1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Monday, March 26, 2001 11 9:00 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X March 26, 2001 PAGE 2 --- Commissioners' Comments 3 3 1.1 Pay Bills 6 1.2 Budget Amendments 7 4 1.3 Late Bills 13 1.4 Approve and Accept Monthly Reports 15 5 6 2.1 Semi-annual Chamber of Commerce/KEDF update 15 2.2 Request by Second Ark Foundation to establish 7 wildlife resource center in Flat Rock Park 27 2.3 Proclamation declaring April as 8 "Clean Up Our Act" month 37 2.4 Policy/procedures at Animal Control Facility 38 9 2.5 Abandoning maintenance of Verde Mesa Drive E. in Vista Ridge Estates 72 10 2.6 Concept plan for mobile home park, Lot 12, J.L. Nichols Subdivision 77 11 2.7 Preliminary revision of plat, Tract 53A, Kerrville Country Estates, Section II 82 12 2.8 Award annual bids, Road & Bridge materials 85 2.9 Granting extension for receipt of RFP's for new 13 communications system, Sheriff's Department 94 2.10 Allow Sheriff to purchase spare TLETS printer 14 from unexpended Capital Outlay monies 95 2.11 New contract for inmate telephone system 98 15 2.12 Approve contract with McCulloch County to house their inmates at County Jail 104 16 2.13 Renew Sheriff's Office lease agreement with Kerrville Telephone Company 105 17 2.14 Discussion of lower level construction 107 2.15 Review Section 6.04, Kerr County Subdivision 18 Rules, determine if modifications are needed 117 2.16 Approval of reserved parking plan, lower level 131 19 2.17 Resolution in favor of Hill Country State Representative District 134 20 2.18 Resolution reaffirming support for TexDOT Spur 98/High Bridge project 137 21 2.19 Certificate of Substantial Completion for Phase 3A and 3B, authorize County Judge to sign 138 22 --- Adjourned 143 23 --- Reporter's Certificate 144 24 25 3 1 On Monday, March 26, 2001, a special meeting of the Kerr 2 County Commissioners Court was held in the Commissioners' 3 Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the 4 following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. It's 9 o'clock 7 in the morning on March the 26th, and we'll call to order 8 this regular Special Session of the Kerr County 9 Commissioners Court. Commissioner Baldwin, I believe you're 10 up this morning. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I am, sir. If y'all 12 would stand and pray with me, please? 13 (Prayer and pledge of allegiance.) 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. At this time, any 16 citizen wishing to address the Court on an item not listed 17 on the regular agenda may come forward and do so. Is there 18 any citizen who would like to address the Court on an item 19 not listed on the regular agenda? Once again, is there any 20 citizen who would like to address the Court on an item not 21 listed on the regular agenda? Seeing none, we'll move to 22 the Commissioners comments. Let's begin with Commissioner 23 Baldwin. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. I have one 25 item here, Judge, that -- and I didn't receive it until 4 1 Friday, so it couldn't be an agenda item, but I just want to 2 bring it to the attention of the community. I've -- 3 Commissioner -- not commissioner, Representative Hilderbran 4 has sent me a letter that he's received from the Texas 5 Forestry Service stating that in the fires of last year, 6 that -- they say that they have managed to get substantial 7 federal funding directed to Texas for the replacement of 8 fences damaged and destroyed by wildfire. It's called the 9 Fence Replacement Program, with 100 percent reimbursement. 10 So, that's basically the -- the letter, and it gives the 11 guidelines and outlines and a form to fill out if anyone's 12 interested. I'm going to leave it with Mrs. Sovil in the 13 Commissioners Court's office, if anyone in the community 14 would like to -- and I'm hoping the press would pick up and 15 say something about this. Like to -- if you had some fences 16 damaged in the fires last year, that there is some funding 17 available for you. That's all. I could talk about Tivy 18 High School track and my son for two or three hours, but we 19 don't have time. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Williams? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll give you my 22 time, if you like. I have nothing, Judge. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a couple. Several 24 weeks ago, when we were discussing redistricting, somehow I 25 ended up with the task of visiting with Tivy High School. I 5 1 think I made the comment that Tivy High School is in my 2 precinct; therefore, I got the job of finding some students 3 that would like to participate in our Redistricting 4 Committee. Principal Schwartz met with his government 5 classes -- or teachers met with them, and have come up with 6 three names. I'm going to submit these names to be added to 7 our Redistricting Committee: Christopher Schneider, Marissa 8 Rangel, and Sarah Reed. The only other comment that I have 9 is that Little League season starts up Saturday, and main 10 reason I'm bringing it up is that means congestion on 11 Highway 27. It becomes a nightmare for the next, probably, 12 three months, so everyone just please be careful. There's 13 lots of traffic every afternoon from now through June, and 14 we've been very fortunate in prior years, last year 15 especially with construction on Highway 27. We didn't have 16 any bad incidents, but it's something to always be aware of, 17 'cause there will be lots of kids and lots of traffic in 18 that area for the coming months. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Commissioner 20 Griffin? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No comments. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. I would note that 23 the curfew -- the county-wide juvenile curfew goes into 24 effect this coming Sunday, April 1st, and the Sheriff's 25 Department has been working diligently to get the word out 6 1 to the schools and will begin to enforce that ordinance on 2 Sunday, April the 1st. With that reminder, I also want to 3 give my thanks to the Sheriff's Department and other law 4 enforcement for the very capable handling of the incident 5 week before last involving the individual who harmed several 6 of our citizens and led them on a wild chase for some 36, 48 7 hours. Luckily, we don't have that happen very often in our 8 community, but we're even more lucky that we have 9 well-trained and well-led law enforcement officials who take 10 their job seriously and interpose themselves between us -- 11 between the bad guys and the rest of the community. I think 12 we all owe a great deal of gratitude to all of the law 13 enforcement agencies who were involved, as well as those 14 citizens who stepped forward and assisted law enforcement 15 very capably so that we had as successful an outcome to that 16 incident as possible, and our thanks to all of you for your 17 good work and service to the community. Now, let's pay some 18 bills, Mr. Auditor. Anyone have any questions or comments 19 regarding the bills as presented? 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I move we pay the bills. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 23 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court authorize 24 payment of the bills as recommended and presented by the 25 Auditor. Any questions or comments? If not, all in favor, 7 1 raise your right hand. 2 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 4 (No response.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Budget 6 amendments. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Number 1 is a request 8 from the County Clerk to transfer $128.16 from Computer 9 Software to Capital Outlay. This is -- this amount is an 10 over -- over -- well, actually, underestimate of her budget 11 for -- for Capital Outlay in her two offices, both in the 12 County Clerk's office and -- and voting. So, this -- this 13 amendment is to -- to correct that line item. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Third. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 18 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 19 approve Budget Amendment Number 1 for the County Clerk. Any 20 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 21 your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 2 is 8 1 for the Agricultural Extension Service. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a request by Eddie 3 Holland to transfer $197.02 from Stock Show Travel to 4 Reimbursed Travel. I have a late bill from Laurinda Boyd 5 for $474.25, and it's for her to be reimbursed travel 6 expenses to stock show. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, I don't understand 8 the transfer. I mean, the receipt shows that it was for the 9 annual stock show. Why doesn't it come under Stock Show? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's not her travel. 11 That's for the agent's travel. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: There's a separate line item 14 just for her travel. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 18 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve 19 Budget Amendment Request Number 2 and authorize issuance of 20 a hand check to Laurinda Boyd in the amount of $474.25 as 21 reimbursement for lodging expense. Any further questions or 22 comments? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a comment. 24 Go back and look. We do this every year, this exact same 25 thing, and something needs -- we need to adjust it upward or 9 1 ask her to quit going or something. I don't know the 2 answer, but we do this every year, come back and adjust the 3 budget. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 5 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 6 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 8 (No response.) 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 3 is 10 for the District Clerk's Office. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: This is a -- this request is 12 from the District Clerk, to transfer $1,000 from Part-Time 13 Salaries to Office Supplies. I think it has something to do 14 with -- with the change -- moving her office, for additional 15 supplies for I think -- I know for two more full-time 16 employees, for one thing. So, that's her request. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 20 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 21 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 3 for the District 22 Clerk. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 23 favor, raise your right hand. 24 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 10 1 (No response.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Number 4, 3 again, for the County Clerk's office. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: We're striking the first part 5 of this about the Capital Outlay. This they brought back to 6 the Court under a separate agenda item, and so we'll pick up 7 on the -- on the bottom part of this request from the County 8 Clerk to transfer $215 from Election Notices to -- to 9 Supplies on that -- in that department. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 13 Williams, second by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 14 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 4 in the amount of 15 $215, to be transferred from Election Notices to Supplies 16 for the County Clerk's office. Any further questions or 17 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 18 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 20 (No response.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Number 5 is Courthouse 22 Security. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: This -- this request is 24 brought about by the -- the change in personnel in -- as the 25 security officer in this department, due to the fact that 11 1 the person that is replacing the person that retired is a 2 higher grade. In the budget process, we budgeted for the -- 3 for the grade of the person that was currently in that 4 position. To -- in order to have funds available for the 5 remainder of the year, we need $2,315.11 in the Deputy 6 Salary, $176.48 in FICA Expense, $527.63 in Group Insurance, 7 and $179.92 in Retirement, and I'm -- my -- my request is to 8 take this from -- from surplus funds in that -- in that 9 funding. And there are surplus funds available. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is a specific 11 Courthouse Security fund? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: For our -- there are excess 14 funds in that? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: In that fund, yes. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 20 approve budget Amendment Request Number 5, and that the 21 funds from this request come from the excess funds in the 22 Courthouse Security line item in the budget. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The change is due to 24 basically length of service? I mean, it's the same -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Has to do with the -- has to 12 1 do with the qualifications or -- or the educational 2 background of the -- of the person who -- who is now in that 3 position. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: As part of the salary 5 adjustment made last year, we gave law enforcement people a 6 step up if they had additional certificates. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this fund comes 8 from fees from the courts and that kind of thing? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's not -- doesn't 11 come out of the taxpayers' -- 12 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: We need to make it clear that 14 this will constitute a budget emergency and we're going to 15 have to break into that reserve fund for this specific 16 purpose. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is everyone clear now where 19 we are? Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 20 favor, raise your right hands. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 25 6 is for the County Treasurer. 13 1 MR. TOMLINSON: This request is from the 2 Treasurer, Barbara Nemec, to transfer $181 from Computer 3 Supplies to Office Supplies. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 7 Baldwin, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 8 approve Budget Amendment Request Number 6 for the County 9 Treasurer's office. Any further questions or comments? If 10 not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Do we have 15 any late bills? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I have one, and it's payable 17 to the County/District Clerk's Association, for registration 18 for an area meeting on March the 30th, and it's for $80. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion to approve the late 20 bill and hand check in the amount of $80? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So moved. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 24 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 25 approve a late bill and a hand check payable to the County 14 1 and District Clerk's Association, Region IV, in the amount 2 of $80. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 3 favor, raise your right hand. 4 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, before we let 9 Tommy go, I've got a question, because -- and -- and 10 Commissioner Baldwin hit on it a moment ago, but this -- 11 this is an item that repeatedly we have reprogrammed money 12 for, et cetera, and there are other areas where I suspect 13 there may be the same kind of thing at budget time. Will 14 the software that we have produce a listing of all the 15 budget amendments by department? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Sure. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because it would be 18 good to have that to see what happened in previous years. 19 It's a little hard to remember every one of these things we 20 approved, but if we see a consistent pattern and a 21 particular line item is short-funded, and something is 22 long-funded that we're offsetting it with, then we ought to 23 make an adjustment during budget process. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Our financial reports all -- 25 also show what the -- what the revised budget is, too. So, 15 1 that's a good indication, also, of what needs to be -- 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. Okay, thanks. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. At this time, I would 4 entertain a motion to approve and accept the monthly reports 5 as presented. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 9 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court approve and 10 accept the monthly reports as presented. Any further 11 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 12 right hands. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Okay. We'll 17 move straight into the consideration agenda. The first item 18 for consideration is the semiannual update from Sherry 19 Cunningham on behalf of the Kerrville Area Chamber of 20 Commerce and the Kerrville Economic Development Foundation. 21 Good morning. 22 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning, Judge. Good 23 morning, Commissioners. It's always good to be here with 24 you. Looks like have you another long agenda today. I've 25 got some handouts I'm going to leave with you so I can keep 16 1 my report as brief as possible, so you can go on and get -- 2 get to the business at hand. For the record, I am Sherry 3 Cunningham. I live at 934 Bluebonnet here in Kerrville. I 4 am the president of the Kerr Economic Development 5 Foundation. And, you know, when we first started doing 6 these reports, I thought it's just something more I need to 7 do, but I really have found that it's very beneficial, and 8 I -- I think this is probably a really good move on our 9 part. We've done this for a number of years now, and 10 hopefully it helps keep you informed on the work of the 11 Economic Development Foundation, and also allows you to ask 12 any questions if you have any. 13 Economic development is really a program that 14 doesn't have a -- a real changing environment. Our goals 15 are -- are more long -- long-term goals, and this past year 16 we've spent a lot of time on physician recruitment, as well 17 as working on the possibility of developing a multi-use 18 business park for our area. You might wonder why we have 19 been working on physician recruitment. This -- health care 20 is a major industry in our community, and -- and our 21 community has had a -- a shortage of primary care 22 physicians, basically internal medicine physicians, which in 23 turn has an effect on not only the hospital, but also the 24 nursing homes, the assisted living and things like that. 25 And, so, since this is such -- retirement is a big industry 17 1 here and health care is a big industry here, this is 2 something that has -- has been brought to our attention and 3 something we feel very necessary that needs to be addressed. 4 We've had a couple of primary care physicians come in. 5 We've also lost another one or two, but we continue to 6 monitor that and continue to -- to work, and hopefully we'll 7 be able to help attract three or four more internal medicine 8 physicians over the next year. The committee has -- has 9 really identified that we need two or three a year for the 10 next two or three years just to keep up with -- with the 11 workload. 12 The other key item that we've been paying 13 attention to primarily over the last year is the development 14 of a multi-use business park. Actually, we started this 15 effort about two years ago. When we have people, whether 16 they're already here in business or whether they're looking 17 at moving to the Kerrville area, when they come to us and 18 they're asking about available buildings or places where 19 they can develop their business, we pretty much are full-up. 20 We have been for a while. We really don't have an inventory 21 of vacant buildings of any size that are in the appropriate 22 areas to be zoned for manufacturing, processing, and things 23 like that. Transportation plays a big role in some of this. 24 Sometimes when we have a company that's wanting to expand 25 and get -- they're dealing in trucks and whatever, and so 18 1 several years ago, the Kerr Economic Development Foundation 2 made a pledge to start working on what would it take to 3 develop a business park here where we can have all the 4 infrastructure in place, utilize the economies of scale, and 5 -- and try to have something that would be appropriate for 6 our existing businesses that want to expand and grow, as 7 well as if there's somebody who wants to come here, and so 8 we did a lot of work on that last year. 9 We were to the point we did a feasibility -- 10 a concept design on one parcel. We -- we had narrowed it 11 down to about -- about three different areas. One of the 12 biggest challenges we had was trying to identify 50 acres of 13 flat land in the Hill Country. So -- you know, it's 14 wonderful to live here, but when you start looking at an 15 area like that, it's a challenge. 16 So, just as we were kind of getting to the 17 point where we thought that we had a site identified in 18 going further, we had a private developer come to us and 19 say, hey, I'd really like to do this through the private 20 sector, and so we opted to put our efforts on hold and to 21 work with him, as he is working to do this through the 22 private sector. And, so far, it has been very beneficial 23 and we've -- we've maintained a good communication with him, 24 and -- and working with the city as well to develop the 25 building standards and to start the process of -- of trying 19 1 to bring this to fruition. So, anyway, that project 2 continues. It is something that's not going to happen 3 overnight. It's something that we're looking at very 4 carefully because as we work on this concept, we want to 5 make sure that it is a park that will complement our area. 6 Complement and make an opportunity for those businesses that 7 are here, as well as -- as be something that we're all proud 8 of. 9 I did bring you a semiannual report to give 10 you some statistics. I'll just leave those with you. I 11 also brought you a copy of the recently, I guess, updated 12 Transportation Improvement Program from TexDOT. You know, 13 we get that report every year from Bill Tucker's office, and 14 he was at a meeting that I was at a few weeks ago and gave 15 us some different dates, so I brought you a copy of that for 16 Kerr County. Over the next three years, about $25 million 17 worth of TexDot projects are going to be happening here, and 18 I think that's phenomenal, and that's a result of all of us 19 working together and going to those meetings and putting 20 those issues and concerns out there in front of TexDOT, 21 those needs that we have in our community. And so I will 22 share that with you so you can kind of see where we are on 23 that. 24 I do want to remind you that this Wednesday 25 at 6:30 is the public hearing for the High Water Bridge 20 1 project, or they call it the Thompson Drive extension. It's 2 known by lots of things, but anyway, it's to kind of -- the 3 continuation of Thompson Drive over across the bridge coming 4 out at Arcadia Loop, and so that will be out at KPUB. I 5 think you have that on your agenda a little later in the 6 day, and I encourage to you continue your positive support 7 of that cause. I think that's going to be something that's 8 really important for our community. 9 A couple of little things on the side. 10 Several months ago, a representative from U.G.R.A. and 11 Headwaters and myself got together and we started -- water 12 resource is such an issue, we got together and formed a 13 little task force to start looking at ways that we could 14 provide some education to not only our existing citizenry, 15 but also to people who are looking at coming into this area, 16 so they would understand what type of community we are as 17 far as water resources and what is available, so there 18 wouldn't be any misunderstandings there. The last meeting 19 we -- we named that the Water Education Taskforce, and the 20 acronym is WET. I thought that was pretty cute, Fred. But, 21 anyway, we continue to do that. We're working on a brochure 22 that will not only give water saving tips and -- and a 23 little audit where people can use that in their business or 24 their home to understand maybe how they're wasting water, 25 and we hope to carry this throughout the community. It's 21 1 just now getting started, but I think it's exciting. 2 In closing, I just want to tell you also 3 about our clean-up time that the Chamber organizes every 4 year. April has been deemed "Clean Up Your Act" month. We 5 have all kind of activities going on throughout Kerr County 6 throughout April, not just by the Chamber, but different 7 entities. And what we're trying to do is communicate those 8 different opportunities, whether that's hazardous waste 9 cleanup or getting rid of old computers or going out and 10 picking up trash. So, we support your efforts in that. I'm 11 going to give you these reports. If you have any questions, 12 you certainly are welcome to ask me today, or if something 13 comes up after you take a look at this, then feel free to 14 give me a call at any time. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a comment, 16 Judge. Sherry, you may or may not be aware that the 17 R.C.& D. folks are planning a publication also that deals 18 with things you should know with respect to living in the 19 Hill Country. 20 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And a representative 22 from U.G.R.A. is on that as well, so there may be some 23 crossover opportunities. 24 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Good. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Or avoiding 22 1 duplicating -- 2 MS. CUNNINGHAM: That's good. We'll get in 3 contact with them. I was not aware of that. I think the -- 4 the important part about this education process, at the last 5 meeting we made a list of other entities to invite to serve 6 on that task force so we wouldn't have duplication, and 7 that's a group that we can include in this also. And, what 8 we want to do is to come up with a -- with a publication 9 with a brochure that can be distributed at all of these 10 different venues, so we're all telling the same story and 11 working together on this in a cohesive manner, and -- 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's their 13 feeling, as well. 14 MS. CUNNINGHAM: You bet. We'll get in touch 15 with them. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sherry, is this the same 17 group that Janet Robinson's -- 18 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Uh-huh. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just wanted to make sure 20 there wasn't another -- 21 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- another group. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is our invitation to be in 24 that group in the mail? 25 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir, it is. 23 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good. 2 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Actually -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The water -- I got it 4 late last week. 5 MS. CUNNINGHAM: See there? You thought you 6 caught us. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm not sure it -- 8 MS. CUNNINGHAM: I was thinking, I hope 9 Jannett got that out. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it was sent -- I 11 can't remember if it was specifically to the County or to 12 Region J, but it was kind of to both, from our phone 13 conversation. 14 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. And, you know, right 15 now it's -- it's a matter of we were all kind of thinking 16 the same thing, and instead of sitting around and 17 duplicating efforts, we decided to put our heads together 18 and see what we could come up with. And, so far, we have a 19 draft of the brochure and we've outlined different marketing 20 things that can possibly be put in hotels about water saving 21 tips, carrying it on into the school system and starting -- 22 kind of like the recycling issue a few years ago, where you 23 start with the children and work up, and the parents will 24 learn also. So, I think, you know, it's a huge task in 25 front of us, but it's something that everybody is really 24 1 excited about and -- and it's -- when you get that kind of 2 excitement on that -- a group like that or within that 3 group, then you'll see those things that will happen. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sherry, I have a 5 question for you. Three or four years ago, I remember 6 seeing letters between you and Mooney Aircraft going back 7 and forth, and a lot of them, and some of their desires 8 asking for help out of the community and water and sewer and 9 building facilities and all those kind of things. And, I 10 think the -- I think that the -- the community effort -- 11 you, City, us -- all of us together have provided for the 12 water and sewer out there for them. 13 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you have had -- 15 offered your services of helping them find some grants and 16 some things like that. I remember numerous letters back and 17 forth, and I haven't heard anything until just recently I 18 saw a letter come through here, and it was exactly the same 19 letter I saw four years ago, of them asking for some help. 20 Did they ever bite on your offers of seeking grants and 21 things? 22 MS. CUNNINGHAM: At three different times, 23 We had worked with -- and this goes back to former owners. 24 I'll be here eight years this summer, so yes, for several 25 years you've seen this. We were very strongly recommending 25 1 that Texas Capital Fund, because that really is the 2 appropriate -- or probably the best opportunity for a 3 funding venue for us to be able to do that. And, at three 4 different times, we -- the first two times got very close to 5 being ready to submit that information, and for some reason 6 or another it was -- was discontinued on the efforts of 7 Mooney, at their request. And, so, I did talk with Mr. Dopp 8 again a couple of weeks ago and reminded him about that 9 program again. So, you know, until he's ready to -- to -- 10 it does take a commitment on the part of the company to be 11 able to go through that. It's -- it's a huge process, and 12 it has to be -- the Texas Capital Fund has to be accessed by 13 a government entity, whether it's the City or the County, on 14 behalf of an industry. And -- but there is a lot of -- 15 there's a lot of bookkeeping involved in it, like, a lot of 16 recordkeeping, a lot of detail, and it is something that has 17 to be looked at very realistically. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure this Court 19 would be willing to sit down and take a look at that -- 20 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- process, but I 22 think that it needs to -- one of the steps -- early steps is 23 the ownership of Mooney Aircraft needs to take their little 24 steps before it gets to us. 25 MS. CUNNINGHAM: That's right. 26 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I don't know -- I 2 was a little disturbed by some of this ugly stuff. And, I 3 mean, we're willing -- I think we're willing to look at it. 4 I'm just speaking for myself, but I think we're willing to 5 look at it if he'll take those steps that are required of 6 him. 7 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Well, all I can do is to 8 remind him occasionally, so -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, ma'am. Thank you 10 for your work on that. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The number of hours 12 expended by the Mooney task force on this particular effort 13 are -- is large. The amount of time. 14 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes. I actually -- I think 15 one of the wisest things we did was to form the Mooney task 16 force, because we had representatives of the City and County 17 and industry, businesses come together to try to communicate 18 those different things. And, we have looked at other grant 19 programs, but there -- they are very few and far between 20 today. And, I know the State is right now looking at that 21 Texas Capital Fund and looking at their economic development 22 programming to see if, you know, they can make some changes, 23 and that's hot and heavy right now in front of the 24 Legislature, but I don't know what the results will be. So, 25 currently, that's about all there is we can offer. Any 27 1 other questions? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Appreciate your 3 working on that. You have a lot more patience than I do 4 with that. 5 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Yes, sir. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Sherry. 7 Appreciate the effort. 8 MS. CUNNINGHAM: Thanks, appreciate it. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item for discussion is 10 Item Number 2, consider and discuss a request by the Second 11 Ark Foundation, which is a 501(c)(3) foundation associated 12 with the Exotic Wildlife Association, to establish a 13 resource center in Flat Rock Lake Park. Mr. Waggoman, 14 welcome. 15 MR. WAGGOMAN: Judge Henneke, members of the 16 Court, good morning. I'm John Waggoman. I'm president of 17 the Second Ark Foundation, which is a subsidiary of the 18 Exotic Wildlife Association and was created as a nonprofit 19 in 1995. The purpose of our organization is to educate the 20 general public as to the advantages of game ranching and 21 wildlife conservation and what part hunting plays in the 22 conservation of wildlife and its habitat. The Second Ark 23 Foundation began to develop a concept of an educational 24 center, a resource center which would involve the 25 participation of Parks and Wildlife, Animal Health 28 1 Commission and other agencies which are dedicated to 2 education and research. It was our intention to establish a 3 resource center of about 10,000 square feet, which would 4 house our library, meeting rooms, retail center, and the 5 exhibit galleries. 6 Mid last year, Bill Lang -- which I'm sure 7 some of you know is very ill with cancer -- they approached 8 our foundation and wanted to donate his extensive collection 9 of mounts and a considerable amount of money to put this 10 resource center together. The exhibit gallery will be named 11 the Isawahnini William F. Lang Memorial Gallery. Now, 12 isawahnini is a Zulu word that Bill picked up while he was 13 hunting in Africa, which means a place where the animals 14 stay, so he felt like that would be very fitting, and we did 15 too. So, the board of directors of our organization asked 16 me to search for a location for our building. It came to my 17 attention that the County did have space in some of its 18 parks, so I wanted to -- I came in and visited with Judge 19 Henneke about obtaining a location in one of the parks. We 20 want to involve the public, to educate them on all aspects 21 of wildlife, perhaps establish a walk-through archery range, 22 maybe a -- an air gun rifle range, educate the children on 23 gun safety. I am unaware of a firearms safety program, 24 other than the hunter safety program that is conducted in 25 the area, and I don't think there has been one since 29 1 Schreiner Institute closed its R.O.T.C. program. 2 But, we want to involve all of those people, 3 all of the community, in efforts to enjoy the outdoors and 4 the wilderness areas. If we were able to establish a 5 location within the county park, then the common areas would 6 serve both for the resource center, its members, and the 7 general public, and we would not be needing a 10-acre tract 8 as originally thought. So, I am here this morning to 9 investigate the possibility of establishing our resource 10 center within one of the county parks, maybe the Kerr County 11 Fair Park or Flat Rock Lake Park. I will answer whatever 12 questions the Court may have. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you for coming, 14 Mr. Waggoman. It's an interesting proposition. Does anyone 15 have any questions at this time? Any questions or comments? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is the facility -- I'm 18 sorry. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Go ahead. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is the facility, as 21 sketched here, fully funded at this point? 22 MR. WAGGOMAN: The -- I have enough money to 23 build a shell. That's 10,000 -- proposed 10,000-foot 24 building, and I have visited with a professional engineer in 25 the area, and he is of the opinion that, yes, we can build a 30 1 complete shell. Not finish out on the inside; however, 2 there are alternatives to finishing out the entire project. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, I know you showed 4 me -- your initial letter mentioned that he had met with 5 you, and you asked me about it and I said, you know, pretty 6 much -- I think we talked and said put it on the agenda, 7 let's discuss it. The only really county park that would 8 even be suitable possibly is Flat Rock or that facility, 9 that whole complex out there. My personal feeling is that 10 the Ag complex, which is basically frontage on Highway 27, 11 is hands-off until we decide what we're going to do 12 long-term with that facility from a construction standpoint, 13 which frees up Flat Rock Park. The majority of that -- I 14 don't know if you've been out to the park and looked at it, 15 both sides -- 16 MR. WAGGOMAN: Yes, I have. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The majority, if not all 18 of the building sites on the -- I guess the west side of 19 Third Creek is in a floodway, which can't be used. That 20 moves us over to the new tract of land we bought, which has 21 an access situation, let's say; it's not real easy to get in 22 and out of there. Is that -- to me, that's the only site 23 that I can see as even, you know, a possibility. Would that 24 site, which would not have any view or, you know, not be on 25 Highway 27, be an acceptable location from y'all's 31 1 standpoint? 2 MR. WAGGOMAN: I'm not real familiar -- 3 really familiar with the site that you're talking about, 4 other than what is the -- along Riverside Drive and along 5 the lakefront. Now, I did notice there appeared to be an 6 island of -- on the -- beyond that does have an access 7 problem. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not the island. 9 MR. WAGGOMAN: Beg pardon? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not the island. 11 MR. WAGGOMAN: Not an island, all right. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where it is, it's the -- 13 and it would probably be best, maybe, if the Court wants to 14 pursue this, you know, I can meet you or one of us can meet 15 you out there, show you exactly where the other part of the 16 property is. But, if you're familiar with the Swap Shop -- 17 MR. WAGGOMAN: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- there's a driveway 19 that goes -- you go up to the Swap Shop. Just on the west 20 side of it there is a driveway that goes down to a big open 21 area. That's the area now, I guess, called the new portion 22 of the park. 23 MR. WAGGOMAN: My initial request to the 24 Foundation was I need a location with at least 1 acre above 25 the 100-year floodplain for our improvements. The rest 32 1 could be wilderness area for our recreation. So, if that 2 does exist there, we would like to take a look at it. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think there's 4 probably -- I mean, I know a portion of that, though it's 5 not much above the floodplain, but that would be -- I mean, 6 it's -- it's a remote location, is the best way to phrase 7 it, I think. But, I think that I -- to me, that's the only 8 site that I know of the County has that's even potentially 9 available. I think the other question that I'd have before 10 it went too much further is kind of look a little bit back, 11 I guess, more into the organization as to, you know, who the 12 directors are, who -- I mean, kind of more exactly who the 13 individuals are that we're doing business with. I think 14 that whenever the County's going to get in any kind of a 15 relationship like this, we need to be very careful as to who 16 and exactly what the purpose is. 17 MR. WAGGOMAN: Quite understandable. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 19 questions? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Only thing, just 21 following up on what Commissioner Letz said, that new piece 22 or new addition to the Flat Rock Lake Park is probably the 23 only one that satisfies your criteria for being above the 24 100-year floodplain, but it doesn't give you much if any 25 highway exposure. You'd have to take care of that yourself 33 1 some other way, because if you go out there, you'll find out 2 yourself that you're going to have to find that road and go 3 on down there to it. But -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The question I have 5 is, assuming we were to pursue this, is what sort of legal 6 arrangement we would have, whether it would be a 7 dollar-a-year lease on land or whatever. There would have 8 to be some very careful legal and -- and particularly legal 9 liability issues to be considered in all of that, which I 10 think we probably will ask our County Attorney to get 11 involved with at some point. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All that would obviously have 13 to be worked out. I think what we need to decide today is 14 whether this is a concept that the Court wishes to pursue. 15 Do we want to take it further and work with the Foundation 16 to determine who we're dealing with, work on the legal 17 issues, see if we can find a suitable location and concept? 18 And I think -- if we want to do that, I think probably the 19 appropriate way to do that is to appoint -- or have 20 volunteers for a subcommittee to work with the Second Ark 21 Foundation to come back with a recommendation. What's the 22 sense of the Court? Is this something we want to -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very simply -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- pursue? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- I've got a couple 34 1 of questions that I want to ask Mr. Waggoman, but before I 2 do that, I nominate Mr. Letz to handle that. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ask your question. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Mr. Waggoman, 5 on your note here, you're requesting 8 to 10 acres total. 6 One acre of that would be for the resource center, itself. 7 MR. WAGGOMAN: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So -- and then you 9 also state in here the wilderness area, which is the 10 remainder of that 10 acres, could be used by other 11 organizations. 12 MR. WAGGOMAN: My original thought to my 13 Foundation was that would -- the 10 acres would give us 14 sufficient area for outdoor recreation. If, in fact, we 15 were in a park situation, then we would not need 10 acres. 16 All the remaining area could probably be used in common with 17 the general public. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ten acres seems like 19 an awful -- 20 MR. WAGGOMAN: Lot of property? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Awful lot of property 22 to -- and I really do not understand -- I'm not clear what 23 your -- what you had wanted to use that wilderness area for. 24 MR. WAGGOMAN: Well, as I said, for nature 25 study, trails, studies of plants, animals, whatever 35 1 occurred, plus maybe a walk-through archery place just for 2 the recreation area. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. 4 You say here the wilderness area could be used by -- in 5 common by others. What about -- what about the facility 6 itself? I mean, I can't see a bunch of third graders going 7 there and swinging from the elephant tusks and that kind of 8 thing, but is -- do you envision to it where -- I mean, is 9 this -- part of this kind of an outside area to have -- that 10 we could take -- Jon and I have always talked about having a 11 facility there where we could bring down the elementary -- 12 or schools from the Kerr County public school system to do 13 exactly what you're talking about, but I would think that we 14 would have a facility for that. And, I'm -- what I'm seeing 15 you say is that -- that it would be commonly used for that 16 in the outside area, but what about the building? 17 MR. WAGGOMAN: I think there -- there would 18 be -- within our classrooms and library, it would be open to 19 the general public, because without the public participation 20 and the local community participation, we would not survive. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I'm liking it 22 more now. I'll second my own motion to get Letz to do it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't have any 24 problem with it. I think the idea has merit. If the Court 25 decides it wants to pursue it further and Mr. Letz needs 36 1 some help, I'll be happy to do it. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we have two -- we 3 have one volunteer and one designee. Does the designee want 4 to be a volunteer? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll be glad -- I really 6 think the first step is to show Mr. Waggoman the location, 7 because, you know, I'm -- I'm concerned that it may not work 8 for y'all. I mean, it is a -- there is an access issue 9 there, and it's hard -- it's -- you know, if y'all -- if 10 your Foundation was able to improve that access, it would 11 probably -- it would work, but there is a -- I mean, there's 12 a problem right there right now, 'cause it's very difficult 13 to get into that park and it's dangerous, I think, also. We 14 need to work with TexDOT, and we've already talked to Bill 15 Tucker about what needs to be done from the TexDOT 16 standpoint to improve that dangerous intersection where 17 the -- where the entrance to the park is. I'd be glad to 18 meet with you and go over the location, and then if it -- if 19 that works from your standpoint, then we can proceed on the 20 legal ramifications and who the organization exactly is and 21 -- and how to maybe structure this whole thing to accomplish 22 your goals, and maybe some of our goals to have some 23 community space out there. 24 MR. WAGGOMAN: Fine. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe I have a motion 37 1 from Commissioner Baldwin to appoint a committee composed of 2 Commissioner Letz and Commissioner Williams to work with Mr. 3 Waggoman on the concept. Do I have a second? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll second his 5 motion. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Second by Commissioner 7 Griffin. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 8 favor, raise your right hand. 9 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 11 (No response.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. 13 MR. WAGGOMAN: Thank you. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: We appreciate the idea. Next 15 item on the agenda is Item Number 3, consider and discuss a 16 proclamation declaring the month of April 2001 as "Clean Up 17 Our Act" month. The proclamation in your packets was 18 basically provided by Chamber of Commerce. Does anyone have 19 any questions or comments? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 23 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 24 adopt the proclamation declaring the month of April, Year 25 2001, to be "Clean Up Our Act" month for Kerr County. Any 38 1 further questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise 2 your right hands. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 7 4, consider and discuss policy and procedures at the Animal 8 Control Facility. Commissioner Griffin. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This one came to me by 10 telephone. Mr. Larry Harris, I think, is here to address 11 the Court on this. Mr. Harris? 12 MR. HARRIS: Hi. My name is Larry Harris. 13 I've lived in Kerrville for -- Kerrville area for 25 years. 14 I live in west Kerr County. Basically, I really don't want 15 to get into any in-depth problems, other than the fact that 16 I have a petition that has been sent around the town. I've 17 been able to work on it, limited, but the response has been 18 incredible. I've got over 600 people that agree with me, 19 and we probably -- I could probably get 95 percent of the 20 people in Kerr County. I had one person that told me that 21 they didn't want to get involved out of all the people that 22 I've talked to. 23 I've been with numerous groups of people -- 24 and this -- this is in regard to the 48-hour kill at the 25 Animal Control. This is what I -- the issue. I should have 39 1 said that first. But, I've talked to numerous people about 2 it. I have real strong feelings about it. It's very 3 difficult for me to even talk about it. I know Animal 4 Control's got a really difficult job. It's very hard. I 5 couldn't do it. And I'm a hunter, and I still couldn't do 6 it. I feel that there's some issues, some problems at 7 Animal Control. Like, for instance, when I first came here, 8 I didn't know y'all's rules of how to speak to you guys. 9 Well, people come into my office, they don't know my rules 10 either. And I feel that we need -- Animal Control has got 11 some problems. 12 I brought a board along as a sample that I'm 13 going to give to Animal Control, a sign that needs to be 14 placed at Animal Control telling exact procedures for the 15 people that walk in. I feel that some animals have been put 16 to death that shouldn't have because telephone numbers were 17 not gotten, logs were not kept on them. And, I'm sure that 18 you've got personnel running 16 different directions, and I 19 feel that some large sign, even -- even larger than that -- 20 we're giving that to the Animal Control to help them. It 21 should be placed on there to let everybody know that they 22 should give their names, what they lost, their address and 23 several phone numbers. A day phone number, a night phone 24 number, so they can -- and then I think it's mandatory -- 25 should be made mandatory that Animal Control -- all people 40 1 that work at Animal Control should look at the logs. I 2 think there's things slipping through the cracks there, and 3 in most businesses that happens. We're all human. 4 First off, I wanted to give the petitions to 5 the Court. I have over 600 people in Kerr County. These 6 are taxpayers, over 18 years of age. They feel the same way 7 I do. In fact, like I said, I firmly believe that I could 8 probably get 95 percent of this -- of this county to sign 9 this petition. We -- we do not agree with 48-hour kill. 10 We -- we feel -- we're asking for 5-day -- five working 11 days. I know that's going to put a strain on economy. Just 12 like this morning, I've heard the comment many times from 13 this -- from the people here, "Let's raise our taxes. I'll 14 be glad to pay for whatever needs to be done." But, what's 15 going on in Kerr County is wrong. It's real wrong. And 16 this is a direct reflection on us, the people in Kerr 17 County. And, basically, that's all I've got to say. 18 I'm -- I know that financial -- this is going 19 to put a financial burden on a lot of, maybe, the County. 20 Maybe we need to try to figure out how to solve the problem. 21 I'm also on the Board of Directors at the Humane Society, 22 and I can remember times several years ago where we had real 23 difficulty making payroll. It was tough. We were trying to 24 figure how we're going to pay our employees. And, since 25 that time, we've worked hard at it. We're -- and we're way 41 1 in the black now. We're in great shape, better shape than 2 we've ever been. And I'm not going to try to tell you guys 3 how to do your job on this. I mean, there's a lot of 4 different directions we can take on this. But, I -- people 5 of Kerr County do not want the 48-hour kill, and I think 6 we've got some problems and issues of things falling through 7 the cracks at Animal Control. And I'm not going to attack 8 any individual cases. There's been a lot of individual 9 cases that have been brought up. Last few months, I've 10 heard some horror stories, some absolute horror stories to 11 me. I'm just absolutely appalled, and so were the people of 12 Kerr County appalled that this is going on. It's time that 13 we make a change. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Larry, let me say to 15 you that what I appreciate about what you're doing is -- and 16 we don't know of everything. I mean, we don't stay out in 17 all of our departments every day. You know, it's impossible 18 to do that. But you've brought us -- you brought a problem 19 to us, and you're bringing some solutions with that, and I 20 appreciate that very much. But, I want to ask you a 21 question. You said you heard this morning, and you hear it 22 a lot, that -- that we need to raise some taxes on the 23 issue. I haven't heard that yet. What were you referring 24 to? 25 MR. HARRIS: Well, if you need additional 42 1 funds to make the enlargement of -- Kerr County has grown a 2 whole bunch in the 25 years I've been here. It's been 3 amazing, the changes in Kerr County. The traffic is -- it 4 almost reminds me of Houston. I kind of laugh about it, 5 'cause it's -- when I first came here 25 years ago, there 6 wasn't much traffic, much -- much industry and all. I'm 7 really glad to see the town grow. I'm even to -- I'm 53 8 years old. I consider myself one of the -- a younger person 9 in Kerr County, and I'd like to see Kerr County grow. I 10 would like to see everybody in this town prosper. And, I -- 11 of course, I'm in the business of trying to sell homes to 12 people, and there's a lot of problems with that issue here 13 in Kerr County, which I don't -- that's another complete 14 issue. But, if taxes need to be raised, I'm for it. I 15 just -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why would we raise 17 taxes? I want to stay on that just for a second, if you 18 would. 19 MR. HARRIS: Okay. If we had to raise taxes 20 to build a bigger facility, to expand the facility that we 21 have so that we could have a heavier carrying capacity. 22 Alternatives -- there are alternatives that you can -- at 23 one time we were leasing Freeman-Fritz for overflow. That 24 could be done in the interim period. I know that I would 25 sure hate for my animal to be put down. I have a 43 1 16-year-old black lab that cannot wear a collar, and I know 2 that there is irresponsible people in this town, but there 3 is an awful lot of responsible people in Kerr County. A 4 tremendous amount of them, just like me, that feel the same 5 way I do. I know that there are some animals that are not 6 taken care of properly. I know that we need -- may need 7 funds. We may need to work on trying to get grants to 8 expand the facility so we can have a little longer holding 9 period. Whatever has to be done has to be done, and I'm not 10 going to -- I don't really want to get into the issue of 11 telling you what to do, your job, because I'm sure you 12 wouldn't appreciate some -- some guy from the streets coming 13 in here telling the County Commissioners how to do their 14 job. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think we'd 16 ever take it that way at all. I think you're making some 17 great suggestions. My line of questioning was -- until 18 your -- just your last sentence there -- 19 MR. HARRIS: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- is, are you coming 21 in here and telling us that our -- that we need to raise 22 taxes to fix this problem? Is that your -- this 600 people, 23 that's their attitude? 24 MR. HARRIS: If -- if that's the answer. 25 Whatever the answer is. You -- it's up to you guys to 44 1 decide what the answer is. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I would hope 3 that that's not the high priority here. I mean, I hope -- 4 and I agree with you, we need to do something. 5 MR. HARRIS: Right. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I would hope that 7 we would look at different avenues before we just say we 8 need to raise taxes. 9 MR. HARRIS: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because if that was 11 the case -- 12 MR. HARRIS: Like grants and such. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- we're going to have 14 to raise taxes on every person in this room, you know, 15 'cause they have the same issues coming up. So -- 16 MR. HARRIS: Like grants. There's all kinds 17 of ways of solving a problem, and maybe volunteers. 18 Somebody may volunteer to expand the facility out there. 19 The facility, I understand, was designed in such a way that 20 it could be expanded if needed. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 22 MR. HARRIS: If it would be needed. Of 23 course, there's some issues about the -- the rumors have it 24 that we way overpaid for what we got anyhow to start with, 25 and that's pretty well rampant rumor in Kerr County, that 45 1 what was -- what we actually got, we should have gotten a 2 lot more than what we did get for the facility. But, there 3 is room for expansion out there, and I'd like to see some 4 expansion. I would like to see a little more concern about 5 trying to reunite animals, possibly getting a TV -- local TV 6 channels out there once a week showing the animals that are 7 lost, and maybe possibly reuniting the owners. There are a 8 lot of folks in town that are working with the Animal 9 Control and probably don't even realize it. I know, for 10 instance, at H.S.K., we -- Monday mornings we're flooded 11 with lost animals, animals that have gotten lost. We try to 12 find, we try to reunite, we try to help the area. 13 Of course, I'm not representing in this 14 situation H.S.K. I'm representing myself. I've heard a lot 15 of complaints. People have come to me for a long time. 16 This is not something that just happened. For a long time, 17 complaints about what's going on in the county, and people 18 were appalled. And I also found that, talking to a lot of 19 people, the number of folks that just really weren't even 20 aware that we had a policy to that effect. I promote and -- 21 and encourage spay and neuter to try to eliminate the 22 problems, H.S.K. does. We have about $25,000 that we have 23 some people that worked very hard for to try to help the 24 underprivileged folks where it can be done free. We're 25 trying to solve the county's problems also. We know it's a 46 1 problem. 2 And, I hate to hear that we have to put 3 animals down. I know that we can't keep them all. I know 4 that, but I just -- there's been too many things that have 5 happened, way too many. I've heard complaints, just 6 unbelievable complaints about -- stories. There's some 7 folks here that really wanted to speak today that couldn't. 8 And the response -- again, the response I've had by talking 9 to folks, I didn't realize how -- how difficult this was 10 going to be until I got into it. To get 500 or 600 11 signatures is a lot of work. I work a full-time job and I'm 12 trying to fit this in the best I can. I've talked to people 13 a lot. Of course, I -- I feel very strongly about this 14 issue, and so it's easy to talk about, but it's still a lot 15 of work. But, I know that if I carried this out for however 16 long it needs to be, that I can get 95 percent of the people 17 to sign. There's some people just not going to do it. We 18 need to make some changes. 19 And, I also have something I want to give to 20 the County Commissioners. If you get a chance, pass this 21 tape around. It is something that came off of Discovery 22 channel. I'd appreciate it if you'd take 30, 45 minutes out 23 and watch the tape and pass it around. It goes into how 24 pets originated, the whole concept of pets, some of the 25 problems. It was a very good show. I recorded that last 47 1 night, 'cause I think everybody would really enjoy the show. 2 And some -- you only gave me a few minutes to speak, so this 3 is y'all's to pass around. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's -- are those two 5 the same? 6 MR. HARRIS: Same thing. Same thing. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Want me to take it 8 first, Bill? 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, let's fight about 11 it. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You can have it. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, thanks. 14 MR. HARRIS: I was real surprised this 15 morning, I had a lot of folks come up, and I appreciate 16 everybody's -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone else have any 18 questions of -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a comment. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have some, too. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Larry, I understand 22 your passion for this. You and I have spoken about this on 23 several occasions. 24 MR. HARRIS: Sure. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I realize you 48 1 feel very, very strongly about it, and I am loath to bring 2 up this subject that brings you here today, and wouldn't, 3 except that it was misrepresented in the newspaper story. 4 And I reference it because the misrepresentation creates a 5 real, real bad situation for the people at Animal Control 6 who do this work. It's not clean work. It's not fun work. 7 It's not something that they take home at night to share 8 with their family about the joys of their job. But it is a 9 job, as opposed to the organization you represent. And I 10 know you're here today as a citizen. This is Animal 11 Control, as opposed to Animal Shelter. 12 The fact of the matter in this one case, even 13 though you didn't reference it this morning, is that the 14 dogs were not killed short of 48 hours; they were killed 60 15 hours after the fact. And the other fact of the matter is 16 that the owner, while distraught, who came to see about the 17 animals, didn't leave her name and address and telephone 18 number, which makes it very difficult for the Animal Control 19 people to get ahold of an owner. Now, I grant you that 20 perhaps we, the county Animal Control people, should say to 21 a distraught owner under circumstances like that, "Ma'am" or 22 "Sir, may we have your telephone number so that we can get 23 back to you?" if that individual is so distraught so as to 24 have forgotten about it. And perhaps we didn't do that. 25 But, I think it's incumbent on the individual, if they come 49 1 out there and find, one, their dogs weren't there, as was 2 the case in this particular instance because the inquiry 3 came before the dogs were registered in, and the second 4 inquiry didn't come until after the dogs were destroyed. 5 And so, you know, I hate to see the Animal Control people, 6 who work very hard, get a real black eye over a situation 7 that they had no major responsibility for because they 8 erred. They didn't err, and I think it's important that the 9 public know that. And, I -- as I said to you when we talked 10 about this on those two or three occasions, yeah, we could 11 -- we could hold animals 48, 72, 96 -- 12 MR. HARRIS: 120. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- Some-odd hours. 14 All it takes is money to enlarge the facility, expand the 15 staff, and everything that goes with that. Now, I don't 16 know whether these 600 people who signed these petitions are 17 not -- are willing to come here, one, at all, and tell us at 18 budget time that they want that -- that facility expanded 19 exponentially, but that's what you're here asking us to do. 20 And that is -- that is a tax item, as Mr. Baldwin 21 referenced. It is a major tax item, 'cause you're talking 22 about taking a facility that has the capability of handling 23 only 14 or 16 dogs in a run, doubling it or tripling it to 24 satisfy a need, whether that need is real or perceived. And 25 I'm not sure that that's the way the taxpayers want us to 50 1 go. So, at budget time, if that's what has to be done, then 2 I guess people are going to tell us about it. 3 MR. HARRIS: Okay. In response to what you 4 said, I didn't want to get into the issues. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't, either. I 6 just wanted to clear the record for the newspaper. 7 MR. HARRIS: I didn't want to talk about 8 individual cases. I brought the board over here for a 9 reason. There needs to be a sign. It's like I said when I 10 came over here to talk to this young lady, I did not know 11 your rules of how you do things around here. This is just 12 like -- people walk in my office; they don't know our rules. 13 And, if -- without a handout or something to tell the people 14 what to do -- in this case, that's what happened. You had 15 an 18-year-old young lady that came in, didn't know the 16 rules. That's what I'm suggesting, is place the rules so 17 they cannot help but see it when they walk into the -- to 18 the building to take care of the problem. There has been 19 other issues of animals that have been put down way before 20 48 hours. There's been a lot of complaints about that. 21 And -- and I don't even want to get into the -- to 48 hours 22 or whatever. The bottom line is, the folks do not agree 23 with the 48-hour rule, and that's what they're telling me. 24 And, we've got to do whatever we've got to do in Kerr 25 County. 51 1 And I, myself, don't have a problem with 2 raising my taxes, and I think there's a lot of folks the 3 same way; whatever it takes to make the facility handle -- 4 first off, it is a direct reflection of the community, what 5 we do and how we handle our animals, as well as how we 6 handle children. And there's a lot of people that represent 7 children out there, a lot of teachers and principals and law 8 officers and folks, and there's not too much people like me 9 that stand up and say, well, you know, we've got a problem 10 here with animals too. And I'm saying we need to do 11 whatever it takes. 12 I don't want to get into an individual 13 contest about this. I -- when I decided -- when I came up 14 to here to speak -- you and I have discussed this about this 15 one case. There was a -- the ball was dropped in both 16 party's lap. Both of them. The person that went in made a 17 mistake, and so did the people that -- at the Animal 18 Control. They didn't get -- they didn't ask. If you don't 19 ask -- somebody could have asked. They could have solved 20 the problem; wouldn't have had it if the girl had gotten the 21 phone number. But, like I say, I really don't want to get 22 into the issue. Yes, I've talked to these people. I've 23 talked to many people in the last few weeks. Incredible. 24 And, they say they don't want it. Whatever has to be done, 25 we need to do it. I'm not telling you what to do. It's up 52 1 to y'all to tell me what you can do about it. Or -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We have some other 3 questions. 4 MR. HARRIS: Sure. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are you finished, 6 Commissioner? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a couple of 8 questions. First of all, I'm not sure if you're aware of 9 this or not. I've kind of been the Commissioner that's 10 worked probably the closest with the Animal Control Facility 11 since I've been a Commissioner, which is going on over four 12 years now, and we're currently under -- working through the 13 County Attorney and with the department head out there to go 14 over our procedures and make sure that they are accurate. 15 And, you know, when things need to be changed, I'll 16 recommend bringing them back to the Court for a change. 17 That being said, you know, I personally think 18 our Animal Control department does very good. The purpose 19 of that department is animal control. Dogs that are not 20 tagged and collared are a major problem in this county, and 21 that is -- you know, I don't know the exact number, but the 22 vast majority of dogs that get euthanized or cats or other 23 animals do not have collars, and those dogs are in violation 24 and their owners are in violation of county laws. So, I 25 think that, you know, to come out and kind of imply all 53 1 these problems out there -- well, responsibility needs to go 2 back to the people who are not following the law and are not 3 keeping tags and collars and rabies vaccinations on their 4 animals. 5 Last year, we received over 2,800 animals out 6 there. Of those, 323 were adopted out, and that includes 7 those that went to the Humane Society and other 8 organizations. If there is such a community concern about 9 the number of animals that we are euthanizing, I would 10 recommend that these organizations, such as Humane Society, 11 raise money and increase your adoption. You can go out 12 there and we will give you every animal you want free, and 13 you can take them and hold them as long as you want. The 14 purpose of that facility is to control animals. And, I 15 don't -- I do not see us raising taxes, in my opinion, for 16 that purpose. If people want to donate money and help us, 17 through their generosity and individual choice, to build a 18 larger facility, possibly staff that facility, I think we'd 19 probably certainly entertain it. I'd be happy to see that. 20 So, if the people that say -- or if you say 21 people want us to raise taxes, I don't hear that. But, if 22 -- you know, if there's that many people that you think want 23 to raise taxes, I suggest you all go out there and start 24 raising money, and either contribute it to one of the other 25 adoption centers in the county or to the County for the 54 1 designated purpose of expanding that facility and staffing 2 it. I mean, until we get that kind of support or input from 3 the community, my personal feeling is we should operate the 4 way we are. I think we're doing a very good job. 5 MR. HARRIS: Well, I know that the Animal 6 Control has a difficult job. Like I stated earlier, I 7 couldn't do it. It's not -- I know they have a tough job, 8 but the bottom line is, 48 hours is not long enough, and 9 that's what's the people of Kerr County says. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a question. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- raise funds, and we 13 can solve it. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a question. 15 How many -- and we may not have a precise statistic on it, 16 but how many tagged animals have we euthanized in the last 17 year? Do we have a feel for that, Marc? 18 MR. ALLEN: I don't have the number on that, 19 but we very seldom -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would suspect that's 21 a very low number. 22 MR. ALLEN: Very low number. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I know that -- I 24 know that maybe a 16-year-old dog, for example, for whatever 25 reason, may not medically be able to wear a collar. I 55 1 suspect that a 16-year-old dog doesn't run very much, 2 either. 3 MR. HARRIS: No. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, probably not a -- 5 not a nuisance to neighbors or anybody else. But, I know my 6 animal, I -- he does not like a collar and tag, never has. 7 But he's never without it, because -- because if -- in that 8 rare instance where he might get picked up, I sure want him 9 to -- 10 MR. HARRIS: Sure. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- to have an 12 identification that somebody can call me on. So, I think -- 13 as Commissioner Letz says, that is the rule. And, unless 14 there is some bona fide -- and I think those would be very 15 rare -- some bona fide reason for an animal not to be 16 tagged, I just don't understand that. I mean, as an animal 17 owner myself, if something happened to him, I'd be -- it's 18 like one of my kids. But if -- I just don't understand why 19 an owner can't tag -- and maybe it's an educational thing, 20 you know. It is the one way that you know you're probably 21 going to get your animal back. And -- and it's also a 22 responsible thing to do, to let Animal Control people and 23 your neighbors know that that animal has been rabies 24 vaccinated and is no threat to the community. But, I share 25 your passion that we want to do what's right, and -- and we 56 1 should. And we should be reviewing, and I know we are, and 2 we'll continue to do so. But, it's -- 3 MR. HARRIS: I agree with you that people 4 need to be responsible pet owners. There are a lot of 5 responsible pet owners out there that get their animals 6 picked up. I've had some problems in the past -- it's been 7 a long time ago -- where animals have gotten out of mine, 8 and I had my name on the collars and things like that. Out 9 -- when I lived way out in the county, and I -- luckily, I 10 had people that were nice enough to call me and say, "I've 11 got your dogs down here." I think what happens not only 12 happens to irresponsible pet owners, but to responsible pet 13 owners. That also happens. But, I still feel that the 48 14 hours is not long enough for -- one of the problems is that 15 weekends fall -- Saturdays and Sundays, people are out of 16 town; their animals get loose. I travel some during the 17 year, and I have people that have -- in fact, I have two or 18 three people that take care of my animals. I make sure that 19 they get taken care of; somebody checks the other person. 20 Things happen. The animals get loose. People don't know 21 what to do. They don't know the rules. Again, they don't 22 know who to contact or -- or how you should do it. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the reason I 24 say that's probably an educational thing. 25 MR. HARRIS: Right. 57 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And we can look at 2 that. 3 MR. HARRIS: And we're trying to educate also 4 in the -- in the Humane Society, we're trying to educate 5 people to spay and neuter their animals, tag them, and abide 6 by rules and laws, and we are trying to do that. We go to 7 the schools, we do education at schools. We do -- there's a 8 whole lot of things we're doing at the Humane Society to try 9 to educate folks, but the bottom line is that 48 hours is 10 not long enough for folks to claim their animals. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, if I may bring 12 this to some closing for today, I'll be glad to work with 13 Commissioner Letz and -- in a review of our procedures and 14 processes, and bring that back to the Court and to the 15 public for -- to see what we can do and what the -- we 16 probably need to evaluate what some costs are, how those 17 costs might be raised, other than taxes, through other means 18 and so on, and work with the -- the local shelter groups and 19 concerned folks on this and see what we can come up with. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I -- if may I make one 21 more quick comment on this space out there, which is the -- 22 the main limiting factor right now, there are state laws 23 that we have to follow regarding you're going to have one, 24 you know, dog in a kennel, and if you have certain ones that 25 are quarantine kennels, you can only use them for 58 1 quarantine; they have to be reserved. 2 MR. HARRIS: Sure. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not just a matter of 4 adding $100 worth of kennels. It's also -- there's a sewage 5 treatment facility out there that has to handle all the 6 waste; it can't go out on the ground. We'd have to update 7 that and expand that, which is very expensive. So, we're 8 not talking about a small expenditure; we're talking 9 about -- in fact, we looked at it, I think, the first year I 10 was on the Court, about expanding the facility, and it was 11 $30,000 or $40,000 minimum just to basically double the 12 capacity, which still is not going to solve the problem. 13 You know, we pick up 200, 250 animals a month. If we keep 14 them for longer than 48 hours, we're talking about a major 15 expenditure of that facility -- expansion of the facility to 16 make it large enough that we can hold animals five days. I 17 mean, that's just -- that's a tremendous difference. 18 Probably, you know -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Does the Humane 20 Society have other -- have facilities to store animals? 21 MR. HARRIS: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: House them? 23 MR. HARRIS: We take -- we take in animals 24 and adopt out, yes. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What -- the reason I 59 1 ask is that -- is that maybe there could be some cooperative 2 agreements where -- where -- and I'm just guessing here, but 3 maybe we could have a cooperative agreement where, when the 4 facility is full and we have -- and I'm not proposing this, 5 but if we had animals that have been held for 48 hours and 6 we don't have the capacity to keep them longer than that, 7 then maybe if other organizations have facilities, we can 8 pass them along to them. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we work very 10 closely with the Humane Society. 11 MR. HARRIS: Yeah. They bring animals to us 12 and we take them in over there as we can, as we have space 13 for them. They've been real good about that. We've tried 14 to adopt out to try to help put the pressure off of the 15 County facilities. We've -- we have done that. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, good. 17 MR. HARRIS: We're trying to -- as you know, 18 trying to find a facility where we can handle even more to 19 take even more pressure off Kerr County. We're -- we're 20 doing everything we can. We're pushing spay and neuter. 21 We're -- we want to have them all tagged so people know who 22 they are. We even had a microchip -- we started out trying 23 to microchip all the animals, trying -- so they could go 24 back and find their owners, the original owners. And, you 25 know, I don't have a problem, if an animal is running loose, 60 1 I think you -- and they're in violation of the law, they 2 should be fined. I mean, the money for the fines should 3 help go back to solve the problem. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions or 5 comments for Mr. Harris? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My final comment is that 7 I think that the sign is a good idea to put outside and post 8 that. I think it's a good -- something we can certainly do 9 and advise the public on procedures and how long the period 10 is, and we can certainly take care of something like that. 11 I see Marc Allen nodding his head that, you know, he agrees. 12 So -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: We also had -- we also had 14 Mr. Dixon Mahon sign up to talk to us about this item. 15 Thank you, Mr. Harris. 16 MR. HARRIS: Thank you. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Mahon, do you want to 18 come forward? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, while he's 20 coming up, I would like to make a comment that I am one 21 Commissioner that thinks that maybe that 48 hours should be 22 expanded some. Forty-eight hours just seems like -- you 23 know, it's a Friday and -- I mean a Saturday and a Sunday, 24 and that may not be enough time. And I'd like to look at 25 expanding that another day. 61 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We'd like to make it 2 as long as we can; that should be our goal. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And see what the cost 4 might be to do that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think our current 6 procedures are that we do it as long as we can, space 7 available. They'll keep them 48 hours. If we have space, 8 we keep them there. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We keep them until we 10 can't keep them any longer. 11 MR. ALLEN: Weekends and holidays do not 12 count. It's 48 working hours. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Weekends and holidays 14 don't count, Marc just said. It's a space-driven issue. 15 It's not trying to -- "Let's hurry up. It's been 48 hours; 16 let's get rid of these animals." 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My point is, if we 18 could see what the cost would be to expand something like 19 that so these good 600 people can come in, provide the cash 20 to build that facility. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I see where you're going. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have one other 23 question. In your search for a piece of property for 24 H.S.K., Larry, how much property are you searching for? 25 MR. HARRIS: Well, 5 to 10 acres. We're 62 1 working on a -- keep our fingers crossed. Schreiner College 2 may donate some property to us on the Loop. We don't want 3 to get too close to the -- to the Animal Control Facility, 4 because what -- what's happened to us is we have been dumped 5 on also. We -- we get dumped every weekend. People throw 6 animals over the -- over the top -- we have a 5-foot fence, 7 and they throw animals over, which causes a health problem. 8 They could break their legs. We have some incredible things 9 that we have to deal with, too. We just don't want to be 10 right next door to Animal Control, because all of the 11 people, of course, are going to dump their animals on us and 12 Animal Control, and we can only handle so much. You know, 13 we're trying our best. 14 I have worked -- I work a lot of hours. This 15 is a lot of hours. Our whole Humane Society works a lot of 16 hours trying to make things better in Kerr County, and this 17 problem. I mean, I -- we, none of us, make any money. And 18 I've enjoyed helping the community. We do a lot of things 19 other than just help rescue animals, too, for the area. 20 We're on a major education thing, trying to stop the problem 21 of unwanted pets, of spay and neuter problems. We've got 22 folks that are working hard on that. So, we're trying all 23 aspects of it to help solve the problem. We're not just 24 coming up here saying we need to -- we want all these 25 changes without coming up with some kind of solution. I've 63 1 been -- we've been trying to get solutions. I've been on 2 the board for probably eight years now. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Mr. Harris. We'll 4 certainly be -- 5 MR. HARRIS: Okay. There's some other folks 6 that would like to speak. I don't know y'all's procedure 7 about this, too. They just asked me. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: If they've signed up, they 9 can come forward and speak, but I'll tell you right now, we 10 are not going to devote much more time to this, because we 11 have an agenda. Come forward. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mr. Dixon isn't here? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Come forward, sir. 14 MR. RATHERT: Do you want me up there or 15 here? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right there. 17 MR. RATHERT: Okay. Do you want my slip? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, please. 19 MR. RATHERT: I'm not going to show you this, 20 don't worry. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: You have three minutes. 22 MR. RATHERT: Okay. Well, I got my dander 23 up. I'm obviously a dog owner. I take my dog serious. I 24 don't think he'd ever be in this Animal Control, but it 25 could happen. How it would happen, we like to go out once 64 1 in a while. When we do, we hire a lady that works with the 2 Kerrville veterinary operation here, and she won't take that 3 dog outside the house without a leash. It's a Weimaraner, 4 which is a sporting dog; it's a hunting dog, and it gets a 5 scent and it could be three counties away. So, if it ever 6 got off that leash with her and he was looking for me, God 7 only knows where he'd end up. So, that's my exposure. 8 The other exposure are a lot of deer scents, 9 a lot of coyote scents. I was told there are no coyotes up 10 there, but we have observed coyotes since I was told that 11 there weren't any up there. But, we have to co-exist with 12 that. I'm prepared to handle that without shooting them. 13 That was advice I got, but I don't believe in that either. 14 But, I'm saying at first I thought it's never going to 15 happen to me; I'm not going to show up. But, it could. And 16 maybe I've got her there taking care of my dog for four or 17 five days while we've taken a little vacation somewhere. I 18 come back and I find out that, jeez, you had two days. 19 Where the heck were you? 20 The other point that I didn't even think 21 about that came up as a result of hearing all this, I got a 22 call one day from a fellow that said, "Gee, do you own a 23 dog?" And he described it. I don't recall the description 24 now, but it has 257-606-, and I can't read the last digit, 25 because it's all messed up. And if you look at your own dog 65 1 tags, maybe you'll find out that after wear and tear, 2 wearing all the time, it's not legible either. And I think 3 maybe you could find a better system of putting some tag on 4 there that's better identified so that if he does get loose 5 and he does have his collar, they can get back to you. I 6 finally advised him -- I called him back and I said, "Well, 7 you got 6068. Why don't you try 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 -- you only 8 got nine other calls to make." I have no idea what happened 9 to that. But, you say the paper was unfair, and we all know 10 sometimes stories aren't factual. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I didn't say that. 12 MR. RATHERT: Well, I don't know. That's 13 what I heard. We don't always hear what people mean or what 14 they say. But, what disturbed me in the article was two 15 people called up and were told their dog was not there. And 16 I don't want to -- I'm just saying that's disturbing to me, 17 reading the paper. And also the caption under the picture 18 suggested this was death row, that these dogs were here to 19 be put away, and I think the intent should be to try to 20 salvage that dog. Now, this picture is important to me 21 because it's my dog. It's a Weimaraner. He took his first 22 ribbon when he was six months old. He took Best of Breed at 23 Carson City, so it's -- I'm very proud of my dog. But this, 24 in particular -- 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Rathert, I need to ask 66 1 you to bring this to a close, sir. 2 MR. RATHERT: Okay. Can I have another 3 minute? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: You can have about another 30 5 seconds. 6 MR. RATHERT: She is in Animal Control in 7 Reno, Nevada, and they had a lost Weimer, and she spent 8 three weeks trying to find that Weimer a home. And I think 9 you could learn a lot from people by maybe contacting people 10 in Reno or other communities on how they handle dogs. As I 11 understand it, they give a dog 30 days of life. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. 13 MR. RATHERT: And that's what's I would have 14 requested for, not five days. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anyone else? Come 16 forward. 17 MR. BARNETT: First of all, Commissioners, 18 good morning. The gentleman, good morning. I'm happy to 19 have a chance to make a couple comments. Let me make a 20 couple -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Please give us your name 22 first. 23 MR. BARNETT: Sorry. Thomas Barnett. It's 24 written there. It's written there. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The court reporter doesn't 67 1 have the advantage of this. 2 MR. BARNETT: My name is Thomas Barnett. Let 3 me make a couple comments off of what I was going to say 4 about this conversation. First of all, we -- talking about 5 raising taxes, I don't know that that is necessary at all. 6 I'm not telling you your business, obviously, but I assume 7 as we get more human beings coming in here, they pay taxes 8 like you and I and you get more money in. We're just saying 9 that maybe a portion of that should go to this particular 10 effort, as well, which I don't think it is asking too much. 11 Larry Harris is quoted as saying that a community -- a 12 community's treatment of its four-legged animals is a mirror 13 of the community's values. I fear he may be right. I hope 14 not, because we're not exactly kind to our animals. And 15 that's to our own detriment. 16 An off-line example is, we all -- us 17 newcomers visit Kerrville, we fall in love with the place, 18 the beautiful flowers, the trees, the hills, the valleys, 19 and the deer, which are right at arm's length. Then we move 20 here, and there are too many deer. They eat my lawn. I was 21 sitting at the breakfast table one morning. I look out 22 there, and here's one eating my favorite new rose. So, I 23 went out and explained to him he couldn't do that. Then I 24 put a cage around it, so we arrived at an arrangement. With 25 dogs and cats, we create our problem because we don't spay 68 1 and neuter, "we" being the general public. As Mr. Harris 2 just pointed out, we raised a considerable amount of money; 3 my wife and I did most of the effort for spay and neuter. 4 But the money is largely sitting there because people are 5 too ignorant, too lazy, or too stupid to get -- to spay and 6 neuter, and there should be some kind of ordinance that they 7 have to; otherwise, fine them heavily. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Barnett, you have one 9 minute, sir. 10 MR. BARNETT: All right, sir. You may also 11 have noticed that we're, more and more, killing each other, 12 as well as other animals. Kindergarten, grade school, and 13 high school. Any connection? I don't know. I'll skip some 14 of my notes here, since I don't want to take too much of 15 your time. Now, we -- the people that love other of God's 16 creatures are asking for a 5-day mandate. I don't think 17 that's enough, but that's not my point. I would adhere. If 18 you furnish information quickly enough at the Animal 19 Control, I suspect the newspaper here would be happy to 20 publish it so that the owners would have another access for 21 a piece of information. I've had the pleasure of talking to 22 Mr. Allen on a couple of occasions. He strikes me as a very 23 honorable man, and so I must take his word that he's got a 24 space problem. So, get him some more space. Also throw in 25 a few people that are highly-trained, because I'm sure he 69 1 needs that as well. But that costs money, you say. So it 2 does. We get more people in town, we expand the streets and 3 highways, even more stoplights. We get more people in town, 4 we increase the schools because we have more children. 5 Incidentally, I'm just going over to deposit a sizable piece 6 of change for the school district. I don't complain about 7 that, even though I have no children and never have had. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Barnett, we need to ask 9 to you come to a close here. 10 MR. BARNETT: Beg pardon? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Your time's up, sir. 12 MR. BARNETT: May I have just a couple more 13 seconds? I'm almost finished. I don't complain about that, 14 because it's my duty and pleasure to help other people with 15 their problem. I have problems too, and this is one of 16 them. I ask your help in that. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. 18 MR. BARNETT: I'll stop, then. I'm not 19 finished, but I'll stop. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 21 MR. BARNETT: If I may, I will give you 22 copies of what I was going to say. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, you may. That would be 24 fine. We'll file it with the record. Thank you. One 25 more -- we can take one more speaker on this topic. Anyone 70 1 else who'd like to speak? Have you filled out a form, 2 ma'am? 3 AUDIENCE: I'm not on the agenda, I'm sorry. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there someone who's filled 5 out a form? 6 AUDIENCE: No, I didn't fill out -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: The gentleman behind you has 8 filled out a form. We're going to take him. 9 AUDIENCE: Okay. I got into this very late; 10 I was out of town. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Give us your name, sir. 12 MR. GALINDO: Johnny Galindo. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Galindo. 14 MR. GALINDO: I don't believe in that policy 15 at all, the -- for the 48-hour kill. When I read that 16 paper, it just -- just tore me up. And I was going to -- to 17 Calvary Temple one day, and I saw him just took the two cats 18 out, had that collar on the cat, and pulled out that .22 19 rifle and shot them right in front of me. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? 21 MR. GALINDO: I just don't -- don't believe 22 in that policy. Just having more -- more time for the 23 animals. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, sir. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question. Sir, Animal 71 1 Control did not pull out a .22 and shoot two cats. 2 MR. GALINDO: It was in front of me. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It may have been in front 4 of you, but I'm saying Animal Control euthanizes the 5 animals. We don't pull out a .22 and shoot them. 6 MR. GALINDO: It was a .22 rifle. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it was not -- now, 8 Marc, am I correct in that? 9 MR. ALLEN: We do not shoot cats; it's 10 against the law. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Animal Control does 12 not -- 13 MR. ALLEN: I will tell you, we do shoot 14 raccoons. We shoot wildlife, but we cannot shoot domestic 15 animals; it is against the law. Once they've been -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I just wanted the -- I'm 17 not saying you didn't see someone do it. I just want to 18 make it clear for the record that the County Animal Control 19 Department did not shoot the cats. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We have a subcommittee 21 formed. Mr. Letz and Mr. Griffin will take a look at our 22 policies and procedures and bring back some recommendations 23 to the Court as to how we can improve. We're always looking 24 for ways to improve. At this time, we'll take a little 25 recess. Let's be back promptly at 20 minutes until 11:00. 72 1 (Recess taken from 10:30 a.m. to 10:40 a.m.) 2 - - - - - - - - - - 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is 20 minutes until 11:00 4 on Monday, March the 26th. We'll reconvene this regular 5 special session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 6 Next item for consideration is Item Number 5, which is 7 consider abandoning Kerr County maintenance of Verde Mesa 8 Drive E. in Vista Ridge Estates. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Precinct 2. If this 10 is the one I think it is, it's right inside the road going 11 toward Camp Verde, up the hill. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, it is. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 14 MR. JOHNSTON: We received a letter last week 15 from the developer who had bought the entire -- all the lots 16 in the subdivision. Bought the subdivision, basically. And 17 he wants to have the County abandon maintenance on that 18 road, and he wants to put up a gate, I guess, and have a 19 gated subdivision. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You suspect? 21 MR. JOHNSTON: The road's about two years 22 old, possibly. The County really hasn't done any 23 maintenance. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's a new road, 25 probably less than two years old, and it's right across the 73 1 road from another gated community. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which may have some 4 bearing on why he wants to do this. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Have any of the lots in the 6 subdivision been sold? 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Apparently this one person 8 owns them all, this one company, Valley One. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: So we don't have to worry 10 about consent of all the landowners? 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do we have to have a 13 public hearing, since it's -- since we're abandoning this? 14 I think we do. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other issue is -- I 16 mean, depends whether the developer is going to do a public 17 hearing for abandoning the road. If he wants to abandon the 18 subdivision or replat it, he's going to have to do -- if he 19 goes in for replatting or revision of plat, there needs to 20 be a public hearing as well. So, I mean, if he's -- 21 potentially, what he's tying to do, he might as well try to 22 do it -- do it all at one time. It may be easier to abandon 23 the subdivision and start over or do a revision of 24 subdivision, at the same time abandoning the road. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: My feeling is, he probably 74 1 just wants to abandon the road rather than the subdivision. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just so he can get 3 it -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He's got some lot 5 sizes there -- he may not want to open up a new plat. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: That's true. Wouldn't get so 7 many lots. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think he might want 9 to stick to this. I think we do have to have a public 10 hearing because of the closing of a -- of a public road -- 11 abandoning of a public road. 12 MR. JOHNSTON: Right, I think so. Even 13 though it's one owner, I think we still should have the -- 14 the public hearing. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we'd be looking at the 16 first meeting in May. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm -- I'm going off 19 memory on abandonment of a road, because, I mean, it's not 20 required in the Subdivision Rules, but for the County -- it 21 is a County-maintained road? 22 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes, it is. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there a requirement -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure there is. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You have a -- it's a 75 1 public road. It's a public road. I think that's what 252 2 requires. 3 MR. JOHNSTON: We don't have to notify all 4 the owners, 'cause there's only one owner, but I think we 5 probably have to have a public hearing for -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, he's going to 7 make it all private. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what he's 10 saying. 11 MR. JOHNSTON: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So we need to set a 13 public hearing for what, May? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: The 9th? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 14th. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: 14th. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We already have 18 a 2 o'clock workshop. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll set this at -- 20 10 o'clock? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The 14th? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: 10 o'clock on May the 14th. 23 Do I have a motion to that effect? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I move that we set a 25 public hearing on abandonment of the road Verde Mesa Drive 76 1 in Vista Ridge Estates, and set a public hearing for 2 May 14th. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just a small point. 4 On this kind of a thing, I think actually what we're doing 5 is abandoning, vacating, and discontinuing. In other words, 6 those three words mean something in the state law, and what 7 that says is we're abandoning it as a public road, we vacate 8 any title to it, and we discontinue maintenance. So, I 9 think that's probably the reason -- I know that is, 'cause 10 I'm looking at trying to do some of those in my precinct, 11 and I think you've got to use all three words if you're 12 getting totally out of the business of that road. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that a second? 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a second. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, you'll style it 16 that way when it comes back, right? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner 18 Williams, second by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court set 19 a public hearing at 10 o'clock a.m. on Monday, May the 14th, 20 Year 2001, in Kerr County Courthouse, Commissioners' 21 Courtroom, for the purpose of abandoning, vacating, and 22 discontinuing Verde Mesa Drive E. in Vista Ridge Estates, 23 Precinct 2. Any questions or comments? If not, all in 24 favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 77 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 4 Item Number 6, consider the concept plan for mobile home 5 park for Lot 12 in J.L. Nichols Subdivision, Precinct 4. 6 Commissioner Griffin. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: This is one that -- in 8 fact, I'll let -- I'll let Franklin talk to this, but this 9 is one where we got an inquiry through our Designated 10 Representative for septic systems, because this came to 11 them, and then that alerted us to it. We had a -- a fax 12 from U.G.R.A., I believe -- and Judge Henneke and I just 13 spoke briefly about this, that this comes under a 14 manufactured home rental category, and we have an ordinance 15 that I think spells out what's going to have to be done in 16 this case. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: Well, I thought that, 18 but manufactured home rental community doesn't specify that 19 they're in a platted subdivision already. This is in a 20 platted subdivision. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But, it's being 22 further -- 23 MR. JOHNSTON: Further developed. Looks like 24 that would be part of the replat process, as opposed to 25 manufactured home. 78 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think so. We may 2 have to get clarification, but the ordinance we have says 3 it's -- 4 MR. JOHNSTON: We talked to the owner about 5 both of those ordinances, and -- and the more we talked, the 6 more we talked ourselves into it was a replat problem. But, 7 the real problem was on lot size. That's something you 8 might talk about a little bit. We looked in the book. This 9 area has a water system, so they go down to 501(e)(2). It 10 says no acreage limitation for lots served by community or 11 public systems served by O.S.S.F. Unless it strictly means 12 that you still have to go by that average 5-acre lot size. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Let me get my rules. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I -- what are they going to 15 do with these lots? Are they going to sell them? 16 MR. JOHNSTON: You have a plat, I think, in 17 there. They're going to -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are they going to sell them 19 or are they are going to rent them for purposes of placing 20 manufactured homes on them? 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Are the Reeds here? They were 22 supposed to come today. I don't see them. I think they're 23 going to place the homes and rent them. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's -- I believe that fits 25 squarely within the definition of the manufactured home 79 1 rental community. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: Even though that's -- it's in 3 a platted subdivision, it still comes under -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think that makes any 5 difference, whether it's a platted subdivision or not. I 6 think it's under the manufactured home rental community to 7 address minimum infrastructure standards for places where 8 they're going to rent lots and/or manufactured homes for 9 people's dwelling purposes. 10 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, according to U.G.R.A. 11 write-up, it says they'll retain ownership. So -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Unless -- 13 MR. JOHNSTON: So it's up to them to come up 14 with a developer's plan. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Unless the County Attorney 16 tells us to the contrary, I think this is a manufactured 17 home rental community, and as such, they'll have to fit 18 under the order for minimum infrastructure standards for 19 manufactured home rental communities. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, but 21 I would rather hear that officially from the property owners 22 than reading Charlie Wiedenfeld's hen-scratching here. I 23 don't know that this is a -- Charlie's legal document here 24 says that the ownership will be retained by the Reed family. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The other question I have is, 80 1 are they already renting spaces to manufactured homes out 2 there? 3 MR. JOHNSTON: No. They -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, this drawing is just -- 5 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- illustrative? 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, it's illustrative. I 8 think it's an empty lot. They bought two mobile homes, and 9 they were in the process of wanting to place them on the 10 lots, and someone told them they had to go to U.G.R.A. And 11 then from them, they came to us. So, as far as I know, they 12 haven't placed them yet. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we've got to 14 refer this one back for that to make sure it's -- we follow 15 the ordinance. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do, too. 17 MR. JOHNSTON: So, we wait for them to bring 18 us the -- the development plan? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, we should advise 20 them of that. 21 MR. JOHNSTON: Yeah, probably ought to write 22 them a letter. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we also need to 24 advise the U.G.R.A. and possibly KPUB that there are no 25 utility hookups out there until they have their plan 81 1 approved, which is what the statute says. 2 MR. JOHNSTON: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Doesn't say in so many 4 words -- do you know what proposed -- what kind of septic 5 system that they intend to get on here, or -- 6 MR. JOHNSTON: They have these little 7 drawings. I haven't talked to Charlie about it any further 8 than that. These lots are getting down to less than a 9 quarter of an acre, I think, so -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. I think they 11 got a -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They may not be able to 13 put a septic in. Depends what they're planning. You can 14 put a septic anywhere if you have money. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: Common septic, or work out 16 something. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. But I agree, I 18 mean, they -- it's -- I don't see why it wouldn't fall under 19 the manufactured home community. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's exactly what 21 that's designed for. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Development plan. 23 MR. JOHNSTON: That's what it's for. Only 24 thing I was confused about, it was in a subdivision already, 25 so -- 82 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's move on to Item 2 Number 7, which is consider the preliminary revision of plat 3 for Tract 53A of Kerrville Country Estates in Precinct 1. 4 Commissioner Baldwin. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, Mr. Johnston? 6 MR. JOHNSTON: This is a plat revision in an 7 existing subdivision. There's a 10-acre lot, and they're 8 dividing it into two 5-plus acre lots, and it's in the city 9 ETJ. Lee Voelkel's here. He might want to explain it a 10 little further. I think there is a preliminary plat for the 11 County. It also goes to P & Z. 12 MR. VOELKEL: Yes, sir. I'll explain that. 13 Good morning. Lee Voelkel. I'm representing Mr. Thos, the 14 owner of the property, here this morning. We have -- as of 15 last Thursday, we went before the Planning and Zoning 16 Commission of the City of Kerrville. They had a public 17 hearing, which will be their only hearing for the plat, and 18 the plat was approved as presented. As Frank said, we're 19 taking one 10-acre -- 10-acre-plus tract and just dividing 20 it into two. The plat does not show the improvements, but 21 let me explain. On Lot, as presented, 53A-1, there is an 22 existing residence where Mr. Thos lives. The other lot, 23 53A-2, is vacant. There is a -- a water system in Kerrville 24 Country Estates operated by Saddle Mountain Co-op. At this 25 point, the property owners have an option of getting on the 83 1 water system or drilling their own well. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Five acres. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have is 4 that -- to refer to it as "revision of plat" as opposed to 5 "replat." 6 MR. VOELKEL: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I move we approve the 8 preliminary revision of plat for Tract 53A of Kerrville 9 Country Estates, Section II. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 12 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 13 approve the preliminary revision of plat for Lot 53A of 14 Kerrville Country Estates, Section II. Any further 15 questions or comments? 16 MR. JOHNSTON: There was -- there was an 17 issue of who does what first. Did they resolve that at 18 P & Z? The City, I think, wrote us a note and said that 19 they wanted the County to approve the final plat before they 20 approved it, but it was my understanding that when it comes 21 here, we approve it, and it has to be complete and has to 22 stay here and go to the Clerk's office. So -- I think 23 that's the procedure, is it not? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the procedure we've 25 followed all along. 84 1 MR. VOELKEL: Can I comment on that? 2 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. 3 MR. VOELKEL: That was an issue that came up 4 at the time we presented this to the City. My understanding 5 is Tim Dolan, who is Director of Planning for the City, has 6 now approved the plat, and it is up to the County for their 7 hearings to approve it; that the City will have their 8 signatures on the plat first, and then it comes to the 9 County for the final signatures and final recording. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's different about 11 that? That's the way we've done it. 12 MR. VOELKEL: I think with Mr. Dolan being 13 new, he didn't really understand that part, and the City, I 14 think, wanted to always be the last one to review it and put 15 the -- put the signatures on it. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Doesn't work that way 17 here. 18 MR. VOELKEL: He's getting educated. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Lee. Next item is 20 Item Number 8, consider and discuss -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 8? 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: We didn't vote on that? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We didn't vote. 25 MR. JOHNSTON: I think I interrupted. 85 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any further questions 2 or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hands. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Preliminary revision of plat 7 is approved. Item Number 8, consider departmental 8 recommendation for annual bids on cold-laid asphalt, base 9 material, aggregate, emulsions, culverts, and equipment by 10 the hour. Mr. Odom. 11 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. Leonard Odom. What we 12 have today in this agenda item is consider the annual bids 13 and our recommendations for acceptance. The following are 14 my recommendations on the annual bids. The hot mix-cold 15 laid asphalt concrete pavement would go to Smyth Mines, and 16 Vulcan would be number two. That is a CC, or cold mixes 17 that we use, and Smyth would be the low bid. We would 18 accept that, and still suggest that we would go ahead and 19 use Vulcan as an option, should that not have a source. 20 Base material -- this is crushed limestone, 21 just like Highway Department uses. Our recommendation is 22 Wheatcraft, Red Rose Pit, which is off -- number one is off 23 Cypress Creek Loop there. Mr. Reeh was -- is number two. 24 He had a lower bid, but that pit is on the other side of 25 Comfort, between Comfort and Waring or somewhere back toward 86 1 Boerne there, so it's a long distance. And, what we've done 2 in the past is to -- location is also a cost factor that we 3 looked at, and since we're talking right here at Cypress 4 Creek Loop, like the microwave there, it's closer, more 5 cost-effective to use Red Rose. And if we're in the Comfort 6 area, we'll certainly use Reeh. Also, Masters has a bid. 7 That is at 479 and I-10 there, and that's good for that west 8 end of the county, should we have a need there, so our 9 recommendation is to go with, number one, Wheatcraft first, 10 and then location has a factor in where we're going, the 11 hauling rate and like that, so we would suggest that we take 12 all three, but priority goes to Red Rose Pit. 13 On Type B, the uncrushed gravel/pit run, it's 14 something that is just screened. The number one bid was 15 Wheatcraft, Red Rose Pit. Two was Rountree. Three is 16 Wheatcraft on 173, this pit there, and Bedrock is four. So, 17 we would go with the number one, but still use those others 18 as options, based upon location and availability. 19 Type C is crushed gravel. That is pit run, 20 but basically they run it through a crusher and they crush 21 it. We get some angular -- we get angles on that rock. The 22 Type C is also in our specs for a certain type road. That 23 we take, number one, Rountree. Rountree had the low bid 24 there, and Bedrock is number two. So, we make the 25 recommendation to the Court that we accept those two bids. 87 1 We would go to Rountree as first priority. 2 Equipment by the hour with the operator. The 3 low bid with equipment that we have for the minimum, and 4 that was minimum, to build a road, was Schwartz. Number 5 two, we recommend Bobby Jenschke, and number three is Edmund 6 Jenschke. Edmund Jenschke had bid and had a little bit 7 lower price, but his equipment was smaller. We ended up 8 with a D-6 at $100 an hour, and Bobby Jenschke had one at 9 $110. Just due to the fact of use of productivity and more 10 production, that that $10 an hour is logical in the scope of 11 heavy equipment or road building, that we would go with 12 Bobby as number two, and number three would still be Edmund. 13 So, the first would be Schwartz as our primary to do the -- 14 the work for the County, and should the others be there, we 15 suggest -- our recommendation is to take these three, and in 16 this order. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, is Bobby 18 Jenschke -- has he expanded his operation again? 19 MR. ODOM: Yes. He's come back and he's 20 still doing work. And, basically, this is the first time 21 about in about five years we've had a bid from Bobby. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: He had sort of retired 23 for a while, but I guess -- 24 MR. ODOM: He did retire, and he's come back, 25 and he's got a D-7E, very quick piece of machinery. We can 88 1 do a lot of work. Bobby is -- Bobby's done work for the 2 County before in the past; he's done good work. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MR. ODOM: Paving aggregate, we have Type B, 5 which is crushed gravel, crushed stone, or natural limestone 6 rock asphalt. Number one was Bedrock. Number two was 7 Wheatcraft, and number three was Smyth Mines. Smyth had a 8 lower bid, but they're located in Uvalde, Texas, and 9 that's -- this bid was f.o.b. plant. And number four was 10 Drymala, but Drymala does not crush rock. He only shakes it 11 out, segregates it, but it's not a crushed rock. It's a 12 screened rock, but it's not crushed. The next bid -- and 13 our recommendation is Bedrock first, with the others, as we 14 mentioned, still to be used should that need arise. 15 PB is a precoated rock, and the bid on that 16 is Smyth Mines would be the best, and Vulcan. That is an 17 f.o.b. delivered price to Kerrville, within a 25-mile radius 18 of Kerrville. I think we got it for $18 a ton; that's a 19 real good price for a good rock that meets specifications 20 for TexDOT. These companies do TexDOT, so we get some good 21 skid resistance for our program, for certain hills and 22 certain roads with high traffic, and these -- this gets us 23 an option. So, Smyth is number one, and Vulcan would be our 24 backup. 25 Trap rock is a single-source item. It is 89 1 something that we have used on Rimrock, Scenic Hills, 2 Ranchero, things like that. It's a very hard aggregate, and 3 the only source there is Vulcan, and we suggest that we take 4 that one bid from Vulcan. Aesthetically, it's a 5 good-looking rock, and it is a very hard substance; it 6 doesn't wear down. The oil will wear out. Provided that 7 the oil -- and we're fixing to get to emulsions. Anyway, as 8 long as that oil is good, it will stay. 9 The other bid was corrugated metal pipe. The 10 number one bidder we recommend to use is Walters out of 11 Fredericksburg, and then Texas Corrugators out of San 12 Antonio be number two. We suggest that we would take both 13 of these; that those are backup bids. With Texas 14 Corrugators, in case Walters should not get us something, we 15 have the availability out of San Antonio. 16 The emulsions, what we recommend is Ergon as 17 number one. Number two is Koch, and number three is 18 Champion. On the bid, we had -- Champion had the low bid. 19 We had had problems with that supplier over a year ago, and 20 because of the stripping factor, that the oil would not 21 stay, the rock would come loose. And, we had that verified 22 by Rodriguez Engineering at the time we made the 23 recommendation last year, that it was low viscosity and/or 24 asphalt conditions. We also asked the engineer to look at 25 it and see if we did something wrong. Same people, same 90 1 equipment, same rock suppliers, different supplier of oil. 2 And, basically, the -- the opinion was we had a low 3 viscosity. Low viscosity means it will not grab, it's so 4 thin, and there's various reasons. At that time, we were 5 three-quarters of a penny below the bid. This year there's 6 7 cents difference. And we told them that we wanted 7 references, and in this packet you'll see these references 8 that we have. I don't know if you wish me to go -- read 9 this or not, but -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think that's 11 necessary, Leonard. You did an excellent job of checking 12 the references. 13 MR. ODOM: We did check the references, and 14 they were negative. And we told them that we have a 15 disparity of -- and let it be on the record, you know, 7 16 cents. However, we do not feel that we want our program to 17 go in reverse. We think that the same problem that occurred 18 when we disallowed them over a year ago is still the same 19 problem now, and we do not need to lose -- all our roads be 20 stripped and lose the rock. That's ludicrous. We're still 21 under the bid of 74 cents where it's 73. I have a disparity 22 of two cents. At 75 I had a good grouping. And, that -- 23 the information that I have, that we're looking at the 24 possibility for all of us in this county of about a 25 10 percent increase in fuel prices, so it concerns me. If I 91 1 got the 10 percent spread and another 10 percent through the 2 summer, I don't -- we don't see any let-up in commodities 3 prices on petroleum products. Maybe toward the end of the 4 year it will break, but we just feel that's too much of a 5 squeeze, and I don't think -- I think it'll even be squeezed 6 a little bit more. So, our recommendation is to go with 7 Ergon. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'd like to testify on 9 behalf of that. We, in my precinct, almost here in -- in 10 the City of Kerrville, right there in Kerrville South, brand 11 new pavement, I mean, literally coming up, and it's the 12 saddest thing I've ever seen. And he's run those tests, and 13 they come to find out it's truly the oil. So, sometimes 14 it's better to pay a penny more and get better quality. 15 MR. ODOM: We'll get a better quality. We 16 get what we're paying for. We're still in the budget that I 17 programmed for, and I'm a penny under this year's -- or last 18 year's oil, so I don't see it hurting. But, I -- I do think 19 that we're -- we're going to reverse if we take the gavel 20 with the recommendations of -- that they provided me 21 references. I couldn't get anything positive. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leonard, I'd like to 23 commend you again for doing an outstanding job in your 24 department on coming up with the number of bidders that we 25 had this year. And I make a motion that we approve the 92 1 bids. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Award the bids -- I want 4 to get the wording right -- the bids as submitted. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion by Commissioner Letz, 6 second by Commissioner Williams, that the Court accept the 7 recommendation of Road and Bridge Department and award the 8 bids for various items in the priority order recommended. 9 Before we vote, I want to say that you did an outstanding 10 job. I mean, this is the third time I've gone through this, 11 and we get more bids every time and the bids are tighter and 12 we're getting more interest, which has contributed to the 13 quality of the program that you all are running out there. 14 I just want to say thanks. 15 MR. ODOM: Well, thank you. I'll pass that 16 on to the men. That's a reflection on them. Thank you. 17 Truby and I -- 18 MR. LUCAS: I just want to ask real quick -- 19 I was reading a law book while y'all were talking about some 20 things. Are we awarding some of these contracts that aren't 21 the lowest? I think I had heard something like that? 22 MR. ODOM: Yes. 23 MR. LUCAS: Okay. There may be a 24 prohibition -- and, Judge, we might need to talk about this. 25 Even if it's the lowest bid, we have to look at responsible 93 1 and best. 2 MR. ODOM: That's right. 3 MR. LUCAS: That's what we're talking about? 4 MR. ODOM: That's what we're talking about. 5 MR. LUCAS: But there is a provision that 6 says if we do that, we have to give notice to that lowest 7 bidder, have him come before us and present evidence of -- 8 you know, of -- as long as he's within the specifications, 9 you know. And, I guess, you know, that's going to be a fact 10 determination. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: What we'll do is we're going 12 to go ahead and accept the recommendation, award the bids, 13 and then -- and then, you know, it's subject to the -- the 14 law in procurement, so that if they have the ability to come 15 before us, we have to send out the requisite notice. If 16 they have the ability to come before us and present some 17 evidence as to why we may have misconstrued their bid, then 18 we'll be prepared to do that. Does that work, Travis? 19 MR. LUCAS: Yeah. 20 MR. ODOM: And may I say, too, that this is 21 not cold turkey, that they do not know about this. I talked 22 to them last week and did give them notice of why, and I 23 gave them an opportunity to discuss this and to argue 24 anything, and invited them to come here today. I told them 25 that they could have the opportunity to say anything they 94 1 wished to. I was going to make my recommendation based upon 2 the same thing that I told you. 3 MR. LUCAS: That's great. Okay. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go ahead and act on the 5 motion, then we'll ask that Mr. Lucas and Mr. Odom consult 6 and make sure that we have satisfied all of the necessary 7 legal requirements for the process. Okay? Any further 8 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 9 right hands. 10 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Thank you, 14 Leonard. 15 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Appreciate it. If it weren't 17 for the Sheriff, we'd have a real short agenda. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way it is 19 every week. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Item Number 9, consider and 21 discuss granting extension for receipt of RFP's for new 22 communication system. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think the backup on 24 this one pretty well shows we did have our -- our vendors 25 meeting here, and the recommendation was to give the 95 1 possible vendors a little bit more time. We all agreed on 2 two weeks, due to their trying to contact tower owners and 3 site locations and work out lease agreements and things like 4 that. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Move we approve the 6 extension of the RFP for responses to the RFP as presented. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Third. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 10 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court 11 extend the deadline for responses to the RFP's for Sheriff's 12 Department communication system from May 11th, Year 2001, to 13 May 25th, Year 2001. Sheriff, is it my understanding that 14 Trott will send out letters or notify people who received 15 packages of this extension? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes, between Trott and 17 ourselves, we will. Trott offered -- mentioned that they 18 would, and I'll double-check. And if they don't, we will. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 20 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 21 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 23 (No response.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 25 10, consider and discuss authorization to purchase spare 96 1 printer from unexpended Capital Outlay money. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In Capital Outlay money 3 is 400-something dollars we have out of the Jail's Capital 4 Outlay. This printer is our TLETS printer; we have two. We 5 have one TLETS machine in the Jail and one in Dispatch. The 6 problem I ran into, as y'all recall awhile back, we had one 7 go down. These are 10-pin printers which you have to have, 8 and it ended up costing us more just for the service fee 9 coming out of San Antonio to do maintenance on this printer 10 than it would have to have a spare printer in backup, which 11 I need because we use these machines constantly. And, if we 12 had that spare printer and backup, then if one broke down, 13 we could just send it off to get it fixed instead of having 14 to pay a service fee to come up and fix it. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's this printer used 17 for? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: TLETS. Our 19 N.C.I.C./T.C.I.C. run and 28's, 29's, running registration 20 on vehicles, running wanted checks on inmates -- I'm sorry. 21 Little bit too carried away. I did it too long, too many 22 years. Anytime a prisoner comes into the jail, before he's 23 released, even if he's just in there overnight, we run 24 wanted checks nationwide, statewide. We run all up in 25 dispatch; we run driver's license, check vehicle 97 1 registrations, all that, anytime an officer checks out on 2 someone, so these are a constant-use printer. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 7 seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court amend the 8 approved capital items for the Sheriff's Department to 9 include a spare printer, and authorize use of the unexpended 10 Capital Outlay monies for that piece of equipment. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One more question, if I 12 might. Generally, I'm not real in favor of buying spare 13 printers, but this printer is not going to go out-of-date? 14 We're not going to have one on the shelf and then decide 15 it's an obsolete printer and throw one away? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. This is the type of 17 printer -- this special equipment is used constantly. It's 18 not going to change. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 21 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 22 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 24 (No response.) 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Item Number 98 1 11, consider and discuss new contract for inmate telephone 2 system. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This one is -- of 4 course, we all know the inmate -- the current provider is -- 5 is Evercom. The -- it used to be Security Telecom that was 6 issued in the contract years ago. Current revenue -- gross 7 revenue that the County supposedly gets is 20.5 percent 8 revenue off all inmate phone system proceeds. That contract 9 expires first part of May or -- or end of April. The County 10 had put them on notice last year that it was going to expire 11 and that they would have to renegotiate, because this was 12 all hooked into the computer system the former Sheriff had 13 done, and I gave them the opportunity to give us a proposal. 14 You have that in there. And we also got a proposal from a 15 local telephone company. 16 The proposal from the local telephone company 17 is the one that I will recommend, even though the percentage 18 is one or two points difference. One, it will actually be 19 less of an expense on inmates. The local calls are -- are 20 quite a bit cheaper if they're just calling family here in 21 town, compared to what Evercom was charging them if they 22 were calling family here in town. Plus, I think the service 23 of having it locally, that we can actually get service out 24 there quicker. It does advance our system to actually 25 giving us the capability of reporting and archiving all 99 1 inmate phone calls going out of that jail, which is a very 2 high security issue that I'm interested in, especially with 3 a lot of the things we have going on that I'd like to keep 4 track of security-wise for the jail. I gave this contract 5 to Travis to look at. He did find a few things that need to 6 be adjusted in it, and if some of those need more 7 explanation, I'll let him explain. But, I would recommend, 8 due to the short time period and that, that at least the 9 County approve the contract pending the County Attorney's 10 approval, and authorize the Judge to sign the same. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 12 It has been our experience with Evercom that their service 13 has perhaps not been very consistent over the period of time 14 we've had their system out there? 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The service I've had 16 since I've been in office has not been bad at all, okay? 17 It's just that, one, I do believe in doing business locally 18 if we can. The percentage rate Kerrville Phone Company is 19 offering us is 45 percent, compared to the 20.5 that we are 20 right now, which I think will bring in a great deal of 21 additional revenues for the County. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Question on the schedule 24 from Kerrville Telephone, that graduated schedule. But 25 we're going to always be over 45 percent? I mean -- 100 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: At the 45 percent. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll always be at that 3 45 percent figure? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. The number of 5 calls going out of that jail are tremendous, and they're in 6 that system. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Does Kerrville 8 Telephone provide all of the basic things that are listed in 9 the Evercom -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A whole lot of 12 things. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. What it is, they 14 will come in and replace all the phones in the cells that we 15 have with this same type -- exact type of phone that we 16 have. The only difference is the recording equipment is a 17 little bit different. It will still do the same 18 capabilities. I think Evercom's may have theirs specially 19 made by a certain vendor, where Kerrville Phone Company is 20 having to acquire this equipment. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would point out, 22 too, that one of the problems with -- that I saw in the 23 original Evercom contract was that after the initial term, 24 if we didn't notify them that we wanted to renew, the entire 25 agreement renewed for another five years, and that provision 101 1 is still in their present contract. Kerrville Telephone 2 Company, on the other hand, says after the initial term of 3 the agreement, it renews month-to-month if we don't say we 4 continue. So, after the initial term, we can go 5 month-to-month, and with 30 days notice, get out of it if we 6 wanted to. It's a much better contract. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I had invited Evercom to 8 be here today, along with Kerrville Phone Company. Travis 9 had been contacting -- or contacted Evercom about, I 10 believe, that exact provision in their contract. They 11 called me late Friday afternoon and said they were offering 12 us the best that they could do, and I told them, well, I was 13 leaning towards Kerrville Phone Company, and then they chose 14 not to appear today. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think that's one of 16 the -- the keys to doing business with elected officials 17 with companies like that. Are they willing to be here and 18 look us in the eye and have a visit with us and make these 19 commitments and noncommitments, one thing or another? So -- 20 but they're not here? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They were originally 22 planning to be here, okay? 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And you told them not 24 to come? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I didn't tell them 102 1 not to come. I told them I was leaning towards Kerrville 2 Phone Company, and Travis had already contacted them about 3 the provision change that he was recommending, and that's 4 when Evercom told me that they were offering us the best 5 deal they could do and weren't going to make many changes. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One more question, 7 Sheriff. Is it Kerrville Telephone Company or is it 8 Advanced Telecom Systems? 9 AUDIENCE: It's Advanced Telecom Systems. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry? 11 AUDIENCE: Advanced Telecom Systems. We are 12 under the umbrella of Kerrville Telephone -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Subsidiary? 14 Wholly-owned or something? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Judge, I'd like to 16 make a motion that we approve the new contract for inmate 17 telephone systems with Advanced Telecom Systems of 18 Kerrville, Texas. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 21 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court 22 approve the proposal for jail inmate telephone services from 23 Advanced Telecom Systems Corporation d/b/a Kerrville 24 Telephone -- Kerrville Business Systems, subject to the 25 approval of the County Attorney's office, and authorize 103 1 County Judge to sign same. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just one question, and 3 I'll just refer this to Commissioner Baldwin. Wasn't the 4 predecessor to Evercom -- didn't we almost end up in a 5 lawsuit? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 7 MR. VOELKEL: I wanted to make sure I was 8 thinking of the same -- 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You don't have to 10 address me. You can address anybody on this Court. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I don't think they 12 were on the Court. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, they weren't? Did 15 you want to be? Okay, that settles it. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I was aware of it 17 because I went back when we redid all the initial -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought y'all were 19 here. You missed a good one, then, fellas. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We had a lot of trouble 21 over two years ago with the predecessor to -- the name, I 22 think, was Security Telecom. 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Security Telecom. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And almost ended up in a 25 lawsuit that we had a very hard time resolving. I 104 1 thought -- I wanted to make clear that was part of the 2 record. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any further questions or 4 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 5 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 7 (No response.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 9 Item Number 12, consider and discuss approval of contract 10 between Kerr and McCulloch Counties to house McCulloch 11 County inmates. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This is just another one 13 of our commitments to use the space we have. We have a lot 14 of space in the jail. Sheriff Howell from McCulloch County, 15 which is Brady, public-serviced me a week ago asking if we 16 could house some of their inmates during overflow times, and 17 that's why I sent him a copy of the contract, brought a copy 18 back to the County Attorney. It's identical to all the rest 19 of the contracts we have. It won't be a large number of 20 inmates, but -- in fact, we currently have two or three of 21 their inmates in our jail now, because they got to the bad 22 overcrowding, so we're allowing them to send some over. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So moved. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 105 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner Letz, 2 seconded by Commissioner Baldwin, that the Court approve the 3 contract with McCulloch County to house inmates from 4 McCulloch County in the Kerr County Jail. Any other 5 questions or comments? If not, all in favor, raise your 6 right hand. 7 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 9 (No response.) 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of the big and 12 important things that we do, gentlemen, right there. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next item is Item Number 13, 14 consider and discuss renewing the Sheriff's Office telephone 15 lease with Kerrville Telephone Company. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This talk all came up 17 during our inmate phone system stuff also. But, what it 18 will do is, I currently have a -- what I consider a pretty 19 severe problem with our number of lines going out and coming 20 into the Sheriff's Office. It's numerous times each day 21 that we will pick up the phone to dial outside, and you get 22 no free lines, okay, which tells me other people are having 23 problems calling in also, because we just do not have enough 24 lines in that rotating system. With the current equipment 25 we have, we have the capability of adding three more lines 106 1 in that system without changing a lot of the equipment. One 2 of the other problems which really came up during these last 3 few weeks with having the investigators out constantly was I 4 do not have, as the rest of the courthouse has, the 5 capability of voice mail in the -- in any part of the 6 Sheriff's Office. And, in these discussions, if we renew 7 the contract or renew the contract lease agreement with the 8 phone company, it's currently a 3-year lease. If we up it 9 to the 5-year lease -- Travis also has a copy of that 10 contract he's looking at -- it will give us the capability 11 of having voice mail at the Sheriff's Office, and will add 12 the three lines that I'm in desperate need of at the 13 Sheriff's Office at the same time, and it will actually 14 change our monthly payment, dropping it by one dollar a 15 month. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Dropping it? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Drops it. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Increase services and 20 drop -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And drop the payment. I 22 think the payment is actually -- to be honest, it's 81 cents 23 a month that we're going to drop the -- the payment, but it 24 is dropping it and giving us a lot better capabilities. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Move we approve it as 107 1 presented. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Second. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And it may be another -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Subject to review, and 5 authorize the County Judge to sign same. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Griffin, seconded by Commissioner Williams, that the Court 8 approve the renewal of the Sheriff's Office telephone lease 9 with Kerrville Telephone Company for a 5-year term, subject 10 to approval by the County Attorney's office, and authorize 11 County Judge to sign same. Any other questions or comments? 12 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 13 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Okay. Item 19 Number 14, consider and discuss lower level construction. 20 Commissioner Baldwin. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. In your -- 22 in your background there, we put together some -- just some 23 notes, and I think it's time for us now to really get down 24 to start making some decisions of what we want to do down 25 there. Last week I visited with the construction folks. 108 1 You know, they had been using that area down there to -- 2 with the saws and equipment, to finish out the library 3 upstairs, and he told me that he thought they would be there 4 one more week, which this week is the one that he's talking 5 about. If you remember, we budgeted $60,000 to finish that 6 out with -- with the thought of using prisoners to do -- to 7 do the work. And, regardless of whether we use prisoners or 8 we hire people off the street, we still need to have an 9 overseer on the -- on the job, and that's kind of -- that's 10 where we are right now. And we need to -- I need some 11 guidance from y'all of actually how we can do that. You 12 know, do you want to -- do you want to wait until everything 13 is over? This may be -- the way I do this -- the way I say 14 this may be a little distasteful, and I apologize. 15 Nevertheless, I'm going to say it, 'cause I want it on the 16 table. Do we want to wait till everything is over and all 17 of the people that are employed by the County are out the 18 door? And start by hiring an overseer? Or we have an 19 opportunity to continue our relationship with some of our 20 employees. You know, it depends on how you guys -- what you 21 think is the best route to go. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to have an 24 overseer. We'll have to have some kind of -- of possibly an 25 architect or someone that sees that we get through the 109 1 A.D.A. laws and all those -- you know, the city regulations. 2 Someone needs to be there to sign off on that thing. And I 3 wanted to also add to it and remind you that we have a 4 County Engineer that, in my mind, is a -- is -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good engineer, too. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, he is a good 7 engineer. So far. It depends on whether he does this or 8 this in a few minutes. But he is the County Engineer, and I 9 think he's an architectural engineer of some sort. And -- 10 and I think that -- it's my opinion that we should use him 11 at times like this if we can, as opposed to going outside 12 and -- and hiring somebody. So -- and y'all have all 13 read -- read my notes here. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments by 15 the Commissioners? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. I would just 17 think it would be a good idea to go ahead and get that 18 planning process started now. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Even though we -- to 21 actually start the work, we probably want to get the 22 contractor who's now working out of there entirely. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Before we actually 25 start hammering nails and cutting anything. And -- and I 110 1 would think that if he -- if we can work something out with 2 -- with Keith, that that would be a -- is he here, by the 3 way? With Keith Longnecker. I think that would be a good 4 idea, because there would be some continuity on how things 5 got done and where runs were made and all that sort of 6 thing, 'cause there could be a lot of questions about that 7 that he might have good firsthand knowledge of. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I have visited 9 with him about that. He is willing to carry on the -- the 10 relationship. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, I would suggest if 12 we could come back with a sort of a plan, and -- and if 13 we're within the $60,000 that we've got and all that, that 14 we probably ought to proceed with all due haste. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We will be within the 16 $60,000. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a comment. I 18 think keeping Keith Longnecker on the job for the purpose of 19 helping us through that process is good, but I'd like to -- 20 for to us ask him or request of him first to do a complete 21 planning for the placement based on the input that you've 22 already gotten of need and so forth, so that without doing 23 it a little bit here, little bit there, we have a consistent 24 plan that takes us through from beginning to the end. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That could be just a 111 1 good sketch plan. It doesn't have to be totally engineered 2 at this point. Something for to us plan from. And then -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have some things -- 4 I mean, it's not like he's going to be starting from 5 scratch. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We've done a lot of 8 the -- a lot of things already. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I mean, my 10 comment is, I don't know -- I don't have any problem with 11 using Keith Longnecker, but I think -- I don't see any 12 reason to hire an engineer-slash-architect and Keith 13 Longnecker. This is a relatively small project. We're 14 talking about design more than -- and layout and making sure 15 we follow the city and state codes. So, you know, I 16 think -- I believe Mr. Longnecker is an engineer as well. I 17 presume he's licensed in the state of Texas. But I think 18 whoever we use, we need to have one person. I don't know 19 that we need have two -- two people -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For this size -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- working on a 22 $60,000 -- putting up some sheetrock. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, so -- you know, and 25 you mentioned earlier using the County Engineer. To me, I 112 1 think either Franklin wants to do it, which is not under his 2 current job description to do stuff like this, or use Keith 3 Longnecker, but I don't see the need for both. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We might just ask for 6 Franklin to do some -- just coordinate on does it look -- is 7 it a reasonableness -- is there a reasonableness factor? So 8 many times, you get two engineers together, sometimes we 9 even agree on things, so it gives you some confidence to 10 proceed. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would -- I'm certainly in 12 agreement with what we're talking about. I would like to 13 see us, though, do this, if we do it with Keith, under a 14 separate agreement. I believe the agreement we have with 15 him is specifically tied to the renovation. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: So I'd like to see us not tag 18 onto that, but to simply ask him for perhaps a proposal as 19 to what he would -- how he would approach the problem of -- 20 of preparing the drawings, the plans and specifications and 21 any oversight that we might want him to do, and bring that 22 back and take it from there. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I think it does 24 need to -- it needs to be very specific, that whoever we're 25 using needs to get the permits from the City -- I presume 113 1 we're going to get new permits. And also make sure we're 2 following all the A.D.A. and fire and -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He's indicated to me 4 that he would do exactly that, get away from the original 5 agreement and come in with a new agreement. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has he indicated to 8 you what his estimated cost would be to do that? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Less than $60,000. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, it will be less 12 than $60,000. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I should hope so. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But here -- here is -- 15 I have two problems that I want to bring up. One, we're in 16 far enough, Commissioner Griffin, to -- we need to make a 17 decision about the computer guru office space. Or we may 18 want to just go ahead and include an office space down there 19 for future use. You may want to consider that. We can draw 20 it both ways. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: To answer that 22 question rather quickly, I think for the computer support 23 specialist position, we're going to have to put it over 24 there. From discussion with Tommy and knowing a little bit 25 now about what kind of space requirements we would have, 114 1 he's -- he or she is going to need that separate place where 2 computer equipment -- significant computer equipment is 3 going to be located, and so -- and we just don't have 4 anywhere else that I know of, that Tommy knows of. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a yes or a no? 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's a yes. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That suggests that 9 you're going to move it out of the space that it is now 10 behind the Tax Assessor's -- Tax Collector's office, 11 ultimately? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not necessarily. That 13 -- that equipment could stay where it is, but we can 14 cable -- the cable is already there. We can cable all the 15 stuff that the computer specialist will need to an area over 16 there to be able to build web sites and all that sort of 17 thing. That's just a connection. We may want to look at 18 that relocation, too. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right. The other 20 -- the other problem is -- is using the inmates for -- for 21 the workers. Now, I visited with our good Sheriff a couple 22 weeks ago, and he made a comment that bothered me just a 23 little, and I want to get -- I'm not trying to hurt anybody 24 here; I just want to get everything out on the table. And 25 he made the comment of there is a possibility that they may 115 1 have to pull the inmates off of the job and go somewhere 2 else to do other functions. I don't know how many functions 3 they do; I don't have any idea. But, he -- that was a 4 thought that had been on his mind, that he may have to get 5 our worker bees and take them somewhere else and be worker 6 bees on another project. And, I don't -- in my mind, that's 7 -- that's really not acceptable, particularly if we have 8 someone on staff that we're paying every day, that we need 9 to have people here working. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is there a lot of 11 demand for carpenters and -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't know. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In prisoner's garb? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let the Sheriff address that. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There he is now. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Thank you, Buster. The 17 only problem I see is there are certain -- due to 18 classifications and that, even though we run 120, 130 19 inmates, you know, in that jail, there's a limited number, 20 due to security risk and everything else, that I can 21 actually pull out at a time that fit into the appropriate 22 classification. We are doing more and more with those 23 outside trustees, 'cause they can have inside trustees work 24 their classification, but different -- but outside ones, 25 we're picking up trash along the highways now, we're doing a 116 1 lot more of the -- the maintenance, especially around our 2 facility, the mowing and all that kind of stuff, and it can 3 get stretched. I have three to four right now that are 4 approved to go outside, and I have to have an officer with 5 them at all times for -- for the security. You know, three 6 or four may not be what you want over here. I don't know. 7 And then it's just -- there's a lot up in the air. 8 I'd be more than happy to provide -- and I 9 think we'd have, you know, plenty of volunteers for that 10 part, but I'd be more than happy to provide inmate workers 11 to do the amount of work that can possibly be done to save 12 us all the extra money. I just can't answer a lot of 13 questions of what type classifications we're going to have 14 in jail during that time, how many of them. Most of them 15 that are classified that can go outside are there 30, 60 16 days, and they're gone. You know, 'cause they're serving 17 out some short-term sentences or things like that. They're 18 -- and some of the classifications that -- that state that I 19 cannot use -- and this is something that you just need to be 20 aware of -- are, like, DWI's, okay? I can't use a DWI 21 person outside. So, it does get real particular under state 22 laws and that on which ones we can use. I'm more than happy 23 to cooperate and help do anything we can do. I just can't 24 answer you how many we could have available at different 25 times. 117 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's the 2 risk we take for the savings. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that what you need, 5 Commissioner? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, very good. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's move on to Item Number 10 15, consider and discuss review of Revision of Plat, Section 11 6.04 of the Kerr County Subdivision Rules and Regulations, 12 to determine if modifications to this section are needed. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I put this on the agenda 14 just because it's the one provision in our new Subdivision 15 Rules that I get, I guess, more and more questions about, 16 and the more I get questions, the more undecided I am 17 personally as to how we should interpret the rules. So, I 18 thought I'd put it before the Court, and I -- just to get 19 some direction, and then I can come back at a future date, 20 try to draft the language that meets the Court's desires. 21 There are three things under this provision I want to 22 discuss. One, due to an oversight, we left off a paragraph 23 out of state law that -- with regards to metes and bounds 24 being changed, and allowing that as a revision without 25 having to go to a public hearing process that we talked 118 1 about at our last meeting. That one is -- you know, already 2 will be done, or will come back to Court. 3 The next one is a -- is the second one listed 4 on the backup. It's review possibility of minor revision of 5 plat that would comply with Section 232 of the Local 6 Government Code and be acceptable to the County. This has 7 come up several times. We used to call them minor replats, 8 where we changed lot lines around, and just the 9 Commissioners signed off on them without bringing it back 10 before the full Court. During the -- this most recent 11 revision, we -- or I eliminated that provision because I 12 didn't see any provision in Section 232 to allow a 13 Commissioner individually to do anything; they had to come 14 before the Court. And, if it goes under Revision of Plat, 15 then it went through the whole notification process, which 16 has been a burden to the developer and I think a burden to 17 the Court. 18 With some assistance from an outside attorney 19 who was hired by a local developer, he pulled up this 20 particular provision, 232.010, Exception to Plat 21 Requirement, County Determination, as a possibility of a way 22 we had some wiggle room. And, I referred this to Travis 23 also, and I read it. I have a -- I guess a question that I 24 have with this provision is, the way I read it, is we have 25 some latitude into what we require to come before the Court 119 1 to require platting, but if we go in there and allow a minor 2 revision, I don't see that we then can require a revised 3 plat. I don't see how we can have a revised plat without 4 going through the process to the bottom line. You know, I 5 would like to -- my preference would be to not have to go 6 through the whole process of revision of plat and 7 notification, but have the revised -- but we do need to get 8 the revised plat in the County Clerk's office. And, it's a 9 fine-line distinction there, and I'd probably refer it to 10 Travis to -- he and I have talked about this several times, 11 and I guess get Travis' thoughts as to can we do a -- I 12 guess a revision of plat without going through the 13 notification and require the developer to give us a revised 14 plat. 15 MR. LUCAS: Right. Do you want me to talk 16 about that one? Okay. What's interesting, I found out, is 17 that a lot of counties don't use this, and it's been in the 18 law since '89, 1989. But, it looks like that we're going to 19 be able to use it specifically for the facts that you 20 presented, Commissioner, which is lot line changes, and it's 21 exactly the -- you know, the way the law reads. And I know 22 y'all -- do y'all have that before you? I think y'all do. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 MR. LUCAS: Where we have, you know, of 25 course, the element of there being a portion of a lot that's 120 1 already been platted, and conveyance. I mean, it's as 2 simple as that. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could we require that 4 -- that whatever document -- does that conveyance get filed 5 with the Court or filed with the County so that it becomes a 6 part of the record? 7 MR. LUCAS: Sure. I think -- 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Attached to the plat. 9 MR. LUCAS: -- we would have to do that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't think we need to 11 require the actual plat be revised; just document the 12 changes made. Otherwise, we end up -- my concern has been 13 that I wouldn't want us to get plats that aren't accurate. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. And that's 15 what happens if you don't have some way of getting that into 16 the record. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Well, that's the 18 -- I mean, if the Court is of the same opinion, then we'll 19 go back to this provision, which will eliminate or alleviate 20 the notification requirement on lot line changes. 21 MR. LUCAS: Right. What I would like to do, 22 if it's okay, is just have a discussion with other County 23 Attorneys who handle, you know, solely civil matters; maybe 24 Travis County, Bexar County, that have more development 25 issues, and talk to them about it. A lot of them were gone 121 1 last week when Jonathan and I first broached the subject; 2 they were at a county attorney's school, so everyone's been 3 out. But, I'd like to kind of have a discussion with them 4 to see how they use it, if that's okay. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good deal. 6 MR. LUCAS: And maybe we'll have an answer by 7 next week. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. And that answers 9 that one. The other one is a little bit -- kind of 10 philosophically more difficult for me. It's -- "grandfather 11 provision" is what I've termed it, and it's -- it came up 12 out of a developer or individual in Larry's precinct; Larry 13 referred him to me. This -- the facts of this particular 14 case was, it was in a platted subdivision. This person had 15 a 7 1/2-acre tract and wanted to sell it to another 16 individual. That individual wanted to divide it into three 17 lots, and under our current rules, the answer is no because 18 of the 5-acre lot size minimum. It's under. And, they 19 would be willing to put in a water system; that was not an 20 issue. And, you know, that's -- I guess, when I reread the 21 rules, that's how I came down as to what the rules say. 22 The problem I have with this is, after I 23 started thinking about it, you get into a situation of 24 property rights, to me, a little bit. You could easily have 25 a situation where an individual, five years ago, went into a 122 1 subdivision when our rules were 2 1/2 acres, bought a 9-acre 2 tract with the full intent at that time to sell off two lots 3 and keep one lot and build a home, and that was part of 4 their retirement plan was to do it that way. And, all of a 5 sudden, we come along with one Court action and say, you 6 can't do that. In fact, you can't even sell any of your 7 9-acre tract to a -- to have a building site. And, I have 8 a -- I guess a philosophical problem with what we've done. 9 I don't have a philosophical problem with -- we can go the 10 other way, too. I'm -- I'm not sure which way. I just 11 thought I'd put it on the agenda, get a little bit of 12 direction, 'cause to me, we're -- it's unfair to the public 13 and to some lot owners for to us say, you know, after 14 they've bought their lots and in these subdivisions that 15 were fully compliant with the rules at the time, that they 16 can't do what they intended, possibly. But, at the same 17 time, the intent of this Court is to increase lot sizes. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: My response to that is that 19 that's a variance issue. The person who owned the lot at 20 the time the -- we put the new rules in has the right, as 21 anybody does, to come before the Court for a variance. Now, 22 if -- if a person with a 9-acre tract sells it to somebody 23 else who then comes before us to subdivide it into 3-acre 24 tracts, I think that the subsequent purchaser has a problem, 25 because he bought the 9-acre tract knowing what the 123 1 Subdivision Rules were. But, I think the individual who 2 owned the 9-acre tract to start out with has a legitimate 3 method to come before the Court for a variance. That's my 4 response. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, that would work. 6 That would work. And -- but I think I agree with Jonathan, 7 we need to address this issue, because it's -- fair is fair, 8 you know. And, while we -- and what we did with the -- for 9 example, the new 5-acre rule is really, to me, more applied 10 to new subdivisions. In other words, if a developer comes 11 in and is going to put in a new subdivision, that -- you 12 know, because of water availability, septic, density, 13 doesn't make any difference. But, there is a new rule now 14 for new subdivisions, certainly, and that this older 15 subdivision that was created before that rule ought to have 16 some way -- and perhaps a variance is the way to do it -- of 17 sort of meeting the original intent of that owner who bought 18 the property. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think a variance is the way 20 to do it, because if you try to write something in, there's 21 no way to write something which addresses all the 22 situations. So, you do it through a variance, and when the 23 variance comes before us, we'll see what date they bought 24 the property, what the configuration was at the time they 25 bought the property, what the rules were at the time, what 124 1 their intended use is for the property. We can get some 2 advice from our Designated Representative as to whether the 3 reconfigured lots would be suitable for O.S.S.F. To me, 4 that's the way you address that problem, is through a 5 variance situation, rather than trying to write a 6 grandfathering rule which somehow magically encompasses all 7 the permutations. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And you never can 9 cover them all. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No matter how hard you 12 try. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I had recently, last 14 week, had the exact same thing come up. A guy in San 15 Antonio had purchased land out south of town, 24 acres, many 16 years ago, with the thought at some point he'll retire and 17 come up here and -- and cut it up into 2 1/2, 3 acres, 18 whatever it might be, but now we're telling him that he 19 cannot do that. And he says, "Commissioner Baldwin, you're 20 taking my property. You're a government agency taking my 21 private property," and he's absolutely right. But I think 22 that is a solution, variances. I've been doing this a long 23 time; you've got to be careful with variances, but there is 24 a place for them. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 125 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've been -- and, I 2 mean, I guess probably the best solution, because I think it 3 would be almost impossible to write a -- a rule -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It would be. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- that wouldn't be 6 volumes long to try to cover all the situations. It would 7 be so confusing by the time we were finished. But, I think 8 that it's also going in a direction that the Court 9 historically is not going to do, which was variances. So, 10 we've always tried to get away from having to do variances. 11 I think in this situation, this is one that it may be the 12 best way to handle it. Would the Court like to have a 13 provision drafted by -- you know, to add to our Subdivision 14 Rules regarding this issue? Because, I mean, it comes up a 15 lot, and people don't know how to handle it. Or just let 16 them call and -- you know, I mean, we -- I think you could 17 refer to it as a situation, saying any subdivision approved 18 prior to this, you know, date, the date we adopted the last 19 one, where lot sizes are -- you know, something -- come up 20 with some language. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: You'd have to be careful. 22 From what we just discussed, it would be the owners of lots 23 in a platted subdivision, but that was platted prior to the 24 date. So, I mean, you know, again, once you start trying to 25 put grandfather language in, you have to start parsing the 126 1 apple. So, if we have a variance procedure -- and, to me, 2 that -- that suffices for the situation, because otherwise 3 you have to -- you know, it's not just the fact that it was 4 in a subdivision that was platted prior to the date of our 5 new rules. You had to have been the owner of that lot. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: And then, you know -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, okay. Travis? 9 MR. LUCAS: I'll talk to you afterwards. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. All right. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just have a 12 question on 232.010. We recently had some situation just 13 like that where somebody came in with a 10-acre lot, or -- 14 it was platted as two 5's and wanted to make it 10, or 15 vice-versa, and that put somebody through a lot of hoops 16 just to do that, what we're doing right now. What would be 17 the mechanism for this? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The mechanism -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before, a 20 Commissioner could make the decision. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would still have to 22 come before the Court. It would be a one-trip -- I think we 23 could reduce it to one trip to the Court, basically. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And -- but it would have 127 1 to be to approve a revised plat, and with no notification 2 requirement, as referred. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Which, in effect, is 4 what we did. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In accordance with 6 232.010, is how you word the agenda item. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I'll -- do we need 8 to do a public hearing on revising this one paragraph, or 9 can we just do it? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It says "significant." 11 I think you could say this was probably not significant. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'd defer to the County 13 Attorney on that one. 14 MR. LUCAS: You know, I get real conservative 15 with things like this. I always want to -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Before you get to 17 that, could I raise one other issue, which -- and this 18 probably would require a public hearing, so we may just 19 follow it in time. I had mentioned to Jonathan this 20 morning, one of the things we do not address directly in our 21 Subdivision Rules are commercial properties that are in the 22 county. In other words, let's take a -- for an example, 23 a -- a piece of property along Highway 27 that is going to 24 have a strip center built on it. Totally in the county. 25 Could be in the ETJ, too. And, so, we're -- we don't lay 128 1 out any requirements about how -- how a lot might either be 2 subdivided, or what are those minimum lot size requirements 3 and that sort of thing, and it is slightly different. I'm 4 not proposing a solution to this. It's just something that, 5 after a brief discussion with Commissioner Letz, I think we 6 need to address in the rules. Just needs to be in addition. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I wasn't aware that the 8 subdivision -- there were different subdivision rules for 9 residential and commercial. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There's not. That's 11 exactly what I'm saying. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: So I'm not sure that we have 13 the authority to make a decision. 14 MR. LUCAS: Yeah. I don't think you do. I 15 think -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: One rule for subdivisions, 17 period, whether it's for residential or commercial, 18 industrial. 19 MR. LUCAS: Ag. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whatever. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we don't have any 22 authorization to have -- 23 MR. LUCAS: It's just solely subdivision. 24 That's it. Makes no distinction whatsoever. As long as you 25 divide a piece of property into lots where a subdivision -- 129 1 or for streets, allies, so forth, parks, that's the 2 definition of subdivision -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 4 MR. LUCAS: -- in 232, period. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not tied to use at all. 6 It's tied to dividing the property. 7 MR. LUCAS: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So, if you had 9 a property that was not subdivided, but had numerous 10 businesses on it, then you -- you're -- you're still looking 11 at just, then, a water issue and a septic or sewage 12 disposal -- 13 MR. LUCAS: Well, the roads and drainage and 14 all the other parameters. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: What you'd probably see on 16 that type of thing is you'd have one large lot on which 17 there'd be more than one business located, but it wouldn't 18 be sold off, particularly if you're talking about a strip 19 center. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Each business wouldn't own 22 their own lots, so -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Lease or sell the 24 structure. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 130 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I'll be getting 2 with Travis; we'll come up with some language. If we need a 3 public hearing, we'll do it. If not, we'll put it -- 4 MR. LUCAS: Just real quick, are you speaking 5 about 232.010? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 7 MR. LUCAS: Okay. I don't think we would 8 have -- my rationale is I don't think we would have to have 9 a public hearing to amend that, because the statute already 10 gives us that authority to do it anyway. See what I'm 11 saying? So -- and what would we be talking about? If the 12 Legislature gives us the authority to do it, it's 13 permissive, you know. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Well, that's -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Franklin, you had a comment? 16 MR. JOHNSTON: Only question that comes up in 17 our office, people call in; under the Headwaters rules, it 18 says you can only divide an existing subdivision -- you can 19 only add 20 percent more lots. Does that mean the 20 subdivisions that have several replat provisions would reach 21 that 20 percent, they're frozen, can't do any more plat 22 revisions? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, they're not frozen. They 24 just have to satisfy the water availability requirements. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: For example, in the 131 1 situation I was talking about earlier where the person had 2 the 7-acre lot, say we were going to let them sell off two 3 lots. If there's 100 lots in that subdivision, they 4 wouldn't have to do anything. If that was the -- if that 5 revision would put them over that 20 percent threshold, then 6 they'd have to do a water -- meet the water availability 7 requirements. 8 MR. JOHNSTON: If a subdivision is such that 9 the average lot size is less than 5 acres and all, it could 10 be a matter of that they could never replat again. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, just depends. 12 They have to look at all the exemptions, to the water 13 availability requirements and the number of replats, 14 compared to the -- that have already been done. 15 (Discussion off the record.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, okay. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right, good. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: The hour draws close to noon. 19 What's the desire of the Court? Do you want to push 20 through? Do you want to -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Press. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Press, okay. Next item is 23 Item Number 16, consider and discuss approval of reserved 24 parking plan for lower level parking and authorize County 25 Judge to make minor revisions. What I'm handing out now is 132 1 an already revised plan. Basically, what the plan did was 2 it took some people from the west side and moved them to the 3 east side. The County Clerk, Jannett Pieper, said she wants 4 to be up -- up on the top level, and we'll give her a space 5 on the west side once we get that lot done. The reason I'm 6 bringing this -- I think this needs to be a -- a Court 7 action. The urgency of it is that we have a massive jury 8 pool coming in a week from tomorrow, and I think they've 9 called 500 people, because it's that civil wrongful death 10 trial for Alan Blackthorn out of San Antonio. And yours 11 truly is one of the jury pool. But I think it would be 12 beneficial if we get this in place; people could start 13 parking down there. Make it effective Monday, the 2nd, 14 which will give the Maintenance Department some time to -- 15 to do a few moving signs and -- and maybe a little striping. 16 It's going to take longer, and also some fund reallocation 17 to get the -- the bumpers. That's something we'll have to 18 address probably as part of our budget discussions this 19 summer, but I want to get the approval of the Court for this 20 so we can circulate it, get people to start utilizing the 21 designated spaces and relieve some of the pressure on the 22 parking along the -- the perimeter. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can I ask you a 24 question real quick? I'm big-time in favor here, but are 25 these employee, employee, employee, employee? 133 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And these are 3 reserved, reserved? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And suddenly we have 6 Mrs. Rector out here on the end? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. She asked for that 8 space specifically because of the size of her vehicle, and 9 since it's -- you know, meets the criteria down there, I 10 mean, it doesn't make any difference whether she's there or 11 over here. The number of spaces is fungible. 12 MS. NEMEC: We're all asking for copies. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We'd like to see. 14 (Discussion off the record.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do you want to 16 approve? I'll make a motion so we can go eat lunch. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Second. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 20 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Griffin, that the Court 21 approve the plan for reserved parking -- parking at the 22 lower level and authorize County Judge to make the minor 23 revisions that are necessary. Any further questions or 24 comments? If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 25 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 134 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 2 (No response.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Of course, my truck is 5 brown and it's real small. Can I park at the front door? 6 No? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: By the way, just for 8 the record, I have asked the Judge to consider, when we get 9 up there assigning the lot up above, that we have, like, two 10 slots for Commissioners. Not just reserved. Two slots for 11 Commissioners. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe that's what we're 13 going to do over here; have one for myself and one for J.P. 14 1, and then two for Commissioners, and then the rest would 15 be for employees on this side. And, over on the other side 16 would be Ms. Pieper, and the rest would be employees. 17 That's the way it's shaping up at this time. Now, I'll just 18 tell you that when we get the lots done up ahead -- up 19 above, I would bring those back to the Court for approval, 20 because I want the Court to have adopted an order which 21 requires and requests our employees to park in these lots, 22 and we want to make these for employees only so that we, 23 again, free up the maximum number of spaces along the 24 perimeter. That would be coming at a time in the future. 25 Moving right along, Item Number 17, consider 135 1 and discuss a resolution in favor of a Hill Country State 2 Representative District. I had a conversation with 3 Representative Hilderbran in Austin on the 15th of March. 4 Our Representative was concerned about the fact that there 5 have been some discussions about a district which would be 6 Kerr County, Kendall County, and Comal County, with Comal 7 County being the majority of population. I agree with the 8 Representative that our interests are not necessarily 9 conterminous with that of Comal County, since they're in the 10 hot I-35 corridor. I think we'd be better served to be with 11 our neighbors, Gillespie, Kendall, et cetera. Harvey said 12 it would be helpful if we could do a resolution which we can 13 forward on and make part of the public record, and that's 14 why it's here. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So moved. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Third. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 19 Baldwin, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that the Court adopt 20 the resolution in support of a Hill Country State 21 Representative District. I will say, there's circulating 22 among you all a notice from Representative Jones, who is the 23 chair of the House Redistricting Committee, about a public 24 hearing on Wednesday. I'm unable to attend because I'm 25 going to be in Lubbock. I think if anyone has the time and 136 1 the interest to go and make a formal presentation of this 2 resolution, it would be helpful. If anyone has the desire 3 to do that, we'd be happy to provide them with the 4 resolution to take and speak to the issue of our desire to 5 be lumped in with other counties that have -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that committee 7 meeting in Austin? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is a public hearing on the 9 House Redistricting Plan. There's one Wednesday on House 10 and one Thursday on the Senate. But right now, we're 11 particularly concerned about the House, the State House. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's in Austin? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: In Austin. I believe it's 14 Wednesday morning, so anyone who's interested can talk. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll be up there 16 Thursday, but I wasn't going to be there Wednesday. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, yesterday I 18 had the opportunity to talk with David Gorber at K.I.S.D. 19 He asked that I forward him a copy of this, which I did. 20 It's his intention to introduce it before the K.I.S.D. 21 Board. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: We also sent one to the City 23 Council; I believe it's on the agenda for tomorrow, and also 24 gave one to the Chamber of Commerce, and they are going to 25 do a letter resolution in support of the Hill Country State 137 1 Representative District. Any further questions or comments? 2 If not, all in favor, raise your right hand. 3 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 5 (No response.) 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 7 Item Number 18, consider and discuss resolution reaffirming 8 Kerr County support for the TexDOT Spur 98-slash-High Bridge 9 Project. This is something that Bill Tucker has asked us to 10 do. Furthermore, he's asked someone to be at the public 11 hearing on Thursday to present this resolution. There's no 12 question about our support of the project, but we need to 13 put it on the public record, which is what the TexDOT 14 hearing on Thursday is. Again, I'll be out of town on 15 Thursday, but we do need a volunteer. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'll be there. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner Griffin, you're 18 going to attend and you'll read the resolution? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll point out that since we 21 didn't post that -- that meeting, no more than two of us 22 should attend the TexDOT public meeting Thursday evening. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are one of y'all going? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going to be in 25 Austin. 138 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's safe. I'll be 2 out of town as well. Any further questions or comments? Do 3 we have a motion to adopt the resolution? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So moved. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Second. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Moved by Commissioner 7 Williams, seconded by Commissioner Letz, that we -- the 8 Court approve a resolution in support of the extension of 9 Spur 98. Any further questions or comments? If not, all in 10 favor, raise your right hand. 11 (The motion carried by unanimous vote.) 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: All opposed, same sign. 13 (No response.) 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Motion carries. Next item is 15 Item Number 19, consider and discuss approval of Certificate 16 of Substantial Completion for the second floor courthouse 17 east end Phase 3B and Certificate of Substantial Completion 18 for the partial first floor, partial lower level Phase 3A, 19 and authorize County Judge to sign both. Mr. Longnecker. 20 MR. LONGNECKER: As you all know, I'm Keith 21 Longnecker, the liaison for the Commissioners Court for 22 remodeling and so forth. And, it's been two years -- over 23 two years, and we're still working on items of -- punch list 24 items, for the most part, to complete this. There are 25 several things left on the punch list which are not 139 1 complete; namely, window painting on the Annex, painting of 2 handrails out here, and several others that -- HVAC and 3 plumbing items that are still not complete. And, we've also 4 had one problem come up that was written in my last report 5 to the Commissioners about the brick mortar on the building 6 over here. It is chalking and we don't know at this point 7 whether or not it's the right mortar, whether it was mixed 8 right, whether there was anything wrong with it, or whether 9 it's just the cleaner that was used on the brick that's 10 causing it to spawl. 11 I recommended in my report that we have a 12 test done by Drash Engineering, who has a two-part test that 13 they would use to determine if that mortar is going to be 14 okay, if it will withstand the years that we expect to get 15 out of it, and/or if it's going to deteriorate and have to 16 be resurfaced. Also, in my report, I recommend sealing, and 17 this is the one thing that I think that both Judge Henneke 18 and I feel that perhaps we should hold up on the Substantial 19 Completion until this little problem is resolved. And, Mike 20 Walker is not here; I think he expected to be here this 21 afternoon, that you would carry over. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: He guessed wrong again. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We're in charge 24 of it. Mike's not. 25 MR. LONGNECKER: I know. 140 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We need to get that 2 clear at some point. 3 MR. LONGNECKER: It may be my fault, because 4 I said I didn't really know when you would get to this item. 5 But, at any rate -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Keith, before you 7 leave that, you -- you used the word "chalking" and 8 "sprawl"? I don't know what -- I don't know what that 9 second word is. 10 MR. LONGNECKER: It's a spawling. Spawling. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What do those words 12 mean? 13 MR. LONGNECKER: Well, it means that -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Come apart. 15 MR. LONGNECKER: -- sand and mortar are 16 coming loose from the joints in the brick, themselves. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. LONGNECKER: In other words, you can rub 19 your thumb -- your finger over it, and you'll get sand in it 20 and the mortar on your finger, that perhaps you shouldn't 21 get. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That doesn't sound 23 like a good thing to be happening, does it? 24 MR. LONGNECKER: No, but then my thoughts are 25 that it needs to be tested. In other words, did the -- did 141 1 the bricklayer, the masonry contractor, properly mix the 2 mortar? You can tell that by simply taking a noninvasive 3 sample of the mortar and testing it to see if it has the 4 right amount of cement and sand and the proper amount of 5 lime and whatever the ingredients are that make up the 6 Type S mortar that we should have had. And, the contractor 7 is claiming that this is caused by the cleaner they used to 8 clean down the brick. They used to use muriatic acid, but 9 it's no longer being used, and they have another chemical 10 that they use, and he's saying that sometimes this is what 11 happens, is that there's a light amount of chalking and the 12 sand and stuff coming off. It's real fine. It's not -- 13 and, my concern is that perhaps we should even seal the 14 building. And, at this point, I would rather see -- tell 15 whether or not we need to seal it or not, and if it is -- 16 mortar is not mixed, I think it -- properly, and we don't 17 have what we should have, then it's up to the contractor to 18 perhaps provide us with a seal, to seal it. Now, this is 19 the sentiment of the architect as well. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are you suggesting that we 21 hold off on both Certificates of Substantial Completion 22 until we find out about this chalking problem? 23 MR. LONGNECKER: I think I would, yes, 24 uh-huh. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think this is -- you 142 1 know, the -- I've talked to Keith about this quite a bit, 2 and I am very reluctant to even consider a Certificate of 3 Substantial Completion with what could be a significant 4 shortfall in -- in the construction of -- and I don't want 5 to give anyone any encouragement that they may be able to 6 walk away with a problem that we haven't tied down, whether 7 there is a problem, and what the solution would be. 8 MR. LONGNECKER: To me, the job also needs 9 about another week just to pick up several of these things 10 that are not right. I think Glenn and the rest of the staff 11 in Maintenance will need to see a few more things happen to 12 be sure that we are in a position where we can say that this 13 is finished. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Does the contract call 15 for some landscaping by these ramps? 16 MR. LONGNECKER: No. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's something we'll 18 have to put in. 19 MR. LONGNECKER: Yes. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree with holding off. 21 I think we can put it on the next agenda. Also, you might 22 point out, you know, our eagerness to sign this may be 23 affected by how much of this punch list he gets finished in 24 the next two weeks. 25 MR. LONGNECKER: Quite a bit of the punch 143 1 list is finished, but still there are probably two -- 2 two-thirds of it might be finished, but at this point, until 3 we get through checking everything, we would like to make 4 sure that it's farther along. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: So we'll just hold off on 6 this and place it back on the agenda for the next meeting, 7 if Mr. Longnecker thinks it's appropriate to go forward. 8 MR. LONGNECKER: Okay. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you, Keith. Is 10 there anything else? If there's nothing else to come before 11 us, we stand adjourned. Thank you. 12 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 12:08 p.m.) 13 - - - - - - - - - - 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 144 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 30th day of March, 8 2001. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25