
for the record, and then one could be referred to the ',
department head for referral.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Is there -- is (,,here
times that you're not getting copies for the -- for the',--
MS. PIEPER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- long-term record?
MS. PIEPER: And we've already been through -
almost been through a lawsuit once before when there wa;
bunch of insurance documents that we didn't get back.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I should have said "arE
there times. I'm sorry, Bill.
or
+, a
.~ ~~
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's okay. Don't dog it
again. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, thanks. And
then -- and then -- see how nice we are?
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then how -- how does the
Auditor fit into something like that? I'm just curious.
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1 How --
2 JUDGE TINLEY: Well, because the Auditor regul',arly
3 works with -- with purchasing requirements.
4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
5 JUDGE TINLEY: And this falls under that baili',wick.
6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right.
7 JUDGE TINLEY: The other thing that we've had,' a
8 lot of times, when -- if it was a bid that some particular
9 department was interested in, the bids would come to tha''tt
10 department. I know we've had difficulty here. We need',to
11 provide that they come to one single place all the time,',
12 where they can be properly logged in, noted as to date aznd
13 time, and -- and I know there's -- we've had at least ore
14 issue of -- of someone presenting themselves to submit a bid,
15 and there wasn't anybody available on that particular bird
16 process to receive it. Well, we got the bid, but we weren't
17 sure exactly what time it was received.
18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
19		JUDGE TINLEY: Fortunately, we did know the	date,
20	and we	knew it was okay.		
21		MS. PIEPER: At times an	advertisement says	"sealed
22	bids,"	and people will bring in a	stack of documents	to ''our
23	office	to be filed. Well, they're	not sealed, so we'	ve ',been
24	handing	them big envelopes. Well,	I don't think that	that's
25	right e	ither. So, I mean, sealed	bid means sealed bi	d.',, You
~~
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1 bring it in -- you know, I mean, so I think if we had a',set
2 of policies, if somebody brings me in a stack of papers and
3 says, "Here's my bid," I say, "That doesn't meet our stattute;
4 it's not sealed," and let them go back and --
5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You probably have that'
6 authority now. But, okay, thank you. ',
7 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, Ms. Pieper.
8 MS. PIEPER: You're welcome.
9 JUDGE TINLEY: Item 8; consider, discuss, take'
10 appropriate action to approve the Maintenance Department to
11 build a 10-foot by 10-foot enclosed office space for chief
12 deputy in the County Clerk's office.
13 MS. PIEPER: Gentlemen, this is kind of
14 self-explanatory. I want to build just a little office ',s pace
15 for my chief deputy. That way, when she is counseling wlith
16 employees or general public or something, she has a private
~I
17 place to do it at. ~I,
18	COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:	Where would	it be located?
19	MS. PIEPER: Within my	office, kind	of like right
20	-- I talked with the Maintenance	Department ab	out it, ar~d Tim
21	said it wasn't going to be a pro	blem to do it	kind of right
22	in front of where my office is,	and start from	the back '',wall
23	and -- and come out 10 feet.		
24	COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS:	It would not	be in the
25	position that Ms. Thompson occup	ies right now?	It'll b~ a
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I different location?
MS. PIEPER: It'll be right -- 10 feet from where
her desk is now, over to the wall.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Some of those file cabinets along
the south wall will be relocated. It could go back along the
south wall.
MS. PIEPER: There's the electrical there, anc~' then
we have	-- there's actually two	things of electrical there,
so they'	re not going to	have to	be relocated. Phones won't
have to	be relocated.	It's goin	g to be right in a good ''area
to where	we don't have	to worry	about those. ',
	COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS:	Move approval.
	COMMISSIONER	OEHLER:	Second.
	JUDGE TINLEY:	Motion	made and seconded for
approval. Question or discussion?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much money? I mean, has
the Maintenance guy -- has he signed off on this? He halsn't
said anything to me about it.
MS. PIEPER: He quoted somewhere around $1,OOa.
But I'm thinking if we use safety glass -- because I warYt her
office to be glassed like mine is so she can still be ak~le to
see the deputies and stuff. I'm thinking no more than 2,000.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And where is that money?
MS. PIEPER: Within our budget. We'll take i~ out
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is that?
MS. PIEPER: Office supplies.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you -- you built your
budget $2,000 more than --
MS. PIEPER: No. I can -- I can take bits and
pieces from here and put it in there and then do it. So --
and then, when Maintenance and I were talking about it, 'you
know, at that point I didn't know how much it would cost, and
he said that he had a little bit of money too, in case we
needed it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Another slush fund. Al'l
right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Got to write on both slides
of the paper.
', COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: You want to go down there and ~ide
herd on that, Buster?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, just thought I'd ask.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Oh, come on, now. Jump'',,in
there. ',
JUDGE TINLEY: Further question or discussion',on
the motion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
~ your right hand.
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(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion carries. Okay, Commissioner,
here's your opportunity. Item 9; consider, discuss, tak',e
appropriate action to appoint John Carlson as a member of the
Kerr County Child Services Board. ',
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: John Carlson is a local'
attorney, and he's applied to be a member of the Child
Services Board. He's a graduate of Tivy High School,
University of Texas in Austin for both his bachelor's and law
degrees. He's currently in private law practice here in
Kerrville. He's a member of the Young Men's Business League,
Kerrville Under 40, Kerr County Bar Association, Hill Country
Estate Planning Council, and the Kerrville Public School'
Foundation. He brings expertise in financial management,
planning, and evaluation to our board. Most importantly, his
family has cared for and adopted a child through Caring',
Family Network and Child Protective Services. He's married
to Nicki, and the father of three children. And one thing
that's not on here that I think is super, super important is
he's a native of Kerrville, Tivy boy, and he has come Name to
serve his community and pay it back for the things -- far
growing up here, and I appreciate that. He's a -- I move
that we approve John Carlson's membership.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
i approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? A'11 in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand..
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
'~ (No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion carried. Item 10;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve us,e of
Flat Rock Lake Park on June 12th, 2010, American Legion, Elks
Club, and VFW, for purposes of conducting carnival and flag
retirement ceremony. Commissioner Williams?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, sir. Pretttt,y
straightforward. American Legion, the Elks, and VFW are'
getting together for a carnival of some sort and a flag!,
retirement ceremony, and the date is June 12, 2010. I Iove
approval.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. ',
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
approval of the agenda item. Question or discussion? loll in
favor of the motion, signify by raising your right hand.
', (The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Item 1Z;
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consider, discuss, take appropriate action to approve
contract with Kendnel Kasper construction for the new La'w
Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation building and related
improvements. We had a preconstruction meeting last weel,k on
this project. Mr. Odom and some of his people were there,
and all of the other principals dealing with the contrac',tor,
the architect and so forth. At that time, there was a draft
form of contract presented, and I submitted that to the,
County Attorney. The -- the bid specifications required' that
the contract be on A.I.A. form as to the contract and general
conditions. It is on that format. It's very lengthy, pretty
detailed. There were a couple of particular issues related
Ms. Bailey. And then, of course, any -- any changes to ',t he
contract because of our being a local government, she wquld
have to make the appropriate modifications to it. She hasn't
had much time to this point, but, Ms. Bailey, where arel,you
in connection with that contract?
MS. BAILEY: I did have an opportunity to review
both the contract and the addendum. I'm satisfied that ',they
do meet our requirements. There -- the usual issues of 'not
having the County agree to indemnify anybody are satisfied in
there, because it says "to the extent allowed by law." '...Those
A.I.A. contracts are pretty well thought out and pretty ',well
vetted by lawyers much more skilled in contract law than
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myself. I don't see any difficulty with it at all.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Subject to your final
tweaking of the contract, you think it's appropriate for the
Court to approve it, then, today?
I~ MS. BAILEY: Yes.
I
i
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd move approval of t',he
contract with Kendnel Kasper -- is that a correct spelli''nng of
Kendnel, the way it's listed on the agenda, K-e-n-d-n-e-'l?
JUDGE TINLEY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Kendnel Kasper Construction
for the new Law Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation buildi''ng,
and authorize County Judge to sign same.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded. Question
or discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by ',
raising your right hand. ',
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.) ',
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let's coo to
Item 13; consider, discuss, take appropriate action to ',
approve contract with Freese-Nichols, Inc., for engineering
services related to the repairs of Flat Rock and Ingram Dams.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: This is in relation tq the
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1 repairs that are necessary for Flat Rock and Ingram Dams'', and
2 this is the engineering that will be necessary prior to 'going
3 to bid for the work to actually be done. I believe the
4 amount is about $12,000. The County Attorney has reviewed
5 the contract, made one suggested change, which is ',
6 incorporated in the final draft that the Judge can sign.' And
7 I think that's kind of it. I would move approval of than
8 contract.
9 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second. '~
10 JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded for
11 approval of the agenda item. Further question or discus'~,sion
12 on the motion?
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13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, a request. You s',aid
14 "about" 12,000.
15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS
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12, 000.
~I'~
I think -- yeah, it is
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we say for sure?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not to exceed?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: N.T.E., not to exceed.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Thank you.',
JUDGE TINLEY: Now, that's a fee. Any -- any',
out-of-pocket expenses, of course, would be in addition.'
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. ',
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JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Any other questions or
discussion? All in favor of the motion, signify by raising
your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Let me ',
inquire, Ms. Hyde, in connection with the next three ite',ms,
are those items exclusively executive session items, or ',t hey
can be handled in the clear as policy matters?
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. Let me call Item 14;
consider, discuss, take appropriate action on personnel',issue
regarding prescription plan modifications pertaining to~,,the
Kerr Count medical rescri tion lan. ~,
Y P P p
(Commissioner Baldwin left the room.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde? And I note that Mr.I~Carey
Malek, who represents our third-party administrator, is !here
also.
MS. HYDE: Gentlemen, I gave you a handout at the
end of last court. Do y'all need copies of it again?
Probably? I
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. You didn't expect
it to last till this meeting, did you? ',
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1 MS. HYDE: We discussed the prescription plan,'' and
2 we did a modification on the prescription plan regarding'
3 seven -- seven scrips that we put into an alternative tier.
4 In December, once we put in the alternative tier, I was happy
5 to note that in January, it showed that our December usage of
6 those drugs had reduced. However, we got January's, and we
7 pretty much are at a net zero right now, and one of the
8 reasons being is this right here. And this is only shoring
9 for Nexium, but they are doing coupons throughout
10 prescription plans. That's one of the strategies this year.
11 Which means that an employee can go to a physician or to a
12 pharmacy, and when they get in there, if they see that that
13 is going to be a $55 copay or a $65 copay, they can receive
14 this coupon, which reduces their copay to $5. But it do'esn't
15	reduce	our plan cost.	So, it's	another methodology	for''~,the
16	large	pharmaceutical	companies	to insure that they'	re ga',ing
17 ~ to make their profit. It's not a good thing; it's not al bad
18 ~ thing for them. It's just business. But just like they have
19 ~ business, we have also business. If we do not find ways to
20 ~ reduce these costs, gentlemen, we will not make our plan.
21	It's that	simple.	We had	14 new people	go on Nexium in 'the
22	month of	January.	Several	of them got	little coupons. ',The
23	good news	is that	they're	talking to me	and my folks about
24	it, so we	found out that t	hat's what's	happening. And c~e're
25	bringing	it back.	What we	'd like to do	is discuss going to
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modify the plan one more time and look at step therapy., We
discussed it during the first -- the first round of plan
modifications, and we said, well, let's try this first, .just
increase the cost and see what happens. Well, now we're.
seeing what happens, so now we're going to request thatwe go
to a step therapy on these seven drugs. ',
(Commissioner Baldwin returned.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why'd y'all stop talking
when I came in?
MS. HYDE: 'Cause you're important.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Gives us a chance to sit down
so you can participate.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. ',
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess my comment on this is
the fact that, you know, we're trying to do the best we~lcan
for our employees. We're trying to be fair and, you kndlw,
trying to pick up as much cost as possible. But, you know,
the other -- there's an alternative to all of this. I mean,
we could -- we can take away some benefits.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If it comes to that. I'mean,
I understand that these pharmaceuticals are just basically,
you know, giving coupons to where there's no copay almost at
all, and that's all fine and good, but at the same time,' we
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thing. I just think the employees and everybody needs t'o
understand that there's a limit to what -- you know, what the
County can pay in benefits from prescription drugs, and ',t hey
need to try their best to cooperate, or it could be a loss
for them -- all of us, not just the few. ',
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, Commissioner, the -- one''of
the alternatives would be for us to modify our plan to s~~ay
that those seven are not covered, period. I~~'
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's what I'm saying.'',
JUDGE TINLEY: That's pretty draconian, but th;e
bottom line, when the -- when the pharmaceutical companies
i
that get the big end of the money in these things, they'',
subsidize the copay, which -- which leaves us to pick up the
big end of the tab. '',
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly.
JUDGE TINLEY: That's where we really get hit.' You
know, I'm -- one issue that I see from an employee standpoint
is, is this an income item to them, where they're -- if
they're getting the benefit of a $25 or a $50 coupon to apply
against their copay under the plan, do they have to declare
that as income? I don't know. I --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's an interesting
25 ~ question.
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MS. HYDE: There is a -- there is a concern you and
I had discussed as well regarding I.R.S., and that is that
for those people that do deductions, and they have medical
deductions, people will need to be careful if they are using
this for any of their services, because that is -- thatlis
not the intent bf the I.R.S. reg. So, if you use deductions
and you make the 7.6 or 6.8 percent on the A.G.I., and you're
using your medical and you're using an H.R.A. card and you're
using coupons, people need to be very careful when they';re
filling out their taxes.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess -- go ahead.
JUDGE TINLEY: What you're suggesting is probably
the least onerous alternative that we have available tows.
MS. HYDE: To start with.
JUDGE TINLEY: By requiring them to go through a
process whereby an effort is made to see if they can use a
therapeutic equivalent. ',
MS. HYDE: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Or a generic-type drug.
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir. ',
JUDGE TINLEY: And only in the event that does not
work, there are inappropriate side effects, don't get the
appropriate medical results, do we then end up with thelbrand
name. There's a middle ground here. You know, from that
versus just taking them off altogether. One would do --~ one
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'60
would be to put it on a percentage, 50 percent copay, and
I'll guarantee you that will get somebody's attention. '.You
take a $600-a-month prescription. People don't realize what
we're paying out of our self-funded portion --
MS. HYDE: Right.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- for these prescription drugs',.
It's a phenomenal amount. ',
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But, Judge, as I said last
time, a lot of times this isn't the employee's doing. Ttt's
the doctor that is saying they would rather have this than
the generic, and I don't think you can fault the employee for
that. And I don't think the employee should get penalized
for that. ''
JUDGE TINLEY: I'll give you the same response I
gave you last time, Sheriff. If we have an employee tha',t's
putting an excessive share of the burden on the County's plan
because of the requirements of that particular employee,', that
articular em loyee should be paying an additional portion of
P p
what that extra cost is. I don't think the rest of the
employees of this county should be shouldering that burden.
I can assure you that if, for example, an employee is told,
"We're on a 50 percent copay," and the doctor says, "I want
to put you on Nexium," and that employee knows that instead
of paying $50, that employee's going to be paying $300, ''that
employee's going to say, "Doc, you know, I'm not sure I',can
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handle my end of this. Isn't there something else we can
try?" I can assure you, that will happen.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree, but that's also why
we're on a group deal. Now, the only issue I have -- that
I'm really starting to have more and more personally, is we
went out for bids for all this new health care and new, you
know, prescription stuff. After the bids are awarded, row
we're coming back two or three different times with what I
would call major changes to what that bid requirement was and
changing our plans. And I'm not sure where that stands,''
either.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't think that was in the
bid requirement. This is a benefit that --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I said we're
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're changing after those
bids were awarded.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Sometimes changes have to be
made when there's abuse of the -- of what we're trying to do,
and benefits.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't agree, Sheriff'. I
think it's more a policy matter on our part than it is a
distinction in the bid process. We can change the polity any
time we want to change the policy if we think it's in the
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I agree. The only issue I
have is it was changed, or is being changed within the Hirst
month of that bid being awarded. That's when all this
And if it's an abuse issue, like Commissioner'
Oehler says, that abuse issue was discovered way before tthe
bid process was done, and I think a lot of this ought to, wait
until the bid process of next year, instead of changing 'what
we've done right after bids were awarded. I don't think, it
looks right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff, let me ask you a question.
If you went back to your employees today and said, "Because
of this cost overrun on our prescription drug benefit plan,
you guys need to get ready to be putting in 75 bucks a p,ay
period into the plan next year," what kind of reaction are
you going to get?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't think you clan
even realistically suggest I do that, Judge. I think wel,'ve
got to go --
JUDGE TINLEY: I think I can, Sheriff.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think we've got to go
through the bid process and do what this County's always
done. I see -- I just -- the way this one's been done this
year I don't think is fair to the employees. And that's' just
my two cents and my personal opinion.
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JUDGE TINLEY: It's not going to be, quote, fair,
unquote, to those employees that are putting an additional
burden on our. plan that the other employees are not placing
there, thereby putting the other employees in a position
where they're going to have to figure out what they're going
to have to do to share that cost. And it's not fair to 't he
vast majority of the employees to have to pick up that extra
cost.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Those --
JUDGE TINLEY: We have the ability to make
modifications to our plan, and that's where we're coming, from
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Those statistics that you,'re
talking about were well-known last year, prior to this b'id
process, prior to those companies that bid on it bidding, what
they bid. And now it's all getting changed in the middle of
the deal, after it was all awarded. And all those stati~,stics
were known prior to that. I don't -- I don't think we -,-
what we're doing in a lot of this is, we're -- I just -- I
don't agree with the way this is occurring.
JUDGE TINLEY: You're entitled to disagree.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. ',
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hargis?
MS. HARGIS: Can she explain what she means by
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SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Therapy.
MS. HARGIS: -- step therapy? I'm not familiar
MR. MALEK: Sure, I can handle that one. Step,
therapy is just an alternative to what we're doing now, '',which
is you go to the physician's office, they write you a
prescription,	and	you	go get it	filled at	the --	at	the'.
pharmacist.	In a	step	therapy	situation,	if one	of	the ',these
seven drugs appears on the prescription, it goes to the'
pharmacist, then the pharmacist puts a hold on it until'tthe
physician then counsels back with the employee to say that
there are alternatives in this class of drugs that you can
take -- and we'll use Nexium as the example -- that you ',c an
take instead of Nexium, and that you will then be asked 'to
take, or to try a different drug if you've already tried that
drug. Then there's -- generally, there's three steps on most
of these; sometimes it's two. Let's say Nexium. The fi'Irst
step would have been Prevacid, which is an over-the-counter
drug. The second step might be Prilosec. So, that -- those
are the steps that you would take in order to get to the
Nexium. It doesn't mean that you can't get Nexium. It~'~Imeans
that you're required to go through Step 1, which is, you
know, an alternative drug, or Step 2, and then -- then get to
the point to where, if Nexium is the only alternative, then
you would be allowed to then --
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MS. HARGIS: Do you have to take the drugs in 't his
step? The alternative drugs, before you can go back to 't he
original drug?
MR. MALEK: It depends on where you are in the'..
process. Now, there will be some people that might alre',ady
be on a drug, where some of those steps won't be necessary.
You might be able to skip Step 1 and go straight to Step, 2.
It just depends on what your physician and the pharmacy ',come
-- the pharmacy vendor will work out. Generally, they'r,e
pretty, you know, generous when it comes to that part of it.
MS. HARGIS: Okay. I -- I hate to take a step, back
on this, having gone through a major deal. What are the'
seven drugs, besides Nexium? Nexium is being misused. ',
MS. HYDE: Aciphex, Celebrex, Crestor, Kapidex,,
Lipitor, Nexium, Vytorin.
MS. HARGIS: Okay. I hate to use myself, but',I'm
going to. My husband had a heart attack; everybody's very
much aware of that. He was taking the alternatives for'
Lipitor, and it didn't work. Now he's had a major heart
attack. I'm going to be real concerned -- I don't mind
paying it, but I don't want him to have to go through these
steps and have another heart attack, which would cost you
more money than him taking Lipitor. So, what do we do?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's exactly the point.'...
MR. MALEK: In a step situation, that more than
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likely would not be affected, okay? Most of these are going
to -- excuse me. Most of these will come into play for 'renew
prescriptions, but it's not going to exclude an existing'.
prescription from being part of it. A lot of times it'ss
going to depend on the actual drug that's being taken, o'kkay?
If there's an existing situation where there's, you know„
medical history, that's what makes step therapy really
effective, is that it gives the ability to be flexible i'n
this scenario, versus what we talked about going to, was',
excluding some of these drugs. This gives us a lot more',
flexibility. What it gives us is this ability to fight 'the
coupon deal that's going on right now. We're trying to 'stay
one step ahead of the drug card company in this scenario, is
really why this step therapy's coming in. It's the leas''tt
invasive of the options that we're looking at.
MS. HARGIS: Well -- well, but my big concern',is --
and I just had this, because I just had pneumonia a couple
weeks ago. I go to a pharmacy; I couldn't get it filled --
it's a different deal -- and I'm waiting for the drug, a'nd
end up waiting three or four hours, and couldn't go home
because I couldn't get the drug. So, if somebody goes to the
pharmacy and doesn't know, and they get up there with Nexium,
then they're told to go back to the doctor, you know, haw
much time is going to elapse while they're doing -- playing
this type of a game? Because that can be very frustrating,
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67
too. It's not that this employee doesn't necessarily want to
do it, and I'm not saying we don't need to do the plan. But
in this town, we have few choices about where you. go to 'get
your prescription, and if we have to go back and forth t'o the
doctor, that would be my only -- you know.
MS. HYDE: But when you went to the pharmacy -,-
since you opened this up, and you're talking about your
prescription.-- it wasn't one of the seven. You were wa',iting
on something else for a totally different scenario.
MS. HARGIS: I understand that, but I don't --
MS. HYDE: I want to make sure that's in the
record. It has nothing to do with these seven.
MS. HARGIS: No, it doesn't. What I'm saying is, I
don't want people to get very frustrated when they take 'a
prescription and they don't get it filled, and then they're
told they have to go back. So, our people are going to 'have
to be made very clear that if you're given one of these,
prescriptions and you go to the pharmacy, it's very possible
that they won't fill it. They need to explain that to their
doctors straight up when they go in, so they're all going to
have to be made aware of these situations.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why don't y'all answer ',her
question and quit trying to cover your butt so much? Answer
her question.
MS. HYDE: What's the question?
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68
I the doctor?
MS. HYDE: If that's the first time that they
received the scrip, and they didn't do anything on the front
end, yes .
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But that should be a
one-time situation only.
MS. HYDE: That's right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: First time. Shouldn't be a
repeat situation.
MS. HYDE: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Renewal.
JUDGE TINLEY: Sheriff?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. Along those same lines,
if you're already on one of those, okay, such as some of the
cholesterol -- the Lipitor, the Crestor, and that's -- your
doctor wants you on the name-brand, you're taking that. Now
you go to a pharmacy; you can't get those filled very far in
advance. They don't allow those to be filled very far in
advance. You're about down to your last pill before the
pharmacist will refill that on that prescription, okay? So
-- and you're not supposed to have a break in days if you're
taking that medicine. So now, if you're going to go to a
pharmacy, the pharmacy's going to say, "No, we're not going
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to fill it until you go back to your doctor." In this town,
it could be a week before you get an appointment back with
your doctor.. You can't have that week off without that
medication. You're required to have it at certain times, or
else it does lower whatever it does. I'm not a doctor, but
they say you cannot have a break in that medication. And I
don't -- I hope this doesn't cause a break in that
medication.
MR. MALEK: It won't. What generally happens in
those scenarios is, you know, it will allow you to fill --
it's pretty flexible. It allows you to fill a couple of days
if you're -- if you're missing them, and if that gets worked
out. Now, you don't have to go back to the doctor and have
another appointment. This is all done over the phone between
the drug card company and your physician. You generally
don't have to get involved in it as a patient. Generally,
they'll agree to something, and then you'll just go pick it
up from the pharmacist.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The drug card company or
the pharmacist?
MR. MALEK: The drug card vendor.
MS. HYDE: Like Script Care.
MR. MALEK: In this case, Script Care would be the
one that would work it out between the doctor, and as this
starts to become a policy and the physicians understand, this
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pretty much becomes a nonissue after about a month or so,
because they get used to what's supposed to happen, and then
the doctors are -- will adjust their practices accordingly.
It generally doesn't become a big deal to the physicians,
because this is a very common practice amongst all the major
-- you know, the Blue Crosses, the Aetnas of the world also
use these step therapies in all their fully insured plans,
and so this won't be much of an adjustment to them. What's
thrown people off is this card. This card has really messed
people up, and it's made it -- made these brand-name drugs
more available to them at a lower cost to themselves. And
so, as a patient, you know, you don't demand that you get a
lower-cost drug.
MS. HYDE: And a lot of the employees that have
talked about the coupons, they thought because they got this
coupon that reduced their copay by $50, they felt like that
meant the drug was reduced as well. So, it's not that
they're trying to supersede or convolute or anything like
that. A lot of it has to do with, what do they understand?
So, the good news is, depending on what y'all decide, we have
mandatory meetings Tuesday and Wednesday which we can hand
these out one more time and tell folks, you know, "Here's
what we're doing, and here's why we're doing it." So, that
way, everyone can get it and we can get sign-offs on it
saying that they understand it.
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71
JUDGE TINLEY: Yes?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The one thing I'd like to see,
or that I'd ask this Court to do, 'cause we're hearing from
our third-party provider and our H.R. person, and we're
hearing one side, and then you've got, like, Jeannie or
myself trying to explain what our doctors -- is there anyy way
this Court would table this and get one of the doctors
throughout the community -- I don't care who -- that could
actually give the other side of this, so that the Court would
get the whole picture on what the best action the Court takes
for our employees, as far as health for the employees? I
agree with what you're saying; it's a benefit. But this
county has always done real well with the employees, and this
Court's always listened to both sides of every argument. And
I would just ask that we listen to both sides of this
16 argument.
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JUDGE TINLEY: How do you propose we get a doctor
in here? Subpoena him?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I would imagine that there
is one that would volunteer to come in here and explain the
other side to this deal.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you have one in mind?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If you want me to go try and
find one, I'll find one. I don't think you want -- because
I'm in one of these seven, okay? Medications. And because
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72
knowing what the -- having family members that's had a lot of
problems with these type of medications, I'm not -- I would
not be a neutral party in this, Judge. And I think that the
Court should see if we could at least get somebody to let us
hear the other side of the story.
JUDGE TINLEY: You know, the more I hear about this
step therapy and all this other stuff, and -- and the
methodology that's been used by the -- the drug companies to
try and get their leg up so that the patient doesn't suffer,
it occurs to me that maybe the better solution would be to
just adjust the copay on these and put them, say, at
50 percent copay. And if the drug companies want to step up
and say we'll swallow it for half --
MS. HYDE: Did you mean copay? You're talking
total cost of prescription?
JUDGE TINLEY: Total cost. Fifty percent copay
would be 50 percent of the total cost.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: "We'll swallow it"? Is
that -- that's a pun. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, play on words.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just want to make sure
where we are in this thing, you know.
JUDGE TINLEY: You know, if the drug companies. say
we're willing to sell this medication effectively at half
price, or near half price. I don't think they're going 'to do
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that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which they're not going to
do .
JUDGE TINLEY: I don't think they're going to do
it. They're willing to -- to eat 50 bucks so that they can
make 500.
MR. MALEK: This is just --
JUDGE TINLEY: Will they eat 250? I don't think
i so.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Probably not.
MR. MALEK: I think people are getting this
confused. It's really not going to affect the patient. The
patient's care and patient outcomes are probably going to
stay about the same.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'd like to hear that from a
I doctor.
MR. MALEK: What this is going to affect is the
drug card company's ability to market it to the physicians
and make it so readily available that, you know, they're
affecting their bottom line. And, really, the physicians
don't generally have a problem with this, 'cause they're used
to it. They're used to it with every fully insured program
that's out there right now. And so, again, the patients are
not going to suffer in this scenario. What we're trying to
do is keep the drug card companies from getting into the
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74
county's pocket.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then let a doctor tell us
that, not a provider.
JUDGE TINLEY: Tell you what, Sheriff. If you can
bring one in here at quarter till 2:00, we'll listen to him.
We'll table this matter until then.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's a little short
notice, Judge, and I think you know that. Trying to get a
doctor to give up that two weeks notice, trying to talk to
one to get them to come up, and table it till the next agenda
I think would be wiser and fairer to the employees. That's
what I have to say.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask a question. All
seven of these drugs have alternatives or generics?
MR. MALEK: Yes, sir.
MS. HYDE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What -- Ms. Hyde, what
steps have we taken to help our employees understand how to
effect a change in their prescriptions from whatever -- the
Nexium to a generic? What steps have we taken? Because I
don't -- there is confusion there. And my point is that
whatever we need to do to help them understand how to do
this, and when to do this, so that they don't -- don't end up
in front of the pharmacist with a whole bunch of confusing
things that maybe they don't understand the process, how can
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we simplify that so that they do take the steps necessary to
at least try to switch from a name-brand to a generic?
MS. HYDE: Well, for the last three years during
open enrollment, I've talked about Nexium, number one. I've
used that as the pill of choice. And each time I've seen
y'all in there, y'all are nodding your head. But I can also
tell you that, going back, there are certain times when we go
out, we sends out e-mails. Whenever we get the chance, we
talk about it with the employees. We talk about it
one-on-one. I don't have permission, but I can tell you here
in the last month, we've talked with six people about this to
make sure that they understood before they did their new
year, got their new scrips, and, "What do I need to do
if...?" What do I need to do to make sure that the doctors
understand? Well, the first one came back with the coupon.
I mean, it's trying to stay with the education of the
employees as well as making sure that people understand,'... this
is not to hurt anyone. Yes, we can turn around and we clan
say we're not going to do these seven drugs. That's the
simplest thing. That's the simplest thing in the world. We
just say, "Nope, we're not going to cover those drugs." That
is not unusual. That's not farfetched. But if we can get
people to understand, through education, through talking with
them, through showing them, through giving them things for
them to read which they don't file 13, then, you know, I can
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tell you I feel like we've done a pretty darn good job of
trying to talk to people one-on-one when it comes to their
scrips, when it comes to things like this. Or working with
them, when they see that it's going to cost them out the
wazoo. We talked about it when we were doing this. So,
although I -- I just respectfully disagree with the Sheriff,
we talked about this during -- during budget; we talked about
it during the RFP's. We talked about it when we brought them
in here. We talked about it during the bid process, that we
were going to have to monitor this closely this year. We
', only have so much money.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, you're preaching to
the choir here. We understand that. And all those
discussions that you relate are discussions that took place
here in the courtroom. My point is, the discussion needs to
take place with the employees so they have a clear, more
concise understanding of what they have to do, or how to do
what we'd like for them to do.
MS. HYDE: Ms. Pieper, you told me I could use you.
Can you -- can you maybe help answer Commissioner Williams'
question? Do you feel like you got enough information to try
to make an informed decision and try to work with your
~ physician?
MS. PIEPER: Yes, let me -- let me explain --
where's the little paper at? This little thing that she
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keeps waving around, it's got my name on it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does it really?
MS. PIEPER: It does. So, last week, I go to the
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. PIEPER: So then his little P.A. comes out with
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
MS. PIEPER: And explains to me that, oh, you can
!, get 50 bucks off. I'm going, "Okay. That'll work, then."
So I go to the pharmacy, and it only costs me $5, and I think
something's not right, so I come back and tell Eva. And she
says, "Uh-huh, that's the new thing that the drug companies
are doing now. You only pay $5, but now they're fixing to
bill Kerr County for the remainder." I'm like, "Oh." Light
bulb just went off.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We understand that.
MS. PIEPER: So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's not the coupon I'm --
I'm driving at, because that's pretty obvious. They're
dangling a carrot on a stick in front of -- in front of the
employees, saying, "Look at the savings we're going to give
you." That's great. That's fine, and most people will take
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it. But the point is, we have to educate them that there is
a process they have to go through -- they must go through to
-- to make whatever changes their doctor will agree for them
to make from brands to generics. How do we do that? That's
MS. PIEPER: Well, now that I know about this card
I and that they're trying to come back with Kerr County on
there, I'm back talking with my doctor and the pharmacist.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or maybe a new doctor.
MS. PIEPER: Well, this one is a new doctor; that's
why we're having to go through this all over this again.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you something,
Ms. Hyde. I know the HIPAA laws are touchy. Is there some
way that we can require our employees to take some kind of
little form along to sit down and go over this with the
doctor that -- that Kerr County Commissioners Court, or
particularly the Judge -- not us; we're too nice, but the
Judge is requiring that -- that they're -- that you're going
through this process, and get -- try to get, or maybe ask the
doctor to sign off on it, that he has been visited with about
it? I mean, can you do something like that?
MS. HYDE: We can request that employees do it. I
mean, we can make it part of the policy, if that's what you
guys want to do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or would it be better to
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have the come-to-Jesus thing with them? Or -- I mean,
there's got to be a way to do this. This education issue, I
think, is where I'm going.
MS. HYDE: I think that -- y'all know I'm pretty
tactless most of the time. And I'm trying very hard.
Unfortunately, because we don't have buy-in from elected and
appointed officials to this issue, it's not being sold to the
employees. It's not being sold to them in a manner that they
can understand. They hear the H.R. rep over here telling
them one thing. Commissioners Court is saying, got to save
money. And it becomes an issue, not because of education.
They're not hearing us because they think we don't give a
crap, when that's as far from the truth as possible. So,
maybe the come-to-Jesus -- I don't know. My deal is, I don't
think they truly understand how much people care about them,
because my gut tells me I ought to do what we used to do in
the public sector. You take all of the drugs that cost you
and you whack them. You just whack them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Whack?
MS. HYDE: Whack them. They're not covered.
Because then what happens -- when you hit somebody's
pocketbook, what happens? They listen. And that's
unfortunate, but we're adults. You know, and I'm trying to
maintain that adult. These aren't children. Are we doctors?
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No, we're not. Is it medical necessity for some folks to
take these prescriptions? Absolutely. But is it for 100
percent of your employees? No, sir, it's not.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let met follow up on
Commissioner Baldwin's question at this point. And I may be
-- I may be treading on some real thin water here in terms of
HIPAA and so forth, and if I am, County Attorney, you or
somebody else say, "Slow down, big guy." But --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you the big guy in this?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you are. You're bigger
I than I am.
MS. HYDE: He's the big guy.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would it be possible --
without violating HIPAA or any other type of federal
regulations with respect to privacy and medical issues, would
it be possible at -- at open enrollment time, for it to be a
requirement of the County, as a policy, a requirement that in
order to participate in next year's prescription program, you
have to have, prior to open enrollment, conferred with your
doctor on every single drug you take to determine whether or
not there is a generic, or whether they will allow you to
take a generic, and you bring that proof to open enrollment
for participation in the next one?
MR. MALEK: No.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No what?
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MR.	MALEK:	No, you	can't do that.
MS.	HYDE:	We can't	do --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Violation of federal law?
MR. MALEK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. MALEK: Let me add a couple things. I think
this maybe answers your question. One of the things that
we're going to do -- you mentioned this -- is the drug card
company, in this case Script Care, the vendor, has mailers
that they're going to -- that we can use, and we have some
payroll stuffers. Those are going to be some things that
we're going to do to introduce the step therapy, should it
get approved. So, the first thing that happens is anybody
who's getting one of these drugs is going to get a mailer;
it's going to explain how the new process is going to work,
'cause they have all the addresses. They know who's all
taking all the drugs. That keeps us out of the process of,
you know, any HIPAA violations. The second thing is, we do
know that the doctors have an organization here, and it's
called a P.H.O. It's all related to the hospital. And we
did mention this to them when we met with them recently, and
we can now have access to them, and we'll try to give them
information about our plan that will help them then
distribute this down the line to their member doctors. So,
we do have some access to be able to basically advertise
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this, that we're making this change. And so those would be
the ways that we're going to try to, you know, notify
employees and the physician community, which we think would
have a big impact.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I would say this would
be the last-ditch effort before they get whacked. That's my
-- that's my opinion. Now, if -- the Judge is right. You
know, if people start having to pay for their own scrips,
they're going to be more careful about what they take, and
they're going to be more inquisitive about generics. I'd be
one of them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And -- but, you know, I think
that at some point, the employees that -- that don't
intentionally abuse the system, the doctors help us with it
by their prescriptions. And -- but if the employees are.
aware, it's like what you're saying, Bill. You know, what's
out there? And is there a generic for what you've been
prescribed?
MS. PIEPER: I think if we had a list of those
seven drugs, and then a list of the alternatives, or whatever
they're called, that would help. Because, like, when I went
to the doctor, and the doctor says Nexium, and I'm going --
you know, up there having a cow, and he says, "Well, so what
generic do you want?" I'm going, "Well, I don't know what
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they're called." So then he has to take time to go through
his computer to find -- you know, so I think it would just --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Just gets crazier by the
I minute.
MS. PIEPER: It does. He gets upset 'cause he has
to find a generic.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What he just said, why don't
-- because we've only changed it for what, two months now so
far, three months that it's been changed, and what he just
said about the physicians having their group here and being
able to put stuff and get access to them, why doesn't that
avenue go first with the physicians, instead of changing our
plan again, and see if the physicians get a little bit more
education and let them make the choice.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We just keep paying more. We
keep paying this exorbitant cost for people that don't know
that it's costing the county a huge amount of money.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you made a --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: .They'll lose it if we keep
doing it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But you made a change two
months ago; we haven't had time. She just saw one report and
one more is it. Give the -- the chance for the physicians to
get educated, and let the physicians talk to their patients
and give us the forms we'll carry to them.
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Physicians are already
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't have a problem.
If it needs to be done, instead of an insurance telling us
what -- let our physicians be part of this.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can say this; that I
have a -- my doctor's appointment tomorrow morning, early.
And I'm -- and it's not going to be a pleasant thing anyway,
'cause I haven't lost a lot of weight like he wanted me to,
so it's going to be my annual knock-down-drag-out with him.
But one of the things I'm going to do is I'm going to take
this question to him, and I want to know. And if he -- if he
-- if his staff offers me one of those silly little cards,
which I think is totally, completely wrong -- you know, it's
a drug company. I don't know; I just don't like it kind of
stuff. And then I'm going to have my visit with my doctor
about this issue. Then I'll be ready to come back and vote
on it. But I'm not going to vote until I have that talk with
him. I want to hear both sides. And, no, I will not ask him
to come in here.
JUDGE TINLEY: Just -- Commissioner, instead of
being on defense, as you anticipated being, you can be on the
offense when you go in there --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. I'm
going to come in there and start screaming at him right off
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Is that the way to counter
the non-weight loss deal?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we're going to try.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Best defense is a good
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I don't know. I just think
that the employees need to be aware. I don't think they're
doing this intentionally. It's the drug companies that are
being intentional about their action.
JUDGE TINLEY: No question about that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They're causing the big
expense to be passed right on to the county. That's pretty
much --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think there's some --
some elements of our employee group who just don't care, or
don't want to take the trouble to find out or to move it
forward, kick the can down the road, if you will.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I don't believe that
they realize they're playing with fire. They could be
playing with not having those drugs available to them at the
County's expense when they really need them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What they don't know -- all
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COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Exactly.
JUDGE TINLEY: Ms. Hyde has that information
available as to what those drugs really cost. She made it
available to us a number of months ago on a -- a low-dosage
prescription, a high-dosage prescription. And you look at
those numbers, and you -- you understand the problem.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm.
JUDGE TINLEY: It's really, really -- it will jump
off the page at you.
MS. HYDE: The other group that I guess I could get
in here would be the retirees, because they understand this
right here, probably better than anybody.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Yeah.
MS. HYDE: Because one of the things that they
are -- they are so great about during their open enrollment
is discussing, "How do we save money on our prescriptions?"
'Cause not only do they understand that the plan is impacted;
their pockets are impacted.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the point the Judge
~ was making.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Any other --
MS. GRINSTEAD: Just as a suggestion, 'cause I know
Eva talked at the beginning about we all have to go to these
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mandatory meetings in	the	next	couple	days.	And,	again, I
don't know if she can	or	not,	but I do	feel	-- I	don't take
any of those, but I would never guess in a million years that
one prescription is $600 a month. Is there any way she can
share that information?
JUDGE TINLEY: Sure.
MS. GRINSTEAD: So the employees know, yeah, it's
costing you 55 or 5, but it's costing the county 600. And if
we keep going at that pace, eventually they could all be
taken off. I mean, it might be an eye-opener for the
employee to understand, 'cause like I said, I would have
never guessed. That is ridiculous for a prescription. But
as an employee, if I were paying a $5 copay, I wouldn't be
thinking about it. But if I'm told, "Hey, you know, next
year you might be paying for all of it yourself," I mean, it
just might -- and since she's going to have all the employees
over the next couple days, can she share that information
I with them?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And you can take that one
step further. You can have that illustration of what the
copay is and what the name brand is, and here's an
illustration of what a similar generic would cost.
JUDGE TINLEY: Oh, yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can take it one step
further.
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JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah.
MS. HARGIS: I want to add one other thing. What
they can do too is -- I know my husband has been looking at
this on his own, because, you know, I'm to that point. Give
out these flyers where you can buy it yourself if -- you
know, if you want to say on that, the supplemental thing
where you can order them from Canada or from wherever, so
that they know that if they just determine they're going to
buy it, that we won't pay it.
MS. HYDE: We would never tell them to order from
Canada or Mexico.
MS. HARGIS: I'm saying --
MS. HYDE: We would never tell our employees to
order from Canada or Mexico.
JUDGE TINLEY: We need to fold this up pretty
quick. Do we have anything --
MS. LAVENDER: Let me just make one quick
suggestion. If the -- if it continues to be a problem, raise
the copay on those seven, or any other designated
prescriptions new on the market. Because the doctors are
taught to try the new stuff. And as they develop better
pharmaceuticals, the better ones often work better than ones
that, you know, have become over-the-counter or whatever.
So --
JUDGE TINLEY: We did raise the copay.
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MS. LAVENDER: On these particular --
JUDGE TINLEY: The response was this vendor card,
and boom.
MS. LAVENDER: Raise them a little bit more.
MR. MALEK: The cards will get bigger.
JUDGE TINLEY: The next option is to put it on a
percentage basis.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Need to educate your employees
on the vendor cards, what it does to the county's plan.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And not use it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any member of the Court have
anything further to offer in connection with this? Okay,
we'll be in recess for about 15 minutes.
(Recess taken from 10:50 a.m. to 11:08 a.m.)
(Judge Tinley left the meeting.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me bring the
Commissioners Court back to order here, please. We have a
timed item, an 11 o'clock timed item, and I apologize; we
were running a little bit late. But it's Item 1.11,
presentation by David Mendez with Bickerstaff, Heath,
Delgado, Acosta, LLP, regarding the 2011 redistricting.
David Mendez.
MR. MENDEZ: Commissioner, good morning, members of
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the Court. I'll take a few minutes of your time this morning
to kind of run through the redistricting issues that you'll
be facing next year, answer questions you might have. And,
basically, the presentation I'm going to do for you up here
on the screen is what I've been using with the County Judges
and Commissioners Association. I did it at Far West Texas
and Panhandle and West Texas, and so it's kind of designed to
answer the questions you might have about redistricting.
What I'll try to do is point out your obligation during the
redistricting process, give you the critical timeline that
applies to making decisions on this process, and then
describe some steps that you might undertake to reduce the
cost of this project, which occurs in 2011. And it's very
dependent on election precincts in terms of savings because
of the administrative costs of running those election
precincts, hiring staff and machines and all that to have
them. So, if you can minimize the number of precincts you
have, you can save dollars there.
I know that you're evaluating different firms for
this, so kind of at the end of this, I'll explain what sets
us apart from other people that do this kind of work. And
we'd love to help the county go through this. We helped. you
in the '91, 2001 rounds, and we're ready to go in and process
the 2010 data as soon as it comes out. One of the questions
I had, and I have it regularly, is, well, is there any ccost
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or time that the County's looking at in 2010 to get up to
speed? And there's absolutely none from our standpoint,
'cause I got your information within the computer systems
that we use already. So, basically, I'm waiting for 2011,
when the data will be released by the Department of Justice
so we can get going. So, there's no kind of getting up to
speed costs associated with getting this project going.
There are three obligations that you guys can look
at, or three -- three elements that you can look at as you go
into 2011 redistricting. We have to make sure the four
county commissioner districts are balanced. When the 2011
data comes out, you had about 43,000 population back in 2001.
It looks like the county might have grown by another 6,000 or
7,000 people during the decade, so you're looking at a little
bit under 50,000 population here for -- for 2010, 2011
census. The census actually gets taken on April 1st of this
year, gets computed during the rest of the year, and geta
released to us in 2011. So, you've got a little bit of
growth going here. It might not have occurred equally among
the four commissioner precincts, so we got to balance them.
The other thing that you need to do is, if you change the
elect -- the commissioner precinct lines, you've got to
adjust your county election precincts to kind of match.
There are some other things you've got to look. at
on county election precincts in terms of how many voters are
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there? How easy is it for them to get to polling places?
Those kinds of things. This is an opportunity to fix those.
Finally, you can look at justice precincts if you want to,
just from an administrative standpoint. Those things --
those precincts for constables and justices of the peace
serve for the convenience of the voters of -- the taxpayers
of Kerr County, so the Court has the jurisdiction to make
adjustments to those if you need to change territory around
to make those easier and better to work for your community.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know that they --
they're the same boundaries as the commissioners.
MR. MENDEZ: Sure. And in many instances, if you
go -- you can adjust both at the same time, you know, so in
Kerr County, we could -- if you decided to modify your county
election precincts -- I mean county commissioner precincts,
we could modify the justice precincts at the same time.
We've just got to make sure we don't draw a justice of the
peace or a constable out of their precincts while we're going
at it. And that's just a little part of the jigsaw puzzle.
There are four legal requirements. This is an intrinsically
legal process you're doing. This is not just a
number-crunching exercise we've got to get through. Four
legal steps, if you will. One person/one vote requiremennt is
really the one about that each commissioner precinct should
have roughly the same amount of territory, so that if the
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folks that live in Precinct 1 are -- are roughly equal to the
ones that live in 2, 3, and 4, then they have the same voting
district.
Two requirements of the Voting Rights Act apply to
Kerr County as we go through this. One of them is Section 5
of the Voting Rights Act. It basically is the one that
you're familiar with. Every time you change a polling
location, every time you change a county election precinct,
the County Clerk comes before you to get approval to get it
changed, and then she sends it to Washington, D.C., to get
approved by the Department of Justice. The redistricting
plan is the same. When you modify or rebalance your
commissioner precincts and justice precincts, as we'll be
doing next year, then we will send that to Washington and get
it precleared. Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act really is
an important one for Kerr County, and we had experience with
that in the 2001 session. You want to protect the -- and
make sure you don't harm the ability of minority voters
within your community to elect candidates of their choice.
Right now, there's a county commissioner precinct that might
have 20 or 30 percent Hispanic population under the 2001
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backslide on represent -- on their representation abilities.
That kind of cuts into and -- and fits into the
The other
single-member district plan, and trying to address minority
voting rights there and create a district from which
minorities could be elected. A group of voters came in from
the city challenging that, and saying that it adversely
impacts the Anglo voters in their community. So, you're kind
of having to walk a tightrope, if you will, of looking at all
your voters' rights within your community.
Normally, what I do is go through a more detailed
analysis for -- on each of the four principles I just
described. If you don't mind, I'll kind of whip through
these, since we've talked about them. There's a 10 percent
deviation requirement there. I've described what the Voting
Rights Act does for you guys. And I've described that new
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set of cases out there that are occurring for -- related to
Anglo voters. So, what I really wanted to kind of jump to
here -- and you have a copy of this in your materials
there -- is a timeline. I want to put the whole timeline up
here real quick so that we can -- you can visualize what
we're trying to get you through. We are -- in 2009-'10,
right here at the beginning of the process, we're waiting for
the census to come out. It should be released around January
or February of 2011. Upon its release, we would provide)
you -- assuming you hired us to help you with this process,
we would provide you with a report, what's called an initial
assessment to show you if the precincts are out of balance,
and how you would -- what issues you might need to deal with
from a legal standpoint, remind you of those legal issues.
As you go through the summer of next year, about the
beginning of the summer, in April or May, we would -- if you
have to redistrict, you've got to rebalance them, we'd s',tart
a process to get through it with the community.
What you need to do is adopt some kind of common
guidelines and criteria, some policy, so that everybody's on
the same page if they want to draw with you. You're going to
have to come up with the plan. Ultimately, you're --
you're -- the buck stops with you guys in picking a plan to
be drawn, and so you're going to solicit input from the
community about that plan, if they want to criticize it or
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apples to apples, oranges to oranges. So, during the
beginning of the summer, we'll present you with some
guidelines and criteria that you can give the community as to
how we're going to draw. Once you adopt those, I'll sit. with
each of the members of the Court and find out if your
district is over- or under-populated and what areas you might
be interested in giving up or taking on, assuming you need to
give up population or take on additional territory. County
road miles might matter, where your precinct barns are, what
kind of facilities are in your area, which voters live there.
All of those are legitimate inquiries.
Technologically, things have changed a lot from the
here, or one of my colleagues would come out here, and we'd
sit with you in your office and we'd get your information on
a map. We'd take it to Austin and we'd draw. Now we can sit
with you -- you can sit at your desk, on your laptop, log in
by -- into a session with us like we are here, and I can have
my staff drawing with your input. And they could hand you
the mouse so you can say, "Well, I need to move this here."
You can mark the parts of the map you want us to look at in
more detail, how many people live here, that kind of stuff.
We can do that live over the phone. We could have a work
session with the Court once we get to an illustrative map
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where my drawer and I could be doing this from Austin, and
you guys can be watching us draw. You can be listening to us
over the conference phone. So, it saves on the travel part
of that if there's any cost there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's fantastic. In other
words, we could sit down and carve out Riverhill Country Club
and put it in my precinct, and Bill would never know.
MR. MENDEZ: Well, at least not till you get into
the meeting.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Trust me, I'd know it.
MR. MENDEZ: Eventually, all the chickens would
come home to roost. But --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
MR. MENDEZ: Again, technologically, it's very
exciting, 'cause we can do things in a -- in a much more'
efficient and cost-effective way, and that just saves
taxpayer dollars. So, by the end of the summer, the idea is
we would present an illustrative plan that I've built based
upon input from the Court. We'd present it in a public
session; we'd get the input from the folks, and then you all,
based upon that input, can adopt it, modify it, change it,
throw it out, get another one. If we finish by the end of
the summer, we can submit it to Washington and get it
precleared. The idea is to get it done in time so that the
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primaries in 2012 are clean and unaffected. So, by January 1
of 2012, we want to make sure everything's precleared so
whoever's up in 2012 for the primaries can go about their
business of filing for the new precincts and going on. So,
that -- that's the basic approach there.
The thing that, really, a lot of these blocks are
associated with on the top -- and they're hard to read;
they're easier to read on your chart there -- is the County
Clerk has to take into consideration the county election:
precincts, and I'm going to get over there right now. Each
county election precinct cannot contain territory from more
than one county commissioner precinct, justice precinct,
congressional district, state representative district, or any
city ward, those kinds of things. So, they've got a really
tough job to do at the County Clerk's office in bringing
forward county election precincts that meet these
specifications without adversely affecting you. I don't have
it in there right now. I had a -- a little map that shows
the overlay of these lines. But it can get very challenging.
The problem is that usually the Legislature's the last one to
finish drawing the state -- the state rep districts and the
congressional districts, and so we're kind of waiting around
for them to finish before we draw your election precincts,
but that's one of the things we focus on.
We figure in most communities, if you can save one
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savings from not having that precinct will pretty much pay
for your whole redistricting process. It's -- by the time
you buy machines, you pay for workers to manage it, you build
the ballot stiles for it and all that, over the decade you
listening -- 'cause I was here a year ago in early
January-February of -- of 2009, and we talked briefly about
redistricting, and I think you all indicated to me y'all are
doing all this boundary and annexation survey stuff with the
Census Bureau, so I think you're covered. So, your -- your
maps and files should be in order at -- with the -- with the
Census Bureau.
They're -- they changed mapping styles over at the
Census Bureau. In the old days, they were following some
federal geography, and then they shifted over to the U.S.G.S.
quad maps. Are you familiar with those topographical maps of
the county? They've shifted over to those. And it's created
some problems that we noticed, like in Travis County. The
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things where you can see -- like, in this closeup in El Paso,
sometimes they don't even bear any relation to each other.
that's -- that's my basic spiel that we do for the county
judges and commissioners.
I gave you a copy of a paper in my packet that I
gave the Conference of Urban Counties here; they published it
in October when we had our annual -- they had their annual
meeting there in San Antonio. It's got all the basic
questions you're going to get from voters; you know, what
is -- when does the census come out and how does it affect
Kerr County, and what are the Commissioners going to do? And
so if you need that, if you want to keep it handy, that's a
good kind of go-to sheet on material. I guess the only thing
I want to conclude with is what sets us apart from other guys
that do this kind of stuff. Our firm's 30 years old. We've
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been representing counties all over that period of time. We
drew -- we represent every governmental body from the State
Legislature to the county level to the local -- the smaller
level, like the school districts and cities and -- and folks
like that, that have the single-member districts. That job
and that kind of work has always been in defending
governmental bodies.
A lot of my colleagues will come forward and say,
"Well, we've been doing this for 30 years," or whatever.
Well, with all due respect, all of the experience that a lot
of these guys have is in suing governmental bodies. I mean,
they have been redistricting, if you will, folks, because
they file voting rights lawsuits against counties, cities,
and schools. And now that there aren't a lot of those
lawsuits being brought, they're sort of shifting sides, and
want to do the -- the drawing of the county commissioner and
city council. Well, that kind of experience is very
different. We approach it from trying to save taxpayer
dollars, trying to do something that's going to defend the
county. For every action you take on one side of the county
here on these -- on these voting rights issues, there is
another side of that from a -- an equal protection of all
other voters in your community, and you have to have a
balanced view of those. And I think that that's what our
experience does.
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We have 10 or 12 folks in my firm that are
available; they're lawyers who are available to work with you
on these projects, and then we'll have about eight drawers
who will actually be mapping this stuff. So, a lot of the
other firms have one or two people; you know, that's all the
lawyers they have in their firm, and they're going to cover
the world with that, you know. We staff up for this. We
have enough backup guys so you're not waiting around for us
to have time for you. We're going to be here when you're
going to have a meeting. Are there any questions?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: David, I believe your firm
did the redistricting for us in 2001.
MR. MENDEZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't recall what th''e
cost that we paid for that is. Do you know?
MR. MENDEZ: I know it was right in the range of
$36, 000.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MR. MENDEZ: That -- and I'll tell you, there were
several issues -- we were just visiting on that -- several
issues that came up. Y'all had a plan filed by a group out
of San Antonio, attempting to draw a predominantly Hispanic
district, and so we had some exercise that we went through
with that group. We also went through three or four election
precincts, like, iterations --
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right.
MR. MENDEZ: -- of drawings.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I recall.
MR. MENDEZ: So there were some -- some issues that
round. Hopefully, there won't be here this round. I can
give you a precise budget based upon what I think the number
of meetings are going to be and all that. If -- if y'all are
getting ready to vote on this at a future meeting, I can
present y'all with a budget.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It won't be long, I think.
It would be wise to get in some numbers.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think it will be very
helpful.
MR. MENDEZ: I'll bring you a budget and I'll mail
it to the Judge, and that way he can distribute it to the
Court. And it will lay out exactly how many meetings I
anticipate, just from the experience we had last time. And,
like I said, there isn't any start-up cost, 'cause the -- the
technical information's in the computer. Unless you changed
your precincts during the decade, which -- or polling
locations, things like that, I doubt that there's been much
change during the decade. So --
MS. PIEPER: There hasn't been.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me refine the question
just a little bit. We've had some other proposals; we've had
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some flat -- flat fee proposals. I'm not certain that the
flat fee proposal contemplates really serious issues that
arise during the process, like you mentioned that we
encountered back in 2001. And if that is not the case, then
obviously, the County would be obligated for additional
funding, correct?
MR. MENDEZ: That is so.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How about you? How about
your firm? If we do encounter significant issues again, as
we did back in 2001, how does that -- how is that handled
with respect to fees for service?
MR. MENDEZ: All of our proposals are hourly, and
so when I build you a budget, I'll tell you what each of
those tasks -- you've seen all those blocks of tasks
throughout the summer. I lay out for each activity how many
hours I anticipate it's going to take. If something happens,
I mean, a lot of this is outside of the Court's control 'and
outside of our control.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of course.
MR. MENDEZ: If somebody comes before the Court and
-- and urges a different approach, and we have to expend --
the Court has to expend energy figuring that out, and asks us
to do something, well, obviously, it's going to change the
price. So, what I'll do is I will include, and in the
appropriate places on that budget, what I think it will take
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for those steps. And then you look at it, and if you think
I'm not being realistic about it or whatever, you know, you
tell me. But, basically, all I can do is build you a budget
just the same way you build a budget to fix the road or to
fix -- to fix the roof on the building. Once you get up
there, if one of the trusses is broken on the roof, or you've
got a -- you know, a different thing, well, you know --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The cost goes up. We
understand that. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Anything else? I have a
question, David. When we talk about deviation, --
MR. MENDEZ: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- and the law allows us to
have a 10 percent deviation, is that -- are we referring. to
minority issues only?
MR. MENDEZ: Total population, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MR. MENDEZ: When we do the 10 percent comparison
between the four commissioners' precincts, we're looking at
total population. I'm going to see if I have this chart here
that explains that in a lot of detail. Usually -- let me go
back here -- I usually keep a chart like that in here. No,
it's not in this one. But I -- let's say there's 40,000
people in the county, just to be simple. And let's say that
an ideal population size is going to be 10,000 population in
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each precinct. If yours has 10,500 and yours has 9,300, then
yours is 5 percent over and yours is 7 percent under. The --
you take the 7 and the 5, add them together, and you take --
get rid of the pluses and minuses, and that is a 12 percent
deviation. You've got to bring it into balance. And so what
you might do in a situation like that, you take a couple of
the 500 that you're over -- let's say you move two of those
hundreds over into the commissioner's precinct that was
under, and that'll get you within 10 percent; it will be at
9 percent then. And so that's how you do it. But it's the
total population. Minorities don't come into that.
Citizenship doesn't come into that. The only thing that
might come in is if you have a federal or state penitentiary
in the county, and I don't think you guys have one of those.
But in some counties, if there's federal prisoners out there,
they get counted, because they're -- they are residing in
that county. And so what we have to do is go back those guys
out, because I have some counties where, really, I could. draw
whole county commissioner precincts out of a prison. And,
you know --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That would be Buster's.
(Laughter.)
MR. MENDEZ: So -- but we don't -- that's the .only
other aspect.
25 ~ COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. And then -- so
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we had an earlier firm come in and visit with us that said
that we were 20 percent --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Out of whack.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- out of whack, deviation.
You know, and I wish I'd have thought of this when he said
that, but I didn't. How in the world would he know that?
MR. MENDEZ: How would you know? I mean, until the
numbers get published -- they haven't gone and -- and they
', haven't issued the questionnaire yet. It doesn't go out till
April; it will be done on April 1st. It's very possible that
the -- you know, that there's no deviation; that this is
still in balance. The 3,000 or 4,000 or 5,000 people that
moved in during the period might have moved in in -- in a
proportionate manner to the four of y'all. Out of 100
clients we had last round, we had two counties that didn't
have to -- that were in balance. One was -- had a population
of 10,000. The other one was Dallas County, with almost
two million people. Two million people, and they were in
balance. I mean, they went ahead and redistricted anyway,
because they had other things they wanted to do. But you
can't tell.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah.
MR. MENDEZ: There is -- there's no way to tell
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I think I have a few more than Buster does, so I think he'll
probably wind up getting Bear Creek Road. (Laughter.)
Completely and totally --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think so.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I already know what I'm
going to give to Buster, and it's not Riverhill.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. We need to get
this lawyer tuned up here. I can see it coming down the
pike.
MR. MENDEZ: But I appreciate y'all making time for
i me .
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you.
MR. MENDEZ: If there's no other questions besides
the budget, I'll just send that on to you.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that it would be
great if you did that.
MR. MENDEZ: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, David. Thank you
~ very much.
MR. MENDEZ: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go to Item 1.15;
consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on personnel
issues regarding insurance coverage, privacy officers --
officer, and new business agreement signatures required f or
Kerr County. Do we want to go into executive session on
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ms. Hyde?
MS. HYDE: Couple of new things have come out. We
signed business agreements with all our insurance folks, but
legislation came out on 2/4 that has changed the business
agreement legislation. And what that means is, they have
~, something called HITECH, H-I-T-E-C-H, and that HITECH now
will hold the vendors just as responsible for privacy
information as it holds us accountable. So, in the past,
let's just say ABC Corporation, we're sending them
information and they're sending us information about
prescriptions and who has them and what they're taking. And
out there in the worldwide web somehow, between them tome,
it gets out there on the worldwide web. If it does, we have
to follow certain guidelines now. But they are held jus as
much responsible as we are. Did I do that in an
easy-to-understand method? If it gets out, something like
that, then we have to do things like put it in the newspaper,
put it on television, put on it the radio. I think y'all
might remember when Social Security lost a couple of
computers and people's information was out, and it was all
over the news, and we'd have to do the same type thing. But
on the business agreements, they also want your privacy
officer to sign those agreements, and that's me. So, before
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I sign something, we talk to the Judge. Because in the past,
the Judge has always signed those, but now they want the
privacy officer, so that you guys are kind of insulated and
I'm in the -- I'm in the middle.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What does that mean? I
I with me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I suspected that.
MR. MALEK: You don't have the authority to be --
you don't have that authority; it all rests on the privacy
officer.
MS. BAILEY: Because you're not the privacy ',
officer.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who might that be? Is that
a paid position? Do we have somebody on staff? Talk to' us.
MR. MALEK: That's the privacy officer.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're it?
MS. HYDE: Yeah, I'm the privacy officer. I'm just
wanting to make sure you understand, this kind of changes how
we've done things, and I'd like to get it on the record
that -- even just that you understand it, and that I will be
bringing stuff to you before we sign it so that you can
review it and look at it. It will be the same process; it
just won't be the Judge's signature. It will be mine.
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MR. MALEK: Because you're a public entity, the
Court has to give Eva permission to sign the document.
That's really why we're here.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So that's what we're doing
MR. MALEK: Yes
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to authorize
Ms. Hyde to be the privacy officer?
MS. HYDE: You've already done that.
MR. MALEK: She's already the --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are we doing today?
MS. HYDE: Just authorizing me to sign these
documents for you.
MR. MALEK: To sign the new agreements that
changed.
MS. HYDE: And there's six. It will be with
Wallace -- excuse me, Willis H.R.H., Script Care, Alamo
Insurance, DPAS, Data Path, and U.M.R -- there's five.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are we authorizing you to
sign documents that we have not seen, or know the contents
of?
MS. HYDE: Oh. Yeah. The Judge had them.
MS. BAILEY: Are these -- Eva, are these just .going
to be the exact same agreements that are already authorized,
just with a different signatory? Seems like the Court could
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authorize you to sign those subject to them being the same
agreement. In other words, if it's the same agreement, then
you can be authorized to sign them.
MS. HYDE: Well, it is, but it isn't. I don't know
that I could say that, because the HITECH is in there.
That's what's forcing this issue.
MR. MALEK: HITECH outlines all the penalties .and
fines and -- and remedies for violation of HIPPA.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. We're not going
to vote on something we haven't seen or that she hasn't
signed off on. So --
MS. BAILEY: Is the time crunch such that you
MS. HYDE: Yes.
MS. BAILEY: -- bring them --
MS. HYDE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, what?
MR. MALEK: It's supposed to have already been done
by the 17th.
MS. HYDE: They didn't pass the legislation until
2/4.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. Answer .her
MS. HYDE: I did.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. So, yes, the time
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MS. PIEPER: Right now.
MS. BAILEY: You can't bring it back to another
session and be in compliance?
MR. MALEK: We're not in compliance now.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I won't vote for something
like that, I'm sorry. These guys might.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We are not in compliance
I now because?
MR. MALEK: The 17th has already passed, and that
was the deadline that the feds gave us to have these
documents signed. And, of course, they only gave them to us
on the 4th or 5th, probably, and so there wasn't a
Commissioners Court meeting in between the time that they
issued the regulations and the time that we're now bringing
it to the Court.
MS. BAILEY: What penalties, if any, are there for
us failing to be in compliance in a timely manner?
MR. MALEK: That's a good question.
MS. HYDE: We don't know.
MR. MALEK: We don't know.
MS. BAILEY: If there are none, I'd suggest we put
it on the next agenda, and let me approve the contracts
before then.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's got to be done.
She's got to sign off on it before we can do anything.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to know the
content.
MS. HYDE: Same content.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm unable to authorize
anybody to sign anything, particularly the County Judge or
anybody else, that this Court is not apprized of what it's
all about. If it needs to be in executive session, that's
where it will be, but whatever. So, how do we get around
the -- figure out how we get around it to make it happen.
MS. HYDE: Did they put that in, the contract?
MS. GRINSTEAD: It's probably in his book.
MS. HYDE: Possibly in his book.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we need to talk to the
Judge? Is that what you're saying? ',
MS. HYDE: Can it be approved pending approval. by
the County Attorney that it's okay?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've done that, but we
usually know what it is that we're sending over for her to
review.
MS. BAILEY: Let me ask --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not sending a blind
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MS. HYDE: I think it's in the budget packet.
MS. BAILEY: Are the agreements in existence that
we could look at and bring it back this afternoon, maybe?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That'd be my suggestion,
'cause we're going to come back at 1:30.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can do that. We're back
in here at 1:30 or so.
MS. BAILEY: I'll look at it during lunch.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Back at 1:30 anyway. We can
just recall this item, and be happy to do that.
MS. HYDE: Okay. He doesn't --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you mind doing it that
quick? I'm sorry to put --
MS. BAILEY: I'll do it.
MR. MALEK: It's only two pages.
MS. HYDE: Only, like -- one is one page, and 'one
is two pages.
MS. BAILEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all don't do this any
', more. Do you hear me?
MS. HYDE: Tell the -- tell the law not to do that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, you tell them.
~' MR. MALEK: Yeah, the feds, they pass all these
laws. It's just -- there's been a rash of it over the last
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two months that we're trying to get complied with.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, I'm serious about that;
don't do this crap any more. We -- there's time, like last
week or whenever it was you got them, we can come in here any
time and .have meetings. If it's -- if there's a time frame
like that, we can come in any time and have meetings to
approve things, okay? All right. Item 1. -- so we're going
to come back with 1.15 this afternoon at -- after 1:30.
MS. BAILEY: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 1.16, consider,
discuss, and take appropriate action on personnel issue
regarding the new HIPAA, COBRA, and CHIPRA -- whatever the
heck that is -- and other legislative changes requiring
mandated notifications required for Kerr County employees.
Would you like to go into executive session on that?
MS. HYDE: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Okay, what do we', got?
MS. HYDE: Unless you're going to fuss at me again.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I might.
MS. HYDE: Okay. In a nutshell, here's what
they've done. This same stuff that we just talked about,
federal law changed on February 4th. Guess when they got
this stuff out? Last week. But we're supposed to be in
compliance by the 17th of February. Ain't going to happen.
However, things have changed. COBRA notification and COBRA
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rights have changed. This has been reviewed with the Judge
as well. And what that means is, this will be the fourth
time in two years that the president has expanded COBRA... So,
back in 2008, they came out and they said, okay, instead of
it being nine months, you're going to give everybody 15
months. Oh, and by the way, you got to go back, and anyone
that's gone, you have to offer it to them again. In February
of 2009, they did the same thing, and they said, oh, and by
the way, you get to start all over. So, you got to go back
and you got to tell those people again. In October of 2009,
they did the same thing, and now in February of 2010, they've
done the same thing and they've expanded it again. It
continues to grow. It continues to get huge. So, anyone
that has left service with Kerr County since October 1st'of
2008 through February 4th of 2010 gets to redo on COBRA, in a
nutshell. And they get -- as an added bonus, we get 15 '',
months, okay? Now, there's a couple of stipulations in ''
there, kind of, you know, little tiny, where we could say no,
but about 99 percent of it is, we got to say yes. So, we're
jumping quickly. This is pretty simple. "You will do this."
So, no offense; no, I didn't review it with Ilse. We're
doing it. We're sending it out. But all employees have to
be notified of it.
CHIPRA, it now becomes our responsibility -- and I
said something to you about this before, Commissioner
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now passed something that pushes it back down to the county.
It is now our responsibility to notify all employees there's
such a thing as CHIPS for the state. Oh, and by the way, we
got to tell them where to go and how to get it, immediately.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where do you go?
MR. MALEK: To their web site.
MS. HYDE: To their web site, and U.S. Department
of Health and Human Services. I don't have to draw a map
yet. I think that's coming.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
MS. HYDE: We also have to go back and do HIPAA one
more time. The new legislation regarding HIPAA is -- is, even
more hard. In addition, there used to be one tier -- what
they called one tier of fines and fees. Those fines and
fees, max of $100 -- you get your hand smacked, $100, or a
maximum of $15,000. Well, not no more. We got four tiers.
They've made it -- you can do it where you really didn't know
you were doing anything wrong, and it's 100 bucks, up to
15,000, all the way up to -- there is no limit, except for
1.5 million, which is pretty huge, and that's Tier 4. And we
need to get --
MR. MALEK: Per incident.
MS. HYDE: Yeah. That's per incident, by the way.
So, if we talk about something four times, that's, like,.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Wonderful.
MS. HYDE: So, with these legislative changes, the
reason why this is on here is because I've gotten blowback --
that's a good S.O. word -- regarding mandatory meetings, and
I need y'all's help. We have to have some of these meetings
by law. And I sent out an e-mail this morning explaining why
we have to have open enrollment meetings, why we have to have
insurance meetings, why we have to have retirement and 457
meetings. That's not an Eva thing. I really would rather
not sometimes. But it's a mandatory federal or state
legislation that has come through and said, "You will do
this." This right here is one of those. I need to get the
word out to every single employee. They need to sign off
that they were told about it. They need to know about open
enrollment and insurance. We already did that. Now we .have
to tell them about 457 and the ramifications of it. So, I do
kind of need y'all's help in making sure that this word gets
out. If we have to have a mandatory meeting, it's not just
because we want to, you know, drink coffee --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How do you want us to help
you? What can we do?
MS. HYDE: Tell me you support me on this. And if
you want, I'll bring every single mandatory meeting here and
get y'all to gavel it.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, all right. Let me
read the agenda item again.
MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Consider, discuss, take
appropriate action on personnel issues regarding new HIPAA,
COBRA, CHIPRA, and other legislative changes.
MS. HYDE: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How --
MS. HYDE: Requiring mandated notifications.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. What are the other
legislative changes?
MS. HYDE: I just told you.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that what you were --
MS. HYDE: Right now, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you were talking
about HIPAA.
MS. HYDE: It's HIPAA, COBRA, CHIPRA, insurance,
457, retirement.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. And so you want
us to pass a court order here that says, "Bless thee"?
MS. HYDE: You're blessing me, and go forth and
conquer.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, how --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Are you comfortable with
this, counselor?
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MS. BAILEY: I don't -- it kind of depends on what
the motion is. I mean, I think the appropriate action you
take is just to authorize her to --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To notify employees as
required by law.
MS. BAILEY: Yeah, schedule planned meetings and
notify employees as required by law.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The question is how. You
can do it by telephone. You can do it by Internet. You can
do it by mail. You can do it by meeting.
MS. HYDE: Meeting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What are you proposing?
', MS. HYDE: Meeting.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're proposing meetings
to be on county time? Or at 5:01 p.m.?
MS. HYDE: Meetings. If I can send these out and
get signatures on them and get them back, original
signatures, then some of this we can do that way. But the
457 -- like, tomorrow, that's been planned; that needs to be
sitting down in a chair, understanding it. And that's not
for me to do.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Question.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. Your Honor. One
thing that has come up, even from other departments on the
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mandatory meetings -- and this is a question for clarity. I
believe that -- and Eva's right that she does have to
schedule mandatory meetings for these things, and I think
that the employees all have to be notified of these mandatory
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It doesn't say mandatory --
mandated meetings; it says mandated notifications.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's right. Now, if that
employee -- you know, say he's had 457, and he's had them all
this time. He has no changes; he doesn't want no changes,
not interested. And this came up not necessarily from my
point, but from another member that's not even with my
department. I don't see how we can force that employee to
attend. There's been -- he's been notified of the mandatory
-- of the meeting. She's got to have the meeting. The
meeting is what is mandatory, her scheduling a meeting,
having a meeting. I don't think that each and every
employee's attendance at that meeting is necessarily the
mandatory, if they choose to not attend it. The meeting was
offered.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which one are you talking
~ about, Sheriff?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Any of them.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Any of those.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's not what the agenda
item's talking about. It talks about mandated notifications.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, then it goes into hpw
that notification is being done. If that notification is
requiring that employee to show up when the employee doesn't
want to be there, he's been advised of the meeting.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Y'all are saying the same
thing, I think.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I hope so.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, I'm just wondering, does
here.
MS. BAILEY: I think you've got legal versus -.-
versus proof. I think Eva wants to make sure that she's got
something in writing so that if someone comes back and nays,
"I didn't know," she can say, "Here it is. You were here;
you signed it." You might get the same effect by having,; the
department head -- like in my department, I've got six people
in my department. If four of them don't want to go, if ''I can
have them sign something that says --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They were advised.
MS. BAILEY: -- they got notified of it, "I don't
want to go," sign here. That might satisfy. So, there'i'i!,s
legal notification, and then there's what's going to cover
H.R.'s -- you know.
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MS. PIEPER: I have another take on that. If she
sends me an e-mail that says here's a schedule; this is a
mandatory meeting, and one of my deputies says, "I don't want
to go because I don't want it," I'm going to tell them,
"Tough, you need to go over there and sit long enough to hear
just the presentation of it, and then if you decide you don't
want it, that's fine. You can sign off on her paper." But
they need to at least sit and listen to the presentation'of
it to make sure they understand if they want it or don't want
it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably true.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's up to them,
'cause for -- in her case, it's easy if it's 8:00 to 5:0;0
Monday through Friday. In my case, working shift work, ',I had
some of the people that say no, and they don't want the
overtime pay. I don't want to give out the overtime payl if
they don't want to be there.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can do these by
departments.
MS. HYDE: We typically do them -- you asked me
earlier in another -- can do I that? Can I use something
from earlier today?
MS. BAILEY: Sure.
MS. HYDE: You asked me how do I educate and Yow do
I get the word out to insure that they get the word. Thus is
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misunderstanding the information and not doing something',
because they don't understand it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand your point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, maybe you need tolget
the -- your friends, the federals, to change it, to mandate
that they be in the chair.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think you put out packa'~es
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of what all the changes are. You show it; you advise th!e
employees, there is a meeting at this date and time for ;
further explanation, in person with Eva over these issues,
and let them sign off on that packet. And if they show up to
the meeting, fine. If they don't, they got the packet oaf
information.
MS. HYDE: You can't do that with insurance,
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though, gentlemen. And it's very difficult to do on a 4'57.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Why not?
MS. HYDE: Rusty, come on.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Why not?
MS. HYDE: How big --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait, wait, wait.
MS. HYDE: How big information -- how big is all
that packet on insurance? Do we really think that the
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would love for them to,
but I'm not going to vote to mandate that they go to a
meeting when they're not -- when it's not a mandate. It'.
mandates that you notify them. '.
MS. HYDE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why are you laughing? I
don't understand. I don't get that.
MS. HYDE: Because we want these people to be
educated about it. In order for them to be educated, they
need to have the opportunity to ask questions. But most'
times when you send out paper, what do most people do with
it?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Throw it in the trash c,an.
I do.
MS. HYDE: You sign it and throw it away. And that
means you don't understand. So, what happens if we're
offering them something, and they don't understand it an;d
they throw it away, and, you know, two or three later --
years later, they need it. They need to understand how 'it
impacts them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you're asking the Caurt,
then, to mandate that employees attend these meetings.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, you're asking us to
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mandate them understanding what you're talking about.
MS. HYDE: True. True.. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's not going t'o
MS. HYDE: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not going to happen.
MS. BAILEY: I'm not sure you have the authority to
tell other elected officials what to do.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have no --
MS. BAILEY: I mean, it would be Brat if you clould
encourage that, but I don't think you can mandate them.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can't. I know that. ';
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we were to adopjt a
court order today that requires Human Resources to take !the
necessary steps to fulfill our requirement for notificatiion
with respect to HIPAA, COBRA, and CHIPRA, --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And other legislative
changes.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- and other legislative
changes, undefined, will we be doing what you're seeking:.,?
MS. HYDE: Not really, but that's okay. We'll'; take
it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's the agenda item.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tell me why it's not.'
MS. HYDE: Because I don't know how we're supposed
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to educate people if we can't get them in the seat for t'jhem
to listen. It's hard enough to get people educated when.
they're sitting in the seat listening. So -- but if that's
all we need to do, is get them to sign off on something,. then
I can feel good about it. I've done what y'all have asked.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think they sign off, and
it's indicated they should attend it, and they sign off on
the stuff. Then it's back on that employee. If, two years
down the road, he needs it, you can show that you had this;
you were given it. You signed off on it. You had the
opportunity to go. You chose not to. Then that's on the
employee.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Let me get at this another
way. I sit here and listen to all this argument one way','and
the other. I think we've lost focus, that the people that
are mandated are our employees. And I think that an employer
has the right to have mandatory meetings for educational;
purposes for employees.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, we have the right. No
question about that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I mean, it's not like
everybody's an independent soul that doesn't rely on thel~~i
county for employment. I can assure you that in private!
business, if there's a mandate, the employer's going to is ay,
"You're going to be in my office at this time, and you're
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employed any more." That's the way I see it.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand your point,
and it's a valid point. My hangup is maybe with the styling
of the agenda item.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're required
notifications. The reality is, Eva's talking about a ,;
required meeting to notify and explain.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: As being the notification,
having a meeting. ',
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Am I correct, there's a
distinction here?
MS. HYDE: Right.
MS. PIEPER: You can do a motion to that effect.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe it's semantics; X
don't know. So, you would be doing departmental meetings; is
that correct? You --
MS. HYDE: The same thing that we do with open
enrollment with insurance.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You go to the Sheriff's
Office and you divvy up the Sheriff's -- the people the y', can
take at one time, and blab, blab, blab, blab.
MS. HYDE: Right.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then you go to the Cle';rk's
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MS. HYDE: Right. Or we have it wide open, where
people can interact, just like we do for open enrollment'.
We've got the 457 folks coming in for the annual open
enrollment for them. You can't have insurance -- with
retirement or any sort of retirement supplemental, you can't
have those two together.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can she see this? Can you
-- do you have this?
MS. BAILEY: What? Yeah, I do. L
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Under the -- the verbiage in
the agenda item, when it says "mandated notifications," if
we -- if we vote on this agenda item, can we broaden it to
require employees to attend meetings?
MS. BAILEY: My concern is that if you were to
order an elected official to order that of their employees,
when -- and they don't want to do it, that you might get'--
might have some difficulty. It would be my recommendation
instead that you do something like move to authorize the H.R.
Department to take appropriate action to make mandated
notifications, and encourage all elected officials to require
their employees --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that.
MS. BAILEY: -- to attend such meetings.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that
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~ meetings?
MS. BAILEY: I don't think so.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you answered it. I
think your answer is correct. We can make a recommendatlion
that -- that those department heads or elected officials urge
their employees to participate.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or you can bring it bacik
under her verbiage, and we'll do exactly what Bruce said',.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I agree with what '-- I
was going to bring that back to Ilse. So, I don't think', we
can mandate elected officials to -- you know, they
technically work for the elected official. Department heads
are a little different issue.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Certainly.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think this is all
well-intentioned to do the right thing, trying to help
employees, and I don't know why it always becomes such an
issue.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it needn't be,
really. If we -- if we get into recommending to elected'
officials, that's cool. And we ask them to urge their
employees to participate.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: They may urge them not to
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e.
MS. PIEPER: What about -- I have a question about,
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess you can call a,
mandatory meeting of your -- your staff any time you wand to,
to discuss whatever purpose you want to discuss.
MS. PIEPER: Right. I'm just trying to think pf
something to help her. If she tells me, "Jannett, we need a
mandatory meeting on this," I'm going to say okay, and then
my employees will attend.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: There's the key right there.
MS. PIEPER: But, I mean, here we have the H. R.
Director, and we're wanting her to do her job, but yet she
needs some tools to help her do her job.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Look, bring that in the'iform
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that it's supposed to be. We cannot do that today, though.
MS. PIEPER: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I mean, if y'all bring back
verbiage, I'm sure that we'll do something.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like Ilse's suggesti':on.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do too.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Reasonable suggestion. It
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MS. BAILEY: I think if you're just trying --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be the only course
MS. BAILEY: -- urging officials to comply, I think
you could do that today. Because. what you're ordering i,s
that she be authorized to have the meetings, and you're ;just
recommending that department heads urge their employees o
comply.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, if we were to adop',t a
court order that authorizes Ms. Hyde and her staff to provide
the mandated notifications to Kerr County employees for ',these
items, and then, comma, and urge elected officials/department
heads to -- can't say instruct, but urge them to participate,
that would suffice?
MS. BAILEY: I think so.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I'll second it.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so -- so then you could
send a copy of the court order, and then that would be our
support toward that thing, right? You're not sold out
completely on this thing?
MS. HYDE: No, sir, I'm not. But that's okay.!:
That's okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did we not kick the ca'n
down the road a little bit?
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MS. HYDE: It's the point that if we have something
that is mandated, and it is a mandated training that they
need, how do they get it from a piece of paper?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you missed the
sense of the motion. The sense of the motion is for your --
you and your staff to take the necessary steps to fulfill the
mandated requirements for notifications, right? For these
items. Comma, and urge elected officials/department heads to
have their employees participate.
MS. HYDE: But I think the point was taken from one
or two, again, they can say, "No, you don't really need ~o
go," so we miss out on a large -- sometimes a large group.
But that's -- that's county government. That's all I cad
hope for.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, it's kind of a power
that we don't have.
MS. HYDE: Right. It's all I can hope for.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ain't going to settle for
this deal that we're willing to --
MS. HYDE: It's all I can hope for.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there a motion on the
table?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There is, and a second'.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And a second. Let's se!e.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Any further discussion'?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you -- do you have the
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is there any other
discussion on this? All in favor, please say "aye."
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Motion carries.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Ms. Hyde. The
chair voted.
MS. HYDE: Big chair.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Big chair. And it's
something new. Let's go to --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One addendum in there, Buster.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Eighteen.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, hold on. Don't
anybody move. Item 1.18, to consider, discuss, and take;
appropriate action regarding the chili cook-off schedulefor
April 2nd and 3rd, 2010, at Flat Rock Lake Park. The
honorable Sheriff W.R. Hierholzer.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A question came up to us .' The
people that have that had permission from the Court to have
the chili cook-off down there came to our department wanlting
to hire a couple of guys, off-duty type security for them,
which that's fine. The County requires a lot of that. The
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request -- or what I don't think is covered in the agreement
the County has with them to use that park, and their requests
are, number one, that we don't allow anybody to drive through
that park while they are having their cook-off. They're'
having an issue with -- maybe it's younger ones, younger
teenagers, whoever, driving through, you know, too fast.
They're concerned about safety of their people that are
attending their cook-off. That's one request. The second
request is that we allow no alcoholic beverages to be brought
into that park during their cook-off. Maybe it messes with
their license or whatever they have. My understanding i
they just have access to the park, not exclusive use of !the
park. And that's where I need some guidance from this Court
in what to tell them, or what this Court wants done.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty and I have talked
about this, and I don't think we've ever granted an exclusive
use of the park to anybody.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hmm-mm, quite the contr'.ary.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Huh?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Quite the contrary.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. We allow the us~'e of
the park, and the park is a public park and it's open tol
anybody to use at any time. And so I -- I agree with the
Sheriff, and we're not creating exclusivity. But are you
going to -- I'm going back to the traffic issue, or thel
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speeding issue. Are you going to allow them to hire a couple
of your deputies for that?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: If they want. And normal'1y on
county property, they're required to have some security :under
the County's agreement on functions.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And if a couple of my officers
do end up -- number one, they are off-duty; they're not ';
allowed to use county equipment, being the patrol cars or any
of that, so working traffic in there is not --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What about uniforms?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, they do -- they are
allowed to wear a uniform at the time. Most of them hale
a -- a privately purchased shirt, kind of like this one 'hat
I wear. That is for working those kind of things. Not '';our
full department-issued uniform.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What if we had Road and
Bridge put temporary posted speed signs out there? Speekl
limit during this event is 10 miles an hour, or whatever?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I doubt if it's enforceab e
that quick on a dirt road or whatever that is, you know,'.
~, going though the county park, okay? I don't know that yyou
can, quote, enforce that sign. I don't know what the laiws
are on how it has to be posted and all that.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, I think you put upj a
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We can
try and ask people to slow down at the time guys are working
some off duty there, but I don't think that there's anything
we can enact that will --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, I wasn't suggestinlg
that. I'm just saying that Road and Bridge could take some
measures to put a courtesy sign up there during this event.
Speed, you know, whatever.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Event in progress.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You see that a lot. Those of
us that are doing bicycle riding deals, you'll see that a lot
along the road where it says, you know, bike event. You
know, please slow down. Or -- or event ahead or something
like that. That may be able to be -- be used in there, ',just
to give them -- and then we can assist with them, but wet
can't keep them from driving through the park, nor can wee
keep alcoholic beverages, I think, from entering that park.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We could have them prepare
a sign for use from this point further, "Private event,
please drive carefully."
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Something like that.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just put it on a pedestal;
it's there.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Get Road and Bridge to make
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it.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think that would be helpful.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about.-- what about --
you put this on here for a purpose. Now, are you supposed to
report back to somebody, or are we supposed to?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We had invited the one from
there. I know I had the patrol captain get a hold of the one
that was requesting it, that's with that event and wantejd to
get it, and I wanted them here. We actually -- Patrol
Captain Prout called them and notified them it was going to
be on the agenda today to see if they would want to show, up
and give a -- you know, their side of the story or something
else. We wanted to give them that opportunity.
MS. BAILEY: Let me say something, just to heaid off
problems. I don't remember who, but someone asked me two
weeks ago if they could block off -- my understanding was a
parking area there that generally would allow parking, but --
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in other words, I think I was given a different set of facts,
and I gave a different answer. So, if you get something
saying the County Attorney said we can block off traffic:
through there, that's not what was said. What I said wa's
that if there's a parking area that's ordinarily parking!, but
you're going to be having your event there, of course, you
can block that off, because it's not a pubic road; it's a
parking area, if it's being used for something else. Bu't I'm
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not talking about road area; I'm just talking about if y!ou
have an event somewhere, of course, you can have cars there.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But we've kind of had an
agreement, sort of, that we don't deny citizens their right
to use their property.
MS. BAILEY: I just wanted to alert you to that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just because the dogs got
the prettiest, most expensive piece of property in the county
doesn't mean --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That could change.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You brave soul, you.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, are you okay --
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. It's --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- with no action?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We're not going to limit
anything from -- anybody from going through there or being in
there or having use and pleasure of that park, okay? We will
do what we can -- or those guys working off-duty security for
them or whatever will do what they can to help with their
event, but we're not going to limit the rest of the citizens.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll contact Kelly about a
sign.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The -- let's talk about
paying the bills. Is anyone interested in paying bills?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Are there any
questions for the Auditor?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Move we pay the bills.'!
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have a motion. Is there
a second?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's a second. And,
now, are there any questions to the Auditor with regards, to
the bills? Hearing none, all in favor, please say "aye.'."
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All opposed? None. Motion
carries. Budget amendments. Budget amendments?
MS. HARGIS: You have the budget amendments, and we
do have the grants in here that we talked about, the
reimbursable grants. They're the first two items on the'
budget amendments.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So this is really just!
putting it in so we can spend it, right?
MS. HARGIS: Yes, because we can't spend -- even
though it's a grant, we can't spend money or take money '!
without approval.
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1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Until we place it in the
2 general budget, okay.
3 ~ MS. HARGIS: The law enforcement grant is -- i~ a
4 ~ combination of the 198th D.A.'s office and the Sheriff's
5	Office. And the 198th has purchased --	or had to	send funds
6	for their share	to the software company	to be able	to get in
7	line, which was	$70,000. The grants --	I wouldn't	even '1 et
8	them discuss or	do anything until the g	rants were	approved by
9	the governor's	office and listed on the	web site,	and those
10	grants are acti	ve and have been on the	web site.	They were
11	put on the web	site -- that one was put	on on the	21st o';f
12 ~ January. The other one was put on the 26th of January.
13 I Normally, the governor does not approve these grants until
14	they're	on that	web site, and they are. So,	you know, ''
15	neither	of them	have -- have spent anything,	so I just need
16	you to	approve,	you know, placing them on ou	r budget, keeping
17	in mind	that these are probably going to be	100 percent
18	within	a 30-day	time frame. The governor's	office is pretty
19 ~ fast about reimbursing us.
20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Any other questions?
21 I have one. Request Number 3, the County Auditor.
22 MS. HARGIS: Yes. I didn't set up an overtime, line
23 item, and I -- I had one employee who did use it -- actually,
24 two. I've spoken with them about that. And --
25 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What was that for?
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MS. HARGIS: I think that Tess was asked to stay to
work on some stuff one night for some things that needed to
be done for the next day. And, generally speaking, we take
comp time in my office.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You couldn't give comp t',ime
instead of paying overtime?
MS. HARGIS: It was already in the system, and H.R.
told me I could not.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It can be taken out of the
MS. HARGIS: So --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would encourage you not to
do that any more.
MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir. I already spoke to my staff
about that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Item Number 4, the Coun~.y
Treasurer. Help me understand what I'm seeing here. I see
conferences at 4,500 and some few dollars. Books and
publications, dues for $100. And then budget to transfer
shows 125 on each of those lines.
MS. HARGIS: We're reducing her conference line
item by $125. We're increasing her books, publications, and
dues by 125.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You're reducing each one of
those lines?
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MS. HARGIS: No, I am reducing the first line,
because the first line then becomes 4,396.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right.
MS. HARGIS: The second line increases by the 125.
In other words, she's short in her books and publications.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: So she's asked to increase that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
MS. HARGIS: Same with mine. I had no moneys in
there, so I had to increase it. The parks is the same way.
~'~, We're reducing the building repairs by $50, and we're
I' increasing his courthouse insurance, because he didn't --
', there wasn't a line item for that. So, the thousand -- the
first line will decrease. The second line will increase!.
it COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, you know what? In the
back of my mind -- I think what's throwing me off here, in
the back of my mind, when you have the number and then tie
little brackets around them, to me that indicates that you're
reducing that. Is that not a -- is that not correct?
MS. HARGIS: No, in little brackets shows that„
those -- that that particular line item is in the hole by
that amount of money. In other words, they're over budget by
that amount of money.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'll do my best o
remember that, but if not, I'll ask you these questions
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1	again.		
2		MS. HARGTS:	Okay. We'll work -- actually, my
3	staff and	I went over	this, because I wanted to put that on
4	the middle	section. S	o they said the software, the way they
- 5	set it up,	works that	way. So, we'll go back and -- and --
6	because I	had the same	question y'all did. Why isn't the
7	center having the red	lines? So, we'll see how we can fix
8	it.		
9		COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Okay. Any other questions
10	on --		
11		THE CLERK:	We need a motion.
12		COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: -- budget amendment
13	requests?	Do I have a	motion for approval?
14		COMMISSIONER	WILLIAMS: So moved.
15		COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Second.
16		COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: I have a motion. Is there a
17	second?		
18		COMMISSIONER	OEHLER: Second.
19		COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: All in favor, please sad
20	"aye."		
21		(The motion	carried by unanimous vote.)
22		COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Motion carries. What d~ we
23	call this	thing, Direc	t Item Register?
24		MS. HARGIS:	Yes.
25		COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN: Tell us about that.
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1 MS. HARGIS: Again, those are -- those are the'
2 checks that are being requested that would either have a late
3 charge billed to them, or they're a travel reimbursement or a
4 fee that the people need -- or conference fee that they deed
5 to be mailed in. Because we don't have credit cards and.
6 things of that nature. So, those are all normally utilities.
7 You have some for licenses here. Most of the time, these are
8 travel reimbursements. We've had some people that -- you
9 know, some of the clerks that go out and purchase things';
10 because they've been asked to do that, and they don't have
11 the funds available, so you try and pay those back within a
12 week, rather than have them wait two and a half weeks for
13 their money.
14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: May I ask you a questioh?
15 MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There are three folks here
17 ~ that are getting their firearms renewal, and all three of
18 I them are 216th Adult Probation.
19	MS.	HARGIS: You don'	t have to approve those. They
20	just come out	on the report; we	don't have any way to delete
21	them. And we'	ve always run all	the 216th checks through.:
22 court, regardless of whether you approved them or not.
23 Probation, we've always run them through you.
24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask my question nbw?
25 MS. HARGIS: Yeah.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is not county
taxpayers' money?
MS. HARGIS: No, it is not.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is 216th?
MS. HARGIS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you. And tie
same for the state inspection on -- oh, that's a vehicle'--
wait a minute. Hold on. Now, Mr. Brown here that had his
vehicle inspected --
MS. HARGIS: That --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the same thing? ';The
216th pays for that too?
MS. HARGIS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's not his car, is it?
MS. HARGIS: No, sir, it's not.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
There's a lot of them here.
MS. HARGIS: There are a lot of conferences coming
up in the month of March and April.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There were even some ih
~ February.
MS. HARGIS: Mm-hmm.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's old Bruce Oehlejr.
Where's he going?
I~ COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Already been.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, you've already been.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Over there to what Bill ,Stacy
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: A & M.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Far cry from Mecca.
MS. HARGIS: Just for information purposes, and
we're going to get it clarified, I was given this application
this morning. This is, again, just for information purposes.
When we're building our annex, as you recall, our Road aid
Bridge Department is going to be doing the site work, and in
order to use water from the city of Kerrville, you have ~o
get a temporary permit to put in a fire hydrant. So, we may
have to have that run through. It's refundable, but it'd a
deposit of 2,750. So, just F.Y.I.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. Is there a ''
motion to approve the Direct Item Register?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Motion and second. All in
favor, please say "aye."
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Motion carries. What i
this? This is an audit report.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is this just F.Y.I., or is
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this for a motion?
MS. HARGIS: It's just part of your group reports
or your -- that you -- your monthly reports.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, is there any late balls?
MS. HARGIS: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I have no -- here we
are. Is this the -- they're listed here. Thank you so much.
We have monthly reports from J.P. 1, District Clerk, District
Clerk amended, J.P. 4, Constable Number 3, Kerr County
Treasurer for January 2010, and Road and Bridge Department.
Do I hear a motion to approve -- or accept these monthly,
reports?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So moved.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. All in favor,
please say "aye."
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Motion carries. Thank you.
Need to sign it? All right. Do we have any reports froTn
Commissioners on their liaison duties?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nothing, Your Honor.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's better. That's a lot
better. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Nothing, Your Honor-ness';.
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-oh. Just sign this"and
hush. You got your handcuffs? We can put an end to this.
Reports from elected officials? Other than the Sheriff?
MS. PIEPER: None.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You ready? Jail population
report. 198th, there's 28 pending trial. 216th has 38.
County Court at Law, 23. And we are finally back down to 18
females, so we're back in a lot better shape with our
females.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What did you do with them?
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: 136 overall population this
~ morning.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 136 is a good number.
SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a good number.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's good.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good. Congratulations.'
Thank y'all for your hard work. Is there any reports from
boards, commissions, and/or committees? City/County
projects, et cetera? This Court will be in recess till
1:30 p.m., when we'll take up the matter with the City o
Kerrville.
(Recess taken from 12:21 p.m. to 1:35 p.m.)
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1 (Judge Tinley and all Commissioners were present.)
2 JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, let's come back to order, if
3 we might, from the lunch recess. We have a 1:30 timed item,
4 Item 17. Our colleagues from the City are here to give us a
5 presentation by the City of Kerrville on proposed Certificate
6 of Convenience and Necessity for water application to the
7 Texas Commission on Environmental Quality. We have Mr. Todd
8 Parton, City Manager, and Mr. Charlie Hastings, Director;of
9 Public Works here.
10 MR. HASTINGS: Thank you.
11 JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you for being here. We
12 appreciate you coming.
13 MR. HASTINGS: This is the Power Point that I have
14 up there on the wall, okay? There you go. And if anyone
15 else would like one --
16 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: See, we have to give one'to
17 the clerk.
18 MR. HASTINGS: Okay, very good. Here's some more.
19 MS. BAILEY: Charlie, do you have an extra one?
20 MR. HASTINGS: Yes, I do. I'm going to put these
21 right here, if anyone else would like one. Kerrville has
22 proposed a Certificate of Convenience and Necessity for
23 water. And what is a certificate of convenience and
24 Necessity? It's a state water purveyor license. What ids the
25 City's interest? The City has three main interests. Number
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growth is tied back to water and its availability, and that.
if you want to be able to sustain a water supply, you're.:
going to need to build a plan for it. You can't plan for it
if you don't know what you're planning for. And, of course,
safety, firefighting capabilities, specifications as far'; as
water pressure and volume, et cetera, are what's being
implied there. And what is the process? From this point
forward, we're revising our CCN map, the service area that
we've outlined. It's due April the 15th. We got a little
bit of an extension. It was originally due on March 5th!. We
had our meeting the other day to discuss it, and we asked for
a little more time from T.C.E.Q., 'cause we want to make sure
our map is pretty solid when it goes. If Kerrville is
granted this proposed CCN, it won't affect private wells!. If
you have a private well or if you want to drill a private
well, it's not going to affect your ability to do that. You
still go through the same governmental authorities, so
governmental authorities are not affected. The things that
the City of Kerrville does in its authority is going to be
separate from this CCN. We'll have the authority to sell
water in that area, but it doesn't supersede any other
authorities that the County might have, or anyone else that
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-- let's say the -- regulating septic systems. Again, this
is a water CCN. It's not about wastewater at all; it's X11
about water.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Charlie, I have a question: on
private wells.
MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The people wanting to drib
wells in the future, you said that they can do that?
MR. HASTINGS: That's right.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: They'll be subject to the lot
', size spacing of Headwaters.
MR. HASTINGS: They're -- they're subject to
Headwaters' --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Headwaters' rules.
MR. HASTINGS: -- rules, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there -- I have been told,
and I've never read the CCN documents, that some CCN's do
prohibit private wells. Is there -- is there a way to do it,
or -- I mean, 'cause -- is it --
MR. HASTINGS: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in this document? So -- but
the document that you get can't be changed. I mean, if a.t's
approved, that's fixed. That's set in stone, that that
cannot be changed later.
MR. HASTINGS: The CCN? CCN's can change.
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COMMISSIONER LETZ: The private well issue.
MR. HASTINGS: The private well issue? I don'
know what you're referring to.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. I'm just -- I mean:,
MR. HASTINGS: But the application we've turned in,
that is not our intent. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- and if you're granted
one, there's no way for it to be changed that you're aware
of?
MR. HASTINGS: There is -- a CCN can be changed
after it's been approved. CCN's change, expand. They get
changed.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the private well issueis
what I'm talking about, cannot be changed.
MR. HASTINGS: I don't know what the private well
issue is.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess, let me rephrase it. I
have -- one of the concerns I have heard is that if it --- the
CCN, if it's approved, the applicants -- any applicants, but
in this case City of Kerrville, could prohibit private wills
in the future. There's a mechanism to do that through a CCN.
And I don't -- I'm just trying to clarify if that is -- if it
can be changed or if it cannot be changed in the future,; that
aspect of the CCN.
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MR. HASTINGS: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Charlie, before you go on.
MR. HASTINGS: Yes, sir?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Your Number 2 bullet there,
Governmental authority not affected, I want to draw you out
on this a little bit. I'm going to read to you from
Mr. Parton's letter to Judge Tinley dated January 11th, and
on the first page, in the fourth paragraph, you talk about,
"A CCN is a license issued by T.C.E.Q. that gives the CCN
holder the exclusive right to provide retail potable water
utility service to customers within the area of the CCN."'
Going on a little further in the paragraph, it says, "Thus,
if the city CCN is granted, no investor-owned utility, such
as Aqua, Texas, for example, or governmental entity would be
permitted by state law to provide potable water to customers
for compensation within the CCN of the city." This is a'
quote from the letter the City Manager wrote to Judge Tinley.
Question. How does that affect U.G.R.A. and any of its
intentions for future use of water in the ET J, or outside the
ETJ?
MR. HASTINGS: The -- it would affect them in that
the CCN, whoever it's issued to, is the only entity that!can
'~, sell water.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Except, Charlie, if
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1	there's --	let me	butt	in, if	I might.	That	-- that	can be a
2	negotiated	issue,	and	we have	said this	from	day one,	that --
3 and working particularly with the Center Point area, we are
4 -- are dealing with U.G.R.A. If they want a portion of ghat,
5 we'll work that out with them. This is not to exclude them
6 in what they're doing at Center Point, period.
7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you.
8 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Then why wouldn't that have
9 been excluded in your original application?
10 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: We don't know yet what their
11 area of service is. They're studying it right now. They've
12 got the engineers working. We don't know.
13 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Okay.
14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If I can follow up on that, to
15 whoever, assuming U.G.R.A., for whatever reason, opts ou't of
16 being the water provider in the Center Point area, but the
17 W.C. & I.D. in Comfort opts in, and they can expand into'; Kerr
18 I County without any problem, and that's part of the -- an'
19	integral part of	the	whole east	Kerr	County	project, is	the
20	same thing going	to	hold true,	that	that area can then	get
21 excluded for whoever the operator of the Center Point project
22 is? Or whoever is the water supplier, that that could
23 then -- you know, it's -- that's a very important part to
24 that whole project, to make sure that there's -- it's based
25 on customers. And if some of the customers are excluded";,
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it's going to really hurt the economic viability of the
project.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Our intention, Jonathan, is
We want to be a
benefit to them. And, so, to -- I don't know that to be;a
fact. We haven't talked to the people down there, so I don't
know. It's really dependent on what U.G.R.A. comes up with.
Then we go to the next step. So, I don't know how to answer
that at this point.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I guess my question is, tahat
is the emergency to get all this done before you have alb the
facts from all the -- from U.G.R.A. and -- and the Center
Point wastewater and water issue?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: We can --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: What's the emergency? What's
the hurry?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: The -- there's no real
emergency, except we have not been able to get T.C.E.Q. to
help facilitate the necessity, the safety, and those kinds of
things. They ignore it. Today, a private company can go in
and set up a CCN through T.C.E.Q., put substandard stuff in.
Ultimately, what we're doing will try -- our whole objective,
in a single sentence, is to save the taxpayers money, period.
If the T.C.E.Q. would step forward and say you're going to
put in quality that will -- for firefighting protection, we
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what is now the -- not in the ETJ, which is part of the
county, you don't have the density to make a water -- a
municipal water system standard cost-effective.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Two issues.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You don't have the density of
houses in places.
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COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Two issues in that respect.
Under the current development of rules within the ETJ, we
still have the 5-acre minimum. It's staying there. And'in
that case, that's set up so that the individuals can drill
their own private wells. There is no requirement in that for
a public water system. That's issue number one. So, that's
not going away. That's still a part of it. It depends on
the developer, what it is they're going to put in. If they
want to get more yield out of their property and they want to
reduce their tract size below 5 acres, then they're going to
have to put in a central water system, and that's when this
will take effect. Sorry, Charlie.
MR. HASTINGS: That's all right. Okay. Again;, the
application that Kerrville is making is for water only. It's
not for wastewater, and it doesn't have any bearing on septic
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1 ~ systems. This is what the original application looked like a
2 ~ year ago -- well, less than a year ago, back in about
3 ~ October, when we turned it in to the State of Texas. It'was
4 for this area, and this area is a 2-mile buffer around the
5 existing city limits. And there's white spaces in therei.
6 Those are existing CCN's. This is what the map looked like.
7 These were all the different property owners who sent ini'
8 requests to opt out. There was a deadline of November for
9 people to request to opt out, of last year, and this map'
10 represents all of those people. It was about 176 letters
11 that we received, and about 176 people, and then each pexson
12 owned -- some of them owned one tract; some of them owned
13 multiple. And this -- everything that's in green was
14 25 acres or larger, and the State of Texas said if someone
15 has a parcel and they meet the deadline, they can opt ou't
16 automatically. There's nothing you can do about it. Anti if
17 -- if the parcel was less than 25, they could request to~opt
18 I out. And you can see the red ones up there. There's not
19 ~ very many. It doesn't represent a whole lot of area or a
20 ~ whole lot of properties. And so a couple weeks ago, at a
21	Council meeting, we	presented this to	Council with	a
22	recommendation that	they -- they grant	the request	from
23 anyone who met the deadline to opt out, that that request be
24 granted, and they granted that. So, when they did, our
25 application looked like this. We asked T.C.E.Q. for more
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time to go back and potentially revise this map a little bit
more. Our deadline is April the 15th, and we anticipate
taking this to Council in the next few weeks to have them --
so we can resolve a few more issues. For example, there'is a
water service area -- a water provider right now who never
filed for a CCN, okay? There's a couple of those system
that are out there, and so it didn't show up. T.C.E.Q.
didn't catch it. We didn't catch it. But we've since been
able to have conversations with them, with all the
conversations we've had, all the public meetings, and weli're
going to get that removed. And T.C.E.Q.'s going to want', us
to have that removed. And so we'll be going back to Cou3~cil
to get that resolved, and maybe clean up some of these
outlying areas where -- where there's some islands out there
I~! that were created. Are there any other questions?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a question for'
Mr. Parton whenever -- whenever the appropriate time is.!
MR. HASTINGS: Now is the time. That's the end of
the Power Point.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to go back to the
letter that Commissioner Williams made reference to,
Mr. Parton. Paragraph one, two, three, "The City is also
trying..." You're not following. The second sentence starts
with, "If property owners opt out of the CCN, as they
currently have the right to do, the City will not include
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1	those	properties	as	part of the	long-term	water	supply pi;lan.
2	Thus,	there will	be	no guarantee	that the	City	would approve
3	a request	for water services in the future." What	I'm
4	hearing --	what I'm hearing there is that you can	opt out,
5	and that's	a cool thing to do if you so choose to	do, but if
6	you do, we	may not ever provide you with services	any more.
7	Is that wh	at you're saying?	
8		MR. PARTON: What we're saying is, this	-- one'~,'of
9 the reasons behind the CCN is to allow the City to ultimately
10 plan and look to develop an ultimate supply of water. I
11 there's a CCN, we know what our service area looks like. If
12 you opt out, there's no guarantee from the City that we'11 be
13 able to bring you in at some point when you opt -- when you
14 decide to try to opt in into the future. So, we're working,
15 if the CCN application is successful, to determine how much
16 water we need to generate to serve that ultimate area, and
17 ~ any additional demands that come in after that will justlihave
18 I to be considered on a case-by-case basis. There will be'no
19 guarantee that we can provide services.
20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thank you.
21 ~ COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I'm looking at the map.
22 A large portion of what's in the CCN is existing subdivisions
23 with individuals wells, or small tracts. I'm looking at''
24 largely between Harper Road and Highway 16. I think that's
25 almost all subdivision up there. And then some of the other
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areas I know further -- Hill Country Ranch Estates is shown
there. What's the purpose of including property that's in --
or in existing subdivisions that are small lots that --'I
'~ mean, in here? Is it ever going to be subdivisions, or
further subdivisions, in large part, 'cause a lot of theme
have deed restrictions on them. And it's just like, it '' --
what's the reason for including all those tracts?
MR. PARTON: Well, ultimately, we can't ever say
never. We don't know. We can't predict with any certainty
exactly what happens into the future, firstly. Properties
can be subdivided. Deed restrictions can change. All those
things can happen. The other thing is that if you have an
existing system, existing private system, it's not impacted
by the CCN application. I'd like to go back to, I think,
your question earlier, and that was can the private well;..
issue be changed later on? The CCN application is for retail
service. It's -- it's to establish the entity that has the
right to be able to make retail sales within that CCN area.
So, if you're a private system on a private well, or you;'re a
wholesaler, this CCN doesn't affect you. What it does affect
is systems that are going to be community systems where
retail water's being sold, and those are the types of things
that would be impacted. So, the -- the issue of an
individual who is within an area that is on a 25-acre tract
that has a private well is not going to be impacted by this
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continue to do that. What it would affect is if those
parcels did get subdivided, did have community systems that
came on that were intended -- intending to make retail sales,
then they would need to fall under the provisions of the CCN.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Say, as an example, one of',
these lots -- you know, 10-acre lot said -- well, they dr~n't
do it 10 acres, but one of these small tracts, 25 acres br
less, goes ahead and decides they want to put in a water'';
system, and they're way up there in the far north part of
that along Highway 16 somewhere. They'll be a CCN. How are
they going to be treated for putting in a smaller than 15
connection water system for five homes? Are they going Ito
have to build it to city standards?
MR. PARTON: Well, they would have to develop !that
to whatever subdivision standards are in place today.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The water part -- the water
issue, the CCN part of it only, not subdivision. Just the --
MR. PARTON: It would fall under the City's
guidelines. So, if they're going to come in, develop a
system, the -- the caveat to that is that we have to evaluate
what their system's going to be. If they're going to come
in, put in a system less than 15 connections, and it's simply
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for the purpose of working together to develop a private
water system, they're not selling water to one another, I
suppose that that's a situation, again, where the CCN isn't
going to prohibit that from happening. But they will have to
put it in to meet the appropriate minimum specifications' for
the water system.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But the appropriate minimums
under the CCN, or the appropriate minimums of T.C.E.Q.? ';
MR. PARTON: Well, probably both. It's going to be
primarily T.C.E.Q. The City would also have those design
specifications.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, but, I mean, Bruce earlier
said -- and I agree with Bruce. You know, the -- if you're
going under T.C.E.Q. rules, I wouldn't use the word
"substandard," but it's not going to meet the city fire flow
requirements. And I guess what I'm getting at is, at what
point does triggering -- is it triggered to go to the city
fire flow requirements? What number of connections or lot --
~ or --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Lot size.
MR. PARTON: We've got a rural standard that -
that applies, that says under a rural standard, if you
qualify as a rural subdivision, you can come in; fire flow
criteria don't apply. And so if -- if you follow the logic
of what you're proposing, it sounds like you're talking a
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under that kind of development scenario, it's more than
likely that the fire flow criteria are not going to apply.
What happens is, when you have subdivisions that don't
qualify, that have community systems that get put into place
where fire flow is a requirement, then it has to meet th~!at
design criteria. And what happens under the rules right'; now,
without a -- without a CCN, without a municipal CCN over;
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that, the system is designed. The system design includes
provisions for fire flow protection, and so the fire flow is
there. System's there, the pressure's there, the volume'is
there. They can then make a decision on their own,
unilaterally, then to determine if their system is no lodger
available for firefighting. And in that case, now you have a
subdivision that has multiple lots, that are on a system that
was designed and built for fire flow, and now the water
operator decided I'm not going to provide fire flow, 'cause I
don't want to accept perceived responsibility for liability
for the fire flow.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that part of it.
I understand, you know, the reason for it. I'm not, you'
know, against it. I'm just trying to figure out at what)
point the economics enter into it, in my mind, as to thee.
trigger point for having to put in municipal-type fire f~.ow.
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If there -- and you're talking -- I'm not talking about !35
acres or larger. I'm talking about someone who's got 10
acres and wants to put in four lots.
MR. PARTON: Again, it would fall under those'.
guidelines, the very same guidelines that we're working on
right now jointly between the City and the County. Our:-
anticipation is that those similar guidelines -- and we've
talked about when we hit those benchmarks for requiring ;fire
flow. Those are the same things that we looked at. And; part
of the whole basis of what we've contemplated, if it's a!
rural subdivision where it's rural in nature, the roadway
sections, the drainage sections, and the water systems are
treated in a rural situation, we're recognizing the very;
factors that you're talking about, where you talk about the
relative cost to install infrastructure as related to the
overall density and the type of projects that you're talking
about. So, if it is a rural project, we're putting standards
together right now that address a rural subdivision standard
that goes into play that covers everything, including the
fire flow question.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, what I'm hearing is that
this -- the decision is pushed back to the ETJ issue. And to
me, they're separate, because the -- you carry the CCN far
beyond the current ETJ. And I guess what I'm trying to
figure out is, at what point is this going to have an
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1 economic impact on the public? If there's a three-lot
2 subdivision and someone is going -- you know, say Lee Vo~elkel
3 wants to put in a water system to serve three lots. Is he
4 going to be able to do that under something similar to t'he
5 current scenario, which is not a -- you know, meets the !!
6 standards from a state law standpoint of T.C.E.Q., but dines
7 not meet the standards of a municipality for fire flow
8 standpoint. All I'm talking about is fire flow.
9 MR. PARTON: Well --
10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And that's my concern.
11 MR. PARTON: Sure.
12 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Let me throw another wrinkle
13 in this. A part of --
14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't need another one. I
15 don't want another wrinkle; I want a --
16 JUDGE TINLEY: Solution.
17 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Part of the problem lies'not
18 only in fire, per se, but firefighting, fire prevention... For
19 example, if -- and we're contracted with the County to go out
20 in certain areas and fight fires. If our units go out there
21 and all these hydrants are painted black, they can carry only
22 a certain amount of water. Now, if they're limited to the
23 water they can carry, they've got to make a decision; are we
24 going to save that house, or are we going to let it burn--, but
25 keep it from spreading? They don't have enough water to!do
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they get more water? If they hook up to one of these black
fire hydrants, and for whatever reason, there's not adequate
water in there, then you got all kinds of problems created.
You can collapse the lines. You can suck bad stuff into";the
-- and foul the system. You can suck water out of the hit
water heaters and burn them up, and then who's liable?
That's the problem with that side of it.
The other problem is that the -- when we are -~ are
looking at -- and I called several insurance companies,
because I wanted to know what the premium, if you would,;. the
difference in rate between a building in the city and a
building outside of the city, what the difference in the,'rate
was. Well, what I found out on that, it depended on distance
from a fire station, depended on the equipment that was
available, depended on the roads, depended on all kinds of
stuff. And the premium -- the best you could get for
close-in, easy access, well-built, was about 35 percent
premium. Other areas went as high as 300 percent. So,
what's happening is, in reality, the people living out there,
even by choice, even though they know that it's more, they're
paying for fire protection, but not getting it.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I would challenge that a'
little bit.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well --
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have contracted one truck. That's it.	one
Tha	thing
t's all	is you' only
you have
3 contracted with the County to respond. Our volunteers get
4 there a lot of times a lot quicker than you do, and the y, have
5 a lot more capability and a lot better equipment, because
6 that's what they're used to fighting.
7 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, I don't disagree with
8 that, Mr. Oehler, but my -- my point is, they're under the
9 same thing. I don't think they realize at this point the
10 liability that they're taking on.
11 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, they have a lot of
12 other sources that they use for water than what you're aware
13 of.
14 COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, they may have, and it
15 would take that, tanker trucks and that sort of thing. but
16 the --
17	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: We have one,	and	it's
18	available.		
19	COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah, but one	may	not be
20	adequate, depending on the fire.		
21	COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It does. But	the	thing is,
22	people that live out -- I mean, we're talking	out	way beyond
23	what you're talking here, and really, it's --	y'a	ll don't
24	provide fire protection in the ETJ you have n	ow,	other than
25	one truck. Volunteers take care of it.		
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COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: That's true.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: So, I mean, I can see --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: They're under the same --
they have the same liability problems that the City or
anybody else have that go out there. If they hook onto one
of the black hydrants and there doesn't happen to be enough
water, for whatever reason, all kinds of problems can be'
created.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I understand. But, I mean,
there -- it's --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: The -- I don't like the scare
tactic thing. I don't think a lot of people out there do.
', COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: I don't either, but the -- I
', mean, that's -- that's the facts of the matter. That's --
you don't know.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: It's all a matter of opinion.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: And my opinion just happens
to be different than yours.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: One of the things -- last time
we met on this topic, you brought up that same information on
fire insurance or homeowners' insurance, and I went out and
checked. I checked with the company that writes 40 percent
of the policies for Kerr County. Their rates are identical
inside the city limits versus outside the city limits, and
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one -- do not have the capability or the means to go into
every community in the nation and do all this detailed
analysis. They average it nationwide, state-wide, in Texas
anyway. There's a rate in Comfort, there's a rate for 78013,
78 -- whatever Center Point is, a rate for Kerrville, Huht,
Ingram. A Tierra Linda homeowner pays the exact same rate
for their home as someone who lives in Riverhills. Same
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, I don't know which
company you talked to.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: State Farm.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Okay. I talked to two
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it doesn't make any
difference. I think we need to be careful in making these
statements that you're going to save these homeowners 30 to
300 percent of the their insurance, when it may happen for
understand the fire issue. My question still is, at what
point is a property owner going to have to and want to pt~t in
a small municipal system? At what point is that property
owner going to have to build the system to meet the
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specifications of a city water system versus the T.C.E..
specifications they're currently using -- used to? And
saying you know, is it going to be two? Is it going to be
five lots? Is it going to be 100?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: It's not gauged to lots.
It's gauged to subdivisions of that -- of that area.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: All of them will be subject to
it?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: And -- technically, yes,!'but
we -- by holding that the CCN, we can release an area, just
like we were talking about with U.G.R.A.; we can release that
area if it is obvious that it's prohibitive for either party
to do.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, I think the -- I mean,
that's -- this is a huge point in my mind, because I think
what y'all are doing is very good, and I wish the City of
Kerrville would have done it a long time ago, offered to--
start to offer a way to get certain areas off of ground Li
water. Y'all have the only surface water available, but I
think it's overly burdensome. That could all be done
voluntarily. There's no reason for a CCN for the City of
Kerrville to start selling water, being a water wheeler to
people in the same service area or larger, you know, if
people want to be part of it. My problem comes in when you
go -- when it's not clear to the public up front. They ~o in
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and put in a three-home subdivision, and it's going to have
this whole CCN.
The only other point -- then I'll be quiet. T'he
only other point is, I would be much -- "happier" is probably
the best word, if the Center Point area would be excluded,
and it could be added back in if needed, rather than have the
', County or Kendall County Water Improvement District or
U.G.R.A. have to come back, go to the City and and negotiate
to get out of it. This project is ongoing. It is a very
high likelihood that it's going to go forward. The Statie's
invested a lot of money. This County's invested a lot of
money. And this is going to be an impediment in my mindl,
because you have talked about U.G.R.A. I'm not certain
U.G.R.A. is going to be the person who's administering or
working in that system, and I think that it needs to be
excluded at this point. And then, if its needs to come back
in later, certainly the CCN can be amended to include that
area. But I see this as causing a -- getting a huge -- or a
pretty significant part of that service area, which is going
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to be needed to justify this whole project. It's just going
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm glad Jonathan came back
it's defined as essentially the Center Point region within
78010, essentially, and it goes eastward following the
corridor to Comfort. Now, there are other subdivisions'
important to us. We don't need to be confronted by
unforeseen impediments, and this could be an unforeseen!
impediment. And I'd rather deal with it outright now and
have -- and know that we're not going to be confronted by
unforeseen impediments; i.e., this, when we're moving
forward. Because if U.G.R.A. decides, after their
feasibility study is completed, that they wish not to do'
that, then we're going to find another way to do that, and
the County will be the initiator of it, working with probably
the W.C. & I.D. out of Comfort. Now, that means that they
can come back this way and provide water, and we'll work out
those other issues. Obviously, there are issues we have to
work out. But we're -- we want to stay within the parameter
of who's going to -- or how are we going to accomplish this.
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And I would -- I would much prefer that we do not have phis
as a potential unintended consequence or impediment to our
moving forward on this project.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Your point is well-taken.
And I will say to you that our position is not to be an ''
impediment, but a -- a part of the ongoing constructive':'
package. That is our -- our whole point in doing this. For
too long, we have not -- we have ignored these problems t hat
exist, and I think it's imperative that we work together and
that we improve these areas. We are the only supplier i1n the
county that has the conjunctive use, and we are working very
I
hard to expand that capability, and this is just a step !in
that process. There is -- the U.G.R.A. was not going to be
the operator out there. They were going to wheel waterto
these other operators, which is fine. We've got no problem
wholesaling water.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to ask that
question, because I thought Todd said -- I didn't mean ~o
interrupt you, but he said wholesalers are not affected.,
That -- that's the point you were trying to make at this:
point?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they determine they
wanted to be a wholesaler to other purveyors?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah, that's not a problem.
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COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then this doesn't --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: No, it is not a problem.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it is a potential
entity, because that's going to be driven by connections;.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yeah. Well, they -- they
have -- "they" being anybody that's going to provide wader to
the public, is going to have to have a supply and a treatment
and a distribution system.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: And all this does is prepare
for that.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, no, all this does is say
you have to talk to the City of Kerrville before you can! do
that system in Center Point.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because if it's Comfort, they
have to get additional to come into Kerr County, W C. & I.D.,
but what's going to have to happen if this goes through as-is
is that before they can even talk to the -- or put it in'
their economics, the customer base in Center Point, they're
going to have to come to the City of Kerrville and ask to
be -- this area be excluded. You're adding another whole
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step into the process, which is already extremely
complicated, for no reason, when the area could be added in
later.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Why not take it out later?
Same difference.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, 'cause one has to --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: No.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's a whole lot diffe';rent.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather see it taken out
now.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Take it out now and put it in
writing.
MR. PARTON: If I can make one point regarding;
that, that proposed map of the Center Point service areal
comes right up and maybe incorporates or includes part of the
existing Kerrville city limits. Kerrville has water limes
that go out to the airport right now, so what you're
suggesting is we -- we cut out that whole area. The plan
that evaluates -- the Center Point plan, excuse me, has
already been delayed now. The original study was supposed to
have Phase I completed in April. That Phase I deadline has
now been pushed to August. So --
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whose Phase I? Yours or
ours?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: No.
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MR. PARTON: Center Point plan, the U.G.R.A. study
to determine the water service for the Center Point area.
we're both working on the second phase right now.
MR. PARTON: I'm just going by what I've been told.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be that as it may.
MR. PARTON: But the bottom line is, this system,
which may or may not happen, you've got other CCN holders who
would have to agree to turn off their wells and take their
water through this proposal. You've got a lot of other
things that have to happen in order to voluntarily conform,
as that has to come forward to make the Center Point plan
work. And we're on feasibility to determine whether it's
even financially feasible at this point, is my understanding.
So, what you're suggesting is that we take an area that's
immediately abutting the city limits right now, in --
including the existing ETJ, and take that out of this CCN
application that's there, on a system that we don't know,
number one, if it's feasible. Number two, realistically, if
it's going to be able to happen and come together. And 'if
this proposal falls apart, then if I heard correctly, the
25 ~ plan is then to look at other alternatives to be able to'
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continue to provide within this same area. And what we're
saying is, there's a lot of unknowns regarding that
particular proposal. And the discussions we've had with. the
U.G.R.A. Board, too, has been the fact that we'd be willing
to work -- we're not here to prevent that system from
happening. We're not here to prevent that program. But, on
the other hand, there's a lot of unknowns out there with
regard to that proposal.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What we're saying is U.G.R.A.
is not the only player in that package. There's a lot a''f
others that there's been a lot of discussion, and the
economics -- one of the things that helps the economics 'is if
you add Comfort in, which is a huge help to Kerr County',
groundwater if we can get Comfort on the surface water.',
That's -- and that is a very -- and those discussions have
been going on for two years. So, I mean, yes, there's things
to happen. I just think that this is another unnecessary
bump, for no reason. It can -- the CCN's can be amended. It
can be added.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: That's provided that another
CCN isn't put in there, and/or the existing CCN's expanded.
If that happens, it can't be expanded. And then you get back
into the same thing we've got right now. If --
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, no. That -- that'
members of boards and councils and commissioners change, and
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I Court.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah. I think it's best that
we try to get things in writing up front before things get to
the point to where they can't --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's all -- if you want 'to
include it, give us -- if it's requested to come out, it
comes out, without months and years of negotiations like, so
many of our negotiations have happened. Because I just 'don't
see -- I don't see the down side to the City's pledging here
just to allow that project to go forward if necessary. And
that area gets opted out -- Center Point area gets opted out
automatically if we ask.
MR. PARTON: One of the -- to that point -- I"m
sorry, Judge. To that point, the initial conversation we had
with U.G.R.A. -- we're going to be on the U.G.R.A. agenda
coming up here in March, but the -- that was the preliminary
direction that we were talking to U.G.R.A. about, is coming
up with a memorandum of understanding about what would happen
if their project were to be a successful project.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If the project what?
MR. PARTON: If that Center Point project were to
be a successful project, that we were working out a
memorandum of agreement as to working with them to amend our
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CCN. Or we could even -- we don't even have to amend the
I CCN. We could also do a mutual service agreement where we
say, hey, you know, in this area, that we'll agree that they
will be the service provider for that area. So, there's a
couple other options you have with regard to some
flexibility, provided that the Center Point project does'.,
prove out, and the steps are made to get it initiated.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it would be helpfu'1 to
have it expanded to include the county. ',
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: To what?
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Expand that agreement to
include the county.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, that's fine. We want
the -- you all and anyone else who is involved in this t~~,o be
-- to come together and -- and come up with a solution.'
JUDGE TINLEY: If these discussions and all these
now unanswered questions have no other effect than to cajll
attention to the -- the 1-mile ETJ issue that we have
outstanding right now, which has been outstanding for -- five
years, probably? Legislature first mandated it --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we had an agreement,' sort
of, for a while.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, but I think that's job ore.
We know that exists, and I think getting that resolved would
be at least a half step, if not a giant step into resoling
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some of these issues. Because a lot of these issues mesh
together. Even though they're -- they're separate
considerations, they mesh together. So, I think it juste
gives further force to the -- to the need to get this ETJ
thing resolved promptly, and then let's move to the next
step.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: I will assure you, we want
that also. And as a -- a side note to this, Mr. Letz and I
have a meeting on Wednesday to see what we can do to wrap
that part of it up.
JUDGE TINLEY: Hopefully at our next meeting, we
can see a proposed agreement, as can your Council.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Suits me.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I'm holding my breath.
(Laughter.)
', COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's two proposed competing
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documents that are being looked at. One's drafted by the
City, one being drafted by the County. So, there's -- we're
still a long ways apart on that agreement. But we're --
we're making progress slowly.
JUDGE TINLEY: Not going to happen if you don't
work at it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: I still think -- and I see a
question there. I still have -- at some point, I really
would like to hear an answer to the question I had about what
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COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: The initiation of a
subdivision.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: But how much -- but it
doesn't -- shouldn't that include density?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yes.
i COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If you don't have density in
a subdivision, a city water -- you know, spec water syst',em is
not feasible or affordable.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Well, this is part of our --
the ETJ and the City's current agreement and ordinance.
Five acres or more, there is no requirement for a city water
system.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: That's still not high
density. You get less than -- you get 4 and a half acre''s,
and you put two houses on it, that's not density. That '~,
doesn't justify it, in my mind, a city spec water system for
fire flow.
MR. PARTON: You have to have a minimum of 5 acres
to put your own well and your own on-site septic, so 5 acres
is the benchmark that we use.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You still don't have enough
density to justify a system like you're proposing.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: If you have less than
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Your name, sir?
MR. ADAMS: My name's Stanley Adams.
JUDGE TINLEY: All right, Mr. Adams.
MR. ADAMS: And I don't want to interrupt what''s
going on here, but since it's -- we may be reaching a point
where the discussion shuts down, and before it does, I have
some questions to ask.
JUDGE TINLEY: I think now is your opportunity, if
it relates to the City's application for a CCN. Is that'why
you're here, sir?
MR. ADAMS: I'm a little hard of hearing. What did
JUDGE TINLEY: Are you here because of the City's
application --
MR. ADAMS: Absolutely. ',
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay, fire away. These gentlemen
are here to answer those questions.
MR. ADAMS: Well, I'm completely ignorant on where
this situation stands, but since I first heard of it through
third parties, I've had some concerns. And I guess number
one is, I'll state I've spent a fair portion of my life 'in
the development business, and I know that it's not cheap to
install water lines in the hills like we have around here.
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And first question is -- is whether the real purpose of this
is for fire prevention, or that's the -- the public need that
would be necessary to make it fly, or whether it's for
establishing more subdivisions out in the hills about us.
And -- or third is whether it's to take water out of that
like that. And my -- I would strongly -- I have a strong
difference of opinion with some folks over the adequacy bf
the existing supply of water for the city. I think we proved
that at times it can be inadequate, and that aquifers, as San
But, you know, question number one, is the -- is
the real intent for this expansion of the ETJ? As I alluded
to earlier, it's going to be -- to do anything with watelr in
terms of a system is going to be expensive, somewhere between
expensive and damn expensive and prohibitively expensive,
and negative so-and-so I can be on occasion -- oh, that may
be a colloquialism -- what if the City, you know, gets into
something that it bites off, and as our times become less
affluent, you'll find that they've bitten off more than '.they
can chew. Then, you know, where does that leave everybody?
If I were the City, one of the great temptations, I think,
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had brought before us a question of a developer that had'a
private water system, and every time he got a divorce, tY~e
water rates in the subdivision went up. (Laughter.)
And, anyway, then if the water district that was
organized by the county and sold out to -- it's been so
long -- the South Water Resources or whatever the hell in
Stock Exchange outfit that's held ribbons and produces
profits, and there's only one place that's going to come
from, and that's from water users. And if you don't have
enough of those, that gets to be impractical. And so I'll
just say I have some severe concerns that I'd like to have a
little bit more satisfaction on, and that I have something
like just shy of 15 acres that fall in this proposed project,
and it, for better or for worse, is served by the city now.
JUDGE TINLEY: Well, let's see if these gentlemen
can answer your questions, Mr. Adams, okay?
MR. ADAMS: Let's what?
JUDGE TINLEY: Let's see if these gentlemen can
answer your questions, okay?
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MR. ADAMS: Well, the point I'd just like to make
is that I think they probably wished they hadn't have taken
over the service to the subdivision I have, and that there's
been quite a bit of -- there's always something broken..
Supposedly, it's been fixed, but we've got -- almost every
fireplug on the line is black. And I just -- they raise
those -- those areas of concern about additional expansion.
And God bless you; I wouldn't have your jobs for all the tea
in China.
MR. PARTON: Well, if I can try to --
JUDGE TINLEY: Surely.
MR. PARTON: -- make sure we got the questions.
correct, your first question was what is the real purpose,
and how does fire flow fit into that? That was your first
question?
MR. ADAMS: Well, yeah.
MR. PARTON: Then the next question is, where pis
the city in its existing water supply? The third question
was, what happens if the city has bitten off more than they
can chew? And the fourth question, I wasn't sure. Something
about you had 50 acres within the proposed CCN --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Fifteen.
MR. PARTON: I'm sorry.
MR.	ADAMS:	Just shy	of,	mas	or menos.
MR.	PARTON:	Okay.	So,	does	that -- are those', your
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questions? Those are your questions?
MR. ADAMS: Concerns, yeah.
MR. PARTON: Okay. So, real purpose. Do you want
to go into the intent behind -- the original intent behind
Council's --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: All right. Well, as I said
before, the whole intent is to save the taxpayers money in
the long run. That's it. That's the bottom line. I'll give
you an example. We took over Riverhill some several years
ago, and that was a pretty good subdivision compared to 'some
out there. And we have spent millions of the taxpayers'
dollars fixing that system. And what we don't want to do is
to repeat that mistake. That's the whole purpose.
MR. PARTON: Just -- and part of -- I think part of
your question was on the fire prevention side. What we're --
what our concern is, if you're in the ETJ right now, if you
build a system that is a -- a municipal system that serdes
a certain level of density, then you're required to put in
adequate fire flow, fire protection. If you're in another
water purveyor's operational CCN or service area, then that
provider can then make a decision that that system's no
longer available for firefighting. So, what we want to
insure is that when systems are required to be designed with
', fire flow, that that fire flow system is maintained as
available for firefighting purposes. The other question', you
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had is, is this an attempt by the City to be able to take
your water and transfer that to somebody else? No, we're not
trying to take over anybody's water rights, and a CCN doesn't
grant us that authority to take somebody's water rights..
What the CCN is about is establishing a given service area
for the sale -- for the retail sale of water in that certain
area. With that question answered, I'm going to go to the
next one about, is the City biting off more than it can chew?
If you have a development of a system that's in the far'..-- or
in a remote area, the City has an option then to be able.. to
negotiate with the developer to exclude that area, or to do a
mutual service enfranchisement for that area so that if tthere
was an outlying area and it made financial sense and
operational sense to detach that from the CCN, we have t',hat
ability to be able to negotiate that out and address tha'tt
particular type of situation.
MR. ADAMS: I would bet that no one other than' a
public corporation could afford a water system that would
meet the city's standards.
MR. PARTON: Well, we've got -- they're happening
out there. I mean, it's a common thing, but here I don't
know. The question of the adequacy of our water supply, one
of the purposes behind the CCN is for us to determine what
our ultimate service area is going to be so we can make
plans -- adequate plans on how to fully serve the area ~rithin
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that geographic boundary. Right now, we have the ability to
be able to grow our city by another 33 percent. We have
about 9,500 to 10,000 accounts right now. We have --
MR. ADAMS: I read that with great fascination.. My
only comment is, why do we require water taps for builders?
That's a horrible mistake.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: That was because -- pardon
me. Let me get up where y'all can see. The reason that was
done was our conservation plan that was in effect at the
time, and still in effect, that was the trigger point that
created that situation. It wasn't a lack of water. It
wasn't a lack of ability to produce. It wasn't a lack of
distribution. It was the -- the percentage of safe operating
capacity as determined by the -- partially because of the
MR. ADAMS: Maybe by somebody not here in
Kerrville.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Yes, that's correct.
MR. ADAMS: So --
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: And we are addressing that,
in that we are putting in a new production well, putting. in a
new ASR well. And, Charlie, correct me if I'm wrong; in'our
current two ASR wells, we have 460 or 470 million gallons
already stored that's there and available.
MR. HASTINGS: We're up to about 530 now.
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COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: But the point is that we'are
'i was adopted was triggered. We didn't anticipate some of the
things that happened. We are now going back and looking, at
it, fixing that so that that won't be a problem in the
future.
JUDGE TINLEY: Thank you, gentlemen. We appreciate
that.
MR. ADAMS: -- going way beyond our ET J, and -
like, by about 50 or 100 miles or more, for water. ''
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: We're not talking about 'that,
anything close to that. ''
MR. ADAMS: I know you're not, but I'm just saying
you should. ',
MR. PARTON: Look at other sources.
MR. VOELKEL: Question. Can I still ask a
question?
JUDGE TINLEY: You had a question for these
gentlemen?
MR. VOELKEL: I think so. I'm still -- I'm still
dealing with this fire prevention issue. I'm going to the
letter now that the City Manager wrote to you guys.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
', MR. VOELKEL: On the very first page, I'm just
confused. In the second paragraph, we talk about that orie of
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the City believes that obtaining a CCN is the only way that
we can insure firefighting capabilities in the area. And I'm
confused there, because I thought the City of Kerrville
subdivision ordinance provided firefighting capabilities'',for
the city and for development in the ETJ, without the neelld of
a CCN to do that. I'm curious as to why the CCN brings ',about
the ability for them to enforce firefighting in the city. and
in the ETJ.
MR. PARTON: It goes back -- I'm sorry. It goes
happens. But the bottom line is, a developer can come in,
design a system, meet those design specifications,
specifically include fire protection as a requirement. ..After
that's installed, after that's piped in within the ground,
the hydrants are there, then that operator can make their own
determination as to whether that system's available for
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firefighting. And they can decide literally within the
course of a day or two, who knows what, that they no longer
make that system available for firefighting. So, for the
purposes of that subdivision, there no longer is a fire
suppression system for that subdivision. And so what we''re
trying to do is insure that the systems that need to are
designed with that fire suppression system in place, and'that
that fire system remains available for firefighting purposes.
Which is not the case right now.
MR. VOELKEL: In other words, a provider -- I but
in a subdivision. I put it in to city standards. It's got
fire hydrants; it's ready to go for whatever fire flow i
necessary. That provider, at that point, has the option
whether or not he's going to provide me that much waterlor
not? Is that up to him to do that?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Under state law, that's'
right. He can paint those -- he can paint those hydran
black.
	MR.	VOELKEL: ETJ rules has	nothing to do -- what
you're	saying	is you provide fire prot	ection. I do it, and
yet the	purve	yor of the water doesn't	have to comply?
	COU	NCILMAN MOTHERAL: That's	right.
	MR.	PARTON: Correct. They	put the pipe in the
ground.	The	same pipe, the same water	is there. It's no
longer	-- but	they decide that system'	s no longer available
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for firefighting.
MR. ADAMS: My current question is, am I going to
get taxed for this?
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: No. No, we -- the City has
no ability to tax anything except what is inside of our city
limits, period. We can't tax anything.
MR. ADAMS: Doggone.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: I'll make an exception, if
you'd like.
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions from any member
of the Court with regard to these issues?
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just one, Judge.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Todd, what is your timeline
for moving forward? I asked that, because it's important to
what we're doing.
MR. PARTON: The T.C.E.Q. granted us an additional
amount of time, to April 15th, so that it can continue
working the map. Mr. Hastings alluded to a couple water
providers who are out there who don't have CCN's, so we want
to extract them from the map, and so we do so have some of
these islands out there we want to evaluate and consider
taking out. So, they granted us an additional amount o~ time
to April 15th.
25 ~ COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To send a revised map`?
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MR. PARTON: Correct, to get that back to them'....
What we are wanting to do is to -- just like we did with'you
guys, that we want to go to Headwaters Groundwater, we want
to go to U.G.R.A. and have an update to them at their next
board meetings. We'd love to be able to come back to you
guys closer to the map revision to update you on where wee
are, but we really want to have an opportunity for everybody
to know exactly where we are, what we're doing as we hit', that
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April 15th map submission deadline to T.C.E.Q. From there,
Charlie, T.C.E.Q. process --
MR. HASTINGS: It would be -- from that point'',
forward, it would be whatever their process is, which would
include the contested case hearings.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Charlie, you know, sine this
all started, your hair has gotten a lot grayer.
MR. HASTINGS: Yeah. It's not the years, it's the
mileage. (Laughter.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Any more questions? Thank you,
gentlemen. We appreciate you being here, --
MR. PARTON: Thank you.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- giving us the information.
COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Thank you for letting uS
come.
JUDGE TINLEY: I'm sure we'll be talking more about
these and other issues in the future.
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COUNCILMAN MOTHERAL: Good.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. I am told that we got through
the entire agenda. Were we to come back to some items? I'm
looking at Mr. Malek out there. So --
(Discussion off the record.)
JUDGE TINLEY: Is that what we're coming back ',t o,
is 15? Okay. Let's go back on the agenda, then, to Item 15,
to consider, discuss, and take appropriate action on
personnel issue regarding insurance coverage, privacy
i
officer, and new business agreements and signatures required
for Kerr County. ',
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: She was in here. ',
JUDGE TINLEY: Where's Ms. Hyde? ',
MS. BAILEY: She was here just a minute ago.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
MS. BAILEY: She did provide me with a copy of the
agreement. I was just reading it here as we were talking
about the CCN issue. It's pretty straightforward. ',
Essentially, it's just an agreement with us and Willis of
Texas, Incorporated, to require them to keep our HIPAA
information private, and if they use it, to utilize it in
such a way as to keep it private, as well as to require their
third-party agreement subcontractors to also keep that
information private. I don't see any reason you shouldn't
sign it and agree to it and authorize Eva to sign it as'',our
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JUDGE TINLEY: I think we have an obligation under
MS. BAILEY: Yes.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, this is a one-time
thing? She signs everything from this point on?
MS. BAILEY: I think you probably will still want
to know what's in the contracts that she's signing, so --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That was the whole question
this morning. Is she going to be signing documents that the
Court doesn't know what -- what are the contents or not?
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And really still don't know.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Don't know the answer.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Not sure we want to know
about some of those.
MS. BAILEY: If you would rather put this on the
next agenda, even though we're obligated to be in compliance
as of last week, I can't see that we could be faulted for
needing to look at what we're signing. If you'd rather have
a copy of this provided to you to review, and then approve it
next time, we could do that.
MR. MALEK: They didn't get a copy of it during the
break?
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MS. BAILEY: No. I didn't even get one till just
this minute during the discussion.
MR. MALEK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner Letz wasn't
privy to the discussion we had this morning.
JUDGE TINLEY: Nor was I.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nor the Judge.
MS. BAILEY: The issue is, well, twofold. One.
issue is just that we're mandated to have agreements with
people who have access to our privacy information, such'',that
not only are we obligated to keep it private, but they're
obligated to keep it private too. Obviously, a good idea;
nothing wrong with that contract. The second aspect of it
was that, since we have a privacy officer, that the privacy
officer needs to sign that agreement instead of the Judge,
and so Eva was asking for authority for her to sign the'
agreement instead of the Judge, because she is the designated
privacy officer. She says that the Court has done that
previously, and so if she's already the privacy officer,. that
makes sense. I reviewed the agreement. It does do what it
purported to do, which is to obligate our -- our other party
to keep our HIPAA information private, so I'm comfortable
with it. It doesn't provide for any consequences for failure
to do that, though. But --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why would it be necessary', for

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Ms. Hyde to sign the agreement, as opposed to the Judge to
sign the agreement?
MS. BAILEY: You'll have to get her to answer that.
She understood it very clearly. I was just looking at the --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She says federal law says
she shall. ',
MR. MALEK: The Judge can't be a privacy officer.
COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You work it out, Buster.
I've got a meeting. ',
(Commissioner Williams left the meeting.) ',
JUDGE TINLEY: I must not be the privacy officer.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She's the privacy officer.
MS. BAILEY: You have previously designated her as
the same.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: You really don't want tq be
the privacy officer.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: But this is --
JUDGE TINLEY: It has to flow through her, all of
this -- her office, all this HIPAA information with her
handling those claims and so forth. She's got a need tp be
privy to that. I have no need to and no desire to. And so
she's dealing with these third-party contractors that we're
using and so forth. And, now, I understood there was another
issue, whether or not this was going to give her carte
blanche authority; anything dealing with the authority of the
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privacy officer henceforth, she could continue to sign
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think that's --
I JUDGE TINLEY: That's a totally different issue.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think that came up,
but that is a good question. I would certainly add that to
MS. BAILEY: It would not be my recommendation that
you give her that authority.
JUDGE TINLEY: No.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I think the big question
of the day was, shouldn't -- you know, I have no problem with
her being the privacy officer and being the signer of the
agreements, but I think this Court -- I want to know what the
agreement is. That's -- that's the whole deal right there.
JUDGE TINLEY: Here comes the privacy officer..
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're authorizing her to
sign documents and just go on with it without -- without us
even knowing what -- what those documents are. I don't think
that's the right way to do business.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay. You're -- you're just unaware
of the content of the document that --
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Correct.
JUDGE TINLEY: -- that she's proposing to sign on
behalf of Kerr County?
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COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right.
JUDGE TINLEY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And if she's the privacy
officer, she's the privacy officer. I'm not going to argue
that point at all.
MS. BAILEY: I think Jonathan missed part of thhe
discussion, where the whole reason for this being on this
agenda and being crucial to happen is that apparently there
was a federal law just passed February the 4th that required
us to have this all accomplished by February 17th. Since
it's now the 22nd, we're out of compliance. And my argument
was if they can't give us any more notice than that, they
can't fault us for being a little bit behind. So, if you
want to put it off till the next agenda, I'm willing to ''
defend -- defend you for any sanctions imposed. However, I
did read it; it seems like a pretty straightforward ',
agreement, and if you want to authorize her to sign this one
this time, I'd be comfortable with that.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, you've read the thing
and explained to us what the agreement is about. It's --
it's about our -- those other folks not dealing with our
HIPAA stuff and us not dealing with their HIPAA stuff, and --
MS. BAILEY: Well, actually, we have always, ~s the
owner or the controller of the information, been obligated to
keep it secret from -- from dissemination, and this contract
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merely puts that obligation one step down further and says
also, people with whom we contract -- in this case, Will',is --
has that same obligation to keep our information private'., and
to, if they have to pass it on to a subcontractor for some
reason, also insure that that subcontractor complies wit''.h
those same privacy rules.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now that I know what that
is, I don't mind.
JUDGE TINLEY: No.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Yeah, that's very simpld.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is very simple.
MS. BAILEY: My only concern is that it doesn",t say
that if they mess it up, what are the consequences. Bud.
since they have an obligation under the contract, you know, I
think the consequences become clear. ',
MS. HYDE: The secretary's the Secretary of tYe
Department of Labor.
MS. BAILEY: She has a provision here that talks
about the privacy and security changes, and it does talk
about statute -- I suppose that these are statutory penalties
that are not included in the contract. But it does say'
failure to comply can result in civil, monetary penalties
ranging from $100 all the way up to one and a half million
dollars, depending on how culpable you are. So, since those
consequences are attached by statute to that contract, then
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that concern goes away.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why don't we just be done with
I it?
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Do it.
COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it called that we're
~ doing?
MS. BAILEY: Business agreement.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're not authorizing
anybody to sign anything. She already has that
authorization. ''
MS. BAILEY: Well, no, she's the privacy officer.
I think you have to authorize her to sign this particular
contract, which I would suggest would be a motion to
authorize the privacy officer, Eva Hyde, to sign the business
associate agreement made between Kerr County and Willis'of
Texas as of February 1, 2010.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move for approval.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Second.
JUDGE TINLEY: Motion made and seconded as
indicated. Further question or discussion? All in favUr,
signify by raising your right hand.
(The motion carried by unanimous vote.)
JUDGE TINLEY: All opposed, same sign.
(No response.)
JUDGE TINLEY: The motion does carry. Now that the
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Sheriff's not present, do we want to recall Item 14? I don't
see a great clamoring here; I guess not. Sounded like a good
idea to me. (Laughter.)
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go out to Inn of 't he
Hills and do it.
JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah, okay.
MS. HYDE: Can I ask a question, Judge?
JUDGE TINLEY: You have a question?
MS. HYDE: Please. On these, I've never done that
before, never had something where y'all would let me sign
something. Which is --
JUDGE TINLEY: Don't get used to it.
MS. HYDE: Right. It's out of my thingy. I mean,
that's why I said this morning, I still think that every
single one of these ought to come to the Court, and then the
Court tells me that it's okay.
JUDGE TINLEY: Apparently -- yeah, and that's '',the
way we'll deal in the future. But apparently the federdl law
suggests that the privacy officer is the one that needs to be
the party to these agreements, because the privacy officer's
going to be dealing with these third parties with whom this
information passes back and forth, and apparently that's the
rationale. If that's the way the feds want to do it --.
MS. HYDE: We still have four that we don't h&ve
signatures on, 'cause we don't have them yet. So, how do we
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1 I deal with those?
2	MS. BAILEY: Are they going to be exactly the 'same
3	except for the party?	
4	MS. HYDE: I	don't know. I don't know. I'm not --
5	I have no idea. So, do	we bring it back each court, or',do we
6	do as Mr. Baldwin said;	we can have a special meeting? ''
7	JUDGE TINLEY:	Well, I don't think we can be
8	faulted for not being i	n compliance if we haven't had the
9	agreements tendered to	us and we were unable to approve them.
10	MS. BAILEY:	I can defend you on that one, Judge.
11	MR. MALEK: I	think the fines don't apply to you
12	guys; it applies to the	other party.
13	JUDGE TINLEY:	You got anything else to come before
14	the meeting today, gent	lemen?
15	COMMISSIONER	LETZ: Just under our announcement
16 ( stuff.
17		JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. Try an	announcement. ',
18		COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll try	an announcement.'
19		COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does	this have anything to
20	do with	water?	
21		COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. No.	No, this is a nice
22	one. I	meant to say it earlier this morning, but Len sent
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23	some of	his crew over to the Little Le	ague fields and bladed
24	off the	parking lot. That actually is	addressed in thee.
25 I agreement that we're reworking right now, but it came to
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light that that is in the agreement. So, if someone makes a
comment to any of us as to why a county truck was out over
there blading off the Little League, one reason is because we
own the property, and also Len did a real good job over'.
there; spent the better part of the afternoon. I just wanted
nevermind. I'll talk to you.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: Well, under the -- kind',of
under the liaison stuff, I'm getting word to Len that some of
that dirt that's being taken out of the site where we're
going to build the new sheriff and detention -- or not
detention. Probation. We need to stockpile some of that
over at the Ag Barn, because when we remove that material
that's in the old arena now and move it over as we've been
COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll have a hole.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: -- we're going to need
something to fill it back with. I thought that would b~ a
good thing, being as we have access to it. And --
COMMISSIONER LETZ: And it's probably good dirt.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I can assure you, I'd like to
have that in my yard. But I can't have it. Anyway, ',
that's -- that's something they took care of earlier, I'
think.
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207
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JUDGE TINLEY: Leonard again had a drainage issue
out by the -- the old horse barn that we've been reworking
for Maintenance, 4-H, Ag, and all those folks out there.'. Tim
reports that he's done a wonderful job resolving that issue.
I mentioned earlier that we had the preconstruction meeting
on the new building. I think there was some concern on 'the
general contractor for the building, the finish out, whether
day, or maybe two days following. I went by there Friday
afternoon, and Len's already started moving the detention
pond. He's got his screening up; he's draining the -- he
earlier drained the pond. He's probably way head of that
curve. So, if those guys had any thought that he wasn't
going to get it.
COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You didn't see any axis deer
t there in any of those trees, did you? I
JUDGE TINLEY: Haven't looked, but I'll go look.
COMMISSIONER OEHLER: If there's any out there, let
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!08
1	me know. I'll go help	you with	some of	them.
2	COMMISSIONER	BALDWIN:	They're	out there, a bunch
3 I of them.
4 MS. HARGIS: Judge, I had one question. We've had
5 some people come and want bids for the arena, and we're 'not
6 ready for that. I just wanted to be sure that I was online
7 with that. We're collecting their cards and -- and giving
8 them to Jody, so I do want y'all to know we are having people
9 come into my office, and calls on it. ',
'~
X10 COMMISSIONER OEHLER: I think Jody's keeping a~, list
'11 and keeping phone numbers so they can call back when we ''get
'12 the stuff.
'13 JUDGE TINLEY: Yeah. We'll be happy to give
''14 anybody that's interested actual notice when those -- those
', 15 RFP's are ready.
'16 MS. HARGIS: That's what we've been telling them.
'17 I just wanted to make sure we were on the same page.
'18 JUDGE TINLEY: Anything else? We'll be adjourned.
19 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 2:51 p.m.)
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209
STATE OF TEXAS
COUNTY OF KERR I
The above and foregoing is a true and complete
transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as
official reporter for the Commissioners Court of Kerr County,
Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth.
DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 26th day of February,
2010.
JANNET'~T PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk
B Y : -__i`~J `~ -- -
- ~ -
Kathy ik, Deputy County Clerk
Certified Shorthand Reporter
z-22-io
ORDER NO. 31628
KERB COUNTY MISSION STATEMENT
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Adopt a Kerr County Mission Statement, as presented.
ORDER N0.31629
USE OF CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT FUNDS BY KERB COUNTY SHERIFF'S
OFFICE
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
'Commissioner Letz, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to:
Approve reallocation on the expenditures from the Capital Improvement Funds for use by
the Kerr County Sheriff's Office.
ORDER NO. 31630
' SET PUBLIC HEARING FOR INSTALLATION OF STOP SIGN AT ROUNDABOUT
' LANE AND SANDY LANE
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, the Court unanimously
'j approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve setting a Public Hearing for April 12, 2010 at 9:30 a.m. to install a stop sign at
Roundabout Lane and Sandy Lane, located in Precinct 2.
ORDER NO. 31631
CONSTRUCTION OF OFFICE SPACE FOR CHIEF DEPUTY IN KERB COUNTY
CLERK' S OFFICE
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve the Maintenance Department constructing a 10' x 10' enclosed office space for ',
the Chief Deputy in the County Clerk's Office.
i
ORDER NO. 31632 ''
KERB COUNTY CHILD SERVICES BOARD
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve appointing John Carlson as a member of the Kerr County Child Services Board.
ORDER N0.31633
USE OF FLAT ROCK LAKE PARK BY AMERICAN LEGION, ELKS CLUB AND
VFW
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
!, approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve use of Flat Rock Lake Park on June 12, 2010, by the American Legion, Elks
Club and VFW for the purpose of conducting a Carnival and Flag Retirement Ceremony. ',
ORDER NO. 31634
CONTRACT WITH KENDNEL KASPER CONSTRUCTION FOR CONSTRUCTION ''
OF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT ANNEX/ADULT PROBATION BUILDING
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve Contract with Kendnel Kasper Construction for construction of new Law
Enforcement Annex/Adult Probation Building and related improvements, and authorize
the County Judge to sign same.
ORDER NO. 31635
CONTRACT WITH FREESE-NICHOLS, INC. FOR REPAIRS AT FLAT ROCK AND ''
INGRAM DAMS
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously ''
;approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve Contract with Freese-Nichols, Inc., not to exceed $12,000.00, for engineering
'' services related to repairs of Flat Rock and Ingram Dams.
ORDER N0.31636
NEW HIPAA, COBRA, CHIPRA AND OTHER LEGISLATIVE CHANGES
Came to be heard this	the 22nd	day	of February,	2010, with	a motion made by
Commissioner Williams,	seconded	by	Commissioner	Oehler, the	Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to: (The Chair voted in the affirmative)
Move to authorize the Human Resource Department to take appropriate action to make
'' mandated notifications to Kerr County employees for HIPAA, COBRA, CHIPRA, and
other Legislative changes, and encourage all Elected Officials and Department Heads to
'encourage their employees to participate in the meetings. ',
ORDER NO. 31637
CLAIMS AND ACCOUNTS
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, came to be considered by the
Court various Commissioners Precincts, which said Claims and Accounts are:
Accounts Expense
10-General	$	229,077.27
14-Fire Protection	$	15,416.67
15-Road & Bridge	$	19,675.34
16-Capital Projects	$	36,375.66
18-County Law Library	$	1,317.10
19-Public Library	$	25,000.00
23-Juvenile State Aid Fund	$	404.02
27-Community Corrections	$	3,323.00
28-Records Mgmt & Preserv	$	50.00
39-Grant H-Misdeamor Div	$	4,285.75
41-Records Archival	$	80,000.00
50-Indigent Health Care	$	11,144.07
72-SO Equip/Donation Fund	$	568.48
76-Juv Detention Facility	$	7,122.11
77-LEOSE Funds	$	315.00
82-SO Law Enforcement	$	57.55
83-216`" District Attorney	$	5,445.15
86-216t" CSCD	$	1,264.29
TOTAL	$	440,841.46
Upon motion made by Commissioner Williams, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the
Court unanimously approved by vote of 3-0-0 to pay the claims and accounts.
ORDER NO. 31638
BUDGET AMENDMENT NOS. 1 THROUGH 6
Came to be heard this	the 22nd	day	of February,	2010, with	a motion made by
'Commissioner Williams,	seconded	by	Commissioner	Oehler, the	Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve paying the Budget Amendment Nos. 1 through 6 as presented.
ORDER NO. 31639
A/P DIRECT ITEM REGISTER '~
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
', Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Approve paying the A/P Direct Item Register as presented.
ORDER NO. 31640
MONTHLY REPORTS
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Oehler, seconded by Commissioner Williams, the Court unanimously ',
approved by a vote of 4-0-0 to: ~',
', Approve the Monthly Reports from:
JP # 1
District Clerk
District Clerk -Amended
JP #4
'Constable Pct #3
Kerr County Treasurer for January, 2010
Road & Bridge Department ',
ORDER NO. 31641
PERSONNEL ISSUE REGAREDING INSURANCE COVERAGE, PRIVACY
OFFICER, AND NEW BUSINESS AGREEMENTS SIGNATURES
Came to be heard this the 22nd day of February, 2010, with a motion made by
Commissioner Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Oehler, the Court unanimously
approved by a vote of 3-0-0 to:
Authorize Eva Hyde, as the Privacy Officer, to sign the new Business Associate
Agreements made between Kerr County and Willis of Texas as of February 1, 2010. '',