1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, February 26, 2001 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X February 26, 2001 PAGE 2 --- Commissioners' Comments 3 3 1.1 Pay Bills 5 1.2 Budget Amendments 6 4 1.3 Late Bills -- 1.4 Read and Accept Monthly Reports 10 5 2.1 457 Deferred Compensation Plan from VALIC 10 6 2.2 Change FLSA status of 4-H Program Assistant 22 7 2.6 Status/funding for Hermann Sons bridge 25 8 2.3 PUBLIC HEARING - Proposed Order establishing 9 Juvenile Nocturnal Curfew for Minors 30 10 2.4 Adopt Order - Juvenile Nocturnal Curfew 31 11 2.5 Resolution authorizing Lake Ingram Estates Road District unlimited tax bonds 74 12 2.7 Presentation by 911, current status/future plans 82 13 2.8 Purchase pager & pay monthly service fee for 14 on-call Burial Transit Permits 96 15 2.9 Vacate, abandon & discontinue Road #12, Turtle Creek Ranches 97 16 2.10 Application to Criminal Justice Planning Fund 17 for grant to Cluster Collections Pilot Project 102 18 2.11 Implementation date of current OSSF Order 108 19 2.12 Acceptance of remaining Center Point funds 110 20 2.13 Resolution supporting RC&D efforts to publish a book about conservation/related topics 112 21 2.14 Grant writing services for County by RC&D 115 22 2.15 Approve job description for Information Systems 23 Support Specialist 122 24 2.16 "Sunset" workshops re: county-sponsored programs 126 25 2.17 Request to use Youth Exhibition Center as primary or secondary evacuation site by K.I.S.D. 126 3 1 On Monday, February 26, 2001, at 6:30 p.m., a special 2 session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had 5 in open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is 6:30 on Monday, 8 February 26th. We will call to order this special 9 Commissioners Court meeting. Commissioner Griffin, I 10 believe you have the honors tonight. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. Would you stand 12 please? Join me in a moment of silence, each in our own 13 hearts and minds to seek guidance and wisdom for the task 14 ahead. 15 (Moment of silence and pledge of allegiance.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, if 17 there's any citizen who wishes to address the Court on an 18 item not listed on the agenda, please come forward and do 19 so. Is there anyone -- any citizen who wishes to address 20 the Court on an item not listed on the agenda? Seeing none, 21 we will move into the Commissioners' comments. Commissioner 22 Griffin? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No comments this 24 evening, Judge. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: No comments. Commissioner 4 1 Baldwin? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No comments. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a comment. 5 I'm going to name my high school student to the 6 Redistricting Committee. It's my pleasure to place before 7 you the name of Lindsey Norlander. Lindsey's a senior at 8 Center Point High School. She graduates in May; one year 9 early, I might add, at age 17. And she, according to the 10 principal's office, will likely graduate second in her 11 class. She's been accepted by Texas A & M; however, she 12 hasn't made that decision yet. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How -- where is she? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And she is a member 15 of the debate team. Please welcome her aboard. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Commissioner. 17 Anything else? Commissioner Letz? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No comments. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Couple comments 20 from myself. First of all, I want to thank everyone who had 21 anything to do with the reception on behalf of T.D. Hall 22 last Saturday out at the Ingram City Hall. It was a 23 wonderful tribute to a man who's given -- I believe it's 50 24 years of his life and career to the service of Kerr County, 25 and we honor him, and we're glad to have him still part of 5 1 us in his capacity as deputy constable for Precinct Number 2 4. Also, I would say that tomorrow evening, the Kerrville 3 City Council is going to take comments on the issue of an 4 appropriate name for what is now often referred to as the 5 U.G.R.A. lake, and since this Commissioners Court passed a 6 resolution in honor of -- asking the City Council to name 7 that lake in honor of Darrell Lochte, I'm going to go 8 tomorrow and make that presentation on behalf of the 9 Commissioners Court requesting that the City appropriately 10 name that body of water in honor of our late departed 11 friend, Darrell Lochte. So, with that, let's move into the 12 approval agenda. We have some bills to pay. Anyone have 13 any questions about the bills presented? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one -- a 15 couple, really. Under Nondepartmental, Tommy, I see some 16 expenditures, modest though they might be, for Intermedia 17 Communications under Nondepartmental. Can you enlighten me 18 about that? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm not sure which ones they 20 are, but we do have telephone for our -- long distance for 21 our computer department -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- in the back, and so I 24 think that's what it is. I'm not -- I have to look it up to 25 make sure. 6 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 AUDIENCE: Use the microphone. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm sorry. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone else have any 5 questions or comments? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move we pay the bills. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 9 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court authorize 10 payment of the bills as presented and recommended by the 11 Auditor. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 12 favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. We'll now 17 move into the budget amendments. Budget Amendment Number 1 18 is for Nondepartmental. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. I'm asking that we 20 move $204.04 from Nondepartmental Contingency to -- to 21 Books, Publications, and Dues, and this is to pay our 22 membership to the General Services Commission for state 23 purchasing. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 7 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 2 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 3 authorize Budget Amendment Request Number 1. Any further 4 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 5 right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 2, 10 also Nondepartmental. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. In installing all of -- 12 all the phones for the District Clerk's Office, we 13 discovered that we're -- we're totally out of room on our 14 phone system. I have a price here from -- from Kerrville 15 Telephone Company for -- for labor for -- it's a one-time 16 charge to -- to add software to our system, which will give 17 us more expandability for -- potentially for the downstairs 18 and the basement, and one more phone in -- in the District 19 Clerk's Office. And, this is the total -- their price 20 for -- for one-time fee is $1,600. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions? 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 25 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 8 1 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 2. Any further 2 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 3 right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 is 8 for the Sheriff's Department. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: We had to replace a -- a 10 monitor in the Sheriff's Department. I'm requesting that we 11 transfer $180 from Capital Outlay in Nondepartmental to 12 Capital Outlay in the Sheriff's budget. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 16 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve 17 Budget Amendment Request Number 3. Any further questions or 18 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: The last one is -- is a 24 request from the District Clerk, and in her move from one 25 location to the other, she had a computer that was given to 9 1 her by the Attorney General's office for -- for her clerk to 2 enter the web site for -- for the A.G.'s office, and we 3 attempted to use that computer for -- for our -- for that 4 purpose, as well as for the District Clerk's software for 5 her office. And, after two or three weeks of attempting to 6 make this work, we've finally given up. And it -- it 7 will -- it will -- we've finally found out that it has an 8 internal code in the computer that -- that authorizes that 9 computer to talk to the A.G.'s office, so we can't make it 10 do both. And so, in order for this clerk to have a computer 11 for -- for her desk that will allow her to get into the 12 District Clerk's system, we need another computer. So, her 13 request is to transfer $1,200 from her Capital Outlay -- I 14 mean, from Part-Time Salaries into Capital Outlay. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 18 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 19 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 4 for the District 20 Clerk's Office. Any further questions or comments? If not, 21 all in favor, raise your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. I take it we 10 1 don't have any late bills? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No, I don't. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. At this time, I'd 4 entertain a motion to approve and accept monthly reports as 5 presented. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 9 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve and 10 accept monthly reports as presented. Any further questions 11 or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 12 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (No response.) 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Moving right 16 along, we'll jump into the consideration agenda. The first 17 item is to consider and discuss a presentation of a 457 18 Deferred Compensation Plan from VALIC. Barbara Nemec. 19 MS. NEMEC: Thank you, Judge. A couple of 20 months ago, I had the honor of meeting Ms. Diane Moore, and 21 she came to my office. We had a meeting, and she explained 22 to me some of the investment options that they have 23 available for our employees. This would be strictly 24 employees who are wanting to participate in their program. 25 This has -- this is -- has nothing to do with our 11 1 retirement; that's separate and apart from this. And, I'm 2 going to let her make the presentation. I do want to say, 3 just to set the record straight, that I am really not in 4 favor of any more employee deductions. We have several that 5 we offer our employees as far as life insurance and things 6 like that, and I think at one time we had closed that to the 7 general public. It's only that we are, right now, 8 participating, or our employees are, in a 457 plan that 9 really doesn't -- we -- we call an 800 number; we just don't 10 have the service. Our employees are, weekly, having 11 deductions made from their paychecks and are sending this to 12 investments that they have chosen, but it's very hard for 13 them to find out what their investments are doing, where 14 their money is, and what can be done. So, that's what 15 impressed me about -- about this group, VALIC. They're 16 willing to come every payday, set up a little space in the 17 corner, and each employee that has deductions made and 18 investments going into their plan, they will be available to 19 them to answer any questions. So, that's what impressed me 20 about them. But, I'll let Ms. Diane Moore go ahead and make 21 her presentation. 22 MS. MOORE: I think I've already overwhelmed 23 you with paperwork, so I'll keep this short and sweet. That 24 large, red binder is mine. American General Corporation, my 25 parent company, and VALIC have -- VALIC Financial Division, 12 1 dealing with retirement, have pledged to service people that 2 need additional retirement savings. Your employees are 3 mandated to participate in Texas County and District 4 Retirement System, which is a good program, but it's not 5 going to replace their income at retirement, and most people 6 recognize that their primary pension won't. So, this is an 7 opportunity for your employees to have access to an 8 additional voluntary retirement savings plan. 9 The money goes in pre-tax, so they have the 10 opportunity to put that money away on a tax -- pre-tax 11 basis, and also to have it grow tax-deferred, so they would 12 not have the burden of having a 1099 and having Uncle Sam 13 take his piece out of it every year as it earns. They have 14 the opportunity to have guaranteed fixed investments, if 15 they want the security of an investment similar to a C.D. at 16 the bank, which they might understand. Or, if they are more 17 knowledgeable about investing -- and we can help educate 18 them -- they'll have the opportunity to invest in mutual 19 fund-based variable investments, investments that are 20 wrapped into annuity contracts. 21 This is a program that we implement all over 22 the country. Here in Texas, off the top of my head, we've 23 got about 40 counties that I know that we service 24 surrounding our primary regional and district offices. We 25 handle Harris County and the -- and about 14 counties 13 1 surrounding Harris County, Dallas and the surrounding 2 counties. We have been added to Bexar County recently. 3 We're working on the City of San Antonio. This is what our 4 -- our primary business is. I personally have 12 reps in 5 San Antonio that work for me and another six in licensing, 6 so we have reps dedicated to these outlying areas. And, we 7 would come out, give educational seminars to your employees 8 at your discretion to show them why they might want to save 9 additional retirement dollars, how they can put that money 10 away, what it's going to be worth to them at the time that 11 they retire, and how to take distributions from it when they 12 retire so that they can have a more financially viable 13 retirement. The packets that I gave you explain there's no 14 maintenance fee, there's no surrender charge. There's 15 basically no up-front costs nor rear costs to the employees, 16 only the underlying investment expenses. There's no expense 17 to the County. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: What are the underlying 19 investment expenses? 20 MS. MOORE: The average is 1.2 percent, and 21 that includes the investment advisory fee and the mortality 22 fee, so what we pay to Franklin or Putnam or Aim or one of 23 the fund managers, as well as our underlying insurance fee, 24 which has a guaranteed death benefit to it, if the employee 25 happened to pass away prior to retirement, prior to taking 14 1 any pay out on their account. Say they were a wildly 2 aggressive investor and they happened to go into the -- you 3 know, heavily into the market prior to October of 1987, and 4 the market crashed in October of 1987, and they put in 5 $10,000; now it's only worth nine. Well, the underlying 6 mortality expense is what guarantees that they would get the 7 full benefit of their contributions, plus a 3 percent 8 annualized gain, so they'd never suffer a loss due to that. 9 But, that's mortality expenses. And, expenses total about 10 1.2 percent. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there a minimum -- 12 MS. MOORE: No. We typically encourage, if 13 they're going to handle deductions, that they do it at least 14 $10 a pay period, just because it -- the expense of handling 15 it through your payroll department. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Would the employees who are 17 currently participating in the -- in the investment plan, 18 the supplemental retirement plan, be able to roll their 19 investment into your plan? 20 MS. MOORE: Yes, sir, they would. The 21 restrictions that you have with the current company are that 22 they're limited to moving 20 percent of their fixed 23 assets -- their long-term fixed investments on an annual 24 basis. And, all the variable assets, the monies that are 25 invested in the mutual fund wrapped, can be moved 100 15 1 percent immediately. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Are there a minimum 3 number of employees you need to -- 4 MS. MOORE: No, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- to implement the 6 plan? 7 MS. MOORE: We implement a lot of counties 8 that have 100 employees and have, you know, 10 or 15 9 participating. So, we just want to make sure that it's 10 available to all your employees if they want to participate. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me make sure I 12 heard Barbara correctly. The -- under our current program, 13 our employees are having a hard time finding out where their 14 investments are, et cetera? Your company -- 15 MS. MOORE: We would actually assign a rep to 16 you. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You'll have a live 18 human being that will come service -- 19 MS. MOORE: Real, live person. We would 20 actually assign a rep to you. They would coordinate with 21 Barbara, and then Barbara would help them coordinate with 22 the different departments, et cetera, to make sure that we 23 don't either overstay our welcome or not service your 24 accounts to your satisfaction. So, if she wanted us to 25 participate in an annual enrollment, you know, they would 16 1 coordinate that with the Treasurer's office. If she wanted 2 us to go to each one of the departments; say, Road and 3 Bridge or to the County Clerk's office or to the Tax Office, 4 you know, however that you preferred, and set things up 5 individually with them, we would do that as well. It's -- 6 it needs to be a mutual arrangement between us and your 7 offices. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Cool. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are there any other 10 department heads that are here that have any comments? 11 Jannett? David? 12 MS. PIEPER: Sounds good to me. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to ask the 14 Treasurer to expound a little bit about the payroll 15 deductions. Are you at a limit on the number that you can 16 program into your computer -- your system, or are you just 17 not happy about having another one? 18 MS. NEMEC: We're not at a limit. It's just 19 that -- oh, I don't know, eight years ago, when our county 20 insurance changed to another insurance company, the County 21 no longer offered life insurance for the employees, and 22 there were, like, five insurance agencies that came in 23 wanting to provide that insurance. So, rather than 24 discriminate against one or the other, we allowed all five 25 of them to sell insurance to our employees. So, now we have 17 1 three from -- you know, going with this company, and two 2 over here, five over here, and to where it's just -- our 3 employees are just -- every year, they're being hit up by 4 these agencies that we allowed to come in here to sell to 5 them, and are every year having to hear the sales pitch. 6 Instead of just having one person come in and represent the 7 County, we have all these different agencies. So, that's 8 what I mean by -- you start letting just anybody come in 9 here and service our employees, and we're just going to have 10 everybody do it. So, we -- I think a couple of -- few years 11 ago, we had said, that's it, no more payroll deductions for 12 our employees. If they want any other benefits, they can do 13 it on their own. That's what I meant by that. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That wouldn't work in 15 this case, though, would it? 'Cause this has to be 16 County-sponsored. 17 MS. NEMEC: This has to be County -- well, I 18 believe it has to be County-sponsored in order for it to 19 come out of their paycheck and for it to be tax-deferred. 20 And, like I said, I see the service that our employees are 21 getting with the other agency that we're with, and -- and I 22 just see their money being thrown away. If not, I wouldn't 23 be for this, but there -- they have -- there is no service 24 whatsoever. We have employees that are putting away $300 to 25 $400 a paycheck and can't get on the phone and get an answer 18 1 about where their investments are going. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Have you had an opportunity 3 to visit with any of the other local governments that use 4 this service? 5 MS. NEMEC: Yes, and they do come very highly 6 recommended. They are very -- very friendly and 7 service-oriented to all the -- all the counties that I've 8 talked to. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: If the Court approves of this 10 additional opportunity, would you have a proposed start 11 date? 12 MS. NEMEC: Oh, probably, to give me time to 13 organize it, April 1st. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And pre-seminar? 15 Seminars prior to that time? 16 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 17 MS. MOORE: Or they could start at that time, 18 whichever you prefer. That's something that we could 19 coordinate with Barbara at her discretion. 20 MS. NEMEC: We would start it, you know, the 21 middle of -- of March, but I don't know how soon they'd be 22 able to get in here and educate the employees on their 23 services. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I like the idea of doing 25 it. My only question is, do we need to -- I mean, just -- 19 1 American General Financial Group's the first one that came 2 to us. Should we go out and get other solicitations, or 3 just pick one -- I mean, the one that's on the table right 4 now? Is there any problem with just picking one without 5 putting out for any kind of proposal? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would think this is not 7 something that we have to put out for competitive proposals. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No cost to the County. 9 MS. NEMEC: Right. This is an employee -- 10 voluntary deduction on the employee's part. The County -- 11 MS. MOORE: If I can address that, 12 Commissioner Letz, typically this type of service, local 13 brokerages don't set up 457 plans. That's -- it's somewhat 14 specialized; there's a lot of IRS documentation that has to 15 go with it to set up the plan. And, secondarily, most of 16 the brokerage firms that are individual brokerage firms that 17 might be able to tack it on typically can't do it with no 18 front-end load, no rear-end load, no maintenance fees, 19 unless you're going to offer them an exclusive contract with 20 a guaranteed amount of assets that they're going to transfer 21 over. We -- we were rather amused when the City of San 22 Antonio came up to bid. Only two companies bid on it, 23 because no one wanted to come in as an add-on. With a group 24 that had 12,500 employees and $80 million in assets, nobody 25 wanted to come in as just an add-on. So, that's why it -- 20 1 typically in the rural communities, there are two primary 2 companies that have done this; the company that you have and 3 us. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jannett, you had a question? 5 MS. PIEPER: Yes. If -- if y'all chose to -- 6 to go with them, would we also get to keep our deductions 7 that we have coming out now? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, the way I understand it. 9 Is that correct, Barbara? 10 MS. NEMEC: Yes. 11 MS. PIEPER: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But, there could be 13 as much as a 5-year phase-out of people who've had -- 14 MS. MOORE: Of the fixed assets, yes, sir. 15 MS. NEMEC: Right. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Barbara, are you aware of any 17 other agencies that offer this service? 18 MS. NEMEC: No, sir. Just these two that 19 offer it now, we've had at our seminars. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm satisfied. I just 21 wanted to make sure that we weren't precluding anybody. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good question. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What do we need? I'll 24 make a motion that we -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, it's kind of 21 1 broad. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- accept the offer. 3 I mean, it's a -- it's something that the employees will 4 have to be sold on. We're just authorizing the employees 5 to -- 6 MS. MOORE: There's not a contractual 7 obligation to the County, either. It's 30 days. If we 8 don't like you or you don't like us, we can go away. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only question is, is 10 the agenda item specific enough to act on it? We do have 11 two County Attorneys here. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We should ask one of them. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's just put it on 14 next time and put it on right. And, I agree; I don't think 15 the verbiage is right. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, if there's any question 17 in our minds, let's put it down. We've -- I think there's a 18 sense that -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We'll put on it next 20 time. 21 MS. MOORE: I have a contractual document 22 that your County Attorney can review prior to, so that they 23 can have comfort with it. Who would you like to pass 24 those to? Here's my business card on there. 25 MR. LUCAS: Thanks. 22 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine. We don't need 2 to rush. Thank you. We appreciate your time. 3 MS. MOORE: Okay, thank you. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 2, 5 consider and discuss changing F.L.S.A. status from nonexempt 6 to exempt for position of 4-H Program Assistant, as 7 recommended by Nash and Company, consultants. Once again, 8 our Treasurer, Barbara Nemec. 9 MS. NEMEC: This position, before we had our 10 job descriptions reevaluated, was an exempt status position, 11 and after we had the evaluation by Nash and consultants, 12 they recommended that we change this 4-H Program Assistant 13 position to nonexempt. I passed out notices to each 14 department and elected official to see if they had any 15 problem with their job descriptions or the status on them 16 that was recommended, and we then formed a grievance 17 committee, and those came before the grievance committee. 18 This department did not ask for -- did not have a problem at 19 that time, or -- or just did not come before the grievance 20 committee. 21 I have talked to Mr. Holland, and he was 22 unaware of the change, or -- or at that time, just did not 23 realize that there was going to be a problem with it being 24 nonexempt. And, this position has since accumulated lots of 25 hours in overtime, so it kind of dawned on them that maybe 23 1 they were classified incorrectly. So, Mr. Holland and I got 2 with Nash -- Dr. Nash, and he reviewed the job description 3 and -- and, in essence, sent me a letter, which I provided 4 you all with, that said that it was an error on their part 5 and it should be an exempt position. 6 So, that's -- Mr. Holland is out of town, and 7 I told him that I would present this to you all for action, 8 as changing it back to exempt. There also has been some 9 overtime accumulated that has been on the books for this 10 position for over three months, and does need to be paid to 11 this individual, but Mr. Holland did not budget overtime 12 funds for it because at the time he did not realize that it 13 was going to be a nonexempt position. So, I think the 14 Auditor has a budget amendment to go along with this agenda 15 item. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Appears to be news to the 17 Auditor. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How much money? 19 MS. NEMEC: It's $743.75 that we need to do a 20 budget amendment for from Contingency to that salary line 21 item, or create an overtime line item in that department. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll have to take that up 23 next -- next week, I believe -- next meeting. Does anyone 24 have any questions about the issue of changing the status 25 back to exempt from nonexempt? 24 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. I think that's 2 something, clearly, we ought to do. I'll make the motion to 3 do that, that we -- I'll make a motion that we change the 4 status of the 4-H Program Assistant from nonexempt back to 5 exempt. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 8 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 9 change the F.L.S.A. status of the 4-H Program Assistant from 10 nonexempt to exempt, as recommended by the Treasurer and our 11 consultant, Nash and Company. Any further questions or 12 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 17 Barbara. 18 MS. NEMEC: The budget amendment will just be 19 presented next time? Is that what I understand? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not on the agenda, so 21 we're going to have to. 22 MS. NEMEC: It is a budget amendment like the 23 Auditor presents to all of you at the beginning of the -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I mean, the Auditor 25 will have to work through it. We don't have it here 25 1 tonight, and there's a question of do we set up a line item, 2 which would require some action. We can take it up -- 3 MS. NEMEC: Okay, thank you. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- in March. Thank you. 5 (Discussion off the record.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Since we have a few minutes 7 before the scheduled public hearing, let's skip to Item 8 Number 6, which is consider and discuss the status and 9 funding of Hermann Sons Bridge. Commissioner Letz. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 11 because we're at a point that we need to start spending some 12 money on the engineering and right-of-way acquisition for 13 the temporary bridge. Originally -- well, currently, Road 14 and Bridge is taking it out of Contract Services, which is 15 an appropriate line item for them to take the money out of, 16 but I think my preference is that we set up a line item so 17 we can track these funds, for several reasons. Primarily -- 18 well, we can just keep track of it, but also, there is a 19 chance of us getting reimbursed 100 percent of these -- of 20 our costs from another -- Texas Community Development 21 Program, which is another grant. So, it seemed wise to me 22 to keep all the funds easily identifiable. 23 Another thing that's happened recently is the 24 -- the cost of the temporary bridge keeps on rising rapidly. 25 I'm not sure exactly why, but the last number I saw, which 26 1 was in a letter that was attached to the packet, put a price 2 tag of about $250,000 for the temporary structure, of which 3 our 25 percent is $67,500. I think that works out right, 4 doing the math. There is a possibility, like I said, that 5 through the Texas Community Development Program, 100 percent 6 of our 67,5 would be covered under that grant. The 7 stipulation with that grant is the total cost of the bridge 8 has to be over $200,000, and that's why we didn't really 9 pursue it too much before, because the price tag had been 10 less than $200,000 until about a week ago. 11 So, it's a moving target, and we still don't 12 know really what it's going to cost, because the engineering 13 is underway right now. But, just to get everything clean, 14 what I thought we ought to do is put it on the agenda, just 15 to get everyone aware of where we are, and then look for 16 where the money's going to come from, assuming we don't get 17 any assistance, and then we can always put it back into the 18 General Fund if we do. I talked with Road and Bridge about 19 it, talked with Tommy about it. There are two areas that 20 this could come out of. It's obviously a non-budgeted item. 21 We have something over $100,000 in the Flood line item. 22 That money can only be used for flood damage; that could 23 come out of that. 24 And, the other item would be to go with the 25 Special Projects, Road and Bridge, and take it out of that 27 1 reserve fund. Either way, it would be required -- it would 2 require declaring an emergency and going into the budget and 3 appropriating the appropriate amount of money. Again, we 4 don't know exactly how much we need, but we know we're going 5 to need something, and probably a minimum of $50,000, the 6 way it looks. My preference would be to probably go into 7 the Flood account, because we've never used that fund so 8 far, and this is what it's set up for. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: That sounds to me like that's 10 the appropriate place. Anyone have any questions or 11 comments? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One additional point, 13 which is just to make it a little bit more confusing. 14 TexDOT last week decided that they were going to make this a 15 high priority, and there is a possibility that this is going 16 to be a -- put out for engineering in January 2002. Well, 17 what that does -- it would be, after construction in late 18 2002, a Priority 1 project. What that does is that if they 19 really were to do that, we would be spending a lot of money 20 for a temporary bridge that would be there for about a year 21 or less than a year. But, what -- when I heard this from 22 Road and Bridge, my immediate response was, well, yes, and 23 the High Water bridge was supposed to be built two, three 24 years ago, and it still hasn't been started. I have not 25 talked with TexDOT directly, but that is something that we 28 1 need to keep in consideration before we jump in too far with 2 spending the money. I'll try to get an answer from TexDot; 3 I'm working on that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My suggestion is, if 5 you see that you're going to take it out of the Special 6 Projects, that would mean to me that one of -- a project in 7 one of our precincts will get deemed -- and I'd hope that 8 you would come back and let's visit about it a little bit 9 before we just move forward with it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, that's why I think 11 we should take it out of the Flood -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree, that's where 13 it needs to come out of. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, there's a hundred 15 and -- 16 MR. TOMLINSON: $128,000. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $128,000 in that account, 18 which will cover it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Perfect. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, excellent. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're not looking 23 for action tonight, are you? Or are you? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see any problems 25 leaving it the way it is. We can do a budget amendment at 29 1 the next meeting, 'cause Road and Bridge is doing it through 2 Contract Services right now. I think they have the 3 authority under a prior Court order to proceed on this, and 4 then we could adjust it after we do the budget amendment 5 next meeting. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Commissioner, is 7 there going to be a similar participation for the permanent 8 replacement? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Too early to have any 11 feel for what that's going to cost, though? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there any possibility that 14 some of the work being done now would be a contribution 15 towards the permanent -- the right-of-way or the 16 engineering? Probably not talking about the engineering, 17 but maybe the right-of-way? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, we're working on 19 that. The right-of-way is not working real smoothly on the 20 temporary, much less on the permanent. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, enough said. Any other 22 questions on that item? Okay. Finding that it's now 23 7 o'clock, we will recess the Commissioners Court meeting 24 and go into the public hearing on the proposed order 25 establishing County Juvenile Nocturnal Curfew for Minors. 30 1 (The regular Commissioners Court meeting was closed at 7:00 p.m., and a public hearing 2 was held in open court, as follows:) 3 P U B L I C H E A R I N G 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: A brief bit of introduction. 5 The Court approved the proposed order on January 22nd, at 6 which time we established this hearing. The order is a 7 result of the work by the citizens -- the Juvenile Advisory 8 Council, which has been looking at the issue of juvenile 9 problems in Kerr County for over a year. The council met 10 with representatives of the law enforcement agencies in Kerr 11 County, as well as the school districts, got the -- the 12 benefit of the experience of the Ingram -- City of Ingram, 13 which has a -- a similar curfew in effect, and unanimously 14 recommended to the Kerr County Juvenile Board consideration 15 of such a curfew in the unincorporated areas of Kerr County. 16 Kerr County Juvenile Board, in turn, 17 recommended to the Commissioners Court that the 18 Commissioners Court establish such a curfew. The order was 19 drafted and researched by our County Attorney, David Motley, 20 and I believe it's his impression that it will stand up to 21 any constitutional scrutiny, based on some cases that came 22 out of the Dallas area. Additionally, last Tuesday at the 23 Kerrville Independent School District board meeting, they 24 passed a resolution confirming their support of a teen 25 curfew along the lines outlined in the order. With that 31 1 opening background, is there anyone here who would like to 2 address the Court on the proposed order establishing a 3 County Juvenile Nocturnal Curfew for Minors? Wayne? 4 MR. ESTE: I would, but you just outlined 5 everything I was going to say. Thank you. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Wayne Este, who is a member 7 of the committee. Anyone else have anything they'd like to 8 add on that issue? I see Phil Demasco in the back, who is 9 also a member of the committee, and David Motley, who's a 10 member of the committee. Thank you all for coming this 11 evening. Once again, is there any citizen who'd like to 12 address the Court in this public hearing on the proposed 13 order establishing a County Juvenile Nocturnal Curfew for 14 Minors? 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Seeing none, we will close 17 the public hearing and resume the Commissioners Court 18 meeting and turn to Item Number 4, which is consider and 19 discuss adopting the proposed order establishing a County 20 Juvenile Nocturnal Curfew for Minors. 21 (The public hearing was concluded at approximately 7:05 p.m., and the regular 22 Commissioners Court meeting was reopened.) 23 - - - - - - - - - - 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do I have any questions or 25 comments from the Commissioners? 32 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, sir? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On the first page 4 here, of the first "Whereas," it says that the Kerr County 5 Commissioners Court determined, according to the most recent 6 statistics available, that 58 percent of Kerr County's 7 juvenile referrals for criminal acts, et cetera and so 8 forth. 58 percent of criminal acts were done out in Kerr 9 County? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, that's not only in Kerr 11 County. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That includes the City 13 of Kerrville? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's all of the referrals 15 to the Kerr County Juvenile Probation Department from all of 16 the law enforcement agencies. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That includes the City 18 of Kerrville? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, it includes the City of 20 Kerrville. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What would be the 22 percentage out in the county? 23 MR. MOTLEY: That's a little bit hard to 24 determine, because none of this information is either 25 computerized or is accessible through The Software Group. 33 1 This information was gathered manually by Mr. Stanton, and 2 he literally went through the referrals that he had gotten 3 for -- I can't remember what set period of time before. I 4 had asked him for the numbers. As a matter of fact, you'll 5 notice that the numbers there, say, between 11 p.m. and 6 6 a.m, and since he gathered those numbers in an effort to 7 make our order more identical with the Ingram order, really, 8 I think at the request of law enforcement, so we had the 9 orders coterminous, that, you know, we were originally 10 looking at 11:00 to 6:00 on ours. But, put it this way; 11 that's a -- that's a small percentage of the day. That's 12 only 29 percent of the day, and 58 percent of the offenses 13 are happening during that time period. So, really, it 14 appears that offenses are happening during those hours at a 15 four-to-one ratio. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't have any 17 problems with that. I just -- 18 MR. MOTLEY: But I don't know. We -- you 19 know, we can't determine -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You know, I'd feel 21 uncomfortable adopting some kind of curfew law that -- when 22 there's nothing going -- nothing wrong going on out in our 23 county. You know, I just -- 24 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I don't know if Mr. 25 Stanton is here and can give you a general sense of what 34 1 percentage of the referrals come from outside the City of 2 Kerrville -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 4 MR. MOTLEY: -- and excluding Ingram. I 5 mean -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you another 7 question. As a prosecutor, do you see any problem with this 8 thing -- this thing being piece-mealed together? Like, the 9 City of Ingram has -- has adopted a program out there a long 10 time ago, I understand, and then Kerr County comes along and 11 adopts a curfew program. Then the City of Kerrville is 12 sitting here without one. See, that doesn't make any sense 13 to me. But -- 14 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah, but we can't really -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: As a prosecutor, do 16 you see any problem with that? 17 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I mean, I guess the fear 18 might be is that the kids who are going to be out after 19 curfew hours are going to be migrating towards the places 20 where there's no curfew. But, I -- of course, we have no 21 authority over the City of Kerrville to get them to do these 22 things. I know that I've had inquiries from their legal 23 staff about -- about our order and the court authority and 24 such on which it was based. I could assume that something 25 perhaps is in the works, although I don't -- I have not been 35 1 notified. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just seems to me a 3 business -- a businesslike fashion to go about it would be 4 the City of Kerrville adopt one and then -- then let's go -- 5 go out and do the entire county. 6 MR. MOTLEY: I know that Chief Dickerson has 7 expressed interest and support in this -- in this order. I 8 know the Sheriff -- and, of course, Ingram has been pleased 9 with their results, and so we've let everybody know in the 10 area, the schools included, that we're contemplating the 11 order. And, that was done back at the committee level. 12 But, as far as a sense of what percentage of that, you know, 13 58 percent are county, exclusive of city, I don't know. 14 We'd have to really -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. 16 MR. MOTLEY: -- look at it again. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. 18 I think you probably -- being that the County Judge is the 19 juvenile judge and your office is the prosecuting office, 20 how many -- what percentage of the crimes happen outside the 21 City of Kerrville? 22 MR. MOTLEY: Are you talking about all crime? 23 Or juvenile only? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: David, we're dealing 25 with juveniles here. 36 1 MR. MOTLEY: Well -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Juvenile only. The 3 things that y'all deal with in this room. 4 MR. MOTLEY: I'm going to give you a straight 5 answer. We don't really -- we don't really record, when 6 we're processing the case, whether it's a county case or a 7 city case. The way we could probably do that is go get -- 8 we log in every case according to which agency sends it to 9 us. We can go look at those log books and see how many 10 cases come from the Sheriff's Department over a given period 11 of time. Ingram Marshal, D.P.S., Kerrville Police 12 Department, and other agencies. We can do that. There is a 13 minor overlap there. I mean, there are times when a 14 Sheriff's deputy may give somebody a -- a ticket or a D.W.I. 15 or something in the city limits, and there's times when the 16 City police -- you know, but generally speaking, we could 17 get an idea by looking at the log books. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Well, what 19 triggered that thought or that question was, the last time 20 we talked about it, Fred was talking about some little Billy 21 Bob walking down the street and pulled out a key at a -- at 22 an automobile dealership and scraped the side of a car. 23 Well, we don't have a lot of automobile dealerships out in 24 the county. I'm just trying to get a feel of, you know, how 25 many -- 37 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: That one happened to be in 2 the county. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did it, really? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just this side of -- of the 5 Danger Zone. 6 MR. MOTLEY: Body shops, repair garages, auto 7 garages have the same sort of problem; broken windshields, 8 damaged paint. I know that we've dealt with a number of 9 cases that would be in the county. They wouldn't have to 10 all be new or used car dealerships in order to suffer damage 11 of a criminal mischief nature. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know if I answered your 14 question. I'll be happy to go look at those log books, give 15 you a number for adults and -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I kind of wanted to 17 know that tonight to -- in order to make a decision. 18 MR. MOTLEY: We went the extra mile with The 19 Software Group trying to find out if the -- all information 20 through the Sheriff's Department could be sorted according 21 to age of offender and hours of offense, and Rusty can tell 22 you that just simply was not available in that manner. So, 23 it would require somebody quite a bit of time to manually go 24 through every offense report. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Recordkeeping. 38 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- for the County 4 Attorney. David, under Curfew Hours, we're talking about 5 the curfew being from 12:01 a.m. to 6 a.m. Monday, Tuesday, 6 Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, and we're saying that it is 7 1:01 to 6 a.m. -- 6 a.m. -- 1 o'clock to 6:00 on Saturday 8 and Sunday. Given that school is Monday, Tuesday, 9 Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday, and the off days are 10 Saturday and Sunday, wouldn't it be a little more practical 11 for the curfew to be shorter on Sunday nights, since they're 12 going back to school on Monday morning, as opposed to being 13 shorter on Friday night, when Saturday's the day off? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is not night, this is 15 morning. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, a.m. -- well, 17 it's -- 1:01 a.m. is night, by my clock. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's 1:01 a.m. Sunday 19 morning to 6 a.m. Sunday morning. 20 MR. MOTLEY: And Friday -- Friday, 12:01, one 21 minute after midnight, until 6 o'clock, they're prohibited 22 out. And then, of course, Saturday, which would be, you 23 know, one minute -- I mean, they get an extra hour on 24 Saturday beginning at midnight, of course. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, the way you're 39 1 reading it, then, is really Friday night and Saturday night, 2 as opposed to Saturday night and Sunday night; is that 3 correct? 4 MR. MOTLEY: Well, again, I was -- I was 5 really trying to comport more with what they had in Ingram 6 before for ease of the law enforcement personnel who were 7 trying to enforce this. But, yes, strictly I'm -- I'm -- I 8 put the 12:01 to 6 a.m. in there, you know, on purpose, 9 'cause Friday night, the night before -- or Friday morning, 10 excuse me, 12:01 a.m. until 6 a.m., they have school 11 sometime around 8 o'clock a.m. or 7:45 a.m., so that's a 12 night on which -- on Friday that they would be expected to 13 be in that hour earlier. Okay? So, I don't know if I -- I 14 hope I wrote that clearly. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 17 comments? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have several, Judge. 19 As I think everyone's probably aware in here, I've said 20 several times I'm opposed to the curfew, just on the basis I 21 don't think it's the government's job to be doing this. I 22 think it's just a parental issue, and I just don't think we 23 should be going down this road at all. That being said, I 24 do have some specific comments, though. One, I -- you know, 25 this is -- I have no side based on what the County Attorney 40 1 just said under the first "Whereas." I was just curious as 2 to what percent of adult crimes happen during those same 3 hours. My suspicion is that the majority of all crimes 4 happen in the middle of the night. 5 MR. MOTLEY: I will tell you that when I was 6 asking for the other statistics that I just mentioned a 7 moment ago, I did ask for adult offenses broken down by type 8 of offense and by -- by hour, as far as -- you know, in the 9 county system. My understanding is they're not able to 10 produce that specific information from what is maintained on 11 our mainframe system. I asked for quite a bit of 12 information that, really, we weren't able to generate. So, 13 what we were able to do was basically have somebody go 14 through the most recent stats by hand, and I got the stats 15 which I felt were more closely aligned with what the purpose 16 was and included them, and that's really all we were able to 17 do. But, we -- I tried every way possible, I think, to get 18 broader statistics, and I would like to know the same thing. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just -- it's not that 20 big a deal. It's just that -- I mean, it's -- to me, that 21 "Whereas" is -- you pick and choose, and I think all crimes 22 happen at night, basically. But, that's neither here nor 23 there on this. On the hours listed, there is a curfew -- to 24 me, 6 a.m. ought to be changed to 5 a.m. There's a lot of 25 hunting that goes on in this area, and people that go out. 41 1 A lot of them are not with adults, necessarily. And, I 2 know -- I don't think that it would change the effect of the 3 curfew, really, to have a 5 a.m. period, certainly on the 4 weekends. The thing that -- another point that -- 5 MR. MOTLEY: Are you talking about only on 6 weekends? Are you saying -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, that's where I 8 see the biggest need, but, I mean, it could be Christmas 9 holiday, it could be, you know, every day of the week, 10 probably. So, to me -- 11 MR. MOTLEY: Well, if it's a declared 12 holiday, it's off limits anyway. It's -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's no curfew on 14 holidays? 15 MR. MOTLEY: No. It says in here that under 16 -- under -- it's on Page 2. It's A(2)(c). It's -- well, it 17 just says 1:01 to 6:00 on any day preceding a school holiday 18 for students as declared by any of these schools or school 19 districts. So, it would be in effect. It would be the same 20 as the weekend time on that one. So -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Does it say that? 22 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah. I mean -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On any day preceding a 24 school holiday. Doesn't say what's on that holiday. 25 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah, you're right. 42 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The day before the 2 holiday. 3 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah. Well, maybe that's a -- 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not during the holiday. 5 MR. MOTLEY: You're right. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Should be on the school 7 holiday. 8 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. All right. I think we 9 can -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, it could be 11 both. 12 MR. MOTLEY: We certainly can make that 13 change. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 5 a.m. is a better time. 15 The other thing that concerns me, I think, is where 16 Commissioner Baldwin is going. I really have never seen 17 any -- any data to show that there's a need for this. I 18 mean, the justification that I've heard from the juvenile -- 19 or from the Judge is basically that we've hired another 20 Juvenile Probation Officer or individual, and, you know, I 21 just don't know that -- you know, I understand we -- for 22 whatever reason, we can't produce any -- any reliable 23 information, statistics on crimes of this type as to where 24 they are or when they are that much. But, to me, we're 25 going into this a little bit -- you know, without a lot of 43 1 knowledge. And that gets me to my final part, under the 2 Review section -- 3 MR. MOTLEY: Can I speak to this last one you 4 just mentioned there? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sure. 6 MR. MOTLEY: And I think you're correct, by 7 the way, as far as that -- on the school holiday thing. 8 That's an error. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 MR. MOTLEY: We did try to get all manner of 11 statistics; we were just unable to do so. A lot of what the 12 committee, I think, looked at -- and Wayne can probably 13 verify this for you -- is that a lot of it is -- was a sense 14 of -- of what some of the officers and some of the people 15 who work with the kids expressed to us. So, in -- I won't 16 say in lieu of statistics, but in addition to statistics, we 17 did have people telling us that -- that they had a sense 18 that there was more involvement of just random criminal 19 mischief occurring in these hours. We consider that to be 20 valid information. It's more of a personal impression and 21 not backed up with stats. I mean, I'd be happy to try to 22 get more statistics. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Why not -- if the 24 statistics are squishy, why not just remove the first 25 Whereas? Doesn't change anything. Leave it out of there. 44 1 MR. MOTLEY: I think it's important to have 2 some -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The other Whereas's 4 cover it pretty well. 5 MR. MOTLEY: Right, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If you don't really 7 know what the statistics are, I don't see any need to -- 8 MR. MOTLEY: Well, the statistics here are 9 valid. These -- these are valid statistics. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We don't study that. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: But there's no -- there's no 12 challenge to the validity of the statistics. Those are 13 statistics gathered by the Juvenile Probation Department 14 based on referrals from the law enforcement agencies. 15 There's no question as to the validity of the statistics. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I'm not 17 questioning the validity at all. All I'm saying is if 18 that's a hangup, we could take that out of there, and I 19 don't think it changes anything. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think it's an element 21 of -- of the court cases that David has studied that -- that 22 indicate that -- that the curfew needs to be based on some 23 sort of statistical analysis, which I think is one of the 24 bases for it to be a -- Wayne, you had a comment, sir? 25 MR. ESTE: I think the question that we're 45 1 talking about is one that has been confirmed by the 2 Sheriff's Department, police department here in Kerrville, 3 probationary people -- the probationary board, that although 4 we may not have the statistics as you -- as you'd like to 5 see them, they can only enforce the law at the times of the 6 morning that we're talking about if they have something to 7 enforce it with, some instrument, some tool. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My argument is, if the 9 kids are not doing anything wrong, why should they be 10 approached, period? I mean, it's not -- anyway, that's not 11 at issue. Let me get on with my other point in here under 12 the Review portion, but first go back to what Larry's point 13 is. I'm not challenging the statistics here. I'm just 14 saying there's nothing in here that has provable statistics 15 that there's a problem in Kerr County -- there's a problem 16 in the county. Only that maybe, as a whole, these relate to 17 city of Kerrville, city of Ingram, and Kerr County. And, my 18 issue is, I don't know that there is a problem in Kerr 19 County. The problem may be in the city of Kerrville, and 20 there's no statistics that anyone can come up with that says 21 there is a problem in the county portion of Kerr County. 22 That's what I'm saying. 23 Under the Review portion, it talks about a 24 review coming up in six months. I have two comments on 25 that. One, I sincerely hope that the County Attorney and 46 1 the Juvenile Board can handle this -- and the Sheriff's 2 Department; that we start having statistics exactly as to 3 where these kids are being stopped, where the crimes are, 4 and what the problems are. I think, you know, it's 5 ridiculous for us to be able to review something that we 6 don't even have statistics for. And, on that point, I would 7 also like to recommend that the third sentence, which reads, 8 Kerr County Sheriff will make recommendations -- second 9 sentence -- recommendations to the Kerr County Commissioners 10 Court concerning the effectiveness of and need for 11 continuing the order. 12 I would rather see this order sunseted after 13 six months and let us take proactive action by the Court to 14 continue it. I think that is one way to insure that we get 15 the information that I think we need to, again, make a 16 reasonable, you know, decision as to whether this is 17 working, whether there is a problem, whether there is not a 18 problem. And I think if it's -- as far as a little bit more 19 of a -- I guess not really a burden, but it will make more 20 of an insurance that these statistics are kept if this is 21 just sunseted after six months and it takes action by us to 22 continue it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's my only comment. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd like to follow up 47 1 on what Commissioner Letz is saying and what Commissioner 2 Baldwin said earlier. Essentially, I favor the curfew; 3 however, I think the point that Commissioner Baldwin raised 4 earlier and Commissioner Letz just referred to with respect 5 to the City of Kerrville at this point having not enacted -- 6 or at least we're not aware of their potentially enacting a 7 similar curfew, I'm wondering whether or not we're driving 8 the juvenile delinquents from the county to the city because 9 there is no curfew, and whether or not the effectiveness of 10 what we're attempting to do is -- is diminished considerably 11 because of that. Unless somebody can tell us tonight that 12 the City of Kerrville is seriously entertaining it and is at 13 the point or almost at the point of doing what we're doing 14 tonight, I think I'd like to add into -- under the Review 15 section, picking up on what Commissioner Letz said, a sunset 16 provision after one year, if the City of Kerrville has not 17 enacted -- I think it's futile if you don't have uniformity 18 across the county. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: The experience in the City of 20 Ingram has been very positive to this concept. I think the 21 Sheriff will agree with that, and I know Mr. Este will agree 22 with that. They have had a curfew in effect for -- two 23 years? Three years? Without a -- without a County curfew 24 in effect, without a City of Kerrville curfew in effect. 25 And, the impact, from what I'm told, has been very positive. 48 1 I think the people who have the businesses between Kerrville 2 and Ingram, people who have the businesses and homes in 3 Center Point, really aren't that interested in whether the 4 City of Kerrville is involved or not. What they're 5 interested is the protection for their own businesses and 6 their own professions and their own residences and their own 7 children. This Court cannot control what the City of 8 Kerrville does. I spoke to the mayor today. I asked him 9 what their timetable was. He said they're essentially 10 waiting to see what we do, but they would -- it was his 11 sense that they would be disposed to take up the issue if 12 the Commissioners Court leads the way. There are times when 13 you lead and there are times when you follow. I've never 14 known of this Commissioners Court to be dependent upon 15 guidance from the City of Kerrville in anything, and I'm a 16 bit amazed to see that there's a sentiment now that we 17 shouldn't act because the City of Kerrville has not acted. 18 You need to explain to the operator of the Mini-Mart in 19 Center Point why we're reluctant to act if the City of 20 Kerrville is not going to act. Wayne, do you have any 21 comment on the -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll go a little bit 23 further, Judge. I'd say that if we wait for the City to do 24 anything before we do something, these teenagers will all be 25 collecting Social Security. So, you know, it's just -- 49 1 that's a -- that's just a fact. They're not going to lead 2 the way on anything, because it takes them too long to do 3 it. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a tad of 5 qualification, Judge. I'm not suggesting that we wait until 6 the City of Kerrville does it; I'm suggesting that the 7 effectiveness of our action is considerably degraded by 8 reason of their, perhaps, not acting. Doesn't mean I'm not 9 in favor of it. I am in favor of it. 10 MR. MOTLEY: Judge, the Ingram order was 11 effective July 20th of 1999. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff? 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only comment -- and 14 I'll comment a little bit back on the statistical value. 15 The problem with a lot of getting the statistics is that 16 we're out there at 2 o'clock in the morning and we bust up 17 what we call a juvenile party, okay? You may have the -- 18 most likely you're going to have between 15 and 20 kids at 19 one of those. That goes in under one -- what we call a case 20 number. All right? So, as far as statistics, the only 21 thing we could put, except for individually going through 22 and listing the number of kids at that party, is one 23 incident, okay? Or one offense, where you may -- it may 24 actually involve 20 kids out there. So, you have a problem, 25 you know, with getting that type of statistics. 50 1 Now, if they enforce it with the Review 2 provisions in here, I'll just have to develop a program that 3 we can come up with, hopefully dealing with Software Group, 4 to where it can be done computer-wise, or we'll have to 5 manually keep track of it. I don't have a problem at all 6 coming back with a review. I, too, think it ought to be 7 reviewed, and let's see exactly where it is. As far as 8 crimes, you know, we know we have quite a few. I know right 9 now, like, our criminal mischief out in the county after the 10 midnight hours involving windows getting broke out of 11 businesses, mailboxes and signs getting run over, is on a 12 drastic increase over the last few years. I feel that most 13 of those are done by juveniles, but until those would 14 actually be solved, I couldn't swear that they're juveniles 15 and not 18- or 19-year-old kids, or even adults. But, I 16 think there's definitely a need for it in the county. Me, 17 as a parent, I may disagree and think parents and families 18 need to take care of their own, but as a law enforcement 19 officer, I think we have to do it. 20 As far as if the City does it, I kind of 21 agree with Judge Henneke on that. You know, I hope the City 22 does, because I don't want us just chasing the kids inside 23 the city limits and letting them do that. But, on the other 24 hand, maybe this will stir them up. They normally have 25 almost twice as many officers out in the city as I do in the 51 1 county, so if it does chase them in the city, they can be 2 controlled a little bit better by more officers on the 3 streets, and I hope we can control it that way and lower our 4 crime rate out in the county. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, are you going to 6 plan or already planning to figure out a way to keep track 7 of -- of stops that are -- are, I guess, an inconvenience to 8 good kids? That's basically someone who has a defense, 9 which there are many in here, and how these defenses are 10 going to be handled by your department. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can definitely come 12 up with a plan for that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's -- you know, 14 the number of -- anytime you do one of the stops, you're 15 going to be inconveniencing that kid. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And detaining that kid, 18 and probably for 15, 20 minutes. And, if most of the stops 19 are kids that have a defense and are basically not breaking 20 the curfew, then I think that needs to be noted in your 21 statistics as well. We need to know that. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We can definitely do 23 that. The only concern that -- y'all brought it up about 24 the holiday deal; I do have a concern over that. And I have 25 a concern if it's an Ingram school holiday, but not a 52 1 Kerrville school holiday, does that mean the kids going to 2 Ingram are exempt, you know, under the hours, and not the 3 kids going to Kerrville? Or how -- I think there needs to 4 be some -- some fine-tuning on that paragraph in this so 5 that we can -- and if it's summer vacation, is that going to 6 be considered a school holiday? Should it just be that 7 there's no school by public or private school? I don't 8 know. But, there -- that would be where I'm going to have a 9 problem with the enforcement, is getting that language 10 clear. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: David? 12 MR. MOTLEY: Can I speak to those issues? 13 There is really -- you know, the Ingram order has an 14 advantage over the county-wide order, in that I believe it 15 makes sense to say that there's a holiday. All the kids who 16 live in Ingram probably are going to the Ingram Independent 17 School District, so if they have a holiday, it's going to 18 cover all the kids living in that city. As the county 19 encompasses many independent school districts and other 20 schools, we had to figure out a way to recognize that these 21 school districts may have holidays, and rather than the 22 Sheriff having the nightmare of saying, well, it's a holiday 23 in Hunt, but not anywhere else, and then trying to determine 24 if the individual they've stopped is a student at Hunt or 25 lives in Hunt Independent School District, I think we had 53 1 sort of talked it over -- I don't know if this is at 2 committee level or elsewhere -- that since the county had 3 all these different schools in it, that the thing to do 4 might be to say if any of those districts or schools have a 5 holiday, then it extends the curfew by an hour for the night 6 basically preceding that holiday. And, another thing I 7 wanted to mention, I think in response to -- may have been 8 Jonathan's question, but it seems to me like it would be 9 something real easy for Juvenile Probation to start keeping 10 real close numbers on numbers of kids referred for offenses 11 in the county, you know, and doing that probably as quickly 12 as trying to get Software Group to do something. They could 13 manually do that, I think, pretty easily and have some 14 numbers in the 6-month period. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm amazed that they 16 do not do that. I'm amazed. 17 MR. MOTLEY: I just -- I'm not sure exactly 18 what they -- what they do. I mean, that's never really been 19 an issue before, where the kid is from. It's more like what 20 they did and what we're going to try to do to help this -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Wayne, do you have a comment, 22 sir? 23 MR. ESTE: Yeah. I had not completed my 24 comment before Councilman Letz -- Commissioner Letz took 25 over. The question that we're asking there about the 54 1 holidays, probably six in a school year would be different, 2 with all the school districts. I don't think we're talking 3 about more than six. Now, other support for this program, 4 all of the school districts have supported it. The 5 Sheriff's Department has supported it. And we don't have 6 the City Council -- the City Council of Kerrville supporting 7 it yet, because it hasn't been presented. It has been 8 presented to quite a number of officers who are in favor. 9 Now, how does it work in Ingram? It works as a tool. It 10 doesn't work as a thing to stop good kids from running up 11 and down the streets. It works as a tool. 12 There's a tear-off sheet that's given when a 13 child is -- or someone below 17 years old is caught out 14 after hours, and on that tear-off sheet, if the officer 15 makes a determination that the child is in violation, he 16 checks them off. I would -- I would imagine Rusty and his 17 group would follow something very similar. I don't see this 18 as any manner in which we'd be harassing kids. I have a 19 16-year-old at home myself. I don't have any problem going 20 home tonight, gentlemen, and saying Daddy is in support of 21 this. You know, he would tell me it's a good thing, 'cause 22 he knows what's going on. Anybody that has children 16 23 years old, 15 years old, they know what's going on. Rusty 24 could tell you what's going on in the community. You know, 25 and I agree 100 percent with you, Jonathan. I don't like to 55 1 tell parents how to raise their children. Unfortunately, we 2 have a heck of a lot of parents in this community who are 3 not raising their children. Not you, not me, but there's a 4 lot of them. More and more every day. Ask any of these 5 people in this room that's in the school business; they'll 6 tell you. And it's not from my kids or your kids, but 7 there's a lot of people just not doing what they're supposed 8 to do. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My point on that is that 10 we're encouraging parents to take less responsibility 11 because the government's doing it for them. That's -- 12 anyway, we differ on that point. 13 MR. ESTE: Well, we can differ on that, and 14 I'm as conservative as anybody in this room, and I can tell 15 you one thing. I agree with you, but it's not going to 16 change unless you try to bring about a change. If there's a 17 $500 fine, that might bring some parenting skills into 18 focus, believe me. Thank you. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only the last 20 comment I would have is on the holidays, because the County 21 does encompass so many different school districts, and I 22 still think there are -- there could very easily be some 23 problems during those type holidays, I would possibly urge 24 that the Court to consider putting one time period, 25 regardless if it's -- if it's before a school holiday, 56 1 during school, or any other time. If we can try and 2 encompass just one hour, that's -- whether it's 12:00 or 3 whether it's 1:00, that we can go by with -- I just believe 4 in simplicity with the deputies, and that way they all know 5 exactly what it is. We don't have to keep up with the 6 school calendars and which one's in and which one's out. 7 Just a recommendation from my part. 8 MR. MOTLEY: Can I ask some clarification on 9 that? You're saying on the day or the night before a school 10 holiday or the early morning of a school holiday, to just -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm just saying on any 12 day of the year, you just have certain hours. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just have one time. 14 MR. MOTLEY: And don't worry about -- 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 1:01 to 6:00 or -- 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Don't worry about 17 whether it's weekends, holidays, or whatever, because we 18 have too many school districts in effect and it's just kind 19 of -- 20 MR. MOTLEY: Well, I'd like to do whatever is 21 going to make it easier to enforce. You know, that would be 22 my preference on -- on the thing. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: What I'm hearing is a 24 proposal that if we can look at the language, that the 25 definition of curfew hours would be curfew hour means 1:01 57 1 a.m. to 6 o'clock a.m. on any day, period. Any day of the 2 week, period. Is that -- 3 MR. MOTLEY: 1:01 to 6:00? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff, is that what you're 5 suggesting? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not going to suggest 7 the time; I'll let y'all determine it, but that's what I'm 8 suggesting for us for enforcement purposes, because it is 9 county-wide and does involve so many school districts. 10 MR. MOTLEY: And -- and then are we talking 11 about the same hours for summertime, Christmas break, spring 12 break? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: The same curfew 365 days a 14 year, 1 a.m. to 6 o'clock a.m. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Also makes it a lot 16 easier year to educate parents and kids as to what the 17 curfew is. 18 MR. ESTE: Did you say 1 a.m.? 19 MR. MOTLEY: 1:01 to 6:00 is what I -- he 20 didn't say, but -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the Juvenile 22 Board that recommended this and did their study of that will 23 probably have a -- you know, I can see that there's a 24 criminal aspect, but we'll probably have a better 25 recommendation on which hours should be adopted, whether it 58 1 be 12:00 or 1:00. 2 MR. MOTLEY: If the goal is, in fact, to 3 discourage or prevent juvenile crime, it really makes no 4 sense to have an extra hour on a week -- weekend night, 5 anyway, because it's just as likely -- probably more likely 6 to happen on a, you know, Saturday from 1:01 to 6:00 and a 7 Sunday, 1:01 to 6:00 as it is any other day. By giving them 8 an extra hour, you're sort of giving them, you know, extra 9 time to be out. But if your goal is to quell crime, it 10 seems that it would be -- it would make sense to have them 11 all the same time. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, since we have 13 several proposed minor word changes and now one rather 14 significant one, should we perhaps bring this back next 15 time? Although we've had the public hearing, we could bring 16 this back next time so that the committee has a chance to 17 work with David on coming up with the right language and the 18 right hours. Maybe it's 12:30, split the difference. But, 19 anyway -- and perhaps bring that back for a vote at a later 20 time. We're going to have a little trouble, I think, 21 getting to a corrected copy. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: With -- with just the 23 facts about that, like David's saying, if you add another 24 hour, it -- most of our problems probably are on weekends, 25 okay, so we wouldn't add another hour there. Can I say one 59 1 thing? I'd like to see, if it's going to be adopted, that 2 it's adopted as soon as possible so that we can go through 3 an educational period with the school districts, where -- 4 like, Henneke and I talked with our S.R.O. officers, our 5 School Resource Officers, that can start educating these 6 kids at school now to where we have them grouped up before 7 summer kicks in, and before possibly even spring break, to 8 where we can start having some meetings. So, with that -- 9 and just off the top of my head, with the types of crimes 10 that we're having and the hours, I would -- being forced to 11 do it, like I said, as a parent, I disagree with having to 12 do this, but as a law enforcement officer, I think it's 13 extremely necessary. I would recommend the hours of 12:01 14 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that consistent 16 with Ingram, Sheriff? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I have a copy of theirs 18 in here. 19 MR. ESTE: I think it's 11:00. 20 MR. MOTLEY: Ingram has a sliding -- our 21 original wording was consistent with Ingram, the 12:01 to 22 6:00 Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday; 1:01 to 23 6:00 on Saturday and Sunday. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But they have one school 25 district. They have -- 60 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If the argument is that 2 you shouldn't listen to the city -- or wait for the City of 3 Kerrville, we shouldn't necessarily rely on the City of 4 Ingram. We should -- 5 MR. MOTLEY: The deal with the City of Ingram 6 was for simplicity of enforcement by the Sheriff's 7 Department, so we wouldn't have a different standard over 8 there and -- and in Kerr County. Let me say that if the 9 Commissioners want to address Commissioner Letz' proposed 10 amendment regarding the 5 o'clock hunting business, and 11 also, either Jonathan's sunset provision or Commissioner 12 Williams' sunset provision, unless the City acts -- if you 13 want to do that, I can have you a printed copy of this with 14 the changes up here in 20 minutes, if that's what y'all 15 would like to do and do this tonight. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bill, under Defenses, 17 (1)(c), didn't you ask last time that we add interstate 18 travel to that as well as intrastate? 19 MR. MOTLEY: He asked me to look into that. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I did ask him to look 21 into that. 22 MR. MOTLEY: The reason that's in there is 23 because of the constitutional right for interstate commerce, 24 and that recognizes that right. There's no equivalent right 25 to travel intracounty, intercounty, or any -- any other 61 1 similar -- these defenses are placed in here in order to 2 make the statute attain the purpose as closely as possible 3 without stepping on somebody's constitutional rights, and 4 that's what they're designed to do. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you need a 6 defense for someone who's traveling through the county. How 7 can you break the -- have them breaking a curfew if they 8 don't even know that there's a curfew? How would they know 9 there's a curfew? I -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's kind of the 11 point I was making when I originally brought it up, having 12 intracounty travel listed as a defense. You go from one end 13 of the county to the other, it'll take you two hours. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That, to a certain extent, 15 defeats the whole purpose, because you're always traveling 16 intrastate wherever you're -- intercounty wherever you're 17 going. 18 MR. MOTLEY: Let me also mention that the 19 Sheriff's Department -- and I don't know if it actually is 20 spelled out in here, but the Sheriff's Department and the 21 deputies have a great deal of discretion, generally 22 speaking. And, you know, I would really trust them. I 23 would hope that they would not be stopping people out on, 24 you know, the interstate or on one of the highways and 25 trying to prosecute them under this if it's apparent that 62 1 they're not even citizens, you know, of the county. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I like, under D, under 3 Enforcement, what it says there. It says, "Before taking 4 any enforcement action under this section, a peace officer 5 or Kerr County Sheriff's Department officer shall ask the 6 apparent offender's age and the reason for being in the 7 public place. The officer shall not issue a citation or 8 make an arrest under this section unless the officer 9 reasonably believes that an offense has occurred and that, 10 based on any response and other circumstances, no defense in 11 Subsection C is present." 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're saying that your 13 office is -- under this enforcement clause, even if they 14 don't have any defense listed, you can let them off still. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, the way -- and a 16 lot of it, I think, goes along with traffic enforcement. I 17 think we need to be -- to use enough common sense to be able 18 to listen to people. We'll be contacting the parents, you 19 know, automatically when we find a child out or a teenager 20 out at those hours, and if the teenager says, "Well, I'm 21 getting ready to go hunting," you know, "I'm just headed 22 over to this location," I can probably contact the parents 23 and find out if that's true, if the parent knew it. You 24 know, a lot of this -- to me, a lot of the reason is so that 25 we have a way of contacting these kids, making sure parents 63 1 know they're out there. The problem kids we constantly have 2 that the parents do not care enough about to -- to enforce 3 their own curfew hours, then it does give us an 4 opportunity -- opportunity to enforce those kind of things. 5 But, I think a lot of it needs to be dealt with. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Enough said by me. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have one other 8 comment, Judge. David, I'm going to withdraw my request for 9 a sunset on the basis of what I'm reading in Section 3, 10 Review. Because, after six months, when the Sheriff comes 11 back here and reports the effectiveness of it has been 12 diminished considerably, one of the reasons for that 13 diminution of effectiveness is going to be because the City 14 of Kerrville either did or did not. And if they have not, 15 the Sheriff's going to come back and report it, so I think 16 it's covered. 17 MR. MOTLEY: But it still dramatically 18 improves the statistics in Kerr County. So, I mean, it 19 could have a great effect in Kerr County. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That might be. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You won't know, because 22 you don't have any statistics. 23 MR. MOTLEY: Well, we tried to get 24 statistics. I will tell you -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You just told me you 64 1 don't have any for the county. 2 MR. MOTLEY: I said we tried to get 3 statistics in every manner and were unable to get them in a 4 way -- other than hiring somebody to manually go through 5 every piece of paper in the Sheriff's Department. So -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Like I said, you don't 7 have statistics; you're not going to have anything to 8 compare. 9 MR. MOTLEY: We have statistics in here that 10 are valid statistics. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm just saying, David, 12 you're not going to have any statistics for the county. And 13 you don't have them. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have them. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Commissioner Letz, we do 16 have them, okay? The thing is, is juvenile records have to 17 be separated from adult reports, so I have a certain filing 18 area at the Sheriff's Office for all our juvenile offense 19 reports, okay? You'd have to go through them individually 20 to see how many kids you dealt with in this offense or -- or 21 things like that. With a 6-month review-type period, I can 22 get somebody to go through that so that we have those when I 23 do a comparison to the six months before curfew and six 24 months after curfew. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 65 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can -- I believe I can 2 give you a pretty accurate review with those. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That would be helpful, if 4 you can do that. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I got something to 6 say. I think that most of us agree that this is a parental 7 responsibility. It's not the government's responsibility to 8 intervene in families; however, you're going to do it, 9 because some families don't do their job back there. But, 10 I -- it's -- that is not complicated to me. If they're 11 breaking the law, I would assume that you'd arrest them and 12 put them in jail, or the Juvenile people would arrest those 13 -- the juveniles and put them in jail. But, I'm hanging in 14 here on the City needs to do it first, because of the fact 15 that this 58 percent here -- although we don't know where 16 the problems occur, I would be willing to bet somebody an 17 ROC Coca Cola that the majority of that 58 percent is inside 18 the city. And, I just -- I just see us going throughout the 19 county here piece-mealing a curfew law, and I'm opposed to 20 Kerr County adopting this right now until the -- we find out 21 what the City's going to do. If the City doesn't do it, 22 I'll be happy to take a look at it. And -- and I am in 23 favor of the sunset in order to -- as Commissioner Letz 24 said, that, you know, if the thing is not working, it's 25 over. But then we can take a proactive approach to it of 66 1 getting the reporting in here. And, again, I cannot believe 2 the Juvenile folks that are basically State employees don't 3 run the numbers on these kind of things. That they would 4 get those reports in so that we can take a proactive 5 approach to it and move forward. I'm opposed to it this 6 evening, though. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Barbara? 8 MS. NEMEC: Judge, is there a certain amount 9 of time that this proposed order needs to be published? For 10 a public hearing? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: It was. We set the public 12 hearing on January 22nd. 13 MS. NEMEC: I guess my concern is that on 14 the -- on 2.3, it has public hearing on proposed order; 2.4, 15 consider and discuss adopting the proposed order. And, it 16 seems to me that we're changing this order completely, I 17 mean, in a lot of different areas. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's -- that's permissible. 19 We've had the public hearing on the order, and now we can 20 debate and amend the order. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's probably right, 22 although it's not fair. 23 MS. NEMEC: I'm just thinking, you might have 24 had more people attend the public hearing with these other 25 changes that are being talked about. 67 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't see any reason to 2 have another public hearing, Judge. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: The changes that have been 4 discussed, do we want to walk through them? The 5 definition -- change the definition of curfew hours to 6 simply read curfew hours means 12:01 a.m. until 6 o'clock 7 a.m. 8 MR. MOTLEY: 12:01? Is that correct? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what's I heard 10 suggested by the Sheriff's Department, which would then 11 delete the necessity for (b) and (c). 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, we went from 12:01 13 to 1:01. Now we're back 12:01? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what's I heard the 15 Sheriff suggest, 12:01 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That would be my 17 recommendation. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait a minute. That's 19 the Sheriff, though. He's the Sheriff. We have the 20 attorneys here. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm -- I'm reviewing the 22 suggestions. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's unfair to 25 the rural areas of the county. I mean, I don't know if 68 1 Larry feels that way, but my constituents are way to the 2 east out there; a lot of Larry's are out west. They have to 3 leave pretty early, I mean, you're talking -- to get home. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, they all 5 have wagons down there. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, anyway -- 7 MR. MOTLEY: We're also talking about people 8 that are 16 years of age and under, is what we're talking 9 about. Anybody 17 or over is not covered. We're talking 10 about 16-year-old kids. And my way of thinking is, maybe if 11 they live in the east end of the county, they ought to be 12 getting home -- heading that way 30 minutes -- or, like, 13 11:30, they can start home to Comfort. That's just my 14 thoughts about it. I mean -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other suggestions? The 16 other suggestion that was made relates to review; turn that 17 into a sunset as opposed to a review. I'm not sure that we 18 have any consensus on that. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm a sunsetter. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sunsetter. 21 (Discussion off the record.) 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Either way. It will 23 work either way. 24 MR. MOTLEY: It terminates six months after 25 the passage date unless other action is taken by the Court 69 1 to continue it? Or -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what we're -- we're -- 3 there's no consensus on that at this time. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have -- certainly 5 have no objection to wording it that way. I think the 6 effect is going to be the same. I think it's obvious the 7 Court's going to address it six months from now. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we're going to consider a 9 sunset, I would be more comfortable with a year, as opposed 10 to six months. If we're going to review it, I think six 11 months is an appropriate time. If we're going to sunset, I 12 think we ought to give it a year to have the ability to 13 evaluate its effectiveness. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that. Six 15 months review and a one-year sunset. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How about both? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's fine. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Six months review and 19 one-year sunset. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 'Cause you never know 21 how firm these review things are. They come along and it 22 just kind of -- it will kind of just pass through here and 23 we -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll bet you Jonathan 25 won't forget this one. 70 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, he won't forget 2 this one, but I've seen -- they review things just kind of 3 past one door and out the other, and if we sunset it -- if 4 there's a sunset clause on there, it will stop here at this 5 table. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can guarantee you. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A year's fine. I just 9 want to -- I mean, some accountability. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: The review period will be the 11 same, and we'll add a -- a section which will relate to 12 sunset, which will state that this order shall terminate 13 automatically one year after its enactment unless -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Extended by the Court. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- extended or reenacted by 16 -- by the Commissioners -- by a majority vote of the 17 Commissioners Court, or something to that effect. 18 MR. MOTLEY: Renew -- maybe say renewed by 19 Commissioners Court at that time. In all seriousness, you 20 were talking about different things that have been 21 mentioned. I know that Commissioner Letz did say something 22 in particular about hunting as one of the defenses. Is 23 there a consensus of the Court on that issue? Or -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, to be 25 honest, I think you're going to have to rely on the Sheriff 71 1 to be -- you know, his judgment. I mean, 'cause there's 2 lots of things -- I mean, I can keep on going on and on for 3 reasons for kids to be out during that period. And most of 4 them, I guess, fall in the general category that they have 5 parents' permission to be there. And, we're just going to 6 see how good a job Rusty does, and his department. 7 MR. MOTLEY: I can have this back up here in 8 a little while if y'all want to do it tonight. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, let's -- I think -- 10 does everyone understand the -- the proposed amendments, at 11 least -- let's say does anyone have any objection to the 12 proposed amendments? The simplification of the time, 13 definition of curfew, and the provision of the one-year 14 sunset? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the curfew 16 hours? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: 12:01 a.m. to 6 o'clock a.m. 18 is what's been suggested by the Sheriff. If we accept that, 19 that's what it will be. 20 MR. MOTLEY: 12:01 to 6 o'clock. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under 2 A, 22 Definitions, Subsection (c), all of that verbiage with 23 respect to holidays comes out? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: (b) and (c) comes out. 25 Anything else? If not, I'd entertain a motion to adopt the 72 1 order as amended. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 5 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 6 adopt the order establishing a County Juvenile Nocturnal 7 Curfew for Minors in areas located in Kerr County, Texas 8 outside the city limits of incorporated or chartered 9 municipalities, as amended. Any further questions or 10 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 11 (Commissioners Williams and Griffin indicated by raised hand that they were in favor of 12 the motion.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 14 (Commissioners Baldwin and Letz indicated by raised hand that they were opposed to the 15 motion.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Judge votes aye. The order 17 is adopted. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll go on record, my 19 no vote was because I think that the biggest problem we have 20 is inside the city, and I think the City needs to take care 21 of that problem before the County does. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One comment. Do you 23 have an effective date? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would like to amend the 25 order to make the effective date April the 1st. Anyone have 73 1 any objection to that? 2 MR. MOTLEY: Your Honor, I believe the order 3 is written -- you said -- you said you wanted to amend that? 4 I believe it said it was effective immediately from and 5 after its passage and publication in accordance with 6 provisions of state law. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're going to make it 8 effective April 1st. 9 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. Will that allow adequate 10 time for all -- whatever publications are required? 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll move it. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I moved it. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 15 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the order 16 become effective April 1st, Year 2001. Any questions or 17 comments? All in favor, raise your right hand. 18 (Commissioners Williams, Letz, and Griffin indicated by raised hand that they were in 19 favor of the motion.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. At 23 this time, I believe it would be a good time to take a 24 little break. Let's be back promptly at 10 minutes after 25 8:00. 74 1 (Recess taken from 7:58 p.m. to 8:10 p.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is now 10 after 8:00 on 4 Monday, February 26th, Year 2001, and we will reconvene and 5 resume this regular special Commissioners Court meeting. 6 Next item for consideration is Item Number 5, consider and 7 discuss resolution authorizing the issuance of $225,000 8 dollars in principal amount of Lake Ingram Estates Road 9 District unlimited tax bonds, Series 2001, authorizing the 10 execution of a paying agent/registrar agreement, and 11 containing other matters relating to the subject. 12 Commissioner Griffin. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. After -- at long 14 last, since the election was held for this road district 15 back on August the 12th, it looks as if we're about to the 16 point of pulling the trigger on selling the bonds and 17 getting the work started up in Lake Ingram Estates. The 18 Commissioners all have packages there. Most of this is 19 verbiage and documents that are required by law. Bob 20 Henderson is going to make a brief explanation of what the 21 documents are and answer any questions that we may have 22 regarding anything that you come up with or questions in 23 there. Bob? 24 MR. HENDERSON: Thank you, Commissioner. I 25 would also like to introduce Tom Spurgeon, who's with our 75 1 firm McCall, Parkhurst and Horton. Tom is the bond attorney 2 that actually drew up the order and the other documents 3 related to the transaction. What I'm going to do is just 4 take a couple moments and go over the business points, and 5 then let Mr. Spurgeon explain the legal documents. As the 6 Commissioner just noted, and I think all of you are 7 abundantly aware, the Commissioners Court took action last 8 April to create the road district. There was an election 9 last August. Unfortunately, we had more difficulty than we 10 were anticipating in getting an interested investor. With 11 the great perseverance of Commissioner Griffin, we were able 12 to finally convince a representative of a bank from the Rio 13 Grande Valley to come over and spend the afternoon looking 14 at the property and hearing our pitch, and the bank then 15 very quickly did approve the transaction. 16 We have gone through a number of different 17 variations on the business points of this transaction, but 18 very simply, they are this. The bank will buy the full 19 amount of bonds, $225,000. They will be at a tax-exempt 20 interest rate. That interest rate will be 9 percent, which 21 is higher than we had talked about, but due to the credit, 22 that was the only bank we were able to get interested in the 23 debt. However, we got very favorable other terms that's 24 going to allow us a great deal of latitude. We put a 4-year 25 par hall on the bonds, which means that in four years, we 76 1 can refinance these bonds with no penalty, and based on the 2 growth that we're expecting in the district, the credit 3 rating of the district or the creditworthiness of the 4 district will be substantially better, and we can refinance 5 the bonds at that time. 6 We also had originally talked about putting, 7 as one of the local banks had requested, a -- a balloon 8 payment in the debt. We were able to negotiate -- and I 9 want to credit Tom Spurgeon for the idea -- a placement of 10 the full 30-year amortization schedule. There is a special 11 "put" provision in the bonds that will allow the bank, at 12 the end of 10 years -- instead of having a balloon payment, 13 putting all the debt back to the road district, at the end 14 of 10 years, they have to proactively select a put option, 15 and then -- then would only put up as much as 20 percent per 16 year for over five years to pay off the debt. We did that 17 in order to -- to manage the tax rate that the district 18 might otherwise have to levy in the event we're not able to 19 refinance. I don't believe that we're going to have any 20 problem at all refinancing the debt, based on the 21 projections of growth. And, what I'd like to do is share 22 with you a table that we devised, "we" being Commissioner 23 Griffin and myself, which gives a projection of what we 24 anticipate happening. 25 As you're aware, the appraised value of the 77 1 district at this time for -- for Year 2000 was $1,467,000. 2 We are expecting about 5 percent growth, based on 3 evaluation, and potentially more than that. Based on the 4 timetable that the Commissioner has laid out with respect to 5 constructing these improvements, the Appraisal District can 6 come back and revalue the properties even after 1/1. And 7 that's not retroactive, of course, but it allows them, for 8 January 1 of 2002, to have current market values based on 9 the improvements that will be in place at that time. 10 We would have a tax rate that first year of a 11 dollar and a half. Now, that is higher than the approximate 12 $1.15, $1.18 that voters were told at the time of that 13 election, the reason being that we had a higher interest 14 rate than was originally anticipated. However, there is 15 already substantial activity going on out in the district in 16 terms of property being turned over and -- and developers 17 ready to go. You see assumptions at the bottom of the page 18 with respect to the growth figures, and you can see that we 19 are anticipating the tax rate to fall immediately in the 20 second year to just over $1; the year after that, down to 75 21 cents; the year after that, under 60 cents. And, we're 22 anticipating, then, in approximately the fifth year, to go 23 out and refinance that debt. 24 The projection of interest rates we are 25 assuming is 6 and a quarter percent. Obviously, we can't 78 1 know until 2005, 2006, exactly what that interest rate would 2 be. Then, after the refinancing and the continued growth, 3 we'd expect the tax rate to settle in at about 40 cents per 4 $100 assessed valuation. But, I think it is important 5 Commissioners Court be aware that, based on the current 6 assessed valuation of the road district -- and if there is 7 no growth in the district, which I think we all agree there 8 will be, but the worst case scenario. If there were no 9 growth, I think the district would be looking at a tax rate 10 something in the neighborhood of $1.40, $1.50. Any 11 questions about the business points? The interest rates? 12 Terms? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Let me just say that I 14 think -- I think Bob has done a good job of conservatively 15 estimating the growth figure, particularly those assumptions 16 at the bottom of the page. I think there's no assumption 17 made in here that's not easily reachable with the market 18 conditions the way they are today. Wouldn't have to have a 19 boom, is what I'm saying. Those are conservative estimates. 20 MR. HENDERSON: Hearing no questions, I'll 21 turn it over to Mr. Spurgeon, and he will address the order 22 authorizing issuance of the debt and other particulars, as 23 may be the desire of the Court. Thank you. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Bob. 25 MR. SPURGEON: Judge and Commissioners, you 79 1 have in front of you, I believe, a copy of the order that 2 would actually authorize the issuance of the bonds. The 3 order -- as Commissioner Griffin pointed out, there's an 4 awful lot of verbiage in the order, itself, but it does 5 formally authorize the issuance of the $225,000 of bonds, 6 awards them to First National Bank of Edinburg, sets the 7 interest rate at 9 percent. Bob mentioned how it sets out 8 the maturity schedule, 30-year maturity schedule. That's 9 set out also in the order, and most importantly, also 10 obligates the payment of -- or the levy of a tax over the 11 30-year period. All of the redemption provisions that Bob 12 was referring to and the whole optional put redemption 13 process that's there to really protect the taxpayers from 14 the possibility of a substantial balloon payment are all set 15 out in the order. I'd be glad to answer any specific 16 questions you might have to that. Other than that, it would 17 just take passage of the order to sort of set all that in 18 motion. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just one quick 20 question. 21 MR. SPURGEON: Yes, sir? 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Question, Tom. This 23 package goes to -- I mean, obviously, we have to execute it 24 with the -- with the bank, but it also goes to the Attorney 25 General? 80 1 MR. SPURGEON: That's correct. That's right, 2 under state law. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I wanted the Court to 4 be aware of that. They review it, make sure that 5 everything's hunky-dory and bless it and all that sort of 6 thing. 7 MR. SPURGEON: That's correct. That's right. 8 And, going through the process, Commissioner, this -- it 9 will take essentially three to four weeks before we've had 10 that completed and the funds would be available for the -- 11 for the road district at that point. So, it's -- roughly 12 the end of March, this should be levied. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This money will be set 14 up in a special account for that, and everybody's got to 15 keep their hands off it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Jon, your new bridge. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 18 questions or comments of Mr. Spurgeon? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thanks, Tom. 20 MR. SPURGEON: You bet. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll make the motion 22 that we approve the order as written -- or submitted and 23 written, and authorize the signatures as required. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 81 1 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 2 approve the resolution authorizing the issuance of $225,000 3 in principal amount of Lake Ingram Estates Road District 4 unlimited tax road bonds, Series 2001, authorizing the 5 execution of the paying agent/registrar agreement and other 6 matters related to the subject. Any further questions or 7 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I hope you have good 13 notes as to how you did this. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I do. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next time we have one. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. The next item -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, if I may, on 18 that point, just for a moment, just say I want to 19 congratulate the people at the Lake Ingram Estates Road 20 District for taking the initiative to really pursue this. 21 It was their work that really pulled it off, and I think 22 it's -- it really shows responsible citizenship. They 23 didn't ask for a handout, they didn't ask for anything. 24 They just came and said, "What do we do to get our road 25 right?" And -- and we looked at all the options, and this 82 1 was a good way to do it. And, they are all to be commended. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Outstanding. Absolutely. 3 Okay. The next item is Item Number 7, which is consider and 4 discuss presentation by Kerr County 9-1-1 Network and board 5 members on the current status/future plans for 9-1-1 6 capabilities. Commissioner Griffin. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. You recall some 8 months ago we talked about setting up a regularly scheduled 9 update for 9-1-1 Network. The board has -- has taken 10 action; they've gotten with T. and I think have come up with 11 -- with a reporting method that I know they're still working 12 on, and we'll probably see fleshed out in more detail in the 13 future. But, this is the first one, and -- and I want to 14 thank the board and T. and the -- the rest of the staff for 15 producing it, and we'll look forward to many more. So, it's 16 all yours. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm kind of putting on 18 the other hat right now as Chairman of the Board for 9-1-1. 19 When I went on the board a few months ago, I'll be honest -- 20 and T. definitely knows it, T. being Executive Director -- I 21 had a lot of questions. I had a lot of doubts. I had a lot 22 of unanswered things that I wasn't sure how well 9-1-1 was 23 really doing and how far along Kerr County had come. A lot 24 of those I feel have been answered to my satisfaction now. 25 And, I think we have another board member -- we have present 83 1 Dave Ballard. And, one of the big things I think you can 2 see is the maps. We furnished y'all with a map as of right 3 now of the district that was printed out by 9-1-1, the roads 4 on that map which do not have names and do have numbers, or 5 duplicate roads or roads that need names, that are unnamed. 6 And on that map, a lot of them were left blank. We didn't 7 actually -- they aren't blank, but we didn't put the numbers 8 on the map; if we did, it would just be covered with numbers 9 and it would be hard to decipher the map. But, let me -- if 10 I may, I want to show you -- this is a preliminary map, 11 and -- we may have to turn it up, T. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can turn it around 13 so more of the audience can see it. I can see it fine. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's a preliminary map 15 as of right now of the 9-1-1 district, which I think is 16 improved greatly over all the maps I've seen in the past, a 17 lot more than they presented. We have furnished each of 18 y'all in your respective precincts with a book that you have 19 that has a list and a diagram or a map location of all the 20 -- either the unnamed roads or the duplicate-named roads in 21 your respective precincts. You know, they're highlighted in 22 yellow in that book. And, what I could kind of recommend 23 and hope, in the spirit of cooperation, that we can get 24 these duplicate names and these unnamed roads taken care of 25 as soon as possible. If you need more information as to who 84 1 the owners of the property are along those roads to help do 2 that, T. has told me that he'd be more than happy -- and his 3 office would be more than happy to assist y'all with that. 4 But, those are a list of all the road names. 5 As far as progress, once we get those roads 6 named and all the duplication taken care of, I've been 7 informed that it would take about three weeks to print out a 8 complete map or pretty well finalized map of the district, 9 barring any new roads going in or new subdivisions going in 10 on that part. One of the things that -- that was hampering 11 9-1-1 in the past was getting the parcels actually 12 identified so that we could go along with the addressing and 13 with the naming of roads. And, this is where -- since the 14 guidelines were adopted by this Commissioners Court, City of 15 Ingram, and -- and City of Kerrville, 9-1-1 has shown a 16 drastic improvement in this, which is shown on this diagram 17 here. 18 On the -- on the bottom map first, it's -- 19 the parcels that were identified as of February of 1999 are 20 the ones shown in red. Okay? The parcels that are 21 identified now in -- mapped in there on the top are shown in 22 red. So, you can see a drastic improvement throughout the 23 county on getting all the parcel data in there. You have to 24 have that data before you can get into the addressing. And, 25 like I said, before I went on the board, I was not too up on 85 1 a lot of this procedure that 9-1-1 has to go through to get 2 all this information, and it is a very time-consuming 3 information -- or time-consuming task. 4 One other thing that the board has done is, 5 9-1-1 has two permanent employees, full-time employees that 6 -- that were having to do all this work. And, this -- in 7 this budget year, the 9-1-1 Board adopted and authorized 8 9-1-1 to hire two temporary employees to assist with that, 9 and what they are doing is a lot of the office work, the 10 phone calls verifying owners. We have a large number of 11 owners in the county that actually live out of the county, 12 so they've got to be tracked down and -- and found before a 13 lot of this can be done in the parcel, and the -- and the 14 area identified. Some of the -- the things that -- that 15 need to be addressed are in the 9-1-1 system right now, 16 there is currently probably -- or there is over 40,000 17 addresses in that system. Now, some of that are what we 18 call route addresses, which is what I have to deal with as 19 Sheriff a lot, which it comes out on the 9-1-1 printout as a 20 code. That's a routing deal by the phone company. T. 21 Sandlin and the phone companies are working together. 22 They're working on a conversional map to get that taken care 23 of, so I think that's moving along great, and we'll get a 24 lot of that done. 25 Now, as far as a timetable of having the 86 1 majority of the county addressed, or just about all of the 2 county addressed, once the map is finalized and to where we 3 have all the issues there, the unnamed roads and duplicate 4 roads done, at that point, if you could freeze the growth in 5 the county, okay, because there's a maintenance issue 6 constantly; anybody moves, it has to be updated with the new 7 owner or anything like that. If you could actually freeze 8 the county, it would take us, according to T., approximately 9 eight months to complete the addressing throughout the 10 county. But, the factors in there are new subdivisions 11 going in, things like that. As far as since the guidelines 12 were issued, there have been -- or were adopted, and this 13 number is a little bit low, on the west end of the county, 14 about 844 permanent -- permanent addresses, and on the east 15 end, there's about 160-something, T.? 16 MR. SANDLIN: Sorry? 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On the east end, 18 permanent addresses since the guidelines, about 19 160-something? 20 MR. SANDLIN: Yes. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. It's -- it's a 22 little bit misleading when you look at that, because the way 23 an address is done, to do it properly, they go out to each 24 area and there is an address potential in the guidelines for 25 every 52.8 feet that fronts a road. So, you may have 87 1 somebody that has one -- one owner, or they own one piece of 2 property, but it may front a road by over 500 feet or 1,000 3 feet. Well, you have to find the exact location of their 4 house in correlation with how far it is along the road and 5 give it that address. But, at the same time, you have taken 6 care of any future needs if that area subdivides or that 7 owner subdivides his place, 'cause you've already set in 8 place the ability to go ahead and give other addresses for 9 every 52.8 feet without having to readdress that addition or 10 that plot or that -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Been nice if they'd 12 done that a long time ago. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And so I think that is 14 fabulous, yeah. Because in my time in Kerr County, it's 15 very unfortunate how many big ranches I've seen get broke up 16 into small areas. So -- I think we've all seen that. So, I 17 think, really, all-in-all -- and we're addressing some other 18 things. We're -- T.'s having to report to us how far along 19 in our monthly meetings. We're not trying to micro-manage 20 T., but we do want to know how many addresses they've done, 21 what they've got accomplished. The board has adopted that 22 where T. does have to report that. And I think, as a whole, 23 9-1-1 is definitely on the move, and I think we can maybe 24 not quite see the light at the end of the tunnel because of 25 the growth that Kerr County's going through right now, but 88 1 we're getting real close. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Question. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, sir? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In the books, are 5 these all -- or is there any key to tell us which roads are 6 private, which ones are public roads? 7 MR. SANDLIN: On a lot of them, I don't know. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the thing. A lot 9 of them may be public-access private roads or private roads, 10 but those are roads that have been identified. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. The reason I 12 ask is because there are different procedures required in 13 naming a public road versus a private road. We've got to 14 know that. You know, in fact, we might be able to 15 cross-correlate some of this, and we'll ask Road and Bridge 16 maybe to take a look at it. I don't know if that's 17 databased out there at Road and Bridge, but we might be able 18 to come up with roads that are on the list. You know, if we 19 can just get -- I can go, you know, for example, to Precinct 20 4 and I have a list that I think is relatively current, 21 public roads that are in the county system. If I've got 22 those, then I can go through this book and I know then which 23 ones are going to have to be addressed through a private 24 process and which ones are going to have to be handled a 25 little differently. Naming or renaming of a public road 89 1 requires a public hearing. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Where the private 4 roads do not. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's why I suggest 6 those locate and show you all the roads, okay? And that's 7 why I think the only way to get this done in a -- in a very 8 timely fashion is any of those y'all have questions about -- 9 and as you saw, with the number of parcels that have been 10 identified, T. or 9-1-1 can definitely assist in any way, 11 and are willing to assist in any way to get all these roads 12 cleared up, because that is an important issue before we can 13 get all the addressing done. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: First, congratulations to 15 T. and the board and everybody. I think y'all have come a 16 long way in the past year. I'm sure T.'s surprised to ever 17 hear something nice come out of my voice. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will say, I think it's 19 a lot to do with everybody. The education I got was once 20 all the entities got together and finally adopted a set of 21 guidelines for the road-naming and the addressing, and it 22 wasn't a piece-meal type deal, I think that really made a 23 big difference on getting 9-1-1 moving. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, my question is, how 25 -- what is the relationship between Road and Bridge and 90 1 9-1-1? Because what I'm looking at -- I know that they have 2 a different -- they have a different name on Lane Valley 3 East; they have a different name on that road. They call 4 that South Fork, and the road's not South Fork, so I'm 5 wondering what the -- how are we coordinating on -- or what 6 is the coordination? And -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the part that 8 really has to be worked on, because T.'s -- a lot of those 9 names he gets in that are from -- from the plats, from 10 people, that this is what we've always called it, this is 11 what it is, and that's why you have the duplication. And, 12 it just -- the only way I see that all of this can be taken 13 care of is for everybody to continue drastically to work 14 together, and we're going to have to ask Road and Bridge how 15 they got that name, okay? Where that originated from. 16 9-1-1 needs to know where they got theirs, where that 17 originated from. And, then you have to work with the Post 18 Office and -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think there's a 20 way -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- everybody else. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- we can resolve the 23 differences that we have with what's in these books with 24 Road and Bridge, because Truby does maintain a master list 25 of County-maintained roads, so she can quickly answer -- we 91 1 should be able to resolve those differences pretty quickly 2 and just mark them in the book and get that back with -- 3 with T. and say, "Hey, this is what our records reflect and 4 here's the court order that reflected them," 'cause that's 5 in that same database. On the private roads, I think, 6 though -- if we're starting on private roads, they come to 7 you first now, do they not? People come to you if they want 8 a name on a private road? 9 MR. SANDLIN: I believe it's -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: To make sure that 11 their proposal is in the guidelines? 12 MR. SANDLIN: For private or public roads, 13 the guidelines call for them to go to the entity and start 14 the process, be it county or city or city, and then that 15 gets forwarded to us to check to make sure the road name 16 gets in and all that stuff. Otherwise, if they come to us 17 first, that's fine. We'll tell them who they need to 18 contact, and if they've already got a suggested name for the 19 road, that's fine. If it's something -- we've sent y'all 20 the PDO's and stuff I do showing you where you -- where the 21 roads are. If it's something we can do quickly, we'll do 22 it. Otherwise, we'll go ahead and GPS the road and whatever 23 it takes to get something so somebody can see a picture, 24 say, "Here's this road that needs a name." But, as far as 25 being able to track all these as to which are public and 92 1 private, I don't know of a -- a database, and we haven't 2 been the ones to determine whether or not it's a public or 3 private road. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the closest 5 thing to that database is at Road and Bridge, because they 6 do have a list of all the maintained roads, the length, 7 court order that they were accepted under, the date that 8 they were accepted under, how long they are. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think it's going to 10 take a lot from Road and Bridge to help solve a lot of 11 these -- these road deals. One thing I'd like to say before 12 I sit down is -- and it's probably well-known, because I'm 13 pretty vocal on a lot of things -- that T. and I had a lot 14 of issues when I got appointed to 9-1-1. But, as Sheriff, 15 there's been about three different incidences when we needed 16 T., okay? And, true, these -- some of them were directly 17 related to 9-1-1, some were not, the most recent being 18 helping us, the Sheriff's Department, locate a Bobcat 19 tractor that was stolen out of Comal County one morning, and 20 with a GPS tracking system on it. They said -- the tracking 21 company says, "It's right here." Well, "right here" meant 22 somewhere inside Kerr County, but they gave us coordinates. 23 I, at the Sheriff's Office, have no way of plotting those 24 coordinates, figuring out exactly where it is and 25 everything. We called on T. Sandlin to come over and help 93 1 us with that. He went out there and within just a few 2 minutes, we were able to locate that tractor on a private 3 ranch. 4 That's not exactly a 9-1-1 duty, but it did 5 give him the benefit of being able to see if a system 9-1-1 6 can do is -- is accurate and will work correctly, such as if 7 you have a -- a person out here that has one of these 8 monitors on the -- to where if he needs emergency help -- 9 maybe he's out in a field plowing or doing something else 10 and is having a heart attack and pushes one of those alerts. 11 A lot of times, that will come in as a coordinate deal, and 12 you need to get help to him immediately. And, I think 13 that's a direct function of 9-1-1, and this shows us that 14 that system can work. We can narrow that down, which I 15 think is a system nobody really sees, but can be of -- of 16 dramatic impact on the county and on 9-1-1. 17 Couple of the other things that we've asked 18 9-1-1 -- or law enforcement agencies and them have asked 19 9-1-1 to do during the fire incident on Sheppard Rees. Of 20 course, I think that in some ways may have been related to 21 9-1-1, as I got educated more, 'cause 9-1-1 is emergency 22 communications, and we had so many different fire 23 departments, different radio channels, things like that. 24 T. actually got up there and managed that and was kind of 25 pretty well the dispatcher for that entire coordinated 94 1 effort to put out the fire. And, I think that was 2 definitely needed, and I applaud T. for that. The other -- 3 last thing that T. has helped us with law enforcement all 4 around, and is not a direct issue of 9-1-1, but it was our 5 drug-free school zone, to where if you go stop people out 6 from a school, okay? Without good maps and good 7 coordinations -- I don't have a 1,000-foot tape measure that 8 I'd have to go traipsing through people's back yards, figure 9 out what the school zone is. And, T. was able to put that 10 together, and so we have those mapped and actually done. 11 So, I really feel 9-1-1 is -- is definitely on the move. I 12 think we're really heading in the right direction, and at 13 this point, I'm very proud to be Chairman of that board. 14 Thank you all. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good report. Thanks. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you for the 19 presentation. We look forward to regular ones on the 20 progress. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll have lots of 22 progress by the end of the year. We're going to have it 23 done early, end of the first quarter. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Some of you have more work to 25 do than others. 95 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, the precinct that 3 gets this back first gets their roads done first? Is that 4 how it works? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no, no. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Probably just gets the 7 first hollering by 9-1-1. They have to do their part. 8 MR. SANDLIN: Can I ask a quick question 9 before we get off of this? Do y'all -- who do I need to 10 coordinate with at Road and Bridge? Truby? Is that who 11 we -- I just want to make sure -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: She maintains the 13 database, so that's where we need to start. We probably 14 need to -- we need to work this some and see what's the best 15 way to build the right database and maintain it. 16 MR. BALLARD: Probably help if somebody like 17 Truby could be a single point of contact. Sometimes it gets 18 kind of confusing with the -- 9-1-1 has to work with each 19 individual Commissioner or his rep. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we've been 21 using Truby as a single point of contact for several months, 22 because she said she would database all of the road names 23 and make sure that there's a name associated with every road 24 when they get named. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Once again, 96 1 thank you for the presentation. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're welcome. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 8, 4 authorization to purchase a pager for $39, monthly service 5 fee of $9.95, to be taken out of line item 10-403-420. 6 Nadene, you're going to present this in Jannett's absence? 7 MS. ALFORD: Yes, sir. We have to issue 8 Burial Transit Permits, and they have to be signed by one of 9 the deputies to the funeral homes when they have to 10 transport a body. And, since sometimes the body has to be 11 transported on the weekends or during -- after 5:00 and 12 that, this is how we figured out that we could -- to get a 13 hold of one of us who would be on-call. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is a new requirement, I 15 understand? 16 MS. ALFORD: Yes, by the State. They're 17 requiring to us do this. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Should we send Rick 20 Perry the bill for 39 bucks? By golly? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Really. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the fund -- funds 23 are coming out of what line item? 24 MS. ALFORD: I believe this is her telephone 25 line item. 97 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 4 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court authorize 5 the County Clerk to purchase a pager for $39, with a monthly 6 service fee of $9.95, to be on-call for Burial Transit 7 Permits, with the funds to be taken out of Line Item 8 10-403-420. Any questions or comments? If not, all in 9 favor, raise your right hands. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 14 MS. ALFORD: Thank you. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Nadene. Next item 16 is Item Number 9, consider vacating, abandoning, and 17 discontinuing dedicated road Number 12, Turtle Creek 18 Ranches, as recorded in Volume 158, Page 358 of Kerr County 19 Deed Records. Franklin? 20 MR. JOHNSTON: A little background. Turtle 21 Creek Ranches -- I think it's a non-recorded subdivision, 22 but as part of their non-recording, they dedicated all the 23 road easements to the public. Somehow they did that. You 24 know, one of the easements they -- the property owners have 25 several lots surrounding an easement. I don't think there's 98 1 even a road built. It's just an easement. 2 MR. LESLIE: Right. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: All boils down to two owners 4 that own multiple lots, and they want to abandon that 5 easement. As far as the particulars, I think Craig Leslie 6 has more information on that, but that's basically what 7 we're talking about. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it in a platted 9 subdivision? 10 MR. LESLIE: Excuse me? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is it in a platted 12 subdivision? 13 MR. LESLIE: No. I think this is what 14 happened. Some people named Brewer and Rainey years ago did 15 this, and they didn't want to plat it, so they sold all of 16 the tracts by metes and bounds. And, their easy solution to 17 this was they did a deed that says, "We dedicate these roads 18 to the public," and there's 24 separate roads just going all 19 through there, and there's the deed. And -- 20 MR. JOHNSTON: "Roads," in quotes. They're 21 really just kind of easements, not roads. Actually built on 22 most of them. Some of them do, some don't. 23 MR. LESLIE: And, in our particular case, 24 there's -- this little road just goes out there about 25 200 yards and ends. And -- well, as a matter of fact, we 99 1 have the parties here that -- so everybody that's affected 2 by this road is -- is in touch. The Davis' here own two 3 tracts on the road. The Lynch's own a tract on the road, 4 and the Wittlingers, who are represented here by this 5 big-city attorney, David Fritsche -- he's there. We have 6 all reached an agreement on this, and we just -- we would 7 just like to make this road go away. Mr. Fritsche -- it's 8 important to him, because that road ends somewhere in the 9 middle of his clients' house, and -- and the rest of us 10 would just like to see it go away because it's much wider 11 than we need and we just don't know what to do with all of 12 that. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is true, those 14 roads are -- and it's one of those cases where the roads are 15 dedicated to the public, but the public never accepted them. 16 They're just sitting out there. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Are they county -- 18 they're not County-maintained? 19 MR. JOHNSTON: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They're not county 21 roads, because the County never -- you know, the -- you 22 know, anybody can come along and say, "I dedicate this to 23 the County," but that's not a County-maintained road. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The Commissioners 100 1 Court has to accept it, and that never did happen here. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We don't require -- 3 the law does not require us to have a public hearing on this 4 as long as we have 100 percent agreement? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. A 6 hundred percent are right here. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Without 100 percent 8 agreement -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's only -- we're 10 abandoning the easement? 11 MR. LESLIE: Right. That's right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move that we abandon 13 the -- 14 MR. JOHNSTON: One more thing. I think the 15 Davis' own two lots that are not contiguous with the road? 16 MR. LESLIE: Correct. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: With the highway, with the 18 Farm-to-Market 1273. And I think there's going to be a 19 small easement to their property so they're not completely 20 cut off from the -- 21 MR. LESLIE: We do have an easement agreement 22 worked out, so we will have access to public roads. We've 23 already signed it up. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, there's nobody 25 getting access cut off. 101 1 MR. FRITSCHE: And, if I may, Commissioner 2 Baldwin, that's your first contribution to the Sheriff's 3 elimination of some of the roads that are -- that are not 4 necessary. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: This is a big-city 6 lawyer. This is good. I appreciate your help, counselor. 7 MR. FRITSCHE: Yes, sir. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Stick around. I'll 9 need you in a few minutes. I move that we vacate, abandon, 10 and discontinue dedicated road Number 12 of Turtle Creek 11 Ranches in Kerr County. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 15 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 16 vacate, abandon, and discontinue dedicated road Number 12, 17 Turtle Creek Ranches, as recorded in Volume 158, Page 358 of 18 the Kerr County Deed Records, which dedicated road was never 19 accepted by Kerr County nor maintained by Kerr County. Any 20 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 102 1 MR. LESLIE: Thank you. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. The next item is 3 Item Number 10, review and consideration of the Cluster 4 Grant Pilot Project. Mr. Duncan? 5 MR. DUNCAN: Judge, Commissioners, I thought 6 we'd never get here. You have a packet on a proposed 7 Cluster Grant that Kerr County would be the -- by the way, I 8 have Mr. Jim Lehmann from the Office of Court Administration 9 here with me from Austin to help if I need it, and I 10 probably will. This is a -- this is a Cluster Grant, and 11 what it is, is since Kerr County has had a fairly successful 12 Collections program, the State has looked at us to kind of 13 take a leadership role in helping the smaller counties get a 14 program started and assist them. This grant would include 15 Gillespie County, Bandera County, and Medina County. It 16 will mean hiring a full-time individual to take this 17 position. At first I thought my halftime position would go 18 away, but you can't do that on a State grant; you've got to 19 -- you can't get rid of a position to put a position in, so 20 it would mean maintaining my halftime position. 21 The cost to the County would be $2,637.05. 22 Kerr County would also get the benefit of this individual. 23 It would -- in other words, we'd have the 2.4 people we have 24 now -- I mean 1.4 people we have, plus we'd have a partial 25 use of this person who's doing the collections. The other 103 1 counties have all, as of this morning -- Gillespie County 2 was the last county to have a Commissioners Court meeting -- 3 has passed the resolution. Medina passed it last Tuesday, 4 and Bandera passed it on Thursday. So, all the counties 5 have agreed by resolution to participate. Kerr County, 6 being the grant holder, is the last key to this. And, in 7 order to do this, I need to have it -- need it get it 8 presented to you, get it approved today, and get it faxed to 9 Austin by midnight tonight. Short -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How are you going to 11 do that? It says you got to have this in there. 12 MR. DUNCAN: That's why I've got Jim Lehmann 13 here. He's got a fast horse outside. No, we're going to 14 fax it to Austin. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Russ, you said a 16 full-time position? 17 MR. DUNCAN: Yes, sir. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The total salary is 19 $1,647? 20 MR. DUNCAN: No. No, the total salary is 21 back in the package. When it talks about the salary 22 position, the total salary for this position is going to be 23 $28,000 a year, and the grant pays all the benes, FICA, 24 retirement, so forth and so on. And, actually, it's part of 25 the grant participant -- what happens is the participants in 104 1 the grant pay 25 percent, the state project pays 75 percent. 2 There's also money in the grant for travel expenses. As the 3 Judge and Rusty know, I've been traveling around on my own 4 expenses. There's also office furniture, there's a laptop 5 computer and a printer and some software. At the end of the 6 grant period, all that stays with the County. That is 7 retained by the County, and so that's the positive part of 8 it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Where do you suggest 10 the $2,637.05 comes from? 11 MR. DUNCAN: That's what I'm here to ask. I 12 -- I haven't got it in my budget. This is going to be a 13 September thing, so I won't be able to -- to put it in my 14 budget line, 'cause October is budget time, and that's the 15 proposal that I'm here to resolve. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's because the 17 State budget starts September 1st? 18 MR. DUNCAN: Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that -- I got 20 another question. It goes a little bit along with this. Is 21 this a one-year grant? 22 MR. DUNCAN: This is a one-year grant. At 23 the end of the year, the counties can choose if it's 24 beneficial and, indeed, is -- produces what we deem that it 25 will produce, that the County -- Kerr County can keep it 105 1 going with the agreement of the other counties, or it can 2 die. Sunset. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: We get to keep the laptop? 4 MR. DUNCAN: Yes, sir, you keep the laptop. 5 Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Residual assets. 7 MR. DUNCAN: Yes, sir. And, I'm afraid 8 you're stuck with me, too. So -- 9 MR. LEHMANN: Let me say just one thing, 10 Commissioners. Most, if not all, of the $2,700 is probably 11 going to be in-kind contribution through his work and his 12 supervising that effort. So, we've budgeted and allowed for 13 it and allowed for that part of it, but the way it works out 14 is most of it is probably an income contribution. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, the amount was 16 how much? $2,800? 17 MR. DUNCAN: $2,637.05. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, that would be -- 19 we'd have to start coming up with that in-kind or in cash on 20 September 1st? 21 MR. DUNCAN: Yes, sir. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or calculating the 23 in-kind -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's what I'm 25 saying. Start calculating the in-kind money for office and 106 1 whatever else we might -- coming up with the cash in 2 September, that would be our critical thing. If we did have 3 to come up with some cash, we'd need to budget for that 4 starting October 1st. If we could offer some in-kind during 5 the month of September that goes towards the $2,800, maybe 6 we can work out something in the budget. We just need to 7 make sure that everybody understands that this is a one-year 8 grant and that it could sunset. 9 MR. DUNCAN: And we've made that explicitly 10 clear as we've made presentations to County Judges and 11 Commissioners as we've traveled through the participating 12 counties, so that everyone understood. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just find it unique 15 that it's a -- this thing is set up inside the -- basically, 16 the 216th District, except for our good friends over in 17 Medina County. I don't know how they -- how y'all got them 18 in this picture, but I'm glad you did. I have visited with, 19 I guess, all those Commissioners Courts about this program, 20 and they -- I thought we would have trouble with 21 Fredericksburg and Bandera going on board, but they jumped 22 all over it once they saw what was really going on. They're 23 excited about it. 24 MR. DUNCAN: The benefit -- and I want to 25 brag about Kerr County, if I may take a moment. Kerr County 107 1 has kind of been a flagship. We have shown a lot of 2 counties in the state what can be done, 'cause we hear that 3 smaller counties cannot participate in this kind of a 4 program and do it profitably, and we have shown that that 5 can be done. And, we put programs that -- workshops all 6 over the state doing that, and this is just another -- to 7 me, another area where Kerr County is taking a leadership 8 role with other counties and showing what can be done. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is that a motion, 10 Commissioner Baldwin? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 14 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court adopt 15 the resolution approving the application for the Cluster 16 Grant Pilot Project and authorize County Judge to sign same. 17 Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 18 right hand. 19 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, we better move 24 along here. Our kids are out on the street this time of the 25 night. Going to end up jailed, as sure as -- 108 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 11, 2 consider and discuss implementation date of the new/current 3 O.S.S.F. order and related issues. This is a request for 4 guidance from our U.G.R.A. Administrator of the Designated 5 Representative. I think we've received a reply from 6 Mr. Motley today to my request for guidance. Travis, are 7 you here to speak on that? Do you want to -- 8 MR. LUCAS: I can. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- help us out here? 10 MR. LUCAS: I can. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 12 MR. LUCAS: The enabling legislation for 13 O.S.S.F. comes out of Health and Safety Code 366, and you 14 could refer to the memo, 366.031, Subsection B, the 15 italicized portion. The Commission, in writing, may approve 16 the local governmental entity's order or resolution and the 17 designation takes effect only when the order or resolution 18 is approved. Which, if you base it upon the facts that we 19 have, that was January the 19th that T.N.R.C.C. adopted our 20 resolution, so that would be the effective date. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The date that 22 T.N.R.C.C. said yes, it's a deal. 23 MR. LUCAS: That's right. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. I mean, 25 what -- I never have understood anything different from 109 1 that. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would mention, in 3 passing, when the question first came up, I called up 4 T.N.R.C.C., read that section of the statute to them, and I 5 said, "Is there anything tricky here?" And they said, "No. 6 It's the date that we put the date stamp on there that says 7 January the 19th." So, I passed that information back to 8 our friends at U.G.R.A., and I don't know why there was 9 still a question, frankly. It was -- it's black-letter law, 10 and I got verbal confirmation of that. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The confusion, I think, 12 happened at U.G.R.A. They -- I don't see why there's any 13 confusion, but they weren't advised until the 30th of 14 January. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, there was a time 17 period when they were acting under the old order and the new 18 order was actually the new law. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There were about 20 three -- it turns out there were about three systems that 21 were in question because of that time, and they -- and 22 U.G.R.A. folks really weren't trying to get it -- the 23 enactment or the proper effective date pushed back to, like, 24 the 1st of April. I asked T.N.R.C.C. if that was possible, 25 and they said no, unless you redo your order. So -- but, 110 1 anyway, January the 19th is the right answer. And, I 2 mean -- 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is it clear, then, that the 4 effective date and the implementation date was January 19th 5 of Year 2001? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Travis. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you, Travis. 9 MR. LUCAS: You bet. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 12, consider and 11 discuss acceptance of the remaining funds and other assets 12 of the disincorporated City of Center Point. Commissioner 13 Williams? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: At long last, Judge, 15 we have received a check representing the balance of the 16 funds that were in the bank in the order of the City of 17 Center Point upon its disincorporation. There were some -- 18 it -- there was some threatened litigation and other 19 expenses that had to be taken care of. I don't know what 20 the total was of all of that, but the residue of that bank 21 account is $9,973.99, and it will be up to us now to move to 22 accept that. I will do so, and I want the Court to 23 understand that at some point in the near future, when we 24 have formulated a solid plan for continued improvement in 25 Center Point Park, it would be my intention to ask the Court 111 1 for a budget amendment so that these funds can be spent on 2 behalf of the people in the eastern part of the county from 3 whence they were taken. Having said that, then I would move 4 that we accept the $9,973.99 and any other remaining assets 5 of the disincorporated City of Center Point. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 8 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the 9 Commissioners Court officially accept the remaining funds 10 from the disincorporated City of Center Point in the amount 11 of $9,973.99, and other assets of such disincorporated City 12 of Center Point. Any further questions or comments? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge -- you were just 14 alerting us tonight that you're going to come later and ask 15 for some further monies? You're not saying that -- I mean, 16 I know it's not part of your motion, but you're not saying 17 that you expect to have this money handed back -- 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I am saying that, but 19 that's not part of the motion. I am saying it, loudly and 20 clearly. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 22 comments? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is our -- where 24 is our relationship going to be when I say no? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I guess you'll 112 1 extend your hand in good faith. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll vote for your 3 motion, then. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All in favor, raise your 5 right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 10 Item Number 13, consider and discuss resolution of support 11 for the Kerr County Resource Conservation and Development 12 efforts to publish a book about conservation and related 13 topics for distribution and use by present and future 14 citizens. Ms. Sue Dyke has waited patiently to address us 15 on this. 16 MS. DYKE: Well, you've had a long agenda 17 tonight, haven't you? Lots to talk about, right. I -- to 18 just help you out here, in case you don't have a copy of 19 it -- maybe you already do. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Some of us are getting 21 a little stir-crazy, too. 22 MS. DYKE: It gets that way the later you go. 23 Okay. I'm Sue Dyke from Kerr County R.C.& D., and our 24 organization has undertaken a project which we have adopted 25 for the good of the community and good of Kerr County in 113 1 particular, and this project is the publication of a book on 2 conservation. And, we are under -- not presently under 3 contract, but plan to be with Susan Sander to write this 4 book. And, it is my request this evening that the 5 Commissioners Court adopt a resolution in support of our 6 project, and I'll read it here. 7 "Whereas, there is a need to protect the 8 natural resources and land in the Texas Hill Country, 9 particularly the area of the Hill Country in Kerr County, 10 for present citizens and for posterity, 11 "Whereas, there is a need to convey important 12 information about conservation and safe living practices in 13 the Texas Hill Country to present citizens and citizens who 14 will eventually live in this area, 15 "Whereas, there is a need to educate the 16 general public about helpful conservation practices, 17 "Whereas, Kerr County Resource Conservation 18 and Development is sponsoring a book about conservation and 19 other topics pertinent to our area and the Edwards Plateau, 20 to be written by a local conservationist and proven writer 21 who lives in Kerr County, namely Susan Sander, 22 "It is hereby resolved that Kerr County offer 23 support and encouragement to Kerr County Resource 24 Conservation and Development in its efforts to publish this 25 book." 114 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments 2 regarding the proposed resolution? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would offer the 4 resolution, Judge, as written. We've had a lot of 5 discussions at the R.C.& D. regarding this and the contents 6 of the book, who would write the book, how the book is going 7 to be distributed, and the ultimate value of the book to 8 those who would read it, and I'm satisfied that R.C.& D. 9 will not proceed until they have the funds either raised 10 or -- 11 MS. DYKE: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In some fashion 13 raised to cover the costs. But, I do think it's important 14 that Kerr County support this particular activity. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is that a motion? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a motion. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 20 adopt the resolution of support for the Kerr County Resource 21 Conservation and Development's efforts to publish a book 22 about conservation and related topics. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And authorize County 24 Judge to sign same. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: And authorize County Judge to 115 1 sign same. 2 MS. DYKE: Thank you. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 4 If not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 9 MS. DYKE: Can we get a signed copy of that? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, we will get you a signed 11 copy. 12 MS. DYKE: Okay, thank you. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 14, 14 which is consider and discuss grant writing services for 15 Kerr County from Kerr County R.C.& D. and payment for same 16 from Nondepartmental Contingency funds. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Subsequent to our 18 discussions on Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center and the 19 funding mechanism, and the important components of any 20 funding mechanism that we have, I brought the issue of the 21 expansion and renovation of the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 22 Center to R.C.& D. board. They had a lot of discussions 23 about it. They liked the plan very much, and were very much 24 disposed to assist Kerr County in finding grants that might 25 fit into our funding mechanism. So, what this really does 116 1 is commits us to doing that through R.C.& D.'s offices. Sue 2 Dyke has already begun the process. And, there is a cost 3 attached to this, and I think it's important that, if we 4 really believe in chasing after grants for a particular 5 purpose, that we should proceed with this. So, I offer this 6 as a bill to be paid out of Nondepartmental Contingency 7 funds. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, I concur with 9 the -- I mean, the -- the only way we're going to find out 10 if we can raise money is to have -- go out and search for 11 the grants, and the only way we can do that is basically to 12 hire someone to do it. Be a lot cheaper to hire someone on 13 a contract basis like we're doing here than it is to hire a 14 purchasing agent to do it. Y'all did that to me last time, 15 last time we started talking about it. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That went in my good 17 ear and out my bad. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I think it's -- I 19 support the amount. The only -- Bill and I talked about it, 20 and you -- I think we could -- I'm ready to proceed. My 21 only question is making sure that the Court is far enough 22 along on a plan, where we start the preliminary work for -- 23 for it. And, you know, some of the -- really need to talk 24 to the rest of the Court to make sure that they are 25 comfortable that we're far enough along in the process to 117 1 go out for the grants. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a question in 3 that regard. This grant would be -- would be requesting a 4 grant of who and for what purpose? I don't see that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's -- I'll defer 6 to Sue to give us some sense of that. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Some sense of who the 8 grant request might go to and what would be the stated 9 purpose of the funds. 10 MS. DYKE: What would be the stated -- I'm 11 sorry, I didn't hear you. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In the grant, what are 13 -- in the grant request, what would we be asking to do with 14 the money? In other words, "We would like to have X number 15 of dollars from your pot of money, Mr. Grantor, and here's 16 what we're going to do with it if you give it to us." 17 MS. DYKE: You're talking about strategy 18 here, about how would the total project be approached. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How -- this is the 20 first step, as I see it, sort of what -- 21 MS. DYKE: Yeah, right. You've got to have 22 the proposal, you know, before you can actually go out and 23 do anything. But, at the -- in the proposal, there has to 24 be somewhat of a plan or a strategy as to how you're going 25 to approach the total funding picture, because anybody who 118 1 is going to -- that would consider the proposal will know -- 2 would want to know that in advance, and so part of the 3 working up of this proposal -- and that's where the work 4 comes in, actually, is to sit down and think out what that's 5 going -- how that's going to be. So -- but this -- but, 6 primarily, you -- there is a basic tenet to the whole 7 process of grant writing, and that is that you can't get any 8 larger funds, whether they be tax monies or larger grant 9 funds, until you've got some initial support from the local 10 community, and that's primarily what this proposal will 11 allow you to do, is to go -- is to have something in hand to 12 approach local -- local foundations to provide a base for 13 going to other funding sources. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, this is the first 15 step -- 16 MS. DYKE: The first step. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- in the process. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Commissioner Baldwin has 20 a perplexed look on his face. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we send -- we 22 pay an annual fee to R.C.& D. to do what? 23 MS. DYKE: $50. That's for -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To do what, though? 25 MS. DYKE: Okay. You -- we operate a budget, 119 1 and that -- those expenses go to help us pay our very 2 minimal operating expenses, which are -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so anybody that 4 becomes a member of R.C.& D., they just simply pay for your 5 office space? 6 MS. DYKE: Well, we don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't do any 8 grants for them? 9 MS. DYKE: U.G.R.A. furnishes us with office 10 space, but we have a telephone bill every month, and we have 11 to pay something on long distance calls and telephone, 12 mainly. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand that, 14 Sue, but that's what the membership is for? 15 MS. DYKE: Yeah. It's just to help us to -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't -- you know, 17 if whoever is a member of R.C.& D. comes along and -- and 18 requests you to write them a grant, you won't do it? 19 MS. DYKE: Well, we have a -- in our 20 brochure, we explain how our services work and the fact that 21 you -- you may contract with us whether you're a member or 22 whether you're not a member. But, what -- as a member, you 23 choose to support our organization, which is a service to 24 the community, because we're providing search capability 25 here -- grant search capability to everybody and so forth. 120 1 But, if you want to use our services and have us help you to 2 do your grant search for you, well, then, you must be a 3 member. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. I'm an 5 original board member of R.C.& D. 6 MS. DYKE: Yeah, I remember that. I remember 7 that from the -- from the old minutes. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I've just always 9 thought for -- I mean, I've never thought about it, to be 10 quite frank with you. 11 MS. DYKE: Right. Right. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Other than if I'm a 13 member of R.C.& D., you're going to just write grants -- 14 help me write grants. 15 MS. DYKE: Yeah. Well, that's -- you can't 16 -- somebody's got to pay for that. You know, somebody has 17 to -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: R.C.& D. does some grants 19 on their own. Those are paid for internally, like some of 20 the dry hydrants. Those were funded internally out of 21 R.C.& D. But, any grants for specific organizations, that 22 organization pays for it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Another illustration 24 might be if the Sheriff's Department were to go to R.C.& D. 25 and say, "Help me develop a grant proposal to fund the new 121 1 communications system," we'd get another bill just like this 2 one. 3 MS. DYKE: Exactly. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. You're 5 proposing to take the 600 bucks from somewhere; I saw it. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Nondepartmental. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nondepartmental 8 Contingency. And, I assume you've looked there to see if 9 there's $600, even after tonight? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Even after tonight, 11 Mr. Auditor, $600 left? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: There probably is, but I 13 wouldn't guarantee it being in there another month. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Pretty sure it won't 15 be there another month. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sue, I have a question. 17 At what point does the Court have to have a final plan for 18 the renovations out there that we're -- I mean, to go out 19 with? 'Cause we're not at the point yet that we have a -- 20 we're still looking and talking about it. 21 MS. DYKE: I think you're still at the 22 initial stage in this, so you don't have a timeline yet. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A.S.A.P. 24 MS. DYKE: Yeah, A.S.A.P. Right. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yesterday. 122 1 MS. DYKE: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not acting 3 prematurely? This needs to be done as the first step, then? 4 MS. DYKE: You've got to get the ball rolling 5 somehow. This is the first step to do that, right. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move the approval 8 of the grant. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 11 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court engage 12 the Kerr County R.C.& D. to do grant writing services in 13 connection with the renovation of the Hill Country Youth 14 Exhibition Center for an amount not to exceed $600, which is 15 payment to be taken from Nondepartmental Contingency. Any 16 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 17 your right hands. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 22 Item Number 15, consider and discuss approving the job 23 description for the Kerr County Information Systems Support 24 Specialist, approve the method and schedule for filling the 25 position. 123 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Recalling our budget 2 deliberations this year, we decided to -- to hire an 3 Information Systems Specialist, a computer person, 4 approximately halfway through the fiscal year. We're 5 approaching that point, and in your packets is a job 6 description which is one that I modified from the State 7 which has a -- a similar job description. This is in the 8 format now that fits our -- our new job description format. 9 And, I'll be glad to answer any questions about anything 10 that's in there. We need -- and I will move that we approve 11 this job description as a first step. I've got one other 12 thing. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 15 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 16 approve the job description for the Kerr County Information 17 Systems Support Specialist. Any further questions or 18 comments? If not -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question or comment I 20 have is, have you visited with the Treasurer regarding the 21 classification, all that stuff in the -- does it fit in with 22 the -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. If you'll recall 24 what we did last session is that we discussed that, that we 25 will -- before we establish an actual pay range, we're going 124 1 to review what response we get to our solicitation, which I 2 will talk about today. This is just to approve the job 3 description. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 6 comments on the motion to approve the job description? If 7 not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 8 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 (No response.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. Next, I would 13 like to propose that we -- and I'll put this in the form of 14 a motion in a minute, but I would propose that -- and I will 15 do the legwork for this -- post this with the Texas 16 Workforce Commission so we can get a good response 17 throughout -- it gets good exposure throughout the state, to 18 find the right kind of person for this job. We will 19 advertise, and I would propose we also, of course, advertise 20 it locally. We already know of at least two people in the 21 area who have indicated a strong desire for the job. This 22 can be a -- this very likely could be the most key position 23 decision we'll ever make regarding getting the courthouse 24 and Kerr County into the 21st century and computer world, so 25 we want to make sure we get the best available that we can 125 1 afford. So, what I would propose to do is, when we get the 2 responses -- and I'll play with what the effective date of 3 this might be, because I think we want to leave it on the 4 Texas Workforce Commission bulletin board; they post all 5 that for us and take care of the responses, get them to us. 6 But, I think we would want to allow at least three weeks, 7 preferably a month. When we get those in, we will review 8 them, look at the level that we think it's going to require 9 to get the kind of persons that are out there that we want, 10 and then at that point, we'll set the pay grade. I would 11 like to form a selection committee, certainly including 12 Tommy Tomlinson, perhaps Barbara, maybe yourself, Judge, to 13 go through those, pick the maybe two or three that we really 14 think we can go for and get after, maybe talk to them on the 15 phone first, but then maybe interview them, make a 16 selection, and get them on board sometime hopefully in the 17 month of April. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions of Commissioner 19 Griffin? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I -- I'll put that 21 in the form of a motion, because there's a lot in there 22 about Texas Workforce Commission, advertising locally. 23 We'll have to spend a little money to advertise locally, but 24 Texas Workforce Commission doesn't cost us anything. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll second. 126 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 2 Griffin, second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 3 advertise through Texas Workforce Commission, as well as 4 locally, for the Kerr County Computer Information Specialist 5 position, and establish a selection committee to be 6 comprised of Commissioner Griffin and County Auditor Tommy 7 Tomlinson, County Treasurer Barbara Nemec, and County Judge 8 to review applications and make recommendations to the 9 County through the Commissioners Court, with the goal of 10 having a person hired and in place in the month of April. 11 Any other questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 12 raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 17 Item Number 16. It's my item regarding the concept I have 18 on sunset -- a workshop for sunsetting County-supported 19 programs. Given the hour and the fact that there is no time 20 pressure, at this time I'm going to pull this and bring it 21 back to the Court at the next meeting, which will also give 22 us more time to digest the notion of -- of actually 23 reviewing what we spend our money on. So, with that, let's 24 go to the last and final item, Item Number 17, consider and 25 discuss a request to use Hill Country Youth Exhibition 127 1 Center as a primary or secondary evacuation site in case the 2 need arises for the Kerrville Independent School District. 3 This request comes via Dr. Mark Jackson, Superintendent of 4 the Kerrville Independent School District. And, apparently 5 they are reviewing their emergency procedures and have asked 6 permission to use the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center 7 as a potential evacuation site, that being a location where 8 they can have good control, and also sufficient space to 9 encompass a large number of people. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 13 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court authorize 14 use of the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center by the 15 Kerrville Independent School District as a primary or 16 secondary evacuation site in case the need arises. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The Sheriff has a 18 question. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One comment, Your Honor. 20 We will be coming to this Court also to designate the Ag 21 Barn as the evacuation site in case we had to evacuate the 22 jail. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: During a major deal. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Quick question. Do we 128 1 have -- or should we address anything about liability for 2 use of the facility for that purpose? In other words, if 3 somebody turns an ankle, breaks a leg, is there a question 4 of liability there? 5 MR. MOTLEY: Sure. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I just wonder if 7 there's anything we should do about it. I'll vote in favor 8 of it, of course, but I'm just wondering if there's -- we 9 should look at it to see if there's -- what do you do when 10 you're using public facilities for a very, obviously, good 11 reason, you know, in an emergency, and -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would speculate, without 13 having any certainty, the school district's liability 14 umbrella covers this, since the -- you know, they take kids 15 to all kind of things. They used the Municipal Auditorium 16 last year for their commencement. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Things like that. So, we can 19 certainly make that inquiry and get a response. Any further 20 questions or comments? 21 MR. MOTLEY: I brought your order back. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I saw that. Thank you. 23 MR. MOTLEY: With multiple copies. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: If not, all in favor, raise 25 your right hand. 129 1 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 3 (No response.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. If there's 5 nothing further to come before us, we stand adjourned. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 7 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 9:17 p.m.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 10 11 12 STATE OF TEXAS | 13 COUNTY OF KERR | 14 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 15 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 16 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 17 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 18 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of March, 2001. 19 20 21 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 22 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter 24 25