1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONERS COURT 9 Special Session 10 Wednesday, August 29, 2001 11 1:30 p.m. 12 Commissioners' Courtroom 13 Kerr County Courthouse 14 Kerrville, Texas 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 PRESENT: FREDERICK L. HENNEKE, Kerr County Judge H. A. "BUSTER" BALDWIN, Commissioner Pct. 1 24 WILLIAM "BILL" WILLIAMS, Commissioner Pct. 2 JONATHAN LETZ, Commissioner Pct. 3 25 LARRY GRIFFIN, Commissioner Pct. 4 2 1 I N D E X August 29, 2001 2 PAGE 1.1 Consider and discuss issues relating to proposed 3 FY 2002 Kerr County Budget 3 4 1.2 Consider and discuss approval of proposed FY 2002 Kerr County Budget and set a public 5 hearing for consideration of such proposed budget -- 6 1.3 Consider and discuss approval of proposed FY 2001 tax rate and set a public hearing for 7 consideration of such proposed tax rate -- 8 --- Adjourned 94 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 1 On Wednesday, August 29, 2001, at 1:30 p.m., a special 2 meeting of the Kerr County Commissioners Court was held in 3 the Commissioners' Courtroom, Kerr County Courthouse, 4 Kerrville, Texas, and the following proceedings were had in 5 open court: 6 P R O C E E D I N G S 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is 1:30 p.m. on Wednesday, 8 August 29th, Year 2001. We'll call to order this special 9 session of the Kerr County Commissioners Court. First item 10 for consideration, and probably the only item we're going to 11 get to, is to consider and discuss budget issues. However, 12 before we go to that, there was a letter in today's paper 13 from former County Judge Bob Denson, in which he raises some 14 questions which I think are important for the public to have 15 answered. And I'm going to take this opportunity to ask the 16 Auditor, Tommy Tomlinson, to come up and ask him to respond 17 to those questions. The first question that Judge Denson 18 asks -- and I'm reading from the letter in today's Daily 19 Times -- is, is the County debt increasing? Tommy, what's 20 the status of the County debt, as it is today, compared to 21 where it was in 1998? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, it's the same as '98. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Same as '98. Now, we are 24 considering a debt, financing the radio project. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. That's 4 1 correct. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we -- we would add some 3 more debt at the end of this fiscal year if we go through 4 with that. But right now, the debt is the same as it was in 5 1998, which is the jail bond and the tax anticipation note. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the debt has not 8 increased any in the last two and a half years. 9 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And, just -- on that same 11 topic, when's the jail bond due to be paid off and when's 12 the C.O. due to be paid off? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: The jail bond, as I recall, 14 was an 18-year amortization. That was in '94. So -- 15 MS. NEMEC: 2012. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: 2012. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: And the other one was seven, 18 and that was in '97. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, four more years. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Four more years, yeah. 21 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: In reality, the debt 22 is less than it was in 1998. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. We've paid -- paid some 24 off. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: The second question raised by 5 1 Judge Denson was, are our reserves decreasing? And I guess 2 the question I would ask to you is, are you, as our 3 Auditor -- our independent Auditor, satisfied with the -- 4 the state of the reserves for the county? 5 MR. TOMLINSON: For the General Fund, or 6 the activities that are supported by the general M & O tax, 7 yes. The answer is yes. For Road and Bridge, I would like 8 to see it higher, but I think it's okay. As far as -- as 9 the guidelines set out by the Comptroller's -- Comptroller's 10 Office, the Comptroller recommends three months. We have 11 three months in each one of those areas for -- for funds 12 supported by the Road and Bridge tax and the activities 13 supported by the general M & O tax. We do have three months 14 operating capital, as recommended by the Comptroller. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: So far as the Road and Bridge 16 is concerned, the budget that we're going to discuss today 17 adds money to those reserves, and the Court has discussed 18 that we want to get the reserves back up to where you're 19 comfortable with them over a two- or three-year period. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: That's correct. We -- in the 21 tax rate schedule that you have, I've transferred tax rate 22 sufficient enough to move $140,000 from fund balances out of 23 the general M & O funds to Road and Bridge. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: The last question that was 25 raised by Judge Denson really is a -- is kind of a general 6 1 one. Are County expenditures increasing, and if so, how are 2 they funded? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, the answer -- oh, yes, 4 they're increasing. Yes, they are. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: And they're funded by the 6 traditional -- 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Traditional methods; through 8 fees, fines, taxes. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. I think it's 10 important, in light of the letter, which was also in the 11 Mountain Sun, that those questions specifically be answered 12 as soon as possible so that there is no question among the 13 citizens of Kerr County as to what the financial condition 14 of this county is. 15 MR. TOMLINSON: I would like to add one thing 16 about Road and Bridge. And, this -- this has been a trend 17 over the last five or six years, that -- that the ratio of 18 non-tax revenues that support Road and Bridge have -- have 19 increased every year. Right -- today, for this budget, 20 we're -- we are estimating almost a million, three in 21 non-tax revenues. In the budget, we plan to levy taxes of 22 only $522,000. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What are those non-tax 24 revenues? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: They're all associated with 7 1 license plates. And, so, that -- that's one reason that I 2 have -- that I'm not too excited about the fund balance, 3 because the -- the collections of those non-tax revenues 4 are monthly, and so we -- we can count on a twelfth of those 5 revenues to come in every month, so we don't have to wait 6 till December/January to collect the majority of whatever it 7 is that supports that activity. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thank you. Any other 9 questions? 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- just a comment, 11 which is what -- I emphasize what Tommy said, that we're -- 12 we currently meet the Comptroller's guidelines, but 13 historically we've always exceeded those guidelines. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: That's right. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: So, I mean, that's why, 16 you know, he'd like to see the Road and Bridge -- or we'd 17 like to see the Road and Bridge balance high, 'cause we have 18 traditionally kept these balances higher than the 19 Comptroller -- just because of our more conservative 20 approach, historically, than it's been before I was a 21 Commissioner. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: And, again, we have committed 23 ourselves as a Court to restore those balances in the Road 24 and Bridge Department. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Above -- 8 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Above what's recommended by 2 the Comptroller. Okay. Everyone's been given a chance to 3 -- at least been given the further revised budget, along 4 with the revised budget summary. I guess, before we start, 5 does anyone have any general comments they want to make with 6 regard to where we are at this stage? 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- and I don't 8 know. My general comment that I'd like to make is going 9 back to elected officials' salary, and it's something I've 10 wrestled with quite a bit, talked to quite a few people 11 about, and it's an area that -- if this is an area that we 12 cut -- and I would almost like to put it on the table, give 13 a 5, 10 percent increase this year, and appoint a committee 14 of -- not necessarily appointed by the Commissioners Court, 15 to address this, and have recommendations from the 16 community. Because I think it's very -- it puts the Court 17 always in a difficult position, and elected officials, in 18 that if you run for an office, you know what the salary's 19 going to be, but at some time I think that you also -- you 20 do need to get these increased or competitive with what 21 other counties are paying and what the market, I guess, per 22 se, should bear. But, just -- it's something that I would 23 like to see on the table. And, to me, the -- the committee 24 could come from -- and I just -- many different sources, but 25 the grand jury pool. That's something that we have no 9 1 control over as a Commissioners Court, so it couldn't ever 2 be said that we're stacking someone to look at the salaries. 3 And, even if we do a higher salary increase, I think it 4 would be worthwhile to appoint a commission to look at it 5 and give a recommendation from the community as -- you know, 6 which we have not done since I've been on the Court, 7 something along that line. And, I would recommend doing -- 8 doing that step, even if we go with the amounts recommended 9 in the budget right now, or if we decide to reduce it. It 10 just seems to me that it's a way to get input from the 11 community, and I think that my gut feeling would be that 12 they would probably be more generous than we are to 13 ourselves. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, again, when we -- 15 everyone keeps in mind that what we have set out to do -- 16 look at is to bring our salaries up to the average. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: What our comparable counties 19 are. And, I would suggest that most people in the community 20 would think we ought to be paid above the average, so it 21 might end up to our favor. But I don't have any difficulty 22 with that. I think you -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: One thing about it, if 24 you went to some sort of committee or commission like that, 25 I would think you'd want to have somebody on it that knows 10 1 something about salary level determination. I mean, not 2 that you couldn't have representation that's drawn out of a 3 hat, jury pool or anything, but you'd want somebody on there 4 that -- maybe we could go find somebody, I don't know, but 5 we might want somebody on there that -- that sort of says, 6 "Here's the way it's done in industry," or "Here's the way 7 it's done in other agencies of government" or something, 8 other than just winging it, because winging it is what's 9 gotten us where we are now. You can do it on the back of an 10 envelope, and you have people make suggestions off the top 11 of their head, but with no more rigor than that in the 12 process, you end up with a hodgepodge. 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand exactly 14 what Commissioner Letz is saying; it's taking the politics 15 out of the process, but I would disagree with him a little 16 bit. You know, if -- if I were going to appoint -- 17 personally going to appoint a couple of people, I mean, 18 there is not politics in my appointments at all. It would 19 be very bright, budget-minded people out of the retired 20 community that understand what we're doing, and, you know, 21 do -- they're not going to do anything in particular in 22 favor of me. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And don't want their 24 name attached with something that's stupid. 25 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's exactly right. 11 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: I want to make a point 2 that -- that the way that it's been laid out this year is 3 really not politics, because it's a statistical study of 4 what comparable salaries are. I mean -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- no one has sat down and 7 subjectively come up with proposed salary levels. 8 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Right. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: We've taken information from 10 counties that have the same population that we do, and based 11 any -- any recommendations or any adjustments on the average 12 of what 18 counties our size do. So, it may be perceived as 13 political, but it's about as unpolitical a process as you 14 can get. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Judge, does there not 16 already exist a compensation committee through which 17 compensation matters for elected officials could be -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: No. There's a grievance 19 committee. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Grievance committee. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which is not exactly the same 22 animal. 23 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But it comes from the 24 same group. I mean, I -- it's just an idea. It's a way to 25 get input, but, I mean, certainly we can't do it this year. 12 1 Under any of the proposals that I've heard, you know, 2 elected officials are going to be interviewed again next 3 year, so seems like it's an opportune time early this year 4 to really look at it and figure out the best way to get some 5 oversight. And, I mean, I agree that -- I don't think there 6 was any intent at all to have population -- to pick the 7 counties that were closest to us and come up with numbers, 8 but then you hear Linda has two district courts in this -- 9 in this area, and then we have so many -- we have more cars 10 here or, you know, this -- and it gets political no matter 11 how you do it. So, to me, it's just a way to get some other 12 input. The decision's still in this Court; we still have to 13 make it. We're going to have to raise our hand and vote yes 14 or no on elected officials' salaries. But -- 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I'm sorry to say it, 16 Fred, but your comment -- perception is about 50 percent of 17 this game. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think it's more. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's why we have to 20 be very, very careful of how we go about doing the County's 21 business. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think it's more than 23 50 percent. But, also, when you're doing what's right, 24 sometimes you have to do what's right, regardless. I like 25 your suggestion. I mean, I like what you're suggesting, 13 1 that -- I like the way your suggestion is -- and I'm going 2 to paraphrase what I heard -- is we go ahead and start the 3 process and make adjustments this year, and we get a -- a 4 nonpolitical group to oversee the process and to make 5 recommendations, and I like that. I have no problems with 6 that at all. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Can't hurt. I don't 8 want to do it any more. 9 (Laughter.) 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I've done it once, too. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I've done it once too. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: That's the only comment I 13 had before we -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anyone else have any -- 15 MS. NEMEC: I -- 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff? 17 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Go ahead, Barbara. 19 MS. NEMEC: I just want to say that, you 20 know, when you talk about -- about it not being political, I 21 know that this model did not turn out the way everybody 22 wished it had, and there's a lot of low percentages on here, 23 and there's a few that are high, but we simply got on the 24 phone and asked for the information and they gave it to us, 25 and that's what's on here, and it's current information. 14 1 Maybe the first model that came out was not. I don't know; 2 I wasn't here that day. But I can tell you that I, myself, 3 got on the phone. I'm the one that got these figures for 4 Commissioner Griffin, and these are true figures. And, so, 5 the way the model was done, unfortunately, the percentages 6 have turned out the way it has, but we all knew that that's 7 the way it was going to be done and agreed to it. And I 8 know that there's some question about, well, you know, how 9 many courts and all that, and I think that y'all are trying 10 to address that next year, and so that -- that's all I 11 wanted to say about the model. You know, I think it was -- 12 it was fair. It didn't -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree 100 percent. 14 I was referring to the political part of it and appointing a 15 committee next year. I wasn't -- Larry did a wonderful job. 16 I like what he did. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff, you have a comment? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I want to change 19 subjects just for a minute. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's surprising. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Myself and -- and the 22 County Attorney, Motley, just got back from San Antonio and 23 our negotiations with Daily Wells. One thing I wanted to 24 assure the Court, everybody down there agreed they'd have 25 bottom-line figures of everything by next Friday, and so 15 1 that the Court could prepare -- 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Friday-week? Or this coming 3 Friday? 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No, Friday, a week. The 5 other thing that was talked about and I asked directly was, 6 in this first year's -- as far as the lease, as far as the 7 maintenance and everything on these towers and on this 8 system, it is -- the first year is all covered, either under 9 the warranty or in the price that you will have. That 10 doesn't have to be in the actual budget for this lease stuff 11 and that in this coming budget, which I think is important 12 to consider. 13 The last thing that I want to put out there 14 is that I've got Chief Deputy Graham and other people 15 already searching for grants to help fund this project, and 16 to help fund some other things that -- that we really do 17 need in the Sheriff's Office. The problem's going to be, in 18 all those grants I've seen so far -- and I don't know how 19 Tommy can do it, or if we'll have it in there, whether 20 they're with this project or other projects that we'd like 21 to get done -- they are going to need matching funds. I 22 don't know if that can be worked into this budget, 'cause I 23 couldn't tell you what they are. It's going to depend on 24 how much we apply for. You know, it's going to cost money 25 to make money to help pay for this system, but I think that 16 1 would be -- could be a great benefit in paying for the 2 system and paying for other projects that we have -- that 3 we'd like to do. 4 But, I don't know if there can also be, in 5 the budget deal or in that -- the General Fund deal, a -- an 6 amount somewhere in there that, if we find a good grant 7 later this year or later this coming year, to apply for 8 something, or if the County does. 'Cause the Judge and I 9 had talked about it, where there could be a set of surplus 10 funds somewhere that could be used for matching funds for 11 grants that the County -- whether it be Road and Bridge, 12 whether it be somebody in the courthouse or the Sheriff's 13 office apply for this. If that grant application was 14 approved by the Court to go -- because that's our biggest 15 problem in getting other grants. The department received 16 over $500,000 in grants this last year, this last budget 17 year, but we're going to have to have matching funds to 18 apply for some other grants if we need it. Just something 19 to keep in mind. Thank you. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Linda? 21 MS. UECKER: While you're thinking about the 22 elected official salary issue, I'd like to address the Court 23 on another subject, if I may. Last year, the County hired 24 the Nash people to do a study to equalize salaries of 25 similar positions, not only within the area and other 17 1 counties, but also within the county, and I think Monday it 2 was the bookkeeper, whatever the position is -- the 3 accounting clerk in the County Clerk's office was raised to 4 a 17/1. And, at this time, I'm asking the Court to do the 5 same thing for my senior bookkeeper. She takes in and 6 disburses over $350,000 a month, and not only that, she's a 7 12-year employee and is a supervisor, and in my absence or 8 the chief deputy's absence, is that third person in charge. 9 And I have a copy of her job description, if anybody wants 10 to see it, that would certainly justify that. But, I 11 think -- based on the Court's action on Monday, I think it 12 justifies the fact that if we're going to go by the Nash 13 study, we need to keep those similar positions equal. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. All right. Do you 15 want to hand that out now? 16 MS. UECKER: I've got one copy of it. I can 17 make some more, or you can pass it around or whatever, 18 whatever the Court's pleasure is. Do you want me to make 19 some more copies? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, just give it to us. 21 We'll pass it around. Thanks, Linda. Anything else? 22 MS. UECKER: That's all. I'm just asking for 23 the Court to consider that effective in this year's budget, 24 before budget's finalized. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. All right. Does 18 1 anyone else have anything they want to offer? Tommy? 2 MR. TOMLINSON: Y'all had a few housekeeping 3 changes? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's get -- yeah, 5 we'll get back to that in just a second. David? 6 MR. MOTLEY: I prepared a little handout; 7 it's just a summary of comments regarding the elected 8 officials' pay raise model. I did a summary on top and a 9 spreadsheet on the back, and it may be easier to hand them 10 out. But, in the averaging of the salaries of the County 11 Judges in the other 18 counties, included in their income 12 was their salary, travel, and compensation for service on 13 the Juvenile Board. Those counties, by statute, 14 specifically the Human Resources Code, may have different 15 amounts of compensation for their service on the Juvenile 16 Board, and some of those counties, in fact, are allowed as 17 much as $5,000 more than is allowed by a Kerr County 18 Juvenile Board member. And, so, if you take that Juvenile 19 Board compensation, travel, and salary, and average that in 20 as just one income figure, it allows the Kerr County Judge 21 to take advantage of those higher statutory limits that 22 those other six counties enjoy, in -- by averaging them in. 23 Also, I feel it's improper in the model for the -- for a 24 COLA to be applied to any portion of the County Judge income 25 attributable to compensation for service on the Juvenile 19 1 Board, because the statute specifically limits the 2 compensation to $1,200, no more. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: My understanding is that in 4 the revised numbers, that $1,200 was backed out before the 5 COLA was addressed. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes, it looks like it 7 was. 8 MR. MOTLEY: I don't know what revised 9 numbers y'all are talking about. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Is that correct, Barbara? 11 MS. NEMEC: Yes. I think they're in the 12 budget, but I have to give Tommy that new number after I 13 back out the $1,200. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's already been 15 accomplished. 16 MR. MOTLEY: The most recent thing that I saw 17 was the handout -- the one with the 60 and the 100, with the 18 19 counties, and it was certainly not backed out at that 19 point. So, if it's been done, I'd like to see a copy, 20 maybe, of the new one. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right here. 22 MR. MOTLEY: And, really -- 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: David, you can have my 24 copy. 25 MR. MOTLEY: Thank you. Oh, man, that's a 20 1 big one. I don't know if the Court really intended to 2 increase the elected officials' travel, but to apply a COLA 3 to the travel allowance, in effect, increases that travel 4 allowance, although it may be only by $15. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: The travel allowance has been 6 rolled in as part of compensation; it's no longer a separate 7 travel allowance. 8 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: And that's done for every 10 elected official. 11 MR. MOTLEY: Okay. And I would still 12 maintain that the -- as far as income, the definition of 13 income used in the model, that as to the County Judge, it 14 should include the elected official salary under the budget 15 called County Court, in that that money comes from general 16 County funds and does not -- is not a fee. And I say it's 17 not a fee because the County is prohibited by law from 18 paying fees to salaried officials for services that are paid 19 for by their salaries. And, that's the summary of the 20 comments. And I did do a spreadsheet, and the spreadsheet 21 does back out the $1,200 and the COLA on the $1,200 -- I 22 mean, it backs out the $1,200 in determining the other -- it 23 backs down to $1,200 the other Judges' Juvenile Board 24 compensation, and then on the Kerr County application of 25 COLA, it takes out -- and this may be error, from what the 21 1 Judge has just told me -- it takes out the travel and the 2 Juvenile Board for figuring the COLA, and perhaps it should 3 have the -- the travel allowance included in there for 4 that -- for this calculation. So, that might be an error, 5 but I hadn't seen this new model. So, anyway, that's really 6 the limit of my comments. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Barbara? 8 MS. NEMEC: I would just like to say 9 something, just to set the record straight. We've been 10 hearing for two weeks about the County Judge's $9,000 being 11 fees or salary or whatever, and I just want to make the 12 comment that we have been doing that ever since I've been 13 here. And if we have been doing it wrong, it's up to Tommy 14 and I to get together and figure out the right way to do it, 15 and we're willing to do that. There's been some implication 16 that it's the County Judge that has set this salary for 17 himself. He did not even know what his salary was when he 18 first started, how it worked or anything. So, I just want 19 to get the record straight, that if it's been done wrong, 20 it's been the County Treasurer's office and the County 21 Auditor's office that did not set up that line item to be 22 paid the right way. We also have not been paying him the 23 $10 that he is allowed to be paid under the law, and this 24 next coming budget, Tommy and I will get together and 25 correct that. 22 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Anyone else have 2 any budget issues they want to bring up? 3 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Franklin? 5 MR. JOHNSTON: I have a couple items, and I 6 think Leonard has a couple of follow-up items on our budget. 7 And, especially after the meeting Monday night, the job 8 description I just handed out is for the administrative 9 assistant, which I think we're -- we propose to change the 10 name to coordinator. And, all the items in blue ink are the 11 additional duties she had added, I think, starting last year 12 or this year, the jobs that she performs having to do with 13 911 work and road naming, which were beyond her previous job 14 description. And we have we had the -- I think she's now 15 classified as a 17/5. We propose to increase that to a 16 19/5. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 18 MR. JOHNSTON: And I also have one other 19 comment on the department heads at Road and Bridge. It's 20 our understanding that there was a 2 1/2 percent COLA, plus 21 a 2 1/2 percent longevity, plus a 5 percent increase this 22 year. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: There was no longevity. Two 24 and a half percent COLA plus a 5 percent increase was what 25 we were working off of on this model. 23 1 MR. JOHNSTON: Okay. I thought longevity 2 came just automatically with the number of years. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not as a department head, no. 4 MR. JOHNSTON: Oh. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's for employees. 6 MR. JOHNSTON: That would probably explain 7 why we thought the math was wrong. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Might have something to do 9 with it. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That is a five plus 11 two and a half. It is five plus two and a half in the 12 current run. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's correct? Okay. 15 MR. JOHNSTON: That's the comments I have. I 16 think Leonard has some additional ones. 17 MR. ODOM: Won't take long. Looking at the 18 budget, what we presented, if we go to 611, we submitted in 19 June -- and this is line item Crew Salaries, 111 -- we 20 submitted $519,094. Then we were asked to resubmit that, 21 because we had a 600 budget. What we see as what's being 22 proposed is that it's $506,000. We were trying to figure 23 out what was going on. What I believe has occurred with the 24 Treasurer or the Auditor, whoever did this, is they took 25 last year's budget, $493,745, and then they added the 24 1 cost-of-living, the COLA, and they came up with $506,000. 2 What we submitted in our budget was exactly the same that 3 I'm working off this year, and for the next two years, and 4 -- and previously, since y'all have been here, we've reduced 5 it a little bit each year. So, it was basically everything 6 calculated to the dollar. What we had in here was the merit 7 increases, as we were directed that we could work it into 8 the budget, and apparently that was not done. We had -- 9 one, two, three, four, five people that had merit increases. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Leonard, I believe you're 11 right in that what has happened here is, in making a 12 calculation, the Treasurer has picked up -- 13 MR. ODOM: Picked up the wrong number. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 15 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, there was no conscious 17 decision on the part of the Court not to allow you the 18 additional person or the merit raises that had been squeezed 19 out of your own budget. 20 MR. ODOM: Yes, sir. 21 MS. NEMEC: Judge, if they don't give me a 22 copy of what merit raises they want for their employees, I 23 don't know. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, that's the circle that 25 needs to be completed. 25 1 MR. ODOM: Well, I understand, and we'll try 2 to do a little bit better, but we submitted all the data 3 that was asked for, and the first time I think we did that. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can fix it. 5 MR. ODOM: But we do get that slot that we 6 had also, right? 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: What's the right 8 number? The requested $519,094? 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Should be -- 10 MR. ODOM: Well, plus 2 1/2 percent COLA, 11 which will be $532,072, if my numbers are right. And, of 12 course, that would change the FICA and retirement a little 13 bit, but all that we submitted. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To the penny. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. Okay. 16 MR. ODOM: Thank you. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Sheriff? 18 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: On this current 19 budget -- or on the proposal, the only thing -- I got with 20 Tommy the other day and we got what we had talked about 21 during the last meeting, what was actually being cut and 22 what was actually being granted or included. The only thing 23 I would seriously urge the Court to consider, one is the two 24 scanners that we have asked for. Judge, you got to see what 25 our records condition is out there with the number of 26 1 employees, the type business we have. We've never been able 2 to scan in records. I don't know where, at all possible, I 3 could cut from my budget in what you're proposing to be able 4 to get those, but those are desperately needed items in our 5 department. And then the four patrolmen, just trying to 6 work shifts constantly with an average of three on the 7 street is really hard on our patrol people; it's really hard 8 to cover this county correctly as it should be. And, as 9 we've talked about before, the one investigator, the 10 additional investigator. Currently my investigators carry 11 anywhere from a 70 to a 90 per investigation case load of 12 active cases that they're responsible for, and it is really 13 hard to make headway on cases, especially when you have 14 major things come up, such as we've had in this last year, 15 that really draw on the entire department, and it puts all 16 those other investigations off. I just would urge the Court 17 to consider finding a way, if we can possibly, to fund the 18 patrol positions, the investigator, at least, the warrant 19 position. With the way that the Court has granted the ten 20 that I can swear in and -- and certify in the jail, that can 21 help us with a lot of transports, eventually, so the warrant 22 guys can actually get back to doing warrants. So, that 23 position, I can -- can forgive and give up, but I really 24 need the investigator, the patrolmen, and those scanners. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Rusty? 27 1 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Yes? 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Prioritize between the -- 3 the patrol deputies and the investigator. Which -- out of 4 those two, if you only get one or the other, which is the 5 higher priority to you? 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The patrol. I would 7 have to, because we've got to have that on the street. And 8 I can actually -- if I had to, I can try and get them to do 9 some of the investigations, but they so interlock with each 10 other in trying to get good, thorough investigations done in 11 cases in the court, I really would hate to prioritize, but 12 if you made me do it, I'd have to say patrol. We need the 13 guys on the road. 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thank you. 15 MS. NEMEC: Looking at this that Mr. Odom 16 submitted, I see on here there's -- and, first of all, it 17 sure would be nice if every elected official/department head 18 gave me this before today; like, two months ago, when the 19 Judge sent a letter and asked them to do that. It would 20 make things a lot easier. These figures could have already 21 been inputted and we would have known what those figures 22 were. Anyway, what I see on here is a column for longevity. 23 Longevity is not retroactive; is that correct? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 25 MS. NEMEC: So, there would -- in that case, 28 1 there would be no one that is eligible to receive longevity 2 this year. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Unless they will be here a 4 year on the start of October 1st. 5 MR. ODOM: And they did not get an increase 6 last year. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 8 MS. NEMEC: And they did not -- 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, did not get an increase 10 as a result of the salary adjustment. Now, their COLA -- 11 MS. NEMEC: So, you're saying that there are 12 some on here that aren't going to receive that, to get the 13 record straight, so we're -- 14 MR. ODOM: Well, what I've got so far says 15 that everybody I've got listed, with exception of Frank and 16 I up there, should get it. That's what our records show. 17 MS. NEMEC: Well, I hear you had longevity 18 for you and Frank. 19 MR. ODOM: But that was -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They acknowledged that 21 that was -- 22 MR. ODOM: This number doesn't reflect. 23 That's what we submitted at first, and then we were told, 24 "Don't worry about administration." 25 MS. NEMEC: Okay. So, these -- two, four, 29 1 six -- six employees that you have on here -- 2 MR. ODOM: Five or whatever that number is. 3 MS. NEMEC: -- you're saying that they are 4 supposed to get longevity? 5 MR. ODOM: Yes. 6 MS. NEMEC: They have been here a year and 7 did not get a raise? 8 MR. ODOM: They did not get anything in the 9 Nash study, and they've been here a year since that time. 10 MS. HARDIN: Weren't we supposed to do 11 longevity every three years? Like -- 12 MS. NEMEC: It was not retroactive. That's 13 what I'm saying -- trying to say, that it is not 14 retroactive. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: That program started with 16 last -- 17 MS. NEMEC: I don't think that this is 18 correct. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- this fiscal year. 20 (Discussion off the record.) 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: Barbara Holmes has been 22 trying to get up here. 23 MS. HOLMES: This is something that just came 24 up at the last minute, and I believe that Judge Brown spoke 25 with Commissioner Griffin just a few minutes ago about it. 30 1 We have a video that we use in court. That video is used to 2 admonish the defendants when they come to court, with 3 instructions, and it's a couple-three years old. The County 4 Attorney's office is the one that had it prepared prior 5 to -- the very first one, and the admonishments have now 6 changed and we're going to have to redo that video. And, 7 since the first one came out of their budget, they've 8 requested that we see if we can find the funds to fund it 9 from our budget this year. Helena and I just did a rough 10 estimate. We're figuring maybe -- maybe $700, because we're 11 also going to try to do one in Spanish so far as for our 12 Spanish-speaking people. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are these required by law? 14 MS. HOLMES: The video itself? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 16 MS. HOLMES: It is not required by law to 17 have the video, but every person in court -- the Court is 18 required to inform them of these particular rights and 19 admonishments. David might have a little more input into it 20 as far as the legality of, you know, what has to be done. 21 So -- 22 MR. MOTLEY: The -- the accused persons 23 appearing in the County Court at Law and in all courts have 24 to be informed of various rights they have under the law, 25 have to be explained the procedure of what's going to 31 1 happen, and at arraignments have to be told of things such 2 as right to trial by jury, right to an attorney, that there 3 may be consequences of a certain type of convictions. And, 4 about three years ago, we thought it would be a tremendous 5 time-saving device for -- rather than us to tell everybody 6 individually, to have a videotape prepared and show it to 7 the group explaining their rights. And there have been some 8 new admonishments required by law, and the first one seemed 9 to go real well; we had it prepared over at the Tivy High 10 School media lab, and they did an excellent job. And, it's 11 time to update it, and -- and, as Barbara mentioned, we 12 think it's appropriate and probably required that we have a 13 version of it in the Spanish language. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Are the video admonishments 15 acknowledged by law as sufficient for purposes of giving the 16 rights -- do you have any case law or any Attorney General's 17 opinions which show that this, indeed, satisfies the legal 18 requirements? 19 MR. MOTLEY: I don't -- I don't know that I 20 do. Typically, the -- there are certain admonishments which 21 must still be given face-to-face by the Judge, such as right 22 to counsel has to be given by the Judge to each individual 23 defendant. The other admonishments we cover orally, and 24 then ask them to sign a written waiver that they waive these 25 rights. And, so, by explaining it to them in a group 32 1 presentation, it's -- it's a significant time-saver. So, 2 that's why we had done it. It's proved, I think, pretty 3 successful, in that -- 4 MS. HOLMES: The jail also has a copy of the 5 video, and they show it to the inmates prior to bringing 6 them into court. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Your Honor, what I see 8 this -- the advantage of it is, whether David has his legal 9 deal, it does give all the inmates coming into court a good 10 idea of what's going to go on and what's going to transpire 11 in court, 'cause that's always a big question, 'cause 12 99 percent of them don't have attorneys yet at this point. 13 The current video that is being used, I'm very, very 14 hesitant -- we've been using it at the jail to let them 15 know, on the ones coming over on Tuesdays, which you may 16 have -- just in custody, not the ones out on bond -- you may 17 have up to 30 inmates that have to see it. If they have to 18 go through it one-by-one, we're all day in court with them 19 inmates, when we need to get them back out there. So, I 20 agree with them on that aspect. 21 The problem I have with the current video -- 22 I know the admonishments have changed, but the current video 23 is also narrated by a person who is now a defense attorney, 24 and I have a problem showing that at the county jail, 'cause 25 I feel like we may be, in a roundabout way, you know, 33 1 introducing this defense attorney to these inmates. Whether 2 they use him or some other attorney, what we need -- it 3 needs to be a totally neutral video, and it definitely needs 4 to be done in both English and Spanish. I know that under 5 the new legislation -- I talked to Tommy's office a little 6 bit about this, and the J.P.'s and I talked. Now, when a 7 person gets magistrated in the morning, when a J.P. comes in 8 and reads him his rights, we have to follow the same 9 interpreter guidelines set out in 31.03, I believe, of the 10 Code of Criminal Procedure, which says the interpreter can 11 get compensated and paid for that interpretation of reading 12 them their rights, which -- their normal rights in setting 13 the bond, that hearing, that arraignment time. So, the 14 video I agree with, if it's done properly and if it stays 15 totally neutral. I think it does speed things up, getting 16 them through the -- the court system on that first -- 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The question is, is 18 the cost of -- the approximate cost of providing the video, 19 is that cost you're talking about? 20 MS. HOLMES: We'll get a professional 21 interpreter to do the interpreting for it, the language 22 interpreting. They'll charge so much per minute or so much 23 per word. 24 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Twenty-three cents, I 25 can tell you. I had to check. 34 1 MS. HOLMES: Someone quoted me 17 cents a 2 minute. We're sort of -- you know, like I said, it came up 3 at the last minute. We don't have a lot of figures together 4 yet. Then they'll charge so much for reading -- so much for 5 reading it. It will be $60 an hour for that. And, so -- 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The interpreter part 7 we're looking at. We're looking at changing all our stuff 8 for the guy in Mexico that we're after. The interpreter who 9 was accepted by the Mexican authority and has all the 10 credentials, has all the seals and everything and does it 11 for the District Courts here, quoted us a price of 23 cents 12 a Spanish word, so that it enlarges that a little bit. 13 MS. HOLMES: Thank you. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Eddie? 15 MR. HOLLAND: Good afternoon. I am newly 16 installed as president of the N.A.C.A., so we now have two 17 presidents from -- from Texas on a national level. But -- 18 (Laughter.) 19 MR. HOLLAND: Anyway, I come before you. 20 Last time we were talking about it, you said come before 21 you. We had something about salary, back on our 4-H and 22 Youth Coordinator salary. Last year, when we had the Nash 23 study, they came up with a nonexempt status, and we didn't 24 have any money in the budget. And, according to the law, we 25 had to -- because of these extra hours, Barbara can tell 35 1 you, the figures went pretty high pretty quick on some of 2 those figures, and we didn't have any money. They relooked 3 at it again; they changed that position of Laurinda's back 4 to exempt status, but she's still doing lots of extra hours. 5 Now that I'm going to be on the road, she's going to be even 6 doing more, you know, representing me at different 7 activities. She is looked upon statewide now as a -- as an 8 extra extension agent in our office, doing lots of things 9 outside of Kerr County, but representing Kerr County on 10 different things. So, she has a lot of responsibilities. 11 She's been with me and invaluable to me for over 10 years. 12 And because of this, you know, she's not eligible to receive 13 some additional money or whatever. So, I'd like -- her 14 position is a 17/6, and I'd like to ask for it to be moved 15 to a 19 position on that. Is that correct, Barbara? 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Any questions? 17 MR. HOLLAND: She has some letters and 18 different things. I'm sorry, I didn't bring it. I was 19 going to give you a copy. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: She brought one to us. 21 MR. HOLLAND: You have one? Okay. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we have a job 24 description for her? 25 MR. HOLLAND: Yes, we do. 36 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Do we? 2 MS. NEMEC: I have one in my office. I don't 3 know if Eddie has one with him. Would you like me to go get 4 it? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Anybody else? 7 Marc? 8 MR. ALLEN: On my kennel worker position, I 9 requested it to be moved from an 8/1 to a 12/1. Y'all 10 recommended it stay, I guess, at an 8/1, but when I turned 11 my proposal in to the City, that increase was also on that 12 proposal to the City, and as far as I know, the City has 13 okayed that proposal. I'd just like y'all to think about 14 that. That position, you know, is pretty important to us, 15 but that person is only bringing home $904 a month, and 16 after they pay their rent and their car payment, they can't 17 really even afford to eat, so I'd just like you to 18 reconsider that. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: You only hire thin people for 20 that position? 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Real thin. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you, Marc. Anyone 23 else? Tommy, maybe it's time for your -- Paula, did you 24 have -- 25 MS. RECTOR: I just have one little -- and it 37 1 doesn't have to do with salary -- one little revision. On 2 Bonds and Insurance, my insurance provider kind of dropped 3 the ball on this. I have an additional four-year bond that 4 bonds me to the County Judge, and we are going to break that 5 down over four years, but I will need to increase that line 6 item by $322. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Bonds? 8 MS. RECTOR: That will make it $572. Bonds 9 and Insurance, 206. 10 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's it go to? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Five -- 12 MS. RECTOR: It goes to $572. This is 13 actually a four-year bond, but we're going to break it into 14 four years and pay it on a yearly basis. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, thanks. Quick, Tommy, 16 before anybody else comes up. 17 MR. TOMLINSON: I have a list of -- of 18 changes that need -- that may or may not need to be made. I 19 just wanted to bring it to your attention before -- before 20 we adjourn today. Number one is that in the Maintenance 21 budget, we -- last year, at the very beginning of the year, 22 we moved a maintenance person to the jail maintenance 23 budget, and that -- that position was left in the 24 Maintenance budget in the budget you have in front of you, 25 so that -- that needs to be taken out, and that's a total of 38 1 $21,960. 2 Also, I know you all remember discussions 3 about contracts with -- with nonprofit people -- 4 organizations in the county. There were three of those that 5 were moved from -- from nondepartment -- from the one budget 6 to another. One of those was $3,000 for CASA, and it -- 7 it's still in the budget. That needs to be removed. That's 8 another -- that's $3,000. And I have -- I have a note 9 from -- from the District Clerk. I don't -- she didn't 10 bring this up when she was up here, but in the original 11 budget, she had allowed for merit increases for two people, 12 and in calculating the change for the COLA and the salary 13 structure, those -- those two merit increases were not 14 included, and the total of that is approximately $2,250. 15 That's a plus. Also, in -- in redoing the salaries, as the 16 Judge commented, we rolled the travel into salaries. The Ag 17 Extension people are allowed $5,000 each for -- for travel. 18 That was taken out, but it wasn't added into the salaries, 19 so -- so that's $10,000 plus. 20 And, in reviewing the budget, I notice 21 that -- and I think we may have talked about this relative 22 to -- to the Nondepartmental Contingency line item, but I -- 23 in the past, we have -- we have allowed some contingency 24 moneys for replacement of -- of data processing equipment. 25 And we have -- we have six computers in the -- in the system 39 1 that were purchased in October of '96, so they're -- they're 2 five years old, and I know that I have two of them, the 3 District Clerk has three, and the County Clerk has one. 4 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Tommy, I probably have 5 ten. 6 MR. TOMLINSON: So -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're always out there. 8 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: That was that old part 9 with that inmate telephone system back when they went to it, 10 so I know I have that many, and they're dropping like flies. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: Also, they're -- I visited 12 with Shaun about this. That -- since the Tax Office has 13 started to image documents, we -- of course, when we 14 purchased the mainframe two years ago, we didn't anticipate 15 imaging courthouse-wide, so we -- we are continually eating 16 up hard drive space on our system. We are now at -- at 17 83 percent used up. And imaging takes tremendous bites of 18 space on a hard drive, and his recommendation is to enlarge 19 our hard drive, and that's -- the cost of that -- of his 20 estimate is $4,000, that we will especially need that if we 21 grant -- if the Court grants any other imaging equipment for 22 anyone. Also, there -- the Sheriff's Office has a file 23 of -- of mug shots that were taken five years ago that are 24 in the old system that the Sheriff's Office used. Those mug 25 shots need to be moved and -- and put on our system. I 40 1 mean, that will take a huge bite out of the hard drive. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What kind of capacity 3 increase does that $4,000 give us? 4 MR. TOMLINSON: I think it's 32 gig. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Thirty-two gig? 6 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah. 7 MS. RECTOR: And, Tommy, we're getting ready 8 to do our yearly load for 2001 taxes, and that's going to 9 eat up whatever's left, and we had that problem once before 10 where we ran out of space and had to take a -- one of our 11 packages completely off the system in order to do our load. 12 MR. TOMLINSON: I don't -- also, there is -- 13 and we don't -- I don't know this, but Software Group often 14 upgrades their software, I mean, for one -- one package or 15 the other, and there's always some training associated 16 with -- with that process. I don't know that that's going 17 to happen, but I think -- I think it would be safe to have 18 some funds in Contingency for that purpose. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, we -- I think what you're 20 suggesting is a Nondepartmental -- we probably need to add 21 $4,000 for the additional hard drive capacity? 22 MR. TOMLINSON: For sure, that. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: And up the Contingency from 24 30 to 50? To 40? To where? 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, I have a total of -- of 41 1 $15,000 here, so that -- that I think might be safe. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Into that, not 3 counting the four. 4 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. That's -- that's six 5 computers plus any software upgrade for five. So, that 6 would be $45,000. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. All right. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Also, there's -- there's 9 potentially -- we can have -- we will have a -- a bond 10 election in February, and there will be some cost associated 11 with -- with that election, because there is not an election 12 to be held on that date, so it will be a special election 13 for that purpose if -- if we do that. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Do you have a number we ought 15 plug in for that? Did you have a chance to talk to Jannett? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: No, I didn't, but I -- but 17 she has -- I think she has $11,000 budgeted for elections, 18 so she's counting on one. So, my guess -- my guess is that 19 it might be twice that. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. And, would you mention 21 to the Court what you told me earlier about the insurance 22 costs, just so everyone's up on the same page? 23 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. Part of the -- of the 24 change from -- from the budget that we submitted prior to 25 the change in salaries, the Treasurer and I have -- and the 42 1 County Judge had some conversation with -- with our health 2 insurance carrier. As a result of that, we -- we increased 3 the health insurance cost per individual by $400 per year, 4 so we increased the annual cost of health insurance for one 5 person to $4,555, and that is included in -- in the budget 6 that you have. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Would that explain, 8 Tommy, why -- and I went through all of these in terms of 9 group insurance, why the increases in various departments 10 range -- they're all over the lot. One is as low as 11 7 percent and one as high as 230 percent. Many of them are 12 in the 30, 50, 70 percent range. Would that explain that? 13 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. Yes, it will. Part of 14 that, too, is -- and I want you to remember that -- that 15 also included in this -- in this budget is the $30,000 to 16 U.G.R.A. for -- for that contract. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Where is that? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: It's in -- 19 MS. SOVIL: Health. 20 MR. TOMLINSON: Under Health, yes. It's 630, 21 I believe it is, Department 630. So, that's a large bite 22 of -- of the change from one budget to the next. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question on 24 this document you provided us, Tommy. On Page 2 -- 25 MR. TOMLINSON: Okay. 43 1 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: -- some titles have 2 been changed in General Fund expenditures after salary 3 changes, all the way to the bottom. You have a total, and 4 then right after the total line, you have fund balance after 5 change, and then had a total change of $289,140. Would you 6 explain that? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: What I was attempting to do 8 is -- is show you how to -- how we would get back to the 9 fund balance that we showed before the change. The -- the 10 budget that we produced before this one showed a fund 11 balance of -- of approximately 4 million, 6 for General Fund 12 M & O, and after the change it showed -- would be 4 million, 13 2 -- approximately 4 million, 3. So, I did this to show you 14 where -- where that difference was. 15 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Thank you. Also -- 16 and I -- 17 MR. TOMLINSON: Also, in reply to the 18 Sheriff's concern about -- about the match for potential 19 grants, I think -- I think if the Court votes to -- to issue 20 a debt for the purchase of this system, that it's 100 21 percent match. So, I mean, I think we've exhibited good 22 faith in paying for -- for the system outright, and if 23 there's -- if -- if there's potentially a grant down the 24 line, then we can show that we've already paid for that 25 system. 44 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Any questions? 2 Additional comments? Judge Wright? 3 MR. WRIGHT: I'm Dawn Wright. I'm the J.P. 4 in Precinct 2, and first I'd like to thank all of you for 5 all of your hard work and what you're doing for all of us. 6 And, I would like to address your attention to a request 7 that we made on an increase for the probable cause hearings 8 that we hold at the State Hospital. We haven't heard 9 anything back from that. We held -- or hold anywhere from 3 10 to 15 hearings twice a week out there; David's there with 11 us. And, we have asked for an increase in that. This 12 hasn't been changed since 1992, when we first took these 13 over. We would appreciate your addressing that. Thank you. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Thank you. Bill, you had a 15 question? 16 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One question. Is 17 Mr. Holekamp here? 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: Glenn? 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Just -- it's okay. 20 It's really not bad. You may or may not be aware that last 21 night at the City Council meeting, they released a list of 22 funding of the hotel/motel tax, and it appeared that the 23 Hill Country Youth Exhibit Center will be awarded $11,291. 24 I think the Court probably would like to be reminded as to 25 what that's for, and how will that be handled in the budget? 45 1 MR. HOLEKAMP: It is to be -- it's designated 2 to remodel the kitchen in the concession area to make it 3 considerably easier for caterers or other users to -- to 4 do -- do better meal presentations and packages. It's 5 stainless steel equipment and some fryers. It's a basic -- 6 and since that is not the exact amount that was -- it's a 7 percentage of the request, we'll probably review that and 8 see exactly what we can purchase with that money. And, 9 normally, the -- in the past, the way it's been done is 10 we -- we purchase the equipment, and then it -- it is 11 reimbursed by the City. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, good. Excellent. 14 Anyone else have anything they want to bring up at this 15 time? 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I do. Is it time for 17 us -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I was going to suggest we 19 take a break and come back in about 10 minutes. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I wanted to take a 21 break, is my request. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's take a break and come 23 back at quarter to 3:00. 24 (Recess taken from 2:35 p.m. to 2:45 p.m.) 25 - - - - - - - - - - 46 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. Let's go back on the 2 record and resume this hearing. During the break, I did a 3 very quick and very dirty summation of what was presented, 4 and my figures say that if we were to give -- grant all the 5 additional requests that were presented today, without 6 trying to factor in COLA's and benefits, we add about 7 $240,270. The -- the credits we got, being CASA, the 8 maintenance person, and the lease, our radio tower lease, 9 come up to $149,972, so if we were to do everything that was 10 addressed today, we would add to the bottom line $90,298 11 plus. So, somewhere around $100,000 more. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What were the big 13 drivers in the plus side? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, the four patrol 15 deputies for the Sheriff, $99,000. And that's without the 16 equipment, and that's just the cost -- that's personnel 17 costs. And, again, that's not benefits or anything else. 18 Two scanners for the Sheriff, $32,000. Investigator, 19 $27,320. Road and Bridge increase, which is something we 20 need to do, was $26,000 approximately. Nondepartmental 21 Contingency went up $15,000. Bond Election went up $11,000. 22 Ag Agent's travel went up $10,000. I mean, those are the 23 bigger ones. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Uh-huh. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: And then the salary 47 1 adjustments that were requested by the department heads. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Four deputies. You're 3 talking about four cars, you're talking about four hats and 4 four -- not four cars? 5 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: No. What we had talked 6 about during the original deal, Commissioner, was in the six 7 new cars we're getting this year, okay, we were -- this is 8 the third year, and we had originally planned to get rid of 9 six of our oldest ones. And, in rearranging those, it will 10 still put me with cars on the road with up to 150,000 miles 11 on them, which I don't like doing, okay, but we can try and 12 do something -- some finagling around to get those in 13 positions that don't have to be run constantly, all the 14 time. And this year, I would not say four new cars for 15 those people. It may be something that would make it a lot 16 easier if, instead of six a year, we went to seven, but I'm 17 not even going to -- you know, beggars can't be choosers in 18 this deal, and I'm just really trying to improve the 19 manpower at this point. And we can find a way to work it, 20 even if we ended up having to share a car for this first 21 year to get through that; when one's off, the other one's 22 running. But, the only problem with that is it really runs 23 a car into the ground in a hurry. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Are we going to go around 48 1 and each make -- I've got some comments that we have -- we 2 talked about, and Commissioner Baldwin said earlier he did. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's fine. I'm -- you 4 know, at this point, I think we are -- if we were to assume 5 we're going to do everything that was asked, we're right at 6 600 and -- no, $525,000 short. Okay. 7 MS. UECKER: Now, when you assume you're 8 going to do everything you were asked, I know the Sheriff 9 asked for his two scanners back again today, but do I have 10 to repeat my request? Or does my old request still stand? 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: If it didn't happen -- if I 12 didn't hear it, it didn't happen. 13 MS. UECKER: Well, it happened in my budget 14 request, so -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. Well, let's just 16 add that -- just add $16,000 to the total. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess -- it seems that 18 we're getting more and more scanners that everyone wants 19 these days. I mean, does each department have to have a 20 scanner? 21 MS. UECKER: Yes. 22 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can't we have one or two 23 scanners in one area and share them? Does that just not 24 work? Everyone wants their own scanner, I can see. 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The problem we have with 49 1 it, Commissioner, is -- and Judge Henneke can attest to 2 it -- in the jail portion alone, I currently have the -- 3 between 90 and 100 file cabinets that are full of records 4 that need to be put into this system and never have. We've 5 never had records clerks, scanning equipment. You know, 6 we've never, ever, in all these years, had anything to take 7 care of this jail stuff on records. In the Sheriff's Office 8 portion of it, which is whole different deal, every case 9 file, everything we ever had before we went to the software, 10 is all in another full room, which the Judge also got a tour 11 of, and you're talking about -- if you try to put that one 12 in file cabinets, probably even more than 100 file cabinets. 13 There has never been a good records management system in 14 that department, and we've got to get it done, and the way 15 to do it -- the scanners aren't just your -- your everyday, 16 run-of-the-mill scanners you can buy for a P.C. They scan 17 into this County system, and that -- and it's a document 18 imaging deal that goes into the system, where anytime we 19 need to pull up something on somebody, everything is there. 20 And, the only way I can appropriately -- 21 MS. UECKER: You can't put those on disk 22 rather than into the system? 23 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: They won't work that way 24 with us, because then you've got them in so many -- so many 25 different deals. And, with the County system, if I've got a 50 1 guy on patrol in the squadroom who needs to go do his 2 reports, he needs to have all that information; 'cause 3 that's all -- that person's history goes with everything, 4 and it's a totally different -- 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I guess this -- if I -- 6 my concern is that we are -- we've gotten by without 7 scanners. I know we need to update the technology with 8 what's current, but as we just found out from Tommy, the 9 more we do all this stuff, our computer just gets -- craters 10 every year, and we're going to have to upgrade it and 11 upgrade it. I really think we need to get, boy, almost a 12 county-wide plan; maybe use Shaun to really look at this and 13 see -- I mean, we're getting ready, if we do the scanning 14 requests alone, over $100,000 this year, with the 15 ramifications of that. And that just seems like we need to 16 really make sure we know what we're doing, rather than 17 buying all these scanners for all these departments. To my 18 mind, I just -- you know, it's -- seems a lot. I realize we 19 need to keep the records up, but we're in a very tight 20 budget year. I question that we have to do that this year. 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: My problem is -- only 22 thing I really have a problem with that is, this year so 23 far, okay, since January -- and if Glenn was here, he had to 24 go and help us get them -- we've had to add over 30 file 25 cabinets in the jail alone, and they're full now. I just -- 51 1 I mean, we're at the point that we have a serious problem, 2 because that portion, the Sheriff's Department and jail, 3 never has had anything, and it's at the point that it is 4 crucial and it is very serious. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I know, but I -- someone 6 has to prioritize. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: A long-range plan on 8 where we're going to go with information systems is an 9 absolute necessity in this day and age, and it's one of the 10 things we need to do, is to get into more of a strategic 11 posture rather than a tactical, where we run from brush fire 12 to brush fire to try to solve it. There's no question about 13 that, and that's something -- we can't do that today. 14 That's our problem. We've got to look at budget numbers 15 that we got to deal with today, of course, but I totally 16 agree that we have to have a long-range plan for information 17 systems, and that's one of the reasons we needed to bring 18 somebody like Shaun to work. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My comment is, how it 20 does impact us today is that, you know, I sure would hate to 21 have us throw a bunch of money at that problem, and then 22 decide next year we're not taking the right direction. And 23 I don't see that -- you know, that we've taken any 24 county-wide look at that records information management and 25 the direction we're going with scanning right now. That's 52 1 my concern. 2 MS. UECKER: Maybe -- maybe several of us 3 need to go look at another Software Group county, and not 4 just on -- on the uses of it and the data and the 5 technology, but also as to the cost of it as a whole. You 6 know, I don't have a problem with that. 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Might be a good idea 8 to take a look at a larger county, because that's what we're 9 going to be. 10 MS. UECKER: Mm-hmm. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Ten years down the 12 road, we're going to be a larger county. Rather than just 13 trying to meet today's needs, we need to look -- project 14 where we're going to be so we can build a strategic -- 15 MS. UECKER: I do know, Commissioner Griffin, 16 that Williamson County is using the total Software Group 17 scanning -- the imaging system. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They are? 19 MS. UECKER: And, you know, I don't know how 20 it's affected their budget, but I do know for a fact that 21 they -- they are doing it. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm sure Software 23 Group would help us identify what those -- or more of those 24 counties that -- they'd love to sell us more. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And the only reason I'm 53 1 saying this is that, based on the numbers the Judge said, we 2 don't have enough money. So, you know, we're going -- and 3 I'm -- I'm not in favor of a tax increase; I'm not in favor 4 of taking our fund balances. That means we got to cut 5 somewhere. I mean, it's that simple. To me, that's an 6 area -- and I hate to -- you know, the -- I think the Court 7 and the Sheriff's Department are very committed to going 8 with the radio system upgrade. We haven't talked about that 9 a lot today, but that's a huge part of the budget, and, you 10 know, to me, that's important. The deputies are important 11 from a health and safety standpoint. Those two things are 12 very closely related, but we may have to choose between one 13 or the other. This year, I just don't see that we can do 14 everything. 15 MS. UECKER: At this point I'll withdraw my 16 request for scanners. I can proceed the way I'm doing until 17 we can do some type of a study, and -- just so, you know, 18 maybe we can address this as maybe a priority for my office 19 next year. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: And it may be one thing that 21 would be worthwhile, would be to go out and contract a -- a 22 significant amount of dollars for a one-time shot to come in 23 and do backup. We may be talking $70,000, $80,000, but that 24 might be something -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: When I was checking into 54 1 the scanners, Judge, and checking into that, there are 2 companies that come in and contract. With the records the 3 Sheriff's Department has alone, they told us that would run 4 close to a million dollars. That's why I went with the 5 scanners and personnel that we do ourselves. We got to -- 6 you know, the problem is, we've got records back there that 7 we can not get rid of, okay? Old case files, old unsolved 8 cases, and some of those date back in the 1960's. They've 9 been shuffled from building to building, boxes to boxes. 10 We've reboxed them since I took office, and we're -- you 11 know, it's just a disaster. The only way to really organize 12 this and do it right is put it in the County's overall 13 system, which is Software Group, and then put -- that type 14 of scanner does put it in there in the appropriate place so 15 you don't lose those records, and you have a permanent deal. 16 I don't -- I checked. I don't know what else to do, 17 Jonathan. 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I agree we have a 19 problem. I think that same -- well, what you just said, 20 Linda can say the same thing, Paula can say the same thing, 21 Jannett can say the same thing. I'm sure Barbara can and 22 Commissioners Court can. We all keep records, and it's a 23 huge problem. I just think we need to come up with a plan, 24 and it's just a bad year to -- 25 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The only difference is, 55 1 the other courts are -- I'm not saying anything about Linda 2 or them. They all went -- Linda went to microfilming. 3 They're all doing microfilm. Jannett already has scanners. 4 MS. UECKER: Well, the Sheriff could have, 5 too, and didn't. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The Sheriff doesn't have 7 anything on this part. 8 MS. UECKER: It's not that he wasn't offered 9 anything. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's -- 11 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I don't know. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: Let's start with Commissioner 13 Baldwin, and then -- you had some suggestions, some notions 14 to throw on the table? 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I just had simple 16 questions, actually, just going through here. One is on the 17 County-sponsored activity on Page 58. I notice that Crisis 18 Council is there. Tommy said remove CASA. Did you say 19 that? Remove CASA? 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They were moved. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: They were moved to a 22 different budget. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: They're in a different 24 budget, so they -- they were in there twice. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: To the Juvenile Probation. 56 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Juvenile, that's 2 right, yeah. And -- but why is, like, Family Literacy taken 3 out? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: That also was -- 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And K'Star? 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: Family Literacy, K'Star, and 7 CASA were moved to the Juvenile Probation Department because 8 they provide services to directly to the Juvenile Court. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Very good. Very good, 10 thank you. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And that was just one 12 that didn't get picked up when it was moved over -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 14 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: -- to the other sheet. 15 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And then the Special 16 Projects, Road and Bridge Special Projects, Page 69. 17 Everything is zeroed out. Is that the way it's supposed to 18 be? 19 MR. TOMLINSON: Look at number -- 20 MR. ODOM: 611. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: -- 611, under 115, talking 22 about Road and Bridge Operating Fund. It's -- it was 23 consolidated into that fund. 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: All the Road and Bridge funds 57 1 were consolidated. 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. I remember 3 having the conversation, but I couldn't remember what we 4 did, where it went. Franklin, you got all your -- y'all got 5 all your questions answered about the 5 percent and all 6 that? 7 MR. JOHNSTON: Yes. 8 MR. ODOM: I believe so. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I know what it was; 10 hold on. Back on County-sponsored activity, Historical 11 Commission goes from $2,500 to $12,500. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's an additional -- 13 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is Page 58. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's -- that's an 15 additional $10,000 to be used for the Union Church. I think 16 that's in play right now. I'd like to get them something -- 17 again, that's a County-owned facility, and if the outside 18 renovation is not completed by November 1st, then the 19 County, through the Historical Commission, is going to have 20 to move that building again, and it probably will not 21 survive. 22 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just an idea. If that 23 is a County-owned building, why couldn't we do the same 24 thing we're doing with this expansion, this renovation down 25 here, or my offering the -- the County work program? 58 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: You have offered. You're 2 just not aware of it. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I'm not what? 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: You're just not aware of it. 5 You have offered. 6 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Okay. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think there's both trustees 8 and -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: You're welcome, Judge. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- and supervised workers 11 involved in that project. 12 MS. UECKER: How can that be a historical 13 building when it was completely torn down and moved, and 14 then torn down and re -- 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: It was never completely torn 16 down. 17 (Discussion off the record.) 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Judge, did I understand 19 you to say that $10,000 -- we need to leave it in or take it 20 out? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's in play, as far as I'm 22 concerned, because of the state of the budget. We have to 23 understand that if they don't get the work done by 24 November 1st -- and they're looking to this money to get a 25 lot of it done, because it's part of a matching fund grant 59 1 that they have -- then the Historical Commission is going to 2 be required by Schreiner University to move that building 3 again. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the original 5 agreement with the historical folks was that they were going 6 to raise these funds out of -- in their -- on their own. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's correct. 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: To come in and do 9 this, and they've been in a couple of times; we just keep 10 pumping more money in. I'm in favor of moving the building, 11 moving it to one of our properties out there, and get 12 Rusty's folks -- 13 MS. UECKER: Maybe we can store records in 14 it. 15 (Laughter.) 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, we could double 17 the size and put our scanners in it. But -- you know, I'm 18 not -- I'm not throwing a fuss at it. It's just we're 19 going -- they said that they were going to raise their money 20 out of -- out of the community, and I haven't seen a 21 fundraiser yet, except for the calendars, which I -- I 22 participated in. I bought one. Actually, bought two. And 23 -- and this is the second or third time since we made that 24 agreement that they've come in here and we've given them 25 money. 60 1 JUDGE HENNEKE: Commissioner, this is the 2 first money we've given them specifically for the Union 3 Church. 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, I -- 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Since I've been on the Court. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Since you've been on 7 the Court, that is true. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Since the building was moved, 9 this is the first money -- 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Since you've been on 11 the Court, this is true. This is about the third time that 12 this has happened. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: That may be. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: It is. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Since it was moved and since 16 I've been here, this is the first time any money's been 17 allocated for that building. 18 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I'm not 19 saying anything -- anything different than that, but I'm 20 just saying that they are not living up to their side of the 21 agreement, bottom line. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, they are 23 working at fundraising. It's not been easy, but they are 24 working at it. They truly are. What they're trying to do 25 right now is to impress upon all the churches who sprung 61 1 from the Union Church the need for them to participate, and 2 they are actively trying. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'm in favor of taking 4 $10,000 out, and if it gets to the point that the thing has 5 to be moved or the County has to do something, look at it at 6 that point. But I just -- you know, I'm not in favor of it. 7 I wasn't over -- real enthusiastic when we voted to do what 8 we've -- where we got us into the mess that we're in right 9 now with that facility, but we're there. And, if we start 10 having to fund it, I want to take a real hard look at the 11 whole agreement and what the County's responsibility is 12 going to be. And I think that, you know, if we're going to 13 start putting taxpayers' money into renovating that project, 14 I think I have to have a heart-to-heart with the Historical 15 Commission, the way we're going. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. I'm -- as far as I'm 17 concerned -- I'll just say it right out -- everything in 18 this budget is in play. 19 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Everything in the 20 budget is what? 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: In play. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: On the table. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I understand. What 24 about the U.G.R.A. contract? 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, everything. Anything 62 1 else? 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Speaking of the 3 U.G.R.A. contract, I guess that -- I guess that $30,000 4 needs to be in there, just in case we cut a deal, huh? 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. And it looks like we 6 have a deal. I mean, if we're willing to do that. U.G.R.A. 7 has indicated that this will work for them. Anything else? 8 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: No, that's all. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Bill? 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a couple. I'd 11 like an explanation of the need, under -- on Page 11, under 12 County Court at Law, the need for another court reporter, 13 which, when you add the salary and all the various benefits, 14 takes us right around $55,000. What is the need for that? 15 There has not been one, apparently, designated, and I -- now 16 we've got another one. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: This -- the money for the 18 court reporter in the County Court at Law has previously 19 been in the Jury Fund. That's bad accounting. So, this is 20 simply a transfer of funds from the Jury Fund to the County 21 Court at Law budget. It's not additional money. 22 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay. On Page 8, 23 under Nondepartmental -- I think I know the answer, but I'm 24 going to ask the question anyhow -- Tommy, workmen's 25 compensation under -- under Nondepartmental, that's a number 63 1 for workmen's compensation for the -- all departments; is 2 that correct? 3 MR. TOMLINSON: Except Road and Bridge. 4 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I notice it goes up 5 significantly, and what is the justification for it to take 6 a rise from $48,000 to $79,000? 7 MR. TOMLINSON: Well -- 8 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Has our experience 9 been that bad? 10 MR. TOMLINSON: No. We were told by our 11 underwriter to expect a 40 percent increase in worker's 12 comp. 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Maybe we need to find 14 a new underwriter. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: We went through the exercise 16 about a year and a half ago where we got Mr. Gray from 17 Fredericksburg and he sent out solicitations, and this was 18 by far the best package we got, which was through TAC. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I can 20 understand if our experience is that bad, we might be 21 eligible for a 40 percent increase, but if our experience is 22 not that bad, that's a different ball game. 23 MR. TOMLINSON: The information I get is that 24 in the private sector, that it's worse. 25 MS. NEMEC: We do about three claims a week. 64 1 We do about three claims a week, worker's comp claims a 2 week, and that's -- that's pretty high compared to what it's 3 been in years past. And we have one employee that is out; 4 looks like he's not going to be able to come back, so that's 5 a serious claim there. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Probably, when we 7 looked at it, the $48,000 probably was a pretty good deal, 8 but that doesn't mean that the 79 today is a good deal. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's not a good deal. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I intend to bring -- 11 invite some folks down, make a presentation to us soon to 12 show us how we can lower that. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we already participate 14 in the safety program, which got us a $12,000 deduction in 15 our workmen's comp premium for this current fiscal year, and 16 we will continue to participate in that program. 17 MS. NEMEC: That amount looks high, but we 18 don't see the revenue that we get from it at the end. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: One additional 20 question, either to Tommy or to Paula Rector. On Page 34, 21 the amount of office supplies that was requested was $5,100, 22 but recommended is $23,900. 23 MS. RECTOR: They combined my Computer Supply 24 line item with my Office Supply. 25 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Okay, thank you. 65 1 That's all I have, Judge. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Jonathan? 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I have a few. First is 4 on Page 44, Constable Precinct 4. And, it appears that we 5 have equalized the constable's salary. I know we discussed 6 this; I just can't remember what we decided. I don't 7 remember this being what we decided. We've equalized the 8 salary to the same as other constables and left the deputy 9 salary here, as well, and I don't recall us doing that. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, what this is -- if you 11 add the deputy salary and the constable's salary, it's the 12 same as the other constables' salary. 13 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Mm-hmm. The other 14 constables aren't $34,000, are they? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: This is not 34. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Thirty-five, almost 35. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Under recommended, it 18 is. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Oh, are you looking at the 20 old budget? 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: It's the one we just got 22 dated yesterday. 23 MR. GARZA: May I say something? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: The one that's run -- it 25 should be $26,373 for the constable, and $2,400 for the 66 1 deputy, because that was the arrangement that Constable -- 2 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- Terrill made. 4 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Those aren't required -- 5 MS. NEMEC: Can I have that number? 6 Twenty-six -- 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: $26,373 for the deputy -- for 8 official salary, and $2,400 for the deputy's salary. 9 MS. NEMEC: $2,400. How about deputy travel? 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: No deputy travel. 11 MS. NEMEC: No deputy travel. 12 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I don't see those 13 numbers on any of my pages. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I've got a more recent 15 book than you guys do. 16 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's the way it is 17 with County Judges. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: No, that's the way it is with 19 the budget officer. 20 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I see. I've seen that 21 before. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: And I don't get paid any 23 extra for being the budget officer, either. 24 (Laughter.) 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. 67 1 (Discussion off the record.) 2 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: How much was the 3 deputy's salary out in -- 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: $2,400. 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: $2,400. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's by agreement between 7 Constable -- well, Larry, it's your precinct. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's what the 10 constable asked for? 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That's what Constable 12 Terrill asked for, and was -- what he put in his letter. 13 MR. GARZA: May I make a comment on that? Or 14 am I allowed? Okay. Just -- my comment is, all the other 15 three constables, the budget to run our office is $35,410. 16 That's what mine is; all ours are about the same. Precinct 17 4 is, like, $41,000 or $42,000 to run his department. 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's less than that now, 19 constable. 20 MR. GARZA: Okay. But that's just a point I 21 just wanted to make, Your Honor. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: As a matter of fact, the 23 difference between the -- your budget and the budget in 24 Precinct 4 is less than $200. 25 MR. GARZA: Now, I guess. But at the -- on 68 1 the last official, you know -- okay. I just want -- thank 2 you. 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Next, on Page 105, under 4 Parks, I had assured the Court that the bathrooms would be 5 in place at Flat Rock prior to the end of the budget year. 6 We still have a month to go; we may have them in place. But 7 I think that $27,000, at this point, should be carried over. 8 That's an L.C.R.A. grant; doesn't have any bottom line 9 impact. Just to make sure -- I mean, we're proceeding, 10 we're working with the City and plumbing to get everything 11 hooked up, but just in case, not have to come back and 12 explain the -- 13 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Let me make a comment 14 on that same line, because the printout I have shows no 15 expenditures for Lions Park, when in fact there are 16 expenditures and another invoice is coming in. Those tables 17 and pads have been installed already, so we've used up most 18 of what was budgeted this year. 19 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And I guess, while we're 20 on that page, under Flat Rock, we have no operating expenses 21 for this year, or nothing for this year. Glenn, is that 22 realistic? We're not going to -- I mean, it will come out 23 of the Parks Maintenance budget, everything we do over 24 there? 25 MR. HOLEKAMP: Yes, sir. 69 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Okay. Next, on Page 130, 2 the Schreiner Road Trust. And I just can't remember how we 3 decided. Larry brought up, I believe, a couple meetings ago 4 about trying to get that money used more readily, and the 5 recommendation was that we leave it the way it is right now 6 and the transfer is done during the year if -- if money is 7 to come out of there. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What I had suggested 9 and what we had discussed was to take the undistributed 10 funds, which is about $25,000, I think -- I've got the 11 letter here; I'll look that up to be precise. But, here's 12 what my suggestion was, 'cause it helps our budget shortfall 13 overall. If we shifted the undistributed funds, about the 14 $25,000, to the Road Fund, that would mean -- or to the Road 15 Fund, we could use the addition -- those additional funds, 16 then, to -- to increase the reserve for Road and Bridge 17 Department. Tommy's programed $140,000; however, you know, 18 we've shifted those funds into a position where they could 19 be used next year in Precincts 1 and 4, as the trust calls 20 for, and then it just would help to -- and that's purely a 21 maneuver to help the bottom line. That was what I was -- 22 I'm not sure we can do that, even, but I think we can. I 23 think, from the tone of the letter -- or the facts in the 24 letter that we got from Security Trust Bank on it, is that 25 we can move those undistributed funds. Don't touch the -- 70 1 would not touch the corpus of the trust; it stays just like 2 it is, but we just take those undistributed funds, and 3 they're saying -- the bank's saying, "What do you want to do 4 with them?" I'm saying let's get them where we can get it 5 to the bottom line, take that $25,000 to the bottom line, 6 and I think there must be some way we can do that. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think what you would have 8 to do would be to find a special project in Precinct 4 and a 9 special project in Precinct 1 and allocate funds for those 10 projects. I don't think you can just -- I don't think the 11 trustee would agree just to have the $25,000 put into the 12 budget for use in Precincts 1 and 4. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We have to actually go 14 ahead and identify the projects. Can we do that, Len? 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I think we're going to have 16 to identify projects, but I'm sure got you've got special 17 projects in both precincts that you could simply allocate a 18 portion of the -- of the trust. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Or do it all in one. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Or do it all in one. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We can do it all in 22 one. 23 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Or just wait for the 24 project to come along, and then draw -- draw on it at that 25 point. 71 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sheppard Rees. We 2 spend project money in Sheppard Rees this year? 3 MR. ODOM: Well, we're spending that now. We 4 got $29,000; we're clearing the right-of-way to finish the 5 engineering. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I'm talking about next 7 year. 8 MR. ODOM: Next year I have $100,000 in 9 there, so it could be added. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, $25,000 of that 11 could be this money. 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That is true, that 13 could be. And I would certainly go along with that. If -- 14 MR. ODOM: That's fine. 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Just -- 16 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Now, we got to work 17 out the intricacies of the trust and all of that, make sure 18 we're doing what the trust says. I'm just saying it seems 19 like, to me, we ought to try to get that money to the bottom 20 line, to help the bottom line of the budget. 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Well, the trust talks 22 about specific things like right-of-way acquisition. 23 MR. ODOM: Well, at least -- 24 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: And I -- you know, I 25 just don't know if it fits in with your projects. 72 1 MR. ODOM: Fits in with the High Water 2 Bridge. We still haven't got a figure from the State, but 3 that's probably going to run somewhere in the neighborhood 4 of around $20,000, $25,000 for the -- that property on our 5 side. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: For right-of-way 7 acquisition? 8 MR. ODOM: For right-of-way acquisition 9 there. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I will remind y'all 11 that we may not know that for a while, and we need to make a 12 commitment, like, today or tomorrow on what we're going to 13 do with the money, and that's -- so -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Essentially, you two 15 precincts -- if you're willing to say let's take the -- the 16 income and put it towards the Sheppard Rees project in the 17 precincts, then I think that we can make the appropriate 18 changes in the budget to that effect. Now, the question for 19 the Court is, do we want to take that $25,000 addition and 20 apply it towards the other projects, or do we want to apply 21 it towards the Road and Bridge deficit, which will then move 22 $25,000 -- do we want to increase the Road and Bridge 23 reserve by that $25,000, or do we want to use that $25,000 24 to make the increase we're talking about now and take that 25 $25,000 essentially up into the O & M? 73 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's the 2 reason we pay the chief budget officer the big bucks. He's 3 going to have to figure that out to get it on the bottom 4 line. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Lose the 140 that we're 6 going to transfer to 115. 7 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: That would be my 8 preference. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Which would give us, then, an 10 additional $25,000 in the -- 11 MR. ODOM: If you transferred that into this 12 year's budget and I didn't spend it, then everything that's 13 left would go back to reserves October 1st. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, I think it's too late 15 for to us do it this year. 16 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We'll do it next year. 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: Tommy? 18 MR. TOMLINSON: I'd like to see us use the -- 19 budget $25,000 in Schreiner Road Trust fund for expenditure. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: And take the -- that same 22 amount out of Road and Bridge operating budget. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: That would work. 25 MR. TOMLINSON: And pay -- pay for whatever 74 1 project you want to directly out of the Schreiner Road Trust 2 fund. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Hear, hear. 5 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Sounds good. 6 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Hear, hear. 7 COMMISSIONER LETZ: And my last comment, 8 Judge, is -- it's more of a general comment. When we do the 9 final budget book, can we get the juvenile -- the Hill 10 Country -- Recor; whatever Recor is. 11 JUDGE HENNEKE: Detention facility. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: A copy of that budget 13 attached to it, just so that it's in one book and the 14 public's aware of that budget as well? Is that possible, 15 Tommy? 16 MR. TOMLINSON: It always is. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I was just going through 18 here and saw Recor, and I just jumped on it. 19 MR. TOMLINSON: The budget that we'll file 20 has that. 21 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Has that included? All 22 right. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Larry? 24 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I have two questions 25 regarding sort of the overall budget and how we might 75 1 address the bottom line in addition. Rusty, do we have, at 2 this point, a -- any kind of confidence in a range of first 3 year costs of the radio project? Do we -- and it could be 4 from "X" number of dollars to "X" number. What -- in this 5 next budget year, what -- how much money are we going to 6 spend, roughly? 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Zero. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, there's -- 9 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: It's going to be covered 10 in those obligation -- however y'all do the financing. The 11 first year costs, okay. The system -- and we talked about 12 it directly this morning in San Antonio -- is a total 13 turnkey system, and the first year costs, okay, are going to 14 be included totally in that bottom line price that you get. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, all we have first year is 16 the amortization of the debt. 17 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: The debt, whatever that 18 is. 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, there's some 20 amortization costs of whatever those certificates go for? 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But there's things like 22 car radios and all that aren't part of this system, and the 23 six new cars that -- that are in the budget, all that 24 equipment's already in the budget. There are no -- no costs 25 like that. Now, we will probably have some radio 76 1 maintenance problems. 2 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Sure. 3 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: But that's in another 4 line item under Maintenance, and that -- that's car radios 5 going out or something like that. 6 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, the real cost to 7 the budget -- to this next year's budget of the radio 8 project is only the amortization cost, which depends on when 9 the certificates are issued, obviously -- 10 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: And the total bottom 11 line dollar amount. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And what the total 13 bottom line is, and what the rate is, but that's not a huge 14 number in the first year. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: Probably somewhere in the 16 neighborhood of $140,000. 17 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: What is -- 18 MR. TOMLINSON: We have -- if y'all see the 19 summary page -- 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yep. 21 MR. TOMLINSON: -- I have -- I have $165,000 22 tax revenue for that. 23 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: How much? 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: 165. 25 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. Okay. 77 1 MR. TOMLINSON: And that -- that number I got 2 from Bob Henderson. 3 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So -- 4 MR. TOMLINSON: So he gave us an estimate 5 of -- of what the amortization would be on a million dollars 6 for seven years, and that's -- that's what the amortization 7 is on that. So, it probably will be less. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: So, there's no soft 9 spot -- what I'm trying to get at is, there's no soft spot, 10 there's nothing we can do to affect that first year cost, if 11 we do the program at all, so -- 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: But -- yes, but this is 13 based on a million dollars. If the system came in at 14 $500,000, which I doubt -- I wish it would, but I doubt it 15 would. 16 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: I wish it would, too. 17 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Then there's basically 18 $80,000 -- this would be average, so there's something 19 between zero and 80. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And we'll know -- 21 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Due to the R.F.P. and 22 the Government Code, we can't talk about what it is, but I 23 would -- I would -- after our visit this morning, I would be 24 -- I would feel very comfortable that the amortization he's 25 giving you would be a maximum. 78 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. So, we'll have 2 that number, say, a week from Friday, get it cranked into 3 the budget, and so that whatever the effect is, that we -- 4 okay. Whatever the effect is, is the effect. We cannot -- 5 if we're going to do the program, we can't affect that 6 number. 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Right. 8 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. One other 9 question -- it's a procedural question that I have -- is on 10 the certified values from KCAD. Do we get an update or 11 anything on that, or is the number that we have -- the 12 numbers that we have, is that it? 13 MS. RECTOR: That's it. Those are the 14 certified values. 15 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Before we -- 16 MS. RECTOR: Anything from here on out will 17 be what's under A.R.B. review, and any changes to the 18 roll -- 19 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 20 MS. RECTOR: -- will either take it up or 21 down. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. That's all my 23 questions. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: Linda? 25 MS. UECKER: I just noticed this, and I 79 1 understand why you did it. On my line item, which is 2 Employee Training, 216, that -- the year-to-date that I had 3 spent was $200, and I had requested $1,000, which is what 4 the original budget was. You reduced to it $500, probably 5 based on the fact that I hadn't used it. However, two of my 6 staff are going to a school this month for two nights, plus 7 the registration, which is probably going to take up the 8 rest of that. And, hopefully, because of the -- maybe 9 having the staff trained, I'll be sending one to A & M in 10 March of next year, so I'd like to ask that that be raised 11 back up to the $1,000, 'cause I think it's important that we 12 train our staff as we can. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay, so noted. 14 MR. TOMLINSON: Can I make one comment? In 15 the handout I gave you, there's a sheet in that that showed 16 the tax rates, and it will -- included in that is the tax 17 rate associated with that $165,000. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Okay. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Right. 20 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah, got it. 21 JUDGE HENNEKE: All right. 22 MS. NEMEC: Judge? 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes, Barbara? 24 MS. NEMEC: I'd like to pass out to each of 25 you the policy which y'all adopted on longevity, and there's 80 1 still some question on how that works by some of our 2 departments, so I was hoping that y'all could look at it and 3 clarify it for those who have questions about it, please. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I don't think that's 5 something we need to deal with now. 6 MS. NEMEC: Okay. As long as -- I mean, I've 7 taken that -- 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's clear in my mind, unless 9 I'm overridden, that this policy is not retroactive and 10 applies only to employees, not elected officials and not 11 department heads. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Can you explain to me 13 what you mean by "retroactive"? 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: There is a philosophy out 15 there that anybody who's been here more than three years is 16 entitled to a step increase because they've been here more 17 than three years. But, the clear intent of the policy, as I 18 recall from the discussions about it, was that the policy, 19 which started on the day it was enacted, which was 20 October 1st, Year 2000, went forward and did not go 21 backward. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Because we had 23 adjusted some -- 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's right. 25 COMMISSIONER LETZ: We adjusted salaries. 81 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Right. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, the three -- the first 3 time anyone would be eligible for a step increase as a 4 result of three-year service would be October 1st, 2003. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: My question is how 6 that's -- how we discussed it. 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: If that is not what was 8 understood, then we need to bring it back formally on the 9 agenda. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I agree. I agree. 11 MS. NEMEC: That is the way I understand, and 12 that is the way I'm doing the budget. I just had questions 13 about it on break, so -- 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: What's the -- what's our 16 timetable look like, Judge? 17 JUDGE HENNEKE: We only have -- we have 32 18 days to get a budget. Under the Government Code, I am 19 required -- for purposes of making sure that it's done 20 right, Section 111.006 of the Local Government Code says 21 that when I've completed the preparation of the budget, the 22 Judge shall file a copy of the proposed budget with the 23 County Clerk. 111.007(b) says the Commissioners Court shall 24 set the hearing on the -- the public hearing on the proposed 25 budget for a date after the 15th day of the month next 82 1 following the month in which the budget was prepared, so I 2 have to file the budget by Friday in order for us to take 3 action on it next month. So, what I'm going to do is I'm 4 going to file this budget that I have here today, which will 5 not be the final budget, but it is a budget and it is a 6 budget that -- that will be reported on, and it can be 7 reviewed and we will amend the budget as filed when we come 8 to adopt it. Is that correct, Tommy? 9 MR. TOMLINSON: Yes. 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: So everyone knows, I will be 11 filing today with the County Clerk this latest printout of 12 the budget, which is more recent than what you have, but it 13 does not include any of the changes that have been discussed 14 today. And that's so that we can have budget hearings 15 starting any day after the 15th day of next month, which 16 probably means we'll do it on the 16th, because then we have 17 to have -- when we approve the budget, then we have to set 18 the -- approve the tax rate, set public hearings, and 19 proceed. So, it's going to be a race at the end of the 20 month, but so everyone understands what's going on when they 21 see that a budget has been filed, this is the budget which 22 I'll file today. 23 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: And, technically, it's 24 a proposal. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: It is a proposal. 83 1 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Technically, this is 2 the first proposal. 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Not technically. 4 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: It's absolute. 5 JUDGE HENNEKE: It's a legal -- it says "file 6 the proposed budget." 7 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yes. 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: So it's not even technically 9 a proposal; it's legally a proposal. 10 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Everybody in the room 11 hear that? This is the first proposed budget we have had. 12 MS. NEMEC: Judge, I think when you do that, 13 I -- I'm supposed to give you a copy of the position 14 schedule so that you can file it with that. So that I know 15 that mine is right, I'm sorry, but I have a couple of 16 questions on what was asked here today, if it's okay for me 17 to ask those now? They're just -- they're real simple. Did 18 the Animal Control kennel worker go from an 8/1 to a 12/1? 19 Was that approved? 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 21 MS. NEMEC: So all those -- the District 22 Clerk's 17/5 to a 19/5? 23 MS. UECKER: No, 15/5 to 17/5. 24 MS. NEMEC: I'm sorry, 15/5 to 17/5. County 25 Agent's 17/6 to a 19/6, and Road and Bridge's Administrative 84 1 Assistant, 17/5 to a 19/5; were all those approved? 2 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Not yet, they haven't 3 been. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: That's what we're asking. 5 Are those acceptable to the Court? 6 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Oh, are they 7 acceptable now? 8 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yes. 9 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I'd say yes. 10 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'd say we have very 11 little choice in the matter, based on what we did the other 12 day. 13 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Yeah. 14 JUDGE HENNEKE: I believe the answer is yes. 15 MS. NEMEC: Thank you. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: Okay. 17 MS. RECTOR: Since we now have a proposed 18 budget that is going to be filed, can we not proceed with 19 the proposed tax rate and get the process going on the 20 proposed rate so that I can get started on my end as far as 21 our publications? 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, we're not close enough 23 to a bottom line yet to be able to say what the tax rate 24 will be, is my problem. 25 MS. RECTOR: Proposed. We have a proposed 85 1 budget. 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well, but I don't want -- I 3 don't want to put a proposed tax rate out there that -- I 4 mean, we have so much work yet to do on this budget that -- 5 unless -- 6 MS. RECTOR: Is it going to be something that 7 we will need to wait until after the 15th day it's on file 8 before we -- see, I'm going to be running out of time. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: I know. I understand your 10 dilemma, but my situation is, right now we're approximately 11 half a million dollars over -- expenditures over revenues, 12 okay? Commissioner Letz has made his statement -- his 13 position clear, and I think he speaks, really, for all of 14 us; we don't want to do a tax increase, which means we've 15 got to find a half a million dollars to cut out. I don't 16 want to put a tax rate out there that affects that half 17 million dollar shortfall for the taxpayer to chew on unless 18 that's what's we're going to end up with, so when we do a 19 proposed tax rate, I want it to be pretty close to what 20 we're going to do. And, you all may disagree with me -- 21 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I don't. 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I don't. 23 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- but I think it misleads 24 the taxpayers, and inflames those people who are looking for 25 ways to criticize what's being done here unnecessarily. 86 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Can you name some 2 names, please? 3 JUDGE HENNEKE: Well -- 4 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Nevermind. I'm 5 joking. 6 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, I'm very conscious of 7 your -- 8 MS. RECTOR: I know you are. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: -- dilemma, but I think we 10 need to hold off. 11 MS. RECTOR: Okay. 12 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, having put the issue on 13 the table, we're half a million dollars over. What do you 14 guys want to do? I mean, there is -- Commissioner Griffin 15 and I spoke at the break. There are no large-ticket items 16 which we could wave a magic wand and do away with and come 17 anywhere close to that. 18 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: We could zero some 19 things out and it wouldn't make any difference. 20 JUDGE HENNEKE: If we zeroed out the salary 21 increases and the COLA, we're still not there. 22 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: I still say the radar 23 unit needs to go. 24 JUDGE HENNEKE: So, I mean, I really -- I 25 really am not sure where to start. I mean, I can scrub it 87 1 down and come in with a balance, but salary increases and 2 COLA, Sheriff's deputies, scanners -- you know, I can start 3 down the list and stop when I get to half a million, but 4 it's going to be a fairly long list, and there's not going 5 to be much left except operating expenses and -- and the 6 Capital Outlay items that -- that have already been -- 7 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: Just a comment I'd like 8 to make. What I've seen of the budget over the last two 9 years and what I've seen the other officials do, I think 10 it's going to be hard to cut it down, because I think 11 everybody's fine-tuned their budget and cut out everything. 12 You can tell that at this point in this year, with the 13 budget amendments and having to transfer things, 'cause 14 everybody cut it so close that, even with these last two 15 months, we're having to make amendments. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: I couldn't argue with that. 17 I mean, you know, the performance by the elected officials 18 and department heads on the budget, I mean, since I've been 19 on here, has just been superb. You all have squeezed and 20 cut, evaluated, nixed, and I -- you know, it's like my old 21 drill sergeant when I was in the army. One time I came out, 22 having had my rifle pass for clean, and I said, "Look, Drill 23 Sergeant, my rifle's clean." He says, "You want to bet?" I 24 said, "No, you can't look at it." Well, if you want to make 25 me look at your budget and find something, I can, but that 88 1 would be an exercise that would simply be one that was 2 designed to accomplish a result, and not based on the 3 merits. I think these budgets are real, and I want to thank 4 all of you for the work you've done, because it's not easy 5 to have to look at what you actually do and make -- make 6 adjustments and make evaluations. So, I don't know -- I 7 really don't know where to go, guys. I mean, if you want me 8 to come up with a list of -- of cuts, and circulate it, that 9 will balance the budget, I mean, that's my job and I'll do 10 it, and then we can reconvene early next week and take a 11 look at that and see where we want to go. 12 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: I think that's a good 13 exercise. If we try to do that individually, that's really 14 chaotic, because I may not agree to all the cuts that 15 Commissioner Baldwin does. 16 JUDGE HENNEKE: And I'll circulate it to all 17 the department heads and elected officials, too. This is 18 not designed to be a "gotcha"; we don't do budgets by 19 gotcha. Previous courts may, but we don't. 20 SHERIFF HIERHOLZER: So -- 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: If I might just take a 22 second to also echo something you said, and that is that I 23 know how hard -- because I've worked with some of them in 24 developing their budgets -- how hard the elected officials 25 and department heads have worked to squeeze on their 89 1 budgets. And I also know how hard the five of us have 2 looked at those and how we've scrubbed -- tried to do our 3 best to do what's right, and at the same time come up with a 4 balanced budget, so I don't feel any remorse at the process. 5 I want to applaud the people who have been involved, and I 6 think it's a -- it's a tribute to them and to the efforts of 7 this Court, particularly Judge Henneke, who has to get the 8 budget out to us, and in the final analysis, the buck's 9 going to stop right here on this table. The five of us are 10 going to have to vote on a budget, and we're going to get 11 there. We -- we know we will. Somehow or other, we're 12 going to get there. And, I just think that the process is a 13 good one. We are open to the public. We hear everybody 14 that speaks, that wants to speak, and I have no -- 15 absolutely no compunction about saying well done, and let's 16 just keep at it. 17 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I have a question, 18 directed to you and to Tommy. I note with interest that 19 Kerrville Public Utilities Board has just done a refinance 20 of its outstanding debt and managed, through refinancing, to 21 cut its interest considerably. Is there any possibility 22 that we could consider the same thing with respect to the 23 tax anticipation notes for the annex and the jail, and 24 the -- and the contemplated debt we are thinking about for 25 the communications systems, rolling them into one at a 90 1 reduced interest rate? Is that a possibility? 2 JUDGE HENNEKE: I have had that discussion 3 with our financial adviser, Bob Henderson, and he has 4 informed me that there is no advantage to doing that; that 5 the rate on the jail bond is such that it really wouldn't 6 gain anything. Particularly, we've talked about the cost of 7 issuance. And, the tax anticipation note -- I've forgotten 8 why he told me that, but I raised that issue with him, and 9 he said that there's really no advantage to doing a 10 refinancing of those. 11 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Is there an advantage to 12 taking the new Certificate of Obligation and the tax 13 anticipation note and relooking at that as a -- I think it's 14 a relatively short-term thing, and redoing them for a new 15 seven-year -- both of them combined for seven years? Or 16 slightly extending it, you know, to -- I hate to go much 17 more than that, 'cause -- 18 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll ask the question. I 19 think the answer is that there's not a significant 20 advantage, but I'm happy to ask the question. Tommy? 21 MR. TOMLINSON: Well, you could -- the only 22 thing I can think of would be to -- on the new debt, since 23 the -- let me rephrase this. Since the old debt matures in 24 four years, you could pay interest only for -- for two or 25 three years on the new one, and then when the old one rolls 91 1 off, you can -- you bump the -- the principal payment of the 2 new one in line with what we already paid off in seven 3 years. You could do that. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm not -- I'm not sure how 5 much that saves us. Probably, it's somewhere in the 6 neighborhood of $50,000, $60,000 a year to do this, I would 7 guess. 8 MR. TOMLINSON: Yeah, it would -- it would -- 9 I didn't look at -- 10 JUDGE HENNEKE: Yeah. 11 MR. TOMLINSON: -- at the difference between 12 what the -- the principal and interest is on that $165,000. 13 I don't know -- I don't remember what's interest and what's 14 principal. But, you could -- that could help you. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'm happy to ask the 16 question. But, to answer your question, I have raised that 17 with regard to the jail bond with Mr. Henderson, and he 18 said -- after looking at it, he said there's no advantage to 19 doing it. 20 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Well, I'd like for 21 him to take a second look, if you don't mind, at just the 22 tax anticipation note and the anticipated note for the 23 Sheriff's communications system, and see if there's anything 24 there that -- that affects that. 25 JUDGE HENNEKE: I'll do that. 92 1 COMMISSIONER LETZ: My only comment is -- I 2 mean, I think this, especially today, has been a really good 3 exercise, and some years in the past, elected officials said 4 they didn't get a chance to come to court one last time 5 before the changes are made. And, I think they were all 6 given the opportunity today to do that, and, you know, I'm 7 very happy with the process, pretty much as the Judge has 8 put together this year. 9 JUDGE HENNEKE: Was it the consensus of the 10 Court that you would like me to prepare a -- a hit list, 11 so-to-speak, to come up with the -- 12 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: So that we can all 13 take a look at it? 14 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Yes. 15 JUDGE HENNEKE: I will do that. Let's -- one 16 day early next week, Tuesday, we have -- Tuesday is a bad 17 day, because -- 18 COMMISSIONER LETZ: Monday's a holiday. 19 JUDGE HENNEKE: Holiday. Probably next 20 Wednesday afternoon, we need to get back together and spend 21 some time in joyful fellowship. But, I will -- 22 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: You know, I think you 23 make a -- that's a good point. This is a team effort and 24 everybody can be involved in it, and we welcome that. And, 25 as many inputs as we can get. Once you get the -- a strong 93 1 list for us to all start working on, I think we need to hear 2 from everybody and get all the inputs, and by golly, we'll 3 get there. It is a team effort. 4 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? 5 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: We busy Wednesday 6 mornings? Why are we doing afternoons? 7 JUDGE HENNEKE: We can do Wednesday morning. 8 The afternoon was generally preferable. We could do it at 9 10 o'clock Wednesday morning. 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That way our 11 fellowship could turn into breaking bread together. 12 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I kind of like 13 afternoons. 14 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Huh? 15 COMMISSIONER LETZ: I kind of like the 16 afternoons. 17 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Okay. You're 18 outnumbered so far. Mornings are great, fresh and exciting. 19 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: I'm not sure about 20 that, but mornings are okay. 21 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Mornings are okay. 22 JUDGE HENNEKE: We could plan on 10 o'clock 23 next Wednesday morning, and sorry, Jonathan. 24 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about 9 o'clock or 25 9:30? That way we'll be sure to be done by noon. 94 1 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Is that German? I'm 2 going to tell you -- 3 COMMISSIONER LETZ: How about 9:00? Then 4 we'll be done in three hours. 5 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: The earlier, the 6 better. 7 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: That's right. Just 8 give me time to milk; you know I'll be in here. 9 COMMISSIONER WILLIAMS: Chickens? 10 COMMISSIONER BALDWIN: Yeah. 11 COMMISSIONER GRIFFIN: Milking those 12 chickens. 13 JUDGE HENNEKE: Anything else? Going once, 14 going twice, sold. Thank you all for your hard work. We'll 15 get there. 16 (Commissioners Court adjourned at 3:45 p.m.) 17 - - - - - - - - - - 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 95 1 STATE OF TEXAS | 2 COUNTY OF KERR | 3 The above and foregoing is a true and complete 4 transcription of my stenotype notes taken in my capacity as 5 County Clerk of the Commissioners Court of Kerr County, 6 Texas, at the time and place heretofore set forth. 7 DATED at Kerrville, Texas, this 7th day of September, 8 2001. 9 10 11 JANNETT PIEPER, Kerr County Clerk 12 BY: _________________________________ Kathy Banik, Deputy County Clerk 13 Certified Shorthand Reporter 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25