1 2 3 4 5 6 7 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 8 Workshop 9 Monday, June 11, 2001 10 2:00 p.m. 11 Commissioners' Courtroom 12 Kerr County Courthouse 13 Kerrville, Texas 14 15 16 17 Funding Strategy - Youth Exhibition Center 18 19 20 21 22 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge 23 H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 24 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 ABSENT: LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Monday, June 11, 2001, at 2 p.m., a workshop of 2 the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, 4 Texas, and the following proceedings were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 2 o'clock p.m. on 7 Monday, June 11. We'll call to order this workshop of the 8 Kerr County Commissioners Court. Commissioner Williams, I 9 believe this is your initiative. Why don't you kick it off 10 for us? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The Court may 12 remember that we told -- advised about a meeting I had with 13 Mr. Gerlach, who is the Director for the Center for Economic 14 Development at University of Texas at San Antonio, and I 15 learned that his organization does things that we may be in 16 need of, which is to help governmental entities and other 17 organizations prepare funding mechanisms and do the research 18 and so forth and so on for projects that have value and 19 merit to the community. Having said that, I asked the Court 20 to set this workshop, which you did, and advised Mr. Gerlach 21 that we really would like to hear from him about his 22 organization and what ideas he might have for us in helping 23 to structure a funding mechanism to accomplish the 24 renovation/expansion of Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center. 25 I met with Ernest and -- Glenn Holekamp and I both met with 3 1 Ernest and had a long talk with him, and some of the things 2 that he has embodied in the draft that I shared with you he 3 has shared with us on an earlier occasion. So, I think, 4 without further ado, Judge, I'd like to introduce Mr. Ernest 5 Gerlach, who is Director for the Center for Economic 6 Development, University of Texas, San Antonio, and we'll 7 start talking about his ideas and how we might be able to 8 advance our plan. Ernest? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Gerlach, welcome. Come 10 up, sir. 11 MR. GERLACH: Thank you very much. To begin, 12 I want to introduce Dr. Gary Bridges, also from U.T.S.A. 13 Institute for Economic Development. He heads up what we 14 call the S.B.D.C. net, which is research -- very much 15 involved in research, business development, and things of 16 that nature. I understand this is just basically -- we're 17 going to have just a work session, and -- and there was no 18 -- nothing that would be conclusive or anything like that 19 would come out of this. After I talked with Commissioner 20 Williams, oh, I guess almost a month ago, right? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: About six weeks ago, 22 probably, yeah. 23 MR. GERLACH: Yeah. And, he gave me a 24 briefing and gave me some material on what you're all trying 25 to achieve with the -- with the new arena or the rehabbed 4 1 arena, and we agreed that it would probably be a good idea 2 for to us have a work session to look at all the 3 possibilities that the County and hopefully the City of 4 Kerrville would be involved with in making the new arena a 5 reality. You shared with me the Master Plan and some of the 6 other material, and when I got back, I put together this 7 document, which I think all of you have, Proposed Funding 8 Strategy. And, the idea was to try to do in a very -- in as 9 coherent a way as possible -- put down some ideas that could 10 be used by the County to move forward with that. And with 11 the idea -- and with the idea also, we would use this as a 12 point of departure for this discussion. 13 And I don't think I need to introduce myself 14 or the Center of Economic Development. You have some 15 material in that package I sent you that describes what 16 we're all about, but -- so I'll just go right in, and if 17 it's okay, I just would like to go right into the paper and 18 use that as a framework, and then just go from there. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 20 MR. GERLACH: Okay. As I said in the 21 Purpose, I'm going try to be as detailed as possible, 22 instead of going over all the points, because there's 23 certain points that I want to -- certain suggestions I'd 24 like to make for your consideration, and -- and, hopefully, 25 whatever comes out of this process today, at least you will 5 1 have a plan of action that you can consider, or at least a 2 direction for you to go. There are also certain assumptions 3 I'm going on; that you have not really developed any kind of 4 long-term plan for what you want to do with the arena, other 5 than get the arena into operation as quickly as possible, so 6 that's my assumption. But, what we wanted to do with this 7 paper today is to propose a funding strategy to make the new 8 arena a reality in as quick a time possible. And, as I 9 understand it, the current plans call for you to renovate 10 the existing facility. And, we've seen the Master Plan and 11 it's an excellent plan, I think, and this will be a 12 tremendous asset, both for the County and for the City of 13 Kerrville in terms of its long-term economic growth 14 possibility, and for enhancing the quality of life in the 15 community, and there is several strategies that we propose. 16 Now, I'll just go through this. First of 17 all, in terms of whatever fundraising strategy that would be 18 put together by the County, that would be fully transparent. 19 I guess I don't need to elaborate any further on that. This 20 should be a community-wide, county-wide kind of an 21 initiative. And, several times -- I know when we had talked 22 with Commissioner Williams, there were times we alluded to 23 the possibility of the County working with the City of 24 Kerrville in making this thing a reality, because both gain 25 from this -- from this -- well, both conceivably will gain 6 1 from this project. I don't know if there's any history of 2 joint projects with the City of Kerrville and the County of 3 Kerr, but certainly I would strongly recommend that this -- 4 if there haven't been any past efforts, that this be maybe a 5 model or at least a continuation of what has gone on before. 6 Also, this should be a -- a community/civic 7 type of project. The community should buy into this 8 project. It shouldn't be totally a government project or a 9 -- a project of a relatively small group of people. Not 10 only does this expand your funding base, but it makes the 11 community buy into what you -- what conceivably could come 12 later on. I'm going to suggest that this is a -- 13 potentially a really good economic development project. I 14 don't know, again, if you had talked or even conceived of 15 it, but this could be a tremendous catalyst for spurring 16 economic growth in that particular area around the -- the 17 arena, plus for the -- for the community as a whole. 18 Second, whatever strategy you develop, what 19 we're suggesting is that there's no one funding source 20 that's going to meet your particular needs, 'cause we were 21 looking at a feel -- or cost figure of 7 to 8 million 22 dollars, 7 to 9 million. There's also -- you're going to 23 have to look at the long-term growth possibilities in the 24 arena if you had other kinds of functions in the arena, on 25 the arena grounds, or -- certainly, you're going to have to 7 1 be concerned about the upkeep and the maintenance of the 2 facility over a long period of time, so you're going to look 3 at a number of different funding streams. 4 And, we tried to be as comprehensive in this 5 paper as we could, and -- in terms of suggesting what those 6 streams could be, but essentially, we're looking at the 7 possibility of local tax support, certainly, or a number of 8 state and federal grants, some of which we have decided that 9 you might be able to take advantage of to make this thing 10 work. Obviously, foundation support. You have several 11 foundations here in Kerrville, Kerr County, the Hill 12 Country, but there also are a number of other foundations in 13 the state and in the nation that could conceivably be 14 tapped. You have some corporations; you have some large 15 businesses in this area that conceivably would see a 16 terrific asset to invest in, and you may want to approach 17 those entities, as well. Individual donors who might see 18 this as something very worthwhile for them to pursue and -- 19 and contribute monies to the upkeep or the development of 20 this particular facility. And, last, but not least, is a 21 community fund drive. Again, making the community feel a 22 part of this whole process, because it belongs to the 23 community and they should be a part of that process. 24 Third, given that the City of Kerrville will 25 benefit along with the County from the effort, it's 8 1 recommended that some kind of City/County task force be 2 established to spearhead this initiative. This task force 3 should be, again, as broadly based as possible and include 4 public officials, business and civic leaders, 5 representatives from other organizations from Kerrville and 6 Kerr County and other stakeholders that you feel would be 7 appropriate. Efforts should be made to make this board as 8 inclusive as possible and as broad-based as possible; 9 inclusive to the extent that perhaps this Board is not only 10 focused on just business people, but it could be other civic 11 people, other individuals involved on this as well, and 12 broad-based in the sense that we're looking at the total 13 county and, again, the city/county kind of relationship. 14 And, fourth, to insure transparency and 15 openness, all meetings and activities conducted by the task 16 force, to the extent possible, should be open. Again, I 17 don't think I need to elaborate on that, because I think 18 that's probably the way you operate anyway. Fifth, to the 19 extent possible, the general public should have input into 20 the final design of this facility. I don't know to what 21 extent the consultant that you had allowed this to happen, 22 but, again, as -- just getting the community involved in 23 this as much as possible. Let me ask a question. Have 24 there been other community groups involved in this at all, 25 or has this been totally involved with the County and the 9 1 consultant? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It was a pretty 3 broad-based study group that represented a lot of segments 4 of the -- user groups and public interest groups, as well. 5 So, while we didn't have -- we didn't throw it out to the 6 public in terms of helping us design it, we had 7 representatives from a lot of constituencies that were on 8 the planning group. 9 MR. GERLACH: Okay. So, then you're pretty 10 far ahead on your -- you've already made a tremendous amount 11 of progress on that angle. Sixth, to accomplish the above 12 -- well, let me -- before I go with that, do you have a task 13 force set up right now? Or some kind of entity to spearhead 14 this whole effort? Or is it just community -- 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're looking at two 16 of them, one over on that side of the dais; the other one's 17 right here. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're talking about the 19 Commissioners Court right now. I mean, the purpose of the 20 community task force was to come up with a -- design a plan, 21 and that was done. That plan was, you know, turned over to 22 the Court, and then we're at the point now of -- of trying 23 to figure out how to implement it and modify it, if 24 necessary. 25 MR. GERLACH: Okay. Have you seen, you know, 10 1 the task force being used as part of the implementation and 2 development process at all? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not the previous task 4 force, no. 5 MR. GERLACH: Okay. But, where we -- what 6 we're suggesting is that that task force, whatever task 7 force is put together, that will take the effort, mainly 8 because that makes it -- if you agree with the inclusiveness 9 and the broad-based effort, that's a good way to do that. I 10 would also suggest, along that line, whatever task force 11 that you would put together, if you -- assuming you go that 12 route, a very comprehensive strategy be put in place, and I 13 think you would. That was -- that's almost a given. I 14 think right now, the only thing that you have is, first of 15 all, the Master Plan, and secondly, the material that the 16 consultant provided to you, which I think you provided me. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 18 MR. GERLACH: So, at this point, no overall 19 strategy or implementation strategy exists; am I correct on 20 that? 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's correct. 22 MR. GERLACH: Okay. All right. Well, 23 obviously, you've got -- that would have to be done, and to 24 do a very concerted approach, because you are dealing with a 25 long-term project here. This will go on for many years, 11 1 and -- whether we want to accept that or not, it will be an 2 ongoing project. 3 Seventh, to broaden the buy-in for this 4 facility, additional activities and functions should be 5 considered, and where appropriate, incorporated into the 6 final plan. Right now you've got a lot of activities that 7 will be taking place in the arena. It's already there. You 8 have Government Extension Service, you've got other 9 activities that take place at the arena that involve 10 different -- different people, different parts of the 11 community. To increase the buy-in, I would suggest that you 12 might also want to consider other kinds of functions to add 13 to this complex that you're developing. And, that's the 14 reason for this here, to -- by developing the activity, you 15 also create a different -- different constituencies out 16 there that may be willing to buy in and also contribute to 17 this facility. 18 I mentioned several here, just off the top of 19 my head. I don't know if these are really feasible, but 20 certainly an agriculture extension center -- or education 21 center, I'm sorry. We're -- this may already go on in the 22 arena with certain activities. But, Kerr County is not only 23 a recreation or retirement community -- or will be; we're 24 going in that way. You also have a strong -- reasonably 25 strong agricultural base. I don't know about your local 12 1 high school or the youth and all that, but certainly the 2 arena could conceivably become a central part of whatever's 3 going on here in the county with the agricultural industry. 4 Certainly, it would include community conference facilities. 5 You have a strong recreation industry, a strong tourism 6 industry. You have conferences. It's conceivable that this 7 would be a terrific asset for your local hotels, for the 8 camping industry and so forth. Other related facilities. 9 And -- but, again, the reason why we're suggesting that is 10 to broaden your base of support and make it more useful to 11 the total community, while keeping the original functions in 12 place. Those are a given. 13 Finally, the individuals and businesses and 14 organizations that contribute to the effort by providing 15 in-kind and/or funds should be properly recognized, and I 16 think you realize this. And, there are a number of ways you 17 can recognize your donors and so forth, and -- but, for the 18 most part, people that would be contributing will be looking 19 at that legacy in the community and giving the community 20 what they feel is a very important asset, or contributing to 21 a very important asset. But, nonetheless, there should be 22 some kind of mechanism where you're going to recognize those 23 individuals. 24 Then I went over here and I sort of outlined 25 a number of fundraising strategies. The city/county 13 1 funding, I don't know what the current situation is. I did 2 a little research, not a whole lot. I -- we really think 3 that -- the City of Kerrville has a 4A sales tax? 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 4B. 5 MR. GERLACH: 4B, okay. But you don't have a 6 4A? Okay. I'm not sure what the County has. I don't think 7 it has either sales tax. This is an excellent economic 8 development tool. I think you've already been briefed on 4A 9 and 4B; I think you realize what that's all about. In any 10 case, I did provide some information the last time we were 11 up here from the Attorney General's office, which is an 12 excellent overview of these particular programs, plus other 13 activities that the County could take. Right now, the City 14 of Kerrville does have a 4A. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 4B. 16 MR. GERLACH: I'm sorry, 4B. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: City of Kerrville has 18 a 4B. 19 MR. GERLACH: I just need to get myself clear 20 on that. That may be a terrific asset, again, in terms of 21 raising money at the local level through the tax base. 22 Again, this is an economic development tool. This arena is 23 an economic development kind of activity, and -- and this 24 would be a perfectly good use for those kinds of money. You 25 may also want to go to -- either the city or the county, 14 1 okay, to adopt a 4A in addition to a 4B. Other possible 2 options that exist, both for the County and for -- also for 3 the City, certainly include tax incentives, property tax 4 abatements -- I don't know if that would fit in; it would 5 require more study. Again, this is just off the top of my 6 head. Tax increment financing, use of local hotel/motel 7 tax. Maybe this would already have been considered, anyway. 8 Issuing bonds for economic development, and creation of a 9 public improvement district. And this gets to the idea that 10 you could look at this arena as an economic development tool 11 to enhance economic development growth in that part of the 12 county. I understand, if I remember correctly, that's on 13 County land, right? That's not a -- that's very close to 14 the city line? 15 (Commissioner Williams nodded.) 16 MR. GERLACH: And that opens up some 17 additional avenues for to you consider. Certainly, on state 18 funding, I do offer some suggestions at the state level; 19 however, I must admit, I don't know statuses on some -- with 20 the demise of the State Department of Economic 21 Development -- not so much the demise; it's more like a 22 holding pattern right now. Some of those funds and programs 23 are to be transferred to other state agencies. I must 24 admit, I don't know where -- what the status is on that. 25 So, in terms of the state, I don't know what -- what your 15 1 options are. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could you go back -- 3 could you back up to the public improvement district? Are 4 you going to spend a little bit more time on -- on some of 5 these options and explain just exactly what they are and how 6 you form them? 7 MR. GERLACH: I -- we can do that, yeah, if 8 you decide you wanted to focus on that a little bit more. 9 I'm not -- I'm not an expert in those areas. I know a 10 little bit about it, which makes me dangerous. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 12 MR. GERLACH: And I don't know if you have 13 anyone on your County staff that may be more of an expert in 14 those areas, but I think that -- that's an area -- right 15 now, you don't have a public improvement district, nor do 16 you have any kind of district designation at all for that 17 area; am I correct? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MR. GERLACH: Okay. What you could do -- and 20 by defining a district, also, that becomes important in 21 terms of -- if you want to go for federal funding, is that 22 most of the federal funding -- and you could talk to, 23 certainly, the people at AACOG -- is designated in order to 24 go to low-income areas. And, I would have to do some 25 additional studies about that area of the county and how 16 1 that fits in with the overall poverty, low-income, or 2 whatever the needs are. But, if you can define a district 3 that would not only look at the arena, but also the area 4 around the arena, and use that as an economic development 5 tool, that will give you some options, perhaps, of seeking 6 some funds from H.U.D., U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 7 Development, Economic Development Administration, perhaps 8 even U.S. Department of Agriculture. Again, I don't know 9 enough about the dynamics and what the current setup is. 10 Maybe we can talk about some of that stuff today, but that's 11 something that certainly would need to be taken a look at. 12 I get funded -- I think, again, if you read 13 the material, I get funded through the Economic Development 14 Administration for the -- what they call the University 15 Center Program, and I know they have a lot of moneys for 16 public works, grants and things of that nature. Has the 17 County ever received any monies from the E.D.A.? Do you 18 know? The Economic Development Administration? 19 (Commissioners shook heads negatively.) 20 MR. GERLACH: Okay. I don't know if the City 21 has; I don't think so. The other option is developing a 22 nonprofit organization. When you had your task force, did 23 you have any kind of organizational setup and were you 24 considering a nonprofit -- it was sort of an ad hoc task 25 force? 17 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 2 MR. GERLACH: Are you considering the 3 possibility of setting up any kind of nonprofit entity to 4 operate and manage the arena, or would this be a total 5 County operation? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We don't know enough 7 about it to give an answer, I don't think. I don't know 8 enough about it to give you a good answer. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We know that others 10 have done it. We haven't looked into whether or not it 11 makes sense for to us do it. We know that others have done 12 it. 13 MR. GERLACH: Okay. Well, there is -- 14 obviously, there are certain advantages, I think. I don't 15 know, again, what all the dynamics are involved, but if you 16 do create a nonprofit, that takes this nonprofit entity -- 17 that's described over here just briefly, but it conceivably 18 would operate and manage the arena on its own and have its 19 own funding sources, and those funding sources could 20 conceivably include some County and City monies, City of 21 Kerrville money and County moneys and other sources of 22 funding, and they would be responsible also for drawing in 23 the money to maintain the operation. They could conceivably 24 keep the fees from events and all that kind of stuff; that 25 would be the sources of income. It could also, as a 18 1 nonprofit entity, be able to go out for other sources, as 2 well. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They'd be issuing 4 revenue bonds? Is that -- 5 MR. GERLACH: It depends on what -- it 6 depends on what the County decides, what kind of powers it 7 decides to give this group. As a nonprofit entity, I've 8 seen it -- a 501(c)(3) is a nonprofit group that would be 9 tax-exempt, and they would be -- their primary function 10 would not be to make a profit, but rather just to maintain 11 and operate the facility, and then you could make -- the 12 County and the nonprofit could make whatever arrangements 13 you would do about transferring the funds. For example, the 14 nonprofit could provide -- they could pay the County so much 15 per year to have the pleasure of operating a facility on 16 County lands, or this County could make an agreement to 17 provide them certain amounts of money. That's all a 18 contractual relationship that you can make up. It depends 19 primarily on whether the County wants to take on the task of 20 administering and managing the day-to-day affairs of this 21 arena or complex, if you want the call it that. Right now, 22 you're probably -- the County pretty much has full 23 administrative authority over the arena? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 25 MR. GERLACH: Okay. Okay. But that was the 19 1 idea here, is to get into different options and also give us 2 some other options in terms of funding and how they would do 3 it. And, again, sort of like -- not quite privatizing this 4 operation, but that would be also a -- another potential 5 option, by the way. You can privatize this, if you wanted 6 to do that. Another possible funding source would be public 7 and private foundations. Obviously, I think the County 8 might not be in a good position to seek out that funding, 9 but if you had a nonprofit entity, I think your chances of 10 getting support would be much greater as a 501(c)(3). And, 11 again there's a whole bunch of foundations -- don't ask me 12 for one particular one, but there are many, many foundations 13 out there, and I think we talked about maybe some here 14 locally that could -- that would find this to be a very, 15 very fine asset for the County, and that they would 16 contribute moneys to. 17 Corporate donors, again, from the business 18 community. I think the business community has a tremendous 19 stake in this. They're certainly one of the stakeholders. 20 Many of the folks that operate the camps, and certainly the 21 local hotels and resorts, could see this as a very strong 22 asset, and they might be willing to contribute to the 23 development and maybe the ongoing maintenance of this 24 operation. And then, of course the community/individual 25 donations. Now, here again, that's making the community 20 1 feel a part of this kind of endeavor and getting them 2 involved in this, as well. Many communities do this 3 already, getting individual citizens involved in this. And, 4 of course, there's the -- you want to recognize these people 5 as much as possible. But, they know that they're giving 6 something out for -- they see this as a useful asset for 7 folks in this community. 8 My own activities, in terms of who else to 9 involve with this, I've just continued -- or just finished 10 up a project over in Yoakum, which is down in DeWitt and 11 Lavaca County, and in that project we worked closely with 12 the Lower Colorado River Authority, and they've been very, 13 very useful and very helpful to that community in 14 implementing this strategic plan. I strongly encourage, if 15 you haven't already done this, that you involve the 16 L.C.R.A.; I think they can bring some assets. I don't know 17 that there are any -- what the dynamics are in the 18 relationship between the County and the City and L.C.R.A., 19 but they can be a very valuable asset, whatever you're going 20 to do, regardless of how you want to do it, and they bring 21 some really good things to the table. And, they have a 22 strong economic development effort, or components within 23 their organization. They have planning capabilities, as 24 well, so I'd strongly encourage you to explore that 25 possibility. 21 1 Another partner that you might want to take a 2 look at, of course, is the ag extension industry, and you 3 already have a facility that's located on the arena grounds. 4 Have they been involved in the process at all? They have? 5 Good. 'Cause, certainly, they'll want to -- has L.C.R.A. -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not on this project. 7 We've had other projects with L.C.R.A. 8 MR. GERLACH: There is some potential there, 9 and certainly you know how -- you already have a working 10 relationship with them. There also may be some other local 11 businesses that are really, again, contributing to this, and 12 you have a large resort facility that could come in, you 13 know, with partners. Again, the key to a -- from our point 14 of view, the key to a successful fundraising strategy is to 15 design a focused, inclusive, and open process. Should be 16 long-term. It shouldn't focus on short-term gain, because 17 what you're looking at is once you construct the facility, 18 you still have to operate it, and you're going to continue 19 to put new facilities on the grounds. 20 Also, it's suggested in this -- this package 21 that you look at the park along the river as a part of the 22 total package. You know, 'cause I think when you bring this 23 together, you multiply the assets that you can -- that the 24 arena will be able to offer by having a park. So, design- 25 wise from the -- or from a planning perspective, you may 22 1 want to link those activities together, the park development 2 as well as the arena development. It's also important to 3 keep in mind that once the exhibit center is renovated and 4 in full operation, additional funds will have to be sought 5 to maintain and continue and improve the center. Right now, 6 just a question; does the center -- does the arena receive 7 any tax moneys? Or is it all tax moneys, or do they depend 8 on their own funding? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's tax money and fees 10 they generate. 11 MR. GERLACH: So, you're going to look at 12 this. If anything, I would suspect that if you were to come 13 short of the things in your Master Plan, you're probably 14 looking at an increased cost for this, so you're going to 15 have to look at this in -- from -- certainly, from a 16 long-term perspective. This may be some of the things that 17 we can help you with, if you don't have the resources here 18 at the county level. Maybe we could offer you some help in 19 that area. Fees charged to use this will, of course, be 20 used as a source of funds. I don't know if it's a major 21 source of funds or not. And I'm assuming that fees, right 22 now, that are being charged to people that use the arena are 23 being plowed back into it. Does the County receive any 24 moneys at all from the operation? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Plus over expenses. 23 1 MR. GERLACH: Okay. Okay. So, that will 2 probably continue, regardless of whatever -- however you set 3 this thing up. The fees will be plowed back into the arena, 4 okay. But, as I say here, it's unlikely the fees alone will 5 be adequate to cover future expenses, because you're looking 6 at a lot of, certainly, construction moneys, and if you 7 assume that you raise all those moneys, you're still going 8 to have to upkeep it and you'll have to look at the 9 long-term possibility. A lot of these facilities under the 10 Master Plan will be phased in, the kind of activities that 11 will help on the fundraising bit, because you won't have to 12 raise all your monies right up front, even though maybe 13 three or four, five years down the road, you'll do other 14 kinds of activities. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Back to the other point, 16 I think the fees generated now, I believe, go into the 17 general fund. I mean, the fees that are generated from the 18 facility go into our County general fund. We just fund the 19 maintenance out of general funds. 20 MR. GERLACH: So, it's sort of plowed back 21 in. You're going to have to -- is that the plan now with 22 the new -- with the new arena? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's up on the table. 24 Everything's on the table, really, as to how we -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We've made no 24 1 decisions. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- from the final design 3 to how to pay for it to how to operate it. 4 MR. GERLACH: Okay. Well, that's why I say 5 here, you need to -- well, I'm suggesting that you have a 6 strategy, long-term, and very broad based. For as long as 7 that arena's going to be in operation, you're going to have 8 to -- obviously, you're going to have to come back and 9 revisit your strategy on a periodic basis, but that's 10 important in terms of how you approach this thing. Again, 11 that's the approach I'm suggesting -- not so much an 12 approach, but rather different suggestions and strategies 13 and things that you want to -- may want to consider. 14 I did offer, on Page 5, some next steps, near 15 term kinds of things. First, Commissioners Court partners 16 should develop a mechanism to spearhead the project over the 17 long-term. If it is decided to form an organization of some 18 kind, that organization should be a nonprofit. It should be 19 open and inclusive, have a strong public/private partnership 20 focus, and above all, be focused on the community as a 21 whole. Second, a long-term strategy or plan should be 22 developed to raise the funds and to build the center. This 23 plan should include goals, objectives, timelines, and action 24 items to achieve the above. Third, every effort should be 25 made in this county to make the project a city/county 25 1 project. Fourth, to the extent possible, this project 2 should be part of a broader strategy to enhance the 3 long-term economic development of both the City of Kerrville 4 and Kerr County. 5 And, that's where I'm coming from a lot, 6 because I think you have tremendous possibilities here. 7 Because, obviously, if you -- if you accomplish the Master 8 Plan that you have before you, this is going to bring in 9 more people to the community to not only participate in the 10 events, because you're going to have more events and 11 different kinds of events, so that means they're going to 12 obviously spend more money in the community. The taxes -- 13 you'll have more sales taxes and so forth. So, there is 14 economic development. And, you're already -- in Kerr 15 County, you already have a lot of assets in place to -- you 16 know, you're in pretty good shape economically, I think, and 17 this will be just adding to what already you have in place. 18 These are some of the short-term kinds of things that I 19 suggest that maybe you come up with. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Going back to your first 21 item under your Next Steps, you mentioned, "If it is decided 22 to form an organization of some kind." That's the -- the 23 point I'm at, is I don't know -- I mean, I know what it's 24 like to operate this as a County, 'cause we currently do 25 that, but I don't know what other avenues of operation are 26 1 out there that we can do. What is the best, I think, 2 mechanism to get -- or a person or whatever to come in and 3 explain those options and how they operate? 4 MR. GERLACH: Well, there's -- there are a 5 number of people who can come in and tell you how to set up 6 a nonprofit entity, if that's what you're looking at. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know. 8 MR. GERLACH: Or to just set up an 9 organization, we can help you in terms of that. We can 10 describe some of the things that you would have to do. We 11 could suggest some people -- for example, I'm working now 12 with a group that's called "I-35 South Economic Development 13 Coalition," and also another activity I'm working on is a 14 future region project where, you know, both of those 15 entities moved into creating 501(c)(3)'s, and we're working 16 with a gentleman out of Pleasanton who's helping us do this. 17 He's an expert in that area and he can describe essentially, 18 you know, those kinds of things that you would have to take 19 into account in putting together an application for a 20 501(c)(3), and I'm sure there are a lot of people even in 21 Kerrville that can do that; you know, certainly in the 22 county. 23 It's not a given -- it's not a done deal. 24 You have to -- there have to be certain things that you do 25 in creating, but that would be the way to go if you want to 27 1 have this -- if you want the arena and whatever else you 2 build there to be not so much a government-run operation, 3 County-run operation, but rather have it autonomous to some 4 degree so you don't have to worry about the day-to-day 5 operation of that facility. They would still report to the 6 County Commissioners and the County, but they would -- you 7 would have other people taking care of it and running the 8 day-to-day operations. So, that's why we suggest some kind 9 of organization that would be able to do that, and certainly 10 a nonprofit. Does that answer your question? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ernest, can you go 13 back on Page 4 to the role of the Center for Economic 14 Development, that paragraph at the bottom of Page 4? In 15 that, you say, "the Center is in a position to provide 16 ongoing technical and research assistance to make the 17 exhibit center a reality. In addition, we are able to 18 conduct feasibility studies, economic impact studies, and 19 market research. Our fees are designed to cover only our 20 costs." Can you elaborate on that a little bit? 21 MR. GERLACH: Yeah. This is something that 22 we've been set up to do. We do feasibility studies and 23 things of this nature to determine the impact of certain 24 kinds of facilities or businesses or projects that are 25 happening in the community. Essentially, what we can do is, 28 1 if you wanted to look at the arena as an economic 2 development growth generally, we can look at what the 3 long-term impact -- economic impact would be on the 4 community. We can -- we -- Dr. Bridges here could give you 5 a -- I think a great description of what we were talking 6 about when we came up here, which is to do basically a 7 spreadsheet and maybe even a model showing what are some of 8 the funding streams and what would be some of the local 9 impacts, county impacts and whatever. We can do that, and 10 work with you to determine what kind of impact that would 11 be, and maybe offer some recommendations for future 12 development for the arena. 13 We can also, you know, look at some of the -- 14 do an economic-based study, which would look, again, at what 15 the current impact would be on the local economy. And, that 16 would be an option. This would also be very useful if you 17 decide to go after state or federal funding, or even through 18 the foundation. Having said that, we've done these plans; 19 this is what these show. The funding entities would be more 20 conducive, or they would -- in providing their funding to 21 you to make this thing happen 'cause you've done your 22 homework. So, these are some of the things that we could do 23 on the -- working with the County. And, that's the Center 24 for Economic Development, and also the much broader entity, 25 the Institute for Economic Development. 29 1 Okay, I think that answered some of the -- we 2 can do several things. We can help you set up your 3 organization, we can do the impact studies, we can do a 4 long-term strategic plan for you, and help you put together 5 the funding strategy for you, if you decide you want to do 6 that. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You state that the -- the 8 fees cover only the costs. What type of -- I mean, to do 9 some of the feasibility work and economic impact, what kind 10 of a fee is the County looking at? Or is this just -- 11 MR. GERLACH: Okay, one thing I want to 12 stress, we're not consultants -- private sector consultants. 13 We don't compete with private sector consultants, because -- 14 mainly because we can always undersell them, because we 15 don't have to worry -- my funding comes from the E.D.A. All 16 our funding is based on accomplishment of the project, what 17 our costs are, to meet our costs. That's why we won't -- we 18 don't want to compete with consultants, so we'll put this 19 for an open bid. We won't do that, because we can always 20 undersell private sector consultants. And, so, I wanted to 21 throw this out to you, that this is where we're coming from. 22 We'll even be glad to provide you with ongoing technical 23 support at no cost, to be honest with you, like this. And, 24 if you want us to be an adviser, we don't charge you. My 25 fees come from -- my support comes from the Economic 30 1 Development Administration, so I'm all right. But, if you 2 wanted to do a specific project which would require some 3 long-term involvement, you know, six months, say, up to a 4 year, we would do a strategic plan. 5 The best way I could approach that is I would 6 like to put together a proposal for you -- for your 7 consideration which would outline a budget, because since we 8 don't have set fees, basically, we would go according to 9 what your needs are and what would be required to meet those 10 needs, and then we would have to base all of our -- the 11 amount of moneys that we would need on that -- on that 12 project. Also, we usually operate on a fixed-price 13 contract, so that's good for a community or any kind of 14 entity, because you can get a lot more out of us than you 15 would if we were just charging you on a per-hour basis. So, 16 that -- that's where we come from. And, I'll be glad to -- 17 if -- if we can walk away here today, if you're still 18 interested, what you want from us -- conceivably, you want, 19 I'll be glad to put together a proposal for you very quickly 20 and send it up to you for your consideration, and then meet 21 with you again, if you'd like to do that to go over the 22 proposal. And, the cost factor -- even those are 23 negotiable. We're easy to work with. Does that answer -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I only have one 31 1 comment. I guess it's more to the Court than it is to you, 2 Mr. Gerlach. And, I appreciate you spending -- taking the 3 time to come up. But, he brought up and used the words, 4 "this is economic development." And, if there's any project 5 or any movement in this county, I think it's -- it just -- 6 that facility toward economic development. And, he also 7 referred to a partnership with the city -- City/County, and 8 I'm -- of course, I'm heading toward the E.I.C., which is 9 partially County money anyway, in my opinion. The county 10 folks spend money in the city, just like the city folks do. 11 And, when we approached them before, if you remember -- I 12 mean, I don't know if they responded to you, but they did 13 me, and made a statement that the E.I.C. just doesn't have 14 money for that kind of thing, to help improve the facilities 15 out there, and now suddenly they do have money to take over 16 the Kerrville-Schreiner State Park. So, for some reason, 17 and I don't know what it is, it seems to me that that's -- 18 this partnership with the County and the City -- (feedback 19 from the sound system) Is somebody else hearing that? 20 Thank God. Something -- there's something wrong there, 21 because if there -- if there was ever a time that E.I.C. 22 money should go towards something, it should go toward this 23 facility. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree with 25 you, Commissioner. You're absolutely right. And, 32 1 Commissioner Letz and I made an appeal before the E.I.C. I 2 don't recall that they turned us down, but they didn't affix 3 a priority. They said, you know, get all your financial 4 ducks lined up and, in effect, come back and tell us what 5 you think specifically you'd like from us, and we'll 6 consider it. Am I recollecting correctly, Jonathan? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, I guess we have 9 to do that. We've got to line up all our little ducks here, 10 whichever ducks we're going to use, and then say to them, 11 "One of the ducks in this line is you, and it's for X number 12 of dollars, and we want your participation," 'cause it is 13 truly economic development, and the largest part of that 14 impact comes to the businesses and hotels and restaurants 15 and shops in the city of Kerrville. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just no question 18 about that. The question is how best to do that, I guess. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- Bill and I 20 visited one-on-one with most of the members of the City 21 Council, and, you know, the -- they're all interested, but 22 none of them seem excited to me. And, bottom line, when it 23 comes down, this is a County facility and they have their 24 own priorities right now. And, you know, even though they 25 certainly think it's a good idea, they're -- they think it's 33 1 a better idea if we do it a hundred percent County from a 2 financial standpoint. I think they haven't said no, they 3 don't want to participate, but -- I mean, they love the 4 idea, until we say, "Do y'all want half of this?" "Well, 5 let's look at it a little bit harder." I mean, it's kind of 6 the feedback I've had. They certainly haven't said no, and 7 I think there is a -- a chance that the City would 8 participate with us in a project like this, and I think most 9 of the councilmen have so far said, you know, "Come up with 10 a definite plan and come back," and I think we're at that 11 point right now that we're trying to look at how to fund it, 12 whether it's the County only or a joint city/county, and I 13 agree totally; I think E.I.C. should help fund this. And I 14 think we're going to -- the City hasn't said they don't want 15 this, but they just said, "Come back with a definite 16 proposal and we'll look at it." But, they've all -- all the 17 City Councilmen that I've talked to have also said, "We have 18 our priorities, as well." So, this just -- it's how it all 19 meshes. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One of the things 21 that -- in the discussions that Jonathan and I had with the 22 various City Council people, this theme kept running through 23 each of their discussions to some extent, and that was 24 they -- they were about to engage themselves in their 25 comprehensive planning process, which they're in right now, 34 1 and this, among many, many other things, could possibly be 2 discussed and perhaps evolve from the comprehensive 3 planning. I don't know whether that's the most we could 4 hope for at this point, is that it -- is that it becomes a 5 line item in their comprehensive plan, or whether we could 6 expect something bigger in terms of response. I really 7 don't know. I really don't know. But, it's not for our 8 lack of effort in trying to convince them that this is truly 9 economic development to benefit the city of Kerrville. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I would say that if you 11 followed Mr. Gerlach's suggestion and make this a 12 broad-based, transparent, comprehensive effort, that the 13 City Council may be more interested in it if you tell them 14 most of the community that haven't really been involved 15 would get involved and get behind the effort; I think the 16 City Council might find it moved up on their radar. The 17 other thing I'll say is, we're also in the situation where, 18 in the very, very near future, not this year but in the next 19 year or so, we're going to have to do some major work out 20 there. I've asked the Maintenance Department, Glenn and 21 Mike, to get some estimates on what I consider to be the 22 minimal amount of significant maintenance that has to be 23 done just to preserve the facility as it is right now, and 24 we're going to come up with some pretty good-sized dollars. 25 So, one of the issues is going to be, do we spend, you know, 35 1 in the six figures just to keep it like it is today, without 2 improving it, without enhancing it? Or do we go forward 3 with a comprehensive plan, spend more dollars and enhance 4 it? That's an issue that's going to come up pretty soon. 5 MR. BRIDGES: Ernest, can I interject? I 6 think what you've just outlined would be really important, 7 looking at what it's costing you today versus what a new 8 facility could bring into the community. And, just -- the 9 economic impact study could possibly help you with the City 10 Council and with the taxpayers. Most people understand that 11 a new facility like this, whether it's constructed or 12 whether it's a new industry moving into town, is going to 13 provide more jobs and a certain level of additional 14 spending, but a lot of people don't understand how that -- 15 how those dollars trickle down into the community, and 16 that's one thing that an economic impact study can quantify 17 and show. For example, how much additional business -- how 18 much -- how many additional employees would have to be hired 19 by, for example, the lodging industry by this new facility, 20 and an economic impact study can do that. It can put some 21 dollars and cents, instead of just sort of the term, well, 22 it's an economic development project, which it is, but the 23 economic impact study can give you some numbers and some 24 dollars which are based upon some pretty good software 25 that's on the market today, and so that might be a tool for 36 1 you to use early on to help get that additional support. 2 People can say, well, this is going to add not just the 3 amount of additional revenues at the gate that you may 4 generate, but all of these other dollars that are 5 multiplied, and create additional jobs and additional sales 6 tax dollars for the City and the County. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You folks are in a 8 position to assist us in doing that? 9 MR. BRIDGES: Yes, sir. We've got software 10 at our -- you know, in our center that, with a little bit of 11 help from some of your staff and perhaps your consultants, 12 who I -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is the staff. 14 MR. BRIDGES: Okay. The consultants that 15 talked about comparable facilities in the region can develop 16 some -- some projected revenue and some projected employment 17 figures for the facility, and basically, we take those 18 numbers and we -- we use it as input into this software, and 19 it gives us the -- the projected economic development, 20 additional employment, additional dollars in the various 21 industries here in Kerrville. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's very 23 important, because the economic impact study that 24 accompanied our Master Plan, which I shared with you, 25 Ernest, a copy of that, I think stops short of -- of that 37 1 element. And, what it talked about was, if -- and it's a 2 big -- granted, it's a big "if" -- if we were to attract all 3 these various other types of shows and businesses and 4 meetings, et cetera, to the new facility, the bottom line 5 economic impact when we're up and running full-steam would 6 be something like $19 million, but what it didn't say was 7 how many jobs that would translate into in the hotel 8 industry and the food industry and this and that and the 9 other thing. Particularly when part of the scheme of things 10 was to -- to help shore up, if you will, the utilization of 11 all of our facilities in town, hotels and so forth, in -- in 12 what they, by their definition, call the "off-season." And 13 so, I know -- I think we fell short of that; we don't have 14 that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- I agree that 16 the economic impact portion of the study we received, it 17 wasn't clear enough. Actually, I think two of the City 18 Councilmen didn't even know it was in there; they didn't 19 even see it when they read through the package, 'cause it 20 was lost in the verbiage. I think we need something that 21 jumps out, almost in a chart form, and very clear as to 22 here's the economic impact, a one-page summary. And, I 23 think we do need that, and we were looking at that 24 information. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And I'd like to go 38 1 back to the -- to your terminology, "funding strategy," 2 helping us develop the funding strategy. What you've given 3 us here is a broad outline of things that are possible, and 4 I guess that means that you're advocating being more 5 specific? 6 MR. GERLACH: In terms of the -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the question. 8 MR. GERLACH: In terms of the overall 9 funding? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Funding strategy, 11 yes. 12 MR. GERLACH: I can't really be more specific 13 unless I have more information. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I understand, but not 15 today. I don't mean today, but -- 16 MR. GERLACH: Are you asking how -- what 17 would I suggest? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is that a part of 19 what -- what we could anticipate and the level of services 20 that would come from your agencies? 21 MR. GERLACH: Oh, okay. All right. Well, 22 again, we can, you know, provide with you that information 23 that will allow you to do -- or enhance your funding 24 capability. Gary pointed out there, in terms of the 25 economic impact study, we can do a feasibility study as 39 1 well, where -- if you wanted to look at this as not so much, 2 again, as an arena only, but look at the surrounding impact 3 in the immediate area. Again, I don't know enough about 4 that area to come to any conclusion. It's pretty rural, but 5 you also have some other important assets like Schreiner 6 College up the road and the V.A. Hospital, and I don't know 7 what the long-term development plans are for that part of 8 the county. But, again, you're going to have an attractive 9 facility there that's going to serve as a magnet for other 10 kinds of development, I would think. We can look into those 11 kinds of -- what are the other possibilities. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I want to see if I 13 can refine it just a little tighter. Ernest, on Page 3, you 14 talk about at the federal level -- just an example -- U.S. 15 Department of Housing and Urban Development, U.S.D.A., and 16 Economic Development, blah, blah, blah, wide range of grants 17 and loans for economic, rural, ag, business, and community 18 development projects. So, what I'm really asking is, if you 19 were working with us, you'd be able to tell us more 20 specifically than just the generics that you put here -- you 21 could say, "Yes, there is a specific grant or there are 22 specific things that U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 23 Development does, and it fits the criteria," or "Your 24 projects fits, and here's how you go about getting it"? 25 MR. GERLACH: We would even help you put 40 1 together the proposal. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. You've 3 answered the question. 4 MR. GERLACH: Yeah, because we've done this 5 before. We've worked with nonprofits and governments in 6 helping put proposals for a particular project. And, I'm 7 sorry, I should have got that the first time around. We can 8 do that. Now, keeping in mind, also, that a lot of federal 9 programs are designated for areas that are economically 10 distressed. Kerr County, as a whole, is not an economically 11 distressed area, but there may be -- the area around the 12 facility might be economically distressed. That's not the 13 only criteria that goes into this thing; there may be other 14 criteria, as well, and that would have to be taken into 15 account. So, that's not a given in terms of federal 16 funding. Even if you decide to set this up as an economic 17 development catalyst, that doesn't insure that H.U.D. or 18 E.D.A or U.S.D.A. will channel moneys or provide the County 19 with moneys to do that. Of the 47 counties that I deal 20 with, close to 40 are economically distressed counties. 21 Only seven are not, Kerr County being one of the seven that 22 are not designated as economically distressed. So, that 23 would be a roadblock that you would have to deal with right 24 now. I don't know how you deal with that or whether that, 25 in fact, will be a factor in terms of securing federal 41 1 funding. So, I want to -- you know, just to let you 2 understand that that is not a given. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. How do we get 4 from here to there? 5 MR. GERLACH: I'm sorry? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess I'm asking my 7 colleagues, how do we get from here to someplace else down 8 the road? 9 MR. GERLACH: Now, there are areas within 10 Kerr County, even in Kerrville, which have economically 11 distressed or low-income areas, you know. There probably is 12 poverty in this county. And, you know, I don't know where 13 that is, and whether it would be in an area around the 14 arena, or the proposed arena. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There -- there are 16 probably -- in the area around Kerrville, that is probably 17 one of the more economically distressed areas. I don't know 18 if it would qualify under federal standards, but if anything 19 near the city of Kerrville is going to probably qualify, 20 that area probably would. 21 MR. GERLACH: Okay. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, it is 23 basically because of the -- it is that whole -- everything 24 out Highway 27 historically has been a -- you know, 25 economically distressed. 42 1 MR. GERLACH: We can determine that very 2 easily -- relatively easily in terms of whether that would 3 be an economic distress. You could design your impact -- a 4 larger development area, if you decide to go this route, to 5 include those areas, and then the spinoff effects would have 6 some effect on those areas. And, you could direct some of 7 your funding also to deal with -- and this may get -- I 8 don't want to muddy this thing up too much, but you could 9 also look at this as a development; you can use some other 10 moneys that you get from, say, H.U.D. to focus in on those 11 areas, as well. So, part of the overall economic 12 development strategy, which includes the arena plus the 13 other areas. That make any sense? 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To answer your question, 16 Commissioner, to me, where we need to go is a little bit 17 more in detail on developing a nonprofit-operated -- or some 18 sort of a district or economic development district or 19 something along that line, just to learn more, to see if 20 that's a viable option. And I think we need to, you know, 21 talk further with Mr. Gerlach and his group, if they can 22 help us in -- you know, whether they do a proposal or narrow 23 down exactly what we need, such as a feasibility or economic 24 feasibility study, things of that nature, and also a way to 25 look at other organizational structures that we can look at. 43 1 And then I think the -- we also -- I presume later on we're 2 going to discuss the new design plans that Mr. Blankenship 3 prepared for us and kind of get the Court to come up with a 4 -- a plan that we all agree on. I mean, we've never really 5 been able to cross that unanimously at this point. I 6 certainly think that's an important point from the community 7 standpoint, that we can show -- come up with a plan that the 8 entire Court likes. And -- and then, once we get that -- to 9 me, that should be the first step, and then get the other 10 information and, you know, try moving forward. Personally, 11 I don't think we should wait until the City's finished with 12 their long-range plan. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't either. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mainly 'cause it's going 15 to take 18 months. I don't think we have 18 months. I 16 think we really need to decide a direction during this 17 budget, because we have some big -- as the Judge said, 18 some -- a lot of dollars that have to be spent out there one 19 way or the other, and would I much prefer to do it with a 20 new building rather than try patch the old thing. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with you. 22 I'm not suggesting we wait on the City's comprehensive plan. 23 I just wanted the Court to hear that, you know, that was one 24 of the things that came out of our discussions. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. And, I also think 44 1 that we can certainly go to the City with -- you know, prior 2 to that plan. For my being on that long-range planning 3 committee, I'm not real sure where this would even come out 4 of -- out of the committee that's been divided up into 5 subcommittees. I don't even see that this is a something 6 that one of the committees would look at. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm not sure whether it falls 9 under economic development or parks and recreation, or where 10 it would fall. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I'm in 12 transportation, so I'm kind of out of the loop -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're in limbo. 14 MR. GERLACH: I have a question -- two 15 questions, as a matter of fact. First of all, in this -- 16 regarding the City's comprehensive planning, that's just for 17 the City of Kerrville, right? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 19 MR. GERLACH: But, obviously, this area is 20 within the ETJ, right? The extraterritorial jurisdiction? 21 So, is it conceivable that the City could annex this area 22 sometime in the future? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: They can't annex County 24 property, but they can annex everything around it. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have. 45 1 MR. GERLACH: Okay. But, they can't annex 2 the arena, per se? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 4 MR. GERLACH: That will be forever County 5 property. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 7 MR. GERLACH: Okay. The other question is 8 entirely unrelated. The economic development -- Kerrville 9 Economic Development Foundation, I'm not quite sure what 10 their function is in this area. Are they a player in this, 11 as well, the Economic Development Foundation? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: More in the nature of a 13 cheerleader. 14 MR. GERLACH: Okay. Do they do any -- any 15 kind of planning or any kind of economic development work? 16 They just -- the Chamber of Commerce -- primarily is part of 17 the Chamber of Commerce, okay. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think they -- I 19 think there's no question they'll be supportive, but I 20 think, as the Judge says, that they're -- as a cheerleader, 21 "I think it's a good idea, and let's get behind it," but in 22 terms of being integral, I'm not sure that they can rally 23 support for it. I know that -- 24 MR. GERLACH: Is it conceivable that 25 Schreiner College would have -- I know they have a facility 46 1 that's located close-by, but it's still some distance away 2 from the arena. Is Schreiner College a good community 3 citizen? Do they get involved in -- in activities here at 4 the City and County level? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't see them as a player 6 in this. 7 MR. GERLACH: You don't? Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have -- the need 9 they had for this type of facility they've recently met with 10 building their own structures. You know, they've built a 11 number of, I guess, rec center type buildings on their own 12 campus that has meeting capabilities that they require. 13 And, things -- some of the exhibit-type things that we would 14 just -- I think they would probably be supportive, but I 15 don't see them as being, you know, a big player, as the 16 Judge said. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't, either. 18 They have their own long-range plans, in terms of how they 19 want to grow the university to a level that they think is 20 acceptable, and it has more to do with facilities on campus 21 than it does interagency involvement. 22 MR. GERLACH: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If they ever fielded 24 an equestrian team, they might want to use it. 25 MR. GERLACH: Well, a private center. 47 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One of your items 2 you've listed here is corporate support. Would that -- 3 would you consider that corporate sponsorship; i.e., hang a 4 Coors beer sign out on the front lawn or those kinds of -- I 5 mean, do you do those kinds of things? Maybe not Kerr 6 County, but do these things happen occasionally? 7 MR. GERLACH: Of course, you also look at the 8 Hill Country as a whole, and -- but, no, what I'm talking 9 about -- there's always the naming rights, okay? And -- for 10 the arena. But, no, I'm looking at a -- what I was 11 suggesting is that there would be some recognition of 12 whatever support is provided, whether it be an individual 13 citizen or a corporation, and I think most corporations will 14 buy into that. They want to invest in their community, so 15 we have some strong corporation -- I don't know who there 16 might be here in Kerrville. I -- I just feel that they 17 would certainly want to support this effort in some way. 18 And, there would be all sorts of ways that they can 19 contribute, and one of the ways being financial. And, 20 again, the recognition factor; how would you recognize that 21 group? Because I think that's their payoff. Have you had 22 any experience with corporations in the Hill Country that 23 have given to any of your local organizations or museums or 24 things like that? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, sure. 48 1 MR. GERLACH: You have, okay. So, this could 2 be something like that. Again, they may even have -- you're 3 looking at the public/private partnership. They also might 4 want to be involved in the creation of this or the 5 redevelopment of your arena in some way. I would certainly 6 encourage you to, you know, look at that possibility. And, 7 if the corporate involvement in this -- or "business 8 involvement" is probably the way to word it. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Thank you. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Appreciate it. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: We appreciate your time and 12 your information. It has been very helpful. We'll be in 13 touch. 14 MR. GERLACH: Okay. Commissioner Williams, 15 do you want to -- in terms of any kind of follow-up, should 16 I just give you a call, or how do you want to -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes, please do, and 18 we'll put the topic back on the agenda next time to talk 19 about how we'd like to proceed. And, yes, we'll talk again. 20 MR. GERLACH: Okay. Thank you for the 21 opportunity. And, Gary, is there anything you want to -- 22 okay. Thank you for the opportunity. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much. 25 Appreciate it. 49 1 MR. GERLACH: We're going to leave now. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're adjourned. 3 (Commissioners Court workshop concluded at 3:05 p.m.) 4 5 6 7 8 STATE OF TEXAS | 9 COUNTY OF KERR | 10 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 11 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 12 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 13 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 14 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 15th day of June, 2001. 15 16 17 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 18 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 19 Certified Shorthand Reporter 20 21 22 23 24 25