1 2 3 4 5 6 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 7 Workshop 8 Monday, June 25, 2001 9 2:00 p.m. 10 County Court at Law Courtroom 11 Kerr County Courthouse 12 Kerrville, Texas 13 14 15 16 17 Rainwater Collection Incentive Program 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 On Monday, June 25, 2001, at 2:00 p.m, a workshop 2 of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in the 3 Commissioners' Courtroom and County Court at Law Courtroom, 4 Kerr County Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the following 5 proceedings were had in open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good afternoon, everyone. 8 It's 2 o'clock on Monday afternoon, June 25th, and we will 9 call to order this workshop meeting of the Kerr County 10 Commissioners Court. The topic in particular today is to 11 consider and discuss establishing water collection and 12 preservation systems, including, but not necessarily limited 13 to, a Kerr County Rainwater Collection Incentive Program, et 14 cetera. We're glad to see everyone turned out today. This 15 is an item of increased interest to all of us, and one that 16 we fully intend to pursue and investigate and incorporate 17 into our procedures, if at all feasible and possible. Any 18 members of the Court have anything they want to say before 19 we start off? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just a couple 21 comments, Judge. As we all know, simply put, this is about 22 water conservation, and if adopted, will put Kerr County, I 23 think, in the forefront of public policy. I'm encouraging 24 its citizens to take an affirmative action in this regard. 25 Just to set the record straight, this is not a tax giveaway 3 1 scheme. It does not take away any ratable from our ad 2 valorem tax base, as we currently know it. What the 3 proposal will do, if adopted, is encourage property owners 4 to purchase and install rainwater collection systems on 5 their property, and in return for their willingness to 6 participate in conservation, exempt the cost of the system 7 from ad valorem taxation each year the system is in 8 operation, provided the property owner reapplies for the 9 exemption. 10 Furthermore, it is not an effort to create 11 another bureaucracy. I've had some phone calls about that. 12 My goal is to keep the application process simple and 13 straightforward, utilizing Headwaters Underground Water 14 Conservation District and the Upper Guadalupe River 15 Authority as the point of contact agencies. Contrary to 16 what some have questioned me about in terms of intent, a 17 permitting process to do rainwater collection is not 18 contemplated, proposed, or required. All the property owner 19 has to do is have the desire and the financial resources to 20 make it happen. There are many other forms of water 21 conservation that, likewise, deserve to be included in this 22 initiative. If so, they should be included, if not now, 23 certainly at a later date or at as early a date as possible. 24 To get it started, undoubtedly, there are many persons in 25 Kerr County who are knowledgeable about rainwater 4 1 harvesting. The persons that I know best are Raul and Sandy 2 Pená, who live high atop a hill in east Kerr County. I've 3 asked the Penás to lead off today's workshop with a short 4 video presentation and any comments on the topic they wish 5 to present, and then we'll open it up, I guess. Raul? 6 Sandy? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Before we get started, 8 Sandy -- excuse me, Commissioner -- I'm thrilled by the 9 turnout. We may wish to adjourn, either down to the County 10 Court at Law or upstairs to one of the district courts. 11 What is the feelings of the Commissioners? 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Whatever accommodates 13 people best. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: County Court at Law is, of 15 course, just more convenient. It's not necessarily much 16 bigger. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can get a few more 18 in there, probably. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thea's checking on that right 20 now. 21 MR. SIEMERS: There's a dozen people out in 22 the hall. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, I understand, Paul. 24 That's why we're talking about this. So, we'll just -- I 25 hate to break the flow, but I want to accommodate as many 5 1 people as possible. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Everyone, we're going 4 to relocate to the next courtroom to the right. 5 (Commissioners Court workshop moved to the County Court at Law courtroom.) 6 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Has everyone found a home 8 now? People? Okay, thank y'all. We appreciate the -- the 9 efficient relocation. I think this will work a lot better, 10 and it appears that everyone is in out of the hall. So, 11 without any further ado, I believe Sandy was about to kick 12 off her presentation on rainwater collection. So, Sandy 13 Pená. 14 MS. PENÁ: Thank you. We'd like to thank 15 Commissioner Williams for inviting us to participate today 16 in this rainwater harvesting workshop. It's a subject that 17 we're very passionate about, and in fact we've made 17 18 presentations on rainwater harvesting over the past two 19 years to various community groups around Kerr County, and we 20 can certainly testify to the fact that there's a great deal 21 of interest in this subject. I'd also like to point out at 22 this time that the -- that the Riverside Nature Center 23 already -- hang on -- already has a rainwater collection 24 system, and one is planned for the Performing Arts Center 25 that will be coming up soon, and I understand that Lowe's 6 1 and also the planned Catholic high school are both 2 considering rainwater collection systems. So, it's 3 something that's being looked at not only at an individual 4 residence level, but also on a commercial level. 5 Collecting rainwater is, of course, not a new 6 idea. People have been doing it for thousands of years. 7 But what is new is the modern technology of storage tanks 8 and filters and pumps and other accessories that will 9 produce a pure, safe, reliable source of water. This 10 technology is also economical, especially when compared to 11 the high cost of drilling a well. And, if you only plan to 12 use your water for irrigation purposes, the cost is even 13 lower. Although it may seem at times that we don't get 14 enough rain in Kerr County to bother collecting, in fact, 15 Kerr County, over the past 50 years, has averaged 32 inches 16 of rain a year, which is more than enough for a domestic 17 rainwater collection system. And, for every 1 inch of rain, 18 you can collect 600 gallons of water on a roof surface of 19 1,000 square feet. So, for example, a 3,000-square-foot 20 house will collect nearly 60,000 gallons of water in a given 21 year. We have been completely reliant on our rainwater 22 collection system for the past three years. We currently 23 have 6,500 gallons of storage capacity, and we are in the 24 process of building a new home, and we will be adding an 25 additional 12,000 gallons of capacity. 7 1 We also practice rainwater -- well, water 2 conservation techniques, which helps to make our rainwater 3 go even farther. And, if you don't plan to use rainwater 4 for drinking purposes, then just putting in a collection 5 system for irrigating your lawn or watering your garden also 6 helps to reduce the demand on the river and the aquifer. 7 Thus, I consider rainwater harvesting to be a -- a very 8 effective water conservation strategy, and I believe it 9 offers a real alternative or supplemental resource for 10 addressing both our present and our future water needs here 11 in Kerr County. We're really excited that Commissioners 12 Court is considering tax incentives to encourage local 13 rainwater collection efforts, and we hope that the City of 14 Kerrville and U.G.R.A. and Headwaters will follow suit and 15 offer similar programs. 16 And, now we'd like to show you just 10 17 minutes of a rainwater collection video we have that will 18 give you an overview about this process, unless the 19 Commissioners have any questions before the video? Okay. 20 Take it away. 21 (Video was shown, stopped after 10 minutes.) 22 MR. PENÁ: The rest of the video goes into 23 the specifics of how to put a system together. If anybody 24 is interested, later we can show that at any time. We've 25 shown it a number of times, but it tells you a little bit 8 1 about the tanks, the piping, and the type of surface areas 2 and the amount of water that you get for the rainwater. So, 3 I think this part we'll just open up for questions, or turn 4 it back over to Bill. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 6 questions of Raul or Sandy as to practicality or the actual 7 use of such a system? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the cost, like, 9 per 1,000 square foot of roof? I mean, for the storage 10 or -- 11 MR. PENÁ: What is what? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The cost of the 13 collection system, installing one. 14 MR. PENÁ: Depends what kind of tanks you 15 get. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Raul, I think I'm going to 17 ask you to stand up so everyone can hear you. 18 MR. PENÁ: The largest cost of the rainwater 19 collection system is the -- the storage tanks. The -- the 20 ones that they talk about primarily in this video are 21 fiberglass tanks. They're probably more expensive than the 22 polyethylene tanks that are now available. They have about 23 the same life span of about 30 years. We've -- the 3,000- 24 gallon tanks that we're going to install each cost about 25 $800 apiece. So, for 12,000 gallons, what would we pay? 9 1 $2,400? 2 MS. PENÁ: With the pump and everything, 3 probably be $4,000. 4 MR. PENÁ: The pump is the same type of pump 5 you use in a well. And, filters and filter cartridges are 6 the kind you can buy at Sears; they're the 5 micron filters. 7 Our -- our system cost about $3,000 to install for 8 6,500 gallons. It will be another $2,400 for the additional 9 storage capacity that we're going to put in, but we're also 10 going to have another pump, so that will be another $500 or 11 $600. But, compare that to the cost of, if you do it 12 yourself, to drilling a well for $15,000; it's pretty 13 economical. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, ma'am? Right here. 15 AUDIENCE: So, do you have actually a rain 16 barn? 17 MR. PENÁ: No, we're actually collecting off 18 of our house. We have a metal roof on the house. Because 19 that would definitely -- 20 AUDIENCE: If you were going to create a rain 21 barn, then the price -- 22 MR. PENÁ: Oh, yeah. If you're going to 23 build a barn, of course, you have to add the price of the 24 barn. But, almost any house has surface area that you can 25 collect water off of. 10 1 AUDIENCE: As long as it's not -- 2 AUDIENCE: Is metal the best surface? 3 MS. PENÁ: Yes, it is. 4 MR. PENÁ: Actually, metal is probably the 5 best surface. You want to be careful of any kind of a roof 6 that has a paint or pigment in it that might have lead as a 7 base in it. 8 AUDIENCE: That would have to be an old home, 9 wouldn't it? They don't use lead any more. 10 MR. PENÁ: No. Perhaps some of the pigments 11 they use on this aluminum-tinted stuff might contain 12 something. You just have to look into it. I'm not sure 13 what the analysis of that is, but the tin that they use for 14 a tin roof is exactly the same galvanizing process they use 15 in pipes that they've been using for delivering water to 16 houses for years, so there's no -- nothing different in that 17 technology. It provides good water. Anything else that you 18 use might be okay. It might require special filtration, if 19 you have something that comes off of your roof that you 20 think -- use carbon filters of some type. 21 MS. PENÁ: If you're going to drink it. 22 MR. PENÁ: If you use it for irrigation, any 23 roof will do. Any other questions? 24 AUDIENCE: What's the source of your video? 25 MR. PENÁ: We bought it. John Dromgoole has 11 1 a nursery right outside of Austin, and we bought it there. 2 The first one we bought at the Ladybird Wildlife -- 3 MS. PENÁ: Wildflower. 4 MR. PENÁ: -- Wildflower Center, yeah. 5 And -- 6 MS. PENÁ: In Austin. 7 MR. PENÁ: In fact, there's a company that 8 has another video that we don't have called "Tank Town." 9 They're located in Dripping Springs, and they also have a 10 publication called Rainwater Harvesting for the Mechanically 11 Challenged. It has -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's me. 13 MR. PENÁ: -- everything you need to know 14 about putting in a system. Any other questions? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? Yes, 16 sir? 17 AUDIENCE: I'm not the smartest man in the 18 world. Have you looked downstream to see what this is going 19 to do to the community when this water does not go to the 20 aquifer? We're not going to -- we're not getting any more 21 water. We got a finite amount. 22 MR. PENÁ: Yeah, but the amount of roof 23 surface area that you're looking at is really small compared 24 to the entire rest of your yard, so it's a very, very small 25 percentage of the water. 12 1 AUDIENCE: Unless everybody goes to 2 collection systems. 3 MR. PENÁ: If everybody in Kerr County went 4 to collecting rainwater, there would still be plenty of 5 water for the aquifer, because they -- it's only a very 6 small percentage of the surface. 7 AUDIENCE: That would be an improvement, 8 'cause we don't have plenty now. 9 MR. PENÁ: But you'd save all of it. Most of 10 the water that hits the ground goes out to the gulf. If you 11 save it here, it will stay here. 12 AUDIENCE: We've got people downstream 13 counting on it. 14 MR. PENÁ: To partly answer his question, 15 it's -- our aquifer is supplied from an area away from here. 16 The Edwards Aquifer is different than that, but our aquifer 17 here is supplied from an area away from here. 18 AUDIENCE: So if everybody does it -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Another question? Yes, sir? 20 AUDIENCE: I've got a comment to make. 21 Essentially, regardless of whether it's collected off the 22 roof or falls on the ground, it eventually goes back to the 23 ground, which goes into the aquifer. It's a moot point. 24 MR. PENÁ: Yeah, the water that you use -- 25 that you collect goes into the ground anyway, so essentially 13 1 it -- 2 AUDIENCE: California had a water problem. 3 They conserved about 20 percent of their, you know, prior 4 year's usage, and the shock that nobody planned on was the 5 rate of water to the individual went up because they were 6 producing so little of it. 7 MR. PENÁ: Well, if you collect your own, you 8 don't have any water bills. 9 AUDIENCE: I know, but poor people in town 10 will hate you. 11 MS. PENÁ: No. 12 AUDIENCE: Can these systems be set up with a 13 tap so that a rural fire department could draw water off the 14 system rapidly to fight a fire? 15 MR. PENÁ: Yeah. In fact, they do that in 16 Hays County. They use it as a backup system. They have 17 pumps; you can just open the top and stick a hose down 18 there, or with a pump, and come right out at the top of the 19 thing. 20 AUDIENCE: My rainwater collection system 21 over in Pecan Valley -- I'm one of the volunteer firemen out 22 there. We -- it's real easy, in a polyethylene tank, to 23 stick another valve in down at the bottom, and for about $30 24 you can buy a little brass fitting that's pipe thread on one 25 side and fire thread on the other side. And U.S.A.A., my 14 1 insurance company, gives me a significant discount on my 2 fire protection every year because of the fact that we can 3 hook up a fire truck direct to it and pump directly right 4 out of it. 5 MR. PENÁ: That's a good point. 6 AUDIENCE: I've got 37,000 -- 7 MR. WIEDENFELD: Are sediment buildups a 8 problem? 9 MR. PENÁ: No. Usually most systems have 10 what they call a roof -- a wash. Every -- you discard -- 11 there's a formula, one gallon of water per hundred square 12 feet of surface area that you simply discard before even 13 going into your tank. And, the way most of them are done is 14 there's a stand pipe, and the water goes in and heavy 15 sediment falls into there. Then the overflow goes into your 16 tank. Additionally, there are large-capacity filters that 17 you can put on there that even remove the pollens, and so 18 the other thing you can do is put a circulating pump with a 19 little filter on it circulating in your tank, and that takes 20 out all of the air -- the sediment in the water. 21 AUDIENCE: This is a little different, but 22 the windmills -- the electricity, you can drive that on the 23 grid, and a lot of states are allowing you to sell 24 regenerated surplus back. 25 MR. PENÁ: Right. 15 1 AUDIENCE: Can you do that with water? 2 MS. PENÁ: I don't think so. 3 MR. PENÁ: No, this is a -- unless you have a 4 large system, about all you can collect is enough to 5 maintain yourself. 6 AUDIENCE: Six, 7,000 square feet? 7 MR. PENÁ: Well maybe. Maybe. 8 AUDIENCE: Do you have to cover those tanks? 9 MR. PENÁ: Yes -- well, you don't have to. 10 People have lived for years with uncovered tanks, but if 11 it's exposed to the air, you have a possibility of 12 mosquitoes growing in there. If the sun hits it, you have 13 algae growth, so the covered tanks with screens on the 14 inlets and on the outlets keep the insects out, and also 15 eliminates the bacteria -- the algae growth in the water. 16 And, most of the tanks are dark. They don't allow light to 17 go in, so that eliminates basically algae growth in the 18 tank. 19 AUDIENCE: The ones that are black -- I have 20 a water system and they're in black tanks, so is it okay if 21 the sun hits that? I've been thinking I need to shade 22 those. 23 MR. PENÁ: They'd probably last longer. They 24 say the lifespan of those tanks are about 30 years, but they 25 certainly would last longer if you protect them from the 16 1 elements. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Question over here. 3 AUDIENCE: The polyethylene tanks, can they 4 be buried or -- or put above ground? 5 MR. PENÁ: No, if you're going to bury a 6 tank, you have to get a tank that's designed to withstand 7 the -- the hydrostatic pressure of the dirt. If you're 8 going to bury it, you probably want to dig a hole and put a 9 rock and then just stick it in there. Now, they make 10 horizontal tanks that don't have a very high profile. You 11 can make a shallow trench and put a -- a deck or something 12 over it, so that if you're worried about aesthetics, you can 13 certainly hide these things. You can -- they don't have to 14 be next to your house. They can be 100 yards away or 200 15 yards away, and just pipe the water back into your house. 16 So -- 17 AUDIENCE: A lot of times you think of a 18 cistern as an out-in-the-country type of situation, because 19 obviously, if you're in a neighborhood, you've got houses 20 that are, you know, 10 feet apart from each other. 21 MR. PENÁ: Yeah. 22 AUDIENCE: It's real simple to bury a tank 23 underneath a driveway. 24 MR. PENÁ: Right. 25 AUDIENCE: And very cost-effective to do 17 1 that. So -- and you could pick up, just an average 2 driveway, at least 4,000 gallons. 3 MR. PENÁ: Right. 4 AUDIENCE: Just off of an ordinary driveway, 5 two-car garage situation. 6 MR. PENÁ: Yeah. 7 AUDIENCE: Not when you have to hire a rock 8 digger to dig you a hole at so much an hour. 9 MR. PENÁ: Yeah, that's right. Well, 10 everything involves some cost. If you're very ambitious, by 11 far, the cheapest way to go is a barrel cement tank. 12 They're low -- about this tall, have a large footprint, but 13 a very good way of -- cost-effective way of storing water. 14 The big disadvantage is once you decide that's where you 15 want the tank, you can't move it. So -- 16 AUDIENCE: What was the term? 17 MR. PENÁ: Barrel cement. It's basically a 18 metal lath with reinforcing bars in there, and it's covered 19 with a plaster material. 20 AUDIENCE: Oh, interesting. 21 MR. PENÁ: Kind of like a swimming pool above 22 ground. 23 AUDIENCE: You can make boats out of that 24 stuff, too. Yachts. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thanks, Raul. Appreciate it. 18 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, there are -- 2 there are some mechanics about the proposal that probably 3 need to be addressed. We were talking about utilizing, as 4 point-of-contact agencies, both Headwaters Underground Water 5 Conservation District and the Upper Guadalupe River 6 Authority as places to whom people could go and acquire an 7 application, and I think it would be good if we could hear 8 from either Headwaters and/or U.G.R.A. about their thoughts 9 on this, and whether or not they're willing to assist the 10 County in making this come about. Also, I invited today 11 Mr. Coates from Kerr County Appraisal District to talk about 12 how -- what the mechanics are involved with respect to 13 acquiring an exception to ad valorem taxes based on the 14 amount of money a person invests in a rainwater system. 15 But, I think it might be important if we addressed those 16 three things at this point. Why don't we start with 17 Mr. Brown, since he's in my eyesight right here? 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Before you get to that, 19 could you explain what the proposal is? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So we're at least on the 22 same page as to what's on the table? 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The proposal 24 essentially was -- program highlights, it would be a 25 reimbursement of -- of any fees that were paid. Now, that's 19 1 a question think I think we have to address, as to whether 2 there would be any up front fees. That was a question I was 3 asked, but -- and I don't know the answer yet, and that it 4 would be a property tax reduction. We'll try to work that 5 out. Again, this is modeled after the one that was proposed 6 and adopted by Hays County. Hays County is the only other 7 county, to my knowledge, in the state of Texas thus far that 8 has done that. And, their -- their court order allows for 9 property tax reduction, the taxable value of the rainwater 10 collection system. In the case -- if you're adding it to 11 your property, it would not be included for taxation. 12 The criteria for qualification essentially 13 would be Kerr County application being approved, either 14 through the agencies of U.G.R.A. or Headwaters, minimum 15 storage capacity of 2,500 gallons, annual application and 16 approval for tax exemption or exception, which is required 17 by state law, to be submitted through Kerr County to 18 K.C.A.D. The system would have to be sunlight-restrictive, 19 and it's designed to help prevent algae growth. 20 Insect-proofing would be required. Those are kind of the 21 basics of it. 22 And, we had also talked about, in the 23 original proposal, the potential of a linked deposit system 24 in Kerr County, if we would see fit to do this, and -- and 25 the Commissioners have to talk about this. We have not 20 1 talked about it as to whether or not we wish to do this, but 2 a linked deposit system also is in the Hays County proposal, 3 and it enables a homeowner or property owner who wishes to 4 finance his -- his or her rainwater harvesting system to 5 seek financing from a local banking institution for the 6 amount necessary for this, and as a quid pro quo for a 7 reduced interest rate, the proposal would -- would call for 8 Kerr County to put a certificate of deposit on file at a 9 particular bank to help the bank offset the lost interest in 10 this particular program. Kerr County doesn't lose anything 11 in that process. We still gain interest, but maybe at a 12 little lesser rate than we would have ordinarily on a 13 certificate of deposit. So, those are the kind of things we 14 talked about in the initial proposal. And, it might be 15 helpful to have some thoughts from U.G.R.A., Headwaters, and 16 the Kerr Central Appraisal District. Mr. Brown? 17 MR. BROWN: Well, U.G.R.A. obviously is going 18 to support anything that will help supplement our water 19 needs around here. I certainly -- I cannot speak for the 20 board. I can't -- obviously, I'm not going to commit them. 21 But, I think -- you know, I think we'd be interested in 22 being a part of the distribution of educational material, as 23 far as being a place where someone could go and make an 24 application. I'm sure that -- that we'd welcome that 25 opportunity to participate. Other than -- than that, I 21 1 really can't speak to the policy side of the issue, because 2 we've not discussed it yet at U.G.R.A., but U.G.R.A.'s 3 always going to be in support of anything that will help 4 supplement our water needs. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mr. Cornett? 6 MR. CORNETT: I believe I can say ditto for 7 Headwaters. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, we've got two 9 agencies willing to participate. Commissioner Letz raised a 10 question that -- when we brought this up about a month ago, 11 having to do with how this value -- how we establish the 12 value and how it may not be added to your appraised value of 13 your property, and I asked Mr. Coates to come today. Are 14 you here, Mr. Coates? 15 MR. COATES: Yes. From what I understand, 16 it's going to be an exemption on the cost of the 17 construction of the system; not a flat exemption as you 18 have, like, on your homestead? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 20 MR. COATES: So, basically, the Court would 21 pass a resolution to grant this exemption to this property, 22 and then we would carry through with your request. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The question I had, 24 Fourth, was that right now I wasn't aware that you all 25 appraise individual wells and other systems like that. It's 22 1 just part of the -- I mean, whenever they come out, looks 2 like they measure the house and then they leave. I just had 3 one of your appraisers come out to our property, and they 4 don't know, to my knowledge, where I get my water. They 5 just measured every building. Is there going to be a change 6 in how property is appraised in the county? 7 MR. COATES: Typically, our schedules are 8 built here in Kerr County with the assumption that the house 9 will have water and sewage. So, its kind of built into the 10 cost of the house. Typically, we don't actually pick these 11 systems up. There's not a whole lot of them out there in 12 the county, for one thing. We probably would not change our 13 whole operation, you know, just in order to start picking 14 these systems up. So, I guess you've kind of got a 15 Catch-22, in a way. We actually haven't been picking them 16 up. Of course, if we ever did change and decide to, then 17 you'd be protected, but as far as the tax advantages, they 18 are not going to be real great. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There is -- but there 20 is a case, for example, where if you built a rain collection 21 barn, a visible structure -- 22 MR. COATES: That's true. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- or above-ground 24 tanks that become part of the -- of the scene, those would 25 be added, and in this case, they would be exempt. 23 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I disagree; I don't 2 think they are. I don't think that they go out there and 3 measure the water tanks that you have on any property right 4 now. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If you put up a 6 collection system that's got three 3,000-gallon tanks -- 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right, or a barn. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- together and some 9 kind of cover over it, I have a suspicion that you'd be 10 picked up. 11 MR. COATES: Definitely. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the -- we may 14 even get into that point, but I think you're looking at how 15 they're doing the appraisal, and I don't think they're 16 picking those things up right now. Because, like, right now 17 you don't value a Trinity well at a higher value than a 18 hundred foot well, so -- I mean, and that's the same type -- 19 I'm really -- I'm in favor of doing it, but I want to make 20 sure that it's real dollars that people are getting the 21 credit for. I don't want to say we'll give you an 22 exemption, and then have it kind of be a ghost that no 23 one -- you can't really get it, because it's never even 24 added into the value. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not an exemption, the 24 1 way I understand it. Anything that's added on -- what I'm 2 hearing Mr. Coates say is that if we put the program in, and 3 let's say Raul and Sandy come and they have verified $15,000 4 worth of rainwater collection construction costs, that 5 amount is going to be deducted from their appraisal, 6 regardless of whether or not the appraisal reflects the 7 existence of a system. Is that what you were saying? 8 MR. COATES: As far as the amount of the 9 value deducted, our schedules are built basically on market 10 sales. So, when a typical buyer is looking at a home to 11 buy, he's going to look at basically a house having a septic 12 and water, so it's kind of difficult to break out whether 13 this water is coming from a Trinity well or from another 14 source, you know. Possibly, if it was only a rainwater 15 collection system -- and I'm just, you know, using kind of 16 my experience here -- you possibly might have a structure 17 that might be worth a little bit less, if that was the only 18 source of water, you know. Some people are a little 19 squeamish about having a permanent source of water. But, as 20 far as, like, the gentleman here on the end was talking 21 about the structure; actually, if there was actually a 22 structure built, like a shed or something to collect it, I 23 could see -- we do pick those up. As far as water well, 24 pumps, and things like that, they're kind of included in a 25 home as part of the -- part of the overall value. 25 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I guess I'm confused here, 3 because I wasn't of the opinion that what we were suggesting 4 was that the appraised value would be reduced only if it was 5 increased. You know, I was of the impression that what we 6 would be requesting is that if someone proved up a rainwater 7 collection system, under our guidelines, then that dollar 8 figure would be deducted from the appraised value for 9 purposes of county taxation. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, what I'm saying, 11 though, if we take that approach, I think we're opening the 12 Appraisal District up to everyone who has a different than 13 normal system to want a reduction in value in their -- and, 14 I mean, just because they're -- you're setting out a 15 situation where the Appraisal District is determining 16 classifying utilities, essentially. And, I think it's a 17 different thing, because I know people that don't have wells 18 or -- you know, a lot of ranches use creek water. Well, 19 technically, right now they're getting -- I mean, it's all 20 one big picture, but if the people are getting reduced for 21 this and a reduction for that, they should get a reduction, 22 too. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, that may be something 24 we need to look at. But, the point is, people are -- are 25 taking an affirmative action to create a system which saves 26 1 water, and they're bringing in the cost of that system and 2 they're saying, "Because we've taken action which benefits 3 the whole community, in the sense of preserving water, then 4 are you going to grant us a tax incentive, a tax advantage 5 for having done that?" We're not -- you know, there's 6 nothing says we can't do it on all the other systems that 7 are out there if we want to, and it would -- this would not 8 open it up to the other systems, because this would be a 9 very carefully defined tax incentive program. In order to 10 get the tax incentive, you have to do the following things, 11 and they have to be new and you have to verify the expenses. 12 There's not a blanket thing where anybody who has a system 13 that's different than turn on the tap and draw out of a well 14 or out of a central system gets an advantage. Each -- each 15 specific program would have to have a separate specific tax 16 incentive attached to it, if that's what we decided to do, 17 which would have to come through the Court. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, I think the -- from 19 a precedent standpoint, if we do an incentive here, we have 20 to do it for all others. You can't vote for this industry 21 and not another industry. I guess my question is, I would 22 rather do a -- a fixed amount. I mean, get an average 23 amount, and let's say give $100 exemption or something like 24 that. If you have a system and it meets the qualifications, 25 you get a flat $100, rather than try to get the Appraisal 27 1 District involved. I think that's a very difficult way to 2 do it, because it's very difficult to figure out what value 3 they're putting on these systems. And, we're trying to 4 encourage it, and it would be much easier to build on in the 5 future if you just give a flat amount of deduction -- or 6 exemption, rather, for a certain kind of -- you know. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's another way to do it. 8 If you bring in the -- you show that you've met the certain 9 criteria which are outlined -- for instance, 2,500 gallons, 10 new construction, the algae protection, filters -- then you 11 get $200, $250 off of your tax bill. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, that's a lot 13 simpler. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's another way to do it. 15 But I think the issue is, the incentive program is not based 16 on the value of the property. It's based on the 17 conservation measure, the conservation program. Whether or 18 not that adds to the value of the property really is 19 irrelevant to the tax incentive. The tax incentive is based 20 on the conservation program, and not any added value. As 21 Fourth points out, some buyer who wants to buy a house that 22 doesn't have a conventional system may be willing to pay 23 less for it than -- than if they had a conventional system. 24 So, it wouldn't be based on the tax value, but what we're 25 looking at -- and you can do it based on cost of 28 1 construction and lower the appraisal, or you can do it on a 2 flat exemption, like a homestead exemption. We're talking 3 about an incentive based on the program, and not any impact 4 upon the valuation of the property, per se. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, I don't think 6 we should make -- I don't think we should make too much of 7 the tax exemption as the driver in this program. I think 8 you can talk to the people who have installed systems. You 9 can see the testimony that's given on the video, that people 10 install the systems for a number of reasons. One is 11 conservation. One is the quality of water. And, if they're 12 not convinced on that level, another $100 or $250 out of a 13 $3,000 to $12,000 investment is not going to make -- is not 14 going to make the difference on whether they do it or not. 15 I think this is a good sideline. It's a good way of saying, 16 "Hey, we're going to give you some kind of tax break," but 17 that's not going to be a lot of tax money. It's not going 18 to be a big savings to the people that install the system. 19 I think the main thing to look at is -- is there -- is can 20 we publicize and educate the public that this is available, 21 that it's affordable at -- at these kinds of levels. 22 Certainly, that if you meet this requirement, you're going 23 to get an "atta boy" somewhere; you're going to get a 24 hundred bucks off your tax bill or something, but that tax 25 exemption or reduction is not going to sell the program on 29 1 its own. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just as a matter of 3 clarification, I believe that the Hays County model -- maybe 4 if Raul and Sandy know differently, they'll correct me, but 5 I believe the Hays County model assumes that -- that their 6 appraisal district would automatically pick up improvements 7 to the property, and therefore they were exempting or 8 excepting the value of the system to prevent it from being 9 added to the appraised value. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, here's the reason 11 I think that might be a good thing to do. If I install a 12 system and I spend $10,000 on it, and I've gone down and 13 I've gotten my paperwork processed through the Appraisal 14 District and they know that that's not to be taxed, and my 15 next year's tax valuation is up $10,000, I'm going to go 16 down there with my piece of paper in hand and say, "Look, 17 you added $10,000 for something. What did you add it for?" 18 "Well, because you got this barn out there and you got those 19 tanks that you got fancied up." I'm going to say, "Huh-uh, 20 because the deal is that that's not supposed to be taxed." 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe that's the 22 model they're using. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I think this is 24 the incentive for that, and it's not to save a lot of tax 25 money. I'm probably putting this on a house that's several 30 1 times $10,000, so it's not going to be a big tax savings. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, installing -- 3 AUDIENCE: Let me just state my point of view 4 on something like this. I pay Aqua Source $24 a month, and 5 I look at, Hey, what would this system cost? $10,000? 6 $15,000? I try to relate, at $24 a month, how far would I 7 have to go before I got a return on my investment against 8 that $10,000? Typically -- well, the business I was in, we 9 looked for about a 50-month return. If we couldn't get our 10 money back in 50 months, that wasn't a good business option. 11 I know there is more to this than business, but hey, money 12 is important to some of us that are retired, and we don't 13 want to, you know, spend big sums of money just to support 14 something. We need some help, too. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm sorry, Commissioner. Go 16 ahead. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My question is -- and 18 I just want to make it -- try to get it clear in my own 19 mind. You install the program, and then Fourth comes along 20 next year and evaluates your property, and it increases by 21 $500 because of all this fancy stuff out there. Then that 22 is deducted by that value, whatever it increased your 23 property? Is that the -- and the word "reimbursement" is 24 here. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We have to fine-tune 31 1 that, but I think -- like I said, I think the Hays County 2 model -- in fact, I know the Hays County model envisions an 3 application in which you set out you're going to put in a 4 system, "X" number -- whatever size, and say it costs 5 $5,000, and you prove that out and you install it and it's 6 inspected, verified that you have done that. That $5,000 7 investment that you just made, if I understand the Hays 8 County proposal, will not be added to your property 9 appraisal the next time they do property appraisals. So, if 10 your property is valued at $100,000, the next time you get a 11 bill, it won't be valued at $105,000. It will continue to 12 be valued at $100,000. Case in point. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can probably go 14 along with something like that. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, with the $100 16 maximum, you really are valuing -- 'cause, I mean, our tax 17 basically, it's the -- we're going to exempt it, the first 18 $44,000, roughly, or less than that. $3,700 is going to be 19 exempted. Everything above that is not, 'cause you say it's 20 a maximum of $100. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, that $100 for 22 reimbursement for fees, I think we need to think about how 23 that might vanish, because nobody has talked about a fee 24 structure up front in terms of application. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's for the fee? 32 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's for the fees. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So I think, you know, 4 if -- if Headwaters is willing and U.G.R.A. is willing to 5 take on the added responsibility of accepting applications 6 for those who wish to do this, I would hope they would do it 7 without cost. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill, that's my next 9 question. Tell me why you want Headwaters or U.G.R.A. to -- 10 why does there -- why is there a need for an application? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, there has to be 12 some -- some documentation that, one, you have determined 13 you want to add a system to your property, and that there's 14 certain criteria that you're going to meet. It's going to 15 be a minimum number of $2,500, and that you're going to 16 actually do that and put it into play and have it inspected 17 and verified that it is a working system. I -- I thought 18 about U.G.R.A. and Headwaters as being the point-of-contact 19 agencies because, one, we don't have the facilities for 20 those applications here, and those two agencies are related 21 to water and people can normally relate to them in terms of 22 water, and that would be, I thought, a pretty natural place 23 to go to make an application. And, the application only is 24 going to say, very simply, I'm applying to do this and I'm 25 putting in a system of "X" number of gallons, and its 33 1 cost -- I can verify the cost being "X" number of dollars, 2 and when I've got it completed I'll let you know, and you go 3 out and inspect it and verify it, and that then qualifies me 4 to have that investment not added to my property appraisal 5 next time around. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But you're still going 7 to have to -- someone has to go out there and -- the 8 proving-up part of it. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, somebody has to 10 go prove it up. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That we can't do for 12 nothing, I don't think. I don't think. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why can't -- why 14 doesn't -- I don't understand why we do it -- why we just 15 don't do it like we do with ag and homestead and everything 16 else; let the Appraisal District do it. You go to them to 17 get the application, they go and inspect it, 'cause they go 18 out to the property every couple years; they have to check 19 the value anyway. You're already doing it. They're the 20 ones that have to determine the value. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That may be a better 22 way. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I mean, they're the 24 ones -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I can be talked into 34 1 it. If that's a better way to go, that's a better way to 2 go. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you like that idea? 4 MR. COATES: I'm the new guy here. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not for long. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: David? 7 AUDIENCE: In terms of inspection or proving 8 up the system, maybe a person who holds a certified 9 irrigation license could -- could do that, could -- for a 10 fee. And, that way, it would avoid a person who's having to 11 work for one of the tax-supported entities. They could do 12 that for some sort of fee, maybe some sort of reimbursement. 13 That individual might be qualified. I'm not sure. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Fourth? 15 MR. COATES: I'd like to check with Hays 16 County and see how they're handling it. If there's already 17 a -- you know, one in place, I've always found that you can 18 follow by example. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 20 MR. COATES: Or improve on their example. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd appreciate it if 22 you would. 23 MR. COATES: I'd like to check into that. 24 AUDIENCE: Question. I'm thinking of two 25 different kinds of systems -- correct me if I'm wrong -- one 35 1 in which you would have your drinking water and all of your 2 household water available. The other is one that we have 3 done; just four large containers with a pump that we use for 4 our yard and plants purposes, grass, yard. Now, are we 5 talking about -- does that -- is that included in what we're 6 talking about, or is that just superfluous to the other -- 7 that didn't cost a whole lot to do, but it did cost 8 something. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're talking about 10 every system, irrigation or domestic. 11 AUDIENCE: You were saying minimum gallons, 12 too. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Minimum gallons is 14 2,500. 15 AUDIENCE: We have 3,600. We've got two 16 1,000-gallon tanks and two 800-gallon tanks. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You're well above 18 that. 19 AUDIENCE: But that's just for outdoor use. 20 It's not all this other -- you know, everything that makes 21 the water -- purifies the water to drink, filtered and all 22 that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The proposal that 24 we're advancing and talking about would envision either one. 25 AUDIENCE: Okay. 36 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Domestic, treated for 2 domestic purposes, or irrigation. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There are essentially 4 three criteria: Minimum storage capacity 2,500 gallons, 5 sunlight restrictive design to prevent algae growth, and 6 insect-proof. 7 AUDIENCE: Okay. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If you meet those three, 9 you would qualify. 10 AUDIENCE: Thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know if this 12 complicates it or not, but -- but Hays County talks about 13 unfiltered water cachement system, over 25 gallon -- 14 2,500-gallon capacity, is valued at $1.50 per gallon of 15 storage. And, if you call up there and talk to the 16 Appraisal District and get some enlightenment, that would be 17 helpful. 18 MR. COATES: Sure will. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I talked to the 20 Commissioner, and he just didn't give me all those fine 21 points. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: He's a big picture person. 23 Mr. Thompson? 24 MR. THOMPSON: I just wonder -- the cachement 25 system for irrigation, is that necessary for the ultraviolet 37 1 protection? 2 MS. PENÁ: No. 3 MR. THOMPSON: Maybe you might have a 4 separate category. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ultraviolet's for 6 domestic use only, I think. I guess you could purify it and 7 put it on your plants, but you don't need to. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure save on pumps and 9 all if you keep the stuff out of it, though. 10 AUDIENCE: Is it necessary for plants for 11 yards? 12 MS. PENÁ: No, it's not. You don't have to 13 filter at all if it's for plants. It's rainwater. 14 AUDIENCE: Right. So, what I'm saying is, 15 one of those criteria shouldn't be necessary for the 16 irrigation system. 17 MS. PENÁ: Oh. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which? The sunlight 19 restrictive? 20 MS. PENÁ: Sunlight restrictive. 21 AUDIENCE: You're talking about a closed 22 container. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's what the criteria 24 says on the sheet that Bill handed me. It just -- 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For irrigation, I 38 1 guess that's not a criteria that's necessary, to have 2 sunlight restricted. 3 AUDIENCE: Unless you want closed container. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, the only requirement 5 is the size, then, 'cause insect-proofing doesn't make any 6 difference, then, so all you're saying is that -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, ma'am? Right here. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is going to open it 9 up to a lot more -- 10 AUDIENCE: I hate to take this back a couple 11 of steps, but I'd like some clarification again about the 12 incentive. As I heard it last stated, it would be that if 13 the -- if you had a $100,000 home and you added a $5,000 14 system, you would not then be valued at $105,000. I thought 15 that I heard the Judge, prior to that, say that there would 16 be a deduction on the expense. Is that the case? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Those are the 18 alternatives. We haven't crafted the program yet, but the 19 alternatives that I've heard and I believe are possible, one 20 is if you prove up a certain size system, you get a certain 21 deduction from your tax bill. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: What you just described, if 23 you prove up a certain cost of the system, then your 24 appraisal value -- the appraised value of your property will 25 not go up because of that system. 39 1 AUDIENCE: I think it sounds good to have 2 both of those things going on. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You want them both? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: These are details that we 5 obviously haven't worked out yet. 6 AUDIENCE: Okay. Thank you. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, ma'am? 8 AUDIENCE: What was the reasoning behind 9 including the mosquito protection? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: For purposes of potable 11 water, that's important. If you're going to drink the 12 water, you have to have the protection from the insects. 13 AUDIENCE: I was wondering if it was even 14 more to make sure that we're not promoting an increase of 15 mosquitoes in the area. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: True. 17 AUDIENCE: Whether it's potable or not, I 18 mean, is Hays -- is Hays County -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're not talking to 20 technical experts here. We don't know the answers here. 21 Those are answers we'll have to get. We don't know whether 22 there is a reasonable rationale for having insect prevention 23 on all systems, but that's something that we'll talk to our 24 brethren in Hays County and talk to the folks out in the 25 entomology lab here and get some answers to before we ever 40 1 say grace over a program, if that's the direction we have. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- along that 3 line, I really think you need some sort of criteria that you 4 have to meet. Otherwise, you're going to have people 5 digging a hole and putting a plastic liner in it, and you're 6 going to have, I mean, all kinds of things. And, whoever 7 does the checking up on it is going to be run ragged trying 8 to figure out what the value of a hole dug with a plastic 9 liner is versus a true -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Fiberglass tank. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think that's 12 probably why they did it, put certain criteria in it. You 13 meet those standards, then you go from there. 14 AUDIENCE: One other -- I guess the value of 15 having an enclosed tank is you -- you wouldn't lose water to 16 evaporation. The whole thing we're trying to do is conserve 17 water, and we're trying to keep as much of it in place, and 18 those things are coming down in cost all the time. It may 19 be even cheaper in the long run. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to go back to 21 the application fee. I may be the only one in here that 22 thinks it's a little bit, maybe, strange that we're going to 23 pay a fee to collect God's rainwater. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't think we're 25 going to do that. 41 1 AUDIENCE: No, sir, you're not the only one. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't -- no, I 3 don't think we're going to do that. I think we're trying to 4 fine-tune this so that will disappear. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, ma'am? 7 AUDIENCE: I was thinking -- just had the 8 thought come to my mind. Instead of, like, trying to find 9 some person that we'd have to put on a -- on a salary to go 10 out and look at these things, it would seem to me that as 11 you gather your system together, that you could keep the 12 information well-documented, and if I purchased a fiberglass 13 tank or if I purchased a -- a, you know, plastic tank, I 14 would have that documentation, which I could then -- I could 15 carry to whomever it is that is allowing me to get this 16 exemption, and prove that I had this in place. Because I 17 can see problems created in some sort of -- whoever it is 18 that's going to have to go out there and look at these 19 things. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's another possibility. 21 You know, that's another way it could be looked at. Mr. 22 Brown? 23 MR. BROWN: I have two questions. One, I'd 24 like to respond that -- that, in a perfect world, I think 25 the individual invoices would probably be the best support, 42 1 but that doesn't work, realistically. People get invoices, 2 pay for them, and they'll turn them in to the Appraisal 3 District and they'll get credit for a system that they've 4 never thought about putting in the ground. The other -- the 5 other question I have -- and I -- and I'm not trying to hire 6 on for the inspection job; that's the last job I need. 7 MR. COATES: You can have it. 8 MR. BROWN: The other thing I want to ask -- 9 I thought someone would have asked it by now. Let's say I 10 put in a $10,000 system in my home. Is there a depreciation 11 schedule on that, and the longer it's there, the less value 12 it has? And, does that affect my taxes? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, in the original 14 proposal that we're talking about today, it's not there, but 15 it has been suggested to me by a gentleman who's in the 16 audience right now that it might not be a bad idea to have a 17 declining schedule -- depreciation schedule, so that if 18 you're -- over whatever period of time, 10 years or 19 whatever, you put in $10,000 -- 10,000, 9, 8, 7, 6, until it 20 finally goes away, which I think is not a bad idea. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, all of these 22 questions are going to the same point, as to -- you're 23 creating a bureaucracy. The Appraisal District or someone's 24 going to have to deal with -- have to change values every 25 year on properties that have it. And, it's just -- to me, 43 1 it's -- if we're going to encourage it, and I think it's 2 probably a good idea to do it, just decide on an amount, and 3 if you have a system and it's there, it's a $100 exemption 4 or $200 or whatever we decide. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Off the tax bill? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah, just tax. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Tax credit. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tax credit. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Because I think, 10 otherwise, you're talking about depreciation schedules and 11 then you're talking about the cost or the value, and if 12 you're talking about cost -- well, if I got -- you know, you 13 get a good deal or bad deal, then, you know, if you got a 14 bad deal, then you get a better break. To me, it's just 15 easier just to be very simple about it. Simplicity usually 16 works the best. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not troubled by 18 that. Yes? 19 AUDIENCE: Listening to several people, I 20 believe that you do need two incentives to make the program 21 get off the ground. Once the program is off the ground, I 22 believe we will be selling to each other the idea of doing 23 this. I believe that the collection of rainwater for either 24 outdoor watering, which would be one way, or for total 25 consumption within the home, is the second way, puts this 44 1 county in the foreground of water conservation. I believe 2 this issue would become something that can be played to the 3 hilt with regard of what this county is doing with regard to 4 the Trinity Aquifer. The Trinity Aquifer consumption and 5 use thereof initially starts with this county. We need to 6 be in a position of holding our water available to us so 7 that if the state government, in two, four, or six years, 8 has some goodies for people who are doing right, we can put 9 our hand up in the air first. (Applause.) 10 I think the application, which has to be free 11 and can be somewhere -- can be on a table in the middle of 12 the courthouse, if the Judge and the Commissioners are 13 willing for that kind of distribution, but I believe that 14 can be supported, then, after the creation of the system, 15 whether it's for outdoor watering or for the whole house, 16 and that application can then go to the Appraisal District 17 as a part of their records. They, in their checking 18 properties, can check to see if this was added, make sure 19 that this was not added to the assessed value of the 20 property. And, I would submit to the Court -- to the Judge 21 that the added incentive in the first year, the tax rate -- 22 tax dollars -- their tax dollars be reduced $1,000. $1,000. 23 That will not pay for a full system, but it will look pretty 24 darn good. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, something you 45 1 might try to think about is a one-time, up-front tax credit 2 in the year it's installed, and forget about it after that. 3 AUDIENCE: That sounds good. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Takes care of the 5 depreciation schedule and that all that. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Simple. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's a one-time tax 8 credit in the year it's installed. 9 MS. PENÁ: The City of Austin does that now. 10 AUDIENCE: $1,000. One -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: At a rate to be 12 determined. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Arthur. 14 (Applause.) 15 AUDIENCE: We just had a good suggestion 16 right here that I've been praying for ever since this 17 meeting started, and I know Commissioner Williams knows what 18 I'm talking about, and that's a KISS; Keep It Simple, 19 Stupid. Let's make it everything up-front and get it done, 20 stop the inspectors, stop this annual appraisal. You put 21 the system in, you get a handful of receipts, you get a -- 22 certified by your own signature, if necessary, and then that 23 first year exemption is -- is subject to hoping the 24 certification holds. In other words, if a man comes around 25 in a -- in a routine inspection of your property -- 46 1 appraisal, if you will -- and he finds out that you don't 2 have the things that you certified, it could be a penalty. 3 But, I -- I mean, all this -- all these other things we're 4 talking about are valid considerations, but let's have a 5 case and get on with it. 6 AUDIENCE: There you go. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We've been at this for an 8 hour now, and that's about as long as my attention span will 9 provide. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's been a very valuable 11 discussion. I think everyone understands this is a 12 workshop. There's -- no action has been taken today. No 13 action will be taken today. What we're here to do is 14 exchange ideas, concepts, get a sense of the community's 15 interest in such a program, because we all know it will 16 impact each of us. Each of us will have to reach in our 17 wallets and put out a little more money in order to support 18 this kind of conservation incentive program. If it's 19 something that the community supports, then it's something 20 that the Court will certainly take a close look at. Before 21 we adjourn the workshop, is there anything the Commissioners 22 would like to add at this time? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only comment I have, I 24 think it's a tremendous, you know, sign that this many 25 people came from the community, and it shows that there's an 47 1 interest in the county in doing something to encourage 2 conservation. And, I think this is one step; I think there 3 are lots of other measures, and I think that, you know, one 4 of the things that we have to be aware of and remember as a 5 Commissioners Court is that we can't just pick out just one 6 topic. We have to look at what the long-range conservation 7 picture is going to be. I think using tax credits is a very 8 good way for government to encourage actions, and so I think 9 we're going in the right direction. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with 12 Commissioner Letz. And, I wanted to add, Arthur, in the 20 13 years that I've been following you around, listening to you 14 talk, that's the first ovation I've ever heard. 15 (Laughter.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Bill? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess, in summary, 18 Judge and Commissioners, we'll fine-tune this, get 19 everybody's input again as to what is the best approach, and 20 craft a program for Kerr County and have it back on the 21 agenda at the earliest possible time. And, I want to 22 express my thanks and appreciation to Raul and Sandy and the 23 representatives from the two water agencies, and all of you 24 for coming today. Really appreciate you turning out for 25 this event. 48 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Larry, do you have anything? 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, except I would 3 echo what's been said before me, and also to add that if we 4 can make this something that is easy to understand -- not 5 just simple, but also easy to understand, I think we'll see 6 a much quicker ramp up of public interest. We've got to be 7 able to sell this in -- in the -- to the local community and 8 to everybody in the county. We've got to be able to sell it 9 as a simple idea whose time has come, and that's really what 10 it is. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you all for 12 coming. This concludes the workshop. 13 (Applause.) 14 (Workshop concluded at 3:12 p.m.) 15 - - - - - - - - - - 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 2nd day of July, 2001. 8 9 10 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 11 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 12 Certified Shorthand Reporter 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25