1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Tuesday, July 24, 2001 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 24, 2001 2 PAGE 3 Budget Workshop 4 2:00 p.m. Budget Overview by County Auditor 3 5 General Discussion 30 6 3:00 p.m. Commissioners Court 63 7 County Judge 70 8 Nondepartmental 71 9 Health Department 85 10 Volunteer Fire Departments 92 11 4:00 p.m. City/County 102 12 Adjourned 126 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Tuesday, July 24, 2001, at 1:30 p.m., a budget workshop 2 was held in the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County 3 Courthouse, Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings 4 were had in open court: 5 P R O C E E D I N G S 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's 1:30 in the afternoon on 7 Monday -- Tuesday, July 24th, Year 2001, and we'll open 8 these budget workshop sessions. First topic scheduled for 9 discussion this afternoon is a budget overview from our 10 Auditor, Mr. Tomlinson. Tommy? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I guess you want me to stand 12 up. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It will be briefer that 14 way. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. We've looked at this 17 before, actually. Part of it, anyway. First page, what I 18 want to talk about a little bit is the estimated fund 19 balances. It's in a -- I clipped three pages together. It 20 has estimated fund balances, revenue estimates, and then a 21 budget summary for 2001 and 2002. Everybody got that? 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. This -- this first 24 one, estimated fund balances is just my estimate of what the 25 balance we have to start with for 2001/2002. As you can see 4 1 in -- in the -- in the top section, under the General Fund, 2 where these are all funds that are -- that are funded by the 3 M & O tax, that we have -- that our fund balances will go 4 down approximately $600,000. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Just -- this is the second 6 page of the three pages that were handed out, where it says 7 "Estimated Fund Balances," right? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. That's what I'm 9 looking at. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think yours are in a 11 different order than ours. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, maybe so. Okay. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Now everybody's on the 14 same page. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I got yours together on a 16 different day. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's an old 18 auditor's trick. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Confuse the 20 Commissioners. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Now we're all on the same 22 page, the page headed "Estimated Fund Balances." 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Well, this, you can 24 see, is down from -- the fund balance that I'm anticipating 25 is $4 million, 5 for funds that are funded by the general 5 1 M & O tax. That's basically because of the -- the unused 2 portion of the proceeds of the -- of the tax note for the 3 construction of the court -- of the Annex. We had 4 approximately -- we had $559,000 at the end of 2000, and now 5 we're -- now we anticipate zero at the end of -- of this 6 year, so basically that's -- that's the story, as far as 7 that part of the -- of the fund balance goes. 8 The next -- the middle section is Road and 9 Bridge funds, and that is a little different picture. 10 We're -- we're down $425,000. That's for two reasons. One 11 is -- is that we transferred $240,000, approximately, from 12 Special Projects to the operating budget in Road and Bridge, 13 just like -- you know, this year. Also, we lowered the tax 14 rate for -- lowered Road and Bridge from 3.72 in '99 year, 15 to 2.4 for -- for this year. So, I don't -- I don't think 16 that we need to -- to do that again. I mean, I -- I think 17 we need to do something about stopping the flow of -- of 18 dollars from Road and Bridge to -- to general operating. I 19 think -- I think if we if we do it again, then we may be in 20 trouble as far as -- as surplus funds in Road and Bridge. 21 Let's see. There's only $4,000 difference in fund balances 22 for all the non-tax-supported funds. You see I'm estimating 23 it between -- about $4,000. Any questions on that, on that 24 page? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: To put it a different way, 6 1 the million-three, six, the fund balance in Road and Bridge, 2 you would not like to see that go down any? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. And -- but -- 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Because part of that, you 6 have to -- is the Schreiner Road Trust. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: $300,000 of that is Schreiner 9 Road Trust that we can't just automatically use for -- for 10 Road and Bridge operations. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: So you have to discount that 13 $300-some-odd thousand out of your active -- what I would 14 call an active supply of -- of fund balance. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, you really only 16 have a million? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, did the -- we 19 already paid the for Hermann Sons bridge, the $92,000 that 20 was our portion. Didn't we already -- we only paid -- how 21 much -- didn't we pay part of that this year? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: For -- you know, for -- yeah, 23 we did. That was a budget amendment last court meeting. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's also the reason 25 that Road and Bridge -- that was pretty big hit between the 7 1 replacement bridge and the -- the -- our portion of the 2 permanent bridge is a hundred -- almost $150,000 for those 3 two things, $130,000. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, part of that came out 5 of -- out of Flood Control. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's right. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Which is on the topside of 8 this. It's not included in -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. That's not a Road 10 and Bridge -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But that accounts for 14 one of the reduction -- that's part of the reduction up in 15 the top one, too, 'cause that's where it did come from. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are you comfortable with the 18 $4 million, 5 in the general -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I think so. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: As a fund balance? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm, yeah. I think -- I 22 don't think -- I don't see a problem with that at all. 23 Because, I mean, you know, we started the year with -- with 24 excess funds, and we all know it was borrowed money. So, 25 you know, I don't -- I don't see -- I don't see that we have 8 1 any -- any concern about a flat fund balance from -- from 2 one year to the next. I don't see our -- our budget going 3 up a great percentage. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: So, I think if you apply -- 6 if you divide our proposed expenditures by -- by 12 and 7 multiply times three, you come up with something less than 8 this $4 million. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anybody have any other 10 questions on the fund balance issue? Guess not. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Let's look at the 12 revenue estimates page. And, there's two sides to this. 13 One is non-tax revenues, and then on the other side is the 14 tax revenue. Now, I have listed here the -- what the -- the 15 current fiscal year's budget was, what I estimate the actual 16 to be, and then what I've estimated 2001/2002 to be. 17 There's -- I see a slight maybe decrease in non-tax revenues 18 for -- for next year. Part of that is due to the fact that 19 we had some -- some sizable grants this fiscal year that we 20 might not have for -- for next year that I didn't put in 21 here because I -- I just think that -- that it's 22 fifty-fifty, and we might not have those again. So -- so, 23 rather than include those, I left them out, and if you 24 include those -- those grants, it would be flat. 25 All the other, you know, fees and fines and 9 1 those -- those sort of revenues, I don't -- the only reason 2 I see for those to change would be just by pure volume, and 3 that would be for -- you know, population growth and 4 activity in the courthouse would -- would cause that to 5 increase. But, I -- my experience over the years is that 6 that doesn't change a lot, so -- and we've seen some -- some 7 bad times -- not bad times, but a flat trend in sales tax 8 revenues, and I know that's -- I think that's prevalent in 9 all the counties surrounding this county and this area. So, 10 I don't -- I didn't anticipate any -- any sizable -- even in 11 an inflationary increase in sales tax. So, I left those 12 flat as far as anticipation for next year. Road and Bridge 13 is -- I would consider relatively flat. I see some change 14 in the non-tax funds and non-tax revenue, basically because 15 of the Juvenile Detention Facility. The Board has 16 recommended a change in the rates that we charge, and we 17 have estimated that that will bring in about $225,000 18 additional revenue for next year, so that's -- that's 19 essentially -- that's the increase from -- from last year. 20 The -- at the bottom, what I've done here 21 is -- is I've totaled the -- the non-tax and non-tax -- the 22 tax and non-tax revenues for budget and the estimated actual 23 for last year, and from that I've arrived at what the tax 24 collections need to be for -- for 2002 to make -- to 25 generate the same amount of revenue. So, that's $6,886,000 10 1 is the amount of taxes we need to generate to equal the same 2 amount of revenues that were collected in 2000/2001. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions? Comments? 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What did we collect 5 the year before, roughly? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do you recall? 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't have that number with 9 me. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I wondered how that 11 last number compares to the year before. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, isn't this 13 number right there -- isn't that the estimated actual up at 14 the top? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That's the estimated actual 16 tax collection. As you see, I'm estimating that we collect 17 $7,052,100. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: So, if we -- if we collect 20 that amount next year, we'll have the same amount of revenue 21 to work with. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: The last -- the next page 24 is -- is a budget summary, and this worksheet includes the 25 tax revenues that are projected and the non-tax revenues 11 1 that are projected, and the -- and the expenditures of the 2 budgets that were submitted to the Judge as-is, as 3 requested. So, all -- all the numbers that you're going to 4 see on these budget worksheets are in this total, so that 5 gives you an idea of -- of what kind of fund balance, what 6 this budget has as it is today will do to our fund balance 7 at the end of 2002. And, there's not really -- I mean, as 8 you can see, in Road and Bridge is where I have my concern, 9 because if we do -- if we do the same thing that we did last 10 year for the upcoming year, we're going to have a fund 11 balance of only about $300,000. I mean, if you consider 12 that $325,000 of that is Schreiner Road Trust moneys. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, would you go 14 over one line for me? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just real quick at the 17 top, the jail bonds, the 2001/'02 expenditures is 533, and 18 the estimated balance. Tell me about that. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: The tax note? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Or where it has a negative -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, the jail bonds, 23 I'm sorry. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The last one. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The last one on there. 12 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That summary. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I've estimated a 3 balance to start with of $110,000. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. The tax revenue is 6 $570,000. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Non-tax revenue is $5,200. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What's the non-tax 10 revenue? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: It would be interest. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. Okay, go 13 ahead. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: And with the indebtedness, 15 reduction of $533,708. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- does that 17 mean that we're going to pay $533,000 in the one year? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Mm-hmm. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Now, take me to 20 the estimated balance. What does that mean? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: That means -- that's the 22 funds that would be available in that -- in that fund to 23 start the next year with. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: And one -- one reason that we 13 1 pay attention to what our fund balances is -- is in those 2 funds, is that if -- if our interest payments are due before 3 we have major tax collections, we need that money available 4 to pay -- to make the interest payments. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Cash flow. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It's a cash flow situation 7 that you have to be careful about. So, you'll have -- 8 you'll have available funds to make the payments. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I just want to 10 think out loud here just for a second. So, the jail was 11 built, $6 million jail, on the promise that we would house 12 out-of-county prisoners and that would pay down the debt. 13 So, this theory of we fill it up with out-of-county 14 prisoners, we bring in $250,000 a year on that, that doesn't 15 come anywhere near the annual payment. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No, especially if you 17 consider the cost to keep them. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. If I was the 19 Sheriff, I would say, well, I filled the jail up and I'm 20 bringing in $250,000. You ought to at least let me spend 21 that $250,000 on my upgrades and my deputies and -- we've 22 heard that a few times in here. And, this is the first time 23 I've ever paid attention to what, really, the payment is, so 24 that's not a real good argument for a Sheriff to make. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: The way the tax -- tax 14 1 note -- the last debt we did was structured was to -- to 2 somewhat level out the -- the principal and interest 3 payments for all of our debt. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: So, I think what happens, 6 even later on, after the tax note's paid off, is that the 7 principal and interest payment gets larger at the end. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: When is that tax note 9 paid off? What year? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I think its a 7-year note, so 11 it was '97 when that was issued. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, it's '99. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: It's '97. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: 'Cause I signed it. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which one are y'all 16 talking about? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tax Anticipation Note on 18 the renovation. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: It was one of the first 20 things I did when I took office. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Maybe it was '99. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: It was actually issued -- I 23 think the note was actually issued in January of '99. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: Maybe it was. I keep -- I 25 don't know why I think it was '97. 15 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think Fred's right 2 this time, Tommy. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Too much to think about. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Cause I know I had to sign 5 all this stuff that you guys dumped on me from the previous 6 court. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it's basically two and 8 a half years through the -- four years left -- four and a 9 half years left on that. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Tommy, I've got a 11 question. In all the numbers here, do the road district 12 numbers reflect Lake Ingram Estates road district? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it doesn't. Those are 14 the established road districts. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: All right. Okay. The 16 reason I ask that question is -- by the way, if you haven't 17 seen it, everybody on this Court ought to go up and take a 18 look at that road. It is beautiful. It may be the best 19 road in the county. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Ingram Lakes? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Lake Ingram Estates. 22 The roads they put in are fantastic. But, at any rate, it 23 looks like, according to Road and Bridge, they'll know 24 within the next few days. Looks like that they probably 25 underspent the bond amount by around $20,000. It is 16 1 appropriate to use that on the first payment to decrease 2 the -- potentially, the district owns that. We can use that 3 on the first -- toward the first bond payment, which greatly 4 reduces the taxes in that first year, and solved the 5 valuations that are so out of line, and those are all now 6 coming up the way they should be. I think that's very 7 appropriate to do. But, if it's not reflected here, we 8 don't have to address that now. That was the reason for my 9 question. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No, it's not in there. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I understand why 12 it's not, because it is a not-until-next-year deal, anyway. 13 That road is beautiful, though. Nice work. Wish I had one 14 like that. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the -- the dance is going 16 to be how to put more tax revenue into Road and Bridge, but 17 still yet maintain enough revenue in the general operating, 18 since the -- the other stuff is basically self-funding 19 anyway, the Law Library and the records management, 20 courthouse security and stuff like that; is that correct? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, that's what I said. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any questions or 23 comments? We need to -- Jonathan, do you think we need to 24 put more back in Flood Control? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: We can start -- I think we 17 1 could start, you know, adding taxes back there. We haven't 2 added tax to that in three or four years. It's just been 3 earning interest, is what it's doing. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it certainly 5 wouldn't hurt, 'cause, I mean, as Hermann Sons showed, a 6 pretty minor, isolated flood -- wasn't a minor flood, but it 7 wasn't a major flood, and it hit us pretty hard. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: The problem, though, is that 9 every -- unless we're willing to contemplate raising the 10 overall tax rate, if we put a tax rate against flood control 11 and we increase the tax rate for the various Road and 12 Bridge's, then we're going to have to deduct the tax rate 13 for the operating -- the General Fund, which means we're 14 going to come out possibly short of what we'd like to have. 15 So, it's -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think getting Road and 17 Bridge -- giving some of the tax rate or increasing theirs 18 back to where it needs to be, or not decreasing it again, is 19 more important than flood control, to me. Because flood 20 control is one of those things that you need to plan for, 21 but at the same time, it's not a -- I mean, I think we 22 need -- Road and Bridge is more important, having that line. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. And, 24 the good point is -- is that we probably can't put enough in 25 flood control to do a lot of good in one year. You know, I 18 1 mean, that would -- you would -- you've sort of got to take 2 the risk. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The other thing, you 5 know, the -- with Road and Bridge, assuming they build the 6 high water bridge, our share is, I assume, going to go up on 7 that. I mean, as this thing gets delayed and delayed and 8 delayed, our estimated expenditure is going to go up and up 9 and up, even though we paid 10 percent, right? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's 10 percent 12 of the total cost, and that total cost has got to be going 13 up. I mean -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Talking about the high 15 water bridge? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: However, there was a 17 thing at that last public hearing that we went to that, for 18 some reason, our share was going to go way down, wasn't 19 going to be -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I thought the deal was we 21 were only buying the right-of-way. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: That a lot of the 24 right-of-way was donated, so that the $200,000 we've been 25 carrying for the project really is potentially more than 19 1 we're going to need, and that's what I remember. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, in fact, Leonard 3 thought it would be smart, and I think he was right, not to 4 -- to decrease it yet, but that if things work out the way 5 -- and, by the way, there's a public hearing the 13th of 6 August on this, a real, official public hearing. And, if 7 that -- if that really goes the way they said at this 8 pre-meeting that it should go, then we may end up spending a 9 lot less on the High Water Bridge. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which is -- based on what 11 the Hermann Sons Bridge is going to cost, the High Water 12 Bridge -- that will be -- I don't know what TexDot's 13 budgeted for that. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The cost is going up, 15 but is the cost going up in TexDot's budget? That's the 16 thing. That's the difference. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: All right. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any other questions 19 for Tommy? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: I'd like to add a couple of 21 things before we start, and -- and it's kind of a 22 housekeeping thing for me, but it does have to do with 23 budget. And, it's -- I'm going to try to do some things 24 that will help me implement GASB-34, and one of them has to 25 do with -- with Road and Bridge funds. We have five 20 1 different funds relative to Road and Bridge. One of them 2 is -- of course, is the Schreiner Road Trust fund that I 3 keep separate, but I would like to combine the operating 4 account or the operating fund with the Lateral Road Fund and 5 the Farm-to-Market Road Fund. The -- the last two I 6 mentioned are used solely for collecting moneys. In other 7 words, all the tax dollars are -- are credited in the 8 Farm-to-Market Lateral Road Fund, and the moneys that we get 9 from the State, which is only $32,000 a year, is credited to 10 the Lateral Road and Bridge Fund. And, what happens is that 11 we -- we receive the money in those funds and then we turn 12 around and transfer them out into the operating account. 13 Well, that's just some extra steps that -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: -- that we don't need, and 16 when GASB-34 is implemented, we're going to have to combine 17 these funds anyway, because -- because the statement of 18 activities, which replaces the -- the statement of revenues 19 and expenditures will be functional, and so I'm going to 20 have to consolidate funds together that -- that we can agree 21 on that we need to report on. So -- and I know that, of 22 course, Road and Bridge is a major operation, and I know we 23 want to -- to consolidate all of our activities into -- into 24 one Road and Bridge. The other is -- is -- is additional 25 registration fee. Originally, when that was -- when we 21 1 first started collecting that fee, the Court agreed that 2 they would charge that $10 if -- if it were separate and it 3 was used on Special Projects, and that's why today we're 4 using those moneys for that purpose, for specially named 5 projects. My question to you is, do we -- do we still -- is 6 that still important, that -- that we separate that fee from 7 all the other fees that are for Road and Bridge? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, no. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, I don't think so. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I want to keep the 11 Special Projects separate. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: There's no -- I mean, there's 13 no legal problems or any statutory requirements that we keep 14 it separate, and so -- I mean, as far as I'm concerned, if 15 you want to segregate Special Projects in the budget, we can 16 name them in the operating budget. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: If that's what we want to do. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I can tell you, 20 in the beginning, that is how we started up the Special 21 Projects program. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is by earmarking that 24 license plate money, and that's all it was. And, I don't -- 25 Glenn, do you -- do you have any kind of heartfelt thing? 22 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: You're absolutely right. With 2 those three bridges, remember, that were designated, and it 3 was that money. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So I don't think 5 there's anything special or wonderful about it. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, we just take those 7 projects, and those would be enumerated in the operating 8 budget instead. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And then redirect 11 those dollars from license to -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Into the operating 13 fund. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. So we'll have all of 15 our eggs in one basket, so-to-speak, that way, and make it 16 easier to -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Eggs in baskets? 18 How'd we get off on that? 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You just said "in the 20 beginning." 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's right. 22 (Laughter.) 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're quick today. 24 MR. TOMLINSON: One more item, and it's -- 25 it's kinds of a picky thing, but -- and I don't know if it 23 1 makes sense to you, but it does to me. And, we're -- we're 2 constantly having budget amendments for -- for, I would say, 3 immaterial things, and they always have to do with office 4 supplies, copy supplies, computer supplies, and dockets and 5 forms. I would like to have one account for -- for all of 6 those -- 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good idea. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: -- for each budget, and 9 consolidate all of the operating-type supplies for each 10 office into one account. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Which one? Name those 12 again that you want to consolidate? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Office supplies, photocopy 14 supplies, computer supplies, and dockets and forms. They're 15 all paper -- basically, paper goods, is what -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree. I never could 17 figure out why we had them all separated, anyway. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. And, again, you 19 could build a budget in categories if you wanted to, but 20 when you budget it, you budget one account. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: That way -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I think that would save us on 24 some budget amendments. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Anything to save us on 24 1 budget amendments. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: For $7.21. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: In the beginning, God 5 created many line items. In 2001, we deleted them. 6 (Laughter.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I want to ask about the 8 Schreiner Road Trust. I know it's only applicable to one 9 and four, but do you gentlemen think that we're using that 10 fund appropriately? To me, it seems like we -- it's kind of 11 an afterthought, almost. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: My view on the 13 Schreiner Road Trust is that we don't use it enough. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what I mean. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We are using it right 16 now in my precinct near the State Hospital in that -- we're 17 using it to do some right-of-way and do some things, so 18 we're using it properly there. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. And -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's one of the few 21 times it's ever been touched. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We probably just need 23 to -- we probably need to keep it on the front burner a 24 little bit more and think about in one and four, using those 25 moneys instead of tapping the operating fund or something 25 1 when we don't really have to. It can be -- if it's a 2 relatively small expenditure, if it's -- if it falls within 3 the guidelines of the trust and all that, then perhaps we 4 ought to use it. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Which the 6 guidelines -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We sort of think of it 8 last instead of thinking of it sometimes first. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's a reasonable 10 purpose of the trust? 11 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it was approximately 12 150,000. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Farm-to-Market. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: That trust has been moved. I 15 mean, we've talked about that, what, a year ago, two years 16 ago, and finally -- 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's with Security. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: With Security Bank and 19 Trust's Trust Department now. And, last conversation I had 20 with their -- their Trust Department about this is that, 21 from their recommendation, we -- it might be best to leave 22 the earnings from the trust in the Trust Department for -- I 23 think they can probably maximize our return on the corpus. 24 And, when -- and when we know that we want to use part of 25 those funds, to submit it in writing to them, to the Trust 26 1 Department, what we want to do with those -- with those 2 funds. Then they'll release the funds by check, give them 3 to us, and we can put them in our budget. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. Well, then I 5 think that's more of a -- that's more of an allocation 6 policy. We just need to -- and we probably just need to 7 look at it better. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anything else for 9 Tommy? Anything else you want to bring to us? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: We'll, there's one thing I 11 just want you to think about, and it has to do with -- with 12 capital expenditures, and this also has something to do with 13 GASB-34. And, with GASB-34, we -- we will have to start 14 depreciating assets. I don't see any reason to -- to 15 depreciate an asset that has a value of anything under $500 16 or $750, Or maybe even $1,000. I don't know if there's 17 any -- any reason to set those assets with minimal value up 18 on a depreciation schedule. So, what -- what I'm going to 19 propose, I think, is to -- to have another account that -- 20 that we can call Operating Equipment or something like that, 21 for -- for those tangible assets that are -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Under some -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- under a certain amount, 24 that we -- that we will have some control over. I mean, as 25 far as who has responsibility for those assets, but yet keep 27 1 them separate and not a part of, quote, Capital Outlay. 2 And -- and reserve the Capital Outlay account for those 3 assets that -- that have some appreciable value and life 4 expectancy. So, I mean, that would make life easier for me, 5 I think, in trying to implement GASB-34. So, what I want 6 you to think about is -- is what level do you feel 7 comfortable with in -- in separating -- in separation? 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Does GASB-34 give any 9 guidance on that at all? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No. No. People I've talked 11 to, that separation point ranges from $500 to $5,000, so 12 they -- you know, just -- it depends on the county. So -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, what you do is, in the 14 budget, you'd have Capital Outlay, but that would be 15 reserved for items which individually cost more than -- 16 let's just say $1,000. Then you'd have Operating Equipment? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Some account. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Another designation in the 19 same budget which would be items less than $1,000 that are 20 not expendables like paper goods? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: That makes it easier. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: If that passes, GASB-34, 24 probably ought to make it about 1,000 bucks, is what I 25 think, $1,000 and over. Anything under $1,000. 28 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, are you going 2 to consolidate those lines? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: The four I talked about? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. I mean -- 6 (Discussion off the record.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can't vote on it today, 8 but I think you've got the sense of the Court that we don't 9 have any problems with having fewer lines. We don't have to 10 have as many budget items. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Any other ideas we can 12 use to cut down on budget amendments, I think -- because 13 it's -- it really is -- I mean, it's just a -- sometimes we 14 get down to such small amounts, having to reallocate, that 15 it's -- it's really not worth the Court's time. It's not 16 significant from an accounting sense. The GASB -- you know, 17 its significance in accounting is that some of the things we 18 do are -- don't have significance. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Sometime in the future, I 20 want to give you a -- a list of government functions that -- 21 that we can structure our -- our statement of activities by, 22 and they're just basic government functions. And, what I 23 want to ask the Court for is their ideas on any -- any other 24 function that we provide that you would want reported 25 separately. And, I mean, this is something that's not -- 29 1 not generic to any county. I mean, you can -- I mean, you 2 have the -- the leeway to structure it any way you want, and 3 I'm just going to give you a basic line; there's eight or 4 ten basic functions, and then what I would like for you to 5 do is -- is apply back if there's any other -- any other 6 function that you would like to see. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Okay, anything 8 else? Anybody have any questions? When is GASB effective 9 again? 2002? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: We start October of 2003. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: October 1. We have to do our 12 financials according to the new GASB-34. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's based on county 14 size, isn't it, when it becomes effective? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. In fact, I plan to 16 have -- have our financials under GASB-34 at the end of this 17 year, at the end of 2002. 'Cause if you don't -- if you 18 don't have it under those rules at the end of the prior 19 year, you have to go back and restate your -- your financial 20 statements at the beginning -- at the beginning of the year. 21 So, I mean, that's the gap. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, 2003, we're 23 required -- 24 MR. TOMLINSON: So, basically, I have to have 25 our statements available in that format with all the 30 1 accruals done by the end of this year. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: This coming year. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Thanks, Tommy. 6 We appreciate it. Let's move on to 2 o'clock, which is 7 General Discussion. Which, as we did last year, I certainly 8 want it to be free-flowing, and everybody's ideas and 9 thoughts. I've just done a quick memo today to you, to the 10 Commissioners, about where I think we are. And -- and there 11 are things that, in my opinion, have to be prioritized in 12 the budget year. Certainly not requirements, something that 13 absolutely has to be done. But, without the additional 14 revenue generated by lowering the Road and Bridge tax, I 15 think we've got an interesting tax -- no pun intended -- 16 year ahead of us. So, the things that I see that are really 17 critical that we work on this year are the cost-of-living 18 increase for the employees, to address the elected official, 19 department head salaries. Based on my observation and my 20 discussions, I think that the Tax Assessor is certainly in a 21 position where she's entitled to and needs -- and in a 22 position to act as the Deputy Voter Registrar. The number 23 of registered voters in Kerr County, I think, went up about 24 6,000 over the last two or three years; it's gone up 6,000 25 since I was really concerned about how many voters there 31 1 were in Kerr County, and that's a sizable increase, when you 2 consider the job that they have to do keeping records 3 current. 4 Glenn has convinced me that we have to 5 address the air-conditioning in the Clerk's offices in the 6 coming year, to the tune of about $30,000. We want to 7 continue work on the Courthouse Annex finish-out, as well as 8 the -- the remaining renovations to the courthouse, itself; 9 the windows, the floors, the doors, and we need to allocate 10 some funds for that. I had a call -- I had a phone 11 conversation with Bob Henderson this afternoon on the 12 Sheriff's Office communications, and if it comes in about a 13 million and a half, we're looking at $119,000 a year, if we 14 finance that over 20 years. I am reluctant to finance a 15 communication system over 20 years, because I think that's 16 so far past its useful full-time life that you're going to 17 be paying on something for ten years that you -- it's no 18 longer available for use. So, I think that's an issue that 19 we have to think very carefully about. 20 And then, the big -- other big issue that I 21 identified, just one that's coming to the forefront, is what 22 are we going to do out at the Hill Country Youth Exhibition 23 Center, the Ag Barn? I circulated to all of you a copy of 24 the bids that Mike Smart gathered for the -- what I consider 25 the essential repairs out there to keep the place 32 1 functioning. It came in out at about $150,000. I also 2 circulated, I think, to each of you a copy of the bookings 3 that are presently at the Ag Barn, and we need to be 4 constantly cognizant of the fact that we're spending 5 $230,000 a year on maintenance and upkeep of that facility 6 and bringing in $32,000 a year in revenues. I think if 7 that's what we want to do, fine; that's what we want to do, 8 but we need to make a conscious decision that that's what we 9 want to do instead of simply allowing things to go along. 10 And, if we're going to do that, then we have to address the 11 issue of -- of the necessary repairs. I think the repair 12 figure is misleading, because there was a bid from only one 13 contractor, but a bid of $96,000 to replace the current 14 pigpen location with a concrete floor, but that assumed that 15 Kerr County was going to take out the existing concrete pens 16 and remove the dirt. So, I think that's -- wouldn't you 17 agree that that's kind of a lowball bid, Glenn? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Get a bunch of prisoners out 20 there with sledgehammers knocking out pens that are in 21 concrete right now in contaminated soil. So -- and I think 22 all of you know, but the reason that -- that Glenn and Mike 23 have identified replacing those pigpens is because there 24 apparently is some bacteria in the soil which we treat every 25 year for the Hill Country Youth Junior District Livestock 33 1 Show, and all it does is suppress it for about an inch down 2 for the run of the show, and doesn't do anything towards 3 eradicating it. I think it would be irresponsible on our 4 part to continue to allow young people and their animals to 5 have that sort of an environment. Anyway, those are the 6 issues that I've identified as ones that I think that we 7 need to take a hard and fast look at in the coming year. 8 And, the Sheriff -- Sheriff's request, as you all saw, 9 identifies 270-some thousand dollars in personnel that he 10 would like to have, just in the Sheriff's Department. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: So -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He brings in $250,000 14 in out-of-county prisoners. 15 (Laughter.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Open for discussion, 17 gentlemen. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think the only thing 19 that -- in addition to what's on your list, and it's a minor 20 amount, but I think -- and it probably comes under 21 County-sponsored, something with water. I think water 22 conservation -- I mean, Bill kind of was touching on it 23 through a tax credit program or whatever, and -- and maybe 24 that's all we want to do there, but it just seems to me that 25 this is an area that this county needs a greater effort and 34 1 it's something that we could really put a very small amount 2 of money into and get a big bang for the buck, whether it 3 goes to education or conservation rebates or whatever it is. 4 But I think that, to me, I'd like to see us at least start a 5 line item fund in that area. I'm talking maybe $5,000 or 6 $10,000; not a lot of money, but just something that -- to 7 keep it on the forefront in our budget. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I've recently got the 9 information that you and I talked about from SAWS on their 10 conservation programs, which I'll go over with you and see 11 whether it has some value to it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: There's some authority in 13 ESPE (ES'-py) that gives counties specific authority in this 14 area. So, in addition to the public safety and health, 15 welfare, it qualifies under that. But it gives some very 16 specific authority on tax credits and things of that nature, 17 and I just think it's an important area. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It probably comes 19 under professional services. The one item I'd like the 20 Court to consider, but -- and there has to be a discussion 21 on Hill -- what to do with the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 22 Center, whether or not we want to retain the services of 23 U.T.S.A. to help us develop a funding mechanism. I 24 circulated their proposal to everybody before. And whether 25 or not we use U.T.S.A. or somebody else, it's the theory of 35 1 whether or not we're going to do that, and if so, we need to 2 figure out how to accommodate that. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One where I don't 4 think we have to spend any more money, 'cause the Court had 5 the foresight and wisdom to spend it before, but I think for 6 the first time in three years, I'm -- I'm beginning to feel 7 comfortable about where we stand with our computer network 8 and the computer support throughout the county. We're not 9 there yet, but we're so much closer than we were three years 10 ago that -- that I'm starting to feel pretty good about it, 11 and I think we've got a handle on what we need, how we can 12 operate, what the -- what the snag points are. For example, 13 we're still trying to recover some stuff out of the old 14 Sheriff LEM system on imagery that we can get into the new 15 system and all of that, but I think Shaun Branham's doing a 16 good job of trying to figure out ways to do that without 17 spending a lot of money, and I think we're in pretty good 18 shape for the first time. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Larry, are you 20 anticipating at least setting up a separate budget for him 21 in terms of supplies and materials and parts and so forth 22 that he might need? Or -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, I haven't talked 24 with Tommy about that. I'm not sure we need to this year, 25 but we probably will in the next year, if not this year. 36 1 What do you think, Tommy? We probably -- because, see, all 2 of the functions are budgeting their own dollars for things 3 like computer supplies and that sort of thing. If you had 4 the wherewithal or we had the accounting set up as Tommy's 5 talking about doing, where all those are lumped into one 6 account for each function, that gives us a good insight into 7 the cost for each one of those functions and probably 8 doesn't make it necessary to have a centralized computer 9 supplies and that sort of thing. Now, he may need some on 10 his own. I mean, we'll have to look at that. But -- but he 11 may need some just for running the network and for running 12 his office and that kind of thing, but that's probably going 13 to be pretty small amounts. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Larry, one of the 15 questions I had is, is our computer system up far enough to 16 link with, like, the Appraisal District and the telephone 17 company and KPUB and all? Particularly us with the 18 Appraisal District, but -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, there's some -- 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The main goal at some 21 point is to link all of that so everybody knows who 22 everybody is. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. There -- there 24 is some capability to do that, I think, with what we have. 25 However, still, our -- our -- our mini-mainframe computer 37 1 with the Software Group setup and all is going to be a tough 2 nut to crack to really, totally network that with these 3 other agencies. We can do that between the Sheriff's 4 Department mainframe and District Clerk mainframe and all 5 that. We can get there. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: We already -- we do have one 7 of the title -- we have we have one of the title companies 8 linked to our mainframe now that -- that has the capability 9 to view an image, a LAN document, and print it in their 10 office. So, I mean, that's -- that's something that our new 11 system is able to do. We're -- by the way, we are charging 12 for that, too. Right? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Glenn, turn that 14 thing down a little bit. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: We're actually charging for 16 that, so we're making money. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I can see that -- you 18 know, see that probably that -- that needs to be a subject 19 for not just a continuing workshop; it's something like an 20 interagency committee. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Which Shaun would be 23 our representative. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And we talk about what 38 1 kind of databases they have and what can be -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- what can be shared 4 and how it can be done, and then coming up with some cost, 5 at least a rough order of magnitude, cost estimates and 6 those kind of things. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's my 8 question. I -- you know, it probably needs to be driven 9 from the Appraisal District. They're the ones that really 10 need to be linked up with everybody. But, like, if -- if 11 they decided, hey, this is the year for us to pursue that, 12 are we capable of linking up? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, I think we are. 14 And we probably -- we probably are in as good a shape to do 15 that as any of the other agencies are. I suspect we may be 16 in front of most of them. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I was going to 18 argue -- help you argue with these guys, get some more money 19 in that, but if that's the case, that's the case. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, like I say, I 21 wish there was -- I'd like to see more -- 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I want to see it 23 happen. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You're right, that 25 needs to happen. Something we need to keep working towards, 39 1 but I think we probably need to consolidate what we've got 2 now, make sure that we internally are networked the way we 3 want to be. I don't see that as a large expenditure of 4 funds up front for now, and press on. Probably another year 5 from now, we'll try to do the kind of thing you're talking 6 about. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, Fred, your -- I 8 like your list. And I've added Number 8, water, $10,000. 9 But -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good suggestion. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My -- one of my 12 questions on the list was Number 5, the Annex finish-out. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then, you know, I 15 can see the 50 grand going down there, but then you -- you 16 broadened your conversation into windows and all that around 17 here. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Keith gave us a memo that had 19 about 280 -- $287,000 to do everything. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Basements and windows and all 22 that. I don't think any of us want to bite that off in one 23 chunk, so what I'm suggesting is kind of an incremental 24 approach. We'll -- we'll put $25,000 down in the Annex, 25 which will get the Treasurer moved or the County Attorney's 40 1 office or something like that, whatever you decide, since 2 you're in charge of that, and we'll also allocate 25 to the 3 courthouse, and maybe we'll replace this tile or we'll put 4 in a new front door, and we'll do, you know, just -- over 5 time, we'll do what has to be done. I was really surprised 6 by that number from Keith. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I was too. I 8 was shocked. But, in looking at the cost of what the 9 Probation offices have cost us, 50 is not going to do 10 anything down there. I mean, I can -- that could probably 11 build the Treasurer's office, but it doesn't do anything for 12 the attorneys' offices, it doesn't do anything for the 13 storage that we've been talking about. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think 25 will probably do 15 either the Treasurer or the County Attorney and the storage 16 but, it won't come anywhere near -- it's just -- you know, 17 I'm just trying -- if we want to put more into it, that's 18 fine. I'm just putting numbers out there at -- more 19 projects than numbers, really, except I'm trying to show 20 what I -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I understand. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- believe on the numbers. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I'm all for that. 24 I'm just not sure that -- that 50 is a -- 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: It may not be. 41 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm not arguing with 2 you. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm not, either. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Just trying to have a 5 conversation here, but I just don't think $50,000 is going 6 to come anywhere near, unless we're going to put off some 7 people for another year. Which is -- you know, if that's 8 what y'all want to do. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Refresh my memory. 10 Maybe everybody's -- what are we getting out of this year on 11 the amount that we budgeted? What all are we going to get 12 accomplished? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not much. You're 14 seeing it happen down there right now. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're getting the Juvenile 16 Probation office moved in. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. And 18 they are probably -- 85 percent finished? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Seventy. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seventy-five. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: How much was budgeted for 22 that? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sixty. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sixty. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: You'll have money left over. 42 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: May have a little left over. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Four or five dollars, 3 maybe. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Quite a bit. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, we're getting 6 design and Juvenile Probation; that's about it this year? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: I think we'll be able to 9 finish that for about $30,000, at the rate we're going right 10 now. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I think you're 12 going to come in way under, actually. 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: Way under on that particular 14 office. I -- the way it looks right now. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, good. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's looking very good. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is the trustees idea working 18 out effectively? 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. In my 20 opinion, working out very well. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They look like a bunch 22 of zebras down there, and even -- I mean, they're kind of 23 doing some finish work, a little bit of finish work right 24 now. Doing a good job, actually. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 43 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, anyway, that is 2 my thoughts. Fifty -- 50 is not going to do a whole lot 3 down there, and it's definitely not going to fix any windows 4 up here. Just my opinion. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it's the kind of thing 6 where, in my opinion, you got to keep chipping away at it 7 every year. Not the downstairs; it would be nice to get 8 that done. But the -- you know, the things in the 9 courthouse that need fixing; the floors, the doors, the 10 windows. Just got to do a little of that every year or it 11 just keeps stacking up until you're faced with a huge number 12 if you don't chip away at it every year. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're looking at kind of 14 a 5-year plan, something like that? Five, six, seven years? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There is one last item 17 that I would like to mention, and that is, I think we all 18 have seen the last few budget amendment cycles during court 19 sessions; that it was almost a godsend that we had that 20 Radio money. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It was a godsend. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I think we really 23 have to look at that budget very carefully as we go through 24 it to make sure we've got -- 'cause I think the Sheriff's 25 done a great job of getting the right people in the right 44 1 places, trying to get the right money in the right accounts 2 and all that sort of thing, but that all sort of should be 3 done now is -- is my point. And that -- I would not expect 4 to see all the budget amendments that we saw last year -- 5 transpire this past year, next year. And so, I think it's 6 going to just take a real -- we need to take a real hard 7 look and see where we had to do major budget amendments 8 several times, and then we tapped that Radio fund. I'm 9 afraid that what could happen is -- is that if that has 10 worked its way into the budget and is sort of there, that, 11 you know, all of a sudden we're going to see a big budget 12 increase in the Sheriff's Department due to the fact that 13 those spending habits are there. So, I'm just saying, we're 14 going to -- I'm going to look at that very carefully, 'cause 15 I think it's time now to make it like -- like good 16 bookkeeping, too. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think the major budget 18 amendments really are coming out of the jail, as opposed to 19 the Sheriff's Department. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: And that's the expense of 22 housing more prisoners. You know, when you're housing 15 to 23 20 percent more prisoners than you anticipated, yes, the 24 revenues are nice, but the revenue goes into the general 25 surplus and you're stuck with a budget line item based on 15 45 1 to 20 percent fewer prisoners than you're doing. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: And so the two don't match 4 up. The government accounting doesn't allow to you take 5 money as revenue during the year and put it into that line 6 item and use it. It has to go into an -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- allocated fund. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's exactly my 10 point, is that we -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Up until now, you know, we've 12 never had that experience of having as large an inmate 13 population, so we didn't know -- I mean, we really didn't 14 know how to budget for the jail. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: For last year. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I'm not being 18 critical of anybody when I say that. I just say that now I 19 think those -- we should have enough experience to come up 20 with a pretty good budget this year, that we -- we can all 21 understand and -- and be able to live with without too many 22 major amendments. We're all -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, based on 24 our -- based on the cost-of-living index that keeps going up 25 year after year, are we charging a sufficient per diem rate 46 1 for housing prisoners? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the Sheriff and I have 3 talked about that subject two or three months ago, and we're 4 keeping up with fully costed analysis of what it does cost 5 us per day, and we're -- I think we have room to go up on 6 that. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: What do we make now, $38 a 8 day? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $35. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: $35, I believe. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: I thought we went up to $37 12 or $38. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know when -- well, 14 we -- maybe we did. I was thinking we were still at $35. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I thought -- pretty sure we 16 went up, or maybe -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Maybe it was some contract. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- we were planning on going 19 up. Maybe that's what it was. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And 40 was the number. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we ought to be 22 looking at at least $40. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The reason I asked 24 Tommy is, in the June issue of the Fiscal Notes that come 25 out of the Controller's office, there's a whole bunch of 47 1 charts here, and she's indicating that a change in C.P.I. in 2 Texas is 3.9 percent over last year. That's why I asked, 3 are we keeping up. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it costing per 5 person for -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It's probably 37 -- 36, 37. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, we're barely breaking 8 even? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, we're just barely -- I 10 think we could easily stand an increase to $40 or $42. If 11 we lose the prisoners as a result of that privilege -- 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Supply and demand. 13 Run up till we see a little drop. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's not worth the 15 liability to -- if we're so close to breaking even. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not at all. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nowhere close. We're not 18 really -- to make $5 a day, it's not worth doing, 'cause 19 that's just -- you have one big lawsuit and you got 20 everything you -- and we -- you know, that's -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Break-even basis. If 22 you add the cost of money in, you know, we're losing money. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That was one of the 24 things they talked about in Beaumont, was that the biggest 25 liability a county faces is the jail. 48 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's why I'd like 3 to take a look at it with the Sheriff again. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: At some point in the near to 5 midterm future, we're going to have to address the issue of 6 staffing at the Sheriff's Department. I'm talking about 7 patrol deputies. Right now, they're operating with three 8 deputies per shift and the shift commander, which means 9 they've got one car in the east, one car in the west, and 10 one car in the central. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's that -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thin patrolling. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that is very 14 thin. That's the number of slots that we have budgeted for? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. And you 16 figure it on three shifts a day. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think the slots are 18 all full now. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm not saying we can do it 20 this year, necessarily. The Sheriff's asked for four more 21 deputies, plus two C.I.D. and two records clerks, and it's 22 not that they're not needed. It's necessarily whether we 23 can afford them. That's an item we're going to have to 24 address in the next couple years, is more -- more patrol 25 officers. 49 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. With the 2 growth of our county -- I mean, that just right there is the 3 picture. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sure. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They've really been 6 understaffed for a number of years, and then they -- just 7 the last three or four years of growth. I -- I've gotten 8 out there and ridden with them; it's not a pretty sight. 9 It's scary. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You hope that the tax 11 base has grown enough that there would be enough additional 12 general fund revenue to cover some of that. Of course, we 13 have some estimates now on what that tax base growth will be 14 like. I think we're going to see a lot more in the next 15 couple years, tax-based growth. We have major businesses 16 coming in. We're going to see more population growth. And, 17 not all of it's tax-based. Even at the same rates, that's 18 where we hope the additional revenues come from to fund 19 additional services, like law enforcement. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm going to bring up the 21 topic that nobody wants to touch on, but it is one -- maybe 22 we'll get census going in so we know what we're looking for. 23 Is there anybody willing to contemplate a tax increase? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's a big one. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To my mind, no. I think 50 1 that the community right now is based -- primarily because 2 of the school -- what K.I.S.D. has done. I just don't see 3 how the community would accept it, especially with the -- 4 we've had a growth in value, additional revenues coming in, 5 and the way they've gone up on the school taxes, I don't see 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would say, 8 certainly, going in, the position is no, unless we uncover 9 something that we're not aware of at this point, a need for 10 revenues. I would say no. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd rather us try not 12 to do that. I think Jonathan's right. We need to consider 13 K.I.S.D., plus their valuations have gone up, and 14 tremendously in some areas, and property owners. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I approached this list 16 with that philosophy. We need to hold the tax rate at what 17 it is today. But when we listen to Tommy talk about the 18 fact that for the last two years we've paid for projects out 19 of Road and Bridge, and we can't do that any more, that 20 shift -- as a matter of fact, we were able to shift tax -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- tax back into Road and 23 Bridge in order to keep them at a -- at a comfortable 24 reserve there. So, we -- that's -- that's the approach I 25 took when I prepared this memo, and that's why you don't see 51 1 any more on there than -- than you do. We started the 2 program two years ago with the Sheriff's cars, which I think 3 is essential, but we're also seeing the bite of that program 4 this year, where we're paying for leases on 18 full cars; we 5 will in the next fiscal year, but that's a program that I 6 think, over the next two or three years, will start to 7 ratchet down a little bit, because as programs come off of 8 the -- cars come off of the three-year cycle, we can buy 9 them for a buck. Then we may put some of those out on the 10 road; we may replace the older cars, if we find we don't 11 need to continue the six a year. But, those kinds of 12 things -- the salary increases last year that the employees 13 deserved and earned and we gave them to them, but that 14 perpetuates. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, even though the fact that 17 someone will say, well, you've got a million dollars more in 18 tax revenue than you did in the year you took over, well, 19 we've undertaken some necessary and absolutely essential 20 steps that eat into that on an annual basis. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, when you 22 talked to Bob Henderson about the -- developed this number 23 of $120,000 payback on the Sheriff's system based on 20 24 years, what is it going to be if we based it on five to 25 seven? 52 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Substantially more. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that -- that -- that 3 does bring up a point. The -- the retirement of that debt, 4 that -- that will be -- that's an automatic increase in the 5 tax revenue. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we finance the Sheriff's 7 thing. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Because it's a legal debt and 9 you have to -- you have to levy a tax for that purpose. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, to keep it the same, 11 we have to reduce taxes somewhere else. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. If you -- if you 13 don't -- if you don't levy a tax specifically for the 14 retirement of that debt. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It seems like, to 16 me -- and, to me, something like a communications system, 17 that we ought to take a moment, if we can -- and I realize 18 money is money, so not to save money, but there should be 19 some kind of lease system out there that -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Our RFP includes a lease -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- component to it. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's probably got some 24 purchase and probably some lease. That's probably the way 25 that should work, but the major portion should be in the 53 1 lease arrangement, where the equipment gets upgraded 2 automatically so you don't end up with this 20-year-old 3 equipment that actually was obsolete ten years ago. So, 4 that doesn't negate the expense, and you got to pay for that 5 with money, but -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: But it doesn't become 7 -- it doesn't raise the tax that way if we lease it. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the tax rate -- the 9 only difference is that -- that the tax rate that applies to 10 the retirement of a legal debt -- I'm talking about a bonded 11 debt -- is protected from any rollback problems. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: So, if you have -- you have 14 room to -- to up your M & O tax rate by the amount of the 15 tax that applies to retirement of a debt, without any 16 rollback consequences. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I understand. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: So, I mean, that -- that 19 doesn't really make a lot of sense, but in reality, it -- 20 it's -- there's an incentive for municipalities, a lot of 21 money -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- to operate on. Because 24 if -- if you -- if you have a bond, if you -- or any kind of 25 legal debt, that -- that rate is never subject to a 54 1 rollback. However, if you -- if you opt to pay -- to pay 2 off an indebtedness through your M & O rate, then it is. It 3 is subject to rollback calculation. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's good to know. Good to 5 keep in mind. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Final comment I have, 7 under general discussion on the Ag Barn renovation, 8 depending on what the Court decides -- and, to me, that's an 9 area that would maybe warrant a bond issue, which -- and 10 that -- you know, then put it before the public and if they 11 want what is essentially a tax increase, but it's voted on 12 by the public, because it depends on what that decision is. 13 There's no way we can do it without money coming from 14 somewhere. We're talking about a lot, whether it's a -- you 15 know, hopefully be some kind of a mix of, you know, bond, 16 grant, gift, something. But -- 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Roll back into that, 18 you're right. That's why I reference the study to help us 19 in that connection, 'cause -- to determine where those bucks 20 are. We may not want to fund that, special service. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Back to your question 22 about -- about tax rate, I'm in no way advocating a tax 23 increase, but there is one -- one question I'd like to ask, 24 is that who-all -- who believes that -- that land base or 25 parking base in Kerr County will always remain at the level 55 1 they are now, and, history does not prove that out. And, if 2 we see -- I know Commissioner Baldwin will remember this, 3 but in 19 -- I think it was '89 -- '88 or '89. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Lowered it. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: The Court -- prior to that, 6 they had huge increases in property values, and they -- 7 correspondingly, each year they -- they lowered the tax 8 rate. Well, what happened in '87 and '88 was that those 9 high values started in a down direction. Then what 10 happened, those lower -- lower values and lower rates 11 collided, and they didn't have a lot of money. In fact, 12 they had a very difficult time funding the budget. And, my 13 first year here was in 1990, and I can remember the 14 heartburn that was going on in that year in trying -- trying 15 to balance the budget. So, I think what I'm trying to say 16 is that you need to be careful and -- when you're thinking 17 about the future. I think that -- that if you main -- if 18 you maintained a constant tax rate, then you definitely want 19 to be careful about hanging onto enough surplus, because if 20 you -- if you don't -- if you don't have the surplus and 21 valuations go down, then -- then you have cash flow 22 problems. And then -- then you're faced with either trying 23 to make huge budget cuts or raising taxes a whole -- you 24 know, a great amount at one time. That's just my 25 experience. I think Commissioner Baldwin remembers. 56 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But shouldn't that be 3 a year-to-year evaluation? Because I don't think there's 4 any way in the world that valuations have gone down since 5 last year. I mean -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I'm talking about in the 7 future. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah, but what 9 I'm saying is you look at -- if valuations are going up, 10 then you try to maintain the same tax rate. If valuations 11 are headed down, that's the time you've really got to look 12 very seriously at a tax increase just to stay at the same 13 level. And, all I'm saying is -- is that I think you're 14 right, that that's something you should evaluate every year. 15 But, if valuations are going up, as they definitely are 16 now -- I mean, my phone rings about three times a week, 17 somebody wanting me to help them with the Appraisal 18 District. As long as that's on an upward trend, then I 19 think the strategy is to try to hold the tax rate constant 20 and get the budget growth out of the increased valuation, 21 because you got to provide more services, 'cause you got 22 more population. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I agree with that, but I 24 guess my conservative nature is taking over here. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, no, it's 57 1 history. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's going to come 4 down. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: At some point, it 6 will. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But I think that we're 8 going to be able to see that. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And have a budget year 11 to see it and plan for it and work through it. Just -- we 12 don't need to lower the rate. Believe me, we do not need to 13 lower the rate like we did in '87 or whatever it was. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: If there's anything that 15 might -- emphasize the word -- might mitigate against that, 16 it's that -- it's the retail businesses that are coming in, 17 because Lowe's and Home Depot and Pier I, they're going to 18 pay their property tax. So, we're going to have those 19 whether the valuation goes down or not. But, we have a 20 little more offshoot from that sort of significant retail 21 commercial presence in Kerr County than we did in '88 or 22 '89, where there really wasn't that much. The major 23 commercial operation was H.E.B. or something like that. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We also have, with Lowe's 25 or Home Depot, these bigger, you know, sale -- retail 58 1 outfits, the sales tax revenues are going to go up. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They're pulling in 4 regionally a lot more than Kerrville's ever been -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They just cover up for 6 Mooney, though. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I was going to say, 8 on the minor side, you got Mooney. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, Mooney's a hit to the 10 economy, but in one sense, Mooney's not that big a hit to 11 us. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: They don't pay property tax 14 since they're on City/County owned property. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: A sweet deal. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: And the sales, they don't pay 17 sales tax locally on their aircraft, because they pay sales 18 tax where the aircraft are delivered, so Mooney's a huge 19 loss to Kerr County, if that happens, because of the people 20 who work there, the salaries. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ancillary. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The rollover of the 24 salaries. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: When they went before City 59 1 Council, the Lowe's guy stood up and said, we predict 2 $23 million in sales the first year. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How would you -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But, you know, looking 5 at this also, if you look at -- and I'm not sure what it is 6 today, but in years past, the majority of employees out at 7 Mooney were Gillespie County people. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Majority? 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: About 55,000, I think. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: About 55,000? So, 12 you -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, based on the 14 current property valuations, a penny generates what, about 15 $200,000? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that's right. Yeah, 17 slightly over $200,000. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not worth the 19 heartburn. 20 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. Tommy's right to 22 keep an open mind about it. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You bet. You bet. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anybody else have anything? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's a good 60 1 point that Buster just made, is that -- that we should 2 not -- we probably don't want to give an aura out of this 3 room that we would never consider raising taxes. That's not 4 what we're saying. I think we cannot raise taxes this year, 5 going in. We'll have to see, but -- but that's not 6 something that's sacrosanct by a long shot. And, if it 7 looked like the valuation was going down to the point that 8 we end up in a crunch, all in favor, raise your right hand, 9 and I do it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, but the community's 11 changing, also. And the community -- you know, I mean, I'm 12 being hit all the time; people want more and more services 13 from the County, and at some point, you know, there may have 14 to be a tax increase. Hopefully it's not this year or next 15 year or any time real, real soon, but if we're going to 16 continue to supply additional services, at some point you 17 can't do it with the same -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're touching on the 19 subject this afternoon a little earlier on solid waste 20 enforcement. You know, a county the size of ours and 21 quality of life that everybody expects in a place like Kerr 22 County, I can probably say right now, we probably ought to 23 have somebody full-time chasing after -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would agree with 25 that. 61 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that's a service 2 we don't offer on a full-time basis. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And one we started on 4 grant funds, which we're going to have to fund. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And so it's those kind 6 of things that, as the population growth -- you're right. 7 People keep saying, I expect more out of the County. We've 8 got to look at the funds to do that. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'll probably use the 10 solid waste program -- as a Commissioner, I'd probably use 11 the solid waste program as much as anything in the system. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. If it were -- 13 if it were more available, I'd use it more often. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Me too. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I had dinner this 16 Saturday night -- Sunday night with a bunch of the old 17 Germans in Comfort, and they love the Solid Waste guy. They 18 think he's the greatest thing they have in the county. 19 They'd rather get rid of everybody else, increase the staff, 20 'cause they see that he does something. He may be slow, but 21 he gets it done. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They want it neat. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Talking about Eddie? 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. Anybody -- they're 25 just glad to be able to get someone to respond and at least 62 1 try to find out who's dumping trash on the property. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else anyone wants to 3 throw out for the good of the community? 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we added one to 5 your list -- or I did. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Solid waste? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Water. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think that's an excellent 9 one. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think we have the 11 Solid Waste grant program for another year, don't we? At 12 least? 13 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That worked out -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We do, or you don't 16 know? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have put -- have put money 19 in the budget to fund it. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: We're out this year. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: The grant, 'cause this is 22 money that you have to have to continue to fund it. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'd better, after 24 that. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take a break and come 63 1 back at 3 o'clock. 2 (Discussion off the record.) 3 (Recess taken from 2:50 p.m. to 3:00 p.m.) 4 - - - - - - - - - - 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's reconvene this 6 workshop session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. 7 Items set for 3 o'clock begins with Commissioners Court, 8 which is Tab 2 in your book. I would point out that, in 9 preparing this budget, I reduced Professional Services from 10 $10,000 to -- from $15,000 to $10,000, based on the actual 11 usage, which I think is still -- I'm comfortable with, I 12 guess. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fred, would you give 14 the number? I'm still not there. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's Tab 2. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, but I mean 17 the -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Professional Services, 486. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Second page, top. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Everything else is pretty 22 much the same as it was. The redistricting, of course, was 23 a one-time expense, or should be one. I put $500 in 24 redistricting, just in case we had any carry over. We may 25 not want to do that. We may just want to delete that and 64 1 take it out of Contingency or Miscellaneous or something. 2 Other than that, it's pretty much straightforward, as it was 3 last year. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I see where we've got 5 Notices. Notices up there, that needs to be -- 'cause it -- 6 we kept having to -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Notices took a substantial 8 increase. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Conferences. That -- 10 that number is down. I guess that's about 700-some-odd 11 dollars for each Commissioner. We should be able to get two 12 trips out of that, which is enough to get our continuing 13 education. We can't do it with one trip, apparently; at 14 least nobody's designed a conference yet where you can -- 15 could do it all in one trip, so it's a minimum two-trip 16 deal. But, it like looks like that will cover it this year, 17 and should do it next year. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where's the conference 19 this year? Corpus Christi? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Next year. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Abilene. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, Abilene. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's where it is. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes? 25 MS. SOVIL: You might want to consider that 65 1 the reason it's down this year and last year is Commissioner 2 Baldwin did not use any travel money. He used South Texas, 3 and historically we've put in 36, which is $900 a piece. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good point. 6 MS. SOVIL: It does stretch. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: What do y'all want to do? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Take $500 out of 9 Redistricting and put $3,600. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Make Redistricting zero 11 and -- and put Conferences up to $3,600? I don't have any 12 problem with that. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There's definitely no 14 more Redistricting after October 1. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, there might be some 16 copying charges or something like that, but our contract was 17 for $20,000. 18 MS. SOVIL: I'm sorry, but there -- there can 19 be. Especially if you -- if you're going to address the 20 problem on Upper Turtle Creek, your voters over there. 21 That -- that has to be a resubmission to the Justice 22 Department. So, it was experienced in '91 that we spent 23 money again the next year. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Put $500 back? Or -- 25 MS. SOVIL: I can get '91's budget and show 66 1 you what we spent. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just trying to figure. 3 My thinking is to -- to only -- it's an unknown, just -- I 4 don't know if there's going to be anyone that's going to do 5 a challenge to what we voted on yesterday. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: You can't plan around that. 7 I think maybe what we ought to -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $500? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I've got it tapped at $500. 10 We can just leave it like it is and go ahead and raise 11 Conferences up to $3,600. We're talking about $674. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we had some 13 decrease in our part-time, and I'm assuming that that's 14 because of the South Texas thing? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. And also, again, we 16 have lowered Redistricting from 22,5 to 500, so we picked up 17 $22,000 there. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There is no bonding 19 requirement for next year? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. It will be the following 21 fiscal year when the bonds would be required. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 23 MS. SOVIL: I might suggest you put some 24 money into machine repairs. There are four computers that 25 need -- may need some kind of repair, and it was always kind 67 1 of a contingency, maybe, if we had to have repairs. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We have Computer 3 Maintenance, though, over on the next page, 563. We've got 4 Computer Maintenance for $500. Isn't that it? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be it. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For computers. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Machine Repair was not for 8 computers; it was something else. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: We don't have any more, do 10 we? 11 MS. SOVIL: Well, the typewriter and stuff 12 like that. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: So it's okay. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Is there a 15 Professional Services line anywhere in the Commissioners 16 Court? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. There's an Audit line 18 under Nondepartmental. That's that audit. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think we need to 20 come -- whether or not we want to have any professional 21 services help with respect to Hill Country Youth Exhibit 22 Center funding, we need to come to grips with it, yes or no, 23 theoretically. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think we need to 25 decide -- I mean, when we talk about what we're going to do 68 1 out there, I mean, if we're just going to do repairs, then 2 we don't need professional services. If we're going to try 3 to do a long-term solution, maybe we do. If we don't, I 4 don't know. I mean, it's kind of -- you know, I think 5 before you do that, we just need to have a workshop before 6 we -- you know, to really look at what the Court, as a 7 whole, on that facility -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We're going to have a 9 workshop. Maybe we'll get a better feel for it. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could always come back 11 to that Professional Services. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Professional Services 13 would be attorneys and engineers and all of those kinds of 14 things, Bill? 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What I was 16 specifically referencing was the utilization of some 17 agencies like U.T.S.A. to help us develop a funding strategy 18 for the grants -- where are the grants? Where are the 19 gifts? All that stuff that needs to fall into place. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And this $10,000 21 that's in here is because of some lawsuits and -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One thing and another. 24 Usually attorneys? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If we didn't reduce 69 1 it, as Fred is proposing, we could probably cover it, but 2 Fred's proposing a reduction. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think we can come 4 back and revisit that. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: After a workshop. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: After the workshop. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If we feel like we 9 need to plug it in, we can if we need to. Let's go with a 10 reduction for now and -- 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No Capital Outlay? No 12 Contingency? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Contingency, we moved to 14 Nondepartmental. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Capital Outlay, I don't know. 17 Does anyone -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't want a computer. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We don't. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Everybody else has got one. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My chair is working 22 right now. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, except you got 24 the bad one. I saw two there. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thanks. 70 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. As long as we're on 3 the front part of the book, let's do County Judge, which is 4 Tab Number 1. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Why are you one and 6 we're two? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I didn't put it together. 8 Don't ask me. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, Thea. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Essentially, it's the same as 11 it was before. I've upped the postage and telephone, 12 conference dues, and subs a little bit. That's really it. 13 About -- actually less than it was last year. So -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You can get your hours 15 on that travel? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I've got another 17 seminar plugged into the County Court at Law, which is a 18 probate seminar, which counts. But the State pays for me to 19 go to one TAC conference a year. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which is sufficient to get my 22 hours in that, so I can get by with those. Let's do County 23 Court, which is also under Tab 1 in the books, and it is 24 essentially the same as it was last time. Court-appointed 25 attorney, which is 4402, is always dicey, but it looks like 71 1 we'll have enough this year. We should be all right for 2 next year. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 4 MS. SOVIL: May I make a suggestion on the 5 County Court budget? You might want to consider a computer 6 for the courtroom for your juvenile hearings and stuff. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't see why. For what 8 purpose? 9 MS. SOVIL: Well, since they're all going to 10 be plugged into the system, they could do their judgments 11 and stuff on the computer like they do in the other 12 courtrooms. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Most of them come 14 pre-prepared, so it's okay. 15 MS. SOVIL: Just a consideration. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Questions about that one? 17 Let's see. I'm trying to avoid having to flip back and 18 forth through the book, guys. Nondepartmental is also under 19 Tab 2. Let's do that one. On this one, the big change is 20 Workmen's Compensation. As opposed to the 46 that's in 21 there, I think it's more like 111, isn't it, Tommy? 22 Workmen's comp premium? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: I'd have to research that. 24 It's 40 percent. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Forty percent increase over 72 1 46? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Well, that will be a 4 higher number, anyway. 5 MR. TOMLINSON: It is a higher number. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: $19,000 more. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Nineteen, 20,000 there, 8 approximately. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I notice that -- 10 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll get the bill out and 11 look and see. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I notice that we moved 13 the Information Systems Specialist to Nondepartmental, which 14 is where it ought to be. And, I would assume -- have FICA 15 and all been updated for that yet in this -- in 16 Nondepartmental? 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're not anticipating any 20 major Capital Outlay under the Nondepartmental? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I can't think of any. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's go back up to 23 that Information Specialist. What is the difference between 24 that person and the System Administrator? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Larry? System administration 73 1 is what Tommy does with the mainframe, and the interface 2 with Software Group. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. And he thought 4 we wanted to do that one more year, at least? Even if we 5 did -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I'm still involved -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We're in a training 8 situation with him. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So there's a good 11 possibility that the System Administrator will drop out of 12 sight next year? Okay. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: See, it's down significantly 14 over previous years. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would like to make 16 sure -- there's two things to avoid budget amendments, and I 17 suspect they come under here, and they may already be 18 covered somewhere. But, you know, we did a budget amendment 19 for the portable toilets, picked that back up again and we 20 put it -- we took it out of -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Contingency. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- Contingency. That 23 really ought to be in non -- ought to be in Parks, probably, 24 but I put it here to make sure that we addressed it 25 somewhere. 74 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is $2,500 in the Parks 2 budget for in the park. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, you know, if that covers 5 it -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It should cover it. 7 That should cover it. That's where we'll plan on doing 8 that. I just wanted to make sure it didn't fall through the 9 cracks. The other thing is -- and this probably does go 10 here under Computer or something -- is the -- I suspect next 11 year we're going to want another 180 bucks for the 12 subscription to the salary -- TAC salary database which we 13 just did as a budget amendment. That needs to be covered 14 somewhere, and then if Commissioner Baldwin is -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you know where that -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- successful at 17 getting it for free, then we'll put the $200 back somewhere 18 else. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: That ought to go in 20 Commissioners Court. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Think so? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think so. Where we have 24 Books, Publications, and Dues, Line Item 315. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Make that $250 instead 75 1 of -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What did you call 4 that? The -- some kind of study? 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Salary survey. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's the TAC salary 7 survey database. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a Stan Reid 9 program? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hmm? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did Stan Reid do that? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, they contracted 13 out to the Waters Consulting firm. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, that's right. 15 That's right. He was doing something. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: The item I'll call to your 17 attention is 401, Autopsies and Inquests. We've increased 18 that 43,000 to $55,000. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It was low, yeah. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's just the costs have gone 21 up. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: People keep dying. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does that include the 24 doctor in Austin as well as the travel? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 76 1 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the travel is $200 3 one way? And the autopsy itself is -- the doctor is $1,500 4 or something like that? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: The autopsy is $1,500. I 6 think the travel is $300 now, round-trip. 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Seems like close to $300. I 8 don't remember exactly what it is. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anybody -- anything else on 10 that anyone has a question about? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What is telephone, just 12 -- telephone computer and telephone access fee? What's the 13 difference? 14 MR. TOMLINSON: That -- our DSL line, that's 15 out of that, and I also have a T-1 line that goes to the 16 Sheriff's Office. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's tied into the 19 mainframe. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions on that 21 one? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On 571, Contingency, 23 we've used the Radio fund very heavily, and I see leaving it 24 the same. I think every year I've been on the Court, we 25 seem to have some pot somewhere that we tend to rob instead 77 1 of using Contingency. I don't know that any year that I've 2 been on here, that we've used less than $25,000 at -- you 3 know, being realistic. And I wish we didn't have to go into 4 that amount, but at the same time, we need to be realistic, 5 because there's always a certain number of items that are 6 unexpected or something, and we -- 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's what 8 contingency is. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- and we, historically, 10 have not held a real firm line on other department heads and 11 elected officials. In fact, most of them spend the money 12 before they come to us to ask permission. So, unless we're 13 going to change our policy a little bit, that may be a 14 little bit low, in my opinion. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They all seem to 16 depend upon the Nondepartmental Contingency fund to 17 locate funds. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My biggest concern is 19 most of them don't seem to care one way or the other if they 20 follow their budget or not. They tend to buy what they want 21 and know that we're going to find the money somewhere. 22 And -- 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see 25 in there. 24 You're talking about it should be more than 25? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's just a point -- 78 1 MR. TOMLINSON: I know I shouldn't have said 2 what I did a while ago about Capital Outlay, but I -- after 3 I answered that question, I remembered that we do have a 4 contingency in that line item for replacement of either 5 printers or monitors or PCs that happen to go out on us 6 during the year that we don't anticipate. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: It's hard to budget for, and 9 what we've done in the past is put some moneys in there for 10 that purpose. I would say 10 to -- $10,000 probably. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: As a Capital Outlay 12 contingency? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, ever since I've been on 15 here, we've taken that sort of replacement out of this 16 Contingency line item. We've had no -- not had a Capital 17 Contingency, not since I've been on the Court. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Where is it? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: We've transferred money 20 from -- from this account before. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: We've transferred money from 22 Contingency to -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: No, we've transferred money 24 from Capital Outlay. In fact, we just did it last budget -- 25 I mean last meeting. 79 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We didn't have a Capital 2 Outlay Contingency fund. We just had a Contingency Fund in 3 the Capital Outlay fund. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we were using that -- 5 we had -- we had a Capital Outlay fund. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, yeah, I 7 understand. So, part of the $85,000 that was budgeted -- 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Part of that Capital 9 Outlay -- part of that $85,000 was -- 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Was for Capital Outlay 11 contingencies. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Replacing worn-out equipment. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't recall it that way. 14 Because we didn't have anything in it the year before that. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we transferred it all 16 out. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, I mean, it doesn't 18 make that much difference. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: It doesn't matter, really. 20 Doesn't matter where you put it. Wherever we put it, 21 really, the fact remains we probably need something -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More than 25 total. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- to replace, you know, 24 old -- old equipment. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. And maybe that 80 1 ought to be called a separate accounting use so we can sort 2 of keep track of it. Maybe this should be a Capital Outlay 3 Contingency. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I would think so. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Otherwise, we've got 7 to -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we ought to reduce 9 the Contingency, because we use did Contingency line item as 10 it is now indicated. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: To replace -- 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: To replace printers that blow 13 up and monitors that go out in midstream. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then put more into 15 it, then. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Maybe then -- and 17 that's okay. And what I'm saying is that maybe, from an 18 accounting sense, it might be better for us to track how 19 much are we spending for Capital Outlay in the contingencies 20 to replace equipment versus the rest of the contingency 21 funds, which are really other things. I'm just saying maybe 22 we need to split that into -- 23 MR. TOMLINSON: The way we've treated it from 24 an accounting standpoint and from a budgetary standpoint is 25 to -- is when that becomes necessary to replace it, a piece 81 1 of equipment, we will actually do a budget amendment to 2 remove the moneys from this fund -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Contingency. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: -- to the department that 5 requires the purchase. Like, if it's to my office or the -- 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So we could have it 7 all in Contingency. And maybe we just need to think about 8 having some more, was Jonathan's point, and I think Tommy's 9 point. Just -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Either that, or stick to the 11 budget better. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. Start -- but 13 for a real -- for a real equipment failure, you know, you 14 can't budget that, except right now we put it in the fund. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, the other side of it 16 is, if it's a real equipment failure, you can declare an 17 emergency, and maybe if we do what Fred's saying and don't 18 have the money in the budget, then we can go to the people 19 and say, You want us to declare an emergency to buy paper 20 clips or do whatever it is, which is about what some of the 21 departments tend to do. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: My preference would 23 be to increase Line 571. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Up to what? 82 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't know. That's 2 the next part of the topic. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What do you think 4 we've done? It sure becomes a great target, as you -- as 5 Jonathan is indicating. The department heads can look at 6 that and say, man, there's a pot of money I can go after. 7 All I've got to do is -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've been doing it 9 all year. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I'm going to stick up 12 for them. The -- the budget amendments we did are, to a 13 large extent -- I mean, Jannett came in here for a budget 14 amendment for notices, because we've been charging people 15 on -- on revisions of plats, and all of a sudden we get an 16 Attorney General opinion that says we can't, and that's 300 17 and some-odd bucks a pop. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that's legitimate, 19 sure. That's a legitimate contingency. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, you know, I -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Most of it is fairly -- 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- I don't think any of them 23 look to the Contingency line item as something that's -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The reason we take 25 shots at it is because we don't have them here, except for 83 1 Tommy. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, you know, once we 3 have -- we can have a, you know, printer or piece of 4 equipment go out. You don't have much choice but to -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. If you don't deal 6 with it -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Deal with it, you know, right 8 then. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Coming full-circle. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: I wouldn't go up more than 11 $10,000; I wouldn't take it up to more than 35. I'd be more 12 comfortable with 30, myself. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was going to stop at 14 30. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay, 30. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it's things like 17 making -- you know, when you have a printer break down, like 18 just yesterday you brought in a late bill and I asked you 19 the question, has that already been purchased, and you said 20 probably so. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes, it was. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But it has to be done, 23 and I understand that. But when they make -- when they 24 make, like, Capital Outlay purchases or just go out and buy 25 something, probably like this stove -- I mean this 84 1 refrigerator thing yesterday, and then come in and say, "You 2 guys pay for it," that's the wrong thing to do. That's not 3 a good way to run an operation. Tommy, I'm fussing at you, 4 and you have nothing to do with it. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Just 'cause you have 6 nothing to do with it is not going to stop me from fussing 7 at you. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll get to the bottom of 9 that. I don't know what happened. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I don't know. 11 Probably. I loved your answer yesterday, Tommy, "probably." 12 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I didn't know if it was 13 purchased, but I know what happened about the refrigerator. 14 It's a real interesting story. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You bet. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't want to know. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 564, on Mainframe 18 Maintenance, you spent the line this year, but you're 19 reducing it next year. Are you anticipating that nothing 20 but good happens? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, part of that is 22 maintenance last year. We prepaid some maintenance for five 23 years on -- on the new system, and so we -- we got a -- you 24 know, a really good deal on prepaying that. So, we won't 25 have that. 85 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: That's why that's that way. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else on 4 Nondepartmental? If not, let's go to Health Department, 5 which is Number -- Tab Number 19, second budget under 19. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I tell you, you could do what 7 Gillespie County used to do with their contingency. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Put the whole surplus in. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: They put the whole surplus in 10 contingency. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Are they still doing 12 it that way? I think they are. 13 MR. TOMLINSON: They did at one time, 'cause 14 they got themselves in trouble 'cause they -- when they 15 bought that furniture store out on 16. That's how they did 16 it. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Out of Contingency? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 'Cause they had their 20 entire surplus contingency in there. I think they may still 21 be doing that. Somebody -- one of those guys over there I 22 was talking about said, "Oh, yeah, we always take all the 23 surplus, put it in Contingency. Then we can spend it when 24 we need it." 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: On the health -- on the 86 1 Health Department budget, the EMS contract, 210, and First 2 Responder Coordinator, 501, are the numbers which were 3 provided to us by Ron Patterson when he came over as part of 4 the sunset workshops. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: EMS contract, $11,300? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. And First Responder 7 Coordinator is $9,675. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Notice that the 9 U.G.R.A. contract is zero. We'll find out some more about 10 that after the meeting tomorrow, 'cause our going-in 11 position is -- is that we're going to know what the real 12 cost of the O.S.S.F. program is, and then give us a fee 13 schedule that pays for it. And, that's outlined under the 14 new Chapter 285, as Ken Graber covered down in Beaumont. If 15 it's real cost, then it ought to be paid for by fees, and 16 that's a spreadsheet exercise to hold our feet to the fire. 17 If they can't build a spreadsheet to analyze that, I'll 18 build it for them, 'cause its very easy; then you can plug 19 in various -- or in each category, you know, from new 20 permits and renewals and inspections and property transfers 21 and all of that, then we can play with those until the 22 bottom line is met. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Help me understand 24 here. We -- at one time we were sending over $45,000 to 25 U.G.R.A., and then we dropped it to 30, and then, through 87 1 our contract -- or through an agreement this year, it 2 drops -- this next year, it drops down to zero. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, it's a new 5 contract. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: The agreement that we're 7 currently operating on expires at the end of this fiscal 8 year. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And it just goes to 10 zero. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: There are no -- no funds 12 required during future fiscal years. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And so what do you 14 think that you would hear tomorrow? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That they don't want 16 to take the political heat for the rise in fees that that 17 would -- that cost will cause. But, you know, there's -- 18 that's the way it should be. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Then they're going to 20 say, "Well, we've got to take this 30; we've got to have the 21 30." Then you're going to bring the 30 back over here for 22 us to decide, or -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's not -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Absolutely. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that how it's going 88 1 to work? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll bring a proposal back 3 either for us to kick in some and raise the fees, or us to 4 raise the fees to cover the whole nut. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The fees -- what we 6 want from them is a fee structure that will cover all of the 7 costs that they identify. And they have reduced the cost -- 8 I've got it verbally that they have, quote, reduced the cost 9 figures that they first gave us several months ago. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be prepared for the 11 argument which you're sure to get, which is that that 12 reduction of costs has gone against the amount that they 13 claim they have subsidized the program, which was, the last 14 time I heard, something in the range of $35,000 to $40,000. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There is a new 16 contract, though. A deal is a deal. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Be prepared for that 18 argument, 'cause it's coming. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. I know 20 that, and we're going to probably get some argument on that. 21 But, I think -- and T.N.R.C.C. stands behind us on this -- 22 whatever those costs are should be able to be covered by 23 fees. And I think they can. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm here to say I 25 agree. 89 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree, and good 2 luck. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See you next week for 4 $30,000. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't -- I think the 6 new day dawned when -- when we first announced that to them, 7 and I think that's the reason we reduced it. 8 (Discussion off the record.) 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The First Responder 10 expenses, I'm not real sure what that is. I had invited 11 Kyle to come over and visit with us just a moment. He's our 12 new guy, and there has been through the years -- I'm kind of 13 flying by the seat of my pants here. Through the years, the 14 County has helped obtain some grants to purchase some 15 things, and then the County just outright has purchased some 16 things, some beepers and I don't know what-all. Do you 17 know, Thea, what-all? 18 MS. SOVIL: Those -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: That's all I know. There was 20 some -- 21 MS. SOVIL: Some kind of -- 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Some medical device that he 23 thought -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Defibrillators. I 25 think that was grant -- that was some grant money. 90 1 MS. SOVIL: We had to kick in some money, I 2 think, to kick in the grant. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, that's probably 4 true. But this guy has almost -- Tommy's office provided me 5 with a sheet recently of the -- all the things that the 6 County has purchased, and we're talking about 150,000 bucks 7 through the last few years. And, we couldn't put our hands 8 on hardly any of those items. So, this new guy -- I've been 9 with him numerous times and kind of urged him along here 10 to -- and he's found about 95 percent of it. He almost has 11 everything found and identified and -- and all; he's doing 12 an excellent job. But he's fixing to crank up the First 13 Responder program bigger and better than anything we've ever 14 seen around here. He's going to take the program back to 15 Step 1 to -- he already has, like, 15 people interested in 16 taking the low-level E.M.T. or -- I'm not sure what all 17 that's about. I think it's E.M.T., and he's got, like, 15 18 people ready to come in and do that. So, bottom line is, 19 there may be a reason for First Responder expenses. And I 20 just -- I don't know for sure, but I would -- if he's going 21 to really crank up our program, start running our program 22 the way that we want it run, I would think that there would 23 be some expenses. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Again, this is just what Ron 25 Patterson sent over. I mean, if you want to put some 91 1 dollars in there for expenses, fine. It's irrelevant to me. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's kind of our 3 -- kind of our baby, you know, in a way. I mean, I don't 4 know where Ron would come up with numbers in something like 5 that. It's something that we -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you want $200? $100? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I prefer two. 8 But I -- again, I don't have -- you know, I just don't know. 9 I feel sure that he's going to -- I feel sure he's going to 10 do something. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Two hundred, that will 12 cover some postage or whatever. I think $200 is fair. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Talking about 3502? 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a nitpick on 15 this page, and that is I suspect this is from olden times, 16 but it still says Health Department. We don't have a Health 17 Department. Shouldn't that -- can't we change that to 18 something like "Health and Emergency Services" or something? 19 Or -- something that's little more descriptive. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't we do that? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I'll change it. Health -- 22 Health and Emergency Services. All of these line items with 23 zeros will be gone. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was going to bring that 25 up earlier, but I thought I'm the one that brought it up 92 1 last year. I didn't want to do it again. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Next on the 3 schedule is the volunteer fire departments, which is 21 -- 4 which is the second budget in 21. We're talking about 5 volunteer fire departments, and all that's reflected her is 6 what we gave them last year. I will point out that the City 7 fire contract has gone up to $100,000 from $75,000. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have a proposal for 9 the volunteer fire departments. I know that, over time, 10 these numbers sort of grew like a dirt dauber's nest; a 11 little bit added on here, little bit added on there, and 12 then across-the-board added a little bit, and so we've ended 13 up with quite a spread in the amount of support, and with 14 no -- from what I can find, no real rational basis for doing 15 so. And, in fact, in speaking with the -- our erstwhile 16 Executive Assistant about how those numbers were developed 17 over time, she had a very good input -- Thea had a very good 18 input, and one that I support. And I think we added this 19 up, and I think it came out seventy -- 20 MS. SOVIL: Three. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 73,8 was the total -- 22 73,800 bucks was the total that we have for the seven 23 departments. I would like to see us, perhaps -- and I throw 24 this out for consideration -- raise that total amount from 25 73,8 to 77,000, and divide by seven, funding all equally. 93 1 Which means that two departments, one in my precinct, one 2 in -- in Turtle Creek -- that's yours, isn't it, Buster? 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Would go down. But 5 everybody would get $11,000. And, I think that's fair. 6 Because I know, for example, in the case of Ingram Fire 7 Department, they're awash in cash. Some of the -- some of 8 the less well-funded -- well, less funded out of our pot -- 9 fire departments like Elm Pass could use the money. They 10 need equipment, I think. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: C.P. needs it, too. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. And I think it 13 would be fair to do that, and to raise Comfort and all those 14 that are below that level, and pay everybody the same thing. 15 Thoughts? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Ingram lowers to 11 17 also? 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, everybody gets 19 11. Then, from year to year, as we allocate whatever we can 20 to volunteer fire departments -- 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Uniform. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- we do it uniformly. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I like that idea. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's simple. That's the 25 plus of it I see, is that it's very simple. The down side 94 1 is, I think that there really is -- I mean, there's a -- 2 there are different needs for them from the standpoint of 3 materials and -- and service that they're providing. I 4 mean, some of them, the -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But there's also -- 6 let me interject that there is also -- they are funded very 7 differently. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Ingram has a fire 10 district. Hunt, for example, has probably got all the cash 11 they need. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They have -- all those 13 rich people live in Hunt. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we just don't 15 know. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We don't know. 17 Well -- and we really don't. And all I'm saying is -- is 18 that, from the County's point of view, I think that all of 19 the county unincorporated area should have equal support 20 from the County. Now, those people, if they can go out and 21 get -- do things or have more barbecues or whatever they do 22 to raise money, so be it, and that's to their credit, and 23 they can build up a better department. But the County, I 24 think -- I think it sounds fair to me to have us equally 25 fund all the fire departments that we recognize and do 95 1 business with and have a contract with. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's much to be 3 said about our treating them all the same. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, that's 6 definitely a good idea for Ingram. I think it's -- I've 7 always thought that it was unfair that they have the fire 8 district and have County funds at the same time. You're 9 double-taxing people out there for the fire service. You're 10 lowering mine, though. That's the only one I'm -- the only 11 one that's a loser. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're getting a $25,000 13 increase for Kerrville South in the city. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: You're getting the 16 biggest increase. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the way you 18 sell it to them. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You forgot about 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, I didn't forget 22 about it. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: He was going to ignore 24 it. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wasn't going to 96 1 bring that up. Actually, Kerrville South's covered by 2 Turtle Creek. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: To some extent, it 4 is. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And right there, see, 6 another thing is -- is that they all like to say we help 7 each other, we're all interactive. And, so, it seems to me, 8 from a County point of view, that we ought to have equal 9 funding for them. That's just -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Tommy, why 11 haven't we ever done that before? I mean, there's 12 reasons -- 13 MR. TOMLINSON: I can't think of any reasons. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, you can't? All 15 right, I'll move on to the next one, then. Thea, do you -- 16 MS. SOVIL: It was that way when I got here 17 in '90. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good lord. 19 MS. SOVIL: Me and Tommy came on at the same 20 time. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Grandfather did it, so 22 it must be the way to do it? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it sort of -- I 24 think it was one of those things where the Commissioner that 25 had the budget stick one year could, you know, say, Hey, I 97 1 think old so-and-so here needs $500 more, and so-and-so 2 needs a little bit less, and -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I know that 4 Commissioner Letz' thoughts -- I know that that has been on 5 the table before. You know, how many square miles, how many 6 actual structures are in those square miles and those kinds 7 of things, how many people you're serving and all of that. 8 That is a very, very difficult -- right? 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- thing to do. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In fact, that's sort 12 of why I started to say, well, hey, is there some way we can 13 come up with numbers of square miles? But -- but the fact 14 is -- is that those that are sparsely populated and more 15 spread out may have more fuel cost than the -- you know, 16 than the ones that are -- that are bunched together. So -- 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, probably the thing 18 I like best is that the -- I guess the best reason for going 19 this route is that they all help each other. So, if you get 20 a fire -- if there's a fire in Center Point, Elm Pass is 21 there right away with -- along with Center Point, and 22 vice-versa, so that the moneys -- I mean, the equipment and 23 the use of the -- the funds are going to help everyone in 24 the county. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. 98 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Only thing I would say 2 would be, Ingram, to me, is a separate issue today; they're 3 a district out there. But, you know, Turtle Creek is 4 getting a pretty big hit. They're the only other one. I 5 mean, and I don't know how much -- it's hard, when they're 6 doing their planning, to take a reduction, but I guess you 7 can explain it so that they'll see why we're doing it this 8 way, and that Kerrville South, which certainly does help 9 that area as well -- or, I mean, the City of Kerrville, they 10 got a huge increase. But I -- it's fine with me. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I can tell you, I had 12 a fire last week in my neighborhood, which is the Turtle 13 Creek area. A transformer blew and a big cedar tree caught 14 on fire, and my son and I charged in there and put it out. 15 But, in the meantime, the neighbor had called 911, and I -- 16 I just I waited there to see if Turtle Creek was going to 17 show up and what they looked like and how they were going to 18 act and all that kind of stuff. The City of Kerrville 19 showed up in a big old pumper, I mean, a $150,000 truck out 20 there to a brush fire. So, I can honestly say the City of 21 Kerrville covers Kerrville South, 'cause I'm on the other 22 edge out there. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. $77,000, $11,000 24 each? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 99 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: If the City fire 2 contract is actually going to do that. I mean, just because 3 Ron says we want $100,000, that doesn't mean we're going to 4 give it to him. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We probably will now, 6 won't we? 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I've got a strong 8 feeling that's probably not enough. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How long have we -- 10 how long has the City fire contract been at $75,000? Did he 11 tell you? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know. It's been 13 $75,000 as long as I've been here, so a long time. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Long time. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: Last four or five years. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five years, I would 17 say. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Five. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: It started lower than that, 20 but I don't -- 21 MS. SOVIL: It was $50,000 for a while. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't recall exactly what 23 it was. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The firemen have 25 gotten some significant pay increases in a 5-year period of 100 1 time. I'm not surprised at that. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- I still think 3 we're getting off pretty cheap on all this fire protection. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree. I like your 5 proposal, Larry. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, by the way, I -- 7 in doing that contract business, I think since Comfort 8 has -- actually has an assigned area in Kerr County, right? 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Well, they have an area 10 where they're the primary respondents, but it goes out 11 through 911 and all, like -- I mean, Comfort and Center 12 Point are -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The reason -- when I 14 got to looking at the law that sets up being able to 15 contract with the volunteer fire departments, it says fire 16 departments that are within the county. That's in the 17 preamble of the statute. And so the question I -- that I 18 had was, well, can we -- is the Comfort Fire Department 19 within Kerr County? Well, if they have an area of 20 responsibility, I think we can say yes, they are. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They do. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's not where their 23 main firehouse is, but they -- they are within the county, 24 and therefore we can contract with them and we don't have to 25 do an interlocal agreement. 101 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And have the same 3 language. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's been the way it's 5 been looked at. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anything else on fire? 7 So, that appears to be what the consensus of the Court is. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let me get some 9 numbers from you. So, today, they total up $73,800? 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And to equal 12 everything out is going to go to what? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 77. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 77. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Give everybody 16 $11,000. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Well, I'm 18 definitely going to go on record as opposing dropping Turtle 19 Creek that much. Thank you. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Are you going to go on 21 record as opposing the increase to the City fire department? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I might. I'm not 23 going to roll out the cannons or anything. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Nineteen. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next one is City/County, 102 1 which is 19. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next to the last. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Again, the numbers that are 4 in there are the numbers which were provided to me by 5 Mr. Patterson. I think the library's a different -- where's 6 the library? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That poses a question 8 about their operation right up front. We're going to go 9 from a 9 -- or from 18 to 46? Particularly with the new 10 hangars coming online? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, we had -- the 12 explanation I got of this, you know, is we had the $18,000 13 because we did have the one-time $160,000 last year cost 14 right below that. That was to cover the other -- the 15 $18,000 last year was to cover the other operating expenses. 16 We still -- we are not -- they are not projecting the 17 revenues now for the T-hangars to cover all of the paving 18 costs. Those are, again, one-time costs, paving costs, 19 which is partially being done with grants. In fact, nearly 20 all of it's being done with grants, but that we have to 21 match. And I can get us a cost breakdown on that $46,000 22 from Megan. I haven't gotten it yet, but that -- that is 23 not related to anything to do with T-hangars. It's not 24 related, except for our cost share of paving, and it's not 25 related to -- it is related to the airport lighting and the 103 1 opening of the other runway for night operations, et cetera, 2 which have not been paid yet. That's what I've been told 3 verbally. I have not seen a breakdown. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought our 5 understanding that was that when the T-hangars came online, 6 one of the reasons for paying cash for the T-hangars, both 7 of those, was that when the revenue started flowing from the 8 T-hangar rental, it would be as an offset to the operational 9 budget. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's true, and it 11 will be. However, they're not booking the revenues against 12 that yet, and I don't know why. I've got to ask that 13 question. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to find that 15 out. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Recycling facility. What I 19 was told is that the cost of the -- the sales price for 20 recycled materials was down significantly, so that the sales 21 of the materials no longer covered the operational costs of 22 the facility. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's -- it's a 24 worthwhile program. Something we need to continue, I think. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The library, if no one else 104 1 has any questions on that one, is 24. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 24? I don't have 3 this budget yet, unless it came to you. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't have it. I just have 5 a number. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Well, that's 7 fine, if you have it. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which was what was given -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Should the library be 10 under the other tab? Is that -- 11 MS. SOVIL: 24. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, but, I mean, 13 should it be under this tab if it's -- it's City/County. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's -- yes. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's always been done 16 separately. Why, I don't know. We can throw it in; no 17 reason why we shouldn't move the public library under the -- 18 MS. SOVIL: 'Cause it's a separate tax. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Doesn't have to be. 20 MS. SOVIL: Oh. Well, that's the way it's 21 been. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not a separate tax. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We pay for it out of the 24 General Fund. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. It could go in the 105 1 General Fund, but City/County, if we wanted to. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do that. 3 MR. TOMLINSON: There's no legal problems 4 that I know of. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We can get rid of a page. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, trying to make 7 the book smaller. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Larry, can we go back 9 to the airport just for a second? You mentioned lights and 10 night -- open up a new runway for nighttime operations? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The short runway was 12 not open for night operations until they just finished the 13 project last week. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that -- is that the 15 I.L.S. and all of that? 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, no. That's the -- 17 that's on the main runway. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That would be part of 20 -- that's part of the TexDOT-funded -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- big thing to extend 23 that runway. They move the entrance and a bunch of other 24 things. Now, that may -- see, some of that engineering cost 25 or something may be in that $46,000 figure. 106 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Uh-huh. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have not seen -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm thinking it 4 probably is. The nighttime lights and all that -- I mean, 5 the nighttime runway lights are the only thing involved in 6 that? 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, no. There's 8 resurfacing of the runway, remarking it and putting lights 9 in it. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: But no special 11 computer operations? 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hm-mmm. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Like an I.L.S. or 14 something? 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, it's not. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Also on the airport, why, 17 in our budget, don't we show all the grants, or all the 18 expenditures on those grants? Is it just because we 19 reimburse the City and the City manages it though -- show it 20 in their -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They get the grants. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: They get the grants, so 24 the revenue and the expenditures -- 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 107 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- are out of their 2 budget? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They all show up in 4 their budget, and then what they do is they draw a line -- 5 in essence, they draw a line and say here's the shortfall in 6 their budget or whatever, and divide by two. We get half of 7 the bill, but we don't know what that -- I don't know what 8 that bill is. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we need -- all we have 10 here are numbers which were provided, again, by the City for 11 both the library and the airport and recycling. So, we 12 obviously need the details before we -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- move forward, and I've 15 been assured that that will be forthcoming before our 16 meeting next Tuesday. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It would be, I think, 18 helpful if we could get just a -- a year-end -- all these 19 capital improvements or whatever that were done. We may -- 20 people always ask what we do out there. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And they do generate 22 this. We can get a year-end total financial statement for 23 the airport operation, which is really what we're going to 24 have. Same kind of thing we ought to get from -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We can ask for it next 108 1 week. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Same kind of thing we 3 ought to have for the library. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because we don't get 6 involved in the day-to-day activity of it, and all we can 7 see is sort of the -- the very gross numbers that -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We'll get the budget. 9 It's forthcoming. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And the budget -- 11 we'll see that, and -- but I know that the way they arrive 12 at -- at what the, quote, City and County subsidize with is 13 they take budget shortfall and divide by two. But we don't 14 know what that is yet, so -- I don't know why that is. I 15 don't know why that number is in there. And I want to make 16 sure that we see the revenues from the T-hangars, because 17 that will be there for all of the next fiscal year. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just -- a lot of it 19 is just education for me, so that when people ask me, I 20 can -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Answer the question. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: -- answer the question, 23 just what we've done out there. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bill? I want to ask a 25 question of my good friend from the River Hills sector. Do 109 1 we have a -- do we have a new elevator in the library? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet. Is the 3 money stashed away? Yes, it's in there. It hasn't been put 4 in yet. We funded it, what three, four years ago? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Three years ago. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: The library is a real problem 7 for me because of the unreal devotion of library supporters 8 to the building. I mean, I use -- I've got two library 9 books and four audio books checked out from the library 10 right now, so I use the library. But, to so many, the 11 library is the building, and the building right now is about 12 300 percent over capacity. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: And I don't understand this 15 -- this affinity for that building. I mean, you talk to 16 them about building a new building or something like that, 17 and it's just as if you were saying, "Let's throw all the 18 books out in the middle of Water Street and light a fire to 19 them." 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I think that 21 the new budget is going to reflect positively on our 22 screaming and hollering about services to east and west, but 23 I don't think that's going to be in terms of putting books 24 in the facility. It's going to be putting books in a 25 bookmobile, I mean, and running it east and running it west. 110 1 And, that may prove out to be okay. We'll have to wait and 2 see, and have to get the -- get the details of what the plan 3 entails. I haven't seen it, but I know -- they told me he 4 was going to put it into the budget. So -- 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would sure hope that 6 they would run some evaluation of that before spending a lot 7 of money to do it, just to make sure that there's enough 8 usage to justify the cost. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not a lot of money. I 10 think the van is a grant they've gotten, and so it's just 11 personnel costs and operating costs of the vehicle, so it's 12 only, like, $22,000 for the first year to run a van out. I 13 mean, the suggestion I made was, let's contract with the 14 school systems in Ingram and Center Point to keep their 15 library open on Saturdays and in the summertimes, and in 16 some -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Contract that out? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: A contract where we'll pay 19 the librarian and some operating expenses, and you'll 20 operate the libraries out there for purposes of, you know, 21 public library service. But I guess they didn't like that. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think the current 23 director has a bunker mentality. He hunkers down in that 24 round building over there; he doesn't want any more 25 facilities out there, and he's only yielding to the pressure 111 1 that we've put on by saying we want services both east and 2 west. I think it's going to take the shape of, you call in 3 and order a book, and it will be on the bus that goes out. 4 I think that's how they anticipate it. Which, you know, if 5 it works and if it's done properly, it will take some of 6 the -- the traffic off of the building coming in, if it 7 works right. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do they have -- see, 9 you can also -- man, there are some great systems out there, 10 and a lot of college libraries are using them, that are 11 online systems where you -- you can look and see if a 12 particular book -- you can not only go through the index 13 online; you can see if the book is there, and in some cases 14 reserve it, or you could order it up, like -- and that 15 really -- and college libraries in particular are doing it 16 to decrease the traffic in the library. Because the 17 students, in particular, and researchers can all -- are 18 online anyway. And, of course, you wouldn't have that many 19 people online here, but eventually you might, of course. 20 It's probably a good thing to look at. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Do you have a -- have 22 they done any counts as to the number of users at the 23 library, that the library has? 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think those stats 25 are available. I could ask for them, yeah. 112 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They are. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think those -- 3 they're available. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: They are in those materials 5 that Ron Patterson handed out. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What, Fred? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're in those materials 8 that Ron handed out at the sunset workshop. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. Yes, they are. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the numbers blow 11 you away, how many people go in there a day. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It gets a lot of 13 traffic. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I'm kind of like -- 15 that building is so -- well, to me, just an example, they've 16 got that meeting room downstairs, which I guess it's used a 17 fair amount, but at the same time, it's -- there's lots of 18 meeting rooms around, too. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That could probably be 20 turned into library -- 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Library space. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Plenty of places to 23 meet. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Going back to your 25 question, Buster, what's happening in terms of their repairs 113 1 and elevator and other things that E.I.C. funded. When 2 E.I.C. gave them a bundle of cash, authorized the expense -- 3 a couple hundred thousand dollars, I think. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: $170,000, I think. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: They've run afoul of 6 A.D.A. in terms of the pecking order of what they're 7 supposed to -- what they wanted to try to do, and the A.D.A. 8 regs have really tied them up into a knot. Case-in-point, 9 part of that money was for a new roof, leaky roof. You lose 10 manuscripts down there if the water comes blowing in 11 through -- if you ever get -- rainwater comes blowing into 12 the windows, you lose manuscripts. But, the A.D.A. has 13 rearranged their priorities, so they're trying to fight 14 their way through that, and everything is kind of on hold in 15 terms of repairs. But, you'd think the elevator would have 16 been in by now, wouldn't you? 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would think, since 18 we spent County tax dollars to buy an elevator, that they 19 would put the thing in. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Hasn't been put in 21 yet. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Seems like, to me, 23 if -- at my house, if I write a check for my son's letter 24 jacket, I want the damn letter jacket. Which I have not 25 gotten, by the way, and I'm a little bit ticked off. It's 114 1 been sitting in his office for a month. I want my property. 2 It's the same thing. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't disagree. I 4 got -- the whole thing is that we're drawing interest on the 5 80 grand someplace. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What status is it, 7 related to the library -- other than letter jackets or 8 not -- is that what's the status of the -- the Schreiner 9 house, the history museum or history -- 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's nearing the 11 level of completion. That's where your elevator is. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's another sore spot for 13 me, because that building was given to the library with the 14 condition that it only be used for historical purposes, for 15 genealogy, so it takes virtually no pressure off of the main 16 library. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: It's nearing 19 completion. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know whether we're 21 being asked to pay the operating expenses on that. I've 22 told them in no uncertain words, no, but we -- like I say, 23 we haven't seen the budgets. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's such a great way to 25 expand the library over there, but we can't -- I mean, I 115 1 know there's restrictions on it. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'll tell you, we 3 might as well just keep it in the back of our head that 4 sooner or later there's going to be a -- a plan put forth, 5 probably by the Friends of the Library, as to what to do 6 with that piece of property in the middle. And, they have 7 great plans in the back of their head as to what that's all 8 about. So, just condition your -- it's out there. It's 9 coming down the pike one of these years. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: When we have our meeting next 12 Tuesday -- this is City/County, so it's relevant -- one of 13 my goals is to get the County more in the loop of what I 14 call "go, no-go" decisions. And, the airport really is a 15 good example, because we're kind of presented with, "Here's 16 the grants we want to get. Here's the grant application. 17 We've already signed it. Your cost is so much. Sign it." 18 Maybe the airport -- maybe the Advisory Board is more 19 involved in the decision, do we want to get this grant? 20 What's the overall impact of the grant? I don't know, but 21 that kind of comes to us as if it's already agreed to. And 22 if, for some reason, we say no, then we're the guys in the 23 black hats, without being involved in the situation -- in 24 the -- the time when the decision is made to go forward. 25 And, that's not -- I use the library -- I mean the airport, 116 1 because the grants that we've really committed ourselves to 2 over the next two years are some pretty high-dollar grants, 3 $350,000 between the City and County for the match. And, 4 you know, 90 percent grants are hard to turn down until you 5 start to think about coming up with $100,000. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. And, by the 7 way, I think that may be a big chunk of that budget money, 8 is in some of those grants for the next year. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. But one of the -- one 10 of my longer-term goals with the City is to get in a 11 position where we're involved with the -- what I see as the 12 "go, no-go" decisions. It would be the same thing as 13 accepting the grant from the -- the gift from the Schreiner 14 family of the history library building and things like that. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, Bill, what do 16 you say? It seems to me, with the Airport Advisory Board, 17 that they sort of get it as a fait accompli. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, no question about 19 it. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And City Council, 21 between staff and Council, what they're going to do. And 22 I'm just trying to say what the problem is. It sort of 23 works between the -- the airport between the staff and 24 Council, and they sort of get together on what they're going 25 to have to have happen. They bring it to the Airport 117 1 Advisory Board, which sort of says, okay, rubber-stamp it. 2 It goes to the Council and then we get a copy of it that 3 says, "Here's your share," and so it's agreed -- I'm 4 agreeing wholeheartedly with what you say. We don't hear 5 the discussion that goes on about the pros and cons of doing 6 something in the first place. Now, except -- the only 7 exception to that was the T-hangars. They did come to us 8 beforehand on that one. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is any portion of Megan's 10 salary paid by the operating -- operations from the airport? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably not. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't think so. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would actually be 14 surprised if the Council's not involved -- I'd be very 15 surprised if Council's involved hardly at all much more than 16 we are when it comes to that airport, I bet. My gut feeling 17 is that it's 100 percent -- 95 percent by staff. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mm-hmm, could be. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know it's obviously 20 Megan, but I don't know who else on the staff, if it's Dane 21 or -- 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: The point is, that 23 even -- that Megan or whoever has to get approval -- 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- of the Council 118 1 before it comes to us. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And what we really 4 need to have is some dialogue before it goes to either the 5 Council or us. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, Commissioner 7 Letz has fussed about this several times through the years 8 of our appointments to that board. I mean, I wouldn't know 9 them if they walked in here. And, it's my opinion that when 10 those things happen, when it gets in that process, that our 11 board members need to come in this room and report to us of 12 what's going on at that airport before they vote. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, the problem is, 14 advisory boards -- by the time it gets -- you're right, and 15 I'm not disagreeing. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, it's moving too 17 fast. It's moving too damn fast. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, that's it. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A better example is 20 library boards. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Dot Davis and -- who's 22 our other appointment? Jim Miller. By the time Dot Davis 23 and -- and Jim Miller hear about it, it's already -- it's 24 done. Sort of like us. And, what -- and I think we have to 25 get our oar in the water with the Council and say, "Hey, we 119 1 need to back up this process a little bit. We need to hear 2 about it before it goes to the Airport Advisory Board." 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's a planning issue for 4 us, a huge amount of -- $300,000; we just can't create 5 $300,000. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: See, their -- they can 7 work it into their budget planning as they do it. Staff 8 can. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm, and they do. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And they do, into 11 their budget plan. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you. We 13 need some more heads-up, and we've always said that and 14 that's always been a problem. We simply sign everything 15 that comes over here. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We've got a good opportunity 17 with Ron Patterson, I think, to change the dynamics that 18 have been presented over the old staff regime over there. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Couple of things that may 22 come up next week, the City is again taking a look at the -- 23 whether they might be interested in servicing our vehicles, 24 the Sheriff's cars and the Maintenance vehicles, so that -- 25 that may come up, whether they can do it more economically 120 1 than we're getting it done now on a regular basis on that. 2 And, also, there's been some discussions about the County 3 taking over City of Kerrville Municipal Court. In other 4 words, we would basically -- we would contract with the City 5 of Kerrville to do their municipal court. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Did you lay that on 7 Ron Patterson? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, he and have I talked 9 about it. It's preliminary. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Because I laid it on 11 Wampler a long time ago and it just never went anywhere. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ron is interested in it, 13 because it frees him of a headache, and it also frees up, 14 basically, one whole floor of the police department over 15 there; they're about to run out of space. It's something we 16 could do with a minimal amount of additional effort, because 17 we already run seven courts. Running one more twice a month 18 is not that big a deal, and it would only be on the basis 19 that, you know, they'd cover completely on the cost. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What would be the 21 nature of your proposal? Splitting the municipal court into 22 four precincts and directing the violations to the precinct? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. No, we'd have municipal 24 court downstairs in Tench's area twice a month, and the 25 J.P.'s would rotate through and they'd get additional pay 121 1 for it. And the City would reimburse us 100 percent on any 2 expenses. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Something to talk 4 about. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Kind of thing where -- you 6 know, I think that's where a lot of people in the community 7 want to see City and County going, is cooperating instead of 8 duplicating. So, I don't know if that will be on the agenda 9 next week or not, if we're -- or if we're just going to talk 10 about -- 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Half the people that come 12 into the courthouse probably need to go to municipal court 13 to start with, so I'm always pointing them in that 14 direction. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Traffic's here anyway. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: And the municipal court judge 18 doesn't go out to the jail and magistrate, he doesn't 19 respond on the weekends and at night, and one of our J.P.'s, 20 in particular, gets a little honked about covering for 21 the -- the municipal judge. And this way they pick up a 22 little extra cash. We'd probably pick up some equipment 23 reimbursement or for personnel expenses without really 24 affecting the core operation. It may happen, it may not 25 happen. I just want to let you guys know that could come 122 1 up. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Who's putting 3 together the agenda for next Tuesday? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm supposed to talk to 5 Patterson about it. It may be very broad, probably will be. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I would hope we'd add 7 these things that we talked about this afternoon. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: On that. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Another thing that, you 11 know, Bill and I have talked about with probably, I think, 12 all the City Council members on it, is if they want to 13 participate in some way with the Ag Barn facility. And the 14 last time Bill and I visited with them -- that was something 15 we tag-teamed -- they were all lukewarm, at best. And a lot 16 of them -- Wampler wanted to wait until after they went 17 through their long-term planning retreat, and kind of see 18 where it fit in their overall -- just get an idea. I mean, 19 to be real helpful, I need to know that before we make our 20 final -- if they want to -- my gut feeling is the answer is 21 no, but I think we need to, you know, talk to them about 22 that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm going to share 24 with the members of the Court some excerpts from the C.V.B. 25 presentation the City Council makes every year, and it has a 123 1 lot of interesting statistics in it, but Sudie has gone to 2 great lengths at putting together the pluses and minuses of 3 Kerrville and Kerr County. And, among the minuses that 4 needs to be addressed is the Hill Country Youth Exhibit 5 Center. And, she -- that's part of the report to the City, 6 backed up by statistics and all the rest of the things. So, 7 I've got it and I'll pull out the pertinent parts and share 8 it with everybody. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The word that I'm hearing 10 more is that the City is banking on Las Lomas putting in a 11 Convention Center. And, that's -- that, to me, is more -- a 12 lot more iffy than us doing something out here. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, now, it's 14 interesting you bring that up, Jonathan, 'cause I had a -- I 15 had lunch with Sudie Burditt today, and we got around to 16 talking about Las Lomas and as it applies to whatever our 17 plans out there may shape up for Hill Country Youth Exhibit 18 Center. And -- if it happens, right? First of all, I think 19 we have a window of opportunity to do what we need or want 20 to do before that ever gets up to high priority status on 21 the Las Lomas drawing boards. We probably have a 3-year 22 window of opportunity, maybe as much as four. But, if you 23 take a look at their plans, and if you take a look at Las 24 Lomas' broad-based, broad-brush plans and you take a look at 25 the specifications that the City laid on Las Lomas, if they 124 1 do it as a part of the developer's agreement, we're talking 2 about apples and oranges here. We're talking about a 3 four-star hotel out there. We're talking about a high-end 4 Hill Country resort. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: And that's not the 7 clientele that traditionally is booked in here by C.V.B. 8 Not that we wouldn't welcome it, but it's not -- it's 9 high-end. And so, you know, we are talking apples and 10 oranges here. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: They probably wouldn't 13 let our cutting horses in there; is that what you're saying? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Have to be in the back. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Cutting horses are okay. 16 It's the hogs. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think the City's 18 probably more interested in developing the John Sample 19 Memorial State Park. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Absolutely. How much? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: $400,000. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Most ridiculous way to 23 spend money I've ever heard of in my entire life. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: E.I.C. money, half of 25 which -- 125 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Your comment still 2 comes to mind daily. What problem does that fix? 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. I'd sure like 4 to know. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And they're going to 6 throw a half a million -- how much? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: $400,000. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $400 million (sic) at 9 that thing. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's just for 11 openers, 400. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know, just to take 13 it over. Just to transfer and go. Unbelievable. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Is it a -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What would that do for 16 our facility out here? Which the E.I.C. money is just as 17 much ours as it is the City's. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Absolutely. I think 19 we ought to cancel that meeting Tuesday. 20 (Laughter.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: They're buying lunch. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, we'll go for a 23 while. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll go till after we 25 eat. 126 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. If there's nothing 2 else -- 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is this meeting? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's going to be at City 5 Hall. We're adjourned until 9:30 in the morning. The 6 Extension -- just for your information, at 2 o'clock, we'll 7 add the Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center under 8 Maintenance, which was overlooked. Extension Office is busy 9 with their goat sale at 3 o'clock; they're going to come in 10 Friday at 1:30, and J.P. 1 is going to come in at 3 o'clock 11 tomorrow. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I may be about an hour 13 late. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 15 (Budget workshop adjourned at 4:20 p.m.) 16 - - - - - - - - - - 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 127 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 8th day of August, 8 2001. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25