1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Budget Workshop 10 Friday, July 27, 2001 11 9:30 a.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X July 27, 2001 2 PAGE Budget Workshop 3 9:30 a.m. First Responders 3 4 County Attorney 10 5 Juvenile Probation 30 6 Adult Probation 40 7 10:00 a.m. County Court at Law 40 8 Court Collections Department 46 9 11:00 a.m. District Courts 57 10 District Attorneys 62 11 D.P.S. 73 12 1:30 p.m. Justice of the Peace #2 79 13 Justice of the Peace #3 81 14 Justice of the Peace #4 82 15 Constable, Precinct 2 86 16 Constable, Precinct 3 90 17 Constable, Precinct 4 93 18 2:00 p.m. County-sponsored activities 103 19 Sheriff's Department 123 20 Courthouse Security 147 County Jail 147 21 Jail Maintenance 158 22 3:30 p.m. Permanent Improvements 171 23 Parks Maintenance 176 24 4:00 p.m. Extension Service 180 25 Hill Country Youth Exhibition Center 186 3 1 On Friday, July 27, 2001, at 9:30 a.m., a budget workshop 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good morning. It's 9:30 in 8 the morning on Friday, July 27th. We'll reconvene our 9 budget workshops. Before we take up the scheduled 10 presentation by the County Attorney, we're going to loop 11 back and let Mr. Kyle Young give us a little background on 12 the -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: First Responders. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: First Responder; is that 15 correct, Commissioner? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's correct, sir. 17 Thank you. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Kyle? Glad to see you this 19 morning. 20 MR. YOUNG: Good morning. How are y'all 21 doing? Basically, since the last time I've talked to you, 22 we've had several meetings with the First Responders. I'm 23 very impressed at the quality of people that we have out 24 there, and their dedication. As far as budget concerns go, 25 currently I have four First Responders that are certified, 4 1 ready to go out there, but they do not have any equipment. 2 So, at this point, we're about $1,500 short of being able to 3 get them equipment so that they can -- can respond. Some of 4 the other things later on down the -- the line that we may 5 look at, I've been approached by several individuals that 6 would like to be Kerr County First Responders that are not 7 certified to -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 19. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay, thanks. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a code. You don't 12 have to worry about it; doesn't have anything to do with 13 you. 14 MR. YOUNG: Not going to get shot here. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. If we do this, 16 "19," that's when you start looking out. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: When everybody laughs 18 is when you know you're in trouble when they say 19. 19 MR. YOUNG: Later on down the line, I think 20 it -- it might be a good idea to train some more First 21 Responders. That entails a little more money than what 22 we're really asking for right now. But, I do have four 23 First Responders that do not have equipment that are ready, 24 willing, and able to respond in areas that we're kind of 25 short on First Responders in the county. We have areas in 5 1 the county that we do not have First Responders. We -- we 2 have it divided into zones, and there are some of the zones 3 that are very, very slim, and we even have one that does not 4 have anybody in that zone. So, several of the fire 5 departments are helping me, and we're trying to talk it up, 6 but the deal is, we've got to get them trained to an E.M.T. 7 level. And, later on down the road, we might look at maybe 8 sponsoring an E.M.T. class, and I could teach it, and -- and 9 teach a few more of these guys. 10 The program is vital to the citizens. Our 11 response times from the city to the county sometimes can -- 12 can be long, and without these First Responders being there 13 to administer our oxygen, to stabilize C-spine, to stop 14 bleeding, it's a detriment to life. It's a very, very vital 15 program, and without it, there would be a lot more deaths in 16 Kerr County than what there are now. These people do save 17 lives. Two or 3 o'clock in the morning, they're getting up, 18 they're responding out to these things, and then having to 19 get up and go to other jobs. So, I feel dedicated to them 20 to train them the best that I can, and to provide them with 21 best that we can, because they are providing a lifesaving 22 service to the County and to the citizens, and with -- 23 without them, the death rate in the county would definitely 24 rise. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kyle, let me ask you, 6 1 you just used the word "equipment." 2 MR. YOUNG: Mm-hmm. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What type of equipment 4 are we talking about? 5 MR. YOUNG: Equipment basically that we have 6 for the First Responders is a bag, an O-2 regulator, an O-2 7 bottle, and then disposable supplies, C-collars, bandaging, 8 splinting, and then some type of communication device where 9 we can notify them, be it a pager, a radio, something like 10 that. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And that -- so, to -- 12 and you said you had four folks out there that are 13 interested in coming on board? 14 MR. YOUNG: Yes. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, to provide those 16 four people with that basic equipment, you're requesting us 17 to put $1,500 in this line? 18 MR. YOUNG: Yes, sir. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be under 502, 20 First Responder Expenses? 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 502, First Responder 22 Expenses. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 15? 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $1,500. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We had $200 that we 7 1 added before. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. I want to 3 scratch that $200 and put $1,500 instead. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And the reason we just 6 put the $200 in there is just to keep the thing alive. 7 MR. YOUNG: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Until we heard from 9 you. 10 MR. YOUNG: Right. It took a little while to 11 evaluate the program. It's hard to get all the people 12 together at one time, in one place, because they are such a 13 diverse group of people. I've got firefighters that are in 14 the department responding, I've got authors, you name it. 15 These people are trained in responding, and I'm very proud 16 of them. And, it just took a while to communicate with all 17 of them and get a -- get a plan together and see where we 18 were as far as equipment and inventory. And -- and, I think 19 if we -- if we had the $1,500 and we could provide the 20 equipment for these four, I think we would be in better 21 shape until we can provide training and maybe put on -- if 22 we do training for more responders, of course, that's going 23 to be more equipment that we'll have to ask for at a later 24 date. Another thing, what I would like to do later on is -- 25 is go to a different type of paging system for the 8 1 volunteers. Currently, when the tones go off for the Kerr 2 County First Responders, it's one tone; every zone is 3 notified. So, at 2 o'clock in the morning, we may have a 4 wreck on the other side of Ingram, but Center Point's people 5 are knowing about it and awake. I would like to be able to 6 have it where they could -- even if their pager did go off, 7 they could look at it, see what zone it was, and turn over 8 and go back to sleep, instead of getting geared up and 9 thinking it may be in their area and getting dressed, and 10 then it not be in their area and then they have to -- it's 11 kind of hard to gear back down. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're dealing with 13 volunteer people. 14 MR. YOUNG: Yes, we are. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We have to remember 16 that. 17 MR. YOUNG: And we have scheduled training, 18 addressing all of their continuing education hours. We're 19 going to do it in the evening time, so that they can be 20 there. That was one of their concerns, was that we -- we 21 provide continuing education for the fire department and 22 they're -- they're welcome to come at any time, but it's 23 most of the time during the day, and it's hard for them. 24 So, I'm going to be coming in in the the evenings and having 25 our meetings and giving them the continuing education 9 1 training that they need. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Kyle, you're doing an 3 excellent job, and you've brought the program a long way and 4 in a very short time, and I appreciate that very much. 5 MR. YOUNG: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Don't leave this room 7 thinking that you have $1,500, though. 8 MR. YOUNG: Oh, I'm not. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Not yet. 10 MR. YOUNG: I know. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Kyle, what areas -- you 12 said some areas are looking -- 13 MR. YOUNG: Zone 3 is north of the 14 interstate. In that zone, we currently don't have anybody 15 in that zone that is certified as a First Responder and part 16 of the program. Zone 1, which is Kerrville South out on 17 Medina highway, we have two people out that way. One of 18 them's a fireman and one of them works in Fredericksburg, so 19 if one's on duty and it's during the day, there's nobody to 20 respond out that way. We do have some of the volunteer 21 firemen that respond to assist, but they're not actually 22 First Responders and trained medically to -- and have the 23 equipment to -- to intervene. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 MR. YOUNG: Then we have other zones that we 10 1 have quite a few people in, that it's comfortable for me to 2 know that our guys are going on a call out there, and -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 4 MR. YOUNG: -- and know there's going to be 5 somebody there. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you for taking 7 time to come over. 8 MR. YOUNG: You bet. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anybody else have any 10 questions for Mr. Young? Okay. Thank you, Kyle. 11 MR. YOUNG: Thank you all very much. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. The next scheduled 14 presentation is by the County Attorney, which I believe is 15 Tab 9. 16 MR. MOTLEY: Which you said -- which you 17 believe was what? I didn't hear you. Okay. I just wanted 18 to start, go down -- start down. We've got some changes in 19 what we had submitted with our budget in approximately six 20 line items. I don't know if you want to go through those, 21 or just start at 001 and go down, or what's your preference? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why don't you tell -- just 23 tell us of any major changes, either in last year's or what 24 you submitted. 25 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. Well, some of the changes 11 1 that have already been submitted, what I'm saying is we have 2 some additional re -- or amended changes that we've come up 3 with since we submitted the budget. So, I'll try to point 4 out the difference. I guess the first item of any 5 significance will be item 103, Assistant Salaries. And that 6 originally was -- just a second here -- it was originally a 7 no change item, and I've added $896 in there. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: That would be for what 9 purpose? 10 MR. MOTLEY: I was getting to that. It's my 11 understanding that -- and I really wasn't aware of this at 12 the time we submitted the budget, that Travis Lucas, having 13 been employed about a year, is entitled to an increase in 14 pay for longevity. Something approaching what would be 15 equal to one step. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: About $250. 17 MR. MOTLEY: Well -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Isn't that an 19 automatic -- 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's an automatic -- that's 21 not something you have to account for. 22 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. I didn't even know that. 23 So, then, that may not represent any change at all. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That is, if you -- if you 25 notified the County Treasurer's office of the fact that he's 12 1 eligible, then it will get automatically plugged into the 2 budget. If you haven't, then it won't happen. 3 MR. MOTLEY: When you say "notified," you're 4 talking about job performance-type stuff? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, the memo that I sent out 6 about two months ago saying if any of your employees are 7 eligible for the one-step increase based on having been here 8 a year and not having gotten an increase last year, then you 9 need to notify the County Treasurer's office. 10 MR. MOTLEY: I have a memo that is dated 11 August 4th, 2000 regarding that, and that's the one I was 12 going by. Item -- okay, let's see. Maybe -- let me give 13 you kind of a global explanation of something that -- on two 14 items -- on two factors that I think are going to apply 15 throughout. This -- this year, our anticipated increase in 16 criminal case filings and criminal activity is up 25 percent 17 over last year -- 26 percent, which was also up 26 percent 18 over the year before. Trying to estimate what we would see 19 in the next fiscal year at the trend that we were seeing, I 20 estimated 25 percent increase, so some of that is built into 21 this -- these requested budget item increases. 22 Another factor that has -- bears mentioning 23 is that Judge Brown, about three or four months ago, and 24 Russ had approached our office about changing the way that 25 we conduct court in his court, and the way we prepare 13 1 judgments, urging us to implement a system that Russ has 2 seen used effectively in the area. It involves -- the 3 highlights of it involves sending a letter to each criminal 4 defendant with a plea offer in it, telling him what the 5 fine's going to be and the fines are expected to be due when 6 they come in and appear in court if they should choose to 7 take the offer. At that point, we would -- this is all 8 going to have to be done somehow by computer. At that 9 point, the information complaint would be generated, as well 10 as the plea papers and everything would all be generated at 11 one time, take it to court, have it all ready to go, and it 12 should cut down times, should -- Russ tells us it will 13 increase collection of fines earlier, and that's been the 14 experience in other counties, as well as it will make things 15 go faster, produce a neater judgment with less need to 16 pencil in last-minute changes. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You agree? 18 MR. MOTLEY: I think -- I think it has some 19 good potential, but when we talked about it three months 20 ago, it was just a concept. And, as we've been -- we've 21 been working with Shaun and we've been working with the 22 assistants, and it's going to involve some system changes in 23 our office. It's going to involve redoing some judgments. 24 It's going to increase paperwork -- I mean paper 25 consumption, toner consumption, and postage dramatically, 14 1 e-mail. We're going to file 2,400 cases this year, is our 2 target, so if we we took this year, for example, 2,400 cases 3 at 34 cents a piece is $816 additional postage, just for one 4 letter to each one of them. So, I wanted to give you that 5 as -- by way of a factor that's in the background that's 6 going to come up. 7 The overtime budget, Item Number 112, we've 8 submitted it as it was. It -- year-to-date expenditures are 9 only $325, and that might seem a likely place to reduce the 10 budget. However, we really do anticipate, with this coming 11 County Court at Law procedure, that we are going to have 12 some overtime required to implement the program and make the 13 system changes and such, so we ask that that one be left as 14 it is. Let's see, 206 would involve the change. You 15 already have had that submitted to you. It's a reduction of 16 $150. That is the cost -- instead of the $225, we're asking 17 for $75. That is the cost of one person to be bonded for a 18 notary public, and we last year had three that needed it. 19 This year we only have one, so we're asking for that one. 20 Item 309 is postage. What we've previously submitted to you 21 was a plus of $2,000. What I'm asking for is an 22 additional -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Plus $500. 24 MR. MOTLEY: Excuse me, plus $500. I 25 apologize, you're absolutely right. $2,000 over, $1,500 15 1 plus $500. I'm asking for plus $1,366 there, an 2 additional -- in other words, the requested item -- let's 3 see, $2,866. It represents $1,366 increase over last year's 4 budget. The reason on this being, again, the case load 5 going from 1,500, 1,900, 2,400 this year, anticipated about 6 3,000 next year. If you look at our postage expenditures to 7 date, we are over two-thirds at halfway -- I said "to date." 8 Excuse me, it's through six months, we're over two-thirds 9 spent. So, last year, we did not come to the Court for an 10 increase in first class postage. It went up and we didn't 11 come in. This year we are going to experience a two cent 12 increase in second-out stamps, which we use more of than 13 you'd think, and then a one-ounce -- excuse me, one-cent 14 increase on post card stamps. We use postcards for quite a 15 bit of stuff. So, we're anticipating additional need for 16 postage, primarily due to postal rate increase, the increase 17 in the case load, and the additional cost necessitated by 18 having to mail out a letter on this new County Court at Law 19 procedure. So, that's a -- let's see. That will be $2,866, 20 is the requested item, or a $1,366 increase, I believe is 21 the way it -- just a second. 22 On the Office Supplies, we've already sent 23 that in at $4,000. That is an increase of $1,100. We have 24 no additional change on that. That is primarily, again, due 25 to costs anticipated for case load increase and cost to 16 1 implement this new system. Item 311 is one of those which 2 involves sort of an amendment from what we've already 3 submitted. Photocopy Supplies, we had submitted plus $800, 4 I believe -- excuse me, we submitted -- asked for $800, 5 which was no change. We rethought that in light of this 6 case load increase, the anticipated 25 percent case load 7 increase, and upped that to $1,000, so there's a difference 8 there in what we had submitted originally to now. No change 9 in 312. 10 315, that bears some explanation. There is 11 no change requested on Item 315. $5,000 was last year's 12 budget. We've spent $1,326. I'd like to explain that that 13 figure probably looks a bit low; if we were at six months 14 through, it ought to be about $2,500. We have -- we are in 15 the process of contesting four separate monthly billings 16 with West Publishing. I believe we're correct on the bills, 17 and we're having a hard time. I've written, e-mailed, 18 called our representative and called in St. Paul, Minnesota, 19 and they're just dragging their feet. It's something to do 20 with changing over something in a computer, but when you 21 contest a monthly bill, they won't even bill you for the 22 base rate, which we're not contesting. They won't let you 23 pay the $175 a month. So, at four months, we know we owe 24 them another $700; we don't contest that. So, to be 25 accurate, even at that point in time, when this 6-month 17 1 budget was printed, that should have shown about 2,026, 2 which will be a little closer. So, we anticipate doubling 3 that through the year. 4 And, this is a -- of course, a legislative 5 year. We buy the bulk of our non West publications through 6 the Texas District and County Attorney's Association, and if 7 we buy them during our annual seminar, which is the last 8 week in September -- very last week of our fiscal year, we 9 are subject to receiving special bargains, premiums, free 10 shipping and such as that, so we usually hold off till that, 11 and those books are probably anywhere from $500 to $1,000. 12 So, although expenditures look low now, if we correct that 13 with the $700 that we're not -- I mean that we're not 14 contesting, and then add in the books bought in the last 15 month of the fiscal year, I think the $5,000 is going to be 16 pretty close, and we think we can live with that next year. 17 Item 420 is an item that -- I guess you'd 18 call it an amended change. Helena had originally asked for 19 an additional $500 over the $5,000 from last year. I looked 20 at that again and thought that with an anticipated 21 25 percent increase in case load, that we ought to move that 22 up 25 percent, or move to it $6,250. We figure everything 23 should be about that same rate, so that is an increase of 24 $1,250, as opposed to $500. No changes in 456, 457, and 25 460. Getting down to 461, Lease Copier, when we prepared 18 1 the budget that Helena Smith had -- hello, Judge Brown. 2 JUDGE BROWN: Hey, David. 3 MR. MOTLEY: When we prepared the budget, 4 Helena Smith had -- you know, we have a per copy charge of 5 1.58, and she went back and looked at all our bills and 6 estimated 4,500 copies a month would be plenty for us. And, 7 in the sense this budget was submitted, we've gotten two 8 more quarterly statements; we got one just a couple days 9 afterwards, and we've gotten another one, and the usage is 10 actually -- when averaged with more current and updated 11 information, is approximately 6,500-plus a month. It's gone 12 up. I can tell you what we attribute that to, if y'all need 13 to know, but we, last July, went from a book -- hard copy 14 bound volume system of doing research to a West law online 15 system, and anytime you have an image on the screen that you 16 want to print out to use, you have to, of course, print it. 17 And if you distribute that to anybody, a Judge or a lawyer, 18 you have to then, again, copy that system. So, our copy 19 costs have gone up quite a bit, and I would say that that's, 20 you know, something that is over -- it's just based on more 21 updated, more recent information, about the best way I can 22 tell you on that one. Item 480 -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: What number are you 24 suggesting? 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do you propose a 19 1 number? 2 MR. MOTLEY: I'm sorry, I apologize. $4,410, 3 as opposed to $3,360, which is an increase of $1,050 over 4 what we had asked before. We had asked for no increase, but 5 we're asking for $1,050 more to cover costs of additional 6 copies. Should be $4,410. Item 480 is Professional 7 Responsibility Insurance. We have another staff member, and 8 these guys bill late in the year, and we submit all our 9 stuff in January every year. And we added a third attorney 10 last year, and I believe it -- we had to get extra money in 11 to pay the additional premium last year by a budget 12 transfer, if I'm not mistaken. So, the cost actually to us 13 last year was $4,303, and that's what's we're asking for 14 this year. The $4,303 was after the amendment to increase 15 that line item. Originally we had budgeted 3,053 for two 16 lawyers. So this represents a $1,250 increase in that line 17 item over what was originally budgeted, but not what the 18 expenditure was. So -- let's see. That final item is 19 $4,303. And, we -- and I also want to tell you that that is 20 a guess, best guesstimate. We don't really know what the 21 premium's going to be. We don't -- we don't know until 22 they, you know, send us a statement, and I think it comes in 23 December. 24 There's no change in Items 485 through 561, 25 and actually there's no change in Item 562, but this is 20 1 another instance where, if you look at the six months 2 history here attached to the budget, it's -- $1,500 was the 3 budgeted amount. Year-to-date expenditure is zero. We have 4 just recently purchased Windows 2000 and -- for network, and 5 Office 2000, and we either have not been billed yet, or if 6 we have been billed, we have not submitted the bill for 7 payment. And, I would anticipate the cost of that to be 8 somewhere around -- well, I would say between $500 and 9 $1,000. We don't know. So, that doesn't show up on the 10 budget. So, although it looks like that would be a good 11 place to reduce, it doesn't show the historic -- or it 12 doesn't show the fact that we've got a bill that didn't show 13 up on here. 14 Software maintenance, I have no known change 15 for that, but then again, I guess Software Group -- I don't 16 know when they make their changes. They probably determine 17 what the monthly is on that. Just one last thing -- let's 18 see, Computer Supplies. This already -- I'm just -- this 19 has already been submitted, Item 565. We requested a $1,000 20 increase over $500, for a $1,500 item. This is due to more 21 than the increase -- the new procedure I mention. It's due 22 to more than the anticipated case load increase. We believe 23 that with these increases, of course, we're going to have 24 more need for toner. The new -- and I'm referring ahead to 25 Line 570, Capital Outlay, but we are requesting a new 21 1 printer as a Capital Outlay item. Those printers -- we're 2 going to have supplies for the new printer. The printer 3 cartridges for that printer -- the toner cartridges are 4 about $123, as opposed to $45. During this last fiscal 5 year, we purchased a fax machine. Our other one was just 6 gone, and we -- we couldn't make it go any more, and the 7 cost of cartridges for that fax machine are substantially 8 higher, probably something along the order of double what 9 they were for the previous fax machine. So, there's a 10 number of factors that go into that requested additional -- 11 or $1,000 additional requested in funds. 12 Going over to Item 570, Capital Outlay, we're 13 requesting $2,500. That's an approximation. This figure is 14 for the purchase of a -- a heavy duty, high-speed, network 15 capable laser printer. The current printer we're using is 16 an H.P. Laser Jet 3; it's approximately 11 years old. I 17 know there was one used upstairs somewhere that they retired 18 at five to six years of age. We've had a maintenance 19 contract on this for the last several years, and we really 20 try hard to keep it in good working condition, and it's been 21 a good printer. We are asking for this printer because of 22 the additional paperwork we believe that we're going to have 23 to produce to accommodate this new procedure that I've 24 mentioned. Additionally, we don't think the other printer 25 is going to last forever, so this would serve as a backup. 22 1 The cost -- and I have submitted with this a 2 Xerox of the item Helena found in the catalog. The computer 3 itself is $2,049. Envelope feeder, $249. A cable, $13.99, 4 and a printer cartridge, $122.99. We don't know the 5 shipping and handling at this point. This computer -- 6 excuse me, this printer is high speed; it's 25 pages a 7 minute, instead of 8 pages a minute at -- in black and white 8 mode. It has three trays, which will allow us to have a 9 tray for envelopes, a tray for plain paper, and a tray for 10 letterhead, where we don't have to get up, put in the 11 letterhead, go print it, take that out, put in a piece of 12 white paper, get up, take that out, and then go put in an 13 envelope. So, we'll be able to have that do that. This has 14 32 megs of RAM, it has a higher resolution than the old one. 15 It is capable of automatic duplex printing, which, of 16 course, for certain things we would print front and back. 17 And, really, I guess that's about it, as far as 18 presentation. 19 I do want to mention -- I don't know if y'all 20 are looking at this point at out-year budget change 21 forecasts for the next fiscal year. Because we are asking 22 for something that we did not submit with our budget request 23 for out-year 2002/2003, and that's plus -- $30,000, plus or 24 minus, for an investigator. That includes for salary and 25 benefits. 23 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's not included in your 2 submission, correct? 3 MR. MOTLEY: That was not, no, sir. And I -- 4 what I did is I took the copy y'all have, and I made a copy 5 of that I got from Tommy and made the changes on there. 6 Which, you know, I guess call them amended changes. But 7 that is something that we're finding the need for more and 8 more in our office. It's too many nights when I'm out -- 9 personally out taking pictures of crime scenes and driving 10 around trying to find witnesses, getting photographs 11 developed and such, and that really probably -- I'm not 12 going to be able to use some of the information that I, you 13 know, myself prepare. It might put me in a compromising 14 position if I have to try the case and then also say, well, 15 I prepared the exhibits and such. But I think there -- 16 there are plenty of counties our size that have 17 investigators, and I've -- I have resisted the idea for a 18 long time. 19 We've typically been able to ask, in 20 limited -- in very special circumstances, we've been able to 21 ask for the agency that submitted the offense report to send 22 somebody out to do the follow-up work or to do some more 23 work for us, but we've found that -- particularly Kerrville 24 Police Department and the Sheriff's Department are stretched 25 kind of thin, and once they get a case prepared and sent to 24 1 us, the last thing they want to do is go back in the file 2 cabinet, pull one out a month old and, you know, reactivate 3 that thing and go out and interview people again. It's been 4 very difficult to get that done, but there's times when we 5 look at it and we realize there's supplemental work that's 6 required of a case. 7 And, there are a lot -- there are a number of 8 functions that an investigator could serve in the office; 9 could serve hot check warrants and -- could do more than 10 just investigation. But, we -- he'd help us find people. 11 We have a terrible time in cases finding our victims. I 12 know I was over in Ingram the other night, about dark, 13 looking for a place that at 102 Sutton Circle, and I barely 14 found Sutton Circle. I found the place, and the people I 15 was looking for -- this is a case about a year old. They've 16 moved, and there had been two other tenants in and out -- 17 moved in and out since. And, I finally found them in 18 Bandera, but that's the kind of thing that, really, I don't 19 have time to do, to run people down, witnesses down and 20 contact them, take statements and such, and I think that's 21 something an investigator could do more efficiently. 22 And, that's really it. If y'all have any 23 questions, I would be happy to -- I do want to know if 24 there's going to be any further, you know, hearings or -- I 25 know there's going to be -- 25 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: At this time, we don't know. 2 We'll have to see how it all progresses. There usually is. 3 MR. MOTLEY: Yeah. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: It will be posted as an 5 agenda item. We'll send it out to all the elected officials 6 by e-mail. 7 MR. MOTLEY: Anybody have any questions? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. 9 MR. MOTLEY: Yes, sir? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The program that you 11 talked about that Mr. Duncan has brought to you obviously 12 does not streamline anything. It certainly has caused a lot 13 more money in your budget. We haven't even looked at his 14 yet or the Judge's yet, but it certainly has bumped yours up 15 quite a bit, but it doesn't streamline anything. As a 16 matter of fact, it's adding to work. So, what -- what is 17 the benefit to the County -- let me finish my sentence. 18 MR. MOTLEY: Go ahead. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What is the benefit to 20 the County that this new, wonderful program is going to -- 21 MR. MOTLEY: Well, there are numerous 22 benefits, and Russ has told us that he's seen these -- these 23 benefits in area counties that are doing this system. 24 Gillespie, Kendall are doing this. The way the system 25 works, and is that a criminal -- we get an offense report. 26 1 At the time the offense report is reviewed, the attorney 2 will enter information in the computer as to the variables 3 of what the person is charged with, the date of the offense 4 and, say, the name of the person assaulted and such as that, 5 the means of the assault. We'll also have a place where he 6 can put in what he is suggesting for a fine, and other 7 conditions of probation, how much community service, and 8 does this person need to take an anger management class and 9 all that. We'll enter that in at the time we take in the 10 case. Then, when the case is sent over through the network, 11 hopefully what we want to happen will happen. 12 Nell, when she is printing up the information 13 and complaint, which should be -- have all the information 14 filled in from the intake, the computer will also at that 15 point generate a letter to the perpetrator, saying this is 16 what you're charged with, this is when you have to be in 17 court, this is the fine, cost, et cetera. This is the whole 18 ball of wax. If you want to accept this, come to court at 19 this day, at this time, and bring this much money. Then the 20 computer will generate the judgment and sentence. So, it 21 will have an effect of streamlining. There wouldn't have to 22 be a second process; it would all be done at one time. When 23 we go to court, if that person says, "I'm going to take the 24 deal," we pull out the judgment. They already have a video 25 tape that's explained their rights. We ask if they 27 1 understand their rights. They say yeah, we sign it, they 2 sign it, they go up to the bench. That's it. 3 As it is, if they don't want it, we make that 4 into scrap paper and put them on the contested docket. That 5 has the advantage it would free up a lot of time, I think, 6 really, for the Judge. The way it works now is we have a -- 7 a form judgment that's -- and Judge Henneke has seen it in 8 juvenile court, 'cause it's the same system. It has every 9 variable there you could have. It's boilerplate. We go 10 through and we we cross this off, cross that off, cross that 11 off, add the fine. Here's how much jail credit. Take -- 12 you know, take something out, handwrite things in, and it 13 just simply takes probably an additional 5 to 10 minutes per 14 person to get that judgment to conform to what is agreed to 15 at the time. And, so, there is a streamlining effect. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 17 MR. MOTLEY: One effect, also -- and this is 18 what Russ is telling me -- in Gillespie County, that they 19 are seeing people come in and -- let's just give an example. 20 I think he told me one time of about 20 people who came in 21 for arraignment. I believe on this date, everybody accepted 22 the plea and everybody but two people brought their full 23 payment of costs and fine. And, I think being given the 24 expectation up front by means of a letter that it's going to 25 be expected and due that day will help bring the money 28 1 earlier, would reduce efforts on the part of Probation to 2 collect it later, reduce efforts on the part of Russ to 3 collect it later, and get the money in earlier. So, that's 4 the -- that's kind of a two-prong goal. And I don't know if 5 I've said that right. 6 JUDGE BROWN: Yeah. Yeah. 7 MR. MOTLEY: Russ maybe could enlighten you 8 more on it, but that's the goal. And, one of those items -- 9 really, the pricey item is the Capital Outlay, number 570. 10 We -- our printer, as I said, is 11 years old. You know, we 11 need another printer, pretty much, regardless. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. That -- to me, 13 that doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking 14 about. 15 MR. MOTLEY: I had put that -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm just thankful I'm 17 not a lawyer, I'm going to tell you right now; I'm a 18 County -- I'm a good County Commissioner and not a lawyer. 19 MR. MOTLEY: No more questions? 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question. 21 Which of these two printers are you contemplating, the 1999 22 or 1080? 23 MR. MOTLEY: If the -- the printer that we're 24 looking at is the -- let me get my paper out here. It's 25 Model -- 29 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm looking at the 2 price tag, not the model. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the one circled. 4 MR. MOTLEY: $2,049. It's the H.P. 4100-DTN. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 6 MR. MOTLEY: The reason for this, it has the 7 three tray -- it has the ability to accommodate three trays 8 for -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any other questions or 10 comments about the County Attorney's budget? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'll just make a comment 12 to questions or responses. We're going to consolidate a lot 13 of those -- the office supplies, computer supplies. All 14 those are going to be in one category. 15 MR. MOTLEY: Nondepartmental, you mean? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, one category for -- 17 your department's not going to have four categories, for one 18 computer, one for office, one for copies. 19 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: One office supplies 21 category, so when you get it back, it's going to come back 22 that way. 23 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause you're asking for 25 changes in all those. 30 1 MR. MOTLEY: That's fine. I think that makes 2 good sense. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thanks, David. 4 MR. MOTLEY: Thank you. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next on the list is Juvenile 7 Probation, Adult Probation, which is Tab 17. Kevin? 8 MR. STANTON: Good morning. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Morning. 10 MR. STANTON: I'll make mine short and sweet. 11 Nothing's changed. The bottom line's all still the same. 12 We're not asking for any anything new. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Bye. 14 (Laughter.) 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Couple of things. 16 MR. STANTON: Okay. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll wear more than one hat, 18 here. Line Item 402, Attorney Ad Litem Fees. 19 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm going to recommend we 21 increase that to $25,000. That's based on the Auditor's 22 projection that that's the number we're going to use this 23 year. That would take it from 20 to 25. Telephone, 420. 24 Again, based on the Auditor's projections, that's going to 25 come up to $6,200 this year, so I'm suggesting we take it up 31 1 to 65 next year. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sixty-five? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Telephone? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Correct, 420. 460, Office 6 Rent. Since we anticipate that the Juvenile Probation 7 Department will be moved in here by the start of the next 8 fiscal year, we're going to zero that out. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Actually, that should 10 happen real soon. 11 MR. STANTON: They're saying by September 1st 12 we'll be be over, yes, sir. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's count on -- 15 let's count on that. Now, I don't know exactly who or how 16 the push -- to push that, but let's make sure that you're in 17 by September 1, definitely. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: 482, Alternate Housing. I 19 want to take that up to $40,000, as opposed to $36,000. 20 We're cutting it real, real close this year. Your can tell 21 from our budget amendment last time. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Mm-hmm. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: And then, for some reason, I 24 zeroed out the Capital Outlay. Kevin, why did I do that? 25 MR. STANTON: I don't know, sir. 32 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: What is the -- what are you 2 requesting with that $1,869? 3 MR. STANTON: The only thing that I foresee 4 the $1,869 was that -- about $685 of it, we were going to 5 use to put a cage in the van that we don't have. And the 6 rest of it, we just -- we had just left in there because we 7 felt that if we needed it later, we could move to it a 8 different category. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't do that, so we'll 10 put $1,000 in for Capital Outlay, as opposed to $1,869. 11 Everybody got that? 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can we put the word -- 13 I'm putting the word "van cage" -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- there. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's a good idea. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I think it probably 18 needs to be specific. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: It will have to be listed, 20 have to be listed on Capital Outlay. Anything else for the 21 budget as presented? I will tell you that we had the 22 Juvenile Board meeting this morning, and we discussed at the 23 board meeting moving the CASA, K'Star, and Family and 24 Literacy contributions to this Juvenile budget, because we 25 do use those agency's services as part of the juvenile court 33 1 process. I mean, we ask CASA to do home studies, we house 2 offenders at K'Star, and we use Family Literacy for G.E.D. 3 programs, as well as parenting classes. So, those are three 4 of the social agencies that the Juvenile Board, through the 5 juvenile court, directly uses for services. And -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We're still using -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: The Juvenile Board does have 8 the ability to contract for services. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: So that is -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me -- 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- a possibility if we want 12 to do that. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, if it's done that 14 way, I don't really object to the -- I mean, if y'all are 15 using it, maybe do it on a -- but if it's -- to me, if it's 16 a blanket -- like, a $5,000 check, like we're doing now -- 17 that's kind of a better word, is right now. But if you're 18 going to do it as service provided, I mean, just a -- one 19 category for outside services, and put the total in that, 20 not even list them separately -- 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: We could do that. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And then let -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I guess. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: At the discretion of the 25 Juvenile Department or your discretion as to which you're 34 1 using when, up to a certain amount of money. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy, do you have a response 3 to that? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, we -- we changed that 5 around a little bit this morning. It might be -- to do 6 that, we would have to require them to -- to provide an 7 invoice, or something to pay by. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What about interlocal 10 contract, like we do fire departments? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it would have to be a 12 contract, a -- yeah. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah, and we'd have to work 15 that -- we'd have to work the mechanism out. One of the 16 problems on doing it on an invoice basis is, for instance, 17 K'Star provides residential services free of charge. 18 MR. MOTLEY: Are we talking about going to a 19 fee-based, like, for example, CASA study? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're trying to avoid going 21 to a fee base. But, I mean, those are the three agencies 22 that the juvenile court uses, and I used each of them 23 yesterday. Judge Brown? 24 JUDGE BROWN: Of course, we use CASA a lot 25 too in my court. 35 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 2 JUDGE BROWN: And they don't charge us 3 anything. So, all three of those agencies you talked about, 4 if you cut off their -- if they lose their funding from out 5 -- like y'all help and everybody helps, then they will be 6 out of business. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: The thing about CASA is, they 8 get funding from the State for Child Protective Services, 9 and -- and adoption. They don't get any funding from the 10 State for juvenile cases, home studies. We're the only 11 source of funding for them to go out and look at a home 12 situation when I've got a sticky case, and I use it pretty 13 regularly. So, I just want to tell the Court that that's a 14 possible avenue. I think Tommy and I need to sit down 15 and -- and talk about perhaps the mechanics, but -- 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Fred? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: And that's $10,000. So, 18 if -- if it comes back with $10,000 more, that's the 19 genesis. Buster? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What -- and I'm not 21 being argumentative. I really would like to know. Why 22 would you -- why would you want to do that? I mean, why 23 change it out of one budget and put it into another budget? 24 I mean, taxpayers' money coming out of the same pocket, 25 going to the same pocket. 36 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it's -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Part of this controversy over 3 whether the Court has the legal ability simply to give money 4 to the social agencies. You know, and -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I mean, wouldn't 6 it still be the same moneys, though? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It would be the same money, 8 but it would be on a different legal basis. It would be 9 under the authority of the Juvenile Board to contract for 10 services. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Paying the same money, 12 but now you've made it legal in everybody's book. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, but I thought 14 what's illegal about the thing is -- is that you're using 15 taxpayers' money to give them; that's the illegal part of 16 it. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: The illegal part of it -- 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That doesn't change. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: The illegal part of it is 20 that you don't -- until we get the Attorney General's 21 opinion, we don't have a clear legal basis for the 22 Commissioners Court to contribute $3,000 to Big Brothers and 23 Big Sisters. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The Juvenile Board can 37 1 contract and does contract with agencies for services. We 2 contract with the Detention Facility, we contract with I 3 don't know how many alternative housing agencies. 4 MR. STANTON: About ten. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: We contract with 6 psychologists and psychiatrists to provide services. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And depending -- you 8 know, it could very well be that you could write a fixed 9 price contract. If -- if that -- if the legal aspect of it 10 is such that you can do that, maybe you still just -- you 11 just write a fixed price contract for $3,000, which is 12 legal, as opposed to making a donation of $3,000, which is 13 illegal. So, yeah, it's the same money, but now you've done 14 it in a legal way, rather than an illegal way. That's all 15 we're trying to straighten out. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: To me, to change it -- I 17 mean, a fixed price contract is maybe the way to go. 18 That -- you know, we'll give you $3,000 and you'll provide 19 or do whatever thing is asked for -- from, you know, the 20 County Court, Court at Law, and Juvenile Court. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I thought we already did 22 that. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: What? 24 MR. TOMLINSON: I thought we already did 25 that. 38 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: We did it under Commissioners 2 Court auspices, not the Juvenile Board auspices. 3 MR. MOTLEY: I know a long-term solution. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which is? 5 MR. MOTLEY: Be real easy. We go to Harvey 6 and ask him to go to these different agencies that -- go to 7 the section of the law that regulates youth shelters, and 8 simply add one section in there that says that a county in 9 which their shelter is located, the Commissioners Court of 10 that county may make contributions for the general operating 11 expenses of this deal. And I don't know anybody who 12 wouldn't carry that. I mean, that's two years out, but I'm 13 just saying the long-term solution would be to correct the 14 statute and do it that way. And that would be -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyway, I just wanted I -- I 16 just want to inform the Commissioners Court that you -- when 17 the final budget's presented for approval, you may see 18 $10,000 in the Juvenile Board budget which will be for -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Donations. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- CASA, K'Star, and Family 21 Literacy, as the social agencies in Kerr County that provide 22 services directly to the Juvenile Board through the juvenile 23 court. And, there's -- we got lots of statistics on that if 24 we need to back it up. So, anyway, I just -- that's just 25 for information. 39 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to 2 interject that I think it's a good solution. I don't know 3 about the rest of you, but I've had a lot of calls about 4 where we are with respect to contributions to agencies like 5 K'Star and others that -- and people misunderstand intent. 6 You know, if we say, hey, philosophically we're in tune; you 7 do a good job. Let's -- we really believe in what you do, 8 but that fella right there is saying that the way we're 9 doing it may not be the appropriate way to do it. So, if we 10 can find a more appropriate way and continue the services, I 11 think that's a good way. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any more questions for Kevin? 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. Thanks, Kevin. 14 MR. STANTON: Can I -- I just want, just for 15 you guys' clarification, if you notice that we added on 16 Number 104, at the top, and that the -- and 103 has been 17 greatly increased at the top. What we did was took all the 18 salary line items out of the State budget and moved it over 19 into the County budget, and then reduced the -- or added 20 into the residential housing in the State budget, reduced it 21 from the salaries, to make it easy for the Auditor's office 22 and everybody to pay salaries out of one budget. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. That was going 24 to be my question. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The dollars are a wash? 40 1 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir, the dollars are 2 exactly the same. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I just want to know 4 where they're coming from. 5 MR. STANTON: Yes, sir. If you look at the 6 -- at the reduction in the last year on Number 482, it was 7 $126,067. Now it's down to $40,000, and the State budget 8 has been increased by that much. Thank y'all. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Howard wasn't 10 able to be here for the Adult Probation. It's the same 11 as -- he had to go to Austin. It's also under Tab 17. It's 12 the last budget under Tab 17. It's exactly the same -- 13 actually, it's reduced over last year, but it is the 14 State budget. Anyone have any questions about that? 15 (No response.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's go, then, to 17 County Court at Law, which is Tab Number 4, I believe. 18 Judge? 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Thank you. 20 JUDGE BROWN: You bet. Okay. I'll let 21 Barbara kind of explain what we've just handed you there. 22 MS. HOLMES: When we had submitted our 23 preliminary budget back the 1st of June, we had expected 24 that we would be able to stay very much within our budget 25 for this year, but we've had some changes that have come 41 1 about over the past two months, and so we're going to have 2 to request some additional money, one in Line Item Number 3 402, which is Court-Appointed Attorney Fees. Our criminal 4 docket continues to increase. We're also doing more ad 5 litem appointments on family law cases. Our original budget 6 for this year was $11,000, and we've already reached 7 $14,885. We've had to ask for three budget amendments so 8 far this year. And, also, Judge Ables has asked us to 9 include additional funding in that particular line item for 10 cases that Judge Dubose hears. She's an associate judge; 11 she handles the Child Protective Services cases. And, what 12 they've been doing is paying it out of the District Judges' 13 budgets, but he has asked us just to -- just so that 14 basically, when it's a C case in this court, then the proper 15 judge signs the order for payment, which would be Judge 16 Brown, and he said it would simplify things if we could add 17 that additional money to that particular line item for this 18 year. 19 JUDGE BROWN: These are mainly -- that's for 20 appointing add litems, attorney ad litems. And we had one 21 the other day came in, in C court, but it's -- Dubose heard 22 it, and they had -- a lawyer submitted a bill, and I'm 23 going -- you know, I don't have any money to pay it. So, 24 that's why we talked to Judge Ables about it, and we also 25 talked to Linda Uecker, and she estimates that $2,700 would 42 1 cover the cases, as far as court appointments that Judge 2 Dubose makes on -- for ad litems. That's what she feels 3 like that that would cover for a year, fiscal year. So -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does Judge Dubose -- 5 does she function on your level of court only? Or does she 6 function on the District Court -- 7 MS. HOLMES: She handles all the TDPRS cases, 8 which is Texas Department of Regulatory -- 9 JUDGE BROWN: Services. 10 MS. HOLMES: -- Protective and Regulatory 11 Services. And, she handles -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought you said 13 child support, I'm sorry. 14 MS. HOLMES: No. No, that's -- Judge Mauldin 15 handles those, the A.G. cases. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, is -- 17 JUDGE BROWN: When it comes in the A or B 18 court -- 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: District Courts also. 20 JUDGE BROWN: If it comes in A or B court, 21 see, we don't have to worry about it. District Court -- 22 MS. HOLMES: Only those that are C cases, 23 which is County Court at Law, would we get -- the expenses 24 would be kicked back to our budget, rather than be -- having 25 them included in the District Judges'. 43 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. So, 2 what does that number go to? 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is that number? 4 MS. HOLMES: 402 -- Line Item Number 402. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have $11,000 6 there, but you want to change it to -- 7 MS. HOLMES: $20,000. 8 JUDGE BROWN: Let me explain why. Because 9 our -- in addition to that problem, our caseload's just 10 going way up. We're -- we're appointing a lot of -- a lot 11 more attorneys lately. 12 MS. HOLMES: At this point, we're already at 13 about 400 more cases than we were last year, and so we're 14 doing more work. 15 JUDGE BROWN: When we estimated the budget 16 originally, see, we're -- a lot of this stuff -- we hadn't 17 figured it out. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Sure, I understand. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Next, Barbara? 20 MS. HOLMES: Okay. And then Line Item Number 21 415, which we've not had any money in that particular 22 budget; only one time, I think, since I've been working for 23 County Court at Law, and I believe that was the year that 24 Judge Brown was sick and we had to pay someone. But, we've 25 got a couple of cases that have just come about in the last 44 1 couple of months. One of them is a gentleman that's been 2 charged with cruelty to animals, and it's kind of a high 3 profile case, and we've -- Judge Brown recused himself, and 4 Judge Ables has assigned an out-of-town judge to hear those 5 cases. And, so, we will -- this court will be responsible 6 for his expenses and his fee to come to Kerr County and hear 7 those cases. And, then, the second case is a probate case 8 that you're familiar with, Judge Henneke. It's the -- 9 JUDGE BROWN: Moriarty. 10 MS. HOLMES: -- Moriarty case that was 11 transferred. 12 JUDGE BROWN: The problem I had with that 13 case is, I had a family law -- you know, divorce case one 14 time, and it got appealed up to Court of Appeals. They came 15 back and said that I had no right, as a County Court at Law 16 judge, to construe a trust. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I was involved in that one, 18 too. 19 MS. HOLMES: There's a charitable trust. 20 JUDGE BROWN: Yeah, and -- well, there's a 21 trust to this one, so -- and they requested a statutory 22 county judge or whatever, and so I had to transfer it. 23 MS. HOLMES: They've assigned a judge out of 24 Denton County, and so he'll be coming here and we'll be 25 responsible for -- what they told me is that our county will 45 1 pay their county his salary, what his salary would be for 2 the days that he's down here, and then we'll have to 3 reimburse for lodging and meals and that type -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does Judge Ables also 5 make that assignment? 6 MS. HOLMES: Yes, he does, as the presiding 7 judge of this -- 8 JUDGE BROWN: Well, he asks -- requests 9 another presiding judge to make the assignment. It kind of 10 goes around, but anyway -- 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, that's $5,000? 12 MS. HOLMES: So -- you know, and that's just 13 a guess. You know, we don't have any -- and it may be a lot 14 less than that. It could be more, but just -- it's hard to 15 know. 16 JUDGE BROWN: So that's why we got stuck with 17 that. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 19 MS. HOLMES: And then the other thing that we 20 had asked was a printer for the courtroom, in Capital 21 Outlay. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's $600. 23 MS. HOLMES: That was about $600, uh-huh. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions on the County 25 Court at Law budget? 46 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: $600 in Capital 2 Outlay? I didn't have that here. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For a printer. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six plus $350? Or 5 enough to get you the -- 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: $600 total. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: $600 total. 8 MS. HOLMES: The $350 was for last year. 9 $600 all together, yes, sir. We don't have a copy machine 10 in the courtroom, and it would really be nice to have one 11 for us to use. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you, Judge, 13 Barbara. 14 MS. HOLMES: Thank you. 15 JUDGE BROWN: Thank you. 16 (Discussion off the record.) 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next up is Mr. Duncan, 18 Collections Department. 19 MR. DUNCAN: Yes, sir. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, fresh meat. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Revenue side. 22 MR. DUNCAN: Y'all were using my name when -- 23 before I came in here when I couldn't defend myself. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You were in here. 25 MR. DUNCAN: Well, no, I came in on the tail 47 1 end of it. If I can speak to that for a moment -- 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Where is he? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: He's also on the same tab, at 4 the back. 5 MR. DUNCAN: -- we are doing some things that 6 goes along with what the County Attorney and the -- the 7 County Clerk -- with their things. But, with the approval 8 of the County Court at Law Judge, when people are issued 9 bonds now at the court -- or at that time when they're 10 magistrated, this form is filled out and attached to their 11 bond, and a copy of it's given to them, and it's worked in 12 several other counties. The cost was very minimal, like 112 13 bucks to have the forms printed. They're NCR forms, and it 14 tells them their range of punishment, it tells them if they 15 want to plead out in advance, to contact the County 16 Attorney's office. It tells them be there, be prepared with 17 at least $500, although your fine -- the cost may total more 18 or less. Any necessary payment arrangements can be made in 19 no more than three months. No personal checks accepted. 20 And then the bottom line, which we try and 21 cut down on court-appointed attorneys, it says if you wish 22 to contest the charges against you, you are strongly advised 23 to hire a lawyer well before your court date. This will 24 usually be about 6 to 8 weeks between now and your court 25 date, which is really more like 8 to 12 weeks. And, a 48 1 lawyer -- and, you know, on your court date, you are 2 given -- you won't be given any more time to hire one. You 3 cannot expect extra time after your court date to hire an 4 attorney. This is already in the process out there, and -- 5 and it's -- we really haven't had an impact yet, because 6 it's been a few days, you know. We just started it, and so 7 it, you know, it will take us three or four months to see 8 what the impact is. As -- as far as my budget goes, I've 9 asked for an increase in postage of $200. We're doing more 10 courts, more defendants, which just hits us with more mail 11 and more postage. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, that would be at 13 $600? 14 MR. DUNCAN: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: All right, thank you. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So the requested 17 numbers don't reflect increases? 18 MR. DUNCAN: No. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. Because 20 their instructions were, you have to request the same bottom 21 line as you had last time. 22 MR. DUNCAN: Yeah. See, I presented what was 23 last year, and then I asked for any over and above that. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 25 MR. DUNCAN: Office supplies. Once again, 49 1 it's just a thing that goes along with -- the more work we 2 do, the more paper we use, the more everything we use. I've 3 asked for a $200 increase in that. Credit records, reports, 4 the same thing, is that we -- with more defendants, we're 5 running more Social Security numbers to find people once 6 they abscond. So, there's just an increase in that. It 7 just goes along with it. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Russ, I have a question 9 on all these. 10 MR. DUNCAN: Yeah? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I thought that when we -- 12 we've worked through all the backlog, and I can understand 13 that we're -- we have more cases that we're doing at all 14 levels of the court. We've also gotten rid of all that 15 backlog. 16 MR. DUNCAN: We haven't got rid of it. We've 17 still got some stuff. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- there may be some 19 back there, but, I mean, seems to me that we're close to 20 getting rid of a lot of that backlog and that -- the work 21 that you're doing shouldn't that many more cases. 22 MR. DUNCAN: Believe it or not, it is. 23 We're -- and we've still got the backlog of old cases; we're 24 still running stuff. I've cleaned up to 1988. I'm still 25 working '88, '89, '90 stuff, and we're working -- for Austin 50 1 right now, we're working mainly stuff in the '90's and -- I 2 mean, other -- from '91, '92, '93, '94, '95. We probably 3 haven't got more than 300 outstanding accounts on those 4 dates, but -- 'cause I've spent time on the '90's. I've 5 kind of let the '80's stuff go to the wayside, because the 6 older the money is, the harder it is to collect. So, I've 7 been trying to get easy money. And, yeah, hopefully we'll 8 get that done, but it's still -- and we're doing more cases. 9 The case load in County Court at Law goes up. In District 10 Court yesterday, we had a 9-page docket in District Court. 11 It just seems never to end, and we're doing the best we can. 12 By the way, we are looking at another program 13 that, rather than a dollar every time we run somebody on the 14 social security number, that's going to be 25 cents. And, I 15 haven't -- of course, we get two weeks free of it, and I 16 haven't got that yet. When I do that, I can evaluate it. 17 That might cut it. The big thing is we don't spend what we 18 don't get. In other words, we don't try to find someplace 19 to stick it, we only spend what we can get. On the books 20 and publications, we're looking at $50. I get the statewide 21 Law Enforcement Directory, and I get the Polk Directory and 22 I get a new criminal procedures book, so we keep up on that, 23 but other than that, we don't have a whole bunch of books. 24 But book prices are going up. 25 Search programs is $500. Mainly what that is 51 1 in there, I had been paying out of my own pocket for the 2 last four years for a couple of the programs that we've been 3 using on the computers down there. Every month, on my Visa 4 card, I get get a little whack. That's been the programs. 5 And so what I'm asking is, if we're making enough money now, 6 I'm going to the County to pick up that, where I don't have 7 to pay that out of my own pocket any longer. That's 8 about -- one program is, like, $19.95 a month that we use, 9 and the other one -- I forget right offhand, but it's not 10 going to be that much. And we don't -- like I say, we don't 11 do that now. We probably won't -- probably, if we don't use 12 it, it will still be there. Telephones have been an 13 increase this year because of all the new lines and stuff 14 that's been installed. My phone bills have just gone 15 skyrocket, and I just ran out of money; I had to transfer 16 some money around to get through the year. 17 Machine repair. I don't know what's going to 18 break. Everything we've got down there is old, but, you 19 know, right now I'm getting by. And, that's a -- that's an 20 iffy. I don't know whether it's going to break or not 21 break. Conference and travel, $600. We would like to go 22 with conferences. For instance, I travel most of the time; 23 I never charge the County for anything I go to, and the only 24 conference I charged was one down in Corpus Christi. I only 25 charged for my hotel bill. I paid my own travel and my own 52 1 food, so I try to keep that debt down. I mean, I -- I don't 2 try to sponge off the County. I figure I've got to eat no 3 matter where I am. And if I drive down, I'm traveling at 4 a -- at less cost, so I just pay my own way. Beaumont trip, 5 I didn't charge the County. I just did my own thing and 6 paid my own way. 7 Capital Outlay. I've asked for a new 8 computer, because the one computer we just got rebuilt, 9 thanks to Tommy, and it's good, but the other one -- I've 10 got Thea's old -- old computer, and it is -- it shakes, 11 rattles, and rolls, and locks up on me and gives me a fit, 12 and I cuss at it, but it and I are getting along right now. 13 And, I -- once again, that's when I had to put a new sound 14 card in and I put some memory into it, and I bought it out 15 of my own pocket and put it in. Just went over here and buy 16 a card, stick it in there. Not a big thing. 17 The Cluster Grant Pilot Program. I talked to 18 the governor's office as recently as day before yesterday. 19 The office that handles that Criminal Justice Office up 20 there in the governor's office, as y'all well know, has just 21 had a big shake-up. The executive director that was there 22 is no longer there. He didn't lose his job, but I think 23 they put him counting 4 by 5 cards somewhere, and Jay Kimbro 24 has been moved into that position, and he's got a lot of 25 cleaning up to do. The office was -- had some serious 53 1 problems, and Jay is working on doing that. But, what has 2 happened is the grants and the review of the grants has 3 gotten stalled. In talking to the governor's office, they 4 said it may be two weeks or it may be six weeks before the 5 review of the grant is final and the grant comes through. 6 So, that's -- 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Russ, would you tell 8 us who Jay Kimbro is? 9 MR. DUNCAN: Oh. Jay Kimbro used to be our 10 Assistant County Attorney here. 11 (Discussion off the record.) 12 MR. DUNCAN: I tried to get him to come back; 13 he wouldn't. By the way, I talked to -- I talked to a 14 couple of the other counties that are using this plea. The 15 reason I suggested this to the County Attorney's office, to 16 the County Court at Law, is because, in working in with 17 Gillespie County, which I deal with half a day a week, I see 18 the money coming in on the first day. People bring it with 19 them when they come to court, and Tammy Keener's had a great 20 job of doing that. I just -- in talking to Kendall County 21 and Gillespie County, who also use this, they get the same 22 amount of results with it. 23 I brought up a couple here that -- that are 24 used by Tammy Keener so that y'all could take a look at 25 these. These are the pleas as they go out. I asked for 54 1 their input of -- of what the impact has been, and Tammy 2 said it just means more money coming in. But, then, Tammy 3 Keener does about 3,500 cases a year. Kendall County does 4 anywhere -- they have been doing, in the past few years, 800 5 to 900 cases, but this year they're looking at a heavier 6 work load. Kendall County told me that one of the reasons 7 that their cost is going to impact on this year was before, 8 what used to happen is this plea used to go out in the same 9 mailing that the County Clerk sent out to give them their 10 court date, and they cut down on the amount of expenditure 11 mailing. But, the new County Court at Law Judge in Kendall 12 County has decided he wants the County Attorney's office to 13 mail them out under separate cover, so there's going to be 14 some more cost. And, I asked her what the cost was going to 15 be and she said, "Well, probably somewhere around $1,000 to 16 $2,000. She couldn't guess, because they're just starting 17 out their year, and they don't know. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what you're 19 suggesting now, they go out under separate cover? 20 MR. DUNCAN: Well, no. I just think we need 21 to use the program. See, I'm always looking at the dollar. 22 The quicker we get the dollar, the quicker the dollar goes 23 into the coffers of the County, and the longer it's out 24 there, the harder it is to collect. You know, the older the 25 money gets out there, the harder it is to get. I mean, you 55 1 know, after 90 days, it's hard to get. It starts getting 2 old, and we like to get it fresh. I know I've tried to get 3 the money up front. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: See, Russ, this way the 5 caseload's going to go down, so we can reduce the amount. 6 MR. DUNCAN: I'd like to work myself out of a 7 job. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I started to say 9 earlier that this will put Russ out of business. 10 MR. DUNCAN: Well, it would be great. I 11 would love it. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So you don't need all the 13 increases you have in your budget. 14 MR. DUNCAN: No, that's right. No, I -- let 15 me tell you, I'm -- as y'all well know, I have been a 16 half-time employee here for -- 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, here we go. 18 MR. DUNCAN: -- 19 and a half -- no, and I -- 19 I would like to someday work my way out of a -- as a matter 20 of fact, I'm going to Florida in two weeks to buy me a house 21 on a lake down there. So -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're paying you too 23 much. 24 MR. DUNCAN: Huh? 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See if you can find a 56 1 5-bedroom. 2 MR. DUNCAN: Good fishing down there, big 3 mouth bass. But, anyway, you know, if you have any 4 questions, I'll be glad to answer them. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anyone have any 6 questions about the -- 7 MR. DUNCAN: By the way, I have to tell 8 you -- you were talking about collections. Our collections 9 for new money is holding at about about 89 percent. Our old 10 money in the last two months, for some reason, has dropped 11 down to about 77 percent. It may be because I'm spending 12 too much time on new stuff, not enough time on old stuff, 13 but -- but I have to keep y'all advised. That's the way the 14 trend goes, kind of goes up and down. It's just one of 15 those things. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a question. 17 MR. DUNCAN: Sure. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I've slept since this -- this 19 court order about the $11,648. Is this our match? Or 20 what's -- 21 MR. DUNCAN: Yeah -- no, part of that's our 22 match. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's the whole grant, and 24 we administer the grant, so we have to show all of the 25 expenses and then we get reimbursed by the other counties 57 1 for their share. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Oh. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Ends up costing Kerr County 4 about $2,700, I think, something like that. 5 MR. DUNCAN: That's right. That's just 6 everybody's -- what will happen is, we have to pay the money 7 to match the grant, and then each of the counties we collect 8 from -- Hondo -- Medina County pays $4,000-something. It's 9 $2,000 for Gillespie. It breaks down that way. Here it is 10 right here. Bandera County is $2,004. Gillespie County is 11 2,460. Medina is $4,548. Kerr County is $2,637, for a 12 total of $11,649.48. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: This is just a comment 15 for -- Tommy, you might know. On 485, Tommy, I think 16 there's a typo. That should say "Conferences and Travel," 17 not "Conferences and Search Programs." 18 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thanks, Russ. Let's 20 take a break come back at 11 o'clock. 21 (Recess taken from 10:45 a.m. to 11:00 a.m.) 22 - - - - - - - - - - 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We'll reconvene this 24 budget workshop session of the Kerr County Commissioners 25 Court. The next topic for discussion are the District 58 1 Courts. I believe Becky Henderson is here to respond to any 2 questions or make a presentation. This is Tab Number 5, 3 gentlemen. Becky? 4 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you have anything you want 6 to tell us about? 7 MS. HENDERSON: Not unless you have any 8 questions. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: The budget, to me, is well 10 laid out, details the increases under the notes. 11 MS. HENDERSON: Only thing that we do need to 12 remember is we have that capital murder case, once it's 13 resolved. That will be in one of the two courts, and so 14 that will be -- and projected probably -- well, it depends 15 on when they solve it. Probably next year sometime. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you think you have enough 17 here in Special Trials to cover that? 18 MS. HENDERSON: I think it's going to go in 19 the $189,248 right now, I think. Let me see what I have in 20 that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is this the double 22 murder? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 24 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. There's no way of 25 telling. I mean, there's just no way of knowing. I would 59 1 think so. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: I think that's -- there's 3 just no way of knowing. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Becky, is that 5 wrongful death civil suit in this budget year or next budget 6 year? 7 MS. HENDERSON: Which one is that? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Blackthorn. 9 MS. HENDERSON: Oh, I have not heard back 10 from them. They were supposed to call me once it was sent 11 back down from Federal Court. I have not heard anything 12 from them, so -- and I don't even know if -- last I heard, 13 they were still planning on bringing it here, but that could 14 change also. So -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We should all -- 16 MS. HENDERSON: I would probably say next 17 year, next budget year, but that shouldn't cost us anything. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought we had to 19 front the expense, whatever it is. 20 MS. HENDERSON: Yeah, that's true. We do 21 have to, up front. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: But that actually comes -- we 23 don't have any judicial people involved. That really comes 24 out, in fact, of the Sheriff's budget more than it does 25 anybody else. 60 1 MS. HENDERSON: We may not have to front 2 that. Bexar County's pretty good about getting it to us. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We just have to put 4 up with all the press being here. 5 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Becky, I have one 7 question, please. 8 MS. HENDERSON: Okay. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's see. We're -- 10 216th, or just District Courts. 11 MS. HENDERSON: Okay. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Line 402, 13 Court-Appointed Attorney. 14 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is it -- and this may 16 not be a question for you; I don't know. Is it -- is it 17 available -- is the law available to us that Russ Duncan can 18 collect that? 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To recover for the 21 County those court-appointed attorneys? 22 MS. HENDERSON: When someone is sentenced in 23 court and they take a plea or whatever it is, the amount -- 24 the Court-appointed attorney is put in that plea, that they 25 have to pay it back to the County. 61 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, it is? 2 MS. HENDERSON: Yes. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It's already there? 4 MS. HENDERSON: And before Russ came along, 5 we didn't have anybody that was actually on, but now that 6 Russ is there, I would think that he would be collecting. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, you answered my 8 question. 9 MS. HENDERSON: That would be part of the -- 10 but it is -- whenever a judgment is signed, it always is put 11 in there that -- the Judge always asks the -- asks the 12 attorney how many hours. If he says two, it's $140 they 13 have to pay back to the County. It's normally done at $5 or 14 $10 a month, but it is supposed to be paid back. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wonder, is that done 16 down here too? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't know. You'd have to 18 ask. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or is that a standard 20 form? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's done in juvenile court, 22 and we're having good really good collection -- 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- success. 25 MS. HENDERSON: Russ has done a really good 62 1 job of getting a lot of that, so I know he is collecting it 2 along with the other stuff. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Great. Fantastic. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Becky, the other -- in court, 5 I believe it was Monday, someone raised the question of 6 special court reporters. 7 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: What under circumstance -- 9 since each court has a court reporter assigned to it, under 10 what circumstances is there a special court reporter? Could 11 you kind of explain that to us? 12 MS. HENDERSON: Yes, sir. When I -- we use 13 visiting judges. When we have to have a visiting -- say, 14 Judge Ables is in Bandera. We got a case that needs to be 15 heard in Kerrville. Then we have to have a visiting judge 16 come in. We have to have a court reporter to fill in with 17 that visiting judge, and that's what it generally -- that's 18 what that's for. And, if -- you know, at vacation time, 19 when our court reporters take their two weeks or three weeks 20 vacation, then a court reporter has to fill in for the 21 Judge. But, normally, the special court reporter is for the 22 visiting judges when we use them. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any 24 questions about the District Court budgets? 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Very little change. 63 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thank you, Becky. 2 Appreciate it. 3 MS. HENDERSON: Okay, thank you. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That was both of them? 5 Both District Courts? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. All right. Under Tab 7 Number 6 are the District Attorneys. I don't know that 8 we're going to have anybody here representing the District 9 Attorneys. Donnie Coleman's in the building. She's busy 10 upstairs. She may or may not get down. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't even see 12 216th. 13 MS. SOVIL: We never got one. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I guess we won't give them 15 any money. 16 MR. TOMLINSON: I have the -- Kerr County's 17 share. 18 MS. SOVIL: We never got anything for our 19 books. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: For 216th. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: I just -- I thought I made 22 one up, but I guess I didn't. But, I do have it. It's -- 23 in fact, it's down $10,000. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: We like it. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's good. 64 1 MR. TOMLINSON: We have an advantage of -- of 2 his office, in that I keep his records for him. And, 3 when -- when there's a surplus left over from -- from the 4 prior year, I use that surplus to credit among the four 5 counties. So, if he has any -- if he has any that he didn't 6 use, I'll use it the next year. And, also, with the way his 7 court -- or his office expense is allocated among the four 8 counties in the district, when Boerne -- when we got the -- 9 the population for Bandera and -- and Kendall Counties, 10 theirs went up so high, it caused Kerr County's and 11 Gillespie County's to go down. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Good. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, let me ask you 15 a question. On this 198th District Attorney's office, as an 16 example, the -- the investigator. When we do a salary 17 increase in our county, let's see, we do the 2.5 percent 18 salary increase for County employees. Is -- you're shaking 19 your head no already. Is this -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Considered -- he's not 21 a part of that group. 22 MR. TOMLINSON: No, he's not our employee. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, how do -- and we 24 share his salary with all those other counties in the 198th. 25 How is it determined how much a salary increase he gets? Do 65 1 we -- do we just -- does Kerr County drive that? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I guess you do if you 3 approve his budget. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: We have the biggest -- the 5 biggest oar in that -- in that pond, so if we were to -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- not authorize the 8 substantial increase they've requested, then they'd have to 9 come back. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let's say we took off 11 a couple of thousand dollars off of this request here. The 12 other counties will just go along with it? 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: They may or they may not. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: They may or may not. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's a 20 percent 16 hit, what Buster's talking about. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: I know. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I was just kind of 19 wondering about that, how they -- do we have a conference 20 call with the other counties and work it out on the phone, 21 or how is it done? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, that's always been a 23 problem with district salaries. I mean, there's been -- 24 there's been times when -- in the -- not especially in this 25 budget, but in the District Court budgets, that some 66 1 counties have -- have not gone along with whatever the 2 increase is, or -- or one county has given one percentage to 3 all their employees and another County's given another 4 percentage, and -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: -- and so one's higher than 7 the other. And this is -- typically, it's close enough 8 that -- that it's really immaterial. I mean, the amount of 9 money. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, what would be 11 the reason for the bonding to go up 50 percent? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: The what? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Bonds and insurance. 14 More people? Or -- or rate increases? 15 MR. TOMLINSON: For the -- 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: 198th District 17 Attorney's office. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't know. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm wondering -- based on 20 the comments Bill made, I noticed that too. It sounded as 21 if -- you know, health insurance increase. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe so. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: And I think that should just 24 be what it is. You know, instead of them projecting an 25 increase. Do you need to look at this? Do you have one of 67 1 these, Tommy? It's Tab Number 6 in our books. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 'Cause that's the only 3 way that that insurance could -- based on the comment -- I 4 mean, insurance for professionals, you know, shouldn't -- 5 whatever amount of professional liability, it shouldn't be 6 any kind of cost like that. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I wouldn't think so. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's almost got to 9 be. 10 MR. TOMLINSON: It has to be health 11 insurance. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, if -- if it is 13 health insurance, then it should be separated out from 14 bonds, to me. But, you know, we got to pay it either way, 15 but -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: And, again, it should be just 17 what it is. It should be a number, really, that's 18 generated -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: I think -- I'm not sure about 20 this. I think I remember a discussion with Donnie, maybe, 21 that they have -- they may have had one employee in their 22 office that had not been on -- had not had health insurance. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Comment Number 3 makes it 24 sound like it's a health insurance deal, "large increase in 25 cost of county health insurance." 68 1 MS. SOVIL: You might note in your budget 2 books that we do not approve a line item budget for them; we 3 just approve their lump sum. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Right. This -- you've kind 5 of got to treat this somewhat like the Adult Probation 6 Department in a fashion, because -- there she is. Speak of 7 the devil, here she is. 8 MS. COLEMAN: Does this mean I'm on? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're on. As a matter of 10 fact, you're almost done. 11 MS. COLEMAN: Thank you. I'm sorry, we had 12 -- we recessed upstairs. Do y'all have any questions? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Item 206, Bonds and 15 Insurance, that large increase, that's a health insurance 16 increase? 17 MS. COLEMAN: Yes. Yes. Last year, when we 18 did our budget request, it was -- there was a large increase 19 last year. When we did our budget request, we came in at 20 the old numbers, so that's what that figure is. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Do you know what it's 22 going to be, or an estimate? 23 MS. COLEMAN: That's an estimate based on -- 24 on the big increase last year. And I didn't realize -- 25 realize this hearing was today, and I don't have all of my 69 1 notes from when we figured it, but I think we figured the 2 current price plus, I think, a 5 percent increase. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, it's -- this 4 shows 50 on mine. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Whose insurance are you on? 6 Our insurance, or -- 7 MS. COLEMAN: Yes. There are five people in 8 our office who are included in this insurance figure. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: But that's Kerr County's 10 insurance? 11 MS. COLEMAN: No. Garvene Adams, myself, and 12 Todd Burdick are on Kerr County's insurance; we're all paid 13 through Kerr County. Janet Adams -- not Janet Adams -- 14 Janet Jones and Carla Mockford are paid -- Carla is carried 15 under the task force, and she's in the -- they're in the 16 Kimble County insurance plan. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: It's convoluted. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So -- but what I think 20 one of the factors here is that the 14, 4 that was requested 21 for the current year was low. It was not updated. So, 22 that's the reason it looks like it's so big. 23 MS. COLEMAN: Yes, sir, that's correct. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And it was not 25 updated, so if it wasn't updated for the current year, we're 70 1 actually looking -- that's a two-year-old request at 14, 4, 2 and this would bring it current. 3 MS. COLEMAN: We did not have sufficient 4 budgeted money last year to pay the insurance. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 6 MS. COLEMAN: The difference in the insurance 7 was paid through seizure money from drugs. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's -- they, in 9 essence, had to amend the budget last year, because that 14, 10 4 was low. 11 MS. COLEMAN: So, Ron just picked up the 12 difference out of -- the Kerr County Sheriff paid -- I mean, 13 the Kimble County Sheriff paid the difference with his 14 forfeiture money that our office got. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Donnie, I know you 16 don't need notes to talk about the investigator's salary 17 increase. Would you do that, please, just for a moment? 18 MS. COLEMAN: Well, this is -- is bringing 19 him -- it brings him current to where he is if -- if he were 20 here with the Sheriff's Department. If -- if we doubled 21 Todd's salary, it would not be enough to pay for what he 22 does. He works probably a minimum of a 60-hour work week. 23 He works tremendously well with all the law enforcement 24 officers throughout the district. They all have a great 25 deal of respect for him. They can call him at any time, 71 1 night and day, and he does -- he does a phenomenal job. 2 He -- he has been working also for the 216th. He's -- 3 whoever needs him, he -- he goes in there and does that, and 4 he really works hard. And, like I say, we even -- a lot 5 bigger increase would still not pay what he was worth, with 6 his years of experience. He's at fingerprint school right 7 now, so he is today finishing his third and final 8 fingerprint certification course, and has actually testified 9 one time, I think, in court already as a fingerprint person. 10 Y'all may or may not know, we're short of fingerprint people 11 in this area since Lonnie Aycock left. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Why did Kerr County's share 13 go up so much, and others, except for Menard, actually go 14 down? 15 MS. COLEMAN: Well, technically -- 16 technically, your budget -- your portion of our budget 17 should be 70 percent, a fee based just on the population of 18 the counties. But, what I've always used before is a figure 19 that combines case load with population, and I average those 20 two. And, last year, Kerrville had 38 percent of our 21 indictments, 42 percent of our M.T.R., 73 percent of all our 22 trials, 87 and a half percent of all our appeals, making the 23 case load figure a little bit lower still than your figure. 24 But, that's -- that's really why it is. It's moved up this 25 year, your percentage of our budget, moved up from 72 1 61 percent up to 65 percent. And, that's -- that's one of 2 the reasons for the large increase. It's still below the 70 3 percent, but the other counties have never complained about 4 that, because they feel that -- that even though the law 5 says you split on population, the other counties are 6 agreeable that it should be -- that the actual work you do 7 in that county should be factored in there. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Any questions or 9 comments? 10 MS. COLEMAN: Did you understand about my 11 retirement? My request for to you pay on my retirement? If 12 not, I'd like to explain that. Ron supplements my salary, 13 there, again, with drug forfeiture money. And I will say 14 that, even with the -- even with what he's paying me, I'm 15 still $2,000 short of the average for prosecutors with my 16 years of service. But, in the past, that money has just 17 been paid directly and there's been no retirement or 18 anything withheld from that money. And, I'm asking Kerr 19 County if -- and all of these counties this year, if they 20 would pay retirement on that money so that that money can go 21 into the system too, and it would be $840. He pays me 22 $1,000 a month. That is -- is not currently going through 23 the retirement system. And, I checked with Tommy and made 24 sure that there won't be any problem in doing that if the 25 counties agreed to fund that. It makes a whopping big 73 1 difference when it comes to retirement time. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone? Okay. Thanks, 3 Donnie. We appreciate it. 4 MS. COLEMAN: Thank you. Thank, y'all. 5 JUDGE PROHL: I just got down here. Y'all 6 already did me? I -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Becky did you. You're 8 welcome to backstop -- 9 JUDGE PROHL: I didn't want you to think that 10 I was ignoring you. I was having a hearing, and she came in 11 and I got a little pop-up on the mail that says it's already 12 done. And, I looked at my watch; I said, "Well, I must have 13 missed something." If you have no questions of me, I'll go 14 back to my trial. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go get them. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thanks, Karl. Appreciate 17 it. 18 JUDGE PROHL: We appreciate it. Whatever 19 he's asking for is too much. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next up is D.P.S., which is 21 Item Number 18 -- Tab 18. Since Trooper Hall is here, we 22 can start with weights and measures -- License and Weights. 23 Travis, do you have anything you want to tell us about your 24 request? 25 MR. HALL: No, sir. I just came to see if 74 1 y'all had any questions. And, I'm also here for Sgt. Seale, 2 'cause he's in Austin teaching school. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. So -- 4 MR. HALL: So I didn't know if you had any 5 questions on either one of them that I can try to answer. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, the note at the 7 bottom there, is that on 5 -- category 570, is that to 8 purchase another radar unit and a GBS unit? 9 MR. HALL: Yes, sir. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I thought we purchased 11 a radar unit last year. 12 MR. HALL: We do, but I change it out every 13 year. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: What's the communications 15 line item for? 16 MR. HALL: On mine? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 18 MR. HALL: Pagers, telephone. That's it. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Pagers and telephone? 20 MR. HALL: Yes, sir. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: And the operating expense? 22 What's that? 23 MR. HALL: Different things that I need to 24 pick up, different office supplies, when I run out of paper 25 or -- or computer cartridges. 75 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you have an operating 2 expense line item from the State? No? 3 MR. HALL: No, sir. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: They expect to you do things 5 on -- they expect you to do without paper? 6 MR. HALL: Well, I can get a lot of it, but 7 if I run out in the middle of the month, I have to drive 100 8 miles to go get it. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: You have to go over to Austin 10 to pick it up? 11 MR. HALL: Yes, sir. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They make it hard on 13 you, don't they? 14 MR. HALL: Yes, sir. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Stepchild. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's go -- drop back 20 to the other one, the general. 21 MS. SOVIL: I think they're planning on being 22 here, Judge, and it was scheduled at 11:30. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Travis said he was 24 substituting for Sgt. Seale. 25 MS. SOVIL: Oh. 76 1 MR. HALL: He's having to give a test this 2 morning, final test, so he asked me to fill in. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Basically, what we do for the 4 general salary is provide the secretary and a couple radar 5 units every year; is that correct? 6 MR. HALL: Yes, sir. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's this $5,250 8 request, the radar stuff? 9 MR. HALL: And then their communications or 10 telephone. I don't remember how it's broken down. Isn't 11 there a telephone expense? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Telephone expense. 13 MR. HALL: Okay. Telephone expense is for 14 the -- the telephone line over at the Sheriff's Office that 15 we have to have for our intoxilizer. Every -- 'cause all of 16 the information is downloaded. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: He has a separate line item 18 for intoxilizer telephone. 19 MR. HALL: Okay, excuse me. I'm sorry. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's for the 21 telephone. I think that's for the unit and all. Isn't that 22 leased -- 23 MR. HALL: Yes, sir. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- or something? I 25 think that's for the unit, but the telephone cost includes 77 1 the actual transmission. 2 MR. HALL: Right. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The line for that. 4 MR. HALL: And then you pay for their pagers 5 also. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Travis, on the radars, 7 don't y'all still give them to the Sheriff's Department? 8 MR. HALL: Yes, sir, or trade them in. 9 Whichever -- whichever way we -- we normally check and see 10 if they're going to give us a good trade-in, we'll trade 11 them in. If they don't, we'll give them to the Sheriff's 12 Office for constables or whoever needs one. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So -- 14 MR. HALL: But -- but we -- we give them to 15 them, but kind of if one of ours goes down, we have to keep 16 a spare also, because those things will go out, just like 17 this new one y'all bought me. It's already gone out, and 18 I've had to go back to using my old one till I get the other 19 one fixed. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the useful 21 life of those units? 22 MR. HALL: Probably two to three years at the 23 most. I mean, in optimum conditions, before you really need 24 to kind of start watching them real close and go get them 25 redone and that type of deal. The antennas wear out. Like, 78 1 I mount mine on the outside of my vehicle, and you get 2 better range that way. Heat does a lot to them, you know, 3 when the cars are locked up. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? Comments? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: As I recall from our workshop 8 earlier, we're going to need an interlocal agreement with 9 D.P.S. to fund this. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, that opinion we 11 got, saying -- it says that you can do it, but you got to do 12 it with an interlocal agreement. Did you see that, Travis? 13 MR. HALL: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. It just says 15 you got to do it with an interlocal agreement. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be an 17 interlocal agreement with Austin? Or -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: No, I think it can 19 be -- 20 MR. HALL: Going to be with D.P.S. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Depends. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Austin or locally? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it would have to be 24 with Austin. 25 MR. HALL: It's going to be local, but what 79 1 we have to do is work -- we're going to have to turn it over 2 to our D.P.S. attorneys and let them review it. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Scrub it. 4 MR. HALL: Before we can sign it. We have to 5 go through our operating procedure and we -- any legal 6 documents like that; we have to take that our to our legal 7 staff and let them go over it before -- before they'll let 8 us sign it. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I will make -- 10 MR. HALL: That's what I've already been 11 instructed. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: I will make a request that 13 the County Attorney -- that he start working on an 14 interlocal agreement and just coordinate with D.P.S. legal 15 so we can get that taken care of. 16 MR. HALL: And I don't know who you need to 17 talk to. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I'll let them worry 19 about that. Let those durned attorneys talk to them durned 20 attorneys. 21 MR. HALL: Right. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why not? They 23 understand each other. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They understand each 25 other, yeah. 80 1 MR. HALL: Any other questions? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? Okay. 3 Thanks a lot. We appreciate it. 4 MR. HALL: Appreciate it. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you, Travis. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Travis, before you get 7 away, I've got a question for you. Just -- I think we are 8 about to take our lunch break. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're finished until 1:30. 10 (Discussion off the record.) 11 (Recess taken from 11:29 a.m. to 1:30 p.m.) 12 - - - - - - - - - - 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. It's 1:30 in the 14 afternoon on Friday, July 27th. We'll call back to order 15 the meeting for the Kerr County budget workshops. First 16 item for discussion this afternoon are the Justice of the 17 Peace 2, 3 and 4 budgets. We'll go in numerical order. 18 Number 2. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 2. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Come on down. This is Tab 8. 21 JUDGE WRIGHT: I don't want to be first. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Tab 8. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Number 1's already 24 been here. He said none of the J.P.'s needed any extra 25 money. 81 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either that or he said, 2 "I'll take it all." 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 4 JUDGE WRIGHT: Okay. And today is just 5 strictly the budget, right? Not salaries that we're 6 addressing? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 8 JUDGE WRIGHT: Is that correct? Okay. I 9 think you probably got mine. There's no changes on it. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's quick. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anybody want to argue with 12 that? 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you, Judge 14 Wright. 15 JUDGE WRIGHT: Any questions? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 17 JUDGE WRIGHT: Except I'm not taking anything 18 for Capital Outlay; I don't need anything. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I started to say that 20 was the only question I had, Judge, was the -- what do you 21 think -- you must feel pretty certain you're not going to 22 need any. 23 JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, you should see my new 24 beautiful shelving. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Oh, yeah. 82 1 JUDGE WRIGHT: Well, it's used, but it's new 2 to me, and it's beautiful. But, no, I can't think of 3 anything. And we've got a new State levy that you're aware 4 of that's going to probably help us further our computer 5 systems, and down the road I'll be asking for some of that. 6 But -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We've already adopted that 8 effective October 1st. So, over the course of the next 9 budget year, we ought to be able to accumulate -- 10 JUDGE WRIGHT: Sorry? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Of course, in the next budget 12 year, we ought to be able to accumulate a nice little kitty 13 to use for -- 14 JUDGE WRIGHT: At that time, I might like to 15 talk to you about a scanner, but right now, no. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thanks, Dawn. 17 Appreciate it. 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks, Dawn. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mr. Tench? 20 JUDGE TENCH: Good afternoon. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Good afternoon. 22 JUDGE TENCH: I have no changes over what was 23 submitted. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Does anybody have any 25 questions about what was submitted? 83 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Conferences, 485, 3 increased. Is there a problem that -- I believe back on 4 Dawn's -- why you were lower than the others? 5 JUDGE TENCH: Before? 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 7 JUDGE TENCH: Because I didn't catch up with 8 them. They snuck one by me, sir. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Honest man. 11 JUDGE TENCH: Well, I just yesterday went to 12 a legislative update, and I was concerned that I wouldn't 13 have enough money in my budget to do it. I had to be very 14 frugal to get up there and back and do what I had to do to 15 come within the $900 cap that I had. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? You 17 show an increase in your lease copier, Bob. Is that for 18 increased number of copies? 19 JUDGE TENCH: My lease copier is -- has got a 20 copy charge. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 22 JUDGE TENCH: I was not aware of that last 23 year when they -- I lowered the budget last year for the 24 lease copier, and then all of a sudden, I started getting 25 copy charges. Every three or four months, I'd get a copy 84 1 charge, and I was concerned that I'm not going to have 2 enough money to handle that this year. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any other questions 4 for Judge Tench? Okay, thanks. Mr. Ragsdale. 5 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Yes. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any -- any questions? 7 Anybody have any? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. Are you sure 9 you want to lower your postage? Everybody else in the 10 universe is going up. 11 JUDGE RAGSDALE: It's fine. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Why do you get $1,400 for 14 conferences? 15 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Pardon me? 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I said why do you get 17 14 -- 18 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well -- 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh, it's further to 20 drive. It's further to drive in the from the western part. 21 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, I anticipate -- they 22 have closed the trip -- I mean, there is no more conference 23 in Austin, so I'll either have to go to Corpus or Arlington, 24 so that's going to increase costs this next year, plus these 25 schools -- or the State is picking up less of the tab each 85 1 year on conferences. The grants -- the grants -- we get a 2 court cost; we charge court costs for court personnel 3 training, for judge and court personnel training. Then the 4 Court of Criminal Appeals is the one who doles the money 5 out, and they are giving -- they are not raising any of the 6 dish-outs to any of the schools, so the prices of all the 7 schools have gone up, so the services to us are diminished 8 and we're having to pick up more. If I get a chance to go, 9 I don't always -- what I do is try to plan for how many of 10 those that I'll go to. If I can go, I can go, and if I 11 don't, I don't spend the money. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess my only 13 question -- my question is, if you need $1,400, I think all 14 the J.P.'s probably need $1,400. If they need $1,200, I 15 think it should be the same. 16 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Maybe we can carpool. I 17 don't know. But, I -- you know, Bob may take the bus. I 18 don't know. 19 JUDGE TENCH: I ride my bike. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions of 21 Mr. Ragsdale? 22 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Buster can give me a ride. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm going. 24 JUDGE RAGSDALE: But, anyway, I think that's 25 just about it. Anything else, gentlemen? 86 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think so, Bill. 2 Thanks a lot. 3 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Okay, thank you. Now, we 4 didn't do travel at this time, have we? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, that's a salary item. 6 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Is it really? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. It's considered a 8 salary item for purposes of public hearings and all that 9 kind of stuff. So -- 10 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, isn't it -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's the same for a 12 number of positions. It's not just -- 13 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Well, but it really isn't 14 salary, though, is it? Isn't it -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, it's a salary in the 16 sense that you don't have to -- it's a salary in the sense 17 you don't have to justify it. You don't have to turn in 18 mileage, you don't get so much per mile. You just get a 19 lump sum, so -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It goes in your paycheck, 21 and I bet they take -- I don't know. Do they take benefits 22 out of that? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: It is salary. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is salary, so that's why 25 it's treated differently. 87 1 JUDGE RAGSDALE: But my question is, should 2 it really be done that way? Because, in essence, it's -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: There's the Auditor. 4 Ask him. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think it's the 6 I.R.S. -- 7 JUDGE RAGSDALE: Does the I.R.S. consider 8 that earned income? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: You have two choices. Either 10 do it like this, or -- or have a mileage log of -- that you 11 can show and prove how many -- how many miles you drove and 12 all that. 13 JUDGE RAGSDALE: I've always wondered about 14 that. Thank you. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're welcome. Okay, thank 16 you. Next item is the constables, which is Tab 16. 17 JUDGE WRIGHT: Are we excused? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. Let's see. Is Don 19 coming? Don McClure? 20 MR. AYALA: He's on vacation, I heard. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: He's on vacation? 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't see much 23 change. Office supplies and dues is about it. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. He actually went down 25 $11 or something like that. Okay. We'll go to Number 2, 88 1 then, Joel. 2 MR. AYALA: Bottom dollar is the same as last 3 year. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You took care of your 5 $500 gas problem, I see. 6 MR. AYALA: Yes, thank you. And I did in 7 this year's budget; I asked for a gasoline line item to put 8 that back in. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anything -- anyone 10 have any questions? 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hold on a minute. 12 Well, explain to me about the gasoline, just so I'll know. 13 MR. AYALA: Well, last year I had 14 requested -- when we were doing this last year -- requested 15 that the $500 that was in my previous budget that was in the 16 equipment repair be moved up to my monthly travel, and it 17 was -- it was agreed to do that, but somehow or other it 18 didn't get there and it didn't get back in my equipment 19 repair line item, so it was taken out of my budget 20 completely. And a couple weeks ago, y'all restored that 21 back in my budget. So, I'm just making a line item this 22 year specifically for gasoline. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Joel, wouldn't it be 25 better if you just rolled that into your travel? 89 1 MR. AYALA: That's what I tried to do last 2 year. It just didn't make it. 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tommy, instead of 4 having a separate line item for gasoline, wouldn't be it be 5 better just to roll that $500 into travel? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: It makes no difference. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what I thought 8 the travel was. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: It's taxable to the 10 recipients. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pardon? 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I said it's taxable to the 13 recipient. 14 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, yeah. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: If that's the choice. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the reason not 17 to do it, then. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If you pay for 19 gasoline up to $500, it's not taxable. If you put it into 20 travel, it is. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Of course, he has to 22 show receipts for that, does he not? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. All right. 25 Whatever works best. 90 1 MR. TOMLINSON: So, I mean, but on the other 2 hand, there -- it's also -- I mean, if you wanted to -- if 3 you wanted to include that $500 in travel, it would be $500 4 more that you could earn retirement benefits to, also. 5 So -- 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six of one, half a 7 dozen of the other. 8 MR. AYALA: Right. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's important 10 that all four of the constables are the same here. I mean, 11 they all drive roughly the same and they all use, I mean, 12 the same amount of gas, so if there's -- if you're going to 13 add a gasoline line item for one, you need to add it for all 14 of them. Or you address the whole issue when we talk 15 about -- when we do the travel, when we do the salaries. 16 MR. AYALA: See, in the previous budget, it 17 was in the Equipment Repair line item, which I don't have 18 any equipment, so I wanted it in gasoline. I use more 19 gasoline than I do repair equipment. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So do I. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: So, do you have a 22 preference whether it's a separate line item, which you have 23 to receipt for, or put it in travel, which is taxable and -- 24 but eligible for pension contributions? 25 MR. AYALA: I think in the -- I'd prefer it 91 1 in the gasoline line item. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Tommy, why is it 4 Precinct 1 does not have a -- a gasoline? I mean, is there 5 a reason? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Basic reason is, he's never 7 asked for it. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: That's a good answer. You 9 know, that's all that I know of. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's good enough for 11 me. 12 MR. AYALA: If I recall, whenever y'all gave 13 the constables that $500 in the -- probably the '99/2000 14 budget, I think Don gave his $500 to Kari. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think you're right, 17 Joel. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: God, Joel, you've got 19 a great mind. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, that's right. I 21 remember. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I believe I recall 23 that. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions for Joel? 25 Okay. Thanks. 92 1 MR. AYALA: Thank you. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Angel? 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 MR. GARZA: Good afternoon, Judge, 5 Commissioners. If I could enter -- just put some more 6 information on the gasoline or the travel, I'm not sure -- I 7 may be corrected on this, but I think the constables were 8 all given, like, $1,800 as their travel. What happened is, 9 when we got the $500 back in '99, it was given to put 10 wherever we wanted. I decided to put mine into the travel, 11 which made my travel, like, $2,300, you know, instead of 12 18 -- it was $1,800 plus the $500. So, if mine looked like 13 I was getting $2,300 and the other constables had $1,800, it 14 was not because I had just gotten more money for mine. It's 15 just that I decided to put the money there. 16 And, that's what happened at the last budget. 17 I put it there, but then it was a mixup in the -- in the 18 paperwork and it was taken away, and then I went ahead and 19 came back to Commissioners Court, and they put that money -- 20 so that money was put into the gasoline, and that's where I 21 decided I wanted to put my money to, because it's being 22 taxed in the $1,800. If I put it in the travel, it's taxed, 23 so I actually don't get $500 worth of gasoline usage. I 24 get, like, maybe, you know, $450 or whatever. So, I 25 would -- so, I decided to leave it this year also in the -- 93 1 in the -- under gasoline, where I actually get $500 worth of 2 gas, you know, that I can buy instead of, you know, less 3 when I put it into the travel. If that helps the Court out, 4 you know, that's why. All our travel is the same, $1,800 5 across-the-board, or that I've seen. I just decided to put 6 my $500 into the travel, like Joel said. Don decided to 7 give his money to his clerk, the $500 that we had been given 8 for, you know -- 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. I understand now. 10 MR. GARZA: But that was my -- you know, my 11 main thing is I kept within my budget. I just shifted some 12 of the money around, you know. I decided to keep the $500 13 where it's at, you know, 'cause as it stands now, we get $75 14 every two weeks for our gas under our travel, but, of 15 course, that's taxed. You know, but -- 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Bottom line, you have no 17 change, correct? 18 MR. GARZA: Yes. Yes, Commissioner. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Anything -- any other 20 questions for 3's constable? Thanks. Appreciate it. 21 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. Anything about the -- 22 the other wish list or anything? Is that -- 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, tell us about it. 24 MR. GARZA: Well, I mean, like -- well, for 25 the next fiscal year, if there's any funds available, we'll 94 1 be able to -- some of this might be able to be considered, 2 possibly? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: You talking about your goats? 5 MR. GARZA: Yes, sir. Yes, Judge. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. Well -- 7 MR. GARZA: That's basically -- like I said, 8 I mean, I know this is just, like you said, a wish list. 9 And -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: At the end of the year, we'll 11 -- at the end of the budget process, we'll stop and see 12 whether there's any money left, and then we'll decide -- 13 MR. GARZA: And consider giving us maybe a 14 little bit more into our basic budget, 'cause as it stands 15 now, it was $35,410 for 2000/2001, and that's the same 16 budget for the year. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. Okay. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 19 MR. GARZA: However the Court wants to help 20 me. Thank you. Thank you very much. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Bob? Your turn. 22 MR. TERRILL: Your Honor, Commissioners, 23 we're -- we're not going to talk salaries today, so I do 24 have some -- a request for a telephone of $400. That will 25 include the installation and should carry us through about 95 1 the operating costs for a year. We've got the workload in 2 the office to -- I think to justify this. They did -- it's 3 like it's like a busy freeway in there on the telephone 4 sometimes. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's Line Item 420, 6 and how much? 7 MR. TERRILL: $400. That's a new item for 8 me. We don't -- I haven't had one before. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What is is? $400? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yes, sir. 11 MR. TERRILL: That includes the installation, 12 instrument and operation and everything. It should carry it 13 for a year. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Does this bottom line 15 increase by $400? 16 MR. TERRILL: Yes, sir. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any other questions? 19 MR. TERRILL: Yes, sir. Just -- we're not 20 talking travel and we're not talking salaries, but I would 21 like some guidance on when I can present some information to 22 the Court for consideration to bring the -- I want to revamp 23 entirely the Precinct 4's budget to bring the deputy 24 constable up to a certain level, and my salary up to the 25 same level as all the other constables, because -- if you 96 1 don't want to get into it, I have some information here that 2 I could print it up -- print it up and I could pass it to 3 you for your consideration. And I would like to have some 4 more input on it at some time. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: My anticipation is that we'll 6 probably have a separate workshop sometime in the next three 7 weeks on elected official salaries. Since you are an 8 elected official, that would be the appropriate time to -- 9 to offer us that input. If you want to give us the written 10 information ahead of time so we can be looking at it -- 11 MR. TERRILL: Could I give it to Thea now, 12 where I could give each one of you a copy now? Thea, could 13 you please see that they get that? 14 MS. SOVIL: Yeah. 15 MR. TERRILL: And, for your consideration, 16 sir, I'm planning on going on a little trip about the 21st 17 of next month, and if there's any possibility of getting 18 that worked in anytime prior to -- 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we're going to have one, 20 we'll have one, because that's when we start -- really need 21 to go put everything together. 22 MR. TERRILL: I'd also like to commend the 23 Commission and everyone that's done some work on it, but we 24 had a little glitch last year on communications and 25 information coming from the Commissioners Court out to as 97 1 far out as we live out in the country. And, I've seen a lot 2 of improvement on that, especially with the e-mail and such 3 like that coming through Judge Ragsdale's e-mail. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, good. Thank you. 5 MR. TERRILL: A lot of help there. 6 Appreciate that. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you very much, Bob. I 8 think, you know, we're talking about the constables. When 9 we get into our elected officials discussions, that's when 10 we really need to have a serious discussion about equalizing 11 everything, 'cause right now, Constable 4 gets more salary 12 money than the other constables do, because he has a deputy. 13 And, I know -- I think -- I believe it's accurate, that the 14 original thought was, well, he could have a deputy, but he 15 takes the deputy's salary out of his salary. But, what has 16 happened over the years is, as we've given cost-of-living 17 increases, that has gotten skewed, so that now -- 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. If you total up 19 those two salaries, they add up to more than the -- 20 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Others. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- than the others are 22 getting, for $25,130-something versus 27-something, or 23 numbers about like that. I think there's a policy question 24 here, too. We need to decide whether we will have deputy 25 constables, one or more. And, it's a policy, and I think 98 1 it's sort of a policy issue we need to determine, and 2 probably now is not the time to do that. But, if -- if we 3 haven't -- I would ask this question. If the deputy in 4 Precinct 4 were to say tomorrow, "I quit," would Constable 5 Terrill hire another one? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: He -- legally, he would have 7 to come to Court for permission. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm assuming that that 9 was all okay. Would he -- 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Would he want to? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Would he want to hire 12 another one? I think what -- what I think is not important; 13 it's what he thinks. But -- but I have a suspicion that he 14 would not want to hire another one, because it decreases his 15 pay. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly what I 17 would do. 18 MR. TOMLINSON: He inherited that situation. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's right. And, 20 so, what I mean is -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Because of him. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because of the deputy. 23 MS. SOVIL: T.D. was on retirement and 24 couldn't earn more money than -- and that's how that 25 evolved. 99 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: My point is, though -- 2 is that -- is that I think we have a situation in Precinct 4 3 that's very specialized to the individuals involved -- or 4 individual, I should say, that's involved. And, I'm not 5 sure that anybody would renew it if the current deputy were 6 to say, "I quit." That's the issue. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's probably true. 8 I think, historically, what they've tried to do, though, 9 is -- like, in Precinct 1, they had a deputy hanging around 10 and -- well, we have a deputy now that is now our Solid 11 Waste guy. 12 THE WITNESS: Mm-hmm. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See, and the reason 14 they did that at that time is -- is so that the Solid Waste 15 guy -- you had to have a licensed officer in order to carry 16 your TCLEOSE license along. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that's probably a 18 good point. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't think that's 20 the case any more. I think the law has changed, where they 21 can't -- you don't have to have a sponsor. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: See, the -- what I 23 have been told is that the view of the constable is that 24 that deputy in Precinct 4 has to be a deputy to the 25 constable of Precinct 4; that that law enforcement or part 100 1 -- emergency, whatever constables do, a lawman, has to be a 2 deputy to the constable. I don't think that's true any 3 more. I think anybody could carry that -- any -- the 4 Sheriff, for example, that could be a part-time deputy. It 5 could be a reserve or something with expenses, or it can be 6 several things, I think. I don't think we're wired into the 7 way it's -- 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Oh, I don't either. 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The way it is right 10 now. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't either. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, so, it's a 13 policy. I don't -- I don't know enough about it to even 14 talk about it, probably, at this point, but I think it's 15 something we do need to address as a matter of policy. If 16 we need law enforcement presence in west Kerr County, and I 17 certainly don't have any objection to that, are we doing it 18 the way it should be done, is my question. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, what you're 20 talking about is if you have a deputy constable out there 21 and you pay him. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: What if you have a 24 deputy constable that works for free? Or ten deputy 25 constables that work for free? 101 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: In reserve or 2 whatever. I don't know whether constables have reserves 3 like Sheriffs have a reserve. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, he'd be a deputy 5 constable; just we wouldn't send him a paycheck. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Precinct 2, Carl Williams 7 had Mark Myer; he was unpaid. 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: He had Mark Myer for 9 a while. He came and asked the Court to do it for no pay. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And I don't know 11 whether the precinct or deputy would want to do that or not 12 for no pay. I don't know. I'm just saying it's a policy 13 issue we probably need to think about and find out what the 14 options are, and make some kind of policy decision of the 15 Court, 'cause this is going to come up every year, just like 16 it has in the last two years. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And this is the type of 18 thing that happens when you have -- you know, make an 19 exception to get something started one time to help the 20 previous constable out with what he wanted with his salary 21 situation. You make an exception for that, and then you end 22 up with a situation like we're in right now, where you have, 23 you know, an awkward situation. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Typical government. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If I remember, if 102 1 memory serves me correctly, Constable Williams came back to 2 the Court laterr and was looking for funding for that deputy 3 spot. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Exactly. That's the 5 other shoe that drops. You can plan on it. Just plan on 6 it. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It usually takes more 8 than 15 days, though. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The world's record is 11 two, two days. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Also, I think, though, 13 Jonathan, you make a good point. We need to equalize 14 allowances among the constables. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But I think that's -- I 16 mean, and Angel started talking about that a little bit. 17 When we give them $500 to put where they want and give a lot 18 more flexibility as to how they adjust it, that kind of 19 messes up that equalizing allowances. That's why I like, 20 really, to put it all in travel, where it's excluded from 21 the $500 or whatever, if anything, that we give them. And 22 it makes it easier to equalize if it's in the travel line 23 item, to me. That way they're putting their money where 24 they want it. If they want to have a gasoline line item in 25 addition to that, then they can put their $500 into that, 103 1 but otherwise, it's hard to keep it. Two, three years, you 2 get out of sync again. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Well, we got a few 4 minutes. Want to stretch or whatever? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think Commissioner 1 6 is. 7 (Recess taken from 1:57 p.m. to 2:00 p.m.) 8 - - - - - - - - - - 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. It's 2 o'clock in the 10 afternoon on Friday, July 27th. We'll resume our budget 11 workshops. The next topic for consideration are the 12 County-sponsored activities. Before we take a look at 13 these, let me just say, again -- let's just wait a minute 14 while everybody gets in. 15 (Discussion off the record.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Before we begin our 17 consideration of County-sponsored activities, let me again 18 repeat, for anyone who hasn't figured this out yet, that the 19 issue on county funds for social agencies is a legal one. 20 It is not a question of desire, it is not a question of the 21 services that are provided to the community, whether they're 22 worthwhile or not worth worthwhile. The issue is whether 23 Kerr County Commissioners Court has the legal ability to 24 take public funds and contribute them to social agencies. 25 That's the issue. We were advised by the County Attorney's 104 1 office, whenever we had our workshop back in March/April, 2 that there was substantial question over whether the 3 Commissioners Court had the legal ability to make those 4 contributions in the manner in which were were doing so, and 5 we have asked the County Attorney's office to get a 6 definitive answer to that question. 7 I understand from the newspapers that a 8 number of the social agencies that may or may not be 9 represented here in the courtroom have been contacted by the 10 Attorney General's office to provide information to the 11 Attorney General's office to assist them in making the 12 decision as to whether or not this Commissioners Court can 13 legally provide funds to those social agencies. So, that's 14 the dilemma that we're faced with. The Commissioners Court 15 is faced with the issue of whether we have the legal ability 16 to continue to provide funds for different social agencies. 17 There's been no question raised as to benefits the agencies 18 provide to the community. Many of us have served on the 19 boards of those agencies, and we all know people who are 20 currently on the boards, and our friends and neighbors, and 21 we support the activities of the agencies. It simply comes 22 down to a question of the legal ability. 23 For those of you who haven't heard this 24 speech before, County government is considered to be an arm 25 of the State Legislature. Unlike cities, counties do not 105 1 have the implied health, safety, and welfare powers. We are 2 restricted to those activities and those functions which we 3 have specific legislative authority for. We have very 4 little leeway in going beyond those statutes which tell us 5 exactly what we can do and exactly what we can't do. It's 6 like the issue with the Economic Development Fund. The 7 statute provides two vehicles for counties to engage in 8 economic development activities, neither of which is to 9 provide funds to the Kerr Economic Development Foundation. 10 So, we're looking into ways that we can continue to provide 11 funds for the economic development, within the requirements 12 of the law. And we're doing the same thing with regard to 13 the social agencies. So, when we ask y'all to tell us about 14 your agency today, and you've seen in the paper that we 15 haven't earmarked any funds for your agency, that's because 16 we don't know at this point that we can. 17 And, the Court has not made a decision 18 whether or not to budget funds for those agencies and wait 19 for the response from the Attorney General, or what to do. 20 We are in somewhat of a dilemma up here, because we are the 21 ones who are legally responsible for the funds, and I think 22 none of us are -- are interested in engaging in an activity 23 when we have information from our -- from your elected 24 County Attorney that indicates that we don't have the 25 statutory basis to do so. So, as we walk through this 106 1 budget workshop this afternoon, I hope y'all will keep in 2 mind that the issue, as far as we're concerned, is primarily 3 one of the legality of the method of providing funds. 4 Anyone else want to contribute? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I have a 6 question of you, Fred. Is it my -- my understanding is that 7 we can expect a -- an opinion from the A.G.'s office 8 sometime in December? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: The County Attorney's office 10 requested the opinion in June. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Right. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: And Attorney General Cornyn 13 has a policy of trying to turn opinion requests around 14 within 60 days, which would be mid-August. Now, all I know 15 is what I read in the paper. The paper said that the social 16 agencies, some of them had been contacted and asked to 17 provide information by September 15th, which would then 18 extend the deadline potentially out to December. Now, I 19 don't know that firsthand. Anyone else have any questions 20 or comments? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, one of the 22 thoughts that you can add to that is that we can always look 23 for other -- if we can't do it as a -- as a straight 24 donation contribution, as we have in the past, that we can 25 always look for other vehicles, if we can find one, that are 107 1 legal. And there may be some out there. We don't -- that's 2 part of the process we're having to go through now, is 3 there -- is are there other legal ways that we can support 4 agencies which obviously do a good thing? And -- but we 5 don't know the answer to that yet. And that's -- that sort 6 of goes along with what the Judge has just expounded on. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Following up on that, 8 Larry, I guess I would pose a question to the Judge in this 9 connection -- and, again, your comments really are the ones 10 that set the stage for -- for this. Is it possible, 11 however, as we're waiting for an Attorney General's opinion, 12 anything that says yes, you can do it way we've been doing 13 it, or no, you cannot, and if we are of a mind to attempt to 14 find other ways to do it, is it possible to budget on a 15 contingency basis? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is -- it is possible to do 17 that. We can go ahead and put the funds in the budget, with 18 the understanding that until we find a legal vehicle, we 19 cannot appropriate those funds. We cannot authorize any 20 expenditures of those funds. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Then, if we find out 22 where or how, then they could be budget-transferred 23 accordingly, if they're in here on a contingent basis. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's true. If that's -- if 25 that's the direction the Court wants to proceed, then we can 108 1 certainly do that. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think within another 3 couple weeks, as you indicated, if that first -- if that 4 first deadline is -- is blown, then that might become the 5 thing that would be the thing to do. We may have an answer, 6 or we may get a partial answer; sometimes you do. If you 7 can get -- and we can try to work that or have our County 8 Attorney work that through the Attorney General's office. 9 'Cause sometimes they may find a showstopper or they may 10 find something that says here -- notwithstanding the fact 11 that we've got information coming, we've already found an 12 answer. Sometimes that happens. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I would think -- I mean, 14 I like Commissioner Williams' idea of doing it on a 15 contingent basis, and while we have a lot of these agencies 16 represented here, do that part today, and -- so if there is 17 an adjustment, that they're -- people from the agencies are 18 aware of it. But, then, as long as they understand it's on 19 a contingent basis until we get word from the Attorney 20 General. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And those funds are 22 not to leave here until October 1 anyway. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Right. We may 24 know -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So you have October, 109 1 November, and December, so it's not that big of a deal. 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I guess I suggested 3 it just in the off case that the Attorney General is unable 4 to get back to us before our budget began. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. We're just going to 6 run down the list right quickly. If anyone wants to make a 7 brief presentation on behalf of the agencies, we'd be happy 8 to receive same. I'm quite certain there's no one here from 9 the tracker -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: See if you can engage 11 these folks in a trapper conversation. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Anybody want to -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: A-OK's. Family Literacy. 14 There seems to be a few folks here from Family and Literacy. 15 MS. LEMOND: I'm Isobel Lemond, the Director 16 of Families and Literacy. I'd like to begin by first 17 telling you thank you for the moneys that have been sent to 18 our agency in previous years. We want to say thank you. I 19 want you to know that the moneys that are sent to us in a 20 contractual form are to supply textbooks and tutors for 21 the -- for the incarcerated at our Kerrville Adult Detention 22 Center, as well as for students and clients that are being 23 sent by your offices, and several offices of the judges in 24 this area, in the Kerr County area, for the purpose of 25 parenting classes, adult basic ed, people needing to obtain 110 1 their high school diplomas, learning English as a second 2 language also. And, so, the moneys, as far as I can see, 3 are a legitimate public purpose. And, many of our students 4 have directly benefited from our classes. We hold classes 5 Monday through Thursdays from 9:00 in the morning until 9:00 6 at night. This year alone, we have serviced over 600 night 7 people, and just from January to the present, we have almost 8 75 people who have obtained their G.E.D.'s that are adults. 9 Our probationary people consist of about 10 15 percent of our population. And, as Judge Henneke spoke 11 at our promotion night, he said that we're doing a good job. 12 And, we -- and we're very pleased and we love to do it, and 13 we'd love to continue, but we do need your support. At this 14 time, I'd like to introduce to you Mr. Charles King, an 15 attorney of Kerrville, who is going to be one of our newest 16 members for the F & L Board. 17 MS. KING: I'm Charles King, and I'd like to 18 thank each and every one of you for your time today. I 19 think one of the common threads that runs through all of 20 these organizations is that they fulfill a legitimate public 21 purpose. They serve children's needs. In the case of 22 Family and Literacy, they assist people in learning English, 23 they assist people in getting G.E.D.'s, they -- they help 24 people get job skills so that they can become productive 25 members of our society here in Kerrville. And, if that's 111 1 not a public purpose, I don't know what it is. That's one 2 of the loopholes. I haven't had very much time to research 3 this, but one of the loopholes that -- that I've discovered 4 is that counties can expend funds that benefit private 5 interests if -- if there's a public purpose. And, whether 6 or not a particular expenditure will serve a public purpose 7 is a determination for the Commissioners Court, not the 8 Texas Attorney General's office. So, the question is, do 9 these programs fulfill a public purpose? Absolutely. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Charles? 11 MS. KING: Mm-hmm? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We're not going to debate the 13 legal issue with you. 14 MS. KING: Sure. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: If you're going to go down 16 and talk to David or Travis, you're welcome to, but, you 17 know, we're going to have to be guided by their -- 18 MS. KING: Mm-hmm. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- decision on this matter. 20 So, we appreciate your -- your concern, but this is not an 21 appellate argument you're making. 22 MS. KING: Well, you said that this was all a 23 legal matter, and so I'm telling you that I believe that 24 that is a legal issue, and a public purpose is the 25 exception. The Commissioners Court has the jurisdiction 112 1 over that, and in determining whether it's a public purpose, 2 I don't think we should be at the ransom of the Attorney 3 General's office. They don't get to decide if it's a public 4 purpose. We do. And I want to take that power back for 5 Kerr County, let Kerr County Commissioners decide that 6 public purpose. And that should be one of our goals, that 7 we're going to get from each of these agencies a synopsis of 8 their public purpose so that we can support our decisions 9 if -- if the Commissioners determine that they want to 10 continue funding these agencies. And, that's all I have. 11 I'm here to help the Commissioners. I'm here to help Kerr 12 County. And, I'm -- I'm telling you, I believe that is a -- 13 a bridge to fund these organizations. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm going to repeat to you 15 that if you wants to go down and discuss and help Mr. Motley 16 and Mr. Lucas find the vehicle for us to do that -- 17 MS. KING: I think I'm going to do that. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Good idea. I have a 19 question. 20 MS. KING: Thank you. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is this particular 22 organization -- isn't it housed in your office in K.I.S.D.? 23 MS. LEMOND: We are presently housed, but 24 we'll be moving the first of the year because of extensive 25 growth in our community. So, yes, we're just temporarily 113 1 housed this semester. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. 3 MS. KING: Thank you. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next is Child Advocacy. 5 Anyone here from that organization? 6 (No response.) 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Soil Conservation Service? 8 Any -- did I see anyone from there? Big Brother/Big Sister? 9 MS. SANDERS: Hi. My name is Donna Sanders. 10 I'm the Program Director for Big Brothers/Big Sisters. I 11 think I have to just go along -- I don't want to reinvent 12 the wheel. We service children from Kerr County 13 specifically between ages of 7 and 14, at-risk families that 14 are considered at risk because of single-parent household. 15 We have been proven to affect the quality of life for these 16 children, and we reduce drug usage, criminal activities, and 17 violence. Out of 305 children that were referred to 18 Juvenile Probation in Kerr County for the last year, 127 19 came from families of single parents, so that's our main 20 focus. 21 I just wanted to ask you a couple of 22 questions. The letter that I received from Susan Gusky 23 (sic), on the first paragraph, "We received your request on 24 July 3rd of 2001, setting a due date for your opinion on 25 December 30th," and that's why I was under the understanding 114 1 that the decision wouldn't come down until possibly 2 December. And, in the meantime, also -- I guess my main 3 question is there other -- are there other counties in 4 particular that are providing county funds for service 5 organizations, and what is their legal precedent? And, if 6 we can follow up and, you know, use that rather than trying 7 to dig something new up, it might be a good example. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: We don't know. 9 MS. SANDERS: Thank you. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Next is Dietert Claim. 11 Anyone here from Dietert Claim? 12 (No response.) 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. K'Star? 14 MS. McDANIEL: Yes. Hello. I'm Alice 15 McDaniel, Executive Director of K'Star Emergency Shelter and 16 Counseling Services, and we have been here for 11 years, and 17 we're the only emergency shelter in the area. And, I do 18 appreciate that y'all have taken care of our tax money. I 19 have to say that. I do appreciate you doing a good job on 20 that. But there's a lot of people in need out there, and it 21 -- it's never been illegal before. And, I understand that 22 this question came up about 10 years ago, and I don't 23 believe it was ever settled then. One of my main concerns 24 is that we all serve more than one county. We -- like, I 25 serve 13 counties, and they -- and out of most of those 115 1 counties, we get a few dollars from each one. And, so, I 2 wonder what the ripple effect is going to be when -- when 3 the decision is made here for Kerr County that it's illegal 4 here. What's going to happen over the rest of the state? 5 It's going to affect 250 -- 253 more counties. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sure it will. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's the nature of 8 Attorney General's opinions, unfortunately. Well, sometimes 9 it's good, if it clears up the issue. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Crisis Council? 11 MS. LESSER: Yes. I'm Bobbie Lesser, the 12 Executive Director of the Hill Country Crisis Council. I 13 have to take a small exception to Travis Lucas' description 14 of us. Whereas we do serve children, we do not serve 15 children without the parent. We run the women's shelter 16 here for victims of domestic violence and sexual assault, 17 and we do not take the children in without that abused 18 parent. The part of our -- and I will not repeat what Alice 19 just said, although the same thing applies to me. And, I 20 know that most of the some 70 organizations across the state 21 that are -- are similar to the Hill Country Crisis Council 22 do receive larger amounts of money from their county 23 governments. I am also concerned about that ripple effect 24 that that's going to have. I receive money from the other 25 counties that -- that we serve, as well. 116 1 The two parts of the -- the contract that I 2 fulfill for the county -- and that's not the only thing we 3 do for the county, but our two parts are, we screen the 4 family violence protective order applicants for the County 5 Attorney's office. And that saves him a considerable amount 6 of time, I must tell you. We screen an average of 60 7 applicants a year. This last year we screened 60. We sent 8 25 applicants to the County Attorney's office. We know what 9 those requirements are, and so we mete them out at that 10 point. The other part of our contract is the Batterers 11 Intervention and Prevention Program, and our organization is 12 the only one who has an approved program that's approved by 13 the Community Justice Assistance Division of the Texas 14 Department of Criminal Justice. Thank you very much. We do 15 appreciate your looking out at our tax dollars. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Bobbie. CASA? 17 Anyone here from CASA? 18 (No response.) 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is there anyone here from 20 KEDF? 21 (No response.) 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Didn't think so. Is there 23 anyone here from the Historical Commission? Did I 24 miss Anybody? Yes, Reverend? 25 MR. SHULTS: May I speak in opposition to the 117 1 Historical Commission? Is that appropriate? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: You may. 3 MR. SHULTS: I'm Al Shults, the pastor at 4 Motley Hills Baptist Church, and I've just come to actually 5 support the charities. And, I understand the issue is 6 legality, but I also understand there's a social 7 responsibility, and I would ask the County Commissioners to 8 carefully consider that the money that you have and you're 9 going to furnish to help our community is for the living. 10 It is not for the dead. This church, historically, I 11 understand, will benefit the -- in a long-term basis, the 12 City of Kerrville, but you have publicly said in the paper 13 you're searching to help our citizens that are alive. So, I 14 would ask you to carefully consider this type of charity to 15 something that's dead and will not benefit, really, the 16 people that need to eat and need assistance in our 17 community. I just respectfully request that. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let me -- let me explain to 19 you part of the situation with regard to the Union Church. 20 That is a County-owned facility. That structure was deeded 21 to the County by its previous owner. One of the very direct 22 statutory obligations of the County is to preserve, protect, 23 and maintain county facilities, so we are faced with a 24 situation where, through no -- no lack of effort on their 25 part, the Historical Commission and the Friends of the Kerr 118 1 County Historical Commission have not been able to -- at 2 this point, to raise the funds necessary in order to restore 3 and preserve that building, and so we are in a situation 4 where, if we don't provide possibly -- and a decision hasn't 5 been made, and I think any funds provided for that purpose 6 would clearly be contingent upon them not being able to 7 raise the funds elsewhere. We may be faced with a situation 8 where, if we don't provide some funding, then that structure 9 will be moved from its current location, at the County's 10 expense, and we'll have to deal with what to do with it at 11 another location. So, we're kind of put in a position where 12 you either put up some money now, or you put up a lot of 13 money later. 14 MR. SHULTS: If you keep -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not -- certainly not a 16 competition. 17 MR. SHULTS: Right. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: The money that has been 19 suggested possibly for restoration of Union Church is not 20 money that's being taken away from any of the social 21 agencies. 22 MR. SHULTS: I understand that, sir. May I 23 make one more comment? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, you may. 25 MR. SHULTS: Of course, as a pastor, I see it 119 1 a little different. And I'm not being disrespectful, Judge, 2 but if it takes food and clothing and things like that out 3 of human beings' mouths, that building is just not worth it. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I wouldn't disagree with you. 5 MR. SHULTS: Thank you. 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, I'd like to 7 suggest that -- if I look down this list correctly, I see -- 8 one, two, three, four, five, six, seven items totaling 9 something like $26,000 of funding that is in the current 10 Kerr County operating budget. I'd like to suggest that we 11 restore that amount in the next operating budget on a 12 contingent basis, awaiting an Attorney General's opinion. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would agree with 14 that, with one other proviso; that that, of course, is 15 subject to other budget considerations. 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yes. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Like everything else 18 in this whole book is. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I agree with that. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But I agree with what 21 you say. We can hold it at the previous year's amounts. 22 We'll have to see what the whole budget looks like, of 23 course. But, given that, we can make it contingent on the 24 A.G.'s opinion or whatever -- what other legal opinion we 25 may get. 120 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: On the Economic 2 Development Foundation, is that contingent on the Attorney 3 General opinion, as well? Or is that -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's actually not 5 contingent on the Attorney General opinion. I mean, David's 6 opinion was pretty clear that we can't continue to do it the 7 way we do. Now, there are two alternatives, and I've asked 8 them very recently to say if we do "X" or "Y," can we then 9 continue to funnel funds for economic development using one 10 of those vehicles? But, there is a -- there's a question in 11 my mind about whether we -- if we set up one of the two 12 permitted economic development vehicles, can we use those to 13 provide KEDF, or do we have to retain that money in -- and 14 self-direct it? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I wouldn't object -- I 16 mean, seems to me it's a little bit -- it may not fit to put 17 that $5,000 contingent amount here, but -- in one way, but 18 in the other way, it does fit, from the standpoint of it 19 keeps a marker in there for an amount of money, anyway. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Exactly. Any other questions 21 or comments? 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment would be 23 that I think that most of the people that spoke here -- this 24 body is not a legal body, or not -- not attorneys, and 25 that's why we rely on outside counsel for our advice on 121 1 this. Like you -- the same as you would or your agencies 2 would if a legal question came up. So, you know, we know 3 you ask us and say that there is a public purpose, and in 4 your opinion it, you know, meets state law. Well, we have 5 to turn to the County Attorney, who advises us on these type 6 of legal issues, and we're going to have to -- you know, I'm 7 going to have to go on their recommendation and advice as 8 legal counsel. So, that's just to clear it up. I mean -- 9 MR. DEW: If it can be established that there 10 exists a contractual agreement between the County and the 11 agency involved, and it can be determined that a service is 12 provided, does that -- can that be looked at a different 13 angle then? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: First of all, identify 15 yourself. 16 MR. DEW: Oh, pardon me. I'm John Dew (sic). 17 I'm a member of the Board of Directors of Families and 18 Literacy. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Now, if I may respond to your 20 question, the contract itself is not sufficient, because 21 there are very strict and -- again, let me go back to my 22 lecture about county government. Counties are only 23 permitted to do those activities which they are given 24 specific authority for. So, if there is specific authority 25 for to us contract with Families and Literacy to do a 122 1 certain function, yes, then we have to have a contract and 2 the contract provides the vehicle. However, if there's no 3 specific authority for us to assist them in what they are 4 doing, then the contract, itself, does not provide the 5 ability for us to provide the funds. First we have to have 6 the legal authority. Then we have a contract, and then we 7 can provide the funding. 8 MR. DEW: Thank you. I just wanted to bring 9 that issue up, see if there exists such a contractual 10 agreement. Thank you. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes? 12 MS. LEMOND: I just want to say that in no 13 way -- I hope we didn't seem -- or I did not seem 14 disrespectful. I just want you to know that we are very 15 passionate about our community, passionate about the job 16 that we hold, passionate that our community becomes 17 literate, and that's where we're coming from. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I understand that. I 19 think we all do. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Passion's the most 22 exciting thing on earth. 23 (Laughter.) 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. The next item for our 25 discussion is -- I assume y'all will want to stay and listen 123 1 to the Sheriff tell us about what he's going to do, but no 2 further comments? 3 (Discussion off the record.) 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge, I will make one 5 comment. I hope the A.G.'s opinion goes correctly, and 6 Motely's does, 'cause if a lot of these things don't get 7 funded, you can expect a large increase in my budget 8 request, 'cause most of these agencies help us out 9 tremendously. We'll just have to wait and see, but they are 10 fabulous agencies. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Y'all are welcome to stay, 12 but if you don't, thank you very much for coming. We 13 appreciate your service. We appreciate your care, and we 14 totally agree with your needs. Thank you. 15 (Discussion off the record.) 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff, where do you want to 17 start? Do you want to start with your department or the 18 jail? 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You tell me where you 20 want to start. Whatever y'all's pleasure is. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, maybe I shouldn't say 22 that. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. Restructure 24 that statement. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The jail or the Sheriff's 124 1 Department, which do you want to start with? 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Might as well start with 3 the Sheriff's Department. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tab 15. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's the big one, 6 right? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, they're both 8 getting -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that the one you wanted to 10 do the 15 percent across-the-board reduction? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: No, no, no. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, wait a minute. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. And the first -- 15 and most of it's pretty well spelled out, I think, in the 16 request and the reasoning why. But, one of the first things 17 that I had in addition to -- was, of course, four additional 18 patrol deputies coming to -- at the current salary and the 19 current amount that -- of a starting deputy, at $24,750 a 20 year. And, with the FICA and the insurance and all that 21 kind of stuff, it comes to a total of about $115,497 22 increase. The reason behind this is, one, of course, we 23 know of the growth that's occurred in the county, the growth 24 in the -- in the population, but along with that, one of the 25 major deals that I have is the call frequency amount has 125 1 gone up. Our guys are out there running from the time they 2 come on duty to the time they get off. I'm having to work 3 out ways of giving time off. We've had to cut a few 4 vacation times, just 'cause we don't have the manpower to 5 cover the street in -- in a lot of areas without doing a lot 6 of shuffling around in different ways. 7 What it amounts to is, normally, except 8 during some peak hours at night, we do have quite a few 9 deputies on the street able to help us. But, under most 10 conditions during the daytime hours, we average about three 11 deputies on duty at a time, and that is included in the 12 charge in most cases, which, for 1,100 square miles and 13 which we're we're having a lot of growth in subdivisions and 14 new roads and that going in, it's really getting difficult 15 to -- to have deputies where all we need them. It's getting 16 difficult to have what I would call a decent response time 17 in a lot of cases to offenses and times that the deputies 18 are being called. We averaged, just from April to April, 19 April of 2000 -- for one year, April 2000 to April 2001, 20 7,646 actual case numbers assigned. 21 Now, if somebody goes out on a loose 22 livestock or things like that, I know last year or the year 23 before, the case numbers assigned were a lot higher than 24 that, because a lot of stuff -- like, every time an S.R.O. 25 or a D.A.R.E. instructor went and taught a class, the former 126 1 administration kept that as a case number and had an actual 2 case number just assigned to -- every day for them going to 3 teach a class or going out and doing training. I don't do 4 that. We changed it to where we have case numbers for 5 actual cases that have to have a report written or some kind 6 of action taken by law enforcement. And, in one year, we 7 were at 7,400 -- or 7,646. So, it -- it has increased 8 dramatically. 9 And, I know we've had some major events this 10 year that has kind of taxed us all on a lot of -- of ways of 11 getting things done. But, in doing that, in trying to keep 12 all the officers sent to schools and keep their training as 13 updated as we can possibly keep it, it's hard for -- for us 14 to also keep a decent working schedule to keep the number of 15 officers on the street. We've tried a lot of different 16 scenarios. We've pulled warrant people in, we've pulled 17 investigators in. This summer, while we're at it, the 18 S.R.O.'s that were obtained during the grant, once they used 19 up their comp time they had earned doing the extra functions 20 at school, they had been back on patrol trying to keep a lot 21 of that part being taken care of. But, we are just really 22 at -- we're way past our limit in being able to adequately 23 cover the streets with the number of officers. When you 24 have three on duty at a time, it can really be bad, 25 especially if you try and send a backup officer. These 127 1 officers work alone, and if you have one in the east end, 2 one in the central area, and one in the west end, it's not 3 unreasonable that they could be 40 or 50 miles from each 4 other and could all be on calls at the same time when 5 another one needs backup and needs help. It's causing us a 6 problem, okay. 7 The -- I've asked for an additional -- going 8 to the next one, an additional warrant officer, a transport 9 officer. This comes also a lot -- that function, we kind of 10 have -- warrants also handle all our transportation, where a 11 lot of it's even transporting prisoners from the jail to the 12 courthouse on court days. Now, those, we also try and fill 13 in with a -- with a jailer to go along with them, but you 14 take -- yesterday was a court day for District Courts here, 15 and they had 40 inmates in the jail that had to all be 16 transported over here for court, and it's really causing us 17 a problem. In the warrant part of it, this year alone right 18 now, we have 1,470 outstanding arrest warrants in Kerr 19 County. These are -- the ones that we have, we keep custody 20 of, but in the last year, we served 2,765 compared to the 21 year before of 2,091. So, that has gone up drastically. In 22 transporting inmates, most of these from out of county bring 23 them here from other counties. April of '99 to April of 24 2000, there was a total of 26,140 miles of transportation 25 done, okay. From April to April of 2000/2001, there's 128 1 48,156 miles. 2 I've got guys on the road constantly. I have 3 one going to Arizona Monday, and we're taking an off-duty 4 jailer that's just volunteering his time to go, because some 5 of these we have to -- to have more than one officer on 6 transport and bring them back from out of state. We try and 7 use Transcor as much as we can, but we're finding out in a 8 lot of ways now it's a whole lot cheaper for us to do it 9 ourselves, even with the salaries. Transcor is just getting 10 more and more expensive, and their requirements -- if the 11 inmate's in jail in California and he's got any kind of 12 medical problems at all, Transcor or those companies, most 13 of them, will not transport. We still have to get them. We 14 still have to have them, so we're having to send people 15 to -- and we sent a warrant officer twice in two weeks to 16 Mexico -- to New Mexico picking up inmates, because we 17 just -- you know, you don't know when they're going to come 18 due once their extradition hearings are done. And then 19 we're sending them constantly and they're going, so we're 20 having a hard time. Actually, I'm surprised we were able to 21 serve as many warrants as we have served. So, that causes 22 us a problem, so I'm asking for an increase. 23 And, the -- the only other additional officer 24 I'm asking for is a criminal investigator. Right now, the 25 investigators have currently a case load of anywhere from 70 129 1 to 90 active cases per officer, and it's really hard for 2 them to keep up with investigations and having that many 3 ongoing investigations at one time. Now, when I took 4 office, we changed it around. A lot of the misdemeanor 5 stuff, a lot of the things that we can try and get handled 6 by patrol, patrol's handling. So last -- before that, the 7 investigators got every case, which their case load was way 8 more than what it is. But, still, 70 to 90 or anywhere 9 around that area is way too many cases for one investigator 10 to have working active, because in reality, if you spend one 11 day per case, it could be three months before you get back 12 around to that case again. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, I tried last 14 night to put myself in the position of one of those guys, 15 and the thought of carrying 70 cases and keeping up with all 16 of that and doing the investigation, god. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And thank goodness, it's 18 not very often, but when you have a homicide like we're 19 working right now, okay, all those other cases go on hold, 20 because you have got to work that homicide as quick as you 21 can and as fast as you can with all the -- the techniques 22 and personnel you have. I have -- all the investigators 23 have been working that now for about two weeks. I've had 24 patrol officers trying to do some of these other calls, 25 but -- and other investigations, but, you know, that's 130 1 just -- with their call frequency they're getting while 2 they're on duty, it's impossible for them to do that. Now, 3 I will let y'all know, the long-range planning -- strategic 4 planning committee is still meeting once a Tuesday every 5 month. We're making a lot of progress and getting a lot of 6 that done, but this won't even come close to what that's 7 going to end up being like, I'm afraid, and there is just -- 8 we're behind and we've got to have more manpower. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Sheriff? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes? 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: A question regarding 12 your request for four additional deputies. Currently on the 13 road, how many -- how many are on the road at any given 14 time? This is a two-part question. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. During the 16 daytime hours, normally three. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that be three 18 all the time on 24-hour shifts, or you cut back in the 19 evening? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. During the hours 21 between about 9 p.m. and 2 a.m., there can be as many as 22 six. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How many? 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Six. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Six. 131 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because of the calls 2 that we have at night. It's an overlapping shift, is the 3 way we work those shifts. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: If you -- if the 5 Court were to look favorably on your request for funding 6 four additional deputies -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm? 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- how many of those 9 would be road warriors? 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The four -- the four 11 that I've asked for in here would all be road -- I divided 12 this out. I'm actually asking for officers where I want 13 them. The four patrol would be patrol deputies, period. 14 The one for warrants would be a warrant officer/transport 15 officer, and the one investigator would be an investigator, 16 period. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: With four deputies, you 18 have one additional patrol most of the day? Or how would 19 you -- 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. You could do 21 that, and I could actually -- it would pretty well work out 22 to one additional per patrol. There would still be days 23 that we'd be down to three, especially if there's training 24 schools and things like that that we have to get other ones 25 into, but it would pretty well give us one additional one 132 1 per day, because we wouldn't increase the overlapping amount 2 at night. I still think six right now is -- is pretty good 3 during those nighttime hours. So, you wouldn't -- it 4 wouldn't be like trying to use those four for the whole 5 24-hour period. You're trying to scatter them out in about 6 a, you know, 12-, 13-hour period, getting the shifts covered 7 correctly. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The idea of having 9 four on patrol at all times is -- is a good one, I think, 10 and I think that's what you're driving at. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What it does is proves 12 your point -- 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hard to cover the 14 county with three people. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It leaves your 16 supervision, or -- or whoever he assigns -- if he wants a 17 roamer, a guy that's roaming around, 'cause we do have the 18 county divided up into east, central, and west, and the 19 officers are actually assigned to those, okay? And, if you 20 got one roaming, then he can also be the backup for one of 21 those other counties, 'cause he's not assigned to a 22 particular sector or section of the county he's got to stay 23 in. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Rusty, would it be 25 fair to assume that if you added more road deputies, that 133 1 you have sufficient vehicles to take care of that? It would 2 not result in other vehicles? 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It would if we do -- I 4 was originally planning, after the -- the three years or 5 four years of getting the six vehicles per year, of being 6 able to rotate them every three years. We would have to 7 rotate them every fourth year or something like that, is 8 what it would amount to, okay. Like, right now, we've got 9 the 12 new cars; I've got 12 old ones. And, as long as I 10 don't get rid of any after the end of this budget and we 11 still get the next six new ones, then I would have plenty 12 for all the -- for other officers. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I see. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. So, it would -- 15 it would not increase, you know, buying more cars. It just 16 increases how long we're going to have to keep the ones we 17 have. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay? The -- the other 20 thing I'm asking for, one, of course, are records clerks. 21 These would go along with -- if we can get these scanning 22 stations for the jail and Sheriff's Office. It's divided in 23 two; I need one separate one for the jail, one for the 24 Sheriff's Office. And, a lot of this goes back to the 25 manpower I have on the street, even, because right now, the 134 1 officers come in and enter their own reports into the 2 computer system, and plus we have backlogged records that 3 need to be put into the system. It's unreal. But, it is 4 averaging about an hour to two hours a day for an officer to 5 spend time in the office doing reports on the computer, 6 which takes him off -- if you got three officers working the 7 street, you know, you're cutting them out by about an hour 8 to two hours a day just so that they can do their paperwork. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, do you think 10 that it is smarter to go the route of clerks, as opposed to 11 go the route of laptop computers? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think laptop computers 13 are something that would definitely be advantageous in the 14 future. I would like to see how much more we can get on 15 that grant-wise and things like that to be able to do it. 16 They're extremely expensive, and the technology changes, but 17 there's a lot of things that still have to get put into the 18 computer, other reports, whether it be estimates of damages 19 that are turned in to us, whether it be our criminal records 20 that we have, right now, autopsies in with the case file. 21 The scanning stations, all that would go into -- say we have 22 a burglary, okay? And the person brings in a list of stolen 23 property and estimates. The scanning stations -- and I'd 24 need people to do that scanning, to put it in -- would put 25 it directly into that file in the computer, so when we pull 135 1 up the file, the case number, by case number, we pull up 2 everything, you know. You don't have to go to this file for 3 this, and go find another physical file for this. And, 4 yeah, I think it -- it would definitely save -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: He has one deputy that 6 brings his own equipment, his own laptop and own equipment 7 to work, and at the end of his shift, he pulse over, turns 8 on his radar, and enters it in; his reports are done. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Except the problem, 10 those reports all have to be redone. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Why? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Because they don't go 13 into our system, the Software Group system. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's the disadvantage 16 of that right now. Now, he may do them out there, and that 17 keeps him from sitting at the office to do them, but they 18 still have to be reentered. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So that they're inside 21 the system. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But you've got a good 23 point. That's the ultimate, is that you would be able to do 24 exactly -- 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, I see it 136 1 happening someday. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And do it into the 3 system from out there in the car. Yes, I agree. Okay. I 4 don't know if we're -- with the maintenance fees Software 5 Group does right now, if I give everybody a laptop computer, 6 and user fees and the licenses on that, I don't know if the 7 County or any of us could afford that stuff, okay? But 8 that's what -- the records clerk, that's my wish list. Some 9 of the other -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: One clerk? 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Two clerks. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Two clerks. Okay. This 14 is for -- to scan in records and to do offense reports. 15 This is the Sheriff's Office part. When we get to the jail 16 budget, I'm asking for one to do scanning. Sheriff's 17 Office, itself, does not have a records clerk. Now, there 18 is a records one in the jail already, but mainly what we 19 have is Warrants have their clerk, okay, that helps take in 20 all the teletypes and things like that, make all the phone 21 calls to the warrant guys to try and get out as much as they 22 can if they're not transporting in, and then we have the 23 Criminal Investigation Division secretary, my secretary, and 24 a personnel clerk, a receptionist, is what the Sheriff's 25 Office has. We don't have an actual records clerk at all. 137 1 Okay. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions for the Sheriff 3 on the wish list or the Capital Outlay list, or -- 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One overall -- one 5 overall question. You've done a -- I think a great job of 6 getting the square pegs in square holes and round ones in 7 rounds ones and all, and getting the budget shuffled around. 8 And then this last year, obviously, you had to do some 9 considerable amending to finish that off. Or -- that's my 10 question. 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We will be through the 12 next part of this year, yes. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That -- that is my 14 question. Do you feel like that that turbulence is pretty 15 well settled down, and your budget form and all is -- will 16 be pretty stable in the fiscal year that we're talking about 17 here? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. The current 19 fiscal year, as far as personnel matters and salaries coming 20 from here and how it was all done, yes, I think we've got 21 all that taken care of. As far as some amendments that 22 we're going through right now during these -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm talking about 24 strictly this year. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm hoping -- you know, 138 1 this year I've had quite a few amendments 'cause of, like, 2 medical expenses in the jail is a lot more than what I 3 estimated, you know. Transport's a lot more. We can see 4 what the guys really got out and did this year. Next year 5 I'm hoping, yes, that -- in fact, the department had a 6 meeting this morning with our administrator part, and I told 7 them our goal for next year is not to have any budget 8 amendments. That's the goal. We may or may not ever make 9 it, but that is what's we're working at trying, and cut 10 where I can as much as I can, and add it to other ones if we 11 have to so that we can do it during the budget process and 12 not have those amendments. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's all I was 14 asking, sort of a status. 'Cause I know, obviously, you had 15 to do a lot of reworking of the -- the way things were 16 allocated, and it appears to me, toward the end of this 17 year, current year, that it looks like it's about there. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, that's the reason 20 I'm asking the question. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Close. It's real close. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Next year there won't 23 be a radio line item to go steal from. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, there is something 25 I will let y'all know that we got notified about this week. 139 1 D.P.S. TLETS system, which is our teletype and all of the, 2 you know, traffic on the computer, nationwide checks for 3 wanted and state checks for wanted, Department of Public 4 Safety is upgrading all their equipment to a satellite 5 system, and in doing so, they notified us two days ago that 6 the current equipment we have will not handle that satellite 7 tape system deal. And we have to have, by January the 1st, 8 the new equipment, or we will not be able to run wanted 9 checks or anything else. And, I've had the Chief Deputy and 10 the communications supervisor contact the vendors on that, 11 and that looks like a totally unexpected about $8,000 12 expense that's going to have to come between now and 13 January. And, I don't know if we want to try and figure it 14 in this current budget with the radio stuff, if I can get 15 that equipment ordered, you know, before October and get 16 them to do that, or if we need to look at that in next 17 year's budget. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Next year -- when you 19 say next year's budget, you're talking about this thing 20 right here? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's what we're 22 working on right now. I would rather take it out of the one 23 we're in, the current -- the one we're spending. I may have 24 to get it out of the radio -- 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think what Rusty's 140 1 saying is, we can do it before October 1st. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 3 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see what you're 4 saying. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: What I'd like to do -- 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty, in your Capital 7 Outlay items, most of them are -- a lot of it, you have leg 8 irons, M-14's, shotguns. Those are -- looks like -- and 9 also first aid equipment and stuff. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That basically, as I read 12 it, is to give each deputy a set of each of these items. 13 These numbers don't reflect us hiring additional deputies, 14 so if we did additional deputies, do you want to increase -- 15 we can increase all of these, or do we do it the following 16 year, or -- 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, I don't think I want 18 to increase all those. We have a lot of old weapons. We're 19 in the process now of getting court orders on old evidence 20 ones, or -- or, you know, found ones that are turned in. 21 Say an elderly person didn't want theirs any more and just 22 gave it to the department, things like that. If we get 23 court orders on those, historically, what -- what the 24 department had done -- and the Legislature didn't change it; 25 they thought about it, where we have to turn all those 141 1 weapons in to D.P.S. and they would sell them or do 2 whatever. But, at this time, I think we can trade enough 3 that -- like, if I were to get the shotguns -- and mini 14's 4 are actually only carried by patrol, okay, to where if we -- 5 if we got the four more patrolmen, I would have enough that 6 we could do some trading and that to get the weapons for 7 each of those. The problem is, you know, we're just so far 8 behind that the -- the numbers I'm asking for is exactly 9 what it would take to equip patrol -- all of patrol with 10 those weapons now. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Another one of your 12 Capital Outlay items was first aid kits. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We had -- we had the 15 First Responder guy in here this morning, the training 16 officer for the fire department, and -- and in his 17 presentation, he stated that he would like to offer you, the 18 Sheriff's Office, the opportunity to have some of that 19 training. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: As a matter of fact, 21 Commissioner, a month ago, okay, when a lot of our officers 22 -- I had 17 of them go through the Mental Health Officer 23 course that was done free here. And, a part of that, the 24 second requirement to that course for them to get their 25 Mental Health Officer licenses was a first aid class, and 142 1 we've already sent 20 through a first aid class taught by 2 the fire department here. And, yes, I intend on getting 3 everybody through it. And, they didn't charge us for it. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah, and they won't 5 charge you for this one, either. I think this is a little 6 bit -- step above the regular Red Cross first aid course. 7 It's a little more -- I mean, it's a little more than CPR. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, yeah. The won 9 with -- the fire department has come to me, in fact -- even 10 old what's-his-name over at the hospital has come to me 11 showing me the defibrillators that we had, and they're 12 wanting to get that. My question was for them was, where do 13 we get the funding for that type of stuff? 'Cause for a 14 defibrillator really to do any good, you're going to have to 15 have it in every car. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just wanted to bring 17 it up; I want you to consider that. You know, you 18 definitely need first aid kits; there's no question of that. 19 I can't believe you don't have them in there. But, maybe 20 upgrading and -- and help save somebody's life out there. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I think we definitely 22 should. Anything -- 'cause normally, we are there before 23 EMS or -- or a lot of times before First Responders get 24 there. Once they get there, we don't -- we have very little 25 normally to do with the first aid part, or even assisting 143 1 them with first aid. It becomes traffic control, it 2 becomes, you know, landing zone for the helicopter or 3 keeping family away and that. But, the very first part of 4 it, even if we can just apply a tourniquet to stop bleeding 5 or something like that, I think we need to do. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My last question is 8 probably a little bit more to Tommy, on the -- on first aid 9 kits that are listed. To me, that's not a Capital Outlay 10 item; that's a -- operating supplies or something like that. 11 'Cause you're going to use them up. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: It's dispensable, so -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So it should go into -- 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with you, Jon. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Move that somewhere else. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Commissioner, I agree 18 with you. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? I'm going to 20 take a moment here to say that the Sheriff has worked hard 21 on his budget. I mean, it's a joy to work with him, because 22 he really tweaks it and twists it and wrenches it and gets 23 every bit of bat fat out of it he can, and so I want to say 24 that I know this is a real budget. I mean, this is the 25 needs of the department. But, I'm also going to say that if 144 1 we contemplate giving him his wish list, we're probably 2 going to have to do away with the County Attorney's office. 3 (Laughter.) 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or raise taxes. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Judge -- 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We could raise taxes 7 for the Sheriff of Kerr County. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What an interesting 9 choice. 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Can we put that to a vote, 12 Sheriff's Department or County Attorney? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Let Rusty make that 14 decision. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't want to see us 16 raise taxes, okay? I don't -- I own my home here too. I 17 don't -- I know they went up this year and I understand -- 18 you kknow, I do feel that I have not asked for -- for 19 anything extra. I feel that all we're doing at this point 20 is playing catch-up, and it is unfortunate we have to do 21 that, but I also have to understand the tax dollar 22 situation. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Could you prioritize your 24 employee requests? Which -- I mean, records, warrant, 25 C.I.D., and deputies, which are the most -- 145 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: To be honest, I can't. 2 I mean, all of them are so far behind right now, with no 3 records management system other than, you know, paper stuff 4 stuck in a file that's just unbelievable out there. So, I 5 can't say we don't need that more than I need patrol 6 officers on the street. And, with the case load the 7 investigators have got, I can't -- I just don't have any way 8 of -- of really being able to say I need one more than I 9 need the other one. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, you're going to make 11 us say that. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh? That's -- with the 13 tax dollars and what's available, that's about what I'm 14 doing. Okay. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I apologize, but I 17 just can't do it. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Under just the normal 20 budget stuff, on the increases and that, I think those are 21 pretty well self-explanatory in my request. There are some 22 things that I -- as we learned this year, that I had kind of 23 fell behind on and we're finding out right now, such as 24 vehicle maintenance and that. I had cut over $20,000 out of 25 that last year, from 40-something to 23,000 this year. And, 146 1 as you can see, I think I'm asking for that to go back up a 2 little bit. Some of the things that come out of there, even 3 though we're getting good cars, good cars under warranty, we 4 don't have a lot of the major maintenance stuff, but other 5 things that all come out of there, when the deputies hit a 6 deer, or tires, or -- you know, all that kind of stuff is 7 still coming out of that. And, unfortunately, there was 8 more of that than I anticipated. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think you need to get an 10 old clunker that -- with a chicken on top of it, and make 11 the guys who hit the deers drive it around while theirs gets 12 fixed. 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We have done something 14 like that. We have one of those yellow bombs, as I call 15 them. We call it our 7-banger, because it's an 8-cylinder, 16 but only seven of them work. And that is our spare car if 17 theirs goes down for any reason, deer hitting or whatever; 18 that's what they drive until we get it back up. So, in some 19 ways, I think it's happening. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's about like a 21 chicken. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's pretty close to 23 your chicken. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. If no one else has 25 anything else, let's move on to the jail. 147 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can do Courthouse 3 Security. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Courthouse Security's 5 not -- I think the only thing I've asked for an increase in 6 courthouse security is -- if it's even an increase -- is the 7 $9,000 part-time line in there. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: For the bailiffs? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: For the bailiffs, for 10 when the courts do start handling more than one trial at a 11 time. I have Chuck up here as our courthouse security 12 bailiff. He's one person, but I don't see that we need 13 another full-time person up here, because they don't have 14 double trials at all times. But, I'd like to have some in 15 there for a part-time type salary where I could hire a 16 retired officer or whatever if we know we've got a double 17 trial coming in both courtrooms. That could help out. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree with that. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's go -- go to the 20 jail, then. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. Let's do wish 22 list. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You're talking about 24 the jail now? 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Jail. Jail wish list. 148 1 Again, we're asking for the scanning station. Total of 2 about $20,046 -- I'm sorry, that's the clerk for that, to 3 scan records into the jail. Currently, we have over 130 4 file cabinets that that are totally full of jail records. 5 It will take us years and years to get all those records 6 scanned into a -- into the County's computer system, but 7 they need to be in there. They're not records we can throw 8 away or do away with at this time. I don't think half of 9 them are, that we can do away with at any time. Our 10 retention period on a lot of that we have to keep forever, 11 jail records. So, with that number of records in the -- and 12 then also to do the current ones as they come in, I would 13 need a scanning station to be able to do all that, and at 14 least one records clerk to do -- do it also. 15 Another thing I'm asking for is just a fax 16 machine in the jail. That's in the administrator's office. 17 We have one now that we acquired from the County Attorney's 18 office when they got a new one, and after we got it and we'd 19 been using it, I found out why they got a new one. But, it 20 is working sometimes right now, but I feel that that is 21 something we do need in the jail, is a fax machine. There's 22 a lot of records that get faxed back and forth to different 23 agencies, as well as our state jail population stuff that 24 has to go in every month and things like that. 25 $1,324 for the kitchen items. These are 149 1 things that need to be replaced in the kitchen. I believe 2 there is a list attached to the next page, saying that it's 3 a juice cart, pots and pans, things like that, storage 4 containers that we have to have. I don't have much choice. 5 I do have a bit of good news. While I was gone week before 6 last, or week before that, the Health Department came in and 7 did a total unannounced surprise inspection of the jail's 8 kitchen, and the jail scored 100 on everything. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hoo! 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They didn't even call 11 and say they were coming. They showed up and said, "Let's 12 see it." And, so, I think we scored better than most 13 restaurants do. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Rusty, would you tell 15 me what Item Number 2 is on the kitchen items? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Heavy duty braising pot. 17 That's a big pot used for browning meats, for cooking beans 18 or whatever. Commissioner, I'm not the kitchen cook, but I 19 have seen the pot, the won we got. It's a big aluminum pot, 20 about that big around, that has seen lots of cooking, and 21 the bottom's about gone. It's been used so many years, and 22 the heat -- it's going bye-bye. You have to ask Ms. Krause. 23 She knows that -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: -- all the different 150 1 names for that. Third thing on there is medical equipment 2 needed, as per Dr. Parvin. Some of this -- the first one in 3 planning there is just one of these little deals to look in 4 their ears that has a light on it and things like that. The 5 next one's a wall unit blood pressure. And the one I 6 definitely totally agree with is a good, secure medication 7 cart. We do have controlled substances that get dispensed 8 to inmates out there. By law, we're required to have all 9 these in secured areas, and the way we do it, the cart we 10 got is just very old and outdated. I think it was an old 11 reject donated by the State Hospital or Sid Peterson years 12 ago or whatever, and it's been used ever since. 13 This -- this whole line, though, Inmate 14 Medical, is something that Travis and the County Attorney's 15 office is looking at, I've been looking at. It's a dilemma 16 for me as Sheriff. I feel we're having to pay way way too 17 many medical bills for inmates. I don't feel we should have 18 to pay them. It make me wonder, do we really -- do we need 19 to look at our medical facility type we have out there, 20 which consists of two nurses and a doctor on call, since 21 we're having to transport 90 percent of our inmates that get 22 sick to the hospital anyhow? Because the doctor says he 23 doesn't have X rays, he doesn't have lab ability, he doesn't 24 have all that kind of stuff, so they go to the emergency 25 room either way. So, then we're paying the nurses salaries, 151 1 we're paying the doctors, his on-call, and we're still 2 sending them to the emergency room. 3 And -- and I don't know the answer. I don't 4 know how we can really take care of this. You know, I don't 5 know if a nurse/practitioner and doing away with a lot of 6 this other, and she can -- keeping a nurse practitioner or 7 trying to enter a contract-type deal with Family Practice, 8 where an actual doctor will come out and see them anytime 9 things -- there's got to be a way, 'cause now we're paying 10 -- if you get one too sick, the ambulance is taking them to 11 the hospital, okay? And we're paying that ambulance a bill. 12 We're paying the emergency room bills. Now, Travis is 13 working on that to where, yes, it does save them a lot, but 14 the County is ultimately responsible for these bills 15 incurred while somebody's incarcerated. 16 But, it also -- you know, it says ultimately, 17 they're -- which I think the hospital needs to try and 18 collect these things from the inmate. We'll help them any 19 way we can before the County ends up having to pay. We're 20 even getting ones now that refuse to fill -- inmates that 21 refuse to fill out the indigency form, because they say the 22 County's got to pay it anyhow, and I'm not giving them any 23 personal information about me in the hospital. It's causing 24 us a serious dilemma, which I don't know the answer to. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd encourage really 152 1 looking at either Family Practice or Franklin Clinic or some 2 of these other clinics around to try to keep -- avoid using 3 the hospital. If -- you know. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Something -- we use 5 Franklin Clinic quite a bit, okay. We do. But if it's 6 after hours and that, you know, and it just -- I just -- I 7 have to take somebody to the emergency room, it's 600 bucks 8 right when you walk in there, just about, in my opinion. 9 And then if it's an ambulance taking them, and you're 10 talking about another $400 or $500. You've already spent 11 $1,100, and they may come back, "Oh, well, he had a bad 12 toothache." 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I haven't heard of 14 anyplace, but they may be willing to expand their staff if 15 they knew they were going to get -- you know, have an 16 interlocal agreement with the Sheriff's Department to be -- 17 to use them, or Family Practice or somebody else. I mean, 18 maybe get 24-hour coverage. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You figure one nurse is 20 getting close to $30,000, one's getting $21,000. Then, with 21 the doctors getting -- you know, before we even actually 22 treat those inmates, or a lot of them out there, you're 23 already talking close to $100,000 the County's paying, and 24 then you have to still spend another -- what's it been so 25 far this year? It's getting close to $30,000, $40,000 in 153 1 medical bills, that there's got to be an answer to. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Those that refuse to 3 sign the indigent papers -- 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I can't -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: -- maybe you want to 6 get a pair of those leg irons down and just rattle them 7 every once in a while. Maybe that will encourage them. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: This causes a dilemma. 9 It says no matter what I do, I cannot deny medical attention 10 if they need it. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And I'm not a doctor, so 13 I can't say whether they need it or whether they don't when 14 they do. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: There are some law 16 enforcement officials that have tried to do that. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And they're either in 19 court now or are already paying on the judgment. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Paying millions on the 21 judgment. Just -- I don't know. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's really -- 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One of the downfalls. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tough one. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that is equipment 154 1 that Dr. Parvin says would make it a lot better for him to 2 be able to do what he does. I definitely agree with the 3 medication cart. They have just a hand-held wrapping blood 4 pressure deal. But right now, you know, the normal ones, 5 the deal to look in the ears and all that kind of stuff, 6 that may be something that he needs. He knows it better 7 than I do. And, if we don't have him, who are we going to 8 have? 9 Okay. The next item on there is just a -- we 10 have -- at the end of several hallways in that jail, because 11 of the way the jail's built, we do put the big mirrors like 12 you see in grocery stores and things like that just down at 13 at the end of the hallway so we can see what's going on 14 around the corner before a jailer walks around. That's all 15 that $200 is, to increase the number of mirrors we have down 16 the hallways. Digital camera is -- I have an older video 17 camera, not digital, just a regular video camera, VHS, that 18 we use any time there's a disturbance in a cellblock or 19 anybody, you know, fights in the detox tank or whatever, we 20 run in with a video camera and everything goes on video. 21 And, normally that's the best tool in any disturbance or 22 fight, 'cause they don't want that video shown to anyone. 23 But, we do have a number of inmates coming in that may have 24 injuries; maybe they were in a car wreck, maybe they 25 weren't. With the camera that we have that takes their mug 155 1 shot pictures, you can change that around and take it -- you 2 know, injury pictures. But, a lot of those things are 3 one-time injuries. I don't see the need to put some of that 4 stuff in the County's computer system, which is where all 5 that goes. So, to be able to grab a quick digital camera 6 that we can just -- just like the personal one I have uses a 7 floppy disk to where you just have a floppy disk to keep it 8 for the two years or whatever, and redo it if there's no 9 lawsuits. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Your digital camera is a 11 lot cheaper than Animal Control's. 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not asking for a 13 real fancy one. And that's the wish list items. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Pager. This is a 15 pager? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Huh? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One pager? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, yeah. What that is, 19 if -- with the nurses and that, neither of the nurses have 20 any pagers, and I'd like to get one a pager so they can have 21 some kind of personal life while they're away from the jail, 22 if they're the one on call. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that a -- I think 24 we have a misprint in my budget here. Mine says that the 25 pagers are $1,100? Surely that's wrong. 156 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That is definitely a 2 misprint. Make it -- I think it's probably more like 100 3 and something. Yeah, $112. I don't know. It was probably 4 $112.80 or something for a year, figuring in the fees and 5 everything else. So, that is a definite wrong total there. 6 I apologize for that. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments 8 regarding the jail budget? 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Capital Outlay, though, 10 that is -- there is a couple things that you need to -- to 11 really look at. Of course, leg irons and handcuffs, we have 12 to be able, by Jail Commission rules and regs and 13 everything, to evacuate that entire facility at any time 14 necessary in case of a disaster, fire or anything else, so 15 we have to keep enough leg irons and handcuffs on hand to do 16 that. So, that's why we're asking for the increase in that. 17 The portable air packs, we're required to have portable air 18 packs. Those are those fire packs in case there's a fire. 19 We're required to have those. We have one that is useless 20 any more; it was one that, again, was a hand-me-down years 21 ago from the fire department, and it's just had it. Doesn't 22 hold air, it doesn't keep air. There's nothing else we can 23 do with it. We do still currently have one good one, but we 24 normally keep two. 25 The records management, and then the other 157 1 thing is the two 24-hour VCR recording machines that 2 continuously record. This is where all the activities that 3 the cameras inside the jail carry. Anything down the 4 hallways, things like that. Some parts of -- some of the 5 violent room areas and that, we do not currently have 6 cameras, unfortunately, that cover. Part of the kitchen 7 area, part of the booking area, or the -- the other part was 8 the receiving area, back down there in the end just outside 9 the sallyport, none of that area is on camera. None of it's 10 being recorded. None of it -- you know, when a guy comes in 11 very violent, fighting down there, which is normally when 12 the fights occur, when you're trying to take property off of 13 him, then he's trying to hide drugs or whatever at that 14 time. None of that stuff -- the booking area, the receiving 15 area or a lot of the the kitchen area, where our dangerous 16 utensils are -- is on camera, and so I'm asking for three 17 cameras to cover that. 18 The multiplexer is a device that will -- it 19 will take to have to hook all the cameras up to the 20 recording machines. We have two old ones now, 25 recorders. 21 We have had -- you can ask Glenn -- major problems with them 22 all year. Plus, half the cameras in the facility, the 23 multiplexer's not big enough that they're not even hooked up 24 to it, so we don't get recordings out of everything in 25 there. This is something I hope we never need for a 158 1 recording to have to go back and use it, but it's something 2 we do need to fix the problem. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Touch on jail 4 maintenance right quick, I guess. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On jail maintenance? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: A lot of that is in 8 Glenn's. Glenn's starting to take care of it. Are you 9 talking about the -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: The budget you're asking -- 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The jail maintenance 12 budget. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: The jail maintenance budget. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: Jail maintenance budget. 15 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, I don't -- we have 16 a deal on that. Would that be jail maintenance? 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: My jail maintenance. 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Oh, your jail 19 maintenance. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: Is that the one you're talking 21 about, Judge? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The VCR's we didn't put 25 in on that, because I don't know if y'all want to start 159 1 trying to group things such as equipment we use, whether it 2 be cameras or whether it be VCR's, as part of jail 3 maintenance that Glenn would have to worry about. Or is 4 that more stuff that -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's security. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That's more of a 7 security-type issue and things like that. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Then I guess I've got 10 mine. Thank y'all. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: We'll be talking. 12 MR. HOLEKAMP: On the jail maintenance, the 13 only changes from this last year's budget is -- was already 14 made at the beginning of the year, when we changed the 15 maintenance salaries from part-time to full-time. That's 16 why the changes that you see in the original budget and 17 current budget to -- today. That is a full-time position 18 instead of part-time. Jail repairs, I would like to think 19 that I can hold that -- that's Line Item 451 -- hold it the 20 same as this year. We've done a little bit better. I have 21 a -- a jail repair maintenance person right now that is very 22 proactive as to maintenance, more so than -- not waiting 23 until it's completely broke. So, we're getting a few things 24 fixed that we have had not previously -- we were -- the only 25 thing -- and I wanted to bring this up. Y'all -- y'all 160 1 brought up a real good point the other day in the budget 2 session on Capital Outlay. What's Capital Outlay? As -- 3 for example, in the jail, we have washing machines and 4 dryers and that sort of thing. The life of those machines 5 are unknowns. A washing machine is $399, or whatever the 6 price, but it -- I don't budget for them, because we run 7 them until they die. So, we get into a position -- and 8 Tommy's been very kind in the -- in the past two years, as 9 when we have machines that just flat die, that you cannot 10 repair, that we were able to go in and take money out of 11 jail repairs to replace a unit -- a washing machine for 12 $399. I would like for that to be continued, that practice, 13 and the Court to understand, I would hate to budget for a 14 washing machine and then not need them, because it will take 15 away from other stuff. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That -- that's a 17 generally accepted procedure from I.R.S. and financial 18 accounting standard boards, too, isn't it? On a replacement 19 list of less than $1,000? 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Kind of a management 21 decision, too. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah; cause you're 23 replacing -- you're replacing a capital -- it's a capital 24 item, but you're replacing it -- 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Something that's broken. 161 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That already exists, 2 so you're not really adding anything to the capital 3 structure. So, it's a repair. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Correct. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It is a repair. 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: But I wanted the Court to 7 understand, just because I don't put anything into Capital 8 Outlay, it's not that we don't. It's just that it's an 9 unknown, and I -- I feel very, very uncomfortable about 10 going ahead and putting in for five washing machines, and 11 my -- my Sears Kenmores run another year and I don't need 12 them, because I will run them another year if I can. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Leave it in repairs; 14 that's fine. 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: But I think the budget can 16 hold its own this year. At least I'm going to make every 17 effort. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thanks. 19 (Discussion off the record.) 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is the right time to 21 bring it up, so one of you step forward. 22 MR. HOLEKAMP: All right, I'm coming. Right 23 now I've got so many -- all right. Now, this -- excuse me. 24 This is a -- a budget request. I put it in mine -- there 25 was a discussion -- and I'm not going to take the whole hit 162 1 on this thing. The Sheriff -- I think he needs to be 2 standing also. There was a supplement; it was from a memo. 3 Did y'all get it? And this has to do with a fence for 4 impounding of confiscated and abandoned vehicles. Is that 5 correct? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When a person's 7 arrested. 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: When a person is arrested. 9 That's his part of it. My involvement in this was -- is to 10 how we could secure with fences the back part of the jail 11 property, and not end up -- and that would also enclose the 12 storage building, current county records storage, and other 13 areas. The -- and also, in this area, the Jail 14 Administrator indicated numerous times over the last year, 15 it would be nice if there would be a place for inmates to 16 cultivate a garden for possible vegetables for the jail, 17 itself, within that property. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Didn't we do that last 19 year? Didn't we talk about that, Buster? 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. We're still 21 talking about it. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: So, when I went out, and -- 24 and Commissioner Letz probably has a better handle on this 25 fence cost than I did. I made one call here in town locally 163 1 about chain link, and it's -- and the cost of material and 2 labor, and the prices were $15 to $20 per square foot -- I 3 mean per linear foot. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: 15 to 20? 5 MR. HOLEKAMP: Dollars per foot, which I feel 6 like is a little high, personally. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: How about you? 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Last time I made a public 9 comment about that particular contractor, I think I was 10 blasted. 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: And I'm not going to go -- 12 that is not the intent here. The intent is to say this 13 fence is approximately 1,600 feet, and I can go so far to 14 say that, with inmate labor, once we get into some cooler 15 times, there's no doubt that a lot of this work could be 16 done by inmate labor. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Could be done. 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: Could be done and would be 19 done. But, when you start putting up chain link wire, you 20 need certain tools. The wire, itself, and also the razor 21 wire. The constantine, whatever you call it, over the top. 22 That's going to take professionals. There's no one in my 23 staff that are capable of handling that kind of wire without 24 going to the hospital afterwards. So -- so, this number was 25 based on a phone call as to what -- if you went out and 164 1 wanted to fence that in and you paid somebody to do it, 2 that -- here locally, that's what it would cost. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 1,600 feet? 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: $20 a foot? 6 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. It's about $30,000. 7 I -- I believe it could be done for considerably less. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How tall is it? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I could see a note in the 10 jail saying "The 7th pole from the far side is not in there 11 very good." 12 (Laughter.) 13 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Love that kind of stuff. 14 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: One of the big 15 advantages of this, especially an impound yard -- you know, 16 the garden is a deal the Jail Administrator would love to 17 have. I think a garden would be great, you know, for 18 certain purposes and that. One, it teaches inmates a type 19 of trade. It solves a lot of problems we could have in the 20 jail by getting them out, getting them to work, especially 21 female inmates. It's hard to find programs that you can 22 actually have the female inmates go out and do. And, things 23 like the garden and that would be very beneficial for that. 24 That would probably take another cross-fence in this fenced 25 area to be able to separate it from an impound yard. Now, 165 1 that cross-fence -- there's some sheriffs that -- there's 2 one that has now started a garden area, and all the tools, 3 the tillers, the hose, everything to do it with, they 4 purchased out of their commissary account, stating to the 5 State that that is an educational program on educating 6 inmates how to raise vegetables or do a farming-type trade. 7 And, if that holds up through the A.G.'s office, just like 8 y'all's opinion with that other department, then that 9 cross-fence could possibly be built out of that. 10 Now, the impound yard would be, in a lot of 11 ways, similar to what Sheriff Chapman does over at Junction, 12 Kimble County. One of their biggest income sources -- 13 revenue sources is out of the impound yard that is run by 14 the Sheriff, and what that is, is anybody getting arrested, 15 their vehicle has to be towed. It is towed to the law 16 enforcement impound yard, one, to have more security and 17 things like that, and then it is normally about a $15-a-day 18 fee for sitting there. They're given so long to get it out. 19 You go through the notices. If they don't get the vehicle 20 out, then it is auctioned off. Now, it's the same way with 21 abandoned vehicles on the interstate or anywhere in the 22 county. They're towed there, you go through the process and 23 auction that off. You -- and I know that Kimble County 24 makes a large amount of money in revenues from operating 25 their own Sheriff's Department impound yard. I feel we 166 1 could definitely do the same here, and have a good source of 2 income, as well as better security on vehicles that are 3 towed. 4 Now, the way they do it, they still use a 5 rotation towing list for the actual towing, itself, just 6 like us and D.P.S. have a list of the wreckers that are on 7 rotation that come out, and then those wrecker drivers bill 8 the County at the end of each month for the number of tows 9 that were done and the cost of those tows. Now, they pass 10 on part of the cost to the inmate when he's released for 11 whatever that, you know, it costs to have the vehicle towed 12 in from an arrest scene. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's a good idea. 14 I think -- I mean, we need to pursue it, either contract 15 doing it or inmates doing it or trustees. I think some of 16 the trustees can do everything except the razor wire. 17 Stretching chain link is very easy. I mean, it's not -- I'm 18 sure there's someone in the jail that knows how. 19 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The razor wire may be a 20 concern on having inmates here. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: It's 8-foot, Buster. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: The razor wire, I think 23 you probably -- as long as whoever you buy the materials 24 from is aware of what you're doing, they can tell you how 25 high it has to be above it. You could hire a contractor to 167 1 do that. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Now, there is something 3 else in the plan that I think in their -- I talked to them 4 last week. I know the Judge has been aware of this a little 5 bit off and on. That would also work into that same type 6 deal, because of the fence and how this fence would run. It 7 would just change it just a little bit, but probably 8 wouldn't add any footage onto it. I think y'all may have 9 heard the rumor that the Hill Country Mounted Peace Officers 10 Association would like to come to the court later, when they 11 get their figures in, to actually build a training room and 12 a storage room for that emergency command post that they 13 have that we've used on murders, we've used in that fire, 14 and park it there. And, the training room would seat about 15 75 people, and so that they could use it, law enforcement 16 could use it. They've got the funds already to build the 17 building, and what they're wanting is to actually end up 18 with a type deal where they contract with the County where 19 the County may lease it to them for a dollar a year for the 20 space, and then if something happens to the Mounted Peace 21 Officers Association, it all goes back to the County, as far 22 as owning the building. We need a big training room. 23 Everybody does. A -- a good command center-type deal is 24 what they're also looking at. And, of course, if they did 25 that, it would need to be included in this price in the 168 1 fenced-in area, to build it right next to where that storage 2 building is right now. Those are just things we're looking 3 at. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions or comments on 5 the fenced impound? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Going back on the 7 deputies, the only thing that would add additional to it is 8 not vehicles, but portable radios. One thing we have done 9 with our old portable radios, as y'all are probably aware 10 of, I kept those, had them reserviced, had them all put in 11 top working condition. The old ones that we replaced with 12 that grant money from last year, the -- all these Juvenile 13 Probation officers in the county now have a radio issued by 14 us, and all the Adult Probation officers in the county now 15 have a radio issued by us, along with the constables, okay? 16 And, even, like, the bulletproof vest grants that we got, 17 two of the constables, the two that wanted them, now have 18 brand-new bulletproof vests that we worked out through the 19 grants and through those donations also, so we're trying to 20 make sure everything gets worked out correctly with all the 21 other agencies. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still haven't heard 23 you say anything about radar units. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: In the Capital Outlay 25 deal in here, with the equipment, with the six new vehicles, 169 1 if we get six more new vehicles, I've kept that the same as 2 we did last year, which is providing all the equipment in 3 with that. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's for the new 5 vehicles. What about -- how many radar units do we have 6 today? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Today, that are actually 8 working, I think 12. All the new cars. When we went to 9 getting the new cars, all the equipment that's in those cars 10 was -- was gotten at the same time, which is also radar 11 units, that we have 12. We had, like, two -- one or two old 12 radar units; that's all the radar units the cars had before 13 we started getting the new ones, and those have since then 14 pretty well gone kaput. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Did what? 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Gone kaput. They aren't 17 very good. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, how long does a 19 radar unit last? 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Depends on the care 21 that's been taken. Hopefully several years. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Several years? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Mm-hmm. I'm talking -- 24 if we go through three years, maybe four years of getting 25 the six new cars, okay, then at that time, you've been in it 170 1 four years. The first ones at that point, with the growth 2 in the department and that, would be about ready to get rid 3 of. And, at that time, depending on -- on the care that the 4 equipment's had, and you have to just look at it, I would 5 hope we could still keep the equipment another extra year 6 and have the equipment for five years before we'd have to 7 replace any of it, realistically. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. Sounds like a 9 hell of a plan. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else for the Sheriff 11 on his empire? 12 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Empire? Thanks, Judge. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take five and come 14 back. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five? Let's take a 16 day and a half. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Still getting tired, Buster? 18 Let's get back at 10 till 4:00, and we'll push through to 19 the end. Okay. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Not 10 till 4:00. We 21 don't need a 20-minute break, do we? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Twenty to 4:00, I'm sorry. 23 Twenty to 4:00, 10 minutes. 24 (Recess taken from 3:30 p.m. to 3:40 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 171 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's go back on the record. 2 The next scheduled discussion is Permanent Improvements, 3 which is Tab 25 in your book. I put -- I think, as I 4 indicated in our general discussion, I put $25,000 in there 5 for continued update of the courthouse, as well as $25,000 6 for finish out in the annex in the next year. It's just off 7 the top of my head. It may or may not bear any relationship 8 to reality, but I think the $25,000 will probably come 9 pretty close to doing the -- the annex, because, according 10 to what Glenn has told me and what Keith Longnecker says, 11 that with the money we've allocated this year, we're 12 basically going to be able to do the corridors, which will 13 give them a big leg up on doing particularly the County 14 Treasurer's office next year. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think -- at this point, 16 I think it's a good idea to keep it in for both of them. 17 We'll -- this is an area that we may have to trim a little 18 bit when we get to the final number. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. As far as parks are 20 concerned, that's Tab Number 2, the last -- the last budget. 21 Are we going to spend the last of our Flat Rock grant money 22 this year? Or -- 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll get the bathrooms 24 in, I believe, and then whatever's left goes for benches, 25 and that should be a pretty quick purchase, so I would say 172 1 yes. 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Sure would like to get it 3 over with. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: And I've put in $2,500 again 5 for Lions Park, and this year I've also allocated some money 6 so that Larry can do some improvements out in the west end 7 of the county. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think in Flat Rock 9 there probably will be a need for -- the $27,000 in there, 10 that's L.C.R.A. money. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think that a -- I'll 13 defer to Glenn, really, but do we need a dumpster? Of 14 course, some kind of trash pickup or some kind of a service 15 in Flat Rock. One of the problems I hear is that we don't 16 have any trash cans out there. I heard that earlier. We 17 have them now? You're taking care of them? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: We do have -- we do have trash 19 cans. We -- we're losing about one or two a week right now 20 to vandals and thieves, but we did acquire some more just 21 recently, and we're -- we're talking -- we clean them up and 22 empty them twice a week right now, and we're putting them in 23 our dumpsters there at the Ag facility. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'd like to just continue that 173 1 if we can. We can kind of control it a little bit. If you 2 put a dumpster down there, we have all the -- all the 3 household garbage that will be going into that dumpster. 4 I'd prefer not to do that. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That kind of goes, I 6 guess, to -- I guess maintenance is handled by -- do we need 7 to put any maintenance that he's doing into this budget? 8 Or -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: There's a separate Parks 10 Maintenance budget. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Oh. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Actually, Tab 13, but we'll 13 get to that in just a second. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you want to add any money 16 for Flat Rock Lake Park? 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't know of anything 18 that needs to be really done out there. Actually, as soon 19 as we get this L.C.R.A. grant done, that park's in 20 Commissioner Williams' precinct. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Before redistricting 22 or after? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Either way. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: I have one question, though, 174 1 relative to that. On Flat Rock, the restroom situation that 2 you discussed with me just the other day. That's not part 3 of this budget. That is part of the L.C.R.A. thing; is that 4 correct? 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Part of this year's 6 budget. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yeah, but that's -- 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's in that -- 9 MR. HOLEKAMP: That's not funding that I 10 have? 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No, it's in that $27,000 12 that's listed right now. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Glenn, one quick 14 question about trash pickup. You mentioned -- 15 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You were just talking 17 about Flat Rock Lake, not talking about C.P. park, were you? 18 MR. HOLEKAMP: No. That has handled by -- 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I thought Road and 20 Bridge funded that pickup over there. 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: No, it's been coming out of my 22 budget, but it's been a contract that Road and Bridge has 23 with -- 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I got you, okay. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: -- Mountain Home Services. 175 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Mountain Home? 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Mountain Home Services, yes. 3 But they started taking it out of my budget, so -- 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. All right. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It should come out of 6 your budget. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Yeah, it should. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Judge, on Ingram, 9 what -- which on here is Ingram park? Is that -- would that 10 more accurately be called Ingram Lake Park? Because that's 11 really the only thing we control. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: We run the dam, and don't we 13 have the area there where the -- 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Down the road. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- boat ramp is? Isn't that 16 ours? 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: You have the boat 19 ramp, itself. I know we maintain that. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Don't we own -- is the land 22 around that ours or not? 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: But it would still 24 be -- I would classify all that as Ingram Lake Park, so that 25 we don't get somebody -- indicate to somebody that we've got 176 1 some other park in this area in Ingram that we take care of, 2 because it would be done -- at least I don't think we do. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can call it Ingram Lake 4 Park. That's doable. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, going back to Flat 7 Rock, only thing I can see possibly there is, as everyone 8 will recall, when we did the -- to get the crossing across 9 Third Creek, we basically built a land bridge across there 10 with a big culvert in it, and it is not working real, real 11 well, 'cause it stacks up debris. When one of these 12 railroad cars that are currently at Hermann Sons are freed 13 up, which will probably be this next budget year, that may 14 be a better way to put one of them across there, and may be 15 a better way to handle that crossing. We didn't do it 16 before because of the cost of it. But, anyway, that's 17 something that may come into -- probably the following year, 18 actually, something like that, but it's just something that 19 needs to be mentioned. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Possibly. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: More of a labor, and that 22 Road and Bridge would do it. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's go to Parks 24 Maintenance then, which is, I think, Tab 13. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Okay. The -- what I've done 177 1 this year on the Parks budget is allocated a -- due to 2 the -- the first year, we -- it was kind of a test as to how 3 much time would be required to take care of parks, and it 4 goes from picking up trash to supervising community service 5 to mowing all the different areas that we go to, and taking 6 care of the equipment. I feel like we're at the point where 7 one employee can be designated for that particular position, 8 instead of splitting it. Before, it was split; half of that 9 employee was at the Youth Exhibition Center, and the other 10 half was Parks. And, I reduced the maintenance by that 11 amount in the Youth Exhibition Center and put it all into 12 the Parks budget, as far as a salary is concerned. It 13 just -- it was just changing a position to put it in one 14 place, versus half-and-half. The only other change was, 15 there was an increase in the fuel oil in maintenance. That 16 was due to the fuel increased costs that we've had, and if 17 we ever get rain, probably a little bit more fuel in the 18 equipment, too. 19 Trash service, y'all brought that up. 20 That's -- that's constant increases. These -- I have tried 21 to -- to calculate if it would be beneficial on our part to 22 pick up our own trash instead of paying a service to do it. 23 The reason is, is you pay a service whether the cans are 24 full or not, or empty. They do not pick up anything that's 25 not inside the can, either. If a person dumps a chair next 178 1 to the barrel, it stays there; they do not pick it up, so we 2 end up having to go by there anyway to pick it up. What I'm 3 saying is, is there's a -- I'm seriously considering -- I 4 have not looked at the contract that we currently have with 5 the service on the parks, itself, but there's a possibility 6 we may try to do that in-house. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Full-time parks person? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes. Yes, if do I that, that 9 person could have a schedule deal. That is the main thing. 10 Again, then you get to the capital outlays, and that's 11 pretty much -- those are areas, again, just like I had 12 mentioned earlier about the -- like, on the push lawnmowers. 13 We don't buy lawnmowers until we have absolutely have to, 14 but the mowers that we've been buying, we do not -- we 15 cannot afford to spend $150 to get them fixed, because they 16 cost us $160 new. So, a lot of times, we're -- it's 17 beneficial to us to just go ahead and replace them. That's 18 why I put these push lawnmowers in the budget. Plus we use 19 these for trustees and that sort of thing, push -- for 20 mowing. We don't use riding lawnmowers that much for 21 inmates. 22 (Discussion off the record.) 23 MR. HOLEKAMP: We did budget this year for a 24 chainsaw, which we have never had in the budget, as far as I 25 know. I feel like we're at the point now where we have 179 1 employees -- employees that I feel safe enough with allowing 2 them to use chainsaws. 3 (Laughter.) 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'll try that. And, is there 5 any other questions about that particular budget? 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do your radar units 7 last more than one year? 8 MR. HOLEKAMP: I -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I will say, the jail, as 10 we're doing things such as closing in downstairs, will 11 keep -- will keep all the inmates that we can possibly keep 12 assigned to help out with all the parks and for renovation 13 downstairs. I think that program's been working real well. 14 I wish I could put more inmates in it, but we do have, you 15 know, manpower ability on how many can one guard supervise, 16 and qualifications on the ones that we will allow to do it. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think it's real good 18 having them in parks where they're visible. 19 MR. HOLEKAMP: We do use them, and I -- we 20 could not operate without them. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: The downstairs -- you 22 know, there's some concern about them doing that work 23 downstairs. I have nothing but excellent reports, and 24 they're courteous and kind and good workers, know what 25 they're doing. I mean, it's good -- been good for us 180 1 downstairs. 2 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Well, and it's a 3 volunteer program on their part. But, still, if there's any 4 problem, we yank them out of it, put them somewhere else. 5 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Good deal. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else on the parks 7 budget? If not, let's do the Extension Center, which is -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Extension Center or 9 Exhibition Center? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Extension. 11 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Service. Extension 12 Service. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Extension Service. Eddie. 14 He knows what I'm talking about. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Tab 22. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tab 22. 18 MR. HOLLAND: I thought you were going to ask 19 a while ago if the County Extension office is going to start 20 going out there and watching prisoners while they grow their 21 vegetables out there. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We may have to do that. 23 They may need some lessons. 24 MR. HOLLAND: Some lessons? 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What fertilizer to 181 1 use. 2 MR. HOLLAND: After the person we're going to 3 get in here as the fill-in -- the helper is supposed to work 4 on our master gardener -- see, we're going to have some 5 trained master gardeners, and we probably could send out, 6 seriously -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Send her out there; there'll 8 be lots of volunteers. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You'll have a lot of 10 volunteers with hoes if you bring her out. 11 MR. HOLLAND: So, a possibility. I don't 12 know. I think in our budget, if you looked at it, for the 13 most part, it hasn't changed a whole lot. The bottom line 14 is less than two percent different than what it was. No 15 major, big things in there. Did ask for a little increase 16 in the telephone, 'cause we're probably going to put another 17 line in there where this other person's going to be. You 18 know, to answer phone calls and to get the master gardener 19 thing going. Well, we certainly will have some volunteers 20 doing that, so we'll need a little uncrease. We ran pretty 21 close to the line on that, as it was. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Wait. Wait, Eddie. 23 MR. HOLLAND: That's 420, Telephone. Oh, you 24 don't have a copy? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: No. 182 1 MR. HOLLAND: Oh, sorry. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, I figured. Now, 3 pick it up at telephones again. 4 MR. HOLLAND: See what I'm talking about? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 6 MR. HOLLAND: On the reimbursed travel, 7 that's Laurinda's line item right there, you know, on 8 travel, and she's -- goes over that every year. And -- and 9 we've had some extra we can move around, do some things, but 10 had to do some amendments. She's been been going over 11 there. That increased that $3,500 this -- with this year, 12 and even this year, again, we're going to be able to -- 13 like, this time, I used some money that I had, some of my 14 money, and gave to her, moved some around, and will have to 15 do the same thing as I'm gone. On some of the stock shows 16 when I'm responsible, she's going to have to fill in and do 17 some more of that, 'cause I'm not going to be there. So, we 18 moved it out of my item and just used it, you know, out of 19 my line item. So -- but a little increase in that. And 20 that's not enough, really. I mean, she travels more and 21 does more. But, I increased it some. 22 The lease copier, now, we're thinking about 23 that one every time they come in, we've had so much problems 24 with it. You know, we keep talking to the guy about can we 25 make it work, or is there another model we can run as many 183 1 copies as we run through there? So, if we lease another 2 one, you know, it always goes up and never goes down on 3 lease copier, so the budget is a little bit more. I think 4 that's what he said it runs extra monthly. It would fit, 5 you know, in that range. Capital Outlay is the same. We've 6 got some different items in there, and the big ticket item 7 is a Power Point projector. And, I don't know -- I don't 8 know where the County -- I asked them if anyone had one of 9 those. I guess if we had one, everyone else can start using 10 them, but that is the new thing now. Like, the other day we 11 used -- we have digital cameras, and I can go download it 12 right from there on the disk right into the computer and put 13 it on a projector, and it's a separate kind of projector 14 totally. There's a possibility that I can be able to get 15 matching -- the matching funds which we've done on our 16 computers. If I can do that, I can reduce that down quite a 17 bit. 18 But, I'd -- I have two items on there I 19 didn't have on here that maybe we can kind of shift around. 20 Our laser jet printer has been worked on several times, and 21 they've got those down very reasonable. Maybe I can get one 22 of those on a cost here as well. The new person we're 23 adding in, we've got one computer, an old 486, which is 24 about as old -- most people use those for anchors now. And, 25 we may try to get a cost share, and we can -- if that's the 184 1 case, these figures will all move around, but it will still 2 be basically that $3,750. By using A & M cost share, where 3 they do a fifty-fifty match -- we do have easels down. We 4 don't have any easels. We had the old wooden easels, and -- 5 some of those, and we're going to get some aluminum easels 6 to use for different demonstrations, different things we use 7 all the time in these grooming stables for our 4-H livestock 8 projects, get get someone to build some of those. So, 9 that's the same bottom line, because, basically, I -- you 10 know, again, that's the budget, except for any salaries. 11 And, you say we'll do these later, so any questions? 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I have a question 14 that's kind of related. Someone stopped me this morning and 15 said, "What's the ad in the paper about a halftime County 16 Agent?" 17 MR. HOLLAND: That's the one I'm talking 18 about, that we're interviewing for that on Wednesday. Next 19 Wednesday. And that's the one that A & M is paying 20 everything for. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Now, that's -- 22 MR. HOLLAND: We had, like, about a dozen 23 applicants, and I mean some good applicants. Like old 24 Darrell said, he said -- you know, we had these Comal 25 County, which is a, you know, top county, New Braunfels. He 185 1 said, "We didn't have applicants this good for Comal County 2 for the program leader position." This is a part-time 3 position. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Course not. That 5 shouldn't surprise you. But are these people real, live 6 county agents like you are? 7 MR. HOLLAND: No. No. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So, I could go and be 9 a county agent in Kerr County? 10 MR. HOLLAND: Well, this -- again, this is a 11 helper, and I'm trying to get this person to be more of the 12 horticulture, to be able to return -- you know, that has a 13 horticulture background. Several of these have a 14 horticulture degree, horticulture background. So, they can 15 answer a lot of the homeowner calls, typical homeowner 16 calls, and to be able to have the administrative skills to 17 be able to help organize the Master Gardener class so we can 18 get that thing going. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 20 MR. HOLLAND: These programs -- I mean, I 21 don't expect -- that's where Laurinda's going to have to 22 pick up, and she'll do a lot of the other things that I've 23 been doing. And, she will. You know, the -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Say that again. 25 That's what I'm kind of looking for. 186 1 MR. HOLLAND: She's going to do it. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: She is going to do 3 what? 4 MR. HOLLAND: She'll help do -- when I have 5 this CEU, they're just going to have to share a lot of 6 things together when I'm gone, to be able to shift over and 7 someone cover some of these programs that I, you know, have 8 scheduled, educational programs. So, both of them are going 9 to have to fill in together and coordinate that when I'm 10 gone. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Thanks, Eddie. We 12 appreciate it. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thanks Eddie. 14 MR. HOLLAND: Thank y'all. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Last, but not least, Hill 16 Country Youth Exhibition Center, which I think is 13, isn't 17 it? 18 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Tab 13. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe it's in there. 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: The major changes, telephone. 21 Increased that. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Glenn, would you give 23 me one minute to find it, please? 24 MR. HOLEKAMP: Oh, yes. I'm sorry. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay, I'm ready. 187 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: Telephone, there's an increase 2 due to -- as I explained the other day, I'm having a devil 3 of a time with telephone, trying to figure out what that's 4 going to be. Office supplies, we -- the last year was the 5 first year we had done office supplies for this particular 6 budget. Maintenance in the Youth Exhibition Center, and I 7 underbudgeted, so I increased that this year. Going down, I 8 left on major repairs -- I left that alone. On my sheet, I 9 had kind of put an asterisk there. There's a lot of "ifs." 10 It depends on how much repairs we wish to do at the Ag Barn. 11 As far as upgrades, any -- any other major things that need 12 to be done, I left that number in there from this last year. 13 It could have been zeroed out, and as -- if the Court would 14 like to plug back in some permanent improvements there, they 15 could. That's up to y'all. I have -- there's nothing 16 designated for this money on this year's budget yet. Do you 17 understand what I'm saying on here? I did that just from 18 a -- an accounting standpoint, too, the numbers. 19 Okay. Capital Outlay. The $5,000, which is 20 the second year, lease-purchase for the skid steer loader, 21 we want to buy the vibrating roller attachment for that 22 particular piece of equipment this year, so we can retire 23 the hand-me-down from Road and Bridge. It's a 1952 model 24 that never starts. The other thing that we put on there, we 25 would like to have a computer and a printer for the office 188 1 out there. Currently, the one that we use was the one 2 purchased in the fall of '98 with the grant money from AACOG 3 for the Solid Waste program. I would like to send that 4 particular piece of equipment back and just into Solid Waste 5 for Mr. North. He likes to do his own -- own looking up 6 stuff, and he -- he -- I would really like to be able to 7 upgrade, and I think $1,500 is a reasonable figure. That's 8 a number I got from -- from Shaun. So, that was really 9 pretty much the capital items. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions about the Ag 11 Barn budget? 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I don't have any 13 questions about the budget, but I have a question about the 14 items that were on the memo regarding the roof, 15 air-conditioning, things of that nature. And, that's 16 more -- what is the timing needed to fix those? I mean, how 17 bad are those items? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Glenn, are you cogitating on 19 that? 20 MR. HOLEKAMP: I'm prepared to answer that. 21 Just a second. The -- the roof leak on the Exhibition 22 Center, itself, is primarily isolated to around the 23 air-conditioning units, a round the edges. I think that 24 when we discussed -- and Mike might be able to answer this 25 better than I did. When we talked to the one -- one of 189 1 the -- the vendors, or contractors, the one with the low bid 2 in there, his bid was based on fix. I think the quote 3 was -- is, "I can't communicate real well with you, but I 4 can fix a roof." And -- wasn't it? That's what he said, 5 something like that. 6 MR. SMART: Yes. 7 MR. HOLEKAMP: So, what we're talking about 8 is -- 9 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Everybody specializes, 10 don't they? 11 MR. HOLEKAMP: There are some penetrations in 12 the roof that if -- in the long-range plans, that we -- we 13 want to -- or you want to possibly do some major things out 14 there, I think we could limp along for a year. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We could patch; we patch 16 for a year. 17 MR. HOLEKAMP: Air-conditioner units, I think 18 -- I think we're at the point that we may need to put it in 19 the contract, that we can't guarantee it to be cold in 20 there, 'cause we cannot. It gets cold enough when you turn 21 it down, but the units are running as good as -- and hard as 22 they can. That's it, though. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And there's three of 24 them. 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Five of them. 190 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Five of them. 2 MR. HOLEKAMP: Isn't that correct, Mike? 3 MR. SMART: Yes, sir. 4 MR. HOLEKAMP: Five. And, we've had 5 repairmen and repairmen and repairmen. Right now, we're at 6 the point where we can run them for approximately 8 to 9 7 hours, then we have to shut them off or they freeze up. And 8 that's really when everybody gets really mad at us. And 9 then we can let them set four or five hours and then kick 10 them back on again. So, the air-conditioners cannot keep 11 up. But, there again, that's a major expense. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much major? I 13 just don't recall. 14 MR. HOLEKAMP: 43 -- 45. 15 MR. SMART: 45. 16 MR. HOLEKAMP: $45,000. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: That was -- the high bid was 18 49. Most of the rest were either 27, 30. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What was the Benno's 20 Electric? 21 MR. HOLEKAMP: That was to bring some of the 22 electrical to code in that one barn. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We're not going to. 24 (Discussion off the record.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My other question, there 191 1 is just -- it's more an observation, something we didn't 2 really think about yesterday. On the new configuration we 3 looked at, which will be tearing down this existing -- 4 existing old area and build a new one there, what do you do 5 during the construction phase? Cancel all events? And I'm 6 just posing a question, because you'd -- you can't really 7 phase very well -- I mean, you can keep the main arena open 8 and there'd be construction on the two sides of it, I think, 9 but you would have to change some events or not use it at 10 all for a period of time, because you -- 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: You might have to do 12 some of that. If you have the first arena built, you could 13 shift some things over there, probably. Some may have to 14 go. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But, if you do -- if you 16 build the first arena -- I'm just not going to argue, but if 17 you build the first one first, putting off -- this is 18 probably the worst spot. Be two to three years before you 19 do that one. We may be better off just to tear down, it can 20 be ready for to it tear it and go. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: My concern, and my 22 friends' concerns, is the time between stock shows. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yeah. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: When you'll be able to 25 tear it down and rebuild it, have it ready to go for the 192 1 following stock show. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Maybe right after a stock 3 show, you could phase it. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Do it the way you do 5 football stadium expansions. 6 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tear down the pens and 7 keep the first part open as long as you can. And then tear 8 the front down. Depends on if it's used during the stock 9 show, the hog pens. Anyway, that's on the ground. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: We get a contractor, but my 11 thought -- I kind of like what Buster's suggestion is. The 12 day after the stock show is over, they're in there. The one 13 arena, they could probably get that. If we do the second 14 arena, the larger arena -- that's a fairly simple 15 construction, and that -- might be able to get that done 16 within the year cycle to the next stock show, and then you'd 17 have the two big arenas to phase your stock show, whether or 18 not you had the exhibit hall. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I think you would need 20 the exhibit hall. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: You might be able to -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: If your plan is ready, if 23 they're ready to go in February -- 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: At the end of the 25 Texas game, the first bulldozer pulled in while the people 193 1 were still filing out. It was the last game of the season; 2 it was for the north end zone expansion, and of course they 3 had to actually miss two seasons of being -- having all that 4 much usable. But, it was for the same reason. You just 5 take the major event, the last possible time you can, and 6 then that's the first day you can start tearing things down 7 and building, and you build to schedule. And, is it -- 8 could we extend the date a little bit for the -- for the 9 stock show for the youth? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: No. 11 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Pretty well locked 12 in. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Locked in, with all the 14 other shows around. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's to phase in the big 16 ones to -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because I heard Bill 18 say that, you know, the -- like, a 14-month -- there's, 19 like, a 14-month deal to get to the first capability, I 20 think. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I think -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That was a little more 23 grandiose. 24 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Fourteen for the big 25 arena, but that can start anytime without interfering with 194 1 the stock show. 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That can start -- 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Well, we have to be 4 careful about that -- well, yeah. The answer, of course, is 5 yeah, you can do that, but you'd have to be careful that you 6 don't cut off all the traffic lanes and accesses and all 7 that, which is sort of hard to do. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Anyway -- 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: We need to take a 10 look at what's scheduled and so forth, and try to brainstorm 11 it. But, not today. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That -- yeah. That 13 would be a good subject for a meeting. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else on the 15 Exhibition Center? Anything else on anything else? We'll 16 start waiting for some revenue figures and start putting 17 some things together. I'll remind everybody that we have a 18 meeting at noon at City Council next Tuesday. We all have 19 our books on that. And then we'll come back here at 20 2 o'clock. First thing we'll do is accept the bids on the 21 -- on the radio communication, so we can get Trott involved 22 in evaluating those bids, and then we'll have our workshop 23 on the volunteer fire departments. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Are you going to call 25 Trott and see whether we want a representative when we 195 1 accept this, or should I -- do you want them here? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Call them and tell them we've 3 got the bids in. We've got three boxes. We'll be opening 4 them at 2 o'clock Tuesday. If they want to be here, fine. 5 If not, ask them what they want us to do as far as getting 6 them the materials so they can evaluate. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Evidently, somebody with 8 -- and I was outside seeing exactly who submitted the bids, 9 but somebody with Motorola had requested that we let them 10 know when they're going to be opened, 'cause they want a 11 representative here. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would also -- 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: It will be 2 o'clock on 14 Tuesday. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One other little 16 administrative thing for that -- for that workshop on the 17 fire department contract at 2 o'clock Tuesday. I would 18 really appreciate -- and I'm going to do it; I've already 19 contacted two. I'll contact the other one this weekend. If 20 you could contact -- if we could contact the fire chiefs in 21 our precincts, make sure they are aware, because we sent the 22 notices to their fire department addresses. Some of these 23 guys, I think, check the post office box maybe once a week, 24 whether they need to or not. So, could you just call the 25 chiefs and make sure they are aware of it, and tell them 196 1 please show up, have the comments. They have copies of the 2 draft. So -- 3 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That's what? 4 2 o'clock Tuesday? 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: 2 o'clock Tuesday. 6 MS. SOVIL: They were sent in the mail. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I know it. That's 8 what I'm saying. Some of those guys -- 9 MS. SOVIL: And copies of the draft. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right, copies of the 11 draft and the notice. So, they've got it all with a notice 12 that spells it out. But -- 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy, when are you going 14 to have an updated -- all these things put in the budget 15 with the new total number? Or have you done that already? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: We still have a lot of 17 decisions to make. How much of the wish list are we going 18 to go for, or -- 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, I don't -- I don't want 20 to do anything until we have some idea about salaries. I 21 mean -- 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: -- really, I can't get a 24 total without the salaries, or I could go ahead and put it 25 in at the current salaries. 197 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that would be 2 a good exercise, because it would tell us -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where we are. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Gives us a false sense, 5 though. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think those 2 and a half 8 percent increases don't include -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Educational. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- educational or longevity 11 step increases. It doesn't include elected officials' 12 increases. So, if we do that, we're -- you know, there's 13 about $200,000 in there that would go into salary line items 14 that's not reflected. So, it gives us, to me, a kind of a 15 false image of where we are. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about -- I mean, 17 how -- how hard is it to go in and put in all the longevity 18 increases and the 2 and a half percent increase and just see 19 where it comes out with all the numbers that we've been 20 asked for? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, but do you want to put 22 all the numbers in, including all of the wish list? 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Not -- I would not do the 24 wish list, but everything else. Everything with the 25 changes. 198 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Certainly not the wish 2 list for that exercise. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Tommy's going to have to 4 input most of it anyway. I'm not the one doing it, so, 5 Tommy, if I'm wrong -- 6 MR. TOMLINSON: I did not hear any objection 7 on -- on some of the changes that were made by the -- by the 8 department heads during this process. And, there -- there 9 were some -- there's a lot of line items that are different 10 from what's actually on the request. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I would take that to 12 mean that those were amended. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: I would say most of the 14 operating-type expenses, like postage and computer supplies 15 and telephone, we're not going to quibble with, because I 16 think we all recognize that those are legitimate. You and I 17 can sit down and go through that if you want to, but the 18 question I would have would be, like, Jannett cut her -- her 19 overtime from $11,000 to $7,000 or $7,500 based upon getting 20 another position. Well, if we don't give her another 21 position, then we need to restore her overtime. You know, 22 the extra position was on the wish list. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: There was a couple 24 like that. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty? 199 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I cut my overtime, 2 period. It's not based on anything else. My wish list is 3 -- yeah. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- I don't know. 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: See, then I increased 6 some line items, like the software maintenance. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. That's -- 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: We weren't paying it 9 before, where if you figure out my total bill, that's a 10 $30,000 increase in the operating budget part. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I will get -- I'm 12 going to get started this weekend. I don't know how much I 13 can get done before Monday, but I'm going to get started 14 with the database on the analysis on elected salaries so we 15 can -- if we can get that number, and I'm -- we'll have to 16 see how close that comes out to what was in the Judge's 17 memo, et cetera, but we can feed that in at some point in 18 the next week, I would hope. In the next week, we could 19 have that part of it. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy and I will sit down 21 next week and go through what -- what we've talked about 22 this week, and I've got a pretty good sense of -- I think, 23 about where we're in agreement and where we have some issues 24 left. We'll see what we can come up with. We're adjourned. 25 (Budget workshop adjourned at 4:19 p.m.) 200 1 - - - - - - - - - - 2 3 4 5 6 STATE OF TEXAS | 7 COUNTY OF KERR | 8 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 9 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 10 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 11 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 12 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 24th day of September, 13 2001. 14 15 16 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 17 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 18 Certified Shorthand Reporter 19 20 21 22 23 24 25